MAINE STATE LEGISLATURE
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LEGISLATIVE RECORD
OF THE
One Hundred and Fourth Legislature
OF THE
STATE OF MAINE
1969
KENNEBEC JOURNAL AUGUSTA, MAINE LEGISLATIVE RECORO-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 461
HOUSE as amended by Committee Amend ment "A" and House Amendment Wednesday, March 5, 1969 "B" in non-concurrence and sent The House met according to up for concurrence. adjournment and was called to order by the Speaker. Non-Concurrent Matter Prayer by the Rev. 1\'[r. Roger Bill "An Act Concerning the Smith of Augusta. Adoption of State Wards" (H. P. The journal of yesterday was 760) (L. D. 980) which was referred read and approved. to the Committee on Health and Institutional Services in the House Papers from the Senate on February 25. Bills and Resolve from the Game from the Senate referred Senate requiring reference were to the Committee on Judiciary in disposed of in concurrence. non-concurrence. In the House: The House voted Reports of Committees to recede and concur with the Ought to Pass Senate. Report of the Committee on Public utilities reporting "Ought to Petitions, Bills and Resolves pass" on Bill "An Act to Create Requiring Reference the Orono-Veazie Water District" The following Bills and Resolves (S. P 238) (L. D. 713) were received and, upon recom Came from the Senate with the mendation of the Committee on Report read and accepted and the Reference of Bills, were referred Bill passed to be engrossed. to the following Committees: In the House, the Report was Appropriations and Financial read and accepted in concurrence, Affairs the Bill read twice and tomorrow Bill "An Act Appropriating assigned. Funds to Defray Part of Cost of Radio Homing Beacon at Norridge Non-Concurrent Matter wock Airport" (H. P. 914) Bill "An Act relating to Winthrop (Presented by Mr. Corson of to Augusta Interlocal T run k Madison) Sewe,r" (H. P. 391) (L. D. 501) Bill "An Act Providing Bonds in which was passed to be engrossed the Amount of One Million Nine as amended by Committee Amend Hundred Thousand Dollars for a ment "A" and House Amendment Student Center at the University "A" in the House on February 26. of Maine at Portland" (H. P. 915) Came from the Senate with (Presented by same gentleman) House Amendment "A" indefinitely Bill "An Act Appropriating postponed and the Bill passed to Moneys to Provide for Night Pay be engrossed as amended by Differentials for State Employees" Committee Amendment "A" in (H. P. 916) (Presented by Mr. non-concurrence. Curran of Bangor) In the House: On motion of Mr. Bill "An Act to Provide Funds Rideout of Manchester, the House to Supplement Federal Grants for voted to recede. School Food Service Programs" On further motion of the same (H. P. 917) (Presented by Mr. gentleman, the House voted to re D'Alfonso of Portland) cede from adoption of House Billl "An Act Providing for a Amendment "A". On further mo Bond Issue in the Amount of Seven tion of the same gentleman, House Hundred and Fifty Tho usa n d Amendment "A" was indefinitely Dollars for Terminal and Parking postponed in concurrence. on Portland Waterfront for Casco Bay Islands" (H. P. 91 8 ) Thereupon, the same gentleman (Presented by Mr. Temple of offered House Amendment "B" Portland) and moved its adoption. Bill "An Act reI a tin g to House Amendment "B" (H..84) Allowance for Widows of Justices was read by the Clerk and adopted of the Supreme Judicial Court and and the Bill passed to be engrossed the Superior Court" (H. P. 919) 462 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969
(Presented by Mrs. White of Guil 926) (Presented by Mr. McTeague ford) of Brunswick) Labor 946) (Presented by Mr. Lewis of Bill •• An Act Broadening the Bristol) Scope of the Uniform ArbitI1ation Committee on Reference of Bills Act" tH. P. 937) (Presented b\Y -suggested that the Bill be referred Mr. Moreshead of Augusta) to the Committee on Taxation and (Ordered Printed) printing. Sent up for concurrence. The SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Legal Affairs Bristol, Mr. Lewis. B1ll "An Act relating to Munici Mr. LEWIS: Mr. Speaker. I pal Park and Conserviation Com wou1d move that this be referred missions" (H. P. 938) (Presented to the Committee on Agriculture, by Mrs. Coffey of Topsham) and would it be proper to speak Bill "An Act Reallocating Cer to my motion? tain Bond Issue Funds for Nor The SPEAKER: The gentleman ridgewock Airport" (H. P. 939) may proceed. (Presented by Mr. COI1son of Madi Mr. LEWIS: If this Ibill became son) law it would be administered by Bill "An Act relating to W,ater the Department of Weights and skiing on Certain Lakes" (H. P. Measures within the Department 940) (Presented by Mr. Martin of of Agriculture, ,and that is my Eagle Lake) only rea'son. Bill "An Act to Amend the Char Thereupon, referred to the Com ter of the City of Ellsworth" (H. mittee on Agriculture, ordered P.941) (Presented by Mr. McNally printed and sent up for con of Ellsworth) currence. (Ordered Printed) Sent up for concurrence. Orders The SPEAKER: The Chair public utilities recognizes the gentleman from Bill "An Act relating to Area of Old Orchard Beach, Mr. Danton. and Borrowing Power of the Mr. DANTON: Mr. Speaker and Corinna Water District" (H. P. Members of the House: I would 942) (Presented by Mrs. Cummings ask if the House is in possession of Newport) of H. P. 302, L. D. 378, Bill "An (Ordered Printed) Act Creating a Second Assistant Sent up for C'oncurrence. County Attorney for the County of York"? Retirements and Pensions The SPEAKER: The answer is Bill "An Act relating to Retire in the affirmative. ment of Chief Liquor Inspector" Mr. DANTON: I move that we (H. P. 943) (Presented by Mr. reconsider our ,action of yesterday Dennett of Kittery) whereby we accepted the "Ought House Reports of Committees Ought to Pass Leave to Withdraw Printed Bills Mr. Scott of Presque Isle from Mr. Ross from the Committee the Committee on Business Legis on Taxation reported "Ought to lation on Bill "An Act to Clarify pass" on Bill "An Act relating to the Genera~ Law Relating to Property Tax Exemption of Veter Formation of Corporations" (H. P. ans" tH. P. 108) (L. D. 116) 541) (L. D. 720) reported Leave Same gentleman from same to Withdraw. Committee reported same on Bill Mr. Curtis from the Committee "An Act to Amend the Real Estate on Claims reported same on Re Transfer Tax" tH. P. 580) (L. D. solve to Reimburse Arthur Holt 765) of North New Portland for Loss Reports were read and accepted, of Sheep Killed by Dogs tH. P. 265) the Bills read twice and tomorrow (L. D. 341) assigned. Reports were read and ,accepted and sent up for concurrence. OUght to Pass with Committee Amendment ought Not to Pass Mr. Cox from the Committee on Mr. Susi from the Committee Legal Affairs on Bill "An Act on 'Ilaxation reported "Ought not Regarding Unsealed Instruments" to pass" on Bill "An Act relating tH. P. 569) (L. D. 750) reported to Age of Neat Cattle Taxed as "Ought to pass" as amended by Personal Property" (H. P. 489) Committee Amendment "A" sub (L. D. 643) mitted therewith. Report w,as read and ,accepted Report was read and .accepted and sent up for concurrence. and the Bill read twice. Committee Amendment "A" (H-82) was read Ought to Pass in New Draft by the Clerk and adopted. ,and New Drafts Printed tomorrow assigned for third read Tabled and Assigned ing of the Bill. Mr. Kelley from the Committee on Inland Fisheries and Game on Divided Report Bill "An Act relating to Hunting Tabled and Assigned License for Certain Maine Resi Majority Report of the Com dents in Armed Forces" (H. P. mittee on Election Laws report 384) (L.D. 494) reported same in ing "Ought not to pass" on Bill a new draft (H. P. 947) (L. D. "An Act Repealing Certain Pro 1125) under title of "An Act re cedure for Registration of Voters" lating to Hunting and Fishing tH. P. 628) (L. D. 816) Licenses for Certain Maine Resi Report was signed by the fol dents in Armed Forces" and that lowing members: it "Ought to pass" Mr. LETOURNEAU of York Report was read. - of the Senate. (On motion of Mr. Carrier of Messrs. VINCENT of Portland Westbrook, tabled pending .accept MacPHAIL of Owls Head ance of the Report and speCially as Mrs. BOUDREAU of Portland signed for Wednesday, March 12.) Mrs. GIROUX of Waterville Mr. CARTER of Winslow Mr. Porter from the Committee - of the House. on Inland Fisheries and Game on Minority Report of same Com Bill "An Act relating to Closed mittee reporting "Ought to pass" Season on Wild Hares in Waldo on same Bill. County" tH. P. 518) (L. D. 689) reported same ina new draft (H. Report was signed by the fol P. 948) (L. D. 1126) under title of lowing members: "An Act relating to Closed Season Messrs. ANDERSON of Hancock on Wild Hares in the Counties of KATZ of Kennebec Hancock. Knox. Sagadahocand - of the Senate. Waldo"and that it "Ought to pass" Messrs. PORTER of Lincoln Report was read and accepted. HENLEY of Norway the New Draft read twice and - of the House. tomorrow assigned. Reports were read. LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 465 (On motion of Mr. Porter of purpose of the bill and to show you IJncoln. tabled pending acceptance the justice of passing it. of either Report and specially as The bill at this time is of pri signed for Wednesday, March 12l. mary benefit to one industry in Maine, although it would benefit Divided Report others to come, such as the alu Majority Report of the Commit minum plant which has been dis tee on Taxation reporting "Ought cussed recently. This industry, not to pass" on Bill "An Act relat IMC Chlor-Alkali is located in Or ing to Definition of Retail Sale un rington and is an important indus trial addition to my town. It em der Sales and Use Tax Law" (H. ploys fifty-five people with an ex P. 102) (L. D. 110) penditure contributed to the Maine Report was signed by the follow economy of about $2,700,000 ,an ing members: nually. It produces chlorine and Messrs. WYMAN of Washington causHc soda chemica1s important MARTIN of Piscataquis to many industries in large quan -of the Senate. tity, about 180 tank carloads a day. Messrs. ROSS of Bath The manufacturing process is SUSI of Pittsfield very simple in princip~e. Electri DRIGOTAS of Auburn city is passed through a solution of HARRIMAN of Hollis salt water breaking apart the ele ~of the House. ments