Second Session, 42nd Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tursday, May 13, 2021 Morning Sitting Issue No. 69

THE HONOURABLE , SPEAKER

ISSN 1499-2175 PROVINCE OF (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC

Second Session, 42nd Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Raj Chouhan

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Training...... Hon. Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries...... Hon. Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Housing ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Minister of State for Child Care...... Hon. Minister of Citizens’ Services...... Hon. Minister of Education ...... Hon. Minister of Energy, Mines and Low Carbon Innovation ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy...... Hon. Minister of Finance ...... Hon. Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ...... Hon. Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations...... Hon. Minister of Health and Minister Responsible for Francophone Afairs...... Hon. Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation...... Hon. Minister of State for Trade...... Hon. Minister of Labour ...... Hon. Minister of Mental Health and Addictions...... Hon. Minister of Municipal Afairs ...... Hon. Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ...... Hon. Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction...... Hon. Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport ...... Hon. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon. Minister of State for Infrastructure ...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Ofcial Opposition...... Leader of the Tird Party ...... Deputy Speaker...... Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel...... Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services...... Artour Sogomonian Clerk of Committees...... Jennifer Arril Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ...... Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst...... Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms...... Greg Nelson ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Alexis, Pam (BC NDP) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Abbotsford-Mission...... Anderson, Brittny (BC NDP) ...... Nelson-Creston ...... Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal Party)...... Penticton Abbotsford West...... Michael de Jong, QC Babchuk, Michele (BC NDP)...... North Island Boundary-Similkameen...... Bailey, Brenda (BC NDP)...... –False Creek Burnaby–Deer Lake...... Hon. Anne Kang Bains, Hon. Harry (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Burnaby-Edmonds...... Hon. Raj Chouhan Banman, Bruce (BC Liberal Party) ...... Abbotsford South Burnaby-Lougheed...... Hon. Katrina Chen Beare, Hon. Lisa (BC NDP) ...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Burnaby North ...... Begg, Garry (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Guildford Cariboo-Chilcotin ...... Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...... Peace River South Cariboo North...... Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal Party)...... Prince George–Valemount Chilliwack ...... Brar, Jagrup (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Chilliwack-Kent ...... Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal Party) ...... Surrey South Columbia River–Revelstoke ...... Chandra Herbert, Spencer (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–West End Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...... Chant, Susie (BC NDP) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Coquitlam-Maillardville ...... Hon. Selina Robinson Chen, Hon. Katrina (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby-Lougheed Courtenay-Comox...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Chouhan, Hon. Raj (BC NDP)...... Burnaby-Edmonds Cowichan Valley ...... Sonia Furstenau Chow, Hon. George (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Fraserview Delta North...... Hon. Ravi Kahlon Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal Party)...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Delta South ...... Conroy, Hon. Katrine (BC NDP)...... Kootenay West Esquimalt-Metchosin ...... Hon. Mitzi Dean Coulter, Dan (BC NDP) ...... Chilliwack Fraser-Nicola ...... Cullen, Hon. Nathan (BC NDP) ...... Stikine Kamloops–North Tompson ...... Davies, Dan (BC Liberal Party)...... Peace River North Kamloops–South Tompson...... de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal Party)...... Abbotsford West Kelowna–Lake Country ...... Norm Letnick Dean, Hon. Mitzi (BC NDP) ...... Esquimalt-Metchosin Kelowna-Mission ...... Renee Merrifeld D’Eith, Bob (BC NDP) ...... Maple Ridge–Mission Kelowna West ...... Dix, Hon. Adrian (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Kingsway Kootenay East...... Doerkson, Lorne (BC Liberal Party) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Kootenay West...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Donnelly, Fin (BC NDP) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Langford–Juan de Fuca ...... Hon. John Horgan Dykeman, Megan (BC NDP)...... Langley East Langley ...... Eby, Hon. David, QC (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Langley East...... Elmore, Mable (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Kensington Maple Ridge–Mission...... Bob D’Eith Farnworth, Hon. Mike (BC NDP) ...... Port Coquitlam Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...... Hon. Lisa Beare Fleming, Hon. Rob (BC NDP) ...... Victoria–Swan Lake Mid Island–Pacifc Rim...... Hon. Josie Osborne Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ...... Cowichan Valley Nanaimo...... Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Glumac, Rick (BC NDP) ...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... Greene, Kelly (BC NDP) ...... Richmond-Steveston Nechako Lakes...... Halford, Trevor (BC Liberal Party)...... Surrey–White Rock Nelson-Creston ...... Heyman, Hon. George (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Fairview New Westminster...... Hon. Jennifer Whiteside Horgan, Hon. John (BC NDP) ...... Langford–Juan de Fuca North Coast ...... Kahlon, Hon. Ravi (BC NDP) ...... Delta North North Island...... Kang, Hon. Anne (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby–Deer Lake North Vancouver–Lonsdale...... Hon. Bowinn Ma Kirkpatrick, Karin (BC Liberal Party)...... West Vancouver–Capilano North Vancouver–Seymour...... Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal Party)...... Shuswap Oak Bay–Gordon Head...... Hon. Murray Rankin, QC Lee, Michael (BC Liberal Party)...... Vancouver-Langara Parksville-Qualicum...... Adam Walker Leonard, Ronna-Rae (BC NDP)...... Courtenay-Comox Peace River North ...... Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kelowna–Lake Country Peace River South ...... Lore, Grace (BC NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill Penticton ...... Ma, Hon. Bowinn (BC NDP)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Port Coquitlam...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Malcolmson, Hon. Sheila (BC NDP)...... Nanaimo Port Moody–Coquitlam...... Mark, Hon. Melanie (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Powell River–Sunshine Coast...... Hon. Nicholas Simons Mercier, Andrew (BC NDP) ...... Langley Prince George–Mackenzie...... Merrifeld, Renee (BC Liberal Party)...... Kelowna-Mission Prince George–Valemount ...... Shirley Bond Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kamloops–North Tompson Richmond North Centre...... Morris, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Richmond-Queensborough...... Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal Party)...... Cariboo North ...... Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)...... Saanich North and the Islands Richmond-Steveston ...... Osborne, Hon. Josie (BC NDP)...... Mid Island–Pacifc Rim Saanich North and the Islands ...... Paddon, Kelli (BC NDP) ...... Chilliwack-Kent Saanich South ...... Hon. Lana Popham Paton, Ian (BC Liberal Party) ...... Delta South Shuswap...... Popham, Hon. Lana (BC NDP)...... Saanich South Skeena...... Ralston, Hon. Bruce, QC (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Stikine...... Hon. Nathan Cullen Rankin, Hon. Murray, QC (BC NDP) ...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Surrey-Cloverdale ...... Rice, Jennifer (BC NDP) ...... North Coast Surrey-Fleetwood...... Jagrup Brar Robinson, Hon. Selina (BC NDP)...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey–Green Timbers...... Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal Party)...... Skeena Surrey-Guildford...... Routledge, Janet (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby North Surrey-Newton...... Hon. Harry Bains Routley, Doug (BC NDP)...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Panorama ...... Russell, Roly (BC NDP)...... Boundary-Similkameen Surrey South ...... Rustad, John (BC Liberal Party)...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Whalley ...... Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Sandhu, Harwinder (BC NDP) ...... Vernon-Monashee Surrey–White Rock ...... Sharma, Niki (BC NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Vancouver-Fairview...... Hon. George Heyman Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal Party)...... Kootenay East Vancouver–False Creek...... Simons, Hon. Nicholas (BC NDP)...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Vancouver-Fraserview...... Hon. George Chow Sims, Jinny (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Panorama Vancouver-Hastings ...... Singh, Aman (BC NDP) ...... Richmond-Queensborough Vancouver-Kensington...... Singh, Rachna (BC NDP)...... Surrey–Green Timbers Vancouver-Kingsway...... Hon. Adrian Dix Starchuk, Mike (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale Vancouver-Langara...... Michael Lee Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kelowna West Vancouver–Mount Pleasant...... Hon. Melanie Mark Stone, Todd (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kamloops–South Tompson Vancouver–Point Grey ...... Hon. David Eby, QC Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal Party) ...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Quilchena...... , QC Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal Party)...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver–West End ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Walker, Adam (BC NDP)...... Parksville-Qualicum Vernon-Monashee ...... Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal Party) ...... Richmond North Centre Victoria–Beacon Hill...... Whiteside, Hon. Jennifer (BC NDP) ...... New Westminster Victoria–Swan Lake...... Hon. Rob Fleming Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal Party)...... Vancouver-Quilchena West Vancouver–Capilano...... Yao, Henry (BC NDP) ...... Richmond South Centre West Vancouver–Sea to Sky......

Party Standings: BC NDP 57; BC Liberal Party 28; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS

Tursday, May 13, 2021 Morning Sitting Page

Routine Business

Introductions by Members...... 1817

Tributes ...... 1817 Johnson Su-Sing Chow T. Wat

Introduction and First Reading of Bills...... 1817 Bill 10 — Municipal Afairs Statutes Amendment Act, 2021 Hon. J. Osborne

Statements (Standing Order 25B) ...... 1818 M.K. Lam T. Wat Langley Sustainable Agriculture Foundation M. Dykeman Roland Phillips T. Stone Kindness Chain Chilliwack Association K. Paddon Hul’q’umi’num’ language street signage project in Duncan S. Furstenau Social justice class at Dr. Charles Best Secondary School R. Glumac

Oral Questions...... 1820 COVID-19 response for tourism attractions S. Bond Hon. M. Mark T. Wat Youth addiction services and youth stabilization care legislation S. Furstenau Hon. S. Malcolmson COVID-19 circuit breaker relief grant for businesses T. Stone Hon. R. Kahlon K. Kirkpatrick M. Lee B. Banman COVID-19 response for small businesses J. Tegart Hon. R. Kahlon

Tabling Documents...... 1825 Crown Proceeding Act, report, fscal year ended March 31, 2020

Reports from Committees...... 1825 Ombudsperson Appointment Committee, May 2021 J. Routledge B. Banman

Motions Without Notice...... 1826 Appointment of Ombudsperson J. Routledge Orders of the Day

Committee of the Whole House...... 1826 Bill 13 — Employment Standards Amendment Act (No. 2), 2021 G. Kyllo Hon. H. Bains S. Furstenau

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply ...... 1832 Estimates: Ministry of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation Hon. M. Rankin P. Milobar J. Rustad 1817

THURSDAY, MAY 13, 2021 Introduction and First Reading of Bills Te House met at 10:05 a.m. BILL 10 — MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2021

Routine Business Hon. J. Osborne presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Municipal Prayers and refections: B. Banman. Afairs Statutes Amendment Act, 2021.

