Wednesday Volume 493 3 June 2009 No. 84

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 3 June 2009

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; Tel: 0044 (0) 208876344; e-mail: [email protected] 257 3 JUNE 2009 258

individuals who invested money in the PMS were investors, House of Commons not savers. She refers to panic withdrawals, but it is also significant to note that no other industrial and provident Wednesday 3 June 2009 society has got into similar difficulties. That will not make life easier for the families involved, but I look forward to seeing the administrator’s interim report. The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Does the Secretary of State not recognise that those who put their money into PRAYERS the Presbyterian Mutual Society did so believing that they were savers, rather than investors? That is how they [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] understood the situation. Youngfamilies and old people with lifetime investments are now caught up in grievance and distress because of a situation that is not of their BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS making. Will the Secretary of State explain why a variant of the model used to relieve the situation of the COMPTROLLER AND AUDITOR GENERAL Dunfermline building society is not being used by the THE VICE-CHAMBERLAIN OF THE HOUSEHOLD reported Treasury in response to the situation of the Presbyterian to the House, That the Address of 20th May, praying Mutual Society? that Her Majesty will appoint Amyas Morse to the Office of Comptroller and Auditor General, was presented Mr. Woodward: Part of the answer to that is that the to Her Majesty, who was graciously pleased to comply PMS is not a building society. Having said that, I with the request. believe that it is significant that when the Financial Services Authority looked into the matter, it noted that the PMS was conducting “regulated activities without the necessary authorisation or Oral Answers to Questions exemption”. The FSA also states that “we remain in touch with the administrator and, if further information comes to light relating to the issues we have investigated, NORTHERN IRELAND we will look into it.” This is an important matter, and I say to the hon. Gentleman that we are keeping a close eye on it. We The Secretary of State was asked— look forward to seeing the report from the FSA and Presbyterian Mutual Society from the administrator as soon as possible. Dr. William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): In October, 1. Ann Winterton (Congleton) (Con): What the Treasury guaranteed that no British customers of assessment he has made of the effect of the collapse of Icesave would lose their savings after that Icelandic the Presbyterian Mutual Society on savers in Northern online bank collapsed. The Prime Minister went on to Ireland. [277583] issue a blanket guarantee that its 300,000 UK customers would get all their money back. Why can he not give the The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Shaun same guarantee to those who have savings with the Woodward): The hon. Lady will know that responsibility Presbyterian Mutual Society? Does the Secretary of for the oversight of the Presbyterian Mutual Society is a State not realise the gravity of the situation for many matter for the devolved Administration, as registration ordinary, decent people in Northern Ireland? is devolved to Northern Ireland. None the less, she might wish to know that my right hon. Friends the Mr. Woodward: We do recognise the gravity of the Prime Minister and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury situation, which is why the Prime Minister, the Chief and I are taking a close interest in the forthcoming Secretary to the Treasury and I are keeping a close eye interim report by the administrator. on it, and why the Prime Minister has been in correspondence and discussion with the First Minister Ann Winterton: Bearing in mind that the Presbyterian and the Deputy First Minister, and looks forward to Mutual Society is in administration mainly because of having further discussions with the First Minister later panic withdrawals following the Chancellor’s guarantee this month. We appreciate the gravity of the situation, to the UK banking sector, will the Secretary of State but we equally have to recognise that, under the law, persuade the Chancellor and the Prime Minister that a those people who put money into the PMS did so not as similar guarantee scheme should be extended to provident savers, but as investors, and that the regulation of this and mutual societies? After all, what is good enough for body in Northern Ireland is the responsibility of devolved the Dunfermline building society is surely good enough government in Northern Ireland, not of Whitehall. for the Presbyterian Mutual Society. Nevertheless, we do not intend to say simply that because the matter is the responsibility of the Department of Mr. Woodward: I absolutely understand the hon. Enterprise, Trade and Investment, we have no interest Lady’s concern for the 9,500 investors of the PMS, but in seeing what we might be able to do to help. That is it is important for her to recognise that there is a why my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister continues significant difference between the status of the PMS to take an active interest in the matter and will engage and that of the Dunfermline building society, which she with the hon. Member for South Antrim (Dr. McCrea) has mentioned. It is critical that she understand that the and his colleagues about it. 259 Oral Answers3 JUNE 2009 Oral Answers 260

John McFall (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op): Minister takes an active interest in the matter; the test is Since the Treasury Committee took evidence in Belfast whether he is going to do anything with some dispatch. a number of months ago on the banking crisis, I have That is what the House wants. It is not a question of continually been in contact with many of the distressed devolved administration; the issue has arisen against savers, as well as with the moderator of the Presbyterian the backdrop of the economic and banking crisis, which Church, Dr. Donald Patton. I have also had meetings is a matter for the First Lord of the Treasury, the Prime with Lord Myners and I have written to the administrator, Minister. This House wants him to proceed as if this Arthur Boyd. There is an issue here about the Financial were happening in Greater London, where 900,000 Services Authority getting in touch. If the Northern investors would be kicking up, and everyone would be Ireland Executive, the Presbyterian Church itself and demanding debates and action this day. Her Majesty’s Treasury got together, I think that we could get a solution. There is a need for added urgency, Mr. Woodward: As always, the Churchillian recognition and I ask the Secretary of State to take that message of my hon. Friend is helpful in allowing me to enjoy this back to ensure that we get justice for many of these a little more; I am tempted to say I am enjoying this, but distressed people. perhaps I should resist that. We have to recognise again that these are not savers; Mr. Woodward: I welcome my right hon. Friend’s they were investors. As such, they made an investment intervention, and it is a mark of his interest in these as risk capital in the form of withdrawable shares and matters that he came and took hearings in Northern loans. There is an issue about whether or not this should Ireland. I know that all hon. Members would want to have been regulated; it was registered; it should have welcome his work and contribution. As I said, the been regulated. There is an issue that I continue to want Prime Minister continues to take an active interest the the FSA to look at, but I am not trying to evade our matter, as does my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary, responsibility. If we can find a way to help these people, and we will continue to follow it up. There are issues we should do so. I am prepared to break the bureaucracy about the regulation of bodies such as the PMS in to do it, if it is at all possible. Northern Ireland and they will need to be addressed. There will be lessons to be learned for the future. For Mr. Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) (Con): It was the 9,500 investors, I appreciate that there are real and the Government’s guarantee to other banks and the pressing questions—particularly for those who invested failure of regulation that brought about the collapse of less than £20,000. We all have a duty to do what we can the Presbyterian Mutual. I met the former moderator to help them—and that also goes for my right hon. and the general secretary on Monday, and I was shocked Friend the Prime Minister. to learn that they had written to the Prime Minister Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire) (Con): Is three times since November, but he had sent only one the Secretary of State aware that the Select Committee holding reply. I was also surprised to find out that the on Northern Ireland Affairs is very grateful to the Secretary of State had not met them. The Prime Minister Treasury Committee for the initiative that it has taken? is the architect of the current financial regulatory system. We would have liked to look into the matter, but as the If his Presbyterian conscience extended to Dunfermline, Secretary of State says, it is devolved. Every member of why will he not apply it to the Presbyterian Mutual? the Committee has received representations that underline the severity of the situation, so will he please take up the Mr. Woodward: First, I want to acknowledge that the suggestion just made by the right hon. Member for hon. Gentleman is the most assiduous visitor to Northern West Dunbartonshire (John McFall), the Chairman of Ireland who has ever held the Opposition spokesman’s the Treasury Committee, and convene a meeting of all job. He cannot help but be there at least half of every the interested parties to try to reach a solution? week, and we should acknowledge that. I just wish that he would sometimes learn a bit more while he was there. Mr. Woodward: As always, I welcome the advice of As I have said to him, the Presbyterian Mutual Society the Chairman of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, is made up not of savers but of investors. The issue is who always has a considered approach to these matters. devolved, and I know he has a problem with that—of I am prepared to work to bring people together. Equally, course, his party has formed an alliance with the Ulster however—I am sure that the hon. Gentleman shares my Unionists in the hope of making some progress view—I am very conscious of the fact that if government nationally—but the fact is that devolution has happened. is devolved, that must be recognised, and we cannot He must respect, rather than undermine, devolution. suddenly be seen to be trying to take control of an issue The Prime Minister has taken an interest in the matter through the back door simply because we are not quite and met the First Minister and Deputy First Minister sure whether it is being handled in the way we might on it. We have held discussions, and further meetings have wanted. This is an issue on which I do not think will take place. But the hon. Gentleman must respect the 9,500 investors will thank Members of this House the fact that devolution does not mean bringing the or of the Assembly for simply saying, “Bureaucracy matter back to Westminster through the back door. means that we cannot help.” I am prepared to break the bureaucracy, and if that is taken in which it is meant, I Mr. Paterson: Contrast that with the clarity of the am prepared to work with the hon. Gentleman and right hon. Gentleman’s successor, my right hon. Friend other colleagues to help those investors. the Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron), who said at a public meeting in Ballymena two weeks ago: Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab): I have listened “I am not here to make spending promises. But what I can tell carefully to what the Minister has said, and he now you is that if I was Prime Minister I would take a very good look seems to be warming up and willing to take this on. It at whether people are being treated fairly. So I think this is a real does not matter how often he says that the Prime case for the Prime Minister to think again”. 261 Oral Answers3 JUNE 2009 Oral Answers 262

So, will the Secretary of State answer directly the question but as I have said, if we can find another route for put by my hon. Friend the Member for South Staffordshire decommissioning, we should take it, which is why we (Sir Patrick Cormack)? Will the right hon. Gentleman have. Such a system is not adopted instead of law and agree to take a delegation representing the Presbyterian order, and it does not allow people to retain their guns Mutual and the savers to see the Prime Minister in the indefinitely, but it might be the only way to get them in. next couple of weeks, to find a solution to protect many The House should be in no doubt: if the IICD tells me innocent people who fear the loss of their life savings? in August that it has not made meaningful progress, I am committed to ending the decommissioning process Mr. Woodward: Once again, we recognise the problem immediately. of the 9,500 savers. The hon. Gentleman refers to the leader of his party, the right hon. Member for Witney Mr. Eddie McGrady (South Down) (SDLP): I wish to (Mr. Cameron)—and I must admit that I know a thing associate myself with the Secretary of State’s remarks or two about Witney. He did travel to Northern Ireland, about the horrendous murder of Kevin McDaid and and he said to people that he was not there to make about Damien Fleming. That really was an horrendous spending promises. As my hon. Friends know, that is setback for our society in Northern Ireland. probably because everywhere he goes he is promising to The Secretary of State informed us in October 2007 make 10 per cent. cuts, should we ever see him in that meaningful engagement and negotiation had already government. The people of Northern Ireland should taken place with the independent decommissioning body. pay careful attention to the words of the hon. Gentleman’s On 1 April this year, he said that if leader, because he would be very bad news for them. He “there has been no meaningful progress” does not understand the problems of Northern Ireland or of the Presbyterian Mutual, or that the Presbyterian in negotiation by the middle of August, he would Mutual is made up of investors not savers. As I have terminate the decommissioning legislation. Can he tell said, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister will meet us what he means by “meaningful progress”? Is it to be the First Minister and Deputy First Minister again to interpreted as the handing in of all weaponry by the see what can be done to help such people, not with UDA and associated loyalists by mid-August, and does empty slogans and hollow promises but with real action— it mean that there will be no more provocation in regard and not by doing nothing. to the abandonment of the decommissioning legislation? Mr. Woodward: I thank the hon. Gentleman for the Decommissioning role that he continues to play in helping to deal with the legacy of the past in relation to sectarianism. I acknowledge 2. Angela Watkinson (Upminster) (Con): What that in his opening remarks. assessment he has made of progress in decommissioning I do not think it is helpful for me to give the House a of arms by loyalist paramilitary organisations; and if he running commentary on how the IICD is progressing. will make a statement. [277584] It has an outstanding track record in achieving decommissioning on the part of paramilitary organisations The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Shaun since its establishment. If the IICD tells me, as Secretary Woodward): I would like to take this opportunity to of State, that it is making meaningful progress in dialogue express the condolences of the whole House to the with those organisations, I think that we have a duty for family of Kevin McDaid, who was murdered last Sunday the next 12 weeks to stick with it in good faith. week, and also to Damian Fleming, who was badly attacked and suffered serious injuries. The Government Mr. Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP): I totally condemn those responsible for those serious am sure the Secretary of State agrees that while crimes. The Independent International Commission on decommissioning by loyalist paramilitaries is important, Decommissioning continues to make progress with those it is equally important for the weapons used last night in paramilitary organisations that have engaged with the west Belfast to shoot a young man to be decommissioned, decommissioning process. and for organisations such as the Irish National Liberation Army and other republican splinter groups to be brought Angela Watkinson: I thank the Minister for his response, into the decommissioning loop. It is important for their but the Independent Monitoring Commission’s assessment weapons to be taken out of society as well. of the likelihood of decommissioning by the Ulster Defence Association is that it is difficult to judge what Mr. Woodward: It is important for all weapons to be turn events might take and when. Given the qualified taken out of society. It is my view that none of these position of the Independent Monitoring Commission instruments, whether they be guns or whether they be on judging such matters, what makes the Secretary of knives, has any place in a normal, decent, civilised State think that any progress will be made within the society. We have a duty in the House to ensure that we next 12 weeks? do everything we can to find every means possible to remove these weapons from the streets and from people’s homes. There is no doubt that they contribute to sectarian Mr. Woodward: I am grateful for the interest that the violence. hon. Lady and her hon. Friends take in this matter. We have to rely on the IICD for advice on such matters. Its I thank the right hon. Gentleman for what he has independence means that we do not know what it is done in this regard. As Father Keaney, the priest who doing and where. I have meetings with it, and it has presided over the funeral of Kevin McDaid, said earlier informed me that it continues to make meaningful this week, we must all see what we can do to remove progress in dialogue with the organisations concerned, “the prejudices of the past”. 263 Oral Answers3 JUNE 2009 Oral Answers 264

That is the action that we must take together, and I have and Damian Fleming recently. We hear what the Secretary no doubt that if we take it and maintain the political of State has said about the decommissioning of the momentum in Northern Ireland, right will win and evil arms held by the so-called loyalist groups, but I remind will lose. him that, on Thursday 5 February, on behalf of Her Majesty’s official Opposition, I reluctantly agreed to Mr. Jim Devine (Livingston) (Lab): I am sure that I support the Government in extending the arms speak for the whole House when I associate myself with decommissioning amnesty for the 12th year on the what my right hon. Friend said about the death of specific promise that there were moves to start Kevin McDaid, but is my right hon. Friend aware that decommissioning within weeks. That has not happened. press reports are suggesting that members of the police Can the Secretary of State assure the House that if force texted loyalist groups to tell them that tricolours arms decommissioning has not taken place by the August were being raised in the community, and is the matter deadline, he will make a statement in the House being investigated? immediately?

Mr. Woodward: I am aware of those press reports. Mr. Woodward: I again say to the hon. Gentleman Indeed, on Saturday evening this week I spoke to the that we should remember that the work of the IICD has Chief Constable, who had been made aware of the achieved a transformation of weapons held by paramilitary stories. He has investigated the matter, and I am glad to groups in Northern Ireland, not least those weapons tell my hon. Friend that the Chief Constable can find held by PIRA. In a succession of instances with regard no evidence whatsoever to support the allegations that to decommissioning, that has led to the current state of were made in the newspaper. play. I am grateful for his support this year on that Let me say again that the best way in which we can matter, but it will not help the work of the IICD if I deal with sectarian violence is by confronting these make a running commentary on information, including issues, which are the legacy of the past. We must uphold Security Service information. I simply say to him that I law and order, we must be firm in our justice, and we believe that it was the right thing to do and I believe that must ensure that we do everything we can to send a in August he will see the fruits of that labour. clear signal to young and old people that guns have no place in Northern Ireland today. Community Projects (Funding)

Mr. Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): 3. Dr. Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast, South) (SDLP): Let me associate myself and my party with the Secretary What recent discussions he has had with representatives of State’s comments about the murder of Kevin McDaid. of churches and other faith-based organisations which It was a truly brutal and, indeed, evil act. Does the do not apply for funding from the national lottery for Secretary of State not accept, however, that its true religious reasons on alternative sources of funding for significance lies in its demonstration that in the minds their community projects. [277585] of those would style themselves loyalist paramilitaries, there has been no movement away from—[Interruption.] The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Paul Goggins): I have had no such discussions as national Mr. Speaker: Order. It is unfair. Hon. Members are lottery matters and the listed places of worship scheme speaking about Northern Ireland, which is a very serious are the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Secretary matter, and there is a great noise of conversation in the of State for Culture, Media and Sport. I understand Chamber. that, in addition, the Northern Ireland Departments operate several funding programmes which are open to Mr. Carmichael: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Northern Ireland churches and other faith-based organisations. Does the Secretary of State agree that when de Chastelain reports in August, we do not want to hear about talks Dr. McDonnell: Is the Minister aware that churches and progress? What we want is confirmation that the and faith-based groups have made a valuable contribution weapons have been decommissioned and that there will to local communities and to wider society in Northern be no more chances after August. Ireland—a cost-effective contribution, mostly volunteer led? A recent study has shown that 70 or 75 per cent. of Mr. Woodward: I have made it very clear to the House volunteer activity around youth groups is led by faith-based that there will be no chances after August unless we are groups. Many of those groups have ethical difficulties told by the IICD that there has been meaningful progress, availing themselves of lottery money. Has he done so there is no question of the period being extended in anything, or can he offer any suggestions? Will he meet the absence of that progress, but again I say that those people in an effort to find alternative sources of decommissioning in relation to sectarianism in Northern funding? Ireland is only a part of the issue. In the words of the chief executive of the Community Relations Council, Paul Goggins: I am happy to join my hon. Friend in we must all talk now about the need for a shared, united paying tribute to the churches in Northern Ireland and society, stop the talk of us and them and unite to turn faith-based organisations that provide so much by way the hatred of the past into a society of cohesion and of community activity, particularly aimed at young normality with no guns at all. people and excluded people. There is a range of funding opportunities for church groups that have a problem Mr. Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): I entirely with the national lottery. They can apply to different endorse what the Secretary of State said and condemn Departments in Northern Ireland. I hope that, with the the cowardly and murderous attacks on Kevin McDaid transfer of money from dormant bank and building 265 Oral Answers3 JUNE 2009 Oral Answers 266 society accounts, there will be future opportunities and against this country and against British citizens to that faith-based groups will have less of a problem in know beyond doubt that they will be hunted down and applying under those schemes. brought to justice. There will be no hiding place for them, and there will be no safe haven for terrorists who Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): I knew this attack our country. question was important, but I did not know that it This morning, I had ministerial meetings with colleagues, deserved the acclaim it got from the House earlier. and in addition to my duties in the House I shall have Does the Minister recognise that in many communities further such meetings later today. churches provide the main source of community activity for the elderly, the young and others, and that because Mr. Weir: I represent 45 Commando, which has of some deeply held beliefs the infrastructure that would recently returned from a deployment in Afghanistan normally be funded through the lottery fund cannot be where, unfortunately, it lost nine men. My colleagues funded? Will he look at ways of ensuring that those and I would like to associate ourselves with the condolences areas that require and rely on church facilities are not expressed by the Prime Minister for these brave men disadvantaged? who lost their lives in Afghanistan recently, and also for the family of Mr. Dyer. Paul Goggins: I agree wholeheartedly with the hon. Gentleman. It is true not only in Northern Ireland, but Just now, we are seeing the pathetic sight of the in all our constituencies, that churches and faith-based Cabinet attempting to reshuffle itself. When will the organisations make a real difference. I acknowledge the Prime Minister accept that he has lost all authority and problems some churches have in making applications to call an election? the national lottery. I say again that the new dormant bank and building society accounts proposal might be a The Prime Minister: There is work to be done every way of getting money to those organisations. They play day to deal with the recession. If we had taken the an important part, but I am sure, too, that the hon. advice of the other parties, we would not have taken Gentleman will recognise that the £773 million invested action to nationalise the banks, and we would not have in communities in Northern Ireland through the national taken action to deal with the problems that small businesses lottery has also made a huge difference to local communities. face and that people face with unemployment. These are the actions that are needed, and this Government are taking such action every day. PRIME MINISTER Q2. [277569] Dr. Howard Stoate (Dartford) (Lab): At last year’s Union for the Mediterranean summit, my The Prime Minister was asked— right hon. Friend gave his backing to concentrated Engagements solar power as a means of providing almost limitless clean energy for Europe. Given that more than 170 Members of this House have signed an early-day motion Q1. [277568] Mr. Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): If he will supporting concentrated solar power and the development list his official engagements for Wednesday 3 June. of a high-voltage, direct-current supergrid, what active steps is my right hon. Friend taking to work with our The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): Before listing international partners to make this a reality? my engagements, I know that the whole House will join me in expressing our condolences to the families and friends of the seven servicemen who have lost their lives The Prime Minister: This is a serious issue that needs since we last met: Corporal Stephen Bolger of 1st Battalion, European co-operation for it to happen. Our target is the Parachute Regiment; Lance Corporal Robert Richards for 15 per cent. of energy consumption to come from of the Armoured Support Group, the Royal Marines; renewable sources. We have spent more than £11 million Lance Corporal Kieron Hill of 2nd Battalion, the Mercian over the last few years to support solar installations, Regiment; Lance Corporal Nigel Moffett of the Light and we will publish the renewable energy strategy, setting Dragoons; Fusilier Petero Suesue of 2nd Battalion, the out our strategy to meet these renewable targets. We will Royal Regiment of Fusiliers; Sapper Jordan Rossi of work with all countries in Europe to develop a renewables 38 Engineer Regiment, the Royal Engineers; and the strategy. soldier from the 2nd Battalion, the Rifles, who was killed yesterday. These are exceptionally brave men, Mr. David Cameron (Witney) (Con): I join the Prime whose service should not, and will not, ever be forgotten. Minister in paying tribute to the soldier from 2nd Recent operations have shown that we will not allow the Battalion The Rifles who was killed in Helmand province Taliban to jeopardise the future of a free and democratic yesterday. We will also remember Lance Corporal Nigel Afghanistan, and the whole country should be rightly Moffett, Corporal Stephen Bolger, Lance Corporal Kieron proud of the sacrifice these men have made. Hill, Lance Corporal Robert Richards, Sapper Jordan I have also to report that we have strong reason to Rossi and Fusilier Suesue. All of them have been killed believe that a British citizen, Edwin Dyer, has been in the past fortnight serving their country—we will not murdered by an al-Qaeda cell in Mali. I, as will the forget their sacrifice and we must care for their families. whole House, utterly condemn this appalling and barbaric I also join the Prime Minister in sending condolences act of terrorism. Our thoughts and condolences are to the family and friends of Edwin Dyer, who, it is with the family. I have talked to the President of Mali. believed, has been brutally murdered by terrorists in He knows he will have every support in rooting out Mali. This must be a simply horrific time for his family, al-Qaeda from his country. I want those who use terror and I am sure that everyone in the country is thinking 267 Oral Answers3 JUNE 2009 Oral Answers 268 about them. In spite of all the difficulties though, the Mr. Cameron: The Prime Minister talks about pressures. Prime Minister is right to say that we must never give in I have to say that those pressures on the Communities to terrorists. Secretary and on others in his Cabinet include No. 10 This morning, the Communities Secretary resigned directly briefing against them. The fact is that what we from the Cabinet. That follows yesterday’s announcement see is a dysfunctional Cabinet and a dysfunctional that the Children’s Minister is standing down, the Minister Government led by a Prime Minister who cannot give a from the Cabinet Office is leaving and the Home Secretary lead. Can he perhaps at least guarantee that there will is resigning. Why does not the Prime Minister accept be no further resignations ahead of his reshuffle? that his ability to command his Cabinet has simply The Prime Minister: I hope that the right hon. Gentleman disappeared? will acknowledge that for those on both sides of the House the events of the past few weeks have been The Prime Minister: I think the first thing that the difficult. It would be unfair for us to pass this Question whole House would want to do is acknowledge the Time without acknowledging that in each part of the great work that has been done by both the Home House people have found it difficult with the pressures Secretary and the Communities Secretary in the Cabinet. upon them. I want also to pay tribute to the Communities At a time like this, the House should come together to Secretary for the work that she has done, because she acknowledge contributions that have been made in the has brought new relationships between local government public interest. May I also say that under the Home and central Government with the local government Secretary what we have seen is crime come down, concordat, she has sponsored urban regeneration in neighbourhood policing introduced, the fight on terrorism shopping centres in our country and she has been active stepped up and better relationships between the police in building better relationships with the Muslim and the community? I have to remind the Conservative communities. At a time like this, it is the duty of all of party that crime doubled under a Conservative Government us, in all parts of the House, to recognise the contributions and policing numbers were cut. that people have made. As for what he says about the Government, we have Mr. Cameron: The Prime Minister is in denial. If two jobs of work to do. One is to clean up the expenses these people have done such good work, why are they system. I think that everybody else in the House except walking away from their jobs? The Communities Secretary’s him agrees that we have to take action now to clean up statement does not pay tribute to him or a single one of that system. The second thing is that we have got to take his policies. Let us be clear about what is happening: the this country through the recession. The remarkable Minister in charge of local government is resigning the thing about the Leader of the Opposition is that this is day before the local elections. Is not the fact that she has yet another week when there has been not one question chosen today of all days to go a direct challenge to his on policy. authority? Mr. Cameron: The Prime Minister must understand The Prime Minister: I think some people should take that the issue here is his leadership. The failure of the a step back and understand what has been happening. Government on appearance is not as bad as their failure The past few weeks have been difficult for every Member on substance. Let me turn to the issue of the economy in every part of this House. People have to recognise, in and let us take just one key individual, the person the politicking that goes on, that there have been enormous responsible for steering us through this recession: the pressures on people and that while the public are angry, Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Prime Minister refuses there have also been family pressures on Members of to talk about him in anything other than the past tense. this House. That is true of those in all parts of the We know that the Home Secretary is going, we know House, and I think that we have a responsibility to all that the Communities Secretary is going, so can the Members of the House in this. Yes, there are elements Prime Minister tell us whether the Chancellor, sitting of party politics that the right hon. Gentleman would there in front of us, will still be in his post in a week’s want to raise, but he has to acknowledge that in all parts time? of the House there are issues that people want to sort The Prime Minister: Once again, that is nothing to do out. with policy. The right hon. Gentleman is incapable of dealing with the big issues that face this country. Let me Mr. Cameron: I have to say to the Prime Minister that say what this Chancellor is achieving. This Chancellor if this was about expenses, the Communities Secretary is leading the rest of the world in taking us out of would have resigned weeks ago. The fact is that she has recession. This Chancellor has taken action that the chosen to resign today. [Interruption.] Conservative party has refused to support. What happened when we had to deal with the banks? What would the Mr. Speaker: Order. Do not shout down the Leader Conservatives have done? Nothing. What would they of the Opposition. have done when we were helping mortgage holders? [HON.MEMBERS: “Nothing.”] Nothing. What would Mr. Cameron: Yes—[Interruption.] they have done when we were helping the unemployed? [HON.MEMBERS: “Nothing.”] Nothing. What is their policy? To do nothing. That is not the basis on which to Mr. Speaker: Order. Remember that there is a danger ask for an election. of the House being suspended if people continue to shout. That is the danger, and there will be no Prime Mr. Cameron: If the Chancellor is doing such a good Minister’s Question Time. [Interruption.] That goes for job, will the Prime Minister tell us whether he will be both sides of the House. there in a week’s time? 269 Oral Answers3 JUNE 2009 Oral Answers 270

The Prime Minister: I have said that the Chancellor is Mr. Nick Clegg (Sheffield, Hallam) (LD): I would doing a very good job, and I hope that the right hon. like to add my own expressions of sympathy and condolence Gentleman would agree with me. The Conservatives are to the families of Fusilier Petero Suesue, Sapper Jordan the only party to want an election when they have no Rossi, Lance Corporal Robert Richards, Lance Corporal policy to deal with the recession. They want an election, Kieron Hill, Lance Corporal Nigel Moffett, Corporal but they have no policy to help home owners. They Stephen Bolger, and the soldier from 2nd Battalion the want an election, but they have no policy to help the Rifles who died yesterday. As has been said, they all unemployed. That is a party that talks, talks and talks served with great distinction and courage in Afghanistan. but has nothing to do with action. Of course, I would like to support the Prime Minister in his expressions of sympathy and condolence extended to the family and friends of Edwin Dyer. Mr. Cameron: If the Prime Minister is not happy with our policies, why does he not call an election and We can now see that the Government are in total test them out? The Prime Minister needs to realise how meltdown. The Prime Minister is thrashing around, important this is. Why should the British public believe fighting for his own political survival, but does he not the Chancellor if the Prime Minister does not have understand the extreme danger to our democracy when confidence in him? Why should international markets people start feeling that there is simply no one in have confidence in the Chancellor if the Prime Minister charge? does not have confidence in him? That is why this is so serious. The Prime Minister told us that he had the right The Prime Minister: The dangers are when one does team to take the country forward. That team is now not deal with the problems that are before us. One of deserting him. The Government are collapsing before the problems is to deal with the expenses system in the our eyes. Why does he not take the one act of authority House of Commons, and the second is to deal with the left to him—get down to the palace, ask for a dissolution problems and challenges of the economy. I thought that and call that election? the Liberal party would support us in the action that we are taking to help the unemployed, to help home owners, and to help small businesses, and I hope that the right The Prime Minister: Once again, he proves to the hon. Gentleman will not join the other party in talking whole country that there is absolutely no substance in only about things other than policy. The country wants anything that he says. We have to clean up the electoral us to talk about what we are doing to help it. system, and we are doing that. We are cleaning up the expenses system. The second thing that we are doing is Mr. Clegg: The Prime Minister just does not get it. cleaning up the economy and ensuring that it comes out His Government are paralysed by indecision, crippled of recession. The party opposite has no policies to deal by in-fighting, and exhausted after 12 long years. It is a with that. It is words, words and words. We will get on tragedy that exactly at a time when people need help with the action. and action, the country does not have a Government; it has a void. Labour is finished. Is it not obvious that the only choice now is between the Conservatives and the Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): Liberal Democrats? My right hon. Friend has worked hard, along with the Business Secretary, to bring about a positive solution to The Prime Minister: I seem to remember the Liberals the future of Vauxhall. Many of my constituents, of saying that at every election that I have ever fought. The course, are not aware of what has happened behind the right hon. Gentleman is right to say that the country scenes. Will my right hon. Friend give them the assurance needs action, and the action is coming from this that the Government will continue with the high level of Government. If he will listen to what we are doing, I support that is being offered and will the Government think that he will find it very difficult to oppose the distance themselves from the statements that it is not measures that we are taking to help the car industry, to desirable to rescue the motor industry that have been help the banks, to help the unemployed, and to help made by the Liberal Democrats? those people who are home owners. We are the party with the ideas about how to take this country out of The Prime Minister: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, recession; neither of the main Opposition parties has who has been a great supporter of Ellesmere Port and anything to offer us. the car industry there. This is what people in the country are concerned about: the jobs of workers in car factories Q3. [277570] Mr. Andy Slaughter (Ealing, Acton and and in the car supply industry. That is why we have been Shepherd’s Bush) (Lab): Will my right hon. Friend working with General Motors and the two potential reaffirm the Government’s commitment to decent, buyers. We are now working with the preferred buyer affordable homes for all? In the past month in west for General Motors and our determination is to save London, the decent homes programme has been Vauxhall jobs in this country and to make sure that described as upgrading the deckchairs on the Titanic, people have a secure future. We have also, as hon. and social housing as an incentive not to improve one’s Members know, introduced a scheme that allows people lot through one’s own efforts. Will he condemn the to sell cars that are more than 10 years old, and now Tory politicians who made those comments? 35,000 people have bought cars as a result of that, so we are doing whatever we can to move the car industry The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is absolutely forward. I just have to say to this House that that would right. When a Conservative council has cut the decent not be possible unless we were prepared to put public homes programme, and cut back on the investment in funds into making that happen; I am afraid that that is it, one does not need to look into a crystal ball to see rejected by the Opposition. what the Conservatives will do; one can see it in the 271 Oral Answers3 JUNE 2009 Oral Answers 272 action that they are taking to cut decent homes in a The Prime Minister: That is not correct. Thousands constituency. I support my hon. Friend in taking up the of people are being helped with the various schemes. case of the many people in his constituency who are The first is the mortgage income support scheme for looking for decent homes, and who look to their council people who are unemployed, which is now available for to provide them. those with houses worth under £200,000, and large numbers of people are claiming that. The second is the moratorium that is available on people’s building society Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): May and bank payments, which we negotiated with building I put it to the Prime Minister that the problem of societies. The third is the shared equity scheme, where Members’ allowances falls within the remit of Sir we are prepared to buy a share of the house to help Christopher Kelly’s committee, and should be left there people move forward. Discussions on that are moving until it reports? The right hon. Gentleman has hinted forward for large numbers of people. The fourth is the that he wishes to gain a reputation as a constitutionalist measures that we are taking to deal with the way in over the issue, so may I suggest to him that as he is which the banks approach mortgages in the first place. almost uniquely unsuited to play the role of a latter-day Thomas Jefferson, he should in fact look to the existing The recent report of the Council of Mortgage Lenders constitution and do as almost everyone in the country said that they expected repossessions to be far less than would ask him to do—use that traditional constitution they had predicted, as a result of the action that we are to ask Her Majesty to dissolve this Parliament, so that taking. Any repossession is to be regretted. There are the country can elect a new one? many circumstances in which repossessions happen—for example, if there is a family break-up which is nothing to do with the financial situation of an employee—but The Prime Minister: I am grateful for the hon. there are other situations where repossessions are caused Gentleman’s 300-year perspective on these issues. It is by the lack of money. We are trying to help those people right that Sir Christopher Kelly’s committee report. It is to maintain their mortgages and renegotiate them. I also right that we take further action to end the system think the hon. Gentleman will find that no Government of self-regulation in the House. It is not right that there have done more to help mortgage payers to prevent emerges a conflict of interest between the public interest repossessions. That is what a Labour Government are and MPs’ interest. That is in none of our interests. about. We will not walk by on the other side. Everybody wants it to stop. That is why an external regulator is of greater benefit to us, as well as being supported, I believe, in the whole country. Q6. [277573] Mrs. Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): Can the Prime Minister say when a decision will be taken about granting a pardon to Q4. [277571] Joan Ryan (Enfield, North) (Lab): My Michael Shields, following the High Court’s decision right hon. Friend will be aware of the valiant campaign last December? Michael has now been in prison for led by the Royal British Legion to have council tax four years, following what I firmly believe to be a gross benefit rebranded as a rebate, which would increase miscarriage of justice. take-up and lift thousands of pensioners out of poverty, including up to 20,000 veterans. This Saturday marks the 65th anniversary of D-day. Does my right The Prime Minister: Mr. Shields, as everybody knows, hon. Friend agree that this would be an appropriate has applied for a free pardon within the terms of the time to announce such a change so that all pensioners, High Court judgment that was handed down on especially our veterans, who have served our country 17 December. I understand the Shields family’s concerns with courage and dignity, can live in dignity? about delay. They have waited a long time. He has a large number of supporters. The Justice Secretary is determined to make the best and fairest decision he can, The Prime Minister: The whole House will want to but he can do so only after, in the public interest, honour today the sacrifice and service of all those assessing all the material that is available. He expects to people who were involved in the D-day landings, and all write to Mr. Shields’ lawyers later this month. those who were involved in the sacrifice and service that made possible victory in the second world war and the peace that we now enjoy as a result. I want to pay Q7. [277574] John Mason (Glasgow, East) (SNP): Is tribute to the individual veterans who are still part of the Prime Minister embarrassed that Britain is now a the Royal British Legion. I talked to the treasurer of my more unequal country than at any time since the 1960s, branch of the Royal British Legion only a few days ago. and specifically that the poorest 20 per cent. in society We have a delegation of the Royal British Legion coming have lost real income since 2005, and the richest 20 per in to see the Pensions Minister this afternoon. She is cent. have gained? proposing that pension credit could be put in a new form, where it could be seen as a rebate. That will be The Prime Minister: We have taken millions of people discussed this afternoon. We want it to be as automatic out of poverty. We have taken children out of poverty as possible for pensioners to get their right, so we are and we have taken pensioners out of poverty, and we prepared to discuss how we can move matters forward. have set new targets for child poverty and for pensioner I hope all sides of the House will support such a move. poverty. As a result of this Labour Government, child benefit has been raised, working families tax credit has Q5. [277572] Paul Rowen (Rochdale) (LD): With up to been introduced, and child tax credit has also been 50,000 home owners facing repossession this year, if introduced, taking 1.5 million people out of poverty in the Government are doing so much to help them, why itself. If we had followed the policies of the Scottish is it that only two people have been helped so far? National party, we would be in a far worse position. 273 Oral Answers3 JUNE 2009 Oral Answers 274

Q8. [277575] Dr. Nick Palmer (Broxtowe) (Lab): I we hope other countries will be prepared to support, welcome the Prime Minister’s attack on the abuse of but I must repeat today—I think it is relevant, because expenses that has so revolted members of the public, tomorrow people are voting on issues of Europe—that but will he also take action to curb the dependence of that cannot happen without co-operation across the many Members on second incomes? I have calculated European Union. Those parties that want to break that the Conservative Front-Bench team alone has 57 from the European Union will have neither an economic other sources of income up to £250,000. Would it not policy that works for Britain nor an environmental be better if, instead of an alternative Government with policy. That is what we need, and we are going to push 57 varieties of special interest, we all concentrated on forward. the job that we were elected to do? Q12. [277579] Sandra Gidley (Romsey) (LD): Does the The Prime Minister: All Members want to show that Prime Minister agree that it is wrong to build on grade they are undertaking public service, and that they are in 2 agricultural land? If so, will he change planning it not for what they can get but for what they can give. policy to prevent the waste of that precious resource But one of the issues that repeatedly comes up is and prevent also Conservative-controlled Test Valley Members’ second jobs, and it is right that Sir Christopher borough council’s disgraceful plan to build on fertile Kelly looks at the matter. [Interruption.] I hear some green fields? murmuring on the Opposition Benches. Methinks that they protest too much. The Prime Minister: The hon. Lady will have to write me about the individual instance of that council, but Q9. [277576] Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk) this Government’s record is that we wish to build on (Con): Will the Prime Minister find time today to meet brownfield not greenfield land. the Pensions Action Group, which is outside lobbying Parliament on occupational pensions? Is he aware that Q13. [277580] Dr. Stephen Ladyman (South Thanet) although many of my constituents were offered 90 per (Lab): Did my right hon. Friend note the International cent., the reality is that they will probably get less than Monetary Fund report, suggesting that when we 70 per cent? Why is that? Does he feel in any way guilty entered the global slowdown, public debt in this that the changes that he made when he was Chancellor country was lower than in all our competitor countries, have destroyed what was once the best private pensions that it is lower now as we leave the recession and that it sector in the world? will be lower in this country over each of the next five years? Is it not the case that the actions of this The Prime Minister: We have already had a long Government prepared us to deal with the economic debate in the House, some time ago, when I showed that slowdown in a way that the Opposition’s policies never the funds of pension funds doubled in the 10-year would have? period that I was Chancellor. Despite what the hon. Gentleman says, all our changes made it possible for the pension funds to have large sums of money. The issue, The Prime Minister: Once again, my hon. Friend is however, as he knows perfectly well, is that pension proving that the problem that we have to deal with is a funds’ income depends on what happens on the stock global financial recession. Britain is coming through exchange as much as on anything else, and he must that by taking the right policies. The Opposition party know that that is what has affected most pension funds is the first party to go into an election tomorrow with recently. no policy to deal with the economy.

Q10. [277577] Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh, North Q14. [277581] Mr. Michael Jack (Fylde) (Con): Is the and Leith) (Lab/Co-op): I am sure that my right hon. Prime Minister aware that his departing Home Friend will have seen the latest scientific report showing Secretary leaves a legacy of 342,000 cases of domestic that by the end of the century, global warming will be violence in this country every year? May I ask him to even more severe than previously thought. We have ensure that he re-examines the effectiveness of policies gone beyond the stage at which we can stop irreversible in that area, because of the cost in human misery on damage to our planet, and now the question is whether the victims and the cost to our caring services? we can stop environmental catastrophe. What will my right hon. Friend do to ensure that the G8 summit, The Prime Minister: I hope that the right hon. Gentleman which is coming up shortly, recognises that point, so will be fair and acknowledge that the Home Secretary that we have the chance in Copenhagen to get the type has also led the way on tougher sentences on domestic of agreement that the planet so desperately needs? violence, including in domestic violence courts. This Government, led by the Leader of the House as well as The Prime Minister: We will lead the way at the G8 the Home Secretary, have a record in taking on domestic summit in proposing how we can solve the two problems violence by also funding centres for women throughout that prevent a Copenhagen agreement. First, we need the rest of the country. That is vital public expenditure, agreement on intermediate targets for carbon emissions and we believe that it is important for the health of this reduction, and that requires us to persuade China and country. We will continue to support that measure to India, as well as America and Japan, to join the group help women in our country. of people who are prepared to commit to those targets. Secondly, finance must be provided to enable developing The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Stuart countries and emerging markets to make the investments Bell): The Prime Minister talked about policies as we go that are necessary to reduce carbon emissions in those into the European elections tomorrow. Can he confirm areas. We will come up with financing proposals, which that, under the Labour Government, 700,000 companies 275 Oral Answers3 JUNE 2009 Oral Answers 276 work with the European Union, that 3 million jobs When the Conservative leader cannot talk to the German relate to the European Union and that 60 per cent. of Chancellor, the French President or people in Spain our trade is with the European Union? Which party and Portugal—[Interruption.] The German Chancellor goes into the elections tomorrow with the better record? said that she would not offer the hand of friendship to those who opposed the Lisbon treaty. When the right hon. Gentleman can talk politics about his European The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend will also know group only with a Czech forum, which also supports the that EEF, the manufacturers’ organisation, has said Lisbon treaty, he is in real trouble. that the Conservative European policy Mr. Speaker: Order. Will hon. Members leave the “is bound to reduce our influence in Europe”. Chamber quietly? 277 Oral Answers 3 JUNE 2009 278

BILL PRESENTED Maximum Wage Motion for leave to introduce a Bill (Standing Order SUSTAINABLE COMMUNITIES ACT 2007 (AMENDMENT) No. 23) BILL Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) 12.33 pm Mr. David Drew, supported by Julia Goldsworthy and Mr. Nick Hurd, presented a Bill to amend the Paddy Tipping (Sherwood) (Lab): I beg to move, Sustainable Communities Act 2007 to make further That leave be given to bring in a Bill to prescribe the maximum provision regarding the consideration of proposals and wage that can be paid; and for connected purposes. the representation of parish councils; and for connected In effect, the Bill puts a cap on the maximum wage purposes. that can be paid to any person in any one year. Mr. Speaker, Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on you will remember that it is 10 years since the minimum Friday 16 October, and to be printed (Bill 104). wage was introduced. In April 1999, 2 million people benefited from a minimum wage of £3.60 per hour. Since then, the minimum wage has been increased by 60 per cent. to £5.80 this October. Millions more hard-working families have benefited from that landmark legislation, of which the Labour Government should be really proud. There was opposition, of course. You will remember, Mr. Speaker, that the CBI and others argued that there would be job losses. That has not been the case. There are still pockets of resistance to the minimum wage, however; I note that the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope), supported by some of his colleagues, intends to bring forward the Employment Opportunities Bill on 12 June. Let us be in no doubt that that would axe the minimum wage. Instead of going backwards, we now need to go forwards. We need to complete the policy circle and seriously consider the introduction of a maximum wage. In an unprecedented time of economic difficulty, hard-working families and pensioners are facing real problems. There are genuine concerns about executive pay packages. It simply cannot be right that some chief executives are receiving more than £6 million a year. It cannot be right that Terry Leahy, the chief executive of Tesco, has a salary package of £4.3 million, which is equivalent to the average earnings of 335 of his employees working in Tesco. It is completely wrong that there are directors at Tesco, BP and Vodafone who are each individually receiving a salary of more than £1 million a year, and it cannot be right that some of these people are being paid bonuses for performance targets that they cannot meet. Bonuses should be for success, not for failure. People abhor the golden pension package. What really disturbed people was the £730,000 payment to Sir Fred Goodwin, who should have been sacked rather than rewarded. Against that background, people want change. When they are asked about wage policy, they say that the gap between the highest paid and the lowest paid is too high. Eighty per cent. of people think that those who are paid the lowest should get more and that those who are paid the highest should get less. They want change; they want to see the introduction of a maximum wage. Outside the Westminster village, away from the political classes, there is a growing demand for openness, fairness and justice, and we should listen and respond to it. There has been a lot of academic work on the maximum wage, but not much of a political policy focus. However, things are changing. It is significant that in February this year President Obama talked about a maximum wage of $500,000 for executives of companies that have received a state bail-out. It is interesting that UEFA and football clubs across Europe are now talking about maximum wages and transfer fees capped at 51 per cent. 279 Maximum Wage3 JUNE 2009 Maximum Wage 280

[Paddy Tipping] popular that we should move to a fairer society. If events over the past month have taught us anything, it is of a club’s income for their players. Maybe in the that we need to be clear that voters abhor greed and not-too-distant future the telephone number figures injustice. There is a crisis in the economic system, and a that professional footballers have been receiving will matching crisis in our political system, and reform is disappear. necessary and urgent. We need to set out a clear agenda So how would we set a maximum wage? There is a and, what is more, an agenda for action. I am confident simple solution. We could say to everybody that no one that the Bill that I wish to introduce provides a vehicle should receive more than the Prime Minister—£194,000 not just for debate and discussion but for progressive a year. That is not far-fetched. Just look at what is policy, change, justice and fairness. happening in, dare I say, Kazakhstan, where its Prime Minister, Karim Massimov, made such a proclamation 12.41 pm earlier this year. The New Economics Foundation, in its Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con): I shall certainly paper, “The Alternative Mansion House Speech”, advocated not call a vote, but this has to be one of the daftest ideas a minimum wage capped at £1 million. that I have heard in this House, and we specialise in However, there are fairer and better ways to do it. If them on occasion. we are sensible, we need to link the minimum wage to We are an island, but we are not isolated. We are the maximum wage. For example, there is a strong case competing in an international field, and many of the for arguing that the maximum wage should be 10 times people who would be severely damaged by such a the minimum wage. Based on £5.60 an hour, that would Stalinist Government restriction would leave this country, give a maximum wage of £120,000. A rule of 100 would and particularly the City of London and many of its provide a maximum of £1.2 million. Another approach businesses. The damage that that would do to this would be to link the maximum wage to the average country would be immeasurable. Going back to a weekly wage, which was £479 last year. Some, such as communist-type restriction whereby the Government my right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham decide wages and jobs is unthinkable. It would be (Mr. MacShane), have argued that the multiple on the uncompetitive, and it would destroy us. average wage should be 20 times, which would produce Question put (Standing Order No. 23) and agreed to. a maximum wage of £115,000 per year. It is clear that one of the consequences of a maximum wage policy Ordered, would be that if the top bosses and chief executives That Paddy Tipping, Mr. David Drew, Kelvin Hopkins, wanted to increase their pay, they would have to increase Judy Mallaber, Mr. Denis MacShane, Albert Owen, the pay of everyone who worked in the company. That Mr. Ken Purchase, John Robertson and David Taylor really is progressive politics. present the Bill. At the end of the day, it does not matter what process Paddy Tipping accordingly presented the Bill. is used to calculate the maximum wage. The issue is not Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on one of practice but one of principle. It is right and Friday 16 October and to be printed (Bill 103). 281 3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 282

Stroke Services Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): Does my hon. Friend accept that, as well as early intervention, those who suffer aphasia—an extreme form of stroke—need 12.43 pm a lot of help over much time? There is always a problem about when that help is cut away. Does she agree that we The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health must be sympathetic and ensure that it is done at the (Ann Keen): I beg to move, last possible moment, and not too early? That this House has considered the matter of stroke services. When the House last debated stroke services in July Ann Keen: I certainly agree with my hon. Friend. The 2007, we had not introduced the stroke strategy for consequences after such a devastating attack on the England. However, it was clear from the content of that brain for a person’s ability to lead any sort of normal debate that Members on both sides of the House were life are catastrophic. I hope that, as the debate progresses, united in their wish to see services across the stroke such issues will be raised and that I can address them. pathway improved for what is one of the major health conditions, and one that has historically been regarded We are aiming for a revolution in our stroke services. as a poor relation. The strategy is a 10-year plan, and we are in only the first year—we have a long way to go. However, I want to The strategy was launched by my right hon. Friend outline some improvements that are already happening. the Secretary of State for Health at the stroke forum My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health conference in Harrogate in December 2007. I know said in the stroke debate in 2007 that he intended to from what he has told me and many other Members make stroke a top priority for the NHS. We have done that he found the occasion particularly moving, as the that, and that has been recognised in the NHS operating strategy was received with great pleasure. Indeed, it has framework for 2009-10, in which stroke services are been universally welcomed. The national stroke audit of covered by a tier 1 vital sign—a “must do” for the NHS. 2008 by the Royal College of Physicians stated: Each strategic health authority’s vision for the next “For the first time since we started conducting a national stage review is committed to improving stroke care. sentinel audit for stroke…ten years ago, there is reason for optimism…If implemented,” In addition to the extra funding that has gone to all the strategy primary care trusts, we are providing £105 million of central funds over three years from 2008 to 2011 to “should result in services that are the envy of the world.” support implementation of the stroke strategy. Some Strokes are devastating and the human cost is enormous. £77 million is being used to accelerate improvements in Every year, some 110,000 people in England have a acute and community services. Another £16 million is stroke—one every five minutes. Some 900,000 people in being used for stroke-specific training for nurses, allied England live with the consequences of strokes, which health professionals and other staff, as well as additional are the largest single cause of severe disability in adults. training for stroke physicians, and £12 million is being More than 300,000 adults in England have lasting disabilities used to improve public and professional awareness of as a result of a stroke. the symptoms of stroke and the need to act quickly. Having a stroke has been described as an earthquake The national awareness campaign—Act FAST—was in the brain—it certainly is; it is a brain attack. Strokes launched in February. It cannot have failed to catch can have shattering consequences for families and carers hon. Members’ attention, and many have commented as well as the individuals who suffer them. There is also on its success. I am therefore confident that I should not a major economic context to stroke, since the cost to the need to remind hon. Members that FAST stands for economy runs into billions of pounds every year. face, arms, speech and time to call 999, if the person shows any of those signs. The effectiveness of the John Bercow (Buckingham) (Con): The Under-Secretary campaign is now being assessed, but we already know has referred to the consequences of stroke, including that it has been seen in one medium or another by disability. Will she confirm that something of the order 92 per cent. of the population. of 100,000 stroke victims suffer the consequence of a communication disability? In that context, will she underline the critical role, which needs to be deployed early, of Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): I am intervention by a speech and language therapist, not very impressed by what the Minister is saying, and I least to address eating, drinking and swallowing, and to have a deep interest in the issue. She is talking about Act attempt to ensure that permanent damage to the ability FAST, which is an essential policy if people are to suffer to communicate is not suffered? That is critical, and I the minimum rather than maximum damage from strokes. welcome the fact that we are debating the subject today. However, is she satisfied that people are getting treatment fast, both when symptoms are showing and, sadly, after a stroke has taken place? Ann Keen: The hon. Gentleman has done so much work on the subject, and I know that the House will want to congratulate him on that. He is absolutely Ann Keen: There is more work to be done in particular correct. I know from my many years of experience as a areas. The reconfiguration of some areas still has to be nurse the consequences for the patient and the family if decided, but the understanding of how essential it is to the assessment is not made correctly. Not having a act fast, go to the appropriate clinical facilities and be proper examination of a swallow reflex can lead to very seen by physicians with expert training is paramount. serious consequences for the patient, making recovery The number of lives that have already been saved and, so much longer. The issue that the hon. Gentleman has in particular, the number of severe disabilities that have raised is crucial. been prevented show the progress that we are making. 283 3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 284

