Twenty small to take you anywhere pdf

Continue John Vigor has been for more than 40 years in boats ranging from 11 to 72 feet, logging 15,000 miles of ocean voyaging. He is the author of seven marine books, and makes articles in Cruise World, SAIL, and monthly. I read John Vigor Twenty Small Sailboats take you anywhere. It seems like a great book for someone like me who wants to buy a small first proper boat that I don't have to trade if/when I want to go out into the oceans. The problem is only about five boats are available in the UK second-hand market as far as I can tell. So what would you put in the equivalent book based on the designs available here? Vigor's criteria were: Ocean-capable Crossing Price of 2,000 to 30,000 pounds 20 feet to 32 feet LOD Go Last edit: 19 February 2010 Based more on reading than actual experience, the usual choice will be something like: Contessa 26 Invicta 26 Halcyon Coast 27 South Design One Design 8m Thank you. To avoid a repeat, I might note the book covers Albin Vega, Contessas 26 and 32, Francis/Morris 26, Folkboat and Nicholson 31. I'll look at the others. Vancouver 27 or 28 will be on my list. I believe John Vigor's book includes Catalina 27. In Europe it is called Jaguar 27 and they are widely available. There is a trend on this list to modern versions of old-fashioned long designs while in fact there are many more modern designs that have been successfully used for oceans voyaging. With a budget of 30,000 pounds, there is a huge choice. Those still offered are all limited in placement, so it's only very suitable for one gear or a cozy spartan two gear. Many are willing to put up with this as they believe it is offset by excellent seakeeping - or low cost, minimal maintenance, etc. Interesting almost no one builds this type of boat anymore and none of them will reach the RCD category! (If it's important for potential to go anywhere travelers) I believe John Vigor's book includes Catalina 27. In Europe it is called Jaguar 27 and they are widely available. Thanks, just read about it now. Vigor seems to think it's a bit of a boundary to oceangoing capabilities if you really, really know what you're doing. Don't forget Cutlass 27 There is a trend on this list to modern versions of old-fashioned long keel designs while in fact there are many more modern designs that have been successfully used for ocean voyaging. With a budget of 30,000 pounds, there is a huge choice. Those still offered are all limited in placement, so it's only very suitable for one gear or a cozy spartan two gear. Many are willing to put up with it because they believe it It is interesting that almost no one builds this type of boat anymore, and none of them will be RCD Category A! (If it's important for potential to go anywhere for travelers) the Vigor limit was 30,000 pounds (well $50,000), my more like 20,000 pounds, preferably half of that. And I look at one and the short hand. But obviously it's a very early days for me, so I'm interested in a little more expensive boats for general discussion purposes. Who knows, I can get a take-off. And obviously the more expensive boats of the same date/model can save a bit by half as much-again I was told I should allow to sort it out. Last edited: 19 February 2010 I'm sure all kinds of boats will make it through (but may not be suitable on paper). Didn't Etap 26 do the ARC a few years ago? So: Etap 26 Leisure 27 Leisure 23 (one made Atlantic and Pacific recently) Cobra 850 Corryby Shipman 28 Ruffian 23 Seamaster 815 Obviouslly I'm biased, but as you bring the budget down and expand your wants it continues pointing at Albin Vega .. Look at the website www.albinvega.co.uk think you'll be surprised. Ask Webcraft about his travels with his Vega. More than 20 of them skirted and innumerable crossed the Atlantic. Sleeps 4, but 3 is OK and 2 is very comfortable. Steve B I read John Vigor's Twenty Small Sailboats take you anywhere. It seems like a great book for someone like me who wants to buy a small first proper boat that I don't have to trade if/when I want to go out into the oceans. The problem is only about five boats are available in the UK second-hand market as far as I can tell. So what would you put in the equivalent book based on the designs available here? Vigor's criteria were: Capable of crossing the ocean Price from 2000 to 30,000 pounds from 20 feet to 32 feet LOD Go Vertue, or Vertue II. Gaud, only 20? There must be 50 UK boats available in that price bracket that will do the job, don't panic ! For a start I think something built by a reputable builder like Halmatic (shape), Westerly, marine projects and rival (southern shipbuilding?). Then there are all continental. And don't forget that Bavaria is actually quite amazing. One model noted that I would reject this Catalina (Jaguar) 27. Drinking tea on one that was sailed windward from the states to Puerto Rico, I was horrified by the very real distortion deck, chain slabs, basic bulkheads, etc., just from the mast load. Mebbe British ones used heavier laminate though? Nicholson 26 is a capable cape boat. Some have crossed the pond I believe Nicholson 32 is a great sea boat. Maybe it's worth looking