24 Nov 1999 Legislative Assembly 5229

WEDNESDAY, 24 NOVEMBER 1999 Queensland. My Government takes seriously the concerns of Doomadgee residents for quality service delivery and the concerns of our health workers for their safety. Doomadgee Mr SPEAKER (Hon. R. K. Hollis, Redcliffe) residents are entitled to the same level and read prayers and took the chair at 9.30 a.m. quality of public provision as other Queenslanders and we will seek to meet that expectation. But my Government also takes PETITIONS equally seriously the need for those who serve The Clerk announced the receipt of the remote communities to do their job without following petitions— fear or intimidation. Over the last 48 hours the Government Moreton Bay Islands has been working hard to restore health services in Doomadgee and to address some From Mr Beanland (199 petitioners) of the underlying issues which fuelled requesting the House to ask the Premier of unfortunate incidents such as those which Queensland, the Honourable Peter Beattie, occurred over the weekend. While media MLA, to begin an immediate, comprehensive, reports have focused on tensions at the local independent, public investigation with judicial hospital, I have spoken to a significant elder of powers into (a) the rezoning and downgrading the indigenous community who told me of a of residential A freehold properties on Russell, range of strongly held views about the issues Macleay, Lamb and Karragarra Islands and confronting people in Doomadgee. the resulting devaluation, e.g. $45,000 to $500; and (b) possible waste of public funds To get to the heart of these matters I am spent on the Southern Moreton Bay Islands sending a Premier's task force, headed by the Planning and Land Use Strategy of over member for Mount Isa and Minister for Mines $500,000. and Energy, to Doomadgee today after question time. I am proud to announce that he will be joined by the Executive Director of the Prostitution Laws Department of Aboriginal and Torres Strait From Mr Horan (5,435 petitioners) Islander Policy, Ms Kerrie Tim. Ms Tim, a requesting the House to reject any move to Kalkadoon woman from this area, is the legalise brothels in Queensland and do all in Government's most senior Aboriginal officer its power to restrict and contain this immoral and she will report directly to the Minister for practice which is so harmful to society. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Policy who will jointly sign the resulting Cabinet Petitions received. submission. The task force will be supported by a PAPERS small team of officials familiar with the issues MINISTERIAL PAPERS confronting remote indigenous communities and will provide the Government with first-hand The following papers were tabled— information and advice. This will include health (a) Attorney-General and Minister for Justice issues but extend to— and Minister for The Arts (Mr Foley)— concerns about the range of services Children's Court of Queensland—Annual Report for 1998-99 provided by the State and local government; (b) Minister for Health (Mrs Edmond)— the operation of the criminal justice Toowoomba Hospital Foundation—Annual Report for 1998-99 system; Statement in accordance with s 46KD of and support for Doomadgee people trying the Financial Administration and Audit Act to make their homes and lives in this 1977. often-isolated and difficult region of the State. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT I commend the Minister for taking on this task and those public servants accompanying Doomadgee him as well as the other Ministers involved. I Hon. P. D. BEATTIE (Brisbane Central— also thank the Leader of the Opposition for ALP) (Premier) (9.33 a.m.), by leave: The agreeing to provide a pair for the Minister, thus House will be aware of some unrest within the maintaining the balance of power in community of Doomadgee in north-west Parliament. 5230 Ministerial Statement 24 Nov 1999

It is essential that my Government should achievements since its introduction 14 months do everything it can to try to fix this problem ago, is working well. They include an additional once and for all. We cannot impose decisions. $1.28m for our Multicultural Assistance I am demonstrating that I am prepared to lead Program and a community relations plan which in seeking long-term solutions and I call on the is a blueprint for Government and communities leaders in Doomadgee to seize the initiative so when developing multicultural programs, that together—in partnership—we can build a projects and events. There is much to strong future for the community. To achieve celebrate about multiculturalism. Tonight we this, the community leaders must also provide will do just that. leadership. I urge them to do so today. A Also there is much to celebrate about report on the initial findings of this task force business confidence. While we are talking will be made to Cabinet on Monday. about these issues, I am happy to report that business is booming under the policies of my MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Government. Despite the criticism and nonsense that we hear peddled from time to Premier's Awards; Business Confidence time by various people, business confidence Hon. P. D. BEATTIE (Brisbane Central— and results are running at near record levels in ALP) (Premier) (9.36 a.m.), by leave: Tonight I Queensland. Yesterday the Yellow Pages will be attending a ceremony that underlines Small Business Index showed that a net 20% my Government's commitment to a richly of the State's small business proprietors diverse yet unified society. Tonight I will be reported increased sales revenues for the announcing the winners in the 1999 three months to the end of October. That is Queensland Multicultural Service Awards. good news. This is the second-highest level Nominations for the awards have come from recorded in Queensland since the survey across the State. There are 49 individual started in July 1994. nominations, 25 from organisations and 29 for So let us get this straight. I want everyone the school awards. I introduced the school in this House and all Queenslanders to take awards last year to remind our young people note. In two and a half years of coalition of the importance of their contribution to Government, business results as recorded by multiculturalism. Tonight we will be the Yellow Pages survey were never this good. congratulating two schools that have brought The coalition maintains that its industrial to life the principles of multiculturalism. I look relations legislation was better than ours and forward to meeting these winners and the that our legislation is detrimental to small winners in other categories and generally business. The results speak for themselves. celebrating multiculturalism. According to this survey, business has never Our society is diverse, with people from been better since 1994 than under my about 150 different countries of birth speaking Government. That is because the only higher 120 languages and practising 43 religions. We results figure ever obtained was also under my have more than 200 Aboriginal and Torres Government in January this year. I want to Strait Islander groups in Queensland alone. underline that these are business results for Each of those different groups brought with the three months to the end of October and them their traditions and cultures, thereby they are not predictions. It is good news from a enriching the social fabric of this State. can-do Government. Multiculturalism and tolerance are not only the underlying strengths of our community, they also bring economic benefits. My Government MINISTERIAL STATEMENT is working with various communities to further Y2K Contingency Planning Workbook open up opportunities in trade, investment and Hon. J. P. ELDER (Capalaba—ALP) business. We have already held a tourism and (Deputy Premier and Minister for State trade summit in Brisbane at which I and other Development and Minister for Trade) Ministers addressed leaders of our ethnic (9.40 a.m.), by leave: Honourable members communities while sending the message to would be aware of this Government's efforts to Asia and the rest of the world that we want to help Queensland business, small business in do business with them. particular, cope with any problems that occur Last week's International Business with their business systems in the dawn of a Diversity Summit in Cairns brought together new millennium as a result of what is Government and business representatives to commonly known as the Y2K bug. The develop strategies for increasing exports and Government has held seminars the length and employment. Our Multicultural Queensland breadth of the State for all small businesses. policy, which has scored significant All members of the House would be aware that 24 Nov 1999 Ministerial Statement 5231 the Queensland Government produced a business associations, local governments, workbook that provided small business with a chambers of commerce, banks and check list so that they can work through their accountants. All members of Parliament will own systems to check if they are Y2K receive several copies next week, if they have compliant. This received a strong response not done so already. I would like to thank from small business: 130,000 copies of the members for their support in advance. I have a book were distributed and I thank the preliminary copy of the workbook. Members members from both sides of the House who played a proactive role in distributing the helped distribute it and raise awareness previous workbook. I commend it to the small among small businesses in their electorates. businesses in their electorates. In general, however, our experience has been that while larger businesses have MINISTERIAL STATEMENT generally had time and money to implement Racing Industry Debt systems to cope with Y2K, many small businesses are adopting a wait and see Hon. R. J. GIBBS (Bundamba—ALP) attitude and are generally waiting to see if (Minister for Tourism, Sport and Racing) anything goes wrong with their systems after (9.43 a.m.), by leave: I am happy to announce the new year and then they will make the that the Beattie Labor Government will today corrections to their systems. So while provide a $10m cash injection to the businesses which have undertaken Y2K audit Queensland racing industry and pay off racing and remediation plans can be very confident industry debt of approximately $37m following of a problem-free turn of the century, there last week's sale of the Queensland TAB. The could still be unexpected failures which may $10m one-off capital injection is on top of the impact directly or indirectly on their businesses. $6m we paid to the industry from the finalisation of the Racing Development Fund Consequently, the Government has on 1 July this year. The three codes of the developed a Y2K Contingency Planning industry will all benefit with the Queensland Workbook to provide Queensland business Principal Club receiving $7.6m, the and industry with the process to develop a Queensland Harness Racing Board, $1.45m backup plan should any unforeseen failures and the greyhound racing industry, $950,000. occur due to the year 2000 date change This money should help the three codes in problem. This workbook will assist those putting the industry on a more commercial businesses that have completed their Y2K footing. audit and remediation plan to gain a final assurance that their business will continue to Following the sale of the TAB, the three trade into the year 2000. The workbook can codes will find themselves dealing with the also be used by businesses as a contingency commercial realities of having to compete for planning tool for other circumstances the public's leisure dollar. The other detrimental to their success, such as loss of consequence of the TAB sale is the end of the key personnel, illness or resignation, disruption massive debt that was bequeathed to the to essential services, supplier or customer Queensland racing industry by former National business failure, or damage caused by acts of Party Governments. When I first became nature. Racing Minister with the election of the Goss Labor Government in 1989, the extent of pork- The Y2K Contingency Planning Workbook barrelling by successive National Party is being released now, because activity in Governments became clear. In 1986, the preparation for Y2K among small businesses Bjelke-Petersen Government borrowed $72m has tapered off. While the Australian Bureau from the Westpac Bank on behalf of the racing of Statistics reports that the number of industry. The money was used to refinance businesses in Queensland that are Y2K ready hard-core debt racked up by racing has increased from 9% at the end of last year organisations and to provide further financing to 30% in the middle of this year, it seems for development. The Racing Development apparent that most small businesses which are Fund was burdened with the onerous task of going to make their preparations for Y2K have repaying the debt. done so. In 1991, with thanks to the former Goss In this light, the Government's main Government Treasurer, Keith De Lacy, the priority at the moment in regard to small debt was refinanced through the Queensland business is assisting in contingency planning Treasury Corporation, which allowed the and planning of this nature will, in any event, Racing Development Corporation greater be of assistance to individual small flexibility to provide assistance to the racing businesses. The workbook will be distributed to industry. This allowed for investments like 5232 Ministerial Statement 24 Nov 1999

Super QRIS, which has proven to be a great which is a well-recognised and respected boost to Queensland racing. financial institution in this State. The Bank of By the time the Borbidge Government Queensland board supports the Government's came to office, the debt had been reduced to decision to close the public offer component of $30m. However, the coalition Government the float early. The final price and basis of again allowed debt to grow. I am happy to be share allocations will still be announced on 28 the Racing Minister who will see off this November, with the shares expected to shameful legacy to the Queensland racing commence trading on a deferred settlement industry. basis on 29 November. Queenslanders will be given preference in the allocation of shares through the scaling process. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Bank of Queensland MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Hon. D. J. HAMILL (Ipswich—ALP) (Treasurer) (9.45 a.m.), by leave: Last night, Building and Construction Contracts— the Queensland Government exercised its Structured Training Policy right to close early the public offer component Hon. P. J. BRADDY (Kedron—ALP) of the float of its shareholding in the Bank of (Minister for Employment, Training and Queensland. The option to close the public Industrial Relations) (9.39 a.m.), by leave: On offer early was detailed in the Bank of coming to office in June last year, the Beattie Queensland offer document and follows Government was committed to reinvigorating exceptionally strong demand for the sale of and enhancing the Building and Construction the Government's 40% shareholding in the Contracts—Structured Training Policy, bank. The offer closed at midnight last night. commonly known as the 10% training policy. The early closure applies to that part of the After extensive consultation with unions, retail offer made to members of the Australian employer groups and contractors in the public resident in Australia but excludes the building and construction industry, we are now employee offer and shareholder entitlement delivering on that promise. offer and broker firm offer. These components The Government now will be strictly of the offer will close as scheduled at 5 p.m. monitoring and enforcing building and on Thursday. construction contracts to ensure apprentices, The decision to close the Bank of trainees and cadets contribute 10% of labour Queensland offer early reflects the substantial hours on these contracts. The 10% training take-up of the offer and was made following policy forms an integral part of the advice received from the Government's lead Government's strategy in Breaking the brokers and financial advisers. The offer has Unemployment Cycle and enhancing the skills been heavily oversubscribed and it would have base of this important industry. It will add to been irresponsible to continue to accept the increased numbers of apprentices and applications when there is already a need for a trainees already being supported by the significant scaling back of allocations. The Building and Construction Industry Training State had reserved the right in the offer Fund created by this Government and document dated 8 November 1999 to close sponsored by the industry. This fund alone is any part of the offer early and applicants had expected to help create up to 3,000 jobs over been encouraged to submit their applications three years. as early as possible. Through the revised 10% training policy, While some intending investors may be this Government is now demanding that disappointed, I should point out that the sale contractors on relevant State Government of the Government's stake in the Bank of building and construction projects invest in the Queensland is not an initial public offering in future of the industry by hiring and training that the bank has been listed on the Australian tradespeople. The most significant change to Stock Exchange for many years—indeed, the policy has been its revision to take into some 50 years. This means that investors account particular industry nuances and needs wishing to acquire a stake in the Bank of and methods to ensure compliance and Queensland are still able to purchase shares enforcement. These changes show that the through the stock market, as they have been Government is serious about providing ways to able to do long prior to the sale of the help contractors meet the policy's terms. Queensland Government stake. In consultations with industry, it was The very strong response to the offering revealed that many contractors on smaller reflects positively on the Bank of Queensland, building and construction projects could not 24 Nov 1999 Ministerial Statement 5233 comply with the 10% training policy's original industry. This will mean fewer skill shortages, a terms. To address this concern, the threshold more productive and highly skilled industry, for contracts has increased from $100,000 for and more jobs for Queenslanders. all projects to $250,000 for building projects, and to $500,000 for construction projects. This will ensure that training is provided on projects MINISTERIAL STATEMENT that can sustain the employment of Nursing Recruitment and Retention Task apprentices and trainees. Force As a direct result, it is anticipated that up Hon. W. M. EDMOND (Mount Coot-tha— to 900 additional training opportunities for ALP) (Minister for Health) (9.52 a.m.), by leave: apprentices and trainees will be created over As a result of concerns about shortages of the next three years. These training and job nurses and their high attrition rates and in opportunities will be for people entering the recognition of the crucial contribution that work force as well as for existing employees nurses make to the health system in who will now be able to receive training to Queensland I established the Ministerial ensure their current skills are recognised. Nursing Recruitment and Retention Task The revised 10% training policy represents Force. The aim of the task force was to a major commitment from both the examine and make recommendations on a Government and industry to boost training and more strategic approach to problems facing employment opportunities for building and this substantial group of important health construction workers. The new policy will employees. ensure that contractors who invest in training The report of the task force was released are not disadvantaged by those who publicly yesterday and I would like to take this previously poached trained staff from them. opportunity to inform the House about Strict compliance mechanisms are now in progress on this important issue. The terms of existence to ensure every principal contractor reference for the task force were to— on major State Government building and firstly, undertake a comprehensive review construction projects meets the 10% training of the pre and post registration, requirement. This creates the level playing field education, training and staff development that the industry has sought for some time. needs of nurses to better match work Should the Department of Employment, force needs. Training and Industrial Relations find that a secondly, develop guidelines for the contractor has not met the training management of nursing resources and requirement, the contractor's level on the State workloads; and Government's prequalification criteria will be put at risk. Our commitment to this policy thirdly, promote the introduction of family demonstrates that this Government is serious friendly rostering and management about skills and training and it is serious about practices. compliance. When apprentices and trainees The task force commenced its become fully qualified, they will fill the skills and deliberations in October 1998 and expert labour shortages left when tradespeople retire working groups were formed. This allowed for or move to other industries. Fully qualified focused investigation at the level of detail workers will also enhance workplace efficiency, needed to properly inform the steering which will lower costs for construction firms and committee of the task force. The report found ultimately the community. No matter where there are critical shortages of nurses in building and construction projects are located, specialist areas and some rural and remote contractors will employ apprentices and areas and that the age profile of current trainees, ensuring regional communities can nurses is changing with fewer school leavers access training and employment opportunities choosing nursing as a career. in their local areas. Young people will be able The million dollars allocated this financial to get work in their own communities. year will enable the commencement of a In a further move, the Jobs Policy Council variety of initiatives to address current and has established a working group to coordinate predictable recruitment and retention problems State Government infrastructure programs on in nursing. Rural and remote areas will benefit Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander from the establishment of 30 undergraduate communities. In summary, the Government rural nursing scholarships per annum to assist and industry are united in our commitment to rural nurses to complete their studies. In ensuring the 10% training policy works addition, a rotational system will be trialled in effectively for the building and construction one of Queensland's three health zones to 5234 Ministerial Statement 24 Nov 1999 allow for the exchange of 20 nurses between considered in the overhaul of the existing rural hospitals and tertiary or secondary policy. locations for a program of four weeks' Several other members opposite have supported experience. The findings of the trial rushed to their local newspapers saying what will be used to plan for an ongoing process of the Government should or should not put in its exchange. Nurses currently working in rural new policy. The only problem is that they, too, and remote areas often experience particular have never told me—the one person who isolation in regard to skill development. New could do something about their concerns. Like technology offers opportunities for the support the member for Mooloolah, they have never of these nurses. Funding has been allocated lodged a submission on the new policy. They to develop an interactive multimedia CD-ROM clearly have no ideas and apparently no clinical decision-making system for isolated interest in assisting small business and nurses. creating jobs in Queensland, especially in Extra resources have also been provided regional centres like Charleville, Rockhampton to enhance the services and planning provided or Mount Isa. I am surprised that the member by the nursing unit of the Corporate Office of for Mooloolah has taken such a negative and Queensland Health. This funding will be used carping approach to a draft policy designed to to provide career advice to school students, assist business in regional and remote areas. the recruitment of indigenous nurses and After all, he is the Liberal Party's second most assistance for the existing work force. There remote member—edged out only by the will be a new committee established between member for Noosa. the department and the tertiary sector with the Most revealing yesterday was the aim of providing a better match between member for Mooloolah's blatant plagiarism. He courses and industry needs. Targeted has not even tried to understand the research has been approved to investigate the policy—even after I arranged a briefing for him particular recruitment and retention problems by departmental officers. All he did was cobble experienced by specific districts. In addition, together issues already raised with the the model for recruitment developed by the Government by industry groups such as the task force will be advanced in conjunction with Queensland Chamber of Commerce and health districts. Industry and the Australian Industry Group. Funding has been allocated to examine Those groups and others have been consulted and pilot a range of innovative rostering at length in the process of developing the new practices in six facilities in rural, remote, policy. Over the past few months, they have metropolitan and provincial settings. The expressed their views on all aspects of the outcome of these trials aims to develop more draft policy. flexible and family friendly systems to better Opposition members interjected. meet the needs of the nurses and the health facility. Our response to recruitment and Mr SCHWARTEN: There he goes, Mr retention issues shows this Beattie Labor Speaker—like the thirteenth strike of a Government is prepared to face the deranged cuckoo clock, showing his absurdity challenges and respond to innovations and irrelevance. Whether they are right or suggested by the profession in a positive and wrong or whether I agree or disagree with their sensible manner. views is not at issue here. Opposition members interjected. Mr SCHWARTEN: I note, Mr Speaker, MINISTERIAL STATEMENT that members opposite are not interested in Statewide Purchasing Policy this policy, which will assist regional Hon. R. E. SCHWARTEN (Rockhampton— Queensland. ALP) (Minister for Public Works and Minister for The point I make is that, even if they have Housing) (9.55 a.m.), by leave: Yesterday in criticisms, at least some of those groups have this House the member for Mooloolah proved taken the time to analyse and comment on yet again why the Liberal Party is totally the draft policy. That is more than can be said irrelevant to all but a handful of branch for the member for Mooloolah—the coalition's stackers in Brisbane's western suburbs. The own Helen Demidenko. His so-called analysis member for Mooloolah made all sorts of claims consists of cutting and pasting the views of yesterday about the draft of the new Statewide others and presenting them as his own. I Purchasing Policy. Yet, despite numerous wonder how those organisations feel about the opportunities, he has never once taken the recycling of their material for ammunition in a time to put pen to paper and have his views blatantly political attack. The member for 24 Nov 1999 Ministerial Statement 5235

Mooloolah spent a lot of time pondering the Government that is overhauling it to make it fact that the overhaul of the State Purchasing more responsive to the needs of business. Policy was announced a year ago. The Yesterday we saw yet again an overhaul process has taken longer than Opposition that chooses to sit back, whinge anticipated, largely because of the extensive and contribute nothing positive, as we have consultation involved. I make no apologies for heard this morning. The contrast between a that. can-do Government on this side and a won't Mr Borbidge: You're better off the cuff. try Opposition on the other side has never Mr SCHWARTEN: I am; the Leader of the been more stark. Opposition is right. In that consultation process about 900 MINISTERIAL STATEMENT people have attended 30 public forums held in 15 centres across Queensland. Almost 100 Termites submissions have been received from industry Hon. J. C. SPENCE (Mount Gravatt— groups, Government agencies and individuals. ALP) (Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait They have all had to be assessed and Islander Policy and Minister for Women's considered as part of the overhaul and Policy and Minister for Fair Trading) (10 a.m.), consultation process. All of that takes time to by leave: In recent times the Queensland do properly. Building Services Authority has accelerated its I might repeat that nobody from the pre-emptive work of protecting Queensland Opposition, including the member for householders from the potentially devastating Mooloolah, chose to burden departmental threat of subterranean termites. The problems officers with submissions of their own. It is posed by these termites are serious and worth noting that halfway through this term, widespread. Their power over our lives has the shadow Minister has still not set out one been underlined recently by some high profile policy on any issue to do with the Public Works cases, and the member for Archerfield portfolio—apart from plans to scrap Q-Build, deserves credit for her work for a group of and even they came from the shadow Minister constituents with a termite concern. for Education. There is certainly no coherent Unfortunately, the threat of invasion by policy on Government procurement coming subterranean termites is a fact of life in from the Opposition. Queensland. For that reason, the business of I have always said quite plainly that the termite control and eradication is potentially revised policy will not be the answer to lucrative. Some five years ago, highly toxic and everyone's prayers. I fully expect just as much environmentally damaging organochlorides, criticism of purchasing decisions under the new such as dieldrin and Chlordane, were banned Statewide Purchasing Policy as occurs under from use as the main termite poisons. The the existing one. But if further refinements are new chemicals are less harmful to the needed once the new policy is operational, environment, partly because they are not as then they will be considered. This Government persistent and so should be renewed on a has responded to widespread industry more regular basis. They are just as effective, concerns about the existing policy, which has however, provided they are applied in clearly outlived its usefulness. accordance with the relevant Australian It is worth remembering that the existing Standards. Because the chemicals are State Purchasing Policy had its origins in the expensive, some unscrupulous operators have abused the system to enhance their profit post-Fitzgerald days and was designed to margins and undercut competitors who play by ensure honesty and accountability in the rules. Government purchasing. It was by nature a peremptory policy—peremptory in that its The BSA licenses pre-construction termite weakness was its inflexibility. We would not controllers and is aware of the potential for have needed such a policy if it was not for the unscrupulous practices. As I informed the blatantly corrupt practices that past coalition House in September, the BSA won its first Governments allowed to flourish. That has prosecution against a pest controller in August. been the coalition's only contribution to the Two other prosecutions against that pest development of the policy—being so corrupt controller are under way. The BSA has been that business demanded a policy to ensure concerned that other businesses are honesty and fairness in doing business with becoming as much a pest as the creatures Government. It was a previous Labor they purport to control. Some may be Government that established that policy and knowingly diluting the chemicals to a level brought honesty to the system. It is this Labor where they fail to prevent termite raids or 5236 Ministerial Statement 24 Nov 1999 applying insufficient quantities of chemical to for Queensland consumers to bear in mind is act as an effective barrier to these industrious the need for regular checks on their homes. insects. Whether they live in Kenmore, Cairns or The authority recently began a random Charleville, they should have an inspection by audit of pest controllers, and the results have a reputable pest controller at least once every prompted it to launch three more prosecutions. 12 months. There is no need for unnecessary Members will appreciate that I am not able to alarm or sensationalism regarding this issue. go into the details of cases yet to be finalised. Termites can be controlled if people The licences of a number of supposed pre- understand the risks and take the right construction termite controllers are now under precautions. question. In addition, I have asked the BSA to examine whether licensing should extend to MINISTERIAL STATEMENT post-construction treatment and inspection services, and whether pest controllers should Petrol be required to have professional indemnity Hon. R. J. WELFORD (Everton—ALP) insurance. This in no way indicates that the (Minister for Environment and Heritage and BSA's insurance scheme is failing to help Minister for Natural Resources) (10.06 a.m.), innocent casualties of termite infestations. On by leave: Every Queenslander has the right to the contrary, the Queensland authority's breathe clean air without the fear of pollution insurance scheme is the only home warranty adversely affecting their health or the health of insurance scheme in Australia to provide "no their children. Yet development of our cities fault" cover for termite damage. inevitably puts pressure on air quality and the The member for Noosa exposed his own comparative advantage in international terms flimsy understanding of the situation when he of our wonderful clean air environment here in raised the insurance issue in the House on 10 south-east Queensland. One has only to visit November. He completely missed the Sydney or Melbourne to see and smell the point—the point being that insurance coverage impact of pollution on those environments. for termites has improved since 1994. Here in Queensland our major cities have Householders who have built since December been largely free of such air pollution, and our 1994 now have the most comprehensive Government is placing a priority on maintaining protection in the nation. "No fault" insurance our high air quality. cover means that the owner is covered even Today I am delighted to announce a though builder negligence cannot be proved. landmark agreement between the Beattie Only those few home owners with policies prior Labor Government and the oil industry on to December 1994—policies that expire in the more environmentally friendly petrol to be next 18 months—are still covered only where available for south-east Queensland fuel builder negligence can be proven. I might also consumers during the summer months this add that the old organochloride poisons were year. This agreement with petroleum refiners, still being used when the homes covered by importers and distributors will see a reduction these policies were built. That is why the BSA in the vapour pressure of petrol. This means made a one-word adjustment to its web cleaner petrol and less air pollution. On hot site—because things have gotten better. summer days, it is the pollutants from petrol In seeking to score a cheap political point vapour which are the primary contributor to without doing the research, the member for smog across our city. Noosa shone the spotlight on the superiority of This agreement with the oil industry the BSA home warranty scheme. The warranty ensures that petrol with a lower vapour scheme is in good shape. It is in no way pressure will be supplied throughout south- jeopardised by claims for termite damage. Of east Queensland from 15 November to 15 the 9,500 disputes notified to the BSA in the March every year. The immediate effect this past two years, only 245 involved termites. summer of this extended period will be to About half of these disputes were settled by improve air quality and reduce the potential for the contractors, so consumers did not need to photochemical smog. Significantly, this means tap into the insurance scheme. The scheme that the vapour pressure of petrol supplied in has been designed by actuaries so that most south-east Queensland does not exceed 76 of the risk exposure is re-insured. kilopascals. Queensland home owners covered by the The Government, through the scheme need have no concern whatsoever Environmental Protection Agency, has also that it is about to run out of money or that the established some longer term goals. This BSA will resist legitimate claims. The vital thing includes a further reduction in vapour pressure 24 Nov 1999 Private Members' Statements 5237 to 67 kilopascals in 2002-03, and a longer paid or unpaid—in an environment term aim of 62 kilopascals. This agreement, involving children where that person has— which involves all petroleum refiners, importers ¥ been convicted of a physical or and distributors involved in the oil industry in sexual offence against a child; or south-east Queensland, will be sealed with a memorandum of agreement. The signatories ¥ where someone has received a court will be our two local refiners—BP and ordered prohibition." Caltex—and the importers and distributors: Shell, Mobil, Fletcher Challenge Fuels, Burmah PRIVATE MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Fuels and Neumann's Petroleum. Each will Roma Street Redevelopment supply reduced volatility petrol during the summer months for the specific purpose of Dr WATSON (Moggill—LP) (Leader of the protecting and improving regional air quality in Liberal Party) (10.01 a.m.): The much south-east Queensland. publicised collapse of the APEC Technomart III earlier this month on the Gold Coast This is an important component of our underscores the dangers of relying on Government's long-term strategy to improve air unsubstantiated Government assurances quality, particularly in south-east Queensland. when taxpayers' money is at stake. That is why It will have no effect on the performance of I called on the Premier last week to release the motor vehicles, but it will result in a reduction of memorandum of understanding between the about 3,000 tonnes per year in the emissions Government and the Washington-based of organic compounds which contribute to Smithsonian Institution planned for the smog. In addition, the Australian oil industry redevelopment of the Roma Street site. Whilst has committed to progressively supply I acknowledge that the MOU is the first step upgraded fuels needed for motor vehicle towards the establishment of a multimillion- engines designed to European emission dollar reef and rainforest education centre, standards. These will be progressively which the Premier had described as an "icon introduced between now and 2006. All new attraction" of the Roma Street redevelopment, vehicles will have to meet these standards, we want to see the detail. which specify better environmental Technomart sounded great, too. But the performance through reduced emissions. The whole show folded in two days and lost at least environmental benefits will accumulate $2m in public and private money. The cost of dramatically as more of these better establishing and operating a world-class environmental performance vehicles penetrate research and public education facility is the vehicle fleet. By contrast, the benefit of astronomical. One would assume that an improvements to fuel quality by lowering the attraction such as the Smithsonian Institution summer vapour pressure will be seen would need hundreds of thousands of paying immediately. visitors just to break even, and that is going to I would like to thank the refiners, importers be a very big ask for an attraction of this kind. I and distributors for the cooperative approach am still to be convinced that interstate and that they have taken to improving our air international visitors will want to look at virtual quality for south-east Queensland. This or artificial reefs and rainforests in Brisbane initiative shows the significant steps forward when they can see the real thing further up the being taken by our Government and the coast. Environmental Protection Agency through a The Premier has already committed solutions approach and partnerships with $250,000 to examine the possibility of industry to improve the quality of environment collaborative research arrangements with the for all Queenslanders. prestigious US institution. However, he has failed to indicate the total cost of this high- tech, interactive education centre. I would NOTICE OF MOTION envisage that this centre could well cost tens Persons Convicted of Offences Against of millions of dollars. Trying to pick winners is a Children risky business at the best of times, and the Technomart fiasco did nothing to inspire Mr SPRINGBORG (Warwick—NPA) confidence in this Government's judgment. (Deputy Leader of the Opposition) The Premier has already acknowledged (10.10 a.m.): I give notice that I will move— that the MOU is no big deal, so he should "That this Parliament supports have no problem in releasing it for public making it a criminal offence, punishable scrutiny. The people of Queensland are by a maximum five years imprisonment, entitled to know who is bearing the risk, who is for anyone to seek or accept a position— picking up the bill and who is pocketing the 5238 Private Members' Statements 24 Nov 1999 proceeds. They are entitled to know the extent Police Resources of their exposure under this MOU. Mr HORAN (Toowoomba South—NPA) (10.06 a.m.): In 18 short months the Beattie Seton College Labor Government has already squandered the legacy left by the coalition Government of Mr REEVES (Mansfield—ALP) a massive recruitment program for the (10.03 a.m.): I rise today to speak about Seton Queensland Police Service and a downward College in my electorate. Seton College is a trend over two years of the coalition Catholic co-educational high school that has a Government in reported offences against the maximum enrolment of 210 students. Seton person and offences against property. The caters for young people at all levels of ability, recent release of the Queensland Police although their emphasis is with students with special needs. The more advanced are given Service statistics clearly shows that the consideration by being placed in accelerated downward trend that existed for two years progress of learning. Young people who have under the coalition Government has been fallen behind in primary years and whose reversed. In fact, we have a 5% increase in difficulties constantly impair their efforts to reported crime across the State led by the learn and make progress are given particular Sunshine Coast, with a 20% increase. The emphasis. Smaller classes allow students to Sunshine Coast has been so sadly neglected develop in confidence and gain skills for future by the Beattie Labor Government, particularly study and training in post-compulsory with the number of police assigned there. education. What are they doing about it? Despite the Last Friday I had the pleasure of massive recruitment program that we put in attending the last school assembly for their place, they have cut by 114 the number of very first Year 12 class. The school has a long recruits going through the police academies in history but until 1998 went only to Year 10. I Queensland this year, in a year in which they had much pleasure in giving the inaugural Phil report a 5% increase in crime. The clear-up Reeves Trophy for consistent effort and rates were 27.5% last year. They are only cooperation to Tim Pascoe. Remarkably, Tim 27.8% this year. What are they doing with the has been going to Seton College for five years hundreds and hundreds of extra police who and has never missed a day's school. The have been recruited and who have graduated graduation class of six, including Tim, were and who are out there in service? There has Robert Casey, Matthew Jarvis, Emma been a paltry 4% increase in the State Budget McMurtrie, Tim Pascoe, Brett Simpson and compared to the over 8% increase by the Suzanne Sykes. coalition Government in the previous Budget. The assembly, being the last of the full That is not all there is. Not only has there school, was also used to pay tribute to Rudy been a 4% increase for police—one of the Goosen, their departing principal. In five years, most important and core aspects of Rudy has transformed the school in not only Government business—but there has been a an operational sense but also the entire 41% increase in the budget for the Premier physical structure. To put it bluntly, five years and a 61% increase in the budget for the ago the school looked like a leftover from a Deputy Premier. We are seeing the war zone. Now there is a first-class learning Queensland Police Service put way down the centre. The drive, skills and motivation of bottom of the list when it comes to priorities in Rudy, alongside the P & F and staff, have Queensland. The facts and the figures speak totally changed the school for the better. for themselves. The legacy left behind by the I had great delight in informing Rudy of coalition Government has been squandered. the funding approved for the first stage of the The target set by this Minister for Police and project, the home economic centre announced Corrective Services for increases in safety and last week. Now Rudy can leave the school with clear-up rates are exactly the same as the year the knowledge that his dream has come to before. He is not prepared to seek reality. Rudy, I am happy to say, is going to my improvement. old school, Clairvaux McKillop College in the Time expired. Mount Gravatt electorate. I am sure he will be an asset for the college after taking over from the long-serving principal who is retiring, Pat Nursing Home Places Condon. The Seton community should all be Ms STRUTHERS (Archerfield—ALP) very proud of what they have achieved, (10.07 a.m.): Members of this House with particularly the young people who graduated elderly parents would probably know how on Friday and their families. difficult it is to find a suitable placement in a 24 Nov 1999 Private Members' Statements 5239 residential aged care facility if the need arises. teams in Caloundra City. Jim Case, the The Commonwealth Department of Health and Caloundra City SES controller, deserves Aged Care has the main responsibility for special mention, as does Ann Booth, a funding placements in residential aged care. prominent unit training officer and deputy The Federal Government works to a very tight group leader; deputy controller Richard Eley; funding ratio. Frankly, their funding target does group leader Lloyd Larney; group leader Janet not hit the mark. It falls well short of demand. Scott; Jim Jones, group leader for the area; The Federal Government funds 100 places per and Graham Cheal, whose group also 1,000 people aged 70 years and over. This is contributed. The searchers came from made up of 40 high-level nursing home Kawana, Caloundra, Maleny, Beerwah and places, 50 low-level care/hostel-level and 10 Glass House. Unfortunately, Sunshine Coast community-based places. members of Parliament were not invited to the Forest Place Nursing Home in my awards given to those deserving people on electorate provides an excellent standard of Tuesday, 9 November at Parliament House by supported living for seniors. It receives Federal the Emergency Services Minister, Merri Rose. funding for 25 places but has cut its waiting Surely a bipartisan approach was the way to lists now to 70. It cannot go beyond that, go, not indulge in politicking! because it will already take many years to get There will be a major barbecue in our through that waiting list. I want to commend Mr hinterland this week to honour those very Clive Penfold, a Forest Place resident, for his deserving local people. They deserve a good persistence and initiative. After having day, and our community most certainly salutes prolonged difficulty finding a place for his frail and congratulates them on the work that they wife, he has now rallied to draw further public do. These volunteers are always looking after attention to this major gap in Federal service the people of our community and often putting provision. themselves at risk for us. The State's Minister for Health, Wendy Edmond, has been lobbying hard to the Mr T. McMurtrie Federal Government on the matter. I will be doing my bit to call the Federal Government to Mrs LAVARCH (Kurwongbah—ALP) task on this area of need. It is appalling that (10.21 a.m.): This morning I am delighted to the Federal Government boasts a $5 billion inform honourable members of the remarkable surplus when so many people do not have a achievements of a young 19 year old man with decent roof over their head and adequate a big future. Tom McMurtrie is intellectually support. disabled but is a very talented athlete. On 2 October this year, at the Sporting Wheelies and Disabled Association Queensland Games Sunshine Coast SES 1999 State Athletic Championships, he broke Mrs SHELDON (Caloundra—LP) existing records and now holds the (10.19 a.m.): Today I would like to pay tribute Queensland record for the under-20 100 to the members of the Sunshine Coast SES metres at a remarkable 12.74 seconds, the teams who participated in the recent search for under-20 shot-put, the under-20 long jump, the body of young Sunshine Coast girl Jessica the open long jump and the under-20 high Gowdie within our Kenilworth forest. That jump. young lass has allegedly been murdered. Over These magnificent achievements secured 750 hectares of rough and often impenetrable Tom a place in the Queensland team to bush and creek were covered by our 400 men compete at the recent 1999 Southern Cross and women, often working in extreme heat Multidisability Championships (Athletics) at the and conditions. In all, 5,256 person-hours were Olympic stadium at Homebush in Sydney. worked. I believe that was one of the biggest Competitors from 56 countries attended those searches ever undertaken, and it occurred games. I understand that they were well over approximately four weeks. The SES attended by the public, and from all reports the volunteers were asked to be involved by atmosphere was electric. Tom came home members of the Police Service, who had triumphant, winning six medals: a gold for the themselves done a wonderful job in difficult 4 x 400-metre relay; silver medals for the shot- circumstances. Teams from as far away as put, the 200 metres, the long jump and the Hervey Bay and Redcliffe were involved, but 100 metres; and a bronze medal in the 800 the majority of personnel came from the metres. Sunshine Coast teams. Tom's very proud parents, Jan and Darcy, I would like to pay particular tribute to are well known to me, and I know how much members within the confines of the SES time and effort they devote to Tom so that he 5240 Private Members' Statements 24 Nov 1999 can reach his full potential. But Jan and Darcy tick eradication program. With continuing are pensioners, and they struggle financially to delays, the result is that there are now fewer meet the costs of day-to-day living, let alone chemicals to effectively kill the ticks and more the costs of getting Tom to competitions. resistant strains of ticks. Therefore, we need to It is my understanding that there is pursue and eradicate this very costly pest while funding for disability sports associations but there are some effective chemicals that still not for individuals. I would be interested to work. I have not yet heard of any new hear from the Minister for Sport whether this is chemicals being developed. the case and, if it is, whether there is any In consultation with officers from the DPI, scope to widen the availability of funding. The property owners in those areas have been reason I ask this is that Tom's parents found canvassed within a defined area adjoining the themselves in the situation in which, for Tom to current tick protection area, and support for the compete at the Southern Cross scheme is shown to be approximately 90%. championships, he needed a new pair of There are 94 producers at Moffatdale and 90 running shoes, but they cost $180, the club at Coolabunia, and 100% of those producers had no funding, and the money was beyond are ready to start. Those concerned need an their means. Upon learning of this, I did not early consideration from the Minister for the hesitate to provide that funding for him. proposed program so that treatment can Time expired. commence now. Time expired. Tick Eradication Mrs PRATT (Barambah—ONP) Port of Brisbane Motorway Project (10.23 a.m.): Tick eradication is a major factor Mr LUCAS (Lytton—ALP) (10.25 a.m.): in protecting our beef export market. Our live Today I want to tell the Parliament about a export market for 1998-99 amounted to very important announcement last Saturday in $344m. All export beef needs to be free of my local area by the Premier, the Deputy organochlorine and endosulfan residue. A Prime Minister, the Minister for State threat to this million-dollar market is something Development and the Minister for Transport, that we cannot afford. An average of 4,000 that is, the announcement of the $111m head of cattle per month pass through the State/federally funded port motorway project. Wondai clearing dip, with an average of three That project, which is funded 60% by the State dippings and two weeks held in yards. of Queensland and its various instrumentalities Members can imagine the expense for those and 40% by the Federal Government, will bring using that system. many benefits not only to the State of Tick chemical residue is threatening our Queensland but also to Brisbane and to the viability, with a recent reported incident of the residents of my bayside electorate. issuing of a recall notice by the US Food The port of Brisbane is one of the most Safety and Inspection Service for the dynamic ports in Australia. Twenty million contaminated Australian beef that was sent to tonnes of produce were imported and the United States of America. More extensive exported through that port last year. It has testing of our beef is proposed by the US and many dynamic and important projects, but the other markets since the US chemical scare. problem was the lack of a road connecting that Australia is continually searching for new dynamic, growing area through which we are markets and, with the China opportunity, there doing much of the business of this State. The exists a demand for strict compliance with Australia TradeCoast initiative is a very fine Chinese requirements. Those in initiative of the Beattie Labor Government communication with the Chinese have stated which has the potential for creating 30,000 that cattle are sourced from tick-free areas. jobs in this State. This is part of that initiative. There is a huge market available, and with the Also, the residents of my local area are existence of a willingness by producers to be big winners out of the project. At present, involved in tick eradication, the only obstacle is travel along Lytton Road to the Gateway Government approval. I ask the Minister for Motorway is dangerous. It is a four-lane road, new area approval and a further tightening of without any separation, on which people who regulations to complete areas already in are driving their cars to and from work are progress. mixing with B-doubles and large trucks. That The property owners in the will be a thing of the past under the port road. Booie/Wattlecamp, Coolabunia and Also, the time delays of up to 30 minutes at Moffatdale areas wish to implement a cattle the bottleneck before getting onto the 24 Nov 1999 Questions Without Notice 5241

Gateway Motorway bridge in the mornings will released. I do urge the Minister to expedite the be eliminated. discussion paper and the review of the Mobile Not only is $111m being spent in my local Homes Act, as pensioner owners of area, but 800 direct construction jobs will be relocatable homes are deeply concerned created and there will be a duplication of about their financial future. It really is a very Lytton Road between the bridge at Bulimba serious situation for pensioner owners of Creek and the Gateway Motorway. That is a relocatable homes in my electorate and in second bonus. As well, this Minister many other areas. They are anxious to see a understands the importance of environmental rental structure that is fair and reasonable for improvement, and the wetlands at Bulimba home owners, not just beneficial for park Creek will be improved and modified back to proprietors. their natural state, together with the road being Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time allotted for elevated over that part. private members' statements has expired. I am pleased that the Main Roads Department will be working with the Hemmant QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE community to minimise the impact on them. This is an important Labor initiative, and I want Criminal Justice Commission Investigation; Mr J. Leggate to give full credit to the Transport Minister, Mr Bredhauer, for supporting the project from day Mr BORBIDGE (10.30 a.m.): In directing a one in the Ministry. question to the Minister for Mines and Energy, I refer to the Criminal Justice Commission investigation into a potentially corrupt Burleigh Town Village Mobile Home Park appointment process where a well-known Mrs GAMIN (Burleigh—NPA) whistleblower was denied employment in the (10.27 a.m.): I have had many contacts from Minister's department after passing the residents of a mobile home park in the selection process. I ask: does the Minister Burleigh electorate expressing concern about stand by his justification for denying this job to the level of site fees. At Burleigh Town Village, Jim Leggate on the basis of an organisational an agreement was reached some years ago restructure? between relocatable home owners—who do Mr McGRADY: As the Leader of the not, of course, own the land on which their Opposition would know, it is not the houses sit—and the park proprietor. This prerogative of the Minister to make includes an annual increase of 5% or the appointments at that level. I also remind the increase in the CPI, whichever is the greater. Leader of the Opposition that this is a matter The CPI has been quite low for several years, which, I understand, is before the CJC. I think so the 5% applies. The annual 5% rent we should wait until the CJC completes its increase has caused site rentals to more than deliberations. double over the past 10 years, and the site fee is now $91.17. For a pensioner resident, rent assistance is $37.80 per week. So the net Power Industry Contracts payment works out at $53.37 per week—a fair Mr BORBIDGE: I direct a further question chunk out of the Social Security benefit to the Minister for Mines and Energy. I refer to received by those residents. the response of his fellow power industry shareholding Minister, the Treasurer, during Each year when the site fee has been the Estimates hearings when he was asked increased, rent assistance has also been what risks were associated with take-or-pay increased. However, Social Security has Chevron Gas contracts undertaken by Energex informed single pensioners that $37.80 is the and Ergon. He said— maximum amount of rent assistance for a single person and there will be no more "I think it is impossible to say just increases. The site rent increase of 5% each what are the risks. All I can say is that year from now on will have to be met out of there are many of them." the pension. Pensioner couples are a little I ask the Minister: can he explain to this House better off, as they have only one rental the scale of risks to public moneys associated account and one electricity account, etc., to with these contracts? pay out of the two pensions. Mr McGRADY: I stand by the comments The Minister for Fair Trading has recently made yesterday in the Chamber by the advised me that key concerns by residents of Treasurer. I would also say that due diligence mobile home parks are now being assessed has been conducted on all these projects. Let and a revised discussion paper will be me also say this: when the coalition came to 5242 Questions Without Notice 24 Nov 1999 office, one of the first things those opposite did held a Community Cabinet meeting in was to scrap Eastlink— Kingaroy the weekend before last, and I am Opposition members: Oh! delighted to say that it was another resounding success. Queenslanders have responded very Mr McGRADY: All right, Opposition well to this style of inclusive Government. Once members can say that it is old hat, but it is a again, members of the community took the fact of life because, as a direct result of the opportunity to meet with Ministers and scrapping of Eastlink, the Government of the directors-general to discuss important local day was forced into a situation where it had to issues. run around and start encouraging people to build peaking plant. As I have said before in The forum was such a success that even this Parliament, peaking plant is very Sir Joh and Lady Flo attended to congratulate expensive. Some of the problems we have this Government on a job well done. The today are a direct result of the scrapping of our former leader of a conservative Government, proposal to build Eastlink. Those opposite in National Party heartland, recognised that know quite well that, in Opposition, they this Government does not play petty politics mounted a massive— when it comes to delivering a better Queensland for Queenslanders. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. The question to the Minister related to the The honourable member for Barambah admitted risks in regard to the Ergon and was also full of praise. She said that this Labor Energex contracts and asked the Minister to Government has listened to the concerns of detail those risks to the Parliament. the people and put confidence back into the South Burnett business community. The Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the honourable member also said that she did not Opposition is well aware that a Minister has the receive any negative feedback and that the prerogative as to how he answers a question. Community Cabinet meeting was "wonderful" If the Leader of the Opposition stands again, I for the area. Mrs Pratt went on to say that we will call it a frivolous objection. have dispelled allegations that this Mr McGRADY: As I was saying before— Government would ignore traditionally Mr Veivers: It's got to be relevant to the conservative areas. I thank her for her kind question. remarks. Mr McGRADY: It is relevant, because Mr Mackenroth interjected. what the coalition did was abolish Eastlink. In Mr BEATTIE: Absolutely. All Opposition Opposition, those opposite made great play of members are writing and saying, "Can we the folly of this Government's decision to go please have a Community Cabinet meeting?" ahead with the interconnector. The coalition Mr Springborg interjected. came to office, scrapped the scheme, and within a few short months it brought in Mr BEATTIE: Don't you worry about that; Westlink. As a result of that, the coalition put in due course we will get around to doing all of this State in a perilous position. The coalition those. was then forced to go ahead and encourage Mr Mackenroth: The member for Warwick the building of peaking plant. As I have said suggested having one in his area. before in this Parliament, the coalition put a millstone of almost half a billion dollars around Mr BEATTIE: We have not had one for all the necks of electricity consumers. They are the good people in Warwick or Goondiwindi. the facts of life, whether those opposite like it As I said, don't worry about that; we will get to or not. every one of them. Last week, my colleague the Minister for Families, Youth and Community Care and I Community Cabinet Meeting, Kingaroy were involved in an on-line chat with some Mr SULLIVAN: I refer the Premier to his young people about issues affecting youth. commitment to govern for all Queenslanders, The chat was part of the launch of a new and I ask: what was the reaction to the recent website for young people where they can Community Cabinet meeting in Kingaroy? access information about available services. It Mr BEATTIE: The reaction was very, very is also a place where they can go to seek good. As the honourable member indicated, advice. This is the Government using the latest this Government is a Government for all in information technology to help youth via a people. My Government is a Government for medium that is familiar to them. all Queenslanders, no matter where they live Once again, it is about delivering for or how they vote. As members are aware, we Queenslanders—young and old, the regions, 24 Nov 1999 Questions Without Notice 5243 the bush and the city. It is yet more proof of That has resulted in the opportunity of Labor's commitment to Queensland. We will developing 1,000 hectares of prime land as a find avenues in which we can communicate global trading capital. Over the past 12 months with and listen to Queenslanders regardless of alone, Australia TradeCoast has secured major their age, regardless of where they live and project commitments worth more than $610m. regardless of how they vote. Queenslanders Inquiries for industrial land are running at want to see a responsive Government—a record levels, with nearly 120 companies Government that is listening to them. This was expressing interest in relocating to the the commitment I gave to Peter Wellington Australia TradeCoast area around the port of before we formed Government. It is a Brisbane. The only problem with the superb commitment which we have honoured. road, sea, air and rail routes to Australia Before Christmas, we will have had 21 TradeCoast is the link between the port of Community Cabinet meetings. I am happy to Brisbane and the Gateway Motorway. Now say to the member for Nicklin that we delivered that bottleneck is being replaced by a new on the commitment we gave him. road. On Saturday the Minister for Transport, Steve Bredhauer, the Deputy Premier, Jim Powerlink Queensland Elder, the Deputy Prime Minister and I Mr ROWELL: I refer the Minister for Mines unveiled plans for a $111m port of Brisbane and Energy to the Powerlink Queensland motorway that will lead directly to jobs, jobs, 1998-99 statement of corporate intent which jobs for Queenslanders at Australia indicates that the board was considering TradeCoast. It means that there is nothing to leasing Queensland's $1.4 billion high voltage hold back the development of that major area transmission assets, and I ask: was this cross- that we are calling Australia TradeCoast. The border lease finalised? If not, is it still planned? building of that road is the result of a partnership between the State Government, Mr McGRADY: I take this opportunity to the Federal Government and the Port of invite the honourable member to come and Brisbane Corporation, with the Federal have a briefing on how the electricity industry Government contributing 40% of the cost. It works and how a Government owned means that we can build on the highly corporation works. What happens is that one successful cooperation of the four partners in appoints a board, and the board makes the Australia TradeCoast project and on the certain decisions. At one stage, a Minister is good working relationship between the accused of interfering with the routine Brisbane City Council and the State decisions of the board. At other times, those Government under the Capital City Policy. With opposite expect the Minister to know all the its contribution, the Federal Government has details. Let me say this: Powerlink is a State recognised the economic benefits that flow monopoly, and Powerlink will remain in that from an efficient and effective import/export position. logistics chain. Currently 8,000 people are employed at Australia TradeCoast the port facilities and in other operations linked to the port. Based on estimates that each 1% Mr PURCELL: I refer the Premier to the increase in container traffic growth generates failure of the previous Government to do 50 jobs in south-east Queensland, the current anything in relation to marketing the land at rates of growth in container traffic could the mouth of the Brisbane River and the generate an additional 250 jobs a year. By Premier's announcement earlier this year that 2005 that increase in the port activities will add his Government has succeeded in creating approximately $870m to the economy of the Australia TradeCoast, and I ask: can the region. Its contribution to household income Premier tell this House what his Government will rise to more than $200 a year. Its has done since then to develop this land? contribution to employment will increase to Mr BEATTIE: I have further good news 9,500 jobs. At the Brisbane Airport, 16,400 about this Government's initiative in bringing people earn their living directly from its together the Port of Brisbane Corporation, the operation and a further 67,200 indirectly. The Brisbane Airport Corporation, the Brisbane City Brisbane Airport Corporation estimates that by Council and the State Government to join with 2018 that will jump to 42,000 direct jobs and us in creating the Australia TradeCoast. That is about 200,000 indirect jobs. Previous historic. It is an area of 1,000 hectares. That is Governments did nothing about that. There unprecedented. After 10 years of inactivity, we were four reports over 10 years and it took us fixed it. less than— 5244 Questions Without Notice 24 Nov 1999

Mr SLACK: I rise to a point of order. I find Mr McGRADY: At that time he was the those comments personally offensive. I ask acting leader of the coalition. I have to ask: the member to withdraw. who is speaking for the coalition? Are Mr BEATTIE: The coalition did nothing members opposite betraying the people of the about that. We fixed it. South Burnett? The answer to the question is quite clear: nothing will happen that will in any Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will way have any adverse impact on the water resume his seat. supply to Brisbane.