Introductions by Members Hon. J. Osborne: I move the bill be introduced and read a frst time now. P. Milobar: As we head into the busy estimates time in I’m pleased to introduce Bill 10. Tis bill amends the this chamber and in other Houses in the building, we all Community Charter, the Local Government Act, the know how much we rely on our staf — our researchers, Municipalities Enabling and Validating Act (No. 4) and our communications staf — to do the great work to sup- the Vancouver Charter. Local governments have been on port us in the job on behalf of all the citizens of British the front lines of this pandemic, providing people in their Columbia. Today I want to take just a moment to recog- communities with the supports and services that they need nize that in the gallery today, we have some of those hard- to stay safe and keep their families together. working, dedicated staf for our caucus. Tis bill proposes amendments that will help them con- We have Sean Roberts, who was born and raised in Vic- tinue to serve the people by ensuring that local govern- toria and is a local entrepreneur. David Decolongon grew ments have the authorities they need to efectively govern up in East Van but has moved to Victoria since 2016. Abi- their communities through COVID-19 pandemic gail Uher moved to Victoria in ’19, and in fact, started response and recovery. Te pandemic has taught us a lot university at age 16 — a very talented young woman. about what really matters to British Columbians, including Stephanie Marshall-White is a big ALS advocate and has giving people access to the business of their local gov- lived in Victoria since 2018. ernment, regardless of the circumstances. If passed, these Marissa Olsen started with us in 2014 and actually, in amendments will provide permanent authorities to enable her spare time, works in a group home. Ryan Mitton star- local governments to hold electronic meetings and elec- ted working with us in 2016. He graduated from the Lon- tronic public hearings with specifc transparency require- don School of Economics and is a Model UN alumnus. ments. Andrew Reeve, for the past three years, has been a chair [10:10 a.m.] of a non-proft that provides transitional housing and life Tese amendments will be brought into force by reg- skills programming to youth at risk of homelessness. Sam ulation later, once circumstances related to the pandemic Arno Burgess wanted to work in politics because his have eased. Te proposed amendments would also provide grandfather, who started as a political writer, became a continuing legal efect for the unique, one-time local gov- Swedish ambassador to countries all over the world. ernment fnancial measures and the corresponding repay- Tese young people do great work on our behalf. Teir ment obligations, which were authorized in 2020 due to tireless and dedicated work is very appreciated. I would the pandemic. Tis will move the authorities from a min- ask the House to please make welcome our talented group isterial order into a more permanent legislative framework of 20- to 39-year-old kids from the basement. so those authorities can wind down as originally intended. It will add new ministerial regulation authorities to Tributes enable the minister to address urgent and unique local government fnancial challenges and election-related mat- JOHNSON SU-SING CHOW ters in special circumstances. Tey’ll remove some oper- ational barriers for improvement districts, which were T. Wat: It is with a heavy heart that I just learned of highlighted during the pandemic. Lastly, the amendments the passing of my friend, and a renowned Chinese literati will expand eligibility for mail ballot voting by removing painter, Mr. Johnson Su-Sing Chow. Te 99-year-old artist, legislated restrictions around who is permitted to vote by who came to Vancouver four decades ago, is widely known a mail ballot in local elections, including by-elections. for his passion in the classics, poetry, calligraphy, land- Local governments have demonstrated their adaptab- scape and bird and fower ink painting. He is also the ility and their resilience in continuing to efectively lead founding president of the Chinese Canadian Artists Fed- their communities throughout the challenging circum- eration. stances presented in the pandemic. Tese amendments My thoughts and prayers are with his family, his stu- build on those experiences, and they ensure that sufcient dents and his friends. 1818 British Columbia Debates Thursday, May 13, 2021 authorities for local governance operations as well as fn- LANGLEY SUSTAINABLE ancial and election matters are in place as we look ahead. AGRICULTURE FOUNDATION

Mr. Speaker: Te question is frst reading of the bill. M. Dykeman: Hon. Speaker, thank you for the oppor- tunity to rise in the House today to tell you about a won- Motion approved. derful organization in my community. Te Langley Sustainable Agriculture Foundation, or Hon. J. Osborne: I move that the bill be placed on the LSAF, is a non-proft organization that was founded by orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of nine local volunteers in 2011. Te township of Langley has the House afer today. a land mass of 122 square miles, with over 75 percent with- in the agriculture land reserve. Bill 10, Municipal Afairs Statutes Amendment Act, Trough workshops and other initiatives, LSAF brings 2021, introduced, read a frst time and ordered to be together farmers, academics, government ofcials and placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next other passionate individuals to strengthen food and farm- sitting of the House afer today. ing in Langley East and neighbouring communities. [10:15 a.m.] Statements Under the guidance of board members Dave Mel- (Standing Order 25B) nychuk, Ava Reeve, Nancy Clark, Carol Paulson, Myles Lamont, Gary Jones, Emma Brice and John Scholtens, they M.K. LAM work hard to educate the public on farming, increase pub- lic awareness of the importance of agriculture, encourage T. Wat: I rise today to pay tribute to a former con- support of local food production, educate, and encourage stituent of mine and a beloved community member, Mr. sustainable land and stewardship practices. Mo Kwong Lam, dearly known as M.K. M.K. was born in One example of the fantastic work this organization Shanghai and raised in Hong Kong. Tere he met Marian has undertaken includes the Langley ecological services Lee, and they were married at St. John’s Cathedral in 1979. initiative, a pilot project which works with local farmers Tey had their son, Jason, in 1982, and the family immig- to protect and enhance natural areas on their land. Now rated to Vancouver in 1993. M. K. welcomed his grandson, in its third year of operation, 11 farmers along Bertrand Jake, in 2017. Creek are participating. Te Langley ecological services No matter how busy his work could be, he would always initiative is the frst program of its kind on B.C.’s west take his wife, son, daughter-in-law and grandson with him coast to reward farmers for maintaining eco-friendly to travel to diferent places. Tose who know M.K. well areas on their lands. know that he liked to be among people. He was forthright, Such practices can be costly, and the ecological services generous and treated others with sincerity. As a result, he initiative was created to help farmers bear the cost of keep- made many good friends. Brothers and sisters at church ing waterways, forests and other ecologically sensitive call M.K. by name — in Chinese, meaning boss or big areas clean and healthy for current and future generations. brother — as a gesture of endearment. Our community is fortunate to have such passionate M.K. was also a talented businessman. Upon immigrat- volunteers dedicated to promoting, educating and improv- ing to Vancouver, he founded the JBC Travel Alliance of ing agriculture and its stewardship. Canada and had been serving as the CEO of the group. He was also enthusiastic about charitable and social services, ROLAND PHILLIPS having served as the president and as a council member of the Vancouver Cathay Lions Club and a council member T. Stone: All across British Columbia, in cities, towns of the B.C. Chinese Business Development Association. and villages, community spirit doesn’t just happen. Looking back at M.K.’s life, it was full of wonderful Instead, it is built over time by dedicated, selfess residents chapters. Sadly, in the company of his family in Richmond who are determined to be diference-makers in the com- Hospital, he departed peacefully on April 5 at the age of munities they call home. 69. My heart goes out to his family and to our community, Today I would like to introduce everyone in the cham- who have lost a great leader and community advocate. ber to one such individual in the village of Chase, Mr. I ask all the members of this House to join me in sharing Roland Phillips, a retired Canadian Forces veteran who my deepest condolences to M.K.’s family, friends and com- absolutely embodies the spirit of service to others. Born munity. on Prince Edward Island, Roland, who is afectionately known as Rollie, will be celebrating his 85th birthday on May 28. Afer joining the Queen’s Own Rifes in 1954, Rol- lie went on to a distinguished military career, serving our nation as an airborne pilot and parachuter. He also served Thursday, May 13, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1819

on several dangerous but critical peacekeeping missions cult times, donors and businesses, like Freshslice in Gar- until his discharge in 1980 while posted in Chilliwack. rison and Pabla Curry House, have made it possible for Even afer Rollie and his wife of 63 years, Dolores, lef hundreds of meals to be delivered to people who need Chilliwack for Chase, the man refused to slow down, them, free of charge. becoming active in the local branch of the Royal Canadian I was inspired when I saw this work and even more so Legion, where his natural leadership skills were put to when I had the chance to speak with the family who star- good work. In fact, he even took on the role of sergeant- ted it all. I want to acknowledge and share for the record at-arms at the Chase Legion. Known for his regular visits the names for those who work as directors of this grass- with shut-in veterans, Rollie’s devotion and care for veter- roots organization that does so much: president and exec- ans extended to spouses and dependents while he presided utive director, Zeeshan Khan; and the board of directors, over the colour party for the funerals and memorials of GulRukh Zeeshan, Rashida Rana, Shireen Khan, Umar many veterans. Farooqui, Tariq Yaqub and Salman Ranjha. His commitment to community service extended to I would ask the House to please join me in applauding the Chase Lions Club and the Chase Christmas hamper their good works. program, where he ofen delivered many hampers per- sonally year afer year. In 2002, his dedication to public HUL’Q’UMI’NUM’ LANGUAGE service was recognized when he was named the Chase STREET SIGNAGE PROJECT IN DUNCAN Citizen of the Year. It has been said that volunteers don’t necessarily have the time, but they do have the heart. For S. Furstenau: In March of this year, seven streets in Roland “Rollie” Phillips of Chase, truer words have nev- the city of Duncan’s downtown core underwent a process er been spoken. of reconciliation. Te seven streets were issued Rollie, happy 85th birthday, my friend, and thank you Hul’q’umi’num’ names in addition to their English names. for the very positive diference you’ve made in the lives of Te Hul’q’umi’num’ signage project is a collaboration so many others. between the Downtown Duncan Business Improvement Association, Cowichan Tribes and the city of Duncan. Te KINDNESS CHAIN names in Hul’q’umi’num’, with their English translations, CHILLIWACK ASSOCIATION are Yuwen Shelh for First Street, Sxwuts’ts’ulii Shelh for Second Street, Smuyuqw’a Shelh for Tird Street, K. Paddon: I am honoured to speak today once again Tuthiqut Shelh for Fourth Street, St s’hwulmuhw Shelh about amazing people in Chilliwack-Kent. Ten years ago for Government Street, Liloot Shelh for Station Street and Zeeshan and Goolie, as her friends call her, came to Q’lhan Shelh for Canada Avenue. Canada from Pakistan, and they chose Chilliwack to call Amanda Vance, executive director of the Downtown home two years later. Tey live in the Promontory area Duncan BIA said that the project has been a great success. of Chilliwack-Kent with their three children, and we are She said it was a good-news story for the community dur- incredibly lucky to have this family as part of our com- ing the pandemic, and it was great to see the community munity. get involved. At the beginning of the pandemic, they noticed the dif- For example, Alexander Elementary School students fculty, for some, with grocery shopping. Tey ofered their recorded saying the street names to help people like me time, free of charge, on weekends to shop for others, star- learn how to pronounce them. Cowichan Tribe’s Chief ted making deliveries and were overwhelmed not only by Seymour said of the project: “We’ve been looking at recon- the need but also by gratitude and ofers to help. Te com- ciliation for a long time. I’ve been looking since I’ve been munity came together over Facebook, and soon they had a Chief to work together with my neighbour governments. community of over 50 volunteers and donors, and formed It’s a big step, recognizing the names.” the Kindness Chain Chilliwack Association, or KCCA. Te city of Duncan’s mayor, Michelle Staples, said: “Tis KCCA is 100 percent volunteer, and not a single dollar project is something we’re actually moving towards is diverted from project goals — projects like seniors out- because we recognize that this should have been done in reach, garbage cleanups in the Chilliwack River Valley and the beginning.” downtown Chilliwack, and meal deliveries to individual Merle Seymour, a Cowichan Tribes Elder and project homes as well as a local shelter, most recently for Easter participant, described how he was so honoured to see the and Ramadan. And the list goes on. Hul’q’umi’num’ signs on our streets. He said: “Tis really [10:20 a.m.] uplifs our people. Tese signs are a wonderful step for our Teir motto is “Serve the community we live in,” and community to recognize we are on Cowichan lands.” the family of volunteers that is KCCA are making our Haychka. community a better, friendlier, kinder and more generous place to be, thanks to their hard work and contributions, including from local businesses. Even during these dif- 1820 British Columbia Debates Thursday, May 13, 2021

