Tuesday Volume 536 22 November 2011 No. 227

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 22 November 2011

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 139 22 NOVEMBER 2011 140

Mr Burns: A deeply flawed survey is right in one respect: House of Commons under the current Government, 14,000 administrative and managerial posts have gone from the health service, Tuesday 22 November 2011 releasing money for front-line services. Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): The reality is, of The House met at half-past Two o’clock course, that the report from the Royal College of Nursing revealed that thousands of front-line nursing posts are PRAYERS being cut, and that last night a leaked report on commissioning revealed further bad news for front-line staff: that the Government plan to privatise large swathes [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] of the NHS, making GPs “bit-part players”. Does it remain Government policy to promote, in the words of BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS the report, “a strong and vibrant market” LONDON LOCAL AUTHORITIES BILL [LORDS] in the NHS, and, in the words of the Prime Minister, to (BY ORDER) “drive the NHS to be a fantastic business”? Consideration of Bill, as amended, opposed and deferred until Tuesday 29 November (Standing Order No. 20). Mr Burns: The report that was published at the weekend is deeply flawed. It is outrageous for an LONDON LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND TRANSPORT FOR organisation to seek to scare people for the sake of LONDON (NO.2)BILL [LORDS] (BY ORDER) cheap publicity. That report is as flawed as the report that was published a year ago. Far from there being the TRANSPORT FOR LONDON (SUPPLEMENTAL TOLL 50,000 cuts to which it referred, since May 2010 the PROVISIONS)BILL [LORDS] (BY ORDER) number of doctors has risen by 3,500, the number of Second Readings opposed and deferred until Tuesday consultants by 1,600, the number of registrars by 2,100 29 November (Standing Order No. 20). and the number of qualified radiography staff by 549. Moreover, the number of managers and administration officers has fallen by 14,000 to release money for improved Oral Answers to Questions health care.

Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Front-line staffing levels come under particular pressure in the HEALTH winter months because of the incidence of winter flu. Does my right hon. Friend welcome the news that at The Secretary of State was asked— Kettering general hospital, almost 60% of front-line staff have now been inoculated against flu? That compares NHS Staffing very well with last year’s national average of 35%.

1. Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab): What recent Mr Burns: I join my hon. Friend in congratulating assessment he has made of front-line staffing levels in staff at Kettering general hospital on their responsible the NHS. [81795] attitude, and urge other NHS staff throughout the country to follow their example. I am heartened to note The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon that, as a result of the planning and activity that has Burns): We fully recognise how important front-line taken place in the NHS, more staff are having flu jabs staff are to the provision of high-quality care. Local than did so last year. organisations are best placed to plan the work force who are required to deliver safe and high-quality services Marmot Review to patients.

Graeme Morrice: The Prime Minister promised to cut 2. Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): What plans he the deficit and not the national health service. Can the has to implement the recommendations of the strategic Minister tell us what has changed? review of health inequalities by Professor Marmot. [81796] Mr Burns: Nothing has changed. As the hon. Gentleman will know, the NHS budget is a protected budget, and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health during the lifetime of the present Parliament it will (Anne Milton): The public health White Paper “Healthy receive real-terms increases. What the hon. Gentleman lives, healthy people” gave details of our response to the may not know is that the number of full-time equivalent Marmot review, and addressed the social determinants clinical staff working in the NHS today is higher than it of health in people’s lives. I am sure that the hon. was in May 2010 and September 2009. Gentleman has read it. Yesterday we launched the University college London institute of health equity Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): Over the with Professor Sir Michael Marmot as its director, weekend, the Minister will have seen a number of reports supported by the Department. The institute will help to in the press that tens of thousands of NHS jobs were to promote the findings of the review across the NHS, go. Is he aware of any evidence that that is the case, or is public health and local government, and will ensure it pure trade union scaremongering? that health inequalities remain a priority. 141 Oral Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 142

Nick Smith: Parts of my constituency are more than living for all, by providing new strategies on child 1,200 feet above sea level. We know about the impact of poverty, social mobility, tax, pension retirement ages cold homes and fuel poverty on health. According to and so on. We are doing something, whereas the previous the latest figures, cold has caused 25,000 excess deaths Government did nothing. in England and Wales. What discussions has the Minister had with the Chancellor about the need to invest in Children’s Cardiac Services making our homes warmer to reduce the number of such deaths? 3. Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): What plans he has for the future of children’s cardiac services in England; Anne Milton: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that and if he will make a statement. [81797] question. He will be aware of the 27,500 excess winter deaths that occur across the country, which is an increase The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon of 17% on the deaths that occur at other times of the Burns): The review of children’s congenital heart services year. We have invested £30 million in total—£10 million is a clinically led, NHS review, independent of government. to the Department of Energy and Climate Change and The Joint Committee of Primary Care Trusts—JCPCT—on £20 million that local authorities can bid for—which behalf of local NHS commissioners, will decide the will help to reduce those figures. It is encouraging that future pattern of children’s heart surgery services in despite a very harsh winter last year the number of England. It is expected to make that decision next year. excess winter deaths has not risen. Nic Dakin: I thank the Minister for his reply. In view Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD): There is an of the Royal Brompton’s judicial review verdict, does he access issue when considering the rural dimension of agree that it is imperative that the breakdown of the health inequalities. The dispensing doctors play a huge assessments of all centres and all areas is fully disclosed, role in meeting need in rural areas, yet there are concerns so that confidence in the Safe and Sustainable review about changes in regulation that have affected them. can be restored? Will the Minister or one of her colleagues agree to meet me and representatives of that group to discuss their Mr Burns: As the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, it concerns? is imperative that Ministers continue to remain totally independent of this review, so that we cannot be accused Anne Milton: My right hon. Friend the Secretary of of interfering. As he knows, the JCPCT has said that it State for Health has already agreed to meet some people. plans to appeal against the decision, and we will have to The hon. Gentleman is right to say that health inequalities await the outcome of that. are not just something faced by the urban poor and deprived; they are also an issue in rural areas. We must Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): I fully make sure that people have adequate access. appreciate the degree of independence that Ministers must preserve, but is there anything that this Minister Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) can say on the methodology of the review to reassure (Lab): The Minister will be aware of the emphasis that the children’s heart unit at Southampton general hospital, Professor Michael Marmot places in his review of health which is rated the best in the country outside London, inequalities—which I have read, so I can quote it—on given that the review was, at one stage, excluding the “giving every child the best start in life”, entire population of the Isle of Wight in its calculations as to whether or not the unit should be in more than on creating one of the four options being put forward? “fair employment and good work for all” and on reducing “inequalities in income”. Yet, under Mr Burns: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his this Government, 90% of local councils will be forced question, although I will disappoint him by saying that to make cuts to Sure Start, unemployment continues to I will not be led from my chosen path and start to voice spiral—it is at a 17-year high—and, far from reducing an opinion. I will say, as I did say during the earlier income inequality, the House of Commons Library has debate that he attended, that of course it is not set in calculated that an area such as mine in Hackney, which stone that there will be only four options chosen, as and is one of the poorest in the country, will lose at least when—the number could be more. That is dependent £9.6 million in cuts to housing benefit alone and a on the consultations and the decision of the JCPCT, but further £2.84 million through cuts to child tax credit. he will appreciate that I cannot seek to influence those However desirable some of the organisational changes decisions. in public health are in principle, how can the Government possibly make progress on tackling health inequality in NHS Hospital Debt that context? 4. Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): What Anne Milton: How can the hon. Lady give Government steps he is taking to reduce the burden of debt for NHS Members lectures on health inequalities, given that hospitals. [81798] those got worse under the previous Government? Life expectancy in Kensington and Chelsea is 85 whereas it The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): is 74 in Blackpool, and that is after 13 years of a Labour Although the overall financial position remains healthy, Government. Family nurse partnerships have doubled we will continue to focus on the small number of and we are well on track to get the additional 4,200 organisations in the NHS that are struggling to manage health visitors. Through the public health Cabinet Sub- their finances. We are working to help all NHS trusts to Committee we are determined to raise the standard of be sustainable providers of high-quality health care and 143 Oral Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 144 move forward to foundation trust status. That will The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health include, where appropriate, agreeing solutions to resolve (Anne Milton): For the first time, public health money the regrettable legacy of debt from the previous will be ring-fenced and from April 2013 local authorities Government. will receive that ring-fenced public health grant, targeted at areas with high population need and weighted for Sarah Newton: Despite the fact that the staff of the inequalities. In the preceding year—that is 2012-13—the Royal Cornwall Hospitals NHS Trust has made big shadow allocation will be published to allow local strides forward in improving patient care while delivering authorities to plan for the following year. efficiency savings, the trust is saddled with historic debt, Emma Reynolds: As the Minister knows, public health largely as a result of Labour accountancy measures. problems are much more acute in areas of high deprivation. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that is grossly Wolverhampton primary care trust has been incredibly unfair and will he meet me to find ways of writing off successful in reducing teenage pregnancies and increasing the remaining Labour debt so that my constituents can childhood nutrition. Will she reassure me in detail on stop worrying about the future of the only acute hospital exactly what weighting will be given to deprivation so in Cornwall? that that good work in Wolverhampton can continue? Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend and Anne Milton: We have commissioned advice from the completely concur. I have the privilege of visiting Treliske independent Advisory Committee on Resource Allocation hospital and seeing the good work that is being done and recently completed a survey of current NHS spend there. In the course of the last financial year, the trust on public health. As the hon. Lady says, allocation returned a surplus and it is projecting a surplus this needs to be weighted for inequalities and we are particularly year. As she knows, it has a legacy of debt that is being keen that the committee develops a formula that captures financed by a working capital loan. As with other NHS within-area deprivation, which has been an issue in the trusts, we are looking to ensure that through the process past. Otherwise, affluent areas with pockets of deprivation of becoming a foundation trust it will move from having tend to be ignored. If we want to improve the health of legacy debts from the previous Government’s regime to the poorest fastest, we must consider the heath need being financially sustainable year-on-year while meeting and deprivation. the viability and balance sheet criteria for foundation trust status. Fabian Hamilton: Will the Minister reassure my constituents that when the money is transferred to local Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): When will authorities, the staff will also be transferred from the the Secretary of State get a grip and sort out the NHS to those local authorities? Will there be sufficient problems of PFI long-term funding—[Laughter.]—given resource within them to keep employing some of the the fact that Ministers promised to do that six months excellent staff who currently work in the NHS? ago and that we are no nearer a resolution than we were Anne Milton: The hon. Gentleman is right to draw before? attention to the excellent work that has been done despite the fact that public health budgets have not Mr Lansley: I do not know whether Hansard will previously been ring-fenced. Indeed, what we have seen record it, but the mirth with which that remark was met previously is PCTs raiding public health budgets for is an indication from Members that they know perfectly service provision, which is one reason why inequalities well, as the hon. Gentleman ought to know, that the in health have got worse. It is extremely important that previous Labour Government left a terrible legacy of we transfer expertise, and employment law will ensure unaffordable PFI projects that were poor value for that all the transition is managed smoothly. money when they were introduced. He knows perfectly well the position his local trust has been put in. We are Grahame M. Morris: We are having problems getting working through that, and out of the work that has reports published by the Department of Health. Will been done to resolve that poor legacy, we identified the Minister tell us about the public health outcomes 22 NHS trusts which said that their PFI was an impediment. framework by which we will measure progress in tackling We are working with all of them to resolve that. and reducing health inequalities? What does the fact that the framework still has not been published say Public Health Funding about the Government’s commitment to reducing health inequalities?

5. Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): Anne Milton: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman What plans he has to allocate resources to local would not want us to rush this. It is extremely important authorities when they assume responsibility for public that for the first time we will have a public health health. [81799] outcomes framework. There was no such framework under the previous Government, so it is important that we get it right. It will be an important signal to local 9. Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) (Lab): What authorities about what we expect them to achieve—with, plans he has to allocate resources to local authorities as I have said, a focus on improving the health of the when they assume responsibility for public health. poorest fastest. [81803] Mr Stephen Dorrell (Charnwood) (Con): As we transfer 10. Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): What public health responsibilities to local Government— steps he plans to take to ensure that the allocation of something that has been very broadly welcomed—is it public health funding reduces health inequalities. [81804] not important that in addition to a clear definition of 145 Oral Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 146 the funds that are going to be transferred, subject to Nick de Bois: The Secretary of State knows that I a ring fence, we also have a clear definition of the believe in less, not more, regulation, but given the responsibilities that local authorities will be expected to increasing role and responsibilities of health care assistants, discharge in the new world? When can we expect that particularly with the elderly, does he agree that the time definition to be put into the public arena? has come both to recognise their increased responsibilities and to provide safeguards at a national level by requiring Anne Milton: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. them to be on a national register? Conditions will be attached to the ring-fenced money to determine how it can be spent, but any expenditure will Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend will know that health need to refer to promoting or protecting public health. I care and social care support workers do responsible hesitate to use the word “shortly”, which the previous jobs and that the responsibility for them lies principally Government used on many occasions, but it will be with their employers and the staff who supervise them. published along with the outcomes framework. It is We made provision in the White Paper we published last important that we get it right. December for a process of assured voluntary registration. What I announced and referred to a moment ago will give a code of conduct and standards that will form a basis Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): Will the Minister for an assured voluntary registration scheme in future. join me in congratulating Kent county council and Dover district council on their enthusiasm for taking Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): One over public health responsibilities and on the fact that key care standard is the time that people have to wait they are looking at how to expand the resources that are for their treatment. Labour got waiting times down to available by considering the co-commissioning of social an historic low, and we warned the Secretary of State services with local GPs? Finally, may I inject a note of what would happen if he relaxed the 18-week standard. caution about the new community health trusts? Figures show that the number of patients waiting longer than 18 weeks is up by 43% and, despite the U-turn that Anne Milton: I am happy to join my hon. Friend in the Government have made on the use of targets, is not congratulating Kent county council. As he rightly points the problem that they have been so fixated on their out, these moves have been welcomed by many local top-down reorganisation that they lost control of waiting authorities, many of which already do much to improve lists? Surely it is time for them to drop the Health and the health and well-being of their populations. It is Social Care Bill and focus on the things that really extremely important that councils are eager to start, as I matter to the people using and working in the NHS. know they are, and eager to get that money and see the public health outcomes framework so that they can Mr Lansley: I am sorry, but that was all completely build on some of the good work they have already done. synthetic anger on the hon. Gentleman’s part. The average time that patients have been waiting in the NHS Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Harlow has one of for treatment continues to be between eight and nine the highest levels of obesity in the east of England. Will weeks. It has been so ever since the last election. The my hon. Friend ensure that the resources that are directed operational standard under the previous Government to local authorities are properly used to solve such and now for the 18-week waiting time is that at least problems? 90% of patients who are admitted for treatment should be admitted and treated within 18 weeks, and 95% of outpatients. Both of those operational standards continue Anne Milton: Yes, this is not only about resources, as to be met. Last week I made it clear that whereas the my hon. Friend rightly says. Some 60% of adults are previous Government abandoned people who went beyond overweight or obese, and those figures are even higher 18 weeks—and there were 250,000 of them who went in some areas. It is extremely important not only that beyond 18 weeks—we will not abandon those forgotten any money is followed by that public health outcomes patients. We will make sure that they, too, are brought framework, but that it is effective. This is not something into treatment as soon as possible. we can simply chuck money at, as the previous Government did. Dental Services

Care Standards 8. Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): What arrangements he has put in place to involve dental practitioners in the commissioning of dental 6. Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): What steps he services. [81802] is taking to raise the standards of care provided by health care workers and care assistants. [81800] The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul Burstow): Responsibility for the commissioning of all The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): dental services across primary, salaried and secondary I have commissioned Skills for Health and Skills for care will sit with the NHS Commissioning Board. The Care in partnership with employers, unions, regulators, vision for commissioning dental services sees dental educators and others to develop a code of conduct and local professional networks developing and delivering minimum training standards for health care support local service plans and quality improvement strategies workers and adult social care workers in England. This across all dental services and providing clinical leadership will give employers and patients confidence in the and expertise at local level. This will enable dentists, employment and standards of staffing at all levels. I working with commissioners and other local stakeholders, expect the final report and recommendations by to ensure that all dental services are integrated and September 2012. work together in the most efficient way. 147 Oral Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 148

Natascha Engel: I thank the Minister for that answer, Mr Lansley: Yes, of course. My hon. Friend understands but I still do not see why GPs are good enough to very well indeed how difficult are the circumstances of commission services locally, but dentists are not. Can his trust, which includes two PFI hospitals, and Queen he explain exactly how dentists are to be involved, in the Mary’s at Sidcup has suffered from the consequences of same way as GPs are, in commissioning services locally? those PFIs. I am looking forward to the proposals on the future provision of health services on the Queen Paul Burstow: I refer the hon. Lady to the answer that Mary’s Sidcup site. South London Healthcare is clearly I just gave. The vision for commissioning dental services an extremely challenged trust and we inherited very sees dental local professional networks developing and substantial problems there. We are looking to resolve delivering local services and local quality improvement them with it, but it will need additional national support. strategies. Beyond that, it involves local health and wellbeing boards working together closely, involving Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): In addition to struggling local clinicians through the networks that I referred to hospital trusts, many, many community hospitals earlier. The answer is that local dental clinicians will be throughout the country, such as Savernake hospital fully involved in the ways that I have just described. near Marlborough, are also labouring under the burden of an enormous PFI contract and having the indignity Private Finance Initiative Payments of vital local services hollowed out under that lot’s leadership on the Labour Benches. Will the Secretary of 11. Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): What steps State please tell me what he will do to help those smaller his Department plans to take to assist hospitals with hospitals with vital local services? the cost of PFI payments. [81805] Mr Lansley: As my hon. Friend knows from her 12. Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) conversations with the Minister of State, Department (Con): What steps his Department plans to take to of Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford assist hospitals with the cost of PFI payments. [81806] (Mr Burns), we are very sympathetic to her concerns. By devolving commissioning responsibilities to clinical The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley):A commissioning groups, I expect the local clinical leadership, Treasury review identified savings opportunities of up understanding fully the contribution that community to 5% on annual payments in NHS PFI schemes. The hospitals can make, to be supportive of that in their lessons learned from the PFI savings pilot will be applied commissioning intentions in her constituency and others. to all schemes in the PFI pipeline. The previous Government left a £50 billion post-dated cheque to pay for their Health and Wellbeing Boards hospital building programme. Much of it was unaffordable and poor value for money. We are dealing with that unfortunate legacy, including the 22 NHS trusts that 14. Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): What plans identified this as a constraint on their future sustainability. he has to ensure balanced political and geographical representation on health and wellbeing boards. [81809] Mr Jones: I thank my right hon. Friend for his response. PFI schemes have undoubtedly undermined The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul the financial stability of many local health economies, Burstow): The Health and Social Care Bill sets minimum as is the case in Coventry and Warwickshire. Can my membership for health and wellbeing boards. The boards right hon. Friend assure my constituents that any solution will provide local system leadership, assessing need and to assist PFI schemes, such as at the University Hospitals setting the strategy for commissioning health, social Coventry and Warwickshire NHS Trust, will not be to care and public health. Ensuring that the board has the the detriment of my constituents who use the George benefit of a broad range of opinion and geographical Eliot hospital in Nuneaton? spread is a matter for local decision. However, the Department’s health and wellbeing board national learning Mr Lansley: Yes, I believe I can give my hon. Friend network is developing and sharing good practice to that assurance. Through the process of working with inform those decisions. NHS trusts to see what is necessary for them to become foundation trusts—for example, we are working with Dr Huppert: Does my hon. Friend agree that the University Hospitals Coventry and Warwickshire NHS ability of a health and wellbeing board to represent Trust—it is clear that action taken locally with support democratically the interests of the people in its area can deliver viability and sustainability for the future. I would be boosted by having a reasonable number of hope the same will be true for the George Eliot hospital, councillors on it with both geographical representation but as a separate trust it will not be as a direct consequence across the area and political balance? of the steps that are taken at Walsgrave. Paul Burstow: We are telling local authorities that Mr Evennett: I welcome my right hon. Friend’s response they can have a majority of elected members on health to the original question. Poorly negotiated PFI deals for and wellbeing boards if that is the appropriate way hospitals in the South London Healthcare NHS Trust forward for their local community. My hon. Friend’s are causing real financial problems and have led to the area, Cambridgeshire county council, recognises the downgrading of Queen Mary’s hospital in my borough importance of ensuring that there is a geographical of Bexley. Does he share my concerns about this injustice, spread and a full involvement of local opinion in those and will he ensure that my constituents get the first-class boards. There is a special event next January for stakeholders health care that they need and deserve and look again at to get information about that, in which I hope my hon. this PFI situation? Friend will take part. 149 Oral Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 150

Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): Is not there a Mr Lansley: I entirely understand my hon. Friend’s danger that health and wellbeing boards will simply be point. I of course will not prejudice whatever might be a talking shop for bureaucrats? said in relation to that, but I will look at the report very carefully when it is presented. Paul Burstow: No. Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab): Social care is vital for reducing winter pressures on the NHS by helping to Winter Pressures (NHS) keep older people out of hospital, but the Government are cutting funding for older people’s social care by 15. Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): What plans he £1.3 billion. Delayed discharges from hospitals are already has to ensure that the NHS is prepared for winter up 11% from this time last year. The Minister responsible pressures. [81810] for care said in Westminster Hall on 10 November: “cuts to front-line adult social care services are really beginning to The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): bite.”—[Official Report, 10 November 2011; Vol. 535, c. 178WH.] The NHS and social care systems are well prepared for Does the Secretary of State agree? winter. Our Winterwatch summary was first published last Thursday. It showed higher flu vaccination uptake, Mr Lansley: I have to say to the hon. Lady that it was and I announced additional extracorporeal membrane this Government who, through the spending review, oxygenation—ECMO—capacity, which will be in place gave priority to social care. More than £7 billion was by December. There is always more pressure on the added to the social care budget as a consequence of the NHS during winter. This year will be no different, but steps taken by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of the preparations are in place. State for Communities and Local Government and by the NHS. This year the NHS is providing an additional Guy Opperman: Given the director of immunisation’s £648 million specifically to support adult social care. In recent report on the take-up by medical staff of the flu addition, I have announced our Warm Homes Healthy jab and the local efforts of Dr Alastair Blair, the chair People funding for this winter, which will provide additional of the Northumberland clinical commissioning group, support for those most urgently in need. will the Minister expand on the need for patient protection in the form of flu jabs in hospitals and surgeries around Accident and Emergency Provision the country? 16. John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab): How many accident Mr Lansley: I would like to take this opportunity not and emergency departments have reduced their on-site least to commend the work that the chief medical service provision in the last 12 months. [81811] officer has done this year in encouraging health care workers to have their seasonal flu jab. The latest figures The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon are that 29% have done so, compared with 11% at the Burns): This information is not collected centrally. It is same point last year. We heard earlier from my hon. for NHS commissioners to secure high-quality services Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) how for their communities. Where a substantial service change well Kettering has done, and there are hospitals that are is proposed, decisions should be made against the Secretary demonstrating that a higher level is entirely achievable. I of State’s four tests, including support from GP urge staff across the NHS to have their flu vaccination. commissioners and clear evidence of patient and public It is the ethical thing to do, not least to provide protection engagement. to their patients. John Mann: Broadening the definition of major trauma would have disastrous consequences for many A and E John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): One of departments, not least those in Bassetlaw and the the things that makes the problem of winter pressures surrounding towns in south Yorkshire and the north much greater is the NHS coping with the biggest midlands. Can the Minister give an absolute guarantee reorganisation ever. The public have a right to know the that the definition of major trauma is not being broadened, risks that the Government’s policies are placing on our so that those hospitals and their A and E departments NHS. The Information Commissioner agrees and has are not put in jeopardy? judged that the Secretary of State must now release the risk assessments and register for his NHS reorganisation. Mr Burns: The assurance I can give the hon. Gentleman Will he now obey the law and end his 12-month cover-up? is that the siting of A and E departments will be a matter of clinical judgment. I can also assure him that Mr Lansley: I have been very clear and published all £900,000 will be invested in the A and E department at the cost-benefit and risk information relating to the Bassetlaw hospital for improvements, including the creation modernisation of the NHS, and the impact assessment of a three-bay resuscitation room, a larger waiting area was published when the legislation was presented to the for patients and other improvements to enhance the House of Lords. quality of care for his constituents.

David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con): Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con): At a recent The Care Quality Commission and Monitor are looking surprise visit to my local A and E department, at the into the affairs of the University Hospitals of Morecambe Conquest hospital, I was delighted to find a very high Bay NHS Foundation Trust. Will my right hon. Friend quality of care. Will the Minister reassure me that any assure my constituents that whatever the findings, the local reconfiguration puts high-quality patient care at Government will act upon them quickly? the centre of delivery? 151 Oral Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 152

Mr Burns: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I Mr Sheerman: Does the Secretary of State share the am glad that she had such a positive experience visiting concerns that I have picked up in my constituency? her local A and E. I can categorically tell her that First, although we have very good nurses in Huddersfield, reconfigurations must be carried out in accordance with national stories about a lack of care for elderly people the Secretary of State’s four tests and that clinical safety make all of us worried about the quality of training of and quality of care are paramount. some nurses in some institutions. Secondly, will he remember that, with his demolition of the health service, Social Care we are moving to a system in which no management training is given to any doctor or GP? Is that not a 17. Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): What discussions recipe for chaos? he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the future costs of long-term social care. [81812] Mr Lansley: On the latter point, I have been talking to those in training, and part of their education increasingly The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul includes leadership. That is what we are looking for—clinical Burstow): The Government are committed to publishing leadership, not to turn clinicians into managers. They a White Paper and a progress report, responding to will work with managers, but they will provide leadership. both the Law Commission and the Dilnot commission On nursing training, the Care Quality Commission’s recommendations. As part of ongoing work, there have recent inspection reports, in particular, illustrated the been numerous discussions throughout the Government, sheer variability of care—sometimes even between wards including with Her Majesty’s Treasury. in the same hospital. On that basis, we should not in any sense damn the quality of nurse training; we need to Julie Hilling: At least 5,000 families a month are focus on the quality of nurse leadership—ward by having to make decisions about the long-term care of ward, and hospital by hospital. loved ones. Since the election, thousands have had to sell their homes and spend every penny on care. How many more people—and for how much longer—will Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): The new have to be terrified about their future? Government’s strategy on human trafficking requires the NHS to ensure that victims of human trafficking Paul Burstow: If the hon. Lady had prefaced her question are recognised in hospitals and reported. One way of with an apology for failing to sort out the problem for doing that is to improve training for nurses. I have just 13 years, I might have taken it more seriously. This returned from Moldova, where nurses have a course on Government moved urgently to establish the commission human trafficking as part of their training, so that they chaired by Andrew Dilnot, we are now actively working can recognise victims and help them. Is that something through his proposals, and we will come forward with that we could incorporate here? legislation and a White Paper in due course. Mr Lansley: I am interested to hear my hon. Friend’s Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): Does my hon. experience. I certainly look forward to hearing more Friend agree that the integration of health and social from him about it, and to taking it on board in considering care should be leveraged by commissioners to encourage how we respond to those obviously tragic victims. savings in the acute sector, to contribute to funding much-needed improvements in long-term social care? Strategic Risk Register Paul Burstow: There is no doubt that more integration between health and social care is a way of improving the quality of services delivered to the public, and of 19. Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): What releasing resources that can then be reinvested in improving assessment he has made of the effects of publishing his services. We know, for example, that the use of reablement Department’s strategic risk register on his restructuring services can reduce costs and improve the quality of life of the NHS. [81814] outcomes for the people who receive them. The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon Training (Nurses and Doctors) Burns): Publishing the Department’s risk register would have implications beyond the Department of Health, 18. Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): and we are taking the time granted to us by the Information What steps he is taking to improve the training of Commissioner before deciding whether to appeal against nurses and doctors. [81813] his decision requiring its release.

The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): Kerry McCarthy: I think I thank the Minister for that Our reforms aim for excellence in education and training response, which at least gives some indication of where and for a better patient experience by ensuring greater the Government are coming from. But, given the widespread accountability for employers in planning and developing concern among the public about the risks posed by the their work force while being professionally informed Health and Social Care Bill, and given that the Information and underpinned by strong academic links. I have always Commission has ruled that the register should be published, been clear that I want to see greater professional ownership does the Minister not think that it should be published of the standards of education and training, and greater before Report stage in the House of Lords, so that at employer engagement in getting work force planning the very least the findings can be used to inform the right. We will publish more details on that when the amendments being tabled to rescue the Bill even at this NHS Future Forum reports shortly. late stage? 153 Oral Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 154

Mr Burns: No, I do not think that the register should up, delayed discharges up, and nurses made redundant. be published before then, in so far as we are still The truth is that he has placed the NHS in the danger considering whether or how to move forward within the zone, with a destabilising and demoralising reorganisation time scale that the Information Commissioner has given when it most needed stability. He says he wants feedback, us—[Interruption.] Before the hon. Lady gets too pious, so why does he not listen to patients and staff, put the I must tell her—I do not say “remind her”, because in NHS first and drop his dangerous Bill? the previous Government she will have been too busy tweeting, as the tweeting tsar, to know what the Department Mr Burns: It is marvellous how the right hon. Gentleman of Health was doing—that in September 2009 the right repeats his soundbite every time he discusses the NHS. I hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) similarly blocked have to tell him that he is wrong. He knows that the release of the Department of Health’s strategic risk NHS has to evolve. He knows that we have to improve register, using the non-disclosure provisions under section and enhance patient care. I think he does himself a 36 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, and that disservice by simply joining the ranks of organisations his predecessor, the right hon. Member for Kingston such as 38 Degrees, which is frightening people and upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson), did the getting them, almost zombie-like, to send in e-mails. same on two occasions in 2008. Topical Questions Mr Speaker: Order. It seems that the subject matter for an Adjournment debate is being provided. T1. [81820] Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): If he will make a statement on his departmental Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): Two, or even responsibilities. three, wrongs do not make a right. Regarding an exemplary risk register, does the Minister consider that the mitigation The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): plans for any risks identified there may serve to reassure My responsibility is to lead the NHS in delivering Members of the other House, if it were to be published improved health outcomes in England, to lead a public in advance of the conclusion of the Committee stage health service that improves the health of the nation there? and reduces health inequalities, and to lead the reform of adult social care, which supports and protects vulnerable Mr Burns: If the hon. Gentleman had read it, he people. would know that the important aspect—[Interruption.] He says that he cannot read it, but if he listens for a Helen Jones: Is the Secretary of State aware that minute, he will hear that the important parts that are plans to remove vascular services from Warrington relevant to the Health and Social Care Bill were published hospital will threaten services such as diabetes care, in January and September this year in the impact assessment renal cancer care and the co-operation on stroke that for the Bill. has been built up with Whiston hospital? What will he do to protect those services, or is this part of the plan he Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab): May I first commend discussed in February with NHS North West to reduce the Health Secretary on his ingenious new approach to the number of acute beds and increase competition? cutting delayed discharges? If his appearance on continuous loop on hospital TV does not cut length of stay, I do Mr Lansley: I am glad that on Monday the hon. Lady not know what will. One area where he has been noticeably will have an opportunity for an Adjournment debate less forthcoming is on the recent ruling by the Information where this subject can be— Commissioner, which could not be clearer: Parliament and the public have the right to know what extra risks Helen Jones: Answer the question! and threats his Department expects the NHS to face as a result of this top-down reorganisation. Let us give Mr Lansley: I will of course answer the question. The him one more chance to give us a clear commitment: answer is that this is entirely driven by clinical issues in a will he live up to the Prime Minister’s words on transparency local context. I can tell the hon. Lady that it is very and openness and publish the report in full without delay? much about trying to improve vascular services, and the judgments being made are local and clinical. Mr Burns: The right hon. Gentleman may not have been listening to the response I gave to his hon. Friend, T2. [81821] Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): which was that the relevant aspects of the risk assessment What leadership role do the Government expect the have been incorporated into the impact assessments new health and wellbeing boards to play in determining published in January and September. [Interruption.] significant NHS service changes in each local area? Before he, too, gets too pious, may I remind him that it was he himself who, in September 2009, blocked the Mr Lansley: The health and wellbeing boards will publication of his Department’s risk assessment? have a role not only in leading improvements in public health and social care but, through the joint strategic Andy Burnham: I would happily have paid £5 to opt needs assessment and the strategy derived from that, in out of that particular pre-scripted loop message. Unlike establishing how services should respond to the needs the Minister and his fellow Front Benchers, I was not of the local population. The clinical commissioning subject to a ruling from the Information Commissioner. group should respond directly to that, and any specific People watching this today will be left wondering what service configuration changes should form part of the he and the Secretary of State are so desperate to hide. commissioning plan. In addition, the local authority, He can hide the report, but he cannot hide the growing through its scrutiny role, will have a continuing ability warning signs we are seeing in our NHS: waiting lists to refer those plans for review. 155 Oral Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 156

T4. [81823] Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab): Anne Milton: The medicines legislation governs the Will the Secretary of State agree to meet me, and range of health professionals who can prescribe. The families living with muscle disease, to discuss the Government’s policy is that only registered and regulated urgent problem of primary care trusts refusing to fund health professionals should be able to train for that; vital cough assist machines, which help to prevent physicians’ assistants are neither. serious and very costly winter respiratory infections for those who are unable to use their lung muscles to T6. [81825] Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): After cough? speculation about the future of the Department of Health’s free nursery milk scheme, will the Secretary Mr Lansley: Of course I, or one of my colleagues, of State assure families and nurseries that he recognises will be glad to meet the hon. Lady to discuss that. I the value of free nursery milk in preparing young might also say that it was important to have announced, people for a good future and well-being in life? as I did last week, the expansion of ECMO—extracorporeal membrane oxygenation—facilities across England. Those Anne Milton: I assure the hon. Gentleman that we do facilities present a life-saving opportunity for people recognise the value of nursery milk. The only shocking with the severest respiratory disease. thing is that the previous Government presided over a scheme whereby nursery milk is now costing double the T3. [81822] Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): My retail price, and we urgently need to look at that. We are apologies, Mr Speaker, for having missed my question committed to continuing the scheme, but shocked at on the Order Paper earlier. what has gone on before. Every five minutes someone in the UK suffers from a T8. [81827] Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): An stroke, and over 1 million people are living with the independent study of the patient assumptions of the effects of stroke. That is why I welcome the establishment Safe and Sustainable review has confirmed what many of the first “life after stroke” centre—a £2 million of us already knew: that, contrary to the review’s investment in my constituency. Will my right hon. Friend claims, most families in Yorkshire and the Humber will join me in welcoming this excellent initiative by the travel not to Newcastle but to Leicester or Liverpool. Stroke Association? Will my right hon. Friend seek confirmation from the Safe and Sustainable review body that it will revise its Mr Lansley: Yes, of course I will join my hon. Friend options in the light of that new evidence? in paying tribute to all the work that I know personally that the Stroke Association has done over a number of The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon years in raising public awareness of the importance Burns): I am grateful to my hon. Friend and I have of developing stroke services, which has had an impact heard the important point that he has made. No doubt inside the NHS. We have improving figures in terms of the Joint Committee of Primary Care Trusts will also reducing stroke mortality, and I now want to go further hear the point that he has made to me. I am sure that he in ensuring that we enable people not only to survive understands that it would be totally inappropriate for stroke but to recover as many as possible of their me to give any view that might compromise the abilities afterwards. independence of Ministers on this independent review.

T5. [81824] Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): (Lab): Will the Minister with responsibility for public What is the Secretary of State’s estimation of the number health update the House on her plans to review the of NHS doctors and nurses who, in an astoundingly criteria whereby people with haemophilia who have demoralising way, are having their pay grades downgraded? been infected with hepatitis C can claim stage 2 payments from the Skipton fund? Specifically, will she tell us how Mr Lansley: I do not have a figure for that. If the she intends to involve patients and carers in that review? hon. Lady and others want to discuss it, I would be glad to see evidence of it—and so should NHS employers, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health because as part of the implementation of “Agenda for (Anne Milton): I know that the right hon. Gentleman Change”, staff should be banded in grades according to has campaigned hard on this issue. I can assure him that independent criteria. I recently met a group of MPs, and constituents of theirs who are suffering from hepatitis. As he knows, T9. [81828] Mr David Amess (Southend West) (Con): there is a wide spectrum of illness associated with Last year in Westminster Hall, the Under-Secretary of chronic hepatitis C infection. We are aware that people State for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Guildford could be suffering financial hardship as a result, and I (Anne Milton) rightly praised the work of midwives would urge them to apply to the Caxton Foundation. and the Royal College of Midwives. Does she share my The Department’s expert advisory group on hepatitis C concern that locally, there could be a downgrading of will continue to keep the evidence under review. community midwives, leading to an overall reduction in the number of midwives in our area? T7. [81826] Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): In a number of surgeries in my constituency, and in many across the Anne Milton: I thank my hon. Friend, and I will take country, physicians’ assistants play a very important this opportunity to praise again the work of midwives role in enhancing capacity. Can my hon. Friend say and the Royal College of Midwives. It was a pleasure to whether there are any plans in the Department of be at its conference only last week. I would point out Health to allow physicians’ assistants to be able to that there are now more than 20,000 full-time equivalent prescribe medication? midwives. That is an increase of 2.4% on last year. We 157 Oral Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 158 have record numbers of midwives in training, with also be very pleased to hear, as I am sure the whole 2,493 this year and an increase on that next year. What House will, that I visited a hospital and community matters is that we get the right services for women who centre that combines western medicine and traditional are pregnant, ensure that they can exercise the choices Chinese medicine. that they need, and get the right skills mix. Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): The coalition agreement Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Figures today reveal states that public sector employees, including health that older women are being discriminated against in care employees, will be given a new right to set up breast cancer treatment, with some 20% of women over employee-led co-operatives to run services. Can the 65 receiving chemotherapy compared with some 70% of Minister detail how many NHS co-operatives have been women under 50. Will the Minister assure the House established and how many employees are involved in that those who are over 65 will receive equitable treatment, them? and that this discrimination will stop? Mr Lansley: I will gladly write to the hon. Gentleman The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul if my recollection is wrong, but I think that something Burstow): I am grateful for that question, and I assure in the order of 25,000 staff have been transferred into the hon. Gentleman that the Government are determined social enterprises since the election. That represents to root out ageism wherever it might be within the something like £900 million-worth of NHS activity NHS. That is why we have made it clear that there will across England. be no exemptions from age discrimination legislation—and that will have to be taken into account by clinicians when they make decisions. Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con): Pension reform is important to those of my constituents who work in the public sector—and, indeed, to the taxpayers Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): The recent who do not. With that in mind, does the Secretary of judicial review concerning the unit at the Royal Brompton State agree that the heath service unions should work hospital said that the Safe and Sustainable consultation constructively with the Government on public sector was unlawful and the review should be quashed. pension reform rather than go on strike next week, Considering the concern about this matter and the potentially putting patients’ lives at risk? flaws in the review, is it not time for the Minister to indicate when the Government might intervene? Otherwise, there could be further threats of judicial review. Mr Lansley: Yes, I am grateful to my hon. Friend. It is very important to me that NHS staff, and other Mr Simon Burns: The straightforward answer is no, public servants, are valued in their remuneration, including because the Joint Committee of Primary Care Trusts the pensions that they receive. That is precisely why I has said that it intends to appeal. This is an independent have myself engaged in discussion with the NHS trade review. It would be inappropriate for me or any other unions and staff side and continue to be engaged directly Minister to interfere in such a review, because we could in negotiations with them about that, on the basis of the be accused of compromising its independence. conditional offer that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury announced to the House recently, which I think would Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): The Prime be fair to NHS staff and to taxpayers. On that basis, I Minister promised a bare-knuckle fight to save A and E think it is completely irresponsible and unacceptable for and maternity units at King George hospital, Chase some unions in the NHS—not the Royal College of Farm hospital and other hospitals that the Secretary of Nursing or the British Medical Association—to intend State now plans to close. When will that fight take place, to go on strike next week. and where can hon. Members purchase tickets for ringside seats? Mr Speaker: We are immensely grateful to the Secretary of State. He is testing the knee muscles of colleagues Mr Burns: I heard what the hon. Gentleman said, very considerably, and we are grateful to him for that, I and I was disappointed that we did not reach his question am sure. on the Order Paper earlier, because he has been extremely concerned about the A and E in his own area in Hartlepool. Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): Today’s That decision was taken on safety grounds. Emergency report by Macmillan Cancer Support showed that over care has been provided at the One Life centre. The the past 40 years there has been virtually no improvement decision was taken with the support of the local overview in life expectancy for those diagnosed with a brain and scrutiny committee, which he will appreciate has tumour. Brain Tumour UK and experts such as my democratic accountability. That was the right decision. city’s own Professor David Walker are calling for action Where there are clinical reasons for taking such decisions, to improve diagnosis and treatment. What action is the they should be taken. Department taking to address their concerns?

David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): Has my right Paul Burstow: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her hon. Friend the Secretary of State or any of his ministerial question. Macmillan has done a very good job by colleagues been able to visit the People’s Republic of highlighting the need to focus on survival rates with China to consider traditional Chinese medicine? regard not only to brain cancers but to lung cancers. Through our outcomes strategy, we are focusing on Anne Milton: I thank my hon. Friend for that question. earlier diagnosis and ensuring that the care pathway is He must be psychic, because I recently visited China, faster and delivers the appropriate treatments at the and it was fascinating to meet Ministers there. He will right time. 159 Oral Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 160

Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): There are 3,000 cases each every year that end up with people in A and E, and year of early stage inoperable lung cancer, but as yet no occasional fatalities. Has the Secretary of State carried national stereotactic body radiotherapy treatment for out any assessment of the cost to the NHS of treatment lung cancer. What number of patients does the Secretary for attacks by dangerous dogs? If not, may I ask him to of State consider to be the appropriate threshold at instruct his officials to do so? which he will instruct his Department to establish a national lung cancer tariff? Mr Lansley: I do not have those figures to hand, but Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that I will gladly see whether we have them available, and I question. I do not think I am in a position to say what will write to the hon. Gentleman. figure is appropriate, but the national clinical director for cancer has already indicated to the NHS that he wishes us to develop a national tariff for stereotactic Several hon. Members rose— radiotherapy. A quarter of centres across the country already provide it, and our intention is to ensure that that is supported by a national tariff as soon as possible. Mr Speaker: Order. I apologise for disappointing colleagues, but Health questions are invariably box Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): Regrettably, there office, and usually a sell-out at that. We must now are still many thousands of attacks by dangerous dogs move on. 161 22 NOVEMBER 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 162

Coastguard Modernisation operating only one national maritime operations centre— MOC—with an unmanned back-up in Dover, rather than the two that were previously planned. 3.34 pm The second consultation exercise, which is what this The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport statement is about, invited views on four specific issues: (Mike Penning): With your permission, Mr Speaker, I the retention of both the centres at Stornoway and should like to make a statement on the Government’s Shetland and their operation on a 24/7 basis; the change final decisions about coastguard modernisation in the to a single maritime operations centre with an unmanned light of responses received to the second round of back-up in Dover; the retention of Holyhead rather consultation, which ended on 6 October 2011. than its paired centre at Liverpool; and the retention of Milford Haven rather than its paired centre at Swansea. I should first like to remind the House that the plans for coastguard modernisation announced by my right The second consultation closed on 6 October. I should hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge like again to thank all those who engaged in the process, (Mr Hammond) in his statement on 14 July, following including those in the service, members of the public the first round of consultation, are not about altering and Members from both sides of the House. All responses the arrangements for front-line rescue services around were read and examined by an independent team, which our coasts. Rescue activities will continue to be carried has helped to develop the modernisation proposals. I out as they are today by the 3,500 community volunteers am making its report on the issues identified in the in the Coastguard Rescue Service; the lifeboats operated consultation available today on the Maritime and by the Royal National Lifeboat Institution; independent Coastguard Agency website, and it will be available in lifeboats operated by volunteer groups; and our search the Library of the House. and rescue helicopters. The bravery and commitment Let me now turn to the specific questions we posed in shown by those providing front-line services have served the second consultation. The support for keeping open this country well and will continue to do so. both the centres at Stornoway and on Shetland was overwhelming, so I can confirm that we will keep them The plans we have announced specifically include an both open on a 24/7 basis. increase in the number of regular coastguard officers who provide operational leadership to support the On the move to a single maritime centre, concerns 3,500 volunteers in the Coastguard Rescue Service, were expressed about having both an unmanned centre whom I mentioned. These plans therefore reflect the and its back-up in the south, when they should be importance we attach to continuing the delivery of a geographically separated, and about the possible reduction first-class local rescue service directly serving citizens in capabilities at Aberdeen to co-ordinate oil or gas and recreational mariners. incidents if there was not to be a second main centre in Aberdeen. However, we continue to believe that with The decision announced on 14 July, and the further more centres remaining open on a 24/7 basis, there is details I am announcing today, are about modernising sufficient cover not to need a second nationally networked the coastguard co-ordination function only.Modernisation system. Consequently, there will be one network in the is needed to address the limited resilience of current south. rescue co-ordination arrangements, which have changed We also believe that the back-up at Dover is sufficiently little since the removal of the visual watch in the 1970s. distant from the maritime operations centre in the Modernisation will provide the operational resilience Portsmouth-Southampton area—I shall return to that needed; distribute work more effectively and efficiently later—to provide the necessary resilience while minimising around coastguard centres; make the most of the costs. However, we will retain additional specialist staff professional skills of our regular coastguards with levels in Aberdeen to maintain the Maritime and Coastguard of reward that match their responsibilities; and deliver Agency’s close links with the oil and gas sector. Those improved support and co-ordination for our Coastguard jobs will remain. Rescue Service and our search and rescue partners. On the choice of Holyhead rather than Liverpool, The original proposals, which we consulted on last representations were received stressing the scale and December, had been discussed and developed over several proximity of maritime and tourist activities at both years by the previous Government. We said at the locations; questioning the importance of the Welsh-language outset that we would have a genuine consultation and considerations highlighted in the first consultation; and that we expected the outcome of the process to be concerning the running-cost advantages and higher disposal improved and more resilient plans. costs for Liverpool. We considered the responses carefully, We made it clear in July that we had listened to the but as we made clear in July, we have identified no views expressed in the first consultation. As a result, we operational or financial reasons for preferring one location announced that, in implementing a nationally networked to the other. In particular there are no significant differences system, we would retain more coastguard centres than in running costs. originally proposed; keep all these centres operating In the light of comments in the first consultation, it is 24/7; and retain more regular coastguard jobs. These also our view that familiarity with Welsh place names, plans will keep open at least one of each of the paired rather than speaking Welsh, must be an important coastguard centres. Operational pairs have experience consideration supporting the retention of Holyhead. and knowledge in managing incidents across their shared As a result, I have concluded that Holyhead should geographical areas. Keeping at least one centre from form part of the nationally networked system and that each pair will therefore ensure that that experience and the co-ordination function at Liverpool will close. We local knowledge is retained. In addition, as we explained plan to maintain a marine office, coastguard rescue in July, the operational costs of retaining the 10 centres team, coastal operational hub and a radio mast at the overall plus a small centre in London will be offset by Liverpool site. 163 Coastguard Modernisation22 NOVEMBER 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 164

Representations were also received about the proximity, I understand, of course, that the closure of some particularly of maritime activities, at Milford Haven existing co-ordination centres and the loss of some and Swansea. The representations concerned the perceived coastguard jobs will come as a disappointment to those risks of having a centre so close to liquefied natural gas directly affected. However, the decisions that I have terminals at Milford Haven; better transport links in announced today will deliver the modernised, nationally- Swansea; and the wider potential recruitment pool in networked and fully resilient coastguard service that we the Swansea area. I must reiterate, however, that within require for the future, while also reducing costs. Critically, the nationally networked system, which will co-ordinate these decisions will enable us better to support our incidents in this area, there are no operational reasons coastguard volunteers and the front-line rescue capabilities for choosing one or other of these sites. Similarly, as on which the public and mariners depend. I commend was explained in July, we are satisfied that there are no this statement to the House. considerations that favour either location. In addition, we have not recently experienced any Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab): I recruitment problems at Milford Haven. As a result, I thank the Minister for an advance copy of his statement. have concluded that it remains right that the choice of I would expect no less a courtesy from a former fellow Milford Haven as the site for a continuing coastguard fireman, but it is especially generous coming from someone co-ordination centre should reflect the Department for who served with the Essex brigade to someone from Transport’s continuing substantial levels of employment London. I apologise to the Minister and to you, Mr Speaker, in Swansea. This means that we will no longer have a that my hon. Friend the Member for Garston and coastguard co-ordination function at Swansea, but we Halewood (Maria Eagle), the shadow Secretary of State plan that the building will remain in use as a coastal is not present. She has pursued the issue vigorously, as operations hub for the volunteer rescue teams. It will be have the shadow Secretary of State for Education and at that site. the shadow Leader of the House. She is particularly frustrated at being unable to be here today, especially as Having reached these decisions, I am today publishing her own station is to close. a short summary document that sets out a clear blueprint I also thank the Minister for making today’s statement, for the operation of the nationally networked coastguard ending the prolonged concern and uncertainty in coastguard co-ordination service comprising a single national operations communities. These exercises take time, and I know that centre in the Portsmouth area—again, I shall return to the Minister made a considerable personal effort in that—a back-up national operations centre at Dover; travelling to various parts of the country to meet and and centres at the MCA sites at Humber, Aberdeen, engage with staff and others. That is to his credit. He Shetland, Stornoway, Belfast, Holyhead, Milford Haven will also have listened to the respected chief executive of and Falmouth. This blueprint also sets out the previously the MCA, Sir Alan Massey, and the highly regarded announced provisional timetable for the closure of the chief coastguard, Rod Johnson. I, too, would like to other existing co-ordination centres before 31 March 2015. take this opportunity to express our support for them The centre at Solent will be replaced by the new maritime and the entire coastguard service, which so professionally operations centre. This timetable remains our best estimate co-ordinates the first-class search and rescue capability of when these centres will close, although clearly it will around our coast. need to be kept under review to match operational requirements. As a member of the Worshipful Company of Shipwrights, as former Shipping Minister and now as The document also explains—and I stress this point—the shadow Shipping Minister, I, like the Minister, am strong commitment to the coastguard presence that will proud to wear the red ensign badge, in solidarity with be retained at the existing MCA sites at Liverpool, and respect for British shipping in all its aspects. I have Swansea and the Thames, even after the co-ordination no doubt that the Minister has done his best within the centre function ends. There will be a similarly strong limits set by the Treasury and his departmental budget; presence in the Clyde area, but not at the existing site. but equally, I have no doubt that these proposals are at least partly driven by financial constraints. He knows Finally, I would like to say something about the the concerns out there about shipping safety owing to location of the new national maritime operations centre. the loss of Nimrods, the ending of the emergency With the full support of my right hon. Friend the towing vessel contract and the outstanding review of Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the air-sea search and rescue service. The Select Committee I am pleased to inform the House that the maritime on Transport, under the excellent chairmanship of my operations centre will be housed in the vacant fire hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs control centre building in Fareham—the significance of Ellman), echoed that concern when it said: that with a former fireman standing here will be obvious. “The evidence…raises serious concerns that safety will be The building’s existing facilities mean that the maritime jeopardised if these proposals proceed.” operations centre can be established quickly, allowing for an extensive programme of tests and trials to prove In that case the Government were right to look again and refine the new concept of operations for maritime and amend their original proposals. rescue co-ordination. Those tests and trials will be an I would be grateful if the Minister responded to a few important element in addressing the understandable questions. In the original plan he envisaged two operational concerns from many professional coastguards about centres, we assumed for resilience. Can he reassure the the operation of the new system and will ensure no House that the non-staffed back-up will be able to do reduction in capabilities in the transition period. The the job if the main centre crashes? Can he also say how choice of Fareham also makes best use of the Government’s quickly it would be up and running under such existing estate and minimises up-front costs, offering circumstances? Can he tell us how many coastguards best value for money. will remain in full-time employment after this modernisation 165 Coastguard Modernisation22 NOVEMBER 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 166

[Jim Fitzpatrick] an added danger to any sea user, will the Minister reconsider his plans for closing any coastguard co-ordination programme? I think he said that there would be more, centres, as the Prime Minister has already mentioned? but I assume that that is against the original consultation document, not the present establishment. Part of our Mike Penning: I thank my hon. Friend for her important review in government was about addressing low pay question. One point in having Fareham open so early is among coastguards historically, compared with similar that we will be able to trial the new system early, which staff, with similar duties, in the other emergency services. will mean that no centres will close before the robustness Given that remaining staff will be undertaking more of the system is demonstrated. Should there be any work with more responsibilities and that we anticipate blips in the system, I can assure my hon. Friend that no they will need to be upskilled, will this modernisation station will close until we have the level of resilience that address that historic anomaly? My last question is when we do not have today. we can expect a statement on the future of the air-sea search and rescue service. Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op): In conclusion, we welcome the Minister’s acceptance The Minister’s proposals mean a cut in staffing levels of the need to keep both Shetland and Stornoway, and covering the Clyde area of 56% in comparison with a we are relieved that the Department proposes 24/7 UK average cut of 33%. I see nothing in the statement cover at all the remaining stations. His decision to retain that changes that. Why does the Minister think that the one of each pair of twinned stations is an acknowledgement Clyde, which is the busiest area for callout, should have that the question of local knowledge weighed heavily a disproportionately higher cut in staffing? on him and his officials. I am sure he will understand, however, that in a number of communities out there Mike Penning: I am sorry if I misled the hon. Lady, now, there will be real disappointment and even anger but Clyde will close as a co-ordination centre. It is today. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s answers. already paired with Belfast. Belfast regularly covers the resilience and has the local knowledge that is necessary. Mike Penning: I thank my friend for his comments: That is why we took the decision to keep one of every we agree on most things, but occasionally disagree; pair open. I understand that it is sad for hon. Lady, but perhaps we will disagree a little bit today. Let me answer there will be coastguards working in the Clyde area, the hon. Gentleman’s four specific questions. although it will not be a co-ordination centre. In the original proposal, which we inherited from the Mr Charles Kennedy (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (LD): previous Administration, two MOCs were required, not Whilst welcoming the sensible concessions made, not least because the majority of the stations would have least with regard to the west coast, the Minches and the gone part time. They are no longer going part time; they northern waters—I have to say that the earlier suggestions are 24/7, so the resilience within the system, which is not flew in the face of all common sense—I ask the Minister there today, will give us the communications resilience whether he will none the less accept that there is a that we need. If we need to move into the unmanned considerable element of gamble here. Given the warnings MOC we will do so. We looked at this carefully and from the seafarers and the emergency services, who have found that in 99.9% of cases we would not have to do done this job successfully for generations, about what this, even if the MOC went down initially, because the might occur, will the Minister at least confirm from the other stations will pick it up, and we are moving towards Dispatch Box today that if circumstances merit it, he the Dover MOC. would be willing to reopen this entire recasting and go Pay is a real issue: £13,500 as a basic salary for back to the drawing board? someone working in the emergency services is a disgrace. I know that the shadow Minister looked at this carefully Mike Penning: I respect the right hon. Gentleman’s when he was in my position, which is why the original views, but we took this action because the original proposals were on his former desk and on the desk of proposals were flawed. They were not my proposals; the Minister before him and the one before that. We they were the last Government’s proposals. have done something about it so that we have pay, The point of introducing the resilience that does not conditions and promotion opportunities for the people currently exist is to end the scaremongering about safety. who serve so well. Safety standards are not good today, but they will be In the original proposals I inherited, coastguard staffing good from now on because of that resilience. In most of levels would have gone down to 244. Under the proposals the coastguard stations that I visited around the country, I have announced today, the staffing level will be 314. including stations in Scotland, I was told, “We know The shadow Minister will have to wait for the Secretary that we have to cut the number of stations to nine of State to make her announcement on search and or 10.” rescue helicopters. Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con):The I recognise that significant changes have been made Prime Minister told this House on 30 March: since the Government’s original proposals, but what “We want to make changes only if they improve coastguard work has been done to ensure that, notwithstanding the support that people in fishing communities and elsewhere get…If scale of the closures, local knowledge will be retained so that is not the case, we will obviously have to reconsider reforms”.— that lives can be safeguarded? [Official Report, 30 March 2011; Vol. 526, c. 336.] If, as many sea users at all levels from rear admirals to Mike Penning: I fully respect the Chairman of the professional yachtsmen believe, the trial of a new control Select Committee on Transport, whose report helped centre demonstrates the loss of local knowledge to be me to decide how to proceed. The point of keeping one 167 Coastguard Modernisation22 NOVEMBER 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 168 centre in a pair which regularly covers the topography in the plans announced last September—I understand of the other centre’s area is to retain the local knowledge that it is to be a part-time empty station in Dover. The about which so many of those who were consulted Aberdeen station, which was included in the original expressed concern. I know that there will be disappointment December proposals, is fully manned, and could act in some parts of the country, but the resilience to which immediately with a full staff complement in an emergency. I have referred is more important. We need a 21st-century What assurances can the Minister give about the security coastguard. of the system in such circumstances?

Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): My constituents Mike Penning: The Aberdeen station is not fully will be very disappointed that the new maritime operations manned as a MOC today. It is a co-ordination centre. centre will not be based at the Daedalus site. Can the Under the previous proposals, if we had taken out the Minister assure us that the hugely experienced coastguards second MOC there would have been 23 staff in Scotland, who will lose their jobs at Lee-on-Solent will be helped whereas 69 will be working for me at the co-ordination to find work at the new Fareham site? centres in Scotland. We considered carefully whether we would need a second MOC if we kept the twin stations Mike Penning: I thank my hon. Friend for that important open 24/7, and decided that, with the twin stations open question. When possible we need to retain the experience and a nationally resilient communications system, we that we have at the co-ordination centres, particularly did not need a full-time second MOC. the one at the Solent, and we have no intention of making compulsory redundancies there. There will be Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): more job offers at the new MOC, and I hope that as May I thank my hon. Friend for this difficult statement many people as possible transfer to it. and for the sensitive way in which he has approached these very difficult decisions? Can he confirm that he is, Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): I thank the Minister in effect, announcing the closure of the coastguard for letting me see his statement in advance, and for the centre at Walton-on-the-Naze today? Will he understand communication in which he has engaged with my hon. how much of a disappointment that is to local people, Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil). and to me and my hon. Friend the Member for Clacton We now know that two out of five Scottish coastguard (Mr Carswell), who have made representations to him stations will close, and that we have only an interim on this matter? How can we ensure that the local contract on the emergency tugs. The Government have knowledge of the locally employed people there is somehow announced the scrapping of the entire fleet of fixed-wing included in the new arrangements, not least in respect of long-range search and rescue aircraft, and the future of their job opportunities, even if they wish to continue to the air rescue co-ordination centre at Kinloss is still live locally? uncertain. Is this not the time to devolve those powers to the Scottish Parliament so that they can be taken Mike Penning: My hon. Friend knows that I have seriously? listened very carefully to the consultation, and to delegations from across the House and across the country. Yes, his Mike Penning: No. local station will close, but the station that covers it on a regular basis will stay open, the local knowledge will Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): still be there and, wherever possible, those staff will be I thank the Minister for his statement, and pay tribute transferred to the new stations. to the great personal effort that I know he has put into visiting every affected coastguard station to ensure that Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind): I warmly welcome consultation was both open-ended and reasoned. Can the confirmation in today’s statement that Northern he none the less reassure me that when one of a pair of Ireland’s only coastguard centre will be remaining open co-ordination centres closes, there will be a structure in in Bangor in my constituency. I am very pleased to put place to ensure that local knowledge is transferred on the record the fact that the Minister listened very between staff and we do not see a sudden cliff-edge carefully to all the political voices raised right across the changeover? board in Northern Ireland in support of retaining that coastguard centre. Before he agrees to come back to Mike Penning: The closures are planned for March Bangor at my invitation—we would love to have him 2015, so there will be no cliff edge. I repeat that, having back, with the good news—will he kindly confirm that studied the results of the consultation extremely carefully, he has sought and obtained reassurances from the Irish we decided to adopt the pair-based system because the Government about the continued availability of Irish current local knowledge of the topography would be helicopters, deployed from Sligo and paid for by the retained. When I visited Swansea—and I expect that a Irish Government, to assist the Northern Ireland coastguard Swansea Member will ask a question shortly—the station so ably, as they have done in the past? was closed while I was meeting the staff, and Milford Haven took over the local knowledge. That sort of Mike Penning: I thank the hon. Lady for her kind thing is happening regularly, and it will introduce more comments. It appears that I was, with my proposals, the resilience to the system. only politician in many years to manage to unite all the political parties in Northern Ireland. To be fair, I looked Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab): I welcome very carefully at where the centre should be; Belfast the Minister’s recognition of the unique position of the covered the Clyde, the Clyde covered Belfast and the Aberdeen station and its links with the oil and gas decision to keep the centre in Belfast was taken for industry. However, although he has accepted that there resilience purposes. I have now met two Transport needs to be a back-up MOC—which was not included Secretaries from the Republic of Ireland and I understand 169 Coastguard Modernisation22 NOVEMBER 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 170

[Mike Penning] the maritime operations centre at a significant saving. He said in answer to an earlier question that he was not that they have no plans to remove the excellent service looking at new plans in the second consultation, but they give us. We will share that service as our new search would it not have been a good idea for the Government and rescue helicopter is introduced too. to have done so and to have considered the good ideas coming forward from staff, such as those proposed at Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): Does Crosby? my hon. Friend understand the degree of disappointment that there will be in my constituency that the opportunity Mike Penning: On the hon. Gentleman’s second point, of the second consultation has not been taken to provide the consultation was quite specific about whether we a reprieve for the station at Fife Ness? Furthermore, is should have one MOC or two MOCs. The second he aware that fishermen, yachtsmen and all the seafarers proposal was for a MOC in Aberdeen and I needed to who use the firth of Forth believe that his decision is say that we were not going to do that if we were to have profoundly mistaken? the money to keep the other stations open and that we would have the resilience without it. Even though the Mike Penning: I apologise to my right hon. and facilities at Swansea are good, they are nothing compared learned Friend if I have not been able to make the with the fire control centre I have taken over in Fareham, announcement that he wanted me to make today, but and I invite any hon. Members to visit that facility. The this consultation was not about Fife—that matter was communications and build quality are second-to-none. dealt with in the first consultation and it was finished As I have said, I could never have afforded to build it so when the previous Secretary of State made his statements the deal that I have done with the Secretary of State to this House. Although there are concerns, our current is absolutely brilliant. As the hon. Gentleman knows, system has a national emergency service without any when I was at Crosby—on my very first visit—the national resilience. That cannot be acceptable and I was full-time coastguards told me that having the existing not willing to sit, as the Minister, and let that carry on. 18 centres was wrong and they suggested there should Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Will the Minister tell us be nine. I am sorry that Crosby is not one of them. exactly how much money he will be saving by closing Swansea coastguard station, given that there will be a Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con): May I continued presence at that building? How does that congratulate my hon. Friend on producing a well-balanced compare with the money he would have saved had he package under difficult circumstances? In particular, I chosen to close the centre at Milford Haven instead? welcome the promises on reward for our underpaid coastguards. I join him, too, in welcoming the huge Mike Penning: As I said in my statement, there is contribution made by volunteers, including Whitstable almost no difference in the cost savings—the cost is in RNLI. When he makes proposals on search and rescue staff. May I say to the hon. Lady that under the proposals helicopters, will he look closely at the hybrid arrangements that I inherited only one out of the three centres in in north America, through which the armed forces Wales would have stayed open and there would have reserves offer a very cost-effective approach? been 10 staff in Wales, whereas there are 46 with my announcement today? Mike Penning: Some of what my hon. Friend has just asked for is above my pay grade and even comes under a Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con): I know that the completely different Department. The Secretary of State Minister will appreciate, because we have sent many is sitting next to me and I am sure that she has heard the submissions to him that Portland coastguard should message loud and clear. remain open, how devastated my constituents are that May I also reiterate—I hope I mentioned it in my this decision has been made. Will he reassure me and statement—my complete admiration for the volunteers, my constituents that if the trial at Fareham does not whether they are in the volunteer lifeboats of the RNLI meet expectations, reopening the Portland centre will be or the 3,500 plus volunteers who go out on a regular at the top of the agenda? basis and put their lives at risk for us? Mike Penning: I thank my hon. Friend for reiterating the importance to his constituents of Portland. However, Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab): It will come as I am sure that he would join me in saying that the no surprise to the Minister that, as the Member for front-line emergency personnel—the volunteers—are Inverclyde, where the Clyde coastguard is situated, I am the most important people here and their resilience and deeply disappointed with today’s announcement, which ability to do their job is the most important thing. We comes on the back of 800 new engagements in the will be able to enhance their training and enhance the consultation process, tens of thousands of signatures pay in our coastguard co-ordination centres. Not in a sent to the Prime Minister in support of retaining the million years could I have been able to afford to build Clyde coastguard and numerous letters from organisations the facility in Fareham. It was folly of the previous to the Minister. How does the Minister intend to assure Government to do so and I will utilise that building to people on the west coast of Scotland that safety is its best abilities. paramount and that the loss of the Clyde coastguard station will not mean that the area off the coast of the Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): I remind the west of Scotland will be a no-shipping zone? Minister that the two issues that will anger people about the decision on Crosby are those to do with local Mike Penning: I know that it is difficult, but hon. knowledge of the north-west coast of England and the Members should be careful about the emotive language west of Scotland, which will now be lost, and those to that they use. When the Clyde co-ordination centre is do with the proposal put forward by the staff to host not operational for whatever reason, its pair does the 171 Coastguard Modernisation22 NOVEMBER 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 172 job on a regular basis. That happens and it happens alongside the coastguards developing the new processes around the country. That was why we went to this and procedures in the MOCs so that we will truly have system and that was part of the submission. If the hon. the resilient and first-class service that I know he aspires Gentleman is disappointed by what I have said today, I to achieve? must say to him that the previous Government’s proposals, which were on my desk when I arrived, were 10 times Mike Penning: A shocking thing that I found when I worse. took over this job and visited co-ordination centres around the country was the complete lack of co-ordination. Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD): There will be The pairs were linked but apart from that there was no great disappointment across south Devon at the national resilience at all. The whole point of doing this announcement of the closure of the Brixham control is to give us a 21st-century emergency service with that centre. I know that the hon. Member for Totnes level of communication and skills. Training will be (Dr Wollaston), if she were able to be in the Chamber paramount. That will be done not only in the MOCs today, would share my concern. Can the Minister guarantee but across the co-ordination centres because they will that there will continue to be a coastguard presence, if be picking up calls from other areas just as the MOCs not the control centre, in the Torbay area? Will he will be. consider the possibility of bringing other coastguard activities, such as the training of control centre and Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): Will rescue staff and even volunteers, into the Torbay area to the Minister clarify the position of the Clyde station build on the reputation that the coastguard service has given that the lease of the premises is coming to an end built up over decades? at the end of next year? Is that when it will close? This is Mike Penning: There is acceptance that the quality of of great concern given that the maritime operations Her Majesty’s coastguard is world-renowned. I was at centre will not be in place then, so there will be no the International Maritime Organisation’s assembly national resilience, and that Belfast is a far smaller yesterday morning and the leader of the American station than the Clyde station at the moment. Does he coastguard was talking to me about that particular understand the massive concern that we are leading to a point. The proposals we have finished with today will situation in which there will be very little cover on the allow us to have more money for full-time staff to train Clyde and far fewer resources than now? the volunteers, more equipment and a professional career and pay structure that we would all be happy with, Mike Penning: It will not be the case that there will be rather than the structure we have today. little cover on the Clyde because that station is paired and the pairing will cover it no matter what. That Martin Caton (Gower) (Lab): Surely, the most perverse happens today and has been the case for many years. aspect of today’s statement is the proposed closure of There is no drawback at all to the front-line emergency Swansea. What justification do the Government give services carrying out the rescues. Indeed, the exact for this? They want to expand the DFT’s economic opposite is the case—I am enhancing them, I am going footprint in west Wales. What is the impact of that? to have more paid staff training them and there will be Perhaps the Minister could explain why a so-called more safety and more cover. I am very aware that the employment measure will take jobs away from an area lease on the station is running out, which is why I said in of higher unemployment to protect them in an area of my statement that we will keep a strong footprint in the lower unemployment. And how on earth can he justify Clyde area—but it will not be at the existing station. leaving the Bristol channel, which is one of the most dangerous waters around our country, without a 24-hour Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con): I am pleased that coastguard station? the Minister anticipates the operations centre at Fareham Mike Penning: On the first of the two substantive coming on line quickly. Will he give some indication of points that the hon. Gentleman raises, the Department when he anticipates that happening and how long the and the Secretary of State are responsible for in excess transitional period might be? of 5,000 DFT staff in the Swansea area. The economic effect on the small number of staff at Milford Haven is Mike Penning: We already have the keys to the operations disproportionately beneficial to them compared with centre in Fareham and we have been showing staff what would be the case at Swansea. That is what we around. I have not formally signed a contract yet, but I have said both in the statement and all the way through. hope to do so in the next few weeks. On the second point, when I was at Swansea attending a meeting with the staff, the station was switched off and Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): May I associate myself Milford Haven was covering the very dangerous areas with the comments of the hon. Member for North to which the hon. Gentleman refers. If that had not Down (Lady Hermon) complimenting the Minister on been safe, I am sure the coastguard would not have his accessibility during this exercise? Will he assure us turned the station off. that the reduced number of MOCs, with their extended geographic catchments, will give the same quality and Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): I very level of support as they previously have to our voluntary much welcome the reassurance that the Minister gave to search and rescue services, which provide such a strong my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall service on our inland waterways? (Sheryll Murray) that the safety of people on our seas will be paramount in all his considerations as the proposals Mike Penning: I am very aware of the unique are developed. Will he give me further reassurance that geographical situation and size of Northern Ireland’s the front-line coastguards at the co-ordination centres inland waterways. That is one of the reasons why I gave that will remain will be given the opportunity to work careful consideration to the question of whether it 173 Coastguard Modernisation22 NOVEMBER 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 174

[Mike Penning] for all the remaining stations to be open 24/7. That is why they will all be operational 24 hours, not just with should be Belfast or Liverpool, and why we kept Belfast. daylight manning. The other reason was the unique situation of a border with another EU member state. Also, Belfast has shown Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): time and again its ability to cover for the Clyde so that Pursuant to the question from my hon. Friend the the pairing system works. Member for St Helens North (Mr Watts), and given the diversity of risks in Liverpool bay, ranging from the myriad Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): I commend the Minister estuaries to complex offshore facilities, is the Minister for the comprehensive and sympathetic way in which he satisfied that the co-ordination facilities in the Liverpool has gone about his further consultation. I acknowledge bay area will be adequate? I share his view about that one of the paired stations will remain open on a national resilience. Will he look very carefully to make 24/7 basis, but I am concerned that on the east coast it is sure that what he is delivering meets what he says? not the one at Yarmouth, but the one on Humberside. My concern focuses on the broads and the myriad Mike Penning: As an ex-firefighter, I would never in a internal waterways. Concern has been expressed to me million years propose something that I did not feel by the Broads Authority and the Norfolk and Suffolk would have the resilience, the technology, the skills and Boating Association that local knowledge cannot be the local topography to allow it to take place. The provided from the Humberside. Will my hon. Friend volunteers in the Liverpool area, particular in the area consider a station operated on a seasonal basis, much that I visited, have unbelievable skills, which will be the same as for the Thames, to deal with that area? enhanced, not hindered.

Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): Although Mike Penning: I fully understand my hon. Friend’s there will be huge disappointment in Great Yarmouth concerns. If I went down that avenue, I would open up a at the loss of our coastguard station, we note the Pandora’s box and my Secretary of State would shoot Minister’s earlier comments about the job opportunities, me. I have holidayed nearly every year for the past the local knowledge and the resilience that could be 30 years on the Norfolk broads, especially across Breydon improved with the Humber pair being kept. We are water. I understand the concerns, but I think the cover grateful for his recent visit to Great Yarmouth to visit will be resilient enough. I hope people from Yarmouth the Caister independent lifeboat. Will he confirm that transfer to the Humber. The new career and pay structures the Maritime and Coastguard Agency will continue to will make it much more worth while than was ever the work as closely with independent lifeboats such as those case in the past, but I understand my hon. Friend’s at Caister and Hemsby as it does with the excellent concerns. Royal National Lifeboat Institution?

Mr Speaker: We are always interested to hear of the Mike Penning: One of the great things about having Minister’s holiday arrangements, as well as his fear of the RNLI is that it is a brand known worldwide and a the death penalty. fantastic facility. However, little is known in this country about the volunteer lifeboats. There are huge numbers, Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): The Minister including the one that I visited and went out to sea on at assured the House that there would be some Liverpool- Caister recently, where the crew desperately tried to based facility. Will he clarify whether there will be any make me seasick, unsuccessfully. I can assure the House people in that facility who will be able to rescue anyone? that not only will the facility be as good as it is now, but it will be better. Mike Penning: The rescue facilities in the Liverpool area will be enhanced. We will utilise the buildings that Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): I we have so that we do not rent new buildings for the am sure that the Minister will recognise the bitter sake of it. We will have more trainers, more enhanced disappointment of those in my locality who campaigned staff, and the volunteers will provide a much better so hard to retain both the Liverpool and Clyde facilities, service for the public to rely on. which serve 200 miles of coastline. The Scottish Government Transport Minister failed to recognise the significance of Liverpool to the Solway coast, but did the Secretary Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): Although of State for Scotland and the Under-Secretary of State my Milton Keynes South constituency is probably as make any representations to him about retaining the far from any part of the UK coastline as it is possible Clyde facility? to be, I take a close interest in these matters as a member of the Transport Committee. I congratulate Mike Penning: The Scotland Office was fully informed the Minister on balancing so many competing priorities of the proposal. I phoned the Minister yesterday to tell and representations so objectively and fairly, but can he him, and I did the same for the Wales Office. This is a confirm to me that he is still reversing a key flaw in the national emergency service, so the House and the original proposals, which was for only daylight operations Government are fully responsible for it. I understand at some stations? the concerns, but we must reiterate that at the moment we do not have a national resilience service. If two of Mike Penning: That is one of the key aspects that we these pairs go down, there is no way that we can provide examined to see where resilience would come from. As the cover necessary in a 21st century service. This we looked at the possibility of not having a second should have been done years ago, as I know my hon. full-time MOC, the only way to provide resilience was Friend will admit. 175 Coastguard Modernisation22 NOVEMBER 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 176

Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): Each year, the coastal huge cost to the taxpayer, and it is a real shame that I waters have more and more incidents. Will my hon. cannot use all the buildings around the country and can Friend assure me that the surveillance and subsequent only use the one. safety of our coastal waters will be maintained under the new proposals? Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): The Minister in his statement when considering the pros and Mike Penning: I am sure that my hon. Friend is aware cons of Milford Haven and Swansea said that “there that these days in a co-ordination centre binoculars are are no operational reasons for choosing one of these not the usual piece of equipment used to survey what is sites rather than the other”, and that the building in going on at sea. The electronic equipment that we use is Swansea will remain operational. He said that Swansea highly technical and works very well. In times of high was switched off in a planned way to enable Milford need, we will be able to move that around the network Haven to take over, but will he accept that on a number so that other less important jobs that are already flowing of occasions Milford Haven has closed down in an through can be taken on by other stations or the MOC unplanned way, that Swansea is the second busiest while new emergencies that are coming on board, with coastguard, that the protest involved hundreds of thousands the local knowledge that is so desperately needed, can of people compared with a much smaller protest from be facilitated. Milford Haven, and that people locally will rightly see this as a cynical political, rather than operational, move that will affect the risk to Cardiff, Newport, Swansea Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): May I join the and Devon? Minister and the shadow Minister in paying tribute to the search and rescue family, including volunteers of coastguard services, for the excellent work that they Mike Penning: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s do in protecting our coastline and coastal waters? May disappointment. I went to Swansea and, after the driver I also thank the Minister for reiterating the strategic drove through the picket, went back to speak with importance of Holyhead and invite him to visit it, everyone on the picket line as well as all the staff. I fully because he did not have a chance to do so during the admit that there was a planned shutdown during my consultation period? Will he assure the House that there visit, just as there was a planned shutdown while the will be constructive dialogue between management and refurbishment took place at Swansea, when Milford the work force, including the unions, on this modernisation covered it for weeks and weeks. I am sorry that he was programme, so that they are fully involved and their not fully informed about the number of closures that ideas and local skills are used to make up this resilience took place in the past. He is absolutely right that that he talks about? Will he also assure the House that sometimes stations go down without warning, which is people will be told of redundancy and of any displacement why we need a national resilience system, which we do that there will throughout the United Kingdom in not have today. That is the most important thing. plenty of time? Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): The Minister specifically mentioned the importance of the links between Mike Penning: I have been working with the Public the gas and oil sectors in Aberdeen. He will be aware and Commercial Services union since day one when I that that is equally important in the Humber, an area became the Minister. I met its representatives very early where there is likely to be a rapid expansion in the on. They have been desperate for this issue to be resolved energy sector in coming years. Will he assure me that he once and for all. They know the service needs to be is fully satisfied that the expansion will be fully catered modernised and that there had to be closures. They for and that it will be kept under regular review? knew that all the way through, and I have discussed that with them fully. They were part of the group that Mike Penning: My hon. Friend raises an important looked at the proposals and the consultation documents point. I think that he would accept that there is a that came in. We will work closely with the unions and structural difference between the oil and gas sector and the non-unionised members of staff, so that we ensure offshore wind. We are working much more closely with that whatever happens they know. I do not think that the Department of Energy and Climate Change and the there will be any redundancies in Holyhead, but, overall, Crown Estate, which owns the seabed, than ever before. we will do our level best to make sure that it is natural Under the previous Administration decisions were made wastage and that we keep the skills within the service. and the Department for Transport was then told much later. We will work together closely and address any Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): I welcome the risks as needed. use of the vacant fire control centre at Fareham. It gives us a chance to recoup some of the half a billion spent Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Minister on the fire control centres scrapped last year and described for his statement and associate myself with the kind by the Public Accounts Committee as flawed from the comments of the hon. Members for North Down (Lady outset. Will the Minister assure me that the coastguard Hermon) and for Foyle (Mark Durkan). The Minister modernisation process will not suffer the same problems came over to Northern Ireland, listened and clearly that led to the disaster with the fire control centres? In delivered, and we are thankful that the Northern Ireland particular, how will the link between the maritime operations coastguard will be part of the strategy for the whole of centre and the coastguard stations work in practice? the United Kingdom. He indicated that the Northern Ireland coastguard will be responsible not only for Mike Penning: Rather than just using the radio, the Northern Ireland, but for the Clyde. What staff and new centre has unbelievable communication. The state- resources will be made available to the Northern Ireland of-the-art technology has been put into that building at coastguard to deliver a full and better service? 177 Coastguard Modernisation 22 NOVEMBER 2011 178

Mike Penning: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will Road Safety (No. 2) be aware that the Bangor co-ordination centre already Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order covers the Clyde on a regular basis. We will ensure that No. 23) it is fully staffed, that staff have the right pay and conditions, which we will negotiate with the trade unions and those who are not in the trade unions and—I 4.27 pm reiterate—that we have the sort of resilience that the Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): I beg to move, service deserves. That leave be given to bring in a Bill to make provision to reduce the permitted blood alcohol level for drivers from 80 mg per 100 ml of blood to 50 mg; to empower the police to suspend an individual’s driving licence pending assessment of his or her suitability to drive; and for connected purposes. Last Sunday was the world day of remembrance for road traffic victims, which was established in 1993 by the UK-based charity RoadPeace and adopted by the United Nations in 2005 as a response to road crash victims’ need for public recognition. My Bill is dedicated to the memory of two teenage girls who lived in my constituency and whose lives were cruelly taken by the selfish attitude of two drivers in separate incidents almost three years apart. Although the circumstances of each death were different, the outcome was the same for both families: the loss of a much-loved daughter who had her life ahead of her and all that that entailed. Indeed, given current average life expectancy, perhaps 65 years of life were stolen from them—65 Christmases and 65 birthdays. Their life expectations, and possibly marriage and children, were destroyed in seconds because of irresponsible drivers. Only those who have lost a child, particularly in tragic circumstances, can truly appreciate the enormity of such a loss. I therefore empathise with the parents and admire all they are doing in memory of their respective daughters to campaign to make our roads safer so that other families do not suffer the grief that they continue to experience. The two girls, 14-year-old Jordan Bell and 16-year-old Cassie McCord, lived in the same part of Colchester, little more than a mile apart and with the former ground of Colchester United football club on Layer road midway between their two homes, but to the best of my knowledge they did not know each other. Jordan was a pupil at Alderman Blaxill secondary school and Cassie was a student at Colchester sixth-form college. Had there been a lower drink-drive limit in March 2008, the driver who killed Jordan might not have ventured on to the road. He was exceeding the 30 mph speed limit when he struck Jordan as she sought to use a central island refuge on Layer road. Tests revealed that he had been drinking, but he was just 2 mg under the drink-drive limit—78 mg to 100 ml of blood—when he was breathalysed some time after the incident. For taking Jordan’s life, he was fined for careless driving and speeding. I will return to this incident later to describe the campaigning by her parents, Steve and Michelle Bell, to get the drink-drive limit reduced to 50 mg, in line with most of Europe. Cassie McCord was killed in February by a driver who should never have been on the road. Police were called to a supermarket petrol forecourt where an elderly motorist had caused concern. He was not on the public highway, but in the grounds of the supermarket. They drove his car home, informed him that they would be reporting him to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency because of their concerns about his ability to drive, and they advised him not to drive again. That was on a 179 Road Safety (No. 2)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Road Safety (No. 2) 180

Friday. On the Monday morning, before the DVLA Last week, a tree was planted in Cassie’s memory at could act and ignoring the police advice, the 87-year-old Colchester sixth-form college where she was studying. driver ventured out on to busy roads and into Colchester Her friends have launched a campaign called “Cassie’s town centre, where he mounted the pavement and killed Law”, backed by the Essex County Standard, and a Cassie, who was walking with friends to Colchester petition form can be obtained by clicking on the link to sixth-form college. “Cassie’s Law” at essexcountystandard.co.uk. Cassie’s mother is now campaigning to give police the Mrs McCord said last week: powers—subject to safeguards, obviously—to suspend “Nearly everyone we have spoken to about the petition has a driver’s licence with immediate effect for, say, 72 hours been supportive. If the Police had been able to take the driver’s if they have major concerns about the driver’s ability to licence away, Cassie would still be here.” function. That would give the DVLA time to institute Mrs McCord would like doctors to use their discretion the more formal process it currently operates. Such to write to the DVLA if they feel that a patient is unfit police action would, I suggest, require the approval of to drive, and she would also like drivers aged 70 and an officer of senior rank, such as superintendent or above. above to be medically assessed to ensure that their Had such a power existed earlier this year, the police reactions are sufficient to allow them to drive safely. could have suspended the driving licence of the 87-year-old I never use the term “road accident”, because in most motorist, and that I think would have deterred him from instances what occurs is the result of driver failure of taking his car back on the road where he killed Cassie some sort. As a member of the Institute of Advanced McCord. There is a sad postscript. The driver has since Motorists, I believe that it would be in everyone’s interests died, and no charges were ever brought against him. if every driver were required to take refresher driving There appears to be a loophole in the law. Police have courses every few years, because it is clear that some the power to impound a vehicle that is in an unsafe people think that, having passed the driving test, they condition, and they can arrest someone for being under the are competent to drive for life. We all know that that is influence of drink or drugs, but seemingly they do not not true. There is some appalling driving, of which have the power to prevent a driver, whom they consider tailgating, speeding and overtaking in the nearside lane to be unfit on health grounds, from continuing to drive. are some of the most worrying examples. The campaigns by the grieving parents, Mr and Mrs Bell Successive Governments are to be applauded for past and Mrs McCord, have been brilliantly supported by actions, which last year saw the smallest number of the award-winning local newspaper, the Essex County people killed on our roads since records began 85 years Standard, with the reports of chief reporter, Wendy ago. Given that the number of vehicles in the UK is at a Brading, showing what a campaigning newspaper can record high, that comparison is an even greater achievement do on behalf of the community that it serves. than just the bare figures show. The campaign by Mr and Mrs Bell—Mr Bell is a Britain’s roads are the safest in Europe. Worryingly, member of Her Majesty’s armed forces, serving with however, the number of deaths on our roads has started 16 Air Assault Brigade based at Colchester garrison—is to increase in recent months, so the coalition Government one that led the parents to have a personal meeting with should redouble their efforts to reduce them. The aim former road safety Minister Mr Paul Clark. I accompanied should be zero deaths—an impossible dream, I recognise— them to his office at the Department for Transport’s but as every death is an individual tragedy we should Great Minster house. It was a rather moving occasion, strive to avoid every death. Loss of life in a road crash is and I cannot thank Mr Clark enough for the way in the only form of involuntary sudden death that is which matters were handled. His warmth and sincerity somehow considered as just one of those things. Well, meant a lot to my constituents. that is not an attitude a responsible Government should We left buoyed by what had transpired, and with a take. degree of confidence that the drink-drive limit would be We should not be creating situations where it is reduced. That was certainly our belief, given what occurred known that actions will inevitably lead to more crashes, at our meeting with the then road safety Minister. more injuries and more deaths. Although this is not Indeed, the North report, published after our meeting part of my Bill, I suggest to Transport Ministers that if with the Minister, recommended a reduction in the they raise the speed limit on the motorways, allow drink-drive limit as part of wide-ranging reforms to the moving traffic on to motorway hard shoulders and driving laws. reduce the frequency of MOT vehicle inspections, they It is therefore with considerable annoyance and disbelief do so in the full knowledge that they will be responsible that I note how the incoming coalition Government for more crashes, more injuries, and more deaths. I ignored the North report recommendation and decided would not want that on my conscience. to leave the drink-drive limit unchanged. My Bill aims I have, through a written parliamentary question, to reinstate what the North report recommended. I am invited the new Secretary of State for Transport, who I pleased to say that in September it was announced that am pleased is in her place, to visit a hospital accident the Parliament in Northern Ireland was looking to and emergency department to discuss with the medical lower the drink-drive limit to 50 mg. I suggest that we team there the consequences of dealing with people do the same in the rest of the United Kingdom. injured on our roads. I did that in the wake of suggestions Let me tell the House what Mrs Bell said only last to raise the motorway speed limit to 80 mph. week about the loss of her daughter: Road safety has interested me for nearly 50 years. As “Every day is a struggle. It is a constant reminder. You try to stay positive, but you are always thinking of the things Jordan will a trainee reporter, I used to cover inquests at a time miss out on. She missed her prom and the chance to go to when road deaths were more common than they are university and getting married and having a family. That has been today. I simply could not accept that they were accidents— taken away from us.” all could and should have been avoided. For many 181 Road Safety (No. 2) 22 NOVEMBER 2011 182 [Bob Russell] Opposition Day years, I was chairman of the all-party parliamentary group on road safety. On 19 December 2000, I had an [12TH ALLOTTED DAY –SECOND PART (HALF DAY)] Adjournment debate entitled “Road Crashes”, reported in Hansard from column 333. I am proud to say that Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments when I was a borough councillor in Colchester, I pioneered the first traffic-calming scheme in the town and the first 20 mph speed limit in Essex. All people who hold 4.38 pm elected office have a duty to make our roads safer. Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): I beg to I return to the substance of my Bill. I would like to move, quote what Mrs Wendy Brading, who is trusted by both That this House is concerned about pressures on pensioner families, of the Essex County Standard told me yesterday: households this winter with high and rising fuel prices; notes that the Winter Fuel Payment will be £50 lower in the winter of 2011-12 “The point both mothers make is that the drivers in each case than in each of the last three years for a pensioner aged 60 or over had made a selfish choice. One chose to drive while 2 mgs under and £100 lower for those pensioners aged 80 or over; and calls on the drink-drive limit, the other despite advice from the Police. the Government to review the impact of its decisions on Winter Both acted selfishly and two girls died as a result. This is what Fuel Payments and VAT, and to announce in the Chancellor’s they cannot forgive and what has spurred them on, to ensure Autumn Statement urgent steps to ease the burden on pensioner other families do not go through what they have due to someone’s households. selfishness.” In conclusion, my Bill calls for the lowering of the It is a pleasure to move the motion standing in my drink-drive limit and for the introduction of measures name and the names of my right hon. and hon. colleagues. for the immediate suspension of the licences of those it This motion is about a life and death issue. Fuel poverty is clear have health issues. Such measures will assist in and the effects of cold winter weather on the elderly are saving the lives of innocent people, such as Jordan Bell a lethal combination. Only today, the Office for National and Cassie McCord, who were two lovely teenagers Statistics has published figures for cold-related deaths cruelly robbed of their lives. for England and Wales. That report shows that in 2010-11 there were some 25,700 excess winter deaths Question put and agreed to. among old people in England and Wales, which is Ordered, roughly the same number as last year. However, last That Bob Russell, Mr David Amess, Mr Mike Hancock, year’s figure represented a big increase on the previous Kelvin Hopkins, Dr Julian Huppert, Andrew Miller, year. More people are dying as a result of living in a Lisa Nandy, Jim Shannon and Andrew Stephenson cold house in the United Kingdom than are dying in present the Bill, road traffic accidents each year. Bob Russell accordingly presented the Bill. The figure for excess winter deaths is defined by the Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Office for National Statistics as the difference between Friday 30 March 2012, and to be printed (Bill 251). the number of deaths during the four winter months and the average number of deaths during the preceding autumn and the following summer. In the Conservative party manifesto for the 2010 election, these figures were described as “a national disgrace”, and that is absolutely the correct description. This is nothing short of a national catastrophe that affects every region of the United Kingdom. The motion before the House therefore calls for the Chancellor to take “urgent steps to ease the burden on pensioner households” right across the United Kingdom. I want to refer particularly to the situation in our own area of Northern Ireland as an example of the dire circumstances facing many of our senior citizens living in cold houses.

Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): I shall certainly support the right hon. Gentleman in the Lobby tonight. Surely, however, the problem is poor pensioner households. The difficulty with the winter fuel allowance is that everybody over 60 or 65 gets it, irrespective of their means, and as a result it has become a generalised payment that helps the rich but does not give enough to the poor.

