328'2 Quest.ions and Answers. f ASSEMBLY.] Leadership ofCoimtry Party.

Question-That the words proposed to what authority has Miss Ryan for so be struck out (the Hon. Mr. Brooks' doing? (3) Will he grant an inquiry amendment) stand part of the clause-­ into this matter? ( 4) Is it a fact that put. The Committee divided: a Miss Ryan, sub-manageress, Central Ayes, 12; noes, 22; majority, 10. Railway refreBhment-rooms, was ap­ AYES. pointed to her present position over the heads of employees who have been years Connington, M. J. Tyrrell, 'f. J. Cruickshank, R. W. Wall. Dr. F. E. in the department'/ (5) Is it a fact Kavanagh, E. J. Willis, A. C. that :Miss Ryan, sub-manageress, Rail­ Mahony,R. ·way refreshment-rooms, recently l~/ Smith, T. J. Tellers, tured the staff relative to taking their Sproule, R. Bryant, F. II. Storey, •r. Higgins, J. F. complaints to the union? (6) Will he NOES. state whether it is his intention to re­ Ashton, J. Peden, J.B. store the tramway passes to the females Boyce, F. S. Sinclair, A. a:rid junior employees at Central Railway Brooks, W. Taylor, Sil- Allen refreshment-rooms, N ewcastlc railway Farleigh, J. G. Travers, J. refreshment-room, and carriage cleaning Farrar, E. H. Trethowan, A. K. FitzGerald, R. G. D. Varley, G. H. G. department, Central Station, that were Hughes, Sir Thom:~~ Waddell, T. in operation for close on three years? Innes-Noad, S. R. Wise,J.H. (7) Is it a fact that the employees of the J_,ane-Mullins, J. railway refreshment-rooms have no right Mackay, Major-Gen. Tellers, McDonald, G. R. W. Latimer, W. F. of appeal to the appeal board, and that Meeks, Sir Alfred Shakespeare, T. M. frequent dismissals for trivial matters Quesition so resolved in the negative. are taking place in the railway refresh· Amendment agreed to. ment-rooms? Progress reported. Answer,-As regards ']uestions Nos. House adjourned at 6.7 p.m. (1) to (5) inclusive, ;;>.nd question No. (7), I am informed: (1) Miss Ryan, in company with the Staff Matron, inspected the staff loC'.ken on the 3rd No,·ember Inst, in the ordinary course of her dub·. In two of the lockers she 3Lcgi$latibe \!$ScmlllJJ. noted. -two departmental cloths and removed Friday, 11 December, 1925. them. (2) Instructions ha,·e been issued that staff lockers are only to be inspected in the presence of the staff concerned. Printed Question and· Answer-Leadership of (Joun try ( 3) In view of the instru<'.t.ion.> Tcferred to Party-Questions without Notice-,Juvenile Migrants in question No. (2) it is not eonsidt'red that Apprentieeship (Repe11) Jlill--Farm Produce Agents any inquiry is necessary. ('±) The claims Bill-Irrigation Amendment Bill-Sydney Corpora­ of other officers for the position occupied tion Amendment (~!unicipality of Waterloo) Bill by Miss Ryan were rc,·:owed before the ap­ (second reading)-Pridlege-Allocation of Time for pointment was mad~. but Miss Ryan was Del)ate-Adjournment (Rights of Members). considered the· most ~u[tablc applicant. (5) No. (6) '.!'his matter is having the con­ sideration of Cabinet. (7) Employees of Mr. SPEAKER took the chair. the refreshment-rooms have no right of appeal to the appeals board. It is not correct that there are frequent dismissals PRINTED QUESTION AND ANSWER. for trivial matters.

CENTRAL RAILWAY REFRESffl\fENT­ LEADERSHIP OP COUN'fRY PARTY. ROOMS. Mr. BUTTENSHAW: May I take Mr. JAMES l\foGIRR asked the M1x- this opportunity, Mr. Speaker, to an­ 1sTER FOR RAJLWAYS,-(1) Is it a fact nounce that, owing to the resignation of that Miss Ryan, sub-manageress, Cen­ my old leader, Lt.-Colonel Bruxner, from tral Railwa~· refreshment-rooms, on 3rd that position, I have been appointed .instant, in employees' abs!ence, ·inter­ leader of the Country party in his stead. fered with certain lockers? (2) If so, The hon. mC'mber ¥r. Missingham has Quest.ions ancl Ansuers. [11 DEC., 1925.) Questions ancl Ansu ers. 3283

·been appointed deputy-leader of the been made for fencing and for housing party.. I wish to state that I shall en­ accommodation. Each case is considered deavour to conform to the rules and regu­ on its merits. lations of this Chamber, and that I sin­ cerely hope the same kindness and cour­ RAID ON LABOR DAILY. tesy .will be extended to me as have been Mr. DRUMMOND: In the absence of extended to my late leader. the Colonial Secretai;y, I desire to ask Lt.-Colonel BRUXNER: With your the Attorney-General if it is a fact that permission, Mr. Speaker, following on the Premier and Mr. Baddeley, the ,Min­ the remarks of Mr. Buttenshaw, and by ister for Labour and . Industry, are ·way of personal explanation, I would members of the directorate of the Labor like to take this opportunity of thanking Daily? Is it a fact that a desperate at­ you for all your kindness and courtesy tempt was made to dynamite the build­ to me during my term of office as leader ing in which that paper carries on its of the Country party. I would like also operations? If these are facts, can to extend thanks to all the members of he inform the House if special . pre­ this Assembly, to the officers of the ca u.tions are being taken to ·prevent House and the whole of the parliamen­ a recurrence of the outrage? l£ no such tary staff, as well as to the heads of the action is being taken can the Minister Government departments, who at all inform the House if such inaction is times have treated me with the greatest due to some personal animus against the courtesy and kindness. I very much ap­ two gentlemen mentioned, or is it ,due preciate that, and I hope that the same to the knowledge that those gentlemen treatment will be extended to my suc­ are likely to be immune 'from such ·cessor, Mr. Buttenshaw. attacks? Mr. MoTIERNAN: No such precau­ QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE. tions have been t11ken nor are 'they con­ sidered necessary. WESTERN DIVISION: PUBLIC WATERING PLACES. A'rTEMPT ·ro CORRUPT LABOUR MEMBERS. Mr. HORSINGTON: I wish to know whether the Minister for Public Works Mr. SANDERS: I desire to ask tho is aware that a number of public water­ Premier whether it is a fact that at• .tire ing places in the Western Division are caucus meeting held last night it was unfenced and that this fact makes it decided to invite the directors of the practicaJ.ly impossible for anyone but newspaper of which the Premier is a the big landholders to lease them? director to attend the caucus meeting? Will the :M:inister give consideration to, If so, will the Premier agree to advocate the question of fencing in all public the admission of the press, so that the watering-places so that there may be no public may once and for all know whether obstacle in the way of their being leased? the statements respecting an alleged at­ tempt at bribery came from the Nation­ Mr. FLANNERY: In connection with alist party or only emanated from one the fencing of public watering-places and aection of the Government's own men also the erection of housing accommoda­ who are trying to upset the equilibrium tion consideration is given to all the of their own movement? circumstances surrounding the leases. In Mr. LANG: I was not present at the some cases large landholders with pro­ meeting last evening to which the .hon. perties adjoining have leased public · member has referred. I did read the watering-places, and in. such cases it is report .in the official organ .of : thtt not considered wise to erect fences. But Nationalist Associ'ation, the Daily Tele­ . where outside people have secured leases graph, but I doubt whether it is correct. the D1strict Engineer studies the con­ Mr. BAVIN: I desire to ask the At­ -~enieU:ce of the lessees and provision has Jorney--Genernl whether the newspaper ~28i Questions and Answers. [ASSEMBLY.] Quest-ions and Answers. report that he was present at the caucus Mr. LANG: I can ·assure the hon. meeting last night is correct, . and gentleman that I am not responsible for whether the decision which is reported what Mr. Ball, deputy-leader of the Op­ to have been arrived at was actually position, has to say. arrived at? ..,. Mr. MUTCH: I rise to order. I submit DARLING-S'l'REET·GLADSTONE PARK· these questions are not questions of 'l'RAM SECTION. urgent public importance. Mr. KEEGAN: Is the Minister for · Mr. SPEAI\ER: I might take this oppor­ Hailways yet in a position to answer the tunity of stating that many questions question which I addressed to him asked in this House are not urgent ques­ earlier in the week, concerning the neces­ tions. A number of those questions sity for reducing the fares on the tram­ should have been placed on the business­ way section from Darling-street wharf paper. I propose in the near future to to Gladstone Park, Balmain 'i endeavour to cstalili6h a proper 1hasis upon Mr. FLANNERY: I have not yet re­ which to decide what are urgent ques­ ceived a reply from the Railway Com­ tions. At the same time, as the question missioners to the question asked by the i1ow being asked is in keeping with hon. member. I would like to add that {]Uestions that have heen asked recently, matters relating to the reduction of tram J shall not rule it out of order. fares or to the lengthening or shortening Mr. BAVIN: In view of the published of tram sections are entirely questions statements, I would ask the Attorney­ for the Railway Commissioners. General 1':hether he does not think it would be well to have a proper inquiry CHRISTMAS EXCURSION TRAIN: into the allegations which have bee::i BROKEN HILL. made? Mr. DOE: Some days ago I asked the Mr. McTIERNAN: The business of Minister for Railways if he would con­ caucus is entirely a matter for members sult the Hailway Commissioners es to of caucus themselves. I take the view whether it was practicable to run an that the business of caucus is of such a excursion train from Broken Hill to nature that the hon. member has no Sydney at Christmas time, leaving pas­ right to attempt to pry into other people's sengers to arrange for their own trans­ affairs. port over the 50 miles of country where Mr. J. C. L. FrTZPATUICK: A charge the line is not yet completed. I have not l!as been made! yet had a reply, and as the time is get­ ting very short, I would like the Ministe.t" · Mr. l\foTIERNAN: It is not the only to state whether it is not possible to give charge that has been made against mem­ a reply to my query. bers of the Labour part;v. I was •present at the meeting, and the report in the Mr. FLANNERY: I am not yet in a Daily Telegraph is not correct. position to answer the hon. member's question. I had the matter placed under the notice of the Railway Commis­ LABOUR PARTY AND COMMUNISTS. sioners, but so far have not received their Mr. NESS: Following upon the ques­ reply. tion which was addressed to the Premier by the deputy .leader of the Opposition BREACHES OF l'AIR RENTS ACT. with regard to the eradication of com­ Mr. STUART-ROBERTSON: I de­ munists from the ranks of the Labour sire to ask whether the Minister for Jus­ party, will the Premier state whether it tice is aware that. numb'ers of landlords :is a faet that one of hiis 'Ministers ad­ are forcing tenants out of houses, after mitted, during a first-reading &peech, decisions have been given in the Fair that he was a communist, and, if so, Rents Court, ·and that they have in· whet.her Mr. Baddeley has been asked to creased the rents by 50 per cent.! If the resign from the La hour party? Minister makes himself aware of these Questions and Answers. fl 1 DEc., 1925.] Q1wstions and Answers. 3285

facts, will he have inquiries made im­ :Mr. LANG: So far as I know, the only mediately with a view to at once prose­ addition that will be made to the busi­ cuting those breakers of the law? ness sheet is an urgent railway bill in Mr. McKELL: I am aware of the facts connection with a cemetery. Outside of stated by the hon. gentleman. I will look that I know of no additions. I informed into the matter and see if there is any the House that I would allow ample time provision in the law whereby the diffi­ for the debate on the Budget and the culties of tenants can be overcome. Estimates, and until now, my intention has been to let that be the whole of the SYDNEY CORPORATION AMENDMENT business of this session, plus the small (MUNICIPALITY OF WATERLOO) matter which the Railway Commis­ BILL. sioners say is urgent, to enable them to go on with the electrification of the rail­ Mr. J. R LEE: In the absence of the way. There are also the Loan Estimates Colonial Secretary, I desire to ask the which the hon. member knows have to Premier, in view of the agreement which come along. has been reached between the City Coun­ Mr. BAvIN: You told us nothing else cil and an adjoining municipal council, would be put on the business-paper! and the fact that an election is to be held next Saturday-- Mr. LANG: I understand the Irriga­ tion Amendment Bill is not contentious, Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I have already and that even the Opposition will ibe in ruled that if the bill is on the table, favour of it. If it is not so, I will re­ questions must be asked during the de­ consider the position. If the Opposition bate on the bill. objects to that particular measure or to the railway bill, I am not even going to ILLAW ARRA LIN.E press those. But I want to say this: ELECTRIFICATION. when this House has finished with the Mr. CAHILL: Is the Minister for Budget and the Estimates, if another Railways aware that it is stated that the place has not finished its work, I am not. Illawarra railway line is to be electrified going to sit idly here waiting for the· from January, 1926? Will he inquire other place to complete. If I am delayed· whether it is 'proposed to electrify the too long by another place, it may be that whole of the service on that line, cutting my present intentions will go by the­ out steam passenger traction, or is it board, because this House will proceed· proposed to run only rwo electric trains, with business just a& long as the other just sufficient to keep faith with the place humbugs us. previous announcement. Mr. BAVIN: Will the Premier tell Mr. FLANNERY: I will obtain a full us whether, by the use of the term "hum­ report upon the matter for general in­ bugging" he means the action of t1ie formation. It has been stated that the Upper House in giving reasonable dis­ line will be electrified, and I understand cussion to measures which were forced it is the intention of the Commissioners through this Chamber without any dis­ to run electric trains as far as Suther­ cussion at all~ land by about the middle of next year. Mr. LANG: If the hon. member wants to know e....:actly what I mean by hum­ BUSINESS OF THE SESSION. l1ugging the Government, I mean this: Mr. BAVIN: Is the ~remier in a We sent up LllJbour measures and, they position to make a statement to the have turned them into Nationalist mea­ House as to the business which is to be sures, thus humbugging both us and the· taken before the end of the session? It country. would be of very great advantage to the Mr. p,ERKIN8: Is it a fact that members on this side of the House if we several of the Labour members of the knew definitely what bills he intends Legislative Council have been conspicu­ to proceed with and complete before the ous by their absence in important divi­ end of the session. sicns? If so, is it because they are 3286 Questions and Answers. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions and Ansu:m·s.

