Thursday Volume 534 27 October 2011 No. 215
HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)
Thursday 27 October 2011
£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 447 27 OCTOBER 2011 448
that the Labour party now criticises us for remedying House of Commons the problems that it created through its regulation procedures? Thursday 27 October 2011 Mr Davey: During the passage of the Postal Services Act, we heard a lot of criticism of the regulatory regime The House met at half-past Ten o’clock that the Labour party put in place. We put in a much stronger regime, which has been greatly welcomed.
PRAYERS Manufacturing
2. Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): What steps [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] he is taking to support manufacturing. [76850]
BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS 14. Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con): What steps he is taking to support manufacturing. [76867]
BANK OF IRELAND (UK) PLC BILL 15. Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con): What steps he is taking to support manufacturing. [76868] Bill read the Third time and passed. The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Vince Cable): As part of rebalancing the British economy, we are taking steps to support manufacturing Oral Answers to Questions in the UK by encouraging high levels of business, innovation, investment, exports and technical skills. I set out our strategy for achieving that in a talk to Policy Exchange yesterday. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Mr Jones: From recent discussions with several The Secretary of State was asked— representatives of our largest manufacturing companies, it is apparent that they are now looking actively to bring more UK supply manufacture back to our country, but Royal Mail they seem to question whether some of our small and medium-sized enterprises have sufficient capacity or 1. Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) investment to meet the growth in demand in this area. (Lab): What recent progress he has made on securing What can the Government do to help facilitate the right private sector investment in Royal Mail. [76849] conditions to help some of our SMEs meet this increasing demand? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): As I made Vince Cable: The hon. Gentleman is right to say that clear during the passage of the Postal Services Act 2011, there is a supply chain issue. We are hearing good news we are taking a staged approach to its implementation. from the automobile and aerospace sectors, with the Before decisions can be taken on private sector investment, large primes, such as Tata, Rolls-Royce and Airbus, the regulatory regime must be reformed and the making large investments. However, we also need to Government must secure approval to take on Royal attract back the supply chains, which is already happening, Mail’s historical pension deficit and restructure its balance particularly in the car industry. We have bodies that sheet. Progress is being made in these areas, alongside co-operate with industry in both those sectors: the Royal Mail’s progress with its modernisation plan. Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford Michael Connarty: I thank the Minister for his reply. and Stortford (Mr Prisk) chairs one of them and I chair Will he therefore tell the House exactly how much the the other. We are therefore working actively with industry Government value the assets in the Post Office pension to attract the supply chains back to the UK. fund at this moment, how much will be transferred to the Treasury and what will be left in the assets of the Nigel Mills: Will the Secretary of State join me in pension fund thereafter? congratulating the work of the high-value manufacturing technology and innovation centre, which has had a Mr Davey: The hon. Gentleman will know, having display in Parliament for the past two days, and especially been in the House a long time, that we would not make a business in my constituency, Advanced Composites, a valuation while working with the European Commission on the work that it does as part of that? Does he agree to secure state aid clearance. Until we get that, those with the strategy and aims that it has set out, especially sorts of calculations would be completely inappropriate. on having a strategy for how we can get manufacturing back to being 20% of gross domestic product by 2020? Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): As part of the deregulation process prior to the sale, we can expect a reasonable rise Vince Cable: Yes, we are fighting a historical trend, in stamp prices, which are currently the second lowest in because, under the previous Government, and certainly Europe, despite the fact that we have the highest delivery over the past decade, manufacturing contracted as a specification. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is ironic share of the economy more rapidly than in any other 449 Oral Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Oral Answers 450 western country and we lost a third of the work force. Vince Cable: Infrastructure is certainly a key to recovery, We have to retrieve that, and one of the main ways of and it is absolutely right to put it on a sustainable basis. doing so is through promoting innovation. The first The Chief Secretary announced a programme for urgent innovation centre, as my colleague rightly points out, is modest-scale infrastructure projects a few weeks ago, the manufacturing technology innovation centre, which and other infrastructure projects will be announced in has seven campuses. Composites is one of those core the regional growth fund imminently. technologies being developed, which I very much welcome. Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab): In answer to Graham Evans: Does my right hon. Friend agree that questions to his Department in June, the Secretary of if we are effectively to support manufacturing, we need State said: to ensure that our future work force have the necessary “There is rapid growth now beginning to take place in skills? Will he join me in welcoming the approval of manufacturing and exports.”—[Official Report, 9 June 2011; Vol. 529, c. 276.] Sandymoor free school in my constituency, which is receiving support from the nearby Daresbury science Given that figures from the Office for National Statistics and innovation campus and which will help to achieve confirm that manufacturing output fell last quarter and this goal? given that yesterday’s CBI industrial trends survey showed sentiment from manufacturers deteriorating, order books Vince Cable: Skills are obviously critical, and no emptying and export prospects sharply declining for a doubt my hon. Friend the Minister for Further Education, second successive quarter, will the Minister update his Skills and Lifelong Learning will say more about the assessment of four months ago? Does he think that any big increase in the number of apprenticeships shortly. I aspect of Government policy needs to change to ensure am sure that the school in my hon. Friend’s constituency that manufacturing drives forward economic recovery will contribute to this at an early stage of development. and growth? Apprentices are a real success story and we are certainly Vince Cable: The hon. Gentleman is right to say that going to build on it. business conditions are difficult, but over the last two years manufacturing has increased significantly faster Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): One way to than the rest of the economy, as have exports. That is increase manufacturing growth would undoubtedly be the direction that we need to pursue. Given that for the Business Secretary to turn his attention to Markham manufacturing is predominately an export-based industry, Vale. I cadged about £32 million off the then Chancellor he will understand that the difficulties facing our major of the Exchequer in the Labour Government to flatten export markets in the European Union are creating the pit tips and build a vast industrial estate straight off problems for manufacturers and manufacturing confidence, junction 29A on the M1, and what has happened? but we will hit our way through them. There have been grey, miserable clouds hanging over Markham Vale ever since this tin-pot Government came Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): I thank the Secretary of to power. Why don’t you pull your finger out? We were State for visiting SABIC Petrochemicals in my constituency spending money while the sun was shining; there is to hear about the cost issues for energy-intensive none being spent now. manufacturing industries. When can those industries expect an announcement about a mitigation package? Vince Cable: I would certainly be happy to visit Markham Vale at some point and talk those things Vince Cable: I think they expect an announcement through with the hon. Gentleman. His area has a local very soon. The visit was extremely constructive, and enterprise partnership and has had an opportunity to my colleague and others have rightly emphasised to put in a bid for an enterprise zone or the regional us that energy-intensive industries are a key part of growth fund. I do not know what it has done, but I am manufacturing recovery. It would be totally counter- certainly happy to talk to him. productive economically and environmentally if they were driven overseas. We are determined that that should I know that the hon. Gentleman is a long-standing not happen, and a package of measures will be announced Member and I am sure that he has followed the changes soon. in attitudes towards manufacturing in this House under different Governments. He will be interested in the Science Funding leader of the Labour party’s new distinction between “predators” and “producers”. What is troubling a lot of 3. Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): What recent us on the Government Benches is why a party of dinosaurs assessment he has made of the level of science funding is so opposed to predators. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman over the comprehensive spending review period. [76853] can explain. The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David Willetts): Funding for science and research programmes Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): Companies in my has been protected with a flat cash ring-fenced settlement constituency that manufacture construction products, of £4.6 billion for each of the next four years. We can be quarry materials for concrete or build materials for the proud of our scientific research, and that is why the construction industry have very much welcomed the coalition is backing it. plan announced by my right hon. Friend the Member for Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls) to bring forward Phil Wilson: Although I welcome the investment in infrastructure projects in order to increase employment the technology and innovation centres, one of which is and build manufacturing capacity in the United Kingdom. in my constituency, will the Minister explain to the Given falling growth and rising unemployment, would House why the Government have continued to cut the it not be prudent for the Business Secretary to support science budget by 12% overall when Germany, one of that plan? our main competitors, has increased its budget by 8%? 451 Oral Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Oral Answers 452
Mr Willetts: No party at the last election promised plans to provide practical support to exporters over the complete protection for the BIS budget. In fact, in its next five years. I have undertaken a number of visits last economic statement in December 2009, the hon. overseas to promote British business to countries including Gentleman’s party committed itself to cutting £600 China, India, Brazil, Japan, South Korea, Turkey and million from the higher education and science and Romania, and next week I shall be in south-east Asia research budgets. We, by contrast, are offering complete promoting British trade. cash protection for that budget. Pauline Latham: Britain is increasingly becoming a Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): The scientists centre of excellence for high-tech, high-value manufacturing to whom I speak are concerned not only about the exports. In Derbyshire, we have some great high-tech amount of money available now but about the levels of exporters ranging from Rolls-Royce, which my right capital funding and the long-term security of funding hon. Friend knows all about, to Pektron, an innovative, running many years into the future. While I welcome family-owned electronics manufacturer. What more can the announcement of funding for companies such as my right hon. Friend do to showcase those exceptional Babraham, what assurances can the Minister provide firms and remind people up and down the country and that he will try to get more capital funding from the internationally that high-tech British goods are in demand Treasury and to ensure good, long-term security so that everywhere, and that that needs to continue? scientists will know how much funding there will be for the next decade? Vince Cable: Yes, there are many successful British exporters. Over the past year, exports have grown on a Mr Willetts: Of course, we have been able in the past year-to-year basis by about 9%. Where we have fallen year to fund six of the eight capital projects that the down historically is that British small and medium-sized science community identified as being the most important. companies have not been as involved in exporting as the We think that that has been a considerable achievement larger enterprises such as Rolls-Royce. One of the main in tough times, and we will continue to try to secure commitments in the UKTI strategy is to concentrate financing for other capital programmes in the future. help and resources on those companies, which would undoubtedly help the specialist company in my hon. Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): Friend’s constituency. The Secretary of State recently said that all long-term economic growth was linked to innovation, yet one year Alun Cairns: It is good to note that exports have risen after he claimed to have protected the science budget, to their highest level since records began, and I note the the independent Campaign for Science and Engineering Government’s plans to double our exports to Brazil by has revealed that its budget has been slashed by 12%, as 2015. Following the Foreign Affairs Select Committee my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) report, what specific action is my right hon. Friend mentioned. The Minister’s own Department says that taking to help British exporters to overcome the language cuts to science will damage our world-leading position, issues and bureaucratic barriers that might stand in the yet businesses up and down the country are being way of achieving that? denied the innovation support that they need, and the shambles in university funding makes it harder for Vince Cable: I went to Brazil precisely to answer that universities to provide science places. If innovation is question. My hon. Friend is quite right to say that we the engine of growth, why is the Secretary of State are starting from a weak position. As a result of neglect doing so much damage to it? in the past, Britain’s share of imports into Brazil is far lower than those of Germany, France and Italy, for Mr Willetts: We in the coalition are absolutely committed example, and we must remedy that. We are putting in a to the importance of science and research, and we are major effort in Brazil, through UKTI, to capture some strengthening the links between science and research of the opportunities, particularly those that are arising and the business community. We are also offering cash from the expansion of the oil and gas industries there. protection for the science budget across all main current expenditure, which the hon. Lady’s party never did in Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): The government. The very source that she has just cited, the Secretary of State has mentioned some exotic locations, Campaign for Science and Engineering, only a fortnight but he did not mention the fact that he came to Huddersfield ago two weeks ago. Did he learn from that visit that export “welcomed Chancellor George Osborne’s announcement that manufacturing is at the heart of getting the biggest £195m of new investment will be spent on science and engineering.” bang for our buck, and that manufacturing for export counts for more in regard to the balance of trade? He Exports talks about innovation and universities, but we do not want just seven—we want 133 innovation units. 4. Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): What steps he is taking to promote British exports. [76854] Vince Cable: As a Yorkshireman myself, I would hesitate to call Huddersfield an overseas market, but it 13. Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): What is certainly an outstanding centre of excellence. I enjoyed steps he is taking to promote British exports. [76866] my visit there. We visited David Brown, one of the recipients of regional growth fund money and a very The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and successful manufacturing exporter. I would also commend Skills (Vince Cable): My Department is supporting going further up the valley to Todmorden, where there British exports through UK Trade & Investment. Its is a brilliant British casting and forging company working strategy, which was launched in May 2011, sets out flat out in our major export markets. 453 Oral Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Oral Answers 454
Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation (PC): UKTI has no presence in Wales, so what discussions and Skills, the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford has the right hon. Gentleman had with the Welsh (Mr Prisk) assured The Times that due diligence on the Government to ensure that UKTI is doing its best to bids had taken an average of six weeks. These bids have promote Welsh exports? all been waiting six months. Will the Secretary of State tell us when the bidders will get their promised money, Vince Cable: Of course the Welsh Government, as a as all these continued growth prospects have been put at devolved Government, have more responsibilities of risk because his Department has been asleep at the wheel? their own in this field, but Wales is part of the UK and I will do my best to work with my Welsh Government Vince Cable: I definitely think we should put the colleagues to promote exports. I have already talked to bunting out for the regional growth fund. As I explained the Secretary of State about getting more Welsh businesses in my first answer to this question, more than half of all represented on UKTI missions and on projects of that these projects are now under way. Factories have been kind. built; jobs have been created—that is what it is about. As was made clear at the outset and as Lord Heseltine Regional Growth Fund made clear a few days ago, the release of funding is a later stage in the process when due diligence has been 5. Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): What recent completed. Are the Labour Front-Bench team seriously assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the arguing that we should dispense with controls over the regional growth fund. [76855] spending of public money in the private sector? I know they did that in government, but we are not going to The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and do it. Skills (Vince Cable): In April we announced that 50 bids had been successful as part of round 1 of the regional Manufacturing Skills growth fund, receiving a conditional allocation of £450 million, which will deliver 27,000 new or safeguarded 6. Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): What steps his jobs and close to 100,000 jobs in supply chains. More Department is taking to promote manufacturing skills. than half these projects have already started, and successful [76858] bidders will receive funding as due diligence is completed. Announcements on the second larger round are imminent. The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Ian Lavery: There have been conflicting reports about Learning (Mr John Hayes): We are promoting the Department’s performance on the regional growth manufacturing skills with success. Provisional figures fund and what has been settled as a result of it. Will the show substantial growth, with 47,020 apprenticeship right hon. Gentleman tell us how many applications programme starts in engineering and manufacturing have come from Northumberland, how many of them technologies in 2010 alone. That is an increase of 20%. have been successful and how many have received any The development of advanced and higher level form of payment to date? apprenticeships and the roll-out of the “see inside manufacturing” initiative will build on that success. Vince Cable: I cannot tell him off the cuff how many companies in Northumberland have received regional Stuart Andrew: I congratulate my hon. Friend on the growth fund money. I know that the north-east was increase in the number of apprenticeships that was the most substantial recipient in the first round. I announced today, which demonstrates a real commitment believe that several—in fact, the majority—of those on the part of the Government and employers to training projects are proceeding, and they will create jobs in the next generation. Companies such as ATB Morley, in Northumberland. my constituency, and Airedale International are crying out for a skilled work force. Will my hon. Friend elaborate Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con): We in on how apprenticeships can help to provide the training South Norfolk were very pleased to see the Secretary of skills that such companies need? State visiting Group Lotus, one of the country’s highest technology companies, which he described as “the best Mr Hayes: Apprenticeships are, of course, jobs. They of British”. Does he agree that the regional growth fund give people a chance to learn in the workplace. They would be seen as even more effective if Lotus’s high-quality provide individuals with a chance to gain the skills that bid were successful? they need and that fuel social mobility, they provide companies with a chance to gain the skills that they Vince Cable: I think my colleague is disarmingly need in order to prosper, and they provide Britain with tempting me to commit some indiscretion here. I have a chance to become a more cohesive, successful and been to Lotus, but we did not discuss the regional prosperous nation. growth fund bid. It is an outstanding company, and I am certainly aware that it has put in a bid. Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab): When the Minister has a moment, will he reflect on Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab): Well, early-day motion 2218, which seeks to expose six British why do we not put the bunting out? Six months after construction companies that are threatening to tear up 45 regional growth fund bids were submitted, only three the national pay agreement for skilled electricians and have got the money, so there are only 42 to go. Perhaps thus trying to de-skill the construction industry? Perhaps the Secretary of State could tell us how many people in in the fullness of time he will give us a written response BIS it takes to change a light bulb. However, on 17 October, expressing his view of those actions. 455 Oral Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Oral Answers 456
Mr Hayes: I should be happy to do that. The hon. Mr Prisk: It is nice to have the hon. Gentleman back Gentleman has made an interesting point, and I will on planet Earth. It appears that he has been away from certainly consider doing what he suggests. Moreover, I it for a long time. We have heard about the work that the should be happy to meet him and anyone he wants to Government are doing on apprenticeships, we have seen bring to my Department, with my officials, so that we the investment in infrastructure, and there is a positive can take the matter further. story to tell. Why cannot the Labour party understand that? BAE Systems Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD): Very much on planet Earth, there are many sites 7. Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): What steps his that are not being developed but could be. Will the Department is taking in response to recent job losses Minister talk to his colleagues in the Department for announced by BAE Systems. [76859] Communities and Local Government and the Treasury to ensure that financial incentives are offered to the The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation owners of sterile land so that it can return to use and be and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): The Government’s first developed, thus providing jobs in the construction industry? priority is to support the individuals whose jobs may be at risk. To that end, the Jobcentre Plus rapid response Mr Prisk: My right hon. Friend has made an eminently service is providing support, training and careers advice. sensible suggestion. This is why we are adopting a positive The Government are also working with the Lancashire approach, and trying to ensure that when Departments and the Humber local enterprise partnerships on two have redundant land, we can return it to use. potential new enterprise zones to support local economies. Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): Britain’s construction Andrew Stephenson: What role does my hon. Friend industry needs a lion at the wheel, but instead we have a think that group training associations can play in tortoise that is sitting still while building sites and redeploying and supporting those who have lost their people in our construction industry are made redundant. jobs? In Lancashire we have Training 2000, the biggest However, there is an alternative. The shadow Chancellor’s GTA in the country, which is already working closely five-point plan will produce projects that will enable us with Rolls-Royce and other businesses that are currently to get the industry moving. For instance, a VAT cut to recruiting. 5% on home improvements and repairs and maintenance is a targeted approach that is supported by the Federation Mr Prisk: The Government greatly value the role of of Small Businesses. Will the Government take serious group training associations. They are crucial, which is action to get the construction industry moving? why we are supporting them through the growth innovation fund. However, I note the individual case that my hon. Mr Prisk: As I recall, the tortoise beat the hare. Friend has raised. Stem Cell Research Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): What is the reason for the reversal of the decision on the Lancashire enterprise 9. Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab): zones in September? In August a bid had been turned What steps he plans to take to protect stem cell down, and job losses had been agreed by the Ministry research in the UK following the decision of the of Defence in July. That sequence of events suggests European Court of Justice to prohibit the patenting of that the MOD was not talking to BIS, and that BIS inventions based on human stem cells; and if he will made a reckless decision in August which was overturned make a statement. [76862] by the Treasury. Can the Minister explain? The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David Mr Prisk: There was a real problem for the workers in Willetts): We are—[Interruption.] We are carefully that area, and we responded positively by providing the considering the impact of the ruling—[Interruption.] additional two enterprise zones. I hope the hon. Gentleman welcomes that. Mr Speaker: Order. I think we have had enough references to animals. Let us now experience the product Construction Industry of one of the brains of the Minister.
8. John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): What Mr Willetts: I will do my best, Mr Speaker. steps his Department is taking to support the construction As I was saying, we are carefully considering the industry. [76860] impact of the ruling on current UK patent practice. The Technology Strategy Board currently funds 15 studies Mr Prisk: The Government are acting positively to involving human stem cells, two of which use human strengthen the industry by reform the planning system, embryonic stem cells. The TSB and the research councils modernising public sector procurement, and producing will continue to support and fund research on stem cells the first national infrastructure plan, which will unlock from all sources, including embryonic. up to £200 billion of both public and private investment. Graham Stringer: That was an interesting reply, because John Cryer: Can we return to planet Earth? Since the leading scientists in the field have called the decision election 65,000 jobs have gone in construction, no one everything from “devastating” to “appalling”. They is training apprentices, and public sector contracts have believe this work will move to South Korea and Canada, dried up. Do we not need a bit more action? and that potential cures for people suffering from 457 Oral Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Oral Answers 458 degenerative diseases will be developed later, if they are Stephen Lloyd: I thank the Minister for his answer. It developed at all. I simply do not understand the Minister’s is clear that the Government are taking an active lead answer, and I would like more details on how he is going on growing and supporting our entrepreneurs. Will he to stop this work going abroad. therefore join me in supporting the Federation of Small Businesses in its fantastic real-life entrepreneur campaign, Mr Willetts: I agree with the hon. Gentleman that as that support will demonstrate yet again just how this research is very important in tackling fundamental committed the coalition Government are to the human illnesses such as Parkinson’s, and that is why we entrepreneurial spirit in UK plc? will continue to support it. We are assessing the implications of the ECJ ruling. It is important that stem cells can be Mr Prisk: Absolutely. That is an excellent campaign derived in a variety of ways, and embryonic stem cells by the FSB, and it shows why we are focused on matters are only one source of stem cells. That is why we need that concern those real-life entrepreneurs: cutting their more time to assess the implications of this judgment. costs; tackling red tape; and of course improving access to finance. There is a lot more to do, but they know that George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): I am sure the we are on their side. Minister agrees that stem cell science is one of Britain’s great strengths. The feeling within the industry is that Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): Another excellent this Government are putting their money where their campaign from the FSB and also the Federation of mouth is. In contrast to the accusations and nonsense Master Builders is the “Cut the VAT” campaign, which coming from Opposition Members that we are not supports a cut in VAT on home improvements to 5%. investing in science, the recent £195 million investment Such a move would also be good for entrepreneurs. Will in graphene and supercomputing and the protection of the Minister support that campaign? the science budget amounts to a real growth strategy. Mr Prisk: We are doing a lot of things to help small Mr Willetts: We are totally committed to investing in businesses. I notice that, although the Labour party is life sciences in Britain, and let me give a practical now saying that such things should be done, in 13 years example of how we can cut the burden of regulation to in government it did not do it. Why not? bring this industry forward: we have committed to reducing the time it takes to start a clinical trial from Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con): I congratulate over 600 days—the period we inherited from the previous the Minister on all the help he is giving entrepreneurs. Government—to 70 days in future under us. Could he find time in his busy schedule to visit the many entrepreneurs in Brighton and Hove? Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): My understanding is that the Court’s judgment does not Mr Prisk: I will be delighted—my diary secretary stop research into embryonic stem cells, but that it does may not be—to respond positively to my hon. Friend’s mean that scientists will not be able to patent anything request. worth while, and that therefore the intellectual property is likely to go abroad, as my hon. Friend the Member Seaside Towns for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) said. What are the Government going to do to stop that happening, because this research is vital for people with 11. Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD): What recent degenerative diseases? discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on support for seaside town economies. [76864] Mr Willetts: The hon. Lady is right: this is vital research. The crucial points, however, are that the research is taking place using stem cells from a range of sources, The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation not just embryonic stem cells, and we are continuing to and Skills (Greg Clark): My two Departments, the assess how much of the research and development that Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the currently takes place in Britain would be affected by Department for Communities and Local Government, this judgment. have regular discussions with the Treasury about support for economies. My hon. Friend will know that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury has announced the coastal Entrepreneurship communities fund, which will be available from April.
10. Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): What steps he Mr Sanders: Two Select Committee reports have is taking to encourage entrepreneurship. [76863] identified that one of the main problems facing coastal communities is poor transport links. May I invite the The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation Minister to visit the warm and welcoming English and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): The Government are riviera to see the challenges and opportunities there, committed to making the United Kingdom the best which could be fully addressed by better transport place in Europe to start, finance and grow a business. links? Steps being taken include boosting tax relief, getting the banks to increase lending to small firms and scrapping Greg Clark: A visit to the English riviera is an enticing regulations from this Department alone that would invitation, and I will be delighted to go there. My hon. have cost small and medium-sized enterprises more Friend is right to say that connectivity is a concern for than £315 million every year. all coastal communities, and I know that he is waiting 459 Oral Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Oral Answers 460 for a decision on the south Devon link road. I cannot MPharm Qualification pre-empt that, but I think I will go by train this time to avoid any delays. 16. Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): If he will consider changing the MPharm qualification from Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): Will level6tolevel7. [76869] the right hon. Gentleman place in the Library a copy of the advice he received from BIS officials—not DCLG The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David officials—on the historical disadvantages that seaside Willetts): The Government do not determine the academic towns and cities face, particularly those relating to levels of higher education qualifications. The Higher access and business failures? Clearly the advice was not Education Funding Council funds the MPharm as an forceful enough, because neither Torbay nor Plymouth undergraduate master’s degree, to the benefit of 10,000 was successful in this round of bids for local enterprise students a year who are entitled to teaching grants and zones, as he well knows. student support.
Greg Clark: As the hon. Lady knows, we have had Charlie Elphicke: I thank the Minister for that answer. discussions about Plymouth. I very much hope that all My constituent Louis Leir has done an undergraduate the representatives of Plymouth will join in putting degree and wants to do a MPharm, but unfortunately it together an area to attract business that is very much in is classified as an undergraduate-level degree. He is keeping with the enterprise zone proposal. Of course I therefore caught by the equivalent or lower qualifications will put together a package of the research and make it —ELQ—policy and is unable to get help with tuition available to her. fees. Will Ministers give further considerations to the issues relating to master’s level qualifications? The MPharm Scientific Research truly is one of those, as most of the House probably recognises. 12. Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): How much capital expenditure for scientific research his Department has Mr Willetts: I congratulate my hon. Friend on his allocated in 2011-12 to date. [76865] ingenuity in pursuing that constituency case, about which we have corresponded. Just as he was with the The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David Pfizer case at Sandwich, he is a persistent hon. Member Willetts): I have recently announced that the Department and I congratulate him on that. However, we believe will be investing an additional £145 million in high- that if we were to take the ingenious approach he performance computing. That brings the Department’s proposes, it might mean that the 10,000 undergraduates total capital spend in science and research to £793 million currently benefiting from financial support lose it. for 2011-12. Apprentices Jane Ellison: I thank the Minister for that reply. Britain has always been great at discovering and inventing 18. Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) things, but we need to address how to commercialise (Con): What assessment he has made of the difficulties some of that cutting-edge research. Will he therefore faced by apprentices aged 19 and over in obtaining comment on what the Government are doing to ensure adequate funding for level 3 qualifications. [76871] that we bring that research, and those discoveries and inventions, to market in the future? The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning (Mr John Hayes): The Government are investing Mr Willetts: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and significantly in adult apprenticeships, with earmarked that is why we are setting up the network of six technology investment of £679 million in 2011-12. We rely on and innovation centres. It is why we are particularly employers coming forward to make places available and backing the campuses in Norwich, Babraham, Harwell many more are doing so every day, week and month. and Daresbury, which bring together scientific research There were 114,900 starts in 2010-11—nearly twice as and business applications. It was also the reason for the many as in the previous year—for those aged over 19. investment of £50 million in the application of graphene to business purposes, which was announced only a few Mr Stuart: The Minister not only champions weeks ago. apprenticeships but facilitates their delivery and I congratulate him on that. May I ask him to consider Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): Does the introducing a flexible three-year contract for young Minister recognise the deep concern in our universities apprenticeships, with a break clause after year 2, so that at the cutting back of their capital programme, in there is an equalisation of funding for young apprenticeships contrast with what is happening in other countries, on courses both before and after their 19th birthdays? which will put us at a significant competitive disadvantage? Mr Hayes: Knowing my hon. Friend’s expertise and Mr Willetts: The figure that I just gave the House for commitment to this subject, when I saw his question I capital spending on science and research is comparable spoke to my officials and got an interesting response with the figures for capital spending under the ring-fenced from them. I think that if we better estimate at the science budget under the previous Government. So, outset people’s prospects of progression, we may well be even in tough times, we are absolutely maintaining our able to take account of what my hon. Friend says. I commitment to investing in science. invite him, as I did earlier, to come to the Department 461 Oral Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Oral Answers 462 to talk that through and to see what changes we can commerce and the Essex Federation of Small Businesses make to remove any disincentives of the kind to which strongly to oppose the proposals of the Health and he refers. Safety Executive to charge £750-plus to inspect small businesses? Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): The construction industry, the manufacturing sector Mr Prisk: I am very much aware of the consultation and apprenticeships all go hand in hand. Will the Minister that the agency is undertaking on fees and other proposals, confirm that the vast majority of the increase in and I understand the concerns that my hon. Friend apprenticeships in the past year has been in the over-25s voices. Any fees, any proposals, need to be proportionate category? Frankly, that is not doing enough to assist and reasonable. with the serious problem of youth unemployment. Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): Mr Hayes: The hon. Gentleman is right that there Many small businesses in the construction sector would has been a growth in over-25s apprenticeships and he benefit from a cut in VAT to 5%, as has been raised. We will know that the previous Government commissioned heard the Minister’s response; he thinks we are wrong in the Leitch report, which said that that was exactly what calling for that. If he thinks we are wrong, does he think we needed—to upskill and reskill the work force. the Federation of Master Builders, the Builders Merchants Notwithstanding that, however, he will also know that Federation, British Precast and the Modern Masonry there has been remarkable, unprecedented growth in Alliance are wrong as well? 16 to 18 apprenticeships and in 19 to 24 apprenticeships over two years. Contrary to the complaints of the Mr Prisk: The Labour party thought those organisations carpers and the cringers, the whiners and the whingers, were wrong when it was in office. The party needs to the biggest proportion of growth has been at level 3—that realise that it cannot do one thing in government and is A-level equivalent. say another in opposition. [Interruption.] That is its record. Mr Speaker: We always enjoy the lyricism of the Minister. Topical Questions Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): Having recently served a one-year apprenticeship by the side of the Minister T1. [76872] Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con): for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning, I If he will make a statement on his departmental am not surprised by the excellent numbers that were responsibilities. released today on apprenticeships, as his dedication is second to none. May I ask him to say a word on the The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and increase in level 3 apprenticeships, which are equivalent Skills (Vince Cable): My Department has a key role in in qualification to A-levels? supporting the rebalancing of the economy and business to deliver growth while increasing skills and learning. Mr Hayes: My hon. Friend has gone on to other, I am tempted to say greater, things since he served that Jake Berry: I thank my right hon. Friend for that apprenticeship, and he is right to draw attention once answer. I congratulate Ministers on the fantastic again to the increase at level 3, because there were those, apprenticeship numbers that were announced today. largely drawn from the bourgeois left, who looked down With that and the rebalancing of our economy in mind, their noses at practical learning and who thought that and given that in Rossendale and Darwen we have a the most growth would be at level 2, but actually we manufacturing economy, can the Secretary of State tell have facilitated very substantial growth—over 60%—at the House how we are going to make it easier for level 3 as my hon. Friend says. It is a rosy day for the employers in my constituency to take on new apprentices? Government and, much more importantly, a rosy day for Britain. Vince Cable: The hon. Gentleman is right to acknowledge the big increase in apprenticeships, and it is not simply Small Businesses quantity; it is also about quality. Some of the rapid growth that is taking place is in advanced apprenticeships, 19. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): What steps he including in manufacturing, and we welcome that, but plans to take to reduce costs for small businesses. we do not accept that the status quo is adequate. We [76883] want to strip away some of the bureaucratic barriers that hinder companies, particularly small companies, The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and my colleagues are working on that. and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): In these rosy days, in addition to extending small business rate relief and Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): A few years reversing Labour’s planned rise in payroll taxes, we also ago, the Business Secretary was described by the Deputy intend to reduce the burden of financial accounting Prime Minister as an “economic prophet”. So in January, rules. That will save businesses up to £600 million, a when the Secretary of State told the House that third of which will benefit small and medium-sized “…economic growth is now strong. It will become stronger as a enterprises. result of the work that the Government are doing in stabilising finances”—[Official Report, 13 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 429.] Robert Halfon: At a time when many small businesses we listened with interest. Given the performance of the are struggling to thrive in the economic climate, will my economy since January, does the Business Secretary hon. Friend join the campaign of Harlow chamber of believe he has lived up to his billing? 463 Oral Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Oral Answers 464
Vince Cable: May I first warmly congratulate the the Government can do to help, so we will look again at hon. Gentleman on his rapid and considerable promotion? what can be done, based on the experience in London, I will not tempt fate by hoping that he makes a success to promote apprenticeships in the way she describes. of it, but I none the less wish him well. Of course, one advantage that he has in coming into Parliament only T4. [76875] Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): In June, the very recently is that he is not personally responsible for Office of Fair Trading upheld the Which? super- some of the disasters that occurred under his predecessors. complaint about card surcharges, agreeing that they One of our problems is sorting out some of those pose significant detriment to consumers. When will the disasters, not least of which are the massive deficit that Government act to stop people being exploited in this we inherited, a broken banking system, large amounts way? of personal debt and a flat housing market. All those factors explain why it is now very difficult to launch The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, into rapid growth, but we are putting in place the Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): I am grateful rebalancing of the economy and the financial discipline to the hon. Gentleman for his question. We are looking to make that feasible. at the OFT’s powerful report and consulting colleagues in the Treasury, and we will come back to the House in Mr Umunna: I thank the Business Secretary for his due course. kind words, but I wonder when he will take responsibility. In his first speech as Business Secretary, he described T3. [76874] Michael Fallon (Sevenoaks) (Con): In his Department as the “Department for economic growth”. formulating his response to the Beecroft review, will the The truth is that, under his leadership, it has been the Secretary of State bear in mind the interests of hundreds Department for no growth. The economy has stagnated, of thousands of people who are currently locked out of unemployment has soared and confidence has nose- the labour market, particularly youngsters who might dived—and that is all before the effects of the eurozone well be prepared to waive some of the more generous crisis have been felt. Things would be very different if he job protection provisions in return for that vital first changed his policy and adopted a proper plan for start? growth to get demand back again. In January, he thought his policies were working and it turns out he was wrong. Mr Davey: My hon. Friend will know that the Chancellor He has described himself as a Keynesian, but Keynes has announced that we will move the period of unfair famously said: dismissal from one year to two years—I know that my “When the facts change, I change my mind.” hon. Friend welcomes that—which will deal with exactly Why will the Business Secretary not do the same? the point he has made. He will also know that we have an employment law review and a red tape challenge to ensure that we have employment laws in this country Vince Cable: Well, Keynes famously wrote in his that will make our labour market fair and efficient. well-publicised note to Franklin Roosevelt that probably the most useful thing that the Government could do in a depression was keep down long-term interest rates, T5. [76876] Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op): and that is what this Government have done as a result What message do the Government think they are of their fiscal prudence. sending to the thousands of families in this country who are now struggling in debt as a result of payday The hon. Gentleman says that we do not have the loans, by allowing the legal loan sharks not only to policies in place; we have two things in place. We have advise them on employment law, but to swell their policies for financial stability, which we did not have party coffers? when we inherited the economy; and on the other hand we have policies in place to rebalance the economy, to Mr Davey: I was expecting the hon. Lady to thank reinvent manufacturing, which was allowed to decline the Government for putting forward an idea that she catastrophically under the previous Government, and and other Members have been pressing on the Government: to promote exports and business investment—things namely, to launch research on the impact of a cap on that were shamefully neglected when his colleagues the total cost of credit. I am really rather disappointed were in government. in her.
T2. [76873] Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): The Mayor T6. [76877] Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): My of London has had great success in growing the number right hon. Friend will be aware of the Wilson review on of apprenticeships from the low base inherited from his the collaboration between industry and universities. I Labour predecessor by requiring apprentices to be taken am currently working on a project in the west midlands on as a condition of bids for public projects. Will the with local business leaders and universities. Will he Minister look at whether that success could be built on meet industrialists and me when the report is competed and extended to national Government? next year?
The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David Learning (Mr John Hayes): My hon. Friend is absolutely Willetts): I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend, right to draw attention to the remarkable figures in because she is absolutely right that one of our priorities London. Of all the regions, London has seen the biggest is to ensure that the strength of our research base is fed proportionate growth in the number of apprenticeships, through into stronger support for business and greater and I recently had a meeting in the Mayor’s office to business investment, and we look forward to Sir Tim discuss the subject. She is also right that there are things Wilson’s report. 465 Oral Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Oral Answers 466
T7. [76879] Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op): claims to be made to the adjudicator and for reports, of The Secretary of State will be aware that Remploy which the adjudicator will be able to take note, to be put businesses were set up across this country after the into the public domain. second world war to give work to disabled people returning from the war. Those businesses have gone on Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): The for decades and given great work to disabled people. Bank of England’s own data released last week indicate Why are the Government going to axe the programme? that lending by banks to small businesses fell by £2.5 billion in the three months to August. Was not the Secretary of Vince Cable: Certainly we should be doing all we can State right to admit at last that the economy is in a far to support disabled workers. My understanding is that weaker state under this Government than it ever was in those decisions lie with the Department for Work and the last year under Labour? Pensions, but I would be happy to engage or help if there is a problem. Vince Cable: That certainly is not the case, but the hon. Gentleman has a perfectly valid point in relation Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): UK Trade to bank lending. That is absolutely the case, and, as a & Investment has just completed a trade mission to Iraq result of the agreement that we have reached with the for the Erbil international trade fair, of which I was banks, they have—certainly in the first two quarters— privileged to be a part. We had 86 businesses, companies achieved the gross lending objectives that we set them, and educationalists at the British pavilion at the trade but there is a lot more to do. Surveys show that a fair, whereas three years ago we had only one. Will the shortage of credit is a serious problem, and we have to Secretary of State join me in congratulating the UKTI continue to work with the banks and, where necessary, team and our consul-general on their great work during to require them to make credit available to the economy. the mission? Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): Since December 2008, 3,218 tied pubs have closed and 425 free Vince Cable: Yes. UKTI does an excellent job. Like houses have opened, yet the British Beer and Pub all other parts of the Government, it is having to do Association, which speaks for pub companies, continues more with less, but it does so through refocusing and to mislead Ministers and MPs by stating that the opposite strategy. I have not yet been to that country, but I look is actually the case. Do Ministers agree that this discredits forward to doing so. the BBPA and also shows that the Government must stick to their commitment to act on the issue? T8. [76881] Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): Does the Minister of State really think that Mr Davey: My hon. Friend has been a doughty sending a letter to Members whose constituents are campaigner on the subject, and he will know that the affected by the potential redundancies at BAE Systems Business, Innovation and Skills Committee has just stating that those people could move to other parts of undertaken a report on all those issues. The Government the country to get jobs shows any understanding of the are therefore considering it and will respond to it shortly. regional economy and the need for skilled manufacturing If I were tempted into replying to the details of his jobs, particularly in the Humber area? question, I would prejudice that response.
The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): Having withdrawn and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): The letter sets out, first, funding from the UK Resource Centre for Women in help for those individuals on the ground at those sites. Science, Engineering and Technology, will the Secretary Secondly, it refers to making sure that by having the of State tell us which women’s organisations he has new talent retention service we do not lose those skills; contacted to encourage women back into those under- and, thirdly, it refers to making sure that we put enterprise represented areas? zones in place. I have to say that the response I have had from local people has been far more positive, sadly, Mr Willetts: It is important that women are properly than that of Labour Members. represented in engineering and science, and I discuss that issue with a range of groups, so I hope the hon. Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): Many of those who Lady will be encouraged by the fact that we have 26,000 strongly support the Government’s policy to establish a STEMNET ambassadors. Already, we have 40% who grocery adjudicator to curb the bully-boy tactics of are female, but obviously we need to be better. supermarkets will be concerned to ensure that it has the teeth to do the job. Will my hon. Friend the Minister Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): Next month take this opportunity to reassure those supporters of should at last see meaningfully democratic elections in the Government’s policy that a supplier will not be Egypt, but a new democratic Egypt faces a future required to take the risk of making a complaint in order hamstrung by debts from the Mubarak era. Will my to prompt an inquiry by the adjudicator? right hon. Friend ask his officials to conduct an audit of the £100 million owed by Egypt to the Export Credits Mr Davey: I again pay tribute to my hon. Friend, Guarantee Department? because he has been a stalwart campaigner for that change. I am delighted that we were able to publish the Vince Cable: As my hon. Friend knows, there is a draft Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill on 24 May, and mechanism for dealing with official debt, through the that the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee’s Paris Club, but I will certainly undertake to speak to report on it has welcomed our proposals. He will know my colleague, the Secretary of State for International that the proposal is unique, because it allows anonymous Development, to ask what concessional assistance we 467 Oral Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Oral Answers 468 are giving to Egypt. The matter does not directly bear the artist’s resale right. Since then, the art market has on my Department, but I accept that there is a link with quadrupled, and hard-pressed artists have received the promotion of trade. £13 million. The derogation in awarding the artist’s resale right to the estate of dead artists lapses at the end Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): Does the of the year. Will the Secretary of State confirm that Business Secretary believe that tax evasion and tax from January next year it will apply to the estate of avoidance is having a negative impact on economic deceased artists? growth? Vince Cable: No, I cannot confirm that, but I will Vince Cable: Absolutely. I am resolute, and I hope speak to my colleague at the Department for Culture, that my colleagues on the Opposition Benches will work Media and Sport about the impact on the art market, with me in combating both. and how we propose to proceed with that in the European Union. Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills is considering the Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): The success of creation of a public data corporation. Does the Minister apprenticeships is undoubtedly vital to future prosperity accept that making public data openly available can in areas such as the west midlands. Will my hon. Friend facilitate innovation in more ways than can be easily update the House on the progress of the apprenticeship anticipated, benefiting the economy and the country? programme in the west midlands region? Will he meet me and other campaigners to discuss the details of that further? Mr Hayes: I described this as a rosy day for Britain, and it is a rosy day for the west midlands too. The Mr Davey: I am certainly very happy to meet my hon. number of apprenticeship starts in the west midlands is Friend to discuss the issue. He is right to bring attention up by more than a half on 2009-10, which is due in part to this very important innovation by the Government to to the advocacy of excellent Members of Parliament create something called a public data corporation, bringing such as my hon. Friend. together a number of key Government assets to ensure that they are managed efficiently and to put a greater amount of data into the public domain. Several hon. Members rose—
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): One of the Labour Mr Speaker: Order. We must press on because we Government’s great successes was the introduction of have a hectic schedule today. 469 27 OCTOBER 2011 Eurozone Crisis 470
Eurozone Crisis I can confirm to the House today that in the assessment of the European Banking Authority and our own tripartite authorities, no British bank requires additional capital. 11.31 am This is an important expression of confidence in this country’s banking system at a time of global financial The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): stress. EU member states also agreed to co-ordinate I wanted to update the House as early as possible on guarantees of term funding, should they be required, developments in the eurozone overnight, and in the and we have ensured that state aid rules will be applied absence of the Prime Minister as he travels to the properly, and European banks will be restructured if Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting, to report necessary, just as the European Commission demanded on the good progress made at yesterday’s European of the last British Government two years ago. Council. While some would have wanted an even tougher The crisis in the eurozone has caused instability in banking agreement, and even more capital going into financial markets, has greatly undermined confidence Europe’s weak banks, we should welcome what has around the world, and is having a chilling effect on been achieved with this agreement. We now have—unlike economic growth in many countries, including our own. the totally inadequate stress tests of last year—a It is in our overwhelming national interest that a coherent, commitment to significant extra resources for the European comprehensive and lasting solution to the eurozone’s banking system. However, the UK and others insisted problems is found, because the decisive resolution of that that commitment from the whole of the European this crisis would provide the single biggest boost to the Union on banking be conditional on the two other key British economy this autumn, and the break-up of the components of the solution to the crisis that I set out: a euro would be the single greatest threat to our prosperity. reinforced firewall and a resolution of Greek debt. Our view about how to solve the eurozone’s immediate These are both properly matters for the Eurozone, not problems has been clear, consistent and forcibly expressed. the UK—and they are both matters on which progress The Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and I was also made last night. have set it out to the House on a number of occasions: On Greece, a headline agreement was reached to reinforcement, recapitalisation and resolution. First, reduce the Greek debt-to-GDP ratio to 120% by 2020. eurozone member states need to reinforce their bail-out The eurozone will contribute an additional ¤30 billion. fund to create a firewall; secondly, weak European Because the British Government have made sure that banks need to be recapitalised; and thirdly, the unsustainable we are not part of the Greek bailout, none of that extra position of Greece’s debts needs to be resolved. But if ¤30 billion will come from our taxpayers, while private the solution is to last, as I said many months ago, holders of Greek sovereign debt will be asked to accept members of the eurozone also need to address the logic a nominal write-down of 50%. A lot more work is of monetary union by pursuing greater fiscal integration needed to put all this into practice, including detailed within the eurozone, while at the same time we protect negotiations with the private sector—but we said that Britain’s interests. Greece’s debts were unsustainable, and we are pleased We have to improve competitiveness: competitiveness to see a resolution in sight. in the peripheral economies of the eurozone as measured On reinforcing the size of the firewall, the eurozone against the core economies like Germany, and has set out two options that could operate in tandem. competitiveness across the whole European continent One is to provide, from the bail-out fund, insurance on versus the rest of the world. This is the solution of the new debt issued by Eurozone countries; the second is to crisis that we have been advocating for months, and the create special purpose vehicles that can attract resources solution again advocated by the Prime Minister at from private and public investors. In its statement, the yesterday’s European Council. eurozone said that Our view is that last night very good progress was “the leverage effect of both options will vary” made towards solving the immediate crisis—very good but that they could be progress on all fronts. The deal put together is much better than was expected yesterday afternoon. But much “expected to yield around 1 trillion euro”. detail remains unresolved, and having put pressure on We have always believed that the role of the European the eurozone to get this far, we have to keep up the Central Bank is critical, and I welcome the positive pressure to get the details completed. It has started statement made by Mario Draghi, the incoming ECB down the right road; now it must finish the job. president. Let me take each element of last night’s deal in turn Talk of special purpose vehicles has given rise to and say how it affects Britain. First, on recapitalising questions about the involvement of the International banks, we are pleased that the European Council agreed Monetary Fund and major shareholders like the UK. to the proposal hammered out by myself and other As I have said to the House on many occasions, Britain Finance Ministers at the weekend ECOFIN. All major has always been one of the IMF’s largest shareholders European banks will be required to hold at least a and biggest supporters: we helped to create the institution 9% core tier 1 capital ratio by the end of June next year, 60 years ago; the last Government agreed to increase its including marking to market all their exposure to sovereign resources two years ago; and this Government not only debt. The European Banking Authority, based here in ratified that agreement but helped to make the IMF London, assessed that achieving this target means that more representative of the new world economy by banks will require an extra ¤106 billion of capital, and brokering a deal last year that gave countries like China the Council yesterday confirmed that if this cannot be and Brazil a greater say, while securing Britain’s seat on raised privately, Governments will have to step up to the the board. The IMF has been an active participant in plate. the packages put together to support Ireland, Portugal 471 Eurozone Crisis27 OCTOBER 2011 Eurozone Crisis 472 and Greece. It has also been active in extending flexible proved that they can protect Britain’s interests by getting credit lines to Poland and Mexico—neither of which us out of the previous Government’s involvement in the are in the eurozone, of course—as well as supporting eurozone bail-outs, holding down the European Union other countries in central and eastern Europe such as budget increases, and putting into law the guarantee Hungary, Romania and Latvia. Indeed, it currently has that no further powers or competencies can be transferred 53 lending programmes around the world, of which to Brussels without the consent of the British people in only three are in the eurozone. a referendum. The Government will again protect Britain’s Supporting countries that cannot support themselves interests as the discussions on a possible limited treaty is what the IMF exists to do, and there may well be a change begin. We will seek to rebalance the responsibilities case for further increasing the resources of the IMF to between the EU and its member states, which in our keep pace with the size of the global economy. Britain, view have become unbalanced. as a founding and permanent member of its governing Finally, the euro will not find lasting stability until its board, stands ready to consider the case for further peripheral members become more competitive. That resources and contribute, with other countries, if necessary. means credible plans to reduce budget deficits. That Let us remember that support for the IMF does not add commitment was made in the very first section of to our debt or deficit, and that no-one who has ever yesterday’s agreement. However, that involves difficult provided money to the IMF has ever lost that money. decisions on pension ages, business tax rates, welfare But let me be very clear: we are prepared to see an reform and educational standards. Britain, thankfully, increase only in the resources that the IMF makes is not in the euro, but we are taking those difficult available to all the countries of the world. We would not decisions at home, because the ultimate lesson of this be prepared to see IMF resources reserved for use only crisis is that unless a country can pay its way in the by the eurozone. By all means the IMF can use its world and compete around the globe, it will be next in expertise and advice to help the eurozone to create the the firing line. I am determined that our country will special purpose vehicle that it is considering. By all never be in the firing line. means let countries with large foreign currency reserves like China consider putting their own money into the Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): I thank the Chancellor eurozone’s special purpose vehicle—that must be their for coming to the House to make that statement. With decision—but the IMF cannot put its own resources in; the shadow Chancellor in New York, I am responding it can lend only to countries with a programme for on behalf of the Opposition, and I have a number of adjustment. detailed questions. It is good that some agreement has I confirm today that Britain will not put its resources been reached, but with so little detail, many unanswered in either. We do not have a surplus; we have a large questions remain. I hope that the Chancellor can help deficit. We have had to use our resources to recapitalise the House today, because whatever happens in the our banks and to stand behind our currency. An active eurozone will have huge ramifications for British families member of the IMF? Yes. Helping the IMF with advice and businesses. and technical support? Yes. But the IMF contributing First, on the recapitalisation of the banks, is the money to the eurozone bail-out fund? No. And Britain Chancellor confident that the deal announced is sufficient contributing money to the eurozone bail-out fund? No. and that UK banks do not need further recapitalisation? That is Britain’s clear position. Will he keep that under review? What estimates has he We expect eurozone members to use the next few made of the exposure of UK banks to Greek, Italian, days—the next few weeks, at the most—to provide Portuguese and Spanish sovereign debt? Will he confirm much more detail about their plans to increase their that the House of Commons estimates of $3 billion for firewalls and sort out Greek debt. We have made it clear Greece and $17 billion for Italy reflect the current that the sooner that happens, the better it will be for the position for UK banks? Although the agreement states world economy. We must maintain the momentum. that banks and other creditors are invited to accept a This package will not on its own resolve the longer-term 50% loss on Greek sovereign debt, is the Chancellor issues of how to make the euro work more effectively. confident that the vast majority will agree—and if so, Those longer-term issues were addressed yesterday, and by when? there were proposals for greater fiscal integration and On the expansion of the European financial stability mutual control over the budget policies of eurozone facility, does the Chancellor believe that the ¤1 trillion Governments. I have argued that we need to follow the package is sufficient? Does it amount to the “big bazooka” remorseless logic of monetary union, and that involves that the Prime Minister talked about earlier this month? a loss of national sovereignty for countries in the eurozone. Alternatively, will we be back here in a few months’ It is in Britain’s interest that the euro operates more time, which would mean further uncertainty, undermining effectively, provided that the interests of all 27 member confidence, undermining investment and undermining states are properly protected in key areas of European growth? That is the last thing that Britain, or Europe, needs. policy, such as the single market, competition and financial Can the Chancellor explain how the leveraging of the services. We are insistent that our voice will continue to EFSF will work, and when he believes the detail of be heard and our national interests protected. We have credit enhancement and special purpose vehicles will be found allies among the other 10 members of the EU finalised? If the EFSF must also fund bank recapitalisation, that are not in the euro. An important marker was put will it be sufficient to give the markets confidence, and down in Sunday’s European Council conclusions. will there be funds remaining to underpin any sovereign No one pretends that sorting out this situation in a debt crisis and prevent further contagion? satisfactory way will be easy, but it is a necessity. That is Although we have a clear economic interest in the the context in which we should approach potential eurozone sorting out its problems, the interests of British treaty changes. The coalition Government have already taxpayers must be safeguarded. It would have been 473 Eurozone Crisis27 OCTOBER 2011 Eurozone Crisis 474
[Rachel Reeves] EBA and our own authorities confirm that no British bank requires additional capital, which of course is wrong for Britain to pay twice, both through ongoing very good news for us all. temporary EU bail-out funds and through the IMF. If On the hon. Lady’s question about getting private this package is indeed the final and permanent bail-out sector involvement in the write-down of Greek debt, fund, any British role should be through the IMF alone. that is of course one of the key unresolved issues from I heard the Chancellor’s question and answer session last night. We now need to see whether the headline with himself on the IMF, but will he clarify what he said agreement reached on behalf of the private sector can on the radio this morning? He said that the IMF be implemented in practice. I am confident that it can, was not but that is one of the crucial next steps that need to be “going to put additional resources directly into the eurozone, got on with. hypothecated for the eurozone.” The hon. Lady asked about the exposure of the UK Does he believe, though, that there will need to be a banking system and the UK economy to various peripheral further increase in UK contributions to the IMF? Whether economies of Europe. Those figures are published regularly he succeeds in persuading it to describe that as anything by the Bank of England. I do not propose to repeat other than a hypothecated fund is irrelevant. them today, but they are available for everyone to see. On the arrangements for future decision making, the On the question that the hon. Lady asked about the agreement states: overall fund, ¤1 trillion is the number that the eurozone “The President of the Euro Summit will keep non euro-area has put on its firewall. Of course, some said it should be member states closely informed of preparations and outcomes of larger, but it is very significantly larger than what we summits.” had yesterday, which we should welcome. As with private “Closely informed”? Has Britain now been reduced to sector involvement in the Greek deal, we now need to simply receiving a postcard from Brussels? How will the see the details of how the eurozone will create that Chancellor ensure that Britain’s voice, and our vital leverage. It has set out two options that can work side national interest, is heard loud and clear in future by side. One is a kind of first loss insurance on newly negotiations? issued debt, and the second is the special purpose vehicle, by which it hopes to get external private sector On the forthcoming treaty changes, will the Chancellor investment. Of course, it is openly speculating about admit what the Prime Minister was unable to admit getting Chinese money into that. yesterday? Is it now the Government’s policy to seek to repatriate powers as part of those treaty changes? Which The IMF can only lend directly to countries, and ones, and on what timetable? countries with programmes or agreed and negotiated flexible credit lines, which will remain the case. It cannot Finally, is not the missing piece in the agreement the lend into that special purpose vehicle. That is also the lack of any plan for jobs and growth, which were not UK position. We do not think that Britain, with its mentioned at all in the Chancellor’s statement? Is it not deficit, can contribute to the special purpose vehicle. If the case that without growth we cannot solve the debt we were to do so, we would add to our debt, and we do crisis, we cannot solve the banking crisis, and we cannot not think that that is appropriate. We have had to use solve the jobs crisis? At this time, Britain should be our own resources to deal with our own problems in this leading the charge and pushing for a proper plan for country. jobs and growth across Europe. But is not the truth that It is of course crucial that the IMF remains a central this Chancellor cannot do that? With unemployment at economic institution in dealing with the world’s problems, a 17-year high here in Britain, with no growth since last and I urge the hon. Lady, newly appointed as shadow autumn, and with borrowing therefore now set to be Chief Secretary, to reconsider Labour’s position— £46 billion higher than he planned, he is clinging to an [Interruption.] I know that the hon. Member for austerity plan that is failing here in Britain. Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) led the Labour party in With the UK economy flatlining since this time last Committee to vote against the increase in IMF resources, year—before the eurozone crisis of recent months—and which the last Labour Prime Minister negotiated at the with only Greece and Portugal growing more slowly London 2009 summit. Whatever I have said about than Britain, is it not time that we had a plan for jobs him—and I have said quite a few things—I do not think and growth—across Europe, yes, but here in Britain too? that anyone would doubt that the highlight of his premiership was the negotiation of the London 2009 Mr Osborne: I thank the hon. Lady for some of her G20 deal. It is completely astonishing that the Labour questions. Of course, we miss the constructive and party voted against that agreement. consensual approach of the shadow Chancellor. We are As we discuss over the next few months increasing talking about the Bretton Woods institutions, and it the IMF’s resources to deal with all the countries of the turns out that he is at a place called Buttonwood, which world, I urge Labour Members to reconsider their adds to the pantomime feel of Labour’s economic policy. position on that, and also their rather odd position on Let me deal directly with the hon. Lady’s questions. the euro. They seem to be holding out membership of First, of course we keep the capital and liquidity positions the euro—[HON.MEMBERS: “No!”] Well, that is certainly of the British banks under constant review. We would what the Labour leader was doing at the weekend. To be do that in the absence of any European agreement, but in the euro but out of the IMF strikes me as a rather of course we have also participated in the recent work bizarre economic policy at the moment. by the European Banking Authority. We thought it was That brings me to my final point. Britain has been important that that was done at EU level rather than arguing consistently for months that a solution to this eurozone level. I repeat what I said in my statement: the crisis requires recapitalising the banks, reinforcing the 475 Eurozone Crisis27 OCTOBER 2011 Eurozone Crisis 476 firewall and resolving the Greek crisis. We have insisted A mistake made earlier this year, on 21 July, was that that the appropriate issues are discussed at the level of eurozone members put together a deal and then took 27, which is why there have been two European Councils months to implement it and get the detail. He is completely this week, and an ECOFIN. We will continue to argue right to say that yes, we made some good progress for Britain’s national interest as we enter the difficult overnight, but the job is not finished yet. The eurozone discussions ahead on the potential treaty change, on now has to get the detail and reassure the markets that making the euro work, and above all on getting the it has got a grip of the situation. That is where we will growth and jobs that the hon. Lady talks about across continue to exert British pressure. Europe and in this country, by making this continent far more competitive and stopping Britain and Europe Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): In what respects from pricing themselves out of the world economy. does the Chancellor believe, and can he demonstrate, that the proposals for a two-tier Europe and a fiscal Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): Following on union do not represent a constitutional, economic and from the Chancellor’s final remarks, I am sure he would political fundamental change in the relationship between agree that without a restoration of growth in the eurozone, the EU and ourselves? the debt crisis simply cannot be resolved. He has been with his counterparts quite a lot in the past few days. Mr Osborne: If my hon. Friend is referring, as I What evidence has he seen in discussions with them that suspect he is, to the European Union Act 2011, there are the EU has the will to implement the necessary reforms clear procedures in place for establishing whether powers on the supply side of the economy to restore Europe’s or competencies are being transferred from the UK and global competitiveness? this Parliament to Brussels. Those procedures are clearly set out, but I would say that it is in our interests that the Mr Osborne: There is increasing evidence that people euro works. That requires greater fiscal integration within are focused on the structural issues facing the European the eurozone, which works to the benefit of Britain, economy. Indeed, when my hon. Friend looks at the provided that—this is an important proviso—we can agreement issued by the eurozone last night, he will see continue to ensure that our voice is heard on issues that that when it refers to Spain and Italy, it stresses the are for the 27 members, such as the single market, importance not just of getting their budget deficits competition policy and financial services. That is what down, but of plans to increase the pension age and we will be fighting hard for in the coming months. make labour legislation more flexible and competitive—all the sorts of things that this Government are pursuing Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): I remain wholly here in Britain, although every one of those measures unconvinced that the euro can survive in its current form, has been opposed by the Labour party. unless the weaker countries are permitted to recreate their own currencies and devalue. They currently face permanent deflation and permanent handouts from Germany. That Mr Alistair Darling (Edinburgh South West) (Lab): is no future for them, and no future for Europe. Does the Chancellor agree that one reason why the bank recapitalisation worked three years ago was that Mr Osborne: The hon. Gentleman has consistently we were able to provide precisely the sort of detail made that argument for at least as long as I have been a required to reassure markets that we were taking the Member of the House of Commons, and longer still. necessary action? When can we expect to hear, for He probably takes some comfort in the fact that events example, exactly how much Greek debt is to be written over the past decade have tended to reinforce the views down, and which banks in continental Europe will that he has expressed, but I would say this: it is in require additional funds from Governments or other Britain’s interest that we make the euro work. The sources? When can we expect to hear more detail about disorderly break-up of the euro, or any break-up of the the rescue fund? In relation to that, can he let us know euro, would be an enormous economic blow for this whether there is a commitment on the part of the country. Forty per cent. of our trade is with the eurozone. eurozone to provide real cash—or are we looking at a sophisticated financial instrument of the sort that might If we set aside the arguments that we will have this have contributed to the problems in the first place? autumn and next year about the domestic effects of the Government’s policies—the Government will argue that they promote growth, and the Opposition will argue Mr Osborne: I fear that we are looking at a sophisticated that they undermine it—everyone in the House would financial instrument here. However, it is clear that Germany accept that instability in the eurozone has had a chilling and the Bundestag were not prepared to provide further effect on the British economy and other economies. If resources. The European Central Bank was not prepared that is what a bit of instability and market volatility can to provide those resources either, for all sorts of reasons create, let us just imagine what the break-up of the to do with its history and those of other central banks eurozone will do to this economy. in Europe. They have therefore turned to those options to try to leverage up the money they have already Michael Fallon (Sevenoaks) (Con): Will my right committed. That is the sensible choice for them, given hon. Friend explain to the House what the consequences those other constraints. They are trying to get other would have been for our membership of the IMF if private investors from around the world, potentially those who had voted against the increase in our subscription including the involvement of sovereign wealth funds, to had prevailed? leverage up the fund. Of course, I completely agree with the right hon. Mr Osborne: That would have been catastrophic. We Gentleman that the sooner we get the agreement in would have been the only IMF shareholder not to have detail, the better. That applies equally to what he said ratified the deal initiated at the London G20 summit, about private sector involvement in the Greek write-down. which would have completely isolated Britain. We might 477 Eurozone Crisis27 OCTOBER 2011 Eurozone Crisis 478
[Mr George Osborne] UK taxpayers’ money to support it? If the latter, how will he force the IMF to ring-fence the money so that it have had to leave the IMF, and we would certainly have does not pay for a euro bail-out? lost our permanent seat on the board. We heard all the talk from the shadow Chief Secretary about ensuring Mr Osborne: Let me be clear to the hon. Lady. The that Britain is at the table—but she wants us to get up IMF potentially has a role—but that is yet to be decided—in and leave the IMF table. helping the eurozone to organise its special purpose vehicle, provide technical support and do all the things Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): that it is very good at doing, which is stepping in and In his statement, the Chancellor said, quite rightly, that providing expertise. That is a perfectly legitimate role the euro would not work unless the periphery countries for the IMF. It has done it in other situations where regained their competitiveness. How is that possible if trust funds and the like have been created around the those countries do not have the full IMF package, world. However, we are saying that there should not be including currency devaluation? In that context, does IMF resources going into this special purpose vehicle in he think that the IMF will get its money back? terms of a lending programme. The IMF lends money to countries with conditions attached, and that is what Mr Osborne: It is perfectly possible for areas within a it should do in the future. It is what its articles require it monetary union to increase their competitiveness relative to do. We do not support, and I do not think that the to other areas in the union—parts of the United Kingdom IMF does either, changing those articles and allowing and the United States have done so in the past 20 or the IMF to lend money to the special purpose vehicle. 30 years. It is possible, but it is very hard work—I agree We are against that and against Britain contributing to with the sentiment that the hon. Lady is expressing—and the special purpose vehicle, even if countries such as requires people to tackle tough issues, such as labour China or Chinese sovereign wealth funds docontribute. market reform, pension ages, tax rates and so on, which, Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): I welcome the of course, are controversial. However, people in countries Chancellor’s statement that resolving the immediate such as Italy, Spain and Greece have been confronted crisis in the eurozone and securing the long-term future with the reality of the need to make change—although of the euro currency are in Britain’s national interest. we will see whether they do indeed undertake that However, would he agree that it is also in Britain’s change. The IMF is the guardian of its own programmes national interest to maintain full, positive and active and makes constant assessments of its programmes in engagement within the EU 27 member states in order to Ireland, Greece and Portugal. I do not want to be deepen the single market and increase intra-EU trade, premature, but I think that we are seeing substantial which will benefit all member states? improvement in the Irish economic performance after the difficult decisions that they have taken in that country. Mr Osborne: I absolutely agree that there is a very important role for the EU27 to strengthen and deepen Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (Con): The Foreign the single market and to promote free trade—the EU Secretary once described the euro as a “burning building”. has just concluded a free trade agreement with South Might it not be an idea for us to help our neighbours get Korea that benefits the British economy directly. Also, out of the building? We know that there is always an the EU will have an important role in things such as exit from monetary union, so why not help our friends financial services regulation, and it is important that to get out? Keeping them in at any price is in neither that is discussed at the level of the 27, because we are their interests nor ours. such an important player in the financial services industry worldwide. So I completely agree with the hon. Gentleman. Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend and I have discussed Britain has been absolutely clear in recent months that this matter before, and we disagree. What the Foreign issues affecting the 27 should be discussed by the 27, not Secretary said at the time—I remember because I was at the level of the 17 euro members. It has been partly his speechwriter—[Interruption.] And there were some through our insistence, with others, that there have been very good speeches at the time. two European Councils and an ECOFIN this week to ensure that proper procedures are followed. Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Didn’t he write any of Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): The Chancellor his own speeches? said that British interests should be properly protected when the eurozone countries move towards giving up Mr Osborne: They were all written by him. national sovereignty and towards greater fiscal integration. The Foreign Secretary described the euro as a Will he clarify how that will happen? “burning building with no exits”. Mr Osborne: This is the argument that we have to That was his point. As I said, the break-up of the euro, make over the coming months and as the discussions disorderly or otherwise, this autumn or in the foreseeable start on whether there is going to be a future treaty future, would cause enormous instability to the entire change—although what is being talked about is a treaty global economy and do enormous damage to the British change of a limited nature. We have to look for ways of economy. securing Britain’s influence and voice, and the influence and voice of the other nine EU member states that are Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): Will not in the eurozone. That is absolutely top of our the Chancellor provide some clarification? He said that negotiating agenda. However, we also want to secure a no UK funding would go to the euro bail-out. When he rebalancing of the responsibilities between the EU and talked about supporting the IMF, therefore, did he its member states, which will be another important part mean with advice and suggestions only or is he using of the argument that we make. 479 Eurozone Crisis27 OCTOBER 2011 Eurozone Crisis 480
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): Does my right That will ensure that we do not get political pressure to hon. Friend agree that now that the 17 eurozone countries alter the growth forecast of the type that the former have established the precedent of holding their own Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Edinburgh South euro summit and have created yet another president, the West (Mr Darling), detailed in his recent autobiography. president of the euro group, there is a real danger that they will start to agree policies to suit themselves and Mr Robert Walter (North Dorset) (Con): The 50% then impose them on the other 10 EU countries that, haircut has been described as a charge on the banks, but thankfully, like the UK, have not adopted the euro? Greek sovereign debt is actually held by insurance companies, pension funds and hundreds of thousands Mr Osborne: I agree with my hon. Friend that we of individual savers. Can my right hon. Friend tell us have to be alert to the danger of the 17 eurozone members, what is in the package—or what measures he thinks which will have a qualified majority voting majority, need to be taken—to restore confidence in the existing caucusing on areas that are legitimately the preserve of sovereign debt of the peripheral eurozone countries? the 27 member states. When this country, under the previous Government, allowed the Eurogroup of Finance Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend’s first point is a good Ministers to be established and accepted that Britain one. The write-down of Greek debt ultimately has an would not be at that Eurogroup, there was the fear that impact on people who invest in Greek debt, either the Eurogroup would caucus. That was one of the concerns directly or—as is more likely for the general population of the then Government and Opposition. That actually of this country—through their pension funds and the has not happened. If anything, they have not co-ordinated like. Thankfully, British institutions were not that heavily and worked together closely enough over the past decade exposed to the Greek banking system and economy, or so. However, he is absolutely right that we need to compared with other European countries such as France ensure that they do not caucus in the future in a way and Germany, but he is right that people will have taken that undermines our voice and influence or that bounces losses. In Britain, the institutions that he mentioned all all 27 member states. All member states not in the euro provisioned for Greek loss many months ago, so it will are alert to this challenge. Indeed, last night the Prime come as no shock to them. More broadly, he asked Minister had dinner with the Polish and Swedish Prime about confidence in the stock of debt, which is of Ministers to discuss precisely that issue. course one of the challenges. The first loss guarantee that the agreement talks about is only for newly issued Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Will the debt. We will have to see how the special purpose Chancellor be crystal clear? Is he guaranteeing that no vehicle works as well, but in general, if there is confidence British money will be used for this bail-out directly, that there is a sufficient set of mechanisms in place to through the IMF or through any other vehicle? stand behind the euro and countries that are in trouble, that will also increase confidence in the stock of debt. Mr Osborne: I can guarantee that British money is not going into the special purpose vehicle. Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab): The Chancellor Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): The Chancellor might be surprised to know that if limited treaty changes is absolutely right to say that a disorderly break-up of are necessary to set up the inner 17, there would be the euro would be a disaster, but given that the euro is support from the Opposition Benches for the limited going to break up, should we not take the advice of the changes needed to protect Britain’s interests and for the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) and organise capacity to build a coalition among the 10 non-eurozone an orderly break up of the euro? members. However, a very real political question is whether the Chancellor and the Prime Minister will be Chris Bryant: That was not my advice. able to withstand the pressure from their Back Benches for much more fundamental reform of the treaty. Mr Osborne: I do not think that the orderly break-up of the euro, even if it were desirable, which I am not Mr Osborne: I would hope that we would persuade saying it would be, could be done in a way that would all parties in this House. There is certainly strong agreement not lead to a pretty disorderly impact on financial on the Conservative Benches that we want to rebalance markets and the British economy. the responsibilities and repatriate some powers. The Liberal Democrats and the Liberal Democrat leader Chris Bryant: The hon. Member for Wellingborough have talked about rebalancing responsibilities—he did (Mr Bone) is a very naughty boy and I shall see him so earlier this week. [Interruption.] The shadow Treasury afterwards. Minister, the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Basically, Greece lied about its finances and Italy is Leslie), seems to forget the position set out by his party probably still lying about its finances. It would have leader this weekend. When he was asked whether he helped enormously had there been independent proper thought that Brussels had too much power, he said no. auditing of those countries’finances. Many people opposed That is the official position of the Labour party going that when it was proposed, but surely we should be into these negotiations. I know that Opposition Members advocating it now. The danger for the Government is look pretty glum about it, but that is what the leader that it might apply to all 27 countries, not just the they chose—or rather, they did not choose—has done 17 eurozone members. for them.