Mr Dodds: I understand that argument entirely. Indeed, the Select Committee on Energy and Climate Change pointed to it in its report back in 2010, and I will come on to deal with the targeting of resources and tackling fuel poverty. As for cold weather payments, there is clear evidence that many pensioners do not claim all the 183 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 184 benefits to which they are entitled. The benefit of having The winter fuel payment was introduced in January a universal system is that it reaches all those who need 1998 as a tax-free annual payment. Its purpose was and it. I will deal with the issue that the right hon. Gentleman is to alleviate fuel poverty by giving specific help to has highlighted in more detail later. encourage older people to spend more on heating during the winter. What is happening this year? For the past Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) three years, the winter fuel payment has been £250 for (LD): In some of the trials aimed at trying to reduce those aged 60 and over, and £400 for those aged 80 and fuel poverty in other parts of the United Kingdom, over. Despite spiralling fuel prices—we had a debate there has been a conscious drive to improve benefit only a couple of weeks ago in this House on the crisis in take-up, and that has made a huge difference to people’s the energy sector—and despite the extremely cold recent income, far more than the winter fuel payment would winters and the forecasts of a very cold winter to come, make. in 2011-12 the payment for pensioners aged 60 and over has been reduced by 20% to £200, and the payment for Mr Dodds: It is a combination of all these factors. those aged 80 and over has been cut by a quarter to The winter fuel payment does play an important role, as £300. That does not affect just a small group of people; the Government and the Minister have acknowledged. it affects more than 9 million households and about The Government made it very clear in the coalition 13 million people throughout the United Kingdom. agreement that they would maintain the payment. The Some 12.7 million of those people are in Great Britain hon. Gentleman is right to say that benefit take-up is and some 317,000 are in Northern Ireland. extremely important, and we should all be doing more As a result of the changes, the expenditure on winter to encourage it. Back in Northern Ireland, the Executive fuel payments will fall from approximately £2.75 billion have also taken steps to try to encourage benefit take-up. in 2010-11 to some £2.136 billion in 2011-12. That is a The winter fuel payment plays an important role in substantial monetary saving for the Treasury, but at tackling this issue. what cost? That is the question that many people are asking. People in charities or third sector organisations Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): Does the right hon. Gentleman who deal with older people’s issues are making it clear support the scheme that was proposed initially by Somerset that they fear that this cut, which directly hits the Community Foundation whereby the winter fuel payment, pockets and incomes of pensioner households throughout because it is a universal allowance, could be distributed the United Kingdom, will result in more illness, more through community foundations, with the assistance of disease and more deaths. the Department for Work and Pensions, so that people who are less fortunate and less able to heat their homes Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): The could take some or all of the winter fuel payment that is right hon. Gentleman is making a very moving case. I given by those who are a little wealthier ? am sure that there is not anybody in this Parliament who is not concerned about excess winter deaths and Mr Dodds: There has been a debate on that very issue this nation’s terrible legacy of not tackling fuel poverty over the past few days. I commend those who decide among the poorest and most vulnerable. In his analysis that because they do not need the winter fuel payment for this debate, has he looked at the wide range of other themselves, they wish to distribute it to those more in measures that the Government have put in place to need. I welcome the initiative that the hon. Lady mentions. tackle the issue this winter and to make more lasting, wholesale changes in winters to come? Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP) rose— Mr Dodds: Interventions have an uncanny knack of Mr Dodds: Let me press ahead and make a little happening at the precise moment when one is coming progress, and I will take more interventions in a short on to deal with the very issue that they raise. I will deal while. with the issue that the hon. Lady has raised. Of course I want to refer to the situation in Northern Ireland. there are other measures aimed at dealing with fuel Last winter, we had the coldest December in 100 years. poverty and coldness-related illness among elderly people. In 2009-10, there were almost 1,000 excess winter deaths, There are the cold weather payments, to which I referred, 80% of which were of people aged 65 or over. On which some may argue are more specifically targeted. I average, we get 910 such deaths per year, and that figure will come on to that in a moment. compares with 590 in 2001-02, so there has been a There is also the warm home discount. Recently, the massive increase over that period. We have to understand Northern Ireland Assembly unanimously passed an that in addition to the stark figures on mortalities, for appeal to the Government to think again on this issue, every death from cold there are eight hospital admissions and when the Minister replied he referred to, among and more than 100 visits to general practitioners and other things, the warm home discount scheme. However, health centres. This is suffering on a vast scale. the scheme applies only in Great Britain, because the The recent interim report from the Government’s legislation did not apply to Northern Ireland. Half a independent review of fuel poverty, conducted by John million pensioners benefit from that scheme in Great Hills, states: Britain, but pensioners in Northern Ireland do not. I “Living in cold homes has a series of effects on illness and am sure that the Minister will address that point. mental health.” There are also other measures. On the practical health I will not go into all the repercussions of cold weather side, there is the flu vaccination scheme. Northern Ireland and of living in cold and damp housing on people’s has its own warm homes scheme, which I am glad to say mental and physical health. The interim report outlines was introduced under devolution by a Democratic Unionist those very clearly. party Minister. It has helped 80,000 households and has 185 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 186

[Mr Dodds] allowance, and that it is therefore the right thing to do. Frankly, that is not good enough. I leave it to the received widespread support in Northern Ireland. Northern Opposition to outline what their position was. Ireland also has a boiler replacement scheme and the The Government have decided to maintain health social protection fund, which the Executive have brought spending at a certain level, saying that it needs to be forward. I understand that discussions are under way to ring-fenced. They have said that international aid spending address the specific issue of fuel poverty and the elderly needs to be protected, and that we needed to spend in Northern Ireland. So yes, there are a range of measures, money to intervene in Libya. I have no difficulty with and we need to keep investing in such things as energy any of those things—I support them—but now the efficiency and home insulation to prevent fuel poverty Government say that it is right to cut payments to our in the long term. senior citizens, at a time when they are suffering from extreme cold and high and rising energy prices, because Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) (Con): that was what the previous Government had planned. Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? That is a shabby argument, and not one that bears any kind of scrutiny. The Government should stand on Mr Dodds: In a moment. their own two feet, argue their case for themselves and However, I say to the hon. Member for Truro and justify it to the House and the country. Falmouth (Sarah Newton) and the House that those I want to pay tribute to groups such as Age NI for other measures do not mean that we can cut the winter their work in Northern Ireland, and to Age Sector fuel payment to such a massive extent. It goes directly Platform, which has been very busy in recent months to our senior citizens and is an important tool. It is not running a significant campaign called Fight the Winter the only tool—it goes only to senior citizens but, as I Fuel Cut. Recently, a group from Northern Ireland led have said, they are disproportionately affected—but it is by Margaret Galloway, Michael Monaghan and Nixon an invaluable tool in helping to tackle fuel poverty Armstrong travelled to Westminster and presented the among the elderly. Minister of State, the hon. Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb), with a petition. Hundreds of people George Hollingbery (Meon Valley) (Con): Looking at are signing that petition every day. the standard Library note on the issue, I am interested to see that the standard payment for the winter fuel Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind): Before the right allowance has been £200 and £300 since 2003, supplemented hon. Gentleman leaves the subject of Northern Ireland, by one-off extra payments in the past three years, so the will he reflect on the fact that, for the first time, a standard rate has remained the same. The right hon. commissioner for older people—and a very good one in Gentleman may also have noticed that in 2006-07 and Claire Keatinge, who was formerly the director of the 2007-08, that one-off payment was withdrawn and the Alzheimer’s Society—has been appointed? Does he see amount paid was the standard payment of £200 and a role for the commissioner on the issue of winter fuel £300. Does he have any data about the increase in payments? How could she influence the Government to deaths in that period and whether there was a real effect do the right thing? We hear a lot of criticism of human of that money being withdrawn? rights in the House, but there is a guarantee that no one in the UK should experience degrading treatment. For Mr Dodds: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point older people, the Government’s policy seems like degrading about the standard rate, and of course when the Chancellor treatment. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree? made his announcement about the winter fuel allowance earlier this year he did not dwell on it in any great detail. Mr Dodds: I certainly do agree with the hon. Lady, In fact, he passed over the issue almost completely, and who rightly points to the important step taken by the we found out about it only in the small print. I understand Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive of appointing the hon. Gentleman’s argument, but it beggars belief a commissioner for older people, which follows the that whereas it was thought okay to have the increase in appointment in Wales of someone who fulfils the same each of the last three years, the Chancellor and the kind of role. I have no doubt that the commissioner, Government have chosen this year to cut the extra who I agree is an excellent appointment, will be active in payments for our senior citizens, despite the anxiety putting to Northern Ireland Executive Ministers the that was expressed throughout the House just a few case for our older people. As I outlined earlier, a number weeks ago about extremely high and rising energy prices of things are currently being undertaken by the Executive, across the country. and they are considering others, to help our older When I raised the matter with the Prime Minister on people. However, what the hon. Lady says on winter 2 November, he said: fuel payments, which affects the entire country, and “we have kept the plans that were set out by the previous Government which is for decision and debate in this House, should and I think that is the right thing to do.”—[Official Report, carry some considerable weight. 2 November 2011; Vol. 534, c. 918.] On whether the allowance is poorly targeted and I have listened to the Prime Minister and Ministers whether it is the appropriate way in which to deal with speak many times about their spending plans and what fuel poverty—the right hon. Member for Rotherham the previous Government did, but I do not think I have (Mr MacShane) mentioned this—the argument against often heard them say that. On virtually every occasion the universal payment principle overlooks the fact that they have said that the previous Government’s plans many of those entitled to, for instance, pension credit, were leading to economic disaster, yet on this issue, and do not receive it, for a variety of reasons. In Northern only on this issue, they pray in aid the fact that the Ireland, somewhere in the region of £60 million is not previous Government were, they say, going to cut the claimed by those who are entitled to pension credit. 187 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 188

Those people are hit with a double whammy: they do Levels of fuel poverty in this country are staggering: not get pension credit or cold weather payments, because in England, 18% of households are in fuel poverty; in the latter go only to those who claim the former. The Wales, it is 26%; in Scotland, it is 33%; and in Northern only way to ensure that the most vulnerable people get Ireland, it is 44%. It is right across the board. That financial help is to keep the universal payment. I believe equates to 302,000 households in Northern Ireland that there is no dispute between the Government and alone, 75,000 of which are in extreme fuel poverty, those who agree with me, because the Conservative which means that they spend 20% or more of their party pledged in its manifesto that the allowance would income on fuel. Furthermore, almost half of all fuel-poor be kept. households in the country are headed by over-65s, so clearly fuel poverty disproportionately affects the elderly Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and to a staggering degree. Lesmahagow) (Lab): The right hon. Gentleman makes Yet the situation will only get worse. I have highlighted a potent argument, but does he share my concern that the rising cost of fuel. In the past five years to October cold weather payments are triggered by monitoring 2011, the retail price of gas in the UK rose by 52%, and equipment in only certain parts of the country? My the price of oil rose by 86%. In Northern Ireland, the area shares the same climate characteristics as his, and situation is much worse. The price of home heating oil, my constituents regularly lose out, which is why the which is a product that we depend on, has risen by universality of the wider payment is a much better 63% in the past two years and by 150% since 2003. system. Almost 70% of homes in Northern Ireland depend on it for their primary source of heating—that figure is 82% Mr Dodds: The hon. Gentleman rightly points to one in rural areas—yet the price of oil has risen beyond of the major deficiencies of cold weather payments, anyone’s imagination. which has also been raised by DUP Members. Mr Weir: The situation is similar in rural Scotland. I Mr David Hamilton (Midlothian) (Lab): Another have previously suggested—I wonder whether the right point is that, currently, cold weather payments are not hon. Gentleman agrees with this proposal—that the taxed—they go directly to the person and the payments Government make the fuel allowance available earlier in cover everyone. If the money is put through in different the year to those who rely on home heating oil, when ways, it could be taxed and off-takes would come into price and demand are lower, allowing them to fill up operation. That would affect not just those 13 million before the winter hits and the price tends to rocket. people, because the families of many old-age pensioners supplement their parents’ incomes to make sure they are okay. Mr Dodds: Yes, the hon. Gentleman raises an important point about those who depend on home heating oil. Mr Dodds: The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. These are one-off payments of about £600 for 900 litres of oil—it is a lump-sum payment—so it would be The Institute for Fiscal Studies has said that people extremely helpful to people to have that money in their are 14 times more likely to spend the winter fuel allowance hands when they were able to buy more oil at a lower on fuel than they would be if their incomes were increased price. He makes an extremely good point. in other ways. If an allowance is given specifically to spend on fuel, people are more likely to spend it on fuel; The picture is stark: we have much higher energy they would be less likely spend an allowance on fuel if it costs; there are considerable pressures on pensioner was not designated as a fuel poverty measure. There are household incomes owing to lower savings returns; and strong arguments—for reasons that hon. Members and increases in VAT are hitting everybody hard, but hitting I have outlined—for retaining the universal payment of pensioners particularly hard. Furthermore, pensioners a winter fuel payment at current levels, and for indexing tend to be on fixed-retirement incomes, and we know payments to the rising cost of energy. Some have argued that, according to a recent report, the cost of living has that at a time of pressing demands on the Treasury and risen by one fifth for older people over the past four given the state of the economy, that would be a luxury years, compared with 14% for the population as a we can ill afford. As I have indicated, money has been whole. found for the priorities that the Government have deemed At the last election, the parties made a number of essential: the protection of international aid budgets, pledges. On pensioners, the Conservative party described taking a penny off fuel duty, ring-fencing NHS budgets the number of excess winter deaths as a national disgrace, and so on. It is vital, however, that we also prioritise and it said: saving the lives of our senior citizens in times of very “we want to set the record straight. Labour are sending cynical cold weather. and deceptive leaflets to pensioners’ homes saying we would cut The chief medical officer has said that the annual their benefits. This is an outright lie, and here it is in black and cost to the NHS of treating winter-related diseases white: we will protect pensioners’ benefits and concessions, and resulting from cold private housing is estimated at about this includes: the Pension Credit; the Winter Fuel Allowance; free £860 million, but that does not include additional spending bus passes; and, free TV licences.” by social services, economic loss through days off sick, I defy anybody out there in the public to interpret that and so on, which means that the total cost to the NHS statement as anything other than a pledge not only to and the country as a whole is unknown. However, we do maintain the existence of the winter fuel allowance, so know that every £1 invested in keeping homes warm that it continued to be paid as a benefit, but to maintain saves the NHS 42p in health costs, so again this money it at the same rate at which people were receiving it would be well spent, and it could save the NHS more when the election was called. What other interpretation money in the long term. can we put on those words? 189 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 190

[Mr Dodds] be indexed to reflect rising energy prices. After all, when the winter fuel payment was initially introduced, it paid The Liberal Democrats said in their manifesto before over half the cost of an older person’s fuel bill, whereas the last election that they would reform winter fuel the current level is nowhere near high enough to meet payments, extending them to all severely disabled people, those bills. Our attitude to this issue goes a long way and that this would be paid for by delaying age-related towards illustrating our attitude to the treatment of our winter fuel payments until people reached 65. However, older people throughout the country. I hope that the the Minister, who is in his place, said earlier this month: whole House will join me and my right hon. and hon. “There are no plans to extend provision under the winter fuel Friends in supporting the motion this evening, and I payment scheme.”—[Official Report, 3 November 2011; Vol. 534, commend it to the House. c. 719W.] The coalition programme for government stated: 5.9 pm “We will protect key benefits for older people such as the winter fuel allowance,” The Minister of State, Department for Work and and so on. Then there is the argument about the Labour Pensions (Steve Webb): May I first thank the Democratic party’s position and what Labour was proposing—or Unionists for bringing this subject for debate before the not proposing—to do had it remained in office. House? It is an important and significant issue. As we I point to those pledges for this reason. People say have heard from the contribution of the right hon. today that politicians, Parliament and this House are Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds), particular aspects disconnected from ordinary people. People are losing of the issue have particular resonance in Northern faith in politics; and is it any wonder, when they read Ireland. I shall make some reference to the specific those clear statements and are led to believe one thing, circumstances of Northern Ireland, but it is worth but then, as soon as the election takes place and the setting the UK-wide context for the decisions taken same politicians come to office, they turn round and do about the level of the winter fuel payment and the cold something entirely different? Their argument in doing weather payment. The right hon. Gentleman is correct so is: “Well, we’re only doing what the previous Government that the Government had choices to make, and they said they would do.” When people can so cynically made a choice about the cold weather payment, but I do disregard the pledges that they make on such an important not know whether he is aware that that choice was a issue, that is another reason for the disconnect between significant one—one that I believe has proved to be politicians and the public out there. correct. The backdrop was as my hon. Friend the Member for Sir Robert Smith: I understand the right hon. Gentleman’s West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith) argument, but does he think that one reason for the described it a few moments ago. Initially, the winter fuel disconnect is perhaps also the previous Government’s payment was only for people on means-tested benefits, mistaken decision to raise the rate to a level that they or a higher rate went to those eligible for means-tested did not think they could afford to maintain in the long benefits, but eventually, some years ago, it got up to its term? That was where the disconnect started. full universal rate of £200 and it stayed at that level year after year; it was not indexed. Then we reached two Mr Dodds: I have not heard it said that the level of years before a general election when the public finances the payments made over the last three years was were looking good and the then Chancellor decided to unsustainable. I have never heard anybody make that make a one-off increase to £250 and £400. As I say, argument. when it was announced, it was announced as a one-off. Let us be fair: the Government have made choices. Then we reached the year before the general election They have decided, because of the economic situation and the Government of the day thought that cutting the and the deficit, to cut expenditure in certain areas. In winter fuel payment would look bad so near to the other areas, they have decided to maintain or increase election, so they announced a further one-off increase spending. That is the choice of the Government and the to £250 and £400. They stressed again that it was a majority of the Members of this House; but do not let one-off. anyone pretend that the Government had no choice Then we reach the March Budget of 2010, and it about winter fuel payments or that they had to do what became apparent in March that the Government would they did. They did not have to do it: they chose to pick have to announce the rate for winter 2010. Funnily this area for cuts and not others. That is a reprehensible enough, six weeks before a general election did not choice—a choice that is not justified either economically seem like the right time to reverse a one-off increase, so or morally. At a time of so many excess winter deaths a further one-off increase was announced again for the among our older population, it is appalling that cuts winter of 2010. We know it was a one-off increase should be aimed at that sector of our population. because the public spending plans of the previous Government were published into the new Parliament. George Hollingbery: Will the right hon. Gentleman We thus know that the plans we inherited were to cut give way? the winter fuel payment back to its core level of £200 for the winter we are now going into and for succeeding Mr Dodds: I am pressing to a conclusion now. I am winters. That was the baseline against which we made sure that the hon. Gentleman will want to catch our decisions. Mr Speaker’s eye in order to speak, as other Members will want to. Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): The winter fuel payment should be restored to the The Minister is outlining what happened under the amount that was paid over the past three years. Indeed, previous Government and stressing that the single or I would go further and say that future payments should “one-off” payment as he has described it on several 191 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 192 occasions was maintained just before an election. Given save the £400 million that is going to the External that my right hon. Friend the Member for Belfast Action Service, along with all the other money that is North (Mr Dodds) alluded to the Government’s statement being wasted? And what about the £80 million that he that they would keep faith with the previous Government wasted on the alternative vote referendum, which could and in conjunction with what the Minister has just said, have gone towards helping older people rather than does it mean that in three years’ time he will reinstate being wasted on a trivial political exercise? the cold weather payment? Steve Webb: It is intriguing that, in presenting a Steve Webb: Well, obviously, cynicism would be well 30-minute explanation of why we should spend a further beyond this Government. The rates of public spending £600 million, the right hon. Gentleman should remove are published through a comprehensive spending review the bit about where the money should come from, period and for the rest of this period the figure we which seems to me to be fairly central to the debate. inherited was £200. That, as I say, was our baseline. Faced with that baseline of a proposed reversion to a Another strange thing that went on was to do with £200 winter fuel payment and an £8.50 cold weather the cold weather payment. That is the money paid when payment, we could simply have gone ahead with the it is freezing cold to the poorest and most vulnerable previous plans, and found our £70 billion to £80 billion people—the poorest pensioners and the poorest disabled on top of that. However, we took the view—as does the people. Temporarily, pre-election, that was increased right hon. Gentleman—that fuel poverty matters, and from the regular £8.50 to £25 a week. Temporarily, too, we therefore found the money that would enable us to for the year after the election, as announced before the reverse the planned cut in the cold weather payment. I election, it was to be maintained at £25 a week. You will believe that ours was the right priority. If we are concerned not be surprised to learn, Mr Speaker, that beyond that, about the most vulnerable when it is most cold in the it was planned to be slashed back to the £8.50 a week coldest of winters, we should bear in mind that an level. In other words, had we done nothing and taken increase from £8.50 to £25 gives people the confidence no action, the winter fuel payment would have reverted to turn up their heating when it is bitterly cold. The to its £200 level and the cold weather payment paid to system even allows cold weather payments to be triggered the most vulnerable when it is most cold would have by a forecast. It need not actually have been freezing reverted to £8.50 a week. cold; we merely have to expect it to be freezing cold. Let me remind Members that that was the baseline Last winter in Northern Ireland, we made 672,000 from which we were trying to find something in the cold weather payments at a cost of £16.8 million. Had order of £70 billion to £80 billion-worth of savings, so we not reversed the earlier decision, the value of those the question was not whether we should cut the winter payments would have fallen by about two thirds. Our fuel payment or the cold weather payment, but whether decision put about £10 million into the hands of the we could find the money to reverse the planned cuts, poorest pensioners and disabled people in Northern and thus have to find still further cuts from across the Ireland during a bitterly cold winter, and I am proud budget. that we made it. I agree with the right hon. Member for Belfast North on one point—that Governments have to make choices Mr McCann: Many constituents throughout the country, about priorities. He listed some of the priorities of this including mine, will not be able to gain access to cold Government: ring-fencing the NHS, for example, about weather payments because the necessary monitoring which I suspect the pensioners of Northern Ireland will equipment is not there. be glad. He also mentioned the penny on petrol duty. I was not aware that it was his policy that we should not Steve Webb: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for have reversed that, but I am happy to be corrected. raising that point. A number of Members in all parts of the House contact me about cold weather payments for Mr Dodds: I am sure that the Minister was listening which I am responsible. The hon. Member for Argyll and when I said that I supported those priorities. My point Bute (Mr Reid), for example, wrote to me saying that he was that the Government had decided to increase or did not think that the cold weather stations in his maintain spending in certain areas but to target cuts on constituency matched the actual pattern of cold weather. other areas, and I wanted to know why they had targeted our senior citizens. I have been very impressed by the work of my officials, who take seriously every representation received about Steve Webb: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman cold weather stations. We change them every year in for confirming that the measures that he listed were response to such representations. There will be stations measures that he supports. I had assumed that, having in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, but if he thinks begun by telling the House that we should spend an that they are in the wrong place or measuring the wrong extra £600 million on something, he would in the course data, I can tell him that we work very closely with the of his speech identify something on which we should Met Office, and respond thoroughly and carefully to all spend £600 million less. Given that he spoke for 30-odd submissions. As far as I am aware, I have not received a minutes, I may have missed it. submission from the hon. Gentleman, but I apologise if he has already contacted me. If he has not, I encourage Mr Dodds: I could have taken much more time—indeed, him to do so. I had a page devoted to areas that we could cut—but I considered it to be in the interests of the debate to leave Mr McCann: The issue has been raised both by me time for others to speak. I am sure that my colleagues and by my predecessor. My nearest cold weather station will make similar points, but may I begin by suggesting is Bishopton. As anyone from Scotland will know, East that the Minister reverse his attachment to Europe and Kilbride is one of the coldest places in the country 193 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 194

[Mr McCann] Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): The Minister told us that by maintaining the cold weather payment of the during the winter. However, there is no monitoring previous year this Government had given an additional equipment, although South Lanarkshire council has £10 million to pensioners in Northern Ireland. Will he monitoring equipment in the constituency to ensure tell us how much money he is denying to pensioners in that gritting takes place. I should be grateful if the Northern Ireland by refusing to maintain the level of matter could be looked into. the winter fuel allowance? Has he done the same calculation?

Steve Webb: I am happy to do that. It would be Steve Webb: What we have done is preserve the helpful if the hon. Gentleman would be kind enough to amount that was scheduled to be spent in Northern give me as much detail as possible in writing. In general, Ireland exactly as planned. Clearly, £50 a head in Northern as I have said, I have been impressed by how responsive Ireland is probably slightly more than the figure for the the system is. cold weather payment. I did some mental arithmetic while the right hon. Member for Belfast North was Sir Robert Smith rose— speaking and I suspect that that figure is slightly larger. The key choice was between doing nothing—taking our Steve Webb: I will give way in a moment. There is a baseline and taking £70 billion or £80 billion out—and recognition that, wherever we put the cold weather trying to reverse at least one of the cuts. I think that the stations to try to capture some of the variation in right thing to do was address the cold weather payment. climate, such as the seven stations that serve Northern Let me give a slightly cheeky example of why that was Ireland— our priority. I checked the dates of birth of the hon. Members from Northern Ireland and found that at least Mr Gregory Campbell rose— one of them would, in principle, qualify for a winter fuel payment—I am not going to name names. [HON. Steve Webb: I will give way to my hon. Friend the MEMBERS: “Go on.”] I am not even going to look in the Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine direction of the person I am talking about. (Sir Robert Smith) first and then to the hon. Gentleman. No matter where we put the cold weather stations, Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): I hoped somebody, somewhere says, “Hang on a minute, it is in to catch your eye, Mr Speaker, and at the commencement the wrong side of the postcode” and so on. We keep of my speech I was going to make it very clear that I these things under constant review because we want the qualify for the winter fuel payment. When I have received system to work. it, I have always given it to a disabled family who do not get that allowance. I am happy even to give the names of Sir Robert Smith: I wish to reinforce the point that the people who receive it. the Minister has made. A submission was made that there should be a measuring station at Aboyne in my Steve Webb: That is entirely the response that I expected. constituency and the Minister decided that there will The point is that not everyone would perhaps respond be, which means that people living in the colder inland in quite that way. Given the choice between spending part of the constituency no longer have to rely on the money on at least some folk gracious and generous measurements taken in a coastal community. enough to give it away, or on people who self-evidently desperately need it because they are on a low income or Steve Webb: Indeed. I feel that I am acquiring an are disabled and it is freezing cold, the priority at a time encyclopaedic knowledge of the remoter parts of Scotland when money is tight is obvious. This is one decision that through this role, but I am grateful to my hon. Friend I would defend. for reminding the House that we listen to representations that are made and take them seriously. Mr Weir: Will the Minister address the point? Whether he is saving money on one or the other, he has just Mr Campbell: Just two weeks ago, the Northern admitted that the figure spent in Northern Ireland is Ireland Assembly was informed of a change in my lower than it would have been overall. However, the cost constituency, whereby the existing station in Ballykelly, of energy has rocketed in the past year or two, so every which is a few miles inland, is to be replaced by a new pensioner in Northern Ireland or in any other place in station in Magilligan, which is right on the coast. The the United Kingdom is paying more for their energy Minister will be aware that it is inevitable that coastal and is suffering through this system. Would it not be stations will be a degree or two warmer than those better to put some money in to ease that suffering? inland, so 3,500 people might or might not get a cold weather payment on the basis of a reading from a Steve Webb: Absolutely, and I shall come on to the slightly warmer cold weather station. whole subject of the fuel poverty strategy that we have adopted. I suspect, as my hon. Friend the Member for Steve Webb: As I said a moment ago, we work closely Meon Valley (George Hollingbery) suggested in an with the Met Office on these matters. I do not claim intervention, that the correlation between the rate of expertise on meteorological matters, but the Met Office the winter fuel payment and the depth and impact does. Where changes are made to metering stations it is of fuel poverty is incredibly weak, if it is there at all. In always with a view to being more accurate, rather than other words, we have seen the winter fuel payment go less. There is certainly no attempt made to move them up and go down, yet if that was plotted against the to where the sun shines. We will examine that issue this terrible problem of excess winter deaths or fuel poverty, winter. If the hon. Gentleman’s impression from this I suspect there would be no correlation at all. When winter is that that change is causing problems, I will be money is tight, we should be prioritising how we spend happy to hear from him. it so that it will do the most good. 195 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 196

As the hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir) rightly it so that every year from now on, pensioners in Great says, fuel bills have shot up. Surely the priority should Britain and Northern Ireland will see their pensions rise be stopping people paying a fortune for their fuel when by the highest number of inflation measured by the half the heat goes out through poorly insulted walls, consumer prices index, earnings and 2.5%. We are in a windows and lofts. Every year, it is tempting to say that strange period in which inflation is greater than earnings, this winter we should put cash into people’s hands but in most years, earnings have grown faster. That will because it is cold. Of course that is true, but if we mean that as we return to more normal times, pensioners always put off the hard work of insulation, energy will enjoy above inflation standard of living increases efficiency and so on, the situation will be the same the year after year. next winter and the one after that. Money spent on The cost of that commitment—I hope that the energy efficiency will save pensioners and others money Chancellor is not listening at this point—will add a every winter, rather than our giving them cash one year, total of £45 billion to the amount we spend on pensions only for the heat to go out through poorly insulated by the mid-2020s, which gives a sense of the magnitude roofs and windows. of what we have announced. That is rather invisible at the moment, because prices are higher than earnings. Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): The When I signed the legislation into law last year, I Minister has outlined one facet of the problem, but one expected bells to peal and for there to be confetti on the of the major facets has not been touched on today, floor and so on. That has not quite happened yet, although it has been mentioned in Adjournment debates because people have not seen the impact. In the longer in Westminster Hall. We really need to look at the term, it will give a sustained boost to the real incomes of cartels among the oil companies and to ask what discussions pensioners in Northern Ireland and Great Britain. the Government have had with the oil companies. Equally, the increase in VAT is having an impact. Mr Dodds: The Minister raises the issue of the triple lock. Previously, in the autumn statement the Chancellor Steve Webb: Obviously, the VAT increase does not has always announced the increase in line with the affect fuel prices directly as they are on a reduced rate, September rate of inflation, which would mean a 5.2% but the hon. Gentleman is right that competition in the increase. Does the Minister expect the Chancellor to do energy sector is a key concern of the Government, the same this year, and would he rebuke the Chancellor whether that is in gas, electricity or oil. Our colleagues if he were to take an annual inflation figure? Given at the Department of Energy and Climate Change are what he has said, I take it that he is very much in favour in regular and close contact with the competition authorities, of the former. but one thing the Government are doing is ensuring that people are aware of their ability to switch and get much better tariffs—that is particularly the case with Steve Webb: The Chancellor was asked this very electricity and gas. Clearly, we can do things for the question at Treasury questions recently, and he confirmed, long term, such as sort out the housing stock, but we as is entirely in line with my view, that the triple lock is can also do things for the short term, such as ensure something of which we are proud. I am sure that we will that people get the best price available. There is huge be just as proud next Tuesday when he announces his potential to do a lot more that does not necessarily verdict. involve hundreds of millions of pounds of Government This is not just about the basic state pension: it is also spending but would benefit people substantially. about pension credit. As has rightly been pointed out, we need to make sure that pension credit take-up is Sarah Newton: Does my hon. Friend agree that the maximised and we already do many things in that recently commissioned and reported Office of Fair Trading regard. Some people may not know that they can ring document that specifically, at the Minister’s request, an 0800 number—a freephone number—to claim pension investigated off-grid energy competition was able to credit. They might think there is a long and complicated recommend a series of actions to improve the market form to fill out, but in fact they can claim it over the for heating oil this winter, avoiding the terrible problems phone and can also claim housing benefit and council we experienced last winter? The OFT has now gone on tax benefit at the same time. We also undertake a lot of to look at liquefied petroleum gas. The Ministers in activity to engage with people who might be eligible. DECC are doing everything they can to ensure that the For example, we mention pension credit to people when off-grid energy markets are fully functioning. they claim the state pension or when they report a change in their circumstances such as a bereavement. Steve Webb: My hon. Friend is quite right. In Northern We also have a visiting service so that if people are not Ireland, dependence on heating oil is substantially greater online or perhaps are not able to get out, DWP and than it is on the mainland and even in a semi-rural local authority staff go out to their home and fill in constituency such as my own, oil prices, oil supply and forms with them in their front room. so on are big issues. I am grateful for her kind words As a Department, we are doing quite a lot to encourage about our ministerial colleagues as these are important take-up, but I am aware that the Democratic Unionist matters. party manifesto mentioned trying to pay pension credit Let me go back to the issue of fuel poverty. Clearly, it automatically. We have been piloting that in Great has a number of components and one is income. We Britain and I can update the House on that exercise. We focused on a change from last year’s rate to this year’s of took a random sample of about 2,000 customers who less than £1 a week in the winter fuel payment and that were not receiving pension credit but whom we thought, is what we are talking about today. Instead, we have based on what we knew about them, appeared to be taken the basic state pension, which for 30 years has entitled to it. For 12 weeks, we paid them the money been declining relative to wages, and put a triple lock on anyway without their having to make a claim and then 197 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 198

[Steve Webb] That comes back to the point I was making, which was that this is partly about 98p a week on the winter we contacted them and said, “By the way, we’ve just fuel payment, which is what we are discussing, but far given you some free money. This is what we think you more about stopping people having highly energy-inefficient would get on pension credit—would you like to make a homes and giving them a decent, dignified standard of claim for it?” living. If hon. Members think about the difference that The delivery phase of that study ran from November we are going to make through the triple lock on the 2010 to March 2011 and an evaluation is now under basic pension, it swamps the 98p that we are talking way, but I can update the House on the early findings about today and will make a real impact on the living from that research. We found that by August, after the standard of pensioners over decades to come. process had finished, a percentage of those involved in the study had successfully claimed pension credit. I am Nicola Blackwood: On energy efficiency and insulation, going to ask Members to think to themselves what proposals have come from the Government, including percentage I am about to say, assuming that no one has the green deal. My concern relates to my hon. Friend’s read what we published. So, of the 2,000 people to comments about pension credit and uptake by the most whom we gave pension credit because we thought they vulnerable groups. Have any discussions taken place were entitled to it, what percentage do hon. Members with the Department of Energy and Climate Change think then successfully claimed it? I shall not do a straw about how to improve uptake by those groups, who poll at this point. The answer is just 9%, which is a very would benefit most from the proposals? low figure. Given that 3% of those in the control sample claimed, if we had done nothing we would have had Steve Webb: My hon. Friend raises the important 3% claiming anyway, whereas we had 9%. issue of take-up. Clearly, benefits such as cold weather We found that those who did go on to claim pension payments and the warm home discount, which is the credit did so because the study had raised their awareness £120 off fuel bills in Great Britain, as I mentioned in the of the benefit and their potential eligibility for it, as one letter that I sent, are contingent on receiving an income- might expect. We talked to some of those who did not related benefit. That is a challenge that we always face. claim and found that some of them retained the view We want to target those who are most vulnerable, but if that they were not entitled to it even though we had some of those who are vulnerable miss out on the contacted them and given them the money. Some felt passported benefits, how do we get that money through that they did not need it, which is fair enough, some did without spending it on everyone, resulting in it being not claim because of health issues, others forgot and spread much more thinly? That is a permanent trade-off some did not quite understand what was going on. It and why we are looking at ways of improving the was a complex process, and we will publish a rigorous take-up of these benefits and having a mixed strategy—a evaluation of it. It would be great if we could spot all mix of a universal winter fuel payment that goes to the folk who are not taking pension credit and get the everyone regardless of whether they claim, and targeted money to them automatically, but the early indications help for those most in need. are that that will not be the case and that this approach As a Department we are working with organisations is not a silver bullet that will enable us to deliver the such as Age UK to try to make sure that pension credit money automatically. However, we will see what lessons materials are provided to them. Those organisations we can learn from the pilot and I shall be happy to have responded positively to make sure that the literature update the House on that a bit nearer the time. we provide is easy to understand and reaches the people Lady Hermon: May I establish when the Minister last who need it. I entirely take my hon. Friend’s point that visited Northern Ireland? The right hon. Member for there will always be gaps, and we need to address that. Belfast North (Mr Dodds) gave the statistic in his My view in the long run is that if we can have state opening remarks that 75,000 homes in Northern Ireland pension reform that guarantees a state pension above are in extreme—that is the word he used—fuel poverty. the basic means test, that will go a long way to addressing With the greatest respect to the Minister—and I do some of these issues, but perhaps that is for another day. have the greatest respect for him—I would like him to I do not want to go on too long but I will mention, visit Northern Ireland and come to some of those briefly, the warm home discount. This is important homes. It is absolutely degrading for an elderly person because it is the subject of negotiation between the to have to eliminate their television because they cannot Government and the big six energy companies in Great afford a television licence, or to have to choose between Britain that will give £120 off the electricity bills of food and fuel. This is a really serious problem in Northern 600,000 of the poorest pensioners. That will make a real Ireland. contribution. We do it through electricity bills because Steve Webb: I do not doubt for a second the point pretty much everybody has an electricity bill, not because that the hon. Lady, for whom I have a great deal of we think the price of electricity has necessarily gone up respect, makes. Obviously, as a GB Minister, I am more, but it does not apply in Northern Ireland. responsible for these matters in Great Britain. Fuel There is an interesting question about the negotiations poverty is a devolved matter, although my hon. Friend or discussions between the Northern Ireland Executive the Under-Secretary, who will respond to the debate, and Power NI, for example, about whether the Northern was in Northern Ireland last week. Yesterday I spoke to Ireland providers could be asked to do the same sort of the Northern Ireland Minister for Social Development thing. If the big six are doing it in Great Britain, I to discuss with him these issues as they affect Northern cannot immediately see why the same should not benefit Ireland. He was keen to stress some of the measures pensioners in Northern Ireland. Perhaps right hon. and that the Executive are taking—for example, the double hon. Members could take that back and challenge their glazing of social housing. own power suppliers to do more. 199 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 200

Clearly, we need to make people aware not just of the weather payment is one of the things that we have done, means-tested benefits they can get, but of the help with but I hope that I have given the House a feel for many insulation, cavity walls and so on. Further in response of the other measures that we are taking that will tackle to my hon. Friend the Member for Oxford West and the issue not just for this winter but for the long term Abingdon (Nicola Blackwood), we as a Government as well. are sending letters to about 4 million of the most vulnerable energy customers, letting them know that 5.42 pm they have access to heavily discounted insulation for Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co- their lofts and cavity walls. Even when we write directly op): I thank the right hon. Member for Belfast North to people, we do not always get the results that we want, (Mr Dodds) and his colleagues for bringing this important but we are aiming to target people directly. matter before the House today. The debate is extremely Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Is the Minister timely, as we are at that point in the year when pensioners aware that 43% of those over 75 years of age live in are already worrying about what the coming winter unfit houses? Is that not a group that he should target weather has in store for them. In my constituency—and specifically? in the right hon. Gentleman’s too, no doubt, since he is just across the water from me—we are already experiencing Steve Webb: Perhaps I was not explaining myself rather colder weather than we have here in London. clearly. There is a whole raft of things that we are doing All of us on the Opposition Benches know, and many precisely because low-income households cannot afford on the Government Benches also know, although they the large capital costs of insulation. There is the green may not openly admit it, that people are feeling the deal, the letters that we are sending about subsidised squeeze of rising prices. They are increasingly worried insulation, cavity wall insulation and so on, and the about the basic costs of living, particularly food and measures that we require the energy companies to take fuel prices. With unemployment at its highest level for under the carbon emissions reduction target, the CERT 17 years, and more women out of work than at any time scheme. There is a whole raft of things that we are since 1988, more and more people are struggling to doing, precisely because of the point that the hon. make ends meet. Gentleman makes, which subsidises insulation. It is The real problem is that this out-of-touch Government perhaps a misnomer to talk about that as being long seem to have no idea what it is like for ordinary people term. Someone’s house can be insulated tomorrow, who are trying desperately to keep their heads above which will mean savings on their heating bills. It will water. It is time that out-of-touch Ministers realised take a long time to work through the whole housing how tough things are for pensioners right now and how stock, but that has an immediate and beneficial impact their policies are making things even harder. This year, on people today. Perhaps “long term” was not quite the pensioners are facing not just a double whammy, which right phrase. was referred to earlier, but a triple whammy of higher VAT, soaring energy prices and what is effectively a cut Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP) rose— to the amount of money that they receive in their Steve Webb: Will the hon. Gentleman forgive me? I pockets to assist with winter fuel payments. know that he is responding to the debate, so he will have I do not think that the Government understand why the chance to make the points that he wants to make people are so outraged that the energy companies can shortly. increase their profit margins eight times over at the I entirely accept that the decision about whether to same time as every household in the country is seeing carry on with Labour’s planned cuts in the winter fuel their bills go sky high. The “Plug the Debt” campaign payment and cold weather payment was a difficult one. launched by Consumer Focus and Citizens Advice has We could have gone ahead with both those cuts, which highlighted: would still have left us having to find £70 billion to £80 “The average energy bill has risen by over 21% since autumn billion of deficit reduction, but we took the view that we 2010 from £1,069 per year to £1,273.” should target those most in need through the cold I have heard the Minister say that that is only a pound a weather payment scheme. I am proud that we reversed week, or a small amount, and £200 a year might not that cut; that we found the money to pay the large mean much to the well-off or the millionaire, but believe number of cold weather payments that we did in Northern me it is a huge amount for a pensioner household with a Ireland last year. But the long-term solution to this has fixed income, where every penny is a prisoner. not got to be £1 a week either way on the winter fuel payment; it has got to be home energy efficiency and Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): decent incomes for pensioners, both today and in the Is it the Opposition’s policy to reverse the decrease from long term. It has got to be making sure that people are £250 to £200 a year that they proposed and increase it not wasting their money paying high energy bills, but back to £250? that their homes are kept warm. One of the striking Cathy Jamieson: I will spend some time dealing with things about the issue of excess winter deaths is that in that point during the course of the debate, but I want to many Scandinavian countries, which have much colder say at the outset that it is time this Government took climates that we do, they do not have such a thing as responsibility for their actions, rather than constantly excess winter deaths, simply because the homes are built blaming someone else for unpopular decisions. to a decent standard to begin with. There is a broad agenda here well beyond the rate of Mr David Hamilton: Last week a Mr and Mrs Watt one particular social security benefit, but I can say to visited my constituency surgery. They do not make the the House that we are absolutely committed to tackling distinction when losing that £50. They believed that they fuel poverty. The reverse of the planned cut in the cold had a promise of £250. When £50 is taken off, a technical 201 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 202

[Mr David Hamilton] [Interruption.] Right on cue, the Minister starts again the usual orchestrated chorus from Government Members, argument about whether or not that £50 is there is attacking the previous Government rather than looking inappropriate. I also wish to point out that when the at what his Government are doing today. winter fuel allowance was first introduced—before some Members came into this place—it was temporary for Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): the first few years and then we made it permanent. This On the additional costs of food and fuel, is it not really Government could have done exactly the same. beholden on the Government to realise that those are the areas where pensioners, in particular, feel the pinch? Cathy Jamieson: IamsurethatMrandMrsWattare We are in a situation whereby many pensioners say that fairly typical of many of the pensioners we all see in our it is a matter of either heating or eating, so the Government surgeries. It is not only my hon. Friend’s constituents should adjust not their philosophy but the reality of life who see this as a cut. The charity director of Age UK to the fact that these inflationary measures are hitting said earlier this year: pensioners, who do not have the money or the resources to back up the costs when they come in with the bills “While the uplift was billed as a temporary measure, renewed annually, for those older people struggling to pay fuel bills, this is that they have to pay. a question of semantics and they will view the measure as a cut.” Pensioners view the measure as a cut as less money is Cathy Jamieson: My hon. Friend makes an important going into their pockets. point. Many pensioners do not want to admit the financial difficulty that they are in. Often, they try to I know from my hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of hide it from their family, friends and local community, State for Northern Ireland, as was mentioned earlier in so they go behind closed doors and curtains, do not put the debate, that the average household energy bill is the heating on for fear of the huge bills that may come around 14% higher in Northern Ireland than in England in, and choose at times when their money is tight to cut and Wales. In the 21st century, it is absolutely shocking down on nutritious food and other essential items. That that around 1,300 are estimated to have died from cold is the stark reality for many pensioners living in our weather-related illnesses in Northern Ireland last year. communities today, and it is time that the Government I must also gently point out to the Minister and other realised that they have to take responsibility for their Government Members that, although advising consumers own decisions. to shop around and switch suppliers might make sense The Government have to take responsibility for their to some people, many of the pensioners I have spoken actions and face up to the consequences, so let us take a to find the range of tariffs and options on standing look at the facts. I am sure that I will get more sedentary charges completely baffling. If people do not have comments from Government Members, but it is important access to the internet and the price comparison sites to remind people that the UK economy has flatlined that the better-off might use, where are they to start? over the past year, with just 0.5% growth well before the Pensioners do not want the hassle of complicated forms eurozone crisis, which cannot therefore be entirely to and do not always trust advice given over the phone, blame for choking off recovery. In the European Union, particularly after the bad publicity about people feeling only Greece, Portugal and Cyprus have grown more under pressure to switch suppliers. slowly than the UK, and the United States has grown I heard what the Minister said about there being an more than three times as fast as us over the past 0800 number to call for advice. I do not know whether 12 months. he has sat with constituents and tried—[Interruption.] The Government’s mistaken decision to raise VAT to He mentions pension credit, but I do not whether he 20% in January has hit pensioners hard. Estimates are has sat with constituents who use a range of advice lines that it will cost a pensioner couple on average £275 a and sometimes find them difficult to use. They might be year, and I return to my earlier point: that may seem like pensioners who are unused to speaking in detail over a small amount to some Members; it is not a small the phone and find it an off-putting experience. It is amount for someone who is facing the rise in prices, important that people can have face-to-face advice and trying to make every penny go that bit further and I would welcome any effort he can make in that regard. facing such difficulties every day. I also want to mention briefly those who are off-grid, We know that the Government’s policies are hurting and there are similarities between Scotland and Northern ordinary people, because we hear it every day from Ireland, particularly in rural areas. It is not so simple constituents, as my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian for people in those areas to shop around, although (Mr Hamilton) said, so we, like the right hon. Member some helpful work has been done, for example, in for Belfast North who moved the motion, believe that ensuring that there are co-operative ways for communities the Government should look again at the impact of to come together to purchase fuel. I hope that that is their polices on winter fuel payments and on VAT, something the Government will support. which in combination have hit pensioners hard. With consumer prices index inflation at 5.2%, pensioners The Government have the opportunity to ease the on low and fixed incomes are among the most tightly squeeze on pensioners, and they should take it by squeezed, and again Age UK states that temporarily reversing the VAT rise. At the very least, “older people have experienced a rate of inflation on average 5% they could do so immediately and put that £275 back above headline measures and this is, in part, because the proportion into the pockets of pensioners. of their income spent on food and fuel is higher than for other age When Labour introduced winter fuel payments, it did groups.” so as part of a drive to help tackle fuel poverty among The harsh reality is that, instead of supporting pensioners, pensioners, and I accept that some Government Members this Government’s actions are making life even tougher— genuinely want to see the problem tackled. The payments 203 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 204 were specifically designed to give older people the and it was absolutely in the Chancellor’s power to reassurance that they could afford to heat their homes continue with the extra payment, as Labour Chancellors in winter—and do so in a way that would allow them had in previous years. It is therefore absolutely wrong to continue to buy their food and to pay the rest of their for any Government Member to say that the decision bills. was taken by the previous Government; the decision to At the time there was, and indeed there has been axe the additional payment was taken by this coalition since, criticism that the winter fuel allowance was not Government —no one else. targeted in the way that some anti-poverty organisations might have wished. Some people wanted the allowance Steve Webb: Leaving aside the fact that the shadow to go further, and others wanted different groups of Work and Pensions Secretary was the man who left the people included, but we know from research by the note saying, “There’s no money left,” I must ask, if the Institute for Fiscal Studies that households receiving previous Government planned to keep the winter fuel the winter fuel payment are almost 14 times more likely payment at £250, why did they not set the money aside to spend the money on fuel than they are if their incomes in their Budget plans? are increased in other ways. That is quite important, and the IFS specifically stated: Cathy Jamieson: The decision was taken year on year, “Households receiving the Winter Fuel Payment spend 41% of and it would have been entirely open to a new Government it on fuel even though there is no obligation to do so. When the —indeed, if a Labour Government had been elected, same households receive additional income which is not labelled there would have been the option—to look at the measure in any way, they spend just 3% of it on fuel. To put it another way, year on year, so no matter how many times Ministers simply increase the income of a pensioner household by £100 and raise the issue, they cannot get away from the fact that they will increase their spending on fuel by £3. Label that increase the very people who decided not to go ahead with the a ‘Winter Fuel Payment’ and £41 will go on fuel.” payment are the coalition Government. Indeed, the IFS went further by stating: I am astonished to hear the Minister seemingly suggest “The winter fuel payment was introduced to encourage older that this Government had to follow everything that the households to spend more on heating in the winter. Remarkably it previous, Labour Government did. If that had been the appears to have had just that effect.” case, we would still have had a future jobs fund, and To be fair to the Government, at least for a moment, perhaps youth unemployment would not be rocketing. they do seem, to be fair— No one wants to intervene on that point, so perhaps we will hear more from the Under-Secretary in her winding-up The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work speech. Rather than harking back to the past, it is time and Pensions (Maria Miller): “They do seem to be fair.” that this out-of-touch Government came back to reality Cathy Jamieson: On one or two things, and on this and dealt with the real-life issues facing today’s pensioners. point the Government do seem to have moved on from Let me give the last word on this to the voice of the days when some people who are now in prominent pensioners. Speaking about the Chancellor’s decision to Government positions thought that winter fuel payments axe the additional payments, Dot Gibson from the were “gimmicks”. To be fair again to the Pensions National Pensioners Convention has said: Minister, back in May he answered a written parliamentary “It’s a shabby way to treat Britain’s older generation. If we question by stating: really are all in this together, why is he going to take £100 off the “The winter fuel payment provides a significant contribution winter fuel allowance for the oldest members of society at a time to an older person’s winter fuel costs and provides vital reassurance when fuel bills are rising and winter deaths amongst older people that people can afford to turn up their heating.”—[Official Report, are a national scandal? He should be ashamed of his behaviour”. 23 May 2011; Vol. 528, c. 493W.] Today, he seemed to suggest that he still agrees with that 6pm in principle, and I am glad to hear it, although I Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) disagree with him on whether the amount of money (LD): I congratulate the right hon. Member for Belfast going into pensioners’ pockets has been cut. North (Mr Dodds) on choosing this subject. With The coalition agreement, which has been referred to, winter fast approaching, this is an issue that will clearly states: be on many of our constituents’ minds. Although it has “We will protect key benefits for older people such as the been unseasonably warm in my part of Scotland, we winter fuel allowance”. must realise that the winter is still ahead of us and we Most reasonable people reading that statement or hearing face the challenge of yet again trying to heat our homes. those words coming from the mouths of Ministers I declare an interest to the House. In the Register of might reasonably have expected the coalition to have Members’ Financial Interests, I have noted oil and gas protected all winter fuel payments. They were certainly industry interests which are relevant to this debate. the words that people heard in the run-up to the election, As has become apparent in the debate, fuel poverty is but as we know the winter fuel payment will be £50 lower made up of a combination of three pillars: the cost of this year than it was in each of the last three years for the energy itself, the income of the household, and the eligible households aged 60 or over, and £100 lower for quality of the houses that people live in and are trying those aged 80 or over. The Department for Work and to heat. All three of those factors need tackling, and Pensions estimates that 9 million households benefit attempts have been made to do so over the years. I from the winter fuel payment, so 9 million households suspect that one of the mistakes probably made by all of will be worse off this winter. us, but particularly by the previous Government, was People will no doubt seek to make the usual criticisms relying on the cost of energy as the main platform for of the former Labour Government at this point, but tackling fuel poverty in a period when competition when Labour left office no decision had been taken, brought down energy prices. We did not realise the need 205 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 206

[Sir Robert Smith] brings us back to the need to tackle the quality of homes. There is a hope that shale gas may have the to get our housing stock well and truly up to standard potential to assist with energy prices in the medium to ensure that, when prices went back up, people would term, but the reality is that we have to prepare for a be able to afford to heat their homes because they would world where energy prices are higher. Therefore, in not need so much energy. The energy efficiency of terms of targeting resources, I welcome the cold weather homes and our housing stock is a crucial factor in payment being maintained at the higher level because building the long-term foundations for tackling the that at least targets those who have the most need most problem once and for all. effectively. In the run-up to this winter, the Government are The take-up of benefits is crucial and we need to rightly trying to concentrate on making sure that energy reinforce the campaigns and the different ways of engaging bills are as low as possible by pushing for an end to the with customers. The data sharing on pensioners between complexity. As the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and energy companies and the Government is going some Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) made clear, many people do way towards trying to identify those vulnerable customers. not know how to shop around. They are faced with The energy companies that are doing benefit audits of myriad complex tariffs and offers and are lured in to their customers have shown that such an approach can sign up to new contracts and, after that, a rising tariff. greatly improve a household’s income. Pensioner take-up One of the ways of improving the markets and ensuring of targeted benefits needs to be improved, as does the that at least bills are no higher than they should be is to information. We need to try to get across to people the have clearer tariffs and an end to the complexity. message that these payments are entitlements. not gifts. The other problem is that of houses not on the gas People are entitled to these payments and they should grid. It would be interesting to hear, perhaps in the reply not feel in any way inhibited from claiming them, to the debate, whether anything can be done in Northern because they have been paid for and they are meant to Ireland to extend the gas grid. If we can get more be claimed. If they were claimed, the problem of fuel people on to the gas main, it will at least ensure that poverty would be reduced. they have one of the most reasonable fuels for heating Information is also crucial in trying to get people’s their homes in the immediate future. homes up to standard. There is still a lot of reluctance However, not every house will be on the gas grid and to engage, even when energy efficiency is free. With the we will have to tackle the problem of those that are not. upheaval and the uncertainty, people do not have the Consumers of grid heating fuels such as gas and electricity confidence to let someone into their home to interfere have a market in which Ofgem—the regulator—and the with the fabric of their building. We need to give people rules consider how vulnerable customers are treated, more reassurance that the long-term benefits of improving and vulnerable customers cannot be disconnected in the the energy efficiency of their home will give them a winter. However, following the Office of Fair Trading stable future when it comes to fuel bills. inquiry and all the other reports on the off-grid, I am concerned that heating oil and liquefied petroleum gas Mr David Hamilton: The hon. Gentleman has mentioned suppliers do not have the same constraints on their that the take-up is not as good as it could be, but part of market in terms of how they handle vulnerable customers the problem is that we do not have a one-front shop. We and their relationship with them. should have an organisation—for example, one of those dealing with welfare rights such as the citizens advice Mr Weir: The hon. Gentleman is making a very good bureau—through which someone who is looking for point. He may remember that, in the previous Parliament, benefits can also find out about the other things available the excuse was always that that market was made up of to them. How does that square with the cuts that are smaller companies. Does he agree that that is no longer being made to local government, because that is the so? In many cases, suppliers have a virtual monopoly, other side of the coin? There are substantial cuts. Many and it is high time that the same sort of tariffs were of the people who give the advice are not there now and introduced into that market as those that exist in the some of those organisations are closing down. I should electricity and gas markets. also declare an interest in this debate because I am over 60 so I qualify, too. Sir Robert Smith: One can certainly buy from a lot of brands, but when one gets behind them and finds out Sir Robert Smith: Yes, it is crucial to ensure that who the beneficial owner is, one learns that it is not people have access to the information. We also need to necessarily a different company. There is still scope for ensure that those who have contact with pensioners are considering something we pursued when the hon. aware of it. The health benefits of living in a properly Gentleman and I were both on the Select Committee on insulated home are very great, but not enough is done Energy and Climate Change in the previous Parliament, through the health service to steer people towards available and that is whether Ofgem should have some kind of schemes to help them to heat their homes. When someone locus in relation to off-grid customers as well as on-grid presents at a GP’s practice with a health problem that customers. It is certainly worth pursuing with the Secretary can be exacerbated by a cold home, they should immediately of State and Ofgem whether there is any way it can be be steered towards information about how to get benefits involved in that market to improve the treatment of to improve their home. vulnerable customers. I shall highlight one of the frustrations of promoting I welcome the warm home discount because, obviously, warm homes week. I went out to help energy efficiency that targets a saving that goes some way to counteract installers. At one semi-detached house, people were the loss of income. However, we must recognise that the drilling a hole in the wall and putting a chain down through long-term pressures are upward for energy prices, which the hole in the wall between them and the neighbour. 207 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 208

When I asked why, they said, “It’s to make sure the Sir Robert Smith: There is an aspect of off-grid that I neighbour doesn’t get any insulation,”because the neighbour did not touch on, and I wonder whether the hon. did not want it. That shows both the resistance to what Gentleman thinks that there is more mileage in it. As is inevitably in the best interests of the home and the the renewable heat initiative comes in, does he agree level of inefficiency. Installers cannot do a whole street that converting some off-grid domestic properties to because individuals have not got the confidence to heat pumps, particularly air source heat pumps, could share. Obviously, if they are out installing in one house, make a difference? installing in another house at the same time will greatly reduce the cost of the scheme and increase the take-up. We have to get the information across to people that Dr McCrea: With the greatest respect, many of the these schemes are there to help them and that if they people who are losing the winter fuel payment—for make use of them they will have a long-term benefit. example, those who are over 80—will not know about The great benefit of improving our housing stock is that the scheme that the hon. Gentleman mentions. Let us as people’s incomes fluctuate and as people move, they deal with reality, because these are the people who are will still not fall into fuel poverty. going to suffer as a result of the coalition Government’s proposal. At a fundamental level, we must get the housing stock sorted out, we must give people the confidence to take up the benefits to which they are entitled, and we Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): I congratulate the must ensure that the energy markets work to maximum Democratic Unionist party on proposing this debate, efficiency so that even in a time of rising prices we do and I presume that there will be a Division of some not pay over the odds for our energy. kind so that we can show our views. Does the hon. Gentleman think that the saddest part of this cut, made for the sake of such a minimal amount of money, no 6.10 pm matter what the economic position, is that it is the people over 80 who are really going to suffer? Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): This debate has at least established something, because the Minister has acknowledged, as Hansard will clearly Dr McCrea: I thank the hon. Lady for her comments, show, that we are talking about cuts—that what is with which I wholeheartedly agree. being proposed, and what is actually happening, is a cut for pensioners. I appreciate his having forthrightly When I looked at today’s Daily Mail, I saw that the acknowledged that, for it is often painted in another editor’s comment says—[HON.MEMBERS:“Daily Mail?”] fashion or covered up in some way. With the greatest respect, let me deal with the issue. It says that at a time when our people are enduring cuts at It is true that we are living in financially difficult home, including to the winter fuel payment, UK taxpayers times and that hard choices have to be made. The are ploughing an extra £300 million into an organisation Government have made a choice to cut pensioners’ such as Europe, with increases of “only”2%. The Minister winter fuel payment, and they must stand by their asked where the money would come from; I think we choice. We have often listened to the Government hiding have identified where some of it could come from. behind things that the Opposition were going to do had Instead of paying it to Europe, we could be paying it to they remained in power. They must stop doing that and our elderly people—those over 80 years of age who are face the fact that they are in government, so they carry facing a choice between eating and heating. My right the responsibility. What some other Government were hon. Friend the Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) going to do is not relevant; what is relevant is that this mentioned the money wasted on the referendum on the coalition Government have decided to cut money from voting system, which was held to placate the minor the most vulnerable people in our society. The cost of party in the coalition. That money could have been living for the over-65s is increasing, as it has been for the spent to assist the elderly. It ill behoves those in the past four years, and they are now faced with a cut. coalition to ask where the money would come from to When I listened to the Minister’s speech, I wondered deal with this situation, as they can certainly find it for whether there was a prize for the quiz that he was others rather than the citizens of the United Kingdom. holding, but we have not heard whether he will give some pensioners the prize of a reinstatement of this These past three years have been devastating for the money. fuel poor within our society. Last winter in Northern Ireland, we faced the coldest December for over 100 years, Let us acknowledge that for many of our constituents with energy prices continuing to escalate, and we are in Northern Ireland, gas is not a possibility; they do not entering a situation where the choice between heating have that option. People are facing exorbitant, rocketing and eating is a sad reality for many of our elderly heating oil prices, and in many cases throughout the constituents. In my own constituency of South Antrim, Province they have no alternative. Heating oil prices it has been estimated that as many as 42.4% of the seem to keep going up. My constituents constantly tell population are living in fuel poverty, at least half of me that it is amazing that just when the cheques for whom are pensioner householders. That is a significant the winter fuel payment are about to come through the figure and a worrying statistic. letterbox, the oil prices go up. Perhaps a review of this could be undertaken, because it has a serious impact on Behind the statistics are human beings—elderly people my constituents, who face great difficulties at this time within our society—who are suffering. Research carried of the year. I acknowledge that the energy stamps out by Help the Aged in 2006 suggested that in winter scheme run by some of our councils is of great help to many older people cope with the cold by staying in bed our constituents in enabling them to face the heating longer or wearing outdoor clothes indoors. The charity’s bills that come in during the winter months. opinion that it is unacceptable in this day and age that 209 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 210

[Dr McCrea] their current course of action, are condemning many pensioners in my constituency to a winter of hardship anyone should have to resort to such measures in order and suffering. As the National Energy Action group to minimise heating bills will surely find support across has said: this House. In its impact report in 2006, it stated: “Fuel Poverty is killing those most vulnerable in our society “Winter is a difficult time for many older people. The cold, annually.” dark winter months leave many confined to their homes and for It goes on to say that it is a basic essential that too many older people, those homes are cold, damp and inhospitable. Each year, older people living on inadequate incomes regard the “all householders in Northern Ireland have access to affordable approach of winter with dread”. warmth.” This year, with the decrease in their winter fuel payment, Unfortunately, without urgent action from the Government will certainly be no exception. on this matter, that entitlement will be denied to many. Living in a cold, damp home can have devastating I will finish because I realise that many right hon. and effects on the health and social well-being of the elderly, hon. Members want to speak. I will leave Members with rendering them isolated and susceptible to what should a direct quotation from a lady known simply as Mrs P, be avoidable illnesses such as asthma and stroke. Between who contributed to the Help the Aged impact report: 2002 and 2009, the number of winter deaths in Northern “When I get up, because I can’t sleep and I come down, I put Ireland increased by 366%, and they are now at the an old quilt round me, and I sit here for as long as I can, reading, until I get absolutely frozen. Then I have to put the fire on and I highest level in western Europe. Experts agree that one think to myself ‘Look at me wasting all this fuel.’” of the root causes of this shocking statistic is fuel poverty. Let us not waste a moment longer. I appeal to the Minister to ensure that the appropriate action is taken When the then Government first introduced the winter to prevent people such as Mrs P from falling even fuel payment in the winter of 1997-98, they threw a vital deeper into fuel poverty. and welcome lifeline to many thousands of pensioners across the United Kingdom. The decision to cut the winter fuel payment this year is shocking and people 6.23 pm have reacted bitterly to the news. Only last month, a Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con): It is a great group of older people from Age Sector Platform in pleasure to follow the hon. Member for South Antrim Northern Ireland travelled to Westminster to present (Dr McCrea). The speeches of Members on the Opposition the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, Benches have been characterised by a great passion on the hon. Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb), behalf of their constituents about the issue of fuel with a petition containing the signatures of almost poverty. Everybody in this House is concerned about 15,000 people who were united in opposition to the cut that issue and we have all had to deal with constituents to the winter fuel payment this year. The Age Sector who are finding life a struggle. The opportunity to Platform campaign continues to receive support as each debate our concern for the vulnerable this afternoon is day passes, not only from elderly people but from an example of Parliament at its best, because such younger people who are genuinely concerned about issues are why we are all in this place and why we their parents and grandparents who had depended on attempt to do our best. It is important that Government this additional and welcome source of income. Never Members think about what we are doing for pensioners before has a lobby issue attracted such a high level of and how far we are supporting them in dealing with the support in such a short space of time. ever-increasing burden of fuel prices. Members will be interested to know that in June, a I assure Members of the Opposition parties that if Pensioners’ Parliament was held in Northern Ireland the measures that the Government are putting in place for the first time. There was overwhelming support for a were less than adequate, I would be the first in line to motion calling on the Government to reverse their criticise them. However, if we look just through the decision to cut the winter fuel payment this year and to prism of the winter fuel payment, we do not see the look at ways of linking future payments to energy whole story. We need to look at the wider support that prices. A survey conducted in the run-up to the Pensioners’ we are giving to pensioners through pension reform and Parliament also emphasised the need for action in this other benefits. area. It showed that three out of four older people identified keeping warm in winter as a worry, making it Lady Hermon: I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Lady the number one concern. As politicians, we cannot fail so early in her speech. She has conveyed the impression to recognise that a strong message is being sent to us that coalition Members are very concerned, as they and to this House. ought to be, about this serious issue that affects all parts The proportion of homes in fuel poverty in Northern of the United Kingdom. Why, therefore, are there so Ireland is three times greater than that in England. few Members on the Government Benches this evening? Households in Northern Ireland spend 43% more on It is really embarrassing. energy than the UK average. Electricity prices in Northern Ireland are 29% higher than in January 2008 and 11% higher Jackie Doyle-Price: I could also point to the lack of than in the rest of the UK. The price of home heating Members on the Labour Benches, but this is not an oil increased by more than 150% between 2003 and occasion to engage in party politics. We need to turn 2010, with 23% of that increase occurring in just the last our attention to debating the substance of the issue. year. I am satisfied that what the Government are putting It is inconceivable that once again this winter our in place is appropriate to support our pensioners. As I elderly will have to choose between heating their homes said, we need to consider the wider support that we are and putting food on the table. The Government, through giving pensioners to deal with fuel bills, the other benefits 211 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 212 that we are giving pensioners and the pension reforms. Jackie Doyle-Price: I think what a lady in that situation We also need to consider the quality of the housing wants is to be warm, and we can apply any number of stock, which has been raised a number of times in this tools to ensure that she is. Part of that is making money debate. We need to think about what can be done to available through the winter fuel payment and pension reduce bills, because then we would not have to give so credit, and part of it is improving the quality of our much support to cover energy prices. At the moment, housing stock. That is the point—it is not simply about a lot of energy is used to heat the air above people’s the winter fuel payment. houses. Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): I thank the hon. Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP): No Lady for giving way. She is being very generous with her one on the Opposition Benches would argue with the time. point that we need to do more to make homes more The hon. Lady has indicated that there are plenty of energy efficient. The difficulty is that we are in the worst areas of support for pensioners that should be used. recession for decades, energy costs are going through However, when we start to dig into them and explore the roof—literally when homes are not properly insulated— them, we realise that they are actually quite limited. For and pensioner incomes have decreased in real terms. We example, someone who applies to the boiler replacement are simply saying that this is the wrong time to make scheme will get help only if they are in receipt of rate such a cut. relief. The people who are in the most need, after means-testing, are those who receive housing benefit, Jackie Doyle-Price: I am pleased that the right hon. but they are excluded from the scheme. There is therefore Gentleman agrees with the point about the quality of a double whammy—even if those people explore and housing stock. There is a lot of Government support try to exploit the assistance that exists, it is not available for people to invest in such improvements. The difficult to them. is in take-up. He focuses on the winter fuel payment and identifies it as a cut. Instead of having a broad-brush, Jackie Doyle-Price: There are a number of schemes one-off payment that is available to everyone, we must that are designed to provide such support, and I suspect tackle the root causes of fuel poverty and identify the that there are alternative schemes for people who claim households that will benefit the most from such help. housing benefit. Also, who is responsible for meeting the cost of such work depends on the nature of the Sarah Newton: Does my hon. Friend agree that many landlord. of the solutions can be found locally in our communities? For example, Community Energy Plus is working with I should like to highlight some of the things that the Cornwall council to use the Government incentives to Government have done to alleviate fuel poverty for tackle fuel poverty by offering free insulation to vulnerable pensioners. We have heard reference to the warm home households living in fuel poverty in Cornwall right now, discount, which will enable pensioners to have a mandatory this winter. The critical role that we can play as MPs is rebate on their electricity bills. The Government have to work in partnership with organisations in our also permanently increased the cold weather payments, communities to ensure that people know about and and it is very important to make that point when we take up the good schemes that are available. consider where support is being directed. We can have the universal benefit of the winter fuel payments, and to some extent I am attracted to that, because we have Jackie Doyle-Price: My hon. Friend makes a constructive poor levels of pension credit take-up. However, it is point, which goes to the heart of the point that the important that we strike a balance, because we can all Minister made earlier about the lack of take-up, particularly point out people who are entitled to that benefit and of means-tested benefits. That happens for a host of perhaps do not need it. Focusing more support on cold reasons, including that they are too difficult to take up, weather payments, which go to pensioners who claim that people are too proud, and the lack of awareness means-tested benefit, is entirely appropriate. among pensioners about the support that they can get to improve the quality of their housing. That is because The motion concentrates on the cut in the winter fuel many of the schemes are nationally designed and rolled payments. The Minister said that the level that was out, and the information is not readily available. We can previously budgeted for was only a temporary increase. do a lot to push people in the right direction so that Members have said that we could have decided to stick they can find help, such as through the project that my with that increase, and the hon. Member for Kilmarnock hon. Friend mentioned. All Members can play a and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) had a nice try when she constructive, championing role, because we are all said, “Look, this is a cut, it’s up to you what to do.” community leaders. We need to pay our part in pointing However, as I said, it is important to see the matter in pensioners towards the sources of help that they can the round and see what we have done to focus additional access to tackle this growing problem. support on those who need it most, through cold weather payments. Kate Hoey: The hon. Lady is right that we all have a Members have mentioned the issue of housing stock, responsibility to make people aware of such things. and I encourage the Government to consider what more However, if she were an 89-year-old lady living on her can be done to highlight the schemes that exist and own on a tiny pension, would she really think it her encourage more people to take up support to improve priority to have the huge disruption of someone doing the quality of housing. Ultimately, we are not going to all that work in her house? What she would actually tackle the issues of fuel poverty and ever-increasing want would be the money that she had last year, so that bills unless we really focus on delivering energy efficiency she could increase her use of electricity over the coming in all our homes. We need to do that not just for winter. pensioners but for low-income households in general. 213 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 214

Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): With the years. I believe that will occupy the House’s attention green deal coming down the track, which could have a for quite some time, because we cannot afford to get it huge impact on heating bills right across the country, wrong. We all need to get behind the Government and does my hon. Friend think the Government could learn help to tackle the matter. lessons about how it should be administered, particularly for pensioners? There is a chance that the scheme could Dr McCrea: I accept all the hon. Lady’s points, but be wrapped up in red tape. We have heard about how this is not an either/or situation. Surely the winter fuel restrictive various other schemes can be for the elderly. payments complement what she has described. As the Cannot the Government learn lessons about how the Minister has acknowledged today, the Government are green deal can be delivered for elderly people? proposing cuts. Many of our pensioners are asset-rich but income-poor, and they fall into the means-testing Jackie Doyle-Price: It is always a challenge for the trap. The winter fuel payment is one way to help them. Government and the public sector to deliver such schemes in a user-friendly way that makes them available to Jackie Doyle-Price: I was just about to come on to people and does not dissuade them. We need to continue means-testing, because that is where problems have our principle of using all organisations in society and arisen. I completely take the hon. Gentleman’s point making them approachable. As my hon. Friend the that many pensioners are asset-rich and cash-poor, and Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) that is why they find it difficult to make ends meet and mentioned, we need to use voluntary groups and the pay all their bills. However, the biggest problem with other groups that are closest to pensioners, to encourage pension credit and the move to means-tested benefits is them to engage. We can see elements of that starting that a number of people are not claiming what they are already in welfare reform. The Government are looking entitled to, for a number of reasons. It is partly because to local authorities to be stronger delivery partners, of the complexity of the system, but probably one of because they tend to be the organisations with which the biggest reasons is pride. Those of us who were pensioners have the closest day-to-day contact. We need familiar with my grandparents’ generation know that to think carefully about making support people-friendly they really did not want to ask for what they were and easy to access. entitled to. We have tried to strike a balance between universal payment and means-testing, to direct support I wish to set the winter fuel payment against the to those who need it. Ultimately, that will work only if broader context of what the Government are doing for we make it easier, and less of a stigma, for people to pensioners. They have confirmed that they will be keeping claim what they are entitled to. other benefits, such as free TV licences, prescriptions and eye tests, and they have set aside £650 million to I am quite confident that we have got the balance help local authorities freeze council tax. We should all right, but I am not confident that we are doing enough recognise that council tax has been a real problem and to encourage people to make claims. The National has contributed to pensioners’ financial difficulties. As Audit Office has pointed out that of the one third of we know, if local authorities can limit their budget people who are entitled to pension credit who do not increases to 2.5%, the Government will meet the cost of claim it, many are in the poorest households. All of us the freeze. In recent years the average increase in council could do our bit by highlighting the fact that support is tax has been quite significant, and it has been a pernicious available to people and encouraging them to claim it if bill for many households. they are entitled to it. I particularly wish to congratulate the Government We want to ensure that older people receive the help on restoring the earnings link to pensions and introducing to which they are entitled, and we need to satisfy the triple lock to guarantee an increase in the basic state ourselves that we are putting enough measures in place pension of the highest of earnings, prices or 2.5%. That to support our pensioners. I am grateful to Democratic measure will go further than any other in addressing Unionist party Members for initiating this debate, which pensioner poverty. It will give pensioners a firm financial has given us the opportunity to ask ourselves whether foundation from the state and guarantee a more generous we are doing enough, and I congratulate the Government state pension. That is the essential goal of what we are on all that they are doing in this area. trying to do—we want to ensure that everyone is guaranteed an income that will prevent them from being in poverty. Several hon. Members rose— Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I just Sarah Newton: I completely agree with my hon. Friend’s say to hon. Members that we have four more Back point about improvements and annual increases in the Benchers to get in, and we are up against time—we have state pension. Does she agree that some of our reforms just under an hour left. to the NHS will also have a hugely beneficial effect on older people? Integrating social care with the NHS and giving the health and wellbeing boards a key health 6.40 pm outcome of reducing fuel poverty represents a more David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): It is important holistic approach. We are considering pensioners, their to say at the start that DUP Members support the measures families and their lifestyle in the round, and we are that coalition Members have talked about, including supporting them. insulating walls and new windows, but we need to talk about now. We are coming into the winter, and we need Jackie Doyle-Price: The broader point is that many to talk about winter fuel payments. Those other measures of the issues that face us in later life have been parked are good in their place, and eventually—hopefully—they for too long. I congratulate the Government on gripping will be implemented in many of our older buildings in them, and in the ongoing debate we will have to ensure the UK, but that is not happening now. We need to talk that we have good provision for people in their later about the here and now of winter fuel payments. 215 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 216

I begin by quoting a Government Minister speaking winter to keep energy costs down. That looks set to rise. in this Chamber a little earlier this year: The hefty 21%, or £224, hike in the last year means that “I am sorry, we got this one wrong—but we have listened to energy costs are the top household worry for consumers— people’s concerns. I thank colleagues for their support through 90% of households are worried about energy costs, what has been a very difficult issue. I now want to move forward whereas 42% of households are worried about mortgage in step with the public. I hope that the measures that I have payments and 77% are worried about the rising cost of announced today, signalling a fresh approach, demonstrate my food. intention to do the right thing”—[Official Report, 17 February 2011; Vol. 523, c. 1155-1156.] The disposable income of more than nine in 10 households —93%—has been hit by the rising cost That was the Secretary of State for Environment, Food of energy. Thirty-seven per cent. have seen a dramatic and Rural Affairs speaking about forestry. Would it not reduction in their disposable income, while 19% no be an extraordinary state of affairs if a member of Her longer have disposable income. More than one in three Majesty’s Government could come to the House to households—37%—are in bill debt and are using credit offer an apology, concede that the Government have got to cover their day-to-day household bills. Thirty-six per it wrong, say that they had listened to the people and cent. owe more than £1,000 and more than one in 10 announce a change of direction on forests, but another households—14%—owe more than £3,000. member of the Government says that there could be no such apology, announcement or about-turn when it If ever a year were exactly the worst time to introduce comes to our elderly, who are some of the weakest and such a cut, it is this one. If ever there were a year when most vulnerable members of our society? introducing such a cut was precisely the last thing that the Government ought to do, it is this one. That is the distasteful core of the debate, and it is why the DUP moved this motion today. Some hon. Members This debate was introduced by the DUP, but it is not might feel that using words such as “distasteful” is taking simply about Northern Ireland; it is rightly about the things a bit far, but let me quote from the independent entire UK. However, alongside the issues that I raised financial advice website, moneysavingexpert.com. On previously, I should like to focus on Northern Ireland. 24 March 2011, it reported that the Chancellor had According to Age Sector Platform—other right hon. “secretly” cut the allowance. In an article published on and hon. Members have stated this, but it needs to be 19 October 2011, fullfact.org considered the conflicting stated again—last winter, Northern Ireland faced the arguments between the political parties and referenced coldest December for more than 100 years. It was a a recent piece jointly written by the Prime Minister on horrific time for the elderly. According to figures that I moneysavingexpert.com on 17 October. The fullfact.org have been given, during the winter of 2009-10, 756 people article concluded by saying that despite questions on aged 65-plus died of cold-related illnesses in Northern how long the payment was intended for, Ireland. “there seems to be no question that the payments are being With the additional costs, the price hikes, the increased reduced.” bill debt, the reduced disposable income and the increased My colleagues mentioned this earlier, but it perhaps rationing of warmth, does any right hon. or hon. Member needs to be mentioned again. The Minister asked, “Where really suppose that we will not witness more vulnerable does this extra money come from?”. In that respect, we people dying needlessly this year? Does anyone suppose need to emphasise the hundreds of millions of pounds that the planned cut will reduce the number of deaths? that have been poured into Europe—in Northern Ireland, If the Government can come to the Chamber, offer an we would say that it is disappearing like snow off a apology, claim to have listened to the views of the ditch. We see no benefit from the money, but our old public and announce a U-turn on forests, why can they and other members of society in the UK are suffering not do likewise for the old, the frail and the most greatly for it. The Government need to re-look at the vulnerable in our society? money that they are pouring into Europe while our old There are many men and women fighting for this and infirm are suffering at home. country in Afghanistan, or who fought in Iraq and Libya, who have parents at home who are vulnerable According to uSwitch.com, the price comparison and getting it hard. They are fighting for their country website, the position for many in the UK is that since while this coalition has taken away the very money that November last year, energy suppliers have increased could help to heat their parents’ homes. That decision is their prices by £224, or 21%, on average. As a result, the unacceptable and needs to be reversed. If the Government average household energy bill has rocketed from £1,069 can do it for forests, surely to goodness they can do it to £1,293 a year. In just over five years, household energy for the most vulnerable in our society. bills have rocketed by £633, or 96%, from £660 a year in 2006 to £1,293 a year today, following recent increases. Several hon. Members rose— The number of those in fuel poverty has spiralled, with 6.9 million, or 27%, of households now affected. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. Three The worst affected groups are single working parents, people have indicated that they wish to speak, and the pensioners or couples living off one income. Almost nine wind-ups start at 7.18 pm. If they can divide the time in 10 households—89%—will ration their energy use among themselves, everybody will get in. this winter to save on bills. As a result, potentially 23 million households will be switching off or turning down this winter, 4 million—or 16%—more than last year. 6.50 pm Eighty-seven per cent. of people are worried about Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): It is a pleasure to the cost of their energy bills as they head towards the follow the hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson). winter months, 26% more than last year. Fifty-five per I commend him and his colleagues on bringing cent. of people went without heating at some point last the motion to the House. In particular, I commend the 217 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 218

[Mark Durkan] their inadequacy and the poor and inconsistent triggering system. Thankfully, we got something similar with the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) on winter fuel payment in 1998. the cogent and assertive way in which he moved the Over the years, the amount of money committed to motion and anticipated many of the Government’s the payment has changed and top-ups have been introduced. arguments. Pensioners have come to see those top-ups as a given, The motion is timely and focused. Contrary to much and considering what the Prime Minister said going of the debate, which has ranged far and wide along the into the election, they had every right to expect them to full dimensions of fuel poverty, the structural condition remain a given. The motion tabled by my compatriots of the housing stock, fuel prices and all those vagaries, in the Democratic Unionist party gives the House the the motion is focused on something under the control opportunity to signal to the Government that that is of the House and the Government: the decision on the what we want and what pensioners expect. winter fuel payments. We are clear that all those issues Many valid arguments have been made about how to need to be addressed, and the measures taken by the tackle fuel poverty—improving energy efficiency, for previous and present Governments are to be encouraged, example. Although some of those measures can be as too are other more far-reaching measures, but given introduced in Northern Ireland at the devolved level, the rampant rise in energy costs for older people and all others need wider intervention from here. Those could the other pressures on their incomes, we cannot countenance include more up-front investment in energy efficiency complacency about the cut to winter fuel payments. retrofit schemes or VAT concessions not least to stimulate The decision on winter fuel payments represents a work in the hard-pressed construction sector, which is clear and present cut imposed by this Government. The not building new houses. There is an awful lot of work Minister tried to argue first that it was not a cut, then that people with construction skills could do to retrofit that it was a Labour planned cut, but the fact is this: it is and improve existing houses, and there are many things a clear and present cut for pensioner households already that young people who want to get construction skills facing other pressures and difficulties. It is a sleight of could do on such schemes. The Government need to hand for people to suggest, “Well, the Government think more widely about other measures to tackle fuel were committed to doing what the previous Government poverty, but they should not use the existence of other did”, because really they said, “No, we’re only committed interventions as an excuse to justify this unjustified cut. to doing what we think the previous Government planned, I shall not rehearse the statistics on the levels of fuel not what they did.” poverty in Northern Ireland that my colleagues have The hon. Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) mentioned because other Members want to speak, and said that we have to talk to and listen to our pensioners. nor shall I rehearse the number of winter deaths from I have, and every single one has told me that the cut is fuel poverty either in the UK at large or in Northern an issue for them, and every single one is clear that for Ireland. I shall only make the point that those deaths three years they received payments at a certain level, but are avoidable and that we need to take what steps we that this year they will not get them at that level. That is can to avoid them. This cut is avoidable. a cut, and it is a cut from this Government. The Minister asked, “Where else can the money come from?” I do not necessarily agree with some of the Jim Shannon: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that suggestions from right hon. and hon. colleagues, although this is at a time when they need it most? I am glad that the Government moved on from some of the vanity projects—for example, the NHS IT scheme. Mark Durkan: Yes, of course it is at a time when they Money could also be saved on Trident. need it most, and it is not only the time of year when they need it most but the time in the economic cycle—with Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) all the difficulties that people are facing. (Lab): The hon. Gentleman mentioned mortality. As he We have heard some duplicitous arguments from knows, I have family in Armagh, where the climate can Government Members. On the one hand many people be pretty tough, but it can be even colder and more talk about the difficulties with means-tested benefits difficult in Scandinavia, where the figures for hypothermia and with supporting pensioners through pension credits, are much lower than ours. Is that not a point that we but on the other hand we have heard criticisms of the should bear in mind? fuel payment and the fact that it is not means-tested or Mark Durkan: Yes, it is. That raises questions about discriminatory. We have heard contradictory arguments. investment in quality housing stock and the levels of Indeed, the Minister earlier argued against the whole social support, guarantees and interventions available scheme, structure and logic of winter fuel payments. He in Scandinavian countries, and it is why we need to actually argued against the allowance altogether and follow the precise focus of the motion, which relates said that better, more discriminating interventions were specifically to the winter fuel payment. available to protect people against fuel poverty and to I attended the Northern Ireland Pensioners’ Parliament support more deserving pensioners. In the light of his logic, to which hon. Members have referred. It took place in I wonder whether the Government plan fundamentally the summer—in June—yet the single strongest issue to review or redesign the fuel payment. coming through concerned the winter fuel payment. The previous Government introduced the single annual Yes, people were aware of the changes and the pensions payment in 1998, but the first time I heard it advocated triple lock, but they did not buy it and obviously was in 1988, when my predecessor, John Hume, commended resented the sleight of hand, with the change in indexation to the then social security Minister, John Major, the and so on. What they focused on was the direct cut introduction of an annual thermal allowance to overcome facing them. That is why so many people have campaigned many of the difficulties with the cold weather payments, on it, and not just in Northern Ireland. 219 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 220

As the Government look to what they can do to help The system needs a sense of urgency; I cite the number shelter people from the effects of recession and face the of times that I have to phone through to the pension rampant pressures on household costs, I hope that they credit system to ask for something to be done only for will reinstate the top-up in winter fuel payments to me to have to return to the problem a week later or support pensioners. When pensioners hear the question, perhaps the week after that. The system also needs less “Where will the money come from?”, they say, as some bureaucracy and paperwork. pensioners said at the Pensioners’ Parliament, “When The autumn spending review is an opportunity to put this quantitative easing happens”—supposedly so that older people at the heart of Government policy and to money gets out there into the economy—“why is the plan for an ageing population. Northern Ireland has money given to the banks?” When that money goes into some 300,000 people of retirement age, who make up the banks, does it get out there into the economy? Those 17% of the population, and the trend is upward. pensioners make the sensible point—this is one thing Unfortunately, the figure will be 24% or 25% in a few we do know—that when we give money to pensioners, it years. The largest increase will be in what is sometimes will be spent. It will not stay in those households; it will referred to as the “older old”. It is not an “Irishism” to be spent, in local shops and so on, and go usefully and say that: it refers to those who are 80-plus, who feel the legitimately into the economy. If there is another phase pain of winter more than most. Other Members have of quantitative easing and more money is made available underlined that point today, stressing the importance of to go into the economy, perhaps it should go via pensioners. all those who fit into the pension bracket, but especially Then we would all share in the benefits and, in particular, those who are 80-plus, of whom it is estimated that pensioners would be sheltered from the cold. there will be some 130,000 in a short period of time. Again, that is a concern. 7.1 pm Two fifths of single pensioners and one fifth of pensioner Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): It gives me great couples have no income other than their retirement pleasure to speak in this House on behalf of the elderly pension and state benefits. Whenever we put the issue in and those in need, and to address the issue of the winter perspective, we see that the winter fuel payment means a fuel payment. whole lot to those people. Some 44% of my constituents I read a statement the other day that said: are in fuel poverty. By the way, the same proportion of “The world is getting older. The UN has called the current those entitled to draw the pension credit—44%—are global ageing trend a situation ‘without parallel in the history of not claiming it. When the Minister responds, I will be humanity.’ Here in Northern Ireland, our very own society is keen to hear her ideas about how we can ensure that ageing…An ageing demographic like this carries significant they apply. One of the figures underlining this issue that consequences for the fabric of our community. It changes how we came up in research is that average weekly unclaimed plan the way we live; education systems, health and social care, work benefits are estimated at between £1.2 million and life, family life. It affects older people now and in the future.” £2.3 million, which is a vast amount of money. It is I am aware of the clear demographic changes in my important that we address those issues. constituency of Strangford, to which many people move to retire—it is a beautiful place to visit at most times, Some 23% of older people across certain parts of but it is also a nice place to retire—and where the issue Northern Ireland are living in poverty, whereas the of winter fuel payments comes up over and over again. figure is 16% in the UK. The Minister referred to how It comes up because—let us be clear about this—winter we gauge the extra money in the winter fuel payment to fuel payments are not a luxury, but something that goes reflect the temperature. I made the point in a Westminster to pay for fuel, which, for most elderly people in my Hall debate earlier this year that I drove from Greyabbey constituency, means oil. Therefore, the cost is greater to Newtownards in my constituency, speaking to people than anywhere else. It is no exaggeration to say that along the way, and found different temperatures all the literally hundreds of my constituents have spoken to my way up the road. Obviously the temperature is lower offices about this issue, and it is clear what they are closer to the coast, but in certain parts of Ards it was telling me: winter fuel payments are critical for them to below zero, while over in Ballygowan and Comber it get through the winter. was minus 3º or 4º. That is an illustration of how the temperature can vary within a 50 to 60-mile radius. Age NI has a vision for Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom: Why is it crucial that the winter fuel payment is made? Because a failure to do so will mean more “To create a world in which older people flourish,” referrals to the health service, with elderly care accounting and: for 21% of all the programme of care expenditure. I will “To enhance and improve the lives of older people”. not go into all the figures that others have mentioned, Those are the words of Age NI, but they should apply but I will make this point. It is important to make a everywhere in the United Kingdom, and be taken on “pre-emptive strike” when it comes to health, particularly board by all the elected representatives in this place through the winter fuel payment, which plays a clear as well. role. For every death from cold, there are eight hospital Age NI has three themes—health and social care; admissions and 100-plus visits to GPs and health centres. poverty; and equality and human rights—but this evening When we add that to the figures, we know what we have we are focusing on poverty. Poverty affects health and to do about the winter fuel payment—it helps to avoid social care, and winter fuel payments and poverty affect lots of those issues, too. equality and human rights as well. Although there are Elderly care expenditure per head for Northern Ireland many ways of helping—my right hon. Friend the Member is £2,086, while in Scotland it is £2,313 and in Wales it is for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) spoke earlier about the £2,109. I would also like to make an important point—the pension credit, and the Minister responded in an hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) made intervention—we need a way of speeding the system up. this point too—about Alzheimer’s and dementia. In some 221 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 222

[Jim Shannon] are struggling to pay their bills. The amount that most people can save from switching is not going to make a 26 years as an elected representative, I can never recall a significant difference to these bills. That is especially time when so many people had dementia or Alzheimer’s. true for the poorest pensioners. To get a better deal on We therefore need to enable our senior citizens to enjoy energy bills by switching, they have to move to a direct a level of health that will not cost more later on. debit tariff, and many of the poorest pensioners do not The winter fuel payment makes that contribution. The have bank accounts or simply like to juggle their bills in Government have stated that they will restore the earnings the month and do not want to see money coming out of link for the basic state pension—that was indicated their account on a regular day in the month. earlier. The income-poverty figures show that 23% of I very much agree that we should insulate our houses older people live in poverty, while the figure is 16% for and take more measures, but that is a long-term project. the UK. Some 15% of people in Northern Ireland live What is needed now is relief for our pensioners from in severe poverty—the figure is 9% in the UK, up 3% in ever-escalating bills. In discussing the situation in Northern the last year—while 30% of single women over 75 live in Ireland, the Minister made it clear that the overall effect poverty, and 42% of those homes are condemned. of increasing the cold weather payment as against reducing The winter fuel allowance is the biggest topic in my the winter fuel allowance amounted to a cut in the total three advice centres. For those who qualify, the situation sums going to pensioners. Frankly, that is irresponsible is simple. The price of oil has increased—indeed, it has at a time when prices are escalating. never been as high. If the Government have any intention It is interesting to note the tendency of some Government of reducing the winter fuel payment, balancing the Members to question whether there should be a universal books will not happen. Many OAPs have no income winter fuel allowance at all, but I would remind them other than the state pension, as I said earlier. This was that in the last Parliament they argued against means-testing an issue last winter; it was an issue for me at the for pension credit—correctly, in my view—on the grounds parliamentary elections a year and a half ago; it was an that many pensioners would, through pride, not claim issue at the Northern Ireland Assembly elections back means-tested benefit. The same applies here, and I in May; and it is an even more critical issue today. I urge think the Minister’s figures on the trial project of direct hon. Members to support our proposal. payment of pension credit clearly demonstrate that there needs to be universality in order to get through to Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I call Mr Weir, pensioners. who is to resume his seat no later than 18 minutes past 7. Let me mention one group of special problems for which I suggest there might be cost-free or at least a very low-cost partial solution. It applies to those who 7.9 pm are off the gas grid who rely on home fuel oil for their Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): Thank you, Mr Deputy heating—a problem in Northern Ireland and in large Speaker. I congratulate my friends in the Democratic areas of Scotland. These people do not get the special Unionist party on bringing forward this important debate. tariffs available for those on the grid and, in many of Fuel poverty is an important issue for all of us, and it is these areas, extending the gas grid is simply not a worth noting that in Scotland 770,000 homes are in fuel practical proposition because of the geography of the poverty and that, for every 5% rise in energy prices, a area. Even worse, in winter time, these people cannot further 46,000 go into fuel poverty. Clearly, those, such even be sure of the price of their fuel during the time as pensioners, who are on fixed incomes are much more between ordering and delivering, since in many cases a likely to be affected by these escalating prices. company will not give them a price at the time of In an e-mail prior to the debate, the National Pensioners ordering—the price was certainly rising high last winter. Convention and Greenpeace made the point that the I have previously raised the possibility of allowing winter fuel payment used to cover one third of a dual these people to receive their winter fuel allowance earlier fuel energy bill, but it now covers less than one fifth. in the year, which would allow them to fill up their That shows how much pensioners are suffering. They tanks when demand and prices might well be lower. It is also make the point, since the Minister raised the issue not an absolute solution, but it might help in some way. of cost, that the impact of cold housing on people’s I have raised this with energy Ministers before and I was health already costs the NHS more than £850 million a told that they would consider matters, but nothing year, while restoring the winter fuel allowance would seems to have been done. We need to look at solutions cost only £695 million. It is thus questionable whether like this to alleviate a very serious situation. there is much of a saving in what the Government are The hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and doing. The rises in energy prices cannot be looked at in Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith) talked about the three isolation because just as they rising, so is the cost of pillars, and the Minister rightly said that many of these road fuel, food and other essentials. Clearly, those, such issues were devolved. That is true, but at least two of as pensioners, on fixed incomes are the most affected. these pillars—energy prices and the money that comes In June this year, I received a written answer from the through benefits—are not devolved matters. The devolved Secretary of State to a question on energy prices and Parliaments and Assemblies thus have a problem in inflation, which showed that in four out of the last five dealing with fuel poverty. years, the rise in domestic energy prices—whether we From the outset, the Scottish Parliament has been use the retail prices index, the consumer prices index or inventive in tackling these issues. All parties were involved whatever measure—had outstripped the rate of inflation. in the central heating scheme in the first instance, and That was before the latest round of price hikes. The now it has moved on. The current Scottish Government’s Government’s usual mantra of energy efficiency and energy assistance package, which is worth £33 million, switching simply does not wash with pensioners who has helped 150,000 people on low incomes to reduce 223 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 224 their energy bills. One in six Scottish homes have been say that the issue affecting them most is the fact that visited for a home energy check, which also looks at the they want to stay warm this winter. One of the easiest benefits side. We all agree that something needs to be ways for the Government to help them to stay warm done about this, and almost 18,000 installations have and assist them is through the winter fuel allowance. been made. As some people might say colloquially, “It’s a no The package was originally targeted at pensioners, brainer”—and it really is a no brainer. I hope that the but has since been extended to help other vulnerable Government are listening. We are not after argy-bargy people in these very difficult times and, in addition with the Government—we can do argy-bargy with them to helping pensioners, the scheme has been extended to and we have done it with them and other Governments include the disabled, families with young or disabled in the past—because that is not what this issue is about. children, those with severe disabilities and the terminally I believe that Members in all parts of the House care ill—and it is to be extended to include those on carers passionately about the needs of the elderly, so let us do allowance, which could benefit up to another 7,000 something about that: let us address the issues simply households. Next year, the £50 million warm homes and straightforwardly. funds will also begin operation to give additional help The average cost per household of heating oil and to the fuel poor. None of these programmes is cheap; electricity in Northern Ireland this year will be £2,114. none will ever be cheap. If we go down the road of It is higher in Northern Ireland because more people looking only at energy efficiency, however, we will not there have to use heating oil. There is no way around tackle the immediate problem. It will take many years that. All the other mechanisms—improving home efficiency, before all our homes are energy efficient; the cost of housing standards and so forth—are fine and dandy, doing it is enormous. Although it is a good thing in the and we will get there one day, but the fact remains that long term, we must also deal in the short term with the in rural areas 82% of people today rely on heating oil immediate problem of getting our pensioners through for their homes. The Government have a responsibility this coming winter. to address those people’s needs, and the winter fuel allowance provides them with the easiest, fairest and 7.16 pm most consistent way of doing so. Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): At the outset, let It should be emphasised that, as my right hon. Friend me thank all Members who have attended and contributed the Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) said in his to the debate. My hon. Friends have agreed with most opening speech, this is a life and death issue. We can things, but there have been disagreements on some skirt around it and play about with it, but actions have other issues. That, of course, is the mark of a healthy consequences, and the actions that will be taken by democracy.We appreciate the contributions of all Members those on either side of the House tonight will have their to the debate. own consequences. I put it to Members that if they On Friday this week, my constituent Bill Carson will support the motion to which my right hon. Friend lead 190 pensioners up the hill at Stormont into the spoke so ably, they will save lives. When we cut out all Senate chamber for the second meeting of the Pensioners’ the baloney and party politics, the bottom line is simple: Parliament. It has been a very important Parliament lives will be saved if we keep this allowance. Whose side meeting in Northern Ireland, which represents—across are we on? Are we going to save lives, or is there the all constituencies and across the entire community—the potential for our actions tonight, and the actions of feelings of pensioners and people in the aged sector others in this place, to lead to the loss of more elderly who have issues to raise with the Government. They will lives? debate the report published in June this year, which I want to see energy efficiency in our homes, but, as deals with all the matters that affect pensioners in Northern has been pointed out by John Hills of the interim fuel Ireland. It is a detailed report and lying behind it is a poverty review group, those on low incomes cannot series of surveys carried out across all constituencies afford the investment that is required to make their asking thousands of pensioners what issues affected homes energy-efficient. Even when the other available them most and what key matters drove their lives today. benefits are marshalled, it will take some time for us to Consistently throughout this report, the pensioners get energy-efficient homes. I do not want to get sidetracked came back to one thing, and one thing only—keeping into all the other poverty issues, but those on low warm this winter. Indeed, the response was significant. incomes face a triple whammy: the cut in the payments In the Fermanagh and South Tyrone constituency 83.6% that we are discussing, the hike in energy costs, and the of respondents said that the only thing and key thing need for their energy-inefficient homes to be heated. We they were worried about—their No. 1 priority—was must address the needs of our elderly people as a matter keeping warm in winter and energy prices. In Belfast, it of urgency. was the same: keeping warm in winter and energy prices The hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and were the main concern. In my own constituency of Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith) suggested an extension North Antrim, it was the same, as it was in Armagh, County in the gas grid in Northern Ireland as a possible solution. Londonderry, County Tyrone and County Down. Right We should love to see that happen, but there is not across Northern Ireland, the response was the same. sufficient footfall for it to happen quickly. The rurality Nowhere is an island in political terms. The reality is of Northern Ireland makes it more difficult to achieve. that when a message is as consistent as that and comes We will get there, but it will take time. This measure back like a tsunami, a response must be made. This addresses the problem now, deals with the position as it House has to face the gauntlet that has been thrown is, and allows us to make progress. down. The Government must answer the question of As we were told by my right hon. Friend the Member what they are prepared to do when pensioners from all for Belfast North, £60 million of benefit is unclaimed, across the United Kingdom as well as Northern Ireland sometimes as a result of ignorance but sometimes as a 225 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 226