Wivenhoe Power Station Birkdale Greenhouse Dr WATSON: I refer the Minister for Mines Mr FENLON: I ask the Minister for State and Energy to the Premier's announcement of Development and Minister for Trade: can he a 700-megawatt gas-fired power station at outline any technological developments in Wivenhoe. I ask: can the Minister confirm that Queensland's horticultural industry? the water from Lake Wivenhoe will be pumped Mr ELDER: One element that this through the power station as a coolant and Government is concentrating on very closely is then back into Brisbane's water supply? Can the use of new technology to promote actively the Minister confirm that that will raise the our traditional industries so that they can be temperature of the lake? Can the Minister world competitive. Recently I had the pleasure inform the House of the environmental impact of opening the Birkdale Greenhouse. Birkdale of that warming? Can the Minister confirm that is in the electorates of the member for the long-term impact of that heat pollution will Capalaba and the member for Cleveland, but inevitably degrade the quality of the lake and this greenhouse is at the Gatton campus of Brisbane's drinking water? the University of Queensland. It will open the way for the State to capitalise on the growing Mr McGRADY: I think someone should Australian native cut flower export market. That ask: can the Minister walk on water? There is an indication of the diversity of our work and was a despicable display by the Liberal Party how closely we work with other portfolios. leading up to the announcement of the Tarong Power Station project. A person who The venture is a collaboration between was seeking the highest office in this city, the University of Queensland and some of my together with prominent members of the local Redland Shire constituents, James and Liberal Party, launched a campaign to try to Barbara McGeoch, the owners of the Birkdale stop the Government ploughing $1 billion— Nursery. The Birkdale Greenhouse was designed to develop the koala fern, which last Mr Borbidge: Just answer the question; May won a new plant gold medal at the give us the assurance. prestigious Floralies Internationales de Nantes Mr McGRADY: I will answer the question Exhibition in France. In 1998 Australia's the way I want to. It was a campaign to try to exports of native cut flowers were worth $34m, stop the Government ploughing $1 billion into with Western Australia accounting for most of one of the most depressed areas of this State. the total. However, at this time only a limited As I mentioned yesterday, before any final number of species can be exported because approval will be given to this power station, of difficulties in propagating the species on a there will be a full public EIS and all the other commercial scale. Worldwide the export of environmental requirements will be met. I flowers is worth billions of dollars. In the light of made that perfectly clear in the Parliament that new, exciting development at the Gatton yesterday. I stated that if the proposed gas campus, we see job opportunities in the native power station was in any way detrimental to cut flowers sector. the water supply of the people of Brisbane, it The work of the Birkdale Nursery and the would not proceed. I cannot be clearer. I University of Queensland has already led to cannot say it any differently from that. their recognition as being among the nation's All I would say is that I think it is a leaders. On two other occasions they have disgrace that a person who was seeking had to step in to the breach to help other political office in the City of Brisbane should groups that have failed to perform. The first attempt to destroy a project in one of the most related to propagation of the flannel flower for depressed parts of regional Queensland. The the Centenary of Federation celebration. That answer is perfectly clear. was a venture between a New South Wales university and a private company. They could Mr Bredhauer: Aided and abetted by the not fulfil the orders. They came to the Birkdale Leader of the Liberal Party. Nursery to do it and they have done it. They 24 Nov 1999 Questions Without Notice 5245 have already successfully propagated the hardwood resources from State forests and flower. timber reserves. Recently, DPI Forestry On the second occasion, in conjunction finalised the wood supply model for the year with the Department of Primary Industries, it 2000 and is continuing to work on determining commercially produced the wollemi pine. That future wood flows. Issues such as traditional is a prehistoric plant that goes back to the access to specific areas, salvage operations, dinosaur era. Only 31 plants are known to species mix and size will be addressed by DPI exist. Forestry in a consultative process with the timber industry—hence with Mr Torrens. Mr Gibbs: Like the Leader of the Representatives of the Department of Primary Opposition. Industries Forestry have been liaising with this Mr ELDER: It is a bit like the Leader of man to determine timber supply schedules, the Opposition. I am not sure that we can which is important. It is what he wants and propagate him. what he needs. Once again, Birkdale's involvement saved Furthermore, the Department of State the southern groups. It has been able to Development has a network of State propagate the wollemi pine. The commercial Development Centres employing officers with reality is unlimited export and commercial appropriate skills who will work with contractors opportunities and jobs for Queenslanders. to help and advise regarding specific impacts and business operations—which, again, is what Mr Torrens wants to know. One of these Regional Forest Agreement; Mr L. Torrens officers will be contacting Mr Torrens in the Mr FELDMAN: In directing a question to near future to discuss issues affecting his the Premier, I remind him that some five business and to explore opportunities to link weeks ago I highlighted the plight of Mr Les his company to assistance programs that may Torrens, a small businessman who supplies enable it to reposition its operations in view of bridge girders to the Department of Main the SEQRFA announcement. However, any Roads, local councils and Queensland Rail. At possible changes faced by contractors must that time a letter had already been sent to the be considered in light of the high level of Honourable the Minister for State uncertainty faced by the entire timber industry Development and Minister for Trade, which prior to this Queensland Government's plan was shunted off at express speed to DPI being signed. That is what they had. We have Forestry, but it did not know how to respond now given them more security than they have except to say that it got the letter. Mr Torrens ever had before. has come to my office in sheer frustration to I make the point that, in terms of Mr advise me that he currently has orders for 108 Torrens, he never had the security that he has girders and indications for some 200 more now under this arrangement. So what I am over the next 12 months, but under his permit really saying is, in specifically answering— he has access to only approximately 50 trees. I ask: when will the Premier's Government Mr Hobbs interjected. make a decision about cases like that so that Mr BEATTIE: Can those guys opposite people such as Mr Torrens can be granted an have at least a bit of decency? It is not their equitable timber allocation for his business or question; it is the question asked by the be compensated for his business loss? member for Caboolture. So can the members Mr BEATTIE: I thank the honourable opposite let me answer it? member for his question. As members know, Mr Littleproud: It's your answer we're the South East Queensland Regional Forest worried about. Agreement will result in an unprecedented 25- Mr BEATTIE: That is all right. If the year guarantee of Crown native hardwood members opposite were not rude, I would supply at current levels, which was the security have finished by now. that we provided and which is the hallmark of that agreement. Without it, the regions The bottom line is that Mr Torrens is not a involved, including the area that the member miller; he is a contractor and we are working to represents, would not have the security that find the timber for him, and we will continue to they have today. Consequently, one of the do that. greatest causes of risk to the Queensland Opposition members interjected. timber industry has now been removed. Mr BEATTIE: The members opposite As the member knows, Mr Torrens is a should give the member a go. It is a genuine contractor based at Kilcoy. He is seeking question. The members opposite should leave information regarding the availability of the member alone. 5246 Questions Without Notice 24 Nov 1999

Opposition members interjected. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. Mr BEATTIE: That is typical. The The Treasurer is misleading the House. It is a members opposite sit and snipe all day. I give matter of public record that Eastlink would not a detailed answer, a specific response, to the have been built on time. The fact is that the question asked by the honourable member for actions taken by the previous coalition Caboolture, yet what do the members Government kept the lights on in Queensland. opposite do? They snipe all day! It is little Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of wonder that the people out there think that order. The Leader of the Opposition will have they are a pack of dills. the time to debate this in a motion if he The bottom line is that Mr Torrens is a wishes. contractor. We will work with him to try to Mr HAMILL: But there is more. They then provide the supply that he wants. went through a megawatt bidding process and decided to opt for some peaking power using avgas. Anyone who would do that would have Queensland Power Trading Corporation to be on rocket fuel themselves. They pushed Mr MULHERIN: I refer the Treasurer to aside Callide C, they pushed aside Tarong and media reports that the Queensland Power incurred take-or-pay contracts, which is really Trading Corporation holds a portfolio of power an albatross around the neck of Queensland purchase agreements worth approximately a power consumers. These contracts occurred at negative $500m, and I ask: will the Treasurer a time when power prices were coming down. confirm this figure? How did this Government They could have had Tarong, they could have owned corporation come to enter into such had Callide, but no, no, no, they had avgas. unfavourable contracts? Now those plants, which hardly ever run at Mr HAMILL: I am pleased the member for all, have contracts on foot for 10 and 15 years, Mackay, who has a longstanding interest in all thanks to the same Leader of the the electricity industry, has asked this question. Opposition who would do or say anything just Yes, I can confirm the half a billion dollars to try to get his way and get himself into negative NPV of the power purchasing power. Every time people turn on the switch, agreements held by the Power Trading they will remember the member for Surfers Corporation. The story as to how these Paradise. contracts came about is a bit like a fairy story. It is worthy of the Brothers Grimm. Of course, Wivenhoe Dam Gas-fired Electricity the only trouble is that it is not a fairy story. Generating Units Once upon a time, there was a Leader of Mr LESTER: I refer the Minister for the Opposition in this State who, regardless of Environment and Heritage and Minister for the cost, would say or do anything just to try to Natural Resources to his Government's get his hands on the reins of power. So it seeming preference to support the came to pass back in 1995 that there was a development of two gas-fired electricity project around called Eastlink, which was generating units at Wivenhoe Dam, the about delivering 1,000 megawatts of power primary source of Brisbane's drinking water into Queensland. That project was going to supplies. I ask the Minister: what were the five cost $177m. In those days, this Leader of the alternative sites identified for this project? Opposition ran around and said, "No, no, we What part will the Minister play in any do not want Eastlink". It came to pass that the environmental impact study for the Wivenhoe Opposition came into Government and, of site? Does the Minister support this project at course, abandoned Eastlink. However, when Wivenhoe, even though there are very serious they abandoned Eastlink, they also concerns being expressed locally and in abandoned 1,000 megawatts of power. So Brisbane about the project's environmental then they ran around like headless fowls to try impact? to work out how they were going to get the Mr WELFORD: I note that the honourable power back into Queensland. member mentions that there are serious They had a couple of options. They concerns being expressed about the decided on a really cunning plan, and it was environmental impacts of the project. The only called Westlink. It was going to cost only people I have ever heard express any $242m. Unfortunately, the power that was concerns about the environmental impacts of going to come through Westlink was going to this issue have been people campaigning in come two years later than it would have had the Brisbane City Council election for the Eastlink still been committed. Liberal Party. It has been a very narrow, 24 Nov 1999 Questions Without Notice 5247 cynical election campaign engaged by a very adults who purchased liquor from licensed small number of people who have some premises and subsequently supplied that vested interests in trying to find an issue, liquor to under-age persons. In several because they do not have anything to offer locations around the State there is concern the people of Brisbane. that breaches of Regulation 19AB of the Our Government is not going to waste the Liquor Act were occurring. Regulation 19AB time of this Parliament, as are members of the requires licensees to ensure that promotions or Opposition, by castigating and demonising the practices that may encourage rapid or people of South Burnett, who are very, very excessive consumption of liquor are not pleased that our Government is making a undertaken. Some instances of irresponsible multimillion-dollar investment in their liquor promotions have been detected and in community with this new initiative. We will each case the licensee undertook to cease the further guarantee the people of South Burnett, promotion immediately. the people of Brisbane and anywhere else that the full environmental impacts of this project, Roma Street Parklands like any other major project, will be properly assessed and properly addressed. Mr LAMING: I refer the Minister for Public Works and Minister for Housing to the brochure on the Roma Street parklands project Schoolies Week distributed in the Courier-Mail on Friday, 12 Ms BOYLE: I ask the Minister for Tourism, November. Although the brochure is titled Sport and Racing: will he update the House "Your Place" and invites residents to comment about the progress of schoolies celebrations on the redevelopment, I ask: is it true that throughout Queensland? there is no formal consultation process in place for the public to have their say on their place? Mr GIBBS: I might say that that is a most appropriate question from the member for Mr SCHWARTEN: I thank the honourable Cairns. As members would be aware, the member for the question. I knew a question annual schoolies celebrations formally was coming today. Every day I have a little bet commenced last Friday. Initial investigations with my confrere beside me that I will get a undertaken by liquor licensing inspectors, question, because he sits over there like a particularly on the Gold and Sunshine Coasts, veritable scrub turkey, scratching around and indicate that the first weekend of schoolies taking advice from the old bustards who sit week was reasonably well controlled and that near him. The fact is— generally young people on licensed premises Mr Johnson: Who would you be referring were acting responsibly. to? During the first four nights of schoolies Mr SCHWARTEN: There is a number. Of week, licensing inspectors made 424 visits to course, the honourable member for Gregory licensed premises Statewide, with over 1,500 would be one of the people in this place who persons checked for identification. Those know what a bustard is. Most of the saltwater inspections resulted in 27 minors found on heroes from the Liberal Party would have no licensed premises unlawfully or consuming idea what a bustard was, even though they liquor. The majority of underage offenders keep company with obvious bustards. were males in the 17 year old age bracket, Mr Gibbs: If they look at Mr Santoro while five of those detected were 16 year olds they'll know. who have been referred to the Juvenile Aid Bureau for cautions. Inspectors also reported Mr SCHWARTEN: I think people in the detecting fraudulently obtained identifications Liberal Party refer to him not as an old during visits to licensed premises on the Gold bustard—certainly, the people in John Moore's and Sunshine Coasts. Members would be electorate, where there is a pack of old aware that this was a major concern during bustards, apparently. The question is quite 1998, and it appears that there are still large absurd. This project has been around forever numbers of fraudulently obtained duplicate and a day. What this shows is the absolute— drivers' licences circulating. Licensed premises Mr Beattie: What it shows is that they're advise that, where a duplicate is presented as trying to undermine another great project. identification, they demand a secondary form Mr SCHWARTEN: I take the interjection of of ID before allowing entry. the Premier. Coalition members, who now sit A total of 38 on-the-spot fines were issued opposite in their rightful places, know full well during the weekend for under-age offences. that they would never have got this off the These included 10 on-the-spot fines issued to ground. 5248 Questions Without Notice 24 Nov 1999

Mr Hamill: It was promised by the Goss That means there are less criminals Government; abandoned under them. not being dealt with and, hopefully, less Mr SCHWARTEN: Who will ever chance of crime impacting on citizens. forget—the member for Chatsworth will But there are no votes in that, are remember this—the absurdity of what the there? honourable member for Nerang was proposing No-one can or should create the down there? It got him into more strife than impression that law, order and justice are Flash Gordon. He was hunted out of these not significant and ongoing issues faced benches and put up the back after his by the community. nonsense there. But it is irresponsible to the extreme Ms Spence: Begging for mercy. to use them for political expediency." Mr SCHWARTEN: Indeed, he was The editorial goes on to say, rightly— begging for mercy, of which he was shown plenty by the Leader of the House, being the "Making Gladstone out to be the charitable sort of person that he is. home of increasing crime, when there is deeper stuff to consider, helps no-one. We are hearing the hollow ring of a policy vacuum. As I said this morning in my Mr Horan should concentrate on statement, this shadow Minister does not have lobbying for pro-active policing and decent a clue about this portfolio. That is why he has rehabilitation schemes, rather than come up with this absolute irrelevancy. As I playing smoke and mirrors." said earlier this morning, he is the squawk of In common with Jason Purdie, the editor of the thirteenth strike of the idiot cuckoo clock. that publication, I, too, am sick and tired of the He is irrelevant and absurd and he continues media scare tactics the Opposition to chime that loudly in this place. spokesperson and his colleagues continually seek to create every time one of them feels Law and Order like getting their face on television or in the newspaper. Engendering a fear of crime and Mrs NITA CUNNINGHAM: I refer the hostility is of no benefit to anyone in Minister for Police and Corrective Services to Queensland. I expected more from the person the recently tabled crime statistics for the who would be the Leader of the Opposition. State, and I ask: can he clear up any misconceptions being published about crime in Crime is a concern, but it has to be kept in Queensland? perspective. As I have outlined in recent weeks, this Government is determined to Mr BARTON: There is an oft quoted proactively tackle crime in this State. Indeed, a saying that goes something like this: lies, lies number of programs, including the At Risk and damned statistics. It should be modified Premises—TARP—project and Stage 2 of Help to: lies, lies and the coalition's interpretation of Eliminate Auto Theft, are already achieving statistics. The member for Toowoomba South great success. I am sure all Queenslanders never was much good with numbers, which is recognise the fact that crime trends will not why he is sitting where he is instead of a bit drop overnight. It will take a concerted effort to further along. I am glad to see that one media get these and many more programs off the outlet has seen through the blatant ground and out in the community achieving scaremongering of the Opposition about the results before we can expect real change. This latest crime statistics. The editorial of the Government is getting on with that job. Gladstone Observer of 16 November, headed "Scare tactics not helping", stated— "It is rather irksome to see the Tree Clearing Opposition drag out the tired old law and Mr SPRINGBORG: I refer the Minister for order scare campaign again yesterday. Environment and Heritage and Minister for The figures are up, more people are Natural Resources to the tree-clearing permit taking drugs, more people committing process in place for leasehold land and his fraud, their press release shouted. intention also to restrict tree clearing on freehold land, and I ask: where a leaseholder But, as usual, on closer inspection has been issued a permit to clear, why does the numbers tell a different tale. the Minister's department deem that land to Ironically, the Opposition's scare have been entirely cleared even when not one campaign on skyrocketing law and order single tree may have been cleared at the time figures actually means in part that police of the expiration of the permit? How much has are achieving a better success rate. this dishonest practice distorted the figures he 24 Nov 1999 Questions Without Notice 5249 has quoted in the media regarding the level of Schoolies Week land clearing in Queensland? Mr FOURAS: I direct a question to the Mr WELFORD: The honourable member's Minister for Fair Trading. As some 36,000 question is mistaken on two counts, the first Queensland school leavers are now being that what I or this Government propose celebrating the end of 12 years of schooling, is to restrict clearing on freehold land. We do could the Minister inform the House of steps not propose to restrict it as such. What we that the Office of Fair Trading is taking to propose is a set of principles that will help ensure their safety at venues on the Gold and people manage their land more effectively to Sunshine Coasts? protect it from degradation and to enable them Ms SPENCE: In common with the to maintain the productivity and biodiversity of member for Ashgrove, most of the members the landscape and protect their land for the of this House have never experienced the fun long term. of schoolies week. However, we know that it In relation to permits granted under the has become an important milestone for young leasehold permit system, it is simply not true people today and I am very pleased to outline that we regard all the land granted to be the measures being undertaken by the cleared under a permit as having been Department of Fair Trading to ensure that the cleared. The figures that I issued recently in end of year celebrations run smoothly. The relation to what clearing had occurred between measures that we are undertaking will 1995 and 1997—and that clearing complement those that have been previously represented an 18% increase on the clearing outlined by the Minister for Police and the between 1991 and 1995—were the result of licensing activities outlined today by the the SLATS data undertaken by satellite Minister for Tourism. surveillance which showed actual clearing, not The Department of Fair Trading is areas cleared according to the permit data. responsible for crowd controllers and security There are still plenty of areas not cleared for providers. The Act which governs their activities which permits exist. However, the information ensures that only people who are properly that was released as a result of that satellite trained and have a clean criminal record can data related only to areas shown to have been get a licence. The Act ensures that anyone cleared. acting in these roles must be licensed and that Through this process our Government clubs, hotels and other venues who are wants to achieve a recognition by the employing crowd controllers keep a record of Queensland community, by rural industry their activities. groups—by all stakeholders—that we have a I am pleased to announce that this year, real responsibility to manage our most vital as in previous years, the investigations branch natural capital, the natural capital that of the Department of Fair Trading is underpins the business income of rural undertaking random inspections in the areas industry. The protection of land resources is a where school leavers are concentrating. Of vital necessity if we are going to protect the course, this is mainly the Gold Coast and the future profitability and survival of rural industry Sunshine Coast, but I understand that this into the 21st century. year Toowoomba will also be targeted for We intend to take up that challenge in a random inspections because it has become way the Opposition failed and refused to do, another of the venues for school leavers. because we are cooperating with rural industry I thought that members of the House to work through the issues to help them and might be interested in the results of our help their industry and their members to come inspections last year. Last year 135 crowd to terms with the great challenges that they controllers underwent licence checks at 30 face in the years ahead—challenges raised by Gold Coast venues. Five were found to be the national salinity audit, challenges raised by unlicensed, four produced expired licences a whole range of land degradation problems and two had false licences. There were a that threaten the business capital on which number of prosecutions. On the Sunshine rural industry's income depends. We are going Coast our inspectors visited 12 venues. Thirty to help them plan their landscapes instead of crowd controllers had their licences checked just being accidental victims of what happens and I am pleased to advise that they were all to the landscape. We want them actively cleared. Not everyone heeded the warnings involved in planning their future and the future that were given out last year and, from those of their business. We want them to apply the random checks, magistrates handed out fines same sophistication to their land planning that of up to $2,000 for breaches of the Security they apply to their financial planning. Providers Act. 5250 Questions Without Notice 24 Nov 1999

Crowd controlling is very serious business, attend? It also raises the question: who particularly when the clients are high spirited actually funded the seminars in the Labor school leavers, as occurs during schoolies seats of Townsville and Mundingburra? week. The rule is simple: we send the Mr FOLEY: I can indicate that the message out to venues in Queensland that providing of training for JPs and seminars is a security providers must be accredited and that matter in regard to which a number of they will be sought out and they will be fined if members of Parliament have shown a high they are unaccredited. My department also degree of cooperation and it has cut across all maintained its vigilance recently during Indy political parties. The other evening I had the week. During that week the Fair Trading great pleasure of attending a seminar inspectors carried out 166 random inspections organised by the member for Redlands. on the Gold Coast. I am pleased to report that Indeed, a few weeks back I attended a no unlicensed security providers were detected seminar organised by the member for during that week. Caboolture, another one organised by the Mr SPEAKER: Order! Before calling the member for Kurwongbah, and so on. This cuts member for Burdekin, I would like to recognise across all political parties. the presence in the public gallery of students Arrangements are made for the JP from a school in one of our coalmining areas, branch of the Justice Department to provide the Moura State School. training if the local member wants it to happen. It is not compulsory. If the local member Justice of the Peace Seminars wishes it to be made available, then the department has organised a program cutting Mr KNUTH: My question is to the completely across political parties, Attorney-General and Minister for Justice and Independents and so on, so that these Minister for The Arts. It concerns a complaint training seminars can be provided throughout by a constituent regarding recent justice of the the State. Please be assured that if members peace seminars held in the north. Seminars have an interest in providing such a seminar, were held on 21 September 1999 by the the department stands ready, willing and able member for Mundingburra and on 22 to provide assistance to them. September 1999 by the member for Townsville. Because it is a big State and because this is a matter in which honourable members have When Mike Reynolds' office was taken an active interest, it is true that a good contacted by a constituent from Annandale in deal of the hard work of organising it can fall the Burdekin electorate, he was told that the on the shoulders of members and some seminar was for JPs from the Townsville members feel that that is too onerous a electorate only. I have it on good authority that responsibility. That is a matter for them. On the the member for Thuringowa was contacted by other hand, I must compliment members of the Justice Department and asked to organise political parties across the whole spectrum who a similar seminar and that he was told that he have participated in it. Our State is extremely had to provide a venue and catering for the well served by its justices of the peace and seminar out of his own electorate allowance. commissioners for declarations. The State Consequently, Mr Turner, the member for should provide relevant training, particularly at Thuringowa, declined and no JPs from a time when the laws affecting JPs have Thuringowa were formally invited to the changed and are currently in the process of alternative seminars. I myself was not being reviewed by the Queensland Law contacted at all. Reform Commission. In previous years these seminars have Mr KNUTH: I rise to a point of order. Who been funded by the Justice Department and funded the seminars? That is the question I are usually held in Townsville, with every JP in asked. the surrounding area being invited. Mr SPEAKER: That is not a point of Mr SPEAKER: Order! Does the member order. The member will resume his seat. have a question? Mr FOLEY: I will explain it again. The Mr KNUTH: Yes. The organisation of this departmental officers come along at year's seminars has left JPs in some departmental expense. They provide training electorates uninformed, especially on recent materials at departmental expense, but much changes in legislation affecting the roles of JPs of the organisation of the seminar and getting and commissioners for declarations. I ask the the people there falls to the local member. Minister: why was this allowed to happen, and Some local members wish to do it and some why were some JPs denied the opportunity to local members choose not to do it. 24 Nov 1999 Questions Without Notice 5251

BoysTown by making a weekly apology on behalf of the Mr MICKEL: I direct my question to the member for Beaudesert for anything he might Minister for Families, Youth and Community say during the week. Care and Minister for Disability Services. I refer Fact No. 4: BoysTown is here to stay. Our the Minister to claims about BoysTown, an residential facility will continue. BoysTown organisation which, in addition to its funding will not be cut. BoysTown will in fact Beaudesert facility, manages an excellent expand and enhance its services beyond the facility in Browns Plains in my electorate. Could boundary of its fences. It will cater for not only the Minister outline to the House the future of 84 boys but for hundreds of boys in that BoysTown under the Beattie Government? corridor. Ms BLIGH: I thank the honourable So, on all points, the member for member for the question. It is a pleasure to Beaudesert was wrong, wrong, wrong and have it asked by a member who understands wrong. Of course, this is no surprise. It comes the diverse and excellent services provided by hot on the heels of his comments about BoysTown, unlike the member for Beaudesert Mapoon. On that score, I would like to who made a contribution in the House enlighten members on the views of the yesterday. Like all the contributions by the editorial of the Courier-Mail, which said— member for Beaudesert, it was a fact-free zone. I am pleased to have the opportunity to "Mr Borbidge was far too kind to his put the facts on the record for the interest of National Party colleague yesterday. honourable members. ... Fact No. 1: there has been a decline in A stronger National Party leader numbers at BoysTown for some years. It has would have carpeted Mr Lingard, insisting been happening for a number of years. In fact, he do the apologising and asking for a full the decline became most noticeable in 1997, retraction of the offensive language. when there was an average of only 45 boys at the facility. Who was the Minister in 1997? ... None other than the member for Beaudesert! Mr Lingard has had a spectacularly The decline is attributable to a number of undistinguished political career. factors, particularly a change in practice and a ... change in the expectation of families. Families who live in places like Charleville, Cairns or His comments about the Mapoon Caboolture do not necessarily want to send community demonstrate he is not their young people away; they expect intellectually equipped to be a member of prevention services for their families where Parliament capable of making a rational they live. and relevant contribution. Fact No. 2: there was and has been a ... review of this facility and a review of the current Mr Lingard should do his party, his model in light of the declining numbers. It was constituents and Queensland a favour a joint review by the department and the De and bow out gracefully." La Salle Brothers. It was chaired by Brother Paul Rogers, the man who Mr Lingard claimed yesterday was sacked by the review. Times Townsville Railway Station change and the De La Salle Brothers are to be congratulated for moving with the times. Mr JOHNSON: My question is to the Minister for Transport and Minister for Main Fact No. 3: the De La Salle Brothers will Roads. I refer to the Premier's recent continue to operate BoysTown. Brother Paul statement to the Townsville Bulletin in which Rogers will no longer head the facility. This is he indicated that the Townsville Railway not a recommendation of the review; it is an Station will be relocated regardless of public internal decision of the De La Salle Brothers. opinion. Is the Minister now aware of a report Any suggestion of political interference or in the Townsville Bulletin of 10 November 1999 Government interference in the internal headed "Majority wants station to stay", which placement decisions of an order of the indicates that most of the 80 public responses Catholic or any other church is offensive and to the public consultation process want the untrue and warrants an apology. station to stay where it is? Will the Minister now I can assure the member that the De La give an assurance that the enhancement of Salle Brothers have taken great offence. I the existing historic station, which was not an would encourage the Opposition Leader to option in the public consultation process, now save everybody a great deal of time and grief be included as an option for consideration? 5252 Questions Without Notice 24 Nov 1999

Mr BREDHAUER: I thank the member for the existing heritage listed building for QR Gregory for the question. We made an purposes, probably for administrative election commitment prior to the 1998 State purposes. We will find the best possible site for election that we would relocate the Townsville the railway station that allows for the Townsville Railway Station. We are a Government that is CBD redevelopment to proceed, which is in the about delivering on our election commitments. best interests of the City of Townsville. We will Mr Johnson: Against the consultation also enable heritage trains to be able to use process. the old railway station for appropriate historical purposes. I simply commend the member for Mr BREDHAUER: I have had numerous Townsville for the hard work he has put in on representations from the community in behalf of his constituents on this matter. Townsville about when and how we are going to honour our election commitment. The original proposal was to relocate the railway Cammoo Caves station to Reid Park. Some concern was Mr PEARCE: My question is to the expressed by a variety of stakeholders in the Minister for Environment and Heritage and Townsville area about whether Reid Park was Minister for Natural Resources. I refer to the the appropriate place to relocate the station to. recent acquisition of the Cammoo Caves in At my instigation the Department of Transport, central Queensland. What measures will the in conjunction with other stakeholders, Government be putting in place to manage including QR, the Department of Main Roads, this significant conservation area? the Townsville City Council and others, initiated a process to determine where the most Mr WELFORD: I thank the honourable appropriate place for the relocation of the member for his question and his keen interest station was. in this unique part of central Queensland. This historic acquisition of Cammoo Caves and The relocation of the station is desirable surrounding land—about 35 hectares in all—as because of the work that has been done in an addition to the Mount Etna Caves National Townsville in respect of the CBD Park is one of the most significant strategic redevelopment by the CBD Redevelopment acquisitions for conservation purposes in Task Force and because of the need to get rid recent years. It is an example of how the of the rail loop that brings trains into the Beattie Government is working with industry Townsville station. We have given a and the community to produce positive commitment that we will retain the existing outcomes. railway station, because it is a heritage listed This acquisition of Cammoo Caves will building. In all likelihood we will retain that. provide us with multiple benefits. Not only will it Even though the station facilities for provide for the conservation of the famous bat passengers arriving or departing from colonies of that area, but it will also provide an Townsville will move, we will continue to use area for the enjoyment of caving enthusiasts that building for QR administrative purposes. who travel to the region from all around I have also given an undertaking as Australia. Park visitors who want to experience recently as last weekend—and I might say that the spectacular limestone formations of the the member for Townsville has made many local caves will now be able to access representations to my office on behalf of his Cammoo Caves all year round. I had the constituents and the views that have been pleasure of visiting the caves recently and expressed on a regular basis—that we will inspecting the site personally. This will ease retain the opportunity for heritage trains and the pressure on the other caves in the national other trains to come into the old precinct of the park, such as Johannsen's Cave, which has to Townsville Railway Station, but we are unable be closed seasonally to protect the vital to retain the loop and operate new services breeding ground of the threatened ghost bat. that we want to operate like the diesel tilt train The addition of this land also conserves an service, which is another election commitment important area of dry rainforest which is a we are delivering on for the people of feeding ground for the bat colonies and Queensland, including the people of improves overall public access to the park as a Townsville, who will benefit. whole. We are still consulting with the The park's proximity to Rockhampton and community. I am aware that there is concern Central Queensland University will also provide raised by the Save Our Station Group about an exceptional opportunity for supporting the process. We are continuing to work research. There will be active community through the issues with them, but we will involvement in determining future honour our election commitment. We will retain management, with a management advisory 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5253 committee to be established next year. The Death rates for all causes of injury in first priority of that committee will be to guide a males living in other remote areas were double public consultation process to help determine those of males living in capital cities. Males the most appropriate caving and recreational living in other rural areas experienced death use of the parks. rates from injury around 50% higher than None of this would have been possible those living in capital cities. Death rates from without the genuine efforts of Pacific Lime, a road vehicle accidents show an even more company which has worked hard to redress pronounced pattern of increase with increasing previous actions that led to disputes with remoteness. And both males and females conservationists and the local community. living in other areas die in road vehicle They are to be congratulated on their accidents at more than double the rate of conciliatory process with the local community, those living in capital cities. whom I also want to thank, especially the The report also outlined that speleological society and the member for hospitalisation often follows the same pattern Rockhampton, who has been advocating this as mortality. Hospitalisation rates for injury for 10 years. show much higher rates in rural and remote Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time for zones compared to the metropolitan zones. questions has now expired. Hospitalisation rates for falls in people aged 65 years or more show higher rates in rural and remote zones. Male hospitalisation rates due HEALTH LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL to burns in the remote zones were seven times Second Reading higher than those of males living in capital cities. And both males and females living in Resumed from 26 October (see p. 4303). the rural zones also experienced higher Miss SIMPSON (Maroochydore—NPA) hospitalisation rates from burns than those (11.30 a.m.): Getting more doctors and other living in capital cities, with rates around one allied health professionals into rural and third higher than in capital cities. regional Australia has to be one of the most There is a range of factors that contribute important issues facing Governments in this to those different health outcomes, but nation. At a time when incredible advances are certainly access to appropriate health services being made in health science and mind- must be one of those very critical contributing boggling new technologies and drug factors. Equity of access to health services for treatments, the gap between health outcomes Queenslanders is essential. I will talk further in country and city areas remains stark. As about the issue of equity in a moment, Queensland is such a decentralised State, with because it concerns where the funding in the vast distances between rural and regional health system is currently being spent. centres, this is particularly so. Furthermore, I applaud the principles of the Doctors for many of our tertiary services are concentrated the Bush program, which has been worked out in the south-east corner of the State. between the State and Federal Governments. To highlight just how stark the differences A similar scheme is also getting under way in in health outcomes are between city and other States around Australia. It aims at country areas, it is relevant to quote some cutting red tape and encouraging local medical statistics from the Australian Institute of Health graduates and appropriately trained overseas and Welfare's 1998 publication Health in Rural doctors to serve in specified rural and remote and Remote Australia. The report examines a areas to overcome the local doctor shortages. range of indicators of health status, especially Doctors accepted into the scheme will have important causes of death, the incidence of access to geographically unrestricted Medicare common cancers and major causes of provider numbers after a minimum of five hospitalisation. years. And if they are overseas-trained Major differences in death rates across doctors, they will be eligible to take up the categories for the 1992 to 1996 period residency. They will not have to undertake the include: male and female total death rates for Australian Medical Council's exam; however, those living in capital cities were 6% lower than they will have to undertake the postgraduate those living in large rural centres, and 20% training. lower than for those living in remote centres. Several months ago, in the lead-up to this Injury is a major contributor to premature Bill coming before the House, we almost lost to mortality in Australia, and there is a strong Western Australia the overseas-trained doctor pattern of increasing mortality from injury with who is currently in Richmond, because that increasing remoteness, particularly for males. State was already interviewing people for that 5254 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 position. Fortunately, the Queensland Health having the appropriate backup support and Department was able to provide assurances access to locums. And they are so distant from that Richmond and that doctor could be other services that there is a lot of included in the scheme. I understand that responsibility on their shoulders, and it can Victoria was also trying to poach another very seem very daunting, particularly to newer competent overseas-trained doctor who was doctors who are thinking about serving in rural practising near Bundaberg. and remote areas. There are some skills that This highlights the need to be aware that those doctors have to be equipped with in not only do we have to attract good overseas- order to cope in those areas which the trained doctors into our rural and regional average suburban doctor would not be areas; we also have to hold onto them and expected to have, simply because there is a make sure that they do not get a better deal in much better system of backup through the other States. I seek the Minister's advice as to public and private sectors and a range of other how many of these positions under the medical practitioners who are more easily scheme she envisages being taken up by local available. graduates and how many she would estimate There is also an issue concerning regional would be from overseas, as well as the areas. I would like to outline some of the full- amount of money that she has set aside to time equivalent statistics for GP to population resource the program and the estimated total ratios in Bundaberg and district. According to number of participants in the coming year. the figures supplied by the Queensland I note that, in the Minister's second- divisions of general practice, Bundaberg and reading speech, she said that the district has one physician for every 1,744 Commonwealth has made it clear that members of the population. In Mackay, they unrestricted provider numbers will not be have one doctor for every 1,658 members of granted under the scheme to overseas-trained the population. In Townsville, they have one doctors in provincial centres and that other doctor for every 1,428. In Toowoomba and strategies will need to be developed to district, they have one doctor for every 998 address shortages of general practitioners in people. But in Gladstone, they have one those centres. I also note that, under this Bill, doctor for every 1,930 members of the public. the Minister will now have the power to That gives members an idea of the disparity in determine an area of need—not the Medical distribution. Of course, there is a far higher Board. I have had conflicting advice from level for those who are residing in Brisbane. Canberra about the limitations and the But basically, if we do not have access to GP application of the scheme, in that I have been services as a gateway to a lot of health told that the Minister basically can make the services, one would expect that that in itself is decision as to which areas will be accepted going to have a detrimental impact on the into the scheme and that, if there is a need in overall health facilities in an area. a provincial area—and I will use Kingaroy and It is disappointing, given the low doctor to Bundaberg as examples—the Minister has the population ratio in the Bundaberg and district authority to consider them. However, if the area, that this Government cut back access to Minister wishes to vary the contracted time of the GP outpatients clinic at the Bundaberg service by extending the contract beyond the Base Hospital. I understand that the public five years to, say, seven years, that is possible. hospital system has to fill the gap in providing I would appreciate the Minister tabling advice access to GP services in many areas of from the Commonwealth concerning these Queensland. Thus, when there is a problem in limitations in order to clarify this matter. As the the private sector, it is disappointing that the Minister says that "other strategies will need to State Government is already retreating from be developed to address shortages of GPs" in those areas. provincial centres, I seek her advice as to what I want to look at issues concerning strategy she is considering. initiatives to address the shortage of supply of There are examples of shortages even in doctors in rural and regional areas. I am proud regional centres, such as Bundaberg, Kingaroy that the coalition, while in Government, took a and Mackay, and a number of other regional very positive step in this direction and was centres, as well as rural and remote areas, responsible, together with the people of north have had extraordinary difficulty in attracting Queensland, for birthing a North Queensland doctors to practise in those areas. I Medical School at James Cook University. The acknowledge that the areas of greatest need medical school will have its first intake next are those rural and truly remote areas. It is year as an accredited facility. I wish to very difficult to attract doctors to those areas, acknowledge Mike Horan as the former Health because there are other issues, such as Minister who, with the Federal Health Minister, 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5255

Michael Wooldridge, secured a commitment to the difficulty of being isolated from other joint funding for this facility. I would like to put practitioners who could provide an overview of on the record my congratulations to the their skills for the purposes of assessment. I dedicated staff who have achieved would certainly urge a greater flexibility of the accreditation, against the odds, in such a short specialist colleges in delivering education for time frame. doctors in rural and regional areas. However, I This new medical school is one of the also believe that Queensland Health must not most significant developments in trying to abrogate its very important role in assisting in address the rural doctor shortage. It is providing training positions in the public system acknowledged that there is a lead time in and extending training opportunities and relation to doctors from the medical school appropriate levels of support. becoming available, but it is a step in the right The lack of access to specialists across direction in terms of dealing with the long-term the State is an increasing dilemma, and I ask issues. The medical school will have a rural the Minister to advise the House as to the focus and it is going to see more young numbers of trainee positions that the public people from rural areas being able to access a health system is providing, as well as in what medical course. In my own area on the specialties, and whether there have been any Sunshine Coast, I have witnessed people increases in the number of positions or moves accessing university degrees who would not to address critical shortages. otherwise have undertaken studies if they did not have local access to those studies. The previous Minister held a very successful round-table conference with the While rural Queensland is a vast area, specialist colleges to address this issue, which there is no doubt that there will be more resulted in additional training positions. It is students with a rural and regional background time that this matter was revisited. The seeking to access this medical course in north recommendations of the round-table Queensland due to its closer proximity to the conference should be reviewed. There should communities in which they live. Even for those also be a review of current needs and issues. students who do not come from rural and regional communities, the philosophies of this I wish to again express my concerns exciting new school are rural focused, and the about the lack of funding to address the critical course work recognises the special challenges shortage of nursing staff across the State. I do and skills required to practise in those areas. not think the report of the nursing task force The State coalition, in Government, also was tabled in the Parliament today. I ask the assisted in attracting doctors into and retaining Minister to table that report, because I believe them in rural areas by expanding and it is important to listen to the views of people in enhancing positions for medical the industry. Some of the recommendations in superintendents with the right of private the report will be significant in certain areas, practice. but there are ever other areas which we need to address with regard to allied health I note that the Minister, in her second- professionals. We must recognise that reading speech, pledged assistance to doctors providing health care to rural, remote and in the scheme discussed in this Bill to regional Queensland means having a team of undertake post-graduate training to gain the people in place to provide the best level of relevant Australian qualifications in general care. Once we have a network of people who practice. I would appreciate it if the Minister have those skills in an area, we have an could provide more detail to the Parliament opportunity to attract other people and retain about how this support will be provided. This the medical and allied professionals in the question about access to appropriate post- area. graduate training is very important to all the other rural doctors, and potential rural doctors, One of the important issues is housing. who will not be allowed into the Doctors for the We must also have incentives for people to go Bush scheme. into areas which are classified as being remote. Such matters have been raised by Doctors without post-graduate vocational health professionals. training are at a disadvantage in regard to the level of Medicare rebates which they are I started out speaking about issues of entitled to receive. However, a common equity in health funding and the need for complaint among rural general practitioners is transparency in the process of funding that they cannot easily acquire this recognised allocations around the State as well as access post-graduate training through the College of to services and health outcomes. In this General Practice due to issues of access and regard, I noted with interest the Queensland 5256 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999

Health Department's submission to the Senate outpatient specialist's appointment, but there inquiry into funding of public hospitals. is a 60-week wait for an appointment to see an I offer bipartisan support to the State eye specialist. If one is old and blind, being Government's bid for increased Federal unable to see may not be a life-threatening funding for the treatment of non-urgent cases situation—it could be—but it is a life-altering in Queensland hospitals if the State Health situation. People who are going blind have to Minister will open the books. I note that the wait two or three years in order to get an Beattie Government threatened to stop appointment and, finally, have an operation. treating non-urgent patients in Queensland Those services have already been wound back hospitals unless the Federal Government by stealth. provided an additional $64 million in health I wish to address the provisions of the funding. I will always support more money for legislation dealing with the banning of non- Queensland's hospitals, but what concerns me tobacco cigarettes from sale or supply to is that there is a whole pile of additional funds, juveniles. The coalition certainly supports these negotiated by the previous coalition provisions which we advocated when the Government, which are not translating into herbal cigarette, Ecstasy, was publicly additional services—especially in rural and marketed in April this year. There was no regional Queensland. doubt that this product was sending a pro-illicit On its existing track record, there is drug message to children even though the nothing to suggest that another $64 million product itself was legal under the previous Act. handed to this Government will mean extra Because of the harmful effects of services in hospitals throughout the State as tobacco—which are well recognised in our this Government tends to increase the size of community—there had been a naive the bureaucracy in preference to supplying assumption by many people who bought more doctors and nurses. There is no herbal cigarettes that somehow these evidence that the additional $1.3 billion in cigarettes were a safer alternative and were Federal funding, negotiated by the previous healthy. coalition Government, is being spread around This could not be further from the truth, as the many rural and regional hospitals in smoking herbal cigarettes releases a variety of Queensland in an equitable way. tars and other cancer-causing chemicals. However, I am willing to be convinced. If Respiratory tract infections and asthma are the Health Minister will agree to open the more common in people who smoke, books of each of Queensland's public regardless of whether it is tobacco or other hospitals and prove that this money is being products, and the inhalation of carbon equitably distributed to front-line health monoxide has other negative health impacts. I services and not to a fatter bureaucracy, I will would not go so far as the Health Minister went wholeheartedly support her latest call for more in her second-reading speech and say that money. This is about transparency. This is after being notified of the problem eight about accountability. I will always welcome months ago the Government's actions were additional funding for health, but we must swift—particularly as the amendments here are make sure that it is spent equitably across the not complex. Nevertheless, the changes to the State. We do not want to hear a call for more existing Act expanding it to cover non-tobacco money which simply goes into the pockets of cigarettes, and prohibiting juvenile access to the bureaucrats in this State. them, are welcome. I am concerned about the Beattie At the Committee stage I will be Government's plan to take Queensland addressing questions to the Minister in regard patients hostage in its game of brinkmanship to the provision in the Act relating to quality with the Federal Government. Getting more assurance committees. I particularly draw the money out of the Federal Government is one attention of the Minister to the questions that I thing, but it concerns me that this State have asked in this contribution to the second- Government's means of doing so is to reading debate. I would appreciate her threaten to stop treating our own patients. In addressing them in her summation. fact, the State Government is already doing Hon. B. G. LITTLEPROUD (Western that if we consider the outpatient GP clinics Downs—NPA) (11.39 a.m.): In rising to speak closed down by this Government, even in to this Health Legislation Amendment Bill, I areas of need, and the increasing waiting indicate that I will be dealing mostly with the times for specialist outpatient appointments. amendments to the Medical Act. Being a In my own area, if one merely wants to be product of rural Queensland, I am very put on a surgical list, one has to have an supportive of any actions that can be taken at 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5257 the State and Federal levels to overcome the need specialist treatment, we will go and get it. shortage of doctors in rural areas. Having lived Of course, let us give credit also to the all my life on the Darling Downs, I believe that I emergency services officers. Ambulance have a pretty good understanding about the services have been extended throughout rural way people feel about their access to services. Queensland. Now we have the medivac My grandparents moved to that region and helicopter and the flying doctor. There has were prepared to walk away from necessary been great progress. We do not think it is services, such as medical services, for the necessary to go down the road of delivering sake of starting a career for themselves. only world's best practice, because we in small Subsequent generations have probably felt communities can see ourselves missing out. the same. However, the Health Department Having been supportive of progress, I and various Governments have continued to thank the Minister for her help with an ongoing improve the health services being delivered. personnel problem within the Northern Downs When we visit our local doctors, we have had Health Service. I pursued that problem through great confidence that they will treat us if they the previous Minister. I think we are can or they will have the judgment to tell us to somewhere down the track. The solution has go to one of the major cities to see a been finalised. I thank the Minister for that. I specialist. have since talked to people who are within the A watershed occurred under a new service in that region. They are somewhat Government in 1990 when Dr Ian Cumming relieved. took up the position on the Darling Downs of Mrs Edmond: Is it working well? the Regional Director of Health. He held a Mr LITTLEPROUD: It seems to be number of seminars explaining the new delivery of health services. To some degree, currently. I still have not met the replacement. I people did appreciate that the delivery of will be making that acquaintance soon. health services would be different. It has stuck About a fortnight ago I wrote to the in my mind that he said that he would be able Minister when I became aware of the to stand by only best practice. I immediately circumstances surrounding a doctor in Injune. thought of my heritage and the people before For the benefit of members in the House, I me who were prepared to accept whatever point out that Injune is nearly one hour north medical service could be afforded by the of Roma. Further north, the next hospital is two department, which was not necessarily at and a half hours away at Springsure. If one world's best practice. Dr Cumming was insisting drives through the ranges for two and a half that we could have only the best practice hours, one would reach Taroom. If one drove possible. The local people in places such as west for three or four hours, one would reach Jandowae, Miles and Chinchilla felt somewhat Augathella. Injune is in the centre of every threatened, because they could see that the remote cattle breeding area in Queensland. It provision of surgery, which had been has a small hospital, serving a population of performed previously in those places, would be 400 or 500 people in town and another 400 or at risk and that it would be referred to places 500 people who are scattered over hundreds such as the base hospital in Toowoomba. of thousands of square miles. It is pretty Certainly child deliveries were at risk. To some difficult to get a doctor to go to such places. degree, that threat still exists. When I first became the member, Injune I have a fair understanding of how was blessed with a rather elderly gentleman expensive delivering health services is and who was quite content to live in that how services have changed. We are now able environment. He was loved by the people. He to do organ transplants and joint played in the local school's instrumental group replacements. They are all very expensive. For and mixed with the local people. Unfortunately, the sake of balancing the budget, the he passed away. To attract another doctor, department has to deliver its services in Mike Horan, the member for Toowoomba different ways. If the Government can allay the South, saw fit to put money into upgrading the fears in rural communities about best practice doctor's house. Since then, there has been a being the only way to go and consider second injection of money to do up the house enhancing the existing health services in those and the private surgery. For about 12 or 18 areas, it will be going a long way to providing months, that region was served by another the right services to the people in the bush gentleman and his wife. However, he wanted who are prepared to take the good advice of to move on to pursue his studies. It now has a the local GP. If he thinks he can handle it, we single doctor of Asiatic extraction. will stick by him. If we want a second opinion, Those circumstances are symptomatic of we will go somewhere else. If he says that we the problems that medical professionals 5258 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 experience in remote areas. They think about Injune is a beef area. There are probably their quality of life. They think about access to more accidents associated with people who professional assistance and the remoteness are handling livestock than there are with any from their professional colleagues. They are other form of primary production. Those aware of the increased threat of litigation farmers are in remote places. It is vital that against them. I know that the Borbidge there be a doctor within at least a couple of Government worked on subsidising the hours' drive of those places. Injune is on a very litigation insurance premiums. It has been important national link between north recognised that doctors need special sorts of Queensland and Melbourne. It has a little skills to go to such places and feel comfortable hospital with six or seven beds. Hundreds of with themselves in general practice, because road trains travel up and down that road the demands are so varied. Doctors want a between Melbourne and Townsville. They are personal life. To a degree, that issue has been going backwards and forwards all the time. addressed through relief that is provided for so Also tourist buses go through that town. It is many days a month. The doctor at Dirranbandi vital that medical services exist to back up the has a relaxing place on the Sunshine Coast meagre ambulance services. I would welcome that he goes to when he is on leave. That is whatever steps the department can take to where he picks up what he wants in life before come to an arrangement to make it possible he returns to serve the people in the for the doctor to have a viable private practice Dirranbandi region. and to cooperate with the hospital of which he As there was a bit of lag between one is superintendent. I am told that in other parts doctor leaving Injune and another arriving, of Queensland where there are small some of the patients from the Injune private communities to service and there is a right to practice began visiting a medical practice in private practice associated with the role of Roma. Last week I talked with Dr John medical superintendent, consideration is being Youngman about the current doctor in Injune, given to putting the private surgery in the who has indicated that he is having trouble grounds of the hospital. generating enough cash flow in the private Mrs Edmond: We have done that at practice to allow him to hire an assistant at the Injune. We have put in a private surgery. surgery. He is negotiating with the department Mr LITTLEPROUD: Yes, but it is at the to use premises at the hospital so that he can house. According to John Youngman, in other be close to the patients at the hospital, where places it has been put in the hospital grounds he is the part-time medical superintendent. He because it is close to other facilities. There is claims that he cannot quite afford to keep an room to negotiate. I hope the local practitioner assistant at the private surgery. He would like is reasonable in his expectations of the to pay an up-front fee for every patient that he department so that we can provide the service sees privately at the hospital. Dr Youngman explained to me that the Minister was and get over some of the technicalities, prepared to negotiate. However, it poses because there is a desperate need for that technical problems in relation to the pharmacy, remote small community. I support the the use of facilities, litigation and the nursing legislation before the House. service. I thank the Minister for taking up the Mr REEVES (Mansfield—ALP) issue. I do not know whether it has been (11.59 a.m.): It gives me great pleasure to resolved yet. I went to the trouble of talking support this Bill. I would like to refer to one with a few people I know who are part of the aspect of the Bill, which is the amendment to local health committee. Committee members legislation relating to tobacco products. Both are spread over a few hundred square within Australia and overseas, it appears that kilometres. They are thankful for the attitude there is a trend towards the smoking of herbal taken by Dr Youngman and the officers of the cigarettes and herbal smoking blends as an department. After speaking with Dr alternative to conventional tobacco products, Youngman, I spoke to Jane Harrison, who is such as cigarettes, roll-your-own cigarettes and the district manager at Roma. Dr Youngman loose pipe tobacco. These herbal products are had spoken to her also. I appreciate that she promoted as a healthier alternative to tobacco has bent over backwards to try to facilitate and, in some cases, as an aid to help matters that will improve the circumstances for individuals quit smoking. Some varieties of the practitioner there. The present doctor is herbal smoking products contain tobacco, for feeling somewhat uneasy. If he cannot example, clove cigarettes, which contain a negotiate a deal, he is threatening to leave the combination of shredded clove buds and district. That would be terrible for the people of tobacco, and beedies, which contain tobacco Injune. rolled into a piece of dried leaf. 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5259