SOCIAL JUSTICE CLASS AT how much is set aside for major attractions, who qualifes DR. CHARLES BEST SECONDARY SCHOOL and how much they could actually receive — pretty basic questions for a $100 million fund that was announced with R. Glumac: It’s inspiring to me when I see young people much fanfare. Te minister didn’t know and, once again, step forward to make a diference. Tere is one particular told struggling tourism operators and facilities across Brit- group of young people that I’d like to talk about today, and ish Columbia that they had to wait some more. that’s Ms. Leslie’s grade 12 social justice class at Dr. Charles Perhaps today the Premier could get up and he could Best Secondary School. actually provide us — and more importantly, tourism Ms. Leslie describes the nature of her class as “not only operators across British Columbia — with some specifc educating students about inequities in our society, but answers to those very basic questions. empowering them to advocate for change.” She says: “I want my students to know that they have a voice, that it Hon. M. Mark: I thank the member opposite for raising matters and that people will listen.” Indeed, they do have a this important question. We recently completed our voice, and it is being heard. budget estimates, and the critic for this fle had also asked I frst became aware of their social justice eforts when similar questions. I was copied on a letter-writing campaign to change the I did say that good news is coming and that the program name of the Pattullo Bridge. Te class also embarked on is being developed as we speak. Good news is going to be the Red Dress Project to create dialogue around the issue coming to the sector. Tis was an important announce- of murdered and missing Indigenous women and girls. ment — part of Budget 2021 — recognizing a call to action Te dresses are red because it’s believed that that’s the only to support iconic anchor attractions throughout British colour that can be seen in the spirit world, so that the miss- Columbia. Te work is being done by the public service, ing can fnd their way back. and good news should be coming very shortly. Te class collaborated with another teacher, Amanda Roberts, at Port Moody Secondary School. Many busi- Mr. Speaker: Te Leader of the Ofcial Opposition on nesses and MLA ofces, including my own, displayed red a supplemental. dresses last week. Te class’s eforts were covered by the media as far away as Ottawa. Judge Buller even reached S. Bond: I’m not sure how that brings any degree of out to congratulate them on their eforts. comfort at all to businesses who are clinging to hold on Providing cell coverage along the Highway of Tears is in British Columbia. Good news is coming? We want — just one step we are taking to address this issue. As one stu- and so do tourism operators — specifc answers to basic dent in the class, Naveed, expressed: “Te young people, questions. Tourism operators and major attractions can- the next generation, demand change.” not operate without support. Tey have lost millions of To Naveed, I say change is possible, and you are part dollars. of the change. So I want to thank you and your class and Let’s just take one of them. Barkerville, for example — your teacher for being champions for these very import- which, of course, the Premier has stood in this Legislature ant issues. and been a very big fan of. Well, I’m not sure that he’s [10:25 a.m.] aware that Barkerville, for example, is responsible for $25 million in economic activity. It welcomes more than Oral Questions 70,000 visitors every single year. Now they are facing a sig- nifcant budget shortfall. When asked about Barkerville in COVID-19 RESPONSE FOR the tourism estimates, the minister again had no answers, TOURISM ATTRACTIONS except to say this: “Barkerville is on my to-do list.” Well, she may not have the opportunity to actually visit S. Bond: In December, when we asked the Premier to Barkerville, because it may close permanently if she actually do something to save major tourism destinations, doesn’t step up and do something to help them. So let’s his Tourism Minister said: “We’re going to move quickly.” try it again. It’s a very simple question. British Columbians In March, we asked again, and this time it was the Jobs expect this government and Premier, when they make an Minister who said that the Minister of Tourism “has been announcement about a big fancy program, that maybe engaging with them,” and “I suspect she’ll have more to they should provide the details at the same time. say on that very soon.” We’ve been engaging with them for We’ve been waiting since December to get an answer months now. from this Tourism Minister. So let’s be clear, straight up. So it was a bit of a shock many months later to hear, this Who can apply, what organizations can actually apply for week, that the Minister of Tourism still has no plan: “It’s funding, and how much are they eligible for? Simple ques- not baked. We’re working out those details right now.” We tion. Let’s hope we get an answer. asked for specifc details about the $100 million in fund- ing that’s been set aside. We wanted to know specifcally Hon. M. Mark: First of all, when the member talks Thursday, May 13, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1821 about December, one of the frst things that we did was ations, and I expect that the PNE is going to be there for respond to a call to action from the Tourism Task Force future generations. that our Premier appointed, led by industry experts who We are in the middle of a health crisis. We recognize asked us to get grants out the door — which we’ve done that there is a call to action from the industry to support — to support the industry; the Indigenous Tourism B.C. anchor attractions. I said to the member opposite during organization — to get grants out the door to invest in estimates that the program is being developed as we speak infrastructure, which was a major call to action from the and that good news is coming. industry. In fact, what I said on the record was within a couple [10:30 a.m.] [audio interrupted] weeks. Te ministry is working as In fact, Barkerville got dollars through the community quickly as possible to develop the programs so we can get economic recovery infrastructure program — upwards of the money out the door — grants, not loans — to iconic $600,000. We are deeply committed to supporting anchor anchor attractions that have been deeply impacted by this attractions. global pandemic. For the record, if the member opposite wants to talk about her interest in saving Barkerville, let’s go back to the Mr. Speaker: Te member for Richmond North Centre transcripts of 2001 when the former government, the B.C. on a supplemental. Liberals, turned their back on their interest of protecting heritage sites like Barkerville. T. Wat: Te minister keeps saying that it’s going to be announced in a couple of weeks. Te major attractions are Interjections. dying. Tey cannot wait for one more day. Why couldn’t this be announced together with the budget? I don’t Mr. Speaker: Members, let’s listen to the answer. understand. Tis pandemic has been going on for more than a year. Hon. M. Mark: So I’m going to keep doing the work and Te PNE provides 44,300 direct jobs, 9,500 indirect jobs stating the facts. We are…. and $200 million in economic activity. But the fair’s debt could reach $15 million by the end of the year. Laura Bal- Interjections. lance of the PNE says: “Every day we go deeper into debt. And at some point…it becomes insurmountable.” Mr. Speaker: Members, order. Te Premier appears too incompetent to care about the PNE or attractions like the Williams Lake Stampede and Interjections. the Richmond Night Market, in my riding. Te question is to the Premier once again. I hope he will Mr. Speaker: Minister, wait. stand up and respond. Will the Premier save this attrac- Members of the opposition, when the minister is tion, or will they close forever? answering on Zoom, the minister can’t hear you. So save your energy, please. Hon. M. Mark: Of course we care about these anchor Next question. attractions. Of course we care about tourism. Tis is why we’ve rolled out over $100 million out the door to support T. Wat: We are 15 months into the pandemic, and the the tourism sector. minister promised to move quickly six months ago. Te When the member opposite is talking specifcally about key word is “quickly.” Tis grant to the major attractions the PNE, the PNE is owned by the municipality. should have been announced yesterday, instead of asking [10:35 a.m.] us to wait for the good news. Tey are dying every day. We’re working with the PNE and the municipality and Premier and the minister: the Premier has botched it. the federal government, who also announced $1 billion in Tis week, the minister said: “Te best analogy I can their budget a day before our budget, setting aside money give is that the ink is still wet.” People in the tourism sector for events and festivals and anchor attractions. We’re doing are drowning in red ink and have been waiting and wait- this work together, Member. It is important that we do the ing, and hoping that major attractions would get support. work together. Te PNE is asking for $8 million in aid, or it could close We do recognize that they have sufered, because they forever. can’t have events. Tey can’t have large crowds. We rec- To the Premier, will the PNE get support as a major ognize the pandemic impacts the people industry. Tat is attraction and employer of British Columbians? why good news is coming in days to support the sector. It’s a call to action. I’m proud of the public service for the Hon. M. Mark: Of course these iconic attractions are work that we’re doing. Good news is coming, hon. Mem- vital to British Columbians. When the member speaks ber. Tank you for the question. about the PNE, this is a place that I’ve gone to for gener- 1822 British Columbia Debates Thursday, May 13, 2021

YOUTH ADDICTION SERVICES AND S. Furstenau: Tank you to the minister for her YOUTH STABILIZATION CARE LEGISLATION response. Unfortunately, it’s not just the tragic death of children; S. Furstenau: Yesterday, my colleague asked the Min- it’s six British Columbians a day who are dying from a tox- ister of Mental Health and Addictions if she would resist ic drug supply. It’s thousands of lives that have been lost. pressure to bring back fawed legislation from last summer. Te minister says that this bill will be coming back, What we need to see from this government is that it but the B.C. Centre for Disease Control presents an evid- takes the steps that health experts, scientists, researchers, ence-based argument against involuntary care. Tey say: advocates and their own provincial health ofcer have “Tere is little to no evidence to support compulsory treat- been calling for, for years, in order to reduce the number of ment for substance use disorders in general, and for youth people dying from an illicit and toxic drug supply: decrim- in particular.” Compulsory treatment is associated with inalize drug users and ensure there is a regulated and relapse, higher levels of mental duress, homelessness and accessible safe supply. overdose, according to the BCCDC. In fact, the B.C. Centre for Disease Control released an [10:40 a.m.] evidence review that states: “Detention-based services are People, especially young, Black, Indigenous and people contrary to best public health practices in B.C.” Tey “do of colour are less likely to seek help when they need it fol- not address illicit drug toxicity that is driving…deaths.” lowing involuntary care. Te trauma they endure in the Tere’s a “lack of evidence that” they “are efective.” Tey health care system is signifcant and involuntary care may “may result in post-release harm,” including death, and perpetuate that. that involuntary hospitalization increases stigma and My question is to the Minister of Mental Health and “reduces the likelihood” of people seeking health care. Addictions. Te Premier and now she have signalled My question is to the Premier. What does he propose that involuntary care is a priority for this government. to address the signifcant concerns with involuntary care How is the minister planning to address the concerns expressed by the chief coroner, the Representative for described by the B.C. Centre for Disease Control, and Children and Youth, the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs, the why doesn’t she do what experts are asking for and First Nations Leadership Council and the B.C. Centre for immediately expand access to regulated safe supply in Disease Control? order to save lives?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Tank you to the member for Hon. S. Malcolmson: Te work that British Columbia raising the question and reafrming what we’re all feeling. is doing to expand safe supply — as a way to separate Tere is nothing more important than protecting children, people from the toxic, poisoned drug supply that is particularly the loss of such young lives to the toxic drug killing so many British Columbians tragically — is con- supply on Vancouver Island these past few weeks. tinuing. It is leading the country. We are working as It just puts that much more importance on the work that hard as we can to continue to break new ground. Te we’re doing to expand voluntary care for youth in men- 400 percent increase in the number of people that have tal health and addiction distress and to work across the been connected by their doctors or primary prescribers spectrum on decriminalization, on safe supply, on an his- to connect people with safe supply over the last year is toric expansion and historic investment on the part of the encouraging, and there is more to do. British Columbia taxpayer in mental health and addiction Let me be clear, though, about what was proposed in support — almost $100 million of that going specifcally Bill 22 and some of the conversations that we will have toward children and youth. across British Columbia before that legislation, or some We’re working across the spectrum. When we revisit the form of it, is reintroduced. It is not the secure care that lessons learned from Bill 22 and work…. We continue to the opposition has been proposing and what exists in hear parents say that stabilization care afer an overdose is places like Alberta. It is not forced treatment. It does not an important consideration and one of the tools that we involve the police. want to have available as a last resort. We will continue to It is a stabilization — post youth overdose — for a reafrm that it will not be a criminal issue. It will not be short period where there is an opportunity to connect anything to do with the justice system. Stabilization care young people, afer they have stabilized, with an option when it comes back to this legislation will remain part for care. Tat was the proposal made by my friend and of the health care response to a tragedy that has afected predecessor to this Legislature last summer. It did not young people in British Columbia. have the support of the opposition parties, so our work right now is to build out voluntary care, which is badly Mr. Speaker: Te Leader of the Tird Party on a supple- needed in British Columbia. We have done a lot. Tere mental. is more to do. I look forward to the broad conversations that will inform next steps. Thursday, May 13, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1823

COVID-19 CIRCUIT BREAKER government is number eight in providing direct relief and RELIEF GRANT FOR BUSINESSES supports to business. Ontario spends three times as much as British Columbia. T. Stone: Audio Visual by Lee’s Music in Kamloops Let’s try this again. Te live-event industry is literally had 30 employees. Today they have six. Teir revenue is in a state of emergency. Tese businesses have been com- down 80 percent. Small business owner Mike Miltimore pletely shut down due to the health measures, and most says: “We desperately need to hold on to our technicians have seen their revenue decline by 80, 90 or, in some cases, as it takes a long time to train these guys. You can’t just close to 100 percent. It doesn’t make sense that businesses go to school to be an AV tech. We need support to keep impacted by these health orders don’t qualify for the Pre- these staf on and also a plan moving forward. With mier’s support programs. many of our events permanently closed, the calendar is As Tim Lang of Proshow Audiovisual says: “We are the looking bleak.” people and businesses that enable all the conventions, con- Lee’s Music does not qualify for the circuit breaker certs, conferences, business luncheons, awards galas and grant. Tey’ve had to sell equipment. Tey’re taking hun- ceremonies. We are the people that work unseen behind dreds of thousands of dollars out of their savings — sav- the scenes, and unfortunately, when we now need govern- ings that no longer exist — just to survive. ment to see us, they do not. We feel absolutely invisible, My question to the Premier is this. Will the Premier fx abandoned and unvalued.” the circuit breaker grant so that live-event businesses that Te question, again to the Premier, is this. Will the Pre- have been shut down during the pandemic are eligible for mier provide the desperately needed support that the live- desperately needed support? events sector needs to survive?

