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Home , Frank Zappa, Howard Kaylan

MAGAZINE SECONDS SECONDS #44, 1997 • interview by George Petros

GAIL ZAPPA

GAIL ZAPPA — proprietor of the Barking Pumpkin and Zappa record companies; wife of Francis Vincent (Frank) Zappa (1940-1993); mother of Zappa scions Dweezil and Ahmet (of the Rock Band Z), Moon (of “” fame) and Diva; spiritual administrator of Frank’s enormous musical legacy; ninth-largest individual entertainment-related donor to the Democratic Party, 1991 through 1996 ($218,000, according to The Times); and living repository of much of Frank’s ambiguous bitterness and calculated irony (but not so much of his sense of humor…). Gail, thanks for taking care of Frank through thick and thin so that he could take care of us.

572 “For the most part, in Rock & Roll are a lot more fun because they’re open about getting the job done.”

SECONDS: Can I kick this off by ZAPPA: I heard a chorus of voices and talking about The Real they said, “This is it.” Book and a few other books? SECONDS: He was a sex symbol in ZAPPA: It depends. Let me say this: I those days, if I’m not mistaken. don’t want to promote any book we don’t ZAPPA: I think you’re into some have anything to do with. fantasy. I never thought of him as a sex SECONDS: I’m also interested in your symbol. Frank promoted himself and the opinion of the Nigey Lennon book — band as a bunch of ugly guys who played ZAPPA: I don’t want to discuss that fantastic music. one. I haven’t read that book but let me SECONDS: But, as he relates in his say this: I think the means by which she book, he was a subject for the Plaster decided to promote it says much more Casters — about the author than it does about the ZAPPA: No, he doesn’t say that, and subject. he wasn’t. He just brought Pamela Des SECONDS: So you haven’t read it. Barres together with Cynthia Plaster ZAPPA: And I won’t. Caster because they both had a common SECONDS: It does allude to a interest, which was Noel Redding. relationship between her and Frank — SECONDS: Did you ever meet Noel? ZAPPA: That’s as close as she’ll ever ZAPPA: Yeah. get to a relationship with Frank — an SECONDS: I don’t want to offend you allusion. I anticipated books like that by placing you in the scene — and I’m sure other people are thinking ZAPPA: Why? I was a groupie. of doing them. It doesn’t necessarily SECONDS: Tell me about that. imply there was an ongoing relationship. ZAPPA: Every culture produces its SECONDS: I’m very interested in you own groupies — whether you’re a sailor, and I’m not trying to use you to get doctor, or movie producer — name a Frank Zappa anecdotes. Were you not the profession and it has its equivalent secretary of the Whiskey A-Go-Go? groupies. Talk to — even ZAPPA: I was a secretary for the guy a symphony director has their groupies. who owned the Whiskey. I worked For the most part, groupies in Rock & directly for Elmer Valentine, yes. Roll are a lot more fun because they’re SECONDS: And that was the point at open about getting the job done. which you met Frank? SECONDS: Had you any conquests as a ZAPPA: There was another girl who groupie prior to Frank? worked in the office part-time and did ZAPPA: There were some people who filing. I went to her house for dinner seriously defined themselves as groupies and, coincidentally, she shared a house and were devoted to honoring the people with Frank. He called that evening and who were involved with producing the said, “I’m at the airport. Come and get music. There were two types of groupies me — and don’t bring anyone.” in those days: the ones who wanted to Of course, she disobeyed and brought run away with the English Pop Star me. I met him at Airport. and have a castle, and then there were SECONDS: Was it love at first sight? the ones who just liked music and were ZAPPA: Yeah. Well, I have to say devotees of particular bands and they I always knew I was going to meet would literally service those bands. It someone extraordinary. I just knew that. was a religious experience for most of SECONDS: When you saw him, you those girls. The altar was Rock & Roll, knew he was the one. the guys were the gods and the women