For the purposes of the Tobacco Products agree. Also, the health effects of smoking are (Prevention of Supply to Children) Act 1998, cumulative: the longer a person smokes—and smoking products that contain any amount of the member should listen to this very tobacco are tobacco products and, as such, carefully—the more likely it is that the person under this Act the supply of these products to will develop heart disease, cancer or other young people is restricted. The purpose of the health problems linked with smoking. I notice amendments to the Tobacco Products that the Minister for Primary Industries is (Prevention of Supply to Children) Act 1998 is present in the Chamber. It is very important to extend the application of this Act to non- that he listens to what I am saying. A child who tobacco smoking products, that is, herbal starts smoking before he or she is 14 years old cigarettes, which are to be defined for the is 15 times more likely to die of lung cancer purposes of the Act as meaning a preparation than someone who has never smoked. for smoking that is made from a herb or other In addition to harm associated with by- plant, or a blend of herbs or other plants, products of smoking any combustible whether or not the herb, plant or blend is substance, some herbal cigarettes contain mixed with another substance; is enclosed in psychoactive substances that can result in paper, bar, leaf or something else; and does psychotic symptoms. Young people have not contain tobacco. Loose smoking blends been hospitalised soon after smoking or are to be defined for the purposes of the Act ingesting herbal cigarettes. Smoking with the as meaning a preparation for smoking that aim of eliciting hallucinogenic effects can result does not contain tobacco and is made from a in increased exposure to carbon monoxide herb or other plant, or a blend of herbs or and tar than in the case of smoking a other plants and is prepared for retail sale, but conventional cigarette. does not include a herbal cigarette. The marketing of relatively low-cost There are a number of health concerns hallucinogenic herbal smoking products may relating to non-tobacco smoking products, induce children to purchase the products. such as the impact of cigarette smoke on However, it is possible that they will smoke health, whether or not the smoking compound more of the product and inhale more deeply to contains addictive substances such as obtain a hallucinogenic effect. In recognition of nicotine; marketing claims and consumer belief the apparent trend towards the smoking of that the herbal cigarettes are a healthy non-tobacco smoking products by young alternative to tobacco products and are an aid people and the adverse health effects to assist in quitting—and nothing could be associated with smoking these products, further from the truth—and their appeal and Queensland now joins South Australia as the accessibility to young people. Research only State to regulate the supply of non- indicates that smoking herbal cigarettes leads tobacco smoking products to young people, to at least a similar degree of exposure to and we can be proud of that fact. carbon monoxide and tar as does smoking tobacco cigarettes. Carbon monoxide is The Tobacco Products (Prevention of strongly linked with the development of Supply to Children) Act 1998 was created to help curb the uptake of smoking among coronary heart disease. In addition, although carbon monoxide is not itself a carcinogen, it children. However, this Act cannot work in may contribute to cancers and other diseases isolation; it companions other Government of the respiratory tract. Toxic substances initiatives such as the Quit smoking campaign, contained in cigarette smoke remain in the school drug education, the school health airways, causing inflammation and damage, nurses network, the young people at risk impairing lung function and increasing the program, the Rock Eisteddfod Challenge, the likelihood of lung disease. Croc Eisteddfod Festival, and the smoke-free sport program. Currently, the Rock Eisteddfod Adolescents who smoke will have more Challenge, which is part of the 100% in control asthma and allergic symptoms than youth drug campaign, is being expanded to nonsmokers of the same age due to toxic include more smoke-free messages. These chemicals in cigarette smoke and will develop messages will not concentrate on traditional more respiratory tract infections than health or scare tactics, but rather they will show nonsmokers. By young adulthood, a that smoking is an expensive habit and that substantial proportion will have determined tobacco companies tell lies to recruit young abnormal changes in the cellular structure of people. That has been evidenced by the their small airways. Studies have shown that recent announcement by Phillip Morris, which the earlier a person takes up smoking, the finally admitted the ramifications of smoking. more difficult he or she will find it to quit. I am This approach is based on international sure that the member for Sunnybank would research that shows that health messages, 5260 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 such as the fear of getting lung cancer, does going through the education process and not work with kids. The Rock Eisteddfod becoming qualified. I can see where the AMA message is similar to those messages coming is coming from, but the reality is that we are out of the multimillion-dollar campaigns in the not getting the proper spread of doctors into US. the regional parts of Australia. The Government believes that the new This package provides the opportunity for health promotion initiatives, coupled with laws doctors from overseas to gain accreditation restricting tobacco products and herbal here. They first have to establish that they smoking products to children, will help curb qualify. Then they will be given permanent youth smoking. Reducing the number of residency status as well as a Medicare provider children taking up smoking is the most number. Provided they stay in the western effective way of reducing the incidence of regions for five years, that geographical limit smoking in the community. As many members can be lifted. However, they can continue to of this House would understand, those who practise in those regions, if they wish. But they have taken up the bad habit would have must go into an area of unmet need. I probably started smoking when they were understand the Minister will determine the young and they are now finding it difficult to areas of unmet need. We need some stop. This reduction in young people taking up clarification of that, because the Explanatory smoking will have the added benefit of Notes state that the departmental officers will significantly reducing the deaths and illnesses set this up and the Minister will have the final caused by smoking and the social and health say. I hope that the Minister does have the costs that smoking has on the community. final say. I congratulate the Minister on bringing this Mrs Edmond: On the recommendation of Bill to the House. I commend it to the House. a committee made up of rural people. Mr HOBBS (Warrego—NPA) (12.07 p.m.): Mr HOBBS: That would be the way to go. It is my pleasure to speak to this Health We need to have our hands on the levers. We Legislation Amendment Bill. The aspect of this cannot allow the system to fall down. Bill that I wish to refer to is that part of it which relates to rural doctors. For instance, a lady doctor came to Mrs Edmond: And I thank you for your Charleville from Wales. She loved the place. support, too. She came out on a working visa and decided to marry a local. She wanted to come back Mr HOBBS: It is a pleasure. and set up her own practice. We tried to help Mrs Edmond: I have seen it in the media her to do that. It took three or four years to as well. achieve that. However, the proposed system Mr HOBBS: I think it is such a serious would have been of more assistance to her. problem that it requires a bipartisan approach. She is now providing a great service to that Most Governments have not been able to community and is well respected. That has resolve the issue. We have not fixed it yet, but been a welcome development. I think that this Bill is a step in the right There is a real need for Australian doctors direction. to be treating the people in the west. In the Mrs Edmond: It is a good start. past, we have had problems attracting Mr HOBBS: It is a good start. For quite a Australian doctors to those areas. Obviously, long time, I have been involved with this issue one approach would be to get people who as it relates to my electorate of Warrego. It has grow up and live in the western areas of the been very, very hard to attract doctors to State to gain a medical qualification and go remote regions. I can remember way back to back to those areas. In many instances they the days when Mike Ahern was Minister for need help to get through postgraduate and Health that there were enormous problems in undergraduate courses. A program was put together by the Federal Government. A lot of just trying to put together a package to attract work was put into this by John Anderson. In doctors to these areas. We felt that we did a this year's Federal Budget, about $4m has pretty good job of putting those packages been allocated to a scholarship program. That together, but we still could not get doctors to will be of great assistance in encouraging rural go out to the remote areas. Since then, we students to enter the medical field and practise have heard of some coastal towns in western areas. experiencing difficulty in attracting specialists. Of course, the AMA believes very strongly that Mrs Edmond: Queensland has a number there are too many doctors in Australia and it of scholarships—not the Federal ones that are does not want increased numbers of people only partial at a later time. A significant number 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5261 of scholarships are already available for rural my electorate. The branches at Moura, doctors. Mundubbera and Gin Gin are all set to close in Mr HOBBS: What about the ones who a continuing reduction of banking services. In stay on? Perhaps 30 might start studying common with many other rural-based under a scholarship. After six years, we might members, I have had to deal with the angst end up with about two. They tend to keep that has been caused by the proposed dropping off. That was the problem we had closures of schools—and not only the closures previously. The number almost halved. For of schools but also the reduction in teacher example, if 20 started, 10 would stay on for numbers and education services offered by the next year and in each successive year the schools in rural areas. Many of the number halved. They were not following the communities that make up the electorate of course through to completion. I ask the Callide struggle with the problem of retaining Minister to indicate whether that has been a adequate health professionals. In Gayndah, problem. Taroom and Biloela, finding enough doctors and other health professionals to provide an Mrs Edmond: I don't know, but the ones adequate service is a real problem. For who take scholarships are bonded. They have example, Gayndah has recently seen its to serve the Government for a period of time, community reduced to only one doctor—one and we really rely on them very heavily out in doctor to service the needs of nearly 3,000 the bush hospitals. residents. And Taroom has a major problem Mr HOBBS: That is good. However, the which is yet to be resolved. main focus should be on making sure that they get their qualification so that they can This piece of legislation seeks to address practise. That has been a problem in the past. one of the most insidious reductions in Importantly, in this day and age, more services, that is, access to health care. The emphasis is placed on ensuring that students scheme known as Doctors in the Bush has complete their tertiary training. Those points been developed through collaboration with the were important to me. I welcome this Commonwealth Government, the State announcement by the Government. Western Government and the peak medical Australia is progressing with this as well. I hope professional bodies, with the primary purpose that other States in Australia also take up this of recruiting overseas trained doctors to reduce program so that doctors are not confined by the shortage of general practitioners in rural State borders. If they are prepared to live and and remote areas. work in those regions and look after the people This legislation seeks to amend the there, they will certainly be very welcome. Medical Act 1939 to allow the implementation Mr SEENEY (Callide—NPA) (12.14 p.m.): of the Doctors in the Bush scheme. In that I rise to add my support to the Health regard, it certainly has my support. However, I Legislation Amendment Bill 1999 and in will state the obvious and say that, although it particular that section of the Bill which seeks to is a step in the right direction, it will not by any amend the Medical Act 1939 to facilitate the means be the complete solution to the implementation of a scheme aimed at problem. The scheme will operate on the basis recruiting overseas trained doctors to reduce that practitioners who work in rural and remote the shortage of general practitioners in rural communities for five years will be entitled to and remote areas of the State. various benefits, including eligibility for There are few things more devastating to permanent residency status and the receipt of a rural community than the loss of their local an unrestricted Medicare provider number. For doctor. There are few things that cause more the scheme to be implemented, practitioners concern to people living in rural communities recruited under the scheme will need to obtain than inequitable access to health services. conditional registration from the Medical There are few things more destructive to the Board. Registration from the Medical Board social fabric of a rural community than not may be granted only for the purpose of being able to attract and hold the services of a enabling the practitioner to practise in an area general practitioner. This has been a problem of unmet need. in rural communities across Queensland for The Explanatory Notes to the legislation some time. In spite of the best efforts of the set out that under the current legislation the people who live in rural communities and their Medical Board must decide in these cases local government leaders, these communities whether an area of unmet need exists. continue to lose services of all types. However, in relation to the registration of Just this week, Westpac announced that practitioners recruited under the Doctors for the it will close three more bank branches within Bush scheme, following the adoption of this 5262 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 legislation the situation with regard to an area These new Budget measures build on the of unmet need will change. many rural health programs already under Under the scheme the Minister will have way. They include State based rural work force the responsibility for identifying the rural and agencies to improve the recruitment and remote communities in the State which have a retention of general practitioners in rural shortage of general practitioners. For this Australia and a range of initiatives to fill gaps in scheme to work properly, that power needs to service delivery of which the Doctors in the stay firmly in the Minister's office. This Bill Bush scheme is only one. recognises that necessity and the Bill provides They also include a broad range of that the Minister may decide that there is an education and training methods designed to area of unmet need in any particular area in strengthen the rural health work force: such rural Queensland. things as the John Quinn scholarship scheme The Bill also provides for a conditional for medical students, the seven university registration which will enable practitioners who departments for rural health, the advanced have fulfilled their obligations under the specialist training posts in rural areas program, Doctors for the Bush scheme to be granted the Australian remote and rural nursing registration conditional upon their continuation scholarship scheme and the population health in general practice, but without any education program for general practitioners geographical limitations. I have much pleasure working in rural areas. They also include in supporting this, too. It will provide an significant funding for services including opportunity for doctors who perhaps do not multipurpose services, Aboriginal services and want to spend their entire working career in the Royal Flying Doctor Service as well as a rural communities to use the Doctors in the major aged care infrastructure, such as nursing Bush scheme as a method to gain registration homes, hostels and community care services. to practise in other areas, as it will be an Of course, the amounts of money incentive for doctors who are trained overseas allocated by the Federal Government while to come to Australia and Queensland and take welcome are never enough, particularly with up a position under the Doctors in the Bush regard to nursing homes, hostels and the scheme for a period and later obtain their provision of aged care in rural communities. It registration to practise in other geographical is a particularly distressing problem for people areas. In fact, the scheme will be a stepping in rural communities as they grow older to be stone to their future careers. We who live in faced with the prospect of having to move rural Queensland can only hope that at least a away from the community in which they have percentage of those doctors will find the spent their entire lives to access nursing home lifestyle and the professional rewards such that and other aged care services. It is particularly they will opt to stay in rural communities and distressing for people at that stage in their life continue their careers there when their to be faced with the prospect of leaving the obligations to the Doctors for the Bush scheme friends and support services that they have have been fulfilled. built up over a lifetime to move to a larger The initiatives contained in this Health centre or a more regional centre to try to Legislation Amendment Bill 1999 are certainly access nursing care and aged care services a step in the right direction. However, nobody which, even in those centres, are in short would suggest that they are going to solve the supply. It is a problem on which many rural problem that many rural communities face. It is communities have taken the initiative and tried a problem that is faced by many rural to address themselves. There needs to be a communities, it is a problem that is faced greater cooperation between the State and across the broad range of health Federal Government in the recognition and the professionals, and it is a problem that is faced addressing of that problem. In my mind it is not just in Queensland. Australians living in quite simple to do. rural and remote areas everywhere face Recently the Minister and I were both at particular difficulties in gaining access to quality the opening of the new Mundubbera Hospital health and aged care. or, as it is more correctly called, the This year the Federal Budget included Mundubbera multipurpose health centre. This $171m over the next four years for a range of facility at Mundubbera is a great example of specific measures to improve access to what is needed in rural communities. The services and strengthen the rural health work facility at Mundubbera not only incorporates force, and that initiative must be welcomed. It the traditional hospital facilities that are, and represents a recognition by the Federal continue to be, funded by the State Government of just how major this problem is. Government, but the building also incorporates 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5263 aged care facilities which are funded by the practise medicine in a rural community than it Federal Government. is to practise in an urban situation. General For a very great number of small rural practitioners in those areas in most cases work communities, that model makes great sense. in professional isolation; they are It makes good economic sense and it makes geographically removed from any support from good sense from a management point of view professional colleges and they are expected to to combine these services in the one building deal with a huge range of medical issues. to provide the traditional hospital services in They are on call 24 hours a day, and I say that one wing of the building and to provide the without any fear of exaggeration at all. They aged care services on the same site so that are on call for quite extended periods of time they can be serviced by the same staff and over long periods of time. the same facilities. The Mundubbera facility is Burn-out is a real problem for doctors a great example and I encourage any member practising in rural communities. It becomes from this House—from either side—to visit that impossible for such GPs to ever get any time particular facility. I would be only too pleased away from their job, to ever get any quality to arrange a visit for anybody with an interest time with their families or to ever get any in the area. It is a great example of what can quality time to spend on other interests. It is be done for combined health services in difficult for them to access the professional smaller communities such as Mundubbera. development type activities which they need to While the provision of aged care facilities keep their skill levels current. It is difficult for is certainly a problem everywhere, the major them to access the type of social interaction problem and the problem that this particular with fellow professionals that all of us need in piece of legislation is aimed at dealing with is our career groups. helping rural communities attract and retain It needs to be realised that, while the general practitioners and other health Federal Government's initiative to provide professionals. The Federal Government to its retention payments for long serving GPs in credit has honoured its election commitment to rural and remote areas will certainly assist in introduce retention payments for long serving the retention of general practitioners in those GPs in rural and remote areas. The Federal areas, there are a lot of other issues involved Budget provided funds of around $43.1m over in the loss of general practitioners from rural four years for this important measure and areas other than financial. As well as making it hopefully a good deal of that money will come financially more attractive to stay in rural to Queensland. communities, the other issues that cause the Rural and remote communities are loss of general practitioners from these areas disadvantaged by the difficulties they face in and that cause the movement of GPs to the attracting and retaining general practitioners. bigger urban areas have to be recognised and At present about half the general practitioners addressed. who move to rural areas remain there for fewer The Federal Government has also, to its than two years. That statistic in itself is the credit, put in place initiatives aimed at problem that we need to address. Retention establishing regional medical schools. In this payments will provide an additional incentive year's Budget, funding of around $18.6m was for general practitioners to continue to practise provided towards the establishment of a in such areas, assisting communities to hold medical school at James Cook University and on to their already established general the clinical school of Wagga Wagga. The practitioners. By encouraging general Federal Government's commitment to provide practitioners to stay longer in rural and remote $10m in capital funding for the new medical locations, the retention payments will enhance school at James Cook University was access to Medicare, create greater stability conditional upon Australian Medical Council and continuity in medical services, and accreditation and it was also matched by the improve health outcomes for Australians living $10m pledged by the Queensland in such areas. It is envisaged that the retention Government. I can only hope that a good payment will be based on the general proportion of students who will make up the practitioner's length of service, the remoteness first intake into that medical school this year will of the area in which they are practising and the be from rural areas and that all of those level of services they provide. students when they graduate can go on to It is important for everyone to understand make an impact on the shortage of doctors in the pressures that are brought to bear on rural areas. general practitioners practising in rural Establishing these medical and clinical communities. It is a very different thing to schools in regional areas that then link with 5264 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 existing educational health resources, such as level of achievement to successfully complete universities and hospitals, is part of an overall medical courses and successfully pursue a policy that hopefully will redress in time the career in medicine. shortage of GPs in rural areas. Hopefully in There needs to be a recognition that time we can redress many of those non- along with a place in our medical schools there financial reasons why GPs have difficulty comes an obligation to provide medical continuing to practise in rural communities for services to the community in the areas where long periods of time. there is a need for medical services. It is to my The other area of assistance that the mind quite logical to argue that places in our Federal Government acknowledged in this medical schools could be reserved for students year's Budget was assistance for rural medical who are prepared to contract to spend a students who wish to pursue a career in portion or all of their careers in rural and medicine. This measure provided ongoing remote areas. I note the Minister's earlier funding of $1m a year for the next four years comments that approximately 30 student to provide medical students from rural areas places are currently offered in this way by the with scholarships to meet their accommodation Queensland Government. and other support costs whilst studying. This to Mrs Edmond: Yes, they are full each my mind is an area which is not being given year. nearly enough emphasis. $1m a year out of the Federal Budget across the whole of Mr SEENEY: They are full scholarships? Australia is really only a drop in the bucket Mrs Edmond: They are full scholarships compared with the type of funding that could and they are bonded. The Commonwealth be directed to this scheme and could be well ones aren't bonded. They are just for a limited used in addressing the very real problems in time and they are not bonded. Ours are four- electorates such as Callide. year scholarships and they are bonded. They serve that time in a centre. Research has been done—and it would seem pretty obvious to me—to the effect that Mr SEENEY: I thank the Minister for students from rural areas are much more likely those comments. I believe that the concept of to return to rural and remote areas to practise a fully bonded scholarship with an obligation to medicine once they have completed their fulfil country service at the completion of the studies and that students who have grown up course is something which there is much in those areas are much more likely to make greater scope for. It is something that we as a their career in those areas. It would seem fairly society can logically argue is fair and obvious that people who have grown up in reasonable. rural communities and understand and The concept of country service upon appreciate the rural lifestyle are much more graduation is one that has been almost likely to spend their working life in such areas, traditional in the education system amongst rather than students who are sourced from our education professionals, and it is one that urban schools and urban backgrounds. can easily be extended to include graduates The Federal Government is claiming that from our medical schools. I believe that many the $1m each year can support up to 100 of our medical graduates who will spend their scholarships per annum. Even without allowing life in urban areas and go on to specialise in for any administration costs in the scheme, particular fields would benefit from a stint as a that represents a scholarship payment of country general practitioner. The experience about $10,000 per student per year. While they could gain in those situations would that is certainly welcomed, it is probably more certainly be valuable to them in their later important to address the issue of basic access careers. to medical courses for students from rural The extent of this problem in rural areas, areas. It is, as most honourable members the extent of this problem in electorates such know, incredibly difficult for students to gain as mine and the extent of the problem of access to medical courses at our universities. ensuring sufficient doctors are available in The demand for places is such that only the these areas is such that initiatives like these very brightest students get access to the are necessary to arrive at any realistic solution. courses that are needed to pursue a career in I support this legislation, but I again make the medicine. It would seem self-evident that, point that much more needs to be done. Much while competition ensures that only the very more needs to be done in a whole range of highest achievers amongst the students get other areas to fully solve this problem. I access to the courses, it is quite possible and commend the Minister for the initiatives quite feasible for students with a slightly lesser contained in this legislation. I urge her to look 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5265 at further measures to address this problem in doctors to the bush. It is a fact that Australia at the future. present has an over supply of doctors, but Dr PRENZLER (Lockyer—ONP) unfortunately in rural areas there is a dramatic (12.32 p.m.): I stand today in this House to under supply of medical services. This give my support and the support of my intolerable situation is unfortunately escalating. colleagues to the Health Legislation It is even becoming a problem in the small Amendment Bill 1999, which covers three regional areas close to Brisbane. I have one different areas of interest to me. The first of example at Boonah in my own electorate. We these areas is the age restriction placed on the have had trouble attracting doctors to the use of herbal cigarettes. I can only agree with hospital there, and we are not very far from the Minister on this issue. These types of Brisbane. cigarettes are specifically targeted at Mrs Edmond: It is hardly remote. teenagers. Although not containing any Dr PRENZLER: Yes, it is hardly remote. addictive substances such as nicotine, they We have just lost one of those doctors and we can cause a lot of damage. Taken in any form, are having trouble getting a replacement, smoke into the lungs is an unhealthy act that which is very unfortunate. causes damage to lung tissue and cells. It is difficult to attract doctors to rural areas Herbal cigarettes are certainly not a healthy for a variety of reasons. Doctors, even once alternative to smoking. established in rural regions, are hard to retain. I doubt that there would be much An extremely heavy workload with long and argument that many teenagers today smoke irregular hours become a necessity in practice due to peer pressures. As cigarettes are in rural and small regional areas. Hours worked unavailable to those under 18 years old, often extend over 24-hour periods and the herbal cigarettes are the next best thing to demand for a doctor's services can be very produce the cool, tough image. That image excessive, especially at certain times. and feeling undoubtedly carry over to the post The Federal Government has in the past 18-year-old mark with the purchase of real conducted many and varied schemes in an cigarettes. This is just one more risk to our attempt to address the shortfall in the bush but youth that should be discouraged. One of the has had only limited success. In fact, a recent ways in which this can be achieved is to stop Federal scheme proposed to provide student the availability of these herbal cigarettes to our doctors with a Medicare provider number only youth. Undoubtedly, any action we can take as after working for five years in rural areas and a Parliament to break this linkage—even if we after they had completed a training program. achieve success in stopping only one of our That was designed to fast-track doctors' youth from sliding into the devastating careers and overcome the shortfall of doctors addiction of smoking—means that this section in rural Australia. of the Bill will have worked very well. Successive Queensland Governments I feel it necessary to comment on the have also attempted to address the problem selfish and irresponsible title of the latest through different types of incentive herbal cigarette to hit the market. It is called arrangements. This Bill is another one of these Ecstasy. The use of this name on these attempts to attract doctors to rural areas, the cigarettes is completely irresponsible and is incentives in this case being the support to most definitely a deliberate action to target the finish an accredited and supervised training teenage market, even the over 18-year-old scheme and an open Medicare provider market. It is a well-known fact that the drug number after five years of service. Although ecstasy is a dangerous, illicit drug. The name this scheme is supported by the Australian alone will increase the sale volumes of these Medical Association, there is some doubt as to herbal cigarettes. Children will see them as an whether or not it will work. I find it a shame that alternative to taking real ecstasy, but that we have to now offer incentives to overseas alternative may become the beginning of a doctors in order to address the shortfall in the new and devastating drug influenced life, bush when there is an adequate supply of something we certainly should not be a party Australian doctors quite capable of servicing to encouraging. these rural regions. The second aim of the Bill is to achieve, Perhaps if successive Governments over by the use of some attractive incentives, the time had not torn the heart out of rural placement of overseas doctors in the Australia in their pig-headed adherence to Australian bush. I have no problem with this economic rationalism, the bush might seem scheme. My initial reaction was to consider more attractive to many more people, what schemes are in place to attract Australian including doctors. Perhaps if successive 5266 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999

Governments had been keen to upgrade Minister again for bringing this legislation rather than destroy services, facilities and before the House. infrastructure in regional areas, we would not Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM (Gladstone—IND) need this legislation. But we have a problem in (12.40 p.m.): I, too, rise to support this rural and regional areas. Considering the legislation. Depending on the definition of definite need for more doctors in the bush and "rural and remote", we have certainly had quite the apparent continued disinterest by a significant problem in getting practitioners Australian doctors to fill this void, I can see no into the Gladstone region. For a long time, we problem with the incentives proposed in this could not get an obstetrician/gynaecologist. legislation. I support it wholeheartedly. Ours left not because there was an I do have some concerns about the long- inadequate amount of work but because there term effectiveness of this scheme and the was too much work. And because there was long-term contributions to the national doctor no-one to back him up, he left out of sheer surplus that this scheme may cause. I also exhaustion. have concerns with the issuing of even more With the move away from deliveries by Medicare provider numbers, which will increase GPs because of high insurance costs, this the cost of Medicare. However, I believe that meant that many women were required to the absolute necessity of ensuring that travel to Rockhampton to give birth. It is only regional and rural Queenslanders are one hour away, but it meant that, socially, the guaranteed an adequate standard of medical family was disconnected for about a week. It care overrides any of these concerns. I was very difficult for dad to take the children to acknowledge that we must try whatever we visit mum after work. So often, for that entire can do to address this problem. I hope, along week after the birth, the family did not see with the member for Callide, that many of much of mum and the new baby, and that these doctors do choose to remain in the bush created its own problems. Now, with the Mater after their five-year term, and I congratulate Hospital, those births that were occurring in the Minister on the Government's training Rockhampton are now returning to Gladstone. scheme. In fact, the 100th birth at the Mater Hospital The third aspect of the Bill seeks an occurred this week. That is a significant improvement in the area of quality assurance achievement. committees for hospitals. I am aware of the We have also had problems attracting benefits that quality assurance committees specialist GPs and anaesthetists—again, not can provide if they are conducted in an because there is not enough work but appropriate manner and if the because there is too much. It is very difficult to recommendations are seriously noted and get the backup to provide some relief during acted upon. The most important point is the the weekend and to take a share of the night quality of care of patients, and these call-outs. According to many definitions, ours committees go a long way towards ensuring would not be a rural or a remote area. that. What concerns me, however, is the However, I think that a very general definition necessity to remove the confidentiality clauses would have to be that anything outside the from those who provide information to these south-east corner of the State, that is, committees. The Minister noted in her second- Caboolture and Ipswich, tends to be an area reading speech that patients are safeguarded that experiences difficulty in attracting those through the confidentiality requirements of the doctors. committees, but I wonder if it is absolutely I, too, commend the Minister for her necessary for these committees to be privy to initiative of the 30 scholarships, and particularly patient identifying information in the first place. the fact that they are bonded. I believe that I note that the Scrutiny of Legislation there would be unanimous and very vocal Committee did not have a problem with this support for that bonding. The fact that there clause, and I take that into consideration. are scholarships is good; it provides training. However, I draw it to the attention of the Previously those people who had been trained House and ask for some assurance from the by the State were given no incentive to make Minister as to how these committees function an investment in the State by serving in rural in relation to the security of this information. and remote Queensland. The bonding does Apart from this small aspect, I believe the that. I am sure that most members have heard legislation will benefit the people of from their communities comments such as, Queensland, particularly those in the rural and "Why don't they go back to the old country regional areas of Queensland. Therefore, I service idea?" As I said, those scholarships will lend my wholehearted support to it. I thank the be greatly welcomed. 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5267

The Doctors for the Bush initiative have all of the country members placarding addresses the obvious problems of getting her office because of the obvious medical staff into remote areas. They do disproportionate access to medical services practise medicine in isolation. They cannot that people in this part of the State get easily call up a fellow doctor to come and have compared to remote and regional areas. I look a look at X-rays. They cannot quickly get forward to the Minister's clarification of what an somebody in to give a second opinion. But I "unmet need" will be defined as. believe that that situation is becoming better I also raise the issue of the confidentiality as technology is developing—technology such of information to the quality assurance as scanning and X-rays which can be read committees. I do not have a great problem from remote areas. I believe that, in great with the fact that they get access to measure, that will give support to some of information. Informed decision making is those new rural doctors. It will remove some of based on accurate information. However, I the isolation and the sense of isolation from understand that the individuals who will be those doctors, particularly the newly qualified identifiable to that committee are not advised ones. When they rotate through their that that information is to be passed on. There scholarships, in many instances they will be on does not seem to be any strong obligation on their own in rural communities, and that will the part of the committee to, at some point in provide a great deal of professional and time, destroy the information or to return it to emotional support for those doctors who are the department or whatever. There seems to on their own. be an open-ended loop as to what could I thank the Minister for the briefings that happen to that information. And depending on her departmental officers gave and their how sensitive it is, correspondingly, it leaves willingness to answer any queries. I am individuals vulnerable. pleased that the Doctors for the Bush program does not preclude Australian doctors; that As I said, I have received a lot of complaints in my electorate about the lack of those positions will still be advertised in the specialist services in particular to our Gazette, and that anybody who wants to apply community. Under some people's definition, and take advantage of the new— Gladstone and Calliope might not be regarded Mrs Edmond: We hope we do get as remote or rural, but when we are trying to Australian doctors. get those medical services in place, we Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM: So do I. There is certainly fall under that umbrella of difficult a good incentive with the shortened period places to fill. I ask the Minister to consider my before which they can get that Medicare area in any unmet needs declarations as the provider number. I welcome the fact that it opportunity arises. does not preclude our local doctors. They My electorate also has problems with probably would get the first opportunity accessing renal units. The closest one is at anyway, given the advertisement through the Rockhampton. I have talked to the Minister Public Service process. about this, but I raise it again, because one of In relation to unmet needs—all the talk the problems with getting a satellite unit in has been about remote and rural areas, but Gladstone is ensuring that there is a specialist there is nothing that actually defines that in the who can oversee that unit. It is my Bill. The discretion to determine what is a rural understanding that there is even some or remote area is the Minister's. problem or risk with the specialist who goes to Mrs Edmond: There is going to be a Rockhampton. From talking with the renal definition. patients and their carers, I have heard that there is a question mark over how long that Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM: Is there? It is not doctor will remain available. in the Bill. I remember asking the question: does that mean that if the Minister chose to The travelling time to Rockhampton is an declare the Royal Brisbane Hospital as an area hour and a quarter up and back, and then the of need, doctors could be allocated to that patients spend three to five hours on the unit. hospital? And for those clients in Gladstone, that is a big ask; it is their entire lifestyle. For three days a Mrs Edmond: Not this week. week, whatever job the carers are doing has to Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM: No, not this be put on hold while they take those patients week. The question was answered quite to Rockhampton. The car pooling idea does honestly; and as the Bill stands, it could be not work, because various patients are on declared an area of need and get those units at different times, and they react to the doctors. However, the Minister would probably treatment differently. Some are quite ill at the 5268 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 end of it. And for them to have to sit around responsibility and an obligation to look more and wait while another patient comes off the closely at the difficulties faced by Queensland. unit and then travel home with one person I would like to commend the action taken responsible for two or three renal patients is a by the Minister in this legislation in relation to huge responsibility for that carer and not smoking. My children first informed me about particularly practical. Ecstasy cigarettes when we were in Brisbane The numbers in Gladstone remain static for a weekend. The children had gone off to on the need for a renal unit simply because so the shops and they returned quite astounded many people move away. They have gone to after seeing Ecstasy cigarettes. They went into Hervey Bay and Maryborough. People have one of those little shops where one goes to come into my office on a number of occasions look at the sort of clothes that 15 year olds like and said, "Look, we are going to shift because to wear and they saw cigarettes with "Ecstasy" we just cannot hack the travelling any more." written on them lying loose in a jar on the So access to specialist services and GP counter. I said, "You must be mistaken." They services in remote and rural Queensland said, "No, Mum, it definitely was." They had a remains a problem, and any steps that the second look to make sure that they were Government and this Minister take to address correct. that are to be commended. I started to make some inquiries about I refer to a newspaper article in which the this matter when the Bill hit the table. I Minister was commenting on the need for commend the Minister for her fast action in this higher levels of Federal Government funding regard. It is not just a question of the for GP services in Queensland. I believe that availability of the cigarettes to the younger Queensland is suffering from the same people; it is the lure of the cigarettes as well— complaint as those of us who live in the Mrs Edmond: It's the way they advertise regions accuse south-east-corner it, too. Queenslanders of, that is, that vision that the Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM: Yes. State ends at Ipswich and Caboolture. The Feds seem to think that the country ends in Dr Prenzler: And the name. Melbourne and Sydney—and perhaps a Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM: Yes, and the minute part of Brisbane, if we get a squeak name. It is subtle in some instances. It is in—without realising, intentionally or otherwise, almost a subconscious enticement into that our State is diverse. Comments of cigarette smoking. With due respect to negotiation, I suppose, more so than threat members of this Chamber who smoke—and were made that one of the options available to their sensitivities—it has been authoritatively State hospitals is to turn non-urgent patients documented that smoking causes health away and get them to access their GPs. problems. Anyone who knows someone with emphysema or another smoking-related Mrs Edmond: We did say we would not illness, or anyone who has watched someone do that. dying from lung cancer, would realise that any Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM: I know. I was action that the Government takes to restrict going to refer to that later. But the trouble with access to cigarettes by young children is worth that is that it is a cyclical argument. We have while. This action has to be taken in an this Bill before the House today because there endeavour to reduce the numbers of young is a recognition that there are not enough GPs people who will eventually turn into adults who in country areas. smoke. Some people might consider that even this legislation is not sufficient. The pain is The Commonwealth Government certainly endured not only by the sufferers but also by needs to take into account—not theoretically their families, who have to sit by and see their but practically—the difficulties that Queensland loved one suffer. faces with regard to obtaining medical services. The State Government, irrespective I again congratulate the Minister on her of its political make-up, should not have to prompt action in this legislation with regard to threaten a reduction in or the removal of cigarette smoking. I am sure that many young health care services to our own residents people, as they grow into adulthood, will be because the Commonwealth will not thankful for their better health as a result of the acknowledge the diversity and distance Minister's actions. involved in one of Australia's States. Health Dr CLARK (Barron River—ALP) care, and one's state of health, is fundamental (12.53 p.m.): It is a pleasure to participate in to one's quality of life. I believe that the the debate on the Health Legislation Commonwealth Government has a Amendment Bill. It is also a pleasure to 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5269 participate in a debate which has bipartisan interns, once again, in hospitals when they support. It is a clear demonstration that we all knew that they had the necessary skills. These recognise the importance of getting medical were hoops through which such doctors were services into the bush and having doctors not prepared to jump. In addition, of course, available for small rural communities. This is a they could not obtain an unrestricted Medicare matter on which the House is united. As I say, provider number until 10 years after they it is a pleasure to see all members getting commenced practice in Australia. Once again, behind the Minister's initiatives in this regard. I that was just too much to ask of people. Who commend her for the hard work that she has can require a person to make a commitment put into making the Doctors for the Bush 10 years in advance? scheme a reality. Under this scheme it has been recognised We all know how hard it is to negotiate that these obstacles are too enormous and with the medical profession and the people they have been largely removed for overseas- who hold the power in those particular areas in trained doctors who have suitable order to achieve a situation in which we have qualifications in general practice and who are the flexibility that is required to ensure that prepared to sign a binding commitment to such a scheme is a success. The Minister's work in specified rural or remote communities actions are a testament to her commitment for five years. It is not asking too much of the and dedication on behalf of people in rural and doctors to make that five-year commitment. remote Queensland. Indeed, I believe that one needs five years in Interruption. a remote community to really be part of that community. It takes that time to be accepted and to develop the kinds of relationships that DISTINGUISHED VISITORS one needs to develop in order to be really effective in rural and remote communities. Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER (Ms Nelson- Carr): Order! I would like to recognise some During that period, postgraduate training people in the Speaker's Gallery, namely His opportunities and support will be provided for Excellency Mr Gabby Levy and his wife, Mrs doctors in order to assist them to obtain an Levy. Mr Levy is the Ambassador for Israel. Australian qualification in general practice. Doctors who fulfil their contractual obligations Honourable members: Hear, hear! under the scheme and obtain a relevant Australian qualification in general practice will HEALTH LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL be able to continue in general practice with no geographical restrictions and will not need to Second Reading pass the Australian Medical Council Dr CLARK: As I was saying, the Doctors examinations. In addition, they will be eligible for the Bush scheme is aimed at recruiting and to be granted permanent residency status— retaining increased numbers of overseas- something which is very much sought after by trained doctors and Australian medical those doctors and something which is an graduates in rural and remote areas of the enormous incentive to them—and an State by removing the barriers which prevent unrestricted Medicare provider number. The doctors from practising in the bush. The cooperation between the State Government Queensland initiative is unique. The Western and the Federal Government is the hallmark of Australian scheme, as I understand it, focuses this particular scheme. I know how difficult it is only on overseas doctors; whereas in to get cooperation on an issue which is so Queensland we wanted to ensure that we had significant and so important. I commend the a scheme that would encourage all doctors, Minister for the work that she has undertaken who choose to work in rural areas, to have the on behalf of rural Queenslanders. utmost encouragement and support. For the scheme to be implemented—and Overseas-trained general practitioners this is the reason why we are debating this who want to practise in the bush have faced particular legislation—amendments were enormous obstacles. For example, they were required to the Medical Act to allow overseas- unable to practise without geographical trained doctors to be recruited under the restrictions. They were also unable to obtain scheme and to be registered under the Act. permanent residency status unless they Practitioners will only be able to be registered passed the examinations set by the Australian by the Medical Board if registration is for the Medical Council. Doctors were never prepared purpose of enabling the requirements of an to go through all of those examinations when unmet area of need to be met. The Medical they themselves knew that they had excellent Board currently has the responsibility of qualifications. They were not prepared to be deciding if an unmet area of need exists. As 5270 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 members have indicated during the debate, Dr CLARK: Prior to the luncheon recess I this responsibility will now be given to the was making reference to an American doctor, Minister, who will have the power to decide John Wohler, at Malanda. I will conclude that whether there is an unmet area of need. The part of my contribution this afternoon by saying member for Gladstone suggested that that if all the overseas doctors whom perhaps the Minister might declare Brisbane Queensland manages to attract are of his an area of unmet need. I can assure the calibre, we will be very well served by them. I member for Gladstone that that is not likely to commend him for his commitment and occur, given the feelings and commitment on involvement with the tableland community. this side of the House to rural and regional Although the Doctors of the Bush areas of Queensland. The same remarks Scheme is the centrepiece of the legislation, it apply, I am sure, to honourable members on represents one part of a comprehensive the other side of the House. The Minister strategy that we are putting in place to improve would never attempt to put forward such a medical services to rural and remote proposal. communities. I commend the Minister for the The Bill also inserts a new ground for range of initiatives that has been provided. In registration under the Act which will enable the seeking some assistance from a briefing from ongoing registration of practitioners recruited the department in preparing for this debate under the scheme who obtain the relevant this afternoon, I asked for a summary of all the Australian qualification in general practice. I different schemes. Some 20 different initiatives had an interesting conversation this morning were outlined to me. When the member for with an American doctor, Dr John Wohler, who Callide was speaking in this House earlier and resides in Malanda. I am convinced that this stated that much more needed to be done, I scheme will be very effective and will allow Dr wondered whether he appreciated the range Wohler to achieve his goal. Dr Wohler and his of initiatives that are already in place, including wife—who acts as his nurse and the four-year bonded scholarships, the Junior receptionist—are an American couple, based Doctor Training Program, the various financial in Hawaii, where they can earn enormous incentives that exist for doctors and the salaries. However, they have chosen to travel innovative models of service delivery, such as the world, working in such places as Africa and telemedicine. India where their skills are enormously in Members might be surprised to know that demand and are highly valued. Dr Wohler at our last audit, which was carried out in came to Australia and acted initially as a locum November 1998, approximately 130 in Malanda following the departure of Dr Digby telemedicine units were in place across Hoyal, who went to Nepal with his wife. Queensland. Apparently the figure has grown Dr and Mrs Wohler thought that they had since then. Only 25% of all usage is for clinical discovered paradise. They really appreciated purposes, which amounts to about 400 hours working in a small community in the tablelands a month. However, that usage has increased area. As soon as they heard about this from 13% in 1997 to 25% in 1999. Over 70% particular scheme, they embraced it. Dr Wohler of that usage occurs outside of south-east appreciates the opportunity of having his Queensland. The clinical fields that have been qualifications recognised. He is one of the shown to use telemedicine effectively are doctors who said that he would not jump mental health, ophthalmology and radiology. It through the hoops that I referred to. He is now is particularly pleasing that the radiology embracing the scheme, because it means that applications for telemedicine are to be he can practise here. He can get a Medicare expanded to connect the sites of St George, provider number. He is very happy to commit Roma, Mount Isa, Weipa, Thursday Island, five years of his life, because he gets so much Maryborough and Hervey Bay to receiving satisfaction from working in such communities. sites at the Princess Alexandra Hospital, the At the end of the day, when he goes home, Royal Brisbane Hospital, Townsville and he knows that he has provided care to people Cairns. They will be up and running this year. who appreciate it. He does not have to have X-rays, scans and ultrasounds can be the gruelling African or Indian experience of transmitted to specialists in Brisbane, Cairns seeing children in desperate need. As he was and Townsville for expert second opinion. telling me this morning, he believes that it is a Those sorts of innovations are really making a wonderful privilege to be working here in difference to what is happening in the bush. Australia. If I may, I will finish my remarks after Additional incentives for specialists have lunch. been helpful to not only rural and remote Sitting suspended from 1 p.m. to areas but also to provincial hospitals. That has 2.30 p.m. been an issue in Cairns. We have had a 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5271 shortage of specialists. To reduce that Cairns and with the Minister. Even on that shortage, we have needed to work with the score I am looking forward to a positive professional colleges to extend the number of resolution. specialist training places available in I congratulate the Minister on these Queensland. When I was previously the initiatives, particularly the Doctors in the Bush member for Barron River, that was an ongoing Scheme. They will significantly improve the issue. We were finding it very difficult to get the quality of our medical services in our rural and kind of cooperation that we needed from those remote areas. That can only serve the whole professional colleges. It is very encouraging to of Queensland well. I support the Bill. know that we have made some progress in that regard. We have had a major Mr MITCHELL (Charters Towers—NPA) improvement in the remuneration and (2.36 p.m.): I will speak briefly to the Health advertising of vacant positions for full-time Legislation Amendment Bill of 1999 and medical specialist staff. That has resulted in specifically to the amendments to the Medical many provincial hospitals now filling their Act in relation to rural doctors. I will not cover previously vacant positions. Since June the ground already covered by previous 1995—when I was last the member for Barron speakers. We know the problems that exist. River in this place—there has been a steady This legislation is a great attempt to cover reduction in the number of specialist vacancies many of the anomalies in the bush. I am from 125 to only 32 in March of this year. That pleased to see these amendments to the is despite the creation of 27 new specialist legislation. I believe they will alleviate the positions since June of last year. That we are problems we have currently with shortages of now able to attract those specialists into our doctors in rural and remote Queensland. It has hospitals is a clear indication that our policies always been difficult to attract doctors to those are working. Everybody is benefiting in the areas. It seemed that overseas doctors were regional and rural areas. the only ones interested in doing time in the bush. We do get some Australian doctors out I would like to commend the Minister for there, but it is very difficulty. Overseas doctors her personal involvement in getting the James were restricted, because by law they were Cook University Medical School up and unable to be registered to practise without running. Sixty places will be provided. Doctors geographical restrictions or to obtain will have their training in the north. As a result, permanent residency status unless they they will be much more likely to stay there and passed the examinations set by the Australian practise once they have learned first-hand Medical Council. That was in addition to the about the advantages of the lifestyle and the main hurdle of not being able to obtain an advantages of living in a rural or regional area. unrestricted Medicare provider number until 10 It is most likely that they will come from north years after they commence to practise in Queensland where all their family ties are. That will make an enormous difference. We in the Australia. Cairns area are looking forward to the benefits I am very pleased with the Doctors for the that will flow from having that medical school Bush scheme that has been initiated by up and running. Queensland Health and the Commonwealth Even with all the initiatives that have been Government. I acknowledge the efforts of the described today, there are still occasions when Deputy Prime Minister, Mr John Anderson, in people have to come to Brisbane for specialist assisting to cut through some of the red tape medical treatment. I will conclude by at a Federal level to see this scheme become mentioning a local case with which I have a reality. I am sure it will go a long way towards been involved. Crystal La Spina has had a to solving some of the problems in the bush. cochlear implant. She has had that for quite a Over the past few years, the Charters number of years. She is in the desperate Towers electorate has been affected on many situation of requiring a third implant. There occasions by not being able to retain doctors have been problems with the other two. I have in the smaller centres, mainly Julia Creek and been working with the family of little Crystal to Richmond. We have even had problems ensure that she is able to access that attracting full-time doctors and other medical treatment. I am pleased to report to the House staff to Charters Towers, which is far from that just yesterday I heard some good news. remote. I am sure the new scheme will work The Royal Children's Hospital in Brisbane is towards solving those problems. I am surprised going to provide that implant for her. There are that people think that once one is above the still some issues that I need to resolve in range one is in rural Queensland. Charters relation to the Patient Transit Scheme. I am Towers is only 120 kilometres from the coast. It taking those up with the relevant people in is not a bad place to live if anyone wants to 5272 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 come and join us there. Only four months ago, having in rural and regional and northern we lost a doctor in Richmond. The current Queensland. In the meantime, through this doctor was to relieve until a decision was made legislation, overseas doctors will now be able about provider numbers. The doctor really liked to fill this void—which has always been there Richmond and was very keen to stay. and has always been a problem— However, he was also offered a position in permanently. Once again, I thank the Minister Western Australia where apparently legislation and Queensland Health for their swift action to was already under way. The town of Richmond see this anomaly rectified and to retain our was in an uproar. When the doctor advised doctor in Richmond. I commend the Bill to the that he was heading to Western Australia for House. an interview, which he duly did, my phone was Mr SLACK (Burnett—NPA) (2.42 p.m.): I running hot for a good day and a half. Three will not speak for very long to this Bill, except to days later I visited every business house in endorse the remarks made by the Opposition town and a few people down the street. The spokesperson and to support the Bill. I have only topic of discussion was retaining the sat on a hospital board for several years and, doctor. He was well liked and he liked the like many speakers before me, I have place, too. However, we thought there was experienced the problems caused by a lack of that little problem. doctors in the bush. Although we all know that I must thank Queensland Health for their that is a problem for those areas, we find that quick response to my letter on behalf of the that problem is being experienced in the more community of Richmond, stating that the populated, provincial cities on the coast. That legislation would be in place as soon as is a great concern. Recently, I received a letter possible and giving us a guarantee that, on his from a private practitioner in Bundaberg who return from his interview in Western Australia, stated that, currently, there are 60 doctors our doctor in Richmond would remain with this servicing the Bundaberg population of about guarantee that, come January, we would have 50,000. The letter stated further that, in round something in place. The Minister and her figures, that number of doctors was expected department have acted quickly and I am very, to drop to 40 by Christmas, which would mean very happy with that. I can say that we have a a blow-out in the ratio of one doctor per 1,400 very happy community in Richmond because or 1,500 to one doctor per 2,000 people. of those actions. When one considers the attributes of a city such as Bundaberg, which is close to the I must admit that I thought the situation coast, not far from Brisbane and all of those had been fixed a few years ago. However, sorts of things, it must be a real concern to the once I looked into it a bit, I realised that there Minister and the Health Department—as it is to was only a temporary provider number for all the people in that particular area—that the locums when relieving in these centres. So it problem of getting doctors to go into the bush was a surprise to me, when I started getting has now extended to regional provincial these phone calls, that this was actually centres. No doubt, doctors and Health happening. I am also pleased to see that this Department officials could advance many scheme is specifically for the bush—at this reasons for why there is a shortage of doctors stage, anyway—and is not to be expanded to in those areas. provincial centres. It guarantees that a doctor will serve a five-year stint in rural communities. I know that all political parties recognise That will ensure the continuity of medical this problem and are attempting to do services for the people in these towns. something about it. In that regard, I refer to the Doctors for the Bush scheme. Although I wish to put on record my sincere thanks that schemes helps to address the problem of to all the doctors and all the other medical staff the shortage of doctors in the bush, it is not who work in rural communities. As has been going to solve that problem. In my book, it is a said before, on numerous occasions they have stopgap measure that provides some relief to work in very adverse conditions, for very and alleviates a problem. However, the long hours and in circumstances that are well problem is ongoing and I believe that we need and truly above the call of duty to provide a other measures. I know that the Minister wonderful service to rural and remote recognises that. Queensland. I would also like to say that, although I believe that the rural doctors' training many speakers before me have congratulated centre, which will be incorporated in the new the Minister on her initiative in this legislation, I Townsville Hospital in conjunction with James dispute the fact that it was the Minister's Cook University, will in the future alleviate initiative. Although I compliment the Minister these staff problems that we have been on supporting the Commonwealth's scheme, I 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5273 do not think that the Minister could claim credit clause are extended to apply to provincial city for the scheme as such. areas, then obviously we are going to have Mrs Edmond: Yes, I can. Our scheme is more difficulty getting those same doctors who asking the other States to follow it. would qualify under this scheme to service areas such as Richmond, Hughenden, Mr SLACK: I take on board what the Gayndah, Eidsvold, or wherever. I can see Minister has said. Doctor Stable nodding. He understands the Mrs Edmond: The Commonwealth is problem, as we all do. following our scheme. The point that I am really making is that Mr SLACK: I have posed the question on the problem of a shortage of doctors is the record, and I accept the Minister's answer. developing in provincial cities. So we need The specific reason that I rose to speak to measures by which we can encourage doctors this Bill relates to the matter of the definition. to go into those areas. Where there is an In the Minister's second-reading speech, she acute shortage developing or there are special stated— circumstances, could the provisions of this Bill apply? "The Commonwealth has made it clear that unrestricted provider numbers I support the Bill and commend the will not be granted under the scheme to Minister for her efforts to tackle this problem overseas trained doctors in provincial that the Commonwealth, the State and the centres and that other strategies will need other parties involved have tried to work to be developed to address shortages of through. general practitioners in those centres. Mr JOHNSON (Gregory—NPA) . . . (2.48 p.m.): I rise to speak to this Bill and to The Act is to be amended to provide support it, as has the honourable member for that the Minister may decide there is an Maroochydore and shadow Minister. It is very 'unmet area of need'. The amendments gratifying to see a bipartisan approach to this clarify in what circumstances the Minister legislation. I want to speak briefly about may make such a decision." medical practitioners in rural and remote areas. I represent a large area of western Then in the Bill itself—and no doubt this will Queensland and remote Queensland, which come up during the Committee stage— has experienced problems in trying to attract reference is made to the circumstances in doctors to places such as Aramac and my which the Minister may make a decision as to home town of Quilpie. Dr Ross Hetherington what constitutes an area of need. The Bill spent some 10 years in Winton, but he moved states— away because of the education needs of his "... the Minister may decide there is an children. That is very understandable. The unmet area of need relating to a medical same can be said for Dr Tom Murphy, who service if the Minister considers there are gave some 30 years of medical— insufficient medical practitioners practising Mr Schwarten: He could easily have in the State or part of the State to provide been a specialist down here. the service at a level that meets the needs of people living in the State or the Mr JOHNSON: Absolutely. I was just part of the State." coming to that. I will pick up on the Honourable Minister's interjection directly. Dr Murphy has The member for Gladstone has asked how the spent 30-odd years providing medical Minister is going to apply that clause. For treatment to the people of Longreach and the instance, if one can demonstrate that, in a city central-west. I have no doubt that Dr Rod the size of Bundaberg—which is developing an Stable, the Director-General of Health, would acute shortage of doctors—overseas doctors be aware of Dr Lou Ariotti, who worked as a are prepared to go there or are there already, specialist surgeon in Charleville for many could their period of stay in that area be years. He has retired and now lives in extended through an exemption granted by Toowoomba. As the honourable member for the Minister in terms of this clause? I ask the Rockhampton has alluded to, both Dr Ariotti Minister: how will this clause apply in those and Dr Murphy could have been specialists, particular circumstances? but they chose to dedicate virtually their whole I can appreciate, as can no doubt the medical careers to rural health. Doctors such other members of the House, that if that as Dr Ross Finnimore and Dr Bob Spence provision is used widely one could run into the have been working as flying surgeons and problem referred to by the member for they have been joined by numerous other Charters Towers, that is, if the terms of this doctors. 5274 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999