at Sigma33 OD not OOD. The OD has a mast installation and a longer but shorter keel. I know one who has swam NAAB more than once and believe record others doing some long-distance sailing. The price would be about right, although not sure how much was done. Aphrodite101 Nicholson 32 Rival 32 Nantucket Clipper Sadler32 Sadler32 Rustler31 She 31/32 Contest 30 Elizabeth 29/30 Contessa 32 Golden Hind 31 Hustler30 Pioneer 9m Trintella 29 Achilles 840 Moodys and Westerlis are all capable. Let's not forget the huge number of wooden boats also out there, of which there are too many to mention. Favored will be a twister or Vega to keep it small and simple. Albin Vega - pros and cons. Vega is a well-tested solution for affordable blue water crusing. We dabbled with a trip to the Canary Islands and the Azores, so FWIW here are my thoughts on the pros and cons of this particular type: PROS ------simple, well built, not so much to go wrong, not prone to osmosis and encapsulated long keel with a cut-out of the foot is IMO optimal body shape, Combining excellent speed for water length with good seafaring qualities - Great pleasure to sail - generally no pedestrian Outdoor accommodation (no table charts or extensive galley) means there is plenty of living space and an airy feel lower - More space The front part than many 33 footers - proper space double bed means you have proper own cabins in the harbour or anchor - Good self-draining cabins, side decks big enough to go forward safely , capacious stacking in the cabin lockers and infirmary - An excellent ventilation system built in by the designer means that the boat stays dry inside - more than 3000 built - always somewhat on the market, loads of tips, support and spare parts from the Owners Association - Excellent value for money, if you choose the right one CONS ------Only 5' 7 permanent stock - good for us as we are (halcyon 27 has the best stock) - No table charts - although many people built a solution, while others did not believe that this is a problem , Gully usually did not get the oven if the layout was changed. Again, we didn't find that problem during the year we lived on board and Windows are a known weakness in knockdown/survival situations. Some replace them with alu frames, we made stormboards (cheap and easy). The original (Volvo) engines and the crazy Combi feed gears are usually worn out and should be discarded - ideally look for one where the previous owner is already re-motored or be prepared to do so before you leave. The anchor locker is a bit small - we almost managed to cram the 35m chain and 20m strain into our ------hope it's useful perhaps people with other types in this category (cheap livea/blueboard potential) can post similar lists of pros and cons. - W may be worth a look at Sigma33 OD not OOD. The OD has a mast head installation and a longer but shorter keel. I know one who swam NAAB more than once and believe there are records of others doing long- distance sailing. The price would be about right, although not sure how much was done. The only quality that MH Sigma33 has that OOD lacks is the ability to go everywhere slowly. In B The 1970s was still resisting among some killed in wool cruisers fractional installation, so sell a few more hulls of marine projects cobbled together cruise version, with lower standard installation and deck gear. Ask David Thomas, who is the best boat. OOD is a much better sea boat in a storm than the much praised Contessa 32. OOD is a much better sea boat in a storm than the much praised Contessa 32. Not an opinion I've heard expressed elsewhere I have to say I've floated both Sigma OOD and Sigma 33C and prefer the masthead version personally, but if I had to be offshore in the storm I would have Contessa any day. I think there are as many opinions as boats. I certainly don't think any Sigma variety falls into the OP category of small available blue water boats under 20,000 pounds though. - W Last edit: 19 February 2010 The difference may be that I did it. Contessa was almost awash below before the night was half over. Anyone got 20k I can find you a selection of OOD Sigmas, mh ones will be even cheaper, although I admit it is harder to find. Last edited: 19 February 2010 Page 2 Difference may be that I did it. Contessa was almost awash below before the night was half over. Anyone got 20k I can find you a selection of OOD Sigmas, mh ones will be even cheaper, although I admit it is harder to find. Without disputing you could find Sigma33 for just under 20,000 pounds, but I think it would take a lot spent to bring it up to the Bluewater specs. Also, the advanced on Sigma is pitifully small, so it's not as comfortable IMO for long term liveaboard in the harbor as you will have to sleep in the cabin. It is better to buy something a little less and something is left in the bank to spend on it when its flaws become apparent. Why was Contessa inundated below? What caused that this would not have happened on Sigma? - Last edited: 19 February 2010 . Vega is a well-tested solution for affordable blue water crusing. We dabbled in a trip to the Canary Islands and the Azores, so FWIW here are my thoughts on the pros