573 G A I L Z A P P A were the high priestesses. The idea to work in the cane fields. Frank, of that we were exploring sexuality in the course, is Sicilian and Italian. Sixties — what that meant was there SECONDS: When Moon was born, did was no pressure to have any kind of Frank become more of a homebody? intimacy on a spiritual level. Physical ZAPPA: He was extremely prolific and intimacy doesn’t translate into real he always enjoyed working on his craft. intimacy. It was very easy to sleep with He became more financially able to somebody and much more difficult to explore different ways of recording and get to know them. What’s interesting to different musical ideas. It’s expensive me about the Nineties is that people are to be a composer and Rock & Roll is learning how to become intimate with what paid for his habit. It was a by- each other before they have sex. One of product of his real interest — writing the plusses about AIDS, if you can call music. Both Frank and I are straight- it a plus, is that it’s made it imperative ahead and conservative in terms of for people to establish relationships and what we consider the appropriate way take responsibility for what goes into to raise a family and conduct a stable that relationship, which didn’t happen in environment. the Sixties at all. SECONDS: How about your SECONDS: Then you became pregnant relationship with some of his associates? with Moon around 1967. ZAPPA: Which associates? ZAPPA: Yes, and I met Frank around SECONDS: My first inclination would 1966. be to say bandmembers. SECONDS: And you got married — ZAPPA: I thought it was a good idea ZAPPA: Right before Moon was born. to keep my distance. I didn’t want to SECONDS: Did married life change get involved with the private lives of your relationship? the band members. I had my children, ZAPPA: No, because he named me “Gail I had my own priorities to take care of. Zappa” from the very beginning. It didn’t Remember, everyone in the band was change much. hired by Frank. I never sought any of SECONDS: Was your first name them out as best friends. Some were far Adelaide? more amusing than others and some of ZAPPA: It still is. them have become friends over the years SECONDS: It’s a very lovely name. but I usually kept a solid distance. ZAPPA: Thank you. That was my SECONDS: Early on, there was a grandmother’s name. scene at your house where Motorhead SECONDS: What is your ethnic Sherwood and lived background? with you. Was that Frank’s scene and ZAPPA: My father’s side is a lot of separate from you? European mixtures, with some French ZAPPA: Frank and I were very careful and Irish but mostly Danish; I don’t about having our relationship not be know what else. His grandfather had part of the entertainment. come over from a little part of what SECONDS: How would his music have is now Germany. They didn’t want to been different had he not met you? be German, so they got on a ship and ZAPPA: I have no idea. Dweezil, Ahmet hightailed to Pennsylvania and became and Moon keep getting asked, “What potters. My mother’s background is was it like having Frank as your father?” that her family came from the island of Compared to what? Madeira, a Portuguese territory off the SECONDS: Did you have a tangible coast of Portugal. They went to Hawaii input into the music?

574 “If you leave your door open, eventually people show up, but that doesn’t mean there’s a scene.”

ZAPPA: I ran the business but Frank always knew he would say the right wrote the music for himself. Never at thing to the right person at the right any time did it occur to me to comment time and it would represent something on his musical ideas. The only thing I you felt deep inside of you. I don’t know ever commented on was how much I that there is a typical , but I think loved his music. most of them have a great musical SECONDS: Was there anything you appreciation and they are certainly in didn’t like about his music? touch with their feelings about what is ZAPPA: No. right and what is wrong. That’s what SECONDS: Did you like the jokes and defines a Zappa fan. the verbal pictures that he painted? SECONDS: How did your life change ZAPPA: I liked everything. when the kids became musicians? Were SECONDS: Frank presented songs about you now looking out for them, too? sex and love — ZAPPA: Looking out ZAPPA: Actually, for them, yes. I’ve Frank was always never managed any very clear that he member of the family. did not do love. SECONDS: What role SECONDS: How did you play in the would you describe development of Z? songs like “Titties ZAPPA: I was Frank’s And Beer”? assistant. ZAPPA: It’s based SECONDS: Are you a on a relationship. Z fan? Almost everything ZAPPA: Absolutely. It he wrote with a just resonates with me. story line was based SECONDS: What on fact. He was an commercial obstacles observer of human does Z face? Are there nature. labels that don’t want SECONDS: Who is a typical Zappa fan? anything to do with them because Frank ZAPPA: Anyone who was had previously sued the labels? disenfranchised. First of all, you have to ZAPPA: Most of those people aren’t realize that a lot of the appeal was that there anymore. The industry is very you could go and see Frank. You could different from when Frank first started. see him do things onstage no one before It’s run by people who don’t have ideas; or since had ever done. Every year, a they’re just looking at the bottom line new batch of eighteen-year-old guys now. It’s not a healthy environment for became fans and they stayed with him people who are creative. throughout their lives. SECONDS: How would Frank fare SECONDS: But it can’t only be today if he were twenty years old and alienation that’s common to the fans. wanted to cut a record? What obstacles ZAPPA: I didn’t say alienated; I said would he be facing? disenfranchised. In other words, you ZAPPA: Accountants and packagers. don’t feel you’re represented and there’s SECONDS: Wasn’t that prevalent back no one out there you can identify with. in 1967, too? Frank was always the guy who said ZAPPA: No, not at all. People played what you wish you could have said. You music in clubs and then somebody said,

