Minute taker Summary drafter Date File name GHIOKAS 15/3/2019 BASN0315.GH1

“Strengthening Inclusion and Integration Policies for Migrants in Greece” Conference

UNREVISED

MATRONI DIKEAKOU (Conference Chairperson): Good day to you inside and outside the Senate Hall, where Greek Parliamentarians will today exchange views on the social integration of migrants in Greece and how this can be reinforced, with representatives of the

European Parliament and the European Commission, academics, and local government representatives.

I consider as particularly fateful the fact that this Conference coincides with the attacks at Christchurch New Zealand, which have left many dead as we are currently aware of, at two mosques, perhaps even at a school. So far, there are 40 people dead and 20 seriously injured.

Now let's get back to our Conference. This Conference is an unprecedented undertaking, at many levels, for the Greek Parliament. Furthermore, the Parliament invites citizens to raise their questions in person, while it also invites the many who could not possibly fit into this room, to send questions via Facebook and Twitter.

Greek Parliament TV is broadcasting directly from the Senate Hall over its third online channel WEB-3, which one can easily tune into through the Parliament’s website.

By 19.00 today approximately, we hope that we will have informed you on the EU's evolving policy regarding the integration of migrants, on the current Greek legislative framework for the social inclusion of migrants, on occurrences of discrimination as well as of solidarity in the Greek society, and on the application of policies and the implementation of actions for the social inclusion of migrants.

The Conference is taking place as part of the program “Science meets the Parliaments/

Science meets the Regions”, a pilot program that the European Parliament decided to fund last

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year, thus wishing to contribute to the best possible scientific information regarding policymaking.

The first Conference of the program was organized in November 2018 in London, again focusing on migration and its impact on policymaking and local communities. Four other

Conferences followed, with different topics, in Poland, France, Estonia and Latvia.

More about the program and the topic of the Conference will be heard in the welcome speeches of the President of the Greek Parliament, Mr. Nikos Voutsis, the 3rd Vice-President of the Parliament, Mrs. Anastasia Christodoulopoulou, the Secretary General of the Ministry of

Migration Policy, Mr. Miltiadis Klapas and Mrs. Patrizia Busolini, on behalf of the European

Commission's Directorate-General-Joint Research Center.

At this point I would like to call and give the floor to the President of the Greek

Parliament, Mr. Nikos Voutsis.

NIKOLAOS VOUTSIS (President of the Greek Parliament): Good morning.

I am going to say just a few words, because I am certain that in the discussions that will be made both with the distinguished ones and with, one might say, the experts, all the different aspects of this prepared inclusion strategy will unfold, will be highlighted and enriched.

For my part, I would like to welcome this effort. I would like to reaffirm that the

Parliament, with all its powers, with its institutions, is always present, willing, available for help, encouragement, cross-fertilization, enrichment and ultimately implementation of policies concerning the social inclusion and integration of migrants.

You are aware that in recent years there has been a response, on the part of the

Parliament, by a fairly large amount of money, of an aid, a provision, so that the school classrooms where courses are now taught to the children of refugees and migrants can be heated, and whatever else needs to be done we do, and we are ready to curate it, to sponsor and to aid.

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(Following on from the speech of Mr. NIKOLAOS VOUTSIS, President of the Greek

Parliament)

Allow me to try to put across a political message through this Welcome Speech, in view of the European elections not least.

Everyone has to realize that shaping and, above all, implementing a consistent humane, contemporary policy on social inclusion, is directly embedded in the objectives answering to the major problems, to the challenges of the very substance, the future, the entity and the existence of the EU.

This discussion, which is already taking place and is in progress also in view of the

European elections on a pan-European scale, ought to mark the passing from the time of disputes, conflicts and great divisions that have occurred with the request on the part of the xenophobic forces for prevention with regard to the migratory refugee flows, from that time, to a time when, together and with the proportional assumption of responsibilities by all the Member

States - and the respective protection of the respective societies, we will move on to the phase,

I repeat, of a consistent, aggressive, long-term, contemporary inclusion policy for large parts of migratory refugee flows in Europe.

It is therefore registered, this thought, this strategy, in the discussion agenda and steps have been taken. In our country, steps have been taken, and you know them very well and they will certainly be discussed later on, in all areas of health, welfare, education, institutional protection, housing, a series of programs which are evolving, they are in a transition phase.

This strategy however should also reflect a constantly growing awareness, I repeat, on a Europe-wide scale now, in the big picture of developments, that there is a need for steady policies, that the discussions which have taken place both with regard to the Dublin Regulation and to the asylum policies should advance at a much greater pace. So that the European peoples within two to two and a half months from now will see the challenge regarding this matter too, very well and clearly presented before them, and will make the corresponding decisions and reinforce, I would say, and support a new political interrelation at all levels of the

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elected EU bodies, which will support and assist with the consolidation, with the exploration of these policies on a Europe-wide scale.

So that we are thus able to leave behind, I repeat, the deep division that now exists and the encouragement instead or even tolerance- where the rules suddenly do not apply unceasingly as they did in other aspects of EU policy- of xenophobic, isolationist , claustrophobic and racist behaviors, which are a fuse and an element of further refusal, deconstruction, dissolution of the EU itself.

For our part, we are positively engaged on the side of those who promote these policies, who strengthen them and who also strengthen dialogue so that all the new institutional provisions on a Europe-wide scale can be made, so that they can truly delineate this new era after the European elections.

Therefore, today's Conference and discussions will become extremely timely, they have always been timely and it is the lives of people we are talking about, because we are talking about people, this is what the timeliness is about, they are concerned with both yesterday and the day before, and with today as well, but they are also politically timely on a

Europe-wide scale.

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(Following on from the speech of Mr. Nikolaos Voutsis, President of the Greek

Parliament)

I believe that both the conclusions and the resonance of these proceedings will positively contribute, possibly even by challenging-inviting all European party groups to put into their programs these conclusions on such political and institutional arrangements, that is, there are grounds also for the development of an agenda around these, in view of the European elections. I think that it will be a very positive initiative, a step, an imprint, which the Greek

Parliament definitely encourages, supports, and which you live with, experience, exchange with society and international fora everyday, in the field as you say and as we say too, and which you are bringing here as well, so that it may at last obtain a more institutional form. Good morning, be well.

MATRONI DIKEAKOU (Conference Chairperson): Thank you, Mr. President.

And now I am inviting the 3rd Vice-President of the Greek Parliament, Mrs. Anastasia

Christodoulopoulou, also a former Deputy Minister for Migration Policy, to give her own

Welcome Speech.

ANASTASIA CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (3rd Vice-President of the Greek

Parliament - Former Deputy Minister for Migration Policy): Good morning to all, to the guests, to the people of the field who are interested in these migration policy issues. I am glad to be among you in yet another public debate on the issues of social inclusion.

Social inclusion policies constitute a response to racism, intolerance and discrimination, they characterize human-centered societies, societies that put people at the center, that do not exclude, do not shut the door to people who are different and that is why we use the term “social inclusion” for other issues as well, for prisoners who get out of prison, for people who have become addicted to some substances, for people who are different, because

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precisely the open societies, the pluralist societies, the multicultural societies, are the open societies which accept all people, because every person is unique and at the same time can bring new things for all of us.

I would like to make a very small historical reference to inclusion issues. I use -along with many others- the term “inclusion” rather than “integration” because “integration” is a more arrogant process for including in a different society the people who have come and work or want to live here; and this year and in the recent years, the term “inclusivity” has also been increasingly used, meaning that these people who come from other countries and whom we want to be included in the society, we include them, that is, we turn them into citizens, we do not just want them to have obligations, but we also want them to have rights.

Therefore, I would like to say that Europe has a history in inclusion issues. Starting after the war, when humans were brought to the center due to the slaughter of the Second

World War, consequently they sought amidst the ruins left by bombings and destruction, to rebuild a new, peaceful Europe, a democratic Europe, a pluralist Europe. Then, many foreign nationals from third countries rushed to work there, and of course they were welcomed because at that time labor, and cheap labor in fact was in demand, and they contributed to the creation of that world of post-war prosperity in Europe, of which they were also participants and benefitted from those great successes.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. Anastasia Christodoulopoulou, 3rd Vice-

President of the Greek Parliament - Former Deputy Minister for Migration Policy)

Then, I am saying once again, to distinguish between the different time periods, migrants were welcome to the countries of Europe. The second big wave was in 1990, after the collapse of the Eastern bloc countries. Back then, you probably remember, there was the arrogance of the winners talking about the end of history, the end of ideologies and promising a world that, through the market, would be able to satisfy all needs. Therefore, although they did not want them, they were tolerant, they considered them as collateral loss and could not show their hostility. So, in 1990, citizens from the Eastern bloc countries entered the European area and they too contributed to a turning point, -because there was the transition to the crisis at that time- to a further development of the economies. Then, the first organizations of far-right background and racist speech began to appear, because most of all they were interested in that they came from these particular countries, which had some other formation procedures, through revolutions, wars, etc.

We are coming to the third wave of 2015 and a while ago, where indeed the migrants who rushed to Europe, while initially as they were refugees of war most of them and there was a taboo in Europe around the Geneva Convention on refugee rights, they showed relative tolerance, they quickly rallied and showed their real face. They closed the borders, closed the doors and not only this, but the governments along with the far-right, which, due to the governments’ politics found the ground to develop, they used racist practices, intolerant practices. Thus the issue of inclusion is coming back stronger. Right now, things are much more difficult because European societies are beginning to be afraid, they are beginning to feel insecure, because the economic situation creates such feelings. So they regarded refugees and migrants who came to their land completely as enemies, fearing that they would take their jobs, that they would create problems because of their religion. That is why we must really look at this entire issue from many angles, because in the first wave that I mentioned, one of the ways of inclusion was work, health care, education, and the grant of nationality as well. We have seen however that the second-generation children, many of the second-generation

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children were involved in cases of terrorism. Therefore, this alone proves that the inclusion of those children at that phase of the crisis, along with their parents, was largely symbolic, because they felt excluded, foreign, even though they had been born in those countries and had also participated in the education process.

In 1950, when the great influx began, there was no possibility for one to speak with racist speech because Nazism, which was the greatest crime of mankind, was too raw, was timely at that moment, and all societies condemned it because they had all tasted its barbarity.

So there was no room for far-right organizations to be born, and that is why I have said that from 1990 onwards -and it is no coincidence that with the rise of neoliberalism, which holds for the poor and the helpless a life of purely symbolic nature- they have been gaining a foothold and they have been developing and have been using migrants and refugees as a boogeyman, in order to paralyze societies, divide them or unite them, because through this process of economic crisis people lose their social identities.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. ANASTASIA CHRISTODOULOPOULOU, 3rd

Vice-President of the Greek Parliament, Former Deputy Minister for Migration Policy)

They are not employees, they are not students, they are nothing.

The only thing that is left to them is the national identity, being Greeks, being French, and through this national identity, which is the last retreat, nationalism is cultivated, racism is cultivated, and thus inclusion really is an aggressive phrase for these circles , because they can never understand how a state can spend money to educate, to teach, to cover the medical needs of people who are not native to the nation which implements such policies.

I would therefore like to say that we too, here in Greece, who met the first wave in 1990 with the Albanians and later with all those from the countries of the former Soviet Union, and from the Balkans as well, the Greek society was very much surprised and even though there were economic conditions for them to have employment -at that time there was the great chimera of the Olympic Games when people could be integrated in job positions- there was panic, which was mostly expressed by the governments, that voted laws in order to make those people feel permanently marginalized.

They were identified with crime, with dangerous views and perceptions, and so a huge effort was made so that those people could be integrated.

In 2015, when the Left governed for the first time, the first thing that it did was to pass the law on nationality.

Nationality, that is to consider third country nationals as one’s own nationals is the most effective means of social inclusion, because people and especially those to whom we gave the right of nationality, those who were second-generation children either born here or children who came here very young and studied in Greek schools, in Greek universities, should be immediately given this opportunity to constitute and to be included as citizens together with the

Greeks.

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I think this was a promise for us because there was a law previously as well that the

State Council had declared unconstitutional and it was for us a great political bet, because we believed and we still believe that nationality, that is to become a national of this country where they have decided to live, which they love, and especially children who have known no other home, no other country and no other language, and have this life in one particular country and,

I also think that we are the most generous one in Europe with regard to issue of nationality, which we can also discuss later on.

Consequently I welcome this discussion that we are going to make here as yet another effort to intensify our self-examination and to propose social inclusion policies so that we really implement the principles of a democratic society that is respect for the person, that is solidarity with the people, that is being against discrimination, against xenophobia, against racism, and as the President has said, things that are very timely, because in two months the European elections are being held and everyone is preparing for the rise of the far right.

I think that everyone, from whatever position we have, must raise our voice precisely because we believe first of all in democracy, humanism and solidarity.

I wish you success in your works.

Thank you.

MATRONI DIKEAKOU (Conference Chairperson): Mr. Klapas has the floor.

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MILTIADIS KLAPAS (Secretary General of the Ministry for Migration Policy): Mr

President, Members of Parliament, representatives of European and Greek organizations and institutions, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to convey the greetings of Mr. Vitsas, Minister for Migration Policy, and to express on his behalf his warmest wishes for the success of today's

Conference. Thank you for the opportunity you are giving us to speak at the event, and which

I am going to use to convey to you how the Ministry is planning our policy for the inclusion of migrants into Greece.