Barry Gardiner (Brent, North) (Lab): I welcome accordingly.” Will the Minister look at that carefully everything that my hon. Friend has been saying. On the and ask Richard Sumray and his group how they reach issue of speed, she will know of the consultation that such conclusions? Does she think that they are fair? Healthcare for London has just concluded on the future location of stroke centres in outer London. Does she Ann Keen: I acknowledge what the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is critical that the locations chosen for has said, particularly in relation to the specific case that those centres should have ease of access, so that people he raises. I would be very happy if he would write to me can get to them as quickly as possible, and, in the light about that, so that I can take it forward, because it is of that, that Northwick Park hospital, which already our duty to get things right clinically and in the right serves a growing elderly population and a highly multi-ethnic area. Everybody is agreed on that. The Royal College of population, is an ideal candidate for such a centre? Physicians has congratulated us on how we are managing most of our consultation. However, if there are flaws in Ann Keen: My hon. Friend raises some interesting it that the right hon. Gentleman wants to raise with me points about the recent consultation, which was completed further, I will be happy to look at them. only on 8 May. Announcements will be made in relation to the London strategic health authority on about Mr. Andrew Lansley (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): 20 July, and I know that Northwick Park hospital is My point is not about London. To return to what the held in high esteem for the service that it gives. Minister said about the rapid response associated with the FAST test, the way in which the ambulance service Mr. Shailesh Vara (North-West Cambridgeshire) (Con): responds is very important. We know from the original I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way. She is work in Newcastle that ambulance staff are entirely being very generous indeed with her time. We are all capable of making as good a judgment about whether agreed that treatment in a specialist unit is the preferred somebody may have had a stroke as GPs are. However, option. However, some 81 per cent. of all stroke patients a recent report in the Emergency Medicine Journal are initially admitted to a generic admission unit. We all showed that the software used by ambulance staff to want that figure to be much lower. Can the Minister triage calls was missing up to half of potential strokes, therefore give us some indication of the Department’s that only one in four stroke patients were given a timeline—say, over five to 10 years—for ensuring that category A ambulance response and that in a minority more than simply 19 per cent. of people are admitted to of cases—3 per cent.—potential strokes were given a specialist unit, which will of course be far better for category C responses. Is it the Government’s view that them? we should seek to improve those figures and, in particular, to give possible strokes a category A response? Ann Keen: Our strategy is timed to run over a 10-year period. We are well past the first year, and great Ann Keen: The hon. Gentleman raises an issue that I improvements have been made. As we are speaking, need to look at. I need to see the figures that he has primary care trusts are working, particularly in London, presented and take the matter up, along with my ministerial which I am more familiar with, to see how some of colleagues who have responsibility for the ambulance those services can be brought forward, particularly service. I am very happy to do that, because—I cannot through the training and education of staff, because we say this enough—we have to get it right. All our knowledge need expertise in this area. We have made very good to date is saying that we are progressing in that direction. progress on cardiac conditions by channelling patients However, if there are problems in some areas that we in a particular specialist way, so we know that once we need to address, which the hon. Gentleman has highlighted, have the evidence to say, “We will save lives and correct it is my responsibility and the responsibility of my disabilities if we do it in a particular way,” it will be our ministerial colleagues to take them seriously and to take duty to speed that up to the best pace that we can. them up. Again, I would be very happy if he would like to bring the matter to my attention in a way that I can Mr. Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford take up. Green) (Con): I rise because there are concerns in my area in north-east London, which are shared, by the Although we can never measure the real achievements way, across the Floor of the House by the hon. Members of a campaign such as the FAST campaign, it is more for Leyton and Wanstead (Harry Cohen) and for than likely that outcomes have already been improved Walthamstow (Mr. Gerrard) who are both with me on for many people and it is possible that lives have been this. We believe that the process by which decisions are saved too. The campaign is ongoing, and it is likely to made on hyper-acute services is not at all transparent or return to television later this year. Many people have clear. We have tried to press those responsible on whether phoned and written in to refer to the life that they have the process is set in stone. They say that it is, but then saved, having seen the campaign and been made aware, they change it. For example, the Royal London hospital when they were out at social or sporting events. There received a decision on hyper-acute services on the basis have even been people who saw the advertisement in our that it had a cardiac centre aligned, yet its scores were country and, when travelling abroad, were able to notice no better than Whipps Cross hospital. Queen Elizabeth the symptoms and make people aware, and they have hospital got a decision because of its neurological service, also saved lives. but it has no cardiac service aligned, while others are The stroke strategy mandates the establishment of ruled out on the basis that, somehow, they have neither stroke care networks as a cornerstone of its implementation. of those things. It seems that decisions are made on the Through working co-operatively within a network, services basis of picking winners, rather than on having a set, can be better integrated and better planned, and ensure transparent form that says, “If you have these things, that patients experience seamless transitions across you are likely to get it and we will adjudicate you boundaries within and between health and social care. 285 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 286

I feel confident that social care will be raised with me sure that the hon. Gentleman works positively to bring today. The strategy acknowledges that networks are of these matters to our attention, and I would be happy to huge benefit. All stroke services in England now fall look at whether there is a specific route that we could within one of 28 networks. develop and share best practice on. Many members of The stroke improvement programme, or SIP as it is the third sector will be able to offer the health service a sometimes known, provides national support for improving lot in this regard. stroke and transient ischaemic attack services, working with stroke networks, front-line services, charities and Dr. Murrison: Rather than relying on the third sector, patient groups. Key areas of SIP’s work include providing might it not be better to follow the suggestion of the information and guidance through newsletters, websites Minister’s own emergency group, which is looking into and training events, and ensuring that those working to re-allocating resources in the ambulance service, that help services improve are in touch and up to date. SIP calls relating to strokes should be upgraded from category also runs national improvement projects with 40 front-line B to category A? stroke and transient ischaemic attack teams, focusing on the main elements of the pathway: acute stroke, Ann Keen: That point has already been raised by the TIA, rehabilitation and transfer of care. The projects hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley). are putting best care into practice, helping their patients We always need to see how we can improve these and showing others the way to improve. It is so important services, and I take that issue very seriously. Today’s in our health service to share best practice. debate is about sharing our knowledge and raising SIP works with primary care trusts and public health problems in our constituencies, and we should use it departments to strengthen work on preventing strokes, positively to make improvements. aiming to prevent the estimated 4,000 strokes caused by the under-recognition and under-treatment of atrial Sir Nicholas Winterton: Following up on the points fibrillation. SIP is also bringing together and writing up that have just been raised about the difficulty that some emerging good practice and providing national forums people have in accessing the services that they need, to bring together key leaders for implementing change. may I say sincerely to the Minister that elderly people That, too, is an important element in any change in who suffer strokes often need intensive physiotherapy? organisations, particularly in the health service. We They will get that physiotherapy in hospital, but when have to have good leadership to encourage people to they return to residential care or, in some cases, to a look at their practice and to take seriously the consultation residential nursing home, the availability of that treatment involved, so that they understand why it is important is minimal. Are we going to be able to provide the and why it must be appropriately led. necessary level of physiotherapy and after-stroke care for those in residential care or in residential nursing The sum of £45 million—about 40 per cent.—of the homes? I believe that this is a crisis area. £105 million of the central funding is going directly to the 152 local authorities with adult social services Ann Keen: I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern. The responsibilities as a ring-fenced grant. This is to encourage reality for some people receiving physiotherapy is that and develop good practice in delivering stroke services they wait for hospital transport to take them to their for adults in their communities, to improve outcomes treatment, have their therapy for half an hour, then sit for those who have had a stroke and to enhance their and wait all afternoon to be taken back home. I have quality of living and degrees of independence, as well as often questioned the value of that approach. We are those of their carers and families. now working on transforming community services, Local authorities are working hard to develop services following the High Quality Care for All review and according to local needs and priorities—for example, to Lord Ara Darzi’s Next Stage review, to see how long-term reflect any special support needs of obviously disadvantaged conditions can be treated in the home. The reality is that groups, such as black and minority ethnic groups, those we need to deliver therapy to people where they are, in much lower socio-economic groups, those who might rather than transporting them to it. If we look at this find services difficult to access, and those at higher risk from any perspective, not least the value-for-money of a recurrent stroke. perspective, we can see that transporting patients in that way is not how we should be delivering services. Those Dr. Andrew Murrison (Westbury) (Con): The Minister services should be actively encouraged and delivered is right to say that this is an important public health where the patient is. Training of staff in residential and issue, and reducing health inequalities is extremely nursing homes needs to be improved so that some of important. What account has she taken of the rural that physiotherapy can be given in a more gentle, passive poor, who are particularly disadvantaged in relation to way throughout the day. stroke, given that they are often unable to access stroke services expeditiously? John Bercow: Pursuant to the very pertinent question that my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Sir Ann Keen: The hon. Gentleman raises an important Nicholas Winterton) has just asked, is not the distinction point. I recall travelling to see patients when I worked as in terms of access to the necessary care between those a community district nurse, and I know that many who, by virtue of being in hospital, are—for want of a patients feel very isolated when they have no access to better term—above the radar and therefore readily visible, transport. If they have no close family to help them, the and those in a more private environment who fall below isolation can be awful. We need to go back to the the radar and are therefore less visible? Would the leadership on this. The third sector does an amazing job Minister care to comment on the need for central leadership, in rural areas, but speed, access to services and quality courtesy of the stroke strategy? I sometimes feel that all of life can be difficult to achieve in those areas. I am the parties are poisoned by the dogma of localism to 287 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 288

[John Bercow] Recently, the Stroke Association launched a report, “Getting better: Improving stroke services across the the extent that they do not always recognise that, to United Kingdom”. While recognising that there is more protect vulnerable minorities, some sort of central guarantee to be done, this report sets out some excellent examples or leadership has to underpin local initiatives. of where significant improvements in stroke services have been made. Ann Keen: Those points are being addressed through The strategy noted that staff working in stroke have the strategy of caring for people with long-term conditions variable levels of knowledge and skills and acknowledged in the community. Perhaps I can give a plug to my own that nationally recognised, quality-assured and transferable profession by saying that nurses are leading most of this training and education programmes were needed. Once change. The specialist stroke nurses have always been again, we know from our personal experience and our aware of how the care of the patient could be better casework what constituents tell us—that the quality of delivered. We are aware that, when a stroke has gone care varies so much. That is why effective training and badly wrong and disabled someone to a considerable education programmes are an essential part of this extent, they have often received a Cinderella service. I strategy, and a stroke-specific education framework has think that we can all acknowledge that. been developed to help us achieve that. It is available for Now, however, we are addressing that matter and comment on the stroke page of the Department of asking how we can improve the quality of patient care. Health’s website until 12 June next week. Work to We need to enable those patients to take small steps ensure that this framework is used to improve the stroke towards being able to dress and toilet themselves and to work force is continuing. care for their own personal hygiene. It is important that I also need to acknowledge the important work that each individual should have the extra care to enable individual professionals and multidisciplinary teams in them to do that. These are small steps; this is not high the NHS and social care worlds are devoting to making on the scientists’ agenda. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the stroke strategy a reality. There are many examples to things being below the radar. The reality is that even a cite across all staff groups, but I will cite one example small improvement in the daily living arrangements that from the latest stroke sentinel audit, which says: most of us take for granted will make a difference to the “Marked improvements have been achieved in the last two patient’s life, as will the ability to communicate following years in speed of assessment by therapists after admission. While the horrendous experience of being unable to do so. At far from perfect it is clear that a major effort has been made to some stage, we are all going to be vulnerable to such an improve the quality of care being provided nationally.” attack, and we must therefore go back to the basic Multidisciplinary teams are an essential component of question of how we would want to be treated and what world class stroke care and allied health professionals care we would wish to receive. That must be our starting are already taking leadership roles in developing stroke point, which is why the stroke strategy is so important. services. I want to congratulate our AHPs. The front I congratulate the all-party group on stroke, which is line of health services is always the recognisable face of chaired by the hon. Member for North-East the doctor and the nurse. However, our AHPs are Cambridgeshire (Mr. Moss), on its sterling work. Survivors providing a tremendous service to patients in all clinical have come to the House and communicated with us categories. Given that we are discussing stroke today, I about their difficulties. This debate is welcome, and I would particularly mention the importance of the work welcome the practice that has been acknowledged. I they do once the diagnosis has been made, the CT scan know that we will continue to work on this. provided and the appropriate drugs administered. It is I would like to make some progress now. Local authorities the after-care of the experts that then becomes so are the pivotal access point to a range of services that important, and teams of allied health professionals can benefit people who have had a stroke and who want achieve so much in that respect. We have supported to live independently at home. They are working with regional AHP leadership challenges, which will culminate their NHS partners locally, with stroke networks and in a national final in June to encourage more of them to the voluntary sector to help individuals and carers at an do so. earlier point to reduce the likelihood of increased As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for dependence at a later stage. To support that work, many Health said in his foreword to the strategy: local authorities have used some of this funding to “Collectively, these markers set out on ambitious agenda to appoint stroke care co-ordinators. deliver world class stroke services, from prevention right through I want here to acknowledge the good work that the to life long support.” voluntary sector is doing to help implementation of the Work has begun to make this vision a reality and it will strategy and to recognise the support it has provided for continue. I know that all hon. Members will continue to stroke survivors over many years when stroke was barely work to hold us to account on this strategy; we will ever debated in this House. Volunteers have dedicated work together to continue to improve stroke services for their personal time to improving the quality of life for the people of our country. patients and their families. Third sector organisations such as Connect, the Stroke Association, Different Strokes and Speakability provide enhanced services to stroke 1.14 pm survivors and their carers. They have much of the Mr. Andrew Lansley (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): expertise and skill required to support further improvements First, may I welcome the debate and the opportunity it across a broad range of issues. provides to consider the development of stroke services? All those issues are highly relevant to helping people It comes at an opportune moment, because, as the who have had a stroke to achieve a good quality of life, Minister said, it is approaching two years since we last maximum independence, well-being and, of course, choice. had a debate whose purpose was to identify what needed 289 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 290 to be done. At that point, the Government had just is the right approach given that many emergency published their document, “A New Ambition for Stroke”, departments are perfectly capable of dealing with stroke but that was already more than a year and half after the patients in the first place and ensuring that they get an National Audit Office had published its groundbreaking immediate CT scan. However, I cannot see the benefit study of the delivery of stroke services. I remind the of patients being transferred to a medical admissions House of the work done by the NAO and by the Public unit, and then being transferred to a stroke unit. It is Accounts Committee and I welcome the fact that the not in the best interests of patients to be moved from NAO is in the process of reviewing its report and the one place to another within a hospital. Given that progress made on the strategy. That will be immensely probably about 60 per cent. of stroke patients are helpful. admitted to a hospital on the same day as suffering the Our debate is also timely in the sense that, two years stroke, a much higher proportion should be sent to a ago, we looked at the outcome of the 2006 national stroke unit directly. sentinel stroke audit, and now we are able to consider The Minister spoke about the FAST test. The national the results of the 2008 national sentinel stroke audit, sentinel stroke audit suggests that in 2008 only about a which was published in April this year. This is a timely quarter of patients in total, in the sample, were subject opportunity to look at the progress made. I am pleased to a FAST test by paramedics. That procedure needs to to note from the 2008 audit that an improvement has be embraced, not least because we have rightly told the been recorded in all the standards in respect of the public about the necessity of identifying the symptoms hospital care of stroke patients in England. That illustrates of stroke and treating such patients as a medical emergency. the amount of work done by the Department of Health, The last thing that should happen is that the public and health services and hospitals across the country after patients do not see precisely those criteria being applied the findings of the original NAO report. by ambulance services, by out-of-hours services—in The Minister kindly expressed gratitude for the work whose protocols there is often a gap in terms of done by the all-party group. As chair of that group, I categorisation of stroke—and when patients are would like to thank the Department for its unstinting subsequently admitted to a hospital. support and I also thank hon. Members across the That brings me to the point about immediate scanning. House for their participation. It is excellent that we have The evidence is clear that it is in stroke patients’ best been able to work together to create an environment for interests to receive a CT scan rapidly. In response to the the improvement of stroke care. audit, the Royal College of Physicians said that all As I have said before, I wish it were not necessary for patients admitted to hospital with a stroke or potential the Department of Health to publish a national stroke stroke should be scanned within 24 hours. As the Minister strategy in order for hospitals across the country to will know, in the absence of a CT scan, it is difficult to identify on the basis of clear research evidence the best ascertain what kind of treatment a patient should receive. available treatment for stroke patients. As we will discuss At a basic level, a stroke might be either ischaemic, in the debate, we unfortunately remain in a health resulting, for example, from a clot travelling to the service where the central structure of guidance and brain, or haemorrhagic, from a bleed in the brain. As incentivisation has had a big impact on the extent to clinicians will make clear, unless one knows which type which hospital and community services are reconfigured. of stroke is involved as a result of a definitive scan, it is I promise my hon. Friends that I will touch on how the difficult to provide the appropriate treatment. As a reconfiguration has worked out in London, for example. proxy for providing good treatment, early CT scanning The Minister did not tell us in detail what the national is integral. sentinel audit said about the improvements, so I shall The audit suggests that only 64 per cent. of such take a little time to put some of the key results on the patients were being scanned within 24 hours. Almost by record. First, as I have already said, the improvements definition, a large number of the rest were not able to recorded on all the set standards have taken the cumulative get appropriate treatment as rapidly as they should score in England up to 73 per cent.—a considerable have. Only 21 per cent. were being scanned within three improvement on 2006. Only a small number of hospitals hours—we would not expect that to be possible for have failed to improve. I do not want to diminish in any 100 per cent., not least because for many patients admitted way the progress that has been made, but it is important it would be clear that their stroke occurred more than for us constantly to look at the gaps between where we three hours before, so the option of thrombolysis probably are and where we ought to be. For example, 25 per cent. would not be available. In 2008, barely 1 per cent. of of patients do not get access to a multidisciplinary stroke patients—and fewer than 10 per cent. of those stroke unit, yet the incontrovertible evidence is that for whom it would be appropriate—were being such access gives patients better outcomes. We want to thrombolysed. That is a long way from where we need get increasingly close to 100 per cent. on these figures. to be. Even four or five years ago, countries such as My hon. Friend the Member for Westbury Australia were approaching 15 per cent. of total stroke (Dr. Murrison) made an important point about the patients being thrombolysed, which is nearly the optimum need to question why only 17 per cent. of patients reach level. Therefore, although we are making progress, we a stroke unit within four hours. If patients have been have further to go. admitted to an emergency department first, it is clearly The national sentinel audit looks at nine indicators, not in their best interests to be sent to a medical which are intended to represent a bundle of care that, if admissions unit before being sent to an acute stroke provided to patients, will be indicative of good quality. unit. I recently visited Peterborough hospital, which has Thrombolysis is not included, because it is only appropriate structured its services so that patients brought in in an for a minority of patients. However, many of the items ambulance are directly admitted to a stroke unit, bypassing mentioned by my hon. Friends are included: for instance, the emergency department. I do not know whether that the swallow assessment, to which my hon. Friend the 291 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 292

[Mr. Andrew Lansley] calculates that the journey takes less than half an hour. For local people, the decision to have eight centres is Member for Buckingham (John Bercow) referred. absurd. Interestingly, only 17 per cent. of patients surveyed in the national sentinel audit received all nine indicators of Mr. Lansley: My hon. Friend makes a good point. care. There is significant variation. For example, 69 There are several geographical curiosities. Clearly, NHS hospitals achieved all nine indicators of care—the full London’s intention was to have a geographical spread care bundle—for fewer than 5 per cent. of their patients; for the eight centres. For example, in north-east London, in contrast, three hospitals achieved more than 70 per Queen’s hospital at Romford was identified for that cent. As the audit points out, there is a big gap between purpose. If we look at the distribution of stroke patients those three hospitals and most of the others, which are in NHS London’s own document, however, we see that bunching around 40 to 50 per cent. The three hospitals in north London, Enfield and Barnet have large numbers concerned are King’s College hospital, the Royal Free of elderly stroke patients, and there is nothing there at and Chelsea and Westminster. all. Barnet hospital is a potential location, but it is That takes me on to London and the structure of its fanciful of NHS London to say that either Northwick services. Undoubtedly, there is discussion to be had Park or Barnet would be an option, because if one about where patients should be admitted for hyper-acute shifts to Barnet, a significant part of north-west London stroke care, immediate CT scanning, possible thrombolysis is left without a near facility. and so on. If we reform stroke services, we want that to be readily available. However, the approach differs across Several hon. Members rose— the country. As far as I can tell, NHS London’s approach was to ask an expert panel to assess the quality of care Mr. Lansley: Let me finish my point about London, in a large number of hospitals across London, to establish and then I will gladly give way. whether they were capable of providing good-quality care: in effect, whether they should be commissioned In my view, a greater number of hospitals should be for hyper-acute stroke care. Having spoken to someone allowed to provide the service, if it is viable and the on the expert panel, I know that it reached views on quality is maintained. Let me illustrate that point with that, but then NHS London said that eight hospitals reference to the two hospitals I mentioned. According would be designated as hyper-acute centres. For the life to the national sentinel audit, Chelsea and Westminster of me, I cannot find out why the answer was eight. is among the hospitals with the best quality of stroke care, but it is not one of those chosen by NHS London to offer hyper-acute care. The Royal Free, which is Mr. Duncan Smith: That is exactly the point. In among the hospitals with the best standards of stroke north-east London, we have puzzled over the matter. A care, is also not one of those recommended by NHS reason for one to be made a hyper-acute centre is London to offer the service. Guy’s and Tommy’s is neurological services, but the Royal London hospital another example. As I am sure the Minister knows, the does not have that; it has cardiac services. It is almost as consultant stroke physician Tony Rudd has been an if NHS London sat down and decided which hospitals instrumental figure in the improvement of stroke care, it wanted before the panel was brought into session and and has worked as co-ordinator for the central audit. made its decisions. It is without any logic, as Whipps His hospital has been left out on, as far as I can see, Cross—our hospital—actually has stroke services. It is purely geographical grounds. An arbitrary decision has absurd. been made about the number of hyper-acute stroke units that should be made available to a greater number Mr. Lansley: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for of people. those interesting observations. I have had conversations with Sir Richard Sykes, chair of NHS London, and Stephen Pound (Ealing, North) (Lab): Before the hon. correspondence with Ruth Carnell, chief executive of Gentleman commits Northwick Park to take on the NHS London. I urge NHS London to reconsider whether whole of Barnet, let me point out that in Ealing we have eight hyper-acute centres in London is the right answer. been told that the only hyper-acute unit that we can My view is that there is no evidence to suggest that access will be either Charing Cross or that very same substantial demand for throughput is necessary before Northwick Park. We have also been told that the modelling it is possible to sustain a service. For example, the East is robust when it comes to analysing transport times. of England strategic health authority has said that as May I tell the hon. Gentleman something which I long as a hospital is likely to be able to offer thrombolysis suspect he already knows, and which my hon. Friend twice a month on average, there is no reason why it the Minister certainly knows? Travelling from Ealing cannot sustain the service. From the commissioner’s hospital to Northwick Park or Charing Cross is not an point of view, London should have as many hospitals experience that one would wish on anyone except at offering the service as are willing to offer it. On that 3 o’clock in the morning. basis, they should be commissioned to provide it, as long as they maintain the necessary quality of care. Mr. Lansley: This is what seems to me to have happened. In London there has been a successful first move to Mr. Duncan Smith: My hon. Friend is being generous primary angioplasty in cardiac centres. The provision of in giving way, and I appreciate it. As he will know, one that service requires a significant level of throughput to of the big issues in London is traffic. In relation to the the cardiologist whose job is to undertake primary eight centres, the calculations are completely ludicrous. angioplasty. There are nine centres in London. There is Today, it took me an hour to travel from my house in therefore a trade-off between the necessary level of Chingford to the Royal London hospital. NHS London throughput and access. It is not possible for a large 293 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 294 number of emergency departments or hospitals to offer provides one of the highest-quality stroke services in primary angioplasty, because there would not be enough the country, there is absolutely no reason why it should cardiologists, catheter laboratories and the like. not continue to offer a hyper-acute stroke service through I do not think NHS London realises that it can take a its emergency department. That is entirely a matter for completely different approach to thrombolysis for stroke. the Royal Free. If it does not want to do it, that is fine. I I believe that, given that most full-service accident and merely say that the commissioners should encourage it emergency departments have a protocol providing for to do it, because it will be better located for the purpose immediate access to the next available CT scan and in relation to the population of north London if, for given that CT scanning is available at whatever time of example, Barnet and Chase Farm choose not to offer day might be involved, they should be capable of offering the service. a hyper-acute service. Mark Hunter (Cheadle) (LD): May I take up the hon. Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): I entirely agree with the Gentleman’s point about provision across the country? hon. Gentleman about the arbitrary nature of the proposed The last few Members who have intervened have referred number of acute units, and I hope that that will be exclusively to London issues, but I suspect that the hon. reconsidered. Has not another issue been overlooked? Gentleman will be the first to accept that the inconsistency The millions of people who come into central London of provision and the time that it takes to travel to during the day, including tourists, will also be affected hospitals to access this specific form of care are crucial by the proposed arrangement. It seems even more arbitrary in all parts of the country. In my area of Greater that Guy’s and St Thomas’, which is in the heart of Manchester and my constituency of Cheadle we have central London and has one of the best units in the local hospitals, but we face the same issues of access. country, may be left out. We know from the Royal College of Physicians just how many more lives could be saved if travel times were Mr. Lansley: The hon. Lady will know from what I shorter and access more readily available. Does the hon. have said that I entirely agree with her. Gentleman agree that we have a long way to go before Mr. Andy Slaughter (Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s we can be content with the consistency of access Bush) (Lab): The position is actually worse than the arrangements across the country? hon. Gentleman and my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, North (Stephen Pound) have said. It is true that Mr. Lansley: I do agree, and I think that significant the Ealing stroke unit is closing and that Charing Cross variation is one of the issues on which we should focus. will then be the nearest unit, but in two years’ time it As the hon. Gentleman will know, Manchester has set will move to St Mary’s, which will make travelling even about the task of reconfiguring its hyper-acute stroke more inconvenient and will place the unit in a less services at a much earlier stage than other areas. I think appropriate location. that it, too, is beginning to realise that it may have Mr. Lansley: Both the hon. Gentleman and the hon. unduly restricted the number of centres that should Member for Ealing, North (Stephen Pound) have mentioned offer such services. There was an attempt to focus the Charing Cross, which is also relevant to the way in whole of Manchester on Salford Royal hospital. I hope which stroke services can be organised for thrombolysis. that it will be established that, as time goes on, other If CT scanning is available, there is no need for a hospitals can and should provide those services. radiologist on site to provide the necessary diagnosis. I There is, however, a risk. The Manchester proposals have visited Charing Cross and seen a bank of radiologists were based on the proposition that patients going to providing a 24/7 service. Digital transfer of imaging Salford Royal for hyper-acute care would be there for means that there is no reason why images cannot be sent no more than a day or two, and would then be immediately across London, or indeed across Britain, to a team of transferred to their local stroke units for the remainder radiologists who can provide the diagnosis that is necessary of their acute stroke care. That returns me to the issue for someone to decide whether thrombolysis is appropriate. of incentivisation. Such an arrangement is fine in I am told that the application of thrombolysis itself is circumstances in which, through the tariff, there is a not the most difficult part. The part that must be got clear distinction between the cost of the hyper-acute right is the speedy interpretation of a CT scan so that service and the cost of the other acute services. We the nature of the stroke can be determined. fought a battle for a long time and secured, in the latest Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon) (Lab): The hon. version of the tariff, the ability to “unbundle” it into the Gentleman referred to the question of the Royal Free. acute care and rehabilitation phases. If we are to support Because I was concerned about it as well, I asked the hyper-acute services, it is equally important for us to Royal Free about it, and was told that it had accepted unbundle the tariff in order to separate hyper-acute the proposals. It said that it had services, including thrombolysis, from other forms of acute care, including care provided for patients for “considered… the preferred solution… in the consultation document… that the trust should work collaboratively with UCLH whom thrombolysis is not appropriate. That is not to provide a combined offer which has the potential to deliver a happening at present, and it needs to happen. I urge the truly world class service. Having taken the advice of its clinical Minister to bear in mind that it is important for the community it now endorses the UCLP proposals which would see stroke team to get it right. a combined comprehensive service with one hyper-acute stroke unit… based at UCLH.” Before I leave the issue of variation, let me say that it remains a matter of considerable disappointment that Mr. Lansley: The hon. Gentleman will recall that I stroke services in Wales appear to be consistently poorer visited the Royal Free about seven weeks ago and had a than those in England or Northern Ireland. Scotland is conversation there. I shall rest on my view that as it not included in the central audit. As I said earlier, the 295 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 296

[Mr. Lansley] important for them to ensure that people then get access through the TIA clinic to proper treatment, figure for England has risen to 73 per cent., while the including anti-coagulation. Welsh figure is 58 per cent., which is poorer than the Likewise, it is important that there is a seamless figure in the 2006 audit. The rate of improvement in pathway of care. As my hon. Friend will know, we Wales over those two years has been lower than that in believe strongly that GPs should be much more instrumental England. in commissioning the care, given that they are aware of One glimmer of hope in Wales is the pace at which its quality. By virtue of that, they should be responsible physiotherapy services have improved. Members of the for the subsequent delivery of rehabilitation and support Welsh Assembly clearly wish to make progress. Speaking in the community. Too many stroke patients who have from over the border, as it were, I hope that Welsh been to see us at the all-party group feel that when they Members—none of whom are immediately available—will return to the community after hospital treatment it is as receive the message, and, given that this is a devolved though they have fallen off a cliff edge. Services need to matter, will speak to their Welsh Assembly colleagues be joined up. There are various way we can do that, but about it as a matter of urgency. the role played by GPs would be a big help. I do not want to go on too long because other Members want to speak. I will just make one or two Ann Keen: Would the hon. Gentleman therefore more points. It is important that we continue to ensure congratulate the Government on introducing the NHS that the National Institute for Health and Clinical health check programme, which started in April? As Excellence guidelines on stroke care keep pace, as it hon. Members have pointed out, it is about prevention. were, with what the central audit is telling us and what The programme has the potential to prevent, on average, the Royal College of Physicians guidelines tell us about over 1,500 heart attacks and strokes and to save at least the best available treatment. If we are going to mainstream 650 lives a year. I am sure that he would like to welcome the national stroke strategy throughout the NHS, we that. must ensure that NICE guidelines clearly set out what is the most cost-effective treatment and the most clinically Mr. Lansley: Yes, I was about to discuss prevention. I effective treatment—often with stroke, those two things am sure that the vascular risk assessment will provide a turn out to be the same—and that commissioners take significant benefit in identifying people for whom there responsibility. is scope for prevention. It would be helpful if, when the It is also clear that most primary care trusts across Minister speaks about the number of lives that will be the country have been commissioning stroke services on saved, the Department had responded to my requests the basis of cost and volume and not taking sufficient for the supporting data to be published to justify those account of quality. We need to think creatively about figures. I am sure that, now that she has mentioned how to develop the tariff, not only unbundling it in the them in the House, all the data to support those figures way I described, but applying it to the whole care will be published. bundle, so that the PCTs or other commissioners are There is still a job to be done in understanding, if able to ensure that they are clear that they are contracting people access vascular risk assessments, what the appropriate for a standard of service, with quality indicators built follow-up will be. We must be sure that we do not have a into the services that they buy. lot of people who become “worried well”. They may need an improved diet or physical activity—hopefully, they will not need medication to which they do not have Sir Nicholas Winterton: My hon. Friend has mentioned access. We must ensure that the necessary resources to primary health care. Where does he think general support primary prevention are put in place. practitioners lie in this matter and in the stroke services strategy? Often, symptoms of a potential stroke display On prevention, an NOP poll from October last year themselves over a period of time, before a stroke occurs. showed that nearly one in five of the public still had no What is the role of GPs? Are they linking with other knowledge of the causes of stroke. It is important that professionals to deal with it? Perhaps medication can be we address that. There is good evidence to study. The prescribed, which has not been mentioned so far in the World Health Organisation Monica—multinational debate, to prevent a stroke from taking place. That can monitoring of determinants and trends in cardiovascular often be in the hands of a GP. disease—study published in The Lancet Neurology in 2005 made it clear that if we are going to improve stroke care Mr. Lansley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that “socioeconomic factors seem more important than classic risk intervention. He makes a good point. It is probably fair factors for the establishment of stroke trends in the population” to say that, while quite a lot of GPs have taken a close interest in the development of stroke services over the Therefore, the argument that we have often discussed past four or five years, others are still tending to cling to here about the reduction of inequalities involves not the view that, broadly speaking, people have strokes just health inequalities in isolation—classic socio-economic and the resultant level of disability is not likely to be determinants of health are important in determining much influenced by the speed of or access to treatment. the level of stroke mortality. However, we now know that speed and access to treatment It is also important, and we can now see the benefit can make a big difference. That is certainly true, especially coming through, to note that one of the lessons of that for transient ischaemic attacks. The likelihood of someone study was that the who has had a TIA having a major stroke in the next “quality of stroke care makes a profound difference, not only to four weeks is about 20 per cent. Often it is GPs who are the patient and his or her family but also to the burden of stroke aware that someone has had a TIA. Therefore, it is in the population at large.” 297 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 298

What does that mean? I think that it means that by could respond to thrombylisis. That is why it is so vital educating people in the NHS and beyond about the that people with stroke are treated immediately. I hope causes of stroke, its symptoms, the necessity to treat it that in my brief contribution I shall be able to offer as a medical emergency and the possibility of being able some examples of how we can address stroke and to impact positively on it through treatment, we are reduce the incidence of it, and make sure that the making people more aware of the risk, the disability, the unfortunate people who suffer a stroke can have better mortality associated with stroke and the fact that they treatment. can do something about it. That will, I hope, make a big Crawley has a very diverse population, and 14 per difference to stroke mortality. cent. of people there come from black and minority We need to improve outcomes. It is not that we spend ethnic groups. We do not know why—there is not the less on stroke; we spend a lot on it. However, for too research for us to understand it—but such groups, and long too much of what we have spent has been expenditure particularly Afro-Caribbean people, are disproportionately as a consequence of the disability that results from affected by stroke. I was therefore delighted when the strokes. Too little has been spent to ensure that we South East Coast Ambulance Service NHS Trust decided prevent stroke and that where stroke occurs we access to focus on three areas in Surrey, Sussex and Kent with treatment rapidly. a particularly high proportion of people having to dial There are still significant disparities between treatment 999 because of a stroke, and Crawley was one of those in this country and in others. There is still more we can areas. The trust decided to think about the strategy for do. It is not just about thrombolysis. It is also about dealing with that, and to look at not only responding early supported discharge. Only about a third of patients quickly and getting people into an appropriate unit get access to early supported discharge after a stroke. swiftly, but what role the ambulance service could play We need that figure to rise. There is a continuing agenda, in reducing stroke. That is why I am delighted to be able which we will continue to support and press for to to talk about the work that that service has done. improve stroke services and make their quality more We have debates about the reconfiguration of such consistent across the country.I hope that through prevention services, and some of us—most of us, I think—have and awareness of stroke, stroke outcomes will further been through some very difficult and uncomfortable improve in the years ahead. times, but stroke services illustrate why we have to make sure that these devastating events are dealt with in the 1.48 pm best possible unit. Paul Sutton, chief executive of SECAmb, has always said that the problem is not to do with Laura Moffatt (Crawley) (Lab): I am delighted to be getting people who have experienced an event such as a able to take part in the debate. I was pleased to hear the stroke into the nearest front door, but with getting them hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley) into the right front door—that of an emergency centre talk about how we can prevent stroke and the devastation that will be able to treat them properly. When our that it brings. I do not think there can be a family in the ambulance services arrive at a site, they often do not UK who has not been affected by stroke in one way or pick people up immediately and rush them to the closest another and does not understand how difficult it is to institution. I know that people sometimes feel that they live with the consequences. should do that, but time is taken to examine the patient My hon. Friend the Minister will understand if I and to understand what is going on. Often, the ambulance start by talking about how we used to treat people with will stay at the home for some time, while staff take stroke and how we treat them nowadays. Stroke is one advice about how best to treat that patient and where of the key indicators of how the NHS has transformed best to take them. Stroke is one of those conditions that the way it deals with such devastating conditions. I am serve to illustrate why we have to make sure that patients sure she remembers what we did when someone was go to the right place. admitted to the ward and we knew that they were SECAmb has chosen Crawley as one of the areas on suffering from stroke or some cerebral vascular accident. which to focus, and it will soon have on its streets We made them comfortable in the ward and they stayed ambulances with wraparound advertising for the FAST with us for several weeks. We put their affected arm on a campaign. I do not think there is a single Member who cushion, walked them up and down the ward sometimes will not accept that that has been the most amazing and hoped that all went well when they went home. campaign. I pay tribute to the actors who took part in How different it is today, thank goodness. it—I genuinely hope they are actors—as I think they It was interesting to listen to the debate about the did an extraordinary job in taking viewers through the London reconfiguration of services. There was a time process of understanding what a stroke can look like. when we would not have even discussed where a stroke Their work has had a tremendous effect. Our ambulances patient was admitted. In fact, for a while I was very will have all that advertising on their sides. concerned that we were considering the effects of a One of our stroke leads in SECAmb is David Davis. cardiac incident in much more detail and much more He is an amazing gentleman from Crawley. [Interruption.] forcefully than we were ever thinking about the effects No, he is not the Member who has just been referred to of stroke. We should therefore be congratulated on from a sedentary position; this David Davis is much having this debate and on how we now address stroke. better. He is taking a fantastic lead in getting out into My hon. Friend the Minister clearly set out the the communities that most need to understand the effects of stroke, and how frequently people are affected causes of stroke. He will therefore be found in the by it. In the UK, it kills someone every five minutes. gurdwara, in temples and in mosques, helping people When we cite the figures, it can sometimes be difficult to understand about stroke. If I can make one plea to the understand how devastating stroke can be. Eighty per Minister it is that I want David to do more of this work. cent. of strokes are caused by the clot—the one that I want him to be out there preventing stroke, but he has 299 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 300

[Laura Moffatt] Those in the nursing profession used to say, “Oh well, I’m going to go and look after older people.” That to do his other job as well, of course, and it is difficult should be seen as up there with the most interesting of for a busy ambulance service to be able to free up him services. By making sure there is such high regard, we up along with the colleagues who help with this work. I will be able to ensure that the service continues to want to make sure not only that our ambulance service improve and attracts the very best quality nurses. staff are visible out in our communities doing that fantastic work, but that we have enough paramedics To make sure that that happens, we must ensure that and paramedic technicians to back them up and support the professionals in our communities come together. In them. I want that work to continue because I believe it February, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is having a considerable effect in helping to reduce the launched a well-being programme in Crawley, dedicated number of strokes in our communities. We need to to ensuring that people are exercising, that they are make sure that much more of that preventive work dealing with issues such as hypertension, which of course takes place. is associated with one of the highest predispositions to stroke, that such conditions are being properly monitored Mark Hunter: The FAST campaign has featured in and that diet is being addressed. We also know that the contributions of several hon. Members, and it has, those who are obese have a predisposition to stroke. of course, been a great success, but I understand that This is about tackling all those issues at a very basic the funding that supports it is in place for only three level within our primary care services and about our years. Does the hon. Lady agree that there is a danger emergency services coming together to ensure that people that some of this excellent work could be undone if are less affected by this horrible condition. there is not a longer-term commitment to funding it When somebody has a stroke and receives the initial beyond the current three-year period? treatment—we hope that goes well and that the damage to the brain is reduced—we must ensure not only that Laura Moffatt: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that they get the care in hospital that they desperately need intervention, but I believe that the health services move but that it continues. Local authorities have a huge role so quickly that in three years’ time we will have moved to play in ensuring that timely adaptions are done at on to new campaigns. I certainly hope the FAST campaign home, but co-ordination can sometimes be a difficult becomes part and parcel of our understanding as citizens issue for local authorities to face. They need to ensure of what can happen to people. I see it very much in the that when people are at home—be it in their own same terms as the seat belt campaign in that there is an private home or in local authority or social housing—and initial start-up process, but the point then becomes needing to stay mobile, because that is crucial following embedded in our psyche and in our understanding of a stroke, the adaptions are done in a timely fashion so how we address things. I am fairly certain that there will that life is at least decent for them. come a time when we do not need a stroke campaign, but that we will then have to focus on other causes. We want to ensure that throughout the service, from We have talked about the need for a quick and the first moment that horrible event happens to when adequate response for those with stroke, and it will be a people start to make progress through speech therapy disappointment to all Members if that falls short of the and physiotherapy, things are as good as they possibly excellent stroke strategy requirements for treatment. I can be. The way we can properly tackle this is by do not think any of us would shy away from being a ensuring that more research is done. The Stroke Association critical friend of the NHS if that were necessary, and is a great advocate of ensuring not only that the research from trying to make the situation right if it had gone is done but that people are treated properly, and it does wrong. All of us would happily highlight these campaigns excellent research in all sorts of areas. The Minister may in order to make sure that all our constituents got the be interested to learn that because of the work being service they deserved if they were affected by stroke. done in Crawley, the Stroke Association gave SECAmb a beacon of good practice award. That is something of I believe the stroke strategy has given focus to the which we can be justly proud in our area. whole stroke campaign and an understanding of where we are going with it. Interestingly, in a recent review of That is not to say that we are going to rest on our health services in the north of west Sussex, stroke was laurels, because we must continue to fight for better one of the principal issues that was addressed to try to services for people who have a stroke. We must make strengthen our services. Crawley hospital has an amazing sure that the emergency care is as it should be; we must stroke unit; people come to it quickly after their initial continue to do much more preventive work; we must treatment and there is a great sense of camaraderie. The ensure that everybody within the professions is up to staff are tremendously well motivated and qualified to speed, and that includes GPs, nurses and practitioners deal with stroke. throughout the national health service and beyond; we The Minister will completely understand my second must improve the co-ordination of services when people plea to her, as she is a former nurse, and once a nurse, return home, to ensure that adaptions are done in a always a nurse. Stroke mainly affects people who are timely fashion; and we must support the excellent voluntary over 55, and more commonly over 65, and the treatment groups, which make life better for those who have had a of it should be a well-respected specialism that takes its stroke, allowing them to come together with others to rightful place alongside all other emergency care. Those share experiences and to laugh and cry together over who deal with stroke should be well regarded by those what can be a devastating event for a family. That is so within the wider profession and be regarded from outside important, and those groups are such a crucial element the profession as engaged in a field that contributes to all the work, as the Minister has said. In that way, we enormously to well-being. It is not a second-class field. can genuinely ensure that people who suffer a stroke in 301 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 302 the United Kingdom—and in England and Wales in It is also important that stroke was established as a particular—will have the best possible outcome following “national priority” in the NHS operating framework of what can be the most appalling thing that can happen. 2008-09, which obliges primary care trusts to set out their plans to improve stroke services. I emphasise to Stephen Pound: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, not the Minister that although that welcome strategy is in only for the knowledge and expertise that she brings to place, we need to monitor things at the PCT level to this subject but for her personal commitment to it. ensure that improvements are happening on the ground. Does she agree that if we are seeing a move from the It is also important to stress that although the strategy widely established stroke units to hyper-acute stroke is extremely welcome, the Minister must acknowledge units for our thrombolytic treatment, there is a problem that there are issues to address in respect of not having when it comes to repatriating the patients from the set time scales for some of the improvements within the hyper-acute unit to their home without the intervening 10-year period. Perhaps we need more milestones to phase of the ordinary stroke unit? Does she agree that aim for in order to see how the strategy is being an essential component of precisely the process to implemented. It is excellent that we are talking about which she referred is that the patient move from the this nearly two years after the strategy was introduced, hyper-acute unit to a stroke unit and then home? but it would be encouraging to say exactly where we are aiming to make tangible improvements in stroke care Laura Moffatt: I thank my hon. Friend for that over the course of the 10-year period. I also welcome intervention, because he precisely illustrates the difficulty. the Government’s announcement of their intention to Stroke is such an interesting condition because it involves commission an independent evaluation of the strategy the immediate and pressing nature of trying to reduce and its implementation—that is enormously important, the effect and then the very long and ongoing rehabilitation because we all need to follow its progress. Will the that needs to take place. My opinion is that intermediate Minister let the House know when those results will be stroke units have an enormous role to play; I have seen made public and when that process will be complete? them working well in my constituency and I have no Several matters relate to the strategy and to stroke reason to believe they would not be right for the rest of care in general. The first, as has been mentioned, is the the UK, particularly London, which I know he is very great need for awareness of the symptoms of stroke and concerned about. the need for proper referral from that point. Data from I hope that we feel passionate about stroke, because October 2008 show that 18 per cent. of public respondents we should do. It affects so many families and we have had no knowledge at all of the symptoms of stroke. made enormous strides in tackling it over the years. I Rather more alarmingly, a 2005 National Audit Office am very proud to be able to visit the units and see how report showed that only just over half of GPs would people are treated—I can certainly say that about Crawley. immediately refer someone with suspected stroke for I very much hope that the Minister will be able to say a the emergency care that is so crucial to the outcome for few words about the work of SECAmb, because I stroke patients from that initial point. believe it to be a gold-star service. I want to echo comments made by other hon. Members about the Act FAST campaign, which we all agree has 2.5 pm been enormously powerful in demonstrating the situation Greg Mulholland (Leeds, North-West) (LD): I, too, visibly and in an easy to understand way. warmly welcome this important and timely debate, and pay tribute to Members on both sides of the House for Mark Hunter: As my hon. Friend has said, the Act their contributions and to the all-party group, which FAST campaign has been acknowledged by Members has done so much to push this important area of health on both sides of the House. One of the direct consequences care and health policy up the agenda. As stroke is the of the success of the campaign is that the number of third biggest killer in this country, after heart disease calls to the Stroke Association’s helpline has increased and cancer, and the leading cause of adult disability, it by some 36 per cent. The association says—this is must remain an absolute priority for the NHS. perhaps an indication that it is struggling to meet demand— The Minister has mentioned the cost of stroke care to that it estimates a 200 per cent. increase in the number the NHS. The relevant figure is £2.8 billion, and the of calls that have been abandoned while people were individuals involved—those unfortunate people who waiting to get through. It might be said that that is a have suffered a stroke—take up more than a fifth of all consequence of the success of the campaign, but there hospital beds in the country. This issue has an economic is a real issue about support for the Stroke Association. cost, as well as a real and tragic human one. Some 45 I invite my hon. Friend to agree with me, and I hope per cent. of those who suffer a stroke die from it, not to that when the Minister responds later she will discuss mention the fact that stroke causes the many levels of what further support the Government can give the disability that other hon. Members have mentioned. Stroke Association. We all acknowledge that in the past stroke care did not get the attention or the funding that it deserved, Greg Mulholland: I thank my hon. Friend for that given those stark statistics. Until a few years ago this valuable and important contribution, which addresses a country had one of the worst stroke care regimes in point that I was about to make. I echo his comments in western Europe, but things have turned a corner and asking the Minister, in light of the extra volume of calls, improved since the publication of the national stroke what additional help hospitals and voluntary organisations strategy in December 2007, which was warmly welcomed are being and will be given, so that they can cope with in all parts of the House. It is encouraging to see the the very welcome additional strain that has resulted impact that the strategy has already had and the from the success of the campaign. That is an important improvements made since that very important milestone. area for the Minister to concentrate on. 303 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 304