of salt, sodium 'and chlorine Minority Report of same Com which are refined and combined mittee reporting "Ought to pas's" into the finished products. The on same Bill. use of electriCity in this way is Report was signed by the fol called electrolysis, the word used lowing members: in L. D. 110 to describe the process. Mr. HANSON of Kennebec Here is the distinction between -of the Senate. this use of electricity and other or Messrs. COTTRELL of Portland dinary uses ·of it. Electricity used FORTIER of Rumford for heat and to run motors and for Mrs. WHITE of Guilford lights in manufacturing represents, -of the House. in a way, the final use of the eiec Reports were read. tricity. This common use of elec The SPEAKER: The Chair rec tricity in connection with any man ognizes the gentlewoman from Or uf,acturing process is indirect at rington, Mvs. Baker. best. In an electrolytic process, Mrs. BAKER: Mr. Speaker, I on the other hand, the use of elec move the adoption of the Minority tricity is direct. The electricity Report "Ought to pass" and would is actually consumed directly in speak to my motion. the manufacturing process. The SPEAKER: The gentle Mr. Speaker and members, you woman from Orrington, Mrs. Baker may be awar~ of the fact that other moves the acceptance of the Mi things consumed directly in a nority "Ought to pass" Report. process for the manufacture .of per The gentlewoman may proceed. sonal property for later sale are Mrs. BAKER: Mr. Speaker and exempt from sales taxes. For Members of the House: I wish to example, I am told that in the speak in support of the Minority manufacture of paper, such things "Ought to pass" Report on L. D. as pulp, wood and chemicals, and 110. L. D. 110 is a bill designed even felts and lubricants, are not to exempt a certain, special lim taxable because they either become ited use of r lectricity from the ingredients of the paper or are sales tax. This is a difficult ,ses consumed or destroyed in the sion to ask for exemption from process of making the paper. any tax, but this is more in the Now, here is a product, electri nature of a clarification than an city, used and consumed jus,t as exemption. I feel strongly that directly in the manufacture of a this is a fair, just and necessary product for later sale as pulp, wood, bill, one which warrants the sup chemicals and lubricants are, yet port of this House. I shall try as it is subject to tax and those things, briefly as possible to explain the pulp, wood, chemicals, and so 466 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 forth, are not. That is why this state boat builders. This bill does bill, which would change that, is not ask for as much. It asks no fair. favored treatment, only equal This use which IMC makes of treatment. electricity, to' separate the elements Burt, we do not need to look for of salt from one another by elec any reasons beyond this bill itself ,trolysis, represents a new and to justify it. This is, a f,air bill. It dr,amatic use of electridty which merely treats this new Maine in was undoubtedly not anticipated dustry, based on this 'special use when the sales tax law was drafted of electricity, the same way that some years ago. all other Maine industry is treated. Again, L. D. 110 'Slays simply While there will be SO'me reduc that electricity used directly in this tion in revenue to the state, up manufacturing process - not, it to' $80,000, the bill would eliminate ,should be emphasized, electricity an injustice in the way this one used, even by IMC, for such things industry is treated. The bill is fair. as running motors, or lights, but The bill will benefit Maine industry only electricity directly used and in 'Sieveral important ways. separately metered in the electro Mr. Speaker, I do hope this lytic manufacturing proces,s should House will support the bill, ar.d be treated just like other major when the vote is taken, I ask for items of personal property are a division. treated which are Uis'ed directly in The SPEAKER: The Chair rec the making of personal property ognizes the gentleman from Hamp for later sale. den, Mr. Farnham. This bill means much to IMC Mr. FARNHAM: Mr. Speaker Chlor-Alkali in pa,rticular and in and Members of the House: I directly it means much to many a'rise to sUPPO'rt the gentlewoman other industries in Maine, especial from Orrington. I think I have a ly paper companies which d~re,ctly particular interest in this bill in benefit from the leSisened freight that the plant is directly across the they must pay for the chlorine ,and river :fil'o.m my residence. We have caustic soda they use in their proc people in this House or in this ess, whether or not they purchase body who. fear industry, fo.r fear these items from IMC, by the way. it will put some smoke into the This bill has brO'ad support from air or slightly pollute our waters. many sectionls' of the stalte. It has This happens to. be one of the very the sanction of Ernest Johnson, the clean industries and one that is State Tax Ass'essor, as an adminis paying unusually high wages fOT tratively feasible bill. It has the the State of Maine. active support of the Commi!ssioner I hold before me here a booklet of Economic Development, James put out by the DED, which they K. Keefe, whO' appeared before use in the hopes of attracting in the Taxation Committee to support dustry to the State or Maine. They the bill. He realiz,es tha,t tills is stress in this booklet 'that Maine an industry which, especially with has no corporate tax 0.1' personal the help of this bill, can make an property tax, and it goes, on in eve n greater contribution to the section dealing with the sales Maine's economy, possibly by and use tax to s'tate that the use serving a:s the nucleus for related tax does not apply to perso.nai satellite industries. This bill had property consumed in the manu no opponents at the hearing b'} fa,cture of other personal property fore the Taxation Committee. for sale. As so ably explained to There is precedent, too, for a you by the gentlewoman from Or sales tax exemption which pri rington, Mrs. Baker, ,the electricity marily benefits one company. In used in this plant in the proces's' of 1965 and 1967, the Legislature making the chemicals is co.nsumed. passed bms to exempt from sales It is rather a difficult thing to tax certain materials purchased imagine because after it has been for the construction and repair of consumed and becomes a part of ships, helping primarily Bath Iron the product, you no longer can Works in competition with out-of- identify it. LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 467 I would remind you that all of of mone,y that we can in taxation the wool that is imported into this but this seems to me it would be state to be used in the manufac treating this product like all the ture in our woolen mills is exempt other manufactured products that from the tax, all of the cotton we have, and I'm going to sup brought in to he used in our cot port the Minority Report. ton textile mills is exempt from The SPEAKER: The Chair rec this tax. The boot and shoe in ognizes the gentleman from Pitts dus,try is the largest employer in field, Mr. Susi. the state, pradically ninety-nine Mr. SUSI: I will speak in ex per cent of the leather rfuey use planation of the position of we on is imported into the state and is the Taxation Committee who exempt from this tax. signed the Majority "Ought not I do not think that we should to pass" Report. We on the T'ax measure this by the loss of rev ation Committee listen to exemp enue; we should keep in mind tion bills the majority of the time justice and justice only. Further and privately we refer to our com more, as stated by the gentlewom mittee ,as not the Taxation Com an from Orrington, at the hearing mittee but the Exemption Commit the DED actively supported this tee. This is a bill which would bill and in one of their most re exempt an industry from an exist cent publications in an editorial i~g ta.x applic'ation. All exemp had this to say and I quote: hon bIlls III my experience that "Needing strong support is pro have been presented to the Taxa posed legislation to exempt from tion Committee have varying de Maine's sales tax electricity sep grees of validity. I do not propose al1ately metered and consumed in to argue the comparative validity an,y electrolytic process for the of this particular bill against other manufacture of tangible personal bills that have been offered to us. property for later sale." Generally this is true that when This is an industry which if it we provide an exemption to an can keep on its feet and be suc existing tax application, there is cessful is one that is going to the same practical effect on the attract many satellite industries ~illlances of the State of Maine as that require skilled people, and lllcrea,sing appropriations. when you have an industry that We all are well aware of requires skills you have ,a high our financial situation in this ses wage industry. I certainly hope sion of Legislature, and for reas that when the vote is taken that ons that I have mentioned we did this House will see fit to accept sign in the Majority "O~ght not the Minority Report. to pas's." The SPEAKER: The Chair rec The SPEAKER: The Chair rec ognizes the gentleman from Port ognizes the gentlewoman from land, Mr. Cottrell. Guilford, Mrs. White. Mr. COTTRELL: Mr. Speaker Mrs. WHITE: Mr. Speaker as and Members of the House: I a signer of the minority report, I signed the Minority Report. I also support the motion of the didn't want to sign any report at gentlewoman from Orrington. I this time, and I tried to get the too feel that it is right that this Committee to hold up so that we particular use of electricity should could at least make a little start be exempt from sales tax. Thank and bring a little more logic to our you. honeycomed tax structure. It The SPEAKER: The Chair rec seems to me thi~ is a very logi ognizes the gentleman from Dur cal exemption. The boatloads of ham, Mr. Hunter. salt which they use in their elec Mr. HUNTER: Mr. Speaker and trolytic process are exempt. This Ladies and Gentlemen of the is a direct current electricity House: I like to be known as a which is totally consumed. We d~ fair and just man. I haven't got not charge a s'ales tax on the too many more virtues left. And printer who