Minnesota Youth Gang Research Project Minnesota Historical Society

Tape 85 Interview with LA 24 year old Black and Native American Minneapolis Vice Lady

Interviewed by Kate Cavett Hand in Hand Tuesday November 24, 1998 Shakopee Correctional Facility .05 KC: Introduce yourself to me please. LA: I'm (name), 24 years old an I currently reside at Shakopee Woman's Prison .. KC: And what name can I use? I think: I explained to you I always use anotherProject name. What name can I use for this interview? LA: Just call me L.A. KC: Lwhat? LA: L.A. KC: L.A. Okay. How old were you when you first became aware of gangs and became attracted to them? Society LA: Probably eight. Research KC: And kind of what I want to you do is tell me your story about how you got involved. You started watching them at eight, when did you start hanging around with them? LA: When I was nine. Urn, basically really got bad when we moved to Minneapolis. Urn my mom and dad have always been drugGang addicts, alcoholics, so they weren't never around. So my -- my family, my friends were you knowHistorical my fellow, ya know, whatever gang members or whatever you want to call em. KC: The other kids on the street whose parents were.... weren't around very much either? LA: Well, no it wasn't necessarilyYouth the people was just .... well you could say that, neighborhood kids I guess. I don't know. KC: I don't want to put words in your mouth, ya know. Sometimes my job is just to clarify, but I certainly don't want to ..... so you started hanging out with gang members, what gang? LA: Vice Lords. KC: Have you always beenMinnesota affiliated or interested in Vice Lords? LA: Well, that's ..... them were the people that I could relate to. I grew up ..... I grew up with the Bloods,Minnesota the Disciples, I've grown up wid em all, but people that I click with was the Vice Lords, ya know. Filer Cotton is my cousin an people know him, ya know, I just was more into wid the Vice Lords period. An them were the people that I hung out with, stole with, ya know, lived in abandoned houses with, robbed people with, I mean, we did everything together. 2.29 KC: What was most important for you about being with the Vice Lords, or being with your friends that you were hanging out with all the time?

LA: Well I didn't have to explain myself to nobody for one. It wasn't. .. really back then it wasn't a choice of us kids jus bein .... runnin away from home, it was mostly cuz no parents were there an if they were there you were better off not there for the, ya know, being afraid of gettin abused or whatever, so ya know, there was this security we had for each other. We became each other's family, weJa know, we loved one another, we took care of one another down to the food, to the clothing. U m ..we taught each other a lot..•• street wise, ya know. How to make~,guns out a rubber bands an paper clips an all that, ya know, we taught each other all that stutT. So it was just the••. the•.• the sharing an the bonding, that's what we had 3.17. KC: Wow. So this starts at nine years old and this ... that sharing and that bonding has been with you all the way to 24? Project LA: Yes, an it's still with me now. KC: That's something you can't walk away from is it? LA: Well, a individual becomes ... it becomes to you like a religion. It's .... it's like urn ... like that.. .. a security blanket or somethin, it's.... don't know it's just different. I mean, some people look at it like oh, they just ya know want to be tough -- it's not like that. It's not a thing -- you just one day decide you wanna do, it's somethinSociety that goes wich you. Urn .... it's not out a fear that I don't leave it, because it's not.Research Ya know, my thing is if anything scares me I'm either gonna try to beat her up or tackle it or leave it alone. An it's not somethin that intimidates me it's just. .it's .... it was like my mother when she wasn't there, ya know. It's ... it has a lot offeelins and security with it. I don't, ya know, wish it for everybody, ya know becuz it's not somethin you can justGang pick up. It's somethin that goes wich you. KC: You have children don't you? LA: Yes, I do. Four young daughters. Historical KC: What are their ages? LA: Three, four, six an seven.Youth KC: Do you want your daughters to grow up and have this same kind of security and support? LA: No, I don't. KC: Can you speak to that? LA: Well, I don't but chances are, ya know, their father is a CVL just like me. Urn .... I'm sure they ... they hear about it.Minnesota I mean, I don't want them to grow up wid it, but I...I can't control my kids, I can't control what their gonna do, but, ya know, I would like to get out there an hopefullyMinnesota durin this time that I'm incarcerated change enough to where I'll be able to have some skills, ya know, and a better idea of, ya know, bein strong within myself to show them a ..... different things in life, ya know, just being there period, cuz my parents weren't. So I think, you know, a person's presence an absence has a lot to do with that. KC: Urn huh, I agree. When I do training sometimes I'll talk about how gangs are excellent parents. That they're some of the best parents that you see because they spend so much time with you nurturing you and training you how to do the skills of the street. Would you agree with that? 5.52

LA: Well, I'm not a bitter person and I don't dwell on the past, but ya know the upbringin that I have had, which is basically been just hard core, ya know, no feelins, ya know I wasn't really allowed to show .. J wasn't . .it wadn't no time to be a punk:. It was no time to be that, if you would, I wouldn't be here today, ya know. Um... J had to endure some stuff, I'm not bitter for it, but urn, I don't know. I've had some significant people in my life, but it seems like no matter what you do you end up in prison, becuz the ... the beliefs that I have it...it doesn't follow in suit with .... ah ... normal society so to speak or whatever. So I don't know, I.. .. I'm not sure if I understood that question. KC: Well the question was do gangs do a goodjob ... you gave a great answer. .. but do gangs do a good job of parenting kids, of raising kids, of nurturing kids when their parents don't? 6.56 LA: It's a ... it's a different kind a nurturing .. .it's completely .. you do getProject love but you get it in a different way. Urn when you're .. when you ... when you grow up without it, who's ta say if it was normal or ifit was better or ifit was right. It was nurturin that's all that really mattered ta me. So I mean, to Tom an Betty that live out in Mendota Heights, an their kid is in college that wouldn't... the way that I was, ya know, raised or treated, whatever, might not be ... they ... it would probably be horrific to them. Or, ya know, whatever, but I can't say whether it is or whether it isn't, ya know. I'm here, I survived, ya know.Society KC: Survival's an important word, isn't it, when it comeResearch to the street life or the gang life? LA: Yeah ... that's your instinct. I think: it's everybody's natural instinct to survive an ... when I was growin up that.. .. that was the thing, ya know. The parents weren't there so I had to survive. Whether it was going in the store with a big coat on with my homies stealin ten steaks, 25 pot pies, havin my friend go an steal myGang pads, my tampons, that's ... that was survival. It got me in trouble sometimes when I got caught, but it was survival. Livin in abandoned cribs .. like fifteen of us young kids, that was survival,Historical ya know. Survive ... yes, it's everybody's instinct to survive an you've got to. KC: Did your parents get soberYouth at any point in you growing up? 8.34 LA: Well my mom's still a alcoholic but. ... no, she hasn't. Urn .. my dad finally turned his life around in 1985 when me, my .... me, my little sister, brother an my older sister -- me, my older sister and my younger brother were all in juvenile an my dad was currently in Hennepin County Jail at the time, whichMinnesota he later got sent to work house for a hundred an somethin days or whatever. That's when he was like, oh, no, I gotta change. He turned ..... yeah, he's turned hisMinnesota life over, but my mother hasn't. KC: So you were about ten years old then? LA: Yeah. KC: So dad got sober, did that make a difference in your life, or was he working so hard on his sobriety that he really couldn't come back in and start being what you needed as a dad? LA: Well, my dad was the kind a dad, he was just there. We were to be, ya know, seen not heard. He's a look good dad. Urn ... he's always been ya know more in tune with his self When he did get sober, yes, it was like oh, his new life began an it was no place for us kids, except for my younger brother, in his new life.