575 G A I L Z A P P A

“Hey, maybe we should put a record out.” said his favorite band was whoever It was run by guys who liked the music he was working with at the time. He and said, “Yeah, I’d like to do something worked in his own universe; he didn’t with this band.” have any mentors. SECONDS: So how would Frank have SECONDS: If I name people from fared today? Zappa history — ZAPPA: He wouldn’t and that’s why he’s ZAPPA: Your version of Zappa history, not here now. He was of his own time. not ours. SECONDS: Where do you place him SECONDS: Mine I think reflects the historically? public interpretation of it. But I feel like ZAPPA: As an American composer. anyone I could name you’d say, “That SECONDS: Was he someone that stood was just a hired gun.” Who did he not outside existing feel was a hired gun? musical forms? Was there anybody ZAPPA: Yes, he’s an about whom he said, original thinker. “I have to work with SECONDS: He them no matter what”? brought Avant- ZAPPA: No. garde music to many SECONDS: Alright — people’s attention. how were you treated Thanks to him I found over the years? Varese; I even found ZAPPA: By who? the Cabdrivers? Microtonal SECONDS: How Band record. Perhaps, about by the wives of you’re aware this magazine has spoken other Rock Stars? to many of Frank’s cohorts, like Cal ZAPPA: I never hung out with anybody. Schenkel — My best friends are my kids. My best ZAPPA: These are people who worked friend was Frank but my kids and their for hire; they’re not cohorts. Let’s be friends have always been my closest clear about that. Frank recognized friends. I mean, I have a couple of long- talent in people that they didn’t even term friends, but they’re not wives of know they had. He had his own personal bandmembers or anything like that. We vision and he hired people to play his weren’t part of any scene. If you leave music and he hired people to render your door open, eventually people show the images he wanted to use to sell his up, but that doesn’t mean there’s a scene. product. He was his own marketer; he SECONDS: All the renditions of Frank’s even did the design of the packages. life with which I am familiar speak of From early on, he said, “A package needs his studio as being an “open house.” to tell the audience what they can expect ZAPPA: Well, a lot of work got done musically.” there. There weren’t a lot of people SECONDS: To whom was Frank close? cavorting and playing around. Who did he work with out of passion? SECONDS: What do you see in the ZAPPA: He admired people who were future for the kids? good at their craft and he loved working ZAPPA: What do you mean what do I with people who had a sense of humor. see in the future? What do you see in For a brief time in history, your future? and were great fun and SECONDS: Where do you see Z winding he loved working with them. He always up?

576 “Frank was always very clear that he did not do love.”

ZAPPA: I don’t think Z is designed to eventually be commercially successful. go on interminably. Like The Mothers, Without that success, you’re going to it has a certain time of place. Z are very have to find a job and that’s painful competent musicians, which is hard to for someone who expresses themselves find in most groups. The reservoir of artistically. musical knowledge most groups have SECONDS: What do you listen to? isn’t as deep as Z’s. The real interesting ZAPPA: Howlin’ Wolf. thing to me about Z is that Dweezil has SECONDS: What else do you listen to? managed to create an environment to ZAPPA: I like Z and I listen to Frank’s bring out Ahmet’s talent. I don’t think music. I listen to stuff Diva plays me, I Ahmet realized how talented he is. Now, listen to things the kids bring me and Ahmet has developed his own musical I like to listen to what some of their ideas. They’ll both friends are working on. continue to explore music. SECONDS: What’s your Dweezil is a composer favorite music of Frank’s? interested in film scores. ZAPPA: Things that have Frank wasn’t interested always been favorites in that. are “Sofa” and “Inca SECONDS: But Z is not Roads,” absolutely. Lumpy the next Soundgarden. Gravy was always a ZAPPA: What does that personal favorite from the mean? I don’t think beginning. There’s a lot — anybody should aspire to SECONDS: Anything you be the next Soundgarden. don’t like? SECONDS: I guess ZAPPA: No. what I should ask is, do SECONDS: Were you on they aspire to reach that any of his records? commercial level? ZAPPA: Uh-huh. ZAPPA: It makes it SECONDS: Wanna tell easier. It’s very hard to me where? work as a musician. As Frank always ZAPPA: No. Let them speculate. said, “Being a composer is an unrequired SECONDS: Hmmm — job in America.” If you want to be a in conclusion, what was the funniest musician or composer, there’s nobody thing that ever happened between you actively seeking people who do that. and Frank? You have to stay true and hope you’ll ZAPPA: We got married and managed

577