[Ian Paisley] I do not think that we should be sidetracked into discussing other possibilities, such as what could be result of stubborn pride, and whatever the Government achieved through gas pricing and energy efficiency measures. are doing is not enough to encourage people to claim it. We should deal with the issue that is on the Order Paper, We have a solution which is already working, and which which is straightforward and simple: will the Government gives the Government an opportunity to continue to maintain the winter fuel allowance as the public expect assist those who are in most need. them to, and will they keep the promises that were made The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun at the last election? I believe that that is what is fair and (Cathy Jamieson) was right to say that the Government right. would be judged not on the basis of what the previous Government had said and done, but on the basis of 7.28 pm what they themselves would say and do. That is the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work bottom line for the Government tonight. What will they and Pensions (Maria Miller): I thank Opposition Members do about this issue? I thank the Minister of State for for raising this important subject. We have had a lively coming to the House and explaining what the last debate. Chancellor did, what he should have done and what he Let me begin by emphasising that the coalition could have done, but it was convenient enough for him Government take the issue of pensioner poverty very to say all that. What he should say is the right thing: seriously. Our record demonstrates that. We pay more that we—the Government and the House of Commons— than £2 billion in winter fuel payments, and we pay it to will maintain the winter fuel allowance at the higher more than 12.5 million pensioners, including more than rate to help pensioners in a way that really works, 300,000 in Northern Ireland last year. The payments go putting money in their pockets and allowing them to fill to pensioners regardless of their income, and most do their heating tanks, keep warm, and spend the rest of not even have to make a claim. I think that Members on their money on food. both sides of the House agree that the winter fuel payment makes a real difference, ensuring that pensioners Kate Hoey: Does the hon. Gentleman agree with me, can turn up their heating in the knowledge that they will and with many other Members, that if this is about a receive the help they need in order to meet their heavy lack of money and about the economic situation—as winter bills. the Government obviously feel that it is—we should It is regrettable that the last Administration decided simply say to the European Union, “We will not pay not to provide for a temporary increase to become you this extra amount because we would much rather permanent—to last beyond the year of a general election. give it to our pensioners, our old people, than send it to People can draw their own conclusions about why a unelected bureaucrats in Brussels”? temporary increase in winter fuel payments extended in the year running up to a general election but not beyond. Ian Paisley: When I look at some of the Members It is most telling that the hon. Member for Kilmarnock who are sitting in other parts of the House, I think that and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson), who spoke for the this is another issue on which we might unite the House. Opposition, failed to pledge to make concrete the previous The hon. Lady is right: where there is a will, there is a Government’s temporary increase. I say that because way. she is a shadow Treasury Minister and if she does not know whether the Opposition would make that permanent, The Minister of State spoke of a baseline, which was who would? all about money. Let me extend the musical metaphor and say “Your baseline was flat, sir, and your ear Cathy Jamieson: Will the Minister accept that it is was not in tune with the needs of the community.” If time that this Government took responsibility for their the House is to be relevant, it must be in tune with the actions? The decision whether to pay this increase is needs of our elderly folk out there. It must ensure that entirely down to this Government, and it would be their needs are not only properly addressed, but met. irresponsible for anyone on the Government Benches to The Minister wanted bells and bouquets for what the suggest otherwise. It was not the previous Government Government are doing. I do not mean to be dramatic, but this Government who took the decision on this but the fact is that the cuts they are proposing will bring budget. wreaths, and the bell will toll for the most vulnerable members of society. It is clear that this cut will not Maria Miller: I think the House will draw its own deliver the assistance to pensioners that they claim their conclusions from the fact that the hon. Lady again other policies and benefits will deliver. failed to take the opportunity to make clear what the I was disappointed when the Minister told us—a Labour party’s policy is on this issue. The coalition little disingenuously, I think—that he had been in contact Government have made permanent the increase in the with the Social Development Minister in Northern cold weather payment from £8.50 to £25. Again, hon. Ireland. I am sure that that is true, but I understand that Members on both sides of the House will be pleased to the conversation took place a matter of days ago. The hear that that money is going to the most vulnerable of Minister has been in office for a year and a half, and our constituents. Some 2.7 million pensioner households ours is the coldest part of the United Kingdom. I am receiving pension credit also receive the cold weather not a cynic, but I am tempted to suggest that the payment. conversation with the Social Development Minister may The coalition Government are taking real steps to have been prompted by today’s debate. I hope that if it protect pensioners, which is why one of our first actions was, the Minister of State will note what has been said, was to restore the earnings link with the basic state and will deliver for the House and the people. pension. We also gave a triple guarantee that pensions 227 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 228 will be increased by the highest of growth in average The right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) earnings, price increases or 2.5%. Pension credit is also made a number of important points, and he talked available for those who have low incomes, and we have about benefit take-up. I hope that he can bring himself continued key support for older people such as free to support the work that my Department is doing, NHS prescriptions, travel concessions and free television through the introduction of universal credit, to improve licences. For the longer term, we will need to help the working age take-up of benefits. That is slightly prevent people from retiring into poverty. Again, our different from the issue we are discussing today relating actions are speaking louder than mere words, through to pensioners, but it will make an important contribution. the automatic enrolment in workplace pensions. The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun Hon. Members have made a strong case as to why made a number of important points, and I thank her fuel poverty is a real issue for many vulnerable people, for that. The very existence of the winter fuel payment including pensioners living in Northern Ireland. The does help with people’s mental housekeeping and reassures differences in Northern Ireland are clear, and hon. older people that they can afford to turn up the heating, Members have made that point in this debate. That is as she recognised in her contribution. However, I must why Northern Ireland receives not only the support say to her that tackling fuel poverty in Northern Ireland from pension credits, winter fuel payments and cold is a matter for the Northern Ireland Executive. We have weather payments, which are provided for the rest of to make sure that those important devolved matters are the UK, but a block grant of some £10.4 billion in dealt with at a local level. As I said, she was not clear funding for the Executive to address the particular about the Labour party’s stance on the winter fuel priorities of Democratic Unionist party Members and payment, but perhaps she will clarify it in the closing other Northern Ireland Members. That money goes stages of this debate—or perhaps she will not. along with some £6 billion to pay for the cost of social The Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member security and pensions. We should not forget that Northern for Thornbury and Yate, talked about the importance Ireland receives almost 25% more in spend per head of of prioritising those most in need and he highlighted population than England, in recognition of the real the fact that we have reversed Labour’s cut to the cold issues that individuals living in Northern Ireland face. weather payments. My hon. Friend the Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith) Mr Dodds: The Minister makes a very valid point, highlighted the fact that we are dealing with a complex but will she also acknowledge that, as we have highlighted set of factors. I have to be careful now, because I think in this debate, the people have horrendously higher that I have to correct the hon. Member for South needs in Northern Ireland, which arise because of ill Antrim (Dr McCrea). He said that we were cutting health, fuel poverty and so on? Our energy prices are support for the most vulnerable but that is absolutely also much higher than those in the rest of the United not the case. We are reversing Labour’s proposed cuts to Kingdom, so what she says needs to be put into perspective. the cold—

Maria Miller: I understand the point that the right Mr Dodds claimed to move the closure (Standing hon. Gentleman is making. Indeed, that is why the Order No. 36). block grant is so sizeable and it is important that we Question put forthwith, That the Question be now recognise that. put. Although we clearly want to address these issues here Question agreed to. in Westminster, it is important that we work closely with Main Question accordingly put. colleagues in the Northern Ireland Executive. As the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, The House divided: Ayes 205, Noes 280. my hon. Friend the Member for Thornbury and Yate Division No. 397] [7.37 pm (Steve Webb), mentioned, I was in Belfast only last week meeting the Minister for Social Development to AYES discuss child poverty issues in particular. Addressing Abbott, Ms Diane Brennan, Kevin fuel poverty is a devolved matter for the Northern Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Brown, Mr Russell Ireland Executive, and they are well placed to determine Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Bryant, Chris what measures should be in place to meet local needs. Alexander, Heidi Buck, Ms Karen Hon. Members will be aware that earlier this year Ali, Rushanara Burnham, rh Andy Northern Ireland launched its own fuel poverty strategy, Anderson, Mr David Byrne, rh Mr Liam which set out key areas for improving the situation for Ashworth, Jonathan Campbell, Mr Alan local people. I hope that after today’s debate the Executive Austin, Ian Campbell, Mr Gregory may consider some of the initiatives in England and Bailey, Mr Adrian Campbell, Mr Ronnie Great Britain, particularly the obligation on energy Bain, Mr William Caton, Martin suppliers, which could well be other ways to improve Banks, Gordon Chapman, Mrs Jenny things over the water. Barron, rh Mr Kevin Clark, Katy Bayley, Hugh Clarke, rh Mr Tom We heard important contributions from right hon. Beckett, rh Margaret Clwyd, rh Ann and hon. Members across the House today, but there Bell, Sir Stuart Coaker, Vernon have been some puzzling absences. Where is the shadow Benn, rh Hilary Connarty, Michael Minister for older people? Where is the shadow Secretary Berger, Luciana Cooper, Rosie of State for Work and Pensions? We welcome the hon. Blackman-Woods, Roberta Corbyn, Jeremy Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun, but she is the Blears, rh Hazel Crausby, Mr David shadow Financial Secretary—perhaps that is telling in Blomfield, Paul Creagh, Mary terms of how the Opposition are dealing with this issue. Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Creasy, Stella 229 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 230

Cruddas, Jon Joyce, Eric Tami, Mark Weir, Mr Mike Cryer, John Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Thomas, Mr Gareth Wicks, rh Malcolm Cunningham, Alex Keeley, Barbara Thornberry, Emily Williamson, Chris Cunningham, Mr Jim Kendall, Liz Timms, rh Stephen Wilson, Phil Cunningham, Tony Khan, rh Sadiq Trickett, Jon Winnick, Mr David Curran, Margaret Lavery, Ian Turner, Karl Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Dakin, Nic Lazarowicz, Mark Twigg, Derek Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Danczuk, Simon Love, Mr Andrew Twigg, Stephen Wright, David David, Mr Wayne Lucas, Caroline Umunna, Mr Chuka Davies, Geraint MacShane, rh Mr Denis Vaz, rh Keith Tellers for the Ayes: De Piero, Gloria Mahmood, Shabana Vaz, Valerie David Simpson and Denham, rh Mr John Mann, John Watts, Mr Dave Jim Shannon Dobbin, Jim Marsden, Mr Gordon Docherty, Thomas McCabe, Steve NOES Dodds, rh Mr Nigel McCann, Mr Michael Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. McClymont, Gregg Adams, Nigel Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Donohoe, Mr Brian H. McCrea, Dr William Afriyie, Adam Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Doran, Mr Frank McDonagh, Siobhain Aldous, Peter Dorries, Nadine Dowd, Jim McDonnell, John Amess, Mr David Doyle-Price, Jackie Doyle, Gemma McFadden, rh Mr Pat Andrew, Stuart Drax, Richard Dromey, Jack McGovern, Jim Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Duncan, rh Mr Alan Dugher, Michael McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Bacon, Mr Richard Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Durkan, Mark McKechin, Ann Baker, Steve Dunne, Mr Philip Eagle, Ms Angela McKenzie, Mr Iain Baldry, Tony Ellis, Michael Edwards, Jonathan McKinnell, Catherine Baldwin, Harriett Ellwood, Mr Tobias Efford, Clive Meale, Sir Alan Barclay, Stephen Elphicke, Charlie Elliott, Julie Mearns, Ian Baron, Mr John Eustice, George Ellman, Mrs Louise Michael, rh Alun Barwell, Gavin Evans, Graham Engel, Natascha Miliband, rh David Bebb, Guto Evans, Jonathan Esterson, Bill Miller, Andrew Beith, rh Sir Alan Evennett, Mr David Evans, Chris Mitchell, Austin Bellingham, Mr Henry Fabricant, Michael Farrelly, Paul Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Beresford, Sir Paul Fallon, Michael Fitzpatrick, Jim Morris, Grahame M. Berry, Jake Featherstone, Lynne Flello, Robert (Easington) Binley, Mr Brian Field, Mark Flint, rh Caroline Munn, Meg Birtwistle, Gordon Foster, rh Mr Don Flynn, Paul Murphy, rh Mr Jim Blackman, Bob Francois, rh Mr Mark Fovargue, Yvonne Murphy, rh Paul Blackwood, Nicola Freeman, George Francis, Dr Hywel Murray, Ian Blunt, Mr Crispin Freer, Mike Gapes, Mike Nandy, Lisa Boles, Nick Fullbrook, Lorraine Glass, Pat Nash, Pamela Bone, Mr Peter Fuller, Richard Glindon, Mrs Mary Onwurah, Chi Brake, rh Tom Garnier, Mr Edward Godsiff, Mr Roger Osborne, Sandra Bray, Angie Garnier, Mark Goggins, rh Paul Owen, Albert Brazier, Mr Julian Gauke, Mr David Goodman, Helen Paisley, Ian Brooke, Annette George, Andrew Greatrex, Tom Pearce, Teresa Bruce, Fiona Gibb, Mr Nick Green, Kate Perkins, Toby Buckland, Mr Robert Gilbert, Stephen Greenwood, Lilian Pound, Stephen Burley, Mr Aidan Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Griffith, Nia Qureshi, Yasmin Burns, Conor Glen, John Gwynne, Andrew Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Burns, rh Mr Simon Goldsmith, Zac Hain, rh Mr Peter Reed, Mr Jamie Burrowes, Mr David Graham, Richard Hamilton, Mr David Reeves, Rachel Burt, Lorely Grant, Mrs Helen Hamilton, Fabian Reynolds, Emma Cairns, Alun Gray, Mr James Hanson, rh Mr David Robertson, Angus Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Green, Damian Havard, Mr Dai Robertson, John Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Greening, rh Justine Healey, rh John Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Carmichael, Neil Gummer, Ben Hendrick, Mark Rotheram, Steve Carswell, Mr Douglas Gyimah, Mr Sam Hepburn, Mr Stephen Roy, Mr Frank Chishti, Rehman Halfon, Robert Hermon, Lady Ruane, Chris Clappison, Mr James Hames, Duncan Heyes, David Ruddock, rh Joan Clark, rh Greg Hammond, Stephen Hilling, Julie Seabeck, Alison Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hancock, Matthew Hoey, Kate Sharma, Mr Virendra Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hancock, Mr Mike Hopkins, Kelvin Sheerman, Mr Barry Collins, Damian Hands, Greg Howarth, rh Mr George Sheridan, Jim Colvile, Oliver Harper, Mr Mark Hunt, Tristram Shuker, Gavin Cox, Mr Geoffrey Harrington, Richard Irranca-Davies, Huw Skinner, Mr Dennis Crockart, Mike Harris, Rebecca Jamieson, Cathy Smith, rh Mr Andrew Crouch, Tracey Hart, Simon Jarvis, Dan Smith, Angela Davies, David T. C. Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Johnson, rh Alan Smith, Nick (Monmouth) Hayes, Mr John Johnson, Diana Spellar, rh Mr John Davies, Glyn Heald, Oliver Jones, Graham Stringer, Graham Davies, Philip Heath, Mr David Jones, Helen Stuart, Ms Gisela de Bois, Nick Heaton-Harris, Chris Jones, Susan Elan Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Dinenage, Caroline Hemming, John 231 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments 232

Herbert, rh Nick Main, Mrs Anne Pritchard, Mark Stuart, Mr Graham Hinds, Damian Maynard, Paul Pugh, John Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Hoban, Mr Mark McCartney, Jason Raab, Mr Dominic Swire, rh Mr Hugo Hollingbery, George McCartney, Karl Randall, rh Mr John Syms, Mr Robert Hollobone, Mr Philip McIntosh, Miss Anne Reckless, Mark Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Hopkins, Kris McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Redwood, rh Mr John Teather, Sarah Horwood, Martin McPartland, Stephen Rees-Mogg, Jacob Thurso, John Howarth, Mr Gerald McVey, Esther Reevell, Simon Timpson, Mr Edward Howell, John Mensch, Louise Robathan, rh Mr Tomlinson, Justin Huhne, rh Chris Menzies, Mark Andrew Tredinnick, David Hunter, Mark Metcalfe, Stephen Robertson, Hugh Truss, Elizabeth Huppert, Dr Julian Miller, Maria Robertson, Mr Laurence Turner, Mr Andrew Hurd, Mr Nick Mills, Nigel Rogerson, Dan Tyrie, Mr Andrew Jackson, Mr Stewart Milton, Anne Rosindell, Andrew Uppal, Paul Javid, Sajid Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Rudd, Amber Vickers, Martin Jenkin, Mr Bernard Moore, rh Michael Ruffley, Mr David Villiers, rh Mrs Johnson, Gareth Morgan, Nicky Russell, Bob Theresa Johnson, Joseph Morris, Anne Marie Rutley, David Walker, Mr Charles Jones, Andrew Morris, David Sanders, Mr Adrian Walker, Mr Robin Jones, Mr David Morris, James Sandys, Laura Jones, Mr Marcus Mosley, Stephen Scott, Mr Lee Wallace, Mr Ben Kawczynski, Daniel Mowat, David Selous, Andrew Walter, Mr Robert Kelly, Chris Mulholland, Greg Shapps, rh Grant Watkinson, Angela Kirby, Simon Munt, Tessa Sharma, Alok Webb, Steve Kwarteng, Kwasi Murray, Sheryll Shelbrooke, Alec Wharton, James Laing, Mrs Eleanor Murrison, Dr Andrew Simmonds, Mark White, Chris Lamb, Norman Neill, Robert Simpson, Mr Keith Whittaker, Craig Lancaster, Mark Newton, Sarah Skidmore, Chris Whittingdale, Mr John Laws, rh Mr David Nokes, Caroline Smith, Miss Chloe Wiggin, Bill Leadsom, Andrea Norman, Jesse Smith, Henry Williams, Mr Mark Lee, Dr Phillip Nuttall, Mr David Smith, Sir Robert Williams, Roger Leech, Mr John Offord, Mr Matthew Soubry, Anna Williams, Stephen Lefroy, Jeremy Ollerenshaw, Eric Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Wilson, Mr Rob Leigh, Mr Edward Opperman, Guy Spencer, Mr Mark Wright, Jeremy Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Paice, rh Mr James Stanley, rh Sir John Wright, Simon Lewis, Brandon Parish, Neil Stephenson, Andrew Yeo, Mr Tim Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Patel, Priti Stevenson, John Young, rh Sir George Lidington, rh Mr David Pawsey, Mark Stewart, Bob Zahawi, Nadhim Lilley, rh Mr Peter Penning, Mike Stewart, Iain Lloyd, Stephen Penrose, John Stewart, Rory Tellers for the Noes: Lopresti, Jack Percy, Andrew Streeter, Mr Gary James Duddridge and Loughton, Tim Perry, Claire Stride, Mel Stephen Crabb Luff, Peter Phillips, Stephen Lumley, Karen Pincher, Christopher Question accordingly negatived. Macleod, Mary Prisk, Mr Mark 233 22 NOVEMBER 2011 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 234

Judiciary and Fundamental Rights political and economic reform within Turkey, and we want to see further progress being made at the earliest possible date. 7.52 pm The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): I beg Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I completely agree to move, with what the Minister says. There has been cross-party That this House takes note of Unnumbered Explanatory support for the enlargement process, but when I held his Memorandum of 7 July 2011, the European Union Common job more than a decade ago there were 12 candidate Position on Judiciary and Fundamental Rights (Negotiation countries beating at the door of the EU and asking to Chapter 23), relating to EU enlargement: Croatia; and supports be admitted. At that stage, quite a lot wanted to join, so the Government’s decision to agree the Draft Common Position why does he think so few countries now want to join the at COREPER on 29 June and to adopt formally that agreed EU? position at European Council on 12 July. This debate concerns the European Union’s common Mr Lidington: I bow to the right hon. Gentleman’s position on the judiciary and fundamental rights chapter— experience, because I think he was quite a long-serving chapter 23—of the accession negotiations for Croatia. Minister for Europe. Part of the answer to his question It also concerns the Government’s policy of agreeing is that there are now rather fewer European countries that EU common position in Brussels in June and outside the European Union than was once the case. formally supporting its adoption at the Economic and However, one thing that is common to the political Finance Council on 12 July. During the debate, I hope leaderships of all the countries in the western Balkans is to bring the House up to date on some of the more an ambition to become part of the European family of recent developments in the Croatian accession process nations. We in the UK sometimes underestimate that and on the various reports of the European Commission strength of feeling. They regard membership of the EU about the improvements that Croatia has made. as setting the seal on their democratic development and I shall start by addressing the more general question on the restoration of their place in the European family. of enlargement before moving on to where Croatia fits within the process. The United Kingdom is, and has Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): While we are been from the start, a strong supporter of EU enlargement having a trot around Europe, let me ask about countries as an effective and dynamic agent of change. In a such as Moldova that want to join the European Union. changing world in which economic and political weight Does the Minister agree that what they really want is to is swinging eastwards, the European Union will remain join a free trade area rather than some sort of superstate? strong only if it is outward-looking and continues to Mr Lidington: In my conversations with Moldovan grow. Successive British Governments have believed Ministers I find that they have ambitions for more than that membership of the EU should be open to any just a trading relationship. Certainly, when I have met European country that wants to join and meets the the Moldovan Prime Minister, Foreign Minister and rigorous accession criteria. deputy Foreign Minister, they have stressed to me that There are three key arguments for our consistent, they see value in market integration with the single cross-party support in the House for the process of EU market. However, they also see the move towards meeting enlargement. The first such argument is one of principle. European standards on democratic governance, rule The European treaties make it clear that membership of of law and respect for human rights as in the interests of the European Union is in principle available to any the people of Moldova, enabling them decisively to European country that wants to join and that meets the relegate to history their experience of Soviet rule over accession criteria. It is very hard to establish any reasonable so many decades. Although Moldova is not a candidate ground on which we could say to Spain, Portugal or for European membership at the moment, I have said France that they should be a member of the European publicly in Chisinau—I think I am still the only British Union but to Croatia or another country of the Balkans Minister who has been to the British embassy in or eastern Europe that they should not—if they meet Chisinau—that we supported Moldova’s work within the accession criteria. I stress that second element. the Eastern Partnership as a matter of principle and Support in this country for enlargement goes back a that if it wished to take that further and in due course long way. Some 23 years ago, in her Bruges speech of apply for membership and comply with the demanding 1988, Margaret Thatcher declared, at time when it was accession criteria, the United Kingdom would strongly not fashionable or even believable to do so, that it was support and encourage that. important for everybody in Europe to remember that The second argument for enlargement develops from Prague, Warsaw and Budapest were also great European what I have just said to my hon. Friend the Member for cities. Wellingborough (Mr Bone). There is a powerful political Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): Will the case for the enlargement of the European Union. Minister also confirm that Istanbul is a European city Enlargement helps to create stability, security and prosperity and welcome the fact that President Gul of Turkey is across Europe. We see this most dramatically if we look here this week on an official visit? Does he look forward at the recent history of central and eastern Europe. We to the day when Turkey can also take its place in the have seen how the process of EU accession has helped European Union? to entrench democracy, the rule of law and human rights in parts of our continent where those values and Mr Lidington: Yes, I certainly support what the traditions were crushed for most of the 20th century. hon. Gentleman has said. Labour and Conservative If the House contrasts the experience of central and Governments alike have consistently taken the position eastern Europe in the 20 years from 1919 to 1939 with that we support Turkey’s ambitions to join the European the 20 years from 1989 to 2009, it will see the difference Union. That accession process has helped to drive both that the institutionalisation of democratic reform through 235 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights22 NOVEMBER 2011 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 236 the EU accession process has made, and made for the me from a sedentary position about Poland, which is good. Although I would happily say to my hon. Friends keen to be in the euro one day, but certainly not to be and to some hon. Members on the Opposition Benches told what to do by other, older member states. There is a that there are plenty of faults in the way the EU variety of different positions among member states. currently does business and the way it is constructed, The political value of enlargement is partly that it when we weigh up the value of the European Union recognises the truth about the diversity of European and the United Kingdom’s membership of the European political culture. It is important that as the EU evolves Union, we need to take account of that rather proud and reflects upon its own systems of governance and its political record in support for the development of a institutional set-up, it does so in a way that takes full culture of human rights, the rule of law and democratic account of the diversity of European political and government in parts of Europe where those traditions cultural experience. The model that may have served six have been absent for so long. member states in western Europe in the 1950s will not be the right one for a community of 27—soon to be Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): Will my right 28—member states encompassing all parts of our continent. hon. Friend comment on Macedonia, which is keen to The third argument for enlargement relates to economic join the accession process? Is it not a fact that Croatia interest. The economic benefits of expanding the single or any other country that wants to enter the European market are significant. British exports of goods and Union is signing a pact—a contract—to join the euro? services to the 12 new member states of central and What would be his advice to such countries on doing eastern Europe increased over the 10 years straddling that at this time? their accession by more than two and a half times to over £11.6 billion in 2009. So there are advantages for Mr Lidington: My advice is that that has to be a our businesses and our people, as well as for the businesses sovereign decision for the country concerned. I do not and people of the accession countries. In Croatia’s case, waver in my view that joining the euro would not be in meeting the single market rules means that British the national interest of the United Kingdom, and I businesses will be better able to benefit from trade and make no apology for having long held that view, but investment opportunities in that country—for example, each country must take its own decision. Some countries in Croatia’s expanding ports sector, its tourism industry with small economies, which are, perhaps, very dependent and agriculture. on trade with immediate European neighbours, would find it more difficult to see themselves outside the euro, Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I want to at least over the longer term, than a country such as the challenge my right hon. Friend on the idea that an UK. At the end of the day it must be a matter for each expanded Europe is good for security and stability. I accession country to decide for itself in the course of declare my interest as a special constable with British EU negotiations. Transport police. If one speaks to the British Transport The third argument for enlargement is an economic police or the Metropolitan police, they say that every one and it is— day police officers in London are arresting more and more EU nationals from eastern European countries, Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): Before my particularly Bulgaria, Romania and other accession right hon. Friend moves on to that further point, is states, as part of criminalised gangs working in London there not an important and slightly more domestic because London is the biggest, most cosmopolitan city political benefit to support for enlargement of the European in the European Union. With the EU expanding, the Union? There are more countries in the European Union problem of crime on the streets of our capital city is that want to see a less deeply aligned European Union getting worse because of the ease of access across and more of a trading union, which we on the Conservative international borders. Benches also want to see. The more countries with that view of Europe, the better. Therefore accession countries Mr Lidington: I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s with that view and that approach to markets should be voluntary work for the British Transport police. I certainly encouraged. believe that it is important that we ensure that the freedom of movement that comes with membership of Mr Lidington: My hon. Friend makes a very strong the European Union is not applied in a way that can be point indeed, although it would be a mistake to class all abused. It is right that somebody who is coming here to new accession countries as if they were of one mind and take a job—in some cases it will be a job that British part of a bloc. The Government of the Czech Republic, people have been unwilling to take on; one talks to a lot for example, take an approach towards the European of employers who will say that—they should be entitled Union that on many issues is not dissimilar from that to do so. If they are prepared to come here, live by the expressed by the United Kingdom Government. With law, work hard, pay their taxes and make a contribution the Slovak Parliament’s controversial debate over the to society, few of us have problems with that. But I future of the euro, we have seen the strong view that completely agree with my hon. Friend. If people seek to even a small member state is entitled to have a say and abuse the system and have come here to exploit our not be overruled by a directoire of the larger member welfare system or to commit crime, the full rigour of the states. law should be applied against them. However, I caution my hon. Friend. If one looks at, say, Estonia, the ambition that it had to join the Mr Bone: Will the Minister give way, on that point? euro, and the celebrations on the streets when it joined the euro—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Mr Lidington: I will give way once more to my hon. Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) prompts Friend, then I shall make some progress. 237 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights22 NOVEMBER 2011 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 238

Mr Bone: The Minister, as usual, is being extremely But I emphasise that that support for the common generous. Is not the trick to put on a proviso that people position does not mean that we accepted at that point coming from new accession countries will need a work that Croatia had done all that needed to be done, nor permit to come and work in this country? In that way indeed had the European Commission made that we can ensure that we get people into the EU, without conclusion. The key judgment is whether Croatia will necessarily worrying about flooding the market here for be able to assume in full the obligations of EU membership workers. from the date of its accession, which is proposed for 1 July 2013. The Commission recommended closing Mr Lidington: It certainly was a mistake made by the chapter 23 on the basis of its assessment that Croatia’s previous Government that the transitional controls that track record in these areas indicated that the reforms could have been applied to some of the new member were sustainable and would not slip backwards after the countries were not applied. We are taking very seriously conclusion of negotiations. the transitional arrangements that still apply to Romania Crucially, the Commission also underlined the and Bulgaria. I would also say to my hon. Friend that importance of Croatia continuing to develop a track the process of enlargement and the market integration record of implementation across the board. This last that goes with that should over time—I accept that this stipulation is very important, and one for which we is not an instant process—enable those countries to worked hard during the negotiations. We secured a generate economic growth and employment opportunities number of improvements in the EU common position, themselves that make the sort of migratory pressures building on strong language included in the 24 June from unskilled workers less acute than he identifies European Council conclusions. The key passage in those them at the moment. conclusions reads: Further enlargement depends upon countries meeting “Croatia should continue its reform efforts with the same accession criteria that are both fair and rigorous, and it vigour, in particular as regards the judiciary and fundamental is important when considering Croatia’s case to recognise rights, so as to be able to assume fully the obligations of membership that this conditionality has been further developed since from the date of accession. Monitoring up to accession of these the accession of Romania and Bulgaria, learning from reform efforts will give the necessary assurance to Croatia and to the lessons of the accession experience of those countries, current Member States.” and that conditionality is of critical importance to protect We are determined that Croatia should fully meet EU the credibility of the enlargement process and to encourage requirements across the board, and particularly over future EU expansion. chapter 23, by the time of accession, and we are determined The EU’s approach to negotiations with Croatia was to see that there is no backsliding. In fairness, Croatian guided by the European Council’s 2006 renewed consensus Ministers repeatedly say, in bilateral meetings or at on enlargement. That was agreed in response to the EU gatherings, that they are committed to ensuring lessons learned from previous negotiations with Bulgaria that progress continues. During the final weeks of and Romania. In particular, it led to the creation of an negotiation, we secured agreement to additional monitoring entirely new chapter, chapter 23, to cover judiciary and arrangements for Croatia, which will continue right up fundamental rights. That arrangement, I stress, did not until its accession. We expect each of the Commission’s exist in previous accession negotiations. Croatia has six-monthly reports on chapter 23, the first of which therefore been through a much more rigorous accession was issued on 28 October 2011, to show clear progress. I process, especially over the matters that we are debating should say that the report issued on 28 October is still this evening, than did either Romania or Bulgaria. being analysed in detail by officials in my Department, but I undertake this evening to deposit copies of that Chapter 23 focused on ensuring that Croatia has a report in the Library of the House and to write to the strong and independent court system, is tackling corruption European Scrutiny Committee in order to draw its and organised crime, is protecting fundamental rights and attention to the conclusions of that document. is dealing with the legacy of the Balkans’ wars in areas such as war crimes trials and refugee return. Chapter 23 A comprehensive monitoring report will be presented was opened in June 2010, after the United Kingdom, to the European Parliament and to the Council in the working closely with partners, secured comprehensive autumn of 2012, and these six-monthly reports, together and robust closing benchmarks. These included a with the comprehensive report next autumn, will allow requirement that Croatia co-operate fully with the both Governments and Parliaments right across the international criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. European Union to assess Croatian progress towards full alignment with the acquis and with European standards The Commission published in March 2011 an interim by the time of accession. report that concluded that Croatia had made considerable progress against closing benchmarks for chapter 23 but Croatia is fully aware that the monitoring measures still had further work to do, and as a consequence of now put in place enable the Council to take what are that Commission report, Croatia accelerated its efforts. termed “all appropriate measures”, as agreed at the We agreed with the Commission’s subsequent assessment, 24 June European Council, if issues of concern are set out in the draft common position of June 2011, that identified during the monitoring process. A system of over the six years of its accession process Croatia had sticks and carrots is built into the pre-accession monitoring undertaken significant reform efforts in the area of the process to enable the Commission, on behalf of member judiciary and fundamental rights, that it had worked to states, to keep a very close eye on the detailed progress improve the independence, impartiality, efficiency and that Croatia is making and to flag up any concerns that professionalism of the judiciary, and it had improved its might be discovered about backsliding. handling of domestic war crimes trials, strengthened Croatia is also aware that in order to accede to the the fight against corruption and increased Croatia’s EU on the target date of 1 July 2013, her accession protection of fundamental rights. treaty must have been ratified by each of the 27 member 239 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights22 NOVEMBER 2011 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 240 states, including by this Parliament. As the House knows, to make routine the experience of the mechanism for the Croatian accession treaty will require ratification co-operation and verification that was invented for the under the terms of the European Union Act 2011, and accession of Romania and Bulgaria. Whether one talks that will require primary legislation going through both with political leaders in those countries or in some of Houses of Parliament here. It seems to me that Croatia the older member states, one finds a common recognition knows that it must address thoroughly all the concerns that that was a very unhappy way for those negotiations of the member states if it is to secure that full ratification. to turn out and that it left those two countries feeling On the basis of the clear progress already achieved by that they are being treated as second-class members, Croatia, together with this pre-accession mechanism for even though their accession treaties have been negotiated, robust monitoring right up to accession, we agreed to signed and ratified by everyone. It has left some of the close negotiations on chapter 23. Since the closure of older member states feeling that the decision to allow those negotiations earlier this year, Croatia has continued Romania and Bulgaria to accede was agreed without all to make progress in implementing the necessary reforms. the standards being adequately met. This was noted in the Commission’s progress report, The introduction of chapter 23, which was used for published on 12 October 2011. I want to highlight the the first time with Croatia, has been a significant step progress that has been made in several areas, which the forward in trying to address up front, before we get to European Scrutiny Committee identified as important the end of accession negotiations, let alone ratification in its 38th report to the House. of an accession treaty, the problems that have persisted The Commission’s report notes that Croatia has made with Romania and Bulgaria that we seek to address substantial progress on judiciary and fundamental rights, through the mechanism for co-operation and verification. and that reform of the judiciary has continued. Croatia has continued to demonstrate progress on updating its The right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith judicial reform strategy and action plan, and it has also Vaz) might already know that we are discussing some continued to work on strengthening the protection of interesting proposals from Commissioner Füle, the minorities, with good progress on refugee returns. In Enlargement Commissioner, to develop a new approach support of an autonomously functioning stable judiciary towards enlargement that would seek deliberately to Croatia has, for example, made changes to its Conflict front-load some of the most difficult elements of an of Interest Act to depoliticise appointments to the accession negotiation precisely so that an accession supervisory boards of state-owned companies, as well state not only can implement challenging reforms, but as to membership of the conflict of interest commission has time to develop a track record so that we can see the itself, and that commission has already received 3,000 results of those reforms, rather than those being addressed Croatian officials’ declarations of assets. at the last stage of negotiations when questions are inevitably asked about whether the reform will be sustained Mr Hollobone: My hon. Friend mentions that progress over a long period of time. It is important that we learn on refugee returns has been good, but as I understand from experience. I do not want us to repeat in future it, Croatian co-operation has fallen some way short of cases the experience of Romania and Bulgaria. being full, because whilst the overall case backlog on outstanding refugee return issues has fallen by 10,000, The Commission’s report also noted substantial progress there were still 785,561 to go. Why is that good progress? in the fight against corruption, including continued It seems very small progress to me. political commitment and a number of further investigations launched and indictments and court rulings issued, Mr Lidington: I will move on to that in a moment, including at high levels. The most high profile case, the because we certainly agree that Croatia has a lot more trial of former Prime Minister Ivo Sanader for diversion to do. I do not pretend that everything is fine and of funds, opened in November this year. However, I dandy, because more needs to be done, but I am saying want to emphasise that the Government completely to my hon. Friend and to the House that Croatia’s accept that Croatia still has more to do. A number of continued progress since the closure of negotiations judicial reforms are still at a very early stage. The early this year encourages us to be confident in the long-standing issue of case backlogs in old civil cases political resolution of Croatia’s Government and opposition and enforcement decisions remains a problem, although parties to take forward compliance with European standards numbers have decreased. We will be looking for rapid with the necessary determination and speed. progress once the new enforcement law and public enforcement agency become operational in January 2012. Keith Vaz: I am grateful to the Minister, who is being extremely generous in giving way to so many Members. Although the handling of domestic war crimes cases One concern that we must address is the tendency for has improved, the issue of impunity needs to be thoroughly the focus from Brussels suddenly to disappear when a addressed. We welcome the adoption of a new strategy country joins the EU. A lot of time is spent negotiating on impunity that recognises the existence of uninvestigated the acquis, but once countries join no one seems to and unprosecuted crimes and the creation of new dedicated bother about them. Does he agree that it is important specialist chambers for war crimes trials. In June, criminal that the monitoring process continues even though those charges were raised in 84 such cases. Continued full countries are full members of the EU and that there co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal should be some kind of buddy principle that allows for the Former Yugoslavia is also particularly important. some countries to assist others in the process of fully We constantly stress that to Croatia and fellow EU integrating into the EU? member states and remain in contact with Chief Prosecutor Brammertz, whom I met a couple of weeks ago in the Mr Lidington: I recognise the right hon. Gentleman’s Hague, in order to ensure that we are fully up to date point, and describing it as a buddy system makes it with his thinking about the co-operation of the Croatian sound quite cuddly and attractive, but I would not want authorities with ICTY. 241 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights22 NOVEMBER 2011 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 242

[Mr Lidington] As the Minister has underlined, there is in the House a broad, cross-party consensus on enlargement. When We welcome the Croatian Parliament’s adoption on our party was in government, we supported the path of 21 October of a declaration on the promotion of European accession for the western Balkans, and we are pleased values in south-east Europe, which states a firm commitment that significant progress continues to be made. In effect, from Croatia that bilateral issues such as border disputes the progress is remarkable, given that it is only 16 years must not obstruct the accession of candidate countries since the signing of the Dayton accords, which put an to the EU from the beginning of their accession process. end to the worst outbreak of violence seen in Europe Britain has been helping Croatia to tackle many of since 1945. the concerns relating to outstanding reform. If the In the early 1990s, Yugoslav republics collapsed into House wishes, and I catch your eye, Madam Deputy war, with friends and neighbours pitted against each Speaker, I will be happy during the concluding remarks other in the name of ethnic and religious nationalism. to address that in more detail or to write to interested One of the principal objectives and greatest achievements Members. Bilateral assistance currently runs at nearly of the European Union has been to put an end to the £500,000 a year, carefully targeted in particular on some wars that wrought so much damage on Europe in the of the judicial and rule-of-law reforms where outstanding first half of the 20th century. It is therefore right that work is still needed. the EU should support the membership aspirations of In conclusion, Croatia has made great progress over the western Balkans, and we are proud of the fact that the course of its accession negotiations in meeting the under the previous, Labour Government, Slovenia joined rigorous closing benchmarks set for each negotiating the European Union and the negotiations that Croatia chapter. The United Kingdom was also successful in began made significant headway. securing robust pre-accession monitoring that will enable With European Union membership comes responsibility this House to maintain a close watch on the further for reform, however, and it is right that any discussion progress that we still need to see. It was on this basis of accession involves detailed and complex benchmarks, that the Government were able to agree to close negotiations so it is testament to the dedication and intellectual with Croatia and agree a target date of 1 July 2013 for rigour of the European Scrutiny Committee that it has EU accession. Croatia still has more to do over and concentrated on chapter 23, a highly important area above that required by closing benchmarks, but the where progress is vital. Commission has reported continued progress since the The Committee is right to stress, and the Minister closure of negotiations and we expect Croatia to continue also underlined, that lessons must be learned from the to make swift progress towards finalising its full alignment accession of Romania and Bulgaria. That experience with EU requirements before 1 July 2013. We have heard led directly to the introduction of the new chapter, from the Commission within the past few days that it which covers a range of areas, including the appointment will propose that the draft decision on Croatian accession and independence of judges and prosecutors, tackling will be agreed at the General Affairs Council on 5 December corruption, the protection of fundamental rights and, to enable the treaty of accession to be signed by heads importantly, Croatia’s co-operation with the International of state and Government at the European Council on Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia. Each 9 December. I shall be writing imminently to the European area is crucial to an effective, modern and democratic Scrutiny Committees of this House and the House of state that protects its citizens from discrimination and Lords to set out the Government’s approach to that roots out corruption. draft decision. While we were in government, we paid particular Croatia is a friend of the United Kingdom, but we attention to progress in that area. We also led the way in shall be a candid, honest friend, who will monitor closely putting pressure on the western Balkans to co-operate Croatia’s evolving track record and speak openly to our fully with the International Criminal Tribunal for the Croatian friends about the work that still needs doing. Former Yugoslavia. At that time, we were concerned We expect the Croatian Government to act rapidly to about the Croatian Government’s level of co-operation implement the remaining necessary reforms, and her with the ICTY, and we exerted pressure on them to find continued commitment to reform provides an excellent and release key military documents from the period in example to the other countries of the western Balkans question. in pursuing their European future. In April, former military commanders, Ante Gotovina Croatian accession will represent the achievement of and Mladen Markac, were sentenced by the court for an historic goal not only for Croatia, but for the European their role in the war. Their convictions are important Union. The enlargement process has encouraged and not only because justice has been done, but because it supported reform and transformation in Croatia, a sends a powerful signal to military commanders everywhere country now only a few small steps from being a fully that the international community can and will pursue prepared member of the EU. the perpetrators of war crimes. We now look to Croatia to take those last remaining We welcome the recent report of chief prosecutor steps, by which it will have fully met the strict requirements Brammertz, which states that the Croatian Government for entry to the European Union, and I commend the are providing “timely and adequate”responses to requests motion to the House. for witnesses and evidence, while expressing disappointment at the “limited progress”in locating the military documents 8.29 pm relating to Operation Storm. The Opposition place a Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): high value on Croatia’s continued co-operation with the I welcome the opportunity to debate Croatia’s accession ICTY. Engaging constructively with the court is a test to the European Union and, in particular, its progress of Croatia’s willingness to draw a line under its past and under chapter 23 on judicial and fundamental rights. to look forwards to a brighter future within the EU. 243 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights22 NOVEMBER 2011 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 244

We welcome the Croatian Government’s strategy, applicants. More progress on that issue is needed to adopted in February, for addressing impunity.In particular, provide assurances that the Croatian Government are we welcome the improvements in witness support and committed to honouring their pledges to refugees seeking the new legislation for four specialised war crime chambers. to return. Although Croatia has clearly made some progress in On another issue, a recent gay rights parade in Split investigating and prosecuting domestic war crime cases, was attacked and the police failed to protect those on considerable progress still needs to be made. the march. In winding up, will the Minister say whether Given that the strategy still needs to be systematically he has discussed that incident with the Croatian implemented, will the Minister tell the House in his Government, whether he is satisfied that freedom of winding-up speech whether he is satisfied that priority speech and expression can be secured, and whether is being given to the most serious war crimes cases? Are discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation is cases in which the alleged perpetrators were members of being tackled by the Croatian Government? the Croatian security forces being investigated and pursued? After the experience of the accession of Romania Are the Government assisting the Croatian Government and Bulgaria, we welcome the introduction of this new in that important area? chapter, as well as the introduction of a new monitoring We welcome the active role that Croatia is playing in mechanism. It is clear that once countries become EU regional co-operation. It is vital that Croatia maintains members, it is very difficult to apply pressure for good relations with its neighbours, and in particular we improvement and change, so the pre-accession period is welcome its support for the membership aspirations of incredibly important. Is the Minister satisfied that his other western Balkan countries. The visit of the Croatian Government, and more widely the EU, has sufficient President to Serbia and the Serbian President to Croatia leverage in the period between the signing of the accession marks an important step in the improvement of relations treaty in December and accession itself in July 2013? between the two countries. What more can the Government do to help Croatia It is vital that Croatia’s significant reforms on the deliver those changes? independence, accountability and professionalism of In conclusion, Croatia’s preparation for accession the judiciary are carried through. We welcome the new has been rigorous to date. Both the nature and number state school for judicial officials, which will recruit and of reforms introduced in a short period have been train judges and prosecutors. That is essential to ensuring impressive. However, in terms of chapter 23, it is evident that candidates are selected on the basis of merit not that Croatia still needs to demonstrate a track record on patronage. However, the new state school will not produce implementation and enforcement. We will continue to graduates until 2013. Has the Minister discussed that scrutinise the work of the Government and the European issue with his Croatian counterpart and is he satisfied Union in its monitoring of progress during the pre-accession that, prior to accession, Croatia will be able to push period. It is particularly important to monitor reforms forward in that area? with regard to the recruitment and independence of the In its most recent report on enlargement, the European judiciary and the measures introduced to tackle corruption. Commission states that there has been “substantial Following Slovenia’s accession and given the war that progress” on anti-corruption measures. It is, indeed, blighted the western Balkans in the 1990s, Croatia encouraging that a raft of measures have been implemented joining the EU will be an historic moment. Providing as part of the Croatian Government’s anti-corruption the reforms in this area are carried out and successfully action plan, including the introduction of a new police implemented, and providing that the House ratifies the Act to make the police more professional and, crucially, accession treaty of Croatia, we look forward to welcoming to depoliticise the force. A requirement for Government Croatia into the European Union. officials to register their assets has also been introduced. As the Minister said, it is promising that high-level corruption cases are being investigated, including the 8.39 pm case against the former Prime Minister, and that the Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): I accounts of the party of the current Prime Minister are should like to start by putting on the record my also being looked into. congratulations to Croatia on getting this far in its However, corruption is one of the areas of most process towards accession to the European Union. I am serious concern in this chapter. The Commission states a big fan of an expanded single market because I that more needs to be done to establish a track record in genuinely believe that it is in the interests of all EU the effective handling of organised crime and corruption member states. I share the relief of the hon. Member for and local and high-level corruption cases, including Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) that the cases related to public procurement and the judiciary. aspiration of Balkan countries to accede to the EU has Although it is clear that the Croatian Government are laid to rest some of the final outstanding issues relating seized of the importance of that issue, will the Minister back to the tragic war in the Balkans. That can only be reassure the House that he is confident that those good news. measures will be effectively implemented prior to accession? I want to make a few short remarks about procedures We welcome the recent comprehensive study and with regard to EU legislation generally and the motion subsequent action plan on the representation of national specifically. The European Commission’s assessment of minorities in the public sector in Croatia. However, as Croatian progress towards achieving its obligations under the European Scrutiny Committee and the hon. Member chapter 23 says: for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) have highlighted, there “Across the board an appropriate legal framework and the remains a substantial backlog of housing appeals from necessary implementing structures and institutions are generally those refugees wishing to return and fewer than half the in place, administrative capacity is being continuously strengthened available housing units have been handed over to successful and track records of results have been established or continue to 245 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights22 NOVEMBER 2011 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 246

[Andrea Leadsom] Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Lady must respond only with regard to Croatia. I hope that she will be developed, thereby ensuring the overall sustainability of reforms. not respond to the hon. Gentleman’s point about his Provided Croatia continues its efforts and meets the commitments party’s proposals for scrutiny. We are not discussing it has undertaken, further concrete results should follow.” that; we are discussing Croatia. That is two cheers, in a way. It is clear that Croatia is not there yet, but there is great hope that it will continue to Andrea Leadsom rose— make progress towards the date of its accession. There are all sorts of safeguards by which the EU could start Chris Heaton-Harris: Will my hon. Friend give way? to impose sanctions against Croatia if it does not continue in that work. It would be of enormous benefit to this Andrea Leadsom: I will give way to my hon. Friend. House if the scrutiny of such scrutiny were to take place more broadly within Parliament prior to coming to the Chris Heaton-Harris: Specifically in relation to Croatia’s Chamber for a debate on a specific motion. accession to the European Union, does my hon. Friend In its scrutiny of the proposals, the European Scrutiny think that it would have been helpful if the Foreign Committee concluded that Croatia still has a long way Affairs Committee had had purview over this matter so to go before it achieves the standards set by the Commission that an extra dimension could have been brought into and noted that Bulgaria and Romania have still not this debate? reached those standards since joining in 2007. Although, as my hon. Friend the Minister said, chapter 23 was Andrea Leadsom: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. introduced only in 2010, Bulgaria and Romania could That is the proposal that I wanted to put to the Minister. have been expected to have made further progress by The Foreign Affairs Committee might well have had a now, and there is still the question mark over whether useful contribution to make to this debate, as might the Croatia will make the necessary progress. Justice Committee. Specifically with regard to Croatia’s accession plans, there are issues with the European I am aware that my hon. Friend is looking at the arrest warrant, human trafficking, organised crime and general question of parliamentary scrutiny over legislation. so on. As has been said, there are concerns over the On 20 January this year, he said in a written statement accession of some European Union states where those to this House that EU scrutiny must be enhanced. problems have been prevalent. It therefore appears that Under the chairmanship of my hon. Friend the Member there might be some benefit if, rather than the current for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris), the Conservative situation where the European Scrutiny Committee is European research group wrote to my hon. Friend allowed to require or request that specialist Select about the need for enhanced scrutiny, particularly of Committees scrutinise particular legislation, there was EU legislation. a more proactive approach to asking specialist Select As a final addition to this little trio of ideas, yesterday Committees to look at legislation in cases such as this a group of us went to meet the British delegation of before they come to the Chamber. I hope that that point MEPs in Brussels, and they said that they find that the can be applied both generally and specifically to this other House is far better than this House at engaging debate. with EU legislation as it comes down the track. That is I will certainly support Croatia’s accession to the a great shame. European Union, but with the expectation that the Minister will look carefully at whether some assessment Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): The Liberal by Select Committees in advance of this debate might Democrats’ international affairs committee also wrote have given Members more to go on in deciding whether to the Minister on this subject. Would the hon. Lady we are taking a risk or not. support one of our proposals, which was for European prospective legislation and documents to be scrutinised 8.46 pm by the specialist Select Committees that we already have, as well as by the European Scrutiny Committee, Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): thereby allowing those with expertise in environmental I have been asked by the Chair of the European Scrutiny issues to scrutinise environmental legislation and so on? Committee to speak on behalf of the Committee. One reason for that is that the position of Opposition Members on this issue is the same as that of Government Members, Andrea Leadsom rose— particularly in the Committee. Some of us do take the trouble to read other Select Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. Committee reports. The Foreign Affairs Committee We are not discussing the broader question of scrutiny looked at human rights in the context of enlargement of all European matters. This is specifically a debate and it made some salient comments that I hope the hon. that is mainly about Croatia, and I therefore hope that Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom) the hon. Lady will now come back to that subject. She has taken the trouble to read. That work feeds in to the has got her point on the record, and so has the hon. work of the European Scrutiny Committee. We do not Gentleman. just live in a Euro-bubble, but look at broader matters. It might be helpful to the House if I put this matter in Andrea Leadsom: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. context by explaining its background and why the European I accept your guidance entirely. Nevertheless, I would Scrutiny Committee recommended that it should be just like to respond to the point made by the hon. debated on the Floor of the House, rather than leaving Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood). I do agree it to go to a European Standing Committee. We have that scrutiny, particularly of Croatia— always been concerned about the continuing trend, 247 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights22 NOVEMBER 2011 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 248 which the Government, despite their promises, have The Commission also believes that those countries do not reversed, of the European Committees not having not have a legal system that is capable of implementing permanent memberships. If their memberships were the law independently and efficiently. permanent, there would be at least be 13 Members With those mistakes having been made, and with the on three Committees—that is 39 people—who would Committee having followed the process very seriously, consistently take the trouble to look at European matters we did not want a post-mortem, but we wanted to have and build up a body of knowledge. At the moment, the assurances that those mistakes would not be repeated in Committee structure is such that people are put on the case of Croatia. That was why the new chapter 23 European Committees randomly. They mostly do not was introduced into the EU accession process, dealing turn up to the debates and do not gather the knowledge with the judiciary and fundamental freedoms. In the that they should have. summer of 2010, Croatia’s chapter 23 negotiations were The concern is that when Romania and Bulgaria finally opened. As the Minister put it then, agreement joined the EU in January 2007, it was recognised by was based on Members from all parts of the House that a number of “rigorous benchmarks in the areas we want”. good governance issues had not been addressed. The Before the chapter could be closed, that oddest thing was that the European Commission and the European Council decided that if those countries “comprehensive and robust set of benchmarks” did not get access in 2007, they would automatically get would need to be met, covering judicial transparency, access in 2008 and become full members of the EU. impartiality and efficiency; tackling corruption; protecting Basically, the incentive to continue progress, particularly minority rights; resolving outstanding refugee return in areas of good governance, ceased for Romania and issues; the protection of human rights; and, crucially, Bulgaria. full co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal The European Union therefore had to set up a for the Former Yugoslavia. Croatia would need to show co-operation and verification mechanism. The Minister a track record of implementation across all those areas, has described that as making the Romanians and Bulgarians to avoid the mistakes of Romania and Bulgaria. feel as though they were second-class citizens. The The common position that we are discussing tonight reality is that they should never have been citizens of is the European Commission’s assessment of Croatia’s the EU at all because they were not fit to be members. progress. It recommended that no further negotiations That is the truth of it. They had to be harried and were required, and underlined the importance of Croatia harassed to take the process seriously, and in fact at one continuing to develop a track record of implementation point the EU suspended the financing of one of those across the board. It was formally adopted—without countries and refused to allow it to spend any more EU discussion, I might add—at the July European Council. money. It got that bad. Nothing had really been done to I find it quite concerning that there was not in fact a improve the situation from 2007. fundamental and deep debate at the European Council A series of benchmarks were set under the verification about that assessment, because it shows that people mechanism to do with the judicial system—we are may once again be taking their eye off the ball. My talking about the judiciary today. In the case of Bulgaria, right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith there was the benchmark of tackling corruption and Vaz), the former Europe Minister, pointed out that once massive organised crime at the highest level of the countries are in the EU, it seems that the process of country. There were a number of contract murders—not vigilance slips away. It is worrying that that might be a couple, but 104 was the figure we heard when the happening in this case, if the Council cannot even Bulgarian Foreign Secretary came before the Committee. discuss such an important decision at its meeting. Those were organised killings by organised criminals. In endorsing the common position, the Secretary of Even now, neither country has reached the point at State for Justice and the Minister for Europe made which the European Commission is able to say that it much of the irreversibility of the process, and of the has what was, and still is, required. I will name those monitoring that would be undertaken during the two requirements for the record. The Commission does not years before Croatia could accede. I do not think the think that they have an EU’s record is quite so good that we can believe that the process is irreversible. “autonomously functioning, stable judiciary, which is able to detect and sanction conflicts of interest, corruption and organized I share the ambition for all the western Balkans to crime and preserve rule of law”. become part of the EU, and all the things that the That is its present position on Romania and Bulgaria, Minister has said about the benefits of that for trade, to different degrees in each country. Nor do those democracy and human rights are to be applauded and countries have worked hard for. However, Croatia has a border of about 1,000 km with other parts of the western Balkans. “concrete cases of indictments, trials and convictions regarding When I met the Serbians recently, and when I have met high-level corruption and organised crime”. people from Bosnia-Herzegovina and from Macedonia, We heard the feeble excuse from the then Foreign Secretary where I went with the Committee, they expressed deep of Bulgaria that Bulgaria had not actually convicted fears about what lies on their border and what is going anyone of any of the 104 killings because the criminals on in the rest of the area. When I met the Serbians, they had hired hit-men from Russia, who committed the pointed fingers at other countries, as did the Bosnians. crime, killed people and then went back to Russia, The reality is that this is a serious concern for anyone where they could not be found. That is a terrible indictment who is particularly worried about the ability of people of Bulgaria. It is in the European Union, but it has a to use Croatia as an access to Europe. It is one of the long way to go before it reaches the benchmarks that trade routes for human trafficking, for drugs and for the European Scrutiny Committee would have set for it. other matters that afflict the rest of the EU. 249 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights22 NOVEMBER 2011 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 250

Mr Hollobone: The hon. Gentleman has hit the nail quite clear that it is going for a 2011 accession and is on the head, because there will be a massive expansion determined to have it. No one seems to be demanding a of the common external frontier with Croatia’s accession, decent discussion in the European Council about that. as there was with the accession of Bulgaria and Romania. We are in the position at the minute where the Minister One of the biggest challenges facing the EU and the has said that he has secured improvements in the EU’s UK—this is where everybody comes, because London composition. I look forward to him putting his note in is the biggest, most cosmopolitan city in Europe—is the the Library and sending it to the European Scrutiny lack of border controls on the EU boundary. The Committee so we can see the detail, but he said basically demands on accession countries to have secure borders that “appropriate measures” proposed would be subject are far too weak. to qualified majority voting. Qualified majority voting Michael Connarty: I think what we have here is a means that any further measures can be agreed without question: should we fear accession and therefore lock anyone having a veto, so we are basically giving away countries out of the EU, or should we address that the final say in stopping the process by the date that has concern properly, so that we can welcome countries into been given—9 December. I hope people realise that that the EU but make sure that we give them the resources to is what the Government are doing. Any further measures secure those borders? I have recently been to Frontex can be completely and utterly forgotten about and we with the European Scrutiny Committee, and it says, can do nothing about it. The Committee felt that if this “Do not rely on Frontex to protect EU borders.” It is a was strong language, it strongly suggested that the deal small organisation that basically works on intelligence—it was already done, and that even if it was not, the has some quick reactive ability but not the massive lengthy and unproductive experience of the co-operation resources required. and verification mechanism in Bulgaria and Romania was hardly encouraging. We need to make sure that the Croatians are at one with us on this. We need to ensure either that they have The Minister for Europe said that chapter 23 was an the resources or that we give them the resources, so they alternative to the co-operation and verification mechanism, can make sure they have a secure border and can so I hope he will say a word or two about what happens protect themselves against worries of criminality coming if Croatia turns out to be another problem added to the into their territory, just like anyone in London or any EU rather than one that has solved its problems. I hope other part of the EU. that it has solved its problems. I have warm feelings towards the people I have met in the political class in The European Scrutiny Committee took the view that country who desire to be in the EU and to bring all that it is plain that Croatia still has much to do over the its benefits to their country, but we have to worry about next two years. If our ambition is to have Croatia in the things that are not, at this moment, quite as we would EU, we must ensure that we resource and support it. To want them in a full EU member state. have Croatia in and expand the borders without those protections leads to the criticisms made by the hon. All in all, there appeared to the Committee to be loud Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) and many ordinary and unwelcome echoes of those earlier accession processes citizens—that the more we expand Europe, the more we —chapter 23 notwithstanding—and further confirmation threaten to infect our security, human rights and peace. that what had been judged most important was not The reality is that despite four years of post-accession adhering to appropriate conditionality prior to accession. assistance and monitoring under the co-operation and We made that point again and again. If conditionality verification mechanism, the Committee is still looking was applied, it should be easily verifiable: when it is for that protection in respect of Bulgaria and Romania. reached, people should come in, but if it is not reached, We do not want to see Croatia added to that by not we should not simply hope that they will get there being properly resourced and supported. eventually after they come in. The Committee noted in particular that the process Although the eventual accession treaty will require the of systematically tackling war crimes appears to have approval of the House, the Committee felt that the House barely begun. Judging from the latest report by the chief should be given the opportunity now, at the beginning prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for of the process, to debate this issue, vital as it is to the the Former Yugoslavia, Croatian co-operation is still integrity of the accession process. I am sorry that so few some way off being described as “full”. Although the Members are taking part in this debate, because this is overall case backlog of returning refugees, which the the next major change to this Parliament’s relationship hon. Member for Kettering mentioned—I will cite the with the European process, and I would have hoped same figure he did—has fallen by a further 10,000, that more people would have come to air their views. some 785,561 cases are still to be dealt with, which is a Several hon. Members rose— massive way to go. In sum, the Committee said that a great deal of Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. I further implementation would need to be accomplished remind hon. Members that this is a timed debate that is by July 2013 if Croatia was to be able to demonstrate a due to end at 22 minutes past 9, and that I shall want to track record that indicated it was truly ready for accession. give a few minutes to the Minister to say a few words in I noted that the Minister said it looked as though the response. I ask Members to bear that in mind so that we final decision would be ready for signature on 9 December. can fit everybody in. It is a matter of concern when the European Commission gives itself a target. Early on, it was saying that the 9.1 pm earlier succession date for Croatia would be the end of 2011. It is determined to deliver that, regardless of Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): Although I concerns that might be expressed, so its promises will appreciate that as usual with these matters the accession turn into solid work and a fruitful result for the EU. It is of Croatia is essentially a done deal, I want to raise one 251 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights22 NOVEMBER 2011 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 252 or two concerns about the accession process and the Furthermore, I am concerned that yet another treaty consequences that agreeing to Croatia joining the European will be required to provide for the accession of a new Union will have on the United Kingdom. entrant to the European Union, for which we, the It is anticipated that the formal accession agreement United Kingdom, appear to be getting absolutely nothing will be signed at the European Council meeting scheduled back in return—and needless to say, without consulting for 9 December, but it appears that EU leaders are the British people. effectively taking it on trust that Croatia will complete the necessary preparations before it is formally allowed Martin Horwood: Does the hon. Gentleman accept, to join on 1 July 2013. As my right hon. Friend the however, that British exports to Croatia currently amount Minister said, however, Croatia needs to do a lot more. to some £283 million a year? In general, the experience Paragraph 7 of the explanatory memorandum, which with other acceding countries has been expanded trade quotes the Commission’s own assessment, spells out with those countries, which has helped British jobs, that further efforts are needed from Croatia in order to prosperity and economic prospects. improve the independence, impartiality, efficiency and professionalism of its judiciary, and that only if the Mr Nuttall: That may well be the case, but I see no commitments made by Croatia are met will that country reason why we could not have negotiated a free trade be ready. deal with Croatia many years ago. Indeed, the question could have been asked of the previous Labour Government: As the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk if Croatia has so much trade with this country, why did (Michael Connarty) spelled out in his clear speech, it is we not negotiate a free trade deal with it a long time obvious that whatever processes were in place when ago? Bulgaria and Romania were allowed to become members Let me quote what the Prime Minister said about of the EU, the checking mechanism in advance did not getting something back from accession treaties. In a work. Now, years later, there are still problems with speech helpfully entitled “A Europe policy that people those countries. It is to be hoped that the checking can believe in”, which he made a little over two years mechanism between now and July 2013 will be slightly ago, on 4 November 2009, when he was the Leader of more rigorous than it was for Bulgaria and Romania. the Opposition, he said that In principle, I have nothing against any country wishing “we will want to negotiate the return of Britain’s opt-out from to join the EU, if that is what the country and its people social and employment legislation in those areas which have wish, but I have concerns if the admission of a new proved most damaging to our economy and public service…We member state will adversely affect the interests of the will want a complete opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental United Kingdom. So far, I have seen nothing about how Rights.” much Croatia might contribute to the EU budget. Indeed, He added that an agreement would be negotiated some might be forgiven for thinking that Croatia’s “limiting the European Court of Justice’s jurisdiction over criminal accession will just mean the equivalent of yet another law to its pre-Lisbon level, and ensuring that only British authorities hungry mouth to feed. The European Commission has can initiate criminal investigations in Britain.” recently proposed the expenditure of an additional Crucially, he made it clear that ¤13.1 million to deal with Croatian accession, to be “we will propose that these British guarantees are added as spent on such things as Croatian translations and, of protocols to a future accession treaty,” course, opening a new office in Croatia. which is exactly what we are discussing this evening. I The accession of Croatia will mean that there will be know that our negotiating team will have been well over 4 million more citizens within the borders of the aware of those crystal-clear commitments. European Union. As we know only too well, following In closing, may I ask my right hon. Friend the Minister the accession of other eastern European countries to to confirm that those guarantees were proposed and to the European Union, a citizen of a member state has say what the response was? If they were not proposed, the right to take up employment in any other member why not? If they were proposed and the response was—let state. Once in employment, he or she has the right to me say—not entirely positive, did we indicate that we reside in that member state and is also entitled to would withhold our veto if our polite proposals were certain welfare provision. not granted? After all, article 49 of the Lisbon treaty—which was the reason why that speech was given in the first Mr Hollobone: Does my hon. Friend recall the difficulty place—which deals with accession treaties, specifically that Her Majesty’s Government are currently facing states that accession treaties deal with with European nationals coming to this country who “conditions of admission and the adjustments to the Treaties on are not seeking employment, but who declare themselves which the Union is founded which such admission entails.” to be self-employed and, through that mechanism, access It should be argued therefore that the granting of these benefits that Her Majesty’s Government give out? With British guarantees is something that the admission of 4 million new EU nationals effectively created by this Croatia entails: without them, the accession could not new accession, that is bound to add to the problem. take place, because Britain would use its veto.

Mr Nuttall: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that 9.13 pm intervention. He raises a problem that will only be exacerbated by the accession of Croatia. I would be Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): I shall try to grateful to know what specific transitional arrangements be brief. I do not think that the accession of a democratic are being put in place in respect of Croatian nationals NATO ally, which has had a democratic change of wishing to come to the United Kingdom and, in particular, Government and has been transformed as a country for how long such controls will be in place. over the last 11 years since the death of Franjo Tudjman— 253 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights22 NOVEMBER 2011 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 254

[Mike Gapes] interests of the development of case law and consistent judicial practice, and in view of wider public dissemination.” a country that is dynamic, that has young people who Well, the UK has a massive problem here. Many judgments are outward looking and want to be part of modern are not handed down by the judge— Europe, and a country that also has a very good football team and a manager in Slaven Bilic who once played for Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. West Ham United—is a country that should be held That is not relevant to our debate, which concerns the hostage for an internal debate in the Conservative party documents before us about Croatia. I would be grateful over Eurosceptic or Europhobic hostility. if, in the few minutes left to him that will enable the I believe that we should welcome Croatia. An enormous Minister to reply, the hon. Gentleman stuck to this transformation has taken place in the country over evening’s subject of debate. recent years, partly through its own efforts but also because of the aspiration to join the European Union. John Hemming: I think it important to examine the My hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow and East issues raised by chapter 23, however, and to compare X Falkirk (Michael Connarty) said some harsh things and v. Croatia with RP and Others v. the United Kingdom. some true things about what happened with Romania In the former case, a mother’s mental capacity was and Bulgaria, but I do not think that we should hold removed from her and she was told that she had no back Croatia on the basis that the country is like those locus in the Croatian courts. She had a second opinion, two other countries were in 2006. It is not. Croatia is which was taken through the whole Croatian court much more developed politically and in many other system. The domestic court system was involved in ways. It would not be right on account of some bad exactly the same way in the latter case, but the woman experiences before this new procedure was brought into had no second opinion. In my view, the Croatian system effect to damage the Croatian aspiration. is far better. I believe, too, that it is important in looking at these I highlighted the issue of judgments in the accession issues that we look at the context. We are not dealing document. There is also the question of the anti-corruption with Croatia alone. What we are doing is sending a clear commission. The document states: signal that it is not just Slovenia among the countries of “The EU also calls on Croatia to ensure full implementation of the former Yugoslavia that can join the European Union, its system for monitoring and verification of assets declarations as we are open to all the other five states—Serbia, of public officials and judges”. Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina and According to the Groucho Marx test, this is now a club Kosovo—and, indeed, to Albania. It has its own problems, that we would not be allowed to join, because we do not but if we are to have the western Balkans stable, secure operate that sort of system here. and developed with a community of trade and partnership, I think it complacent to assume that countries such all those countries have to be in the European Union at as Croatia are behind the United Kingdom. The chapter 23 some point. It would be very dangerous if there were a requirements have already pushed Croatia into doing hole in part of southern Europe, with a country or things that we do not do here. The hon. Member for several countries out of the political process, out of our Kettering (Mr Hollobone) may be pleased to find that politics and our pluralistic approach. in future years we might be expelled for not complying I say to the hon. Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) with the conditions with which Croatia complies, but I that the accession of Croatia will bring in a democratic, do not take the same view as him on the European pluralistic, young and dynamic country that wants to be Union. I think that extending the EU is a good idea. part of the modern European Union. The EU is still Most of the people who argue that we should leave it attractive to many people precisely because of that, and argue that we should be in the European economic area, it is time that Members of all parties started to make which allows freedom of movement throughout Europe. that case to the British public for the future. We need a I also disagree with the hon. Gentleman about whether dynamic Europe; we need to look at Europe as an asset people qualify for habitual residency as a consequence for this country, and we should stop getting obsessed of declaring self-employment, because I do not think and gazing at our own navel. that such a declaration qualifies people for habitual residency immediately. 9.14 pm I think that we should consider not just Croatia but John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): I aim whether we satisfy the conditions in chapter 23, but to be very quick. I found chapter 23 very interesting, as given that I cannot cite any examples of how we fail to it is the first time that that chapter has been used for the satisfy those conditions, I will leave that to the Minister. accession of a country. We have perhaps now hit the Groucho Marx threshold for Europe—that we would 9.16 pm not be allowed to join the EU because our standards are not high enough to do so. It is somewhat complacent to The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): I shall imply that the standards of our judicial system are not have time to respond to all the points that have been always higher than those in Croatia. I spent some time raised, but I undertake to write to Members who have comparing and contrasting the case X v. Croatia and asked detailed questions, and to place copies of the RP and Others v. the United Kingdom. If I have letters in the Library of the House. enough time, I will come back to that later. Many of the concerns that have been expressed about If we look through the document outlining the EU’s Croatian accession derive, understandably, from the response, we find the following statement: experience of Romania and Bulgaria, but I think that “The EU underlines the importance of Croatia improving there are important differences between the two instances. publication of and access to final court decisions both in the The earlier problems arose because difficult issues involving 255 Judiciary and Fundamental Rights 22 NOVEMBER 2011 256 justice were not tackled in a systematic manner, upfront, Daylight Saving Bill (Money) at an early enough stage in the accession negotiations. Queen’s recommendation signified The process that we are debating this evening was deliberately designed to enable us to learn from the failures of that experience. The decision that must be 9.21 pm made by the European council in December—this deals The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation with the point made by the hon. Member for Linlithgow and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): I beg to move, and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty)—is not whether That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Daylight to admit Croatia to the European Union immediately, Saving Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money but whether by July 2013, on the basis of the evidence provided by Parliament of— that we have so far and the intent declared by the (1) any expenditure incurred under or by virtue of the Act by a Croatian leadership so far, Croatia will be in a position Minister of the Crown or by a government department, and to move smoothly towards accepting all the responsibilities (2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable of EU membership. under any other Act out of money so provided. If I may, on behalf of the Under-Secretary of State Michael Connarty: Will the Minister give way? for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend the Mr Lidington: Very briefly. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr Davey), who is responsible for consumer affairs, I wish to pay tribute to Michael Connarty: Will there be a veto before 2013, my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point (Rebecca after December? Harris) for her tireless work on the Bill. I also thank her for working constructively on a number of proposed Mr Lidington: Between the signing of the accession amendments, which mean that I can now confirm the treaty and Croatia’s joining the European Union, we Government’s intention to support the Bill on an amended shall have the process of pre-accession monitoring that basis. I have described, as well as the three safeguard clauses The House last debated the Bill on 3 December 2010 that are written into the treaty and are powerful mechanisms when, despite the Government’s Opposition, it received for ensuring that Croatia continues to make the progress its Second Reading. Altering the clocks is something that it has promised. Finally, all 27 members of the that we have thought about long and hard, and, as the EU—including this Parliament—must vote to ratify Prime Minister has said, it is an issue that needs consensus Croatian accession, which in this instance means primary right across the country. The amendments that we are legislation. To inform its judgment on whether Croatia seeking address our earlier concerns, including on the has met the standards required, the House should have need for UK-wide consensus as to any change. Accordingly, access to the sequence of monitoring reports from the the Secretary of State will be required to consult the European commission and the reports from the chief devolved Administrations in Scotland and Wales, and prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for the to obtain the consent of the devolved Administration in Former Yugoslavia. Therefore, when this House takes Northern Ireland to any proposed trial. I wish to emphasise the decision on whether to ratify Croatian accession, it that the Government would not expect to introduce a will have available to it the evidence about the progress trial if there was clear opposition in any part of the UK. that Croatia has still to make. A further amendment we propose is that the “independent I believe that Croatian accession will provide enhanced commission” be changed to an “independent oversight economic opportunities for British business, as well as group”, whose role would be to advise the Secretary of for the people and businesses of Croatia, and the political State on the preparation of any report. gain of seeing an important country in the western Balkans brought firmly within a European political Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): The system based on the rule of law and democratic rights. Government’s interest in this legislation is welcome, We have seen too much bloodshed and warfare in the even if a little late and even if forced by a Division in Balkans to be content to shut them outside the door this House, which they opposed. Why has it taken them and see the problems of organised crime, people trafficking 11 months to bring this money resolution before the and illegal immigration persist indefinitely. The accession Chamber, given that the common practice in years past process is our best chance of getting those problems was that once the House had made a decision on the sorted to the benefit of us all. I believe that the way Second Reading of a Bill a money resolution would be forward is that accepted by the Government in June this introduced within two or three weeks? year, and I hope to have the support of the House. Mr Prisk: As I said, we wanted to make sure that we Question put and agreed to. gave this careful consideration, because this is a complex Resolved, matter. [Interruption.] I say to my hon. Friends that I That this House takes note of Unnumbered Explanatory have seen this matter brought to this Chamber four Memorandum of 7 July 2011, the European Union Common Position separate times in the 10 years that I have been in this on Judiciary and Fundamental Rights (Negotiation Chapter 23), House, so it is right that we give it due consideration. relating to EU enlargement: Croatia; and supports the Government’s decision to agree the Draft Common Position at COREPER on Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Will the 29 June and to adopt formally that agreed position at European Council on 12 July. Minister give way on that very point? Mr Prisk: Not at the moment, because I wish to conclude the point that I was in the middle of making—I hope that my hon. Friend will bear with me. As we intend to seek to amend the Bill, it would have some relatively small expenditure implications. Our rough estimate of 257 Daylight Saving Bill (Money)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Daylight Saving Bill (Money) 258

[Mr Prisk] Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Does the hon. Lady think that the benefits she has outlined the amount of expenditure that would be needed is a would be spread equally throughout all parts of the figure of up to £750,000, which we think would be for United Kingdom? the cost of researching and reporting on the potential benefits of trialling the advancing of clocks—that is Rebecca Harris: I do not know the answer to that obviously what the Bill seeks to achieve. Naturally, as it question, which is why I am calling for the Government is also fair to point out, a subsequent proportional to do a comprehensive review. The proponents of the report may well be required on the monitoring and measure tell me that the benefits would be spread evaluation of any such experiment. The Bill, in its equally throughout the United Kingdom, particularly current form, would be likely to involve somewhat more those on the road casualty figures. expenditure than that, and the production of a report within three months of an Act being passed may well Personally, I would try to claim that I am entirely add to additional costs. agnostic on whether we should advance the clocks, although some might not believe me. My primary aim However, I must emphasise to the House that there is throughout has been to advance the debate through a no guarantee that any trial advancement of the clocks review. The proposals in the Bill, or something similar, will happen. We cannot rush that decision. A considered have been debated in the House repeatedly over the process is required, the starting point of which—this is years. Some might say that the somewhat sterile arguments the essence of the point that has been rightly made—is that have been rehearsed again and again on both sides in there should be a proper robust assessment of the likely what seems a little like Parliament’s own Groundhog costs and benefits. On that basis, although the Government day. do not enter lightly into any expenditure, as I am sure you will understand, Madam Deputy Speaker, the This time, I am pleased to say, the debate has advanced expenditure in this case is justified and I commend the slightly further than usual, as the Bill passed Second motion to the House. Reading. I attribute that to the excellent support of the growing Lighter Later campaign in the country. The argument is also clearly less polarised than it used to be. 9.24 pm Organisations such as the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents in Scotland have called very strongly for Rebecca Harris (Castle Point) (Con): It will not come the measure and the traditional resistance of the farming as a surprise to anyone that I support wholeheartedly community also seems to have subsided. The National the Government’s request for money to be provided by Farmers Union Scotland now fully supports a study of Parliament in respect of the Daylight Saving Bill. First, I the potential change. want to put on record my great thanks to the 94 Members of Parliament from across the Chamber who voted in Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): support of its Second Reading nearly 12 months ago. I am most grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way and I As the Minister said, this has not been a time of am grateful that a Member of the Scottish National complete inactivity for the Bill. Negotiations have been party has finally got around to joining us—perhaps ongoing between me and the Department to find they are on a different time from us. I met NFU amendments that would allow the Bill to progress while Scotland very recently and it is clear that it supports not maintaining the spirit of the original. The Bill principally the idea of changing the time but a study to evaluate the provides for a robust Government study of the likely issues. Is the hon. Lady clear on that point? effects, good or bad, of advancing our clocks forward by an hour and whether the nation as a whole would be Rebecca Harris: I am entirely clear on that point and better served by that. Tonight’s debate reflects the fact that is precisely what my Bill intends to do. NFU that the Bill will cost the Government money, but the Scotland has also intimated that if the benefits in other potential benefits to the UK economy and the public parts of the country clearly outweighed the disbenefits purse could be enormous. to its members, it would not stand in the way. Proponents of the change argue that it could prevent In Committee, as the Minister mentioned, I and the more than 80 fatalities on the UK’s roads every year Minister responsible for the Bill will table a number of and create considerable economic benefits, including amendments that will give the relevant Departments 80,000 extra jobs and £4.5 billion in new domestic flexibility to minimise the financial burden of the Bill. tourism revenue alone. It might also reduce our heating They will also recognise our asymmetric devolution and lighting bills, which would be extremely welcome at settlement. The power to change time zones is devolved this time, increase participation in sport and recreation to only Northern Ireland and not Scotland and Wales, and help tackle our growing obesity epidemic, as the so the devolved Administrations will be consulted at recent report from the London School of Hygiene and every step, including being asked for evidence for analysis Tropical Medicine has suggested. It has also been that is specific to their geography and economy. The Bill argued that it could reduce crime and the fear of crime will not and was never intended to force time change on as well as improving quality of life, particularly for anyone without consensus in the UK as a whole. older people. Although it seems to have taken a surprisingly long If such a simple measure as not turning our clocks time for the Bill to reach this stage, I believe that the back one autumn could really achieve all those benefits, result will be a better and, I hope, more effective piece of I submit that it would be a scandal if the Government legislation, which recognises the concerns that the did not devote some resources—primarily civil service Government and others have had about it whilst retaining time and energy—to investigating it. and in some ways strengthening the analysis and available 259 Daylight Saving Bill (Money)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Daylight Saving Bill (Money) 260 evidence. Given the possible benefits that I and others that was from the Prime Minister down. I think this is have identified, I believe that the measure warrants the first occasion on which the House has been informed further investigation. I commend the motion to the that the Government now back the Bill on the basis of House. amended proposals in my hon. Friend’s Bill, which will now proceed to a Second Reading. 9.30 pm Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): I The Bill is not having a Second Reading. This is a rise to oppose the money resolution and I welcome this money resolution and the Bill has had its Second Reading. opportunity to state why I believe the Daylight Saving The content of the Bill has been discussed; this is a Bill is a complete misnomer. There is no daylight saving. money resolution to provide for a study. I have already All that is proposed in the Bill is that the hours of pointed that out to the House and to the hon. Lady and darkness be moved further into the morning. I am I would be grateful if Members would stay in order. responding, Madam Deputy Speaker, to the arguments that have been put by the Minister and my hon. Friend Miss McIntosh: I am most grateful for your guidance, the Member for Castle Point (Rebecca Harris). Madam Deputy Speaker. As a result of the money resolution going through this evening, the Bill will pass Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) to the Committee stage. Were the House to reject the (SNP): The hon. Lady makes the salient point that money resolution this evening, that would not prevent there will be no more daylight. What is actually happening the Bill from proceeding to Committee. It would allow is that people are being moved into the darkness. Clocks the Government to do a more thorough account of started off measuring time and ended up governing what the total costs would be. Perhaps the Minister people’s lives, and people are going to find—as they responding at the conclusion of this little debate will found 30 or 40 years ago—that they will be living their address my particular concerns about what the cost will lives in the early part of the day in darkness. When push be to local authorities in England. came to shove at that time, the vote in this House was We on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs 366 votes to 81. That was not just Scottish Members but Committee have called for evidence on the potential Members from all over the UK. Once they had experienced effects on rural communities and farms. The Minister it, they would not have it again. and the House will accept that it is all very well to consult the devolved Assemblies and Parliaments, as Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. the Minister informed the House, but remote areas such Perhaps it would be timely for me to remind the House as north Yorkshire, Cumbria, Northumbria and other that we are not debating the Bill itself or the merits of parts a long way from Essex and the south-east will not the Bill. We are debating a money resolution to commission have the opportunity to be consulted. a study that will look at the evidence. I will rule Members We had the trial from 1968 to 1971. It was resoundingly out of order if they try to re-debate the Bill. That is not rejected, as the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar the purpose of this money resolution. (Mr MacNeil) so eloquently stated, and I do not believe that there is any compelling argument for subjecting the Miss McIntosh: I simply submit, Madam Deputy country to a further trial when, as we understand from Speaker, in response to the points made by the Minister the Government and as I entirely accept, we are living and the promoter of the Bill, that there would be no through a time of economic crisis. Will the Minister benefits and that the cost estimate in the money resolution inform the House where the sum of £750,000 is proposed of £750,000 is a conservative estimate that covers only to come from in his departmental budget? the cost of the research. The Minister has not put to the House this evening what any potential costs to other Mr Dodds: The hon. Lady is making a number of Government Departments or local authorities would very good points. Is it not odd that after we have just be. It is disingenuous to say that it would not put lives at had a debate on the winter fuel allowance and been told risk to have darker, colder mornings and I regret that we that there is absolutely no money available to pay our are not having this debate on the money resolution in poorer pensioners to help them stay warm this winter, January or February when mornings are at their darkest. the Government are coming forward with £750,000 to It is true that the evenings are getting lighter in January fund a study on an issue on which they know there is no and February, but the mornings are most certainly consensus across the United Kingdom? getting darker. Miss McIntosh: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for making that point. I do not want to see a north-south Mr Bone: My hon. Friend is making a powerful divide on the issue. I want the people of north Yorkshire speech, and I agree that the Minister was woefully to feel that their voice is being heard—[Interruption.] lacking in not telling us what the full cost would be. The Scots are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves. However, does my hon. Friend agree that these are I shall leave time for colleagues to contribute. matters for debate in Committee and Third Reading and that it would be normal to let a money resolution 9.38 pm go through so that the debate in principle could occur elsewhere? Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): I shall keep my remarks brief as a number of Members Miss McIntosh: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for on both sides of the House wish to speak. making those points, but I have heard for the first time I am open-minded about what we do ultimately, but this evening that the Government support this Bill. My I have some questions on the money resolution that I understanding was that that was not the position—and hope the Minister can address. As my colleague, the Chair 261 Daylight Saving Bill (Money)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Daylight Saving Bill (Money) 262

[Thomas Docherty] £750,000 will be the total expenditure of all Departments, not just his own, and the devolved Administrations, and of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee that we will have a speedy and just resolution to the said, the Committee will shortly be taking evidence on issue. the merits and demerits of switching the start of the day. Do the Government propose to wait until the Committee has had a chance to consider the evidence 9.42 pm before embarking on a significant spend of money? Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Will the I see that the Under-Secretary of State, Scotland Minister in his reply say how much of the money that he Office, and the Minister of State, Northern Ireland has referred to relates to paragraph (1) of the motion Office, are present to hear the debate. I will not dwell on and how much relates to paragraph (2)? In addition, as why there is an Under-Secretary of State for Scotland has just been said, may we have the total cost, not just and a Minister of State for Northern Ireland. Do the the limited cost? Government expect the Wales Office, the Scotland Office I would normally argue that we should vote specifically or the Northern Ireland Office to incur expenditure as on the money resolution and how much it will cost the part of the consultation? Will the Minister also confirm Exchequer, and if this related to a Government Bill, whether any of the devolved Administrations—the Scottish that would be quite in order. But this relates to a private Parliament or the Welsh and Northern Ireland Assemblies Member’s Bill, and by tradition money resolutions —would be expected to incur costs as part of the automatically follow Second Reading. If a Member had consultation that would be ongoing? managed to overcome all the hurdles and get enough Members here to pass a Bill on Second Reading, which Mr MacNeil: If indeed there were any costs, surely if I would probably not have voted for, they should have this measure originated in Westminster, those costs the right to go into Committee, have the Bill debated should be met at Westminster. there and brought back to the House for a Third Reading, where, if Members so wished, they could defeat it. My Thomas Docherty: The hon. Gentleman teases me concern about this money resolution is the length of down an avenue which if I were to pursue and consider time that it has taken from Second Reading to come to why the Scottish Parliament would seek even more this House. It appears that we are looking at a new money from this place when it is more than amply procedure here, where the Executive are trying to block recompensed for the jobs that it is asked to do, you, Bills that they do not like. Apparently, they have now Madam Deputy Speaker, would robustly close me down. agreed changes to the Bill, so they like it, so they are I hope that the Minister can give some clarity. I hope bringing forward the money resolution. I believe that that he has also heard today that this is not a Scotland that is an abuse of Parliament. versus England issue, but an argument across all four nations of the United Kingdom. There is another private Member’s Bill, whose promoter is my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch Mr MacNeil rose— (Mr Chope), which has had its Second Reading, but it has had no money resolution, so it cannot get into Thomas Docherty: The hon. Gentleman was slightly Committee. Because of the way the Government late, but I appreciate that he was on different time. gerrymandered the number of days for private Members’ Bills in this Session, there is only one more private Mr MacNeil: I checked the clock; I was two minutes Members’Bill after this Friday.Unless the money resolution late. But the substantial point is that the hon. Gentleman is agreed tonight, there will be no chance for this Bill to is absolutely right. This is not a north versus south or get into Committee. an England versus Scotland issue. Indeed, I feel quite an English nationalist in the midst of this debate, having Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): My hon. to represent many of the good people of England who Friend says that there is no chance of the Bill getting lived through the experiment of the late ’60s and early through, but I know from a conversation I had earlier ’70s , and who write to me with their concerns looking this evening with my hon. Friend the Member for for a voice. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct Castle Point (Rebecca Harris) that, if the Committee when he says that this is not a north versus south or a stage cannot be dealt with by 20 January 2012, the hope Scotland versus England issue. is that another day will be made available for private Members’ business. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Very interesting. The hon. Gentleman should face the Chair Mr Bone: That is rather a surprise to me. I am now when he speaks so that I can hear him. However, I heard tempted to vote against the money resolution in order what he said and now that he has made his point I to allow another day for private Members’ Bills, but would like Mr Docherty to return to the money resolution. that would not coincide with my principles. What we must decide tonight is very simple. The money resolution Thomas Docherty: I am most grateful, Madam Deputy is not about the money that would be spent, but about Speaker, and I will stick to your guidance. whether there should be an almost automatic passage It is welcome that the Government are restricting the through the House for a private Member’s Bill that has total sum that they believe they will spend. However, I gone through Second Reading. What I am seeing tonight agree with the right hon. Member for Belfast North is an attempt to block that, and I do not like it. I do not (Mr Dodds) that it is interesting that this afternoon like the way the Government have used that to put Tory MPs voted against spending money on issues that pressure to change the Bill. The House should support really matter to people such as winter fuel payments. the money resolution, but I think that we should be Will the Minister give a guarantee to the House that wary of what the Government have done. 263 Daylight Saving Bill (Money)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Daylight Saving Bill (Money) 264