KC: So your life continued, the same? Is that painful for you? LA: Yeah. But life goes on. KC: Who's been there for you the most, to support you to help, you while you're here, while you were growing up? LA: Well, people I met along the way basically. Ya know, that's it. I'm not in tune with my dad's family too much, ya know. I'd see them at family get togethers if, you know, if we see em. My mom .... he's been there, but I mean, she's ..... me and my mom get along better at a distance urn cuz I been through so much with my morn, but urn ..... I don't know, basically just me. I .... .I don't know. KC: Were you initiated into CVL at some point in time? 11.02 LA: Yeah. Project KC: How old were you and what was your initiation? LA: I was nine and I hada do somethin I can't talk about. KC: So you perfonned an event and then they said okay you're now in? LA: Uh-huh. You're in under a code a silence, that's it. KC: Speaking of code, if I ask you any question and you don't want to answer it, or you can't answer it, just say I can't answer that instead of bull shitting Societyme or trying to dance around it okay? That makes it easier for both of us, otherwiseResearch I might keep digging and I don't want to get you in trouble. LA: KC: Well, ya know, get you in trouble with the organization or with the law. Those early years, nine, ten, eleven, twelve what wasGang your involvement with the organization? How many were there, were most of you about the same age? LA: No, the ages, urn, it was a variety of ages.Historical Up to 45, 50, 60, on down to nine, seven .... I mean, we were all different ages. It was all different ages. So it wasn't just one age. 12.24 Youth KC: Well it sounds like very much ofa family, an inter-generational family that you didn't have in your biological family. LA: Uh-huh, that's what it was. KC: Were the 45 year olds parenting you Of...... LA: Yeah, they were. OneMinnesota of OUf.. .. he was like our ..... we called him our uncle, ya know, an he's ... he's ... this how you boot leg, ya know. This is how you gotta make money because ya knowMinnesota .... .I mean, yeah. You better be in this house by ten o'clock, ya know. Ya know it was an apartment right there, right downtown on Hennepin. It was above one ofthem stores or whatever, ya know, so we're right there in the ... in the ... in the mix of everything, so I mean, yeah it was ... yeah we had a variety of ages. An most of em were like, ya know, nurturing, ya know, trying to teach us gang street smarts, ya know, an whatever. So yeah there was some. KC: Were you involved in a lot of crimes at that young age? 13.28 LA: Yeah. Everything down to car jackin to robbery to stealin cars to burglarizin. First time I

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went tojail,juvenile was for burglarizin a house. A police officer's house as a matter offact. KC: Did ya know it was an officer's? LA: No, I didn't. No, it was a shock. Ya know, here I am 11 years old, my brother's8 we're gettin hauled offta Saint Joe's, th~ tried to put us there. An one night we ran from there three times an then they finally came and took us to juvenile. So I had no idea it was a police officer's hoose. KC: Was somebody there and you got caught on the spot or...... LA: No, we_put all kind agan..,g stuff all on the walls. It was on the news, in the paper. Um .. .I don't know how they knew. So and so said somethin, I think it was, cuz one of the guys that did it with us too was older an I think he ran his mouth. Then they came and got us tryin to get us to roll on him an the other people an we wouldn't say anything. So that's how that went. That was not too-i11la.11. Project KC: Did you learn from that one? LA: Yeab. I learned. You wear gloves or somethin next time. If! was ever to do that, I mean, it was stupid, I mean, I don't know. Bunch a kids burglarizin a police officer's house was pretty dumb I would say. KC: How old were you when you started using chemicals, alcohol, marijuana, any chemicals? LA: Let me see I was probably like 10, cuz I used ta sip my mom'sSociety wine cooler's, beer, whatever. Sneak the roaches out the ashtray, steal money,Research go by the dollar joints, all the works. 15.13 KC: Have you used a lot of chemicals? LA: Not a lot like .... I mean, like, some things I hear of around here -- mostly weed, Hennessy that's it. Weed, Hennessy, Old EnglishGang beer. When I was like 11 we used ta have that little vial a rush or whatever an sniff that, but nothin like crack or PCP. Oh.... I did Sherm a couple of times, that happy stick, that waterHistorical they call it. I did that but nothin like heroin, nothin real drastic, no. Cuz where I'm ... you do that you're getting your arm broke. In our click we don't do that shit,Youth you don't. KC: How -- when you were using chemicals the most, how much were you using? And how often? 15.58 LA: Well I was ..... I'm pretty much a born alcoholic anyway. I can drink a pint of Hennessy by myself A 40 ounceMinnesota an a half or two 22 ounces. Urn I could smoke a half ounce a weed to a ounce a weed myself a day. I was mostly every day because I had ... my life had became urn something I was running from. KC: WhatMinnesota made your life something that you were wanting to run from? LA: Urn probably after my first two kids dad went to jail for that Hoffkillin. Urn .... that was a ... that was... my family ... my, I guess, when I.. .. cuz I got let out in urn 1990 from bein locked up as a juvenile for four years, so urn I began my first family. I had my first daughter in 91 and I had two daughters by this man. An ab ... he went to jail an my security was tooken away, my family was destroyed I felt like it. An, I just got into another bad relationship ... well the bad relationship out a loneliness, had two more kids by this other man. And it was just oh, this man just. .. myself esteem was shitty, I was just. .. .just a wreck. Then that relationship