In the early days of the Goss Government The new concept of the rural doctor there was an inquiry into ambulance services scheme will certainly only enhance rural health. in the State. That was a joint parliamentary I congratulate the former Minister, Mike Horan, select committee, chaired by the current for recognising and identifying the role of the Deputy Premier, Jim Elder. That inquiry rural faculty of medicine that he initiated in brought about a very important and beneficial Roma. I know Dr Stable and the Minister change in ambulance services throughout support the concept. It is absolutely Queensland. It brought a lot of the hospital paramount that we recognise the efforts of board ambulances under the QAS banner, people like Dr Ariotti and Dr Murphy, and Dr which I think was advantageous to the people Jim Baker who worked for many years service being serviced by those ambulances. as a general practitioner in Blackall and, in The changes that are occurring now in latter years, has been the flying gynaecologist rural medicine are, in a large part, thanks to based in Roma. That man has provided a the work of John Anderson, the Queensland magnificent and very creditable service to rural Health Minister and other Health Ministers from women over a long period. Again, Dr Baker throughout the Commonwealth. I pay tribute to could have easily worked as a specialist on the John Anderson. It is very important that we Gold Coast, the Sunshine Coast, in Brisbane recognise the role that he is playing as Deputy or in Cairns, but he chose Roma. He provided Prime Minister and as Minister for Regional that service at all hours of the day and night. I Services. He has visited western Queensland salute Dr Baker for that. on five occasions since coming to that I can take members back a little with a position. I salute him for that, because he is story about Dr Baker. In 1964 I was struck certainly identifying with the problems down with Q fever. If any member has ever confronted not only by rural people but by had Q fever, they will know what an awful people across the length and breadth of this ailment it is. At the time I could not have cared great country of ours. It is great that we have if I died. I spent 10 days in the Tambo somebody of his stature in Cabinet, so that we Hospital. I had a temperature of about 104. can make representations to him and he can Every five minutes the nurses had me in a cold identify where the problems are. bath, trying to get my temperature down. I There is nothing more important than remember that Polo Prince won the Melbourne health and good health services. We are very Cup in 1964. I only had a few bob with me at lucky to have the wonderful doctors, nurses the time. A couple of Hungarian fellows who and hospitals that we have throughout the worked for my brother were building a fence length and breadth of this great nation. We around the hospital. I got the boys to back this need only look at some of the things that are horse for me at 12 to 1. In those days, the happening as close as East Timor, which is couple of quid that I had was a lot of money only a few hundred kilometres from our for a bloke who did not have much. northern shores, to show us how lucky we are. Mrs Edmond: Why did you need a cold We can look at Third World countries, and shower? places such as Bosnia and Kosovo to see how Mr JOHNSON: Because I had a lucky we are. We should continue to work temperature of 104. I will come back to Dr together to enhance those services and, in Baker. It was great to win that 24 quid. common with the committee of inquiry into ambulance services to which I referred, we A Government member: Did you have it must continue to work in this vein. By doing SP or TAB? that, we can certainly improve our health Mr JOHNSON: I will talk about that later. services and the presence of medical My point is that Dr Jim Baker is another man practitioners in rural areas. who has dedicated virtually all of his medical I say to the Minister that I know how life to servicing inland Queensland. That shows difficult it is to attract doctors to some remote the quality and depth of many of the people areas and I am aware of the costs involved. who have given that commitment and I salute However, as my colleague the member for those people. Burnett just said, if one looks at the number of I should also mention the flying doctors. I doctors servicing a population, remote areas know about the costs involved in keeping the form one part of the equation. For example, Flying Doctor Service in the air, with upgrading places such as Aramac and Tambo have aircraft, introducing modern technology and so populations of 500 people. While they might on. It is a fantastic service. My wife and two be only 70 kilometres, 100 kilometres or 200 daughters have been the beneficiaries of the kilometres from larger centres, it is absolutely Flying Doctor Service on different occasions. vital that they have the services of a doctor. That is one part of the health services in this 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5275

State and nation that we certainly must Mr Schwarten: We're all going to get old. applaud. Mr JOHNSON: The member is absolutely I see that the member for Kallangur and right. Unfortunately, my parents are no longer former Minister for Health, Ken Hayward, is in with me. However, many honourable members the Chamber. It was during Ken Hayward's and other people around the State have aged time as Health Minister that we saw the family members. It is our responsibility, both introduction of mobile mammography units in individually and collectively, to make sure that Queensland. That is a fantastic concept. I do we give elderly people the quality of life that not know how many women's lives have been they deserve in their twilight years. saved by having access to those Mr Schwarten: And keep them in their mammography units, which provide breast community. screening in or in close proximity to women's home towns. That is a wonderful initiative. It Mr JOHNSON: As the Minister said, we has saved a lot of people much expense and should keep them in their community. I travel, and it has saved a lot of heartache and support the legislation and I thank honourable trauma for women wondering whether or not members for their time this afternoon. they have an ailment. I say to Ken Hayward Hon. W. M EDMOND (Mount Coot-tha) and the Government of the time that the (Minister for Health) (3.01 p.m.), in reply: I initiative is still embraced by rural women, who thank all honourable members for their support regard it as a very significant breakthrough in in trying to address the ongoing and difficult rural women's health in recent years. I put that problem of equity for rural residents. I join with on the record today. the member for Gregory in acknowledging the I should also mention children's health wonderful work done by doctors in the bush. and the flying paediatrician services that visit As a classic example of the wonderful work isolated areas. All such services are doing a that they do, I note that Dr Ariotti delivered Neil wonderful job. I pay tribute to the nurses and Roberts at the Charleville Hospital in the allied health staff who work in rural 1955—something for which all honourable hospitals. It is paramount that we retain those members are very grateful. services. Mr Roberts: One of his great At the same time, both sides of the contributions to society. House should be working together closely to Mrs EDMOND: What a great contribution make certain that we adopt a bipartisan to society. approach not only to rural and remote health but also health around the State in general so Mr Schwarten: Who did he deliver? that we can be at the pinnacle of success in Mrs EDMOND: Neil Roberts. respect of worldwide medical treatment. Some Mr Schwarten: He's got a lot to answer of the specialist services that we have in for. Brisbane, Townsville and other major centres around the State are equal to or better than Mrs EDMOND: I do not think it is fair to those anywhere else in the world. I think we hold all of the doctors in the bush responsible are very lucky. I support this piece of for certain other deliveries. legislation. I applaud the Minister and all those It is important that we all join together in associated with making the rural doctors recognising the problems that we have in faculty a reality. I look forward to working getting doctors out of the south-east corner. closely with the Minister to overcome any The Federal Government tells us that there are anomalies. too many trained doctors. I dispute its number I wish also to touch on my pet subject of crunching, because I do not think it has taken aged care. Irrespective of where we live, aged into account the changing work force and the care is an important issue to us all. I made fact that 50% of medical graduates are now representations to John Anderson and Bruce women, many of whom work only part time. I Scott to try to obtain some money for the am not knocking them for that. I think it is upgrading of the Central Highlands Nursing wonderful that they can do so. However, the Home in Emerald. We were able to get a Commonwealth still counts them as full-time million dollars for it. qualified doctors, even though they may be working one day a week. This contributes to Mrs Edmond: And for our fair share of the problem of finding doctors who are subsidies. prepared to go out of the south-east corner Mr JOHNSON: That is right. This is and into regional and bush areas. I thank all important to each and every one of us. honourable members for their support. 5276 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999

I wish to touch on a bit of the history of 124 doctors gave recognition in Victoria as the this legislation. In my summing-up, I wish to basis for their mutual recognition application in give fairly detailed answers to a lot of the Queensland. Those figures show that the ratio questions raised—and there were many of doctors coming to Queensland versus those genuine questions involving fine detail— going to Victoria is at least ten to one. because honourable members have I wish to remind honourable members supported the Bill so wholeheartedly. This that the limits on GP training places were not program was proposed by Queensland to the imposed by the State; they were imposed by Commonwealth after we read in the the Commonwealth in the belief that there are newspaper—it was not made available to us too many trained doctors. The number is before that—of a partial scheme being limited to 400 Australiawide. Seventy-nine announced by Western Australia. However, training places have been identified for the Western Australian scheme was targeted Queensland. However, even those places are only at overseas-trained doctors, the tiny under threat, because they are determined at minority of whom already had postgraduate a national level by the Royal Australian College qualifications. The number of doctors involved of GPs. Recently, about half of those positions would have been only about five. The number were handed over to New South Wales, of people who were prepared to come to Victorian and South Australian graduates Queensland who already had postgraduate ahead of Queensland graduates. I kicked up qualifications was so small that we recognised one hell of a fuss about that, and I hope that that we needed to make a significant change all honourable members support my doing to that proposal. I was also determined that we that. I found that outrageous. If the number of were not going to disadvantage Australian- postgraduate training positions in Queensland qualified doctors who were prepared to go to is limited to 79 or 80, I think those places the bush. However, we wanted to create an should be available to Queensland graduates opportunity whereby all suitably qualified who want positions in country hospitals. doctors who were prepared to go to the bush Although this is being managed at present in a could speed up getting their postgraduate fairly cumbersome way, there is still a major qualifications and their provider numbers. concern that it will continue to undermine I now understand that, following Queensland GP numbers if the Queensland putting forward this proposal to Commonwealth and the Royal Australian the Commonwealth, when I verbally briefed College of GPs allow it to continue. I have put the Minister in May, just before I announced a proposal through the department and it—it took till September before we actually got directly to the Royal Australian College of GPs a written response—the Minister spoke to the for a way around that so that this State gets its National Farmers Federation and a number of fair share of Queenslanders into Queensland other groups, praising the Queensland training positions. Unless we do this, we will scheme and urging other States to follow suit. always miss out by virtue of greater numbers I understand also that Western Australia has going to Victoria and New South Wales. now decided to adopt Queensland's more That little stunt came very closely on the comprehensive proposal. However, that also heels of an attempt by the Commonwealth means that it will need to go ahead with Minister for DEETYA to defund the University legislative changes in the new year. We of Queensland by 20 medical places for the welcome the support of the Commonwealth for next two years on the basis that we were going Queensland's proposal. We would welcome it to be opening up the James Cook University in an even more tangible form, such as Medical School next year. But it did not take ongoing funding to help provide the program. into account—and it is the same old problem Unfortunately, we do not have that. However, that we always face; down in Canberra they we certainly feel encouraged by its verbal think the world stops at the outskirts of support. Canberra—the fact that the James Cook Any discussion of doctors being poached University Medical School is planning to run a by other States is highly emotive. However, we six-year program. The University of need to look at some of the facts. The only Queensland has a four-year program. If the way that we can judge the number of doctors number of people going into the University of moving interstate is to look at registration Queensland program is cut next year and the numbers. If we look at the registration year after, that would mean that there would numbers for the 12 months up to June 1999, be two years when we would be down 20 we find that only 11 doctors gave registration places each year before James Cook in Queensland as the basis for their mutual University came on stream. Luckily, urgent recognition application in Victoria. However, action was taken in the media by me and 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5277 other players. We acted vigorously in response advertising in such an outrageous way as the to that outrageous move and managed to Ecstasy ones, which led to this legislation overturn it. being introduced. Underresourcing is a constant problem I am pleased to say that this legislation facing Queensland. Historically, under Federal will pick up all of the other types of non- Governments from both sides of politics, we tobacco type smoking products. There is one have been underresourced by about 40 called beedies. If anyone knows how to medical places a year. That has had a pronounce that better than I do, I accept that. considerable impact over time. It means that As a non-smoker in a family of non-smokers, I Queensland is by far the biggest player in have to rely on the written information. It was trying to attract overseas trained or interstate raised with me that many kids think that doctors to Queensland to fill our positions. beedies are safe because they are called Each year about 400 or more places around herbal cigarettes. In fact, some researchers this State are filled by overseas-trained doctors have found that as many as half of the kids or temporary visa doctors, compared with the smoking them were not aware of the high situation in Western Australia where the nicotine and tar content. Some of them were number is about 80. I think in Victoria it is even using them to help them stop smoking. negligible; their idea of rural and remote is an In fact, the impact of smoking them is just as hour and a half outside of Melbourne. So the dangerous as smoking cigarettes. issues that we face in Queensland are far We also know that, because they often more serious. come from Third World countries, they do not Certainly tackling the difficulties of health have the same safeguards in terms of practitioners in rural areas is a key issue for me residues of toxic substances, etc., in them and and my Government. This legislation is just have very, very poor quality control. A point to one reform, along with the recommendations remember when we are tackling the issue of of the nursing task force that we accepted children smoking is that, according to statistics yesterday, for example, rural scholarships for from the United States, teens who smoke are nurses, which will help encourage people from 22 times as likely to use cocaine, eight times rural areas into nursing, and also to have them as likely to smoke pot and three times as likely bonded so that they go back to rural areas to drink alcohol. They are probably very similar after they finish training. statistics to what we would have in Australia. I suggest that the member for I thank the member for Western Downs Maroochydore really needs to do more than for his support for the legislation. I assure him read the headlines of the Courier-Mail. If she that the quality of services in his area will be read the article in the Courier-Mail, as the maintained. He at least seems to understand member for Gladstone rightly acknowledged that significant changes in practice have taken and had done, she would have known that the place as a result of technology advances and Beattie Government has never threatened to that change is part of a progressing world, not treat patients. The article actually indicated instead of just opposing it. I understand and I that, while that was an option, it was not one know of the issues he has with the Injune that the Beattie Labor Government would ever doctor and the difficulties of attracting doctors pursue, and it went on to give other ways the there. I understand that negotiations are problem should be addressed. If the member taking place at a very high level to work out a is interested, she should obtain a copy of the fair response to that situation. He also submission to the Senate inquiry which details recognised the difficulties of attracting the very legitimate argument put forward by professional people to remote areas, and it is the Queensland Government and the effect not just a case of funding; it is as much about that this has on Queenslanders, especially social and professional isolation issues as rural Queenslanders,. I know a lot of other anything else. members on the other side of the House are The member for Mansfield expanded on very interested in supporting that. the need for further legislation to restrict I thank members for their support for the juvenile smoking, and I indicate to him that legislation in relation to restriction of smoking there will be a campaign on smoking by juveniles. In introducing this legislation, I awareness early next year. It will also let actually found out a lot more than I ever retailers know of these new legislative needed to know or ever did know about herbal changes. cigarettes. I actually did not know that there I thank the member for Warrego for his were already a range of varieties out there in support. Some of the members opposite have the marketplace, even though they were not been quite outspoken in their local media in 5278 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 expressing their support for this legislation, and this he will be amused—to the fact that the I thank them for that. I acknowledge that there Commonwealth actually announced its is no magic wand to solve all the problems, but agreement to the Mundubbera proposal on 26 this legislation is a significant step forward. October 1999, some many months after it had I also thank the member for Callide for his been completed, opened and operating and, I support. I note that communities can also help think, indeed full. I am sure that everybody to attract doctors to their area by making would agree that that was a tad tardy. doctors who do go out in the bush feel However, I will keep on trying. I do think that welcome as part of the community and, of they are the model for country areas. I think course, to actually use them. Sometimes that Gin Gin is another area for which we people want to have a local doctor in there should pursue this model. area, but then they continue to go to another Some members have also mentioned the doctor in another town. Of course, if they are Commonwealth medical students scholarships not going to use the local GP, it may not be and seem to be unaware of the more economically viable for that doctor to stay extensive Queensland scholarships. For the there. We have certainly seen examples of information of those members, I point out that that. The doctor at Howard leaving was one of in this year's Budget we increased the those situations. The people of Howard scholarship fund from $1.088m to $2.443m, wanted a doctor, but they continued to go to and the introduction of four-year scholarships Maryborough or Hervey Bay and see the to ensure longer bonded periods will result in doctor there when they did their shopping. 30 medical scholarship holders graduating I also note that this proposal for Doctors in each year. These benefits include a living the Bush is only part of a whole range of allowance of $7,000 per academic year, a incentives. These incentives for rural doctors tertiary grant of $3,500 and an annual travel and specialists outside of Brisbane were allowance of $500. So they are quite significantly boosted by the former Deputy significant, they are very popular and, of Premier when he was Health Minister. The course, we rely on them very heavily to get benefits and support for doctors in rural and bonded doctors out into rural areas. I do remote areas of Queensland are, I think, by far welcome any assistance and support given by the widest ranging in Australia for any State. the Commonwealth, but I thought that I agree with the support of the member honourable members should have some of for Callide for multipurpose health service those details of the Queensland scholarship centres for rural communities. I have seen in scheme and encourage young people in rural the past a ridiculous situation where— areas to take them up. Mr Mickel: Remember Monto? The member for Lockyer has supported the legislation, and I thank him for that. He Mrs EDMOND: The member for Logan mentioned the fact that he was keen that it did reminds me of Monto, where the plan was to not discriminate against Australian trained put a nursing home at the opposite end of doctors. I hasten to assure the member that is town to the hospital. That would have led to not to be the scheme. Certainly that was one the ridiculous situation where the ambulance of the things I wanted to make sure did not would have been going backwards and happen, because that was part of the Western forwards between the aged facility and the Australian scheme; it was very much directed hospital. at overseas trained doctors only and did not Multipurpose service centres provide a support Australian doctors. The component of really excellent way of keeping the aged the scheme which involves practitioners people in rural communities and providing working in rural and remote areas for five years health services. It is a pity to see the very topic in return for benefits such as permanent of them misused as a fear campaign in some resident status and an unrestricted Medicare rural areas. People say that they are a provider number will clearly be relevant only to wonderful initiative where they are actually up overseas trained doctors. However, other and running, and it has been a longstanding elements of the scheme will benefit part of Labor Party policy to support them. It is participating Australian graduates by providing a program that I have vigorously pursued with them with the opportunity to undergo their the Commonwealth. training for the fellowship of the Royal As an example of some of the difficulties I Australian College of GPs in the rural or have to face here, I would like to draw the remote location where they are working without attention of the member for Callide—even the need to travel to metropolitan centres for though he is not in the Chamber, if he hears that training. 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5279

This was one of the issues that was raised vacancies compared to 126 just a couple of with me repeatedly when I went around the years ago. I have to say that that is despite State when in Opposition. Rural doctors often the fact that we have added another 30 new felt that they were discriminated against when specialist positions over the last year or two, they came back to urban areas. If they wanted particularly in psychiatric services and to continue their training, the work they had emergency physicians. done in the rural areas was discounted. They I am also working in a collaborative way were basically told that they had to go back with the colleges to address training positions and do another year or two at a major hospital in trying to come up with more novel solutions before they could continue. So they felt they of how we get people training in regional were doubly disadvantaged compared to their centres who, hopefully, will then stay there. peers in terms of access to training. I also With regard to doctors in regional centres, we thank the member for Lockyer for his support relating to the smoking and juveniles issue. need to look at other ways to attract both GPs and specialists. The communities also need to With regard to questions about quality work with local, State and Commonwealth assurance legislation, it is a very difficult area Governments to attract them. Again, I know when walking that fine line of protecting patient that some communities and local governments confidentiality and, at the same time, ensuring are making rent free space available for access to inform professionals so they can surgeries and things like that to make it more monitor standards. It has been very carefully attractive for GPs to go there. considered. I draw the member's attention to the report in today's media—although it has One of the things we have to recognise been ongoing, there have been a number of when there is a shortage and it is difficult to reports in the media over the last few get people is that each town, each city and months—about the Bristol paediatric cardiac each locality is competing for these doctors. surgery disasters and the need for constant They all have to work together to sell their surveillance and maintenance of quality community and the benefits of living in those assurance standards. It is a difficult issue. It is communities. Recently I encouraged Mackay something I will address further in detailed to send out videos of what it was like living in notes later on. I also thank the member for his Mackay, with its advantages and attractions, to support on continuing to restrict smoking by all the physicians they could find to try to juveniles. attract applications. From my understanding, that has worked very well. It is a beautiful place The member for Gladstone also supports to live. Overseas trained doctors constantly the legislation, and I recognise that support. remark about that, yet we were not using that To inform her, Queensland Health is initiative to sell those positions. Again, the supporting training through 150 telemedicine community can do much to make them sites across the State, which is probably the welcome and remove the barriers so the biggest network of telemedicine anywhere in community is not forced to go elsewhere for the world. The member also raised some very medical care. real issues dealing with quality assurance, which I will be addressing later. But I I now turn to a few of the particular understand that one of her concerns was questions that were asked, such as how many about the use of areas of need in city areas. positions will be filled by Australian graduates What the honourable member said she said and how many will be filled by overseas trained rather amusingly about Brisbane and the doctors. Some of these are particulars we are Royal Brisbane, but I understand that the still working through with the Commonwealth. Commonwealth does recognise urban areas The process of identifying the communities after-hours services as areas of need and that will be covered by this scheme is still in allows overseas trained doctors on short-term progress. Until this process is completed, the visas to fill those positions. That is not what our number of available positions will not be legislation aims to do. known. In the case of each position that is identified, it will be filled with an overseas Many members raised the ongoing trained doctor only if there is no local graduate problem of specialists in regional centres as another ongoing concern. I have been having available for the position. regular meetings with the specialist colleges in In terms of the funding that has been an attempt to address these issues. I am provided, while the State is funding the pleased to say that the vacancies of specialists positions, the infrastructure, support for training in regional areas across Queensland is and the ongoing funding, the Commonwealth currently lower than ever before. There are has indicated that it will only provide a one-off now only somewhere between 30 to 40 payment of $300,000. It is disappointing that, 5280 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 despite all the rhetoric, the Commonwealth about this and who is going to be on the has not been prepared thus far to provide project committee for Doctors in the Bush. ongoing funding for what is an ongoing There will be people who are already very problem and an important initiative, particularly much involved, such as the Queensland for rural families and residents. Health General Manager of Health Services, Dr In relation to whether I as Minister have John Youngman, the Queensland Rural the power to determine that any town or centre Medical Support Agency, representatives from will be covered by this scheme, to qualify the Rural Doctors Association of Queensland, under this scheme communities will be the Australian Medical Association of assessed under two tests: the remoteness test Queensland and consumers in rural and and medical work force test. It would be most remote Australia. unlikely that, for example, provincial centres The member for Lockyer asked in would satisfy the remoteness test for which particular about the exemption of section 63, communities will be assessed for inclusion the confidentiality clause, and why it was under the scheme even though the provincial necessary. It should be noted that information centre may satisfy the medical work force test. does not need to include a person's name to That is the current situation in Bundaberg, be potentially identifying, particularly in a small where it is recognised under that work force area such as Lockyer. In practice, quality test that there is a shortage. assurance committee members are more likely The Commonwealth has made it clear to consider aggregated data that has been de- that rural and remote communities are to be identified by a person acting under the given priority under this scheme. Given that direction of the committee. Consequentially, the Commonwealth has the responsibility for an exemption to the duty of confidentiality is granting permanent residency status and an necessary for employees to provide the raw unrestricted Medicare provider number to data—the patient identifying data—to such a doctors who fulfil their obligations under this person if that is necessary. The sort of thing scheme, this scheme can only operate if the we are looking at here is that committees Commonwealth is satisfied that the intent of approved under the Act will need to access the scheme is being observed. patient records to carry out their functions if they are following up such things as wound I was asked about what other strategies healing data, infection rates, negative there are to address doctor shortages in the indicators and all that sort of thing which needs bush. Just to summarise, there is the to be followed through. In some areas it will be scholarship scheme, which I have already difficult to keep it absolutely confidential, but outlined. There is also funding to rural health the people who will be accessing this training units to train registrars in rural information will also be bound by the medicine, the indemnity subsidy for rural confidentiality legislation of their own procedural GPs and relief arrangements for professions. Queensland Health rural doctors. I was also asked about training support for doctors. For The exemption can be applied only to overseas trained doctors, assistance in giving that information to committees that preparing for the fellowship of the Royal have met the strict public interest test for committee approval. Additionally, the provision Australian College of GP's examination will be is qualified by the requirement that the giving provided. I think that is one of the real things of the information is to enable the committee that makes this proposal so different from the to perform its functions. Furthermore, once a one put forward by Western Australia. At this committee gathers the information necessary stage, the focus is on filling vacant positions in to perform its functions, the legislation will rural and remote areas. The details about prevent the committee from making available training support are still being worked out in any information that discloses the identity of a collaboration with the relevant training bodies. person who has received a health service. The I was asked about the number of confidentiality of patient information is specialist training positions being created by effectively preserved through those measures. Queensland Health. The answer I have here is The member for Gladstone also asked that there are 584 specialised registrar training about confidentiality and about whether positions for the year 2000, of which 570 have patients will know that their records may be been filled. These are for most specialties in accessed by quality assurance committees. line with the Australian Medical Work Force This will be dealt with administratively. Patients Advisory Committee's recommendations. admitted to public sector facilities are provided Another question related to who is going with information about the service, including to make recommendations to me as Minister confidentiality policies. Any amendment to this 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5281 information to include the work of approved anything else for any other members. So they quality assurance committees would not be would not be able to use the access to the difficult. It must be stressed, though, that a quality assurance committees' records as a committee is not permitted to disclose the way of getting access to those records. identity of an individual who has received a Clause 4, as read, agreed to. health service unless the individual has consented in writing to that disclosure. Clauses 5 to 11, as read, agreed to. Why is there no legislative provision for Clause 12— the destruction of quality assurance committee Miss SIMPSON (3.34 p.m.): I note the records? Legislative provision is not necessary Minister's explanation that this scheme has because there are already adequate some variation on the Western Australian administrative arrangements and policies in scheme. I feel that I should actually table the place to deal with this. The destruction of announcements made by Western Australia. public records is provided for under the There is so much competition to get doctors Libraries and Archives Act, the whole-of- into rural areas. Western Australia was two Government information standards and also months ahead of Queensland in taking up the departmental policy and corporate clinical Federal Government's offer of measures to cut records. The departmental policy deals with through red tape, such as appropriate accountability for retention and management overseas doctors being eligible for of records, record security, and retention and unconditional registration and permanent disposal of records. If deemed necessary, the residency after working for a period of at least Act has existing legislative provisions for five years. That is one of the reasons why we making regulations about the manner in which had doctors in Richmond and other areas committees are to exercise their functions. actually being interviewed ahead of the Time expired. scheme in Queensland being finalised. I table the press release issued a month and a half Motion agreed to. before the Queensland Minister announced the Queensland scheme. It was issued by the Western Australian Minister for Health, the Committee Honourable John Day. It states— Hon. W. M. EDMOND (Mount Coot-tha— "In a national first, a breakthrough ALP) (Minister for Health) in charge of the Bill. has been achieved on the recruitment of Clauses 1 to 3, as read, agreed to. overseas doctors to the rural areas of Clause 4— Western Australia." It goes on to say— Miss SIMPSON (3.32 p.m.): This clause relates to the quality assurance provisions of "Dr Wooldridge said he was delighted the Act. I note that the review of clinical that Western Australia had shown the practice as a function of the quality assurance tenacity to tackle this difficult issue head committees is removed under this legislation, on. In addition, Dr Wooldridge pledged and I note the reasons as set out in the $500,000 to assist with the recruitment Explanatory Notes. Even though immunity is process. given to committee members, what impact 'Two weeks ago I made a public offer to may this legislation have on the likelihood of all the States and the Northern Territory to quality assurance committees having fix immigration issues if the States information required for legal action? In other addressed the problems they faced with words, is it possible not only for the findings of medical registration,' he said. the quality assurance committees but also the 'Only two State Ministers contacted data that they collect to be gained through me—John Day and Rob Knowles from outside legal proceedings? Victoria. Mrs EDMOND: No, it is not available to 'John Day has been first off the mark, and outside proceedings. It is still covered by all the I congratulate him and his Government other confidentiality provisions. The need for for taking this historic step. this fairly small technical amendment is that nobody has felt prepared to go ahead with 'I have offered him my full support in quality assurance committees because they recruiting suitably qualified trained felt that they were not protected from legal doctors—both from those already in action, because the legislation as it currently Australia and from overseas.'" exists does not give them protection. But it It certainly is a very competitive environment does not widen access to patient records or around Australia, as all the States are taking 5282 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 advantage of the relaxation of the rules Also, an offer of $500,000 was made to surrounding the Medicare provider number Western Australia for funding of this scheme and the immigration status for appropriate and a commitment for recurrent funding— doctors in these rural areas. I certainly something that Queensland has not received. welcome this move. It is greatly needed. I would welcome the support of all members I put on the record my thanks to John opposite in getting the Commonwealth to Anderson, the Deputy Prime Minister, who I address Queensland's concerns and issues know did a lot to work at the Federal level to try and shortages of doctors in exactly the same to cut through the red tape that existed with way as it has in Western Australia, because we regard to immigration and, along with the need something like five times the number of Federal Health Minister, with regard to the rural doctors. That means we will end up with Medicare provider number. It is a very positive $2.5m to fund our scheme on a yearly basis, step. I am sure that this measure will attract a compared to Western Australia's $500,000 for lot more doctors into these areas. its 80 doctors. I ask the Minister about her power to In terms of when this evolved—as soon decide an area of need. I note her earlier as we saw newspaper clippings from Western explanation that there will be a committee Australia about this scheme, we approached composed of the aforementioned groups and the Commonwealth Government and said that that she will be working out an area of need on we were very keen to be involved. However, the basis of a remoteness test and a medical we believed that the scheme being proposed work force test. Is this the same formula that by Western Australia would have only very was previously being used by the Medical limited success, because at that time it was Board or does the Minister anticipate that this limited only to those doctors who already had formula will have greater flexibility? the fellowship of the Royal Australian College I note from the Minister's speech in reply of GPs or equivalent postgraduate qualification to the second-reading debate—and I and who met all the other necessary agree—that some of the work force qualifications. We were determined to open up measurements previously have not been the scheme and make it accessible to accurate in that there are a lot of women Australian graduates, because we believed medical practitioners and there are different that it was inequitable to make it available only factors affecting what is the full-time equivalent to overseas-trained doctors. Of course, our of that work force which are not reflected in best chance of getting good, highly qualified some of those statistics. and highly motivated doctors in the bush is to get Australian graduates out there, supporting In short, is the test that the Minister them in training positions and accessing all of proposes—remoteness and the medical work the support they need. We will be more than force test—the same formula that was happy to get any support that members previously used by the Medical Board or will opposite can provide—whether it be John there be a variation in that regard? Will the Anderson or whoever—to give us access to Minister be applying some other test to take that funding. into account the fact that there are a lot of women GPs who do work part time because of In terms of the criteria that will be used to family commitments? determine which rural or remote communities will be covered under the Doctors for the Bush Mrs EDMOND: I am happy to place on the record the inequitable way in which scheme—as I mentioned earlier, there will be Queensland has been treated by the two criteria used. Firstly, the community will be Commonwealth Government on this issue. assessed against the Accessibility/Remoteness Firstly, there was no general offer to all the Index of Australia published by the other States. There may have been a private Commonwealth Department of Health and offer to Western Australia, the Northern Aged Care. This is the formula that is already Territory and Victoria; I am not sure. We used in helping determine remoteness for a certainly were not made aware of that, even range of facilities. This index indicates, for though we had been lobbying for some moves example, whether a particular community is for some time. As I said, Queensland needs rated as remote or very remote. Secondly, the about 400 overseas-trained doctors at any one community will be assessed on medical work time, compared to 80 in Western Australia. I force grounds, that is, the extent to which think the number in Victoria could be counted there is a shortage of doctors in the on one hand, and I do not know the number in community. So both of those things need to the Northern Territory. But I am prepared to be taken into consideration. place on the record the inequitable way in I think we also have to be a little sensitive which we were treated. to the work force issues involved here. All of 24 Nov 1999 Health Legislation Amendment Bill 5283 the peak bodies that have come together to in those terms and are scared off by it, even support us in this project have expressed though many of them do very well and pass. concerns that we do not create a dumping The fact that, if they are assessed as ground of masses of doctors coming in, which being suitable, they will be able to access then overturns work force planning and directly the fellowship of the royal college of opportunities for Queensland graduates in the GPs' postgraduate qualification is a significant future and other Australian doctors. If we make inducement. They will then have to meet the it too easy and accessible for people to go into Federal requirement of staying there 10 years, provincial cities such as Bundaberg, we are rather than what we are providing as a short never, ever going to be able to get people to cut in rural and remote areas. So we still think go into really difficult and remote areas. That there will be a benefit. A number of the people must be recognised. who have written to me find that very I understand the difficulties of Bundaberg, attractive, and they are certainly considering where one of my dear old friends, who is a GP doing the postgraduate qualification rather at 90, is still practising. But a number of older than going through the AMC. GPs are retiring. The issue comes back to the Miss SIMPSON: I want to ask the fact that the Commonwealth deliberately Minister about the additional funding that the restricts the number of training places around Federal Government has provided to be Australia, including Queensland. And while we delivered through the college of GPs in regard have that deliberate restriction, it is going to be to postgraduate training of rural doctors. I difficult to get people into even the provincial understand that there is a pilot program with areas. about $1m attached to it to provide oversight Mr SLACK: I raised the issue of of training and delivery to doctors who are in Bundaberg during the general debate on this rural areas, and that Queensland will share particular aspect of the Bill. The Minister has that with other areas. Perhaps the Minister acknowledged the problems that exist, and could provide the Committee with a briefing as she has ruled out the application of this to the understanding of Queensland Health. I scheme to provincial cities such as Bundaberg. know that these are private GPs. It may be But as she is aware, the Bundaberg division of separate from the Minister's scheme, but it is general practitioners has made postgraduate training, with Federal funding, to representations to members of Parliament try to help those rural GPs come within the from that area and to the city council, bringing vocational training provisions. to their attention the acuteness of the Mrs EDMOND: I have just been told that shortage that is to occur in Bundaberg relevant the $1m is being cut to $500,000, which has to the numbers. I am not being petty in this to come out of the RACGP funding program. I and picking on the Minister. I accept that the hope that the $300,000 that we are accessing Commonwealth has a role to play in this. The is not being double counted. We need that Minister indicated that this was a proposal of $300,000 for establishment costs and to hers to address the problems in the bush. Are provide training support and all the rest of it in there any proposals to address the general those areas. Quite a significant amount of problem that has been recognised by herself funding goes from the Commonwealth into the and the Commonwealth? For instance, in Brisbane there is a ratio of one to 700. I am divisions of GPs, for instance, for a whole told that, in Bundaberg, the ratio will be around range of programs. It does not come through one to 1,900 or 2,000. the State, nor do we have any control over it. Mrs EDMOND: While this proposal is not Miss SIMPSON: So is that $300,000 geared towards Bundaberg, we do think it will which is coming through the RACGP to be have a flow-on benefit. We are proposing that utilised for the Doctors for the Bush program, if people are assessed by the different peak or is that separate? Perhaps the Minister could bodies as having suitable qualifications, so outline the amount of money that the State that we maintain quality assurance, they will be has actually tagged for the implementation of able to go through the fellowship of the college this scheme, with particular regard to the of GPs' examination rather than the Australian support required for the postgraduate training Medical Council's examination. The difference component. is very attractive to people who are practising Mrs EDMOND: As I said before, the as GPs. One is an exam. The AMC exam is $500,000 is a separate amount of funding that geared to someone who is just finishing is going through the College of General university. It is a theoretical type of exam. Practitioners directly. The $300,00 is coming to People who have been practising for 10 years the State. I hope it has not been double- or so find it very difficult to go back to thinking counted. That is a commitment by the 5284 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 24 Nov 1999

Commonwealth as one-off funding towards our As an example, clause 5 of this putting this program in place. The funding that amendment is queried in so far as it questions this Government will be providing will be whether this Bill allows the delegation of expended in the support area. I can assure legislative power only in appropriate cases and the honourable member that it is much more to appropriate persons, as referred to in than $300,000. section 4(4)(A) of the Legislative Standards Act Clause 12, as read, agreed to. 1992. Clause 5 of the proposed Bill inserts into the Associations Incorporation Act 1981 a new Clauses 13 to 37, as read, agreed to. section 43 dealing with unsuitable names for Bill reported, without amendment. associations. These are presently termed "undesirable names". Under the proposed section, the determination of what are Third Reading unsuitable names will be made entirely by Bill, on motion of Mrs Edmond, by leave, means of regulations. As a name which an read a third time. association can have may be a matter of some significance, the Scrutiny of Legislation Committee was concerned that the proposed EQUITY AND FAIR TRADING section does not have any criteria which are to (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) BILL be applied in making the relevant regulations. Second Reading The current section 43, whilst also Resumed from 14 April (see p. 1043). containing a residual power to declare unsuitable names by regulation, stipulates a Mr DAVIDSON (Noosa—LP) (3.52 p.m.): number of grounds upon which names will in The Minister for Equity and Fair Trading, the fact be unsuitable. Thus the Scrutiny of Honourable Judy Spence, introduced into this Legislation Committee has—not House the Equity and Fair Trading unreasonably—recommended that the (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. The Bill Minister considers amending proposed section proposes relatively minor technical 43 to stipulate in that section some of the amendments to a number of statutes grounds upon which names shall be administered by the Department of Equity and unsuitable. As the ancient saying goes, "One Fair Trading. man's poison is another man's poison." Thus, In the Explanatory Notes the Minister association members should have some rights indicates that her department is responsible for in the matter of naming, and particularly so the administration of 78 statutes and, as a when the Minister advises us that a computer result, from time to time there is a necessity for system will be considering what is a suitable or a large number of minor or technical unsuitable name. amendments to be regularly made to various We have all had alarming experiences of legislative provisions to ensure that the what computers, left to their own devices, can statutes continue to operate in the manner come up with—none more so than Minister intended. It is the intention of this particular Bill Spence whose department's brand new to ensure that all perceived technical or minor computer, BACHCO, will, when finally brought amendments are to be effected by means of on stream, carry the loads to which much of this one statute. This intent, by itself, is a this Act pertains. This is also the computer that logical and practical means of addressing is celebrated for its inaction and time delay in these needs, but one must be careful that one registering business names—a matter that I does not throw the baby out with the raised during the Estimates. bathwater. At that hearing, I pointed out to the A number of the Bill's provisions were Minister that a member of my staff had sent contained in the Justice and Other Legislation off the appropriate forms on 22 September (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1998 which was 1999 to register a business. As at the date of introduced into the Parliament on 5 March the hearings—14 October—no further 1998, but which lapsed due to the subsequent correspondence or contact had been received election. The Scrutiny of Legislation from the Minister's department. We had Committee recommended certain changes to undertaken this exercise because I had that Bill, which obviously have been noted by received complaints from business operators the Minister. However, the same committee that the delays in receiving business name indicated with regard to this Bill that there are a registrations was causing problems. For number of issues which need to be example, it is impossible for a new business to addressed—in particular, certain amendments open a bank account until the business name to the Associations Incorporation Act 1981. is registered and the owner has the 24 Nov 1999 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 5285 appropriate documentation to present to the respectively. Clauses 3, 4 and 6 of Schedule 1 bank. respectively amend section 16(3)(C), At the Estimates committee hearings, the 19(1)(C)(II) and 68(3)(b) of the Cooperatives Minister had her staff check on the delay and, Act 1997. as Hansard reports, at the end of the session In each case, the Act currently specifies a the Minister was able to inform us that minimum number of people required for registration had taken place on 11 October. various purposes. The Bill adds to each She proceeded to quote the appropriate stipulation the following words— number. This is all very efficient and proof positive that BACHCO was up and running and "... or if a lesser number than five is that business had no need to worry because prescribed under a regulation (not less all was well. than) the prescribed number." The appropriate documents eventually The amended provisions respectively concern turned up in my staffer's post office box on 21 the minimum number of persons required to October, exactly 29 days after he sent off his be in attendance at a cooperative formation cheque to the Department of Equity and Fair meeting, the minimum number of members Trading. Sure enough, the documents required to sign a cooperative's registration contained all the dates and numbers as application and the minimum number of described by the Minister at the Estimates members required in order for the cooperative hearing, but I still raise the question: is it good to commence trading. enough for business to have to wait 29 days It appears that these clauses are all Henry before it can apply for a bank account so that VIII clauses within the adopted definition, the business can commence to operate? because in all cases a provision of the Act I do not want to give the impression that I declaring a specific number to be required can lay the blame for this delay, and seemingly be displaced by a regulation. Since none of inefficient operation, at the Minister's door. the clauses falls within any of the four She certainly cannot personally post out every situations in which the committee regards letter from her department. I am simply trying Henry VIII clauses as being sometimes to highlight the fact that, with the very best of justifiable, all clauses are provisions that the intentions, computers and the staff who input committee would classify as generally into them are not the be-all and end-all of the objectionable. The committee also noted that problems that beset us all each day. the subject matter of these clauses, although As this particular computer will have the not insignificant, is also not of the first order of job of keeping track of much of the contents of importance. The committee also noted that this legislation, it is worth while noting that if we the regulation making power is relatively are going to be left with BACHCO as the confined in that it allows the setting of adjudicator of what is and what is not a numbers 1 to 4. As a result, the committee suitable name, it is possible that Australia Post recommends that clauses 3, 4, and 6 of may have a decided increase in profitability Schedule 1 to the Bill be removed. These are this year because of the possible protracted major concerns in relation to the Bill now correspondence in which Minister Spence before the House. No doubt the Minister has would find herself involved as BACHCO keeps noted the recommendations. It would appear on turning out quite legitimate names. I wish that she has acted accordingly. We will be alert the Minister well in her sorties with BACHCO to the need for the Bill to be changed and his/its definition of an unsuitable name. appropriately. A number of amendments to the Under the amendment to the Hire- Cooperatives Act 1997 have also led to some purchase Act 1959, clause 64 amends section concern. The Scrutiny of Legislation 2 (Interpretation) by excluding from the Committee has, in relation to this section of definition of "hire-purchase agreement" a the Bill, asked the question: does the Bill transaction that would otherwise be hire- authorise the amendment of an Act only by purchase agreement if the total market value another Act—by a Henry VIII clause? This of the goods exceeds $40m at the time of the clause has nothing to do with many of Henry's transaction. I must admit that I personally have well-known foibles but, in fact, is concerned a problem getting my mind around a hire- with relevance and sufficient regard being purchase contract that has a bill for $40m given to the institution of Parliament under the tacked onto the bottom of the deal. No doubt Legislative Standards Act 1992. The question such events have occurred. The new is asked in regard to proposed clause 19 and treatment of such transactions will make it Schedule 1 and clauses 3, 4 and 6 much easier for all parties to understand. 5286 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 24 Nov 1999

