House of Commons Culture, Media and Sport Committee
London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games
Oral evidence
Tuesday 15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Chairman, Paul Deighton, Chief Executive, London Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic Games, John Armitt CBE, Chairman, and Dennis Hone, Chief Executive, Olympic Delivery Authority
Ordered by the House of Commons to be printed 15 November 2011
HC 689-iv Published on 7 March 2012 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £5.50
The Culture, Media and Sport Committee
The Culture, Media and Sport Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration and policy of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport and its associated public bodies.
Current membership Mr John Whittingdale MP (Conservative, Maldon) (Chair) Dr Thérèse Coffey MP (Conservative, Suffolk Coastal) Damian Collins MP (Conservative, Folkestone and Hythe) Philip Davies MP (Conservative, Shipley) Paul Farrelly MP (Labour, Newcastle-under-Lyme) Louise Mensch MP (Conservative, Corby) Steve Rotheram MP (Labour, Liverpool, Walton) Mr Adrian Sanders MP (Liberal Democrat, Torbay) Jim Sheridan MP (Labour, Paisley and Renfrewshire North) Mr Tom Watson MP (Labour, West Bromwich East)
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List of witnesses
Tuesday 15 November 2011 Page
Lord Sebastian Coe, Chairman, Paul Deighton, Chief Executive, London Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic Games, John Armitt CBE, Chairman, and Dennis Hone, Chief Executive, Olympic Delivery Authority Ev 46
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Ev 46 Culture, Media and Sport Committee: Evidence
Tuesday 15 November 2011
Members present: Mr John Whittingdale (Chair)
Dr Thérèse Coffey Mr Adrian Sanders Philip Davies Jim Sheridan Mrs Louise Mensch Mr Tom Watson Steve Rotheram ______
Examination of Witnesses
Witnesses: Lord Sebastian Coe, Chairman, London Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic Games, Paul Deighton, Chief Executive, London Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic Games, John Armitt CBE, Chairman, Olympic Delivery Authority, and Dennis Hone, Chief Executive, Olympic Delivery Authority, gave evidence.
Q262 Chair: Good morning. Before we start I would Landscaping, of course, we continue to work around like to express the sadness of the Committee at the and will continue to work around that as Seb death of our friend and colleague Alan Keen. Alan completes his works and then we will probably go was the longest serving member of this Committee back in and tidy up. We continue to be closely and he will be greatly missed, and we send our involved in transport, although there again we are condolences to his family. handing across, in a sense, the planning aspects of This is a further session of the Committee’s transport and the work that we have done in thinking examination of preparations for the London 2012 about what is required to the actual operational phase Olympic and Paralympic Games. It is an annual of that to Peter Hendy in particular, who is session we have and I would like to welcome this increasingly taking the lead on transport and its actual morning Lord Coe, the Chairman of LOCOG, Paul operational aspects in London—the planning of the Deighton, the Chief Executive, John Armitt, the operations against the overall plan. People say, “Well, Chairman of the Olympic Delivery Authority, and you must be nearly finished”. Yes, we are nearly Dennis Hone, the Chief Executive. Perhaps you could finished but we still have quite a lot of work to do and just give a brief summary of where we are now and are having to just keep our eye on the ball for the how you see the state of play in the remaining six remaining months, and supporting LOCOG obviously months before the Games. in the work that they are doing on the park. We hand Lord Coe: If I may, just before we get into it, also over the park itself in January, from a control and express our sadness at the loss of a valued member of security point of view, to LOCOG as well. your Committee and a very strong personal friend to this whole project. Alan was with us at the very outset, Q263 Chair: Can I just ask you, what is your current he was with us throughout the delivery phase and was estimate of the amount of the £9.3 billion that will be one of those politicians who did look like he enjoyed left to return to Treasury? being at sport and—wearing just a particular hat—he John Armitt: Our current amount is the amount that was of course Chair of the All Party Parliamentary we last declared, which is the £870 million, but as I Athletics Group. So we share in your sadness this say we are continuing to push down on that and morning. hopefully we can find some further savings over the John Armitt: As far as the ODA are concerned, we next few months. We only like to release that when we are now well over 90% through our scope of works. are really confident that we have something to release. All the main stadia are completed. We have some Lord Coe: Very briefly and just picking up work still to do to finish the artillery barracks; we immediately from John, we are massively scaling up have some work to do to finish the water polo stadium the organisation. I think we are recruiting at about 120 and the Olympic Village itself. We are in the final people a month. We are currently a work force of throes of that but we expect to complete that by the about 2,000. Over the next nine months we will be end of this year, ready to hand over to LOCOG at the reaching 6,000, so clearly quality and thresholds are end of January. So we are on track with the village. very important there. Also we have the venues to We continue to bear down on our costs. We have £870 complete. You have been to the Olympic Park but million of savings from the budget so far. We remain there is a mountain of work to do making sure that very aware of the fact that we have had a good safety they are all operationally integrated, turning those record so far. We are very concerned that we keep that magnificent venues into theatres of sport, and that is through to the end and, as ever, the difficulty of doing a Herculean amount of effort. Of course, it's a that becomes greater as you get towards the end and question of testing, testing, testing. For me it is a very perhaps people take their eye off the ball a bit. So we simple analogy. I never wanted to go into any continue to have a very strong focus on safety. Olympic final and be thrown something I had not been For us, there is still a lot to do, however. We are laying thrown or dealt with a thousand times before on the lots and lots of tarmac at the moment, and that will training track. That is exactly what we are going continue, to prepare the areas for Seb’s team, for through at the moment. I think we have done 18 or 19 LOCOG’s team, for their back-of-house activities. test events; we will have 42 altogether, and not just cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [O] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:11] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
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15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone testing the field of play. We have many other venues coming in from the European Union but we obviously that are non-completion, which we must make sure have practices and we work with all of the contractors operate properly. Clearly budget is important—our to try and make sure that they are paid at the London ability to maintain a balanced budget and also to drive living wage. down costs at all time, which means good, smart procurement practices. Of course, this is a process of Q268 Jim Sheridan: You try and make sure? engagement and excitement. We have a lot of things, Dennis Hone: Yes. It is not mandatory within our like the torch relay, that will really kick off that contractual arrangements but we have put a huge process, I believe, in an extraordinary way in May amount of effort into ensuring that contractors would next year. honour the London living wage. It is that long process of making sure that people recognise this is a London-based project but, of Q269 Jim Sheridan: So you could have people course, it has to have salience and relevance for working on the site for less than the minimum wage? people around the United Kingdom. That is always a Dennis Hone: Not the minimum wage, the London challenge and I think it is one we have met pretty well. living wage. Q264 Chair: Are you confident that you will be able Q270 Mr Watson: Seb, it was really reassuring that to cover the cost of the Games without recourse to you got the private sector fully on board with this, but the taxpayer? Lord Coe: Yes. can I ask you a question arising from a comment from the previous Transport Secretary about the Games lanes. He was critical of some of the sponsors who Q265 Chair: Is that a guarantee that you can now give? have been given exclusive access to the Games lanes Lord Coe: You know the nature of the organisation when he said their hotels were on public transport and the structure that we have in place. We work very routes. Could you comment on that? collaboratively, very closely with 19 Government Lord Coe: The Games lanes are drawn up and clearly Departments and agencies that are helping us to identified in the host city contract. Sponsors made deliver that, but our ability to raise the money from their contribution of over £1 billion to deliver these the private sector, through probably the teeth of the Games and some access, not in total but some access, worst recession that any Olympic Games since the to those Games lanes is what has always been 1970s has been delivered in, gives me confidence that accepted during the Olympic process. we will meet those budgetary requirements. Paul Deighton: We are