We are particularly pleased that on the one hand the need itself, and on the other hand the efforts and policies as a whole of both the Greek government and the Ministry of Migration

Policy, bring inclusion forward as an important issue in the political dialogue. Over the past 4 years, the Greek state has made a great, painstaking and consistent effort to build an efficient reception system. From asylum to housing, as well as access to basic commodities and rights, our country has achieved so far significant results. It has created more than 50,000 accommodation places in structures and apartments for applicants for international protection in the mainland, while in 2015 there were only 1,000.

It has ensured access for all to public health and free health care. But also the right to work. It has ensured access to the public education system for all children. We are proud to say that, with the work of the Ministry of Education and all those who helped, over 12,000 children attend the Greek public school this year at both primary and secondary schools and high schools. Of course these years there have been mistakes and failures. There have been delays, but the imprint of our efforts is positive. And while the reception may be often at the spotlight, also through the negative images projected by the media, but they do not do justice to the overall picture of the country's efforts.

Besides the management of the reception, the Greek state has gone in depth on issues concerning the inclusion of migrants and refugees. Inclusion is a new big challenge ahead of us at a level of political objectives. Today in our country we host 75,000 asylum seekers, refugees, other than 650,000 migrants living and working in this country. This reality and our political choice for a new approach to inclusion issues have led us to develop the new national inclusion strategy.

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The new national strategy is inclusive, realistic and fair. While preparing it, we were had to answer some critical questions which I would like to convey. The first question we had to answer is what kind of society we want, acknowledging the rise of xenophobia and racism, as well as the influence of far-right parties at a European level. Our answer is that we stand against them. Greece gives a different example that requires the great alignment of social forces against conservative redeployment.

Thus as a state we choose to build a country that works for everyone not only for the few and privileged. Our ultimate goal is a society that is diverse and open to diversity. A society based on common values, Democracy, freedom of speech, the rule of law, mutual respect. A society based on interaction, cooperation, dialogue as well as constructive criticism among different communities. That is a society that is democratic and equal. Besides this is the message of the solidarity of the Greek people, who, with their unparalleled stance in the days of 2015, gave a lesson to the whole world and to all Europe.

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(Mr. Miltiadis Clapas, Secretary General of the Ministry of Migration Policy continues

his speech)

Question number two, do we want our migration and inclusion policies to be temporary or do we want them to be long-term? We are planning thinking of the future. Inclusion is a process that takes time and has milestones. Our policies must have a long-term prospect in order to succeed. The policy we are developing analyzes the reasons why everyone ended up here, whether from conflicts, persecutions, or economic causes, and we plan accordingly.

Our interventions start from the moment the person enters the country and accompany him/her to the deepest stages of his/her integration. In other words, integration starts with the safeguarding of basic goods and ends with the recognition of each individual's political status, which entails political rights for those who see Greece as their home. This is provided for by the national integration strategy.

In addition, it is our choice the local authorities to be responsible for the inclusion as well. Interventions must include the community. This is an international experience with successful implementation and positive results, both in the short and long term. For us, the municipalities, the regions, and the movements act as catalysts for the contact between the host society and migrants. Only in this way we can avoid ghettoisation and xenophobic reactions.

Finally, our inclusion policies are horizontal. They harmonize the actions of stakeholders towards our common goals. Instead of small-scale interventions we did in the past, we are investing in holistic and large national programs for the involvement of the local authorities, that will strengthen the impact of our inclusion policy. We work to ensure that migrants and their children are able to enjoy their human rights, that they have unhindered access to health, insurance, work, education, culture and the public affairs. We are working towards this direction, always considering the balance between the rights of the native and the incoming population on the one hand, and on the other hand enhancing the sense of security and protection for Greek citizens and migrants alike, in order to maintain social cohesion.

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The third question we were asked to answer is how we treat migration as a whole. Is it a problem or an opportunity? Our efforts stem from the idea that migration is an opportunity, not a problem, for the economic, social and cultural development of the country. The Prime

Minister has recently highlighted this dimension, referring to the demographic issue. Migration, however, is also an opportunity for economic development and the strengthening of state structures through the adoption of progressive and effective policies on social policy, education, labor market, health and equality. It is therefore crucial to link a coherent, comprehensive and progressive inclusion policy with a strong, social state governed by the rule of law.

Today's Conference, however, addresses the strengthening of social inclusion and integration policies. How do we achieve this at a political level? The Ministry and the

Government as a whole are working in three directions. The first direction is the one I have already analyzed and has to do with the formulation of our inclusion policy, as reflected in the national strategy. I would like to point out that the national strategy is now a government policy, since it has been approved by the Government Social Policy Council. It was recently opened to public consultation, which was successfully completed and we will soon be posting the relevant report on the comments that we have received. We are grateful because the participation was great, but mainly because it was in the direction of strengthening what is described in the national strategy. This means that our planning has a foothold in society, citizens, movements and organizations. It is a realistic planning and it is feasible.

The second direction we are working in has to do with what we have planned and is to be implemented immediately, in cooperation with other competent governmental and transnational bodies, the importance and assistance of which I must underline from this rostrum. Specifically, within the coming months we are going to launch the training and promotion program for employment for 3,000 refugees, implemented by the Ministry of Labor and designed in collaboration with the Ministry for Migration Policy, as well as the “Helios” program, for which we have requested financing, for a definitive short-term intervention aiming at the beneficiaries gradually gaining their autonomy.

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(Following on from the speech of Mr. MILTIADIS KLAPAS (Secretary General of the

Ministry for Migration Policy)

The program includes housing, financial support, Greek language and cultural studies courses, and employability workshops, and this is very extensive, we are talking about thousands of people. At the same time, we are constantly examining the legislative framework and its effectiveness. we are promoting the reinstatement to legitimacy of migrants living illegally in the country or who have lost their legal status in the past, so that on the one hand they have access to the job market in a legal way and on the other that they fully enjoy the rights offered by the Greek state

The third direction towards which we are strengthening our policies has to do with coordinating the bodies involved in the field of inclusion. At the moment we set in motion the procedures for the creation of the forum. This is a recent initiative by the Ministry for Migration

Policy and we are planning to involve in it civil society bodies, migrant associations, international organizations as well as jointly responsible local government bodies, with the objective of having an open dialogue but above all of establishing evaluation at all levels, publicly and transparently, with regard to inclusion issues, whether these concern good practices or the transfer of know-how, the identification and resolution of issues regarding actions under implementation.

Ladies and gentlemen, migration is a phenomenon inherent in the evolution of humans and modern societies, and our planning and policies ought to respond to this reality. Looking towards the future, we are working and creating a sustainable and comprehensive inclusion framework, which will be flexible in order to respond to today's circumstances, but also to new challenges. A framework that will empower refugees and migrants but also the host society and will support their common rather than parallel development. Until this day, the Greek state has focused on and provided funds mainly to the reception. I will say something at this point that I often use to say. The time has come to move from the reception sprint to the inclusion marathon. On this route we are certain that there will be mistakes, that we will face difficulties, we already are, but we are adapting, we continue, we persist and we will make it. Thank you very much.

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MATRONI DIKEAKOU (Conference Chairperson): Thank you very much, Mr.

Klapas. It is time for the last welcome speech. It will be given by Mrs. Patrizia Busolini. A few words to get to know her. She works as a policy-maker for the Joint Research Center, the

Commission's Science and Knowledge Agency, which employs scientists to provide independent scientific advice and support to EU policy. She has worked, as a project coordinator of the Interreg Med Program Joint Secretariat for the strengthening of the policies for the governance and sustainable development of the European countries of the

Mediterranean.

Mrs. Busolini has the floor.

PATRIZIA BUSOLINI (European Commission, Directorate General - Joint

Research Center): Thank you very much. Good morning to everyone. I will speak in English,

I speak very little Greek. First of all, I would also like to thank on behalf of the European

Commission and on behalf of the Joint Research Center that I represent, the President Mr.

Voutsis and the Vice-President Mrs. Christodoulopoulou and Mr. Klapas, who have welcomed this event with their important statements. This is a series of events called “science meets the parliaments” at the initiative of the EU.

First of all, I would like to present to you the activities and the mission of the Joint

Research Center and then to present to you the general aim of this initiative called “science meets the parliaments”. So, first of all we have the administration of the Center, in which Tibor

Navracic, Commissioner for Education, Culture and Sport, is the coordinator and general director.

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(Following on from the speech of Patrizia Busolini, from the European Commission,

the Directorate-General and the Joint Research Center)

There is also a Board of Directors, and this Center supports the policies of the

Commission, the Parliament and the member states regarding the development of their policies.

Why is this important?

It is important because today we have a lot of information, we have a lot of data available to us, this information coming from various sources - from universities, research centers, the business world and the various market sectors - and all this information is an important opportunity, but at the same time it can also be a challenge, because this information needs management and a systematic approach so that it can be useful and comprehensible by the policymakers.

In this context, the Joint Research Center has the main task of making use of all this information in order to make it comprehensible and useful by policymakers, by anticipating social challenges for example, or the task of identifying and supporting complementarity, as already mentioned, among migration issues and spatial development and spatial challenges.

As far as the Joint Research Center is concerned, its work is based on scientific data, therefore the Joint Research Center is politically neutral and independent of private interests.

For the implementation of the mission, the Joint Research Center has set ten priorities.

They are thematic priorities which focus on a very multidisciplinary approach, namely it is based on complementarity between different aspects, and let us come back to the issue once again, such as for example spatial development and migration, which is one of the four priority areas.

As regards the mission and these priorities, the Joint Research Center is developing

Knowledge Centers, one of which is the one concerning migration and demography. It is a

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Knowledge Center about which we will give you more information this afternoon through our colleague.

Let me go into more detail with regard to this event that we are here to attend today, which takes place in the context of the “Science meets the Parliaments” initiative.

This initiative was launched in 2015. It is a flagship initiative with the aim of better supporting the dialogue between politics and science, of specifying the approach and the dialogue between science and politics. That initial experience was positive and next the

Commission and the Joint Research Center decided to further invest in this procedure and a call for expressions of interest was published and many Bodies expressed an interest, and so the Commission proceeded to organize such events based on specific challenges as well as opportunities, as already mentioned, which constitute a priority for each country and region, such as the support of dialogue not only among policymakers but also between citizens and local Authorities, with the support of scientific evidence.

I would like to finish by thanking once again the local Authorities for their support and the assistance that they offer to the European Commission and the Joint Research Center for the full implementation of this initiative in a truly, very important moment not just for Greece but for the whole Europe, and I would also like to stress that this initiative will be the first step in a permanent process and in this context I wish you good luck with your works today.

Thank you very much.

MATRONI DIKEAKOU (Conference Chairperson): We thank Mrs. Busolini.

At this point we will take a short break and we will come back shortly.

(BREAK)

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(After the break)

MATRONI DIKEAKOU (Conference Chairperson): Mrs. Christodoulopoulou, I would like us to proceed to begin this discussion, which has as a subject the EU policy for the integration of migrants or the inclusion which, as you pointed out earlier, is a better word, the new areas and priorities of this policy.

Mrs. Christodoulopoulou has the floor.

ANASTASIA (TASIA) CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (Chairing the Conference and 3rd

Vice-President of the Greek Parliament): Thank you very much.

Good morning and I wish good luck to this first panel that I will be chairing.

I am giving the floor to the first speaker, Mrs. Jean Lambert, UK MEP, aligned with the

Green Free Alliance political group and a member of the British Green Party.

This year she will be completing 20 years of office in the European Parliament, she is

President of the European Parliament Delegation for relations with South Asia, a member of the Employment and Social Affairs Committee and a substitute member of the Committee on

Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs of the European Parliament's Delegations for relations with India and Afghanistan.

Mrs. Lambert, this is off the subject, I would like to ask you how you feel that after so many years of office you will now be outside the European Parliament and how much you will be nostalgic of or feel relieved that you are not a member or anything else in the European

Parliament.

Mrs. Lambert has the floor.

JEAN LAMBERT (European Parliament - MEP): Thank you very much for the opportunity that you are giving me to be here this morning.

In reply to this question, I will say that I will feel relieved not to be there after twenty years, but I am very sorry that my country may not be there in the future.

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I wanted to start by saying that my colleague Claud Moraes, President of the Committee on Civil Liberties, can not attend and that is why I am here in his place.

I am going to start then with a health alert, saying the views I am going to express here come from my own political point of view and my own experience.

I am elected in the London area, perhaps the most multicultural city in Europe, where one in three citizens was born outside the United Kingdom and where we are proud that over one million EU citizens live there and we really hope that they will continue to live there, no matter what happens in the future.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. JEAN LAMBERT, European Parliament/MEP “Taking refugees out of the margin: the importance of integration”)

Taking into account the pressure on Greece due to the significant number of people looking for shelter here, arrive here and remain due to the Dublin regulation that essentially holds asylum seekers in the country of arrival and due to the lack of solidarity shown by other member states of the EU, which do not support or do not implement the relocation measures, and due to the pressure exerted by the EU-Turkey agreement, I will focus mainly on those persons seeking humanitarian aid and not on the issue of migration in general.

We know however from experience that it is important to make the right investment so that in the long run we can help with the integration of refugees and to always keep in mind that we need to support them. So how does this work at EU level right now with regard to the ongoing reform of the common European asylum system? We are trying to stop these secondary movements, that is the fact that these people are also going to another place.