printed newspapers. this appears to me to bea fair and I wanted to hold this bill up sO just bill from what I've heard that we could go through the here. I'd like to get every penny whole list and see if we couldn't 468 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 get more income, but perhaps we the gentlewoman from Orrington, didn't have time, and so I had to Mrs. Baker that the House accept sign the Minority Report, and I'm the Minority "Ought to pass" Re gLad I did it. I hope that in your port on Bill "An Act rela ting to wisdom you give this very fair Definition of Retai[ Sale under consideration. Sales and Use Tax Law," House The SPEAKER: The Chair rec Paper 102, L. D. 110. A vote has ognizes the gentleman from Au been requested. All those in favor burn, Mr. Emery. of accepting the Minority Report Mr. EMERY: I'd like to ,address will vote yes; those 'Opposed will the House for a minute on this. vote no. The Chair opens the vote. I'm not going to speak for or A vote of the House was taken. against, but I would s,ay that a 115 having voted in the affirm a :Large aluminum comp,any has ap tive and 15 having voted in the plied for permission to come into negative, the moHon did prevail. Maine. I think we're familiar with Thereupon, the Bill was given the proposition that was p'roposed its two several readings and as at Trenton. I would like to remind signed for third reading tomorrow. the House that this company also would be using large amounts of Passed to Be Engrossed electricity. We may be opening Bill "An Act to Change the Name the door, by passing this bill, to of Butler Island, Kennebec County, great amounts of taxation that we to Paradise Island" (H. P. 80) many lose iIi the future. (L. D. 80) The SPEAKER: The Chair rec Was reported by the Committee ognizes the gentleman from Wa on Bills in the 'l1hird Reading, terville, Mr. Carey. read the third time, passed to be Mr. CAREY: Mr. Speaker, and engrossed and sent to the Senate. Ladies 'and Gentlemen lof the House: I attended that hearing, Third Reader and it seems strange that from Tabled and Assigned the testimony that was given that Bill "An Act relating to Leave the Majority Report should be one of Absence for Teachers ,and that say,s "Ought not to pass." Principals" m. P. 139) (L. D. 161) Now the gentleman from Pittsfield, Was reported by the Committee Mr. Susi, seems to indic'ate that on Bills in the Third Reading, while the tax is unfair, neverthe and read the third time. less it does produce revenue to (On motion of Mr. Henley of the state. I can't agree with this Norway, tabled pending passage to kind of re a's oning, and I would be engrossed and specially as certainly support the gentlewoman signed for Wednesday, March 12.) from Orrington, Mrs. Baker. The SPEAKER: The Chair Bill "An Act relating to Time recognizes the gentleman from of Sessions of Board of Coun Bangor, Mr. Soulas. ty Comm1ssioners of Washington Mr. SOULAS: Mr. Speaker and County" m. P. 361) (L. D. 469) iLadiesand Gentlemen 'Of the Bill "An Act Providing that House: I rise in support 'of the Revenues Received in Enforce gentle lady from Orrington, Mrs. ment of Elev,ator Law shall be Baker, for one major primary Credited to the General Fund" reason. As legislators I think we m. P. 388) (L. D. 498) shou~d be primarily concerned Bill "An Act relating to Financial with the econ'omic gl'owth of our Statement Forms J!or Use in De State, and this particular plant, termining Ability to Pay Support a manufacturing firm, ,c'annot at State Institutions" (H. P. 389) expand its facilities to a greater (L. D. 499) degree unless it can convert its raw material into finished product,s. Bill "An Act relating to Inspec And that's one reason why I feel tion of Motorcycles" (H. P. 419) that this tax deduction should be (L. D. 530), allowed. Bill "An Act relating to the The SPEAKER: Is the House Maintenance of a Public Building ready J!or the question? The pend in Rumford" (H. P. 450) (L. D. ing question is on the motion of 573) LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 469 Bill "An Act relating to Electilon Sunken Lakes in Washington and Duties of Ministers in Protes County (fl. P. 410) (L. D. 521) tant Episcopal Church in the Were reported by the Committee Diocese of Maine" (H. P. 476) on Bills in the Third Reading, Bill (L. D. 630) read the third time, Resolve read Bill "An Act relating to Con the second time, both passed to be veyance of Property to Bangor engrossed as amended by Com Recreatilon Center" (H. P. 477) mittee Amendment "A" and sent (L. D. 631) to the Senate. Bill "An Act relating to Tempor ary Loans !by Counties of Cumber Passed to Be Enacted land, Washington and Kennebec" An Act to Grant a New Charter (fl. P. 492) (L. D. 646) to the Town of Rumford (H. P. Bm "An Act re}ating to School 96) (L. D. 119) Construction Aid in School Ad Was reported by the Committee ministrative District No. 53" on Engrossed Bills as truly and (fl. P. 515) (L. D. 686) strictly engrossed, passed to be Bill "An Act relating to Action enacted, signed by the Speaker that may !be Taken at Schooll Ad and sent to the Senate. minIstrative District Budget MeE't ings" (fl. P. 547) (L. D. 726) Orders of the Day Bill "An Act Repealing Big The Chair laid before the House Squaw Mountain Game Preserve the first tabled and today assigned and Amending the Pisc,ataquisand matter: Somerset Game Preserve" (H. P. Bill "An Act to Clarify the Wa 553) (L. D. 734) tercraft Registration and Safety ,Were reported by the Committee Law" (fl. P. 118) (L. D. 134) on Bills in the Third Reading, read (Committee Amendment "A" the third time, passed to be en adopted H-44) grossed and sent to ,the Senate. Tabled-February 25, by Mr. Amended Bills Carter of Winslow. Bill "An Act Appropriating Pending-Passage to be en Moneys f'or Essential Needs at the grossed. University of Maine" (S. P. 77) On motion of the same gentle (L. D. 235) man, retabled pending passage to Was reported by the Committee be engrossed and specially as on Bills in the Third Reading, signed for tomorrow. read the third time, passed to be engrossed as amended by Com The Chair laid before the House mittee Amendment "A" and sent the ,second tabled and today as to the Senate. signed matter: HOUSE REPORT-Ought to pass Amended Third Reader in New Draft-Committee on Elec Tabled and Assigned tion Laws on Bill "An Act relating Bill "An Act Increasing Compen to Time of Filing Certificates of sation of Schooll Directors of Political Caucus Nominations" (H. School Administrative Districts" P. 278) (L. D. 354)-New Draft un (fl. P. 318) (L. D. 405) der title "An Act relating to Time Was reported by the Committee of Filing Political Nominations for on Bills in the Third Reading, Town Office" (fl. P. 846) (L. D. and read the third time. 989) (On motion of Mr. Fraser of Tabled-February 26, by Mr. Mexico, tabled pending passage to Henley of Norway. be engrossed and specially as Pending-Acceptance. signed for tomorI'ow.) On motion of the same gentle man, the Report was accepted, Bill "An Act relating to the the New Draft read twice and to Chairman of the State Apprentice morrow assigned for third reading. ship Council" (fl. P. 352) (L. D. 460) The Chair laid before the House Resolve Regulating Ice Fishing the third tabled and today as on Indian, Orange, Rocky and signed matter: 470 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 Bill "An Act relating to Mental of necessity, and I know that they Illness as a Ground fQr DivQrce" will not last very long. m. P. 471) (L. D. 625) It was just reported, yesterday Tabled~February 26, by Mr. I saw in the paper where Qne Meisner Qf Dover-Foxcroft. couple had been married just six Pending-Passage to be en weeks and they are now applyin,g grossed. (Later reconsidered) fQr a divorce. I cannot belabor The SPEAKER: The Chair rec this question very long, but to me Qgnizes the gentleman from Dover this isa serious business, getting Foxcroft, Mr. Meisner. married. My ceremony says that Mr. MEISNER: Mr. Speaker and marriage is an institution of God, Members of the House: I would it lies at the basis of human legis like to speak very briefly on this lation and civil government, the bill, I don't intend to make it ve,ry peace and the well being of the long, but perhaps I shouldn't speak nation and land, and I believe on it at all because I am very that. I am very much disturbed much disturbed and depressed be when I think of the conditions of cause of the decline in the serious our state even and especially of ness of our marriage laws and our nation, our young people are marriage vows that peQple take. disturbed, they are bewildered, and You can well imagine that I have as J. Edgar Hoover tells us the performed very many marriages great cause of much of this is in my life. I cannot hide my age the bre,aking up of the families. any more like some people can. Now I know I may not be speak I think it is fifty-three yearn ago ing exactly to the bill before me last fall since I performed my at this time, but it Is too easy to first marriage ceremony. I dO' get a divQrce nQw. This law Qf not know just exactly how many cruel and abusive treatment, in marriages I have performed, but CalifQrnia it is mental abuse, and I count up to' a thousand and I so many times I have read and leave it there, but over the years listened over the radio ,to CQurt I have consistently noticed the trials on divorce. It seems that decline in the seriousness of mar the applicatiQns contain IS'O many riage, and especially in the last trifling things. I think we have it few years. I am still conducting in our marriage vow that until marriages, twenty-five or thirty a death do us part. That doesn't year. I have had one each week seem to mean very much today. end since coming down here. Some I'm nQt saying that there should marriages are very good. It got not be divorces in SQme ,cases, but so that you can tell. I have one I do say that sacrifice, prayer ,and booked now that I know is going toil are the basis ofa home, and to be a lovely marriage. These divorces should not be granted just young people have been engaged because somebQdy has to' make a for some time. The young lady is !HUe sacrifice, and I am sure this a graduate from Husson College bill if it Is pa'S'sed would be abused, and so is the young man. and if only people, husbands and They already have