working with all the different client groups to identify, even those that may have Q266 Jim Sheridan: When you say good, smart access to the lanes, where point-to-point public procurement practices, that sometimes worries me. transport is available, pointing out to them that Can you tell me how many indigenous people you probably it is a quicker way to get to where they are have employed, as a percentage? going anyway. So we are doing that. Paul Deighton: As Seb said, our current work force Lord Coe: There is a very good example of that. If is about 2,400. It is predominantly a UK work force. you look, for instance, at some of the International For example, over 20% of them are resident in the Federations and some of the sponsors, they are going host boroughs. We do not break it down by nationality to be in hotels in and around St Pancras, King’s Cross. but it is predominantly a British work force. My own federation, the International track and field federation, is at the Renaissance Hotel in King’s Q267 Jim Sheridan: The reason I ask you that is Cross. It is six minutes from there to the Olympic because the last time you were here you were asked Stadium. So I think, as always happens in Games a question about the building department. There was cities, people will make judgments about what is the anecdotal evidence about construction workers who easiest way, and public transport offers extraordinary were being imported from Eastern Europe and opportunities within London. exploited. You said then that you would go away and look at it, and we've never ever heard anything back Q271 Mr Watson: I do not know whether you get since. So now I am asking just a simple question: how black cabs these days. many indigenous—and by indigenous I mean Lord Coe: Yes, I do, regularly. British—workers are employed on this site, or will Mr Watson: Do you, like me, get comments from be employed? cab drivers... Paul Deighton: That is probably one for ODA. Lord Coe: But only for the last 40 years! Dennis Hone: Can I just pick up on the construction Mr Watson:..who say it is disgraceful they are going side, if I may? We have had about 44,000 people work to thrown off these Games lanes and— on the park. Clearly some of them worked for long Lord Coe: It may be helpful for the Committee for periods and some for short periods, but when you do me to set this out. The Olympic Route Network is a snapshot—in June we looked at the total numbers about 109 miles of London roads, so about 1%. The and where they came from on the site—about 25% lanes are about a third of that. We will not be allowing came from the local host boroughs where the Games taxis into the Games Lanes, but they will have access are, around 62% were from London as a whole and to the rest of the Network. Other than effectively the around 90%1 were from the UK. There are people lane that runs down the Embankment through to East 1 Witness correction: 64% London that allows the connectivity for all the client cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:11] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
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15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone groups, taxis will be able to access everything they Q277 Mr Sanders: I am looking forward to the next want within London. taxi ride where the driver says, “I had that Lord Coe in the back of my cab”. Q272 Mr Watson: What these cab drivers tell me is Lord Coe: I am sure we can sell tickets for that one. they are all going to go on holiday during the Mr Sanders: Prior to the start of the Games, how Olympics because London is going to grind to a halt. are you planning to test the resilience of the transport With the combination of fares going up 7% on public network to cope with several events taking place transport, the cab drivers that talk to me are saying simultaneously? there is going to be a big reputational damage to the Dennis Hone: In terms of testing the network, we are Games. Are you confident that that will not be the working with TfL, clearly, in London and we have case? been using events that have taken place to date. So Lord Coe: I refute that. First of all, this is not the where we have had test events we have used them message, of course. London is not closed, it is open to learn how transport works—whether it is by the for business, and that would be entirely the wrong Highways Agency on the roads or TfL—how the tube message given what else London offers to the 800,000 network works, how spectators get in and out of those or 1 million tourists coming into London. Secondly, test events and the impacts on the surrounding as I made very clear, taxis are able to use the vast community. So we have been looking at those. Some majority of London roads. It is really just the pressure examples are down at ExCeL, where they ran the on that Games Lane: the athletes, the media, those WorldSkills event. We looked at how the DLR would people working, the technical officials. The operate and we put in place the routings that people reputational damage to this city is at its highest if we will use during the Games time. We used the Westfield can’t get those client groups round London quickly, opening at Stratford to look at how the systems and to those events that they are either competing in worked down there. So there is a series of events and or managing for us. they will go on through the year to test individual Paul Deighton: Transport for London meets with the aspects of the system. In May there are going to be taxi trade every month. They have already met a major test events on the Olympic Park and we will number of their concerns, for example on where there look at how they work and, as I say, the egress and were to have been restrictions on turns, and they will access of all of the people going to the park and how be putting together packs for the taxi trade and all they get on to the network, queuing times, how the private hire drivers just so they understand how the queues are managed, all of those things. So we are city will work at Games-time and how they can go working hand in glove with TfL to go through a whole about their business. range of events and test events to look at how transport will work. Q273 Mr Watson: The London Taxi Drivers Association is threatening disruptive action. Is that Q278 Mr Sanders: What are the latest detailed threat still there? estimates of extra capacity demand at peak stations? Lord Coe: My honest observation to that? I sincerely Is there any amendment to the estimate of 30%? hope not, because I think that would be an Dennis Hone: The 30% estimate was an estimate that extraordinary route to take during a celebration of said at certain times in certain places there would be this city. a loading of around 30% extra. That is obviously because of the number of visitors that are coming to Q274 Mr Watson: But you are not aware whether or London at that point in time. But I would stress to the not they are still threatening disruption? Committee that it is not everywhere in London, it is Lord Coe: No. These are discussions, as Paul quite only in certain hotspots. The whole focus of the work rightly said, that take place, and appropriately, that TfL are doing, and we are working with them, is between Transport for London and the taxi companies. on travel demand management, working with businesses, giving them information around where Q275 Mr Watson: Given the serious reputational those hotspots are and how people can maybe stagger harm that it might do to the Games, though, do you their working days or work from home, or how they not think that you should be meeting them? can change their business arrangements to help reduce Lord Coe: I have met the taxi organisations. I had a background demand. We are in the process of doing working breakfast with many of the tourist groups, the that. Also in terms of the work we are doing with theatre owners, the cinema owners, just last week spectators who are coming to the Games, there is a where I made exactly this point. So it is very journey planner facility. You can go through the online important that taxis are not being disadvantaged in journey planner now. You can book your tickets now this process. They are not being given access to one in terms of your transport arrangements and that will lane because that lane is absolutely crucial. It is the take you on a route that hopefully will avoid some of lifeline for these Games. those transport hotspots so that we can smooth the demand across the network. Q276 Mr Watson: So just to confirm, you would be extremely concerned if they carried out their threat Q279 Mr Sanders: So is the 30% figure a figure of disruption? overall, and therefore it is over 30% in hotspots, or is Lord Coe: I would be concerned if anybody carried the 30% figure just the hotspots? out a threat of disruption during an Olympic Games Dennis Hone: It is 30% in the hotspots to the best of that is tough enough to organise as it is. my knowledge, looking at those. So, for instance, on cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [O] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:11] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
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15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone the Jubilee line between London Bridge and Canary the UK. How many tickets have been returned from Wharf you will have overcapacity, but that is why we the IOC, or from any other National Olympic are working with business and others to see how we Committee for that matter? can reduce some of the demand during the Games Lord Coe: At this point, none. time. It is really at peak times. It is not for the entirety of the day, it is at peak times with events starting in Q285 Steve Rotheram: It was not a huge success? the morning or in the evenings. Lord Coe: Well, it was a good try.