broke up so after that ya know I sent my kids to their dads, like here I didn't have these kids by myself it's your tum what not. And I just had nothing to live for. I mean, I .... my life ... I was really started gang bangin really bad, started doing a lot. ... a lot a crazy things, a lot a crazy things. Things I would be in here forever for. 17.45 KC: Why are you here? LA: Well currently I'm here for shootin somebody. KC: Since you've been charged for that, do you want to tell that story? 18.03 LA: Well this person that I'm .. J'm charged with shooting a girl in SA, that was south Minneapolis. This was a girl that sexually molested me when I was nine years old, so I mean, at times I feel no .... I'm like the bitch deserved it to put it quite frankly,Project but at the same time, ya know, I can't go around shootin people, but majority of the time everything tells me that's what she gets. Cuz I'm a real resentful person I don't forget anything. I don't forget nothing. KC: What's an SA. LA: What's a who? KC: You said SA. LA: SA, Super America. Society KC: Ob, at the SA -- okay. That was the first thing Researchthat flashed through my head and I thought ob, .... then maybe I thought you said she was an SA and I'm going. So, obviously she didn't die? LA: No. KC: Did you just see her and you knew thatGang she was the one that had hurt you and ... ? LA: Well, I had seen her many times before. She use ta live in the same buildin as me but at that time I was on the verge a gettin kicked out,Historical people were lying sayin I was selling drugs, which I wasn't. But ya know, this is my first apartment, I didn't want to wreck it so I ... .I didn't do anything. I always knew,Youth at the age a nine, when it happened I knew one day I'm gonna get her back. I didn't call the police, I did nothin. Cuz where I grew up you just don't do that, you handle stuff on your own. I knew one day I would get her. An the day that I seen her, I was goin through a lot, ya know, I was just. .. I mean, obviously that really doesn't have anything to do with it, but I just. .. J just felt like ya know, I just wanted to deal with her at that point in time. MinnesotaAnd that's when I dealt wid her. KC: How much older was she than you? LA: AboutMinnesota four or five years or somethin. KC: How badly was she hurt? LA: Ob, she was just shot if her hip, but .... I guess she was hurt. KC: Was that your intent just to scare her and wound her and create some pain for her? LA: Yes, cuz I mean I was like three .... I would say six feet away from her ya know, I could a easily shot her in her head ifI wanted to. But I just told her - I bet you don't molest anybody again, now you see how that shit feels, ya know. Cuz at the time I had tried to fight her back or tried to do everything, ya know. She had these boys who restrain me, ya know, throwin lit matches in my hair, bumin me with cigarettes, ya know. The more I would try to fight

back the more she would, ya know, try ta ya know do stuff to me and try to get the boys to do stuff So ya know, I just wanted her to know that, bitch I ain't never forgot. I've seen her plenty a times, but I have never forgot what she did, never. KC: Was she a CVL? LA: No. 20.50 KC: So when she created this abuse on you, was this a gang thing from another organization? LA: No it was not. It was just.. .. - it's time to pay thing. That's all it was. KC: I mean when you were nine and she force herself on you and had these boys abuse, I mean, it sounds like not only sexual abuse but physical abuse and emotional abuse. Was she in a different organization and they were trying ... this was a gang thing back when you were nine. LA: No it was just a straight...1 don't know what... a sick thing for her. I Projectdon't know what it was. But I just never forgot. It wasn't no gang thing or anything. KC: How did you happen to get arrested? LA: They caught me. I told my homies ta just roll off, ya know what I'm saying, cuz I wasn't trying to get them caught up. Just dip off, ya know, an some people followed me to where I was. I just ditched the gun and when the police came an got me I say -- Yeah I did it, ya know, an this is why I did it. Society KC: How do you feel about it now? Research 2l.58 LA: I don't feel anything. KC: Are you glad you had a chance to do your revenge or do you wish that you weren't here at this time? Gang LA: That's a hard question because if ... .it's like .. .ifI wouldn't have been here for this, I .. .I'd have been here for something else. I wasHistorical out there crazy. She's lucky I didn't kill her. She's very lucky. KC: Why were you so crazyYouth at that time? LA: I don't know. KC: At some point is it going to be useful for you to figure that out so you don't go back to that same spot? LA: Well it ain't just .. .1 can't just pinpoint one reason why. It was just. .. my life was a wreck. It. . .1 can't pinpoint one reason.Minnesota It was a whole bunch a stuff built up at once. It was a whole bunch a stuff It was... it was a bowlin ball. I mean, it was a snow ball, I should say. It was justMinnesota a whole bunch a stuff at once. KC: Do you consider yourself chemically dependent? LA: No. KC: When you were using a lot were you high most of every day? LA: That's a trick question. Well, it depends, probably like three days out a the week I was tore up. Depended upon what I was doing, who I was with, ya know most a the time I was just selling dope, makin money. That's what I was doing most a the time, or kicking it with some nigger or somethin. But I mean, three days out a the week, yeah, I was pretty tore up I would say.