[Greg Mulholland] achieving what we all hope that it will achieve. Last year, only 8 per cent. of patients received thrombolysis, Do the Government intend to do any quantitative even though 15 per cent. of patients were eligible for analysis of the success of the campaign? I think that it that kind of treatment. Both CT scans and thrombolysis would be very insightful. As has been mentioned by the fall below National Institute for Health and Clinical hon. Member for Crawley (Laura Moffatt), have they Excellence standards. considered the impact on particularly high-risk groups, such as those in certain black and minority ethnic Mr. Lansley: Before the hon. Gentleman carries on, I communities—in particular those from south Asian or think that he will find that just over 8 per cent. of the Afro-Caribbean communities? If the Minister can give appropriate population receives thrombolysis. The us some indication of how the Government plan to appropriate population is about 15 per cent., and about target those particularly at-risk groups, that would be 8 per cent. of those receive it. In fact, the proportion of very useful. stroke patients who receive thrombolysis is just under 1 Let me turn to prevention. Hon. Members have already per cent. said that that is absolutely crucial. When we consider that 20,000 strokes a year could be avoided through Greg Mulholland: Did I not say 0.8 per cent.? preventive work on high blood pressure, irregular heart beats, smoking cessation and the wider use of statins, Mr. Lansley: You said 8 per cent. we see that prevention is an absolute priority in dealing with strokes. Again, if we consider the economic impact, Greg Mulholland: I apologise and thank the hon. preventing just 2 per cent. of strokes in England would Gentleman for that correction. I meant to say 0.8 per save £37 million of care costs. That is a matter that cent. and appreciate the intervention. May I echo what needs even higher priority in the strategy. the hon. Gentleman has said about the inadequacies in I welcome the NHS health check programme. It can CT scans and thrombolysis? NICE guidelines clearly highlight those most at danger from stroke, as well as state that all patients should be scanned, diagnosed and those at danger from other conditions. How many treated with thrombolysis, if required, within an hour. people have been invited to these health checks, and are We have to acknowledge that we have a long way to go the most at-risk groups—the most susceptible groups— before we achieve that. being invited? That is crucial, if the checks are to have Treatment of mini-strokes—TIAs—has already been the kind of impact that we all hope that they will in mentioned. Effective treatment of TIAs is very important, reducing the number of strokes that happen in the as the risk of having a stroke within the first four weeks country. of a TIA is 20 per cent. According to the 2008 RCP On treatment, as has already been mentioned the stroke audit, only 45 per cent. of hospitals meet the most crucial thing for stroke patients is to arrive swiftly stroke strategy’s recommendation of investigating and at a stroke unit. The concerns that suspected stroke treating high risk TIA patients within 24 hours, which patients are not being prioritised sufficiently within the means that 55 per cent. of them are not doing so. ambulance service are very real. In terms of the provision Again, there is a lot of work to do on that, and I ask the of CT scans and thrombolysis, the importance of specialist Minister to give us her thoughts on how the figure will stroke units cannot be overstated. The Stroke Association be improved. has described stroke units as After-stroke care is the final area of focus in this “the single most beneficial intervention that can be provided after debate. There are real concerns about stroke patients—and stroke”. indeed their families, who clearly have an important As other hon. Members have said, however, there are role to play in the rehabilitation and care of stroke disparities in care between those who are admitted patients—not yet having their needs fulfilled in that immediately to stroke units and those who spend time regard. After-stroke care is essential to regaining and on general wards or in accident and emergency departments. relearning skills, sometimes even basic skills of everyday The simple fact, borne out by the figures, is that patients living. Rehabilitation is therefore absolutely essential. who are admitted to stroke units quickly are more likely There have been improvements in that area, but even so, to survive and to make a better recovery. Again, if we only half of stroke survivors receive rehabilitation in consider the costs, the impact on patients and the length the first six months after discharge, and only a fifth do of time involved, such patients will spend less time in so in the next six months. I am afraid that it is an area in hospital than their general ward counterparts, who have which, so far, the strategy is simply not delivering. a 14 to 25 per cent. higher mortality rate. Post-hospital rehabilitation needs to be organised The 2008 Royal College of Physicians audit shows while the patient is still in hospital, and not when they that there has been a huge increase in the number of are discharged, and that has to be addressed. For example, hospitals that have protocols for ambulance service home adaptations clearly have to be done before a emergency transfer of patients to stroke units from 4 patient returns home, so that they can carry on living per cent. in 2004 to 49 per cent. in 2008. That is their life, which is what we very much wish them to be extremely welcome, but, as we have already heard, it is able to do. The provision of information is an easy, not happening up and down the country. I make reference cheap way to assist in the important process of to the particular concerns in London and echo the rehabilitation, but there need to be improvements to concerns about the somewhat arbitrary natures of the that, too. The stoke audit of 2008 that I mentioned decisions that appear to be being taken. found that there had been little progress since 2006 The provision of thrombolysis, as has been mentioned, in improving the amount of information given to is much too limited. I hope that the Minister will agree patients and carers in hospital about reducing the risks that that is an area where the strategy so far is not of a further stroke. Of course, the whole purpose of 305 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 306 rehabilitation is not just recovery, but prevention of a true picture of what is proposed, and it whipped up a further strokes. Some 58 per cent. of those patients for climate of fear in the area. The Tory council then joined whom diet advice was applicable are recorded as having in the act, spending £42,500 on a letter to every household, received it, and much of the information that is provided signed by the leader of the council, who is the Finchley is not particularly helpful. A survey carried out by the Tory parliamentary candidate. Again, it did not put the Healthcare Commission, admittedly back in 2005, found argument fairly, but I am pleased, or not pleased, to say that only 55 per cent. of patients understood the information that it gave the wrong details regarding how people that they received in hospital. should send their response by e-mail, so not many I now come to the issue of care for those who are not responses came in. That was rather a waste of £42,500 able to return home. The voluntary sector does a wonderful of council tax payers’ money. job in many cases, assisting people in coming to terms That set off the local papers, which ran stories about with life after a stroke, yet the resources are simply not NHS cuts, although no cuts, only an expansion of there, as is the case, I am afraid, for a great deal of services, were proposed in our area. A headline in the social care for people recovering from conditions. I ask Barnet press stated, “Council kicks out at NHS bid to the Minister whether it is not time for the Government ditch stroke unit”, although there is no bid to ditch any to consider making more resources available to voluntary stroke unit. Slightly more responsibly, the Hendon & groups to enable people to carry on living their lives in Finchley Times said: the community, or in specialist homes, if that is what “Every minute you lose is crucial.” medical professionals deem that they need. The whole There has been no attempt by NHS London or issue of social care needs more work, and I ask the Healthcare for London to show a true picture of what is Minister to address the issue in her comments. planned. There was not one effort to write a letter to the I welcome the opportunity for this debate. I hope that local papers explaining what is going on, so a good we can have such debates at regular periods throughout news story ended up as a cuts story by default. This is the 10-year strategy, no matter which party is in government. my question for my hon. Friend the Minister: when will It is important that all of us with an interest in this area the NHS get its act together in explaining what is of health care continue to monitor the implementation actually going on? When will clinically led plans—that of the strategy, because all of us in all parts of the is what the plans are—be properly explained by clinicians House are absolutely committed to ensuring that stroke to the public? Is it not time that the NHS had a decent care is a priority for the health service, and is very much communications strategy, with proper, objective, wide at the top of the health policy list. All of us will consultation on such major plans? If we can do that continue to have that commitment, and we want the locally, why can it not be done London-wide, and why strategy to succeed. has the NHS simply ignored all that is going on? It is simply unacceptable, because the proposals are a good news story. 2.23 pm Clinical evidence shows that patients are 25 per cent. Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon) (Lab): I particularly more likely to survive or recover from a stroke if they want to address the issue of the expansion of stroke get treated in a specialist centre. In London, there are services in London, on which Healthcare for London big differences in the quality of stroke care. Rates of has recently been “consulting” as part of its stoke and death in different hospitals vary considerably, and people major trauma consultation exercise. I put “consulting” in outer London have the most limited access to high-quality in inverted commas, as it has been such a botched stroke services, which is why the proposals are particularly consultation that the public see that expansion of services important. For some strokes, clot-busting drugs can as a cut. In my area, we have seen the unsightly picture stop and reverse the damage, but only after a high-quality of one NHS body advertising and lobbying against scan has shown whether the patient is suitable for the another, adding to the atmosphere of confusion and drugs, so stroke patients need fast access to scanning disinformation all round, and turning what should be a facilities to have the best chance of recovery. Currently positive story into a negative one. Members of Parliament fewer than 10 per cent. of suitable patients are offered have been kept somewhat out of the loop, too. thrombolysis. Barnet and Chase Farm Hospitals NHS Trust wrote So what is proposed? As I have said, the proposals to me on 7 April to plead its case, as opposed to that of are not a cut. The NHS plans to invest more than Northwick Park hospital, for being one of the proposed £23 million a year extra in new stroke services for eight hyperacute stroke units, on the basis of its location. London, with more and better trained doctors, nurses Its letter refers to its existing transient ischaemic attack and therapists to deliver those new services. There is a centre and the need for a local stroke unit. It implied proposal for eight hyperacute stroke units, which will that current services would go as a result of the changes, provide the immediate response in the first 72 hours but of course they will not; they will be continued, as after a stroke, or until the patient is stabilised. They will will the services provided by TIA centres and local be open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Anyone stroke units everywhere else, and certainly in my area. having a stroke in London will be taken to one of them Barnet and Chase Farm Hospitals NHS Trust then to have a brain scan. If appropriate, they will receive the took out a full-page advertisement in the local clot-busting drugs within 30 minutes of arriving at the newspaper—an advertisement that I can describe only hospital. as a scare story. It somewhat irresponsibly implied that More than 20 stroke units will provide ongoing care cuts, which are not proposed, would be made, and that once the patient is stabilised, and the transient ischaemic people’s chances of survival would be reduced if the attack services will provide rapid assessment and access trust did not get its own way. It exhorted people to write to a specialist within 24 hours for high-risk patients, or into the consultation supporting its views, without giving seven days for low-risk patients. Everyone in London 307 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 308

[Mr. Andrew Dismore] “This would optimise the number of patients being treated at each site, ensure expert teams are available 24 hours a day—improving will be within a 30-minute ambulance drive of one of survival and reducing disability”. those services. Obviously, the issue of how long that The hon. Gentleman will be aware that if the aim is to journey will take is a matter of contention. It is easy for provide high quality very specialised services, it becomes us who drive around in cars to try to compare how long an argument—[Interruption.] If he will stop intervening it would take us to do a journey with how long it would from a sedentary position and let me make the point, I take a blue-light ambulance, but there is no comparison. shall be happy to give way to him again. The argument The Tory leader of Barnet council—the Finchley in this case is very much the argument advanced back in Conservative candidate—has suggested that the figures the early 1990s by the Government, whom he supported, are based on journey times at half-past 2 o’clock in the for the closure of Edgware general hospital and the afternoon. As part of its analysis, Healthcare for London merging of the accident and emergency department sourced the details of every single ambulance journey in there with that at Barnet hospital, on the basis that by London for three years—about 4 million records. It creating a critical mass of patients, a higher quality compared 100,000 blue-light journeys with 2 million service could be delivered. other urgent ambulance journeys. It assessed the impact That is exactly what is being proposed in relation to of the day of the week and the rush hour on the journey the stroke units. If somebody were to convince me and times, and it conducted a lot more detailed analysis Healthcare for London that an equally high-quality besides. The figure is also backed up by the day-to-day service could be delivered at Barnet hospital, I would experience of the London ambulance service in taking have no objection. My concern is for my constituents—not patients to eight specialist cardiac centres across the for the whole of Barnet, not for Enfield, but for my capital, so it is not surprising that the LAS supports the constituents, who would find access to Northwick Park proposals. To give my own snapshot, I spent a shift rather easier from the particularly deprived parts of my driving around with the ambulance emergency services, constituency than they would to Barnet. and my experience supports the idea that the times are probably achievable. Mr. Lansley: I had not realised that the consultation Locally, research by my PCT in Barnet shows that in London was somehow the fault of the previous people living in deprived areas are more likely to die of Conservative Government, but then everything that the vascular diseases, to smoke and to be obese, and they hon. Gentleman complains about is probably the fault are thus at greater risk of having raised blood cholesterol of the previous Conservative Government. My point is levels, pre-diabetes, diabetes or high blood pressure. not that some of his constituents should be advantaged They are also less likely to visit their GP and have by using Northwick Park rather than Barnet. I contend vascular disease risk factors identified and managed. that there is nothing in the consultation document that There is thus a higher risk and incidence of stroke in the demonstrates why it is not possible, as has been said, for most deprived part of the borough—the west—which is example, by NHS East of England, for a large number my constituency. That has been confirmed by the opinion of emergency departments to continue to offer acute of the PCT medical director, Dr. Andrew Burnett, with care of stroke, including thrombolysis, as long as they whom I spoke last night. Northwick Park is easier to are able to have, for example, immediate access to CT. access from the west, my constituency, than Barnet The emergency departments of most hospitals increasingly hospital—a matter to which I shall return. have access to CT. The images can be sent somewhere For our part of London, consideration was given to else for interpretation—the specialist part—if necessary. Northwick Park, Barnet, University College hospital and the Royal Free. NHS London preferred Northwick Mr. Dismore: I certainly do not hold the hon. Gentleman Park to Barnet, because it provides better travel times responsible for the consultation. His Government were and reflects existing patient flows. These arguments are not interested in spending an extra £23 million on supported by the London ambulance service. From my services. They were interested in cutting services. The area the road to Northwick Park is mainly a straight, point that I am making is that a very similar argument wide major road, whereas the road to Barnet is little was advanced by his Government for closing Edgware more than a country lane. general hospital—that better A and E services could be delivered through the critical mass resulting from a Mr. Lansley: In its document, NHS London presented bigger patient base at Barnet hospital than at the two Barnet hospital and Northwick Park as alternatives. hospitals, Edgware and Barnet. Will the hon. Gentleman explain why they need to be alternatives, and why it is not possible for both hospitals I listened to what the hon. Gentleman said, and no to provide scanning and thrombolysis? doubt my hon. Friend the Minister will respond to it later. We need a critical mass of patients to be able to Mr. Dismore: If the hon. Gentleman reads the deliver high quality services. We have a difference of consultation document from Healthcare for London, view. Obviously, if it is possible to have stroke care at the answer is there. both hospitals, I have no objection, but if that is not possible, I prefer, on behalf of my constituents who live Mr. Lansley: Where? in the deprived part of the borough, the existing proposals Mr. Dismore: “The shape of things to come”, the for Northwick Park to the case for Barnet. compact document which is easier to handle when We debated across the Floor the subject of UCH and making a speech, states: the Royal Free. Preference was given to UCH, although “We believe that hyperacute stroke care should be delivered in I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the services at the no more than eight sites across London”— Royal Free are of a very high quality. As I explained to this is on page 20. It continues: him, I raised the matter with the Royal Free. It has 309 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 310 accepted the proposal that it should work in partnership the British Cardiovascular Society and the Royal College with UCH on the basis that UCH is able to provide of General Practitioners and many other smaller better standards than the Royal Free at the National organisations which belong to the coalition would like Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery, which is the Government to give a commitment to the strategy. part of UCH. It is also important to point out that the The 10-year mental health strategy has been renewed. Royal Free and UCH scored higher than Barnet on Why cannot the framework strategy for cardiac and future clinical standards. vascular health be renewed in a similar way? I await the Given the criteria in the consultation, I understand Minister’s response to the letter that I recently sent her why Northwick Park was preferred to Barnet. It is on that point. important to recognise that the hyperacute units are Cardiovascular diseases, which include heart attack, only part of the story. I object to the scare stories run by stroke, diabetes and chronic kidney disease, affect the the Conservative party that we will see the closure of lives of more than 4 million people in England, cause stroke units and TIA units across London, which is not 170,000 deaths each year, and are responsible for about the case. As far as I can see, not only in my constituency one fifth of all hospital admissions. The challenge posed but in my sector of London, those units will continue. by those conditions is stark. Cardiac and vascular disease That is the general picture, from what I know of other remains the No. 1 cause of death and disability in the parts of the capital. It is wrong to suggest that those United Kingdom, and strokes alone are the UK’s third units will close and to scare people in that way. biggest killer—the second biggest if each type of cancer The TIA services for people who have had a mini-stroke is counted separately—and the single biggest cause of will be provided at hospitals with hyperacute units or severe adult disability. To our continuing embarrassment, ordinary stroke units, as they are now. These assessment the death rate for coronary heart disease and stroke in services will reduce the chance of someone going on to men and women is still higher in the UK than in have a full stroke by up to 80 per cent. TIA and stroke comparable western European countries, and some risk services are provided at Barnet and at the Royal Free, as factors for cardiovascular diseases, particularly obesity well as at Northwick Park and UCH, and they will and a lack of physical activity, are increasing. On current continue to be there. The intention is to provide a trends, 60 per cent. of males and 50 per cent. of females comprehensive service, including the existing units at will be obese by 2050, and, if unchecked, it is predicted Barnet and the Royal Free. that that will lead to a massive increase in type 2 An additional point that I put forward in my response diabetes, with the current trend indicating that more to the consultation was that I would like to see continuing than 4 million people in the UK will have the condition care and rehabilitation services provided at Edgware by 2025. That, of course, will result in a large increase in community hospital as well. The rehabilitation services the number of patients who require medication to prevent there have extra capacity, which could be expanded to cardiac and vascular events. deliver additional help in a constructive way and closer I welcome the national stroke strategy, which was to home for patients suffering from the long-term after- launched at the end of 2007. Two central elements of effects of stroke. the strategy are that patients should be admitted directly to a unit capable of undertaking immediate CT scanning and, where appropriate, undergo thrombolysis. It is 2.37 pm absolutely crucial, as many contributors to this debate Mr. Malcolm Moss (North-East Cambridgeshire) (Con): have said, that stroke victims are seen as quickly as I begin by apologising to the Chair, the Minister, colleagues possible. In that regard, I think that FAST, the new TV and Members in that I may not be in the Chamber for campaign, which has been mentioned on many occasions, the full duration of the debate. I have other commitments has been successful. I commend the Government on at the Foreign Affairs Committee later this afternoon. their initiative in that regard. Strokes are one of the most widespread and expensive There is no doubt that, on the whole, hospital-based conditions in the UK, costing the nation around £7 billion stroke services are improving and more stroke survivors every single year, and on current trends the prevalence is have access to long-term care and support in the community. set to increase at a worrying rate. Years of neglect in this Yet,despite those developments, stroke services throughout area of public health policy have left the UK with the England remain patchy and in need of considerable unenviable reputation of having some of the worst improvement. Sustained financial and political investment outcomes for stroke patients in the whole of western is therefore essential to maintain the momentum behind Europe. improving services that the strategy created. I was lucky enough in April to secure a Westminster Rehabilitation and long-term support in the community Hall debate on cardiac and vascular health. May I take remain the weakest element of the pathway for many this opportunity to thank the Minister for honouring stroke survivors. Previous investigation has found that her commitment to answering the questions that remained only about half the individuals who experience a stroke outstanding at the end of the debate, and for the detailed receive rehabilitation that meets their needs in the first responses that she sent me? It was during that debate six months following discharge from hospital, with the that I highlighted the work of the Cardio & Vascular figure falling to one fifth of individuals in the following Coalition, which has published key recommendations six months. The Healthcare Commission’s 2006 stroke for a new integrated approach to cardiac and vascular patients survey showed that one year after discharge, conditions for policy makers to consider. more than half—about 54 per cent.—of patients said The 10-year national strategic framework is coming that they had not received any home help; that one to an end but as yet we have no firm commitment from third, or 32 per cent., had not received help with personal the Government to extend the strategy for a further 10 care; and that 45 per cent. had not received help with years. The British Heart Foundation, the Stroke Association, applying for benefits. 311 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 312

[Mr. Malcolm Moss] the public health directorate to support prevention messages, particularly in disadvantaged areas and groups. It is I should like to put two questions to the Minister. also vital to make appropriate links with the cross- First, what progress is being made in ensuring health government strategy for tackling obesity and with and social care services work together to provide stroke prevention work, in line with vascular checks. Finally, survivors with a seamless transfer of care from hospital the PCT intends to roll out the scheme in the most to the community? Secondly, what progress has been deprived practices first. That will be of most benefit to made in providing high-quality specialist rehabilitation my constituency of North-East Cambridgeshire, which and support for as long as a stroke survivor requires it? has some of the highest deprivation indices in It is generally accepted that the Royal College of Cambridgeshire. Physicians’ national sentinel audit of stroke has provided The Government say that they are committed to an extremely useful tool for monitoring the implementation evaluating the implementation of the stroke strategy, of standards and improvements in services in the acute but how do they plan to evaluate its implementation, sector, but there has not been a similar focus on monitoring when will the Department of Health commission an community services for stroke survivors. Is it therefore evaluation of progress of health, what form will it take the Government’s intention to consider funding an and when can we expect the results to be made public? extension to community stroke care of the RCP’s auditing In conclusion, stroke services are improving as a process? result of the stroke strategy, but there is still a long way The operational plans for 2008-09 to 2010-11, entitled to go to meet the standards contained in the 20 quality “National Planning Guidance and ‘vital signs’”, require markers. Progress has not necessarily been made at the PCTs to implement the stroke strategy. Monitoring will same rate throughout the country, and, in order to include, first, the number of patients who spend at least maintain and build on the achievements that have been 90 per cent. of their time on a stroke unit and, secondly, made so far, continued investment will be required. In the percentage of high-risk transient ischaemic attacks, that regard, what plans do the Government have to or mini-strokes, that are treated within 24 hours. I am ensure that improvements continue to be made after the pleased to say that NHS Cambridgeshire, my local current three-year funding round ends? How will the primary care trust, has responded positively through its Government ensure that stroke remains a national priority? newly published strategy. Indeed, as many contributors to this debate have emphasised, a key part of the strategy is prevention. 2.48 pm NHS Cambridgeshire recently began a specific initiative Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): I am very pleased to be in the 20 per cent. most deprived practices to implement able to make a short contribution to the debate. I also vascular risk checks and proactively identify more people welcome the expertise that was so clearly demonstrated with risk factors for CVD who will then be added to the by my hon. Friend the Minister, by the shadow Secretary CVD risk register. It intends to offer practices a range of State for Health, the hon. Member for South of options for providing vascular risk checks to those Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley), and by my hon. Friend people aged 40 to 70 years old, ranging from practices the Member for Crawley (Laura Moffatt). managing the vascular checks in their entirety, to working I speak not with any expertise in the matter, but as with a health adviser and community pharmacy-based someone who has spent some time at their local hospital, provision. Guy’s and St. Thomas’s, and received valuable advice There is no doubt in my mind that in community from Dr. Tony Rudd. I am well aware that I am not an pharmacies we have a fairly universal and readily accessible expert in the same sense as some of those who have professional resource that could play a key role in an already spoken, but, as a London MP, I want to look at NHS health check programme. I strongly believe that the consultation in London—the Healthcare for London community pharmacies could play a vital role in the consultation entitled “The Shape of Things to Come”. I battle against stroke by, for example, providing a regular welcome much of it and believe that it is in line with the blood pressure and cholesterol test. That new role seems Government’s excellent prioritisation of stroke services. to have been actively encouraged by parts of the NHS, To that extent, I welcome again the national stroke but not universally. Some PCTs seem reluctant—through strategy and the work done by the all-party stroke ignorance, professional opposition, lack of focus or group and the Stroke Association. I particularly welcome simple tardiness—to embrace its great potential. I am the dedication shown by the Under-Secretary of State delighted that NHS Cambridgeshire has alluded to the for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford potential role of pharmacies, but it requires more than and Isleworth (Ann Keen), to the issue; it is great to just a reference in a strategic document. A commitment have a Minister who has had hands-on experience of to driving the concept through at ground level is vital, working in the national health service. and I, for one, will monitor the PCT’s progress. As we all know, we need to develop new, high-quality The PCT’s strategy also means that patients will be stroke services in London. There are inequalities that identified with risk factors using the Framingham method, need to be addressed, and the document will have including those with post myocardial infarction and addressed many of them. The problem arises when I those with transient ischaemic attacks. It means also come to consider my own area and the rest of south-east that patients alert will be utilised for GPs, indicating London. At the moment, King’s college hospital and when preventative measures are required, in line with St. Thomas’s hospital have very good stroke units. National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence King’s college London, the Maudsley, King’s college guidance. The PCT will continue to make the links to hospital, Guy’s hospital and St. Thomas’s hospital are smoking cessation services, with a guaranteed recording working in an admirable way; they are doing hugely of data on lifestyle and outcomes, and it will work with valuable work right across London. 313 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 314

King’s college hospital and St. Thomas’s hospital, of commuters from outside the city, the tourists and so together with their academic partners at King’s college on. The majority of those people come to central London. London, have a long history of collaboration on stroke That is not to say that we do not need to improve services; that will inevitably increase as a result of the radically the services in outer London areas, but I do successful accreditation of King’s Health Partners as an not see the rationale for getting rid of the really good academic health science centre. The collaboration has unit in central London—in the critical area of St. included the primary care trusts of Lambeth and Thomas’s, with its access to railway stations—to create Southwark, encompassing the full pathway of stroke something bigger elsewhere. King’s college, Guy’s and care, including out-of-hospital care. The two hospitals St. Thomas’s hospitals are already working together, have consistently been among the highest scoring in the and they want to do so. Royal College of Physicians national sentinel stroke There is a need for a radical approach to modernised audit, including the most recently published report of stroke services in London, and much in the proposals is April 2009. excellent. For example, this is the first time that standards Under the proposals, there would be one large hyper-unit have been set with clear requirements on the providers at King’s college hospital. Like other colleagues who to deliver appropriate staffing levels. The issue, however, have spoken, I genuinely cannot understand the rationale is about the actual model that has been chosen for for going for the strict decision in favour of eight large London; that needs to be considered again. The people units. As I said, I speak from a common-sense, not an who are already working well in those hospitals and expert, point of view, but to me there is no evidence that really know what is happening have not been listened to the model of very large acute stroke units with 20 to 30 enough. NHS London needs to listen to the professionals, beds and, say, 2,000 to 3,000 admissions a year, is a not entrench itself in what seems to be a fundamentalist clinically effective, safe or feasible way of delivering approach. The approach needs to change; the primary stroke care. It has not been tested anywhere else in the care group that makes the decision in July needs to go world, and the vast majority of the professionals consulted back and make sure that it has listened and understood during the development of the plans favoured a larger what is happening in the units that already do extremely number of units—perhaps 10 to 14 throughout London— good work. with fewer beds. St. Thomas’s serves diverse communities, which are There are concerns that big units will not make sense more likely to be in need of a stroke unit. It also deals when so few people in London receive high-quality with commuters and all the tourists who come to central acute stroke care. The interim period, during which the London. It has the expertise. The idea is to let that go to eight high-quality units will be developed, will be a long create a bigger unit at King’s college hospital. Why do time—a minimum of three to five years, according to we not allow the two hospitals to plan and work out what I have been told; I am thinking particularly of the together what is in the best interests of the area? I hope units that were not established beforehand. With the that those making the decision at the end of the consultation best will in the world, units designated for eventual will listen. If I had to choose between the expertise of closure are bound to suffer planning blight and will Dr. Tony Rudd and that of members of the primary quickly deteriorate to unacceptable levels through the care trust, I know who I would support. loss of good staff to other centres and the failure to recruit new staff. 2.58 pm The good units that we have at the moment will be Dr. Andrew Murrison (Westbury) (Con): I start by needed to help, support and develop the increased new recognising the improvements that have been made to units. However, that will get more and more difficult if stroke services in recent years. There has, of course, there is not the necessary flexibility, particularly if anything been a gradual improvement since the war, but the focus goes wrong or if there is a surge in demand. on strokes has increased in the past few years. A great deal of the credit for that must go to our clinical Harry Cohen (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): My hon. networks, health care professionals and the research Friend is making a good point. Does she agree that if a community. I say that particularly because 25 years ago lot of investment has to go into the eight major centres, I trained in a national health service that did not regard there is a danger that other, more local hospitals that strokes as a particular priority. The hon. Member for have not been chosen to be hyper-units, but run good Crawley (Laura Moffatt), who is no longer in her place, acute centres and transient ischaemic attack, or TIA, reflected on the standard of care and the expectations services, could be starved of the cash necessary to of stroke patients that prevailed at that time, and that maintain—or, indeed, improve—their services as the put me in mind of the sorts of cases that I came across. money goes to the hyper-units? Is that a danger? It was all particularly to the disadvantage of older people; classically, elderly stroke victims have tended to Kate Hoey: I welcome the increased investment that be put to one side. I am pleased to note that that tends the Government are putting in, but the danger to which not to be the case these days, but there is perhaps some my hon. Friend refers is there. There is always a danger complacency, and a danger of forgetting that the elderly that large super-duper elements in any provision will are still not given the priority that they deserve. Stroke, tend to take away from what most people want, which is given that it is classically a condition that is more likely good local services. with advancing years, is a case in point. I go back to the point about central London that I Having marked the improvement in standards that made in an intervention on the hon. Member for South has prevailed over the past few years, we must also Cambridgeshire. The consultation document’s calculations recognise that it took rather a long time for the Government for all the bed requirements do not take into account to come up with their national stroke strategy—some the non-resident population of London—the huge numbers 10 years—and it required a bit of prompting by way of 315 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 316

[Dr. Andrew Murrison] sometimes alarmingly, by health care professionals on the front line. That has been clearly shown by NOP and the 2005 National Audit Office report, “Reducing Brain MORI polling over the past few years. Damage: Faster access to better stroke care”. I may be a pedant, but I think that the hon. Member for Leeds, Since the figures came out in October 2008, we have North-West (Greg Mulholland) was a little hasty in had the Department of Health campaign. We have all suggesting that the national stroke strategy had had seen the television adverts that are part of that, which demonstrable effects. It may well have had, and I suspect have been extremely good. The images are disturbing, that it will be effective, but we must be careful about but it is sometimes necessary to be fairly hard-hitting in making premature assertions that are not firmly rooted order to change attitudes and behaviour. We will have in the evidence. to see whether the effects of that campaign are enduring. I was concerned to hear the hon. Member for Crawley, Greg Mulholland: I am not aware that I used the word who has some experience in these matters, suggest that “demonstrable”. In fact, I was referring to improvements in a few years’ time, when the funding runs out, we mentioned in the audits, so they come from evidence, might simply move on to the next hot topic. Our approach not opinion. That is an important point to make. needs to be a bit more long-term than that. As we have seen with road traffic campaigns, there is a danger that Dr. Murrison: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, when we go on to the next topic we forget the public but he needs to understand that there is a danger in health messages that have been put across effectively, at extrapolating evidence from the sentinel study—I think least in the short term. That would be a great pity in the that that is the one that he was citing—which came out context of stroke. There have been a few measures of just a few months after the implementation of the the campaign’s effectiveness—for example, the Stroke national strategy. Given that it is a 10-year strategy, and Association has said that it has had more inquiries since given previous trends, it would be extremely rash to the campaign kicked off in February. However, I should suppose that it had had any effect at the time of the like the Minister to clarify what assessment the Government sentinel audit. I very much hope that the strategy will intend to make of its enduring effectiveness, which prove to be successful—I suspect that it will—but we would, I hope, inform any future campaigns. need to be a bit careful about the language that we use If we are serious about public health and dealing in anticipation of that. with health inequalities, we have to address stroke, It is important to compare this country’s outcomes which is far more prevalent in less advantaged groups in and incidence of disease with those nations with which our society, as well as in certain ethnic groups. We need we can reasonably be compared. In this context, I think to try to work out why that is and put in place measures particularly of western Europe. Standardised death rates to reduce that inequality. In my intervention on the from stroke among men under the age of 64 are nine per Minister, I mentioned the effects of stroke on the rural 100,000 in the UK compared with seven per 100,000 in poor. It is bad being poor, but it is particularly bad in a France. The equivalent figures for women are seven rural location where access to services is extremely deaths per 100,000 in the UK compared with four per difficult. Following my intervention, and that of my 100,000 in France and in Spain. The UK has some of hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire the worst outcomes for patients in western Europe. In (Mr. Lansley), I wonder whether she has had any note one study, the differences between the UK and eight from the Box about upgrading stroke from category B other European countries in terms of the proportion of to category A, which is being considered by the patients left dead or dependent were between 150 and Department’s emergency call prioritisation group; if 300 events per 1,000 patients. That statistical material is not, perhaps it would be possible to communicate separately rather technical stuff, but it points towards patients in on that subject. Such a step might be a way of improving Britain not doing as well as they have a right to expect, access for people with stroke who live in rural areas. and it certainly suggests that there is no room for complacency. There is evidence that someone’s chances of optimal management for stroke are best if they arrive at hospital The Minister spoke about health checks and vascular by ambulance. However, according to the sentinel audit, risk assessments and invited the Opposition to support only 17 per cent. of patients reach a stroke unit within those initiatives. I have campaigned for many years for four hours of arrival at hospital. I suspect that further screening for abdominal aortic aneurysm, yet despite work needs to be done in accident and emergency to recommendations by the National Screening Committee improve triage and expedite the definitive management we still do not have a credible roll-out of national of stroke patients. That appears to be especially required screening for that particular condition. The Government at weekends, as, crucially, the chance of getting a scan, need to be careful; interventions in the public health and therefore definitive treatment, is very much less out sphere, particularly in terms of prevention, need to be of hours. based on the evidence, which points towards instituting a screening programme expeditiously. I very much regret that that has not been done. Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): The hon. Gentleman What has changed over the past few years with stroke? is making an excellent speech. A brain scan should take It has gone from being a condition with chronicity to place within three hours, and it will determine the one that is seen as existing within the acute sector. It has outcome for stroke victims, so it is absolutely essential. become a medical emergency; of course, it always was, Will he at least give the Government credit for their but it was not recognised as such. Unfortunately, as the policy of trying to ensure that stroke victims get taken Stroke Association observes, it is still not necessarily by ambulance straight to a specialist centre rather than seen as a condition that requires immediate treatment to a general hospital so that they can get that treatment and management—neither by potential patients nor, early, which will improve outcomes for them? 317 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 318

Dr. Murrison: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman conditions. Stroke is not unusual, it is bread and butter for his intervention. I will deal with the question of for district general hospitals. If it were removed from specialist units versus district general hospitals in the their responsibility, one would wonder about the remainder of my speech. However, his remarks spark foundations of the district hospital model. Quite honestly, me to reflect on the change in radiological protocols a condition that causes the third most deaths in this that have occurred in recent years. There has been a country and sadly provides a patient every five minutes strong trend towards reducing the amount of elective in England must be part of the underpinning of any work that is done out of hours. For example, it is now acute service and part of its bread and butter. difficult to get a chest X-ray out of hours unless it is a The investigation and treatment of stroke is not real emergency, and very few are defined as emergencies particularly complicated. In saying that, I do not underplay requiring imaging. That is fine—it is absolutely right—but in any way the expertise of those who specialise in it. It I sometimes wonder whether we have gone a little too relies upon a CT scanner—we are working towards a far. I suspect that as part of the process, there is less position where pretty well every hospital will have one—and willingness to do CT scans on stroke patients out of access to telemedicine. In other words, a particular hours. We need to look again at our protocols to ensure hospital does not necessarily need a specialist, because that a medical emergency is investigated as such, 24/7. the information can be relayed and, crucially, a diagnosis made in that way. The treatment itself should not be Harry Cohen: The hon. Gentleman made a good beyond any acute unit in this country. point about the need to improve triage at the hospital to which a patient is taken, including at the weekend. Mr. Lansley: My hon. Friend will not have had an Although there has been an improvement in ambulance opportunity to look up the figures before responding to services, does he believe that one missing element of the the hon. Member for Castle Point (Bob Spink), but the stroke service is a review of whether we can get further latest figures in the sentinel audit clearly demonstrate improvements, so that ambulances get to patients quickly that Southend hospital had the best results anywhere in and get them to the main centres quickly? Does he think the east of England. that there is a case for that? Dr. Murrison: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will Dr. Murrison: Yes, and I understand that the Minister’s have noted that with some pleasure. Department is doing that work at the moment. It is We need to be careful about using a Darzi extrapolation reviewing whether we should upgrade from category B to the point where we lose immediacy and patient from category A—from 18 minutes to nine minutes—the access. I speak as somebody who represents small towns response time for stroke cases. It will be interesting to and a rural area in Wiltshire. So far as I am able to learn the outcome of that work. I suspect that part of gauge my constituents’ wishes—we have all had some the reason for the effectiveness of arriving by ambulance opportunity to gauge interest on a range of subjects rather than under one’s own steam, and the likelihood over the past few days—it seems to me that what they of getting prompter treatment when arriving by ambulance, want is local services, locally provided, unless there is is that triages are undertaken by ambulance crews. They very good reason why not. Our national health service are therefore able to pre-warn specialist stroke units should be designed around their needs and wishes rather that a patient will be arriving. Across a range of clinical than necessarily the convenience of practitioners or areas we find that such warning expedites admission to how they want to operate. specialist units, as patients do not have to go through the sieve of accident and emergency and the inevitable Stroke is a good case in point, because there is no real delay that is caused. I have some first-hand experience reason why we cannot provide both diagnosis and treatment of that. in a specialist context within district general hospitals. It would be a real pity if we were to rusticate stroke Stroke services are somewhat patchy across the country. services to our great clinical cathedrals in our larger A postcode lottery applies, despite the fact that we have urban centres. London has been discussed at length a national health service. The Stroke Association is today, and those services should not be restricted to a concerned about that, as is the Royal College of Physicians, small number of hyper-acute units in the capital. and the sentinel audit underscores that concern. In my own area, I find to my delight that according to the audit, the Royal United hospital and Salisbury hospital 3.16 pm are reckoned to be good. However, my constituents go much further afield on occasion, and I find that Yeovil, Mr. Andy Slaughter (Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s Bristol, Weston and Gloucester are okay, but that Taunton Bush) (Lab): I shall begin by talking about some and interestingly Swindon have much room for improvements in stroke services. From that, my hon. improvement. Friend the Minister can see where my speech will go I caution against the evidence that has accrued about towards the end. the use of specialist centres being used to favour large I make no apology for continuing to talk about centres at the expense of district general hospitals. London services, the increased investment in which is Stroke is not an obscure disease, it is a condition that welcome. There has been £23 million of additional strikes somebody in England every five minutes and the spending on stroke services, as my hon. Friend the third most common cause of death in this country. The Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) said. There is a hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore), who is no predicted increase in survival rates of some 25 per cent. longer in his place, talked about critical mass, which is Notwithstanding the fact that, as he said, some deliberate important in the case of tertiary services. Nobody doubts misinformation has been put about by Opposition that a patient should go to a tertiary unit for obscure parties—I shall say something about that in a moment—it 319 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 320

[Mr. Andy Slaughter] no longer to have one of the new hyper-acute stroke units there in the longer term. To avoid doubt and to be is interesting that all parties have taken on board the brief, I can do no better than read out part of my central point about the creation of hyper-acute stroke submission to the consultation. I said: units. “I do not accept that this consultation has been properly or I tend to agree with what the Opposition have said transparently conducted and I believe the outcome of it—certainly about the strict adherence to numbers. The idea that as far as it affects my constituents—has been pre-determined.” specialist stroke treatment will be a major factor in The right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford saving lives over the next few years was initially received Green (Mr. Duncan Smith) made that point earlier. My with some scepticism, but in the light of overwhelming submission continued: clinical evidence it has now been widely accepted, which is a good thing. “I remain hopeful that I am wrong in this surmise, but if I am not I hope there may be some challenge, legal or otherwise to the Like others, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the proposals Healthcare for London are currently recommending Minister for her contribution, not only in her professional for Charing Cross Hospital. capacity and as a Minister but as my neighbouring MP. Specifically, there is no clarity as to the process by which the I was very pleased to celebrate the 60th anniversary of preferred location of the fourth major trauma centre was switched the NHS with her late last year at Charing Cross at short notice from Charing Cross to St. Mary’s Hospital. This hospital, where she herself has worked and in which she having been done however, there is a preferred option for St. continues to have a great interest and support me. The Mary’s stated in the document with an attached footnote that the Minister of State, Department of Health, my hon. transfer of the hyper-acute stroke unit (HASU), currently proposed Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr. Bradshaw), who for Charing Cross, will in the space of two to three years follow was briefly in his place, has been extremely helpful with the trauma centre to St. Mary’s. I have spoken to clinicians at Charing Cross who believe this is the wrong course of action both regard to the difficulties that I have experienced in the in clinical and geographical terms. But this aspect of the proposal current consultation. does not appear to be open for discussion. Rather it is the settled Finally, I pay tribute to the Stroke Association, which view of Healthcare for London that co-location is the sine qua others have mentioned. It has done an excellent job in non in deciding the location of this HASU. its recent report and in encouraging the Government I do not see how Healthcare for London expect serious responses and giving them praise where it is due. I do not say that to such proposals which have all the appearance of being last only because when its staff were testing blood pressure minute, botched and above all so closely interconnected as to be in Portcullis House last month, they said that I had the incapable of being unravelled. I do not think the logistics of blood pressure of a young man. I think is the only thing moving stroke and neurology services from Charing Cross to St. that I can claim to have about me that is of a young Mary’s have been properly studied: the site, the funding and the relative size and importance of the clinical units at both hospitals man. strongly suggest the better option is building on the excellent The current consultation ended on 8 May, and it has provision currently at Charing Cross. been mentioned several times this afternoon. The matter I would like to be reassured that if as expected a HASU opens has been shockingly handled by Healthcare for London. at Charing Cross later this year, if the proposal to move this to St. I shall start by dealing with my simpler concern: the Mary’s in 2012 or shortly thereafter is pursued there will be a full stroke unit at Ealing hospital. If the current proposals and impartial consultation at that time.” are implemented, that stroke unit will be closed. When I The well respected and extensive stroke services at spoke to the neurologists and other professionals at Charing Cross were to be combined with one of the Ealing, I found it was envisaged that the alternative major trauma centres for London, but the quality of provision would be at either Northwick Park or Charing the trauma bid was apparently not good enough, as was Cross hospitals. Things have now moved on, and there the case with the Royal Free, in which my hon. Friend is a worse plan. However, even at that stage, there was the Member for Hendon has a constituency interest. serious concern and some astonishment at such a proposal. Rather than those two bids being resubmitted, at short I could speak for a long time about that one issue, and I notice the trauma centre bid was switched to St. Mary’s am sure that other hon. Members could present arguments and that is now the preferred bid. It has been admitted for hospitals in their constituencies or those nearby, to me in several meetings with health care professionals, which their constituents use extensively. the hospital trusts, the primary care trust, Healthcare Ealing hospital stroke unit provides good care, has for London and, indeed, the Under-Secretary, that it is just been refurbished to a high standard and is in the a done deal: St. Mary’s will be the trauma centre. top 25 per cent. of stroke units in the country. It is by no means clear from the current proposal how the many Suddenly, as an afterthought, and done by asterisk people from the borough of Ealing and around who use and footnote in the consultation document, and clearly the unit will be accommodated in future. There is no because the co-location proposal is sacrosanct, the stroke evidence that the capacity problems arising from the unit at Charing Cross, which is currently being prepared stroke unit’s removal will be picked up by the alternative and will open, function and doubtless be extremely proposals. However, at least the proposal for Ealing is good for two years, will somehow move to the St. Mary’s clear. The unit is to close and there is to be alternative site, which is inappropriate. There is no provision for it provision. I repeat that the case for the need to hone and clinicians to whom I have spoken doubt whether provision to eight units and the case for their location there are funds for it. The proposal is a dog’s breakfast, have not been well made, but at least the decision is for want of a better phrase. clear, if incorrect. There may be a guarantee of further consultation in The position of Charing Cross hospital, which is just future. That is not good enough. I have made the point outside my current constituency, but extensively used strongly to the chief executive of Healthcare for London by my constituents, is far from clear. There is a proposal that no proper consultation has been carried out—that 321 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 322 is clear from the document—and the matter needs to be There is now a ridiculous conflict of interest, whereby revisited. Clearly, decisions have been made and put out the managements of the Conservative local authority for consultation thereafter. and the local health service have fused. Therefore, the One of the unfortunate side effects is the mischief person who is charged locally, as the chief executive of that can be made, and mischief aplenty has been made what was called the PCT, with rebutting the accusation with the future of Charing Cross hospital for more than that the health service is not receiving investment, is four years. It is a perfect site for a hospital; it is perfectly being downgraded and is in decline, is exactly the same accessible. The decision affects not only constituents in person putting out the propaganda saying that it is. The Hammersmith and Fulham and Ealing but those in the situation is quite surreal. I have raised the matter with entire London boroughs of Hounslow and Ealing and Healthcare for London, but it prefers to make no the wider area of west London, to whom Charing Cross comment. Just as in Hendon, where one part of the is far more accessible than St. Mary’s. The site is large, NHS is briefing against another, we now have a chief with plenty of room for redevelopment, which is already executive of the local authority who damns the health taking place. However, the botched decisions, the poor service in the morning and then, as the chief executive quality of decision making and the lack of information of the health service, tries to defend or praise it in the allow mischief to be made. afternoon. There have been persistent rumours of downgrading That cannot be allowed to continue, because at bottom or closure since 2005. The hospital was a major issue in it affects my constituent’s confidence in the local health the general election campaign. It suits the Conservative service, which is excellent and improving. In my opinion, party locally to continue to keep those rumours alive the only solution is to abandon at least those parts of and I have therefore been in conversation and the consultation that are discredited and were never correspondence with successive Health Ministers since consulted on in the first place, and which can only lead I was elected to get assurances about the future of to a conclusion that is at best inadequate and at worst Charing Cross hospital. Those assurances are freely detrimental to patient care. I would ask my hon. Friend and readily given, and I have a copy here of the latest in responding to this debate to say that she will ask letter from the chief executive of NHS London, which Healthcare for London to look at the situation again, is dated 29 May. because it is not satisfactory for us to go forward with, on the whole, an excellent proposal for stroke and The letter states that even if the hyper-acute stroke trauma care—one that will improve services and save unit moves in due course from Charing Cross, the lives—without the certainty that things are being done “stroke unit at Charing Cross hospital will be enhanced to deliver with honesty and integrity, and in a way that will not high quality stroke services for the people of Hammersmith and confuse or undermine the health service in west London Fulham. We expect Charing Cross to retain a full range of or people’s opinion of it. services as a busy hospital for local residents maintaining its prominent position in the community.” 3.32 pm The letter goes on to say that the hospital will provide “a broad range of elective specialist services, as well as emergency Dr. Richard Taylor (Wyre Forest) (Ind): Let me start services with the associated medical specialties, and an active by declaring an interest, in that I am very much in the A&E. It will continue to provide neurology and stroke services, age group of those who can expect to suffer a stroke at including post 72-hour stroke care, rehabilitation and outpatient some time in the not-too-distant future. I support the services.” hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) and have visited The chief executive could have added that one of the the stroke unit at St. Thomas’s, which is absolutely largest and most ambitious polyclinics is being built excellent, and I would be delighted to go there, if I had there, with a full GP practice on the side, in addition to to. many other new buildings, including the highly prestigious I will be as brief as I can and cover just three aspects, Maggie’s cancer centre, which was visited by Sarah the first of which is emergency calls. It is crucial that Brown and Michelle Obama on the President’s recent emergency calls are taken seriously by all facilities—that visit. There is therefore no question but that Charing is, by the ambulance people as well as by the doctors. I Cross has a bright and expanding future, with or without have long argued in favour of having another telephone the hyper-acute stoke unit and trauma centre. Again, let number in addition to 999 for those who do not think me make it clear for the record that the Government are that they are an acute emergency, but would like advice. to be praised for that investment. In addition, since the That is particularly important for someone who gets a formation of the Imperial health care trust and the transient ischaemic attack, but then gets better and Academic Health Science Centre, the prospects for health does not know what to do. It would be useful if they care in west London have never been better. had another number that they could contact easily, However, the chief executive and the Minister can which would tell them that such an attack is a serious write as many letters to me as they wish, but what my warning that they have to act on. constituents believe—because they are told so every Let me turn to stroke care networks. I would like the fortnight in the only local newspaper in wide circulation, Minister to tell me in her winding-up speech what her which is controlled by the Conservative council—is that idea of the stroke care network is. An article in the Charing Cross is being downgraded or closed. That is 21 May edition of the Health Service Journal entitled deliberate disinformation, exactly as my hon. Friend “Sink or Swim” deals with the importance of district the Member for Hendon said, put out with mischievous general hospitals to local communities. We should be political intent by the Conservatives. However, they considering two different kinds of stroke unit, namely would not be able to do so were it not for the administrative larger units in major centres and local units, which are confusion, complacency and lack of attention by health crucial for sorting out people with transient ischaemic service managers in London. attacks and with strokes that do not necessarily need 323 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 324