indifforent to the legislation which has their will, or by having action taken been· /passed by this Chamber, or is it against them for political activities out­ pecause they want to impress the Gover­ side school hours? nor with the necessity for making fur­ Mr. MUTCH: So far no charges-have ther appointm~nts to the Legislative been r~eived by the department nor any Council? information suggesting. that teachers Major CONNELL: When considering have been disloyal to the responsibilities that question, will the Premier endeavour of their profession or to the department to ascertain whether it is not a fact that in the conduct of their schools, either in certain Nationalist members of that the Hume or in any other electorate. My Chamber are •conspicuous by their pre· attention has been drawn to a report in sence whenever any democratic legisla­ the Albury Banner which insinuates cer­ tion- is •to be. opposed? tain things. Those insinuations havo Mr. LANG: I have noticed some press­ not been borne out by any direct state­ propaganda on which the question asked ment to the department or to me per­ by Mr. Perkins might be based. I made sonally. So far as teaofiers arc con­ inquiries of the Whip of the Labour cerned the policy of thf Gove mm en t i3 party in the Upper House-they have to that they shall not ru!.ke reference to have Whips there now, as it is a party politics in the class-rooms, but that House-why there had been a ·somewhat they shall be entitled to their full privi­ • lesser attendance than there might have leges as citizens outside the class-rooms. been· when one or two measures were The fact that they are teachers does not being· dealt with. Mr. Bryant informed deprive them of the rights which are me that on. an matters and measures enjoyed by other citizens in that respect. of importance there had been a full With regard to the second portion of the attendance of Labour members in the question I shall see that no attempt by divisions. He also told me that in order subterfuge, or by anonymous communi­ to oblige members of the Nationalist cations if such are received, is allowed party. Labour members have been paired to prejudice the rights or interests of with them in every division that has any teacher in the Hume or any other taken place in that House this session. electorate of New South .Wales.· On a pprcentage basis the attendance of Labour members of the Council is over­ BUNCHY TOP. whelming as compared with the atten­ Captain CHAFFEY: Has the atten­ ·dance of Nationalist members. tion of the Minister for Agriculture been drawn to the published statement of Pro­ CHARGES AGAINST SCHOOL fessor Goddard, who is a member of the TEACHERS. Bunchy Top Research and Investiga.tion Mr; GOODIN: I desire to ask the Committee, that in his opinion the Minister for Education if any charges growing of all bananas should be prohi­ have been made or any information bited in New South Wales and the ha1:1 been given to his department to sub­ southern portion of Queensland, in order stantiate in any way the veiled char"'es to kill the disease known as "bunchy and insinuations which. have been m:de top"?, Has the Minister yet received the in· the· press in the southern part of the report of the official investigation com­ State to the effect that certain teachers mittee which was appointed in connec­ in the Hume electorate have broken their tion with this matter, and if so does it trust by introducing politics into the contain a recommendation to that schools. If so, will the Minister give the effect? Does the Government intend to opporhmity to hold a thorough inquiry prohibit the growing of bananas in New either to punish those· teachers if guilty South Wales for the period suggested by or to enable them to completely clear their Professor Goddard? characters? Further, will he also take Mr. GILLIES: Has it tbeen brought steps to see that teachers are not injured under the Minister's notice that the com­ in any way by being transferred against mittee of investigation in connection Questions and Answers. [11 DEC., 1925.] Juvenile Migrants Bill. 3287

with bunchy top has reported that the everybody. Next session I will be cause of the disease has been discovered, pleased to give consideration to the in­ and has announced that the industry troduction of a bill for the purpose. o~ may be· restore& under certain condi­ licensing country stock and station tions? agents. I think that real estate agents Captain DUNN: In reply to both hon. ought to be licensed too. members, the statement referred to has been-brought under my notice through JUVENILE MIGRANTS APPRENTICE­ the press, but no official report has· yet SHIP (REPEAL) BILL. reached- my office: When I receive the The order of the day for the considera­ official report I shall, in consultation tion of the Legislative Council's amend­ with those responsible for this very im­ ments in this bill having been called on, portant wm·k; decide •upon a line· of action. Exactly what that will be I am Mr. SPEAKER: I have given careful not prepared to say until I have read consideration to the amendments made the report and conferred with those re­ by the Legislative Council in this bill. sponsible. The object of this bill as read a Recond time in this House was to repeal an Act DISTRIBUTION OF MILK. under which a certain system of migra­ Major CONNELL: Have repreaenta­ tion was in operation. The bill has been tions been made to the Minister for returned to this House by the Council Public Health with a view to putting with amendments, whereby the system of into effoct the recommendations of the migration is to remain in force notwith­ Board of Trade with regard to the dis­ standing that the Juvenile Migrants tribution of milk? If so can the Min­ Apprenticeship Act, 1923, is repealed. ister say what his intentions are with Even the short titllf of the bill has been regard to the matter, or whether he pro­ amended to effect the cluinge. I find .in poses to do anything definite next ses­ the Votes and Proceedings that on 29th sion in order to deal with this important August, 1916, one of my predecessors question? found it necessary to draw attention .to Mr. CANN: The question has been the manner in which the Council had under consideration by the Board of amended the bill to provide a military Health. I cannot give any information ·and naval hospital home. The quo.tations at the present moment, but probably used in that case are, in my opinion, so something will be done later; apt that I cannot do better than repeat them at length. "May," 10th edition, COUNTRY STOCK AND STATION page 458, says: AGENTS. " • . . The Chairman also; regarding an amendment offered to a bill that was Mr. ROAD: Has the attention of the limited in scope to the repeal of a clause ;Minister for Agriculture been drawn to in a statute, ruled that the amendment was a letter in to-day's Telegraph over the out of order, because its object was the con­ tinuance and the extension of the clause signature of the president of the Country proposed to be repealed." And again "The Stock and Station Agents' Association, Chainnan stated that, though the Committee requesting the Government to introduce had full power to amend, even to the extent legislation to regulate stock, station and of nullifying the provisions of a bill, they property agents in the same way as farm could not insert a clause which reversed the principle which the bill, as read· a second produce agents are being regulated under time, sought to affirm." the Farm Produce Agents Bill? In the It appears to me that that is .what the interests of the general public and. the other Chamber has done in this instance. agents. themselves will the Minister in· Again in "May," 10th edition, page 463, troduce the desired legislation, thus con­ it states: ferring a blessing. on everybody? " . . . the Partnership Amendment Captain DUNN: I h0tpe that the Bill having been committed pro forma, was Farm Produce Agents Bill, when· it be­ extensively amended/ no amendrormt being comes l,1w, will conter a blessing on inserted wh'.ch it was not clearly competent 3J88 J-uvenile Migrants lASSEMBLY.] A.pprenticeship (Repeal) Bill. for the Committee to entertain when objec­ your ruling or of saying an,ything which tion was taken that it had become a new might imply m1y disrespect. I only blll, the Minister in chai·ge of it, while want to point out that this bill does re­ denying the alleged ~xtent of th~ amend- 1nents consented to withdraw the bill. · And peal the J uvenilc Migrants Apprentice­ again; on the same principle, the Speak.er ship Act. Clause 2 expressly provides. stated, appeal having be~n made to him for its repeal. The action of ,the Pre­ regarding extensive alterations made by the mier in withdraw.iug thjs :bill is .all I Committee on the Tithe Rent-Charge Re­ covery Bill, that, wh:Jst he desired to safe­ wish to refer to. I think this is part of guard the rights and jurisdic~ion. £ to l::e encouraged in every possible way the day discharged. and the Act which was passed at ·the Motion (by Mr. I.ANG) proposed: instance of the N·ationalist Government was solely for the purpose of encouraging That the order of the day be discharged. it. We wanted to give the young men Mr. BA VIN (Ryde) fll.5 a.m.]: In who came here under the conditions I regard to the ruling which has just been have indicated some sort of security .given-- and more than that. we wanted to give Mr. SPE.rnER: Order! I take this op­ their parents in England-- portunity of stating that my ruling can­ Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mere-­ not be canvassed except on a motion of her cannot discuss the provi&ions of th,.e dissent. · Act. He must confine his remarks to Mr. BAVIN: I can assure you, sir, the reasons why the bill should nC't tyj that I have no intei;tion of canvassing withdrawn. [.ill r. Speaker. Juvenile Migrants [11 DEc., 1925.] Apprenticeship (Repeat) Bill. 52811

·11fr. BAVIN: Every word I am saying coming out here. It repealed the Act is directly relevant to the Premier's and substituted nothing for it. It left motion that this bill be withdrawn. the young men to come here, and it took I am pointing out that the bill from them the protection, which the Act as it left this House repealed the Act gave them, of having a legal guardian which we passed and it is necessary to who could guard their interests. The re­ explain the provisiorlf.l of that Act in sult of the repeal of the Act was very order to make; the position clear. I am serious. Parents of young men in Eng­ giving reasons against the withdrawal of land hesitated about allowing their boys. this bill. The Premier has moved that to settle in a country in which when they it be withdrawn, and I am going to vote arrived they had no legal guardianship against that. Surely I am allowed to whatever. give my r~a'Sons for voting against the Mr. McTrnnKAN : I rise to order. I motion. I am explaining what the effect submit the hon. member is going beyond of the amended measure is. You, sir, the motion. This House, at the second have explained that the measure as reading and the third reading stages of · amended iB an infringement of the privi­ the bill, decided in favour of the repeal leges of this House. of the Principal Act. The hon. member Captain DUNN: You opposed the bill is now arguing that the Act should not in this House, und now you are going be repealed. You, Mr. Speaker, havo to support it! - already ruled that

I am closely watching the debate, and give these young men some protection shall see that hon. members keep strictly when they come here." That ·is not in to the question. any sense a refusal to accept the principle Mr. BAVIN; I do not propose to take of ,the original Act. The Premier ia re­ up much more of the time of the House. sponsible for the action he has taken. If the hon. gentleman had not intervened He is not bound' by what you, Sir, have I should have already finished. I was said. This bill cannot be withdrawn pointing out what the Upper House has from the notice-paper without a motion done in.. this matter. The Premier is ask­ by the Government. If the Government ing, on the ground that the Upper House chooses to go on with this bill it is cn­ has done something it should not do, that to do so. the bill be withdrawn and that this new measure be now put on the statute-book. Mr, SPEAKER: It has never been· done. I would call attention to w:hat the Upper Mr. BAVIN : I am not saying any­ House has done. The system of juvenile thing disrespectful to your ruling, immigration is going to continue·. The :Mr. LANG: But you want me to act Act. which was repealed by the bill we disrespectfully! sent to the Legislative Co1mcil laid. down certain conditions and gave the juvenile Mr. BAVIN: No. I do not. The immigrants certain protection. The re­ iSpeaker· has called the attention of the peal of that Act, without the substitution Assembly to what the Upper House has of anything. for it, left these young men done. He cannot make any claim to in an entirely. unprotected state, and have a right to discharge the bill. brought about a. condition of things That is an action for which the Gove:rn­ which discouraged parents in England ment must take responsibility. The from allowing their sons to come here. Premier is taking this course merely for What the Upper House has said is this: the purpose of trying to discredit the "We agree that the conditions laid down Upper House. in the Juvenile Migrants Apprenticeship Act shall be swept away." They have Mr. GoooIN: On a. point of order. I repealed that Act altogether, and I am ask whether this is the same bill as was at a loss to understand what the introduced here, seeing that the order of Attorney-General means by saying that leave in this ·bill, as printed now, has this measure does not repeal that Act. It been altered since the day it was intro­ does EO. Clause 2 of the bill says, "The duced in this lHouse. Juvenile Migrants Apprenticeship Act is Mr. SPEAKER: That is not a point of repealed." That means that all the con­ ditions laid down in the Act for the pro­ order. tection of these young men are swept Mr: BAVIN: The conditions laid away and do not exist any longer. All down in this bill are such that I do not that the Upper House has said is, "We think any reasonable man can object to agree that those conditions you have them_, as a protection for the young men wiped 011t shall go." That is the prin­ who are coming here. The conditions ciple of the bill, and the only principle. are in. every way reasonable and fai.r for When saying that it agreed to wipe out the protection of these young men, so the conditions of protection accorded to that this bill is to be discharged from these young immigrants, the Upper the notice-paper, and the statute-book is House at the same time said, "Although not to be allo.wed to have this bill added we agree to these conditions being swept 'away, we do not think it desirable in the to it, simply because the Minister is not public interest that these young· men satisfied that useful legislation should should be left without any protection at be suggested by the Upper House. all." The Upper House while agreeing to That. is all it comes to. It is merely on the repeal of the Act has merely said, a point of pride, because the· Minister is "We shall prescribe some conditions to not willing that the Upp-er House should f Mr. Speal,·er. Juvenile Migrants p 1 DEC., 1925.J Apprenticeship (Repeal) Bi"ll. 3291 ' - have any credit, that he has now deter- as the Premier desires, namely, that this mined to deprive these young men of the • measure be discharged from the busine-.ss· extremely useful, reasonable, and sen- paper. sible protection this bill gives them. Captain DUNN: I move: l\fr. McTIERNAN: The original Act That the question be now put. stands! . ·;.- The House divided: Mr. BA VIN: I know tbat. Mr. McTrnRNAN: Do you not want the Ayes, 43; noes, 29; majority, 14; original Act to stand? AYES. Mr. BA VIN: No. This matter has Alldis, S. D. J,azzarini, C. C. l h Burke, Fr1mk Loughlin, P. F. been fully discussed, and the c auses t at Burke, Michael Lysaght, A. A. are now in this bill are clauses that Cahill, J. J. McClelland, A. might very well have been accepted by Cann, G. McGirr, .Tames the Government. This is being done Clark, J. A. McKell, W. J~ · Connell, Major Mc'l'iernan, E. A. solely for the purpose of discrediting the Davidson, M. A. Minahan, P. J. Upper House, and that is why I object Davies, W. Murphy, C. H, to the. motion by the Minister. Dunn, Captain Murray, D. W S I Ely, W. T. Mutch; T. D. Mr. McTIERN AN ( estern u )- Fitzgerald, .T. J. O'Halloran, R. i!l. urbs), Attorney-General [11.24 a.m.]: Flannery, M. M. O'Hearn, W. R In reply to the leadei- of the Opposition, Gillies, R. T. Quirk, J. I want to point out that the attitude of Goodiu, V. W. E. Ratcliffe, W. J. d h' b'll Gosling,M. Scully,W.J. the hon. gent1 eman in regar to t is i · Greig, R. Stokes, P. V. is most extraordinary. On the second Road, K. 0. Stuart-Robertson,R.J. reading of this bill he put up a strong Holdsworth, W. Tully, J.M. plea for the retention upon the statute- Horsington, E. M. Tellers, Keegau, T. Booth, G. book of the Juvenile :Migrants Appren- J,a11 g, J. T. Kelly, C. A. ticeship Act, which this bill sought to NOES. repeal. Now, apparently, the hon. gen-· Anclerson, D. M. Hoskins, 'I'. J. tleman wants us to g·o on with this Arkins, J. G.D. Jackson, J. measure, which will have the effect of Arthur, Dr. R Kay, A. D. vitfllly altering the bill which was placed ,,- Bavin, T. R. Kilpatrick, M. . Bennett, W. Lee, J. R. upon tiel statute-b oo;:l at t h e mstanee Bruxner, Lt.-Col. LeYy, D. of the hon. member's Oovernment. Buttenshaw, E. A. Missingham, W. T. The leader of the Opposition entirely Cameron, W. . Ness, J. T. misunderstands the position. If the Chaffey, Capt:i.m Perkins, J. A. M' · ' t' l l · b'll b d' Doe, B. J. Sanders, E. L. misters mo 10n, t 1a.t t us 1 ~ is- Drummond, D. H. Stuart, F. W: charge(! from the busmess-paper, is ac- Fitzpatrick, J.C. L. Vincent, R. S. cepted, tne effect will be that the legisla- Fuller, Si'. George Tellers, tion which was passed ihy hon. gentle- H~nley, Sir Thomas Fost~r, W. !· . . . . Hill T. H. Jarvie, MaJOr men opposite will remam, and these ' . d . ffi t' young men will have all that protection Question so reso 1ve mt1 1e a rma ive. for which the leader of tl1e Opposition· Question-That the order of t~~ day is clamouring. It seems to me most ex- be discharged-put. The House d1v1ded: traordinary that the leader of the Oppo~ Ayes, 44; noes, 28; majority, 16. sition, who is generally very clear-headed AYES. with regard to these matters, has alian- Alldis, S. D. Pitzgcrakl ..T .• T. cloned his judgment for the purpose of Booth, G. Flniiuery, M. M. putting in some plea for his friends in Blll.'ke; Frank Gillies, R. T. Burke; Michael· Gosling, M' the Upper House. The action- of the cah ill·, J . J . Gre1g, · R . Premier is perfectly right and· proper, Cann, G. Road; K. 0. in the circumstances. There is no other Clark, J. A: Holdsworth, W. ~ourse that the Government could adopt, Com1ell, Major liorsington, E. M\ Davidson, M. A. Kay, A. D. and there is no oth er course w h ich the Davies, w. Keegan, T. hon. gentleman could adopt, to he con- Dunn .. C:iptain Kelly, C; A. ;istcnt, than to allow this matter to go Ely, :W. T. Lang, J. 'l'. 3292 Farin Produce Agents Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Irrigatim (Amendment) Bill.