Mr Osborne: Indeed. The statement talked about Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): Will the independent auditing of finance and independent growth Chancellor explain to the House how it has come about figures on which to base fiscal projections, which is that although the United Kingdom’s deficit this year is precisely what we have introduced in this country through larger than Greece’s, our interest rates are similar to the creation of the Office for Budget Responsibility. those in Germany? 481 Eurozone Crisis27 OCTOBER 2011 Eurozone Crisis 482
Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend makes a good observation. statement, the Chancellor seemed to come across as Because of the credible fiscal plans that we have set out, extremely timid about this country’s role in meeting that we have secured confidence in Britain’s ability to pay its challenge. way in the world, taken our credit rating off negative watch, which is where it was at the time of the general Mr Osborne: I will have to thumb through the index election, and secured for our country record low interest of Peter Oborne’s book, “Guilty Men”, to see whether rates. Those interest rates would be at risk if we pursued there is a reference to the hon. Gentleman. I will concede the policies advocated by the Opposition, which would that there are a few references to some of my colleagues also be a rather bizarre position to take into the European in that book, but I have a good alibi, which is that I was Council discussions, when right at the top of the agreement writing speeches for the Foreign Secretary at the time, signed yesterday is the statement that countries need to making it clear what some of the problems were with pursue policies of the euro, and some of those problems have come to “fiscal consolidation and structural reforms.” pass. The Opposition have voted against every policy of Chris Bryant: Who wrote the speeches? fiscal consolidation and every policy of structural reform. Mr Osborne: As the Foreign Secretary used to say at Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) the time, he wrote his own speeches, and I write my (PC): Does the Chancellor think that the 50% haircut of speeches today—and those who have written my speeches Greek sovereign debt will be sufficient and does he before me have got themselves into the House of Commons, expect that holders of Italian debt will also need a trip which is a good thing. to the barber’s? The serious point that I would make to the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) is this. I Mr Osborne: We think 50% is a very good number. completely reject his idea that Britain has been marginalised. We had in mind somewhere around 50%, and we wondered We have actually insisted that such matters be discussed whether that would be achievable. One of the pleasant at the European Council and ECOFIN. A key component surprises of last night was that it was achieved. It is only of today’s agreement is the banking package, which is a headline agreement, and as the former Chancellor the area where there is most detail. There was a 10-hour said earlier, it absolutely needs to be put into practice negotiation to achieve the banking package last Saturday now if this deal is to mean anything. I think it is best for which Britain was right at the heart of, so we are at the me to stick to talking just about Greece. centre of things. I suspect that the hon. Gentleman agrees with me that his party’s Front-Bench policy to Joseph Johnson (Orpington) (Con): RBS shares have marginalise us from the IMF would also see us leaving jumped 7% this morning in response to the eurozone that key negotiating table. statement. Does the Chancellor share the markets’ view that British banks are sufficiently capitalised to withstand Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): Can my not just the haircut to Greek debt, but any other eventualities right hon. Friend confirm that the proposals for a that might arise in the eurozone over the next few financial transaction tax are now dead in the water? months? Mr Osborne: I cannot confirm that they are dead in the water, because the eurozone is determined to pursue Mr Osborne: Yes, I am confident about that, which is a financial transaction tax and talks about that in its also something that the Bank of England and the statement. However, I can confirm to my hon. Friend Financial Services Authority monitor carefully. The that Britain will not accept a financial transaction tax at important thing about the test that the European Banking an EU27 level while other jurisdictions in the world do Authority applied was that it not only required banks to not impose one. We are not opposed to financial transaction hold 9% core tier 1, but marked to market their sovereign taxes in principle—after all, we have stamp duty on debt exposures, which is something that the eurozone shares in this country—but we will not have a financial resisted for the last year and a half. Of course, the transaction tax at a European Union level while countries market has priced in some haircuts—to continue the such as America, China, Singapore and others do not barbershop analogy—of other sovereign debts. That have one. As their having one is a long way off, we will does not mean that I think they will happen; they are be waiting a long time—perhaps for ever—for a European what the market thinks will happen. The fact that we Union financial transaction tax. have now tested our banks against those marked to market on sovereign debt gives us confidence that the Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): Over the banking system in Britain can withstand whatever is next few years we are likely to see the emergence of a thrown its way in the next couple of months. two-speed Europe, with the Government—or parts of the Government—going in exactly the opposite direction. Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): What can the Chancellor and the Prime Minister do to Something that I do not often discuss with people in the ensure that we are not locked out of the fundamental House is the fact that for some years the previous Prime decisions that will be made? Minister, Tony Blair, his Chancellor and I chaired the committee on preparations for the euro, on which the Mr Osborne: I just do not accept the premise behind present Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and the hon. Gentleman’s question. The coalition agreement Skills served, so I have some experience in this area. The explicitly states: Governor of the Bank of England said that we were in “We will ensure that there is no further transfer of sovereignty the middle of the worst crisis in the history of the or powers over the course of the next Parliament. We will examine international economy, but when I listened to today’s the balance of the EU’s existing competences”. 483 Eurozone Crisis27 OCTOBER 2011 Eurozone Crisis 484
The odd one out is the Labour party, which has set itself which is a significant sum. The hon. Member for Linlithgow against taking any power from Brussels back to Britain. and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty) also asked an That is exactly what the Labour leader said this weekend interesting question about what was happening during when asked that question. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman our time as Members of Parliament to the balance of use his lobbying efforts and his questions on his own economic force and power in the world. I suspect that party leader. we are going to spend many years talking about that in the period ahead. Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): I for one do not share the optimism that the latest package of Several hon. Members rose— measures will do the job, if only because it does not address the fundamental cause of the problem, which is Mr Speaker: Order. I am keen to accommodate the a lack of competitiveness. If there were to be a further remaining colleagues who are seeking to catch my eye, downward leg to the crisis, can the Chancellor assure but I must remind the House that there is a business the House and the country that Britain will not be statement to follow, and a significant debate thereafter. called on in any way to help financially with any further I am therefore looking for brevity. rescue packages, whether through the IMF or not? Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): I welcome Mr Osborne: As I have said to the House, Britain my right hon. Friend the Chancellor’s approach, including should not be part of eurozone bail-outs. We got ourselves his recognition that the division of responsibilities between out of—[Interruption.] I am answering the question. the EU and member states has become unbalanced. On coming to office, on the Sunday after the general Does he agree that the new proposals for fiscal integration election, the Labour Government committed us to being and mutual control in the eurozone do nothing to part of an EU bail-out of the eurozone. We have now reduce the case for a rebalancing of those responsibilities? got ourselves out of that, which is very important. We are also not contributing to the eurozone bail-out of Mr Osborne: Yes, I think that I can agree with my Greece, which has just increased in size; nor are we hon. Friend. going to contribute to any special purpose vehicle or fund that might be created. We are absolutely clear Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): Can the Chancellor about that. When it comes to IMF resources, like every update us on the situation regarding Cypriot banks, other country in the world that is a member of the IMF, with their many customers in the UK and their tie-in to including China, Thailand, Guatemala, the United States the Greek economy? of America, Canada and Brazil, we of course contribute Mr Osborne: We keep under close surveillance not to its resources for the 53 programmes that it is currently only British banks but the branches of Cypriot banks carrying out across the world, and we will continue to and the subsidiaries of other banks operating here in do so. However, we are not prepared to see—and the the UK. So we are closely monitoring the Cypriot banks, articles of the IMF do not allow for—money from the as we do with the other eurozone banks in Britain. IMF being put into a special purpose vehicle. So I think that the position is pretty clear. Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): Has the Chancellor seen Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): any credible figures that show that Greece can solve its I would think much more highly of the Chancellor if he long-term deficit and debt problems and still remain in would actually admit that one reason that the banking the eurozone? system in the UK is not under threat is because the last Mr Osborne: Yes, I think that there are plenty of Government and the people of this country bailed out things that Greece can do, which the Greek Government the banks. have already identified, to make itself much more The right hon. Gentleman will recall that, as Hansard competitive. It is coming from a long way behind, but it will show, I asked him last time about the possibility can do quite a lot in regard to its labour market, its that they would require a £2 trillion fund, which most pension ages, its tax rates and the like that would make economists say they will, and that the so-called haircut— it considerably more competitive than it is today. more Sweeney Todd than Vidal Sassoon—would be 60%. Surely we must be in the IMF and involved in Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): funding through the IMF; otherwise the big bazooka Can the Chancellor please give us more details of how that the Prime Minister has talked about will say “Made he intends to represent the UK’s interests, given that the in China”. eurozone countries have their own separate president and summits? Mr Osborne: I am happy to acknowledge that the previous Government recapitalised the British banks. Mr Osborne: Eurozone Finance Ministers’ meetings They were obviously under enormous duress at the are already held every month—that was agreed by the time—[Interruption.] It is simply not the case, as the previous Government—and there is now an agreement hon. Member for Nottingham East has just suggested, to hold two eurozone Heads of Government summits a that the Conservatives opposed that. We supported it at year. There have been two this year already, but we the time; indeed, we were advocating it in advance of it should not regard that as a fundamental threat; we have happening. However, I completely recognise that it was to allow them to get together to better manage their a difficult decision for the previous Government to take. own currency. We are, however, looking at proposals On the question of the size of the fund, of course that have been put forward here for those summits to there are those who would like it to be even larger. We take place after the EU27 leaders gather, rather than should welcome the significant progress that has increased before, so that we do not have any caucusing in advance its size severalfold to, potentially, around ¤1 trillion, of a meeting of the European Council. 485 Eurozone Crisis27 OCTOBER 2011 Eurozone Crisis 486
Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): How confident is Mr Osborne: I can just say yes to that. my right hon. Friend that countries such as China will want to contribute to the special purpose vehicle, and Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): May I what will happen if they do not? just press the Chancellor a little further on the Prime Minister’s desire to repatriate powers over employment Mr Osborne: The short answer is that we will find out and social policy? What discussions has he had so far whether China wants to contribute. The President of with eurozone Finance Ministers on these matters and France is speaking to the President of China today, and how many of them would he expect to support the he will no doubt give us all an update following that Prime Minister’s position? conversation.
Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): Much to the Mr Osborne: The discussions on treaty change, which annoyance of some of his Back Benchers, the Chancellor the Council conclusions on the eurozone mention, have supports greater fiscal integration within the eurozone, only just begun, so I have not had those discussions. but what precisely does he mean by greater fiscal integration? Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): Would my Mr Osborne: I think that the hon. Gentleman is being right hon. Friend anticipate how his international a little unfair to Conservative Back Benchers. Actually, counterparts would have reacted at recent EU summits quite a lot of Eurosceptics would argue—as I would, as if he had argued that, as advocated by Labour Members, a Eurosceptic—that we always said that this would the UK should increase its borrowing by the end of this happen if we joined the single currency. We always said Parliament by up to £87 billion a year? that it would result in losing national sovereignty, co-ordinating budget policies or giving away powers Mr Osborne: We would, of course, have been laughed over budgets. That is one of the reasons that we did not out of the summit. We would not even have been able to want Britain to join; it is why we stayed out. Given that sign up to the Council’s conclusions. The Labour party monetary union logic leads to greater fiscal integration, policy has no plan to reduce the deficit—[Interruption.] we should let that happen, because I think that it will Well, if there is a plan, let us hear it. Let us hear one make the euro work better. As I have said, however, example. The Labour party has no plan to reduce our Britain wants no part of it. deficit, which is higher than that of almost any of the countries we have talked about. It has a plan basically Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Harlow taxpayers to pull us out of the International Monetary Fund and will be very relieved that none of their hard-earned a plan to join the euro—such plans would be treated as money is to be used to prop up failed socialist Governments slightly bizarre at some of these meetings. in Europe. They will also want to be sure, however, that my right hon. Friend will do all that he can to repatriate powers from Europe, unlike Labour Members, who Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): More believe that everything in the EU garden is rosy. constituents have contacted me about the financial transaction tax than ever contacted me about Monday’s Mr Osborne: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend debate. They will be pleased to have heard the Chancellor that we are going to seek to rebalance those responsibilities. say that he supports this in principle. Will he go to the He also draws our attention to the fact that Greece and G20 to argue vigorously in favour of this tax? Spain are run by socialist Governments, but I do not want to intrude on their politics. Mr Osborne: What I would say about the financial transaction tax—[Interruption.] I am not sure that it is John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab): Having just taken credit Labour policy. There is a debate about this tax, but for letting Greece off half its debt at the expense of, attached to it is a serious red herring. People would like among others, British pensioners, what provisions would a financial transaction tax to be used to pay for the aid the Chancellor advise British institutions to make in commitments into which big western countries entered. regard to Italian debt? That is what all the non-governmental organisations that contacted the hon. Lady and others are arguing for. Mr Osborne: I am not providing that advice across Britain is meeting its international aid commitments the Dispatch Box, but the Financial Services Authority, out of its own resources, and we do need a financial the Bank of England and the Treasury monitor British transaction tax across Europe for other countries to financial institutions to ensure that they are appropriately meet the aid commitments they entered into. When it prepared for things that might happen. The European comes to the principle of the financial transaction tax, Banking Authority test that I have talked about takes one cannot oppose it, as we have a stamp duty on into account a mark to market on the sovereign debt shares, but I would say that if we impose such a tax in exposures of countries such as Italy and Spain. Europe, all the business would disappear overnight to Hong Kong, Singapore and elsewhere. We know that Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): The Opposition because that is what happened when the United States have talked a lot about Britain’s marginalisation, so imposed a form of transaction tax on the euro-dollar may I say that I welcome the fact that the Prime market—it moved to London—and when Sweden Minister attended yesterday’s meeting because I know introduced a financial transaction tax in the early ’90s, that the Leader of the Opposition would much prefer its entire business moved to London almost immediately. President Sarkozy to represent this country? Will my We have many case-studies. I understand why people right hon. Friend confirm that while he is Chancellor he are emotive about this issue, but surely the question is, will do everything he can to ensure that a British Prime “Are you meeting your aid commitments?”—and this Minister represents British interests in Europe? country is. We should all be proud of that. 487 Eurozone Crisis27 OCTOBER 2011 Eurozone Crisis 488
David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): Following the directive properly implemented. Competition has brought deal on the eurozone, I understand that Italian media great benefits not just to the economy, but to European and Italian businesses are calling on Mr Berlusconi to consumers, including those in this country. To my mind, copy this Government’s approach to deficit reduction. that is what the European Union exists to do. It should Does my right hon. Friend agree that Italy and other make its contribution to growth across the continent. eurozone countries would have been far better off if they had followed that course of action long before now? Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con): Will my right hon. Friend assure my constituents that the euro Mr Osborne: I think they would have been in a better preparations unit has been abolished and that under position if they had got ahead of the pressure from the this Government it will never be re-established? markets rather than being pursued by them. That is precisely what this Government did in Britain. The Mr Osborne: That is an easy assurance for me to give markets are, for many people, an abstract idea, but as to my hon. Friend’s constituents. There was a euro we have discussed, we are talking ultimately about the preparations unit in the Treasury when I arrived. It was decisions of many millions of investors and people with shut down and it will not be reopened. pensions, life insurance policies and the like about where they put their money. If they do not have confidence in Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): Can my right hon. a country’s ability to pay its way in the world, that Friend confirm that when the previous Government money disappears almost overnight. signed this country up to the Nice treaty 10 years ago, they also signed away our veto on financial assistance to Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): European nations? Has the Chancellor had an opportunity to carry out the work that will determine if, when and by how much last Mr Osborne: I can confirm that we have lost our veto night’s decision will impact on UK growth? If he has not on financial assistance. That was one of the issues with had that opportunity, will he undertake to come back to the so-called EFSM—the European financial stabilisation us so we can have further debate on that very matter? mechanism—which was the EU27 bail-out fund, which we joined a couple of days before this Government were Mr Osborne: The honest answer to the hon. Gentleman’s created. Getting us out of it—[Interruption.] The former perfectly good question is that, on the morning after the Chancellor’s memoirs are very clear about this. night before, we do not know because important details remain to be resolved. We need to see the detail of how Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): Who this 50% write-down of Greek debt is going to happen wrote them? and we need to see how the new firewall will work in practice. We have to see the details: until they are in Mr Osborne: The former Chancellor wrote them! place, this will remain unresolved and the instability What I would say to my hon. Friend is that we did not might return. The answer to the hon. Gentleman’s have the power to veto disbursements from the EFSM, question is that when the detail is in place, we should be so we had to negotiate our way out of it. That is able to make an assessment of whether it has calmed precisely what the British Prime Minister has done. the markets and improved the UK growth position. Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): We hear Labour Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con): While strongly Members suggesting that Britain is somehow isolated supporting my right hon. Friend’s robust defence of the from other members at the EU table, but does the national interest, may I ask him what the statement Chancellor agree that what they forget is that by refusing means where it says “to provide, from the bail-out to rule out joining the euro and by insisting that more fund”, presumably the existing bail-out fund, “insurance powers be ceded to Brussels, they are isolating themselves on new debt issued by Eurozone countries”, presumably from the broad mass of the British people? including Italy? Mr Osborne: I completely agree with my hon. Friend. Mr Osborne: The concept here is that first-loss insurance It is a remarkable position for the Labour leader to take on newly issued debt from countries such as Italy, as my when he says: hon. Friend mentions, would be provided out of the special purpose vehicle. That would obviously make it “I don’t think Brussels has too much power.” easier for investors to buy bad debt. What sort of negotiation would it be if he were in charge? Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): I welcome the Chancellor’s statement that some progress has been Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con): I, too, welcome made to protect the eurozone. In parallel with repatriating the Chancellor’s efforts to protect British taxpayers powers, will the British Government make it absolutely from further bail-outs. I also welcome his statement certain that the single market becomes a place where that the International Monetary Fund exists to support competition can thrive and productivity can improve, as countries that cannot support themselves, but I reiterate it is in our interest as well as that of the whole of my concern that the IMF does not end up supporting a Europe to make sure that it works well? currency if a country chooses not to take the right action. Mr Osborne: I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. The European single market has helped the UK Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend has made a good point. economy over the last couple of decades. We want to The IMF exists to support countries, and supports 53 at see it completed further and we want to see the services present. It does not exist to support currencies. 489 Eurozone Crisis 27 OCTOBER 2011 490
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): Can Business of the House the Chancellor tell us how on earth it can be the case that, although it has a larger deficit than Greece, the 12.40 pm United Kingdom enjoys German levels of interest rates? The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Mr Osborne: That is because this Government, in the Young): The business for the week beginning 31 October teeth of opposition from the Labour party—which will be as follows: created this mess—have established fiscal credibility, MONDAY 31 OCTOBER—Instruction relating to the Legal brought our interest rates down, and ensured that while Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill, we may talk about the bail-out of some European followed by remaining stages of the Legal Aid, Sentencing countries, we are not talking about the bail-out of and Punishment of Offenders Bill (Day 1). Britain. TUESDAY 1NOVEMBER—Continuation of remaining stages of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill (Day 2). WEDNESDAY 2NOVEMBER—Conclusion of remaining stages of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill (Day 3). THURSDAY 3NOVEMBER—General debate on the Silk commission. The provisional business for the week commencing 7 November will include the following: MONDAY 7NOVEMBER—Money Resolution relating to the Localism Bill, followed by consideration of Lords Amendments to the Localism Bill. TUESDAY 8NOVEMBER—If necessary, consideration of Lords Amendments, followed by motion to approve a European document relating to European budgets, followed by motion to approve a reasoned opinion relating to credit institutions, followed by business nominated by the Backbench Business Committee. WEDNESDAY 9NOVEMBER—Opposition day [unallotted day]. There will be a debate on an Opposition motion, subject to be announced. THURSDAY 10 NOVEMBER—General debate on armed forces personnel. I should also like to inform the House that the business in Westminster Hall for 3 and 10 November 2011 will be as follows: THURSDAY 3NOVEMBER—Debate on shale gas, followed by debate on electricity market reform. THURSDAY 10 NOVEMBER—Debate on funding of social care.
Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): Last Monday was the 50th anniversary of the first session of Prime Minister’s questions. I am surprised that the Leader of the House did not mention that. I know how much you enjoy those occasions, Mr Speaker. When I looked it up, I found that the first such occasion featured an old Etonian Tory Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, fielding questions about his negotiations to get us into the “common market.” Fifty years on, the latest Old Etonian Tory Prime Minister spent the day frantically pleading with his own side not to vote for a referendum to get us out of it. Macmillan was famous for his “little local difficulties”. I think that the current Prime Minister now has 81 “little local difficulties” of his own making, and more in the Cabinet. Can the Leader of the House tell us whether the PM will follow Supermac’s example, and resort to a “night of the long knives” to deal with them? This Government’s flawed choice to cut too far and too fast before the recovery was secure stalled growth in the economy long before the eurozone crisis. Despite 491 Business of the House27 OCTOBER 2011 Business of the House 492 the most ferocious squeeze in living standards for plans the Government have to repatriate powers from generations, their only plan is to abolish employment the Liberal Democrats. Is it not the case that the past rights for millions of people in the workplace. May we few days have exposed a weak Prime Minister leading a have a debate on this week’s leaked report from millionaire divided Government, too busy fighting internal battles financier Adrian Beecroft, which calls for the scrapping to fight for Britain’s interests? of protections against unfair dismissal, and says that creating that insecurity for millions of people at work is Sir George Young: The hon. Lady is right: this is the “a price worth paying”? Can the Leader of the House 50th anniversary of the first session of Prime Minister’s tell us why owning four Aston Martins and making questions. I think that the Prime Minister enjoys the lavish donations to the Tory party qualify Mr Beecroft event more than the Leader of the Opposition. to have a worthwhile opinion on anything? I remind the hon. Lady that Supermac never lost an Last week the Leader of the House told us that election. As for rebellions, she seems to think that they rushingforwardthedebateonEUreformfromThursday have only happened under the coalition Government, to Monday would allow the Foreign Secretary to enrich but the last Government endured much bigger rebellions. it with his presence. Can he tell the House how large the In March 2007 94 Labour MPs voted to delay Trident, Tory rebellion would have been if the Foreign Secretary and even the hon. Lady has a history of dabbling in had not enriched the debate with his presence? And, rebellions on issues such as foundation trusts. given that this was the biggest rebellion on Europe in any political party since the dawn of time, can he tell us Let me deal briefly with some of the other issues that who is taking the blame? Tory blogger Tim Montgomerie the hon. Lady raised. We are committed to reforming blamed the Prime Minister, accusing him of having a employment law, supporting business and encouraging work ethic which is the “opposite of Margaret Thatcher’s”. growth, while—crucially—ensuring that we do not weaken Apparently our Prime Minister is more interested in the the employment rights of workers up and down the latest box sets than in his red boxes. This week he has country; and we do not comment on leaked reports obviously been watching too much of “The Sopranos” such as the one to which the hon. Lady referred. and not enough “Friends”. [Laughter.] We have just heard a statement on Europe, in which the Chancellor addressed the issue of treaty change. My Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): Ah! It was a party is united behind the Prime Minister’s vision for joke! reform in the European Union, and indeed that is an aspiration shared by many across the continent. I agree Ms Eagle: Shall I say it again, then? with Lord Ashdown, who said in an interview yesterday: “I don’t think Europe needs to be as intrusive as it is and so The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of does Nick Clegg.” the House of Commons (Mr David Heath): It is a repeat. As for the treaty, the hon. Lady will know what the coalition agreement says: Ms Eagle: Indeed. Perhaps I should repeat it. “We will examine the balance of the EU’s existing competences”. Is it not clear that the Prime Minister’s plans backfired That remains the position. The coalition parties are in spectacularly, with half his own Back Benchers defying total harmony on the issue. him? Today we learnt that the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has threatened to leave the Cabinet if he is ever forced to vote against his Eurosceptic Mr Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con): May we have instincts again, and now we learn that the Justice Secretary a debate on happiness? [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear.”] has been suddenly pulled out of today’s debate on the Is the Leader of the House aware that from this weekend Council of Europe, just in case he says something nice onwards, for several months, many millions of people about the EU and further alienates the Tory rebels. will be less happy than they could be as Britain is What has it come to in today’s Tory party when Eurosceptics plunged into darkness by early afternoon after we have are bullied and pro-Europeans are gagged? put our clocks back? If we cannot have a debate, may Given that last night’s welcome agreement in Brussels we have action in future to end this unnecessary and brings the prospect of a treaty change much closer, can depressing ritual? the Leader of the House tell us what the Government’s policy on Europe is now, and may we have a debate Sir George Young: I am grateful to my right hon. about it? While he was getting the Whips to bully them, Friend, who has campaigned long and hard on this the Prime Minister was trying to appease his mutinous important issue. He will know that a private Member’s Back Benchers by promising them reform tomorrow. Bill has been tabled on the specific subject that he has The next day, his deputy vetoed it. The Prime Minister raised. It has received a Second Reading, and the wants to repatriate powers, whereas the Deputy Prime Government are considering their position and consulting Minister says that that “won’t work” and is “condemned the devolved Assemblies which have an interest in the to failure”. Which is it? issue. We want to reach a consensus and make progress. Speaking of the Deputy Prime Minister, his reward for rubbing salt in Eurosceptic wounds this week is Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab): being allowed to blow an extra half a million pounds a May we have an informed debate about the right of year on seven new Liberal Democrat special advisers. public service workers to be appropriately represented That is apparently intended to “bolster”Liberal Democrat at their workplace? Unfortunately, the sponsor of last influence in Whitehall. Perhaps, in the light of all this night’s Adjournment debate was ill-informed and confusion and contradiction between the Prime Minister perpetuated the myth that trade unions are “the enemy and his deputy, we should have a debate about what within.” He represents the same party that heaps praise 493 Business of the House27 OCTOBER 2011 Business of the House 494
[Jim Sheridan] I welcome the upcoming armed forces debate, but will the Leader of the House ensure that Ministers are on our emergency service workers, but seeks to deny well-briefed on the future of the Ministry of Defence them proper representation at their workplace, which is police and on housing for the families of military personnel? utter hypocrisy. Sir George Young: I am delighted to see that my hon. Sir George Young: As the hon. Gentleman said, we Friend is happy, as he usually intervenes on matters had an Adjournment debate on this subject last night. I relating to the Independent Parliamentary Standards am sure that the Minister replying to that debate made Authority, when he is far from happy. I thank him for an informed contribution and dealt seriously with the his welcome for the armed forces debate. As he knows, issues raised. I cannot promise another such debate in there used to be regular armed forces debates in Government Government time in the near future. time, but responsibility for finding time then passed to the Backbench Business Committee. It has not so far Several hon. Members rose— been able to find time for such a debate—we understand why as we have just heard from the hon. Member for Mr Speaker: Order. May I remind the House that North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel) about the Members who have not been present from the start time pressures facing the Committee—so the Government should not expect to be called? have provided a debate in the run-up to Armistice day. We think that that is an appropriate time for the House Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): May we to remember those who serve in the armed forces, have a debate on freedom of speech? Mr Peter Tatchell—a especially as it will now also be held against the backdrop gentleman for whom I have some admiration—has today of the ending of action in Libya. We think it is appropriate attacked the Trafford Housing Trust for its despicable that the House should have a debate on this subject, decision to downgrade the position and cut the salary which it has not discussed for a year. of Mr Adrian Smith, a Christian, for posting private comments on his own private Facebook account on the Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): I understand subject of gay marriage. Should we be putting public that the Secretary of State for Health is due to make a money into an organisation that is, effectively, propagating statement of some kind at 1 o’clock today on the state-sponsored intolerance? Government’s response to the Independent Reconfiguration Panel findings on the future of health services in north-east Sir George Young: I am a firm believer in freedom of London, including King George hospital in my speech and freedom of worship. Of course people should constituency. This morning, the Care Quality Commission obey the law of the country. I will draw this incident to published a damning report on the Barking, Havering the attention of the Minister for Housing and Local and Redbridge University Hospitals NHS Trust, criticising Government, to see whether there is any action to be poor management and some poor staff attitudes, and taken either by him or the Housing Corporation. saying that the attempt to cut the deficit had led to reductions in the quality of care and that the transfer of Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): The services from King George hospital to the Queen’s Backbench Business Committee has experienced a large hospital had not led to efficiency savings. May we have increase in demand for debate time as a direct result of an early debate on these matters? I understand from the the introduction of e-petitions. As it is in the Leader of Secretary of State’s private office that he is due to make the House’s gift to give debate time to the Backbench a statement in six minutes’ time, but neither I nor any of Business Committee, will he recognise that his introduction the other eight MPs representing the area—all of whom of e-petitions and assigning the Backbench Business have been campaigning hard to save services at the Committee to deal with them has led to this enormous hospital—have yet been informed of what is in that increase in demand on time, and therefore allocate extra statement. time, ring-fenced specifically for e-petitions? Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s Sir George Young: May I begin by commending the concern about health service provision in his constituency. work of the Backbench Business Committee and the My understanding is that the Secretary of State for hon. Lady in chairing it? Three petitions have passed Health will shortly make a decision on this issue, which the threshold. Her Committee has found time for one in arises from the work of the panel on reconfiguration of Westminster Hall and one in the Chamber, and the services. When the Secretary of State has made his third is before her at the moment. I commend the way in decisions, the Members concerned will be informed in which the Committee has handled those petitions. There the usual way, and I am sure he will take into account will be an opportunity to review both the e-petition all relevant information, including any from the CQC. regime and the work of the Backbench Business Committee, and the Procedure Committee will conduct a broader Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): When I served review of the calendar, which is the context in which we as a church warden, I was advised that it was an offence should address the hon. Lady’s concern about how we to prevent any worshippers from attending divine service, might find more headroom for the Committee to respond and that as a church warden I had the power of arrest to the many demands on its time. within the churchyard. I never had to test that, but given the confusion at St Paul’s cathedral, may we have Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): On the question of a statement on the legal position? happiness, the Leader of the House may be interested to know that 50 years ago this very week Helen Shapiro Sir George Young: I commend my hon. Friend on his was top of the hit parade with “Walking Back to work as a church warden for the Church of England. Happiness”. As I understand it, there has been a resignation at 495 Business of the House27 OCTOBER 2011 Business of the House 496
St Paul’s. So far as I know, the protestors have not Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con): Ealing closed a bank or caused a single banker to resign, but recently held its first public scrutiny meeting on the they have closed St Paul’s and caused the resignation of aftermath of the riots. One of the main concerns was a cleric who was committed to their cause. The legal the slowness with which insurance companies have been situation is complex, as there is a variety of land ownership responding to claims from riot victims. If that is the surrounding St Paul’s. My understanding is that the case, it is totally unacceptable. Will my right hon. Friend City of London Corporation is in touch with the Church raise the matter with the Business Secretary and perhaps authorities to see if they can reach agreement on the ask for a statement to be made to the House? way forward. In the meantime, I hope that the protestors will heed the advice from a number of sources, not least Sir George Young: It would be quite wrong of insurance the Bishop of London, that they should stop their companies to penalise the victims of the riots by withholding protest and allow free access to St Paul’s. the compensation to which they are entitled. I say in passing that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): Domestic violence for Communities and Local Government has extended costs the economy more than £6 billion, and research the period during which businesses can claim for shows that it is three times more likely to occur when compensation. I will certainly raise the matter with my couples are under financial strain. On Monday, the right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Prime Minister was unable to tell me three ways in Innovation and Skills, who may want to raise it with the which his Government have helped women’s contribution Association of British Insurers. I am sure that individual to the economy. In view of that and the fact that the Bill Members of Parliament will take up any case where an we will start discussing next Monday will reduce access injustice has been done to their constituents, and pursue to legal aid for women victims of domestic violence, it directly and vigorously with the insurance company may we have a statement from the Government on what concerned. they have done to protect women from domestic violence? Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): Recently, a female Sir George Young: Only a few days ago, we had a constituent of mine came to a surgery very concerned debate in which we assisted women by changing the that she could not get access to a life-saving cancer pension age arrangements, and there will be opportunities drug, Femara. This is not to do with the National to discuss domestic violence in the three days next week Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, as the drug that we debate the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment is available and regularly prescribed. What she could of Offenders Bill. The hon. Lady will also know that on not do is access it in her chemist, and this is now Tuesday of this week the Home Secretary started a happening throughout the United Kingdom. Will the consultation on Clare’s law, which will bring real help to Leader of the House find time for a debate in Government those suffering from domestic violence by giving people time on access to prescribed drugs and on the merits or the right to know, or a right to ask, whether they are otherwise of a public service obligation, as every other with a partner who has a history of violence. We have, European country has, to make sure that not only do therefore, taken a number of steps to protect women wholesalers provide these vital life-saving drugs and liable to domestic violence, and next week there will be they are distributed, but every chemist holds stocks of an opportunity to pursue the agenda further. them?
Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con): My constituency Sir George Young: I understand the force of the hon. of Spelthorne in Middlesex is driven by small business. Gentleman’s argument. We debated health provision May we have a debate on tax and tax reforms, and their yesterday, although I am not sure whether he had the effect on small business? opportunity to raise the matter then. I will raise it with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health Sir George Young: My hon. Friend is right that small and ask him to write to the hon. Gentleman, reacting to and medium-sized enterprises are the drivers of economic the strong case that he has just made. growth, and he may have an opportunity to raise the topic when my right hon. Friend the Chancellor makes Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): May we have a debate his autumn statement in November. In the meantime, on Government transparency? Hard-working taxpayers my hon. Friend will know that we have extended the are learning today that the previous Government spent small business rate relief holiday for a year, we are hundreds of pounds in an Australian casino. We do not working to abolish 43 tax reliefs in the system to come know whether they put all the money on red, we do not up with a better regime, and we are cutting corporation know whether they blew it all and we do not know what tax to the lowest rate in the G7. I hope that will help they did with any winnings, but that is just one example small businesses in Spelthorne. of the misuse of Government procurement cards. Can the Leader of the House also tell us what the Government Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): are doing to crack down on such excesses? Does the Leader of the House think it is ever right or appropriate for a Chair of a Select Committee to threaten Sir George Young: The Government strongly believe a female member of that Committee with getting “a in transparency. My hon. Friend will know that our doing”? right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General is today publishing details of all Sir George Young: My understanding is that, whatever credit card expenditure of more than £500 made in happened in the Scottish Affairs Committee, the Chairman recent months. We have borne down on the use of credit has apologised and I think that is the right action for cards within the public sector, but we believe that him to take. transparency has a key role to play. I commend my right 497 Business of the House27 OCTOBER 2011 Business of the House 498
[Sir George Young] Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): May we have an urgent debate about the incompetence and inefficiencies hon. Friend for publishing details of spending on Whitehall of the Child Support Agency? Three constituents of procurement cards which, as my hon. Friend indicated, mine, David Kidd, Rodney Zuna and Mark Lavery, has a number of interesting avenues that I am sure the have been very poorly treated by that organisation. In media will want to explore. the case of Mr David Kidd, the CSA is refusing to pay money that is rightfully owed to him after he was found Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): This has been a good not to be the father of a child, and the situation is week for the Backbench Business Committee. A few causing him immense hardship. Will the Leader of the months ago, we had a debate in this Chamber about the House raise this issue with Ministers? use of wild animals in circuses, in which the view of the House was very clear. May we have a statement to Sir George Young: I will certainly contact Ministers the House on the progress the Government are making at the Department for Work and Pensions and ask them in addressing what they perceive are the legal obstacles to pursue the individual case raised by my hon. Friend. to carrying out the will of the House in that respect? We all know from our own casework that the CSA generates a fantastic amount of work. The Government Sir George Young: The Backbench Business Committee are in the process of reforming the child maintenance exists because the coalition Government set it up; the system by putting the child first, encouraging parents to previous Administration failed to do that. I will certainly come to an agreement about financial support and then make inquiries about any legal obstacles that impede providing statutory back-up where that is impossible. the will of the House, as expressed in that debate, being We believe that that will be a better system than the one carried forward, and I will ask the Minister concerned we have at the moment. to write to the hon. Gentleman. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): In Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): I welcome the the light of this week’s comments by Jamie Oliver about announcement of the decision to hold a debate on the school food, may we please have a debate about school Silk commission in Government time, and I warmly dinners and whether the Government have any commitment welcome the opportunity to debate that important issue to them at all? of highlighting the fiscal responsibility of the Welsh Assembly. What assurances can the Leader of the House Sir George Young: The Government are committed give me regarding the time that will be allocated for that to the provision of free school meals with appropriate debate, to ensure that the subject is fully discussed in nutritional content. I would personally welcome such a this House? debate. I cannot provide Government time for one but I am sure that the Backbench Business Committee or Sir George Young: My hon. Friend will know that you, Mr Speaker, might respond to an application for a traditionally there has been a St David’s day debate on debate on the Adjournment. Welsh affairs and that in this Parliament we have not had a debate on Wales. Given the pressure on the Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): At the Quest Backbench Business Committee, we felt that it was academy in my constituency 41% of pupils got five right to debate the Silk commission, which addresses good GCSEs, including English and maths, this year. issues of the governance of Wales. The Secretary of That was an increase from the 23% figure that the State for Wales and, indeed, the commission will want previous school, Selsdon high, got just a year ago, to know the views of the House, and we have provisionally making the Quest academy one of the most improved allocated a whole day’s debate for that important matter. schools in the country. Other neighbouring schools— Edenham high school, Shirley high school and the Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): Hundreds of my Oasis academy—also saw big improvements. May we recently unemployed constituents have heard about job have a debate on how the Government’s education vacancies in the Palace. These are jobs working with reforms are transforming the life chances of deprived charities, offering first-class travel and 40 lavish overseas children in my constituency? trips. If the job application forms were made available in Accrington jobcentre, I am sure that we would get a Sir George Young: We would welcome such a debate, high calibre of applicant. May we have a statement on and I hope that the Opposition, who have an Opposition why those job application details are not available in day or two in the weeks ahead, might choose education Hyndburn and Haslingden? as a subject for debate. We heard yesterday their somewhat confused position whereby they are in favour of free Sir George Young: I am not sure that I have correctly schools individually, but oppose the policy that generates understood the hon. Gentleman’s question. Is he referring them. to job vacancies in the Palace of Westminster? Is that the thrust of his question? Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Given the fact that the Prime Minister on three separate occasions Graham Jones: Within the Palace. refused to list the powers that he wants to bring back from Brussels, may we have an urgent statement on the Sir George Young: Jobs within the Palace come from matter so that he can spell out clearly to the British a variety of sources: some are from individual Members people which powers he wants to bring back from and some are from the House of Commons Commission. Brussels? Is he afraid to do so? The House of Commons Commission, as an equal opportunities employer, advertises jobs in the normal Sir George Young: The Prime Minister answered way, and I am sure that we would welcome applications questions on this matter for an hour on Monday and he from the hon. Gentleman’s constituents. answered questions yesterday. If the hon. Gentleman 499 Business of the House27 OCTOBER 2011 Business of the House 500 looks at the coalition agreement, he will find a specific the House of Commons: he signed up to the e-petition example of where we want to get powers back—it process and the Backbench Business Committee. We concerns the working time directive. are committed to a minimum of 35 days a year for the Backbench Business Committee, and although it is Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con): When sometimes inconvenient for the Government, we firmly I was born, the global population was 3 billion. It is believe that it is right that the House of Commons about to breach 7 billion, and although I can say that I should have some control of its agenda, at times choosing have modestly added to that, it is not all my fault. Such subjects that the Government perhaps would not have increase is unsustainable, as it will put undue pressures chosen. on water, food and even jobs. May I invite the Leader of the House enable us to debate that very difficult subject, Mr Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con): Speaking in which we need to embrace in the future? Australia this week, President Kikwete of Tanzania urged investors in his country to reinvest the profits Sir George Young: We are all in this together. The from their companies in his country. Unfortunately, as figures that I saw, which I believe were published yesterday, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office well knows, he showed that two thirds of the increase in the UK’s is the same President Kikwete who is in thrall to the population was due to immigration, with the rest being media baron Reginald Mengi and who has done nothing due to increased longevity. On immigration, my hon. to give satisfaction to my constituents Sarah and Stewart Friend will know the steps being taken by the Home Hermitage, whose farm in Tanzania was stolen from Secretary to reduce net migration down to tens of them by Mr Mengi’s brother. Could we have a debate in thousands rather than hundreds of thousands. The Government time to discuss not only the joys but the steps we have taken regarding students, spouses and dangers of investing in Tanzania? workers will all have a downward impact on the future UK population, which I hope he will welcome. Sir George Young: I am sorry to hear about that loss of property on the part of my hon. Friend’s constituents. Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): I shall certainly raise the issue with the Foreign and I wonder if the Leader of the House will encourage the Commonwealth Office—the FCO Minister for Europe, Government to have an investigation and make a statement my right hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury or create a debate on the operation of the 2002 commercial (Mr Lidington), is in his place at the moment—and see debts Act? I have found, through the wonderful scheme whether there are any representations it can make to get of being a business buddy for the federation of private justice for the people whose property was confiscated. business, that small businesses find that many bigger companies still write into their contracts a 90-day payment Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con): I am period, even though the Act states 30 days, and even sorry that the shadow Leader of the House feels that SELECT, the electrical engineering group, says the same. there is something wrong with owning four Aston Martins. The big businesses are bullying small businesses out of After all, if one can own two Jags, why not four Aston their rights under the Act, and I want to know what the Martins? Certainly, my constituents who work at the Government are going to do to enforce that Act. Heritage Aston Martin works in Newport Pagnell will be hoping that Mr Beecroft will own a few more. May Sir George Young: We have just had Department for we have a debate on the future of the British motor Business, Innovation and Skills questions; I do not manufacturing industry? know whether the hon. Gentleman had an opportunity to raise this issue then. I shall draw the matter to the Sir George Young: As the owner of a very small attention of the Business Secretary to see whether there bicycle, I look at these fast and expensive cars with is abuse of that piece of legislation and, if so, what some envy. My hon. Friend makes a valid point— action we can take to stop it. conspicuous consumption generates jobs in constituencies such as his. I think it was Lord Mandelson, was it not, Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Monday’s who said that nothing inconvenienced him about historic debate was a great success for Parliament. The millionaires? I hope that the Labour party will, perhaps, mother of Parliaments was watched by our nation and change its view about Aston Martins and Rolls-Royces, we had 90-odd Members participating in the debate. many of which are manufactured in constituencies They spoke from their hearts and when the Division represented by Labour Members of Parliament. came Members from all three major parties voted differently. One point that has not been established, though, is that Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): Will my that debate could not have taken place had the Leader right hon. Friend find time next week for a debate on of the House not personally driven through the e-petitions the law on succession to the throne, particularly the process, and I do not think the Prime Minister has given current inequality of male primogeniture? I ask that we him the credit for Monday’s debate that he deserves. have this debate soon, in the hope that the Commonwealth Could we have a statement from the Leader of the Heads of Government meeting that is currently taking House next week on ensuring that we have more such place might make some progress on this matter. debates? Sir George Young: My hon. Friend will know that the Sir George Young: May I take this opportunity to Prime Minister has made it clear that he finds the congratulate my hon. Friend on his first-class winding-up present law unsatisfactory. It discriminates against women speech to that debate, which I am sure had an important and against people who marry Roman Catholics. He impact on the subsequent Division? My right hon. has made it clear that he has written to the Heads of the Friend the Prime Minister is a firm believer in empowering Commonwealth to try to get agreement. I can only 501 Business of the House27 OCTOBER 2011 Business of the House 502
[Sir George Young] Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning has done. We promised 50,000 extra apprenticeships in 2010-11, but suggest to my hon. Friend that she awaits the outcome we have actually delivered more than 100,000. of the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Australia and sees what my right hon. Friend the Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): May we have a debate Prime Minister has to say on this matter at its conclusion. on what the Government are doing to be more family- friendly? Child care, child tax credits, Sure Start and the Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): May we have a role of health visitors all matter greatly to people in debate on the role and responsibilities of Parliamentary Dover and Deal. Private Secretaries? Is it appropriate in a modern democracy Sir George Young: I welcome my hon. Friend’s question, that Members of Parliament who are neither Ministers which contained within it the answer, as he outlined a nor in the Cabinet should be forced to resign if they number of measures—child tax credit for struggling vote against the Government? Does not that restrict families, early years support for vulnerable two-year-olds, their ability to represent their constituents and more support for child care within universal credit and disproportionately reduce the power of the House? increasing the number of health visitors. The Government would welcome such a debate; perhaps he would like to Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend initiate one in Westminster Hall. and I am sorry that two Parliamentary Private Secretaries left the Government earlier this week. She will know Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): With reference that when somebody is invited to become a Parliamentary to the shadow Leader of the House’s box-set collection Private Secretary, there is an assumed commitment that of TV programmes, I suspect that the shadow Cabinet they will support the Government in the Division Lobby. is currently watching “Lost”. May we please have a If anybody feels unhappy about that, they should not debate on empty homes? There is a real paradox in my become a Parliamentary Private Secretary. If, having local council area in that while the council is pushing become a PPS, someone feels they cannot support the through its top-down housing targets for tens of thousands Government in the Division Lobby, they have to stand of new homes, there are 11,000 empty homes. Local down. I think that is set out in the ministerial code and people find that very hard to explain when the countryside it is a convention that is widely understood on both is being dug up for new homes. sides of the House. Sir George Young: As a former Housing Minister, I Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): May we have a share my hon. Friend’s concern. There are about 350,000 debate on how the one-in, one-out policy of controlling empty houses in this country, which is an affront to regulations is progressing, so that we can determine the those who are waiting for good housing. I commend the extent to which regulations made in this House are work of the Empty Homes Agency. In addition, the being replaced by ones made in Brussels? new homes bonus will apply also to local authorities that bring back into use homes that are currently empty, Sir George Young: We touched on that earlier this and other money is available within the local government week. We are committed to a red tape challenge of budget to encourage local authorities to bring homes scrapping and simplifying regulations that are ineffective back into use. I commend my hon. Friend’s work on and obsolete. We have the one-in, one-out approach this issue, and I hope that all local authorities will do all and I am sure that BIS Ministers will be happy to they can to bring empty homes back into use. respond to detailed questions. We also have Lord Young’s report, which was produced a year ago and made a Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): In my Gloucestershire number of suggestions for relieving the burden on constituency is a huge number of firms that trade with businesses, with the agenda of fostering employment Brazil, but I am very apprehensive about the way in and growth. I would welcome such a debate. which we are developing trade links with Brazil, Russia, India and China—the so-called BRIC economies—because I sense that other countries are doing better than us. Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): I wonder whether Can we put a spotlight on what the Government are the Leader of the House has had time to see the set of doing to give comfort and support to businesses that Rolls-Royce Trent engine fan blades on the green in wish to develop business in the BRIC economies? New Palace Yard, which were produced by the Rolls-Royce factory in Barnoldswick in my constituency. That display Sir George Young: I know that a number of my hon. is part of a series of events to highlight the potential of Friends in BIS and other Departments make export high-value manufacturing and apprenticeships. May we trips abroad with business men to win export orders on have a debate at the earliest opportunity on what progress behalf of this country, and they have undertaken a the Government have made on supporting apprenticeships? number of visits to the markets to which my hon. Friend refers. We have UK Trade & Investment and we Sir George Young: Yes, I bicycled past the turbine and have the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, supported contrasted the horsepower that it represented with the by all the Government, which lead on this work. We horsepower on the bicycle. My hon. Friend might just want to use our network of staff across the globe to have been in the House for BIS questions in which we showcase UK strengths in sectors where we have world- had a very good exchange on apprenticeships. I pay beating capability and we hope to win more export tribute to what my hon. Friend the Minister for Further orders and to provide jobs in my hon. Friend’s constituency. 503 27 OCTOBER 2011 Points of Order 504
Points of Order Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman was doing nicely until he approached the conclusion of his remarks. 1.19 pm There are two real points here. First, a Member who is planning to denounce the conduct or impugn the integrity Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): On a of another Member should notify that Member in point of order, Mr Speaker. I bow to no one in my advance. Secondly, the issue to which the hon. Gentleman admiration for the BBC “Today” programme, but it is refers is properly the property of the Select Committee, not the forum in which Ministers should make important which, I understand, has indeed deliberated upon it. announcements. Today the Minister for Housing and The hon. Gentleman has used his point of order to Local Government, asserting that the big problem for offer his own admonishment of the hon. Member who 8 million social tenants is a lack of mobility, has launched he thinks has misbehaved. I do not think that further HomeSwap Direct, a website—it is not so much “on action by me at this time is required, but the hon. your bike” now, but “on your website.” Had the Minister Gentleman has correctly put on record the fact that the come to the House, we could have debated collapsing Select Committee has had a discussion about the matter. house building, soaring rents, a mortgage market where If the hon. Gentleman will understand, I think it is no one can get mortgages, and the big problem of perfectly reasonable now that we leave it there. rapidly rising unemployment where there are no jobs to move to. Has the Housing Minister indicated his intention to do the House the courtesy of coming to the House to Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): On a point of make the announcement? order, Mr Speaker. You will know that very often a generic issue arises out of the very specific, and I wish Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for to raise a generic issue and seek your guidance. The his point of order. The short answer is that I received no guidance I seek is on the necessity for accuracy in facts notification of any intention by a Minister to make a that are used in debates. Very often the interpretation of statement on this subject. Off the top of my head, and facts will differ, but facts are very important. Yesterday, without undertaking inquiries, I know the hon. Gentleman in the course of a debate, a number of Labour local and the House will appreciate that it is difficult for me authorities were derided for, in the words of the hon. authoritatively to adjudicate on this matter. The reason Member—I said the point is generic, so I will not name why I say that is that I do not know at this stage whether the individual—their “appalling and terrible” record on what has happened is merely the launch of a statement, recycling. My own local authority was mentioned in the or the fulfilment of a policy commitment made on a list, with a 33% rate of recycling. That was inaccurate; previous occasion, or whether this is a new initiative of the actual rate is 51%. I request guidance from you, which the House should first have been informed, but as Mr Speaker, and possibly from “Erskine May”, on the the hon. Gentleman would expect me to do, I shall need for accuracy, or alternatively, the need for Members assume the role of a detective and look into the matter, to return to the House to correct the record, because I better to inform myself, and perhaps the hon. Member suspect that the other Labour local authorities named when I have done so. also have admirable recycling records and would want Hansard to reflect that accurately. Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would not wish to have visited this on your head, but unfortunately the Mr Speaker: There are two simple points in response Scottish National party Member for Perth and North to the hon. Gentleman’s point of order. First, all Members Perthshire (Pete Wishart) repeated a calumny in the take responsibility for, and are responsible for, the content House recently, accusing a Member of threatening another of the statements that they make in the House. Secondly, Member, I believe without telling the Members that it is of course desirable that facts adduced are indeed they were going to be named. I believe the Committee facts, but I know that the hon. Gentleman, who is a very has met since then, and unfortunately the Leader of the experienced Member, will understand when I say that if House was not informed of the outcome of the formal there were to be complete agreement as to the particular meeting of the Select Committee, which clarified and, facts on any issue, let alone all issues, I have a feeling we quite frankly, exonerated the Chair of that Committee would be witnessing the end of the House of Commons— of any threatening behaviour. Since it has been repeated and that isn’t going to happen. in the House, can I ask you to look into this matter and call the SNP Member back to apologise on the Floor of If the appetite of Members for raising points of the House? It is not politics; it is abuse of the House we order—actual or contrived—has now been exhausted, are talking about here. we can proceed to the main business. 505 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 506 Chairmanship) Council of Europe (UK Chairmanship) the European level. That needs to happen not to weaken rights, but to strengthen them, and by so doing, to advance the rule of law, democracy and freedom. 1.25 pm The United Kingdom was one of the principal architects The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): I beg of the European convention on human rights, which is to move, the Council of Europe’s best known instrument. The convention embodies many of the basic rights and That this House has considered the matter of the UK’s Chairmanship of the Council of Europe. freedoms that have been fundamental to English, and then British, law for centuries: fair trial, freedom from Mr Speaker, you will already have seen that debates torture and freedom of speech. Those are rights that we on European matters are a bit like buses: you wait for have enjoyed for hundreds of years. ages and then two of these delightful treats come along in the same week. I am particularly grateful for the Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): While fortunate coincidence of timing that this debate on the my right hon. Friend is talking about the European Council of Europe arrives the week after the final Court of Human Rights, will he acknowledge that the collapse of the Gaddafi regime in Libya, because that Court currently has a backlog of approximately 166,000 provides a point of reflection and of comparison between cases? Is it not high time the Court underwent a thorough what happens in so much of the world and what has review of its working practices and competencies, and is happened in our own continent. The long rule by Gaddafi not our chairmanship of the Council a good time to do based on state-sponsored violence and terror throws that? into sharp relief, in particular, those liberties on which the British people have relied for centuries. Mr Lidington: I completely agree with my hon. Friend. Whatever view Members in any part of the House If the Court is to continue to be treated with respect, it take on particular laws or on how human rights should is important for it to find a way of getting on top of that be given effect here, I think we would all stand united on grotesque backlog of cases, which is in nobody’s interests. the continuing need for and relevance of fundamental I will say more about that later. human rights such as protection from torture, and the right to free speech, assembly and worship. That tradition John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): There in this country of respect for human rights is one reason have obviously been concerns about some of the ways why we are very proud to be taking on the chairmanship in which the convention’s basic rights have been interpreted of the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe. by the European Court of Human Rights. Will the I acknowledge that there are in the House today Government consider during their chairmanship proposing members of the United Kingdom’s delegation to the that certain resolutions of the Parliamentary Assembly Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, should assist the Court in interpreting the basic texts? from the Conservative, Liberal Democrat and Labour parties, and I pay tribute to the work that they do on Mr Lidington: I am sure that my hon. Friend’s behalf of the House and the country, and welcome the suggestions, and indeed proposals from the Parliamentary fact that they will be able to contribute the fruits of Assembly as a body, will be considered seriously in the their experience during this afternoon’s proceedings. course of the debates and conversations that we will As I hope Members will recall, the Council is the have during the six months of our chairmanship and international organisation that helps promote human beyond. rights, democracy and the rule of law across the European continent. The United Kingdom was one of the founders Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): Has not of the organisation. Since its founding treaty was signed the whole process become ludicrously abused? Has my in this building in London in 1949, its membership has right hon. Friend had a chance to read the diaries of grown from 10 countries to 47, encompassing virtually Phil Woolas, the former Immigration Minister, which the entire European continent. I think we in the United reveal that his job was made absolutely impossible. For Kingdom can take pride in the fact that so many other instance, he had to release to Osama bin Laden’s son European countries profess a belief in the importance the file on him, even though he was not living here. The of these fundamental principles, and also recognise the whole process has become abused. What plans has my fact that membership of the Council of Europe and right hon. Friend to repatriate powers on human rights subscription to the European convention on human to this country so that we can have a proper and sound rights have proved a valuable framework within which immigration policy? the emerging democracies of central and eastern Europe have been able to measure their own political development Mr Lidington: I have to tell my hon. Friend, who is a over the past 20 years. distinguished member of the United Kingdom delegation I want this afternoon to advance the case for the to the Parliamentary Assembly and plays an active part central priority of the United Kingdom’s chairmanship: in its proceedings, that reading Mr. Woolas’ diaries is a reform of the European Court of Human Rights. I delight that is still in store for me. I fear that he is trying want to say straight away that we have had, and I am to tempt me on to the question of how the human rights sure will have, lively domestic discussions on human incorporated in the convention are implemented in the rights, and Members will not always agree, but we share United Kingdom. As the House knows, the Government the historic respect for the achievement of the convention. have established an independent commission on human The Government’s priority is to ensure that the European rights, chaired by Leigh Lewis, which is deliberating on Court of Human Rights works more effectively and these matters and considering the different ideas that focuses on cases that actually need to be dealt with at have been proposed. It will report by the end of 2012. 507 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 508 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) Sir Alan Meale (Mansfield) (Lab): Will the Minister Rights. Will he confirm that members of the UK delegation give way? to the Parliamentary Assembly will be invited to participate in the conference? Mr Lidington: I will give way one last time, and then I must make progress. Mr Lidington: I have taken careful note of my hon. Friend’s interest in participating and will ensure that the participation of members of the UK delegation to the Sir Alan Meale: Will the Minister confirm a bit of Parliamentary Assembly is properly considered. I will information? As he touched on earlier, there are about make sure that I consider it myself. 800 million people, comprising 47 nations, in the greater European area. I hope that he will confirm for Members Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South) (LD): The on both sides of the House that, on all the judgments real problem with the backlog is that reforms to the that the Court has made so far, this country has never Court cannot restructure the backlog or effectively fillet refused to endorse the Court’s findings. out any of the cases that might prove to be inadmissible. One of the prime objectives of our chairmanship must Mr Lidington: Yes, the hon. Gentleman is right. be to find a unified view that would facilitate that filleting process, and thus allow the backlog to be The convention played an important role after the handled properly. second world war in re-establishing democracy and the rule of law across western Europe. It played a vital role Mr Lidington: I do not disagree with my hon. Friend. after the cold war in leading the former states of the Soviet Union and its satellites to start adopting the The second reason also explains why the backlog has principles of democratic liberalism. The convention been allowed to develop. The Court has at times been remains crucial in tackling the murder of journalists in too ready to substitute its own judgment for that of Russia, for example, or questions of religious freedom national courts and Parliaments. The European Court in Turkey. There are also telling recent examples of its of Human Rights was never intended by its founders to relevance here at home—for example, in preventing the be an additional tier of appeal for routine domestic misuse of stop-and-search powers. judgments. No court could ever hope to offer redress on all matters to 800 million people. National courts are The problem is not with the fundamental principles best placed to understand national problems and traditions of human rights expressed through the convention, but of human rights. Enforcing rights in situations where there are real issues that rightly cause concern in this the drafters of the convention never intended them to House and more widely—issues that, as my hon. Friend be is the wrong direction of travel for the Court, and the Member for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) that situation is getting worse and is undermining the pointed out, matter to all countries that are party to the Court’s authority and efficiency. convention and members of the Council of Europe. Those relate to the operation of the Court in Strasbourg. Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab): The United Kingdom is a strong supporter of the Can the Minister give a few examples in a UK context, Court and recognises its important role, but it is not of where the court has been guilty of depriving us of working as it should, for at least two reasons. national sovereignty? First, as my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds rightly said, it is struggling under a huge workload, and Mr Lidington: I ask the hon. Lady simply to look at drowning under a backlog of more than 150,000 cases, the sheer volume of cases before the Court. We argue which is growing by roughly 20,000 additional cases that there needs to be a system under which the principle each year. The eightfold increase in case loads since of subsidiarity, which the Court is already supposed to 2001 shows that a sensible refocusing on what really observe, is given greater weight. That will require not matters is not a subject that can simply be deferred for just a United Kingdom view from the chair, but consensus another day; it is an urgent priority. among member states. We are talking to colleagues throughout the Council of Europe about the right way That urgency is illustrated further by the fact that forward, because what we are seeking to do certainly more than 90% of cases before the Court, when they does not come from any hostility to the Court as an finally get to the top of the queue and are properly institution. In fact, concerns about the backlog, the case considered, or found to be inadmissible, simply do not load and the damage being done to its reputation are come within the scope of the convention, or the procedural widely shared not only among state parties, but by the rules are found not to have been observed. For cases secretary-general and the authorities in the Council involving the United Kingdom that figure is higher. itself. Roughly 97% of cases brought against the United Kingdom are found to be inadmissible—and that is before we get Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): on to whether in the other cases—the minority—the Will the Minister give way on that point? finding is for or against the country alleged to have broken the terms of the convention. The backlog is the Mr Lidington: I will give way once more, then I really first reason why there is an urgent need to reform the am going to make some progress. court. Michael Connarty: I thank the Minister. I am trying Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): My right to be helpful, because I totally agree with and follow his hon. Friend announced yesterday that the Government logic on the backlog, but when he states that the Court will host a conference at Wilton Park on the theme of was never meant to be a court of appeal against a the 2020 vision for the European Court of Human national court’s ruling, surely that logic is wrong, because 509 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 510 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Michael Connarty] chair of the Council, so will he assure Cypriots listening to this debate that we will do all we can and work there cannot be an allowance, for example, for the tirelessly to ensure that the Cyprus problem, as it is now Ukrainian court that put the country’s former President called, is satisfactorily concluded? in jail for carrying out policies that its Parliament had decided. There must be somewhere for people to appeal Mr Lidington: With respect, I may correct the hon. on human rights grounds, and that is the Court. I Gentleman, because the chairmanship proceeds in presume the Minister meant that the Court could not alphabetical sequence, so the Albanians will take over provide redress in all cases—but in specific cases of from us. I can certainly assure him, however, that the such high contestability there must be a court that is Foreign Secretary and I remain completely committed above national, political courts. to doing all that lies within our power to work for an outcome in Cyprus that brings about the creation of a Mr Lidington: I do not differ from the hon. Gentleman bi-zonal and bi-communal federation, with equal rights in principle, but we need effective criteria that everyone— for all communities, and in compliance with the relevant from the judges of the Court to the states parties—will United Nations Security Council resolutions. It is not accept as enabling the Court to differentiate properly for the United Kingdom to determine what happens in between cases that should be considered at that European Cyprus, because the process has to be Cypriot led if it is level and those that ought to have been dealt with to work and if there is to be an enduring accord, but we according to the legal systems of states parties that have give what support we can to the communities in Cyprus demonstrated good traditions of respecting human rights. and to the work of the UN Secretary-General and his special envoy, Alexander Downer. All this means that there is a clear and pressing case for reform, and all 47 members of the Council of Sir Alan Meale rose— Europe have already signed up to a reform process. The goal of our chairmanship is to drive forward the changes Mr Lidington: If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, that began in Council meetings at Interlaken and Izmir, I will not give way, because he has had one bite of the and to agree a final package that makes a real impact on cherry and I want to make progress. I do not want to be the operation of the Court. sidetracked into a further debate about Cyprus, which I I announced, in a written statement to Parliament am sure the House will have an opportunity to discuss yesterday, our full set of chairmanship priorities, following in the future. my discussion on Tuesday with our friend and ally the We have a unique opportunity to secure improvements Council of Europe secretary-general Thorbjørn Jagland. to the Court, to enhance its credibility, the rule of law My statement set out more detail on the reform for and the protection of human rights and to ensure that which we are pressing. It included proposals that would the legitimate decisions and traditions of national courts make the Court more efficient to enable it to deal with and legal systems are properly respected. its backlog of applications, would reinforce the idea that the Court’s role was a subsidiary one, with states Hon. Members will be only too aware of the domestic having the primary responsibility to protect convention backdrop to the programme, about which there is great rights, and would ensure that the best possible processes interest abroad. The House will know, too, that the were in place for nominating judges to the Court, and Government have established an independent commission that the Court’s case law was clear and consistent. with a remit to investigate the creation of a UK Bill of Rights, which would incorporate and build on all our How we will do that? Reform requires the agreement obligations under the convention. I hope that the of all 47 member states, and there is no getting round commission’s work will assist in bringing clarity to an that fact, so we will accord the highest political priority area of contentious debate, and indeed it has already to securing consensus on the necessary reforms by advised the Government very usefully on Court reform, means of a political declaration at the end of our but to avoid any doubt let me reaffirm that in the chairmanship. That declaration would record political Government’s mind there is no question of the UK agreement to a package of reforms and set the scene for leaving the European convention on human rights. The later implementation under subsequent chairmanships. coalition’s programme for government makes very clear The declaration, we hope, will include, where necessary, our commitment to the convention and to the values it amendments to the procedural sections of the convention, embodies. and provide the basis for a decision of the Committee The Attorney-General, my right hon. and learned of Ministers, to be adopted at its annual meeting on Friend the Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve), 14 May 2012. commented on this subject very eloquently on Monday No one should be in any doubt that delivering those just gone, saying: goals will take time and a lot of intensive and complicated “The United Kingdom signed the Convention on the first day negotiations, but I do believe that the winds of change it was open for signature...The United Kingdom was the first are in our favour, and if we achieve the reform that we country to ratify the Convention the following year. The United seek, we stand to gain a stronger Council of Europe Kingdom will not be the first country to leave the Convention.” and a more effective Court, focused better on real I have spoken at length about Court reform, but our substantive breaches of human rights. goals for our chairmanship touch on other significant matters, and I would like to close by turning briefly to Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab): them. On declarations, there is no more fundamental right than that of a person to live freely and independently in Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): I thank their own country without fear of intimidation. The the Minister for setting out the policy so clearly, and I Minister will be aware that Cyprus follows the UK as have had an opportunity to look at the priorities and 511 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 512 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) objectives of the chairmanship. He mentions the Bill of Vienna and has some spurious objectives, increases its Rights commission’s interim advice, and it contains budget for allegedly doing a human rights job on behalf some good recommendations on Court reform, particularly of the 27 states. those based on the model of the International Criminal Court, whereby Strasbourg ought to look at only the Mr Lidington: My hon. Friend, who is the leader of most serious violations or fundamental freedoms. Is the United Kingdom delegation to the Parliamentary that the mandate which the Government will look to Assembly of the Council of Europe, makes his point achieve with their European partners? cogently. He tempts me on to a much bigger debate about European Union expenditure, but I will confine Mr Lidington: We take all the independent commission’s myself to the matter before us. advice very seriously, and we look forward to the fruits The Government take the need for budgetary control of its later discussions, but, certainly, strengthening the over European Union agencies very seriously indeed. principle of subsidiarity in the Court’s work is central The growth of such expenditure and the proliferation of to the programme of action that we envisage during our agencies within the European Union have been overlooked chairmanship. for too long. We have been making strong representations In addition to the issues that I have already covered, to the Commission about that, and have sought to build we will continue actively to support Secretary-General alliances with other EU member states to secure the Jagland’s programme of reform of the Council of Europe sort of reform and budgetary discipline that my hon. as an organisation. He has made good progress, including Friend rightly wants. a reduced and more focused set of programmes, and I spoke to him this week about priorities for the final Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) stages of the reform programme. (LD) rose— In particular, I am pleased to say that the UK has Mr Lidington: I must make some progress, because succeeded in persuading the 46 other member states to other hon. Members want to contribute to the debate. keep the Council of Europe budget under strict control, with zero real growth for the next two years, subject to During our chairmanship, we will work to combat strict conditions on wider efficiency reforms and any discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation and inflation increase remaining below 2%. We will work gender identity across Europe. The Government are with our partners in the Council of Europe to promote committed to using their relationship with other countries an open internet, not only on access and content, but on to advocate strongly for changes to discriminatory practices freedom of expression. That is also a key policy priority, and laws that criminalise homosexuality in other countries. and one of the issues to be addressed at the London We will work towards a more effective and efficient conference on cyber-space, which my right hon. Friend role for the Council of Europe in supporting local and the Foreign Secretary will host on 1 November. Our regional democracy. The Council has a significant chairmanship is an ideal opportunity to advance our programme of activities in this area, including monitoring objectives through international co-operation, and to and sharing expertise. The UK supports that, but wants this end we will seek to ensure that the Council of it to be streamlined and more carefully targeted. Europe’s internet governance strategy is adopted. Finally, we will support strengthening the rule of law in member states. We will work towards practical Mr Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con): If I am fortunate recommendations in this area, in co-operation with our enough to catch your eye, Madam Deputy Speaker, I partners in the Committee of Ministers, the secretariat will return to the internet problem later, because it is and the Council of Europe’s advisory body on constitutional serious. matters, the European Commission for Democracy through Law, which is usually referred to as the Venice Commission. I referred to the Council of Europe’s budget in the Hemicycle, and suggested that it might be cut, but that The Council of Europe is an important institution, word is not in the lexicon. Europe does not understand whose values we share, and in whose proud record of the possibility of cutting a budget. It only ever talks achievement there is much to applaud. I hope that all about an increase. Why are we considering an increase? hon. Members will support the UK’s efforts during our chairmanship to deliver improvements in the areas I have set out. Efforts to spread democracy, human rights Mr Lidington: Ambitions must sometimes be tempered and the rule of law are profoundly in our national by the need to obtain the necessary consensus. In the interest and that of nations throughout Europe. If context of getting 46 other countries to agree, the freeze achieved, our objectives will not only benefit our citizens, that I talked about is a pretty good outcome. Further but will have the potential to make a real difference for encouragement is that the combination of the freeze in the good in the lives of people across our continent and the Council of Europe’s budget and the recalculation of beyond. the relative contributions of member states to that budget means that the United Kingdom will pay a smaller proportion in 2012 than we did in 2011. That is 1.55 pm a good outcome of our negotiations. Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): This is an important and timely debate, and it is absolutely Mr Robert Walter (North Dorset) (Con): Discussions right that we have an opportunity to discuss in the on the budget take place in Strasbourg, and 27 of the House the UK’s forthcoming chairmanship of the Council 47 member states are members of the European Union. of Europe. However, it is a shame that the most pro- Those 27 member states are sitting idly by while the European member of the Cabinet is not here to open Fundamental Rights Agency, which was established in the debate as was planned until late this morning. 513 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 514 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Emma Reynolds] commend them for that. I want to join the Europe Minister in commending the work of the UK delegation There are now 47 members of the Council, and the to the Council of Europe. period of chairmanship is six months, so this opportunity does not come around often. According to my rudimentary Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): The mathematics, the next time the UK will be in the chair hon. Lady mentioned some distinguished contributions will around 2035. The last time the UK was in the chair to the Council of Europe by Conservatives in past was in the early 1990s when the Conservative party was years. Does she agree that the leader of our delegation, falling out about another European institution—the my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Mr Walter), European Union. I sense a bit of déjà vu, and I trust has played a very distinguished part in the current that this afternoon’s debate will be less heated and process to change the rules of the Parliamentary Assembly divided than the debate earlier this week. to make the way in which it operates more streamlined Our membership of the Council of Europe has been and effective? supported by successive Governments of different political colours and persuasions for the last six decades. It is Emma Reynolds: I join the hon. Gentleman in that worth reflecting on the history of the institution, which view. I recognise that Members across this House have was shaped by the aftermath of the second world war played very important roles in the Council of Europe at and the defeat of fascism, and later by the collapse of different times. communism. When Winston Churchill made his speech Despite the fact that a Conservative Government at the 1949 gathering in Strasbourg, he talked of an were the driving force behind the European convention “ancient city still scarred by the wounds of war”. on human rights, a Labour Government put those The horror of that global conflict, and the destruction rights into UK law in 1999, and we are proud of that. and loss of life throughout Europe, led to the growing The Human Rights Act 1998 gives British citizens the realisation that avoiding future wars had to be a priority. right to bring cases before British courts rather than having to petition European judges directly. Although That realisation brought together some of the leading we remain committed to the European convention and statesmen of post-war Europe, with much of the earliest the European Court, we also recognise that the Court thinking coming from Winston Churchill. Other needs reform. The Government have said today that its Conservative politicians played a role, particularly former reform should be a priority for our forthcoming Home Secretary David Maxwell Fyfe, who was instrumental chairmanship, and I support that. in drawing up the European convention on human rights, which Clement Attlee’s Labour Government ratified As has been mentioned, the Government set up an in 1950. A cross-party consensus held then and over the independent commission that has presented interim following decades, and I hope that it will do so today. recommendations concerning that reform. The commission highlighted three areas that need to be addressed: the need substantially to reduce the number of cases brought Mr Leigh: We all accept that, but the fact is that the before the Court; the need to consider the remedies that process has gone way beyond what was envisaged by the Court may grant; and the need to improve the people such as Winston Churchill. process of selecting high-quality judges. The hon. Lady presumably wants to protect vulnerable women. Going back again to the diaries of former Sir Alan Meale: At the moment, the judges are elected immigration Minister, he wrote that his proposal to in the Assembly by all Members of the Assembly, but increase the marriage age from 18 to 21 for a family visa the Interlaken process proposes to diminish that democratic would be overturned by judicial review because of the selection mechanism. The current process involves not judges constantly referring to the convention on human just the election of the judges but the interviewing of rights. It is anti-human rights now, and we must reform the candidates, in which two criteria must be fulfilled: it fundamentally. first, they have to be fully qualified to stand for election; and secondly, there must be at least one woman among Emma Reynolds: I agree that the court needs to be the three candidates. I hope that my hon. Friend is not reformed, and I will come to that, but I do not agree suggesting that we should move away from those principles. with everything that the hon. Gentleman said. Like the Minister for Europe, I have not had a chance to read my Emma Reynolds: I am a great supporter of gender former colleague’s memoirs. equality, but the selection process needs to be improved. The Council today is very different from when it was first established, and Europe has changed beyond Mr Mike Hancock: For those of us who have had the recognition. The rush of countries to join the Council privilege of being in the Council of Europe for any of Europe in the years following the fall of communism length of time, it is clear that it is not the process of extended its membership and reach significantly. Today, selection by the Council of Europe that affects the the Council of Europe has 47 member countries, covering calibre of judges but the pathetic selection process that 800 million people, and a vast land mass stretching goes on in member states after people have put their from Reykjavik to Vladivostok—that is a tongue twister. names forward. On most occasions, that leaves the It has led the way in protecting and promoting the rule Council of Europe having to pick the least worst of a of law, human rights and democracy in Europe. Many bad bunch. hon. Members, past and present, have taken part in the Council of Europe’s election monitoring to ensure that Emma Reynolds: I am sure that the Europe Minister democracy is upheld in every member state, and I has noted the hon. Gentleman’s concerns. 515 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 516 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) Any reform of the Court must begin by addressing Mr Raab: I agree that we should not automatically, in the crippling backlog of cases before it; I understand a knee-jerk way, blame Strasbourg for everything. However, that there are 150,000 cases and that number is increasing has the hon. Lady seen the comments by the Lord Chief at a rate of 20,000 a year. I hope that at the end of the Justice, which read: six months in which our Government have the “I would like to say that maybe Strasbourg shouldn’t win and chairmanship, the Opposition will be in a position to doesn’t need to win”? give them credit for pushing forward with these reforms. Does she accept, as the Lord Chief Justice does, that Indeed, the test of success for the Government is not there is a legitimate debate about the expansion of only what they do in the six months when they are in human rights through judicial legislation? charge, but whether they are able to inspire successive chairmanships of the Court and the Council to take on Emma Reynolds: I do accept that, and I think it is a and continue their reforms. debate that we will have today. Until now, I have been fairly consensual, but I am Although modernisation and reform of the Council about to embark on a section of my speech that is of Europe are needed, the values that underpinned its perhaps not so consensual. formation and membership are just as valid today as they were in 1950, and we should all be proud of those Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): values. Who wrote it?