Q280 Mr Sanders: In the same sort of field, what Q286 Steve Rotheram: In regard to ticketing per se, measures have been put in place to give directions to would you say that the ticketing policy has been a people in foreign languages, to avoid people walking success? around in circles trying to get on the right train, bus Lord Coe: Yes. and so on? Dennis Hone: There is a volunteer force and the Q287 Steve Rotheram: These are much quicker Mayor is putting in place ambassadors. I know TfL answers than I envisaged. I have read Lord Coe’s are looking at all of the signage and how that will testimony in the past and it is normally quite work, but there will be a huge number of people on loquacious. platforms, on the main line rail stations and on the Lord Coe: I am very happy to elucidate on that. Have tube network to make sure that people are pointed in we met our budgetary requirements for that? Yes. the right direction. Have we got a good chunk of them out at affordable Paul Deighton: I think a lot of the signage does not prices, two thirds of them at £50 or less? Yes, I think depend on language ability because it will be done in we met that. The first question from the Chairman terms of colours and pictograms representing the is always the appropriate one about the budget and sports, which should communicate themselves Government guarantees. Ticketing is about a quarter universally. That is the broad thrust of the approach. of our budget and it is very important. I know that we had the kind of demand for tickets that has never been Q281 Mr Sanders: What are the proposed locations witnessed in any ticket application in any area of for the park and ride car parks near the M25? activity anywhere in the world, so it is within those Dennis Hone: I can’t do that one off the top of my caveats. I do accept that there was some head. I know that there is one at the Herts disappointment, of course. When 1.9 million people Showground, I know there is one at Lakeside, but apply for over 22 million tickets you are immediately obviously if the Committee are interested in that I can into areas of disappointment. Those numbers do write to you and give you the actual locations. So indicate straight away that there are challenges in that. there are a number dotted around the parks to make To answer your question as succinctly as I can, yes, I sure that people can get in. do think that the ticket application process—and where we have got to—was successful. Q282 Mr Sanders: I think we would also be interested in knowing what the approximate estimated Q288 Steve Rotheram: Despite the fact that 1 costs are of setting them up. million people have been unsuccessful? Dennis Hone: As you will appreciate, I can’t do that Paul Deighton: Yes, you are right, 1.9 million one off the top of my head but I certainly can write to applied. After the first round ballot and then the the Committee and lay out where they are. What I second chance sales that we immediately put in place would say is that in terms of arrangements for the afterwards, about 850,000 of those got tickets. On Games we now have all the lease arrangements in average they got between four and five tickets and place for the park and ride. We have signed spent about £275. There are just over 3.5 million contractual arrangements with the operators for the people who have tickets to go to the Games and you park and ride and, in addition to park and ride, we are will find a lot of the people who applied who did not running direct coach services to and from the park as get tickets were partners of the ones who applied and well. So we have put in place a whole raft of transport did. So you can look through the numbers. arrangements in addition to the facilities that would What Seb and I have both promised is that in future normally be there. releases of tickets, which will happen in April for all the sports that sold out—25 Olympic sports that sold Q283 Mr Sanders: My final question is, what are out—those 1 million will have some priority access. those park and ride areas going to be used for after So we made a promise at the time that we would get the Olympics? as many of those 1.9 million, because they are really Dennis Hone: They are temporary. Most of them are our longest standing, most committed fans for the existing facilities. The two examples I have given you, Games, as many tickets as we could. So we have tried, the Lakeside Shopping Centre and the Herts given the enormous demand and the limited supply of Showground, are going to go back to their former tickets, to give as many people who really wanted a uses. They are only being used on a very temporary ticket a chance to get that ticket. On top of that we basis. have, of course, football tickets, which was the only sport not fully sold out. We sold about 500,000 Q284 Steve Rotheram: Lord Coe, in July you urged football tickets, which was more tickets than we sold the IOC to return any unallocated, unwanted tickets for any other sport, so that, in fact, was very so that they could be made available for purchase in successful but we have over 1.5 million left. They are cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:11] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
Ev 50 Culture, Media and Sport Committee: Evidence
15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone going to go on sale on 29 November on a first come, Paul Deighton: I always try and look on the positive first served basis. Of course, at this stage we know, side. So it is 8,815 they ordered and there are a variety for example, where Team GB are going to play their of uses. One is obviously to promote the country. It is first three group games. The 500,000 we have sold so the greatest thing happening in our city in our lifetime, far is really without anybody knowing what team they all that sort of thing, and it is a great chance to are going to see. It is quite an extraordinary promote Great Britain, and you would expect the achievement to sell that many tickets to games where Government to be doing that. There are some that the you could not identify the teams. So that is the Government is using around the country to make sure soccer tickets. that the people involved at the borough and city levels Then the other chunk of tickets is the Paralympic can promote their own venues, and then there is a tickets. We had about 2 million to sell. It is quite portion—which is not paid for by the taxpayer—for unprecedented—there is nothing that compares to the the people in the Government working on the Games success of the Paralympic ticket sales this far out— and they will pay for them themselves. So there are we have sold just over 1 million of them, a three basic tranches there. But I do not expect any of combination of about 850,0002 to the UK public and them to come back. a couple of hundred thousand to the client groups around the world. That c900,000 set of Paralympic Q293 Jim Sheridan: Just on the Team GB, if the tickets will go on sale on 2 December. So you other football associations do not play ball, so to essentially have three ways to buy some more tickets: speak, will we still go ahead with a Team GB made the soccer tickets on 29 November, the Paralympic up of only England players? tickets on 2 December, and then we have a million or Lord Coe: I believe that is the case. You would have so tickets that will get released from April through to to ask that of the British Olympic Association and the Games time as we firm up the seating for the other four home associations but that is what I believe has sports. About two thirds of them, I would imagine, been agreed. will come on sale in April. That batch is being made available on a priority basis to those who were Q294 Mr Watson: Would it be possible to give us unsuccessful, who applied in that first round ballot, to the data on what Departments have ordered what try and make sure we make as many of our customers tickets for what events? as happy as possible. Paul Deighton: I think that the DCMS did that in Steve Rotheram: That's much clearer; thank you response to an FOI so I think that is all available. very much. Q295 Steve Rotheram: Can I just ask in regards to Q289 Jim Sheridan: I do not know if the Chair is as the preferential purchase scheme that some civil confused as I am. This 1.9 million people for 23 servants have obviously qualified for if they have had million, could you explain that to me? the years of service for that, do LOCOG or the ODA Paul Deighton: Yes. Call it 2 million, because it is a staff benefit in a similar way? round number, and call it 20 million, so on average Dennis Hone: Shall I start with the ODA? We are part people applied for 10 tickets. of the Government scheme and individual members of staff who have worked for us for a certain period of Q290 Jim Sheridan: I thought there was a limit on time will be able to get two tickets through a ballot how many tickets you could apply for? and then they have to pay for those two tickets. People Paul Deighton: There was, but it was more than 10. who have worked for substantial time on this project That is a couple of events for a five-person family. will get, as you say, the ability to get two tickets. We did not take any tickets for ceremonies. If I give my Q291 Jim Sheridan: How confident are you that you personal position, I have two tickets to women’s will have a true GB soccer team and not just an basketball on a Friday afternoon on the park. They England team? are £35 tickets and I have written a cheque for £70 Lord Coe: That is a matter for the British Olympic for them. Association and the four home associations. I am Lord Coe: Could I have them back? confident we will have a Great Britain soccer team but the composition and constitution of that is very Q296 Dr Coffey: Just following on with tickets, are much a matter for those organisations. you concerned about the slow uptake of the corporate hospitality tickets being sold by Prestige? Q292 Steve Rotheram: It was recently reported that Paul Deighton: No, because it is precisely where their the Government had purchased nearly 9,000 tickets at projected plan expected them to be, which is just a cost of around £750,000 to the taxpayer. Is there a around 40%. mechanism for these tickets to be returned if they are not sold? Q297 Dr Coffey: Following on from that, Paul Deighton: I think the Government ordered the anecdotally I have heard there are certain sponsors tickets on the basis that they knew what they wanted and other companies who are worried about the to do with them, so the number was derived from Bribery Act and gifting hospitality to people, knowing how they were going to use the tickets. especially people involved in procurement. Has that Steve Rotheram: You should never give that much been raised with you at any point? credit to the Government. Paul Deighton: Yes, it has. You are absolutely right 2 Witness correction: 800,000. that as a result companies offering hospitality have cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [O] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:11] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
