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NATIONAL SECURITY and DEFENCE SÉCURITÉ NATIONALE ET DE LA DÉFENSE the Honourable Colin Kenny, Chair Président : L’Honorable Colin Kenny the Honourable J

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NATIONAL SECURITY and DEFENCE SÉCURITÉ NATIONALE ET DE LA DÉFENSE the Honourable Colin Kenny, Chair Président : L’Honorable Colin Kenny the Honourable J First Session Première session de la Thirty-eighth Parliament, 2004-05 trente-huitième législature, 2004-2005 SENATE OF CANADA SÉNAT DU CANADA Proceedings of the Standing Délibérations du Comité Senate Committee on sénatorial permanent de la National Security Sécurité nationale et and Defence de la défense Chair: Président : The Honourable COLIN KENNY L'honorable COLIN KENNY Wednesday, March 9, 2005 Le mercredi 9 mars 2005 Thursday, March 10, 2005 Le jeudi 10 mars 2005 Issue No. 18 Fascicule no 18 Fortieth, forty-first, forty-second and Quarantième, quarante et unième, quarante-deuxième forty-third meetings on: et quarante-troisième réunions concernant : Canada's national security policy La politique de sécurité nationale du Canada WITNESSES: TÉMOINS : (See back cover) (Voir à l'endos) 42283-42284-42285-42286 THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON LE COMITÉ SÉNATORIAL PERMANENT DE LA NATIONAL SECURITY AND DEFENCE SÉCURITÉ NATIONALE ET DE LA DÉFENSE The Honourable Colin Kenny, Chair Président : L'honorable Colin Kenny The Honourable J. Michael Forrestall, Deputy Chair Vice-président : L'honorable J. Michael Forrestall and et The Honourable Senators: Les honorables sénateurs : Atkins * Kinsella Atkins * Kinsella * Austin, P.C. (or Stratton) * Austin, C.P. (ou Stratton) (or Rompkey, P.C.) Lynch-Staunton (ou Rompkey, C.P.) Lynch-Staunton Banks Meighen Banks Meighen Cordy Munson Cordy Munson Day Day *Ex officio nembers * Membres d'office (Quorum 4) (Quorum 4) Change in membership of the committee: Modification de la composition du comité : Pursuant to rule 85(4), the membership of the committee was Conformément à l'article 85(4) du Règlement, la liste des amended as follows: membres du Comité est modifiée, ainsi qu'il suit : The name of the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton is Le nom de l'honorable sénateur Lynch-Staunton est substitué à substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Nolin celui de l'honorable sénateur Nolin (10 mars 2005). (March 10, 2005). Published by the Senate of Canada Publié par le Sénat du Canada Available from: Public Works and Government Services Canada Disponible auprès des: Travaux publics et Services gouvernementaux Canada ± Publishing and Depository Services, Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0S5 Les Éditions et Services de dépôt, Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0S5 Also available on the Internet: http://www.parl.gc.ca Aussi disponible sur internet: http://www.parl.gc.ca 10-3-2005 Sécurité nationale et défense 18:3 MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS PROCÈS-VERBAUX REGINA, Wednesday, March 9, 2005 REGINA, le mercredi 9 mars 2005 (41) (41) [English] [Traduction] The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Le Comité sénatorial permanent de la sécurité nationale et de Defence met this day at 3:00 p.m., in the Blue Lounge room, la défense se réunit aujourd'hui, à 15 heures, dans le Salon bleu du Radisson Plaza Hotel Saskatchewan Regina, Regina, Radisson Plaza Saskatchewan, Regina (Saskatchewan), sous la Saskatchewan, the Chair, the Honourable Colin Kenny, présidence de l'honorable Colin Kenny (président). presiding. Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Membres du comité présents : Les honorables sénateurs Atkins, Atkins, Forrestall, Kenny, Meighen and Munson (5). Forrestall, Kenny, Meighen et Munson (5). In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Également présents : De la Direction de la recherche Library of Parliament: William Price, Analyst; Major General parlementaire, Bibliothèque du Parlement : William Price, (Ret'd) Keith McDonald, Senior Military Advisor; Inspector analyste; le major-général (à la retraite) Keith McDonald, Harold O'Connell, RCMP Liaison Officer; Barry Denofsky, conseiller militaire principal; l'inspecteur Harold O'Connell, National Security Advisor; Captain (N) Kelly Williams, DND agent de liaison de la GRC; Barry Denofsky, conseiller à la Liaison Officer; and Maurice Dessureault, Military Advisor. sécurité nationale; le capitaine de vaisseau Kelly Williams, agent de liaison du MDN; et Maurice Dessureault, conseiller militaire. Also present: The official reporters of the Senate. Aussi présents : Les sténographes officiels du Sénat. Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Conformément à l'ordre de renvoi adopté par le Sénat le Wednesday, October 20, 2004, the committee continued its mercredi 20 octobre 2004, le comité poursuit son examen de la examination on the need for a national security policy for politique de sécurité nationale du Canada. (L'ordre de renvoi Canada. (See Issue No.1, Monday, October 25, 2004, of the figure dans le fascicule no 1 du lundi 25 octobre 2004.) committee's proceedings for the full text of the Order of Reference.) WITNESSES: TÉMOINS : National Defence: Défense nationale : Colonel Alain Boyer, Commander 15 Wing Moose Jaw. Le colonel Alain Boyer, commandant, 15e Escadre Moose Jaw. Bombardier Aerospace: Bombardier Aéronautique : Mick LeBoldus, Chief Representative at the NATO Flight Training Mick LeBoldus, représentant principal, Centre d'entraînement en vol Centre. de l'OTAN. National Defence: Défense nationale : Lieutenant-Colonel J.E. Wainwright, Commander, 16/17 Field Le lieutenant-colonel J.E. Wainwright, commandant, Ambulance; 16e/17e Ambulances de campagne; Lieutenant-Colonel Charlie Miller, Commander, 10th Field Artillery Le lieutenant-colonel Charlie Miller, commandant, 10e Régiment Regiment, RCA; d'artillerie de campagne, ARC; Lieutenant-Colonel Paul Rutherford, Commander, Le lieutenant-colonel Paul Rutherford, commandant, 73 Communication Group; 73e Groupe des communications; Lieutenant-Commander John Bell, Commander, HMCS Queen. Le capitaine de corvette John Bell, commandant, NCSM Queen. The Chair made an opening statement. Le président fait une déclaration. Colonel Alain Boyer and Mick LeBoldus each made a Le colonel Alain Boyer et Mick LeBoldus font une déclaration presentation and answered questions. et répondent aux questions. At 4:20 p.m., the committee suspended its sitting. À 16 h 20, le comité suspend ses travaux. At 4:30 p.m., the committee resumed its sitting. À 16 h 30, le comité reprend ses travaux. Lieutenant-Colonel J.E. Wainwright, Lieutenant-Colonel Les lieutenants-colonels J.E. Wainwright, Miller et Paul Miller, Lieutenant-Colonel Paul Rutherford and Lieutenant- Rutherford et le capitaine de corvette John Bell font une Commander John Bell each made a presentation and answered déclaration et répondent aux questions. questions. The Chair made an opening statement. Le président fait une déclaration. 18:4 National Security and Defence 10-3-2005 At 4:55 p.m., Senator Forrestall assumed the chair. À 16 h 55, le sénateur Forrestall assume la présidence. At 5:40 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair. À 17 h 40, le comité suspend ses travaux jusqu'à nouvelle convocation de la présidence. ATTEST: ATTESTÉ : REGINA, Wednesday, March 9, 2005 REGINA, le mercredi 9 mars 2005 (42) (42) [English] [Traduction] The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Le Comité sénatorial permanent de la sécurité nationale et de Defence met this day at 6:35 p.m., in the Blue Lounge room, la défense se réunit aujourd'hui, à 18 h 35, dans le Salon bleu du Radisson Plaza Hotel Saskatchewan Regina, Regina, Radisson Plaza Saskatchewan, Regina (Saskatchewan), sous la Saskatchewan, the Chair, the Honourable Colin Kenny, présidence de l'honorable Colin Kenny (président). presiding. Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Membres du comité présents : Les honorables sénateurs Atkins, Atkins, Forrestall, Kenny, Meighen and Munson (5). Forrestall, Kenny, Meighen et Munson (5). In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Également présents : De la Direction de la recherche Library of Parliament: William Price, Analyst; Major General parlementaire, Bibliothèque du Parlement : William Price, (Ret'd) Keith McDonald, Senior Military Advisor; Inspector analyste; le major-général (à la retraite) Keith McDonald, Harold O'Connell, RCMP Liaison Officer; Barry Denofsky, conseiller militaire principal; l'inspecteur Harold O'Connell, National Security Advisor; Captain (N) Kelly Williams, DND agent de liaison de la GRC; Barry Denofsky, conseiller à la Liaison Officer; and Maurice Dessureault, Military Advisor. sécurité nationale; le capitaine de vaisseau Kelly Williams, agent de liaison du MDN; et Maurice Dessureault, conseiller militaire. Also present: The official reporters of the Senate. Aussi présents : Les sténographes officiels du Sénat. Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Conformément à l'ordre de renvoi adopté par le Sénat le Wednesday, October 20, 2004, the committee continued its mercredi 20 octobre 2004, le comité poursuit son examen de la examination on the need for a national security policy for politique de sécurité nationale du Canada. (L'ordre de renvoi Canada. (See Issue No.1, Monday, October 25, 2004, of the figure dans le fascicule no 1 du lundi 25 octobre 2004.) committee's proceedings for the full text of the Order of Reference.) WITNESSES: TÉMOINS : As individuals: À titre personnel : Brigadier-General (Ret'd) Cliff Walker. Le brigadier-général (à la retraite) Cliff Walker; Jamie Hopkins; Jamie Hopkins; Doug Lennox; Doug Lennox; Colonel (Ret'd) Charles Keple; Le colonel (à la retraite) Charles Keple; Jan van Eijk; Jan van Eijk; Honourary Colonel R.V. Cade; Le colonel honoraire R.V. Cade; John Yeomans. John Yeomans. The Chair made an opening statement. Le président fait une déclaration. Brigadier-General (Ret'd) Cliff Walker made an opening Le brigadier-général
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