The European Parliament has tried to create legislation that provides motives to migrants and refugees to stay in the member state where they have a residence permit and to have access to their rights there, that integration measures are taken and that migrants and refugees have free access to them. Therefore integration and inclusion have many aspects but mainly two processes, that is the voice of the migrants themselves must be heard. It is a system that takes into account the needs of the beneficiaries, gives access to support and does not focus only on punitive means. This would be more effective so that we may have truly sustainable inclusion in the long run.

So at the moment, the Parliament has asked for improvements so that there are the conditions for asylum seekers, beneficiaries of international protection to be more integrated and more included. There are relevant conditions. So what do you do with those who arrive?

We have asked for them to have access to the job market as soon as possible after they arrive, we aim for two months, as soon an asylum application is made in most member states we wait for up to 9 months, to the detriment, we believe, of the integration prospect of asylum seekers,

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many of them will work anyway but in an irregular way. This provision that we currently have talks about 6 months in negotiation.

Therefore, in reforming the common asylum system, we have promoted access to language learning, training and especially the Professional Qualifications Directive and the conditions to be fulfilled in order for a person to have his or her status covered. Essentially we want them to have supplementary assistance, those at risk of harm and especially refugees, of course, who are being persecuted or threatened to be driven out of their countries, who must have a right of access, as do local populations and the same access to the job market as local populations. We believe that the needs that these refugees have and the needs for supplementary assistance are not different from the needs of those who will go back.

Furthermore they also should not have different access to rights even if reunification is foreseen.

Another area of the debate is the extent of residence permits, especially in respect of those in need of supplementary protection. We believe that the ability to stay longer will not only help the persons directly interested in investing their presence in society but also employers and their willingness to make use of them and recruit them.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. JEAN LAMBERT/European Parliament/MEP)

This will also strengthen the local job market as long as they are allowed to remain and as long as employers too want to boost the job market in the long run. This is a process that every year, every two years, is revised, so this is a hindrance to effective work.

It is therefore also up to the societies themselves to help ensure supply-demand, this is a challenge, that is why a revision is called for of the Dublin Regulation so that asylum seekers are better able to re-start their lives in the country in which they have the right to remain. If one takes into account the important ties they have, the skills they have, the language they speak, one will help them be included in a country and perhaps they may, together with a group with which they have things in common, they may have greater opportunities for a better life in this country.

We know that job markets, demographic changes, differ from country to country, and that employers will seek different skills. This is why greater flexibility is needed in the legal framework for asylum. Perhaps the internal migration of refugees would also help in this. In some countries, we have also seen mobility essentially helping the various distant regions, we have seen this in Italy - at least in previous governments. We also recognize that inclusion is not just about finding a job, as the basic rules of the EU set out - while access to the job market is indeed important for social inclusion, there are other obstacles for one to actually reach the point of being fully included. There are discriminations, linguistic, educational, institutional. All these factors are a hindrance to migrants in general, so that they can fully participate in the job market, but also in society. Therefore, we should have an approach that addresses many of these aspects, many of these issues, one that really fights discrimination, words that we heard earlier from the President of the Parliament which are very important for setting these standards.

We need to tackle language barriers, recognize their skills, have education programs based on the educational background of these people, and of course also cover the needs of

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healthcare and psychological support, while very important of course is also the reunion of the families.

I also mention here that Member States can also support small and medium-sized enterprises, with concrete measures and advice on inclusion. Managing diversity is a very important skill and we do not pay enough attention to it.

Therefore, in the labor market, there are other social priorities that need to be strengthened at the same time as the labor market. First of all, we should demonstrate more solidarity in the laws governing the labor market regarding the remuneration and the working conditions. It is also important for the entire society to avoid exploitation of people or undermining employees. We must also invest in our public services so that diversity is accepted and the appropriate resources are spent. But you also need the Budget in order to be able to realize that.

Finally, regarding the money, following the arrangement that is taking place, we know that the Social Fund plus will play a major role in the inclusion of refugees.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. JEAN LAMBERT – European Parliament –

MEP)

As Parliament, we are worried that this Social Fund is being asked to support more goals with fewer resources - something that the Greek Government knows very well.

This week alone, the European Parliament voted for the next Fund for Migration and

Refugees. By a majority, we voted to extend the scope of this Fund and include integration and related actions in the EU.

A percentage, then, will be directed to local and regional authorities, implementing integration and inclusion activities. The role of these regional, local authorities is important. We know it. This can be observed in the integration cities that are participating, such as Athens and

Thessaloniki recently. This partnership, together with the social partners and the civil society are very important.

Therefore, in short, these were some of the thoughts and concerns the European

Parliament had and the hopes for successful inclusion. And we, as Parliamentarians, could talk for hours of course, but I will resist.

I expect to hear the continuation of the debate.

Thank you.

(applause in the room)

ANASTASIA CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (Chairing the Conference - 3rd Vice-

President of the Parliament): We also thank Mrs Lambert for the time and the meaning of what she said.

Now I am calling to the stand Mr Simon Mordue, Deputy Director-General of the

European Commission's Directorate-General for Migration and Home Affairs.

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He has offered his services to this institution for 25 years, starting from the Directorate for Transport, and soon moving to the field of Foreign Policy as a neighborhood and enlargement policy.

Please, keep going, Mrs. Dikeakou.

MATRONI DIKEAKOU (Conference Chairperson): In his last capacity, alongside

Commissioners Verheugen and Füle, he was a prominent member of the European

Commission Delegations in Romania and Turkey. In his current position, he is responsible for key policies in the areas of migration and home affairs, in particular the European Migration

Agenda.

Please, Mr Mordue.

SIMON MORDUE (Directorate-General for Migration and Home Affairs - Deputy

Director-General): Thank you very much and good morning, ladies and gentlemen and honorable Members of the Parliament.

It is a great pleasure to be here today in this Conference, given the great importance of integration in the European framework and, of course, in the Greek framework. Let me give you an idea of the situation.

Since 2015, the EU has granted international protection status to approximately 1.6 million people. I believe that, as a Union, one of the main challenges we face is to make sure that these people, who have come here to us seeking shelter and protection, who escaped from horrific persecutions and conflicts, can be integrated into our societies, to their benefit and to our benefit. This is also our interest, but at the same time it is not an easy task. We should be very honest about the challenges that we will all face and the efforts that will be required not only from migrants and refugees but also from our own societies.

In the Greek framework, in recent years we observe a tremendous increase in the number of people who have been granted protection from 2013 onwards. People sometimes forget the tremendous progress that has been made in Greece in recent years.

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Therefore, as of 2013, when the Hellenic Asylum Committee was established, Greece has granted international protection status to more than 37,000 people. And these are people who are now in Greece and must be integrated into the Greek society.

One interesting thing is that out of these 37 thousand people, 30% are children. I think that, today, it is very good that we reflect on the lessons that Europe and Greece can draw from the current and ongoing situation.

This week I was in Lesvos and I was able to see the work done inside and outside of

Moria in the safe zone. I also saw some of the faces of the children who were smiling, learning, playing, who once again used the environment of the teaching room under the auspices of

UNICEF.

It was also an example of the excellent work done by the Greeks, the NGOs, the international organizations that are there helping children learn Greek, tackle their issues and rediscover a peaceful and safe environment in which they can grow up.

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(Following on from the speech of Mr. Simon Mordue, Deputy Director-General of the

Directorate-General for Immigration and Home Affairs of the European Commission)

So, these people are the future, and if we invest in their integration, we will have achieved the integration of their parents in this society by half, in other words, to a large extent.

I would now like to address three more general issues in the context of the intervention.

Firstly, the reason why is it important, but also constitutes a strategic interest to invest in their integration. Secondly, I should say for my part that we should assess the condition of refugees and migrants in Greece and also say why Greece has many advantages that will enable it to face the challenge of integration.

First of all, I would like to see why it is important and certainly necessary to invest in integration. I firmly believe that any migration policy that does not take into account the issue of integration and social inclusion of migrants will fail, it is doomed to fail. Successful migration policies will be successful only if supported by effective models for integration policies. If we omit the integration issue, as is the case in some European countries, there will be failure, and non-integration and its cost will be much higher than the cost required for the investment, i.e. the cost that we must incur today for the inclusion of these migrants in the job market. For example, I mention that we have worked with the OECD. The following question arises: if we invest in integration today, when does this intervention offer its return? You know that the science of the economy is an exact science. So, looking at the rate of return, OECD says that the average is one and nineteen years, which is now the fastest period of return on investment compared to any other investment in the economy.

Therefore, the social inclusion of migrants is of critical importance to our societies and to our economies, and I am not the only one who says this. If we see some evidence - at a

European level - given by the Eurobarometer, we see that 69% of EU residents strongly believe that integration is a necessary investment in the long term. And in this respect, we see that it would be a missed opportunity if we fail to support the integration of migrants already settled in

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the EU, who in some cases already have specializations and a high level of education, despite the challenges that, of course, they must face at the same time.

Also, in the context of our work on competitiveness and job creation, we need to see what we need to do in order to significantly contribute to our goals to reach 70 % employment rate for the population in the EU for the 20-64 age group by 2020. The best way to achieve this is of course the integration of refugees and migrants in this area.

Also, if we look at the impact of an aging population on our societies and the impact of reducing working ages in the production, these are important signs to understand how we can achieve the employment goal set in the framework of the European Strategy 2020.

So, if we look at the evidence, it really is impressive. EUROSTAT tells us that the working-age population will be reduced by about six and a half a million people in the period

2015-2025. In the “no migrants” scenario, this would mean that we would have a decrease of about 17 million people, that is, in that same period we would have a decrease by 5.1%.

Therefore, integration is important, but, of course, it does not just have to do with financial data. It is our duty as European societies to offer opportunities to migrants who reside legally in the EU.

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(Following on from the speech of Mr. SIMON MORDUE, Directorate-General for

Migration and Home Affairs, Deputy Director-General “Promoting the integration of migrants

in Greece: the challenge posed by the Greek authorities and society with the support of the

EU”)

As I said before, it is a two-way process, it requires adjustments on the migrants’ part, and of course, tolerance and understanding on the part of the host societies.

Now, Greece is a special case. I think that the situation of migration in Greece is quite special compared to other EU countries. There are common elements, and the first one is the percentage of the population from third countries, which is 5.6 %, as in the rest of Europe. The characteristic we observe is a significant increase in the number of refugees in recent years.

This happens, indeed, in a country that, as you know better than I do, has been through difficult times because of the economic crisis and is just emerging from a long period of painful austerity.

We also know that initially a small percentage of people who arrived in Greece in 2015-

2016 eventually settled in the country. However, the situation has changed after 2015-2016 and if we return to the data that I gave you before, out of the 37,000 people granted international protection status in Greece since 2013 when the Asylum Committee was established, 31,000 received this status in 2016 only. What does this mean; It means that the EU-Turkey agreement has reduced the flow but has also raised specific challenges; one element that we observe today is that the composition of recent arrivals has changed significantly: in recent years only

8% of arrivals to the islands were from Syria. We see many Afghans and Africans from Sub-

Saharan Africa, who have a profile of more of an economic migrant. As Jean said earlier, out of the 31,000 who are beneficiaries of international protection will remain here.

Integration is a great challenge not only for Greece, but also for all EU Member States.

Third-country nationals have a very low employment rate, the difference compared to EU nationals is about 17 %, and they also suffer from a higher poverty rate. In Greece, specifically,

41.3 % of residents not born in the EU but living in Greece in 2017 bear is a risk of poverty, compared to 17.4% of Greek nationals. The situation is similar in the rest of the EU. This gives us a sense of the particular challenges we have to face.

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Another lesson we have learned , as I said earlier, it's that it is never easy to handle such a situation, because there is not only one player who can solve the overall problem of integration, one player is not enough. Coordination and cooperation between different ministries is required, I met the Deputy Minister of Labor and the Deputy Minister of Education yesterday to discuss these issues. We need housing, education, health, national authorities, regional authorities, civil society organizations.

The second big challenge we face is that we are in a society where people are waiting for immediate solutions and of course the solution to the problems of integration is not something that happens overnight, that happens on the same day. It is a gradual process that can take up to ten years.

Despite these difficulties, I would like to conclude with a positive message. Now,

Greece has the money it needs to successfully face this integration challenge, because despite the difficulties, I am convinced that Greek society, Greek organizations can respond to this challenge, and I will tell you which are the factors that support this view.

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(Following on from the speech of Mr. Simon Mordue, Deputy Director-General of the

Directorate-General for Migration and Home Affairs “Promoting the integration of migrants in

Greece: the challenge posed by the Greek authorities and society with the support of the EU”)

First of all, the Greek population. What we see to a great extent is that the role of Civil

Society, in particular non-governmental organizations, of the various partners, is important in identifying this issue, which the Government alone could not face. The local population has played a very important role since the reception phase and will also play an important role in the integration phase by providing support with employment, education and training opportunities, and indeed the generosity and support provided by the Greek population is impressive for the whole of Europe, and is a manifestation of humanity that really exists in today's society, and this has created, since the first moment, a positive framework for integration.

Secondly, I would like to emphasize that we are all witnessing the positive actions taken by local and regional authorities. We see local and regional authorities providing housing and support to migrants and refugees, we see that they are currently willing to work on a long-term basis for the inclusion and integration of migrants and refugees.