their plans wives, would marry just for love, made and for four years they we wouldn't need any mQre divorce have kept company and had an laws. Thank YQU. engagement, but so many mar The SPEAKER: The pending rIages that come to me, it is a question is passage of this bill ,to problem whether I should perform be engroslsed. them or not, but I know they can The Ohair recognizes the gentle go down the street and get mar man from Augusta, Mr. Mores ried by the justice of the peace, head. he can do a good job, but I do not Mr. MORESHEAD: Mr. Speaker, think he can do the jQb that I I move the indefinite postponement can. because he hasn't had the of thIS bill and its accompanying training to do it, because I talk papers and I would like to' speak to these young people as best I on my motion. can. Some of them ,are frivQlous The SPEAKER: The gentleman marriages, a great many, too from Augusta, Mr. Moreshead, now many these days, are marriages moves that L. D. 625 be indefinitely LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 471 postponed. The gentleman may sis and even the so-called alcoh'Olic proceed. disease? I consider that pos,sibly Mr. MORESHEAD: Mr. Speaker, under those cricumstances 'Some a short while ago this House heard men or women might like to have arguments on this matter and voted it grounds for divorce, but never against indefinite postponement by theless mental illness as I see it, a very narrow margin. At that and I think a lQt of us see it that time, many arguments were put way, should have no preference forth both for and against the bill. over other illnesses that incapaci I would just briefly like to re tate. I know and many of us know iterate the arguments 'as to why of dedicated wives who have taken this bill should not pass. I feel care of their husbands who have that as an attorney that the divorce fallen with heart failure and they laws as they are presently set up can hardly lift a finger for year are too Easy, and I see people come after year after year. I know of into my 'office to get a divorce with three cases of a man that is hardly very little grounds, but legally they able to feed himself, and it's been are entitled to a divorce, and I way over seven years. Should that feel that our divorce laws are too man be cast adrift on the county liberal and that the passage of this or on the state? I feel that that particular legislation will liberalize woman is sacrificing, she is losing these laws even further. Our di the value of her 'spouse, and I vorce laws as they are today call know of two cases where a hus for a wrongdoing on the part of band, a dedicated husband, in one the defendant, and this would allow case a fairly young man, in fact a person to be - who is in an in h ~ was a schoolmate of my son, stitution let his spouse get a di his wife is completely helpless and vorce from him for no real wrong has been for almost eight years; doing on his part 'Other than the still he is very dedicated. Would fact that he suffers from mental we enact a law that would allow disease, and I feel also that the him to cast her ·adrift and ,send her argument that the s'?ven years to a hospital and jus,t forget about someone may be treated, this may it? It is those things that I feel be fine, but I feel this is a foot in responsible about to our con the door. Next, we will have a stituency when we pass a law here, measure to reduce this to five What are we opening the door to. years, three years, two years and I 'objected to this bill two years maybe just six months, so I fe~l ago; I shall certainly object to we must end this and end it right it again and again and again. I now irrespective of the numb2'r of feel that certain grounds for di years involved. And therefore, I vorce are very justifiable, when a ask you that you support my mo person is able to defend them tion to indefinitely postpone this selves, when they are ,able to deny bill and its accompanying papers. things or also to corroborate or The SPEAKER: The Chair rec when they are able to take care of ognizes the gentleman from Nor themselves. I realize that mental way, Mr. Henley. illness along with these other ill Mr. HENLEY: Mr. Speaker and nesses do create a problem for the Ladies and Gentlemen of the sponse many times, but that is one House: Being neither an attorney of the things that we face when we nor a clergyman, I cannot elo get married; through illness and quently speak along those emo through health, and mental illness tional lines, but I would like to is illness. I feel that our respon second Mr. Moreshead's motion for sibility perhaps is even greater the following reasons. than toward our spouse. So I This bill is supposed to consider strongly urge you to V'ote against grounds for divorce mental illness. the passage of this bill and to vote If we pass this bill, are we not for the indefinite postponement. establishing a precedent? What The SPEAKER: The Chair recog other incapacitating illnesses can nizes the gentleman from South follow? What about paralysis, west Harbor, Mr. Benson. which is incapacitating? What Mr. BENSON: Mr. Speaker and about heart failure, multiple sclero- Members of the HOUlse: It grieves 472 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 me to take issue with my go,od HDuse: I rise today with mixed friend frOom Dover-Foxc,roft, Mr. feelings IOn this bill. It had been Meisner, and it's very seldom that my intention to work and vote I do. However, in this instance, I against this measure. As a Calth feel tha,t I must. If we are to be DtiC, I cannot envisiDn divDcrce for concerned with the divorce bws, any reason. As a, prac1Jical man I I think we shlOuld be concerned find reaSDns flOcr separatiDn Df with those that a,re IOn the books many cDuples and tD put it bluntly, at the present time, much mDre there are some couples who are a cDncerned than we are with the burden .on each .other. issue in ques,tion here today. NDW as a representative Df all Df As I read the statutes, you can the people of my cDmmunity, I tQday get a divorce for adultery, must disregaru my personal be extreme crueLty, utter desertion liefs. Just as it is impractical for continued for three cDnse'cutive me to impose my political views years next priDr to the filing Qf the IOn all Df YDU here, SQ must it be cQmplaint, alQng with many others, true Df my religiQus! views. This and of CDurse the lOne that is most bill has been PQinted out as per often used is crueLty and abusive missive legislatiDn, and it is for treatment. It is used and I feei it this reason that I can faithfully is abused. I think that divDrces support it. Now while the prDvi are issued frivolDusly on this siQns of this bill would not be ground. I think tQday we are talk available to my family, I cannlOt ing abQut a ground fior divDrce rightly deny others their rights, Dr that is a reaiwnable approach tD a impose upDn them my rules Df divQrce. Mr. Meisner said he feels morality. I knQW that if my wife that marriage VDWS should be had several minDr chlld,ren, as she taken seriDusly, and I couldn't currently does, and she still would agree with him more. He feels have after the seven year period that the portion Df the marriage had passed which has been men cererrwny which states until death tioned, that we're I to be com do us part should be adhered to mitted, as is the feeling Df slOme much more than it is today, and of my colleagues here, I would I couldn't agcree with him mocre. hQpe that lSIhe CQuld have her re But I suggest to you that seven lease, bDth for herself and flOr the consecutive yeacrs in a mental in children. While in our case it is stitutton is a fDrm Qf, living death. impDssible, I know that she wDuld I feel that the wDrding of the bill, need the sure hand Df guidance and I will quote: "mental illness when we have these times of requiring confinement in a mental trDuble, viDlence and discrespect institution for at least seven CDn fDr authodty. I urge ail the mem secutive years next prior tD the bers Df ,this body to reflect seriDws initiatiDnof a div'orce cDmplaint." ly IOn the needs Df S'Dme Df lOur Seven yea,rs" ladies and gentle peDple. With the passage IOf this men, in a mental institutiQn, truly measure, the chDic,e lies with the must be considered a form of liv individual, but there is an avenue ing death, and I feel that we all'e IOpen, and while this could be re talking about a reasDnable cDmmon garded as a fDrm of des ertiDn , it sense approa,ch ,to, the s,evecrance must be remembered that at pres of the ma,rriage VQWS and ties ent when we cDmmit lOne tD an and I think: that we took a proper institutiDn, we are cDmmitting at step, a step in the right directiDn least one to a living hell Dutside. the other day when we voted to The SPEAKER: The Chair rec accept this bill, and I urge you Dgnizes .the gentleman from Houl one and all to vDte against the mo ton, Mr. Berman. tion tD indefinitely postpone. Thank Mr. BERMAN: Mr. Speaker and you. Members Df the House: The g'entie The SPEAKER: The Cha,ir rt'c man from Waterville has brought Dgnizes the gentleman from Water up the questiDn of burdens. Some ville, Mr. Carey. Df us thought aiblOut this matter Mr. CAREY: Mr. Speaker and very carefully and SDme of us Ladies and Gentlemen of this feel very strongly that a, And they climb the mountain's I think this morning that a crest; moment of truth has arrived in Theirs is the curse of the gypsy this House. For many many years blood, the ghosts 'Of legislative reform And they don't know how to have haunted these hallowed waHs. rest. Session after session we have had If they went straight they might bills introduced which would in go far; :stitute reforms in our legislative They are strong and brave 'and proce:ss. Now thi:s morning you true' have before Y'ou in this legi:sIative But they're 'a,lways tired 'of the diocument, the very key, the very things that are, foundation of any legislative re And they want the strange and form. To attempt ~egis~ative re new. form with a large House, the They say: 'Could I find my cost would be both e~orbitant and proper groove, prohibitive. With a smaller House, What ,a deep mark I would accomplishments in this field make!' could be made. So they chop and change, and Now, we have 151 members. I each fresh move would not ror one moment c'ast Is only a fresh mistake." any ,aspersion on the