Lazzarini, C. C. O'Hearn, W. F. certain cases it makes provision which Loughlin, p. }'. Quirk, J. will have the effect of improving the con­ McClelland, A. Ratcliffe, W. J. ditions of civilian settlers ·also. I am McGirr, James Scully, W.J. McKell, W. J. Stokes, P. V. only asking now for leave to introduce McTiernan, E. A. Stuart-Ro bcrtson, R. J. the bill, and will give a foll explanation Minahan, P. J. Tully, J.M. of its provisions on the second reading. Murphy, C.H. There arc only three clauses in the mea­ Murray, D. Tellers, Mutch, T. D. Goodin, V. W. E. sure, and I am sure it will be approved O'Hallonm, R. E. Lysaght, A. A. by every hon. member in the Chamber. NOES. Captain CHAFFEY (N amoi) [11.45 Anderson, D. M. Jackson, J. a.m.]: I think every hon. member is Arkins, J. G.D. Jarvie, Major quite aware of what is the intention of Arthur, Dr. R. Kilpatrick, M. the bill as far as it affects returned Bavin, T. R. Lee, J. R. Bennett, W. Levy, D. soldier settlers on irrigation areas, and I Bruxner, Lt.-Col. Missingham, W. T. .believe we all welcome the opportunity it Bnttenshaw, E. A. Ness, J. T. affords for helping them. Various memc Cameron, W. Preston-Stanley, Miss bers of this House have remarked that Chaffey, Captain Sanders, E. L. Drummond, D. H. Rtuart, P. W. it is not only desirable, but absolutely Foster, W. F. Vincent, H. S. necessary, to make certain adjustments. Fnllcr, Sir George But there is a vitally different principle Henley, Sir Thomas Tellers, indicated by the words "certain other Hill, 'I.'. H. Doe, B. J. Hoskins, T. J. Perkins, J. A .. occupiers of land within irrigation Question so resolved in the affirmative. areas." Captain Du:rn: That is, civilian set­ Order of the day discharged; bill tlers! ·withdrawn. Captain CHAFFEY: Those wo:rds may cover any person. I think the PARM PRODUCE AGENTS BILL. House is entitled to know from the Min­ Bill I"ead a third time. ister what is meant by them. Captain DuNx: I propose to explain IRRIGATION (AMENDME:NT) BILL. that on the second reading! Captain DUNN (Wammerawa), Min­ Captain CHAFFEY: There is a big ister for Agriculture [11.43 a.m.], principle involved in dealing with other moved: occupiers of land within irrigation areas. That" leave be given to bring in a bill to Although the bill is to appl,y only to provide for the revision of indebtedness to irrigation areas, it is not confined to the the Crown and to the Water Conservation }.{urrumbidgcc area, but is made ap-­ and Irrigatio,n Commission of discharged plicable to all irrigation areas in the soldiers and certain other occup:ers of laml within irrigation areas; to extend the law State. The principle is quite right, and relating to remiss:on of rents, charges for we have applied it as l'I. Government in water and interest; to validate certain the past in relation to concessions of actions of the said Commission or the interest and other charges to returned authol'ity for the time being administering the Irrigation Aet, l!l12; to amend the soldiers, irrespective of the area upon Irrigation Act, 1912-1924, the Crown Lands which they were located. Where, how­ Consolidation Act, 1913, and certain other ever, there is any intention on the part Act.s; and for purposes connected therewith. of the Government to give away public He said: The bill which I am asking money, surely the House is entitled to for leave to introduce is one which I have it explained. believe will be welcomed by all parties, I would also ask the 'Minister to do as providing, as it does primarily, the neces­ the Minister for Lands did in connee­ sary legal power to enable concessions to tion with. the Returned Soldiers Settle­ ibe granted to returned soldier settlers ment Amendment Brn, and as the late on irrigation areas, and thus place them_ Government made it a practice to do­ on a basis which will ensure their suc­ attach an. explanatory note to the bill. cessfully carrying on their farms. . In That would be. helpful to hon. members Sydnoy Corporation [11 lJEc., 1925.] ( IVutorlvo Jiunicipality) Bill. 3293

on both the Governl!l.ent and the Oppo­ maJonty decision the City Collncil sition side of the House, and would agreed that the amalgamation should facilitate the passing of the measure. take place. Mr. BUTTENSHAW (Murrumbid­ Mr. JAt/l;Es: It was not by a vote of gee) [11.48 a.m.]: I am glad to learn the ratepayers! that the ,1finister intends to do some­ Mr. LAZZAHINI: No. I would re­ thing for the settlers on the Murrum­ mind the hon. member that when the bidgee irrigation area. Since I have municipality -0f Camperdown was ab­ represented the area I have endeavoured Gorbed by the city of Sydney it was not as far as possible to obtain some redres11 1by a vote of the ratepayers. for t'hose people. There are hundreds of Mr. J. R. LEE: To be fair to Waterloo, men there to-day who are struggling that unanimous decision was arrived at under burdens which are absolute];,' in­ under a certain agreement! . supportable. Mr. LAZZARINI: I said that it was Captain DUNN: And not only returned arrived at under an agreement. I know soldiers! that many arguments will be adduced Mr. BUTTENSHAW: No, civilian by members of the Opposition to the settlers also. In many cases those men, effect that it would be much better to when placed on the land, were given wait until a more comp:i;ehensive mea­ blocks which were quite unsuitable for sure is introduced to provide for the the purposes for which they were ob­ Greater Sydney scheme. Very many tained. In the early stages many were members of this House are of the opinion induced to grow certain Viarieties of that the amalgamation of the whole of fruit which proved afterwards to be a the municipalities named in connection failure, and after waiting four or five with what is known as the inner zone of years for the trees to mature they had the Greater Sydney scheme, should ·be to start operations over again. I do not gradually absorbed, and that Greater know what are the intentions of the Sydney should be built u.p• in that way. Minister, ·but I sincerely hope some com­ Captain CHAFFEY: The City Council pensation will be provided for those men will spend £250,000 ! who were placed on unsuitable land. I Mr. LAZZAHINI: I will deal with welcome the measure, and trust that that! when the Minister moves the second An HoN. ME~rn1m : It is bribery! reading he will give us a full and com­ plete statement of what he proposes. Mr. LAZZARINI: My hon. friends are so used to dealing with bri.bes that Captain DuNN : I can assure the hoi;i. member the bill will meet all the cases bribery is uppermost in their minds. Captain CHAFFEY: On a point of he mentions. Question resolved in the affirmative. order. The Minister has suggested that Bill presented and read a first time. members of the Opposition are accus­ tomed to taking bribes, and I submit SYDNEY CORPORATION AMENDMENT that he should be asked to withdraw that (MUNICIPALITY OF WATERLOO) statement. BILL. Mr. LAZZARINI: I withdraw that SECO:N"D READING. statement. The suggestion with regard Mr. LAZZARINI (Western Suburbs), to bribery, which seems to me to be Colonial Secretary (11.50 a.m.], moved: uppermost in their minds at all times, was first made by members of the 0ppo- . That this bill be now read a second time. sition. He said: This bill is the outcome of an As .r said, it is arguable whether understanding arrived at between the it would be better not to proceed until City Council and the municipality of such time as the Greater Sydney Bill ·,w ater1oo. It was the unanimous decision was passed for the purpose of taking in: .of the Waterloo Municipal Council that the whole of the municipalities in the the area under its control should be inner zone, or whether it would be better .absor~ecity of Randwick and all the municipalities Sydney exceeded that amount the muni­ which are within the inner zone, will be­ cipality of Waterloo would have to pay come part of Greater Sydney. The the rate that would be imposed on th.e municipality of Waterloo, by a unani­ rest of the city of Sydney, mous vote of the aldermen, has shown Mr. HOSKINS: \Vere the aldermen who that it does not desire to wait until such made that agreement returned at the time as the Greater Sydney scheme is election on Saturday last? propounded. It is desirous of becoming Mr. LAZZARINI: The election in con­ part and parcel of the city of Sydney nection with the municipality of Water, right now. The agreement between the loo has been deferred. municipality of Waterloo and the City Mr. J. R. Lim: Supposing capital Council has 1been accepted by both values go up in Waterloo, can the rate bodies, and this House is simply asked be increased beyond 5;J;d. in the £, apart to ratify that agreement. This House is from any increase that may take place asked to do no more and no less. U nde1· in the city of Sydney? the agreement the City Council will take Mr. LAZZARINI: I propose to deal over the whole of the municipality of with that matter now. Possibly the ar­ Waterloo, together with its assets and gument will be used that as the City liabilities. Council has undertaken to spend £50,000 For the first four years after this per annum for the first four years, and bill come..<; into operation the City that as up to the present the revenue of Council will expend in Waterloo the sum the municipality of Waterloo has not of £50,000 per annum for the purpose of exceeded £35,000, it will impose the oibli­ bringing that municipality up to the gation on the rest of the citizens· of standard of the city of Sydney, and to Sydney of finding the money to bring bring it into conformity with modern re­ Waterloo up to the city standard. But quirements. The revenue of the Water­ hon. members must not forget that that loo Council at the present time is about expenditure by the City Council will £35,000 per annum. As I said, the City greatly increase capit11: values, so that a Council guarantees to spend £50,000 per greater revenue 7ill be derived in the annum for the first four years, and as area which is now the municipality of against that the municipality of Water­ J.V aterlo" loo has agreed to pay for the period of Provis10n is made in the bill ten years a rate of 5id. in the £, which that .all officers and employees. of the is provided for in the . bill. In Com· Waterloo Council shall be absorbed by mittee I intend to amend that provision, the IOity Council and enjoy all the and to make the rate 5H. iri the general rights and privileges which are £ for this reason : In the area now conferred upon the employees of the now comprised in the city of Sydney an City 'Council. The Waterloo munici­ extra .halfpenny in the £ is imposed in pality covers an area of 780 acres and ~onnootion with the Sydney Harbo!lr has a population of about 11,200. There [Mr. Lazzarini. Sydney Oorporation [11 DEc., 1925.] (Waterloo Municipality) Bill. 3295

are between 3,000 and 4,000 houses and guttering and the paving of footpaths. about 45 miles of streets. It may be The bill provides that in regard to all suggested that the votes of the rate· new kerbing and guttering and paving payers of ·waterloo will have greater the ratepayers shall still be called upon value than those of the ratepayers in the to pay half the cost. This will apply wards which now go to make up the only to new work. All renewals will be municipality of Sydney. The Waterloo paid for out of the general rate. municipality will be divided into the Mr. FITZSL)IONS: Why should the Rosebery and ,Waterloo wards and for ratepayers of '\Vaterloo be exempted from each of these wards two aldermen will the payment of the bridge tax? be returned. The first election will l::e ~Ir. LAZZAIUNI: Because the Sydney held under the local government fran­ Harbour Bridge Act did not provide for chise because, unless the council is de­ the payment of the ta-oc by the people of prived of representation for a consider­ Waterloo and as this bill has been able period, the~e will not be time to brought in long after the passing of that adjust matters so as to hold the first Act, and provision has already been election under the wider franchise now applying to the city of Sydney. At the made for financing the construction of the bridge it is thought that it would be first election under local government con­ unjust t'.) impose on the ratepayers of ditions there will be in each of the wards Waterloo the bridge tax of 2d. in the £. about 1,770 voters as against about 3,200 in each of the city wards. But when the Mr. J-. R. LEE: What about streets in broader franchise of the City Council which no ke1•bing or guttering or paving comes into operation there will be be­ has been done1 tween 3,000 and 4,000 voters in each of Mr. LAZZARINI: Where work of the wards of what is now the Waterloo that kind has not yet been done the pro­ municipality. perty-owners will be required to pay half · Mr. J. R. LEE: In other words, the the cost and will thus be placed on the r'Voting value will be about equal to that same footing as property-owners ·who in of the present city :wards! t.he past have been called upon to pay. a Mr. LAZZARINI: Yes. I have care­ moiety of the cost. I hold the view that fully gone into the matter with the there is no justification for making a officers of the City Council and with the gift of thousands of pounds to those municipality of Waterloo. property-owners who have not yet been An HoN. MEMBER: Where are the ad­ called upon to contribute towards the ditional voters coming from? cost of kerbing and !?uttering and pav­ Mr. LAZZARINI: Under the new ing. franchise there will be lodger voters as As I have already stated, the first elec­ well as ratepayer voters. · Under the tion will be conducted under the Local broader franchise now operating in the Government Act. As soon as possible city there will be, if anything, moTe after the bill becomes law the chamber voters on the roll for each of the vV ater­ magistrate at the Central Police Court loo wards than there are ju the present will take steps for the compilation of a city wards. _r;roper roll under the city municipal In regard to the .provisions of the franchise, and after that roll has been Main Roads Act, the ·Waterloo Council prepared the City Ciuncil will as soon as has agreed that it will remain subject to practicable take a vote for the election the M. rate which now applies to all of two aldermen for each of the new suburban .municipalities .as contrasted wards. I think I have covered the whole with the id. rate which is levied upon of the provisions of the bill. This is a the city of Sydney. In all the .munici­ case, in which the two councils concerned palities outside of the city the property­ have agreed, and no attempt is being owners have imposed upon them, under made to do something against the wishes ·the Local Government Act, the obliga- of the ratepayers. In case this ·debate tion to pay half the cost of kerbing and should assume a party aspect, I may tell :3296 Sydney Corporc.;tion [ ASSE .MilLY.] (Waterloo Municipality) Bill. hon. members that the Municipal Coun­ take into account all the privileges that cil of Waterloo is not composed of alder­ Waterloo is to have in the way of work men of one civic or political line of which is to be done b:y the City Council thought. It is equally divided to-day; you will find the cost to the city of there are two big parties in it. Notwith­ Sydney will ultimately be more than .standing that, it was unanimously agreed £500,000. That is to be given solely to by the council that this absorption should enable the Labour aldermen of the City take place. Council to get four more aldermen into Mr. BAVIN (Ryde) [12.11 p.m.] : The that council.· Minister says he has told us all about the I want to. ~all the attention of the contents of this bill. He has explained Minister to the position in which the n10st of the clauses, but he did not explain Opposition stands in regard to the dis­ why the real business of the country, cussion of this matter. The motion for which is at present the discussion of the leave to introduce the bill was moved Budget and the Estimates, should be set yesterday morning without notice. That aside for the purpose of putting through in itself was a flagrant breach of the a bill which has no other object than to promise the Premier had given me five increase the Labour representation in the minutes before. It was a flagrant and City Council. There is not one other outrageous defiance of the promise the 1mrpose in the world to be served by this Premier gave me, and Mr. Davidson hill. This bill is a huge bribe given by heard him give it. the present majority of the City Council Mr. DAVIDSON: I do not deny it! .of Sydney ito the people of Waterloo in Mr. BAVIN: I know you do not. order to enable the Labour aldermen to Mr. DAVIDSON: Don't make a mountain increase their majority. They have a out of a mole hill! somewhat slender majority at present, Mr. BAVIN: I am charged with mak­ .and they want to make'themselvea secure ing a mountain out of a mole hill when carry on the government of the city to I complain of a gross breach of promise as they have been carr:ying it on for some by the Premier of the country. How­ .years past. They are at present, and ever, I do not want to say anything more have been for some years past, on such a about that. The Minister is a fair­ ,good wicket in the City Council that minded man, and realises the fairness of they want rto make certain they will be what I am saying. He moved for leave there for some time. to introduce the bill, saying that he Mr. LAzZARINI: The Labour people wanted to get the bill on the table. The Jrnve not a majority in the Waterloo bill was not put on the table for some Council! time. I had to speak on the Budget yes­ Mr. BAVIN : I do not care anything terday afternoon. The bill has been about the Waterloo Council. No matter available to hon. members only thi:i whart side he is on, if an alderman of morning, practically. I do not know the Waterloo Council did not want to get whether it was on the table even this this proposal carried through what a morning. I did not get a co;;iy till this pretty kind of alderman he would be! morning, and I do not know whether any Why should the Waterloo aldermen hon. member on this side did. The bill .object to a gi£t of a quarter of a million is a most complicated and technical mea­ of money which will be half a million sure. It deals with hundreds of thou­ before this business is finished? I know sands of pounds of the citizens' money. there.are aldermen i,i1 the city of Sydney I hope the people will understand the who object to it. · facts in regard to this measure, and the Mr. LAzzARINI: Where did you get your way in which it is being pushed through. figures with respect to half a million of It deals with hundreds of thousands of money? pounds of the people's money; it makes Mr. BAVIN: The engineer's estimates most intricate arrangements for the show £250,000, and he admits they are amalgamation of the two municipalities; .drawn on a conservative basis. If you it co:iitains ~etailed provisions as to the L [Mr. Lazzarini. Sydney Corporation. fl 1 Drcc., 19:.l5.J (TYaicrloo Jlunicipalily) Bill. 3297