The third advantage is the commitment of the national authorities to this issue. The

Secretary-General has already presented the national migration strategy, which signals, for the part of the Central Government, the national authorities and the Greek State, that they want a full mobilization of all the bodies involved, the unions, the non-governmental organizations, the economic and commercial chambers, for properly addressing the issue of integration and it is genuinely based on one of the good practices of the European Commission.

Now, I would like to conclude with a final point with regard to funding. It goes without saying that, for the part of the European Union, we will continue to be very active and to provide funding to Greece, particularly with regard to the integration strategy. Since 2017 we have provided around 2 billion EUR in the form of support and humanitarian aid to Greece. Philippe

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from the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees will talk to us about some of the projects funded by the European Union, such as the “Home” project, the emergency support program for integration which has supported 55 thousand migrants and refugees. We have people who are still being supported by this form of aid.

I would like to conclude by saying that I am convinced that in the next funding period we will probably ensure that there will be further aid and funding to support Greece in the issues of integration of refugees and migrants into the Greek society through the structural funds and the Social Cohesion Fund and we will make sure that there is a link between this funding and the new arrivals, but also those who are about to be integrated and included in the Greek society.

Thank you very much for your attention.

ANASTASIA CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (3rd Vice-President of the Greek

Parliament - Conference Chairperson): We thank very much Mr. Mordue for the data he has contributed, but mainly for the good words that he said about Greek society and its availability in solidarity policies.

Now, I am giving the floor to Mrs. Kalliopi Lykovardi. She is a lawyer with expertise in human rights issues, has studied in Athens and Paris and has obtained her DEA in human rights and civil liberties. Since 1998, when the Ombudsman started operating, she has worked as a member of the scientific staff of the Authority in the human rights circle. In 2014 she was appointed coordinator of the Ombudsman's intercircle group for combatting discriminations. In

2016 she was appointed Ombudsman representative at the National Council against Racism and Intolerance and is leading her second term as a member of the board of directors of the

European Network of Promotion Bodies of the Equal Treatment Authority.

We hear you, Mrs. Lykovardi.

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KALLIOPI LYKOVARDI (Assistant Ombudsman for Equal Treatment at the

Independent “Ombudsman” Authority):

My current capacity is assistant ombudsman at the Ombudsman and my field of responsibility is equal treatment. First of all, I would like to congratulate the Parliament on this initiative and, of course to express, on behalf of Mr. Potakis, who could not be with us today, his congratulations on this initiative and our availability for any further continuation of such initiatives.

I would like to begin by looking back at the issues that arise with regard to the rights of foreign nationals, refugees and migrants, since these are essentially coincide with the establishment and operation of the Ombudsman in 1998. We are essentially in a phase when the field of migration in our country is changing completely. The Ombudsman during that period was the body that received a significant number of reports from the foreign nationals themselves, even when the relevant provision of migration law at that time, an obsolete provision, prohibited the Greek public administration from any transaction with a foreign national who did not possess legal residence documents. In addition to investigating individual reports and seeking practically applicable solutions to the problems raised by those individual reports, the Ombudsman sought and continues to seek to analyze and highlight the real causes of the problems that appear as symptoms in each individual case.

Based on these findings, the Ombudsman tries to contribute with its recommendations to the improvement of the legislative framework and to addressing any interpretational or organizational problems that may arise. In the late 1990s, the purpose of migration management in Greece was essentially linked to its normalization, that is its inclusion in a legal framework, and with the rather economical conferring of basic rights.

The challenge of migration policy - despite the fact that some issues still need to be addressed - can only be the social inclusion of these people, the equal enjoyment of rights, and particularly in an environment of crisis that opposes and fears the presence of the other. In such an environment enemies are easily constructed and dividing walls are raised between us and them. Correspondingly, it is rather easy for intolerant rhetoric and its warriors investing in fear

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and ignorance to resonate. The shocking images of dead children on the beaches of our islands recede when this child, the child that survived, comes to our school to attend.

These data is known and extremely worrying, not only in Greece of course but also across Europe. The social inclusion undertaking, which Mrs. Christodoulopoulou has already pointed out, constitutes the actual response and the great wager in decisively halting the perceptions which fuel hate and undermine the value of respect for human dignity and the common fundamental values of the European construction.

The transformation of the stated objective of migration policy into practice is directly linked to the government's readiness to respond to this requirement. It is obvious that the role of both the central and the regional government, and of local government as well is crucial, and also cooperation and coordination among them are necessary. In practice, it is no coincidence and it is often found that unwillingness to coordinate early and inaction are factors that allow - if not feed even - phenomena of ethnic intolerance and tension, which interfere with social cohesion and peace.

A number of problems related to issues connected with the administrative treatment, discrimination or the emergence of horizontal social tension and manifestations of intolerance have systematically constituted points of special focus on the annual reports of the Authority.

These problems are linked to key areas such as education, health, social protection, work and, of course, citizenship. All of these fields directly affect the degree to which results are achieved in the field of social inclusion and provide an indication as to what still needs to be done.

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(Following on from the speech of KALLIOPI LYKOVARDI, Independent

Ombudsman Authority, Assistant Ombudsman for Equal Treatment)

All of these fields directly affect the degree to which results are achieved in the field of social inclusion and provide an indication as to what still needs to be done.

Regarding the challenges posed by the treatment and management of migration and the refugee issue, the Ombudsman places a priority of major importance on respecting

International Law regarding the consistent protection of the rights of asylum seekers, refugees, migrants and all displaced persons, particularly taking into account the special risks faced by women, people with disabilities and children.

Obviously, specialization and special planning, as reflected in the national legislation or the national strategy, are of particular importance.

Particular importance, however, must be also lent to the harmonized application of the relevant legislations and, above all, to the perception that accompanies their application.

In this field, bodies such as the Ombudsman can make a significant contribution as they are essentially independent mechanisms of an internal evaluation of public policy and its application, which is mobilized by the citizens themselves through their right to submit reports.

Another field in which the Ombudsman has a decisive intervention is the fact that, apart from his contact with the Greek Public Administration, it also has, through the networking that it strives for, a direct contact with the civil society and organizations that are active in the field.

Thus, the combination of reports received by the Ombudsman with the information and exchange of opinions with the civil society and the organizations, as well as with the Public

Administration, provide a landscape of a clear picture of what goes on in the actual field.

So, in the actual social field a lagging is found in the breadth and content of the rights that our foreign national fellow citizens can enjoy, and it is important to note that while the legislative developments of recent years have decisively contributed to the improvement of this situation, obstacles still remain to be overcome. These obstacles are related either to

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legislation, outdated provisions that are still applied or, if you wish, to administrative practice, in which case what I mentioned before has a great importance and concerns the perception and the way in which the Administration itself can also in terms of interpretation overcome these problems that can be easily treated administratively.

However, I think that the great wager with regard to migration issues and issues of social inclusion is to focus a little more on second-generation migrants. We often focus, also after 2013 and much more after 2015, on the refugee and migratory flows of recent years.

We should not forget, however, that there is a population that has remained in Greece for very many years, and many of those fellow citizens of ours still have problems, although social inclusion should have already been a given for them.

Citizenship is a means of achieving social inclusion and it has already been mentioned.

What is observed in practice is that in education there are still problems if someone has not received the Greek citizenship.

The problem, however, seems to be not only that.

Even if someone finally gets the much wanted citizenship, the problems associated with the suspicion of the ethnically different still remain.

At the moment, there are provisions for a five-year period after which a naturalized person is allowed to be admitted to the National School of Judges.

There is a respective three-year time period for admittance to the Discipline of Experts of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and of course there is also one year of waiting for the person who wishes to become a civil servant.

The latter, I think, is already eliminated by the proposal submitted for the change with the bill on citizenship, but I would like to say that there may still be diffuse provisions posing a problem.

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When the Ombudsman intervenes there to talk about the equal enjoyment of rights, the typical reaction of the Administration is that if the law says so it can not do anything, and not only if the law says so but also if the regulation, regulatory acts or circulars say so.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. KALLIOPI LYKOVARDI, Assistant Ombudsman for Equal Treatment)

All these issues, I think, demonstrate a great readiness and alertness that everyone should have; I still believe and this is something I would like to stress at this point, that the administration plays a very important role in the part concerning social inclusion and this is what we wanted to demonstrate. On the part of the Ombudsman, the Ombudsman’s assistance consists in indicating the solution, in supporting it even if legislative regulation is required. The issue that remains unresolved is a pervading suspicion in some administrative procedures. You are very well aware that police control is very likely to happen to migrants or refugees or people who carry some specific characteristics and not so much to Greek citizens who carry or appear to carry the characteristics of the others.

However, various interventions of bodies such as a circular that recently froze all foreign citizens' transactions with tax offices, create problems the cost of which is often not even weighed. In other words, in this case of the suspicions of forgery of certain residence permits, a measure that completely prohibited the transactions of foreign citizens' with tax offices was virtually eliminated. This caused a great inability of anyone to do the slightest transaction and to exercise any basic right.

Therefore we should always weigh the costs and benefits; obviously no one would say that there should be no checks for possible forgery of documents on any citizen. It is just that the introduction of such practices, which are not so certain to be applicable to Greek citizens with the same easy, is truly still worrying.

The title of my speech is overcoming the obstacles and I am afraid that I have not been so optimistic in listing the problems that we are facing. I just want to clarify that, on the part of the Ombudsman, we usually underline the problems and not so much the positive steps that have already been made. In this 20-year retrospective, if you will, there have been significant steps, particularly in recent years, and there is real optimism as to what more can be done.

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We still insist on the fact that some issues need to be tackled mainly because the great wager of social inclusion, if not finally won, I fear will have a very big impact on social cohesion and on the establishing and empowerment of warriors who oppose not only the value of humans itself but also the value of the Democratic Political System.

In conclusion, I would like to say that social inclusion is a permanent goal obviously, it needs constant attention, this has been pointed out by everyone, it also needs, and I am fully relating this, a continuous confrontation with the undermining of the effort to socially include migrants, and this I consider to be a challenge for all of us. It is a challenge for the state, it is a challenge for society, it is a challenge for bodies such as the Ombudsman. Ultimately, it is a challenge for every Greek citizen living in this Territory.

ANASTASIA CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (3rd Vice-President of the Greek

Parliament - Chairing the Conference): The speeches have been concluded and I think that the discussion can begin with questions, contributions, so that we close the first round in time and move on to the next one. Which, sir or madam shall take the floor because women are more today.

Mrs. Gassouka has the floor.

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MARIA GASSOUKA (Professor at the University of the Aegean): The question is addressed to the last speaker from the Ombudsman and has to do with how the Ombudsman takes into account in its procedures and activities the internal categorizations of migrant and refugee populations. I mean this intolerable lumping together of everyone under the term

“migrant”, gay, straight, disabled, Christian, Muslim, all are put under the term “migrant” and are treated, I am afraid, in a uniform manner, without taking differences into consideration. I would like to ask you if this has been a concern for you. Additionally, and always in relation to this, how much do you take into account the gender dimension of migration? Is there any relevant education, training or awareness of your staff to be able to see such differences?

ANASTASIA CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (Chairing the Conference): Mrs. Lykovardi has the floor.

KALLIOPI LYKOVARDI (Assistant Ombudsman for Equal Treatment): Your observation is very pertinent and obviously the individual qualities of the people are not easily lumped together anyway. The Ombudsman’s focus on issues of migrant women or people with disabilities who are in refugee camps is a special focus. In the Ombudsman’s visits to any place, it tries to see the specific problems that arise either for women who are targets of sexual or other violence in specific places, and it is generally a special focus that we try to have, at least when we do these on-site inspections.

Other than that, in matters concerning equal treatment between men and women, obviously the focus on the migrant woman is also there. That is, in a labor dispute coming to us from the LIC [SEPE] and regarding complains about non-payment of accrued expenditure to a migrant woman, there is a suspicion that this might also happen because of her gender, it is something that you can be sure that we are there and dealing with it. It is obvious that much more needs to be done for these special groups, and it is obvious that the Ombudsman itself and its staff also need further briefing and training. The possibilities are relatively limited. We strive to do what we can and if this today's event is an opportunity for a contact channel to open with the academic community, we declare our availability to do it at any time. There is also the

National Center of Public Administration and Local Government [EKDDA], which we cooperate with. We would like for this cooperation to intensify and be steadily consolidated.

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ANASTASIA CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (Chairing the Conference): At this point I would like to say that these days the Greek Parliament is discussing the bill on substantive equality, which has been submitted at the initiative of the Ministry of Interior and which provides for means and special organizational conditions, on the basis of which equality will not be a wish but will bind both the administration and the State, so that equal treatment of women truly becomes the center of interest in the following period and after the voting. Consequently, I think that the Ombudsman will be able, perhaps even at an organizational level, suggest some modes in its internal functioning, that take special account of the gender dimension.

Mr. Pitasakis has the floor.

NIKOLAOS MOROS - PITASAKIS: Good morning, I am an employee at the Greek

Parliament and, at the same time, a student of Social Work at the University of Western Attica.

This is a very positive initiative that we are all experiencing and it is very good to hear about further cooperation with the academic community, which as you understand is also related to my studies.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. Nikolaos Pitasakis)

For myself I would like to ask you how we can help people, because it is understood that we are all equal and very different. This must be known, clear and heard in all tones. So how can we help migrant people, who are also disabled? That is, in terms of assisting these people who aside from not being able to understand the language, already the structure of public hospitals does not even help the people living here in Greece, let alone migrants. For example, there are no Braille signs, there are no escorts, there are no toilets or if there are they are inadequately existing. How can we help these people? Thank you very much.