Emma Reynolds: I wrote it, thank you very much. 2.7 pm That is very patronising of the hon. Gentleman. I might Mr Robert Walter (North Dorset) (Con): As the be a young blonde woman, but I am able to write my Minister for Europe said in his opening remarks, this is own speeches. an interesting week in the House of Commons when we There is another area where the Government need to have two debates on Europe. If I may say so, it is good that take action. It is incumbent on this Government to we are debating Europe, and not necessarily the European tackle the misconceptions about the European convention Union, today, although I will touch on the relationship on human rights. I am sure that the Minister is only too between the Council of Europe and the European Union. aware of how some members of his own Government As we have already heard, the Council of Europe have peddled myths about human rights legislation to dates back to 1949 and is very much dedicated to further certain political arguments, and of how there is democracy, human rights and the rule of law. We can be a confusion—sometimes, it seems, a conflation—of the proud to have been one of its founding fathers. It now rulings and activities of the European Court of Human runs to 47 member states across the continent of Europe. Rights, the Council of Europe, the European Union The only states that are not members are Belarus, and the European Court of Justice. In some cases, there Kosovo and Vatican City—which I understand is not seems to be a deliberate lumping together of any institution yet a democracy. with the word “Europe” in its title, with the assumption that Europe has a malign influence on this country. Mr Leigh: Nor should it ever be. [Laughter.] Will the Minister reassure us that the Government will take a lead on challenging such misconceptions, not Mr Walter: As the hon. Member for Wolverhampton only in his party but in the country, and champion the North East (Emma Reynolds) pointed out, the fact that positive role that our membership of the Council of there are 47 member states means that it will be 23 years Europe has played in furthering human rights and before we get the chairmanship of the Committee of democracy in the UK and in other countries across the Ministers again. It is therefore very important that we continent? After all, taking on the mantle of chairmanship make good use of our six months in the chairmanship brings with it certain responsibilities, one of which, that starts in a week or so. surely, is demonstrating accuracy in debates on human This House, as has been pointed out, is represented in rights. Let us hope to hear no more misleading myths the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. about cats or other bogus stories. Eighteen Members from both Houses of Parliament Labour Members remain firmly committed to the serve as full members of the Parliamentary Assembly Council of Europe and the European convention on and a further 18 stand ready as substitutes. human rights, but we recognise that this does not necessarily mean sticking to the status quo, but reforming the Jim Sheridan: Notwithstanding the hon. Gentleman’s Court. We want the Government to use their six-month enthusiasm for Europe, does he accept that his party’s chairmanship to push forward with reforms to ensure delegation is not made up of the most enthusiastic that the Council continues to meet the aims and objectives people on European matters? Hopefully, after the British in a way that is beneficial for all member countries, chairmanship, we will have a more enlightened delegation including the UK. Upholding a universal notion of of Government Members to the Council of Europe. human rights is a sign of a civilised nation and something that we should be proud of, not something that should Mr Walter: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his be rubbished, heckled or blamed at every opportunity. intervention, but I think he will find that more members As I underlined in my introduction, successive of the delegation are present on my side of the House Governments of different political persuasions have than on his, where there are only four. The delegates supported our membership of the Council of Europe from my party play an active role in the proceedings of and obligations that come with it. There is a long the Parliamentary Assembly, not least my hon. Friend the history and tradition in our country of which we should Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope), who chairs the be proud. committee on migration, refugees and population. 517 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 518 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Mr Walter] by EU member states, but more particularly by non-EU member states. If there was a judgment in the European One of the powers of the Parliamentary Assembly is Court of Human Rights against an EU member state, to elect judges to the European Court of Human Rights. would the EU member states in the Committee of I have often heard statements in the British press, and Ministers, when it came to enforcing that judgment, occasionally from colleagues, that we should not be vote as a bloc or would they do what they do today, subject to the judgments of unelected and unaccountable which is to decide individually how the judgment is to judges. Well, we do not have any elected judges in this be implemented? country, but we do have an elected British judge who serves on the European Court of Human Rights. Sandra Osborne: I, too, pay tribute to the fantastic Perhaps I may correct one other myth. Often we are job that the hon. Gentleman does as the leader of the told that Europe has acquired a flag and an anthem. delegation. Does he agree that unless the EU is subject Those are not the flag and the anthem of the European to the same rules as the countries, some non-EU member Union. They were adopted as far back as 1955 by the states may use that as an excuse not to carry out their Council of Europe. Just like Liverpool football club, obligations? which also has a flag and an anthem, the Council of Europe has not yet become a nation state. Mr Walter: I think that the hon. Lady is right. She is I want to deal with the United Kingdom agenda and making the point for me that we must be seen to be fair one important aspect of it in particular. During our and even-handed in the way we enforce judgments. That chairmanship of the Committee of Ministers, an important might become even more of a problem. ongoing issue that may make some progress is the This issue is already taken account of in the draft of accession of the European Union to the European the accession of the EU. I am afraid that the Lisbon convention on human rights. The question of European treaty is quoted in aid on this matter. If there was a Union accession engenders mixed responses. Among judgment against an institution of the European Union, the non-EU members of the Council of Europe, it is such as the Commission, the European Court of Justice considered to be a good thing. They wonder why the or the European Central Bank, the 27 EU member institutions of the European Union should not be covered states—or 28 as there will be by the time this is implemented, by the European convention on human rights and why with the accession of Croatia—would be obliged under the European Court of Human Rights should not have the Lisbon treaty to vote as a bloc. That brings into jurisdiction over its institutions. In that spirit, I believe question the whole history of fairness and even-handedness that we should take this matter forward. My concern is in the Committee of Ministers. about the manner of the participation of the European The reason given for that is that if there was a Union. judgment against the EU, it would be up to the 27 EU member states to implement that judgment. They therefore Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): I pay tribute have to act as one and as a party. That is fine, but it to my hon. Friend for the conscientious and diligent sounds rather like they will be judge, jury and executioner. way in which he has led the British delegation to the We have to question seriously how we will take that Council of Europe. I agree with the remarks with which matter forward. I would be interested to hear the Minister’s he has prefaced his comments on the accession of the response to that in his summing up. European Union. Does he agree, none the less, that we The next point may sound rather technical, but it would all be the losers, in particular the non-EU member goes back to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor’s states in the Council of Europe, if the accession of the comment earlier that we are developing a situation in EU resulted in it appearing that there were two classes which there will be European Union mechanisms and of members in the Council of Europe: EU member institutions that all 27 member states are not involved states and non-EU member states? in, but only the 17 eurozone members, such as the European financial stability facility and the European Mr Walter: I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. I Central Bank. If there was a judgment against one of will come on to say why I believe that there could be those entities in the European Court of Human Rights, dangerous developments on this issue, particularly in would we vote as 27 member states or would the 17 vote relation to the Committee of Ministers, of which the together? Would the 10 non-eurozone members be let United Kingdom is about to take the chair, and its off the obligation in the Lisbon treaty to vote as one? I voting procedures when European Union matters are would again be interested to hear the Minister’s response under consideration. At the Dispatch Box earlier today, on that. my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, in relation to the eurozone countries, that it was Mr Gale: It gets a bit worse than that. There is a thing against his basic view that there should be any form of called the transfrontier broadcasting directive, which is caucusing within the Council of Ministers. I think that a European Union instrument. There is also a thing that is absolutely right. called the transfrontier broadcasting convention, which I remind my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe is a Council of Europe convention that preceded the that when he issued his statement yesterday on the UK directive. The convention needs updating and the Council agenda for the Council of Europe, he also issued a of Europe was in the process of doing so intelligently written ministerial statement on voting by European and in line with technical developments. The European Union member states in multilateral organisations. The Commissioner responsible for broadcasting has told the EU, of course, is not a member of the Council of Council of Europe and its 47 members, many of which Europe at the moment, but it aspires to be one. I are not members of the European Union, as my hon. therefore raise a concern that has been raised not only Friend has pointed out, that we cannot discuss the 519 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 520 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) matter. What right does the European Union have to fair and equal right across the Council of Europe area, say to the Council of Europe—the greater body—that it it affects how they look at the Council and its judgments. can or cannot discuss something? It also affects whether those judgments are enforceable and will stick. Mr Walter: My hon. Friend makes a very significant point about the sovereignty of member states, whether Mr Walter: I thank my hon. Friend for that point, they be members of the European Union or of the because it sums up the fact that what I have described Council of Europe. I believe that the sovereignty of the will bring into question the legitimacy of the decisions 47 member states of the Council of Europe should be of the Committee of Ministers when it comes to enforcing absolute in the case of a Council of Europe convention. judgments that have been handed down by the Court. I want to move on to one aspect of the United Sir Alan Meale: Like the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues, Kingdom’s agenda for our chairmanship, with which I pay tribute to him for his work at the Council of the Minister also dealt at length. It is the reform of the Europe over many years. Members of all parties will European Court of Human Rights, which not only we agree that he does a fine job. I apologise, but I will have in this country but many member states across Europe to leave the debate shortly to chair the meeting in welcome. Westminster Hall. There seems to be some dispute about what the On the hon. Gentleman’s point about the sovereignty backlog of cases in the Court is at the moment. The last of nations, what about Turkey? Its has refused to accept figure that I heard, which was at the beginning of this the outcome of the Louzides case on the confiscation of month from the secretary-general of the Council of property—it has paid up, but it has never accepted it. Europe, was 162,000 cases, and growing at the rate of What about its current threat that if Cyprus is given the 2,000 a month. I therefore welcome the approach that presidency of the Council of Ministers, it will leave the we are taking as the new chair of the Committee of Council of Europe and not pursue any path towards Ministers. entry into the European Union?
Mr Walter: I think the hon. Gentleman knows that I Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con): Is my am an avowed supporter of Turkish membership of the hon. Friend concerned that most of us sitting in the European Union, but that does not mean that I will in Chamber today might not be here when the end of that any way make excuses for the Turkish Government’s list is reached? Does that bother him? non-compliance with their international obligations. I also regret the Turkish Prime Minister’s statement that Mr Walter: I thank my hon. Friend for making that Turkey would not participate in any discussions with point, which brings me neatly to the next one that I the EU should Cyprus take on the presidency of the wanted to make. Council of Ministers. That is a wrong decision, as I I welcome the work of the commission on a Bill of have said to many Turkish colleagues. Rights under the chairmanship of Sir Leigh Lewis. It To return to the question of EU accession, I wish to was set up to advise on a British Bill of Rights, but at refer for a moment to the role of the European Parliament. the request of the Prime Minister the first document It has been conceded that when it comes to the question that it published was advice to the Government on the of the election of judges, the European Parliament will reform of the European Court of Human Rights. It has have the same rights as the largest member states. We expressed a view on that question, and I shall come to are one of those five largest member states. However, that in a moment. I also welcome the interest taken by the draft arrangements go on to give the European the Joint Committee on Human Rights, which I know Parliament special treatment, which I think is unjustified. has been to Strasbourg and met the Court and is It will have an ex officio place on the sub-committee considering that very important issue. that interviews the candidates for the post of judge in I wish to deal with four issues related to the reform of the European Court of Human Rights. As the leader of the Court. The first, to which a number of Members one of the other large delegations, I ask why I cannot have alluded, is the quality of the judges. Under the appoint an ex officio member to that sub-committee on existing procedure, each member state puts forward the basis that I should have the same voting rights as the three nominees when there is a vacancy for a judge of European Parliament. that nationality.Under the new procedures, those candidates Under its internal mechanisms, the European Parliament are to be interviewed by the Committee of Ministers will have the power to veto the three candidates who are and by a sub-committee of the Parliamentary Assembly on the shortlist. No other Parliament has that power. It set up specifically for the purpose of making will also have the power to be on the sub-committee recommendations on which of the three judges is probably that interviews the candidates. I contend that that will the best candidate. It then comes down to the Parliamentary create an uneven playing field, and I hope we will resist Assembly to vote on those judges. it when we come to debate EU accession. There has been phenomenal criticism in the Parliamentary Assembly that the judges nominated are Oliver Heald: Does my hon. Friend agree that one not up to the quality that one expects in such an thing that is quite hard to understand for people who important court, which deals with human rights across are not on the Council, or regularly attending it, is that the continent. Some of the judges are academics, and some of the largest member countries are not in the some are only what I would call administrative lawyers, EU? They are proud countries, and sadly often ones but I believe that judges should have experience of that are on the receiving end of judgments of the Court. sitting as court judges, preferably in the supreme court If the arrangements that are made do not seem to be of their member state. They should not be people who 521 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 522 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Mr Walter] Oliver Heald: By way of a rider to my hon. Friend’s point on seeking leave to appeal on a point of law, have applied because they have been teaching a nice which I basically agree with, occasionally, a court in a academic course specialising in human rights at a university country refuses leave in circumstances that do not hold for the past few years and thought, “Why not go to water legally. Should there not at that point be a possibility Strasbourg for a few years?” That is not the right way to of applying for leave to appeal directly to the Court in select candidates. Strasbourg? The Parliamentary Assembly is considering another matter of some concern. If one of those judges drops Mr Walter: My hon. Friend is right to raise that out and is unable to perform his or her duties, the point. We must strike the right balance—strike out member state in question can nominate ad hoc judges spurious claims but not genuine ones. In some cases, to sit in their place in the Court. In the past four years, those making genuine claims could be refused leave to 77 ad hoc judges appointed to sit in for judges who were appeal for, if I may say, political reasons, when their unable to be in Strasbourg were involved in 516 judgments. case should go to the Strasbourg Court. In this country, I am not sure, and there is some doubt, whether those I have every confidence that the Supreme Court or any ad hoc judges are of the same quality, because they do other lower court would act in the interests of the law not go through the same selection procedure. They are and equity, but I might question the courts in a number not nominated, they are not interviewed either by the of other member states—I will not name them in the committee of Ministers or by the sub-committee of the Chamber. Parliamentary Assembly, and they are certainly not My third point concerns the competence of the Court voted for by the Parliamentary Assembly. I am not sure and its relationship with national Parliaments and sovereign that the spirit of the convention is being implemented if member states. That the House debated and voted we allow those 77 ad hoc judges to sit in judgment. overwhelmingly against prisoner voting rights showed The second and most important point raised by my that we in this country feel that somebody committed to right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe was on jail for an indictable offence should have their voting subsidiarity and the filtering of cases, causing the backlog. rights taken away while in prison. That is at variance Is the ECHR the final court of appeal for the 800 million with the judgment of the Court. I am not a lawyer, but people who live on the continent of Europe? I contend in my view it is absolutely right that a court can sentence that it is not. I believe that it exists to act in partnership somebody to prison and so deny their liberty in several with our national supreme courts and that it should not areas. In sentencing them to prison, we are not infringing be used as the final court of appeal. A number of most of their convention rights—for example, we are members of the delegation met the secretary-general of not infringing their right to life or imposing on them the Council of Europe on Tuesday to discuss that. He inhuman and degrading treatment. Instead, we are deciding said that—this is even worse—the majority of the cases to deny them certain liberties—for example, by not before the Court are involve people using it not as their allowing them to go home to their family every night, final court of appeal, but their court of first instance. In we are denying them the right to a family life. the majority of cases, people are disgruntled by something that has happened in their locality—a remote part of Mr Binley: Do the people sent to prison not have the Russia or wherever—and they do not use the Russian choice about whether they go to prison, and should that legal system first and foremost, but go straight to not be a major consideration? Furthermore, is this not a Strasbourg. We must stop that from happening. constitutional right, rather than a human right? I know People who appeal to the Supreme Court in this that that takes us on to aspects of law, but these are the country, or even to the Court of Appeal on their way up things that make people very angry. to the Supreme Court, must seek leave to do so. We must create a situation like that. Requiring people to Mr Walter: Of course, my hon. Friend is absolutely seek leave to appeal would mean that a judge in this right. This is the point that we are making. We could country or another member state would determine whether have a wider debate about why people commit crimes such a case is admissible, or whether it should be heard and why they go to prison, but my specific point is by a national supreme court and whether that should be about the denial of liberty and what convention rights the end of the road. that denial of liberty impinges on. It is accepted that some rights in the convention can legitimately be denied. Mr Leigh: The European Court often gets blamed I am interested that Mr Hirst, when he went to Strasbourg, unfairly for judicial activism, but the real judicial activism did not say that he was being denied the right to a is happening in our own courts, because the convention family life by being in prison and ask why he could not is incorporated in our law. That was the big mistake, have his wife and children there. He picked on one and I am constantly referring to it, which is why I emotive issue—his voting and democratic rights—but I intervened earlier. In a sense, the focus of the debate is think that it is absolutely right that this Parliament wrong. We cannot focus only on the Court in Strasbourg; decide the voting rights of prisoners, and if it decides we must also focus on our own courts. that prisoners should not have a vote, so be it. That is part of our national sovereignty. It is a matter for Mr Walter: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That national legislatures, not the Court. is why the Government were right to set up the commission My fourth point concerns the backlog. As I mentioned, on a Bill of Rights, which will consider whether the the figure that I have is 162,000 cases, growing by 2,000 Human Rights Act 1998 should be replaced by a British a month. I commend the commission on a Bill of Bill of Rights that better reflects the sentiments he Rights and its advice on this matter: it expressed concern expresses. that, whatever reforms we came up with for the Court, 523 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 524 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) they would not deal with the cases currently in the Council of Europe, as well as its relevance in the modern system, and it recommended that we find a way to clear world. Today is obviously an opportunity to debate the the backlog. One of the commission’s proposals, which Government’s priorities for the UK chairmanship, but is worth taking forward, is that across Europe are we also need strongly to reaffirm our commitment to retired judges experienced in human rights law who human rights, democracy and the rule of law at international might be brought out of retirement on, say, a one-year level, as well as the level of the nation state. contract, subject to their being vetted, interviewed and As we have heard, the UK was a founder member in so on, and that they be given responsibility solely for 1949 and, two years later, was the first country to ratify going through the list of 162,000 cases, deciding which the European convention on human rights, which is at are admissible and, if necessary, immediately sending the heart of the Council of Europe agenda. In the them to the Court for judgment. post-war era there was a common desire to build up international co-operation so that communal solutions Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): Did the commission could be found to global problems. Never again would not also recommend that the judges be able to dismiss the world erupt into terrible bloody wars. There would cases, in order to reduce their number, saying, “We also be basic individual rights and freedoms, and the cannot deal with this anymore.” The figure of 162,000 is development of democratic Governments. As with the ginormous. We would never get through them. United Nations, that was the context that gave birth to the Council of Europe. We need only consider the wars Mr Walter: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Of that have, unfortunately continued despite all the efforts course, we cannot get through them. We know that to avoid them, the ongoing threat of terrorism and the about 97% of those cases are inadmissible and could be continuing struggle for human rights and democracy—as got rid of straightaway, but we need somebody to sit witnessed most recently in the Arab spring—to realise down, go through the paperwork and say that they are that there remains a fundamental need for a body such inadmissible. If that were done, we might be able as the Council of Europe to ensure that individual immediately to bring before the Court the few thousand countries not only sign up to promoting human rights cases that lie in the balance, or use this coterie of retired for all their citizens, but live up to their responsibilities judges to sit in judgment if there are points of law in implementing them. involved that the Court has already been determined in previous cases and so no new judgments to be made. As I have said, I am a new member of the UK delegation to the Council of Europe, having previously It is not all as simple as that, though, because there served on the Organisation for Security and Co-operation are other constitutional issues. Many of the cases in in Europe in the last Parliament. I want to take this Strasbourg get there because, as I understand it, there is opportunity to thank my colleagues on the delegation no supreme court in the Russian Federation to adjudicate and our civil servants, both at Westminster and in on them. They come straight to Strasbourg from the Strasbourg, for the support that I have been given in provincial courts, so we might have to persuade the finding my way around the practices and procedures of Russian Federation to have a look at its court procedures— the Parliamentary Assembly. It is a very different place after it has got through its elections, of course. from this one, and it is taking me some time to adjust. I I welcome the United Kingdom chairmanship. I know hope that I am making some progress in that regard. I from colleagues in the Chamber that we are willing and have already paid tribute to the leader of the UK ready to help the Minister and the Government to take delegation, and I would also like to pay tribute to the forward our agenda, particularly on reform of the leader of the Labour delegation, my noble Friend Lord Court. The Interlaken process set in train some years Prescott, and to the hon. Member for Christchurch ago was followed by a high-level conference under the (Mr Chope), who chairs the Migration Committee, of Turkish presidency in Izmir, in which my right hon. and which I have become a member. He has been very learned Friend the Lord Chancellor participated on helpful, and has encouraged me to take part and to take behalf of this country. I hope that we come up with on some early responsibilities. I welcome the opportunity concrete proposals in our six months to ensure that to do that. reform of the Court is not only an agenda item, but a reality. It is clear to me that the Committee of Ministers provides a necessary mechanism at governmental level I wish my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe to agree and implement policies, although, as other well. I commend him and his deputy in Strasbourg, our hon. Members have said, reform is much needed. I am excellent ambassador, Mrs Eleanor Fuller, who has therefore pleased that that is one of the Government’s done tremendous work. Thorbjørn Jagland, the former priorities. I admit, however, that I initially wondered Norwegian Prime Minister, is an excellent secretary- whether the Parliamentary Assembly was any more general—one of the best the Council of Europe has had than just a talking shop. In these straitened times, is it for a number of years—and is also very much in tune worth using vital resources to fund such bodies? There with the United Kingdom agenda. are some who would question such expenditure, but my experience so far has shown me that they would be 2.42 pm wrong. When I look at the work programme of the Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab): Parliamentary Assembly, I am amazed at the breadth I rise to follow the hon. Member for North Dorset and extent of the vital matters under discussion, and at (Mr Walter) with some trepidation. He has an encyclopaedic the impressive reports that are produced, which I believe knowledge of such matters, whereas I am merely a new are akin to our own Select Committee reports. member of the delegation. However, I will attempt to The capacity exists to make challenging recommendations do my best. I welcome this debate, which is an ideal to the Council of Ministers and to hold the Council of opportunity to reflect on the history and ideals of the Europe to account, which is an achievement, given the 525 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 526 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Sandra Osborne] that issue, as it undermined the purpose of the convention, which is to promote human rights. Whatever people’s number of member states involved. We should therefore views on whether prisoners should have the right to be careful that any savings that can and should be made vote, the debate was characterised by inaccurate, populist do not undermine the whole principle of the Council of and, in some cases, xenophobic nonsense. If there is a Europe or the Parliamentary Assembly, or render them genuine problem—and I think we all agree that there incapable of doing their job. is—with the Court intervening inappropriately in national For those who have the good fortune to live in a affairs, let us deal with it in a measured way that country such as the UK, it can be easy to take for promotes subsidiarity where appropriate, instead of granted the rights that we have. It has become increasingly bursting out in moral panic. obvious to me, through my previous membership of the It is not unknown for the UK to lecture other countries OSCE delegation and now of the Council of Europe, about human rights, and quite rightly so—in fact, I that it is vital, at a profound yet simple level, to keep hope the Government will take the chance to raise talking, even though that can be time consuming, expensive human rights issues with President Santos of Colombia and, in the case of some of the eastern European when he visits the UK later this month—but we should countries, repetitive. practise what we preach if we want to be seen as an example to other countries. I hope we do, and I hope Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I am following my we are. hon. Friend’s speech carefully, and I welcome all the Although the reform of the European Court of Human work that she does in the Council of Europe. Does she Rights is the main priority, I would like to comment not think that there is a case for doing more in this briefly on some of the other priorities that the UK country to publicise its work? We have the chairmanship Government have set for our chairmanship. Combating coming up soon, yet very few members of the public discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation or will know about it. Is there not an obligation to ensure gender identity across Europe is a very welcome objective, that the work is related to the people of this country in and I believe the work we have done in the UK stands some way? us in good stead—particularly the measures in the Equality Act 2010 and the right to civil partnership, Sandra Osborne: I totally agree with my right hon. which were passed in the last Parliament. I am pleased Friend, and I will come on to that subject later in my to say that the Scottish Government—believe me, I do speech. If the truth be told, I confess that I was pretty not often compliment them—are currently consulting ignorant myself before I became a member of the on taking this a step further with the introduction of delegation. That is probably an indictment of me, but gay marriage. I am pleased that we can give a lead to also of the level of discussion that we have on the other member states on this, and I am glad the Government subject in this Parliament. We should take the opportunity have made it a priority—not gay marriage, but tackling to hold more discussions such as the one we are having discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation. today. All the evidence suggests that mankind—I use that Michael Connarty: It has always struck me that in word advisedly—learns very little from experience, and some other countries—this is certainly true where my very slowly, concerning the exercise of power and the son lives—people who are heterosexual can register not protection of the weak, but at least there is hope when a civic partnership but the fact that they are de facto dialogue leads to international treaties. So, if we believe partners. That means that when one dies, the pension that human rights are at the centre of our foreign will transfer automatically to the other member of that policy— sometimes I wonder, although I welcome the de facto partnership. In this country, however, for a Minister’s statement to that effect—we should be prepared heterosexual couple who do not go through a formal to support the European convention on human rights legal marriage, either in a church or elsewhere, the without equivocation. pension dies with the partner. If we are talking about human rights, surely when people put themselves into a The hon. Member for North Dorset referred to the de facto partnership of that kind, they should have all meeting earlier this week between the UK delegation the rights of those who go through a formal marriage. and Mr Thorbjørn Jagland, the secretary-general of the Council of Europe. The secretary-general commented that the UK was well placed to use the chairmanship to Sandra Osborne: I do not disagree with my hon. take forward reform of the European Court of Human Friend, but I would say that heterosexual people have Rights, because we started it and we have the diplomatic the option to marry, which gay people have not had in capacity to gather support. In the six months available, the past. It is right that it should be afforded to them. I hope that that proves to be the case. I am aware that a great deal of groundwork has already taken place— Michael Connarty: What the hell is civic partnership? although, as the Minister has said, securing consensus among 47 states is a tall order. It is right that that Sandra Osborne: There is a civic partnership that was should be the UK’s main priority, however. Everyone not previously available— agrees that reform is needed, not least because of the huge backlog in applications. Michael Connarty: But heterosexuals cannot— As has already been said, there is also a tension in some people’s minds between the judgments of the Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. Court and national sovereignty. That was illustrated in We are not conducting a conversation; this is a debate. the UK with the judgment on prisoner voting rights. I was disappointed by the level of debate in the UK on Sandra Osborne: I apologise— 527 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 528 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) Madam Deputy Speaker: No, it is not the hon. Lady’s All Members who have spoken so far have touched fault. The hon. Gentleman should know better. If he on Britain’s strong historic links with the Council of wants to intervene, he knows how to do so properly. Europe and the drafting of the original European convention on human rights. In view of those historic Sandra Osborne: He is just very enthusiastic, Madam links, I think that Britain must now play a central role in Deputy Speaker. reforming the COE to ensure that the sovereignty of The internet, as we have found, knows no national nation states is respected and the British interest is put barriers, and that has positive and negative consequences. first. I say that partly in the context of this week’s Freedom of expression is vital in the context of human debates on European affairs. On Monday we saw exactly rights, and I am pleased that the UK Government are what happens when power-hungry supranational taking that on board by looking at people’s human rights institutions simply go too far: the public become somewhat in respect of their use of the internet. I hope that any disenfranchised, and the democratic deficit created becomes European internet governance strategy will take into slightly harder to remedy. The public have a view on account the protection of vulnerable people, especially that. I think there is a genuine danger that if action is children. not taken during our chairmanship, the country could On local and regional democracy, I am not particularly find itself sleepwalking down a path towards the stripping familiar with the Council of Europe’s programme, but away of more of our powers and more important as a former local councillor I have strong views about decisions will eventually be taken out of our hands. the role of local government in promoting democracy. I No doubt there is unity throughout the House on the believe that we have many good examples here and a need to safeguard rights to a fair trial, respect for family wealth of experience. However, local government has been life, protection from slavery, freedom of thought and somewhat undermined in recent years—by all parties—and other great values of which this country and British should be held in higher regard in this country. The fact democracy have been staunch defenders over the years. is that, by definition, local government is closest to the However, the European system of human rights that is people—something that is extremely important throughout reinforced by the Council of Europe, the European the length and breadth of Europe. That is relevant to Court of Human Rights and their related institutions what my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester lacks accountability and democratic legitimacy. East (Keith Vaz) said about the importance of publicising I believe that central to that problem is the way in the Council of Europe and its work. Word could be which the European Court of Human Rights operates. spread among communities through local government, Over the years, it has effectively become a final court of explaining what the COE is all about. appeal for those who feel that there are human rights-related As I said earlier, I am a member of the Committee on grounds that their national courts have wrongly dismissed. Migration, Refugees and Population in the Parliamentary I think we all appreciate the importance of that. Recent Assembly. I would have liked to see some migration statistics from the court reveal that in 83% of cases it issues on the list of priorities, especially economic, finds that violation has taken place, contrary to decisions human rights and integration issues. I had understood made nationally. The hon. Member for North Dorset that the protection of minorities was intended to be one mentioned the backlog of cases, and I think there is of the United Kingdom’s priorities. consensus on the fact that the numbers are alarming. I I would be grateful if the Minister responded to those welcome my hon. Friend’s highly practical suggestion two points. Can he also tell me whether he, or any other that people should be brought in to read through the Ministers, will be present at the Parliamentary Assembly paperwork and sort out the situation. While the figures to report to it during the UK chairmanship? I shall be for Britain are better than average, with the Court interested to see how the chairmanship works out, and I finding that a violation has taken place in 61% of cases, wish Government and civil servants the very best in it is astonishing that in so many cases the Court and its their endeavours. judges rule against judgments made by very able, experienced and qualified judges in the British courts. 2.55 pm Moreover, given that section 2 of the Human Rights Act 1998 explicitly binds our courts into the European Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): I am grateful for the human rights system so they already give effect to the opportunity to contribute to the debate, primarily because convention in European case law, it is even more I have been calling for a debate on this subject for a unreasonable for Europe to dismiss so many of the good few weeks. I suspect that the Minister may have decisions made by our courts. become sick of hearing from me. I thank right hon. and hon. Members who supported me last week in my pitch Politicians will always have their differences with the to the Backbench Business Committee. They clearly judiciary and the decisions made by judges, but many of recognised the importance of holding such a topical the decisions made in Strasbourg are fundamentally debate at the time of our chairmanship. I also pay contrary to British values and the British interest. That tribute to the hon. Member for North Dorset (Mr Walter) leads me to question the accountability and legitimacy for his leadership and his insightful comments. As a of the Court. new Member of Parliament, I know that he has a great This situation is made even more challenging to our deal of experience of these matters, and I think that all democracy because no real mechanisms are in place for new Members have a lot to learn from him. Parliament to reverse these European Court judgments. I thank the Minister for his opening remarks, and for Such mechanisms are in place for decisions by domestic the written statement that he published yesterday. There courts, however. Earlier this year when the English is, of course, much to discuss when it comes to our courts highlighted an anomaly in laws relating to police chairmanship and its priorities, and this afternoon is bail arrangements, Parliament was able to initiate and the right time for that discussion. pass emergency legislation: the Police (Detention and 529 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 530 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Priti Patel] In pulling my remarks together, I wish to emphasise to the Minister and the Government that there are Bail) Act 2011. Just as courts act independently to hold issues to be addressed. Britain is signed up to a range of the legislature and the Executive to account, in this case international agreements on human rights-related matters, Parliament and the Government were able to hold the which are all welcome and important. However, decisions judiciary to account. That does not seem to be possible on human rights laws must be brought back home, for decisions made in the European Court, however. As because having British courts interpreting British laws has been mentioned, last February the House passed a is a better and more democratic position than having motion sending a clear message to Europe that it did European judges and their officials ignoring our national not believe it was right of the European Court of interest. It is unhelpful and counter-productive for them Human Rights to demand that we scrap our laws and to be foisting their particular laws on us. give convicted prisoners the right to vote, yet Europe is It is time to draw a line in the sand on many of these still insisting that the judgments of the European Court matters, and to free up our courts, our public bodies takes precedence over the laws passed and motions and, in particular, Parliament from some of the excessive agreed by this Parliament, and is still saying that we intrusion and integration on human rights matters that must grant prisoners the right to vote. we have seen. I hope that, through the chairmanship of the Council of Europe, the Government will take this Michael Connarty: I have been listening to the hon. opportunity to address these matters, in addition to the Lady expand on her point. I think she has got the areas of priority that the Minister outlined. matter wrong. When the European Court of Human Rights makes a judgment, it passes it back to the 3.6 pm country of origin, which must then make proposals to try to fit in with that judgment. I understand that there Sir Alan Meale (Mansfield) (Lab): I said that I was is no intention on the part of the Government—supported not going to be able to speak in the debate, but I by the Opposition, I hope—to give up their right in this managed to get somebody else to chair a meeting in this matter entirely. They are being asked to define in which building in time to come back to the Chamber. circumstances it is appropriate for someone to be not I congratulate the hon. Member for Witham (Priti only incarcerated but deprived of their right to vote. Patel) on her persistence and endeavour in securing this debate, although I suspect our agreement on and Priti Patel: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his remarks. understanding of each other’s politics ceases there. She In February we debated the sovereignty and decision has not grasped at all what the Council of Europe is making of this House in relation to a particular judgment. about, which is human rights, the rule of law and By refusing to accept the sovereignty of our Parliament democracy. They are all intertwined; they are not simple and the democratic decision making of this House, little solutions set aside from each other and never the Europe is demonstrating a lack of legitimacy and twain shall meet. They are interlinked so that we can get democratic accountability, which I find astonishing given policies that cross national boundaries. that the Council of Europe was established precisely to The hon. Lady cites one or two examples that everybody promote democracy. Therefore, in my view, attacking in this Chamber, including the Minister and Labour our Parliament and seeking to undermine our democracy Members, agree on, but they are minor cases where is simply counter-productive. things have to be cleared up. That is all part of the The prisoner votes issue is just one well-known example agenda for change, which the Council of Ministers and of the problem—and it is still ongoing. There are other the Council of Europe are undertaking. Let us deal similar Strasbourg decisions, however, such as in the with the big issues, one of which is capital punishment. Sufi and Elmi case, where Britain was prevented on Countries are not allowed to become members of the human rights grounds from deporting two individuals Council of Europe if they carry out capital punishment. back to Somalia, despite their being responsible for a We must remember that there are 800 million people in very serious spate of crimes, including threats to kill, these 47 countries in greater Europe, and we cannot robbery and dealing in class A drugs. We should bear in singly deal with one or two issues such as the ones she mind that such decisions can end up setting a legal raised. precedent, so they can impact on subsequent deportation cases. In the Sufi and Elmi case, human rights were used Mr Binley: Does the hon. Gentleman not appreciate as an excuse to allow people to remain in Britain. that many of the decisions by the European Court of Human Rights that gain the headlines in our newspapers David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): My hon. actually diminish the role of justice and therefore are Friend is making a number of excellent points. Does she very important? agree that the human rights of violent criminals and terrorists are too often being put ahead of the human Sir Alan Meale: The hon. Gentleman is right. I rights of law-abiding British subjects? She is right to apologise if I have led him up the path of thinking that draw attention to that. these minor matters in relation to the very big issues that the Council of Europe and the European Court of Priti Patel: I thank my hon. Friend for making that Human Rights deal with are in some way not important. point so clearly and succinctly. Our chairmanship of They are all very important, and they are very important the Council of Europe is coming up and this is a big to the people involved. As the Minister rightly pointed opportunity for us to address, if nothing else, the perception out, Members on both sides of the House are seriously issues and the fact that we need to remain vigilant on of a mind for change and reform as far as the Court is these matters to ensure that powers and decision making concerned, because of the huge catalogue of outstanding stay in this country. cases, many of which could and should be dealt with in 531 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 532 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) the courts of the individual countries. We should accept not just loss of property but loss of people? There is responsibility for our failure to act to make the courts also an issue of missing relatives and people who still do deal with them. As the hon. Member for Portsmouth not know where their loved ones have gone since the South (Mr Hancock) said, the problem of the courts conflicts. They have called on Turkey to release basic and the outstanding cases in the European Court is information giving them a right to know where their caused by failures in individual nations and their court relatives are. Does he agree that there has been a breach systems. of those fundamental rights which must be answered I said in an intervention that we have a very democratic and that we could take the opportunity, as chair of the system, which could be reformed in some way, for Council of Europe, to make that case? choosing judges. The three candidates that are submitted by all member countries have to be fully experienced in Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. such matters before their names are even put forward We are not discussing the issue of Turkey per se and I and there has to be a gender balance. Those people am sure that the hon. Gentleman will bring the debate are then examined by a committee in full before back to the question of the chairmanship of the Council recommendations are made to the Assembly, which of Europe and its priorities. then decides. I have been there on a number of occasions over the years, as have other hon. Members who are Sir Alan Meale: Thank you for that guidance, Madam present today, when time and again we have sent back Deputy Speaker. To give a very short reply to the the names of candidates and said, “They are not qualified,” question, let me just point out to the hon. Member for “They do not come up to the standard,” or, in a number Witham (Priti Patel) that there has been involvement in of cases, “No gender choice whatever has been given.” that particular case and many other cases of breaches A few years ago, some countries refused to submit the of human rights by the British Government as a guarantor name of a female candidate. The system is well-tested power. Those issues will be taken up yet again in the and I do not think that talking about “sleepwalking” course of the six-month chairmanship. Indeed, quite away from accountability is the best way forward. recently the European Minister met the Commissioner The Minister gave us the best way forward, which has for Human Rights, who is an employee elected by the been accepted by all parties. We need reform. We have Council of Europe members in its Assembly. As my to wake up the courts and the Governments of member colleague the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate countries and say, “You have to take responsibility for (Mr Burrowes) alluded to, 1,619 Greek Cypriots and and deal with these issues; the European Court is for 684 Turkish Cypriots remain missing from those periods. bigger things.”The example I gave of where such instances I know there will be contact on that subject during our might apply involved a failure by two members of the chairmanship. Council of Europe area and, indeed, Britain—so three The Minister outlined the primary policies that we countries in all—in respect of seized assets in the northern shall take up during our chairmanship. One key area is area of Cyprus. An individual citizen went through all local and regional government. Next week or the week the courses for legal redress in their own country, Cyprus, after, the Minister will be present at talks in Kiev. I hope and then went to the guarantor powers of Greece and he will give a guarantee in his summing-up that he will the United Kingdom, but the case failed and there was fall behind all the magnificent work on local government no other domestic court for that case to go to. Members reform by Kivinemi, the Minister from Finland, which might ask, “What does a person’s ownership of their was picked up and improved upon by Chavez, the home have to do with the European Court of Human Spanish Minister. That is very important. Rights?” Well, it has a lot to do with it if someone’s I congratulate the hon. Member for Witham on her country has been invaded, they have been marshalled persistence in obtaining the debate, but I ask her to out of their home and local area into another country, think about some of the Council of Europe’s other roles and the return of the assets in the house, and the house that will be debated during our chairmanship. We send itself, has been refused. people on peace missions or monitoring missions. Two The Loizidou case went to the Court, which took a or three Members who are currently in the Chamber number of years to deal with it. As my hon. Friend the take part in those missions and put themselves at risk. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael At this minute there are people on monitoring missions Connarty) rightly pointed out, it was then sent back to in some outlying areas of greater Europe, where they Turkey and the regime in the northern area of Cyprus, have to receive military protection in order to fulfil their which were told, “You must deal with this matter. What role. In the forthcoming weeks and months, Members you have done is illegal—you have illegally invaded, you from both sides of the Chamber will be undertaking have illegally occupied and you have illegally kept rightful such missions, and they risk their lives in doing so. In owners away from their homes.” The judgment that the Georgian conflict, the Chechnyan conflict, the Bosnian came down in the end was that reparation to the tune of conflict and the Kosovan-Serbia conflict, Members of nearly £1 million in costs and compensation should be the House, as members of the Council of Europe, went paid to the family not for the home they had lost but for in as peace monitors and election monitors, trying to the loss of use of their home over that 30-odd year achieve a democratic purpose. The Council is not just a period. That case could not have been dealt with in any small organisation in that respect. other court. I shall refer briefly to the work of the eight committees of the Council of Europe. Britain’s membership of the Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): The Assembly, from both sides of this Chamber, is a worthwhile hon. Gentleman makes an important case regarding the and leading part of the work of the Council of Europe. human rights of the people of Cyprus. Is it not the case We have a number of vice-chairmen. We have the chairmen that this issue of human rights goes further and affects of the monitoring committee, the health committee and 533 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 534 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Sir Alan Meale] Malta is holding five UK citizens who have been in prison for more than 10 months without trial, and the environment committee; the list goes on and on. I Malta is a signatory to the convention on human rights. mentioned the committee that examines and gives initial France is holding 12 UK citizens who have been in interviews to those who wish to become judges of prison for more than 10 months without trial, and the European Court of Human Rights. We hold the France is a signatory to the convention on human chairmanship and leading positions on that committee. rights. Indeed, my constituent was held in France for I pay tribute to a previous Conservative Member of this more than two years. Spain is holding 43 UK citizens place: John Greenway was the chair of the Council’s who have been in prison for more than 10 months committee on rules of procedure, and did a magnificent without trial, and Spain is a signatory to the convention job in the years that he held that position. on human rights. Article 5, which sets out the right to I also pay tribute to the British ambassador in Strasbourg. freedom, is being breached by these countries. The FCO I have seen many ambassadors in different countries said that it could not specify the number of UK citizens who treat it as a fine profession and a life indeed, but being held in Greece because that number was so small this woman works night and day. If committees meet that doing so could identify the person concerned. I did early in the morning, she is there; she is there throughout not quite understand that, but the fact of the matter is the day and into the late evenings, attending meetings that Greece is also clearly in breach of article 5. and so on. I pay tribute to her and her staff, as I do to In the case of the constituent who was tried in Lille Secretary-General Jagland. He is comparatively new to last week, I maintain that article 6 has been breached his role, but I am pleased that I and others on both sides because I do not believe that he has had a fair trial. In of this Chamber voted for him, because he has done a fact, I am afraid that his situation was probably worsened magnificent job and brought a stature to the Council of by the intervention of a British Member of Parliament Europe and its work, with his background as Speaker seeking to bring about the trial. The man has been and Prime Minister of his own country’s Government. sentenced to five years in prison, fined ¤10,000 and His sense of purpose in the reform process has been asked to repay something akin to the debt of Greece— very good indeed. ¤5 million. He does not have that because he has lost his Last but not least, I pay tribute to the staff of this home and his family; he has lost the lot. place. We have a small number of staff who run the During the UK’s chairmanship of the Council of Overseas Office. They fix up all the travel arrangements Europe, I want the Government to hold to the fire the and arrange the accommodation, which I acknowledge feet of each and every country that is a member of the is not salubrious—I wish it was—but for which they get Council and is holding UK citizens, or any other citizens the best value they can. They have to make those for that matter, for long periods of time without trial. It arrangements for 30-odd Members of Parliament, including is a clear breach of the convention. Many of those arrangements to enable them to participate in all the countries, France in particular, are preaching to the committees that emanate from the work of the Council United Kingdom and trying to tell us that we must give of Europe. prisoners voting rights. We had that debate in this Chamber and reached a sovereign decision as a sovereign 3.19 pm Parliament. I explained that in person to the Human Rights Commissioner, Thomas Hammarberg, the last Mr Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con): I wish to time we were in Strasbourg. I said, “Tom, you must touch briefly on three issues. The first relates to the understand that this is a sovereign Parliament. This is European convention on human rights, which is the first not a Government decision, but a decision taken in the priority listed on the briefing paper issued by the House of Commons by elected Members. We have Government on the UK’s chairmanship of the Council decided that we do not believe that we have a duty to of Europe. Article 5 of the convention sets out the right give convicted prisoners voting rights.” While that is an to freedom. Article 6 sets out the right to a fair trial. A issue, we are told that other countries can hold citizens constituent of mine has been held in prison in Malta for without trial for very long periods in breach of the more than two years. Another constituent has just faced convention. a highly questionable trial in Lille in France, and he was held for two years before the trial without any right to I would like my right hon. Friend to take to the freedom. Malta and France are both signatories to the chairmanship and to Ministers this clear issue and say convention on human rights. that we will not budge one inch until every country holding any citizen for an indeterminate period without When I started to look into the background on this, I trial has complied properly with the convention. wrote to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to request a breakdown of the number of UK citizens who have been held for more than 10 months without trial in Michael Connarty: I just want to get the hon. Member countries that are signatories to the convention on to clarify and put on the record the fact that all of these human rights and members of the Council of Europe. countries have not only signed, but ratified and implemented Initially, those at the FCO said that they did not have a the convention, because there are many countries who breakdown for all 47 countries and that it would be sign conventions, never ratify them and never, therefore, unreasonable to expect them to do all that work because implement them. it would be very expensive. However, not wishing to be unhelpful, they asked me to name the countries I was Mr Gale: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is interested in. I named four: Greece, Spain, France and absolutely right. The implication is that because we Malta—the latter two for obvious reasons. It was a have signed the convention, we are implementing it. My freedom of information request and they complied understanding is that Malta, Spain and France have with it. implemented it, but I am open to challenge on Greece— 535 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 536 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) I ought to know but do not. France certainly makes a Finally, I shall touch again on the issue that I raised big issue of the situation and is very communautaire, earlier, transfrontier broadcasting, because it is serious. just as long as it wants to be, but on this issue it is in Twenty-five years ago the Council of Europe passed a clear breach and needs to be told that it is. transfrontier broadcasting convention. I know, because I am a re-tread, and 25 years ago—God help me—I was Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): Does my on the Council of Europe and I participated in the hon. Friend regret as I do the fact that, notwithstanding debate at the time. The reason we worked so hard on the the Forfeiture Act 1870, which established the will of issue was that we wanted to make sure that Europe did this House in respect of prisoner votes, and the emphatic not do something very silly by insisting that every vote in February, which made clear to Ministers and to television station throughout Europe had a half-hour the Court itself the settled view of the House, there has quota of clog-dancing in Lederhosen or whatever, but been only a suspension of the Court’s judgment on the instead had something sensible. We knew what we wanted. UK situation with respect to Greens and M.T., as a We wanted reasonable control of matters such as broadcast result of an Italian case, and that the Court has not pornography, taste, decency and so on. We created accepted the will of this House to decide that we are something that was worth while. correct and will not give the franchise to convicted Tim Renton, who was then a Home Office Minister felons? with responsibility for broadcasting—it used to be a Home Office responsibility—turned that convention into the European Union directive, so it was a worthwhile Mr Gale: I have already made my view abundantly exercise. We have now reached the point where the plain: I regret the situation very much indeed. If there is convention is out of date, and because of the advance any case to be made, it can only be this: a person on of technology it needs to be streamlined. The Council remand might be considered to have the right to vote, of Europe is getting to grips with it, and rightly doing because they have not been convicted. I cannot have my what it was trying to do before—to get it right. Suddenly, cake and eat it, because, if I want people to have a fair along comes a European Union commissioner who says trial and to be tried in a timely fashion, I have to that it is a European Union competence and that the concede that if people have not been convicted, they Council may not discuss it. should arguably have the right to vote—but that is all. As things stand, the Council of Europe has stopped Internet governance and freedom of expression on its work on the project. That is outrageous because, as the internet, is one of the Government’s priorities during has been said, the European Union represents only a our chairmanship, but I urge caution upon my right proportion of the countries that are member states of hon. Friend the Minister. The culture committee, on the Council of Europe. I believe that the greater should which I sit as an alternate, and the sub-committee that embrace the lesser, not the other way round, and that has been dealing with the issue, on which I sit as a full the matter is a Council of Europe responsibility. I urge member, have recently been considering a report prepared my right hon. Friend to take that message on board by another delegate to the Council of Europe. Fortunately, very clearly indeed. It is an important issue. members of the United Kingdom delegation stood shoulder to shoulder and had the report withdrawn. 3.31 pm The report has now been rewritten and will be brought back before the committee in Paris on 6 December, Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): when I suspect a reasonable compromise will be reached It is a privilege to follow the hon. Member for North and it will then be debated. When it is debated and Thanet (Mr Gale). Having been in the Council of passed, it will be passed to Ministers for consideration, Europe, and in this House for so long, and having but in that report there is a great deal of motherhood watched his endeavours in the Council of Europe at the and apple pie. The Government’s position paper says moment, it is amazing that he is still enthusiastic about that they stand by the right to freedom of expression on searching out the right wording and practice in the the internet, and that is all nice and fine, but we are things he is involved in. I am sure that he was the same talking about what is known as public control, which 25 years ago. My hon. Friend the Member for Ayr, basically means state control—and means something Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne) referred to me slightly different in French. as enthusiastic, but I have been here for a mere 19 years. I do not want to see state control of the internet, and I hope that when I have been here for as long as the hon. we all know what we mean when we say freedom of Gentleman I am still as enthusiastic for the fight. expression on the internet, but we have to consider the The fight is for the correct implementation of the fact that, although social networking and all those principles behind the Council of Europe. I may not things were held up as the great saviour, the prop that always take the example of the hon. Member for North held up the Arab spring and made things happen, which Thanet on how he approaches things, and hopefully we was wonderful, precisely the same social networking will be at the meeting seeking the compromise that I was used in London in August to orchestrate criminal suggested might be found between him and the author riots. of the original report, which was deeply flawed in the So, just before we go too far down that road, I urge way it was expressed. I hope that we will work together my right hon. Friend to ask his colleagues on the across the party divide on these matters. Committee of Ministers to take a long, hard, proper It is a pity the hon. Member for Witham (Priti Patel) look at the issue, and to ensure that we understand has gone. I am not sure whether she is a member of the exactly what we are saying when we plead freedom of delegation, but certainly some members on the Government expression on the internet. One man’s freedom of expression side do not take up their place, and she might be able to may be the ball and chain around another man’s leg. learn quite a lot by volunteering to take one of the 537 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 538 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Michael Connarty] I held a very excellent debate about human rights and family rights. On family rights, yes, there is no doubt places that are not being actively filled at the moment. I that people are angry because that is used as a plea for am sure she would find it enlightening and educational, someone not to be sent back to some other country. But as we all do. The delegation, although we may come when we come down to the fundamentals and someone from different angles, is genuinely still the bedrock of is asked, “Do you think that family rights are due to all debates in the Council of Europe. Delegates are often of us?”, most people would say yes. We then have to there at the beginning; they are there at the end of the decide why it is not applicable to someone who may day, which might be 8 o’clock at night; and they are come from another country. Sometimes, if we throw out often there on Friday when most people have decided to that basic judgment that family rights are available to go home. We want to take part in debates and make our all of us, and must therefore be available to anyone views known. under our jurisdiction, we destroy something very important in what we have fought for, for political gain and for a Oliver Heald: The hon. Gentleman will recall that he feeling of anger rather than for a judgment of what is and I were both there on the Friday of the last part-session, correct. disagreeing with each other. I thought he would like to know that I am here, and that I do not entirely agree Bob Stewart: I have a question because I am slightly with him today. ignorant on the procedures. If a judgment came back to this House and this House decided that it would not Michael Connarty: We came in together, and hopefully accept it, where do we stand then? they will carry us out together. I recall that we also came to the House in the same year. Michael Connarty: That is a very important question. If the Government should bring back a proposal on, for It is absolutely incredible that a court as important as example, whether prisoners in custody should have voting the Court of Human Rights is clogged up by a type of rights, and we decided that we did not wish to accept it, bureaucracy that could not be imagined in the most we could reject it. They would have to come back again disorganised country in the world. The simplest cases to try to put another proposal, and I presume negotiations that will clearly never be correctly allocated to the would go on between the Committee of Ministers, Court have to be judged by a full bench of judges before particularly with our chairmanship in the next six months, they can say, “No, we can’t deal with this.” There is no to find something that would be suitable, and that sifting process and no filter process. No Committee in would be correct. However, I believe—this is my own this House would run if every Member had to gather judgment—that if we got to the point where we said, every day, look at every paper proposed, and come “No, we refuse to implement this”, then there must be before the Committee to decide whether it could even some question about whether we want to remain in the discuss it. That is what the Court is about at the Council of Europe at all. moment. Anything we can do under our chairmanship to bring in a filtering system whereby one judge or some Mr Binley: The hon. Gentleman is a very dedicated other method is used to say, “This is still correct to stay member of the Parliamentary Assembly, and it is a on the list and others must be sent back to the courts of pleasure to work with him. Does he recognise that at the the national jurisdictions or rejected”, is long overdue. end of the day the judgment goes to the Council of I will talk later about the Human Rights Act 1998 in Ministers, and that equally at the end of the day they the context of individual countries. It is a myth that the have no powers of enforcement? I relate that to the Court can make a country implement its judgment just point made by my hon. Friend the Member for North by lifting the judgment made in the Court and transposing Thanet (Mr Gale): nothing can be done, and therein lies it into the Acts of Parliament of this country. It is not one of the problems. the European Union, after all. I see that the Minister for Europe is here, and he recognises that that can Michael Connarty: I think that is correct in what I happen with European Union regulations and all the have seen of the Council of Europe. It can make judgments, other things that come in, and we have to just get on it can put down statements, people can support those with it because we have signed away some of those statements, and they can be transmitted through the rights—but not at Council of Europe level. It has to Committee of Ministers to the representatives of all the come back and be looked at by this sovereign Parliament, countries who send a representative to that Committee. which then makes a judgment on what amendments to One of the reasons I am quite a strong supporter of the make that would implement it. I hope that we never European Union is that it can bring in directives, and move away from that. has done so, as I shall mention later, in areas which are There is lots of talk saying that our Human Rights close to my heart and to the logic of why I am here as a Act is somehow a transcription of the convention on representative of the people of my constituency. It has human rights and the judgments of the courts. I hope an enforceable power, mainly tied up with the economic that it is, in fact, an attempt by this sovereign Parliament power that lies in the EU rather than just the Court of to implement the human rights that we all hold so dear Justice. But yes, I think that there is a need for a much for our country and for every other country. If it is not more diligent pursuit of the matters raised by the hon. correct and needs to be amended in some way, that is Member for North Thanet. our right as a sovereign Parliament, but we must not get The third part of what I say will be on the way in into the situation where we can overturn the human which the Council of Europe operates. The debate on rights that are available to people in Council of Europe the scope and effect of proposals, papers or conventions countries just because we believe that it will satisfy the has to be had vigorously in the committees. That was feelings of our constituents. done by the hon. Member for North Thanet, and I will 539 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 540 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) give examples of where, even in the year that I have been The other committee that I sit on is the social, health there, I have taken that route and had changes made. and family affairs committee. The discussions of that Hopefully I will bring about other changes, because committee chimed very much with the interests that I that is what we are there to do: we are not there just to have always thought that we are there to pursue, such as go to the plenaries and get our card ticked for being the discussions about human trafficking. Some hon. present; we are, I hope, there to go to the committees, Members may know that I am now vice-chair of the participate in the debates and form and reform the all-party human trafficking group in this House. I have papers, the proposals and the conventions that eventually pressed—even harried—the Government to sign up to come out of the Council of Europe. If we do that, it is the European directives on human trafficking and the our duty to come here and argue for them to be new, extended European directive against the sexual implemented in our country in the fullest way declared exploitation and abuse of children. I found that there in those conventions. If we cannot do that, I question was very much a campaign running on that in the whether we are fully participating in the process. Council of Europe—the “One in Five” campaign. Again, I thank the hon. Member for Mansfield (Sir Alan I am grateful to the leader of the delegation, who Meale), because he organises the Labour side of the nominated me to be the UK representative on that delegation. He was the person who suggested that, organisation. It is in fact a network of contact having been Chair of the European Scrutiny Committee parliamentarians to stop sexual violence against children. and been a member for the past 13 years, I might see When we talk about these things, particularly at a going to the Council of Europe as a natural progression, European level about cross-border action, some people because I could see more of the debates at the fundamental think it is not to do with them, but I have to say that in level, which I did not see in the minutiae of the my own constituency, in the town of Grangemouth, an implementation of European directives. I thank him for industrial town, there have been two unbelievably inviting me to attend. horrendous cases—many cases, but two horrendous It was suggested that I should go into the committee cases of sexual abuse of female children aged 13 and on culture, science and education. I will speak a little 14 months by two different people, put on the internet about the processes that I found there, because it is and spread around the massive paedophile rings throughout important to put on the record, for those who do not the world. It is in every street and every town. In fact the know what this is all about and who read the debates, deputy commissioner for children in England is going what happens there. When I went along, one of the to have a two-year investigation running into sexual large papers that was debated was on “the religious abuse of children. On one day, she took a snapshot dimension of intercultural dialogue.” When I read it, I throughout England of local authorities and care realised, as a humanist, that the Council of Europe’s organisations; in one day, on the same day in England, fundamental principle of the right to belief as well as 1,000 cases of sexual abuse of children were reported in faith, was missing from the paper. When the committee England—in one day at that snapshot. That is how invited people from all the main religions to discuss the frightening this is. paper, it also invited the secretary of the European When we had our first meeting we were addressed by Federation of Humanists to present a paper and to be Mr John Carr, who is from the UK and is the expert heard in Paris. We then tabled amendments, which were adviser to the International Telecommunications Union debated and added to the paper. The paper was eventually on online protection of children. The figures he gave discussed again in the committee, of which the hon. were horrendous: there are 1 million images on paedophile Member for North Thanet is also a member, and went internet sites at any time in the world; there are 15 million to the full plenary, where it was passed by a 95% vote of transactions a year in the country. The one thing that is the Parliamentary Assembly. a problem is that a site can be shut down or blocked in There are some things in that paper that I believe are this country within 24 hours, but there are sites running priorities for our sixth-month presidency and that will in Russia and in the USA that were reported and be very helpful in a world where we know there is still identified over a year ago but are still running, in Russia anti-Semitism, sectarianism and in many countries an because of gangsterism and it is hidden and hard to get anti-Christian movement that threatens people’s rights, at, and in the USA because it is protected by state laws but also persecution and a denial of the rights of people and local laws. The providers of these things can still who are not affiliated to religious organisations. I found keep running a year after they are found to be trading. those issues fundamental to why I am here, what I It is a massive, criminal, monetary-driven enterprise— believe in and what I believe are the rights of the people paedophile activity and the abuse of children. That was whom I represent, and there they were being discussed a salutary lesson for me that there was something going in that committee. Hopefully, my participation in that on there that wanted to join all 47 countries—and wider debate changed the document. than that, but all 47 countries as a start—in a campaign against one of the most heinous crimes and most heinous There was opposition from one or two fundamentalist possible abuses of human rights and the rights of the born again Christians who tried to take all the references child. to humanism out of the paper. I am glad to say that it was defended by people of all faiths in the committee As an adjunct, we debated in the social, health and and in the Assembly, because it is not about being family affairs committee—I was asked to speak, and I against something, but about including people and think the hon. Member for North East Hertfordshire diversity in the real sense, not just in a small way. That (Oliver Heald) spoke in the same debate—the rights of was an important lesson for me that when I was placed undocumented migrant children. I think the most succinct on a committee, if I took it seriously, I could do statement of what the Council of Europe is about is the something; I would not necessarily have carried the day, amendment from that committee that was spoken to by but I could at least express those views. Madam Strik from the Netherlands. It said that a child 541 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 542 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Michael Connarty] of young people fall between the two stools. They are not treated as children and they are not adults. They are is first and always a child, and then after may be a not people who are making the rules; they are the migrant. If that is what the Council of Europe is about, people who are having to suffer the badly made rules. that is so powerful for the people we represent, because Why I want to raise this is that it gives us an example they want that to be a right for everyone in all their of what we can do in the Council of Europe. I was on towns and all their communities, and the Council of that committee and was involved in the draft. I took the Europe allows us to do that. draft away with me and I took it to the West Lothian We have also been addressed by the UN special youth forum, which is a forum set up by the local rapporteur on the sale of children, child prostitution authority. I gave them copies and asked them to go and child pornography, Najat Maalla M’jid, a woman away and use the youth forum to discuss this matter. who does this work throughout the world. It was in fact What did they think of it? What did they think should connecting the Council of Europe countries to what is be done with it? |What ideas were missing from it? The happening in a much wider portfolio. forum came back with three very simple amendments. In this process of holding the presidency or the One was on housing rights and the right to housing. chairmanship of the Council of Ministers, I have an The forum members pointed out that you can get extra priority. It is embarrassing, and it relates to the housing—you can get housing in the worst dumps and question that I asked the hon. Member for North slums of the cities—if you are a young person, because Thanet about having ratified a convention. The United you are basically an insecure tenant and you have Kingdom signed up to the convention on the protection difficulties. They wanted rights to housing that is actually of children against sexual exploitation and sexual abuse, of a standard that is acceptable at a European level. which was laid on 25 October 2007—almost exactly The second one was on employment. They wanted in four years ago—on 5 May 2008. We have yet to ratify it, employment the right to training with in-work accreditation, and if we do not ratify it, it is not brought into force. Let because they knew so many young people who had got us look at the countries that have. Spain, which was jobs and were used, basically. They were told they were referred to earlier, signed it in 2009 and ratified it in getting an apprenticeship, spent two years as a grease December 2010, and has put it into force. It is no use monkey, and then when they asked to go to college to signing something that you do not put into force. I have get certification, they were sacked and some other young been trying to get in to ask the Prime Minister for a person got taken on to go through the same process number of weeks now, but have not been called, when again and again. we are going to ratify it. In our chairmanship six Those are two very important matters. The third one months, that is the time we should do this. We should I think is very important as well, particularly since we ratify that convention. allow the UK Youth Parliament to meet here in this It is amazing how many people have actually been House, in this Chamber. They said they want these involved, and I pay compliment to a lady who I am told matters, if we ever have a convention, to be monitored is called Martine McCutcheon, who starred in “Love by the Youth Parliament or their equivalent in Europe, Actually”—I think she played the Prime Minister’s so that they can have a say on whether the Governments girlfriend, if I recall correctly. She presented, with people who sign up to these things are doing anything about it. from the UK, a petition, gathered with the help of the Body Shop, of 735,889 signatures, exactly at the time it Mr Binley: I am again most grateful to the hon. was presented, calling for the UK to ratify that convention. Gentleman, who is being very generous with his time. That was 12 May 2011. The message does not seem to Does he think there ought to be a balancing factor to have got through to our Prime Minister and Government rights? I am not denying the importance of rights, but I yet, but the people of this country want us to do that. wonder whether we ought to give equal importance to I pay a compliment to them and to the hon. Member, the responsibilities of the individual. Perhaps he has an who is a Member of the Government party, who is the opportunity to make that point and to ask the Minister chair of the UK Parliament’s all-party human trafficking whether he might consider it as well. group, and to Anthony Steen, a former Member of this House who set up an institute, the Human Trafficking Michael Connarty: I think that we have quite a developed Foundation. He is being supported to get campaigning idea among those who take it seriously that with rights organisations in all of the EU countries, but we still come responsibilities. I explain to everyone who comes have a long way to go, and I hope it will be led by our around Parliament that it is a nice building, fine, but chairmanship. buildings are buildings; Parliament is about what goes I have one other small point, but it is an important on in here—the concept of democracy, the demos, the point. The committee on culture, science and education people who had the right in Athens and the responsibility had a proposal before it for a recommendation towards to run the country. They had the power but also the a European framework convention on youth rights. responsibility. That, basically, is how society should be Disappointingly, the response of the permanent member run. We get rights, but we have responsibilities at the representing the UK, who will become the chair of the same time. I think that our Government in the past tried committee of Ministers, was that they did not really to echo that again and again. I think that there are think we needed youth rights. Unfortunately, it is a fact questions about whether people think that they have that now, in most of the countries of Europe, there is a only rights. In Scotland at the moment, everyone thinks long period between the time when you are a child and that everything is free: they do not pay council tax the time you are put out to work. Sometimes people increases, they do not pay for their education, they do study; sometimes they try to make a life for themselves; not pay for their prescriptions—it is all free. I am afraid and sometimes they go into work. In that period, a lot that that is not a world in which people can live for very 543 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 544 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) long, because they soon become bankrupted financially fundamental and the Council of Europe is their guardian. but also bankrupted in terms of principle. I think that I am very pleased to be there, and I am sure that our the hon. Gentleman is right: there needs to be a balance. time as the chair, with the leadership of the Minister Those young people were amazing. They took it and the Labour Benches, will be a good six months. seriously. A Member of Parliament said, “Here is a convention or a document that will affect your lives if it Several hon. Members rose— is ever passed. What do you think?” They went off and treated it seriously. I know that one of the people who Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. helped to draft it, a young David Begg, sits in the Before I call the next speaker, I would like to draw it to Scottish Youth Parliament, and some of them come Members’ attention that this debate is due to finish at down here and participate in the UK Youth Parliament. 6 o’clock. We will need to leave some time at the That is giving them rights and responsibilities in the end—not too much—to hear back from the Minister, right way, and I hope that we will take that seriously who has been given a long list of questions already. and perhaps change our position and encourage the There are 10 more Members wishing to contribute. I development of something that will speak to the youth ask them to keep their eye on the clock when making and that has to contain responsibilities. However, the their contributions. If it looks as if everybody will not debate in the culture, science and education committee get in, I shall consider setting a time limit on speeches to was the opposite: people said, “We don’t want to talk try and help Members. However, I am sure that you will about responsibilities because we want to talk about all want to help each other to make your points in this young people having rights without saying they have to consensual debate. pay for them.” I do not necessarily agree with the balance, but that was how it was drafted. 3.59 pm I will finish with one last reference to a document, Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): This has been Madam Deputy Speaker, because a lot of the debate quite a consensual debate. It has not been as noisy and going on is as though the Council of Europe is out pacey as the debate about Europe that we had on there, the Court of Human Rights is out there, and they Monday, but there has been a great deal of quality and come and fly in and drop things on top of us that we quite a lot of unity, not only on the importance of the have to implement. There is a paper from 6 June Council of Europe, but on the need to reform some of Parliamentary Assembly that I hope that every Member its institutions, such as the European Court. I welcome of the House will read. Perhaps members of the public the Minister’s remarks and those of the Labour would like to read it. It is called “National parliaments: representative, the hon. Member for Wolverhampton guarantors of human rights in Europe”. It states: North East (Emma Reynolds), although I think she “The report examines ways to better exploit parliaments’ potential might have made a slight slip of the tongue when she in this respect and proposes basic principles to be respected by the suggested that the landmass covered by the Council of parliaments of the Council of Europe member states.” Europe stretched from Vladivostok to Reykjavik. The It then lists a lot of very, very sensible suggestions for term “landmass” might come as something of a surprise how Parliaments might do this. I think that is what it is to the Icelanders. about. It is not about saying, “Europe will make the I pay tribute to all the members of the British delegation. decision for you. The Council of Europe will make the I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth decision for you. You just have to implement it.” It is South (Mr Hancock) will be sorry that he is unable to about thinking about how we, as parliamentarians in contribute to today’s debate as he is feeling rather our Parliaments, can take those guarantees correctly. unwell. He is a committed member of the delegation, and I am sure that hon. Members will regret not hearing In my first year as a member of the Parliamentary one of his robust contributions. I also pay tribute to the Assembly of the Council of Europe, I realised that it hon. Member for North Dorset (Mr Walter). He burnished was the one place where I could find the things that his European credentials earlier this week, but he has brought me into Parliament, the things that brought me received so many accolades today as the leader of the into public life as a community activist, from where I British delegation that that fact is worth mentioning went on to be a councillor and to give up so much of my too. life and time to this process of democratic representation. It is about human rights. The Council of Europe sets a It is an enormous honour for Britain to take on the benchmark against which it says to all the countries in chairmanship of the Council of Europe. As the Minister the Council of Europe area, “You will be judged by the highlighted, Britain was involved right at the beginning Council of Europe.” Enforceability is very important, in establishing the institution, which was forged from and I would like to see more of it, but it says, “You will the embers of wartime Europe and has promoted human be judged by it. You will be held up to scrutiny by it. rights, freedom and democracy, the rule of law and The more important thing is that you will have to ask cultural co-operation ever since. It is sad that we are yourselves, in your Parliament, how do you measure up now so complacent that in some circles the phrase to these human rights that should be available to everyone?” “human rights” has become something of a dirty word. When I hear debates in here with people throwing out Indeed, on occasion even the rule of law and the right phrases that clearly say, “I want this human right, but of judges to interpret human rights have been questioned. that person from that country should not have it because The Council of Europe shows that this is an important we do not want them to have it. Send them back to their area that needs to be defended. Obviously the Council country, but they might be tortured. Send them back to of Europe has a much lighter touch than the European their country, but they might face capital punishment,” Union and its institutions, but that gives it a much I am ashamed, because that should not be talked about wider and more comprehensive remit. It has not just in this mother of Parliaments. Human rights are touched on human rights: we also have conventions on 545 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 546 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Martin Horwood] In that respect, the UK chairmanship can build on the excellent work of the Foreign Secretary in his extensive cyber-crime, pharmaceuticals, the prevention of terrorism report on human rights and democracy produced last and the prevention of torture, and—as the hon. Member year. It contains a list of countries causing concern to for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty) the British Government because of their human rights pointed out—on trafficking human beings and on racism record. That list includes several European countries and intolerance, including intolerance based on religious and one member state of the Council of Europe. Outside belief or non-belief. the Council of Europe it highlights Belarus, which is The complacent and sometimes rather lazy criticism currently barred from membership because of its human of human rights and institutions at the European level rights record. The Foreign Secretary’s report describes can easily drift into a reversal of the progress that we “successive waves of repression” in that country. The have seen in all these enormously important areas. The Deputy Prime Minister has referred to it as “Europe’s hon. Member for North Thanet (Mr Gale), who is no shameful secret”. The Liberal Democrats’ own youth longer in his place, pointed out how important it is not organisation has highlighted the struggle of its Belarusian just to accept that the conventions exist and that a piece sister organisation, Civil Forum, stating that its members of paper has been signed, but to ensure that cases are “continue to protest against the regime despite the potential considered in detail and measures are enforced in member violence they often face. Their struggle for human rights and states. However, that does not mean that there is no political freedom is an inspiration to the global Liberal Youth need for reform. The Liberal Democrats welcome the movement.” Government’s initiative to look into reforming Council Sadly, I am sure that similar things could well be of Europe institutions. The European convention on happening in such organisations in other political traditions human rights is something that we should stoutly defend. as well. If the UK chairmanship can advance the cause We were the first state to ratify it, and we should of human rights in Belarus, that would be extremely certainly welcome the European Union’s accession to it welcome. and the application of those disciplines to its institutions. Russia also gets an unfavourable mention in the Foreign Secretary’s list. The report talks about Mr Leigh: During the lifetime of this Government, “restrictions on freedom of assembly, harassment and obstruction will the Liberal part of the coalition veto any attempt to of NGOs and journalists”. repeal the Human Rights Act 1998? It also states: “Human rights defenders in Russia remained at high risk in Martin Horwood: I do not think that there is any 2010.” suggestion that we will repeal the Human Rights Act, It highlights the cases of Oleg Orlov, of the human which actually allows this country to exercise its sovereignty rights organisation Memorial, and of Sapiyat Magomedova, by bringing the European convention on human rights a human rights lawyer. It also mentions the trials of into British law and giving British judges the right to Mikhail Khodorkovsky and Platon Lebedev, and talks enforce it. That is a re-enforcement of British sovereignty, about the circumstances surrounding the murder of so I would be surprised if any such suggestion were Anna Politkovskaya, about which many questions remain made. unanswered. This is all very sad, because Russia has for However, the European Court of Human Rights centuries been a pillar of European culture and civilisation, clearly has a lot of problems. Mention has been made of and it needs to understand that showing respect for the 155,000-case backlog. Obviously it is right that the freedom, democracy and the rule of law is absolutely British chairmanship should work to ensure that the essential if it is to become a full member of the European Court’s judgments are implemented across the rest of family of nations. Europe as well as they are in the UK, that its membership As well as mentioning Belarus and Russia, the report is of sufficiently high quality and, most importantly, also refers to examples even closer to the heart of that it does not act as a substitute for domestic courts. Europe. Hungary’s new constitution gives cause for One good initiative by the coalition has been the concern, and Amnesty International has highlighted establishment of the commission on a Bill of Rights, issues in it relating to the rights of women, as well as to which has already made interim recommendations on “the provision allowing for life imprisonment without the possibility reforming the Court. The commission said in July: of parole…and the exclusion of sexual orientation from the “It is essential for the Court to be able to address cases protected grounds of discrimination”. involving serious questions affecting the interpretation or application Hungary was in many ways at the starting point of of the Convention, and serious issues of general importance, Europe’s democratic revolution in 1989. It is a free where the Court’s intervention is justified. The Court should be a democracy, and a full member of the Council of Europe court of last resort, and not a first port of call for all human and of the European Union, and it would be a great rights issues. It should be adjudicating hundreds of cases a year, not thousands, and certainly not tens of thousands, and ensuring shame if it were to acquire a poor reputation in the area that the principle of subsidiarity is observed by national institutions of human rights. I hope that under the UK chairmanship with the primary responsibility for the protection of human of the Council of Europe we shall see proactive debate rights”. and promotion of human rights, democracy and the The British chairmanship should build on that report, rule of law. and seize the opportunity to take forward reform of the I welcome the Minister’s remarks on the forthcoming Court. I also hope, however, that the UK chairmanship London conference on cyberspace. It is important for it will not be entirely distracted by the mechanics of to tackle the threats from cyber-crime and even co-ordinated human rights, and that it will champion those rights cyber-attack. I also hope, however, that, in line with our where they need to be championed. role in the Council of Europe, it will emphasise the 547 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 548 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) values of freedom on the internet and in cyberspace. including this country, the Government should be looking Throughout the whole episode of the Arab spring so to ensure that there is a commensurate cut in such bodies far, we have seen how important that freedom can be to and in our contribution to them—and that with the championing democracy and human rights. chairmanship, they have the opportunity to drive that On the question of the budget, the Council of Europe through. I look forward to seeing how it will be done. is a relatively small institution in the great continental In announcing their priorities in a written ministerial scheme of things, but it has had a staggeringly large statement yesterday, the Government said that they impact for its size, and I believe that it provides very would good value for money. The United Kingdom should “promote an open internet, not only in terms of access and pursue an active and successful chairmanship of the content but also freedom of expression.” Council, as that would be in our national interest, as The statement continued: well as in the interest of our citizens and citizens across “We will support the adoption of the draft Council of Europe the whole continent of Europe. strategy on internet governance, and the implementation of the principles it has adopted to uphold freedom of expression on the 4.9 pm internet”.