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15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone been particularly careful about the rules they will with local media groups and local education follow and how it will be offered, which has certainly authorities, and many of your colleagues have been slowed down some of their plans but it has not extraordinarily helpful in helping us do that. prevented them from putting a hospitality plan in Paul Deighton: I think if we had one message to the place. Committee, it is, please help us. The deadline is 16 December. Q298 Dr Coffey: Building on that, it seems a barrier. I do not know if it is a genuine one or a perceived Q302 Jim Sheridan: I am wondering about the risk. Have you or DCMS spoken with the Ministry of practicalities for schools north of the Watford Gap. Justice on this particular matter? How do they get here, travel, accommodation, and Paul Deighton: No, because it seems to me the who pays for it? balance is about right. It has made companies stop and Paul Deighton: Of course there are events around the think very carefully about how they offer corporate country too, the football tournament for example. hospitality but none the less they have come up with workable approaches, so it seems to me the balance is Q303 Jim Sheridan: If somebody wanted to come to about right. London to watch it, how do they get here? Who pays for their accommodation and so on? Q299 Dr Coffey: LOCOG had planned to give away Paul Deighton: Yes, that is something they would 100,000 free tickets to schoolchildren across the UK have to arrange, you are right, so it is potentially a using the levy on the hospitality packages. If there is constraint. only going to be a very late rush, how will you work out how you are going to give away how many tickets Q304 Jim Sheridan: So that would be left to the to schoolchildren? schools themselves to organise? Paul Deighton: I think we will be happy to base our Paul Deighton: Yes. Get Set programme, which is in total 175,000 tickets, to schoolchildren on the assumption that the 40% will Q305 Steve Rotheram: Chair, just to say how they continue to follow the plan. can help us to help them—if we could get a possible breakdown of schools by constituency, first of all Q300 Dr Coffey: So you will stand by it even if they those who have signed up and then see who has do not reach those sales targets? gone further. Paul Deighton: Yes. Dr Coffey: To be fair, there is a website. It does not Lord Coe: We do need schools in all your do it by constituency but it does it by local authority. constituencies to sign up to the Get Set programme. It Lord Coe: If any of you want some help with this, we is the Get Set programme and the network that gives have an education team that will come in at any stage them access to the six tickets throughout the UK, and and help you structure some of this. in London one in eight London schoolchildren. Q306 Dr Coffey: At the moment 7,406 schools, Q301 Dr Coffey: That brings me neatly on to my according to your website, are part of the Get Set next question. I have written to all my schools twice network. So they are in the bonanza for something encouraging them to get involved. Do you think it has like 15 tickets each, if not more, depending if you are been lower than expected? There has been a lot of in London. I think if you are in London there are more schools registering. I don’t have the national figure tickets, aren’t there, through the Mayor’s scheme? So but I think across the board over 80% of schools have there is great opportunity for everyone. registered. Going on to be part of the Get Set network I am now going to move slightly off that and on to itself has been considerably lower—it is high in the torch relay. I am sure we have all had a letter from London, but if I take the east of England, 27.4% of Lloyds encouraging our schools to apply to be flame schools have moved on and in Suffolk it is lower. I bearers or something like that. But the deadline for am wondering what have been the barriers, in your that is this Friday. view, between the two? Lord Coe: They are one of our presenting partners. Lord Coe: It has been varied. Both Paul and I spend Dr Coffey: I have to admit I was ecstatic when I a lot of our time on what we call our Nations and discovered I have 10 stops in my constituency where Regions engagement programmes. In fact, I think we people have the chance to do it, but I have already have probably visited most of the constituencies or started having the emails, which I am sure many regions represented around this table at one stage or Members of Parliament have had, saying, “Why is it another. We have encouraged schools to do that. I going there and not coming here when we are much think we have something like 20,000 schools in total bigger?” Could you just explain a little bit more: say that are involved in the Get Set programme, slightly they are going to a village of 100 people but not going fewer in network. Network is demanding. These were to the town nearby of 5,000 people, so we can do a not giveaway confetti awards; we did ask schools that bit more of a— qualified for network to do something that they would Lord Coe: I think it is important to point out that not normally have done had the Games not been here, obviously, we did not do this on a constituency by Olympic and Paralympic. I have been blown away by constituency basis. the quality of what I have seen done on a daily basis in Dr Coffey: No, I just hit the jackpot. schools. But, yes, you are right, there has been some Lord Coe: If you remember, when I came before the regional variation in that. We have worked quite hard Committee before I think I said we had an overall cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:11] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
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15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone objective of getting the torch to 95% of the population centre, which will be a world-class training centre within an hour’s journey time. We have improved on during the Games and will become a focus for that. We have done it to within 10 miles. You are gymnastics in London post the Games. He is the sort right: this is 70 days, there are 8,000 torch bearers, of person who ought to be running with the torch. roughly 8,000 miles, and we are going to 1,018 towns, We were very clear, we wanted this to be about young villages and cities. This has been a two-year process. people, young people’s endeavours, to probably break We set up our torch relay advisory group; many of the down some of the tabloid misconceptions about what movers and shakers in your own constituencies and is happening in the lives of young people in this certainly the regions have helped us with that. The country. So about half of those torch bearers will be journey has been assessed on any number of indices: between 12 and 24, but we were very keen to make clearly operational, our ability to meet the 95% sure that in the overnight stops it gave communities a objective; clearly security; and clearly some of the chance to celebrate those people, the volunteer operational objectives about the stops, which give us organisations, sporting, artistic, cultural, that make up an opportunity to celebrate but also to move on to the the fabric of those communities. I think we have gone next group. So it is a very complex process and I am a long way towards those objectives. sure that you will have had e-mails, as I have, from people who would have liked the torch to have Q310 Philip Davies: Thérèse might have hit the stopped or gone through. It has not been possible, but jackpot but I was reflecting on the fact that, not half I do think we have met the overall objective over 70 as much as the Government have hit the jackpot. They days of getting this torch to as many as we possibly applied for 8,815 tickets and they appear to have been could. allocated 8,815 tickets. How did they manage to do that? Q307 Dr Coffey: I hear there are reports of Dublin— Paul Deighton: We treated the Government like a tier I have been told it is definitively going to Dublin. Are one sponsor, although in fact it was allocated less you allowed to say? tickets than that. So the 8,815 does not come from the Lord Coe: What I can say is that we are in advanced 6.6 million—the 75% of tickets that remain available conversations. As you would understand, I do not for the UK public. It comes out of the 2.2 million want to go into particular details. I have spent a lot of tickets that have been set aside for the variety of time on this, both in Northern Ireland and in different clients who have access to tickets. It seemed conversations with the Republic. From a personal to us that the party they were most equivalent to was perspective, I would like to see just a small visit south a sponsor. They are a big stakeholder, a big delivery of the border. You would understand that these are partner from taxpayers clearly providing a lot of complex discussions, but it is our ambition to do this. money, so we thought that was the right comparison. Dr Coffey: I think it would be fantastic if it did, By way of comparison, in past Games the personally. Government has generally had control over significant Lord Coe: I think it would speak eloquently and numbers of tickets. powerfully for sport. Q311 Philip Davies: There has been a lot of Q308 Dr Coffey: I have two final questions. When controversy, as I am sure you are aware, from local will torch bearers who have gone through the and regional newspapers about the allocation of press interview process so far find out? The second question accreditations for them. It seemed to start off at four, is, will the road route be detailed between stops or are of which half were Scottish newspapers, and then it you planning not to try to do that? has gone up to somewhere fewer than 20. I was just Lord Coe: The torch bearers that have applied will wondering what the latest situation was and whether have a conditional notification in about December and or not there would be a higher allocation for regional then they will know finally and fully in February. The and local papers. more granular street-by-street detail will come Lord Coe: I will take this. If I lay out the landscape through nearer the time of the relay for obvious just briefly. The British Olympic Association is, of reasons, because we are still working on that and there course, responsible for the allocation of UK accredited are other considerations. media. The International Olympic Committee awarded them about 400 accreditations, which is far Q309 Dr Coffey: Are you anticipating a Tour de more than any host city has received before. That is France kind of atmosphere with people— far higher than anything that has happened before. Lord Coe: I really hope so. I was very clear about two There were about 3,000 applications for some 400 things. I wanted the nomination process to be clear, places and those places have been judged by, and the and I think it is. I wanted it to throw up people who BOA quite rightly set up, a group of expert writers, were deserving of recognition. As a very good Olympic writers, photographers—people who example, I nominated somebody called Len Arnold. understand that landscape. The criteria were about He is a gymnastics coach in South London—his wife frequency of publication; this is more about Athletics competed in the Munich Games—he set up a club, he Weekly than Caravan Monthly. It was about the nature got into difficulties and he sold his house to keep the of that media, the amount of editorial coverage that club going. He now has a club with about 1,700 they give over the four years to the Olympic Games. people: gymnasts, boxers, weightlifters. With So that is where we have got to. The IOC appointed generosity from the local authority and the Olympic the Press Association as the national host news Delivery Authority, he now has a world-class training agency, and the Press Association have the cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [O] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:11] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