9.45 pm 9.48 pm Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con): It Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I wish to will take me less time to make my brief points that it speak to the money resolution because I am concerned takes to boil an egg. The argument is simple. It is about that we are seeing an abuse of the parliamentary process. how best to align our lives to maximise the benefits of It has been the tradition for many years in this place for daylight. For most of us our lives are not aligned in that a money resolution, which can be tabled only by Her way; we get up after dawn and go to bed much later Majesty’s Treasury, to be tabled within a fortnight or than sunset. three weeks of a Bill passing Second Reading, particularly a private Member’s Bill. What we are talking about is You spoke about studies, Madam Deputy Speaker. I private Members’ legislation, which is extremely precious conducted my own study when in opposition and to the individual Members concerned and very precious recommend to the House my leaflet, “Time to Change to the House as a whole. the Clocks”, which goes through the benefits of daylight The name of my hon. Friend the Member for Castle saving, particularly the studies that break down the Point (Rebecca Harris) luckily came up in the ballot, benefits across the country. There would be a benefit in she duly tabled her Bill and there was a most interesting shifting the clocks. It would provide more time after debate on Second Reading on 3 December 2010, when work and school have finished. I recommend to the despite the opposition of Her Majesty’s Government Minister and to the Bill Committee, if the Bill reaches the legislation was passed by 92 votes to 10. Committee, that that aspect be brought into the study. For example, an additional 175 hours of daylight would The context is that we are sitting through an extended be provided in Scotland if the clocks were moved— Session of Parliament. Instead of there being an annual Session, we have a two-year Session, so 40 private Members’ Bills should have been tabled, but only 20 have Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. been, because the Government have not allowed extra The hon. Gentleman is trying to be very ingenious in Friday sittings on which to table extra Bills. There has getting back to the main points of the Bill in a debate been only one ballot for private Members’ Bills, in on a money resolution. He said that he would make his which my hon. Friend was lucky to be successful, so points briefly. We are talking about the money resolution private Members have had a reduced opportunity to and the study. Can we concentrate on that and not table legislation. re-enact the debate on the Bill itself? I contend that the Government have used the extra time in the Session to delay the passage of my hon. Mr Ellwood: I give way to the right hon. Member for Friend’s Bill, because it is now almost a full year since Belfast North (Mr Dodds). that Second Reading debate. My hon. Friend the Minister’s answer to my earlier intervention was not good enough, because the Government should not use this delay in Mr Dodds: I was going to invite the hon. Gentleman tabling the money resolution to sort out their attitude to return to the money resolution and address the to any particular Bill; they should table the money points that have been made by others on that, which I resolution to go along with the will of the House as am sure he will now do. expressed on Second Reading, and then sort out their attitude to the Bill prior to Committee. Members may Mr Ellwood: I have now been advised to do so twice, not appreciate that a private Member’s Bill cannot so I will heed that advice. I am pleased to support the proceed to Committee unless the money resolution is Bill. This is the furthest the proposal has ever got in passed, so the Government are using that device to Parliament since the original daylight saving experiment delay the progress of the Bill. in the 1970s. I should add that that experiment was Mr Nuttall: Is it not the case that, if this Session had overturned not because the nation did not want it. The been of normal length, the Bill would have already fallen? polls at the time were very much supportive of it. It was overturned because the farmers of the day— Mr Hollobone: That is absolutely right, and my hon. Friend makes an extremely perceptive intervention. In Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman fact, the Government have used a whole year of this will resume his seat. I cannot understand what is two-year Session to delay the Bill, thereby denying the complicated about this. We are dealing with a money House the scrutiny it needs to improve legislation. I resolution and I would appreciate it if Members stuck cannot understand why the Government are so frightened to that. Mr Dodds, I do not need any help and can of scrutiny, because the better that Back Benchers do manage it. Mr Ellwood, would you now refer to the their job, the better the legislation, and the better the money resolution and not to previous polls or debates reputation of the Government of the day. unless they relate specifically to the money being spent? Mr MacNeil: Is the hon. Gentleman saying essentially that we should not be here tonight talking about the Mr Ellwood: I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker. Bill, because it should have been dead and buried in the This is one of the subjects that people get very passionate past year? about, which is why there is a tendency to wander off the subject. I will complete my contribution by Mr Hollobone: That could have been an outcome, congratulating my hon. Friend the Minister on bringing absolutely. We should not be here tonight, because we this motion forward and hope that it will receive the should have been here almost exactly a year ago. That is support of the House today and the Bill will move on to when the Government should have tabled this money Committee. resolution; then, the Bill would have proceeded into 265 Daylight Saving Bill (Money) 22 NOVEMBER 2011 266

[Mr Hollobone] are the Government using money resolutions to delay the passage of Bills when they should be allowing the House to Committee; and on one of the subsequent private Members’ pass money resolutions at an early stage? The Government Fridays the hon. Gentleman and I could have debated can then come back in Committee to debate the merits its merits and demerits. The law would have been either and demerits of the Bill. Would that not be a far better passed or not by this stage, but Her Majesty’s Government way for legislation to proceed in this place, rather than have effectively taken a whole year out of the process, the abuse of the system that we are witnessing? meaning that the legislation is right up against the wire. There is a private Members’ Friday this coming Friday, 9.57 pm but then there is only one other such Friday, 20 January Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): First, I 2011. The passage of the money resolution tonight congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Castle means that there will not be time for the Bill Committee Point (Rebecca Harris) on her perseverance and to sit before this Friday, so if the Bill is to go through determination in pursuing this matter over the past 12 Committee the only remaining Friday on which it can months—and, indeed, during the period before she was return to the House is 20 January. On that day, it will drawn fourth in the ballot. need to complete its Report and Third Reading if it is to make any progress, meaning that its subsequent passage I do not want to detain the House long. I am conscious through the House of Lords will be squeezed between that there is not a great deal of time left and that we the end of January and the beginning of April. That is all want to hear from the Minister. Although I voted going to be a rushed process if the Bill is to succeed. against curtailing the Second Reading debate—and I remind the House that it was curtailed—I did vote for My simple contention is this: whether someone is for the Bill to proceed on Second Reading. I, along with or against the Bill, if the time and scope for the scrutiny many others—indeed, millions of people outside the of any legislation is reduced, it will probably not be as House—have been waiting for the money resolution good as it otherwise might have been. There is absolutely finally to move its way up the Order Paper to be debated. no need for this process to have taken so long. I simply do not understand why it has taken Her Majesty’s On the issue of money, may I ask the Minister to Government almost 12 months to make up their mind— explain in his winding up whether the figure of £750,000 indeed, to change their mind—on the merits of this Bill. is an estimate? If so, what is that estimate based on? What analysis has been made of the cost of the trial Mr MacNeil: Is the hon. Gentleman saying that the that was held back in the 1970s, and how that has been Bill of the hon. Member for Castle Point (Rebecca used to inform the present-day estimate? In addition, Harris) has, in effect, been destroyed because of the has any assessment has been made of whether any work time that has been taken away from the consideration of that was done at that time is still of value today? I it and the fact people will not have the opportunity to reiterate the points made by the hon. Member for consider it? Is he also saying that there is a great danger Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) on how the Bill will not become law and, as a result of the the cost of the trial is to be split between England, Government’s actions, the Bill has been utterly destroyed? Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Mr Hollobone: I do not think the Bill has been Finally, in the seconds remaining, I point out that, destroyed because it still has a chance of passing through with inflation running at 5% and an estimated cost of both Houses. The point I am trying to make is that if it £750,000, the delay has already cost £37,500. I look forward does succeed in becoming an Act, it will only be by the to hearing the Minister’s response to those questions. skin of its teeth because there effectively is only one more sitting Friday for private Members’ Bills in this 9.59 pm place. Mr Prisk: With the leave of the House, Madam Mr MacNeil: Therefore, if it is not utterly legally Deputy Speaker. On the money, £750,000 is the estimate destroyed, it is morally destroyed. that I made clear in my opening remarks, and that is the figure that relates to the benefit analysis with this motion. Mr Hollobone: It has certainly not been the best use I believe that the motion should be supported by the of parliamentary time in making sure that, as a piece of House. legislation, the Bill is as good as it could be. I am very Question put and agreed to. worried that the Government are setting a precedent to abuse the private Members’ process because, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) Business without Debate said, another Bill has passed its Second Reading in this place. The Local Government Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill was passed on a private Members’ sitting Friday on DELEGATED LEGISLATION 10 June. The will of this House was that that Bill should Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing have its Second Reading, but here we are five months Order No. 118(6)), later and the Government have not yet moved a money resolution for that Bill. REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE That the draft Parliamentary Constituencies and Assembly Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): The hon. Gentleman has Electoral Regions (Wales) (Amendment) Order 2011, which was spoken for eight minutes. Is he determined that the laid before this House on 24 October, be approved.—(Stephen Minister will not be able to respond to his comments? Crabb.) Mr Hollobone: No. I am about to resume my place Question agreed to. because I want to hear the Minister’s response, and I Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing particularly want to hear him address this point. Why Order No. 118(6)), 267 Business without Debate22 NOVEMBER 2011 Business without Debate 268

ENERGY PETITION That the draft Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme Regulations 2011, which were laid before this House on 24 October, be Boundary Changes (Edmonton) approved. —(Stephen Crabb.) Question agreed to. 10.1 pm Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): I am pleased to present—[Interruption.] EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENTS Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. Order No. 119(11)), Perhaps, Mr Love, you could resume your seat so that we can wait until Members have left the Chamber SCHENGEN GOVERNANCE quietly. That this House takes note of European Union Document No. 14357/11, a Commission Communication: Schengen governance— Mr Love: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. strengthening the area without internal border control, No. 14359/11, I am pleased to present this petition on the new a Draft Regulation amending Regulation (EC) No. 562/2006 in boundaries for the Edmonton constituency.My constituents order to provide for common rules on the temporary reintroduction are outraged that the boundary commissioners have of border control at internal borders in exceptional circumstances, No. 16664/10, a Draft Regulation on the establishment of an ganged up on Edmonton, proposing changes that try to evaluation mechanism to verify the application of the Schengen cross the natural barrier of the River Lee, which is over acquis, No. 14358/11, an amended proposal for a Regulation on 1 mile wide in parts and separates the two distinct parts the establishment of an evaluation and monitoring mechanism to of the new constituency. There are no direct transport verify the application of the Schengen acquis, and No. 14142/10, a links across the new constituency, and this undermines Draft Council Decision on the full application of the provisions of existing community ties. My constituents are petitioning the Schengen acquis in the Republics of Bulgaria and Romania; the House to make time for a debate on the proposed and supports the Government’s approach for stronger governance changes to the boundaries of the constituency of of the Schengen area whilst safeguarding the Member States’ primary responsibility in matters of internal security, securing an Edmonton. effective evaluation and monitoring mechanism which includes Following is the full text of the petition: the UK in respect of Schengen provisions in which the UK takes [The Petition of residents of Edmonton and others, part, and supporting the accession of Bulgaria and Romania to the Schengen area as they have met the criteria and standards Declares that the Petitioners are opposed to the proposed required of them under the terms of their Acts of Accession.—(Stephen boundary changes put forward by the Boundary Commission Crabb.) for England in relation to the constituency of Edmonton, The Deputy Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the as the Petitioners believe that the proposed changes will Question being challenged, the Division was deferred until undermine existing community ties and declares that the Wednesday 30 November (Standing Order No. 41A). Petitioners believe that the integrity of Edmonton should be maintained through links with other adjacent communities. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE (29 NOVEMBER) Commons urges the Government to make time for a Ordered, debate on the proposed changes by the Boundary Commission for England to the constituency of Edmonton. That on Tuesday 29 November the House shall meet at 11.30 am and references to specific times in the Standing Orders of this And the Petitioners remain, etc.] House shall apply as if that day were a Wednesday.—(Stephen Crabb.) [P000984] 269 22 NOVEMBER 2011 Immigration (Stranraer/Cairnryan) 270

Immigration (Stranraer/Cairnryan) Ireland, Phil Taylor, who admitted in a letter to the Scottish Government’s Justice Secretary that the cuts at Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House the Galloway ports were due to the do now adjourn.—(Michael Fabricant.) “government’s requirement to bear down on the cost of the public sector”. 10.2 pm It is pertinent to note that the view of my hon. Friend Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): I the Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch was am pleased that I have managed to secure this debate based on witnessing at first hand the difficulties at the this evening. That said, I am disappointed that it has ports. The decision to terminate the UKBA funding at needs this action to try to secure answers from the the ports was decided without anyone having the decency Minister. That, along with a number of freedom of to visit the facility to witness how the system operated. information requests, has meant I have had to bring my In fact, no Minister, not even the Under-Secretary of concerns to the Floor of the House. State for Scotland who represents part of the region—I appreciate the fact that he has turned up this evening—has My concerns are about one of the most irresponsible visited the Galloway ports, despite imposing major cuts cuts this Government have imposed—the withdrawal of on them. UK Border Agency funding from the police ports unit protecting the Galloway ports in my constituency. At I come now to the point made by my hon. Friend the the end of this week, I will be attending the official Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas opening of Stena Line’s new terminal building on Loch Docherty). It is worth mentioning the role of the SNP Ryan. This has replaced its old base in the heart of Scottish Government in this. Although they have been Stranraer, where ferries have crossed the Irish sea for quick to join the chorus of criticism of the UK 150 years. There is also a ferry port operated by P&O Government’s cuts, they themselves cut the equivalent just a few miles further round the loch, in the village of of 14.5 officers from the ports unit over the previous Cairnryan. couple of years. The crocodile tears from the Scottish Justice Secretary, Kenny MacAskill, who visited the The Galloway ports are the second busiest ports in ports to discuss security issues yesterday, are shameful the UK, and they have more immigration issues than in the extreme. The truth is that the Galloway ports anywhere else in Scotland. Even though they are entry have suffered from a double whammy of cuts, first from points to the UK mainland, they are internal ports and the SNP Government in Edinburgh and then from the a well-known route for illegal immigrants seeking to Conservative-led coalition Government. gain access, and for organised criminals to smuggle contraband goods or illegal drugs. It is well recognised Today I call on the UK Government to consider that those last issues were a regular source of funding either reinstating the UKBA financial support to the for terrorist activity in the past. Dumfries and Galloway ports unit or providing UKBA staff at the ports. The case is overwhelming and I want The chief constable of Dumfries and Galloway to highlight three areas. First, the Government must constabulary has described the ports as a take heed of their own national security strategy, which “nexus point for illegal immigration”. identified a “significant increase in the levels of terrorism relating to Northern Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): Ireland” My hon. Friend has been a champion for Dumfries and as a tier 1, or priority, risk to the country. It makes no Galloway for the 13 or 14 years that he has been a sense to recognise an increased threat and then to Member. I am disappointed that not a single Scottish essentially downgrade the security at the route on to the National party Member has bothered to come to support mainland through the Galloway ports. his case tonight. He has mentioned the chief constable. Will he say whether there have been any further cuts Secondly, Dumfries and Galloway constabulary has recently to the number of police officers in the region, revealed that the scale of the illegal immigration is from which the ports might have suffered? worse than had been measured previously. Indeed, a UKBA study earlier this year found that the number of illegal immigrants detected at the ports had rocketed by Mr Brown: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. 65% since the previous year. The Government clearly I will come on to that point. decided to cut the resource based on an estimation of The chief constable’s comments did not stop the the number of illegal immigrants passing through the Government deciding last summer completely to withdraw ports. Surely the Minister must concede that if the facts the UKBA funding that paid for three officers in Dumfries change, so must the conclusions. The most recent figures and Galloway police’s ports unit. That funding had been show that the number of immigration cases between 1 put in place in 2006. A former Home Office Minister, September and 10 November increased by 20% compared my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and to the same period last year, and that whereas in the Shoreditch (Meg Hillier), visited the Stena facility with past one in every six people who were stopped were me early last year and agreed that we needed to increase non-EU citizens, that has now increased to one in five. the resources to ensure security. She was astonished by Thirdly, the cut at the Galloway ports was made with what she witnessed. the assurance that greater effort would be put in at the Just a few weeks after the general election, the position Northern Ireland end. That approach has so far failed. was turned on its head and the Government announced In September, Dumfries and Galloway police told me the complete withdrawal of the UKBA funding. Clearly that what had changed was that the Government had embarked “a lack of checks/coverage at the Northern Ireland side…has led upon deep cuts, whatever the price. That was confirmed to more offenders getting through the Northern Ireland ports by the UKBA’s regional director for Scotland and Northern undetected.” 271 Immigration (Stranraer/Cairnryan)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Immigration (Stranraer/Cairnryan) 272

It is clear that the UKBA failed properly to plan how Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I, too, congratulate the ports would cope with the withdrawal of the funding the hon. Gentleman on bringing this matter to the support. New procedures came into place only in September Chamber tonight. Obviously Stranraer and Cairnryan this year, 10 months after the cuts. That should have are critical, but there also has to be a domino effect. been done before any decision was taken but it was not, Perhaps it is time to go back to where people come in. because the cuts were rushed through in a matter of Does he feel that the Minister should consider how he weeks. The consequence is that the Government not can curtail immigration from the Republic through to only reduced security at the ports but left us exposed for Northern Ireland and into Scotland? almost a year as they decided how to try to compensate for that. Mr Brown: I thank the hon. Gentleman. There is no doubt that there appears to be a weak link, because Mr David Hamilton (Midlothian) (Lab): I thank my people can get easy access to Northern Ireland. People hon. Friend for introducing this debate, especially following can get on a bus in Belfast, and the next stop could well last week’s debate on immigration. Is it not the case that be Birmingham or London. It is as simple as that. The the Government did not understand, and still do not Immigration Minister told me in correspondence that it understand, the importance of people coming into the would be too expensive to find out how many illegal UK from Ireland, and how easy it is to do that? Will immigrants had absconded on their way to a UKBA that situation not be exacerbated at the new terminal, office. How on earth can the Government make those which is expected to take in far more people through cuts and then not monitor the effectiveness of the that same gateway? Unless the number of staff there is processes in place? increased, there will be a real problem in future. Dumfries and Galloway police have told me of an Mr Brown: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. alarming case of two illegal immigrants. They were As I said earlier, the previous Immigration Minister detained in Belfast overnight and told to report to the came to see the site and was quite shocked by what she UKBA the following morning, but instead were detected witnessed. My plea all along has been that before the disembarking at Stranraer after crossing on the ferry. Government withdraw the funding, somebody should Despite flouting the rules once, the only course of come to have a look. According to Stena’s figures, we action available to the local police was to release them are expecting a potential 50% increase in traffic. Thankfully, with instructions to attend the UKBA office in Glasgow. the Scottish Government Justice Minister has decided As the police said: that he will look favourably on another four officers, “Do we honestly think, given this course of conduct, that they but that will simply take us back to a situation that the would have any intention of attending?” chief constable sees as having been sustainable; it does The Minister needs to tell us why he is not doing not take account of the additional traffic that there anything to close this massive loophole in our border will be. security. The Government have turned a blind eye throughout to worries about security at the ports. The Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): I congratulate Prime Minister told me during Prime Minister’s questions the hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate. on 24 November last year that he would As well as the issue of terrorism, does he accept that “look very carefully…to make sure that the system is working.”— there is great concern in Northern Ireland about the [Official Report, 24 November 2010; Vol. 519, c. 260.] fact that people can so easily enter the Northern Ireland part of the United Kingdom across the border with no Perhaps the Minister will clarify whether the Prime real check, as a result not only of cuts but of a deliberate Minister followed that up, or whether, as I suspect, they policy? were nothing more than empty words. In a letter to me dated 4 January this year, the Mr Brown: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his Immigration Minister promised personally to review intervention and his concern. This is a serious issue, and the security arrangements at the end of February. Perhaps I hope that even if the Minister cannot give us answers he could tell me today what he found, because I can find this evening, he will give the matter serious consideration no record of his review. The only study of the arrangements and take the time to come to have a look at what we are since the Government’s cut was carried out by the experiencing. UKBA and published in August this year. The scope One of the most damning aspects to emerge from the was extremely narrow, and Dumfries and Galloway situation is the revelation that no one has any idea how Police have confirmed that there was no contact from many illegal immigrants simply disappear after being any Government Minister. Both the Prime Minister and stopped at the ports. The police have no authority to Immigration Minister promised me they would look at seize and arrest any of them. Two weeks ago the Home this issue personally. To the best of my knowledge, Secretary was under fire for immigration failings over neither has done so. I hope the Minister will today the summer. The scandal is that she has known for more commit to a full independent review of the arrangements than a year that there is no way to keep track of illegal in place at the Galloway ports. immigrants entering through the Galloway ports, and The Government’s first duty is to the safety and she has not done a thing about it. security of citizens. The removal of financial support Upon detecting illegal immigrants at the ports, Dumfries for ports police from Galloway ports is putting that at and Galloway police issue them with an instruction and risk simply to save money. The Minister has serious an appointment to appear at a UKBA office in Glasgow questions to answer today. Will he tell us why he ignored or Manchester. They then release the offenders, in the the concerns of Dumfries and Galloway police and pressed hope they will keep their promise. That is shockingly ahead with that irresponsible cut? Is he still unable to lax. If someone has entered the country illegally, are tell the House how many illegal immigrants disappeared they really going to hand themselves in the next morning? following release after detection at the Galloway ports? 273 Immigration (Stranraer/Cairnryan)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Immigration (Stranraer/Cairnryan) 274

[Mr Russell Brown] course, I recognise the importance of that, and we are working hard to ensure that the CTA becomes a stronger Given that we are just scratching the surface of the border area as a whole. illegal immigration problems at the ports, will the I recognise that we are in difficult economic times Government concede that the case for the reversal of and that changes to the structure of the UKBA may the cut in UKBA funding is now overwhelming? I look have been unwelcome to the hon. Gentleman. His concerns forward to hearing what he has to say. about last year’s decision to remove UKBA police funding to Stranraer and Cairnryan have been noted—he has 10.17 pm made them clear in the intervening months—and we appreciate the impact that it has had on the Dumfries The Minister for Immigration (Damian Green): I and Galloway constabulary. As he made clear, however, congratulate the hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway that came with a much greater reduction in funding (Mr Brown) on securing this debate. I know how strongly from the Scottish Government of the force’s counter- he feels and I will deal with the specific matter of the terrorism work. common travel area and Ireland in a minute. However, I Dumfries and Galloway is Scotland’s smallest police must first tell him that it is slightly bizarre for him to say force. I know that Chief Constable Pat Shearer has that he was expecting a review, that a review was done made his concerns public, as the hon. Gentleman said. by UKBA, and that that somehow had nothing to do Pat Shearer said last September that cuts in staff numbers with me. I am the Minister responsible for UKBA, so if meant that the force was going it does a review, it has something to do with me. That is how these things are done. “closer and closer to the bone”, and he believed that there was a limit to how far cuts to Mr Brown: Will the Minister give way? the constabulary could go without adversely affecting police performance. Damian Green: I am sorry, but the hon. Gentleman As we all know, policing in Scotland and its funding overran his time slightly, so I will not be able to take are devolved matters. The police have a duty to uphold interventions from him—he has had a good go. and enforce the law and maintain the peace in Scotland. As I am sure the hon. Gentleman recognises, and as I Dumfries and Galloway constabulary, like other forces need to make explicitly clear, Stranraer and Cairnryan across the UK, carries out a range of work, and it is its are domestic ports. Those western Scottish sea ports are decision—the chief constable’s decision—how its prioritises not designated ports within the meaning of immigration and manages that work. The UKBA officials work with legislation. They are not international ports of entry it to tackle irregular migration. Like the Dumfries and such as Dover. The ferry routes between Northern Galloway constabulary, the UKBA must spend public Ireland and Scotland are domestic UK services. Legally money carefully. The agency therefore took the decision and in immigration control terms, they are no different to realign its deployment of seconded police. That from ferry services between the Scottish mainland and decision affected seconded officers throughout the UK. the western isles or between Hampshire and the Isle of It was reasonable for the hon. Gentleman to ask what Wight. There are no international passenger services changed. When the UKBA began funding police officers between Stranraer or Cairnryan and any foreign country. in Stranraer, it had a limited presence in Northern We must be clear that we are talking about people Ireland. At that time, officers had to be deployed from moving within the UK; we are not talking about people other areas to conduct operations in Northern Ireland. coming into the UK. In July 2009, the agency formed a new local immigration I am sure that, beneath the rhetoric, the hon. Gentleman team in Belfast. From its offices in Drumkeen house, recognises that it would be wholly inappropriate to the UKBA now conducts a wide range of immigration introduce passport controls at domestic UK ports. Northern services. A key part of that is tackling immigration Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. Journeys within crime. The UKBA therefore has more officers than ever the United Kingdom are not subject to border controls, before on the ground in Northern Ireland tackling and nor should they be. Our intelligence shows that the irregular migrants. route is subject to abuse. The UKBA knows that some The UKBA operates right across the United Kingdom, come here with the intention of flouting the immigration so it is right that we consider where best across the UK laws, and that those here illegally deliberately move to place our resources to tackle illegal immigration. around the UK to avoid detection. That is why we work Tackling abuse of the immigration system is fundamental closely to clamp down on those who come here and to the work of the UKBA, and our enforcement work abuse the system. produces real results. This year, a targeted summer The UKBA works closely with the police in Dumfries campaign involved more than 600 operations across the and Galloway, and I welcome that close working country resulting in 557 arrests. Some 65 prosecutions relationship. The agency is also working closely with the have been initiated so far, and there have been 22 successful Irish Garda to tackle people who start in the Republic prosecutions. of Ireland and then try to enter Northern Ireland I shall touch on specific examples of immigration illegally. Relations with the Republic of Ireland are enforcement work at the western Scotland and Northern strong. Together we are working to secure and strengthen Ireland ports. In September, an immigration fraudster the whole of the common travel area and to narrow the was jailed for 18 months after being caught with a opportunities to exploit it, as well as reinforcing the excellent bundle of fake identities. Fayyaz Ahmed was arrested at co-operation that already exists between the UKBA Belfast docks in February while trying to get on the and the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service in Belfast-to-Stranraer ferry. He was found to have three relation to the protection of the common travel area. Of computer memory sticks and two mobile phones containing 275 Immigration (Stranraer/Cairnryan)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Immigration (Stranraer/Cairnryan) 276 more than 700 false and fraudulently altered identity the real problem people coming in from the Irish Republic? documents. His case, which involved a sophisticated There are checks at the border at the ports and the criminal operation, underlines what we all know: that airports, but what about the illegal immigration into some migrants will seek to abuse our immigration controls. Northern Ireland? What is being done to tackle that It also highlights the importance of the work that our problem? team on the ground in Northern Ireland does. Intelligence shows that the majority of illegal migrant Damian Green: The right hon. Gentleman makes a traffic comes from the Republic of Ireland through perfectly reasonable point. I am in close negotiations Northern Ireland, and then on to Scotland. It therefore with my Irish counterpart to ensure that the common makes sense to transfer the responsibility for identifying travel area becomes more effective, as I have explained. those illegal migrants to the border agency’s local We need to help the Irish Government to strengthen immigration team in Northern Ireland, where UK Border their border, because, as we are in a common travel Agency staff replicate the work already done at the area, to some extent their border is obviously our Northern Irish airports. The agency has more substantial border. The closer we can co-operate and the stronger resources on site in Northern Ireland, which is more we can make that border, the better it will be. conveniently located to service the ports and enable the Let me demonstrate what has happened. If we look agency to be more operationally effective. The UK at UKBA work, as seen in the review into working Border Agency’s immigration officers in Northern Ireland arrangements, we find that impressive results have been therefore check the status of passengers arriving from produced both in Scotland and Northern Ireland. In or leaving for Great Britain, targeting routes shown to just four months—January to April—175 immigration be most at risk. offenders were detected at Northern Irish sea and airports In the medium term, UKBA resources will shoulder and at west of Scotland sea ports. That is a 200% increase more of the work of dealing with immigration offenders on the same period in 2010, which suggests we are doing using that route, which will ease the pressure on Dumfries much better at getting to the root of the problem. and Galloway police. For now, early results suggest We have produced and agreed a 10-point plan between that, with appropriate levels of co-operation, smart the Border Agency and the Dumfries and Galloway deployments and an increased ratio of detections by the constabulary to improve co-ordination and liaison. The UKBA in Northern Ireland, further improvements can plan will cover a wide range of aspects, including the be made in the detection rates of immigration offenders systematic sharing of intelligence, joint tasking and using the Galloway ports as a transit route between co-ordination of deployments, which optimises coverage Northern Ireland and Scotland. In the long run, the at the highest-risk times at Northern Ireland sea ports new arrangements, with more effective controls on those and reduces the number of immigration offenders who routes, will lead to an overall reduction in immigration need to be processed by the police in Scotland. Again, arrest rates and minimise the burden on Dumfries that is a double benefit. There are now also monthly and Galloway constabulary. An early review of UKBA operational and quarterly strategic meetings to share operations found that an increasing number of immigration results, learn from experiences, identify and introduce best offenders are being detected in Northern Ireland, which practice, and review the progress of current arrangements. happens before they can travel to Scotland by ferry or The joint objective over the next six months is to the rest of the UK by air. introduce all these measures fully and to refine them, to deliver the majority of detections and detentions in Mr Russell Brown: I thank the Minister for giving Northern Ireland and to reduce Dumfries and Galloway way, and I wholly agree with him—I have here the UKBA constabulary time and the work needed to deal with report on the common travel area. Although more immigration suspects and offenders encountered at the effort is being made in Northern Ireland—rightly so, Scottish sea ports. because a commitment was given on that—and although This debate is particularly timely, as I know that more people are being detected, the reality is that more Kenny MacAskill, the Scottish Government Cabinet people are still coming on to the mainland through the Secretary for Justice chaired a meeting yesterday at the Galloway ports. I think I mentioned this earlier, but we new port of Loch Ryan where he met David Ford, the have all underestimated how serious the problem is; I Northern Ireland Assembly Minister of Justice, as well hold my hand up to that as well. More needs to be done. as representatives of both Scottish and Northern Irish police forces and the regional operation leads from the Damian Green: Of course, more always needs to be UKBA. I understand that it was a very constructive done, on every route. However, what I hope I am explaining meeting, and I think it is important to recognise that the to the House and the hon. Gentleman is what is being working relationship at the operational level among the done and why I believe that the changes being made—which Border Agency, the Police Service of Northern Ireland focus the operation more in Northern Ireland, which is and the Dumfries and Galloway constabulary goes a the source of the problem in his constituency—are a long way to make our ports an unwelcoming place for more effective long-term way of tackling illegal immigration criminals. and, as a beneficial side effect, reducing the stress on the Of course, all police forces come across illegal Dumfries and Galloway police. immigrants— Mr Dodds: I am grateful for what the Minister has said about what is being done in Northern Ireland, and 10.32 pm he is absolutely right. However, he also said that the House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order source of the problem was Northern Ireland, but is not No. 9(7)).

1WH 22 NOVEMBER 2011 Horse Racing (Funding) 2WH

its value is a major prohibitor to attracting good races, Westminster Hall and for smaller race courses that is one of their biggest challenges? Tuesday 22 November 2011 Matthew Hancock: If the problem is serious for Newmarket, it is even more serious for many smaller [HYWEL WILLIAMS in the Chair] race courses, especially if the prize money hardly pays for the diesel to get the horse to the race. If a horse Horse Racing (Funding) comes third or fourth, the owner’s costs are not even covered, and if an owner’s costs are not covered even Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting when their horse wins, one of the great incentives for be now adjourned.—(Stephen Crabb.) owning a horse is removed. Of course people own race horses for all sorts of reasons, not least the glamour of 9.30 am the winning enclosure and the thrill of their horse being Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): It is a pleasure the first to cross the line. None the less, it is important to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Williams, and to for an owner at least to have the dream that they may see my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for make money from their horse. People who own race Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport, or the Minister horses are normally realistic about the fact that they for horse racing, as he is known in Newmarket, in his may not get back their outlay, but they should at least place. have the hope that they can. The fall in prize money is I applied for this debate because the future funding of central to a fall in the attractiveness of owning and horse racing remains in a parlous condition. Although breeding race horses. the Government have shown willingness to deal with The fall in prize money reflects the fall in the value of the matter—no one doubts the Minister’s personal the levy itself—from £111 million in 2003 to £60 million commitment—more action is needed. in 2010. Will the Minister assure us that we can make Horse racing has, for centuries, been part of our the changes that are necessary to put the funding on a national heritage. It has been interwoven in our national sustainable footing; that in the sale of the Tote there are life from the time King Charles II took Nell Gwynne to commitments to racing that will be fulfilled; and that Newmarket for a month in the spring and a month in the money that used to come directly from the Tote and the autumn and races were used to keep up the quality will now come through the deal agreed during its sale of bloodstock during times of peace. The current exhibition will still happen? The Tote, although smaller in cash of early actresses at the National Portrait Gallery shows terms, is another important part of the funding of the beauty and other attractions of Nell Gwynne, so I racing. understand the desire of King Charles II to spend two Some progress has been made. It looks as though last months on the plains of Suffolk to enjoy all the riches year’s yield on the levy will come in at around £65 million, on offer. well below the target of £71.4 million, which in itself The sport was about not just bloodstock but high was too low. This year’s target is marginally higher, and entertainment, and so it is today. Racing is the second it has been underpinned by a guarantee from three of most watched sport after football in this country. It the big bookmakers. The Levy Board will spend an contributes more than £3 billion to our economy, and extra £5 million in 2012, £4 million of which will go in employs more than 100,000 people, 5,000 of them in prize money. Welcome as such a move is, it is merely and around racing in Newmarket. None the less, racing’s damage limitation. A long-term solution to the levy finances are in jeopardy. In 2010, the number of foals needs to be put in place, not least because of the born in the UK fell by a sixth. The number of horses in adversarial nature of the levy. Instead of the racing training has been falling consistently over the past three industry and bookmakers working together to provide years. The root of the issue is a breakdown in funding. a product that is great for the punter and good for The most important part of the funding for the industry racing, they have an adversarial relationship, which is the levy—the money that betting pays to racing in needs to be addressed. return for the races on which people bet—and as we know, it has fallen dramatically. Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): I congratulate The changes in the way that people bet and the move the hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate to more and more online gambling are at the heart of on the future of horse racing. Does he agree that the the matter. Racing has moved into a modern world and most important factor is a level playing field between has outstripped the outdated and outmoded outfit that onshore and offshore betting operators to fund the has determined its funding—the levy system. Prize money future of British horse racing? has almost halved since 2009, dropping from around £65 million to £34 million this year. Prizes are in freefall Matthew Hancock: I was just about to come to exactly compared with our nearest competitors. At Newmarket, that point, so the hon. Gentleman is prescient. There is a win in a middle-ranking race will net around £6,500; consensus that the system is broken and needs to be at Longchamp the equivalent is more than £21,000. reformed. We have no God-given right in Britain to Across the country, prize money has fallen by about a some of the best racing in the world. third over a couple of years. Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): My hon. Friend mentioned Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): Does my the fact that the levy is going up, which must be welcomed hon. Friend agree that for smaller race courses, such as by everybody. Does he not agree though that that is Ripon in my constituency, the issue of prize money and only half the story and that one of the other major 3WH Horse Racing (Funding)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Horse Racing (Funding) 4WH

[Philip Davies] Matthew Hancock: I think that the consensus in the House on the need to make such reforms is demonstrated costs for bookmakers is the media rights that they pay? by the fact that all the interceptions so far have anticipated After 2012, those will increase by £50 million a year, the next page of my speech. I am very grateful to my which is a huge windfall for the racing industry. It will hon. Friend for his intervention, because dealing with even benefit race courses such as the one in the constituency that offshore loophole is the first thing that we need to of my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon do if we are to sort out the problems of financing the (Julian Smith). racing industry. When I talk to individual bookmaking companies Matthew Hancock: I am not surprised that the amount that are offshore, each of them argues that they would being paid by bookies for picture rights is going up, not really like to be onshore and that the only reason they least because of the attractiveness of the sport and the are not onshore is that all their competitors are offshore. amount of interest that there is in racing. Of course the I have worked in a small business and I understand that rise is good news but picture rights are only part of the argument. If somebody else has taken a chunk of tax story, because when a punter bets on a race the bet is and levy contributions out of their cost base, of course based on the racing product that underpins it, so picture others will want to do the same. rights alone cannot be the answer to the question of I have a solution, which is to create a level playing how to fund horse racing. field; let us have everybody onshore and paying their I come now to what will be the core of my argument fair share of tax and levy contributions. The solution today and the core of the question that I will put to the that the Minister put forward in July was a neat and Minister. During the last decade or so, what has been quite simple one. Changing the designation of the location central to the fall in the value of the levy is the removal of a bet from where the bookie is based to where the from British shores of almost all the big bookmakers. punter is based would turn what at the moment is Of the 20 biggest bookies, only two are now domiciled legitimate tax avoidance into tax evasion. Because in the UK. As I said earlier, that change reflects changes of the internet, we might not necessarily catch 100% in technology that mean we can bet more online and of bets by making that change, but we could capture the over the phone. However, we must recognise the change vast majority. All the major bookmakers who want to and deal with it, if we are to put matters right. advertise or do other business in the UK will come The fact that bet365 and Coral are still onshore is onshore because they would not want to break the law great news, but we should not be in a position where we by not paying tax and levy on the bets placed with have to be grateful to bookies for staying onshore. The them. Most bookmakers are good corporate citizens, so idea that we should thank people for paying the tax that a change such as this would ensure that all the major they are due to pay is not one that we apply anywhere players would come onshore. That would not only help else in the tax system. In fact, everywhere else in the tax with the funding of racing, on which bookmakers’ own system we are pretty firm if people do not pay their tax. business models depend, but with the lack of a level Although I am grateful that those two bookmakers—bet365 playing field, which is a scourge of independent and and Coral—have stayed onshore, many independent small bookmakers. bookmakers cannot move offshore; they do not have the capacity to do so, as they are too small. Consequently Philip Davies: I understand the point that my hon. there is not a level playing field even within the gambling Friend is making. May I suggest a more conservative industry to ensure that there can be fair competition in approach? I understand that he has great influence with gambling. the Chancellor. Has he thought about persuading the The impact of that offshoring is felt across the board. Chancellor to reduce the rate of tax on those offshore There is a loss of millions in levy contributions and a businesses, which will tempt them back onshore? As a loss to the taxpayer, estimated at £62 million a year, in keen economist, I am sure that my hon. Friend will lost betting duty. I would be very interested to find out appreciate that 5% of something is far better than 15% whether the Minister has an updated estimate of the of nothing. amount of tax that is lost in betting duty because of the number of offshore bookmakers. Matthew Hancock: I do not believe in tempting people to pay tax; I believe in ensuring that people pay tax. I Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con): I have been told to myself am not tempted to pay tax, but I have to pay tax. thank my hon. Friend on behalf of Uttoxeter race Indeed, the tax is taken out of my wages before I even course, which is in my constituency, where his work on see it. People across the country would not understand behalf of the racing industry has become legendary. a system in which we merely tempt people to pay tax; we People at Uttoxeter have asked me to pass on their need to insist that people pay tax. personal thanks. Nevertheless, my hon. Friend makes an important My hon. Friend raises the very important issue of point. As he suggests, if all bookmakers came back betting going offshore. Obviously we live in a global onshore, the amount that went into the racing industry world and the internet makes it incredibly difficult for through tax and the levy would be substantially higher us to regulate betting offshore. However, many offshore and it may well be that at the same time we could look bookmakers still advertise in the UK; in magazines, on at the rates of tax being applied to bookmakers. Indeed, billboards and on the side of bus stops. Does he agree there is a Treasury consultation on that very point at the that one of the ways we could get them to understand moment. I am sure that he and others will make a the consequences of not being based in the UK is to contribution to that process, and no doubt the Chancellor regulate their advertising in those kinds of media? will listen to all Conservative Back Benchers equally. 5WH Horse Racing (Funding)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Horse Racing (Funding) 6WH

The argument that the Minister made in July in his is not simply about betting in betting shops or prize written ministerial statement, and in response to a money at race courses; it is about the British breeding question that I put on the Floor of the House, concentrated industry and the support necessary to maintain it. I on widening the regulatory net and ensuring that gambling hope he will assure everybody in the Chamber that he is regulations cover all people in the UK who make bets; it also supportive in that direction. focused on the regulatory aspect. Of course I support the argument that the appropriate regulatory net should Matthew Hancock: Absolutely. On that point and cover all people gambling in the UK and the principles more broadly, I declare a very wide interest: I am behind that argument, but expanding the reach of regulation heavily supported in Newmarket, including by people is not as urgent for the financing of the racing industry from the breeding fraternity, or sorority—there are an as closing the tax and levy loophole. I urge the Minister awful lot of extremely impressive men and women to look at the issue from the perspective of fair and involved in breeding—but this is also about racing appropriate funding of horse racing rather than the welfare, which is supported by the levy. There is a much wider changes to the coverage of gambling regulation broader point, and I am grateful to have the opportunity that he seeks. I am sure that people will support him in to put that on the record. This is about not only the flow both those aims but one is urgent and the other is from prize money into the activities of horsemen, but important, and the distinction between urgency and the direct payments from the levy system to breeding, importance is one that I am sure he recognises every welfare, veterinary research and other important associated time he opens his ministerial red box. aspects of the sport, and indeed ensuring that the I am very pleased that the Treasury is conducting a regulation of racing is adequately funded to guarantee consultation, but I want to ask the Minister some high-quality and well-regulated racing. I do not want to questions about how we will make the progress that is dwell on that point, but I am sure that those of us with necessary and how we will turn tax avoidance into tax an interest in debates on the matter have noticed it over evasion through legislation. A tax change and a financial the past couple of months. change to the levy could be made through the Finance Bill, and Finance Bills happen regularly. If that means Julian Smith: If the Minister got his skates on, how that we cannot make the wider regulatory changes that quickly could the change happen? We have talked about the Minister seeks, so be it. The urgent task is on the Finance Bills, but what would his optimal timetable be financial side, because it is only when we tackle the for this tax change to happen? offshore problem that we can go on to make the broader Matthew Hancock: The proposed change is relatively changes in the levy that many people want to see; simple. It would require primary legislation, but it would indeed, I think that there is cross-party consensus about take only a couple of clauses in a Bill. The legislation the need for broader changes in the levy. would be fairly simple because it would change the With bookies back onshore and paying their share, designation of where a bet was and everything else we can finally establish the long-term funding structure would flow from that. That is the foundation of unlocking that is both sustainable and fair to everybody involved all the other changes for which there is cross-party in racing, including bookmakers, and it could improve support. the relationship between racing and bookmakers. I urge the Minister to act. It is rare for the Government Ben Gummer (Ipswich) (Con): My hon. Friend has to have in front of them a proposal that is popular, used a key word, which is “sustainable”. As he rightly important, timely, simple, money-raising and necessary. said, one can understand the business reason for Since the proposal has all those attributes—and indeed, bookmakers going offshore in the short term, but such as we have discovered today, cross-party support—I ask a number of bookmakers going offshore is ensuring him to act with the greatest possible speed. He cares their own destruction and the destruction of the industry deeply about horse racing, the people of Newmarket on which they survive, so this is bigger than paying tax care about horse racing, and the country cares about onshore—it is about ensuring that the industry, and the future of horse racing, so let us make this change therefore bookmaking itself, continues. and put the finances of horse racing on the sustainable footing that they deserve. Matthew Hancock: Indeed. Bookmakers tend to value having racing on regularly so that there can be product Several hon. Members rose— in their shops—races on which people can bet. Around the country, having regular racing and a full fixture list Hywel Williams (in the Chair): Order. I want to start is good not only for the paying punters who want to go, the winding-up speeches at 10.40 am, so I hope that but for bookies, and it is important to ensure that that Members will time their contributions appropriately. can be appropriately financed, because the number of fixtures cannot be increased without increased support. 9.54 am Ensuring that prize money per race returned to a reasonable Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab): level would provide the impetus for people to own the I congratulate the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Matthew horses on which the rest of the industry depends. There Hancock) on securing this important debate. I have Ayr is a chain of causation through the fixture list and the race course in my constituency and, as the only Scottish prize money, and ensuring that the appropriate levy is Member here today, I think that I can confidently speak paid is critical. on behalf of all Scottish Members with race courses in Sir Alan Meale (Mansfield) (Lab): I assure the hon. their constituencies. Gentleman that I am going to refer not to the next page I want to start by emphasising to the Minister the of his speech, but to the first one. He mentioned the fall significant role that Ayr race course has in the Ayrshire in the number of foals produced in the UK. The levy economy. It is important because of local jobs—we 7WH Horse Racing (Funding)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Horse Racing (Funding) 8WH

[Sandra Osborne] Andrew Griffiths: Does the hon. Lady share my concern and that of my hon. Friend the Member for West have heard about the many people employed throughout Suffolk (Matthew Hancock) about the fact that the UK the UK in racing in its many forms—and in relation to has now dropped to 38th in the world rankings for prize tourism. Ayrshire is a very beautiful tourist area and the money, and that prize money has halved in two years? race course contributes greatly to encouraging people That is of major concern to the industry and it calls for to come to the area. Ayr race course is also an innovative urgent action. and enthusiastic local business, with a strong community focus. It is the leading race course in Scotland, with the Sandra Osborne: I could not agree more; that is a Ayr gold cup and the Scottish grand national among its major issue. Despite the wish to maintain a competitive annual fixtures. The race course does not just sit back prize regime for Scottish fixtures, to say nothing of our and wait for funding in the form of a levy or anything excellent facilities, the industry in Scotland cannot be else; it has built a business and has greatly diversified sustained indefinitely in the face of massive cuts in over the past few years, outwith race days. For example, income from the levy. The annual payment from betting it holds popular Christmas parties every year, which are to racing has fallen from an average of £106 million to a profitable enterprise. I have watched with great pleasure £59 million in three years—a drop of almost 50%. One as Ayr race course has changed from a run-down facility, of the most important reasons for the fall in racing’s lacking investment and vitality, to one of our most funding position, as Members have said, is the move popular local attractions. That is a credit to the management offshore by bookmakers and betting exchanges. How and the work force, and I wish to put on record my can it be right for bookmakers to advertise and transact thanks for everything they contribute to our local area. in the UK but not contribute to the levy or pay taxes? The race course is well supported by local people. Of 19 listed bookmakers, only two are now onshore, as Having said all that, since I have been a Member of the hon. Member for West Suffolk said. the House, I cannot remember a time when levy negotiations I am aware of the Minister’s July announcement in have been anything other than a problem. Every year, which he proposed to regulate remote gambling on a with monotonous predictability, we can look forward to point-of-consumption basis. That would create a level protracted, unsatisfactory, adversarial negotiations that playing field and it is long overdue. All operators based go to the brink and do not achieve a positive outcome. here or abroad would have to hold a Gambling Commission It has been blindingly obvious for some time that the licence to transact with UK customers. I welcome that levy mechanism does not work, is outdated and no and any other idea that would deal with this urgent longer fit for purpose. I must be frank: despite the best situation as the hon. Member for West Suffolk implored—as efforts of the then Minister, my hon. Friend the Member soon as possible. for Bradford South (Mr Sutcliffe), who took a very keen interest in this matter and always tried to be helpful, I 10.1 am feel that the previous Government could have done Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): Thank you for the more. They should have grasped the nettle. From the opportunity to speak, Mr Williams. I congratulate my debate so far, it seems that more progress is being made. hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matthew I hope I am right in saying that and look forward to the Hancock), who represents Newmarket, on making an Minister confirming it. eloquent and persuasive case. Right now, racing—along I can assure the House that the lack of progress was with its partners, the bookmakers—reminds me of the not due to lack of trying on the part of every Member eurozone: a once mighty beast, unable to lead, unfit to with a race course in their constituency. We set up govern, almost ungovernable and slowly being starved Friends of Scottish Racing as a cross-party group, and of cash, with solutions that too many vested interests we try to use every opportunity to highlight areas of will not address or embrace for fear of criticism by their concern alongside the UK Parliament’s all-party group members. on horse racing. It has already been mentioned that the I have many things to declare. I am a category B levy is not the only area of concern, but it is of central licence holder and the only jockey in the House of importance because it undoubtedly puts race courses at Commons. As hon. Members will see, I am now in the serious risk. The fact that funding has reduced so heavyweight division. I blame the right hon. Member drastically is rendering the sport uneconomic. We are for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) for many reaching crisis point and something urgently needs to things, but I am afraid that the election and the delights be done. I do not wish to be over-dramatic, and I am of the House of Commons have caused me to lose the very aware that the racing community would prefers a racing weight that I enjoyed when I won races in 2009 at more collaborative approach, with partnership working, Corbridge in Hexham. but the current system militates against that and it is I must also declare a definite bookmaking background. imperative that a new funding mechanism is found. At age 11, at school, I survived by running an illegal As a Scottish MP, I also wish to emphasise the bookmaking operation, which well and truly persuaded difficulties faced by those in the north in attracting me that the bookmaker will always be one step ahead of owners prepared to incur the extra costs and travelling the punter. On Fridays, we used to receive five boiled time of bringing horses and jockeys further afield. We sweets in a bag, which was the currency that we used to have already talked about attracting business to race run our bookmaking operation. My headmaster tried courses, but in Scotland we have a particular problem to stop that illegal betting ring, which clearly paid no because of the geography, and it is undermining if prize tax, but was prevented by the outcry among the money does not reflect that effort. As the hon. Member punters—my fellow schoolchildren—and by the positive for West Suffolk said, if people’s costs are not covered, encouragement of my parents, who were pleased to see, they do not feel that it is worth the effort. although I was not necessarily concentrating on my 9WH Horse Racing (Funding)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Horse Racing (Funding) 10WH studies, that at least I was not such a daydreamer that I have little faith in bookmakers to volunteer a better could not make a bob or two. So I have worked as a system in future. That simply will not happen. My hon. bookmaker and understand the difficulties and delights Friend the Member for Shipley seeks a discounted of that noble profession. version of taxation in relation to offshore. That is a I should also declare an interest as a former horse commercial advantage to which bookmakers would racing journalist. For three halcyon years, I was the sign up gratefully, but it would be no solution whatever. racing correspondent for that august racing journal, the It is important to note that such companies’ profits Limerick Weekly Echo. I managed to put one Limerick are significant. Betfair made £26.6 million to April bookmaker out of business by predicting the first, 2011. William Hill made £277 million to 29 December second and third in the grand national of 1981, an 2010, and its chief executive’s salary is £1.65 million, accumulator that one would wish to get a hold of. I have which I suspect would fund Hexham about eight times worked in horse sales, bred racehorses and worked as a over. All the other organisations make substantial profits stable lad in various places up and down the country. as well. Also, although I confess that I am not nearly as wealthy as my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Philip Davies: My hon. Friend should know that the Davies), who has many racehorses, I am in a syndicate fact that I have more horses in training than him is with a part share in pointers and a chaser. the reason why he is far richer than I am. He rattled off Over the years, I have ridden at a multitude of race the figures, but will he acknowledge how much those courses, from Cheltenham to Kempton, and have enjoyed businesses give to racing? Betfair, which has gone offshore, their delights, but I have a particular affiliation with and still gives £6.5 million of its £26 million every year in a love for the finest race course in the world, which, as we voluntary levy to racing. If racing is so strapped for all know, is Hexham. If hon. Members have not visited cash, is it not bizarre that the British Horseracing it, I urge them to do so. The team behind Hexham, one Authority is ignoring the advice of two eminent QCs of the last few privately owned race courses in the that its customers should not pay a levy, and is spending country, have racing and the general public’s interest money needlessly on a judicial review with William very much at heart. The race course provides employment, Hill? If the racing industry is strapped for cash, one tourism and sport, supports breeding, vets and feed would think that it would spend its money a bit more companies and is an integral part of society in the sensibly. north-east. I know that I speak for all Members with race courses in their communities. Each of us will tell Guy Opperman: To misquote Christine Keeler, they the same tale of how integral it is to their community, would say that, wouldn’t they? The harsh reality is that and how it provides much more than simply a race Betfair is effectively trying to buy off the racing industry course where punters can place bets. by making a donation that it does not have to make, in the hope that the matter will not be transferred back As the only jockey in Parliament and someone acutely onshore. That is a strong assertion to make, but I interested in the issue, I can declare that the future suggest that there is ample evidence to support it. funding of racing is important. It is a harsh reality that the number of horses going through the ranks of racing It is also clear that bookmakers are seeing the writing will increasingly diminish. That is patently obvious on the wall. They are trying to diversify away from from the numbers. Horses will also be taken abroad to racing and into sports such as cricket and football. For be trained. Why would anybody stay in this country to example, on the subcontinent, in India, there is little train a horse, unless they were particularly in love with betting on racing, because most of it is on cricket. the sport? I urge the Minister to change the tax rules. If overseas My hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk spoke operations wish to utilise British racing, they must pay eloquently of the disparity in prize money for flat more. I support entirely the idea that the punter based racing. The winner of a steeplechase race in France in this country is the source of the taxation. would get a minimum of £5,000, but the winner of a I want to go one step further. If we do not have a novice hurdle race at one of the lesser tracks here will solution and if we do not refinance racing, we will need probably end up with £1,000 or £1,200. By the time they to look at what to do then. If we do not resolve the issue have paid for travel, entry and all the other bits and and if the bookmakers and the Government do not bobs, it is almost not worth going to the races from a address it properly, there will be only one solution. It is financial point of view. That 5:1 disparity in funding draconian, but it is the only alternative solution, and and prize money will eventually seep down into the that is the nationalisation of bookmaking. That is the system, causing the demise of racing in this country. Let only way that we could approach the issue if bookmakers us not be in any doubt. In what other sport is this are no longer able or no longer willing, and the Government country a world leader? One could make a case for do not create a scheme, to fund it in this particular way. cricket or a few other things, but in reality, racing is [Interruption.] My hon. Friend the Member for Shipley clearly the No. 1 sport at which this country is the chunters from a sedentary position, although I accept champion, and we should support it. I certainly believe that he never usually does that. that it is a cause worth fighting for. The point is that America may be the land of the free, As others have said—I think that this opinion is but it has no competition in terms of state-sponsored cross-party—the present situation is patently untenable. bookmaking. Similarly, France, which is another We must address how racing is funded. The Government’s competitive society, has a state-sponsored bookmaking levy solution is clearly not sustainable in the long term. system. That is also the way it is done in Australia and I applaud the Government’s efforts, which I know follow other places. Why is it that racing is funded so much the efforts of previous Ministers, to find a radical new better in those countries? Because everything that racing solution to how the levy is funded. I regret to say that I does goes back that way. I stress that I do not want to go 11WH Horse Racing (Funding)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Horse Racing (Funding) 12WH

[Guy Opperman] Racing for Change and other initiatives, to deal with the issue by introducing a championship and examining down that route, but bookmakers and the Government what can be done on the grading of courses. That work need to understand that, if they do not sort this out, I needs to continue, because it is unlikely that we will be regret to say that that will probably be the only remaining able to sustain the levels of prize money and investment. option. That does not mean that local courses cannot look for I could say much more about how racing has been led other means of support and investment—they should. and about the disaster of the whip debate and the way The reality might hit some such courses. Towcester is a in which the British Horseracing Authority and Mr Roy good example of what can be done by an individual have conducted themselves, but I have probably said course. enough. The issue of the levy needs to be resolved and the vested interests need to be sorted out. We also need to 10.12 am look at the betting industry. We have talked about the reliance of betting shops on the horse-racing product, Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab): It is a but I believe that that now accounts for less than 30% of pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Williams. the takings, because people are betting on other sports I add my congratulations to the hon. Member for West such as football, rugby and cricket. The future of high Suffolk (Matthew Hancock), not only on securing this street betting shops is an issue. The Minister will be debate, but on his continued interest in the issue, for all aware of concerns surrounding the fixed-odds betting the reasons that he has given. terminals—FOBTs—and what may or may not happen Everyone present agrees that racing is a fantastic to them in the future. There has also been a move to product. We only have to consider last Saturday’s Betfair online betting. I think that the structure and size of the Chase, where Kauto Star won a fantastic victory. All betting industry will change, and that will affect racing. racing fans enjoyed that event. I do not have a racecourse I feel for the independent bookmakers, because they get in my constituency, but Go Racing in Yorkshire is a caught up in the problems. They have to do what the big fantastic body that does well not only by promoting boys do, and it costs them more, so their costs are ever racing, but by bringing new people to racing through increasing. tourism and so on. Racing has an impact on employment I believe that good faith has a part to play. Talking of and the country’s national identity, which is vital and which, I hope that the Minister will update us on the something that we should not lose. A person’s social position of on-course pitch tenure. We entered into an background and what they want out of a horse-racing agreement in good faith and progress has been made event do not matter—they can go to the biggest and the with some courses, but I hope that the matter is not best courses or to their local tracks, and enjoy the forgotten and put to one side, because small independent experience. bookmakers rely on those pitches and I think that we Today’s debate is timely. I thank the Minister for his came to a compromise that should be accepted. work in trying to keep the momentum going—that is I think it was the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip something that I tried, but, unfortunately, I was Davies) who raised the issue of William Hill, Betfair unsuccessful—on where we need to be and on achieving and the levy board. The money being spent on that is an some realism. The hon. Member for Hexham (Guy absolute waste, and the fact that the BHA has to cover Opperman) is right—there are too many vested interests the costs is an issue that needs to be resolved. It should for the issue to be resolved. Much as it appeals to me as not be going through the courts in the way that it is and a Labour politician, his solution to nationalise the the matter should be resolved. Betfair’s commitment to betting industry might not be the way forward, although racing is well known. The levy may be voluntary, but it I like where he is coming from and can think of other exists. issues that he might like to talk about in terms of The Minister should continue with his work. It is nationalisation. There are too many vested interests, good to see the co-chair of the all-party group on racing which means that the debate centres on the argument and bloodstock industries, the hon. Member for Tewkesbury between horse racing on one side and betting on the (Mr Robertson), present. We as Members of Parliament other, but the issue is too complex for it to be as simple can and will continue to help to put pressure on vested as that. interests. The day will come when, if they do not sort I agree with the hon. Member for West Suffolk about this out themselves, it will be sorted out, but not in a what should happen with offshoring and think that the way that people want. I congratulate the hon. Member Minister’s solution is sensible. I wish him well on trying for West Suffolk again on securing the debate. I am sure to resolve that with his colleagues in Government—I there will be other such debates and look forward to know how difficult that can be—and on the taxation hearing the Minister’s response. issue. I favour sports rights—I do not think that it is 10.18 am unknown that that is the route that I would follow. I Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): It is a think that sports betting rights are the way forward. pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Williams, The comparison with France is a good one—it has an and to follow the hon. Member for Bradford South 8% sports betting levy—and I think that sports rights (Mr Sutcliffe), who works so very hard to try to resolve will eventually be introduced, probably in three or four what are extremely difficult issues. I congratulate my years’ time. hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matthew There has to be some more movement. I do not think Hancock) on introducing this important and timely that racing can sustain our 60 courses, or that the levy debate, and thank him for many of the things that he support helps that. Racing itself has tried, through said. 13WH Horse Racing (Funding)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Horse Racing (Funding) 14WH

I want to declare two non-declarable interests. I am sorts of other businesses, especially in the competitive joint-chairman of the all-party group on racing and world in which we live. I therefore hope that that point bloodstock industries, along with the hon. Member for will be considered. Mansfield (Sir Alan Meale), whom I am pleased to see I have no objection to the proposals that my hon. present. With respect to other Members, I also have the Friend the Member for West Suffolk made to the Minister, honour of representing what I consider the greatest race nor indeed to the considerations that the Minister is course in the world—Cheltenham race course, where making, but we ought to think about why businesses each year we have the world-famous Cheltenham gold went abroad in the first place. The constant pursuit of cup. That is one of the greatest, if not the greatest, the exchanges is not healthy for the sport, or indeed for steeplechases in the world. I am delighted that my hon. bookmakers, at this point. If we are talking about a levy Friend the Minister is a holder of one of those gold replacement, let us get on with replacing it. Let us not cups. I know that it is not the tradition of Government get on with trying to tinker with the existing levy to have people who know what they are doing in post, arrangement. If we do that, all we will end up with is but he is a very welcome exception to that rule. levy mark 2—a similar arrangement to the one we have I can only really endorse a lot of what my hon. now, but called something else. I want us to move on Friend the Member for West Suffolk and others have from that. said. In this country, we have what is probably the How do we find the future funding for horse racing? greatest racing in the world. It is certainly up there with That will not be particularly easy. If it were easy, the the best, if not the actual best. As the hon. Member for problem would have been solved a long time ago. We Bradford South said, we had the most fantastic spectacle have heard a lot about a commercial solution. In terms at Haydock on Saturday, when Kauto Star won against of name and concept, I am all in favour that commercial all expectation, providing such excitement in the world solution, but I am a little concerned that some of the of horse racing and in the world of sport. Last year, proposals are not a commercial solution at all, but a Tony McCoy—AP McCoy—won the BBC sports rerunning of the levy. We need to avoid that. personality of the year because of his exploits, yet all that gets overshadowed by the constant wrangling about There has been a call for any arrangement that is funding and the constant falling out over the levy—not designed and agreed to be underpinned or guaranteed. just the level, but the details. We have to be very careful over how we go about that. Are we talking about underpinning through legislation? I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for West If we are, we have not really moved on much from Suffolk, who said that that is one of the best reasons for where we are now. Indeed, we could find ourselves up in getting rid of the levy. It is divisive. It pits bookmaker the European Court in relation to state aid rules. My against people in racing, whatever racing means in that view on state aid is that we are an independent country respect. The levy was finally decided at quarter to 12 on with a Parliament here, and we should do as we will. I the night of Halloween, which made for an unedifying would not bow to—[Interruption.] I thought that my spectacle. This is a very outdated and impractical system. hon. Friend the Member for Shipley would agree with As has been said, it has also delivered falling revenue. me on that point. However, we are where we are at the As the hon. Member for Mansfield said, that is important moment, although we may change those rules in the in many respects, not just for prize money, although it is future, and we do not want to fall foul of state aid rules. significant with regard to prize money. Prize money is Any solution that we reach must be compliant. If the not everything, but it does filter down and find its way Minister will allow me to say so, we were rather too to trainers, jockeys and stable staff. It is extremely obsessed with state aid rules when it came to changing important not just so the rich can get richer, to coin a the status of the Tote—we gave them far too much phrase, but so that those who work at the bottom can credibility—but there is an issue here, no question about continue to work in the sport. Therefore, it is important that. to find a better funding mechanism, if mechanism is the right word. I will come on to that. Matthew Hancock: On the question whether a transfer The principal point made by my hon. Friend the should be underpinned by legislation, would it not be Member for West Suffolk was about how overseas better in the long term to have it underpinned by operators are avoiding paying the levy. I do not object contract—by agreement—based on, for instance, a racing to anything he said, but I have quite a bit of sympathy right or sports betting right? That could be the basis of with the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for a commercial agreement. However, is it not important Shipley (Philip Davies). We have to analyse why people in the short term to solve the offshore problem, so that have gone abroad. It is not just because of the levy. To we have an appropriate basis from which to go forward draw a brief analogy, I have the honour of chairing the to a truly sustainable position? Northern Ireland Affairs Committee and one recent proposal was for the Northern Ireland Assembly to Mr Robertson: Just as many hon. Members anticipated have the right to set a corporation tax that would be my hon. Friend’s next statement, he has anticipated attractive to companies and businesses, compared with mine. The arrangement has to be consolidated and corporation tax in the Republic of Ireland. The tax is underpinned by the civil law, rather than by legislation. 12.5% in the Republic and 26% in the UK—a bit of a I entirely agree with him for a number of reasons, and no-brainer when thinking about where to put a factory the state aid issue is one. Another is that, if we are going or business. We should explore why companies have commercial, we are going commercial—that is the way gone abroad in the first place and consider having the we should go. I understand his point. We have to bring kind of tax regime that attracts them. That is not just offshore companies back onshore, but I would prefer to about bookmakers; I could expand that argument to all explore that through the way that I have described—perhaps 15WH Horse Racing (Funding)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Horse Racing (Funding) 16WH

[Mr Laurence Robertson] horses do not get enough money, even after winning the race, to provide the diesel and cover the transport costs by making it attractive for companies to do business in of getting to the race course. That has to change and we this country. We may need to go a little further than must be given some access to a price guarantee for such that, but it should certainly be explored. people to make it worth doing at all. On coming up with the commercial solution, I am not entirely convinced that the Government should Mr Robertson: I agree with the co-chairman of the decide the replacement for the levy. The Government all-party group on that matter. My only point is that the have proposed three options, although I do not suppose system should be guaranteed commercially and not that they are the only options that they would consider. necessarily underpinned by legislation or by the However, there are other options that are perhaps not Government. I agree entirely with his point—I simply for the Government, but for racing and bookmakers, to do not know how people continue to fund owning put in place. racehorses. If they cover their training fee for one My hon. Friend the Member for Shipley talked about month, they have done extremely well. That cannot be the increase in media rights. I understand that over the done every time—an owner will not win a race each next year, from 2011-12 to 2012-13, they will increase by month to cover the training fees, and indeed, they 26%. That could be considered different from the levy, would still be no better off. In this country, the official but when an owner gets his cheque for £5,000 or £10,000, figure for costs recovered is about 23%, which cannot be I do not think he is too concerned whether that has sustainable. come from media rights, race courses, the levy or wherever; My final point on a commercial solution is that race he is concerned about the size of that cheque. The courses, as well as bookmakers, are a big player. I agree whole cake is the important thing, not necessarily which with a lot of what has been said by other hon. Members particular segments have come from where. in that there are too many other, bit-part players involved. It might be more polite to say that too many middlemen Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I will not take are involved, which clouds the issue and causes too up the Boundary Commission’s strange oversight in not many problems. Race courses and bookmakers are probably including Cheltenham race course in the Cheltenham the main players in finding a solution, and we must find constituency this time. What does the hon. Gentleman that solution. Horse racing is an outstanding sport that think of the mechanism of having a requirement for all gives much pleasure, enjoyment, exercise and discipline bookmakers, whether offshore or onshore, to hold a to many people each and every day. We must find a way Gambling Commission licence in the UK? That forward to maintain the very high level that horse Government proposal has merit, and I think the Jockey racing has achieved over many years. Club also supports it.

Mr Robertson: I am grateful to the Member for the 10.31 am Cheltenham constituency but not for the racecourse for his intervention. He makes a fair point that needs to be Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): I congratulate the hon. considered. The workings of the Gambling Commission Member for West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock) on his are being looked at, which is a welcome step. That may continued pressure on the subject and on securing the be a way of tying people in, so that all bookmakers are debate today. He and other hon. Members who have caught up in the agreement that is eventually reached spoken have anticipated every page of my speech, so my between racing and bookmakers. I hope that that could few remarks will be from the angle of representing be explored. Redcar race course in my constituency. I am delighted that Go Racing in Yorkshire still says that the course is On the commercial solution, I mentioned media rights. in Yorkshire, despite the local government gyrations I also mentioned sponsorship, which is rarely discussed, that keep giving my area different administrations. although many bookmakers voluntarily put money into it—not only bookmakers, but many other companies. I For a course such as Redcar, the effect of the problem am reliably informed by many in racing who are involved over the past few years has been quite dramatic and, to to trying to fund the sport that racing does not pursue some extent, hidden. The subtle effect of lowering prize sponsors and sponsorship as much, as often or as money is that fewer owners attend the races, while some deeply as it could. That certainly needs exploring. It races are getting a lower rating, which influences the might not necessarily be part of a system or structure, view of top trainers. They have always been happy to but that money is available. Companies often sponsor send horses to Redcar—trainers such as Henry Cecil more than just one sport: they might sponsor cricket are regular visitors—in particular as it is one of the few and football and racing. That has to be further looked courses in the country with a flat straight mile. The into. 2011 cards have seen a noticeable drop in the number of trainers coming from places such as Newmarket or even Sir Alan Meale: I agree with much of what the hon. further south—a trainer from Arundel used to send Gentleman has just said, but we still need somehow to horses regularly—partly because of the cost of transport extract a price guarantee for the product. I find it but also the subtle effect of lower prize money, which difficult to accept that trainers, owners and jockeys will means lower quality racing. That vicious circle affects participate in a venture that produces a race for the many smaller courses. industry to consume and make money from. Even at Redcar race course sits right in the middle of the the minor level, £1.5 million is bet off-course on every town, so any change would have far-reaching effects, single race, yet we have a scenario, which was referred to way beyond racegoers. It is a key part of our cultural earlier, in which the owners and trainers of the race life; for example, a great charity event for Help for 17WH Horse Racing (Funding)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Horse Racing (Funding) 18WH

Heroes was held there this summer, and I was happy to former Minister and, I am sure, to Ministers in this be one of those presenting a prize. The effect of race Government as well? We can get the framework right, courses on towns is far wider than just racing. giving certainty for the future. We would send out a cross-party message that there will be no further legislative Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South interventions, and then ask the commercial partners— Pembrokeshire) (Con): Is racing not one of those unique bookmakers and race courses—to sit down together sporting occasions that brings people from isolated and sort out the differences, rather than looking constantly rural areas in contact with those in urban areas? All to us to provide a solution for them. walks of life coalesce around that fantastic sport, which is unique in that respect. Ian Swales: I agree. I am not suggesting that the levy should be scrapped overnight, but we should have an Ian Swales: Absolutely. I cannot beat my hon. Friend’s eye to the future, beyond a system that will get us to the lyrical description, but in Redcar, the race course is future. particularly important because it brings people into the I ask Members to think about the amounts of money resort activities of Redcar, as well as for racing, often on that pour into sports such as football and Formula 1 the same day. Race courses play a key cultural role. from TV, and then think about how few hours those We must also remember—a point that has not been sports are shown on television compared with racing. made—that bookmakers are key tenants on our hard- Does racing even know what its product is worth? If pressed high streets. I recently visited a bookmaker’s in people off the courses are generating £1.5 million every Redcar, along with a representative of the Association half an hour, what are the TV rights really worth? of British Bookmakers. Although the ABB likes to I welcome the direction that the Minister is taking. remind us that UK racing is a smaller slice of the cake I welcome the Tote deal, because it kept a large benefit these days, the manager of the shop confirmed that it is for racing, although I reiterate the point made by my still the major source of footfall in the shop. People hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman), using casino machines, for example, will most likely which is that the most successful racing countries in the have come through the door because of racing. That is world typically do not have commercial bookmakers also true for many of those putting a bet on football on but a Tote-style system. I hope we never get there, but it a Saturday; they are in the shop because of racing, even is possibly a safety net. though the bet will appear in the bookmaker’s turnover It is vital to our communities that we reform the as a bet on football. We should not accept too many finances, because race courses play a crucial cultural, scare stories from bookmakers. economic and environmental role. The Government must continue to set the framework for the industry. Matthew Hancock: Does that not reiterate the need for a level playing field? Betting shops inevitably pay the 10.39 am levy because a shop cannot be moved offshore. George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): Thank you Ian Swales: That is absolutely true. My hon. Friend for the opportunity to speak, Mr Williams. I am sorry made the point earlier that independent bookmakers do that I was a little late. I shall keep my comments short. not have the option to move offshore and, typically, I add my support for my hon. Friend the Member for they operate from fixed premises. West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock) and congratulate him I support everything that has been said so far, and I on raising the issue of an important industry and a vital welcome the Minister’s statement of 14 July.The suggestion part of our heritage. When the Government and all of that operators, wherever based, wishing to transact with us are stretching every sinew to promote growth in the UK customers would have to pay for a licence makes country, it seems criminally negligent to allow the decline sense. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for of a great industry that we already have. On a personal Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) on his hard work on behalf note, as the proud son of a former grand national-winning of the racing industry, and I agree that we have to think jockey who had the privilege of riding for Her Majesty a bit bigger. It is high time that the levy system was the Queen Mother, it is a chance to remind ourselves of scrapped; the tinkering that he mentioned will not the great heritage of this great sport. My point is about provide a long-term solution. Commercial negotiations the importance of national hunt racing in the rural over the sale of the product, and a more entrepreneurial economy.Low prize money is a particularly acute problem, attitude from the industry, could have dramatic effects. and the whole pyramid of small trainers, point-to-points, We have seen what happens in other sports such as hunts, pony clubs, hauliers and feed suppliers in a football, cricket and even darts when proper negotiations constituency such as mine is essential to underpin our take place. rural economy and rural communities. There is also sponsorship. Newcastle United has just decided, controversially, to rename its ground from 10.40 am St James’s Park, but that will net something like £10 million Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): I add my congratulations a year. What opportunities do race courses have in that to the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock) regard? on securing the debate, and his tenacity in following the issue. I have read previous debates that he has taken Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): part in. I do not know whether he is aware that we share I represent the most beautiful race course in the world, an interest in the Middle Park stud. Back in the mid-19th in Beverley. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that we century, William Blenkiron, who had made an enormous need Government action to provide a new settlement amount of money in a men’s outfitters in the City, that will get us over the endless grief caused to the bought a horse called Glance, and set up stables in 19WH Horse Racing (Funding)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Horse Racing (Funding) 20WH

[Clive Efford] with inducements for people to become involved in activities that do not affect the outcome—a no-ball in London after he retired. That activity grew so much cricket, the first yellow card or a throw-in in football. If that Blenkiron moved to Middle Park—it was then in larger sums of money can be made from such activities Kent, but is now in an inner London borough—where than from performing in the sport, its integrity will be he set up the Middle Park stud, which became the undermined. It is not just a matter of saying that such biggest stud in the country, and a tourist attraction. practices have occurred in the unregulated areas of People from all over Europe would go to see that gambling, because that is not so. There have been magnificent place. It is now a council housing estate, examples even in the UK’s regulated gambling operations and in the middle is a place called Newmarket Green. of quite severe and large-scale corrupt activities to try The stud moved to the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, to fix the outcome of gambling. If we are to sustain the so we share some history. I believe that the Middle Park integrity of the gambling industry so that it is not stakes are still run at Newmarket. undermined, and to continue to have faith in sport and I bow to the superior knowledge that has been displayed its outcome, knowing that it is genuine competition, we by all hon. Members who have spoken. I cannot claim must work together to sustain the integrity of both to be steeped in the history of racing, or to be as sport and gambling. That means that a fair return must involved as Members who have spoken with great be paid to sport, and we must ensure that we work knowledge of the subject. My experience comes from together to achieve that outcome. my childhood memories of my dad reading Sporting I have some questions for the Minister. I assume that Life and studying form at the kitchen table on Saturday he accepts the principle that those who make money mornings. He was a member of a number of syndicates, from gambling should contribute to the sport, particularly and was a lifelong advocate and supporter of most horse racing, which is the subject of this debate. What betting shops, not to put to fine a point on it. He conclusions has he come to? He said that he intends to frequently told me that a horse was a dead cert and that legislate to create a level playing field between those he had been following it for years. Most were last heard who operate onshore and those who operate offshore. of at the starting line, and never seen again. He loved Can he tell us today when and how he intends to move racing, and had a lifelong association with it. It was a forward on that? Does he agree with the British racing real joy for him, and it is part of our heritage. It is an industry that payment should be based around betting, industry and a sport that we should all protect, because not just on viewing rights, and that there should be it is important and we would rue the day if it were some relationship to the amount of money that is damaged or lost. exchanged in gambling on horse racing so that there is a The history of gambling and betting shops is synonymous sustainable replacement for the levy? Does he intend to with horse racing. Gambling started at the trackside, legislate in that vein? and moved into the high street. That is when the levy The hon. Member for West Suffolk asked about the arose. Betting shops were no longer on-course, and future of the Tote. Will the Minister say what arrangements because of the investment necessary for racing, breeding will be made for the Tote to make a continuing contribution horses and the industry generally, it was recognised that to racing? It was set up to contribute to the future of they should contribute to sustaining the sport through horse racing. My time is up, so I ask the Minister to the levy. There is agreement that the arrangement should respond to those few questions. continue into the future if we are to sustain the industry. I add my voice to those who have today urged the 10.49 am Government to legislate to enable the horse racing industry to negotiate a return for its intellectual property The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, rights and the investment that it puts into horse racing Olympics, Media and Sport (John Penrose): It is a to ensure that it is sustained in future. pleasure to have you in the Chair looking after us today, Mr Williams. I want to thank and congratulate all hon. Does the racing industry believe that it is sustainable, Members who have spoken in today’s debate. My hon. not just in horse racing but in sport generally, for it to Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock), make enormous sums of money from what is invested who secured the debate, has been notable in his continuing in the sport and the effort that goes into organising the support for the industry and also for his tenacity in sport? Additional costs are imposed on the sport to following it. sustain its integrity because of the dangers that it is I am greatly heartened by the relatively widespread exposed to through illegal gambling activities. Is it cross-party position on many aspects surrounding the sustainable for the betting industry to continue to make debate. That is important to note not just now but for money from the sport without contributing to it, particularly the future, because the problem has been knocking to its grass roots in our communities that sustain it? As around for 51 years—the levy is 51 years old this has been said, horse racing involves a great deal at year—and has defeated many people across the House community level, and it is such an important part of and in the gambling and horse racing industries. It is local communities that without investment trickling not a simple problem; it is a difficult issue. Many down to its grass roots, the whole edifice will be undermined. Members have remarked on the fact that there are None of us wants that, and I am sure that no one in the entrenched interests and points of view, and honestly betting industry wants it either. held and fervently delivered opinions on all sides. If the The question today is whether the current situation, problem were simple, we would have solved it 30 years when so many people are moving away and contributing ago. However, nobody has managed it, so it is helpful less, is sustainable in the long term, not just in horse and worth marking that there seems to be emerging racing, but in sport generally. Some of the scandals in consensus, although there are still many important points sport generally have involved illegal gambling practices of detail to deal with. 21WH Horse Racing (Funding)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Horse Racing (Funding) 22WH

I am not sure whether this is a declarable interest, but We need to ensure that we remain well regulated and in the interests of transparency I mention that my wife that we continue to have a responsible industry. A is a non-executive director of the race course at Cheltenham, British punter who goes online and uses this or that from where my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury gambling website does not necessarily know whether (Mr Robertson) comes. She also has a horse in training, the website is regulated in the UK or abroad. In some although the prospect of its being involved in any foreign jurisdictions, there are good regulators, but not meaningful prize money is more theoretical than actual in others, I am afraid. It is essential that a British punter at the moment. At least the declaration has been made. knows that no matter where the website may be hosted, it is still protected by British regulation, and therefore Several colleagues have asked about the proceeds of they have the legal protections that they would expect if the Tote, including my hon. Friend the Member for they walked into a betting shop on a British high street. West Suffolk and the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive That is the starting point for our regulatory changes. Efford). The Government made a promise during the process of selling the Tote that 50% of the net returns The changes may also have important knock-on would go to racing, and we intend to honour that implications for taxation. I will try not to tread on the promise. We are currently in discussions with the racing Treasury’s toes, but some parallel announcements were industry, and my approach has been very simple. I am made a few days after we announced our regulatory happy to provide those proceeds via whatever mechanism changes. They are also working their way through the racing chooses, with the sole proviso that it will not system. The point I want to make to my hon. Friend the fall foul of competition or state aid rules. Basically, we Member for West Suffolk and anybody else who has sat down with racing and said, “With those sole provisos, raised the point during the debate is that changing the tell us how you want it done”, and we are getting way we treat offshore regulation is an essential first step close to a solution. I am pleased to report steady to dealing with consumer protection and potentially to progress, but there are important details that need to be dealing with things such as the levy and possibly even sorted out. taxation. However, that is not the whole answer. Clearly, we need to move on, having built that foundation, to The hon. Member for Bradford South (Mr Sutcliffe) create a new environment and a new type of successor asked about progress on on-course bookmakers’ pitches. to the levy. That is a knotty problem that has been ongoing since he was in the ministerial chair. I am happy to report that Arena and Northern race courses are making good Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): We do not progress. They are all but there in terms of signing want the gambling industry to go the same way as the agreements. Certainly, there have been handshakes on British shipping industry. The way to solve the problem deals, and I welcome that progress. Jockey Club race is to reduce taxation so that the industry does not want courses are still in negotiation. Once the big three go offshore in the first place. groups of race courses have agreed a structure, I suspect that the remaining independents, of which there are John Penrose: As a low-tax and free-market Tory, my many, as the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, will follow. instincts are of course with my hon. Friend. We will I urge Jockey Club race courses and on-course bookmakers have to wait for the Treasury’s announcement on such to pursue that remaining piece of negotiation rapidly. matters. It is important to remember that there is a Others have managed it already. If we can get them over distinction between betting duty and corporation tax. the line, or if they can get themselves over the line, they Just as Goldman Sachs has a headquarters based in will not have to worry about politicians interfering. If America but a large operation here in the UK, so too politicians come up with a deal, I suspect it will be less the location of betting firms’ corporate headquarters good than one the industries come up with themselves. may be in a different place from where their operations and the jobs are. That is an important distinction to I was delighted about and thankful for the level of remember. support voiced for the Government’s proposals to change the way that offshore bookmaking is dealt with. It is Given the limited amount of time, I want briefly to important to realise that for entirely understandable update colleagues on the progress we are making in the commercial reasons—entirely logical commercial decisions ongoing discussions between the gambling and horse in many cases—because of a system that was set up racing industries in our search to find a successor to the with a set of commercial incentives, many bookmakers levy. I am afraid I will not be able to give a running moved offshore over the course of the past five or commentary, because the conversations are detailed 10 years. We aim to change the way those offshore and difficult, with the entrenched positions that everyone bookmakers are regulated. Several colleagues have been here has already mentioned. However, I can report that kind enough to describe this as simple and elegant; we I have been impressed so far by the willingness of all are switching the way offshore bookmakers are regulated sides to engage constructively and actively, and with a so that anybody anywhere in the world who is selling degree of determination. We are only partway through gambling services to people based in Britain will have to the process. There is a great deal further to do. hold a British Gambling Commission licence. That I reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury neatly enfranchises all those firms within the British that while we may have started with the three options regulatory net, which is important for consumer protection. that I laid out to get the conversation started, we are In this country, we are used to a well regulated and moving on from them. I am taking the approach that if responsible gambling industry that is by and large clean the gambling and horse racing industries can come up and tries to make sure that it delivers on its social with something that they are both willing to sign up to, responsibilities for the small and unfortunate minority which satisfies basic principles of fairness on each side, of people who suffer from gambling addiction. That is it is not up to politicians to second-guess or contradict not the case in many other countries. what the two industries can agree. We want to come up 23WH Horse Racing (Funding) 22 NOVEMBER 2011 24WH

[John Penrose] Human Rights (Colombia) with something that is both enforceable and sustainable, 10.59 am so that when a new contract comes to an end there is a Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab): series of incentives and potential downsides for both It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, industries that force them back to the table. That would Mr Williams, and may I express my appreciation to ensure that they need to negotiate a successor contract Mr Speaker for having selected this important debate? or agreement so that the arrangement does not just come to an end after five years. If we can arrange those The conflict in Colombia is one of the oldest on kinds of incentives, we will have that long sought after the planet and it spans some 50 years. Technically, the arrangement where racing will become in the best possible fighting is between Colombian Government official sense of the word a normal sport that does not depend armed forces and various guerrilla groups such as the on politicians and does not require Ministers or anybody ELN—the national liberation army—and FARC. The from the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, situation, however, is more complicated because of the and where the phrase “Hello, I’m here from the large number of right-wing paramilitaries, who operate Government, and I’m here to help” does not send a chill with almost complete impunity, systematically murdering through the blood. the ordinary people of Colombia in droves, and an army that clearly colludes and co-operates with them. I requested this debate because we need to send the Colombian Government a clear message. Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab): I have with me a statement on Colombia issued jointly by the Governments of Colombia and of the United Kingdom, and I understand that an important visit took place yesterday.The statement contains, however, no reference whatever to the trade unions, or—as far as I can see on a quick reading—to any of the Churches. Does my hon. Friend find that somewhat interesting? Jim Sheridan: My right hon. Friend raises an important point; he has a proud track record of looking at situations in terms of human rights. I hope that the Minister will take his comments on board and perhaps clarify that point. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Jeremy Browne): I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the debate at this early stage. I have just hosted a meeting in the Foreign Office that was held by the President of Colombia and at which a range of non-governmental organisations, including representatives from trade unions and Christian organisations, had the opportunity to make those points directly to him as part of a wider conversation. Jim Sheridan: I thank the Minister for that clarification. I do not want to sound negative, but the all-party British-Latin America group arranged a meeting with President Santos for yesterday and, unfortunately, not much notice was given to the rest of us, so we heard about a meeting scheduled for Monday afternoon only on Monday morning. Speaking personally, it was almost impossible to get to that meeting, but had we known about it earlier, even more trade unionists and similar people would have attended. Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab): We hear the Minister’s comments, but if we as a country attack those in the middle east who kill their own people—in particular, I highlight Syria and other countries where there have been problems—should we not do the same with Colombia? Many MPs have tried over many years to raise the issue of Colombia and highlight the fact that many innocent people, mainly trade unionists, are being killed. Should our Government not send a clear message to the Colombian Government that we will not tolerate that, and that we want to highlight things that are taking place on a daily basis? 25WH Human Rights (Colombia)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Human Rights (Colombia) 26WH

Jim Sheridan: That is the objective of this debate: we uniforms that the mothers had never seen before, despite are sending a clear message to the Colombian Government their sons having lived at home. Remarkably, although that what they are doing is simply unacceptable. We the bodies had bullet holes, the uniforms they were have sent clear messages to Syria and other countries on wearing did not. The killing of a FARC terrorist earned exactly the same issue. the soldiers extra holiday. Killing an innocent boy and stuffing the body in a FARC uniform was—and still Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): My hon. Friend is is—common practice. more fortunate than me, as my invitation to yesterday’s The Colombian human rights movement calls such meeting is yet to arrive. I believe, however, that we, as actions false positives. Thousands of people have been parliamentarians, should send an important message to killed in that way, many while President Santos was President Santos: in addition to the points raised this Defence Minister. When I visited Colombia in 2009, the morning, we want to congratulate him on the courageous United Nations stated that the number of killings carried stand he is making to challenge the system that results out by the Colombian army could constitute a crime in the prohibition of drugs throughout the world. We against humanity. It also said that the figure for such wholeheartedly support him on that. killings that have not resulted in any conviction stands at 98%, and according to the Colombian Commission Jim Sheridan: I am more than happy to concur with of Jurists, impunity for crimes committed by the army my hon. Friend, but, although I do not wish to be or paramilitaries stands at 99%—a shocking situation. cynical, we have heard those words before. We are now The current Government under Juan Manuel Santos— at the stage where rhetoric is no longer acceptable and who I am happy to say is visiting London today; he is we are looking for deeds. very welcome—have pledged that many things will change, and the international community is watching closely. David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): I congratulate Nevertheless, the number of ordinary Colombian civilians the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. We know being killed is as high as before. Since President Santos about the history of Colombia and the human rights came to power, 110 social activists have been killed, and abuses, and that it is probably the capital of drug 29 human rights defenders were killed in the first half of barons. Furthermore, UN figures and the research papers this year. No one has been brought to trial for any of cite 26,500 cases of presumed forced disappearance, those murders. and there are major concerns that Colombia is a network for people trafficking. Organisations such as the A21 Sadly, just two weeks ago, the highly respected NGO, campaign, and other groups in England, are greatly the Centre for Investigation and Popular Education, concerned. Does he agree that it is possible that people reported that under President Santos the army has are being trafficked around the world? continued to carry out extrajudicial executions—nine so far—and to report murdered civilians as guerrillas killed in combat. Amnesty International states: Jim Sheridan: The hon. Gentleman is right—human trafficking in Colombia is an extremely important issue “The security forces’ counter-insurgency strategy is largely that I hope we will address seriously. based on the premise that those living in conflict areas are part of the enemy”. The international community will not remain silent Let me give some examples. Just last month, on while human rights abuses continue, and we must make 13 October, a student, Yan Lugo, was killed by a bomb clear our support for a proper peace process in Colombia. thrown into a student demonstration in Cali. He was The conflict will end only with a peace process between nearly blown in half. Ten other students were severely the Government and the guerrilla groups, and the UK wounded. The police accused him of being blown up by Government should do everything in their power to a bomb that he was carrying. All the students deny that, encourage all parties in the conflict to enter into serious but—surprise, surprise—no investigation has taken place, negotiations. We must support civil society’s efforts for as far as we know. peace. The authorities, and particularly the armed forces, An even more brutal story appeared earlier this year readily label any ordinary Colombian, especially rural when three women from one family were massacred— peasants or any Colombian they like—or, more accurately, butchered to death—by paramilitaries, in addition to do not like—a terrorist. They then kill or butcher them, two farm workers being shot. Those people were killed or at best arrest them and lock them in jail without with machetes. The youngest, five-year-old Sorith Roa, proper charges or trial. Until recently, the army offered had her hands chopped off. That happened on the same holiday bonuses or promotions to personnel who captured day that 1,000 local peasants organised an event to give or killed a FARC guerrilla, so it is hardly surprising that testimony of army abuses in the region. It happened in innocent people were being rounded up, shot and dressed an area controlled by the army, which, it seems, did as terrorists. nothing whatever about it and let it happen. Why were those women murdered? Was five-year-old Sorith a Two years ago, I visited Colombia together with FARC guerrilla? some colleagues, and I met with mothers who told me how their sons had been murdered. The authorities said Those are just two examples of what continues to go that the boys were FARC guerrillas, and the army had on in Colombia today, and still no one is brought to even set up false employment recruitment agencies to justice. offer those poor boys jobs in the countryside before simply executing them. Boys as young as 16 met that Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab): I, too, took fate. Other mothers told us of sons who were killed and part in the visit to Colombia in 2009. Like me, my hon. then dressed in guerrilla uniforms. When the mothers Friend will be aware that people are murdered—shot to went to see the bodies, their sons were wearing FARC death, their bodies riddled with bullets. Then a camouflage 27WH Human Rights (Colombia)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Human Rights (Colombia) 28WH