KC: Have you ever done treatment? 23.54 LA: Here, I've done treatment. KC: Was it useful for you? LA: Yeah. But it pretty much told me everything I already knew. I'm ... I'm a very insightful person. I know what I do, why I do it, when I do it, ya know, I can read people like a book. I can read myself, ya know. I mean, it was .. .it was or I did .. .I really didn't like it cuz I don't like tellin people my business anyway. Especially the people in here. People will learn somethin about you an tum it on you so fast it ain't even funny. You can forget confidentiality. If they get mad at you or their friend don't like you or something -- oh, girl don't trip over her cuz this girl she woo, woo, ya know. I didn't, ya know. I think it's more just leamin to be strong within myselfya know. It's okay to be sadProject or whatever but I ain't trying to dwell on stuff, but I just gotta figure out what it is I wanna do in life. KC: Any ideas? LA: Well get out of here, one. Urn- KC: When does that happen? 25.01 LA: February 27th, 2002. Urn .... I'd like to, I don't know, I.. .. I loveSociety music. I can sing, I can, ya know do ... .I'm musically it's just ... I'm there. AnythingResearch to do with music but I would like to work with kids or somethin or ya know do some type of program ya know to where I own a studio, urn ... in a school type setting, kids can work to use the studio, ya know. Ifyou like to do with music well you gotta do this. Ya know, people from ... kids from the inner city type thing. I wanna to work with Gangkids cuz I can relate with people. Especially with small children. And I don't want to just, ya know, to relate with everybody's else's kids but my own .... like some people I know. Historical KC: You want to relate with your kids and other people's? LA: Uh huh, yep. Mine comeYouth first though. 25.58 KC: You talked about using a weapon. What all weapons would you carry over the years? LA: Oh, um ... knives, big butcher knives. Well, we used to cut little holes in our coat, boy, you'd think we was Chuckie or somebody Jason or somethin .... butcher knives, mostly guns, though. Nines, APMinnesota Nines, some sawed-offs, it depend, mostly, I would be the one mostly getting ... well, carryin the guns. I have five guns on me going in the club, ya know, giving emMinnesota to the brothers or whatever, ya know, I'm the .... I'm always strapped all the time. I would say that's somethin I'm proud of because type of lives .... I never know who might try to come get me or somethin. KC: Why were you the one that was always strapped and then giving them to the brothers? LA: Because that was the role I played. I was already strapped so you might as well give me a gun. Ya know, I really didn't care. KC: Did you find that being a woman you could carry guns and you wouldn't get searched where the men would? LA: Yep, yes.

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KC: Where were all the places you'd hide your guns? LA: In between my thighs urn underneath my arm pit, in my waistband, underneath my breasts, in between my breasts, on top of my breasts. I .... .I'm pretty slick. KC: Did you ever get patted down by an officer and they didn't find the guns you had? LA: Yeah. 27.23 KC: How much of the time? LA: I've never gotten caught. If, if ... there was only one time I got caught an that was when it was stupid, I was rollin in the car, me an three a my brothers who was in the car an ah ... this .. .I'm out on bail for this crime I'm here for now, an my guns in my inside coat pocket ya know. We're high ... gettin high smokin weed in the car rollin around dope everywhere, ya know. Got pulled over, got pulled .... well I'm the only one without aProject damn coat on. Oh, ya, look at this here .... pull out the damn gun with my coat. I'm claimin it ain't mine, I'm the only one without a coat on so that was pretty stupid. But it didn't have no bullets in it, it was only a revolver so that was better. They dismissed that since I been here. KC: Since we're kind of talking about police, what's your opinion of police? 28.23 LA: They're full a shit. Society KC: And, is there anything the police can do to addressResearch the issue of gang violence? LA: Not really. Urn, of the police are not for us in any kind a way or form .... the majority of em. Ifthey... .ifthey... three was only one police officer since I ever got pulled over where ... boy, we had gun, weed, every damn thing in the car. They took the car but they let us go, didn't even pat us, search us, search the car,Gang anything, but they just kept the car and that was a black police officer. All the rest of ern, they either lookin ta... okay let you go, you cut a deal type thing. They're very sneaky, they're not forHistorical us at all. They're not to be trusted period. They're not. They are not for the people in any way ..... there's nothing they can address to me or to anybody I know. They'reYouth full a shit. KC: When you say they're not for us, are you speaking about gangs, blacks, women or people. 29.32 LA: I'm speaking for women, people a color, period. If you're a crack head an your white on Lake Street they're not for them either. Now ifyou're out here somewhere paying taxes, then maybe they be for you,Minnesota but other than that they're not for you, they're not. KC: So they're not for you if you're doing any criminal activity? LA: Nope,Minnesota they don't even want to begin to understand or relate or nothin. KC: If they did or those few that would begin to understand and relate, what difference would that make? LA: Well, they ... they .. they'd be a one man army amongst their own because it's ... it's a dirty game and it's a dirty world. A lot of people are looking to get promoted, ya know, they get promoted off a .... off a civilians, off a the criminals, that's how I feel about it. I'm not anti cops or whatever, but I just don't trust em. They're sneaky and they're connivin. KC: Those that might be up front and honest, would that make a difference? I mean their job is to stop crime. But I think what I hear you saying is that they promote crime in a different

way? LA: I believe the government an politicians are the biggest criminals there is. Personally. Them FBI's an all them BCA people, they go under cover an will smoke crack just to get a big ... a big sting. So I mean, that. .. this whole question that you just asked me is a no win situation anyway. Cuz there's no way that I would even begin to trust a damn police anyway. Maybe if I met them in a different setting, in somewhere else down the line an not under these circumstances, it'd be a different thing. But as long, long as they're coming to me as a authority figure I will never respect them. KC: Have you ever met anybody in authority that you felt was worthy of your respect? 31.38 LA: No, no, no. I would say no. Only person that I met, an that's when I was growin up in juvenile,Project her name was Fleeta Arling. That's the only person that has, of authority, she was a guard in JC, an that's the only person I respect that was of an authority figure. Now, a psychologist or somebody, ya know, different like somebody workin here, that would be a different thing, ya know. Cuz most a the people, some a the people that work here, they're respectful they're not on some power trip, ya know, and they're not out ta get you. KC: Tell me now about how they act and how that makes a differenceSociety for you. LA: Who? Research KC: The people here that are respectful. 32.31 LA: Well they take the time to talk to you. For instance, I won't say their name, I don't want ta get em ... get em in trouble, but urn, likeGang my lieutenant in my unit she ... when you're in trouble, you're in trouble, and she let's ya know. She speaks you in a tone that enforces authority, you know -- okay, this woman has the authorityHistorical to kick my butt out this parentin unit, that's quite clear, you know that. An she'll let you know in a tone, but on a different level like you're havin a hard time or somethinYouth she'll speak to you an you know, well ... she'll relate to you in a certain way that, ya know - damn this woman's human too, ya know. And it's not that she's ... you know it's her job. If you wouldn't be here, you wouldn't be givin her a damnjob ta do. But you know she still respects you, ya know, take time to inform you about information, ya know. I respect that, ya know. I don't expect her to have favoritism or anything, but longMinnesota as I show her respect as a woman an a human being, ya know, I expect her to give it back to me an that's what she does. Most of these staffhere do. KC: Good,Minnesota good description. You said that two of your daughters' father was arrested for the Hoff murder. Is he in prison then for the Hoff murder? LA: Well, it was around the Hoff .. well, he ... there was another man, that Edward Harris, that came up missin that the Vice Lords believe was snitchin to the police. That's the one that he initially got tooken ta jail for, which in their eyes is the same damn thing. They got him for aiding abetting. No he is not, he's the only one that gotta acquitted on that. But the Feds come kickin in his door every now an again tryin to get him for receivin stolen property for anything they can get him for. So, no he's not but he ... he walks a thin line no matter what