—[Official Report, 26 October 2011; Vol. 534, c. 10WS.] I want to put some questions to the Minister and to John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab): Having heard about make some points about that priority. Like every other the worthy deeds of the Council of Europe, I shall start Member, I am aware of the importance of freedom of on the question of value for money. I was struck by that expression on the internet. There are countries both in as I thought about the worthy deeds of the police and Europe and beyond where a lack of freedom of expression the fire service in my area, as both the police station and on the internet is a severe curtailment of the workings the fire station are being closed down. Of course there of democracy or, in some countries, of the real options are arguments about the Government’s economic policy, for democracy. The two go together. It would be worthy but all Members recognise that there has to be a level of and appropriate for the Government to take that work cuts. That means—whoever is in government—that we forward. There is, however, always a counter-side and a have to prioritise what needs to be cut in the light of what balance in these issues. Freedom of expression on the we regard as valuable. There is a consensus on that. internet is not always a good thing. The Americans have It therefore seems strange to me that the Government a clear view on the matter, which their Supreme Court do not appear to be proposing any cuts at all in respect has expressed many times, including recently. For example, of any of the international institutions or our contributions when a church in the United States decided to picket the to them. I personally believe that a 30% cut for the funerals of gay service men who had died on active duty European Union would amount to a pro-European in Afghanistan, the Supreme Court ruled that that case, and that it should be cut to the same degree as our constituted freedom of expression. police service and our fire service are being cut over the There are differing views on how far freedom of next four years—and not just in my area. That would expression should extend, but it is a fact that in this seem to me appropriate. country, under the present Government as under the I am, of course, arguing that cutting the police and last, there have been successful prosecutions of people fire services is the wrong priority, but in developing that who have used the internet for the purpose of hate argument I would not claim that the Government are crimes, and I applaud that. Successive Attorneys-General either intellectually or ideologically anti-police or anti-fire have worked hard to ensure successful prosecutions of service. I think that the cuts are being made in the those who abuse their ability to express themselves wrong place, and I find it odd, in the light of those cuts, freely on the internet and, in so doing, stir up hatred that the Government have not yet specified—they have and restrict the freedom of expression of others, including the ability to do so with their six-month chairmanship the victims whom they target. of the Council of Europe—how appropriate cuts will I chair the all-party group against anti-Semitism. be made to the budget of such organisations. I am not Under the last Government, when my right hon. Friend entering into a dialogue over whether that body should the Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge) was the exist— Minister, and, this year, under the present Government—I cannot remember the constituency of the culture Minister, Oliver Heald: I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister’s mate who is responsible for these has researched the Council of Europe at all, but its matters— budget is being cut in real terms. What is more, it is on a pretty slim budget anyway. It is not like the European Mr Lidington: Wantage. Union—nowhere near. John Mann: Yes, the hon. Member for Wantage John Mann: I thank the hon. Gentleman, but I would (Mr Vaizey). He rightly convened a conference of experts, say, “Count the pennies and we’ll have the pounds.” I and I note that the Government are convening another would like the Government to explore the notion of on 1 November. Have any of those involved in the whether there needs to be any base in Strasbourg at all, conference that the hon. Gentleman rightly convened, or at least whether some functions could be combined. on a cross-departmental basis, been invited to the [Interruption.] There is certainly an overlap of functions forthcoming conference? Will the same level of expertise between the European Union, the Council of Europe, be involved in the examination of hate crime on the the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe internet, or are the Government adopting an unbalanced and the NATO Parliamentary Assembly. [Interruption.] approach while chairing the Council of Europe, and I hear from sedentary comments that some Members considering only one concept rather than both? That do not agree; they are entitled not to agree. My point is would not be in the traditions of the parties that make that at a time of major cuts in many nation states, up the ruling Government in this country. 549 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 550 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [John Mann] Oliver Heald: The point being made was how on earth can the hon. Gentleman criticise the Council of The all-party group has received widespread support Europe about this issue, when the Council of Europe, from Members on both sides of the House for many and especially the Parliamentary Assembly, is trying to years. Members, including some who are in the Chamber address these issues right across Europe? I serve on the today, have participated actively. Members of the committee on culture, science and education at the Conservative party have participated above and beyond COE, and we are currently working on a report on this the normal call of duty, as indeed have members of very topic. other parties, including Liberal Democrats and, of course, Labour Members. It would be rather contradictory if John Mann: The hon. Gentleman is a very good the Government managed to slip into a conference on parliamentarian and he used to be my MP, but he the internet on 1 November, in the context of their sometimes gets over-excited. I am not criticising the chairmanship of the Council of Europe, without ensuring COE. I am proposing a cut in its budget, and in the that that conference also examines, on an expert level, budgets of other international institutions. That is not a including by politicians, problems relating to the use of criticism of the COE; rather, it is to do with the economic the internet for hate crimes. realities. If the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues wish The internet is now the place where anti-Semitic filth to prioritise certain areas of expenditure, such as by is spread, be it the old hatreds, the blood libels, the red-circling overseas aid, they are perfectly entitled to resurrecting of the protocols of the Elders of Zion, or do so. What I am saying is that the Government should the new hatreds caused by a failure to differentiate use their chairmanship of the COE to implement a between legitimate criticism of the state of Israel and small cut in its budget—and that the budgets of other attacks on Jewish people. A wide array of offences are EU and international bodies should also be cut. being committed on the internet, across Europe and across this country today, and there have been new Mr Walter: I want to give the hon. Gentleman some developments in recent times. Social media sites such as reassurance. The delegation from this place to the COE YouTube carry videos, and social networking sites such has had its budget cut, as have the delegations to other as Facebook publish messages promoting anti-Semitic international bodies. It was cut by 10% this year, and it themes. In blogs, not least those in online newspapers, a will be affected by the overall House of Commons particular theme will give rise to a string of anti-Semitic budget cut of 17% in this Parliament. or other offensive hate messages aimed at a specific group. That is one of the problems and dilemmas John Mann: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that surrounding the internet. information, and let me stress that I do not celebrate In case any Member is not aware of the sort of stuff such cuts, but they are, perhaps, inevitable. I have only that is published, let me give some recent examples. been to Strasbourg once—it was many years ago and it Here is a nice little one which comes from somewhere was not a trip to the Council of Europe—but it is quite close to my constituency. Someone has just posted certainly an opulent place. The following question should this: certainly be asked: do we need European parliamentary institutions in Strasbourg as well as Brussels? “Throw the jew down the well So my country can be free Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): I want to correct a You must grab him by his horns possible misapprehension. As well as the 10% and 17% overall cuts already mentioned, for the last eight years Then we have a big party”. the COE has had a nil increase in its budget, which is, in What a charming post! The following example is from a effect, a cut. The effects of these cuts are ongoing, and press statement: the COE is trying to work within the financial restrictions. “The Muslims joining the demonstration called upon the In fact, one of the new secretary-general’s priorities is Muslim armies to march forth to fight the Jews, eradicate Israel to deliver these cuts, and he has the support of all and purify the earth of Jewish filth”. political parties in Strasbourg. These examples come from this country, and there are vast amounts of this material. John Mann: Turning for a moment to what is happening in my constituency and that of my hon. Friend, I could The abuse is not only anti-Semitic; other hatreds are mention the closure of fire stations. I hope the Government expressed as well. Various groups of people are targeted. take a lead on seeing what more can be done, and I am Gay rights groups have identified this as a problem, for certain the Minister is listening to this point. example. Other issues can be involved. Sometimes people On the Government’s priority to deal with the internet, who are isolated in some way can be targeted, such as the research from Norway, following the horrific murders through cyber-bullying, which is a huge new problem. there, on the propensity to violence of those surfing I therefore urge the Government to focus on these extremist websites needs further exploration. We need internet issues in their chairmanship, starting with the to analyse how the internet can have an impact on conference of 1 November. These problems must not be violence, including terrorist violence. This is a key area brushed under the carpet. forustodomoreworkon. Research has been done in Norway—[Interruption.] We also need to address the question of corporate The hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) says responsibility, not least with the internet providers. This that this is not relevant; it is absolutely relevant. Yesterday, chairmanship provides us with a great opportunity—with the Government said this issue would be a top priority the internet as a priority—for the Government to get for the Council of Europe during their chairmanship. into that dialogue with the internet providers about 551 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 552 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) precisely what their role is, how that can be improved rights in eastern Europe, where there have been the and how best practice can be spread among them. I most appalling and profound abuses, as there were in mentioned the overlap in the work of bodies such as the western Europe before 1945. To me, that is what the EU and the OSCE, and work on the internet causes a Council of Europe, the European convention on human huge overlap. How are the Government going to use rights and the Human Rights Act 1998 are all about; it this opportunity to ensure that this work permeates is about the fundamental freedoms that, from Magna those bodies and does not stand alone, because that Carta onwards, we have built up in this country. We would not be as effective as something that crosses over have become a beacon of those freedoms. We all know and permeates work ongoing in those two bodies? what they are: freedom of expression and of religion, How do the Government see the issue of education the right to privacy and a family life—wonderful, basic and the internet, including how young people are educated freedoms. That is what I believe Winston Churchill was in schools on how they use and access the internet? We talking about, but what we have now seen is judicial need to address the whole issue of grooming, child creep way beyond anything ever envisaged when the pornography and so on; important issues are involved. convention was agreed. How are the Government going to use this opportunity There is a misunderstanding about this issue. Nobody to look at how best practice from other countries can be on the Government Benches is suggesting that we should shared, how intelligence can be shared between law- leave the convention. I am proud of the convention that enforcement agencies and what the law-enforcement we signed in 1949. All we are attacking is the incorporation regime should be, because it differs greatly between of the convention into our law under the Human Rights different member states of the Council of Europe? Act 1998, which was passed by the Labour Government. All this provides a huge opportunity, albeit with a That is our gripe. Nobody is denying that we should be reduced budget, for the Government to make a mark, a member of the Council of Europe or that we want to using their chairmanship of the Council of Europe and reform it, but this has become a very serious issue. If using the fact that they have prioritised the internet, one looks on the front pages of the newspapers today starting in a few days’ time with the Foreign Secretary one will see, just to take one issue, that the population hosting this conference. I urge the Government to make of this country is due to rise within 20 years to 70 million sure that the balance is struck between freedom of people—a figure that the Labour Government said was speech, which is vital for democracies, and tackling the quite unacceptable and would never be reached. Two hate crimes that permeate the internet. If that balance is thirds of that increase comes from immigration—that in their chairmanship, the Government will doubtless will put a severe strain not only on services but on good do a good job. relations and human rights. This issue of immigration is therefore important. 4.27 pm If the Minister for Immigration were here and were Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): The hon. allowed to speak openly about what is happening in his Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) is my next-door Department, I am sure that he would have to admit that neighbour across the Trent, so I hope that there will be a he is severely constrained in what he can do to deal with sort of symmetry to our speeches; I will balance his this problem of immigration in order to foster good speech for the purposes of the Gainsborough Standard. race relations because of the incorporation of the He is, of course, an ornament of Parliament, not least convention into our law. Although he cannot tell us, because he succeeds in irritating his own side as much as because he is a Minister, what is going on inside his us, which is very good. Department, we have, as I mentioned earlier in a couple of interventions, now heard from a former Minister for You,too, are an ornament of Parliament, Mr Deputy Immigration. His diary really is worth revealing because Speaker. You are also a former member of the Council it tells us in great detail what is going on. This is not of Europe. We all recall you often flying the flag for some right-winger speaking: it is a former Labour Britain on a Friday when everybody else had gone Minister—a person who voted for the 1998 Act, was home. We are very grateful for all the work you did in then put in a position of responsibility and was, frankly, the delegation. I am not sure that anyone has yet driven mad by it. thanked you, so I wanted to put that on the record. In the Council of Europe we are restricted to three-minute contributions. I cannot promise that I will take as little Martin Horwood: I am tempted to discuss the issue of as that, but I shall try to be as quick as possible because immigration and suggest that it is more to do with I know that others want to speak. providing the skills in the right jobs, as that is what is drawing in immigration—that is something that the I am very proud to be a member of the Council of coalition is tackling. Europe. When we go there we see some marvellous history laid out in the foyer, with pictures of Winston The hon. Gentleman talks about getting rid of the Churchill speaking to one of the first sessions, if not the Human Rights Act, which effectively means taking the first. There is something very noble about this concept ability to interpret the convention out of the hands of which, as we know, arose out of the second world war. British judges and giving it back to European judges. The Council of Europe was a tremendously powerful Does he not trust British judges or does he think that by mechanism in saying that we were never again going to doing that we will somehow not be implementing it as have the horrors of Nazism and fascism. We should fully as we would be if it were in British law? also be very proud of what the immediate past generation of members of the Council of Europe achieved in the Mr Leigh: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman whole transition to democracy in eastern Europe, of because this addresses precisely the point I want to what the Council of Europe has achieved in eastern make. I believe that the convention as we understood Europe and of how we are really defending human and implemented it from the late 1940s to the late 1990s 553 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 554 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Mr Leigh] That is what we have come to, and it is now affecting national policy in a very profound way. The House may was about the protection of fundamental rights. It was not agree with me about immigration, but I think it is a understood to be a matter of last resort. If somebody very serious issue for our country. We have to grapple was really dissatisfied with the way that their human with it if we are going to ensure good race relations in rights had been treated in British courts, for example in the future. I believe that a population of 70 million is the immigration process, they could, if they wanted— unsustainable. You may not agree with that, Mr Deputy frankly, after they had been removed—take a case to Speaker, but surely you agree that this House, and Strasbourg. What has happened since then—since we Ministers responsible to us, should have the right and have incorporated it—is that we have had a tidal wave the power to deal with it; you do not believe that at all of cases coming to our own judges, and they have times their hands should be shackled behind their back interpreted the convention in such a way that makes it because of a European convention that has been interpreted very difficult for Ministers to do their job. Members of in such a way that it goes way beyond what anyone Parliament might not worry about whether it is bad to envisaged when it was set up. make it difficult for Ministers to do their job, but Ministers are responsible to this Parliament. This is the Bob Stewart: The Human Rights Act also has a direct democratic forum of the British people. This Parliament impact on operations for our armed forces, and often should be supreme—not the courts. constrains the way in which our commanders can operate. If hon. Members do not believe me, they should They spend a heck of a lot of their time working out listen to what Mr Woolas said. I have already mentioned how not to offend the Human Rights Act rather than the case. For years we had been working on both sides working out how they can carry out their operations. It of the House against forced marriages and we had been is a very big difficulty, which we must also overcome. trying to raise the age of women coming here. I mentioned in my intervention on the hon. Member for Wolverhampton Mr Leigh: I am grateful for that; my hon. Friend North East (Emma Reynolds) how that had been speaks with personal knowledge. overturned by judges. I ask hon. Members to listen to I shall end in a minute. I think I have made my point this quote from Phil Woolas, the former Labour Minister and I hope I have made it in a way that the House for Immigration, which directly mentions the European understands. Yes, I do believe that the Council of Europe Court. He said: needs some reform; the Court certainly needs some “We have four people wanted for genocide in Rwanda (there reform. There are obvious things that we could do to are 100 but the four are the test case)”— fillet the number of cases. A backlog of 160,000 is so we have here four people who are wanted for quite ridiculous and unsustainable. The Court should deal serious crimes, so not very nice people. The quote with fundamental abuses of human rights, which are continues: still going on in some countries; let us be fair about that. “The magistrates had agreed to extradite them but the High We have had recent debates in the Council of Europe Court had disagreed on the grounds that they would not get a fair about massacres and persecution of Christians in the trial in Rwanda. middle east. Those are things of the sort that I think the I am advised” founding fathers were thinking of—the horrible events, by my civil servants the disgusting and vile abuses of human rights that have “that I should grant six months leave to remain in the UK ‘in the been taking place in Libya within the past year, or in hope that the legal system in Rwanda improves’. Syria in the past few weeks, or in Iraq over the past I had asked why we couldn’t try them in The Hague and was 10 years, and if those countries were part of the convention told as they were not British, I couldn’t send them there! in the Council, that may be a good thing. That is what So a person accused of committing genocide in an ‘unsafe we should be focusing on, not these absurd, trivial country’ (which country that has genocide is safe!) simply has to cases—tens of thousands of them. get into an ECHR country and they will get away with it. The I cannot believe that a filleting process cannot be ECHR is providing cover for people who commit genocide. developed. I cannot believe that we cannot have a Madness.” process similar to that which our own ombudsman uses. That is not me speaking—it is a Labour Minister. We are constantly being approached with requests to go I will refer to another case and then I will stop. There to the Parliamentary Ombudsman, and there is a very were many others, and I recommend that hon. Members quick process which fillets out immediately all cases read what is going on inside the Department, because it that are obviously not applicable to the Parliamentary is our only insight into what is actually happening Ombudsman. Then the Court really could be something across Ministers’ desks. powerful, noble and great, which would be a beacon to “The French Navy detained some drug smugglers in the middle the world. It really would defend human rights, because of the Atlantic. It took 14 days to get back to France because the it would focus its attention on those very real abuses, ship was on patrol. But the…gangster took the French government which, I am afraid, are still taking place in the rest of to court for unlawful detention under the ECHR, saying he the world and even, I suspect, in some parts of Europe should have been dealt with sooner!...The smugglers have been in limited circumstances. released…I have now asked why we can’t change the law to stop this abuse but the MoD don’t want me to as they are using the Having done that, I believe that we should repeal the same defence to protect six British soldiers, now back in the UK, 1998 Act and replace it with our own Bill of Rights. who are being sued from Iraq after being accused of unlawfully That Bill of Rights should be based on a fundamentally detaining suspect insurgents in Basra…So, we cannot detain British understanding of how our common law has suspected gangsters at sea and the Human Rights Act applies in developed since the Magna Carta. It should protect Basra. Unbelievable.” people’s individual freedoms, but not take the whole That is not me speaking; it is a Labour Minister. process to a ridiculous conclusion, the sort that states 555 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 556 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) that I cannot say what I believe or speak my truth if it institutions acting together, because he will find that might somehow insult the sensibilities of, for example, they are doing a very useful job. The Council of Europe an hon. Friend. For instance, there was an absurd case is not an expensive institution in the way the European concerning an argument about Islam that took place Union is—I agree with his criticism of the lavish expenditure over the breakfast table in a bed and breakfast. The on the EU and the need to cut it considerably. owner made a disparaging comment about Islam, suggesting The issues that the Council of Europe as a whole that it was a violent religion—not a comment I would addresses, such as migration, are the great issues of the have made—but it was said in the course of a normal day. My hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough conversation. He was promptly taken to court for somehow (Mr Leigh) has just expressed his concerns about migration. infringing the human rights of the person with whom My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope), he was arguing. We all know that this is profoundly who is chair of the Council’s committee on migration, un-British and that it is not working. It is preventing refugees and population, recently produced a major British Ministers carrying out what a British Parliament report on migration and how we should tackle it right wants. I believe that we should replace the 1998 Act across the Council of Europe area. It is easy to think with a British Bill of Rights. that that is the same area as the EU, but it absolutely is not: the Council includes Russia and Turkey and so 4.41 pm covers a vast area. As a result, it is able, if its reports are Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): May implemented, to have a serious effect on the problem of I start by congratulating you, Mr Deputy Speaker, on migration. It is an institution that can cope with that being made an honorary member of the Parliamentary sort of big issue. Equally, the culture, science and education Assembly of the Council of Europe, which is well committee is looking into the very issue that the hon. deserved? Of course, many of us are very sad that you Member for Bassetlaw is concerned about: the internet. are not so frequently there, partly because we now have If all 47 countries sign up, it is possible to effect to speak on Fridays, and you were always extremely change. The hon. Gentleman should not think of the good at that. Council of Europe as an institution like the EU; it is I agree with much of what my hon. Friend the not. The Council covers a wider area, it is multi-layered Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) said. The European and, as the hon. Member for Mansfield (Sir Alan Court of Human Rights has a very important function. Meale) said, its Parliamentary Assembly also has peace The European convention on human rights was designed missions. If we think back to the Russia-Georgia conflict by English lawyers and expresses what were seen to be a couple of years ago, we find that it was the Council of the fundamental rights of English common law—the Europe that sent in a team to try to broker peace in that right to a fair trial and so on. It is therefore ironic that very dangerous situation. The Council also monitors the introduction of the Human Rights Act, which elections. My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch incorporated the convention into English law, has somehow was in Tunisia last week doing valuable work. The been seen as a new departure and used to extend the Council is spreading democracy and tackling some of law, which I think is the mistake. It is the way in which it the big issues as only it can, and the hon. Gentleman has been incorporated that is the problem. ought to take a more serious view of it. He spends a lot of time planning mountaineering expeditions—indeed, I am chairman of the executive of the Society of I once met him at the top of Scafell Pike—and he ought Conservative Lawyers, which for some years has produced to do that sort of preparation on this subject. publications and pamphlets arguing for a British Bill of Rights. The secret of why that approach is the right one is that it would be possible to have some kind of route John Mann: The hon. Gentleman has spent too much map explaining how the rights should be interpreted in time on top of mountains, I think; he needs to listen a English law, which is what is needed. I welcome the fact little more carefully. Election monitoring is also done that the Government have established a commission to by the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in consider that. At the Conservative party conference the Europe and by the European Union, so there is some Home Secretary talked about the immigration rules and overlap. It is not a criticism of the work of the Council how they comply with the convention. She made the of Europe to suggest that it can take a bigger haircut point that it is not the rights themselves that are the along with everyone else; indeed, it is the pro case, just problem, but the way they are put into English law in as it is the pro-European case to suggest a big haircut the immigration rules. She is now going to change those for the European Union. A credible organisation like rules to ensure a more sensible approach that explains that can get away with a haircut—because it is credible. the interaction between the right to a family life and the national interest, which I think is the right way forward. Oliver Heald: The hon. Gentleman made his speech, The hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) should and I have disagreed with several points that he made, spend a little more time researching what the Council of so we will probably have to leave it at that. Europe does, because although it is an unusual creation, The Government are right to make Court reform a it is an important one. It is multi-layered: it has the priority, however. With a backlog of 162,000 cases, Parliamentary Assembly, which does one sort of work, there is a need for a filter to provide some way of getting and the organisations allied to it, such as the group of through them, and we are right to try to introduce more states against corruption; it also has a congress of local subsidiarity. I agree with our delegation leader, my hon. and regional authorities, which involves local government Friend the Member for North Dorset (Mr Walter), that across the 47 countries; then there is the Court, which we should have a system in which one needs leave to deals with matters that have been presented by individuals take a case to the European Court of Human Rights, complaining about how countries are implementing the although personally I think that one would need also convention. He should look at the effect of all those the right, if leave were refused, to apply directly to the 557 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 558 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Oliver Heald] agreement. We should also have better arrangements for patrolling the Mediterranean, and I know that the Court. That would not open a great floodgate of cases; Government are supporting moves in that direction. I it would just mean that, if a particular case were decided support the idea that our Government could send officials for political reasons, which is what can happen in some to help to deal with immigration cases in Greece and countries, there would be a further way through. Italy, rather than going for the shared responsibility, On the Human Rights Act, I have mentioned my wave them through approach. I hope that the Government support for a British Bill of Rights, but the other issue is will continue to offer that support to our southern the quality of the judges. I have been a member of the neighbours in the hope that there will be no weakening Council’s Parliamentary Assembly for only two-and-a-half of the Dublin agreement. years, or perhaps three now, but that problem has been On extraordinary rendition, Dick Marty, the Swiss raised in the Assembly throughout that period. Some parliamentarian, recently produced “Abuse of State judges just do not know the Court’s law base, and there Secrecy and National Security: Obstacles to Parliamentary is a concern that some countries’ candidates are just not and Judicial Scrutiny of Human Rights Violations”. It adequate. We should find ways to improve the quality. is his last report, because he is standing down from the Council of Europe. I pay tribute to his long-standing Sir Alan Meale: Will the hon. Gentleman confirm, so commitment to human rights, and his campaign against that the House is not left with the wrong impression, extraordinary rendition. In his latest report, he pays that we refuse candidates at every session? If they do tribute to the all-party group in the House that deals not meet the language, experience and gender balance with the issue, and describes its efforts as untiring. It is criteria, we do not appoint them. We send them back, right to pay tribute also to the all-party group. time and time again to some countries. The key point about Mr Marty’s report is that it builds on what we have been doing in this country. He Oliver Heald: Yes, and of course the answer is not to says that legislation should not be a cloak for wrongdoing find a way of letting unsatisfactory candidates through; and highlights the importance of parliamentary scrutiny it is to secure an improvement in the quality of candidates. of the work of secret services, as we do here—although, Knowledge of the Court’s key languages is vital; otherwise obviously, there may room for improvement in that. He it is not possible for the judges to interact with it. points to the need for courts to develop procedures My impression of the European Court of Human where secret information can be used without damaging Rights is that it takes a slightly diplomatic approach to state security. He also addresses the settling of the cases its cases and almost sprays round the judgments a bit. that arose out of Guantanamo and the report that is There is a need to act entirely on the basis of serious being produced by the special inquiry led by Sir Peter human rights abuses and not to feel that every country Gibson. In doing so, he acknowledges that this Government of the 47 must have a judgment against it. More focus are taking the issue seriously and approaching it in a on serious abuses of human rights would meet the point way that could be a model for other parts of Europe. made by my hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti The committee on culture, science and education is in Patel) and other hon. Friends. the process of producing a report on internet governance. I support Secretary-General Jagland’s programme of There has been and continues to be a good deal of reform, which will save money—the hon. Member for argument about exactly what the report should contain. Bassetlaw will be pleased about that—and streamline I am glad that the Government are making the issue one the organisation, reducing the number of committees. It of their priorities. I hope that when the report comes is worth giving credit to Monsieur Mignon, who is out, assuming my hon. Friend the Member for North rapporteur of the committee on rules of procedure, Thanet (Mr Gale) gets his way on exactly what is in it, immunities and institutional affairs, and involved with the Government will take it seriously and use it as part the Assembly’s bureau. He has played a major part, and of their approach. his report on changing the rules is a major piece of Finally, I welcome the Government’s concentration work. My hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset on tackling discrimination on the grounds of sexual played a big part in that. Those changes will improve orientation and gender identity. What we do in this how the Assembly works. country is very seen much as the model for the rest of The rule of law is an important priority for the Europe. Some other countries are way behind—examples Government, and I want to mention two issues. The have been given with which I agree. It is good that our first is migration. If we are to tackle migration, it is Government are going to build on the work that has important to follow the approach that the committee on been done in this country and try to spread it across the migration, refugees and population set out in its recent 47 countries of the Council of Europe. report, when my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch In conclusion, it is very wise of the Government to (Mr Chope) was the rapporteur. That involves sticking have reached agreement with Ukraine and Albania—the by the Dublin agreement. Asylum seekers must apply countries whose periods of chairmanship are on either for asylum in the first country they arrive in; otherwise side of ours—because that means that, over an extended they may be sent back to that country. There is talk in period of 18 months, the chairmanship can concentrate the Council of Europe about flexibility and shared on some issues and get a result. I wish the Government responsibility, which suggests that some people who well and hope that the Interlaken process is the success apply for asylum could be waved through to other that it should be. The fact that 47 countries are involved, countries for their case to be dealt with, but that would the largeness of the geographical area covered, and the drive a coach and horses through the regulation of way in which the organisation is led mean that if something migration in Europe. Many people already cross external is done right in one country, best practice can be spread borders illegally. It is important to stick by the Dublin right across Europe. 559 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 560 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) 4.57 pm Court of Human Rights the message that it must get its act together, because it is undermining the confidence Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con): I thank of the people of this country—and, no doubt, that of the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann), who is the people in other countries—which is so necessary for leaving his place, for reminding me that I need a haircut it in doing its work. this weekend. I was going to talk about prisoner voting, but we had I am a member of the Council of Europe—and a a big debate on that recently. Suffice it to say that I proud member, actually. I am rather surprised by how believe that prisoners are in prison by choice. They are much I am enjoying it, but you will understand the not forced to break the law; they choose to break the reasons, Mr Deputy Speaker. law. Therefore, there is no problem with the removal of I welcome many of the Minister’s remarks. I was that human right. They choose to deny themselves that especially pleased to hear his comments about a Bill of human right. We ought to do some plain talking when Rights and about subsidiarity. The Government seem this matter comes before the Committee of Ministers. to have a real programme to implement over the six I also question the judges’ appreciation of our values months of our chairmanship, and most of us in this and legal procedures. This nation is lucky to have a House would welcome that. However, we shall be common law based on almost 1,000 years of life scrutinising his work and keeping an eye on him. That is experience—a common law that has served this nation the job of this place, and I know that he will welcome it. well. To my mind, it covered all the necessary protections of the people of this country. Indeed, they seem to Mr Leigh: No, he won’t. think that it covered the necessary protections themselves. The fact that there are so many different codes of law in Mr Binley: I am sure he will. a 47 nation-strong Europe underlines the need for greater The European Court of Human Rights has a proud knowledge of the various codes of law in those countries. history of defending the rights of individuals, but there If necessary, that might require a division of the judges’ is no doubt that there have been several questionable bench. We certainly need them to understand our code judgments that raise issues about its competence across of law if they are making judgments about our citizens. the piece. I refer to the membership of the judges’ bench. It has already been said that a number of judges Martin Horwood: In arguing for an awareness of our have little judicial experience, and indeed that some of code of law, cultural traditions and values, is the hon. them were political appointees. That does no good for Gentleman therefore arguing in support of British judges the whole concept of jurisprudence. We ought to be having the right to interpret the Human Rights Act 1998, making an effort to ensure that a court of this importance and therefore the European convention on human rights, is matched by the quality of the judges who sit on its in British courts? benches, and the sooner we get down to that, the better it will be. One judge was reported not to understand the Mr Binley: I am delighted to say that most senior concept of legal precedents. When one gets that sort of judges believe in the primacy of Parliament, and I have ignorance in a court of this kind, one begins to wonder no concerns about that. A few judges have tried to what sort of justice it imparts. Indeed, many people in argue differently. Only recently, I noticed the remarks of this country have begun to believe that some of its a senior judge in the Court of Appeal that underlined judgments are, to say the least, beyond the pale. Those the importance of the primacy of this place. people are responsible for overturning the decisions of this House and our courts, so we have a right to expect a Martin Horwood: Will the hon. Gentleman give way greater degree of competence and better qualifications. again? I know that the Minister will take those thoughts on board. Mr Binley: I want other people to be able to speak, My next point is about languages—a subject touched and many Members have spoken for a long time, so I on by my hon. Friend the Member for North East will reject the hon. Gentleman’s request on this occasion. Hertfordshire (Oliver Heald). The 2005 Woolf report I wish to touch briefly on the 162,000-case backlog in made 26 recommendations on the working methods of the European Court of Human Rights. We all know the European Court of Human Rights. One was the that it is farcical, and that something must be done provision of language training, and yet that has not about it. I am glad that the Minister has decided to do been implemented. We all know that interpreters can something. However, I must ask him something. I was change the nuance of language dramatically when they once told by a fortune teller that I would live to beyond interpret one language into another. Because the nuance 80, which would be another 11 years. Will the measures changes, the meaning can be totally different. That is that he puts in place during our chairmanship be completed, simply unfair to the people who put their trust and faith and will the list be eradicated, in that time? It worries in the European Court of Human Rights. I urge the me, and I want to go to meet my maker with a clear and Minister to put language training for judges on his little untroubled mind. list as an absolute priority. Finally, I wish to say that I know the Minister cares The 2010 Interlaken conference and declaration stressed about these matters and is well placed to represent us in the need to preserve the high quality of the European respect of them. I look forward—for the first time in Court of Human Rights. I have already referred to the many years—to action on the European Court of Human lack of quality. This matter is consistently asked about, Rights that will give the British people confidence. If and it is consistently recorded that we need to do things. the Minister comes away after the six months of the No wonder the people of this country get a little impatient British chairmanship having achieved that objective, we when nothing happens. I want to send the European will all be prepared to say, “Very well done, Minister!” 561 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 562 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) 5.5 pm much to the UK’s chairmanship of that organisation, and to seeing some of the reforms that have been David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): May I, too, mentioned today. begin by congratulating the Europe Minister on a speech that I think united not just all on the Government Benches but many members of all parties? It is obvious 5.9 pm that he intends the chairmanship of the Council of Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): It is a Europe to be used in a positive way and to reform the pleasure to be called, and a privilege to have the chance European Court of Human Rights, which I fully support. to play a small part in this debate. The UK chairmanship That institution was set up in 1949, as we have heard, of the Council of Europe comes round not very often, when we had just come out of a war against dictators so we can truly say that we will not see the like of this and other dictators were still ruling parts of Europe—as parliamentary occasion for decades to come. they did until well into my lifetime, in the 1970s. It was right that a country with 1,000 years of democracy and I concur with many colleagues who have spoken, a history of supporting human rights should be part of particularly on the urgent need for reform of the European that process, and we should be proud of what we have Court of Human Rights and the terrible problems done and achieved. However, there are things that have caused by the large backlog of cases. I am sure that all come out of the Court that rightly give everyone concern. hon. Members know of constituents who simply do not I wish briefly to mention two with which I have had a know whether a case that they have submitted will ever personal involvement. be heard, and who do not know where they stand. First, a lady came to speak at a meeting I organised My hon. Friend the Member for North Thanet (Mr Gale) about four years ago. I have not spoken to her this and others commented on the importance of internet afternoon, so I will not mention her name, but she has governance in Europe. That is important in terms not been in the papers. She was the victim of a sexual only of internet freedoms, which were an important assault by somebody who had five convictions for sexually part of the Arab spring, but of personal security and assaulting women, but who was successfully able to use trade. We need the internet to work as an open common article 8 of the European convention on human rights trading environment. People who seek to pass off goods to ensure that he was not deported back to Sierra or to break copyright and intellectual property protections Leone. That is a very good example of the human rights on goods and services in the EU, and who use the of women in this country not being put first. We are internet to facilitate that, should know that the force of putting the rights of rapists and serial sex attackers law will come down on them. That is a challenge for the first, and that has to be wrong. Council of Europe, the Government and the EU. I should like to use the time allowed not to go over The second issue, which has also been mentioned some of the matters that have already been covered, but today, is the interference in the Government’s decision to ask the Minister to consider ethics and integrity in to try to raise the age for marrying a foreign spouse sport—another important matter—as part of the work from 18 to 21. When I served on the Home Affairs of the UK chairmanship of the Council of Europe. The Committee under the excellent chairmanship of the debate is timely, given the Council’s work on match right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), who fixing, on which it has engaged with UEFA. It is also was here earlier, we took part in an inquiry into forced part of the general debate on the reform of FIFA, the marriages. We heard terrible and shocking evidence that governing body of world football, about which members they were widespread in some communities, and that of the Council have also had things to say. some young women had said in private to British embassy officials, “Please don’t give this man a visa. I don’t want Sport and the ethics of sport have played an important to marry him,” but were unable to say that in public role in the Council of Europe since it was started in because of family pressure. As a result, judges in 1949. Through the years, the Council has built up immigration tribunals did not take account of evidence significant competence in specialised areas such as quality that had been given in private, and they granted spouse assurance in sport, and agreements adopted at world visas. That is why the Government wanted to raise the and European political levels. The Council of Europe age—to protect the human rights of young females in has a unique and important role to play within the certain communities in this country. That should be a sporting environment. It is not a member state Government, priority. an EU institution or an international Government or body, but a forum that brings together people who have I absolutely support gay rights and think it is totally concerns about the future of Europe, how countries unacceptable that anyone should be discriminated against work together, and the rights and freedoms that we all because of their sexual orientation. I sometimes think, enjoy. It works across the political spectrum, including though, that that battle has already been won. I would in the world of culture and sport. not have thought that many people would think that acceptable any more, certainly in this country. I therefore The Council passed the enlarged partial agreement wonder whether we should prioritise what I think is an on sport, which provides a forum for a discussion of even bigger issue for all of us—the thousands of young ethics in sport and for championing those issues. In 2005 girls in this country and across Europe, and young the Committee of Ministers adopted a recommendation males in some instances, who become the victims of that called on the Council to consider that forced marriage, domestic slavery, genital mutilation “good governance in sport is a complex network of policy measures and other such completely unacceptable things. and private regulations used to promote integrity in the management of the core values of sport such as democratic, ethical, efficient I am not a member of the Council of Europe, although and accountable sports activities; and that these measures apply I would be more than happy to support it in any way if I equally to the public administration sector of sport and to the were asked to do so. None the less, I look forward very non-governmental sports sector”. 563 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 564 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) The Committee also called on the Council to consider the first step towards cleaning up FIFA. It should setting up involve people from outside the organisation and from “mechanisms to monitor the implementation of good governance different walks of life—perhaps judges, people in politics in sport principles, and put in place mechanisms to deal with and people with experience of governance in other inappropriate or unethical behaviours in sport, including prosecution sporting institutions—who could take the lead and have where necessary.” the power to initiate their own investigations, produce Those are fundamental points, and I am pleased that their own reports and do so in public. FIFA has set up a the Council considered them in its working activities. It taskforce to look at good governance within FIFA. I could bring those recommendations to bear and raise think that that needs to move faster and that it should the issue of good governance with FIFA, the world consider commissioning people from outside the football body. An active debate on that has been led by organisation to lead the investigations internally. That Members of this Parliament—the Select Committee on is absolutely key. Culture, Media and Sport this year produced a report on FIFA reform and allegations of corruption against We know of the concerns expressed by some of the senior officials within the game. judges who have served on FIFA’s ethics committee. In January one of Germany’s most respected judges, Günter FIFA is based in Europe, and as we have heard, almost Hirsch, left the committee in disgust and said: every country is represented in the Council of Europe. One country that is not represented is the Vatican, “The events of the past few weeks have raised and strengthened which FIFA is like in some ways. It has an extremely the impression that responsible persons in Fifa have no real powerful global figure—Sepp Blatter—who is beyond interest in playing an active role in resolving, punishing and the protection of government. He certainly moves around avoiding violations against ethic regulations of Fifa.” the world like a latter-day pontiff or monarch, and is These are legitimate areas of public concern, and it is above the counsel of both court and Parliament. legitimate for Parliament to take an interest in them People who love the game of football, which is played too. FIFA has taken some steps forward in the past few around the world, including within the jurisdiction of weeks. The idea that the location of the World cup this Parliament, ask, “Is that right? Is there a role for should be decided not by an elite few people in the international bodies such as the Council of Europe and game, but by representatives of every FIFA member, is parliamentary bodies and Parliaments to speak up?” a step in the right direction. However, widespread Allegations of corruption against senior members of investigations are needed into all the allegations of FIFA and members of the FIFA executive committee corruption made so far, so that there can be a clean have been made in this Parliament. It is right that we slate. take those allegations up with such governing bodies, and that we challenge the president of FIFA, Sepp There has to be greater transparency in the work of Blatter. It is also right to ask whether FIFA is putting its FIFA and in how its money is spent, particularly in house in order, and whether the concerns of the citizens developing football countries around the world, so that of Europe, including citizens of this country, are being it can be audited and publicly accounted for, just as the dealt with by governing bodies. Should we not seek to work of Parliament or the Government is. The backgrounds prosecute people who have done wrong, and launch of people who serve on international bodies such as independent investigations into allegations of wrongdoing? FIFA should be clear. If they have any conflicts of FIFA is a particularly good—or rather, bad—example interest those should be made clear, as is the case for a of a body challenged by allegations of corruption against member of the Government or a Member of Parliament. its most senior people. In the past 12 months, of the If they have financial interests, or their family members leading 24 FIFA members who make up the executive have financial interests, in football, it should be on the committee, 11 have faced serious allegations of corruption, public record. Any pounds spent by FIFA anywhere in two have been suspended, one has been banned for life, the world should be accounted for. We should know one has resigned and four are currently under investigation. where they go. That is what is required to put football’s This is a body in considerable crisis. In June Sepp governing body back on an even keel and to restore Blatter, the president of FIFA, committed the organisation faith in it. However, because of how it is constituted, to leading a process of internal reform. I believe that that change has to be driven by FIFA and Sepp Blatter. that process needs to move a lot more quickly. I believe The pace of that change and reform must be greatly that no real progress has been made. At the FIFA accelerated, and it must have a degree of transparency congress earlier this month, Sepp Blatter set out a that it simply does not have now. The Council of Europe, taskforce. and the UK’s chairmanship of it, could consider that matter as part of the work of the Council’s sub-committee Mr Binley: My hon. Friend knows that I am very on youth and sport. We should debate those issues interested in football, and in fact played for a long time. within that forum, alongside its work on other areas of Does he not think that Sepp Blatter is part of the ethics in sport, particularly match fixing, as I mentioned problem, not part of the answer, and that the review of earlier. It should produce its own report and view to FIFA ought to be independent and made up of a global add to the external pressure that must be placed on group of people who really understand football? FIFA, if the necessary reforms are to be put in place and we are to have confidence in FIFA as a world Damian Collins: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. governing body. That would be an incredibly important For a review of FIFA to have any meaning, there needs and popular thing for the Council of Europe to do, and to be a fully independent investigation into all the a great way for the UK’s chairmanship to demonstrate allegations made. Transparency International, which its commitment to ethics and sport, as well as the other conducted a report for FIFA, said that this should be important areas of work that the Minister outlined. 565 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 566 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) 5.19 pm Mr Clappison: I think it has been conceded that any Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): It is a great citizen in the European Union who feels that their human pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for rights have been breached can already take the European Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins). I am sure that Union to the European Court of Human Rights through football supporters throughout the United Kingdom the activities of their member state. That can already be would echo his remarks—as an England supporter, I done, and it is not clear what the effect of the European certainly endorse what he said—and I am sure that Union joining the convention will be. everyone shares his concern about how our beloved However, having said that, I deal with this issue in a game is being administered internationally. pragmatic way. We are where we are; the European I have already paid tribute to my hon. Friend the Union is going to join. The question for British Member for North Dorset (Mr Walter) for his sterling representation and our chairmanship of the Council of work in leading the British delegation to the Council Europe is how we make a success of things and smooth of Europe, but I would also like to pay tribute to out some of the difficulties. I urge my right hon. Friend Opposition Members who have led the delegation while I the Minister for Europe to pay careful attention to the have been a member of it. I also pay tribute to my hon. points that my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope), who raised about the way in which the European Union is the chairman of the Council of Europe’s migration members in the Committee of Ministers will operate. committee, on which I have the pleasure of serving, for There should be no question of any caucusing or any all his hard work in that capacity, and in such an departure from the representation that normally takes important field. It has been instructive and interesting place, where every member state on the Committee of for me to see how other European Union member states Ministers sits as an individual member state. If we and their representatives view migration. For my part, I depart from that principle, we are in danger of creating am concerned that the questions of who should be two classes of members in the Council of Europe: those permitted to cross borders, who should be permitted to that are members of the European Union and those reside in countries, settle in them and become citizens, that are not. That would be damaging, so I hope that it and who should be removed from them should principally does not happen. be a matter for member states’ Parliaments and not I feel confident that my right hon. Friend and his determined by European law. We must be careful to colleagues will work hard to ensure that that does not ensure that the jurisprudence of the European Court of happen, so that we obtain whatever benefits are to be Human Rights does not obtrude unnecessarily in the obtained—at least there is one Member in the Chamber, field of migration. speaking for the Liberal Democrats, who thinks there I want to make three points about what lies ahead for will be some benefits; I think it will be more a question the British chairmanship of the Council of Europe. The of mitigating the damage—and make the best of things. first concerns the European Union. I have already made My hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset is not one speech in the Chamber about the European Union approaching these issues as one who is a completely this week, and Members might feel that one is enough hardened Eurosceptic, as we know from his speech on for a week—I certainly feel it is. However, it is not me this matter the other evening. His voice on this should who is bringing the European Union into this debate; be listened to, as someone who wants this to succeed rather, the European Union is bringing itself in. It seeks and who is taking a pragmatic point of view. I hope that to accede to the European convention on human rights my right hon. Friend the Minister will pay attention to and wants Members of the European Parliament to that, and work hard, as I know he does in every other participate in some of the Council of Europe’s activities. field of the European Union, to make this a success. I have many reservations of principle about the accession My second point that the British chairmanship could of the European Union to the Council of Europe and take forward relates to the emerging democracies on the the European convention on human rights. I am not clear borders and in the neighbourhood of Europe. I am on what basis the EU seeks to accede to the convention, thinking particularly of those that have been involved because every other member of the convention is a nation in the Arab spring. The Council of Europe has built up state and the EU says that it is not one. I am not clear as a good record over a long period of helping to promote to whether the change is needed, because the member democracy in newly democratic states in Europe. Indeed, states of the European Union are already members of that is part of its history that has perhaps not been the Council of Europe and the European Union already emphasised sufficiently this afternoon. It started in the has a charter of fundamental rights, to which the treaty of dark days of the cold war, when it had a small membership. Lisbon gives legal effect, covering much the same ground As the cold war ended, and we began to have more as the European convention on human rights. As a democratic states in Europe, the Council of Europe did result, the prevailing legal position on human rights in a very good job of promoting and safeguarding democratic Europe could be complicated by the two sets of conventions. values. Martin Horwood: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Obviously, the countries on the borders of Europe in Mr Clappison: I will certainly give way to the hon. the Arab world are in a different position, but there can Gentleman, who is an enthusiast for the convention if be a role for the Council of Europe in promoting nothing else. democracy in those countries. It has already established its partnership for democracy scheme, which is now in Martin Horwood: Surely the point is that the European operation in Morocco, and it has agreed to give the Union institutions should not be beyond the reach of same status to the Palestinian Authority. This can only the convention. Is the hon. Gentleman not missing the be a good thing, and it is in everyone’s interests to opportunity to take the European Commission to the promote human rights in countries that have had a European Court? political culture of dictatorship and have not been 567 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 568 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) democracies in the recent past. I would therefore urge It has turned out to be the case—not least through my right hon. Friend the Minister to take forward that the work of the Council of Europe and Senator Marty— good work, as it will be to the profit of the Council of that there were indeed matters that needed to have light Europe and of this country. shed on them at that time. I believe that apologies or My third point is a more general one, and it echoes acknowledgements have been made that there were some of the points made already this afternoon, particularly problems involving extraordinary rendition, which were by my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough denied from the Dispatch Box but were in fact taking (Mr Leigh). May we have a tighter focus during our place. There certainly were issues of extraordinary rendition chairmanship on what are generally regarded as human on British territory, and there were the “black sites” and rights? It would be quite an undertaking to try to define the circuit flights used for that purpose in Europe more human rights in the time that I have available, but I widely. All of that was brought to light through the would like us to focus on those things that members of work of the Council of Europe. The Council of Europe the public, our constituents, would recognise as human has indeed played a very good role, as torture is something rights. They include the right to life itself, the right to that I think we would all accept as being a breach of freedom of expression, the right to freedom of religion human rights. My hon. Friends who served on the and the right to freedom of assembly. Those are generally relevant committees did a very good job in helping to accepted as human rights. reveal the facts. It has to be said that, today in Britain, human rights The Council of Europe does not receive a great deal have rather a poor image compared with the one that they of publicity in this country, but I think it does a very had 20 or 30 years ago. Today, if one raises the issue of good job in dialogue with other member states, including human rights with the general public, one is more likely the new democracies in Europe. It does a good job also to elicit a groan than a cheer. That was not always the in dialogue with the states that have observer status on case, however. Certainly, in the 1960s, 1970s and—dare the Council of Europe, including the state of Israel. It I say it—the 1980s, people regarded human rights in a has certainly worked hard with those observer countries positive way. They associated them with admirable to promote human rights through them. organisations such as Amnesty International, with the The question of the cost of the Council of Europe dissidents in the former Soviet Union and with the was raised by the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John people fighting apartheid in South Africa. Human rights Mann). I think we all need to be vigilant about the costs had a positive image, but things are very different today. of these international assemblies, but as has been said, the Council of Europe has not had its expenditure In his excellent speech, my hon. Friend the Member increased, so it has had a real-terms reduction over for Gainsborough made some important points about several years. We should all look carefully at this. the perception of human rights. I have to say that there is a clue as to what the turning point was. It seems to Perhaps a better place to start in the search for cost have come at about the same time as the passage of the reductions in our representation in international Human Rights Act 1998. I remember this because I was organisations would be with the European Parliament, in the House at the time. There were those who said that which has—today, as it happens—submitted a request we should be careful about the effect of incorporating for a 5.2% increase in the European budget, coming on the convention on human rights into British law. They top of a claim for an increase of 6% last year, which pointed out that our legal system was very different resulted in an actual increase of 2.9%. I hope that our from other European legal systems, and that the effect Ministers will continue to work as hard as they have—it of its incorporation could create considerable difficulty. is very much to the credit of my right hon. and hon. They also said that it could lead to more and more Friends that they were at the forefront of the effort—to judgments of a political nature masquerading as judgments keep the European budget down. They fought hard, but on human rights. So far as the Council of Europe is of course they have to work with the other member concerned, if Ministers can bring the focus on human states and the other institutions of the EU. There was rights more tightly on to what people regard as human certainly no lack of effort. In light of the comments rights, that would be a good thing. from the hon. Member for Bassetlaw, I hope that my right hon. and hon. Friends’ work to control these There is still a need for the safeguarding of human budgets will get support from all parties. I hope we will rights in Europe, and even—dare I say it—in this country. not hear something said from either side of the Dispatch Even after the passage of the much-vaunted Human Box that is not then followed up in the activities of the Rights Act, there have been serious violations of human MEPs of the parties in question. rights affecting this country that were not even covered by the Act. They have, however, been the subject of very I wish the Minister for Europe well in his role. I know good investigations by the Council of Europe. I am he is very busy, with many other matters to attend to. I thinking particularly—this took place during my time hope that Britain makes a success, as I am sure it will, of on the Council of Europe—of the very good investigation its chairmanship of the Council of Europe. There will into extraordinary rendition, which was carried out by be some big issues to confront. I am sure that my right the Swiss senator, Mr Marty, and the relevant committee hon. and hon. Friends will rise to those issues and that of the Council of Europe. At that time, the question of we will showcase our own very good record in these extraordinary rendition was not terribly fashionable. matters, while also giving impetus on the important Only a few lonely voices, such as that of my hon. Friend challenges that lie ahead—not just in Europe, but in the the Member for Chichester (Mr Tyrie), raised the issue countries near to Europe—in promoting and safeguarding here, and he was met by a wall of silence when he did so. human rights at this very sensitive time. It was denied that there were any problems for this 5.34 pm country with extraordinary rendition. My hon. Friend tried to shed light on it, but not much light was shed. Mr Lidington: With the leave of the House, Mr Speaker. 569 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 570 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Mr Lidington] I am under no illusion about the fact that agreeing on the necessary reforms will not be easy. Consensus among First, let me thank every Member who has taken part all 47 member states is required. I am, however, struck in what has been a thoughtful and wide-ranging discussion by the degree of consensus that already exists. Virtually of issues within the remit of the Council of Europe. everyone agrees that the current situation is unsustainable The speech of my hon. Friend the Member for and undermines the court’s authority and effectiveness. Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins), in which he However, we have already made progress. In April this dwelt on how the Council of Europe addresses questions year, all 47 countries called for the court to exercise of sport and seeks to root out corruption in sport, restraint when interfering in national decisions on the served to remind us of the breadth of the remit of the deportation of asylum seekers and others who have Council and its various committees. exhausted fair and effective domestic court procedures. Since then, we have talked to many member states and My hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Martin to key individuals in the Council of Europe. We know Horwood), who referred to Russia and other countries that there is an appetite for further reforms. We will whose human rights records have been subject to a great work energetically to gain agreement on a reform package, deal of criticism, reminded us that, although we who and will give it the highest priority during our chairmanship. live in countries with long and well-established national I shall respond to as many points raised as possible. I traditions of human rights sometimes find it irksome apologise to any colleagues whose contributions I do when judgments are made against us, the principles that not have time to address, and I undertake to write to are incorporated in the convention, and subject to them. judgments by an independent court, still matter hugely to citizens of countries that do not have established, My hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset centuries-old traditions such as those that we are fortunate (Mr Walter) asked several questions. On the budget of enough to enjoy. the EU Fundamental Rights Agency, the UK has long- stressed the importance of the EU not duplicating the My hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere work of the COE, which we believe is, and should (Mr Clappison) rightly drew attention to the way in remain, the prime European focus for work on human which the Council of Europe is already contributing to rights. While the FRA of the European Union does the development of democratic traditions and the growth some interesting research, the COE does far more valuable of the rule of law in the fledgling democracies of north work, and does so with fewer resources. Africa. We strongly support that work, and hope that it will continue. When he pointed out that in this country, My hon. Friend also questioned the figures I gave on until fairly recently, human rights were regarded universally the backlog of cases. I have had the latest figures as something that should be welcomed and supported, I checked and there are approximately 155,000 cases in was reminded of the fact that the European convention the backlog. That figure has dropped slightly in recent on human rights was, and is, based on noble ideas. At times, from about 160,000. the end of last month, I met in Warsaw members of My hon. Friend focused on the accession of the EU the opposition parties from Belarus, one of the few to the COE, and my hon. Friend the Member for countries in Europe that are not party to the convention. Hertsmere also mentioned that. This is a complex matter, That brought home to me the importance of our not and negotiations are still ongoing. I undertake to write taking for granted the liberties and rights that we and to my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset, our citizens enjoy. My hon. Friend’s comments about giving further details on this, but for now I shall briefly extraordinary rendition were a salutary reminder that, explain where we are at present. As the House knows, however strong our traditions of human rights in much EU accession to the COE was one element of the treaty of Europe, we cannot afford to be complacent about of Lisbon, which was ratified by all 27 member states in them. 2009. There is considerable fear that the interaction of EU accession in its own right to the COE with the duty As has emerged during the debate, there is a range of of sincere co-operation, which applies to all member views about how human rights are best protected, and states of the EU, could lead to the creation of an EU about the respective roles of national authorities and caucus within the structures of the COE. The British the European Court of Human Rights. That is, of Government’s position is that while we accept what is course, one of the issues that we intend to address written in the Lisbon treaty—that the EU should accede during our chairmanship. The principle that we will to the COE—and while we can see the advantages of advance is that national authorities of member states—their placing the institutions of the EU clearly within the Governments, legislatures and courts—have the primary remit of the European Court of Human Rights, we will responsibility to guarantee and protect human rights at only agree to the detailed instrument of accession when a national level. The role of the European Court of we are completely satisfied about the detail not only of Human Rights is subsidiary in achieving those objectives. the drafting of the instrument of accession itself, but, During our chairmanship, we will work with all the importantly, of the drafting of the EU’s own set of rules member states of the Council of Europe to see how that on how its membership of the COE would be made agreed guiding principle, which was built into the Izmir operational and how, in particular, that would interact declaration earlier this year, should work and can be with the duty of sincere co-operation. strengthened. However, it is important to note that the corollary of the principle is proper implementation of Mr Clappison: I welcome my right hon. Friend’s the convention by national authorities. Of course the approach to this matter. Can he confirm that in his United Kingdom should still be subject to judgments of discussions at the European level, we will have a right of the Strasbourg court, but the court should not normally veto? In other words, will this be subject to unanimity, need to intervene in cases that have already been properly so we can insist on the very important points he has just considered by national courts applying the convention. made? 571 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 572 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) Mr Lidington: My hon. Friend is right: there has to My hon. Friends the Members for Esher and Walton be unanimity within the EU before accession can take (Mr Raab) and for Gainsborough asked about the place. Further, there must also be an important role for recommendation by the Bill of Rights commission that our Parliament. Under the European Union Act 2011, the Strasbourg Court should consider only the most once agreement is reached on the detail of EU accession, important cases. Our position as a Government on this the Government would be required to place that decision is that the Court should focus on areas where the before each House of Parliament, and there would have convention is not being properly applied or where there to be a debate and a vote in this place and in the House is a genuine need at the European level for authoritative of Lords before the UK could ratify EU accession to guidance on its interpretation. Where member states are the COE. So not only the British Government but applying the convention effectively, the Court should Parliament have to agree before that can happen. intervene less. The hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock My hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough also (Sandra Osborne) asked, first, whether British Ministers raised a number of concerns about immigration. He would report to the Parliamentary Assembly during the will understand if I do not comment on individual six months of our chairmanship. The answer is yes. I cases, especially on the basis of Mr Woolas’s memoirs. have agreed to attend the session in Edinburgh in November My hon. Friend said that his arguments were not so and those in Strasbourg in February and April next much about the principles embodied in the convention— year to report on the progress made under our indeed, he spoke up in favour of the convention—but chairmanship. about the means by which it is implemented and applied The hon. Lady also asked for examples of cases in in this country. I take his comments in that spirit. I which the Court had substituted its judgment for that of remind him again of the work of the independent national courts. An issue that came up in the Interlaken commission and encourage him to make representations declaration on the removal of people from a country to Sir Leigh Lewis and his colleagues. I would also when their case had been properly considered by the recommend, if he has not done so already, that he have national courts is key here, as all 47 countries agreed a look at the very thought-provoking speech made by that the Court was looking in too much detail at matters my right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney-General that had been quite properly considered by national at Lincoln’s Inn on Monday, in which, among other authorities. In recent judgments against not only us but things, he discussed the relationship of the United Sweden, the Court has checked findings of fact made Kingdom Supreme Court to the European Court of by national courts in cases about removing people from Human Rights and indicated how his thinking was the country. For example, it has insisted on considering developing on that matter. the applicant’s credibility or family situation, but those My hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel) are not matters that should be considered at the European made several criticisms—more, I think, of the level. implementation of the convention in this country than My right hon. and learned Friend the Justice Secretary of the convention per se. I took her points seriously. went to Izmir, and the declaration adopted at that When she and other hon. Friends make those criticisms, conference in April called for a stricter approach to they are speaking on behalf of large numbers of constituents interim measures under rule 39, which, as the hon. Lady who have expressed concerns. But I would caution my knows, is often used to halt deportations, with the hon. Friend and the House about one of the statistics Court intervening only exceptionally if cases have been that was deployed—the claim that the Court finds a considered by fair and effective national procedures. I violation in 87% of all cases and in 61% of cases against hope that the marker put down by all 47 countries at the United Kingdom. These proportions are only of the Izmir also gives some comfort to my hon. Friends the cases where there is a judgment. We must remember Members for Northampton South (Mr Binley) and for that 97% of cases against the UK are thrown out Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) and others who have expressed without even having their merits considered, because particular concern about the impact of Court judgments they are ruled inadmissible. If we look at the raw figures on immigration policy. for 2010 and 2011 so far, the Court has decided 1,713 cases that were brought against the United Kingdom, My hon. Friends the Members for Northampton but only 33 of those 1,713 were decided by a judgment; South and for Portsmouth South (Mr Hancock) asked the rest were simply ruled inadmissible by the Court or about the appointment of judges and whether the Interlaken struck out completely. Given that only 33 went to a process would diminish the democratic element regarding judgment, it is not wholly surprising that a relatively the election of judges to the Strasbourg court. The key high proportion of those 33 cases were decently arguable part of the process that requires reform is the national and led to the finding of a violation. procedures by which each state selects the list of three candidates whom it proposes to the Parliamentary My hon. Friend also spoke about how one set of Assembly. If we get this right, concerns about the rights was seen to be overruled by another set. I know quality of judges should fall away. We have welcomed that comes up frequently at public events. As the House the establishment of a panel of the Council of Ministers knows, and members of the Parliamentary Assembly of to ensure that all states put forward three well-qualified the Council of Europe know all too well, the convention candidates for those posts and it has already taken expresses a number of different human rights and it is a France to task on this very point. We are driving clear principle that where those rights conflict there is a forward work on a recommendation that would lay duty on the countries that are party to the convention down standards for national procedures in all 47 states, to balance those rights in a way that is just and and I am pleased to report that according to the proportionate in the circumstances of a particular case. Parliamentary Assembly itself the United Kingdom is a There is a legitimate debate about where the right to beacon of good practice in this regard. take a final decision in any case should lie—with Strasbourg, 573 Council of Europe (UK 27 OCTOBER 2011 Council of Europe (UK 574 Chairmanship) Chairmanship) [Mr Lidington] and sexual abuse, we agree completely. That is an appalling crime and a form of child sexual abuse. Tackling it is an with domestic courts, with legislatures or with the Executive absolute priority for the Government. The convention in a particular country. Then there is a further argument sets standards to ensure that countries criminalise sexual about whether, in any individual circumstances, whichever exploitation and the abuse of children and adopt similar authority it is has achieved the right balance in finding standards of investigation and prosecution of these a judgment that is right, just and proportionate. We will crimes. Officials across a number of Departments are never get away completely from that type of argument, currently considering in detail the steps that would be any more than we do when we read reports of judgments required to ratify the convention. I am sure that a report in domestic civil and criminal cases. will be made to the House as soon as decisions have The hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) asked been taken. whether I would support Finnish and Spanish Ministers’ The hon. Member for Bassetlaw asked about next work on local government reform. I can guarantee that week’s cyber-space conference in London. I have been the Government will work towards a more effective and unable to check the guest list, but the conference will efficient role for the Council of Europe in supporting encompass the issue of cyber-crime and a lot more, too. local and regional democracy.We want to see the Council’s It will deal with economic growth, the social benefits of work in this field streamlined and more carefully targeted. using cyber-space, safe and reliable access to it, and We are looking forward to Mr Chavez’s report and we international security. will ensure that its recommendations are given serious My hon. Friend the Member for Northampton South consideration. asked about the European Court’s backlog. We certainly My hon. Friend the Member for North Thanet (Mr Gale) aim to ensure that a time scale is set for the implementation raised constituency cases as illustrations of a general of any measures agreed during our chairmanship, including complaint that countries party to the convention allow clearing inadmissible and repetitive cases from the backlog. people to be detained for far too long without charge or We will also learn from the experience of previous trial. He fights fiercely on behalf of his constituents attempts to reform the Strasbourg Court. I completely whom he believes have been treated unjustly. He knows take the point that we must not be timid in the measures from discussions that he and I have had that the individuals we take. We will ensure that the long-term context is concerned can make an application to Strasbourg regarding considered when agreeing short and medium-term measures. an alleged violation of articles 5 and 6 by their detention I very much hope that he will be able to see the fruits of without trial. The problem is that the text of the convention the work that he supported today. does not define what a reasonable period of such detention My hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (David is. I am sure that my hon. Friend will continue to T. C. Davies) raised a number of issues, most of which campaign vigorously on this matter. related to the implementation of the convention in this My hon. Friend also asked about a convention on country. Like him, I have had some cases of forced transfrontier broadcasting. My understanding is that marriage in my constituency surgery, and I think that the European Union has exclusive competence in this the basic principle is less about the convention or the area, so there would be problems with an EU member Human Rights Act, and more about the fact that it is a state signing a Council of Europe convention on the principle of any British court or immigration tribunal matter. On that basis, the Committee of Ministers has that evidence given to a judge by one party must be agreed to discontinue work on that convention, pending shared with the other party. Like him, I have had the further consultation. However, I will consider my hon. difficult situation in constituency cases where the person Friend’s point further, consult colleagues in other who says that she is the victim is afraid to speak out in Departments that are more directly responsible for public, but the immigration judge cannot be asked to broadcasting policy and then write to him on the matter. take account of evidence in secret without the other The hon. Member for Linlithgow and Falkirk— side having the chance to respond to it and to rebut it. The Council of Europe has been enormously successful Michael Connarty: East Falkirk. in promoting common standards and values among its membership, not least as a result of the convention Mr Lidington: I do not wish to accuse him of having system, which the United Kingdom has had a hand in further territorial ambitions. creating. It matters a great deal to the Government that The hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk human rights, democracy and the rule of law flourish in (Michael Connarty) asked about two other conventions. all member states of the Council of Europe. In this On the European framework convention on youth rights, light, we see our chairmanship as a genuine opportunity the Government still take the view that we do not to strengthen further a rules-based international system recognise the need for such a convention as all the and to further British interests by strengthening the matters described in the draft recommendation are already global rule of law and championing human rights. covered by the UN convention on the rights of the Question put and agreed to. child, which actually goes further than the proposed Resolved, Council of Europe convention. On the convention on That this House has considered the matter of the UK’s the protection of children against sexual exploitation Chairmanship of the Council of Europe. 575 27 OCTOBER 2011 BAE Systems (Lancashire) 576
BAE Systems (Lancashire) national economies. BAE makes a direct contribution to them, and many other jobs in Lancashire are dependent Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House on BAE. It has been independently estimated that each —(Angela Watkinson.) do now adjourn. aerospace job creates four or five related jobs in the supply chain. There is therefore a multiplier effect on 6pm unemployment and the economic picture is far worse than the headline figure suggests. Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op): BAE Systems recently announced 1,423 job losses in Lancashire, including The announcement of more than 1,400 job losses is a 822 at the Warton site in the constituency of the hon. devastating blow, first and foremost for the workers and Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies), 565 at the Samlesbury their families, but also for the local economy and Britain’s site in your Chorley constituency, Mr Deputy Speaker, wider manufacturing and defence industries. As cuts and a further 136 elsewhere in Lancashire. Many of the are made and contracts go overseas, a highly skilled highly skilled workers who will find themselves out of workforce is being lost. I wrote to the Secretary of State work live in Preston and the surrounding area of central for Business, Innovation and Skills some weeks ago to Lancashire. ask what steps the Government are taking to limit the impact of the job losses, but I am sorry to say that, The chief executive of Preston city council, Lorraine despite the urgency, I have yet to receive a reply. Norris, has written to the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, the right hon. Friend of the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): I asked the and Skills, the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford Department for Business, Innovation and Skills about (Mr Prisk), who is here to reply to this debate, and in a an employment impact assessment, but have yet to fairly detailed letter that makes its points quite strongly, receive a credible reply.It seems that no such an assessment Ms Norris, with the support the Labour administration has been made. Does my hon. Friend agree that it in Preston, says: appears that employment is considered to be a price “Lancashire provides the greatest number of direct and indirect worth paying? EADS and the Italian workshare contractors aerospace jobs in the country and while individuals affected by are making no one unemployed—that was reported in BAE redundancies may be able to find work elsewhere by moving the Financial Times on 3 October—but the Government to other parts of the country, their skills will be lost to the local seem to think that it does not matter if 3,000 people are economy and the Lancashire economy weakened. Because of made unemployed. their long lead in time, skilled jobs lost in this way cannot easily be replaced when the country’s economic fortunes improve.” She goes on to say: Mark Hendrick: I agree. Although the enterprise zones are a welcome addition to Lancashire, they are a “Preston has been successful in moving away from an economy dominated by low-value manufacturing linked to the textile sticking plaster to try to cover the running sore that the industry”— job losses have become in Lancashire. The announcement of 1,400 job losses is a devastating blow. like Yorkshire— A key area of development at the Warton and “and broadening its economic base. We have been able to retain and expand high value manufacturing jobs linked to advanced Samlesbury sites is the manufacture of the Eurofighter engineering, with strengths in both the aerospace and nuclear Typhoon jet. It recently flew its first major combat sectors. With our partners we have been working hard to improve mission, serving in the skies over Libya to help the links between industry and the Higher Education sector—particularly National Transitional Council in its war against Gaddafi, with the Universities of Manchester and Central Lancashire… which is testament to the need for the aircraft. The As a result in the decade up to 2008 we have been able to production work is taking place in three tranches. Tranches demonstrate the third highest increase in private sector jobs in the 1 and 2, involving the production of 384 Typhoons, are country.” now complete, and include 144 jets ordered by the The Government talk about rebalancing the economy. previous Labour Government, with the remainder going Nobody and no area has done more to rebalance it than to our European partners. The Labour Government Preston and central Lancashire, given that many civil also signed up to tranche 3A, which is the subject of the service and public service jobs were located there, and current defence cuts. The coalition Government are that of course it has a large private sector. now planning to halve the UK’s tranche 3 order. BAE Unemployment is at a 17-year high. In Preston it will cut its production from 61 to 36 jets annually, stands at 5.2%, compared with 3.9% nationally, and resulting in thousands of job losses. How can the almost 5,000 people are seeking employment, which is Government justify massive cuts to our defence industry the highest level since jobseeker’s allowance was introduced. when the economy is edging towards recession? These BAE Systems employs about 40,000 people in the UK, cuts go too far, too fast and are resulting in the slowdown down from 42,000 in 2009. Many of those jobs are in production of the Typhoon aircraft. based in the north-west, and given the work’s technical nature the majority of workers are highly skilled. John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): Let me give the Minister some facts and figures. In I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. Preston and Fylde, one in four residents working in Is he aware that the disappointment and support for manufacturing works at BAE Systems, principally at those workers is shared throughout the north-west, not the Warton and Samlesbury sites. Between 2008 and least because of the synergies in the defence industry in 2010, Preston lost 4,800, or 5.1%, employee jobs, against that region? Is he also aware that Barrow shipyard is an a fall of 2.4% in the 12 districts of Lancashire and a example of how the submarine supply chain could be drop of 3.4% nationally. That is a tragedy. The success damaged as companies that supply the Typhoons lose of the company is therefore vital to the regional and orders and their workers are put under threat? 577 BAE Systems (Lancashire)27 OCTOBER 2011 BAE Systems (Lancashire) 578
Mark Hendrick: I am well aware of the synergies, the It is imperative that the Government provide a coherent skills that are employed in the submarine and shipbuilding plan of action to help Britain’s defence industry and the industries and the implications for aircraft carriers. wider manufacturing sector as a whole. The longer They are connected, and everyone who works in the BAE is able to keep workers, the better prepared it will defence industry throughout the country is worried. be to meet demand should other countries order Typhoon If the Government made more finance available, jets. Will the Minister tell the House what steps his BAE could ramp down production of Typhoons more Government are taking, not only at ministerial level but gradually, instead of the step-down transition. That through UK Trade & Investment, to secure defence would enable the company to mitigate the impact of job contracts from India and Japan, both of which have losses by steadily reducing its work force as workers now been linked to the Typhoon project? in their early 50s approach retirement. That would coincide In his first major speech after the general election, the with the conclusion of tranche 3A production in 2015. Prime Minister pledged to make the next decade The unions at BAE are in favour of that approach—a “the most entrepreneurial and dynamic in our history” gradual ramping down while meeting the country’s defence needs, instead of a drop from 61 aircraft to 36 a year and said that he wanted to from January next year—but that is not happening. As “give manufacturing another chance in this country.” in so many other areas, the Government’s strategic defence Speaking of his desire to rebalance the economy, he review was rushed and ill thought through. Labour said that Britain had become Members recognise that some savings must be made, but “heavily reliant on just a few industries and in just a few they should be part of a carefully constructed industrial regions—particularly London and the South East.” strategy, not a rushed and ideologically driven SDSR. The actions of his Government in the past year have The decision to cut production has wreaked havoc demonstrated that those were empty words. with BAE’s medium-term and long-term plans and produced a great deal of uncertainty. A highly skilled BAE is a world-leading manufacturer that contributed work force will be lost forever. Thousands of years of £4.9 billion to UK exports in 2009—about 2.1% of accumulated experience and skills will be thrown aside, Britain’s total goods. Half its UK employees are based and although orders may arrive in future from India or, in the north, and it is being forced to cut jobs. The possibly, Japan, the loss of these workers will be tragic. manufacturing industry base of this country is in crisis Many will go to work in other parts of the country and and the Government have no clear plan of action—indeed, take up new positions; many will take early retirement by squeezing the life out of the economy, they are and be lost to the industry for ever. significantly contributing to the problem. Simply put, this Conservative-led Government do The Prime Minister and the Chancellor claimed at not understand the consequences that their policies the Budget to have a plan for growth. Is it not the case have on workers, on businesses or on the manufacturing that the cuts will not help growth in this country, but economy as a whole. Typhoon could be made more will achieve the opposite by reducing production and competitive and attractive for export by improvements GDP to make the economy worse off, not better? Time to its radar capabilities. Will the Government fund the and again, this Conservative Government have shown a development of the E-Scan radar system? If so, will the complete lack of support for the manufacturing sector Minister update the House on whether funding has in this country. We saw it with Bombardier, we saw it been allocated for that development and whether the with Sheffield Forgemasters, and now we are seeing it finance has been sent to SELEX or to BAE Systems? I with BAE Systems. I promise you, Mr Deputy Speaker, invite the Minister to intervene to deal with that point. that Britain will not recover from the global economic crisis without a strong manufacturing base. The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation We know that the cuts are going too far and too fast. and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): As the hon. Gentleman We know that there are problems in the eurozone that knows, the assessment is under way between the Governments are grappling with. Those problems will Government and industry, and it would be a mistake to make us much more likely to go into recession. The pre-judge its outcome. We are funding and engaged in measures that the Government are taking in cutting that assessment programme and we are hopeful that it the defence budget are also causing problems in keeping will be advantageous. It is important to bear in mind the economy moving. When are the Government going that this will be at the forefront of European technology; to realise that and start providing the support that the it is an important long-term investment. manufacturing industry in this country is crying out for? Mark Hendrick: I am not sure whether that was a yes or a no on whether the funding was made available. When trade unions met the Under-Secretary of State 6.15 pm for Defence, the hon. Member for Aldershot (Mr Howarth), at the Conservative party conference—the Minister of Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): I thank the hon. Member State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, for Preston (Mark Hendrick) for being generous in the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford, was also allowing me to take some time in an important debate present at the meeting, but arrived late—they were for all our constituencies. Yourconstituency, Mr Deputy assured that the money had been allocated for E-Scan Speaker, and mine share a plant. I have the proud home radar, but Ian King from BAE Systems has said that no of BAE Systems in Warton and you have Samlesbury. money has been allocated or transferred to the company, We do not need to think too long and hard to know and SELEX says the same, despite the fact that the how important those jobs and those plants are. We also Defence Minister gave assurances that that money was know how devastating such job losses are for local going to the E-Scan programme. communities. 579 BAE Systems (Lancashire)27 OCTOBER 2011 BAE Systems (Lancashire) 580
I want to use this debate to remind the House of what and those of other Members who are in their places, the Government are doing and to focus on what is still both in Lancashire and across the border at Brough. Of to be done. The Government are supporting Typhoon course, it also affects your constituency, Mr Deputy exports in a way that no Government have in recent Speaker. history. There are some positive stories and some potential contracts that could come home. Alan Johnson (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab): Will the Minister give way? Graham Jones: I ask all Members, and particularly the hon. Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies), whether Mr Prisk: The geography of the debate does not there will be a displacement of the RAF orders into the extend beyond Lancashire, but I will give way briefly. export orders. That is the big question. Alan Johnson: I appreciate that. The Minister will be Mark Menzies: The hon. Gentleman raises an important aware that some of the work going to Samlesbury and point. Some of the orders that were originally planned Warton is going from the East Riding. Is he also aware for the RAF could well be displaced into other orders. that the view of workers at Warton and Samlesbury is My main concern is ensuring that aircraft are being that they do not have the capability or capacity to deal built. Who the end customer is is a secondary matter. I with the Hawk? There is suspicion that the Hawk will want aircraft to be built in my constituency, and I want eventually be built abroad. He will know that I, the its world-class work force to be employed. right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden We saw the world-class Typhoon aircraft coming of (Mr Davis) and all other local MPs are determined to age in Libya. I would like to ensure that systems such as stop the closure of a plant that has manufactured the E-Scan radar are fully available for export orders aerospace equipment for 100 years. Will he agree to should the customer require them. On the Typhoon, I consider imaginative proposals, which may include the know that the Government have given a commitment to civil aerospace industry, to keep that manufacturing tranche 3 upgrades. It is important that those come plant open? through in a timely manner so that BAE Systems can manage the work flow. On the unmanned aerial combat Mr Prisk: I do not want to get ahead of myself on the vehicle programme, the Government have signed a broader issues, and I will come in a moment to the fact memorandum of understanding with France. That is that we are in a 90-day consultation process and the hugely important, but we must get it moving quickly so company has to demonstrate a business case. The right that BAE Systems can plan the workload and allocate hon. Gentleman and my right hon. Friend the Member people across the programmes. for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) have made it Let us not forget that BAE Systems is an incredibly very clear—rightly so, in my view—that the company profitable private global defence company. It has made has to make that case. I have said that to the work force, more than £1 billion of profit this year. Therefore, this and I say it to Members throughout the House. Members, issue is not just about what the Government are doing, particularly those with the experience that the right but about ensuring that BAE Systems is doing everything hon. Gentleman has, are well placed to challenge that necessary. I would like to sound one note of caution. business case. The Government need to ensure that we When BAE Systems is entering into work-share agreements strike a balance so that we are ready to act if, at the end for global deals, it must ensure that it always acts in the of the 90 days, it turns out that we have the problems interest of the work force, not just in the interests of the that he has described. I will not get drawn into the pros shareholders. We must ensure that work that could be and cons now, because I will want to see the business done in the UK is done in the UK, as opposed to being case, as will the Secretary of State. exported to other countries. I want BAE Systems to Before I was interrupted on that important point, I stop and think about that, because it has a commitment was about to put on record the fact that I want to to Lancashire and to UK plc. extend my sympathy to all those affected by the Finally, I welcome the enterprise zones that have been announcement. The Government recognise, and I recognise, identified for Warton and Samlesbury. They can be the human cost involved in such cuts, and how they much more than a sticking plaster. In a meeting that I affect individuals, families and communities. I fully had with the Prime Minister at the Conservative party recognise that BAE Systems is, as the hon. Member for conference, we got the commitment that UKTI would Preston pointed out, one of the largest employers in be fully engaged to ensure that those are not just glorified Lancashire. I am acutely aware of the depth of the local business parks, but that they attract the very best the impact that will affect many people. world can offer. Yes, there is a tough economic climate, I wish to address a number of issues that have been but we have to be ambitious for Lancashire because its raised. First, the hon. Gentleman referred in his opening people deserve no less. We have a world-class work force remarks to a letter that he had written to the Secretary who have the full range of skills. We have to go out and of State. I have asked my officials to check, and we have sell those sites and that work force—I call on the no record of receiving such a letter on BAE. We have a Minister to help us in this—so that when people invest record of a letter about supermarkets dated 4 October, in the months and years to come, they offer jobs and a but I assume that is not the one. Perhaps at the end of future that we can be proud of. the debate he could give me a copy of the letter so that I can ensure that it goes to the Secretary of State. 6.19 pm There was quite a lot of party political discussion The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation from the hon. Gentleman, implying that the Government and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): I congratulate the hon. have no interest in the manufacturing industry. I strongly Member for Preston (Mark Hendrick) on securing this refute that. He did not mention the changes to the tax debate on an important issue that affects his constituents law to ensure capital allowances, the improved investment 581 BAE Systems (Lancashire)27 OCTOBER 2011 BAE Systems (Lancashire) 582