While pursuing the other facets of this who may be equally or more qualified but multi-sectional legislation, I was amused to choose to belong to another professional note that under clause 59 of the amendments, organisation. Quite simply, the NIA seeks— which amends section 94 (Preservation of to have removed from Queensland secrecy) of the Fair Trading Act, the regulation inconsistencies and anomalies commissioner may now communicate regarding qualification for the information to Ministers or officials of another appointment of auditors based solely on country in addition to the Commonwealth and the membership of certain professional other States of Australia. One can just imagine organisations; Mr Bracks in Victoria waiting to hear secrets from Ms O'Donnell or the acting Commissioner to have the definition of "accountant, for Consumer Affairs, Ms Ulla Zella, or the FOI auditor, approved auditor, public office's John Lamont, whose tenure of position accountant" amended to include must be of some concern to him as one week appropriately qualified members and his position is revoked and then the next fellows of the NIA and for them to be able month he is back in business. As Mr Bracks will to undertake audit functions in a wide need all the help he can get, I am sure a few range of Queensland legislation; and secrets from the Department of Fair Trading to implement recommendations approved will be of immense help to him. by MINCO, of which Queensland is a Ms Spence interjected. member, reforms are required to the definition of "auditors" in State legislation. Mr DAVIDSON: A few months ago he was in and out three times. The objectives of the NIA submission are to emphasise that Queensland legislation Ms Spence: That had nothing to do with should— us. promote competitive practices in the Mr DAVIDSON: We have been waiting private sector and bring Queensland into since April to debate this Bill. The contents of line with National Competition Policy this speech are not up to date. It has taken principles; the Minister seven months to get this debate into the Chamber. A number of people who eliminate unnecessary regulation of the anticipated this legislation would be passed accounting profession; rationalise the some time ago contacted us to ensure that we process for the approval of suitably are supporting its passage through the House, qualified persons to conduct statutory because they have an urgent need for this audits; and legislation to be passed. provide a regulatory regime that promotes Although this Bill has passage through efficiency and high standards of delivery. the House, I will raise a matter for In respect of the anomalies, we have the consideration within the confines of it. I am ludicrous situation in which Treasury has aware that this matter has been presented to already amended legislation to include Minister Spence as well as the Premier, the members of the NIA within the definition of Attorney-General and Minister for Justice and "accountant". That suggests that consistency Minister for the Arts, and the Minister for State across the whole of Government is a most Development and Minister for Trade. The desirable outcome. The current position in matter to which I refer is a submission from the respect of the NIA members is probably National Institute of Accountants asking on contrary to the Trade Practices Act. In its 1992 behalf of that organisation for the legislative study titled Study into the Accountancy recognition of the National Institute of Profession, the commission concluded that in Accountants. That submission in its a market as diverse and essentially presentation to the Attorney-General deregulated as that of accounting services, the expanded the request for legislative assumption that only members of major recognition to "the legislative recognition of bodies—ICAA and ASCPA—are adequately auditing qualifications for members of the qualified is open to question. National Institute of Accountants— An example of the ludicrous nature of the Queensland". current position and an example of the The very logical thrust of that submission inefficiencies of the current process can be to those Ministers is that it should not be the illustrated when a member has a client that is function of Government to provide commercial an incorporated association holding a gaming advantage to certain individuals simply machine licence. The activities of the client are because they belong to a particular regulated by two separate departments. The professional organisation over other individuals Department of Fair Trading regulates the 24 Nov 1999 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 5287 organisational aspects of the client and the (2) has satisfactorily completed an Department of Treasury regulates the club's auditing component of a course gaming activities. That circumstance requires of study of accountancy at a that a member of the NIA has to obtain special tertiary level conducted by an approval from the Department of Fair Trading institution prescribed under the for the purpose of auditing the club's affairs, Corporations Law, section yet because Treasury has initiated 1280(2); or amendment of the Gaming Machine Act 1991 (3) a person approved by the chief by Parliament passing the Gaming Machine executive as having the and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 1998, necessary expertise or the same members will be able to conduct qualification to be an accountant audits on the club's gaming activities without for this section." need for any special sanction from the Minister or the department. It would seem most appropriate while commenting on this Bill before the House to It is my contention that immediate recommend to the Ministers involved in the consideration should be given by the relevant relevant Acts mentioned earlier to take the Ministers to amend the following legislative necessary steps to make those amendments enactments, some of which I am aware are at the earliest possible minute. It may even be being considered. Such legislation relevant to possible for the Minister for Fair Trading to the Department of Fair Trading includes the include that amendment in the Bill before us Associations Incorporation Act 1981, section before it proceeds any further in this process. If 58(1)(b); Auctioneers and Agents Act 1971, so, we on this side of the House would section 108(4); Charitable Funds Act 1958, endorse such action. In the event that the section 24(2)(c), Collections Act 1966, section Minister intends to bring this matter to 31(1); the Retail Shop Leases Act 1994, Part attention at another time, I commend this 3, Interpretation, definition "approved auditor", action to her. section 37(5); and the Security Providers Act 1993, section 3, definition "accountant". Such At the beginning of this speech I indicated legislation relevant to the Department of that the Department of Fair Trading is Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Policy and responsible for the administration of 78 Development includes the Aboriginal Land statutes, hence this Bill. The many changes Regulation 1991, Part 3 Land Trusts, Division proposed to the House provide for those 4, section 35C(1). Such legislation relevant to statutes to be operated in the manner the Department of Justice and Attorney- necessary, that is, competently and General includes the Trust Accounts Act, professionally. Apart from producing Bills and section 15(1)(d), the Trusts Act 1973, section other changes to legislation, to ensure the 5(1), definition "public accountant". efficient and proficient functioning of the Minister's department, a department Treasury has adopted the NIA submission responsible for legislation enacted for the that the following definition of accountant be proper conduct of just about every business in embodied into all appropriate legislation— this State, there is the need for well trained, " 'Accountant' means well managed and, most importantly, happy staff. (A) a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia With regret I question whether that last who holds a current certificate of but major need is present in this Minister's public practice issued by the institute; Department of Fair Trading. The House is well or aware of the rusty ute affair wherein, despite ministerial bleating about the separations of (B) a member of the Australian Society powers, we are all aware that Minister Spence of Certified Practising Accountants was involved in this sordid little Labor mates' who holds a current Public Practice affair right up to her mobile phone ears. Certificate issued by the society; or Mr Nuttall: That was a cheap shot. (C) a person registered as an auditor Mr DAVIDSON: The member should just under the Corporations Law; or wait and listen. (D) a member of the National Institute of Members will recall that Inspector David Accountants who— Cuddihy, Deputy Registrar Goddard and the (1) holds a current Public Practice ex-Commissioner of Consumer Affairs, Neil Certificate issued by the institute; Lawson, were so against Labor lawyer and and one time member of the Auctioneers and 5288 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 24 Nov 1999

Agents Committee, Ms Raelene Kelly's dad, raise other issues and matters related to the Bill, getting recompense from the Auctioneers Department of Fair Trading. and Agents Fidelity Fund for an amount of Ms Spence: Refer the matter to the CJC. $6,700 that the then Commissioner Lawson even took out a Supreme Court writ in an Mr DAVIDSON: That will happen. It has endeavour to stop this farcical payment. Well been seven months since the Minister Mr Lawson may have, when one of his many introduced this Bill. The Opposition has offered reasons for doing so was that an affidavit bipartisan support for the legislation, given the signed by Raelene Kelly's ex-husband, one consultation that we have had with a number Stephen Matthew Witt, a person not qualified of people who have contacted us regarding to provide a roadworthy certificate or make the urgency of having it passed. I have also statements pertaining thereto, declared the taken this opportunity to raise some other vehicle rusty throughout and thus useless. No matters that relate to issues that have been wonder the committee recommended a raised with me by people who have had a lack payout with such lofty advice at their of correspondence with the Minister. command. No doubt such advice was the As I said earlier, the Opposition is happy subject of the 13-minute call to Ms Kelly by this to support the Bill, which makes amendments Minister on the ministerial car phone on 4 to 78 statutes. Some of those amendments September—a contact that the Minister claims are minor and some are technical in nature. I in this House never to have made. know that the Catholic Church and the people After much running around by involved with cooperatives have contacted the departmental staff and investigators about the Minister and expressed their wish that the Bill is passed urgently. I believe that the Minister is merits of the Kelly gang's claim against the fund and despite their best expert advice to going to move a number of amendments to the contrary—advice that now finds Mr Lawson this Bill, and the Opposition is happy to banished from his job as Consumer Affairs support those amendments. Obviously, I Commissioner—the claim was approved by the have a concern about a person who has been Auctioneers and Agents Committee and both investigated by the Department of Fair of the Kellys made a nice little earn out of the Trading, for which the Minister is responsible. I rusty ute affair. It again just proves the point believe that this person has been that it is not what you know but who you know misrepresented and not given fair access to that makes the difference. If members have the Minister on the issue that I wished to raise any doubt about the correctness of that today. However, given that Mr Deputy Speaker adage, they should just ask Mr Lawson for his has directed that those issues fall outside the opinion about this. boundary of this debate, I will choose to raise those issues in another forum. I say to the Unfortunately, someone has to pay the Minister that we are happy to support the piper. Even the most senior officer in the passage of this Bill. Department of Fair Trading had more than his Ms NELSON-CARR (Mundingburra—ALP) fair share of doubt about the legitimacy of this (4.15 p.m.): I rise to support the Fair Trading affair and so the original car seller in this (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1999. This Bill Socialist Left affair, one Frank Matthew makes a range of amendments to improve the Benussi of Frank's Wholesale Cars, was the efficiency and workability of legislation in the mug singled out as the bunny. On 27 May Fair Trading portfolio. The amendments have 1999, Mr Benussi was— been developed in close consultation with the Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr D'Arcy): relevant community organisations and with the Order! I have just been advised by the Clerk relevant industry groups. that at the moment the member is way off the I would like to refer to a number of points Bill. The member is not referring directly to this that concern just three of the areas where the Bill; he is referring to a case that does not amendments proposed in the Bill will improve relate at all to this Bill. the legislative environment. I refer to the Mr DAVIDSON: Mr Deputy Speaker, I Cooperatives Act 1997. As a result of appreciate that. reasonable requests by the Co-operative Federation of Queensland, which is the peak Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I ask the body for the industry, the Bill makes several member to return to the Bill. amendments to the Cooperatives Act 1997. Mr DAVIDSON: Obviously, the Equity and The Act will be amended to ensure that Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, cooperatives can have independent directors introduced into this House by the Minister for but will also ensure that the control of Fair Trading, gives members an opportunity to cooperatives stays with member directors. At 24 Nov 1999 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 5289 present, there must be a ratio of three after expiry, is unable to work until a new member directors to one independent director. licence is issued. Obviously, this creates That means that if a cooperative wishes to extreme hardship. Therefore, the Bill provides have two independent directors, it must have a that a licence holder who lodges an application board of eight, which is unworkable. for a renewal before expiry is deemed to be A further amendment will relieve licensed until the chief executive either cooperatives in appropriate circumstances approves or rejects the application for renewal. from the requirement to have a registered This will be consistent with the approach taken company auditor. This will be convenient and in comparable circumstances in other pieces of will obviously have major cost savings. A legislation administered by the Office of Fair further amendment will provide for a simplified Trading, that is, the Second-hand Dealers and disclosure statement, that is a prospectus, for Collectors Act 1984, the Hawkers Act 1984, covering shares and debentures. A further and the Auctioneers and Agents Act 1971. I amendment will provide that, where applicable, commend the Bill to the House. cooperatives can get exemptions from the Mr SANTORO (Clayfield—LP) (4.19 p.m.): accounting requirements of the Corporations Departmental miscellaneous statute Bills are Law. The Bill also contains numerous minor or rarely controversial and perform the useful technical amendments to cure anomalies that function of tidying up various statutes that have been detected since the legislation was collectively are all administered by either the passed in 1997 and as a result of recent one department or the same Minister. This Bill amendments to the Corporations Law. The Act is no exception to the rule and, as the Minister adopts a number of Corporations Law pointed out, is modelled largely on legislation provisions. introduced into the House in 1998 by my The Bill contains amendments to the colleague the member for Indooroopilly, who Land Sales Act 1984, which were requested was then Attorney-General and Minister for by the Urban Development Institute of Justice. Nevertheless, there are a few Australia through its solicitors and which help consumer affairs related matters that I would clarify the intent of the legislation. Presently, like to raise. section 10A(1) of the Act requires that the Fortunately, legislation of this type gives vendor give to the purchaser within 18 months the opportunity to members of Parliament to of the date of the contract the registrable raise matters that generally impact on the instrument of transfer, a copy of the registered portfolio of the Minister. It goes without saying survey plan, a copy of the "as constructed that the Office of Fair Trading is at the plan", and a statement by a licensed surveyor. crossroads. It is often claimed by politicians The provision unintentionally catches lots sold that this or that department is in crisis or in off a sealed plan of subdivision. Accordingly, disarray, and sometimes those claims are this Bill amends this section so that the exaggerated. No-one who has witnessed the requirement to provide the documents applies shambles that is this Minister's portfolio would only where the vendor has not already given quibble with the statement that the Office of the purchaser a copy of the plan of survey for Fair Trading is in deep trouble. It is in deep the proposed allotment sealed by the local trouble because the leadership at the very top government. of this department—and by that I include the At present, it is possible for a purchaser to Minister and her Director-General, Marg take possession of a proposed allotment and O'Donnell—is plainly not up to the task. It is in to undertake work for future development prior a shambles because of the blatant and to completion. This work could amount to a hamfisted way that this Minister has attempted significant variation as defined in the Act, to run this department and the manner in thereby allowing the purchaser to terminate which Neil Lawson, the previous Commissioner the contract. This was never the intention of for Consumer Affairs, has been sidelined for the legislation and is unfair to the vendor. The just doing his job. I am no apologist for Neil Bill also amends the Act to provide that the Lawson, who has his— purchaser may not terminate if the purchaser Ms Spence interjected. is given possession of a proposed allotment and the purchaser has caused a significant Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr D'Arcy): variation. Order! We have just been through this and it is At the moment, the Security Providers Act obviously a rehash of what has been done 1993 provides that a licensee who lodges an before. The fact is that a Bill is before the application for renewal before expiry of the House. There are guidelines. licence, but the renewal is not processed until Government members interjected. 5290 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 24 Nov 1999

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! In second- Mr SANTORO: The member for reading debates, it is traditional that we allow a Indooroopilly, who the Minister has just very wide-ranging debate. For that reason, I let criticised, achieved that in less than two years the member for Noosa go for much longer as a Minister despite the fact that his three than I should have, thinking that he would Labor predecessors, Glen Milliner, Tom Burns return to the Bill. I ask the member for Clayfield and Ken Davies, could not even get to a draft to return to the Bill. legislative proposal stage in six years. It is a Mr SANTORO: Mr Deputy Speaker, out of telling commentary on this Minister and this respect for the Chair, I shall. I was Government that, despite the fact that he left commenting— this Government with a very good legislative blueprint, still nothing concrete has been Ms Spence: I bet you know nothing achieved. about this Bill. Where is the reform of the motor dealer, Mr SANTORO: The Minister is about to auctioneer, real estate and debt collection learn a bit herself. industries under this can't do Government? I Ms Spence: I hope you can talk about it. give this Government 10 out of 10 for smoke and mirrors media activity, but 1 out of 10 for Mr SANTORO: The Minister can bet her actual performance. In the case of fair trading, bottom dollar— if I was one of those consumer advocates who Ms Spence interjected. rate Ministers year by year, I would give the current Minister about 2 out of 10 and that Mr SANTORO: I will now talk for 18 would be generous. minutes on her Bill. It is a stark reminder of just how little regard this Government has for As I said earlier, we are seeing the Queensland consumers that the Bill has been wholesale dismantling of the professionalism allowed to languish on the Notice Paper since of the Office of Fair Trading. The Minister and April. For more than seven months this the Government are prepared to put the Government has given a raft of other Bills interests of ALP hacks who have ripped almost greater legislative priority. While the Bill may half a million dollars— not be controversial, I would have thought that Mr SCHWARTEN: I rise to a point of Queensland consumers deserved to have a order. We were promised by the honourable little more priority than they apparently receive member on his feet that we would hear under this administration. something of relevance to the debate before the House. I have yet to hear that. He has not This is not the only example of the low spoken about the Bill once. Mr Deputy priority accorded to fair trading matters. It took Speaker, I ask for your ruling on relevance. almost twelve months before this Parliament was presented with any significant legislative Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! There is reform activity from the Minister. Even then, no point of order. the Retirement Villages Bill has been on the Mr SANTORO: I will deal with this matter building blocks now since 1992 when the before I finish. I inform the Minister of one member for Chatsworth chaired a review after thing about how Labor treats Queensland he had been relegated to the backbench. The consumers and, for the benefit of the Minister's role in this exercise is, without being honourable member for Rockhampton and the too unkind, at the margins. Minister, I note that we are talking about how During six years of Labor Government this Bill impacts on consumers. If the Minister under Wayne Goss, despite the Overett review asks officers of her department who have in 1991 and numerous half-hearted and been around for a few years, they will confirm under-resourced investigations, not one what I am about to say. serious attempt was made to overhaul the Mr Nuttall: Stick to your own portfolio. Auctioneers and Agents Act, for example. You keep sticking your nose into everybody Again, it fell to my colleague the member for else's business. Indooroopilly to introduce into this House the Mr SANTORO: The honourable member most comprehensive reforms in this critical who is interjecting, and who is not on the area for more than two decades. Once again, speaking list, should listen to this because he it was as a result of Labor's blocking tactics has not been around for as long as I have: in and myopic negativity that Queenslanders 1993 when Glen Milliner was the Minister, he were deprived of genuine law reform in this went to the Cabinet Budget Review Committee critical area. with a series of innovative proposals for areas Ms Spence interjected. that are dealt with by this Bill. One of those 24 Nov 1999 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 5291 proposals was to install computer-generated registered. As I have written previously to the information kiosks, which would have given Minister, the issue is not one of preventing relevant consumer and community information competition but of ensuring that misleading to members of the public throughout the names are not registered, thereby creating a State. Under Wayne Goss, the CBRC looked playing field that is not level. I am continuing to at this proposal, together with all of the other deal with this matter. I bring this issue to the consumer affairs proposals that he brought attention of the Minister and her advisers forward, and threw the lot out. However, before again as an example of the type of great harm Glen was giving his marching orders by Wayne that is being done when a too liberal approach and Keith De Lacy, Wayne offered him some is taken to the registration of new firm names. sage advice. He indicated that he would have In this case, a family that has paid to the been prepared to authorise money for the Government its fees for registering a firm printing of a few hundred thousand bumper name has been put in an unfair situation. It is stickers entitled "caveat emptor". That is the my very strong belief that this situation should record of consumer affairs under Labor in never have arisen in the first place. Queensland. It was pathetic. I will give this The amendment exempting from the Hire- Minister full due: she is maintaining a solid purchase Act 1959 transactions of more than Labor record in this area. $40m is also commendable. It is a little ironic In fairness—and honourable members that a statute that had its origins in the first should listen to this, because sometimes I do moves towards consumer credit legislation is give credit to Labor people—I will say that one now used largely as an instrument of finance of Queensland's best Consumer Affairs by small business. In the past there have been Ministers was Glen Milliner who, despite some recommendations to repeal this statute ongoing hostility from the then Premier and but, from my own knowledge and on advice, I the Treasurer, did everything that he could to know that there are a number of provisions in advance the interests of consumers. As in the Act that provide extra protections to small most things he was involved in, Glen Milliner business operators. Repealing this law would, was a decent and genuine person who was at this juncture anyway, be a retrograde step. sadly let down by the Goss administration. On the other hand, providing consumer Mr Musgrove: He would be mortified if he protection to people who obtain loans in heard you say this. excess of $40m is just plain silly, as they are in a position to protect themselves. There would Mr SANTORO: I will send him a copy of be no inequality of bargaining power. this speech and I bet that he will not be mortified. He will appreciate the inherent While raising no concerns, the fairness of yours truly. amendments to the Land Sales Act nevertheless give me the opportunity to As I mentioned, the contents of this Bill highlight my ongoing interest in pre-registration are of a machinery nature. The proposal to sales of flat land. As the Minister's advisers amend the Business Names Act to provide would know, for many years the land protection for the registrar when he or she acts development lobby had been seeking a honestly and without negligence is fair liberalisation of the law to allow for the sale of enough, although of late I have been lots prior to the sealing of the subdivisional concerned about the way in which the office is plan of survey by the relevant local authority. dealing with applications for new firm names. Until the amendments made to the Act by the Traditionally, the office has adopted the previous coalition Government, this was not approach of not registering a new name that is possible unless the subdivision in question similar to an existing firm name. This is involved five lots or less. consistent with the philosophy underlying the Act, which is to prevent confusion in the The amendments were supported by both marketplace and the risk of consumer side of politics, and I know that the member for detriment. Chatsworth had long been a proponent for liberalising the law. However, I have to say that In one instance a florist in my electorate, the risk of consumer detriment is always who has been trading for more than 40 years, greatest when land is being sold very early in found that a new firm intended to use a similar the land development cycle. I would be name. In both cases, the florists used the interested in knowing how the Act is operating name of the suburb in which they traded. I since the amendments were made, and have attempted to help my constituent, who whether any problems have arisen. Although I has traded very successfully and satisfactorily strongly supported making this Act more as the Clayfield Floral Service for 40 years, in workable and freeing up the process so that preventing a misleading new name from being land could be marketed earlier and with lower 5292 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 24 Nov 1999 costs for consumers, I think it is critically information on how to avoid scams, useful important to keep this matter under close information on how not to misuse credit cards scrutiny. If problems start to arise it will be and details of what is involved in a scam. essential to move very quickly to overcome Another section headed "Consumer them. Crusader" deals with mobile phone costs, The machinery amendments to the investment card ratings, car leasing, car Roman Catholic Church (Incorporation of finance brokers, loyalty and reward programs Church Entities) Act further finetune this and provides specific information on consumer statute and make it more relevant to the rights in all the States, including Queensland. needs of the church. When the Religious, The good thing about this site is that it is up to Educational and Charitable Institutions Act was date, very professionally set out, has relevant repealed prospectively by the Associations Australian information and gives follow-up Incorporation Act in 1981, not enough thought information on whom to contact. was given to the needs of religious bodies in For example, the article on avoiding particular. The peculiar nature of some church scams advises readers to make sure that any bodies, which are episcopal rather than investment scheme has a prospectus democratic in structure, results in many of the registered with the Australian Securities and provisions of the Associations Incorporation Investment Commission. It suggests that Act not being applicable. Although the Roman consumers look to see whether a company Catholic Church now has its own statute which has overdue returns with the ASIC and then is tailor-made for its needs, other churches gives fax and telephone numbers for Dun and may require similar legislative assistance in the Bradstreet, Stockphone and the relevant future, including, for example, the Anglican Commonwealth and State agencies. I do not Church and various Orthodox denominations. know whether the Minister is aware of this site, Provided that the legislation is focused on long but it is quite well known and it is an established churches with internal indispensable tool which should be looked at, accountability mechanisms, I would encourage if it has not been already. the Minister and her department to facilitate any reasonable requests. In saying this, I Fraud over the Internet is a growing recognise the particular problems that arise problem that, with the development of e- with the interface with the Corporations Law commerce, will soon take more and more time and the Federal Government. of consumer affairs agencies. Just as cyberstalking is becoming a major criminal Before turning to the amendments made problem, in America cyberfraud is already the to the Fair Trading Act, I wish to deal with the cause of millions of dollars of consumer growing use of computers and the related detriment each month. Without giving it a plug, issue of computer or Internet fraud, and the I suggest that anyone interested should look critical need for the Office of Fair Trading to at the Yahoo Internet site. Under the heading take a more proactive stance. First, it is clear "Computers and the Internet", there is a that one means of Government departments section headed "Internet/business". By clicking getting their message across quickly, cheaply on these headings, we find hyperlinked a and effectively is via Internet sites. series of sites that have copious information I have perused the Office of Fair Trading's site on Internet fraud and the various agencies on the Queensland Government home page, that are dealing with it. Once again, I strongly and I compliment those who set it up. Unlike urge the Minister and her department to some other State Government web sites, it is investigate means of highlighting to well set up and fairly user friendly. consumers who do not know all that much Nevertheless, much more can be done. about how to find information just what sites For example, I suggest to the Minister are available. that it would be a good idea, provided it is I conclude my contribution by noting that legally feasible, to hyperlink other sites of it is proposed to amend the Fair Trading Act by particular use to Queensland consumers. I changing the name of the Commissioner for specifically draw to the Minister's attention the Consumer Affairs to the Commissioner for Fair "My Money" site. It has a number of consumer Trading. Although the title Office of Fair related articles that are particularly good. For Trading is appropriate, I think that changing example, under the "Scam Watch" section the commissioner's title is unnecessary and will there is specific information on insurance result in confusion. From the time of Jan Taylor scams, business invoicing scams, pyramid onwards, most ordinary people know what the schemes and cheque, job and jewellery Commissioner for Consumer Affairs is scams. Even more pertinently, it has responsible for, and to tamper with that is not 24 Nov 1999 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 5293 wise. When we have brand name recognition, Lawson was undertaking a 12-month project so to speak, especially in this area, which is on consumer fraud. dependent on positive interaction with citizens, Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The changing the title is not only unnecessary but member would realise that he is stretching my also could result in confusion. Irrespective of patience. what I say, this change will obviously proceed, but I strongly suggest to the Minister that this Mr SANTORO: With respect to your matter be looked at and the public be previous ruling, I am commenting on the way informed of the change so that Queensland in which the Department of Equity and Fair consumers are not disadvantaged. Trading is being administered. I am going through the progression of administrative I was concerned that there were changes that have occurred. suggestions earlier this year that the Minister was going to revert to the practice applying Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! That does between 1991 and 1993 of having the head of not relate at all to this Bill, as the member her department also acting as commissioner. would be aware. As I said, although we allow Past history has shown quite clearly that trying wide-ranging debate, this is the third time that to merge the two positions inevitably results in the honourable member has strayed. I have consumer affairs issues being downgraded. tolerated it to date. The member will return to This was initially done in 1991 by Barry Smith the Bill. He has only two minutes left. when he was the Director-General of Justice Mr SANTORO: I conclude by saying that I following the notorious PSMC review of the look forward to the contributions of all other department and in an endeavour by him to honourable members and to their restricting sideline Jan Taylor. Jan Taylor's demise was a themselves, as I have, in relation to personal disaster for consumer affairs in this State. matters. Smith was totally ignorant of, and quite hostile Mr Welford: Disrespect to the Chair. towards, consumer affairs and spent most of his time on the phone to Wayne Goss. Then in Mr SANTORO: No, I respect the Chair. 1992 a separate Department of Consumer That is the reason why I am concluding and I Affairs was created and Brian Stewart was will not make any further comments in relation appointed both the DG of the department and to the administrative personnel of the the commissioner. At least that was sensible in department. Instead, I will avail myself of any the context of having a dedicated department future opportunities to do so. Unless the focused solely on fair trading matters. department is administered by competent people, the sorts of problems that I have That arrangement came to an end when outlined in this contribution will continue to in late 1993 the department was merged with grow, and this will be to the detriment of the Emergency Services. The position was community and good public administration in advertised and, more than six months later, this State. Neil Lawson was appointed, even though he did not respond to the advertisements and Ms Spence: You poor thing. No-one was wallowing in nowhere land after being listens to you. sidelined in the Premier's Department. Mr SANTORO: The Minister said, "You Nevertheless, there were some notorious poor thing." However, the problem for the Labor applicants for the job, including both Minister is that, when I prepared this Raelene Kelly and Marg O'Donnell. As I have contribution, I consulted widely with a lot of the said previously in this place—it is a matter of interest groups that gave me material. I am record—Marg O'Donnell was rejected by the not a computer expert. However, a lot of selection panel. It is richly ironic that a person people are. I consulted them. All of the who could not get the position of Minister's interjections, abuse and quips will be Commissioner for Consumer Affairs on merit circulated to them. They will pay attention not and equity in 1994 was appointed director- just to the fact that I have represented their general of the department last year without views faithfully—and I hope, from their point of any advertising of the position and without a view, adequately—but also to the disdain and selection panel. contempt that the Minister has displayed In conclusion, I think this episode tells us towards the contributions of the honourable a lot about the standard of this Minister and member for Noosa and me. They will not like this Government. It is a mates' rates this, and it will be a long-term problem for the administration hell-bent on looking after Labor Minister. They will respect the Minister less for cronies and relegating the professional Public doing this. Service to the second-class seats. I note that Hon. J. C. SPENCE (Mount Gravatt— on 9 June the Minister told the House that ALP) (Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait 5294 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 24 Nov 1999

Islander Policy and Minister for Women's selling of this system of software—BACHCO— Policy and Minister for Fair Trading) to South Australia and Western Australia, and (4.39 p.m.), in reply: I would like to begin by we are in the process of negotiating with the thanking the hardworking staff of the Northern Territory and Tasmania. The revenue Department of Fair Trading for the to the department for the licence to South amendments that we see before the House. Australia alone is $200,000. I understand that Much has been made today of the fact that it South Australia went live with the BACHCO has taken some time for this miscellaneous software on 1 November 1999 and has provisions Bill to be debated in the House. reported that it is extremely happy with that Obviously, a contribution of the blame for that software. So I would ask the shadow Minister delay must lay at the feet of the Opposition, to stop criticising this initiative of Queensland, who routinely managed to filibuster in this which other States in Australia regard as so House and spend days and days on one piece good that they are in fact considering buying of legislation. Then its members stand here that software package from Queensland. and criticise the fact that it is difficult to get The next point that the shadow Minister legislation through this place. went on to make related to a concern of the Mr DAVIDSON: I rise to a point of order. It Scrutiny of Legislation Committee in regard to is not the Opposition's fault that this Bill has our amendments to the Cooperatives Act. We taken seven months to be debated in this responded to the Scrutiny of Legislation House. It is the Minister's own responsibility to Committee by acknowledging that there are a ensure that it is debated. number of Henry VIII clauses in these Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr D'Arcy): amendments. However, this Cooperatives Act Order! The member has been here long is part of a national scheme of legislation, so enough to know the provisions of the Standing when we make amendments to the Orders. That is not a point of order. Cooperatives Act, it is done in conjunction with all of the other States in Australia. I am Ms SPENCE: Having had seven months pleased to tell the shadow Minister that if, in to prepare his contribution as shadow Minister fact, he had read all of the Alert Digests, then in response to this Bill, the member opposite he would have read in Alert Digest No. 7 of has used the resources of the Scrutiny of 1999 that the committee maintains its Legislation Committee entirely for his objection to the Henry VIII clauses but notes contribution today. I am happy to respond to that clauses 3, 4 and 6 form part of the the issues that have been raised by the national scheme legislation and therefore Scrutiny of Legislation Committee and its could be justified. concerns with this legislation. The final part of the contribution of the The first concern relates to clause 5 of the shadow Minister was obviously from a briefing Bill about the Associations Incorporation Act. that he received from the National Institute of In that clause we are basically changing the Accountants. It concerned the qualification of way that unsuitable names have been accountants who are often also appointed as declared in the Act in the past and we are auditors. I can assure the shadow Minister that amending it so that in future we can declare a we are in negotiations with the National name unsuitable by regulation. The Institute of Accountants over this particular Department of Fair Trading needs the flexibility issue and we intend to alter many of our Acts of a regulation because the situation could along the lines that they recommend, and arise in the future in which a name prohibition those amendments will be put forward in the needs to be introduced urgently. A further next Fair Trading miscellaneous provisions Bill. reason for retaining the present drafting style of the provision is to maintain consistency with I thank the member for Mundingburra for other legislation administered by the Office of her contribution. She displayed a good Fair Trading, for example, the Cooperatives understanding of the Acts that we are Act of 1997 and the Business Names Act of amending. I thank her for her constructive 1962. Both of those Acts have regulations contribution to the debate. whereby we can change names. This is Finally, the member for Clayfield really entirely consistent with those two particular should stop speaking during debates on fair Acts. trading legislation. It is embarrassing when he Then the shadow Minister went on to dares to hold up the former Minister as a criticise the BACHCO system that has been progressive and successful Fair Trading developed in Queensland for business names. Minister. I remind the Opposition that I am pleased to inform the House that retirement villages legislation has been Queensland has successfully negotiated the promised by many Governments, but no-one 24 Nov 1999 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 5295 else managed to bring retirement villages '15A. Section 119— legislation before this House. However, I have insert— done so, and I hope that it will be passed before Christmas. I hope that the Opposition '(3) Despite the repeal of the Code by the will allow the Government to move on with the Financial Sector Reform (Queensland) Act business of this House so that that legislation 1999, section 17, subsections (1) and (2) can be debated before Christmas. continue to apply as if the Code had not been repealed.'.'." I remind the Opposition that although their former Minister did introduce new Amendment agreed to. auctioneers and agents legislation, it lay on Clause 16, as read, agreed to. the table of this House for eight months and Insertion of new clause— once the debate started he got defeated on the first two amendments. He threw in the Ms SPENCE (4.48 p.m.): I move the towel and that legislation never saw the light of following amendment— day again, and then we had an election. What "At page 14, after line 15— an abysmal failure that was on the part of the insert— former Government and what an embarrassment for the member for 'PART 2A—AMENDMENT OF BILLS OF Indooroopilly! I bet he does not thank the SALE AND OTHER INSTRUMENTS ACT member for Clayfield for bringing up that 1955 matter in today's debate and reminding him of 'Act amended in part 2A that great embarrassment. '16A. This part amends the Bills of Sale Mr Lucas: It is a deliberate tactic to and Other Instruments Act 1955. undermine him; that is what the member for 'Insertion of new s 49A Clayfield is doing. '16B. Part 5, after section 49— Ms SPENCE: That is what it is about— reminding us about the failure of the member insert— for Indooroopilly and his very poor 'Validation performance as a consumer affairs Minister in '49A.(1) It is declared that anything done this State. between 23 April 1999 and 7 May 1999 I am very proud of the amount of that would have been validly done, or legislation that we have put through the House effectual, under this Act had the in the 15 months since I have been the amending Act commenced on 23 April Minister for Fair Trading. As honourable 1999 is and always was as valid and members can see, we have another three effectual as if the amending Act had pieces of legislation in relation to building commenced on 23 April 1999. services and retirement villages before the '(2) In this section— House at the moment. I commend the work of my department. It is a hardworking "amending Act" means the Bills of Sale department. I commend this Bill to the House. and Other Securities Amendment Act 1999, part 2 and the schedule. Motion agreed to. "done" includes, made, applied for, registered, discharged, renewed, given, Committee exercised, charged, established, changed Hon. J. C. SPENCE (Mount Gravatt— and omitted to be done. ALP) (Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait '(3) This section expires on 31 December Islander Policy and Minister for Women's 1999.'.'." Policy and Minister for Fair Trading) in charge Amendment agreed to. of the Bill. Clauses 17 to 26, as read, agreed to. Clauses 1 to 15, as read, agreed to. Clause 27— Insertion of new clause— Ms SPENCE (4.48 p.m.): I move the Ms SPENCE (4.48 p.m.): I move the following amendments— following amendment— "At page 20, lines 21 and 22, 'shares "At page 14, after line 4— in a cooperative'— insert— omit, insert— 'Amendment of s 119 (Special 'an offer or intended offer for subscription investigations) for shares in a cooperative or an invitation 5296 Equity and Fair Trading (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 24 Nov 1999

or intended invitation for shares in a omit. cooperative, but only if— 'Insertion of new s 24 (a) the shares are offered to persons '73C. After section 23D— who are not shareholders in the cooperative; or insert— (b) the invitation is made to persons who 'Validation are not shareholders in the '24.(1) It is declared that anything done cooperative'. between 23 April 1999 and 7 May 1999 that would have been validly done, or At page 21, lines 5 to 7— effectual, under this Act had the omit, insert— amending Act commenced on 23 April 'subscription, in relation to a share offer or 1999 is and always was as valid and invitation, means the amount stated in a effectual as if the amending Act had disclosure statement under section 143 commenced on 23 April 1999. as the minimum amount, that in the '(2) In this section— opinion of the directors, must be raised by "amending Act" means the Bills of Sale the issue of shares.'." and Other Securities Amendment Act Amendments agreed to. 1999, part 3. Clause 27, as amended, agreed to. "done" includes, made, applied for, registered, discharged, renewed, given, Clauses 28 to 38, as read, agreed to. exercised, charged, established, changed Clause 39— and omitted to be done. Ms SPENCE (4.49 p.m.): I move the '(3) This section expires on 31 December following amendments— 1999.'.'." "At page 26, lines 8 to 10— Amendment agreed to. omit, insert— Clause 74, as amended, agreed to. 'are adopted by this section and apply to Clause 75— an issue of debentures to which Ms SPENCE (4.50 p.m.): I move the section 257 applies.'. following amendments— At page 26, line 13, 'or 260'— "At page 40, lines 8, 11, 12 and 22 omit." and page 41, line 5, 'juridic'— Amendments agreed to. omit, insert— Clause 39, as amended, agreed to. 'juridical'. At page 40, line 22, 'of the church'— Clauses 40 to 60, as read, agreed to. omit, insert— Clause 61, as read, negatived. 'under canon law'." Clause 62, as read, negatived. Amendments agreed to. Clauses 63 to 73, as read, agreed to. Clause 75, as amended, agreed to. Insertion of new clause— Clause 76, as read, agreed to. Ms SPENCE (4.50 p.m.): I move the following amendment— Clause 77— Ms SPENCE (4.51 p.m.): I move the "At page 39, after line 15— following amendment— insert— "At page 42, line 6, before 'an'— 'PART 9A—AMENDMENT OF LIENS ON insert— CROPS OF SUGAR CANE ACT 1931 'a religious institute or'." 'Act amended in pt 9A Amendment agreed to. '73A. This part amends the Liens on Crops of Sugar Cane Act 1931. Clause 77, as amended, agreed to. Clauses 78 to 84, as read, agreed to. 'Omission of s 23A Schedules 1 and 2, as read, agreed to. '73B. Section 23A, as inserted by Act No. 40 of 1992— Bill reported, with amendments. 24 Nov 1999 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 5297