ANASTASIA CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (3rd Vice-President of the Parliament -

Chairing the Conference): Mrs. Lykovardi has the floor.

KALLIOPI LYKOVARDI (Independent Ombudsman Authority, Assistant

Ombudsman for Equal Treatment): The issue of people with disabilities is an issue that obviously concerns a very large number of our fellow citizens, whether they have the migrant status or not. The issue of the quality of life of people with disabilities in our country is not to my thinking something to be proud of as a country. I absolutely understand what you are saying about how much more onerous it becomes if one is even in a situation far more difficult than the one possibly faced by some other fellow citizen with disabilities.

I think there is a special focus and a special treatment of some issues to the degree of feasibility, I would tell you. Namely, what I know is that these people are prioritized in their treatment. For example, in reception centers they are transferred to better structures or structures that are sufficient to support, I would tell you a visible disability, to begin with. The fact that many of the refugees who remain in the centers may have mental problems because of what they experienced in their country, this is an issue that is not an obvious disability or difficulty and in that case there is a need for another type of approach. I will completely agree with you, I think that there is no one who will disagree that a very great effort should be made in this matter, and I would tell you, even beyond visible disabilities, especially for these populations. Thank you very much.

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ANASTASIA CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (3rd Vice-President of the Parliament -

Chairing the Conference): Mrs. Katrivanou has the floor.

VASILIKI KATRIVANOU: My name is Vasiliki Katrivanou and I am in the Department of Coordination and Monitoring of Refugee Education of the Ministry of Education. I would like to ask Mr. Mordue, as I have listened with great interest to his words of praise regarding the effort made by the government in both welcoming and including refugees. However, since this is something directly linked to the wider European context and what is happening in our country is very interrelated with the rest of Europe, I would like to ask since he also represents this context, about the actions and thoughts at this moment, more specifically than what we know regarding the sharing of responsibilities in respect of refugee issues, regarding how he intends to ensure safe travel and safe reception and inclusion in the rest of Europe, not just in Greece?

What about the Unified European Asylum System? What about relocation? About family reunion?

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. Vasiliki Katrivanou)

All these issues that concern Europe in order to actually be a place of safe reception and inclusion of refugees more broadly, and not a continent that genuinely violates the Geneva

Convention and is a ground for the development of racism and xenophobia .

Thank you.

ANASTASIA CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (Chairing the Conference, 3rd Vice-

President of the Greek Parliament): Thank you, Mr. Mordue has the floor.

Simon Mordue (Deputy Director-General, Directorate-General for Migration and

Home Affairs): Thank you.

That is very correct what you are saying. It is something that Jean (Lambert) also mentioned in her own speech. We proposed I think, three years ago, a substantial reform of the common asylum system of the EU for three reasons. In order for Europe to have the tools to manage, at times mixed flows of migrants arriving in our regions -some are economic migrants, some are “asylum seekers” -there must be procedures that are effective, fair, fast, diversifying, there must be more convergence in what we generally do together as EU, but also there must be a balance in terms of sharing responsibility, who will carry the burden, especially the first country of arrival. We must show solidarity to this country when it takes such a heavy burden. This is a Principle in the “heart” of the EU, where I have been working for the past 25 years and I have been following the migration debate.

Where are we three years later?

The most unfortunate thing is that, despite the fact that there is a broad agreement, regarding 5 out of 7 points in the “package”, there is still no common position in the Council regarding “Dublin” and the asylum procedure, therefore we still do not have the basic elements of a legal mechanism, in a solidary and structured manner, to deal with these pressures that we are under, and this is a challenge for the European Commission -I do not hide it- that one

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of the reasons that I spend a lot of time in Greece cooperating with the Greek Authorities is so that we overcome some of these challenges and so that I ensure how they can show solidarity in other ways as well, like for example with our financial support to Greece.

There is a lot to be done still, and I believe that the reform of the EU common asylum system is essential so that asylum systems can cope with both “good days” and days of greater challenges, and so that we ensure that some of those values on which the EU is based will not be forgotten and that when countries face great pressure they will have the support.

We therefore continue also in the Council every day to call for progress in this area so that at least those points of the “package” where agreement is already in place are adopted.

There are areas where progress has been made. One example that I can mention is that Europe has begun to show more and more positive examples of resettlement. That is, when we have the “legal route” for those who are under protection from a third country, we have managed to resettle around 40,000 people in recent years, at EU level -we had not been able to achieve this in the past -with 10,000 euros invested in each resettlement, 50,000 more are expected, something that we encourage member states to do and we have also started reuniting the families. I am not always happy with the speed at which this is done, but I think, about 5,000 families were reunited last year from Greece in other EU member states.

Therefore there are positive examples but I still worry that without the structural adoption of the reforms and the EU common asylum system, we are unable to cope with the challenges of mixed migration flows and that there will be no balance in terms of shared responsibility and solidarity.

Thank you.

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ANASTASIA (TASIA) CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (Chairing the Conference and

3rd Vice-President of the Greek Parliament): Thanks.

Mrs. Mandouvalou has the floor.

SOFIA MANDOUVALOU (Writer - Educational TV Staff at the Ministry of

Education, Research and Religious Affairs): Thank you, Madam President.

Hello, my name is Sofia Mandouvalou and I am a writer of children's and youth literature.

Mrs. Lambert said the objective is to reduce tension and increase solidarity. Integration requires change of thinking, change of sentiment and change of the citizens’ attitude.

Is there any educational policy for this?

Thank you.

ANASTASIA (TASIA) CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (Chairing the Conference and

3rd Vice-President of the Greek Parliament): Mrs. Lambert has the floor.

JEAN LAMBERT (European Parliament - MEP): I think that what we have at a

European level is a set of principles, an action plan and various other individual elements.

However, I think that in order to achieve effectiveness the European level is not enough, but the other levels must also be involved. As we heard earlier, there is not just one level, one sector that can achieve everything.

Consequently, coherence is needed.

So, one of the things that we examine is that there needs to be a cohesion policy or rather policies, as the lady from the Ombudsman mentioned. There are a lot of things and cohesive too, but the legal framework does not allow us to do what is useful and appropriate.

Its interpretation does not allow it.

There is also a question with regard to the education and training of people who provide the services, based on human rights.

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Is there an obligation to promote integration and to combat discrimination?

This means that everything is not perfect. There is still racism, there is still discrimination, but there is a public duty and that is something that other countries have to consider.

We also learn a lot from the Integration Cities Network, how work is done locally that brings together people with different backgrounds so that they discuss and find solutions to the issues they are facing.

That is, therefore, very important in terms of mutual understanding or reaching agreement, even for simple things, such as when one should bring out their garbage for recycling.

People get angry and say “why do not all these do what they ought to do?”.

But has anyone told them where one finds the information?

All these little things creating a grid which constitutes the basis so that the dark forces, as I call them, feed on it, on this confusion and reaction.

Therefore it is very important for work to be done at a local level and we often underestimate it.

You said that you are a writer. I think that is also very important, so that people with a different background see that they are included in literature, in local culture and that they feel treated as an integral part and not as an exotic factor.

Therefore, integration at all levels. This is the most important thing and we certainly have not reached it yet.

Thank you.

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SOFIA MANDOUVALOU (Writer, Educational TV Staff at the Ministry of

Education, Research and Religious Affairs): Is there a program that helps develop empathy, is, so to speak, one of the goals of education?

SIMON MORDUE (Directorate-General for Migration and Home Affairs, Deputy

Director-General “Promoting the integration of migrants in Greece: the challenge posed by the Greek authorities and society, with the support of the EU”): We have several programs funded in Greece. I can give you many examples, but I will give you just one in particular, because I think that we often find that children can be the best way of integration.

That is, the programs we fund are concerned with the integration of young people up to the age of 15 and the education system enables the development of their own awareness of the local society in which they live and there is also a pilot agriculture program for young people up to the age of 15, so that they are able to acquire skills, learn the language and develop an awareness of the environment in which they live.

Yesterday, as I said, I met with representatives of the Ministry of Education and the

Ministry of Labor and we talked about projects whereby young people could become aware of the society in which they will create their new lives and about awareness-raising skills which are created at the level of difficulties and challenges faced by these people.

So there are good examples. Of course we need to do more things to promote and elevate these good examples that exist in Greece.

ANASTASIA (TASIA) CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (Chairing the Conference): Mrs.

Tsiaple has the floor.

AKRIBI TSIAPLE (Head of the Department of Mass Defense [PAM] and

Emergency Policy Planning [PSEA]) I am very happy to be in this job today. I do not want to ask questions to all the remarkable speakers and participants here, but I want to make a proposal.

Because I have lived right in the problem and have worked in a refugee coordination management team in 2015, you Madam President had come yourself then and we were trying

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to organize the management of up to 30,000 people in a place where the permanent residents were 25,000 and there was no infrastructure for us to be able to perform this management. This leads me, if you wish, to propose that the next job either from the Parliament, or from the EU representatives, or the Commissioner or the bodies that are here at this moment, take place in an island. Do you know why? Because, without meaning to offend or underestimate the experiences of anyone here, who speak with statistical numbers and data, it is different things that you learn when you live and work inside the problem and it is different things that your employees convey to you or the representatives or the staff who work for you in that place.

The locals who experienced this problem, no matter how much you congratulate them and you do well to do so, they have reached a point where they might even need to be discharged, as is the case with port workers who face and collect corpses. I am sorry for my remarks being made at this level but residents reached a point in 2015 where they would consider whether to swim in the sea or not for fear of coming into contact with corpses, as happened last week with the headless little girl in the south of Lesbos.

There is a certain psychology of the people that you here, and this is not a bad thing, but you cannot understand it. This thing creates two problems, a fear in some people and a willingness to help in some other people.

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((Following on from the speech of Mrs AKRIVI TSIAPLE, Head of the PAM-PSEA

Department)

On the other hand, refugees are experiencing an entrapment and they are experiencing it because they see dead ends. Because now they live in society and understand that their inclusion must go through an occupational field. However, an occupational field on an island that has neither tourism infrastructure nor factory infrastructure nor any other relevant infrastructure that I can think of, is something non-existent. And people are afraid. There is unemployment and of course the inclusion effort is going to bring difficulties, at least in the job sector.

These people live today with the policies of the EU, which finances their stay and gives them an amount to spend on their living with dignity, along with the help of the local community.

Humans, when not working and not offering and locked in an apartment, have a different psychology.

But the threat is also felt by the local inhabitant who can not find a job.

These things, I believe that you need to come up close to understand, to listen to what local communities say, to what the refugees and migrants themselves say. Those people who are or are not trapped. I believe that the policies proposed by the bodies, who really want to help, will become more specific.

That is all I had to say.

Congratulations on the work being done.

ANASTASIA CHRISTODOULOPOULOU (Chairing the Conference - 3rd Vice-

President of the Parliament): Thank you very much.

Your proposal is very interesting, because we must highlight in every possible way that the refugee and migration crisis in Greece presents itself, and is called mainly a host crisis.

That is where the problem lies, basically. In the absence of structures so that we may accommodate that many people with dignity, in that there are not enough employees to

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advance the asylum procedure, in that there is an agreement -a “Joint Declaration” as it is called- of the EU with Turkey, which seems to no longer work.

Therefore, we need to look -not just us, Greece, but Europe as well, for other ways.

Furthermore, the transport of these people who complete their procedures in the hinterland must be ready to receive them, because, the crisis actually produces mostly negative results in the reception procedure when they first arrive.

And while Greece is the only country which has not closed its ports, which does not prevent people from coming to seek asylum, it is now consistently attacked regarding the conditions on the islands and in the camp facilities, without those same people who pass criticism ever saying a good word. Not that we need it, but mostly in order to understand the ideological starting point of each person who speaks, so that they say that Greece does indeed abide by the Geneva Convention regarding refugees and that it makes enormous efforts and that it will never follow Salvini-like policies and leave people to their fate in the middle of the sea. You have seen how much the times have changed in Italy and how the “mare nostrum” -

“our sea” operation gave way to the view that the seas are only for the Italians.

And I think that the body organizing today's Conference will also take this into account, so that such talks will take place on the islands too, which are experiencing the crisis more directly.

At this point, the first round of discussions has been completed.

And I too thank you very much, for your participation and your presence. And particularly the speakers, with the ideas they have put forward about the usefulness of inclusion and the inclusion practices that we can follow.

Thank you very much.

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After the break.

MATRONI DIKEAKOU (Conference Chairperson): We dealt with policies at EU level.

We are returning to see the provisions of Greek legislation on the social inclusion of immigrant men and women, the challenges and adjustments.

In this discussion group, the chairperson is the 4th Vice-President of the Parliament,

Mr. Nikitas Kaklamanis, whom I would like to invite to the stand and give my position to him with great pleasure.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairperson, 4th Vice-President of the Hellenic

Parliament): Good morning.

The second part of today's event is titled “Greek legislation on the social inclusion of immigrant men and women. Challenges and Adjustments ". It is purely parliamentary with the participation of Mr. Alexandros Koutsoyannis from the Directorate for Scientific Studies of the

Parliament.