[Dr. Richard Taylor] and nurses in the Farley unit at Salisbury district hospital for all their after-care in the past four weeks. In particular, thrombolysis. NHS East of England has already been my mother-in-law, Susanne, my wife, Lucy, my brothers- referred to in the debate, and it is mentioned in the in-law, Tom and Matthew, and my sister-in-law, Rose, article: share my gratitude. “Many district general hospitals are keen to retain core emergency As we have heard from my hon. Friend the Member services. NHS East of England has committed to retaining A&E for Westbury (Dr. Murrison)—in whose constituency and consultant led obstetrics at all its trusts and thrombolysis for stroke patients, at least part of the time.” my in-laws live—stroke is the country’s third largest killer. It is also the single largest cause of adult disability, It seems possible to have pretty widespread local stroke a point made by my hon. Friend the Member for units that will deal with all forms of stroke, with a Buckingham (John Bercow) at the beginning of the number of them being able to give thrombolysis as well. debate. We all have constituents who have been affected At this point, I must refer to the National Institute for and I suspect that most of us may have experienced a Health and Clinical Excellence’s technology appraisal, stroke within our own families, as I did recently. Yet for which is mandatory. It states: too long, strokes have been the poor relation in the “The Committee was aware that in the UK, physicians with NHS, so I welcome the long overdue national stroke experience in stroke care are not always the same as those specialised strategy of 2007, which finally prioritised stroke care in neurological care. The Committee concluded that alteplase”— for health and social care providers. Our response needs the clot-buster— to be commensurate with the sheer size of the problem. “should be used by a physician trained and experienced in the The strategy has undoubtedly brought progress, but management of acute stroke and only in centres with facilities that enable it to be used in full accordance with its marketing we must not stand still on the issue. Not enough patients authorisation.” are receiving the treatment and care that they need quickly enough and too many are subject to a dangerous That sets quite a high target for the stroke units that will postcode lottery. Inequalities in access to stroke units be providing that therapy, but it is something that we and long-term care all too often mean that where people should aim for. We have already heard that the time live can dramatically affect the length of recovery from limit for administering that treatment is exactly three a stroke—or even whether they recover at all. hours. For a patient to get to a unit, have the scan and receive the treatment within three hours is enormously If we want to improve stroke services, we must focus demanding. That is why I hope that, as well as there essentially on three elements: first, saving lives in hospital; being networks, some of the local units will also be able secondly, reducing disabilities and long-term damage; to provide thrombolysis, at least part of the time. and, thirdly, preventing strokes altogether. Speed is of Speaking from an out-of-London perspective, I believe the essence with a stroke. A scan and early treatment that transport is also crucial. If the major stroke centres within the first three hours can, as we have heard, make are to be located only in a few places, we are going to the difference between complete recovery, a lifelong need to use the air ambulance service much more than disability or even life at all. For example, a brain scan we do at the moment. That raises the question of when will crucially confirm the diagnosis of someone admitted the Government are going to consider making some to hospital. For people with ischaemic strokes, swift sort of contribution to running air ambulances. thrombolysis or treatment with clot-busting drugs within three hours will significantly reduce the chances of I hope that the local stroke units will become widespread, dying, yet last year, only 0.8 per cent. of patients received but I must point out the necessity of their each having a thrombolysis. complete team. They will need not only doctors and nurses but, as has been pointed out many times, speech I know that having a specialist stroke unit can do therapists. Unless things have changed in the past few much to improve survival rates and recovery times for months, speech therapists are almost as rare as hens’ stroke patients. Commendably, early access to a stroke teeth. The units will also need physiotherapists and unit has improved significantly since 2006. However, in occupational therapists, but they, too, are shortage 2008, one quarter of patients were still not being offered specialties. Rehabilitation is essential for the long-term this service—a service that I know, through personal care of people with strokes when one has not been able experience, really can make a difference. As our population to prevent the completion of the stroke. ages, the demand for these specialist units can only Finally, the Next Stage review recognises the risk that grow, so we must ensure that we can cope. reconfiguration can make services fall down. The Under- Having swift and high-quality stroke services from Secretary of State in the House of Lords has made it day one makes sense for our country’s financial health, clear that we must never reconfigure until alternatives too. Caring for stroke patients currently costs the UK are in place, otherwise there will be an untenable gap. about £7 billion each year because of the long-term implications of a stroke and the detrimental effects of 3.38 pm delays in treatment. Given that about a third of stroke survivors will be left with a moderate to severe disability, Mr. Brooks Newmark (Braintree) (Con): I am delighted long-term social care is often a necessity, not a luxury. to follow the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Dr. Taylor). However, the Stroke Association says that rehabilitation I want to begin my speech on a personal note. My and long-term care in the community is one of the father-in-law, Sir John Keegan, had a stroke four weeks weakest elements of a stroke survivor’s pathway. Only ago. He survived due to the swift response of his local around half of those who have experienced a stroke ambulance service and the immediate care that he received receive the necessary rehabilitation in the first six months at Salisbury district hospital in the critical first three following discharge from hospital, which falls to a fifth hours following his stroke. I want to thank the doctors in the following six months. 325 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 326

The transition from hospital back to the community centres on time for patients. The hon. Gentleman made can also be extremely difficult. Not only do about a a crucial point about the need for triage efficiency at A third of stroke survivors have communication difficulties— and E centres to deal with people as soon as they come including, as highlighted in the Stroke Association’s in. recent “Lost without Words” campaign, aphasia and The hon. Gentleman also made a good point about speech impacts—but many experience a loss of confidence acute services taking advantage of investment in and independence as they struggle to regain their basic telecommunication links—for instance, to enable people capabilities and rebuild their lives. who have reported there to get treatment without having I am pleased that as part of the national stroke to go off to the hyper-acute centre. That needs improvement, strategy, every local authority now receives a ring-fenced and the expertise needs to be in local hospitals. grant of around £100,000 a year for stroke services. In north-east London, another plan being considered However, I believe that the scheme is currently intended includes the option of a reduction in beds. That would for only three years, so just as services are really starting be wrong for stroke care, because the beds are needed to make a difference, I fear they may be shut down for for rehabilitation of patients. In a proper stroke care lack of long-term financial support. model, there is no case for a reduction in beds. Finally, it is not enough to just to treat the symptom Improved rehab and community stroke care provision, of the problem, as its cause is also important. We can which remain weak, are needed. We have talked about reduce the likelihood of a stroke through preventive NHS provision for stroke patients being patchy, but that work on high blood pressure, irregular heartbeats and in local authorities is even patchier: some are good; smoking, for example. That alone could prevent thousands others are not, or they set high criteria to be met before of strokes each year, saving not only many families from giving help. A good look at what local authorities do is having to watch a loved one suffer, but millions of necessary, and they should be helped to provide such pounds each year in care costs. For progress on stroke support in conjunction with the local NHS. services, we must look carefully at three elements: the Only half of people get rehab in the first six months urgency of immediate health care; the long-term nature after having a stroke, which is too low a figure. As has of recovery; and the opportunity to prevent strokes in been mentioned, the figure falls to a fifth in the next six future. Only if we can weave those into a more seamless months, which is not satisfactory. Only a third of patients approach, applied evenly regardless of where the patient in England benefit from early discharge support, which lives, can we say that we are doing the best for the enables them to be rehabilitated in their own homes. thousands of stroke sufferers each and every year. That position needs to be improved substantially. I think I am right in saying that according to figures 3.45 pm provided by the Stroke Association, only 12 per cent. of people who experience communication difficulties following Harry Cohen (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): I appreciate a stroke are given speech therapy, and I believe that only being given a few minutes to contribute to the debate, 6 per cent. of people in London receive such support. especially as I missed the opening speeches, for which I Much more needs to be done in that regard. apologise to those on the Front Benches. My last point about rehab and community stroke I praise the Government for the improvement that care concerns people who suffer transient ischaemic they have tried to make in stroke care. The service in the attacks. Because of the fear that they will go on to suffer NHS has been patchy and unsatisfactory for too long, a major stroke, those people need to be seen within 24 and that is not what is needed in a modern health hours, but I understand that at present only 45 per cent. service. The national stroke strategy and the efforts in of them are seen within that time. It has been estimated relation to hyper-acute centres are moving it in the right that if the figure were 100 per cent., which is the direction. A consultation process has taken place in Government’s target under the national stroke strategy, London, including my area of north-east London. As the number of people subsequently suffering full strokes part of that consultation, I have written to express my would fall by as much as 80 per cent. dissatisfaction about the way in which Whipps Cross hospital, in my constituency, was treated. It had a good There are many issues surrounding hyper-acute centres, case for being a hyper-acute centre—better than that for acute centres and TIA services in the more local hospitals. Queen’s hospital and the Royal London, which were the While the Government are pushing ahead with the ones chosen. The decision has been made on the basis centres and trying to improve the service, they must not of having two locations, and Whipps Cross has missed lose sight of local provision, which I believe can play a out unfairly in that regard. very important role. By that I mean provision either by local hospitals or by local authorities in conjunction A lot of money will be needed to bring Queen’s and with the NHS. A great deal of credit is due to the the Royal London up to a decent standard, and it is Government, but there is much more to be done, and important that local hospitals such as Whipps Cross are they should not forget that local role. not starved of moneys to run a good acute and TIA service. As money is pumped into the chosen centres, that is a risk. The Minister and NHS London must take 3.52 pm on board the point that good local provision of acute Ann Keen: I thank all Members who have contributed and TIA services is still needed. to this important debate. I am particularly grateful for In my intervention on the hon. Member for Westbury the way in which they congratulated the Government. (Dr. Murrison), I made a point about ambulance services. Of course we all recognise that there is more to be done, Further improvements are needed to enable ambulance but by bringing us together the debate has demonstrated services to act promptly, and perhaps we need to look at that consensus across the House is a vital ingredient if traffic arrangements to ensure that ambulances get to we are to make progress on an issue as important as 327 Stroke Services3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services 328

[Ann Keen] used to telephone-triage patients has recently been updated and is being rolled out across ambulance trusts. The stroke. I acknowledge again the important work of the new version includes questions based on the face, arm, all-party parliamentary group on stroke and the speech test for stroke. Any patients with positive FAST contribution that it has made. symptoms will get a category A response, with a target to reach them within eight minutes. We are tackling all the work that needs to be done We have heard many comments, including comments through the stroke improvement programme and the based on personal experience from the hon. Member stroke care networks that it set up. The strategy is a for Braintree (Mr. Newmark). I wish the family well. I 10-year plan, and there are no simplistic quick fixes to am sure all of us would want to do the same. bring about the improvements that we want to see. We are the first to acknowledge that there is a long way to My hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall (Kate go. Hoey) again pointed out with regard to the consultation the important work that takes place at St. Thomas’s and In the short time available to me I shall respond to as at Guy’s. I also commend St. Thomas’s hospital, which many as possible of the points that have been raised, Members consider to be their local hospital. The work but if, as is likely, I fail to respond to all of them, I shall that is done by Dr. Holmes and his team is excellent. of course write to Members and ensure that all their The hon. Member for Leeds, North-West (Greg points have been properly addressed. Mulholland) looked in particular at BME groups and how checks are being made. Efforts are being made to My hon. Friend the Member for Crawley (Laura target that population in particular so that they go for Moffatt) shared her experience with us, telling us how those all-important health checks. Most Members have stroke patients had been treated in the past. Let us been gracious enough to say that that is good work. We ensure that it definitely is the past. I, too, acknowledge are continuing down that line. the work done by David Davis with the South East Coast ambulance service: it is well known and recognised Points have been raised by Members covering many in the Department. situations. Out-of-hours services were again raised by the hon. Member for Westbury. Imaging was mentioned, London Members in particular, including my hon. as was the importance of out-of-hours work and seven- Friends the Members for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) and day-a-week, 24-hour imaging. It is critical that that for Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s Bush (Mr. Slaughter), happens. We are looking at the development of the have raised the scare stories that have been put about professions and the training that will be required to concerning closures that will not, in fact, take place, for achieve that. Incorporating telemedicine in the way the instance at Barnet, Finchley and Charing Cross. I am hon. Gentleman mentioned is important. Many areas more than familiar with that debate. No wonder the are starting to do that. local community is engaged in the debate over Charing It is critical, as we continue with the 10-year strategy, Cross. As long ago as 1992, when the then Conservative that stroke is a No. 1 priority for the NHS, providing Government introduced the internal market, it was said extra funding and establishing the local stroke networks. that the market would decide whether Charing Cross or We are firmly aiming at a revolution in stroke services Hammersmith would stay open. There is no closure of over the next few years, which I believe we will see. The Charing Cross; there will be no closure of Charing House will work together on that important issue. Members Cross. Imperial college is making sure that all the will be aware that it is important that all the matters services that are coming from the Imperial College that have been raised are addressed, but the consultation, Healthcare NHS Trust are of the highest possible standard, the reconfiguration and the specialist units will continue. but I note what has been said about the consultation, I thank Members for their contributions to the debate which ended on 8 May. Announcements are due on today. 20 July, I believe. If the process still needs to be looked Question put and agreed to. and monitored in any way, I know that Members will make their views known to me. I will do my best to Resolved, ensure that NHS London is aware of the debate and That this House has considered the matter of stroke services. how that has progressed. 3.59 pm The hon. Member for Westbury (Dr. Murrison) asked about the category for stroke. I have some information Sitting suspended (Standing Order No. 20). to share, but our discussions will continue. The software 329 3 JUNE 2009 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 330

Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) both those cases we could conclude that the current arrangements are ineffective and make it worth while Second Reading for illegal street traders to carry on their activities because they are safe in the knowledge that any sanctions Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Before I are unlikely to result in any financial deterrent. call the right hon. Member for Leeds, West (John Battle), I wish to inform Members that I believe that it will be In a similar case before the courts, proceedings were for the convenience of the House if we debate the Leeds taken against an illegal flower seller who had seriously City Council Bill, the Nottingham City Council Bill undermined the business of others in the city. It is and the Reading Borough Council Bill together. I also therefore clear that businesses can be undermined by wish to remind Members of the rulings I have given on such illegal activities. Those examples illustrate that the previous occasions when this substantive matter has Leeds has an enforcement problem in relation to illegal been before the House. As three Bills that bear a street traders. considerable likeness to those before the House today have gone through, it seems to me to be in our best Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): As always, the right interests to make progress in the determination of the hon. Gentleman is a powerful advocate for Leeds. I House’s view on the Bills before us today so that there represent the neighbouring district of Bradford and in can, more or less, be parity of treatment in later stages particular Shipley, and I have a concern. If this is such a of proceedings, as I understand that some of the promoters big problem in Leeds and is to be dealt with at a Leeds of the Bills may wish to propose detailed amendments if level, what reassurance can be given that the problem the House grants these Bills a Committee stage. will not simply move across the boundary to Shipley or the wider Bradford district? Would it not be better to tackle this problem from a national perspective, rather 4.1 pm than looking after the interests of Leeds alone? John Battle (Leeds, West) (Lab): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. John Battle: I shall simply make two points to the hon. Gentleman. First, the Durham report suggests This Bill follows on from other Bills that have already that there could be local, rather than national, solutions been debated at length. We have discussed the purposes to this problem. We take that on board, and I respect of the Bills and the definitions of pedlars and street the Durham report. Secondly, I walk regularly from my traders, and I do not intend to rehearse those arguments—I constituency to his, which is 12 miles along the Leeds abide by your ruling, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The hon. and Liverpool canal. One has to go through my Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope) cannot be with constituency and a few others to get to his, so if the us today as, sadly, he is unwell; we wish him well. He problem were to migrate out of the city centre, it would said in our last deliberations: come into my neighbourhood first. I have no intention “There is much in these Bills that is not controversial, is of of seeing the problem simply migrate, and I hope he common interest, and will be supported by Members in all parts would accept that reassurance. of the House.”—[Official Report, 21 April 2009; Vol. 491, c. 197.] I hope we can proceed in that spirit this afternoon. The amendment to be proposed by Leeds takes on board the Durham research published earlier this year On the Leeds Bill, the problems the city faces in these that suggests that there is no evidence to support the matters are similar to those faced by other cities with removal of the pedlars’ exemption from the national strong, dynamic centres: the difficulties of enforcing street trading regime. This proposal aims simply to get a street-trading legislation against people who are, effectively, grip on the streets in the centre and those who, as it acting as street traders but under the guise of pedlars. were, pretend that they are engaged in street trading These people cause great resentment among licensed when they are really engaged in peddling—the amendment street traders, who pay significant sums for their licences, will help to achieve that. I hope that Members on both and among retailers, who pay rent and rates. Following sides of this House will give this modest Bill a fair wind on from the publication of the Durham university and that the amendment might help others too. Let us report and, not least, taking into account the long get this Bill through its Second Reading and into deliberations in this House, Leeds city council suggests Committee. Let us iron out the details and let us give an amendment that will be formally made in Committee the councils the enforcement help that they need, because if its Bill proceeds today, as I hope it will. The amendment that is the crucial issue at this stage. would enable pedlars to continue to trade in most areas of the city as long as they do not use stalls or other 4.6 pm physical means of support; that is subject to a clear definition. That is a significant, practical and workable Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): First, may I make an concession as a result of this House’s deliberations and apology on behalf of my hon. Friend the Member for comments made in the other place. Christchurch (Mr. Chope), who is unwell? He has a I should like to refer to the results of two court cases detached retina, which has been incredibly painful. I against illegal street traders in the city of Leeds that know that he was very keen to be here to continue came before magistrates on 15 May this year as examples debating these matters, but unfortunately he is not able that drive home why Leeds needs this Bill. The first to attend. I can report that he is well on the way to offender did not attend the court and the case was recovery. Although it will not be much longer before he proved. He was fined just £50, with £350 costs. The is back in the House, I am sure that we will all miss him second offender attended the court and pleaded guilty in this particular debate. to six counts of illegal street trading, but due to outstanding I accept the ruling that you made at the start, Mr. Deputy fines and costs for other matters he was given a conditional Speaker, and my intention is not to delay the House discharge for one year and no order for costs. From unduly, but it is important to go through some of the 331 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order)3 JUNE 2009 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 332

[Philip Davies] page 70, if anybody has a copy of the report—that there should be a heavy burden of proof attached to those arguments. It would be fair to begin by praising the seeking private legislation people in Leeds and Reading, who have shown a great “to establish genuine evidence of a local problem insurmountable desire to compromise, as the right hon. Member for through the use of existing powers.” Leeds, West (John Battle) said. They have looked at the My contention is that no such case has been made for issue, listened to the debate as the Bills have gone any of these cities, as far as I am aware. through the House and agreed to address some of the legitimate concerns raised by my hon. Friend the Member Mr. Fabian Hamilton (Leeds, North-East) (Lab): My for Christchurch. I therefore see no reason why the Bills right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, West (John that relate specifically to Leeds and Reading should not Battle) quoted two recent court cases from 15 May, be agreed to fairly readily. which, in the case of Leeds, prove that the sanctions against such street traders are simply not tough enough. Martin Salter (Reading, West) (Lab): I genuinely The results of those cases prove that those sanctions act thank the hon. Gentleman for reaching out across the as no deterrent to such individuals. Has the hon. Gentleman House. Does he acknowledge that, just as Labour Members been to the centre of Leeds on a busy Saturday, or even are not seeking to restrict unduly the legitimate work of during the week, and seen some of the illegal street legal pedlars, we are deeply concerned about people trading that is going on? He would realise, then, that using our ancient pedlar procedure as a flag of convenience this is not a solution looking for a problem but very to undermine legitimate traders who pay hard cash for much a problem that needs this solution. their market stalls? Philip Davies: I take the hon. Gentleman’s point, but Philip Davies: I appreciate the points made by the are one or two examples sufficient to make us go hon. Gentleman, who is, again, a powerful advocate for through the whole process of a new Act of Parliament his town. We may disagree on the extent of the problem. and to justify the time that is being taken up? In answer I still have a concern that this is a solution looking for a to his question, I have regularly visited the centre of problem; I am not sure that there is a massive problem. Leeds. In fact, in the eight years before I entered Parliament In the spirit of co-operation, I shall certainly praise the I worked in the centre of Leeds for Asda. I am well approach that Reading has taken in finding a sensible aware of the pros and cons of Leeds city centre, but I compromise that not only suits its needs, but protects am not entirely sure that in the haste to get the Bills the legitimate rights of pedlars. Therefore, I see no passed we have heard a coherent case about the problems reason why the Bills relating to Leeds and Reading encountered. should not be readily agreed. The Durham university report shows that the test for The case is slightly different as regards Nottingham. the legislation should be quite high. It appears to me, at My understanding—the hon. Member for Nottingham, the moment, that we are being asked to support the East (Mr. Heppell) may well be able to help here—is Bills on the basis of rather limited information. It that Nottingham has not been quite as keen as Leeds or would help if we had some firm evidence of the problems. Reading to co-operate and recognise some of the legitimate I welcome the specific examples relating to Leeds that concerns raised, particularly those discussed in previous the right hon. Member for Leeds, West cited and I hope debates by my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch. that we will hear the same points made about Reading I hope that before we finally consider whether to divide and, in particular, about Nottingham. Given Nottingham’s on the Bills, the hon. Member for Nottingham, East reluctance to compromise at all, above all else the might offer some reassurance that Nottingham will go council must demonstrate that it has a specific problem down a similar line to Leeds and Reading and will look that cannot be dealt with under existing powers. So to incorporate some of the compromises that those where is that evidence? Paragraph 211 on page 70 of the cities have adopted. Durham university report states that those who took It is important to consider, albeit briefly, some new part in its public survey points that have emerged from the report published by “found genuine pedlars to be inoffensive and generally found the university of Durham, which was not available to their interactions with pedlars to be a positive experience.” the House when we previously debated these matters. The report does not seem to be stating that there is a As the House will know, in paragraph 4 of a statement great case for the Bills; it seems to be saying something made by the promoters of the Bills they state: rather different. It goes on to say that there is “The arguments in favour of the Bills have been rehearsed at “little sense in withdrawing the livelihood of such inoffensive and length in the debates on the Manchester, Bournemouth and well-meaning traders”, Canterbury Bills, and they apply equally to Leeds, Nottingham and Reading.” and that the people surveyed In paragraph 5, they go on to quote the report from “greatly preferred pedlars to operate in the street, rather than Durham university: door-to-door.” “Local authorities hoping to adopt legislation—whether a I am not entirely sure whether the Durham university Private Act or the adoption of powers granted under the current report makes the case for the promoters of the Bills, as Private Members Bill, if it becomes law—should provide a strong they try to indicate in their statement. The report concluded case to justify their adoption.” that The promoters use that statement to argue against any “restricting pedlars to door-to-door trading only would lead to a further delay or debate about these matters, but the severe restriction on their livelihood.” Durham university report, published since those Second Paragraph 6 of the statement from the promoters of Reading debates, makes it clear—in paragraph 212, the Bills says that 333 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order)3 JUNE 2009 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 334

“evidence of the problems that the Bills seek to address will be is much nearer the centre of Leeds than mine is. If provided to the committees of both Houses, and those committees anyone were to move from Leeds to Shipley, they would will be able to test the case for the Bills in detail, to meet the certainly go through his patch. They may well not even recommendation in the Durham report.” come to Shipley, but go straight to Bradford or somewhere That statement misunderstands the fact that it is imperative, else. However, Members who represent neighbouring before approval be given, in principle, to the restriction areas should be concerned. of rights of pedlars on Second Reading, that there On page 32 of the report, paragraph 94 deals with the should be number of complaints that have been made and the “genuine evidence of a local problem insurmountable through the number of prosecutions that have taken place. The use of existing powers”, report examines the particularly high rate of guilty as the Durham university report said. verdicts in Derbyshire and Kent under the terms of the Pedlars Act and states: I am not a big fan of the idea that we should say, “In the latter case this could be the result…of an influx of “Let’s agree to anything on Second Reading, because all pedlars from London, where the application of the London Local matters can be decided, one way or the other, in Committee. Authorities Act 2004 may have driven them out of the capital.” If we think that we have got it wrong, we can change So the Durham university report clearly makes the things then. We can always vote against the measure on point that by restricting the rights of pedlars in specific Third Reading.” That seems rather a strange approach centres, there is a good chance that they will move to to parliamentary scrutiny and parliamentary legislation, other parts of the country. because on that basis, presumably no one would ever vote against the Second Reading of anything. We might It seems perverse for us as a national Parliament to say, “We can deal with all the issues in Committee,” but say it is all right to restrict pedlars in particular cities, that is not sufficient reason to support the Bills on but we are happy for them to move on to other cities Second Reading. nearby. That is a bizarre and divisive approach for a national Parliament to take. I know the point has been Nottingham is, it seems, the least keen to compromise. made before, so in line with Mr. Deputy Speaker’s If there is such a serious problem in Nottingham that ruling, I shall not go over it, but that paragraph of the the city not only needs the Nottingham City Council report is important for people living in areas neighbouring Bill to be agreed to, but is not even prepared to compromise the cities under discussion. We should consider whether on it, presumably it should not be difficult to provide there is a national problem and whether we need national some cogent evidence and some good examples of where legislation, rather than adopting a piecemeal approach the problem is. However, the only evidence that the which may suit the centre of Leeds, Nottingham or House has had drawn to its attention is on page 34 of Reading, but gives no thought to cities and towns the Durham university report, which shows that in nearby. 2006, in the whole of the Nottinghamshire police force When we come to decide these matters, potentially in area, only two defendants were found guilty of offences a vote, I see no reason why the Bills that relate to Leeds under the Pedlars Act 1871. In 2005, the number was and Reading should not progress to Committee, even seven, and in 2004 it was four. I would submit that that though we do not yet have the results of the Government’s does not indicate that there is an issue of such gravity consultation. Those cities are keen to compromise, and and importance that the House should spend, or perhaps in that spirit we should not unduly delay the progress of waste, time and money considering legislation to cover those Bills. I hope they will be able to proceed without Nottingham specifically. the need for a Division. All the evidence from the report, which the Government However, the case for Nottingham has not been commissioned, suggests that there is not really much of made. The Durham university report does not show a problem in Nottingham. Perhaps the promoters of that there is a particular problem in Nottingham, as the Bills—again, I look particularly to the promoters of opposed to any other part of the country. If the case is the Nottingham City Council Bill—can let us have the not made properly, the House should decide that that details of whether the offences identified in the report Bill does not deserve a Second Reading today. took place in the city of Nottingham, or a different part of the Nottinghamshire police force area. That is not entirely clear from the information that we have. Perhaps 4.23 pm they can also tell us what the nature of the offences was, Mr. John Heppell (Nottingham, East) (Lab): I shall so that we can have a basis on which to decide whether be brief, as I recognise that the subject has been debated we need legislation for Nottingham. I genuinely think for almost a year. For anyone to pretend now that we that the case has not been made. I have attended all the have not heard all the arguments and that we need to Second Reading debates that we have had on such Bills, produce details is nonsense. I do not need to produce and I have heard little from those who support the Bills any evidence of what is happening in Nottingham in about why the Bills are so good. The right hon. Member order to make a decision. for Leeds, West probably made the best case that I have Unlike the hon. Members for Shipley (Philip Davies) heard at such a Second Reading, even though his speech and for Christchurch (Mr. Chope), I live in Nottingham was incredibly brief. We need people to put forward a and I pass the streets where the problem occurs at least case before the House accepts it; it should not accept once a week. I can point to a place less than 100 yd from the proposals willy-nilly without even challenging whether my office where illegal street pedlars are operating. they are necessary. They cause a fair amount of disruption in a pedestrianised I come back to the point that I made in my intervention area for shoppers passing through. Also, they are, in on the right hon. Gentleman. I represent a seat neighbouring effect, competition—I consider it illegal competition—for Leeds, and I absolutely understand that his constituency those people who go through the proper procedures and 335 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order)3 JUNE 2009 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 336

[Mr. John Heppell] My hon. Friend has led the opposition to an array of Bills that would otherwise seemingly have gone through get themselves licensed as street traders. The legislation without proper scrutiny. One of his main concerns has is needed and it is needed now. We are not in search of a been the impact of the legislation on legitimate problem; the problem exists. entrepreneurial pedlars going about their genuine business, I recognise—[Interruption.] There is plenty of evidence. and he has engaged with local authorities to try to reach I can show the hon. Member for Shipley photographs agreements and ensure that the livelihoods of those and information from the police. I accept that it is a pedlars are not curtailed unnecessarily. I can report that minor problem and that it is not big crime, but to deal he, as my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip with it requires that we spend an awful lot of resources, Davies) said, has negotiated for some time and with time and ratepayers’ money on trying to take people to some success with Leeds city council and Reading borough court. There are so few prosecutions because the existing council on the narrow issue of pedlars. Both councils legislation does not allow us to take them to court. I do are to be highly commended for their sensible and not understand why the hon. Gentleman cannot get extremely conciliatory approach towards finding common that through his head. ground and an acceptable solution for all sides. As my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley said, that is very Philip Davies: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? much at odds with the attitude of Nottingham city council. Mr. Heppell: No, I will not. The hon. Gentleman has My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch was had a year to ask us to give way. recently provided with an amended version of clause 5, which Leeds city council and Reading borough council I know that you would rule me out of order, Mr. Deputy have proposed for consideration in Committee in relation Speaker, if I started talking about amendments that to pedlars. The amendment is testament to my hon. were not on the Order Paper, so I shall discuss the Bill Friend’s ongoing and unwavering support for that small as it exists. However, I do not see a need to compromise but nevertheless very important group of entrepreneurs. with the hon. Member for Christchurch or the hon. Member for Shipley and go against the wishes of the On behalf of my hon. Friend, and for the purposes of people of Nottingham and, I suspect, the majority of this debate, I should like to read into the record the the House. I find it strange that people who, for a year, clause, as amended, which would form the new clause 5. have tried to wreck the Bill—there is no other way to Its sub-paragraph 2A states: put it—should now have some benevolent amendments “Trading is carried on in accordance with this sub-paragraph to suggest. I have a suspicion that the amendments are if— intended to give them the opportunity to think of other (a) It is carried out only by means of visits from house to ways of wrecking the Bill in the future, so I and the city house; or and people of Nottingham are not willing to compromise (b) the following applies— with people from outside Nottingham. It is not their (i) all items used for any purpose connected with the trading problem. The Bill is for local people and local are carried, without any other means of support, by the holder of representatives, who should know far better than anyone the certificate during the time in which the trading takes place; down here, and probably even far better than I do, what and is required for Nottingham. (ii) the trading is not carried out in a prohibited street; and When the time comes, I shall move the Bill, and I (iii) the trading does not include the trading of tickets.” hope that the House supports it. We have had a year’s delay, which has been a great disadvantage to the people In the light of that major concession, my hon. Friend of Nottingham and it has created a great deal of expense. has asked me to express his gratitude to Leeds city I hope that that is over now. council and Reading borough council for working towards a satisfactory solution. He was, however, of the understanding that sub-paragraph 2A(b)(ii), relating to 4.27 pm trading in a prohibited street, would not be included in Mr. Rob Wilson (Reading, East) (Con): I am extremely the amendment. I am sure that that will require explanation, grateful for the opportunity finally to contribute to the or removal, in Committee. However, in the spirit of the Reading Borough Council Bill debate. Before I do that, negotiations, I should say that the inclusion of that I shall comment briefly on the Leeds City Council Bill, provision should not hold up matters today; it would be because my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch a great shame if we held up the Reading Borough (Mr. Chope) is unable to attend today’s debate, as Council Bill or the Leeds City Council Bill today or others have said, and I join them in wishing him a later in the process. speedy recovery. It is worth mentioning, however, that the Nottingham My hon. Friend has been extremely assiduous in his City Council Bill could be opposed today, as has been attendance at these debates and central to ensuring that said. That is mainly due to the council’s failure to the Bills have not gone through on the nod. He has engage in negotiation and proper debate. It is a great spoken at length, demonstrating a great knowledge and shame that Nottingham should be singled out in this understanding of the issue, and he has supported the way, but I hope that the council will learn lessons from underdog, as the pedlar can be assumed to be in this how Leeds city council and Reading borough council case. Although my hon. Friend’s presence is missed have behaved. today, at least by some of us, I hope to be able to further I shall now set out directly my points about Reading. his hard work and to put on the record the current Some of my hon. Friends have been extremely exercised position regarding Leeds city council, before I move on by the Bills, and with good reason. I have listened to Reading. carefully to all the arguments about the other Bills; I 337 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order)3 JUNE 2009 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 338 think that I have attended all the debates apart from the year paid by a pedlar. One can therefore understand his revival debate, so I feel that I have a good grasp of what concern about competition. His family are providing has gone on. It is a relief finally to get to the Reading local jobs and income for Reading, and they also run a Borough Council Bill after all those hours of discussion. local shop, while the pedlars clearly do not do that. I was not consulted by Reading borough council in The main purpose of the Bill is to extend the scope of advance of its developing the Bill. The first that I knew the council in regulating the provision of services on the of it was when I was lobbied by a council officer, not street, as well as touting. However, extending the council’s long before the matter arrived in this House. That is a powers to regulate almost automatically makes me feel little worrying and slightly strange; I suppose that it is uneasy. I have always been of the view that less is more. partly due to Reading’s consultation process not being The natural inclination of Governments local and national as good as it should be. is to do more, to interfere more, and to involve themselves to a greater degree. That involvement usually makes Martin Salter: I do not wish to break this wonderful matters worse rather than better, so it is rarely the right spirit of harmony that we are developing across the solution. Floor of the House. However, does the hon. Gentleman It is fair to say that in the past touting has been an not recognise that he is talking utter hogwash? I hope important issue in Reading owing to the enormous that that is in order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. If the hon. numbers of young people arriving every year for the Gentleman had not pulled out of the joint liaison Reading festival, which takes place over the August meetings that he and I used to hold regularly with bank holiday. I would thoroughly recommend it to hon. Reading borough council, he would have been as consulted, Members if they wish to visit Reading at that time. I as I was. believe that we have previously hosted the former Prime Minister’s favourite group, the Foo Fighters, and the Mr. Wilson: I am not sure what the hon. Gentleman current Prime Minister’s favourite group, the Arctic is talking about; as and when a matter comes up, I meet Monkeys. I use the word “favourite” in inverted commas, Reading borough council officers regularly. It is a little of course, because that information was briefed by disingenuous of the hon. Gentleman to break the consensus Damian McBride, so one cannot tell what is true and of the afternoon just because I choose to handle my what is not. local constituency matters in a way that is appropriate for me. That does not stop him from handling his Martin Salter rose— constituency matters through joint liaison meetings with the council if he wishes. Mr. Wilson: If you are going to say something sensible, Neither side has made a completely open-and-shut I will let you get up—go on. case for or against the proposed changes, so I would like to take a little time to go through a few of the issues Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I remind the hon. Gentleman about Reading. In that way, at least they will be on the of his language. He certainly should not be addressing record and have what I would regard as a decent airing. the hon. Member for Reading, West (Martin Salter) in From the previous debates on Bournemouth, Canterbury, those terms, let alone the Chair. Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham and so forth, we know that the control of street trading—mainly in relation to pedlars—comes under schedule 4 of the Local Government Martin Salter: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1982. certainly do not guarantee to say anything sensible, but I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. Like the other Bills, although bearing in mind the fact that they are not all exactly the same, the Reading Would the hon. Gentleman like to remind the House Borough Council Bill would change the existing legislation that in the dark and dismal days of 1983 and 1984, it that gives licences to pedlars to trade legally using a was a Conservative council in Reading that axed the licence paid for by a £12.50 fee. Councils currently Reading rock festival? It ill behoves him to be praying it receive no business rates or licence fees from pedlars. In in aid now. most local authority areas, the annual street trading fee is between £500 and £800, whereas pedlars continue to Mr. Wilson: I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman pay the much smaller fee of £12.50. It has been argued wishes to go back into ancient history. I am sure we strongly, and with reasonable justification, that that could talk about lots of things from those times. As the represents an undercutting of other traders and is therefore current leadership of the borough council is about to unfair competition. become ancient history, perhaps in a few years we will During one of my many walkabouts in Reading town revisit that as well. centre last year, I had the opportunity to speak to several local traders. One of them, Salim, expressed his Philip Davies: My hon. Friend talks about the problem annoyance that pedlars were able to sell their merchandise that Reading has with ticket touting. I do not know without paying the same fees that he paid, and also whether he has read the reports by the Culture, Media could bypass the local authority bureaucracy. Pedlars, and Sport Committee and the Office of Fair Trading on by the nature of their occupation, are transient salespeople, ticket touting, which show that it is beneficial to the and it is fair to argue that they contribute very little to consumer. Is he saying that there is an objection to the ongoing success of the local economy, unlike their ticket touting, which could benefit Reading’s residents registered street trader counterparts. Salim argued to by giving them an opportunity to go to something that me that this amounted to unfair competition. He told they could not have gone to otherwise or to sell a ticket me that he was paying several thousand pounds a year at a profit? Why is ticket touting a problem for residents for his pitch in the town centre as against the £12.50 per in Reading? Is it not a benefit to them? 339 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order)3 JUNE 2009 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 340

Mr. Wilson: I have not read the whole report, but I an anomaly, which needs further explanation and have read parts of it. My hon. Friend makes an interesting probably further consultation and consideration before point, and if he bears with me I shall go through the the Bill completes its passage. points about ticket touting, and in particular the problems To return to pedlars, Reading borough council that the police say it causes. argues that the small annual licence fee that they pay is I have been told that the activity of touts is of not a reasonable sum in comparison with the sizeable significant concern to the local authority, the local annual rates paid by shopkeepers and permanent street police and the Reading festival organisers alike. Richard traders. As I have said, that is a fair argument. A Bennett, my local basic command unit commander, pedlar’s licence can be obtained virtually anywhere in informed me during my consultation process on the Bill the country by anyone claiming to have a good that the police have greatly limited powers in respect of character. Given the outdated nature of the original illegal touting, but that the removal of such activity legislation, there seems to be significant room for would reduce the risk to Reading festival-goers of buying people who are less than genuine to obtain a certificate forgeries, and also reduce the trade in stolen tickets. He from the police. The police have argued to me that they said the following—it is a fairly lengthy quotation, but I do not have the time or inclination to check a person’s wish to put it on the record: good character thoroughly, and that they can check “The individuals involved in touting include both legitimate only their criminal record. The system therefore has its traders and others who are involved in various forms of criminality. limitations. The police have very limited powers in respect of touting per se, When I talked to a local pedlar, she had no idea that but the removal of this type of activity would reduce the risk to Festival goers of buying forgeries and would reduce the trade in traditional street traders paid so much more than she stolen tickets and wrist bands. There is Police activity in respect of did to trade on Broad street in Reading town centre. She both of these and we respond to the reports of thefts and suggested a change in the system whereby pedlars should forgeries accordingly but the existence of widespread touting be made to contribute more and street traders made to provides a cover for the actions of criminals and we are responding pay less for their licences so that a sort of equilibrium to offences that have been committed rather than preventing them was reached. Although that is an honourable response, from happening in the first place.” we were filming her at the time for a YouTube video on The principle of good, proactive, preventive policing is my website. I am not sure whether all the pedlars in the something that we should all support. town centre agree with that point of view. It is important not to vilify pedlars as glorified Del Philip Davies: That is all very well, and I am delighted Boys, as some have done. Anyetta, the pedlar whom I that my hon. Friend is making a far better case for met, was pleasant and helpful. She explained that she Reading than anyone has even tried to make for was simply trying to find ways in which to pay off her Nottingham, but does he not accept that selling stolen student loan, and peddling was only one of several jobs or forged tickets is a criminal offence in itself and does in which she was involved. It is an age-old, honourable not need any additional legislation? It is fraud, and it is business for those who choose to take it up. It is far theft. That is completely different from the selling on of from easy, but it is easy to criticise and castigate those legitimate tickets. whodoit. I also had the opportunity to speak to a shopper in Mr. Wilson: Yes, I accept that there is a difference Reading town centre, who had returned for the second between those two things, but I wish to lay out my week running to buy the same item from a local pedlar. broad case, after which I shall be happy to give way When asked whether Broad street would be better off again, if my hon. Friend wishes to intervene. without such traders, he simply answered, “If you’re walking down the high street and you see something There is an absurdity in Reading borough council’s you like, you make a choice.” He implied that if the position. As I understand it, it means that touting pedlars’ merchandise is not of sufficient quality, could be an offence in a designated part of Reading in discerning shoppers will vote with their feet and not my constituency, but not in Woodley or Earley, which come back. When I asked whether it bothered him that are in my constituency but which fall within the he might not be able to return the product the following borough boundaries of Wokingham borough council. I week, his simple response was, “Woolworths might not would be extremely interested to know where the be here next week.” As it happened, Woolworths was demarcation would be for a touting offence to be not there the next week, so his example was fitting. committed, and how it would be policed. It is not clear from the Bill how the offence is intended to work or be The local police force also has an important part to used, so it is somewhat equivalent to a blank cheque. play. I met town centre police officer Rob Murray, who What offence would the laws be used for? Would they explained that, although illegal peddling is not a just be for the Reading festival, or would they be for priority for the police, it is one of the main issues that sporting events such as London Irish rugby matches, or the local neighbourhood action group consistently concerts at the Hexagon in Reading town centre? raises. Astonishingly, the group raises the matter as Ticket touting is not illegal elsewhere in the country, often as more serious problems, such as antisocial apart from, I think— behaviour, rough sleeping in the town centre, which is increasing, and problems relating to the night-time economy, such as drinking and prostitution. Police Philip Davies: Football. enforcement exercises and prosecutions using CCTV have had limited effect. Sergeant Murray said that only Mr. Wilson: Apart from football matches. I thank my seven prosecutions had been brought in recent years, hon. Friend for confirming that. Where will the limits which suggests that the existing legislation has not been on the power be? It strikes me that the Bill would create thoroughly used. 341 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order)3 JUNE 2009 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 342

I have also engaged in correspondence with the Berkshire of the application for a change in the legislation, which, West BCU commander Richard Bennett, who has informed as we know, dates back to 1871. He says that the 1871 me that the police are required to regulate pedlars while Act is now simply not fit for the purpose of controlling the local council regulates street traders. There is therefore the activity that it was originally intended to control. a division of responsibility. The main conflict occurs I want to draw hon. Members’attention to the comments when people use pedlar certificates to avoid the regulations made by my hon. Friend the Member for Cotswold and limitations placed on street traders. One of the (Mr. Clifton-Brown) in our previous debate. He advocated main barriers to prosecution is the requirement on dealing with the problem through an overarching, national pedlars to keep moving. Is it sensible to ask our police solution, rather than through piecemeal legislation. He to regulate that, and make them watch pedlars, who pull rightly asked: if the Reading Borough Council Bill big trolleys up and down Broad street, waiting for them receives Royal Assent, what is to stop other local authorities to stop for a period of time so that they can prosecute from seeking the same legislation in their town centres? them? Is that not a waste of valuable time and resources, Not only would valuable parliamentary time have to be when the police could engage with far greater priorities found for each separate Bill, but there would be a for my constituents? detrimental effect on the public purse. That is a serious point, because I understand that Philip Davies: I believe that my hon. Friend’s constituency each such Bill that is brought to Parliament costs about is covered by Thames Valley police. According to the £100,000. I understand that a portion of the cost of the Durham university report, three people were found Reading Borough Council Bill is being funded by the guilty of offences in 2006 under the Pedlars Act 1871, business improvement district, but perhaps there are and in 2005, there were no prosecutions. Is my hon. better ways of spending local taxpayers’ money than Friend saying that there is a big problem but the police bringing forward such Bills from across the country in do not have the resources to deal with it, or that the the way that we are. I am digressing slightly, Mr. Deputy conviction rate is so low because there is not that much Speaker, but with 50 Bills in the pipeline, a significant of problem in Reading? Is he saying that there is a amount of public money would be needed to try to take problem, but the police simply have no time or resources them all through Parliament. to tackle it? There is an argument that much of the current private legislation would be unnecessary if the Government Mr. Wilson: From my direct experience, there is a agreed to a national legislative framework. Indeed, some problem. There are a significant number of pedlars, but hon. Members argued strongly for that in previous the difficulty is proving that they have committed an debates. That is one reason why I read with interest the offence. One has to watch pedlars pulling trolleys up research conducted by St. Chad’s college, Durham, to and down the street for a long time—several hours. which my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley has There can be six, eight, sometimes even 10 big trolleys— referred, that was commissioned by the Department for some are the size of a street stall. That is not easy to Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform. That research police and one has to watch carefully if one wants the raised several interesting points that are worthy of mention prosecution to stick. It is a question of resources, and I in this debate in relation to Reading borough council. sympathise with the police’s problem, which is why it is probably better for the local authority to play a bigger The research concluded that the scale of pedlary in role in policing peddling. the UK is relatively modest—although one would not know that from some of our debates—with an estimated Rather than expecting the police to take action against 3,000 to 4,500 people being granted certificates by pedlars, it is much better that local authorities should police forces across the country. The study found little have sufficient powers to regulate the offending behaviour evidence that certificated pedlars present problems in themselves. Richard Bennett also reiterated the fact that most city centres or that they are in direct competition neighbourhood policing is not intended to address all with shops or street traders. The evidence also suggested the licensing and trading issues that the local authority that consumers value pedlars’ presence in town centres is meant to control. The local police response was that and regard buying from them as a positive experience, Reading borough council has a responsibility to create as I found when I was out looking at the issue in the sort of conditions in the town centre that will help Reading town centre. The study ended by stating that legitimate street traders to prosper. there is no need for national legislation, although solutions The upshot of the police response is simple. Although may be required to deal with local problems in particular each case is complex, giving limited additional powers areas. to other agencies, such as Reading borough council, Although I have already highlighted the legal anomaly would increase the range of options available to all that would arise because of the split of my constituency authorities to put sensible measures in place. Although into two areas under separate local authorities, I believe I would not wish to generalise about other forces across that the conclusions of the report are sensible and fair. the country, Reading police made it clear that it sees the It says that the most common desire of local authorities Bill not as being about handing over power to the is to be able to exercise more flexible and powerful council, but as being about sharing responsibility, which sanctions, such as the ability to seize goods, issue fixed will make enforcement action much quicker and more penalty notices and move traders on. However, the coherent. most evident concern related to the issues of obstruction That is a logical and sensible approach. If the Reading or public safety caused by large numbers of street Borough Council Bill is passed, it would undoubtedly traders gathering in small areas, such as around football free up the police’s valuable resources to address more grounds or in city centres in the run-up to Christmas. pressing issues in the Reading area. Steve Kirk, Reading’s My experience in Reading town centre is that large local police area commander, has also written in support numbers of pedlars gather there with their big trolleys. 343 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order)3 JUNE 2009 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 344

[Mr. Rob Wilson] In the short contribution that I made earlier, I sought to highlight that there was no intention by Reading At certain times, that causes an obstruction and becomes borough council or its officers—or, indeed, the business a public safety issue for my constituents. There is therefore community of Reading—to restrict the more traditional a need for action in that area. role of the pedlar. There is, however, a problem with Pedlars and police respondents to the research by the their wheeled monstrosities. I call them that because I university of Durham also recognised the need to modernise have seen bogus pedlars trying to move them, and it can and standardise, rather than repeal or replace, the 1871 take four or five people to move them only a yard or Act. The inadequacies of the present system lead to two. Reports from the police and from the council inconsistency in enforcement practice between areas, officer concerned show that attempts to move these which is exacerbated by a degree of ignorance among mobile stalls have resulted in goods and wares falling on enforcement officers. I am sure that we all agree that to the ground in a chaotic manner. greater clarity on this issue is needed for enforcement My experience of trying to buy something from a officers and pedlars alike. Interestingly, many of the pedlar is less romantic than that of the hon. Member local authorities that submitted evidence said that there for Reading, East. The last time I approached a pedlar were few, if any, difficulties stemming from illegal street in Reading town centre, I was just about to investigate trading. Only half the local authority respondents wished his wares when he was arrested by the police and the to change the existing legislation. This shows that, while Border and Immigration Agency and subsequently deported certain councils—Reading included—wish to add to as an illegal immigrant. So there is, I am afraid, a direct their statutory powers, many are happy with the status parallel, with people using the pedlar certificate and the quo. Such information raises concerns about how important arcane provisions of the Pedlars Act 1871 as a the new legislation really is. The Durham research concluded straightforward flag of convenience—this applies in that possible changes to procedures relating to pedlars Reading and in other communities—in order to undercut, could include a more concrete nationally applicable set undermine and provide unfair competition for legitimate of definitions and guidelines relating to the issuing of street traders. certificates and to pedlars’ activities, the redesign and It is worth reading into the record that the street standardisation of the pedlars’ certificate and a greater trader fees currently levied for Broad street in the centre burden on the pedlar to prove that they are a legitimate of Reading are £5,425 a year—and there were six of trader. these at the time—so it equates to approximately £15 a As a former entrepreneur—indeed, I still like to think day, whereas a pedlar’s certificate can be obtained anywhere of myself as a businessman—I strongly believe in the in the country, I believe, for about £12.50. right to free, open and fair trade. I do not wish in any It is also worth stating, notwithstanding the Durham way to be seen to be against pedlars, because legitimate report—much of it does not apply to Reading because traders have a rightful place on every high street and Reading does not restrict pedlars or street traders to the add to the colour and diversity of our towns and cities. I peripheries of the town centre—that the definition of a do not want this legislation to drive out the genuine pedlar is somewhat arcane in itself. According to the pedlar. However, I also do not believe that an ambiguity definition in the 1871 Act, a pedlar is in the law should enable certain individuals to flout the “any hawker, pedlar, petty chapman”— rules at the expense of others. whatever that means— Having aired these arguments and raised a few points “tinker, caster of metals, mender of chairs, or any other person of continued concern, I am going to support the Bill on who, without any horse or other beast of bearing or drawing this occasion, but on the clear understanding that my burden, travels and trades on foot and goes from town to town or hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch—whose diligence to other men’s houses, carrying to sell or exposing for sale any must be commended—has brokered a very sensible goods, wares, or merchandise, or procuring orders for goods, compromise with Reading borough council. I congratulate wares, or merchandise immediately to be delivered, or selling or offering for sale his skill in handicraft”. the borough officer responsible, Clare Bradley, on agreeing a sensible compromise that all parties, including myself, Now, about 130 years down the track, it is time to appear to be happy with. That compromise will allow define exactly what we mean by pedlar in the modern pedlars to continue to trade in the heart of my constituency, context. I have to say that some of the starry-eyed but without using the massive rolling trolleys to which I romanticism I heard from the hon. Member for Reading, have referred. They are more akin to street traders’ East—not so much in his recent contribution as in stalls on wheels, and they allow unfair competition. The previous ones—is well wide of the mark. pedlars will be able to trade in the more traditional way When it comes to the Reading Borough Council Bill, intended, and their enterprise will therefore be properly I very much regret the fact that while making provision rewarded. I welcome the compromise and will therefore for important measures to support legitimate businesses not detain the House any further. in our communities, we are putting increasing and unnecessary pressures on the police, and so on and so forth. I worry that we are proceeding through the measure 4.58 pm of a private Bill and I worry about all the expense, the Martin Salter (Reading, West) (Lab): It would be trouble and all the parliamentary time taken up. However, churlish of me not to welcome the conversion of the we are where we are. As the former Prime Minister, hon. Member for Reading, East (Mr. Wilson), but it is Clement Attlee, once said, we have to live in the world fair to say that it has been some time coming. The as we find it, and the world as we find it in Reading is House has been entertained by hon. Members airing of that we have a real, live problem that needs to be dealt the arguments on the Durham university report on with. I am thus delighted that it looks as though we are many occasions. I welcome the fact that a compromise going to send this Bill on to due parliamentary process has been struck. this afternoon. 345 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order)3 JUNE 2009 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 346