treatment of the staff of the Waterloo sands of pounds of the citizens' money, Council; it contains provisions every one and we are given the bill this morning of which requires the most careful and have to discuss it immediately. It .scrutiny before members can be in a is grossly improper and unfair. The }Josition to pass judgment on it. The Minister knows that perfectly well. The ~'l:inister will not deny that, for he knows Minister says 1this bill has to be passed it :perfectly well. It is impossible for any by next Saturday. Why? As I under­ 11on. member , to discus<> the measure stand; it is for the purpose of some elec­ this morning. I do not know whether tion, which has been postponed. This the Minister proposes to go '.through agrrnment that we are to ratify here to­ Committee with it to-day:· If he does I day is an agreement \vhich was made by believe his action will shock even his own a council which was a dying council; it .supporters. had.no authority from the ratepayers to Mr. LAZzAmxr: The bill must go make this agreement. through before next Saturday! Mr. LAzzARINI: It was made last Mr. BA"vIN: That means that it has August! to be got through Committee to-day. The Mr. ·BA VIN: Anyhow, that council J'.finister has made his second-reading has never been before the electors. speech. I ask him now to postpone con­ Mr. l\foTCH: It was elected! sideration of the measure not only to· Mr. BAVIN: But not to deal with the enable me to make myself acquainted question o:f the incorporation of the area with its contents, but to give hon. mem­ in another municipality. bers on this side a chance to examine its prov1s10ns. I ask the Minister to take, Mr. MUTCH: Do you say that the coun­ say, Monday for it. There is not one cil has no right to function 'on the eve member in this House who has looked of its retirement? through the bill, and I have no doubt Mr. BAVIN: It has no right to make not one on the other side has looked such an agreement as this, and even i:f :through it, or he might be tempted to the council had the right to do it, what say .something about it. I am sure if right has 1the Government to take an Mr. Davidson did not like a bill he would agreement made by a dying council and 11ave something to say. Does the Minis­ foist that on the people of th·is country, ter think he is treating the Opposition or on the ratepayers of Sydney? fairly in going on with the bill this Mr. MUTCH:' The agreement was made morning? with the City Council. Is that a dying­ Mr. LAZZARI"!: I have been in this council? House for ten years, and can say that Mr. BAVIN : The agreement has never • this is no shorter notice than has often been ratified by the municipal electors of been given by your own party to other -Waterloo, nor by the municipal electors parties! of the city of Sydney, and the Minister Mr. BAVIN: That is not correct. If has no right whatever to ask this House the llfinister can ;produce one single in­ to accept an agreement made in this stance in which an Opposition was way, when it was perfectly open to him, treated by our party as we are being or to the municipal council of vV aterloo, treated this morning by his, I shall to have arranged to obtain an expression apologise. There is not one single case. of opinion from the people of ·waterloo I am not saying the Minister intends. to on this subject, if they desired to do so. make an inaccurate statement, but to This piecemeal amalgamation or absorp­ allege that we ever treated an Opposi­ tion of municipalities is a most unfair tion like this is unfair. The way in and unreasonable method of extending which we are being treated in connection the ~boundaries of the city of Sydney. It with this hill jg. an insult to Parliament. would be bad enough if the boundaries We are expected to discuss in detail the of the municipality of Waterloo coin­ prov·is,ions of an agreement which involves cided with the 1boundaries o:f the city of the expenditure of hundreds of thou- Sydney, b~t- there is apparently only one- 9 z 3298 Sydney Corporation [ASSE:\lULY.] (Waterloo J.Iunicipality) Bill.

short line on which the rnunicipul boun­ the amalg«mwtion of Oamperdown wa& daries of \Vaterloo touch the municipal ·brought a-bout, and far more favourable 'boundaries•of the city of Sydney. There to the citizens of \Vate:rloo. In ten years is no possible reason for this amalgama­ the whole responsibility and cost of tion, except that \Vaterloo is a place that mainta.ining the \Vatcrloo area are to fall will give the City Council four more on the citizens of Sydney. Why is the Labour aldermen. It happens to touch the period ten years, when twenty-one years . City Council area at one spot only, and was :fixed in the case of the amalgama­ Yery few men could find their way from tion of Oamperdown? The citizens of Sydney to \Vaterloo without going Oamperdown will have to contribute to­ through another {nunieipality. I do not wards the cost of administering their ·think the Minister himself could. I am area for the next twenty-one years, but sure very few persons in this House know under this measure the citizens of where the spot is at which the boundaries \V aterloo ·will only have to pay for teru touch. I do not suppose the Lord Mayor years. That is one of the things which himself knows. Perhaps he may break th~ Minister did not explain. · the silence which he has maintained ever Mr. LAZZARI1\I: The councils thought. since he came into this House in order to it a reasonable proposal! explain where it is that the municipality :M:r. BAVIN: Then if the Minister is . .of Waterloo touches the municipality of going to extend the boundaries of the the city of Sydney. What justification city of Sydney, he must give equally· is there for bringing in this outside area, favourable terms to every other munici­ which has not the necessary physical pality which he brings in, and those· connection, nor any other connection, terms are extravagant and absurd.

with the city of Sydney.? 1 Mr. DAVIES: Is not everything we do Mr. MUTCH: Do not call it "an outside "extravagant and absurd"? area.'' It is in my eleotorate ! Mr. :BA VIN: Nearly everything 1s­ Mr. BAVIN: I call it an: outside area that your party has done recently. It from the point of view of the city of would be had enough from the point of" Sydney. If the Government wished to view of the citizens of •Sydney if this deal with this question in a proper way agreement had been made by a council it obviously should deal with it under a which had shown itself capable of ad­ general proposal for the eKtension of the ministm·ing the affairs of the city or boundaries of the city of Sydney. Sydney, but, apparently, the principle on Mr. LAzzARINl: We will give you that which the Government is acting is that next session! as the City Council has shown itself Mr. BAVIN: Well, if the Minister in­ unfaithful as the ruler of one city, it is: tends to do that he robs himself of any going to ma:ke it the ruler of two cities. possible reason for passing this bill now. '..i\ny member of this House who would I hope that that intimation will be noted dare to add one iota to the powers at by hon. members. If the Minister is present exercised by the City Council of going to introduce a bill next session to Sydney would be doing a gross wrong to­ extend the boundaries of t'he city of the whole of this community. Sydney, then the terms which are pro­ Mr. :MUTCH: You mean, because Allen vided in this bill will have to be made Taylor is not controlling it now? the terms for the admission of other Mr. BAVIN: It is not because Sir municipalities. It will be very difficult, Allen Taylor is no.t controlling it, but indeed, if the Minister is going to take because the present majority in the City any other municipalities into the City Council is controlling it. I ask the hon. Council area to do so on any terms less member Mr. Mutch whether he thinks :favourable than those which he is pro­ that the municipal government of the 'Viding in this bill. · Those terms are in city of Sydney at the present time is. 'every way unfair and extravagant to the very creditable government 1 "citizens of Sydney. They are quite dif­ Mr. MuTCH: More so than th& ferent from the co:r:i.ditions Ullder which 1N ationalists ! L.... [Mr. Bavin. _A· •·• Sydney Corporation. [11 DEc., 1925.] (Waterloo Municipality) Bill. 3299

Mr. BA VIN: Well, I am glad to have in this House. But why should the Gov­ that opinion, because now I know what ernment take this a·ction to increase the to think about your opinion of munici­ majority of the Labour aldermen in the pal government. city of Sydney~ Why should the Gov­ Mr. LAZZARINI: The friends of your ernment ·go out of its way, to waste the own party congratulated the Lord Mayor time of this House and prevent us from on his administration of the City Coun­ discussing the real matters which we cil affairs during the last twelve months! have to discuss, the Budget and the Mr. BAVlN: I am not responsible for Estimates, which I know perfectly well their utterances. I repeat that the ad­ we will get no opportunity of discussing ministration of the affairs of the city of this session? I suppose it is because this .Sydney by the City Council is such as to course of action has been laid down for make the name of municipal administra­ them by some outside authority. I' do tion stink in the nostrils of decent citi­ not believe the Minister himself desires zens. It is a byword for inefficiency, and to extend the powers of the present City for worse than inefficiency, and every Council. I am quite sure he does not. citizen knows it. What is the use of our I do not think any decent citizen of coming to this House and pretending we Sydney wants to see the present powers are handing over the municipality of of the City Council extended. \Vaterloo to a body which deserves to Mr. :M:uTcr-r: You are trying very· have those powers extended to it? Every­ hard to convince yourself! body knows that what I say is ,true. Not a :M:r. BAVIN: I do not want any con- - single transaction of any importance has vincing, and the hon. member knows . taken place in the City Council-or it is perfectly well he does not want con­ difficult to think of one; I cannot think vincing. He knows how the city of of one at present-that has not aroused Sydney is governed. I quite under- . the gravest suspicion and perfectly well­ stand his support of this measure. justified•criticism on the part of all citi­ Waterloo is getting a very good thing zens who want to see decent, honest gov­ indeed out of the amalgamation. The ernment in the City Council. We had a hon. member's electors are having a .. royal commission, and the disclosures present ·made to, them of anything be--­ made by the royal commission were tween a quarter and a half a million. enough to indicate how some of those pounds, so that naturally enough he transactions have been carried out. supports this measure. Mr. ·STOKES : Why did you not prose­ Mr. MuTCH: I believe in a Greatei: cute? Sydney! Mr. BAVIN: It was impossible to Mr. BAVIN: So do I. Let us have prosecute, for the reason that the 'evi­ a Greater Sydney. dence which was given, and on which the Mr. MUTCH: This is a steP' towards, royal commissioner's findings were based, it! was evidence by men who came under Mr. BAVIN: This is not a step to­ the protection of the Royal Com­ wards it. This is a step away from it. missions Evidence Act, and under ths This will only make the Greater Syd­ provisions of that Act such evidence ney problem much more difficult, be­ could -not be used. All I have to say carn~e the city of Sydney is giving is it would not have taken us long to special terms to a particular area, . take action if there had been any legal which will make it very difficult to re­ means of prosecuting, ·What I sa,. about fuse the same terms to other areas. the administratioh of the City Council They are utterly unreasonable, and, is what every citizen knows to ibe rper­ they cannot fairly be given to any other· fectly true. The City Council of Sydney municipality. · is a by-word throughout Australia. Mr. MuTCH: We can give them all I could understand the Government similar terms ! taking action of this sort in order to in­ :Mr. BAVIN: You will not ibother crease its own majority. It has done it r;bout giYing similar termr:i to other 3300 Sydney Corporation (ASSEMBLY.] (Waterloo 3fomcipality) Bill.

municipalities which are not in your is made on the floor of the House :by a electorate. The Government is not help­ man who has been sent here by a large ing the Greater Sydney movement by nurn'ber of electm,s-and ihe knows noth­ supporting this bill. If the Government ing else about the subject-it is a sorry is in favour of a Greater Sydney move­ clay for the welfare of our city and our ment there is a scientific way of deal­ country. Mr. Lee mentioned this morn­ ing with it-that is, to take the exceed­ ing some statement which c:t was sup­ ingly able and useful report of the royal posed to have made last night. I assure commission which inquired into the the House I cnever mentioned the hon. question, and either act upon it or else member's name last night. It was re­ have another inquiry, and re-examine greUable to hear the representative o:f' the recommendat1cn;; o:I that commission an important electorate make a childish in the light of present-day con

a legal boundary which was drawn up party. This proposal has been unanim­ about the year 1842, when the Sydney ously ·agreed to with the exception of the Corporation Act fir.st came into !being. one amendment which I pointed out-- Is there not community of interest? vVe Mr. JACKSON: It was unanimously are at the present time negotiating opposed by us ! with Randwick also. I stand for the Mr. STOKES: It was not. The only progress and development of this city, amendment was that the term should be with its. wonderful accomplishments and twenty-one years instead of ten. Mr. potentialities. In vVaterloo there are 102 Bavin says this bill will be opposed at all large manufacturing establishments. Do stages. Why? If both shades of political hon. members opposite sta~d for local opinion think the proposal is in the in­ manufacture and for employing men of terests of the municipality of \Vaterloo their own city anrl. adjacent municipali­ why should Parliament act contrary to ties? If not, we do. · their viewpoint? I say that opposition Having gone carefully into the ·finan­ is morally wrong, and Pven if hon. mem­ cial aspect we say that we can spend in bers opposite do fight, make no mistake, vV aterloo £50,000 per annum for four it will not stop the progress of the years. I am also in the happy position Labour party in the city of Sydney. of being able to state that., in spite of Mr. B.wrn: That is what I say; it is to· so-called I~abour maladministration, the help the progress of the Labour party in. rates in the city of Sydney will be re­ the city of Sydney! duced neX't yeai:. We are not controlled' Mr. STOKES: That is not so. I do· by the trusts mid contractors who have not care what the election results may run the city of Sydney in the past. be in the future. There are six Labour· Since I have taken over the Lord and six anti-I,abour representatives in J\Iayoralty, daJ--labour has ibeen estab­ the Waterloo Council to-day. How can lished throughout the whole of the city you say we are trying to increase th<~ services, and we have a contented body strength we have to-day? The city has of employees, which at all points makes got to extend, and we are also giving con­ for efficiency. Vvhy do the members of sideration to the amalgamation of Rand­ the Civic Reform party fight among wick, which includes members of yom: themselves? Why have they split own party. . asunder? Because they are fighting for The hon. member may think what he· the trusts, contractors, and electrical likes about our administration, but we· manufacturers who have rohbecl the city are in a position to reduce the rates. The· of Sydney of hundreds of thousands of rntes at \Vaterloo must continue at 5;]-d_ pounds. Diel Mr. Bavin appoint a royal for the next ten years, and we are ex­ commission when he was in a position to pending £50,000 per annum for four years .. do so? It Wi!S mentioned to him-why That will increase land values, and I was it sidetracked? Why did the •Civic consider it will be a great thing for the Reform party go out of office? After a city of Sydney in every direction. I feel redistribution of the city wards, carried sure that Mr. Lee will support the out by their own commissioner, we went measure. to the electors and wiped the :floor with Mr. J. R. LEE (Botany) [12.46 p.m.J: the Nationalist party. Wc hold the con­ I realise there are a number of good and fidence of the people to-day, and the only useful points in this proposal, as the thing J'lfr. Bavin can mention to our Lord Mayor has said, from the viewpoint detriment is something that happened of Waterloo, but I have yet to learn that when his own members were in the mud my representations in this House wiH right up to their necks. be governed by the results from a vote­ catching point of view. If a thing is ].fr. BAVIN: vVhom do you mean by my wrong in principle I will vote a~ainst it. own members? Tbe last speaker stated that I had been Mr. STOKES: Mr. Walker and Mr. approached by the aldermen of vVatcrloo Charlton were members of ;your own to oppose the bill. I haYc -~o corrc:::t tb~ 3302 Sydney Corporation (ASSEMBLY.] (Waterloo Municipality) Bill.