On behalf of the SYRIZA Parliamentary Group, the speaker will be Georgios

Psychogios. On behalf of the New Democracy, the speaker will be the competent person of the shadow government for the topic in question, Mr. Miltiadis Varvitsiotis. On behalf of the

Democratic Alignment, Professor Theodoros Papatheodorou. On behalf of the Parliamentary

Group of the Greek Communist Party Mrs. Diamanto Manolakou. The Union of Centrists’ representative will be Mr. Ioannis Saridis. The discussion will be closed by Mr. Alexandros

Koutsoyannis from the Directorate for Scientific Studies.

Of course, we must have some rules because we may have the room until 14.00. I would like to ask the speakers to express their views within the first seven minutes in order to have some significant time left, so that if we need to have a debate, to have the opportunity to do so. Each Speaker, after his/her speech, shall be ready in case a question is addressed to a specific speaker, or if it is general they shall all express their views together.

Mr. Psychogios, Representative of the SYRIZA Parliamentary Group has the floor.

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GEORGIOS PSYCHOGIOS (Representative of the SYRIZA Parliamentary Group):

Thank you very much, Mr Chairman.

Ladies and gentlemen of the conference, dear colleagues, I would like to thank you very much for the invitation to today’s workshop which is held in the Greek Parliament.

It is very important for us as parliamentarians to contribute to the dialogue that takes place on social inclusion policies for the migrants, through our experience in the legislative process but also as members of parliamentary assemblies of international organizations such as the Council of Europe and others. Indeed, I, as an individual and as Chairman of the Council of Europe's Integration Committee, I have the occasion and the pleasure to present certain aspects of this important issue.

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(Following on from the speech of Mr. GEORGIOS PSYCHOGIOS. Representative of

the SYRIZA Parliamentary Group)

The refugee and immigration issue is now a major issue for the political map across

Europe. It may be that most EU countries hardened their stance, that they “turned their backs” on this matter of great importance, and some of them even closed their borders and slipped into conservative, xenophobic views, by adopting policies and practices of deterrence.

In Greece, however, despite this ominous pan-European landscape and despite the real difficulties that exist at a host-country level, but also at the level of a country that until recently was bound by an austerity deal, we have largely managed to keep as our basic principles the management of the refugee and migration issue, humanism, solidarity, respect for the rights and provisions of International and European Law.

Today that significant steps having been made while at the same time there are still problems in the reception and hosting of asylum seekers, we have now begun to give priority to the inclusion policy that we have to pursue as a country for the whole of the refugee and migrant population that will eventually stay or has already been staying for several years in the country.

And this is our great wager. This effort does is not starting now, of course, but through a series of legislative interventions that have been made in the past years, we have put quite a few tiles in this colorful mosaic called “inclusion”.

The main means whereby inclusion into a society is achieved, are as we all know education, employment, access to social services, participation in social, cultural, sporting and other activities.

With regard to the education of child refugees, a great effort has been made by the

Ministry of Education, which is worth special mention. In 2016, the Special Scientific Committee set up an action plan on education, which currently implements the following: The operation of kindergartens within the accommodation structures. The creation of refugee educational structures of primary and secondary schools. The attendance of courses at the morning classes of schools and the operation of reception classes for all children residing outside camp facilities,

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which is also the main objective of the Ministry. In 2017, to accommodate the needs of children over the age of 15, reception classes were founded with special emphasis on access to High

Schools.

In this direction, the recent Law 4547/2018 was adopted which further institutionalized the educational framework for child refugees. In the third year of the program’s implementation, about twelve thousand children have been going to school regularly. And let us not forget that education is the most organic institution of inclusion because children are in the classroom together, while it also constitutes a context for contact among the families. It enables socialization but also the ability for the child to regain its status as such.

It is also a powerful blow to xenophobia and racism that grows in local communities. At this point, we should really hail and support the struggle given by the Ministry, teachers, parents and the solidarity of the community against extreme fascist voices and behaviors.

In addition to education, however, which I analyzed right before, we have also introduced legislative and administrative arrangements so as to facilitate access for refugee and migrant asylum seekers to the job market.

By Law 4375/2016 the right of asylum seekers to work is recognized, a fact which has brought improvements in the issuance of AMKA and AFM, i.e. Social Security and Tax Registry

Number in these categories as well as their registration in OAED [Manpower Employment

Organization] programs for finding work.

Additionally, in order to protect the job rights of thousands of migrants and to prevent tragic phenomena such as the one at Manolada, we have instituted by Law 4384/2016 the possibility of employing illegally staying third-country nationals for migrant workers of land, livestock, fishery and others, through the so-called “insurance-coupon”. This is an important move that aims for these people not to be invisible, but which can not however be considered as a comprehensive and complete protection framework, since more moves are needed, such as the ratification of the International Labor Convention 129.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. Georgios Psychogios, Representative of the

SYRIZA Parliamentary Group)

All these among others are important steps, but there is still a lot to be done in the job sector, as it is an sector that, in part due to the crisis, generally presents particular difficulties in our country. In order to talk about comprehensive inclusion policies in the job market, additional incentives must be provided to refugees and migrants in the following period, since work, other than economic independence and survival, means also dignity for their livelihoods and everyday lives.

We should also highlight interventions in access to health care, notably with the system of universal access for uninsured citizens to the health system, including refugees and migrants, as well as with the recent circular, like I said before, about the Social Security Number which everyone living in the country is entitled to.

Recently, we also had important legislative initiatives regarding the guardianship of unaccompanied refugee minors, and there have also been improvements in the insurance of child migrants who study in the country and who were not socially covered previously.

Apart from the main areas that I have mentioned, there are also other social, sporting and cultural activities to which, by a recent article in the bill of the Ministry of Culture and Sport, we grant the right of full access and unimpeded participation for refugees and migrants in amateur sport, something that up until now presented many problems.

An comprehensive system of residence permits as well as of citizenship acquisition is this, which constitutes the main link with the country, and where significant changes have also been made from 2015 onwards, both by the institutionalization of the law on citizenship for second generation children and by the naturalization procedure, which we are also currently discussing in the Parliament, how it will become more objective, more transparent and faster.

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Additionally, as part of the Constitutional Review, which is also topical, we as the

SYRIZA have put forward a proposal for the participation of migrants who have some years of residence and meet some conditions, in local government elections, which is very important to us and the European experience has also taught us that it constitutes a driver for participation, as well as rights and obligations for all who live in the country.

All this is also reflected in a draft national strategy plan for inclusion, which has been recently opened to public consultation by the Ministry for Migration Policy, which encapsulates all these aspects. There are proposals which we will take into account to move on, as I said earlier, to the next step, which is how these people will be included in the country and of course this for us is a priority and we are talking about inclusion and not integration or impairment, as we respect diversity, because inclusion means that we want to live all together harmoniously in a world that has and must have room for many people.

Concluding, I would like to once again hail this initiative, which must be continued both in the Field and at a theoretical level, and I will attend this discussion with great interest and we will have the opportunity to answer questions as well.

Thank you.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (4th Vice-President of the Greek Parliament - Conference

Chairperson): I now give the floor to the representative of the New Democracy, my colleague,

Mr. Miltiadis Varvitsiotis, who is the competent person of the shadow government of the

Opposition party.

MILTIADIS VARVITSIOTIS (Representative of the New Democracy Parliamentary

Group): It is true that Greece in recent years has been linked in everyone’s conscience to the matter of migration and refugees and it is true that our country, due to its geography, has been drawing thousands, hundreds of thousands of people who want to enter Europe. Greece has not been an one-stop destination in recent years, but in recent years, unlike the past -and I will talk about the recent past- Greece has been in the minds and consciousness of everyone in the country, a transit area, a bridge that would join their own expectations to go to other

European Union countries, especially of the north, where the economic conditions for their lives

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are much better than in the country here, which besides is also plagued by a deep economic crisis.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. MILTIADIS VARVITSIOTIS, Representative of the New Democracy Parliamentary Group)

In the past, we have had very big waves of economic migrants who wanted to stay in our country. It is no coincidence that about 800,000 Albanians came to the country in the past decade, worked and sent a huge piece of money back to Albania. I will only tell you characteristics to understand the size of the contribution that the money coming from Greece in 2010, accounting for about 12% of GDP. of Albania. We have also seen, of course, excellent examples of integration from this wave of migrants, such as the case of Yannis Adetokunbo or of Eleni Foureira, people who have been distinguished in different occasions.

What is happening today, in the face of the new spirit of immigration that we exist?

They happen, the following three paradoxes. The first paradox is that we have not yet managed to create a satisfactory first reception. Conditions, particularly in the islands, are an insult to human dignity, and any integration policy, especially in hotspot areas, seems to be inappropriate when basic hygiene conditions are not met. Thousands of people live in improvised camps, who are able to accommodate only a portion of them. At the hot spot of

Samos there are about 4500 people left at the moment, when it is hot spot can serve around

650-700. Most of them live in makeshift tents, without any health coverage or any serious accommodation standard, outside the hot spot in makeshift tents, without toilets, without shower stalls, without any health protection policy.

Beyond that, there is also an asylum procedure, because all these people are asking for the protection of Greece and are asking to acquire a status. In many cases the asylum procedure is so time-consuming that they get to be in an administrative limbo. They are in a situation in which they do not really know their rights, they do not know if they can stay, if one day they leave, where they will stay, where they will be able to get a roof over their heads and move on to an integration process or not.

The third stage is the continuous creation of new camps in the hinterland, of hosting centers, which are located in abandoned military camps, usually outside residential areas, such as for example in Ioannina, where the camp is in an old quarry several kilometers from any

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residential settlement. Thousands of people are accommodated in these special new ghettos which are being created, it is those ones who now have the possibility to stay in the country, who have obtained a residence permit either because they have been granted refugee status or because of social reasons.

Therefore we are talking about the final stage, which would be integration, without having solved the basic issues that have to do with decent living until you are given the possibility to stay in the country. We believe in a different policy. First of all, we do not believe in what has gotten into the minds of many, that Europe is a place of free entry and residence.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. MILTIADIS VARVITSIOTIS, representative of

the New Democracy Parliamentary Group)

We believe that Europe has borders, it must provide protection in those cases where people truly are entitled to it based on international treaties, it must be socially sensitive, but under no circumstance can it be a place where anybody may enter and acquire rights.

This situation can not continue.

The second thing that we believe is that we need a modern migration policy in which

Greece will actively be able to attract migrants so that they can also help by their contribution to its economic recovery.

The third thing that we believe in is that there must be a deep division between the irregular migrant, the economic migrant and the refugee.

Under no circumstance can we continue to treat the refugee as an inmate of a camp or a ghetto, but we must rather give them all the possibilities of integration, all the possibilities of economic creation and all the possibilities for family growth.

On the other hand, we must send a clear message to the irregular migrant that Greece can not at this time withstand the existence of thousands of people to whom it can not provide a decent living, decent work, decent conditions for economic and family growth, and we must create a program of serious voluntary returns.

In conclusion, I want to say, Mr. President, that naturalization policies are not policies that fall under any circumstances within the core of Europe, nor are they governed by international principles.

Naturalization policies are an exclusive national right and we have received an increased naturalization in the past few years following the changes introduced by the last Law on citizenship.

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Now, of course, the new modifications also bring the right of being recognized as a

Greek for a person who may have died and who might not even want to preserve their Greek identity from their heirs.

We believe that naturalization policies and the attribution of citizenship should remain among the hard core capacities of the state, that the applicant must demonstrate his mental and substantial association with the country and, of course, he/she must demonstrate that he/she has the intention to remain and contribute to the economic, social and national development of the country.

We do not believe in an extreme naturalization policy that can alter the nature and physiognomy of our citizens, but above all, we do not want a policy which does not take account history, since we live in a strange neighborhood in which our population is lower than the others, we have a demographic decline and in this neighborhood our external dangers do not seem to have settled.

Unfortunately, we are not in a position to share borders with mature democracies with economic growth. For example, Mr Chairman, as you also said as a Member of the European

Parliament, we are not fortunate enough to neighbor Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany and

France, but we are in a neighborhood where we see that geopolitical changes and our neighbors’ different nationalistic pursuits are not always friendly.

That is why maintaining the country's Greek identity must remain a dominant objective of the policies to be implemented.

Thank you very much.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (4th Vice-President of the Greek Parliament - Conference

Chairperson): Thank you, Mr Varvitsiotis.

I was informed that due to a personal impediment, my colleague from the Parliamentary

Group of the Democratic Alignment Party, Mr. Papatheodorou will not be able to attend.

So, we are moving with Mrs. Diamanto Manolakou, representative of the Parliamentary

Group and of course MP, of the Greek Communist Party.

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Mrs Manolakou has the floor.

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DIAMANDO MANOLAKOU (Representative of the Greek Communist Party): I would like to wish for success and drawing of useful and usable conclusions. To be honest, we do not think that the fact that the discussion at EU and UN level on the inclusion of immigrants and refugees in the social life of host countries has rebooted in the recent years is a coincidence. In fact, we do not think that this discussion stems from humanitarian ideals, as it should, nor does it stem from solidarity towards people uprooted due to imperialist interventions, persecution of reactionary regimes, poverty, etc., for which both NATO and the EU as well as their governments are responsible.

Why don’t we think that the motives are humanitarian?

But this is evidenced by their decisions in the period when caravans are increased and the drama of refugees and migrants trying to find a way out in the EU is escalated.

Moreover, the EU's decisions in recent years, what was it?