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15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone responsibility of servicing local and regional press explaining the planning process and where we are in during the Games. They are committed to—they have that now, because I think that will help everybody to made a very strong commitment that is an important understand where we are. Before you can in detail one for our participation agenda here—supporting the and with accuracy define the security, and indeed the performance of every British athlete competitor, transport requirements, you need to have a very clear whether they go out in the first round or make it plan for the event itself. That is where all the work in through to a medal. So I think that is where the the early years of this project has been focused, balance is and that is the landscape. looking at exactly what the sporting venue portfolio will be, and that was finalised at the beginning of this Q312 Philip Davies: On that last point, because that year, working out exactly what the sporting appears to be the crucial point to me, if we are going competition schedule will be—we have over 1,000 to get this sporting legacy where we have people who different sessions: 600-odd for the Olympic Games, are inspiring young people to want to get involved in 300-odd for the Paralympic Games—and how that sport, it seems to me that is much more likely to be forms part of the schedule with the 18 days of sport done at the local level than at the national level, in of the Olympics, 11 days break and then another 10 terms of having local sporting heroes. Are you or 11 days of the Paralympics. Then there is how the concerned that if this is not got right it could impact transport and the accommodation network works on the local media being able to give proper coverage around that, so you understand the flows of people to their local champions? and what they are going to be doing. It is only when Lord Coe: I do not think it is going to stop the local you have a clear plan around those things that can you media giving proper coverage to their local plan with any real certainty the security overlay that champions. I think back to my own career. I was an you need to put in place to protect that event that you Olympic athlete; I was based in Sheffield. Those then have a clear understanding that you are trying to relationships with my local media were cemented 10, run. That plan has crystallised through the course of 12 years before I got to my final Olympic Games. this year. So it did not prevent them—a good example, I was The threat level, of course, has been set from the contracted at the time to write a diary for a national beginning at severe level. This is the first summer newspaper while I was in Moscow but my father Games that has ever been planned for under that kind wrote a diary, as a coach, for the Sheffield Morning Telegraph. So those relationships, if they are worked of threat level. The security forces are the ones who through properly at local level, work extraordinarily determine the security strategies and risk mitigation well. that you need to put around the venues and the people You are right: I accept that the longest and truest you need to protect—who drive what falls out of that, sponsor that most sports have is the local press which is then the security guarding that goes around coverage that is there year in, year out, day in, day the outside. We are now at the stage with the Home out, competition for competition. They tend not, like Office and the Government Olympic Executive of national press, to dip in and out when the story hits finalising an extremely detailed scope plan that comes the priority list. out of all that work I have just discussed and the costs that will flow from that. The Government is working Q313 Philip Davies: As you made clear, there are through its satisfaction with that scope and the variety lots of events taking place around the country, not just of sources of supply that could meet the man-guarding in London, so will the local media have access to the numbers that would be posted around the venues. events that are taking place in their part of the The test events, just to give you another bit of colour country? and background, that we have held during the summer Lord Coe: Certainly all the events that we have talked were very helpful to us, looking at how the spectator about like torch and volunteer programmes—yes, of and passenger spectator areas would work, because course they will. understanding how many people you can get in, how quickly, and how long they are held outside in queues, Q314 Philip Davies: Things like the football and the which potentially creates a vulnerability, was a very sailing, will the local media have access to the events important part of our planning. We learnt things like taking place? how to put people earlier in the queue to get people Lord Coe: I am presuming that is on the same basis. prepared to go through security to make the queue go Yes, it is on the same basis. quicker; should we have a cover over where that queue exists because people are, not surprisingly, Q315 Philip Davies: Can I ask about security at the much happier to take their coats off under cover when Games? The Secretary of State, when he came before it is raining? So the weather makes a huge difference the Committee, said his two main concerns were as to how quickly you can get the queues through. All transport, which we have covered, and security. I do that testing is just an example of one stream of work not know if that is the same for you, but can I ask that has gone into giving us what is now a clear, what the latest estimated cost is of securing the Games detailed plan for what we will need for Games time. venues, because it seems to be going up and up and up? Q316 Philip Davies: The Government allocated Paul Deighton: We are working through that at the originally £600 million for security costs and said that moment. There has been some speculation in the few they thought it should be able to be delivered for £475 days around this, so could I just spend a minute million. Is that going to be possible or are you going cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:11] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
Ev 54 Culture, Media and Sport Committee: Evidence
15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone to go above what the Government have allocated for security guards. What flows from our planning, for this? example, is that we know we need just in excess of Paul Deighton: That budget is the policing budget. 10 million hours of man guarding. You can meet those There is a separate venue security budget that was put 10 million hours from a variety of sources, and how in place to take care of this particular phenomenon many people you need is a function somewhat of the and, you are correct, that number will go up and the skills, background and training of the sources they work the Home Office and GOE are determining at come from. So there is likely to be a combination of the moment is to finalise that number. It will go up supply that goes to meet those 10 million hours. Some but it will fall within the overall £9.3 billion package, will be from the private security market, and all the which is why John was able to answer the Chairman’s discussion we have with G4S is based on numbers question in the affirmative at the beginning of the that they are confident in securing. There will also be session. a contribution from our volunteer force, because some of the jobs in security are susceptible to being done Q317 Philip Davies: What will be cut in the Olympic by volunteers. So, when I talked about quickening up budget in order to meet the increased security costs? the pedestrian screening areas, a job that a volunteer Paul Deighton: Remember, the Olympic budget can do is at the beginning of that queue basically say, initially had a £2.7 billion contingency to provide for “Okay, get your coat off. Have you got anything that unexpected developments. If you think about the needs to go through the X-ray machine?” to get them nature of this project, you have relatively high levels ready. So it is a welcome-cum-preparation job that a of certainty for things you do at the beginning, much volunteer is very well suited for. As you know—this lower levels of certainty for things you do at the end, has been reported—there have also been discussions which only become clear when you have developed between the Home Office and the MOD about what the other aspects of your planning. So, from a role the military might play in that supply mix too. So theoretical point of view, it is not surprising that the that all goes into the picture. uncertain elements get uncovered as you get towards the end of the project. Q320 Philip Davies: Is the fact that you have asked for these, apparently, 6,000 soldiers to help bolster Q318 Philip Davies: Just in terms of the policing, security a reflection of your lack of confidence in G4S one of the issues is that other parts of the country are getting the right number of people recruited in time? apparently going to be giving up their police officers Paul Deighton: No, not at all. It is a reflection of the to come and help police at the Olympics, which is fair fact that 10 million hours translates to something just enough on one level but we hear about all these events over 20,000 people, but of course it is only on peak that will be going in London—tea parties here, there days that you need that number. To put that in context, and everywhere, at Marble Arch and in Islington. I the police force for the Games, which is drawn from can understand that my police force might have to an existing organisation with huge experience, is give up some policing to police the Olympic Games pretty close to half of that so we need to mobilise a but surely we are not going to have to give up police large number. In our view, it is appropriate that we officers to police tea parties in Marble Arch when we should manage the risk of securing that by going to a have no policing for things up in our part of the world. range of sources and indeed, from my point of view, How is that going to work? having the option to call upon the military is a very Paul Deighton: The overall security arrangements for attractive option because they come fully trained and the Games, of course, are under the management of highly respected. I always draw the comparison of the Olympic Security Directorate, part of the Home Wimbledon. If you have visited Wimbledon and seen Office, who work very closely with the Met and all the role that the military plays in security there, it adds the other police forces to make sure that the in a very positive way to the experience of the event deployment of the police force around the country is and the confidence spectators have. So from a handled intelligently. What I