hon. member. I have not been approached the proposal should be submitted to the by any aldermen for that purpose. It was ratepayers by referendum when the elec­ only lately that I was able 1:0 discover the tion takes place next Saturday. The agreement on which this amalgamation Local Government .Act provides that be­ is based, and it was not till late last fore a council can extend its boundaries night tha·t I was able to see the bill for or add to them, the matter must ha sub­ the first time. I do not agree with the mitted to the ratepayers by referendum. Lord Mayor that Waterloo is one of the Mr. STOKES: Do not the aldermen rep­ most solvent municipalities in the dis­ resent the ratepayers? trict. For a long time it has been "up Mr. J. R. LEE: The aldermen came against it," which may be some justifica­ to this decision on the eve of the expira­ tion for the bill on the ground that it tion of their term of office. ·will put Waterloo municipal district on Mr. STOKES: It w1as a unanimous deci­ a much better financial footing to have sion! £200,000 spent in it for the next four Mr.' J. R. LEE: But a certain proposal years. I believe, with a number of has been altered. people in the district, that the affairs of Mr. STOKES: That is only .a tTifle ! Waterloo have been ba.dly administered Mr. J. R. LEE: I am of the opinion for many long years. If it could be better that if the proposed amalgamation were controlled, the proposal at that end might resubmitted .to the council it would not be worth supporting. reqeive unanimous support. Personally I believe there is no Mr. LAZZAUINI: The case put ·before me urgency for the bill, and it is my inten­ was to the effect that negotiations began tion to move in Committee that the ques­ about June or July last ·and mattens were tion be submitted to a referendum of the not finalised until .about the end ,of people at the election which will take August or early in September. There place on Saturday next. If that is done was, I believe, some delay in connection I have no doubt it will be carried; but I with the City Council. 'Dhe Waterloo do . claim that those who will have to aldermen do not go out until the end of carry the responsibility should be the the year! people to determine whether or not they Mr. J. R. LEE: That may be. What I should link up with the city of Sydney am emphasising is that the original pro­ until a Greater Sydney scheme is carried posal has been altered, and if the matter out. were resubmitted to the council it would The Minister said that a unanimous not now receive unanimous support. decision had been arrived at by the Although the bill provides for a rate of Waterloo Council regarding this proposal. iii):d. in the £, the Minister proposes in I am just a little in doubt. I understand Committee to malke it 5,J;d. that the •anti-Labour aldermen agreed to the amalgamation 1because the Lord Mr. RATCLIFFE: It is nov; 6d. ! Mayor originally proposed to kerb ·and Mr. J. R. LEE : I am not concerned gutter the whole of the streets on the with that. I believe that .a number of R-osebery estate under the same condi­ the aldermen 1and the ratepayers have tions as that work is done in the city of been misled as to the true effect of that · Sydney. That had a great effect upon rate even if the change is effected. It is those .aldermen, but I now learn that it all very well to say that the rate for the is not the intention of the City Council next ten years will he 5,J;d. irn the £, ibut to carry out that proposal. As a result if the ·City Council spends £200,000 in of that, these .aldermen have changed Waterloo during the next four years the their attitude towards the amalgamation improvements effected will increase capi­ of Waterloo with the city of Sydney. If tal v1alues so that a rate of 5id. in the £ a vote of the council were taken to-mor­ to-day will mean a rate of lO~d. in the £ row on the matter, I feel sure there after that money has been .spent. would not be a unanimous decision. F'or Mr. J,AZZARINI: The capital value of cllat reason I think it is essential that iiroperty will be increased, and that is [Mr. J. R. Lee. Sydney Corporal-ion . [11 Drw, 1£125.J OVaterloo Municipality) Bill. 3303

. one «J>f the sets-off which ;make the finan­ social gathering one afternoon. I could cial proposals of this measure rather not make it convenient to atteud, but .good! when I read the reports in the 1'1ews• JI.fr. J. R. LEE: The entire proposal papers next morning I found that at the requires mature consideration at the luncheon which was held the Lord Mayor .hands, not only of the aldermen, but of the entered into certain undertakings with ratepayers. I agree with the Lord Mayor the gentlemen who were present. I, as . that the city must extend southwards, nn alderman representing a substantial and I am prepared to do all I can to number of ratepayers, was apparently not bring :about the development of the of sufficient importance to be consulted. southern portion of the metropolitan It was in connection with that gathering area, but I object to a piecemeal method so far as I know that the movement for ·of handling the situation. Because the amalgamation of the Waterloo muni­ there is .a strong feeling in vVaterloo cipality with the city of Sydney started. that this matter has not had! the con­ When we examine the facts associated sideration it ought to have had, I pro­ with this movement we can only con· pose to move when. the bill is in. Com­ elude that it was conceived for the pur• mittee that it be referred to a referendum pose of obtaining for the ruling element of the ratepayers for an expression of in the City Council continuity of con• ·opinion. trol. There are a number of munici• palities round the city which might fairly [Mr. Speaker left the chair at J p.1n. 1'he be regarded as better propositions for House resumed at 2.15 p.m.J amalga,mation tlrnn the W ater1oo munici· Mr. ,JACKSOX (Sydney) [2.17 p.m.J: pality. If we look at the nrnp which I am rather surprised that the Gove.·n · Y:as published in f;p 8•11L'"·'' ,l[•1:ninq ment should have lent itself to this pro· H ualcl to-day we shall sec tl:at the muni· posal. Probably many hon. members ari'J cipality which has the longest knmclary not acquainted with the condition. of adjoining the city is the Globe, and no .affairs in the City Council to-clay. The doubt a good case could be made out for position is not quite the same as in this the amalgamation of that municipality .Chamber. Here we have a Government w.ith the city, even though the financial in power. One member is sclec~ed by position might not be so satiof·•ctvfy as the Governor to form a Cabinet, and he, could cc desired. .So for ~s its geo­ with the Ministers chosen by him, is graphical position is r'•ncemed the Glebe responsible to the House for their actions. municipality shou lrl ')e cme of the first to There is no parallel for this in the City he approached wtth an amalgamation >Council which controls enormous fonds. scheme. Much the same thing applies It can be quite understood that there are to Redfern and Paddington, and also many troubles arising from twenty-six very ·largely to Ranclwick. 'All these men sitting round a table and endea­ municipalities might reasonably be vouring to administer affairs of the city brought within the city boundaries even which has an annual income amounting to though the financial position might not ~ver £3,000,000. A condition of affairs be .particularly attmctive. A glance at has been brought about which some day the map will disclose the interesting fact ,must be closely scrutinised with a view that it would be impossible for most .to bringing a·bout a change. One of the persons to reach \Vaterloo without results which have followed from the con­ hnv•ing to ask many questions by the ditions which have prevailed for some .way to obtain information as to the right time past is that the ruling element in the way to proceed without crossing another City Council has developed a desire for municipality. Having travelled along a little extra power and for more security Dowling-street section, then mooned ,in regard to continuity of control. I do about for a little while, it would be seen not know whence this proposal emanated. that there was a small section of the The first I heard of it was an invitation strePts of S"dney opposite to the muni· extended to the aldermen to attend a cipalit~· of Waterloo. 330·! Sydney Corporation [ASSEMBLY.] (Watei·loo Jiluniciillility) Bill.

The Lord Mayor claims tha't it would be the representatives of Bourke, Mac­ of advantage to the city if this amalga­ quarie, and Lang wards, which ;provide 1 mation were brought about, but I take the /[) per cent. of the revenue from rates, directly opposite view. It would be dis­ voted against the scheme. The Belmore tinctly to the disadvantage of the city, ward does not pay its fair share of the and would cost the citizens of Sydney an cost of keeping things going in the city. enormous sum of money. The city alder­ Its representatives decided that the men are not by any means unanimous amalgamation would be a good thing, in regard to this proposal. The Civic and that we should pay a substantial ~eform aldermen, with one exception, sum for the privilege of amalgamation_ \;lpposed the proposal at every stage, and The representatives of Pyrmont and of t cannot understand how the Lord Mayor Camperdown, which are among the ten can say that the aldermen were unani­ wards which do not pay their way, also mous. Ten of the eleven Reform alder­ voted for the scheno.e. In view of this men voted against the agreement, but position, I am staggered to think that the other Reform alderman, Alderman the Government should have had so little Courtenay, who for some years had been regar.d for its reputation a.s to fall into associated more or less directly with this trap. There can be no justification :municipal life in Waterloo, felt it to. he for this proposal from any standpoint. his duty to vote for the amalgamation. Tho terms of amalgamation should be iWhen it came to a question of working such as could be offered to the other out the details of the instrument under municipalities which ad:ioin the city. which the amalgation was proposed to But if we offered the other municipali­ be carried: out, Alderman Courtenay dif­ ties amalagamation on the same terms as fered from the Labour aldermen and those now being conceded to Waterloo withdrew his support from them. The tho receiver would be at the Town rr~ 1 • Reform aldermen voted against most of to-morrow morning. We have no right the clauses in the agreement. But, just to enter into an arrangement of this as in this House, hon. members, after kind unless we can offer similar terms voting against the second reading of a to other munici;palitios regarding amal­ bill and having done their best to defeat gamatio:a. We are asked to take four it in the earlier stages, are broad enough more aldermen into the City 'Council, to afterwards set about securing the best where we already have twenty-six alder­ possible results, so the Reform aldermen men sitting round the ta1ble. No doubt fiinding that they could not defeat the hon. members can readily foresee what scheme, turned round and did their best will happen. To that twenty-six we are to make it acceptable. The position is going to add another four, and so make that there is a distinct 1ine of cleavage confusion worse confounded. in the City 1Council. There arc fifte~n With a kno·wledge of the City CounciI, Labour aldermen and eleven Civic Reform and of the difficulties of administerirw; aldermen and the attitude of the respec­ even a small business concern, I say it i~ tive sections towards this proposal has absolutely impossible to do the job already been indicated. decently for the citizens with twenty-six The revennes of the City Council are men each i'.1aving equal voting power. very great. The income of £3,000,000 to Either this Government or some other wil1 which I have already referred includes the have to take into serious consid'3ration receipts from the electric light service. the question of forming out of the City But speaking of rates only, it may be Council some kind: of executive which ;pointed out that 75 per cent. of the reve­ should he held responsible. Under prE'­ nue from rates is collected in tluee wards scnt conditions arnge contracts. are de­ in the city, while the other ten wards con­ cided upon b:v the Council-I have sat tribute only 25 per cent. The representa­ at the table when a contract for £500,000 tives of seven out of the ten wards was being- dealt with-and for twenty-six which contributed 25 per cent. of the men each to liavc an equal vote is not revenue voted for this proposal, while fair to the citizens. An improvement [11fr. Jacl.·son. Sydney Corporation. [11 DEc., 1925.J {Waterloo Municipality) Bill. 3305 can be effected by establishing a Greater by the other twenty-six. It is an utterly Sydney, but that scheme has received a indefensible position for the City Coun~ distinct set-back from this bill. cil to take up. If the House understood An HoN. MEiiBER: In what way? the position at the Town Hall it would Mr. J ACRSON: We cannot afford to not wonder at any proposal of this kind lJroceed along these lines, in view of rnER: Do you suggest Sydney, and they are chiefly thorough­ that the wages are too high~ fares which have not been thoroughly made. Mr. JACKSON: No. Nobody on the It is claimed for the municipality of Opposition side of the House stands for 1,V aterloo that it has a very good balance­ low wages. The first duty of the aldermen sheet-that it has no loans, and no very should be to protect the general interests substantial debts. True, but we can all of the taxpayer within the city. With e. have that if we like. ·If we choose to starve knowledge of all the facts, I say that services we are legitimately called upon Labour in the City Council stands first to carry out, we can easily show a credit for t11.ie employees. I do not ·want to balance. Those who endeavour to do suggest that the council emplo.vecs arc their duty must run into debt to some iretting too much pay, but they haYe extent in order to carry out legitimate no right to better conditions than have ·work. This particular district does not the men who have to find t11e money ·~o seem to have donq that. It has allowed pay them. its committee to keep a tidy book but an Another clause in the bill provides that untidy street-that is, the streets have the rate shall be 5!/:d. for ten years. This remained undeveloped, and the city of if; the sop which is given to the city for Sydney 1mR to buy them in for the ·pur­ the absorption of this great municipality. pose of making them good. This £~1'i.OOO Although we are told to-day that Water­ of revenue coming in to the City Coun­ loo returns six Labour and six ·anti­ cil will he renresP,nted 1by four men. Labour aldermen. the two wards are while £3,000 .. 000 odd »ill be represented impped out in such a way that the heavy 3306 Sydney Corporation (ASSEMBLY.] {Waterloo Municipality) Bill.