he does. 34.23 KC: So it sounds like you obviously were involved with CVL before the Hoff murder and after the Hoff murder. What was life like during the heat of all of that time? LA: It was like a big media crap. I go downtown, go to court, I got cameras on me, I got -- oh, you're one of the Minnesota eights fiances, or...... that's what they were calling them then. It was a ... it was a devastating time. I mean as a human being you're gonna feel a loss of another human being, ya know, an I know my affiliation, but I was kind of like oh, shit, ya know, this is really big an you got police comin an kickin in your door, throwin you down, kickin you in your ribs, punchin you, ya know, that's what happened to me. An comin straight from my photo album, ya know, it. ... it's like damn, I ain't shit to them, ya know what I mean? It doesn't matter if I was not there pullin the trigger, I'm one a theirProject women ,so I ain't shit. First thing they said when they raided my house -- oh, we got cop killers living here, bitch get down on the ground. An I'm like what. .... an that's when they came an through me on the ground. I didn't know what the hell was goin on. Ya know, an this is after the fact that my kids' dad was in jail that they did this. But before that they would come like they were cousins walkin right in the house looking for him, ya know. Then we finally went an turned had him in, ya know, I went down with my kids dad .... it wasSociety like we gotta see what they want, ya know, but .. .it was .. .it was... .it was hard.Research And even now it's, ya know, I'm .... sure I'm pretty.. .I have .... ya know, I went through a lot an it's affected me due to the fact that ya know, I was lonely at that time, I felt weak, I didn't stand by my kids' dad an L.I started another relationship an that was a big mistake. He's another, a different CVL brother, so ... he wasn't shit. An it's like, ya know,Gang I mean, just.. .. just.. ... for both of them relationships there's been consequences. 36.32 Historical KC: What kind of consequences? I assume you mean consequences for you and your daughters? LA: Well, it's like no matterYouth what after them.... well I still got my brothers an sisters, ya know, I still got my fellow members, ya know. Um..... I can't even begin to explain it. KC: What was it like for the organization to heal after being so ripped apart with the Hoff murder? LA: What was it like to heal? Well-- KC: Or has the organization healed? LA: With anything there'sMinnesota gonna be trials an tribulations an ya know at that time it was shocking, every... an ya know.... so then we had alL ... it was like we got broke up an then..... cuz we got, weMinnesota got Vice Lords, but we got A VL, CVL, MCVL's, I's..... L . .IVL's, we got all kind a different, ya know, all kind a different branches, so sometimes we tend to get clicky, well we're C's, you I's, we don't have, ya know, we got our chief, we don't ride wich you all, ya know, we got .... and that's how we got. Everybody wanted ta be the power, ya know, the next man, Sharif was, hada lay low, ya know what I'm sayin. So everybody wanted to be the ... the ... the big man. It's like ... we got a ... we got ..... we gotta lot of chiefs but not enough Indians, ya know. So ya know that power thing, ya know, a lot a things started happenin. We loss a few of our brothers, ya know, a few brothers got killed. Ya know, my brother-in-law got killed, one a my little homies got killed. A lot of things started happenin

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amongst the body. We had to wony about our own. KC: I've heard that after Sharif was arrested an taken to jail that that's where a lot of the wars were, in dividing .... redividing up the territory, is that accurate? LA: Yes, it is. KC: Has that settled out now? LA: To a certain extent I would say cuz we got brothers going in the fed joints left and right. We gotta lot of our brothers gettin locked down. So ya know everybody's on a paper chase. So we really ain't trippin it. .... you can't gang ban an make money. You know, you gotta do this or you gotta do that, ya know. So ..... I don't know. KC: I think I told you when we talked before, my bias, my prejudice is that I don't like the gang violence, cuz people are getting killed. I can understand the organization and the attraction to it and I can understand the values and the belonging. The violenceProject isn't okay with me. What would be effective to prevent kids from getting into the gangs because ofthe violence? Or, to promote people in laying low and quitting doing the violence? Is there any way that we can reach some of these elementary school and junior high kids? LA: You have to be in the schools. You have to most definitely be in the schools. You gotta be like a big bill board advertising some type a ad version program for these children ... um ... at a very young age this stuff starts. It has ..... a child can be gettinSociety physically mentally abused at home an that's all it'll take for them ta go theResearch other way. Ya know, you have to be in the schools is my idea, ya know. You have to be in the neighborhood, you have to be pickin em up, goin down the street in a yellow big bus encouraging these kids to go to church. You have to be in .... you gotta be hands on... out there with them kids because it starts at a very young age. Gang KC: You mentioned church. What's the role of spirituality and helping people heal from the gang violence? Historical 41.04 LA: What is the role in what?Youth KC: You mentioned church, where does church, your spirituality fit in? LA: I'm talking .... nowadays that's not even taught to kids. Kids don't even know about that. They know, maybe hear God once in awhile or, ya know, their parents might when they want to go on the wagon they take them to church, but our kids aren't taught about that no more. I know I really wasn't.Minnesota I've been learning it since I been here. I. ... .I've always talked to my God all my life since I was a little girl, ya know. But that's something that I had within myselfMinnesota But most of these kids, we don't have religious values, we don't have that. Kids aren't being taught that these days. KC: Ifyou had been taught that, do you think that the path ofyour life would have been different? 41.57 LA: I can't say no, an I can't say yes. But if somebody would a came an talked to me when I was in school, an came to me on a level that I could relate to .... at a sincere level, that could a helped me, that would a helped me. I was being abused by my mother, physically, mentally abused ya know. I was the only one, out a us three, gettin abused an my sister tried to give it a go to the principal, but 1.. .. .I knew that ifl went and told our principal, he wasn't gonna