More crackdown on the external and internal borders, walls they raise, more confinement in host countries and third countries, violation of asylum seekers' rights, more prisons even for minors, profile selection of eligible migrants and refugees to meet the needs of business groups.

The EU - Greek Government - Turkey agreement implemented this policy. It double trapped asylum seekers under terrible conditions at the hotspots, reception and identification centers of the five Aegean islands. With negative consequences even in the lives of permanent residents. But also the entrapment of tens of thousands in mainland Greece in exchange for

European funds, or “captivity subsidies” as we call them.

These EU decisions have been co-signed, by both progressive governments and nationalist, xenophobic ones, despite their oppositions. The Greek government has also signed and implemented them. The other parties agree in essence. In addition, the government, which otherwise insists that it raised the question of changing the Dublin Regulation 3 to the EU institutions, signed an agreement with Germany which provides that all those found there in

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violation of the Regulation will be returned to Greece. That is why we believe that the lines that the government is trying to draw are fake.

The debate in the EU and Greece for the social integration of migrants, is linked to the need to rejuvenate the capitalist economy, the shortages in labor and scientific personnel, the problems with their insurance systems, the supply of monopolies with cheap labor with less rights, as well as the so-called social cohesion. This logic also includes the relative position of the prime minister who linked the integration and inclusion of migrants to the demographic challenge.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. DIAMANDO MANOLAKOU, Representative of

the Parliamentary Group of the Greek Communist Party)

With regard to some of the findings and the proposals of the national inclusion strategy that the government put in public consultation. As it happened with the previous one of 2013, one could not disagree. However, what is the grim reality and not the expressions of ideas, based of course, on recent developments? Thousands of recognized refugees housed in apartments and hospitality structures must be thrown out on the road soon. The will also be deprived from the financial aid that replaced the soup kitchens, because the relevant EU program includes on asylum seekers, and people from the islands must be transferred to these apartments. That means that being granted asylum turned from a wish to a curse for these people. Recently, they also protested at the European Commission's offices.

The housing program for recognized refugees as far as it will be implemented - because it is still on paper - provides only for a 6-month apartment accommodation, and then the refugees have to apply for the poverty benefits, with which the government tips the local population. Let me just tell you that these people do not speak the Greek language, because no state-organized and universal program of Greek language teaching has been implemented among the refugee population. In addition, they do not have family, thanks to which working households affected by the crisis and the policies of the memorandums manage to survive.

These problems are even more tragic for vulnerable refugees, pregnant women or young children, disabled or seriously ill unaccompanied adults. Let's talk about education. The hitherto governmental actions on the issue of refugee education not only do not create the conditions for the effective integration of these children into the public educational system but also create conditions for the ghettoisation of both intercultural schools and other schools whose overwhelming majority are migrant pupils. The necessary inclusion classes in the morning schools are missing. We are touring, we are also talking with the teachers. It is necessary to recruit the necessary educational and support staff with the basic infrastructure and special educational tools and it is also necessary to amend legislation on the acquisition of

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the Greek citizenship that is being discussed in the Parliament these days. Just like the legislation on residence permits passed by the government in the past. In our opinion, most of the provisions are problematic, even more reactive than the previous legislative framework, and they hurt and hold hostages thousands of migrants.

The legalization of living and working migrants who have developed ties with the country. We believe that already today in our country there is a large number of migrants and an entire second generation of migrants. We support their right to acquire citizenship and residence permits through simple procedures and not abusive fees. We are concerned about these, not because we want Greeks and migrants to be settled with poverty and unemployment and life without rights, but to fight together for the abolition of memorandum laws, collective agreements and wage increases, free health and education.

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(Following on from the speech of DIAMANDO MANOLAKOU, Representative of the

Central Committee of the Greek Communist Party)

But the main one, which constitutes the big difference with the other parties, is that the

Greek Communist Party calls on migrant and Greek workers to fight against the reasons that cause people to be eradicated from their place.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (4th Vice-President of the Hellenic Parliament -

Conference Chairperson): Mr. Ioannis Saridis, representative of the Union of Centrists, is not in the room at the moment.

Mr. Koutsoyiannis.

ALEXANDROS KOUTSOYANNIS: (Scientific Associate of the Scientific Office of the Hellenic Parliament): I would like to thank, from my side, the very important opportunity to have discussion on the issue of migration. I'll start with some commonplace findings. First of all, the primary cause of migration is the inability to maintain life or the poverty. As a consequence, the migration issue is not disconnected from emergencies, that is, from wars and, of course, from conditions of economic and social poverty, which are primary reasons and precede a warfare, or they follow it. The Greek experience is, by itself, indicative of this reality, for example, in the large post-war migratory waves of the 1950s and 1960s.

Today, of course, Greece is both. It is not only a host country, but also, once again, a country of outflows. In any case, the contemporary migration experience in Greece began around the decade of 1990 and continues to this day, when the migration issue is particularly rising on a global scale and taking on the characteristics of a crisis, where the typical economic migrant is identified as or transformed into a refugee and vice versa . One could therefore argue that the refugee problem is but an exception to the migration issue and that the two situations or the two status alternate in time.

Therefore, the distinction between refugees and migrants becomes technically and typically extremely useful on the one hand, but on the other hand it is extremely difficult. This

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contribution will not closely follow this division. I will divide my very brief speech in two main axes, one more specific which concerns the Greek Parliament and one more general, namely the highlighting of structural problems, a geopolitical one and a value one.

As far as the Greek Parliament is concerned, here we have two main strands, an institutional and a regulatory dimension. The institutional function of the Parliament includes a multitude of activities, from the participation and representation of the Parliament in international organizations and conferences, what we generally call parliamentary diplomacy, to the organization of scientific meetings and conferences such as today’s one, but also the implementation of programs and projects related to migration. Other initiatives are the practical support of refugees hosting facilities, the collection of pharmaceutical material as an initiative of the Association of Parliamentary Officers and the raising of awareness among citizens through the organization of photographic exhibitions.

Regarding the regulatory dimension, it concerns the legislative function itself, of course, the preparation and adoption of bills by the relevant committees and the Plenary. Two are mainly the central regulatory pillars which reflect the regulation of the main migrant categories, namely those seeking asylum and those who, as third-country nationals, wish to live or reside legally in the Greek territory. It is the Code of Migration and Social Inclusion, Law 4251/2014 and Law 4375/2016 on the organization and operation of an asylum service.

The first pillar aims to regulate the crossing of the Greek borders and the residence of third-country nationals in the country. In particular, with regard to the concern for the social inclusion of migrants, the Code mainly includes provisions on the relationship of third-country nationals with the State. This includes provisions regarding the issuance of a residence permit for professional, educational, scientific and humanitarian reasons.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. ALEXANDROS KOUTSOGIANNIS, Scientific

Service of the Greek Parliament)

As for chapters 6 and 8 they describe, respectively, the rights and obligations of third- country nationals, as well as the obligations of public services, employers and transporters.

The second pillar is geared towards regulating, if we may say so, faits accomplis, namely the provision of humanitarian aid and the granting of asylum. Since we are talking about the social inclusion of migrants, the fourth part of the bill included the conditions for access to employment of those recognized by the Greek state as beneficiaries of international protection.

It is noteworthy that one of the fundamental principles governing the examination for determining asylum status as well as the provision of a residence permit is that of the protection of minors and of family reunification.

I will now move on to the second main part of my speech, which is certain aspects, and

I will briefly mention them, of the migration issue. It is obvious that this issue does not concern exclusively the ways of management or returning or refoulement or inclusion of increased migratory flows. On the one hand the underlying economic and social causes and on the other hand the implications of the issue extend to both the fields of international and domestic politics.

The case of Germany is typical, where the migration issue dominated during the federal elections in September 2017, with an unprecedented rearrangement of the country's political map.

I will refer to two very general aspects of the weaknesses that have emerged so far.

The first one regards the now-known criticism of the unequal distribution of burdens among the

EU member states. The regional countries, including Greece of course, bear the greatest burden of examining asylum requests, while the practice that prevents exerting great pressures on the northern countries dominates the Dublin 1, 2 and 3 regulations, because the northern countries, as you understand, are more popular. Most migrants wish to go mostly there.

In exchange, these countries have promoted economic agreements, for example between the EU and Turkey in 2016, as well as the provision of financial assistance. In terms of political science, this question translates into a question of effectiveness of migration

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management policies, particularly against a reality of deficit, harmonization of political practices and a low degree of solidarity among the member states.

One last point which besides I started with, regarding refugees and economic migrants.

Modern social and political research, which, it should be noted, has been largely funded by the

EU, has shown that the reasons pushing people to migration are extremely complex and elude the prevailing categorizations of public opinion and the media, which usually distinguish in a simplistic manner among the temporary causes of migration or among different geographical zones. That is they distinguish between countries of origin and host countries. Reality shows, on the contrary, that migration motives are different among people moving in mass, namely who are in the same group. Many are likely to belong to more than one category at a time, and even those who are not directly affected by hostilities are forced to migrate precisely because they are deprived of their means of subsistence. That is, they can not keep their business, they can not support their families, they can not travel, work, etc. Therefore, the decision to move, particularly in the case of warfare, may fit into the wider context of a political economy of forced migration and is not solely due to the threat of physical violence.

Finally, one last myth against which a lot of criticism has been exercised is the one of incompatibility between the exercise of human rights and the logic of exclusion governing the control of European borders. Border security management as we all perceive works with biopolitical and disciplinary mechanisms that are not always in line with the terms of a humanitarian crisis.

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(Following on from the speech of Mr. Alexandros Koutsoyannis, from the Scientific

Service of the Greek Parliament)

The intensification of Frontex operations, the emphasis on refoulement, naval military missions and the “hot spots” approach, as inevitable as they may be, are aimed at halting migratory flows, while at the same time facilitating -and they are right in doing so- the activation of Non-Governmental Organizations, which aim at the respect of fundamental rights, without however calling into question the current migration policy.

The result of all these is the reproduction of a basic -and not at all new in European history- stereotypical distinction, between the “civilized European” and the “barbarous migrant”, who needs however, humanitarian aid firstly, but mostly, that is secondly, education and culture.

It is the well-known ideology of the colonial logic of the early 20th century, when the inhabitants of the colonies were considered as “children”, namely people incapable of self-government and therefore people who could be acclimated to the basic Principles of a democratic state.

Thank you very much.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference, 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): I too thank you, Professor. Mr. Pitasakis has the floor.

NIKOLAOS MOROS - PITASAKIS: My name is Moros-Pitasakis Nikolaos, I am a

Parliamentary Officer and a student at the University of Western Attica, at the Department of

Social Work.

Listening to the honorable MPs and to the honorable MP in their contributions, and particularly motivated by the contribution of Mrs. Manolakou, I would like to ask, because psycho-education on diversity is indeed starting from general Education. Greek teachers, and especially Greek primary school teachers, struggle everyday to integrate different cultures, different languages, and many times it is a challenge for them because there is a lack of means, under-funding, etc., which facts we already know and the honorable MPs have addressed them.

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I would like to ask two questions.

First. How can the Greek teacher be helped with this difficult task, which, as you know very well, is the first major halo in a child's life, after the family, and it is a model, especially for the children of migrants, who have experienced hunger, have experienced war, have experienced shortcomings in their lives, to enable them to be integrated and included -as the honorable MP of SYRIZA rightly said- to be fully integrated into Greek society?

Second. You know sometimes, this lack of welfare also creates crime. How, then, can we deal with and take certain measures so that the livelihood problem does not further trigger crime?

Thank you very much.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference, 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Thank you, Mrs. Manolakou has the floor.

DIAMANDO MANOLAKOU (Representative of the Parliamentary Group of the

Greek Communist Party): Thank you.

I want to tell you that we have been touring Primary and Secondary schools that accept child refugees included in a program. These children go to school and they do not know the language, so this is a problem, because while they love school, they want it and go there with joy as they describe to us, however there is not a stage of transition.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. DIAMANDOS MANOLAKOU, Representative of the

Parliamentary Group of the Greek Communist Party)

Therefore, the teachers themselves are asking for this transitional stage of preparation.

This is natural, it is logical, because they can not sit and not understand.

The issues that I have just raised exactly, it is because we run into them every day and not just in one school but in many schools. Because there is also a different culture, these children must be prepared.

I have also raised a second problem because we see that it is very acute, that of the home. When they are given a home for six months and the children have a home and go to school, and then they do not have this home anymore and they have to move.

You see how intertwined and how complex these issues are, but they need to be solved.

It is impossible for certain things to finish in a few months when there is no preparation.

Children of any age, especially child refugees, feel great joy when they hear about school. I remember when we went to the hot spots, the first thing we gave them, after having communicated with the carpenters' associations, etc., was paintings, because in the hot spot they wanted to learn the English language because they hoped that they would leave and that it would be useful.

I think that when welfare structures, as you said, are strengthened then crime will also cease. I have to tell you that there are also shrewd people who visit, who hire refugees and migrants and often leave them unpaid. Not everything works perfectly.

Therefore, such situations should be prevented. Prevention means that we are actually helping them with inclusion.

Thank you.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference and 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): And we thank you.

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Mr. Iliadis has the floor.

NIKOS ILIADIS (Honorary Consultant of the Pedagogical Institute for

Technological Education and Technical Vocational Training of Greece): Obviously, inclusion, the integration of migrants, apart from the humanitarian dimension that touches everyone’s sensitivities, also has economic implications, since in today's post-industrial age the exploitation of all human resources to the greatest degree possible, which is the main factor of economy and production, is what all is about.