abilities or the I have often heard that politics integrity of a single member. I is the art of compromise. I too believe that we have a good agree with that 'and I am wiNing House; I too believe that perhaps to show my spirit of compromise. a smaller House could be a more Last Tuesday we had two amend efficient House. ments, one to cut the size of the This morning it is time iJor the House down to 32 iandanother to members of this House, the men increase it to 401. I would be very and women of this House, to happy to compromise somewhere examine the prdblem that lays be in the middle, shall we SHY 151, fore me. This takes an immense and I hope that this House will amount of courage. We will be agree with my magnanimous offer. frank, we will be honest. Are 55 The SPEAKER: The Chair membe'rs of this House willing to recognizes the gentleman fvom vote themselves out lof a job? This Kittery, Mr. Dennett. is a very very diff:cult proMem; Mr. DENNETT: Mr. Speaker it's a problem that we 'all must and Members of the House: I face. We must face it with courage arise this morning with somewhat and with sincerity if we are to of a feeling of fe'ar and trepidation. institute these legis.lative reforms You have heard the magnificient such as staff, such as legislative onslaught by the forces of the pay raises, many ma::ty things that enemy. I have no doubt but the perhaps would be ()f advantage. oration which you have just heard Again I remind you that we can will go down in the annals of this do it only with a smaller House House as one of the dassic if we have any regard :flo the costs examples of rhetoric. that wou~d be involved. I would ask you this morning to reject the Now I know that the gentleman motion to indefinitely postpone and from Bath worked long and far vote once again ror the bill I into the night on this magnificent believe it's to be passed to be 'en discourse. But I in my poor and grossed. Thank you. humble manner can only take a few remarks off the top of my The SPEAKER: '['he Chair head. I c'Ould not write a speech recognizes the gentleman from such as the one that you have Augusta, Mr. Lund. just heard, because as you all Mr. LUND: Mr. Speaker, Mem know that I have a great dea,l of bers of the Hou,ge: This ~s a diffi difficulty with words that contain cult league to run in, a:nd I don't more than two syllables. But propose to run against the speak nevertheless, I will attempt to give ers we've just heal'd. However, I you this morning the ,reas1ons ror think 'that with the yea,r of rhetoric the unanimous "Ought to pass" and perhaps a little frivolity here, Report of the Committee. thel'e is a danger that the House 478 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 might lose sight Df this· as a very the House downward, it means important measure, not simply be that there will be three Repre cause it deals with the House as sentatives out of Washington COUiIlr a unit, but becaus.e h represents, ty and one Senator. I believe, the first step and a first I now find it takes me twO' step that we must take if we are hDurs to' gO' from one end of my to crefocrm the legisIative process district to the other if I can and make it one that can pmperly avoid the state pDlice, which I carry out its functLon in this day haven't been able to do success and age. And without trying to fully. Now then, when you reach elaborate on this topic a great these people, you have diversions deal I simply would like to have ·of opinion all through your area. the members think a little bit I am finding this especially so about the changes that have taken during this legislative s6s,sion. TO' place in the State of Maine since further inculcate this thing into it became a state, the changes of a law would deprive these peop~e communications and the chang.es of true representation throughout in method of transportation, and the Washington County area. I to ask themselves, each one of you, would not try to digress into the whether these changes warrant the other parts of the state because consideration of compensating I am not familiar with their terri changes at the state level. tories, but I presume you mem. Time was when it took days bers here are. and literally weeks for news to I've heal'd pro and con on this, reach your constituents, and it but I think if thiJs' thing was to took days and literally weeks to be done we'd be downgrading reach the State House in order to the vote ·of the people of the state carry out the mandate. Here we of Maine, we'd be downgrading drive back and forth from literally their thinking, we'd be downgrad the farthermost parts of the state, ing their representation here in and the word goes out and comes the House and which I think back between ourselves and our they're entitled to as t he tax constituents in a very brief time. payers of the State of Maine. I And it seems bo me that with this think it deserves a 101: of thinking. Vaisrt chang.e in transportation and The SPEAKER: The Chair rec communication the necessity for ognizes the gentleman from Mada a House the size that we have wa~ka, Mr. Levesque. now is changing and that we ought Mr. LEVESQUE: Mr. Speaker, to face the need for change, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the we ought to take this first step House: I think probably this morn as a meaningful step in the direc ing you're w1tnelssing the begin tion of legis:ative reform. ning of not the ides Df March, The SPEAKER: The Chair rec but the winds of March. ognizes the gentleman from East I concur wholeheartedly with port, Mr. Mills.. the gentleman from Kittery, Mr. Mr. MILLS: Mr. Speaker, La Dennett, as to the feasibilities and dies and GeJ.tlemen of th·e HOUlse: possibilities of what is to happen I am somewhat amazed at what in the future. I also concur with I have been listening to here this the gentleman from Augusta, Mr. morn,ing. J wonder how many Lund, and it seems to me that people here realize that the terri at very best not too may moons tory I nov represent is bigger ago., as was ment10ned in this than the State of Rhode Island. House, that it's time for a change. It's 80 miles long and it's 44 miles I think it's high time focr a change. wide and it':8 only one segment As was indicated, infDrmation to of Washillgton County. the outlying areas in OUr state, I wond~r how many people have when the logistical number of 151 considerEd the geophysical layout was established, if you got it in of th·e Scate of Maine as reg'ards a week you were lucky. If you to counties and ddstricts. If this didn't get it in a week, you never is passed and becomes a law in got it. So the information that the state on reapportionment of was made available some years LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 479 ago in a week maybe got back representing ten thousand people to the Capitol in a month; and a instead of six thousand forty. We lot of it never got out and a lot have a Senate District that is 230 of it never came back. miles long served by a member The gentleman from Kittery, Mr. in the other house which is doing Dennett has pointed out, are we a very good job, and I don't be as member of this House, are we lieve our districts would be too to fea,r our own numbers? Or may big, and as a retired man I am be as the gentleman from Bath, willing to step out and give the Mr. Ross has pointed out, have younger man a chance to replace some of us run out of ammunition me, who would do much better in our own localities for fear that work than I am able to do. Thank we may not be reelected to this you. branch of the Lel5Ii'slature? Between The SPEAKER: The Chair rec the fears and the time for changes, ognizes the gentleman from Nor I fear that the membeI1s' of this way, Mr. Henley. House have an opportunity helre to better their lot as a legislative Mr. HENLEY: Mr. Speaker and group. If the fear of running out Members of the House: I promised of ammunition I am sure that my constituents that I would before the end of this session speak in favor of this bill. I won there will be enough ammuniltion der how many of us really feel for each and every community for that there is any particular magic you people to go back. in numbers. They tell Us that there's no magic in the age of 2'1 If the gentleman from Eastport, years. Why should there be ma Mr. Mills fears the state trooper, gic in certain numbers of repre there we might be able to in sentation? We have the State of stitute when this logistical num New Hampshire with 400 Repre ber of 151 was brought to our sentatives. A good many times just fold, we may be able to reinsti a little village over there has their tute the horse and buggy that own representative; that's wonder they might have had to go round ful. But I find in talking to peo his district fence. How much of p:e over there, the only people that particular area was able to that are satisfied are the con be covered, persons trying to go stituency. They don't have to, pay around the state police today, in a very much for their Representa fancy car? tives and it seems to work fine. So I ask the members of this rt's alright if we want to do it House this morning to look at the that way. But I did have an ac true picture, not as it is now quaintance, he's gone now, Who but of the possibilities of better came down into legislature in ing our own lots and the legisla 1912, an old gentleman and friend tive arm of our government. And of the family. He had to change if we can do this by trying to trains twice or three times to get bettering our laws, also provid here. It was an all day problem. ing the same information to our When he wanted to go around the people, I don't think that the num three towns that he represented ber of ten or twelve thousand popu with a horse and buggy, he'd stop lation is too much to ask an in overnight in one of the towns. dividual representative. Thank The reason that I will sup you. port this bill is that it doesn't The SPEAKER: The Chair rec seem understandable that if we ognizes the gentleman from Fort needed the same representation, Kent, Mr. Bourgoin. the same number of people 75 or Mr. BOURGOIN: Mr. Speaker 100 years ago in the horse and and Member of the House: Ais at buggy days, it seems to me that the time I went to school I never we do not need that number now. was on a debating team because Again though, numbers in them