do nothing but call my mother an then I get another whoopin, so why would I go tell him, ya know. But maybe ifthere was somebody that would a came an talked to me ... somebody that was like me and would ... would make some type a resources for me, -- well, okay, we got this good program going on here an it's every ... after school we come pick you up an we take you out an we do activities and who not, this and that, that would a helped me. But it wasn't there. An I'm not blaming it on nobody, but I mean, if we want to help the youth of today that. ... somethin has to be there for these kids. KC: And I think I hear you saying it needs to be there not superficially or once a week, but actively there? LA: Yeah it does. I mean, cuz I know there's a lot a people that would like to do stuff with kids. I would, ya know. But there ... for one it's not the funded ..... maybe ifit was one of them .... what's that word? Non-profit organization type things an I think that'sProject funded through the government or somethin? How do they get that paid for? 43.32 KC: Different organizations get paid different ways, Yeah. Some are non-profit and some are through the government. What did it feel like when you heard about the Hoff murder? 43.51 LA: Shock probably. Yeah, it was a shock. Especially when theSociety (unclear) an them came out an said - ob, you waitin for Steve Banks, I said, yes.Research They said well you'll be waiting 30 to 40 years for him. That was a shock for me. A very big shock. Cuz, rve heard ... .1 mean, I peek things an I know the ongoings but for them ... for them .... for it just to be said to you like that is a big -- ob, my God it's getting deep, ya know, I mean that's serious. KC: This was when you were waiting toGang see him in jail just visit him or -- LA: No we had went down to the urn ...... I think it was the homicide burglary, robbery unit or whatever they have down in the ... underHistorical the clock an we ..... they had been comin to my aunties house where I was living looking for my kids dad, left and right. I be drivin our Cadillac they'd stop meYouth everywhere I went, comin up this way, that way, six different directions, cuz we lived on a one way -- I'm like, ob, my God. Ya know, an I was just told Steve, we got to get this, ya know, we gottajust go down there an -- it'll be better if you tum yourself in. And that's what we did. KC: Steve is your kids' daddy? LA: Uh-huh. Minnesota KC: And you still love him? LA: Yeah.Minnesota I always will love him, I guess. KC: And there's some regrets that you didn't follow ..... hang in there with him? LA: Well it's like when a person tries to teach you loyalty an they're not loyal yourself, well they really ain't teaching you shit. So that's kind a what the case was with him. You can, you tell a person you love em and it's like with him I was, I was loyal to this man, he was a hoe, a tramp, you know. Would bring me like chlamydia or somethin, just a disgusting man. An, ya know, he wanted a down ass bitch or in his words ya know, ya know somebody to stand by him, but if you can't stand by me when you're free, ya know, how can you expect me to do that. And when he went in I was just devastated, I was like my family was tom apart, ya

know. And we were on bad terms as it was when he went in so it was like I was lonely an felt weak. An that's the only thing I regret, I don't regret not standin ... ya know I still got him his suit for trial, took him a hundred dollars every two days ya know, took care of him that wise, but I was not his woman no more I just, you know, I just ... I don't know. Time changed. KC: When he was arrested is that when you found out about all his hoeing? LA: Oh, no. KC: You always knew? LA: Yeah. But I just "stood by your man" whatever you wanna call it. KC: Did you have rank in the organization? LA: Did I who? KC: Did you have rank? Project LA: Yeah I do. KC: Can you share that with me? LA: Uh uh. KC: Okay. Do women get rank in CVL as easily as men? LA: Nope. 47.02 Society KC: Why is it so much more difficult for women to getResearch rank? LA: Well, the men run the world so they say, it's a man's world. Um... we're looked at as more sensitive, um ... our feelins could trigger us ta do just what we shouldn't do, ya know. Women tend to think with their feelins most a the time, that's what they think ... half a these men .. KC: A woman can be a lot more loyal, can'tGang they? LA: Yeah, loyal an ...... KC: How much harder did you have to workHistorical to get your rank than you watched other men? LA: I really didn't have to work that hard becuz I would do on the trigger type things anyway. I mean, I was impulsive asYouth hell. I didn't sit there an contemplate much, I mean it. .. money wise I would sit there an contemplate. I mean, Conservative, you're more, ya know, you use your mind more, but I mean, I ..... a lot a times the brothers didn't have to wait for somethin to jump or somebody to handle that because I would be the one to do that, ya know. I have no problem with shootin somebody, I have no problem with killin somebody, I have no problem with settin it off, I Minnesotahave no problem with none of that, ya know. An that's why I get my respect because I mean I have that, I can be ruthless, ya know, so to speak. KC: I'veMinnesota heard a lot and I've heard about your organization that any of the women in the organization had to be available sexually to Sharif, is that accurate? 49.00 LA: Oh, my God. That is a big fat lie. Whoever probably told you that themselves was a tramp, an ain't no real sister anyway. That's ... they wanted to be available to Sharif cuz they wanted ta be. They felt like that would get them somewhere, that's on them. But, that is not true. KC: What is the role of women that aren't able to be tough at all times? Are some women there to be sex objects for the men? LA: Oh, wow. That's funny, I've heard it all now. Oh, wow, I can just picture Ielcol(sp) saying

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that.. KC: Picture who? LA: Eyecho, this old bitch, trick . She's not here, she didn't make it here. She ran her mouth. Um what would be -- what? KC: Well, I've interviewed some women who have talked about being used sexually on a regular basis by the guys and then other professionals have talked about your organization that, everybody's girlfriend in CVL had to sleep with Sharif 50.29 LA: That is not true. I have been knowin Sharif since he got out, an corresponded wid him before he got locked, before he got out. But I was there day one when he got let out which was in 90, I believe it was 90, or was it 91 when he got out well .... whatever. At no time was I ever approached an I'm .... I'm Conservative, I carry myself in a ladyProject like manner. I'll be in a skirt, whatever, but I will, I will deal wich you if I have to. But in no way was I ever approached by any brother. I have two kids by two CVL brothers because I chose to. Ya know, I'm not no nation hoe, I ain't trying to fuck all the brothers. A woman chooses to do that. I'm not sayin that.. okay, my, my .... this is my mend and she decides to tell me one day that she got raped by all the brothers, I'm not going to sit here and say, well you tramp. I'm not like that an that attitude but most of the females that I haveSociety known that have tried they wanna be around our click, listen to that myth, Researchoh, you got to get sexed in. That is a myth, ya know. But I feel that most a the women, can judge a character an most a them, that's just how they are. They like ta..... they like ta fuck, plain and simple. KC: So there are some women that choose to be hoes in the organization? LA: A nation hoe, a nation hoe, that's whatGang they will be. An I'm not being judgmental but I mean, that's what they do. They like to have, we have some straight hoochies. And they ain't no sisters. If they want to think themselvesHistorical that since they fucked half the brothers that they want to be a sister now, that's on them. But they're not. I know real ones, ya know, real ones know me. You gotta knowYouth lit, you gotta know, not ... you .... hand shake is the surface, but you gotta know lit, you gotta know all type of certain things an if you don't, you claim to be what you are, you gettin a mouth shot, you probably gonna get rolled out on because you phoney. So just cuz you go around sexin half these brothers an want to get on this micro phone, that I'm on right now, an fake like you somethin that you ain't, that's on you. That's really on you. Minnesota 52.48 KC: AreMinnesota there some brothers that will be out there saying -- oh, ya you can, ifyou have sex with all of us then you're down, and it's just a scam? LA: Well, most the only people that I heard that do that is the Disciples. They worship the devil, serpents, an all this an that. So them the only, that's the only people that I know for a fact do do that. But amongst us, hey if you go for that you a hoe, that's on you because that's not, a dumb person would believe somethin like that. I was young, at a young age an I never got came at like that. I've had bad experiences from my mom bein Folks, an people that I just happen to know my mom would try to ya know, come to me like ya we gonna, ya know, we gonna bless her in. Some folks, ya know what I'm saying, play her hittin on me cuz I was a

