Vol. 175 Wednesday, No. 14 25 February 2004 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES SEANAD E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Wednesday, 25 February 2004. Business of Seanad ………………………………1085 Order of Business …………………………………1085 Industrial Relations (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2003 [Da´il]: Second Stage …………1097 Competition Authority Report: Statements ………………………1124 Dormant Accounts: Motion ……………………………1161 Message from Da´il………………………………1201 Civil Registration Bill 2003: Motion for Earlier Signature …………………1201 European Parliament Elections (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages ……………………………1203 Motion for Earlier Signature……………………………1214 Adjournment Matter: School Transport ………………………………1214 1085 1086 SEANAD E´ IREANN when we get the message that the Da´il has passed the Bill and the other relating to the European ———— Parliament Elections (Amendment) Bill when all Stages of that Bill have been passed. I am not De´ Ce´adaoin, 25 Feabhra 2004. dismissing the debates that will take place today Wednesday, 25 February 2004. but I am explaining that when the debates have concluded, that is what we will do. A ———— supplementary Order Paper will be circulated later. Chuaigh an Cathaoirleach i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m. Mr. B. Hayes: Given the Government’s ———— decision to push ahead with legislation to bring about electronic voting for the June elections Paidir. without the consensus of all parties, when will the Prayer. legislation be before the House? When that legislation comes to the House, I intend to use ———— Article 27 of the Constitution to ask a majority of Members in the House and at least a third of Business of Seanad. the Members in the other House to petition the President not to sign this Bill and to put it to the An Cathaoirleach: I have received notice from people by way of referendum. Senator Brennan that, on the motion for the As the Leader well knows, Article 27 has never Adjournment of the House today, he proposes to been used since the founding fathers of our State raise the following matter: enacted the Constitution. However, I believe that The need for the Minister for Education and the use of this article is appropriate because it Science to clarify access to school transport refers specifically to issues of fundamental arrangements currently in place for students national importance. We should ask the President from Limerick city catchment area who wish to not to sign the legislation if the Government attend Salesian College, Pallaskenry, County intends ramming it through the Houses of the Limerick. Oireachtas and to have a referendum to allow the people to decide whether they want electronic I regard the matter raised by the Senator as voting. The people should have the final say, not suitable for discussion on the Adjournment and some arbitrary Minister back on a kick from the it will be taken at the conclusion of business. Far East. Will the Progressive Democrat Members of the Order of Business. House please contact their former friend, the Ms O’Rourke: The Order of Business is No. Minister, Deputy Cullen, and ask him to stop this 1, Industrial Relations (Miscellaneous Provisions) collision course that he has decided to embark Bill 2003 — Second Stage, to be taken at the upon with other Members and parties in the conclusion of the Order of Business and to House? The Progressive Democrats are the key conclude not later than 1.30 p.m., with the here because before the last election they told us contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 they would keep an eye on Fianna Fa´il when this minutes, those of other Senators not to exceed kind of issue came up. ten minutes, Members may share time and the Minister to be called upon to reply not later than Dr. Mansergh: Come on. ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage; No. 2, statements on the Competition Mr. B. Hayes: Where are they now? Many Authority’s report on the insurance market, to be elements of the Fianna Fa´il Party have a difficulty taken at 2.30 p.m. and to conclude not later than with the concept of a paper trail, but it is vital 5 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons that a paper trail exists, that votes can be verified not to exceed 15 minutes, those of other Senators and that people have confidence in the process. not to exceed ten minutes, Members may share The Minister, Deputy Cullen, is not imbuing the time and the Minister to be called upon to reply system with confidence. I understand that the not later than ten minutes before the conclusion Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, gave of the statements; No. 3, European Parliament further ammunition to those people who are Elections (Amendment) Bill 2003 — Report and opposed to this measure last night on RTE radio Final Stages, to be taken at the conclusion of No. because of his performance. Yesterday the 18 and to conclude not later than 8.15 p.m.; and Taoiseach showed himself to be at sixes and No. 18, motion No. 22, to be taken from 5 p.m. sevens on this issue. We need clarity and to 7 p.m. There will be a sos from 1.30 p.m. to independent commentary which currently—— 2.30 p.m. There will be two earlier signature motions Dr. Mansergh: We need a bit of objectivity today, one relating to the Civil Registration Bill from the Opposition. 1087 Order of 25 February 2004. Business 1088 Mr. Glynn: It is as easy as one, two, three. Dr. Mansergh: It is public voting, not a secret ballot. Mr. B. Hayes: ——does not happen, which is why I will put Article 27 of the Constitution to Mr. Ryan: We do not trust it when we have a the House when this matter comes before it. public vote. While we vote in public we still want a paper record verified by four Members, yet we Mr. O’Toole: The issue is clearly beginning to are telling the electorate that this will not be gather moss among the general population. available to it. Why are we so different from the People are very upset and concerned about what electorate? is going on. From the outset I was actively in Representatives of the OECD recently visited favour of electronic voting for two reasons; one this country as part of a review of higher reason was speed and the other was accuracy. It education. Many bodies, including the Higher was suggested that, for the first time, we would Education Authority, the Department of have true proportional representation. It now Education and Science, directors of institutes of appears that we cannot have true proportional technology, and presidents of university made representation. For me, this was the biggest submissions to the OECD. Yet again, the voice of reason for being in favour of the electronic the Houses of the Oireachtas has not been heard. system. Members have a variety of views and experience I ask that the Leader convey to the of higher education. I seek a debate on the future Government the embarrassment people felt while of higher education in the short term. Having listening to the Minister of State talking about completed the debate, we should send a transcript this issue on RTE radio last night. This was to the OECD to represent the views of Members picked up on by “Morning Ireland” today. One on the issue. would not hear the like in a pantomime; the A considerable amount of extraordinary and Minister of State argued that these were voting self-serving nonsense is being fed to the OECD. machines and not computers and was not able to The submission of the HEA is about how answer simple questions on the issue. This is the important it is that the body be maintained. The wrong way to go about giving trust and submission of the Department of Education and confidence to the population. A serious problem Science is about how important it is to stop it is arising here and it is a pity it is dividing parties from increasing funding for third level education. along Government and non-Government lines. The political process ought to be involved in this. Each Member of the House should have a view I call on the Leader to provide a debate on higher on this. I speak as one disinterested in party education in the immediate future. politics. However, we should worry about this We should have a debate on democracy on this issue. Can someone indicate to me why this island as a matter of urgency. We are getting into system cannot provide true PR? murky waters when in one guise people can Cork, the capital city of Munster, has offered celebrate the achievements of an illegal calculated contempt to the rest of Munster by organisation while in another guise pretend they choosing Dustin the turkey as the grand marshal have nothing to do with the organisation when it for the city’s St. Patrick’s Day parade. The leader starts kidnapping and beating up people. There is of the Labour Party in this House often purports a need for clarity on this issue. I am tired of to be a Cork man. Does he associate himself lectures from people who claim to be on the same with this? part of the political spectrum as me. I do not believe there is anything sufficiently wrong in this An Cathaoirleach: The Seanad has no control country to justify beating up or killing a single over this matter. person. This is the difference between my party and Sinn Fe´in.