[Mr Prisk] The third question, which is just as important, is how we help local economies. On this subject, the Chancellor in the manufacturing advisory service or the changes listened carefully, in particular to my hon. Friend the that we are making through the advanced manufacturing Member for Fylde, who argued that there needed to be technology and innovation centre, alongside the other a kick-start for the locality in addition to help for work we are doing on aerospace. I hope that we can get individuals. That is why last month the Government the party political banter out of the way and focus on responded positively by inviting both the Lancashire the issue that affects his constituents, but I think he will and the Humber local enterprise partnerships to submit understand that I am not prepared to ignore remarks proposals for two new enterprise zones. They are important, suggesting that the Government do not take manufacturing because they provide real advantages for areas such as seriously. We do, and I do. Warton and Salmesbury—and Brough, if I may stretch I now turn to the causes of the problem, and some of the geography of Lancashire temporarily. the things that the Government intend to do and are already acting on. The company has advised us that the Graham Jones: Will the Minister give way? problem was caused principally by changes in key international programmes and the need to remain globally Mr Prisk: I will get to E-Scan in a moment. competitive at a time when defence spending in many The business rate discount, the retention of the money nations is under huge pressure. We are all well aware for a 25-year period, the radical simplification of the that public finances are tight, and defence budgets are planning system and the support to ensure superfast not immune. I think even the Opposition Front Benchers broadband are crucial to enterprise zones, but that understand that. Although a decision of this nature is a there are a couple of aspects of LEPs that I often feel commercial issue for the company, it is therefore absolutely are lost in some of the coverage—the use of tax increment right that the Government should do all they can to finance to ensure the long-term viability of the zone, help those affected. and the UKTI support for inward investment and trade I have talked in the past few weeks to Members— opportunities. Given the civil and military nature of including you, Mr Deputy Speaker, in your role representing aerospace, we are looking to talk to both the Lancashire your constituents—and they have all understood those LEP and the Humber and Hull LEP about those two concerns. I also had the opportunity to meet workers enhancement aspects, to see whether they can be a core while I was in Manchester. I re-emphasise that I understand part of the offer. that during the 90-day consultation process, Members One hon. Member asked a question on Typhoon. and workers will wish to challenge the business case, The four Typhoon partner nations have decided to and rightly so. We will see what the outcome of that is. extend the programme, so that both domestic and export However, we must ensure that the Government have a orders can be dealt with in a way that means we can plan in place if those redundancies are made, and I sustain capacity. That means that the programme’s should like to set out the practical help available to hon. production has slowed; it has not been stopped. Clearly, Members’ constituents. we must agree that with all partner nations, because it is The first step is to ensure that the Jobcentre Plus a partnership project. rapid response service is available. It has already offered On E-Scan radar, the point is that the Ministry of access to Next Step one-to-one careers advice, which Defence and the industry are working on an assessment complements the support available from the company. I programme. Electronically scanned radar is on-the-edge know from dealing with previous cases how valuable technology. If we get this right, it will be Europe’s first that practical help can be to individuals. and only second generation scanned radar. Therefore, Secondly, and more broadly—this important question we need to think about how it works. The reason why was raised by the hon. Member for Preston and my we are not committing on long-term development is hon. Friend the Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies)—how that we need to see whether the assessment works in the do we ensure that our country does not lose those skills first place. In my book, that is a sensible pattern to for good? That consideration is why, back in January, follow. Clearly, we would not have taken that first step the Secretary of State and I established the talent retention had we not seen the opportunity. That is an important team. The intention is that Government and industry leap in capability for the Typhoon, and it could well ensure that we do not lose those key specialisms, whether mean that although there will be tighter pressure on the in BAE or elsewhere. The team matches the skilled domestic Typhoon programme, there will be opportunities employees who are facing redundancy to vacancies in for better exports in the long term. other companies. I can tell the House that so far, Let me now bring my remarks to a close. I want to 200 UK companies have registered. Those who have assure Members and their constituents that the Government signed up and are recruiting include Rolls-Royce, Siemens, are determined to take all the necessary action both to Nissan and Airbus. I understand that several thousand support individuals and to ensure that the UK’s defence jobs will be listed in the next month. and manufacturing base can prosper over the long Although I appreciate that taking one of those jobs is term. not a straightforward decision—it might involve commuting or relocation—that system is important, because it will Question put and agreed to. help us to avoid losing those key design, engineering and manufacturing jobs, which are important whether they are in Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle or in 6.29 pm Lancashire, which is the subject of this debate. House adjourned. 149WH 27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 150WH
that the report found a large degree of variation in Westminster Hall practice, and I will return to what I think that says about management and leadership later. Thursday 27 October 2011 On the nutrition outcome measure, 17 hospitals were failing to reach an acceptable standard. Patients in need of assistance at mealtimes were not getting help; food [MR CLIVE BETTS in the Chair] was placed out of reach; there was no monitoring of whether patients had eaten their meal and there were BACKBENCH BUSINESS constant interruptions during mealtimes. For example, a clinical round would suddenly start during lunchtime. NHS Care of Older People Age UK’s report, “Still Hungry to Be Heard”, found that 157,000 people left hospital malnourished in 2008, Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting and that the figure had increased to 185,000 in 2009. be now adjourned.—(Paul Burstow.) Astonishingly, 239 patients died from malnutrition in 2007. 2.30 pm New research published last month found that across Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): It is a pleasure to the NHS, 9 million meals are returned uneaten per year serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Mr Betts. at a cost of £22 million. One of the problems is whether I thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing we can serve three appetising meals of decent nutritional us to have the debate this afternoon, and I am grateful value for less than £5 per patient, which is what my own to colleagues on both sides of the divide for supporting local hospital budgets for. I would say that we cannot. it. I look forward to hearing the views of other people As I see it from the two reports, when the scale of the who have a great interest in the subject. problem is considered across the entire older population We are here because of troubling reports about the who are being cared for in our hospitals, it is not as care of older people in the NHS. I was prompted to great as is often reported by the media in the immediate confine our debate to the NHS by the report from the aftermath of yet another report. However, for the older Care Quality Commission two weeks ago, which studied patient on the end of the worst care, it amounts to 100 NHS hospitals. The report was by no means an cruelty and neglect by staff. isolated study; it came on the heels of the ombudsman’s report in February and Age UK’s “Care in Crisis” Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): My hon. Friend makes report in May. a very good case. On the key findings of the CQC report, which the media seem to report as a failure of That we have a worrying problem is beyond doubt, nursing when the bulk of them are really issues of care, but I hope to bring a balanced view to the debate. It is will she also cover the issue of the resources that appear important to note that even when reports give cause for to be going into hospital wards, particularly with the serious concern, there are significantly more examples increasing acuity and turnaround of patients, and nursing of good and acceptable care than there are of bad. and care staff to patient ratios, which appear to be on Indeed, the ombudsman’s report stated that the the edge in many cases? overwhelming majority of patients say they receive good care. I will return to the balanced view that I Margot James: I thank my hon. Friend for making a promised, but first I will outline the concerns raised by very good point. I will return to the resourcing issue. I the latest findings of the CQC. do not have statistics on the staff to patient ratio, but it The Secretary of State commissioned the CQC to is noticeable that it is much better in paediatric wards undertake a series of unannounced inspections in response than in wards with large numbers of older people. to the ombudsman’s report. The inspections focused on Perhaps we can learn from that. outcomes, interviews with patients and staff, and I was talking about cruelty and neglect. Staff are paid observation on the wards. Two outcomes were measured: to care in institutions that are for the most part monopoly respecting and involving people who use services, which public services; the patient has no choice but to be there. includes care, dignity and respect for privacy, and meeting In Age UK’s 2010 research, 21% of patients said they nutritional needs. Forty-five of the 100 hospitals met were not always treated with dignity and respect, and both standards in full; 35 met both standards but needed there has been no improvement in that figure since some improvement, and 20 were not even delivering 2002. The figure is fairly consistent with the CQC care that met minimum legal standards. Of those 20, findings and it seems to be consistent with other reports. Sandwell General hospital and the Alexandra hospital It leads me to think that the problem we must address is in Worcestershire—both quite near my own constituency twofold: first, the overall figure of one in five being —were found to be putting patients at unacceptable risk essentially ignored—or worse—in our hospitals is simply of harm. too high, and secondly—the worst aspect—nothing If we look in more detail, we see that 60 of the ever changes that figure. Despite all the reports and hospitals were found to be meeting a good standard in information, nothing actually changes that figure. respecting the dignity and privacy of patients on both Care is failing one in five of our older patients two or the wards observed by the CQC. Staff behaved in a way three times a year. The new research confirms that that respected patients; they were positive, sensitive and failure, but no effective action is taken to remedy it or to respectful; they involved patients in decision making reduce the problem. I hope that as a result of our and explained treatment options properly. Where there collective ongoing efforts, we will finally make a significant were problems on this measure in the other 40 hospitals impact on the problem. It is likely that one of the surveyed, not one of the hospitals was found to be reasons for the inaction that has persisted for a decade failing on both the wards observed. It is noteworthy or more has its roots in a wrong or partial diagnosis of 151WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 152WH
[Margot James] of care achieved, but surely she accepts that the situation is far better, and high levels of care more likely, when the causes of the problem, so I will turn to the various resources are adequate. causes that have been advanced by research and informed commentators on this state of affairs. Margot James: I agree that care is more likely to be The causes that I have read about can be grouped good when resources are adequate, but poor care has under the following headings: leadership, management, been observed on wards that the CQC regarded as well resourcing, training and what I loosely call societal. The resourced. I do not draw a neat and fast conclusion, and leadership of individual hospitals such as Stafford—to having worked in business for many years I accept that take the worst example—sets out daily through a series resourcing is important. It is difficult to generalise from of explicit and subliminal messaging what it is important the available research, but I take my hon. Friend’s point. for staff to deliver in that institution. At most, the focus On nurse training, the CQC found that half of hospitals from the top will resonate further down the line in only were ailing in the areas of privacy and dignity; staff had one or two areas. Staff know, either consciously or little training in matters of privacy, dignity, rehabilitation unconsciously, that if they deliver on one or two variables, and dementia. Training, and the lack thereof, is a symptom they will not be seriously picked up for partial or of the growing and unregulated use of health care non-delivery elsewhere. That is the same in any large assistants. In a report out today, the Royal College of organisation. Often, the overriding concern at the top in Nursing states that in some parts of the country, 40% of NHS hospitals is about meeting financial targets, just as staff on a ward are health care assistants. I will return to it was in Stafford. In other cases, rigidly applied clinical that point. outcomes might bear little relation to how a patient is treated by staff before and after their care or surgery. Another important issue is the general training of nurses. Consensus seems to suggest that although Project Leadership does not come only from the chief executive 2000 brought benefits to nursing status and career and key board members. I served on the board of an paths, the effect on care has been less positive. Earlier NHS trust that was answerable, in a mechanistic, this year, Camilla Cavendish, a journalist from The command-and-control way, to the Department of Health, Times, undertook extensive research across the country. which in turn was accountable to the Secretary of Her observations suggest that Project 2000, which moved State—I am going back 10 or 12 years. Political pressures training from hospitals to universities and gave it degree on a Secretary of State are principally financial, but status, has led to nurses spending too little time on they also concern global outcomes in politically sensitive wards during their training, and they are under-prepared areas such as cancer. The day-to-day treatment of patients to deal with patients when they graduate. Project 2000 is often delegated to a regulatory quango, but irrespective has also led to gaps on wards, which have been filled by of the party in power, the Secretary of State will survive health care assistants. Such assistants are supposed to the occasional embarrassment and discomfort caused be supervised by nurses, but although I have no evidence by yet another report. That explains the extraordinary either way, I wonder whether nurses have the training situation whereby the care problems at the James Paget for such supervision. University hospital in East Anglia were serious enough to warrant a warning notice from the Care Quality Patients often think that health care assistants are Commission, but nurse training at the same hospital nurses, and it is not always easy to distinguish the two was well rated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council. posts. Health care assistants, however, have almost no Although overall management and culture is set by training and perform non-medical tasks such as providing the board, the main divide between good and bad help with feeding and washing. I am sure there is a management depends on the effective deployment of degree of mission creep into areas that require some resources, the motivation and discipline of staff, and form of training, and I shall return to that point. the systems for gathering customer—or patient— Perhaps it is no wonder that many nurses feel that intelligence. The CQC noted that in some wards, levels certain aspects of caring are menial work. of under-resourcing made poor care more likely—the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives Andrew George: My hon. Friend suggests that nurses (Andrew George). Patients commented to the CQC see caring as menial, but that is not an observation I about how hard pressed the nurses seemed, and that would make. I had the opportunity to shadow nurses in was confirmed by comments about the report by nurses four wards, and they told me that they wished they had writing on blogs. Even allowing for a certain amount of, more time to perform a caring role in addition to their “They would say that wouldn’t they?”, some of the clinical duties. Such a role would fulfil the observational remarks seemed heartfelt and genuine. function that nurses are trained to perform in order to Interestingly, however, none of the hospitals where continually assess a patient and review their diagnosis. care was found to be poor were found wanting in all the That nurses believe themselves to be above a caring wards inspected. Unacceptable levels of care were seen function is not a conclusion that I would draw, and I on well-resourced wards, and excellent care was found believe that it besmirches the professional standing and on wards that were understaffed. That indicates that the pride felt by a lot of nurses. issue has more to do with ward leadership and the personalities and values of nurses in leadership roles Margot James: My hon. Friend makes some good than with the overall budget at the disposal of hospitals points. Camilla Cavendish visited hospitals across the where problems were encountered. country as part of her research and spoke to many patients and nurses, and the view I have mentioned was Andrew George: I am not sure that I draw the same expressed not only by patients but by nurses. I am sure conclusion as my hon. Friend. She suggests that resourcing that such cases are in a minority, and I certainly do not is not particularly relevant when considering the quality intend to besmirch the good reputation of the majority 153WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 154WH of nurses. However, the research leads me to believe that Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): The hon. a minority of nurses either do not have time for care or Lady’s final point before she reached her conclusions feel that although care is not beneath them, it should be and recommendations made some quite clear criticisms carried out by staff at a different level. That is a legitimate of the values in society. Will she add to that list how she view and has been expressed in a variety of nursing would like the values in society to improve? journals and other forms of media by retired nurses who have visited hospitals. My hon. Friend should not Margot James: I welcome that intervention because dismiss that element of concern, and I emphatically do whenever one is preparing for a debate such as this, one not wish to besmirch the reputation of our many good is conscious of how much more there is to say than one nurses. However, when we read in the CQC report has time for. I was not intending to draw too many about the problems engendered by the very poor care conclusions on what needs to change in society. I was that some patients receive, we realise that we cannot concentrating on what needs to change in the domain afford to dismiss any of the conclusions reached by that we are discussing, but perhaps the hon. Lady people who have done a lot of research. would care to call for a debate on the topic to which she I want to move on to some societal observations. The has referred. I am sure that we could fill an afternoon ever-increasing use of scientific and technological advances with such a discussion and I should be delighted to take brings many benefits, but it also creates a work environment part. that requires nurses to concentrate on aspects of treatment and care that isolate them from the patients whom they Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): One matter that are serving. The workplace in general outside hospitals needs to be thought about carefully in this debate if not is becoming more mobile. People connect with one elsewhere is, of course, the integration of the NHS and another far more via devices of various sorts. That social care, because that will help the process along and presents a risk to the caring professions that needs deal with many of the issues to which my hon. Friend is managing. referring. Then there is the issue of the pool of talent from which nurses and other caregivers are drawn. This summer Margot James: I thank my hon. Friend. That is a very saw an explosion of violence, avarice and selfishness on good point. The integration of health and social care our streets on a major scale. Although work is ongoing should, with the weight of joint commissioning behind to identify the cause of that phenomenon, it is clear to it, make quite a difference. My speech has concentrated many of us that the fault lines in our social fabric are on care in hospitals, but I hope that other hon. Members every bit as wide and deep as suggested by the research will bring out issues to do with care at home and other undertaken by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of aspects of what the NHS delivers. State for Work and Pensions, before he came into I shall go through my list of recommendations briefly. government. These incidents affect all walks of life. On nutrition, the Age UK report, “Still Hungry to Be Much more could be said on that point, but I do not Heard”, advocated that ward staff needed to be “food- intend to elaborate on it now. For the purposes of this aware”. Training should include nutrition and the debate, the implication is that nurses are as much a importance of assistance with meals when needed. I reflection of modern Britain, with its drawbacks—a agree with these recommendations. Older people should society in which a significant minority seem to be more be assessed for signs of malnourishment on admission, aware of their rights than their responsibilities—as well during their stay and on discharge. Hospitals should as its strengths. introduce protected mealtimes. Where they are using a Likewise, patients and their families reflect society. red tray system, which involves a red tray being given to Melanie Reid, a columnist for The Times, spent a year patients who require assistance with eating, staff should in a spinal injuries unit following a tragic accident. She be trained in how to use it. It sounds as though that wrote an excellent piece on the nursing debate three system works well where it is used properly. weeks ago. She said: “If you want to change nursing, you have to change society. Alison McGovern: I thank the hon. Lady for her You also have to change the patients. Today’s sick are…not generosity in giving way to me again. Does she question, deferential sufferers in silence. They and their relatives can be as I do, the red tray system, in that if nurses and nursing aggressive and unreasonable. staff understand the needs of a person, surely they Everyone’s a professional complainer. During my spell in should understand what their nutritional assistance needs hospital, I saw some patients whom, had I been forced to cope with their constant demands, I would have smothered at dawn. are without the use of a red tray? Surely they should Instead, the staff treated these people with civility and good know patients well enough already. Is that not a question humour.” that we should ask? I shall turn now to some conclusions and recommendations. I shall conclude with what I think Margot James: I thank the hon. Lady for her excellent needs to change and I hope that the list of areas point. In an ideal world, I would strongly agree with to which I refer will provide a platform for further her. I agree that what she has suggested is to be desired. consideration by the Government. I note that the The trouble with relying on that is that the throughput Government are already making positive changes in of patients through wards these days is quite fast, the some of the areas, and that is welcome. My priorities rostering system for nurses is very complicated and the for change would centre on the importance of food and continuity of care is certainly not as good as it used to nutrition in hospitals and the standards in that respect; be. Many nurses work intensively for a week and then the accountability of boards and chief executives for have a substantial amount of time not working. Therefore the care of patients; resource allocation; the inspection the personal relationship, which is so desirable, has been regime; hospital complaints procedures; and nurse and compromised to the extent that we can no longer rely health care assistant training. on it to ensure that patients’ nutritional needs are met. 155WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 156WH
[Margot James] avoid opening the hospital to legal challenge, which is one of the motivators to the heavy-handed system we That is why I believe that the red tray system is useful. have at present. However, I am very concerned that people could easily We must be able to distinguish between the training think, “Oh well, that sorts the problem out,” and not needs of nurses and health care assistants. feel that they need to relate to the patient in the way that the hon. Lady suggests. Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): I come now to accountability. I realise that this is not It seems that the nursing profession lacks some something that the Government can mandate, but chief accountability. What does my hon. Friend think about executives should come on to the wards regularly—every the idea of bringing back matrons, who are visible on day that they are in work. Nurses used to be accountable the ward and who manage nurses? to a matron, who would turn up unannounced to check on standards. We must replicate that discipline again, Margot James: I thank my hon. Friend for that and I recommend starting at the top. intervention, and I am attracted to that good idea. Managers need to ensure that budgets are used wisely Somebody must be in charge of the ward—a nurse to support front-line staff and that front-line staff are manager or a matron. Although that happens in the not distracted by other, non-patient-care “priorities”. I best wards, it is not universal. looked at nurse blogs when I was preparing my speech We must look at the training of health care assistants, and I sympathised with one nurse who said that nurses who increasingly perform sensitive, caring roles; the are system cannot be left as informal as it is at present. “at the beck and call of so many departments who wish to give There must be minimum standards and training. We work away and have no qualms in ‘getting the nurses to do it’. know that there is pressure to register health care assistants. Loan stores, training, HR, to mention a few who seem to have I am not sure that that is necessary, but training and forgotten that their role is to support us—not the other way minimum standards certainly are. around.” I challenge where Project 2000 has got us. Nurse I have sympathy with busy nurses who are pulled in all training could remain at degree level but follow a more directions. apprenticeship-based model. I ask the Minister to meet the Nursing and Midwifery Council to discuss how the Andrew George: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for nursing degree can learn from the apprenticeship model giving way to me a fourth time, which shows how so that far more time is spent on the ward, alongside the patient she is with me. Quite apart from falling into the academic study that has brought such benefits. trap of conflating care with nursing in some of her There is much more to be said, and I look forward to remarks—she did make the point about needing to hearing from other hon. Members and learning from ensure that there is a clear distinction between care their contributions. I thank the many organisations that assistants and nurses—does she not also agree that in have been in touch with me and helped with my research terms of the management on wards, a lot of nursing since I secured the debate last week. time is taken away from the patient interface as a result of the enormous amount of bureaucracy and paperwork Several hon. Members rose— required and the pressure that many nurses come under from bed managers, who appear to overrule them when Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): Order. There are slightly it comes to determining when a patient should be under two hours before the winding-up speeches start, discharged or admitted to a ward? so if Members take no more than about 10 minutes they should all be called. Margot James: I thank my hon. Friend for his observation, and I certainly agreed with the first point 3.4 pm he made. I shall conclude in a minute as I am aware that many Members wish to speak. Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): It The CQC should be resourced to ensure that its is a pleasure to speak in the debate when you, Mr Betts, inspections include weekend visits. All the observations are in the Chair. it makes in its recently published report were based on The full title of our debate is “NHS Care of Older visits it paid during the week—for cost reasons, I imagine— People”, and the fact that that distinction is made but I was delighted to hear the Secretary of State shows that there is an issue in the care of older people announce yesterday that there will be more inspections. by the NHS that needs to be discussed. It is right, I hope, however, that the Minister will discuss with the therefore, that we are debating this matter today and I CQC the possibility of visits being paid at weekends, congratulate the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Margot when—I hear—care can sometimes deteriorate rapidly. James) on securing this debate and on the way in which Some complaints are very serious, and I am not she opened it. commenting on serious medical negligence, but with A number of reports made to Parliament this year on many complaints the system comes over as a sledgehammer the failings of NHS care of older people have shocked to crack a nut. A patient or family member should be us. The health service ombudsman, Ann Abraham, able to make an informal, non-legalistic and reasonable reported in February on a complaint and receive a sensitive hearing from a senior “picture of NHS provision that is failing to respond to the needs member of staff, rather than be instantly given a form of older people with care and compassion, and to provide even that starts a three-week process of churning and often the most basic standards of care”. ends in Members’ surgeries. I ask the Minister to discuss Her report told the stories of 10 people over 65—partners, with the Justice Department how we enable that but parents and grandparents: individuals who put up with 157WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 158WH difficult circumstances and did not like to make a fuss, At this point, Mr D’s daughter, a constituent, came compared with those who, as we have heard, were to me for help. She desperately needed an answer and an difficult—who wanted to be cared for properly and, at explanation of what had happened. As her MP, I felt the end of their lives, to die peacefully and with dignity. the hospital needed to admit its errors and take measures Ann Abraham tells us that what the people involved to ensure that what happened to that patient did not have in common is their experience of unnecessary happen to anyone else. Regrettably, in the months that pain, indignity and distress while in the care of the NHS. followed, the hospital seemed unable to do that. In fact, The second of the 10 stories is that of Mr D, and it the dreadful failures in care and communication were particularly focuses on the last five days of his life. He made worse by the inadequate way the hospital dealt was admitted four weeks earlier with a suspected heart with my constituent’s complaints, as I reported to the attack but after tests was diagnosed with advanced House in that earlier debate. stomach cancer. He was to be discharged from hospital After raising her complaint with the hospital, my on the Tuesday after the August bank holiday weekend, constituent found that responses from it were not sent but it was brought forward to the Saturday. The summary in keeping with agreed time scales and often took three of the story in the report is harrowing. The discharge of, or four weeks longer than it had promised. Copies of we must remember, a man with only a few days to live responses from the hospital were never sent to me, and I was a shambles. The report goes on: had to chase every single one of those responses, which “On the day of discharge…the family arrived to find Mr D in a were often inadequate. That was the worst thing for this distressed condition behind drawn curtains in a chair. He had bereaved family, because the delayed answers and been waiting for several hours to go home. He was in pain, prevarication from those investigating the complaints desperate to go to the toilet and unable to ask for help because he was so dehydrated he could not speak properly or swallow. His left the family feeling more angry and upset. Their daughter told us that ‘his tongue was like a piece of dried leather’. anger was originally due to what they perceived as The emergency button had been placed beyond his reach. His delays in diagnosing Mr D’s terminal condition and the drip had been removed and the bag of fluid had fallen and had poor treatment and care he received, but the whole leaked all over the floor making his feet wet. When the family thing became worse because of the way the case was asked for help to put Mr D on the commode he had ‘squealed…’ handled. with pain. An ambulance booked to take him home in the morning had not arrived and at 2.30 pm the family decided to The complaints the ombudsman’s report details are take him home in their car. This was achieved with great difficulty very serious, and I am talking about just one. In making and discomfort for Mr D. their complaint, the family know that nothing can bring On arriving home, his family found that Mr D had not been back their loved one—their father—or change the way given enough painkillers for the bank holiday weekend. He had he was treated, and families often tell us that. However, been given two bottles of Oramorph (morphine in an oral solution), the family desperately want explanations and an apology, insufficient for three days, and not suitable as by this time he was and they desperately want to ensure that no other unable to swallow. Consequently, the family spent much of the weekend driving round trying to get prescription forms signed, parent is treated the same way. and permission for District Nurses to administer morphine in injectable form. Mr D died, three days after he was discharged, on Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): The hon. the following Tuesday. His daughter described her extreme distress Lady is making an incredibly moving speech. I pay and the stress of trying to get his medication, fearing that he great homage to the work Ann Abraham has done in might die before she returned home. She also lost time she had her role as ombudsman, and yet another fantastic report hoped to spend with him over those last few days.” came out last week about the complaints procedure. The summary of this case sounds terrible, but the detail Does the hon. Lady agree with the recommendation in was much worse. The family were my constituents and I that report that there should be far greater partnership supported the family’s complaint after meeting Mr D’s working with organisations such as the Care Quality daughter. Every aspect of this case showed the NHS in Commission? Does she agree that the Government could a very negative light. take steps in response to the findings of the consultation Let me give a summary of the detail in Mr D’s case, they have just held on the information revolution? Such as reported to the ombudsman. Mr D was not helped to measures would really help improve the complaints use a commode and fainted, soiling himself in the procedure, which would drive up standards of care. process. He was not properly cleaned and his clothes were not changed until the family requested that the following day. The ward was dirty, including a squashed Barbara Keeley: Yes, indeed. We discussed those issues insect on the wall throughout his stay and nail clippings in relation to the NHS Redress Bill. The difficulty we under the bed. He was left without access to drinking have with the most extreme cases, as I am describing in water or a clean glass. His pain was not controlled and relation to my constituent, is that the medical establishment medication was delayed, sometimes by up to one and a seems to close up when facing such complaints, and half hours. Pressure sores were allowed to develop. No people become fearful that they will be sued and have check was made on his nutrition. His medical condition— problems in their careers. We must remove that way of the fact that his illness was terminal and that he had handling such awful cases, because it is just not acceptable. only a few days left—was never properly explained to Like every MP, I understand that the Government his family. He was told of his diagnosis on an open cannot manage every consultant and every ward to ward, overheard by other patients. make sure such things do not happen. However, they do I spoke about this case in a debate about the NHS happen, and there are many more cases than the 10 the Redress Bill, and I agree with the comments that the ombudsman reports on. We must bring about a change hon. Member for Stourbridge made about accountability. of culture to allow for an acknowledgement of the fact Where was the accountability in this hospital? Where that there must be better redress than there was in this was the ward manager or matron figure who was letting case when a whole system of care and treatment fails a these things happen? patient and his family, and when standards of professional 159WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 160WH
[Barbara Keeley] constituents. However, a swift apology would have helped, and we must have a system whereby an apology can be practice and communication fall. The MP and the made swiftly, because that never happens. family should not have to battle the complaints system The ombudsman talked about the need to listen to and eventually take their case to the ombudsman because older people and to take account of feedback from only the ombudsman can ever make a hospital do what families. One of my conclusions from having looked at it should have done in the first place. this case is that it took many months—in fact, years—to The family were looking for an acknowledgement, an get to the point where the family were anything like explanation and an apology, and they wanted to make happy with the response to their complaint, and that sure that these things did not happen again. It is very made things worse. reasonable that they should expect that. I felt it was important to outline a case I had personal experience of, and there has not been time to touch on Sarah Newton: The hon. Lady is making an incredibly much else, but there are many things that could improve important point about how complaints are handled in this situation. In the briefing for the debate, I was the NHS. In highly effective organisations, complaints heartened to see a note from the Women’s Royal Voluntary are considered to be gold dust, because they are part of Service describing ward support services it is setting up how those organisations drive up standards and improve for older people, which is a wonderful idea. It wants to services. That benefits not only the patients, but staff. It improve the experience of older people by using trained is so demotivating if staff working on poorly managed volunteers to support them and their families and carers. wards, or in the NHS more generally, raise complaints, That would include training in dementia, which could even through protected disclosures, and nothing happens. be important. That can cause them stress and great personal harm. Hospital support for carers is also important. The Barbara Keeley: Indeed. I do not distance myself in Princess Royal Trust for Carers has a carers centre in any way from the excellent point the hon. Member for Salford, which the Minister knows, because he has met Stourbridge made in opening the debate: this is about some of its staff. The centre has developed strong leadership, management, training and accountability, relationships with primary and secondary health care all of which failed in the case I have outlined. and works closely with Salford Royal hospital, which does excellent work—it is not the hospital I was talking Andrew George: The hon. Lady is making a strong about earlier; that was a different hospital. The centre case. On the point about whistleblowing, or protected supports carers in the hospital and on important issues disclosure, her own research may have shown that when around discharge. How could the discharge I described a nurse, for example, suggests to senior management have happened if people had been there—even volunteers that there is a resource problem on a ward, that does and people from a carers centre—to help the family? not necessarily enhance their likelihood of improving Such initiatives can help. their job prospects in the hospital. Often, they are told, Developing awareness of family carers on hospital “Other members of staff seem to manage, so why don’t wards and giving them support might help to head off, you?” Does the hon. Lady agree that we need to look at or somehow deal with, dreadful situations such as the how whistleblowing can be done safely? one I have described. NHS care is important, but it is important that we understand that it does not end when Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): Order. A lot of people a person leaves hospital, particularly if they are terminal clearly want to speak, and I do not want to stop or patients going home to die. discourage interventions, but if they are made could I hope the debate contributes to the improvement of they be brief and to the point so that we can keep things NHS care for older people. As a Member of Parliament, flowing? I would never want to see another case like the one I have described. Barbara Keeley: It is clear that what I said about culture must apply right through to things such as 3.19 pm whistleblowing. It is a sad aspect of this case that none of the people involved with Mr D’s care or with dealing Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): It is a with the complaint could even rescue the situation by pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I handling the complaint reasonably. congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge I understand, and we must be clear, that this case (Margot James) on securing the debate through the represents the NHS at its worst, but it did happen, and Backbench Business Committee, and all hon. Members it happened to my constituent. I have never had a case who supported the call for it—as I did. as bad as this one again, but I have had others that have I do not pretend to be a health care professional, even given me cause for concern, and I am currently pursuing though I use the title “Dr”. Nor do I profess expertise in cases with similarly bad aspects on behalf of constituents. that area. However, the care given to those older people Sometimes, however, there are cases where everything who need it—I tend to use the word “elderly”, although goes wrong and all the problems I have mentioned come it may not be politically correct—is important. Usually, together. the start and end of life is when we use NHS care the MPs’ interventions and the intervention of the most, and those people should be given the best care ombudsman can remedy the injustice of such inadequate possible. We should make sure failures are dealt with, treatment to some extent, but we must accept that it is and we should speak up about them in Parliament. not possible even for such interventions, much though Given the time constraints, I had thought of spending our constituents are grateful for them, to overcome the a little time on talking about the terminally ill. Hon. distress and anguish experienced by families such as my Members may know that I have introduced a ten-minute 161WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 162WH rule Bill on the provision of hydration and nutrition. thank you and well done to the director of nursing and We have also had Westminster Hall debates about palliative all the medical teams at the hospital for the changes care in eastern England, and I recognise the valuable they have made. work that is done. However, it is right to focus on the In contrast, James Paget hospital, in the constituency Care Quality Commission report and individual hospitals, of my hon. Friend the Member for Great Yarmouth so that our constituents know we are speaking up for (Brandon Lewis), has failed a second inspection. The them, and so that their voice is heard in Parliament. second report showed improvements, but not consistent My hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge went improvements. There were still minor concerns in several into great detail about the CQC report, and the hon. areas, and continued moderate concerns on meeting Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) nutritional needs and the management of medicines. went into detail on a particular case. The view of The second report is complimentary about staff and representatives of the Royal College of Nursing, given training, and, as my hon. Friend the Member for in informal discussions, about evidence given or sentiments Stourbridge has already mentioned, the hospital was expressed in submissions to the Francis inquiry, was cited in a Nursing and Midwifery Council report as telling. There was concern about leadership and about having good training levels. To reinforce that point, the how people would be treated if they stood up and spoke CQC suggested that patients’ needs were generally met. up for patients—that they would be ignored, or, worse, At times it was possible that not all the staff were demoted. I am sure that that shocked the nursing profession available or deployed in the most effective way, but and other people, and I recognise that attempts are generally patients had the staffing appropriate to their being made to deal with that, so I do not mean to be needs. The third inspection has taken place. Its outcome condemnatory. is not yet formally known, and the hospital has not received the draft report, but I have not heard positive My constituency has the 15th highest proportion of vibes so far. pensioners. Some 55% of my constituents are over 55, so the issue we are discussing is important there. The As to my interaction with the leadership, I must say constituency also covers two primary care trusts—NHS at the outset that I recognise that it was limited. My Suffolk, and Great Yarmouth and Waveney—and we hon. Friends the Members for Waveney (Peter Aldous) have three hospitals that provide care. They are the and for Great Yarmouth have taken a much greater Norfolk and Norwich university hospital, Ipswich hospital role, because a relatively small number of patients from and James Paget university hospital. I am afraid that my constituency go to the hospital in question. After two of those were on the list of failing hospitals and, the first inspection, however, I was assured that the understandably, local residents were very upset. That is failures were just a blip, and that things were already reflected in the number of complaints made to me, or under way. Doubt was cast on the quality of the inspection copied to me, about people’s experiences when they are carried out by the CQC—that was said to me by the trying to get care. chairman of the hospital trust. I did not accept that, because those CQC inspections are intended to be a As to Ipswich, after the first failure, I and my hon. snapshot and to take a view. Frankly, if one patient Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North experiences bad care, that is an automatic failure. I Ipswich (Dr Poulter) met the chairman and director of think that hon. Members would recognise that. nursing. I was impressed straight away that the director of nursing recognised absolutely that there had been I was reassured, however, by the expectation of changes, failings. That recognition and acceptance of failings which were under way; but, as I have mentioned, the was important to me. The suggestion was made at the second inspection continued to find failings in dealings time that not all the staff accepted, initially, that there with older patients. I did not meet the hospital manager were failings, and that the feedback was met with an and chairman after the inspection, but my colleagues element of rejection. However, every member of staff did and I was not reassured by the report of that quickly recognised that things had to change. meeting. Yet again it seemed that doubt was being cast on the validity of the CQC inspection by the chairman An action plan of changes and improvements to local of the trust—though not, I understand, by the chief ward leadership was set out, and fresh training was executive. provided. A high focus was put on that, including We three MPs have together agreed a course of action additional support for patients with dementia. The to press the hospital on its improvements for our hospital was inspected on a second occasion and, although constituents, and it has responded. As I said, a third the report has not yet been formally issued, I understand inspection has been held, and I am highly concerned that it will pass—it should be congratulated on that—that that a third failure will be reported. Monitor has now a marked improvement was noted and that patient issued a red governance rating, which I believe is automatic, satisfaction was much higher. but I understand that it has also had conversations with the leadership. I have received copies of constituents’ Neil Carmichael: It is worth distinguishing between complaints, and seen a whistle-blowing letter from GPs acute and community hospitals. That would inform the from the consortium Health East. The letter says: debate, because, obviously, chronic and non-chronic “As a group of concerned GPs we have been forced to pursue conditions are different. It would be helpful to know this whistle blowing option, because we are concerned that our which hospitals are which, and whether that will help us new GP consortium ‘Health East’ may fail to be successful due to to think about the subject. the failings of our main, acute provider the James Paget University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust. Health East will be depending on the Trust to provide the Dr Coffey: Ipswich hospital is a district general hospital, acute care for most of our patients and we have lost confidence in if that helps my hon. Friend. It provides acute care, and the ability of its leadership to correct its current failings. Please is not just focused on community care. I want to say act quickly before we have yet another Mid Staffs on our hands.” 163WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 164WH
[Dr Thérèse Coffey] One son reported how his mother begged for water after an intravenous drip was removed. Elderly patients It ends: in a Cardiff hospital day room were given tambourines “We apologise once again for having to take this whistle to attract nurses’ attention. Again and again, we hear blowing option, but we need you to put pressure on appropriate stories of patients not being treated with sufficient care, organisations to put the issues right before our patients suffer.” dignity and respect. Having said that, I should point out I do not suggest that someone going into the hospital that there were also many examples of good practice. will automatically suffer poor care, but that is the My own father has received good care in the Royal reaction of GPs who are expected to work with patients Gwent and Caerphilly District Miners hospital in recent to ensure that they receive the best care. years. In the circumstances, it is my role to press the leadership Nevertheless, given the blizzard of bad news on treatment of the James Paget hospital on constituents’ behalf. In for older people, the NHS Confederation succinctly particular, the chairman of the hospital trust should says: consider his position. I appreciate that the financial risk “We are well aware of the problems of poor care. What is less at the hospital is low, and that that may reflect good clear is why this has not always been tackled and what needs to financial governance, but patient care is key. The chairman happen to effect change.” has provided useful leadership, but—after two failed People have talked about a culture of indifference or, care inspections and with the possibility of a third—it is worse, of neglect, and ask what has happened to common time for him to step aside and allow new leadership to compassion and kindness. It will take time to turn care come forward. around, but change must come. Recommendations in the report “Dignified Care?” include four key points: I will apologise to the chairman of the trust, because empowering ward managers to run their wards in a way although I sent him a communication about what I that enhances dignity and respect, equipping staff to would say in this debate, I could not speak to him support people with dementia, prioritising continence personally. I should also say that I do not make my care and looking further at whether there are sufficient suggestion on behalf of my hon. Friends the Members numbers of the right kind of staff to care properly for for Waveney—who is in his place—and for Great older people in Wales. Yarmouth. I do not make such a call lightly, but there is We must ensure that we make things better this time. concern that patients may be reluctant to go to that It is unacceptable that hospitals and care homes can hospital. Perhaps that is not a widely-experienced feeling, flout their legal responsibilities to patients and residents but often people worry about going to a particular and just be told to do better. hospital because of the perception of concern. We In Wales, the older people’s commissioner has reminded cannot afford that, and must not stand quietly by health providers that she has the legal powers to effect without expressing a view. necessary change. Those powers must be enforced, key I have spoken for 10 minutes and understand that staff must be seen to be accountable and, most of all, others want to speak. There are other issues, such as patients should be heard. The Minister for Health and community care and confidence in that. My hon. Friend Social Services acted swiftly to increase spot inspections the Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich and in Wales and I am pleased that the Secretary of State for others, including myself, have pressed the case about Health has followed that course in England. ambulance services and response times. Some of our Strong professional leadership at ward level is of the constituents live more than an hour from the nearest utmost importance in securing change. We need the hospital, so concerns about failure to respond within right skills mix in our hospitals and care homes to the eight-minute target are appropriate. I am meeting deliver the care that elderly people want and need. The Ministers another time to discuss that matter. involvement and feedback of patients and relatives is I do not make the request that I made about the crucial, but we should not have to rely on relatives and James Paget hospital in Parliament lightly, but I believe friends to provide basic care, even if it were practical. that it is necessary for the safety, well-being and protection As someone who has spent some time working in the of patients in Suffolk Coastal. voluntary sector, I know that it can be a sensitive and sensible provider. The WRVS has informed us about 3.30 pm some of its voluntary services on wards, which include befriending patients and help with feeding. I understand Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): I congratulate that it is keen to expand those services, which is something the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) on that I support. securing this debate and on her thoughtful contribution. Residential care is in some flux. One of the largest Other hon. Members have also shown great insight in UK providers, Southern Cross, has collapsed. After a their representations. year of worry and anxiety for elderly people in its Like others, I was sickened by the reports that we homes, we must now seize the opportunity to ensure received from the Care Quality Commission earlier this that companies in the sector have a sound business month about the treatment of elderly people in the model. They must invest for the long term and deliver NHS in England. Unfortunately, we are now receiving a high quality care for our elderly. catalogue of such reports. In March, the older people’s As a member of the Public Accounts Committee, I commissioner in Wales told us that the treatment of recently talked to Department of Health officials about some older people in Welsh hospitals is “shamefully the future of the social care market, which has changed inadequate”. The commissioner found instances of people dramatically in the past 20 years from a local market not being helped to the toilet, poor communication with single owners of individual homes to consolidation and inadequate attention to patients’ need for food and of ownership. Southern Cross owned about 9% of the drink. UK market, and 30% of that was in the north-east. 165WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 166WH
I am not saying that all individually owned homes are 3.38 pm perfect. Operation Jasmine is an ongoing investigation George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): It is a pleasure in Gwent, looking at the maltreatment of elderly residents to speak under your chairmanship this afternoon, Mr in care homes in the late 1990s and early 2000s. The Betts. I will try to keep my comments brief because I investigation is also looking at some small homes. The know that others wish to speak. first prosecution of an owner and a manager is expected soon. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) on securing the debate and The position of Southern Cross, which was the subject on raising such important points. It is a tribute to her of a number of takeovers and a massive profit grab by and the importance of the issue that so many colleagues the venture capitalists Blackstone, is perhaps summed have stayed behind on a day when the House is otherwise up by the reported admission of a former executive, empty. who said: This is an important subject at national and local “It really did seem like we were in a land flowing with milk and level. Mid Norfolk is a rural constituency with a very honey.” high ratio of retired and elderly folk. The subject is also The money men were working on a substantial projected important to the families and friends of patients and, increase in the elderly population. This week, for example, most important, to the patients themselves, who often the Office for National Statistics predicted that the have no voice or people to speak up for them. My hon. current number of people over state pension age will Friend spoke eloquently of the problems that need to be rise from 12.2 million to 15.6 million by 2035, which is addressed, including those of nutrition, courtesy, privacy an increase of 28%. The money men thought that with a and hygiene. I was struck by one or two of the statistics growing elderly population and the subsequent rise in that she mentioned, particularly the 9 million meals left local authority funding, a rosy future with a rosy profit uneaten and the shocking number of deaths from was guaranteed. The Department of Health’s director malnutrition. Although one must not overstate the problem of care services said: or get it out of proportion, which the media sometimes love to do, for those who are affected it is, as the Care “Arguably, the people who invested took this to be an infrastructure Quality Commission report makes clear, nothing less project, like toll roads, rather than a care business.” than cruelty and neglect. As Nigel Edwards, the chief As someone once said, “If it looks too good to be true, executive of the NHS Confederation, has said: it usually is.” “It is of course important to put these 10 examples”— Southern Cross ran into the buffers, as the squeeze on from the CQC report— local authority spending saw referrals and fees go down “into perspective. The NHS sees over a million people every and occupancy rates drop to unsustainable levels. Given 36 hours and the overwhelming majority say they receive good that the budget squeeze is likely to continue for some care. But I fully appreciate that this will be of little comfort to time, the stability of the care sector is of considerable patients and their families when they have been on the receiving concern. Yes, it is a business, but it is one that looks end of poor care.” after frail and vulnerable people, so low cost and low At the risk of testing colleagues’ patience, it is worth quality is not an option, nor is it right for such people to highlighting some of the examples given in the CQC live with the constant fear that they may have to move report and other reports, because we have had the home; some certainty must be part of the care package. privilege of reading them and other people may not I have said before that the Department of Health was been able to do so. By including those examples in the slow to act on Southern Cross. I wish I was confident report of this debate, perhaps we can help to highlight that Four Seasons, which is taking over a large number them. I was particularly struck by the following examples of former Southern Cross homes and which has more from the recent CQC report: than £1 billion in debts, has a sound business model to “The patient constantly called out for help and rattled the deliver long-term care. It is unlikely to be the only bedrail as staff passed by…25 minutes passed before this patient operator under pressure as all private providers are received attention.” dependent on revenue income from cash-strapped public “We saw a staff member taking a female patient to the toilet. authorities. Of course, as the PAC was told, the Department The patient’s clothing was above their knees and exposed their of Health does not commission services; such decisions underwear.” are made by local authorities. None the less, the Department “Two members of staff who were assisting people with their of Health sets the framework for social care providers meals at the time were having a conversation between themselves.” and that must be robust. Although in some ways the third is perhaps the least obvious example of poor care, it demonstrates what is The Department is now consulting on what measures often the source of patients’ frustration about lack of it may need to ensure the effective oversight of the personal care when they need it. social care market. I hope that we will have more comprehensive measures in place early next year. The Some other case studies were highlighted in the report challenge for us now is to ensure that wherever our of the health service ombudsman. I do not want to go elderly are treated or looked after or helped to look through them all, but I shall mention two. The first was after themselves, quality is embedded in the service, and referred to as “Mrs H’s story”: dignity and respect are accorded without question. Together “When Mrs H was transferred from Heart of England NHS with our high-tech surgery and sophisticated drugs, we Foundation Trust to a care home, she arrived bruised, soaked in must ensure that we feed patients properly and give urine, dishevelled and wearing someone else’s clothes.” them the time, company and comfort they need, so that The second case study was “Mr C’s story”: they can cope with the chronic ill-health, dependency, “Mr C died two hours after undergoing heart surgery at or terminal illness that will at some point come to us all. Oxford Radcliffe Hospitals NHS Trust.” 167WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 168WH
[George Freeman] I congratulate the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) on securing this vital debate and on asking many Well, that happens, but the case study continued: important questions about quality of care and patients’ “His family was not told that his condition had worsened and experiences of hospital. In addition, I welcome the staff turned off his life support, despite his family’s request to contributions that have been made by other Members, wait while they made a phone call.” which have been very important in fleshing out those It is easy to highlight emotive examples that shock, but issues. it is important that people’s attention is drawn to the I will make quite a brief contribution to the debate. specific nature of patients’ experiences, because it is in Hon. Members have rightly recognised that, although the details that we will begin to find the solution to the there are some serious concerns about the care of older problems. people within the NHS, there is also good practice that Two other issues that I have come across in my time we can build on. So I will limit my remarks to giving as a parliamentary candidate and MP merit raising. one example of good practice that I hope will be of The first is the difference between care and medicine. I interest to hon. Members. speak as someone who has come to the House after a Earlier this year, I visited Queen’s medical centre, 15-year career in biomedicine, so I have some experience which is one campus of Nottingham University Hospitals of the extraordinary advances that have been taking NHS Trust. For those who are not familiar with it, it is place in genetics, biomedical innovation, diagnostics a major acute and teaching hospital in Nottingham. devices and pharmaceuticals, but of course care and While I was there, I visited ward B47, which is an acute medicine are not the same thing. I have some sympathy medical ward for patients with dementia and delirium. with the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member Ward B47 has received a national health and social care for Stourbridge earlier about the occasional tendency in award for mental health and well-being, and it was our modern health service to neglect, amid the busyness highly commended for putting patients and the public and professionalism involved in often extremely high-tech first. clinical care, some of the older skills of traditional While visiting ward B47, I met Professor Rowan nursing. I do not think that anybody has suggested that Harwood, who is a consultant in health care of the it is as straightforward as, “Modern nurses don’t care”, elderly, Caron Swinscoe, who is the clinical lead for but given the specialisation and the clinical elevation of dementia, the ward’s matron, Ali Cargill, and Louise nursing we might need to consider whether we have left Howe, who is an advanced practitioner in occupational behind something rather more old-fashioned and therapy, specialising in mental health services, and who traditional. In many ways, one cannot turn care into a spent 10 years working in mental health before she specialism; care needs to be at the heart of everything came to work on the ward. that is done in the NHS. Queen’s medical centre set up the medical mental The second issue is the integration of health and care. health unit as part of a collaborative research project In my county of Norfolk—I dare say it is true of other between Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust colleagues’ counties too—we have an ageing population, and the university of Nottingham, which was funded by and more and more of our constituents experience the National Institute of Health Research and the health and care needs that mean they often spend short Department of Health. The unit at Queen’s built on spells in hospital before returning to the care system. earlier work in 2005 by the Royal College of Psychiatry, That creates a number of challenging issues around the which had shown that patients with dementia and delirium transition from health to care, and often back again, formed a large proportion of in-patients in acute general particularly relating to patient records and continuity of hospitals and that they had much worse outcomes than treatment. I know that the Government are looking at those in-patients with less complex problems. The unit the integration of health and social care, and the was specifically designed to start to address that situation. commissioning reforms may provide some useful opportunities in that regard and for developing and Ward B47 is a 28-bed ward, with three registered accelerating best practice. mental health nurses, a specialist mental health occupational therapist and an activities co-ordinator. Those staff I will end with the observation that this topic is not members are working together with an existing one that lends itself to the creation of extreme differences multidisciplinary team, which includes an occupational between parties. It is important that today we have had therapist with experience in discharge planning. That a really good debate on cross-party terms and I suspect new team was set up in January 2010. In addition, the there would be wider interest in the House in taking the environment of the ward was changed and all staff were debate forward. I look forward to the Minister’s comments, given additional training in person-centred care. and to reading those that I cannot hear myself as I may have to leave before the end of the debate, for which I In this debate, hon. Members have quite rightly spoken apologise. about the Care Quality Commission’s findings in relation to quality of care and about what are, in some cases, the extremely distressing experiences of their own constituents 3.45 pm and families. Even where care is good—I am pleased to say that, in most cases, it is good—hospital admission Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): It is a can be a distressing and frightening experience. For pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, older people with dementia, hospitalisation can be Mr Betts. Like the hon. Member for Mid Norfolk even more difficult and confusing. Families often report (George Freeman), I must apologise that I have to leave concerns and anxiety about the effect that a stay in at 4.30 pm, so I may not hear all the contributions that hospital has on their loved ones, even where care are made. is good. 169WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 170WH
My first impression on entering ward B47 was that it positive, the findings look good, and the team is looking was different from other wards that I have seen. It was a to develop the ward further, for example by providing a calm but stimulating environment, and I will say a little more comprehensive programme of activities, including more about the physical aspects of the ward. The most in the evenings when patients can become particularly obvious difference was that there was a central activities distressed. It is also considering breakfast and afternoon room where a number of patients were taking part in tea groups to encourage patients to maintain their activities supported by the co-ordinator and other staff. domestic skills, and the provision of sensory stimulation Even in the short period that I was there, I could see for patients who find interaction difficult and relaxation that the activity that was under way—patients were for those who find the environment over-stimulating. playing a game that involved throwing beanbags on the I appreciate that my contribution has focused on one floor—encouraged physical activity. Obviously, people’s ward in one hospital and that there are many issues to abilities were different, but the staff encouraged those address, but I hope that where there is good practice in who could participate to do so. The activity prompted the care of older people in an NHS hospital it can be conversation, interaction and engagement, preventing used effectively to improve quality of care and patient people from becoming isolated and allowing other staff outcomes across the wider health service and that we to spend time with the more unwell patients who required have the resources to enable that to happen. more attention—a subject that other Members have touched on. The ward’s staff explained how and why they were 3.53 pm doing things differently. In making my remarks, I draw Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): It is a pleasure to specifically on an article by Louise Howe, the occupational serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I congratulate therapist, published in OTnews in May 2011. In it she my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Margot states that the staff had observed that many patients James) on securing this worthwhile and important debate. lost their ability to function independently during a stay in hospital, and she gives a typical example. An elderly The subject is of particular interest to me because the woman who had been living independently was admitted James Paget hospital in Gorleston serves my constituency to hospital and, although forgetful, was able to carry as well as those of my hon. Friends the Members for out daily tasks such as preparing a meal. After a month, Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis) and for Suffolk Coastal the occupational therapy team carried out an assessment (Dr Coffey). As we have heard, the hospital has received and found that she was having difficulties recognising two unfavourable Care Quality Commission reports and using everyday items. The team was concerned that and a red Monitor warning, and a third report is when she was discharged she would struggle to live awaited. Although improvements have been made since safely in her own home—to cook and be around hot the previous visits, there are still areas to address because objects—and that prompted Louise and the OT service elderly patients are not being given appropriate support to come up with an approach to maintain patients’ with eating and drinking, and people in need of intravenous abilities while in hospital. Essentially, they would assess fluids are not getting infusions. I do not propose to go patients’ level of function on admission—how able they through the reports in detail, but I will highlight a few were to wash, dress and self-care—and develop an concerns that we need to address, not only in the James individual care plan that all staff would work to, to help Paget but across the country. patients to maintain activities and skills. Patients would My first point specifically regards the James Paget. then be reviewed on discharge to see whether the actions The hospital’s main asset is its loyal and hard-working had been successful. staff, including doctors, nurses, care assistants and the The team also started to change the environment to volunteers provided by the very good league of friends. make it more enabling for patients with dementia, with There is a very strong team spirit, and it is vital that the clearer signage on the ward, large clear clocks—people staff, who want to provide the best quality care, are like to be able to assess how long things take—redecoration given the resources, training, support and leadership to make the individual bays look unique so that patients they need. could distinguish their own beds, and memory boxes [ANNETTE BROOKE in the Chair] above beds to display personal items and make the My second point is about funding. A particular issue environment more welcoming. The ward also commissioned in an area such as ours—we have heard from my hon. photographs, showing staff and patients talking, completing Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal—is that Suffolk self-care tasks and participating in group activities, and and Norfolk is a popular area to retire to, and that puts they were displayed around the ward to provide comfort pressure on the hospital. In Yarmouth and Lowestoft, and reassurance. Although that might sound like a there are pockets of deprivation, and the area is a small thing, staff and patients and their families reported popular holiday destination. Four or five years ago, that it was a welcome and positive move. when my late father was in the James Paget, he was The occupational therapy team has strengthened links probably one of only two local people on a ward of with community mental health services to ensure continuity eight. That is an indication of the challenges that the of care after discharge, and has built links with bodies hospital faces, and I hope that its funding generally such as the Alzheimer’s Society, which provides a weekly takes that into account. advice and support service on the ward. The unit’s work Hospitals need not only to tackle excessive bureaucracy is being researched by the university, which is looking at but to look at areas of staff shortages. If the NHS is to a number of measures—with a properly assessed control survive, it must tackle social care, because otherwise we group—to compare mental state, delirium, pre and will face the prospect of more and more older people in post-admission function, quality of life and carer feedback. hospital beds, creating a logjam and bringing the system The response from staff and visitors has so far been to a grinding halt. It may well be that we should divert 171WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 172WH
[Peter Aldous] 4.2 pm funds from the acute hospital sector and into adult Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): It is a pleasure to social care to cope with the rising costs of health care serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Brooke. I congratulate and an ageing population; it is important to make the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) on savings wherever possible. securing this important and timely debate. I beg your indulgence as I tell a personal story about my mum’s I do not like saying this, but there is a sense of déjà vu recent journey through the national health service. As here. This debate is very welcome and we are all approaching many colleagues will know, my mum had a bad stroke the matter in the right way, but I sense that we have been in June this year, and we have had a bumpy ride over the here before. The CQC findings are similar in many past four months. I want to make it clear at the outset respects to those in the Secretary of State’s 1998 report, that the vast majority of care workers, nurses, doctors “Not because they are old”, and there are parallels with and other staff with whom we have come into contact the Patients Association study of two years ago. It is as have shown my mum a great deal of loving care, but she if each new revelation creates a sense of outrage, and seems to have been let down by system failures. then nothing happens. We all have an obligation to Mum is 86, but before her stroke, she was still working, ensure that this time is different. teaching three yoga classes a week, doing reflexology, driving her car and leading a totally full life. As hon. There is perhaps an institutional ageism in our society Members can imagine, it has been devastating not only to the extent that at times we do not understand the for her but for all of us. After the stroke, she was first needs of the elderly, and are too condescending and admitted to Luton and Dunstable hospital’s accident dismissive. That needs to be replaced with a sense of and emergency department. At about 4 in the morning, kindness and compassion, with patients’ dignity respected. she was medically ready to be transferred to a ward and We should treat patients as people, not processes; perhaps was taken up to the stroke ward. However, when we got in the past, in a drive to meet targets, patients were seen there, we were told that there was no bed. We were not as procedures to be processed. There is perhaps a problem too fazed at that point—it was the middle of the night—so of patient care getting sidelined by targets, by finances we accepted it, and she was transferred back to the and bureaucracy. The delivery of care has perhaps been emergency admissions ward. At the time, the medics regarded as a task to be completed, but it is a vocation, were not sure that Mum would survive, so it was a not a unit of work. More training and staff development difficult time for us. is needed, with patient care at the centre of things. By the following afternoon, we were getting agitated— On leadership and support, we must create a different [Interruption.] Excuse me, Mrs Brooke; you can tell culture in which good care flourishes. Leaders and how it made me feel. Anybody’s journey through the managers in hospitals should work closely with staff in national health services in such circumstances is difficult, proper liaison. It should be a two-way relationship. and ours has not been made better by what has happened Staff must receive the right support, and management to us. We were agitated by the following afternoon. must ensure that budgets are spent wisely. Mum was still on the emergency ward, which was very busy and noisy. Eventually, we started the journey back Over the years, a poor understanding of malnutrition to the stroke ward, to be greeted at the desk again with has crept up. There is a lack of awareness of the “Sorry, there’s no room.” At that point, I started to importance of good nutrition. Malnutrition costs the become six foot tall, thinking, “My mother is going NHS £13 billion per annum. Inadequate food is a to come into your ward.” Fortunately, a sister behind problem, as are inflexible regimes and a failure to meet the desk treated us nicely, saying, “This woman will be basic physical care needs, which causes patients to become admitted on to our ward.” lonely and bored. Similar problems exist in some care homes; lack of attention to detail is a problem. Hospital Some time later, concerned about her breathing, I food can at times be unappetising and unpalatable. We called for a nurse. The nurse came in and said, “Well, must examine food budgets closely. Are they too low? you know she’s do not resuscitate, don’t you?” I said, Should they be higher? “Yes, but I’m concerned about her breathing.” The nurse said, “Oh no, she’s fine. She’s actually in a deep We need a fundamental look at the issue. The CQC sleep and things are good, but oh dear, I’ve not hung up does valuable work, but it cannot go back all the time, the drip.” I spent the next half-hour holding up the drip so we must consider giving patients an advocate who so that Mum would get saline and holding Mum’s hand can fight their corner. Local HealthWatch organisations until the nurse eventually returned with the drip stand. that carry out unannounced inspections have a role to That is just the start of a chapter of system failure. It play. Publication of malnutrition rates should also be was a great frustration going to the desk and seeing all mandatory, so that people can discover problems earlier those people behind it, but being totally ignored. I did and notify where they might be occurring. not know whether they were physiotherapists or doctors. Finally, I will mention an issue that is not the topic of When I said, “Mum needs the commode,” or “Please this debate but is an elephant in the room: social care can you,” I was ignored. That was not just our experience for our elderly in their last days. We need to integrate but the experience of everybody on the ward. the health service and social care. The Dilnot report presents an opportunity to address a time bomb that Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): Sorry, but I has been ticking for a long time and that successive cannot believe I heard that. Can my hon. Friend confirm Governments have not grappled with. I hope that, in that the charge nurse said to the patient’s daughter that the spring, the Government will face up to reality and the patient was do not resuscitate? Please God, I heard publish a positive response to what Andrew Dilnot said. that wrong. 173WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 174WH
Julie Hilling: No, indeed. That was what was said to After two and a half weeks, mum was transferred to me when I questioned her breathing. We knew that Biggleswade rehabilitation hospital. Again, the staff Mum was gravely ill and that they would not make were very loving, but they also let us down. They loved extraordinary efforts to save her at that point, but the mum, and we felt that that was partly because mum is a way that it was done did not make it the best thing that proud, undemanding and polite woman. She was in happened. Biggleswade for eight weeks and, again, we did not dare As I was saying, the great frustration was being to not have somebody present to visit for a substantial ignored. One day I went to the desk, saw the doctor who part of the day. was doing the round and said, “We really need to speak Mum had pneumonia, along with the stroke, and to you.” The doctor said, “I’m very busy at the moment, after a couple of weeks at Biggleswade, she did not seem but I promise I will speak to you before I go home.” very well to us. We had to tell the staff that, despite the I went back to the desk a few hours later to discover fact that she was getting close personal care at this time, that the doctor had gone home. We only got results by mum was not well. They took her temperature and, yes, complaining. It was a difficult period. she had a chest infection. Treatment was good, but why Mum was on thickened fluids because she had difficulty was it us—she was in hospital—who had to raise the swallowing. Each day when we went in, on her trolley alarm? Mum was losing weight—she ended up losing would be a glass of ordinary, unthickened water. However, 3 stone during this period. She was supposed to have the good thing was that every day it was out of reach, so protein drinks, but the drink only ever turned up on one fortunately she could not choke on it. Then they complained day. Mum came to absolutely hate meal times at that she was not drinking enough. Biggleswade. Food was a mystery. We would fill in the menu form, The second major incident was equally frightening but each day it would be a lottery what turned up. Mum for us. Mum had bumpers put on the side of her bed, to was on puréed food, but three times in one week, the prevent her paralysed leg from getting caught in the lady in the next bed got no evening meal. Each time, bars. One night the bumpers were not put on and her they said, “Well, you didn’t fill in the form.” Her family leg got stuck. She, of course, did not realise this and it said, “Yes, we did,” and they said, “Oh well, we’ll give was only in the morning when she said that she was in you sandwiches.” Fortunately, that happened to Mum extreme pain that it became apparent that this was why. only once. Thank heavens my sister was there, because Why were the bumpers not put on? Moreover, if it was a they said, “We’ll give her a sandwich.” My sister said, mistake, why did not somebody on their night tour “Look on the chart over her bed—puréed food only.” know that the bumpers were not there? It is an 18-bed Had she not been there, goodness knows what would hospital, not an enormous one with hundreds of beds. have happened. Why, indeed, did the nurse in charge not check on the One day, Mum choked. They had got her out of bed, patients throughout the night? When we went in, mum’s so she was sitting next to the bed, and she was choking. leg was hugely swollen. The sole of her foot was purple. She was unable to ring her buzzer at that point, so We are not medics—we did not know what was the another patient rang it, trying to get somebody to assist. matter—but we thought that something was wrong, so Nobody came for about 10 minutes. The other patient’s we raised the alarm again. young husband then had to assist my mother, mopping I want to tell this story because I think it is typical of her up and getting her sorted out so that she was no other people’s experiences. Mum needed close personal longer choking. care, so why did the carers, who were putting her in a For a few days, there was a lady in the bed next to hoist and changing her clothes and pad, not raise Mum’s who sat on a pad that spoke every time she concerns about her leg being three times the size of the stood up. Clearly, she wandered, and they needed her to other one? The unit at Biggleswade is nurse-led, so a GP stay in place, but the message on the pad said, “Dear was called. He thought that she had a deep vein thrombosis Mr Such-a-body, please sit down again and somebody and tried to get a scan the next day. He did not think will come to you.” Of course it was no trigger for that that she should wait 36 hours, which was the time we woman, as that was not her name. The name had not would have had to wait for the appointment on offer. been changed. The lady opposite Mum could eat, but He thought that he had succeeded in getting a scan for was not eating a great deal. She was not helped to eat or her the next day, but, sadly, he had not, so we had a given prompts such as “Please have a bit more”; somebody desperate day of trying to get mum scanned. We asked would just come say, “You need to drink a bit more,” whether there was any other hospital that she could go instead of helping her. to, and—remember that I am a good socialist, Labour MP—I even asked, “Can I pay?” I am grateful to mum’s I asked my assistant to send a card from my right MP, the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward (Andrew Selous), who also helped and pulled out all the Miliband) and the Chief Whip. I nearly asked for a card stops to try to get mum a scan, but we only managed to from the Prime Minister. I thought that maybe if they get her in the next day. knew that I was an MP—I have never in my life told as many people that I am an MP as I did during that I asked to see the matron to see whether anything else period—they just might give my mum a bit of extra care could be done. Although I remained at the hospital all or show more concern. I even took in a box of House of day, I was told that they had seen a posh car drive away Commons chocolates, as if to say, “Look after this lady, from the hospital and had therefore decided that I had please,” but that did not make a great deal of difference. left—I am not too sure why they thought I drove a posh The staff did care, but the system was not in place. We car—so the matron had left the site without seeing me. felt that we had to make sure that, every day, somebody The medics were not too concerned, because they said stayed for the full length of visiting hours. that they had started treatment—a treatment that we 175WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 176WH
[Julie Hilling] 4.17 pm were later told should not have been started before mum Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): It is a had had a brain scan, because she had had a hemorrhagic pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Brooke. stroke. I am particularly grateful that you have allowed me to speak. I missed the beginning of the debate because my I also discovered that there are only four slots for GP watch broke. It was immensely frustrating, so I appreciate referral scans at Bedford hospital. The hospital serves you making an exception to the rule and allowing me to many thousands of patients, so why are there only four speak. slots for that huge population? We went to the hospital We have heard so many excellent speeches this afternoon and another chapter of problems started. I will not bore and I agree with the contributions of all my colleagues. everyone with the full details, but suffice it to say that It is so refreshing to be part of this debate, which there was a lack of communication, which resulted in provides a contrast with yesterday’s debate on the NHS mum missing her slot to be scanned, and a full day of a in the main Chamber. We are working together to woman, frightened and in pain, sitting around in a highlight considerable concerns. I am sure that, considering hospital. the great passion that has been in evidence today, we can make a difference. The overwhelming feeling was that everybody blamed everybody else. It was said that the day ward at Biggleswade Other colleagues want to speak, so I will touch on should have sent her on a trolley. Somebody else should only two areas that could be improved in the NHS. If always have done something, but very few people said, they were improved, it could make a real difference in “I will do something.” Mum was diagnosed with a DVT driving up the standard of care for elderly people. The from toes to groin and was in the ambulance about to first relates to improvements to the complaints process, go back to Biggleswade while I was still in the hospital and the second to a particular training need for people, demanding answers from the doctors and asking questions. whether they be doctors or clinicians, who come from Fortunately, the consultant appeared at that point—I overseas to work in the health service. am not sure whether he turned up or was asked to On the complaints procedure, highly effective come—and said that, because of the medication that organisations appreciate that every complaint is an mum was on, she should stay in and they should not opportunity to learn and improve. Such organisations send her home. That was the turning point in mum’s have virtuous circles of continuous improvement, from journey—good care and good treatment in Bedford complaint through to monitoring the improvements hospital. She started to eat. that they agree to make, to make sure that improvements result from every complaint that is investigated. After two and a half weeks at Luton and Dunstable hospital, eight weeks at Biggleswade and one week at I have read with interest the recently published report Bedford hospital, mum went into respite care in Swiss of the parliamentary and health service ombudsman, Cottage care home in her home town. What a difference. Ann Abraham, “Listening and Learning”. It is a review She is eating well, has started to put on weight and is of NHS complaints handled in England from 2010 to starting to walk. She is making amazing progress and 2011. It is a hard-hitting and informative read. Ann we hope that she will go home soon. says: “In last year’s report…I concluded that the NHS needed to There has been only one bad incident in the care ‘listen harder and learn more’ from complaints. The volume and home. It asked a GP to visit and the one who was on types of complaints we have received in the last twelve months duty—it was not her GP—refused to come, because he reveal that progress towards achieving this across the NHS in did not know her case, even though all the information England is patchy and slow. had been sent to the GP. He referred her to Stoke This report shows how, at a local level, the NHS is still not Mandeville hospital for another scan—another day of dealing adequately with the most straightforward matters.” pain and distress for this woman. They said, “She’s got We have heard that today. She goes on to say that two a DVT,” but we knew that. That seems to be another particular themes emerged. First, the most prevalent failure. reason for complaints was a lack of effective communication, as every speaker today has highlighted. I am grateful for the opportunity to tell my mum’s Poor communication can have a serious, direct impact story, because, sadly, it seems typical of that of so many on patients’ care and can unnecessarily exclude their older people. It seems that if people have something families from a full awareness of the patient’s condition that is wrong and treatable, they get good service from or prognosis. Secondly, in an increasing number of the NHS, but if they are older and just need care, the cases, a failure to resolve disagreements between patients results are not so good. There also seems to be little and their GPs has led to their removal from the GP list. consideration given to who that older person is or was; Her report cites a particularly harrowing example of they just become “an old person.” Yes, she is 86, but my somebody—a very vulnerable and elderly person—being mum was a working 86-year-old, teaching yoga and excluded from the GP list in the last few days of their apparently fitter than me—she was not just an old lady. life. A GP in Biggleswade told me that my mother is More positively, Ann Abraham notes that there have lucky to have a family who have been fighting for her. been improvements in the attitudes of NHS senior It should not be that way. Every older person deserves management when tackling the issue of complaints to be treated with respect and care. I am grateful for handling and that there has been more partnership this opportunity and I hope that, through all of our working with other parts of the NHS, such as the Care efforts, a real difference will be made to the treatment of Quality Commission. However, clearly, much more effort older people. needs to be put into showing NHS staff how complaints 177WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 178WH can drive up standards of patient care. The majority of that needs to be addressed when employing people in doctors, nurses and other clinicians in the NHS in the NHS. I am aware that many colleagues want to Cornwall, and I am sure around the country, get job contribute, so I shall conclude my comments there. satisfaction from delivering high-quality care to their patients. I have listened to nurses who suffer when they work in wards that are poorly led and monitored, and 4.24 pm where bad practice is ignored. Worse still, when they try Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): I congratulate to tackle the situation by reporting their concerns and the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) on even making protected disclosures, nothing happens. securing the debate and thank the Backbench Business In remote and peripheral parts of the country, such Committee for timetabling it. There are few issues that as Cornwall, there is only one acute hospital, so staff mean more to me or make me more angry than the poor are very reluctant to complain because there is nowhere treatment of older people, especially by our NHS. Therefore, else for them to go. That is stressful for staff and, it is highly important that we focus on that today. obviously, far from good news for the patients on their I shall begin where other hon. Members might not wards and under their care. I am pleased and encouraged have had time to go—by questioning our values. The by the Care Quality Commission’s work in Cornwall. hon. Member for Stourbridge listed societal problems When all parts of the NHS and other care providers are as being one of the causes of indignity in hospitals and, registered, so long as they have the necessary resource, when I intervened to ask her about that, she said that they will be highly effective in driving up standards of she did not have enough time to go into the subject. I treatment and care. I would like the Care Quality hope I can assist her by taking us on that journey. Commission to have a far greater role in the NHS I am afraid that I shall start by disagreeing with the complaints process—for example, it should be given hon. Lady. I find it hard to believe that there is a lack of copies of all complaints, all protected disclosures and moral value or preference in society. Part of the problem all death reviews in hospitals. That information is vital is that those values are not made explicit often enough. to helping the CQC to assess risks and manage We have talked much about dignity today. That word is improvements. often used, but rarely explored. I question and doubt Where a complaint has led to an improvement being the point made by the hon. Member for Truro and agreed, the CQC should have the opportunity to visit Falmouth (Sarah Newton) about older people being and spot-check to ensure it has been implemented. If treated differently in other countries. If that is the case, the CQC were more involved in the complaints process, it is incumbent upon us as politicians to make our the quality of care and services, as well as job satisfaction values absolutely clear. In many ways, the national for NHS staff, would be improved. The poor quality of health service is, for Britain, an expression of our moral care an elderly person might have experienced, either at choices and preferences. Whether or not we talk about home or in residential care, should also be dealt with by the NHS in those terms, that is what it is. complaints processes that involve the CQC. Let us begin by asking what we mean by “dignity.” It A more public communication of complaints data means inherently respecting the other person because of will also help to drive up standards of care and will give their humanity. In practice, that means demonstrating patients more important data upon which to make a they are listened to, cared for and thought of, no matter choice. I am pleased that, from this month, the Department who they are or what their personal circumstances are. of Health has committed to publish complaints data by Let me quote from the CQC report to give an example hospital, and that foundation trusts will also shortly be of what I mean and why it is so important that we make required to provide information on complaints. Like that absolutely explicit. In the report’s overview by Ann Abraham, I hope that, following the Government’s Dame Jo Williams, she mentioned that they found cases consultation “An Information Revolution”, a framework where they believed that staff stripped patients of their for making that information available will be published. dignity. She says: It is important to have standardised indicators and “People were spoken over, and not spoken to…left without call measures for both complaints and lessons learned, so bells, ignored for hours on end, or not given assistance to do the that patients and staff can compare like with like. I basics of life.” hope that the Minister might be able to comment on When we talk about dignity, that is what we really that today. mean. I find it hard to believe that we live in a Britain The second point is about staff who come into the where most people would walk past, look the other way NHS from overseas and who have been trained overseas. or not consider the needs of somebody who is extremely Much has been reported in the media recently about the vulnerable and stripped of the basic necessities of life. poor language skills of some of the doctors, nurses, The vast majority of people in our country would clinicians and care workers who come into the NHS, consider that situation to be utterly intolerable. and the problems that that causes. That is an important The question is: what is going on in the health service issue but the attitude of such staff, especially towards that leads us to see cases in our surgeries and examples older people, is as significant. among our families where people are bereft of their Although I appreciate that the training of doctors is dignity? Given that we set such high moral value by the not the responsibility of the Department of Health, it appropriate respect given to people because of their could be part of the commissioning of services. Guidelines inherent dignity, what is going on in the health service could be given to commissioners not only on training, that allows such a situation to occur? I accept other but on ensuring that people coming from overseas had hon. Members’ points about the level of frequency and effective training on how to treat people with respect the commitment of staff by and large, and I was also and dignity. The value assigned to elderly people is most taken by the remarks of my hon. Friend the different in different cultures around the world, and Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood), 179WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 180WH