The Bill is supported by the business investment to pedlar legislation and the way in which pedlars are district, which is a coalition of Reading street traders, handled or there is not. Although I acknowledge the by the Thames Valley police, by all parties on Reading number of private Bills that have been brought to the borough council and particularly by the legal street attention of the House, the number of local authorities traders who pay their dues. I seriously take issue with across the UK that have not sought to introduce legislation the hon. Member for Reading, East about the notion of on the issue to date is also worth noting. consumer rights, particularly the idea that we should There has been growing pressure on the Government somehow frame a policy prescription for consumer to consider the issue. My hon. Friend the Member for rights on the basis that it does not really matter whether Bolton, South-East (Dr. Iddon) has been particularly a chain store is going to be there today or tomorrow. If astute in his consistent lobbying of the Government to people are ripped off and sold dodgy goods, it is important take action. As the House knows, we have responded to that, wherever possible, they have the opportunity to such calls. take them back to the specific retailer. I very much regret the fact that Woolworths went under—it is no Philip Davies: Does the Minister not acknowledge laughing matter—but I would certainly not frame public the domino effect as local authorities request legislation policy on the basis that because any business may cease to sort out their city, and then other local authorities trading at any time, we do not need to worry about the find the problem transferred to them and also request rights of consumers. legislation? Does he not agree that national legislation would sort out the problem once and for all? Mr. Rob Wilson: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Martin Salter: Very briefly. Mr. Thomas: I do not necessarily accept that that is the case. Where local authorities face problems, they Mr. Wilson: The hon. Gentleman, who I thank for have sought a private Bill in the usual way to address giving way, is operating under a misunderstanding. If local issues. I also acknowledge that a growing number, he read the Hansard, he would find that I was directly albeit a minority, of local authorities have been concerned reporting the comments of one of my constituents about how pedlar legislation has been used, and have rather than commenting about Woolworths myself, so made the case for reform. In that spirit, we have sought he should correct his error. to conduct the research led by Durham university, to which I will refer in a moment. Martin Salter: Frankly, if I read some of the speeches My hon. Friend the Member for Reading, West (Martin on this subject, I would lose the will to live, but I will Salter) again made a passionate and powerful speech in certainly check the Hansard to ensure that I have not favour of the Reading Borough Council Bill. The hon. misrepresented the hon. Gentleman’s laughing at the Member for Reading, East (Mr. Wilson) also made a closure of Woolworths in Reading, which I think many thoughtful and considered case for the Bill. I was almost people view as a matter of regret. sympathetic to his plight as my hon. Friend the Member As to where we go from here, I hope that all these intervened on him: his interventions made me grateful Bills will pass to their next stages and that we can that he continues to be on my side. My hon. Friend the continue the consensus that we have finally forged. I pay Member for Nottingham, East (Mr. Heppell) also made tribute to all hon. Members who have sought to find a a passionate defence of his city’s need for the legislation solution to a very real problem, albeit through a rather under consideration. tortuous parliamentary route. For the convenience of the House, let me set out the Government’s updated thinking on the issues. In March, 5.5 pm during the revival debate on these and three other The Minister for Trade, Development and Consumer private Bills, I confirmed that my Department would Affairs (Mr. Gareth Thomas): This has been an interesting undertake a consultation this summer on street trading debate, which has carried on from previous discussions and pedlary, as a result of the research findings set out of similar private Bills. in the Durham university report, which my Department I acknowledge the contribution of my right hon. commissioned last year. As I have said, we hope to Friend the Member for Leeds, West (John Battle), who launch the consultation by the summer recess. Details is a great champion of his city. He made a short, concise will appear on the DBERR website in the usual way, but nevertheless significant speech in favour of the and no doubt the hon. Member for Shipley will be one Leeds City Council Bill, backed up by my hon. Friend of the first to spot them. the Member for Leeds, North-East (Mr. Hamilton). My John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): I welcome right hon. Friend noted in particular an amendment the consultation on the Pedlars Act. May I ask the proposed by Leeds. I share his regret at the absence of Minister, however, whether in the future he might recognise the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope)—I am that £100,000 is a relatively high threshold, and that not sure he will welcome the Government wishing him nothing should necessarily be read into the fact that well in his recovery, but I do so nevertheless. local authority nuisance has not reached the threshold The hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) made a of £100,000 worth of expenditure? series of interesting points, and has clearly being doing his research. As part of that, I hope he is now reading Mr. Thomas: I acknowledge the cost of bringing a the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory private Bill to the Floor of the House of Commons. Reform website—a confession to which he alluded in One of the reasons why the Government commissioned previous debates—more thoroughly and rigorously. I the Durham university research, and one of the reasons am happy to be corrected by him, but he seemed to for the consultation that we are launching in the summer, argue that either there is a national problem in relation is the fact that we received a number of representations 347 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order)3 JUNE 2009 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 348

[Mr. Thomas] Members on both sides of the House have mentioned, the process of bringing a private Bill before the House is from local authorities and hon. Members about the expensive, quite complicated, pretty time-consuming need for the Government to review this issue nationally. and rather arcane. We have sought to respond to the concerns of the House. I am sure that, in his more generous moments, It is worthy of note that these local councils have the hon. Gentleman will acknowledge that we are a found their way through the different thickets and listening Government and have listened to the concerns underbrush of parliamentary procedure to get to this of the House in this instance. point. It has been an achievement. It is also worth mentioning that a number of other local authorities As the House will recognise, the activities of unlawful may be deterred from bringing such Bills to the House street traders can adversely affect the livelihoods of because the process is so complicated and relatively licensed street traders, certified pedlars—those acting in expensive. That point was made by the spokesman for accordance with the Pedlars Act—other retailers and the Liberal Democrats. consumers. We therefore strongly support the efforts of local authorities and their enforcement partners to use My constituency has similar problems with pedlars. the powers at their disposal to regulate unlawful traders’ Every autumn, the Weston-super-Mare carnival is held— behaviour. carnivals are a wonderful west country, Somerset tradition. In due course, the street trading and pedlary consultation On a Monday evening in late autumn, a colourful and will seek to explore three main themes. First, it will seek loud procession will wend its way through the streets of views on options concerning the scope for providing Weston-super-Mare, with a lot of people turning up to extra enforcement powers along the lines of those which watch. I have had repeated representations from the are subject to these Bills—in particular, fixed penalties organisers of the carnival, who perform that task in and powers of seizure and confiscation to enable more their free time, as volunteers, to raise money for a effective control of illegal street traders. Secondly, it will variety of good causes. They are concerned that, for seek views on the potential for updating the Pedlars Act that night, Weston-super-Mare is besieged by pedlars to bring what is a 19th-century framework firmly into from throughout the country who come to sell their the 21st century. We will consider the future of the form wares. The organisers are concerned that money spent of the pedlars’ certificate. We will consider which should with those pedlars might otherwise be spent or donated be the issuing authority if it is not to be the police, as is to the various good causes that benefit from the carnival. currently the case. We will consider how to maintain the People are deeply concerned about that lost revenue. national nature of a genuine pedlar’s permission to trade while still meeting the valid wish of some local Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): I authorities to be able to control the level of trading support the hon. Gentleman strongly on this matter. As activity in relation to special events or in particular he knows, the circuit includes many Somerset towns—no areas where too much trading has an adverse effect. one outside Somerset has any concept of the scale of Thirdly, we will seek views on draft guidance that Somerset carnivals—so pedlars are a real problem offers clearer advice on what is permitted and what is throughout the county. As he knows, his predecessor not. We will also seek views on the future position of tried hard to get the law changed to deal with the pedlars of services in the wake of alterations in the problem. I hope that through the process of private course of implementation of the services directive. We Bills, the Government will eventually recognise that the will seek to reach the pedlar community. We will also prevalence of pedlars are a problem for the charitable work with trading standards and other local authority sector as well as for commercial traders. officers in considering how the options before us might be usefully developed, and we will, of course, want to John Penrose: I am grateful for my fellow Somerset hear the views of the police. MP’s support. What we have described is a microcosm A range of other key stakeholders are already considering of a much wider problem. My local council has considered what should be done. The National Association of bringing one of these Bills to the House but after British Market Authorities will hold a seminar later this extensive consideration it has so far decided that it month. As we have heard, some local authorities whose cannot justify the expense, for the reasons that have Bills are before the House have already discussed with a been mentioned by hon. Members on both sides of the number of hon. Members their experience of the current House. I compliment those councils that have promoted legislation and their appetite for more change, and I the Bills before the House today. They have managed to understand that a number of pedlars also wish to share wend their way to the Floor of the House but I suspect their experience of the current position. that a large number of other councils are either actively I welcome the work of those other stakeholders, considering doing the same, or have so far been dissuaded which we shall want to use in our deliberations. We shall because of the cost of the process. It is worth putting also give further consideration to the debates on these that point on record. Bills that have already taken place in the House, and As we have heard, there are arguments about the those that will take place in the future, in deciding what merits and demerits of pedlars. It is worth saying that action to take. I commend the Government’s neutrality no one is suggesting that legal street traders and pedlars on the Bills to the House. may not necessarily be a good thing—in fact, they are closely regulated and it is accepted that they can bring a 5.15 pm useful buzz and colour to the streetscape and town John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare) (Con): I commend centre, and can be an important aspect of a shopping the industry and efforts of the different local councils centre’s life and fizz. However, the problem is with the who have brought the Bills to the House. As hon. unregulated or perhaps the rogue examples of the trade. 349 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order)3 JUNE 2009 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 350

My party shares the Government’s approach of The Reading Bill contains interesting provisions relating maintaining a careful and studied neutrality on individual to touting. It refers to: Bills brought before the House by individual councils. It “Any person who, in a place designated under this section, would be wrong to adopt a national position on such importunes any person by touting for a hotel”. special local Bills, but our overarching view is worth It would be interesting to know how the courts would putting on the record. We think that it is important that interpret that. Selecting the word “importunes” rather the existing legislation is subject to some national reform than “solicits” implies that somebody is being asked and examination, especially given the fact that we have more than once. If we are to develop a framework for all these Bills coming through to the Floor of the House dealing with such issues, which we have supported all in a rather solemn procession. Clearly, that cannot be a along, the Government’s consultation should also consider sensible or useful use of this Chamber’s time and of the what might need to be done about touting, and whether extensive resources that have to be spent in bringing that should be addressed in relation to soliciting or each one of those Bills separately and in sequence to the importuning, which is the term used in the Bill. It might Floor of the House. That cannot be a sensible use of be difficult to secure prosecutions if somebody says, anyone’s time or resources. “Well, I only asked them once”, given what, on the That is why I was extremely pleased to hear what I strict dictionary definition of the term used, the measure understood to be the beginnings of Government movement, in the Bill means. and I just want to make sure that that is clearly put on I had great encouragement from the hon. Member the record. I think we heard the Minister say that the for Nottingham, East to give a very long speech, but I Government will now be considering, and consulting am not sure that I entirely understood his semaphoring on, extra enforcement powers, clearer guidance and so I shall stick to talking about the basic issues, as I have advice, and changing the Pedlars Act 1871—after 130-plus so far. We support these private Bills, but in future, we years, I suspect that may very well be sensible—not only will have to look at how legislation can be changed by to update some of the existing provisions, but to investigate public demand without that having to be agreed by a whether it should cover services as well as goods. Everybody Department, because it is clear from the Bills’ progress will broadly welcome that. If it avoids the need for any that the Department for Business, Enterprise and other local councils to bring yet more of these Bills, it Regulatory Reform is resistant to necessary change. will make everybody in all parts of the House happy— However, that resistance is gradually eroding as it is including my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch obvious that so many local authorities have reached the (Mr. Chope), whom we all wish well in his recovery threshold where they are willing to spend more than from his detached retina. I assure the House that my £100,000—the £100,000 merely relates to the costs paid party will be carefully watching the Government’s progress externally and there are obviously internal costs too. in this matter, and will try to make sure they have all the In the context of reform within this House and how necessary support if they are going to simplify processes legislation is generated, there must be a better mechanism so that we do not need a similar procession of such Bills for reviewing how to alter things, so that changes do not in future. come just through the civil service, but can be developed 5.21 pm outside this House and promoted in this House more John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): We have effectively in mainstream business. That is different been generally supportive of reform in this matter. It is from everything coming along with the bus, as it were, obvious that there are widespread problems with pedlary, with a standard Bill, on whatever it might be, generated as the situation at Somerset carnivals shows, and it does out of the civil service. Resistance from within a not require a lot of evidence. We can, I think, take at Department—we are pleased to see it ebbing away on face value the tales of, for example, the hon. Member this occasion—causes the difficulty of a sequence of for Nottingham, East (Mr. Heppell) and the right hon. expensive private Bills and potentially a situation where Member for Leeds, West (John Battle) that there is a we drive a problem around the country as we deal with specific problem in their areas. It will clearly create it in each place. I must welcome the fact that the unfair competition if in Reading, for example, people Government have recognised that and are moving to have to pay £5,000 a year for a licence, but for £12.50 consultation. Within that consultation they should also people can wander around all over the place. examine the issue of touting, because if Reading feels that it is worth examining, it is important that we deal We should give more attention to the process whereby with the wider point. On that basis, we will be supporting the law gets changed and how we have ended up with a these Bills. sequence of Bills and to the fact that, until this point, the Government have not recognised the need for reform. Question put and agreed to. To that extent, we greatly welcome the Government’s Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed. consultation on the issue of pedlary. A law put in place when people did not have easy transport around the country and would wander around with their goods is NOTTINGHAM CITY COUNCIL BILL (BY now undermining the regulation of the street scene. ORDER) Street traders are very important, but when people come Bill read a Second time and committed. in to localities from different areas, that causes a difficulty. Oddly enough, in my constituency, we have moved down the route of discouraging cold calling as well, which points to another issue that should, perhaps, be looked at in the consultation. Given that distraction READING BOROUGH COUNCIL BILL (BY burglaries are a great concern in Birmingham, Yardley, ORDER) we might need to look at that wider issue as well. Bill read a Second time and committed. 351 Leeds City Council Bill (By Order) 3 JUNE 2009 352

[Leeds City Council Bill (By Order)] Regional and Local Government PETITION Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Ms Butler.) European Working Time Directive (Fire Fighters) 5.28 pm 5.26 pm Andrew George (St. Ives) (LD): I am enormously Mr. Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): pleased, and I am sure that the Minister is delighted, By the leave of the House, I beg to lay a petition that we have such a lot of time to debate this important regarding the UK opt-out from the EU working time issue—I was very much hoping that the House would directive. The directive would pose a threat to the have sufficient time to debate Government policy on retained firefighting system in the UK. The petition has regional and local government powers. I know that the been collected by the residents of Brecon and Radnorshire Minister has received from my office an essay that I and contains more than 1,000 names. published three months ago, which, among other things, The petition states: set out what I hope will prove to be a positive and To the House of Commons constructive contribution to the debate on the new The Petition of residents of Brecon and Radnorshire, and structure for local government in Cornwall. As a member others, of the Select Committee on Communities and Local Declares that the European Parliament’s proposed abolition of Government, which two weeks ago published its own the opt-out from the European Working Time Directive poses a report on the balance of power between local and threat to the retained fire fighter system in the United Kingdom; central Government, I think it is a timely moment to and further declares that the United Kingdom should maintain debate this matter. Given that we are on the eve of its right to opt out of the European Working Time Directive so important elections across the country—not only the that the retained fire fighters are able to continue with their European but the local elections—I am sure the Minister commitment to the vitally important fire service. would like to take the opportunity to set out the The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons Government’s vision. I hope he will accede to some of urges the Government to do all in its power to preserve the right to opt out and to keep our rural fire stations open. the ambitions I shall be highlighting and the points I shall be making. And the Petitioners remain, etc. [P000377] I am sure that the Minister will have enjoyed reading the 21-page essay that I sent him, and he will have noticed that I attempted to raise the debate above what has often been, in many local areas, best described as petty recrimination and party political tribalism of the worst type. It is unfortunate that so much of the debate at a local government level often resorts to that. That is no less the case in Cornwall than in many other parts of the country. I believe that it is partly a reflection of the relative powerlessness of local people when it comes to considering what local authorities can achieve. I often describe local authorities not as local authorities or local government as such but as local agents of central Government, given the constraints and straitjackets in which they operate as regards their duties and powers and the targets and responsibilities that are placed on them. In effect, the decisions that they take are often de facto taken remotely in Whitehall or in Government offices. In fact, the latitude available to local authorities is restricted when it comes to their ability to vary the way they deliver a number of Government services. I do not say that simply to make a point against the Labour Government, because I think this trend has been going on for some time and, to be fair, it has been happening across parties. It is part of the dynamic of the relationship between central and local government that we all need to be honest about.

Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): I agree entirely with what the hon. Gentleman is saying. He is making his case incredibly well. Does he agree that that problem is best evidenced in planning, where local councils are often put in an invidious position and end up having to approve developments that they and their local communities do not want? They have no choice because of the plethora of guidance that comes down from central Government. 353 Regional and Local Government3 JUNE 2009 Regional and Local Government 354

Andrew George: I certainly agree with the hon. Gentleman which the Government are to abolish; that is about as but, having said that, I think that the one area where a far as they have managed to go in the devolution of certain amount of power is available to local authorities, regional powers. in which—surprise, surprise, perhaps—there is often In some senses, in some parts of Government there is more competition among selected members to go on to a passion genuinely to deliver regional powers—there is the relevant committee, is planning. In fact, the planning recognition that the state is far too centralised. I hope committees make decisions on the economic, residential that the Government will open the issue up again, and and other development of their communities. That happens not come at it from the angle of believing that they can very much at a local level and is, admittedly, site-specific control the agenda in the way they have done. They and is applied case by case, but that committee has should set a menu of powers and allow local authorities more power. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that that themselves to decide, perhaps in the same way that they power is not sufficient to allow the committee to direct are enabling that to happen through the multi-area development in the way I believe local authorities should agreements. However, I do not think those agreements be entitled to, but planning is probably the area in go far enough, or will in any sense deliver what I believe which local authorities have most power. If the hon. the Government should deliver. Gentleman reflects on that, he will see that it means that in all other areas of local government, powers are The Government should allow communities to come extremely restricted. together to draw up their own plans for devolved regional settlement, for taking powers away from the quangos, It is also worth reflecting for a moment on the and for allowing decisions instead to be taken by directly Government’s record on regional government and regional elected representatives of local communities, who can government powers. Although I do not intend to take shape and steer the ways their communities develop. If up a lot of time on this issue—it is one that has been the Government were to allow that to happen, it would widely debated on many occasions—it is perhaps worth be easier to recognise that local government itself could reflecting that the Government set out with an honourable be developed following the same principle—the principle objective, which was to try to establish regional government that decentralisation is not just a process but is about across the country.They rightly set out to deliver devolution letting go rather than holding on to the agenda. I hope in Scotland and Wales and, as part of the peace process, that that is what the Government will do. in Northern Ireland. They set out to do so in London, As the Under-Secretary of State for Communities too, of course. That was an appropriate approach to the and Local Government, the hon. Member for Tooting concept and policy of delivering devolution across the (Mr. Khan), knows full well, Cornwall county council UK. and the six district and borough councils in Cornwall went through a painful process, which involved a lot of Of course, devolution is a process rather than a single recriminatory and unsatisfactory debate of the kind event, and those who understand how the process works that I described to him a moment or two ago, in the recognise that. When addressing the issue of the vacuum lead-up to the establishment of a single unitary authority. or lack of devolved power in the rest of the country, the Elections to that authority take place tomorrow. Government seemed to forget that the fundamental principle of devolution is that it is a process of letting Cornwall put forward two possible patterns for the go, rather than holding on for dear life. I would have delivery of a single unitary authority, which I know the hoped that, after 12 years in power, the Government Government considered carefully. One proposal was for might have had the opportunity to reflect on that but, a single unitary authority with 18 local delivery areas or disappointingly, so far they seem not to have done so. community networks; the other proposal was for six local delivery areas, reflecting the existing six districts. I say that devolution is a process of letting go rather Both were unitary options. They seemed to be in conflict than holding on, because the Government appeared to with each other, but in many senses they were similar take the view that they should define the boundaries of bids. the so-called regions—I call them Government zones—in When it came to a decision on the option that the which powers were supposedly to be handed down. Government went along with, which was the county They also set the timetable by which they would deliver council’s version of the single unitary authority, the those powers. They set out the basis on which the debate was not very satisfactory. Many people in Cornwall north-east referendum of 2004 would be held. In all felt that there was insufficient consultation. Those who senses, the devolution process was very much led by were unsuccessful at the district level, if I may say so, central Government. engaged in a recriminatory political campaign to try to I do not come from the north-east; I come from the stop the initiative going through. diametrically opposite end of the country. I come from Many of us felt that the process may be worth pursuing the far west of Cornwall—the bottom left-hand corner, if the Government were prepared to give Cornwall as it were. If the Government said to Cornwall, “We’ll some real decision-making powers, but as the negotiation offer you regional government based on these boundaries, went on it became clear that the Government would not these powers and this timetable. Now this is the question: offer Cornwall any meaningful additional powers. It do you want it or not?”, I am afraid that a lot of people would be the same, but larger, agent of central Government would be rather sceptical and would think there was a as before, when there were seven authorities. That was a centrally driven agenda. The Government have retreated great disappointment. into a rather unhappy netherworld, having established In the vote on the order last year, I voted, with great Regional Select Committees, for which there is no cross- regret, against the proposal. I felt that it should be party consensus or support. Those Committees are a taken away and worked on again, with the Government means of replacing the unelected regional assemblies, contributing a great deal more to the process of establishing 355 Regional and Local Government3 JUNE 2009 Regional and Local Government 356

[Andrew George] and, seen from a much wider perspective, faces out to a much wider world. It has maritime connections, is three a stronger tier of government in Cornwall. However, miles from the busiest shipping lane in the world, has the decision is taken not in Cornwall but in Parliament, the second-largest natural harbour in Europe, at Falmouth, and Parliament saw to it that the order went through, so and so on. All that potential is being ignored, and the unitary authority is being set up. As the Minister Cornwall is simply seen as a pleasant holiday destination. knows, it has established its interim board, which has been in operation since 1 April, and the first elections Cornwall should have the power to shape those matters for 123 members will take place tomorrow. and its own future. After all, who should decide how many homes are built in Cornwall? The hon. Member In spite of having been opposed to it, I want to for Shipley (Philip Davies) mentioned planning powers, ensure that the council is a great success. The Government and I know that it is highly contentious both in the need to recognise that, underlying a rather frustrated House and in local authorities. The Government want local government sector in Cornwall and a rather to develop 3 million homes by 2020, but Cornwall has disenchanted electorate—we will see by Friday evening undergone such development. We have not tried to what result they produce for us—there is great ambition resist it, because the county is one of the fastest growing for Cornwall. In any area there is the silliness of the places in the country. It has had the third fasted housing extreme fringes, but Cornwall, with its own language, development since the early 1960s. In the past 40 years, history and strong constitutional status on account of Cornwall has more than doubled its housing stock, yet the Duchy, has strong arguments to promote its diversity over that period the housing problems of local people and cultural strength. It is not a case of Cornwall have become, if anything, far worse. Simply building wanting to cut itself off from the rest of the country houses—heaping up thousands of houses—is not the and to become rather nationalistic and narrow, but answer. As far as the plans for Cornwall are concerned, rather of Cornwall wanting to enter into the celebration the decisions are taken outside the county. The south-west of diversity in the UK and the wider world, but it can assembly, as it called itself before it was abolished, was do that only from a position of strength, not if it has engaged in the process of deciding what the regional little latitude to take decisions. spatial strategy should look like. It came up with a Cornwall’s great ambition is to be the United Kingdom’s figure, which was then overruled by the Secretary of green peninsula. We already have more wind turbines, State; one wonders why it bothered in the first place. the Government support the wave hub experiment off Cornwall now has to have 70,000 houses during the the north coast of my constituency. and in Cornwall 16 or 17 remaining years of the plan. However, having there are some excellent companies operating in the experienced the highest housing growth anywhere within geothermal and renewables sectors. In Cornwall, there the Government zone, and very high housing growth in is a lot of imaginative thinking and there are many the context of the UK overall, we in Cornwall know excellent people to drive that agenda in the county itself. that simply adding all those houses will not address There is a real passion and ambition to champion social housing need. We need to establish policies that enable justice and to create the conditions for a more equal local authorities—in Cornwall’s case, the local authority— society. There is an ambition also to put our young and local communities to drive a development process people at the centre of policy making, but it is currently that meets local social housing need. difficult to do so given the resources that are available and the way policy is directed from the centre. The In my part of the world, a large proportion of properties careers service and other services are not under local are second homes; 10 per cent. in Penwith district are, control. for example. I have nothing against the people who own There is an ambition to build a powerful brand for those homes, but they clearly have an impact on local Cornwall, but that is difficult when the regional development people’s ability to purchase a property locally. Just last agency covers the Government zone of the south-west, year, I did a survey of estate agents in my constituency, stretching from the constituency of the hon. Member and it showed that three times as many properties were for Stroud (Mr. Drew) down to my constituency, which sold to second-home buyers as to first-time buyers. includes the Isles of Scilly.The south-west, as a Government That is the pattern in the housing market of my area. As zone, really has no brand. There are many lovely places I have said, simply building more houses is not the in it, and it is worth their establishing their own brands, answer. People who want to buy second homes will but there is no such thing as that south-west. It has been clearly be better able to buy those houses than local difficult to generate any enthusiasm or support from the people on local wages—in Cornwall, we have the lowest regional development agency for something that it fears wages in the country. We have to do something rather is about promoting a brand within the brand that it more sophisticated than simply dumping 70,000 houses wants to create for that invented region. in Cornwall. The four western districts of the county are already among the four most densely populated We also have an opportunity to rediscover the rural districts in the Government zone, so it is not as if a distinctiveness of Cornwall, to build on the cultural and wealth of development land available is available. environmental strengths of the county, to be outward-facing not inward-looking and to develop our communications Who should decide how many homes should be built and maritime industries. When the Government look at in Cornwall? Should it be a Government quango or transport both in Cornwall and, strategically, within the people elected to the local authority? If we ask people RDA zone, they see the area as some kind of landlocked there, they will say, “We want a say on this matter.” I am appendage and worry how much tarmac there is and talking about Cornwall, but if people in any community whether the roads and the rail services are adequate, as are asked whether a Government board or people who if all communications in Cornwall travel just east to represent the local community should decide whether west. In fact, Cornwall is almost surrounded by sea 15 per cent. of money spent on elective surgical work 357 Regional and Local Government3 JUNE 2009 Regional and Local Government 358 should be diverted to private hospitals rather than NHS that time, we have built at a much higher density. Before hospitals, the answer will be clear. People believe that I became a Member of Parliament in 1997, I worked in decisions about their local NHS should be made by the charitable sector to meet local housing need. I am local people, not by a process that comes down from not opposed to achieving that by deploying the talents central Government. and abilities available in the housing association and charitable housing sectors. That diversity can address Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester, South) (Lab): I am listening housing needs. I agree that there are many lessons we with considerable interest to the hon. Gentleman’s can learn from the activities of the past and what local reasonable and measured analysis of the situation, authorities were able to achieve. particularly in Cornwall. I generally agree that it is Let me turn to the document. Without poring over it important that as much as possible should be devolved in tedious detail, I am sure that the Minister will have to local councils and communities, but does the hon. lapped up every single word. He will have noticed that, Gentleman not think that there is inevitably a tendency like the report by the Communities and Local Government for local county councils to say, “Not in my back Committee, “The Balance of Power”, it lists the extent yard”—particularly when it comes to issues such as of the constraints that are placed on local government—for housing? There needs to be another regional tier, below example, the tendency to legislate as a first response; the central Government, that tells local councils that they detailed descriptions associated with legislation; and are obliged to play their part in providing land for the proliferation of targets and performance measures, housing, although they may wish to say that they do not which although reduced have been consolidated. It shows want that housing in their areas. that for 80 per cent. of the time that local authorities spent on performance reporting, they were reporting Andrew George: That is a fair point. The nub of the upwards to Government rather than to the local electorate. issue, however, relates to the blunt instrument of simply There is also the role of inspectorates, backed up by the dumping housing numbers, irrespective of local threat of intervention by central Government. circumstances or the failure of a policy of simply putting market housing in an area, a policy which has clearly There is a classic example of that in my constituency failed to deliver the goods. If the local authority were to on the Isles of Scilly. There are various requirements allow very high numbers of people on to local housing from inspectorates in respect of a number of the statutory waiting lists but fail to address, through developments, duties performed by the council of the Isles of Scilly, an unmet demand within the local community for housing, which provides services to 2,000 people on the five that would clearly be a dereliction of its duties. The inhabited islands. The cost of the best-value analyses hon. Gentleman is right to say that there is a role for that inspectorates require, for example on grave digging, central Government in bringing pressure to bear on street lighting or trading standards services, is often local authorities that fail to address those issues. We greater than the cost of providing the service itself. That know that merely saying in Cornwall’s case, “You must shows the rather bizarre circumstances in which local find the land for 70,000 houses,” will not in itself deal authorities sometimes find themselves. with the problem that we are all most concerned about— There is the centralisation of financial arrangements those in the community who are inadequately housed and controls, the movement of functions away from or not housed. The failure lies in using the blunt instrument local authorities to local appointed boards or quangos of high housing numbers. accountable to central Government and the proliferation of requirements on local authorities to submit plans to Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): I thank the central Government. All those things put constraints hon. Gentleman for giving way. I am sorry to have on local authorities, and the only thing that local authorities missed some of the debate, but I have been in Select get back is the opportunity to enter into a competition Committee. for central Government funding to deliver what should Is not the provision of public housing the best way be core public services. Those services could include for central Government, and indeed regional government, early years support through Sure Start, economic to play a part? All the evidence shows that the right development through the market and coastal towns relationship between public housing and private housing initiative, or community cohesion and development through leads to a much better housing model. What has been the neighbourhoods for change programme, the parish seriously wrong for the past 20 years is the belief that path partnership or the play pathfinders scheme. That is the private market can do it all. That approach has not an attack on the current Government, because the failed, and until we get back to proper public housing same approach was taken by the previous one as well, provision, it will continue to fail. Does the hon. Gentleman but all those things are constraints on local authorities agree? and a way of making them dance and pirouette for money to deliver what should be core services in any case. Andrew George: I do, to a certain extent. Certainly, in my own part of the world the best social housing, for I want to get across to the Minister my commitment want of a better expression, in terms of affordability, to the principle set out in the Communities and Local comprises the houses that were built by local authorities Government Committee report, in which I had a hand. in the 1930s and 1940s. If there is any clear preference In paragraph 4 of our conclusions and recommendations, among local people when they are looking for housing, we advanced the principle that we generally find that it is centred on those estates. In “decisions which primarily affect one area to a significantly some cases, those properties have gone through various greater extent than others, should be taken within that area and modernisation programmes. They provide housing for not outside it”— local people that is not only decent but decently spaced, in other words, the subsidiarity principle. Local authorities of a reasonable size and with reasonable gardens. Since taking such decisions should, of course, be able to 359 Regional and Local Government3 JUNE 2009 Regional and Local Government 360

[Andrew George] Act 2007, which is relatively untested. In debates before the 2007 Act was passed, people cited the need to demonstrate that where there is a spill-over impact on address some of the challenges that many local communities other areas, they have taken reasonable steps to take face, especially in sustaining town centres—for example, account of that impact. That principle—that decisions out-of-town supermarkets have an impact on town affecting one area and no other should be taken in that centres. The Government have been notified that many area—is clearly not being delivered through the local authorities want, through the processes that the Government’s attitude to local government. It has also 2007 Act established, to explore the possibility of getting failed to be delivered within local government itself. a more even playing field on, for example, subsidised Although the Select Committee recognised that the parking. Parking is available at almost no cost—with no Government were trying to roll out powers of well-being, business rates levied—to the supermarkets, which gives for example, and that local authorities needed to use them a massive advantage over their town centre some of the powers that were available to them, many competitors, whose customers have to pay prices, which authorities do not feel that they are sufficient. They see are often high, for parking or face the problems of them as rather woolly and ephemeral to what they are yellow lines, traffic wardens and so on. trying to achieve. One of our main points was that there Overall, I know that the Minister is delighted that we was have had so much time to debate the issue, and I am “clearly a wide division of opinion between the Government’s pleased as well. I hope that he will take this opportunity view of recent developments and the views of the majority of our to respond to many of the issues that I raised with him witnesses, many of whom believe that central direction and in advance. I hope that Cornwall and many other areas control remain unchanged or even that they have increased. The now have an opportunity to look with greater optimism Government’s record appears to us to be mixed. There remains a to a future in which local authorities will be genuine sizeable gap between the newly empowered local government that power brokers in their local communities that can shape the Government believes it has established in principle, and the the future not only of their public services, which are actual impact as witnessed at the local level.” their responsibility, but of the communities that they A comparison of what is available to local authorities in serve. I look forward to hearing what the Minister has Britain with the European norm shows the need for to say about enabling councils—not only in Cornwall, some constitutional protection and greater financial but across the country—to deliver a more devolved autonomy and for central Government intervention to settlement and about having far better councils in future. be kept in check. Sadly, I could not get the Select Committee to agree 6.11 pm with me about trying to ensure that the Government had a statutory duty to report back to local government Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): I do not intend to annually about what they had done across all Departments detain the House for long, but may I first congratulate to achieve their stated objective of delivering more the hon. Member for St. Ives (Andrew George) on power to local people through a devolution settlement. securing this Adjournment debate? This debate is about I hope that the Under-Secretary will reflect on the a vital issue that affects all our communities, including points in the Select Committee report and my essay. those in my part of the world, and clearly in his too. I commend him for that. I have not given the Under-Secretary notice of my next point and will therefore understand if he writes to I also commend the hon. Gentleman on his speech, me about it. One of my constituents has raised an issue which was extremely thoughtful, thought provoking with me on behalf of the Henry Spink Foundation. The and interesting. He hit the nail on the head many times Spink family, who live in my constituency, have campaigned in talking about the issues that local people are concerned for disabled children and adults and their carers for about. There is genuine concern about the relationship many years. When disabled children and their families between central Government, regional government and have to move from one local authority to another, they local government. often find that the care package that has been agreed However, one thing that the hon. Gentleman did not with one local authority cannot easily be transferred to touch on, but which may be a fruitful topic for another another. The Henry Spink Foundation rightly wants to time, is—to go further down the line—the role of parish establish at least greater understanding and communication councils and where they fit in. Local residents often see between local authorities to ensure that there is a floor parish councils as expensive talking shops, but if they below which services cannot fall. It wants pragmatic were given the powers that in my opinion they deserve, and cost-neutral reforms, which, it believes, will genuinely we could have genuinely local decision making and they improve the lives of thousands of severely disabled would become more much powerful in the local children and adults and their carers throughout the communities that they serve. However, that debate is UK. That would involve creating an independent social probably best left for another occasion. services tribunal, which would follow the tribunal model I was particularly struck by the hon. Gentleman’s in other sectors, establishing an ombudsman for disability, opening comments about how the relationship between as is found in other European Union countries, and local government and national Government has become reforming local authority regulations so that care more centralised, but not just under this Government, assessments and support packages for children and although the situation has got worse. He was right that adults become easily portable between one local authority that has happened under successive Governments of all and another. political persuasions. Let me consider briefly why that I am interested in the Under-Secretary’s comments might be the case. When a party is in government and about the interplay between where the Government people wish to protest about what that Government are state they wish to be and the Sustainable Communities doing, they often do so in local elections, which means 361 Regional and Local Government3 JUNE 2009 Regional and Local Government 362 that the political make-up of local government is often nimbys and if the decisions were left to them, nothing very different from that of central Government. Not would ever get built. Perhaps I am simplifying his wishing to give up their political power, central Government argument slightly, but that seemed to be the thrust of it. therefore decide to centralise powers, so that their political I do not accept his point. If we believe that there is a opponents cannot have them locally. We need a change need for more housing, presumably that need is expressed of culture in central Government, so that they are more by local communities themselves. Presumably, people relaxed about people from different political parties are saying that their daughters, sons and grandchildren having local control, because at the end of the day, that cannot find anywhere to live and that more housing is is what local democracy is all about. If people decide therefore needed. The Government are for ever telling that they want a party in power locally that differs from us that we need more housing because all these different the Government of the day, so be it. That is what local categories of people are finding it difficult to get on to democracy is all about. Central Government should be the housing ladder. If that is the case, surely local much more relaxed about that and not try to keep all government is just as capable as central Government of the power for themselves. responding to those local needs. In my intervention on the hon. Gentleman, I touched on planning. In my part of the world, planning is the Sir Peter Soulsby: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman is most emotive issue, in respect of the power of local somewhat simplifying the point that I made earlier. I authorities, and it is probably the one that exercises merely pointed out that the voices that he is talking people more than any other. I have great sympathy for about are far too easily drowned out by those who wish local councillors, because they are often put in an to oppose housing development in certain areas. I would invidious position. They get the blame for decisions that argue strongly that it is legitimate for central Government are nominally taken locally, but they have little responsibility to set housing targets to reflect the needs of people in shaping the outcome, because those decisions are throughout the country, and that there needs to be actually made at a higher level, whether it be at the something in between those national targets and the regional or central Government level. Councillors are local tendency to say no. I would argue that that makes put in an extremely difficult position. I would like much the case for an effective regional tier in spatial planning. more power to be given to local government, which does matter to people. People identify with their local Philip Davies: I respect the hon. Gentleman’s position, authority and their local area, and they respect that but I happen not to agree with him. Those decisions institution. We should be much more relaxed about should be taken locally. It is for local people to decide giving local authorities far more power to determine those matters. That is the whole nature of local government. what are clearly local matters. No local matter is more important than planning. Andrew George: What I did not go on to say in My constituents are sick to the back teeth of seeing response to the hon. Member for Leicester, South (Sir more and more completely unwanted developments Peter Soulsby) was that we need to recognise the possible going up. Those developments change the nature of the need for outside intervention in some cases involving villages, but people feel that they have absolutely no diversity and discrimination. An example would be the control over the decisions involved. They also feel that provision of Gypsy and Traveller sites. Does the hon. the local authority has little control over them. This Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) agree that, in cases problem manifests itself in different ways. Sometimes it where there might be perceived discrimination, a local is about garden developments. I have seen the nature of authority should be encouraged to address certain needs villages in my constituency change as a result of houses or achieve certain targets and, if it failed, it should be being crammed into every possible part of the village, required to do so? often in people’s gardens. However, local people find that the biggest handicap they face in dealing with the Philip Davies: To be perfectly honest, I am not sure matter is not the local authority, which is often sympathetic that I would, because my experience of things like to their concerns. Gypsy sites is that they are often a menace in local The problem is often that the sites are designated as areas. I believe that it is incumbent on local agencies— brownfield sites, rather than greenfield sites, and that whether it be the police, local authorities or whatever—to the planning laws are stacked against those who object do something about it when these problems arise. Far to the proposals. A local authority might decide that a too often, local authorities feel powerless to do anything piece of land forms an important part of the green belt, about them because—whether they need to or not—they or that it is of local significance and should be left hide behind the fact that they have all these responsibilities alone, only to have a planning inspector overrule that that they cannot do anything about. That gives a bad decision and put the area into a development plan deal to local people and it is not very good for local against the wishes not only of the local people but of democracy. the local authority. The land is then developed even I think that issues around Gypsy sites are very much though no one in the local area wants that to happen. local issues that should be dealt with by local authorities. Such decisions should be made at local level. I do not think that it should be farmed out to a central I listened with interest to the intervention by the hon. Government who might well be imposing something on Member for Leicester, South (Sir Peter Soulsby), who local people that they do not want and should not have was a distinguished local government leader. I certainly to put up with. Let us not pussyfoot around this. I know respect his experience in these matters, but I am not sure from my experience that some Gypsy sites have caused that I entirely agree with the premise of his argument. massive problems to local residents and local businesses, He suggested that these matters often had to be decided and I think local authorities have a duty to deal with at a higher level because local authorities were full of those things. They should not pass them up to anyone else. 363 Regional and Local Government3 JUNE 2009 Regional and Local Government 364

[Philip Davies] thing of all in their local community, which is deciding the level and appropriateness of housing developments I do not want to speak for long. I just want to touch in local areas. I think that the Government really have on regional government because I think this is the issue to accept that, whether it be a regional development that is now making people extremely concerned. We agency or a regional assembly, people do not want these now often have local government being trumped by great regions. regional government, particularly in relation to planning, The RDAs are spending huge quantities of taxpayers’ where we have seen regional assemblies dictating to money. Yorkshire Forward, the Yorkshire version, has a local authorities how many houses should be built in budget of something like £330 million a year to spend. their area, which to my mind should be a very local Who is it accountable to? Nobody. Who is it elected by? decision. It should have nothing to do with an unelected, Nobody. If it has any accountability at all, it is to the unaccountable Government quango, which should not regional Minister. Therefore, we end up with the terrible be able to dictate to an elected local authority how situation in which it becomes the personal fiefdom of many houses should be built in the area. The local the regional Minister and pursues their pet projects, authority should decide that, based on the needs of the which are probably based more on political expediency local community, what it can take and the infrastructure than on the good of the region as a whole. In the implications. Far too often, these decisions are made modern day, that is no way to allocate hundreds of and local people feel powerless to do anything about millions of pounds of public money. them because of the very nature of regional government. We know how unpopular regional government is because, to their credit, the Government offered the Sir Peter Soulsby: The hon. Gentleman makes a people of the north-east a referendum on regional powerful case for the accountability of the regional government, and the people of the north-east, who are development agencies, and one that has been accepted a very proud people—it is a very proud region, as are on both sides of the House; indeed, it was accepted by Yorkshire and Cornwall—clearly did not want regional the Modernisation Committee when it made the government. They made that abundantly clear. It seems recommendation for Regional Select Committees. The to me that the lesson the Government took from the logic of his argument is that he and Members of the north-east referendum was a perverse one because they other minority parties ought to end their boycott of seem to have decided that because the people of the Regional Select Committees and come and join us in north-east did not want an elected regional assembly, holding regional development agencies to account and they must want an unelected regional assembly. It seems filling the accountability gap that certainly exists. to me that only this Government could come to that particular conclusion based on the result of the referendum. Philip Davies: If the hon. Gentleman thinks the solution What was abundantly clear to everybody else—apart, it is Regional Select Committees, he misunderstands the seems, from the Government—was that the people were problem. The problem is that these people are getting trying to say that they did not want regional government huge amounts of money, and it could be done far more in any shape or form and that they wanted the powers democratically. Being hauled over the coals once or to be decided at a local level. Regional government has twice a year by a Regional Select Committee does not far too much power; it is unelected and unaccountable. make regional development agencies democratic. That The Government’s late response to all this has been does not fill the democratic deficit. The solution is far to abolish regional assemblies, which I absolutely and more fundamental: to scrap regional government once wholeheartedly support. They should never have been and for all. Nobody wants it—it is a huge Government set up in the first place, but, to give credit where credit is quango and bureaucracy. It would be good to have due, the Government decided to abolish them. What more local power. did they then do? Did they give these powers to the local My final point is on funding. Many Members on authorities and say, “We realise that regional government both sides of the House feel that capping council tax is not what people want; it should be decided at a local increases denies local accountability. Many take the level”? No. What they did was give these planning view that that should be a local decision, and if people powers to regional development agencies. want to vote for a council that puts up council tax by 10 It is difficult to think of a worse outcome than per cent., so be it. A council can stand or fall by that regional assemblies, but the Government have managed decision at the next local election. I have a lot of to stumble across what is perhaps the only one that sympathy for that view of localness. could be worse. To speak up for regional assemblies, I However, we cannot forget one important aspect: must say that, at least, they had people on them; they how things are paid for. My concern about going hell were not elected to that particular role, but they were for leather for total localness relates to how local government elected in some form or other—they were probably is paid for. If not everybody pays council tax, there is a council leaders and things like that so they had at least democratic problem. People might easily vote for high- some democratic accountability. The Government have spending local authorities knowing they will never have actually replaced the regional assemblies with the only to pick up the tab. The only way to have a free-for-all in body it is possible to think of with even less legitimacy— which local authorities can put up council tax by as regional development agencies. The problem is not solved; much as they want, is to have a system in which everybody to my mind, it has got even worse. pays something. At least they are then in a position to Until we have the courage of our convictions and decide whether they want to vote for the increase. But if give these powers to democratically elected people locally, council tax is put up, and the people voting for it are not people will always feel that they are powerless to do paying it, there is a democratic problem. We should anything about what is probably the most important consider how to make local government totally accountable 365 Regional and Local Government3 JUNE 2009 Regional and Local Government 366 by having everyone contribute something towards it. Keen historians will know—as will the hon. Member That would make people much more responsive to what for St. Ives, who has been a Member of Parliament is going on in their local authority. since 1997—that since that year local authorities have I hope the Minister accepts that people are sick to the gained significant powers, responsibilities and financial back teeth of local government not having the powers freedoms from central Government to enable further they want it to have. Central Government interfere far devolution of decision making to local communities. I too much in local decisions. Trusting local authorities could not but agree with the opening observation by the to make decisions for their local community would be hon. Member for Shipley that one of the reasons for good not just for local areas, but for local government, central Government’s nervous relationship with local as it would attract higher-calibre people who felt that authorities might be a result of their different politics. their decisions would make a difference, and for central He will recall that one of the justifications given by a Government, as they would not be interfering in matters former Prime Minister—I am going back four Prime they should not be dealing with. They could then Ministers—for abolishing the Greater London council concentrate on sorting out the problems they should be was her affection for the then leader of the GLC. The dealing with. hon. Gentleman made a fair point, but I think that even he would have to accept that over the past 12 years an 6.29 pm attempt has been made to reverse some of the removal of power that took place during the preceding period. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Key legislation over the past decade has brought Communities and Local Government (Mr. Sadiq Khan): about a new relationship between central and local Tempting as it is to spend the time responding to the government and between local government and local interesting contribution of the hon. Member for Shipley people. I shall say more about that shortly. It has led to (Philip Davies), I will try my best to respond to the a marked shift in the culture in local authorities, featuring 21-page essay, which I read late into this morning, and a much stronger focus on performance management the 43-minute speech of the hon. Member for St. Ives and effective leadership on delivery. In particular—as (Andrew George). If there is time, I will then respond to the hon. Gentleman will know—the 2006 local government the interesting points made by the hon. Member for White Paper signalled devolution of power from Whitehall Shipley. to town halls, and from local authorities to local I congratulate the hon. Member for St. Ives on securing communities in England. It set out ways of giving local the debate. I was pleased that the House’s other business authorities and their partners more freedom and powers finished early, as it allowed the interventions and to meet the needs of their citizens and communities, contributions of other hon. Members to be heard, and and to enable those citizens and communities themselves it gave him the flexibility to make his speech in a to play their part in bringing about the changes they tempered and serious manner. I am pleased that he wanted. The hon. Member for Shipley mentioned some continues to show a keen interest in matters relating to of the key changes produced by the Local Government the balance of powers between central and local and Public Involvement in Health Act 2007 following government, and that the hon. Member for Shipley and the White Paper. my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, South (Sir The hon. Member for St. Ives spoke of the “control Peter Soulsby) also contributed to the debate. The freakery” involved in a referendum that can lead to a enthusiasm of the hon. Member for St. Ives for discussions negative vote. He will, of course, recall the vote in Wales on this topic knows no bounds, and I was delighted to which led to a Welsh Assembly, the vote in Scotland observe from his request for the debate that his membership which led to the Scottish Parliament, and the vote in of the Select Committee on Communities and Local London which led to a Greater London Assembly and a Government had further fuelled his appetite. Mayor of London. It is not always the case that local The hon. Gentleman quoted extracts from the Select people vote against the regions in referendums. Committee’s recent report on the balance of powers between central and local government. I welcome his Andrew George: The point I was making was that, for work and that of other members of the Committee. As example in Scotland, the drive for the establishment of he will know, we published an immediate response to the Scottish Parliament was the result of the constitutional the report. A detailed response will be produced in the convention which was established there. It was driven not-too-distant future, but he will appreciate that for from Scotland. I congratulate the Government on what constitutional reasons none of the comments that I they did in enabling that devolution, but the dynamics shall make today should be taken as a formal response. of the way it happened were different from those of the Let me put into context some of the relationships north-east referendum. between local and central Government before dealing with some of the points raised in his “essay”, as the Mr. Khan: The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. I hon. Member for St. Ives called it. The Government am sure he would concede that there was also a Welsh strongly believe that local authorities are best placed to experience and a London experience. know what their communities need. I was a councillor On the relationship between local and central for 12 years. I am aware of the work done by my hon. Government, we cannot escape the issue of finance. In Friend the Member for Leicester, South in this context, 2007, my right hon. Friend the Minister for Local and my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Chris Government announced the first ever three-year local Mole), the Whip, has been a distinguished council government finance settlement, which has given local leader as well. The Government know of the huge government an extra £8.9 billion in comprehensive spending contribution made by local authorities, which is why we review 2007 and the flexibility to make longer-term have taken unprecedented steps to put much more plans and investments. That has been preserved in the power into the hands of local government. recent Budget. 367 Regional and Local Government3 JUNE 2009 Regional and Local Government 368