However, our country, with all its potential and problems, has it considered the number of migrants that it can integrate, that it can include, so that they have essential access to education, health, culture, language learning or normal life?

The reason is that when we can not achieve all this, any discussion is a fool’s errand, especially when, as the representative of the Scientific Committee of the Parliament said, we are a country that has inflows and outflows of migrants. We have more than 500,000 scientists abroad at the moment.

As a matter of fact, they are the best human resources we have, with all the problems that our education has, because we have a very low-standard work environment where we can not make use of them. So they go and integrate whatever knowledge and skills they have in other economies and other countries.

So we lose from this outflow and we are in danger of destroying the highly skilled human resources of our country with incalculable consequences.

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(Following on from the speech of Mrs. NIKOS ILIADIS)

Therefore, we need to have some elements that enable us to make choices. How high a number are we capable of accommodating and in which directions we can make choices? I think we should obtain those elements at some point so we can make rational and clear choices.

Thank you very much.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): It is a general question. I will give the floor if they so wish to the 4 speakers.

Mr. Psychogios if you would like to answer on the question.

Mr. Psychogios has the floor.

GEORGIOS PSYCHOGIOS (Representative of the SYRIZA Parliamentary Group):

Thank you. Look, I think that this is an issue that has surely been of concern to the country for several years and several decades, it is not new and it has to do with the inflows and outflows that the country has had both to Europe and to the rest of the world, as well as from those countries to Greece.

I think that the strategy to be drawn is mainly about what I also mentioned in my contribution, that is about making the best use of these people, based on their special qualities, their diversity, either in work or in education or in healthcare or in relation to their skills, and to improving them even more with targeted programs so that on the one hand they are made use of in the job market and on the other hand they boost the insurance system, and of course also contribute to wider development of the country and the economy, not in terms of exploitation but in terms of equity, collectivity and solidarity.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Mr. Varvitsiotis.

MILTIADIS VARVITSIOTIS (Representative of the New Democracy Parliamentary

Group): I agree with the dimension Mr. Iliades presented. We export doctors and import

Afghans. This is the reality and unfortunately the people who choose to come to our country do

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not have the professional or the technical skills to contribute to production process at a high level. You should know that Germany faced a similar situation following the wave of 2015, when the German business association concluded that out of the 850,000 Syrian migrants, few of them could be integrated to the production process in Germany at no cost and without a long period of adaptation.

That is why I spoke about an active migration policy. Today in our country we really need specialized personnel, especially in services such as cutting-edge technology, particularly in the industrial sector, etc. We could attract people today to settle in the country, we even must attract businesses to the country and give them the right to bring their own people beyond those whom they will recruit here. We must create such a friendly environment, just because we have a huge outflow.

I want to point out one last thing. Approximately € 1.6 billion came to our country to address the problems of the refugee and migratory crisis. A huge amount of this money was lost outside of Greece, went to non-governmental organizations, which offered work with staff brought to Greece. For example, Norwegian doctors came to offer their services to Moria. The cost of the Norwegian doctor in Moria is about € 12,000 per month. With this amount of money, we could have employed 6 Greek doctors to offer their services to Moria.

Unfortunately, we have opened a huge window, lost the ability to educate Greek personnel in dealing with humanitarian crises, gave the room to third parties to come and be employed and we did not see any benefit either in terms of experience or in the economy.

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(Following on from the speech of Mr. MILTIADIS VARVITSIOTIS, Representative of

the Parliamentary Group of New Democracy)

Third example: we want doctors to go to the islands and the Greek CDC opens positions, 80% of which is not for medical staff, but it concerns administrative staff. And instead of paying adequate wages to the doctors, higher than the typical wage paid to civil servants in order for them to cover the health needs but also to stop the outflow of doctors to the Arab

Emirates or Germany - which has now become a habit -, we prefer to recruit seasonal employees for favoritism, instead of dealing with the problem.

These are techniques through which we could take advantage of the very problem created due to our geography, using the same human resources.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Mrs. Manolakou, on the same subject.

DIAMANDO MANOLAKOU (Representative of the Greek Communist Party): We do not see inflows and outflows. We see desperate people, who use Greece as a gateway to reach other countries. Over 90% want to go to Germany, Britain and Scandinavian countries. I state that in the simplest way and you know it too. Those of you who are in touch with the people, you know that they are asking for that. They ask nothing else. But what do they find?

The barrier, Dublin II and Dublin III. That is, the EU Regulations, implemented by the

Government in Greece.

Therefore, when raising the question of how many we need, we cannot say “I have a central planning for the economy and I need that many employees, in that many specialties”.

We are talking about desperate people who are fleeing to save their lives, their families or poor people who are looking for a job to survive.

Greece has transnational relations for employees. It has relations with Egypt in the fisheries sector, it even has relations with Member States, with Bulgaria, and for the greenhouses in Crete. And indeed, there is legislation on this. That is, legislation on the

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insurance payments, legislation providing that the employers must issue the remuneration check in advance etc.

So, what we see and ask for is free borders. We ask for these people to go to their country of choice. This is provided for by the international agreements and the Geneva

Convention.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Professor, if you want to add something yourself.

ALEXANDROS KOUTSOGIANNIS, Scientific Service of the Greek Parliament): I would like to say this, very briefly. I am not aware of any research that clearly reflects the profile of migrants who leave and of those who come.

Obviously, there is a distinction between high and low-skilled workforce. However, we also discussed about the second generation of migrants. What happens with the people who come and stay here. What is their wider contribution over time.

Therefore, I am sure that if they have the right Greek education, they have much to offer. And this gap, that we see at the moment, is very likely to close at some point in the future, as it happened in other countries - in the United States, for example, or in Great Britain.

Thank you.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Please, Mrs. Kavvadia. She is a MP of SY.RIZA.

IOANNETA KAVVADIA (1st Vice-President of the Specialized European Affairs

Standing Committee): Thank you, Mr President.

It is better not to leave issues that are discussed here hanging. I heard, not with great surprise to be honest, the position that we export doctors and import Afghans - in this style. In addition to the insult to the humanity, which characterizes those who said it, I highlight that the fact that these people's skills have not yet been evaluated does not mean they do not possess them. It does not mean that they do not have skills that can be used for the benefit of everyone

- both for their own benefit and for the benefit of the country.

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You know, I would like today's Conference not to be a field of party confrontation, and

I was hoping for that.

Unfortunately, the point is that, all of us who are participating in international fora, we are experiencing the devaluation of refugees and migrants by specific political groups and specific persons both within and outside the country.

It so happens that Ι head the Greek Delegation at the Council of the Parliamentary

Assembly of the European Council, and we experience these issues on a daily basis.

You know, it is a question of values and how each person perceives human life.

Thank you.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Listen. Here it is a scientific Conference, not a Parliament Plenary session for personal issues to be raised.

However Mrs. Kavadia has referred to our Colleague Mr. Varvitsiotis.

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IOANNETA KAVADIA (1st Vice-President of the Specialized Standing Committee for European Affairs): Mr. Varvitsiotis, referred to this particular Government, apparently.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Alright, we agree and that is exactly why I am noting that this is a Scientific

Conference, but in order to close the matter here, I will give the floor to Mr. Varvitsiotis for one minute for him to answer or clarify.

Mr. Varvitsiotis has the floor.

MILTIADIS VARVITSIOTIS (Representative of the New Democracy Parliamentary

Group): Mr. President, you know that the easiest thing one can do when one is been criticized for exercised policies is to put a nice label, devaluing human existence, while some others serve it.

I would challenge you and invite you, because I was in Moria the day before yesterday, and last week I was in Samos, to really see the respect of human existence where it is truly impoverished. If criticism is annoying and we wish to put labels, you know it is too easy, but it shows a lack of arguments. Labelling in politics, that is, putting labels, shows that we have lost the battle of arguments and we provoke the battle of impressions. I am not one to enter this game of populism.

I speak with arguments and I will continue to speak with arguments. It is a fact, you will be able to discover new skills in the arriving Afghans, but I will tell you that because I have visited Afghanistan and I do not know if you have ever been there, that it is not famous for its higher education nor for its economic development, nor for the techniques of participation in the modern economy.

It is a country which basically has a huge electrification problem, has not arrived to the digital age, there is an exclusion particularly of women from any stage of education, which has been lasting for the last 20 or 30 years. Also, people are dealing with either the problems of war or the problems of rural economy and production. So, let us not look for labels now.

I shall conclude by saying this, Mr. President. I realize that Mrs. Kavadia....

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NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Let us not make personal references, I will not get into the game of turning the Scientific Conference into a Plenary session.

I hope that is clear. All you MPs know that when I say something from the President’s stand, I mean it and that is that.

MILTIADIS VARVITSIOTIS (Representative of the New Democracy Parliamentary

Group): Mr. President, when I say something, I say something because I am the one who was offended.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Do not make personal references.

IOANNETA KAVVADIA (1st Vice-President of the Specialized European Affairs

Standing Committee): You offended me, Mr. Varvitsiotis, and you had your answer. If you have heard, Mr. Varvitsiotis....

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): You do not have the floor, Mr. Varvitsiotis is concluding, you do not have the floor. Mr. Varvitsiotis is concluding.

MILTIADIS VARVITSIOTIS (Representative of the New Democracy Parliamentary

Group): We may have different views, but we can reach an understanding. So, if Mrs. Kavadia wants to turn....

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Yes, but the Conference will not become a dialogue between two MPs, this is for the Plenary.

MILTIADIS VARVITSIOTIS (Representative of the New Democracy Parliamentary

Group): I would therefore like to say to her that there is the possibility next week, when we will have a debate in the Parliament about the bill of the Ministry of the Interior.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Exactly.

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MILTIADIS VARVITSIOTIS (Representative of the New Democracy Parliamentary

Group): The bill of the Ministry of the Interior, also contains the citizenship issues, let us argue there.

Here, however, you can not put such labels or exclude. If you are so annoyed by my presence, then, in the context of democracy, I think that you have to tolerate it for as long as this Conference lasts.

IOANNETA KAVVADIA (1st Vice-President of the Specialized Standing

Committee for European Affairs): Mr. President, I would like the floor for a minute, on a personal matter.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference - 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Please, Mrs. Kavadia, we are concluding and I do not want any personal reference. You have the floor for a political contribution for one minute.

Mrs. Kavadia has the floor.

IOANNETA KAVVADIA (1st Vice-President of the Specialized Standing

Committee for European Affairs): The matter is not personal, my name has been mentioned.

It is not personal, I am not annoyed, because you know, democracy is very tolerant and I am not annoyed. It is just that the people who watch us, can judge and have a memory, they remember the days of office of certain people.

As to whether certain people have been to Moria or Samos now, others went there much earlier. Because do not follow the logic of hiding the problem under the carpet, but under no circumstances do we follow tactics which, very gladly, would see migrants and refugees

“even drowned in the sea”.

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NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference and 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): This is not the viewpoint of Mr. Varvitsiotis, however!

Mrs. Mandouvalou has the floor.

SOFIA MANDOUVALOU (Playwright): I would like to read “Haiku” by David Cobb:

“Cry the children of bad neighbors just like ours”.

Thank you.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference and 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Mrs. Tsiaple has the floor.

AKRIVI TSIAPLE (General Secretariat for the Aegean and Island Policy in

Mytilene): Thank you.

I have a question for Mr. Psychogios. The subject of the discussion at the moment is:

Greek legislation regarding the social inclusion of migrants. Challenges and adjustments. Mrs.

Manolakou mentioned, but this is now discussed on the islands, that housing programs actually stop for refugees living in rented houses. I would therefore like to ask if there is any insight into how many these families are on the islands and what initiative the government will take in the following period, because it is very serious for the islands that people be left without homes, without jobs, without money and thus a difficult situation is predicted in cohabitation if these people remain there.

Thank you.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference and 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Mr. Psychogios has the floor.

GEORGIOS PSYCHOGIOS (Representative of the SYRIZA Parliamentary Group):

This is a question!

First of all, let us clarify that it concerns recognized refugees, it does not concern asylum seekers, so we are not talking about thousands, that is, we are talking about many, but we are not talking about the thousands of thousands. I want to be precise. It is not about how

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many they are, I want to be clear and say that we should be talking on a real basis when we say that those are recognized refugees, it is them that this is about and this is not the number that has been circulating. That there is an issue after a point for these people to be able to live outside facilities, integrate, work and have their dignity, this is what it is about, because this will lead to emancipation, inclusion or transport to the host countries. However, I do agree that this is an issue that needs to be dealt with very seriously, perhaps in a transitional manner, so as not to create problems or faits accomplis, or outbursts or situations that can bring people as well as local communities to a difficult position. So, I stand by these three points: Firstly, whom it concerns, secondly, that it has nothing to do with how many they are but does not have the dimension that has been circulating, and thirdly, that we might have to consider a transitional stage for the next day, with regard to where they will stay and how they will make use of the possibilities of the law and of programs so that we avoid housing problems and social outbursts.

Thank you.

NIKITAS KAKLAMANIS (Chairing the Conference and 4th Vice-President of the

Greek Parliament): Thank you very much for your cooperation. From what I see in the program we will take a break for your tour of the Parliament and a nice meal at the restaurant.

Have a nice weekend.

(Break)

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