Hon. R. Kahlon: Tank you to the member for this Hon. R. Kahlon: Again, I’ll remind the member that question. No doubt, this pandemic has been a challen- we do have the highest per-capita supports. I think the ging time for many businesses and many tourism oper- member may not know this, but Ontario has more than ators. We are proud that we’ve got the highest per-capita three times the population of B.C. So when he talks about supports for businesses and people in the country. I the fact that they have three times our support and they know that all the members in this chamber in the Legis- have…. lature should be proud of that, because we all are work- ing on this together. Interjections. Te member knows that businesses have funds available right now for them. Tey can apply for the small and Mr. Speaker: Members. medium-sized business recovery grant program, which is up to $30,000, and up to $45,000 if they’re tourism oper- Hon. R. Kahlon: It’s simple math. I’m happy to share ators. Happy if the member brings that particular business more details with the member. to my ofce. Many of his colleagues have come forward with specifc Interjections. businesses that have been impacted, and we’ve been able to navigate and support many of them. I look forward to hav- Mr. Speaker: Members, come to order. ing that conversation afer question period. Te minister will continue.

Mr. Speaker: Te member for Kamloops–South Hon. R. Kahlon: As I was saying, I’m happy to share Tompson on a supplemental. the math with him. He has cited, many times, reports that have highlighted that we have the highest per-capita sup- T. Stone: Well, we’re 16 months into this pandemic. ports in the country, and we’re proud of that. Again, this Tere are businesses and their workers all over the member has raised small businesses in this chamber for province that continue to struggle, wondering what the his own political purposes. future is going to look like. In fact, one out of seven busi- We’ve actually reached out to many of the businesses nesses in B.C. are at risk of closing. Tat’s 25,000 busi- that he’s named and actually got them the opportunity nesses and 300,000 workers. to apply for small business recovery grant programs. Te [10:45 a.m.] member mentioned a small business in Comox, which we Sectors all over this province are fapping in the wind were able to reach out to and say: “Did you know that you while the Premier trips over his shoelaces, unable to push could apply?” Tey didn’t know that they could, and we grants and direct supports out the door. Te minister, the were able to get them in the door to apply. Premier and the government continue to say that this gov- Again, happy if this member wants to bring the business ernment is number one in supports. Tat is not true. Tis names forward. We’re happy to work with as many busi- government is actually number eight in the country. Tis nesses as we can. We’re proud of our supports. We’re proud 1824 British Columbia Debates Thursday, May 13, 2021 that we’re at 99.1 percent of pre-pandemic job levels. We’re up to $60,000 in interest-free loans, the Canada emergency going to continue that good work as we come out of the rent subsidy program. We have dollars for businesses to pandemic. get online. Tere’s so much fnancial support available. And we’re happy, if the members are not able to navigate K. Kirkpatrick: Respectfully, the minister is wrong. those [audio interrupted], to provide the supports. B.C. does not have the highest per capita or the highest support for business. It is actually number eight. Ontario is M. Lee: Well, the minister simply continues to be spending three times as much per capita than B.C. is on its wrong. He’s continuing to mislead this province. B.C. grant programs. Te minister is using an outdated CCPA doesn’t have the highest support. We are actually No. 8 per report that relies on loans and federal support payments to capita when it comes to direct supports for business. make these claims. Let’s take live-event businesses. Tey aren’t the only Chris Briere of Briere Productions has written over 60 group being shunned by the Premier. Travel agents have — six, zero — letters and met with both the member for also been excluded. One has written to us, and he says: Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows and the member for Maple “Tings are about as bad as they could be right now, Ridge–Mission but has received none of the support he has and we really need the help.” You would think nobody requested. He says: “We’re denied the B.C. circuit break- is more afected by travel restrictions than travel agents, er relief grant that applies to bars and gyms but not the but they don’t qualify. live-event sector.” He’s already had a circuit breaker since Will the Premier fx the circuit breaker grant so that March of 2020. travel agents can apply? Will the Premier fx the grant program and provide some of the desperately needed funds for the live-event Hon. R. Kahlon: Again, we are very proud of the sector? highest per-capita supports in this country for people and businesses. Te member should know — in fact, I’m sur- Hon. R. Kahlon: Again, we do have the highest per- prised that the member doesn’t know — that tourism capita supports in this country. We’re really proud of that. operators are eligible to apply for up to $45,000 in pro- Reports have confrmed it. Outside reports have con- gramming that does not have to be paid back. In fact, frmed it. Sorry if I don’t rely on the numbers the B.C. Lib- $45,000 is the highest in the country. I know that they erals provide on that. can do the three times math to compare to Ontario, and I would also highlight that British Columbians have they’ll see that our program is signifcantly larger for tour- done the work that’s needed to keep the numbers relatively ism operators. low. We haven’t had to go into severe lockdowns that Again, if the member and his colleagues don’t know Ontario has had to do because of that work. So we contin- quite how to navigate to apply for a small business recov- ue to encourage the public to do what we need. ery grant program, we’re certainly happy to provide that [10:50 a.m.] support in our ministry. Te Minister of Health has been clear. Dr Henry has been clear. We need people to register. We need people to B. Banman: Te minister can repeat out-of-date stats get vaccinated so that we can see the economy open up and all he wants, but he’s just incorrect. We are not the continue to see a strong economic recovery. highest. Tis province is among the lowest for getting If there are businesses that need supports for applying money out the door. And worse than that, barely half for the small business recovery grant program, I’m happy of the allocated funds in B.C. have actually been paid for them to bring them forward. Again, it’s up to $45,000 out thus far. Tis minister and this Premier continue to for businesses, and that just touches on only a small por- bungle COVID supports. tion of the supports that are available. Te members Te Royal Canadian Legion has written to the prov- opposite of course will know that we also have tax credits ince. Tey have been directly afected by the circuit for employees. breaker health order but have been excluded from the circuit breaker grant — veterans who have given and Interjection. continue to give. It’s astounding, shameful and cruel that the Premier Hon. R. Kahlon: Hon. Speaker? would punish veterans and exclude them from the pan- demic supports. Mr. Speaker: Finish it, please. Question to the Premier: will the Premier change his mind and stop excluding the legion from pandemic aid Hon. R. Kahlon: We also have tax credits for hiring and today? rehiring employees. We have commercial and property tax relief. Tere are also programs from the federal govern- Hon. R. Kahlon: Tere are not many people in this ment — the Canada emergency business account, which is province that are as proud as being a legion member as Thursday, May 13, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1825 the Premier. He’s a proud member of his local legion. We, [End of question period.] everybody in this House, are proud of our veterans and their service. My grandfather was a veteran. He was a Tabling Documents member. So I don’t think that the member should be implying that somebody is more patriotic and more proud Hon. D. Eby: I have the honour to present the Crown of their legion than others. I think that does a disservice to Proceeding Act report for the fscal year ended March everybody in this chamber. 31, 2020. Te legions do have access to the Canada emergency business loan program, which is $60,000, interest free. Reports from Committees Tey do have access to the rent subsidy program, which, again, is available to them. Tey do have access to the wage OMBUDSPERSON APPOINTMENT COMMITTEE subsidy program as well. [10:55 a.m.] J. Routledge: I have the honour to present the report of To suggest that we are not allowing the legion to get the Special Committee to Appoint an Ombudsperson. access to important services is just incorrect. Tere are a I move that the report be taken as read and received. historic number of supports available. We’re proud of that, and we’re going to continue to do more because we know Motion approved. more needs to be done. J. Routledge: I ask leave of the House to move a motion COVID-19 RESPONSE FOR to adopt the report. SMALL BUSINESSES Leave granted. J. Tegart: REO Rafing and Yoga Resort has been providing internationally acclaimed experiences since the J. Routledge: I move that the report be adopted, and in 1980s. Tey applied for the small business grant and were doing so, I would like to make some brief comments. rejected only because they chose to invest in their business Tis report constitutes the committee’s unanimous prior to the pandemic and had a negative cash fow. Tey recommendation that James Michael “Jay” Chalke, QC, say: “Te grant’s criteria demonstrates a profound ignor- British Columbia’s Ombudsperson since 2015, be appoin- ance of how the adventure and seasonal tourism industry ted for a second six-year term afer his current term ends works.” on July 1. Seasonal tourism businesses continue to be lef behind Te committee had extensive discussions on the by this Premier. Ombudsperson’s evolving responsibilities and the profle Will the Premier fx his bungled grant program? and key competencies required for the position. In March, Mr. Chalke formally advised the committee of his interest Hon. R. Kahlon: Te member is, again, incorrect. Sea- in appointment for a further term of six years. Afer a sonal-based tourism operators have been receiving the detailed examination of Mr. Chalke’s qualifcations and small business recovery grant program. Many of them experience, the committee interviewed Mr. Chalke and have also received money for launch online, which we’re considered his leadership and management abilities and very proud of. I know that the opposition thought that his work in building public confdence in the work of the program wasn’t needed, but that program has been huge ofce and citizens’ services. for tourism operators, which have been able to now set up Committee members were impressed by Mr. Chalke’s online presence, set up their e-commerce so that they can track record of senior executive leadership, his high stand- attract customers from a broader audience and streamline ards of administrative fairness, his vision for improving their business operations. the work of the ofce, and his strong commitment to Indi- Many tourism operators also applied and received dol- genous reconciliation and engagement with the province’s lars for the digital bootcamp, which provides businesses diverse populations. the opportunity to learn about how to set up online oper- [11:00 a.m.] ations. In fact, many tourism operators — and I can share Members recognize Mr. Chalke’s particular achieve- many examples, but we’re running out of time — have ment in leading the ofce’s investigation of the 2012 Min- actually pivoted to brand-new business opportunities. istry of Health employee terminations. Afer receiving Again, we’re very proud of our historic supports. We’re over four million records and interviewing 130 witnesses, very proud that we’re at 99.1 percent of pre-pandemic job the ofce submitted its 2017 report to the Legislative levels, the highest in the country. We continue to lead the Assembly with a key recommendation that legislation be country, and we will continue to lead the country in our enacted to enable public sector whistleblowers to make economic recovery as we go forward. their disclosures and to ensure that any resulting investig- ations are conducted in a fair manner. 1826 British Columbia Debates Thursday, May 13, 2021

Te Public Interest Disclosure Act was subsequently Motion approved. adopted by the Legislative Assembly in 2018, which included a central role for the ofce. All committee Orders of the Day members concluded that Mr. Chalke’s experience, his demonstrated achievements in carrying out the roles Hon. M. Farnworth: In this chamber, I call committee and responsibilities of Ombudsperson and his public stage Bill 13, Employment Standards Amendment Act. In sector leadership resulted in their full confdence that he section A, Douglas Fir Room, I call estimates debate for be appointed as Ombudsperson for a further term of six the Ministry of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation. years. [11:05 a.m.] Mr. Chalke is present in the gallery today, and I would like to welcome him on behalf of all members of the Committee of the Whole House House. I extend my sincere appreciation to the Deputy Chair, BILL 13 — EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS the member for Abbotsford South, and to all committee AMENDMENT ACT (No. 2), 2021 members for their diligent and thoughtful consideration in reaching a unanimous recommendation on this import- Te House in Committee of the Whole (Section B) on ant appointment. I would also like to thank the Clerk of Bill 13; S. Chandra Herbert in the chair. the Legislative Assembly and the Clerk of Committees for their guidance in procedural matters. Te committee met at 11:06 a.m.