[Mr. Khan] They recognise that one size does not fit all and that locally delivered services must reflect what it is that The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the lack of local people need most. He will accept that no two ring-fencing and the flexibility that local authorities agreements are exactly the same, because every area has have in relation to the money given to them by central different needs. I am sure he would welcome the fact Government. More than £3 billion of funding paid that the new comprehensive area assessment, launched through the completely unring-fenced area-based grant in April 2009, will be fair, rigorous and independent. It enables local authorities, working with partners, to decide will help to ensure that local authorities and other where best to invest their resources in the most effective service providers deliver the quality of services that and efficient routes to deliver local priorities. local residents need. There will be less bureaucracy for service providers themselves to deal with, which will Sir Peter Soulsby: My hon. Friend rightly draws leave them free to concentrate on delivering results and attention to the greater certainty that has been given on driving up standards. Up to £185 million has been made local government finance and the other measures that available to regional improvement and efficiency have been taken, which I think have been broadly partnerships—RIEPs. The hon. Member for Shipley welcomed in local government, but does he not accept referred to his love for RDAs, but he forgot to refer to that an unhealthily high proportion of local government his love for RIEPs. They work with local authorities funding still comes from central Government, and the and strategic partners in each region to support inevitable feeling is that the person who pays the piper improvement and efficiency in the delivery of services. seeks to call the tune? The hon. Member for St. Ives will recognise that in this recession RIEPs and RDAs have played a huge role in Mr. Khan: My hon. Friend would have a fair point if helping to rebuild those parts of our country that were the money given to local authorities were ring-fenced not helped in previous recessions. In those days, such and controlled from central Government, who decided was the control from Whitehall that there was not as how the money was spent. He will be aware of the much connection as there now is with local communities. number of representations that we in central Government RIEPs and RDAs have also brought inward investment receive from citizens complaining about their local authority, from Europe and have created other revenue streams which is often of a different political persuasion, not that do not come from Whitehall. spending money where we would like it spent. Instead, they build up their coffers for a swingeing council tax Andrew George: I certainly look forward to a day cut before an election. They do not use it as the Government when there is a performance framework set by local would prefer. We recognise that we must let go, and let government for central Government, so that local local people choose their local council and local councillors government can see whether government is devolved. decide how the money is spent. In terms of delivering the devolved settlement and We are committed to maximising the flexibility given giving powers to local authorities, would the Government to local areas through unring-fenced funding with no be prepared to look at establishing in legislation the performance or reporting conditions attached. So European charter of local self-government? Putting Government have already given councils more financial that on a statutory basis would demonstrate a real freedom to meet local needs and local priorities, but it is commitment to supporting local government. Also, might right that we continue to protect council tax payers it be possible to work with other Departments such as from excessive increases. The hon. Member for Shipley the Department of Health to make sure that the fracture had huge sympathy for those authorities that complain between the NHS, the local community and social care that they are unable to increase council tax by a is overcome by locally elected people? I am sure the disproportionately high figure for fear of being capped. Government have it in their power to deliver those We have no plans to change the current structure of things. council tax or to introduce a local income tax. To do so would create significant costs and place new burdens on Mr. Khan: The problems articulated by the hon. businesses in these tough economic times. Gentleman are referred to in detail in the Select Committee The hon. Members for St. Ives and for Shipley alluded report. I will not succumb to the temptation to give the to the local performance framework. The Government Department’s response to it, except to say that the have taken important steps to show a clear commitment report was clear about some of the things we can do to to, and recognition of, the important roles that local make government more joined up and to ensure that government and its partners play in delivering services there can be a basis for filling in the gaps to which he to citizens, through the development and implementation has referred. I am sure our formal response will take on of the new local performance framework. In 2008, we board some of the points he has made in the debate, as introduced major changes in the way national Government, well as those referred to in the report. local authorities and local service providers work in RIEPs are made up of local authorities—locally elected partnership to deliver better services to improve the councillors—working with partners, and they are committed quality of life for local people. Those changes are all to working together to raise performance collectively. about finding out what local people need most, prioritising They will work closely with the sector to co-ordinate an those needs and taking action to deliver results. It is analysis of regional improvement and efficiency-capacity about empowering residents and making sure that their building needs. needs are the driving force behind change. I want to talk briefly about regional powers. Multi-area The hon. Member for St. Ives sits on the Select agreements are one of the key tools to enable local Committee. He referred to the local area agreements, authorities, working beyond their traditional boundaries, which cover all 152 upper-tier local authorities in England. to deliver key economic outcomes better and faster. Ten 369 Regional and Local Government3 JUNE 2009 Regional and Local Government 370 partnerships of local authorities have so far signed made the serious point that, notwithstanding his objection, multi-area agreements, with further negotiations under he wants to ensure that it is a success, and it is important way. that that is recognised. The future is relevant not only because of the context The vision that the hon. Gentleman set out in his of today’s debate, but because of the Local Democracy, essay was for a Cornish regional assembly; he described Economic Development and Construction Bill, which it as “an ambitious plan”. The people of Cornwall is currently going through this House and which began clearly feel strongly about certain issues: they believe its life in the House of Lords. Despite the progress we that Cornwall should act as an exemplar for environmental have made over the past 12 years, we recognise there is a best practice—the hon. Gentleman mentioned that in need for further reform. Therefore, the White Paper I his speech; they advocate social justice, with locally have referred to was published, which passes real power focused housing and transport plans; and they want into the hands of local citizens and communities, giving multi-area agreements to be developed. All those issues greater control and influence to more people. Key ways can be explored further in the context of the new in which this White Paper gives greater substance to unitary authority, and we stand ready to provide continuing councillors’ community leadership role include the support to achieve success in those areas. As he notes, following: the new duty to promote democracy; extending the advent of a unitary Cornwall marks a jumping-off the duty to involve people in decisions, policies and point for further local empowerment. I agree that it is services to additional agencies and bodies; a new duty important that we look towards the future and fully to respond to petitions; and creating a new “empowering utilising the powers available to the new Cornwall council. the frontline taskforce” to look at the role of the public I have dealt with the points made about the north-east service work force in empowering users and residents. A referendum. The hon. Gentleman also referred to the practical example of how we have encouraged the passing agents of vision within central Government. I hope that of power into the hands of citizens and communities is he will accept that over the past 12 years there has been the considerable growth of participatory budgeting, a genuine attempt by this Government to give more which now gives people a say over budgets in at least 55 power away. He will see that, notwithstanding the local area agreement areas—that is 36 per cent. of imperfections that any Bill has, the Local Democracy, them. Since 2005, local people—and not just elected Economic Development and Construction Bill is another councillors—have been given a direct say over how at example of devolving power to the citizen and turning least £14 million-worth of local public budgets have what were previously subjects into active citizens who been spent. have more control over their communities. I have a problem with the hon. Member for Shipley, Philip Davies: Could the Minister comment on matters which is that when I was the Parliamentary Private such as local transport? In my constituency, the local Secretary to the Leader of the House I found myself residents and the local council want to do something agreeing with him far too often for the liking of any about a congested area, Saltaire roundabout, but they Labour Member. He began his contribution by discussing cannot get the funding because it is determined by an some of the tensions between central and local government unelected regional transport board? Could not these when two different political parties are involved, and I powers be handed down to local authorities, so that could not help but agree. He also demanded that there local people could have a better say in how money is be more power for local authorities, which surprised spent? At the moment, with the regional transport me, bearing in mind the fact that his party voted against board, they feel that they have no say. giving that Bill, which will give such power to those authorities, a Second Reading. I hope that he will be on Mr. Khan: That argument contradicts the point that the Committee and will support the Bill there. He also the hon. Gentleman made in his speech, but local referred to development on brownfield sites, and that authorities could let go of some of their moneys to also caused me concern because, as my hon. Friend the local communities and let them decide how to spend it. Member for Leicester, South reminded me, one cannot This is not simply about the local councils bidding for have it both ways and be against development on greenfield money from the RDAs, the RIEPs, the Government or and brownfield land—development must take place elsewhere, as they should carry on doing; it is also about somewhere. local authorities being given record sums from central On the point that the hon. Member for Shipley made Government over the past 12 years. Local authorities about Gypsy sites, he was in danger of confusing could let go of some of that money, as it is not ring-fenced, unauthorised encampments and developments with and allow local communities to decide how it is spent. authorised Traveller and Gypsy sites. The hon. Member The hon. Gentleman’s example demonstrates why local for St. Ives, in a very responsible way, talked about the authorities cannot always work by themselves to get the need for more authorised sites, because the more authorised solutions; they will need to work with other local authorities, sites there are, there less likely there are to be tensions which is why a regional tier of government might sometimes between the settled communities and those Travellers be one of the solutions to the problems that he highlights. and Gypsies who live on the unauthorised encampments or developments. He accepted the role that regional I shall not revisit the order of last year; I have read tiers could play in easing some of the tensions between some of the debates in Hansard and found them interesting. local authorities that might not want an authorised I note the objection of the hon. Member for St. Ives to Traveller or Gypsy site on their patch. that order. He will be aware—he referred to this when discussing tomorrow’s elections—that Cornwall underwent In conclusion, I would say that a great deal has been a major step change when the seven councils were done to get the balance right between central and local replaced with a single unitary Cornwall council. He government. I forgot to mention the question raised by 371 Regional and Local Government3 JUNE 2009 Regional and Local Government 372

[Mr. Khan] We are at a crucial stage of our relationship. The economic times we face will test us all, but local government the hon. Member for St. Ives about the Henry Spink and its partners need to grasp this chance and the Foundation. There are national standards of care. I was opportunities that we have given them to show us—and, at a meeting today in relation to a social care Green most importantly, local residents—what they can achieve Paper, and the hon. Gentleman referred to the Sustainable by working closely together. Communities Act 2007. May I take this subject away I hope that through the matters I have outlined in my and write to him to deal specifically with the points that speech, I have enabled the hon. Member for St. Ives to he raised? I will refer to Hansard to ensure that I get the agree that the Government have done a lot to devolve point right, and I will get back to him. powers to local areas, including Cornwall and the Isles The Government have already given a lot to local of Scilly. I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing government, including greater financial freedom and this Adjournment debate and on his interest in this stability and a drastic reduction in the number of indicators, important area. targets and assessments. We have established a clearer, Question put and agreed to. more transparent relationship between central and local government, allowing policy development through 6.51 pm co-design. Long may this continue. House adjourned. 67WH 3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 68WH

The franchising system that the Government introduced Westminster Hall is good for those companies when the economy is booming, and they have raked in immense profits during Wednesday 3 June 2009 that period at the expense of taxpayers and the fares and charges on passengers. However, in an economic downturn, the franchising system is enabling those [HUGH BAYLEY in the Chair] companies to pass back virtually all the risk to the public purse and the travelling public. Rail Industry The rail industry could and should be one sector of Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting the economy that is readily usable to increase demand be now adjourned.—(Steve McCabe.) and stimulate the economy. It should be usable as an investment tool for counter-recessionary measures through 9.30 am which public investment, particularly in the modernisation of the railway system infrastructure, could protect jobs, John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): I stimulate demand in the economy and assist in driving sought this debate because the economic recession is the economy out of recession. Rail could be used to set hitting the rail industry hard. Despite Government the Government firmly on the path of meeting climate efforts to develop long-term infrastructure investment change targets, as well as being part of our overall plans and the exhilarating tour of the rail system by “greening the economy”policy. However, the Government Lord Adonis, most commentators are now reporting a have handed over to private profiteers effective control rail industry in crisis. The falling demand in the economy of the system. Private operators have made their profits is resulting in a falling demand for rail services—both and passed on their high dividends to their shareholders passenger and freight. The drying up of revenue resources in the good times, and now, having milked the system or income is leading to cuts in jobs and services and the for all it is worth, they are passing back the liabilities curtailment of some potential investment. There is a and problems to the Government and the travelling concern among many in the industry that unless the public. crisis is addressed, we could be going into a spiral of decline for the long term. David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): Some commentators this week have suggested there is My hon. Friend is referring to the counter-cyclical evidence that the recession is bottoming out. I have potential for investment in rail infrastructure and also serious doubts about that, particularly given the analysis in the rolling stock. Four months ago, the Secretary of of the US economy. However, if we look at the Left State announced that the £7.5 billion contract for the Economics Advisory Panel’s analysis of the evidence of replacement of high-speed trains should go to the Agility the 1990s recession, we see that even though the rail consortium, which has two possible sites in North-West industry was hit hard at the bottom of that recession, Leicestershire. Does my hon. Friend agree that the passenger numbers still fell for three years after the Secretary of State was unable to be absolutely clear economy reached its lowest point. The evidence suggests about the make-up of the 12,500 UK jobs that were that for the rail industry, although there is a potential said to be preserved or created by the award of that crisis at the moment, worse is yet to come both for the contract? Perhaps the Minister will give us a bit more rail and the underground. flesh on the bones of that announcement. Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on bringing this issue to the House. I John McDonnell: Many of us hope that the planned am sure we all agree that investment in rail infrastructure rail industry investment will protect jobs and stimulate would help us to climb out of recovery, and that we job growth. We need to be very particular about how should take that opportunity. Such a strategy would that investment is developed so that jobs are created, also help to tackle some of the very serious problems and created in this country as well. However, there is a such as the overcrowding on, among others, the lack of specific commitment, which has led to fears that c2c Fenchurch Street Line into London, which is becoming a lot of the investment will not stimulate or protect jobs intolerable and is a major safety issue. There are many in this country. Workers in the industry, passengers and reasons why we should make more investment in rail taxpayers are now paying for the new recession within infrastructure and rolling stock. rail. John McDonnell: I shall come later to the impact on I should like to outline how the rail recession is passengers, but I agree that overcrowding is a key issue. impacting on jobs. In recent months, we have had 7,000 Some of the figures that we are identifying on particular job cuts in the rail sector, London Underground and lines are staggering in terms of the impact of some of Transport for London. Let me put on the record some the cutbacks, and of the overcrowding problems that of those job cuts. We have seen 750 jobs go at the passengers experience. National Express group across East Anglia and the east The recession is not just impacting on jobs and coast franchises. Network Rail, which is deferring 28 per services; it is exposing the inherent and disastrous failings cent. of rail renewals, says 800 jobs are at risk. Workers of the privatised railway system based upon the franchising at other maintenance companies may also be in jeopardy mechanism that the Government created, which, in because of the proposed withdrawal of track machine turn, has created a dependency of the railway sector contracts by Network Rail itself. and the railway companies on the Government and the travelling public. That dependency has created extensive Mr. Edward Timpson (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con): I public subsidy for what some would consider fairly congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this extremely rapacious profiteering by private companies themselves. important debate. On recent job losses in the railway 69WH Rail Industry3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 70WH

[Mr. Edward Timpson] the deferral of some of the works, but has been denied them. We do not want to return to the days of Hatfield, industry, is he also aware that a fifth of the jobs at the Potters Bar or Greyrigg. Bombardier plant in Crewe have been lost since December? There are concerns about the impact further down Bombardier was one of the bidders for the Hitachi the supply chain. On train manufacturing, as has been contract. Does he agree that if the Government are said, Bombardier in Crewe is proposing that 86 staff be going to help with the continued investment in jobs in made redundant, on top of the job losses at Washwood the railway industry, the future contracts that are up for Heath, Eastleigh and Derby. The company is now saying tender, including the Thameslink contract, should give that a number of its existing contracts will come to an credence to the position that Bombardier is currently in? end by the end of 2009. It is critical when contracts are being considered and developed to have some understanding John McDonnell: I certainly concur with the hon. of the impact on jobs in this country and the possible Gentleman’s remarks, and I will come on to issues loss of expertise and skills if contracts are not awarded relating to the supply chain later. to companies such as Bombardier, which has skills that Let me run through some of the other job losses. have been built up over generations of developing our Some 530 jobs are to go at the UK’s main freight train infrastructure and manufacturing for the needs of operator DB Schenker, which was formerly English, our industry. Concerns have been expressed across the Welsh and Scottish Railway Ltd, and it looks as though House that the Bombardier situation has not been there may be further significant job losses there as a helped by the award of the contract for the new super result of Network Rail’s announcements. Some 480 jobs express trains for the east coast main line and First are to go at South West Trains, including a large number Great Western to Hitachi in Japan. of ticket office and platform staff, 300 jobs are to go at On London Underground, the objective of saving Southeastern, 162 jobs at East Midlands Trains, 40 jobs £2.4 billion announced by Mayor Johnson in November at First ScotRail, 30 track welders at Amey, 37 signal 2008 has been achieved mainly through large-scale job and telecoms jobs at Colas Rail, and 86 jobs at Bombardier. losses and the scrapping of projects. Up to 3,000 jobs Those have already been announced but tragically, more could be at risk, and the Mayor has moved to compulsory are to follow. There has been a proposed cut in ticket redundancies and the tearing up of some existing union office opening times at First Capital Connect, which agreements. That has provoked strike ballots, which has put 20 posts at risk. On top of that, 1,000 jobs are have come in at five to one in favour of strike action to potentially at risk at London Underground and, as a demonstrate the strength of feeling of London result of some of the Mayor’s announcements, some Underground and TfL workers. The unions are seeking 2,000 jobs are to go at Transport for London. That has negotiations with the Mayor to examine the way forward had a significant impact on the rail industry itself. Hon. to protect jobs and ensure that services are maintained. Members can understand why we have received reports There is no better example than London Underground from those on the front line of this industry that the of the recession combined with the privatisation proposals sector is in crisis. of past years producing a toxic cocktail of policy failures. Freight has been affected as well as passenger services. The Government’s public-private partnership on the We are told that the 530 jobs at DB Schenker that I underground will go down as a memorial to the Prime listed could be just the first announcement. In the Minister’s bloody-minded refusal to listen to expert words of the company, there are further jobs at significant warnings about the privatisation mechanism that has potential risk. There are also rumours of jobs at risk at been used. It is a monument to dogmatic incompetence. Freightliner. However, the demand for freight has held London MPs went through the experience of Metronet, fairly steady—Network Rail said that there has been which milked Londoners for £800,000 a week in profits only a 0.5 per cent. drop. It seems that a number of before it went under. The contract had to be brought companies are using this opportunity to shed labour back in-house, with a resulting £2 billion debt legacy. and reorganise, and there are sometimes threats to tear We are now told that Tube Lines, which in the past few up union agreements. years has been making £1 million a week in profits, is in Network Rail’s decision to defer 28 per cent. of rail jeopardy because its estimate of its work on the contract renewals work, which includes the laying of new tracks it was awarded has left a £2.1 billion funding gap. and new signals, means, in the assessment of the unions Again, the private sector has failed and the public involved, that 200 miles of track work has been put on sector must pick up the tab as administration looms for hold. That is 1,000 jobs at risk. The company admits in that company. its business plan that that will have consequences further It is ironic that the system that was imposed on down the supply chain. It has estimated that 20 to London Underground is now being imposed on Tyne 30 per cent. fewer heavy materials—for example, from and Wear Metro. The £300 million of investment that quarrying and steel production—will be demanded over the Government have promised will be delivered only if the coming year as a result of the deferral of the work. the company’s services are put out to market testing. In That runs counter to everything that the Government effect, it is threatened with privatisation despite the are seeking to do in investing in the long term, and in opposition of local Members. In surveys, members of infrastructure to stimulate demand in the industry and, the public have demonstrated their absolute opposition of course, in the economy overall. to private sector involvement in the system, in opposition I am the convenor of the National Union of Rail, to local authorities in the area. Maritime and Transport Workers parliamentary group. That is the impact of the recession on jobs in the rail We have received reports from members expressing sector, and it is a devastating appraisal of what is their fears about the impact on health and safety. The happening to those people on whom we have relied to union has asked Network Rail for risk assessments of deliver our rail system. The impact is not only on 71WH Rail Industry3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 72WH workers, but on passengers, who are paying for the crisis Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North) (Lab): My hon. Friend through high fares. They are paying because of a makes a powerful point. My daughter-in-law used to combination of the recession and the privatised franchising travel regularly on the train from Cambridge. When she system. British commuters pay twice as much as those was pregnant, she had to sit on the floor. That is what is in all other leading European countries to travel the happening. Does he agree that the railway industry is same distance. Annual season tickets for journeys of sweating the assets to maximise profits and ignoring between 11 and 25 miles cost an average of £1,860 in passenger comfort? Britain, compared with £990 in France, £944 in Germany and £788 in Spain—Italy has the cheapest season tickets John McDonnell: That has been a consistent process at £444—yet our fares are still going up. In January in the privatised system and particularly in these franchises. 2009, average regulated and unregulated rail ticket prices Companies can maximise their profits by increasing increased by 6 and 7 per cent. respectively. Arriva fares and gaining public subsidy, while not rewarding CrossCountry, which will receive public subsidy in excess the passengers with sufficient improvements in services. of £1 billion over the course of its franchise term, raised unregulated fares by an average of 11 per cent. Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): I am listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman’s speech. Does he agree Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) (Lab): My hon. with the Public Accounts Committee that it is the Friend makes a very strong point. Does he agree that Government who do not consider the damaging side one of the problems is the excessively complicated effects on passengers of the rail franchising process and nature of the fare structures in Britain, which means that that process is causing the problem? that travellers who have to travel at short notice because of a special commitment often pay ludicrously high John McDonnell: I will come on to the rail franchising fares? That does not happen in almost any other country process because it is at the root of the system. That in Europe. relates to this Government’s dogmatic commitment to privatisation, which the hon. Gentleman’s party probably John McDonnell: Time and again the Transport shares. Committee has referred to the complicated fare system Another issue passengers face is delays. I am sure that and the discrimination against passengers who have no hon. Members will exemplify that with what is happening access to the internet, where they might be able to make in their areas. We all remember the delays on First savings by advanced booking. There have even been Great Western that produced a passenger strike only increases recently in the prices of special arrangements 18 months ago. There were demonstrations in which for savings, such as the young persons and family and passengers refused to pay their fares because of the friends railcards—on 18 May, there was a 50 per cent. company’s failure to deliver services on time. increase. There have been front-line staff reductions. There are Other concessions have also been hit, which I find regular reports of ticket office closures. There are fewer extraordinary. Members of the armed services face the platform staff, which increases people’s fear of a lack of same increase in the minimum fare using Her Majesty’s safety. There are reductions in catering facilities. This forces railcard. Pensioners have had the price of their week, I heard about the scheme companies have come railcards increased by 8 per cent. recently. The minimum up with for shorter trains, which beggars belief. cost of using a network card, which offers discounts on journeys in London and the south-east, has risen by The service is no longer based on responding to nearly a third. The card now costs £25 a year, which is a passenger needs. The public service ethos that existed in 25 per cent. increase on last year’s price. Passengers as British Rail has gone as a result of franchising and well as workers are getting it in the neck. privatisation. The service is concerned not with passenger needs, but with cost cutting to maximise profits. That is Hidden, stealth charges have also been introduced. a failure of franchising. At the heart of the crisis is the For example, we found that one franchise—National privatised franchising system. There is profiteering by Express east coast—has introduced a booking fee of converting fare increases and subsidies into profits and £2.50. That was condemned by local passenger groups. dividend payments for shareholders. That has occurred Mr. Ashwin Kumar, a director of Passenger Focus, even up to the edge and into the current economic crisis. said: In December 2008, the RMT published research showing “Charging passengers to reserve a seat beggars belief, this is that the big five transport operators were converting another example of back door fare rises. Some of National Express’s routes cover extremely long journeys, cost considerable above inflation fare increases into profits and dividend amounts of money and passengers expect that a seat is covered in payments of between 10 and 33 per cent. Arriva’s this ticket price.” operating profit to 30 June 2008 was £14.8 million. The dividend payment was 10 per cent. First Group’s operating Recently, people have been paying more, but have profits to September last year were £48.3 million. The increasingly received a poorer service. interim dividends were 10 per cent., with £55 million Overcrowding has been mentioned. According to paid out in 2007. Go-Ahead’s operating profits in the Department for Transport figures, 70 people stand for 12 months to September were £77.2 million and the every one who sits on Southern and South Eastern. dividends paid out were £48 million. In the six months I feel sorry for people who travel on the most overcrowded to June last year, National Express’s operating profits train in the country, the 7.15 from Cambridge to King’s were £28 million and the dividends paid out £40 million. Cross, which carries an average of 870 passengers, but Stagecoach’s operating profits to October last year were has only 494 seats. That sounds like the Chamber of the £31.7 million, with a 33 per cent. increase in dividends House of Commons. paid out to shareholders. 73WH Rail Industry3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 74WH

[John McDonnell] Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): As my hon. Friend knows, I dealt with the Minister’s predecessor on Interestingly, the franchises are now floundering. The the First Great Western’s yellow card. Speaking of Government attempted to increase some form of control franchises, it would be useful to have it on the record over the profiteering by introducing premium payments whether that yellow card has been expended by First into the franchises. There had to be a level of repayment Great Western. Has it met its side of the bargain? Talk to the Government, but that was calculated using extremely about irony! It is as if a premier league striker has been bullish passenger usage figures. Many of us—people fined for misdemeanours and the Football Association inside the industry and outside commentators—warned is paying the fine. It would be useful to know whether at the time that the bullish passenger growth predictions the Government are paying First Great Western’s fine were not likely, particularly with the threat of recession. for its yellow card for all it did wrong two years ago. It It is on the record in the trade and financial press that seems that the Government have to pay, yet again. the Government were warned by the RMT that any downturn would jeopardise the premium payments. That is exactly what happened. John McDonnell: My hon. Friend and I have discussed First Great Western’s yellow card and how it has been The situation has been made worse by the bizarre monitored with successive Ministers with responsibility cap-and-collar arrangements introduced into the franchises. for rail. Many hon. Members have been involved in financial arrangements in the public or private sector. I was chair My point is that the franchises want to have it all of the Greater London council finance committee and ways. They want profits in the good times, but when the have worked in the private sector. I have never seen franchises become too expensive, they want Government contracts like these entered into before by the public subsidies or to hand it back and negotiate management sector or others. The agreements offer protection to the contracts. I am bitter about National Express laying off private sector by committing taxpayers’money to part-fund 750 workers on the East Anglia and east coast lines. We any shortfall if the revenues fail to reach levels also know that, in April, Stagecoach went into dispute predetermined in the franchise negotiations. Basically, with the Department for Transport over its support that means that even if the private sector does not make payment system, and the case has now gone to arbitration. the scale of profits it wants, the Government have to Again, it is arguing that there will be an operating loss if intervene to subsidise it. That is an extraordinary agreement the arbitration is not resolved in its favour. On 13 May, to enter into. As hon. Members across the Chamber First Group announced increases in its rail division of have said, this is about privatising the profits while the £2.1 billion and an operating profit of £94.2 million, risk is nationalised. but at the same time its managing director was reassuring shareholders not to worry because the company was It has been reported that private sector franchise accepting taxpayers’ subsidies to maintain other franchises agreements in many areas are falling apart at the seams. in operation. This is the economics of the madhouse, The franchisee operators are coming to the Government and it is time to stand back. for further support and are trying to renegotiate the franchises. In some instances, there is talk of handing The Government recognise that they will have to back the keys. The best example is the east coast line. In intervene. We are aware of that because the DFT recently various meetings, Ministers have categorically denied advertised on its public tenders website for consultants that they are renegotiating the franchise or offering a to ensure “continuity of train services” and, if necessary, management contract to the National Express Group run a rail franchise on the Government’s behalf. If they that runs it. However, the National Express Group has are admitting in adverts that they will have to intervene made it public that it is in talks with the Government in some instances, we need to ensure that there is a about the repayment terms, which it describes as too statement to the House about how they plan to do that, onerous. On the day when National Express Group especially where, when and how. announced that publicly, its shares shot up by 17 per cent. and by 29 per cent. the next day. I know that other hon. Members want to speak, so I shall end on these points. It is time for the Government, and indeed all of us, to stand back and have a rethink. Norman Baker (Lewes) (LD): On that point, I received We need to turn this rail crisis into an opportunity. We a written answer from the Minister on 8 May about need to move away from the dogmatic obsession with press speculation on the replacement of a franchise by a privatisation and franchising arrangements. I cannot fixed-fee agreement for National Express on the east understand why the Government are refusing to consider coast. When asked what his policy was, he replied: other options, particularly a public sector option or “Operating agreements with train operating companies may be role. Like a number of hon. Members present, I have considered when appropriate to discharge the Department for been asking questions about how existing franchises are Transport’s duty to ensure continuity of rail services.”—[Official assessed and whether there could be a public sector Report, 8 May 2009; Vol. 492, c. 488W.] benchmark or evaluation, such as a value-for-money That appears to be an acknowledgment that a franchise assessment of alternatives in the public sector as against can be replaced by a fixed-fee agreement. Is that the the private sector. When Connex was taken into the hon. Gentleman’s interpretation of that answer? public sector and lost its south-east franchise, it was run successfully by the public sector for two years. A number of us argued then that we should step back from the John McDonnell: That is my understanding of it. We dogma and keep at least one franchise in the public need more openness and transparency on what is happening sector that could be a benchmark against private sector in the negotiations that are taking place with a number operators, but what did the Government do? They of franchisees. reprivatised it. 75WH Rail Industry3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 76WH

Kelvin Hopkins: I agree absolutely with my hon. I grew up with a railway line at the bottom of my Friend. However, I understand that behind the scenes, garden and then went off to study transportation very secretly, serious consideration is being given to engineering at Napier polytechnic—now Napier taking the east coast main line in-house. Other franchises university—in Edinburgh. As I come from Edinburgh, are in similar difficulties, so we could move in that a key part of the railway industry that strikes me as direction. Does he agree that we should urge the being important is the Forth rail bridge, which was Government to move rapidly in that direction? opened in 1890 and on which 4,000 workers worked. We need to see whether we can revitalise our rail industry, John McDonnell: I am not party to those discussions, because much of its rolling stock and other supplies are but the way that resignations have been going in the no longer from this country. We have an opportunity to past couple of days, my hon. Friend may be party to move forward to high-speed rail, as other countries them sooner than he thinks. have. We need to make sure not only that that high-speed There is an inevitability about this. For the first time rail is good for the environment, but that it stimulates in perhaps three decades we can start having a rational the economy throughout the land and provides the debate about the future of rail as part of an integrated shovel-ready jobs that have been mentioned. We could transport system that is free from the dogma of get the construction, civil engineering and railway industries privatisation, and that goes back to what works best. I working together to produce jobs immediately and to urge the Government to launch that rational approach stimulate the economy. as franchises go into crisis and to consider using the When this country was growing, 100 years ago, the public sector and testing that option. I urge them to rail industry played a key part in that growth by improving accept that there might be an opportunity on at least transport links, but when we jump on to today, what do one franchise to use the public sector option as a we see? We see opportunities for high-speed rail, with benchmark for others. the Eurostar link taking passengers away from more polluting forms of transport such as air travel. We The travelling public have had enough of the greed could extend the high-speed railway network throughout and profiteering. We have gone past the days when the the UK, but I fear that opportunity has been largely market could be said always to offer the optimum missed because there has been a lack of clear vision solution to every area of policy. We need an end to cuts from the Government. Many other countries have grasped in jobs and services, and we need an improvement in the that vision; there are new high-speed rail links in China, long-term investment plan, but it has to be based on a Russia, Brazil, India, Poland and Argentina, but what public service ethos that overrides short-term profiteering. do we have in the UK? We have very little. I urge the Minister to take back the message that we all want a rational debate about the future of rail. We want There are a whole range of reasons for having high-speed to use the current failures as an opportunity for future rail, although I shall not spend too much time talking successes. It is time to move away from dogma and get about them. One is the reduced impact on the environment to grips with the reality of what workers in the railway of having high-speed rail links from cities such as my industry are experiencing with job losses and what own, Edinburgh, from where 60 per cent. of flights go passengers are experiencing with fare increases and to other UK cities, causing a high level of pollution. reductions in service delivery. We must consider the Many of those flights come here to London, where potential for the sector to tackle the recession overall, to there are protests about the need for a third runway at be part of the stimulus of demand, and to introduce an Heathrow airport. If we had a decent high-speed rail integrated transport policy that will help to tackle climate link, many people would decide not to fly, because they change. That could make a major contribution to could jump on the train and it would take only a few rehabilitating political debate across the parties, and to hours to travel the length of the country. In other having a reasoned and rational debate on such an countries, there is clear evidence that where there are important area of policy. alternative high-speed rail journeys of three or four hours, people will happily move from the air to the railways. A good example of that is the Madrid to Hugh Bayley (in the Chair): I intend to start the Barcelona line in Spain, which was opened in 2008, wind-ups at 10.30 am. Three hon. Members are trying bringing massive benefits. Previously, trains had made to catch my eye, so they will have about eight minutes up 15 per cent. of all journeys, but they now make up each. more than 50 per cent. That was one of the busiest aviation routes in the world, but it has been overtaken by trains. 10.5 am The opportunities are certainly there, but there is John Barrett (Edinburgh, West) (LD): I thank the another reason why high-speed rail has a wider opportunity hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) at a time when we are looking at constitutional reform for securing the debate on this serious issue, which in the UK. There has been a push from the Scottish affects people from the north to the south, and from the National party and separatist parties to say that that is east to the west. He has detailed the job losses and other the way forward. A high-speed rail system would actually problems in the rail industry, which has been suffering a unite the parties, as it is uniting the regions of Spain. severe recession, but there is also an opportunity to High-speed rail will not come from the south of England move out of the crisis in the industry. One way out of to Edinburgh if there is a separate Scotland, so it is the recession is to make sure that the UK rail industry another reason to tie the country together. plays a key part in that recovery, and I shall touch on a There are opportunities in the UK not only for few places where such opportunities could be grasped high-speed rail, but for light rail. In Edinburgh a tram by this Government, or whomever is in government in installation programme is in progress and massive the years ahead. investment is being made. I have seen the mock-up of 77WH Rail Industry3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 78WH

[John Barrett] work and how they would not work. He explained how the specifications were drawn up by Network Rail and the tram and it looks great, and very efficient, but what given to the contractors, who would then work precisely has happened on the ground? The tram contract has to those specifications because that is what they were been awarded to a Spanish firm. Undoubtedly it will required to do and because they would be fined if they produce high quality trams, as it is the same company did not do so, even when the specifications were wrong. that produced the trains for the Heathrow Express. The If the work was done incorrectly over a weekend session, company that has been given the design, construction by the Monday morning it would be inspected and and maintenance contracts, the Bilfinger Berger and found to be wrong. The work would then have to be Siemens group, is not a local company, and although it done again with another specification and the contractor is no doubt efficient, it would have been good if we had would say, “Thank you very much”, having doubled its had the infrastructure in this country to provide the money and got twice as much work. That, of course, construction, maintenance and rolling stock and look meant more delays and interruptions to services. forward to the future. Contracting, subcontracting and sub-subcontracting In Edinburgh we have had job losses as a result of the creates interfaces, all of which mean costs—interfaces recession, as the biggest single employer in the city is the always mean costs. British Rail, when in operation, was financial sector. The largest employer in Edinburgh, an integrated system with directly employed staff, so HBOS, is based in my constituency, and there have been such interfaces did not exist, and if they did they were many redundancies, but at the same time inward investment minor, internal and easily overcome. British Rail employed in Edinburgh is happening. Companies that are pulling staff directly, worked under cash limits and corrected back from investments elsewhere have said that they are engineering work as it went along. It did not have the going to Edinburgh because it will have an improved contracting chaos we have seen under Railtrack and transport infrastructure in the years ahead. High quality Network Rail. It is not surprising, therefore, that when public transport is absolutely vital. Providing a good everything is taken into account, track renewal costs are quality transport system locally and then a high-speed five times higher then they were before privatisation. rail system nationally will not only provide the jobs for No wonder costs are out of hand. the future, but ensure that our economy is in a fit I am sure that the Minister has seen the book, “Britain’s position to take advantage of opportunities when we Railways, 1997-2005” by the academic Terry Gourvish, come out of the recession. which was commissioned by the Strategic Rail Authority. I have kept my remarks brief to allow other Members It is a matter-of-fact book showing that total support to speak. Edinburgh plays a key part, and not only for the railway industry between 1996-97 and 2006-07 because there are many local trainspotters—indeed, the increased fivefold, from just over £1 billion to £5.5 billion. book “Trainspotting” was based in Edinburgh—and That was simply putting money in private pockets, because the Forth railway bridge is there. I would like although I accept that some of it accounted for extra the rail industry to play a key part in getting us out of work. Maintenance has been taken in-house, but even the recession with the opportunities that are there for that has not improved as much as it should have because the future. of the continuation of practices similar to those that grew up under the privatised contracting system. 10.12 am I am short of time and so will omit references to the Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North) (Lab): I congratulate train operating companies, as my hon. Friend the Member my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington for Hayes and Harlington dealt with that effectively. (John McDonnell) on securing the debate and on his However, I will say that Virgin has recently complained expert and detailed analysis, with which I entirely agree. that punctuality on the west coast main line is still as I speak as a dedicated lover and supporter of the bad as it was when work to the tracks was being railway industry, who has commuted by rail daily for undertaken and has not improved, so the TOCs are still the past 40 years. The railways are important to me and, unhappy with the quality of what Network Rail is more importantly, to Britain’s future because they are providing. the future mode of transport, especially in an era of Network Rail has had a good financial settlement energy difficulties and diminishing oil. from the Government, but at the same time it is cutting We are now seeing the beginning of the end of the back on renewals and sacking staff. In my view, and that mad, Dr. Strangelove experiment called railway of many others, that is evidence of financial incompetence. privatisation. It has cost vast sums of money, does not Do those in Network Rail deserve their huge salaries work for passengers or taxpayers and was always utterly and bonuses? I think not: they are thoroughly undeserved. misguided. It has simply put vast sums of money into Indeed, the Prime Minister, when talking about MPs’ private pockets to very little benefit. The first stage in expenses at the weekend, said he wants to apply the that decline was the collapse of Railtrack, which I same rigour to executives in the BBC and the NHS, understand had a neon sign in the foyer of its building “etc.” I suggest that the biggest component of that showing its share price: that is how much it cared about “etc.” should be Network Rail. We should not reward it railway safety and comfort and the future of passengers. for failure. Network Rail took over from Railtrack and effectively Valuable staff are being made redundant—often the brought the network into public ownership, but its experienced staff trained by British Rail, and sometimes behaviour and methods continued many of the bad because they get in the way when they want to do things private sector practices. right, are fussy and have a sense of commitment to Shortly after the creation of Network Rail I attended doing the job well. Network Rail wants people who do a waterfront conference addressed by its then deputy the job quickly, cheaply and not well. Those staff being chief executive, who showed how the contracts would sacked are being defended by their unions at great 79WH Rail Industry3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 80WH expense, but Network Rail pays large sums of money to Mr. Drew: Does my hon. Friend accept that we were stop cases going to tribunal at the last minute when it is almost at a critical stage some years ago because of a obvious that it will lose. That was detailed in a previous lack of railway engineers? That is one way in which Adjournment debate by my hon. Friend the Member privatisation has completely undermined the basic for Livingston (Mr. Devine). infrastructure of the industry. There is no better example The whole edifice of privatisation is crumbling, and I than the lack of railway engineers. believe that it is time to recreate the integrated, publicly- owned railway industry and save vast sums of public Jeremy Corbyn: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. money, and passengers’ money, into the bargain. Five The hon. Member for Edinburgh, West (John Barrett) years ago the then Secretary of State for Transport, and my hon. Friend the Member for Luton, North now the Chancellor of the Exchequer, said the lack of (Kelvin Hopkins) pointed out that we have a shortage investment had been compounded by ill-thought-out of manufacturing capacity in this country to produce privatisation, producing fragmentation, excessive trams, railway carriages, locomotives and many other complication and dysfunctionality. I think that is a things. If people go around the world and look at any function of privatisation and of the way it has operated. old railway, they will see that most of the stuff is Two years ago I had the pleasure of meeting British-made—most of it by Westinghouse or others, Dr. Mehdorn, the former chairman of Deutsche and any of the older trains, including the high-speed Bundesbahn, the German state railways. An impressive trains in this country, by British Rail Engineering. It man with a strong and forceful character, he lives in a was an act of political dogma by the then Government castle and has weightlifting as a hobby. He was extremely to destroy British Rail Engineering. We lost the forceful in his absolute opposition to being forced into manufacturing capacity that went with it, in the same privatisation on the British model. He said it would be a way that bus and other manufacturing capacities were disaster if DB was fragmented in the way British Rail damaged in favour of a money economy rather than a had been. He is no longer the chairman, but the Germans manufacturing economy. We are paying the price for have decided, very sensibly, not to privatise DB but to that. keep it in the public sector. In a recession, investment in public transport I recently met some colleagues from the former rail infrastructure is of double importance. It protects jobs freight company English, Welsh and Scottish Railway and the industries themselves, but it also provides a and mentioned that it had been nationalised. They good public transport and freight transport system for responded, “Oh no it hasn’t.” I replied that it was now the future. Therefore, I appeal to the Government not owned by German state railways. It is all very well being just to maintain but to increase investment in the rail owned by German state railways, but I suggest that we network. should take the British railway network back into British There is limited time, so, as a London MP, I shall state ownership and operate our railways the way the raise a few specific points concerning London and its sensible continentals operate theirs. needs. London relies heavily on public transport. Indeed, public transport usage in London is at a very high level. The former Mayor and, before that, the Greater London 10.19 am council and Transport for London tried hard to invest Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) (Lab): I welcome in improving the bus and underground networks and, this debate, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the more latterly, the overground rail network. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) My hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington on securing it, and on the good work that he does in was right to point out the utter madness at the time chairing the RMT group, consistently taking up railway- when Mayor Livingstone wanted to refurbish the related issues and pointing out the failure of the privatisation underground system. The then Chancellor of the Exchequer, model. currently the Prime Minister, insisted that the whole In reality, British Rail, which was nationalised after business be done through a public-private partnership. the second world war, had a good record in trying to We thus had two companies set up—Tube Lines and protect a social railway, despite the best efforts of Metronet—to undertake the refurbishment of various Dr. Beeching. BR was always underfunded and under- parts of the underground. Metronet famously finally resourced for research and development. It was privatised went under and had to be taken over by TfL, and the on the basis that it was costing too much money. The staff were taken over as well. Thankfully, some of their then Tory Government said that they wanted a self-sufficient working conditions have improved as a result. railway, but, shortly into privatisation, the amount of However, Tube Lines is still part of the public-private public money going into the railway system was actually partnership. London Underground is paying it £5.1 billion greater than at any time during nationalisation. for the refurbishment work that it is doing, but it is We now pay far more money to private companies to demanding £7.2 billion. Who will pay the £2.1 billion run the railway system than we ever paid when it was shortfall? My view is that if Tube Lines cannot do the publicly owned, and we have closed off from ourselves work for the money that it contracted to do it for—if it the possible benefits of any profitability coming from is not capable of doing the work on schedule, on time the railways. It is, frankly, a ludicrous system. and to the satisfaction of TfL—it should simply be My hon. Friend pointed out the dogma attached to taken over. The work should be taken in-house by TfL, the privatisation. I believe that he would agree that and the conditions and jobs of the workers guaranteed. surely now, of all times, it is time to end that dogmatic There is one particular group of workers that I want nonsense and have a fully publicly owned, publicly to draw attention to in this rail debate, short as it is. accountable and publicly run railway service in this Those are the people, mainly women, who clean the country. underground stations. Under Mayor Livingstone and, 81WH Rail Industry3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 82WH

[Jeremy Corbyn] Park station, which is one of the busiest suburban, or semi-surburban, interchange stations for the east coast to his credit, continued by Mayor Johnson, all Greater main line, the Moorgate to Hertford line, the Victoria London authority employees enjoy the London living line and the Piccadilly line. It is a very busy but very wage, which is higher than the national minimum wage out-of-date station. It is impossible for anyone with any to reflect the higher costs of living in London. Former kind of walking difficulties or anyone using a pram, a Metronet employees, particularly the cleaners, now receive pushchair or anything like that to access the station. It a London living wage, thanks to the actions taken by is a dreadful station in terms of step-free access. their unions and by the administration itself. Mayor Livingstone had a plan to introduce a completely Tube Lines cleaners work for the national minimum step-free access arrangement for the whole station. It wage in disgusting, dangerous conditions, for a company has since been postponed or cancelled by Mayor Johnson, with appalling management practices. Workers are harassed, but Network Rail, to its credit, has said that it will and great pressure is put on them. Many of them have introduce step-free access from the street to the mainline no security of employment—as I understand it, almost platforms that are above ground level. However, TfL from day to day, never mind from week to week—under will not introduce a lift service from the street level to the company’s antediluvian management practices. the underground platforms. We have the ludicrous situation I appeal to the Government to look into the employment of a lift going halfway through the station. We can get of those contract cleaners, to insist that they receive the from the mainline platforms to the street, but we cannot London living wage and to insist that management get to the underground, yet most of the journeys that practices be brought up to date for the 21st century. We require an interchange involve going between a mainline must show respect for those people. They do a filthy, platform and the underground. horrible job. They clean up all the crap that is left on the As I said, the situation is ludicrous. It will probably trains and in the stations every day, and we should end up costing double the amount to deal with the thank them for it and pay and reward them properly for matter at some future point. Will the Minister be kind so doing. enough to intervene and knock heads together on the I wish briefly to raise two other points concerning step-free access programme—I understand that there is London. One is about the electrification proposals for a window of opportunity of a very few months to get some of the London overground lines. The north London this sorted out—so that when the work starts, it can be network goes from Stratford to Richmond; the Barking for the whole station, not just half? That might sound to Gospel Oak line is attached to it. The Stratford to slightly localised and arcane, but it is very important as Richmond line is electrified and is a busy line indeed. It a message that the Government are serious about disability is doing extremely well but needs to do even better. It access at all stations around the country and are prepared needs more trains, better signalling and better service, to intervene where necessary to ensure that that is and it is heavily used. provided. The Barking to Gospel Oak line was once due for closure. Apparently, a previous Conservative Transport 10.30 am Secretary looked over a bridge on the Holloway road, Norman Baker (Lewes) (LD): I congratulate the hon. found that there was a railway under it and wondered Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) why it was not a road. We then went through the and his Labour colleagues on presenting a common miserable experience of protecting the line from closure philosophical approach to the future of the railways. I and, fortunately, were successful. The line is now much somehow doubt that it will be shared by the Minister busier and more effective. Indeed, it is now suffering when he responds, but we will doubtless find out. I from overcrowding because it is so successful. That is a congratulate the Minister on not being derailed and still line that was due to be closed less than 20 years ago. being in office at this point. I hope that he is still there There are proposals to electrify the line. Seventy- next week—a lot can happen in a couple of days. five per cent. of the benefit of electrification would go On the effect of the recession on the railways, I shall to freight usage, because a much easier freight corridor concentrate predominantly on the issue of franchises, from the east coast to the west coast of England would which has been picked up by Labour Members. The be opened up. Currently, electrified trains can bring Treasury’s policy has been to try to reduce the call on freight in from the east coast ports of Felixstowe and the public purse of running the railways—rather belatedly, Harwich, but they have to use diesel locomotives along given the huge increase that there was with Railtrack the Barking to Gospel Oak line. The cost of electrification and other post-privatisation calamities. However, the of the line is £40 million, of which £25 million has consequence of the method that the Treasury has adopted apparently already been earmarked by the Government. to try to reduce the call on the public purse has not been I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm that. in the best interests of the railways or their passengers, There is a £15 million gap, which is not very much, be they people or freight users. given the huge benefits that could be achieved by that Essentially, the policy of driving up income means piece of electrification. My hon. Friend the Member for that the Government are very vulnerable when a recession Leyton and Wanstead (Harry Cohen) and I have put comes upon the industry. Suddenly, train companies are down an early-day motion on the matter. I would be unable or unwilling to meet the costs of the reduction in grateful if the Minister could confirm that the Government income that they experience as a consequence of diminishing actively support that electrification programme. passenger or freight usage of the railways. That is a My final point concerns the relationship between the serious matter. It is leading to losses in individual Government and TfL on station improvements and companies, to job losses, as the hon. Member for Hayes management schemes. My constituency includes Finsbury and Harlington rightly said, and to passengers suffering. 83WH Rail Industry3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 84WH