and cons of this particular type: PROS ------Simple, well built, not so much to go wrong, not prone to ossom and encapsulated long keel with a cut-out foot is IMO's optimal body shape, combining excellent speed for water length with good seafaring qualities - great pleasure to sail - not on all pedestrians of life and air space to feel lower than many 33 lackeys - proper space double bed means you have proper own cabins in the harbour or anchor - Good self-draining cabins, side decks big enough to go forward safely, capacious styling in the cockpit and the infirmary Excellent ventilation system built in by the designer means that the boat stays dry inside - more than 3000 built - always somewhat on Plenty of tips, support and spare parts from the Owners Association - Great value for money if you choose the right CONS ------Only 5' 7 permanent stock - perfect for us as we are gnomes but not so good for talc. (halcyon 27 has the best margin) - No table charts - although many people have built a solution, while others don't believe it's a problem, Galli usually wouldn't get an oven if the layout was changed. Again, we didn't find that problem during the year we lived on board and Windows are a known weakness in knockdown/survival situations. Some replace them with alu frames, we made stormboards (cheap and easy). The original (Volvo) engines and the crazy Combi feed gears are usually worn out and should be discarded - ideally look for one where the previous owner is already re-motored or be prepared to do so before you leave. The anchor locker is a bit small - we almost managed to cram the 35m chain and 20m strain into our ------hope it's useful perhaps people with other types in this category (cheap livea/blueboard potential) can post similar lists of pros and cons. - W It's a really useful synopsis. I am in the process of acquiring my own Vega and can't wait to get off sailing. I will bow to your much greater experience/knowledge of these boats, but can I add a great cabin table to the list? I discovered the other day that it will be easy to turn into all sorts of positions, so you can turn it out of the aisle without dismantling it (and without having to clean it either!) and of course it can go in the cockpit too. On cons, you didn't mention the notorious handling under the authority, although I was on board with the current/previous owner and was impressed with the control it had. As another against you would add that the head is not really separate? On cons, you didn't mention the notorious handling under the authority, although I was on board with the current/previous owner and was impressed with the control it had. As another against you would add that the head is not really separate? Handling under power is better with a conventional gearbox as you can use propwalk. It's never going to be great though and we rarely go back to the wharf berth! (Although, if you can manage it, it retains the embarrassment of leaving). However... what percentage of your mileage do you expect to make the car in reverse? Head privacy may be a bit of a problem, but I once floated on the Vega, which was the second thin door loop on the other side, so that the head compartment could be completely closed, so it's possible. - W Tradewind 33, very capable, strong. Made an extended Atlantic chain in one. Tradewind 33, very capable, strong. Made an extended Atlantic chain in one. not sure you'll find one for 30k not to mention 20K is not sure you'll find one for under 30k let alone 20k OP said to 30K 30K 33 may just squeeze under this bar, 35 probably won't, although Vega was a very likely candidate even before I did this topic, that is, if I don't want to go above the end of my budget. I did thread because I was wondering about other options though. no one mentioned in the cons of the vega deck step mast compression issue. is it a problem of strength seems to think it is? another point of interest with Vega they seem to be far, much cheaper in Sweden. but then again, thanks for all the suggestions, this is a great source of information for someone in my position. another point of interest with Vega they seem to be far, much cheaper in Sweden. Probably not when you start summing up the cost of browsing, frustration, viewing, frustration, viewing, shooting, shooting, shopping, shake sail, disappointment, repairs, pass costs, etc. No one said that owning an old boat was easy, I think the OP needed to be informed that only 70% to 80% of the top, from its budget, should be spent on buying their boat. He'll need balance, and probably then some to fit it the way he wants. I think the OP needs to remember that only 70% to 80% of the top, from its budget, should be spent buying his boat. He'll need balance, and probably then some to fit it the way he wants. THE OP has already posted on this account probably not when you start reducing the cost of browsing, frustration, browsing, frustration, browsing, checking, shooting, shopping, shake sail, frustration, repair, pass costs, etc. No one said that owning an old boat was easy yes, but you know, can be fun. Aphrodite101 Nicholson 32 Rival 32 Nantucket Clipper Sadler32 Twister Rustler31 She 