[Jim McGovern] I fully appreciate that President Santos has introduced, as the flagship of his approach, the land and victims uniform is put on them, but there are no bullet holes in law, the stated intention of which is to return land to the the uniform, so there is no investigation. Does he agree peasants from whom it has been stolen since 1991 and that that is outrageous? to compensate people who have been the victims of human rights abuses since 1986. However, the reality is Jim Sheridan: That is a classic example of how the that even if the web of quasi-legal documents that now Colombian authorities carry out their business. My tie that land to big business or even multinationals is hon. Friend is absolutely right. He was with me, and we untangled and even if, as is unlikely, peasants can win a spoke to the mothers of the poor young men who were claim to some land, they are likely to suffer the same assassinated—massacred—in exactly the way he describes. fate as Ana Fabricia Cordoba—a community leader To return to the question of people being brought to killed on 7 June this year. She had repeatedly told justice, 98% of the crimes that we are discussing were authorities that she was receiving death threats, but carried out under the army’s nose. I fully appreciate that nothing was done to provide her with protection. She President Santos has promised widespread reform and had led the community’s demand for their stolen land “democratic prosperity”. One of his announcements to be returned. She fled her home region in 2001, after was that he would disband the Colombian security her husband was murdered. She was killed 11 months police force, known as the DAS, which was notorious after her son was also murdered—a crime allegedly for its widespread links with paramilitaries. He has also carried out by the police. set up an investigation into the links between DAS Jim McGovern: Last week, Aidee Moreno—a Colombian police and the paramilitaries. However, the 6,000 DAS trade unionist—visited Parliament. Her entire family staff are simply to be divided up among a new intelligence has been targeted because of her trade union activities. agency, the Office of the Attorney General, which is Her brother, husband and mother have been brutally charged with investigating crimes, and the Office of the murdered by paramilitaries. Her niece has disappeared, Prosecutor General. Therefore, that so-called reform, never to be seen again. Under the provisions of the land rather than purging one institution of its links to and victims law, Aidee Moreno would be due some paramilitarism and crime, will place its members within financial compensation. However, she does not seek the institutions charged with investigating those links. compensation, because she says that it You could not make it up, Mr Williams. “doesn’t compensate for all those years of suffering and injustice.” Furthermore, the national security doctrine that governed Will my hon. Friend join me in sending best wishes and the DAS will remain unchanged, which means that the regards to Aidee Moreno? new intelligence agency is likely to continue to view the political opposition and social movements as allies of Jim Sheridan: I, too, had the privilege and pleasure of subversion. meeting that brave young woman, who has put her life Under President Uribe, Colombia pushed through a on the line for people in her community. I have to say, justice and peace law that allegedly saw paramilitary unfortunately, that time will tell whether her bravery is forces demobilise. From that moment on, the Government rewarded or whether she is found dead—killed—as have said that paramilitaries no longer exist. The growth well. We complain about the problems in relation to of abuses by successor groups has forced the Government workers’ rights and trade unions in this country; it is a to recognise the violence, and they now call them “criminal humbling experience then to see what happens to people bands”. However, that does not recognise the political in Colombia who stand up for their basic human rights. and economic control that paramilitaries continue to The reality is that paramilitaries still control large exert in vast regions of the country, and it reduces the regions of Colombia and that, while the army continues murders that they commit to random acts of violence, to collude with them, nothing will change. Until the rather than classing them as politically motivated crimes. Government acknowledge that paramilitarism still exists Furthermore, the complicity and co-operation of as a major force, despite Uribe’s justice and peace law Government forces with the groups continues. In the and the supposed demobilisation, and unless they recognise Casa Zinc massacre in Montecristo at 7 pm on 17 August, the political motivation behind the abuses committed paramilitaries tortured and killed three peasants. Army by those groups, nothing will change. troops were stationed nearby, but did not intervene. On The land and victims law would be workable in a 12 October, the San José peace community denounced truly post-conflict situation, but this is not a post-conflict army and paramilitary co-operation in the region, situation and illegal armed groups are everywhere. cataloguing a series of abuses, including threats, illegal Additionally, peasant farmers continue to be displaced searches and recruitment of minors. On 16 August, and those new victims will not be recognised. It is also Rafael Andres Gonzalez Garnica, a peasant trade unionist, disturbing that the victims, if they are to be recompensed was assassinated in Cartagena del Chaira, Caqueta, an in any way under the land and victims law, are forced to operational centre for the army, only a block from a waive the right to seek justice for the crime that has police checkpoint. been committed against them. They literally have to An independent report by the New Rainbow Corporation sign a document saying that they will not seek an states that, in some areas in Colombia, paramilitary investigation into the murder or their mother, father or forces follow once the army establishes control and that husband. How can that possibly provide people with in others any dignity or peace of mind? “some members of the military forces seem to be one” Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): My hon. Friend rightly with paramilitary groups. That helps to explain why highlights the fact that the supposed aim of victims many human rights abuses occur in areas that the army law 1448 is to offer victims restitution, but will not controls. victims be unable meaningfully to pursue restitution 29WH Human Rights (Colombia)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Human Rights (Colombia) 30WH when they are still at risk in circumstances of ongoing The land and victims law effectively divides the victims conflict? Does the law not fail to protect victims in movement, recognising some victims and rejecting others, many respects? Does it not offer protection to the depending on when the abuse occurred. It also divides victim makers? Is there not also the question of how victims into those who think a little compensation is indigenous people are meant to gain access to their better than justice, therefore playing on the desperation lands when so many mining rights have been granted of the usually poor victims. For those who try to go over huge areas? home, the continuing existence of paramilitary groups makes doing so a deadly proposition. Jim Sheridan: My hon. Friend is absolutely right: it is Although the President should be given credit for almost impossible for indigenous people in Colombia finally recognising the existence of victims, the land and to reclaim their land, not simply because of the fear of victims law has done more for the Government’s political death, but because of the behaviour of some large reputation than for victims themselves. Alongside this multinational companies, many of which are based in law, reforms are being made to the judiciary. That this country. Their behaviour in clearing peasants’ land includes returning cases involving crimes committed by is unforgiveable, and that must also be challenged. soldiers to military courts, opening the way for continued In addition to buying people off and failing to provide impunity, with no one being brought to justice for the any security to those trying to return to their land, the thousands of civilian executions that soldiers carried state has not put in place sufficient organisation to deal out in cold blood. with the millions of claims, and it still will not recognise To return to the ongoing extra-judicial executions any state responsibility for abuses. and the general human rights carnage, it is terribly sad that the Colombian Government refuse to acknowledge that politically motivated paramilitaries continue to Mr Jeremy Browne: The hon. Gentleman said that exist, that their own forces are responsible for extensive British companies, or at least companies based in Britain, killings and that, despite efforts to the contrary, no were driving indigenous people off their land in Colombia. progress has been made on impunity. I should be grateful if he named them, because I would wish to take up his concerns directly with those companies. Trade union activists in Colombia risk their lives in If he could name them now, that would be very helpful. their attempt to bargain collectively for better pay and conditions. Colombia is the most dangerous place in the world to be a trade unionist. In 2001, a British trade Jim Sheridan: I am absolutely delighted that the union delegation travelled to Colombia to meet colleagues Minister will take up that case on our behalf, and I will there. Its members were so horrified by what they send him the list of companies that we are investigating. encountered—the lack of basic human rights and a I am happy to provide him with that evidence. He can general free hand to kill trade unionists—that they then clearly tell us what actions he, as a Minister, will came back to Britain and, with other unions here, take. established the excellent NGO, Justice for Colombia, The land and victims law has arbitrarily established which belongs to every major UK trade union, such is different cut-off points for recompense. The cut-off the strength of feeling among unions here about the point is 1991 for victims of displacement and 1986 for basic right to pursue collectivism to improve working victims of human rights abuses, thus denying recompense conditions. to those who were made victims before those dates. The Some 2,908 trade unionists have been killed in Colombia land and victims law also arbitrarily sets 2005 as the end since 1986, and 23 have been killed this year alone. date for claims of victimhood. Victims must prove the Before anyone else mentions this, I should point out political nature of crimes committed against them after that the Vice-President is a former trade union leader. that date, because the paramilitaries are considered to The embassy seems to think that that will convince us have demobilised after 2005, despite masses of evidence that things have changed, but in reality, it has changed to the contrary. nothing for trade union activists. The land and victims law effectively legalises displacement At 10 pm on 16 August, trade union activist Rafael in cases where it is established that returning land would Andres Gonzalez Garnica was murdered while having affect a region’s economic interests. It fails to recognise dinner with friends in a restaurant. He was shot dead the phenomenon of urban displacement. Furthermore, just yards from a police checkpoint in the department the health and education benefits assigned to victims of Caqueta, which locals suspect was being manned by are not a form of recompense; rather, it is the duty of police and paramilitaries. On 22 August, trade union the state to provide such things to all Colombian citizens. activist Alfonso Diaz Villa was assassinated near his Worse still is the fact that, under the country’s new home. He was a regional leader of the university workers national development plan, priority will be given to union, SINTRAUNICOL, and he had been receiving industries such as mining and oil extraction. That rules death threats since 2005. Despite the danger in which out returning any lands that fall into those categories the union’s leaders find themselves, the Colombian where it is claimed that doing so would affect a region’s Government have suspended the protection scheme for economic interests. Ever more people are being displaced them, belying the regime’s claims that trade unionists as a means of gaining access to land that is rich in are given adequate protection. As usual, the murderers resources. In the Meta department, 2,500 families are are not brought to justice. According to Human Rights due to be pushed off their land by the armed forces. The Watch, people have been brought to justice in only 10% military has accused them of being FARC families, of cases, although almost 3,000 people have been killed. putting their lives in grave danger. Is it purely coincidental The British unions and their NGO, Justice for Colombia, that coltan—a highly valuable mineral—has been discovered formed a parliamentary group of MPs and lords. Together, in the area, which is also highly likely to contain oil? we will continue to fight for the safety, well-being and 31WH Human Rights (Colombia)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Human Rights (Colombia) 32WH

[Jim Sheridan] of state agencies and that a very small fraction were guerrilla movements such as FARC; but Amnesty reckoned rights of our friends in the Colombian trade union that more than 40% were connected to state forces. That movement and of others fighting for justice in Colombia. is an extremely troubling statistic in any country that Our main priority is to help to encourage the parties to aspires to democracy and the rule of law, as Colombia the Colombian conflict to engage in a proper peace clearly does. It has ratified international human rights process that achieves real social justice, because the conventions, and International Labour Organisation conflict will not end without it. A colleague will come conventions on the rights of trade unionists; yet until on to this issue in more detail later, but I want to last year, it had been on the ILO trade unionist rights highlight early-day motion 2276, which we have tabled blacklist for 21 years in succession. That is a pretty to that end. I call on the UK Government to use their appalling record. influence to support that aim. The Foreign Office has recognised the seriousness of Justice for Colombia and the MPs and peers in its the human rights situation in Colombia, and I have parliamentary group are often the subject of underhand many times praised and welcomed last year’s human slurs and insinuations, but we understand that that is rights report by the Department and the Secretary of par for the course, and we will not be deterred. Meanwhile, State, which highlighted issues about Colombia. It also I hope President Santos’s words will soon be translated highlighted another issue dear to my heart, since as well into actions. For too long, our intelligence has been as being an occasional Liberal Democrat spokesman, I insulted by the Colombian Government, who think that chair the all-party group on tribal peoples. The we will be convinced by flowery speeches and well-meaning Government’s report sets out very well the vulnerability words. The Colombian people have suffered enough—it of indigenous peoples. It is not only illegal armed is time to see action. groups but commercial interests—in mining, rubber and palm oil—that are effectively involved in land grabs and some of the worst violence against any communities 11.29 am in Colombia. Twelve people were killed in the worst Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I welcome the massacre, in 2009, of the Awa people, including a debate. It is timely that the hon. Member for Paisley three-year-old child and an eight-month-old baby. That and Renfrewshire North (Jim Sheridan) has obtained it is the level of violence and abuse. As always, tribal to coincide with the visit to this country of President people’s rights are connected to land rights. Santos. The account that the hon. Gentleman gave of the violence and abuse being meted out to individuals The present Government must be given some credit. and whole communities in Colombia was very moving The hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North and disturbing. While I expect the Government will talked about the victims law; ABColombia highlighted want to emphasise trade and positive co-operation on that and, indeed, many of its weaknesses and the interaction such things as climate finance during the visit—those with the economic situation. They nevertheless described things are extremely positive—it is right that human it as rights should play a prominent part in the debates “an important step forward in recognising the need to restore surrounding the visit, and in the Government’s specific land to Colombia’s victims.” discussions with President Santos. There is a slight danger that if we criticise every aspect The record is still very poor. The ABColombia group of progress we shall end up discrediting every attempt of British NGOs working in Colombia reported in to make progress. President Santos has made positive recent documentation that the total number of people statements. He has talked about the “firm and unavoidable assumed —even by the Colombian Attorney-General’s commitment” to the defence of human rights. office—to have disappeared for political reasons in Colombia is 27,000. That is an astonishing number. The My hon. Friend the Minister has been active in Catholic Fund for Overseas Development reports that positively promoting human rights in Colombia, seeking attacks on human rights defenders and community an active role for the embassy in co-ordinating with civil leaders have, if anything, escalated in recent years, society and the Government in recognising the importance despite the positive statements that President Santos of human rights and their defenders. On his August made when he came into office. In fact, it says that visit he met a variety of Colombian Ministers, including, 54 human rights defenders or community leaders have I notice, the Minister of Defence. Are we planning any been killed in the first year of the President’s term of co-operation with the Colombian Government on military- office. A local NGO reported 174 different acts of to-military links, to try to re-emphasise the role of the aggression or violence against human rights defenders. military in a democratic society? That role is difficult The hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North for some military establishments in new and fragile is right to highlight the position of trade unionists in democracies. We see it played out in Egypt, where the Colombia, which seems uniquely vulnerable. An military are reluctant to submit to full scrutiny and to International Confederation of Free Trade Unions survey full exposure of abuses that have been going on for this year reported that 49 trade unionists had been years. They are reluctant to step back from a role of killed in Colombia—more than ICFTU reported killed assumed oversight of the welfare of the country. However, in the whole of the rest of the world. Even the country’s that is what the military must do: they must be forced to Government admit that 37 people have been killed step back and tackle the abuses in their own organisation, simply for their trade union activities. Amnesty International and the connections, indeed, to some paramilitaries, tried to get to the source of the killings of trade which still clearly exist in Colombia. Are the British unionists, and its analysis suggested that roughly half Government actively promoting such change in the were paramilitary groups completely outside the control Colombian military? 33WH Human Rights (Colombia)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Human Rights (Colombia) 34WH

Apparently 298 members of the military have been “the immense majority of crimes [against] trade unionists remain convicted of human rights abuses, which is a positive in impunity…there have been advances in the investigations…but development. When President Santos was Minister we still have not”— of Defence he sacked 27 military officers, including I apologise for the American English that I am about to three generals, and as the hon. Member for Paisley use— and Renfrewshire North said, he disbanded the DAS “gotten to 200 court rulings, and there are thousands of workers organisation; so positive steps are being taken. and union leaders killed and disappeared.” That is absolutely true. Jim Sheridan: The hon. Gentleman is right; they were There are many reasons for that impunity. In particular, sacked—but none of them was prosecuted. under previous dispensations, it was in part because the Government did not want to deal with it or punish the Martin Horwood: That emphasises the importance of people responsible. In some cases, that was, as I said, seeing such commitments through, and taking a thorough due to corruption in parts of the judiciary, but in other approach to transparency and accountability among cases, it was due to intimidation of the judiciary. the military.I was going to say that although 298 convictions sound like a huge number, the total number of outstanding I think that the Attorney-General’s office would admit cases under investigation as of September 2011 was that although the sub-unit that has been dealing with 1,486. The figure of 298 is a fairly small percentage. specific issues regarding trade unionists since 2007 has had some success, a large amount of that success has I shall not take more time, because other hon. Members been because of the confessions that some people made want to speak. I recognise the positive work that the under the justice and peace process that was started Minister is doing to promote human rights in Colombia, back then. In fact, since 2007, there have been only six and it is welcome, but my fundamental question to him convictions in 195 cases regarding trade unionists. Lest is about the concrete steps he has managed to discuss people think that the situation is markedly better today, with the Colombian Government, to try to make a in 2010, within everyone’s accepted definition, there difference to the underlying violence and abuse that are were at least 51 cases of trade unionists being murdered, clearly still present in Colombian society. What steps and so far, only one case has been opened by the are we taking to collaborate with and support the Attorney-General’s office. The process of impunity Government in taking those concrete, definable steps? continues, not least because often, while the actual murderers may be prosecuted, the authors—those who Several hon. Members rose— have started, promoted and enabled the process and allowed it to continue—have rarely been touched by the Hywel Williams (in the Chair): Order. The wind-ups Attorney-General’s sub-unit. That is a major issue that will start at 10 past 12, and several hon. Members hope needs to be addressed. Many candidates were killed in to catch my eye, so I appeal to them to be brief. the run-up to last year’s local elections, and still we see complete impunity regarding those cases. 11.38 am When I was the Minister who had responsibility for Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): I congratulate my this area, I spoke clearly to the then Attorney-General, hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire to various Ministers in the Uribe Government and to North (Jim Sheridan) on securing the debate. It is President Uribe himself and outlined one of my concerns, timely not only because of the visit of President Santos: regarding the nature of the law of rebellion. If we had a it is important that the House should constantly remind law against rebellion in the United Kingdom, I think itself of the human rights problems in Colombia and, my hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul for that matter, other countries in Latin America. One Flynn) would be permanently in jail. The way that law is of the sadnesses for many hon. Members who have had used in Colombia in many cases brings its criminal dealings with Latin America is the fact that it is still one justice system into disrepute. Many people will say, of the continents most plagued by violence of many “But it is just an additional law. Someone must already kinds, and that it is also plagued by phenomenal poverty have been found guilty of another criminal offence”, and extraordinary wealth. Many of us hope that it will but that is one area in Colombia’s statute book that be a continent where the wealth of the land is more needs reform. evenly distributed between everyone. I have met President Santos on several occasions. He My hon. Friend has already outlined some specific spoke fine words in his inauguration speech and I think problems of Colombia, which include the fact that he intends them, but the question is whether he can see 5.2 million people have been displaced, more than in them through to a conclusion. It is great that one of the any other country, and despite the fact that the population first things he did was to achieve some kind of resolution is not enormous compared with many others. The process on the relationship with Venezuela. The Uribe-Chavez of displacement goes on. In 2010, according to many mutual hatred appreciation society did no favours for NGOs, another 280,000 people were displaced from either Venezuela or Colombia, in particular for the their land. poorest people living on the border between the two There is a hideous degree of corruption in many parts countries. of the state in Colombia, including the judiciary. That is I am delighted at the change in the mood music, one of the problems that has led to a significant degree especially regarding human rights defenders and workers. of impunity, to which my hon. Friend the Member for However, in the first six months of 2011, there was a Paisley and Renfrewshire North alluded, particularly 129% increase on the previous year in the number of for paramilitary groups of many different shapes, sizes attacks on human rights defenders. While I wholeheartedly and kinds. Indeed, Vice President Angelino Garzon support President Santos’s declared intentions, I want said in November 2010 that to see them pursued in reality. 35WH Human Rights (Colombia)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Human Rights (Colombia) 36WH

Jim McGovern: The hon. Member for Cheltenham 11.48 am (Martin Horwood) seemed to be saying that President Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): I pay tribute to my Santos’s visit is primarily about trade, industry and the hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire economy, and that human rights may possibly be discussed. North (Jim Sheridan) for securing the debate and for Does my hon. Friend agree that human rights should be his persistent campaigning. He clearly feels deeply about very high on the agenda, rather than an aside or an the tragedies that are taking place, and have been for afterthought? decades now, in Colombia. He is absolutely right to continue to draw them to the attention of the House. A low point was when we saw a British Foreign Office Chris Bryant: My hon. Friend predicts what I am Minister posing and smiling among a group— going to say. Yes, I have always believed that UK foreign Chris Bryant: Not me. policy needs to be pursued on parallel tracks. Of course we want to promote greater trade, but that trade must Paul Flynn: Not my hon. Friend. That Minister was be based on fairness and freedom. It cannot be based smiling with an army unit that was notorious for murdering just on our freedom to trade with people; it must be trade unionists. We have a record of plenty of indignation based on the freedom of people to live their lives with and horror at the atrocities that are going on, but little dignity and liberty. In Colombia, that has been difficult practical progress that we can see. to achieve in many cases. I agree with those who say that we should seize the opportunity offered by the words of Santos and give That is why I want to raise the issue of the European him the benefit of the doubt—there are many reasons Union free trade agreement. Originally, the agreement for doubting his sincerity, due to his past. However, he was meant to be with several central American countries, is now speaking a language that no one else has spoken but some wanted to pull out. Now, it is envisaged as just for a long time in Colombia. The President of Mexico being with Colombia and Peru. I passionately believe has made a similar plea to the one made by Santos the that the agreement has to be a mixed one. It should not other day—Mexico has lost 40,000 people in the past just be about trade, and so should not just be the sole five years due to drug trafficking and the drug wars—to responsibility of the European Commission. It is vital address the core of the problem, which started not last that when Europe pursues FTAs, they include human year or 10 years ago, but in 1961, when the world rights issues and issues about weapons of mass decided, through the United Nations, that all illegal destruction—not because I think Colombia has a WMD, drug use throughout the world should be eliminated. It but because we cannot have one form of FTA in one was a simple matter: we had only to increase the part of the world and a completely different form in punishments and the surveillance and, within a decade another part. It is therefore important that the Commission or two, there would be no use of illegal drugs. In does not deal with the issue on its own, and that the Britain, we passed the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. We agreement is ratified in the Parliaments of each EU had fewer than 1,000 people addicted to heroin and member state. cocaine then; now we have 320,000. That pattern has gone on throughout the world. Santos is right to say For instance, in our Parliament, we could have a that the divisions in his country, the armies that are united position to say, “Yes, we want greater and better funded entirely by money from drugs and the chaos trade with Colombia.” I know that the Scotch whisky that exists in many other South American countries are industry has long been keen to have an improved problems that we in the west, and particularly in the relationship with Colombia and, for that matter, Peru, United Kingdom, have created. but it cannot ignore the human rights abuses that are Last week, the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs self-evident in Colombia and, increasingly, in Peru. I and Drug Addiction published a report that identified hope that the Minister will reply that that is the process the United Kingdom as the second largest consumer of we are going to adopt, although I note that the Commission cocaine in our continent. The other countries that use keeps trying to squirm its way out, so that it ends up in a drugs in similar record amounts are the United States position where it decides just on its own. and Spain. The reason for the chaos in South American I want to pay a little tribute to the British ambassador countries is the demand that is coming from this country. and his staff in Colombia. I will spare his blushes, but We have mistaken the use of coca and cocaine. Coca Mr John Dew is, I think, one of the finest diplomats has been used for centuries, particularly in Bolivia, as employed by the Foreign Office. Colombia is a an appetite suppressant and to guard against altitude phenomenally difficult environment to work in, where sickness. The way it was ingested ensured that there was difficult security measures have to be adopted, but he no narcotic effect. In the west, however, cocaine is has carried that off with aplomb. I also pay tribute to ingested in a manner that produces the narcotic effect. the many other British people who have worked in To a great extent, therefore, the problem is ours. If we extremely difficult circumstances in our embassy in are looking for some way to reduce this, we should Colombia. listen to what Santos is saying now. He is bravely calling for a new look at drugs, perhaps including the legalisation I very much hope that we will not say that our foreign of the use of cocaine and other drugs. He realises that policy is just about trying to sell more things to foreigners. he is taking a great risk and that he will be mocked and It also has to be about trying to achieve a fair world, not denounced, particularly by the United States. least because British businesses cannot do business in Sir Keith Morris, former British ambassador to other countries if the rights of indigenous people are Colombia, said: trampled on, if violence is a daily transaction that “Those of us who have campaigned for serious debate on the people have to make to survive, and if people do not issue have been frustrated by the number of senior politicians have enough to live on. who have agreed with us but said they could not take a public 37WH Human Rights (Colombia)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Human Rights (Colombia) 38WH stand for fear of committing political suicide due to a hostile the grave crime of living in a region where there is a reaction from the US administration or public opinion or, in the guerrilla presence. As such, they are rounded up and UK, from the Daily Mail.” imprisoned. How true that is. When we talk to one another and Examples of recent detentions include the arrest on discuss these things—[Interruption.] Does the hon. Member 22 August of four members of FENSUAGRO, the for Gloucester (Richard Graham) want me to give way? Colombian agricultural workers’ union, who were detained He does not. We know from private discussions among in Putumayo. Two more of their colleagues from the consenting MPs that there is general agreement that the region were detained, on 30 June and 7 August. All are drug laws are disastrous and that prohibition is increasing accused of “rebellion” and continue to be held in Mocoa the problem. We must take a fresh look at the problem, prison, Putumayo. which is what Santos is calling for. Sir Keith Morris went on : On 2 October, eight social leaders, including trade unionists, human rights defenders, teachers and students, “The fact that the president of Colombia, the country that has were detained in Neiva and Caqueta. On 16 October, paid the highest price and fought hardest in the war on drugs, should have been prepared to speak out so courageously should more peasant farmers were detained arbitrarily in the inspire the many in American and European political circles who municipality of La Uribe, Meta. share his view about the failure of the war on drugs at last to When I visited the prison, I met Liliany Obando, who make their voices heard.” left a lasting impression on us. She is an academic and The problem and the bloodshed in Colombia would be trade unionist who, like many MPs and union leaders, best undermined if there was an act of courage by was imprisoned for highlighting the killings of trade European and world politicians. We must face up to the unionists. Liliany is accused of “rebellion” and has been awful fact that it is the result of prohibition that is detained since 8 August 2008 without being convicted killing people in South America and on the streets of of any crime. Her legal process is marred by severe our cities. irregularities and arbitrary delays. The supposed evidence against her has been used in numerous cases against members of the opposition and has been ruled 11.53 am “inadmissible”in one of those separate cases. Her defence continues to be denied full access to this “evidence”. Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab): Her lawyers have submitted 16 appeals against what I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to were considered unfounded legal decisions, yet all were the debate. I have been to Colombia on two occasions. denied, with no legitimate reason provided. My first visit was some 10 years ago. I went to the rain forest and met a community of Afro-Colombians who In June, Liliany was moved to a patio that she now had been displaced from their homes. It was an experience shares with paramilitaries, and she is allowed outside that I will never forget. No one in this Chamber today for only one hour per week. The Colombian Government, has anything but the best wishes and best intentions for through their embassy in the UK, have claimed that Colombia and for the Colombian people. We should that action was taken for Liliany’s own safety. She has recognise where progress has been made and the rhetoric faced physical abuse from prison guards and been denied has certainly changed with the new president, but, as we many visits in recent months. When I met her she said have heard quite graphically, the rhetoric does not that necessarily match up to the reality. Human Rights “even though we are imprisoned, we don’t give up our struggle, Watch has said that there has been virtually no progress we retain our principles and our morals. We are women who can in bringing to justice the killers of trade unionists. We change things.” want progress now. Fine words have been said far too Those words have been lodged in my memory ever often in the past. since. I want to concentrate on the situation that faces Another example is Professor Miguel Angel Beltran, political prisoners in Colombia. Two years ago, I went who is a member of the academics’ trade union and a to the country with my colleagues from Justice for well known critical thinker. He was accused of “rebellion” Colombia. I saw the horrors faced by trade unionists, and imprisoned from 23 May 2009 until 7 June 2011, members of the opposition, community leaders and when he was finally absolved in respect of the charges human rights activists. One of my most tragic and against him. Just one day after Miguel’s arrest, the then heart-wrenching experiences was visiting the women’s President, Uribe, publicly accused him of being one of prison in Bogota. We visited patio 6, which is where the most dangerous terrorists of the FARC. Of course, trade unionists and other critics of the regime are President Uribe was famous for describing as a terrorist locked up simply for defending the rights that we hold anyone who suits him. He used a few fine words against dear, including the right to protest, the right to organise me and some of my colleagues during our visit to and the right to freedom of expression. Colombia. Basic human rights are constantly denied and that is Despite the fact that Dr Beltran was absolved of any repeated in prisons all over the country. Leading activists crime, the Office of the Inspector General opened a new are arrested and accused of “rebellion”, which is a disciplinary procedure against him, based on the evidence catch-all charge used to imprison critical voices. They that has already been disproved at his trial. If Dr Beltran are accused of being guerrilla collaborators simply for is wrongly convicted, that will yet again prevent him exercising their right to criticise and organise. Thousands from working and teaching as an academic. Ministers of political prisoners live a precarious existence in which and the mainstream Colombian media have also continued they are often held for months or years without trial. to describe him as a terrorist. For example, in an interview They are denied due process, medical care and their with El Tiempo on 27 June 2011, the Minister of the freedom. Others are simply peasants who have committed Interior referred to Dr Beltran as “Cienfuegos”, which 39WH Human Rights (Colombia)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Human Rights (Colombia) 40WH

[Sandra Osborne] The Church that I belong to and that I suspect some others in this Chamber belong to, and that many people is his supposed terrorist alias. That was particularly outside of this Chamber belong to, supports missionaries concerning given that, on paper, that Minister had in many parts of the world and it specifically supports agreed to provide Dr Beltran with a security scheme Christians in Colombia. I just want to highlight some of because of concerns about his security and threats the issues that concern that Church. against his life. That promise is yet to be fulfilled. We are all very aware of the deadly FARC extremists Instead, since his release Dr Beltran has faced threats who are trying to hold sway in Colombia; they are the and phone interceptions, a USB has been robbed from longest-operating left-wing guerrilla group in Latin America. his apartment and he has learned of plans for his I want to focus on the human rights abuses and the assassination, which state that it will be carried out by violence in Colombia that deliberately target churches either forced disappearance or faked accident. and their leaders for standing up to the guerrillas and [ANNETTE BROOKE in the Chair] their armed rebellion. Those are just a few examples of the many political In the time that I have today, I just want to highlight prisoners in Colombia, whose existence the Colombian some of those abuses; I am conscious of the issues, but I Government deny. In meetings held with the Colombian will not dwell on them too long. There is a catalogue of ambassador to the UK, that issue causes the most examples of how the FARC guerrillas have deliberately anger. The ambassador vehemently denies that any targeted churches and the work that they do. The guerrillas political prisoners exist in Colombia. The Colombian have tried to close the churches and stop the prayer Government’s argument is that the judiciary and executive meetings and gatherings of the people who attend them. branches of government are separate, and that the By and large, however, the churches have managed to Government have no political influence over the judiciary. stand up to the guerrillas, and it is good that they have That is blatantly untrue. Time and again, we have seen done so. instances of political bias in legal cases, impunity for There is not only human rights abuses against Christians the killers and legal set-ups of the victims. We know by the FARC extremists, but diminution of human that, although Santos does not attack the judiciary as rights and Christian activity by the Colombian state, Uribe did, there continues to be a paramilitary influence and I wanted to highlight some examples of that state in many cases. activity. The Indigenous Municipal Council has suffered Colombia’s political prisoners are not mentioned in a number of violations, including violations against the international media, unlike political prisoners in 3,000 indigenous Christians in the province of Cauca. Burma or Zimbabwe. The majority of the British public The hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra do not know of the tragic scenarios being played out Osborne) said she had some difficulty with some of around Colombia, where trade unionists, academics these Colombian words and so have I. As an Ulster and human rights activists are subjected to indefinite Scot with a very distinct Ulster accent, it is sometimes periods of imprisonment. They are kept away from difficult to get my tongue around some of these words. their children and held in terrible conditions. The governor of Cauca ordered property to be removed We do not hear of the beatings of prisoners, the mass from some people in the province. On 17 December last hunger strikes or the lack of water. On 2 December last year, a council man was murdered because he was a year, a prisoner died after being beaten by prison guards. Christian. On 3 February this year, a Christian family Earlier this year, hunger strikers in Valledupar prison were forced out of their burning home. The leaders of sewed their mouths up after being denied proper access the Indigenous Municipal Council and 20 Christian to water. The response of the authorities was to attack families were also forcibly moved. A pastor, his nine-year-old the prisoners. daughter and a woman from the pastor’s church were I will never forget the experience of seeing single killed because they stood up to the abuse of Christians. mothers and babies being locked up over the mothers’ Another pastor’s wife was killed, and other people have trade union activities. As we condemn that practice in been imprisoned. Clearly, there has been a catalogue of other countries, so too must we condemn it in Colombia. discrimination and brutal attacks on members of the This is a systematic pattern of action being used to Christian community. silence critical voices and it shows that, on the ground, There have also been political attacks on people. In Colombia is very far from being the democracy that its many villages in Colombia, especially on the western leaders claim it is. coast, the guerrillas are writing threatening messages on walls and deliberately targeting people in the villages to Several hon. Members rose— get them to vote for the candidates that the guerrillas support in elections. Annette Brooke (in the Chair): Order. I remind hon. I also want to comment on the issue of religious Members that the winding-up speeches will begin at freedom and on the restrictions that exist in Colombia. 12.10 pm. I call Jim Shannon. In 1991, the Colombian constitution respected religious freedom and practice, and it also mandated the separation 12.2 pm of church and state, which is a principle I support. However, the Catholic Church retains a de facto privilege Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the and status in Colombia. Also, the state recognises as hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Jim legally binding only those religious marriages celebrated Sheridan) on securing this debate and on bringing this by the Catholic Church. Members of the 13 non-Catholic matter to the House. I want to highlight an issue that religious organisations, which are not signatories to the perhaps has not been touched upon, which is the human constitutional agreement, must marry in a civil ceremony. rights of Christians in Colombia. So I again highlight the fact that there is clear human 41WH Human Rights (Colombia)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Human Rights (Colombia) 42WH rights abuse and discrimination against those people. Since the action plan was signed, 16 trade unionists Also, the Treasury Department in Colombia imposes a have been assassinated. In normal circumstances, I would 4% tax on all tithes, offerings and charitable contributions have gone on in much greater detail about the problems to certain churches. I contribute to much missionary faced by trade unions, but they have been well documented work—I know that other people do as well—and in today. However, I ask the Minister: did he take these Colombia there is also a 17% tax on all financial concerns up with President Santos in his meeting earlier assistance received from abroad. today, and what further action does he propose the Those are the points that I want the Minister to British Government take to address all the trade union respond to. I am sorry that I do not have time to and human rights violations, in the context of the trade develop them more, but I look forward to hearing his agreement that is likely to come forward at a European response. level?

Annette Brooke (in the Chair): I call Mr Andy Love to 12.10 pm speak. I am afraid that you have only three minutes. Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire 12.7 pm North (Jim Sheridan) on securing the debate. The number Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): Thank of Members wanting to speak, intervene and listen you, Mrs Brooke, for calling me to speak. shows the strength of feeling about the issue. The I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley debate is very timely, coinciding as it does with President and Renfrewshire North (Jim Sheridan) on securing Santos’s visit. this debate and on securing it in the week that President My hon. Friend provided us, as did a number of Santos is in the UK. One hopes that not only the other speakers, with compelling accounts of human Minister but President Santos himself will hear the rights abuses in Colombia, in particular concerns about concerns that are being expressed today. comrades in the Colombian trade union movement. He I will speak briefly about trade unionists. My hon. said that Colombia is the most dangerous place in the Friend and indeed all Members who have spoken in the world to be a trade unionist, with 2,908 of them killed debate have touched upon the habitual abuses committed since 1986 and 23 so far this year. He expressed his deep against trade unionists in Colombia. During the past concern about impunity, about the lack of prosecution 25 years, 3,000 trade unionists have been murdered, of those responsible for the killings. He also expressed often in front of their families. I will come back to that some scepticism about whether the warm words and issue in a moment, but before I do so it is important that rhetoric of President Santos, who was elected last year, we discuss the current Colombian Government’s approach would be matched by action, and about the how the to trade union rights. land and victims law will work in practice. I shall come to that. For some time, Colombia has been seeking to reach a free trade agreement with the European Union—that My hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris was touched upon by my hon. Friend—and with the Bryant) talked about the EU free trade agreement, and United States, Canada and other countries. President he is right that it should not be just about trade. When Obama was deeply unhappy about the human rights we enter into such negotiations, it is important to use situation in Colombia and talked about it in his campaign the leverage that they give us to put human rights issues speeches. As one means of going some way to addressing on the table as well. He said that foreign policy should the situation facing any organised labour in Colombia— not just be about selling more to foreigners, and I workers need that help in Colombia, where people entirely agree. work in the most basic of conditions in a mineral-rich My hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul country, earning a pittance while making millions for Flynn) raised the important issue of the impact of the multinationals—the Colombian Government agreed, drugs trade and consumption in the west on communities under pressure, to what was called a labour action plan. in Colombia and Mexico. He said that the UK, the US That was stipulated by the Americans as a condition of and Spain are the largest consumers of cocaine. It is their entering into a free trade agreement with Colombia. said that a line of coke snorted here results in a death Some of the measures included in that plan held out back in Colombia—a compelling image. When President promise of improving labour and human rights, and Santos addressed the all-party British-Latin America they were widely trumpeted as if they would resolve the group yesterday, he was asked about that and he said labour rights situation. that it is not just the link between cocaine consumption Now, more than seven months since that action plan here and the violence in Colombia but the really serious was signed, all three federations of the Colombian issue of deforestation and land grabbing. We ought to labour movement and the highly respected ENS trade factor in the significant environmental impact of consuming union school have said that they were not consulted in cocaine in the west. the drawing-up of the action plan and that the Colombian We of course welcome President Santos on his visit Government have failed to implement the measures to the UK. It is a very important opportunity for outlined in that plan, because: dialogue, not just on human rights but on other issues “the State as a whole is not committed to the Action Plan related of great importance to the relationship between our to Labour rights”. nations, such as trade, the environment and working The ENS trade union school has said: together on technology transfer. Yesterday, the President “the new labor agenda is not a reality, since business owners and was particularly keen to flag up education, and whether public servants continue to broadly violate labor and union Colombia can learn from and adapt our approach to rights.” training and skills in the UK, which is somewhat ironic 43WH Human Rights (Colombia)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Human Rights (Colombia) 44WH

[Kerry McCarthy] suggesting that there is one solution. It is an incredibly complex situation to unravel, but President Santos’s given that the trade union movement has been so involved rhetoric is very welcome. Recently, there has been significant in pushing that agenda here. As today’s debate has progress in tackling some of the violence that has shown however, the human rights situation in Colombia plagued the country over the past 50 years. FARC’s continues to be our gravest concern. I appreciate the activities have been curtailed, but there is genuine concern President’s willingness to address that issue in a full and that a more fragmented organisation is less likely to frank manner with the all-party group yesterday, and come to the negotiating table. also at the meeting I attended with the Leader of the Does the Minister see a particular role for the UK? It Opposition and the shadow Foreign Secretary straight has been flagged up a number of times that given our afterwards, when we discussed in depth concerns about history of negotiating with groups, particularly in Northern the continued violence in Colombia and impunity, in Ireland, and given the recent decision by ETA, there particular attacks on human rights defenders and trade might be lessons to be learnt that could help the Colombian unionists. Government in their discussions with FARC. President Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I am sorry Santos has indicated that he is very willing to pursue that I missed the early part of the debate; I was in a such negotiations. Select Committee. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is President Santos’s announcement in the past month a collective failure by the European Union, the International about disbanding DAS, the administrative department Labour Organisation and the Inter-American Court of of security, is a very welcome step given the allegations Human Rights that none of the human rights elements of collusion with paramilitaries, illegal surveillance, in the trade and other international agreements that corruption and harassment of judges, journalists and Colombia has signed up to has been enforced at local politicians. The President has said: level, and that therefore the disappearances of very “The country knows why we have decided to take this step,” brave human rights defenders and the abuse of their and that is, I think, both a tacit admission that the human rights continue? allegations against DAS were well founded, and an Kerry McCarthy: I agree that past attempts to put important signal that the President wants to restore the pressure on Colombian Governments have not been integrity of his country’s intelligence services. effective. Impunity, at 98% or thereabouts, is a shocking Nevertheless, there are understandably still concerns statistic. It is important, and I will ask the Minister about the human rights situation. In the first year of the about this in a moment, that we use any leverage we Santos Administration 54 human rights defenders were have, anything within our power, to try to push that killed, there has been a significant increase in gender-based agenda along to ensure that it is not just warm words violence, and there are concerns about the future of about human rights but that action is taken on the indigenous peoples—campesinos and Afro-Colombians— ground to protect them. President Santos was prepared who have been displaced from their land to make way to meet the non-governmental organisations today. I for drug and palm oil plantations and cattle ranching, was not aware yesterday that trade unions would be which the United Nations has described as ethnic cleansing. involved in that meeting, and it is very important that It is not up there with the human rights abuses involving they were. Anything the Minister can do to ensure killings, but displacement is important, as is the question better dialogue between the people from the trade union whether the new land and victims law will provide movement who have visited Colombia and the Colombian reparation and restitution for those people. What role regime is an important step forward. does the Minister feel Britain has to play, particularly Anyone who has met human rights campaigners from when British commercial interests are involved in such Colombia cannot fail to be moved by their stories. A land grabs? How does he think that we can resolve the week or two ago I met some women who were talking issue and return land to people? about the shocking rise in gender-based violence and I know that the Minister has visited Colombia twice the use of rape in the conflict. President Santos was not and that he met President Santos in Peru as well as this able to explain why there has been such a dramatic week. He has had a lot of time to get a feel for the new increase over the past year or two, and the assessments regime. Does he feel that the agenda is moving forward that have been made seem to indicate that the violence and that we are making progress in pushing Colombia is being carried out by the guerrilla movement, on human rights abuses? In particular, what has he paramilitaries in particular, and the security forces, and learned from this week’s visit? that women are being targeted across the board. I hope that issue is very much on the Minister’s radar. 12.20 pm Eric Joyce (Falkirk) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth agree that we tend to conflate the issues of drugs and Office (Mr Jeremy Browne): Thank you, Mrs Brooke, human rights in Colombia but that human rights problems for giving me this first opportunity to serve under your existed long before the country was effectively the centre chairmanship. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for of the world as far as cocaine production was concerned? Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Jim Sheridan) for Any solution, therefore, must not simply involve killing securing the debate and for his ongoing interest in the the likes of Alfonso Cano but have social justice at its subject. core. We all agree that we want to do whatever we can to Kerry McCarthy: I agree. It is a complex situation, reduce human rights abuses in Colombia. I do not think involving drug wars, the political situation, the role of that I have ever met anybody who believes that British FARC, the land grab and commercial interests. I am not foreign policy should solely be about selling things to 45WH Human Rights (Colombia)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Human Rights (Colombia) 46WH foreigners, so let us start with the assumption that we all in Britain. I suspect that the way that the politician was have greater ambitions than that. The question is how attacked in that election provided a disincentive for to achieve them. others to take the same approach. In his Canning House lecture a year ago, the Foreign Secretary set out his vision for a step change in our Eric Joyce: Will the Minister give way? engagement with Latin America, and we are working to Mr Browne: I will not, because many points have broaden and deepen our relationship with Colombia in been made. a range of areas, including human rights, trade, education, science, innovation and environmental growth. In our There have been improvements in Colombia. Cocaine bilateral co-operation, respect for human rights remains production has decreased significantly, murder and kidnap a core value. I have raised the issue on numerous occasions rates have declined and Colombia is safer as a result, with the President of Colombia and many Colombian but more still needs to be done. As Members have said, Ministers. Although, inevitably, our meeting was not as many candidates were murdered during last month’s long as many would have liked, it is important that the local elections, and attacks on human rights defenders President was willing to have discussions in the Foreign increased in 2011. The situation is serious. President Office this morning with non-governmental organisations, Santos has set an ambitious reform and modernisation members of which are attending this debate. agenda, including a policy of zero tolerance of human rights abuses. In my meetings with him and other Ministers, The debate has highlighted some of the human rights he emphasised that powerfully. problems in Colombia, but it is important to remember The passage of the victims and land restitution law is the historical context. In the 1990s, Colombia was a one of the President’s most important achievements to country on the brink of complete disintegration. Guerrillas, date and has been commended by the UN. It aims paramilitary groups and the armed forces were all to return land to huge numbers of displaced people and responsible for widespread abuses of human rights and to compensate victims, and we attach great importance to international humanitarian law. Improvements have been it. The Santos Government have made it clear that civic made since that time. My hon. Friend the Member for society has a key role to play in addressing human Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) asked how we have rights concerns in Colombia. The British Government tried to contribute in terms of the military. We have share that view. To respond to the hon. Member for programmes specifically designed to use our expertise Shannon, our ambassadors and others are here today, and insight to normalise and modernise the Colombian and I will ask our ambassador to raise our concerns military’s behaviour and conduct, but that is inevitably directly. a process. Progress is being made, and a new Colombia is emerging. Jim Shannon: I am the hon. Member for Strangford. Drugs are clearly a problem. I respect the hon. Member Shannon is down south; I am up in the north. for Newport West (Paul Flynn); he made a point about parliamentarians in Britain not daring to raise the issue. Mr Browne: Sorry. I do not know whether I am the I remember the Littleborough and Saddleworth by-election. first person to have made that mistake, but I apologise Given the behaviour of the Labour party, he might unreservedly. choose to reflect why Labour did not wish to raise the To respond to the hon. Member for Bristol East issue after that election. (Kerry McCarthy), I have met Afro-Colombian groups and raised their concerns, as well as those of indigenous Chris Bryant: The Minister lets himself down by people, directly with President Santos and senior members those last comments. He referred to co-operation between of Government. I hope that they are fully versed in the the British military and the Colombian military. Exactly British Government’s position. what shape does that take? It is a new policy under his Government. How much is it costing? In March 2011, the Foreign Office’s human rights Command Paper identified a chronic lack of capacity Mr Browne: It is not a new policy. We are completely and resources in the judicial system as a key barrier to committed to strong human rights in Colombia. We the enjoyment of human rights in Colombia. It remains want a normalised military that observes and protects a significant concern, but progress has been made. The human rights rather than risking or, on occasion, abusing number of prosecutions for extra-judicial killings has them. We are trying to ensure that the Colombian risen sharply, and in September, the former head of the military has the characteristics that we recognise in our state intelligence agency—DAS—was found guilty of own military rather than those that we do not wish it to criminal conspiracy for providing right-wing militias have. It is as simple as that. I stand by my previous with lists of left-wing activists and trade union leaders, point. I am in favour of mature debate about drug some of whom were subsequently imprisoned or killed. consumption in the west, but all politicians and all I agree completely with the hon. Member for Paisley parties must approach that debate with equal maturity. and Renfrewshire North that the problem is far from being resolved. The Colombian Attorney-General’s office Paul Flynn: I do not want to mislead the House. The is currently investigating 1,486 human rights violations words that I quoted on the cowardice of British politicians allegedly committed by members of the armed forces. were those of a former ambassador. Does the Minister Concerns have been raised about British businesses. I agree with President Santos’s call for a new look at want to make it completely clear that our approach is to prohibition? ensure that British businesses operating in Colombia and elsewhere maintain the highest standards of conduct. Mr Browne: The point I am making is that that was I repeat my offer to the hon. Member for Paisley and an example of a politician trying to make a broader Renfrewshire North: if he has examples of specific point about the consumption and legal status of drugs violations, I hope that he will bring them to my attention. 47WH Human Rights (Colombia) 22 NOVEMBER 2011 48WH

[Mr Jeremy Browne] Pension Protection Fund A point was made about free trade agreements by my predecessor, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), 12.30 pm among others. We support free trade agreements, but Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con): It is a pleasure for the avoidance of doubt, our view is that the proposed to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Brooke. I shall free trade agreement between Colombia and the European begin by drawing attention to my entry in the Register Union should be, in the jargon, a mixed competence of Members’ Financial Interests, although I am not agreement. In other words, it should include the concerns aware that any of the companies to which I am connected that have been raised. However, as Members have said, have any current business associated with any of the there is a Colombian-American free trade agreement, issues that I intend to raise. It is, however, important so I hope that we will make progress, with the conditions that I draw the entry to Members’ attention. that I mentioned. I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss important I believe that Colombia offers great potential. It is the and unresolved issues in relation to the operation of the second most populous country in South America, and Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance it has worked closely with Britain on numerous issues of scheme, and their impact on a group of former employees joint concern that I am sure are shared by Ministers and of Allied Steel and Wire, a number of whom are my Members as well. However, we take the point that a constituents. I want to begin by acknowledging the normalised, strong, healthy relationship with the relentless work of Mr John Benson of the Pensions Colombians requires marked improvements on human Action Group, and by thanking the chief executive rights. That process has been ongoing, and we recognise officer of Saga, Ros Altmann, who has been a consistent the progress made, but we wish to work closely with the supporter of the former workers, who have been stripped Colombian Government to ensure that dramatic further of their pensions through no fault of their own. progress is made soon. I would also like to thank my parliamentary colleagues, my hon. Friends the Members for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Gordon Henderson), who also has an ASW interest, for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns)—John Benson is one of his constituents—and for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), as well as the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) and the hon. Members for Arfon (Hywel Williams) and for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), for attending the debate. We have discussed the issues with all of them over time. I should also like to mention the hon. Member for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott), who is unable to attend the debate because of conflicting public duties, but who has been a consistent supporter of the workers. Ever since the early part of the 20th century, Parliament has recognised the need to promote proper and adequate pension provision for those in their later years. We have seen the development of the state pension system and its refinement and adjustment in a variety of ways that still continue to this day. Overlaying that, Parliament has rightly encouraged people to make better provision for themselves through occupational or private pension routes. Again, we see that issue at the forefront of parliamentary debate. The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb), has responsibility for the latest Pensions Bill, which is currently in another place, and there has been legislation on pensions in this House on an almost annual basis in recent years. On the 30th of this month, we anticipate a major public services strike because of Government plans to adjust the future pensions benefits of public sector workers. The merits of those arguments are matters for another debate, but what is undeniable is that the Minister and his colleagues in Government have been at pains to stress that, irrespective of the outcome of the negotiations, the current accrued pensions rights of all public sector workers will be honoured. The then Government made a similar pledge to Northern Rock workers when the bank was taken into public ownership in 2007, and matched that promise in respect of each of the other banks that have found themselves in the public sector. 49WH Pension Protection Fund22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pension Protection Fund 50WH

The reason why such pledges are important is that the this is more like fraud. Other victims of mis-selling receive success of pension saving depends on the maintenance compensation. Having contributed their money loyally for 30 or of trust—trust that, if someone makes regular contributions, 40 years, with the promise of a secure pension and no risk they will in due course receive nothing less than the sum warning from anyone, many now find not that they will get a reduced pension but that they will get no pension at all.” that has been promised to them. That trust was significantly shaken 20 years ago by revelations that Robert Maxwell She went on to say that had stolen £460 million from the pensions of Mirror “they would in fact have been better off throwing their contributions away, than putting them into their employer’s schemes. Is it any Group Newspapers workers, which led to the establishment wonder that people are frightened of pensions and have lost of the Occupational Pensions Regulatory Authority in confidence?” 1995. From that time onwards, workers in company The ASW scandal provoked a major campaign, which, pension schemes had every reason to believe that their as my hon. Friend has mentioned, began during his pensions would be safe. As Ros Altmann put it in a time at the Welsh Assembly. There was a call for action letter to the Financial Times some years ago: in this House and the workers were invited to No. 10 “Members were told that their accrued pension rights were Downing street for tea and sympathy with Tony Blair, protected in law and that actuaries would calculate contributions, but more practical help was demanded by others in the in line with the minimum funding requirement, to ensure adequate House. I pay credit to the hon. Member for Cardiff funding to pay the promised pensions.” West in that regard—he was certainly active on behalf Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): I of the pensioners—and to my good friend, the former congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. Member for Eastbourne, Nigel Waterson, who played a He is making a powerful case. I support everything that leading role in supporting the workers and in highlighting he is doing and agree with all Members present that the injustice of the situation. The Minister himself was justice has to be done for this group of pensioners. I also active and supportive in that debate. The campaign would also like to mention that the hon. Member for led to the establishment of the financial assistance Newport West (Paul Flynn) is also present. scheme under the Pensions Act 2004. At the time that the scheme was put in place, many Jonathan Evans: I apologise for failing to mention the believed that the outcome would guarantee 90% of hon. Member for Newport West. He regularly attends expected pensions benefits for affected workers. I have all such debates. I had presumed that he was present for read the parliamentary debates in which many members the previous debate on Colombia, without realising that of the then Government expressed the joy with which he also wished to contribute to this one. I am happy to workers would greet the news that 90% of their entitlements put the record straight on that and to give credit to the were safeguarded. Unfortunately, they were sold a line right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd and his that was both simplistic and inaccurate. colleague, the hon. Member for Arfon, for their support Although schemes such as that for ASW provided up for the ASW workers. to 5% inflation proofing, the legislation cut it to 2.5%, less than half of the current level of inflation. Over Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): Following on time, that still further erodes the pension value and is from the intervention of the right hon. Member for further cut by the switch from RPI to CPI, which the Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd), many years ago, I Minister has also applied to the financial assistance met groups of people from ASW outside the National scheme. Assembly for Wales when they were explaining their In parliamentary questions on 29 June 2009, one case to Assembly Members. If we are going to have a Member rightly exposed that deceit, although he was successful pensions industry to which people are willing too courteous to suggest that the deception was in any to contribute, we cannot let these things drift on for way deliberate. He said: decades. This is not the only case, and I congratulate my “Does she”— hon. Friend on highlighting the issue. the then Secretary of State— “accept that this 90 per cent. figure that she uses is highly Jonathan Evans: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for misleading…because it is not just capped…there are big issues that point and shall now endeavour to make some about the inflation protection? Does she accept that many pensioners progress. will get much less than 90 per cent., and that over the years they Ros Altmann’s letter continued: will see annual falls in their real pensions? Will she look at those cases again?”—[Official Report, 29 June 2009; Vol. 495, c. 6.] “Literature from the government, the Financial Services Authority, the Occupational Pensions Regulatory Authority and everyone Of course, the hon. Member who was able to identify else contrasted the safety of final salary schemes with money all those shortcomings is now the Minister himself. Let purchase arrangements, where members’ pensions were not me make it clear that I am a strong admirer of the guaranteed”, Minister. I believe that he is personally motivated to do as we see from what happens on the stock market all he can to help these cheated pensioners. I know that almost daily. That was the guarantee that ASW workers since the election he has met, on more than one occasion, believed they had right up until July 2002, when the with the ASW pensioners to examine any ways their company went into liquidation. It was then that John plight can be alleviated. We are all aware of the difficult Benson and his colleagues discovered that, despite years financial circumstances that the Government face. of parliamentary inquiry, debate and legislation on Nevertheless, Mr Benson and my constituents have pensions, they were no better off than the MGN staff, pointed out to me that, in the run-up to the general whose pensions had been stolen. As Ros Altmann put it election, both coalition parties heavily criticised the at the time: previous Labour Government for the shortcomings of “Simply to say it is a tragedy that thousands of people have this scheme. It was, therefore, a reasonable inference for had their pension expectations reduced is an insult to those who them to draw that some action might be taken to have suffered in this way. This is not an example of life’s unfairness; address these failings if we were successful in the election. 51WH Pension Protection Fund22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pension Protection Fund 52WH

[Jonathan Evans] seem excessive and wrong. Allowing early retirement, subject to actuarial revaluation, would seem fair. Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): The Earlier today, I received an e-mail from one of my hon. Gentleman is making a very powerful point. Does constituents, Mr Iain Kenworthy-Neale of Thornhill in he agree that these people feel so very angry because Cardiff, entitled, “Fair Pensions for All”. I warn colleagues their limited indexation is now affected by the change that they will all receive a similar e-mail shortly. He from RPI to CPI, which will see them losing hundreds expresses support for the national strike on 30 November and thousands of pounds? for fair pensions for all. He says that he is not impressed with the Government guaranteeing accrued pensions Jonathan Evans: I highlighted the point in relation to rights. He is not impressed with the Government RPI and CPI. I am endeavouring not to engage in a maintaining current public sector provision for the next partisan debate, with the criticisms that I have made of decade. He wants no change whatever in relation to my own side. However, I am bound to say that the fixed public sector pensions, and he wants the Government to 2.5% inflation cap will have a much more marked effect scrap their plans. However, Mr Kenworthy-Neale does than the CPI-RPI issue, even though I had mentioned it not limit his views to public sector pensions. He also myself. calls for all state pensions to be increased by £70 a week forthwith, and for every private sector employer to be My constituents highlight the 100% pension protection compelled to pay pensions to their workers. He has that has been offered to the workers in the bailed-out asked for me to draw his demands to the attention of banks. They point to the guarantee on accrued pension the Minister, and I am happy to do so. rights that are to be given to all public sector workers— In contrast, the demands of John Benson, the Pensions rightly so—and the recent decision to extend those Action Group and all the former ASW workers at rights further, so that all workers who are retiring from Cardiff and Sheerness are much more modest. They are the public sector in the next decade will see no change merely looking for their pension promise, as underwritten whatever in their future entitlements. They argue that, by Government and regulators, to be met. I was pleased far from their situation improving, their pensions have to stand with them at their protest at my party’s conference actually worsened since 2010. Government—I use that in Manchester in October. They are people of real generically, because I think it was prior to 2010—have dignity who have been badly let down by successive lost their case on maladministration in the Court of Governments. I hope that the Minister will be able to Appeal, yet the recommendations made by the offer them today some light at the end of what seems a parliamentary ombudsman have not been honoured. very dark tunnel. Having set out those criticisms, let me say that there are areas in which this situation could be improved. The 12.46 pm Government should increase the inflation-linking cap. The Minister of State, Department for Work and As I have indicated, the current 2.5% cap will seriously Pensions (Steve Webb): I congratulate my hon. Friend erode the pensions of affected people within just a few the Member for Cardiff North (Jonathan Evans) on years, and that reduction is accentuated year-on-year securing the debate and welcome the fact that a number moving forward. I know that the Minister understands of hon. Members have come to the Chamber to register that. As I have pointed out, he was the one who highlighted their support for their constituents who have been affected it two years ago. The Government should consider in the way that he describes. He is right to pay tribute to scheme-specific capping. The ASW scheme promised those who have campaigned on the issue for a long time; workers much greater inflation protection. Not only I recall many such debates in previous Parliaments. The have we seen a reduction, but we have seen a reduction hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) was that, in contrast to the scheme that they had, is much certainly one of the principal campaigners on the issue, less generous. The former Government removed the on behalf of his constituents. Indeed, Derek Wyatt, right of trustees to use deemed buyback after a number predecessor of my hon. Friend the Member for of schemes had taken that up. Permitting deemed buyback Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Gordon Henderson), would assist FAS scheme members in future. The Minister campaigned on the issue during his time as a Member could consider establishing a hardship fund for those of the House, particularly with respect to the link with worst affected. ASW Sheerness. The Minister has been examining the potential unwinding As my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff North of annuity purchase. Annuity purchases have taken rightly said, my involvement goes back a long way. I place with two major annuity providers, and I am aware recall going with Mr Andrew Parr, from ASW Sheerness, that he met with ASW workers as recently as 1 November and Dr Ros Altmann, to whom my hon. Friend was to discuss the issue. Will he confirm the outcome of absolutely right to pay tribute to for her role in all this, those discussions, with whom the discussions have taken to see the parliamentary ombudsman way back when. place and whether any progress has taken place? We sat down with the ombudsman and went through all Reduced early retirement pensions should also be the literature that people were provided with at the time, permitted. There are a range of pensioners, including as well as the concerns about the way successive my own constituents, who are currently unemployed Governments had said, “No questions asked, company and cannot find work, yet cannot access their pension. pensions are a good deal.” Essentially, they had said, Changing the rules would have no cost implications, “Go for it.” As my hon. Friend rightly says, some because there would be an actuarial adjustment. I have people lost out very badly. That is, in a sense, how the a constituent who is in poor health. He could be considered financial assistance scheme came about. for early retirement only if his doctor is prepared to say It is worth reflecting on the sequence of events and that he will die within five years. Those requirements the creation of the Pension Protection Fund, and how 53WH Pension Protection Fund22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pension Protection Fund 54WH the financial assistance scheme fits into that universe. not what we would have liked to see, nor was it as The existence of the PPF is germane to my response to adequate as we would have liked—he accepted that at my hon. Friend. Rightly, people sometimes ask about the time—but does he not feel some responsibility at what previous pensions Ministers got wrong. One thing least not to make matters worse, which is what he is that previous pensions Ministers got right was the creation doing? of the PPF. Going forward, people in defined benefit pensions can know that the scheme is paying a levy, that Steve Webb: Let me come on to the CPI point, which there is a sort of collective insurance and that, essentially, is what I assume the hon. Gentleman is referring to. those who see their company become insolvent can Clearly, the Government took a view in summer 2010 as expect to receive 100% as pensioners, and 90% as active to the measure of inflation that they would use to or deferred members of the scheme. uprate benefits and tax credits. There is no perfect We can all take some reassurance from the fact that measure of inflation; clearly, each has its strengths and for the sort of scandals my hon. Friend describes—where weaknesses. However, as a new Pensions Minister in Governments have encouraged people to save through 2010, I received angry letters from people asking why workplace pensions and then they find that there is an their state earnings-related pension scheme had been insolvency event and they have lost not only their job, frozen. Obviously, “It wasn’t me, guv”, as it were, but but their pension—there is now pretty good protection their SERPS pension had been frozen because “inflation” in place, although it is not total protection. Insurance in the year to September 2009, as measured by the retail schemes tend not to be total, but they are very significant. prices index, was negative. One criteria for what we may or may not do with the We had a bizarre situation. I have yet to meet a financial assistance scheme is that I believe it would be pensioner who felt that inflation was negative in the wrong to take its principles beyond what the PPF year to September 2009, but, because mortgage rates provides. The PPF is a levy-based insurance scheme. It were falling dramatically, headline RPI inflation was would seem to me to be wrong to say to people whose negative and, therefore, people’s pensions were frozen in employers are paying an insurance premium that they 2010. CPI would have given them an increase then. will get less insurance cover than those who did not. It is The further paradox was that, at a time of falling not their fault that they did not, but it would seem to me interest rates when savings returns were falling—low that that is a logical and coherent position. If we create interest rates are, on the whole, bad news for pensioners, an insurance scheme and people pay for it, that is what who tend to be savers rather than borrowers—we were we think is fair provision. Therefore, the financial assistance using a negative or a low measure of inflation. That did scheme should not be more generous than the PPF. not seem a good fit to us, particularly for pensioners, so That, therefore, is part of my initial response to my hon. the Government took the view that they would measure Friend’s first point about the 2.5% inflation cap. I take inflation using the CPI for benefits, tax credits, state his point that we live in times of high inflation, with the earnings-related pensions, the underpin for occupational consumer prices index at 5.2%, or 5% as the most recent pensions and, thereby, via SERPS, public-sector pensions, figure. However, if we were to lift the cap on the and the PPF.Having decided that that was what inflation financial assistance scheme indexation, by corollary we was across whole swathes of the what the Government would have to do so on the PPF indexation. If we did do, it would be odd to have an island where we measured not, that would be odd, and we would probably be in inflation differently. court by the end of the day, I suspect. The PPF indexation I fully accept that that reduces the value of the is funded by the levy payers, so there could be a significant financial assistance scheme pensions—I cannot dispute additional cost from removing that cap, which would that—but that was not the purpose of the exercise, and have to be met by the firms in British industry today the effect was well down the track from the decision on that are continuing to run quality pension schemes, or the CPI. It would, however, have been incoherent to that continue to have liabilities under them. A challenge have said that inflation was something different for the that we face is the balance between wanting good-quality financial assistance scheme. pension protection and wanting good-quality pension provision. Every time we put a new burden on those I have met Pensions Action Group campaigners on a who provide final-salary and salary-related pensions, number of occasions over many years, as my hon. the danger is that another will say, “Forget this, that is Friend the Member for Cardiff North said, and I have just another cost and we will close it.” That is one of the great respect for what he described as their dignity and trade-offs. for their perseverance in campaigning, which has got the financial assistance scheme to where it is. The switch My hon. Friend mentioned the indexation provisions to using the CPI has reduced the cost of the financial specific to the ASW scheme, which were relatively generous assistance scheme in the longer term—it has had no compared with some, but, to give a feel for the scale of impact in the first couple of years because we are above what we might be talking about, if we were to provide the cap on either measure of inflation—but other factors indexation along the lines of the schemes that people have led us to spend more on the financial assistance were in previously, rather than at a general level, it is scheme than we were budgeting for. Rather than looking estimated that we would add about 30% to the cost. Just at a budget line that allows me some slack, I am having one of the things on his list would add significantly to to explain why I am overspending relative to the budget the cost. that I inherited. The reason for that is that new schemes come into the financial assistance scheme, or we get Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): I did not intend data for schemes that we knew were coming in but for to intervene, but as the Minister rightly says, in the past which we did not know the details, and we tend to find he and I were allies at times in working on the issue. We out that we have greater liabilities, in particular in the all accept that the deal that eventually happened was short term, than we had thought. 55WH Pension Protection Fund22 NOVEMBER 2011 Pension Protection Fund 56WH

[Steve Webb] access to SERPS, so, again, the current system has a measure of flexibility that deemed buy-back would not Working out what we will spend on the financial have. Deemed buy-back, therefore, is complex and technical, assistance scheme is not a precise science, although it is and not a silver bullet. We have looked at it—in fact, we getting more so. However, it would be wrong to think have looked at just about everything imaginable to try that somehow the budget line has some slack in it and to find ways to provide better value to those individuals. that we can decide what to spend it on. On the contrary, My hon. Friend mentioned annuities. All the way I am having to make the case in Government that we through, Dr Ros Altmann has argued that one reason have made promises to the financial assistance scheme that we did not get good value in the first place was that that we need to keep. Therefore, we have to find extra many of the schemes were annuitising, and if we had money compared with what we budgeted for. got in there quicker, we could have done better. That is absolutely right and why the so-called FAS 2 schemes, Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): Will the in which the Government have taken over the assets, Minister give way? have enabled us to improve to a baseline of 90% compared with what was previously on offer. Steve Webb: If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I will not, out of respect for my hon. Friend the Member for To try to take that further, I had a personal meeting Cardiff North, who secured the debate, but only because with the chief executive of Legal & General—no reason I want to respond to his comments. why I should not mention it—which is far and away the To be clear, it is not the case, therefore, that some company with the most of those books still going. He financial slack is available for the financial assistance was content to transfer the schemes across to us on the scheme. basis of the book value in his annual accounts. His comment was, “I don’t want to profit from this, but I My hon. Friend also mentioned deemed buy-back, can’t show a loss, so it goes across at the book value.” which is complex, so I will not say, “Here is one I I am not sure we have said this before, but Andy Young, prepared earlier.”Essentially, deemed buy-back is treating who was involved in the Government Actuary’s Department the scheme as if it had not contracted out of SERPS. and has been instrumental in all this, helped us considerably, On the face of it, we would assume that that is better, of his own free will, to analyse all the facts and figures but it turns out that the situation is rather more complicated and so on. We have had discussions with the Government than that. At the moment, people in the financial assistance Actuary and with the Treasury. The short answer is that scheme have a level of certainty: they know what the the book value of those contracts has already got the rules are and they know what 90% is and is not. I profit in it. Therefore, we take across something from entirely accept my own point from a few years ago that which the profit has already been made, and the view of we have to be careful when we say, “It’s 90%,” because the Treasury, which I understand, is that there simply clearly the matter is much more sophisticated than that was not the confidence that we would get extra value—that and there are limits, as he rightly said. However, those the Government doing this would provide added value. people have the certainty of knowing what the scheme In fact, there was a risk that we would be net losers. rules are. Under deemed buy-back, they would not have that certainty while some people would get more than I was keen to pursue that avenue and I hoped that it 100% of their scheme pension and some people less. would provide a way for us to squeeze some extra money into the financial assistance scheme, but, Jonathan Evans: Would there not be a responsibility unfortunately, it has proved fruitless. I am disappointed on the trustees to form a view as to whether they wished about that, which I told the Pensions Action Group to action that? My hon. Friend the Minister is indicating members when I met them a few weeks ago. I was keen that some circumstances could be advantageous and not to string them along. The very least that they are others not, but that would be a judgment made in each owed is a firm statement of the Government’s position. case. Currently, no one can exercise such judgment. It was suggested that we might have a review, perhaps when the Government have more money, but I was keen Steve Webb: The answer might be different for each not to create a false hope or an expectation, because individual rather than for each scheme. How would a those group members have been through so many stages. trustee judge? If the trustees chose deemed buy-back However, considering the state of the public finances, it for the scheme and we agreed with that, might they put would have been dishonest and dishonourable of me to some members in a worse position and others in a suggest that we might find a little pot of money to better? How would a trustee balance the different interests address their concern. of the different members? This is complex. As I hope is apparent from all that I have said today The other thing about deemed buy-back is that under and through the months that I have dealt with the the financial assistance scheme there is some flexibility group, I have huge sympathy for the situation in which as to when the payments are made. My hon. Friend the they find themselves, but I do not believe that I can offer Member for Cardiff North thinks that the ill-health any realistic prospect of improvements beyond the current provision is too rigid, but there is no ill-health early financial assistance scheme. 57WH 22 NOVEMBER 2011 Incapacity Benefit (North-East) 58WH

Incapacity Benefit (North-East) I want to concentrate on the impact of the Government’s welfare reform policies on the economic situation in the 12.59 pm north-east. Sheffield Hallam university’s report, “Incapacity Benefit Reform: the local, regional and national impact”, Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): It is a pleasure, shows that 60,000 people in the north-east face being Mrs Brooke, to serve under your chairmanship for the moved off incapacity benefits, 35,000 of whom will be first time. There has been tremendous interest in the pushed out of the benefits system altogether due to economic effects in the north-east of changes to incapacity the time limits. More than 20,000 will be added to the benefit. I was hoping for a much longer debate—a unemployment figures. number of right hon. and hon. Members have indicated that they would be interested in participating in such a My constituency has the highest rate of working-age debate—but I will try to be brief. adults claiming incapacity benefits in England and will be one of the most affected. In my constituency alone, I am pleased to have secured this debate, which gives 4,200 people will be moved off incapacity benefit, of me the opportunity to raise some important issues that whom 2,000 will lose their benefits altogether. That will affect communities throughout the north-east of England. have a huge adverse impact on those individuals and As the title suggests, I want to focus on the economic households, but I want to focus on what it means for the effects of one specific coalition policy: the impact of north-east economy as a whole. welfare reform and changes to incapacity benefit. I shall refer specifically to a recent research report by Sheffield If 35,000 people are taken off incapacity benefit Hallam university on “Incapacity Benefit Reform: the altogether, as the pilot study indicates, that will effectively local, regional and national impact”, and a report from remove more than £170 million every year from the the Institute for Public Policy Research North, the north-east’s economy. “Northern Economic Summary: October 2011”. I commend the latter report, which is the first of its kind, James Wharton (Stockton South) (Con): Will the but IPPR North will produce it quarterly. It will be a hon. Gentleman give way? useful way of tracking the impact of the Government’s policies on the north-eastern economy. Grahame M. Morris: I would like to make a little Before going into my main argument, I want to set more progress, but I will give way when I have made my the scene and to provide some context for the debate. point. The IPPR North report indicates that unemployment in That money would be in the hands of the poorest in the north-east is accelerating and is being driven by a society and would be spent in local communities, weak northern economy being pushed into recession by neighbourhood shops and local businesses. The clear public sector spending cuts, which are threatening to economic argument is that unemployment would increase increase the north-south divide. The north-east, with if benefits were cut in the region, owing to a reverse Yorkshire and the Humber region, has faced the worst multiplier effect of credit withdrawal, because less money increases in unemployment in the UK. The figure for would be spent in the local economy. It is staggering the north-east now exceeds 11%. Gross domestic product that as the north-east seems to be heading into a regional nationally suggests that the UK economy is avoiding a recession, the Government are set to take another strictly defined technical recession at the moment, but it £170 million from our regional economy every year. It is can be best described as flat-lining. Labour has a five-point even more staggering that, as employment is falling in plan to stimulate jobs and growth, but I do not want to the private sector owing to the Government’s lack of a go into that because of shortage of time. Perhaps it is a credible policy for jobs and growth, they are simultaneously subject for another debate. moving 60,000 people off incapacity benefit and adding The situation for workers and those seeking work in more than 20,000 to the unemployment count. the north-east is much bleaker than in many other The legacy of incapacity benefit is felt most in older regions. The northern economy could already be industrial areas. The number of people claiming incapacity contracting, as the index of production figures produced benefit is not evenly spread. The communities that I by the Office for National Statistics show UK represent are mainly former coal-mining areas where manufacturing contracting by 0.6% in the three months long-term ill health is a consequence of years spent from June to August. Contraction in manufacturing working in damp, cramped and physically arduous affects the north-east disproportionately. It affects the conditions underground. A recent review of coalfield economy in the whole of the north, but particularly areas by the former Member for the then constituency the north-east because, despite the need to rebalance of Barnsley West and Penistone, Mick Clapham, reported the economy—I am a great supporter of manufacturing— two significant problems. He identified that incapacity the north-east has a relatively high proportion of employees benefit claims are not confined to the older generation, in manufacturing. whose ill health was caused by working conditions. Ill The latest job figures show that the north has lost a health in the younger generation is due mainly to poor large proportion of public sector jobs in the last year. employment opportunities and the low expectations The figures produced by the northern TUC show that resulting from their marginalisation in the active labour we are losing them at a rate of 2,000 a month, with market and has given rise to a lost generation. almost no increase in the number of private sector jobs. In the north-east, the number of private sector jobs is James Wharton: I congratulate the hon. Gentleman declining. It has lost more than 32,000 public sector on securing this debate. The topic is extremely important jobs, but more than 8,000 public sector jobs have been to him and to many of his constituents. I am a little created in London, and 24,000 in the south-east. That is concerned that he seems to believe that being on incapacity clear evidence of the Government’s failing regional benefit when able to work is an acceptable end in itself. policy. Does he agree in principle that those who are able to 59WH Incapacity Benefit (North-East)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Incapacity Benefit (North-East) 60WH

[James Wharton] “creating opportunities for work” for this younger generation, this lost generation, which work should be encouraged to do so and should be could prevent the problem that we have experienced taken off incapacity benefit and helped back into work? with young people Does he also agree that, although incapacity benefit “falling into a cycle of ” must be available for those who need it, the Government have a duty to review the system and to address some of dependency and the problems that have arisen as the system became out “economic inactivity”. of control in recent years? That often relates to mental health issues, a lack of self-esteem and a lack of aspiration, which eventually Grahame M. Morris: I will come to that. My fundamental leads to point in response to the hon. Gentleman is that the big “disability and incapacity.” issue for us is not just worklessness; it is joblessness. We want the Government to invest in creating jobs in the We should have an early intervention to tackle this huge private sector and generally to get the local economy problem. There are lessons for Government to apply moving. There seems to be little point in inflicting not only in the north-east, but for other former industrial penury and misery on large sections of already impoverished areas. This is a big issue in the north-west, in parts of communities when there are no jobs for them to go into. Scotland, in Merseyside and in the former mining The two should go hand in glove, and I have some communities of Wales. Claimants of incapacity benefit suggestions for achieving that. are usually concentrated in the same disadvantaged communities that have weak local economies with little chance of finding work. The Government must recognise Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): I agree with my that. colleague. The figure of 32,000 that the report spoke about was released about a month ago. That figure has The authors of the Sheffield Hallam report, Christina not been challenged by the Government. We have 32,000 Beatty and Steve Fothergill, are also damning of the job losses across the public sector in the north-east. If reforms, saying that there is little reason to suppose that my hon. Friend is correct, another 35,000 will be taken changes will lead to significant increases in employment. off incapacity benefit, which will put up the unemployment Without creating the jobs first, it seems like a double figures. There will be a 70,000 increase in those two punishment on the thousands of people who will be groups alone. There is also the failure of the private adversely affected: 35,000 in our region and more than sector to move into the void. Does that not make the 4,000 in my constituency. jobs situation even more serious than it already is? I want to give the Minister an opportunity to respond, but first I want to say a few words about the Government’s Grahame M. Morris: I am grateful for that intervention, workfare programme, which seems like cynical exploitation which reinforces the point that I was trying to make. It by a Government that have already put thousands of is absolutely essential that we tackle joblessness; the people out of work. I want to place on the record my Government have a responsibility to do that. I am opposition to an extension of workfare. Where will the concerned about the complete failure of regional policy; jobs for the long-term unemployed come from? If such I am not convinced that we have an effective regional jobs exist, why are they not being offered as real jobs policy. We lost our regional development agency, One with real wages, as opposed to benefits that carry the North East, and our regional Minister. It cost nothing threat of withdrawal of benefit if individuals are unable to have an advocate at the top table of government, or unwilling to take up offers? arguing the case for business, as well as for the regeneration The effects of such changes will not hurt the affluent of the whole region. It seems perverse that the coalition south, but will be a body blow to the poorest areas, should abandon that, particularly when the region is particularly in the north-east. At the same time as the doing so badly. Government are retrenching on any support for jobs and growth in the north-east, they are quick to pull the Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): I congratulate the hon. rug from underneath the sick, disabled and worst-off in Gentleman on securing a debate that is very important society. I want to focus on the loss that that represents for the region. Does he agree that the current process of to the north-east regional economy and what the checking who should claim incapacity benefit follows a Government could do to limit the damaging effects. system—work capability assessment—introduced by the I want to pose some specific questions, and I look previous Government? Does he further agree that that forward to the Minister’s response. Can the Minister system is flawed and broken? Will he congratulate this confirm that the north-east has seen a decline in private Government on trying to do something about it? sector employment over the last year? Does he have an estimate of what the financial loss will be to the north-east Grahame M. Morris: I certainly would not like to do economy owing to changes in incapacity benefit? Can any of those things. However, there are some positive he confirm the figure of £170 million? Will he consider things that the Government could do to address a dire how money lost to the north-east could be ring-fenced and worsening situation that many people are not aware and reinvested in the region to support job creation? is going to hit them in the next 12 or 24 months. There I will give the Minister a few helpful suggestions from are things that the Government could and should do. the IPPR: Sheffield Hallam’s recommendations were clear: “The government should offer a guaranteed job, paid at the “government should resist penalising the older generation, who, minimum wage or above to anyone who has been unemployed not unexpectedly, are suffering from ill-health.” and claiming JSA for more than 12 consecutive months. The Instead, efforts should be concentrated on guarantee should be matched by an obligation” 61WH Incapacity Benefit (North-East)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Incapacity Benefit (North-East) 62WH because there are rights and responsibilities. If the the deficit is growing because there is no growth in the Government give somebody a right to a guaranteed job, economy? The last figures I saw showed that we are the individual should be obliged to take up the offer of borrowing an additional £46 billion. employment “or to find an alternative that does not involve claiming JSA.” Steve Webb: The hon. Gentleman mixes the structural Will the Minister look at this proposal and whether it deficit with the cyclical deficit. We have said that we will could be targeted as a jobs guarantee for the north-east? eliminate the country’s structural deficit. Although when A jobs guarantee could be implemented in areas of the the economy grows faster we get additional revenues north-east where long-term unemployment meets a certain and save money on benefit spending, we also have to critical level or where the job density ratio falls below an tackle the structural deficit—something the previous agreed threshold. Government failed to do. He referred to a five-point plan that simply adds more debt, and it is hard to see The IPPR believes that these recommendations could how the solution to a problem caused by excessive be afforded if the proposed reduction in corporation borrowing is more borrowing. tax was abandoned. All the evidence suggests that the reduction in corporation tax is unlikely to increase The hon. Gentleman referred to incapacity benefit, employment and it significantly benefits large finance and his constituency has the highest concentration of companies, particularly banks, and companies employing people of working age on incapacity benefit in England. fewer staff. If the Government are serious about getting I have seen the Sheffield Hallam report to which he people back to work—I will conclude on this point, so refers. It lists four changes that have been made, three of that the Minister has a chance to respond—they should which—although he did not want to admit it—were commit to supporting our regional economy and reinvesting introduced by the previous Government. My hon. Friend any money saved from changes to incapacity benefit the Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) made that point. back into the north-east directly, to support jobs and The replacement of the personal capability assessment create growth. by the work capability assessment was introduced by the previous Government; I am not sure whether the hon. Member for Easington supports that, or indeed 1.18 pm the process of re-testing the stock of people on incapacity The Minister of State, Department for Work and benefit, or the requirement to undertake work-related Pensions (Steve Webb): I congratulate the hon. Member activities—all measures initiated by the previous for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) on securing an Government. Those are three of the four measures in important debate. It is good to see other hon. Members the Sheffield Hallam report, and it seems that each was from his region present for the debate today. I will speak a move in the right direction. primarily about incapacity benefit and the changes My hon. Friend the Member for Redcar was right to made by the Government—indeed, primarily by the say that the system of work capability assessment that previous Government. It is worth spending at least a we inherited was broken, and a work capability assessment moment on the context. Every night on the television that focuses on whether people can work or not is a news, we see stories of what happens in countries that positive measure. We have proceeded with the Harrington did not get their deficits under control. We see fiascos, review, and Professor Harrington’s second report will shambles, rioting in the streets and Governments being be published imminently. Significant changes have been overturned. made to the WCA process. For example, we will ensure It strikes me that two political parties working together that we garner more medical information initially rather in the national interest after the 2010 general election than wait for it to emerge on appeal, and we will allow has meant that Britain is not seeing the extraordinary Department for Work and Pensions decision makers to bond rates that Italy or Spain have faced. We are able to more readily override the Atos assessment. A lot of borrow at modest rates because of the fiscal credibility positive changes to the WCA process have been recognised that we have. In the context of the north-east, low by those who campaign on such issues, and we have interest rates are one of the critical things in giving refined and improved the process to the benefit of the householders money to spend. If someone has a mortgage hon. Gentleman’s constituents, and others. and the bank base rate is 0.5%, that gives them money My hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South in their pocket to spend in the regional economy. (James Wharton) asked the key question: what does the hon. Member for Easington want for his constituents Grahame M. Morris: Will the Minister give way? who are on incapacity benefit? Even when private sector jobs are created, they do not go to those on incapacity Steve Webb: I will give way in a second. There are benefit. There is a gap: folk on IB are stuck on IB and direct consequences of the difficult choices that we have nothing gets them off it. We need to bridge that gap, made on the deficit that are specifically to the benefit of which is where the reassessment process and, crucially, local economies such as the hon. Gentleman’s. I will the Work programme come in, involving serious money give way to him, but he has not left me long to respond. that gets spent only when real jobs are created. If he wants to add additional points, I will have even Let me give the hon. Gentleman a feel of how seriously less time. the Government approach this issue. He referred to the ring-fencing of money, but suppose one of his constituents Grahame M. Morris: I am grateful to the Minister, is on incapacity benefit but expected to be ready for but it is important to challenge the point that is raised work in about three months under the employment and again and again that everything has to be sacrificed on support allowance process. If they find a job through the altar of deficit reduction. Is it not true that the the Work programme and that job is sustained, we will Government’s plan is hurting but not working, and that pay about £13,700 to the provider—double the £6,500 63WH Incapacity Benefit (North-East)22 NOVEMBER 2011 Incapacity Benefit (North-East) 64WH

[Steve Webb] this or for that, but will they be in the room when key decisions are made in the way that departmental Ministers that we pay when someone comes off jobseeker’s allowance. will be? I am sceptical that a Minister for one region That is a serious amount of public money going into would get special treatment compared with a Minister the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, although only if for another region. We do, however, have a substantial those people about whom he is rightly worried get regional growth fund that is worth £1.4 billion and has lasting jobs. The money does not get paid—via a small been popular and successful. We have now had two up-front fee—if the folk do not get a job. In many rounds of bidding—I could go through a long list of previous Government programmes and new deals, people projects in the north-east that have been awarded funding. got sent on schemes and the providers were paid whether We recognise that additional support needs to be provided those schemes were useless or not. Under this scheme, to areas that have experienced difficult economic times, the providers will be paid only if they get people into and the regional growth fund is an important part of lasting jobs. That will benefit the local area and is an our response to that. entirely positive measure. Time limiting of ESA was an important part of the Many of the changes to incapacity benefit were rightly deficit reduction strategy, and the hon. Gentleman referred introduced by the previous Government, whether that to people being left “in penury.”It is, therefore, important is the work capability assessment, which, as my hon. to put on record two key features of that time limiting, Friend the Member for Redcar said, needed to be which are that the sickest and poorest people will not be refined to ensure that we get decisions right, or the affected. The sickest people will be in the support attempt to take an incredible number of people—1.5 million group, which is not time limited, and they will continue nationwide—off incapacity benefit. As the hon. Member to receive contributory ESA. for Easington noted, some of those people will be former miners who have claimed IB for a decade or Grahame M. Morris: Will the Minister give way? more. Is it humane or economically rational to say, “Well, you’ve been on IB for a decade, you are seven Steve Webb: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will bear years away from the state pension age so we will leave with me; I have six minutes left to respond to everything you alone, you can have IB until pension age, and then that he said. The people in the support group are not on you will get a pretty lousy pension because your miner’s time-limited ESA, and if they are regarded as inappropriate pension will have stopped years ago”? That is not good for work-related activity, they will continue to receive enough. benefits indefinitely. The second category of people who are not affected by the time limiting are those on The hon. Gentleman asks why we cannot wait until income-related ESA—in other words, even if someone there are more jobs, but even if we waited for a big else in the household has an income or substantial increase in private sector jobs, those on IB would not be capital, they will not be affected. That means that 60% active participants in that labour market. Ex-miners of those coming to the end of a period of time-limited who have received IB for seven years are far from that contributory ESA will move to the income-related version. labour market and not competing in it. When jobs are Those in the support group are not on time-limited available, who will the employer choose between someone ESA, and nor are those who move on to the income-related who has received no contact with the system, and no version. People not in those groups will be those who encouragement, work-related activity or training, and have other household income or substantial amounts of someone who has just come from another job? Both I capital in the bank. and the hon. Gentleman know who that employer will People may ask about the impact of such measures choose, and it will not be his constituent on IB. We must on the local economy, but we must also look at the talk to people on IB and look at who could work with impact of thousands of people who are stuck on incapacity the right support and who needs to be in the support benefit for years with nobody talking to them. Sometimes, group. We must enable and support those who are able people are stuck on IB for three, four or five years, with to work for when jobs become available. I accept that no contact at all. Nobody asks them, “What would it there is currently pressure on jobs, but there is churn take? What are the barriers to work? What would help every day and week as people leave old jobs and start and support you?”, which shows the difference in approach new ones. When recruiting someone new, perhaps not taken by the new Government. We are not writing net additional employment but as a replacement for people off and leaving them on IB; we want to talk to someone who has left, the crucial question will be them, identify those who could be active participants in whether the person on IB is a credible participant in the labour market with the right support, and have a that labour market. We believe that our policies support Work programme that supports them into a job. the north-east by helping those on IB, supporting them The hon. Gentleman mentioned regional policy, but and paying by results when people get lasting jobs. That my personal view is that having a regional Minister is the long-term answer to the pressures faced by the would feel a little tokenistic. We can have a Minister for hon. Gentleman’s constituents. 65WH 22 NOVEMBER 2011 Music and the Economy 66WH

Music and the Economy Louise Mensch: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for taking an early intervention. It is right that he concentrates on the great successes of the UK music industry, and I 1.29 pm congratulate him on securing this very important debate. Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): I thank my May I ask for his agreement on a couple of points? hon. Friend the Minister and the many other hon. First, will he join me in paying tribute to Feargal Members present for attending this very important Sharkey, who recently retired as the head of UK Music, debate. Unfortunately, we have only half an hour, so I and in welcoming Andy Heath of Beggars Banquet, one shall have to crack on. I want to talk about the UK of our greatest independent labels, who is taking over music industry and its importance to the British economy. that role? The debate seems an appropriate juncture at The music industry mainly comprises small and medium- which to do that. Secondly, will my hon. Friend join me sized enterprises, micro-businesses and creative individuals; in expressing some fear about the success of the UK 92% of music businesses employ fewer than 10 people. music industry being undermined, perhaps unfortunately, In terms of the economy, it is invaluable. I want to focus by the proposals in the Hargreaves report on format on the positives that are coming out of the UK music shifting? There is a great deal of support for format industry, rather than the headline-grabbing negatives shifting for private use, but as the UK music industry that we regularly hear about. moves into global leadership with cloud services, one would not wish— The UK music industry is a £3.9 billion business, employing more than 130,000 people. Additionally, UK Annette Brooke (in the Chair): Order. May I point out artists are responsible for 12% of global album sales. that interventions should be short and to the point? That is a phenomenal figure. The music industry as a sector continues to outperform the rest of the economy, with the UK continuing to be one of only three countries Nigel Adams: I agree with my hon. Friend the Member that export more music than they import. The UK is the for Corby (Louise Mensch). The Government broadly largest producer of recorded music in Europe and welcome the Hargreaves report—the Minister will no the second largest in the world. In 2007, 2008 and 2009, doubt talk about it—but in relation to cloud services, the top-selling global artist album was by a British we must be mindful of anything that has an impact on act—Amy Winehouse, Coldplay and Susan Boyle growth. My hon. Friend is absolutely right about that. respectively. In March this year, UK artists occupied She also refers to the contribution that Feargal Sharkey the top three spots in the US album chart for the first has made, to UK Music in particular and to the industry time in 25 years. Again, that is a fantastic achievement as a whole. It is rare to switch the telly on and not hear for our industry. one of his pieces of music being played in an advertisement. I certainly wish him well in whatever he does next as a As a country, we are also centre stage for live music, venture. He has done a sterling job with UK Music in playing host to some of the world’s greatest music the past three and a half years. However, we can all festivals. Many of us will have been to those festivals, agree that, with Andy Heath involved, UK Music is in which include Glastonbury, the V festival, Reading and very good hands. Leeds. Hon. Members will no doubt have heard of the Selby fake festival. That enormous event attracts thousands Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Does the hon. of people to watch some of the best cover bands. This Gentleman agree that one of the great achievements of country is also home to the most successful ticketed UK Music under Feargal’s stewardship has been bringing venue in the world—the O2 arena in London. It is diverse voices together in one organisation that has the therefore vital that we make the most of the next big ear of Government, Opposition parties and the public? opportunity for music tourism—the 2012 Olympics. That is a model that I would suggest the rest of the creative industries could follow, because they have not John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): I always spoken with one voice as effectively as, for congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this very example, the CBI and other business organisations, important debate. One of the most important factors in although they are just as important. ensuring that bands progress is live music in pubs and clubs, where they can develop. Does the hon. Gentleman Nigel Adams: Yes. The right hon. Gentleman is right agree that more must be done to ensure that we have about having someone such as Feargal Sharkey involved. more live music, not less? He is a unique character because he brings experience of having done the job previously and he has enormous Nigel Adams: The hon. Gentleman is right. Live respect not only in the industry, but in both Houses and music is incredibly important to pubs as venues, not just across— for the pub’s business, but for the artist. It is incredibly important that young artists—people starting out—get Mr Foster rose— an opportunity to play in pubs as venues. I shall talk about that later. Nigel Adams: I will give way again, but I will have to move on at some stage. Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab) rose— Mr Foster: I apologise; I know that the hon. Gentleman Mr Don Foster (Bath) (LD) rose— wants to make progress. May I add my own tribute to Feargal Sharkey? He has done an enormous service to Louise Mensch (Corby) (Con) rose— music in this country. On the issue of live music, does the hon. Gentleman share my view that when on Friday Nigel Adams: I give way first to my hon. Friend. I seek to steer my noble Friend Lord Clement-Jones’s 67WH Music and the Economy22 NOVEMBER 2011 Music and the Economy 68WH

[Mr Foster] should be done. We need to ensure there is proper access to finance so that more artists can get their careers off Live Music Bill through the House of Commons, it the ground. As I mentioned earlier, this is very much an would be a disgrace if any member of any party tried to industry of small and medium-sized enterprises, so we object, preventing the Bill from making progress? need to ensure that musical SMEs can find the finance to invest in artists. Nigel Adams: I certainly share that view and would support the right hon. Gentleman in that move. It is Gloria De Piero (Ashfield) (Lab): I, too, pay tribute very important that the Bill is not talked out. The to Feargal. On finance, has the hon. Gentleman, like Minister might refer to that as well. I need to move on me, heard about the problems with the enterprise finance now, because one or two other hon. Members want to guarantee scheme? Will he press the Government to make a contribution. address those issues? It is vital that we make the most of the Olympics. Obviously, that is a sporting event, but we need to make the most of the opportunity to ensure that Britain Nigel Adams: The hon. Lady is absolutely right: the continues to be, in the words of Danny Boyle, the film industry seems to be excluded from the enterprise finance director, “a beacon of music.” UK Music’s report, guarantee scheme, and I hope the Minister will comment “Destination: Music”, highlights the impact that festivals, on that. However, I am looking forward to hearing the which I have referred to, and other large-scale music Chancellor’s autumn statement; I hope there will be events have on tourism, with such events contributing something in it for this important industry. £864 million of gross value added to the national economy I should say at this stage that it is not all doom and and the equivalent of 19,500 full-time jobs. Although gloom for the music industry. I was just on the phone to the Olympics are not a music event, the opening ceremony my son, who is in a teenage band that has been together offers us a huge opportunity to showcase our talent for four years. I asked him how the band was going, and across the world. he told me it had secured a grant from the Keyfund In this difficult economic climate, it is refreshing to scheme, which is run by North Yorkshire county council—a hear that businesses based on manufacturing the intangibles fine Conservative council. The band has managed to of intellectual property are the cornerstone of economic raise a few hundred pounds for a recording session, and growth and, as things stand, one of the only parts of it is about to secure some more money—in the thousands our economy that is growing. That is yet more evidence of pounds—to record a video, so there is money out of how this diverse and uplifting industry can help our there. However, the hon. Lady makes a good point. economy and must be allowed and, indeed, encouraged to do so. Jonathan Lord (Woking) (Con): Will my hon. Friend give us the name of his son’s band? It should be on the Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): I record so that we can look out for it in the years ahead. congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. Does he agree that protecting intellectual property is very important for young and emerging acts as well? I Nigel Adams: At the risk of my son never speaking to am thinking particularly of young performers such as me again because of the embarrassment that I have Zorzilla, Magnets and Daniel Addison in Folkestone in caused him as a teenage boy, the band is Summer City, my constituency. They are writers and performers and and it is rather good. My son is Ben Adams, and there need to know that their investment in their future is are three Bens in the band. If Andy Heath is listening, it secure. has not yet been signed, but he can check it out. When it has made the recording it just got the money for, I will Nigel Adams: It is crucial that there is as much make sure that Mr Heath and the industry get a copy. support as possible for those people, certainly when We must ensure that finance is in place and that all they are starting out. My hon. Friend is absolutely possible measures are taken in this climate to help the right. business. We must also ensure that intellectual property I am pleased that the Conservative-led coalition has is properly protected; copyright law must be made recognised the importance of the creative industries, relevant to the world we live in. By that, I mean it is time specifically highlighting the industry in “The Plan for we caught up with our European counterparts and Growth.” I welcome the plans to remove live music in recognised that private copying from CD to iPod, for venues with audiences under 5,000 from the Licensing example, should be made lawful. As things stand, there Act 2003. That policy has been detrimental to the music is a grey area between what is allowed under copyright industry for too long. The change will enable pubs, exceptions and the reasonable behaviour and expectations which we have referred to, to host live music without of most people. navigating the red tape and regulation currently in On this matter, I urge my ministerial colleague to place. The change is supported by the British Beer and consider the effects that changes to format shifting may Pub Association on behalf of its members. It will have on a larger scale. It is right that personal format encourage musicians to perform in pubs as their venue shifting becomes an exception, but if the terms are of choice for small-scale events. drafted too widely, we could see an adverse effect on The creation of the Creative Industries Council has future innovation and potential revenue, which would been well received by the industry and by UK Music in be very damaging. Cloud services, for example, are an particular, and plans to reduce digital copyright area where, if we get the balance right, music will play infringement and further develop the digital market are an even greater role in the UK’s future economic success. also steps in the right direction. However, more can and If we get it wrong, however, those who manufacture and 69WH Music and the Economy22 NOVEMBER 2011 Music and the Economy 70WH create valuable intellectual properly could be undercut, of such provision. There is also the wider point that which would be disastrous for the industry and those children at every single school are being encouraged to businesses. play a musical instrument. The 12 notes on a keyboard can give rise to extraordinary Several hon. Members rose— emotions. Six strings on a guitar, four strings on a cello and just three valves on a trumpet can really touch the Annette Brooke (in the Chair): Order. Two Members heartstrings of what makes people special. I think it was are standing. The debate finishes at 2 pm. Obviously, Tolstoy—that master of words—who said: there must be time for the Minister to respond. “Music is the shorthand of emotion.” That is absolutely right. We need to ensure that UK music is celebrated and supported so that it will contribute 1.43 pm to our economic growth. Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): It is a 1.46 pm pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Brooke. Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): Time is short, so I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Selby I will keep my remarks brief. The music industry and and Ainsty (Nigel Adams) on securing the debate. How the entertainment business are not called that for no appropriate it is that we are having a debate on UK reason; they are called that because they are worth music and the economy on St Cecilia’s day, given that £5 billion to the economy, with £1.3 billion coming she is the patron saint of music. There is, dare I say it, a specifically from exports, and they employ 130,000 people. member of another distinguished band—MP4—here However, I want to look specifically at the impact on today, and we pay tribute to its members. the north-west. My hon. Friend strongly outlined how important Coming from Liverpool, I like to see the city as the music is to the economy, creating more than £5 billion. epicentre of creativity and the hub of the music industry. As he said, more than £1 billion is also generated by live Whether we are talking about Gerry and the Pacemakers, events. In that respect, I should plug an excellent festival The Real Thing, Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, in my constituency, which is called Latitude. My right Echo and The Bunnymen, The Lightning Seeds, The hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Mr Foster) spoke La’s, The Zutons or The Coral, Liverpool is a creative there earlier this year. hub. There is a side aspect to the economic issues involved I want to look at the direct and indirect consequences here, which is about not only music or tourism, but of music and the music industry. Yes, music has financial some of the construction work involved in creating implications, but it is also an emotional outlet for a arenas. Latitude has just committed to a 15-year contract younger generation and a way to let their creativity out. and is now investing in its site and in other aspects of It can provide jobs that people might not otherwise the festival. That is important for local people. It also have. People can express and stretch themselves, and makes the area a great place to live. they can explain their life and their whole meaning. There is also the investment undertaken by Arts Obviously, I could not talk about Liverpool as a Council England in UK music. Although it perhaps creative hub without mentioning The Beatles and what does not invest in popular music—the Professor Greens they are still worth to the city. The Beatles Story museum and the like—it does invest in things such as the Aldeburgh attracts 600,000 people every year. It is claimed that festival, at Snape Maltings, which has made that an people going there over recent years have brought attractive place to live in Suffolk Coastal. £20 million to Liverpool and Merseyside per year—that I therefore want to make a call to councils. I understand is just because of The Beatles. the strong economic pressures they are under, but they UK Music research found that the north-west attracts should think about how they use some of their arts 965,000 music tourism visitors per year and accounts funding and how they invest in areas. Thirty or 40 years for 12% of all such visits to the UK. It is the second ago, Basingstoke and Deane borough council, for example, biggest such destination outside London. In addition, it invested in ensuring that it had a concert hall so that it is estimated that music tourists in the north-west spend would attract companies to the area. That meant that it at least £132 million a year, which benefits the north-west was a nice place to be and that people did not always economy by £56 million a year in gross value added. need to travel elsewhere to get their cultural entertainment. That also sustains the equivalent of 1,400 full-time jobs. The music industry is vital for us and something we I, too, support the suggestion that we should deregulate particularly excel in. It links to the film industry, adverts, entertainment in pubs and similar venues. My council the gaming industry, TV and radio. We also have the has asked me to lobby against the changes, and I have brand-new MediaCity in Salford. said no, because I think the Government are making the right move. I would like to go even further and try to get My point to the Minister is that we need to protect rid of temporary event notices for unamplified music of the industry and the creatives. We need to protect music any kind, because it is a shame when things go slightly as a financial and creative industry. We must support it wrong and the brass band can no longer play at the to help it grow, and we must sustain it as much as bandstand in a concert that was supposed to happen. I possible. We must also link in the new MediaCity in am delighted that the Live Music Bill, which my right Salford as much as we can, so that we get as much hon. Friend the Member for Bath will take through the benefit from it as we can. House, deals with that. 1.49 pm I pay tribute to the Government for their support The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, for bodies such as Chetham’s school of music and the Olympics, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey): It is a Yehudi Menuhin school, which stresses the excellence delight to appear under your chairmanship once again, 71WH Music and the Economy22 NOVEMBER 2011 Music and the Economy 72WH

[Mr Edward Vaizey] selling artist in the world at the moment; that is an astonishing achievement. Obviously, the Government Mrs Brooke. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member cannot dictate who is going to survive and thrive, but for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams) on securing this that is testament to the fact that we have a vibrant music important debate. The fact that so many hon. Members ecology in this country. have attended, intervened and made speeches shows I know that the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry that there is large-scale recognition throughout the House McCarthy)has concerns about visa issues. It is important of the success of the music industry, and support for it. that bands in this country should have the opportunity I wish Ben Adams the best of luck in his music career. to tour the world, and I am happy to continue working I shall look out for Summer City, which has a ring to it. with her on the question of jurisdictions where it might I can just hear the late Saturday night programme be difficult for bands to get the appropriate visas—perhaps announcer saying, “We’ve got Ben Adams from Summer for understandable reasons. City coming on next,” and people will stay through the advert break to hear what he says. Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): Will the Minister I congratulate my hon. Friends the Members for give way? Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) and for Wirral West (Esther McVey) on their important contributions. Obviously, I Mr Vaizey: I give way to the musician in the Chamber. go regularly to the Aldeburgh festival, which is probably one of the world’s leading classical music festivals. Kevin Brennan: That might be a stretch. Without When my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West making the debate too much of a love-fest I, too, pay recalled The Beatles, that made me recall a recent visit tribute to the work that Feargal Sharkey did, including to Abbey Road studios, which I think still has the the ultimate sacrifice of actually playing with MP4 once largest recording studio in the world. Hon. Members or twice along the way. may have seen the George Harrison documentary recently, Does the Minister agree that it is important for the with the extraordinary pictures of The Beatles recording industry to maintain that single-voice focus, which Feargal in Abbey Road. The studios still have the piano on Sharkey helped to establish with the setting up of UK which “Eleanor Rigby” was composed—a piano built Music; that that put an end to the old days, when it was in 1902. If hon. Members can find any excuse to visit difficult to get a single established view from the music Abbey Road studios, I would urge it upon them. industry; and that it is important that that should We talked about the huge success of the British music continue into the future? industry—and it is a staggering success, with almost £4 billion of sales. Britain is the only country apart Mr Vaizey: Yes, absolutely. I agree that when UK from the United States and Sweden that is a net exporter Music came together two or three years ago, that was a of music, and although the major record labels may no real achievement. There were a number of disparate longer be owned by UK companies, it is heartening that voices. I emphasise, for the benefit of all hon. Members, Beggars Banquet, the largest independent label, has had that Feargal Sharkey is still very much alive; the range such astonishing success working with that amazing of tributes being made might make people think he is artist Adele. That leads me on to the point that was not. He is entitled to move on, and I have no doubt that made about Andy Heath taking the helm at UK Music, he will continue to play an extremely important role. following Feargal Sharkey’s resignation. I pay tribute to Among other issues covered in the debate was the Mr Sharkey’s astonishing record in leading the UK importance of live music and of deregulating the licensing music industry, and herding cats in putting things together. system. I echo the call made by the right hon. Member He was ably assisted by his second in command Jo for Bath (Mr Foster) that no man should stand in the Dipple, whom I know will continue to play an important way of the Bill that Lord Clement-Jones has introduced. role. Let no man put asunder the marriage between the right hon. Gentleman and the Bill this Friday. Let us hope Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): I, too, pay that it passes through the House with ease. Nevertheless, tribute to Feargal Sharkey. The Minister rightly talks there is the backstop of the Government’s consultation about our success in exporting albums, but I understand on live music licensing. that if we were to take away from the equation Adele, Copyright is an incredibly important issue to the Amy Winehouse and Coldplay, and a few other big music industry. The Hargreaves report was mentioned; names, we would be doing a lot worse. Does he share a consultation will shortly be initiated by the Intellectual my concern that things are increasingly difficult for Property Office. As to format-shifting, from a common- struggling artists, some of whom, in the independent sense point of view it makes sense to establish regulations sector, have made the greatest contribution because of that would allow people to do what they do already—move their influence? They struggle in today’s climate, and we from CD to iPod and so on—while at the same time are in a world where only “The X Factor”-type bands ensuring that any measures that are appropriate to and the huge sellers such as Adele and Coldplay can protect the music industry are in place. That will be part survive. of the consultation. There are other things whose importance I want to Mr Vaizey: We have a thriving and vibrant music highlight: the digital copyright exchange, which we are scene, and no individual singer or band is guaranteed not forcing on the music industry—we hope that there success, but it is reassuring to me—I happen to be a fan will be a bottom-up approach, with Government help; of “The X Factor”, but people understandably say it the recent extension of copyright for performers, taken should not be the future of UK music—that Adele and through the European Commission; and the continued other stars have risen. Adele, I think, is the biggest action that the Government take to combat the theft of 73WH Music and the Economy22 NOVEMBER 2011 Music and the Economy 74WH intellectual property—otherwise known as piracy—not My hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal, only through the Digital Economy Act 2010, passed by who rightly highlighted the Aldeburgh festival, made the previous Government, but through brokering the point that the record industry of course encompasses conversations and deals with rights holders and internet classical music. Although we missed a trick by not service providers, including advertisements on pirate launching it today, on St Cecilia’s day, we shall shortly sites, credit card details, payment facilities being provided launch our national music plan. I gather that it is on pirate sites and search engine optimisation issues, pencilled in for Friday; it is a constantly moveable feast, and through the important progress made recently in as we seek to improve it more and more. However, the the courts, with the blocking of the Newzbin site, which key point about the national music plan will be the began 10 days ago. music education hubs that will sit at the heart of it. I Access to finance is of course a perennial problem for hope that those will bring together local authorities and the creative industries. The Creative Industries Council, organisations such as the Aldeburgh festival to provide which we established last year, has one specific work a wider offer to children in schools. The money has stream on access to finance, chaired by Ian Livingstone been secured for local authorities, but we want to put a from the games industry. It is important that people system in place to secure the participation of the much engage with him on issues of access to finance. I have wider ecology of the music industry locally, whether spoken to banks about the enterprise finance guarantee that is local orchestras, the brass band or the Aldeburgh scheme. I had a meeting, for example, with the Royal festival. Bank of Scotland, to discuss it. Importantly, a recent We have had a good-natured and well-tempered debate Demos report, authored by the researcher Helen Burrows, in which hon. Members from both sides of the House shows that the creative industries are not as risky as have united to emphasise our support for the music people think, and that they are a good investment. industry. We have highlighted the key issues that affect Others could take a leaf out of the video games it: education in schools, copyright, access to finance industry’s book. After the debate I shall be going to the and live music. The Government are focused on all National Endowment for Science, Technology and the those issues, and I am grateful for the participation and Arts to talk to small-scale angel investors, who are input of hon. Members from both sides of the House. being introduced to games companies. If UK Music Question put and agreed to. could stretch itself even further to organising one or two investment conferences with banks and the music industry, and independent labels in particular, that could 1.59 pm bring progress. Sitting adjourned.