B. Banman: I would like to congratulate Mr. Chalke on On clause 1. his position and thank him for accepting for the next six years and to continue the fne work that he’s done. Te Chair: We are here, of course, for Bill 13, Employ- I would be remiss if I did not take a moment to thank ment Standards Amendment Act (No. 2), 2021, on staf. Staf showed this committee great guidance and were clause 1. absolutely on top of their game. From my heart, I want to thank staf from the foremost. G. Kyllo: Great privilege to stand in the House today to I’d also like to say what a pleasure it was to be part of follow up through some detailed questions with respect to this committee. It was mentioned at the end how much Bill 13. Just as we start, with respect to the amount of work the committee members enjoyed one another’s company that was undertaken in the preparation of Bill 13, if I could and how we banded together to do what was right for the just request when, specifcally, did government undertake province, by the citizens of this province. It was not polit- the initiative of the work related to the presentation of the ical at all. It is as it should be. bill that’s before us today? My congratulations to Mr. Chalke, my thanks to staf and my thanks and congratulations to the members that Hon. H. Bains: As we know, when the pandemic hit us, served on this committee. Tis House can be very proud. February, March last year, it brought to the surface many of the gaps that existed for workers’ support, especially Motion approved. when they’re sick, especially when the pandemic hit us. We realized at that time that workers did not have a right to J. Routledge: I ask leave of the House to move a motion sick leave. If they were sick with COVID, if they needed to recommending that the Lieutenant-Governor appoint take time of, they didn’t have a right to take that time of James Michael Chalke as Ombudsperson. without risking their job. So we fxed that through legisla- tive changes, regulation changes. Leave granted. Ten we also realized that workers at workplaces could be getting sick with COVID. If they apply for WorkSafe, Motions Without Notice fle a claim, it takes days sometimes, and it takes time for the claim to process to determine whether it’s work-related APPOINTMENT OF OMBUDSPERSON or not. We fxed that. [11:10 a.m.] J. Routledge: I move: We worked with WorkSafeBC, and we fast-tracked the [Tat the Legislative Assembly recommend to Her Honour the presumption clause that required 90-days waiting afer Lieutenant Governor that James Michael Chalke, Q.C., be appoin- WorkSafeBC decides that they wanted to provide pre- ted as an Ofcer of the Legislature to exercise the powers and du- sumption protection to the workers in that situation. We ties assigned to the Ombudsperson for the Province of British Col- umbia for a six-year term commencing July 1, 2021, pursuant to did that. We’ve been working to protect the workers and to the Ombudsperson Act (R.S.B.C. 1996, c. 340).] fx the gaps all along. As the member will know, then we were working to see Thursday, May 13, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1827 when the vaccination program started. Tere were work- still exist. We had the indication that they might be look- ers in a situation where they may not have time outside ing at fxing those gaps. All along, we thought that there of working hours to go get vaccinated and that they need would be something coming to fx those gaps —$500. Can time of during work. So we fxed that. the provinces top up? But that wasn’t the only thing we were doing. In parallel I mean, the member will know that Ontario was trying to that, we were working with the federal government. As to do the same thing. Tey asked the federal government the Premier said last summer, we’ve been working at this if they — the federal government — could top up and the since about a year ago. We believed it was a national emer- province will pay the federal government, and the feder- gency, and we needed a national solution. We knew that al government said no to it. We said: can we top up? So the workers who are sick at a workplace should be able we had some indications that there may be a model, that to stay home without loss of pay. Te federal government they could work with us, that they may be able to fx those listened, and they brought in their federal program. gaps that we were identifying, a diferent way to deal with We realized that there were gaps in that program, so it — fx the initial issue of one or two days. Also, is there we went back to the federal government. I think Premiers a way that we could top up the $500 without a clawback? all across this country realized there should be a national Te answer came back. solution. Te federal government delivered but lef a few Even afer the budget was delivered two weeks ago, we gaps. So they listened, and they extended from two weeks’ continued to work with them. My colleagues in Finance to four weeks’ coverage. But the initial one or two days…. were working at it. We had some indications that they For you to qualify for that particular week, you must lose might be able to fx it. Tey might be able to come up over 50 percent of work or income. Tat gap remained and with a solution that could be used as a model for other then if you qualify, then $500 less than minimum wage. provinces. But then we realized, and they came back to us, Te best solution would have been that we were work- that no, they can’t do it. So then we were on our own to ing with the federal government. We had some indication make sure that we come up with a made-in-B.C. solution that they would be looking into it and provide some pro- to fx those gaps, and that’s why this bill is here. tection to it — looking at how that can be fxed. Tey came back. We found out two weeks ago, afer they delivered G. Kyllo: If the minister could also maybe just provide a their budget, that that they weren’t able to fx it. bit of clarity for this House of when it was frst understood We didn’t stop there. We continued to talk to them. We or acknowledged by government that there was consider- had some indications they might be able to do it. But then able risk for workers that did not have access to paid leave they told us that we could not top up the $500 without a in the province. clawback, so the initial one day, two days, was the issue, then, for us to fx. So we are fxing it with this bill. Hon. H. Bains: If I understood the question correctly, I We’ve been working at fxing the gaps that existed for think the question was: when did we realize that workers workers’ support who are sick and who are not able to stay in B.C. have no paid sick leave? Maybe the member could home without loss of pay. We were working with the fed- clarify. eral government. We brought our own programs in place. And now, two weeks ago, when we realized that the federal G. Kyllo: No. Te question was: when was it that gov- government wasn’t able to fx those gaps, we started work- ernment actually acknowledged or came to the under- ing quickly to put this bill together — that it is up to us standing that workers that do not have a paid sick leave now, that we need to fx it. So that’s why we’re here today. program are at increased risk of actually obtaining the COVID virus? Te minister has indicated, obviously, that G. Kyllo: Tanks, Minister, for the history with respect the purpose of the bill is to provide paid sick leave so that to how we’ve arrived at this point. Can the minister workers who are ill or otherwise not able to go to work are provide specifcity upon the date that the federal program entitled to paid leave, under this bill. was initially announced and when the B.C. government Te question is that…. Obviously, this bill is satisfying identifed that a gap existed? a risk. Te question to the minister is: when did govern- ment come to the realization that workers that currently Hon. H. Bains: I think the federal CRSB program was do not have a paid sick leave program are at increased risk announced in September 2020. We right away identifed of receiving COVID in the workplace and then also the those gaps, and we started to work with the federal gov- potential for workers that obtain that virus and taking it ernment. Te Premier took the charge. back to their families? [11:15 a.m.] [11:20 a.m.] My colleagues in Finance and myself, March 1 of this year, had meetings with other Ministers of Labour from Hon. H. Bains: Look, when the pandemic hit us, no other jurisdictions, with the federal Minister of Labour. It one knew what kind of virus this is, how it’s going to hit brought to their attention at that time, too, that those gaps us. Diferent countries took diferent approaches. Diferent 1828 British Columbia Debates Thursday, May 13, 2021 provinces took diferent approaches in order to overcome answer a series of questions. Have we been ill? Have we the spread of the virus. It was changing. been unwell? Do we have a fever? Tere are many diferent Sometime last year, as we moved forward, we wanted to checks that are undertaken. If we answer yes to any of make sure that the economy, as much as we could, kept those questions, we’re encouraged, even here at this Legis- running in the province of British Columbia. We decided lature, to stay home. that that’s the best way to keep people working and keep Tere was a point in time when government was fully the economy going. Ten, at the same time, we realized aware of the potential risks of transmission of COVID that there were workers who maybe were spreading COV- bringing it to the workplace. So my question to the min- ID at workplaces, because there were some factories and ister is that at what point in time is he able to confrm operations who were being shut down all across the coun- to this House when government was aware of the poten- try. So you need to put some measures in. tial risk of the transmission of COVID in the workplace, Tat’s why WorkSafeBC works with all diferent sec- which obviously directed much of the work that Work- tors — 32 diferent sectors. WorkSafeBC put together SafeBC did last spring? safety protocols for them, safety plans for them. Within each sector, individual businesses were to draf up their Hon. H. Bains: Look, the member will know that we own safety plans to make sure that we stop the transmis- put together the Economic Recovery Task Force — the sion or minimize the transmission at workplaces. It just Premier did with the Finance Minister. We met with evolved every day. them on a regular basis. Tere was real anxiety by the Ten, I think, it was understood that if workers need to employers group that this is a national emergency and take time of, then they could stay home. Tat is the best there needs to be some kind of a national solution. Tey way of stopping transmission at workplaces. Tat’s why we were worried about workers coming to work, spreading made all those changes to make sure that they have job- COVID and other people getting ill and operations get- protected leave. If they need to stay home, there’s a job- ting shut down and that they shouldn’t be asked to carry protected leave provision there. If they become ill at the the burden either. So they themselves, along with the workplace, their claims will be accepted on a presumptive Premier, reached out to the federal government and the basis. We made those changes. Prime Minister. Tey wrote a letter that there needs to Ten, the other thing, in order to stop transmission at be a national solution to it. workplaces, was to make sure that everyone is vaccinated. What we could do on the parallel side here…. We were We made that easier and removed some of those road- doing everything that we could do to protect those work- blocks. So I think that we’ve been working all along to ers, to give them the right to take time of with the job- ensure that workplaces can continue to operate safely and protected leave and WCB changes, as I mentioned before. that workplaces are safe. All those measures were put in And then work with the business group to work with the place to stop the transmission at workplaces. federal government to come up with a national program. [11:25 a.m.] [11:30 a.m.] September last year, as a result of those eforts by busi- G. Kyllo: Tank you, Minister, for the information. nesses, by the Premier — and some other Premiers, also If we go back to the outset of the pandemic, our chief — the federal government announced the program that medical health ofcer had lots to say to British Columbi- we talked about earlier. We thought that would fx it. Tey ans about the potential risk. We knew that with the virus, were talking to us and we were talking to them that there quite ofen, some of the symptoms — the loss of smell, loss would be a national solution coming. of taste, increased temperature and fever…. Tere were When the program was announced, we identifed gaps. many diferent signs that individuals may have COVID. We went back to them, they listened, and they fxed it, I appreciate that a signifcant amount of work was to an extent, by extending two weeks to four weeks. But undertaken by WorkSafeBC to establish some protocols the initial two days, as I said, two and a half days or the with respect to providing worker protection. I believe it $500, they didn’t fx. So we continued to work with them. was also the health ofcer that came out and told British I explained that in my previous answer. Columbians: “For the most part, if you’re feeling unwell, Right until the end we had some indications. Ontario stay home. Don’t go to work.” tried. Tey didn’t agree with them. Ten we proposed Businesses made signifcant eforts to try and undertake a diferent proposal, a diferent model. Tey were open the opportunity for workers that had the ability, poten- to that. Right up until we fnally made a decision to tially, to work from home. draf our own bill, our Finance Minister and her min- But if we go back to the time when it was certainly made istry were working with the federal Finance Minister apparent by our chief medical ofcer and also some of the and their ministry. undertaking in the work of WorkSafeBC with respect to Other ministers were involved, trying to come up with protocols…. I know even in this Legislature, every morn- a model that would fx this national solution. Ten we got ing when we arrive in this place, we have to actually the answer that they couldn’t do it. Terefore, we were Thursday, May 13, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1829