[Alison McGovern] know good quality when we see it. If the model of staffing for the dignified and respectful care of people is who is no longer in her place, about the best practice right, then that will drive up the quality of experience demonstrated to her. Given that we know what the right they receive. Leaving aside whether we have targets, answer is, we need to consider what happens when there quality of experience can definitely be monitored. There is a failure. are some difficulties relating to monitoring older people, not least people who die in hospital. It can be very Dr Coffey: I strongly endorse what the hon. Lady is difficult to ask for feedback about the death of a loved saying. What is even more extraordinary is how there one, but we need to find a way of asking. A good death are such different experiences within a single hospital. is at the heart of what it means to be a dignified person. That is why local leadership is absolutely critical to I encourage all hospitals to think carefully about how getting this right. they ask for feedback from the relatives of a patient who has died. Even in the case of an older person with Alison McGovern: I thank the hon. Lady, who spoke dementia, how do we get feedback on how the NHS has so well and so bravely earlier, for her intervention. I will treated them? come on to describe the differences within hospitals—a point at the heart of the debate. As politicians, we need to back nursing staff and doctors. At the beginning of my speech, I tried to be Last year, the Wirral University Teaching Hospital very clear about the values that we espouse and I hope Trust experienced some of the worst staff survey results that they are shared across the Chamber. Those values in England. They were awful. The percentage of people give people absolute faith about what is expected. We who would recommend our local hospital to a member can be clearer about the standards of care that we of their family was disturbingly low. I know I speak for expect. I have concerns about systems, such as the red other hon. Members in the area when I say that we are tray one, which rely on a tick-box culture, rather than extremely concerned about this. The trust has a plan of saying, “Here is the standard that we expect people to action to try and put this right and there are many live up to and it is your responsibility to do so”. How examples of the best quality of care being given to my people in different wards meet those standards would constituents. However, some wards have been very poor. be different, but they must meet them. What we have observed locally relates exactly to the point raised by the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal. I would set the following test for the NHS. I believe in Some wards are very good and some are extremely the NHS not merely through custom and practice, but poor, and the CQC report also found that. Some of the as an article of my political faith. It is a fundamental places of most concern also had very good practice, so expression of our values that everybody should be this is a problem. looked after if, through no fault of their own, they become unwell. Everybody should be taken care of. We ought to ask the following questions about staff That means that if one person is not taken care of in the in the NHS, and I think that they should ask the same NHS—whether they are related to us, or nothing to do questions of themselves. The first question relates to the with us—in the way that we would expect for a member point that I started with: do they have the right values? of our family, then that is not good enough. We should Do they make the right moral choices? Do they have the articulate that value. I hope—and know, in my case—that right preferences? By and large, I think our answer local leaders of hospitals share the belief that we should would be yes. I do not believe that people in this care for people in the NHS as though they were members country somehow just do not care—I think that that is of our family and give them the dignity to which they wrong. The second question is: are NHS staff empowered have an absolute moral right. We need to articulate to make choices in line with those values—the basic those values and then make people empowered and right to dignity and sense of humanity that we want accountable to living up to them in the NHS. them to? Are they empowered? Finally, in line with the points that have just been made, are they accountable if 4.36 pm that does not happen? That is a crucial point. Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab): It is a pleasure to The Front Line Care report is an important report serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Brooke. I thank written under the previous Government about the future the Backbench Business Committee for allowing us to of nursing. There is, perhaps, a missed opportunity. It have the debate. In particular, I thank the hon. Member covers, in detail, many of the questions that we have for Stourbridge (Margot James) for securing it. I also about nursing care. My mother was a nurse. Her line on want to thank all other hon. Members who have spoken nursing is that a nurse’s job is whatever the patient and given passionate, heartfelt and thoughtful contributions. needs. That coheres entirely with both the Front Line Hon. Members from all parts of the Chamber have Care report and the CQC report, which points out the spoken with one voice. It is completely unacceptable for problem alluded to by other hon. Members. Dame Jo any older person to receive the appalling standard of Williams states that care seems to be: care that we have read about in the CQC report and in “focusing on the unit of work, rather than the person who needs the ombudsman’s report. We have seen that appalling to be looked after.” standard of care in our own constituencies. My hon. We need staff who are empowered to provide person-led Friend the Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) has care that looks at the needs of each person, and delivers seen it in her own family. Although we may not have for them what they need in the health service. seen as poor a standard of care as she did, I am sure There is, of course, the question of targets. The that many of us have been concerned about the care Government have moved towards dropping some of the given to our own families. I would like to consider some waiting list targets that were in place under the previous potential causes of those poor standards of care, and Government. Is this the kind of thing we can have talk about possible measures to tackle them and to targets for? I am not sure. However, I know that we ensure that every service matches the best standards. 181WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 182WH
It is important to look closely and carefully at this that issue. I had hoped for more progress on that under question and to avoid thinking that one issue, one the previous Government. It would be interesting to group of staff or one set of problems is to blame. While hear from the Minister the current Government’s views there are some straightforward, practical steps that on regulation. There are all sorts of issues around time could be taken immediately, there will not be one simple and cost—for employers and individual staff—but it is quick fix that will solve the whole issue. There are something we need to look at. deeper and more complex issues that are far harder to Culture and leadership are woolly words, but in practice address. I will talk about five areas: staff levels and we know when we see good culture and good leadership. resources; staff training, which many hon. Members My hon. Friend the Member for Wirral South (Alison have spoken about; culture and leadership; the regulation McGovern) made this point. What is it on the ward that of the NHS; and deeper issues that are very difficult to matters above all? Yes, it is about how long it takes to be address. treated, whether operations are a success or whether Several hon. Members, particularly at the beginning medicine is taken on time, but it is also, crucially, about of the debate, raised the issue of staffing levels and the experience of the patient, whether they and their resources. If we talk to individual members of staff or families feel that they have been given enough information organisations such as the Royal College of Nursing, and the time to think about it. When the information is they say that the issue is of concern. Staff to patient given can be important. We have all been in situations ratios were referred to by the hon. Member for Stourbridge where the doctor has said something quite shocking and the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George). and we were not prepared for it. What matters is the Peter Carter, who runs the RCN, gave me a stark simple things such as whether the patients are covered example. The figures are rough and not perfect, but he up when they go to the toilet and cleaned effectively said that paediatric and children’s wards have one nurse afterwards. for every four patients, while in the wards that specialise There are places where the patient’s experience is at in care for older people the ratio is around one nurse for the top of the agenda, not only of the individual ward every 10 patients. Elderly, dependent patients have different but of the hospital as a whole. Simple and straightforward needs from sick young children, but in many ways they surveys, developed by organisations such as the Picker are just as challenging, so we need to look at that, Institute, can help individual organisations and services particularly because, with an ageing population and to get that across. some of the problems in social care, more sick elderly Another thing about culture is a bit more tricky and patients are ending up in hospitals, many with not only concerns how we build a team and being open to dementia but two or three other health problems. That questioning. In a team, staff should value each other’s co-morbidity issue will be important as we see hospitals different experiences. That might not be the case with with big financial challenges, which we will over the some of the old-fashioned hierarchies in a hospital—doctor, next couple of years. nurse, care assistant—where they do not dare question On staff training, we often hear commentators or one another. Teams need to value each other’s skills and senior people in the NHS, frequently medics, who question experiences but also be open to questioning. whether moving nursing towards being a degree profession has been an entirely good thing. It is vital to get the Alison McGovern: One of the best examples of quality right balance between academic and practical elements of care that I have seen recently was in one of my local in nurse training. Degree courses have been around for hospitals, when I was shown around a ward in part by many years—40, I think. As many hon. Members have the cleaner, because she was deemed to be so important said, we see differences between and even within hospitals to the good functioning of that ward. that are using nurses with the same qualifications, often from the same universities, and some have their problems Liz Kendall: That is absolutely right. It is not that and some do not. We need to look at the balance, but we everyone has the same skills and experience, but that all should not think that that is the entire cause of the those different skills and experience are important. In a problem. A lot is down to the culture created in wards, proper culture of learning, mistakes can be admitted, which I will say more about in a moment. because we all want to learn from them to ensure that Concerns have been expressed by many hon. Members they do not happen again. We need to see not only the today, the media and NHS staff about health care different health professionals as part of the team, but assistants. Health care assistants in wards provide more users and families too. Peter Carter of the RCN raised and more of the care, some of which is intimate, such as the issue of families being involved, and it was sad that feeding older people or helping those with continence all over the papers he was reported as saying, “Come in problems, but it is a positive development. As other and care—it is up to you to care for members of your hon. Members have said, our staff have the right values, own family.” What we need, though, is for families to be and that is partly about the training they get. I think the part of the process, particularly if their relatives are hon. Member for Stourbridge said that health care elderly patients suffering from dementia. Family members assistants do not get any training and are not regulated, know them best. We might not be able to hear what they but they do, or should, get training from their employer, are saying but their family will know how they react, the trusts. Such training can be patchy, and we need to and whether they like or dislike something. look at that. Such a culture and such leadership need to be in In 2003, I called for the regulation of health care evidence not only on the ward, but on the board—a assistants—as many people did, way before me—in a point made by the hon. Member for Stourbridge. As the project I did called “The Future Healthcare Worker.” If boss, the board should want to know what is happening nurses are to take on some of the more clinical roles, on the ward and its members should be getting the and health care assistants more care, we need to look at surveys and patient feedback. As with Members of 183WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 184WH
[Liz Kendall] There is a big challenge for medicine. We have talked a lot about nurses, but not about doctors’ mentality. Parliament, hopefully, what they will most want to They are trained to cure. There is a big challenge for know is what individual constituents think of them. doctors as well as nurses as our health needs change. In Accountability is vital, from the top down. Also, in too many places, doctors are still at the top of the particular for old people who might not have family hierarchy. They are the ones who help to determine the members nearby, the idea of volunteers who can be shape of care. It is important to look at their changing advocates and part of the process is important. role, too. On regulation and the Care Quality Commission, I I want to talk about how we as a society treat older am concerned about the issue. More could be done people. I hope we will have a proper debate about that immediately. The CQC has an important role to play, one day. I want to say two things. First—I think other but I want to be clear that responsibility for the quality hon. Members have mentioned this—we are not used to of services lies with the providers and not with the seeing people get so old. It is quite a recent thing to see regulator. However, people want to have confidence people living for such a long time, often in pain, and it is that, if the CQC says that somewhere is okay, it is okay very painful for families, particularly if they see people and, if it not okay, that the CQC will go back and whom they love suffering with dementia. Society shuts ensure that it is sorted out. I am concerned that, almost older people away too often. We say, “You’re just getting six months after the initial inspections, the CQC has not old” or we prefer that they are not seen and not heard. been back to a third of the hospitals it said in its report In other countries, it is not like that. Older people feel were failing to respect and involve older people, and it more part of the community and they are perhaps more has not been back to two thirds of the hospitals that visible than in this country. I can give a simple example. were failing to meet nutritional needs. I have written to Care homes in Spain do not have opening hours—they the CQC, which has not written back, but it said on the are simply open—and people see them as part of the phone that it had received written reassurances. That is community. not good enough. It should be going back to those The issue is about how our services cope with an hospitals. I am keen to hear from the Minister whether ageing population and how we treat older people. If he could take action to ensure that we know which someone is very old and slowly dying, including from hospitals have not had a follow-up and what the timetable something such as dementia, which is awful to see, we for action is. need to find a new way to deal with that. There are clear national guidelines for people who work for public bodies such as the council or the NHS. 4.54 pm There are guidelines on raising the alert and referring a person immediately—within one day—if it is thought The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul that they are vulnerable or at risk of neglect or abuse. I Burstow): I start by thanking the Backbench Business have asked the CQC whether it referred people, or Committee for scheduling the debate and the hon. whether it required the hospitals to do that. If someone Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) for securing has seen children at risk of neglect or abuse, action it. We have heard personal testimonies and powerful would need to be taken or they could face the legal speeches today. There have been thoughtful contributions consequences. I am concerned about that matter. and I want to make sure that the debate is seen by I have spoken longer than I intended. I want to finish colleagues at the CQC. The relevant national clinical by addressing what I call “deeper issues”: our model of directors, the chief nursing officer and the chief executive health care, the nature of medicine and the way we as a of the NHS ought to read the report of the debate society treat older people. When our NHS was established, because it encapsulates in a very powerful way the our population had very different health problems. challenges, as well as the opportunities to move on and People needed episodes of care for acute conditions make a difference for the people we are here to serve. that could be treated and increasingly cured. Our health I want to address the problem and then describe services were based on the model of individual district some of the things that are happening and discuss what general hospitals. However, we have health problems more needs to happen. Whether in the NHS or in our now that are related to people living longer with long-term wider care and support system, poor quality care can and chronic conditions. Improving health is no longer never be acceptable and should find no hiding-place in solely about needing episodes of acute care that seek to our country. Many hon. Members have rightly expressed cure people. It is about increasingly helping people to their serious concerns that such shocking and neglectful manage their long-term health problem, and, when they care can be—or appear to be—tolerated within our are very old or suffering from dementia, helping them NHS, and that kindness and compassion can go missing to live to the end of their days as comfortably as on some wards. The hon. Member for Bolton West possible. described her journey and the way the system almost Our model of health care has not kept pace with seems to have imprisoned people with good intentions changing needs. One third of hospital admissions are and disempowered them. The point about empowering for people over 65, but, because on average they stay in staff to live their values in their practice is an incredibly hospital twice as long, two thirds of hospital beds have important one. an older person in them. Hospitals are not the place to I will not speak to the social care piece of the debate care for older people, but hospitals are where we care in great detail today. The Backbench Business Committee for them. We must change that situation, which means has scheduled a debate on social care on 10 November, shifting services out of hospitals and into the community. and I look forward to that broader debate. I will talk We need to focus more on prevention and joining up about the problem that we have been wrestling with with social care. today. Sadly, it is not a new issue. The ombudsman 185WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 186WH report, “Care and Compassion”, is just one in a long Let me put the debate into context. There is nothing line. Evidence of poor or variable care for older people inevitable about illness and disability in old age. Dementia can be found in major clinical audits on continence care or falling over are not normal parts of ageing; illness or falls and bone health undertaken by the Royal College and ageing are not synonymous, and we must get that of Physicians; in the work of NCEPOD—the national point across when designing our systems. That does not confidential enquiry into patient outcome and death—and mean that an ageing population poses no challenges to its inquiry into pre-operative care for the over-80s, our health care system because it does, but it is also chillingly titled “an age old problem”; in the findings a cause for celebration. The age shift taking place in from the national hip fracture database; in the parliamentary our society is one of the biggest challenges we face, and inquiry into the human rights of older people in health it is right that Parliament should spend more time and social care; in the many reports by charities such as debating it. Age UK and the Alzheimer’s Society on acute care and Caring for older people is the everyday business of nutrition; or in the Mid Staffs inquiry. Taken together, the NHS and a core part of what it does. People over 65 those reports, audits and inquiries, which go back years account for 65% of hospital admissions and 70% of bed not months, paint a disturbing picture that quite rightly days. We must, therefore, look carefully, critically and has been rehearsed here today. They demand action. constructively at how the model of care needs to adapt Some people try to reduce the issues to problems that to address those needs. We have an episodic model but need simplistic solutions, of which there are none. Some we need one that reflects co-morbidities, complexity people see the issue as an opportunity to make criticisms and long-term conditions. That is the challenge, and it of modern nursing or the role of health care assistants, requires the debate that we shall have on social care, which misses the point of so many of the reports I just which is the other side of the same coin. listed. Such issues do not have a single cause, so there The hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian cannot be a single magic bullet solution. However, I am Greenwood) referred to dementia. We estimate that a clear that we have to move on from merely describing quarter of people in every adult acute hospital suffer the problem. There is an almost constant cycle of revisiting from dementia or confusion that is often undiagnosed the problem, but never actually solving it. We need to and too often ignored. That failure to diagnose can add identify steps to solve it. days to the length of a person’s stay in hospital, and create additional distress for the patient and their family. I shall outline some of the steps the Government are The hon. Member for Waveney spoke of a sense of taking in concert with others—it cannot just be déjà-vu, which I feel that I have shared for many years. governmental action—to stamp out poor care and to In opposition, I repeatedly raised the issues under discussion embed a culture of quality care, and zero tolerance of and argued that at their root lie ageist assumptions and behaviours and systems that do not facilitate that care. I practices. Time and time again, I pressed for a systematic cannot cover all the actions that are taking place; only approach to ageism in the NHS, and for the law to state some. The level of non-compliance uncovered by the beyond doubt that ageism is unacceptable; one of my CQC inspections in 100 hospitals was inexcusable; in first acts as a Minister was to rule out any exemptions my view, there are no mitigating circumstances that can from the age discrimination duty for the NHS. In future, relieve medical staff of the duty they owe their patients. the arbitrary use of age cannot be used in the NHS as a I agree with the hon. Member for Leicester West (Liz means of limiting the care and treatment that older Kendall), who said that follow-ups by the CQC need to people receive. be rapid and proportionate. Matters cannot be left unanswered. Once concerns have been identified, they The introduction of the equality delivery system across need to be properly followed up to ensure they are the NHS, involving leadership at all levels, means that addressed. for the first time a mechanism is in place to challenge and change the culture and behaviours that allow ageism My hon. Friends the Members for Suffolk Coastal to prosper. I greatly welcome the initiative led by the (Dr Coffey) and for Waveney (Peter Aldous) mentioned NHS Confederation, the Local Government Association the James Paget hospital. I shall not usurp the role of and Age UK to look at issues of dignity, and the the CQC, but its report has made it clear that the trust Department is working closely with them on that. We could face prosecution or suspension of services for the expect, however, that the work will look beyond analysing failures that have been identified. We must now await problems; we have done too much of that and there are the next report, and expect speedy and timely action too many reports sitting on shelves. The problem has from the CQC as it discharges its responsibilities. been analysed but we now need practical steps to deliver As part of the next wave of inspections announced change. yesterday by the Secretary of State, the CQC will carry A debate such as this must go beyond discussing the out inspections not only on a nine-to-five, Monday to problems; we must highlight the stories that are told less Friday basis, but outside normal hours so that we get often. In many places, care is exceptional and excellent, the fullest possible picture. That is essential and it is and 45 of the hospitals inspected were fully compliant right for that point to be raised. The CQC will undertake with the essential standards. Many NHS trusts take 500 inspections, also outside normal hours, to look at care seriously and want to get it right for older people. residential care for elderly people. It will look at the care At University Hospital Southampton NHS Trust, for and welfare of service users and their nutritional needs, example, the Southampton meal-time assistance study which will shine an important light on issues of dignity is evaluating the effectiveness of additional help from and care in the sector. The CQC will not only highlight volunteers at meal times on acute medical wards for care homes that are not performing well; it will put older people. University Hospitals Birmingham NHS those that are as they should be into the spotlight to Trust is implementing a systematic trust-wide approach take the applause they deserve when they get it right. to improve dignity, which includes using the stories of 187WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 188WH
[Paul Burstow] The role of health care assistants has been raised, and it is worth noting that the Government have put into carers and patients—the story related by the hon. Member legislation for the first time the power to regulate health for Bolton West would be relevant—in its clinical care assistants. We are breaking new ground, although I governance arrangements and regular dignity rounds. am sure some will feel that we are not doing so quickly The Department has funded work by the Royal College enough. We are taking a measured approach, however, of Nursing on improving dementia care in general by legislating for the Council for Healthcare Regulatory hospitals. That initiative was launched in September, Excellence to establish a voluntary registration scheme and the RCN spelt out its commitment to the care of that will set a benchmark for training, conduct and people with dementia and noted the critical factors competence. However, it is our view that it is right to essential to delivering good quality care. place responsibility fully and squarely on employers to decide whether to select staff on the basis of their There is, therefore, no shortage of tools, guidance, registration. They must ensure that staff have received ideas or initiatives that can be taken to tackle these the necessary training for the role that they are undertaking. issues. If we get safe and dignified care right for older people, we will get it right for the majority of those who The hon. Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey) use our health service. It is not always about money but made a very important point, which I encapsulate in about attitude, approach and doing things differently. this way. We have an NHS that all too often can be Often, it can be something simple such as putting described in industrial process terms. We need an NHS ourselves in the patient’s position and looking at the that is all about personalisation and that is personalised service through their eyes. At Sheffield’s Northern General to the individual. That is an important part of the hospital, for example, patients and carers were concerned transformation that we need. because they could not tell the difference between different Leadership has rightly been talked about a lot in the types of staff on the ward, so staff put up colourful and debate. It is critical. Directors of nursing, medical directors simple posters around the hospital that identified them and other health professionals must deal with the issues by the colour of their clothing. That suddenly lifted a raised in the CQC report. Just as the CQC has turned a barrier to patients’ understanding of what was going on spotlight on dignity and nutrition, so too must every around them, and made a real difference. NHS trust look at the report and take a long hard look at itself and the stories that this debate has highlighted. Several hon. Members have mentioned staffing levels, Too often after things have gone wrong, we learn time which is an important matter. The CQC expects registered and time again—sadly, the debate has underlined that organisations to ensure that they have enough skilled point—about the staff who tried to alert senior clinical and trained staff to deliver the care expected of them, colleagues or managers only to be ignored or, even and failure to comply carries all the relevant enforcement worse, victimised, or about the patients and families powers and consequences. The RCN has published who have been on the sharp end of appalling care and guidance on staffing ratios, and we expect that to be who are marginalised, with their experience not being consulted and used by nurse leaders, who should have used to challenge and change poor practice. the freedom to agree staff profiles for their organisations. We all recognise, however, that it is not an exact science, We all have such cases in our mailbags. We have all which returns us to the quality of leadership and culture, had constituents in our surgeries who feel let down which many hon. Members mentioned. because they have not been listened to and who do not feel that there has been any learning as a consequence The role of nurses and health care assistants has been of their experience. There can be no place in the NHS mentioned by several hon. Members. At the heart of where staff feel unable to speak up when patients are good nursing lie values of compassion, respect for the being put at risk, and no place in the NHS where the rights of the individual, empathy and kindness. The voice of patients and carers is not heard loud and clear. principles of nursing practice are clear and the Government When the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South believe that nurses must be recruited for their values, (Barbara Keeley) talked about complaints handling, trained for their skills and empowered to practise their she made very important points. Getting redress or an values in their work. That means that universities and apology should not be a battle. People should not have NHS organisations must work together on the selection to feel that the lessons are not being learned. It must be of students to ensure that requirements for education staff on the front line who work on the wards every day and practice are met, not least because the pace of and see poor care—patients not being fed properly, technological and pharmacological change demands privacy neglected, poor continence care or, as the hon. higher levels of knowledge and skills to deliver high-quality Lady said, pain relief overlooked—who change things patient care. Having a degree-educated work force does for the better. That is why we are placing all providers not mean placing technical competence ahead of values; under a duty of candour and why we are strengthening that is a key point in ensuring that caring does not turn the NHS constitution to put beyond doubt the duty on into the specialist service that some hon. Members fear managers to support staff who raise concerns about the it is becoming. quality of care. That point was touched on in the Caring demands high standards, leadership, and a debate. We need to send a clear message that managers readiness to challenge poor practice and demonstrate must support staff who raise concerns about the quality good practice. I will follow up the suggestion about of care. It is also why we are establishing HealthWatch meeting the Nursing and Midwifery Council, and I will England and local HealthWatch to champion the interests ask my officials to discuss the matter with the Minister of patients and carers. responsible for nursing, my hon. Friend the Member for There can be and should be no hiding place for poor Guildford (Anne Milton), who I know takes a close care. The CQC inspections that the Government ordered interest in such issues. are part of the work to take that agenda forward, but 189WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 190WH are by no means all of it. There is no magic bullet their patch and working with the CQC to bring about a solution to this problem. We need a wide range of quicker resolution to the problems thatthey encounter things: an effective inspection and regulation regime, there. which measures what matters to patients and carers and I found noteworthy the issues facing rural areas to then takes action; guidance on what good practice which my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal looks like—for instance, the range of National Institute referred, because I represent a suburban area. It is for Health and Clinical Excellence quality standards interesting to note that ambulance response times can and guidelines on older people’s care; and the systematic be so long in rural communities. It is very important involvement of older people and carers in the design of that the NHS is able to be flexible enough to cope with services from the outset. all the communities in our country. We need greater transparency on complaints. We The hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith) must ensure that we get it right the first time and that we gave us the benefit of his experience as a member of the value complaints as a way of learning and changing the Public Accounts Committee. I was pleased that he way organisations and leaders in organisations behave. focused so much on the residential home sector, which Feedback is needed to improve services. People must is so relevant to the lives of many older people and seek continuously to improve services. Another element about which a similar level of concern has been expressed is use of the law. We sometimes debate human rights in in many reports. I was horrified, although slightly amused, a very negative way. In this area, human rights are I suppose, by the tambourine example. It was so powerful central, and we must deliver them for older people. We and so wrong. It will stay with me as a reminder of the must use our equalities duty legislation as well. many challenges that we have ahead in dealing with this Another requirement is effective advocacy and leadership issue. from professions at every level—at ward level, at institution I mentioned the issue with the James Paget hospital level and at the level of the Royal Colleges and specialist that my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney is dealing societies. We need a work force supported with the with. He raises the question that many Governments training and skills to make them fit to care for an ageing have grappled with—how to get resourcing out of the population. That is a new challenge, and we need to acute sector and into the community, the area of prevention adapt to meet it. Other requirements are advocacy and and helping people with long-term medical conditions. support from the voluntary sector and—notwithstanding That is very important. I wish the present Government some of our debates about system change—system well in seeing whether they can crack that pressing incentives, such as outcome indicators and best practice problem, which has been with us for least two decades, tariffs to drive the right behaviours. We need much to my recollection. My hon. Friend also mentioned more transparency around performance data, such as what I think is a very good idea—mandatory malnutrition those provided by CQC inspections, audits and satisfaction rates and finding out what can be done to ensure that surveys. We need a greater focus on integration—many we target that area of deficiency in the NHS. hon. Members touched on this—so that older people My hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth are in hospital only when they need to be. Hospital is (Sarah Newton), who has secured a Back-Bench debate not the right place for most older people in most on the Dilnot report to be held two weeks today, which circumstances. I am sure as many Members as possible will attend, This is about culture and systems. The Government focused on the complaints process, which I touched on recognise that. We know that we cannot do it on our briefly. It is important that the Government learn from own. We are working with others to make the changes the ombudsman’s report, “Listening and Learning”, that are needed. Yes, there has to be action now. The and implement improvements. Government are taking immediate action by casting the My hon. Friend also mentioned something I have spotlight where it needs to be. We must then sustain come across in my work with older people in the NHS— the action to get the transformation that is essential to language skills. It is completely unacceptable if any delivering quality of care and the dignity and rights of carer—any caring member of staff—cannot communicate older people in the NHS and anywhere else they need competently in English with older people, and we should care. tackle that. She also touched on the rural dimension and on the fact, which was terrible to hear, that her 5.15 pm constituents have only one hospital, which inevitably Margot James: It is a pleasure to speak under your makes people frightened to complain; there is no other chairmanship, Mrs Brooke. We have had an extremely choice. illuminating and, at times, distressing debate. I am very The hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) grateful to all hon. Members who took part, including talked movingly about dignity and about older people those who have had to leave, for bringing so many in society, on which I hope we will hold a debate at some aspects of this difficult problem into the open and for point. The hon. Member for Leicester West (Liz Kendall), making so many constructive suggestions about how we whom I congratulate on her new role as shadow Minister, might improve things. I should like to set out a few of said that the topic could be a debate in its own right, the lessons that I have learned from hon. Members and I am sure that a Member will secure one at some during the debate. point. I share her belief in the importance of values: My hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal most people who work in the NHS have the values that (Dr Coffey) set an example of the importance of the job we expect, and as she said, they have to be empowered that we sometimes have of challenging the institutions to make choices and decisions that reflect those values. on which so many of our constituents depend. I wish The hon. Lady talked about many important areas her and my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter and enlightened us about the Royal College of Nursing’s Aldous) every success in dealing with the hospital on staff-to-patient ratios. It is quite wrong that the accepted 191WH NHS Care of Older People27 OCTOBER 2011 NHS Care of Older People 192WH
[Margot James] that after all the family has been through her mother is on the mend, and we hope that she will recover as much ratio in a ward with a considerable number of older of her former joy of life as possible. people is 1:10, whereas a paediatric ward is quite rightly I am grateful for and most encouraged by the Minister’s staffed at a ratio of 1:4. The Government should also reply to the debate. He reminded us of the Government’s consider what can be done about concerns regarding recent decision to ensure that ageism is not tolerated in the skill mix and the management of resources. the NHS or the Department of Health, which is a good The hon. Lady made some interesting observations development. He cited many examples of good work about the history of the NHS—how it began in response and guidance, of which he said there was no shortage, to cures and to treating people with illnesses that were of leadership and management and of spreading good likely to get better, and how it has not quite kept pace work and guidance into more areas of the delivery of with the number of people who grow to an old age, NHS care. I am particularly delighted that he has some of whom need help with care and, perhaps, dying promised to discuss with the nursing Minister, my hon. with dignity. Friend the Member for Guildford (Anne Milton), my proposals on nurse training, and how an apprenticeship The hon. Lady made a point, on which neither I nor model should increasingly underpin the degrees nurses any other Member had focused, about doctors, who take to qualify. provide a huge amount of care in hospitals. I hope I have covered the important issues that Members have raised today. I thank those who supported my bid The hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) for a debate to the Backbench Business Committee and commanded our attention with the moving story of the all those who attended this afternoon and made such an dreadful time that she and her family had experienced important contribution. with her mother. I think I can speak for everyone when I say that we wish her mother a continued recovery. It Question put and agreed to. was impossible to determine how the story would end 5.25 pm when the hon. Lady was speaking, but it is marvellous Sitting adjourned. 15WS Written Ministerial Statements27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 16WS
I emphasised the importance of a decisive co-ordinated Written Ministerial recapitalisation as part of a comprehensive solution to the euro crisis, and that this should be accompanied by Statements reform of Europe’s banking sector. I also underlined that there should be no watering down of state aid rules. The president of the Council presented the outcome Thursday 27 October 2011 of the meeting to the European Council, and it was reflected in the European Council conclusions as follows: “The European Council welcomes progress made by the Council BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS (ECOFIN) on measures for the banking sector and invites the Council to finalise this work at its meeting of 26 October. These Apprenticeships (Progress and Delivery) measures will be an essential component of a broader package whose other elements will be agreed by the Euro Summit of 26 October.” The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning (Mr John Hayes): As demonstrated by the statistical first release published today (http://www. thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/statisticalfirstrelease/sfr DEFENCE _current/) we have seen a record year for apprenticeships, both in respect of the volumes of people starting and British Nuclear Test Veterans completing their apprenticeship. Provisional data for the full 2010-11 academic year show starts increased by over 50% to 442,700 with increases at all levels. Completions The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence also saw a strong increase to 181,700. (Mr Andrew Robathan): The Government are committed We have delivered increases in apprenticeship starts to providing effective, through-life health services for at all age groups. Provisional data show that numbers our service and ex-service personnel. of apprenticeship starts increased to 128,300 for those As part of that commitment, last year we commissioned aged under 19, 138,900 for 19 to 24-year-olds and an independent health needs audit by Miles and Green 175,500 for those aged 25 and over in 2010-11. For Associates. I am announcing today the publication of young people in particular, these are positive figures in their report. I would also like to express my appreciation a time when they are facing particular challenges in the for the help and support provided to Miles and Green labour market. This is very encouraging and employers Associates by the British Nuclear Test Veterans Association are continuing to use apprenticeships as a means of (BNTVA). developing the skills they need for their businesses. Apprenticeships are first and foremost sustainable The audit records the direct experience and views of jobs, which makes it a remarkable achievement to deliver nuclear test veterans about their health and social care growth in the programme on such a scale. We can be needs. Whatever their particular health needs, most confident that the growth being reported today is in respondents indicated that, in general, they felt their those apprenticeships which businesses value and are health and social care needs were being met by the NHS investing in. Growth is evident across sectors. although a number of issues were raised about access to social care. The veterans also made suggestions for the We will build upon this success and continue to future relating to general health and social care needs, improve and strengthen the programme further so even those more specific to veterans and ways in which more individuals and employers can access and benefit relations and communications with the Ministry of from an apprenticeship programme that is world class. Defence (MOD) could be improved. As we look to the future we will continue to improve access to apprenticeships; improve and drive up quality The MOD will now consider the report’s findings and for all apprenticeships; reduce bureaucracy; expand suggestions made by the veterans in detail and in advanced level and higher apprenticeships and give consultation with other Government Departments and employers greater ownership of the programme. will wish to work with the BNTVA going forward on looking at the various issues raised. A copy of the full report will be placed in the Library TREASURY of the House and will also be available on the MOD’s website at the following address: Extraordinary ECOFIN http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/ WhatWeDo/HealthandSafety/NuclearTests/ The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): An extraordinary meeting of the Economic and Financial Submarine Dismantling Project Affairs Council was held in Brussels on 22 October 2011. The Council met to prepare the European Council meeting of 23 October as regards measures to stabilise The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence the situation on financial markets, restore confidence, (Peter Luff): The Ministry of Defence will tomorrow— and foster economic growth and employment. It held 8 October 2011—start a period of public consultation an exchange of views on bank recapitalisation and on the options for dismantling nuclear-powered submarines funding as part of a comprehensive strategy to be that have left service with the Royal Navy, including defined by the European Council and by Heads of State those that are in afloat storage at Devonport and Rosyth and Government of the euro area. dockyards. 17WS Written Ministerial Statements27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 18WS
Submarines in afloat storage are maintained safely, in FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE a similar way to operational submarines. As they age, however, and as further submarines leave service, the Ascension Island cost to the taxpayer of maintaining them is rising significantly, and space to store them is running out. This consultation will seek the public’s views on the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign proposals that have been developed by the MOD’s and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): My Submarine Dismantling Project (SDP) for dismantling hon. Friend the Minister for the Armed Forces, the and disposing of the submarines in a safe, secure and Member for North Devon (Nick Harvey) and I are environmentally responsible way. It will seek views on pleased to inform the House that the financial dispute the three key decisions that need to be made about between the Ministry of Defence and the Ascension submarine dismantling: Island Government has been resolved and that we have How the radioactive material is removed from the submarines; agreed with the Ascension Island Council a number of changes to the island’s finance model which will help to Where we carry out the removal of the radioactive material from the submarines; and ensure a sustainable future for Ascension. Which type of site is used to store the radioactive waste that Earlier this year, we commissioned a review of service is awaiting disposal. delivery and finance arrangements on the island. That review was carried out by FCO officials working closely The consultation will run for 16 weeks, from 28 October with all stakeholders. The three key recommendations 2011 until 17 February 2012. This period has been of the review which we have agreed, and to which all extended from the 12-week minimum to account for the stakeholders have committed, are: Christmas holidays and in recognition of the interest in the project. The establishment of a Budget Consultation Forum to make recommendations on the Ascension Island Government’s A series of events, including exhibitions and workshops, budget. The forum will comprise representatives of the will be held in and around the Devonport and Rosyth Ascension Island Government and the major, externally areas, where the candidate sites for the removal of the based taxpaying Employing Organisations on the island; radioactive waste from the submarines are located. The replacement of Property Tax with a Business Levy National workshops will also be held in accessible locations based on employee headcount; and in England and Scotland. A year-on-year reduction of 7% over the next four years in the levy on the major Employing Organisations. Consultation events will be advertised in the local press and on the project website, www.mod.uk/ We recognise the role played by the Island Council in submarinedismantling, where all relevant documentation, this process, who have already begun a programme of including extensive supporting information, will also be significant efficiency savings. They will now consider published. All the responses received during the consultation the remainder of the recommendations in the report process will be considered by the MOD during its which concern the increase or implementation of taxes further analysis of the options before final decisions are and duties and other means of raising revenue, and made around 2013. Only then will planning applications continue to reduce duplication of services on the island. for activities on specific sites be made. We welcome this approach which we believe will ensure the effectiveness and efficiency of service delivery Details of the MOD’s proposals and of the plans for and the viability of Ascension Island’s finances. public consultation are included in the SDP consultation document, copies of which will be placed in the Library of the House. Prevention of Torture 2011-2015 (FCO Strategy)
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Office (Mr Jeremy Browne): I wish to make the House aware that the FCO has developed a Strategy for the Prevention of Torture. I have placed a copy of the strategy Official Report (Correction) in the Library of the House and it is also available on the FCO website. International action against torture has long been a The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for priority for the UK. The UK considers torture to be an Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): abhorrent violation of human rights and human dignity, I should like to correct my response to a topical question and consistently and unreservedly condemns the practice. on the application of the Freedom of Information Act Preventing torture and tackling impunity for those who to the new waterways charity (the Canal and River torture are essential components of safeguarding Britain’s Trust) by the hon. Member for Chippenham (Duncan security; and it is integral to fair legal systems and the Hames) on 13 October, Official Report, column 471. rule of law. Torture prevention work also reinforces our The Government are publicly consulting on the point consular work overseas when British nationals imprisoned raised by the hon. Member, and have not yet taken up abroad allege mistreatment. a position on the matter. The consultation closed on The “Strategy for the Prevention of Torture” sets out 24 October, and we are now considering the consultation FCO policy to 2015 and offers guidance to FCO posts responses, prior to making a decision. A copy of the on how they can contribute to preventing torture overseas. consultation document can be found at www.defra.gov.uk/ Our objective is to help international efforts to prevent consult/2011/09/12/waterways-1109/. torture globally by working to ensure: The Government will publish their analysis of the Legal frameworks to prevent and prohibit torture are in responses and their own response later in the autumn. place and are enforced; 19WS Written Ministerial Statements27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 20WS
States have the political will and capacity to prevent and TRANSPORT prohibit torture; Organisations on the ground have the expertise and training to prevent torture. Rail Franchising HEALTH
HIV/AIDS The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers): In May this year, the then Secretary of State announced that the next intercity west coast The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health franchise would start on 9 December 2012. It was (Anne Milton): We have today laid before Parliament further announced that the Department intended to the Government response to the House of Lords Select enter into negotiations with the incumbent franchisee Committee’s report “No vaccine, no cure: HIV and (West Coast Trains Ltd and Virgin Rail Group) to AIDS in the United Kingdom” (Cm 8190). secure affordable and value-for-money operations until The Department of Health took part in the inquiry the start of the new franchise. and the Government are grateful for the Committee’s I am pleased to announce that the Department has report and agree with many of its recommendations. now agreed an extension with West Coast Trains Ltd Twenty-five years have passed since the Government’s and Virgin Rail Group. This agreement will extend their first response to HIV and AIDS. At that time there was current franchise on the intercity west coast route from no effective treatment and an HIV diagnosis was seen as 1 April 2012 until the start of the new franchise. a life-limiting condition resulting in death. Today the Over the course of the extension three new 600-seat availability of highly effective treatment has transformed Pendolino trains will be added to the line. This is in the outlook for people with HIV. addition to the new Pendolino train which entered As the report makes clear, we need to reduce undiagnosed service in July of this year. Also, 31 of the existing HIV so people can benefit from effective treatment Pendolino trains will be lengthened from nine to and to prevent HIV transmission. The Government’s 11 carriages, increasing the number of standard class modernisation of the NHS and priority for public health seats on each train by almost 50%, from 320 to 470. In provides a good opportunity to improve outcomes for all, 106 new carriages are being introduced on the route HIV and improve prevention. making 28,000 extra seats available each day, an increase The House of Lords ad hoc Committee’s report will of 25%. This will relieve crowding on some of the also help inform the Department of Health’s new sexual busiest parts of the west coast main line which is one health policy framework planned for 2012. the UK economy’s most important transport corridors. Copies of the Government’s response are available to Virgin will also be responsible for providing important hon. Members from the Vote Office and to noble Lords services enabling people to travel by train to the Olympic from the Printed Paper Office. and Paralympic games next summer.
3P Petitions27 OCTOBER 2011 Petitions 4P
And your Petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray Petition &c.—[Presented by Fiona Mactaggart, Official Report, 29 June 2011; Vol. 530, c. 1074 .] Thursday 27 October 2011 [P000933] Observations from the Secretary of State for Education: OBSERVATIONS The Department received 281 applications to open a Free School as part of the 2012 application round. This included an application from the Slough Sikh Education EDUCATION Trust (SSET) to establish Khalsa Academy in 2012. Khalsa Academy (Slough) All groups provided information to a set deadline—as The Humble Petition of the Slough Sikh Education set out in the “How to apply” form. This required Trust and members of the Sikh community within Slough detailed information on the vision and ethos of the and South Buckinghamshire. proposed schools, their educational plan, evidence of parental demand for the provision being offered, Sheweth, site options which represents best value for money and That the application of the Slough Sikh Education the capacity and capability of the groups to deliver the Trust to build and open a new Sikh Secondary Faith project. Groups that met the Government’s minimum School, “Khalsa Academy” in September 2012, was requirements were judged against each other and scored submitted in June 2011; that the Academy is to be sited on the strength of their proposals. Shortlisted applicants next to the existing successful Sikh primary school; and were called for an interview to discuss aspects of their that the trustees have, over the past year, exhausted all proposal. A list of applications which were successful other feasible site options in the Slough area. following the interviews is available on the DfE website. Wherefore your Petitioners pray that your honourable http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/leadership/typesofschools/ House urges the Government to approve the application freeschools/b00197715/free-schools-2012 of the Slough Sikh Education Trust to build and open The Department provides feedback to all unsuccessful the Khalsa Academy in September 2012; and to support applicants on how their application could be strengthened their endeavours to build the school on land near the should they wish to re-apply in a future Free School existing Sikh Primary School. application round.
279W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 280W
Anne Milton: Overseas visitors to the United Kingdom Written Answers to are charged for national health service hospital treatment unless an exemption applies under Regulations. These Questions Regulations and accompanying guidance for the NHS were updated and simplified on 1 August 2011. Changes to immigration rules are expected to come into force on Thursday 27 October 2011 31 October 2011 that will allow the UK Border Agency to refuse entry or extension of stay to visitors with an unpaid debt to the NHS of £1,000 or more. The Government are reviewing the rules and practices HEALTH on access to the NHS by overseas visitors. This work Contraceptives includes how to establish more effective and efficient processes across the NHS to identify those who must pay for NHS treatment and make and recover charges Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for from them, including those who specifically come to the Health what proportion of contraception provision his UK trying to obtain NHS treatment without charge. Department estimates will be provided by general practitioners through the GP contract under his proposals for the public health service. [76720] Influenza: Vaccination
Anne Milton: The Department’s estimate is that general Ann Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for Health practitioners currently provide around 75%, of all when he expects the conclusions of the Health Protection contraception in England. The majority of this is through Agency’s study on the cost-effectiveness of extending the national general practitioner contract and it also influenza vaccination to (a) healthy children between includes any locally commissioned provision by primary six months and five years of age and (b) other healthy care trusts (PCTs). We expect no change in the proportion people to be published. [76779] of contraception provided through the national general practitioner contract as a result of our proposals for Anne Milton: The Health Protection Agency intends improving public health. Subject to the passage of the to submit the study for publication in peer-reviewed Health and Social Care Bill responsibility for decisions scientific literature as soon as it can. on locally commissioned contraceptive provision outside the national general practitioner contract moves from Ipswich Hospital: Private Finance Initiative PCTs to local authorities from 1 April 2013. Diabetes: Young People Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will publish the (a) cost, (b) date of commencement and (c) duration of each private finance initiative contract Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for with the Garrett Anderson Centre at Ipswich Hospital. Health what steps his Department is taking to prevent [76762] the onset of diabetes in young people. [77056]
Paul Burstow: I refer the hon. Member to the answer Mr Simon Burns: Information on all private finance I gave him on 17 October 2011, Official Report, column initiative (PFI) schemes is published on the HM Treasury’s 771W. website at: www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/ Domestic Violence pfi_signed_projects_list_march2011.xls The information for the (single) PFI contract at Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Ipswich Hospital NHS Trust for the Elizabeth Garret Health what definition of domestic violence his Department Anderson Treatment Centre shows: uses; and whether there are any qualifications of that it has a capital cost of £36 million and reached financial close definition in respect of particular services and processes in March 2006; for which his Department is responsible. [77008] the estimated annual unitary payment from the trust to the private sector contractor was £3.2 million for 20010-11; and Anne Milton: The current cross-Government definition the operational period under the contract is 30 years (the new defines domestic violence as: treatment centre opened in June 2008). “any incident of threatening behaviour, violence or abuse (psychological, physical, sexual, financial or emotional1) between Postnatal Depression: Huddersfield adults who are or have been intimate partners or family members, regardless of gender or sexuality”. Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 Recognises Female Genital Mutilation, forced marriage and so-called ’honour-crimes’. Adult is any person aged 18 and over Health if he will assess recent trends in rates of women family members are: mother, father, son, daughter, brother, sister suffering from post-natal depression in Huddersfield. and grandparents; directly-related, in-laws or step-family. [76981]
Health Services: Overseas Visitors Anne Milton: Most women diagnosed with post-natal depression are treated in primary care. Information is Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for not collected centrally about diagnoses in primary care. Health what steps he is taking to prevent health Reliable data are not available about the number of tourism. [77058] women with post-natal depression. 281W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 282W
Primary Care Trusts: Empty Property health and social care, the Secretary of State announced the extension of the Social Enterprise Investment Fund Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Health for 2011-12. what plans he has for property owned by primary care trusts following their closure. [77005] TRANSPORT Mr Simon Burns: Subject to the passage of the Health and Social Care Bill through Parliament, primary care Departmental Billing trusts (PCTs) will be abolished in April 2013. The Department announced on 4 August 2011 that aspirant Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport community foundation trusts, other national health what the average cost to her Department was of processing service trusts, and foundation trusts are to be given the the payment of an invoice in the latest period for which opportunity to acquire part(s) of the PCT estate deemed figures are available; and what proportion of invoices “service critical clinical infrastructure”. The relevant settled in that period her Department paid (a) electronically guidance is available on the Department’s website: and (b) by cheque. [74986] www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/ PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_129008 Norman Baker: The average cost of processing the PCTs have been working with NHS providers to payment of an invoice for the Department is £4.57 (the agree the portfolio of properties that will transfer to previous year cost was £4.99). them. Proposed lists are with strategic health authorities for approval at present. It is expected that the Department In determining the average cost of processing an will sign off these provisional lists by 15 December 2011, invoice, the cost is calculated by taking the staff costs and that actual transfers of estate will commence in for those staff who are solely involved in invoice processing 2012. and dividing it by the total number of invoices paid. The calculation does not take into account accommodation PCTs will retain those parts of the estate not transferred and IT/equipment costs. to NHS providers for the time being. An announcement and further guidance relating to this part of the estate The average proportion of invoices settled electronically will be issued in due course. and by cheque for the Department is: Electronic—96.2% Sex: Health Services Cheque—3.8% Departmental Magazine Press Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what powers his Department will have in respect of a local authority which opts not to commission Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for abortion services after the implementation of his proposed Transport whether her Department produces a staff NHS reforms; [76721] magazine; and with what frequency. [72810] (2) what steps his Department is taking to ensure that Norman Baker: The majority of DFT and DFT comprehensive sexual health services including abortion agency staff communications are electronic publications and contraception services are commissioned and delivered produced in-house to reduce costs and paper consumption. by all local authorities after the implementation of his A small number of print publications are produced for proposed NHS reforms. [76722] front line staff who work out of the office without ready access to the IT systems. Anne Milton: It is the Government’s intention that there should be a small number of activities that local The following table gives the titles and frequency of authorities will be required by regulations to commission, print publications: and these activities will include appropriate access to contraception and abortion services. Department/Agency Magazine Frequency Driving Standards The Standard (printed Every other month Social Enterprises Agency magazine) Driver and Vehicle Licence (electronic with Monthly Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Licensing Agency small print run) what discussions he has had about promoting social Highways Agency Networks (electronic with Monthly enterprises within his Department’s area of responsibility small print run) in each month since May 2010; and if he will make a statement. [77022] Departmental Procurement
Paul Burstow: The Secretary of State for Health, the Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport right hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley) how many contracts her Department has awarded directly has promoted social enterprise by announcing the third to third sector organisations in each month since May wave of Right to Request in September 2010. In response 2010; what the value was of such contracts; and if she to the announcement by the Minister for the Cabinet will make a statement. [75166] Office and Paymaster General, the right hon. Member for Horsham (Mr Maude) of a cross-Government Right Norman Baker: The Department for Transport has to Provide, the Secretary of State also launched a Right awarded seven contracts directly to third sector organisations to Provide for national health service and social care since May 2010. Details of these contracts are shown in staff in March 2011. To support social enterprises in the following table: 283W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 284W
Invalid Vehicles: Safety Month Number of contracts Value (£) June 2010 1 10,000 Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for July 2010 2 36,500 Transport what progress her Department has made in February 2011 2 3,100 considering responses to its consultation on proposed March 2011 1 700 changes to the law governing powered mobility scooters April 2011 1 4,180 and powered wheelchairs; and whether she has considered implementing additional requirements to make mobility vehicles more conspicuous for the purposes of improving Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport the safety of the mobility vehicle user and other road how many contracts her Department has advertised on users. [75513] the Contracts Finder website in each month since May 2010; what the value was of such contracts; what proportion Norman Baker [holding answer 19 October 2011]: were awarded to (a) third sector organisations and The Department’s full response to the consultation will (b) small businesses; and if she will make a statement. be published as soon as possible. Following careful [75169] consideration and analysis of all the responses received, Norman Baker: The Department for Transport has I have asked my officials to undertake further work with advertised 122 contracts on the Contracts Finder website transport operators, the industry and user group since May 2010. representatives on the following issues: The number, value and proportion awarded to third options for training and incentives for vehicle users to take up sector organisations and small businesses are shown in training; the following table: a possible minimum eyesight requirement and incentives for users to meet these requirements; Proportion the case for increasing the unladen weight limit for powered Proportion to Small wheelchairs only; Number of to Third Businesses the carriage of mobility scooters on public transport; Month contracts Value (£) Sector (£) (£) improved guidance and information for mobility vehicle users; May 1 1,500,000 0 0 and 2010 replacing the legal term “invalid carriage” with a more suitable December 10 00and contemporary term, and a review of how current legislation 2010 could be better enforced. February 8 173,000 21,625 21,625 Any improved safety measures will need to be considered 2011 in relation to the aims of the Red Tape Challenge. March 10 64,935,862 0 0 2011 The Highway Code reminds users of the need to be April 4 151,000 0 0 conspicuous and this advice will be reiterated in any 2011 guidance and information produced by my Department. May 4 202,246 0 0 Railways: Snow and Ice 2011 June 21 44,880,000 0 103,626 2011 John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for July 29 3,096,492 0 0 Transport how many de-icing vehicles she estimates will 2011 be available for use on the third-rail electrified network August 22 17,189,850 0 0 on 1 November 2011. [76801] 2011 September 22 3,296,072 22,715 0 Norman Baker [holding answer 26 October 2011]: 2011 The following table details the number of third rail treatment trains that will be available this year compared Domestic Violence to last year.
Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010-11 2011-12 Transport what definition of domestic violence her Department uses; and whether there are any qualifications GLV1 Two available from Three available from 1 November 2011 of that definition in respect of particular services and 1 December 2010 processes for which her Department is responsible. MPV2 16 available from 16 available from 1 December 2011 1 December 2010 then 21 available from 1 February [77002] 2012 3 Norman Baker: In 2004, the Government introduced SITT None available Six available from 1 December 2011 4 a single definition of domestic violence replacing the CI 375 None available 20 Class 375 vehicles capable of delivering anti-ice treatment while previous 14 different definitions in use across government operating in passenger service will be and the public sector. The current cross-government available from 1 November 2011 definition defines domestic violence as “any incident of 1 GLV (Gatwick Luggage Van)—Provides anti-icing and de-icing threatening behaviour, violence or abuse (psychological, capability. physical, sexual, financial or emotional) between adults 2 MPV (Multi-Purpose Vehicle)—Provides an anti-icing capability. who are or have been intimate partners or family members, 3 SITT (Snow and Ice Treatment Trains)—Provides a heavy duty snow and ice clearance capability. regardless of gender or sexuality” and this definition is 4 CI 375 (Modified Southeastern Class 375 Electrostar train). The used in my Department’s Staff Handbook. There are train has been modified to apply anti-icing fluid to the conductor rail no qualifications to the definition. while in normal passenger service. 285W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 286W
John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for Levy Sustainability Fund after its discontinuation; and Transport what information her Department holds on for what purposes any such payments are being applied. which train operating companies have arrangements to [74928] carry emergency blankets and supplies on trains during periods of severe winter weather. [76802] Richard Benyon: The Aggregates Levy Sustainability Fund (ALSF) was managed by DEFRA and discontinued Norman Baker [holding answer 26 October 2011]: at the end of the financial year ending March 2011. The The Department does not collect information on train decision was taken as part of the spending review operating companies’ arrangements to carry emergency settlement in October 2010 in a very tight spending blankets and supplies on trains during periods of severe context where we had to look very carefully across all winter weather. This is an operational matter for the the Department’s priorities to see where we can make companies. However we are aware that some companies best use of available funds in keeping with the Government’s such as Southeastern do hold equipment such as foil priority of cutting the deficit. blankets for use in such eventualities. If he is concerned The Aggregates Levy, which was introduced in April about any particular train operating company, the hon. 2002, is the responsibility of Her Majesty’s Revenue Member may wish to take this up with them direct. and Customs (HMRC) and it still exists. The revenue collected is part of general Government revenue and does not go into a specific pot. SCOTLAND Agriculture: Manpower Departmental Correspondence Brandon Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what proportion Scotland pursuant to the answer of 19 October 2011, of the workforce in the farming and agricultural sector OfficialReport,column996W,ondepartmentalcorrespondence, is aged between 18 and 25; [75641] who he plans to invite to his proposed series of seminars on unemployment and roundtable meetings on the Big (2) what the change in the number of 18 to 25 year Society; and if he will invite hon. Members representing olds in employment in the farming and agricultural Scottish constituencies to such meetings. [77006] sector (a) was in each year from May 1997 to May 2010 and (b) has been since May 2010. [75780] Michael Moore: Invitations to the Scotland Office seminars on unemployment are agreed in collaboration Mr Paice: DEFRA does not hold this information. with the organisations we work in partnership with in arranging the events, typically the local authority. Hon. Bats Members are invited to seminars held in their constituencies. The invitee list for the next youth unemployment seminar, Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for which will take place in Falkirk in November 2011, is Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she is currently being drawn up and is not yet available. taking to protect the (a) greater and (b) lesser The big society roundtable meetings take the form of Horseshoe bat. [75077] small focus groups which allow a range of stakeholder organisations to inform Government of their experiences. Richard Benyon: All species of bats are afforded a The location for the next roundtable event has yet to be very high level of protection through transposition of decided and the invitee list is not yet available. the EU Habitats Directive into UK law; this includes making it an offence to deliberately capture, injure or Family Intervention Programme kill a bat or to damage or destroy a breeding or resting site. In addition, the very best sites for populations of Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for greater and lesser horseshoe bats have been given further Scotland what proportion of the funding allocated to protection as sites of special scientific interest and the family intervention programme for families with special areas of conservation. Natural England works multiple problems will be allocated to the Scottish with landowners within agri-environment schemes to government under the Barnett formula. [76160] enhance the environment for both the lesser and greater horseshoe bat. The Joint Nature Conservation Committee Danny Alexander: I have been asked to reply. and Natural England also provide financial support to Policy for the family intervention programme is devolved the Bat Conservation Trust to co-ordinate the National to the Scottish Government. Funding in England is Bat Monitoring Programme, which in turn provides being met within existing spending review settlements, annual population trend data. The latest data from on which the Scottish Government have already received 2010 suggests that the population of both species is Barnett consequentials. increasing steadily.
British Waterways: Pensions ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Andrew Miller: To ask the Secretary of State for Aggregates Levy Sustainability Fund Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what are the British Waterways pension past service liabilities in Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for respect of (a) retired personnel and (b) staff who it is Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether mineral proposed will transfer to the Canal and River Trust; extractors are continuing to pay into the Aggregates [75956] 287W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 288W
(2) what the British Waterways pension deficit is; and the changes necessary to deliver real reform. In particular, what proportion of this deficit is attributable to (a) UK proposals are aimed at eliminating discards, retired staff and (b) staff who it is proposed will decentralisation of decision-making, a more economically transfer to the Canal and River Trust. [75957] rational fisheries management system, greater integration of fisheries and environmental management, and also Richard Benyon: The last triennial valuation of the applying the principles of sustainable use both outside British Waterways pension fund carried out by the Scheme EU waters and within. Actuary on 31 March 2010 showed that the total past service liabilities were £340 million. Of this, £220 million Dairy Farming related to 3,634 members who were either pensioners or former employees who were not then on pension. The Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for remaining £120 million related to the 1,296 active members Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment who were employed by BW at the time of the valuation. she has made of the potential environmental effects of No formal valuation has been prepared since March dairy farmers switching to beef production. [75043] 2010 although estimated updates have been prepared by the Scheme Actuary for the pension fund Trustees. As Mr Paice: DEFRA has commissioned research to at 30 June 2011 the total number of pensioner and understand better the environmental impacts (eg greenhouse deferred members was 3,677 and the active members gas emissions and diffuse pollution) of dairy and beef totalled 1,281. It is expected that all active members at production systems in their own right, and on subjects the time, with the exception of those that remain in (eg forage improvement and evaluation) which are generic BWB (Scotland), will transfer to the employment of the to both systems, but not specifically on the effects of Canal and River Trust. switching from dairy to beef production. At the date of the March 2010 actuarial valuation of “Change in the Air and Testing the Water”, the two the British Waterways Pension Fund the pension deficit parts of industry’s current English Beef and Sheep was £65.6 million. Given the causes of the pension Production Roadmap, discuss the sustainability of the deficit, it would not be appropriate to attribute ’proportions sectors and set out some benchmarks for performance. of the deficit’ in the manner suggested. The roadmp can be found at: http://www.eblex.org.uk/publications/corporate.aspx Common Agricultural Policy Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she is Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what representations taking to provide assistance for dairy farmers. [76215] (a) she and (b) officials in her Department made Mr Paice: The future prosperity and sustainability of during discussions with her international counterparts the dairy industry lies to a large extent in its own hands on making animal welfare a stated objective of the but the Government provide assistance for dairy farmers reformed common agricultural policy. [73848] in many ways. Mr Paice: The Government are committed to improving Through the Dairy Supply Chain Forum, Government farm animal welfare and minimum standards set by the challenge senior sector representatives to discuss the EU are already some of the highest in the world. Most health and future of the dairy sector and identify recently, the UK has made significant progress in improving opportunities which should benefit dairy farmers. These the welfare of both broiler chickens and laying hens. We include exploring new export markets or replacing imports have also led the rest of Europe in improvements to pig with British products to improve our trade balance and welfare. therefore demand for British milk supplies. Formal negotiations on the CAP proposals are only We have encouraged and supported industry’s just beginning, and as yet DEFRA has not made any development of its own voluntary code of practice on representations on animal welfare in relation to the contractual relations for farmers and the Dairy 2020 CAP. DEFRA will continue to work with the European project which will produce an action plan to secure Commission, European Parliament, member states and long-term industry sustainability. domestic stakeholders to press for an ambitious reform Government and industry are both investing substantial of the CAP that delivers good value for farmers, taxpayers, sums in research in the sector. For 2009-10, DEFRA consumers and the environment. research programmes representing a combined spend of about £16 million were of relevance to the dairy sector. Common Fisheries Policy Farmers can access Rural Development Programme (England) funds. SME dairy processors, which may Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for include or be supplied by dairy farmers, should be able Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proposals to access both the Enterprise Capital Funds programme she has made to the European Commission on and the Business Growth Fund. amending the common fisheries policy. [75280] The Government are responding to the report of the Task Force on Farming Regulation, which contains Richard Benyon: The UK Government are committed several recommendations with application to dairy farmers. to achieving genuine and radical reform of the common The Government will make an initial response later in fisheries policy (CFP). The European Commission’s the autumn. proposals for reform are a welcome start but we need to The Government have also launched the Government work with others—including member states, the European Buying Standards to ensure food procured by Government Parliament and the European Commission—to agree Departments meets UK standards of production wherever 289W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 290W this can be achieved, without increasing overall cost. Amount Solicitors The Government facilitated the industry’s development of country of origin labelling principles. Less than £25,000 Bird and Co Solicitors The Government are introducing a Groceries Code £50,000 to £99,999 Eversheds Adjudicator to monitor and enforce the Groceries Supply £150,000 to £199,999 Pinsent Masons Code of Practice. Amount Barristers
Less than £25,000 Adam Birkby, Charles George, Charles Departmental Legal Opinion Mynors, Charles Snelling, Chole Hudson, Clare Hennessy, Collin Thomann, Emma Dixon, Hamish Common, Helen Roddick, Angela Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Helen Wolstenholme, Howard Shaw, James Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the average Byrne, John Jolliffe, Lee Fish, Lisa Busch, hourly rate paid was to external (a) solicitors and (b) Louise Hartley, Marina Wheeler, Mark Cooper, Matthew Orr, Michael Collis, Mikhael barristers engaged by her Department in 2010-11; what Puar, Ned Helme, Nigel Fryer, Oliver guidance her Department uses in commissioning external Willmott, Philip Moser, Richard Cole, legal advice; and if she will publish (i) the names of Richard Griffiths, Robert Hodgkinson, Robert each external (A) solicitor and (B) barrister engaged by Palmer, Robert Wastell, Sarah Moore, Sasha her Department in 2010-11 and (ii) the sums paid in Blackmore, Sean Brunton, Simion Perkins, Stephen Tromans, Andrew Marshall, Angus each case. [72567] McCulough QC, Elisa Holmes, Hugh Mercer, James Eadie QC, Julie Anderson, Kassie Smith,KateGrange,SarahFord,Simon Richard Benyon: DEFRA does not keep a central Phillips QC, David Anderson QC, Derrick record of hourly rates paid to external solicitors and Wyatt QC, Ian Rogers, Philip Coppel, Russell barristers and cannot therefore provide an accurate figure Fortt, Tim Buley, James Maurici for the average rates without incurring disproportionate cost. £25,000 to £29,999 Brendan McGurk, Thomas Payne, Tim Eicke Where possible, DEFRA instructs barristers from £30,000 to £34,999 Iain Quirk the Attorney-General’s panel of Counsel, which is made £50,000 to £54,999 Hannah Willcocks up of three London Panels and a Regional (non-London) Panel. The rates agreed for each panel are shown in the These lists are not exhaustive and could only be following table. The panel system is supplemented by confirmed to be comprehensive at disproportionate cost. the retention of two First Treasury Counsel to advise In compliance with the Government’s Transparency and represent Government in particularly complex and Agenda, DEFRA has published information about sensitive matters. The First Treasury Counsel hourly payments over £25,000 on its website. rate is also shown in the table. When a Queen’s Counsel Details of all barristers who are currently on the is engaged the rate is negotiated on a case by case basis. Attorney-General’s panels are available from the Treasury Solicitor’s Department website at: Counsel Hourly rate www.tsol.gov.uk/attorney_generals_panel_of_counsel.htm First Treasury Counsel £220 A panel £120 Dolphins B panel £100 C panel 1£60 to £80 Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Regional panel 1£60 to £110 1 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent Depending on experience. assessment she has made of (a) dolphin and (b) whale For non-contentious matters, the Department wherever catching undertaken by other EU member states. possible instructs solicitors’ firms selected from a panel. [75045] This panel has been established under a framework agreement to provide legal services to Government bodies. Richard Benyon: The EU position is clear: within For litigation, the Department uses solicitors from the Community waters all whales, dolphins and porpoises Litigation Catalogue wherever possible. The use of solicitors (cetaceans) are strictly protected from deliberate disturbance, from outside the framework agreement is only permitted capture or killing. where there are no suitable solicitors available from the The Faroe Islands and Greenland, Crown territories Litigation Catalogue. of Denmark, are not bound by EU legislation put in In commissioning external legal services DEFRA place to protect cetaceans. refers to guidance produced by the Attorney-General’s In 2010 around 900 pilot whales, 21 Risso’s dolphins Office on the use of the private sector for Government and 14 White-sided dolphins were killed in the Faroe legal work. On the use of counsel, Government Legal Islands. Greenland’s annual aboriginal subsistence whaling Service (GLS) guidance, DEFRA guidance and Treasury quota compromises 178 Minke, two Bowhead, 10 Fin Solicitors Guidance on purchasing external legal services and nine Humpback whales. is used. We will continue to work hard with other EU Member The following two tables contain details of the solicitors States to ensure the EU takes a strong, pro-conservation and barristers to whom the Department made payments position within the International Whaling Commission, in 2010-11, in bands of £50,000 (the first table) and and ensure that the moratorium on commercial whaling £5,000 (the second table). is not undermined. 291W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 292W
Fish Farming Government are taking other measures, such as the development of responsibility deals and the waste and Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for recycling collection commitments, to make it easier for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment people to do the right thing with their waste. she has made of the environmental impact of the Government action to reduce fly tipping includes: oyster dredging industry. [75078] (a) introducing stronger powers for local authorities and the Environment Agency to stop, search and seize vehicles suspected Richard Benyon: The oyster industry is managed on a of involvement in waste crime; site by site basis and assessments are made at this level. (b) working with local authorities and the Environment Agency No national research has been undertaken on the to strengthen enforcement of the waste carrier regime; environmental impact of the oyster dredging industry. (c) considering whether fines for fly tipping are sufficient to act While overexploitation of oysters could be a contributing as a deterrent to fly tipping; factor leading to declines in oyster populations in certain (d) ensuring more effective intelligence sharing between DEFRA areas, Inshore Fisheries Conservation Authorities byelaws and its partners including the Environment Agency, local regulate the industry at a local level, ensuring it is authorities, the police and other agencies; and managed sustainably. (e) working with private landowners to increase reporting of fly tipping on their land, sharing best practice and considering Impacts to the wider environment as a result of the the options for reducing the burden for those affected. passage of towed gear on the sea bed will vary according to the level of sensitivity of the habitat Food: Nature Conservation Peer-reviewed assessment of the specific impacts of oyster dredges is limited although evidence suggests the Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for immediate impacts of towed gear use would likely include Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment a reduction in the biomass of emergent epifauna and she has made of the potential effects of trends in wild large infaunal species (should these be present), short-term food foraging on habitat conservation and biodiversity. resuspension of silts and the sorting of sediment particles. [75838] However, as oysters tend to sit oh the surface, rather than recessed (as with scallops), oyster dredges are Richard Benyon: There has been no formal assessment. designed to scrape the surface of the bed rather than However, species targeted for wild food foraging are penetrate it and are light relative to other dredges. generally common and widespread, and it is considered highly unlikely that present levels of foraging are having Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for any impact on their distribution or population size. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment Species known to be at particular risk (including she has made of the risk of potential pathogens picking in the case of plants) receive special protection spreading from fish farms into natural fish stocks. through the provisions of the appropriate schedules of [75079] the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. There are particular concerns about high levels of Richard Benyon: Government veterinary and fish foraging for edible fungi, but foraging in line with ″The scientists regularly review risks, They are aware of the Wild Mushroom Pickers’ Code of Conduct″, produced potential for transfer of disease pathogens from farmed by the British Mycological Society, is acceptable and to natural fish stocks, although studies so far have not unlikely to lead to species declines. found any evidence that transfer in practice takes place. Any proposals for large-scale wild food foraging on All fish farms in England are authorised by the Fish sites of special scientific interest in England would Health Inspectorate of the Centre for Environment, require consent from Natural England. Fisheries and Aquaculture Science (CEFAS), a DEFRA agency. Authorisation sets out which species may be Food: Waste farmed. A consultation process with conservation and environmental bodies is undertaken prior to the Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for authorisation of a new farm or a change to farming Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps her practices. Fish farms are ranked according to the risk Department is taking to reduce the level of food waste. they pose of disease spread, and this ranking dictates [75947] their disease inspection regime. Fish farms are required to operate to an approved biosecurity measures plan. Richard Benyon: The Government’s Review of Waste Fly-tipping Policy in England, published in June, outlines our long-term aim to reduce food waste substantially. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for To do this the Government will continue to help Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps her businesses and consumers waste less food by sharing Department is taking to reduce the incidence of fly insight, evidence and best practice, improving product tipping. [74596] design and retail and supply chain practice, engaging consumers and encouraging local partnership approaches Richard Benyon: The Government Review of Waste to food waste prevention. For example, we recently Policy in England, published in June 2011, sets out a published new guidance for food and drink manufacturers number of measures to encourage compliance with on the application of date marks to food. waste legislation and ensure that the sanctions available We will continue to work with food retailers and act as a real deterrent to those responsible for waste manufacturers via the Courtauld Commitment, and crime, including fly tipping. At the same time the will develop a new responsibility deal with the hospitality 293W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 294W and service sectors to reduce food waste. We will also British Waterways stringently monitors the asset lead by example by tackling food waste across the condition of its structures, including bridges, and applies public sector estate. a risk-based prioritisation of repair and renewal expenditure. It estimates that the annual cost of maintenance and Inland Waterways: Bridges repairs to keep its bridges at a steady state would be £3.3 million in England and Wales. Andrew Miller: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many bridges Andrew Miller: To ask the Secretary of State for cross inland waterways managed by British Waterways. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the cost of [75858] repairs and maintenance to bridges that cross inland waterways managed by British Waterways that carry Richard Benyon: A total of 2,888 bridges cross inland highways that are the responsibility of the (a) Highways waterways managed by British Waterways in England Agency and (b) other highways authorities has been in and Wales. each of the last 10 years; and what the distribution of those costs between British Waterways and the respective Andrew Miller: To ask the Secretary of State for highways agency has been. [75861] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many of the bridges that cross inland waterways managed by British Waterways carry highways that are the responsibility of Richard Benyon: Neither the Department for (a) the Highways Agency and (b) other highway Environment, Food and Rural Affairs nor the Department authorities. [75859] for Transport retains information centrally in relation to the ownership or maintenance of local highway Richard Benyon: There are 202 bridges in England authority bridges that cross inland waterways managed that cross inland waterways (canals and certain rivers) by British Waterways. This information could be provided managed by British Waterways and carry highways that only at a disproportionate cost. are the responsibility of the Highways Agency. The The Highways Agency does not hold records of Highways Agency does not hold figures for Wales. maintenance costs on individual canal and river bridges Some bridges over British Waterways’ navigations over the last 10 years for which it is responsible. are also owned by Network Rail, London Underground British Waterways’ expenditure on major repairs to and other transport undertakings, and some are privately bridges in England and Wales for the last four years is owned. British Waterways also owns many such bridges. shown in the following table. In addition to these figures, Neither DEFRA nor the Department for Transport British Waterways expends £205,000 each year on routine holds information on these bridges and obtaining it maintenance. would incur disproportionate expense. Expenditure (£ million) Andrew Miller: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment 2007-08 0.544 she has made of the need for repair and maintenance to 2008-09 1.421 bridges that cross inland waterways managed by British 2009-10 0.321 Waterways which carry highways that are the responsibility 2010-11 1.150 of (a) the Highways Agency and (b) other highway authorities; and what estimate she has made of the cost of such works in each case. [75860] International Whaling Commission Richard Benyon: The bridges that are the responsibility of the Highways Agency and cross inland waterways Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for managed by British Waterways are subject to a regular Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps her regime of structural inspections. General inspections Department is taking to support the International Whaling are carried out every two years and more detailed Commission to conserve and manage whale stocks. principal inspections are undertaken every six years. [75265] These inspections record the condition of the bridges, identifying the extent and severity of any defects in the structural components. Where the defects are significant, Richard Benyon: The UK position on whaling is plans for remedial maintenance works are developed, clear; we strongly support the International Whaling and where they are of sufficient priority, funding is Commission (IWC) moratorium on commercial whaling allocated and repairs undertaken by the Highways Agency’s and oppose all forms of whaling, other than limited Maintenance Agents. There are no separate available whaling operations by indigenous people for subsistence estimates of maintenance costs for canal and river purposes to meet a defined and substantiated need. bridges. I attended this year’s IWC meeting in June to demonstrate Neither the Department for Environment, Food and the UK Government’s commitment to the work of the Rural Affairs nor the Department for Transport retains IWC and our support for the moratorium on whaling. information centrally in relation to the ownership or At the meeting, the UK supported the creation of maintenance of local highway authority bridges that whale sanctuaries and the need for improved welfare cross inland waterways managed by British Waterways. and conservation efforts to improve cetacean populations. This information could be provided only at a The UK is also financially contributing to the work of disproportionate cost. the IWC on the protection of small cetaceans. 295W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 296W
Pesticides focus on ’non-Apis bees’. This forum recognised that the risk assessment scheme for honeybees did not cover Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for non-Apis bees, and that the risk assessment approaches, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs by what methodology studies and associated trigger values need to be further her Department applies the precautionary principle in developed. Work is also ongoing with the Organisation Article 174 of the EC Treaty in relation to pesticide for Economic Co- operation and Development (OECD). approvals; and if she will make a statement. [70772] on ’other pollinators’ under the Pesticides Effects on Insect Pollinators (PEIP) initiative. Government scientists Richard Benyon: Commission Communication (2000) and officials are already actively engaged in these major 1, of 2 February 2000, outlines the European Commission’s international initiatives. approach to using the precautionary principle and The new pesticides marketing Regulation (Regulation establishes Commission guidelines for applying it, among 1107/2009) introduces a requirement for consideration other aims. This communication stresses the need for of the impact on biodiversity and the ecosystem as part the precautionary principle to be considered within a of the approval criteria for active substances, as well as structured approach which is made up of risk assessment, other new proposed data requirements. The European risk management and risk communication. In the Food Safety Authority (EFSA) are to produce revised communication the Commission recognises that one guidance on aquatic ecotoxicology (including biodiversity way of applying the precautionary principle is through consequences) by 2014. Other aspects of biodiversity the Community rules for prior approval of certain will be addressed as relevant guidance (eg terrestrial products before they are placed on the market, such as ecotoxicology) is revised or developed by EFSA, and in the case of pesticides. the SETAC and OECD work is expected to feed into Following the approval of pesticide active substances this. under the EU regulatory regime, pesticide products are authorised in the UK under the EU rules for national Mr Meacher: To ask the Secretary of State for authorisations. As part of this process, the Chemicals Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what research Regulation Directorate (CRD) of the Health and Safety she has (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated in the Executive (the Government body responsible for regulating monitoring of residues of glyphosate and glufosinate pesticides) carries out checks to ensure the risks that ammonium in crops such as wheat, soya, maize and can arise from the use of these products are not oilseed rape which are directly sprayed with such herbicides unacceptable. This will include an assessment of the over the top of the growing crops and food/feed ingredients; toxicity of each product and the ways in which spray and what the maximum residue limit is for these herbicides operators, the public or environment may be exposed to for each crop which is directly sprayed over the top of it. CRD routinely restrict the way products can be used the growing crop. [75810] (e.g. specifying dose rates, timing and place of application) Richard Benyon: The Chemicals Regulation Directorate to ensure protection of human health and the environment. (CRD), which is part of the Health and Safety Executive Pesticide users are also legally obliged to take all reasonable (HSE), is responsible for commissioning and publishing precautions to protect the health of human beings, the results of the national pesticide residue testing creatures and plants. As part of its role, CRD considers programme in the UK. Around 3,500 samples of food relevant scientific studies as they arise to see if they are are tested for a range of pesticides. All results are relevant to UK authorisation, and continues to keep published on the HSE’s website. abreast of research and developments in other EU member states and elsewhere. Field crops are not tested. The monitoring programme tests mainly fresh food and some processed food at the Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for point which it is available to consumers on the market Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what changes for a range of pesticides. The table summarises when have been made to pesticide risk assessment for CRD last monitored food from the crops listed for the pollinators test processes since the publication of her pesticides and gives the maximum residue levels (MRLs). Department’s report, Are pesticide risk assessments for Due to the analytical difficulties associated with testing honeybees protective of other pollinators, in 2008. for Glyphosate and Glufosinate, analytical research (Project [70773] PS 2538) was undertaken and completed in 2009 to validate the analytical methods in a range of food Richard Benyon: As pesticides are subject to a European including cereals and cereal based products. The outcomes regulatory regime, Ministers are keen that these issues of this research are published on the Science and Research are addressed through collaborative working across the section of the DEFRA website. international arena. Since this work was published, it Maximum residue levels are established only for food has been considered in an international forum (the which is sold for human consumption. However, when Society of Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry) MRL’s are set for food products derived from animals, (SETAC) which is developing the pesticides risk assessment the regulatory process takes into account the contribution for pollinators (honeybees and non-Apis bees) with a of any residues from the animal feed.