·industrial vote is at one ·~nd of a com­ I do not say Labour cannot administer paratively little occupied area. The posi­ decently, 1but I do say that Labour in tion is that four Labour aldermen will the 1City Council does not administer be returned at the next election, without decently. It is "up to" higher powers waiting for the "lodger" vote to be in­ than the City Council-- cluded. An HoN. MEMBER: What do you mean An HoN. MEMBER: How can you be by higher pawers? ·certain of that? Mr.. JACKSON: Parliament will yet Mr. J"ACKSON: I am so advised by take it into its head to do it-if not the men who know the district. The sop to present Parliament, then the next. The "the city of Sydney for footing this whole proposal is one which was con­ bill is that it will collect 5~d. in the £, ceived with a desire to plunder the rate­ 11s against 3id. which the city pays to­ payers-not literally, but to plunder them

city. I believe if a municipality on the I was returned to the City Council other side of Duck Creek wanted to be without opposition. It is true that Mr. absorbed by the City Council the J,abour Jackson and the Civic Reform party in party would say, "Let it come in so long the City Council opposed the absorp­ as it returns the required number of tion of Waterloo. As a matter of fact, Lj:tbour members." I intend to oppose they oppose the absorption of any subur­ this bill at every stage, because I be­ ban municipality that. wants to come lieve that it is an indecent proposal, into the city area, but, -at the same which has no merit at all. 'There was time, they pass resolutions in favour no close analysis of the :figures put of Greater ,Sydney. The attitude of the before the City Council in connection Labour party is that if it cannot get .with the amalgamation of 1iV' aterloo and Greater Sydney all at once it will get the city of Sydney. A general sur­ it by instalments. Mr.. Jackson knows vey was good enough. No transaction that I have been agitating for the ab­ of equal importance ever received less sorption of Randwick by the City Coun­ consideration than this one. The cil, and Randwick is not a La:bour Civic Reform party, of which I am a municipality by any means. member, did its best to hold it up at :Mr. MuRPHY: And you have no guaran· every tum. It should be held up. If it tee that Waterloo is! is not held up it will result in the un­ :llfr. MICHAEL BURKE: We have doing of somebody. It is a deliberate no guarantee, but it is more likely to .bribe. I lift my hat to the aldermen of be a Labour municipality than Rand­ Waterloo who have said, "Let us get wick is. I have advocated the absorption this thing done quickly." This is I~ab­ of Randwick, because it will enable us our legislation which is being introduced to make better provision for workmen's at the expense of the citizens of Sydn'3y, homes. The Waterloo Council was because the merits of the proposed ab­ unanimous in its decision to amalga­ sorption are non-existent mate with the city of Sydney. The Mr. MICHAEL BURKE (Sydney) Civic Heform party, of which Mr. Jack­ [2.50 p.m.J : I would not have risen to son is a member, opposed the proposal. speak on this bill if it were not for the Mr. Jackson said that after opposing the remarks made by the last speaker. There proposal his party had to turn round are many things I could say in reply and make the best of it, and only a few to the statements which have ·been made moments ago he told us he would not .in connection with the City Council and touch the proposal with a 40-foot pole. its administration, but I propose to let Could you imagine anything more in­ them stand over, together with other consistent? remarks which I intend to make in Mr. JAQUES: Why not refer it to regard to a certain royal commission, some learned king's counsel? until next week, when we are discussing Mr. MICHAEL BURKE: That might the Budget. Mr. Jackson apologised be advisable because political hacks who because he is a member of the City Coun­ are members of the legal profession are cil, but I do not know of any man who always hanging round. As a matter of spent more money to get into the City fact, legal hacks of this description are Council than he did, and now he apolo­ to be found crowding like carrions gises for being there. around a carcase. By a majority de­ An :HoN. MEMBER: Do you wish to cision the City Council has approved of apologise for being a member of the City the amalgamation of Waterloo with the ·Council? city of Sydney, and the Waterloo Coun­ . Mr. MICHAEL BURKE: I do not; cil by a unanimous vote favoured the I am proud of being an alderman of - amalgamation. Mr. Jackson said that the City Council, and I am prouder three wards in the city of Sydney-Lang, still that .. the .free and. independent Macquarie and Bourke-paid all the rates, electors of the city of Syqney sent .me and that the other wards lived on them. into this House as their senior member. Everybody knows that Lang, Macquarie, 3308 Sydney Corporation [ASSEMBLY.] (Waterloo li1unicipality) Bill.

and Bourke wards consist of bricks and tion of the condition of people who live mortar, and nothing else. Mr. Jackson in places adjacent to the city of Sydney. and his crowd havQ never had any time H we spend a little more money on those for flesh and blood. They only have places in the interests of the community, time for bricks and mortar. In Flin­ surely we are justified in doing so. ders, Belmore, Bligh, Denison and Pyr­ Jl.i!:r ..Jackson made a statement with lle­ rnont wards you find the people who are ga~d to the promises made by members of the citizens of the great city of Sydney. the Labour paHy, and also said that party If you go into Bourke, Lang,or Macquarie ir: the City Council only represented the wards after 6 o'eloek in the evening workers and gave no consideration to the ycu will not find a soul living there. general body of ratepayers. vVhen we The most valuable property in the city went before the people in November we of Sydney is centred about the General told the workers that if we were returned Post Office. There is not a soul sleep­ with a majority we would establish the ing in the General Post Office, and not a forty-fou.r hours principle, that we would single man connected with the General not increase the rates, and that we would Post Office is entitled to vote for the reduce the price of electric current to the election of aldermen to the City Coun­ consumers for light, heat and power in cil. the metropolitan area. \Ve did not Mr. J. C. L. FrTZPATRICK: The people break our word to the ratepayers as re­ of the wards you are speaking of are liv­ rrards increasing the rates, reducing the ing on Bourke, Lang and Macquarie ~rice of electric current for light, heat wards! and power, nor the establishment of the Mr. MICHAEL BURKE: They are forty-four hours principle. \Ve were just doing nothing of the kind. They are as careful in the fulfilment of our pro­ working people. They are engaged in mises to the ratepayers as was Mr. ,Tack­ trades or in business in the city proper. son. W c told the ratepayers that if the Does the hon. member say that these r~tes were increased, the rents would be people should not be entitled to a vote? increased and that it would be the Mr. J. C. L. FrTZPATRICK: I would not workers who would suffer. It is our duty give them a vote! to keep down the rates. The administra­ Mr. MICHAEL BURKE: I know you tion of the aldermen of the City Council would not. I know that Mr. Jackson speaks for itself. \Ve are there in the would disfranchise them to-morrow. Mr. interests of the whole of the people and Jackson has been returned to the City not in the interests of one section only. Council and to this House by bricks and We have proved that we have acted in mortar. the interests of everybody. This bill Mr. BAvIN: The bricks and mortar that v.: ill be a good deal for the Waterloo returned 1fr. Jackson have more common Council, and it will not be a bad deal sense than the men who returned you! for the City Council. If we are not Mr. MICHAEL BURKE: Give us a going to increase the rates of the citi­ smile. ·You could not look pleasant if zens of the city of Sydney there is noth­ you tried, you miserable creature. '.['he ing to complain about. I£ we spend free and independent electors of Sydney £50,000 a year as we propose to do under returned me both to the City Council and this bill it will do a great deal of good. to this House. It has been pointed out The values in the city of Sydney are that the City Council will lose through far in excess of those of IV aterloo, and the absorption of Waterloo. As soon as considerin" that we have pledged our- . the City Council takes control, such im­ selves not to increase the rafos I fail to provements will be made that the value see what objection there can be to the of p.::-operty will 1be greatly increased. In two years' time it is safe to say we will b.3 bill. receiving double the money we are get­ Mr. NESS: What is the difference be­ ting to-day. Those who are so ready to tween increasing the rate and doubling criticise have not the slightest concep- the valuation? [M r. ~Michael Burl.:c. Sydney Corporation. lll DEc., 1925.] (Waterloo ~Municipality) Bill. 33Q9

Mr. MICHAEL BURKE: If we in­ extension of the city of Sydney in the crease v;alues are we not entitled to in­ south is justifia·ble, then it is justifiable crease the rate ? in the ea·st and the west. It is only Mr. NESS: What difference does it under such a proposal that I and make to the ratepayers? aldermen in ad.ioilliing municipalities Mr. MICHAEL BUllKE: It will make would consider sud1 a scheme. As a this difference to the ratepayers, that we matter of fact, this scheme is distinctly ·will increase the value of their property political. The members of the La'bour and give them a decent and healthy party know full well that at the next locality. election there will 'be at least three if Mr. FOSTER (Eastern Suburbs) [3.5 not four Labour aldermen returned for 1-'·m.]: As a ratepayer of Waterloo l Waterloo. It has been stated that our felt a certain degree of sympathy with dear friends of the working-man pay this measure, but that has been entirely high wages, and we, the representatives of dissipated by the speech of Mr. Michael what they contemptuously term the Burke. I thought the arrang·ement was capitalist, pay lbw wages. It is nothing a fairly good one, so far as vVaterloo was more nor less· thmi a venomous lie. concerned; but as Mr. Michael Burke ha.s Mr. FnANK BURKE: What is a ven­ stated that in about two years the actual omous lie~ rates paid! will be about double-and I Mr. FOSTER: It is a venomous lie believe that is true-- to say that what are termed capitalist Mr. :M:rcnAEL Bumm: I did not say councils are anxious to pay low wages that! and that the City Council which has such :.\ir. FOSTER: I thought the hon. r~presentatives as Mr. Michael Burke pay member said it. I for one •cer• high wages. I tell Mr. Michael Burke tainly object to paying approximately -and probably he is aware of the fact ls. in the £ on my business premises. -that when certain compr.risons were As a citizen of Sydney and a ratepayer made recently as to the wages .paid 'by of the city I object to such a 8cheme as various municipalities the aldermen of this. If a referendum were rt;aken not the city of Sydney ·would not 'believe 111erely of the voting power of the metro- ·until they made direct application to tho' • polis ibut of the effective voting power town clerk of Woollahra that the '\Vool­ of the cit.Y of Sydney w:hich gives the lahra Council was paying higher wages workmen a living and which makes it than the City Council itself. }Jossible for the City Council :to squander :Mr. ~fcTrnnxAx: W.ha:t has that got to so much money, I say at once that such do with the ·hill? a proposal as this would ;be defeated. Why Mr. FOSTEiR: It hns this to do witl1

1ocal government matters; but he has of the Opposition was particularly vicious. during the laet few weeks adopted such in his suggestion that the bill was being an air of superiority that he has become introduced for political pmposes. All I absolutelv insufferable. Whether it is can say to the hon. member is ,that if a bill de;ling with local government mat­ he does not nurse his nerves a little .bet­ ters, widow~' pensions or something else ter than he has been doing and if the hon. member invariably reads some­ he goes on showing the temper he hai;. thing sinister into it. It is either a britbe been displaying lately I can see that the to get votes or to secure more Labour re­ time is· not far distant when he will 'be­ presentation in the City Council or come an absolute neurotic. something equally bad. The hon. mem­ The bill is a plain proposition. In. ber cannot see straight for :five minutes. 1924 the leader of the Opposition intro­ He is looking along crooked lines all duced a bill very hurriedly to amend the through his arguments. Mr. Foster said Sydney Corporation Act. His justifica­ that it was a well-known fact that among tion was that the civic elections were­ some aldermen in the City Council bri­ approaching, and the bill had to be rushed bery was rife and that some of them through. It dealt with the redistribution actually took br~bes on the footpath. If of wards and other matters. I am not I were to stand on the floor of this Hquse blaming the hon. member. It was and say that the Prime Minister was an urgent matter, and had to be in the habit of taking bribes or that rushed through. In this case two­ some other person in a 'high posi­ councils have .decided in their wisdom,. tion in the Nationalist party took as representatives of the ratepayers, bribes my statement would not prove that this is a good proposition. The that he took bribes but it would prove Government has only been asked to­ . that I was a cad and a craven. If any sanction an agreement between the City hon. memiber of this House wants to Council and a suburban council. It make a charge he can make it under would have been worse than foolish to let. privilege on the floor of the House and an election take place just at the time can name the indiv1dual. He can giYe when this amalgamation was suggested,. specific instances and explain the nature and later in the year have to set it aside. of the transaction and if he does· so, no There is no doubt the bill has been intro­ Government could possibly refrain from duced in a hurry, but not more hur­ having a very exhaustive inquiry into riedly than the important amending Act the matter. V>hich was introduced by the leader of Major JARVIE: I would direct your at­ the Opposition just prior to the previous tention, Mr. Speaker, to rthe remark of City Council election. Mr. Michael Burke, that Mr. Bavin is With regard to the point raised by a political' pimp! Mr. Foster, increased values 'must accrue Mr. SPEAKER: Did the hon. member aa the result of the public expenditure ma.ke that remark? of something like £200,000, and it is only Mr. MICHAEL BuRKE : No, I did not rE:asonable that the people whose pro-· make that remark to Mr. Bavin ! perty is increased in value should pay Mr: LAZZARINI: The opponents of something by way of rates towards the the bill have not been concerned as to upkeep of the city. Therefore :from ai whether it is going to benefit the city of purely :financial point of view this ·is a Sydney or the ratepayers of Waterloo, much better proposition for the City but as to whether some Civic 'Reform aldermen or Lahour aldermen will go Council than it looks upon the cold :facts into the City Council. We ·are told by which appear in the bill. There are the very same gentlemen who use these members of the Nationalist party who· arguments against the 'bill that our civic have said to me personally, in the course· life should ibe more free :from political of conversation, that they believe the· influence and yet they can take no other best method of bringing about a Greater :view than a political view. The leader Sydney is by absorption by degrees~ 3312 Sydney Corporation [ ASSE ::-.rnL Y. j (Waterloo llfonicipality) Bill. rather than by forcing certain muni­ Mr. BAVIN: I appeal to the Minis­ -cipalitics in against their will. That is ter's personal sense of fairness. .the opinion held by many members of Mr. LAZZAHINI: I must go on with it! this House. The bill sets out to give Mr. BAVIN: I have just been handed effect to that principle, after an agree­ some amendments, but I only saw the bill ment has been entered into between the tbis morning. I desire an opportunity two bodies concerned, and all the Gov­ oi consulting the persons who re.present .ernment is doing is to give the agree­ the City Council, and also those repre­ ment legislative effect. I think no rea­ senting the municipality of W atei:loo. sonable opposition can be advanced to 1 have not had that opportunity. The the measure. bill embodies a most detailed agreement, Question-That the bill be read a which I have never seen before. Nobody .second time-put. The House divid•:d: knew before this niorning what the con­ Ayes, 41 noes, 27; majority, 14. ttnts of the bill were, or whether the Government intended to ratify the con­ AYES. trnct which was entered into in August Alldis, S,. D. La.zz:nini, C. C. Burke, l'rank Loughlin, P. F. Oi' not. I ask tho Minister whether he J3urke, Michael McClelland, A. is serious in requesting us to discuss :Cahill, .T. J. McGirr, James the. details of this agreement this after­ 'Cann, G. McKell, W. J. noon. Clark, J. A. McTiernan, E. A. .Connell, Major Minahan, P. J . Mr. ]~AZZARIKI: Yes! Davidson, M.A. Murphy, C.H. Mr. BAVIN: Then all I can tell .the Davies, W. 1viurra.y, D. Minister is that every obstacle we can Dunn, Captain Mutch, T. D. put in his way we will put in his way. :Ely, W. T. O'Halloran, R. E. J<'lannery, M. M. O'Hearn, W. F. l':very moment we can delay the passage Gillies, R. T. Quirk, J. of the bill we will delay it. · Goodin, V. W. E. Ratcliffe, W. J. Mr. McTmH?iAN: I r1se to order. I 'Gosling, M. Scully, W. J. submit the hon. member must discuss ·Greig, R. Stokes, P. V. the clause. Hoad, K..O. Stuart-Robertson, R. J. Holdsworth, IV. :rully, J.M. The CnAm~-rAN: Order! The hon. Horsington, E. M. Tellers, member was not discussing the clause '.Kelly, C. A. Booth, G. before. the Committee. I understood he Keegan, T. Lang, J·. T. rose to ask a question o:f the Minister. NOES. The hon. member must now discuss the :Arkins, J. G.D. Hoskins, T. J. short title of t_he bill. Arthur, Dr. R. Jackson, J. Ball, R.. '£. .Jaques, H. V. Mr. BAVIN: Surely I am entitled to Bavin, T. H. .Jarvie, Major explain to the Minister that I have not Bennett, vV. I"ane, A. yet had an opportunity of becoming Bruntnell, A. Main, H. Bruxner, Lt.-Col. Missingham, W. T. acquainted with the contents of the bill. Buttenshaw, E. A. Ness, J. '.l'. It has always been the custom that the Chaffey, Captain Perkins, J. A. leader of the Opposition should be al­ Doe, B. J. Thorby, H. V. C. lowed to do that. The Minister is not Drummond, D. IL Vincent, R. S. J<'itzpatrick, J.C. L. Tellers, acting fairly to this House in going on ]'oster, W. F. Best', E. C. with the bill at this stage. I admit that Jiill, T. H. Reid, A. A. E. E. V. sL:cictly speaking I am not talking about Question so resolved in the affirmative. the clause, but' on every ocasion when I have heard a bill discussed it has been Bill read a second time. the practice to allow an hon. member In Committee: to point out general considerations such Clause 1 (Short title). as I am placing before the Minister. If the Minister is going to take the bill Mr. BAVIN (Ryde) [3.47 p.m.]: through Committee this afternoon we will Does the Minister propose to go on with be quite unable to discuss it. I am only this bill? asking that I should be allowed to carry Mr. LAZZARINI: Yes I : ! out the duty the electors sent me here '' [llfr. Lazzarini. Sydney Corporation [ 11 DEC., 1325.J (Waterloo 1l'Iunicipality) Hill. 3313