there was no debating team at that selves mean nothing. The State of time, but I would like to bring a California Representatives repre couple of notes to your atten sent 200,000 people in one Rep tion. The Representative would be resentative. I think that the 480 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 ,answer is to refo.rm government as people per Representative under we feel that it would be, as Mr. the 1960 census would vary from Dennett states, more adaptable to somewhere in the low 9,000's up reform, and then to apply OIther to close to 12,000, depending on measures to. adapt to it. what county you lived in. So there If SDme Df the areas of repre is quite 'a variatiton still. That is sentation require a tremendous another area that should be re amount Df tr·ansportaUon, I feel formed, but perhaps we shouldn't that there should be expense ac get into that now. I hope two thirds counts available to the members of us willJ. be in favor of this bill. Df this bDdy to. compens.ate. I have The SPEAKER: The Chair felt that fDr a IDng time. There recognizes the gentleman from are some Representatives that Bath, Mr. Ross. their area is very cDmpact, and Mr. ROSS: I don't normany they can contact their CDnstitu speak twice on a bill. But in re ency, perhaps all by phDne, Dr they buttal I would like to point out can visit 'any of them with a half such ,another move is in the making an hour's driving. There are other at the present time. Massachusetts members Df this bDdy, in Drder has 240 members in the House of to visit the various towns, have to Representatives, and there is a bill do hundreds Df miles Df driving, before their Legislature which and I feel that that's a matter Df wou~d cut this to 160. Of c'ourse, mDnetary reimbursement. I don't I wou'ld never attempt to compare think that that should really be a the worth 'of these two bodies since, as 'a native born State of criterion in the size Df this bDdy. Mainer, I am extremely prejudiced. So. I for one feel that it is time However, I would ,like to quote fDra change and a reductiDn in from the Boston Hel1ald Traveler. size Df state government. This paper openly admits it has The SPEAKER: The Chair rec devoted a good part of its journal ognizes the gentleman from King istic career to lambasting the man Township, Mr. Starbird. Massachusetts Legislature and in Mr. STARBIRD: I won't say too dividual legislators. However, ·they much because most of the argu continue: "The contention that 'a ments pro and con have already smaner House would produce been made. I was one Df those better and more efficient legisla doubtful ones that had to. be con tors s'ounds persuasive, but it vinced of this usefulness Df this won't! The reduction would 'only bill. And after studying it Dver, eliminate some superior legisla after spending some time stUdy tors. It would further 'accelerate ing the ramificatiDns of this bill, I the trend towards higher salaries, have finally come to the con more offices and more secl1etarial clusion that it is a good one. I'm help. In a few years it would Dnly one of these fellows like Mr. Clost the taxpayer more money." Mills that has an area close to the In conclusiO!l1 they state, "that size of the State Df Rhode Island cutting the House membership to represent. I ShDUld imagine would not make the legislature probably under this bill it might be any (better than it is today. How increased considerably. But I ever, it obviously would remove think if several of the other meas it further away from the people." ures that go alDng with this are Niow I don't want to copy any of enacted later on I don't think it the Massachusetts legislatiV'e proc would be too difficult to. cover such ess except perhaps, for the bene an area. fit of my gODd friend from Lewis I might in passing mention that ton, Mr. J,a,lbert, their very fine although 10,000 is a nice round Massachusetts or "office type" figure at the present time that baillot. Still, these remarks from each person would represent under a very ,critic,al press are as valid this bill, due to the formula for for Maine as they are for onr computing apportionment that is in sister state. the present Constitution and will The SPEAKER: The Chair D!ot be changed" onlly the number recognizes the gentleman from win be changed, the numJber of Rockland, Mr. Huber. LEGISLATIVE RECORD~HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 481 Mr. HUBER: Mr. Speaker and and incidentally Governor Sargent Members of the House: I ,attended 'at one time used this 'a'S an econ the public hearing, at which time omy measure, believe it or not, the State Government Committee in the pay raises that were dis heard this resolve; as ,a matter cussed for the Massachusetts of fact I have voluminous notes Legislature, and it turned out to and if my quota tions are incorrect be 'also one of the sixteen major I imagine that some member of reC'ommendations of the so-called the Oommittee can correct me. taxpayers voice, agailIl 'as an eCQlIl In discussion in reference to the omlY measure. Personally Ithis Maine House of Representatives I might effect some economy some do not recall ever hearing the time but I prefer to consider this words "unmanageable", "ungain measure would generate increased ly", "u n wi e I d I y", "uncontrol efficiency in state government. lable". There was no suggestion We find facts and figures on both that this Constitutional change sides lof the argument. In the past would bring us any closer to any four years fourteen states have body's average. As a matter of changed the size of their House; fact, I am sure that the sponsor ten have decreased the size and was trying to make the point that four have increased the size. this change could lead to improved Twenty-two state,s have houses quality and efficiency in state that have over 100 members and government. Almost everyone has the other twenty-seven are 100 or a right to his own opinion. I hap less. Alaska, which is a large state pen to think that 96 can be just size-wize, geographically has the as truly representative of the smallest number in its House, 40; people as 151. But that is not the Hawaii has 51; the State of Oregon point. has 60; ,and you have been told This change effective in 1973 several times that the largest one would force the Maine House to is New Hampshire, 400. take a close look at how we The number 96 is a ,three to one operate and hiopefully improve ratio with ,the present size of the what very truthfully is a good other body of this Legislature but system right now. The gentleman does not commit the 105th to any from Kittery pointed out some of specific reapportionment plan. The the obvious things that would re gentleman from Fort Kent men sult presumably from the change tioned that 151 means approxi in the size of the House, realistic mately a 6,000' population in the salary incre,ases, possibly a reduc L presentative districts in the tion in the number of committees, State of Maine. 96 would mean emplloyment of s,ome full-time help about 10,000. Just for the record either by committee or otherwise you ac,tually have at least one for research and drafting purposes. single representative district in the I think it has already been pointed State now with ,a population of al out that the Committee for Eco most 9,000. nomic Development in their policy statement on modernizing state Now remember this, this is the government makes a rather strong Constitutional amendment. It mus,t recommendation that the size of be approved finally by the citizens most legislatures should be dras of the State of Maine in referendum tically reduced and no more than vote. The next Legis},ature, the 100 members in larger 'states and 105t11, is not affected size-wise, but substantially fewer in smaller the 105th must reapportion the ones. In the Oouncil of State House regardless of what the Con Governments in its nationa,l com stitution says about the number of mittee this was one of their four members. If approved by the vot major recommendations last year, ers the first Legislature affected reduce the size of the House. would be the 106th which will meet I wish that the gentleman from on the first Wednesday of 1973. Bath had read all lof the Boston I urge you ,to vote ag'ainst the Herald editorials and their com pending motion and I would ask ments in the past week or two for a roll call. regarding Massachusetts and its The SPEAKER: Is the House reduction of the size of their House; ready for the question? The pend- 482 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 ing ques,tion is on the motion of Quimby, Rand, Rideout, Sahagian, the gentleman from Bath, Mr. Ross Sheltra, Snow, Starbird, Susi, that the Resolve be indefinitely Temple, Thompson, Trask, Vincent, postponed. A roll call has been Watson, Waxman, White. requested. For the Chair to order ABSENT - Allen, Bedard, Ber a roll call it must have the ex man, Brennan, Coffey, Faucher, pressed desire of one fifth of the Noyes, Rocheleau, Santoro, Wil members present and voting. All liams. those desiring ,a roll call will vote Yes, 86; No, 53; Absent, 10. yes and those opposed will vote no. The SPEAKER: The Chair will The Chair opens the vote. announC2 the vote. Eighty-six hav More than on9 fifth 'Of the mem ing voted in the affirmative and bers present having expressed a fifty-three in the negative, the mo desire for a roll call, a roll call Han does prevail. It will be sent was ordered. up for concurrence. The SPEAKER: The pending question is on the moUon of the The SPEAKER: The Chair rec gentleman from Bath, Mr. Ross ognizes the gentleman from Lewis that Resolve Proposing an Amend ton, Mr. Jalbert. ment to the Constitution Regulating Mr. JALBERT: Mr. Speaker, I the Size of the House of Repre rise on a point of parlIamentary sentatives, House P1aper 356, L. D. inquiry. 