31/32 Contest 30 Elizabethan 29/30 Contessa 32 Golden Hind 31 Hustler30 Pioneer 9m Trintella 29 Achilles 840 Moodys andlies are all capable. Let's not forget the huge number of wooden boats also out there, of which there are too many to mention. Favored will be a twister or Vega to keep it small and simple. All of the above plus: Arpege Ecume de mer Lets not forget the huge number of wooden boats, also there, which are too much to mention. there was a wooden boat sink under me, a canal cruiser. So never again. I know it's biased. my cousin took his 1914 wooden boat to South America. but I just won't sleep so well in one after the experience. Without disputing you could find Sigma33 for just under 20,000 pounds, but I think it would take a lot spent to bring it up to the Bluewater specs. Also, the advanced on Sigma is pitifully small, so it's not as comfortable IMO for long term liveaboard in the harbor as you will have to sleep in the cabin. Better to buy a little less and something is left in the bank to spend on it when its flaws become apparent. Why was Contessa inundated below? Below? caused that it wouldn't have happened on Sigma? - W Forecabin of 33OOD is just as big as the many boats listed above, while I used to use quarterberth, I found it comfortable enough for two when my wife was on board and it's pretty high, although I agree that it's not somewhere to sleep on a long beat. Most OODs are supported to a very high class standard which means they have good inc sails. spinnakers and generous high spec. They don't have a single riffing line, but it still riffs easily and they carry a full sail on some tall rooms. For example, class rules require two anchors with a chain, etc. where they may be inadequate in perhaps not having ebers or calorifiers, but then not every boat has those. The humidity of Contessa was due to the amount of water sweeping back over the deck and coachroof, (when you're hurting at night the navigator tends to go up and down like slut boxes, especially before Decca/GPS) Sigma has a less attractive profile, but a much higher freeboard means that big waves tend not to go back past the garage hatch. (As hard racers we've never had sprayhoods, although most Sigmas and Conrtessas have them now, at least when cruising) I don't agree that you should discount boats, especially before the 80s, just because it was designed for racing, it could mean a higher level for almost everything, in the seventies, unlike today, almost everyone raced until they felt too old for it. Impalas, Hydros and to extent Bolero were other smaller seaworthy David Thomas samples. Hi kesh Aphrodite101 Nicholson 32 Rival 32 Nantucket Clipper Sadler32 Twister Rustler31 She 31/32 Contest 30 Elizabethan 29/30 Contessa 32 Golden Hind 31 Hustler30 Pioneer 9m Trintella 29 Achilles 840 Moodys and Westerlis are all capable. Get ready for this topic to wander around a bit. I like the Sequoia list and is really ff-nich with its Arpege and Ecume de Mer Plastic folk boats capable, but in my opinion too small for all but an exceptional sailor. Marieholm 32 is rare in this country, but you may be lucky and get one about 20k. PS Sadler 29 is also worth thinking about, tatty one here: Last edited: 19 February 2010 Get ready for this topic to wander a bit. exactly what I want, I like the Sequoia list and really ff-nich with its Arpege and Ecume de Mer Plastic folk boats capable, but in my opinion too small for all but an exceptional sailor. Marieholm 32 is rare in this country, but you might be lucky and get one around 20k. you just mean a folkboat/international folkboat, or that plus variation on a theme like vega and contessa 26. I haven't checked all the recommendations, but Many types of folkboat are about 26 feet for 5-10000 and many 31-33 footers for 20-30,000. my perfect budget is right in between. Them. Oysterman 22, strong, very seaworthy, four berths, separate toilet, nice galley, over six foot stock, powerful gaff setup, deep cabin, light one-handed, well that's my opinion of my for sale!! no one mentioned in the cons of the vega deck step mast compression issue. is it a problem of strength seems to think it is? I don't think so. We beat most of the way around Ireland in strong conditions with no problems, but then we never toughen up the rigging too much. When we were in La Homer the young guy on Achilles 24 was tightening up his rigging with Loos calibrating before settting off across the pond and I borrowed it from him. Our savannah hat is barely registered. I made them a little bit, but not much. Despite this, the rig has never exhibited any inhospitable symptoms (oscillations, pulsations, bending and all the other disturbing things that people are talking about) and we are closer to us than many boats. You can in any case get a mast beam strengthening kit from the Vega Association for less than 200 pounds, and it's not rocket science to match it, just PITA so many things are on the boat. We carried one to the Canary Islands and back intending to fit it along the way and I eventually installed it a year after we returned, more for peace of mind than because there was any problem. I've increased the rigging tensions a