to carry out. The Minister does not will take notice of what the leader of im~tenu that it ii; ±air and Just tn,u the Opposition said. Tho 111.mister might Ttiis bill should be taken through Com­ allow me bill to stand over until-'- mittee tl1is afternoon. .I\ either 1 nor any The UHAIHMAN: Order! I have given other hon. member 'has had a chance oi the leader of the Opposition considerable examining its prov1s10ns. The lb11l is a latitude, but I will not permit any fur­ most compEcated one and is of an ex­ ther discussion on that aspect. tremely technical nature, and I ask the Mr. HOSKINS: I am going to say :Minister to give us until Monday to a word and you can do what you like. ::;tudy it. I do not mind devoting the It is a dastardly thing· for members of week-end to the study of the bill and the House to be treated in this way. the agreement. We only got the bill Have we no rights in this House? I this morning and the Minister cannot strongly object to the short title. Water­ })ossibly justify this sort · of thing. I loo is farther away from the city of do not want to obstrud business, but Sydney than either Hedfern or Alexan­ if the bill is going to be proceeded with dria, and it should not be amalgamated I want to do what I can to improve it. with the city of Sydney until those Neither I nor any other member of this municipalities are. House can do anything to help the Min­ J... t.-Colonel BHUXNER (Northern ister if he persists in the attitude he has Tableland) [3.50 p.m.J: This measure taken up. Other members of the House does not concern my colleagues and my­ and myself want to be allowed to dis­ self. The amalgamation of the muni­ .charge the functions we were sent here cipality of Waterloo and the city of to discharge. Sydney is a matter which · affects Mr. LAZZAJUNI: When I say I am going Sydney. What I rose to say is this: -0n with the bill I mean it! I secured the adjournment of the Budget debate yesterday and I thought that we Mr. BAVIN: The Mini.ster accused were going to discuss the Budget to-day. me of being neurotic. If I am neurotic When the Premier moved that Monday it is because I have been trying to keep be taken as an extra sitting day he gave pace with the bills which have been in­ an undertaking that only the business troduced from day to day by different· then before the House would be pro­ Ministers. The Minister c:;innot say this ceeded with. He told us that he was is a matter of such grave urgency that taking Monday in order to get through it must be forced through before Mon­ the Government's programme as soon as

·been taken on. the question. Neither Cann, G. McClelland, A. the aldermen of the city of Sydney nor Clark,J. A. McGirr James Connell, Major ~foKen; w. J. of Waterloo have gone before the elec­ Davjdson, M.A. McTiernan, E. A. tors recently on this question. Did Mr. Davies, W. Minalian, P. J. +,ang mention this proposal in his policy Dunn, Captain Murphy, C. H. speech? Mr. Lang, when he went before Ely,W.T. Murray,D. l!'lannery, M. M. Mutch, T. D. the electors, said that only the proposals Gillies, R. T. o·Halloran, R. E. mentioned in his policy speech would Goodin, V. W. E. O'Hcarn, W. F. be dealt with. Gosling, M. Quirk, J. The CHAIR.MAN: Order! I am reluct­ Road, K. 0. Hatdiffo, W ..J. Holdsworth, W. Scully, W. J. antly compelled to remind the hon. mem­ Keegan, T. _ 8tua1·t-Robertson,R. J. ber that he is not dealing with the short Kelly, C.A. Tully, J.M. title. The hon. member cannot make Lang, J. T. Tellers, a Re~ontl-reading speech now. Lazzarini, C. C. Alldis, S. D. Loughlin, P. F. Horsington, E. M. Lt.-Colonel BRUXNER: On the short title one can deal with the contents of NOES. the bill. I say that the municipality of Arkins, J. G.D. Jaques, H. V. Waterloo should not be amalgamated with Arthur, nr. l't. Jarvie, Major Ball, R. T. Kay,A.D. the city of Sydney until a referendum Bennett, W. Lane, A. has been taken. If that has not got Best, E. C. Lee, J. R.. something to do with the short title I Bruntnell, A. Main, H. do not know what has. Bruxner, Lt.-Col. Missingha.m, W. T. Buttcnshaw, E. A. Perkins, J. A. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. Doe, B. J. Reid, A. A. E. E. V. member must appreciate the fact that Drummond, D. H. Stuart, F. 'N. the only matter which can now be dis­ Fitzpatrick, J.C. L. Vincent, R. S. cussed is whether the short title shall Foster, W. F. Hill, T. H. Tellers, be the short title of the bill. Hoskins,'£. J. Ness, J. T. · Lt.-Colonel BRUXNER: I say it Jackson, J. Thorby, H. V. C. should not be the short title of the bill. Question so resolved in the affirmatiY2. We should not be dealing with a bill of this kind. If the Chairman and the Question-That the clause stand part Minister will not allow us to deal with of the bill-put. The Committee divided: the bill containing fifteen clauses at this A.yes, 39; noes, 28'; majority, 11. stage all we can do is to let the people AYES. of New South Wales know what is being Alldis, S. D. Lang, .J. '£. done in this House. Booth, G. Loughlin, P. F. Mr. McTmRNAN: That has nothing to Burke, l!'rank McClelland, A. do with the short title! Burke, Michael· McGhr, James The CHAIRMAN: Order ! Cahill, .J. J. Me.Kell, W .•T. Cann, G. McTiernan, E. A. Lt.-Colonel BRUXNER: I am not Clark, J. A. Minahan, P . .T. going to pursue my argument. I say Connell, Major Murphy, C. H. that the Government is not treating hon. Davidson, M.A. Mnrray,D. members fairly. To-day we should be Davies, W. Mutch, T. D. Dunn, Captain O'Halloran., R. E. dealing with entirely different business. Ely, W. T. O'Heam, \V. l!'. We should be dealing with the Budget. Flannery, M. M. Quirk, J. Because we protest the Minister acts like Gillies; R. T. Rate.liffro. W .•J. Mussolini and says, "Tffiis bill is going to Goodin, V. W. E. Seully, W. J. Gosling, M. Stuart-Robertson, R. J'. be put through to-day." Holdsworth, W. Tully, J.M. Mr. MoTIERNAN: I move: Horsington, E. M. Tellers, That the question be now put. Kay,A.D. Hoad, K. 0. Keegan, T. Kelly, C. A. The Committee divided: Ayes,· 39; noes, 28; majority, 11. NOES. Arkins, .T. G.D. Best,E.C. AYES. Arthur, Ut. R. Bruntnell, A. T Booth, G. Burke, Michael Ball,R. T. Bruxner, Lt.-Col. Burke, Frank Cahill, J. J. Bennett, W. Buttenshaw, E. A. [Lt.-Oolonel Bruxner. Sydney Corporation [11 DEc., 1925.] (Waterloo 1lfonicipality) BiZL3315

Chaffey, Captain Main,H. 1before the Committee. The principle of Doe,B. J. Missingham, W. T. the referendum has not been provided Drummond, D. H. Ness, J. T. Fitzpatrick, J, C. L. Heid, A. A. E. E. V. for in the bill ! Hill, T. H. Stuart, F. W. Mr. J. R. LEE (Botany) [4.10 p.m.]: Hoskins, T. ,J. Thorby, H. V. C. Jackson, J. Vincent, R. S. I want to move·an amendment providing Jaques, H.'Y. for a referendum 1being itaken rbefore. the Jarvie, Major Tellers, date of the proposed dissolution ·of the KilpatJ·ick, M.· Foster, W. F. Municipality of Waterloo. Lane, A. Perkins, J. A. Mr, LAZZARINI : I take the· poirit of Question so resolved in the affirmative. order· that the principle of this 'bill has 01 a use agreed to. already been agreed to, and that the Clause 2. ( l) The Council of the Muni­ hon. member cannot move an amend­ cipality of Waterloo is hereby dissolved. ment which would have the effect of (2) Subject to this Act, upon the com­ setting that aside. mencement of this Act all laud comprised "'ithi11 the boundaries of the Municipality ' Mr. BAVIN: I hoP.e that you sir, will ·of Waterloo shall he included within and take a different view from that of. the form part of the city, and shall be subject to any Acts, by-laws, and regulat'ions affect­ Minister. It is ridiculous for the Minister ing the city. to ask you to rule that because·the second reading of this bill has been passed· it :Mr. LAZZARINI (Western Suburbs), would be inconsistent with the general Colonial Secretary [4.7 p.m.J: I move: principle of the bill to insert a condi­ 'rhat subclause (l) be struck out and the tion that the measure shall not coine following inserted in lieu thereof :-"(l) The Council of the Municipality of Waterloo shall into operation until a referendum has be dissolYed on the 3rd April, 1926, and tha been taken. Surely we are entitled. to. aldermen now in office may remain in office insert a condition of that sort. We shall until the day next preceding the day of the not 'be doing anything inconsistent with dissolution of the council." the principles of the bill, ibut we .shall This makes provision for the affairs of merely be imposing a condition. If the Municipality of Waterloo being carried on until all arrangements have you rule as the Minister desires it' 'will been eompleted for its absorption 1by the never ·be within your power after a bill Sydney Municipal Council. has once passed the second reading. to Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK (Bathurst) accept an amendment to the effect that [4.8 p.m.]: I desire to know if this some particular provision in a measure proposition is bound 1:P with the pro­ shall not come into operation until a posal which Mr. Jackson proposes to referendum has been talrnn or some other· make that instead of there being two condition has .been complied with. In wards, the present Water loo Municipal­ other words, unless the Government of ity shall, when absorbed, consist of one the day provides in the measure itself ward only. as introduced for the taking of a refeT­ Mr. J,AzZAIUNI: One ward would not endum such a provision can never he in­ give the people of Waterloo the same serted, however much hon. mem'bers may representation as have other wards of desire it. the Municipality of Sydney with the The CHAIRMAN: I can only add to what same population! I said previously with regard to the .pro­ :ilfr .. HOSKINS (Western Suburbs) posed amendment of Mr. Hoskins, that [4.9 p.m.]: I wish to move an amend­ the acceptance of such an amendmeRt ment with the view of having a referen­ would be a direct negation of the pl"in - dum taken in the municipality! ciple of the bill. The principle of the The On.AIRMAN: I cannot entertain the referendum is in complete opposition to. amendment pro;posed to be moved by Mr. Hoskins, because it is not in keeping the principle of the bill. :Rulings ·:have with the provisions of the bill as put been given previously when. similar 3316 Sydney Corporation [ASSE.MBLY.] (lfaterloo Municipality) Bill.

cases have arisen. I will quote one rul­ O'Halloran, R. E. •runy, J.M. J. ing in which an amendment was ruled O'Hearn, Vi'. J<'. . .. Ratcliffe, W. J. Tellers, out of order on the grounds of inelev­ Scully, W. J. Keegan, T. ancy by Mr. Chairman Meagher in 1912: Stuart-Robertson,R.J. Quirk, J. An amendment which provided that the NOES. bill should not come into operation until Arkins, J. G.D. Jackson, J. the question of a reduction in the numhcr Arthur, Dr. R. Jaques, H. V. of membel'S and the question of an in­ Ball, R. T. Kay, A. D. ···. ''' creased allowance to members shall have Ba•,rin, T. R. Lane, A. l'een submitted to a referendum was beyond Bennett, W. Lee, J. R. the scope of the order of leave and ¥('US not Best, E. C. Main, H. I'elevant. Bnmtnell, A. Missingham, W. T. Bruxner, Lt.-Col. Ness, J. T.- A similar ruling was given °in 1903 by But.tenshaw, E. A. Perkins, J. A. Mr. Meagher, wi10 was acting as Ohair~ Chaffey, Captain Reid, A. A. E. E. V. man of Committees, and was upheld by Doe, B. J. Stuart, F. W. Mr. Speaker and t!here is also a ruling Drummond, D. H. '.Phorby, H. V. C. Fitzpatrick, J. C. L. Vincent, R. S. ··1:, on the same poi!1t by Mr. 1Speaker Foster, W. F. Tellers, McCourt. I will quote another ruling as Hill, T. H. Jarvie, Major •being quite consistent with the decision Hoskins, T. J. Kilpatrick, M. I am now giving. Mr. Levy in conne·~­ Question so resolved in the affirmative. tion with the Western Lands (Amend­ Question-That the words proposed to ment) Bill in l!Jl1 ruled as follows:- be struck out stand part of the clause-­ The principle of the ballot which the hon. put.-The Committee divided: member seeks to introduce into this dau8n is one which is quite in conflict with the Ayes, 28; noes, 39; majority, 11. Western Lands Act and with the whole of AYES. the provision8 of the biil now before th~ ·'.. Arkins, J. G.D. Jaques, I-I. V. '. Committee. Arthur, Dr. R. Jarvie, Major '. I lrnve no hesitation in saying that I Ball, R. T. Kilpatrick, M. cannot entertain the proposed amcnd­ Bavin, T. R. Lane, A. Bennett, W. Main,H . .ment. Best, E. C. Missingham, W. T. Mr. Mo TI.EHNAN: I move: Bruntnell, A. Ness, J. T. Bruxner, Lt.-Col. Perkins, J. A. 'I'hat the question be now put. Buttenshaw, E. A. Reid, A. A. E. E. V. Mr. BAVIN: I desire tu morn dissent Chaffey, Captain Stuart, F. W. -from your ruling-- Doe, B. J. Thorby, H. V. C. Drummond, D. H. The CnAIRMA:i: Order! I called the :B'oster, W. F. Tellers, Attorney-General, who moved "That the Hill, T. H. Jackson, J. ·question 1be now put'' and I have no alter­ Hoskins, 'I'. J. Vincent, R S. ' -, native but to forthwith put that motion NOES. Alldis, S. D. Kelly, C. A. to the Committee. Booth, G. Lang, J. T. ,'fl The Committee dividod: Burke, Frank Lazzarini, C. C. ·" Burke, Michael Loughlin, P. F. _Ayes, 38, noes, 31; maiority, 7 Cahill, J. J. McClelland, A. AYES. Cann, G. McKell, W. J. Clark, J. A. McTiernan, E. A . .:Alldis, S. D. Gosling, M. Conuell, Major Minahan, P. J. Booth, G. Hoad, K. 0. Davidson, M.A. Murray, D. Burke, Frank Holdsworth, W. Davies, W. Mutch, T. D . .Burke, Michael Horsington, E. M. Dunn, Captain O'Halloran, R. E. ·.cahill, J. J. Kelly, C. A. Ely, W. T. O'Hearn, W. F. Cann, G. . Lang, J. T. Flannery, M. M. Quirk, J. Clark, J. A. Lazzal'ini, C. C. Gillies, R. T. Rat.rliffe. W. J. 'Connell, Major Loughlin, P. 1''. Goodin, V. W. E. Scully, W .•T. Davidson. M.A. McC!ella~l, A. Gosling, M. Stuart-Robertson, H.J. Davie!!, W. McGirr, James Road, K. 0. Tully, J.M. Dunn, Captain McKell, W. J. Holdsworth, W. Tellers, Ely, W. T. McTiernan, E. A. Horsington, E. M. Kny, A. D. Flannery, M. M. Minalrnn, P ..J. Keegan, T. McGirr, James Gillies, R. T. Murrny, D. Goodin, V. W. E. Muteh, T. D. Question so resolved in the negative. ' [The Chairman. Sydney Corporation [11 DEC., 1925.] nratarloo Mun-icipal,ity) Bill. 3317