464, be jndefinitely postponed. All The SPEAKER: The gentleman of those in favor of indefinite post may pose his inquiry. ponement will vote yes; those op Mr. JALBERT: Mr. Speaker, if posed will vote no. The Chair one would have voted wrong on a opens the V'ote. roll call and the roll call is over, ROLL CALL it is my assumption that it's all YEA - Barnes, Benson, Binnette, over as far las he is concerned also, Birt, Boudreau, Brown, Buckley, is that correct? Burnham, Carey, Carrier, Casey, The SPEAKER: The Chair would Chick, Clark, C. H.; Clark, H. G.; advise the gentleman that ,after Cote, Cottrell, Crosby, Croteau, the vote has been announced there Cummings, Curran, Curtis, Dam, is no recourse, accept it as it is. Donaghy. Drigotas, Emery, Eustis, Mr. JALBERT: That wouldn't Evans, Finemore, Foster, Gaud stop anyone from moving to recon reau, Gauthier, Gilbert, Giroux, sider if he was On the prevailing Hall, Hanson, Hardy, Haskell, Haw side, would it? kens, Heselton, Hichens, Hunter, The SPEAKER: The Chair would Immonen, Jalbert, Jameson, Johns advise th'2 gentleman that anyone ton, Jutras, Kelleher, Kelley, R. voting 'on the prev,ailing side has P.; Keyte, Kilroy, Laberge, Lebel, the privilege of voting to recon Lee, Leibowitz, LePage, Lewis, sider or making that motion. Lincoln, MacPhail, Marquis, Mar The Chair recognizes the gentle staller, McNally, Meisner, Millett, man from Old Town, Mr. BinneUe. Mills, Moreshead, Morgan, Mosher, Mr. BINNETTE: Mr. Speaker, Nadeau, Norris, Page, P,ayson, M. regards the question that 'the gen W.; Porter, Pratt, Richardson, G. tleman from Lewiston- A.; Richardson, H. L.; Ros's, Scott The SPEAKER: Does ,the gentle C. F.; Scott, G. W.; Shaw, Soulas: man pose a parliamentary inquiry? S till i n g s, Tanguay, Tyndale Wheeler, Wight, Wood. ' Mr. BINNE.TTE: I do, sir. NA Y - Baker, Bernier, Bour The SPEAKER: The gentle goin, Bragdon, Bunker, Carter, man may state his inquiry. Chandler, Coroslon, Coult;ure, Cox, Mr. BINNETTE: Inquiry rela Orommett, Cushing, D'Alfonso, tive to rthe question that Wall> raised Danton, Dennett, Dudley, Durgin, relative to the reCOilisideration. Dyar, FarmJ:1am, Fecteau, Fortier, I now move that we reconsider A. J.; FortIer, M.; Fraser, Good our 'action on that bill and I hope Harriman, Henley, Hewes, Huber: you will all vote against me. Kelley, K. F.; Lawry, Levesque, The SPEAKER: The gentleman Lewin, Lund, Martin, McKinnon, from Old Town, Mr. Binnette, hav McTeague, Mit c hell, Ouellette, ing voted on the prevaHing side, LEGISLATIVE RECORD~HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 483 now moves reconsideration. J,g the (H. P. 4) (L. D. 4)~MINORITY House ready for the question? REPORT (4) - Ought to pass. The Chair recognizes the gentle Tabled - February 27, by Mr. man from Old Town, Mr. Binnette. Farnham of Hampden. Mr. BINNETTE: Mr. Speaker, Pending - Acceptance of Major I hope I am not misunderstood. I ity Report. don't mean on this last roll c,all, The SPEAKER: The Chair rec but I mean on the previous roll ognizes the gentleman from Hamp call which we had in regard to den, Mr. F'arnham. this divorce on ment'al illness. Mr. FARNHAM: Mr. Speaker The SPEAKER: The gentleman ,and Members of the House: I rise from Old Town, Mr. Binnette, ~ow in hopes of overturning the motion moves that the House reconsIder of Mr. Huber from Rockland that its action on item three, Bill "An we accept the Majority "Ought Act relating to Mental Illness asa not to pass" Report. Ground for Divorce," House Pa First, what is this bill? This is per 471, L. D. 625. The Chair as an amendment to the Maine Em sumes that the gentleman voted ployment Security Act which now on the prevailing side and he reads that the covered employer moves reconsideration. is one who employs four or more Whereupon, Mr. Benson of people for twenty or more weeks Southwest Harbor moved that the during the year. The amendment motion of Mr. Binnette of Old would reduce this coverage to Town to reconsider be tabled un employers of one or more. First, til tomorrow. let me give you a very brief his Mr. Starbird of Kingman Town tory of this legislation. This was ship asked for a vote. passed by Congress during the The SPEAKER: A vote has been period '35, '36, '37 about that requested on the motion to table. time when the Social Security AU those in favor of tabling the Act was passed, and the Federal reconsideration motion will vote legislation 'at that time excluded yes; those opposed will vote no. all employers of eight or less, or The Chair opens the vote. covered only those employers of A vote of the House was taken. eight or more. There were two 73 having voted in the ,affirma basic reasons for this leaving out tive and 61 having voted in the so many employers. First, the negative, the motion to table did administrative detail of trying to prevail. cover so many thousands of eme ployers, and se,condly, 'a feeling The Chair laid before the House that it would be some benefit to the fifth tabled 'and today assigned the small employer. A number of matter' states eventually reached the mag Bill '''An Act to Exempt Tele ic figure of four, and then in 1956 vision Sets and Music'al Instru the Congress itself reduced this ments from Property Taxation" coverage to £oour or more, and it (S. P. 45) (L. D. 148) (In Senate, thus became automatic that the passed to be engrossed) Maine law or the Maine Act had Tabled - February 27 by Mr. to be reduced to four or more. Richardson of Stonington. Since 1956 some twenty-four of Pending - Passage to be en the states have taken the next grossed. logical step and reduced co,veirage On motion of the same gentle to what the bill now before you man, passed to be engrossed .and calls for, one or more. Without sent to the Senate. doubt during the current sessions of the Legislature this winter in The Chair laid before the House other states more states will re the sixth tabled and today assigned duce the coverage to one or more matter: as we are now trying to do here HOUSE MAJORITY REPORT in Maine. I say the present law is (6) - Ought not to pass - Com discrimina,tory for both employers mittee on Labor on Bill "An Act and employees. It discriminates relating to Definition of Emp~oyer among employers for the simple under Employment Security Law" reason that the employer who has 484 LEGISLATIVE RJECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 four people has to' pay an addi YO'U WO'uld have to' have him O'n tional tax ea,ch year of about $96.00 the p'ayrO'li for twenty weeks. Fur on each of his employees. The thermDre, this man is generally employer with three or less than cDnsidered a self-employed, and fQIUT doels not face this tax. He you are nDt an emplDyer. ma,y be, ,the empwyer with less I haven't any dDubt that most than fO'ur may be a far more S'l.lJC Df YDU have received letters frDm cessful emplDyer and may operate small emplO'yers urging yQU to a far mO're prDfitable business. vDte aga,inst this bill. I have re It also. discriminates severely ceived those letters, and I wDuld againsit emplDyees in that the em remind this House that the Dental ployee who is laid off or whose ASSDciation has cDntacted all the employer gDes out Df business can dentists, the Medical ASlsociatiDn not Dbtain unemplDyment CDm has cDntacted all the doctors, the pensatiO'n when he dDes no. lDnger Small Retailer's AssO'ciation has have a jDb. It also ddscriminates alerted all the small retailers, against the emplDyee whO' worked and there are countless associa far both cO'vered employers and tions that have been able to alert nDn-CO'Vered emplDyerS during his the small emplDyer as to' what benefit year, in that when he does this might CDSt him, and has urged have to' file for unemplDyment him to' write YDU in opposition to cDmpensatiDn, the amount he re this bill. ceives is greatly lowered because Ladies and gentlemen, I think the wages he earned with a non we represent all the people, and cDvered emplDyer are nDt inc'luded I think we should specifically try in his benefit amount. to represent those small people One Df the prDblems that early whO' dO' not have any trade associa faced the administratiDn Df this tiDn to' back them up and alert program was the recDrd keeping. them as to' this bill. I dO'n't think TO'day with ,computers alml all the YO'U shDuld fear losing the vQtes automatic machinery we have, Qf a few small businessmen be this is no problem at all and will cause YDU must remember that not add but very, very little addi these small businessmen have two. tiDnal cost to' the administration Qr three employees, and those em of the ptl"Dgram. FurthermDre, 1 ployees alsO' VQte. wDuld remind you that this addi I want you to' understand clearly tiDnal cost dO'es' nDt cO'me out O'f that I wDuld be the last person any state funds, there will be nO' in this HO'use to' stand up and want bills in the AppropriatiDns CDm to dO' anything that would hurt an mittee because this program, the emplDyer. What this state needs CDst Df administering it CDmeS is more employers, and I give all strictly frDm federal funds which the credit in the WO'rld to' the are cO'ntributed by Maine em fellow who has the intestinal fDrti plO'yers. tude, the courage and the brains I WO'uld alsO' remind the House to. pa,ss frO'm the emplO'yee bracket that thO' ugh this bill wDuld reduce into the emplDyer bracket. You cO'verage to Qne O'r mQre, there might say, well what will this CDst? are still many, many cases where For each employee fQr the first peQple would not be cO'vered Dr be three years that he is cDvered, the entitled to the benefits O'f the Un maximum cost per year is $93.00 emplDyment Compeus,ati:O'n Law. per year. In other wDrds, if he This would nDt include the dDmes emplDyed three people his maxi tic that wO'rks in your home b~ mum CQst fDr the year would be cause domestics are specifically $270.00. If he only emplDyed Qne, excluded. This WQuld nQt include it is $93.00. Furthermore, he wDuld the QCCaSiDnal farm hand Dr farm nDt have any tax to' pay p,riQr to' hands YDU hire because agricul April 1970, and I think this gives tural labor is exempt. I have been any reasDnable businessman plenty tDld that this WO'uld include the O'f leeway and time in which to painter who. comes to paint yO'ur prepare fDr this cost. FurthermDre, hDuse. Well, if it does, you must if he is an emplO'yer whO' has nO' have an awful big house, because turnovetl", nO' laYDffs, he is subject LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 485 to merit rating at the end of three The SPEAKER: The Chair would yea'rs and h1s cost per employee advise the gentleman that we have could be reduced to $27.00 a yea,~. reconsidered, and the motion be Ladies and Gentlemen of this fore the House is the motion of House I hope that when the vote the gentleman from Rockland, Mr. is tak~n on the motion of the gen Huber, to accept