bit now, but it doesn't really matter - adjusting forestay tensions with backstay is much more important when moving to windward. Anyway, you're going to be cruising no race, and long hard windward bashes can usually be avoided if you have plenty of time. - W Last edit: 19 February 2010 is exactly what I want, you just mean a folkboat/international folkboat, or that plus variation on a theme like vega and contessa 26. Well, its a bit of a sliding scale. International Folkboat is particularly small below deck (albeit spacious compared to the genuine article plastic Nordic Folkboat) Contessa bigger and Vega more again. All fine options, but with (say) 20,000 pounds to spend, I'd say you can afford to go for a little more space and comfort at sea. . We paid 11,000 pounds for our Vega in 2003 and I think by the time we left the UK in 2006 for our annual Atlantic cruise we had spent another 8,000 pounds on a new engine, new rigging, sails, protective gear, spare parts and general repairs. The preparation must have been good because nothing broke 6,000 miles away while we were away - all we had to replace were batteries. Mind you, we always sail it very conservatively on offshore aisles. I think it's much better to buy more boat and make sure it's up to work than set off with lots of dodgy gear in a big boat and run out of money or worse when things start to break down. You don't need space at sea, just a safe cabin and a nice sea heat, and Vega's movement in the sea route is more comatose than The harbour has a wonderfully spacious feel for accommodation - it's huge compared to The Contessa 26. - W Last edit: 19 February 2010 Page 3 And Oysterman 22, strong, very seaworthy, four berths, separate toilet, good galley, over six foot stock, powerful gaff setup, deep cabin, lightweight one-handed, well that's my opinion of my for sale! The Oysterman 22 feels much more boat than its length would suggest. Feels more like a 30-footer. Probably weighs much more than the average 30 footer! . Vega is a well-tested solution for affordable blue water crusing. Although I have never swam Vega, I have met many owners in my travels who were very happy with their choice. Many of them circumnavigation of the world. At the upper length limit I would include Centurion 32. However, finding a good one that is below the limit of 30,000 pounds may require some diligent shopping around. Although not the most receptacle, by today's standards, she can take almost everything that was thrown at her. Shane Acton did well with his 18 Mark 1 Caprice - he even hung out and Woolworths inflatables for the cirumnavigation part! I think the OP needs to remember that only 70% to 80% of the top, from its budget, should be spent buying his boat. He'll need balance, and probably then some to fit it the way he wants. Or a few good hours of his own man. I broke this rule got more more seafaring boat within this budget, but with the need for a few DIY updates - you can do that, but recognize that you need to spend the next 5 years gradually upgrading. Its important that the right bits are in good nick. You can cross the oceans with the main boat, without heating, manual water pumping, paper maps, traditional tools and GPS for 100 pounds if you want, but good sails and reliable stand-up rigging are essential. I'd rather have a little bigger sea yacht for the money. Isn't it restored under this Budget Sigma 33C to win this race, whose name I forgot across the Atlantic recently? This proves its credentials to me in any way I don't think the black and white rules work well in this debate - common sense is important though OSTAR: or a good few hours of man. I broke this rule got more more seafaring boat within this budget, but with the need for a few DIY updates - you can do that, but recognize that you need to spend the next 5 years gradually upgrading. Its important that the right bits are in good nick. You can cross the oceans with the main boat, without heating, manual pumping water, paper maps, traditional tools and GPS behind pounds if you want, but good sails and reliable stand-up rigging are essential. I'd rather have a little bigger sea yacht for the money. Isn't it restored under this Budget Sigma 33C to win this race, whose name I forgot across the Atlantic recently? It proves its credentials to me in any way I don't think black and and The rules work well in this debate - common sense is important, although the one that hasn't been mentioned yet (surprisingly in my opinion) is Hurley 22. admittedly at the small end of your criteria but a very capable and good one, fully fitted out for ocean passes, will still leave you a lot in your cruising fund. Chris don't forget the Macwesters I notice in the news 188ft steel barquentine just sank off Brazil. So maybe size doesn't really matter. .... Leisure 23 (one made by the Atlantic and Pacific recently)... Really? I haven't heard of it - do you know of any connections? According to BlackPig's contribution you may not have seen the 2010 jester call entry: PS It also reminded me that Albin Ballada 30 is another worth thinking about, a fair number around and becoming less popular for club racing, should be