Companies are considering where they can make cuts to is not simply a financial measurement. In our view, a services that are not governed by specific franchise 30-year franchise with a five-year renewal checkpoint agreements, so we are seeing cuts in booking-office would be a sensible arrangement whereby if the passenger- hours, cuts in the number of staff on trains and cuts in derived, passenger-oriented targets were met, the franchise catering services, most famously on the east coast main would be retained; if they were not met, the franchise line. National Express appears to be adopting a policy would be taken away. That gives a train operating of presenting bleeding stumps to the Government in the company a direct incentive to meet passenger objectives. hope that they will bail it out. I hope that the Government will not be seduced by that rather ludicrous tactic. National Express’s customer base is being damaged by Kelvin Hopkins: Would it not mean that the franchisees how it is approaching the matter. would just refuse to accept arrangements that would make the franchises too onerous, and if in time they What happens if a franchise fails? We have yet to became too onerous, would not the franchisees just receive a clear answer from the Government on that. I come to Government for more handouts? Would it not am asking the Minister, although I am not particularly be just like the commitment that we have made to hopeful, to give us a clear answer today on the issue. private finance initiative schemes, which will cost the Lord Adonis, for whom I have a great deal of time and taxpayer billions of pounds over the 30 years? respect, has said repeatedly that the Government will not allow renegotiations of franchises. That appears to be the Government’s stated position, but the parliamentary Norman Baker: I am seeing a Treasury Minister in answer that I referred to appeared to hold out the 45 minutes’ time about a PFI arrangement that has prospect of a train franchise being replaced by a fixed-fee gone ludicrously wrong in my constituency; it relates to operating agreement. In other words, National Express a waste contract. On the hon. Gentleman’s question, or some such company could hand in the franchise but no, it depends on the line that the Government take. could carry on running the franchise under a new The Government could say to the train companies, financial arrangement. That is in effect a new train “These are the rules. These are the criteria you have to franchise—a replacement for the existing one. I therefore meet. These are the passenger targets you have to meet.” need to ask the Minister this point-blank: are the If they want to walk away from that, let them walk away Government considering fixed-fee agreements for train and there can be a return to the public sector. That operating companies as part of existing franchise means that the Government would be involved in a bit arrangements, or are they not? What is the role of a of hardnosed negotiation with those companies. It would fixed-fee agreement? If the Minister could make that not simply be five companies giving people the runaround; clear, that would be very helpful. there would be an alternative, which is a public sector interest test. That is the line that I would advise the My view on the franchise agreements is clear. The Government to take. Government should play hardball with the companies. They entered into a financial agreement and should be The question of fares is very important. The Government made to stick to it. If a company hands in a franchise, have a policy of RPI plus 1 per cent. That was reinforced any other franchise held by it should be handed in or by Lord Adonis on 25 February when he said that the taken away from it at the same time. Indeed, I would go Government stood by the RPI plus 1 per cent. formula. further, and this is where the hon. Member for Hayes However, rail fares in recent years have increased and Harlington may be surprised, but pleasantly, I enormously above inflation. Since the Government came hope. In my view, if a franchise is handed in to the to power, the cost of travelling by train has gone up by Government—handed back—it should be held in the 7 per cent. above inflation, while the cost of travelling public sector as a public interest franchise, not least as a by car has fallen by 13 per cent. As a motorist myself, I comparator for other franchise agreements currently say to motorists that they should not moan about fuel operating. That was the case partly with South Eastern, prices. They are doing better under the current Government when the Connex franchise was handed in. than train and bus passengers. Train and bus passengers are the ones who should be out protesting. They are the However, I am not talking about a comparator simply ones who have seen the price increase. in traditional Treasury terms. We need to consider what we are trying to get from franchises. A public interest RPI plus 1 per cent. makes no sense in a Government franchise would allow us to recast what we expect from policy designed to tackle climate change. If we want to the railway. It is not simply a matter of pounds, shillings tackle climate change, we have to persuade people to and pence, which is how the Treasury looks at these use lower-carbon means of transport. It means getting matters. We need to consider passenger targets for people on to buses and trains, although they are being franchise holders. What do the passengers want? That is priced above inflation, and it means getting people off not necessarily the same as the financial outcome that roads and certainly out of the air, although that means the Treasury demands of train operating companies of travel is being reduced in price. That cannot make that are successful in franchise bids. If we had a passenger- any sense. What will the Government do to co-ordinate based franchise, that would enable people to make not their climate change strategy with their transport strategy, only a financial comparison but a passenger delivery which is producing the opposite result to the one that comparison, which would be useful in driving up they ostensibly say they want? This year, we could have performance throughout the railway industry. frozen rail fares instead of forcing them up. We could have done that by cancelling 4 miles of motorway Having said that—this is where the hon. Gentleman widening. That would have paid for all rail fares to have will disagree with me—I believe that there is a case for been frozen this year, but the Government want 4 miles significantly longer franchises but, crucially, with new of motorway widening instead. I know which one the passenger-based targets included in them so that there public at large would choose if they were given the option. 85WH Rail Industry3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 86WH

[Norman Baker] Government, and Ministers chose to take that 14th option. Where I start to disagree with the hon. Gentleman, It is very important, for climate change purposes, for however, is that Metronet’s failure was due not only to jobs and to tackle the recession, that we end up with the economic incompetence of Metronet, but at least continual and increased investment in railway infrastructure partly to the economic incompetence of Mayor Livingstone. projects. We could start with infill electrification. I am pleased that the Government have committed, or almost Jeremy Corbyn: The hon. Gentleman has made an committed, themselves to electrification of the midland extraordinary allegation against Mayor Livingstone. main line and the line down to Exeter. [Interruption.] He really should explain it to hon. Members or withdraw it. Well, the Minister can confirm that he is committed to that. I agree that infill electrification in particular has a Stephen Hammond: I am happy to explain it. It is role to play. Lines such as Barking to Gospel Oak are widely acknowledged that Metronet believed that it was crying out for investment in that regard. in a cost-plus contract and that Livingstone believed he We must also ensure that we invest in high-speed rail. was in a cost-inclusive contract, but neither side wished My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, West (John to test that point. There was economic incompetence on Barrett) made that point, and quite rightly, as Scotland both sides. must reap the benefits of the high-speed rail network as much as anywhere else in the country. I want to ask the Jeremy Corbyn: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Conservative spokesman, the hon. Member for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond), to confirm that the Conservative Stephen Hammond: No, I have given the hon. Gentleman Treasury team, not him and the hon. Member for his chance. Chipping Barnet (Mrs. Villiers), is committed to high-speed It is important to recognise that there has also been a rail investment and to Crossrail investment if the complete failure to acknowledge that the Government’s Conservatives take power. franchising process has given rise to a number of the issues that the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington Stephen Hammond: Will the hon. Gentleman give described and that they are not the fault of the TOCs. way? The Government are trying to rebalance the position between the fare payer and the taxpayer, and that is Norman Baker: The hon. Gentleman is on in a minute; their decision, but it is also one reason why fares are he can tell me in his response to the debate. Saying that going up. The Government’s over-specification of the his party has no plans to do anything else is no answer, franchises is another reason why we are seeing increased by the way—I want a firm commitment from him that job losses, because the specification of the contracts that investment will go ahead if there is a Conservative and the increasing premium payments have left franchisees Government. with no other options. Lastly, on Network Rail, there is the issue of efficiency. I was intrigued by the speech by the hon. Member for It takes five to eight hours to change a set of points in Luton, North (Kelvin Hopkins), who said with relief, if Switzerland, but 40 to 42 hours in the UK. Network I heard him correctly, that Network Rail had followed Rail has to do far more far more efficiently, and until it Railtrack and was effectively in public ownership. I am does, it is not right that its top management should sure that the irony was not lost on everybody when he receive massive bonuses. then went on more or less to rubbish the record of Network Rail, which, as he said, was effectively in public ownership. 10.40 am Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): There can be Kelvin Hopkins: I said that it carried on with many of no doubt that we are in a recession, and there is no Railtrack’s modes of operation. Instead of just being in doubt that the causes of that recession, like all recessions, public ownership, it should have operated as the equivalent are both international and domestic. I therefore congratulate body did under BR—as an integrated, properly publicly the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John owned industry. McDonnell) on calling this debate, which allows us to look at some of the domestic implications of the recession. Stephen Hammond: Indeed, but the hon. Gentleman I was pleased that I agreed with some of the points in did say with relief that Network Rail was effectively in the hon. Gentleman’s speech. His view that the recession public hands—that we can agree on. is unlikely to have bottomed out is certainly borne out Last month’s Budget from the then and, I guess, still by history. Recessions are not common, and nor are current Chancellor announced a squeeze on public quick recoveries from them. A return to trend growth spending between April 2011 and 2014, so the line that after the last quarter of negative growth usually takes at it is only the Labour party that ever invests is clearly least two years. It is therefore highly unlikely that we complete nonsense. Today’s debate gives the Minister will see a quick recovery or that the recession will have a the possibility, in the context of the recession, to put on small impact on the rail industry and other industries. the record a number of the implications of the Chancellor’s That is presumably why the Government acknowledged spending plans. in the Red Book that the current downturn is forecast to According to analysis by the independent Institute be much deeper than that of the 1990s. for Fiscal Studies, total investment spending will be cut I also agree—I think that the hon. Gentleman knows, by half across all Whitehall Departments to 2014. The although he did not mention this in his speech—that Treasury’s often optimistic forecasts predict that investment the PPP was the 14th of the 15 financing options that spending will fall by half by 2013. Even before the the then London Regional Transport presented to the proposed budget tightening, the IFS predicted that the 87WH Rail Industry3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 88WH

Department for Transport’s spending allocation would Stephen Hammond: I am sorry but I will not give way fall by 4 per cent. over the three years from 2011 to to the hon. Gentleman as I only have a minute left. 2013. Given that a quick recovery is unlikely, will the In the very short time left to me I want to concentrate Minister confirm the IFS numbers? In addition, the on franchises, because it is an issue that has been raised DFT will be forced to find its share of the Chancellor’s a number of times today. Is the Department for Transport announced £6 billion efficiency savings, which are going to stick to its mantra that it will not renegotiate independently estimated to represent 6 per cent. of franchises? If so, is the DFT, as the hon. Member for current expenditure. Lewes was going to say, prepared to offer fixed-fee Given that we are in a recession, which will clearly contracts? If it does take contracts back in-house, does impact on the railways, the Minister needs to answer a it intend to keep them in the public sector or to re-franchise number of questions this morning. What size will the them within six months? Finally, does the DFT recognise overall reduction in the DFT’s budget be as a result of that the much talked about cross-default option is, in the 2011-14 spending plans? What size will the resulting reality, not open to it, because if it takes the contract reduction in investment spending and current spending back in-house, that will not affect the holding company be? What is the Department’s judgment in terms of the level, so the cross-default option will not be available to balance between current and capital spending? Does it the Government? have any plans—this relates directly to the point made I note, unfortunately, that my time has run out, but I by the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker)—to hope that the Minister might answer at least some of review control period 4, which is being talked about in those detailed questions about the franchising process. the industrial press? Electrification has also been mentioned, and I want to ask about its future because it has been widely suggested in the rail industrial press that the 10.50 am rolling electrification programme is one of the programmes The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport that might, as the euphemism goes, be pushed to the (Paul Clark): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member right. The Government need to clarify those points, for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) on securing which are the direct implications of the Chancellor’s this debate. This issue is very important to the Government Budget for transport spending. in terms of ensuring that the railway system is sufficiently Another key question that the Government need to robust to meet the requirements of the travelling public answer today relates to the implications and problems and of the movement of goods through freight operations. beyond 2014. The Budget’s predictions suggest a major I will endeavour to cover as many of the points that decline in possible spending. Does the Minister realise have been raised as possible, but let me say first that that the Government’s spending proposals in the Budget some of the comments made and the views expressed have left considerable uncertainty across the rail industry? about the current railway system seem at odds with the Time is relatively short, but I want to put it on the reality. Out there, the reality is that more people are record that the Government’s focus is all wrong. The using rail services than at any time since the end of the Department has been working far too much on the second world war—since 1946, in fact. We have greater minutiae, such as details of timetables and train levels of investment, punctuality, reliability, service, safety specifications—on his trip, Lord Adonis even had a and operating rolling stock. Indeed, one of the pleasant chance to look at the restaurant car menus. Such things challenges that we face is dealing with the fact that we should be left to the industry. The Department needs to have great demand for railway services. Nevertheless, of concentrate its resources on the strategic direction. That course the economic downturn is going to affect the was picked up in a Public Accounts Committee report, railways, as it is affecting every other type of transport which said explicitly that the franchising process and other industries. “does not consider damaging side effects” It is interesting that the hon. Member for Wimbledon for customers. (Stephen Hammond) wants to discuss records of investment. If I am quoting him correctly, he said that it The Committee also said that the Government could is now “false” that only a Labour Government will have a major impact on procurement. I totally disagree invest. One only need go back to recessions of the 1980s with the way in which they are going about procurement. and 1990s to see that the railways are in a far better The Committee’s report states: position today than they were in those days. In 1982, the “promises of bringing 1,300 new rail carriages into service by railways were at their lowest point, with the lowest 2014 look over-optimistic.” number of passenger journeys, the lowest number of Analysis in answers to parliamentary questions to the passenger miles travelled and the lowest level of passenger Minister shows that only 973 of those carriages are revenue. The conclusion of the Administration at that likely to be extra carriages, and that the rest are part of time was to see what report could be introduced to try the Thameslink growth programme, which the Minister’s to delay the terminal decline of the railways. That predecessor rolled out. Administration came up with proposals that would I agree that shorter franchises and the whole franchising have seen wholesale line closures and the slashing of process bear a major part of the blame for what has route mileage by more than 80 per cent. happened. Longer franchises are at least part of the Fortunately for us today, that view did not prevail. remedy. Clearly, a number of passenger criteria, as well However, railways were still not invested in, and that as punctuality and service levels, will need to be set out remained the position when we came to the 1990s and a in the franchises. However, it is also clear that longer further recession, which meant further problems. It is franchises must be part of the answer. against that backdrop that we must view the situation. We then had a botched privatisation process, which Norman Baker: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? continued the legacy of under-investment. We have had 89WH Rail Industry3 JUNE 2009 Rail Industry 90WH

[Paul Clark] Having said that, however, there is the question of a management contract, if required. What happened with to deal with that legacy since 1997 in trying to deal with Great North Eastern Railway is on public record, and the problems on the railways. Now, we have had a there is nothing different in what I say now. There was a growing railway system for more than a decade, with management contract, and as I am sure hon. Members increasing performance, reliability and customer satisfaction. are well aware, under section 30 of the Railway Act However, there are still challenges to be met and they 1993, which was amended by the Railways Act 2005, must be met within this recession period. Of course, there is a requirement on the Secretary of State to that is why we have continued to invest—to ensure that operate as “operator of last resort” if need be. However, we have a robust railway system within the existing the issue is ensuring continuity of the services that are framework. That is also why we have announced £10 billion required. We see that as being the important point—making of investment to increase capacity for the next control sure that customers are put first when there are problems. period, for an extra 183 million passenger journeys It has been said that only in the bad times do we have between 2009 and 2014. Let us recognise the substantial to bail out the companies, while they reap all the investment that has been brought into the system by benefits in the good times. That is not how it works. In both private and public resources. fact, in the good times the taxpayer shares in any revenue increases, and in the downturn there is a Mr. Drew: I will not talk about Swindon and Camborne requirement for us to make up a percentage of the because I know that that is outside this debate. However, revenue gap. However, that provision applies only in the can the Minister confirm that that £10 billion is on last year of a four-year franchise. track? I apologise for the pun there. Obviously, that Opposition Members have talked about longer franchises. £10 billion is a key counter-cyclical factor in extending Having longer franchises would also mean having to the network, including opening up new lines and improving predict revenues over 15 to 20 years, which makes existing ones. matters extremely difficult. Paul Clark: The Government’s actions, such as bringing forward fiscal stimulus packages at the pre-Budget report John McDonnell: Will the Minister give way? to invest in public transport, including the railway programme, show our commitment to ensuring that that investment continues at this time. My hon. Friend Paul Clark: I will not give way. the Member for Islington, North (Jeremy Corbyn) said In addition, longer franchises would also raise further that it is at exactly this time that we should keep such questions about our ability to ensure that we hold investment going, and we would not disagree one iota operators to account over any difficulties. with that view. Actions speak louder than words, but we We recognise that the issue of fares, including getting have put on the record our commitment to bringing the balance right between the fare payer and the taxpayer, forward and continuing with investment to address the is absolutely critical. The hon. Member for Lewes quoted immediate issues relating to capacity on our railways. from what Lord Adonis said to the Transport Committee That is in contrast with the proposal of the hon. Member about sticking by the RPI plus 1 per cent. formula. Of for Tatton (Mr. Osborne), the shadow Chancellor, who course, Lord Adonis went on to confirm that we are would have lopped some £840 million off the transport going to take away the flexibility that allows regulated budget from April 2009. So we take no lessons about fares to increase by up to a further 5 per cent. Furthermore, investment— he said that, with negative RPI, we will expect rail operators to reduce their prices and not just freeze them Stephen Hammond: Will the Minister give way? from January 2010. Paul Clark: I will not give way because I only have There was a lot of speculation about what the scale of four minutes left and I want to cover some of the points job losses might be, and I recognise the issues that will that have been made. be faced. On investment and renewals, everyone is well I want to talk about the issue of franchises, which aware of Network Rail’s investment commitment. The was raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes package for 2009-10 is a very similar to that for 2008-09, and Harlington and the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman but it is designed to achieve improvement in productivity Baker). The hon. Gentleman asked whether we were by, for example, using modulus point sets so that we can going to play “hardball” with the operators to ensure get better turnaround. That is why there has been a that they deliver on their franchise requirements. That is re-profiling. our position exactly: we will ensure that the operators Other issues were raised that I would have liked to meet the franchise requirements. That is also why I say, deal with, but I was not given the time to respond. We as Lord Adonis has already said, that we are not in the continue to invest in the industry and we will continue game of renegotiating franchises. to invest for passengers. 91WH 3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services (Ealing and 92WH Southall) Stroke Services (Ealing and Southall) concerns about their ability to repatriate Ealing residents in a timely fashion if there is no stroke unit at Ealing hospital. If patients cannot be moved from the HASUs 11 am efficiently, the hospitals might have to close to new Mr. Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) (Lab): I am admissions and the London ambulance service would grateful for the opportunity to raise the important issue have to take patients to HASUs in other parts of London. of stroke services in my constituency of Ealing and The Healthcare for London consultation document Southall. I will come quickly to the point and say that states that the patient capacity currently supplied by my concerns centre on the recent Healthcare for London Ealing hospital is “not required”. Healthcare for London proposals for stroke services in London. If proceeded has indicated at recent meetings that final decisions on with, those proposals will result in the closure of Ealing capacity have not yet been made, and that designated hospital’s stroke unit. I hope today’s debate will give the stroke units will be asked to provide information on Minister good reason to get Healthcare for London to how many beds they will provide. I am concerned that think again about those proposals, and designate Ealing the current plans will not have the capacity to deal with hospital as a local stroke unit for patients to return to Ealing’s stroke patients. after treatment at a hyper-acute stroke unit. If there is no stroke unit at Ealing, that will have During the consultation on Healthcare for London’s serious implications for the running of other local services proposals that ended in early May this year, it became both in the hospital and the community. There are clear that there was significant local opposition to the specialist acute services and procedures available at closure of the unit. Many constituents, local health Ealing hospital trust that will be under threat if the practitioners, local councillors, clinicians and the hospital stroke unit is removed. Those include acute surgery and management contacted me with serious concerns about coronary angiography.Patients undergoing those procedures the impact of such a closure on the local community. Of have an increased risk of stroke, and the removal of an particular concern were the extra journey times that my on-site stroke unit means that if they suffer a stroke as a constituents would have to face both as patients and as complication of their treatment, optimal subsequent visiting relatives. That was because under the new proposals, management might be compromised. If a patient has a patients would be treated in the first instance at either stroke while in hospital, they will be unable to access Northwick Park or Charing Cross hyper-acute stroke immediate stroke care, which would significantly worsen units, or subsequently at Hillingdon or West Middlesex the outcome. They would have to be transferred away stroke unit, which I understand is in the Minister’s from Ealing for further management. Access to key constituency. therapists, such as speech and language therapists, The recent early-day motion that I sponsored highlighted physiotherapists and occupational therapists, will also the fact that 170 people died from strokes in Ealing in be impaired, as they will not be available on site. 2006-07. In the same year there were approximately I and many of my constituents are deeply concerned 1,600 admissions to hospital for stroke-related conditions, about the proposal to close the stroke unit at Ealing with admissions from wards in Southall running at hospital. I ask the Minister to work with Healthcare for twice the national level. There are 4,000 people in London to find a way to provide those services for my Ealing who have had a stroke at some time. constituents at their local hospital. The preferred option, It is well known that people of south Asian and which I believe is viable, would be to keep the stroke Afro-Caribbean origin have a higher incidence of stroke, unit open under the management of Ealing hospital. If and both those groups are well represented among my that is not possible, it is essential that a stroke unit is on constituents. The figures also show that the correlation the Ealing site under the management of one of the between age, ethnicity and the incidence of stroke is other designated stroke service providers. disproportionately high among south Asian, Afro- I am sure that there is a positive way forward on this Caribbean and other non-white ethnic groups, regarding vital issue for the health of my constituents and I ask people who have a stroke before the age of 60. Given the Minister to do all she can to help find a solution. I those figures and trends, it seems unwise not to have a thank the Minister for coming today and look forward stroke unit at Ealing hospital, which is geographically to her reply. positioned in the middle of my constituency. Stroke is a major killer in this country, disproportionately so among 11.9 am my constituents. Major improvements in the treatment of strokes have been made in recent years, and Ealing The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health hospital has invested in better facilities to treat stroke (Ann Keen): I congratulate my dear friend the hon. patients. The latest independent assessments of stroke Member for Ealing, Southall (Mr. Sharma) on securing services at Ealing hospital show that in the main categories this debate. It is also a particular pleasure to serve under of stroke treatment, it is in the top 25 per cent. of the your chairmanship this morning, Mr. Bayley. country. The hospital also stands ready to work with I know that for many years, even prior to his well-earned Healthcare for London to ensure that it can reach the election to Parliament, my hon. Friend has shown a highest standards that a designated stroke unit would great interest in the welfare of his local health services need to attain by 2011. and the future of stroke services at Ealing hospital. I If there is no stroke unit at Ealing, residents from commend the dedication with which he serves the needs Ealing and Southall will be sent from the hyper-acute of his constituents. stroke unit to Hillingdon or West Middlesex hospitals On average, someone suffers from a stroke every five for stroke unit care, even if they have had no previous minutes in England. There may be people in this room contact with those hospitals. The proposed HASUs at who have been touched by a stroke that affected either Charing Cross and Northwick Park have already expressed themselves or members of their family. Behind that 93WH Stroke Services (Ealing and 3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services (Ealing and 94WH Southall) Southall) [Ann Keen] Ann Keen: I do not have the exact figures for that area to hand, but if statistics are available I will certainly let unfortunate statistic, however, lies a terrific cost for the my hon. Friend have them. NHS. At any one time, a quarter of all long-term beds As I said, a joint committee of PCTs will make a are occupied by stroke patients. As those who care for decision on 20 July about the location of stroke units. their loved ones will testify, stroke survivors need long-term Under the PCTs’ preferred proposals, residents of Ealing care and attention. In my many years as a nurse, I and Southall suffering strokes will be taken to Charing worked with stroke survivors and know the importance Cross or Northwick Park hospitals for improved care. I of dedication and continual rehabilitation, with staff am told that that is the local PCT’s preferred choice. trying so hard to bring quality back to once active lives. The proposed locations of the HASUs will ensure that When sudden emergency hits, it is quite devastating—and every Londoner is within 30 minutes of getting the it affects not only the stroke sufferer but of course treatment that they need. The PCTs anticipate that both the family. Charing Cross and Northwick Park hospitals will also To universal acclaim, the need for long-term care was have stroke units. Depending on where they live, my recognised in the Department of Health’s 2007 national hon. Friend’s constituents will either remain at those stroke strategy. The strategy underlined the impossibility hospitals for ongoing care or be transferred to Hillingdon of furnishing every accident and emergency department or West Middlesex university hospitals. with a 24-hour stroke consultant service and open I must tell my hon. Friend that Ealing hospital did access to that all-important CT scanner. There simply not bid to offer hyper-acute stroke care. The trust are not enough people with the right skills to do it instead submitted an application to offer secondary and safely. The Royal College of Physicians and the National mini-stroke care. Bids were assessed by an independent Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence both agree. panel of stroke experts from outside London. The panel A and E is not the best place to treat stroke, and assessed each bid on its merits. Influenced directly by getting stroke patients directly to specialist units will the independent panel, the consultation proposals state put us in a position where more lives can be saved, that Ealing hospital should no longer provide acute which is what we want. Having worked in accident and stroke services. emergency, I know that it is exactly what it says; to have I know that it is important to my hon. Friend, so I people arriving after road accidents or particular traumas repeat that no decision has been taken to stop the at the same time as someone who is suspected of having commissioning of stroke services from Ealing hospital. had a stroke can result in neglect to the stroke patient. The recommendation was proposed in the consultation. Furthermore, the 2007 strategy document recommends We must wait for the PCTs’ decision in July, so it that stroke services are co-ordinated into networks, remains a possibility that Ealing hospital could continue supporting highly specialised centres of excellence. Networks to provide stroke services. Indeed, as we speak, the trust have proven to be highly effective in treating cancer and and the local PCT are developing a proposal for delivering heart disease, and we want to transfer and adapt that an effective, high-quality stroke service at Ealing hospital. knowledge into the stroke strategy. The service would be part of the wider pan-London I am sure my hon. Friend is aware that the NHS network. If that goal is achieved, the unit would have to responds to the national stroke strategy locally. NHS meet the stringent Healthcare for London quality standards. London is responsible for bringing stroke care for its The proposal is to inform the decision of the joint population into the 21st century.At the moment, treatment committee of PCTs in July. throughout London varies radically. Each year about Mr. Sharma: I thank the Minister for giving way 11,500 stroke victims are admitted to hospital in London, again. I accept that further reports and proposals will 16 per cent. of whom die as a result of their stroke. be coming from the PCT. How many locally based There are outstanding examples of good practice, but voluntary sector health organisations—what we call the we want to see them become the norm. third sector—have been consulted? How many local Consistent with national policy, the stroke strategy GPs have been consulted, and how many other patients’ for London, published in November 2008, recommended groups have been consulted on proposals for the future that patients should be treated within three hours of and the vision for the local PCT and the health area in having a stroke. To that end, stroke networks should my constituency? comprise three vital elements. On the front line, the hyper-acute stroke units—HASUs—will provide an Ann Keen: That point was very well made. I am sure immediate response, with a CT scan and the appropriate that the PCT and the chief executive will be able to drugs. Supporting stroke units will provide ongoing furnish my hon. Friend with answers. I am aware that care and rehabilitation. Services for the mini-stroke—the he has a good relationship with them and meets them transient ischaemic attack—will also provide rapid access regularly when working in his constituency. I feel confident to a specialist. that they will be able to inform him. A consultation on the location of these services ran Thanks to the standards being applied in London, from 30 January to 8 May this year, and a remarkable and regardless of the outcome of the joint committee’s 8,600 people responded. Taking account of those responses, decision, Ealing’s residents can expect to receive world-class a joint committee of primary care trusts will make a care if they have the misfortune to be affected by stroke. decision on 20 July about the location of stroke units On 1 April, PCTs began the phased implementation of across the whole of the capital. the NHS health check. The programme will cover everyone between the ages of 40 and 74, and it will asses the risk Mr. Sharma: I am aware that consultation took place of stroke, heart disease, kidney disease and diabetes. between January and the first week of May, but does Everyone will receive a personal assessment, setting out the Minister have the figures? How many from Ealing their level of risk and saying exactly what they can do to and Southall responded to the consultation? reduce it. 95WH Stroke Services (Ealing and 3 JUNE 2009 Stroke Services (Ealing and 96WH Southall) Southall) Members of the south Asian population in my hon. The plans that I have outlined today are built on an Friend’s constituency suffer strokes at a younger than outstanding dedication to the principle of patient and average age, and many still of working age. The statistics public involvement. More than 13,000 people visited are alarming. I know this from experience in my 46 health fairs held in the capital throughout the constituency, which is close to my hon. Friend’s. I consultation, and clinicians have been on hand to offer understand how important it is to get stroke victims out expert advice every step of the way. My hon. Friend’s of hospital and back to work and back to their families. local hospital, council and residents have all participated It is imperative that people in that age group have the fully in the consultation—a consultation that demonstrated highest quality care, should they have the misfortune to widespread support for the general principles of change. suffer a stroke, so that we do not waste working lives. As I said earlier, I shall try to provide him with the exact For the family, the emotional and financial consequences figures later. are high. Every one of my hon. Friend’s constituents A stroke is a medical emergency. The signs and will be within 30 minutes of that all-important hyper-acute symptoms of a heart attack are now very familiar to us stroke care. That speedy response will mean fewer people all, but stroke is an attack on the brain and its treatment having their working life and their retirement marred also requires expert advice, support and help as soon as by stroke. possible. A swell of good work has already begun to roll The consultation does not propose the closure of any out across the country. The number of under-75s dying A and E departments or any loss of staff. Ealing hospital from stroke has fallen by a third in the past 10 years, will continue to offer an extensive range of exceptional and although far from perfect, it is clear that a heroic facilities for local residents. I realise that the first priority effort has been made already by health professionals to for all Londoners is to ensure that they have access to save, and improve the quality of lives. high quality care, and NHS London is working closely In addition to extra funding to PCTs, the Department with the PCTs and other trusts involved to ensure of Health has guaranteed £105 million over the next enough beds and capacity for everyone. three years to train more staff and raise awareness. I am My hon. Friend raised the secondary, but still important, sure my hon. Friend will have seen the hard-hitting and concern about the time it takes for visitors to travel to successful FAST—face, arms, speech and time—campaign the hospital. Although the new proposals will inevitably launched this spring throughout the media. The campaign mean more travel for some, analysis has shown that highlights the need to check the person’s face immediately, average travel times will only increase from 31 to 42 minutes to check whether they can raise their arms and whether when travelling by public transport, and by three minutes their speech is affected and then, most vitally, to call when driving. I am not sure how those statistics were 999. When that call is made to the ambulance service, formulated, but I am sure he has as much faith in them the paramedics will then get that person to the appropriate asIdo. unit as safely and as quickly as possible in order to save their life and enhance the quality of life afterwards. Mr. Sharma: I live in the area. In my earlier days, I FAST will help public and professionals alike remember worked as a bus conductor there. I travel by public the symptoms and urgency of stroke. transport daily. I am familiar, therefore, with travelling times from the Southall area to Ealing hospital as well Stroke is the third biggest killer in this country, and as to Charing Cross and Northwick Park hospitals, the largest single cause of severe disability. Men of which are miles away from Southall. Traffic congestion south Asian origin and Bangladeshi and Pakistani women is a major problem in the area, and the reliability of have a disproportionately high chance of suffering from public transport causes concern among my constituents. a stroke, which is why stroke will remain at the top of They feel that the times will be longer than was expected the agenda for some time to come. I am sure that my and quoted in the consultation. hon. Friend will continue to champion and support health services, and in particular, stroke services within Ann Keen: My hon. Friend raises an interesting point his constituency. I know that he recently had a very about an area that I know very well too. Depending on positive meeting with the chief executive of Ealing PCT, what celebrations are taking place in Southall at the whose work, and that of his PCT team, I also congratulate. time, travelling through the area can take some considerable time, so I share some of his concerns. However, we must Mr. Sharma: I would like to take the opportunity to focus on the safety of patients when they arrive at thank Ealing PCT for campaigning on this issue. There hospital having had the misfortune to suffer a stroke. are sometimes differences of views, but generally I am They need the best expert care. I would like to continue very pleased with the services that it offers, so I am my reply in that fashion, and perhaps later we can have grateful for the Minister’s comments. a conversation about transport in Southall outside the Ann Keen: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Chamber. I urge my hon. Friend, however, not to be negative in The development of a high quality stroke service is a some of his remarks or to raise unnecessary fears about work in progress. Each stroke unit will be expected to the rest of the hospital and its staff, who are striving to achieve standards of excellence that London has not yet achieve excellence, as he recognised. I encourage him to experienced. We hope that the proposed improvements continue to engage with Ealing PCT and to fight for his to stroke services will save as many as 400 lives a year constituents, as he does so well. We must all continue to and save thousands more from serious disability. We improve stroke services for the benefit of his constituents should concentrate on those statistics. I saw them in and everyone else in the country. practice over many years as a health worker. The service throughout the whole of London will be greatly improved, 11.27 am which will benefit my hon. Friend’s constituents. Sitting suspended. 97WH 3 JUNE 2009 UK Aid (North Africa) 98WH

UK Aid (North Africa) Guinea-Bissau, through them and into Europe. They are also grappling with the terrible problem of terrorism and al-Qaeda. Mr. Dyer, our citizen, died as a result of 2.30 pm that activity. I am very sad for his family. Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): As we speak, President Obama is en route to Egypt. Thank you, Mr. Bayley, for calling me to speak in this He will make a major speech in Cairo tomorrow on the important and topical debate. At Prime Minister’s questions importance of the Arab world, and on the importance this afternoon, the Prime Minister gave his condolences that he attaches to American relations with Egypt and to the family of Mr. Dyer, who was killed in Mali. the Arab League. Interestingly, whereas we give Egypt Mr. Dyer, a British citizen, had been taken hostage on nothing, America gives it $1.5 billion a year. That is the Mali-Niger border and, regrettably, was killed by how seriously the Americans take Egypt. They understand al-Qaeda operatives. The Prime Minister said to the the strategic importance of the country and of dealing House—and I think that I am quoting him verbatim—“We with many of the issues that I have raised. That is why will be giving every possible assistance to the President Americans give Egypt so much assistance. of Mali in trying to fight al-Qaeda and to help that As you know, Mr. Bayley, we are overstretched. As country.” I find that rather ironic. It shows just how a country, we are borrowing billions of pounds, and good the Prime Minister is at spin because the reality is yet we can afford to give aid to China—more than the Government have completely slashed our aid to £50 million—and we give more than £800 million to north Africa. The House of Commons Library figures India. I do not see how we can justify expenditure in show that last year no money was spent on helping other parts of the world. China, for example, is a very north African countries. Therefore, although the Prime wealthy country: it has spent more than £20 billion on Minister stood up and told the nation that he would do hosting the Olympic games, it has one of the largest everything possible to help those countries, the reality—as armies in the world and a space programme. Yet we always with this Government—is that there is no substance cannot give any money to north African countries, behind what he said. which are of strategic importance to the United Kingdom I want to take the opportunity to challenge the whole and are grappling with such serious issues. thinking of the Department for International Development. I call on the Minister to assure me that aid to China In the past, challenging DFID was almost taboo. One will be stopped. The International Development Committee, was perceived as some sort of nutter, fanatic or extremist of which I am a member, has endorsed the Government’s if one dared to challenge the great DFID and how it strategy of giving money to China. I fundamentally goes about things. However, under difficult economic disagree with that, and I believe that the aid that we give circumstances, the tide of public opinion is changing. to India should be reviewed as well. Interestingly, I People such as myself, who have critical things to say appeared in an article in The Telegraph—not our Daily about DFID, are a little more empowered and confident Telegraph I hasten to add, but the one in India. I made about challenging the Department and how it spends the front page when I called for aid to India to be cut. taxpayers’ money. The Telegraph said what a fantastic MP I was. It said that I was the only one who was treating it seriously and DFID spends 90 per cent. of its resources in the with maturity. It said that I realised that it could look poorest countries in the world. Some might say that after itself without any assistance from the United that is very logical. Of course, we should be helping the Kingdom. I should love the Minister to look at a copy poorest countries in the world, and not giving money to of the Indian newspaper because the journalists really the very wealthy ones—I will come on in a moment to supported my stance that India can go it alone and does some of the wealthy countries that get our aid. However, not need financial assistance from Britain. it means that middle-income countries receive only 10 per cent. of the budget. As the right hon. Member Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): The hon. Gentleman’s for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce), the Chairman of the point is very important and should be fully explored. Select Committee on International Development, has He is talking about a strategy that we should have said, one in three of the world’s population who survive towards middle-income countries that does not exist. on less than $1 a day live in middle-income countries. He is quite right in exposing some of the inconsistencies Yet those countries receive only 10 per cent. of our aid. in who we do and do not support, and he makes his case I should like the Minister and my hon. Friend the very well. Nevertheless, does he not accept that the Member for North-East Milton Keynes (Mr. Lancaster) success of targeting our resources predominantly on to address that issue. In the run-up to the next election, poverty reduction in the poorest countries has lifted my hon. Friend and others in the Conservative party DFID into the world rankings as one of the most will talk about how to address that anomaly. effective aid agencies delivering poverty reduction? That As I said, north Africa received nothing last year, does not undermine his argument, but it is important according to the House of Commons Library. None the that he acknowledges that achievement. less, those countries are our neighbours and are of great Daniel Kawczynski: I agree. There is a lot that DFID strategic importance to the United Kingdom. When I does very well indeed, and it has a very good branding was in business, before entering Parliament, I visited around the world. I do not doubt the passion and north African countries many times. They are extremely sincerity of the people in DFID in the UK and around friendly towards the United Kingdom, very positive the world. When we visited Tanzania and Kenya we saw and they want to engage with us, but they are grappling the passion for ourselves and just how committed those with huge issues. Illegal immigrants from all parts of people are in assisting the world’s poorest. But as an Africa use them as a conduit for trying to gain entry Opposition MP it is not my job to smooth their feathers. into Europe. They are also being used as a conduit for My job is to scrutinise and assess some of the areas for drugs as they are smuggled from Latin America, via development. 99WH UK Aid (North Africa)3 JUNE 2009 UK Aid (North Africa) 100WH

Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) (Lab): The hon. time to reply over the next two months, but it is important Gentleman makes a fair point about poverty levels in to say that the Committee has specifically asked the middle-income countries, but surely he recognises that Government to address the issue. in absolute numbers, the poverty levels in India outstrip almost any other country in the world. While there is an Daniel Kawczynski: I am extremely grateful that our issue about misuse of aid and inappropriate aid, there is Committee has done that formally, and I look forward surely an overwhelming case for the provision of aid to to the Minister’s reply. Some members of the Committee the very poorest in India to help development. The may not agree with me, but I think that some of the numbers are phenomenal compared with any other part things that we saw in Kenya could quite easily have been of the world. done with microfinance. I hope that those projects will not receive so much money in future and that we can Daniel Kawczynski: My answer is that we give India spend more of the money on helping north Africa. more than £840 million a year. The sheer scale of that Interestingly, we met the Minister of Finance and Economic worries me. I will come to some of the serious problems Affairs in Tanzania, which receives £150 million a year, that north African countries have, but if we slice too and I had serious concerns—again, other hon. Members much of the cake off for India, there will be nothing left may disagree—about his lack of a coherent strategy for for north Africa. The King of Lesotho spent more improving his country’s situation. money on his 36th birthday celebrations than the entire You will be pleased, Mr. Bayley, that I shall now talk UK aid budget for his country three years ago. I have specifically about north Africa, and first about the made that point repeatedly in the House. Frankly, I am country for which I have a great deal of passion: Libya. appalled that when my constituents are facing difficulties I am chairman of the all-party group on Libya and I am with hospital services and such like, there are stories in desperately passionate about improving relations and the press that the King of Lesotho can spend on lavish trade with the country. I have frequent meetings with celebrations for his 36th birthday more than we give to Mr. Jelban, the Libyan chargé d’affaires, who will soon his country every year in aid. become the ambassador and who does an excellent job What really upset me when the Committee visited promoting his country in the United Kingdom. Kenya, which receives £50 million a year, and Tanzania, I led a delegation to Tripoli in September 2007 for the which receives more than £150 million a year—I hope 38th anniversary celebrations of Colonel Gaddafi coming that you will accept the relevance of this, Mr. Bayley, to power and will lead another delegation to the city on and I will talk very soon about north Africa—is that 1 September this year with Lord Steel of Aikwood—one there was no British branding. I have said that to the of my favourite LibDems—and others when we celebrate right hon. Member for Gordon. When we finally get aid the 40th anniversary. We will all remember the scenes to north Africa, whether under this Labour Government from watching the BBC of the former Prime Minister, or the next Conservative Government—I am saying this Mr. Blair, meeting Gaddafi in the tent. I wish I could with equal force to my hon. Friend the Member for have been a fly on the wall at those discussions. North-East Milton Keynes—it must have some form of British branding. There are no British flags or symbols— there is nothing—associated with the aid. It is so bad Jeremy Corbyn: Canvas. that the people in the village of North Horr in northern Kenya to whom I spoke thought that the aid was from Daniel Kawczynski: I am sorry; I wish I could have France, because a group of French youngsters called been a fly on the canvas. Solidarité, to whom DFID had outsourced the work, Mr. Blair and Colonel Gaddafi talked about weapons were implementing it. of mass destruction, and various promises were made I have been told that when the right hon. Member to get Libya to move away from its isolationist policies. for Birmingham, Ladywood (Clare Short) became What promises were made to Libya? When I led the Secretary of State she insisted, following scandals such delegation to Tripoli two years ago, officials at the as the Pergau dam incident, that there should be no Ministry of Health and Environment and the Minister linkage between DFID spending and British branding, himself stated that various categorical assurances were so that we could not be perceived as trying to influence given by Mr. Blair that there would be specific, concrete foreign Governments. The pendulum has, however, assistance for Libya’s health service. They were told that swung too far the other way when we send aid to the NHS would directly engage with the Libyan health countries and there is no link in the minds of the service, and that there would be help, particularly for people who benefit from it that it has come from the hospital in Benghazi. We all know of the case of the British taxpayers, that Britain feels strongly about children who tragically contracted HIV. Subsequently, supporting them or that Britain will continue to play the Bulgarian nurses were held under the ludicrous such a vital role. Why should we hide our passion about proposition that they had deliberately infected the children, helping others? Why should we not be proud, and state which was totally wrong. Those children contracted what we as a country are doing, rather than trying to HIV, regrettably, because of the poor sanitation and keep it under wraps? management of the hospitals in Benghazi. Mr. Blair made a specific pledge that help with management Malcolm Bruce: I hope that the hon. Gentleman would be given. acknowledges for the record that the Committee has Most importantly, the Libyan officials said that they just published our report “Aid Under Pressure”, in want to learn from our experiences of running the which we specifically ask the Government to revisit the NHS. They want our know-how. They said that we have issue of British identity in the name of the Department. one of the best health services in the world and that Of course, the Minister or the Department will have they want to learn about it from us. What has happened? 101WH UK Aid (North Africa)3 JUNE 2009 UK Aid (North Africa) 102WH

[Daniel Kawczynski] Jeremy Corbyn: The hon. Gentleman is making an important point about the tragedy, misery and horror What is DFID doing to fulfil Mr. Blair’s promise to of the lives of the many people who try to cross the Libya that assistance would be granted to the Libyan Mediterranean. Hundreds die in the process. It is a health services? They desperately need that help. testament of our times that so many people die in that horror. In addition to helping Libya with this matter, The Libyans dispose of their hospital waste, some of does he agree that it is more important to do something which is highly toxic, in the desert. They were promised about the poverty in the central African countries that assistance for an incinerator or other modern facility to the people come from? A combination of aspects such dispose of that waste but none has been forthcoming. I as environmental change and economic policies has led worry that Mr. Blair has gone in there, all guns blazing, to this dreadful human tide of misery and poverty, with promising everything, and then nothing has happened. so many dying in the process of trying to find somewhere He got them to give up their weapons of mass destruction, to live. but all the titbits he promised in exchange have not been delivered. What sort of a message does that send? Daniel Kawczynski: Absolutely. I concur with that. Libyan officials say to me, “We are rather miffed that This debate is about north Africa primarily, but countries all these promises were made and that none of them in that region are affected by their southern neighbours. have been fulfilled.” What does that say to other countries I will refer to questions that the hon. Gentleman has that we hope to entice away from weapons of mass asked about Western Sahara, among other things. I destruction and isolationist policies? What if the Libyans applaud his work on raising those issues with the go to Arab League meetings and say, “Don’t listen to Government. the British. They’ll promise you the world and then not The issue of illegal immigration will be magnified fulfil it”? That is of great concern. tremendously over the next 10 years unless something is done. My understanding is—unless the Minister can Also, Libya is chair of the African Union this year contradict this—that we currently give Libya zero financial and is doing important work in the role. There will be a assistance in this matter. major conference in Sirte from 1 to 3 July. Will the Minister confirm that someone from DFID will be sent The answers I have received to parliamentary questions to act as an observer? on this issue have always taken a Sir Humphrey Appleby- type approach. They say things like, “The EU is sorting Italy, interestingly, recently signed a contract with it all out”, or “We’re sending some money to the EU for Libya to provide it with $250 million a year for 20 years part of another little EU budget”. That is simply not to assist with infrastructure projects, such as construction good enough. Frankly, I do not want to know what the of motorways and a railway from Tripoli to Benghazi, EU is doing. I want to know what the British Government and all sorts of vital, pivotal projects to do with hospitals are doing. I do not want the British Government to and education. I do not agree with Mr. Berlusconi on shirk their responsibilities by saying, “We are giving a many things, but I applaud that stance and his commitment certain amount of money to the EU, which is doing X, to assistance for Libya. Y and Z”. That may be fine for the Minister’s meetings with his counterparts in Brussels, but this is the British Illegal immigration is a huge issue for Libyans to deal Parliament. We want to hear what the British Government with. People from the whole of west Africa trying to are doing directly, rather than listening to what the EU secure illegal passage to Europe use Tripoli as a transit is doing. If I wanted to know what the EU was doing, I point. As a result, crime has gone up on the streets of would take the Eurostar to Brussels and ask it directly. Tripoli and there is huge pressure on resources. The Libyans are not responsible for that. It is a side effect of Libya still faces the huge issue of refugees from so many people trying to get into Europe illegally. They Darfur. The hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. Drew) has go from Tripoli to the Italian island of Lampedusa, and asked many questions on Sudan and Darfur. People are to Malta. so desperate to escape the torture, brutality, rape and killings in Darfur that they cross the arid, barren and The Minister will know of the human suffering that deserted Libyan-Sudanese border in their hundreds and such people go through. He will have seen the scenes of thousands. They make their way to Tripoli seeking chaos on the BBC, with people drowning in the boats. sanctuary. He will have seen the state in which they reach Europe, I visited Darfur with my favourite Lib Dem, Lord how dehydrated they are and how they have been abused Steel, and the former leader of the Conservative party, by human traffickers along the way. It is human tragedy my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for of the most profound magnitude. What is the Department Folkestone and Hythe (Mr. Howard). It was the most doing to assist countries such as Libya in preventing tragic and heartbreaking experience I have ever been this human misery from happening? through. I never experienced anything like it as a businessman before I entered this place. It shook me to Yesterday afternoon, I spoke to our ambassador in my bones to meet the people in Darfur and to see what Tripoli, Sir Vincent Fean, who does an excellent job. He had happened to them and the conditions they live in. spoke of the detention camps in Tripoli that people are The only help I saw in refugee camps in Darfur was sent back to when they are caught on the high seas. The from international non-governmental organisations. I conditions are extremely poor and there is bad sanitation. could see nothing directly from DFID. The Minister I hope that the Minister will approach the Libyans and may contradict that and I hope that he can. tell them that we will do all we can to help them with management and sanitation in the centres, so that the Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): The hon. people who regrettably find themselves in them do not Gentleman is being a bit unfair. A massive amount of suffer as much as they currently do. resources go into Darfur from DFID. They cannot go 103WH UK Aid (North Africa)3 JUNE 2009 UK Aid (North Africa) 104WH in directly for many reasons—not least because our by barbed wire and surveillance equipment to prevent NGOs have been expelled from Darfur. That is a ringing people from sneaking into that European enclave. Morocco indictment of the Government in Khartoum. He is faces huge issues with immigration and drugs as a result being unfair because we have invested heavily. The of people being smuggled from west Africa, through problem is that peace is as far away as it ever was. Morocco, to the Canary Islands and Spain. What help will we give to Morocco to stop that? Daniel Kawczynski: If that is the case, as a Aid should be about helping people, but it should parliamentarian I look forward to hearing directly from also be of strategic importance to the UK. I keep going the Minister what the Government are doing specifically back to this because I feel so passionately about it. Yes, and directly to help the people of Darfur. we should help the poorest people in the world, but we I had the opportunity to meet President Omar al-Bashir should start to think about what strategic value there in his gilded palace in Khartoum and to tackle him on can be for the UK and how we can kill two birds with the suffering of his people. It was one of the most one stone. How can we help the poor people but also unpleasant meetings I have experienced. He said that tackle illegal immigration and the suffering of people there were no problems and tried to fob us off. Being being smuggled to Europe illegally? The Democratic surrounded by 50 bodyguards holding pistols was not Republic of the Congo has an identical GDP per capita conducive to tackling him. He has been indicted for war to Morocco, but it is ranked 10th highest for bilateral crimes and, as the hon. Member for Stroud said, he has aid, whereas Morocco gets nothing. thrown out the aid agencies. What will DFID do to put The hon. Member for Islington, North (Jeremy Corbyn) pressure on the Sudanese Government to ensure that has asked relevant questions about what assistance the the agencies that fulfil this vital job are allowed back in? Department is providing for refugees from Western I am conscious of the time, Mr Bayley, and will finish Sahara in refugee camps in Algeria. This issue is of as soon as I can. great importance. He will know that, in 1990, the United Nations wanted to ensure that the Polisario in Western I turn now to Egypt. As I said, the United States Sahara had the right to self-determination, but gives $1.5 billion dollars a year to Egypt, but 40 per unfortunately, Morocco still occupies the country and cent. of Egyptians live in poverty according to United there is a lot of suffering in the refugee camps in Nations figures. Yet we give nothing to Egypt. That Algeria. I would like the Minister to tell us what is takes us back to the point that the right hon. Member happening there and how he is working with the Foreign for Gordon made about the strategy of helping middle- Office to help the Polisario refugees in those camps. income countries. How is he trying to resolve that long-standing sore and Together with Dr. Wafik Moustafa, I chair the mediate in a situation that has been going on for decades, Conservative Arab Network. It has looked at statistics resulting in tremendous suffering for those people of relating to Gaza in preparation for this debate, and Western Sahara? today I received the following information. The funding On Mauritania, migration from the port of Nouadhibou pledged to Gaza, per capita, for March alone is almost to the Canary Islands is a huge issue, and we have seen equal to the entire annual GDP per capita of Egypt. reports in the national press about the suffering of The number of doctors and dentists per capita in Gaza those people. Tourists from my constituency and others and the west bank is approximately four times higher go to the Canary Islands on their annual holidays, and than in Egypt. The infant mortality rate is approximately when they are lying on the beach they suddenly see 20 per cent. higher in Egypt than in Palestinian areas. people who are totally dehydrated and near death being Those are all United Nations statistics. The Conservative deposited on the beaches. Many of the boats sink, and Arab Network stated: those people drown. I am not prepared to allow that “Yet the funding will support a terrorist regime with obscene travesty to continue, and I am shocked and baffled as to human rights abuses (Hamas) whereas Egypt is actively working the lack of discussion about this human tragedy. People to stop and limit” in all parties must be concerned about what is happening these extremists, but gets little funding. to those people and the suffering they are going through. Again, I disagree with things said in my Select This is not a political issue, so we must put party Committee’s report about the Gaza strip. Why is there politics aside and focus on how to help Mauritania and such a difference in funding? I do not object to British other countries to prevent this human suffering. taxpayers’ money being spent to help the people of The countries of north Africa are extremely friendly Gaza, particularly after the recent suffering and nations. My experience of them in business has been bombardments. However, why is there such a huge that they are extremely pro-British. They are trying to difference between the funding for Gaza on one side of fight fundamentalism and terrorism, and they are of the border, and Egypt on the other, when Egypt needs huge strategic importance to us. We have heard from to play such a major part in the solutions to the problems? President Sarkozy and others in the European Union Yesterday, I spoke to the shadow Foreign Minister, how they hope to bring them into the EU fold with my hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr. Lidington), greater trading agreements and assistance, but I want to about Morocco in preparation for this debate. He met know what we in the UK are doing directly to help them the Moroccan ambassador yesterday, and said that he with aid for refugees who are suffering in relation to was extremely positive and wanted to interact more and migration issues. have greater contact with DFID, in order to challenge I am chairman, as I said, of the Conservative Arab the French dominance in that part of the world. The Network, and we are having our inaugural event at the Minister will know that Ceuta and Melilla are two House of Commons on 30 June. There are 500,000 Spanish enclaves in Morocco. I visited Ceuta, which is a British Arabs in the United Kingdom, but not a single fortress, when I was in business, and it is totally surrounded one in either Chamber in our Parliament—an anomaly 105WH UK Aid (North Africa)3 JUNE 2009 UK Aid (North Africa) 106WH