the Majority tleman from Rockland, Mr. Huber, "Ought not to pass" Report. that the "Ought not to pas1sl" Re Mr. FINE MORE : Thank you. port be accepted, that you will vote Mr. Speaker and Members of the no and then vote for the passage House: I would dislike very much of this bill or the acceptance of to go back to my constituents in the MiinorHy Report. Aroostook County, the Garden of The SPEAKER: The Chair rec Maine, and tell them that I voted ognizes the gentleman from Orono, in favor of this bill or didn't speak Mr. Chandler. against it, because today this bill would be a hardship against all Mr. CHANDLER: Mr. Speaker, small grocery stores, hardware, Ladies and Gentlemen of the clothing stores and filling stations. House: It is my understanding A lot of these places are almost that opponents of this bill do op out of business now due to the pose it on the grounds that there fact of the chain stores and they are other inequities in the Em are struggling very hard to stay ployment Security Law which along, usually working some mem should be taken care of. I think, ber of the family which I know however, thils is no reruson Ito de they won't have to pay unem feat this measure. Therefore, I ployment on, but they may have support the gentleman from Hamp one or two employees helping den, Mr. F'arnham. them, and still staying under the Speaking for just a moment; I Act. realize the hour is late, but I am Today also your truckers in the an employer that two years ago State of Maine, who have one crossed this level of four em striker, on pulp trucks especially, ployees. It is a hard decision to would be burdened with one, they make facing another $300 a year would have that much more book charge in a business perhaps al keeping to do. I might speak on ready overburdened by expense. my own behalf on that. I have but nevel'theless, it is fair, very quite a few small operators in the fair for the working man to let woods who have bought skidders him know that he is supported in and through these months right this particular measure. It is of now I am helping keep the pay course inequitable from the stand ments up due to the fact that point of large seasonal industries {here is so much snow, 'and these who perhaps do not pay a fair special operators are out from share, and I think this is an area under this for the simple reason that we need to look at very close ,they have .one or two, they never ly, but nevertheless it is certainly go over three employees, and it unfair to the small employer would be a great hardship on ,crossing tMs line, looks at his them. competition in some other area And speaking against Mr. Farn who is not facing up to his re ham, I dislike this very much be spons1ihility. A~ain, let Us accept cause he works for the same com the Minority "Ought to pass" Re pruny I do, with the exceptioIIJ he port. Thank you. is with the Personnel Department The SPEAKER: The Chair rec or has been over a period of ognizes the gentleman from years, and I have been on the Bridgewater, Mr. Finemore. Production and Purchasing end. I Mr. FINE MORE : Mr. Speaker believe I am much more familiar and Members of the House: First with the small operators in these I would like to ask a question. At different counties than he, he be the present time, ilt isn't the mo ing on personnel, because he tion of Mr. Huber that is before doesn't visit the small operators, us is it? all he visits is the personnel within 486 LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 the Great Northern organization would put the reserve fund in such who are already covered by this a situation that ,there would be al legislation, but I do again. I hope most no possibility 'Of my rate ever when you vote on this you will changing. Larger employers WhD vote in favor of the motion of Mr. have a high rate of unemployment Huber to accept the "Ought not for seasonal or other factors would to pass" Report. of course be in a much more favor The SPEAKER: The Chair rec able positiQn in relation to their ognizes the gentleman from Rock rates if these large numbern of land, Mr. Huber. small employers who are not Mr. HUBER: Mr. Speaker, in characterized by high rat·:s of un defense of the Labor Committee's employment were bracketed into six to four "Ought not to pass" the system. Report, it should be pointed out S'O in spite of the fact that it is that we felt that this was not against my own self interes,t as a necessary. The Representative covered employer, I do not feel from Hampden, Representative that it is wise or fair to bracket Farnham has pointed out that the in the small employers throughout Federal law which calls for four the state. or more individuals has not The SPEAKEH: The Chair rec changed since 1956, does not seem ognizes the gentleman fI"Dm Hamp likely to. It was felt that this den, Mr. Farnham. proposed change involves a seg Mr. FARNHAM: Mr. Speaker, ment of the business community I'll make this short. We have heard rthat is traditionally low in the rate tWD conflicting arguments. One, of unemplQyment, is ,a Istable em that there is no unemployment plQyer, and consideration was among these people because the given to the fact that personal and employ:rs are very stable. Sec financial burdens on the small 'ond, that because there is so much employer seemed t'O outweigh the unemplDyment among these people, possible advantages. that it would greatly reduce the fund balance in the employment The SPEAKER: The Chair rec security fund which now stands at ognizes the gentleman from Houl some $43,000,000. ton. Mr. Haskell. Now I don't know which is right, Mr. HASKELL: Mr. Speaker, I but I have the feeling that the un rise to support Representative employment in this group will fol Huber. Another factor which low the pattern that prevails in played a large part in our delibera the rest of industry. The second Hons was the effect of the passage argument I've heard is that it in of this legislatiQn on the rates that volves the small employer in a WQuld be paid under this Act. This great deal of recoI"d keeping. I isa complicated section of the would remind you that under the law, but as has ,already been SOCial Security Aot, every, em pointed 'Out, the immediate effect ployer 'Of one or more must file of the law would be that the quarterly reports reporting the thousands 'Of small employers in wages and paying the tax, and ,all the state would be immediately that this unemployment compensa faced with paying the maximum tion repQrt is is a 'One page docu rate 'Of 2.7 fDr a three year period. ment which is almost identically I also am a covered employer a copy of th" Social Security re now under the Unemployment In POI"t, so any employer who is ca SUI"anCe Act, and because of the pable of making out a social secu operation 'Of the computation of rity repQrt and he must be or he is the rates, it wou}d be to my ad in violatioln of Federal law, certain v,antag,e as a ,covered employer to ly is capable of completing thils un see this act extended because it employment compensation repoI"t. would insure the continuation of The SPEAKER: The Chair rec my present favorable rate which ognizes the gentleman from Ray is .05, the very minimum rate that mond, Mr. Durgin. is enjoyed by ,any employer. The Mr. DURGIN: Mr. Speaker, I bracketing in of thousands of Ismall would like to straighten out a mis employeI"S throughout ,the state interpretation. I think that what LEGISLATIVE RECORD-HOUSE, MARCH 5, 1969 487 was trying tD be told you people The same gentleman offered is that the fund wDuJd increase un House Arne n d men t "AU and der this bill by I think sDmewhere moved its adoptiDn. around $660,000 which wDuld tend HDuse Amendment "A" (H-83) to imply that the unemployment was read by the Clerk and adopt rate in these small emplDyees ed, the Bill passed tD be engrossed would be lower instead of high2r. as amended by House Amendment The SPEAKER: Is the HDuse "A" in nDn-CDncurrence and sent ready for the question? The pend up for concurrence. ing question is the acceptance 'Of the MajDrity "Ought nDt to pass" The Chair laid before the HOlllse RepDrt 'On Bill "An Act relating tD the ninth tabled and today assigned Definition 'Of EmplDyer under Em matter: ployment Security Law" H. P. 4, Bill "An Act relating to Ballots L. D. 4. If you are in favDr of CalSt by Presidential Electors" (S. this, you win vote yes, if you are P. 99) (L. D. 309) (In Senate, opposed, you will vDte no. The passed to be engrDssed) Chair opens the vote. Tabled - February 27, by Mr. A vote of the House was taken. Starbird of Kingman Township. 67 having voted in th~ affirma Pending - Pass1age to be en tive and 47 having voted in the grossed. negative, the motiDn did prevail. On motiDn 'Of Mr. RideDut 'Of Sent up for concurrence. Manchester, retabled pending pas sage tD be engrDssed and tDmor The Chair laid befDre the House row assigned. the seventh tabled and today as signed matter: The Chair laid befDre the House Bill "An Act relating tD the the tenth ta b 1 e dand tDday BorrDwing Power 'Of Maine Mari assigned matter: time Academy" (H. P. 484) (L. D. REPORT "A" (5) - Ought tD 638) pasls,.-Committee on State Govern. Tabled - February 27, by Mr. ment 'On Bill "An Act reIating to Cox of BangDr. Membershlp 'Of Board of Trustees Pending - Pass'age to be en fDr Accident and Health Insurance grossed. PrDgra,m for State Employee1s" Thereupon, the Bin was passed (S. p. 115) (L. D. 324)-REPORT to be engrossed and sent to the "B" (5)-Ought nDt tD pass. (In Senate. Senate, Report A accepted and Bill passed to be engrossed) The Chair laid before the House Tabled-March 4, by Mr. Den the eighth tabled and tDday as nett of Kittery. signed matter: Pending-Acceptance 0If either An Act Requiring Reconstructed Report. Public Building,s be Made Acces sible to the Physically Handicap On motion 'Of Mr. Dennett of Kit ped (S. P. 100) (L. D. 310) tery, Report "B" "Ought not to Tlabled - February 27, by Mr. pass" was accepted in non-concur Birt of East Millinocket. rence and sent up fDr CDncurrence. Pending - Passage to be en acted. (Off Record Remarks) On motion of Mr. McNally of Ellsworth, under suspensiDn of the rules, the House recDnsidered its On motiDn of Mr. Corson 'Of Mad action 'Of February 12 whereby iSDn, the Bill was passed 1,'0 be en Adjourned until one-thirty o'cIo,ck grDssed. tomorrow afternDon.