able to bag a reasonable one under 17,000 pounds. It's a good sea boat. Last edited: 19 February 2010 I may be looking at the 2012 jester challenge ballad looks spot on, size and price wise. not so much ocean going to story as some though, afaik. Many Scandinavians have crossed the Atlantic - and the Pacific in Ballad, so this is proven. I love ballads. But since so many Vega have been build they probably always exceed the ballad? I'm maybe looking at a 2012 jester challenge ballad looks spot on, size and price wise. not so much ocean going to story as some though, afaik. Gaud, only 20? There must be 50 UK boats available in that price bracket that will do the job, don't panic ! For a start I think something built by a reputable builder like Halmatic (shape), Westerly, marine projects and rival (southern shipbuilding?). Then there are all continental. And don't forget that Bavaria is actually quite amazing. One model noted that I would reject this Catalina (Jaguar) 27. Drinking tea on one that was sailed windward from the states to Puerto Rico, I was horrified by the very real distortion deck, chain slabs, basic bulkheads, etc., just from the mast load. Mebbe British ones used heavier laminate though? I had a Jaguar 27 that was built under license by UK Jaguar Yachts on Canvey Island with all the UK source equipment and I understand it was built much heavier than the US Catalina. I can assure you I swam all over the Thames estuan in all kinds of weather with no worries at all - in fact I always reckoned the boat would stand up to much more than the crew could. I have never had any doubts about its integrity and ability to withstand severe weather. I would recommend J27 (UK built!). We are Our 1977 Moody 33 in less than 30K. We lived on board for almost 12 years and crossed the Atlantic in our boat 4 times. Does it help?? We got our 1977 Moody 33 in less than 30K. We have been living on board for almost 12 years and and The Atlantic is in our boat four times. Does it help?? It all helps. I will print this thread when it is done with and use it while the boat is being pierced. We got our 1977 Moody 33 in less than 30K. We lived on board for almost 12 years and crossed the Atlantic in our boat 4 times. Does it help?? Yes, my current boat is 1979 Moody 33, and it costs considerably less than 20k and as capnsensible says I would be happy to cross the Atlantic in it - I just resumed skinfitting for toilet sockets and grp at that point was 1 thick - very reassuring. Last edited: 19 February 2010 I had a Jaguar 27 that was built under license by UK Jaguar Yachts on Canvey Island with all uk source equipment and I understand it was built much heavier than the US Catalina. I can assure you I swam all over the Thames estuan in all kinds of weather with no worries at all - in fact I always reckoned the boat would stand up to much more than the crew could. I have never had any doubts about its integrity and ability to withstand severe weather. I would recommend J27 (UK built!). It may be paranoia, but the hatch/companionway seems pretty big to me. I think it should be well built well enough not to be a weak spot... provided it's closed when a wave bursts into the Cabin Of Page 4 There's been some damn good suggestions here. Stick with the forum and let us know what you decide and how you get on. Good luck. I believe John Vigor's book includes Catalina 27. In Europe it is called Jaguar 27 and they are widely available. Thanks, just read about it now. Vigor seems to think it's a bit of a boundary to oceangoing capabilities if you really, really know what you're doing. I'll let you know if I get to the Azores in 2012 really? I haven't heard of it - do you know of any connections? The boat was named Valkyrien, I followed his blog and had a great photo. It sailed from Norway to Belgium, then through French channels to Gibraltar and crossed the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. He finally gave up his trip to New zealand, but unfortunately all this seems to have disappeared now, the links went empty Aha found a link to his adventures in another blog, click on Valkyrien ... Unfortunately, this french last edited: 20 February 2010 Based more on reading than actual experience, the usual choice will be something like: Albin Vega Contessa 26 Invicta 26 Halcyon 27 South Coast One Design Folkboat Offshore 8m Glad to see offshore 8 meters included as it should be one of the most mentioned under the sea worthy models around. Roger Taylor's exploits made a compelling case for Corribby - see thesimplesailor.com his tales. I'm embarrassed by this thread about small boats, or boats up to 32 feet? I remember when 27ft was a big boat It's a thread about small boats, or boats up to 32ft? I remember The 27ft was a big boat I went to define Vigor, just because you need to draw a line. Although I'm glad people stretched it. My main criteria are the safety and availability of blue water. Glad to see offshore 8 meters included as it should be one of the most under mentioned sea worthy models around. Well, I only turned it on because I like the look of them! Not quite all that different from Vega, as far as I understand? Keep in