Vice Lord and they knew that, ya know. An I, ya know, I've been raped before an everything ya know, by just becuz, just because a the fact. That's what they do, and I don't get down like that, ya know. I ain't gonna give you my body just to be accepted. That's truly what a lot of women choose to do though, for real. Cuz half of these women they won't have nowhere to live or, ya know, you never know what the circumstance be. But as far as women be .... that's a damn lie. Cuz I used to be over there at Sharifs house an everything. A lot a these women would tum, throw themselves on Sharif, an that is a lie. I can't believe these people. KC: Did some Folks rape you because you were CVL? LA: Yep. KC: Is that one of the ways of retaliating and violence in the gang world? 54.28 Project LA: Yes, it is. KC: Do just GDs do that or does that go on among all different groups? LA: I've never seen that happen within my people. We have never did that. That's not acceptable. That is not acceptable with us. That is not cool. KC: At this point who are your major rivals in Minneapolis? LA: What do you mean rivals? Society KC: The organizations that you tangle with the most.Research LA: Probably the Bogus Boys an the Family Mob. KC: Bogus Boys and Family Mob connected? LA: No they're not. But in '96 they were cool, they was homies, ya know, they use ta hang, ya know, cuz a lot a stuffhappened. I shotGang a few a them, I shot a few a them niggers in the park, in PV park where we all use ta be. An, it was cool hangin then, but now they, now they killin each other an that's how it goes. I said HistoricalI give ya all a year, you'll all be killing each other, watch. KC: Do you know what happenedYouth that created them to be in rivalry? LA: Everybody wanted the power, everybody wanna be the top notch, everybody wanna be the baddest. That's what that was. People, urn ... that one Byron got killed, ya know, with that little girl over in Saint Paul, that kicked off a lot a stuffbecuz they was knowin each other's info, ya know what I'm sayin. Homie get caught up on a dope case they gonna tell on they ... they ... they supposedMinnesota ta be homies, ya know what I'm sayin, so these homies find out that these homies one of they little people over here is snitchin, so that's how a lot a that got started.Minnesota KC: Now, they've prosecuted the shooters for Byron, but they haven't prosecuted the shooten for the little girl in Saint Paul. Do you know what did that? LA: Yeah, he's already in jail for somethin else though. But they ain't never gonna find out. KC: So it's common knowledge on the street who were the shooters? 56.30 LA: Yeah, well, not any .... just anybody knows, but if you in .... ya know. Especially if you be bangin wid em. I'm a female, I know a lot more than I probably should know. KC: She says that with that special little grin of hers.

How as a female do you know a lot more than you should know? LA: Cuz I can get up under em. I can .... I'm more dangerous than a man. Cuz ifl got an enemy over there, two brothers ain't gonna sit it there an be around each other, ya know what I'm saying. I'm a female, I can know that if it came down to it, if I was shootin at one a your homies, you would shoot me, but I know at the same time, too when your homie ain't around, you might want to get in these panties, ya know what I'm saying . So I'm gonna play you real close. I might get you, I might take you to a hotel, leave your brains blew out on a pillow or somethin .... becuz I can do that, ya know. A man will fall weaker to me than he will to a man. KC: Do you know how to use all of your female prowess. LA: Umhuh. KC: Do you get a lot of people to talk without having to give them whatProject they want? 57.5- LA: Yep. Yeah, I don't.. ... I mean, I don't.. .. most a the time, ya know, I can kick it with anybody, ya know, but if they know you fuck with one of mine it's on, bottom line that's how it is. And, I don't really hang with too many homies out there, too many females; my brothers we cool, but I got like a handful of my sisters that I watch out for. Most of the sisters they come and go anyway, becuz they ain't real. Society KC: In your organization are the sisters a separateResearch organization or are you all on the same organization with the same rank structure? 58.25 LA: Good question. Um... you go back to the days when the CVL's was back in Chicago, when they was helpin out the community,Gang when they used to throw, ya know, pot lucks or whatever. Back in the 60's, the CVL's, used to be on that stuff, ya know what I'm sayin. They was like a little Black Panther all onHistorical their own, but they was for the community. They was feeding the old, ya know what I'm .... the elders an whatnot. There's been books, there's books .... it's the Vice LordYouth Ladies, we stand -- we are individuals, we stand by ourself at all times. Ya know, we do have chiefs, ya know what I'm saying? But the brothers ain't always righteous, ya know what I'm saying. That's why we don't say almighty, we say mighty becuz not everybody is almighty, ya know what I'm saying. But when it comes down to it us sisters will roll against some brothers at any time because they is not to violate us in any way, nobody is. So us sisters,Minnesota we will roll out by ourselves if we have to because nine times out of ten it's the women doin it anyway. KC: SoMinnesota your organization name then would be Mighty Conservative Vice Lord Ladies? LA: No, I'm a Conservative Vice Lord period. I'm a Conservative Vice Lord period. But my sister, like my best friend in here, she is a -- she a A VL. I'm gonna roll with her before I roll with any of them brothers, period. Cuz she come first. My sister comes before my brother at anytime. KC: And I think what you're saying is if any of your sisters get disrespected or violated by a Vice Lord or anybody else, the sisters will roll on that person? LA: Yes we will, yes we will. It's been done. We ... we have more respect out there right now, even behind these bars, than any of them brothers. Than any of em. Cuz when we was gang