forced to come up with our own solution, made in B.C. As referenced in his answer that on the direction of PHO, the the Premier said, if they don’t do it, we would do it. Here public health ofcer, WorkSafeBC undertook to establish we are. some safety guidelines. I do understand that those health guidelines specifcally gave reference to workers, encour- G. Kyllo: I appreciate the additional information from aging workers to stay home if they’re feeling unwell. the minister. However, maybe I’ll rephrase the question. If the minister might just provide some clarity on what What I’m trying to determine and identify is when govern- date was it that WorkSafeBC initially provided the safety ment became aware that there was increased potential risk plan guidelines that were provided to businesses all across for workers for COVID transmission in the workplace. the province, as far as some of the best eforts that they Maybe I’ll phrase the question this way. Can the min- might undertake in order to prevent the transfer of COV- ister share with this House when WorkSafeBC established ID in the workplace. the guidelines specifcally requiring workers that were feel- ing unwell to stay home and their request for workers not Hon. H. Bains: WorkSafeBC, on the advice of the CDC, to come to work when they were feeling unwell? posted on their website on March 12 advice to workers to stay home if you’re sick. Ten they worked with the Hon. H. Bains: It wasn’t WorkSafeBC’s directive that provincial health ofcer to come up with the safety plans. when you’re sick, you don’t come to work. It was the PHO, Tose safety plans were announced when the province provincial health ofcer. Tey were saying to stay home announced reopening certain parts of the province and the when you’re sick. Tat’s been the directive right from the industry and the sectors. It was May 6. beginning. Te best way to stop the transmission of COV- ID is to stay home. Don’t travel. Don’t meet people. Don’t G. Kyllo: I appreciate that. shake hands. Wash your hands. Keep six feet, two metres, As the minister has confrmed, March 12 was the date apart when you’re shopping, when you’re out if you have that WorkSafeBC, I guess, through their website initiated to go out. Tose are the directives from the PHO. the request that workers who were feeling unwell stay Now, at workplaces, there were some jurisdictional home and not come to work. It was a little while later, May issues. Te provincial health ofcer’s orders and whether 6 was the date, that WorkSafeBC provided the actual safety WorkSafeBC can enforce them — initially, there was that plans and the guidelines and best practices for businesses question as well. PHO and WorkSafeBC worked together to follow. It’s apparent that as early as March of last year so that. Number one, the safety plans for each operation and certainly by May 6, when the economy started to open must be there. It was the provincial health ofcer’s dir- up again, government was aware of the potential risk for ective. Ten WorkSafeBC helped put those safety plans workers for the transmission of COVID in the workplace. together. Ten they worked out an arrangement where To the minister, I’m just wondering if the minister can WorkSafeBC would be helping to enforce provincial health share…. In the middle of a health pandemic — a global ofcer orders at workplaces. I think all of those things were pandemic, the single largest health crisis that we have happening. faced in British Columbia in over 100 years — they had Also, to clarify to the member, the businesses wrote the fnancial resources with the $5 billion COVID spend- that letter, I’m advised, on May 13 last year, almost urging ing plan that was approved by all members of the Legis- the federal government to come up with a national solu- lature. tion. Our Premier was also urging the federal government, Why is it that government waited until this week, over a because these decisions took place during our Economic year later, before tabling this piece of legislation? Recovery Task Force meetings quite ofen. [11:40 a.m.] [11:35 a.m.] So they, together, lobbied the federal government. Te Hon. H. Bains: We need to remember that March was federal government listened, and then they came up with pretty…. To think about it, it was the front end of the pan- the federal sick program. Obviously, as we mentioned demic, and everyone was trying to fgure out how to deal before, there were faws in it. We’ve been working with with this. WorkSafeBC, in their role to protect workers them all along to make sure to fx those faws. Tey came at workplaces and their health and safety at workplaces, somewhat, some way. But then the other couple of areas…. working with the employers to ensure that workplaces Tey tried, they said. But even with Ontario…. I said other were safe, posted that March 12. Tey were very proactive, provinces tried. It didn’t work out. So we were ready to go in my view, and advised the employers and the workers to if we got the answer from the federal government that they stay home if they were sick, on the advice of the CDC. were not going to cooperate with us or work with us and Ten the province, businesses and labour were working fx those gaps. together through that task force. “How do we reopen?” Te member will know there were stages of reopening of G. Kyllo: What I’m trying to establish…. Maybe the the economy. On May 6, safety plans were announced by minister might be able to provide this clarity. Te minister 1830 British Columbia Debates Thursday, May 13, 2021

WorkSafeBC, because that’s the time we were reopening House have canvassed so many times in this House. We the economy, 32 specifc sectors. want to make sure that they’re not asked to carry the whole In the meantime, at the same time…. May 6 was when burden of dealing with this issue. we were reopening the economy. May 13…. I mean, the But employers understand that it is in their best discussion took place prior to that, but fnally, on May 13, interest to make sure that the workers who are sick stay the businesses wrote a letter to the Prime Minister that home, because we’ve seen if they don’t. Over 70-plus it should not be up to the province, because they were businesses had to be shut down because of a COVID worried about the cost to them. Tey were worried about cluster in those operations in the last few weeks. Ten the cost to the province. It was a national emergency and the loss is a lot bigger. should be dealt with, with a national solution. Tey wrote. Having a program that the businesses understand — Our Premier wrote, “Look, we need that program now,” that if we allow our workers to stay home if they are sick and they listened. without loss of pay, it’ll beneft them; it’ll beneft the work- It took some time, but in September, they announced ers. But we understand that the businesses are hurting as their program. Yeah, you could say that they took longer, well. So we said we would reimburse those employers who but they were working with us. We were working with allow their workers to stay home who are sick, up to $200 them. Businesses, the government, labour — they were all per worker, per day. I think it’s a win-win situation. saying to the federal government, “It needs a national solu- tion,” and they delivered. G. Kyllo: I do appreciate the minister for that additional I said that before. I think my answer…. I have repeated clarity. I do have some additional questions, with respect many times that there were faws. Tere were gaps in it. to timelines. But at this point, I’d like to actually turn this Tey fxed one gap by extending two weeks to four weeks, over to my colleague, the Leader of the Green Party. but another two remained. We continued to work with them. We had the indication that maybe there was a solu- S. Furstenau: Tank you to the member for Shuswap tion to it. Diferent kinds of models were being considered. and the minister. Ten the third wave starts. People are starting to realize I’ve been enjoying this conversation quite a bit. I’m a that we need to take extra steps — again working with the historian, so I’ve been making a timeline. I’m just trying to federal government — that we need some solutions here. understand all the things that have been happening since Tere were indications there could be some diferent ways March of 2020. to resolve this problem, working with the provinces. Te minister has indicated that May 6, 2020, was when Ten we saw that in their budget, there was no mention. the WorkSafe safety plans were brought forward, an indic- Ten we got on the phone again. My colleagues got on ation that everybody was understanding the risk of COV- the phone again. Tey said no to Ontario frst, because ID in the workplace and the risk of infection being trans- that was a diferent model being looked at. We said there mitted in workplaces. was maybe a diferent model that we could look at, by Te minister indicated that there was work being done provinces topping up rather than the federal government to encourage the federal government to put out a sick pay topping up and then reimbursement by the provinces. “If program, which they did September 2020, and that that that doesn’t work, what about our model?” Also, how do program had gaps. we fx the frst two and a half days? Ten there was further work, further conversations, Tere was indication that there may be an opportunity between provincial ministers and the federal minister to come up with a new model that could be used across about addressing those gaps. Te Minister of Labour has the country. Ten fnally they came back. Tey were not indicated one of those gaps was addressed. able to deal with those issues. Ten we quickly had to put Ten eight months went by, and we fnd ourselves together our own solutions. Tat’s exactly what this bill with a bill for sick pay in British Columbia which covers will do. It fxes that gap — the two and a half days that three days for an employee. Te minister, in his response the workers, if they lost, weren’t entitled to any beneft for just now, said that this bill will ensure that a worker can from the federal program in that particular week. stay home knowing they will not lose any income for [11:45 a.m.] three days. Tis program will ensure that if a worker wakes up We know that the gaps in the federal program still in the morning and feels sick — feverish, coughs, shows remain. Te program requires application retroactively. It’s those signs — that worker can stay home. Tey have the not funds that can be provided immediately, so for people ability to stay home now, knowing that they will not lose who are living paycheque-to-paycheque, the federal pro- any income. Tat’s the purpose of this short-term solution gram really doesn’t meet their immediate needs, and it that we are proposing during the pandemic, which will pays less than minimum wage. So workers can stay home take us till the end of this year. knowing they will have income for three days, and then Yes, we also understand that many businesses are strug- beyond that, they can apply to the federal program, which gling to survive, as the member and other members of this we have universally agreed has gaps. Thursday, May 13, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1831