mind that this is just based on reading about them and not actually owning/sailing on them! Ignore the list of Vigor ... someone like me who wants to buy a small first proper boat that I don't have to trade if/when I want to go out into the oceans... Don't get hung up on The Vigor list, look at a few examples from your own boat shortlist, and then go for what your heart tells you. FWIW, in a different position to you three years ago and with a similar buget range, looking a little different 25-28' boats for home water and later offshore use (long keel heavy offset was always my own priority so this narrowed my list), I bought the first Vancouver 27 I saw, even though it was at the top end of my budget range - and didn't regret it. She was good from the start, and slowly - year after year - improving it without wasting extra fortune. someone like me who wants to buy a small first proper boat that I don't have to trade if/when I want to go out into the oceans. There are a lot of great boats out there (including the Samphire range, of course! - see below). However, I think it may be a mistake to try to buy the perfect boat for your needs for your first boat. Your views will almost certainly change after you have had your own boat for a while. So instead of thinking that you should try to avoid having to change the boats later, recognize what you probably will. (It's actually really nice to change boats!) Go for something affordable (and resale!), which takes your fancy (and especially what suits your home cruising water) and then see how you get with it. Postpone committing yourself to having the ultimate cruising boat, or kitting it for ocean cruising until you're sure that the boat is the right type for you, and don't worry if you find that you're turning to something else after a while. (You may even find you change your mind about wanting to do ocean cruising, or decide what you prefer to do this aspect of sailing in someone else's boat!) Happy sailing in what you get! (P.S. Two for the price of one - I just told the first mate about your request and she says: It would be crazy to spend 20,000 pounds his first boat. He's got to get something from 17 to 23 feet long about 2,000 pounds or 3,000 pounds, swim around for a year, see how gets on, he'll have loads of fun and then he'll have a very good idea of what he wants and prefers and decide what he really wants to want spend your 20,000 pounds on.') Little boats with good seakeeping Thank you Kesh for pointing me to your thread that I have not seen. Pretty many of the boats listed here meet my requirements for good marine life, easily alone, beaming and stable, about 26ft and under 20k - although I also need to be able to dry. Don't think I'll try any oceans, but like Hurley 22 (which also made some substantial flights) that I sail at the moment I want something that takes care of me when it gets rough. Still mulling over the content of these streams, but current front runners Sadler 26, Moody 27, Hunter Horizon 26 and 273 and Westerly Griffon. Further offers are very welcome here or (P.S. Two for the price of one - I just told the first mate about your request and she says: It would be crazy to spend 20,000 pounds on his first boat. swim around for a year, see how gets on, he'll have loads of fun, and then he'll have a very good idea of what he wants and prefers, and decide that he really wants to spend his 20K on. and I'm not sure I like it. so to get one I could live on board option I seriously think of Shane Acton did well with his 18 Mark 1 Caprice - he even hung and Woolworths inflatables for parts of cirumnavigation! Not to mention a Swedish girlfriend who was almost as big as him! Yes, my current boat is 1979 Moody 33, and it costs considerably less than 20k and as capnsensible says I would be happy to cross the Atlantic in it - I just resumed skinfitting for toilet sockets and grp at that point was 1 thick - very reassuring. Didn't Primrose drown when one of his 33s fell? Don't forget the Macwesters Atlanta 28 is certainly recorded as making the transition, and in a reasonable time frame: - must be better than mine, and no doubt its was less than 34 years old! Khurelli 22; Hurley 30, Hurley 9.5; Sivereign 32 (expensive though); Elizabeth 30 .. Necessarily; Javelin 30...pretty but long overhangs are so limited placement; Dufort Arpeg; Albin Balad...... His obituary says 33. wondering what happened to get him to give up. I always thought it was 33s as well. A friend had one, and I helped him sail to the Canary Islands. Very solid boats, very roomy, and probably a good choice as a cheap accommodate liveaboard, but overall I personally wouldn't choose one for a long ocean holiday. Didn't see the curve for them, but I suspect there may be a largish area under the curve, and the flat forward sections mean they can slam going windward. A very clever location of the accommodation, though, with a panels to close a quarter in the cockpit afta. - W W twenty small sailboats to take you anywhere pdf. twenty small sailboats to take you anywhere list. twenty small sailboats to take you anywhere by john vigor

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