Third Reading very corporate and strategic plans it is Bill, on motion of Ms Spence, by leave, developing. The first point I make to the read a third time. Minister is that I would hope for the remainder of the term of this Government there is a reprieve from unsettling changes and that the TRADE MEASUREMENT AMENDMENT BILL Office of Fair Trading is given the opportunity Second Reading to get on with the job. This is particularly important so far as the fair trading branch, Resumed from 8 June (see p. 2180). which is responsible for trade measurement Mr DAVIDSON (Noosa—LP) (4.52 p.m.): law enforcement, is concerned. In rising to speak on the Trade Measurement First, the role of trade measurement Amendment Bill, I firstly acknowledge that the inspectors is critical to the efficient operation of amendments proposed appear reasonable. a fair marketplace. It is often not appreciated Since a broad national agreement was just how important the work of these inspectors reached in 1990 on uniform trade is. When I read in this year's annual report of measurement legislation, Queensland has the Department of Equity and Fair Trading that traditionally led the way in first enacting the a new high flow LPG test unit was used by the model law and, after that, in keeping it in inspectors to verify bulk LPG meters used in accordance with uniform recommendations for household and commercial deliveries, it reform. It is appropriate to mention that the brought home that the fair trading branch is Trade Measurement Advisory Committee, involved in highly technical and critically formed by the Ministerial Council on Consumer important tasks. Affairs in 1995, has, as far as I have been able to ascertain, done a very good job. This Bill is Many people envisage trade measurement inspectors as simply checking a product of its recommendations. I also place whether scales in butcher shops or on the public record that the trade supermarkets are accurate. I might add that it measurement inspectorate in the Office of Fair is often overlooked that if, say, a large Trading has always had a very good supermarket constantly but only marginally reputation. Compared with some other States, gets its measurements wrong, there is not only Queensland has given trade measurement a risk of significant consumer detriment but issues the priority they deserve. also the probability of distortions in the One of the problems that has often marketplace to the disadvantage of bedevilled the Office of Fair Trading is that it commercial competitors. However, the task of has been generally under funded and moved trade measurement under the Act is much from pillar to post. In 1990, trade wider than that. It is not simply weights and measurement and consumer affairs were measures, as traditionally understood. It transferred from the Industrial Relations involves checking petrol bowsers, scanning Department to the Justice Department. In machines at retail outlets, LPG measurements 1992 it was made into a separate department, and even whether police speed cameras are but in just 12 months it was merged with accurate. Each and every one of these issues Emergency Services. In 1996 the coalition put have come up in the past. So this task is consumer affairs back with the Department of critical to prevent consumer detriment and Justice, where there is commonality of interest, ensure fair competition and even general law but again in 1996 it was transferred to its enforcement. current home where, with all due respect to The second reason it is important is that this Government, there is little administrative weights and measures is one of the few areas logic to its being housed with the Office of specified in the Commonwealth Constitution as Women's Policy and with the Minister a Federal matter which the Federal responsible for the Department of Aboriginal Government has not taken up. There have and Torres Strait Islander Policy. been moves over the past few years by both The impact of these constant changes Labor and coalition Governments to take over and disruptions on the Office of Fair Trading this area, but fortunately it has not come to would be hard to estimate, except that surely pass. I say "fortunately" because we have a to goodness sooner or later the importance of decentralised State, with trade measurement this office will begin to radically suffer if these inspectors situated up and down the coast. I constant illogical transfers continue. It makes a am sure that any Federal takeover would result mockery of corporate strategic planning in an in significant cutbacks of essential services to organisation like this when the fundamental regional Queensland. That is why it is changes inflicted on it by successive important for whoever the Government in Governments are largely inconsistent with the power in this State is to make sure that trade 5298 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 measurement issues are looked after and legislation the circumstances of the inspector's properly funded. discretion, as this could result in greater I note that the Scrutiny of Legislation detriment to consumers. The committee Committee raised in Alert Digest No. 8 the accepted the Minister's explanation, and I also issue of the Bill being part of a largely uniform think it is fair. legislative exercise. It noted that as it was part It is not good practice to tightly limit of national scheme legislation the scope of inspectorial discretion in legislation because, any amendment is limited by the fact that the as this Bill highlights, it could result in sponsoring Minister will assert that, as it is unforeseen consequences. However, I would predicated upon the agreement of various like to know whether there is a current jurisdictions, no significant amendment would prosecution policy for the trade measurement be possible. That may or may not be the case. area. One way of ensuring that there is a Certainly there is nothing to stop this consistent and fair approach is to have a Parliament seeking to amend the legislation. I publicly available, transparent, practical and am sure that, if the amendments were fair policy. I ask the Minister, if there is an up- sensible, the Minister would be able to to-date policy, whether the circumstances of convince her ministerial council colleagues of exercising the 28-day discretion will be the desirability of agreeing to them. However, included and, if so, whether copies of the the bigger issue here is that, if there is to be policy are publicly available. any State legislation at all and any chance of I think the proposal to allow batch testing the committee or any parliamentarians having of beer jugs and spirit measures should be input, then there must be national scheme supported by industry, and it is only sensible legislation. It is not an optional extra. that the person doing the batch testing hold a While I understand why the committee servicing licence. Some other amendments takes its position on uniform legislation, I would facilitate the work of inspectors, including reject any suggestion in this context that this clause 16, which enables an inspector to approach is not proper, desirable and in the record the details of any article that is very best interests of Queensland. In fact, I examined or measured by, amongst other think it is poor that Western Australia has means, filming or photographing. No doubt obviously stuck its head in the sand since this may be of assistance in certain 1990 and has not participated and that circumstances. A further series of Tasmania, while agreeing to participate, has amendments that appears just and not yet enacted legislation. It is this sort of reasonable are those which provide that when political myopia at a State level that enables a trade has any measuring instruments for centralists in Canberra to suggest that the way prepacking one of those instruments must be to sort out these problems is taking provided for trade use. responsibility away from the States and giving One issue I would like some clarification it to the Commonwealth. on is clause 10. This clause amends section Turning to the clauses, some of the 23, which deals with incorrect measurement or amendments proposed are purely technical price calculation. As amended by clause 10, and others should have a beneficial impact on this section will read— business. I support, for example, the proposal "If an article is sold at a price to allow owners of measuring instruments 28 determined by reference to measurement days to rectify a problem. This amendment to of the article, the party who operates the section 8 provides— measuring instrument or decides the "If the person complies with the measurement is guilty of an offence if— notice, the person is taken not to have (a) he or she directly or indirectly committed an offence against this section misleads any other person who is a in relation to the circumstances in which party to a sale of the article as to the the notice relates." measurement of the article or the The Minister pointed out in her speech that calculation of the price, to that party's this discretion would be exercised where the detriment." error favours consumers. She later wrote to the I would like to know the implications of committee indicating that there would be these amendments. It would appear that they instances where the discretion would be extend liability to persons who determine the exercised even if it was to the detriment of the measurement, as well as to those operating consumer and gave as an example a sole measuring instruments. Is this the provision trader in a remote locality. The Minister pointed described in the Explanatory Notes on page 2 out that it would not be appropriate to codify in as enabling employees to be prosecuted for 24 Nov 1999 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 5299 non-compliance with licence conditions? Does Last year the number inspected had declined this amendment to clause 10 mean that a to 35,834. That is a drop of 6,000 or, again, person who only indirectly or unintentionally around 15%. Then there is the item relating to misleads a consumer can be prosecuted, even visits to traders to check trading practices. though they are simply an employee who Again we see a decline during this period—in determines the measure without realising that this case from 6,518 to 5,563, and again in the measuring instrument is faulty? I look the range of 15%. forward to the Minister indicating that this is not I think the true nature and extent of what the case, because I think it would be unfair appears to be a significant malaise in this area and inappropriate for an employee who is at can be determined when we look at the little or no fault to be at risk of prosecution. number of complaints received and the Before concluding, I will make some number of complaints investigated. In the last comments about the current status of trade year of coalition Government, this area measurement in Queensland as disclosed by received 290 complaints, and 290 complaints the annual report of the Department of Equity were investigated. In other words, each and and Fair Trading. On page 11 of what is a very every complaint received by the trade thin departmental report is a table setting out measurement area was looked into. No doubt the various services delivered by trade there will always be a few complaints that are measurement inspectors and the not justified, but this office at least looked at measurement laboratory. First, I note that over each and every consumer or trader complaint the last year the laboratory verified 8,126 while the coalition was in office. What do we standards of measurement. If I am not see under the first year of this Government, mistaken, this is, in part at least, a fee for under the administration of this Minister? We service operation. see that 312 complaints were received but Unfortunately, over the past year the only 304 were investigated. Again, this amount of measurements verified has represents a drop in the standards we have dropped from 8,676 to 8,126. The annual come to expect from the trade measurement report indicates that this is due to reduced area. demand from external clients. This is despite Finally, we see the figures for the fact that two new measurement items were investigations completed. I note that these developed and manufactured to assist trade figures include both trade measurement and measurement officers in their work. I would like fair trading. When my colleague the member the Minister in her reply to indicate why her for Indooroopilly was the Minister with department has advised that there has been a responsibility for this area, 410 investigations drop in external demand. Is it because of were completed. Yet under this Minister only delays in service provision? Is it because of 369 investigations have been completed. In external competition? Is it due to reduced staff other words, in one year alone there has been or resources? I will be interested to hear the a 10% drop in the number of investigations Minister's explanation, if she has one. finalised. Of much greater concern is that, when Certainly I am concerned about these one examines the various activity indicators for figures and what they say about the fair trade measurement, one sees in the first year trading branch. There is no doubt that of this Government a decline across-the-board. inspectors in the fair trading branch do a very In my opinion, the key measure of a proactive good job under very difficult circumstances. trade measurement inspectorate is the They work with the Queensland Police Service number of instruments tested. During the last and the Building Services Authority. In the past year of coalition Government 16,088 they have cooperated with the Federal Police instruments were tested, but in the first year of and Federal Customs. The range of criminal the Beattie Government that figure declined to and fraudulent conduct they have to 13,479. Perhaps there is a good explanation investigate is enormous. They need all the why in the space of one year the Office of Fair help and assistance possible. The Trading tested 2,500 fewer instruments—a department's annual report makes it clear that decline of around 15%. this is an area which is facing difficult times If that were the only indicator, I would and is under pressure. accept excuses about seasonal variation or I would hope that in these circumstances changing priorities, or even a move to self- the trade measurement work of the branch is checking or external checking. But the next not downgraded or reprioritised. In the past the item is the number of packages inspected. In trade measurement inspectorate had an 1997-98, 41,885 packages were inspected. extremely good reputation in the business 5300 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 community. I know that other administrations, adequate support, otherwise the both in Australia and overseas, look to this Commonwealth Government will step in. As office for assistance and guidance. If my the shadow Minister has already indicated, memory serves me correctly, a few years ago under the Constitution the Federal this area was approached by the Fiji Government does have responsibility in this Government for help. area. It is not very difficult at all for it to step in. In conclusion, I support the Bill and the This is one of the few areas under the ongoing efforts to maintain uniform and up-to- Constitution of this country where the Federal date trade measurement legislation. That Government has not stepped in and taken Queensland has taken the lead in introducing over. legislation agreed to by the Ministerial Council All members would be aware that on Consumer Affairs is a positive development Commonwealth Governments of all political which deserves the support of this Parliament. persuasions move into a whole host of sectors It will send the appropriate signal to other that are not their responsibility and take them Parliaments to follow suit. However, my over. We have seen that happen over a long positive views of the legislation are not period. But section 51 (xv) of the Constitution matched by positive views of how trade states that weights and measures are a measurement is being administered at the Commonwealth responsibility. That gives the moment. The indicators published in the clear indication that, if the Commonwealth annual report are extremely worrying. I hope wants to, it can move into that sector and that the Minister and the Government take there is very little that the States can do about quick and appropriate action to prevent serious it. Therefore, it is important for us to ensure problems arising. that we, as a State, continue to deliver those professional standards for which we have been Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly—LP) noted. It is probably because Queensland has (5.07 p.m.): I rise to speak about the Trade done so well under Governments of various Measurement Amendment Bill, which is a political persuasions—and it goes back over terribly important piece of legislation. It is great many decades—and put so much effort into to see that in this area Queensland is the this that we have led the other States, and the leading State. Over the years Queensland has Commonwealth has seen fit to allow us to been a leader in the administration of weights continue. and measures in this country. I remember that, about halfway through It is fair to say that, probably because the last term of the Government of which I was Queensland has done such a great job in this the Minister for Consumers Affairs, the matter particular area and has been the lead arose that the previous Government had given agency—it has had the professional standards some consideration to these changes. And as necessary—the Commonwealth Government the Minister points out in the Explanatory has not seen fit to move in and take over, Notes, agreements were reached in the early although I know that on a number of nineties. Nevertheless, the current Federal occasions it has looked at the possibility of Government indicated little or no interest in the taking it over. Queensland has always been issue, and a discussion ensured that able to indicate quite clearly that we are able Queensland continued to lead the way in to be the lead agency and to set the legislation in this regard and the States standards. That Queensland has been the continued to retain their responsibilities for lead agency means that we carry out this task weights and measures. I look forward to the in such a professional way. We have taken a Minister giving an indication that this more developed approach to the whole area Government will continue to ensure that there of weights and measures than have other are adequate resources. I am sure that all States. As the former Minister responsible for honourable members would admit that it is a Consumer Affairs, I know that people used to fairly people-intensive process. We have to talk about the fact that Queensland was much have people checking on things and, of further advanced in this area than were other course, adequate funding needs to States. We put greater effort into this area in accompany that. terms of resources—both financial and human I think it is fair to say that no Federal resources. I trust that that will continue under Government can possibly deliver the types of this Minister. checks and services that a State I believe that it is terribly important that Government—whether it be Queensland, New the States continue to set the standard in this South Wales or Western Australia—can deliver regard. For this to occur, State Governments to ensure that weights and measures meet the will need to continue to ensure that there is required standards. Most people take the 24 Nov 1999 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 5301 required standards for granted. But to other States will follow, and there will be no someone on Thursday Island or in Birdsville justification for the Commonwealth who is buying flour or soft drinks, filling up their Government—no matter which party is in fuel tank or buying some fertiliser or whatever, power—to step in and take over this particular if they find that the weights and measures of role, which could not possibly be delivered in the products that they are purchasing are well the same manner as State Governments out of kilter—no doubt underweight—they will deliver it. In other sectors, we have seen the lack certainty in their purchases. It is important Commonwealth Government step in. But no that people have a sense of certainty when matter which party is in office, a purchasing goods and services. Commonwealth Government cannot deliver All honourable members would know that, the required services to the far-flung parts of from time to time, consumer affairs officers this vast nation and State as well as a State and trade measurement officers visit a range Government can. of shops and retailers across-the-board and I am pleased with this legislation. I had a find that someone has been short- little to do with it when members on this side of changed—that weights are short for various the Chamber were in Government. Following reasons or that drink or fuel measurements are various meetings, it was due to be ready short. Quite often, that occurs through no fault towards the end of last year. I expected it to of the particular retailer; sometimes it happens come in either late last year or early this year. I by accident, but sometimes it happens on am pleased that it has finally come into this purpose. Nevertheless, those matters are Parliament, and I congratulate the Department picked up and rectified, and all of us— of Equity and Fair Trading on the work that it purchasers and consumers—can go about our does in this particular regard. business with a degree of certainty. Mr PURCELL (Bulimba—ALP) Officers from the Office of Fair Trading (5.17 p.m.): I must congratulate the Minister travel throughout this vast State doing a range on another successful Bill that she has brought of checks covering fuel and weights and into this House to look after the consumers of measures. Those checks are necessary to Queensland. When this Minister took over her ensure that people maintain that certainty. I portfolio only 12 months or so ago, the can think of no worse area in which to lose that consumers of Queensland were very fortunate. degree of certainty and suddenly feel ripped When speaking about trade off than in weights and measures. If that measurements, blokes of my era revert to the happens, there will certainly be a hue and cry. old measurements—the old money. We As I said, the Commonwealth has the powers understand feet and inches, bushels, pecks, to step in. rods and perches and those sorts of things. This issue also greatly affects Ms Spence interjected. businesses—the costs, the delays, the Mr PURCELL: The Minister is so young expense and even the shapes and sizes of that she does not know what I am talking containers, milk bottles, cereal boxes and so about. I had better not say anything else. forth. Businesses need to be certain that the weights and measures of what they are selling As to the background of this legislation— to the consumers are in accordance with the in 1995, the Trade Measurement Advisory required standards and that there is no Committee was formed by the Ministerial discrepancy. Of course, a business can suffer Council on Consumer Affairs, with one of its greatly if something like this occurs, whether it functions being the review of trade be by accident or on purpose—and I say "by measurement legislation on a national basis. accident" because I am sure that most of The TMAC recommended more than 40 these incidents occur by accident; amendments to the trade measurement Acts nevertheless, they still occur. A business can and regulations of participating States and go out of business very quickly if it is found to Territories. be short-changing its consumers in whatever Mr Grice: Forty? products or services it might be dealing. Mr PURCELL: Yes, 40. It considered that So it is important that all of us, as that would improve trade measurement members of Parliament, ensure that the State administration. It is proposed that these Government—of whatever political amendments to the Queensland legislation will persuasion—continues to deliver the types of be used as a model by the other participating services for which this State has been known States and Territories to amend their own in relation to trade measurements. And if we legislation. Here it is: template legislation being can set the necessary professional standards, formed by this Minister—by Queensland—for 5302 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 the rest of Australia to follow. I believe that this I will return to the Bill. An amendment is groundbreaking legislation being put allows the owners of measuring instruments 28 together by Queensland. days to rectify certain major breaches of the As to some of the amendments—I do not legislation. At present, if an instrument is intend to go through all 40 of them, but there incorrect, whether it is in favour of the are a few that I will touch on to give members consumer or not, the trader must cease using the flavour of what this legislation is about. The the instrument immediately. The amendment amendments contained in the Bill include an allows an inspector to exercise a discretion to amendment of the meaning of allow the trader to continue to use the "measurement" that clarifies that instrument for a period of up to 28 days before "measurement" in legislation means net being prosecuted for an offence under the Act. measurement and not gross measurement. If a petrol pump at Birdsville is supposed to be That was considered necessary to close measuring in litres and it is measuring more loopholes allowing unscrupulous traders to than a litre and the consumers are getting include packaging in the stated weight, to the more petrol than they are paying for— detriment of unwitting consumers. If a Mr Grice: Or oil. consumer buys a bag of dog food, the Mr PURCELL: We do not pump oil into consumer is paying for the weight of the food them. Perhaps cars at Wynnum need to have in the bag, not the weight of the bag along oil pumped into them. with it. Consumers will not lose half a kilo or a Mr Grice: Did he do the second lap? couple of kilos depending on how heavy the bag is and what sort of paper it is made from. Mr PURCELL: Spud did the second lap. He ended up with 40 quid. He had a great Mr Grice: What about a packet of chips? day. Mr PURCELL: The same principle applies Mr GRICE: I rise to a point of order. Was to a packet of chips: the consumer is paying correct weight semaphored? for what is in the bag and not the packaging. As the member for Crows Nest would know, Mr PURCELL: Sadly, by the end of the three bushels of wheat would fit into one bag. day, Spud did not have a shilling of that 40 Consumers do not pay for the weight of the quid left. It was fairly early in the day when he bag; they pay for the wheat, because it was did it and he got rid of the lot. It is fairly thirsty put over the scales. Those bags weighed 180 work trotting around racetracks with wheat pounds. We could pick them up all day and bags on your shoulder. still laugh. We would pick them up and carry This amendment will save the petrol them around. bowser at Birdsville. There are not too many petrol bowsers at Birdsville. If the customers Mr Cooper interjected. are getting more than they pay for, an Mr PURCELL: Mr Deputy Speaker, may I inspector does not have to close that bowser digress? down. He can say, "I will be back in 28 days", Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Mickel): I or, "Within 28 days you have to have that have been waiting for the honourable rectified." gentleman to speak to the Bill. Mr Littleproud interjected. Mr PURCELL: Mr Deputy Speaker, I am Mr PURCELL: He can use his discretion. sure you would like to know that Spud Murphy If it is going against the consumer, I would had a bet at the Cowra racetrack on picnic measure it in a container. That is the only way day. There was a big crowd there. The bookies I would let the retailer continue to use the took bets that he could not trot around the measure. The container measurement would Cowra racetrack with a bag of wheat on his have to be right. shoulder. Spud was not very big. He was a This Bill will permit the prosecution of returned serviceman from World War II. The employees of licence holders for non- bookie, Big G—Gordon Hennessy—said, "I will compliance with licence conditions where the give you 20 quid if you can do it. I will make a employee has been adequately trained by the fortune out of these other mugs here, because employer and knowingly breaches the they will reckon you won't." So off Spud went. legislation. The employer will not be found He had to jog the full two miles around the liable if employees are knowingly not giving Cowra track. He got around to the finishing consumers the right measurement or the right post and said, "Big G, how are we doing?" He amount—for example, a butcher who has his said, "I've made heaps." Spud said, "Tell them thumb on the scale or who puts a couple of double or nothing and I'll do it again." chops and a couple of sausages into a bag to 24 Nov 1999 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 5303 take home. I should say that butchers in Dr PRENZLER: I hope they were the full Bulimba do not do that. They always give 750 millilitres. consumers correct weight. If anything, they would be over the weight. I support the stated objectives of this legislation to implement the recommendations Provision will also be made for the of the Trade Measurement Advisory licensing of partnerships. Partners are required Committee and thereby continue the move to hold individual licences under the current towards uniformity of trade measurements legislation. The amendment will allow licences throughout Australia. However, I have some to be issued to a partnership without requiring concerns relating to what appears to be a individual partners to obtain a licence. discrepancy between the Bill as presented and Prosecutions for breaches will be against the the Minister's second-reading speech. The individuals and companies involved in the Minister refers to "removing the regulatory partnership, but this amendment will save burden of marking weights on agricultural traders the expense of individual licence fees, products with consequential cost savings". As which can run into a fair bit of money if there that is not reflected in the Bill, I ask the are a number of individuals involved. Minister for clarification of that point. I also Another amendment provides that when point out that the marking of weight on a trader has any measuring instrument for agricultural products takes minimum time and prepacking, one of those measuring efforts and costs little. This Bill, aimed at the instruments must be approved for trade use. uniformity and accuracy of measuring This amendment will allow traders to have non- instruments, has no effect upon the reasoning approved measuring instruments on the behind marking the weight upon agricultural premises that are being used as part of the products. I find it confusing as to why the preparation process. The current legislation Minister has even mentioned such an age-old requires all measuring instruments on the and simple procedure. premises to be of an approved type. That Two new provisions in Part 2 of the Act will amendment will definitely save traders in the give an inspector discretionary powers in bush money. When I was young, I worked at a regard to the course of action he or she bagging place, Newpro. When filling up bags—even when filling them up roughly adopts on finding a measuring instrument that before bringing them over to top up and does not comply with the terms of the Act. sew—every instrument that measured or Mr Lucas: I heard you wanted to put us weighed had to be spot-on. When you are back on the gold standard. Is that right? banging down bags and filling bags all day, the instruments soon get knocked about. Dr PRENZLER: On the gold standard? Those instruments do not need to be spot-on. No, not really—the carats can stay there. However, when the bags are being topped up This Bill gives the inspector the prior to being sewn up, the scales used must discretionary power to grant up to 28 days to be spot-on. That amendment will save a lot of the trader concerned to amend the problem at money for traders. The worker can get close to hand. In her second-reading speech, the the money and then put it on the trade Minister states that that discretion will be measure to get the measurement correct exercised only when the discretion is in favour before it is sewn. of the consumer. The Bill makes no reference I congratulate the Minister on the whatsoever to the accuracy or otherwise of the marvellous job that she has done in getting measuring instrument benefiting the consumer this Bill and other Bills into the House recently. but refers only to whether or not it carries an I know that the consumers of Queensland will inspector's or licensee's mark. benefit from this Bill and so will the consumers My understanding is that this mark or of Australia, because this will be the template stamp indicates only that the instrument was in legislation that will be used throughout compliance with section 13 of the Act at the Australia. time of verification or reverifications. It does not Dr PRENZLER (Lockyer—ONP) and cannot provide a guarantee that the (5.27 p.m.): I am wondering whether Spud instrument remains in compliance indefinitely. Murphy received full glasses of beer on the Once again, we see that the proposed day. They would have needed to be measured legislation does not reflect the Minister's also; they may have had too much head on comments. I will be moving amendments them. during the Committee stage to address this Mr Purcell: He was knocking back long lack of qualification upon an inspector's necks. discretionary power. 5304 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999

Another error is located in clause 9(2), Mr LITTLEPROUD: The Honourable which amends section 10(2) of the Act. This Minister for Transport should speak for himself. appears to include a drafting error that I will Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank you for also move to amend. Clause 9(2) is allowing me that levity. In relation to the Bill incomplete and does not make absolute before the House, I draw the attention of the sense unless exactly what it is the Minister to an issue that arose in my electorate administering authority is deciding the classes about two years ago. At that time, I did not get and denominations of is inserted. Considering a satisfactory result. I thought that just a bit of that clause 9(1) refers to the classes and commonsense was needed to resolve the denominations of reference standards of problem. A gentleman in Jandowae owns a measurement, I suggest that clause 9(2) trucking firm. He also has a public weighbridge. should also refer to the reference standards of He has nothing against the requirement for the measurements. scales to be checked. However, he called me I understand that this Bill is to be used as in a rather irate state and said that, although a model by other participating States and the department has the responsibility of Territories. As such, it is imperative, both for checking the scales—and this weighbridge the efficient administration of the legislation in takes weights up to 20 tonnes or 30 this State and for our standing in the eyes of tonnes—what gets up his nose is that, other Legislatures, that this Bill be free from although the department found that there was error or ambiguity and must accurately reflect a fault with the scales, it was not allowed to the recommendations of the Trade adjust them on the spot. He explained to me Measurement Advisory Committee and the that he then had to contact a firm that adjusts Minister's comments. If the Minister can scales. They had to come out to him in a address any of my concerns satisfactorily, I will seven tonne or eight tonne truck with all sorts be happy to withdraw my amendments. As I of heavy equipment on it. They charged him stated at the beginning of my speech, the mileage, and it cost him about $1,700 to get objective of this Bill is commendable and, if our the scales adjusted. concerns are addressed, I can see no problem I realise that the Bill proposes that, if the with our support for it. error is in favour of the consumer, there will be some leniency granted. I have also read the Hon. B. G. LITTLEPROUD (Western amendment that will be proposed by the Downs—NPA) (5.31 p.m.): During his speech, member for Lockyer, which needs to be the member for Bulimba recalled some considered pretty carefully. The chap who incidents relating to weights and measures, which prompted me to recall one of my old owned the weighbridge asked me, "Why the memories. In 1960, I was a young dickens can't the department, as well as schoolteacher at Dulacca. In those days, check, make the adjustment necessary and Dulacca was a pretty small place—it is smaller charge a fee, or why can't we licence the now. I remember a chap named Ted people who sell the scales so that they go out Thompson, an old truckie who had passed the and check the scales and if they are stage of being useful as a truckie and had wrong—and they have the right equipment—to taken on the job of barman at the local hotel. then make the adjustment?" This issue Of a Friday afternoon, the locals used to becomes especially important during the gather at the pub. One night, Ted was talking wheat harvest. This chap has people coming about when he was shifting sand—he must to him on the way to deliver grain to grain have been in the building industry, as was the merchants. For them, time is of the essence. If member for Bulimba—and insisted that dry someone arrives with 12 tonnes or 15 tonnes of grain and this bloke is caught with scales sand was a lot heavier than wet sand. The that are not working properly, in his favour, he principal of the school, who was with me, has 28 days during which he cannot do a thing asked, "Do you mean to say that a ton of dry about it; he has to close down his weighbridge. sand is heavier than a ton of wet sand?" Of That does not seem very sensible. I ask the course, Ted, was remembering his days when he was working with trucks. He knew what he Minister to discuss this issue with her was talking about in terms weight per cubic department and work out some way in which metre, but did he not quite understand the the department can licence the people who nuance of the argument. Actually, it was not sell the scales to be able to make the checks worth while going to the pub that afternoon. in accordance with a service agreement with There were all sorts of foul things said about the department and then make the smart alec schoolteachers. adjustments and charge the person for it. If that can be done, I think that we might save a Mr Bredhauer: All of them true. lot of inconvenience for the people who own 24 Nov 1999 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 5305 the scales, save a lot of inconvenience for "If an article is sold at a price people who need to use those scales and also determined by reference to measurement overcome a problem that does not seem to of the article, the party who operates the me to be insurmountable. measuring instrument or decides the Mr GRICE (Broadwater—NPA) measurement, is guilty of an offence if— (5.35 p.m.): This Trade Measurement (a) he or she directly or indirectly Amendment Bill 1991 is a legislative change misleads any other person who is a that is necessary to keep the State's trade party to a sale of the article as to the measurement branch as up to date as the measurement of the article or the measuring devices that they are charged with calculation of the price, to that other testing. It is thus enlightening and instructive to party's detriment." learn that the inspectorate that operates under this legislation is responsible, through its Although I understand the intent of this laboratory station, for the manufacture and amendment, and certainly agree with the installation of new measuring devices and the intent, I have a concern that, under this commencement of work on the manufacture proposed new section, an employee operating of a high-precision weighing instrument to test such devices, which may be faulty, could be large weights for industry in Queensland. held to be responsible for inaccurate weighing or measurement. Again, I ask the Minister to The new high-flow LPG test unit that is comment on that issue in her reply. Obviously, used to inspect bulk LPG meters for that would be totally unfair to unsuspecting household and commercial deliveries is again employees. I hope that the Minister takes testimony to the up-to-date competence of the measures to ensure that this amendment inspectorate. The average consumer would does not intend that to be the case. It is never in their daily activity have need of the commonsense—and I would ask the Minister inspectors of the trade measurement branch to comment on this issue—that there are two of the Department of Fair Trading, yet every different categories of people who may be day of their lives is conditioned by the work of involved in an unfair weight of produce, that is, this group in their constant checking of all somebody who is having a bit of a rort, and an weighing, measuring and, these days, even innocent employee. paying machines. Such is the competence of this inspectorate that I am told that, in the past I believe that this would be a retrograde 12 months, only 312 complaints were step, as the trade measurement inspectors are received. When compared to the transactions a highly specialised team and should be left to of all descriptions that take place daily, that is operate on its own in the area of trade indeed a testimony to the diligence of the measurement. If such a consideration is being inspectors and their vigilance. pursued, I hope that the Minister will immediately desist from this line of thinking. A complaint has been made by traders This specialised section of the Department of who have their measuring devices checked Fair Trading has earned a very enviable randomly. As members would expect from reputation for its performance and should be reputable traders, there is no dispute to either allowed to continue with its important tasks the right to conduct or the need for such under its own management. inspections. However, when traders then receive a charge from the department for this These amendments to the Trade random check, they are understandably Measurement Act can be only beneficial for peeved that, having breached no statute, they the proper administration of Queensland are required to pay for the privilege of being trading houses. I commend the Bill to the proved honest. In the Minister's reply, she House. might make some comment about that. It Hon. J. C. SPENCE (Mount Gravatt— does not seem to be quite a fair situation, ALP) (Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait because it appears to be very much the case Islander Policy and Minister for Women's that honesty really does mean that one has to Policy and Minister for Fair Trading) pay. It is a random test, and then one gets the (5.39 p.m.), in reply: I thank all members who bill. I can understand a charge for traders who have spoken in the debate today. It is ask to be checked, but random testing should interesting that so many members are be accepted as a Government activity and interested in the area of trade measurement. It thus non-chargeable. is obvious that members of Parliament have a The only area on which I would appreciate great appreciation of the wonderful work that is clarification on the ramifications of this done by the 25 trade inspection officers in this legislation is in relation to amended section 10, State. Members appreciate the large which will read— geographic area that those officers cover. 5306 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999

They visit the Torres Strait and western more detailed answers. They were legitimate Queensland. They work by themselves, often questions. in fairly hostile environments. They have been The member for Lockyer foreshadowed a featured on a number of television programs number of amendments that he will move, and this year and have been dubbed the I will be happy to discuss those amendments "consumer cops". They deserve the in the Committee stage of the debate today. recognition that they are finally achieving, The member for Broadwater raised a very because they do a wonderful job for interesting point which, frankly, I had not Queensland consumers. thought much about. It is an important point, As members have mentioned, trade which is: why should people pay for random inspection officers ensure that the testing? It does not seem fair that if one is measurements that are put on beer, spuds, picked out at random one has to pay for the sausages or petrol are accurate. The fair privilege, even though that person may not trading measurement inspectors measure have done anything wrong. From talking to Mr even more interesting things, such as the shot- Bartlett, who heads the Trade Measurement puts, javelins and tape measures that are Branch, I understand that he is working on the used by the Little Athletics organisations that issue. He would like to propose some conduct sports for kids on Saturdays. The legislative changes. In fact, we are required to Queensland trade measurement inspectors charge them under the legislation and it would actually measure the lotto balls, because it is need some agreement if we stopped charging very important that the lotto balls are of equal them. I thank the member for raising that weight so that a particular ball does not fall point. We need to give it some attention. before the others. As members have I will be moving amendments in relation to mentioned, trade inspection officers check fining employees if they are using incorrect weigh bridges. Sometimes they have a very weights and measures. The amendments mundane role, but it can also be a very introduce provisions to target employees only interesting role. where we can prove that the employees were Last week, the fair trading inspectors correctly educated in their role. That might achieved an interesting prosecution. They alleviate some of the member's concerns. found that 500 gram packets of garlic that had I am happy to answer the question with come from China had shrunk en route and respect to the Jandowae weighbridge, were more than 5% short. The importer was because I have a briefing from my officers on fined $1,500 as a result of the underweighing the matter. Servicing licensees or repairers are of that stock. licensed to stamp scales when they are correct Mr Grice: Does the identical ball inspector and, in fact, can install, adjust and stamp all have such discoveries? new weighbridges in Queensland. Spot Ms SPENCE: I am not going to talk any inspections occur at a later date to ensure more about the lotto balls. Members can talk accuracy. I am not sure if that answers all the to the fair trading inspectors about that. I invite concerns raised by the member for Lockyer, all members to go to the trade measurement but I am happy to discuss that with him at a section of the department, which is very later date. He raised a very legitimate issue on interesting. They have all the weights and behalf of his constituents. measures on show. It makes for an interesting I thank all members for their support for couple of hours, if members are keen to talk the Bill. I commend the Bill to the House. more about lotto balls. Motion agreed to. The trade measurement inspectors do a lot of work relating to seafood imports. We are looking at making legislative changes in that Committee significant area as well. Hon. J. C. SPENCE (Mount Gravatt— I appreciate the comments of all ALP) (Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait members of the House, particularly the Islander Policy and Minister for Women's member for Bulimba, who showed a unique Policy and Minister for Fair Trading ) in charge understanding of the importance of this of the Bill. particular area, and the member for Clause 1 to 4, as read, agreed to. Indooroopilly. The member for Noosa, the shadow Minister, raised a number of issues Clause 5— concerning the annual reports that I do not Dr PRENZLER (Lockyer—ONP) have answers to today. I suggest that if he (5.47 p.m.): I move the following puts those questions on notice, he will receive amendment— 24 Nov 1999 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 5307

"At page 6, line 4— Chamber. Personally, I think it would have insert— been better if the honourable member had given us a bit more time to look at these 'provided the inspector takes into amendments rather than springing them on us consideration the benefit or detriment to during this debate. That is something that he the consumer and allows reasonable time might like to consider in the future so that I can for the instrument to be corrected have more time to consider them. We cannot considering the ease or difficulty with accept this amendment or indeed the next which to do so.'." amendment, for a number of reasons. In her second-reading speech, the As the honourable member would be Minister stated that this discretionary power aware from reading my speech and from those depends on whether or not the area is of of other members, the amendments that we benefit or detriment to the consumer. The Bill are proposing today have been through a fairly makes no such mention of this. The long and tortuous process. Over the past year, discretionary power of the inspector should be committees from around Australia have met to qualified so that he is able to give up to 28 agree upon the raft of amendments that we days to correct the instrument, depending on are moving today. This is only the first stage of whether or not the instrument is to the two stages of amendments to trade detriment or benefit of the consumer and measurement legislation Australiawide. The considering what the instrument is. Based on amendments that we are making today, which those qualifications, the inspector can order will be taken up by the other States once they the instrument to be corrected within a are passed in Queensland, are meant to be reasonable time, up to 28 days. the non-contentious amendments to the trade Mr LITTLEPROUD: I rise in support of this measurement legislation. The difficult amendment. As the Minister stated in her amendments will be made at the next stage. second-reading speech, the Bill introduces an No doubt they will cause some controversy. improvement in allowing 28 days to correct The first reason that we cannot accept things. The Bill allows the operator to continue, this amendment is that it would be unfair of us only so long as any discrepancy is in the to amend an agreed position at the whim of favour of the consumer. However, I agree with the Chamber. That is always a difficulty when the amendment proposed by the member for dealing with national uniform legislation. In Lockyer. many respects, we have locked ourselves into The member for Bulimba raised a pretty a position and, therefore, it is difficult for any good example of the practicality of applying Parliament to depart from that position. things. He gave the example of a petrol pump Secondly, the honourable member is asking at Birdsville, which is a pretty remote spot. If us to do something that we believe can and there is only a small discrepancy either way will be done; this is an administrative process and one is in a remote part of Queensland or and it will be part of the enforcement policy of the need is dire, it is not unreasonable to ask the department. It will be well known by traders the department to say, "A bit of an adjustment throughout Queensland. We do not believe has to be made because it is out a little. that it is necessary to have this type of wording However, because of the prevailing conditions in the legislation for this to have effect. The or the remoteness of the spot, we will allow it honourable member is quite right that under to continue for up to 28 days if the discrepancy this legislation it is intended that a degree of is to the consumer's advantage and also if it is discretion can be exercised by trade to the advantage of the person who is measurement officers. For the first time we are dispensing." It is unfortunate that the giving trade measurement inspectors the department might face a little bit of flak, but if discretion to allow traders up to 28 days to the Minister gives a bit of thought to it, there is remedy a defect with a measuring instrument merit in the amendment in terms of being before they are deemed to have committed an flexible, especially in cases of dire need. offence. It is intended that this discretion will Ms SPENCE: I wish to respond to the first be exercised where the defect does not act to amendment. I thank the member for Lockyer the detriment of the consumer in the majority for bringing this to our attention. I think he has of cases. However, there may be some rare moved this motion in good spirit and that he circumstances when it will be necessary to believes that it will improve the legislation. I am exercise the discretion where the defect does the sort of Minister who is happy to accept act to the detriment of the consumer. amendments to legislation if I can and if I think I will give honourable members an that they will improve the legislation. In fact, I example. Where a petrol pump records what have done so on a number of occasions in this appears to be an incorrect volume 5308 Trade Measurement Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 measurement but the price charged for the amendment, and given the fact that my volume is correct, there may appear to be a second amendment to clause 7(3) is a detriment to the consumer, but there is in fact consequential amendment, I will withdraw my no detriment. It would be unfair for our officers second amendment. to close down a petrol pump in a town in Clause 7, as read, agreed to. Queensland if it is the only petrol pump and we can accept the trader's word that it can be Clause 8, as read, agreed to. remedied in a very short time. That certainly Clause 9— will be the policy direction of our officers and it Dr PRENZLER (5.56 p.m.): I move the is intended to be the enforcement policy that following amendment— other trade measurement officers around Australia will adopt. "At page 8, line 8, after 'denominations'— Basically, this issue is about whether we can do this through an enforcement policy or insert— whether words must be written into legislation. 'of reference standards of measurement I acknowledge the member's good intention, as'." but I think the wording he is proposing is very Clause 9(1) inserts the wording "classes broad. Whereas we have a policy of up to 28 and denominations of reference standards of days' discretion, the honourable member is measurement as the administering authority trying to put into legislation a policy which decides are necessary for the purpose of this allows "reasonable time", which is a very Act." Clause 9(2) inserts the wording "classes vague term and probably would not get past and denominations, decided by the the Scrutiny of Legislation Committee, anyway. administering authority." Clause 9(2) is not The amendment the honourable member is complete and does not make absolute sense proposing is fairly vague and broad. As we are unless it is clarified exactly what the going to be amending this legislation yet again administering authority is deciding the classes in the future, we may consider taking an idea and denominations of. Clause 9(1) refers to such as this to the next national meeting for "classes and denominations of reference consideration by the other States. standards of measurement". My amendment Mr LITTLEPROUD: I thank the Minister for will insert the same wording into clause 9(2) so her indication that it is intended to take this that it, too, refers to "classes and further. When the Minister meets with her denominations of reference standards of fellow Ministers, she might raise the following measurement". issue. The cost of freighting fuel is enormous. Ms SPENCE: The Government does not The price differential between Brisbane and wish to accept this amendment because we western Queensland is 15c a litre. A person think it is unnecessary. The words "of out there already knows that he will be reference standards of measurement as" are charged a lot more. For example, even if a already in section 10(1) of the Act and, as the pump is out by 2%, the 2% error in volume is member for Lockyer said, they are also in very little in comparison to the relatively high section 9(1) of the Act. We do not believe that price he is paying, anyway. For example, a anything is advanced by inserting these words person might pick up 1,000 litres at a distillate in clause 9(2). pump. The member for Bulimba said that he would like to see it measured out in four gallon Amendment negatived. lots. Measuring out 1,000 litres for a semitrailer Clause 9, as read, agreed to. would be laughable. The Minister said that Clauses 10 to 17, as read, agreed to. there would be sufficient flexibility such that the only pump in town might not be closed down. Clause 18— The Minister should also bear in mind that Mr LITTLEPROUD (5.58 p.m.): Again, I some people require huge volumes and to take this opportunity to raise the issue that I them the price differential is much more spoke about earlier and to which the Minister important than a small error in the volumetric gave a response. Perhaps she could talk to measure. her advisers and give me a bit more detail with Amendment negatived. respect to the Jandowae weighbridge—that is, Clause 5, as read, agreed to. not only when it was first put in, but any subsequent checks after that and who has to Clause 6, as read, agreed to. do the adjusting and the cost incurred. Clause 7— Ms SPENCE: I am happy to respond to Dr PRENZLER (5.55 p.m.): Given the the honourable member. I do not have that Minister's comments in respect of my previous information in front of me now, but I give the 24 Nov 1999 Persons Convicted of Offences Against Children 5309 honourable member an undertaking that I will Government to brief it on the issue, and I pay discuss that with my advisers tonight and get tribute to the Attorney-General and the back to him tomorrow in a round table Minister for Families, Youth and Community discussion. We can certainly meet with him Care for their willingness to sit down and arrive and decide how we can resolve that issue. at a constructive position on which all sides Clause 18, as read, agreed to. can agree. Bill reported, without amendment. Tonight we are going to deal with one of the most important issues that confronts any level of Government anywhere in the world. Third Reading Tonight we are going to deal with the safety of Bill, on motion of Ms Spence, by leave, our children—undoubtedly the most read a third time. defenceless members of our community. This issue is made even more important when honourable members consider the latest crime PERSONS CONVICTED OF OFFENCES figures presented to this Parliament a little over AGAINST CHILDREN a week ago. They showed, for example, an Mr SPRINGBORG (Warwick—NPA) alarming 12% jump in just one year in the (Deputy Leader of the Opposition) (6 p.m.): I number of children aged 14 and under who seek leave to withdraw the motion that I gave were the victims of sexual crimes in this State. notice in this Parliament this morning that I That is a total of 1,545. All members of this would move and replace it with another Chamber would find that statistic alone motion. horrifying. But children are also the victims of assaults and other crimes as well. That is why Leave granted. the State coalition is being constructive in a Mr SPRINGBORG: I move— non-political way to bring forward new ideas "That this Parliament supports the and models to combat this ever growing need to prevent unsuitable persons problem. gaining child-related employment and The motion before us tonight is not an refers to the Minister for Families, Youth issue of politics; rather, it is an issue of good and Community Care, in the context of Government, and that will be demonstrated by the development of the Childrens' the Attorney-General's decision to second this Commission legislation, the proposal of motion and also the comments by the Minister making it a criminal offence, punishable for Families, Youth and Community Care, who by a maximum five years imprisonment, has been very constructive in our discussions for anyone to seek or accept a this afternoon. No side of politics has a position—paid or unpaid—in an monopoly on the desire to protect children. I environment involving children where that think that fact is highlighted when one person has— considers this very telling point: the motion ¥ been convicted of a physical or being moved by the National and Liberal sexual offence against a child; or Parties in this Chamber this evening is not a policy that has its origins on the conservative ¥ where someone has received a court side of politics. Rather, it is a policy which we ordered prohibition." are quite happy to acknowledge stems from I think it is fair to say that tonight we are major and worthy reforms modelled on those going to witness something quite extraordinary being adopted by the Blair Labour where the shadow Attorney-General will move Government in Britain. a motion which will be seconded by the The State coalition supports making it a Attorney-General. I think that this is a clear criminal offence for anyone who has been display of how a State Parliament should convicted of an offence relating to a work—how a State Parliament should be child—both sexually and physically—to be able focusing on the issues which unite rather than to seek or accept employment in a position focusing on the issues which divide. which involves working with children. In This morning I gave notice that I would common with the model being adopted by the move a motion which underlined the State Blair Labour Government in Britain, we support coalition's strong belief that it should be a imposing a maximum penalty of five years' criminal offence for people who have imprisonment and we hope this position will committed offences against children to seek or ultimately be adopted by the State accept employment in a workplace involving Government as well. We support, based on children. After giving notice that I would move the model being adopted in Britain, looking at that motion, I sought a meeting with the making it a criminal offence for inappropriate 5310 Persons Convicted of Offences Against Children 24 Nov 1999 people to seek or accept employment in Straw went on to say— Government jobs, private sector jobs and jobs "My colleagues at the Department of with voluntary organisations. Health and the Department of Education The motion goes one step further; it also and Employment have been integral in seeks to allow a court to impose an order on developing the details of this scheme". anyone who has committed a serious enough He concluded, not by stepping back from the crime to prevent them also from seeking a job reforms, but adding— which involves working with children. This is aimed at preventing an inconsistency of, for "... similar schemes will be considered for example, banning a person who committed Scotland and Northern Ireland with the rape against a child, yet not being able to ban aim of an interlocking framework of a rapist who committed an offence against an protection for the UK as a whole". adult. I am sure that everyone in this Chamber In addition, Britain's Education Minister, Estelle agrees that neither people are suitable to work Morris, said on the same date— with children, and that is why a court must "I welcome these proposals. The have the power to impose an order invoking a measures build on the existing systems ban on some people who have committed for protecting children from unsuitable offences not relating to children. people and ... will provide an important Tonight we are not voting on complicated new safeguard." legislation. Instead, we are voting on a I believe there can be no doubt about the Blair principle. If we adopt this principle, then Government's intention when the Home Queensland can set about the processes of Secretary himself has clearly stated the beginning to draft legislation similar to that Government's support and intention to bring being drafted in the UK and tailoring it to our State's specific needs. It is my guess—and forward legislation. certainly my hope—that no-one can oppose Recently, the State Government this principle. announced its plans to introduce a system of Last week the Minister for Families, Youth penalties for employers who fail to undertake and Community Care, when speaking on other the necessary precautions and background legislation, referred to the model adopted by checks when appointing people to work in the Blair Government. She said— positions involving children. There has been some debate about the workings of the "There was a recommendation that Government's proposed legislation and, the Blair Government pursue something indeed, the State coalition has expressed along the lines of what is being proposed some of those very real concerns. But here, but it has yet to be picked up by the irrespective of how this Parliament ultimately Blair Government. It is not a piece of decides to resolve those concerns, tonight's legislation before their Parliament and, at motion will, if adopted, complement the this stage, has only the status of a general thrust of the State Government's working party recommendation. I have no legislation. If the Government is prepared to way of knowing what the intentions of the put in place a system of penalties for Blair Government are in relation to that employers who fail to undertake appropriate recommendation". checks, why should it not also put in place a This afternoon I had the opportunity to system of penalties for those unsuitable clarify that the Blair Government has gone people who knowingly try to penetrate a work further, and it is my view that we should, too. environment involving children? The Minister was correct when she said that it This motion will put an onus on offenders had not been legislated yet and she was as well. It will not deter some from trying to correct when she said that it was a enter these vulnerable workplaces, but it will recommendation from a working party. But she deter others. It will also make it quite clear that was a little ill informed when she said that the the community views with undiluted revulsion Blair Government had yet to determine its any attempt by these people to work in a position. In fact, on 29 July Britain's Home children's environment. It makes it quite clear Secretary, Jack Straw, announced in relation that we are prepared to make it a criminal to the proposals— offence, that we are prepared to take that "The Government accepts these person out of the community and put them recommendations and intends to bring behind bars for up to five years such is the forward legislation in due course to importance we place on the welfare of implement them". children. 24 Nov 1999 Persons Convicted of Offences Against Children 5311

Tonight's motion is not a cure-all solution, employers to adequately screen their staff. but it is another tool which we can use in our That is why in this Parliament on 11 November fight against crime against children. It is not this year the Minister for Families, Youth and surprising, therefore, that the Queensland Community Care gave an assurance that she Crime Commission itself has supported the was willing to consider proposed changes to coalition's stance in relation to this issue. It is the Children's Commission legislation in regrettable that, when I first raised this relation to employment screening and was issue—and I believe it was a positive willing to address the issues set out in this concept—the Attorney-General was a little motion—namely, the question of whether it hasty and accused me of pushing a cure-all should be an offence for persons in certain solution from the sanctuary of Opposition. categories to apply for employment in child However, I have been most heartened by the related areas. discussions I have had with the Attorney- It is relevant to note that throughout the General this afternoon. common law world the creation of criminal One month after I suggested a model offences in this area is virtually unprecedented. along the lines of that being introduced by the It is true that the Blair Government in the Blair Government, it was the turn of the United Kingdom has looked at the prospect of Queensland Crime Commissioner, Tim so doing. What it has done to date has been Carmody, to endorse this particular approach. to introduce and pass the Protection of On 1 October he called on the State Children Act 1999. That arose from the Government to adopt a similar model to that of recommendations of a working group, in the Blair Government. In conclusion, this is a particular involving the creation of a one-stop great motion and it is a motion which should shop to enable agencies to identify unsuitable be supported by all members of the persons by using the Police Criminal Records Parliament. Bureau as a central access point for checking Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga—ALP) the records of people working with children. (Attorney-General and Minister for Justice and The further proposal of creating a criminal Minister for The Arts) (6.10 p.m.): I am pleased offence relating to attempting to or actually to second the motion moved by the member working with children while banned remains for Warwick in the spirit of bipartisanship. The unimplemented in legislation. In New South community expects members of Parliament to Wales, however, the Child Protection work together where possible to tackle the big (Prohibited Employment) Act 1998 has been issues of our day. The Beattie Labor passed but as yet remains unproclaimed. It is Government stands ready, willing and able to expected to be proclaimed about the middle of adopt a cooperative, bipartisan approach on 2000 to coincide with the anticipated the great issues of the day where that is commencement date of a Statewide screening reasonably possible. Our action today is process for all people involved with children evidence of that commitment. People are sick being developed under the Commission for and tired of unnecessary acrimony and point Children and Young People Act 1998. It is scoring. They expect higher standards from important that this be approached with care, the Parliament. We are determined to work for the creation of a criminal offence must be with all people of goodwill to tackle the big done with precision and with the goal in mind social issues of our day. of protecting children. Broad phrases such as I am pleased that the honourable "environment involving children" contemplated member for Warwick has not proceeded with in the original motion clearly need to be given the motion of which he gave notice this greater particularity if justice is to be done and morning, for it is incumbent upon the the objects of protecting children are to be Parliament to proceed with care whenever it properly assured. seeks to create a new criminal offence as This Government remains strongly contemplated in the motion. In particular, the committed to ensuring that children are criminal offence which was proposed to be properly protected and that unsuitable persons supported in that motion was, in some do not work in child related activities. The respects, ambiguous with regard to the scope protection of those children demands, of the offence and ambiguous in the extent of however, that this area be approached with its application. care and sensitivity in a thoughtful way, with What is important in this debate is that the benefit of consultation with the community. there be a holistic approach to the care and to That is the basis upon which the Honourable the protection of children. It is important that Minister for Families, Youth and Community measures be looked at such as the duty of Care will be approaching it. 5312 Persons Convicted of Offences Against Children 24 Nov 1999

Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly—LP) Some will say that they have served their (6.15 p.m.)—In rising to support this motion, I time. Unfortunately, when it comes to am pleased to see that it does have the paedophilia, child molesters and the whole support of the Labor Party, the Government in area of predators, history has shown that, for this place. It is a most important motion we are those who have been convicted of these types proposing. I am sure that both sides of the of offences who go through treatment, House—all members of this Parliament, in treatment in many cases simply does not work. fact—are of one view when it comes to child We are therefore faced with repeat offenders. predators, and that is what we are talking That is particularly important in the case of about in relation to this motion. I must agree sexual offences. Also, none of us wants with the previous speakers that this is one of people who have been physically violent the most important areas we can possibly give towards children dealing with children. The some attention to. motion before the Parliament this evening deals with a most important issue, and it is one It is quite clear that, to arrive with which will require the effort of both sides of the legislation that is going to be relatively free of House to produce the desired result. hiccups, we will certainly need the full resources of the Crown Law office, the policy I know that we all agree that children office of the Justice Department, where deserve to be treated in the best way possible particular expertise in this area resides, the by the Parliament of the day. We need to Parliamentary Counsel's Office and others, make every effort to ensure that the full because it is a tricky and difficult area in which resources of Government and the full to legislate. Sure, the United Kingdom is going resources of this Parliament are directed to that end. It is significant that the Queensland down this road. I am sure that officers in those Crime Commissioner is supportive of a move in departments in the employ of the Public this direction. I note comments from him, Service, the Government of this State, do particularly in relation to following the example have the expertise to produce legislation along these lines. We have seen it before, and I am of the United Kingdom Labour Government. I sure we are going to see it in this regard. think that is relevant. Therefore, I am very pleased to see that this After all, we must remember that the motion has the bipartisan support of this Queensland Crime Commission was set up Parliament. because of the frustration that members of this Parliament and the former Government felt in Legislation is not going to be achieved in relation to the work of the CJC in this area. It five minutes—I accept that—but it is good to simply was not good enough. The areas of see that we are linking it with the Children's paedophilia, organised crime and drugs were Commission and that there is going to be not getting the desired attention. I am sure additional work done in that area as we move that both sides of Parliament felt that these down this road. It is fair to say that, at the end three significant areas were not getting from of the day, it is the principle that is particularly the CJC the amount of detailed attention that important. Of course, we are talking about not they required. That is why the Queensland only paid employment but also unpaid Crime Commission was set up and that is why employment as well—that is, voluntary it has been given such extensive powers to organisations. When it comes to these deal with this matter and to make organisations and the employment of this type recommendations in this area. of person, I believe there does have to be Time expired. some onus on that individual applying for work in the first place. Hon. A. M. BLIGH (South Brisbane—ALP) (Minister for Families, Youth and Community Simply putting in a five-year maximum Care and Minister for Disability Services) penalty is not necessarily going to stop them (6.20 p.m.): Like other speakers in this debate, from applying for a position, because we know I am very pleased to see that the sentiments what child predators are like. But, expressed in this motion will enjoy bipartisan nevertheless, it will certainly make them think support tonight. The motion seeks to achieve twice in many cases before they make precisely the objects that I am seeking to application or seek by some devious method achieve through the powers being proposed in to get an opportunity to obtain a job in an area the new Children's Commissioner legislation. that works with children. I think it is important to The motion also confirms the undertaking that throw that onus back on those people who I gave on 11 November during debate on the have been convicted of this type of offence in Family Services Amendment Bill. I am very the past. happy to repeat that undertaking as part of 24 Nov 1999 Persons Convicted of Offences Against Children 5313 this debate here this evening. I have already very clear: our objective is to keep unsuitable put in place research, and a number of weeks people out of certain kinds of workplaces and ago I gave instructions to officers to investigate out of environments where children are the implementation of such a scheme in regularly present. Queensland and to begin to undertake The objective of this legislation is not to consultation in that area. impose new sentences on people who have As has already been outlined, this is a already been sentenced by the courts and relatively new area of law. On our who have served their sentences. Therefore, in investigations, there are only two jurisdictions my view the onus cannot ever be rested in any common law country in the world that entirely on the shoulders of offenders. Firstly, have either contemplated a move or have they are not trustworthy. I am not prepared to moved in this direction. As the shadow Minister leave this solely in the hands of people who outlined, the United Kingdom has have committed these kinds of offences. contemplated this and has agreed to support it In the past 12 months we have seen a in principle but has yet to bring any legislation revolution in the protection of children in to the Parliament that we might be able to use Queensland. We have seen the completion of as a precedent or draw upon for guidance. the Forde inquiry, the passage of new child The New South Wales Government has protection legislation, the passage of the passed legislation but is yet to proclaim it. I family services amendment legislation and the understand that it is still working through some most significant single funding increase to child of the implementation details. protection in the history of this department. The thing that members will notice about I am happy to assure the House that the both of these Governments—I was very revolution is set to continue with the Children's pleased to see the member for Warwick Commission legislation. This new legislation will acknowledge it—is that they are Labor increase the powers of the commission to Governments. The idea before us this evening investigate complaints, it will expand the is in fact not a new one. It is the idea and monitoring mandate of the commission and, of policy brainchild of two Labor Governments. I course, it will give it a new role in relation to am very pleased to see the member for employment screening. As I said, both the Warwick promoting with such vigour the policy Blair Government and the New South Wales of Labor Governments. If he seeks to continue Government incorporate in their employment to be the vessel through which Labor policy screening and workplace protection schemes a passes, we on this side of the House will only comprehensive interlocking system that applaud. imposes an obligation on employers to As is always the case with many good undertake screening. ideas, the devil is in the detail. When one is I trust that the coalition support for this seeking to protect children, a fine line always motion tonight signals an intent on its part to has to be walked to balance the protection of reverse its previous opposition to this aspect of children with the rights of our citizens and the need to afford citizens natural justice. The New the proposed powers for the Children's South Wales scheme has very extensive Commission. The obligation on employers in appeal rights available to people who are certain child-related employment areas to affected by the legislation. Appeals for existing undertake very vigorous and rigorous criminal employees affected by the legislation are history checking for both paid and unpaid available through the Industrial Relations employees and volunteers is already in place Commission. For prospective employees in New South Wales and has already been affected, appeals are available through the passed by the UK Parliament as part of this New South Wales Administrative Appeals very same system. Tribunal. Of course, Queensland does not It is my view that there is no point trying to have an Administrative Appeals Tribunal, and I shut the gate after the horse has bolted. As I suggest that we will have to look very carefully said, I do not believe that we can trust these at how we achieve a similar balance of natural sorts of offenders in these situations. We are justice. trying to put as many hurdles at the gate of Both the New South Wales and UK the workplace as we possibly can. I am very systems have in place an interlocking and happy to take on board these policies from comprehensive system of employment other Labor Governments and I am very screening. In many respects they are quite happy to see the Opposition supporting them. different from our existing employment As I said, I hope the Opposition supports the screening. As we go down this path, I think comprehensive plan that we bring forward. that we have to remember our objective. It is Time expired. 5314 Persons Convicted of Offences Against Children 24 Nov 1999

Mr SANTORO (Clayfield—LP) (6.25 p.m.): In terms of the general approach to sex In speaking in favour of this motion moved by offenders and treatment programs, it is my colleague the member for Warwick and certainly the case that any community can do seconded by the Attorney-General, I find more to curb repeat offences. In this context I myself in the unusual and pleasing position of take the opportunity of tonight's debate to being able to praise and perhaps even support urge the Government to add one further policy the Labor Party. to what the Attorney-General only a few We all know that child abuse is a dreadful minutes ago defined as a holistic approach to problem. We all know that it is a problem which the problem of child abuse. longstanding and ideologically driven policy, I ask the Government to reconsider its widespread in the western democracy, of recent rejection of a scheme proposed by the downgrading the family and retreating from Advocates for Survivors of Child Abuse, that is, responsible positions on discipline has helped the survivor disclosure scheme. This scheme, immeasurably to make worse. And we all proposed to the Police Minister, the member know, as demonstrated by the remedial action for Waterford, by the people who in this State being debated tonight, that sensible change is began the fine concept of White Balloon Day within their power. One such way is by acting to break the silence on child abuse, would cost on this motion being debated here tonight, the community less than $100,000 for a pilot that is, act firmly to limit to the absolute program. The Minister's refusal to see the light minimum the potential for child abusers, on this issue is surprising. The round table that sexual or otherwise, to find fresh victims. gave the concept the green light included Dreadful situations demand draconian representations from the Crime Commission, solutions or, at least, solutions that some the Criminal Justice Commission, Queensland people might view as draconian. To make it a Police Crime Operations and SCAN, Criminal criminal offence punishable by a maximum of Intelligence, the public prosecution service, the five years' imprisonment for anyone with a Attorney-General's department and the conviction relating to a physical or sexual Advocates for Survivors of Child Abuse. offence against a child, or anyone with a court- As ASCA says, there is wide ordered prohibition in this regard, to seek or acknowledgment that only a very small accept a paid or unpaid position in an percentage of offenders will ever come to the environment involving children is a tough attention of police. The survivor disclosure move. But, as always in matters of public scheme would enable police to increase policy, when considering the issues of intelligence databases and therefore provide penalties applied to former offenders it is vital the information for more thorough checks as that we remember one central fact: without now mandated by the new family services there having been a prior offence, there would legislation. be no sanction. In other words, in this instance The community demands better and former offenders have ruled themselves out of better service delivery of all Governments, and contention where opportunities exist for work or rightly so. The whole business of Government contact with children. is about delivery. So I urge the Police Minister Tonight we are all contributing in a to reconsider and deliver on a small step positive way to active measures that will towards— reduce the horrific cost to society and the Mr Barton: I have no capacity to give community of child abuse. The cost is not only grants, and you know that. I love your spirit of a moral cost—and that is very high bipartisanship, which is get in and throw muck. indeed—but also a monetary cost. Honourable Mr SANTORO: I am not throwing muck. I members might benefit from recalling some have not thrown muck in this contribution. All I stark figures recently given an airing in the have said is that there are people who have media. These reports, drawing on a new study come to Government through the Minister. in South Australia, indicate that every case of They have asked for $100,000. I have child abuse in Australia costs the national indicated what the costs are. There is no vitriol economy $160,000. To be precise, the or politics in this. I think it is a good idea. I was tangible economic cost—that is, the cost that going to speak about this some time in the can be calculated—is computed at $157,290, near future. I think it is very relevant. It is comprising jail costs of $137,400 and victim- another measure that I believe— related expenses of $19,800. That is a lot of money. It is a lot of money that more Mr Barton: You are a grub. prevention—through education, effective Mr SANTORO: The Minister can call me a deterrence and policing—would free up for grub, but he will stand condemned by that very productive use. partisan and political interjection. 24 Nov 1999 Persons Convicted of Offences Against Children 5315