17WS Written Ministerial Statements22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 18WS

reflecting their own particular needs and circumstances Written Ministerial so this will need to be considered when determining how “best practice” might be developed in this area. Statements The presidency will present a progress report on the main actions and initiatives taken in response to the conclusions agreed at the European Council and the Tuesday 22 November 2011 Energy Council in February. The report covers five policy areas where deadlines or priorities have been set: energy efficiency, internal energy market, infrastructure, ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE external energy relations and nuclear. The agenda includes two items on the external dimension of EU energy policy. The presidency is aiming for Energy Council adoption of Council conclusions on the Commission’s communication on European external energy policy. We are broadly content with the conclusions and with The Minister of State, Department of Energy and the amendments we have secured, which aim to ensure Climate Change (Charles Hendry): In advance of the that the Commission respects the existing balance of forthcoming Energy Council in Brussels on 24 November, EU/member state competence under the treaties— I am writing to outline the agenda items to be discussed. in particular, in relation to co-ordinated messages in The first substantive item on the agenda will be a international forums such as the IEA, IAEA and G20 report on the progress of negotiation of the draft directive etc. The Commission will then update the Council on a on energy efficiency. Given the complexity of the directive, number of EU external energy relations issues. progress since negotiations began in July has been limited, A number of member state delegations will present although a welcome start has been made in addressing information to the Council on issues of concern to over-prescription and a lack of flexibility in the draft them. directive. The Government support measures to encourage Over lunch Ministers will discuss the implications of greater energy efficiency across the EU and look forward individual member states’ choice of national energy to more work being done on this dossier under the policy for European energy objectives and receive a Danish presidency, for whom it is a priority. presentation on the International Energy Authority’s The Commission will then present its proposal for a World Energy Outlook 2011 from the IEA’s executive regulation on the safety of offshore oil and gas activities, director. which is intended to reduce the chances of a disaster similar to the one in the gulf of Mexico from happening in European waters. The UK welcomes the fact that PRIME MINISTER many of the requirements in the proposed regulation appear to mirror key elements of the UK’s existing Committee on Standards in Public Life offshore safety regime, although we have serious concerns over the practical effect of a regulation on the administration of our current regime. The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): The 13th report There will be a presentation by the Commission of of the Committee on Standards in Public Life has been the proposal for a regulation on guidelines for trans- published by the Committee today. I have laid the European energy infrastructure and a first exchange of report before the House and copies have been placed in views on the draft regulation by Ministers, based on the Libraries of both Houses. questions proposed by the presidency. The UK welcomes the publication of the draft regulation, its focus on cross- border infrastructure projects and its acknowledgement TRANSPORT of the role that the tools in the third package of energy market legislation will play in incentivising investment Coastguard Modernisation in electricity, gas and other networks necessary for the move to a low-carbon energy economy, while preserving energy security. While we welcome efforts to improve The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport permitting processes, flexibility is key. Member states (Mike Penning): I will be making an oral statement later have their own pre-application and consent procedures today.

1P Petitions22 NOVEMBER 2011 Petitions 2P

on taxpayers, further declares that the Petitioners believe Petition that proposed changes to public sector pensions, including those of teachers, lecturers, principles, head teachers Tuesday 22 November 2011 and vice-chancellors working in maintained schools, academics, independent schools, universities and teaching colleges are unjustified and declares that the Petitioners PRESENTED PETITION believe that continuing Government changes to these Petition presented to the House but not read on the pensions will be deeply damaging to staff recruitment, Floor retention, mobility, morale and motivation and will jeopardise the education of all children and young people. Teachers’ Pension Scheme The Petitioners therefore request that the House of The Petition of teachers in the Cynon Valley, Commons urges the Government to withdraw its proposals Declares that the Petitioners note that the Teachers’ on reform of teachers’ pensions, and conduct a valuation Pension Scheme, along with other schemes, was reformed of the Teachers’ Pension Scheme. in 2007 to ensure sustainability and viability for the long term, declares that the Petitioners reject the Government’s And the Petitioners remain, etc. claim that such schemes are unaffordable and a drain [P000985]

223W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 224W Written Answers to COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT

Questions Audit Commission

Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Tuesday 22 November 2011 Communities and Local Government pursuant to the answer of 9 November 2011, Official Report, columns 330-1W, on Audit Commission, if he will publish the WALES methodology that was used to calculate the estimated savings arising from the abolition of the Audit Broadband Commission. [81582]

Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Robert Neill: The estimate of savings given by the what her most recent assessment is of access to Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, broadband in Wales. [81322] my right hon. Friend the Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr Pickles’), announcement of 13 August 2010 Mrs Gillan: Providing Wales with superfast broadband was published on my Department’s website in September is essential for businesses to grow and create the new 2010: jobs we need. That is why this Government believes http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/corporate/pdf/ superfast broadband is central to the future economic 1732653.pdf success of the UK. This estimate was derived from the operating costs of On 12 July, we announced funding of £56.9 million the Audit Commission’s corporate and central directorates, which will put Wales at the heart of our plans to help as reported in the Commission’s Annual Report for the bring broadband to everyone, and superfast broadband financial year 2008-09, and expectations of lower fees to 90% of homes and businesses. for audit bodies as a result of competition. We will set out a more detailed assessment of savings Electricity and costs in an Impact Assessment, before we bring forward legislation. Mr Hain: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what discussions she has had with the Welsh Assembly Government on the removal of its subsidy of biomass Council Tax Benefits for electricity. [80477]

Mrs Gillan: There are no plans to remove the subsidy Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for for biomass electricity generation in England and Wales. Communities and Local Government whether he plans to ensure local authorities have access to HMRC real The Department of Energy and Climate Change time PAYE data to calculate residents’ monthly council (DECC), on behalf of the UK Government, are currently tax benefit entitlements; and when he expects such consulting in England and Wales on subsidy levels for access to be provided. [81440] large-scale renewable electricity generation under the renewables obligation for the period 2013-17. Robert Neill: I refer the right hon. Member to the Legal Aid Scheme answer I gave him on 19 October 2011, Official Report, column 1043W. Mr Hain: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales It remains our intention to publish in due course the how many times her Department’s legal section has Government response to the consultation, Localising provided legal advice to Ministers since May 2010. Support for Council Tax in England, where further [80484] details will be set out, including on any future arrangements for sharing data. Mr David Jones: The Wales Office does not keep a detailed record of all legal advice provided to Ministers. Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Some information could be provided but only at Communities and Local Government what plans he disproportionate cost. has to reimburse local authorities for the costs of administering localised council tax benefit schemes. World War I [81441]

Mr Hain: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Robert Neill: The Government recognise that changes what plans her Department has to mark the 100th to support for council tax will have implications and the anniversary of the start of the First World War. [80619] Government do not intend the administration of local schemes to put pressure on local government finances. Mrs Gillan: The Prime Minister has recently announced The Department for Communities and Local that my hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire Government and the Department for Work and Pensions (Dr Murrison), will act as his special representative and will therefore work with local authorities to assess the coordinator for commemoration events. impact of the localisation of support for council tax, I, alongside my officials, will ensure that Wales is including the transitional costs of moving to the new fully represented as part of these commemorations. arrangements. 225W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 226W

Empty Property: Bolton Housing

Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many Communities and Local Government what plans he vacant homes there are in Bolton. [82134] has to balance an increase in supply of new housing with measures to stabilise demand. [81278] Robert Neill: As at the beginning of October 2011, Bolton metropolitan borough council reported there Grant Shapps: The Government are clear that we were 5,782 empty dwellings in their area. Of these 2,776 need to get the housing market, particularly house were classified as long-term empties and 3,006 were building, moving again. To improve the affordability of short-term empties. housing and to stabilise the housing market in the long-term, the balance between supply and demand is This information was published on 16 November and critical. This is important for our plans for economic is available on the Department for Communities and growth, but more importantly, it is crucial to the hopes Local Government website at: and plans of young people, families and older households http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/corporate/ across the country. The Government’s Housing Strategy statistics/counciltaxbase2011 for England—Laying the Foundations—was published The data are taken from the Council Tax Base form on Monday 21 November. This ambitious strategy describes completed annually in the autumn by all billing authorities the actions we are taking to unblock the market and to in England and returned to the Department for support an increase in the supply and quality of new Communities and Local Government. private and social housing.

Fire Services: Pensions Local Government Finance Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how much his Communities and Local Government when he has had Department allocated in area based grant to local discussions with the Minister for Health, Social authorities in England in each of the financial years Services and Public Safety in Northern Ireland on the between (a) 2007-08 and (b) 2010-11; and how much effect of Government policy on firefighters’ pensions. of this funding was spent on community safety. [81884] [82133] Robert Neill: Area Based Grant was introduced in Robert Neill: The Secretary of State for Communities 2008-09. The Department for Communities and Local and Local Government, my right hon. Friend the Member Government pays out the grant on behalf of all contributing for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr Pickles), is responsible departments. The sums allocated to local authorities in for the firefighters’ pension schemes in England only, England in the years 2008-09 to 2010-11, funded by and has no role in relation to firefighters’ pensions in DCLG and in total, are shown as follows: Northern Ireland. The Government’s policy on public service pension £ million reform is being led by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Of which: relating to the right hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch Total DCLG and Strathspey (Danny Alexander), and, as such, public 2008-09 3,059 659 service pension reform was discussed at the last meeting 2009-10 3,219 682 of the devolved Finance Ministers’ quadrilateral meeting 2010-11 4,815 2,314 in July. Area Based Grant is a non-ring-fenced grant which Gurkhas: Aldershot can be used for any purpose, as can many of the other sources of local authority income. For this reason it is not possible to say how much of this grant was spent on Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for community safety. Communities and Local Government what discussions (a) he and (b) his Department have had with Local Government: Pensions Rushmoor Borough Council on funding to help Gurkha immigrants settle in Aldershot. [81947] Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what proportion Andrew Stunell: The Secretary of State for Communities of active members of the Local Government Pension and Local Government, the right hon. Member for Scheme earning less than £15,000 per year (a) are Brentwood and Ongar (Mr Pickles), wrote to Councillor female and (b) work part-time. [81574] Peter Moyle, the leader of Rushmore borough council, recently informing him about the announcement of Robert Neill: As at 31 March 2010, 19% of the £1.5 million of Government funding to support the scheme’s total active membership of 1,800,000 had successful integration of retired Gurkha soldiers, and full-time equivalent earnings of £15,000 or less. Of offering to meet to discuss the fund. those 347,000 scheme members, 87% were female (301,000) My officials have been in touch with the chief executive and 84% worked part-time (291,000). of Rushmoor borough council to discuss the fund and In accordance with Government policy, no scheme are due to meet Rushmoor council on 29 November. members in this pay category will face any increase in Other local authorities with a major Gurkha population contributions to secure the savings as set out in the will be contacted over the next month. Department’s 7 October consultation letter. 227W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 228W

Planning Permission Regeneration: Cambridgeshire

Jack Dromey: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Communities and Local Government (1) if he will for Communities and Local Government what steps he publish any advice provided by his officials to the is taking to support regeneration in (a) Peterborough national planning policy framework Practitioners’ City Council area and (b) Cambridgeshire; and if he will make a statement. [79815] Advisory Group; [73234] (2) how many meetings took place between officials Grant Shapps [holding answer 10 November 2011]: in his Department and the national planning policy Government are taking a new approach to regeneration framework Practitioners’ Advisory Group; and if he and are working to give communities and local partners will publish the minutes of any such meetings; [73235] the powers, tools and information that they need to (3) what the (a) selection criteria and (b) address local priorities for regeneration and growth. appointment process was for the national planning For example: policy framework Practitioners’ Advisory Group. We have designated the Alconbury Airfield as an Enterprise [73236] Zone which will create 1,500 additional jobs by 2015, building to an estimated 8,000 jobs over 25 years. The Greater Cambridgeshire and Greater Peterborough local Greg Clark: The members of the Practitioners’ Advisory enterprise partnership has been provisionally allocated £10.5 Group were invited to advise the Government based on million from the Growing Places Fund to create a revolving their experience and expertise of local government, local infrastructure fund. business and the environmental movement. Planning reform and community rights are giving greater Officials met the group on a number of occasions. power to local councils and communities to determine and Advice from officials shared with the group, and notes influence what happens in their area. taken, form part of the free and frank flow of the Financial de-ringfencing is allowing resources to be channelled internal advice needed for the formulation of policy. more effectively to address local priorities. The New Homes Bonus, including for bringing empty homes back into use, local business rate retention, and changes to the Community Infrastructure Levy, mean local areas will benefit Planning Permission: Appeals financially from local growth and development. Year 1 payments of New Homes Bonus to Peterborough and the three Cambridgeshire authorities totalled over £3 million. David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for This translates to almost £19 million over six years. Communities and Local Government what Cambridgeshire authorities will be early adopters of the mechanisms are in place to enable local communities to Community Infrastructure Levy. Huntingdon and East appeal when planning permission is granted for Cambridgeshire are working in partnership with the county developments they oppose. [81658] council and the partnership is receiving support from the Planning Advisory Service as part of the Government’s Community Greg Clark: Our planning reforms are designed to Infrastructure Levy Front Runners scheme. bring about a more collaborative approach to planning Proposals for Tax Increment Finance will enable local authorities which enables communities to express their ambitions to fund key infrastructure and capital projects by borrowing against future business growth. for their areas early in the planning process through We are accelerating the release of surplus public sector land, neighbourhood planning and pre-application discussions and using our innovative Build Now, Pay Later model wherever on significant schemes. In this way development will be possible, so that housebuilders pay for the land only after planned with the involvement of the community, with homes are built. more decisions made at the local level, thereby reducing Through our new Community Right to Reclaim Land we are the need for appeals. enabling communities to get underused public property back in use. The Homes and Communities Agency is providing specialist expertise and intelligence to help local partners deliver their Planning Permission: Bolton ambitions. The Regional Growth Fund is investing to deliver private Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for sector growth, particularly in areas most heavily dependant on Communities and Local Government how many the public sector. planning enforcement notices were issued in the As a part of DCLG’s Capital and Asset Pathfinder initiative borough of Bolton in each of the last five years. local authorities and other public sector partners in Cambridgeshire [82146] are moving towards an approach where assets are managed on a pan-public sector basis to reduce costs, reduce carbon and maximise benefits for residents. They are also considering Robert Neill: The numbers of planning enforcement setting up a Property Company to drive the process. The first notices issued by Bolton in each of the last five years projects delivered under the ’Making Assets Count’ approach were: will be the regeneration of Wisbech town centre and the creation of a shared operational depot in South Cambridgeshire. Planning enforcement notices We are investing £4.5 billion to deliver up to 170,000 new affordable homes. With regard to affordable housing investment 2006-07 35 specifically in Peterborough and Cambridgeshire, I refer my 2007-08 19 hon. Friend to the answer given to him on 21 November 2011, 2008-09 17 Official Report, column 62W. 2009-10 14 We are considering bids from areas that want to develop 2010-11 9 Whole Place and Neighbourhood-level Community Budgets. We will work with pilot areas to co-design new approaches to 229W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 230W

tackling problems and improving services at different geographic Water levels, in particular by enabling more integrated approaches to tackling intractable, complex and interconnected problems Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for that require multi-agency solutions. Peterborough city council Communities and Local Government what assessment has submitted a bid to be a Neighbourhood-level Community his Department has made of the merits of the Budget pilot area which we are currently considering. introduction of a statutory requirement to include Sleeping Rough non-potable water systems fed through rainwater harvesting in all new build houses. [82075] Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Stunell: To reduce the use of wholesome Communities and Local Government pursuant to the water, the 2010 changes to the building regulations answer of 9 November 2011, Official Report, column introduced requirements for a calculated whole building 337W, on sleeping rough, if he will publish the performance standard for water use in new homes, methodology and any associated guidance used to currently set at 125 litres/person/day. count the number of rough sleepers (a) prior to May As the regulations are a functional approach, they 2010 and (b) since September 2010. [81583] also allow the use of non-wholesome water for flushing Grant Shapps: ‘Guidance on Evaluating the Extent of of WCs and other non-potable uses, such as irrigation, Rough Sleeping’ was published in March 2007 and can and the approved documents that provide statutory be found on the Department for Communities and guidance in support of the building regulations give Local Government website at: additional advice on the use of rainwater harvesting and water from baths, basins and showers (referred to http://www.communities.gov.uk/archived/publications/ ″ ″ housing/guidance as greywater ) for non-potable uses. This was superseded by ‘Evaluating the Extent of This approach reflects a policy in which water efficiency Rough Sleeping: A new approach’ published in September measures should always be considered before rainwater 2010 which is also available on the Department’s website harvesting or greywater systems, which, if not properly at: designed and installed, carry a risk of cross-connection and can be more energy and carbon intensive than http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/housing/ roughsleepingevaluate mains supplies. To assist the right hon. Member, I have placed in the Furthermore, The Code for Sustainable Homes Library a copy of the report ’Roughly Sleeping’ which I encourages higher levels of water efficiency and sustainable published in November 2007 on the flaws in the last drainage. Code level 3 is required by Government for all Administration’s rough sleeping counts, which were new housing funded by the Homes and Communities widely recognised to systematically underestimate the Agency and, subject to viability, local authorities can number of people sleeping on the streets. require housing developments in their area to meet specified higher code levels. Waste Disposal: Fees and Charges

Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for TREASURY Communities and Local Government what the Andrew Cahn statutory basis is for the ability of local authorities to charge householders (a) to remove green or garden Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Chancellor of the waste from residential properties and (b) for taking Exchequer on what (a) dates and (b) occasions he has waste to recycling centres. [81462] (i) met, (ii) spoken to or (iii) corresponded with Sir Andrew Cahn since he ceased to hold the position of Robert Neill: The Localism Act 2011 abolishes the Chief Executive of UK Trade and Investment; what right hon. Member’s plans (when he was Secretary of issues were discussed on each occasion; and if he will State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) to make a statement. [81604] impose new bin taxes on family homes. Such bin taxes would have fuelled fly-tipping and backyard burning. Miss Chloe Smith: Treasury Ministers and officials have meetings with a wide variety of organisations and I note how the last Government’s consultation on bin individuals in the public and private sectors as part of taxes actively considered abolishing the ongoing legal the process of policy development and delivery. duty for local authorities to provide local householders free access to civic amenity sites (DEFRA, Consultation The Treasury publishes a list of ministerial meetings on the Incentives for Recycling by Households, 2007, with external organisations, available at: para 5.6). http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/minister_hospitality.htm This Government have also taken steps to stop the Banking: Business imposition of ’backdoor’ bin taxes and tip taxes, which Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer were actively encouraged by the last Government. A what recent assessment he has made of the level of letter from my noble Friend Lord Henley and I from bank lending to small and medium-sized enterprises in April 2011 makes clear to local authorities how prevailing 2011. [76848] legislation specifically bars local authorities from making a charge for the collection of household waste, except in Mr Hoban: On 9 February 2011, Official Report, cases prescribed in regulations. A copy of that letter is columns 310-13, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, my available in the Library of the House and can be found right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), at: announced a new commitment by the UK’s biggest high http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/ street banks on lending expectations and capacity. As localgovernment/bincharging part of this commitment, the banks intend to lend 231W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 232W

£76 billion of new credit to small and medium-sized The Treasury publishes a list of ministerial meetings enterprises (SMEs) in 2011. This is a 15% increase on with external organisations, available at: 2010 lending of £66 billion. http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/minister_hospitality.htm It is encouraging that the banks have loaned £157 billion to UK businesses so far this year—20% more than they Excise Duties: Fuels did at this time last year, despite difficult global economic conditions. While they have also leaned 10% more to Mr Cox: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer SMEs than they did at this point in 2010, the Government what timetable he has set for HM Revenue and are clear that they must do more to meet their commitment Customs to report its findings on its internal review of for the full year. policy on the use of rebated fuel in agricultural Biofuels: Wales vehicles. [81477] Miss Chloe Smith: HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) Mr Hain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if are currently reviewing comments from industry partners he will consider implementing fiscal measures to on the Memorandum of Agreement in respect of the promote the development of the sustainable biodiesel use of agricultural vehicles on the road. HMRC are industry in Wales. [81533] aiming to complete the internal review by the end of the year. Miss Chloe Smith: I refer the right hon. Member to the answer given to my hon. Friend the Member for Dr Huppert: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) on what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of 7 November 2011, Official Report, column 92W. feebate schemes which provide a refund to new-car buyers for purchasing low-emission cars funded by Capital Investment: Northern Ireland taxes on high-emission cars; and whether he has any plans to introduce such a scheme. [81480] Vernon Coaker: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how he plans to encourage growth in Miss Chloe Smith: The Government support the take Northern Ireland through capital expenditure projects. up of low emissions cars by offering exemptions and tax [81998] relief for zero and low emissions cars through company car tax and vehicle excise duty.In addition, the Government Danny Alexander: Capital spending in Northern Ireland are offering a grant of up to £5,000 to buyers of is mainly devolved. However the UK Government does ultra-low carbon cars until 31 March 2012. recognise the unique circumstances in Northern Ireland and have continued to allow the Northern Ireland Executive Loans: Northern Ireland to borrow under the Reinvestment Reform Initiative (RRI) to fund capital projects. In addition the Government’s Growth Review will Mr Donaldson: To ask the Chancellor of the look at supporting enterprise and infrastructure projects Exchequer whether factors other than application of across the UK, including Northern Ireland. the Barnett formula were used to determine the Northern Ireland block grant announced in October Carbon Reduction Commitment 2011. [74698] Danny Alexander [holding answer 17 October 2011]: Luciana Berger: To ask the Chancellor of the The Chancellor of the Exchequer, the right hon. Member Exchequer how much money had been returned to UK for Tatton (Mr Osborne), announced on 3 October businesses under the Carbon Reduction Commitment 2011, that the Government have set aside an extra between its inception and the date of the March 2011 £805 million to support local authorities to help them Budget. [81631] freeze council tax in 2012. The devolved Administrations received Barnett consequentials determined by the Barnett Miss Chloe Smith: None. The decision to use revenues formula in the normal way. from the Carbon Reduction Commitment Energy Efficiency Scheme to support the public finances was taken as part of spending review in 2010. This was prior to the start Money Advice Service: Standards of allowance sales and the recycling of receipts. Chris Leslie: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Devolution: Northern Ireland what assessment his Department has made of the performance of the Money Advice Service to date Vernon Coaker: To ask the Chancellor of the against the objectives of its 2011-12 Business Plan. Exchequer what discussions he has had with (a) [81471] Northern Ireland representatives and (b) the Northern Ireland Executive on the 2011 Pre-Budget Report. Mr Hoban: The Money Advice Service will publish [82005] an assessment of how it has met its objectives and priorities for 2011-12 in its annual report which it will Danny Alexander: Treasury Ministers and officials publish by the end of July 2012. Its 2011-12 Business have meetings with a wide variety of organisations in Plan confirms that it is developing a robust measurement the public and private sectors as part of the process of suite to monitor and guide progress against its strategic policy development and delivery. aims. 233W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 234W

Public Expenditure Mr Gauke: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 7 November 2011, Official Report, column Mr Darling: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 100W. Since May 2010 I have received four written what his latest estimate is of identifiable public representations. expenditure per head of population in (a) England, (b) Scotland, (c) Wales and (d) Northern Ireland. VAT: Tax Rates and Bands [81645] Vernon Coaker: To ask the Chancellor of the Danny Alexander: The latest estimate of identifiable Exchequer what assessment he has made of the public expenditure per head of population can be found potential effects on the Northern Ireland economy of a in Table A.2 of the most recent Country and Regional temporary cut in VAT of 2.5 per cent. [81997] Analysis (CRA) exercise, published as part of the October 2011 National Statistics Public Expenditure Release. Mr Gauke: No assessment has been made. Identifiable public expenditure per head of population for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, 2006-07 to 2010-11 £ per head National Statistics PRIME MINISTER Outturn 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Adam Werritty England 7,042 7,414 7,962 8,553 8,634 Scotland 8,588 9,045 9,424 9,945 10,165 Wales 8,260 8,609 9,144 9,726 9,947 Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Prime Minister whether Northern 8,963 9,540 10,044 10,550 10,668 he or any of his officials have met (a) Mr Michael Ireland Hintze, (b) Mr Tony Buckingham, (c) Mr Michael UK 7,288 7,671 8,203 8,785 8,884 Davis, (d) Mr Poju Zabludowicz, (e) Mr Jon Moulton identifiable and (f) Mr Stephen Crouch since his appointment; and expenditure where any such meetings took place. [81707]

Revenue and Customs: Correspondence The Prime Minister: I and officials have meetings with a wide range of organisations and individuals on a Mr Winnick: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer range of subjects. I refer the hon. Member to my list of when the Chief Executive of HM Revenue and official meetings with external organisations and to the Customs will reply to the letter from the hon. Member list of meetings by the No. 10 permanent secretary with for Walsall North of 12 October 2011, in respect of a external organisations. These are available on the constituent, reference CEDEL/6848/2011. [81584] Cabinet Office website http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/ministerial- Mr Gauke: HMRC replied to the hon. Member of gifts-hospitality-travel-and-meetings-external-organisations Walsall North on 15 November 2011. They apologise and for the delay. http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/cabinet- office-permanent-secretaries%E2%80%99-meetings-external- VAT: Overpayments organisations

Bell Pottinger Group Mr Hanson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many cases of overpaid VAT by a third party not recovered by HM Revenue and Customs were (a) John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister whether (a) taken to the small claims court and (b) successfully he, (b) officials and (c) political advisers in his Office resolved by the claimants in each of the last five years. have met representatives of (i) Bell Pottinger Group or [81712] (ii) each of its subsidiaries in the last five years; on what dates any such meetings took place; and what was Mr Gauke: It is the legal responsibility of a VAT discussed. [80065] registered supplier to ascertain and charge VAT at the correct rate and to pay the correct amount of VAT to The Prime Minister: A list of my official meetings HMRC. If VAT is incorrectly over-charged the supplier with external organisations can be found on the No. 10 is responsible for providing the relevant refund to the website customer. HMRC has no information about cases in the http://www.number10.gov.uk/transparency/who-ministers- small claims court whereby individuals have sought are-meeting/ refunds of VAT from suppliers. Information on official meetings by the No. 10 permanent secretary with external organisations can be VAT: Prescriptions found on the Cabinet Office website http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/cabinet- Rosie Cooper: To ask the Chancellor of the office-permanent-secretaries%E2%80%99-meetings-external- Exchequer what recent representations he has received organisations on the inability of NHS trusts to recover VAT on Further detailed information requested is not held prescriptions issued in hospitals compared to the centrally and could be provided only at ability of dispensing pharmacists to do so. [81436] disproportionate cost. 235W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 236W

Members: Correspondence Architecture

Steve Rotheram: To ask the Prime Minister when he Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, plans to respond to the letter from the hon. Member Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment he has for Liverpool, Walton of 27 October 2011. [81566] made of the role of architecture in the formation of The Prime Minister: A reply has been sent. cultural quarters in cities. [80746]

News International John Penrose: Architecture, as one of the creative industries, has an important role to play in the John McDonnell: To ask the Prime Minister what formation of cultural quarters, particularly in their meetings (a) he, (b) civil servants in his Office and (c) design and planning. As the coalition Government special advisers in his Office have had with have recently stated in the draft National Planning representatives of News International; and whether the Policy Framework, we attach great importance to the BBC licence fee settlement was discussed at any such design of the built environment. Good design should meeting. [80599] contribute positively to making places better for people. The planning system should promote good The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the design that ensures attractive, usable and durable places list of proprietors, senior executives and editors of as a key means of achieving sustainable development. media organisations that I have met since the general election which was published on Friday 15 July 2011. Arts This is available on the No. 10 website http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/pm-published-details-of- visitors-to-chequers/ Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment his Details of special advisers’ meetings with newspaper Department has made of the effects of the (a) Baltic and other media proprietors, editors and senior Gallery for Contemporary Art, (b) Bristol executives will be published on a quarterly basis with Harbourside, (c) Liverpool World Museum and (d) effect from the period July to September 2011. Quarry Hill Cultural Quarter in Leeds on (i) the Information on official meetings by the No. 10 regional economy and (ii) regional tourism. [80786] permanent secretary with external organisations can be found on the Cabinet Office website John Penrose: The information is as follows. http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/cabinet- office-permanent-secretaries%E2%80%99-meetings-external- (a) A study conducted in 2010 estimated that the economic organisations contribution of the Newcastle Gateshead Culture Venues to the North East regions is £104-£106 million a year and supports Sir Andrew Cahn around 2,500 full-time equivalent jobs. It is also predicted that a £250 million 10 year development of the Baltic Quarter will Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Prime Minister on what create an estimated 7,000 additional jobs. (a) dates and (b) occasions he has (i) met, (ii) spoken (b) Arts Council England regularly funds three organisations on Bristol’s Harbourside: Arnolfini, Watershed and Spike Island. to and (iii) corresponded with Sir Andrew Cahn since These make significant economic, social and artistic he ceased to hold the position of chief executive of UK contributions to Bristol’s cultural life. Arts Council England has Trade and Investment; what issues were discussed on supplied the following attendance figures: each occasion; and if he will make a statement. [81606] Total attendance including workshops The Prime Minister: I have meetings and discussions Organisation name estimated 2010-11 with a wide range of organisations and individuals on a range of subjects. I refer the hon. Member to the list of Watershed Arts Trust Ltd 126,983 my official meetings with external organisations. This is Spike Island 88,218 available on the Cabinet Office website Arnolfini Gallery Ltd 323,973 http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/ministerial- (c) The visitor data to the National Museums Liverpool gifts-hospitality-travel-and-meetings-external-organisations (combined, including Liverpool World Museum) is published on this Department’s website: http://www.culture.gov.uk/images/research/ Sponsored_Museums_Performance_Indicators_2010-2011.xls CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT This shows the number of visits in 2010-11 was 2,635,993, and number of overseas visitors was 342,679. Advisers (d) No evaluation of the effects of the Quarry Hill Cultural Quarter has been carried out at this time. The Arts Council Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for England regularly funded West Yorkshire Playhouse situated in Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what proportion Quarry Hill had 196,744 attendees in 2010-11. of the membership of his Department’s experts and VisitBritain and VisitEngland maintain regular inbound and external advisers comes from each of the (a) nations domestic data, based on the International Passenger Survey and and (b) regions. [77170] the Great Britain Tourism Survey. The VisitBritain “Top Towns Visited” publication John Penrose [holding answer 31 October 2011]: The http://www.visitbritain.org/insightsandstatistics/ Department does not hold centrally a list of the inboundvisitorstatistics/regions/towns.aspx membership of groups and meetings attended by shows that in 2010 among the top 20 towns visited were external experts and advisers and is, therefore, unable Liverpool (sixth with 452,000 visits), Bristol (eighth with 377,000 to advise the proportion of national and regional visits) Newcastle upon Tyne (14th with 224,000 visits) and Leeds representation. (17th with 213,000 visits). 237W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 238W

Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for Broadband Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment his Department has made of the future requirement for Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for independent business involvement in the creative Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many miles industries. [81565] of empty pipe his Department has required water Mr Vaizey: The creative industries are, as the name companies to lay in preparation for future broadband suggests, largely made up of independent businesses. fibre networks since 15 July 2010. [81633] The current definition includes the not-for-profit arts areas, but the thrust of our creative industries’ strategy Mr Vaizey: The Department has not required water is very much towards those sectors where we anticipate companies to lay any empty pipe in preparation for sustained growth in the future. We accordingly engage future broadband fibre networks. closely with creative industry businesses and business organisations, including in the Creative Industries’ Broadband: Cumbria Council, to ensure that our policies facilitate such growth. Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for Arts Council England: Voluntary Organisations Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what factors Broadband Delivery UK take into account in the Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for allocation of funding for rural broadband to (a) Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what funding Arts Cumbria, (b) North Yorkshire and (c) County Council England has allocated to each voluntary or Durham. [81570] third sector organisation in (a) 2010-11 and (b) 2011-12; and if he will make a statement. [81702] Mr Vaizey: The criteria used to determine the Mr Vaizey: Arts Council England provided 633 funding allocations for (a) Cumbria, (b) North charities with regular funding in 2010-11 from a total Yorkshire, and (c) County Durham were the same of 829 regularly funded organisations who responded criteria used in the assessment of all other allocations. to the annual submission. The survey of regularly An explanatory note outlining the criteria used is funded organisations for the year 2011-12 will not be available on the Broadband Delivery UK pages of the complete until autumn 2012. Department for Culture Media and Sport website: Arts Council England, through Grants for the Arts, http://www.culture.gov.uk/images/publications/BDUK-Data- has provided funds to 237 organisations in 2010-11 that Model-Expalantory-Notes.pdf identified themselves as amateur or voluntary organisations. To date, in the financial year 2011-12, Broadband: Northern Ireland Arts Council England has provided funding, through Grants for the Arts, to 153 organisations who Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for identified themselves as amateur or voluntary Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what steps he organisations. plans to take to increase 3G mobile broadband The funding details for all of these organisations coverage in Northern Ireland to levels similar to the shall be deposited in the Libraries of both Houses. rest of the UK. [82180] Despite difficult financial circumstances, the Government recognises the important role that Mr Vaizey: The Government recently announced voluntary and third sector organisations play in the that they were providing an additional £150 million to UK arts sector. improve mobile phone coverage in the UK. BBC Discussions have begun as to how this funding can be best used to improve coverage. Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Although the principal objective will be to fill in Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport whether the (a) not-spots in the national 2G mobile coverage and raise BBC and (b) BBC Trust discussed with him the BBC’s the coverage level to 99%, wherever possible any proposal to replace references to BC and AD to infrastructure provided will be capable of supporting Common Era and Before Common Era. [81228] 3G and, when available, 4G services. At this stage however, it isn’t possible to say how 3G mobile Mr Vaizey: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I broadband coverage will be improved. gave to my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), on 25 October 2011, Official Report, Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for columns 165-66W. Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment Betting Shops: Licensing has been made of the likely effect on levels of mobile broadband coverage in Northern Ireland following the Mr Hain: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, 4G spectrum auction. [82181] Olympics, Media and Sport how many betting shop premises are licensed in each local authority in Wales; Mr Vaizey: We expect mobile broadband coverage to and how many such licences are active. [81534] increase across the UK, including Northern Ireland, John Penrose: This information is not collected following the 4G spectrum auction. centrally. Licensing authorities are responsible for Ofcom’s original proposal was for 95% population issuing premises licenses for individual betting shops coverage. However, Ofcom are re-consulting on and are required to hold records of the number of such coverage obligations attached to 800 MHz licences, and licences issued in their area. a final decision is likely to be made in spring 2012. 239W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 240W

The Department cannot give any assessment until Hugh Robertson: The Olympic Delivery Authority Ofcom publishes the outcome of this further (ODA) has conducted market research as part of the consultation. Travel Demand Management programme. This programme is designed to ensure that the transport Departmental Design network can operate effectively at Games time, minimising delays to spectators and the general public. Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Over the past two years the ODA has spent: Olympics, Media and Sport what contracts his (a) £80,670 on focus group research. The vast majority of this Department has awarded for design services since May was to help plan delivery of Games-time information and advice 2010; and what information his Department holds on to businesses and commuters across London and the UK. the location of such companies. [80191] (b) £253,085 on polling. Surveys were conducted so as to understand likely travel behaviour during the Games and plan John Penrose: The Department for Culture, Media accordingly around venues across London and the UK. and Sport has awarded contracts for design services to: (a) Park Studio (24 Moira Court, Balham High Road, Olympic Delivery Authority: Pay London, SW17 7AH) for leaflet design, information and title panels. Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) Amos Marchant (Amos Marchant, 1 Longley Road, Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how much was London, SW17 9LA) for plinth designs, leaflet holders, title panel and paint effects. paid in bonuses to (a) directors, (b) senior managers, (c) specialist and delivery managers and (d) executive (c) COI (Central Office of Information, Hercules House, Hercules Road, London SE1 7DU) for leaflet design. support and administration staff in the Olympic Delivery Authority since May 2011. [82098] (d) Redstone (London) for a report and template design. (e) Adfield (village of Beckbury, Shropshire) for the design of a report. Hugh Robertson: Staff remuneration including bonuses paid to directors, senior managers and other (f) The Team (The Team, 30 Park Street, London, SE1 9EQ) for website design and a template. staff is recorded in the Olympic Delivery Authority annual report which can be found at the following link: (g) October Sun (6th Floor, The Communications Building, 48 Leicester Square, London WC2H 7LT) for website design. http://www.london2012.com/publications/oda-annual-report- and-accounts-2010-11.php (h) Mother London (Biscuit Building, 10 Redchurch Street, London, E2 7DD UK) for the design of banners and postcards. These figures are correct as at March 2011 and will be updated again in the 2011-12 annual report which English Heritage: Voluntary Organisations will be published in the summer of 2012.

Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Olympic Games 2012: Advertising Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what funding English Heritage has allocated to each voluntary or third sector organisation in (a) 2010-11 and (b) Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how much (a) his 2011-12; and if he will make a statement. [81701] Department and (b) the Government Olympic John Penrose: The information requested is not held Executive spent on newspaper advertising in each by this Department and relates to matters that are the publication in the latest year for which figures are responsibility of English Heritage. available. [82099] Accordingly, I have asked the chief executive of Hugh Robertson: The Department for Culture, English Heritage to write direct to the hon. Member. Media and Sport (DCMS) spent £94,317.43 on Copies of the reply will be placed in the Libraries of newspaper advertising in the financial year 2010-11. both Houses. This was spent on filling a number of public appointments. The Department pays for press space Gun Quarter through the Central Office of Information (COI), who invoice the Department directly, and as a consequence Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for it is not possible to provide a breakdown by Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what publication. The above figure includes design and representations he has received on the area of management costs billed by COI to DCMS as part of Birmingham known as the Gun Quarter being changed the contract. to St Chads and St Georges. [81227] The Government Olympic Executive did not incur any spend on newspaper advertising in 2010-11. John Penrose: The Department for Culture, Media and Sport has not received any representations on this matter. Olympic Games 2012: Contracts

Olympic Delivery Authority Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what bonuses Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for have been paid to (a) consultants and (b) contractors Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how much the working on the Olympic Park construction project Olympic Delivery Authority has spent on (a) polling since (i) the commencement of the project and (ii) May and (b) focus groups in the last two years. [82095] 2010. [82096] 241W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 242W

Hugh Robertson: Some Olympic Delivery Authority national governing bodies of sport on 19 July, stating (ODA) construction and consultant contracts include that the next round of whole sport plan funding from incentivisation payments linked to performance. These 2013, will be based on a proven ability to maintain and payments are made on achievement of agreed increase participation, and funding will be decreased or performance indicators relating to objectives such as may cease altogether for organisations that fail to schedule milestones and delivering cost reductions. As achieve their objectives. the ODA is currently in the process of closing out contracts with suppliers working on the programme, Sports: Schools the level of incentive earned is not available at this time and in some cases will be commercially sensitive and Clive Efford: To ask the Secretary of State for subject to confidentiality arrangements. Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what steps he Incentive payments made to date to the ODA’s plans to take to ensure that local authorities apply the delivery partner CLM are recorded in the ODA’s same criteria for School Games to identify children to annual reports which can be found at the following compete at county and national level; and if he will links: make a statement. [81693] http://www.london2012.com/publications/oda-annual-report- and-accounts-2006-2007.php Hugh Robertson: School Games local organising http://www.london2012.com/publications/oda-annual-report- committees are responsible for planning and delivering and-accounts-2007-2008.php the county-level Festivals of Sport, linked to the intra http://www.london2012.com/publications/oda-annual-report- and inter-school competitions taking place in their and-accounts.php area. The Youth Sport Trust has published guidance http://www.london2012.com/publications/oda-annual-report- for the committees to ensure national consistency of accounts-2010.php approach. The country’s most talented athletes of school age will compete at the School Games national http://www.london2012.com/publications/oda-annual-report- and-accounts-2010-11.php finals if selected by their national governing body for sport.

Sport England Clive Efford: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport which schools are Simon Reevell: To ask the Secretary of State for eligible to participate in School Games; how they will Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment be funded by his Department; and if he will make a Sport England is undertaking of the whole sport plan statement. [81694] of each national governing body of sport in terms of their effectiveness in increasing participation in sport. Hugh Robertson: All schools in England are eligible [81869] to participate in the School Games. My Department is funding School Games until 2014-15. Over the period Hugh Robertson: Sport England formally assesses 2010-11 to 2014-15, £130.9 million Exchequer and each national governing body (NGB) in the delivery of lottery funding will be invested to support the its whole sport plan (WSP) twice per year, and a large programme. part of this assessment will cover an NGB’s success in growing adult (16+) participation. Increasing adult Clive Efford: To ask the Secretary of State for participation is a contracted outcome with most of Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport which sports will Sport England’s funded NGBs, and is measured twice be included in School Games competitions; and if he yearly through the Active People Survey. In addition, will make a statement. [81695] Sport England works closely with NGBs to understand how well they are translating their WSP into actual Hugh Robertson: Currently 24 sports are available to delivery on the ground that is impacting adult schools. These are athletics, badminton, basketball, participation. Where Sport England concludes that an boccia, cricket, fencing, football, Goalball, golf, NGB will not achieve its contracted outcomes, then it gymnastics, hockey, netball, New Age Kurling, has the right to reduce and re-allocate its funding, Panathlon (a multi-sport disability event), Polybat, which has been the case with a limited number of rugby league, rugby union, rowing, swimming, tennis, NGBs. table tennis, table cricket, volleyball and wheelchair basketball. By September next year, the ambition is to Simon Reevell: To ask the Secretary of State for increase that number to 38. Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (1) how Sport The inaugural School Games national finals will England will hold each national governing body of feature 12 of these sports, namely athletics, badminton, sport accountable for increasing grass-roots cycling, fencing, gymnastics, hockey, judo, rugby participation in sport as part of the 2013-17 whole sevens, swimming, table tennis, volleyball and sport plans; [81870] wheelchair basketball. (2) if he will instruct Sport England to ensure that when national governing bodies allocate lottery and Telecommunications Exchequer funding to increase participation in sports it is allocated on the basis of payment by results. [81898] Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport for what reasons Hugh Robertson: The Secretary of State for Culture, telecoms providers are permitted to charge the same Olympics, Media and Sport, my right hon. Friend the line rental for customers across the UK despite varying Member for South West Surrey (Mr Hunt), wrote to all levels of service and coverage. [81706] 243W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 244W

Mr Vaizey: The matter raised is an operational one the lives of women and children. The Government aims for the independent regulator, the Office of to help build stable states and thereby prevent the Communications (Ofcom), which is accountable to situations in which children are most likely to be drawn Parliament rather than Ministers. Accordingly, my into violence. officials spoke to Ofcom, who advised: We also aim to take direct action to help stop the The UK telecommunications industry is strongly competitive, problem of child soldiers, by applying diplomatic with a very large number of national and local companies pressure to offending parties and by funding projects to providing a range of services. This competitive environment has help protect and rehabilitate children. Britain is a been supported by Ofcom through focused interventions at the wholesale level, such as local loop unbundling, wholesale line member of the United Nations Security Council rental, wholesale broadband controls and access to duct and Working Group on children and armed conflict, which poles. leads the international response on this issue. Ofcom has determined that given this diversity of competition it is not appropriate to regulate the supply Arms Trade: EU Action or price of retail services. That said, Ofcom has imposed a Universal Service obligation on BT, due to Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign its position of market dominance, which ensures all and Commonwealth Affairs what his priorities are for UK citizens have access to a telephone line for a the review of the EU Common Position on common uniform price. This has the effect of reducing the cost rules governing control of exports of military of such services to citizens in the less accessible or technology and equipment, due to begin in December densely populated parts of the UK. 2011. [81844] Television Alistair Burt: We believe that the EU Common Position defining common rules governing control of Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for exports of military technology and equipment works Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what recent well, and that the review of the Common Position estimate he has made of the economic value of the should concentrate on its common application by EU non-public service elements of the commercial member states. We are actively participating in television broadcast sector to the UK economy. [81853] preparations for the review of this EU Common Position through the EU Council Working Group on Mr Vaizey: The Department has made no recent the Export of Conventional Arms. estimate of the economic value of non-public service broadcasters. However, I am clear that non-public service broadcasting (PSB) channels make an Arms Trade: Treaties important contribution to the UK economy. Figures from the non-PSB commercial broadcasters’ industry Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign body, the Commercial Broadcasters Association and Commonwealth Affairs if he will consider (COBA), estimate that its members are investing over including messages of support for the arms trade treaty £400 million per annum in UK production. in the core script for overseas ministerial engagements. [81840] VisitBritain: Voluntary Organisations Alistair Burt: Securing a robust and effective arms Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for trade treaty (ATT) is a priority for the UK Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what funding Visit Government. Foreign and Commonwealth Office Britain has allocated to each voluntary or third sector Ministers regularly raise the treaty, when appropriate, organisation in (a) 2010-11 and (b) 2011-12; and if he in ministerial engagements. Outreach on ATT, will make a statement. [81703] including through ministerial engagement, is intensifying as we approach the crucial Negotiating John Penrose: VisitBritain has not allocated any Conference in 2012. funding to voluntary or third sector organisations in 2010-11 or 2011-12. Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has made of the likelihood of Ambassador Moritan’s most FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE recent paper on the Arms Trade treaty being adopted as the basis for negotiations. [81843] Armed Forces: Children Alistair Burt: The Preparatory Committee meeting Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for process, under the chairmanship of Ambassador Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether his Moritan of Argentina, has made much progress since Department regards the mobilisation of child soldiers the first meeting in 2010. The chair’s papers provide an as falling within the definition of violent crime in the accurate record of the discussions so far, and the UK, Building Stability Overseas strategy. [81585] together with a significant number of UN member states, fully supports their use as the basis for Mr Bellingham: The issue of child soldiers falls negotiations at the 2012 conference. The rules of within the remit of the Building Stability Overseas procedure for the 2012 conference will be established at Strategy. The strategy sets out how conflict and the final Preparatory Committee meeting in New York, violence can have a particularly devastating impact on taking place from 13 to 17 February 2012. 245W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 246W

Bosnia and Herzegovina: EU Enlargement explained in our publication “Support for British nationals abroad; A guide”, available on the FCO Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for website at: Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/2855621/support-for-british- on Bosnia’s bid for EU membership; and if he will nationals-abroad.pdf make a statement. [81594] We aim to contact British nationals, depending on local circumstances, within 24-hours of being told of their Mr Lidington: The Government fully support Bosnia arrest or detention. Our role is to provide information and Herzegovina (BiH) in its aspiration to join the about the local legal system, including the availability European Union. We remain wholly and actively of local English-speaking lawyers, and to support the committed to BiH as a sovereign, stable country with welfare of the detainee. functioning state level institutions, irreversibly on the path to EU and NATO membership. Democratic Republic of Congo: Foreign Relations We remain seriously concerned at the very limited progress being made by BiH towards its European goal Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for At present, BiH has yet to establish a satisfactory track Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent record in implementing obligations under its assessment he has made of bilateral relations with Stabilisation and Association Agreement (SAA) with Democratic Republic of Congo; and if he will make a the EU. Such a track record would be a key element for statement. [80840] any eventual formal application by BiH for EU membership to be considered by the EU. Mr Bellingham: We enjoy good diplomatic relations with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). I We continue to work on the ground, and in all visited the DRC in July 2010 and I have met the relevant international forums, to deliver clear, Foreign Minister four times in the last eighteen months. consistent messages to BiH’s leaders and citizens on Our embassy in Kinshasa engages regularly with the the importance of committed effort to meet the criteria Government of DRC on a range of issues. Britain is a for progress towards EU accession. major bilateral donor to DRC. The Department for International Development plans to spend £198 million Bosnia and Herzegovina: Terrorism on average per year from 2010-15 in DRC. Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for Human Rights: Business Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment his Department has made of the threat of terrorist Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for attacks in Bosnia by groups influenced by Wahhabist Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what progress the ideology. [81596] Government has made on ensuring that the UN Protect, Respect and Remedy Framework for Business Mr Lidington: There have been very few terrorist and Human Rights is implemented by (a) central attacks in recent years in Bosnia and Herzegovina Government Departments and (b) UK companies; (BiH). It should be noted that the individual and if he will make a statement. [81873] responsible for the shooting that took place outside the US embassy in Sarajevo on 28 October 2011 was a Mr Jeremy Browne: The Government expect UK Serbian national, who is believed to have been businesses to operate at all times in a way respectful of radicalised in a third country. human rights whether in Britain or overseas. Following The overall assessment of the level of terrorist threat the UN Human Rights Council’s June 2011 in BiH has not changed as a result of this incident. We endorsement of the UN Guiding Principles on continue to assess, as set out in the Foreign and Business and Human Rights, in which the UK played Commonwealth Office’s Travel Advice, that there is an an important role, the Government are fully committed underlying threat from terrorism in the country. to implementing those principles as part of a wider strategy on business and human rights. British Nationals Abroad: Prisoners A cross-Whitehall steering group has been formed to co-ordinate input from across relevant Government Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Departments into the strategy’s formulation. We also Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many UK plan to seek inputs to this process from the business nationals are serving custodial sentences in (a) EU world and non-governmental individuals and member states and (b) non-EU states. [81700] organisations. Libya: Asylum Mr Jeremy Browne: As of March 2011 we were aware of 554 British nationals in detention in EU countries, and a further 1,522 in other countries Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for worldwide. These figures include individuals detained Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent at all stages of the legal process. We are unable to assessment he has made of living conditions for estimate how many of those are serving custodial Libyans in refugee camps. [81489] sentences because our case-handling database does not collate this information. Estimating this figure would Mr Andrew Mitchell: I have been asked to reply. incur disproportionate cost. Supporting British According to the UN refugees agency (UNHCR), nationals in difficulty around the world is a priority for nearly all Libyan refugees on or near the Libyan the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. This support is borders are currently accommodated with host 247W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 248W families. Latest UNHCR reports indicate that only two delivered, including to new areas. My Department also Libyans are still living in border camps in Tunisia, provides funding to the United Nations and others to which are managed by UNHCR. We remain in close develop measures which remove practical barriers to contact with UNHCR to monitor the situation in the aid delivery, including on managing the security risks camps. which aid programmes face. Libya: Elections The Prime Minister recently announced that he will host an international conference on Somalia in early 2012, which aims to pull together international effort to Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign address piracy, terrorism, conflict and poverty. and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has had with the Westminster Foundation for Democracy about providing election and campaigning training and support in Libya. [81588] HOME DEPARTMENT

Alistair Burt: We have had no discussions with the All Wales School Liaison Core Programme Westminster Foundation for Democracy about providing election support to Libya. Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for the Macedonia: EU Enlargement Home Department what funding her Department plans to provide to the All Wales School Liaison Core Programme in (a) 2011-12, (b) 2012-13 and (c) Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for 2013-14. [81402] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is on Macedonia’s bid for EU membership; and if he will Nick Herbert [holding answer 21 November 2011]: make a statement. [81595] The Home Office does not provide any direct funding for the All Wales School Liaison Core Programme. The Mr Lidington: The UK is a firm supporter of All Wales School Liaison Core Programme scheme is Macedonia’s bid to join the EU, provided it meets all jointly funded by the Welsh Government and the four the necessary criteria. We welcomed the European Welsh police forces. Commission’s latest progress report in October 2011, including its recommendation that the EU open Queries on future funding should be directed to both accession negotiations with Macedonia. the Welsh Government and the Association of Chief Police Officers in Wales (ACPO Cymru). We also support the Commission’s encouragement to the Macedonian Government to enhance its reform Asylum: Libya efforts, particularly in the areas of media freedoms, judicial independence, public administration and the fight against corruption. Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what plans she has to review her Members: Correspondence policy on Libyan refugees who wish to settle in the UK. [81493] Mr Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he plans to respond Damian Green: Applications for asylum from to the letters from the hon. Member for Basildon and Libyans nationals are considered in the same way as Billericay of 26 September and 23 August 2011 other nationalities: on their individual merits, and in regarding Mr James Smith. [81484] line with the existing legal framework. If applicants are granted refugee status the UK Border Agency will Mr Lidington: The letters have been transferred to grant them leave to remain in the UK for five years, Her Majesty’s Treasury for answer. after which their case is reviewed in order to determine whether UK Border Agency will grant indefinite leave Somalia: International Assistance to remain in the UK. We will continue to monitor the situation in Libya very closely in case there are grounds Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for to make any exception to this approach. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he has taken to work with the international community to British Nationality remove administrative and political restrictions on the delivery of aid in Somalia. [81004] Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) whether she plans to make Mr Andrew Mitchell: I have been asked to reply. changes to the Life in the UK citizenship test; and what The UK Government support an inclusive political the timetable for any such changes will be; [81460] process based on the Djibouti Agreement, including (2) who is responsible for deciding what changes are fulfilment of the key tasks of the Transitional Federal made to the Life in the UK citizenship test. [81461] Charter. We are committed to supporting the transitional government if they demonstrate results, Damian Green: The Home Office is responsible for and to supporting a viable and inclusive new the Life in the UK test. arrangement after August 2012. The Prime Minister announced on 10 October that The Department for International Development is we would change the test and put British history and working with international partners to help address culture at the heart of it. We plan to have a revised test corruption and reduce conflict so more aid can be in place by autumn 2012. 249W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 250W

Crimes of Violence Lynne Featherstone [holding answer 15 November 2011]: Estimates of the number of males and females Mr Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for the who were victims of stalking in each of the last five Home Department how many people were convicted of years are provided in the following table. These are (a) violent crime offences and (b) serious violent based on a self completion module in the British Crime crime in (i) Jarrow constituency, (ii) South Tyneside, Survey which asks adults aged 16 to 59 questions on (iii) the north-east and (iv) England and Wales in each their experience of stalking. year since 2009. [70381] Estimated numbers of victims of stalking in the last year among adults aged 16 to 59, 2006-07 to 2010-11—England and Wales, BCS Mr Blunt: I have been asked to reply. Number (thousand) Information showing the number of persons found All guilty at all courts in the north-east region and Estimate Range1 England and Wales for offences of violence against the 2006-07 1,629 1,524 to 1,734 person, in 2009 and 2010 (latest available) can be found 2007-082 —— in the following table. 2008-09 1,100 1,015 to 1,184 Court proceedings data are not available at 2009-10 1,165 1,070 to 1,259 parliamentary constituency level or local authority 2010-11 1,183 1,049 to 1,317 level. Data are given in the table for the north-east 1 The BCS is a sample survey which means that its estimates are subject to a region in which the Jarrow constituency and South margin of error. It is possible to calculate a confidence interval around the estimate showing the likely range for the true population value. This has been Tyneside are located. calculated at the 95% level, meaning that that there is a 19 in 20 chance that the Court proceedings data for 2011 are planned for true estimate lies within the given range. 2 The 2007-06 BCS did not include questions on stalking. publication in the spring 2012. Court level breakdown is available through the Members: Correspondence Ministry of Justice website. Mr Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for the Persons found guilty at all courts for violence against the person offences in the Home Department when she plans to respond to the north-east region1 and England and Wales, 2009 to 20102,3 6 letter of 4 August 2011 and email of 12 September Area/offence type 2009 2010 2011 from the hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay England and Wales regarding a constituent Mr Adrian Jones. [81485] More serious offences4 3,396 3,512 James Brokenshire: The letter of 4 August 2011 was Less serious offences5 45,384 46,770 given to our colleagues in the Association of Chief Common assault 52,790 55,438 Police Officers (ACPO) as the matters raised within Of which: were for their consideration as they related to North-east region operational issues. ACPO sent a response to the More serious offences4 181 223 hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay dated Less serious offences5 3,179 3,009 2 September. Common assault 2,653 2,758 1 Includes Cleveland, Durham and Northumbria police force areas. Metropolitan Police Service 2 The statistics relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences the principal offence is the offence for which John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two the Home Department how many police staff or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory employed by the Metropolitan Police Service maximum penalty is the most severe. 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and subsequently took employment with a security complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been company in England and Wales in each of the last five extracted from large administrative systems generated by the courts and years. [81666] police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Nick Herbert: This information is not held centrally. 4 Includes: Murder, Attempted Murder, Threat to conspiracy to murder, Manslaughter, Infanticide, Child destruction, Causing death by dangerous Offenders: Ex-servicemen driving, Manslaughter due to diminished responsibility, Causing death by careless driving under the influence of drink or drugs, Causing or allowing the death of a child or vulnerable person, Causing death by careless or Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for the inconsiderate driving, Causing death by driving—unlicensed, disqualified or Home Department in how many police force areas uninsured drivers, Causing death by aggravated vehicle taking, Wounding or other act endangering life, Endangering railway passenger. arrestees are routinely asked whether they have served 5 Includes: Endangering life at sea, Other wounding etc. (including offences in the armed forces; and whether they are directed to of assaults occasioning actual bodily harm and wounding or inflicting relevant welfare agencies. [81895] grievous bodily harm), Cruelty to or neglect of children, Abandoning child aged under two years, Child abduction, procuring illegal abortion, Concealment of birth. Nick Herbert: I refer my right hon. Friend to the 6 Post publication revisions have been made to 2009 figures to account for the answer given on 10 November 2011, Official Report, late receipt of a small number of court records. column 421W. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice Police Community Support Officers: Manpower Harassment Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Home Department how many police community for the Home Department how many people were support officers have been employed in police forces in victims of stalking or harassment in England and Wales at each payband in (a) 2007, (b) 2009 and (c) Wales in each of the last five years. [79966] 2011. [81577] 251W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 252W

Nick Herbert: Available data relating to police 30 years of service and normal retirement. The table community support officer strength in Wales, broken does not include redundancy as police officers cannot down by police force area, as at 31 March 2007, 2009 be made redundant. and 2011 are given in the following table. Police officers in police forces in Wales that have retired 2010-111,2 Information on police community support officer Number pay is not collected centrally. Dyfed-Powys 39 1 Police community support officer strength in Wales, as at 31 March 2007, Gwent 34 2009 and 2011 North Wales 49 As at 31 March South Wales 90 Police force area 2007 2009 2011 1 This table contains full-time equivalent figures that have been rounded to the Dyfed Powys 77 82 80 nearest whole number. 2 Retirement figures include those that have early medical retirement, medical Gwent 105 139 142 retirement after 30 years of service and normal retirement. North Wales 145 159 159 Police: Working Hours South Wales 314 325 304 Wales forces 641 705 686 total Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for the 1 These are full-time equivalent figures that have been rounded to the nearest Home Department if she will assess the effect on crime whole number. Because of rounding, there may be an apparent discrepancy of the restriction of the working hours of scene of between totals and the sums of the constituent items. crime officers. [81883] Police: Forensic Science Nick Herbert: This is an operational matter for the Guy Opperman: To ask the Secretary of State for the police. Home Department what the average time taken is for Primates: Research the police to receive a toxicology report in cases of a death in suspicious or unknown circumstances. [81710] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for James Brokenshire: For police forces that have the Home Department how many non-human primates contracted under the National Forensic Framework were imported into the UK for the purposes of Agreement (NFFA) procurement mechanism the scientific research in each of the last three years. standard turnaround time for toxicology cases [80687] involving drugs of abuse or medicinal drugs in blood or urine is 10 calendar days. There is also an NFFA Lynne Featherstone: The answer, based on the latest service that involves the toxicology of named and information available, is in the following table: unknown drugs in other body samples (e.g. hair, stomach contents). Number of non-human primates imported into the UK for the This service is contracted to be delivered to a purposes of scientific research turnaround time that is agreed on a case by case basis 2010 2,071 due to the bespoke nature of the service. 2009 2,200 Other contractual arrangements outside the NFFA 2008 2,723 are still in place in some forces. Rape Police: Pensions Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for the the Home Department what steps she has taken to Home Department what proportion of a police implement recommendation 22 of Baroness Stern’s officer’s pensionable pay is deducted in pension review on rape complaints since February 2011. [82175] contributions. [81875] Lynne Featherstone: The terms set by Parliament Nick Herbert: Police officers who are members of the allow the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority police pension scheme 1987 contribute 11% of their (CICA) the discretion to set aside the requirement for salary towards their pension. Those who are members immediate reporting and take a view based on the facts of the police pension scheme 2006 contribute 9.5% of of the case. The Ministry of Justice has explored with their salary. CICA how to ensure that case officers have the correct guidance and training in applying discretion in rape Police: Redundancy cases, and that process is being kept under review.

Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for the Sexual Offences: Children Home Department how many police officers have retired or been made redundant in police forces in John Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Wales since 2010. [81578] Home Department how many people convicted for sexual offences were barred from working with children Nick Herbert: The latest available information shows in each year since 2005. [81259] the number of police officers in police forces in Wales that have retired, 2010-11 (full-time equivalent). Lynne Featherstone: The information is not available Retirement figures include those police officers that in the form requested. A person may be barred by the have early medical retirement, medical retirement after Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA) on the 253W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 254W basis of an automatic barring offence, or following Act 1999 (‘PoCA’).Inclusion on that list led to automatic discretionary consideration of criminal offences or inclusion in list 99, so the above figures include all those relevant information provided by employers. barred under PoCA. Information about the number of people barred on the Southern Investigations basis of the offence type is not recorded in a readily retrievable format and could be provided only at Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for the disproportionate cost. Home Department what information her Department The Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA) began holds on whether any (a) serving and (b) former making barring decisions under the Safeguarding police officers have worked in any capacity for the Vulnerable Groups Act 2006 on 20 January 2009. The company formerly known as Southern Investigations. following table shows the total number of people placed [81846] on the ISA children’s barred list under the automatic barring procedure. Approximately 80% of all automatic Nick Herbert: This information is not held centrally. barring cases received by the ISA relate to sexual offences. Stalking

People automatically Number of those Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for the placed on the children’s people who remain Home Department what assessment she has made of Time period barred list barred today good practice in respect of tackling stalking by police 20 January 2009 to 31 3,962 3,728 forces (a) nationwide and (b) in other EU member December 2009 states. [78930] 1 January 2010 to 31 12,533 11,484 December 2010 Lynne Featherstone: The Home Office is working 1 January 2011 to 15 11,153 10,692 with the Association of Chief Police Officers, the Crown November 2011 Prosecution Service, and specialist organisations to ensure that best practice guidance on the investigation and The difference between the figures in the two prosecution of stalking cases is disseminated, including columns reflects the adjustment for the number of through four regional events to be held in November cases where the person has been removed following and December 2011. representations to the ISA, reviews or appeals. We have committed in the Government’s Violence The following table shows the total number of Against Women and Girls Action Plan, to learn from people who, having been placed on the ISA children’s how the fixated threat assessment centres (FTAC) methods barred list via the discretionary procedure in the year of investigation of stalking cases could be applied to shown, remain on that list. mainstream policing. We have also committed to learn from the pioneering work taking place in Melbourne, Time period Number of people Australia to tackle stalking and will work with FTAC to consider how this approach might be applied in England 20 January 2009 to 31 December 25 and Wales. 2009 1 January 2010 to 31 December 181 The Government have not undertaken an assessment 2010 of good practice by other EU member states. However, 1 January 2011 to 15 November 168 as part of the Home Office consultation on stalking 2011 (launched on 14 November 2011) we are seeking views on how we can protect victims of stalking more effectively. Prior to 20 January 2009, decisions to bar individuals The consultation incorporates a number of issues, including from working with children were taken by the then current legislation and how stalking is tackled in other Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families, jurisdictions. The consultation will close on 5 February the right hon. Member for Morley and Outwood (Ed 2012. Balls), under section 142 of the Education Act 2002, via the ‘list 99’ system. The data on the number of people barred in each of those years specifically because of TRANSPORT their convictions for sexual offences is not available. Air Travel Organisers’ Licence However, successive Secretaries of State reported to the House on the number of people on list 99, as set out in Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for the following table. Transport whether her Department has made an assessment of the potential effects on competition in Date to which figure Number of people on the provision of travel services arising from her Date of statement relates list 991 proposed reforms to the ATOL scheme; and if she will 19 January 2006 2— 34,045 make a statement. [81176] 28 February 2007 27 February 2007 4,921 Mrs Villiers [holding answer 21 November 2011]: An 17 March 2008 13 March 2008 8,036 impact assessment was published alongside the ATOL 20 January 2009 19 January 2009 12,992 Reform consultation document. 1 Cumulative. 2 Not specified, but shortly before the statement. The assessment suggested that the proposed reforms 3 Including 513 people added to the list in 2005 were not expected to limit the ability of businesses to compete with each other. However, it was recognised In the same period, the Secretary of State was also that some in the travel trade believe that they would be responsible for barring people from work in certain competitively disadvantaged if airline holiday sales were child care positions under the Protection of Children excluded from ATOL. 255W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 256W

A revised impact assessment will be published when a publish the result of its work with the Association of final decision on the reforms consulted on is announced Transport Co-ordinating Officers on collating shortly. The revised assessment will incorporate relevant information in respect of tendered bus services across information from responses to the consultation. England. [81225]

Aviation: Security Norman Baker: The Department for Transport is working with the Association of Transport Co-ordinating Paul Goggins: To ask the Secretary of State for Officers to agree how information in respect of tendered Transport what meetings (a) Ministers and (b) senior bus services is collated, and the nature and timing of officials in her Department have had with (i) airport any future publication of that data. operators and (ii) airline companies at which border checks were discussed in the last 12 months. [81164] Departmental Design

Mrs Villiers [holding answer 15 November 2011]: Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Details of ministerial meetings with external organisations Transport (1) what contracts her Department has are published quarterly and can be found at: awarded for design services since May 2010; and what http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/ministerial-transparency/ information her Department holds on the location of #meetings such companies; [80181] Airport operators and airline companies have raised (2) how much her Department has spent on design in passenger facilitation aspects of border controls with respect of (a) logos, (b) buildings, (c) advertising, (d) departmental officials on a number of occasions over stationery and (e) campaigns in the last year for which the last 12 months, not least in the South East Airports figures are available. [80206] Taskforce, which I chaired, and in the regular Facilitation Stakeholders Forum, which is chaired by officials. Norman Baker: The information is as follows: Design contracts Aviation: Snow and Ice Since May 2010, the Department for Transport, including its seven executive agencies, has awarded the following Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for visual design contracts for communications media. Transport what steps her Department is taking to raise awareness amongst travellers of their rights when Contract title Value (£) Supplier flights are cancelled due to winter weather. [80821] THINK! Road Safety secondary 52,000 EdComms education website design Mrs Villiers: The Government expect air carriers and (technical and visual design and tour operators to honour their obligations to passengers build/delivery) under EU Regulation 261/2004 on denied boarding, THINK! Road Safety primary 2,315 EdComms cancellation and delay, and under the package travel education website design directive 90/314, and to look after their passengers amendments SHARP Motorcycle Safety 750 EdComms during times of adverse weather conditions. website design amendments The Civil Aviation Authority provides guidance on Blue Badge Scheme logo design 1,200 Domarn Ltd their website notifying air travellers of their rights when for information pack and flights are delayed or cancelled and is the UK’s complaint workshops for local authorities Maritime Coastguard Agency 1,410 Chalk and Ward handler. Annual Report Design Aviation: Standards Safety Leaflet Design 752 Rima Design Safety Leaflet Design 140 Rima Design Questionnaire Design 282 Rima Design Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Safety Leaflet Design 552 Spy Design Transport whether her Department’s Sustainable Aviation Policy Framework will promote competition All companies are London based except Chalk and and choice to improve the passenger experience. [81207] Ward who are based in Devon. Design costs Mrs Villiers: The Government wants to see a successful aviation sector which facilitates economic growth and In respect of design costs in last year for which addresses its environmental impacts. We will issue a figures are available, in the financial year 2010-11 the Sustainable Framework for UK Aviation for public Department for Transport, including its seven executive consultation in spring 2012. We are also reforming the agencies, spent £1,200 on logo design. There was no economic regulation of airports to put passengers at the expenditure on the design of stationery in 2010-11. heart of the regulatory regime and to support investment Spend on design in respect of advertising, campaigns in our airports. and buildings is not separately recorded from other costs on buildings, advertising and campaigns and this Bus Services could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Departmental Pay Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport pursuant to the Government’s response to Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for the Transport Committee’s Eighth Report of Session Transport how many officials in her Department 2010-12, Bus services after the Spending Review, received a pay rise other than by promotion in the last published with the Committee’s Ninth Report of two years; and what the average increase was in each Session 2010-12, HC 1550, when her Department will such year. [78531] 257W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 258W

Norman Baker: The following table shows how many sent automatically to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency employees in the Department for Transport and its via a secure electronic link, avoiding the need for a new photograph seven executive agencies received a pay rise other than to be supplied; or by promotion in the last two years, and what the average for photocard driving licence renewal applications only (since increase was in each such year. 2009), a post office service that captures a digital photograph and confirms personal details at the counter before transmitting the Number of increases Average increase (£) transaction securely to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency. In relation to the provision of photographs in support 2010 13,064 664 of passport applications, I understand from the Identity 2011 10,996 584 and Passport Service (IPS) discussions with the Senior civil service (SCS) pay has been frozen since photographic industry have taken place for over 10 years, 2009. Employees outside the SCS in DfT(C) and six of with both individual suppliers and trade bodies such as the executive agencies entered a two-year pay freeze in the Photo Marketing Association International. The 2010, and those in the Highways Agency entered the aim of this activity has been to ensure the widest pay freeze in 2011. possible circulation of its specific photo requirements and standards to allow the maximum number of suppliers Employees on full-time equivalent earnings of £21,000 in the market to be able to offer a compliant service to and under are eligible for a consolidated pay increase of its customers. at least £250. In addition, employees below the SCS with a contractual entitlement remain eligible for progression payments and this is reflected in the table. Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how many notifications of attendance on a Disability Aids: Visual Impairment detoxification programme the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency has received from driving licence holders in the last three years; how many licences have Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for been revoked following such notification; and what was Transport what assessment she has made of the merits the length of ban for each of these. [82147] of introducing a minimum eyesight requirement for (a) users of powered wheelchairs and mobility scooters and (b) pedal cyclists; and if she will make a Mike Penning: Information on how many notifications statement. [82223] of attendance on a detoxification programme or the number of driving licences that have been revoked Norman Baker: As part of the Department for following a notification of attendance on a detoxification Transport’s review of the use of mobility vehicles, I programme or the length of ban for each of these is not have asked my officials to undertake further work with held. transport operators, the mobility vehicles industry and user groups on a range of issues, including a possible minimum eyesight requirement for mobility vehicle users Emergencies and incentives for them to meet these requirements. No final decisions have been made. Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Further details are in my recent announcement in Transport (1) how many full-time equivalent staff work response to parliamentary questions from the hon. Member on the transport workstream of the Capabilities for Bury South (Mr Lewis) on 26 October 2011, Official Programme; and what the staffing level was in each of Report, column 249W, and my hon. Friend the Member the last 10 quarters; [79514] for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke) on 27 October 2011, Official Report, column 284W. (2) who the lead Minister in her Department is for the transport workstream of the Capabilities There are no plans to require cyclists to meet a Programme; [79515] minimum eyesight requirement. (3) what the budget was for the transport Driving: Licensing workstream of the Capabilities Programme in each year since 2005; and what the budget will be during the comprehensive spending review period. [79516] Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what steps she has taken to increase competition in the provision of identity photographs Justine Greening: Work on the Capabilities programme for driving licences and passports. [81361] has been carried out within the budgetary provision for work on transport security and contingency planning. Mike Penning: Competition in the provision of identity The programme does not have a specific budgetary photographs for driving licences has been increased allocation. through the introduction of a range of service channels. Varying numbers of staff from across the Department Customers wishing to obtain a driving licence can choose and its agencies have contributed to the work of the from three channels to make their application: Capabilities programme over the years. Information on a paper application, which has to include a passport size the overall numbers that are or have been involved is photograph supplied from any source (self-produced, and printed not held. But of those in my Department currently professional photographer or automatic booth); involved in this work as part of their duties, the equivalent a web-based application service which can be used provided of one full-time staff member is engaged in the transport the motorist has a recent, valid passport record held by the work-stream. Identity and Passport Service on their database. In this case, the customer can choose to have the existing passport photograph I lead on this policy area. 259W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 260W

Halton Curve national speed limit on motorways. We will include these estimates as part of the documentation for the Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for planned consultation. Transport what recent discussions she has had with local authorities in Cheshire in respect of the Halton Parking: Westminster Curve. [81892] Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Mrs Villiers: We have had no recent discussions with Transport what discussions (a) she, (b) her Ministers local authorities in Cheshire in respect of the Halton and (c) officials in her Department have had with Curve. Westminster council on parking changes; and if she will make a statement. [80264] Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what recent assessment she has had made of Norman Baker [holding answer 14 November 2011]: the viability of the Halton Curve. [81893] Neither Ministers nor officials at the Department for Mrs Villiers: Merseytravel Passenger Transport Executive Transport have had recent discussions with Westminster carried out an assessment of the viability of the Halton city council on parking charges. Curve in 2009. This concluded that three of the four The setting of parking charges in local authority car options studied had benefit cost ratios of between 1.5 and parks and in on-street parking bays is a matter for the 1.9 but would require ongoing annual subsidy of between local authority, in accordance with powers available. £1.1 million and £2.1 million. to it in the Road Traffic Regulation Act (RTRA) 1984. The Department’s operational guidance to local Large Goods Vehicles authorities, “Parking Policy and Enforcement”, makes clear that it is for each local authority to decide what to Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for charge for parking and the decision should reflect the Transport which agencies will be responsible for objectives of their Local Transport Plan. The revenue monitoring the trial of longer semi-trailers for heavy that local authorities raise from on-street parking charges goods vehicles; and if regular updates will be must be used in accordance with section 55 (as amended) published. [81708] of the RTRA 1984, which limits the use of surplus funds to transport related objectives or for environmental Mike Penning: The Vehicle Certification Agency will purposes. have a role in managing and granting Vehicle Special Orders for vehicles used in the trial and in verifying that Ports the longer semi-trailers comply with the relevant technical requirements of Construction and Use and other Regulations. Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what plans her Department has to review the The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency will have 2002 Project Appraisal Framework for Ports. [81217] a role in plating and testing the semi-trailers, and in enforcing compliance with traffic regulations. Mike Penning: The Department intends to complete The main responsibility for monitoring will lie with a review of the “Project Appraisal Framework for Ports” an independent contractor. The contractor’s four-monthly during 2012. monitoring reports and annual reports on the trial will be published on the Department’s website. Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport pursuant to the Government’s response to Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for the Transport Committee’s Fifth Report of Session Transport whether she has made an assessment of the 2009-10, on the Proposal for a National Policy safety implications for cyclists of the trial of longer Statement on Ports, published with the Committee’s semi-trailers for heavy goods vehicles. [81709] Fifth Special Report of Session 2010-12, HC 1598, when her Department will commission new forecasts Mike Penning: The revised Impact Assessment published into port demand. [81223] with the Government’s Report on the Consultation into longer semi-trailers does not disaggregate the safety Mike Penning: The Department intends to commission risk between different categories of road user. new forecasts in the near future. Motorways: Speed Limits Railways: Overcrowding Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what recent analysis her Department Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for conducted of any potential change in the level of (a) Transport what estimate she has made of future fatalities, (b) serious injuries, (c) slight injuries and overcrowding levels on the Greater Anglia rail (d) carbon dioxide emissions attributable to an franchise when Abellio becomes the franchise holder. increase in the motorway speed limit to 80 mph. [82162] [81557] Mrs Villiers: Crowding on the Greater Anglia franchise Mike Penning: The potential effects on casualties and has the potential to increase in line with growth in an estimate of carbon emissions will be included in the commuter numbers, particularly on Great Eastern inner assessment of all the principal effects of raising the suburban and West Anglia outer suburban services. 261W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 262W

However, the trains in these service groups on which Norman Baker: The Association of Chief Police Officers’ crowding is liable to worsen are all ones that Abellio (ACPO) guidance, while indicating 20 mph limits and plans to run at the maximum length that the infrastructure zones should not routinely be considered for enforcement, will allow. does indicate that some enforcement may be appropriate. The Department for Transport is planning to revise Railways: Shrewsbury and reissue its guidance about speed limits in urban areas with the aim of increasing flexibility for local Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for authorities. As part of that process, planned for 2012, it Transport what plans she has to ensure greater funding is liaising with ACPO on enforcement. for development and modernisation of Shrewsbury Thameslink Railway Line: Rolling Stock railway station. [81980]

Mrs Villiers: A scheme to provide improvements at John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Shrewsbury station is included in the National Stations Transport when she expects to announce the award of Improvement Programme and the proposed works are the Thameslink rolling stock contract. [R] [81315] planned to start next year. They will deliver better passenger waiting facilities, a new customer information Mrs Villiers: The Department expects to reach financial point, refurbished toilets and additional customer close on the Thameslink rolling stock contract in the information screens. new year. Shrewsbury station has benefitted from investment Transport: Passengers over the past three years. These benefits include a new fully accessible lift, upgraded signalling to deliver increased Stuart Andrew: To ask the Secretary of State for capacity, a new customer information system and major Transport what the administrative cost was of each repairs to the canopy at the front of the station. passenger transport executive in 2010-11. [81954]

Road Traffic Control Norman Baker: The Department for Transport does not hold this information. Such information can be Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for found in the annual accounts that each passenger transport Transport what discussions she has had with (a) the executive is required to publish. National Union of Journalists and (b) proprietors of Transport: Snow and Ice local newspapers on her proposals to amend guidelines requiring local authorities to publish temporary and Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for permanent traffic regulation orders in local Transport (1) what extra funding she has made newspapers. [80688] available in respect of winter resilience of the transport system; [80824] Norman Baker: The Secretary of State for Transport, the right hon. Member for Putney (Justine Greening), (2) what steps her Department has taken to prepare has not had discussions with the National Union of transport infrastructure for extreme weather in the last Journalists or proprietors of local newspapers on the 12 months. [80846] proposals to amend guidelines requiring local authorities to publish temporary and permanent traffic regulation Norman Baker: The Department has been working orders in local newspapers. The Department will be with public and private sector organisations across the going to full public consultation on this matter shortly, modes of transport to improve winter resilience. providing anyone with an interest with the opportunity This includes through refining and promoting operational to respond. co-ordination and best practice, as in the ports sector, and targeted funding, as in the £200 million allocated to Roads: Accidents councils to address road damage caused by last year’s sever winter weather or the development of a strategic salt reserve, currently valued at £27 million. Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how many road traffic accidents have While we have to acknowledge there may be some occurred at Junction 2 of the M54 since December transport disruption in the event of severe winter weather, 2010. [82132] the actions taken by the Department and transport operators will ensure that the country’s transport systems Mike Penning: There were no recorded accidents at are better equipped to cope with them. Junction 2 of the M54 between December 2010 and the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency end of March 2011, the latest date for which information is available. Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what the budget of the Vehicle and Operator Speed Limits: Association of Chief Police Officers Services Agency is in each year of the current spending review period; and what its budget was in each of the Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for preceding five years. [82163] Transport what assessment she has made of the guidance issued by Association of Chief Police Officers Mike Penning: The Vehicle and Operator Services that 20 mph limits and zones should not routinely be Agency’s accounts and future budgets are set out in the considered for enforcement. [81379] following table. 263W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 264W

VOSA 2005-06 to 2014-15 £ million Annual Accounts Budget Plan 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15

Total Income 151.9 165.5 176.4 184.4 190.2 187.0 182.4 180.6 179.0 177.7

Expenditure (160.3) (184.1) (193.1) (197.7) (204.8) (179.3) (177.5) (173.7) (172.0) (168.6)