MRL (mg/kg) Survey results Survey Number of Commodity Glyphosate Glufosinate year Commodity Surveyed samples Glyphosate Glufosinate
Wheat 10 0.1 2009 Grain from farm store 72 Found in nine samples at Not sought levels ranging from 0.1 to 0.8 mg/kg 297W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 298W
MRL (mg/kg) Survey results Survey Number of Commodity Glyphosate Glufosinate year Commodity Surveyed samples Glyphosate Glufosinate
2010 Bread 216 Found in 23 samples at Not sought levels ranging from 0.2 to 0.9 mg/kg 2009 217 Found in 15 samples at levels ranging from 0.1 to 0.5 mg/kg 2008 216 Found in 45 samples at levels ranging from 0.1 to 0.9 mg/kg 2007 216 Found in 41 samples at levels ranging from 0.1 to 0.3 mg/kg 2006 216 Found in 20 samples at levels ranging from 0.1 to 0.4 mg/kg
Soya 120 12 2006 Soya pieces/tofu 60 Found in 11 samples at Not sought levels from 0.1 and 1.1 mg/kg Soya milk 60 Sought but not found 2011 Soya milk and other 80 Sought—Survey ongoing Sought. Survey soya products ongoing
Maize 1 0.5 Surveys have tested for range of pesticides but not glyphosate or glufosinate due to analytical capability at the time. Oilseed rape 210 25 1 MRL for soya bean 2 MRL for rape seed.
Rivers: Pollution Control Richard Benyon: DEFRA and Environment Agency officials are currently undertaking a review regarding Christopher Pincher: To ask the Secretary of State for the requirement to register. The review includes engaging Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps the with key players such as the Country Land & Business Environment Agency has taken to ensure that Association, the National Farmers Union and water standards are adhered to in respect of consents on companies etc., to develop proposals on an alternative package sewage treatment plants under its River Mease approach. Once the review has been completed we will Diffuse Water Pollution Plan. [75679] propose the way forward, probably around the turn of the year. In the meantime, the Environment Agency has suspended the registration system in England and there Richard Benyon: The River Mease Diffuse Water is no need for householders to register. Pollution Plan (DWPP) addresses diffuse water pollution from agriculture, small un-consented point discharges Sharks and other diffuse sources, such as runoff from roads or urban areas. It is not the purpose of the DWPP to Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for control consent standards from package treatment plants. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate The Environment Agency uses a risk-based approach she has made of the number of basking sharks in UK when assessing consent compliance at package sewage waters in each of the last five years. [75044] treatment plants. Where a detrimental effect on the environment is suspected, visits are made and samples Richard Benyon: The UK has not made an assessment of the effluent are taken for analysis. If the Environment of the basking shark population in any of the last five Agency finds that pollution of groundwater or surface years. water is being caused, or is likely to be caused, officials This is primarily due to the fact that, as the basking would initially discuss that with the permit holder to shark is a fish stock covered under the common fisheries seek improvements such as maintenance. If necessary policy, the International Council for the Exploration of the permit can be reviewed. the Sea (ICES) is responsible for providing the European Commission and member states with scientific advice on the basking shark population on a biannual basis. Septic Tanks We collect evidence of any strandings or by-catch of basking sharks under our domestic cetacean monitoring Mr Cox: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, programmes. Food and Rural Affairs what recent progress her In line with the ICES advice that the basking shark is Department has made on its review of the registration an inherently vulnerable species, and acknowledging of septic tanks. [74936] that as fisheries have ceased, detailed information on 299W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 300W population trends will be limited, this species is offered Gregory Barker: The State Pension Credit (Warm strong legal protection both domestically, within the Home Discount) Regulations 2011 allow for legal European Union and Internationally. information sharing between DWP and the energy suppliers The basking shark is offered protection from all to identify those on a subset of pension credit who are harm under our domestic Wildlife and Countryside or may be eligible for a rebate as part of the Core Group Act, is a prohibited species under the common fisheries of the Warm Home Discount Scheme. The participating policy (preventing fishing of the species) and internationally energy supply companies are required by law to provide is listed under both the Convention on the International a rebate to any Core Group customer notified to them Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) and the Convention by the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, on Migratory Species (CMS). the right hon. Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne). This is not capped by the energy supply companies. We have no evidence of significant adverse impacts on the species in our waters; however If this situation As a result, this winter Government expects that over changes we will look carefully at what additional measures 600,000 pensioners in receipt of pension credit guarantee are needed to best protect this vulnerable species. credit will get a rebate of £120 on their electricity bill. The number of pensioners assisted through the Core Group will increase over the further three years of the scheme as eligibility expands to include those who ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE receive the savings element of pension credit. By 2014-15, Government expects that over 1.3 million low income Carbon Emissions pensioners will receive a £140 rebate. For the Broader Group of the Warm Home Discount Angie Bray: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Scheme, suppliers have discretion over the eligibility and Climate Change if he will take steps to encourage criteria they use. They must target those in or at risk of the (a) EU delegation and (b) African group at the fuel poverty and their eligibility criteria must be approved United Nations Framework Convention on Climate by OfGem. Those eligible will receive a rebate on their Change to recognise the links between population growth, electricity bill. This is set at £120 in 2011-12, rising to carbon emissions and adaptation problems in order to £140 by 2014-15. Low income families and those with reach agreement on the use of climate funds for family long term illnesses, disabilities and the elderly may be planning and women’s education programmes. [76908] assisted. It is not possible to estimate the number of consumers eligible under the Broader Group, as eligibility Gregory Barker: The UK and EU are open to discussing will vary according to which energy supplier the consumer the linkages between mitigation, adaptation, family planning is registered with. The amount which the six participating and women’s education and climate finance under the energy supply companies must provide in the form of UNFCCC framework. rebates to the Broader Group will also increase across the four years of the scheme. It must be a minimum of Departmental Procurement at least £3 million in 2011-12, rising to £47 million in 2012-13 and £90 million in 2014-15. Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what the (a) date of Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for purchase, (b) amount and (c) supplier was of each Energy and Climate Change if he will take steps to transaction undertaken by his Department using the require energy companies to pay the warm home discount Government Procurement Card in 2008-09. [76909] to all their customers who are eligible to receive it as part of the core group or the broader group. [77018] Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) was created in October 2008 as a merger of elements of the Department for Business, Gregory Barker: The overall spending target for the Innovation and Skills (BIS) and the Department for the Warm Home Discount Scheme, set out in Schedule 1 of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA). For the Warm Home Discount Regulations 2011 (2011/1033), 2008-09, details of DECC’s GPC information was held is £1.1 billion over the four years of the scheme (2011-12 as a mixture of electronic and paper records by both to 2014-15). This represents a significant increase in BIS and DEFRA, depending on which Department activity and funding on the 2008-10 voluntary agreement cardholders previously worked for. Paper records have between the six major energy supply companies and been archived and would need to be retrieved and Government which was worth £375 million over three scrutinised to identify transactions relating to DECC. years. All transactions would need to be reviewed before Energy suppliers are required by Regulation 7 of the publication to redact personal or security related Warm Home Discount Regulations 2011 to provide information. It would incur disproportionate costs to the proscribed rebate to all Core Group customers who locate and analyse records. the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, the right hon. Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne), Energy: Prices notifies them of, unless they provide an exception, as set out by the Secretary of State under Regulation 8. As a Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for result, energy supply companies will be required to Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made provide a rebate of £120 to all customers notified to of the number of people eligible for the warm home them in the Core Group this winter. Government estimates discount who will not be paid the discount as a result that over 600,000 low income pensioners will be provided of some energy companies capping their expenditure with a rebate this winter. As the eligibility for the Core on the scheme. [77017] Group is widened, so the number assisted is expected to 301W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 302W increase over the subsequent three years of the scheme. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT For the Broader Group of the Warm Home Discount Scheme, suppliers have discretion over the eligibility Departmental Private Finance Initiative criteria they use. They must target those in or at risk of fuel poverty and their eligibility criteria must be approved Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for by OfGem. £3 million has been allocated for the energy Communities and Local Government if he will publish suppliers to provide £120 Broader Group rebates in the (a) cost, (b) date of commencement and (c) duration 2011-12. To ensure a smooth transition from the previous of each private finance initiative contract managed by Voluntary Agreement, £140 million has been allocated his Department. [76538] for Legacy Spending in 2011-12, for suppliers to continue Robert Neill: Information on projects that were signed to provide discounted and social tariffs. prior to 16 March 2011 is available on HM Treasury’s The level of expenditure required under the Broader website at: Group will increase with each scheme year. It will rise to http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/ppp_pfi_stats.htm £47 million in 2012-13, as spending on legacy tariffs In addition to listing the project name and responsible decreases, and to £90 million in 2014-15. Department the information available includes (a) the capital value of the asset and associated unitary charge Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for payments, (b) the date the contract was signed and (c) Energy and Climate Change pursuant to his contribution the operational period of the contract. of 19 October 2011, Official Report, column 945, on The Department provides updated information to energy prices, (1) whether his Department has made an HM Treasury annually for inclusion and publication on estimate of the total potential saving to the public if all their website. households saved £200 by switching energy supplier; [77089] Domestic Violence (2) what estimate his Department has made of the Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for number of households that could save £200 by switching Communities and Local Government what definition energy supplier; [77090] of domestic violence his Department uses; and whether (3) what the evidential basis is for his statement that there are any qualifications of that definition in respect people could save £200 by switching energy supplier. of particular services and processes for which his [77091] Department is responsible. [77001]
Charles Hendry: The savings households can make Andrew Stunell: My Department uses the current will vary depending on which supplier they are with, cross-government definition of domestic violence. It tariff they are on, payment method they choose and defines domestic violence as: region a customer is in. But Ofgem, in their Retail “any incident of threatening behaviour, violence or abuse (psychological, physical, sexual, financial or emotional) between Market Review, found that adults who are or have been intimate partners or family members, “Customers of the Big 6 that were already on dual-fuel direct regardless of gender or sexuality.” debit accounts, could have saved between £160 and almost £200 I am not aware of any qualifications of the definition over the course of 2010 had they switched to the cheapest in respect of public services or processes for which dual-fuel, direct debit accounts at the start of the year.” DCLG are responsible. They went on to report that Private Rented Housing “the savings are higher for customers on standard credit or on pre-payment meters.”1 Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Full details of Ofgem’s findings are available online Communities and Local Government whether he has at: any plans to bring forward proposals in respect of (a) http://www.ofgem.gov.uk//Markets/RetMkts/rmr/ rent levels, (b) security of tenure and (c) energy efficiency Documents1/RMR_Appendices.pdf of private sector accommodation. [76757] 1 Page 10—The Retail Market Review—Findings and initial proposals—Supplementary appendices. Grant Shapps: The current legislative framework is intended to provide a balance between rights and responsibilities for landlords and tenants. We therefore Nuclear Energy Co-operation have no plans to change tenure arrangements in the sector. Private rents are market led and, therefore, significantly driven by housing supply.Excessive regulation Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy would drive up rents and reduce choice for tenants. and Climate Change how much his Department has Rent controls, historically, resulted in the size of the contributed to the International Framework for Nuclear private rented sector shrinking from 55% of households Energy Co-operation in financial year 2011-12. [77362] in 1939 to just 8% in the late 1980s. Rent controls also meant that many landlords could not afford to improve Charles Hendry: The Department has made no financial or maintain their homes. contribution to the International Framework for Nuclear This Government are committed to seeing a major Energy Co-operation in FY 2011-12, an initiative which increase in the supply of new homes where they are provides a forum for cooperation between member states needed and wanted. Energy efficiency in the private on the peaceful uses of nuclear energy.The UK contributes rented sector is being tackled through measures in the actively to IFNEC, notably in the working groups. Energy Act including the Green Deal. 303W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 304W
Travellers: Dorset Argentina: Falkland Islands
Mr Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many (a) Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions permanent and (b) temporary Traveller sites there are he has had with his counterpart in Argentina on the in Dorset. [76954] Falkland Islands. [77078]
Andrew Stunell: The ″Count of Gypsy and Traveller Mr Jeremy Browne: I have not had any recent discussions Caravans″ undertaken bi-annually by local authorities with my Argentine counterpart on the Falkland Islands. in England and collated by my Department collects We have made clear that the UK has no doubt about its data on the number of Traveller caravans that are on sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, and that there authorised and unauthorised sites in England; it also will be no negotiations on sovereignty unless or until provides specific data on Traveller sites provided by the Falkland islanders so wish. local authorities and other registered providers. The latest published data, from the count undertaken Argentina: Freedom of Expression in January 2011, shows that in Dorset there were: 46 caravans on sites provided by local authorities and other Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for registered providers; Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions 22 caravans on authorised private sites, including eight caravans he has had with his counterpart in Argentina on freedom on private sites that have temporary planning permission; of expression. [77061] 16 caravans on unauthorised developments (on sites developed without planning permission); Mr Jeremy Browne: The UK discusses human rights 80 caravans on unauthorised encampments (on land not owned issues with Argentina, including freedom of expression, by the Travellers). within the framework of the annual EU-Argentina The count lists four sites provided by local authorities Human Rights Dialogue. The last such dialogue took and other registered providers in Dorset; these provide place in Buenos Aires in November 2010. 47 residential pitches. We do not collect data on the number of other types of site. British Indian Ocean Territory: Assets The “Count of Gypsy and Traveller Caravans” is available in the Library of the House. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his Department has spent on the maintenance of British FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE assets on the British Indian Ocean Territory in each of the last five years. [74246] Argentina Mr Bellingham: We only hold financial records for Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for the past three financial years and the current year. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment During this period, the British Indian Ocean Territory he has made of relations with Argentina; and if he will (BIOT) Administration spent £19,850.38 on the make a statement. [77065] maintenance of British assets on BIOT.
Mr Jeremy Browne: The UK values its relationship Iran: Capital Punishment with Argentina as an important international partner. We have a close and productive relationship on a range Mr Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State of issues including in the G20, on climate change, for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will sustainable development, science and innovation and urgently take up the case with the Iranian authorities of counter proliferation. Pastor Yousef Nadarkhani who has been sentenced to We have no doubt about our sovereignty over the death. [76956] Falkland Islands, and there cannot be negotiations on sovereignty until such a time as the islanders so wish. Alistair Burt: We are deeply concerned about the This position will not change, but we do not want the sentence handed out to Pastor Nadarkhani. In a statement single issue of the Falkland Islands to dominate our on 28 September 2011, the Secretary of State for Foreign bilateral relationship and continue to look for practical and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the ways to co-operate with Argentina on a range of South Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), deplored Atlantic issues. reports that Pastor Nadarkhani was being forced to recant his faith or face the death penalty. Foreign and Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Office officials have raised Pastor Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many Nadarkhani’s case with the Iranian authorities on a officials of his Department are stationed in Argentina. number of occasions. In addition, we have taken [77066] co-ordinated action with our EU partners to address Iran’s appalling human rights record, imposing travel Mr Jeremy Browne: There are approximately 65 staff bans and asset freezes on over 60 Iranians responsible stationed in Buenos Aires. This number includes UK for abuses, including Government Ministers and members based civil servants and staff employed locally. For of the judiciary. We and our EU partners will continue operational and security reasons we cannot provide a to raise Pastor Nadarkhani’s case and insist that his more detailed breakdown. sentence is overturned. 305W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 306W
Iran: Higher Education In line with its protocol the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) is co-operating with the Detainee inquiry Mrs Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for during its preparatory phase to undertake thorough Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make and rigorous searches to identify any relevant information representations to the Iranian authorities on the access which the inquiry requests under its terms of reference of the Baha’i community to higher education. [76945] and to provide it in an efficient manner. The FCO has already passed a substantial amount of background Alistair Burt: We have made representations to the documentation to the Detainee inquiry that is relevant Iranian authorities about this issue. The closure of the to its terms of reference. Baha’i Institute of Higher Education and arrest of Sri Lanka: Defence Equipment members of its staff form part of a wider pattern of harassment of Baha’is in Iran, including the imprisonment Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for of Baha’i leaders. We regularly raise these issues with Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs on which date the the Iranian authorities, including when I met the Iranian Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State’s recent visit chargé d’affaires in August this year. We will continue to Sri Lanka (a) started and (b) ended; which Sri to press the Iranian Government to accord all their Lankan Government Ministers and officials he met people the right to freedom of religion. With our EU during the visit; whether the export of military, security partners, the UK has taken co-ordinated action to and police equipment was discussed; and if he will address Iran’s human rights record, imposing travel make a statement. [76944] bans and asset freezes on over 60 Iranians responsible for human rights violations, including Government Alistair Burt: I arrived in Sri Lanka on 21 February Ministers and members of the judiciary. and left on 23 February. The Sri Lankan Government members I met were Economic Development Minister Israel: UN Resolutions Basil Rajapaksa, Defence Secretary Gotabaya Rajapaksa and Foreign Minister G.L. Peiris. I also met with members Mr Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State of the Tamil National Alliance and the United National for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make Party.The export of military, security and police equipment representations to Palestine’s Prime Minister Salam was not discussed. Fayyad on the need to begin discussions with the Israeli Government to agree a solution in the Middle East. Yemen: UN Resolutions [76983] Mr Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State Alistair Burt: We continue to believe that the best way for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he to achieve a lasting solution to the Middle East Peace plans to take at the UN and with his international Process is through negotiations. Our focus is on doing counterparts following the UN Security Council all we can to achieve this—putting pressure on both resolution calling for President Saleh to transfer power sides. The British Consul General to Jerusalem most to his deputy in the Yemen. [76982] recently discussed the issue with Palestinian Prime Minister Alistair Burt: The recent UN Security Council Resolution Fayyad on 6 October. on Yemen is an important step in increasing international We welcome the statement issued by the Quartet on pressure on President Saleh to begin political transition. 23 September. Getting the parties back to genuine We are looking at all available options on what we can negotiations is our primary objective. The statement do to further increase international pressure. We hope refers to the parameters set out by President Obama in to see positive political action in Yemen in the 30 days May, with which we agree. It also sets a clear timetable before the UN Secretary-General is due to report on for talks. Both parties stated their willingness to talk in implementation of the resolution. Alongside our EU, their speeches to the UN General Assembly. We are United States and regional partners, we will continue to urging both parties to respond positively to the Quartet’s put pressure on all sides to reach a political settlement invitation. as soon as possible, on the basis of the Gulf Co-operation Council initiative. A transitional Government of National Libya: Rendition Unity can then begin to address Yemen’s serious humanitarian, economic and security challenges. Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether his Department has made a submission to the Detainee inquiry in respect of allegations of UK involvement in TREASURY the rendition of individuals to Libya under the former Bank of England: Correspondence Libyan Government. [76805] Mr Blunkett: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Alistair Burt: The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of if he will publish (a) each item of correspondence and State for Justice, my right hon. and learned Friend the (b) minutes of meetings between his Department and Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), informed the House the Bank of England on credit easing. [76660] on 6 July 2011, Official Report, columns 99-100WS, that the terms of reference and a protocol for the Mr Hoban: HM Treasury is engaging with the Bank Detainee inquiry’s work had been agreed. In a public of England on credit easing as part of routine government statement on 5 September 2011, the inquiry confirmed business. There are currently no plans to publish items that it would be considering allegations of UK involvement of correspondence and minutes of meetings between in renditions to Libya as part of its work. HM Treasury and the Bank of England. 307W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 308W
Council Tax Abuse, Deposit Guarantee Schemes, Investor Compensation Schemes, Mortgages, Transparency, and a Financial Luciana Berger: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Transaction Tax. if he will take steps to compensate councils which Green Investment Bank experience funding losses which occur in (a) 2013-14 and (b) 2014-15, as a result of the freeze on council tax. [75889] Luciana Berger: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) whether the Government plans to use funds from Danny Alexander: The Government’s offer is a one-off general taxation to provide the initial capitalisation of grant, paid at the end of 2011-12, for local authorities the Green Investment Bank if he does not raise the that decide to freeze their council tax again in 2012-13. required funding from the sale of Government assets; Local authorities can choose when they spend this [77012] grant, and therefore how they profile it to help manage (2) what progress has been made on identifying the budgets in 2012-13 and beyond. No further funding is assets the Government plans to sell to raise funds for being provided to support the freeze offer. the initial capitalisation of the Green Investment Bank. [77031] Economic Situation: EU Countries Miss Chloe Smith: The Government are considering Richard Drax: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer a range of possible asset sales to fund the Green Investment if he will ensure that no further funding from the public Bank. To give information on individual asset sales or purse is provided in financial assistance to the eurozone. expected proceeds from those sales would prejudice the [76060] Government’s commercial position in ongoing and future sale processes. However, at an aggregate level, the Mr Hoban: The Government have made clear their Government are confident that the asset sales they are view that responsibility for sorting out the problems of considering will be sufficient to provide the £2 billion the euro area ultimately rests with euro area Governments. target. The UK’s exposure to euro area financial assistance Members: Correspondence packages is through the IMF, a bilateral loan to Ireland (reflecting the important economic relationship between Britain and Ireland), and the European Financial Mr Winnick: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Stabilisation Mechanism (EFSM). when the hon. Member for Walsall North will receive a reply to his letter of 27 September in respect of a The EFSM was established by the ECOFIN Council constituent, reference 18724/2011. [76953] of 9 May 2010. This is a commitment that was entered by the previous Government. Mr Hoban: I have replied to the hon. Member. The December European Council agreed that a permanent mechanism to safeguard the financial stability National Insurance Contributions of the euro area as a whole (European Stability Mechanism—ESM) will be established by ‘the member Mr Laws: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer states of the euro area’ from 2013. This mechanism will what his most recent estimate is of the annual revenue replace the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF) yield from employee national insurance contributions; and the EFSM. The Government have ensured that the and what proportion of that yield is derived from each UK will not be part of the ESM. age group. [76808] In addition, the Prime Minister sought and received commitments that once the ESM comes into existence, Mr Gauke: The amount of employee national insurance Article 122(2), on which basis the EFSM was established, contributions payable in respect of the 2009-10 tax year will no longer be used for such purposes. was £38.2 billion. The proportion of this yield derived from each age group is shown in the following table. Financial Services: EU Law Proportion of employee NICs Nicholas Soames: To ask the Chancellor of the Employee age group (percentage) Exchequer what European legislation and regulations Under 20 1 have been passed affecting the UK financial services sector in each of the last five years; and what legislative 20-30 17 proposals are being considered in the EU that may 30-40 27 40-50 30 affect the UK financial services sector. [76438] 50-60 21 Mr Hoban [holding answer 24 October 2011]: All Above 60 4 European legislation and regulations, including in each Estimates are based on a 1% sample of NICs and of the last five years, are publically available for free on PAYE service data. the European Union law website, EUR-Lex, http://eur-lex.europa.eu/ Private Finance Initiative Legislative proposals for the financial services sector which are currently being considered in the co-decision Neil Carmichael: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer process includes regulations and directives covering Short what steps he proposes to take in respect of reform of Selling, European Market Infrastructure, Capital the private finance initiative; and what timetable he has Requirements, Markets in Financial Instruments, Market set for this work. [76034] 309W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 310W
Danny Alexander: The Government have already taken forces under Ministerial control he estimates will a number of significant steps to improve the cost receive a pay increase of at least £250 in 2011-12. effectiveness and transparency of PFI; for example, [76271] abolishing PFI credits at the spending review 2010 to create a level playing field for all forms of public Danny Alexander: When considering the equalities procurement; introducing new assurance and approval impact of .the public sector pay freeze, the Treasury arrangements in April 2011 to strengthen the approval calculated the gender distribution of all public sector process of all projects; and, in July 2011, including PFI workers earning less than the full time equivalent of liabilities in the unaudited Whole of Government Accounts £21,000. The results, which are based on data from the to improve transparency. In addition, the Government Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings published by the have announced a plan to deliver £1.5 billion of savings Office for National Statistics, are shown in the following from the existing stock of PFI contracts in England. table: The Government are considering further measures to reform PFI and improve the way in which private Percentage finance is used to deliver public infrastructure. Female Male Total public sector 65.5 34.5 Private Sector: Job Creation Proportion earning less than £21,000 77.6 22.4 (Full Time Equivalent) Frank Dobson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Proportion earning more than £21,000 58.4 41.6 if he will take steps to ensure that statistics to show how (Full Time Equivalent) many of the additional jobs in the private sector that These figures suggest that a majority of those benefiting were previously in the public sector are collected. from the Government’s policy of protecting those earning [76473] less than £21,000 will be female. Miss Chloe Smith [holding answer 25 October 2011]: The Treasury did not calculate how many workers The independent Statistics Authority has powers to under ministerial control earn less than £21,000 as it is produce statistics, provide statistical services and promote not possible to separate this subset of workers from the statistical research.. It provides the top level of governance data. for the Office for National Statistics (ONS), replacing the oversight role previously performed by HM Treasury Social Mobility Ministers. HM Treasury, along with other users of statistics, Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer may steer the work of the ONS by contributing to what step his Department is taking to improve social consultations and users groups. mobility; and if he will make a statement. [76604] The ONS publishes quarterly statistics on public Danny Alexander: The Government’s Social Mobility sector employment, including levels of employment in Strategy “Opening Doors, Breaking Barriers: A Strategy the public and private sectors. The latest release can be for Social Mobility” was published in April 2011. found at: As the Social Mobility Strategy set out, fairness is a http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_232222.pdf fundamental value of the coalition Government. The Public Expenditure strategy aims to ensure everyone has a fair opportunity to fulfil their potential, regardless of the circumstances of their birth. Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Through the spending review and Budgets, the Treasury (1) what assessment his Department has made of which has worked with other Government Departments to Government Departments have accrued underspends in allocate the funds necessary for them to make progress 2011-12 to date; [76341] on their commitments to social mobility. (2) what estimate his Department has made of the We are also raising the personal allowance tax threshold level of departmental underspend in 2011-12 to date. to £10,000. The June 2010 Budget announced a £1,000 [76342] increase in the income tax personal allowance from £6,475 in 2010-11 to £7,475 in 2011-12. A further £630 Danny Alexander: The Office for Budget Responsibility increase in the personal allowance was announced in will publish its Economic and Fiscal Outlook on 29 Budget 2011, taking it to £8,105 in 2012-13. Together November which will include figures for expected these increases will benefit 25 million individuals, and departmental expenditure in 2011-12. The Treasury does take 1.1 million low income individuals out of tax from not publish a separate assessment of underspends. April 2012. Information on departmental underspends are published annually in the Public Expenditure Outturn White Paper, Stocks and Shares available online at: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/pes_peowp.htm Nicholas Soames: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he is taking to ensure the regulation of Public Sector: Pay exchange traded funds. [76129]
Claire Perry: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Hoban: Exchange Traded Funds are regulated by how many (a) male and (b) female public sector the Undertakings for Collective Investments in Transferable workers earning less than £21,000 per year in work Securities (UCITS) Directives. UCITS provides a 311W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 312W harmonised EU regulatory framework for collective Miss Chloe Smith: Land transactions should be recorded investment schemes designed to ensure these products at the Land Registry, unless land law does not require are appropriate for retail investors. such an entry in the register. The Government are aware of the recent developments Stamp duty land tax due on transfers at £125,000 or in the Exchange Traded Funds industry and the concerns less (residential) or £150,000 or less (non-residential) is around the suitability of some of these products for charged at 0% and transactions at £40,000 or less do not retail investors. The Government believes that it is require a return. The Government have no plans to important for the UCITS brand that products sold change the lower thresholds or return requirements at under the UCITS Directive are suitable for retail investors. this time. We are working closely with the Financial Services HMRC are able to compare their records with those Authority and Bank of England to analyse the risks of Land Registry in order to identify transactions where associated with these products and consider what regulatory a land transaction return should have been received but responses may be necessary. has not been, or where the stamp duty land tax due may have been under-declared. Taxation VAT: Tourism Stella Creasy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will estimate the number of taxpayers who will Ms Ritchie: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer enter the higher rate tax band as a result of receipt of whether he has made an assessment of the merits of London weighting payments in each London borough reducing the rate of VAT for tourism products in in (a) 2010-11, (b) 2011-12 and (c) 2012-13. [76775] Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement. [77016] Mr Gauke: The information requested is not available. Mr Gauke: No assessment has been made as the data to make such an assessment are not collected. Nicholas Soames: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he is taking to modernise and simplify the tax system. [77039] HOME DEPARTMENT Mr Gauke: The Government are taking action to modernise and simplify the tax system. A modern tax Alcoholic Drinks: Prices system should be efficient, predictable, simple, and fair. The Government have made a number of improvements Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the to the way in which they make tax policy, with consultation Home Department by what date she expects to have on policy design and scrutiny of draft legislative proposals implemented a minimum price for alcohol. [72989] as the cornerstones, further details may be found online at: James Brokenshire: In January 2011 the Government http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/ announced their intention to ban the sale of alcohol tax_policy_making_new_approach.htm below the cost of duty plus VAT. Subject to parliamentary Specific steps to modernise the tax system include procedures the ban will come into force on 6 April 2012. greater use of online filing by HM Revenue and Customs, It will be a new condition of the Mandatory Code of and publication of the Government’s Corporate Tax Practice in the Licensing Act 2003. The policy will Road Map, which is accessible online at: apply to all alcohol retailers in England and Wales. http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/corporate_tax_reform.htm In this document the Government have set out how it is Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for the reforming the business tax system to reflect the way that Home Department what steps she is taking to (a) companies operate in a global marketplace. reduce binge drinking and (b) end the sale of alcohol at low cost. [73229] The Government established the Office of Tax Simplification (OTS) on 20 July 2010 to provide independent James Brokenshire: There are a number of measures advice on simplifying the UK tax system. Following the already in place to combat binge drinking. Among the OTS review of the number and complexity of tax measures introduced in the Mandatory Code of Practice reliefs, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the right hon. of the Licensing Act 2003 is a ban on irresponsible Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), announced in Budget promotions and a requirement that smaller measures of 2011 his decision to abolish 43 tax reliefs. As part of the drinks are available. The Mandatory Code also requires second stage of its review of small business tax, the that free tap water is provided on request to customers OTS will look at improving tax administration for small where reasonably available. business, with recommendations to the Government for Budget 2012. The Government are also bringing in a number of measures in the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act to give local communities the tools and powers they Taxation: Property need to tackle late night problems associated with alcohol. In January 2011 the Government announced their Joseph Johnson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer intention to ban the sale of alcohol below the cost of what steps he is taking in respect of property transactions duty plus VAT. The policy will apply to all alcohol that are not recorded by the Land Registry or subject to retailers in England and Wales that sell alcohol for a property tax. [74310] consumption on and off the premises. 313W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 314W
Animal Experiments We strongly support the requirement for periodic thematic reviews and the United Kingdom contribution Mr Virendra Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State to the review will be considered at the appropriate time for the Home Department whether she plans to strengthen when consulted by the Commission. her Department’s existing regulations when transposing Counter-terrorism European Directive 2010/63/EU on protection of animals used for scientific purposes into UK law; and if she will make a statement. [76952] Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what recent discussions she has Lynne Featherstone: The principal objective for the had with the Secretary of State for Communities and transposition of European Directive 2010/63/EU on the Local Government on delivery of the Prevent Strategy. protection of animals used for scientific purposes is to [71366] comply with UK Treaty obligations to transpose the provisions of the new directive into UK legislation fully James Brokenshire: I have regular meetings with and appropriately. Where this requires the strengthening ministerial colleagues on a range of issues. of current legislation we will do so. Article 2 to the new Counter-terrorism: Finance directive allows member states to retain stricter national provisions in force on 9 November 2010. Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for The recent public consultation on the options for the Home Department what funding was allocated to transposition of the new directive which closed on groups working to prevent right-wing extremism and 5 September 2011 sought views on which measures terrorism in the financial year (a) 2010-11 and (b) should be retained in United Kingdom legislation using 2011-12. [72822] Article 2. We are now analysing the responses to the consultation and will announce decisions on options in James Brokenshire: The new Prevent strategy published due course. earlier this year addresses all forms of terrorism, including right wing terrorism. But it is clear that Prevent work Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home must be targeted against those forms of terrorism assessed Department what assessment she has made of the to pose the greatest risk to our national security. Currently, effects on the frequency of (a) inspections and (b) use the greatest threat comes from al-Qaeda, and those they of restrictions on the use of cats, dogs and horses for inspire. scientific experimentation of the transposition into UK Law of the EU Directive on the protection of animals The Home Office did not allocate funds in either of used in scientific procedures. [76976] these financial years to any groups specifically to prevent right-wing terrorism or extremism. Some police forces may have directly engaged groups specifically to prevent Lynne Featherstone: The public consultation on the right-wing extremism. options for transposition of the European Directive 2010/63/EU on the protection of animals used for scientific Crime: Disability purposes invited views on the system of inspection which would best meet UK needs and the absence of special protection for cats, dogs and equidae for scientific Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for the experimentation. Home Department what steps the Government Equalities Office is taking to prevent disability hate crime. [75551] We are now analysing the responses to the public consultation on the options for transposition. This will Lynne Featherstone: Hate crime, including targeting a include the frequency of inspections of establishments person because of their perceived disability, is wholly designated under the Animals (Scientific Procedures) unacceptable. The Government have been clear that Act 1986 and restrictions on the use of cats, dogs and those who commit these sorts of crimes must be challenged horses for scientific experimentation. We will publish a and punished. summary report by the end of 2011. Legislation already provides the courts with powers to increase the sentence for any offence aggravated by Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for the hostility towards disability, under section 146 of the Home Department how the Government will be carrying Criminal Justice Act 2003. out the thematic review process outlined in EU Directive 2010/63/EU; and when she expects the review of specific However, we are committed to doing more to support experiments involving animals with a view to replacement and protect victims. That is why the coalition’s Programme with non-animal methods to begin. [77049] for Government included a commitment to improve the recording of such crimes. Lynne Featherstone: Article 58 of European Directive Working with the Association of Chief Police Officers 2010/63/EU on the protection of animals used for scientific and other partners, including disabled people’s purposes requires the Commission to conduct periodic organisations, we are encouraging the reporting of all thematic reviews where appropriate of the replacement, hate crime. This will give us a clearer picture of local refinement and reduction of the use of animals in patterns and trends in disability hate crime, helping the procedures, paying specific attention to non-human police to target their resources more effectively and primates, technological developments and new scientific ensure better protection for repeat and vulnerable victims. and animal welfare knowledge. The Commission is to The Equality and Human Rights Commission’s Inquiry conduct these periodic thematic reviews in consultation into disability-related harassment sets out a number of with member states and other stakeholders. recommendations, and we will respond in due course. 315W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 316W
The Government are also considering the Nick Herbert: I understand from the Metropolitan recommendations from the recent Equality and Human Police Service that it estimates that a maximum of 9,000 Rights Commission’s Inquiry into disability-related police officers will be needed for Games-related duties harassment. in London on days of peak demand during the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games. Police Community Drugs: Misuse Support Officers (PCSOs) will continue to work across London during the Games period. Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for the The overall number of police officers and PCSOs Home Department what recent representations she has active in London during the summer of 2012 is a matter received on the effectiveness of the provisions of the for the Metropolitan Police Commissioner and the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971; and what plans her Department Commissioner for the City of London Police, and the has to draw up another drugs strategy following the relevant police authorities. drugs strategy it published in 2010. [72964] Rape: British Nationals Abroad James Brokenshire: The Secretary of State for the Home Department, my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), receives numerous Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for the correspondence on the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. Home Department (1) what information her Department Drugs are illegal under the Act because they are harmful— holds on the average length of time taken for rape cases they destroy lives and cause untold misery to families involving a British citizen in which the alleged offence and communities. took place outside the UK to reach a conclusion; [75363] The Government’s 2010 Drug Strategy is much more ambitious in its approach to drugs under three overarching (2) how many files relating to rape cases (a) aims to reduce demand, restrict supply and build recovery involving British citizens overseas and (b) in the UK in communities. We are committed to review the strategy have been lost by the Serious and Organised Crime annually. The first review will be published in March Agency in each of the last five years; and if she will 2012. The current strategy will continue until 2014-15. make a statement; [75210] (3) what information her Department holds on the Police: Bureaucracy average length of time taken for the case file for rape cases involving a British citizen in which the alleged Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for the offence took place outside the UK to be passed to the Home Department if she will estimate the number of other country’s police authorities by Interpol in the qualified police officers undertaking administrative UK; [75366] duties in each London borough between September (4) what information her Department holds on the 2008 and September 2011. [76776] average length of time taken for cases involving the alleged rape of a British citizen in (a) an EU country Nick Herbert: The information requested is not collected and (b) a country outside the EU to reach trial; centrally. [75384] (5) what information her Department holds on the Police: Manpower number of ongoing rape case files which have been lost by Interpol in the UK in each of the last five years; and Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for the if she will make a statement. [75414] Home Department how many (a) specialist domestic violence units and (b) full-time equivalent staff working Lynne Featherstone [holding answers 17 and 18 October in specialist domestic violence units there were in each 2011]: The Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA) region in (i) 2010-11 and (ii) 2011-12; and how many is not aware of any confirmed losses of rape case files such (A) units and (B) staff were budgeted for in (1) by itself or by the Interpol Bureau within SOCA. There 2012-13, (2) 2013-14 and (3) 2014-15; and if she will is one instance where the original case papers relating to make a statement. [76453] the UK end of an investigation into a sexual offence, alleged to have occurred overseas against a British Lynne Featherstone [holding answer 24 October 2011]: citizen, were not transferred to the relevant overseas The Home Office does not collect information on Specialist authority. Duplicate case papers have been transferred Domestic Violence units. to the relevant authority in the overseas jurisdiction. Specialist Domestic Violence Units are normally based An investigation, supervised by the Independent Police within public protection units in police stations. However, Complaints Commission, is currently under way into it is for individual police forces to decide whether they how this apparent failure occurred, including whether have a unit and, if they do, that resources are allocated the case papers were transferred between the relevant to it. agencies within the UK. Since May 2011, UK police forces have been able to Police: Olympic Games 2012 send “Transfer of Crime” material, including rape cases, directly to overseas partners on behalf of the Interpol Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Bureau. Prior to that, such material, initially processed the Home Department how many (a) police officers by police forces, was sent through the Interpol Bureau and (b) police community support officers she expects in SOCA. Once received by SOCA cases were normally to be operating in London during the 2012 Olympic processed in less than a week. Allegations of rape would and Paralympic Games. [77075] be treated as urgent. 317W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 318W
The Home Office does not hold any information on http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-us/Our-organisation/Ministers the average length of time taken for cases involving the This information covers meetings held since May 2010. alleged rape of a British citizen in an EU country or in countries outside the EU to reach trial or a conclusion. Terrorism Zimbabwe
Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many people have been International Development how many officials in his arrested for offences related to terrorism with a connection Department are based in Zimbabwe. [76740] to (a) Islamic extremism, (b) far right extremism and (c) dissident Irish republican groups in each year since Mr O’Brien: The Department for International 1997. [74748] Development does not publish the numbers of staff in each country where we operate, as this may represent a James Brokenshire: The Home Office publishes statistics security risk, especially to our staff serving in hostile on arrests and outcomes under the Terrorism Act 2000 environments or fragile states. (Operation of Police Powers under the Terrorism Act 2000 and Subsequent Legislation: Arrests, Outcomes and Stops and Searches). The relevant statistical bulletin Zimbabwe: Overseas Aid does not record statistics in the way requested, however, data in the current edition of the bulletin does show a Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for breakdown of arrests into International, Domestic and International Development how much aid his Department Northern Ireland related terrorism. This data is only expects to provide to Zimbabwe in 2011-12. [76741] recorded from 2005-06 to 2010-11. Table 1.07 of the current edition of the statistical Mr Andrew Mitchell: By 2015, we plan to have: bulletin (Operation of Police Powers under the Terrorism created 125,000 new jobs, provided almost 1 million Act 2000 and Subsequent Legislation: Arrests, Outcomes more people with access to clean water, helped 80,000 and Stops and Searches—published on 13 October more children to complete five years of education and 2011) records these offences as follows: given over 700,000 more women access to family planning. This assistance is delivered through trusted partners Arrests and charges Arrested: Number or persons such as UNICEF and the African Development Bank; Domestic1 138 none of it passes through the Government of Zimbabwe. Northern Ireland related2 47 The Department for International Development (DFID) International3 1,004 plans to provide £80 million of assistance in 2011-12 Not classified 32 which will support a range of development programmes Grand total 1,221 that directly benefit the poorest and most vulnerable 1 Far right extremism is recorded in this category. Zimbabweans. 2 Dissident Republican Groups is recorded in this category. 3 Islamic terrorism is recorded in this category. Offences under the domestic category refer to terrorist activity where there are no links to either Northern Ireland related or international terrorism. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Offences under the Internationals category refers to activity by an individual or a group of individuals linked to terrorist groups that are based outside the Arts: Broadband UK, who operate in and from third countries. A link to the latest edition of this publication is Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, provided as follows: Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment he has http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research- made of the potential contribution to the creative statistics/research-statistics/counter-terrorism-statistics/ industries of a high-speed broadband infrastructure in hosb1511/hosb1511?view=Binary the UK. [75743]
Mr Vaizey: There has not been a formal assessment INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT by this Department of the potential contribution of high-speed broadband to the creative industries. However, Social Enterprises it is the demand for rich content, delivered quickly and reliably, that is in part driving the uptake of faster Mr Thomas: Toask the Secretary of State for International broadband, and this will in turn enable the creative Development what discussions he has had about promoting sectors to provide the content people want in ever more social enterprises within his Department’s area of responsibility innovative and attractive ways. in each month since May 2010; and if he will make a statement. [77020] NESTA estimates that the provision of universal super-fast broadband could directly create 600,000 new Mr Andrew Mitchell: Information on a significant jobs, with £18 billion added to GDP.The indirect effects number of meetings between myself and external could be far larger. California is an economy approximately organisations; including charities, social enterprises and the size of the UK—it has been estimated that ultra-fast large and small and medium enterprises is available on broadband installation there could add $366 billion to the DFID website: economic output and create two million new jobs. 319W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 320W
Charitable Donations other pieces of secondary legislation were issued by his Department in (i) 1990, (ii) 1995, (iii) each year since Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, 1999 and (iv) 2011 to date. [76455] Olympics, Media and Sport whether he has considered the merits of managing the distribution of donation John Penrose: The number of statutory instruments funding from philanthropists to ensure an even distribution issued by the Department in the years my hon. Friend of funds across the regions of England. [77030] has requested can be found in the following table.
Mr Vaizey: No. The entire ethos of philanthropy is Total number of statutory built around the relationship between the donor and the instruments cause or institution they support, it is not for Government 1990 10 to seek to mediate that relationship, nor the funds 1995 16 involved. We are instead working to strengthen fundraising 1999 23 skills and boost levels of giving across all regions of 2000 19 England. We have established a £100 million match 2001 17 funding programme to create endowments and cultivate 2002 31 philanthropy. We have introduced new tax measures to 2003 28 incentivise legacy giving and gifts of pre-eminent objects 2004 32 to public collections. We have strengthened public 2005 49 recognition for those who give, including through the 2006 58 honours system. We have arranged master classes across the country by world-leading fundraisers, and we have 2007 65 published a Giving White Paper. All of these measures 2008 25 will benefit the entire country. 2009 25 2010 24 Departmental Assets 2011 225 1 Department formed in 1992. 2 Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, To date. Olympics, Media and Sport what assets with a value of No ministerial orders, or other pieces of secondary £250,000 or more his Department has bought since legislation, have been issued during the years my hon. May 2010; for what purpose; and if he will make a Friend has requested. statement. [77408] Education John Penrose: Since May 2010, the Department has bought no fixed asset with a value of £250,000 or more. Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Departmental Manpower Olympics, Media and Sport what discussions he is having with the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for and Skills on the role of creative education in (a) Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many civil colleges and (b) universities in the Government’s skills servants were (a) directly and (b) otherwise employed strategy. [77044] by non-departmental public bodies for which his Department is responsible (i) in 2000, (ii) in 2005, (iii) Mr Vaizey: The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, in 2007, (iv) in 2010 and (v) on the most recent date for Media and Sport, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Mr Hunt), regularly meets with the which figures are available. [76385] Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, John Penrose: The Department for Culture, Media the right hon. Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable), and Sport (DCMS) has responsibility for 42 arm’s to discuss cross-Departmental issues, including the role length bodies (ALBs) that help deliver its strategic aims of creative education in colleges and universities in the and objectives. The vast majority of those working for Government’s skills strategy. such organisations will be public servants rather than civil servants as they do not work directly for the Legal Opinion Crown. However, there may be occasions where civil servants are loaned or seconded from their parent Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for Department to work for an ALB for a limited period of Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many times time. his Department’s legal section provided legal advice to ALBs have authority to recruit according to their Ministers in (a) 2007, (b) 2009, (c) 2010 and (d) the individual business requirements. As such, the Department first six months of 2011. [76360] does not hold information relating to the number of civil servants employed by each of its ALBs, and to John Penrose: The Department does not record the provide it would incur disproportionate cost. number of times the legal team provide advice to Ministers. Advice is provided by departmental legal advisers on an Departmental Regulation ongoing basis, as and when necessary.
Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many (a) Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many statutory instruments, (b) ministerial orders and (c) officials in his Department were working in its legal 321W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 322W section in June 2011; and how many staff were working in the Tees valley have access to great museums. In in the legal departments of his Department’s agencies addition, the Arts Council will continue to fund and non-departmental bodies. [76392] Middlesbrough Institute of Modern Art as a National Portfolio Organisation. John Penrose: This Department is invoiced for solicitors from the Treasury Solicitor’s Department. In June 2011 Tourism: Manpower there were 20 permanent staff and one temp working in the legal section for this Department and its agency, the Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Royal Parks. Olympics, Media and Sport how many people were We do not hold this information for our arm’s length employed in the (a) creative industries, (b) tourism bodies. I have therefore asked their chief executives to industry and (c) heritage industry on the most recent consider the question raised by my hon. Friend and to date for which figures are available. [77026] write to him direct. Copies of the replies will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. Mr Vaizey: The Creative Industries Economic Estimates, December 2010, indicates that there are 1.3 million jobs Liverpool Vision in the creative industries and 2.3 million including other creative jobs in other industries: Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.dcms.gov.uk/images/research/ Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport if he will take steps CIEE_Full_Release_Dec2010.pdf to promote liaison between Liverpool Vision and the The latest Office for National Statistics figures show National Lottery Fund for the purposes of increasing that tourism directly supports 1.74 million jobs: funding for the creative and digital sector in Liverpool. http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/elmr/tourism-satellite-account/ [76910] 2008---the-economic-importance-of-tourism/index.html English Heritage’s publication ″Heritage Counts″: Mr Vaizey: Decisions on lottery funding are a matter for the individual lottery distributing bodies, acting http://hc.english-heritage.org.uk independently of Government. Although I have no states there are 9,500 people employed in the operation current plans to promote meetings of this kind, all of historic sites and buildings (2009) and 957.5 full-time lottery distributors engage with the sectors that they equivalent historic environment employees in local seek to fund, and provide opportunities for such authorities in 2011. 195,000 jobs are supported by heritage engagement. According to the Department for Culture, based tourism, according to “Heritage Lottery Fund Media and Sport’s lottery grants database, which uses Investing in success: Heritage and the UK Tourism information provided by lottery distributors, and is Economy”: searchable at: http://www.hlf.org.uk/aboutus/howwework/Documents/ http://www.lottery.culture.gov.uk HLF_Tourism_Impact_single.pdf Liverpool has received £14 million in lottery funding in UK Film Council: Apprentices the last two years. Museums and Galleries: Tees Valley Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many apprentices are Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for working in the UK film industry. [77024] Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport whether he has considered taking steps to protect museums in Teesside Mr Vaizey: The Department does not hold this that are under threat of closure arising from local information, although we are aware of the successful apprenticeship scheme run by Pinewood Film studios. authority spending reductions. [76340] From statistics collated by the Department for Business, Mr Vaizey: Decisions on the funding of local authority Innovation and Skills (BIS), we are aware that in 2009-10, museums are made at the discretion of local authorities, 30 people started apprenticeships in the ’Creative and and central Government cannot prescribe how these Digital Media’ apprenticeship framework. Apprenticeship decisions might be made. However, the Teesside museums data held by BIS is collected and reported by apprenticeship receive funding through the Renaissance in the Regions framework rather than sector. programme, central Government’s major funding UK Film Council: Manpower programme for regional museums. Until 2010-11, the Teesside museums received funding Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, as part of the Hartlepool Museums’ North East Olympics, Media and Sport how many people were Renaissance Hub. This funding stream has now ended employed in the UK film industry in (a) 1997, (b) but the museums will continue to receive funding during 2007 and (c) the most recent period for which figures 2011-12 as part of the transition to the new model of are available. [77025] Renaissance funding which will come into place in April 2012. Mr Vaizey: The British Film Institute (BFI) publishes From 2012-13 Renaissance funding will continue to the number of people employed in the UK film industry contribute to Teesside museums through museum within its Statistical Yearbook. The most recent of development support, national projects, and they will which was published on 1 August 2011 and can be be eligible to apply for museum’s strategic funds. found at the following link: The Arts Council, in its museum development role, http://www.bfi.org.uk/filmtvinfo/stats/BFI-Statistical- will work with local authorities to try and ensure people Yearbook-2011.pdf 323W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 324W
According to the yearbook, the following numbers of Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence (MOD)’s first people were employed in the UK film industry in (a) responsibility when procuring equipment is to provide 1997, (b) 2007 and (c) 2010 (the most recent date for the armed forces with the capabilities they require in an which figures are available). affordable and sustainable way. This is best achieved through open competition on the global market. Number employed Nevertheless, the MOD recognises that a vibrant and 1997 38,592 self sustaining UK-based Defence industry brings benefit 2007 41,343 both to the UK armed forces and the economy as a 2010 48,487 whole. We will publish a White Paper on technology, equipment, and support for UK defence and security later this year. This will set out the Government’s approach on these issues, including building on progress DEFENCE already made at making defence and security opportunities more accessible to a wider range of UK suppliers, Enterprise Zones particularly small and medium-sized enterprises.
Graham Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Procurement Defence what discussions (a) he and (b) his officials have had with their counterparts in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to discuss the enterprise Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence zone bid for Lancashire; and when such discussions how many contracts his Department has advertised on took place. [73793] the Contracts Finder website in each month since May 2010; what the value was of such contracts; what proportion Peter Luff: Ministry of Defence officials had discussions were awarded to (a) third sector organisations and (b) with officials in other Government Departments—including small businesses; and if he will make a statement. the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills—on [75129] the proposal to establish an enterprise zone in Lancashire prior to its announcement in October this year. Peter Luff: Contracts Finder went live on 1 January 2011 and the ability to advertise contract opportunities Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations was added on 31 March 2011. Statistics for contracts advertised are available from 31 March 2011 onwards, Mr Carswell: To ask the Secretary of State for and are given in the following table. Due to these being Defence how many helicopters have been damaged on contract opportunities, values are expressed within ranges. landing in Afghanistan. [76328] Number advertised Peter Luff: Since 2006, 42 UK helicopters have been Sub Official Journal damaged on landing in Afghanistan. Information prior of the European to 2006 was not recorded centrally and could be provided Union (OJEU) OJEU Opportunities only at disproportionate cost. In all cases where aircraft contracts (£10,000 (£101,323 to £400 suffer damage, the helicopter fleet is carefully managed to £101,323) million and above) to ensure that tasking continues to be met in accordance April 12 25 with operational priorities. May 23 28 BAE Systems June 49 24 July 17 22 Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence August 21 35 what discussions he has had with the Secretary of State September 34 19 for Business, Innovation and Skills on the effect on October 4 18 apprentices at BAE Systems of redundancies in that company. [73166] Since 1 January 2011 32 sub-OJEU contracts have been recorded as being awarded to Small to Medium Peter Luff: Ministry of Defence (MOD) Ministers Enterprises (SMEs). The award of contracts to third and officials hold regular discussions with their counterparts sector organisations is not captured. in the Department for Business Innovation and Skills The Ministry of Defence’s OJEU contract opportunities (BIS) on a range of issues, including on the defence are published in the Tenders Electronic Daily portal industry. The details of commercial decisions and their (the on-line version of Supplement S to the OJEU impacts on specific groups of employees are matters for containing calls for competitions and award notices), the companies concerned. MOD Ministers have discussed which feeds into Contracts Finder. Tenders Electronic the assistance BIS might offer with their counterparts Daily does not capture whether contracts are awarded on a number of occasions, although the decisions are to third sector organisations or SMEs. for BIS Ministers to determine. Business Interests Departmental Security
Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what steps his Department is taking to encourage tendering what steps his Department is taking to improve cyber- for his Department’s contracts by manufacturers based security in relation to his Department’s estate; and if he in the UK. [73154] will make a statement. [75128] 325W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 326W
Peter Luff: As we set out in the strategic defence and HMS Quorn security review, we attach a high priority to the cyber-defence HMS Pembroke of our systems. Our forces depend on computer networks, Royal Fleet Auxiliaries (RFAs) both in the UK and on operations around the world, RFA Lyme Bay—Landing ship dock but our adversaries present an advanced and rapidly developing threat to these networks. RFA Fort Victoria—Replenishment ship RFA Wave Knight—Fast Fleet Tanker We have established a new global operations security control centre to co-ordinate cyber defence of our systems RFA Diligence—Forward Repair Ship and we have commissioned a new monitoring system to Survey Vessel detect cyber-attacks against our systems. In addition, HMS Echo we are establishing the Defence Cyber Operations Group The SSN(T) submarines are also deployed periodically (DCOG). The group will mainstream cyber security in support of Operation Kipion. throughout the Ministry of Defence and ensure the coherent integration of cyber activities across the spectrum Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence of Defence operations. how many maritime assets were utilised from each Horn of Africa: Piracy platform during Operation Telic in each year between 2005 and 2010; and if he will make a statement. [75663] Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Nick Harvey: The number of individual maritime how much his Department has spent on anti-piracy assets, by platform, deployed in the Gulf region over measures off the Horn of Africa in each of the last the years 2005 to 2010 are given in the following table. three years; and what information his Department holds The units would have had a number of tasks at different on spending by (a) NATO and (b) the EU in the same times including Operation TELIC, supporting our period. [76763] international partners as part of our contribution to Gulf security, and counter piracy activities. Peter Luff: Anti-piracy measures off the Horn of Africa are among a number of concurrent tasks carried 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 out by the Royal Navy and supporting assets. Expenditure incurred on counter-piracy measures is not identified Carrier 013100 separately. T42 211200 The common costs (ie costs shared by NATO and Destroyer EU members, which are additional to the national T23 354876 contribution to the operation) for anti-piracy measures Frigate 172 202322 off the Horn of Africa in the last three years for NATO Frigate and the EU are as follows: MCMV1 033554 NATO counter-piracy LPH2 000010 Common cost (¤ million) LPD3 110010 2009 0.327 Survey 100100 Vessel 2010 0.568 RFA4— 00 l101 2011 0.850 Supply Ship EU—Operation Atalanta RFA— 111231 Common funding budget cost Fast Fleet (¤ million) Tanker 2009 8.3 RFA— 110111 2010 8.8 Forward Repair 2011 7.8 RFA— 001121 Landing Iraq: Peacekeeping Operations Ship Dock PCRF5 001100 Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence 1 Mine Counter Measure Vessel. how many maritime assets were used in Operation 2 Landing Platform Helicopter. 3 Landing Platform Dock. Kipion; and if he will make a statement. [75662] 4 Royal Fleet Auxiliary. 5 Primary Casualty Receiving Facility. Nick Harvey: As of 18 October 2011, the maritime Fleet submarines were also deployed periodically in assets deployed in support of Operation Kipion were as the Gulf region. follows. Type 23s Old Drill Hall HMS Somerset HMS St Albans Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for HMS Argyll Defence pursuant to the answer of 19 July 2011, Official Mine Counter Measures Vessels (MCMV) Report, column 868W, on Old Drill Hall, whether his HMS Middleton Department had title to the Weymouth Drill Hall prior HMS Ramsey to its sale in 1994. [76410] 327W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 328W
Mr Robathan: At the time of the sale it was understood Criminal Injuries Compensation that the Ministry of Defence (MOD) had title to the Old Drill Hall, Weymouth. The sale was registered by Andrew Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for the Land Registry as in MOD ownership. Justice how much criminal injuries compensation was RAF Lossiemouth paid to convicted offenders in 2010-11. [68977] Mr Djanogly: Out of a total of £271.6 million paid by Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority in 2010-11, Defence pursuant to the answer of 18 October 2011, at least £15.2 million was paid to people with unspent Official Report, column 878, on military bases, when he convictions. These figures only reflect cases where CICA expects the more detailed planning for RAF Lossiemouth reduced the award due to unspent convictions, which support for Typhoon operations to be complete. [76407] the current compensation scheme says they must do. But there are cases still being considered under previous Nick Harvey: The detailed planning for RAF schemes that did not make such reductions compulsory, Lossiemouth support for Typhoon operations is currently so the real figures are likely to be higher. expected to be complete in 2012. Syria: Military Aid Departmental Interpreters
Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Defence whether the UK has provided any support to what standards in respect of qualifications or experience Syria in respect of (a) internal security training, (b) of individuals providing interpretation services for his public order training and (c) sniper training since May Department (a) are applied at present and (b) were 2010; and if he will make a statement. [76646] applied in October 2010. [76819]
Peter Luff: The UK has not provided any support to Mr Blunt: The qualifications and experience required Syria in respect of internal security training, public for individuals providing interpreting services are the order training or sniper training since May 2010. same now as they were in October 2010. That is, wherever possible, interpreters should be registered on the National Register for Public Service Interpreters (NRPSI). To gain registration, they must be able to demonstrate they JUSTICE are qualified in accordance with the entrance requirements Alternative Business Structures of NRPSI.
Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Domestic Violence when he expects to lay before Parliament legislative proposals to designate the Solicitors Regulation Authority Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for as a licensing authority for alternative business structures. Justice what definition of domestic violence his Department [76955] uses; and whether there are any qualifications of that definition in respect of particular services and processes Mr Djanogly: The order to designate the Law Society for which his Department is responsible. [77011] as a licensing authority for alternative business structures can only be made once there is a body in place with the Mr Djanogly: As a member of the Inter-Ministerial power to hear appeals against its licensing decisions. Group on Violence Against Women and Girls, the Subject to parliamentary approval of the draft order to Ministry of Justice supports the general definition of establish the appeals mechanism, I expect the designation domestic violence as agreed by that group in 2004, order to be laid in time for the Law Society (via its which is: regulatory arm, the Solicitors Regulation Authority) to “any incident of threatening behaviour, violence or abuse become a licensing authority by the new year. (psychological, physical, sexual, financial or emotional) between adults who are or have been intimate partners or family members, Crime: Victims regardless of gender or sexuality.” This current cross-government definition is also quoted Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice in the guidance manual for Specialist Domestic Violence what steps he is taking to improve services provided by Court systems for partners, including the independent the police for victims of crime. [71112] domestic violence advisers, to determine how they will identify domestic violence cases. Mr Blunt: The Government are determined to ensure Part 4 of the Family Law Act 1996 which provides for that services for victims are effective, efficient and easily civil remedies against domestic violence, does not specifically accessible and are currently undertaking a review of use the term “domestic violence”. Under that legislation, victims’ services and compensation. This work includes orders can be obtained to protect a person “associated” looking at the effectiveness of the Victims Code, which with the alleged perpetrator from “molestation”. applies to the police as well as to other criminal justice Molestation is not defined but covers a wide range of agencies. We will consult on our proposals later this conduct including but not limited to physical violence year. (for example, it would include pestering and harassing a Despite substantial pressures on Government spending person). “Associated persons” is defined in the Act and we have maintained funding of approximately £50 million covers a very wide range of relationships, including to the victims’ voluntary sector this year. “intimate personal relationships” of significant duration. 329W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 330W
Similarly, the pre-application protocol for family that it is inappropriate; and they will also seek to widen mediation information and assessment meetings which the category of defendants who can challenge orders in came into effect on 6 April simply sets out that if a a court in their own jurisdiction. client has made an allegation of domestic violence (ie they have been subjected to any incident of threatening John Glen: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice behaviour, violence or abuse be it psychological, physical, what assessment he has made of the likely effects of sexual, financial or emotional) against another party implementation of the proposed EU Regulation creating and this has resulted in a police investigation or the a European Account Preservation Order on the UK’s issuing of civil proceedings for the protection of any business rescue culture. [76449] party within the last 12 months then that client will be exempt from the need to attend a mediation information Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Government are aware from and assessment meeting. the results of their recent consultation that the The Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Commission’s proposal could, if implemented in their Bill employs a broad definition of ″abuse″ in providing current form, have a significant effect on those companies for legal aid to be available for private family law cases in the process of business rescue. Measures to improve involving domestic violence or child abuse, and for the protection of companies in financial distress will be cases relating to abuse of a child or vulnerable adult. one of the Government’s priorities during the negotiations. The definition in the Bill would not exclude from scope any of the types of abuse covered by the general definition Kennet Prison of domestic violence agreed by the Inter-Ministerial Group. To avoid creating an incentive for false allegations, Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice applicants for funding will be required to provide objective whether he plans to convert HMP Kennet to a evidence of domestic violence, as set out in the category D prison. [76912] Government’s response to the consultation “Proposals for the reform of legal aid in England and Wales”. The Mr Blunt: NOMS are committed to making the most circumstances that would be accepted as evidence of effective use of the estate to support prisoners’ needs abuse will turn on the application by the courts, prosecutors and are continuing to develop our approach to managing and other agencies of their existing criteria. the prison population to deliver this. Any decisions on The National Offender Management Service (NOMS) the future role of establishments, including Kennet, will domestic violence abuse programmes are designed for be taken with regard to this. adult male offenders who are or were in intimate heterosexual relationships when the violence or abuse Offenders: Rehabilitation occurred. ″Violence″ in this context means any incident of threatening behaviour, violence or abuse (psychological, physical, sexual, financial or emotional) and in this Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice context an intimate relationship means a sexual relationship. (1) what targets for reducing re-offending will result in a payment to investors or operators in each of the payment by results pilots in operation; [76816] Insolvency: EU Action (2) what outcome is being measured in each of the payment by results pilots in operation. [76817] John Glen: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice if he will assess the merits of amending the proposed EU Mr Blunt: The information is as follows: Regulation creating a European Account Preservation (i) For the Social Impact Bond at HMP Peterborough, the Order to (a) widen the exemption granted to Government, together with the Big Lottery Fund, will pay for proceedings relating to the winding-up of insolvent results if the frequency of reconviction events for <12 month companies to include businesses in any collective sentenced prisoners released from HMP Peterborough falls by insolvency proceeding as set out in the European 10% in one of the three 1,000-offender cohorts, or by an aggregate Insolvency Regulation, (b) ensure that the provision of of 7.5% across the three cohorts together, compared to matched a security deposit by the claimant is a requirement in control groups. If these thresholds are not achieved, no payment will be made. The frequency of reconviction events is the number every case rather than a matter left to the discretion of of times an offender is convicted at court during the 12 months the granting court and (c) enable a business subject to following release from prison. a European Account Preservation Order to challenge (ii) The success criteria adopted for the pilot at HMP Doncaster the order in a court in their own jurisdiction rather is a binary measure based on offenders’ proven reoffending. than applying to the granting court. [76447] Reoffending will be measured using the reconviction rate, which is defined as the percentage of offenders that commit an offence Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Government’s decision about during the 12 months following discharge from HMP Doncaster, whether to opt in to this proposal will be announced and which is proved by a court conviction during this period or in shortly. Whether or not the Government decide to opt the subsequent six months. in at this point the UK will still be active in the negotiations. Once the results from each year of the pilot are available, Serco The Government do intend to seek the exemption of will only be able to retain 100% of the annual contract value if the one-year reconviction rate for that year has been reduced by at businesses in any collective insolvency proceeding as set least five percentage points against an agreed baseline, determined out in the EU Insolvency Regulation; they believe that by the 2009 reoffending data for the prison. the discretion of courts with regard to security should If this target is not met, 10% of the contract price will be be reduced and wish to align this provision more with reclaimed by the Ministry of Justice. If the target is exceeded, the current procedure in England and Wales where Serco will receive an additional payment for each extra percentage there is a presumption of the provision of security point reduction, up to a maximum reduction of 10 percentage unless a court considers in the circumstances of the case points. 331W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 332W
(iii) We are running Local Justice Reinvestment pilots in Greater Mr Blunt: As at 30 June 2011, the most recent available Manchester and in five London boroughs for two years—these data, there were (a) 332 and (b) 59 prisoners under pilots are also referred to as Local Approaches to Payment by sentence for murder and rape respectively in category D Results. No payments will be made to the test areas unless prisons in England and Wales. These figures include demand on the justice system, measured through Ministry of Justice agencies, falls by 5% or 10% against baseline for adult and those held in open prisons/YOIs and the relevant parts youth systems respectively. The reduction in demand will be of multi-site establishments. It does not include those calculated according to a series of demand metrics at the end of held in semi-open prisons or in small (under 50 place) each year of the two-year pilot, and used to determine any open units at closed prisons. payments to the pilot areas. The numbers of such prisoners held in category Police Stations: Prison Accommodation D/open conditions will depend on how many of those prisoners pass the necessary robust risk assessment and the availability of spaces in the open prison estate at any Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice one time. (1) how many (a) police station and (b) court cells meet minimum health and safety standards for use All murderers and many serious sexual offenders will during Operation Safeguard; [76820] be serving indeterminate sentences. Depending on the minimum sentence or “tariff” and the risk they pose, (2) what mechanisms are in place to ensure that such prisoners, move through their sentence via a series police station and court cell usage during Operation of progressive transfers into lower security establishments Safeguard meets health and safety standards; [76821] in the closed prison estate. The decision to transfer indeterminate sentenced prisoners (ISPs) to open conditions Mr Blunt: Contingency accommodation in police or is a categorisation decision which is a matter for the court cells is required when the size or distribution of Secretary of State for Justice. The Secretary of State the prison population is such that it can no longer be may take this decision after seeking advice from the managed within available prison capacity. There are no Parole Board or executively where the prisoners have plans to activate these contingencies, but in the event demonstrated exceptional progress in closed conditions. that this accommodation was required, all cells would be required to meet minimum health and safety standards. Indeterminate sentence prisoners are normally considered The providers of the accommodation would be responsible for recategorisation to open conditions no earlier than for local operating procedures to maintain these cells at three years before the end of their tariff. a level meeting health and safety standards. Moving indeterminate sentence prisoners to open conditions is an important part of the offender’s Prison: Probation rehabilitation. It tests their suitability for eventual release whilst still maintaining many of the restrictions of a Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice closed prison. Should the offender’s behaviour in open pursuant to the written ministerial statement of 13 July conditions give rise to concerns, he/she can be returned 2011, Official Report, column 31WS, on prison and to closed conditions. probation services, what the estimated cost is of the The National Offender Management Service (NOMS) market testing process for each of the nine prisons has recently implemented measures to reduce delays in selected for market testing; and if he will make a the process of moving indeterminate sentence prisoners statement. [69138] to open conditions where such a move has already been approved by the Secretary of State. Mr Blunt: It is not possible to provide the information These figures have been drawn from administrative requested at this time as the detailed costs are dependent IT systems which, as with any large scale recording upon the Procurement Strategy which is yet to be system, are subject to possible errors with data entry finalised. Our financial planning is based on the last and processing. phase of prison competitions. We estimate that it will cost £2.86 million to compete HMP Birmingham, HMP Probation: Manpower Buckley Hall and HMP Doncaster, with a financial benefit to the public of £216 million over the 15 year life Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice of the contracts. (1) how many qualified assistant chief probation Prisoners: Pay officers were employed in each probation trust (a) on the most recent date for which figures are available, (b) in 2008-09, (c) in 2009-10 and (d) in 2010-11; [76831] Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice whether the process of allocating the levy on (2) how many administrative and clerical staff were prisoner’s earnings to Victim Support complied with employed in each probation trust (a) on the most recent date for which figures are available, (b) in EU regulations on commissioning. [76619] 2008-09, (c) in 2009-10 and (d) in 2010-11; [76832] Mr Blunt: Yes. (3) how many qualified (a) probation officers and (b) probation service officers were employed in each Prisons probation trust on the most recent date for which figures are available. [76834] Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many prisoners convicted of (a) murder and (b) Mr Blunt: The figures requested are provided in the rape are housed in category D prisons; and whether he following tables. plans to increase the number of such prisoners in Figures are not available on the number of qualified category D prisons. [76913] probation officers performing an assistant chief officer 333W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 334W role. Figures provided for assistant chief officers therefore Data was unavailable for some areas/trusts within the relate to all assistant chief officers. periods in question due to local technical/staffing issues. All probation areas became probation trusts by Where there is missing data, the latest available figures 1 April 2010; this included a number of areas merging they submitted at that point in time have been included to become trusts. Two tables have therefore been provided within the relevant year. This is applicable to Cheshire that show snapshots of staff in post before and after the (September 2008 figures included within the 2008-09 mergers. Surrey and Sussex submitted merged data one figures); West Mercia (November 2009 figures included month before their merger; figures provided for them within the 2009-10 figures); Derbyshire (March 2011 for 2009-10 are therefore merged. figures included within the 2011-12 figures).
Staff in post 2008-09 and 2009-10 (pre-area mergers) Assistant chief officers Administrative and clerical Probation officers Probation services staff officers Trust 2008-09 2009-10 2008-09 2009-10 2008-09 2009-10 2008-09 2009-10
Avon and Somerset 5.90 7.90 125.7 122.30 178.2 163.3 157.1 152.30 Bedfordshire 5.00 3.00 36.57 35.95 63.09 61.04 44.88 47.47 Cambridgeshire 5.00 4.00 58.39 49.15 105.2 105 56.47 54.88 Cheshire 6.80 6.80 87.03 80.41 115.02 111.49 118.03 108.99 Cumbria 3.00 2.00 42.31 39.96 60.1 61.9 41.1 40.10 Derbyshire 4.00 4.00 107.4 88.90 138.8 115.3 130.4 113.40 Devon and Cornwall 6.10 4.00 114.01 92.52 193.42 179.57 88.06 87.19 Dorset 3.00 2.90 53.5 49.20 70.7 70.6 79.5 74.00 Durham 4.68 3.68 54.96 50.79 105.4 107.1 83.21 86.21 Dyfed-Powys 0.00 0.00 49.79 43.09 46.9 43.9 57.63 44.62 Essex 9.80 8.00 121.34 120.62 106.05 101.3 207.92 205.81 Gloucestershire 5.36 3.85 50.29 53.02 50.9 52.11 40.15 32.40 Greater Manchester 14.00 18.00 316.02 327.13 480.56 450.56 286.38 258.88 Gwent 4.00 5.00 67.48 66.73 89.44 85.94 62.7 61.73 Hampshire 0.00 0.00 149.54 129.54 191.1 196.68 188.19 172.44 Hertfordshire 6.00 4.00 58.25 52.89 82.89 79.39 86.7 78.69 Humberside 7.41 5.81 120.48 114.22 158.84 152.02 126.8 111.90 Kent 6.00 5.00 105.21 102.05 161.26 141.72 142.18 101.29 Lancashire 6.00 2.00 113.46 110.14 236.8 219.83 132.14 109.63 Leicestershire 9.02 7.00 109.3 105.75 157.34 158.27 186.37 173.19 Lincolnshire 5.00 4.00 61.88 51.41 72.08 64.88 66.02 66.55 London 35.00 45.00 646.83 1058.09 983.06 1017.37 864.19 329.12 Merseyside 0.00 8.00 172.45 179.76 257.57 265.51 223.26 192.55 Norfolk 4.00 3.00 35.75 31.96 93.05 86.16 138.93 123.40 North Wales 3.00 3.00 62.89 60.31 80.22 90.23 50.86 50.44 North Yorkshire 4.00 4.00 55.81 43.19 79.95 241.03 68.35 39.71 Northamptonshire 4.00 5.00 49.96 47.64 83.32 80.4 96.83 93.38 Northumbria 13.00 13.00 142.76 128.09 270.57 72.15 179.29 179.34 Nottinghamshire 0.00 5.00 155.06 139.57 177.28 174.27 116.51 108.48 South Wales 1.00 3.00 146.65 130.33 197.55 161.79 177.54 160.04 South Yorkshire 10.80 11.00 128.78 129.60 224.13 202.34 182.84 176.14 Staffordshire 0.00 0.00 132.35 113.87 158.5 115.34 91.64 71.44 Suffolk 5.75 4.75 39.83 34.66 91.35 85.29 71.58 67.63 Surrey 3.43 — 72.38 — 71.24 — 84.35 — Surrey and Sussex — 8.80 — 143.20 — 211.51 — 100.73 (merged data) Sussex 5.80 — 83.9 — 146.6 — 123.69 — Teesside 4.00 4.00 62.4 60.83 128.08 122.99 98.07 81.60 Thames Valley 6.00 6.00 161.24 156.93 218.9 210.73 253.94 214.41 Warwickshire 6.00 6.00 31.11 29.57 61.24 61.05 38.76 44.33 West Midlands 16.60 18.61 444.72 428.49 467.59 135.46 415.99 394.74 West Mercia 6.00 6.00 103.18 107.37 138.22 436.6 104.16 92.58 West Yorkshire 14.00 8.00 321.3 291.02 359.29 341.3 297.42 287.72 Wiltshire 4.60 3.49 47.81 43.35 62.22 53.01 44.09 40.07 Total 263.05 266.59 5100.07 5243.60 7214.02 6886.43 6104.22 5029.52 335W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 336W
Staff in post 2010-11 and 2011-12 (post-area mergers) Assistant Chief Officers Administrative and clerical Probation officers Probation services staff officers Trust 2010-11 2011-12 2010-11 2011-12 2010-11 2011-12 2010-11 2011-12
Avon and Somerset 8.90 8.90 112.50 116.20 155.60 149.60 160.20 163.30 Bedfordshire 5.00 5.00 35.37 44.33 55.55 53.85 48.89 50.34 Cambridgeshire 4.60 5.00 48.88 46.90 109.86 107.20 54.61 54.40 Cheshire 6.80 6.80 74.91 76.17 116.12 116.55 90.28 88.89 Cumbria 2.00 3.00 40.55 41.55 57.90 56.30 37.30 46.91 Derbyshire 4.00 4.00 73.20 73.20 109.30 109.30 113.50 113.50 Devon and Cornwall 4.00 4.00 85.11 86.13 171.35 131.29 80.19 116.82 Dorset 3.00 4.00 48.60 44.80 66.70 61.30 72.00 71.00 Durham Tees Valley 8.37 8.37 95.89 93.81 219.30 215.54 163.28 162.62 Essex 8.00 8.00 132.42 129.71 104.90 103.60 202.86 197.55 Gloucestershire 1.85 1.85 42.43 43.69 48.53 47.53 28.55 27.94 Greater Manchester 16.00 14.00 284.20 276.13 440.46 434.05 224.48 225.72 Hampshire 0.00 0.00 117.51 130.63 188.41 194.20 164.49 168.12 Hertfordshire 5.00 5.00 50.98 55.60 78.68 75.58 84.26 80.54 Humberside 3.00 3.00 102.44 96.84 149.40 140.70 106.18 100.12 Kent 4.40 5.40 104.19 104.70 138.48 138.19 103.02 131.23 Lancashire 6.00 6.00 105.51 103.81 221.21 218.25 112.05 114.86 Leicestershire 7.60 7.60 98.37 95.59 148.74 147.53 170.92 167.51 Lincolnshire 5.00 5.00 50.21 48.40 68.63 65.97 63.49 61.80 London 44.00 44.80 1061.94 1060.29 1006.01 989.64 367.24 342.99 Merseyside 8.00 7.00 169.35 168.77 261.13 258.15 192.53 190.55 Norfolk and Suffolk 6.75 6.00 97.69 95.75 169.51 168.86 149.24 151.13 Northamptonshire 3.00 3.00 45.30 45.91 86.16 83.46 90.39 93.30 Northumbria 11.91 11.91 134.63 136.07 228.33 231.43 168.19 167.69 Nottinghamshire 6.03 6.00 122.54 124.43 168.23 170.01 115.91 117.19 South Yorkshire 11.99 10.99 73.10 71.02 248.26 240.04 171.46 166.66 Staffordshire and West 18.11 16.11 530.39 521.23 561.00 556.21 470.09 470.06 Midlands Surrey and Sussex 7.30 7.50 146.92 151.02 202.35 203.53 100.00 106.11 Thames Valley 5.00 5.00 148.03 147.84 207.98 203.41 199.96 198.06 Wales 13.00 12.00 268.64 262.53 369.16 365.30 304.74 305.07 Warwickshire 4.00 4.00 32.58 33.12 59.52 59.52 41.46 41.81 West Mercia 4.00 4.00 95.82 95.31 118.97 116.41 93.39 91.85 West Yorkshire 7.00 6.88 316.82 316.77 326.67 315.35 306.50 283.88 Wiltshire 3.49 3.49 47.82 47.62 52.45 52.39 27.06 27.20 York and North 4.00 4.00 55.70 53.53 79.65 76.76 59.13 58.74 Yorkshire Total 261.10 257.60 5050.54 5039.40 6794.50 6657.00 4937.84 4955.46
Probation: Training Public Sector
Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what training measures he plans to put in place in the what steps his Department has taken to encourage the event of probation functions being contracted out in development of public service mutuals in its area of England and Wales. [76826] responsibility; and if he will make a statement. [74817]
Mr Blunt: Providers of probation services in England Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Ministry of Justice is actively and Wales will be subject to the requirements of the exploring opportunities to encourage public service mutuals Probation Qualification Framework (PQF) in the same across its services. way as Probation Trusts. This means that they will be All such opportunities are being considered within obliged to provide induction training for all offender the context of our strategic approach to competition facing staff and professional qualification training for injustice services, as set out in the Offender Services Probation Services Officers (PSO), Probation Officers Competition Strategy1. or equivalent staff. The quality of the training will be 1 http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/corporate-reports/moj/ assessed by the Probation Qualification Assurance Board oscs.htm as part of the contract monitoring process. Sentencing: Children Other training proposals will be scrutinised via the competition process to ensure that staff are competent Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for to deliver services and manage the appropriate level of Justice how many children received an indeterminate risk. sentence in each year since 2000. [76707] 337W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 338W
Mr Blunt: The number of persons under 18 given a Court proceedings data for 2011 are planned for sentence of Detention for Public Protection (introduced publication in spring, 2012. in April 2005) or sentenced to life, at all courts, by age group, in England and Wales from 2005 to 2010 (latest available), can be viewed in the following table.
Number of persons under 18 given a sentence of Detention for Public Protection (DPP)1, 2or life at all courts, for all offences, by age group, England and Wales, 2005 to 20103, 4 Sentence breakdown 2005 2006 2007 20085 2009 2010 Age group DPP Life DPP Life DPP Life DPP Life DPP Life DPP Life
10-11 — — — — — — — — — — 1 — 12-14 2 3 — 1 6 1 2 2 2 1 1 — 15-17 24 25 45 15 55 25 68 23 25 22 39 19 1 Became available to the courts from April 2005. DPP is an indeterminate sentence available in the Crown court for under 18s. It is the juvenile equivalent of the adult indeterminate sentence for public protection (IPP). 2 The Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 introduced some changes to DPPs to restrict its use. 3 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 4 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 5 Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July and August 2008. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice.
CABINET OFFICE In addition to listing the project name and responsible Department the information available includes (a) the Civil Servants: Business Interests capital value of the asset and associated unitary charge payments, (b) the date of financial close and (c) the operational period of the contract. Helen Goodman: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office whether former employees of the Security Services In addition to the Sunningdale Park contract, the received approval from the Business Appointments Cabinet Office has a contract for ICT services which, Committee to set up G3; and whether such approval is although not a PFI contract under the Treasury definition, required for other security work they undertake. [76614] is treated as if it is a PFI contract in the Cabinet Office annual published accounts. Details of the contract are Mr Maude: Equivalent versions of the business on page 223, notes 29.1 and 29.2, of the Cabinet Office appointment rules for civil servants are in place for Annual Report and Accounts 2010-11, available in the members of the intelligence agencies which require House of Commons library and from the Cabinet Office senior officials to seek advice from the independent website: Advisory Committee on Business Appointments. However, http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sites/default/files/resources/ in order to protect their identity, the appointments of resource-accounts-2010-11.pdf former members of the security and intelligence agencies This was signed in June 2007. are generally not made public, although the appointments of the most senior officials whose identity is already in the public domain have been published on the Committee’s Former Prime Ministers: Allowances website. Mr Hollobone: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Departmental Private Finance Initiative Office (1) how much each former Prime Minister claimed under the public duty costs allowance in each of the last Stella Creasy: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet five years; [76815] Office if he will publish the (a) cost, (b) date of commencement and (c) duration of each private (2) if he will review the (a) limit and (b) criteria of finance initiative contract managed by his Department. the public duty costs allowance for former Prime Ministers for the purposes of aligning the scheme with policy on [76537] administrative savings in Government Departments. Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office has one private finance [76835] initiative (PFI) contract which is for the provision of residential training accommodation and serviced office Mr Maude [holding answer 26 October 2011]: The accommodation at Sunningdale Park, Ascot for the amount claimed by each Prime Minister under the National School of Government. This was signed on 23 Public Duty Cost allowance for the last five years is April 2002. Information on signed PFI projects that listed in the following tables. were signed prior to 16 March 2011 is available on the The tables set out how much was claimed for that Treasury’s website at: year. The date the actual payment was made may not be http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/ppp_pfi_stats.htm in the same year that the claim relates to. 339W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 340W
2006-07 The cost of work required to obtain, contextualise £ and report the data for Government Procurement Service for 2007-08 and 2008-09 would exceed the cost limits of John Major 87,276.00 a freedom of information request or a parliamentary Margaret Thatcher 96,003.00 question. Total 183,279.00 Government Procurement Service will be publishing 2007-08 any transactions over £500 on its website, starting with £ 2011-12 quarter 1 (April-June) and quarter 2 (July- September) data at the end of October and then on a John Major 90,504.96 monthly basis. Margaret Thatcher 99,554.00 Total 190,058.96 Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 2008-09 Office what the (a) date of purchase, (b) amount and £ (c) supplier was of each transaction undertaken by his Department using the Government Procurement Card John Major 100,204.92 in (i) 2007-08, (ii) 2008-09 and (iii) 2009-10. [75819] Margaret Thatcher 110,225.00 Tony Blair 169,076.02 Mr Maude: This Government are committed to Total 379,505.94 transparency and we believe the information regarding 2009-10 Government Procurement Cards for this financial year is the most relevant. Central Government Departments £ have just published any transactions over £500 on their John Major 103,812.00 websites, for 2011-12 Quarter 1 (April-June) data. From Margaret Thatcher 114,193.20 now on these will be published on a monthly basis. Tony Blair 103,812.00 The Cabinet Office plans to publish 2009-10 data Total 321,817.20 later in the financial year. The further cost of work required to obtain, contextualise and report data for 2010-11 Cabinet Office for 2008-09 and 2007-08 would exceed £ the cost limits of a Freedom of Information request of Gordon Brown 83,718.30 a parliamentary question. Margaret Thatcher 115,045.00 John Major 109,125.00 Social Enterprises Total 307,888.30 Mr Thomas: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet The Public Duties Cost Allowance is kept under Office what discussions he has had on promoting social review. enterprises in the areas for which his Department is responsible in each month since May 2010; and if he will make a statement. [77347] Government Departments: Procurement Mr Hurd: As Minister for Civil Society I have had Steve Rotheram: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet numerous discussions with stakeholders and colleagues Office which bodies are involved in the Government’s in Government on promoting social enterprise. Lean Procurement programme. [77028] Work to grow the social economy, including supporting social enterprises, is being taken forward by the Office Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office is working across all for Civil Society within the Cabinet Office. central Government Departments on the Lean Procurement programme. Departments are contributing to the development of the new lean sourcing process, testing and refining the process on live procurement projects, WORK AND PENSIONS and inputting to the design of the supporting training programme. Access to Work
Mr Frank Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Government Procurement Card Work and Pensions how many telephone inquiries have been made to Work programme providers in each of Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet the last three months. [75747] Office what the (a) date of purchase, (b) amount and (c) supplier was of each transaction undertaken by Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions Buying Solutions using the Government Procurement does not hold information regarding telephone inquiries Card in (i) 2007-08, (ii) 2008-09 and (iii) 2009-10. to Work programme providers and does not require [75820] providers to gather or report on this information.
Mr Maude: Transactions undertaken by Government Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Procurement Service (formally Buying Solutions) in and Pensions what steps he is taking to ensure that 2009-10 have been tabulated for ease of reference and disabled people are made aware of the Access to Work deposited in the Library of the House. scheme. [76219] 341W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 342W
Chris Grayling: Access to Work provides vital support Change to help disabled people get and keep employment. We £ million (percentage) want as many disabled people as possible to know this support is available. The recent Sayce review recommended 2011-12 5.042 -71.2 changes that will increase the number of people who are able to benefit from Access to Work and raise awareness about its availability among disabled people and employers. The value of all completed or approved for construction A public consultation following the review has just building and refurbishment expenditure not covered by closed and we will be considering ideas and reactions the unitary charge for financial year 2011-12 is £5.042 from that consultation and publishing a statement in million, a 91% decrease on that for 2009-10. This covered due course. a total of 52 projects. Full details are as follows. During the Sayce consultation period two Access to The 52 projects are proposed and funded by the Work events were held, one in Manchester for Third business unit e.g. Jobcentre Plus. The business holds the Sector organisations and Access to Work Users and a funding and makes the decisions as to which projects further meeting in London for employers of disabled are business critical within the funding envelope it holds. people. The attendee list at both events was extensive The business makes bid submissions for this funding and featured many recognisable names. based on its change programme requirements. Also from 9 December 2010, disabled job seekers The Department has yet to agree future plans regarding have been able to find out immediately if they are changes to its service delivery and any consequent impact eligible for Access to Work support by completing a on the estate, therefore changes to the existing estate short on-line questionnaire at: beyond the current financial year will be considered www.Direct.gov.uk when such requirements are known and understood. If eligible, they are then able to print off a new Pre- Employment Eligibility Letter which will help build Building and Refurbishment Projects their confidence when applying for jobs and can be Cost Building name Project name (£) shown to prospective employers. This delivers the commitments in the coalition programme to reform Duchy House, 96 Office re-fig 29,365.98 Access to Work, so that disabled people can apply for Lancaster Road, Preston, jobs with funding already secured for any adaptations PR1 1HE and equipment they will need. Companies House, Cardiff, Companies Hse— 22,568.12 Companies House, Relocation of 4th Flr Departmental Buildings Cardiff, CF14 3UW Ontario House, 2 Furness Relocation of staff ( 20,758.99 Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Quay, Salford, M50 3XZ Building to be vacated) Ranger House, 2nd and 3rd Guildford—Ranger 13,180.99 and Pensions what (a) building and (b) refurbishment Floors, Guildford, GU1 House—Decants from and projects his Department plans in (i) the current and (ii) 4US Vacation of Ranger Hse the next financial year; and what the cost will be of Norcross Lane—Block 6 DAPS Studio 11,671.46 each such project. [74326] Norcross Lane, Thornton Cleveleys, FY5 3TA Chris Grayling: The Department occupies the vast Gregson House, 2 Central Maximise BDC Capacity 2,450.00 majority of its properties under the terms of a 20-year Street, St Helens, WA10 PFI contract with Telereal Trillium, for which it pays a 1UF unitary charge in return for fully fitted and serviced Bridge House, 28 Castleford Wheldon 458,245.78 Wheldon Road, Road—MEC Alteration accommodation. Castleford, WF10 2JG Works The unitary charge includes works carried out over Henry Giles House, 73-79 Henry Giles House, 264,114.78 the life cycle of the accommodation which contain an Chesterton Road, Cambridge—MEC element of refurbishment that cannot be disaggregated Cambridge, CB4 3BQ Relocation Option 2B from overall expenditure. Pedmore House, Pedmore House, Dudley— 253,412.18 Waterfront East—Level Relocate Staff from Quay Some refurbishments are not covered by the unitary Street, Dudley, DY5 1XA House charge and are funded separately as capital expenditure. Quarry House—Main Leeds Quarry House— 106,272.56 This is because it would not be practical or demonstrate Bldg, Quarry Hill, Leeds, Works to Library 1NW value for money for the taxpayer if the contractor were LS2 7UA to price into the unitary charge the potential business Eaton House, Eaton Reading—Eaton House— 89,912.67 change volumes. Court, Reading, RG1 7LL MEC Any business-driven changes to the estate would fall Crown Building, Lincoln Crown Building, Boston— 82,534.47 Lane, Boston, PE21 8SJ MSEC Exp—Convert into this category such as in 2010-11, for example, when existing JCP BoH office Jobcentre Plus initiated the Response to the Economic area Downturn project, which converted primarily back of Rutland Centre, Yeoman Ruland Centre, Leicester— 60,311.40 the house space to temporary front of the house space Street, Leicester, LE1 MSEC Expan—Create 2 in order to support more jobseekers. 1UU Additional Examination R Albion House, Northway, Scarborough Albion 43,665.24 Change Scarborough, North House—Main Project £ million (percentage) Yorkshire YO12 7AN Pearson Buildings, 57-59 Pearson Building, 22,092.00 2009-10 56.9 — Upper Parliament Street, Nottingham—Concertina 2010-11 17.5 -69.2 Nottingham, NG1 6AZ Room Divider 343W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 344W
Building and Refurbishment Projects Building and Refurbishment Projects Cost Cost Building name Project name (£) Building name Project name (£)
Kings Court, 80 Hanover Sheffield Kings Court— 21,073.65 Fox Court, 14 Gray’s Inn London- Fox Court—4th 19,720.00 Way, Sheffield, S3 7UF Modify G Flr for Road, London, WC1X floor3in1 Universal Credit Team 8HN Move to Site Quarry House—Main Leeds Quarry house— 18,400.00 Melbourne House, Schedule 28 costs ground 18,090.88 Bldg, Quarry Hill, Leeds, Flexible working proposal Melbourne Street/ floor LS2 7UA Phase 2 Eastgate, Accrington, Knollys House, 17 Croydon—Knollys Hse— 15,681.21 BB5 6PU Addiscombe Road, Access Control System Five Ways House, Five Ways House, 10,000.00 Croydon, Surrey CR0 Islington Row, Birmingham—Landlords 6SR Birmingham, B15 1SL Costs from JCP Rollout Equinox, Island Business Equinox House, 12,708.13 Wellesley House, 30 Create open plan floor 500.00 Quarter, Nottingham, Nottingham— Wellington Road North, space for 150+ work NG2 4UU Reorganisation of Stockport, SK4 1LS stations on 1st and 3rd Ground, First and Second floors Floor Quarry House—Main Leeds Quarry House— 472,713.21 Summerlock House, Salisbury—Summerlock 10,037.52 Bldg, Quarry Hill, Leeds, Installation of CHP Summerlock Approach, House—Conference Room LS2 7UA SALIX Grant Salisbury, SP2 7RW (York DIE) 1 Leeds City Leeds City One Office 1,250,268.35 Norcross Lane - Block 7, VC Suite upgrade 9,111.95 Office Park, 1st and 2nd Park—Ground Floor Norcross Lane, and 3rd Floors, Leeds Final Solution Blackpool, FY5 3TA LS11 5BD Crown Buildings, Scunthorpe Crown 8,338.19 Quarry House - Main Leeds Quarry House— 513,967.00 Laneham Street, Buildings—HMRC Works Bldg, Quarry Hill, Leeds, Pathfinder Phase 2 Scunthorpe, DN15 6JT 2nd Floor LS2 7UA Flexible Working Budget York House, 31-36 York Leeds York House— 5,051.15 Moorfoot, Moorfoot, Sheffield Moorfoot— 337,178.00 Place, Leeds, LS1 2ED Removal of Wall Sheffield Migration of Staff/ Quarry House—Main Leeds Quarry House—VC 5,157.03 churn/re space planning Bldg, Quarry Hill, Leeds, Equipment Upgrade Argyle House, 3 Lady Relocation of DWP staff 213,929.48 LS2 7UA Lawson Street/38 Castle from Argyle House and Cannon Court, High Lymington - Cannon 4,843.78 Terrace, Edinburgh, EH3 Fit Out of new Building Street, Lymington, Court—GIS Room 9SJ Hampshire, SO41 9AQ High Riggs Job Centre, Relocation of Argyle 135,974.70 Equinox, Island Business Equinox House, 3,919.43 20 High Riggs , House Payment Facility Quarter, Nottingham, Nottingham—Window Edinburgh, EH3 7HU NG2 4UU Film Works Caxton House, Tothill Caxton House—Resilience 65,200.00 Quarry House—Main Leeds Quarry House— 3,310.89 Street, London, SW1H upgrade to Comms room Bldg, Quarry Hill, Leeds, Reprographics Planning 9NA LS2 7UA Caxton House, Tothill London-Caxton House- 59,699.96 Griffin House, Bryn Telephony and Processing 2,924.59 Street, London, SW1H Install stand alone A/C Road, Wigan, WN4 8SS Implementation Project— 9NA unit VC room 3.44 Temporary Screens Peel Park Industrial Supply and fit Glass pods 58,650.89 Griffin House, Bryn Telephony and Processing 2,117.88 Estate-Bldg 1, Brunel g/f phase 1 Road, Wigan, WN4 8SS Implementation Project— Way, Blackpool, FY4 5ES Temporary Screens Broadlands House, IOW—Newport— 51,394.52 Steel City House, Steel Sheffield Steel City 4,698.40 Staplers Road, Newport, Broadlands House— City House West Street, House—European Social PO30 2HX HMRC Sheffield, S1 2GQ Fund Flagpoles Tamarisk House, Bournemouth—Tamarisk 43,097.42 Quarry House—Main Leeds Quarry House— 978.69 1 Cotlands Road, House—MEC Bldg, Quarry Hill, Leeds, Relocation of Library Bournemouth, Dorset LS2 7UA BH1 3BG Total — 5,042,756.66 Nutwood House, Military Canterbury—Nutwood 38,074.66 Road, Canterbury, CT1 House—Creation of Leeds Quarry House 1ZZ Examination Rooms Works to library 1NW (£106,272): Refurbishment of Great Oaks House, Great Great Oaks House, 36,548.20 the former library to accommodate the Department for Oaks, Basildon, SS14 1JE Basildon—Create a Disabled Shower Facility Health (DOH). The works are funded by DOH via Building 301, Birchwood Birchwood Park Agile 34,056.75 DWP to ensure fast track delivery. Park, Warrington, areas London Caxton House Cheshire, WA3 6XF Install stand alone A/C unit VC room 3.44 (£59,699): Forester House, Becket Forester House, Derby— 26,420.98 Installation of stand alone A/C unit with local controls Street, Derby, DE1 1NW Reconfigure FOH area on Ground Floor in video conference room 3.44. The A/C unit was installed to keep the room at a suitable temperature for the Red Rose House, Office re-fig 24,600.00 Lancaster Road, Preston, equipment and for a maximum of eight people all day. PR1 1NS Norcross Lane Eastgate House, 35-43 Cardiff, Eastgate House— 23,762.55 VC suite upgrade (£9,111): New suspended ceiling Newport Road, Cardiff, Works to 1 st and 2nd CF24 0YP Floors and lighting, carpet and decoration, removal of asbestos ceiling (ARTEX) to facilitate the works. 345W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 346W
Leeds Quarry House The Department has a policy that supports the UK VC equipment upgrade (£5,157): National role out social and economic agenda by ensuring that DWP jobs for the installation of video conferencing. Includes minor are not offshored. In addition the Department’s policy room alterations, re-decoration and furniture to comply also requires that any supplier, either when tendering with client’s requirements. for contracts or wishing to make changes to arrangements during the life of a contract, has to submit detailed Leeds Quarry House proposals and gain DWP written approval if they have Reprographics planning (£3,310): Installation of any intention of offshoring work or data. additional reprographic machines to minimise costs for DWP supports the Government target of 25% of photocopying and alike. Government spend via SMEs by 2015. SMEs are considered Sheffield Steel City House to have more potential for growth and are more likely to European Social Fund flagpoles (£4,698): Due to be innovative in contract delivery. The effect of this relocation of European Social Services into this building policy is more employment leading to an increase in two flagpoles were erected outside Steel City House. taxation revenue for the Exchequer and a reduction in Flags required were the Union, EU and St George’s. We benefit payment. are seeking full reimbursement of the cost of the flag The Department’s commercial strategy commits to pole from ESF technical assistance money, so the cost improving Value For Money (VFM) through cost reduction will fall to the EU. and cost avoidance activity. In line with Cabinet Office Leeds Quarry House policy, pre audit VFM savings for the financial year Relocation of library (£978): this is linked to the 2010-11 were £432 million of which £180 million were above project (1NW) and as such work is on the behalf cash releasing and £252 million related to VFM activity. of the DOH. This was the structural survey of the area The Department leads on the introduction of frameworks to accommodate the library to ensure it was structurally which improve VFM for other Government Departments compliant. (OGDs) and also leads on cross-government VFM activity through its Crown Commercial Representative. Departmental Lost Property The use of DWP assets by OGDs also saves substantial resources, for example resource management (RM) system Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for which delivers strategic resource management solutions Work and Pensions what actions are at his disposal to for the Department and OGDs and the customer take against an employee of his Department who loses information system (CIS), an intelligent IT database a laptop issued by his Department. [76960] which generates significant VFM for the Department and OGDs. Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions The Department retains ownership of intellectual takes data security very seriously. The Department can property rights as part of the standard legal terms and exercise a range of actions against employees who lose conditions used when contracting. This enables revenue laptops. These range from imposing disciplinary warnings to be generated for the Exchequer (or contract costs and sanctions to dismissal. reduced) on occasions where it is appropriate for intellectual The DWP Standards of Behaviour policy requires property rights to be sold. While not directly linked to staff to look after departmental equipment and ensure contracts it awards, the Department also considers raising there is no loss or damage. Disciplinary action is taken revenue for the Exchequer by using the Wider Markets against employees who breach security policy. Initiative to generate income from its assets, where Since 2007 we have improved data handing procedures, appropriate. including minimising the amount of data put on removable media, encryption programmes for data and mobile Departmental Public Expenditure devices that carry personal protected data, and introduced training and education programmes to improve staff Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for awareness of information risks. Work and Pensions what steps he is taking to deliver the efficiency gains required by HM Treasury. [77040] Departmental Procurement Chris Grayling: The Department plans to realise Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Work substantial efficiency savings over the period of the and Pensions what account his Department takes of spending review through measures which will deliver (a) socio-economic factors and (b) potential revenues both savings and improved customer service, as well as for the Exchequer in the awarding of contracts. [76554] focussing its resources on key reforms of the welfare system such as the introduction of universal credit. Chris Grayling: The Department considers socio- These plans include a reduction in the size of the economic factors in the initial stages of contracting corporate centre by up to 40%, and parallel measures to using Sustainable Procurement Risk Assessment reduce the costs of benefits processing by 25% through Methodology which considers the impact on small and streamlining and modernising frontline activities. These medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), opportunities for measures include, for example, shifting from paper to apprenticeships, the implications for diversity and equality digital based services and sharing information more as well as for climate change and sustainability. Where efficiently within and between Departments. Specific relevant and proportionate, appropriate contractual terms actions to improve the efficiency, ease and speed of the are included at contract award to monitor supplier Department’s frontline activities are included in the performance in these areas during contract delivery. business plan. 347W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 348W
The Department will also make further efficiencies Housing Benefit: Scotland through its estates and IT strategies, and works closely with the Cabinet Office Efficiency Reform Group to Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for drive down the costs from its other major suppliers. Work and Pensions how many private sector landlords have agreed to reduce rents in return for an arrangement that housing benefit be paid direct to them (a) in Departmental Voluntary Work Edinburgh, (b) in Scotland and (c) nationally since 1 April 2011. [75768] Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what volunteering (a) he and (b) other Steve Webb: This information is not available. Ministers in his Department have undertaken as part of the One Day Challenge; what the nature of the work Jobseeker’s Allowance undertaken was; on what dates it took place; and what the names were of the organisations assisted. [76227] Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what the weekly level of jobseeker’s allowance Chris Grayling: The information is as follows: was in real terms in each of the last 10 years; and what Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Duncan estimate he has made of the level of the allowance in Smith) each of the next five years. [75939] Championed the voluntary sector throughout his six years as Chairman of the Centre for Social Justice and continues to be Chris Grayling: The information requested is in the involved with a number of charities, including as a patron. following table: Minister for Employment (Chris Grayling) Real value of jobseeker’s allowance at date of uprating (£ per week, Patron for the Forces Children’s Trust. April 2011 prices, using Consumer Prices Index) Minister for Welfare Reform (Steve Webb) Single Couple Volunteers at a local Sunday school every week and is a patron April 2000 66.16 103.86 of several local charities. April 2001 66.45 104.28 Minister for Disabled People (Maria Miller) April 2002 66.65 104.58 Undertakes a volunteer session on the first Saturday of each April 2003 66.54 104.41 month. This volunteer session is called the Speak Easy Advocacy April 2004 66.99 105.10 and helps people with learning disabilities, autism and Aspergers, April 2005 66.37 104.10 by offering guidance and advice over tea and coffee. April 2006 66.51 104.31 Minister for Welfare Reform (Lord Freud) April 2007 66.64 104.55 Sponsor and board member of the charity “Grand Mentors”. April 2008 66.20 103.89 This is a charity where mainly older retired people mentor and April 2009 68.76 107.96 tutor young individuals. April 2010 67.48 105.94 April 2011 67.50 105.95 April 2012 67.49 105.94 Disability: Public Transport (forecast) April 2013 67.51 105.93 Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for (forecast) Work and Pensions what steps his Department is taking April 2014 67.50 105.95 to provide financial assistance to disabled people who (forecast) are unable to use public transport to travel to work. April 2015 67.52 105.97 (forecast) [77029] April 2016 67.51 105.95 (forecast) Maria Miller: The Access to Work scheme can pay Source: for additional travel costs that arise as a result of a DWP Annual Abstract of Statistics, 2010, and Office for Budget customer’s disability or health condition in the form of Responsibility Economic and Fiscal Outlook, March 2011 a reimbursement grant. Disabled people who are unable to use public transport to get to work can use Access to Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Work to fund a support worker driver or to pay taxi Work and Pensions how many people in Middlesbrough fares. South and East Cleveland constituency (a) under the People with long-term disabilities may receive disability ageof24and(b) over the age of 50 have been in receipt living allowance or attendance allowance, which provide of jobseeker’s allowance for more than 12 months. a contribution towards the extra cost of disability. [77260] Recipients are free to spend the money in a way that best fits their circumstances, including on transport Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. costs. The information requested falls within the responsibility In addition, people in receipt of the higher rate of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority mobility component of disability living allowance or to reply. war pensioner’s mobility supplement, provided they Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated October 2011: have at least 12 months remaining of their award, may As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, choose to exchange all or part of that component to I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Questions lease a vehicle from Motability, an independent charity. asking; how many people in Middlesbrough South and East 349W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 350W
Cleveland constituency (a) under the age of 24 and (b) over the cover apportioned costs from Central Support Services, age of 50 have been in receipt of Jobseeker’s allowance for more so underestimates the total funding. than 12 months. (77260) It is not possible to separate out the funding for The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles the number Scotland, Wales and England due to the way the businesses of claimants of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) from the Jobcentre Plus administrative system. are split. In September 2011 the number of people resident in Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland claiming JSA for more than 52 weeks Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work under 24 years old was 90. The number claiming JSA for more and Pensions what estimate he has made of the additional than 52 weeks over 50 years old was 100. benefits that would have to be paid to Remploy employees National and local area estimates for many labour market if they had not been in work for each of the last three statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant years. [76965] count are available on the NOMIS website at: http://www.nomisweb.co.uk Maria Miller: It is not possible to provide any meaningful estimate of the additional benefits that would have had Remploy to be paid to Remploy employees if they had not been in work for each of the last three years, since the value of any benefits that Remploy employees may have been Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work entitled to would depend on each individual’s personal and Pensions what recent estimate he has made of the circumstances. potential number of Remploy employees who will find new employment under his proposals. [76961] Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what funding his Department has Maria Miller: At present no estimate has been made allocated for professional training and development of of the potential numbers of Remploy employees who Remploy employees who are interested in setting up will find new employment. This is because no decision co-operatives, mutuals or social enterprises. [76966] has been made on the future strategy for Remploy and its operations continue as normal. Maria Miller: At present no specific funding is allocated Following the outcome of the recent consultation, for professional training and development of Remploy should the Government decision support implementation employees who are interested in setting up co-operatives, of the Sayce recommendations or alternative commercial mutuals or social enterprises. This is because no decision proposals, then the Department will put in place a has been made on the future strategy for Remploy and commercial strategy, and Remploy staff will receive its operations continue as normal. professional support and advice to consider the options Following the outcome of the recent consultation, open to them. should the Government decision support implementation It will take time to analyse the consultation responses of the Sayce recommendations or alternative commercial in detail and carefully consider the implications for proposals, then the Department will put in place a future policy. We will publish a summary of responses commercial strategy, and Remploy staff will receive received and a statement on future policy as soon as professional support and advice to consider the options practicably possible. open to them. It will take time to analyse the consultation responses Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work in detail and carefully consider the implications for and Pensions how much his Department has invested future policy. We will publish a summary of responses in Remploy factories in (a) Scotland and (b) the rest received and a statement on future policy as soon as of the UK in each of the last five years. [76964] practicably possible.
Maria Miller: The information is as follows: Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many Government procurement £ million contracts have been awarded to Remploy in the last five Total GIA EB years; and for what work. [76967] 2005-06 119.3 1— 2006-07 133.8 1— Maria Miller: The information is as follows: 2007-08 145.8 95.7 Enterprise Business won 17 contracts with Government 2008-09 121.5 71.3 Departments in 2008-09 to 2010-11 2009-10 122.4 63.3 Covering IT recycling and document handling; furniture for Total 642.8 2— offices, schools, colleges and universities; Chemical Biological, 1 Not known. Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) protection suits for police 2 Not available. forces; wheelchairs and orthotics products for hospitals and health The total grant in aid funding paid to Remploy in the authorities. UK over the past five years for which data are available Enterprise Business won 11 contracts with local authorities was £642.8 million. This relates to the whole of Remploy’s in 2008-09 to 2010-11 operations, covering the Enterprise Businesses and Providing CCTV management and monitoring and IT recycling Employment Services arms of the company. for local councils. For 2005-06 and 2006-07 the only figures available Employment Services won 27 contracts with Government relate to the total amount of funding paid to Remploy. Departments in 2007-08 to 2010-11 From 2007-08 onwards it is possible to separate out the Including Flexible New Deal, Pathways to Work, New Deal funding for Enterprise Businesses, but this does not for Disabled People. Work with ex-offenders and those preparing 351W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 352W to leave prison; Wellbeing through Work programme in Wales to frequent sessions in which they are asked to respond to support employees with mental health problems; occupational both high level design thinking and detailed service skills and training for Scottish Government; skills and training design. There will be significant levels of testing specifically support on a large number of local projects. focused on ensuring that the various components work Employment Services won 39 contracts with public effectively together, including realistic business testing. bodies in 2007-08 to 2010-11 Including local authorities, Further Education colleges and skills organisations (including Learning and Skills Council) delivering skills training and work experience opportunities for disabled and disadvantaged people; working with local employers to support DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER candidate groups in inner city and areas of high disadvantage who require specialist interventions. Electoral Register Note that it is not possible to provide information for Enterprise Business for 2007-08 as prior to 2008, the Chris Ruane: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister company was organised on a regional basis. The information pursuant to the answer of 13 June 2011, Official Report, is not held centrally and could be collated only at column 627W, on the electoral register, what assessment disproportionate cost. he has made of the Electoral Commission’s forecast for registration rates following the implementation of his Universal Credit proposals for individual voter registration. [77033]
Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Mr Harper: The Electoral Commission have made no and Pensions whether his Department has made any forecast of registration rates following Individual Electoral estimate of the cost implications of ending existing Registration (IER). In their evidence to the Political commercial housing benefit contracts early as a result and Constitutional Reform Committee they speculated of the introduction of universal credit; and whether his about a worst case scenario based on only those turning Department has any plans to pay compensation to (a) out to vote at elections registering to vote. The Government local authorities, (b) housing associations and (c) do not share this view. contractors in consequence. [67035] The Government are committed to maintaining Steve Webb: The Welfare Reform White Paper sets registration rates during the transition to IER. We have out that the Department for Work and Pensions will be learnt from the experience in Northern Ireland and are responsible for organising the delivery of universal credit. phasing in IER over two years from 2014, putting in It also states that we will continue to pay housing place a safeguard for the 2015 General Election so that benefit to working age customers until we can migrate existing electors who fail to register under the new them successfully on to universal credit, currently expected system in 2014 are not disenfranchised. We are trialling to be by October 2017. We have yet to settle on the data matching this year to see if it will help to get more precise details of how the transition will work, and the people onto the electoral register. We are looking at effects on housing benefits staff. This approach will how we can modernise the system of electoral registration ensure an orderly transition and that we have people by opening up new channels for registration which will with relevant skills and experience to support claimants also make it easier and more convenient for individuals both in work and out of work, as they migrate to the to register to vote. new credit. We are also working with the Electoral Commission We will continue to work with colleagues in HM to plan publicity around the transition which ensures Revenue and Customs and local authorities to test new that people are well informed about the change, and we ways of working and consider how, in the longer term, are also working closely with a range of groups representing we can build on the best capabilities of current organisations those at risk of falling off the register during the transition, to provide a consistently excellent service to claimants to ensure the system is designed in the best possible way and ensure value for money. This work will also confirm to meet their needs. whether and how TUPE will apply for those staff affected in all organisations. Lobbying
Mr Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Lisa Nandy: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister pursuant Pensions what plans he has to pilot the universal credit; to the answer of 14 June 2010, Official Report, column and if he will make a statement. [75453] 321W, on lobbying, what the reasons are for the time taken in publishing plans for a statutory register of Chris Grayling: Universal credit will be introduced in lobbyists. [76977] October 2013, and individuals will be migrated to the new system over the subsequent four years. Experience of previous reforms and transformation programmes Mr Harper: The coalition agreement made clear that has shown that thorough operational testing is essential we will regulate lobbying through introducing a statutory prior to a wide ranging implementation. As such we will register of lobbyists and ensuring greater transparency. deploy this ’pathfinder’ approach on the universal credit We remain committed to creating a statutory register programme. We will do so in good time to ensure of lobbyists and will publish a consultation paper next lessons learnt can be incorporated into wider month. implementation plans and delivery processes. This is a complex area, and we believe it is appropriate Additionally, as part of the work to build the new to consult widely on the form and content of a register system, claimants are being engaged in its design through before publishing draft legislation. 353W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 354W
Lisa Nandy: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister which I have not made an assessment of AWM’s role in external organisations he has consulted on proposals negotiations with Jaguar Land Rover which resulted in for a statutory register of lobbyists. [76978] the company’s decision to locate its new engine plant at the i54 site. The decision by Jaguar Land Rover to Mr Harper: The Government publish details of Minister’s locate its engine plant at the i54 site in Wolverhampton meetings with external organisations routinely.The Cabinet and South Staffordshire was facilitated by a range of Office publishes this data online at: national, regional and local stakeholders. http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/ministerial- Apprentices gifts-hospitality-travel-and-meetings-external-organisations James Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent progress he BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS has made in achieving the Government’s objectives for apprenticeships. [76851] Automotive Industry Mr Hayes: This Government are committed to expansion Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State of its flagship apprenticeships programme. The Statistical for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will assess the First Release published today demonstrates fantastic viability of the UK automotive industry. [76870] growth and a record year for apprenticeships. Provisional data for the full 2010/11 academic year shows 442,700 Mr Prisk: The UK automotive sector is strong and starts and completions reaching 171,500. growing. Production was up by 7% (in September); Apprentices: Manufacturing Industries exports stand at over 75% of output; and planned recent new investments by BMW,Ford, JLR and Nissan total over £2.5 billion. Stephen McPartland: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what proportion of Advantage West Midlands: Wolverhampton the 100,000 apprenticeships he proposes to create he expects to be within the manufacturing sector. [76725] Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Mr Hayes: The apprenticeship programme is demand Innovation and Skills (1) what representations he has led. Government do not set targets for apprenticeships received from Advantage West Midlands on the (a) i54 but provides funding and forecasts the overall number site, Wolverhampton and (b) the potential location of of places that may be afforded. Apprenticeships are Jaguar Land Rover’s new engine plant at the i54 site paid jobs, therefore we rely on employers and providers since his appointment; [73159] to work together to offer sufficient opportunities to (2) when the land for the i54 site, Wolverhampton meet local demand. was acquired by Advantage West Midlands; [73160] In the last five years 180,000 people started an (3) what estimate he has made of the (a) funding apprenticeship in engineering and manufacturing and (b) time allocated by Advantage West Midlands to technologies. With current initiatives such as the expansion remediating the i54 site, Wolverhampton (i) before and of advanced and higher apprenticeships, and increased (ii) after the announcement of the abolition of the funding announced in the 2011 Budget, we hope to regional development agencies; [73161] expand this further. (4) what assessment he has made of the role of Advantage West Midlands in negotiations with Jaguar Business: Recruitment Land Rover on locating its new engine plant at the i54 site, Wolverhampton. [73162] Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has Mr Prisk: BIS officials are in regular contact with the made of the accuracy of the estimate contained in the regional development agencies (RDA), including Advantage British Chamber of Commerce Workforce Survey—Micro West Midlands (AWM), on a range of matters and Businesses, that one in two micro businesses found it issues, and these may include matters relating to individual difficult to find the right people to fill their vacancies; project issues like the i54. and what steps he plans to take to assist such businesses. The land for the i54 site in Wolverhampton and [76674] South Staffordshire was progressively acquired between 2002 and 2007 by AWM, working with a range of local Mr Hayes [holding answer 25 October 2011]: The partners including Wolverhampton city council. The 2009 National Employer Skills Survey identified that site transferred to the Homes and Communities Agency small businesses tend to have a higher proportion of (HCA) on 19 September under the Housing & Regeneration total vacancies that are skills shortage vacancies. That is Act. AWM has been involved in the remediation and why the Department has launched a number of targeted wider site works which have been under way since the measures to support smaller businesses to recruit new initial acquisition of the site in March 2002, including employees and up skill existing employees more easily. securing outline planning permission for the site. AWM This includes improving the information and guidance spent £52 million out of a BIS approval of £64 million for small businesses on businesslink.gov, including how up to the point of the announcement to abolish the to access skills support. In addition, we fund a leadership RDA. A further £4.5 million was earmarked for additional and management programme for senior leaders of small remedial works between the announcement of the abolition to medium size enterprises to help them develop their of the RDA and the site’s transfer to the HCA. own personal leadership and management skills so they 355W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 356W are better able to create a high performing, innovative Mr Davey: I am currently consulting on changes to workplace and to improve the skills of their work force. the narrative reporting framework to simplify the framework This Government are also taking action to make it and improve the quality of company narrative reporting. easier for small businesses to take on apprenticeships. I would be happy to consider any specific points that As well as increasing funding to deliver some 360,000 the hon. Member wishes to raise as part of the consultation. apprenticeships this year, the Government have introduced new quality standards, cut red tape and boosted the Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for number of advanced level apprenticeships to deliver the Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what enforcement skills employers need to drive growth. measures his Department has taken to ensure that UK companies abide by the reporting requirements contained Business: Regulation in the Companies Act 2006; [76957] (2) what external assessment mechanisms are in Claire Perry: To ask the Secretary of State for place to ensure the (a) validity, (b) veracity and (c) Business, Innovation and Skills what recent progress he completeness of information provided in the annual has made in reducing the burden of regulation on reports of UK companies. [76959] businesses through the Red Tape Challenge. [76852] Mr Davey: The primary responsibility for the validity, Vince Cable: While some regulation is necessary, veracity and completeness of the information in the excessive regulation creates an unacceptable burden, on annual reports of UK companies rests with the directors. small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in particular. Shareholders should also be actively engaged in holding The Government are tackling this problem through the directors to account. Red Tape Challenge. So far this exercise has looked at For larger companies, external auditors will express 378 regulations relating to the retail and hospitality an opinion on whether the annual accounts give a true sectors and we have already announced plans to remove and fair view; have been properly prepared in accordance or simplify 220 of these—that’s over half. All regulations with the relevant financial reporting framework; and affecting business will be featured on the website on a have been prepared in accordance with the requirements rolling basis. of the Companies Act 2006. The auditor must report on whether in his opinion the information given in the Common Customs Tariffs directors’ report is consistent with those accounts. Statutory auditors are themselves independently monitored. Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for In addition listed companies are covered by the Listing Business, Innovation and Skills whether his Department Rules, made by the UK Listing Authority. has estimated the potential additional custom The Financial Reporting Review Panel proactively administration costs to UK businesses exporting goods reviews a sample of public company and large private or services to EU member states if they were required company accounts for compliance with the requirements to pay the EU external tariff; and if he will make a of the Companies Act. Where there is, or may be, a statement. [75041] question of non-compliance, the panel engages with companies with a view to seeking corrective action Mr Prisk: No estimate has been made. There is where necessary.In addition, both the panel and Companies uncertainty as to what tariff UK exporters to the EU House respond to concerns raised. Where appropriate would face if the UK were not a member of the European the Secretary of State for Business, Information and Union. Skills can use powers under the Companies Acts to At worst, UK businesses could be forced to pay the conduct confidential, fact-finding investigations into most favoured nation tariff to export goods to the EU. the activities of live limited companies anywhere in the In 2009, the simple average EU MFN tariff was 5.3%. United Kingdom. But it is possible the UK would be granted some form Official receivers and insolvency practitioners are of preferential access, whereby UK business would pay required to investigate the circumstances of failure of less than the full MFN tariff. In either case, tariff companies and establish why they have become insolvent. payments would also depend on the precise pattern of This could uncover evidence of inappropriately prepared trade in any given year. In addition, estimating the extra reports and accounts. administrative burdens associated with completing customs declarations, claiming preferential tariff treatment or Directors of limited companies are required to deliver other non-tariff costs of exporting goods and services accounts and reports to the Registrar of Companies to the EU could be done only at disproportionate cost. under the Companies Act 2006. If a company fails to deliver its accounts and reports by the appropriate date all persons who are directors of the company immediately Companies: Annual Reports before the end of the reporting period are guilty of an offence; unless they can prove that they took all reasonable Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, steps to comply with the requirements before the end of Innovation and Skills (1) what recent assessment his the period. Companies House send reminder letters and Department has made of the quality of companies’ e-mails before accounts become due to help companies narrative reporting under the provisions of the Companies comply with their filing requirements. If companies fail Act 2006; [76898] to file on time, Companies House commences enforcement (2) if he will assess the effect on the economy of levels action, which can ultimately result in the prosecution of of low quality, unverified and incomplete disclosure in directors. When a company delivers accounts late, an companies’ narrative reporting. [76899] automatic civil late filing penalty is imposed. The latest 357W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 358W figures show (September 2011) that over 92% of active Mr Hayes: We exchange views regularly and the companies deliver accounts on time and 99% of active Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, companies have an up to date set of accounts filed at my right hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham Companies House. These are among the highest compliance (Vince Cable), is well aware that design and technology rates of any company registry in the world. are crucial to the Growth Review.
Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Flexible Working Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the Financial Reporting Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Review Panel in assessing the (a) quality, (b) validity Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions and (c) completeness of the content of non-financial he has had on his proposals for maternity and paternity reporting in annual reports required by the Companies leave and flexible working. [76857] Act 2006. [76958] Mr Davey: The Modern Workplaces consultation ran Mr Davey: The Secretary of State for Business, from 16 May to 8 August 2011 It outlined the Government’s Innovation and Skills, my right hon. Friend the Member proposals to introduce a system of flexible parental for Twickenham (Vince Cable) has every confidence in leave and extend the right to request flexible working to the effectiveness of the Financial Reporting Review all employees, following the coalition commitments. Panel. During the consultation discussions were held with various groups representing business, unions, parents, children and charities. We intend to publish our response Departmental Official Hospitality early next year.
Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Green Investment Bank Innovation and Skills how much his Department spent on hospitality for events hosted by each Minister in his Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Department in each of the last 12 months. [73676] Business, Innovation and Skills (1) when he plans to announce the Government’s investment priorities for Mr Davey: There has been no spend on hospitality the Green Investment Bank; [76927] for events hosted by BIS Ministers during this period. (2) when he expects to establish the governance The following amounts refer only to the cost of refreshments framework to set the strategic priorities for the Green at meetings: Investment Bank; [76930] (3) when he plans to publish (a) identified objectives, £ (b) identified areas of focus and (c) budgeted costs October 2010 0 associated with increasing the capital for the Green November 2010 31.50 Investment Bank. [76935] December 2010 to June 2011 0 July 2011 35.35 Mr Prisk: The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation August 2011 26.60 and Skills, my right hon. Friend the Member for September 2011 67.30 Twickenham (Vince Cable), will update the House on these and other issues associated with establishing the Green Investment Bank later this year. Departmental Voluntary Work Green Investment Bank: Operating Costs
Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Innovation and Skills what volunteering (a) he and (b) Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has other Ministers in his Department have undertaken as made of the running costs of the Green Investment part of the One Day Challenge; what the nature of the Bank in each of its first five years; and how these costs work undertaken was; on what dates it took place; and will be met. [77032] what the names were of the organisations assisted. [76226] Mr Prisk: We will establish an institution which is effective and affordable. We are still in the process of Mr Davey: BIS Ministers are committed to participating scoping the strategic priorities and finalising the cost in the One Day Challenge. A decision on the disclosure estimates. of related activities will be made in due course. Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill Design: Curriculum Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills when he intends to bring forward Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for the Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill; and if he will Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions make a statement. [77183] he has had with the Secretary of State for Education on retaining design and technology within the curriculum; Mr Davey: We aim to introduce a Groceries Code and if he will make a statement. [75467] Adjudicator Bill as soon as parliamentary time allows. 359W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 360W
Insolvency this year, a commitment for over 360,000 Apprenticeships, and funding for projects through the Growth and John Glen: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Regional Growth Funds. Innovation and Skills if he will assess the merits of holding a consultation on preventing ransom payments being charged by suppliers in insolvency cases. [76448] Social Mobility
Mr Davey: The Government have previously announced Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for that we would consider the case for updating section Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his Department 233 of the Insolvency Act 1986 and the wider issue of is taking to improve social mobility; and if he will make termination clauses. My officials at the Insolvency Service a statement. [76602] are currently looking into the merits of any change and the options that could entail, and have been discussing with various interested parties. We will then decide how Mr Prisk: The Department worked closely with the to proceed. Cabinet Office and other Departments to produce the Government’s Social Mobility Strategy in April 2011. Non-domestic Rates This strategy set out our overall approach for tackling social mobility and provided details of the specific steps Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for that the Department would be taking to support this. Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has Investing in people’s skills through education and made of the effect on economic growth and jobs in (a) training is a key driver of improved life chances. That is the retail sector and (b) other sectors, if business rates why we are committed to establishing clear career are not increased in 2012. [76051] progression routes built on well-respected vocational qualifications and our expanded Apprenticeships Mr Gauke: I have been asked to reply. programme is at the heart of this: funding in financial Business rates are annually uprated by RPI inflation. year 2011/12 will increase to over £1.4 billion; we will The Government keep all taxes under review. increase the quality of apprenticeships through new national standards; and, the Access to Apprenticeships Nuclear Power: Storage pathway will benefit up to 10,000 vulnerable young people aged between16-24. The National Career Service, Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for to be launched in April 2012, will help people to find Business, Innovation and Skills what funding the Research the most appropriate route to suit their personal needs. Councils UK Energy Programme has allocated for research For some people, entering the labour market and on the storage and containment of nuclear fuel in the progressing can be a huge challenge and need substantial last year for which figures are available. [77093] help and guidance to develop their skills acquisition and progress to sustainable employment with prospects. Mr Willetts: In the current financial year, Research Our reforms to further education, published in our Councils UK Energy Programme funding on research Skills for Sustainable Growth strategy and in the New for the storage and containment of nuclear fuel amounts Challenges, New Chances consultation, mean that funding to £6.75 million. of further education and training is fairer by refocusing it on those that need it most. My Department is working Nuclear Reactors: Research with DFE and DWP on the Participation Strategy, which will be published in November and set out how Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for we intend to maximise the number of young people in Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer education training and employment. In addition, our of 10 October 2011, Official Report, column 278W, on commitment to Informal Adult and Community Learning nuclear reactors: research, what proportion of total can provide the initial stepping stone people need to energy research expenditure by the Research Councils further. UK Energy Programme the £23 million spent on the Our reforms to promote fairer access to higher education next generation of nuclear reactors represents. [77088] were set out in the White Paper “Students at the Heart Mr Willetts: The current Research Councils UK Energy of the System” (June 2011). To help make progress in Programme portfolio totals £658 million. The £23 million the numbers of young people entering higher education represents 3.5% of this total. from disadvantaged backgrounds, and in particular to the most selective universities, we are establishing a new Skilled Workers: Wind Power framework, which places more responsibility on universities and colleges to widen participation. Universities and Gordon Henderson: To ask the Secretary of State for colleges that charge more than £6,000 for tuition will Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking need new access agreements that demonstrate to the to increase the number of people with skills in the wind satisfaction of the independent Director of Fair Access turbine industry. [76856] what more they will do to attract and retain students from under-represented and disadvantaged groups. They Mr Hayes: A skilled workforce is vital to the green will also need to participate in the new National Scholarship economy. As we set out in the skills strategy, we have Programme from 2012 and provide matched funding. made sure employers can identify and articulate their Further information on the specific commitments, green skills needs within the skills system. That is supported milestones and success indicators are provided in the by investment of £3.9 billion to deliver skills and training Social Mobility Strategy. 361W Written Answers27 OCTOBER 2011 Written Answers 362W
Supermarkets: Competition Mr Willetts: The 27 meetings of the TSB’s Governing Board that have been held outside Wiltshire have been held at the following locations: Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for London (19 times) Business, Innovation and Skills what recent representations Marlow (Buckinghamshire) he has received on the role and powers of the proposed Brackley (Northamptonshire) [76985] groceries adjudicator. Brussels Oxford Mr Davey: I have received a wide range of representations Babraham (Cambridgeshire) on the role and powers on this subject. There were Edinburgh 60 respondents to the formal 2010 consultation divided Guildford (Surrey) as follows. Newport Pagnell (Buckinghamshire) London has been used as a location most often due Number to its transport links and easy access for the governing Trade bodies 21 board members. Individuals 14 Third Sector Large retailers 10 Non-governmental organisations 4 Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many letters he has received Government bodies 3 on funding for civil society organisations within his Religious groups 3 Department’s area of responsibility in each month since Charities 2 1 June 2010; and if he will make a statement. [73987] Suppliers 2 Legal 1 Mr Davey: I understand the hon. Member to mean civil society organisations. Additionally, BIS officials and I have met a range of The Department does not separately identify ’civil interested parties to discuss this subject. society organisations’ so therefore cannot provide a response without incurring disproportionate costs. Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Technology Strategy Board Innovation and Skills how much direct funding his Department provided to each civil society organisation it funded in (a) 2010-11 and (b) 2011-12; how much it Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for plans to provide in (i) 2012-13, (ii) 2013-14 and Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer (iii) 2014-15; and if he will make a statement. [74842] of 20 October 2011, Official Report, column 1154W, on the Technology Strategy Board, where the Technology Mr Davey: The Department does not separately identify Strategy Board met on each occasion that it met “civil society organisations” so therefore cannot provide outside Wiltshire. [77087] a response without incurring disproportionate costs. ORAL ANSWERS
Thursday 27 October 2011
Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 447 BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Apprentices...... 460 Royal Mail ...... 447 BAE Systems ...... 455 Science Funding...... 450 Construction Industry...... 455 Scientific Research ...... 459 Entrepreneurship ...... 457 Seaside Towns ...... 458 Exports ...... 451 Small Businesses ...... 461 Manufacturing...... 448 Stem Cell Research ...... 456 Manufacturing Skills...... 454 Topical Questions ...... 462 MPharm Qualification...... 460 Westminster Hall ...... 149WH Regional Growth Fund ...... 453 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS
Thursday 27 October 2011
Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 15WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 18WS Apprenticeships (Progress and Delivery)...... 15WS Ascension Island...... 18WS Prevention of Torture 2011-2015 (FCO Strategy) .. 18WS
DEFENCE...... 16WS HEALTH...... 19WS British Nuclear Test Veterans...... 16WS HIV/AIDS ...... 19WS Submarine Dismantling Project ...... 16WS TRANSPORT ...... 20WS Rail Franchising...... 20WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 17WS TREASURY ...... 15WS Official Report (Correction)...... 17WS Extraordinary ECOFIN ...... 15WS PETITION
Thursday 27 October 2011
Col. No. Col. No. EDUCATION...... 3P Khalsa Academy (Slough) ...... 3P WRITTEN ANSWERS
Thursday 27 October 2011
Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 353W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Advantage West Midlands: Wolverhampton ...... 353W Skilled Workers: Wind Power...... 359W Apprentices...... 354W Social Mobility ...... 360W Apprentices: Manufacturing Industries...... 354W Supermarkets: Competition ...... 361W Automotive Industry...... 353W Technology Strategy Board...... 361W Business: Recruitment...... 354W Third Sector...... 362W Business: Regulation ...... 355W Common Customs Tariffs...... 355W CABINET OFFICE...... 337W Companies: Annual Reports ...... 355W Civil Servants: Business Interests ...... 337W Departmental Official Hospitality...... 357W Departmental Private Finance Initiative ...... 337W Departmental Voluntary Work ...... 357W Former Prime Ministers: Allowances ...... 338W Design: Curriculum...... 357W Government Departments: Procurement ...... 339W Flexible Working...... 358W Government Procurement Card ...... 339W Green Investment Bank ...... 358W Social Enterprises...... 340W Green Investment Bank: Operating Costs ...... 358W Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill ...... 358W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 302W Insolvency...... 359W Departmental Private Finance Initiative ...... 302W Non-domestic Rates...... 359W Domestic Violence ...... 302W Nuclear Power: Storage...... 359W Private Rented Housing ...... 302W Nuclear Reactors: Research ...... 359W Travellers: Dorset ...... 303W Col. No. Col. No. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 318W HEALTH...... 279W Arts: Broadband ...... 318W Contraceptives ...... 279W Charitable Donations...... 319W Diabetes: Young People ...... 279W Departmental Assets...... 319W Domestic Violence ...... 279W Departmental Manpower...... 319W Health Services: Overseas Visitors ...... 279W Departmental Regulation...... 319W Influenza: Vaccination ...... 280W Education ...... 320W Ipswich Hospital: Private Finance Initiative...... 280W Legal Opinion...... 320W Postnatal Depression: Huddersfield ...... 280W Liverpool Vision ...... 321W Primary Care Trusts: Empty Property...... 281W Museums and Galleries: Tees Valley ...... 321W Sex: Health Services ...... 281W Tourism: Manpower...... 322W Social Enterprises...... 281W UK Film Council: Apprentices ...... 322W UK Film Council: Manpower...... 322W HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 312W Alcoholic Drinks: Prices ...... 312W DEFENCE...... 323W Animal Experiments ...... 313W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 323W Counter-terrorism ...... 314W BAE Systems ...... 323W Counter-terrorism: Finance ...... 314W Business Interests...... 323W Crime: Disability...... 314W Departmental Procurement...... 324W Drugs: Misuse...... 315W Departmental Security ...... 324W Police: Bureaucracy...... 315W Enterprise Zones...... 323W Police: Manpower ...... 315W Horn of Africa: Piracy...... 325W Police: Olympic Games 2012...... 315W Iraq: Peacekeeping Operations...... 325W Rape: British Nationals Abroad...... 316W Old Drill Hall...... 326W Terrorism ...... 317W RAF Lossiemouth ...... 327W Syria: Military Aid...... 327W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 317W Social Enterprises...... 317W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 352W Zimbabwe ...... 318W Electoral Register...... 352W Zimbabwe: Overseas Aid...... 318W Lobbying...... 352W JUSTICE...... 327W Alternative Business Structures...... 327W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE...... 299W Crime: Victims ...... 327W Carbon Emissions...... 299W Criminal Injuries Compensation ...... 328W Departmental Procurement...... 299W Departmental Interpreters ...... 328W Energy: Prices ...... 299W Domestic Violence ...... 328W Nuclear Energy Co-operation ...... 301W Insolvency: EU Action...... 329W Kennet Prison ...... 330W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Offenders: Rehabilitation ...... 330W AFFAIRS...... 285W Police Stations: Prison Accommodation ...... 331W Aggregates Levy Sustainability Fund...... 285W Prison: Probation...... 331W Agriculture: Manpower...... 286W Prisoners: Pay ...... 331W Bats...... 286W Prisons ...... 331W British Waterways: Pensions...... 286W Probation: Manpower...... 332W Common Agricultural Policy ...... 287W Probation: Training...... 335W Common Fisheries Policy ...... 287W Public Sector...... 336W Dairy Farming ...... 288W Sentencing: Children...... 336W Departmental Legal Opinion ...... 289W Dolphins ...... 290W SCOTLAND...... 285W Fish Farming ...... 291W Departmental Correspondence ...... 285W Fly-tipping ...... 291W Family Intervention Programme ...... 285W Food: Nature Conservation ...... 292W Food: Waste...... 292W TRANSPORT ...... 282W Inland Waterways: Bridges...... 293W Departmental Billing ...... 282W International Whaling Commission ...... 294W Departmental Magazine Press ...... 282W Pesticides...... 295W Departmental Procurement...... 282W Rivers: Pollution Control ...... 297W Domestic Violence ...... 283W Septic Tanks...... 297W Invalid Vehicles: Safety ...... 284W Sharks...... 298W Railways: Snow and Ice...... 284W
FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 303W TREASURY ...... 306W Argentina...... 303W Bank of England: Correspondence ...... 306W Argentina: Falkland Islands...... 304W Council Tax ...... 307W Argentina: Freedom of Expression ...... 304W Economic Situation: EU Countries...... 307W British Indian Ocean Territory: Assets...... 304W Financial Services: EU Law ...... 307W Iran: Capital Punishment...... 304W Green Investment Bank ...... 308W Iran: Higher Education...... 305W Members: Correspondence ...... 308W Israel: UN Resolutions...... 305W National Insurance Contributions ...... 308W Libya: Rendition ...... 305W Private Finance Initiative ...... 308W Sri Lanka: Defence Equipment...... 306W Private Sector: Job Creation...... 309W Yemen: UN Resolutions...... 306W Public Expenditure...... 309W Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY—continued WORK AND PENSIONS—continued Public Sector: Pay ...... 309W Departmental Lost Property ...... 345W Social Mobility ...... 310W Departmental Procurement...... 345W Stocks and Shares ...... 310W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 346W Taxation...... 311W Departmental Voluntary Work ...... 347W Taxation: Property ...... 311W Disability: Public Transport ...... 347W VAT: Tourism...... 312W Housing Benefit: Scotland ...... 348W Jobseeker’s Allowance ...... 348W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 340W Remploy...... 349W Access to Work ...... 340W Universal Credit...... 351W Departmental Buildings...... 341W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,
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CONTENTS
Thursday 27 October 2011
Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 447] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills
Eurozone Crisis [Col. 469] Statement—(Mr George Osborne)
Business of the House [Col. 490] Statement—(Sir George Young)
Council of Europe (UK Chairmanship) [Col. 505] General debate
BAE Systems (Lancashire) [Col. 575] Debate on motion for Adjournment
Westminster Hall NHS Care of Older People [Col. 149] Debate on motion for Adjournment
Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 15WS]
Petition [Col. 3P] Observations
Written Answers to Questions [Col. 279W] [see index inside back page]