can tell you about the qualitative point of view, of course it would be demand for policing around London is that we have attractive to have a military component and we see it tried to manage this very tightly. The sorts of events as a mix to deliver what is, by a long way, the biggest you are talking about, your example of the tea party, event that this country has ever seen. we define as a parallel event and the police, the transport authorities, the GLA under the Mayor’s Q321 Philip Davies: Given the recent shambles with supervision, have a very well managed and disciplined the UK Border Agency, can we be confident that you process to ensure that the number of these parallel are not going to be asking people to be waved through events is within the capacity of the resources you need quickly to stop them queuing, in order to get them to supervise them safely. through the thing as quickly as possible? Paul Deighton: You can take some confidence from Q319 Philip Davies: How confident are you that the fact that the reason these numbers are going up Group 4 Security will be able to recruit the number of and the reason this is at the end of a very detailed extra security guards now required and make sure that planning process is because we are determined that they all have the proper checks that are needed? the protection we offer at the venue perimeter is very, Paul Deighton: We are quite confident of that, very effective. although I should say one of the principal things that is under consideration from the Home Office at the Q322 Philip Davies: Have you asked that the Home moment is exactly the mix from different sources of Office have in place their e-Borders programme, their cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [O] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:11] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
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15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone
Authority to Carry programme that makes sure that Q326 Jim Sheridan: Just to follow on, surface-to-air people who are a threat do not even get to board a missiles and America, if they apply for anything like plane into the country? Have you agitated at all that that, or even to have armed guards for their athletes, they up their game in terms of these things for the I take it they would have to receive permission from Olympics? the UK Government to let it happen. Paul Deighton: Yes. It is not a question of the Paul Deighton: Yes. Olympics. Clearly you want our borders to be secure Lord Coe: It is entirely a matter for the Home Office. in the months and years leading up to the Olympics so that you know at the Olympics that you are secure. Q327 Chair: Can we turn to legacy matters, which, So we have to rely on the UKBA and the Home Office as you know, is something that has occupied the to manage those borders as we would want them to. Committee. Obviously the World Athletics What I can say is that we have worked extremely Championship is extremely good news and it means closely and collaboratively with the UKBA on the that the stadium is going to be absolutely full of entry procedures and protocols for the Olympic family athletes on that occasion. Apart from that there is the itself, which is a big group of people from overseas Diamond League Athletics Competition taking place coming to visit the Games, to make sure they can be twice a year, but how often do you expect to see the processed efficiently and effectively. The work they stadium used for athletics after the Games? have done with us has been, frankly, first class. They Lord Coe: You would probably have to ask the have been a very good partner under the leadership Olympic Park Legacy Company directly but my of Tony Smith who runs that part of their business understanding is that athletics within that mix has I for them. think 21, 22 days, including events, set up for its sport. But I think it is worth remembering that we never ever Q323 Philip Davies: My final question: it seems to described or aimed for a unique track and field facility be well known that the people who cut up rough most barring other sports, activities and entertainment. You about the security at the Olympic Games are the are right, the World Track and Field Championships Americans—that whatever you do it is never good in 2017, the world’s third largest sporting event enough for them. Have they expressed any concerns arriving here for nine or 10 days, is an extraordinary about the plans? Has anything been changed as a addition to that legacy story. But the other proposals— result of their feedback? Are they going to be allowed bringing in other tenancy partners, whether it is to send people over carrying weapons, as was football or whatever, and probably some reported, to protect their team during the Olympics? entertainment value and local community use—are Paul Deighton: No is the basic answer. This all something the Olympic Park Legacy Company has sprung up from an article in a newspaper yesterday. I now started, in a way afresh, since they cut through have the reply from the US Embassy, which sent a the legal challenges and the potential for those letter to the editor of the newspaper categorically challenges, fuelled by the taxpayer, to run on rejecting the characterisation in that article. I will indefinitely. The challenge, of course, is now making quote them here: “The United States Embassy has the sure that there is an integrated set of activities in that utmost confidence in the British Government’s stadium, with track and field as one of the core arrangements to ensure safety and security at the legacies. Olympic Games. The US has established an excellent collaborative relationship with the police.” So what Q328 Chair: It is OPLC who lead on that? was reported yesterday and followed up on today has Lord Coe: Yes. absolutely no basis in any experience I have had, and the Americans themselves have rejected it directly. Q329 Dr Coffey: You have not yet found a legacy Clearly they have a big team, they have serious tenant for the Media and Broadcast Centre. Why is it security concerns, so they will want to work with us proving so hard? to make sure it is effective. But as I say, and as they Lord Coe: Again, that really is a matter for the said, they are very happy with what we are doing and Olympic Park Legacy Company to answer. They are it is highly collaborative. in the lead role and directly responsible for legacy within the park. But I am sure Dennis may want to— Q324 Chair: Anti-aircraft missiles? Dennis Hone: If I can just answer that. I can tell you Paul Deighton: I never thought I would be sitting where they are at the moment. They went out and did anywhere answering questions on that, but yes—as some soft marketing and they got 45 expressions of the Secretary of State said yesterday, he was happy to interest for the Media and Broadcast Centre; they are confirm that there would some deployment as I out now formally looking for bids and the bids are understand it. due back by 2 December. I think we will be able to see what the level of interest is when they get those Q325 Chair: Are you confident that we are going to formal bids back. be able to sustain our requirements elsewhere in the world, given the large amount of defence forces that Q330 Dr Coffey: It is a big building. I believe the seem about to be deployed around London? nearest public transport is eight minutes on a North Paul Deighton: It really is not for me to answer. We London line, the overground station. Do you think that obviously will adjust our plans to ensure that the is one of the barriers to it being sold on? military complete their obligations elsewhere. We are Dennis Hone: It is in the north of the park, that is for not trying to put any undue pressure on them. sure, in the north-west of the park. It is right up cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:11] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
Ev 56 Culture, Media and Sport Committee: Evidence
15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone against the A12 and Hackney Wick is the nearest also in administrative jobs within construction, station. But, as I say, until we see the bids come back supervisory roles, that sort of thing. we can’t make a judgment on that. You are right in You have made a reference to the higher number of saying that other elements of the park are closer to women employed in white collar jobs, management Stratford. roles and so forth. What percentage of women are employed in non-construction jobs to which you have Q331 Mrs Mensch: I just have a couple of questions. just referred? You said there are a higher proportion How is the Olympic Delivery Authority doing on its of women involved in the management side and in targets for employing women in the delivery of the back-room functions. What is that proportion of Games and also for employing disabled people? women? John Armitt: We set ourselves targets at the outset for Dennis Hone: I can’t answer that one, but can I just both of these, along with other various targets that we add to the previous answer and then we will come set for the employment of all sorts of different groups. back to that? Where we have contractors coming on The two that have been the most challenging, you are to the park and their sub-contractors, they will have a quite right to highlight, are women and disability. In certain element to their work force that they move the case of women we are at about 3%3 and that is from job to job anyway, who are already employed by lower than clearly we would have liked. But we are the organisations. So where we can have maximum talking about women in the construction work force impact is in new roles that are created in those not women employed across the whole work force. industries. We ran job brokerage schemes with local There are much higher percentages of women authorities to take the sort of leadership that you were employed both in the management and in the back- talking about there. Where we put people through the room offices of all our organisations; but out in the job brokerage scheme we got 60% from BAME field wielding a hammer, the numbers are lower than people, we got 17% women coming into the we would have hoped to have persuaded to come in. construction industry on new jobs and we got 6% Having said that, some of our best apprentices at the disabled, which are all above our targets. So where younger age end of the scheme have been women we could influence the market we were doing very coming in to apprenticeships. well. The issue we had was that within the existing work force of the construction industry we found it Q332 Mrs Mensch: 3% is pretty terrible. What was very difficult to get them to change the composition your original target? of their teams. John Armitt: The original target was 7%4. Mrs Mensch: So that is less than half. Q334 Mrs Mensch: How are you doing in terms of John Armitt: But in terms of what you see in the meeting your target on the employment of disabled industry it is more like 1%, so we are doing a lot people? better than is the norm. We set an ambitious target and Dennis Hone: In terms of the overall target for I think it is simply that you can’t force women to say, disabled people, through the brokerage scheme we “Yes, I want to go and work in construction”; nor can were getting 6%. But we aimed for a target of 3% in you