Surplus/(Deficit) (8.4) (18.5) (16.6) (13.3) (14.6) 7.7 5.0 7.0 7.1 9.1

WORK AND PENSIONS (2) in how many cases being dealt with by the Child Support Agency there is no current assessment and Atos Healthcare there are arrears to be collected which are between one and three years old. [80241] Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether he plans to include Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis in the list of continuing Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement media education topics available to Atos professionals. Commission is responsible for the child maintenance system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner [81321] to write to the hon. Member with the information Chris Grayling: There are no current plans to include requested and I have seen the response. a module on inflammatory bowel disease in the list of Letter from Noel Shanahan: continuing medical education topics available to Atos In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Healthcare professionals. However, all health care Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive professionals have access to an evidence based repository reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child which contains information about these conditions. Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission. Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how many cases are being dealt with by the Child Support Agency Dame Anne Begg: To ask the Secretary of State for where there is no current assessment but where there are arrears Work and Pensions what the outcome is of the review of less than a year. [80120]; and by the Major Projects Authority of the Child How many cases being dealt with by the Child Support Agency Maintenance and Enforcement Commission’s major where there is no current assessment and there are arrears to be change programme to deliver a new statutory collected which are between one and three years old. [80241] maintenance scheme. [80228] At June 2011 there were 14,700 cases with no current assessment with arrears of less than a year old and 38,400 cases with no Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement current assessment with arrears between one year and three years Commission is responsible for the child maintenance old. Cases with no current assessment value have been defined as system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner cases with a missing assessment value. This will therefore include to write to the hon. Member with the information cases that should not have a current assessment because the case requested and I have seen the response. has been closed as well as those for which the assessment is currently in progress. Letter from Noel Shanahan: These figures are for cases with arrears administered under In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the 2003 rules on the Child Support Agency’s computer system. It is Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary not possible to break down arrears by age for cases administered of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance under 1993 rules. Commissioner. I hope you find this answer helpful. You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, what the outcome is of the review by the Major Projects Authority of Children: Maintenance the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission’s major change programme to deliver a new statutory maintenance scheme. [80228] Stephen Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for A strategic assessment review of the Child Maintenance and Work and Pensions how many cases are being dealt Enforcement Commission Change Programme by the Major with by the Child Support Agency where there is no Projects Authority took place during July 2011 as part of a current assessment but where there are arrears to be planned assurance process. Their brief was to review the outcomes collected between (a) three and five, (b) five and 10, and objectives for the programme and confirm that they make the (c) 10 and 15 and (d) over 15 years old. [81388] necessary contribution to the overall strategy of the organisation and its senior management. The review team provided their Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement report with a series of recommendations and I can confirm that these are being actively followed up by the Commission. Commission is responsible for the child maintenance system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner I hope you find this answer helpful. to write to the hon. Member with the information Child Support Agency requested and I have seen the response. Letter from Noel Shanahan: Stephen Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Work and Pensions (1) how many cases are being dealt Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive with by the Child Support Agency where there is no reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child current assessment but where there are arrears of less Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance than a year; [80120] and Enforcement Commission. 265W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 266W

You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how Learning Disability many cases are being dealt with by the Child Support Agency where there is no current assessment but where there are arrears to be collected between (a) three and five (b) five and 10 (c) 10 and Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 15 and (d) over 15 years old. [81388] and Pensions what steps his Department is taking to The information requested is not available in the specific time increase the level of employment among people with frames requested. However, the information which is available at learning disabilities. [81324] June 2011 is shown in the following table: Maria Miller: The Government are committed to Number of cases with no current Age of arrears assessment with arrears ensuring that all disabled people, including people with learning disabilities, have the opportunities, chances 3 to 4 years 30,700 and support that they need to get a job and remain in 4+ years 32,600 employment. Notes: For example, we launched the Work programme, on 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 100. 2. These figures are for cases with arrears administered under 2003 10 June 2011, which is the biggest single Welfare to rules on the Child Support Agency’s computer system. It is not Work programme providing more personalised back-to- possible to break down arrears by age for cases administered under work support for unemployed people, including disabled 1993 rules. people. 3. Cases with no current assessment value have been defined as cases with a missing assessment value. Please note that this will therefore For disabled people with more complex needs which include cases that should not have a current assessment because the cannot be met through the Work programme, they can case has been closed as well as those for which the assessment is access Work Choice, which provides tailored support to currently in progress. help disabled people who face the most complex barriers I hope you find this answer helpful. to employment, find and stay in work and ultimately help them progress into unsupported employment, where Stephen Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for it is appropriate for the individual. Work Choice contracted Work and Pensions how many and what proportion of providers aim to help around 9,000 disabled people into cases within the live and assessed caseload of the Child work per annum. In addition to the contracted provision, Support Agency are under one year old. [81389] Remploy aims to deliver 7,500 job outcomes through Work Choice in 2011-12. Support can also be provided Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement through Access to Work, Remploy and residential training. Commission is responsible for the child maintenance In December 2010, the Government asked Liz Sayce, system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner the chief executive of the disability organisation RADAR to write to the hon. Member with the information to undertake an independent review of specialist requested and I have seen the response. employment support for disabled people, specifically Letter from Noel Shanahan: Remploy, residential training colleges and the Access to In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Work programme. The Government’s response and a Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive separate public consultation was launched on 11 July reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child 2011. I welcomed the central theme of the review, that Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance resources for supporting disabled people into employment and Enforcement Commission. should be focused on disabled people themselves rather You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how than on specific institutions. The consultation closed on many and what proportion of cases within the live and assessed 17 October 2011. We are currently analysing responses caseload of the Child Support Agency are under one year old. and will produce a summary of responses as soon as [81389] practicably possible. At June 2011 the Child Support Agency was dealing with 1,143,400 cases. Of these, 79,500 or seven percent were under one Following the recommendations of the Sayce review, year old. I have established the Inter-ministerial Group on Disability Employment. The group has set as its aim ensuring I hope you find this answer helpful. coherent working across Government so that meeting their full potential in the workplace is seen as a normal Disability Living Allowance expectation of disabled people and that they receive the support they need to achieve this. On the group Ministers Jessica Morden: To ask the Secretary of State for are represented from the Department for Business, Work and Pensions how many children with autism Innovation and Skills, Department for Work and Pensions were refused the mobility component of disability (DWP), Department for Education, Department for living allowance in the latest period for which figures Health, Department for Communities and Local are available; and how many were successful in Government, Ministry of Defence, Treasury and appealing this decision. [81409] Department for Transport and I have written to Ministers in the Scottish and Welsh Governments to invite their Maria Miller: We are unable to provide information participation in discussions which concern devolved on how many children with autism were refused the policies, mobility component of disability living allowance as DWP is also working with Department for Education claims are not made for separately for mobility or care through the SEN Green Paper to look at how we can components but for disability living allowance as a improve transition from education to work, so that whole and people may be awarded one or both components. young people with special educational needs (including Only claims which receive an award of benefit have a learning disabilities) are better prepared and supported main disabling condition recorded against them. when looking for employment. 267W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 268W

Mobility for the impact of impairments on an individual’s ability to participate in society, allowing us to identify individuals Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work with the greatest need. and Pensions what discussions he has had with (a) I am aware that Scope recently produced a report local authorities and (b) representatives of state- focusing on the first draft of our assessment criteria. funded care providers on overlap of personal mobility Although we have a shared objective with Scope of funding in state-funded residential care; and if he will reforming disability living allowance, ensuring support make a statement. [81150] is targeted at those who need it most, we disagree on how to do this. We continue to be concerned that trying Maria Miller: When we announced that we would to look at every barrier or cost that a disabled person not remove the mobility component of disability living might face will lead to subjective decisions, inconsistent allowance from people in care homes in 2012 we said we outcomes and a more complex, expensive administration would review the position in personal independence process. These are all things we want to avoid in personal payment. independence payment. My officials and I have met numerous organisations A revised draft of the assessment criteria was published representing disabled people, visited care homes and on 14 November. The criteria have been refined considerably had discussions with disabled people as part of the since the initial draft published in May, and this is in evidence gathering exercise on mobility provision in large part as a result of feedback from disabled people care homes. My officials also talked to a number of and disability organisations. We believe that the revised local authorities and many individuals and organisations assessment will provide a fair and accurate reflection of wrote to us to give us their views. individuals’ need, targeting support where it is needed We are now considering the findings of the recently most. published review into provision for the mobility needs of care home residents by Lord Low, before we announce Universal Credit our final decision. Tony Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Personal Independence Payment and Pensions (1) what reporting mechanism he plans to use for the results of the direct payment pilots for David Tredinnick: To ask the Secretary of State for universal credit; [81629] Work and Pensions whether people with autism will be (2) when he plans to commence the direct payment expected to undergo a face-to-face assessment process pilots for universal credit. [81625] during an application for the personal independence payment. [81642] Chris Grayling: The Department has announced that Maria Miller: Claims in disability living allowance we will establish about six small-scale demonstration are currently, for the most part, based on a self-completion projects of the direct payment of housing benefit in the questionnaire. Additional medical evidence is gathered social rented sector. The demonstration projects will in only half of cases and an assessment by a health test some key elements of social sector housing support professional carried out in only a fraction. under universal credit while protecting social landlords’ financial position. The demonstration projects will include: We are determined to change this in personal independence payment. We think that a face-to-face direct payments to tenants being the default; consultation with a trained independent assessor should adopting the payment frequency envisaged under universal be a key part of the assessment process for most individuals. credit; This will allow an in-depth look at the individual’s safeguards to pay the landlord directly where necessary. condition to ensure they have support in place that We will run the demonstration projects in about six really reflects their needs. local authority areas from June 2012 to June 2013, with Face-to-face consultations may not be appropriate in a five-month lead in starting in January 2012. every case. These decisions need to be taken on a The design of the demonstration projects and the case-by-case basis. selection of volunteer areas is currently under consideration, more information can be found on the DWP website David Tredinnick: To ask the Secretary of State for along with a Q&A. Work and Pensions if he will amend the draft criteria The areas and volunteers will be announced in December. and descriptions for the personal independence payment to reflect barriers to participation and The Department is currently tendering for an evaluation of the demonstration projects. The precise form will independence. [81643] depend upon the resources that are available, but we Maria Miller: The proposals for the assessment criteria anticipate that it will include independent research were developed in collaboration with a group of disabled examining the effects on different types of landlords people, disabled people’s organisations and other and households in a range of areas across Great Britain. independent experts. The activities included were chosen The results of the evaluation will be published in accordance to provide a more holistic assessment of the impact of with the Department’s guidelines on commissioned impairments, whether physical, mental or cognitive. research. They are not intended to cover all the areas of Winter Fuel Payments everyday activity or all the activities where disabled people face barriers or cost. Doing so would create a Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for very lengthy and complicated assessment. They are Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the instead intended to, as a group, act as an overall proxy number of people in (a) England, (b) Swindon 269W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 270W borough and (c) Swindon North constituency who At 15 November 2011 will receive the winter fuel payment in each of the next Required strength Actual strength three years. [82101] 39 Engineer Regiment 509 565 Steve Webb: Projections for the numbers of people 34 Field Squadron 167 176 receiving winter fuel payments are not produced below 53 Field Squadron 170 188 the Great Britain level. Total 846 929 The number of people receiving winter fuel payments is expected to reduce slightly each winter due to the rise in the qualifying age linked to women’s state pension Armed Forces: Housing age. However, if the England, Swindon borough and the Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Swindon north constituency share of cases in 2010-11 for Defence what support his Department is providing were maintained in 2011-12, 2012-13 and 2013-14 the to service people to access affordable housing. [81464] number of people projected to receive winter fuel payments would be as given in the following tables: Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence continues to Table 1: Projected winter fuel payment recipients in England support the Armed Forces Home Ownership Scheme Thousand pilot. We also encourage service personnel to explore the three main products available from the Government 2011-12 10,784 to help purchase a property. These are First Buy, New 2012-13 10,675 Build Home Buy and Home Buy Direct. Service personnel 2013-14 10,576 now have the highest priority for access to First Buy schemes. Table 2: Projected winter fuel payment recipients in Swindon borough We are working with mortgage lenders and their Rounded to the nearest 100 professional bodies to develop guidance for their dealings 2011-12 36,700 with members of the armed forces, while assisting personnel 2012-13 36,300 to enter into the UK housing market by offering a long 2013-14 36,000 service advance of pay to those eligible. Changes have also been introduced so that our armed Table 3: Projected winter fuel payment recipients in Swindon north constituency forces and former service personnel should not be Rounded to the nearest 100 disadvantaged when applying for social housing. For 2011-12 19,400 example, when service personnel can establish a local 2012-13 19,200 connection with the area in which they are serving, this 2013-14 19,000 will give parity of treatment for service leavers to access Source: social housing. Key worker status has also been extended Budget 2011 forecasts and DWP statistical data. to service leavers to enable them to access the scheme 12 months after discharge. DEFENCE The Minister for Housing and Local Government, my right hon. Friend the Member for Welwyn Hatfield Adam Werritty (Grant Shapps), made a key pledge on 11 November 2011, to our service personnel to give them the support Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for they need—whether buying their first home or applying Defence whether Adam Werritty was present during for social housing. any meeting where the Trident replacement programme The Joint Service Housing Advice Office provides was discussed. [81699] service personnel and their families with information Mr Philip Hammond: He was not. and advice on the increasingly complex range of civilian housing options. Armed Forces

Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Armed Forces: North Yorkshire Defence (1) if he will estimate the total annual wage cost for service personnel from the 39 Engineer Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Regiment (Air Support) after it includes 34 Field Defence what the military establishment will be in Squadron and 53 Field Squadron from the 25 Engineer Thirsk, Melton and Filey in the next five years. [81527] Regiment; [81668] (2) what the (a) required and (b) actual strength is Mr Robathan: It is currently too early to say at this of (i) 39 Engineer Regiment and (ii) the (A) 34 Field time the details of what the military establishment may Squadron and (B) 53 Field Squadron of the be in Thirsk, Milton and Filey in the next five years. 25 Engineer Regiment. [81669] Mr Robathan: The total estimated wage costs for Armed Forces: Officers 39 Engineer Regiment (Air Support), including 34 and 53 Field Squadrons, is approximately £28 million based Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence on expenditure over the past 12 months. how many four-star officers were appointed in the (a) The required and actual strength of the specified Army, (b) RoyalNavyand(c) Royal Air Force in each units as at 15 November 2011 was as follows: year since 2000; and if he will make a statement. [81353] 271W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 272W

Mr Robathan: The following table shows the numbers Projected in-service dates are shown in bandings to of officers who were promoted to four-star in each year avoid prejudice to national security and/or Defence. since 2000: One of the projects included in the table is a systems engineering facility. This is one of the projects where the Promoted to four- star in year to Naval Service Army RAF decision has been taken to meet the requirement without the need for new buildings. 31 March 2000 0 0 0 31 March 2001 2 1 1 Cost (£ 31 March 2002 2 0 1 Project name Function million) 31 March 2003 1 1 1 2010-11 prices 31 March 2004 0 0 2 Completed projects 31 March 2005 1 3 0 IT server buildings (two Computer/communications 32 31 March 2006 1 0 1 projects) 31 March 2007 0 1 2 New office accommodation Office and business support 78 31 March 2008 0 2 0 Phase 1-Gemini (two buildings) accommodation 31 March 2009 0 0 0 Modular accommodation (five Office and business support 27 31 March 2010 1 2 2 buildings) accommodation 31 March 2011 0 2 1 Car park/landscaping Office and business 3 support/environmental

Armed Forces: Training Outturn Prices Projected in-service period Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011-15 Defence what steps he has taken to ensure that Orion Laser Testing/research 183 UK-supported military training in (a) Ethiopia, (b) Small components interim-Leo Manufacturing/production 16 Uruguay and (c) Ukraine does not include training of Building for high performance Computing/ — children under (i) 16 and (ii) 18 years. [81587] computer-Orchard communications High explosives fabrication- Manufacturing/production 231 Mr Robathan: UK-supported military training in Circinus Ethiopia is directed at senior members of the Army (at least major rank). Therefore, this precludes any involvement Projected in-service period of children. 2016-20 Warhead assembly/ Manufacturing/production 734 In Uruguayan law, an individual cannot join the disassembly-Mensa armed forces unless they are at least 18-years-old. Uranium components-Pegasus Manufacturing/production 634 Consequently any UK supported military training is Laboratory-Octans Testing/research — targeted at individuals above this age. Ukraine’s law stipulates a minimum recruitment age Projects under consideration of 18 years for both conscripts and contract soldiers. following SDSR publication Officer cadets may join at 17 years but are required to High explosives climatic trials Manufacturing/production — complete a minimum of four years’ training before Chemical processing-Astra Manufacturing/production — joining their first unit. Ukrainian personnel receiving High explosives assembly for Testing/research — trials UK-supported military training are required to have Small components-Libra Testing/research — several years’ experience, and are typically non- commissioned or commissioned officers. The UK does Projects not taken forward not train Ukrainian officer cadets. where alternative solutions found AWE New office accommodation Office and business support — Phase 2 accommodation New office accommodation Office and business support — Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Phase 3 accommodation Defence (1) whether he expects development of a new Systems engineering Manufacturing/production — systems engineering facility at the Atomic Weapons Hydrodynamics-Hydrus Testing/research — Establishment to go ahead; [77628] Landscaping Environmental — (2) what his most recent estimate is of the (a) cost and (b) projected in-service date for each of the new build projects in the Atomic Weapons Establishment BAE Systems Site Development Context Plan 2005-15. [77629] Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Peter Luff: The projects included in the Atomic Weapons Defence pursuant to the oral answer to the hon. Establishment Site Development Context Plan 2005-15 Member for Hyndburn of 14 November 2011, Official are shown in the table. The functions of the projects Report, column 574, and to the answer from the given in the table correlate with the headings in the Site Chancellor of the Exchequer to the hon. Member for Development Plan. Fylde of 1 November 2011, Official Report, column Where applicable, the names of projects are indicated 758, on BAE Systems, whether the job losses at BAE where they have been finalised. Costs not shown are Systems are due to a slow down in the Euro fighter being withheld as their disclosure would be likely to programme or as a result of a slowing down in UK-US prejudice the Department’s commercial interests. defence orders in the F35 programme. [82177] 273W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 274W

Peter Luff: BAE Systems issued a statement on Defence of the People’s Republic of China were formally 27 September 2011 which attributed the job losses to a asked in 2009 to provide details of the salvage of HMS number of factors, including a slower than planned Poseidon, particularly with respect to the remains of increase in the F-35 production rates and an agreement the dead servicemen. Following inquiries, the Chinese by the Eurofighter Typhoon partner nations to a request authorities replied that the location of any remnants of from industry to slow Eurofighter Typhoon delivery HMS Poseidon is unknown and that in the course of rates in order to protect their industrial capacities to the salvage no remains of any sailors were found inside service anticipated export orders. The statement also the submarine. acknowledged the need to reduce costs to ensure that In May 2011 the British embassy in Beijing again the company remained competitive both in the UK and raised this matter with the Chinese authorities, who internationally. For its part, the UK Government are reiterated their previous position and confirmed that a energetically promoting exports of the Eurofighter Typhoon full investigation took place in 2009. It is likely that the which will help maintain highly skilled jobs in the UK Chinese authorities have been constrained by incomplete defence and aerospace industry. records, as the salvage occurred during the Cultural Building Stability Overseas Revolution. The Chinese authorities have agreed to share with the UK any further information on this subject that may come to light. Mr Streeter: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence with reference to his Department’s Building Stability Overseas strategy, which countries his Met Office Department has identified as priorities for early warning efforts. [80931] Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what discussions he has had with the Secretary Mr Robathan: The Building Stability Overseas Strategy of State for Business, Innovation and Skills on the (BSOS) was published jointly by the Ministry of Defence, capital receipts arising from the transfer of the Met Foreign and Commonwealth Office and Department Office. [81901] for International Development in July 2011 and all three Secretaries of State announced they would share Mr Robathan: Defence Ministers have had no such joint responsibility for its implementation. The strategy discussions. includes a new approach to turning early warning into early action. By focusing on early warning we will be Military Aircraft able to improve our ability to anticipate instability and potential triggers for conflict thus increasing our Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for opportunity to take fast, appropriate and effective action Defence how many qualified fast jet pilots were where necessary and where UK strategic interests are at available for active service at each year end since 2008. stake. [79118] Early warning processes have been improved by drawing up a watch list of fragile states comprised of countries Mr Robathan: The following table gives information that have a high risk of instability and are also of high for the number of Royal Air Force and Royal Navy fast interest to the UK. These states will be reviewed on a jet pilots who were qualified and current on a front-line regular basis to ensure that all appropriate action is fast-jet type as at 1 April for the last three years. being taken to support the aims of the BSOS. The strategy makes clear that the watch list is internal and Royal Navy and Royal Marines Royal Air Force both the watch list and the early warning report draw on a range of internal HMG reporting and cannot 1 April 20 290 therefore be published for security reasons. However, 2009 1 April 20 260 the BSOS is open about the criteria used to select 2010 countries for attention. 1 April 0 200 2011 HMS Poseidon The information has been rounded to the nearest 10. Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for The number of pilots available for active service will Defence with reference to the answer of 24 June 2009, vary on a daily basis, for reasons including other work Official Report, columns 967-8W, on HMS Poseidon, duties, sickness or annual leave. Retrieving this data what information his Department holds on the would require a manual search of individual pilots’ circumstances in which HMS Poseidon was salvaged by records and so this information could be obtained only the government of China; if he will publish the text of at disproportionate cost. any (a) representations made to the Chinese Government and (b) replies received in respect of the The reduction in fast-jet pilot numbers reflects the (i) recovery and (ii) disposal of the remains and withdrawal from service of the Harrier and Tornado F3 personal effects of the crew members of the submarine; aircraft. if he will make it his policy vigorously to pursue this matter on behalf of the families of the deceased crew Military Bases members; and if he will make a statement. [81646] Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence takes matters Defence how much it will cost to convert (a) RAF concerning UK military maritime graves very seriously. Cottesmore and (b) RAF Kinloss into Army bases; The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ministry of National and how long each such conversion will take. [81486] 275W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 276W

Mr Robathan: It is currently too early to say at this Mr Duncan: The EU has allocated ¤65 million in time how long it will take, or how much it will cost to funding for Argentina through the Development convert RAF Cottesmore and RAF Kinloss into Army Cooperation Instrument between 2007 and 2013. EU bases. funding for Argentina aims to support reforms to achieve sustainable economic growth, employment and social Military Bases: Radioactive Waste cohesion. The UK position is that aid spending should target the poorest countries. In the context of the EU, Mr Gordon Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for co-operation should take different forms for countries Defence on what date officials from his Department which are already experiencing sustained growth or most recently visited the site where radiation tests are which have sufficient resources of their own. being carried out at Dalgety bay. [81589] Argentina: World Bank Mr Robathan: Ministry of Defence officials most recently visited Dalgety bay on 27 September 2011. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what his policy is on the Trident US Administration’s decision to oppose new World Bank loans to Argentina. [77063] Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence whether the Trident nuclear weapon system Mr Duncan: As long as a country is not in arrears to and its successor was discussed by his predecessor in the bank, the UK’s position on loans from the World Washington (a) between 21 and 22 September 2010, Bank to borrowers such as Argentina is based on the (b) between 22 and 25 May 2011 and (c) between merits of each project, on a case-by-case basis. 31 July and 3 August 2011. [81689] Burundi: Overseas Aid Mr Philip Hammond: They were not. Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for World War II: Military Decorations International Development what steps his Department is taking to ensure that withdrawal of funding to Burundi is managed in a way which does not negatively Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for affect the country’s development. [77555] Defence whether his Department has found evidence in the archives of the HD Committee that awarding an Mr O’Brien: Although the office will close and bilateral official campaign star or clasp for the Arctic convoys projects will end, DFID will not stop supporting Burundi. was (a) considered and rejected or (b) not considered From 2012, DFID will concentrate exclusively on when campaign awards were determined at the end of supporting Burundi’s integration into the EAC through the Second World War. [81647] regional funding of TradeMark East Africa’s (TMEA) programme in Burundi. DFID will also continue to Mr Robathan: The HD Committee is not a Ministry contribute to multilateral efforts. This includes around of Defence body, but contemporary medal papers make 15% in central funding to the EU’s work and 14% of it clear that the convoys to north Russia were considered World Bank funding in Burundi. The EU and World at the time that the qualifying criteria for the WWII Bank provided £135 million to Burundi in 2010. DFID campaign Stars and Medals were under discussion. is also a major contributor to the UN’s Peace-Building From the outset, the qualifying criteria for the proposed Fund, which agreed a new contribution of $9 million Atlantic Star were designed to include recognition of for Burundi in 2011. service on the Russian convoys. The regulations for the Also, the TMEA-funded reform of the Burundi revenue Atlantic Star specifically allude to the Arctic convoys in system will in its first full year alone generate over the qualifying criteria. £35 million in additional revenues. This is more than Accordingly, I have placed a copy of the relevant three times the size of the DFID bilateral programme. section in the Library of the House. Democratic Republic of Congo: Elections

Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT International Development what discussions he has had with (a) diaspora communities, (b) faith groups Argentina and (c) civil society groups on the holding of elections in the Democratic Republic of Congo. [77556] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development whether he has any plans Mr O’Brien: I had a very interesting meeting last to visit Argentina in an official capacity. [77077] week on the Congo with members of the Congo Now coalition, which includes representatives from non- Mr Duncan: I have no current plans to visit Argentina. governmental and faith-based organisations. The group raised the need to increase women’s participation in Argentina: EU Aid politics and elections, support for elections observation and support for elections beyond 2011, particularly for Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for local elections in 2013. The UK is either already supporting International Development what his policy is on the or has plans to support all these areas either directly or provision of aid to Argentina by the EU. [77064] as a member of the European Union and their electoral 277W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 278W observation work. Other than this meeting I have not More specifically DFID is participating in the work had any formal direct contact with diaspora communities of the Government-appointed Task and Reference groups in the UK. on disability. The DFID office in Kinshasa is in regular contact Departmental Flags with the Congolese Government, civil society organisations (including faith-based organisations) and international agencies, especially the UN, with regards to the elections Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for and to support the process. International Development how many flags his Department (a) owns and (b) maintains; and at what cost to the public purse [77082] Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what support his Mr Duncan: As from May this year the Union Jack Department is providing to the holding of elections in flies all year round outside the Department for International the Democratic Republic of Congo. [77557] Development in London. The Department for International Development’s office Mr Duncan: The UK’s support to the electoral process in East Kilbride, Scotland is focused on strengthening the new electoral commission, has six flags consisting of: voter registration, civic education and election security. We will increase the participation, particularly of women two Union flags that are flown all year round; and first-time voters, in both voter registration and the one St Andrew flag that is flown all year round; elections themselves, by improving understanding of two European Union flags that are flown when directed. These the electoral process. have not been flown since May 2010. Our programme is also helping to develop an one Armed Forces day flag that is flown on Armed Forces day and when directed. independent, well-regulated, more diverse and professional media, which can promote open and issues-based debate These flags were bought several years ago. There are in advance of elections. We are supporting elections-related currently no maintenance costs on these flags. projects implemented by Congolese civil society Departmental Judicial Review organisations, through our support to the Civil Society Fund. Along with other donors we are supporting the Congolese police to be able to provide security during Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for the elections, through a focus on communications and International Development what applications for applying community policing principles. Complementing judicial review have been made against his Department this we are assisting the Inspector General Audit and (a) in the last Parliament and (b) since May 2010; civil society to monitor the role of the police during the whether each such application (i) succeeded, (ii) failed elections. and (iii) remains pending; what legal costs were incurred by his Department for each such application; We have already exceeded one of our operational in each failed application whether he applied for costs plan results, with voter registration reaching 32 million, against the applicant and whether they were (A) compared to 26 million in 2006, and a 31 million target. awarded and (B) paid; whether his Department (1) paid DFID’s contribution to elections in the Democratic for and (2) offered to pay for the legal costs incurred by Republic of Congo (DRC) is £31 million. This accounts each such applicant; and what the total cost to the for more than a third of total donor pledges to date. public purse was of payment of the legal costs for each such applicant. [80715] Departmental Equal Opportunities Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International Development has had no applications for judicial review Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for made against it since May 2010 or in the period covering International Development what recent steps his the last Parliament. Department has taken to promote equality of opportunity for employees of his Department. [77083] Developing Countries: Biodiversity

Mr Duncan: The Department for International Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Development (DFID) has developed a new Equality International Development (1) what the estimated Framework, which is a strategic approach aimed at value to the UK economy is of natural capital in meeting the requirements of the Equality Act 2010. The developing countries; [80284] framework aims to improve equal opportunities for all (2) how the value of natural capital in developing our staff and to minimise the administrative burden to countries is taken into account when measuring the achieving this aim. It has a number of objectives intended effectiveness of UK aid; [80285] to provide a workplace that is representative of all (3) how the UK encourages developing countries to groups and values staff. value their natural capital when measuring economic To enable it to promote equality of opportunity for progress. [80286] employees DFID annually monitors its work force against targets intended to address previously identified areas Mr Andrew Mitchell: The UK is fully committed to of under-representation at all grades in our work force. supporting initiatives which correct the systematic We offer a range of development opportunities and undervaluation of natural assets in developing countries. training with equalities content, open to all our staff The Department for International Development (DFID) including those located overseas. is supporting both the Economics of Ecosystems and 279W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 280W

Biodiversity (TEEB) study, which seeks to draw attention Developing Countries: Food to the global economic benefits of biodiversity, and the World Bank’s Wealth Accounting and Valuation (WAVES) Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for initiative, which seeks to enable developing countries to International Development what steps he has taken in value biodiversity and ecosystem services and to integrate support of the L’Aquila food security initiative. [81418] these values in decision making and national accounting. DFID’s Climate and Environment Assessment Mr Andrew Mitchell: The latest financial year for mainstreams environmental protection in all of DFID’s which we now have finalised UK Statistics on International large programmes. The share of aid which delivers Development is 2010-11. After two years of our three-year environmental protection is therefore much higher than AFSI financial commitment period we have disbursed the share of aid that is directly attributable to biodiversity over 80% of our overall commitment of £1.1 billion conservation and eco-systems services. through our bilateral programmes and through multilateral channels. We therefore expect to meet our spending commitment in full by the end of the period. We have Developing Countries: Climate Change also played a leading role among AFSI signatories in promoting the adoption of the aid effectiveness principles Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for agreed as part of the AFSI declaration in our approach International Development if he will work with the to work on food security. Mexican Government during its chairing of the G20 to Our support has been instrumental in helping eradicate prioritise climate change adaptation and the reduction animal diseases like Rinderpest and roll out crops like of disaster risk in development approaches for the orange fleshed sweet potato which, among other benefits, successor to the L’Aquila initiative. [81420] improves the vitamin A status of children. In Ethiopia, UK support to the productive safety net is helping over Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Mexican Government have seven million people escape long term dependency by yet to present a formal work plan for its presidency of providing cash for work opportunities which build the G20 next year, so it is not yet clear if climate change community infrastructure such as classrooms and access adaptation and the reduction of disaster risk will be roads. DFID is also attracting new money and partnerships considered. If these issues are taken up for specific to increase jobs and incomes generated through agricultural consideration, I would support this. Following this year’s investment. In Nigeria DFID is working with the private humanitarian emergency response review, I have committed sector to supply 170,000 households with affordable to make disaster resilience a core part of DFID’s approach fertiliser, create 55,000 jobs and generate an additional in all of our country programmes, integrate disaster £4.8 million income. DFID has also scaled up interventions resilience into our work on climate change and play a to tackle under-nutrition in 20 million children. By leadership role in promoting this agenda. We will work 2012, we will be spending in excess of £12 million on closely with Mexico as it takes over the presidency. nutrition research—doubling our investment since 2009. Similarly we have doubled our spending on direct Developing Countries: Females interventions (e.g., vitamin A to prevent blindness) from around £40 million in 2009.

Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what steps he has taken to International Development what assessment he has provide support for tackling violence against women made of the effectiveness of the L’Aquila food security and children in the context of humanitarian assistance. initiative in (a) increasing food security and (b) [81586] reducing malnutrition. [81419]

Mr Andrew Mitchell: I have made tackling violence Mr Andrew Mitchell: After two years of our three against women and girls one of the Department for year AFSI financial commitment period (2009-12) we International Development’s four top priorities in our have disbursed over 80% of the £1.1 billion committed Gender Strategy. Up to 25 of our 28 country offices are by the UK. We expect to meet our spending commitment either programming or planning to programme in this in full by the end of 2012 through both our bilateral and area. Specific to our humanitarian assistance we address multilateral channels. Examples of results that UK the needs of women and children exposed to risk of funding for food security related activities has helped to violence through our influence over the international achieve include high yielding rice varieties specifically community and by ensuring that the UK’s own protection suited to dryland areas now grown by three million programmes in crisis situations address their needs. households across India; the development of vaccines For example, through our core funding to International for East Coast Fever and support for the eradication of Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the United Nations Rinderpest—two important diseases of cattle in Africa— High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), and the which will improve the livelihoods of millions. And in United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF), we enable Ethiopia, DFID support is helping 1.2 million people their protection work to address the needs of women escape long term dependency on food aid by promoting and children exposed to violence in humanitarian settings. cash for work, which is giving the poorest an income to Most recently, in the UK’s own response to the crisis in invest in their farms and send their children to school, Haiti we ensured that our implementing partners integrated and building vital community infrastructure such as the needs of women and children in their protection water points. programmes, one practical example being providing On malnutrition, along with a number of partner adequate lighting in camps to make women and children governments, the Gates Foundation and multilateral feel safe. agencies, we are supporting the Scaling Up Nutrition 281W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 282W

(SUN) initiative—the most promising mechanism for To date the UK has provided food for 250,000 people, accelerating action to improve nutrition in the first emergency nutrition treatment to some 11,000 severely 1,000 days of a child’s life and have already committed acutely malnourished children and vaccinations against to double our reach through nutrition interventions measles for over 900,000 children. UK support has also from 10 million to 20 million children under five years funded clean water, shelter, and other humanitarian of age. support to those in need. These results have been The UK is working with other the AFSI signatories achieved with a number of partners working in difficult to develop robust evaluation process for reviewing the conditions, where access to affected populations is not impact of both the AFSI financial commitments and easy. Almost all UK humanitarian aid for Somalia is the commitments made to the five aid effectiveness and directed towards the famine affected areas in the South partnership principles underpinning their efforts. of the country. The recent assessment by the UN’s Food Security Developing Countries: Politics and Government and Nutrition Analysis Unit has recorded a modest improvement in the situation, with three of the previous Mr Streeter: To ask the Secretary of State for six famine regions no longer classified as being in International Development with reference to his famine. However, needs remain huge, and the UK will Department’s Building Stability Overseas strategy, continue to play its part in the response, and lobby when he expects the first early warning report to be others to meet their fair share. released. [80932] Mr Duncan: The Building Stability Overseas Strategy Libya: Elections explains that the Early Warning Reports are underpinned by all-source analysis. This means they draw on a range Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for of internal Government reporting and cannot therefore International Development whether he has received be published for national security reasons. any requests from the Libyan National Transitional Council for UK support for capacity-building for the East Africa: Disease Control planned 2012 elections. [81590] Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what steps he is taking to Mr Andrew Mitchell: The United Nations Support prevent the spread of disease in refugee camps in East Mission in Libya (UNSMIL) leads for the international community on the provision of election support to the Africa during the rainy season. [81634] Libyan authorities and this has been one of its foremost Mr Andrew Mitchell: The onset of rains in the drought priorities. UNSMIL has, at the request of the National stricken parts of the East and Horn of Africa has Transitional Council (NTC), begun to provide expertise increased the risk of disease outbreaks among weakened and support to the NTC in relation to electoral process, populations, particularly in the large refugee camps of electoral law, the future electoral management body, Kenya and Ethiopia. The greatest disease risks include voter registration and civic education. cholera, measles and malaria. The UK is working closely with the NTC and UNSMIL In Somalia the UK has provided measles vaccinations to identify where we might support Libyan-led processes. to over 900,000 children to mitigate against the spread We are particularly keen to support participation by of measles to refugee camps—eventually over 1.3 million women and young people and are encouraging the children will be vaccinated. NTC to take this into account in the political process. In Ethiopia, the UK has helped to provide clean The UK has not received any specific requests for water, healthcare and vaccinations for over 100,000 support for the 2012 elections, but we will continue to Somali refugees, as well as supporting the UN refugee work with the NTC and UNSMIL on this issue. agency to prevent the spread of disease and pre-position supplies and staff. Overseas Aid In Kenya, the UK has helped to provide safe drinking water to approximately 300,000 Somali refugees. Over Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for 65,000 Somali refugees are now benefitting from UK International Development how many (a) letters and funded latrines in the camps. The UK is also helping to (b) emails he has received concerning aid provision in provide primary health care services to Somali refugees. developing countries in the last 12 months for which In October, UK funded health centres undertook over figures are available. [77085] 12,600 consultations. Mr Duncan: Over the past 12 months the Public East Africa: Droughts Enquiry Point has received the following items:

Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for Number International Development what progress his Department has made in assisting those in need in Items with ’aid’ as subject 2,239 those parts of Somalia worst affected by conflict where Items with ’aid provision’ as 2,247 famine was declared in July 2011. [81635] subject Items with ’aid to developing 2,247 Mr Andrew Mitchell: Britain has let the response to countries’ as subject the crisis in Somalia, the UK has provided over £57 million since July to address the country’s extraordinary Over the same time period we have received 1,335 humanitarian situation. letters regarding the provision of aid. 283W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 284W

Somalia: Asylum elements of the bid (for example pension mark-up applies only to pay roll costs). Overall totals/percentages Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for therefore will differ between individual bids reflecting International Development what steps he is taking to the overall cost of the bid itself. work with the international community and the Phase 1 Competition Government of Kenya to identify lasting solutions for the Somali refugee population which respect The full list of uplifts applied the public sector bids international legal principles. [81265] for the Phase 1 which included Birmingham and Buckley Hall were as follows: Mr Andrew Mitchell: I discussed refugee issues with 6.5%—Added to direct costs to reflect indirect costs/corporate the Government of Kenya during my visit to Kenya in overheads July, when I also visited the Dadaab refugee camp. I also saw the Kenyan Minister of State for Provincial 3%—Added to payroll costs for pensions Administration and internal Security, George Saitoti 2% or 1%—Added to total costs to reflect risk retention when he visited London on 21 November. (depending on prison, ie 2% HMP Birmingham Resettlement and local integration are unlikely to £ cost—Actual cost of insurance quoted by a commercial provide durable solutions for the vast majority of Somali insurer refugees. Opportunities should be taken to incentivise £ cost—Actual cost of bidding assuming recover rate of 1.67 voluntary to Somalia return where it is safe to do so. on £1.1 million But large scale return remains unlikely without greater stability in Somalia—a key objective of our development The insurance cost quoted for Birmingham was £406,794. and political engagement there. Based on these principles the overall mark-up for UK Government officials therefore continue to work each of the public sector bids was less than 10%. with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and other donors to press the Kenyan Government to fulfil their obligations under international Civil Disorder refugee law. My Department has allocated £6 million since July to UNHCR and other partners to support 130,000 refugees with relief assistance, including healthcare, Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice nutrition, shelter and water and sanitation. I am currently of those found guilty of offences committed during the considering what support we should provide in 2012. public disorder of summer 2011, how many have (a) appealed the decision and (b) subsequently been Somaliland: Sovereignty successful in their appeal. [81591] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how many (a) letters and Mr Blunt: Appeals made by defendants found guilty (b) emails his Department received concerning the at all courts for offences relating to the public disorder recognition of the independence of Somaliland in the from 6 to 9 August, as at 16 November 2011 (latest last 12 months for which figures are available. [77084] available figures), can be viewed in the following table: Mr Duncan: In the last 12 months, the Department Appeals made by defendants found guilty of offences relating to the public 1,2,3 for International Development has not received any disorder between 6 and 9 August 2011—data as of 16 November 2011 ministerial correspondence concerning the recognition Appeal court of independence of Somaliland. Crown court Court of Appeal Total Over the same time period we received 15 inquiries by Appeals made 22 43 65 e-mail to the Public Enquiry Point on this subject. Of which: Successful, 16 4 20 sentence reduced JUSTICE Abandoned/ 51823 refused/ Birmingham Prison dismissed Awaiting 12122 Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice hearing or whether additional costs were added to the public judgment sector bid in respect of the recent tendering process for 1 In order to allow timely reporting of statistics on defendants proceeded against at the magistrates courts for offences resulting from the 6 to 9 August HM Prison Birmingham. [81847] period of public disorder a dataset has been compiled from manual returns from the courts. This table was compiled from data received by 16 November Mr Blunt: The public sector bid team were required 2011. to make a series of uplifts and adjustments to their bid 2 The statistics relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found for HMP Birmingham. guilty of two or more offences the principal offence is the offence for which All bidders were made aware of the Principles of the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory Competition for Phase 1 Prisons Competition (inclusive maximum penalty is the most severe. of HMP Birmingham) including the uplift on bid costs 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and for the public sector at the start of the process. complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police The Principles of Competition requires a public sector forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection bid to apply both percentages and fixed amounts to processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. cover specified individual costs but it is important to note Source: that some percentage mark-ups only apply to specific Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice 285W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 286W

Civil Proceedings Criminal Injuries Compensation: Sexual Offences

Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice whether he has considered introducing a civil Justice in how many (a) rape and (b) adult sexual cases review commission. [81995] assault applications compensation has been refused or reduced by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Government have no plans due to (i) previous convictions or other bad character, to introduce a civil cases review commission. Unlike (ii) the applicant having been found not to be a victim criminal cases civil cases are disputes between private of crime, (iii) the applicant not fulfilling the parties. If a party is unhappy with the outcome of a requirement of reporting the matter to the police cases it is for them to determine whether to take any without delay, (iv) the applicant not supporting a further steps, including the whether to apply to the prosecution and (v) any other reason in each of the last court for permission to appeal. five years. [81421] Mr Djanogly: CICA do not have figures showing how Crime: Victims many people were refused compensation categorised by reference to specific crimes. The Criminal Injuries Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Compensation scheme (the scheme), which was approved what assessment he has made of the findings of the by Parliament in 2008, provides for awards to be assessed Victims’ Views of Court and Sentencing report by the primarily by reference to criminal injuries. Injury Commissioner for Victims’ and Witnesses in England descriptions, from the scheme’s ’tariff of injuries’, are and Wales; and what steps he will be taking in response therefore used as the primary basis for calculating and to the findings. [82115] recording payments actually made. CICA can produce figures based on awards paid. The Mr Blunt: The Government are giving careful tariff contains several injury descriptions that could consideration to the findings of the Victims’ Commissioner’s apply to people who have been sexually assaulted, a report on victims’ views of court and sentencing. We subset of those descriptions are the most likely to apply are determined to ensure that victims are supported in to victims of rape. The figures CICA is able to produce, the best way possible, and that victims who need it which follow, are therefore based on claims where they receive reparation from offenders and have access to paid awards to adult victims for these injury descriptions. restorative justice. The Government are reviewing these Figures are not included for those who were found not issues, and will be publishing proposals for consultation to have been victims of a crime, since CICA would not in due course. pay an award in those circumstances.

Number of reduced awards for rape/other sexual assault Convictions or character Delay in reporting Not supporting a prosecution Other Financial year Rape Other Rape Other Rape Other Rape Other

2006-07 42 11 3 l 4 2 81 2 2007-08 30 20 2 l 31 1 14 4 2008-09 44 20 l 3 2 0 21 0 2009-10 49 27 0 2 3 l 0 0 2010-11 71 34 3 0 2 l 0 0

Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for to victims of rape. The figures CICA are able to produce, Justice how many (a) rape and (b) adult sexual assault which follow, are therefore based on claims where they victims have applied for compensation from the paid awards to adult victims for these injury descriptions. Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority in each of Number of full awards the last five years; and how many received full awards Financial year Rape Other sexual assault of the recommended amount. [81422] 2006-07 377 490 Mr Djanogly: CICA do not have complete figures for 2007-08 504 522 how many people made applications under the Criminal 2008-09 773 573 Injuries Compensation scheme (the scheme) categorised 2009-10 726 525 by reference to specific crimes. The scheme, which was 2010-11 854 527 approved by Parliament in 2008, provides for payments to be made by reference to criminal injuries. Injury Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for descriptions, from the scheme’s ‘tariff of injuries’, are Justice how many (a) rape and (b) adult sexual assault therefore used as the primary basis for calculating awards victims who were refused compensation by the so they are only reliably recorded once CICA have Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority were assessed someone as eligible to receive the compensation granted it by the First Tier Tribunal in each of the last payable for that injury. five years. [81423] CICA can produce figures based on awards paid. The tariff contains several injury descriptions that could Mr Djanogly: Awards under the Criminal Injuries apply to people who have been sexually assaulted, a Compensation scheme are based on the injuries people subset of those descriptions are the most likely to apply sustain. Injury descriptions, from the Criminal Injuries 287W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 288W

Compensation scheme’s ’tariff of injuries’, are used as LinkedIn the primary basis for paying compensation. Disqus CICA can produce figures based on awards paid. The Getsatisfaction tariff contains several injury descriptions that could AddThis apply to people who have been sexually assaulted, a subset of those descriptions are the most likely to apply Drugs: Rehabilitation to victims of rape. The following table shows the number of awards the Tribunals Service have made for sexual Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for offence injury descriptions in cases CICA initially refused Justice what recent assessment he has made of the in each of the last five financial years. performance of the drug recovery wings that his Number of appeals awards following CICA refusal Department is piloting; and if he will make a Financial year Rape Other sexual assault statement. [81889] 2006-07 23 12 2007-08 22 15 Mr Blunt: Drug recovery wing (DRW) pilots have 2008-09 25 10 been launched in five prisons. An implementation study 2009-10 23 8 has already commenced and an interim report will be 2010-11 21 7 available in July 2012. A Department of Health evaluation study is expected to be commissioned on an open competitive tender basis and to start in autumn 2012. Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice in what circumstances the Criminal Injuries Employment Tribunals Service Compensation Authority will refuse (a) at first instance, (b) at review and (c) on appeal claims for compensation by victims of rape or adult sexual Ian Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice assault where there has not been (i) a complaint to what estimate he has made of the effect on the number police, (ii) a charge brought or (iii) a prosecution. of employment tribunal cases of the introduction of a [81429] [81443] charge for registering a claim.

Mr Djanogly: Each case is dealt with on its own Mr Djanogly: We are in the process of developing merits using the evidence available, such as police and proposals for the introduction of fees into the employment medical evidence, and the criteria do not change when a tribunals and Employment Appeal Tribunal and options case is at review or appeal. The Criminal Injuries are still being finalised. We will be consulting on our Compensation Scheme 2008 makes clear that it is not proposals shortly. The consultation document will set necessary for an assailant to be convicted for a victim to out the options for proposed fee structures and the get compensation. indicative fee levels which might be applied. No decision will be made on the level of fees to be paid until that Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for consultation has been completed. The impact assessment Justice what steps the Criminal Injuries Compensation which will accompany the consultation document will Authority (CICA) will take to determine whether a provide details of the estimated impact of the introduction claimant for compensation alleging rape or sexual of fees on the number of claims received by employment assault has been a victim of crime in cases where there tribunals. has not been (a) a complaint to police, (b) a person charged and (c) a prosecution; and what steps CICA Ian Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice will take to make such a determination in cases where what changes have been made to the budget of the Employment Tribunal Service since May 2010; and the defendant was acquitted at trial. [81536] what assessment he has made of the effect of such Mr Djanogly: Each case is dealt with on its own changes on the average time for concluding merits using the evidence available, such as police and employment tribunals. [81431] medical evidence. The Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme 2008 (the Scheme) places the onus on the Mr Djanogly: Employment tribunals (ETs) are claimant to establish on the balance of probabilities administered by Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals that an offence has been committed. That is not the Service (HMCTS), which has a central operating budget. criminal standard, and it is not necessary for any charge The direct element of that budget in relation to ETs was or conviction to have been secured. £60.9 million for 2010-11 and £59 million for 2011-12. These budget figures do not include apportioned overheads. No detailed budgets have yet been agreed or finalised Departmental Internet for future financial years. The reduction in budget allocation between 2010-11 Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for and 2011-12 reflects the HMCTS drive for continual Justice what social media presence his Department has. efficiency improvements. It also reflected a slight decrease [80829] in workloads before the ETs. The assessment made by HMCTS is that the reduction should not lead to any Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Department has a presence lengthier period between receipt and disposal of cases. on the following social media channels: Indeed, the latest available management information Twitter shows performance against timeliness targets has improved Youtube in the first quarter 2011-12 to 62%, relative to 58% in Flickr the same quarter of 2010-11. 289W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 290W

HMCTS publishes annual and quarterly statistics payment and listings capabilities are going through an which cover workloads and performance against timeliness iterative development and testing cycle. HMCTS is measures, including (where available) historic trends. currently working with its suppliers to agree a new This material is available on the Ministry of Justice package of system enhancements and upgrades including website: those capabilities and new features such as a web-based http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/statistics-and-data/ end user interface. The scope and timetable have not yet tribunals/index.htm been agreed. The most recent published information is in respect of Official Solicitor and Public Trustee Office: Freedom of the first quarter of 2011-12 (April to June). Information

HM Courts and Tribunals Service: ICT John Hemming: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice if he will bring forward proposals to bring the John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Office of the Official Solicitor within the jurisdiction of Justice (1) what the total cost of HM Courts and the Freedom of Information Act 2000. [81839] Tribunals Service E-working project has been; [81474] (2) how many claims were filed by HM Courts and Mr Djanogly: We are currently considering the position Tribunals Service on the E-working system in each of the Office of the Official Solicitor under the Freedom quarter since its inception; [81475] of Information (FOI) Act. I will write to the hon. Member with further information on this point once (3) what the original target date was for completion our consideration is complete. of the HM Courts and Tribunals Service E-working project; and what his most recent estimate is of the Prisoners’ Release: Plymouth likely completion date for the system. [81476] Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Djanogly: The costs covering the period from Justice how many offenders with addresses in November 2008 (project start) to September 2010 (departure Plymouth on conviction were released to addresses in of the original development team) were £5,848,000 and Plymouth in the last 12 months. [81547] these costs have been confirmed in a response to a Freedom of Information Act request number 70941. Mr Blunt: A total of 89,924 offenders were released From October 2010 to September 2011 the costs were from custodial sentences in 2010. It is not possible to £1,155,796. say how many of these had an address in Plymouth at Total costs to date are therefore £7,003,796. both the time of conviction and on release because full Costs for October 2011 onwards are still under discussion address information is not held centrally. The information between HMCTS and their suppliers as part of the will be held locally by offender managers, however to scoping and planning exercise referred to the following gather it would incur disproportionate cost. table. Prisoners: Ex-servicemen The number of claims that have been filed electronically since the inception of the e-Working system in 2009 is Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for set out in the following table. Justice whether armed forces veterans are identified routinely on reception to prisons in England and All e-working Wales. [81897] (electronic and Filed Financial year scanned) electronically Totals Mr Blunt: Prison reception staff are not required to 2009-10 ask newly arrived prisoners whether they have served in Q1 6 4 10 the armed forces. However, prisoners have the opportunity Q2 38 51 89 to discuss aspects of their background with staff during Q3 110 41 151 the induction and assessment processes. Governors of Q4 337 69 406 more than 100 prisons have made resources available to the Veterans in Custody Support scheme, which encourages 2010-11 prisoners who have served in the armed services to Q1 540 42 582 disclose this, if they chose to do so. Q2 1,495 33 1,528 Prisoners: Foreign Nationals Q3 1,826 21 1,847 Q4 1,979 109 2,088 Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many foreign national prisoners of each 2011-12 nationality are being held in HM Prison (a) Brixton, Q1 14,369 7 4,376 (b) Feltham, (c) Holloway, (d) Isis, (e) Latchmere Q2 2,136 21 2,157 House, (f) Pentonville, (g) Wandsworth and (h) 1 High volume of HM Revenue and Customs petitions filed in this quarter Wormwood Scrubs. [81488] The e-Working system was originally due to complete in March 2010, with roll-out of an electronic filing, Mr Blunt: The following tables show the number of document management, payment and listings capability foreign national prisoners of each nationality being for jurisdictions moving into the Rolls Building. The held in each of the listed prisons, as at 30 September core e-Filing and Document Management parts of the 2011. HMP Latchmere House is now closed and was system are now live in those jurisdictions and online not holding any prisoners on 30 September 2011. 291W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 292W

These figures have been drawn from administrative system, are subject to possible errors with data entry IT systems which, as with any large scale recording and processing.

Table 1: Population in prison by selected establishment and nationality status, 30 September 2011 Establishment British nationals Foreign nationals Nationality not recorded Total population

Brixton 523 233 19 775 Feltham 537 151 36 724 Holloway 374 149 37 560 Isis1 458 75 5 538 Pentonville 876 379 46 1,301 Wandsworth 1,024 547 109 1,680 Wormwood Scrubs 677 433 123 1,233 1 HMP & YOI Isis, which opened on 28 July 2010, is sited within the perimeter wall of HMP Belmarsh. Note: These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems. Care is taken when processing and analysing the returns, but the detail collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent in any large scale recording system, and so although shown to the last individual, the figure may not be accurate to that level.

Table 2: Foreign national prison population by nationality and selected establishment, 30 September 2011 Wormwood Brixton Feltham Holloway Isis Pentonville Wandsworth Scrubs Total

Afghanistan 3 13 1 1 2 3 5 28 Albania 0 0 1 1 6 7 8 23 Algeria 2 7 0 1 8 13 8 39 Angola 4 1 0 0 2 1 2 10 Antigua and 00010001 Barbuda Armenia 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 Australia 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 Azerbaijan 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 Bangladesh 11 5 2 1 13 7 1 40 Barbados 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 2 Belgium 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 Benin 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 Bermuda 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 Bolivia 0 0 2 0 0 0 1 3 Bosnia and 00000101 Herzegovina Brazil 4 0 4 0 5 2 4 19 Bulgaria 0 1 11 0 2 5 3 22 Burundi 0 0 0 0 1 2 2 5 Cameroon 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 3 Central African 00010001 Republic Chile 0 1 0 0 0 3 1 5 China 1 1 3 2 1 6 3 17 Colombia 6 0 2 1 2 4 5 20 Congo 4 8 1 1 11 4 6 35 Costa Rica 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 Croatia 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 Cyprus 3 0 0 0 1 1 0 5 Czech Republic 3 3 4 0 0 8 1 19 Denmark 0 0 0 0 1 0 3 4 Dominica 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 Ecuador 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 Egypt 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 3 Equatorial Guinea 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 Estonia00010304 Ethiopia 5 2 0 0 3 2 3 15 French Guiana 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 France 6 3 4 4 1 16 4 38 Gambia 1 0 0 0 1 5 1 8 Georgia 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 2 Germany 1 1 0 1 2 6 2 13 Ghana 5 2 1 3 7 9 8 35 Gibraltar 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 2 Greece 0 0 0 0 2 0 3 5 Grenada 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 3 Guinea 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 2 293W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 294W

Table 2: Foreign national prison population by nationality and selected establishment, 30 September 2011 Wormwood Brixton Feltham Holloway Isis Pentonville Wandsworth Scrubs Total

Guyana 0 0 1 0 1 1 2 5 Hungary 1 0 0 0 2 8 4 15 India 2 0 1 0 8 6 49 66 Iran 1 3 1 0 3 8 10 26 Iraq 1 4 0 0 1 6 3 15 Irish Republic 13 5 3 2 21 16 24 84 Israel 2 2 1 0 1 3 4 13 Italy 0 0 2 1 3 4 5 15 Ivory Coast 2 2 1 1 3 0 1 10 Jamaica 37 18 15 15 35 29 15 164 Japan 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 Jordan 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 Kenya20011408 Kuwait01000225 Latvia 1 0 2 0 5 19 7 34 Lebanon 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 2 Liberia 1 0 0 0 0 2 0 3 Libyan Arab 01010338 Jamahiriya Lithuania 9 2 4 5 32 29 11 92 Macedonia 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 3 Malaysia 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 2 Mauritania 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 2 Mauritius 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 Mexico 0 0 2 0 1 4 4 11 Mongolia 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 Montserrat 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 3 Morocco 2 2 2 0 4 6 4 20 Mozambique 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 Namibia 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 Nepal 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 3 Netherlands 2 6 2 0 1 3 12 26 Niger 0 0 2 2 1 2 0 7 Nigeria 12 5 9 6 25 22 23 102 Pakistan 5 0 0 0 13 12 3 33 Paraguay00000101 Philippines 0 0 3 0 1 1 1 6 Poland 15 2 7 2 27 99 43 195 Portugal 11 7 1 2 8 8 7 44 Romania 8 9 18 5 31 57 31 159 Russian Federation 0 0 3 0 2 6 5 16 Rwanda 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 2 Saudi Arabia 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 2 Senegal 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 2 Serbia and 01001103 Montenegro Sierra Leone 4 1 0 1 5 2 2 15 Slovakia 0 0 0 1 2 2 2 7 Somalia 10 13 6 4 19 16 34 102 South Africa 2 1 2 1 1 5 1 13 Spain 1 0 2 0 0 1 2 6 Sri Lanka 3 0 1 0 3 11 8 26 St Kitts and Nevis 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 St Lucia 0 1 0 1 2 0 1 5 St Vincent and the 10001002 Grenadines Sudan 0 0 0 0 1 1 2 4 Suriname 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 Sweden 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 2 Switzerland 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 Syrian Arab 00000123 Republic Tanzania 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 3 Thailand 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 295W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 296W

Table 2: Foreign national prison population by nationality and selected establishment, 30 September 2011 Wormwood Brixton Feltham Holloway Isis Pentonville Wandsworth Scrubs Total

Trinidad and 21 20 3 1 2 11 Tobago Tunisia 0 1 0 0 1 3 0 5 Turkey 7 2 1 0 10 5 3 28 Uganda 3 2 1 1 1 2 2 12 Ukraine 3 0 1 0 1 1 3 9 United Arab 00000101 Emirates United States 0 0 0 0 0 3 1 4 Uzbekistan 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 2 Vietnam 4 5 5 0 6 4 4 28 Western Sahara 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 Yemen, Republic of 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 Zambia 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 3 Zimbabwe 0 2 1 2 2 2 0 9

Total 233 151 149 75 379 547 433 1,967 Note: These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems. Care is taken when processing and analysing the returns, but the detail collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent in any large scale recording system, and so although shown to the last individual, the figure may not be accurate to that level.

Prisoners: Repatriation Mr Kenneth Clarke: On 21 November, I issued a public consultation on judicial diversity and appointments. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice It includes a number of proposals that will encourage how many foreign national prisoners have been greater diversity in the Supreme Court. repatriated from HM Prison (a) Brixton, (b) Feltham, (c) Holloway, (d) Isis, (e) Latchmere House, (f) Pentonville, (g) Wandsworth and (h) Wormwood EDUCATION Scrubs since May 2010. [81580] Children: Day Care Mr Blunt: In 2010, 5,235 foreign national prisoners were removed or deported from the United Kingdom at Bob Stewart: To ask the Secretary of State for the end of their sentence. Between May 2010 and Education what steps his Department is taking to 8 November 2011, a total of 57 prisoners were repatriated promote flexibility and choice in child care provision. from England and Wales to complete their sentences in [80147] their countries of origin. Of the 57 prisoners, two applied for repatriation while resident in HMP Wandsworth Sarah Teather: Local authorities have a statutory and two applied while resident in HMP Wormwood duty to secure free early education places, of 15 hours a Scrubs. week for 38 weeks of the year, for all three and four-year- olds. The early years single funding formula reforms, All prisoners repatriated from England and Wales introduced by the Government in April, ensure that are taken to HMP Wandsworth (male prisoners), HMP funding for the free early education entitlement follows Holloway (female prisoners), and HMP Belmarsh, (high the child and is driven by parental demand. Places are security prisoners), immediately prior to their removal available in a wide range of providers including maintained from the United Kingdom. nursery classes, pre-schools, full day nurseries and registered Probation: Ex-servicemen childminders to enable parents to choose the most appropriate setting for their child. Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice The Department is also funding trials in 18 local how many probation trusts have appointed a veterans authorities to support the expansion of free early years link to ensure armed forces personnel are directed to education to disadvantaged two-year-olds from 2013, relevant welfare agencies. [81879] and a number of these trials are testing new approaches to increasing flexibility. The trials will run until 31 March Mr Blunt: It is the responsibility of each probation 2012. trust to make arrangements to address the needs of We are currently consulting on proposals to make the offenders who have previously served in the armed entitlement more flexible to increase take up and better forces. To date, 18 of the 35 probation trusts have meet families’ needs. This would enable the free hours appointed a veterans link. The remaining trusts are to be taken between 7 am and 7 pm (rather than alive to the needs of ex-service personnel and are looking between 8 am and 6 pm as currently), with a maximum at ways to address them. of 10 free hours per day. We also propose to enable Supreme Court: Public Appointments parents to take up the full 15 hour entitlement over two days (rather than the current minimum of three days). Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Local authorities have a statutory duty to secure what steps his Department is taking to encourage sufficient child care to meet the needs of working parents. greater diversity and gender equality in the Supreme The Government are keen to encourage local authorities Court. [82219] to do more to keep parents informed about what they 297W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 298W are doing to meet this duty. We are consulting on meet Home-Start UK to discuss work under this grant whether a local annual report would be a more effective agreement to ensure financial propriety and value for and meaningful way of enabling parents to hold their money, local authority to account for the choice and availability Local Home-Start schemes provide vulnerable families, of suitable child care locally. who may feel isolated from the local community, with The consultation is available on the Department’s practical and emotional support. No assessment of the website: effects of Home-Start on families in Norfolk has been http://www.education.gov.uk/consultations commissioned by the Department for Education. and will run for 12 weeks. School Meals: Standards In addition, the Department is providing funding through the voluntary and community sector grants Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for programme to the Daycare Trust to promote the benefits Education whether he plans to commission research on of early education and child care to parents, and to adherence to nutritional standards for food served in 4Children to foster the diversity of early years provision free schools. [81136] and choice for parents. Sarah Teather: Free schools have the same legal status Children: Hearing Impairment as academies which are not bound by the nutritional standards, although the standards provide a benchmark Peter Aldous: To ask the Secretary of State for of good practice. The Secretary of State has asked the Education (1) what information his Department School Food Trust to look at the approach taken by collects on the number of people qualified as specialist academies to providing healthy school food for their social workers for deaf children in (a) England and pupils, including a mixture of established and new (b) Suffolk in each of the last three years; [80943] academies. We have no plans for separate work looking (2) what the average number was of deaf children just at free schools. supported by a specialist social worker for deaf children in (a) England and (b) Suffolk in each of the last three years; [80935] ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS (3) how many specialist workers for deaf children there were in (a) England and (b) Suffolk in each of Agriculture: Conditions of Employment the last three years. [81025]

Sarah Teather: The Department does not hold Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State information centrally about the numbers of social workers for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent and specialist workers working with deaf children. Data discussions she has had with ministerial colleagues on from the General Teaching Council for England show the potential effects on agricultural workers of that there are currently 896 active teachers who hold the proposed changes to employment regulations. [80894] mandatory qualification for teaching pupils with a hearing impairment. Mr Paice: The Government are committed to reviewing employment enforcement and compliance law over the lifetime of the current Parliament. As part of this Children’s Centres: Leicester process, DEFRA officials work closely with colleagues in other Departments to assess the affect of employment Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for law proposals on agricultural workers. However, there Education how many children have participated in Sure have been no recent cross-departmental ministerial Start services in Leicester South constituency since its discussions on this issue. introduction. [81305] Agriculture: Finance Sarah Teather [holding answer 15 November 2011]: The Department does not collect this information. Local Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for authorities have a statutory duty to ensure there are Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans she sufficient children’s centres in their area to meet local has to ensure an unproblematic transition from classic need, so far as is reasonably practicable. It is for local agri-environment agreements schemes such as the authorities to commission children’s centres and to Environmentally Sensitive Areas and Countryside monitor and evaluate the use and impact of their services. Stewardship schemes to successor agri-environmental schemes such as the Uplands Entry Level Schemes and Home-Start Higher Level Stewardship within the constraints of available staffing and funding. [81238] George Freeman: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what recent discussions he has had with Mr Paice: Natural England takes a proactive approach representatives from Home-Start; what assessment he to ensure there is a seamless transfer for farmers with has made of the effects of Home-Start on families in expiring Environmentally Sensitive Area (ESA) and Norfolk; and if he will make a statement. [81327] Countryside Stewardship Scheme (CSS) agreements into the appropriate Environmental Stewardship (ES) agreement. Sarah Teather: Home-Start UK receives a grant from That approach involves contacting agreement holders the Department for Education to support its provision at least a year before their agreement is due to end and of services to local Home-Start schemes. Officials regularly offering free advice about their options. 299W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 300W

To date, 85% of the area formerly under an ESA or Animal Welfare: Circuses CSS agreement has successfully transferred into an ES agreement. Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for Not all ESA/CSS agreement holders will be eligible Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent for Higher Level Stewardship and, where this is the assessment she has made of legal advice as to whether case, farmers are being strongly advised to consider a ban on wild animals in circuses would be lawful signing up to the Entry Level Stewardship (ELS) strands under (a) EU law generally and (b) UK directive of ES. Natural England offers free specialist assistance 2006/123/EC. [80262] through individual farm visits to those considering ELS to assist with appropriate option choices and provide Mr Paice: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I information on the application process. gave to the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert), Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for during the oral answers to questions on 13 October Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she 2011, Official Report, columns 467-68. has taken to ensure that Environmental Stewardship schemes take account of both the preservation of Animal Welfare: Dogs traditional farming and of conservation. [81245] Mr Paice: Environmental Stewardship (ES) has a Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for pivotal role in DEFRA’s priorities to enhance the natural Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she environment and to improve the quality of life. has taken to encourage consistency in the fees charged by local authorities for the return of stray dogs. [80723] ES objectives cover both wildlife conservation and the preservation of traditional farming practices, including: the maintenance of important traditional landscape Mr Paice: Under the Environmental Protection (Stray features such as hedgerows and dry stone walls; encouraging Dogs) Regulations 1992, local authorities are entitled to conservation of existing traditional orchards and planting charge the owner of a stray dog all expenses incurred of new trees using traditional varieties; protection of during the dog’s detention, plus a prescribed amount of the historic environment (including protection of £25. The length of each dog’s detention may vary and archaeological features and restoration and maintenance additional costs such as veterinary treatment may also of traditional farm buildings); and protection of natural be incurred. It is therefore difficult for every local resources (through improvements to water quality by authority to charge a similar amount. reducing soil erosion and surface water run-off). Following the 2010 spending review, spending on Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Higher Level Stewardship, which is targeted at delivering Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate the highest possible environmental benefits, will increase she has made of the number of dogs placed in animal by more than 80% by 2013-14 compared to 2010-11. welfare establishments in each of the last five years. This represents a significant endorsement of the scheme [80724] and its potential. It ensures the protection and maintenance of the environmental benefits delivered to date, and Mr Paice: The Government do not keep figures for allows for further growth of these benefits. the number of dogs handed into independent animal DEFRA is continuing to work with Natural England welfare establishments. However, the Minister for Animal and stakeholders to improve ES’ environmental effectiveness Welfare, Lord Taylor, has frequent meetings with and value for money. representatives of these organisations and we are aware of the rise in the number of dogs that they are caring Agriculture: Sky Lanterns for.

Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State Biodiversity: Finance for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent assessment she has made of the risks to crops and farm animals posed by sky lanterns. [80779] Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) how much Mr Paice: We are aware of the concern among farmers her Department has spent on measures to protect and the wider agricultural community about the potential biodiversity in each year since 2000; and what her risks of lanterns. We are continuing to work with other Department plans to spend on such measures in each Departments and the agricultural industry to address year until 2014-15; [80139] them. (2) what the budget is for implementation of Sky lanterns can seriously injure or even kill cattle Biodiversity 2020: A Strategy for England’s Wildlife because the animals sometimes eat the lanterns’ wireframes. and Ecosystem Services; and how that budget will be There is also the problem of litter caused when the spent. [80309] smouldering remnants of lanterns fall into farmers’ fields. Richard Benyon: Details of the main elements of In the summer I asked the British Hospitality Association biodiversity expenditure are provided in the following to advise hotels, restaurants and other venues to discourage table. These figures represent spend by DEFRA customers from using sky lanterns because of the problems programmes and the wider DEFRA network but do they are causing in the countryside. We also take steps not include staff costs. They also include total agri- to make the public aware of the problems which sky environment scheme expenditure, of which a major lanterns can cause before using them. share is judged to be spent on biodiversity. 301W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 302W

Expenditure (£ million) 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

DEFRA: Agri- 80.1 81.3 104.9 129.8 167.8 187.2 254.6 323.3 349.4 351.1 environment schemes

Other DEFRA expenditure: Biodiversity n/a 0.1 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.1 2.5 2.3 2.8 3.2 Programme Research 0.2 1.2 2.3 1.7 1.5 1.9 6.5 5.0 6.3 5.8

Environment 3.9 3.9 4.0 3.9 5.9 10.5 11.6 7.3 23.5 25.5 Agency Forestry 18.1 20.1 15.1 14.4 14.7 17.7 22.8 28.1 33.3 32.0 Commission Natural England 34.0 43.9 57.2 57.2 55.5 57.3 54.1 52.7 52.4 56.9 Joint Nature 1.0 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.4 1.8 1.8 2.1 1.7 2.1 Conservation Committee DEFRA network 137.3 151.5 184.8 208.3 246.9 276.5 353.9 420.8 469.4 476.6 total

DEFRA Global 3.0 3.0 3.0 4.0 5.0 7.0 10.1 11.0 6.7 7.1 Biodiversity expenditure Kew—UK spend 0.7 0.8 0.8 1.0 1.2 1.1 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.1 Kew—Global 20.4 22.1 22.9 28.8 32.6 28.2 30.6 30.6 33.9 28.8 spend

We do not have a single dedicated budget for biodiversity the regulator (the local authority for plants of less than protection measures, nor “Biodiversity 2020”. Funding 50 MW, otherwise the Environment Agency) to set for both comes from a wide range of sources within emission limit values and associated monitoring DEFRA, and from arm’s length bodies and beyond, requirements for any pollutant likely to be emitted in and much of the contributing action goes beyond the significant quantities. Emission limit values for particulate measures directly focussed on biodiversity. In view of matter act as a surrogate for black carbon emissions. this and the current financial climate it is not possible to There is currently no internationally agreed measurement predict what these budgets will be in future, nor what standard for black carbon and definitions of what proportion will be spent on biodiversity measures. We constitutes black carbon vary. are developing a delivery plan for “Biodiversity 2020”, If a biomass generating plant, irrespective of its rated to be completed in early 2012, which will set out the thermal input, burns waste (other than untreated waste actions to be taken to implement the strategy. wood and certain other specific types of waste), it must also meet the stringent requirements of the Waste Biofuels: Pollution Incineration Directive (2000/76/EC). This includes a requirement to carry out at least two measurements a Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for year of arsenic emissions to air. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will bring forward proposals to prohibit the combustion of Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control chromated copper arsenate wood in biomass power stations. [81509] Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State Richard Benyon: Plants that use waste fuels, including for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what treated wood containing heavy metals such as chromium, meetings officials in her Department have had to arsenic and copper, are already subject to the very discuss the proposed badger cull based on shooting stringent operating requirements of the Waste Incineration since January 2011; and with whom. [80781] Directive (2000/76/EC). This provides a high level of protection for the environment and human health. Mr Paice: In addition to internal meetings, since January 2011, DEFRA officials have met representatives Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for from the following organisations to discuss the proposals Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether she for badger control: plans to measure levels of (a) black carbon and (b) Association of Chief Police Officers arsenic emissions from biomass generating plants in Badger Trust the UK. [81510] British Association of Shooting and Conservation British Veterinary Association/British Cattle Veterinary Association Richard Benyon: If a biomass generating plant has a rated thermal input of greater than 20 megawatts, it is Country Land and Business Association subject to regulation under the Environmental Permitting DEFRA’s Science Advisory Council (England and Wales) Regulations 2010. These require Independent scientific experts 303W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 304W

National Beef Association The transfer of British Waterways to the charitable National Farmers Union sector creates new opportunities for growing income National Gamekeepers’ Organisation from private and commercial sources, making efficiencies National Trust and forming supportive partnerships. The charity will also be able to borrow against its assets and so expand Royal Society for the Protection of Birds income in the longer term. The move will, therefore, Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals improve the long-term financial sustainability of the TB Epidemiology and Wildlife Risks Programme Advisory waterways. Group TB Eradication Group for England Carbon Emissions TB Science Advisory Body Tenant Farmers Association Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Wildlife Trusts. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will take steps to assist local authorities to establish local low Other Government Departments and agencies: emission zones by providing support with (a) costs Home Office and (b) enforcement; and if she will make a statement. Cabinet Office [82078] Sir John Beddington (Government’s Chief Scientific Adviser) Richard Benyon: DEFRA already publishes guidance Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency to local authorities that wish to establish low emission Food and Environment Research Agency zones. It includes advice on selecting methods for Natural England. implementation, practical issues that have arisen in implementing previous schemes, and how to appraise Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State potential costs and air quality benefits. We have also for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what provided funding, through the air quality grant scheme, meetings (a) she and (b) officials in her Department to several local authorities to support investigations plan to have to discuss the proposed badger cull based into local low emission zones. on shooting in the next six months; and with whom. The Government are working with local authorities [80782] and others to explore the feasibility of providing further support to local authorities on low emission zones. Mr Paice: The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Dangerous Dogs Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman), is planning to meet again with key stakeholder groups before announcing Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State a decision on the badger control proposals. It is likely for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many that officials will also meet with a number of key items of correspondence her Department has received stakeholders, but there are currently no firm plans for on dangerous dogs since June 2010. [80993] such meetings. Mr Paice: The data requested are shown in the following Canal and River Trust: Finance table.

Type Number Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what steps Letters received from the public 204 she plans to take to address the projected funding E-mails received from the public 333 deficit for British Waterways as a result of its moving Letters received from Members 423 from public to charitable ownership; [81858] of Parliament (2) what plans she has for Government funding and Letters received from organisations 35 grants to British Waterways after it converts to Total 995 Note: charitable status. [81859] Data downloaded from DEFRA’s Management Information System (Contact) on 10 November 2011. Richard Benyon: The majority of funding for British Waterways comes from its commercial activities and Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State through its licensing operations rather than from for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what the Government grant funding. During the last spending estimated cost to the public purse is of kennelling review period, grant funding contributed between 30% dangerous dogs seized under the provisions of the and 35% of British Waterways’ revenue that is spent on Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 in each of the last five years; the waterways in England and Wales. [81044] In the current, tough fiscal environment, the Government (2) how many dogs have been seized by police in will give the Canal and River Trust (CRT) the best England and Wales under the Dangerous Dogs Act possible start. We have already committed to transfer 1991 since June 2010; and what the estimated cost to British Waterways’ commercial property portfolio, which the public purse is of such police action. [81047] is valued at £460 million, to the CRT, and to long-term funding at the 2014-15 level of £39 million to 2022-23 Mr Paice: The cost to police forces across England of inclusive. The amount and terms of the funding agreement kennelling dogs under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 in are currently subject to negotiation between the CRT each year since 2005 cannot be provided because these trustees and the Government. figures are not held centrally. However, I am able to 305W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 306W provide a breakdown of the cost to the Metropolitan Organisation Salary band (£) Number of staff police of kennelling dogs under the Dangerous Dogs Act1 19911 in each year since 2005, which is provided in DEFRA £65,000 to £94,999 148 the following table: £95,000 to£139,999 19 1 The figures in the following table provide a breakdown of £140,000to 2 kennelling and care costs for all dogs, not just dogs seized under £174,999 Section 1 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. However, over 85% of £175,000+ — the dogs seized by the Metropolitan police are done so under Animal Health Veterinary £65,000 to £94,999 9 Section 1 of the Dangerous Dogs Act. Laboratories Agency Cost to Metropolitan police of kennelling dogs £95,000 to £139,999 2 £ £140,000 to — Financial Veterinary £174,999 year Boarding fees Transport Total £175,000+ —

2005-06 148,922.00 250.00 0 149,172.00 Veterinary Medicines £65,000 to £94,999 3 Directorate 2006-07 403,185.18 1,340.00 0 404,525.18 £95,000 to £139,999 1 2007-08 834,251.41 1,370.00 0 835,621.41 2008-09 1,253,401.03 17,677.89 5,198.00 1,276,276.92 £140,000 to — £174,999 2009-10 1,750,215.27 245,657.56 93,177.74 2,089,050.57 £175,000+ — Source: Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) Status Dog Unit Rural Payments Agency £65,000 to £94,999 3 The cost to the Metropolitan police and to police £95,000 to £139,999 1 across England of seizing dogs cannot be provided £140,000 to 1 because use of police time is not recorded in this way. £174,999 £175,000+ — Departmental ICT Food and Environment £65,000 to £94,999 3 Research Agency Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State £95,000 to £139,999 3 for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the £140,000 to — status is of her Department’s new SAM IT system. £174,999 [80774] £175,000+ — Centre for Environment, £65,000 to £94,999 3 Mr Paice: Release 6 (R6) of AHVLA’s Sam system Fisheries and Aquaculture went live on 26 September 2011. There have been some Science issues with the implementation of the system. £95,000 to £139,999 1 AHVLA and their IT services contractor are working £140,000 to — closely to resolve all the issues and are confident that £174,999 the Sam system will be functioning normally by mid- £175,000+ — December, with significant improvements week by week. Departmental Location Departmental Public Expenditure

Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many civil Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether she servants in her Department have been (a) relocated receives any external funding for (a) her ministerial and (b) agreed to relocation in the last 12 months; and office and (b) her advisers; and what the (i) source and to which areas of the UK. [74897] (ii) amount is of any such funding. [78020] Richard Benyon: The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has not relocated any civil Richard Benyon: The Secretary of State for Environment, servants, nor agreed to relocate any civil servants, in the Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the last 12 months. Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman), receives no external funding for either (a) her ministerial office or (b) her Departmental Pay advisers. Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many Departmental Responsibilities officials in her Department and the bodies for which she is responsible earned more than (a) £65,000, (b) Fiona O’Donnell: To ask the Secretary of State for £95,000, (c) £140,000 and (d) £175,000 in the last year Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on what dates for which figures are available. [78055] the (a) Green Infrastructure Partnership, (b) Natural Richard Benyon: The following table shows the number Capital Committee and (c) Ecosystem Markets Task of staff in core-DEFRA and its Executive Agencies Force has met. [81473] (The Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency, Veterinary Medicines Directorate, Rural Payments Agency, Richard Benyon: The Green Infrastructure Partnership Food and Environment Research Agency and Centre was launched on 11 October with many partners in for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science) attendance. Officials have had numerous bilateral meetings with base pay of more than (a) £65,000, (b) £95,000, with partners and we are organising the first partnership (c) £140,000 and (d) £175,000. workshop for 5 December this year. 307W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 308W

We are currently recruiting the chair and members of Under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 (as amended the Natural Capital Committee, and expect that its first 1997), one of the requirements, under which an individual meeting will be in early 2012. prohibited type dog may be permitted to be entered on The Ecosystem Markets Task Force is launching on to the Index of Exempted Dogs, is that it is microchipped. 23 November at the Nomura HQ in London and the The adequacy of the current legislation and the wider first meeting of the taskforce is due in early December. issue of dangerous dogs and irresponsible dog ownership There has already been significant pre-work with the is currently being looked at. chair, members and the secretariat to ensure that the taskforce gets off to a good start. Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she Departmental Security has taken to increase the numbers of dogs which are micro-chipped. [80722] Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps her Department is taking to improve cyber-security in Mr Paice: The Government support voluntary relation to her Department’s estate; and if she will microchipping of dogs. DEFRA Ministers and officials make a statement. [75136] are currently engaged with key stakeholders from wider government, the police, animal welfare and dog keeping Richard Benyon: Government take cyber-security very organisations about how to promote more responsible seriously and it has been categorised as a tier 1 threat to dog ownership and tackle dangerous dogs. One of the UK national security. £650 million is being invested proposals under consideration is the compulsory over the next four years in a National Cyber Security microchipping of dogs. Programme, working across Departments, with the private sector, international partners and citizens to improve the UK’s cyber-security capability. Farming and Wildlife Advisory Group DEFRA routinely assesses the prevailing threats to its ICT systems and applies appropriate and proportionate measures in accordance with the Government standards Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for set out in the Cabinet Office’s Security Policy Framework Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent (SPF); these standards are aligned with industry best discussions she has had on the future of the Farming practice approaches. and Wildlife Advisory Group. [81190] It is not in the interest of national security to make public details of particular improvements in relation to Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State individual Departments as it may expose vulnerabilities for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what to those who may seek to exploit them. assessment she has made of the future of independent environmental and conservation advice to farmers in Dogs: Tagging the event that the Farming and Wildlife Advisory Group closes. [80780] Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment Mr Paice: Pursuing the twin objectives of a competitive she has made of the adequacy of regulations governing farming sector which plays a full part in protecting and the microchipping of dogs. [80721] improving the environment is a priority for this Government and the Farming and Wildlife Advisory Group (FWAG) Mr Paice: There are certain circumstances where epitomises that dual purpose. microchipping of dogs is a legal requirement. Under the current Pet Travel Scheme rules, all dogs The Farming Regulation Task Force identified the entering the UK must be fitted with a microchip as part importance of ensuring that the environmental messages of animal health requirements to keep the UK free we give to farmers and their advisors are clear and from rabies and certain other diseases. Identification is well-prioritised. In the Natural Environment White Paper mandatory for pets (cats, dogs and ferrets) moving we have committed to undertake a review of advice and under EC Regulation 998/2003, which lays down conditions incentives for farmers. In taking this work forward we that must be complied with when moving pets between are very conscious of the role of independent environmental European member states and into the European Union and conservation advice providers, such as FWAG. from non-EU countries. The UK brings its procedures Officials from DEFRA and Natural England have into line with the European Union on 1 January 2012. been in close contact with FWAG over recent weeks to Under the Welfare of Racing Greyhound Regulations establish the facts of the current situation and understand 2010, dogs must be microchipped to take part in races the implications. Now that FWAG has gone into and trials. The greyhound regulations are due to be administration I know that local groups are examining reviewed in 2015. ways in which they can continue their work. Under the Docking of Working Dogs’ Tails (England) FWAG played an important role in the delivery of (Regulations) 2007, it is a requirement for a legally advice for a number of Government initiatives, including docked dog to be identified by a microchip. The tail helping farmers to participate in agri-environment schemes docking regulations were looked at as part of the review and the campaign for the Farmed Environment. The undertaken by DEFRA into the effectiveness of the need for this work will continue and independent advice Animal Welfare Act 2006. DEFRA consulted a wide delivered by organisations like FWAG will continue to range of stakeholders, but no evidence was presented play a key role in supporting and developing British relating to these regulations. farming. 309W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 310W

Marine Conservation Zones governments, other Government Departments in the UK, as well as the Welsh Government and other Devolved Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Governments. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs with reference to I am delighted to say that exports of meat and meat her Department’s Guidance on Selection and products rose in the first half of 2011 by 15%. The Designation of MCZs (Note 1), September 2010, if she rising figure is the comparison with the same period in will use best information currently available as the 2010. criterion for her designation of marine conservation The UK Trade and Industry Strategy and DEFRA’s zones. [80631] business plan both contain commitments. During his recent visit to Russia, the Prime Minister personally Richard Benyon: The Government’s policy is that the placed discussions about lamb and beef exports high on best available evidence should support the designation the agenda, demonstrating the priority the Government and management of marine conservation zones (MCZs). attaches to the issue. It is important that there is an adequate evidence Milk: Imports base if successful well-managed MCZs are to be established. DEFRA wants to make sound decisions on which sites to take forward for designation, so we have, and will Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for continue to, ensure quality assurance processes are put Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much of the in place. UK’s milk was imported in the latest period for which figures are available. [74923] It was always foreseen that Natural England and the Joint Nature Conservation Committee would examine Mr Paice: In 2010, the UK imported 88 million litres the adequacy of the evidence for the site recommendations of raw milk and 125 million litres of liquid drinking produced by the four regional MCZ projects. DEFRA milk. will also be commissioning additional work to support MCZ designation, including an in depth review of the The figures in the following table show the UK evidence base for all the regional projects’ site production and supply of all milk products on a liquid recommendations and committing additional resources milk equivalent basis expressed in litres for 2009, the to carrying out sea bed and habitat monitoring. latest year for which these figures are available on this basis. All imports and exports of milk products are As part of the MCZ process, the Government are included here other than milk products in composite also addressing the recommendations of the independent products, e.g. baked goods. review of the evidence process for selecting Special Areas of Conservation published in July 2011. The Whole Whole processes agreed with Natural England and the Joint milk milk Nature Conservation Committee comprise three phases equivalent equivalent of milk of milk which would be timed to enable recommendations to be UK liquid and milk and milk Total Production taken into account in formulating their final advice on milk product product new as % of MCZs: production imports exports supply new (billion) (billion) (billion) (billion) supply (1) an independent review of the protocols by which they will formulate their advice; 2009 13.2 6.24 2.84 16.61 80 (2) an independent review of the evidence base supporting Source: regional project recommendations; and DEFRA Overseas Trade Statistics (3) an independent review of the draft advice from Natural Poultry: Animal Welfare England and the Joint Nature Conservation Committee, which will then be addressed in finalising their advice to DEFRA. Mr Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State We will continue the work to ensure that the for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps recommendations and decisions on MCZ designation she is taking to protect against the import of illegal and how sites will be managed are based on the best eggs from countries which are not compliant with the available science and evidence. European welfare of laying hens directive. [78623]

Meat: Overseas Trade Mr Paice: We have made it clear to the Commission that those producers who have invested in new systems must not be required to compete with producers both at Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State home and in a number of member states who have for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps failed to comply with the directive. her Department is taking to support the UK meat industry to access new overseas markets. [80901] While the Commission is still seeking information from some member states and considering proposals for enforcement, we are developing our own plans in the Mr Paice: DEFRA is taking a number of steps to event that the Commission fails to act. increase exports of meat, and to promote UK food more generally. Poultry: EU Law In doing so, DEFRA works closely with a number of partners to identify and target resources on key market George Freeman: To ask the Secretary of State for negotiations about animal and public health issues for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent countries outside the European Union. These partners progress she has made on complying with the 1999 EU include industry through the UK Export Certification laying hens directive; and if she will make a statement. Partnership and Export Certification User Groups, foreign [81329] 311W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 312W

Mr Paice: We expect the vast majority of UK producers Water Abstraction will be compliant by 1 January 2012. In addition to the industry carrying out its own Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for audits, the Government are making their own efforts to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what discussions forecast as far as possible likely compliance by the end she has had with the Secretary of State for Defence on of the year. Inspectors from the Animal Health and the abstraction of water from chalk streams on Veterinary Laboratories Agency (AHVLA), the agency Ministry of Defence land. [77221] responsible for enforcing the conventional cage ban in Richard Benyon: In 2009 DEFRA consulted on the Great Britain, are visiting all known cage producers. abstraction provisions of the Water Act 2003 and the They are reminding producers of the need to comply Environment Act 1995 with the aim of removing certain with the conventional cage ban by 1 January 2012 and exemptions from abstraction licence control. These at the same time finding out producers’ intentions, as to provisions included requiring Crown bodies to be subject whether they will cease production or convert to alternative to the same licensing provisions as non-Crown bodies. systems. In addition, DEFRA commissioned ADAS to The Ministry of Defence and a representative from prepare a report on the progress that the UK egg project Aquatrine, the Ministry of Defence’s water and industry has made towards achieving full compliance wastewater operation and maintenance public-private with the legislation as at 1 September 2011. partnership, responded to the consultation. The intelligence gathered from both these exercises We intend to end all abstraction exemptions, other suggests that there were likely to be substantially fewer than those that pose little risk to the environment. We than 0.5 million conventional cage places still in use at are currently reviewing the consultation responses and the start of the final quarter of 2011. Of these remaining the concerns raised. producers we expect many will either retire from the industry at the end of the year or have a break in production while they decide how best to continue in the industry. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE The Government will be taking tough enforcement Carbon Emissions Reduction Target action with any UK producers found to be non-compliant after 1 January 2012. Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has Rivers made of the potential effect on the insulation industry of the transitional period between the end of the Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Carbon Emissions Reduction Target and the start of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will the Energy Company Obligation. [81567] prohibit the discharge of raw sewage into English Gregory Barker: We have considered how to avoid a watercourses. [76274] gap if any energy companies complete their CERT Richard Benyon: All discharges to the river network, requirements before the start of Green Deal and ECO. including discharges from sewage treatment works and We will consult on allowing obligated companies, to associated sewer systems, are controlled by the Environment score any over-delivery, of qualifying measures during Agency’s environmental permitting activities. In conjunction the CERT period as early delivery under the ECO with the Environment Agency’s monitoring programme scheme. this ensures that river water quality is protected. Combined Carbon Emissions: Public Sector sewer overflows (CSOs) allow the controlled discharge of dilute sewage mixed with rainwater when combined Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for sewer systems become overwhelmed during periods of Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made heavy rainfall. Such discharges are necessary to avoid of carbon emissions from public sector buildings which sewage backing up and spilling on to roads or overflowing are not part of the central government estate in the into people’s homes. Since privatisation some 7000 CSOs latest period for which figures are available. [81632] have been removed or improved with further investment planned at close to 800 more within the period 2010-15.The Gregory Barker: The most up to date estimate the construction of new CSOs is only agreed by the Department has of carbon emissions from public buildings Environment Agency in exceptional circumstances. To in England is contained in a report prepared by Cameo completely eliminate the discharges from CSOs would Advisory Services Ltd for DECC in July 2011. A link to be prohibitively expensive and offer little or no this report is: environmental benefit. http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/tackling-climate- change/saving-energy-co2/2261-camco-report-public-sector- Sustainable Growing Media Task Force emissions.pdf Climate Change: International Cooperation Fiona O’Donnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on what dates Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for the Sustainable Growing Media Task Force has met. Energy and Climate Change whether he has taken steps [81459] to seek to ensure that agreements are signed by all participating countries at the COP 17 meeting in Richard Benyon: The first meeting took place on Durban in December to (a) assist the world’s most 10 October this year, at which the chairman presented vulnerable communities adapt to climate change which his approach to the taskforce, and taskforce members is unavoidable and (b) introduce a binding were able to shape the programme of work going forward. international agreement to reduce greenhouse gas 313W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 314W emissions in line with what is required to ensure that proposed solutions. For communication services this any average global temperature increase remains well will include assessing the proposed coverage of different below two degrees Celsius; and if he will make a technologies across Great Britain. statement. [82073] The procurement will assess the level of technical risk presented by different solutions and will require bidders Gregory Barker: The Government are committed to to prove that their proposals are technically sound. This achieving an ambitious global deal to cut emissions may include evidence from studies and physical trials. consistent with limiting global temperature increases to Once the suppliers are on contract they will then be below two degrees Celsius, and to helping countries required to implement their solutions and conduct tests adapt to the inevitable impacts of climate change. The across all smart metering systems and industry to ensure UK has been working closely with a broad range of that the end-to-end system is operationally robust before partners to seek to ensure that progress is made at COP it is rolled out on a large scale. 17 in Durban towards a new legally binding agreement covering all parties. The Government are also working Fuel Poverty: Suffolk to agree at Durban further progress on implementing what we achieved at Cancun last year, including on the Mr Yeo: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and delivery of finance to developing countries for mitigation Climate Change what proportion of households were and adaptation. living in fuel poverty in (a) Babergh District and (b) Electricity Suffolk in (i) 1981, (ii) 1983, (iii) 1997 and (iv) 2010. [81472]

Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Gregory Barker: Sub-regional data are available only Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has for 2006 and 2008 and are shown in the following table. made of the effect on businesses of the proposals Figures show the proportion of all households in that contained in his Department’s White Paper, entitled area that were fuel poor. Planning our electric future: a White Paper for secure, affordable and low-carbon electricity, published in July Percentage 2011. [81945] Babergh local authority Suffolk Charles Hendry: The impact assessment (IA) 2006 13 13 accompanying the Electricity Market Reform (EMR) 2008 16 15 White Paper provides an assessment of the effects of Data are also available for 2003 from: the EMR proposals on businesses. As noted in section 5 of the IA, for the Governments preferred policy package www.fuelpovertyindicator.org.uk of feed-in tariffs with contracts for difference the benefits but this has not been produced on a consistent basis to business could range between £0.4 billion to £0.6 billion with that for 2006 and 2008. per year depending on the final choices made on a Data for 2009 will be published on 24 November at: capacity mechanism. In terms of the impact on energy http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/ bills, over the period of assessment (2010 to 2030), fuelpov_stats/regional/regional.aspx medium sized businesses could see a fall in energy bills of between 1% to 2% and large energy intensive businesses Green Deal Scheme could see falls of between 2% to 3% relative to the case without the EMR policies. Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for The EMR White Paper IA can be found at the Energy and Climate Change when he plans to publish following weblink: his Department’s consultation on the Green Deal. http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/policy-legislation/ [79896] EMR/2180-emr-impact-assessment.pdf In addition, the Government intend to shortly announce Gregory Barker [holding answer 10 November 2011]: a package of measures to reduce the impact of government We expect to commence consultation on secondary policy on electricity costs for energy intensive manufacturers legislation shortly. whose international competitiveness is most affected by our energy and climate change policies, and to support Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for them in becoming more energy and carbon efficient Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made where it would be cost effective for them to do so. of the likely cost to energy companies of implementing systems to collect and distribute Green Deal payments. Energy: Meters [81569]

Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Gregory Barker: We have made an estimate of £7.9 to and Climate Change whether he plans to include in the £22.5 million, with a central estimate of £15.1 million, procurement process for smart meters trials to ensure for the one-off cost to domestic electricity suppliers of the (a) fitness for purpose, (b) coverage and (c) value implementing systems to collect and distribute Green for money of the candidate technologies; and if he will Deal payments. These figures were derived from cost make a statement. [81630] estimates supplied by energy companies. We have not made an estimate for non-domestic Charles Hendry: The purpose of the procurement electricity suppliers as these are more likely to process processes for the data and communication services is to Green Deal payments on a bespoke basis rather than evaluate the technical capability and value for money of using fully automated billing systems. 315W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 316W

Heating (a) the date on which the installation is commissioned; or (b) the date on which a valid application for FITs Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy has been received by either Ofgem (in the case of solar and Climate Change what assessment he has made of photovoltaic (PV) installations with a declared net capacity the effectiveness of infra-red heating in reducing fuel of over 50kW) or a FIT licensee (in the case of solar PV poverty. [81714] installations with a declared net capacity of up to 50kW). Gregory Barker: We have made no assessment of the Information from the Ofgem Central FITs Register effectiveness of infrared heating in reducing fuel poverty. shows that the average time between the commissioning Renewable Energy of an installation and its eligibility date is 16.78 days. This is based on information for all installations registered Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for for FITs with a commissioning date after 1 April 2010 Energy and Climate Change which renewable energy and does not include extensions to accredited FIT technology can be deployed fastest. [82238] installations. Gregory Barker: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth Energy and Climate Change what assessment his (Christopher Pincher) on 21 November 2011, Official Department has made of the effect on the level of Report, column 40W. enterprise deaths in (a) the renewable sector and (b) the construction sector of changes to the timetable for Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs applications for feed-in tariffs. [81450]

Kate Hoey: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Gregory Barker: The Department does not hold relevant and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the information on which to base any estimate of companies cost of delaying proposed cuts for feed-in tariffs until that will be forced to cease trading in the UK solar April 2012. [80320] industry. The impact assessment accompanying the Government’s consultation on feed-in tariffs (FITs) for Gregory Barker: I refer the hon. Member to the solar photovoltaics (PV), available at: answer I gave the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert), on 14 November 2011, Official Report, http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/consultation/fits-comp- column 594W. review-p1/3416-fits-IA-solar-pv-draft.pdf estimates that new solar PV installations will continue Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for to come forward under the proposed changes to FITs Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has for solar PV. The impact assessment does not estimate made of the effect on small and medium-sized the specific impact of the proposed changes on the UK businesses arising from his planned changes to the solar industry as a whole. feed-in tariff scheme. [80379] Solar Power Gregory Barker: The impact assessment supporting the consultation on FITs for solar PV Stephen Gilbert: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/consultation/fits-comp- Energy and Climate Change how many representations review-p1/3416-fits-ia-solar-pv-draft.pdf he has received opposing the development of solar does not estimate the specific impact on small and photovoltaic sites. [80813] medium-sized businesses but it does set out the impact on the general level of employment as a result of the Gregory Barker [holding answer 14 November 2011]; change to the feed in tariffs. DECC receives a significant number of telephone inquiries, It estimates that 1,000 to 10,000 gross full-time employee responses to consultation exercises and other pieces of jobs could be supported in this sector in the three years correspondence. These will have included representations to 2014-15 under the proposals. This estimate relates to expressing concern or opposition to renewable energy solar PV installations only and does not account for developments, including solar photovoltaics. However, jobs created as a result of the proposed energy efficiency we do not collect data on this and could do so only at requirement. disproportionate cost. Local planning authorities may also have received representations on planning applications Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for for individual developments, but we do not hold the Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of details of these. 8 November 2011, Official Report, column 268W, on solar power: feed-in tariffs, at which stage of the Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for feed-in tariffs (FITs) application process an installation Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made becomes eligible for FITs payments; and whether his of the reductions in the cost of (a) solar photovoltaic Department has made an assessment of the average panel manufacturing and (b) solar photovoltaic panel time between the installation of a project and the point installation since May 2010. [82247] at which it becomes eligible for FITs payments. [81064] Gregory Barker: The impact assessment supporting Gregory Barker [holding answer 15 November 2011]: the Government’s consultation on feed-in tariffs for An installation becomes eligible for feed-in tariffs (FITs) solar photovoltaics (PV) sets out estimates of PV installation from its eligibility date. The term “eligibility date” is costs for different sizes of installations. These estimates defined in Condition 33 of the Standard Conditions of reflect both the costs of solar panels and costs of the Electricity Supply Licences, and is the latter of either installation process. They are based on a report from 317W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 318W

Cambridge Economic Policy Associates and Parsons sets out the impact on the level of support and generation Brinckerhoff which was published alongside the impact as a result of the change to the feed-in tariffs. It estimates assessment and is available at: that 1,000-10,000 gross FTE could be supported in this http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/consultation/fits-comp- sector in the three years to 2014-15 under the proposals. review-p1/3365-updates-to-fits-model-doc.pdf This estimate relates to solar PV installations only and Overall, evidence shows that there has been at least a does not account for jobs created as a result of the 30% fall in PV costs between April 2010 and summer proposed energy efficiency requirement. 2011, and the latest indications are that the prices have continued to fall. Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has Solar Power: Brighton made of the effect of reducing solar photovoltaic feed-in tariffs by (a) 10, (b) 20, (c) 30 and (d) 40 per Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for cent.; and if he will make a statement. [81499] Energy and Climate Change if he will meet representatives of Brighton Energy Co-operative to Gregory Barker: We have not made an assessment of discuss the continuance of projects to install and the impact of reducing solar photovoltaic (PV) tariffs operate four solar photovoltaic arrays in the Brighton by set proportions. The proposed solar PV tariffs set and Hove area, which were planned on the basis of the out in the consultation on feed-in tariffs for solar PV current feed-in tariff rates. [79263] target a rate of return on capital of approximately 4.5-5% for well-sited installations, in line with intentions Gregory Barker: My officials are working closely at the outset of the FITs scheme. with communities to understand the impacts of the consultation on feed-in tariffs for solar PV, and would Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for be happy to meet. Brighton Energy Co-operative. Energy and Climate Change with reference to the I am also seeking to establish a small community consultation on Comprehensive Review Phase contact group to ensure communities have a direct 1—Tariffs for Solar Photovoltaic, 31 October 2011, input into DECC policies as appropriate going forward. paragraph 49, what estimate his Department has made of the number of (a) members of the public and (b) Solar Power: Feed-in Tariffs organisations committed to the installation of solar photovoltaic who will not be able to meet the Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for 12 December eligibility date. [82213] Energy and Climate Change for what reasons he was not present for the Urgent Question on Feed-in Tariffs Gregory Barker: It is difficult to ascertain with any on 31 October 2011. [80622] degree of certainty the number of individuals or organisations that have committed to installing solar Gregory Barker [holding answer 15 November 2011]: photovoltaic (PV) who would not be able to meet the As I made clear in the House on 31 October 2011, reference date of before 12 December 2011 to continue Official Report, column 617, Ministers in the Department to receive the current tariffs, pending the outcome of of Energy and Climate Change operate as a team. I the consultation. have been leading on this issue, and the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, the right hon. Our present estimate is that by 12 December 2011, a Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne), is very happy for total of approximately 130,000 solar PV installations me to do so. will be eligible for feed-in tariffs (FITs). This estimate is however uncertain and depends on the actual rate of Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for growth between now and 12 December. Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the effects on the number of small and medium- Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for sized enterprises of his planned changes to the feed-in Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has tariff scheme for solar photovoltaic installations. made of the effect on levels of applications of closing [80623] applications for the solar photovoltaic panels scheme before the outcome of the consultation. [82240] Gregory Barker [holding answer 15 November 2011]: I refer the hon. Member to the answer given to question Gregory Barker: We have not proposed to close the 80379 to the hon. Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker). scheme. We are consulting on a reference date of 12 December 2011 for installations with an eligibility Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for date on or after the reference date to receive the new Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has lower tariff, pending the outcome of the consultation in made of the effect (a) on employment rates and (b) on April 2012. As the consultation explains, we expect that investment in the solar photovoltaic (PV) sector of his those who make the decision to go ahead with their Department’s proposed reductions in solar PV tariffs; installation will still receive a rate of return of 4.5-5% and if he will make a statement. [81498] on their investment. Gregory Barker: The impact assessment supporting In the impact assessment published alongside the the consultation on FITs for solar PV: consultation document: http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/consultation/fits-comp- www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/consultations/ review-p1/3416-fits-IA-solar-pv-draft.pdf fits_comp_rev1/fits_comp_rev1.aspx 319W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 320W we assume that pre-12 December take-up would be 20% options for registering to vote and how they can vote. higher than normal. However, this estimate is uncertain Extensive information campaigns are held to encourage and depends on actual growth between now and service personnel and their families to register to vote. 12 December. Electors who are registered on the basis of service declarations before the move to IER will remain on the Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for register and will not need to register again under IER Energy and Climate Change what budget his until their service declaration expires. This will maximise Department has allocated for exemptions to the the numbers registered. Postal and proxy voting will proposed implementation date for reduced solar also remain available to those service voters. photovoltaic feed-in tariffs. [82248] In terms of ensuring members of the armed forces Gregory Barker: There are no specific budget allocations are registered for proxy and postal voting, the Government for any exemptions. The Government are currently have already announced plans to extend ‘emergency’ consulting on proposals to reduce the feed-in tariffs proxy voting (the ability to submit a last-minute proxy (FITs) for solar photovoltaic (PV) installations. The application between the sixth day before a poll and proposals are for new tariffs to come in force on 1 April polling day) to those who are deployed at short notice 2012, and that, apart from the proposed multi-installation before an election. tariff, they should apply from that date to all new PV In addition, we have published draft legislative provisions installations which become eligible for FITs on or after to extend the electoral timetable for UK parliamentary 12 December 2011. elections from 17 to 25 working days, and will make a The consultation seeks views on the tariffs and on the corresponding change for the by-elections timetable, to proposed approach to implementing them, and closes take effect in time for the next scheduled general election on 23 December 2011. All representations made will be in 2015. These provisions will have particular benefits considered before the policy is finalised. for service personnel stationed outside the UK as it will allow more time for the dispatch and return of postal Warm Front Scheme votes to overseas locations.

Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Electoral Register Energy and Climate Change how many people have been employed to deliver the Warm Front policy in each of the last five years. [81568] Mr David: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what consultation meetings Ministers have had to discuss the Gregory Barker: Over the last five years DECC has Government’s White Paper on Individual Electoral maintained a core workforce of three-five policy officials Registration. [81868] working on Warm Front. During this period, Carillion Energy Services (formerly Mr Harper: Ministers from the Cabinet Office have Eaga) has maintained a core workforce of approximately met with the following organisations to discuss the 350 staff consistently employed on Warm Front service Individual Electoral Registration White Paper. These provision. In addition, a number of support functions are: across Carillion Energy Services business such as IT, Electoral Commission procurement and HR management would have employed Electoral Reform Society 200-300 staff at any one time. Liberty A number of key services to the Warm Front scheme NO2ID including installation services are provided by sub- contractors. An estimated average of between 2,500 to Big Brother Watch 3,000 personnel have been employed over the last five Experian years to deliver these scheme service. Kevan Collins, chief executive, London borough of Tower Hamlets Association of Electoral Administrators. DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Armed Forces: Electoral Register BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what steps he is taking to ensure that Apprentices: Bedfordshire members of the armed forces are (a) registered to vote and (b) registered for proxy and postal voting when deployed overseas under his plans for individual voter Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for registration. [81988] Business, Innovation and Skills how many apprenticeships were delivered in South West Mr Harper: The Government are committed to Bedfordshire constituency in (a) 2010-11 and (b) maximising the number of members of the armed forces 2009-10 academic years. [81494] who are registered to vote ahead of the transition to individual electoral registration (IER). Mr Hayes: Table 1 shows the number of Apprenticeship The Ministry of Defence is working closely with the Programme Starts in South West Bedfordshire Electoral Commission and the Cabinet Office to help parliamentary constituency, in 2009/10 (final data) and service personnel and their families understand their 2010/11 (provisional data). 321W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 322W

Table 1: Apprenticeship starts in South West Bedfordshire constituency, 2009/10 Mr Davey: Ministers’ and the Permanent Secretary’s (final data) and 2010/11 (provisional data) meetings with external organisations are published every South West Bedfordshire Number quarter on the Department’s website which can be 2009/10 (final) 440 accessed at: 2010/11 (provisional) 670 http://www.bis.gov.uk/transparency/staff Notes: 1. All figures are rounded to the nearest 10. The remaining information requested could be obtained 2. Geography information is based upon the home postcode of the learner. only at disproportionate expense. 3. Provisional estimates for 2010/11 can not be compared with final figures for earlier years. Source: Business Individualised Learner Record Information on the number of apprenticeship starts is published in a quarterly statistical first release (SFR). Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for The latest SFR was published on 27 October 2011: Business, Innovation and Skills what programmes his Department has that support entrepreneurship; what http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/ the objectives are of each programme; and what the statisticalfirstrelease/sfr_current planned annual expenditure is of each programme Bell Pottinger Group during the comprehensive spending review period. [82015] John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills whether (a) Ministers, Mr Prisk: The Department has a range of activity (b) officials and (c) political advisers in his which supports entrepreneurship, the budgets for which Department have met representatives of (i) Bell are set annually to allow the flexibility to respond to Pottinger Group or (ii) each of its subsidiaries in the priorities across the BIS agenda. The forecast expenditure last five years; on what dates any such meetings took for our main enterprise-related activity in 2011-12 is as place; and what was discussed. [80067] follows:

£

SME finance including:

(1) Venture Capital Investment—Enterprise Capital Funds (ECFs) are the Department’s principal instrument for providing private sector 1,266,000,000 investors with access to Government co-funding for investment in small businesses. The spending review made a £200 million commitment to support ECFs. (2) Enterprise Finance Guarantee (EFG)—created to facilitate additional bank lending to viable small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) 2— that lack the security or proven track record with which to secure a normal commercial loan. In 2011-12, the Department has provided banks with scope to provide £600 million of guaranteed lending. The EFG will continue until 2014-15, guaranteeing, subject to demand, up to £2 billion in additional lending.

Business improvement including:

(1) Business Coaching for Growth—providing high growth potential SMEs with the advice and support that will enable them to realise that 10,100,000 potential. (2) Business Link Helpline—a telephone service to help businesses who cannot find the information they need on the web, or who are not 2— connected to the internet, to get access to the information they need to start and grow their businesses. (3) Mentoring—BIS is working with the private sector to develop a network of at least 40,000 experienced business mentors. This includes 2— working with the British Bankers Association (BBA) to develop and expand the new mentoring portal, Mentorsme.co.uk, which now provides access to around 11,000 mentors. The Department has also provided a grant to Small Firms Enterprise Development Initiative (SFEDI) for the recruitment and training of 10,000 volunteer business mentors from business representative bodies.

Projects to help promote a more entrepreneurial culture including:

(1) Grant given to the National Association of College and University Entrepreneurs to build a sustainable national infrastructure to develop 2,300,000 and drive forward student enterprise societies across higher and further education institutions, expanding enterprise societies into over 90 English universities and at least 160 further education colleges by 2015. (2) Supporting work to assist schools both with online resources to help develop school businesses and in accessing local enterprise champions 2— and role models. (3) Grant given to Premier League Charitable Fund to develop a sustainable Premier League Enterprise Academy model, enabling Premier 2— League football clubs to foster enterprise among young people and principally in deprived areas. (4) Web Exploitation—piloting a series of workshops to enhance the skills of SMEs in making greater use of the internet and associated 2— technologies to boost productivity and growth. (5) National Centre for Entrepreneurship in Education—to build a sustainable infrastructure to enable higher and further education 2— institutions to better support entrepreneurship.

Queens Awards for Enterprise

The Queen’s Awards for Enterprise reward individuals who have played a significant and outstanding role in promoting a more enterprising 500,000 culture. The awards celebrate a wide range of achievement, from exemplifying effective novel business methods to outstanding leadership in promoting the acquisition of key enterprise skills.

Total 78,900,000 1 Capital 2 Indicates brace 323W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 324W

Business: Loans Debts: Advisory Services

Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how much small and Business, Innovation and Skills (1) how many on-site medium-sized enterprises in (a) Liverpool, Walton compliance visits have been carried out by the Office of constituency, (b) Merseyside and (c) England received Fair Trading in relation to compliance with its Debt under the Project Merlin Agreement to date. [81553] Management Guidance since September 2010; [80394] (2) how many of the debt management firms Mr Prisk: As part of the Project Merlin Agreement cautioned by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) in to make available £190 billion of new credit to businesses September 2010 are still operating and not complying in 2011, including £76 billion of lending to small and with the OFT’s Debt Management Guidance; [80395] medium-sized businesses, the banks agreed to make (3) how many of the firms found in September 2010 gross lending data available to the Bank of England for to be failing to comply with debt management publication in aggregate on a quarterly basis. guidance issued by the Office of Fair Trading are still in As published by the Bank of England on 14 November possession of their consumer credit licences. [80396] 2011, the five ‘Project Merlin’ banks, Barclays, HSBC, LBG, RBS and Santander have extended £56.1 billion Mr Davey: The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has worth of lending to small and medium sized enterprises undertaken 48 onsite visits since September 2010, mostly (SMEs) across the UK up to the end of Q3 in 2011. to those applying for new consumer credit licences to cover debt management activities. The OFT is scrutinising The Bank of England does not publish figures under these with particular care in light of the non-compliance the Merlin agreement broken down by region or nation. identified in its compliance review. Of the 129 businesses warned in the compliance Business: Northern Ireland review, 53 businesses have exited the market and no longer hold a consumer credit license. The OFT has Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for been or will be in contact with the remaining 76 businesses Business, Innovation and Skills how many businesses in to discuss their compliance with the OFT’s Debt Northern Ireland are classified as (a) large, (b) Management Guidance and if necessary will take medium-sized and (c) small. [81999] enforcement action. In addition, following OFT intervention, 69 businesses Mr Prisk: Estimates of the number of large, medium have exited the debt management market since September and small-sized businesses in Northern Ireland at the 2010. This larger figure results from enforcement action start of 2011 are shown in the following table: following the warnings issued to 129 debt management firms combined with ongoing action outside of the Business size band review. Number of Number of Number of medium- large Departmental Consultants small sized businesses businesses businesses (250 or All private (0 to 49 (50 to 249 more sector Mrs Glindon: To ask the Secretary of State for employees) employees) employees) businesses Business, Innovation and Skills which external Number of 121,075 855 135 122,065 consultants are advising his Department on the Red private Tape Challenge; and what the (a) length of each such sector arrangement and (b) cost to the public purse is in each businesses in Northern case. [80409] Ireland Source: Mr Prisk [holding answer 14 November 2011]: I refer Business Population Estimates for the UK and Regions (2011 Edition), the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 10 November Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. 2011, Official Report, column 460W. Business: Regulation Departmental Recruitment

Mrs Glindon: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many (a) full-time Business, Innovation and Skills for how many posts his and (b) temporary staff in his Department are Department has used (a) Gatenby Sanderson or (b) working on the Red Tape Challenge; and what estimate Odgers for recruitment purposes in the last three years; he has made of the required staffing level in (i) 2012-13, and if he will make a statement. [81704] (ii) 2013-14 and (iii) 2014-15. [79742] Mr Davey: The Department for Business, Innovation Mr Prisk [holding answer 10 November 2011]: The and Skills (BIS) was created in June 2009 following the Red Tape Challenge is led by a joint Cabinet Office-BIS merger of the Department for Innovation, Universities team, which includes five full-time BIS officials. In and Skills and the Department for Business, Enterprise addition, the Departments (including BIS) that are and Regulatory Reform. responsible for the regulations involved in a ’theme’ Since that date BIS has completed eight separate manage and resource their own process. No budget has recruitment exercises using executive search companies yet been assigned to the programme beyond the end of procured from the Cabinet Office call off contract. For this financial year. each recruitment exercise all executive search companies 325W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 326W on Lot 1 of the Cabinet Office call off contract were Green Construction Board invited to tender and the successful company was selected following a sift of those who responded. The decision Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for on which company to appoint would be based on a Business, Innovation and Skills on what dates the combination of their grasp of the brief, knowledge of Green Construction Board has met; who attended each the sector, timetable, and cost. meeting; and if he will place in the Library a copy of Since June 2009 Gatenby Sanderson have been employed the agenda for each meeting. [79898] by BIS once and Odgers Berndtson have been employed twice. Mr Prisk [holding answer 10 November 2011]: The Department released a press notice (pn363) following EU Grants and Loans the first meeting of the Green Construction Board on 24 October. This set out the full membership of the Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for board. The agenda for first meeting was characterised Business, Innovation and Skills if he will make by process issues such as working group coverage and representations to the European Commission to governance. When working groups have been finalised prevent (a) constraints on beneficial investments, by the board they will be published on the BIS website. including economic infrastructure and (b) other constraints being placed on the spending of regional Higher Education: Foreign Students development funding provided by the EU. [81110] Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Davey: The Structural Funds Regulations for Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has 2007-13, Member States’ National Strategic Reference made of the number of higher education places which Framework and Operational Programmes set out the are filled by foreign students. [81854] framework for eligible investment. Within this framework, the Government believe that member states should have Mr Willetts: In the 2009/10 academic year, there were the flexibility to identify their own challenges, set their 2,493,415 postgraduate and undergraduate enrolments own objectives and align the structural funds with their to full-time and part-time courses at UK higher education own policies and programmes in a tailor-made way. In institutions. Of these enrolments 125,045 (5%) were the current programme the Government are currently European Union (EU—excluding the UK) domiciles seeking views of the European Commission on the and 280,760 (11%) were non-EU overseas domiciles. maximum flexibility that the current European Regional (Domicile refers to the country of a student’s permanent Development Fund regulations will allow to support or home address prior to entry to their course). This is broadband deployment. the latest available information from the Higher Education The Government are currently considering the detail Statistics Agency (HESA). Figures for the 2010/11 academic of the Commission’s draft regulations for 2014-20 and year will become available from January 2012. Further its implications for the UK so cannot yet comment in information on student domicile is available at this link respect of proposals for future programmes. to the HESA website: Export Credit Guarantees: Arms Trade http://www.hesa.ac.uk/index.php?option=com_ content&task=view&id=1943<emid=161 Non-EU students are recruited on top of, or in Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for addition to, the places offered to EU and UK students. Business, Innovation and Skills if he will make a Non-EU students compete amongst themselves for these statement on the availability of export credit places and there is no cap on the fees that they can be guarantees for the defence manufacturing industry; charged, which are generally set at a level to cover the and how many companies benefited from such support full cost of teaching. in each of the last three years. [81526] Nuclear Power: Job Creation Mr Davey: Export Credit Guarantee Department (ECGD) support is available for defence exports. The number of exporters that have obtained support Malcolm Wicks: To ask the Secretary of State for from ECGD for defence exports in each of the last Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions he has three full financial years was as follows: had on the potential for creating manufacturing jobs through the building of new nuclear power stations and Number the associated socio-economic benefits of any job creation. [81371] 2008-09 1 2009-10 2 Mr Prisk: Ministers and officials in this Department 2010-11 2 and the Department for Energy and Climate Change have regular conversations with the energy and nuclear Government Departments: Public Consultation industry to ensure the delivery of nuclear new-build can happen to time and that opportunities are realised. Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Central to this is the Nuclear Development Forum. Business, Innovation and Skills if he will review the New nuclear build in the UK has the potential to guidance for Government consultations. [80113] afford considerable opportunities for manufacturing firms for both the domestic and global market. The Mr Davey: There are no plans to review the Government’s Government support manufacturers, where appropriate, “Code of Practice on Consultation” at this time. to enable them to realise these opportunities; central to 327W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 328W this support are the Nuclear Advanced Manufacturing Overseas Trade: Russia Research Centre, the Manufacturing Advisory Service, and the work Her Majesty’s Government (HMG) are Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for undertaking with the Nuclear Industry Association. Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has It is also important that manufacturers have the right made of the effect on the ability of UK businesses to skills available in order to grow and the Department for trade with Russia of levels of corruption in that Business, Innovation and Skills is providing match funding country. [82131] for the extension of the National Skills Academy for Nuclear to ensure that manufacturing skills are properly Mr Prisk: Russia remains an attractive target for accommodated. exporters and investors but one that requires research The Government have recently provided some funding and commitment. It is an important and complicated through the Regional Growth Fund to three manufacturers market with favourable cross-sector opportunities, some to help them realise potential opportunities. unique in scale. UK exports to Russia rose by 48% in the first eight months of 2011 to £2.9 billion. The Malcolm Wicks: To ask the Secretary of State for Russian Government’s economic modernisation and Business, Innovation and Skills what consideration he infrastructure development agenda, underpinned by the has given to the nuclear power industry and associated appetite of 140 million consumers for quality services manufacturing and construction as part of the Growth and goods produces a need for international expertise Review; and if he will make a statement. [81373] and products. HM Government recognise that there is an issue with Mr Prisk: Infrastructure development—including the corruption and that it damages Russia’s economic UK’s energy system—has a key role to play in driving development. Assistance and advice is available to help growth and is being looked at within the current phase companies to understand the issues. Advice can be of Growth Review work. The Government’s vision is to found on the business anti corruption service website of deliver a secure, low carbon and affordable energy system. the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills: Nuclear power has a part to play in fulfilling this vision http://www.business-anti-corruption.com/country-profiles/ as set out in the Government’s National Policy Statements europe-central-asia/russia/ and is being further considered as part of the Growth UKTI also provides support through the overseas Review work on energy infrastructure, led by Infrastructure business risk service: UK. Announcements on infrastructure will be made as http://www.ukti.gov.uk/export/countries/europe/ part of the overall package of Growth Review easterneurope/russia/overseasbusinessrisk.html announcements on 29 November 2011. Overseas Trade: Environment Protection Post Offices: ICT

Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what measures his Business, Innovation and Skills if he will take steps to Department is taking to ensure that UK Trade and ensure that local post offices are enabled to install Investment and the Export Credits Guarantee scanning equipment so that printed ID photographs Department support UK companies that develop and can be supplied and scanned as a digital image for export green technologies around the world. [81330] driving licences and passports. [81835]

Mr Prisk: In May 2011, the Government published Mr Davey: Decisions on the range of specialised “Britain Open for Business” which set out the UK equipment and the services to be made available at Trade and Investment’s (UKTI) five-year strategy. This individual post office branches are an operational matter included a green export campaign, creation of an export for the Post Office, taking account of the service provision pipeline of innovative green technologies and services requirements of their clients. I have therefore asked and close working with the Foreign and Commonwealth Paula Vennells, the managing director of Post Office Office’s (FCO) overseas network to promote green growth. Ltd, to respond directly to the hon. Member and a copy The green export campaign positions the UK as a of her reply will be placed in the Libraries of the House. leading provider of low carbon solutions in markets where there are strong, clear commercial opportunities. Post Offices: Photography The campaign promotes the UK’s low carbon capabilities to international buyers and investors. This includes Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for activities for businesses, such as trade missions, trade Business, Innovation and Skills if he will assess the shows and exhibitions both overseas and in the UK. effect on the revenue levels of private sector high street UKTI and the FCO work together using their respective photographers of establishing digital photographic overseas networks to promote green growth. This includes facilities in selected post offices; and if he will make a identifying new opportunities for UK businesses stemming statement. [81362] from international agreements and overseas Government’s policies in carbon reduction. Mr Davey: It is not feasible to undertake a study such The Export Credits Guarantee Department is working as that proposed. There are many operators providing closely with UKTI in actively reaching out to exporters photographic facilities on high streets across Britain of green technologies so that they are aware of the who provide their services for a range of costs, a variety products available to provide them with credit protection of different purposes and through a number of business and facilitate the provision of finance. models. 329W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 330W

The recently introduced technology in 752 post offices Mr Davey: We have received several representations offers customers the choice to digitally capture and on the risks posed by sky lanterns, namely, from the transmit their image (and other data changes) as part of Women’s Farming and Food Union (WFU), the National the application process for the 10-year driving licence. Farmers Union (NFU) and members of the public. When renewal for photographic licences commenced in Their main concerns are of fire damage to property and 2008, the size of the photographic market increased by farm machinery, littering and harm to livestock. These 2.5 million units a year. Customers are able to choose are mainly issues for the Department for Environment, whether to submit their photographic application online, Food and Rural Affairs. at a post office, or via a paper application with an We believe that current consumer safety legislation, attached ‘wet’ photograph, which requires subsequent namely the General Product Safety Regulations 2005 scanning at the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency are sufficient to remove any sky lanterns that may pose (DVLA) on receipt. Customers continue to have the a risk to consumers including those which are of inferior option of choosing how they apply for a 10-year driving quality, are poorly labelled or contain insufficient safety licence, with their choice driven by personal preference, instructions. cost, and convenience. Supermarkets: Ombudsman Sir Andrew Cahn Neil Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills when he plans to bring Business, Innovation and Skills on how many forward legislative proposals to establish a groceries occasions Sir Andrew Cahn met (a) Huawei and (b) code adjudicator. [82019] other Chinese companies when he was Chief Executive of UK Trade and Investment; and if he will make a Mr Davey: The draft Groceries Code Adjudicator statement. [81603] Bill has undergone pre-legislative scrutiny, and Parliament Mr Davey: The information is as follows: published the Government’s response to the BIS Select Committee report on 15 October 2011. We now aim to (a) In his role as chief executive officer (CEO) of UK introduce a Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill as soon as Trade and Investment (UKTI), from our records, Sir parliamentary time allows. Andrew Cahn did not meet Huawei on a bilateral basis. (b) In the normal course of his work, Sir Andrew Trade Unions: Finance Cahn could be expected to attend or host a number of events at which Chinese companies would be present. Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for To analyse all of UKTI’s records, over his five year Business, Innovation and Skills if he will consider tenure as CEO of UKTI, would involve reviewing some introducing (a) legislation and (b) guidance to require 850,000 interactions, to identify every Chinese company trade unions to include on trade union membership and whether Sir Andrew was present. This could be forms (i) details of individual membership monies provided only at disproportionate cost. being directed into political funds and (ii) an opt-in or opt-out option in relation to payments being made to Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for political funds. [82137] Business, Innovation and Skills on what (a) dates and (b) occasions (i) he, (ii) Lord Green of Hurstpierpoint Mr Davey: I have no current plans to introduce and (iii) other Ministers in his Department in their further legislation or guidance to trade unions on their official capacity have (A) met with, (B) spoken to and management of political funds. The Trade Union and (C) corresponded with Sir Andrew Cahn since he Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 allows ceased to hold the position of chief executive of UK individuals to opt out of contributing to the union Trade and Investment; what issues were discussed on political fund at any stage. Advice is available about this each such occasion; and if he will make a statement. on the direct gov website and use of political funds is [81605] regulated and reported on publicly by the certification officer. Mr Davey: The Minister of State for Business and Enterprise, the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford Training: Internet (Mr Prisk), met Sir Andrew on 4 April 2011 and the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Skills, Baroness Wilcox, met him on 25 January 2011. Business, Innovation and Skills when he expects to The Minister of State for Trade and Investment, Lord achieve his target for the number of mentors available Green of Hurtspierpoint, met Sir Andrew frequently at to businesses using the Mentors Me programme. events they both attended and spoke to him on the telephone on 26 January 2011. There is no record of the [81008] discussions and there has been no correspondence between Ministers and Sir Andrew. Mr Prisk: Mentorsme.co.uk now provides access to over 60 mentoring organisations and around 11,000 Sky Lanterns mentors and this number continues to grow. Our aim is to develop a network of over 40,000 business mentors Neil Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for but it is equally important that we ensure that the Business, Innovation and Skills what recent quality of mentoring provision is high. representations he has received on the risks posed by Just last week, I announced new grant funding of sky lanterns; and whether he has any plans to regulate £1.2 million to recruit and train 10,000 volunteer business their use. [82018] mentors via the Small Firms Enterprise Development 331W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 332W

Initiative (SFEDI) in the new “Get Mentoring” initiative. CABINET OFFICE This is on top of the 5,000 mentors already announced Big Society Capital: Grants by the Secretary of State for the Home Department, my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), as part of the package of support for female entrepreneurs Steve Rotheram: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet on 4 November. The launch of this initiative marks Office if he will estimate the sums from dormant bank another important step towards growing the number of accounts to be distributed in (a) Liverpool, Walton mentors and will bring the total number of business constituency, (b) Merseyside and (c) England by Big mentors available through the mentorsme to at least Society Capital. [81552] 26,000 by the end of September 2012. Mr Hurd: Big Society Capital is an independent We are working with SFEDI, trade and business company and will make its own investment decisions representative bodies, a number of mentoring organisations, based on the extent to which potential investments the British Bankers Association (BBA) and private business support its social objects, and meet its investment criteria. to encourage more experienced business people to become volunteer mentors. In making its investments, we expect Big Society Capital to give due regard to geographical spread, and We must be careful not to compromise on the quality to the fact that capital received through the dormant of the mentors available simply in order to achieve this accounts scheme will be from the English portion. It target more quickly. I am not going to set arbitrary would not, however, be appropriate or effective for Big targets and timescales. I do not believe that setting Society Capital to allocate specific sums of money for specific timescales is necessarily the right or most effective investment on the basis of geography over quality and way of achieving our objectives. This should be demand— social impact. led, not controlled by Government. Business: Middlesbrough

Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Business, Innovation and Skills how many mentors Office if he will estimate the number of businesses that were signed up to the Mentors Me programme on the have (a) opened and (b) closed in Middlesbrough latest date for which figures are available. [81009] South and East Cleveland constituency since May 2010. [81986] Mr Prisk: Mentorsme now provides access to over 60 mentoring organisations and around 11,000 mentors Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the and this number will continue to grow, including the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have addition of 15,000 small and medium-sized enterprises asked the authority to reply. mentors for whom I announced funding for training Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated November 2011: last week. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I I hope that I can rely on the hon. Member to help us have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking for the estimate of the number of businesses that have (a) opened in promoting the benefits of mentoring within his own and (b) closed in Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland constituency and encouraging more volunteer business constituency since May 2010. [81986] mentors to come forward. Annual statistics on the number of enterprise births and deaths are available from the ONS release on Business Demography at: www.statistics.gov.uk Unfair Dismissal: Employment Tribunals Service However, the latest statistics relate to the calendar year 2009; the results for 2010 will be released on 6th December 2011. Ian Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for Disadvantaged Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has made of the likely effect on the number of employment Michael Dugher: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet tribunal applications of the change of the length of the Office (1) whether his Department has issued guidance qualifying period for unfair dismissal claims from one on facilitating the involvement of people who are year to two years. [81430] unable or unwilling to engage in normal social and civic life in the Big Society; [82035] Mr Davey: The change in length of the qualifying (2) what assessment his Department has made of the period for unfair dismissal from one year to two years is role of the Big Society in combating social exclusion. part of a set of measures which together will substantially [82036] reduce the total number of employment tribunal claims, including claims for unfair dismissal. Mr Hurd: No explicit assessment or guidance on the Big Society and disadvantaged or unengaged groups Taking into account the impact of these other measures, has been made or issued by the Cabinet Office to date. the additional reduction in claims for unfair dismissal However, the Government recognises that supporting as a result of lengthening the qualifying period is estimated the most disadvantaged is a key part of the Big Society to lie between 1,600 and 2,400 per annum. approach. This focuses on enabling all groups in society A full explanation of how this estimate has been to be able to play their part and thrive, through putting produced is contained in the forthcoming Resolving more power back into people’s hands by opening up Workplace Disputes final stage impact assessment, due public services, promoting social action and empowering to be published shortly. local communities. 333W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 334W

These priorities are reflected in the Office for Civil figures available are for 2009 and these are shown in the table Society’s programmes, including, for example: the below. Final estimates for 2010 are due for publication on 24 Community First and Community Organiser programmes November 2011. which focus on areas of high deprivation and low social Long-term immigration to the UK of people who are EU citizens but who were capital, National Citizen Service, Big Society Capital not born in the EU, 2005-09 and the Big Society and Social Justice Project. Estimate SE%1 2005 9,000 30 Disadvantaged: Expenditure 2006 6,000 34 2007 10,000 39 Michael Dugher: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 2008 12,000 30 Office how much his Department has spent on tackling 2009 10,000 33 social exclusion in each year of the last five years. 1 SE% = Standard error percentage [82038] Source: International Passenger Survey (IPS), ONS Standard error percentages (SE%) indicate the robustness of Mr Hurd: For each year of the operation of the each estimate. A migration figure with a standard error percentage Social Exclusion Taskforce in Cabinet Office, its budget greater than 25% is not considered to be reliable for practical was published as part of the supply estimates with purposes. Figures for combined years may provide more reliable expenditure detailed in the Cabinet Office annual report estimates. In this case, the estimated number of EU citizens who and accounts available at: were not born in the EU, coming to the UK in 2005 and 2006 was 16,000 (22 SE%), and from 2007 to 2009 was 32,000 (20 SE%). www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/cabinet-office- annual-reports-and-accounts Social Exclusion Task Force Disadvantaged: Finance Michael Dugher: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Michael Dugher: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what assessment his Department has made of Office what estimate he has made of the amount of the effect of the closure of the Social Exclusion Task funding from Big Society Capital that will go to Force on the Government’s ability to tackle social projects that combat social exclusion. [82037] exclusion. [81933] Mr Hurd: The purpose of the Big Society Bank is to support the development of a social investment market Mr Hurd: No formal assessment of the impact of the that will increase the opportunities of charities, social closure of the Social Exclusion Task Force has been enterprises and community organisations to access finance. made. Many of these organisations do valuable work combating However fairness is central to this Government’s social exclusion by, for example, providing training and agenda and the important work initiated by the Social employment opportunities to disadvantaged groups. Big Exclusion Task Force is being taken forward across Society Capital will invest in intermediaries that provide Government Departments. financial services and support to charities, social enterprises The Social Justice Cabinet Committee, chaired by the and other civil society organisations. It is therefore Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my right hon. likely that a considerable proportion of Big Society Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green Capital’s investments will ultimately help to combat (Mr Duncan Smith) and composed of Ministers from social exclusion. across relevant Government Departments, is focused on Big Society Capital is an independent company which co-ordinating policy on poverty, equality and social will make its own investment decisions based on the justice. extent to which potential investments support its social Furthermore, this year we have published a cross- objects and meet its investment criteria. government social mobility strategy and announced the Immigrants: EU Nationals new Troubled Families Unit in the Department for Communities and Local Government to better address the needs of the 120,000 most disadvantaged families. Priti Patel: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office how many EU nationals whose original country of birth or origin was not an EU member state have Social Exclusion Task Force: Expenditure entered the UK in each of the last five years. [82113] Michael Dugher: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Office what the budget was of the Social Exclusion responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Task Force in each year of its operation; and how asked the authority to reply. many staff it employed in each year. [82083] Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated November 2011: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Mr Hurd: For each year of the operation of the have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question Social Exclusion Taskforce in Cabinet Office (October concerning how many EU nationals whose original country of 2006 to September 2010), its budget was published as birth or origin was not an EU member state have entered the UK part of the supply estimates. in each of the last five years (82113). The Office for National Statistics produces estimates of long-term The following table shows staff employed in the international migration, primarily based on the International Social Exclusion Taskforce over the above period. At Passenger Survey (IPS). The IPS is a continuous voluntary sample September 2010 21 staff remained, falling to zero over survey conducted by the Office for National Statistics. The latest the following months. 335W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 336W

Social Exclusion Taskforce headcount figures schemes. The lessons learned from the PFI savings pilot Headcount FTE will be applied to all schemes in the PFI pipeline. The last Government left a £50 billion post-dated cheque to 2006-07 18.00 17.21 pay for their hospital building programme. 2007-08 23.00 22.61 2008-09 26.00 25.51 Much of it was unaffordable and poor value for 2009-10 26.00 25.86 money. That was the Labour legacy. We are dealing 2010-11 24.00 23.50 with it, including the 22 NHS trusts who identified that this was a constraint on future sustainability; and a 2011-12 0.00 0.00 smaller number for whom their PFI hospital is not affordable.

HEALTH Carers’ Breaks Winter Pressures: NHS 23. Paul Goggins: To ask the Secretary of State for 7. Sajid Javid: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how much funding he allocated to (a) Health what plans he has to ensure that the NHS is Manchester and (b) Trafford primary care trust for prepared for winter pressures. [81801] carers’ breaks in 2011-12. [81819]

Anne Milton: The national health service and social Paul Burstow: The Government committed an additional care systems are well prepared for winter. Our ’winterwatch’ £400 million of national health service funding up to summary was first published on 17 November. It showed 2015 to support more carers to take a break from their higher flu vaccination uptake, and the Secretary of caring responsibilities. State for Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for This funding has been allocated to primary care South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley), announced additional trusts through their baselines. It is for local commissioners Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation (ECMO) capacity, working with local councils and carers organisations to that will be in place by December. There is always more agree investment priorities to meet the needs of carers. pressure on the national health service during winter. This year will be no different, but the preparations are Monitor: Finance in place. Local Hospital Closures Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what estimate he has made of the cost to the 20. Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State public purse of Monitor from 2013. [81808] for Health what recent representations his Department has received on local hospital service closures. [81815] Mr Simon Burns: The operating cost of Monitor Mr Simon Burns: The reconfiguration of local NHS during the year 2013-14 has not yet been agreed. services is a matter for the local national health service. The Department has published in the impact assessment We expect there to be a rigorous local assessment of any of 8 September that the estimated cost of Monitor, proposals to close hospital services against the four once it has taken on its extra functions in 2015-16, criteria announced last May by the Secretary of State would be £82 million. for Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley). Age UK: Finance Older People Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 21. Lilian Greenwood: To ask the Secretary of State what funding his Department has allocated to Age UK for Health what recent assessment he has made of the in (a) 2010-11 and (b) 2011-12. [81705] adequacy of resources provided for the care of older people. [81816] Paul Burstow: The Department has allocated the following funding to Age UK: Paul Burstow: The Government have committed an additional £7.2 billion to support social care over four £ years up to 2015. This is on top of £6.8 billion of 2010-11 833,370 existing departmental grant funding. 2011-12 703,435 Taken together these funds along with a rigorous approach to quality and productivity improvement provide It should be noted that funding for 2011-12 represents local councils with sufficient resources to protect access the latest allocations and additional funding could be to care for older people. allocated in the remaining months of the financial year. Private Finance Initiative Payments Age UK has received funding from the Department for the role it undertakes as a departmental strategic 22. Claire Perry: To ask the Secretary of State for partner and as a National Agent for the Opportunities Health what steps his Department plans to take to for Volunteering scheme. Age UK is also funded to assist hospitals with the cost of PFI payments. [81817] deliver a regional development support role for some local involvement networks. It has also received funding Mr Lansley: A Treasury review identified savings under the Innovation, Excellence and Strategic opportunities of up to 5% on annual payments in Development scheme and the reaching out to Carers national health service private finance initiative (PFI) Innovation Fund. 337W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 338W

Asthma: Finance whether the Government plans to publish the impact assessment on the Advisory Committee on the Safety Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for of Blood, Tissues and Organs 2009 recommendations Health what funding his Department has made in advance of any new conclusion being reached by the available for tackling asthma in each of the last five Committee. [81639] years. [82053] Anne Milton: Should any advice be received from the Paul Burstow: Funding for national health service Advisory Committee on the Safety of Blood, Tissues services is devolved to primary care trusts through the and Organs an impact assessment will be prepared and resource allocation process and is not ring fenced. We presented to Ministers for consideration with that advice. have estimates of the cost of asthma services from The impact assessment will be published on the programme budgeting data for 2006-07 to 2009-10: Department’s website when that consideration is complete. information was not disaggregated to the level of asthma in earlier years, and is not yet available for 2010-11. Brain Cancer The estimates given include treatment and prescription costs, but not prevention or general practitioner costs, and are as follows: Mr Arbuthnot: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how much his Department provided to each £ billion research study it funded on site-specific brain tumours in (a) 2010 and (b) 2011. [81273] 2006-07 0.85 2007-08 0.97 Mr Simon Burns: The National Institute for Health 2008-09 1.04 Research (NIHR) Invention for Innovation Programme 2009-10 1.08 is funding a project on intraoperative multispectral imaging of brain tumours. Spend on this project was Blood: Donors £107,420 in 2009-10 and £107,420 in 2010-11. NIHR biomedical research centre expenditure on Sir Paul Beresford: To ask the Secretary of State for research infrastructure for brain tumour research was Health pursuant to the answer of 21 October 2011, £148,218 in 2009-10 and £567,838 in 2010-11. Official Report, column 1185W, on blood: donors, what The NIHR is also currently funding a £937,149 clinician (1) new information and analysis has become available scientist award on magnetic resonance (MR) imaging to since the Advisory Committee on the Safety of Blood, characterise invasive phenotypes in cerebral gliomas, Tissues and Organs formulated its initial and a £130,833 healthcare scientist award, recommendations; [81636] ‘Towards improved outcomes for teenagers and young adults (2) evidence the Advisory Committee on Dangerous with cancer through the development and evaluation of novel Pathogens (ACDP) is considering in addition to the MR methods for non-invasive diagnosis and characterisation of evidence from Imperial college; and which research brain tumours’. groups have provided evidence to ACDP. [81637] The NIHR Clinical Research Network (CRN) is currently hosting 17 trials and other well-designed studies Anne Milton: References to all the evidence from in cancers of the brain and nervous system that are in various research groups available to the Advisory set-up or recruiting patients. Details can be found on Committee on the Safety of Blood, Tissues and Organs the UK CRN portfolio database at: and to the Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens are listed in this publicly available paper at: http://public.ukcrn.org.uk/search www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/ @dh/@ab/documents/digitalasset/dh_130152.pdf Cancer: Clinical Trials

Sir Paul Beresford: To ask the Secretary of State for Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the answer of 21 October 2011, Health (1) what proportion of (a) pancreatic and (b) Official Report, column 1185W, on blood: donors, (1) all cancer patients are able to access clinical trials when the Advisory Committee on Blood, Tissues and during their treatment; [81116] Organs will start considering new information and analysis on fresh frozen plasma in 2012; and when he (2) what steps he has taken to increase the access to expects its conclusions to be available; [81638] clinical trials for pancreatic cancer patients. [81215] (2) whether there is a timetable for when the Paul Burstow: In 2010-11, the equivalent of 19.8% of Advisory Committee on the Safety of Blood, Tissues new incident cancer cases were recruited into studies and Organs must decide whether its original hosted by the National Institute for Health Research recommendations should be reviewed. [81640] (NIHR) Cancer Research Network (NCRN), representing Anne Milton: The Advisory Committee on the Safety a fivefold increase in recruitment in the decade since the of Blood, Tissues and Organs will provide advice after network was established. the next meeting on 17 January 2012. A summary of the In 2010-11, a total of 13 pancreatic cancer studies meeting will be published on the Committee’s website hosted by the NCRN were open to recruitment, and shortly thereafter. 687 patients were recruited to them. In addition, the NIHR funds 15 Experimental Cancer Medicine Sir Paul Beresford: To ask the Secretary of State for Centres in partnership with Cancer Research UK. Since Health pursuant to the answer of 21 October 2011, 2007, these centres have supported 23 pancreatic cancer Official Report, column 1185W, on blood: donors, studies. 339W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 340W

The National Cancer Research Institute (NCRI) Upper Paul Burstow: The Department does not collect this Gastrointestinal Clinical Studies Group is dedicated to information. Using data from the National Diabetes developing a portfolio of research studies in this area Audit the following table gives an indication of the total and has a Pancreatic Cancer Subgroup. This subgroup registrations, grouped by age bands, over the past five has developed a number of internationally-run trials. years:

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Registrations Age band 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the average waiting period is to see a 0-15 12,585 14,500 15,136 16,503 17,796 chronic fatigue specialist in (a) East Lancashire and years (b) nationally. [81881] 16-24 11,679 17,856 20,007 22,977 26,063 years 25 years 631,689 1,189,445 1,388,432 1,618,929 1,886,126 Paul Burstow: Information on waiting times to see a + chronic fatigue/myalgic encephalomyelitis specialist is Notes: not collected centrally. 1. The NDA does not have 100%, participation or coverage so the figures should be treated with caution. Growth in numbers of registrations in NDA Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for needs to be assessed in the context of the growth in coverage for the audit. 2. Quality Outcomes Framework data is an aggregate return so does not Health how many chronic fatigue specialists there are contain the detail required to respond to this question. based in East Lancashire. [81882] Source: National Diabetes Audit (NDA) Mr Simon Burns: This information is not collected centrally. Diabetes: Health Services

Diabetes Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what training he plans to provide to healthcare Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health professionals to ensure that they offer a personalised what assessment he has made of the (a) health, (b) programme of treatment for people with diabetes. [R] social and (c) financial benefits of automatic [81975] enrolment of people with diabetes on a scheme such as the Dose Adjustment for Normal Eating diabetes Paul Burstow: The content and standard of health management scheme for adults with diabetes. [R] care training is the responsibility of the independent [81962] regulatory bodies for the professions concerned. Through their role as the custodians of standards in education Paul Burstow: The Department has not made a formal and practice, these organisations are committed to ensuring assessment of the benefits of automatic enrolment of high quality patient care is delivered by health professionals people with diabetes on a scheme such as the Dose and that health care professionals are equipped with the Adjustment for Normal Eating (DAFNE) diabetes knowledge, skills and behaviours required to deal with management scheme for adults with diabetes. the problems and conditions they will encounter in However, the benefits to patients and cost-effectiveness practice. of the DAFNE scheme have been recognised through its Inclusion in the NHS Evidence Quality, Innovation, Diabetes: Young People Productivity and Prevention database. The database consists of real examples of how health and social care Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health staff are improving quality and productivity across the (1) what nationwide arrangements his Department has National Health Service and social care. put in place to support the provision of transitional Provision of structured education for people with care for adolescents and young adults with diabetes diabetes is in the Diabetes Quality Standard. It is for moving between paediatric and adult healthcare; [R] local NHS organisations to deliver comprehensive high- [81957] quality and safe diabetes services, appropriate to the (2) what assessment he has made of the difficulties needs of their populations. faced by young people and adolescents with diabetes when moving from children’s medical care services to Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health adult medical care service; [R] [81963] what steps he is taking to ensure that people with (3) what mechanism his Department has put in place diabetes have adequate access to health care to enable paediatric and adult health services to work professionals to assist them with day-to-day together and share information about young people management of their condition. [R] [81973] with diabetes to ensure an effective transition between paediatric and adult health services; [R] [81966] Paul Burstow: Local health care organisations are in the best position to determine the work force needed to (4) what support services his Department has put in deliver safe and high-quality patient care for their local place to enable paediatric and adult diabetes health populations. We expect decisions on the commissioning services to engage with a patient with diabetes and their and delivery of local services to be informed by clinical family from an early stage to assist with (a) the involvement and leadership. transition between the different health providers and (b) establishing good diabetes management Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health behaviours; [R] [81967] how many (a) children, (b) adolescents, (c) young (5) what assessment his Department has made of adults and (d) other adults were diagnosed with each method and model for transitional care of young diabetes in each of the last five years. [R] [82233] people and adolescents with diabetes; and whether his 341W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 342W

Department considers any one method or model to be Paul Burstow: We do not collect this information more appropriate and effective; [R] [81968] centrally. (6) what steps he has taken to ensure that all children Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and young people with diabetes have access to (a) a (1) what programmes equivalent to the Dose transitional care clinic and (b) a key worker to Adjustment for Normal Eating diabetes management co-ordinate their treatment and transition between scheme for adults with diabetes his Department has put paediatric and adult care services; [R] [81969] into place to provide peer-led support and educational (7) how many specialised clinics there are providing services for young adults and adolescents with diabetes; transitional care for young people and adolescents with [R] [81961] diabetes; [R] [81971] (2) what (a) educational, (b) peer assistance and (c) (8) what steps he is taking to provide a other services his Department makes available to young comprehensive nationwide network of transitional care people and adolescents to assist them with creating a clinics for young people and adolescents with diabetes; personal diabetes management routine. [R] [81964] [R] [81972] (9) what assessment his Department has made of the Paul Burstow: Local national health service organisations (a) financial and (b) social effects of providing full are responsible for providing comprehensive, high-quality transitional care to young people and adolescents with and safe diabetes services appropriate to their local diabetes. [R] [81977] populations, Including diabetes management schemes in place to provide peer-led support and educational Paul Burstow: The Department does not centrally services for young adults and adolescents with diabetes. collect information about specialised clinics providing We are aware that such schemes, for example ’KICk- transitional care for young people and adolescents with OFF’, ’Cascade’ and ’Getting Sorted’, are being piloted diabetes. and set up around the country by local national health However, we recognise the importance of effective service and other organisations. We look forward to transition between children’s and adults’ services. It is seeing the evaluation and results of these schemes. for local health service organisations to commission a Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health comprehensive service for all people with diabetes, including (1) what steps he has taken to provide young people adolescents and adults and those moving through transition. and adolescents with diabetes with information about This is why, subject to the passage of the Health and their condition and how to manage it; and what (a) Social Care Bill, Clinical Commissioning Groups, working online guides, (b) telephone services, (c) apps and (d) in conjunction with Health and Wellbeing Boards, will other educational services his Department has be required to take account of their population’s needs developed in this area; [R] [81965] and commission and provide services accordingly. (2) if he will make it his policy to support the The National Service Framework for Diabetes, published establishment of educational services for young people in 2001, has a specific standard on the smooth transition and adolescents with diabetes which are staffed by of care from paediatric diabetes services to adult diabetes other young people with the condition; and what services, whether hospital or community-based, either consideration he has given to the form such support directly or via a young people’s clinic. could take; [R] [81976] There is also NHS Diabetes commissioning guidance (3) what assessment his Department has made of the for diabetes in children and young people, which states effect of establishing good diabetes management that transition services for young people: behaviours during childhood and adolescence on (a) should be run by both adult and paediatric consultant the long-term health of children and adolescents and diabetologists; and (b) costs incurred by the NHS in providing treatment the care plan must be jointly reviewed and agreed with the of diabetes and diabetes-related issues. [R] [81978] patient (and carer, if appropriate) NHS Diabetes has also initiated the national Children Paul Burstow: The NHS Operating Framework 2011-12 and Young People network, to address unwarranted specifically states that primary care trusts should be variation in services for this group, and to improve the commissioning the relevant structured education to support care and treatment they receive. The national network all people with diabetes. constitutes 12 clinical champions roughly representing The best practice tariff being introduced soon for the strategic health authority regions across England, paediatric diabetes also includes a requirement for 24-hour led, funded and coordinated by NHS Diabetes. A new support and advice to be available to patients and their piece of work is currently being scoped for introduction families. Local national health service organisations are across the Network, which will look at supporting the responsible for providing comprehensive, high-quality transition from children to adult services, and at providing and safe diabetes services appropriate to their local more individual care planning and supported self-care. populations, including providing information and education to people with diabetes about their condition and how Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health to manage it. what estimate his Department has made of the cost to National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence the NHS arising from emergency and urgent medical guidance on the diagnosis and management of type 1 treatment of young people and adolescents with diabetes in children, young people and adults recommends diabetes who experience difficulty managing their that children and young people are offered a structured condition; and if he will assess what the effect of programme of education when they are newly diagnosed, provision of comprehensive transitional care services and ongoing opportunities to access information, to will be on the level of such costs. [R] [81959] help them manage their condition. 343W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 344W

Charities such as Diabetes UK and the Juvenile Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Diabetes Research Foundation also provide information what estimate he has made of the cost to the NHS of resources in different formats for people with diabetes. missed appointments booked on behalf of young We also recognise the difficulties that some children people and adolescents with diabetes; and what steps and adolescents with diabetes have in accessing the he is taking to reduce the numbers of such missed support they need to manage their condition at school. appointments. [R] [81974] The Department for Children, Schools and Families, in close liaison with the Department, issued guidance on Paul Burstow: We do not collect this information “Managing Medicines in Schools and Early YearsSetting” centrally. in November 2007. This guidance explains the roles and Diamorphine responsibilities of employers, parents and carers, governing bodies, head teachers, teachers and other staff and of local health services. Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what funding he plans to allocate to explore the The information is not collected centrally that would wider prescribing of diamorphine up to March 2015; allow assessments of the effects of establishing good to whom; which activities will be funded; and which diabetes management behaviours during childhood. body will be responsible for allocating the funding; [81490] Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps he plans to take to co-ordinate the collection (2) what estimate he has made of the number of of information and medical history from young people patients who will receive treatment as a result of the and adolescents with diabetes to ensure that (a) the wider prescribing of diamorphine up to March 2015. medical professionals treating them have access to all [81491] relevant information, (b) patients do not have to explain the details of their condition on each occasion Anne Milton: £2 million per annum has been identified and (c) duplication of data and appointments services for centrally-funded pilots of supervised inject able is eliminated. [R] [81970] opioid treatment for the small numbers who may benefit. The procurement process for these pilots is still subject Paul Burstow: In October 2010, we published a to ministerial and HM Treasury approval. Pending such consultation document ‘Liberating the NHS: An approval the other information requested is not available. Information Revolution’ setting out our plans to transform Doctors’ List of Patients the way information is collected, controlled, accessed, analysed and used across the NHS and adult social care. Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what guidance he has issued to GPs on The consultation closed earlier this year and we have removing patients from their lists. [81279] published a summary of the consultation responses. We are using these, together with the outcome from the Mr Simon Burns: The procedures which a general independent NHS Future Forum, to develop an practitioner (GP) practice must follow when removing a Information Strategy—which we plan to publish in the patient from its list are set out in the regulations covering winter. the contractual arrangements between the GP practice The strategy is looking at how information can be and its primary care trust (PCT). better used by and shared between health and care Under the terms of its contract, a GP practice may professionals to help ensure people experience safe, remove any patient from its list of national health seamless and integrated care. This includes looking at service patients if it believes that it has reasonable how information (such as medical history) about an grounds for doing so. Patients should be given a warning individual can be captured once at the point of care and before action is taken for removal and specific reasons then used many times across different care settings. This as to why the removal has occurred. will help to create new opportunities for improved effectiveness, safety and a higher quality of care experienced If anyone who has been removed from a practice list by those using services, particularly for people who are has difficulty in finding another practice, the PCT has a regular users of services, for example people with diabetes. legal responsibility to find them a practice with which to register. The NHS Future Forum has been undertaking further engagement on a number of key areas, including looking General Practitioners at how information can be made available to improve health, care and well-being. A letter containing some Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for interim advice was published on 17 November 2011 and Health who will be responsible for assigning patients recognised that data about a patient or service user who have been removed from their GP list to other GP should—with the right safeguards—be shared between lists after the abolition of primary care trusts as part of all the organisations involved in caring for that person. his proposed NHS reforms. [81365] We agree—and this initial feedback, together with the more detailed report which we expect to be published in Mr Simon Burns: Subject to the passage of the Health December, will help to inform the strategy. and Social Care Bill, this responsibility will lie with the The information revolution consultation and the NHS Commissioning Board. summary of responses are available on the Department’s website at: Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for www.dh.gov.uk/en/Consultations/Liveconsultations/ Health what complaint handling procedures there will DH_120080 be for patients who have been removed from a GP list 345W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 346W following the abolition of primary care trusts; and If a complainant is not satisfied with the outcome of whether this process will include (a) the practice their complaint at local level, they will continue to be manager of the relevant GP practice, (b) the Clinical able to take their complaint to the health service Commissioning Group lead, (c) the Parliamentary and ombudsman. Health Services Ombudsman and (d) any other body; Hospitals: Waiting Lists and if he will make a statement. [81366]

Mr Simon Burns: We envisage that the current Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for arrangements for handling national health service Health what the performance was of (a) Dartford and complaints will continue following the implementation Gravesham NHS Trust, (b) East Kent Hospitals of the Health and Social Care Bill. University NHS Foundation Trust, (c) Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust, (d) Medway NHS The Local Authority Social Services and National Foundation Trust against the 18 week waiting time Health Service Complaints (England) Regulations 2009 target in (i) 2008-09, (ii) 2009-10 and (iii) 2010-11; and allow for a complaint about NHS services to be made to what the performance was in England in each such either the commissioner or the provider of those NHS year. [81862] services. Each commissioner or provider of NHS services Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is shown must designate a complaints manager, to be responsible in the following tables. The data shows the performance for managing the procedures for handling and considering of each of the four trusts and England in the specified complaints. years against the 18-week waiting time standards:

Percentage of admitted (adjusted) referral to treatment (RTT) pathways within 18-weeks (waiting time standard of 90%) Dartford and East Kent Hospitals Maidstone and Gravesham NHS University NHS Tunbridge Wells Medway NHS England Trust Foundation Trust NHS Trust Foundation Trust

April 2008 86.7 71.8 84.7 57.4 92.3 May 2008 88.6 80.2 87.2 62.3 91.8 June 2008 88.9 78.9 87.2 68.5 95.1 July 2008 89.9 80.8 87.5 68.1 96.0 Auqust2008 90.3 87.6 87.0 68.8 96.8 2008-09 September 2008 90.2 96.2 84.4 74.3 95.8 October 2008 90.6 93.9 83.5 81.0 95.4 November 2008 90.6 91.8 81.9 85.2 93.6 December 2008 92.8 94.3 86.1 90.6 96.5 January 2009 92.9 95.4 90.2 90.6 94.2 February 2009 92.8 95.0 90.2 90.2 93.3 March 2009 93.0 94.2 91.3 90.6 94.4 April 2009 93.3 92.0 90.1 90.1 93.1 May 2009 93.7 91.7 90.8 92.3 94.8 June 2009 93.6 91.4 90.4 90.3 94.0 July 2009 93.7 91.8 91.9 90.9 95.3 August 2009 93.6 90.9 91.5 90.1 94.3 2009-10 September 2009 93.3 91.0 91.4 92.3 95.9 October 2009 93.0 91.2 92.3 93.3 96.1 November 2009 92.8 91.1 92.6 92.4 96.3 December 2009 93.3 92.8 92.5 92.2 95.9 January 2010 92.6 91.5 91.5 92.5 95.0 February 2010 91.9 91.1 84.3 93.2 93.7 March 2010 92.0 93.5 81.8 95.0 93.3 2010-11 April 2010 92.1 94.3 86.0 93.3 92.1 May 2010 92.9 95.3 86.9 93.6 91.6 June 2010 93.1 96.0 89.0 94.3 90.8 July 2010 93.3 95.8 91.8 94.4 90.6 August 2010 93.2 93.7 92.2 93.8 91.8 September 2010 92.5 92.8 91.5 93.7 90.5 October 2010 92.4 91.9 92.0 93.0 90.6 November 2010 92.0 92.4 91.1 93.9 90.3 December 2010 92.2 90.1 90.6 94.2 92.9 347W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 348W

Percentage of admitted (adjusted) referral to treatment (RTT) pathways within 18-weeks (waiting time standard of 90%) Dartford and East Kent Hospitals Maidstone and Gravesham NHS University NHS Tunbridge Wells Medway NHS England Trust Foundation Trust NHS Trust Foundation Trust

January 2011 90.7 87.8 89.4 92.9 90.1 February 2011 89.8 89.4 86.5 92.9 90.2 March 2011 89.6 94.5 86.1 92.7 91.5

Percentage of non-admitted RTT pathways within 18-weeks (waiting time standard of 95%) Dartford and East Kent Hospitals Maidstone and Gravesham NHS University NHS Tunbridge Wells Medway NHS Month England Trust Foundation Trust NHS Trust Foundation Trust

April 2008 92.1 90.3 96.9 80.0 94.7 May 2008 92.8 91.2 96.2 86.4 97.1 June 2008 93.7 95.7 96,4 90.0 98.0 July 2008 94.6 93.6 96.6 91.1 99.7 Auqust2008 95.0 95.2 97.0 91.4 97.6 2008-09 September 2008 95.4 95.6 96.5 94.2 96.7 October 2008 94.8 96.2 97.5 96.7 96.4 November 2008 96.2 96.5 97.0 95.0 96.3 December 2008 96.8 96.5 97.2 95.4 97.9 January 2009 97.1 97.4 98.6 95.6 98.1 February 2009 97.1 97.4 98.5 95.1 97.3 March 2009 97.2 97.3 97.9 95.2 97.3 April 2009 97.3 97.1 98.3 95.1 97.7 May 2009 97.6 97.2 96.5 95.8 97.5 June 2009 97.6 97.2 97.0 95.4 98.6 July 2009 97.6 97.6 99.5 95.2 97.8 August 2009 97.6 97.8 99.3 95.0 97.4 2009-10 September 2009 97.5 97.7 99.2 95.2 97.8 October 2009 97.6 97.9 99.1 96.0 98.5 November 2009 97.7 97.6 97.6 96.4 98.7 December 2009 97.8 98.2 98.9 95.9 99.0 January 2010 97.7 97.6 95.3 96.2 98.3 February 2010 97.7 97.4 99.0 96.1 98.4 March 2010 97.8 97.9 99.2 96.1 98.9 2010-11 April 2010 97.9 98.0 99.2 96.1 98.7 May 2010 98.1 98.1 98.0 96.0 99.4 June 2010 98.1 98.5 97.7 95.9 98.8 July 2010 98.0 98.4 97.5 96.2 99.2 August 2010 98.0 98.5 97.9 95.8 98.7 September 2010 97.8 98.2 97.2 95.8 98.7 October 2010 97.6 98.7 97.4 96.5 98.8 November 2010 97.5 98.3 96.2 96.0 98.3 December 2010 97.5 98.4 97.1 97.1 98.3 January 2011 97.2 97.7 95.6 95.9 98.2 February 2011 97.1 97.5 95.3 95.7 98.3 March 2011 97.2 98.0 96.2 97.7 98.6 Notes: 1. Admitted RTT pathways are waiting times for patients whose treatment started during the month and involved admission to hospital. 2. Non-admitted RTT pathways are waiting times for patients whose treatment started during the month and did not involve admission to hospital. 3. Adjustments are made to admitted RTT pathways for clock pauses, where a patient had declined reasonable offers of admission and chosen to wait longer.

Infant Foods: Marketing Anne Milton: There have been no recent discussions between the Department and infant formula (baby milk) Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health manufacturers on the advertising and marketing of what recent discussions his Department has had with their products. baby milk manufacturers on the advertising and marketing of their products. [81899] 349W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 350W

Medicine: Research Anne Milton: Impact assessments have not been carried out on the Public Health Responsibility Deal’s pledges. Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for The pledges represent a series of voluntary commitments, Health what discussions he has had with the (a) which public, private and third sector organisations are Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills able to sign up to if they wish. and (b) Minister for Science and Universities on the effects of the Government’s policies on (i) medical Obesity research and (ii) the future of the Clinical Excellence Awards Scheme. [81145] Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many people in England aged (a) under five, (b) Mr Simon Burns: In line with the. practice of previous between five and 16 and (c) over 16 years old, were Administrations, details of ministerial discussions on classified as obese in each financial year since 1997. ongoing policy issues are not disclosed, as this could [82226] undermine effective Government decision-making. Any issues that require the consideration of Cabinet or Anne Milton: Information is not available in the reporting to Parliament will be dealt with according to format requested. the proper protocol. Information on the percentage of obese children in In 2011, the Review Body on Doctors’ and Dentists’ England is available in the ‘Health Survey for England— Remuneration led a review on the Clinical Excellence 2009 trend tables’’ Child trend tables, Table 4. Information award scheme. Their report is currently being considered is provided for children aged two to 15 in England for by Ministers. the years 1995 to 2009. This information is available at: www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/hse09trends NHS: Pensions Information on the percentage of obese adults aged 16 and over in England is available in the ‘Health Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Survey for England—2009 trend tables’, Adult trend Health what proportion of active members of the NHS tables, Table 4. Information is provided for adults in Pension Scheme earning less than £15,000 per year (a) England for the years 1993 to 2009. This information is are female and (b) work part-time. [81572] available at: Mr Simon Burns: Estimates based on data extracted www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/hse09trends from the Electronic Staff Record in March 2011 for Further information on the prevalence of obesity in Hospital and Community Health services staff show children is available through the National Child that the proportion of active members of the NHS Measurement Programme. Information is available for Pension Scheme earning less than £15,000 per year that children in reception (four to five years) and year 6 (10 (a) are female is 90% and (b) work part-time is 88%. to 11 years) for the years 2006-07 to 2009-10. Information showing the prevalence of obesity in these two school Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health years in England is available for each year from the how many members of the NHS pension scheme of following links: each NHS profession had a pension fund worth more Table 1 in the excel file accompanying ‘National than £1 million at retirement in each financial year Child Measurement Programme: results from the 2007/08 since 1997. [82228] school year, headline results is available at: www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- Mr Simon Burns: The information is not available lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. results-from-the-school-year-2007-08 Table 1 in the excel file accompanying ‘National NHS: Standards Child Measurement Programme: results from the 2006/07 school year, headline results’ is available at: Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- Health with reference to the Information lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- Commissioner’s recent ruling in respect of his results-from-the-2006-07-school-year Department’s strategic risk register, if he will arrange All these documents have already been placed in the for the register to be published. [81581] Library. Mr Simon Burns: The Department is considering its Table 1 in the excel file accompanying ‘National response to the Information Commissioner’s decision Child Measurement Programme: England, 2009/10 school of 2 November to require its release, and expects to year’ is available at: respond by early December. www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- Nutrition england-2009-10-school-year Table 1 in the excel file accompanying ‘National Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Child Measurement Programme: England, 2008/09 school pursuant to the answer of 31 October 2011, Official year’ is available at: Report, column 746W, on nutrition, whether any www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- impact assessments were carried out in cases where his lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- Department has developed Public Health england-2008-09-school-year Responsibility Deal pledges on a basis of limited Copies of these documents have been placed in the evidence; and if he will make a statement. [81560] Library. 351W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 352W

Organs: Donors Palliative Care Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for pursuant to the answer of 2 November 2011, Official Health how many bed days the NHS provided for Report, column 628W, on organ donors, what the palliative care in the last 12 months. [81592] evidential basis is for the conclusion that his Department is on track to meet the 50 per cent. Paul Burstow: The number of finished consultant improvement in deceased donor rates by 2013 episode bed days for the main specialty ‘palliative medicine’ anticipated by the Organ Donation Taskforce; and if in 2010-11 as reported in the Hospital Episode Statistics he will make a statement. [81139] was 115,4871. However, these data reflect the specialty of the consultant responsible for the care of the patient Anne Milton: The Organ Donation Taskforce anticipated not the range of treatment that the patient received. It is that we would meet a 50% improvement in deceased not possible to extrapolate from these data to say how donor rates by 2013. Latest available figures show that many people receive palliative care in national health deceased donor numbers have increased by 31.4% against service hospitals: for example, a patient under the care the 2007-08 baseline. We are on target to achieve a 35% of a cardiologist might also receive palliative care but increase by March 2012 and a 50% increase by the the data would record the cardiology specialism. following year as it is expected that there will be even The final report of the independent Palliative Care greater increments in the last year. Funding Review (PCFR) recognised that there is a Since the publication of the report by the Organ paucity of data available on palliative care. The Department Donation Taskforce in 2008, a great deal of work has is working with the National End of Life Care Intelligence taken place to strengthen the donation programme and Network and through the work to take forward the increase the number of organs available for patients. PCFR to address this issue. There are now over 200 highly trained specialist nurses 1 source: for organ donation based in hospitals across the country Hospital Episode Statistics and The NHS Information Centre for and NHS Blood and Transplant is continuing to train health and social care. and recruit more staff into this vital role. Clinical leads for organ donation have been appointed in every acute Pancreatic Cancer hospital working closely with hospital organ donation committees to increase donation rates. Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what assessment he has made of the effects of The appointment of Chris Rudge to chair a Transitional implementing the actions contained in his Steering Group pending the introduction of the new Department’s document, Improving Outcomes: a Commissioning Board will help maintain the momentum Strategy for Cancer on pancreatic cancer survival rates. of improvement focusing action on increasing consent [81438] rates, encouraging deceased donation in all appropriate circumstances and increasing donation from emergency Paul Burstow: The coalition Government’s, “Improving medicine. Outcomes: A Strategy for Cancer”, was published on 12 Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for January, it sets out a range of actions to improve cancer Health what progress the NHS has made towards its outcomes, including diagnosing cancer earlier, helping target of a 50 per cent. increase in organ donation by people to live healthier lives to reduce preventable cancers, screening more people, introducing new screening 2013. [81439] programmes and ensuring that all patients have access Anne Milton: Latest available figures show that deceased to the best possible treatment, care and support. donor numbers have increased by 31.4% against the The strategy sets out our ambition to bring England’s 2007-08 baseline. We are on target to achieve a 35% cancer survival rates in line with the European average increase by March 2012 and a 50% increase by the by 2014-15. Research has shown that to match the following year. European average we need to save 5,000 additional lives Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for per year. This research also shows that if England’s Health how many organ donation registrations there survival rates were as good as the best in Europe we have been in each of the last three years for which would save 10,000 additional lives per year. This figure figures are available. [81599] has also been broken down by tumour site, and we estimate that we would save 75 additional lives each Anne Milton: The information requested is provided year if we matched the best European survival rate for in the following table. pancreatic cancer. Additions to the organ donor register (ODR), April 2008 to March 2011, by The strategy’s first annual report will be published year this winter. Added in year ODR Percentage increase Schools: Sports 2008-09 1,073,000 7.4 2009-10 1,191,000 7.6 Clive Efford: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 2010-11 930,000 5.5 (1) how he plans to assess the health benefits children Total on ODR at 31 March 2011 17,765,000 — gain from participating in the School Games Notes: programme; and if he will make a statement; [81949] 1. The reason for the reduced rate of increase for 2010-11 when compared to the previous years is because registration to the ODR was put on hold while NHS (2) what assessment he has made of the additional Blood and Transplant resolved a registration system issue. health benefits children are likely to derive from being 2. The number of people signed up to the ODR as at 15 November 2011 was involved in competitive sport as part of the School 18,412,041. Source: Games programme; and if he will make a statement. NHS Blood and Transplant. [81950] 353W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 354W

Anne Milton: The School Games will have a focus on Furthermore, the new social marketing strategy encouraging participation in sport across the spectrum ‘Changing Behaviours, Improving Outcomes’ recognises of abilities and experience and those who have not that young people need tailored support to assist them previously engaged in competitive sport. Currently over with making healthy and responsible choices. A new a third of schools in England have signed up for the approach, to be launched next year, is being developed. School Games. Through their participation, thousands It aims to reduce harmful lifestyle choices through of children and young people will be working towards better signposting for both young people and their the Chief Medical Officer’s guidelines of 60 minutes of parents to credible and high quality health advice. moderate intensity activity a day. The health benefits will flow from the levels of participation, particularly Social Services those who are least active. We are also funding the development of Change4Life Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for school sport dubs in order to inspire the least active Health what estimate he has made of the number of children and young people into participating in the people receiving care in the community in (a) Kent School Games. Initial findings from the recent establishment and (b) England in (i) 2008-09, (ii) 2009-10 and (iii) of 3,000 Change4Life School Sports Clubs in secondary 2010-11. [81863] schools are encouraging. We will shortly publish the independent evaluation of the first year of the programme. Paul Burstow: The NHS Information Centre for health Competitive sport is a way for young people to develop and social care collects and publishes data on the number their talents and increase their self-confidence, resilience of adults (aged 18 and over) receiving community-based and self-esteem. It can also help develop important life services, funded either partially or wholly by councils skills such as teamwork and dedication. The benefits of with adult social services responsibilities (CASSRs). competitive sport and regular activity can also be seen Community-based services include home care, day in improved concentration and academic performance, care, meals, short-term residential (but not respite) care, enhanced cardio-metabolic and bone health and improved direct payments, professional support, equipment and psychological well-being. adaptations. Clive Efford: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Information on such services which are arranged and what assessment he has made of the health benefits of funded privately by service users is not collected centrally. increased participation by children in school sports The following table shows the number of people, over the last six years; and if he will make a statement. aged 18 and over, who received community-based services [81951] from CASSRs in the period 1 April to 31 March, Anne Milton: Participation in school sport supports 2008-09 and 2009-10 in Kent and England. children and young people to develop the skills and confidence to play sport and be physically active. The 2008-09 2009-10 benefits of physical activity include healthy weight, Kent 37,465 39,310 enhanced cardio-metabolic and bone health and improved England total 1,537,380 1,464,140 psychological well-being. Note: Initial findings from the recent establishment of 3,000 Figures are rounded to the nearest five. Change4Life school sports clubs in secondary schools Source: are encouraging. We will shortly publish the independent NHS Information Centre—Referrals, Assessments and Packages of Care (RAP) Return P1 evaluation of the first year of the programme. Provisional data for the period 1 April 2010 to 31 March Clive Efford: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 2011 are due to be published by the Information Centre what steps he is taking to promote healthy lifestyles on 30 November 2011. among school age children; and if he will make a statement. [81952] Surgery Anne Milton: The Public Health White Paper, ‘Healthy Lives, Healthy People’, makes clear our life-course approach Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health to health promotion. Subject to the passage of the what research his Department has commissioned on Health and Social Care Bill, the responsibility for health the minimum number of procedures carried out per improvement and promotion will transfer to local year required for an arterial centre to provide the most authorities. They will receive ring-fenced funding from effective care for patients. [81408] 2013 to promote healthy lifestyle choices by school-aged children such as risky sexual behaviour, smoking, drugs, Mr Simon Burns: The Department has not commissioned alcohol and lack of physical activity. research on this specific topic. The school nursing service plays a key role in supporting The National Institute for Health Research funds the schools as health-promoting environments. The Department Centre for Reviews and Dissemination at the University is developing a new vision for school nurses, drawing on of York, one of the largest groups in the world engaged views of young people and collaboration with the sector. exclusively in evidence synthesis in the health field. The In addition, the Healthy Schools toolkit remains centre produces the Database of Abstracts of Reviews available for schools to support their work on health of Effects, which is focused primarily on systematic promotion and behaviour change. The Healthy Child reviews that evaluate the effects of health care interventions Programme for school-aged children outlines for and the delivery and organisation of health services, commissioners and professionals the evidenced based including evidence on standards relating to vascular interventions to promote good health. surgical procedures. 355W Written Answers22 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 356W

Transplant Surgery: Public Appointments rates through undertaking brainstem death testing and considering donation after cardiac death in all appropriate Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for circumstances, increasing consent rates, increasing donation Health whether his Department plans to recruit a new from emergency medicine, timely referral of donors and national clinical director for transplantation following better donor management. the retirement of the current appointee. [81437] The independent Organ Donation Taskforce was established in December 2006 to identify barriers to Anne Milton: On 9 November 2011, the Government organ donation and to recommend what action needed announced that Chris Rudge has been appointed to to be taken to increase organ donation within the chair a Transitional Steering Group (TSG). The TSG United Kingdom. Chris Rudge was a member of the has been established to help maintain the momentum to taskforce and wrote its first report, published in January achieve the target of a 50% increase in organ donation 2008, “Organs for Transplants”. The report made a rates by 2013 pending the introduction of the NHS total of 14 recommendations broadly to increase donor Commissioning Board. During the transitional period, rates and to make organ donation a usual part of the TSG will be focusing on—optimising deceased donation end-of-life care.

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 22 November 2011

Col. No. Col. No. HEALTH...... 139 HEALTH—continued Accident and Emergency Provision...... 150 Private Finance Initiative Payments ...... 147 Care Standards ...... 145 Public Health Funding...... 143 Children’s Cardiac Services...... 142 Social Care...... 151 Dental Services ...... 146 Strategic Risk Register ...... 152 Health and Wellbeing Boards...... 148 Topical Questions ...... 154 Marmot Review ...... 140 Training (Nurses and Doctors) ...... 151 NHS Hospital Debt ...... 142 Winter Pressures (NHS)...... 149 NHS Staffing ...... 139 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Tuesday 22 November 2011

Col. No. Col. No. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 17WS TRANSPORT ...... 18WS Energy Council ...... 17WS Coastguard Modernisation ...... 18WS PRIME MINISTER ...... 18WS Committee on Standards in Public Life ...... 18WS PETITION

Tuesday 22 November 2011

Col. No. Col. No. PRESENTED PETITION Teachers’ Pension Scheme...... 1P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Tuesday 22 November 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 320W CABINET OFFICE—continued Apprentices: Bedfordshire...... 320W Business: Middlesbrough ...... 332W Bell Pottinger Group...... 321W Disadvantaged ...... 332W Business ...... 322W Disadvantaged: Expenditure ...... 333W Business: Loans...... 323W Disadvantaged: Finance...... 333W Business: Northern Ireland ...... 323W Immigrants: EU Nationals...... 333W Business: Regulation ...... 323W Social Exclusion Task Force...... 334W Debts: Advisory Services...... 324W Social Exclusion Task Force: Expenditure ...... 334W Departmental Consultants...... 324W Departmental Recruitment ...... 324W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 224W EU Grants and Loans...... 325W Audit Commission ...... 224W Export Credit Guarantees: Arms Trade ...... 325W Council Tax Benefits...... 224W Government Departments: Public Consultation .... 325W Empty Property: Bolton...... 225W Green Construction Board...... 326W Fire Services: Pensions ...... 225W Higher Education: Foreign Students ...... 326W Gurkhas: Aldershot ...... 225W Nuclear Power: Job Creation...... 326W Housing ...... 226W Overseas Trade: Environment Protection ...... 327W Local Government Finance ...... 226W Overseas Trade: Russia ...... 328W Local Government: Pensions ...... 226W Post Offices: ICT...... 328W Planning Permission ...... 227W Post Offices: Photography ...... 328W Planning Permission: Appeals...... 227W Sir Andrew Cahn ...... 329W Planning Permission: Bolton...... 227W Sky Lanterns...... 329W Regeneration: Cambridgeshire...... 228W Supermarkets: Ombudsman...... 330W Sleeping Rough ...... 229W Trade Unions: Finance...... 330W Waste Disposal: Fees and Charges ...... 229W Training: Internet...... 330W Water ...... 230W Unfair Dismissal: Employment Tribunals Service .. 331W CABINET OFFICE...... 332W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT...... 235W Big Society Capital: Grants...... 332W Advisers ...... 235W Col. No. Col. No. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT—continued ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS— Architecture ...... 236W continued Arts...... 236W Agriculture: Sky Lanterns...... 299W Arts Council England: Voluntary Organisations ... 237W Animal Welfare: Circuses...... 300W BBC ...... 237W Animal Welfare: Dogs...... 300W Betting Shops: Licensing ...... 237W Biodiversity: Finance ...... 300W Broadband ...... 238W Biofuels: Pollution...... 301W Broadband: Cumbria...... 238W Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control...... 302W Broadband: Northern Ireland...... 238W Canal and River Trust: Finance ...... 303W Departmental Design...... 239W Carbon Emissions...... 304W English Heritage: Voluntary Organisations...... 239W Dangerous Dogs ...... 304W Gun Quarter ...... 239W Departmental ICT ...... 305W Olympic Delivery Authority ...... 239W Departmental Location...... 305W Olympic Delivery Authority: Pay...... 240W Departmental Pay ...... 305W Olympic Games 2012: Advertising...... 240W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 306W Olympic Games 2012: Contracts ...... 240W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 306W Sport England...... 241W Departmental Security ...... 307W Sports: Schools ...... 242W Dogs: Tagging...... 307W Telecommunications ...... 242W Farming and Wildlife Advisory Group ...... 308W Television...... 243W Marine Conservation Zones...... 309W VisitBritain: Voluntary Organisations...... 243W Meat: Overseas Trade...... 309W Milk: Imports ...... 310W DEFENCE...... 269W Poultry: Animal Welfare ...... 310W Adam Werritty...... 269W Poultry: EU Law...... 310W Armed Forces ...... 269W Rivers...... 311W Armed Forces: Housing ...... 270W Sustainable Growing Media Task Force...... 311W Armed Forces: North Yorkshire...... 270W Water Abstraction...... 312W Armed Forces: Officers ...... 270W Armed Forces: Training ...... 271W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 243W AWE ...... 271W Armed Forces: Children ...... 243W BAE Systems ...... 272W Arms Trade: EU Action ...... 244W Building Stability Overseas ...... 273W Arms Trade: Treaties ...... 244W HMS Poseidon...... 273W Bosnia and Herzegovina: EU Enlargement ...... 245W Met Office...... 274W Bosnia and Herzegovina: Terrorism ...... 245W Military Aircraft ...... 274W British Nationals Abroad: Prisoners...... 245W Military Bases...... 274W Democratic Republic of Congo: Foreign Military Bases: Radioactive Waste...... 275W Relations...... 246W Trident ...... 275W Human Rights: Business...... 246W World War II: Military Decorations...... 275W Libya: Asylum ...... 246W Libya: Elections ...... 247W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 319W Macedonia: EU Enlargement ...... 247W Armed Forces: Electoral Register...... 319W Members: Correspondence ...... 247W Electoral Register...... 320W Somalia: International Assistance...... 247W

EDUCATION...... 296W HEALTH...... 335W Children: Day Care ...... 296W Age UK: Finance...... 336W Children: Hearing Impairment ...... 297W Asthma: Finance...... 337W Children’s Centres: Leicester...... 297W Blood: Donors ...... 337W Home-Start...... 297W Brain Cancer...... 338W School Meals: Standards...... 298W Cancer: Clinical Trials...... 338W Carers’ Breaks...... 336W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 312W Chronic Fatigue Syndrome ...... 339W Carbon Emissions: Public Sector ...... 312W Diabetes ...... 339W Carbon Emissions Reduction Target...... 312W Diabetes: Health Services ...... 340W Climate Change: International Cooperation ...... 312W Diabetes: Young People ...... 340W Electricity...... 313W Diamorphine...... 344W Energy: Meters...... 313W Doctors’ List of Patients ...... 344W Fuel Poverty: Suffolk ...... 314W General Practitioners ...... 344W Green Deal Scheme...... 314W Hospitals: Waiting Lists...... 346W Heating ...... 315W Infant Foods: Marketing...... 347W Renewable Energy...... 315W Local Hospital Closures...... 335W Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs...... 315W Medicine: Research ...... 349W Solar Power...... 316W Monitor: Finance...... 336W Solar Power: Brighton...... 317W NHS: Pensions...... 349W Solar Power: Feed-in Tariffs...... 317W NHS: Standards...... 349W Warm Front Scheme ...... 319W Nutrition...... 349W Obesity...... 350W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Older People ...... 335W AFFAIRS...... 298W Organs: Donors ...... 351W Agriculture: Conditions of Employment...... 298W Palliative Care...... 352W Agriculture: Finance ...... 298W Pancreatic Cancer ...... 352W Col. No. Col. No. HEALTH—continued PRIME MINISTER...... 234W Private Finance Initiative Payments ...... 335W Adam Werritty...... 234W Schools: Sports ...... 352W Bell Pottinger Group ...... 234W Social Services...... 354W Members: Correspondence ...... 235W Surgery...... 354W News International ...... 235W Transplant Surgery: Public Appointments ...... 355W Sir Andrew Cahn...... 235W Winter Pressures: NHS ...... 335W TRANSPORT ...... 254W HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 248W Air Travel Organisers’ Licence...... 254W All Wales School Liaison Core Programme...... 248W Aviation: Security...... 255W Asylum: Libya ...... 248W Aviation: Snow and Ice ...... 255W British Nationality ...... 248W Aviation: Standards...... 255W Crimes of Violence ...... 249W Bus Services ...... 255W Harassment...... 249W Departmental Design...... 256W Members: Correspondence ...... 250W Departmental Pay ...... 256W Metropolitan Police Service...... 250W Disability Aids: Visual Impairment...... 257W Offenders: Ex-servicemen ...... 250W Driving: Licensing...... 257W Police Community Support Officers: Manpower... 250W Emergencies ...... 258W Police: Forensic Science ...... 251W Halton Curve ...... 259W Police: Pensions ...... 251W Large Goods Vehicles ...... 259W Police: Redundancy ...... 251W Motorways: Speed Limits ...... 259W Police: Working Hours...... 252W Parking: Westminster...... 260W Primates: Research...... 252W Ports ...... 260W Rape...... 252W Railways: Overcrowding...... 260W Sexual Offences: Children...... 252W Railways: Shrewsbury ...... 261W Southern Investigations ...... 254W Road Traffic Control...... 261W Stalking...... 254W Roads: Accidents ...... 261W Speed Limits: Association of Chief Police Officers ...... 261W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 275W Thameslink Railway Line: Rolling Stock ...... 262W Argentina...... 275W Transport: Passengers ...... 262W Argentina: EU Aid...... 275W Transport: Snow and Ice ...... 262W Argentina: World Bank...... 276W Vehicle and Operator Services Agency ...... 262W Burundi: Overseas Aid...... 276W Democratic Republic of Congo: Elections ...... 276W TREASURY ...... 230W Departmental Equal Opportunities...... 277W Andrew Cahn...... 230W Departmental Flags ...... 278W Banking: Business ...... 230W Departmental Judicial Review...... 278W Biofuels: Wales...... 231W Developing Countries: Biodiversity...... 278W Capital Investment: Northern Ireland...... 231W Developing Countries: Climate Change ...... 279W Carbon Reduction Commitment...... 231W Developing Countries: Females...... 279W Devolution: Northern Ireland...... 231W Developing Countries: Food ...... 280W Excise Duties: Fuels ...... 232W Developing Countries: Politics and Government.... 281W Loans: Northern Ireland...... 232W East Africa: Disease Control...... 281W Money Advice Service: Standards...... 232W East Africa: Droughts...... 281W Public Expenditure...... 233W Libya: Elections ...... 282W Revenue and Customs: Correspondence ...... 233W Overseas Aid...... 282W VAT: Overpayments ...... 233W Somalia: Asylum...... 283W VAT: Prescriptions ...... 233W Somaliland: Sovereignty...... 283W VAT: Tax Rates and Bands...... 234W

JUSTICE...... 283W WALES...... 223W Birmingham Prison...... 283W Broadband ...... 223W Civil Disorder ...... 284W Electricity...... 223W Civil Proceedings...... 285W Legal Aid Scheme ...... 223W Crime: Victims ...... 285W World War I ...... 223W Criminal Injuries Compensation: Sexual Offences . 286W Departmental Internet ...... 287W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 263W Drugs: Rehabilitation...... 288W Atos Healthcare ...... 263W Employment Tribunals Service...... 288W Child Maintenance and Enforcement HM Courts and Tribunals Service: ICT ...... 289W Commission...... 263W Official Solicitor and Public Trustee Office: Child Support Agency ...... 263W Freedom of Information...... 290W Children: Maintenance ...... 264W Prisoners: Ex-servicemen ...... 290W Disability Living Allowance...... 265W Prisoners: Foreign Nationals...... 290W Learning Disability ...... 266W Prisoners: Repatriation ...... 295W Mobility...... 267W Prisoners’ Release: Plymouth ...... 290W Personal Independence Payment...... 267W Probation: Ex-servicemen ...... 295W Universal Credit...... 268W Supreme Court: Public Appointments ...... 295W Winter Fuel Payments...... 268W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Tuesday 29 November 2011

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CONTENTS

Tuesday 22 November 2011

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 139] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Health

Coastguard Modernisation [Col. 161] Statement—(Mike Penning)

Road Safety (No. 2) [Col. 178] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Bob Russell)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Opposition Day [12th allotted day - Second Part (Half Day)] Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments [Col. 182] Motion—(Mr Dodds)—on a Division, negatived

Judiciary and Fundamental Rights [Col. 233] Motion to take note of EC document—(Mr Lidington)—agreed to

Daylight Saving Bill (Money) [Col. 256] Motion—(Mr Prisk)—agreed to

Schengen Governance [Col. 267] Motion—(Stephen Crabb); Division deferred till Wednesday 30 November

Petition [Col. 268]

Immigration (Stranraer/Cairnryan) [Col. 269] Debate on moiton for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Horse Racing (Funding) [Col. 1WH] Human Rights (Colombia) [Col. 24WH] Pension Protection Fund [Col. 48WH] Incapacity Benefit (North-East) [Col. 57WH] Music and the Economy [Col. 65WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 17WS]

Petition [Col. 1P] Presented Petition

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 223W] [see index inside back page]