Eventually somebody will do this. If it is that he believes that the punishment is not this Minister, it will be a coalition protection. I hope that he has another look at Government Minister. Despite that very vitriolic, it and has a rethink about protection, because political interjection, it is with pleasure that I join I would like to convince him that punishment of with other members in support of the motion itself is not protection for our children. moved by the member for Warwick and Mr Springborg: That is a fair point. I seconded by the Attorney-General. The believe that the threat of punishment could be Minister for Police particularly should take note a deterrent to those people, as you said, who of the contribution, because a lot of other would try to put themselves in that people in the community will. environment. So therefore, protecting our Mrs LAVARCH (Kurwongbah—ALP) children is the basis of the logic behind it. (6.31 p.m.): I am delighted to rise to support Mrs LAVARCH: Yes. And following on the amended motion moved by the shadow from that, would the member then agree with Attorney-General, the member for Warwick, me that the protection side is stopping them and seconded by the Attorney-General, the from gaining access to children in the first Honourable Matt Foley. The message that this place, or being in a position where they are sends to the electorate is a positive one. It is a able to be in the company of children? message of our commitment in this House, working together for the protection of children. Mr Springborg: That's true. I hope that this occasion is noted for the Mrs LAVARCH: There have been records as showing a spirit of cooperation that numerous reports into paedophilia. They have has been demonstrated thus far. given us insight into the minds or the cunning However, I have a confession to make. of paedophiles, but none of those reports has When I read the motion that was moved this given us constructive suggestions on where to morning by the member for Warwick, two go. I believe that we have come a long way things sprung to mind. Firstly, the motion as over the past year. The Child Protection Act originally worded, and which still forms part of contains provisions for criminal history checks the amended motion, dealt only with children. of carers or prospective carers. Last session, members debated the Family Services Act, But there is another section of our community which now contains provisions for criminal who are just as vulnerable as children, that is, checks of employees and prospective people with intellectual disabilities, and perhaps the scope should be expanded. I am employees of the Family Services Department. confident that, when the Minister for Families, The Road Transport Reform Act contains Youth and Community Care reviews the provisions for history checks for lollipop ladies situation, she will broaden the scope to and men—road safety officers. encompass those people who have intellectual Time expired. disabilities. Mr HORAN (Toowoomba South—NPA) The other thought I had was that the (6.36 p.m.): It is a strange feeling to stand in motion, whilst dressed as seeking to protect this Chamber between 6 o'clock and 7 o'clock children, is only couched in terms of at night in an atmosphere of members working punishment of the convicted offender. I together. This is usually the hour of venom. I honestly believe that if our first and foremost am a bit worried. Seriously though, I believe concern is the protection of children, then our that what has brought about this cooperation intent should be about protecting children. is the way in which all members in this House That is why I believe that the amended motion take extremely sincerely and seriously the is to be applauded, because the main protection and safety of children. I join with objective of that motion is the need to prevent other members on this side of the House in unsuitable persons from gaining child-related applauding the Government for supporting this employment. That must stay uppermost in our particular motion. minds as legislators. Second to that is the The Minister for Families, Youth and furthering of the punishment of those Community Care made a comment about the convicted, which does not of itself protect our fact that this was Labor Party policy, but we children. Whilst that is an important matter, it is had to push them towards it. I hope that this a secondary matter. feeling of cooperation continues into the night I am willing to give the member for when our private member's Bill regarding Warwick the benefit of the doubt but, from Anzac Day, which is so sensible and listening to his contribution tonight, it seems to pragmatic, comes before this House. me that it is still very much slanted towards The real issue here is about the absolute punishment and not protection. It may well be protection of children. The Minister for 5316 Persons Convicted of Offences Against Children 24 Nov 1999

Families, Youth and Community Care spoke convicted of that particular offence, that about the particular Bill that she is preparing, person should not be allowed in any shape or that is, the Children's Commission legislation. form anywhere near our kids. No doubt the preparation of that Bill is going to Another issue is the recidivism rate of be fairly difficult, because there are some those involved in paedophilia, which is well areas in which it is probably difficult to draw the over 60%. This principle is a good principle. If it line. Many people are involved in straight-out can assist the Police Service to reduce the employment with children; that is quite clear- number of these dreadful investigations that cut. Many people work with children in full-time they have to go through—and the Police or part-time employment. But then we move Minister, who is present, would probably agree into the sector of volunteers—people who work with me that they are some of the worst with children and who help in various areas. investigations that police have to undertake, No doubt all members have been particularly those investigations that involve the involved with footy clubs, netball clubs, Juvenile Aid Bureau—then we have certainly Brownies, Girl Guides and other organisations. achieved something. There are times when we could feel a bit I support fully this principle. I agree with insulted by some of the things that have been the way in which we are going about it tonight, suggested. But if we put them aside and think because it will need a lot of careful that this is really about the kids first and development. However, we must adhere 100% foremost, then I believe that everyone who to the principle, and the principle is has the interests of children at heart would be straightforward and simple: those who have prepared to accept quite reasonable committed the heinous crime of sexual or arrangements. physical abuse of children should not be I reflect on the Mary Valley Tigers Junior allowed back working, or caring, or coaching, Rugby League Club, which I started in the or assisting kids. seventies. We had under-9, under-11, under- Time expired. 13 and under-15 teams. We took them into Ms STRUTHERS (Archerfield—ALP) Gympie every Sunday for a game of footy and (6.41 p.m.): As other members have stated trained them at Kandanga or Imbil on firmly here tonight, children must be protected Saturdays. We were just local farmers. I do not from harm in their home environment, on the know how we would have ever coped with all streets and in the care of others. The State the business of legislation and signing off on has a particular statutory responsibility to this and that. But when I think about it, we only protect children in its care from harm. Ministers did it for the kids' sake. At the end of the day, I in this Government have taken swift and believe that if something like this had been in decisive action to provide greater protection to force, all of us would have been prepared to children. The Forde inquiry and the Child sign off on some sort of a proviso so that the Protection Bill are all recent examples and parents of the kids in other teams and we evidence of our commitment to this ourselves would have felt that the kids were responsibility. safe. I take offence at the comments made by As to the proposals that the Minister for the member for Clayfield earlier in this debate Families, Youth and Community Care has about the Police Minister's lack of support for been putting forward—some of the the paedophile database proposal put forward suggestions for legislation that she is by Hettie Johnston's group. As is his style, the developing and working on—I mentioned member for Clayfield was slinging mud in what Guides and Brownies. What about the fathers is a bipartisan approach here tonight. I want to who put up the tents, dig the pits, put in the place on the record that the Police Minister is barbecues and all that sort of thing? Many very supportive of the proposal put forward by people are involved in those organisations in that organisation and is very keen to continue one form or another. Whatever legislation is discussions about it. developed, it will have to abide by the principle of protecting the children, but it is also going to I also want to say that, as child predators are not always likely to freely disclose their past have to be quite sensible and pragmatic. behaviour, the onus is on the Government and As I said, I think we can all see other agencies to carefully screen applicants immediately very clear-cut areas where this for jobs that involve the responsibility of would apply and it is quite sensible. I think all children. Preventing harm is much more of us would be 100% behind the principle that, effective than punishing after harm has if someone has committed a sexual or physical occurred. I was very relieved that the Minister offence against a child and has been for Families, Youth and Community Care 24 Nov 1999 Persons Convicted of Offences Against Children 5317 acknowledged the need to more effectively can be watching over children every minute of screen applicants for jobs in her department the day. However, our Government is firm in its and brought about changes earlier this year. resolve to put the right preventive and That is the key to protecting children: the regulatory mechanisms in place as a matter of effective screening of applicants for jobs. priority. The proposal by the member for Warwick I again reiterate that the focus must be on has merit. However, as the Minister said prevention before the harm occurs. There is no earlier, it focuses on issues after the horse has point in having all this heavy action after the bolted. We need to prevent and protect—and problems have arisen. We have to make sure they are the key words in this debate: prevent that we have the right process in place to and protect—so that the need for punishment prevent harm from occurring. does not arise. In the member's proposal, it is Mr QUINN (Merrimac—LP) (Deputy likely that a child will be harmed in order for the Leader of the Liberal Party) (6.45 p.m.): I am failure of an offender to have disclosed their delighted to participate in the debate on this previous criminal behaviour to come to the motion tonight. I congratulate both the shadow fore. That is a critical issue: it is likely that harm Attorney-General and the Attorney-General on will arise in this proposal before action is taken. their bipartisan approach to this important We are focusing on preventing this from issue. It is important to realise that tonight we occurring. are trying to build on existing legislation and to I accept the good intentions of the add additional protections to the processes member for Warwick, but we cannot rush into that involve our children. solutions to this problem. His proposals are Those members who said that there are very worthy of investigation, but many issues obligations on employers are correct. I point need to be canvassed. For instance, I have the following questions in my mind: what would out that over the past couple of years be the case if two 15 year old youths received legislation has been introduced into this a conviction for carnal knowledge five years Chamber that has improved the reporting and ago but have otherwise been law-abiding, detection mechanisms for those undesirable capable, good citizens? Would they be risking people whom we do not wish to have around a jail term if they neglected to disclose or our children. In about 1996 or 1997, those possibly inadvertently neglected to disclose members who were here would remember that that earlier conviction when applying for a job pieces of legislation were introduced that in a child-related environment in the future? concerned changes to the Board of Teacher Registration. In that legislation, significant Would the young blokes who flashed their amendments were made that really gave the crown jewels in a drunken state at the cricket board additional and quite strong powers to and who received a conviction be liable for a both detect and strike from the register those jail term if they neglected to disclose their undesirable teachers who transgressed on a convictions in applying for work as teachers in number of issues. another child-related area later in their lives? These types of definition and coverage The first amendment related to where issues require careful scrutiny. What areas of teachers were evading their name being struck work are contained in the definition of child- off the register by simply resigning from the related employment or environment involving board and walking away. That prevented the children? Hundreds of occupations could be board from launching any investigations into deemed child related or in an environment their behaviour. Through that amendment involving children. Where do we draw the line? legislation, teachers can no longer do that. We are impinging on people's civil liberties in The second amendment was more important. these areas of disclosure. We need tight At that time, the Wood royal commission in definitions so that law-abiding citizens are not New South Wales was investigating a whole unnecessarily exposed to public scrutiny and range of criminal activity. The Department of stigma. Education in New South Wales was enmeshed The spirit of bipartisanship evidenced here in that investigation. It was found that a range tonight is extremely positive. It is the kind of of undesirables in that profession were in bipartisanship, instead of political point scoring, schools in New South Wales. Acting on that that the public desperately want more of. sort of information, it was agreed nationally However, I am cautious about creating a that we ought to do something. serious criminal offence attracting a significant I am pleased to say that Queensland, penalty without all issues being canvassed through changes to the BTR legislation in carefully. This Government is committed to 1997, was the first State to put in place really protecting children from predators. None of us rigorous processes that were designed to 5318 Persons Convicted of Offences Against Children 24 Nov 1999 detect and weed out those undesirables from argued about the need for better child our teaching work force both in State and non- protection legislation. It never came. We State schools. It had the support of all the argued about the fact that something like employer organisations. As I said, it was really seven out of 10 young people who ended up groundbreaking legislation. It required in institutions were abused in those institutions. employing authorities to report to the board Nothing happened. We argued about the any teacher dismissed for serious conduct. It need for more resources to make sure that we also ensured that prosecuting authorities could meet our statutory obligations to protect advised the BTR automatically if a teacher was children. It never happened. I remember very committed for trial or convicted of an indictable well a report to the Parliament in which the offence. Under those changes, the BTR was director-general of the Department of then required to seek, through the Police Children's Services stated that he could not Services, the criminal history records of all meet his statutory obligation to protect applicants for registration. The existing children. He was sacked. Let us not beat penalties were increased significantly for those about the bush. Let us not talk about how teachers or applicants who failed to disclose good we have been and what we have done. any of those convictions. Let us not pat each on the back in relation to I believe that that really sent a very strong this issue. message to the community that this The Beattie Labor Government and Parliament was serious about putting in place Minister Bligh should be commended. The additional legislative measures to protect our Forde inquiry highlighted child abuse in children. Those two pieces of legislation institutions. The Child Protection Act affords enjoyed the support of the whole House. I am excellent protection measures, as do the quite sure that, as a result of this motion amendments to the Family Services Act. More tonight, when further legislation comes to the resources are being made available, although House, that prospective legislation will also they are still not adequate. enjoy the support of the whole House. Tonight we are debating whether the Over the past couple of years, Education proposals in the Child Protection Act and the Queensland has dramatically tightened up its Family Services Amendment Act are reporting mechanisms in terms of the child adequate. My first impression of the motion protection policy. It now has a very was that it was not about child protection, but comprehensive policy of which all teachers and punishment. I agree with the member for employees of the department are aware. Kurwongbah on that point, particularly when Principals are no longer given any discretion we look at the record of this Government in with regard to reporting suspected child abuse. introducing the Child Protection Bill and the Since early 1998, principals have had an Family Services Amendment Bill. I join others automatic obligation to do that. A whole range in welcoming the bipartisanship of the debate of training packages has been put in place in on this motion, which allows the matter to be schools to ensure that everyone within the referred to the Minister for Family Services for school environment understands what their further investigation, rather than, as the obligations are in terms of reporting suspected original motion stated, outlining what the child abuse. Parliament must do. This allows for a fair The proposals as outlined in the motion analysis. At all times we must test the will come back to this House in the form of new practicality of principles. We must always see if legislation. Many members have quite rightly they are workable and fair. voiced concerns about some of the There is nothing new in this motion. On implications of that legislation. 11 November in this House, Minister Bligh Time expired. gave an undertaking to look further at this Hon. J. FOURAS (Ashgrove—ALP) matter as part of the pending changes to the (6.50 p.m.): It is very easy for members of this Children's Commission. She stated that House to say that all children have the proposals for employment screening would be fundamental right to a safe, caring and forthcoming. I emphasise that we need to nurturing environment in which to grow up. consider natural justice. We must not make Unfortunately, providing that environment is hasty decisions. not as easy as talking about it. The record of Minister Bligh said something very State and Federal Governments of all parties instructive during the debate on 11 November. has been less than noteworthy in this area. She said that although it was the intention of When I was shadow Minister for Family the Government to keep people who are likely Services in 1977 and again in 1986, we to offend against children out of institutions 24 Nov 1999 Liquor Amendment Bill 5319 and away from children; it was not the attempted return to Townsville, it encountered Government's intention to repunish people low cloud and its pilots became disoriented. who had already served their sentences. As The pilots of the plane, who thought they were the shadow Minister for Education said, it is getting close to Magnetic Island, were in fact obvious that, following the passage of very close to Hinchinbrook Island, which has a legislation, criminal checks are undertaken and number of mountains around 1,000 metres in people's employment records do show their height, Mount Stralock being one of them. criminal histories. However, people must have Unfortunately, during its attempted flight to the right to move on. They must have the right Townsville the Liberator bomber struck Mount to put their past behind them. Stralock and the 12 American servicemen on For two years I travelled around Australia board were killed. with the Burdekin inquiry into homeless As I said, this year the incident was children. I met many people who had commemorated in Ingham on Anzac Day. committed criminal acts but had then Some Americans attended the rehabilitated themselves and did the most commemoration, including the son of one of wonderful work with children. As the member the officers on the plane, Captain Carl Silber. A for Archerfield said, take a person who number of people who climbed Mount Stralock committed carnal knowledge when they were brought back pieces from the wreckage of the young—it might have been 20 or 30 years Texas Terror, including Captain Carl Silber's ago—and has since put that behind them. dog tags. I wish to read an excerpt from an Perhaps they should not be prohibited from article in the Herbert River Express which submitting an application to the department. described the moment for Carl Silber Jnr. It Certainly I have some concerns about such an states— application then becoming a crime punishable "Mr Silber said he could barely read by five years' imprisonment. There may be the aluminium scraps for a minute alternative responses to this proposal and I because of the tears in his eyes. ask Minister Bligh to look at them. 'I was speechless ... One alternative would be to allow the Tears came to my eyes and I could sentencing court a discretion to make an order not even read them.' "— against a specific person prohibiting them from seeking child-related employment. I could not that is, the tags— argue against that if it was the decision of the " 'I feel I am taking my father home with court. Unless the person obtained the leave of me.' " the court to seek such employment in the That was a significant moment. The Americans interim period, they would be committing an offence if they did so because they would be recognise that a lot went on in the wars in well and truly aware that they were prohibited which they were involved. Brigadier General from doing so. We should be very careful to Lawrence Stevenson, of the 5th Air Force, ensure that natural justice is maintained, so Japan, and a number of his attaches and that things will work— American servicemen attended the commemoration in recognition of the major Time expired. part played by American servicemen in the Motion agreed to. Second World War. Sitting suspended from 6.56 p.m. to It was unfortunate that the plane ran out 8.30 p.m. of fuel and crashed into Mount Stralock. However, given the navigational instruments available in those days, the situation could LIQUOR AMENDMENT BILL probably not have been avoided. We probably Second Reading would not see that sort of thing happening nowadays. As I said, an impressive service Resumed from 10 November (see was held at the Ingham cenotaph. p. 4907). There had been some problems in the Mr ROWELL (Hinchinbrook—NPA) park area at Ingham; the night before the (8.30 p.m.), continuing: On Anzac Day in ceremony the police had to clear people from Ingham a commemoration was held for a very the park to make sure that there would be no significant event that occurred in 1942. During disruption of the service the next day. After the the Second World War, an American Liberator dawn service at Ingham, the RSL always holds bomber flying north towards Iron Range a breakfast, which is very well patronised. experienced mechanical problems and its There is a march to the cenotaph in which a lot pilots decided to return to Townsville. During its of schoolchildren participate. Traditionally, after 5320 Liquor Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 attending the service at the cenotaph buildings and that sort of thing. They had to be everyone goes back to the Ingham RSL, which cleared out to ensure that the Anzac Day is a great facility. The diggers have their nip of service was not interrupted. rum, get together and exchange their We are a much younger country than experiences during the war years. America, and as a result we have not reached A number of other ceremonies are held the point at which history means a lot to us. It throughout the electorate. Tully's Anzac Day is gathering momentum—there is little service, which is usually held at 10 o'clock, is question about that—and we are seeing a very important to the people of Tully. One much larger contingent of people involved in problem for me, given the size of my Anzac Day marches and certainly Anzac Day electorate, is that it takes quite some time to commemoration services, which I believe are get from one area to another. Tully is some 96 so critical as far as the recognition of people kilometres up the road from Ingham and it who fought very bravely for our country is takes an hour to drive between the two. I concerned. As I have indicated, a lot of them usually try to attend the dawn service at did not return. Because the older generation Ingham and then go to the Anzac Day service lived through periods of war, particularly the at Tully at 10 o'clock. Normally, afterwards I go Second World War and, of course, to the RSL, which serves an excellent lunch subsequent conflicts such as Vietnam, Anzac and invites guest speakers. The people of Day means quite a lot to them. Tully are fully cognisant of what the war really meant. I remember Tip Byrne, one of the We are fortunate that, during the past 25 former mayors of the Cardwell Shire, years or so, we have not experienced any describing how when a bomber would go great threats to our country and, as a result, I overhead he would feel very concerned about think some of the significance of Anzac Day whose it was, where it was going and what its was being lost. We are now seeing people ultimate fate would be. A lot of activity who are very much aware of a tradition that is occurred in that area during the Second World so important to us and are aware of events War, particularly during the Battle of the Coral that over a period have ensured—and people Sea. It is little wonder that at Cardwell so much have gone away to many countries—that effort is put into commemorating the Battle of Australia stays free. I think it is very heartening the Coral Sea. The Cardwell RSL is also an to see that, while for some people the excellent facility. It holds its dawn service a little memories about what happened in the war are after Tully's, and I make every attempt to not very strong—especially for the younger attend it also. Very often, during the luncheon generation, of course—there is a strong at Tully an address is given by people from the element out there who are recognising what battle school, perhaps naval officers or history is all about. That was really brought personnel from the other armed services. home to me when I witnessed the support that was given by those Americans who attended Innisfail is another area that puts on a those Anzac Day services, including the great commemoration for Anzac Day. Its dawn brigadier general, and the recognition that the service is held on the Fitzgerald Esplanade. Americans are prepared to give to those There is a cenotaph out the front of the RSL, people who were involved in the Second World which is also an excellent facility. It serves War—the level of recognition that they great food and offers a good bar. In addition, deserved. people have the opportunity to play the pokies. Right throughout the electorate there is Time expired. a strong association with the RSL and its clubs Mr SANTORO (Clayfield—LP) (8.42 p.m.): experience high patronage on Anzac Day. The Bill that we are now debating, which was I think it would be a pity if there is going to introduced by my friend the honourable be a penalty or a concern about diggers member for Toowoomba North on 23 March, is having their traditional nip of rum, which really very small. It seeks to amend only section 9 of binds so many of them together. That is really the Liquor Act 1992. It simply provides that all a catalyst, one might say, for the camaraderie liquor licences cease operating as at midnight that goes on during Anzac Day right on the day prior to Anzac Day and commence throughout my electorate, as I am sure it does from 1 p.m. on Anzac Day. The Bill does not throughout many electorates in Queensland. require that licensed premises close at Yes, there are some problems associated with midnight and that patrons have to leave—just people who could cause disturbances. As I that the sale of liquor is to cease from the have said earlier, the park in Ingham had to be commencement of Anzac Day. Nevertheless, cleared. A group of people had taken over an the Bill does allow for the sale of liquor in area where there are some nice covered specified circumstances on Anzac Day from 24 Nov 1999 Liquor Amendment Bill 5321

6 a.m. to 1 p.m. in special circumstances among the very best in this nation. It is approved by the chief executive and between certainly not my intention to change them 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. when it is served on simply because some yobbo happened to premises ordinarily set aside for dining and a disturb a dawn service somewhere in meal is prepared. Queensland and the former Premier That really sums up the Bill. It is very happened to be offended by it." short; it should be non-controversial, and it is I have to say that I find those remarks just that. Before turning to the contributions on offensive, irresponsible and an abdication of this Bill, I would like to quote some comments responsibility. This is the same Minister who in made by the member for Bundamba, the 1992 held himself and his Labor Government Minister, when he introduced the Liquor Bill in up as a paragon of virtue for winding back April 1992. When introducing the Bill, he Anzac Day trading hours. This is the same said— man who was answering dorothy dixers and "Restricted trading hours and trying to claim political points for taking the conditions will apply on Christmas Day, brave stand of making it harder for Good Friday and Anzac Day. May I take irresponsible drunken louts to disturb the this opportunity to stress to the Returned sanctity of what he described as "a very Services League that this Government solemn day". has not made and never intended at any I have carefully read the contributions time to make any changes which may be made by various members on this Bill when it seen as denigrating the sanctity of Anzac was debated on 27 October. It is clear that Day." there is total unanimity of purpose in our On 17 April 1992 in answer to a question collective acceptance of the special without notice, the Minister also said— importance of Anzac Day. Many members made their own special contributions. The "Changes to Anzac Day trading laws member for Burleigh read into Hansard a very will make it harder to disturb the sanctity touching contribution by a schoolgirl written in of what is, for many Australians, a very June 1916 on the importance of Anzac Day . solemn day." Anyone who heard that contribution could not The Minister was making those comments in help but be moved. The member for the context of ensuring that nightclub and Rockhampton made mention of his father and hotel trading would not be allowed beyond his service during the Second World War. I did 3 a.m. on Anzac Day itself. The Minister was to not agree with his view on the Bill, but I be congratulated because he wound back respected his contribution. The member for nightclub trading from 5 a.m. to 3 a.m. Lockyer also read into Hansard a very heartfelt Although, from memory, I do not think I letter written by an Anzac veteran to his congratulate him then, I certainly congratulate sweetheart. When I went back and read the him tonight retrospectively. contributions made during the debate, it was Since that time, as honourable members obvious that there is shared acceptance in this would know, there have been disruptions to House of the special nature of Anzac Day. It is, dawn services at both Surfers Paradise and to paraphrase that famous play, The One Day Gladstone. The Surfers Paradise incident was in the Year. It has a quasi-religious significance well reported in 1998, and I refer anybody for many, many Australians. interested to the speech of the honourable Then I turned to the contribution made by member for Gladstone of 11 March on Anzac the Minister. It was, in my view, a shallow Day trading hours for a description of what partisan effort. He quoted selectively from an occurred in her electorate. This Bill has been inspector's note of the alleged sequence of introduced because the Government in events of the Anzac Day dawn service at general and the Minister in particular have Surfers Paradise when a drunken lout refused to listen to the community and take interrupted proceedings. He tried to claim that the appropriate action. the Opposition was trying to make cheap In October last year the Minister said— political capital and was hypocritical. Again and "I am not going to be part of any again he said there were no problems and if move to reduce trading hours on the any arose he would act. He said that we evenings of Anzac Day, Good Friday or already had the most restrictive liquor trading Christmas Eve. The simple reality is that, if laws in Australia and that elsewhere there were we did that, we would become the no problems. laughing-stock of this country ... Our liquor I do not intend during this debate to licensing laws are now recognised as quote from any writings on the importance of 5322 Liquor Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999

Anzac Day. Others have already done so very before Anzac Day. It is sensible and it will eloquently and probably more eloquently than prevent problems from arising. Perhaps a new I could tonight. To me, this Bill is just a matter nightclub proprietor may not make as much of commonsense, prudence and sound policy. money as they otherwise would on that In 1992 liquor trading was wound back by this evening, but if that is the only downside then it very Minister on Anzac Day from 5 a.m. to is a very small price to pay for ensuring that 3 a.m. For that he deserves a vote of the sanctity of dawn services is maintained. thanks—our vote of thanks. Since then we The Minister has said that we would be the have seen a number of incidents in which laughing-stock of Australia if we stopped liquor drunken individuals have disturbed dawn sales at midnight. I think that that is a services. ridiculous comment. Are we the laughing-stock A Bill has been put forward to have liquor of Australia for stopping liquor sales at 3 a.m. sales to cease at midnight. We are not as a result of what I thought was a good and suggesting that the nightclubs close their wise decision by the Government? In fact, who doors. We are simply saying that the sale of would really care? We would not lose one intoxicating liquor should end at such a time tourist dollar. In fact, our reputation would be that people who are under the influence and enhanced if we were to prevent drunken louts could cause a disturbance are out of the way disturbing Anzac Day services. before people turn up for dawn services. Is I strongly support this Bill. I support it for that too much to ask? There is no other time in all the commonsense reasons that most the year when so many Australians, especially Queenslanders see within it. I do hope that the the very young and the very old, get out of Minister, between now and when we vote on it bed and go to public places at dawn. When later tonight or at some time in the future, can they go to a dawn service, it is that: it is a see the sense of what we are trying to do and service; it has religious significance; it has allow the passage of this Bill through the emotional resonance; it encapsulates the soul Chamber. If he does so, he will earn a lot of of this nation. recognition from not just ourselves but the Each one of us who have attended dawn broader public of Queensland. services could not be other than touched by Mr STEPHAN (Gympie—NPA) the effect that it has on all those present. I do (8.51 p.m.): It gives me a great deal of not intend again during this debate in this pleasure to join the debate on the Liquor place to sum up the feelings, the emotions Amendment Bill. Those people we honour on and everything else that goes with it. Each and Anzac Day paid the supreme sacrifice. There is every one who attends would know what I no doubt in my mind that the community has a mean. To say, as the Minister has, that we are very high regard for what they did and the trying to make cheap political capital by conditions under which they did it, and we introducing legislation to prevent nightclubs certainly remember them for it. By attending remaining open for their patrons and selling ceremonies on Anzac Day, we show that grog until 3 o'clock on Anzac morning is, I Australia remembers. It is also very would respectfully suggest, to miss the point. encouraging to observe the participation of There have been incidents when obviously younger people in various services around the intoxicated people have caused problems countryside on Anzac Day. during dawn services. We need to take The younger generation speak very highly preventive action. The Minister has recognised indeed of the men and women who went that fact by pointing out that this year he before them and of those who gave the maximised the attendance of liquor licensing supreme sacrifice. They recognise the various inspectors and police cooperation throughout campaigns in the war to keep our country as the State. What happens when the political free as it is today. Anzac Day is certainly an heat dies down? Does this Minister wind back opportunity to remember those who fought his interest? Does a future Minister not even and those who paid the supreme sacrifice with develop an interest? Do we have to constantly their lives, many of whom were in the prime of rely on the fickle finger of political awareness to their life. Anzac Day in no way glorifies war or ensure that nightclubs are being watched, or conflict. Rather, it recognises the heroic do we move proactively and overcome the activities of those people for the benefit of problem in advance if we can? Indeed, as a future generations. Anzac Day is recognised result of the provisions of this Bill, if it is as one of the three special days in the passed, we could. calendar year, along with Good Friday and For the life of me I cannot see why any Christmas Day. We cannot push Anzac Day Government would seriously object to stopping aside and say, "It's just another day", and that liquor sales in nightclubs and pubs at midnight we will continue with our lives irrespective of it. 24 Nov 1999 Liquor Amendment Bill 5323

It is a day we are bound to remember. By them well. I join with members on this side of remembering, we show our younger the Chamber in supporting this legislation. generation that we care for those who went Mr KNUTH (Burdekin—CP) (8.59 p.m.): I before us. have listened to the contributions of members This legislation simply means that the sale on both sides of the House and I have heard of alcohol will cease at midnight before Anzac some emotional speeches. I agree that there Day. Surely, as others have said, that is not a would not be one person in this Chamber who very high price to pay. There is special has not lost a family member to war or who provision for the chief executive to approve the has not known of somebody who was lost in purchase of alcohol in particular cases—that is, war. War is a terrible tragedy that has befallen where alcohol is consumed on a site with a the human race. I am quite sure that every meal. There is nothing wrong with having country respects its fallen—those who gave up alcohol with a meal under those conditions; their lives for our future. We can show our that is not just a smart way to simply purchase gratitude by remembering them in ceremonies alcohol. The legislation is an appropriate and by reflecting on past hostilities, praying gesture to the memory of those who fought that they will never happen again. and died under very difficult circumstances. Some members of the Government say It is very encouraging to know that young that they have witnessed this early morning people do respect those men and women who revelling by some disrespectful and sometimes have gone before them. They respect them for mindless people. I believe those members to what they did. Even though the younger be honest. To be quite honest, I have not generation were not involved 40 or 50 years witnessed this problem. The reason for these ago, those men and women are people the disturbances is most probably the close younger generation can look up to. They are proximity of a nightclub to a dawn service. to be respected. In fact, we should be able to Here we must acknowledge that in some say, "We want to be like that." cases disturbances are occurring and, unfortunately, we must cater for the grievance The removal of the potential for problems of those in some parts of the State in which is an important role for this Parliament. Many this is occurring. young people who are involved with and who Because the dawn service is held only attend dawn services are very touched by once a year, surely this amendment will not them. They certainly remember what they see hurt the liquor industry that much. Has greed at those ceremonies. It is a great credit to become such an issue that we as a Parliament those young people, whether they be seven cannot lay aside half a night in respect for our years of age, eight years of age, nine years of lost diggers? Will society suffer from this age or in their teenage years. They do closure of half a night per year? I cannot see remember. They do want to take part in those how it will. How many lives will be influenced for ceremonies. They want to ensure that they the better by this closure of this small fraction hand down for future generations the of a night? Just how many drunken brawls will opportunity to be part of dawn services and be avoided? How many alcohol-related crimes the respect they show for their forebears. will not occur? How many parents will not need As I said, this legislation in no way glorifies to know that their son or daughter has been war. It recognises the heroic activities of many involved in an accident? This is all because we of those who were taken away from their closed a nightclub for just half a night, once a homes and their loved ones and ensures that year. The Government has the numbers to they are a part of future generations. This Bill defeat this Bill, and I know that I am probably is about cementing respect to our Anzacs and wasting my time. However, I appeal for to our Anzac tradition. Many Anzacs are commonsense to prevail. waiting for the Anzac Day Amendment Bill to I was quite interested in the speech of the be debated by the Parliament and put to the member for Tablelands. I think he covered it vote. It is great that we as a Parliament can all. I remember that the Minister for Tourism, give them that opportunity. It is great that we Sport and Racing raised an interesting point in are able to remember those people who relation to Custer's last stand. While I have got served under those conditions. the chance, I will fill the Minister in. We also cannot forget the national service Mr GIBBS: Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise personnel who have gone away from time to to a point of order. I appreciate it, but I do not time to serve in many other parts of the need the lesson in history. I am aware that his Commonwealth and other parts of the world. big mistake was using the Henry single-shot We salute them. We respect them and wish rifles. That was the problem. 5324 Liquor Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999

Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER (Dr Clark): Australia in the First World War we see the Order! There is no point of order. tremendous support that Australian diggers Mr KNUTH: I will fill the Minister in. After gave in the interests of fair play, goodness, the Civil War— honesty and opposition to totalitarianism. Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The That service to our great country is not member for Burdekin really should confine his political service. I can think of three members comments to the Bill. I ask him to make sure in my Labor Party branch—Bill Davidson, Harry his comments are relevant to the Bill we are Ballment and Stewie Simmons—who are debating. fantastic blokes, great Labor Party members and, more importantly, fantastic ex-servicemen Mr KNUTH: I think this is relevant. After from the Second World War. There are people the Civil War, the army was left with a huge such as this in every political party. I know that surplus of precision cap rifles, so they re- there are people such as them in the National chambered the rifles to a calibre .45/70—into a and Liberal Parties. I know that there are Martini action rifle. The army had only these people such as them in the One Nation single-shot rifles. Many of the young braves of Party— the Sioux nation were actually getting jobs on cattle properties and getting money in their Mr Knuth: And the Country Party. pockets. They were going out and buying Mr LUCAS: And the Country Party. There themselves Winchester lever action rifles and are also such people who do not have any Henry lever action repeating rifles. Not only particular political affiliation or observance. was General Custer outnumbered; he was What is more important—it is more important outgunned. He was outgunned by a superior to them—is how they banded together and military weapon of the time. I hope that defended the freedoms they fought so hard answers the Minister. for and many lost their lives to protect. We in Mr Hamill: I reckon you are a single bore this Parliament now have the ability to assert as well. those freedoms because of the sacrifices those people made. Mr KNUTH: I might be a single bore; all There have been some exceptional my rifles are single-bore rifles because this contributions to this debate, which has Parliament took those semiautomatics off me. proceeded over a number of evenings. I am Mr Gibbs: But they reckon in your not going to be political tonight, because I electorate that you are a big shot. think there were some excellent contributions Mr KNUTH: I am a good shot. I always hit made by members on both sides of the my target. I cannot see how a closure of half a House. I will single out two that I think were night per year is going to hurt the liquor very considered and well thought out industry. I think it will benefit so many families. contributions—that is, those of the member for We have an overalcoholised society as it is. Rockhampton, Mr Schwarten, and the What harm will this amendment do? member for Burleigh, Mrs Gamin. I thought they were excellent contributions to the Mr LUCAS (Lytton—ALP) (9.04 p.m.): debate. I am a bit sad that one or two people Before I speak to the Bill in particular, I will say in this Chamber have seen fit to play politics. a few words about the essential Australian Fortunately, most people have not. character. When I think of what makes Australians Australians—regardless of where I go to Anzac Day ceremonies each year. they were born, their station in life or whether I went long before I was elected. I went long they are male or female—I think of one of the before I became an adult. I take my family, great defining things that makes our country and I do it proudly. Why do I do that? It is not different from other countries; that is, the spirit because there is some law that says, "You of Anzac. Anzac Day services commemorate must go to Anzac Day ceremonies", and it is not only servicemen at Anzac Cove during the not because there is some practice that First World War—there were conflicts before stipulates that members of Parliament must go then and there have been conflicts since—but to Anzac Day ceremonies. As someone who also so many people who made great asserts the rights to live in this great sacrifices for our country in times of war. This democratic country—rights that were defended includes those who stayed at home and their and won with the blood, sweat and toil of families who supported those who went to war, many ex-servicemen and women over many and those who were too ill to fight but years—it is the very least I can do. supported in reserved occupations. This says a The reason I take my kids—and I am sure lot about our country. When we look at the it is the reason other people take their kids—is, losses that were suffered proportionately by again, not because I am told to and not 24 Nov 1999 Liquor Amendment Bill 5325 because the schools think it is a good idea, commitment in our armed services, regardless but because it is so important to inculcate our of whether it is the Navy, the Army or the Air children with those views. It is important to let Force. them understand the sacrifice that has been I want to put a proposition to members. made and to let them understand the horrors What is the difference between these two of war and the great contribution made by our dates: Anzac Day and the Queen's birthday? ex-servicemen, not only in that Anzac Gallipoli They are both legislated public holidays in this conflict but also before then, in the Boer War, country. But why do people think of Anzac Day and since then, in World War II, Korea, differently? It is not because of the law; it is Vietnam and, in more modern times, in the because of what it stands for. That is why I Gulf and in East Timor. I am sure that we all must respectfully disagree with my send our strongest support to our brave men parliamentary colleagues on the other side of and women in East Timor. Many of the the House. In every other State, except residents of East Timor lost their lives at the Western Australia, the law is different from hands of Japanese in the Second World War, what it is in Queensland. Those other States so it is great to see that we are in some way allow open trading on Anzac Day—which, of realising our responsibilities to that country. course, I do not support. As the member for Burdekin pointed out, We do not create respect for the sacrifice the spirit is still alive, not only in those ex- legislatively; we create it by remembering the servicemen and women but in their families fallen and the sacrifices that they made. Even and in our families and in the people who go in if the contributions of members tonight and increasing numbers to those Anzac Day over the past few occasions when this ceremonies—not for any legislated reason but legislation has been debated have done because it is the right thing to do and because nothing, and if we have to disagree on the it is part of being an Australian. When I attend issue at hand, at least it has reminded us all an Anzac Day ceremony, the thing that drives that, regardless of the political outlook of the this home to me more than anything else is diggers involved or of members here, it is great when I look around and see who is there. Most to be an Australian and to remember the of the diggers, especially from World War II, sacrifice that those people made. That is why I are elderly men in their seventies and eighties. am honoured to assert the freedom to make a But the schoolchildren who attend from a speech tonight in thanks to them. number of local schools are, on average, 12 or 13 years of age. We must remember that Mr HEGARTY (Redlands—NPA) those schoolchildren are far more (9.13 p.m.): This debate tonight is specifically representative of the people who made the about changes to the Liquor Act relating to supreme sacrifice than I am at 37, because restricted trading hours for licensed clubs on the people who gave their blood for this the eve of Anzac Day. Closing clubs a few country were young people. They were 18; hours earlier to ensure that there are no some of them were 17 and 16, and some of unwarranted interruptions to Anzac Day dawn them were 19 and 20. They gave the prime of services, that are conducted near such their lives. They did not go when they said, establishments, should be endorsed "Gee, I have had a good innings. I am 65 unanimously by members on both sides of the now. I am prepared to make the supreme House. sacrifice." They went when they were 16, 17 Ironically, the licensed clubs in this State and 18. And I believe that it makes their have no problem with the proposed trading sacrifice greater and all the more impressive hours amendment. In fact, nearly all, without when one considers what the fallen were like. exception, are very supportive of the returned I can understand how veterans think back servicemen and women in their respective on their service and how it makes them so communities. But more generally, this debate sad. For example, when we go to a funeral for is about recognising the contribution that many someone who was 85 or 90, we say, "They men and women have made in the defence had a good innings and it was great to know force of this country over the past 100 years them." But when we think that their mates and continue to make to this day. This debate were 18 or 16 when they got killed defending is more about ensuring that due honour and our liberties, we think, "What a sacrifice! How respect is afforded to past and present lucky we are that they were prepared to do servicemen and women on this one day that that." I believe that the Australian condition has become recognised as symbolic of the has remained the same. Many people—and coming of age of this nation. Timor is a classic example of it—are still Other members have acknowledged the prepared to make that great contribution and resurgent interest by the general public in 5326 Liquor Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999

Anzac Day celebrations, particularly the were more correctly called the Society of younger generation. I would not like to see this Righteous and Harmonious Fists, but the enthusiasm dissuaded by any incidents— nickname "Boxers" stuck, because of the isolated though they may be—that might callisthenics and other exercises that they project an image of insecurity in attending undertook, which they believed, if practised, Anzac Day dawn services. would make them impervious to bullets. Not The World War I exploits of the Anzacs officially recognised by the Chinese have become recognised as the hallmark for Government at the time, they were backed by successive Anzac Day celebrations that have the Dowager Empress of China—a situation ensued from the first Anzac Day in 1916, when not unlike recent local events, where a troops were still on the battlefields in Palestine Government does not want to be seen to be and France, yet the exploits of the Anzacs at involved but uses other groups within its society to act as agents on its behalf. Anzac Cove in 1915 were recognised by Anzac Day marches in the cities throughout A naval brigade—a contingent of Australia. I believe that Brisbane may have Australians destined for South Africa—was been the first of those capital cities to hold diverted to China and served as part of such a march. The 60,000 deaths and a Admiral Seymour's force to relieve the further 150,000 casualties that occurred during diplomatic legation in Peking who were under the exploits of Australian servicemen in the siege at the time. These and other actions Middle East and in Europe, out of the were fought by Australian servicemen over a Australian population at that time, which was period of a year or so. probably somewhere between four million and Going further back into Australian colonial five million people, makes us realise that we history—the first time that Australian volunteers did pay an horrific price for what we did in the saw action was during the Maori wars in the cause of freedom and in the defence of the 1840s. The first Maori war started in the Mother Country, as it was seen at that time, in 1840s, and it involved troops from New its war against Germany and the other powers. Zealand, of course, and the Australian I would like to recount to members of the colonies. The colonies' armed forces at the House—most of whom, I expect, would know time were comprised of militia units, this history—Australia's and, prior to its commanded by the British, who also had their becoming Australia, pre-Federation colonial own permanent forces garrisoned in Australia military history, which highlights some of the and in New Zealand.The threat of the Maori exploits of the settlers of this country, who nation of 56,000 people, mostly from the North would have regarded themselves as Island, was against a few thousand white Australians—although it was not an settlers. The Victorian Government sent its autonomous country prior to Federation in entire naval component, comprising the Steam 1901. Corvette Victoria. The Maori problem arose again in the 1860s. This time, a force of One hundred years ago last month, the 10,000 troops was raised to fight the Maoris. first troops from New South Wales were sent to Again, 2,500 soldiers from the Australian South Africa following the outbreak of the Boer colonies fought between 1863 and 1872. War. They were training in England at the time Incidentally, after the war a number of at Aldershot Barracks, but within three weeks servicemen settled there, taking advantage of of the outbreak of war they were in service in the land grants that were offered as a reward South Africa. Other Australian colonies sent for service. That became a common practice troops also, the first troops arriving in South as a way of recognising those Australians who Africa in December 1899, with the served in the militia right up until the latter part Queenslanders being the first to see action. of the 19th century. Again, at that time, Troops from the Australian colonies continued Australia's population was not large—less than to serve throughout the war until 1902, two million people. So our contribution to wars following the formation of the Commonwealth has always been significant compared to Defence Force, when the first contingent of Australia's population at the time. troops from the newly federated colonies In the 1880s, following the death of arrived and fought as a nation in the name of General Gordon at Khartoum, the first Sudan the Australian Commonwealth Horse. war occurred. Again, Australia responded to In 1900, during the height of the Boer Great Britain's request for military forces from War, another incident occurred in China, the colonies. Over 500 infantrymen and a euphemistically called the Boxer Rebellion, further 200 artillerymen from New South Wales named after a group of fanatical Chinese who were sent. They arrived towards the end of the were sworn to rid China of all foreigners. They campaign and saw only minor action. 24 Nov 1999 Liquor Amendment Bill 5327

However, a Field Battery of the Royal would not like to see any slur cast on that Australian Artillery, the oldest continually Remembrance Day by any act, small or large. serving unit in the Australian Army, carries the This issue relates to trading hours. I think battle honour for Suakin, one of the battles of that if the issue was put to the Australian that campaign. population at large, there would be From those early pre-Federation days, the unanimous agreement that they would forgo rest of Australia's military history is fairly well those couple of hours of extra trading for any known to most Australians—the exploits of the licensed establishment that they may frequent. Anzacs and their sons in the Second World To honour of all of those past servicemen and War. Between those wars, there was no actual women and also those present and future force deployed, but a number of servicemen servicemen and women who would use this served in India. After the Second World War, day as their special day to honour not only there was the Malayan conflict, the Korean their own contributions but also those of their conflict, the Borneo and Malay Peninsula mates should be paramount. conflicts, and the Vietnam War. Since then, I do not think that we can dismiss the Australia has participated in a number of matters contained in this Bill and attend to United Nations peacekeeping forces, which them in some other way, such as increasing brings me to the present, where at this very the presence of the Police Service at centres time our troops are holding up that Anzac where incidents may occur. I think that we tradition in East Timor. If I may, I will add my should do the right thing by the people of this voice to those who have commented on the country, by the servicemen and women who professionalism that those soldiers have gave their lives—many have lost their loved displayed, which has always been the hallmark ones, and to this day there are casualties— of the Australian Defence Force. They are and pay them due reverence from midnight on doing an exemplary job. 24 April of each year until midday of Anzac Although tonight we are debating whether Day and restrict liquor licensing. to restrict the liquor trading laws on Anzac Day I think that that is a very small token that eve, I think that whenever we talk about we as representatives of the Queensland anything to do with Australia's military history, public can offer to enshrine a very significant we should bear in mind that we are still a memory that most people have, if not of their young country. We still do not have the sense immediate families, of friends, relatives or of history that the United States, the United acquaintances who have served or are Kingdom and all of those European countries presently serving in the armed forces of this have had for hundreds and hundreds of years. country. That will ensure Anzac Day receives Yet in our very short history, I think that we the honour and respect that it has received in have acquitted ourselves magnificently. the past and, hopefully, will continue to Fortunately for all of Australia, that has always receive. In this way, the esteem in which been done beyond our shores. I sincerely Anzac Day is held will continue to grow among hope that that will always be the case for as the younger generation of Australians. For that long as there may be conflict threatening the reason, I ask all members to put these Australian population, to which the Australian technicalities aside, to vote in the spirit of this Defence Force has always readily reacted, Bill and to pass the regulations necessary to generally speaking with the utmost support restrict trading hours past midnight on 24 April from the Australian community at large. each year. Although we may differ over whether the Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly—LP) matters contained in this Bill are (9.27 p.m.): I commend the member for significant—whether the incident in which the Toowoomba North for bringing forward this denigration of an Anzac Day dawn service legislation. It is very difficult to understand the occurred was an isolated incident, or whether Government's position in relation to this such an occurrence might spread to other matter. I notice that, this year, a raft of facilities services, or whether such an incident may not around town that hold liquor licences will be occur again—I do not think that is the issue. I closed on New Year's Eve. However, when think the issue is the fact that, on that one one asks them to close for Anzac Day, that special day of the year, Australians seems to be a different matter. It is good recognise—and, fortunately, more Australians enough for those premises to close on New are recognising it, including the younger Year's Eve—a time that one would think they generation—that this is a very significant day would have wanted to be open. that commemorates when Australia acted as a This raises the question of the Minister's nation in the first major conflict of this century. I real position. No wonder this Bill is an 5328 Liquor Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 embarrassment to members of the That might be because additional police were Government. Members of the Labor Party get rostered on, which I understand is what up and try to give all sorts of excuses for the occurred. Nevertheless, I am sure that Minister, who seems to have some problem problems will occur in due course. It is only a with this Bill. I dare say that other members on matter of time before Anzac Day dawn that side do not have the same problem. I services are denigrated. It does little for any think that they have been pushed into this Government or Parliament when that sort of position. It is worth while noting that the thing occurs. One cannot ensure that that will Minister says that, if this Bill is passed and we not occur because of the all-night operations stopped liquor sales at midnight on Anzac Day of some licensed premises. I am sure that all eve, Queensland will become some sort of members would be aware that trading all night laughing-stock in Australia. means that many people roll out of licensed Just a few days ago in the Sunday Mail it premises at 4 o'clock or 5 o'clock in the was reported that a number of licensed outlets morning, and they want to throw their weight in the city will be closed—it is estimated to be around. That is when dawn services are some 80%—on New Year's Eve. I even disrupted, which leads to other problems. noticed that the Treasury Casino said that it I will not repeat all the points that was going to close at 10 o'clock on New Year's members have made about the sanctity of Eve because it was not profitable for them to Anzac Day. It makes Queensland somewhat remain open owing to the huge salaries that of a laughing-stock when such situations occur they will have to pay and the additional and the Government does not take action to security costs that they will have to incur in stop it. There is no reason to allow licensed relation to remaining open. This Bill is all premises to remain open in the wee hours of about the almighty dollar, the liquor sales that Anzac Day except, as I say, for the almighty such outlets might miss out on on the eve of dollar. It is good enough for the hotels to close Anzac Day if they have to close at 10 o'clock on New Year's Eve when it will cost them or midnight. However, when it comes to New money to remain open, but on Anzac Day, Year's Eve, when those outlets might face a when they might make a dollar, they have to huge increase in salaries and security costs, it remain open. That highlights the is no problem for them to close. Government's insincerity in this exercise. This A range of comments has been made on is the second or third time that we have this issue. A Sunday Mail straw poll of bars debated this issue and still the Minister will not around Queensland found that up to 80% of budge. I am sure that in the community city watering holes, including the Treasury generally there is overwhelming support for this Casino, intend to close before midnight. Many particular course of action, yet the Minister has city hoteliers have decided to take the night not been able to come up with reasons for off, citing inflated entertainment and security supporting it. costs of up to 10 times the normal. Added to The shadow Minister has outlined the that are fears of unruly behaviour and staffing benefits and the processes of his proposed problems because the hotels will have to pay amendment to section 9(3) of the Liquor Act, such huge amounts to get people to work. The relating to trading hours on the eve of Anzac Queensland Hotels Association has said that Day. If passed, the legislation would mean that uncertainty about pay rates may have licensed premises would close at midnight but influenced hotels. I am sure that it did, and could reopen at 1 p.m. on Anzac Day after the that is what we are talking about here. services have been completed. It is not as The Minister does not want to make this though those premises will be required to be decision. It has nothing to do with Queensland closed for 24 hours—far from it. They will be becoming the laughing-stock of Australia or closed only from midnight until 1 p.m., which is anything of the kind. This is all about liquor 13 hours, to allow dawn services and other sales, outlets, revenue and the pressures that Anzac Day services to occur. The Minister has are obviously being brought to bear on the not given any reasons why that should not Minister not to budge on this issue even occur. though many of the RSLs have indicated their We treat Christmas Day and Good Friday concerns to him. They are particularly as special days. In recent years, Anzac Day concerned about some of his comments in has also become a special day for Australians relation to this matter. It is quite clear that the to celebrate the nationhood of this country. It Minister does not want to reconsider the has certainly come to be seen as one of the decision because his pride is involved. country's sacred days, yet we cannot close the The Minister says that there were no liquor outlets because the Minister thinks that problems at last year's Anzac Day services. that might make the State a laughing-stock. 24 Nov 1999 Liquor Amendment Bill 5329