force employers to take people on who do not terms of disabled and we got 1%. So we were hitting have the necessary skills, which is why we focused to 6% where we could influence through the job quite a large extent on the apprenticeship side to see brokerage scheme, but for the total work force it was what we could do there. At the end of the day, I quite 1% against a target of 3%. happily acknowledge that the figure is not as great as one would have liked to see in terms of making that Q335 Mrs Mensch: This is to do with construction significant shift, but it is a significant shift away from companies importing their core work force into the the norm in construction. I have been in it all my life, job. What about those non-construction jobs in terms pretty well, one way and another, and you do not see of delivering the Olympics? women at the coalface of the construction industry in Paul Deighton: Thank you for bringing up this topic. any normal circumstance. What we have seen here is This is really important to us because in many respects an increase, a significant increase in the number. The the success of the Games is measured in terms of number is not as great as the target that was set at the everybody feeling that they are involved in it and in beginning. The target was ambitious. some way inspired by it. So, for me, our work on diversity and inclusion is the heartbeat of what we are Q333 Mrs Mensch: We expect leadership from the trying to deliver for the country. We try to apply it Olympics and we expect the Olympics and its delivery across our work force broadly—so the people who companies to be an organisation that challenges work for LOCOG, our Games makers, the up to stereotypes, that provides leadership, which is 70,000 volunteers—and how we work with our precisely why you set an ambitious target for women contractors for those 100,000. We also try to drive it and disabled people. So comparisons with the overall through how we provide services, for example, the construction industry are not fair comparisons. We approach we have had to accessible seating in the would expect you to be able to show that leadership stadium, which beats every standard anywhere in the and have innovative ways of reaching out to skilled world; and we also try to apply it on how we work females in the work force and, indeed, of persuading through our procurement approach and how we create your employers to take on those women—perhaps opportunities for minority-owned businesses and 3 Witness correction: 5%. smaller business who would normally struggle to get 4 Witness correction: 11%. this kind of contract. So it is a heartbeat that drives a cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [O] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:12] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
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15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone lot of what we do. I chair our Diversity Committee Dow Chemical, given the ongoing problems, as I say where we have a broad range of external supporters, not related to the original accident. In the Sustainable people like Tanni Grey-Thompson, Floella Benjamin Sourcing Guide for LOCOG, you are committed to and a number of others, John Amaechi, Paul Elliott, finding suppliers who are, and I quote, who really help us to keep focused on it. So this is “environmental, social and ethical”. On all three important to us. counts, it would appear that Dow does not currently In terms of our targets, with our existing work force fulfil those requirements. Can you tell me what work our disability target is between 3% and 6% and we you did on compliance, on ensuring that Dow did are currently at 7%; our BAME target ranges from match up to those guidelines before you accepted 18% to 29% and we are at the bottom end of that but them as a sponsor? we will work up as we get into the final stages of the Lord Coe: There is a lot there. Let me take it in the Games; and on gender, we are at 48% women. Most order that you raised it. Yes, absolutely, I think we all importantly, half my management team are women: remember the human tragedy that took place in 1984, Jackie, who is sitting behind me, who is the director and we have looked at this and we have looked at it of comms; my legal counsel; my director of sport— thoroughly. I will deal a little bit, in a moment, with the first female director of sport in an Olympic the procurement process that you raised. We have Games—my director of HR; my director of planning. looked at the history of this and we are satisfied that They are star performers who are delivering these Dow were not the owners, the operators, or involved Games and they are at the top of the organisation, and with that plant or that site at the time of the disaster that sets the tone going right through. We have made and, crucially, at the time that the overall settlement a special effort in developing talent pools of was made. Again, the explosion was in 1984, the candidates from ethnic minorities and disabled people, overall settlement was made in 1989. It was upheld in so before we have a job for them, we find someone, 1991, and then again in 2009, by the Indian Supreme we say, “You are a great person, we will find you a Court. We have looked at this very carefully and in job when the right job comes along”. When the right everything we know and have seen, we stand behind job comes along, we slot them into it. Dow as a partner. They are a global partner with the The other big aspect of diversity for us is making sure International Olympic Committee. They are, within that people in the local host boroughs benefit from the our territory, able to associate with the London Games being built in their neighbourhood. We do not Games, and yes, they are providing the wrap. want to leave them behind and clearly—Jim, you were It is worth remembering, of course, that in the public getting at this earlier—we need to try and embrace expenditure round in 2010 the wrap was removed them in these employment opportunities. A very big from the public budget, the Olympic budget, so we personal commitment from me was to bring together went out with a very specific tender to the marketplace the host borough leaders, our big contractors, for to find a commercial solution to the wrap, not a example on the catering side, the cleaning side and branded, commercial solution, at Games time. We the security side, and the Mayor and his team were went through a thorough process and on the three responsible for making this happen, to sit in a room— points that you raised—I think you talked about we meet quarterly but the operational group meets environmental, ethical and social—they met by some monthly—and say, “We have a joint responsibility to distance every one of those requirements in that deliver as many of these jobs as we possibly can into process and, by a distance, the sustainable option that, the local host boroughs”. Working through their own in their case, meant that the material they are using is capacity to supply into the 100,000 contractors, they entirely recyclable. currently suggest, “We can provide you with 10,000 people who will be able to take those jobs”. So I have Q337 Mrs Mensch: You will understand that in India the hirers there, I have the local authorities there; I am this was more controversial than anywhere else, and saying, “Let’s do as much of this as we possibly can”. that there were calls for a boycott in the Indian press I hope, as we get into the next few months, when at the time. Can you tell me— these hirings take place, that we do see some Lord Coe: I am sorry, at the time of what? positive results. Mrs Mensch: That Dow was announced as a sponsor, the reports in the Indian press— Q336 Mrs Mensch: That is very encouraging. Can I Lord Coe: I am very familiar with India and the move on a little bit to the controversy over Dow and Indian press, for all sorts of reasons. I don’t think that the wrap for the stadium, of which you will be aware. was actually the case. Dow is a worldwide sponsor. There was the terrible disaster at Bhopal, which we all remember. There are, Q338 Mrs Mensch: The briefings we are given are however, ongoing issues, as you will also be aware, normally pretty accurate. Have you been in as to whether or not Dow is fulfilling its discussions with the Indian Olympic Association? responsibilities by cleaning up the amount of Have you been talking to them about local concerns pollutants it is putting into the water in India. This is about using Dow as a sponsor, or is it your position not, apparently, a legacy of the original accident but that there is no concern from India about Dow as a is an ongoing problem. As I have said before, I am sponsor? increasingly impressed by everything to do with the Lord Coe: I am in permanent contact with the Indian Olympics, and overall it is a magnificent job. It is very National Olympic Committee, again for all sorts of worrying to me, however, that London 2012 is going reasons. As the Chairman of the Organising to be associated in the public mind with a sponsor like Committee and the invitation to India to be here, I cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:12] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
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15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone would always do that. I have no sense at all that the issues, and they are with the Indian Government and Indian National Olympic Committee have even they are with the state of Madhya Pradesh, who were broached the thought of a boycott. the owners of the land.
Q339 Mrs Mensch: No. The suggestion has arisen in Q345 Jim Sheridan: But if you understand the the press. Then there is a corollary question: have they sensitivity, these people are suffering horrific injuries raised concerns with you about Dow as a sponsor and, at the same time that this company is being flagged if so, have you been able to allay the concerns they up as some major company in the British Olympics. might have? Were they the only tender for this? Lord Coe: No, they have not. Lord Coe: I am not here as a spokesman for Dow but Dow were not the owners, operators or involved in Q340 Mrs Mensch: There have been no concerns the site at the time of the disaster. whatsoever from—what about the Indian media? Have they contacted you, asked for a statement? Q346 Jim Sheridan: Yes, but they are still paying Lord Coe: Not directly, no. the legal costs. Mrs Mensch: Okay. Thank you. Lord Coe: That is a view you take.
Q341 Jim Sheridan: There is a major campaign Q347 Jim Sheridan: There is a moral question there. being launched today about this whole issue. Mainly Lord Coe: You are telling me that. it is cross-party Members of Parliament, various individuals and organisations. Have you met with Q348 Jim Sheridan: Were they the only tender for them? this? Lord Coe: Have I met with— Lord Coe: No. They came through a competitive Jim Sheridan: The people who are organising this process and, as I said, I stand absolutely behind our campaign. procurement process. It looked at the options that Lord Coe: Yes. I have met with Members of were on offer and the sustainability of those options, Parliament. I met with Keith Vaz the other day. I met and by some distance they came out ahead on every with Tessa Jowell. Yes, I am politically across this. one of those indices.