Between September 2020 and May 2021, we have gone Now, we could have topped up, which we ofered to the through the second wave of COVID and we have gone federal government. Once they go on the federal program, through the third wave of COVID. Tose waves have been the initial three days are covered to go on the federal pro- increasingly devastating in terms of the cost to people’s gram. Ten we would top up. Tey would not allow us, health and to people’s lives in this province and across the with their clawback. So we had to do the best that we could country. do here. Tese ongoing conversations between the provincial I think this is a sufcient bill. It is a balanced approach. ministers and the federal minister seem a little leisurely, Te workers will be able to stay home knowing that their given what was unfolding in people’s lives between March wages will continue on for three days, and they can go on a 2020 and May 2021. program from the federal government if they need longer [11:50 a.m.] time of. My question for the minister. Given all that we know [11:55 a.m.] about the gaps in the federal program and about the real- Also, the 50 percent of workers who don’t have any ities for workers in this province — for whom three days, sick plan at their workplaces today — many of them are if you have tested positive for COVID-19, is neither suf- low wage, non-union sector mostly. Many collective agree- fcient for recovery nor is it sufcient to protect health. ments, public sector — they already have sick leave plans. Te people are being faced with the same choice, which is, So it is to deal with those workers who are at the lower “Do I stay home, protect my health, protect the health of end of the wages, non-union workers. Teir wages will be my colleagues and protect public health at the cost of not protected. Tey know if they need to take time of because being able to pay my bills?” — because it takes longer than they’re sick on one day, two days, three days, their wages three days to recover from this illness. will continue on, and we will support the employer so that Does the minister think that this bill is sufcient to they don’t carry the entire burden of this program either. address the immediate needs of workers in B.C. today? S. Furstenau: I will ask one quick question, and I Hon. H. Bains: I think the member knows that the fed- assume we will be resuming this. eral government, when they came up with that program, I appreciate the response from the minister in that he set aside about $2.4 billion for that program. Up until now, believes that this is sufcient as it stands. I just want to they have utilized about $454 million. So there’s a lot of walk through what that would mean for somebody. space there. Tey had the capacity, and we were given the As a person earning close to minimum wage, maybe indication that we would fx it. just above minimum wage, indicating that your expenses Now, the best solution was that our bill was three days, every month are pretty much what your entire paycheque plus if you were able to top up. But they would not allow us is going to cover…. We know that in British Columbia, to top up without a clawback. Right along, we were not sit- there are far too many people who are living at that pre- ting idly by. I listed a whole number of diferent things that carious place, where one missed paycheque is catastrophic. we were doing to support the workers and the businesses It could mean losing housing. It could mean not eating or as soon as the pandemic hit us. Te frst priority was the having food for your kids. It could mean catastrophic con- health of our population. Ten it was to make sure that the sequences. workplaces were safe, those who were operating the essen- Tat person tests positive for COVID-19, has three tial services. days covered by this provincial program, and then has to We worked with the employers, worked with workers, apply to the federal program, which provides less than their representatives, to ensure that workplaces were safe. minimum wage. Tis means they are actually going to And there was enforcement. I can tell you, the numbers of earn less in that segment, those two weeks. Ten days, inspections by WCB during the pandemic are enormous, minimum, is the infectious period. Tis is what we’ve in addition to their normal work and normal inspections. heard from the health ofcer. Do not go out. Do not It was not just to establish the safety plans and then leave it spend time in your workplace. So now they are actually to somebody else to self-discipline it. No, it was to enforce having a diminished income, having already existed and make sure that the workplaces were safe. right at that precarious edge. Now to the real question that the member was asking: Does the minister really think that that is sufcient for is this sufcient? We believe it is a sufcient answer to the some of the most marginal workers in British Columbia, gaps that exist. Tis is the frst three days for a worker who have sufered the most in this pandemic? to make sure that they are fully paid. If you work three days and then on Tursday you feel sick, you go for a test. Hon. H. Bains: Member, the scenario that you put So on Tursday and Friday, you’re waiting for the result. together — the plight of minimum wage workers in this Tese three days will fx that. Tey will not lose any money. province, this country — is real. Right now, we’re talking Before, they would have lost those two days, and then they about the pandemic to ensure that workers have the ability would go on a federal program. 1832 British Columbia Debates Thursday, May 13, 2021 to stay home when they’re sick so that transmission at workplaces is stopped. Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Tat situation exists forever. Tose workers who have worked long enough, if they become ill, what rights do Committee of Supply they have? Tey go on the federal sick beneft program, the EI sick beneft program, which pays, again, less than their ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF INDIGENOUS wages. So we could talk about…. I think we would prob- RELATIONS AND RECONCILIATION ably share the value of the plight of the lowest-paid work- ers in this province and what are they’re facing when they Te House in Committee of Supply (Section A); lose one day, two days or lose their job all together. Tat R. Leonard in the chair. situation is real. I think today we are talking about the pandemic. Dur- Te committee met at 11:14 a.m. ing the pandemic, how do we support these workers so that they don’t lose money when they wake up in the On Vote 33: ministry operations, $50,740,000. morning and they need to take that day of? [11:15 a.m.] [12:00 p.m.] Tey will be covered with this bill, and then they would Te Chair: Minister, do you have any opening remarks? go on to the federal program. My suggestion is that our bill is designed to work in collaboration with other support Hon. M. Rankin: It’s my pleasure today to speak systems that are in place, especially the federal program. about Budget 2021 and acknowledge frst that I’m speak- Now, as I said before, had they allowed us to top up the ing to you and members from the traditional territory $500 without a clawback, that would’ve been the answer, of the Lək̓ ʷəŋin̓ əŋ-speaking peoples, the Songhees and but they would not allow us to do that. So we did Esquimalt Nations. everything we could to fx the gap so that we could move Joining me today is my deputy minister, Mr. Doug on and provide support to those workers, at least for those Caul. Mr. Caul has been in the public service since 1992 three days. Ten they could go on the federal program. and was appointed in 2015 as deputy of my ministry. It’s Hon. Chair, noting the hour, I move to report progress a great honour for me, personally, to have been appoin- and ask to sit again. ted to this ministry. It’s a privilege to take part in what is my frst estimates Te Chair: Ah, well. We’ll get there in a moment, but debate. hon. Members, you’ve heard the motion. We’re going to I want to acknowledge my predecessor, Scott Fraser, adjourn — I think that’s the request here — this debate for who I think tried to build relationships not only with Indi- now. We will come back when we get that opportunity. genous peoples but also with members who are joining us today for the debate, members across the foor. I hope to Motion approved. emulate his approach today and work with all three parties in the spirit of reconciliation. Te committee rose at 12:01 p.m. I’ve returned to the ministry afer many years away. I was a treaty negotiator way back in the ’90s, and I’ve seen Te House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. signifcant change. I’ve seen change in the business com- munity, in local government, who have risen to the occa- Committee of the Whole (Section B), having reported sion as we embrace, as a population, the challenges and progress, was granted leave to sit again. opportunities of reconciliation. I believe I bring a per- spective that can be helpful to this task because I have Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported served as a lawyer and a negotiator and represented gov- resolutions and progress, was granted leave to sit again. ernment, industry and First Nations during my career. However, none of that experience could possibly have Hon. S. Robinson moved adjournment of the House. prepared me to be a minister during the pandemic. I want to acknowledge the strong response of First Nation lead- Motion approved. ership in keeping their members safe and, therefore, keep- ing all of us safer. I’m committed to continuing to work in Mr. Speaker: Tis House stands adjourned until one partnership with Indigenous peoples to navigate this crisis o’clock this afernoon. safely, together. Te frst item in my mandate letter, in fact, refers to Te House adjourned at 12:02 p.m. the pandemic and keeping people safe. We have had some challenges as we navigate this unprecedented and protrac- Thursday, May 13, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1833 ted public health emergency together, but we’ve also seen the child welfare system is another priority. We are making a new level of coordination and cooperation between gov- innovative agreements with First Nations to support self- ernment and nations over the past 14 long months. I see government and self-determination across our province. this as a concrete example of progress in shifing our gov- Budget 2021 continues that work. It supports reconcili- ernment-to-government relationship. ation and ensures that Indigenous Peoples remain an Tat changing relationship is evident with Indigenous important part of our economic recovery. peoples being prioritized for vaccinations, as their com- Of particular note, Budget 2021 provides $60 million munities have faced much higher risks from epidemics in dedicated, annualized funding for Indigenous particip- in the past. COVID-19 is no diferent. Evidence shows ation in land and resource activities. Tat’s dependable that Indigenous peoples are disproportionately afected by funding in our base budget for work that, historically, has COVID-19, both with the rate of positive cases and for been funded in an ad hoc way, out of contingencies. It’s hospitalizations, and sadly, deaths. Tat’s why all Indigen- now part of the core funding of our ministry. Tat sup- ous peoples 18 and over are eligible to get their frst dose ports First Nations engagement, stewardship, negotiations of the vaccine. and economic development related to natural resources. Vaccinations, I’m proud to say, have been ofered to all Tis work is vitally important to advance reconciliation First Nation communities in our province, and more than and to enhance relationships and collaborative activities 80,000 vaccines have been administered to First Nations with First Nations, industry and government. across B.C. I’m so happy to report that over two million Budget 2021 also provides funding for 30 new positions people in British Columbia overall now have been vaccin- to be split between my ministry and the Ministry of ated with their frst dose. Tat gives me great hope that this Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural pandemic will soon come to a close and improve things for Development. Tat will make sure that we have the neces- all of us. sary people in place to implement agreements, including Important discussions on economic recovery afer land transfers. We need to keep working together to make COVID-19 are underway. As we continue to plan and a diference in the lives of Indigenous Peoples. Tat’s what roll out our recovery eforts, First Nations’ participation we are doing in Budget 2021. is absolutely vital. Tey will have a strong voice in B.C.’s Tere’s another critically important part of my mandate, economic recovery planning. Te $10 billion StrongerBC and that is the declaration act, the implementation of that Economic Recovery Plan included signifcant funding to work on reconciliation. It was a year and a half ago — that advance reconciliation and build a more inclusive eco- historic moment — when this House was the frst gov- nomy. I’m thinking of such things as the $90 million to ernment in our country, and one of the frst in the world, support expansion of broadband to 200 rural and Indigen- to embrace the declaration on the rights of Indigenous ous communities, $5 million to Indigenous Tourism BC to Peoples. Tat gave us enormous responsibility to carry out provide relief for Indigenous tourism operators. what can only be described as a generational task and a A little about my mandate as minister. As government challenge — work to start undoing 175 years of colonial- takes actions to support recovery, reconciliation with Indi- ism in our part of this world. Te bill was an historic mile- genous peoples will remain a key principle. As you know, stone, but it was just one step. every minister has been tasked with advancing reconcili- Now we’re into the real work, the real implementation, ation in their mandate letters, guided by the Declaration which is, in my case, the creation — in collaboration and on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act, which, I’m proud cooperation with Indigenous Peoples — of a fve-year to say to British Columbians, was passed unanimously in action plan. Te work of engaging deeply with First this House in 2019. Nations and Indigenous Peoples has been underway for [11:20 a.m.] over a year, despite the pressures everyone faces during the Part of the implementation of the declaration act pandemic. includes establishing a secretariat to coordinate that work Tat work is underway, and we expect to release a con- and deliver on the action plan in consultation and cooper- sultation draf, the frst one on an action plan that will ation with First Peoples. Tat’s why I’m honoured to be be coming out in the coming weeks. We’ll be launching responsible for that. Our government has made substantial a broad consultation process to seek further input from progress over the past few years, setting a strong founda- Indigenous Nations, organizations and from individual tion for our continuing work to advance true and mean- Indigenous People. Also, I’m working on the secretariat ingful reconciliation. Together with Indigenous Peoples, which I referred to earlier. we’ve been working to build a more prosperous future with Reconciliation is about working together, government- revenue-sharing and afordable housing. to-government in respectful partnerships, to recognize the In 2018, our government provided $50 million on lan- inherent rights of Indigenous People guaranteed in our guage revitalization. We have a new First Nations justice constitution. We’re committed to doing that as we rebuild strategy, a new K-to-12 curriculum so that children are the province afer the pandemic, as we negotiate treaties taught about Indigenous history and culture. Improving and other kinds of arrangements that bring lasting change. 1834 British Columbia Debates Thursday, May 13, 2021