Hotels and other licensed premises have no the House have been expressed right from the problem with closing on New Year's Eve, which heart. I make it quite clear that the introduction is the very night when one would have of this legislation was no stunt, as has been expected those facilities to remain open. That suggested by some members opposite. It had highlights the fact that this issue comes back no politics or malice in it, and there was no to the almighty dollar and nothing else. secret agenda. This legislation was not merely The Minister has faced some problems in a gesture. I know that some members of the relation to this issue. He has received a Government would dearly love to support it, warning in relation to the Cairns RSL sub- but of course they have been ordered not to. branch. Sub-branches have received the On an issue such as this, that is real shame. warning that if they play tough with the Mr Borbidge: They should be given a Minister, he will play tough back. That is all conscience vote. very well, but I do not think that, at the end of Mr HEALY: Yes, I believe that they the day, it does much for the Minister or for should be given a conscience vote on this parliamentarians generally. That merely shows issue. In fact, I am quite surprised, because the people that the Minister is one of the elite had this legislation been carried with bipartisan and that the system is full of humbug. That support, it would have been a real winner for approach certainly does not win the argument. both sides of politics. The Minister has to try to win the argument, but it is not a winnable argument. The Minister At a time when the image of politicians cannot justify his stance, particularly when the and political parties is somewhat tarnished, this owners of licensed premises have said recently legislation would have given the general public that they will close on New Year's Eve, which is the notion that we are a fairly caring bunch. the very night when patrons would have Bipartisan support for this legislation would expected that they would remain open. It is have not only helped to ensure that an uneconomic for those premises to remain incident did not happen to anyone on their open because of high security and wage way to an Anzac Day dawn service; it would costs. have also sent a clear message to the community that 12 midnight was a pretty good I ask the Minister to reconsider his and reasonable time to cease the sale of position because, despite the speeches of a alcohol on the day before Anzac Day. number of Government members, it is quite clear to me that Government members do not The Minister would be well aware by now really want to oppose this Bill. They would of my family background in respect of liquor much rather vote with this side of the Chamber licensing. I know damned well that, if the grog in support of it. It is still not too late for the is turned off, the people go home. If they want Minister to change his mind. All he has to do is to party on, they usually do so by going to a swallow a little pride. It may be that some of private residence somewhere in the the people who hold licences will be unhappy suburbs—usually well away from where a dawn with the Minister, but at the end day it is the service is likely to take place, thus eliminating Minister who hands out licences so there is the risk of disruption. I know that no legislation little that they can do about that. I call on the would enable us to give an ironclad guarantee Minister to use his commonsense in relation to that an incident could not take place in the this matter and to support the Bill. future. Similarly, I know that with the Government not supporting this legislation, as Mr HEALY (Toowoomba North—NPA) it has indicated through several contributions (9.37 p.m.), in reply: I thank all members of from the other side of the House during this this Chamber for their contributions to this debate, there is no guarantee that an incident debate. The debate has been lengthy and, at could not take place in the future. However, times, very emotional. The member for this legislation might have gone some way Clayfield has already mentioned a couple of towards helping. It might have taken away the members from this side of the Chamber who window of opportunity that some lout may have made excellent contributions. I make have had to disrupt a dawn service in the mention of the member for Burleigh in future or to try to harass a group of diggers on particular, who made an excellent contribution their way to a dawn service. That is what this to the debate. I also make special mention of legislation is all about. the members for Gregory and Toowoomba In the Minister's contribution to the South and, indeed, the Leader of the Opposition. debate, he said that he had conferred with local authorities on this issue. I remind the I want to say from the start that the Minister that earlier this year the LGAQ State sentiments expressed by those on this side of conference overwhelming passed a motion 5330 Liquor Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 supporting this legislation. The notes must wear the consequences of their vote in accompanying the resolution, as they their electorate. That is politics. We all know appeared in the agenda paper and order of that. But I know one thing for sure: the only proceedings for the Local Government votes that will be lost in the electorates of Association conference in Toowoomba earlier members who vote in favour of this legislation this year, state— will probably be those of a handful of nightclub "A recent vote in State Parliament or cabaret owners. I am confident of that. I was 45-44 against bringing on the believe the Government has read this one very amendment bill that would restrict badly. The Government's lack of support for nightclubs to 12 midnight trading on the this legislation will come back to haunt it. eve of Anzac Day. The Speaker's vote There is no more sacred sound than that prevented discussion on this important heard in cities and towns right across this great issue which was supported by the nation just before the sun rises each 25 April. Association last year when raised by It usually starts with the distant sound of the Gladstone City Council at the Annual single beat of a snare drum. It is then followed Conference. by the squeak of shoes on bitumen and then It has become practice over the last the haunting sound of medals jingling. Many few years for intoxicated persons from honourable members have heard that sacred nightclubs to jeer and harass ex- sound and they know exactly what I am talking servicemen and women and their families, about. It is that very sacred sound that this during the Anzac Day Dawn Service legislation is trying to protect. Again, I thank all Parade in the main street of Gladstone. members on this side of the House who have Only a few police are on duty which contributed to this debate with passion and makes full control impossible. If this fervour. occurs in Gladstone, it would be occurring Question—That the Bill be now read a in other cities where 3.00am licences are second time—put; and the House divided— operating in the central business district. AYES, 40—Beanland, Black, Borbidge, Connor, Anzac Day is a solemn occasion and Cooper, E. Cunningham, Dalgleish, Davidson, Elliott, intoxicated persons at dawn will inevitably Feldman, Gamin, Grice, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, act in a disorderly and disrespectful Johnson, Knuth, Laming, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, manner during services and parades. The Mitchell, Nelson, Paff, Pratt, Prenzler, Quinn, Rowell, R.S.L., police and ordinary citizens are Santoro, Seeney, Sheldon, Simpson, Springborg, disgusted at this type of behaviour, which Stephan, Turner, Veivers, Watson, Wellington. Tellers: Baumann, Hegarty includes calling out and jeering. NOES, 39—Attwood, Barton, Beattie, Bligh, Boyle, It would not be too much to ask the Braddy, Bredhauer, Clark, J. Cunningham, D'Arcy, State Government to restrict licensed Edmond, Fenlon, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Hamill, premises to close for Anzac Day morning, Hayward, Lavarch, Lucas, Mackenroth, Mickel, from 12.00 midnight to 1.00pm, allowing Mulherin, Musgrove, Nelson-Carr, Nuttall, solemn services, parades and other Palaszczuk, Pearce, Reeves, Reynolds, Roberts, activities to take place in a quiet and Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Spence, Struthers, peaceful environment. Welford, Wells. Tellers: Purcell, Pitt There has been much media Resolved in the affirmative. comment in favour of the restriction and it is vital that the association keeps up the pressure for change." Committee This is the same conference which passed a Mr HEALY (Toowoomba North) in charge motion supporting four-year terms for local of the Bill. government. What did we have yesterday in Clause 1— this House? Mr GIBBS (9.54 p.m.): I guess the Mr Borbidge: They were quick to respond disappointing thing about this debate has to that. been that people have come into this place Mr HEALY: The Leader of the Opposition and deliberately tried to turn this into a very is right. What did we see in this House emotive issue whereas, in my opinion, it yesterday? The successful passage of should have been a debate which centred legislation giving local authorities what they around the fact that what we are debating is in wanted! fact a change to the State's liquor laws. With respect to any controversial As I have said on numerous occasions in legislation, individual members of Parliament this Parliament, the reality is that making a 24 Nov 1999 Liquor Amendment Bill 5331 change to major laws in this State based on As many of that opinion say "Aye", to the two complaints about an incident which took contrary "No". I think the ayes have it. place some two years ago cannot be justified. Mr GIBBS: Divide. Indeed, it is interesting to note that when these so-called disruptions took place on the Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Chairman, the Minister Gold Coast, the media reports at that time called "divide". A division is now called. revealed that the now Leader of the Question—That clause 1, as read, stand Opposition—the then Premier—was only part of the Bill—put; and the Committee vaguely aware of the issue. divided— Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. AYES, 40—Beanland, Black, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, E. Cunningham, Dalgleish, Davidson, Elliott, The CHAIRMAN: I was listening carefully Feldman, Gamin, Grice, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, to the member. Johnson, Knuth, Laming, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, Mr BORBIDGE: I move— Mitchell, Nelson, Paff, Pratt, Prenzler, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, Seeney, Sheldon, Simpson, Springborg, "That the clause be now put." Stephan, Turner, Veivers, Watson, Wellington. Tellers: Baumann, Hegarty The CHAIRMAN: Under the Standing Orders, there has not been enough debate on NOES, 39—Attwood, Barton, Beattie, Bligh, Boyle, the clauses at this stage. I ask the Minister to Braddy, Bredhauer, Clark, J. Cunningham, Hollis, address the clause. I remind him that he must Edmond, Fenlon, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Hamill, Hayward, Lavarch, Lucas, Mackenroth, Mickel, be very specific in addressing this clause, Mulherin, Musgrove, Nelson-Carr, Nuttall, which he is not at present. Palaszczuk, Pearce, Reeves, Reynolds, Roberts, Mr GIBBS: I believe that I am, Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Spence, Struthers, Mr Chairman, but I am certainly not going to Welford, Wells. Tellers: Purcell, Pitt disagree with you. Resolved in the affirmative. As I have said, the reality is that this Bill, The CHAIRMAN: The question is that which proposes changes to the Liquor Act clause 2, as read, stand part of the Bill. 1992, is based on an incident which Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Chairman, I move— supposedly took place on the Gold Coast. I had the briefing note in regard to the initial "That so much of Sessional Orders complaint that was sent to the former be suspended so that all remaining Government and the former responsible stages be put forthwith." Minister, Bruce Davidson. It is very specific— Honourable members interjected. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The motion by Mr Chairman, the Minister is clearly not the Leader of the Opposition is out of order. In following your ruling and addressing the Committee it is out of order. clause. I therefore move— Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Chairman, I therefore "That the clause be now put." move— The CHAIRMAN: As I have already ruled, "That all remaining clauses be put under the Standing Orders there has not been forthwith." enough debate on the clauses. Also under the Honourable members interjected. Standing Orders, the Minister must address Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Chairman, I move— the title of the Bill only. "That the Chairman report progress Mr GIBBS: The title of the Bill, of course, and the Committee seek leave to sit is an amendment to the Liquor Act 1992; it is again." the Liquor Amendment Bill 1999. Surely it is relevant to speak about why the Opposition Mr MACKENROTH: I oppose that motion. has seen it necessary to move this The Opposition obviously wants to gag amendment to change the name of the Act legislation before this Parliament. from—— Honourable members interjected. Mr BORBIDGE: I move— Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. I "That the question be now put." have moved a procedural motion that the Committee report progress and seek leave to The CHAIRMAN: I will just take some sit again. That is a procedural motion that advice. The question is— must be put. "That clause 1, as read, stand part of The CHAIRMAN: With all due respect to the Bill." the Leader of the Opposition, that is not 5332 Liquor Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999

Standing Orders. Standing Orders is that a Motion should be put forthwith without motion can be debated. Debate." Mr BORBIDGE: I move— The member has missed the point that there "That the motion be put." has not been sufficient debate. Mr Mackenroth: They haven't debated it Mr MACKENROTH: The reality is that— yet. Mr GRICE: Mr Chairman, I rise to a point The CHAIRMAN: Order! I call the Leader of order. I rise under Standing Orders 115 and of the House. 154. The first Standing Order relates to a matter of privilege suddenly arising. Standing Mr MACKENROTH: Mr Chairman, I have Order 154 states— listened to a lot of debates in this Chamber when the Opposition have claimed that they "A Division shall be called for only by think the Parliament should have the right to a Member who has given his voice debate issues. The situation is that they have against the majority as declared by Mr continually argued that they deserve the right Speaker." to have private members' Bills debated in this In this case that refers to the Chairman of Chamber. And now tonight they want to see Committees. I move— this debate stopped. We were quite prepared "That the question be now put." to allow clause 2 to go through and then have a debate on clause 3, as we are entitled to do. The CHAIRMAN: We are debating a But Opposition members just simply do not question at the moment, so there can be no want to see that happen. To stop this debate subsequent question before the Chamber. the way Opposition members are attempting Mr MACKENROTH: If those opposite do to stop it is wrong. not allow me to keep my thought pattern Mr Horan: Four weeks. Four weeks you've going, I will have to go back to the start. One had. of the problems we have with the Opposition is that it has continually argued that members Mr MACKENROTH: That is the sort of should be allowed to debate Bills in this democracy— Parliament. I heard someone complain about Mr GRICE: I rise to a point of order. I rise the fact that this debate had been going for on Standing Orders 115 and 164. Standing four weeks. That is the sort of Government we Order 115 states— are: we allow private members' Bills to be "A Member may rise to speak to debated. Order, or upon a matter of Privilege Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Chairman, I rise to a suddenly arising." point of order. This legislation has been The matter of privilege relates to Standing debated at length—for four weeks. Every Order 164, which states— aspect of this legislation has been adequately canvassed in this place, every Wednesday "All questions which arise in the night for four weeks. I therefore move— Committee of the Whole House shall be decided by the votes of the majority of the "That the question be now put." Members present, not including the Mr HAMILL: Mr Chairman, I rise to a point Chairman; and in case of an equality of of order. votes the Chairman shall have a casting Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Chairman, I have vote." moved "That the question be now put". According to those Standing Orders, I second Mr HAMILL: Mr Chairman, I rise to a point the motion of the Leader of the Opposition of order. that the question be put. The CHAIRMAN: I will hear the point of The CHAIRMAN: Order! Standing Order order. 142 contradicts the member's argument. It states— Mr HAMILL: The Leader of the Opposition is seeking to mislead the Chamber. "At any time during a Debate in the He has just claimed incorrectly— House or during the proceedings of a Committee of the Whole House, and Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Chairman, I rise to a whether a Member is speaking or not, any point of order. I have moved a procedural Member may move 'That the Question be motion: "That the question be now put". now put'; and, if Mr Speaker or the The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is no point Chairman is of opinion that the Question of order. You do not have a point of order on has been sufficiently debated, such what you have had to say so far. 24 Nov 1999 Liquor Amendment Bill 5333

Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order, debate on the clauses in fact not go ahead Mr Chairman. I have moved a procedural tonight. We need to have that debate. motion— Mr FOLEY: I support the observations of The CHAIRMAN: Order! Can I come back the Honourable the Leader of the House. to that? I have ruled it out before on the basis What we are seeing from the Opposition is the that there has not been sufficient debate on typical rank hypocrisy of an Opposition which this matter. continually seeks to argue the case for Mr BORBIDGE: There have been four parliamentary debates, yet when we move into weeks of debate, Mr Chairman. How much Committee suddenly they abandon all sense debate do you want? of commitment to the Committee process of the Parliament. They simply argue that the The CHAIRMAN: Order! second-reading debate is enough. They simply Mr BORBIDGE: Just because your side is argue the proposition that the clauses are not losing, you are giving biased rulings. This is a relevant, that we should not bother with the disgrace, Mr Chairman. clauses. That is a very poor approach to the The CHAIRMAN: Order! You are talking function of the Committee of the Whole. about the Bill; we are talking about the actual Much has been said in recent years about motion before the Parliament—your motion the function of parliamentary committees. "That the question be now put". Indeed, the honourable members of the Mr MACKENROTH: The position is that Opposition frequently have complained about we have debated one clause. There has been the role of parliamentary committees. Yet this one speaker on one clause in relation to this is the Committee of the Whole. This is the Bill. most important committee of the Parliament. It is charged with the function of scrutinising Opposition members interjected. legislation. The legislation which is before the Mr MACKENROTH: I cannot yell, so just Parliament includes very detailed provisions in keep it down a little bit and have just a little clause 3 yet to come— consideration. Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Chairman, I rise to a Mr NELSON: Mr Chairman, I rise to a point of order. I rise under the provisions of point of order. I would like to ask the Minister: Standing Order 142. I submit to the Chair that how much debate did we get on the IR Bill, there has been enough opportunity now for and why is he so riled at the fact that all we the Government to defend its despicable want to do is put the question? We have the behaviour. I have previously moved that the numbers. Let us have the division. The question be now put. It is clear that we are Government has lost; we have won. getting tedious repetition from members of the Government opposite in respect of their The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is no point inability to deliver the numbers in this of order. Resume your seat. Parliament tonight. I move— Mr MACKENROTH: There has been no "That the question be now put." debate on the clauses in relation to this legislation, and there should be. The The CHAIRMAN: Order! You cannot do Parliament is entitled to debate this. that at the moment. I make a firm ruling that I will hear one speaker from each side and then An Opposition member: What about the the motion will be put. IR Bill? Mr Horan: Including this? Mr MACKENROTH: The member wants us to have a debate on the IR Bill now, does The CHAIRMAN: I am hearing somebody he? We could do that for a while. The thing is from this side at the moment, and I am that we have not had a debate on the clauses prepared to hear somebody from the other and we should be allowed, at least for a side. period, to debate the clauses and allow Mr FOLEY: How ironic it is that these members to raise issues that they may wish to honourable members are heard to complain raise in this debate. about the role of committees in this I have heard many arguments from Parliament, yet when the Committee of the members of the Opposition when we have Whole is in session they want to gag it. They talked about trying to expedite legislation want to prevent the Parliament, in its through this Parliament. We have to have the Committee of the Whole, from carrying out its opportunity to at least debate these clauses, function of scrutinising the Bill in detail. and members are not allowing for that What we are seeing here is an opportunity if they support this motion that the extraordinary case of double standards on the 5334 Liquor Amendment Bill 24 Nov 1999 part of the Opposition. They have been willing 6 a.m. and 1 p.m., that the chief executive to debate this matter at considerable length. approves in a particular case. Having waited They have been willing night after night to patiently as the would-be next contributor in send a parade of speakers through this the debate with respect to the Electoral Parliament in order to debate this matter. Amendment Bill, and having listened patiently However, when it comes to examining the week after week to this debate, I would have detail of the Bill—when it comes to scrutinising thought that honourable members opposite the clauses, as is the function of the who are supporting this would actually want to Committee of the Whole—what we see is a descend to the detail of the Bill. I would have reluctant willingness to engage in that scrutiny. thought that if there was force in their The whole procedures of the Parliament turn arguments, and if they genuinely believed that upon a distinction between the Parliament this was important, they would be proud to go sitting as the Legislative Assembly and sitting into the detail of clause 2 and clause 3 in as a Committee of the Whole. The reason that particular—clause 3 being the operative we sit as a Committee of the Whole is, as is clause. But no, it seems that they want to indicated in the motion, to examine the Bill in avoid that scrutiny. detail. The reason that we have scrutiny of Opposition members interjected. legislation by the Committee of the Whole is to Mr FOLEY: The loud protests of members ensure that detail of legislation can be opposite are abundant evidence of just how examined, can be held up to close analysis little they wish to examine the Bill in and can be given the fine attention which a detail—how they wish to adopt one course of good law-making process requires. Instead, action when it suits them and a different what we are seeing is a willingness on the part course of action when it comes to examining of Opposition members to abandon that—to the Bill in detail. We have heard from abandon any of their commitment to the honourable members opposite just how principles which they espoused during the important this Bill is. We have heard from them course of the debate. And be it upon their how important the traditions of which they heads, because every time from now on when speak are. And yet what about these they wax sanctimonious about the traditions? parliamentary committee system, let us remind them of this night when they wanted to shut Mr Beattie interjected. down the Committee of the Whole. Let us Mr FOLEY: As the Honourable the remind them that the most important Premier observes, the very traditions of the Committee in this Parliament, namely, the Parliament entail the examination of the Bill in Committee of the Whole, was sought to be detail. gagged by them simply for reasons of expedience. That is something which does not Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM: I rise to a point of sit well with the protestations of their order. For four weeks, accusations have been commitment to the parliamentary committee made against some members who spoke in system, about which we have heard so favour of the Bill that they are doing this for laboriously from members opposite. political purposes. What is happening now—from all members in this Chamber—is an What is at issue here is whether or not the indignity contrary to what we are trying to Committee is to examine the Bill in detail. That achieve, that is, to dignify Anzac Day. I am is the issue. And on that issue, it is right and talking about our behaviour, not the strategies. appropriate that honourable members in this Chamber should have a chance to be heard. The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is no point They should not have their voices stifled of order. because of the political expediency of the Mr FOLEY: I do hope that honourable Opposition. The function of the Committee of members opposite feel chastened by those the Whole is to examine the Bill in detail, and remarks and refrain from their attack upon the that is there for a very good reason: in order to principles and procedures of the Parliament. ensure that the law-making process is carried The subsequent clauses which are yet to out with care and with fine attention to detail. It be debated by this Committee, clauses 2 and is extraordinary that they should abandon that 3, include specific reference to licensed proposition. premises, including premises that are a Mr SCHWARTEN: I rise to a point of cabaret. The Bill goes into specific details order. I draw the attention of the Committee to about the periods, namely, the period between the standard of dress of the honourable 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. or the period between member for Cunningham. 24 Nov 1999 Liquor Amendment Bill 5335

The CHAIRMAN: I suggest that the Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Committee honourable member for Cunningham get reports progress and asks leave to sit again. himself a coat. Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers Dr WATSON: What we have just heard Paradise—NPA) (Leader of the Opposition) from the Minister, the member for Yeronga, is (10.33 p.m.): I move— completely irrelevant. This motion is about "That so much of Standing and going back to the House to get direction from Sessional Orders be suspended so as to the House. That is the issue in this particular allow all remaining stages of the Bill to be case. What the member for Yeronga said was put forthwith." totally irrelevant. I support the Leader of the Opposition in putting the amendment right Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH (Chatsworth— now. ALP) (10.33 p.m.): I move— Mr GIBBS: I rise to oppose the motion. "That the resumption of the Committee be made an order of the day Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. for tomorrow." The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is a motion Question—That the resumption of the before the House. Committee be made an order of the day for Dr WATSON: That is what I said. tomorrow—put; and the House divided— The CHAIRMAN: It is a motion, not an AYES, 39—Attwood, Barton, Beattie, Bligh, Boyle, amendment. Braddy, Bredhauer, Clark, J. Cunningham, D'Arcy, Edmond, Fenlon, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Hamill, Dr WATSON: That is what I said—the Hayward, Lavarch, Lucas, Mackenroth, Mickel, motion, sorry. Mulherin, Musgrove, Nelson-Carr, Nuttall, The CHAIRMAN: Order! Is the member Palaszczuk, Pearce, Reeves, Reynolds, Roberts, rising to a point of order? Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Spence, Struthers, Welford, Wells. Tellers: Purcell, Pitt Mr GIBBS: I wish to oppose the motion. NOES, 40—Beanland, Black, Borbidge, Connor, Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Chairman, you Cooper, E. Cunningham, Dalgleish, Davidson, Elliott, indicated that you would put the motion. Feldman, Gamin, Grice, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, The CHAIRMAN: Order! I made a ruling Johnson, Knuth, Laming, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, Mitchell, Nelson, Paff, Pratt, Prenzler, Quinn, Rowell, on the Clerk's advice. Santoro, Seeney, Sheldon, Simpson, Springborg, Mr GIBBS: On what basis was the ruling Stephan, Turner, Veivers, Watson, Wellington. made? I would have thought that this was a Tellers: Baumann, Hegarty democratic process. Resolved in the negative. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers The CHAIRMAN: Order! I made the ruling Paradise—NPA) (Leader of the Opposition) on advice. I will now put the motion moved by (10.40 p.m.): I move— the Leader of the Opposition, which is that "That the resumption of the debate progress be reported. be made"— Question—That the Committee report Mr MACKENROTH: I rise to a point of progress and ask leave to sit again—put; and order. The member needs to seek leave. the Committee divided— Mr SPEAKER: I will seek advice from the AYES, 40—Beanland, Black, Borbidge, Connor, Clerk. Cooper, E. Cunningham, Dalgleish, Davidson, Elliott, Feldman, Gamin, Grice, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, Mr BORBIDGE: I move— Johnson, Knuth, Laming, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, "That the resumption of the Mitchell, Nelson, Paff, Pratt, Prenzler, Quinn, Rowell, Committee be made an order of the day Santoro, Seeney, Sheldon, Simpson, Springborg, for a later hour of this day's sitting." Stephan, Turner, Veivers, Watson, Wellington. Tellers: Baumann, Hegarty Question—That the resumption of the NOES, 39—Attwood, Barton, Beattie, Bligh, Boyle, Committee be made an order of the day for a Braddy, Bredhauer, Clark, J. Cunningham, Edmond, later hour of this day's sitting—put; and the Fenlon, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Hamill, Hayward, House divided— Hollis, Lavarch, Lucas, Mackenroth, Mickel, Mulherin, AYES, 40—Beanland, Black, Borbidge, Connor, Musgrove, Nelson-Carr, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Cooper, E. Cunningham, Dalgleish, Davidson, Elliott, Reeves, Reynolds, Roberts, Robertson, Rose, Feldman, Gamin, Grice, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, Schwarten, Spence, Struthers, Welford, Wells. Johnson, Knuth, Laming, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, Tellers: Purcell, Pitt Mitchell, Nelson, Paff, Pratt, Prenzler, Quinn, Rowell, Resolved in the affirmative. Santoro, Seeney, Sheldon, Simpson, Springborg, 5336 Adjournment 24 Nov 1999

Stephan, Turner, Veivers, Watson, Wellington. Milpera State High School Tellers: Baumann, Hegarty Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly—LP) NOES, 39—Attwood, Barton, Beattie, Bligh, Boyle, (10.54 p.m.): In October 1998 the Milpera Braddy, Bredhauer, Clark, J. Cunningham, D'Arcy, Special School became known as the Milpera Edmond, Fenlon, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Hamill, State High School. It caters for students from Hayward, Lavarch, Lucas, Mackenroth, Mickel, 54 suburbs, with many of these students Mulherin, Musgrove, Nelson-Carr, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Reeves, Reynolds, Roberts, changing addresses three times during their Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Spence, Struthers, 26 weeks at Milpera State High. These Welford, Wells. Tellers: Purcell, Pitt students are from a non-English speaking Resolved in the affirmative. background. The school, built in 1984 as a secondary intensive English language and Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers reception centre, has in recent times been Paradise—NPA) (Leader of the Opposition) handling increasing numbers of refugees and (10.48 p.m.): Mr Speaker— humanitarian students, who require much Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the longer at Milpera than do students with Opposition will wait for members to resume learning difficulties, due to the fact that they do their seats. not speak the English language. Mr BORBIDGE: You normally do not wait, The Milpera State High School lacks Mr Speaker, with respect. adequate funding for its literacy programs. Originally, funds were allocated under Literacy Mr SPEAKER: I always do. Enhancement Special Programs Schools. That Mr BORBIDGE: You are taking your time has now been disbanded and literacy funds tonight, for some reason. are now allocated on the basis of Australian Mr SPEAKER: The honourable member Bureau of Statistics data. Milpera received knows that I am always courteous to members funding under Literacy Enhancement Special of this House. Programs Schools not only in respect of its English as a second language students but Mr BORBIDGE: You are never this also in respect of those students who lacked courteous to us. I seek leave to move a prior schooling. Students from diverse motion without notice. backgrounds attend the Milpera State High Question—That leave be granted to School. move a motion without notice—put; and the As I said, these funds are now distributed House divided— using ABS data compiled on the basis of AYES, 40—Beanland, Black, Borbidge, Connor, postcode districts at a time when the students Cooper, E. Cunningham, Dalgleish, Davidson, Elliott, at the Milpera State High School were not Feldman, Gamin, Grice, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, even in Australia. As I said, Milpera's students Johnson, Knuth, Laming, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, are recent arrivals from overseas. When young Mitchell, Nelson, Paff, Pratt, Prenzler, Quinn, Rowell, people arrive in this country, they go into Santoro, Seeney, Sheldon, Simpson, Springborg, Commonwealth hostels and flats and then Stephan, Turner, Veivers, Watson, Wellington. move to other areas. As I said, sometimes Tellers: Baumann, Hegarty they move three times during their 26 weeks at NOES, 40—Attwood, Barton, Beattie, Bligh, Boyle, Milpera. Nearly all of the salaries are paid out Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Clark, J. Cunningham, of the Commonwealth funding for English as a D'Arcy, Edmond, Fenlon, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, second language programs, that is, the Hamill, Hayward, Lavarch, Lucas, Mackenroth, salaries of teachers at this high school are paid Mickel, Mulherin, Musgrove, Nelson-Carr, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Reeves, Reynolds, Roberts, by the Commonwealth Government. The Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Spence, Struthers, Queensland State Government contributes Welford, Wells. Tellers: Purcell, Pitt very little by way of funding. I understand that other States put considerably more into The numbers being equal, Mr Speaker schools operating on a similar basis to Milpera. cast his vote with the Noes. This is a State school and clearly the State Resolved in the negative. Government should treat it as such. Although it is a State school, it is treated as a Commonwealth facility. However, the State ADJOURNMENT owns the buildings and grounds. Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH (Chatsworth— Over the past 18 months I have heard the ALP) (Leader of the House) (10.54 p.m.): I Premier saying that no-one will leave the move— primary school system without meeting certain "That the House do now adjourn." literacy standards. However, most of these 24 Nov 1999 Adjournment 5337 students have spent a long time in refugee Another issue relates to the security of camps. Children of primary school age are not school grounds. Vacant grounds and buildings able to attend this school, because its are more likely to attract undesirable attention students must be aged between 12 and 18 from vandals and also make it easier for years. criminals to gain access without detection. Unlike other high schools, Milpera has no Therefore, we need to be looking at ways of formal P & C association. This is due to the better utilising our school buildings and trauma experienced by the parents and the facilities. In effect, this represents a wasted short time that children stay at Milpera. The opportunity, and it is in the public interest to school would appreciate Government resolve this matter. One way to address it is to assistance with the construction of a small develop strategic partnerships between multipurpose hall and performing arts space. schools and appropriate community organisations for a more efficient use of school State schools get subsidies for such facilities, facilities. because the P & Cs are able to match that funding. That is not the case with respect to The Minister for Education recently Milpera. initiated a very worthwhile program to assist this process, and I am referring to the School Community groups associated with the and Community Capital Innovator Scheme. school and also the school would make use of This scheme provides funding to help school such a space. Moreover, some classrooms communities achieve a greater use of their need upgrading and some buildings need facilities by the wider community. It is an painting, either as one-offs or as part of the exciting scheme which has the potential to Building Better Schools program. It is deliver significant benefits to schools and the embarrassing for the staff to receive visitors community and, importantly, make more from overseas when the building entrances efficient use of our expensive public school require painting and maintenance. Over 400 facilities. people a year visit the school. Although the program is new, the concept The school even has a couple of the old of joint use of school facilities has been around "tinnies", or old-style metal buildings, and it for some time, although not at the scale that is could benefit from an upgrade to new modular needed. For example, many schools have style buildings. Even the facilities grant for the swimming pools which are used not only by year 2000 is less than $8,000, because the the school but also by outside community interior of a classroom block that had not been swimming clubs. Another example was painted for the past 15 years has had to be provided to me by the member for Ashgrove. painted, and those funds have had to be The Gap State High School developed an used. A higher proportion of the compulsory- athletics facility on its grounds in partnership age students do not fit well physically into the with The Gap Little Athletics Club and The Gap small old "tinnie" style demountables—another Rangers Athletics Club. They now have lighting reason why there needs to be additional and other facilities which deliver benefits both funding for Milpera. to the school and to the general community. They are good examples based on sound principles, but they are only scratching the Community and School Facilities surface of what can be achieved with shared Mr ROBERTS (Nudgee—ALP) (11 p.m.): use. Tonight I wish to speak about the shared use The Department of Education has around of community and school facilities and $5 billion in assets and it is a tremendous particularly the partnerships that can be forged waste to have that amount of assets sitting with organisations such as Police Citizens idle for around 50% of the potentially active Youth Clubs to facilitate shared use. Several time throughout the year. That leads me to a honourable members have spoken recently proposal that I believe would provide a great about the need to better utilise our school opportunity to better utilise these assets. The facilities beyond the times they are used in the particular proposal I have is to involve the school day, particularly in the evenings, on Police Citizens Youth Club, which has an weekends and during holiday periods. There is excellent track record of providing safe, a huge public investment in these facilities, supervised recreational activities for young which in effect are underutilised relative to their people throughout the State. The PCYC has value. Additionally, a large amount of activity been in existence for over 50 years, making a space is locked up and generally not easily positive contribution to the lives of many young accessible to the community, apart from some people and local communities. I think that the limited use by some groups. model that they operate under is uniquely 5338 Adjournment 24 Nov 1999 suited to developing strong partnerships with something that we have all gotten used to the Education Department and with particular over time and it has disappeared literally schools. overnight. One day we are watching the The location of a PCYC facility on school Sheffield Shield and the next day we are grounds would provide a number of benefits. talking about the Pura Milk Cup. The school is, firstly, likely to have enough land I do not mind milk, whether it is super, or, in some cases, existing buildings which standard or light. More importantly, I know could house a PCYC, which would reduce the where it comes from. I think that this idea of cost of establishing the centre. Developing a changing names, such as changing Lang Park PCYC on school grounds would expand the to Suncorp Stadium, is silly. funding options available, for instance, the Mr Mickel: Fosters Melbourne Cup. School and Community Capital Innovators Scheme, which I have referred to, and also the Mr COOPER: The Fosters Melbourne Cup School Improvement Assistance Scheme in is another one that I have certainly used as an addition to funding programs offered by the example before. I have talked about the shield Office of Sport. The use of the facility would and Lang Park, but there are more. There is also be enhanced by school usage during the Vodafone Wallabies. How stupid does that weekdays and community use both on school sound? As for the actual companies, whether days and also after hours—on weekends and it be Vodafone, Pura Milk— during the school holidays. The presence of an Mr Mickel: Winfield Cup. active PCYC on school grounds would also Mr COOPER: That has gone. As far as I enhance security at the school. An extra staff am concerned, these companies are making person, who is assigned to each PCYC centre fools of themselves because the people are under appropriate arrangements, could also supplement the existing recreational staff or not going to take any notice. I am always sporting staff of a school. going to refer to "Lang Park", the "Sheffield Shield" or the "shield", the "Wallabies" and so I believe that schools and a PCYC are on. I think most other people will, too. uniquely placed to develop a dynamic partnership which could deliver recreational We know the reason why this is done; it is facilities for young people and also facilities for done for money. We are well aware that some use by the wider community. Both clubs and some sports need funds. However, organisations exist to service the needs of there must be better ways of raising those youth, so there is a sound starting point for funds. The shield and cricket in general will benefit from extra funding—whatever amount negotiations to commence between them. An that might be—from Pura Milk. However, I do alliance with the Education Department, in my think it is far better to leave the name of the view, makes sense. I will be writing to the shield as it is and to find some other way to relevant Ministers and the PCYC to encourage advertise Pura Milk so that the additional funds them to explore the possibilities I have referred can benefit the game. to tonight. Mrs Edmond: Isn't it better than having Benson and Hedges or something like that? Sheffield Shield Mr COOPER: No, I am talking about the Hon. T. R. COOPER (Crows Nest—NPA) Sheffield Shield versus Pura Milk; I am talking (11.04 p.m.): I endorse the remarks of the about Lang Park versus Suncorp Stadium; I member for Nudgee. He is one member on am talking about the Wallabies versus the the other side of the House who often comes Vodafone Wallabies. I would prefer the names up with some very sensible and practical ideas. to remain traditional. That is what I am used I am sure that most people on this side of the to. The Minister for Health might have other House would endorse his sentiments. ideas. I am not talking about cigarettes; I am I wish to speak tonight on the issue of talking about changing traditions without any naming rights. It is something that has come public consultation whatsoever. I think it is a up recently, especially in relation to the pity. The Minister is obviously not interested in Sheffield Shield, now known as the Pura Milk sport; I am. I am interested in traditions, as I Cup. If honourable members can identify that think most people are. It should not all be with the Sheffield Shield, then they are a about money. Obviously the Minister thinks it better person than I am. It is one of those should be; I do not. These sports need funds; things that is very, very hard to come to grips we know that. However, I think that money with—107 years of tradition of the Sheffield should be well spent, and I do not think it Shield. It does not matter that it was named should lead to interference with our traditions. I after Lord Sheffield—I do not care; it is think that is very, very sad indeed. 24 Nov 1999 Adjournment 5339

As I say, I think it reflects on the company Our camp this year was at Maroon concerned—Pura Milk. Traditional cricketers Dam. We did some water studies there would say, "This is silly. What a silly way to go and the difference between the water about it!" There are other ways to raise money. there and our creek now, makes us I do not think that we should be throwing out shocked. Our creek is spoilt." traditions such as that. It hurts. We should The letter is signed by a number of students think of all those cricketers who have played on behalf of Year 6 and Year 7 students. for the shield over the years—especially the Students also presented me with a petition Queenslanders, who have battled like nothing that had been gathered by the school on earth to try to win a shield. community and signed by children as young Mr Lucas: We took so long to win it, then as grade 1. The Environmental Protection they change it on us. Agency sent an officer to accompany me to Mr COOPER: Yes, the member is right, the school who was able to advise them—and then they change it. So now we have to go out I am pleased to see that the EPA has taken and win the Pura Milk Cup, which I do not think some action on this—that the waterways means anything at all. People can use their management plan would include regular chocolate toppings and so on, but it will not monitoring of this creek, starting next year. make any difference whatsoever. I think that is I would like to extend my congratulations sad. Most of our sportsmen—our cricketers, to the whole school community, to the footballers and so on—realise that, but they principal, Lyn Hinton, and their grade 7 cannot say anything because they receive teacher, Ms Desley Alexion. The parents of their pay from certain quarters and they cannot these young students can be very proud of get involved in that debate. I understand that. their hard work and genuine commitment to However, some of us are in a position to speak the protection of their local environment. The out for them and to say that we should keep future of our planet is indeed safe in the hands our traditions. We should not have to go of these young people as its custodians. changing names like that just for the sake of the dollar. I think it is sad and very unfortunate. Battle of the Bands: Browns Plains Police Time expired. Service Mr MICKEL (Logan—ALP) (11.12 p.m.): Urban Waterways: Norman Creek Next Sunday at the Greenbank RSL car park the Browns Plains police will be hosting a Hon. A. M. BLIGH (South Brisbane—ALP) Battle of the Bands for teenagers of Logan (Minister for Families, Youth and Community City. Of course, because it is in the West Care and Minister for Disability Services) Logan area, most of audience will come from (11.10 p.m.): I rise to express my concerns that great area of Logan City. But, more about growing pollution in urban waterways, importantly, it will be a community focusing specifically in Norman Creek, which runs through my electorate. This issue was brought event. We have had many such great events to my attention by the students of Buranda in the West Logan area this year, and this is State School, which backs onto this creek. I just another one of them. I want to pay tribute particularly to the RSL club management for its would like to read into Hansard a letter that community mindedness. Recently, it was sent to me by some of the students. The distributed more than $70,000 to community letter states— groups and sporting groups in the local area "Over the past few days we have and had a golf charity day where it distributed noticed an excessive number of dead fish a further $40,000 towards the local hospital. and some oil scum in the Norman Creek The Battle of the Bands is being next to our school. We have also noticed organised by the Browns Plains Police Service. that there aren't as many birds as usual. I want to pay tribute to Steve Pyne, Ted Dale We have never seen anything like and all the Police Service officers from the this here before. local area and district who have organised this We are very upset about this function. It will be a great function because the because Norman Creek is very important funds are going to go to the Logan West to us for our science. Respite Centre in the Logan West area. Last year we did numerous tests Ms Bligh: Hear, hear! such as PH Level, turbidity, speed of the Mr MICKEL: I notice that it has the currents etc and we found that our creek support of the Minister for Families, Youth and was suitable for life. Community Care and the Minister for Health, 5340 Adjournment 24 Nov 1999 because they know what an outstanding bank branches. It has learnt nothing about the service those people provide. John and his growing anger that this continuing policy team do a wonderful job on behalf of disabled engenders. Many rural towns have faced children and adults whose families are in need similar closures by the major banks, but of respite care. They will receive it at that Westpac has been the leader, and the anger centre. and the frustration felt in each case remains As all honourable members know, strong and heartfelt. Westpac's actions are community groups search long and hard to deserving of universal condemnation. find the funds that are needed. The funds The closure of any bank branch is a from this event are much appreciated. We do devastating blow to a country town's morale. appreciate the efforts of the Police Service in The loss of service opportunities for the bank's organising the event. The police have been at former customers is bad enough. Those pains to point out that, of course, the event will service opportunities can never be replaced by be alcohol free and, most importantly and electronic banking, information technology or assuredly, drug free. What we want to do is in-store services. The loss of jobs and job teach teenagers that they can have a lot of opportunities in the community is even worse. fun but they do not have to resort to those The loss of those jobs must, and always does, sorts of substances to be able to have fun. contribute to the downward spiral of economic Mr Lucas: There will be plenty of Pura activity in the town as the population declines milk there. and other services are lost. It is a pattern that is all too familiar to those of us who live in rural Mr MICKEL: I might say, on the subject of Queensland. Pura milk, that National Foods have been a very responsible citizen in Logan West. They Regrettably, the options open to do a wonderful job in the local community. Governments to prevent this betrayal of rural One of the things we should point out is that communities are very limited indeed. There is there is a lack of public transport in the area on nothing any Government or individual member Sundays. That is why this event is so can do to prevent or reverse the bank's important. It is going to give teenagers a great deplorable decision to close country branches. community thing to focus on, something to do Banks, after all, in the end, are private and something to have fun with. Whilst we are companies. These decisions are taken by doing that, I know all honourable members will managers who seem to sit in splendid isolation be right behind the Police Service and right in Sydney or Melbourne. The options for the behind all the volunteers who are going to put affected community to fight the closure of their together a magnificent day on Sunday in the bank branch are also limited—very frustratingly Logan West area. limited. The banks seem to have perfected the deplorable strategy of refusing to talk to the community at all once they announce their Rural Bank Branch Closures decision. As the member for Fitzroy said last Mr SEENEY (Callide—NPA) (11.14 p.m.): night in this Chamber, they lock themselves in This week Westpac Banking Corporation their vaults and will not talk to anybody. They announced that it was going to close three invariably refuse to attend public meetings or bank branches within the Callide electorate. enter into any meaningful discussion to explain The Westpac branches at Moura, or justify their decision to close any particular Mundubbera and Gin Gin are all set to close in bank branch. They display an arrogance that a continuing reduction of banking services in only serves to heighten the anger of the rural areas. This policy of all major banks to people whom their actions affect. continue closing bank branches in country In the case of the latest round of branch areas has had a devastating effect on rural closures, Westpac indulged in a farcical public communities across the State. Just about consultation process in the weeks leading up every community has felt the sting of lost bank to the closure. It was obvious to me that a branches. It is very unfortunate, to say the decision had already been made to close least, that the communities of Moura, those branches and that the so-called Mundubbera and Gin Gin are to be similarly consultation was simply a pathetic attempt to affected by this latest deplorable decision by deflect criticism and a pathetic attempt to the Westpac Banking Corporation. divert community leaders from expressing the It is obvious that Westpac has learnt anger of the people they represent. nothing from the backlash and the damage Westpac can be assured that it did not done to its public image by the continuation of work. I make it very clear that, to me, to all this policy of stripping country towns of their community leaders in central Queensland and 24 Nov 1999 Adjournment 5341 to all reasonable people in Queensland, the January 1962, in the hard days when mining Westpac Banking Corporation stands was done by hand and coal was hauled from condemned for this latest betrayal of rural the mine by pit ponies. In 1966 Bill had an Queensland. I urge all residents of Moura, experience that will stay with him forever. He Mundubbera and Gin Gin to support the witnessed his first fatality when a slab of coal financial institutions that are prepared to came away from the rib, or side, of the support those communities. I urge all residents workings and crushed a workmate to death. of Queensland generally to support the banks Like so many other mineworkers, Bill took and the building societies that stay in our on mines rescue training and for 14 years communities and to support the financial trained in preparation for the possible rescue institutions that support the people. of trapped miners or restoration of a mine I also take this opportunity to strongly damaged by a roof collapse, fire or explosion. urge all the major banks, and Westpac in On 10 January 1972, Bill and two other rescue particular, to cease—or even reverse—this trained members were required to enter Sirius deplorable program of branch bank closures Creek Mine near Blackwater to retrieve the and show some loyalty and commitment to the body of a young mine electrician who had lost people and the communities who have his life in an explosion earlier that day. supported the banking institutions for so many In 1974 Bill moved to Moura, where he years and to show some understanding and started work as a deputy at Kianga mine. On compassion for the effect that this policy is the afternoon of 20 September the following having on country towns throughout Australia. year the mine exploded, killing 13 men underground. Those men remain entombed Mr W. Allison there today. In June 1978 Bill was elected to the position of district union inspector. Over the Mr PEARCE (Fitzroy—ALP) (11.18 p.m.): next 22 years he was involved in the On behalf of the Queensland coalmining investigations of some 52 fatalities. He lost industry and, in particular, the mineworkers of mates and brothers of the coal industry family. this State, I wish to place on the public record He shared in the heartache of those who lost our appreciation and best wishes in retirement loved ones in Queensland's most hostile work to a man who has spent more than 20 years environment. He understood the anger and of his life as a district union inspector. The did what he could to promote a healthy and Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy safe workplace. Union's longest serving official of the Queensland district of the Miners Union, Mr Bill During his time as a district union Allison, retired in late August. I have had the inspector, Bill was present at about a dozen pleasure of knowing Bill as a friend and as an underground fires at mines near Ipswich and official of the Miners Union at the workplace at Laleham, Leichhardt, North Goonyella and and as a State member representing the coal Collinsville. Earlier this year he was involved in industry of Queensland. While it would be the investigation of two recent accidents in untrue to claim Bill as a personal and close which miners lost both legs. friend, I can rightly claim to have built a strong In the months leading up to his retirement friendship through our working relationship Bill was also strong and vocal in his criticism of within and outside the coal industry. the way mining companies are using We both have one thing in common: a contractors who are inexperienced, how they passion for the coal industry and for the are prepared to put outcomes ahead of safety absolute need to provide a safe and healthy and how they are prepared to accept the risk workplace environment for the State's that fatigue brings to a workplace. coalminers. There would be people at all levels Bill Allison has done an outstanding job in of the coal industry who did not for one reason making Queensland coalmines safer working or another actually like Bill Allison, but for every places. Those new to the industry have a safer person who disliked him there would be work environment, safer work practices, hundreds more who respected him as a man, appropriate safety equipment and the world's as a miner and as an inspector. Bill had what it best legislation covering coalmine health and took to be an elected coalmine union safety in coalmines, largely thanks to Bill inspector. He had an understanding of the Allison. The best way to sum up Bill Allison's industry, he had commonsense, he had guts contribution to the coalmining industry is to use and he was not afraid to make the tough his own words. He said— decisions. "Not having to attend another fatality Bill Allison first started in the coal industry or serious accident or pick up the phone at the Avondale Colliery in New South Wales in in the middle of the night to be told there 5342 Adjournment 24 Nov 1999

has been another disaster will be a great relief but one I don't wish on anyone else." To Bill I say, "Enjoy your time in retirement. You have given so much in the interests of coalmine safety. Put aside, if you can, the sad times and the anger and be proud of your achievements in making our mines safer places to work. For the public record I thank you sincerely. Congratulations on a job well done. Good luck, and may you enjoy many years of good health and happiness with those you love and care for." Motion agreed to. The House adjourned at 11.23 p.m.