Q342 Jim Sheridan: Are you sympathetic to what Q349 Jim Sheridan: Given that you have just heard they are saying about this? that they are paying the legal costs, are you— Lord Coe: My conversations with Keith and Tessa Lord Coe: No. I am not in a position to know that were very open, but I do make the point that, of detail. course, I have been through the history of this. I am not unaware of the size and scale. I am the grandson Q350 Jim Sheridan: Now that I am telling you that of an Indian so I am not completely unaware of this that is the situation, are you in a position to go back as an issue, but I am satisfied that at no time did Dow to Dow and ask them to stop paying the legal costs? operate, own or were involved with the plant, either The victims are claiming compensation and Dow is at the time of the disaster or, crucially, at the time that challenging them. the full and final settlement was made. Paul Deighton: They are paying their own legal costs, they are not paying— Q343 Jim Sheridan: I can understand where you are coming from but the problem is that they are still Q351 Jim Sheridan: Obviously, they are not paying paying the legal bills against the Bhopal victims. Dow the victims’ costs. But the victims are poor people are still contesting it in court, and Dow are paying the who in no way can stand up against these people. legal costs against the victims of Bhopal, and it looks They are the victims, and this is all being dragged into like they are going to win the case. That means the the Olympics. victims of the Bhopal disaster are going to lose out, Paul Deighton: Can I make one clarification that I do and Dow is paying the legal costs for this. not think has come across yet, that Dow became a part Lord Coe: I can’t go into that kind of detail. That is of the Olympic movement in July 2010 when the IOC a question you should put to Dow. I do make the point announced them as a top partner. They are a global that the Indian Supreme Court has upheld, on two partner so they have associational rights to the London separate occasions, the settlement that was reached by Games. That exists anyway, and so the wrap is a small the previous owners of that plant. procurement, which we had to go and do simply because the Government funding was taken away. Q344 Jim Sheridan: Are you not concerned about Jim Sheridan: The only thing I would say is it is the harm that this could cause to the reputation of a major area of concern among parliamentarians and the Olympics? others. I think Steve has a question on it as well. Lord Coe: Of course. As I said, I have gone through the history of this, I have looked at it very closely. I Q352 Steve Rotheram: Only because quite often have gone through the history. I am satisfied, as I said, these things can come from left field, and if this was that the ownership, the operation and the involvement, to become a major issue, as it could, is there any other either at the time of the disaster or, crucially, at the way that you could find sponsorship, or that final settlement, was not the responsibility of Dow. sponsorship could be attracted for the wrap, if Dow There are ongoing issues, absolutely there are ongoing were to perhaps do the honourable thing and pull out? cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [O] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:12] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
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15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone
Lord Coe: I think I made it pretty clear this morning Up until the 1948 Games there were medals that I am satisfied and I am comfortable about distributed within the Olympic Games for prose and standing behind the procurement process we went art. I think it was a British artist that won the last gold through, and I am satisfied that the history of this is medal for an interpretation. We see this as being very very clear to me. important. You have the Cultural Olympiad that started in 2008, that runs through effectively to the Q353 Steve Rotheram: I am not questioning the Festival 2012, with the extraordinary programme of procurement process. I am saying if this whole issue events from 21 and 22 June this year. That runs right was to kick off, is there enough time to look for an the way through to the closing ceremony of the alternative sponsor? Paralympic Games. That narrative, the narrative in the Paul Deighton: It is getting very late. That is, of Cultural Olympiad, the Festival 2012, and then of course, a matter for Dow if they would choose to pull course our opening and closing ceremonies, is all one out, and I do not see that they believe that is very large effort. On legacy, we have an ambition to something they are likely to do. see over that period a lot of people going to cultural and artistic events that they have never been to before. Q354 Dr Coffey: If I can move on to the Cultural Over the Cultural Olympiad, I think we will probably Olympiad. It was billed as a four-year celebration of be able to say we have engaged about 16 million UK culture on a scale not seen before. What portion people. of the £100 million budget has been allocated to the Paul Deighton: We will record the number of four-year celebration around the country as opposed participants we get as one of the measures— to just the London and 2012 Festival? Lord Coe: Yes. It will be properly monitored. Lord Coe: I am not sure that I could answer it in that way. You are right to say that the Cultural Olympiad Q357 Dr Coffey: I will come back to the current started in 2008. It runs naturally into what we call stuff. You just mentioned legacy. Who is responsible Festival 2012 and there is a combination. It is a half for pursuing the targets post-2012? and half combination of public and private. Our two Lord Coe: I can answer that very simply. Post-2012, main partners, BT and British Petroleum, who have all legacy is directly, in simple terms, Government, been our presenting partners in this, have brought their agencies and, of course, the Mayor of London between £10 million and £15 million to the table. throughout this period. There is a Cultural Olympiad LOCOG has made a contribution of nearly £10 Board, which we set up. It is chaired by Tony Hall; it million, so it is a good mix. We don’t tend to look at has people like Nick Serota, Nick Kenyon, Jude Kelly. it that way because there are partners out there, and some of the funding has come through Legacy Trust, some of it has come through the Olympic lottery Q358 Dr Coffey: Will that continue? distributor, some of it with collaborative work and Lord Coe: I don’t know. That would really then be commissioning through the Arts Council. up to— Paul Deighton: The whole structure of the festival Q355 Dr Coffey: I am trying to get a feel of how and the Cultural Olympiad has been to work with much is London-focused, as opposed to the rest of the existing organisations and deliver through them. The country. You don’t have that information? reason they are so interested in being part of it is that Lord Coe: No. We have made it very clear that they will carry on, and this gives them a great Cultural Olympiad, particularly given the potential for opportunity to get new audiences and do new work engagement throughout the country, is really a UK- that they then take forward. Naturally, the legacy is in wide project. We do not look at this as simply a place, because they are all existing organisations. London focus. For instance, in Festival 2012 we will Lord Coe: It turbo-charges a lot of existing have the World Shakespeare Festival. That is overseen programmes. by the Royal Shakespeare Company. There will be 78 productions. They are around the UK and there are Q359 Dr Coffey: Apparently there has been a workshops in all parts of the UK. We have Stratford- significant event in my constituency as well, but it on-Avon, Newcastle, Gateshead, Birmingham and, of was an unusual one, very contemporary. course, our four nations, and supplementary Lord Coe: We have had London 2012 Open workshops delving into the role Shakespeare plays in Weekends as well, which have been hugely the lives of young people and how we can interpret successful, and they have been aimed at celebrating Shakespeare. That is just one strand of it, and that is the four years, three years, two years, one year to go very much a UK-wide programme. markers. We have had about an 88% increase in the number of people and activities over the last three or Q356 Dr Coffey: How are you assessing the impact four years on that as well. Here I express particular of the reach of the Cultural Olympiad? gratitude to British Telecom and British Petroleum, Lord Coe: It is probably not the most scientific answer both our partners, who have come to the table and you will get on this but, first of all, I see, quite rightly, have chosen to activate a large part of their the Cultural Olympiad or culture as being the second sponsorships through cultural programmes. strand of Olympism. If you look at the seamless path that the founding father of the Olympic movement, Q360 Dr Coffey: One extension, if you like, of Baron Pierre de Coubertin, mapped, it was that culture would be the merchandising, and there is, I seamless path between sport, education and culture. have to say, some very snazzy stuff that is available cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [06-03-2012 08:12] Job: 018137 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/018137/018137_o001_th_Corrected Transcript Olympics CMSC 15 11 11.xml
Ev 60 Culture, Media and Sport Committee: Evidence
15 November 2011 Lord Sebastian Coe, Paul Deighton, John Armitt CBE and Dennis Hone right now. In terms of the posters, the Bridget Riley Q363 Jim Sheridan: Can I go back to the question I one looks beautiful. It doesn’t look anything like a asked earlier about schools and logistics. Bridget Riley, but apparently it represents running Unfortunately, there are people who are trying to lanes. How important is that commercial success on portray the Olympics as London-based and nothing to those kind of tangible cultural items? do with the rest of the country. I am wondering, given Lord Coe: Yes, of course it is. Our total the sort of constraint on education budgets just now, merchandising and marketing programme is very transporting kids down to London may not be a important. We are looking, probably, in turnover priority for an awful lot of local authorities. Is there terms, at about £1 billion-worth of retail trade, which any more that you can do, or your organisation can would probably add—I will defer to the Chief do, to help local authorities to bring kids from outside Executive—about £80 million to the— London down to the Olympics? I think that would be Paul Deighton: Maybe even more. extremely helpful. Lord Coe: Yes, our merchandising is important, and Paul Deighton: Our Nations and Regions Group are we have been very keen to make sure it is of the very keen to make sure that people, whether they are highest quality that we could find. Games makers or children with tickets, get the chance to come to London. Many of them are coming up with Q361 Dr Coffey: If you have not merchandised schemes that can support them, so we will look at certain items—I will give you an example—like beach that. huts, would you be open to offers from local businesses? Q364 Steve Rotheram: Lord Coe mentioned Baron Lord Coe: We are open to all sorts of offers from all de Coubertin. Actually, Liverpool has a claim to be sorts of creative forums. the originator of the Olympic Games. John Hulley is supposed to be the father of the modern Q362 Dr Coffey: I know that one of the stops in my Olympics. patch is trying to put beach huts as a prominent Lord Coe: I am across that, but that is probably not feature. The average beach hut in Southwold is about for this Committee. £60,000 to £70,000. It is astonishing, but there we go. Chair: Steve, you have done remarkably well: we got Lord Coe: If you want you can write separately to me to six minutes past 12 before you mentioned on that. Liverpool. Dr Coffey: Thank you. I thank the four of you very much.
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