I know this is a big task, but I’m anxious to move forward. Ofen when we are negotiating comprehensive recon- We’ve made important progress; we’ve got much to do. ciliation agreements or other treaties, for example, it’s Te declaration act provides us that path. We can build an important to note what the cultural resources of a par- inclusive economy. We can embrace what the world is now ticular nation are. We take that into account, and pre- calling ESG standards. We can look at our CleanBC as one servation decisions are negotiated, ofen, to note the component of that. existence of heritage resources across the province. Tat [11:25 a.m.] would be one example, one way, in which our ministry When international investors look at the social part, uses that information. they will see a government, the frst in our country and the frst in North America, that has embraced the declaration J. Rustad: Tanks to the minister for that answer. Obvi- on the rights of Indigenous Peoples. I say that that puts our ously, the information that comes in is important. It’s part economy in very good stead, going forward — a leading of discussions and the various components that the min- guidepost for our future development. We can get better istry does look at. What I’m concerned about is that there outcomes by working together. I look forward to our dis- seems to be a signifcant delay in actually getting permits cussion today. for this information to be collected. Obviously, when there are activities out on the land base, it’s important to do this Te Chair: I now recognize the member for Kam- work in advance. loops–North Tompson. Would you like to make any I guess the question to the minister is: in the delay that’s opening remarks? coming in and in getting the permits to get this work done — the delay coming in the door — how does that impact P.Milobar: Tank you to the minister for the opening your ministry? Is there anything your ministry can do to remarks. I’m new to this portfolio myself, and I do look help support getting these permits issued so that this actu- forward to the rest of the day and questioning, on behalf ally important work can get done out in the feld? of all British Columbians, the intricacies of the budget laid out for the Ministry of Indigenous Relations and Hon. M. Rankin: I thank you for that thoughtful ques- Reconciliation. tion, Member for Nechako Lakes. Ofen delays are frus- I am going to, in the interest of time, keep my opening trating for everyone. Tey’re frustrating for First Nations. comments very brief. I will be turning our opening ques- Tey’re frustrating for people who are involved in the local tions over to my colleague, who is our most recent former communities where cultural resources are confrmed to minister of this ministry and the member for Nechako exist. Te courts have made clear that there is a duty to Lakes. He will not be able to join us this afernoon, so it consult and accommodate First Nations. Tat ofen takes a makes the most sense to have him engage in his localized great deal of time, as the member will know. questions now. Ten I’ll spend the better part of the afer- [11:30 a.m.] noon, before the Green Party comes in, to ask questions. We are trying to address that through a number of dif- With the Chair’s permission, I’ll turn the frst questions ferent techniques, one of which we call strategic engage- over to the member for Nechako Lakes. ment agreements. Ofen these are bilateral agreements, but they may involve others. Tat will allow us to sit down and J. Rustad: Tere are a few issues I’d like to go over with work together to try to make it a little quicker, because the ministry. To start of, I want to talk a little bit about there’s a great demand and anxiety to make sure the pro- archaeological overview assessments. Tis is something tections are there. that is done through the heritage act. It’s done through I think we have to blame the courts to some degree, if I Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations, but obvi- may, because the responsibility to consult and accommod- ously, the information that comes in, associated with this, ate is a constitutional duty binding on the Crown, both is important information for the Minister of Indigenous federal and provincial. We take the importance of dischar- Relations and Reconciliation. ging that responsibility very seriously. What I’m wondering, in particular, is: in what ways does the ministry utilize the information that does come in J. Rustad: Being aware of the legal requirements and from archaeological overview assessments? in agreement that those requirements are important, we ought to make sure we follow them. But we’re in a situation Hon. M. Rankin: I thank the member for Nechako where the archaeological information is something that Lakes for the question. As he properly noted, the Herit- the First Nations should want, that the ministry should age Conservation Act is the responsibility of the Minis- want. And there shouldn’t be a lot of work that’s required, ter for Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and given that this is simply looking for archaeological infor- Rural Development. Te information that the archae- mation. It’s not actually doing the work on the ground. ology branch provides our ministry is very helpful in a Tat is why it’s curious why there’s such a delay. I have number of ways. heard, of recent, that even some of the First Nations seem Thursday, May 13, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1835 to be reluctant to want to see this work go forward. Per- we’re obviously — in the interest of British Columbia and haps if the minister could, if the minister has heard of in the interest of, in this case, the Blueberry — anxious to these sorts of issues…. Or could the minister provide some do just that. insight, from his ministry’s perspective, as to the import- [11:35 a.m.] ance of this archaeological assessment information both to Te member is absolutely correct. We’re advised there First Nations and to, of course, the government and why has been some difculty in leadership, and it’s been con- there may be this reluctance or delay, both on the ministry tested by some councillors and community members. At side as well as the First Nations side, to actually want to this time, however, we’re continuing to work with the cur- collect this information? rent elected chief and council, and our negotiators will continue to respond to the leadership issue and directions Hon. M. Rankin: I would agree that the delays are ofen as things go clear. But I want to make it clear to the mem- frustrating. Tey’re frustrating to me, and they’re frustrat- ber that we are making good progress. ing to others. We have local staf distributed across the As he will no doubt be aware, there has to be a band province who work closely to try to enhance the decision- council resolution. Tey have provided it already, a signed making, the protection of cultural resources. band council resolution by chief and council, indicating I point out that the Freedom of Information and Protec- support for all of the treaty land selections at place. Tere tion of Privacy Act actually has an exemption that specifc- will have to be a ratifcation vote as well. Irrespective of ally addresses the importance of safeguarding these kinds the challenging issues facing leadership, the membership of resources. We take the obligation to consult and accom- will have to pass on whatever our negotiators are able to modate very, very seriously, as we of course must. achieve. Tat will give the community the opportunity to Tere are always ways to improve this. One of the ways, fnally say yes or no to the package to be negotiated. as I mentioned earlier, is through such tools as the strategic engagement agreements — SEAs, we call them — that are J. Rustad: I think the reason for raising this is there found across the province. We can do better, I think, but have been a number of meetings that the chief and some we really always have to go back to the legal obligation councillors have held with the province, associated with imposed upon us by the constitution. the treaty land entitlement, that the other councillors were not even invited to or made aware of — the councillors J. Rustad: I’m going to switch to another topic that I just that were in opposition. So it is troubling in terms of the want to touch on briefy, which is treaty land entitlements process that’s undergoing with the Blueberry First Nation, up in the Peace River country, with treaty 8, in particu- which is why I asked the question particularly around the lar, with the negotiations with the Blueberry First Nation. need for this broader community engagement. Tere has been a lot of engagement with the Blueberry I recognize, of course, that we have elected chief and Nation, with the other communities, around this. Tere councils. Tose elected chief and councils have the author- is signifcant resistance within the Blueberry First Nation ity to enter into the agreements. But at the same time, there itself to a treaty land entitlement agreement. Yet things is also this need for the broader community engagement. seem to still be proceeding. I guess I just want to confrm. Te ministry does rec- Does the ministry intend to complete the treaty land ognize the authority of the elected chief and council. But entitlement agreements with the Blueberry before — or does the ministry also recognize that there does need to be I guess, excluding…? Sorry, let me try to rephrase that. that broader community engagement, as opposed to enter- Does the ministry plan to complete these agreements with ing into an agreement that, quite frankly, a future chief and the chief and council, or are they going to ensure that there council that may represent a diferent interest, for example, is a full engagement and a vote within the nation itself in may actually want to be able to nullify or back out of? order for the agreements to be able to be completed? I guess part 2 of that question is: does a future chief and council have an opportunity to back out of such an agree- Te Chair: Members, before we go on, I’dlike to remind ment that may be a split agreement within a community? that all members must keep their masks on unless they are speaking. Please and thank you. Hon. M. Rankin: You know, the key to us in a cir- cumstance like this is twofold. One is that the determin- Hon. M. Rankin: I very much appreciate the question. ation of who is the chief and council is ultimately a fed- Te treaty land entitlement process involves a long-over- eral responsibility under the Indian Act. Te governance due requirement to make good on land in the treaty 8 ter- regime is for them to determine. But the second key point ritories. Tis process of negotiation with the federal gov- on this is that the Blueberry River First Nation settlement ernment, Blueberry and other nations and the province and land agreement must be ratifed through a majority has been going on for a very long time and involves hun- vote by community members before any settlement can be dreds of millions of dollars that the federal government is fnalized. required to pay, once we conclude those negotiations. So If there’s a change in leadership and that leadership is 1836 British Columbia Debates Thursday, May 13, 2021 not inclined to support this package and the membership ine what that means on the ground. Funding was recently agrees with them, then of course, there will be no agree- announced to facilitate that historic work, and our federal ment. Conversely, if the membership, having been in this partners are very much part of this process. process for so long, is of the view that it’s in the interests of I have worked with the Hereditary Chiefs, but I’ve met Blueberry River membership to agree, then of course, irre- with the elected members of the Wet’suwet’en people as spective of what the leadership says, that membership will well, in the communities that they are responsible for. I’ve vote in favour. delivered to them the same message that I have repeatedly We will not proceed unless and until that ratifcation delivered on behalf of the province to the Hereditary has occurred. Chiefs. Tat message is: we need to fnd unity. We need to have the ability — when we sign, we hope, an agreement J. Rustad: I want to switch to the third topic I’d like with the Wet’suwet’en — that it have the support of the to be able to cover here today, with the Wet’suwet’en First collectivity. Afer all, it is the Wet’suwet’en collectivity, the Nation. We just talked about the circumstance of a band Wet’suwet’en Nation, that has those rights, the Aboriginal council resolution and, for negotiation to be able to move title, which we know — since the courts told us — exists in forward, the need for a ratifcation vote within the nation. that territory. We’re in a situation where the province has entered into Terefore, we want to ensure that the unity occurs, in an agreement with the Ofce of the Wet’suwet’en, with the whatever process the Wet’suwet’en consider valid, to Hereditary Chiefs, where we have opposition from many demonstrate support of their community for this historic of the elected chiefs and councils to that agreement. Te agreement, which we hope we are able to succeed in elected chiefs and councils have informed me that they achieving, together with our federal partners. Tat is why have not been engaged, that they are not part of the pro- we are doing this. Te need for that unity is a matter, I cess and the discussions. stress, to both sides equally. We just hope that that can be [11:40 a.m.] achieved so that we can get on with this historic work that How does the minister plan to reconcile the interests we should have done long ago. of the federally recognized Indian Act chief and councils for the Wet’suwet’en First Nation with regards to the pro- J. Rustad: Tank you to the minister. Tat didn’t quite cess of an agreement which also is talking about resolv- answer the question, but perhaps let me put this in a little ing land issues? bit diferent way. On that important landmark case back in the 1990s, Hon. M. Rankin: Well, I appreciate this important topic what led to that case was that the unifed people elected being raised. It’s one I’ve had personal involvement in. I councils behind the Hereditary Chiefs who’d brought know the member himself appreciates the complexity of that case forward. Tey were unifed both with the the historic work that is going on with the Wet’suwet’en. Wet’suwet’en and the Gitxsan, and that was the success As he will be aware, in 1997, it was the Hereditary Chiefs of that case. Similarly, in the case that the minister had of the Wet’suwet’en who won a case in the Supreme Court referenced in the Tŝilhqot’in area, which was originally of Canada called Delgamuukw-Gisday’wa — a case that called the William case, that was a place where there was decided, famously, that there is Aboriginal title in the unity amongst the people in moving forward. Te court Wet’suwet’en territory but did not tell us where that is and recognized, as the constitution does, that title rests with what it means on the ground. the people and not necessarily, of course, with the lead- Te member will be aware that in 2014, in the Tŝil- ership style. hqot’in area, there was another title case, a case in which We’re in a situation here with the Wet’suwet’en where the courts did delineate 1,700 square kilometres of land in there is not unity, where there is division between the elec- the so-called declared title area where it was “Aboriginal ted and the hereditary. Te elected, who have important title,” and the parties have been working closely to try to roles in terms of the responsibilities for the people of the determine what that would mean on the ground. It was the Wet’suwet’en, are not aligned, are not part and have been Hereditary Chiefs, I repeat, who won that important vic- lef out. As a matter of fact, they aren’t even getting updates tory in the Delgamuukw-Gisday’wa case. Te chief justice with what’s going on in the information, in many cases, famously said, “We are all here to stay,” and we’ve got to from the last that I’ve heard. negotiate. [11:45 a.m.] Tat’s what we should have done, and didn’t. We did not Tis is a very troubling case, because they do not have resume those negotiations, I’m sad to report, until April of the unity within the nation, yet the province and the fed- 2019, almost a generation later. Here we are, trying to fg- eral government are proceeding with negotiation with the ure out…. I served as the provincial negotiator in that pro- Wet’suwet’en people, with the exclusion of the very people cess for some time. Both the Hereditary Chiefs and British — particularly those representatives from the elected side Columbia have said that they would like to avoid further — that should very well be part of that discussion. litigation on title, but we need to work together to determ- Tis is why I enter this. I’m in full agreement that I Thursday, May 13, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1837 would like to see reconciliation. As a matter of fact, when much clarity as I can, that that critical work is necessary if I was minister, I made many eforts to try to fnd a path to we are to move forward together. be able to bridge the diferences between the elected and I acknowledge that during the pandemic, it has been hereditary and fnd a way to do a nation-building exer- very difcult for the community to come together in the cise so that we could get on with some discussions around way that we would have liked. It’s difcult enough for us to title. Unfortunately, that just wasn’t there. Te will was not conduct negotiations on Zoom. I can imagine it’s difcult there by the parties. So as, obviously, these discussions go, internally as well. But I think the fact is we just provided this could be very troubling when I hear from some elec- additional funding, as did the federal government, to the ted councils that they may be forced to take court action Wet’suwet’en, with a specifc request that that be used for to try to actually get engaged and involved in the very the purposes of creating a constitution, to create the kind process that is supposed to be there to resolve rights and of unity that is necessary if we are going to succeed. title and long-term reconciliation with the Wet’suwet’en So there have been meetings that I’ve had with both people itself. So it’s troubling that we’re not seeing the sides. I have made the same speech to both sides about province…. At least, it doesn’t seem to be that the province the importance of unity, and, ultimately, it’s the nation. As is stepping up in terms of engaging with all of the people of the member properly pointed out, the title rests with the the Wet’suwet’en and are excluding, in particular, the elec- people, with the collectivity of the Wet’suwet’en nation. So ted side. therefore, we have to have evidence, as the province, that To the minister: how will the province support recon- they have that support before we would go beyond…. I ciliation across the Wet’suwet’en people so that there can think that message is delivered. be a unifed Wet’suwet’en people to be able to negotiate I would encourage both sides, as I’ve done again and with and ultimately resolve this long-outstanding issue? again, to come together. I’m hoping that with the pandem- ic coming to a close, if we’re fortunate, in the next while, Hon. M. Rankin: Before answering the question, I want that important work can be undertaken and their interests to commend and acknowledge the member’s work, when can be aligned. he was minister, in his eforts to fnd a path forward in Hon. Chair, I move that the committee rise, report pro- this difcult terrain. I know that he made eforts to do just gress and ask leave to sit again. what we are trying to do as well. I would point out that I have met with the elected lead- Motion approved. ers of the Wet’suwet’en, just as I, of course, have met with the hereditary leadership. I’ve encouraged them, with as Te committee rose at 11:49 a.m.

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