Question~That the words proposed point 'of view, and not out of any dis- to be inserted he so inserted-put. The respect to you, that I move that .the Committee divided: matter be submitted to the Speaker. Ayes, 39; noes, 27; majority, 12. The CHAJBMAN: The decision I am AYES. about to g·ive is buttressed by standing Alldis, S. D. Kelly, C. A. order 162, which is quite free from any Booth, G. Lang, J. T. ambiguity. It says: Burke, }'rank Lazzarini, C. C. If any objection is taken to a· ruling or Burke, Michael Loughlin, P. l!'. deeision of tlw Chairman of Committees, Cahill, J. J. McClelland, A. such objeet!on must be taken at once; and Cann, G. McGirr, James having been stated in writing, and if thu Connell, Ma:jor McKell, W. J. Committee so decide (no debate being al­ Davidson, M. A .. McTiernan, E. A. lowed, except a statement of the objection, Davies, W. Minahan, P. J. limited to ten minutes), the Chainhan Dunn, Captain Murray,D. E.hall leaYe the chair :m own thing more unreasonable, unwcildy and home and who desires to remain Lhere futile. lt may 1be a reasonable thing to will not derive any advantag'e from the extend the area of the city, ·but any increase in the value of prop·:rty. Ou proposal of that kind should ·be consid­ account of the change which has taken ered in connection with ,the greater Syd­ place in the views of th-: people who will ney scheme. Jt is impossible to under­ •be affected by this 'bill some provision stand how the Minic>ter could have in­ should be made to enable them to say troduced this bill after the recent an­ whether they still desire to be associated nouncements made 1hy two Minister;; with the city of Sydney. If there is a that it is proposed next session to go on majority in favour of joining up with · '';ith the Greater Sydney bill. When tha1; the city the scheme can be put into effect.· bill is introduced the whole of the areas There are some very g·ood proposals in contiguous to the city will :be considered the bill and I have not so far expressed :ind such portions a6 can :be properly any opposition to them, but I am being included will be embraced in the more or less forced into the position of greater Syd1iey schmne. But to take opposing the bill altogether because I a nnmicipRlity like this which only have been denied an opportunity to move touches the :bounda\·y of the city at one an amendment which will enable the rate­ point and make such special .concessions payers to say whether they Gtill wish the to the rate>payers of that .municipality is proposed change to be made. 'The local unscientific and is likely to result in government authorities have postponed inefficient nmnicipal government and to the annual elections until the 19th in­ retard and hamper the movement towards stant, and a ;referendum "could very a Greater Sydney. The present boun­ conveniently be taken on election day. daries of the city arc not necessarily I wish to move an addition to sub­ final and correct, and it is quite possi­ clause (1) to provide that the new boun­ ble rt;hat these ·boundaries should be ex-· daries shall not come int9 effect until a tended, ihut the extens.ions should not referendum of the ratepayers of the take place in this way. If this bill ifl municipality of Waterloo has been taken passed hon. members who €CC the plan of ou 19th December. the new boundaries will be staggered to The CHAllnrAN:. I could not accept discover what has ·been the result of the such an amendment. course that has been adopted. Mr. BA VIN (Ryde) ro.20 p.m.]: I We have been denounced for obstruct­ have a map before me setting out .the ing this measure but we have merely lbounda·ries of the municipality of ;Water­ sought to obtain sufficient time for its loo which s-110ws clearly how unfair and proper consideration. The Minister re~ unreasonable this proposal is. The iboun­ jected my reasonable proposal that the daries set out in clause 3 and the sched­ consideration of the hill should be de­ ule when compared with the boundaries ferred until Monda,y, btit as matters stand of the city show that there is only one we probably shall have an opportunity of iioint at which the 'boundaries of W atcr­ dealing with some of the provisions of the Joo municipality of Redfern. I am sure JI.fr. BA VIN: The protest which hns it would puzzle the Minister .to go to been made by the Op.position will ?.t lea>it Waterloo from S.rdney without crossing have had the result of extending· thG 80me other municipality. The map time for the consideration o.f the bill by ~hows '.how unscientific this proposal is. l~ ·hour. The only rnsult of the Min­ It will result in two portions of the city ister's unreasonable nction h~1s bren to [.Jfr. J. R. Lee. Svdney Corporation [11 DEc., 1925.J (Waterloo 11fonicipality) Bill. 3321

. delay the passing of the bill and when­ city ratepayed to aco€pt it. I appeal ever Ministers deprive hon. member~ of to the }linister once more not to :torce an opportunity to find out what is in the passage of the bill.. a bill :before it is passed I shall put every Mr. THORBY (W ammerawa) [5.34 o'bstacle in the way. The result in this p.rn.J: I desire to draw the Mihister's. .case can harTto attempted to· a majority of the City Council has as­ speak on the bill. I would have liked sented to it does not carry any weight to address the Committee on dause 2, with me at all. That it has been assented but on account of that having :been to .by the Labour aldermen of the City "gagged" through, without any oppor­ Council is no ground for asking for con­ tunity for discussio11, I am obliged to fidence in a proposal. ,so far as• Water­ make my representations upon subclause 1 loo is concerned, they have everything (4) of clause 3. Nhat I particularly wish to gain and nothing to lose by this to point out to the Minister iG that when measure. One cannot wonder that they the bill becomes law and a proclamation is issued, you immediateb· throw the agreed fo the proposal; hut I blame the by-laws in existence in the city to-day Government for making itself a party to over the whole of the new territory. giving them something to which they There are many manufacturing, produc­ may not ibe entitled. I do not say now ing and other !businesses which directly that they are not entitled to it for I affect our interests, and have for genera­ have not had a chance to ascertain the tions been working under the by-laws of effect of the measure. It will cost the the Waterloo and Botany Councils. citizens of Sydney £~00,000. I do not They will now be brought under the know tha.t the citizens of Sydney want by-laws and regulations g·overning th€ it, and I do not know that the people City Council, many of which will seri· of Waterloo want it, either. ·r know that ously ]rnndicap those establishments the '\fatcrloo Council agreed to i.t, 1but it handling primary produce in the are.':!' was elected three years ago, and in the concerned. I want the Minister io give ordinary course its life would have ex­ us an opportunity to go through the by­ pired by now. Tho fact that the agree­ la:ws and regulations of the City Coun­ ment was made •by that council is no cil, to see what effect they will have on justification for asking me to 'believe that the business interests handling primary the citizens of Waterloo arc in favour produce in New South Wales, particu- of this proposal. I am reminded that the 1arly in the new area which is to be council had not the proposal before it at brought under the City Council. the time it was elected, nor had the An HoN. MEMDEH: To what interests ci.ty aldermen any authority from the are you referring? 3322 · Privilege. (ASSEMBLY.) Adjournment.

Mr. THORBY: The whole of the 'busi­ with in Committee to the report stage, ness interests that are handling primary on Monday the 14th December, and that :produce in that area, and to those second­ the question will be put at 12.30 p.m. on ary industries which arc converting that date. primary preduce into manufaotured ADJOURNMENT. goods. An HoN. M1rnmm: How will they ·be RIGHTS OF MEMBERS. handicapped? Motion (by Mr. LANG) proposed: Mr. THORBY: I have already stated That this House do no adjourn. that I am not in a position to say. You Mr. ARKINS (St. George) . [5.38 have •not given me an opportunity to p.m.J: I want to pomt out that I and ascertain. All I am asking for is time other hon. members on this side· of the to go through the by-laws and regulations House have been refused rights which of the City Council. On :Monday morn­ every member of Parliament should ing I shall ·be prepared to say how they .have. These have been abrogated by the will be handicapped. I am not prepared Chairman of Committees, and I rose just to sit 'hack and see all the primary and now by way of privilege to protect hon. manufacturing :industries of Waterloo members of this House. [House handicapped by the by-laws and regula­ counted.] .tiuns of the City Council through one Motion (by Mr. FRANK BURKE) nega­ act of this Chamber, simply ibooause you tived: are not prepared to give us time to con­ That the hon. member be not turthfr heard. siider those by-laws and regulations. Mr. ARKINS: I want to draw atten­ Mr. LAZZARINI : This clause will be tion to this abrogation of the rights of allowed to stand over until Monday hon. members which is growing up. The morning! E'11ening News a fow·days ago made this Mr. THORBY: I am satisfied now statement: that the Minister lrns given that assur­ . The Assembly has. ceased to be a delibe­ ance, but I want to say that it was not rative chamber· for the time being. Even when the Minister in charge graciously forthcoming when it was asked for. It permits discussion, the Chairman of Com­ was obtained only under pressure, and mittees has a way of ruling amendments practically by force. out of order on grounds that amaze con­ Progress reported. stitutionalists. I venture to say this matter is ·all im­ PRIVILEGE. portant. It is not the rights of one Mr. ARKINS: I rise to privilege. The member or one party that are concerned House ought to be-- but the rights of every member. Here Mr. SPEAJrnR: Order! If the hon. mem­ we have the spectacle of the leader ber ·rises, to privilege he must move a of the Opposition asking the Com­ motion. mittee to take a vote .on a ·motion Mr. ARKINS: I move: to dissent from the Chairman's ruling, w:hich was refused by the Chairman That the Chairman of Committees was .entirely out of order in refusing to takP on a very 'debatu:ble technicality. See­ the motion of dissent from the Chairman's ing what was taking place I took the r~l~ng moved by myself, in respect of a de· earliest opportunity of moving a further e1s10n he gave on a motion moved by Mr. Bnxin. motion of dissent. I even went so far as to move it when the Committee was Mr. SPEAKER·: ·Order! That is not a question of privilege. in division. The Chairman ruled Mr. Bavin's motion out of order on the ground that he did not take objeetion at A·L:UOCA TION OF TIME FOR DEB.ATE. the earliest opportunity, but I say he ·.Mr. LANG: I desire to give notice, could not have. objected a moment sooner under standing order 175B; that-the Syd­ than he did. It was impossible for him , ney Corporation Amendment (Munici­ to have done so. I went to the utmost pality of Waterloo) Bill will be dealt Hmits permitted nni!el" parliamentary- [Mr. Thorby. Industrial Arbitration [14 DEC., 1925.] · (Amendment) Bill. 3323

pr·ccedure, and when we were in division Clause 17. Section 24B of the Principal I moved my motion, which was written Act is amended by omitting all words after the words "abovementioned purposes" in out, and pas~ed it to the Chairman. In paragraph ( d) and substituting therefor ~pite of that the process of elimination the words .''shall be subject to the provisions went on. The voice of the Opposition of this Act: Provided that any· award re­ has been destroyed in this House. This gulating conditions of employment of such employees may be made without the · !imita­ i~ being done at the end of a session tion of hours prescribed by the Forty-four­ which· will be recorded in the annals of Hours Week Act, 1925." Parliament as a disgrace to constitu­ The Hon. E. H. F ARHAH: This is the tional -gonrnmen t. Hon. members sup­ clause dealing with rural workers. The­ pcrting the Government are living in a history of rural workers in connection fool's paradise. In a few short years with arbitration has been the history 0£ they will be in Opposition, and they will an attempt by many Governments to deal then have their own political heads cut with the problem. After the Board .of off with the axe which they have ground Trade had for some years declined to use to use on the Opposition of to-day. It is its powers in that direction, the late Gov-· a..'Y:ery serious matter if an hon. member ernment amended the law so as to place cannot move dissent from the ruling of the rural workers outside of the scope the Chairman. You, :Mr. Speaker, are of the Act. This clause proposes to the custodian of the rights and privileges bring rural workers back under arbitra­ of this House, and I put it to you, sir, tion, and give to them the same. rights tLat such conduct is an abrogation of and conditions as ordinary industrial constitutional government as constitu­ workers have. The difficulty in regard to tional government is known to British rural workers is that whereas an award people. I say it is well that it was done can be made fixing hours in connection by a Minister named Lazzarini. If he with secondary industries, and those i,; not a prototype of '.Mussolini I do not .industries can pass on to the public any know who -is. To-da;v this House is not reasonable increase in the cost of produc­ a deliberative Chamber. It is· not a tion, in rural industries that cannot be House of Parliament. Parliament to­ done. They are subject to climatic con­ day exists only in the caucus room of the ditions, to a consideration· of the world's Labour party, and the voice of the parity, and to other circumstances that do people is unheard in this Chamber owing not operata with ordinary industries t') the action of men who continually in connection with which an award can prate about and preach democracy. be made. If an award were made for Question resolved .in the affirmative. rural industries and a drought over­ House adjourned at 5.50 p.m. took one part of the State, there would be very little or no work· available for workers in that part of ,the 'State. There would be no harvesting· of ·wheat, 1,.egi1,;latinc ~ouudl. whi'Ch represents the bulk of rural em­ ployees' work in the wheat districts. JJlonday, 14 December, 1925. You· would thus tie the hands of farmers in that district who, if left free, might be able to keep·their hands going with inter­ lndustriol Arbitration (Amendment) Biil~Adjournmrnt (Order o! Business-Prorog-ation). mitt~nt work. Under a prescribed·wage, which, ·though :fair under normal ·condi­ tions would be unfair under abnorm:al The PRESIDENT took the chair. conditions, the-farmer could.not keep his employees on. The clause would· be un­ INDUSTRIAL ARBITRATION (AMEND­ fair to the· employee, because,- generally ·MENT) BILh speaking, the employee ·resides with t~e . In Committee (consideration resumed farmer in a cottage on the- farm,' and if from 11th December, vide page· 3282): the farmer· cannot em-ploy him he has to Clause 16, as amended, postponed. br('lak up his home and go- to andther·part