bangin with them Family Mob niggers an them Bogus Boys, it was us out there shootin them niggers an doin all that, wadn't none of dem brothers coming to our aid. Now that we come in jail an us two main sisters is locked down, now they want to start comin together and all that, ya know. So we will roll out on them brothers or anybody else that chooses to cause harm to us. We don't go out there lookin for trouble, but all we was on was our paper chase. An when them niggers tried ta, ya know, clown us an act crazy, most a the time it be becuz they can't fuck us, ya know. And them brothers too -- ob, ya all ...... well so what, we ain't no nation hoes, ya know, you all ain't about nothin, all you all want ta do is argue amongst each other or go shoot somebody. We .... we tryin to take care of our kids, ya know. Cuz ya all ain't doin nothin for us ..... an that's how it is. KC: Sounds like you get angry at the brothers? 10l.12 Project LA: No, I just ... .I just ... when I talk about, ya know, stuff that serious, to me I get excited. My adrenaline gets pumpin. KC: What else do you need to talk about? LA: I don't know. I'm locked up. KC: Where are your kids? LA: They're with their dads. Society KC: Are their dads doing a good job? Research LA: No. Nobody's gonna take care of yours like you would take care of em, but I'm locked up an this whole lifestyle is an addiction. The whole gang bangin lifestyle is an addiction. People don't understand that. People don't know that. ... it's not -- oh, you come in here you get saved an you're through with that life.Gang It's not.. .. that's not how it works. Not for me it doesn't. It ain't no joke. 102.07 Historical KC: What kind of support do you need to get away from that addiction? Because real early on that was one of the firstYouth pieces we saw in this research. How do we create programming to help you get away from the addiction? LA: I need ta be with people that I can relate to, positive people. I'm a positive person, but I don't forget where I come from, ya know. I .... and I can't sit here an lie an say tomorrow I'm gonna be this saved, non gang bangin person, I can't say that, cuz if somebody was to try to hurt my dog, I can't.. . .I ain'tMinnesota gonna sit there and let nobody do nuttin to her. I'm trying ta change, but it's hard. It's, it's very hard to change. Especially when you got family that don't do shit for you,Minnesota they promise to come see you, they promise to send you money. My family hasn't sent me shit since I been in here. Only person that was sendin me money is my, is my people. So what the hell do they expect, ya know? I mean, it's, it's, it's hard. We need ta be able to have time to talk amongst each other. If they had a group in here for the real people in here, that was real bangers, that would ease a lot a the tension, ya know. Sit down an talk about some real stuff, some real-- not some all girl woo woo ..... well, yeah maybe talk about what you use ta do, but how can you do it different. Or, what you gonna do to do different. In here you just got to sustain shit, follow the rules an sustain it. Don't get dealt with. You deal with stuff amongst yourself, but a lot of people need to vent an talk to people. An there's

nobody you can talk to like that. I figure goin out tellin my story ta people that will help me change. I'm not -- I mean, we all got the gift of gab to sit an make somethin sound good, but thas all you can do in here, there's no way to ... to make it happen here. That's why I'm tryin to do the tour guide to talk to people, show em the institution. I'm .... I'm hopefully in early December gonna get on the speakers, where we go an talk to kids at schools. I'm tryin to make an effort. That's the only way I will change is getting hands on, that's hands on for me. It's different. People don't understand that gang bangin ain't somethin you just decide .... wake up, you wanna gang bang one day. It's just. ... it's somethin that you just .... there. One day you're like, damn . .I'm a gang -- I'm bangin, it's real now, I gone an did some shit, ain't no - I can never forget about this what I did to get in it. I can't take back what I did to get in it. This is what I got to do now and people don't understand. 104.45 Project KC: Do you think when you get out you can stay away from the pieces that create the adrenaline rush, that create the passion, that create the excitement in your life? LA: I gotta find new ways to release that adrenaline. I'm the GI Joe type female. I like to carry guns, go join the army, be all I can be type shit. Vietnam type shit. I like that type of adrenaline stuff, drive-bys, runnin from bullets, I like that. I mean not, I don't like it, but it gets that going so I'm addicted to it now. I need ta find new waysSociety of releasing that. Whether it's goin an doin aerobics, that's not even fun to Researchme no more. I think it's ... just talkin to other people about it, that's what would help me. Ya know, I gotta find different ways to deal with this, or... for when I get out... I'm .... sure for awhile, ya know, if I'm just out there happy to be out with my kids, for awhile I could stay away from that, ya know lifestyle, but ifI'm not involved with (unclear) or some typeGang a people that are, ya know, giving me opportunity or something, then I'm not goin to change, I'm gonna go back to the same old shit I knew before. An I know ifI'm helpin people or somethin,Historical I'll ... .I'll do all right. Maybe that's why my dad is the way he is, ya know. He had to do what was good for him. An I understand that, I don't blame him for it, but Youthin the midst there's three children that were highly misled and left without, ya know, morals and shit, ya know KC: Sorry. LA: I'll be all right, I know I'm going to be all right. KC: Yeah I know you are too. Because you're bright. LA: (unclear) Minnesota KC: What I hear you saying is your whole concept is that of being a Vice Lord, that's your whole concept.Minnesota And you're nodding yes. What do you see as being the hardest part in walking away from that? LA: That loyalty, that. ... the whole lifestyle, the whole thing in one. It's just the whole thing. The whole thing. There's not one thing ... .it's the whole thing in general. It's me. It would be like leavin myself there, ya know, the unknown is always the scariest part. KC: Can you create a new family of recovering gangsters, that has the passion and commitment to each other, that you do for Vice Lords? LA: No. Becuz they'd have ta be on the same page as me. Now if they're united as one an informin an tryin to help other people then, yeah, I could.

KC: Could we create something like that with enough women that are committed to getting out, supporting each other, having a commitment for each other, a passion for helping other young women and helping each other get out? LA: Yeah, I believe we could. Long as they're real. KC: Well that's your job to make sure they're real. LA: Ya know I will too. KC: I know. We're almost at passage time. What else do you need to tell me? LA: Nothin. Have a good day. 108.52

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