[Daniel Kawczynski] shadows will not forget north Africa or that we must help countries such as Egypt and Libya to deal with that I hope will be rectified in the future. We need to some of the terrible human suffering that they face. engage with the British Arab community, who are prevalent in London and throughout the UK. One way of engaging Hugh Bayley (in the Chair): I would like us to commence with them is by showing them the interest that we have the winding-up speeches at 3.30 pm. I am happy to call in north Africa and the Arab world, as well as how we Jeremy Corbyn. are helping people who might even be their relatives, in certain cases, and how we are trying to tackle some of the appalling problems that they have. 3.10 pm I have asked quite a few written parliamentary questions Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) (Lab): I am pleased on this issue in the past few years, which I am looking that we are having this debate and I congratulate the through now. The right hon. Member for Leeds, West hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel (John Battle), who sits on our Select Committee, has Kawczynski) on securing it. North Africa is not a part also asked some very pertinent questions. He asked of the world that is often discussed in an holistic way, what contribution the Department has made to increasing and it is good that we can do that today. food aid to Egypt since March 2006, and whether the As with all such debates, the problem is whether the Secretary of State would make a statement on that, but reply should come from DFID or the Foreign Office. DFID’s response to that question was so Humphrey The Minister, who is from DFID, will clearly have Applebyesque that it was meaningless. I find that so difficulty responding on foreign policy issues, and I frustrating. The reply stated: suspect that we will get letters from the relevant departments “The Department for International Development (DFID) does after the debate. Inevitably, the issues that we are raising not have a bilateral programme in Egypt. DFID, however, continues will cut across the work of both Departments. to support poverty reduction efforts in Egypt through contributions to international institutions such as the European Commission The hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham made (EC). The UK is contributing about ¤95 million towards the EC’s some extremely important points about migrant peoples ¤558 million 2007 to 2010 programme of assistance to Egypt. travelling through north Africa. It is unbelievable that DFID has also been in regular contact with the World Food most British newspapers and broadcast media seldom Programme (WFP) and has responded to their recent global report the daily toll of misery and suffering that is the appeal for countries most at risk from rising food prices with a lot of so many people from sub-Saharan Africa. These £30 million contribution. There was no specific appeal for Egypt, people do their best to travel through the Sahara or the where the WFP operates capacity building programmes and school feeding programmes but has no emergency operations.”— countries on each of the coasts to reach north Africa, [Official Report, 12 June 2008; Vol. 477, c. 441W.] before trying to get across the Mediterranean to Greece, Italy, Malta, Cyprus, Spain or the Canary Islands. Again, the Government are saying, “We are giving a Indeed, there is more publicity when tourists are little bit of money to this and a little bit of money to inconvenienced because poor, benighted people from that.” I very much hope that we stop giving a little bit of sinking vessels have been washed up on the beaches of money to this and that, and start interacting and engaging the Canary Islands. Such things are at the sharp end of directly with these countries and try to help them directly. the gap between the richest and the poorest on our Finally, let me point out that DFID’s bilateral aid planet, and they are an indictment of us all. expenditure to north Africa fell from just £3.5 million in Children in our schools are rightly taught about the 2003-04—I do not know how to describe that figure heroism of people in the 19th and 20th centuries who without being rude: £3.5 million for the whole of north managed to travel to different parts of the world to Africa!—to about £500,000 in 2005-06, and then to zero succeed, survive or gain political asylum. I suspect that in 2007-08. When spending by other Departments is our grandchildren and their children will read about the included, aid to north Africa was £38.1 million in heroism of those who managed to escape desperate 2003-04, falling to £2.8 million in 2007-08, so the entire poverty in central Africa to get to Europe or north contribution of not only DFID but all Departments America to survive. There is a daily story there, but it is was a squalid £2.8 million in 2007-08. Those figures are simply not being reported. from the Library. That contribution represented 0.2 per I recognise what the hon. Gentleman said about the cent. of total aid from the UK to Africa as a whole, but camps in Libya, Morocco and the fortresses of Ceuta there are hundreds of millions of people in that region. and Melilla—the Spanish enclaves that are designed to That goes back to an earlier point. The Department keep migrants out. However, the issue goes much deeper. also estimated the UK share of multilateral expenditure The economic policies that are adopted by, or forced in northern Africa to be around £50 million in 2006-07, on, very poor countries in central Africa lead to rural and there are no data for 2007-08. depopulation, urban poverty and the loss of public services and education. As a result, the only route out of I am delighted to have had this opportunity to get a poverty for many people is to escape somewhere else. lot of things off my chest. From what I have seen, the Those who do end up working illegally in Europe so Minister does a very good job, and I very much hope that they can send small sums back home, some of that he will explain to me what his Department is doing which are stolen by moneylenders on the way. These are on some of the matters I have raised. I hope that he will extremely serious issues, and it would be helpful if the leave the debate having seen the passion that I have for debate highlighted them. north Africa, because I passionately feel that helping it will ultimately help our own country. No matter how Mr. Drew: I agree entirely with what my hon. Friend difficult the economic situation becomes, I hope that says. The situation is made that much worse by conflict, the Minister and his Conservative and Liberal Democrat which often originates with the desire to drive out an 107WH UK Aid (North Africa)3 JUNE 2009 UK Aid (North Africa) 108WH ethnic group that may not fit into a region’s or The camps were established in the 1970s—40 years country’s wider make-up. That is exactly what we had ago—and people then had to survive in them. Mauritania in Darfur. withdrew from its portion of Western Sahara, which became, in effect, the liberated zone. Ever since, about Jeremy Corbyn: My hon. Friend is absolutely right 150,000 people have been living in refugee camps in that there is an enormous ethnic dimension to many of Algeria. Algeria has supported them and given them these conflicts. People are driven out of a whole region space to survive. because they have a different ethnicity from the majority. There should have been a UN-sponsored referendum Equally, people can be victims of environmental disaster. to allow people to return to Western Sahara. There were The galloping expansion of the Sahara desert in all years and years of argument about how to draw up an directions means that cropping and herding are simply electoral roll. Morocco insisted that the people it had unsustainable as forms of agriculture, so people have to moved into Western Sahara as Moroccan settlers could go somewhere else. When they do, they are not welcome vote in the referendum, which would clearly have negated because there is already pressure there on the remaining the votes of the Sahrawi people living in the refugee resources and bits of land, and that leads to conflict. camps. No referendum has been held. There is not one simple explanation behind such events, The nearest that the situation ever came to some kind but a series of complexities. For the good of all of us, of development was the Baker plan. The former US we should concentrate far more on such issues and on Secretary of State James Baker convened a series of the needs of those involved, and I am pleased that we meetings and conferences at which he drew up a plan are at least having a debate about them today. that was effectively a form of limited autonomy for As the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham Western Sahara, which would have involved its people said, I am quite involved in the issue of Western Sahara. going back and, at an indeterminate date—I think Indeed, I am the chair of the all-party group on Western 10 years on—a referendum. The Polisario, the political Sahara, and my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud leadership of Western Sahara, reluctantly accepted the (Mr. Drew) is our secretary—I have just promoted him. plan—I was at the congress, in a big tent in the desert, The group exists to highlight a fundamental injustice, when they did it—only to have it effectively vetoed by which reflects not only on our foreign policy, but quite Morocco. We are back to square one and people living strongly on European policy and trade arrangements. in refugee camps. The hon. Gentleman was right that British aid to north The UN organisation MINURSO has just had its Africa is extremely limited. Such aid as is provided is mandate renewed by Security Council resolution 1871, disbursed through the European Union, the UN and of 30 April. Also, Christopher Ross, a former US non-governmental organisations, with a small amount diplomat, is undertaking a new round of negotiations. I being disbursed directly. hope that the British Government will do all that they The issue of Western Sahara and its refugees is the can to support and facilitate those negotiations, but result of politics and political conflict, but the European above all to recognise that it is not right that, 30 years Union manages quite deftly to operate in two entirely on, the third generation of the people who were driven separate and different zones when it comes to Western into the camps are now living there. Imagine what it is Sahara and Morocco. There is an EU trading arrangement like for a young person growing up in a refugee camp in with Morocco, which includes a human rights clause. A Algeria, knowing that all they can dream about is the large number of European companies are doing extremely possibility of going to Western Sahara at some well out of trade with Morocco, and I have no problem indeterminate point in the future. I pay tribute to the with trade with the country—I have no quarrel with Polisario leadership for managing to hold the camps Morocco in any way. However, I do have a problem together and ensure that sufficient aid gets through when companies benefit from the resources of Western from the UN and other sources at least to feed people Sahara or the fish off its coast—that is a different issue and provide medical care. The camps are actually extremely altogether. well run and are good communities, but they are still I do not want to go into the whole history of Western refugee camps, and are wrong and unnecessary. Sahara—that would take too long, and you have asked I hope that the Minister will at least be able to give me for Back-Bench speeches to stop by 3.30 pm, Mr. Bayley— some assurances: first, that our aid to MINURSO and but I do want to make a few brief points in parenthesis. to the camps will continue until it is no longer necessary, In the 1950s, France ceased to be, in effect, a colonial because people have a right to return; and that we will power in Morocco. In the 1960s and early 1970s, Spain re-examine the EU relationship with Morocco. There is still occupied Western Sahara as a colony. Morocco a human rights clause in the trade agreements, as there supported the right of self-determination and, therefore, is in all EU trade agreements. Morocco, by its illegal the option of independence for the Sahrawi people. occupation of Western Sahara, is in breach of that Indeed, throughout the ’60s and early ’70s, Moroccan clause. It is simple; why are we not doing anything Ministers made plenty of speeches supporting the concept about it? Why, instead, are we offering enhanced associate at African Union and other events. status to Morocco, instead of telling it, “You must The demise of the Franco regime and Spain’s withdrawal come to an accommodation with your neighbours and from Western Sahara led not to what should have been stop the illegal occupation”? an orderly process of decolonisation under the auspices It gets worse, however. Western Sahara has phosphate of the UN, but to the occupation of Western Sahara by resources and 3.5 million tonnes are turned out a year. Morocco and Mauritania and to a war. Morocco, which Who buys it? Who benefits from it: which companies? was well equipped with weapons from America and Surely as heck, none of that wealth or money is going to other countries, drove the majority of the Sahrawi the refugees who were driven out of Western Sahara all people out of Western Sahara and into Algeria. those years ago. Last year, the EU, to its discredit, 109WH UK Aid (North Africa)3 JUNE 2009 UK Aid (North Africa) 110WH

[Jeremy Corbyn] reason to believe that he had been murdered. Having read what has been put on the website of those responsible, concluded a fish agreement with Morocco, by which the I am left in no doubt that that, sadly, is the case. The abundant fish stocks in Western Sahara’s Atlantic waters case of Mr. Dyer—his being kidnapped and held in are now being harvested by Spanish and French companies, Mali and Niger, and his being sold on by local tribesmen for the main part. They are making a great deal of to Algerian members of al-Qaeda—shows that several money out of it. It is stolen property, as far as I am countries and terrorist groups in north Africa are at the concerned, and I hope that something can be done heart of the problems of the region. about it, and that the Minister can give us good news I thank the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham about that. (Daniel Kawczynski) for obtaining the debate, because At the UN in April, when the issue came up for I served on the Select Committee on International debate, the southern African countries, and South Africa Development, and I cannot remember there being a in particular, sent a very strong memorandum to the debate on aid to north Africa during those five or six Security Council: years—or in my eight years in Parliament. In addition “It is of concern to us that for over three decades, the situation to the value of the hon. Gentleman’s speech and that of in Western Sahara remains unresolved. We would like to reiterate the hon. Member for Islington, North (Jeremy Corbyn), that for us, the Member States of SADC”— and the interventions, the debate itself was a good idea. the Southern African Development Community— I question some of the issues that the hon. Member for “the struggle for the people of Western Sahara is a struggle for Shrewsbury and Atcham raised, but the very fact that self-determination and indeed is based on the principles of that he raised them is good. decolonisation, promotion of human rights, international legality There are issues about giving overseas aid to middle- and the stability and security of the African continent. It is a income countries, and there are other problems in struggle that people of our sub-region fully associate themselves considering the question of the poorest people in the with.” world. The poorest people live in Africa; but the majority It is significant that the only self-determination issue in of poor people do not live there, but in other countries, the whole of Africa that is recognised by the African some of which are middle-income countries. There are Union is that of Western Sahara. It is recognised as 150 million people in Uttar Pradesh—one state of India— Africa’s last colony. It is up to us to stop recognising de and 50 million of those live below the poverty line. facto Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara and to African countries have much smaller populations, and start putting political and economic pressure on Morocco individual states in India have 10 times their population. to withdraw. Uttar Pradesh has 10 times the population of Mali. There is a problem when DFID must decide where to Mr. Drew: The Polisario is clear—it has been announced tackle the requirements of those most in need; some of today—about the fact that it partly blames Morocco for those who are most in need receive nothing. I think that the very sad events concerning Mr. Dyer, because, of is part of the point of the debate. course, there is tacit support for the Salafist terrorist group, and it does not take a genius to work out that I am aware from previous visits that I have made that one of the sub-Saharan countries is helping it. Polisario’s branding is an important issue. I was with the Chairman allegation is that it is Morocco. and other members of the Select Committee following the earthquake in Pakistan. New housing had been put Jeremy Corbyn: It is indeed an important and serious up, funded by UK taxpayers but erected by Norwegians, allegation. We must be clearer in our relationship with and local people thought it was Norwegian housing. Morocco and stronger in our diplomatic efforts to However, I understand that there are risks in attaching persuade it that if it wants to be accepted as a normal the UK flag to projects in some developing countries, trading partner, with normal membership, the illegal because they can become targets for hostile groups. occupation cannot be allowed to continue. The people Often, as the hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. Drew) of Western Sahara deserve something better than that. mentioned, there are problems with host countries—not Last week I was at a conference in Madrid, organised least Sudan—and the sending of direct UK aid; the aid by the Autonomous university of Madrid, attended by must go through agencies. There is a problem in dealing eminent lawyers and professors. We went through the with countries such as Sudan whose Governments are, legality of the situation, but also the simple human as the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham said, aspects, such as the march by women of Western Sahara part of the problem, not the solution. alongside the sand wall, a heavily-mined “defence” facility constructed by Morocco. What is that about, Daniel Kawczynski: I agree that there are certain apart from being a terrible waste of resources and an cases in which it would be controversial or difficult to indictment of what illegal occupation and militarism shout from the rooftops that aid is from Britain. However, brings us to? Let the people of Western Sahara go back there are countries, such as Kenya, which I visited with and look after their own land, and live off the abundant the Select Committee, where it would be totally appropriate. resources that lie under it, and the fish in the sea beyond The villagers we spoke to in the most northern village in it. Otherwise, it will become the powder keg for yet Kenya that we visited said they were rather disappointed another war, more killing and more misery. that they had not known that that was British aid. They feel a great empathy with Britain and were rather startled by how quiet we were about explaining what we were 3.26 pm doing. John Barrett (Edinburgh, West) (LD): I want to begin by expressing my condolences to Edwin Dyer’s family, John Barrett: That reflects the view of the many following the announcement during Prime Minister’s people in Pakistan who asked why the British Government Question Time that the Prime Minister had strong were not doing more, even though there is a huge 111WH UK Aid (North Africa)3 JUNE 2009 UK Aid (North Africa) 112WH

Pakistani community in this country. DFID had in fact from al-Qaeda abducted the UN special envoy, Robert done much work, but that was not known on the Fowler, and his assistant, Louis Guay, near Algiers. ground. Their release in April 2009 was welcomed across the I am glad that this debate is taking place. Sudan was world. Meanwhile, security forces in Morocco have mentioned earlier and I hope to mention it later because clamped down on several militant cells, arresting, trying it is a key focus of the region’s problems. As has been and jailing their leaders. Having blamed four incidents mentioned, there is a lack of food and medical supplies in 2007 on al-Qaeda and al-Qaeda-inspired groups, there and the camps are becoming permanent because security forces are said to be on the lookout for militants of the problems. DFID has done a lot of work there who are believed to be crossing into Morocco from and ought to have due credit for it, but there is always Algeria. There were also the Madrid train bombings in much more to be done. When arguing for more direct 2004, which killed almost 200 people, as it was accepted overseas development aid, wherever it goes, we must that they were the work of a Moroccan gang. press for it to be spent effectively. When we hear stories Now that a significant number of al-Qaeda fighters of birthday celebrations that cost more than the aid to are leaving Iraq after the latest military offensive, north the region, we know that there is a real problem. I Africa appears to have attracted the largest number of genuinely have no problem explaining to my constituents returnees. According to reports confirmed by officials why more money should be spent on increasing our aid and analysts, there is a new arc of potential terror in the expenditure, even in the poorest parts of the constituency, region, across Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco. but they want to see it spent effectively. For anyone who believes in the war on terror, the next bout could well be fought and based in north Africa, Daniel Kawczynski: On that point, when I visited but I question the entire concept of a war on terror, Kenya recently with the International Development which developed in the Blair/Bush era. We cannot frame Committee I read all the national newspapers, and I our commitment to development and aid in the region found that the whole debate there during that time without being aware of that growing threat. focused on what types of Russian helicopters and planes Anyone who is in any doubt about the pressing need should be bought for the Ministers, at a cost of hundreds for our aid policies to react to those shifting realities of millions of pounds. That was in the national papers need only look to Morocco, where Islamists cleverly every day. I was so disappointed that while we are giving exploit gaps in Government services to their own advantage. them £50 million in aid, they are spending hundreds of While preparing for armed action and terrorism, they millions on luxury helicopters for themselves. have created a range of charities offering the services that the Government fail to provide, such as interest-free John Barrett: I must not be distracted because there loans, medical care, scholarships, support for newlyweds are too many other issues I would like to squeeze in and subsidised travel to Mecca. All are handled under during the remaining time, but I will say that problems the umbrella of the Justice and Benevolent Foundation, have arisen before in Kenya, as they have with the an old branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. If we cannot military hardware that India purchases and the air help those Governments to provide the essential goods traffic control system in Tanzania. and services their people demand, the ground will be I would like to focus on the fact, which was mentioned fertile for potential extremists to fill the vacuum and earlier, that UK bilateral aid expenditure to north Africa reap political influence and legitimacy. fell from £3.5 million in 2003-04 to £0.5 million in Conversely, by sharpening our aid-giving we can 2005-06 and then to zero in 2007-08. We cannot, however, directly and drastically reduce the attractiveness of militant ignore the amount of money that we, as major contributors groups to local populations. While it is right that we to the European Union, spend that works its way to our base aid on humanitarian need, we must nevertheless near neighbours. That is an important reason why we accept that the danger of Governments collapsing in must be aware of what is happening in countries that countries such as Mali, where there is a growing fear of are effectively our near neighbours. Many people go al-Qaeda influence, would fatally undermine development from the UK to Morocco, Tunisia and Egypt on holiday, goals across the entire region. Aid to north African as it is a short flight away, but we also see on television nations must focus at least in part on securing strong that there are problems there with terrorism and migration, and capable states that can provide for the people and and they are right on our doorstep. thus reduce the attractiveness of al-Qaeda and The challenges in north Africa are certainly different fundamentalist doctrines. That regional approach to from those in sub-Saharan or west Africa, and while the aid ought to be a key feature of our aid policy, that of need to reduce poverty in the whole region is perhaps the European Community and other multilateral not so pressing because it has oil wealth and other programmes to which we are donors. riches, there are nevertheless continuing economic and As Members have mentioned, there is a huge problem political problems in north Africa that ought to be of with refugees moving from western and sub-Saharan key concern to the UK. Mali, for example, is one of the Africa to north Africa, and often then to Europe. Can world’s poorest nations, so it is natural to ask why it the Minister confirm whether we have considered what receives no aid. further use we could make of the European neighbourhood Perhaps the biggest challenge facing north Africa, policy? EU-north African relations are a good test of from a security and development perspective, is the the ENP’s capacity to improve the EU’s relations with growing spectre of al-Qaeda in the region. Since the the region, and Morocco in particular, with which we foundation of the Salafist Group for Preaching and have managed to construct a solid relationship, has Combat and its official siding with al-Qaeda, the threat been portrayed as a good partner with the EU. Does he of fundamentalism in Algeria and across north Africa believe that the ENP gives us the chance to develop has grown. Members will recall that in 2008 militants those relationships with the entire region, and if so, 113WH UK Aid (North Africa)3 JUNE 2009 UK Aid (North Africa) 114WH

[John Barrett] For example, we agree that reaching the millennium development goals by 2015 should be a core priority for what are we doing through the EU to lead action on any British Government, and that is why the Conservative that? I know that the European Mediterranean policy, a party is committed to achieving the UN target of 0.7 per close cousin of the ENP, has faced criticism over its cent. of gross national income spent on aid by 2013. It approach. I am sure that I am not alone in wanting to is also by following the core aims that we can help to know what lessons can be learnt. define the UK’s approach to aid to north Africa. In addition to the problems with al-Qaeda, the whole From the latest figures that I have—they are slightly of north Africa suffers from the problems of climate confusing—the UK allocated close to £2.8 million of change, but unfortunately I do not have time to discuss bilateral aid to north Africa in 2007-08. That is a those today. I will briefly raise the problem of arms marked reduction from the £19.68 million in 2006-07 exports from the UK. I believe that too many arms and considerably lower than the one-time high of exports have reached north Africa and caused problems £42.9 million in 2004-05. Indeed, the last time the in the region. Time has beaten me, so I shall conclude Department itself gave bilateral aid was in 2006, when there. £519,000 was given. As my hon. Friend said, that has since reduced to zero. Does the Minister think that such 3.39 pm levels of aid will continue? Mr. Mark Lancaster (North-East Milton Keynes) To be reasonable, it would be superficially easy to (Con): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, criticise the considerable reduction in aid to north Africa, Mr. Bayley. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member but the move is consistent with the stated aims of the for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) on Department: that UK aid should be spent where each securing this timely and important debate. He spoke pound will have the greatest impact on poverty, thus with great passion and knowledge and certainly gave levering the greatest influence on helping to reach the me, and, I am sure, the Minister, enormous food for millennium development goals. But what level of aid thought. should we give to north Africa? It still faces its fair share One of my hon. Friend’s key points was to highlight of challenges in respect of democracy, as highlighted by the different approaches the Department for International the hon. Member for Islington, North, a lack of press Development takes to low-income and middle-income freedom, especially in Libya, and poor maternal mortality, countries. Indeed, I saw that at first hand when I travelled to name but a few. to Guatemala last year. It is a bizarre country. The first However, it is important to note that none of the thing one sees after leaving the airport is a Porsche countries in the north African region—Algeria, Egypt, garage, and within half an hour’s distance from the city Libya, Morocco and Tunisia—are on the United Nations one is up in the hills with people living on less than $1 a list of the least developed nations. The gross domestic day. As the Chairman of the International Development product figures for Egypt and Algeria are $162 million Committee, the right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm and $159 million respectively—more than New Zealand— Bruce), said, we should perhaps look again at how we and GDP figures for Libya and Algeria are higher than treat middle-income countries. those for Croatia or Luxembourg. Those facts are My hon. Friend commented on the branding of UK underlined by the UN MDG monitor, which is an aid. That may be attractive to some, but, on the basis of initiative that tracks each country’s progress towards personal experience, having served as a development the millennium development goals. It records good to officer in Helmand in Afghanistan for a time, I would mediocre progress in the region. Indeed, four countries urge a degree of caution. The last thing we wanted to do have made particular progress in delivering the millennium there, as we were trying to build a sense of loyalty to a development goals. central Afghan Government, was to brand everything Algeria is on track to meet the goals, and is poised to with a UK flag. That would have been counter-productive, achieve both social and economic progress. If we take but there is no one-size-fits-all approach. We must look employment rates, for example, we can see that at each case individually. unemployment in Algeria has dropped from 27 per My hon. Friend also spoke briefly about Sudan. We cent. in 2001 to 12.7 per cent. in 2008, and maternal have concerns about how DFID support is being delivered mortality has declined from 117 per 1,000 births in 1999 there, and we need to look at that again to ensure that it to 96 per 1,000 in 2005. is done effectively. Egypt has partially tackled its hunger and under- The hon. Member for Islington, North (Jeremy Corbyn) nourishment problems. Only 5 per cent. of Egypt’s also made an interesting and informed speech. He cautioned children are now chronically underweight. That figure against this debate crossing between the Foreign Office is still too high, but it is a vast improvement on a decade and DFID. For my own part, I intend to stick firmly ago. More impressively, 95 to 97 per cent. of children of with the DFID side of the debate, and I am sure that he both sexes are enrolled in primary school education. will forgive me for that. Egypt is well on track to meet five of the eight millennium DFID’s website clearly states that its core role is development goals. “to make sure every pound of British aid works its hardest to help The UN development programme’s 2005 report declares the world’s poor.” that all Libya’s millennium development goals are on It goes on to say that the Department’s first target is to target to be met within the appropriate time frame. “reach the millennium development goals…by 2015.” Under-five mortality rates have dropped significantly Conservative Members may have some concerns as to from 160 per 1,000 in 1971 to 30 per 1,000 in 2001, and how effective the Department is in achieving those 90 per cent. of children of both sexes are enrolled in aims, but, none the less, they are aims that we support. primary education. 115WH UK Aid (North Africa)3 JUNE 2009 UK Aid (North Africa) 116WH

Tunisia has made considerable progress in achieving values of democracy, human rights, the rule of law, the millennium development goals and is set to meet the good governance, market economy principles and majority of the targets by 2015. That impressive sustainable development. The ENP rightly does not development has been spurred on by Tunisia having pre-empt the accession of countries and is not an alternative. almost 100 per cent. of children of both sexes enrolled It simply sets out to strengthen the economic and social in primary education. Unfortunately, Morocco, while interaction between the EU and its neighbours. superficially booming from sun, sea and sand tourism, Currently, Algeria, Egypt, Morocco and Tunisia are is struggling to keep pace with its north African neighbours. members of the ENP, and Libya’s future inclusion is The MDG monitor suggests that a fully literate work under negotiation. The EU and each of the countries force will not be achieved until 2040. have drawn up an ENP action plan to be carried out Further progress is required, but it is clear that north between 2007 and 2010 or 2013, depending on the Africa as a region is making progress towards achieving country. Perhaps it would be appropriate to spend a few the millennium development goals, especially when moments looking at how the action plans will help compared with other parts of the African continent. It north Africa to continue to develop and meet its millennium is therefore our belief that the UK can spend its aid development goals—on the other hand, perhaps not, as budget more effectively by focusing on the least developed we are running out of time. countries which, on the African continent, would primarily The ENP supplies not only binding treaties that have be in sub-Saharan Africa rather than the middle-income development at their heart, but also a means by which countries in north Africa. to monitor progress in meeting the targets. What is However, as with everything, there is a question of more, treaties have not been forced on nations but are balance. It is not that we believe that north Africa drawn from the priorities of the host nations—in this should not receive any aid. UK bilateral aid has decreased case, north African states—and the EU to strengthen significantly, but UK taxpayers’ money continues to be the interaction between neighbouring regions. That said, spent via multilateral institutions such as the World given our major contribution to the EC and the fact Bank, the African Development Bank and the European that it is the key player in the region, I would ask the Union. I would like to take a moment to look at some Minister what steps his Department is taking to strengthen of the ways that that money is being spent. the delivery of aid via the EC. There are several successful UN and World Bank Although it is a relative term, north Africa is better projects in north Africa which help to foster both social placed than other regions both in Africa and the rest of and economic development. For instance, the World the world to meet the millennium development goals. Bank’s poor peri-urban neighbourhood water provision UK bilateral aid to the region has declined, but the UK scheme will have provided 11,300 homes in Morocco taxpayer continues to support the region through other with basic water and sanitation by 2010. multilateral institutions, in particular via the European Community. The Conservative party will continue to Likewise, the African Development Bank is also working monitor the situation. However, I am very grateful to hard. It has its headquarters in the region, in Tunis. my hon. Friend for securing this very timely and important When I spent a week there last year on an internship debate. with the ADB, I visited several projects in Tunisia indirectly funded by British taxpayers via that bank. Of particular interest was a development just outside the 3.50 pm capital: a major road project on the coast which is The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for aimed at increasing tourism. It is an impressive project, International Development (Mr. Michael Foster): It is but it speaks volumes that Tunisia is sufficiently advanced always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, in its development programme that it can focus on Mr. Bayley. tourism projects rather than the provision of basic amenities for its population. I begin by congratulating the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) on securing There is a similar picture elsewhere in the region with this particular debate. He may not know it, but I shared ADB projects. Egypt has received support for power an office for four years with his predecessor as the MP projects, and the principal work of the bank in Morocco for Shrewsbury and Atcham, Paul Marsden, so I can is in strengthening the Government. Libya and Algeria say to him that the voters in his constituency certainly have had no requirement to borrow from the bank elect colourful and interesting characters to be their at all. Member of Parliament. Putting our contributions to multilateral institutions I obviously want to discuss some of the comments to one side, there are other ways that we can help north that have been made about the Government’s support Africa to develop and not only meet, but surpass the for the north African region. First, however, I want to millennium development goals and become a viable express the Government’s sympathies to the family of trading partner of the UK. Notwithstanding our concerns Edwin Dyer, who was so barbarically murdered by at the effectiveness of the delivery of aid via the EC—that terrorists in Mali. As has been said at Prime Minister’s is a debate in itself—we could, for example, look at Question Time, our thoughts are with his family at this helping the EC strengthen and build on its European moment in time. neighbourhood partnership initiatives, which would help The debate began with the hon. Gentleman saying to boost economic growth in the region. that he felt that someone had to be “some sort of nutter, The ENP instrument was developed in 2004 to promote fanatic or extremist” to question the work of the prosperity, stability and security in the EU’s new neighbours Department for International Development. I would after its enlargement. The ENP offers a privileged never, ever refer to him in that way. Indeed, I welcome relationship to neighbours who share the EU’s common well-informed and evidence-based challenges to the work 117WH UK Aid (North Africa)3 JUNE 2009 UK Aid (North Africa) 118WH

[Mr. Michael Foster] covers 16 countries, including those south of the EU, such as Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia. that DFID does, because I do not believe that we can The ENP aims to secure mutual prosperity and stability, stay the best development agency in the world by resting along with deeper political and economic integration on our laurels. I welcome challenges and prompting between the EU and its neighbours. along those lines. The hon. Gentleman suggested that he was not really I also want to point out what were perhaps contradictions interested in what the EU was doing; he described EU in the hon. Gentleman’s arguments about the level of aid as being “little” pots of money. I just want to put on assistance given to middle-income countries as compared the record the fact that as part of the UK’s overall with low-income countries. He said that a third of the contribution to the European Commission—a contribution poorest people in the world were living in middle-income of around 17 per cent. of the European Commission’s countries and more should be done to help them. At the budget—the UK’s contribution to the ENPI is about same time, he argued very strongly that UK aid to £120 million a year, which is not a little or inconsiderable China should cease and he also argued that India sum of money. Furthermore, in terms of the annual should go it alone. I would hazard a guess that that average allocation to countries in north Africa, Libya third of the poorest people in the world are living in received ¤2 million, Algeria ¤55 million, Egypt China and India. I urge caution about the nature of the ¤139.5 million, Morocco ¤163.5 million and Tunisia argument that he makes, if he is so passionate about ¤75 million. Those figures are the annual average allocation helping those people. to those countries for the period from 2007 to 2010. Our policy towards middle-income countries was raised We have worked in partnership with the Foreign by the International Development Committee, as the Office to influence and implement the design of the right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce), who programmes funded by the ENP, to ensure that the aid is the Chairman of that Committee, mentioned. I would is delivered effectively and is properly monitored. We just add that, with the White Paper that is currently also work to ensure that the programmes of the European being discussed, there is an opportunity for individual Community, the EU member states generally and the MPs, and even the Committee as a whole, to contribute European Investment Bank are joined-up and prioritise towards developing that White Paper, including making poverty reduction and economic development. a contribution on our policy on middle-income countries. The second strand of our approach is delivered through I also feel strongly about branding. There is a case to DFID’s middle east and north Africa regional programme, make for better branding of the things for which the whereby we support the work to tackle key barriers to United Kingdom taxpayers pay. Indeed, I sent the hon. development by stimulating economic growth and Gentleman, along with all colleagues in the House, an improving security right across north Africa. Our main e-mail that showcased our work on Gaza. In that e-mail, intervention for the promotion of growth in the region he will see a picture of four Toyota Land Cruisers being has been through support to the International Finance supplied by the UK with a DFID logo and a big Union Corporation’s private enterprise partnership for the middle Jack on the side, to show that the UK taxpayer was east and north Africa, or PEP-MENA. That is a multi- making a contribution and effort in Gaza. However, donor trust fund that supports new investment and job that is not something that can be applied in each and creation and develops new income opportunities in every circumstance where aid is given, as the hon. Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia among Member for North-East Milton Keynes (Mr. Lancaster) others. suggested. The fund provides advice to companies and helps to DFID tries to provide 90 per cent. of our funding to improve their access to finance, making it easier for low-income countries, to enable us to hit the millennium people to set up new businesses, especially small and development targets. That means that the bulk of our medium-sized enterprises. It also helps Governments to funding goes to Africa, Asia and parts of the middle develop public-private partnership projects and to introduce east. The fact that the North African countries are environmentally and socially sustainable business practices. typically middle-income countries means that they do not receive a large proportion of our bilateral aid. Jeremy Corbyn: What advice is given to private sector However, as the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and companies on trading with Morocco where the goods Atcham said, a significant number of people in north bought or traded with are produced in the western Africa are living in poverty and facing major challenges, Sahara? such as insecurity, conflict, breaches of their human rights, gender inequality, rapid population growth, Mr. Foster: I made a note about the EU’s relationship unemployment and economic stagnation. Many with Morocco and the trade between the two when my Governments in the region are either reluctant or unable hon. Friend spoke. He will be receiving a letter from me to take forward the economic, political, security and explaining exactly the details of our policy on that social reforms that are needed to tackle poverty and to particular trading issue. pursue policies that promote peaceful regional co-operation. The third strand of our approach to north Africa Therefore, DFID has adopted five strands in our particular relates to security. As well as working with other approach to supporting north Africa, working in Departments—the Foreign Office and the Ministry of partnership with, or through, other organisations in the Defence—we have targeted funding at think tanks, such region. as the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace First, DFID and the Foreign Office are helping to Middle East Centre, to produce evidence-based analysis shape the EU’s European neighbourhood policy and on political and economic reform issues, which will the allocation of its aid budget, the European encourage open and progressive debate. We also provide neighbourhood and partnership instrument. The ENPI support to Transparency International to set up advocacy 119WH UK Aid (North Africa) 3 JUNE 2009 120WH and legal advice centres in Egypt, Lebanon, Morocco Private Parking Companies and the occupied Palestinian territories. Those centres help to build up the capacity of civil society to engage 4pm citizens directly in the fight against corruption. Mrs. Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab): It is a delight to The fourth strand of our approach involves working be under your chairmanship, Mr. Bayley; I have not had with regional development partners who have a significant that privilege before. I am grateful for the opportunity influence on stability and economic development in the to raise an issue that I am sure many hon. Members region. For example, I recently signed a partnership have come across in their constituencies: the regulation agreement with the Islamic Development Bank and we of parking on private land—predominantly land owned will be contributing to its statistical capacity-building by businesses—and the enforcement of rules by privately initiative in the middle east and north Africa. That run and contracted parking companies. programme will improve the quality of statistics, to increase accountability and give Governments the data Let me say first that I do not advocate a state of that they need to help them make better evidence-based affairs in which business owners are unable to maintain policy. propriety over the parking spaces that they provide for their customers. I also recognise the work of the British Finally, the fifth strand of our approach is that we Parking Association and many of its members to raise believe that securing good development outcomes in standards and improve practices in the private parking north Africa requires explicit engagement with the political industry.It must be made clear, however, that the behaviour process. Politics can make a difference between violence and attitudes of a significant minority of private parking and the path to prosperity. It means giving the poor and firms are at best questionable; at worst, they are rude, marginalised a greater voice and greater opportunities aggressive, manipulative and potentially threatening. in life. For example, time and again the evidence demonstrates that maternal health care is more likely to I have called for this debate to raise the concerns of be improved where women themselves have a greater my constituents, to expose the opacity of the legal say in the policy formulation. landscape in which the firms operate and to see whether my hon. Friend the Minister will give me some comfort We will continue to work with the Foreign Office and in thinking that we can move some way towards finding through the EU and other partners to do more to a solution. Although the experience of my constituents support lasting political settlements, to build institutions does not relate specifically to wheel-clamping, many of to resolve conflict and to give a voice to the poor and the arguments that I shall make are relevant to the the vulnerable. We will encourage states to provide basic companies that impose wheel-clamping sanctions as security, justice and the rule of law, creating the stability well. that countries need to get on the path to economic First, I shall highlight some of the experiences of my growth. constituents in recent months, which initially brought The hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham the problem to my attention. In Stirling we recently had mentioned UK support to Sudan. I just want to put on an example of what I can only suggest is questionable the record the fact that the UK is the largest European practice on the part of one particular private parking bilateral humanitarian donor to Sudan. We gave more firm, even though it is apparently operating within the than £55 million in humanitarian assistance to it in voluntary guidelines. It was able to access the details of 2008-09. Furthermore, the UK provides 50 per cent. of the drivers—my constituents—through the Driver and the common humanitarian fund for Sudan and we have Vehicle Licensing Agency, as it is a member of the BPA. just given £36 million for 2009. That makes up the UK’s My constituents have been subject to fines for wheels largest single humanitarian contribution in the world, being inches “outwith the parking bay”. In fairness, the and those figures would have been available on the company has disputed that. Constituents have told of DFID website. parking attendants waiting in their own vehicles, apparently The debate has raised some important issues, which I ready to pounce as soon as someone leaves their car hope I have been able to address. The Government will unattended. Again, in fairness, I have to say that the continue to support north Africa as part of our wider company denies that. My constituents have suffered at approach to poverty reduction, working with our EU the hands of parking attendants who have not been partners, multilateral organisations, non-governmental clearly identifiable by their uniforms, contrary to the organisations and other Governments to make progress claims of the company involved, or who have failed towards meeting the millennium development goals in properly to identify themselves when asked. Many elderly all regions of the world. and infirm constituents have reported parking attendants being confrontational, rude and intimidating. Many of those ticketed live on extremely limited means. The parking area to which I am referring covers an area where there are cut-price shops, which are attractive to people watching their budgets. Failure to pay the so-called reduced parking charge of £60 within the tight time scale of 14 days results in an increase in the fine to £85, and that increases to £135 to cover “administrative costs”—I am quoting from the letters received by my constituents—if it is not paid within a further 14 days. I ask the Minister to compare that with the local police authority fine of £30, with 21 days to pay, and an option, if the owner challenges the fine, to request a court hearing. 121WH Private Parking Companies3 JUNE 2009 Private Parking Companies 122WH

[Mrs. Anne McGuire] conditions and so on, they are in breach of contract. It is a mysterious contract to many, I have no doubt. It It is not reasonable to expect my constituents who may be covered by contract law in Scotland, but then found themselves in that situation to be able to find perhaps it is covered by contract law that covers aspects £60 or £85 in the time scale given. If there was a breach of life on a Great Britain basis. of the deadline, they received even more threatening demands—letters that implied that non-payment could Mr. Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Whitby) (Con): affect their credit rating or lead them to lose part of Is it not also the case that car owners who intend to pay their wages. One constituent reported that she was but need to go to a nearby shop to get change to do so receiving calls up to twice a day from what she believed are given no period of grace in which to do that? was a debt collection company, demanding payment on behalf of the car parking firm for a fine that she Mrs. McGuire: I have not had time to go into all the claimed she had already paid. The tone of the calls was examples, but what the hon. Gentleman describes certainly described to me as rude, patronising and threatening. illustrates some of the experiences of my constituents in The company could not explain what the £65 it was that there was no period of grace at all. I refer him back demanding was for, and in the end the woman was so to my comments about operatives waiting in vans, fed up and distressed that she paid it by direct debit over giving the impression that they were ready to pounce as the phone. She believes that she has now paid £135 in soon as someone came out of their car. I want to be total. clear that the penalty notice is not a fine. It looks and Signage in the car park met the minimum BPA guidelines feels like a fine, people think it is a fine, but it is a but, in my opinion and that of my constituents, it was notification of a breach of contract. Paying it is effectively improperly placed and therefore difficult to see. Only an out-of-court settlement of a contract dispute, not a this week, a constituent sent me a photograph of a fine. However, none of that is much comfort to an parking sign upside down at the bottom of a wall. I do elderly lady who receives an unpayable fine and a threatening not know how people are expected to see such signage. demand letter. I shall return to the behaviour of some As the parking area had previously been free and was of those firms in a moment. supposed to be free for people shopping in the area, the Any landowner—which could be anything from the signage should have been sufficient to indicate that that local pub owner to the largest supermarket—can set was no longer the case. restrictions for parking on their land. If they own the The company will tell us that there is an appeals land on which they provide parking, they are free to system, but it is flawed. First, it is conducted by the enforce whatever rules they see fit. They are also free to company whose operatives have handed out the fines in employ somebody else to enforce those rules, which is the first place, so it is someone’s word against theirs. A where private parking companies come in. If a landlord number of my constituents report submitting an appeal, enters into an agreement with one of those firms, the receiving no acknowledgement and then receiving an amount charged by the parking company, and who gets automatically generated final demand for payment. the revenue, is decided on an individual basis by the Eventually, many of the fines were written off at appeal, landowner and the parking contractor. Sometimes but that was after a lengthy, stressful and very public landowners will pay firms a flat fee, in which case process that caused great distress to my constituents. the landowner will usually receive all or a share of the There is no margin for understanding and no middle revenue from the tickets issued. In other cases, the ground. The attitude is far from constructive. I am only landowner will pay the firm nothing on the understanding astonished that the business owners in the area did not that it can keep all revenues from ticketing, however see that the attitude was counter-productive and that it large. was detrimental to their businesses if customers were There is no legal limit on the amounts that contractors frightened of parking outside their shops. can charge, and no oversight of how they enforce their I want to reflect on how this situation could have charges. The parking industry’s representative body, the come about and to dwell for a few moments on the British Parking Association, is aware of that, but I current legal landscape. We have seen regulations passed suspect that it is no more enthusiastic about poor to govern parking enforcement on highways and other practice among parking firms than I am. Although it local authority land with the Traffic Management Act has made no particular criticism of the company that I 2004, along with similar legislation in the devolved have used as an example, it recognises that the poor regions and nations. There have also been welcome behaviour exhibited by some of its members reflects attempts by the Home Office to regulate the wheel-clamping badly on the entire industry. industry with the Private Security Industry Act 2001 The BPA has established an approved operators scheme, and its corollaries. However, the issues that I am raising which sets out approved practices that should remedy go far beyond wheel-clamping, which, as the Minister the above concerns. However, as I indicated, the firm will no doubt tell me, is not legal in Scotland. that I mentioned was a member of the BPA and the With parking on private land, however, the situation approved operators scheme. Although the BPA does is somewhat different. Currently, private parking is not not investigate individual incidents, consistent breaches governed by any specific legislation. In England it falls of the rules by member companies could lead to exclusion under the laws of contract and trespass; in Scotland it is from the scheme and from BPA membership. purely contract law. In Scotland, by parking on private The approved operators scheme is voluntary, and land, a member of the public is in effect entering into a because the BPA is a membership organisation, its contract with the owner. If they contravene the rules set sanctioning powers are limited. No companies have out by the owner, such as in respect of parking bays, by been excluded from the BPA as a result of reported exceeding the time allowed or in respect of patronage abuses. That reflects the BPA’s desire to keep member 123WH Private Parking Companies3 JUNE 2009 Private Parking Companies 124WH companies onboard and retain some form of incentive that it can represent its members without a conflict of for companies to comply with the scheme. Part of the interest, set standards of best practice and lead the way in which such companies work is by utilising the development of the industry. right of anybody to request keeper information for a As I said, we all recognise the importance of allowing vehicle from the DVLA. That can be done by post business owners to control the use of their land to their or—most likely in the case of a parking company that best advantage. I recognise that some of the issues that I handles large amounts of requests—electronically. have raised will require discussion with devolved The DVLA recently restricted electronic access to its Administrations in order to seek a solution. I hope that vehicle keeper register to members of an approved trade we will have the chance to begin to expose some of the association, which in effect means the BPA. That provides weaknesses in the current system, identify what needs to an stick—albeit a very small one—to add to the BPA’s be done and set in motion the work needed to do it. carrots. However, I suggest that that exposes a potential I look forward to the Minister’s response. conflict of interest for the BPA. As the registered trade association, it would be incredibly difficult for the BPA 4.17 pm to act as both regulator and representative of the industry. In addition to creating a conflict of interests, it simply The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport does not have the capacity to be all things to all parking (Paul Clark): It is nice to be with you again in the firms. Chamber today, Mr. Bayley. At the outset, I want to congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for I am delighted to see the Minister here today. However, Stirling (Mrs. McGuire) on securing the debate. It is an I must be frank and say that I had some initial trouble issue of importance to many people. in finding a Department to take this issue on. Eventually, There is a debate about the whole issue of where a I was able to confirm which Department had that motorist can leave his or her vehicle on land owned by responsibility, and that allowed me to submit a written an individual company or institution. As my right hon. question on 20 March 2009, column 1390W. I asked Friend pointed out, those bodies are many and various. whether the Secretary of State would bring forward They can be schools, hospitals, large shops, complexes, plans to regulate parking on private land, and I was told or cinemas and other entertainment venues. The one that the Department had no plans to do so. thing common to all those places is that their land is not It is not surprising that there is some confusion as to part of the public highway, and a member of the public who in Government holds responsibility for this area. I has no automatic right to use it. would be happy to be proven wrong, but by my reckoning, We all have the right to enjoy the use of our land as we have the following range of responsibilities: the we see fit and—if it is large enough—to restrict access Home Office regulates clamping through the Security to it. Landowners are entitled to prevent unwanted Industry Authority; the Department for Transport regulates parking, which includes the use by others of any parking on-street parking through the Traffic Management Act facilities provided for visitors and customers. Therefore, 2004; the Department for Communities and Local they also have the right to charge for the use of their Government is responsible for local authorities, which land and to put in place such charging schemes as the currently administer parking within their remit under law allows. the law that I have just mentioned; and the Ministry of On the other side, drivers have a responsibility to Justice is responsible for contract law across England, check when they park their vehicle that they are allowed which as I have said forms the current legal basis for to do so. They must undertake that requirement, but we parking restrictions and charges on private land. I have should expect fairness and civilised behaviour from not even mentioned the Department for Business, Enterprise those whose business it is to enforce the rights of and Regulatory Reform as having a role in this as well. landowners—an issue highlighted by my right hon. In Scotland, some of those matters will be the Friend. Of course, that does not mean that a motorist responsibility of the Scottish Government and a host of who parks on private land is not protected by the law. A other agencies and Departments. We also have the BPA, motorist may complain to the local trading standards which covers private parking firms that operate across office if a landowner does not provide in good time the whole country and provides access to DVLA records material information about the service that is provided. as a GB-wide organisation. To tackle that problem, I Motorists can complain to the Office of Fair Trading if suggest that we need to address not only gaps in regulation contract terms are considered unfair. It should be noted of the parking industry but—with the greatest respect—gaps that unfair contract terms are not binding on the consumer. in Government responsibility. Motorists are at risk, however, if they trespass on I will move on quickly to a couple of comments that I land. Many of us will have used such areas ourselves—for want to make on future measures. We must create a example, when visiting a pub or restaurant—and will framework that addresses three aspects of the private know that the land can be used only by the customers of parking industry: regulation, adjudication and that establishment. It is therefore unacceptable for people representation. For regulation, we need a legal framework to leave vehicles there if they are not customers. Land in which companies can operate, and the means to can also be set aside for resident-only parking; again, judge whether they have done so. That requires a means not everybody can leave their vehicles there. of setting and assessing compliance and common standards. Landowners use one of three main ways to keep The adjudication of individual cases of grievance requires watch over who is using their land. One is to have some sort of recognised, transparent and trusted appeals barriers at the entrance and/or exit, which can often be process that is fair to both landowners and those who seen in private car parks. The second is immobilisation have been ticketed. Representation is needed to allow a and/or removal of the offending vehicle. The third is continued role for organisations such as the BPA, so ticketing. The barrier is, perhaps, the most acceptable 125WH Private Parking Companies3 JUNE 2009 Private Parking Companies 126WH

[Paul Clark] I understand that the company concerned is a member of the BPA. What my right hon. Friend said about the method, but it is not always practical for small areas trouble and difficulties that her constituents have had such as shop or petrol station forecourts. Nor is it with this company causes me concern. I have no doubt suitable if it is likely to cause disruption to traffic on the that the BPA will be aware of today’s debate, and the main highway—for example, if people are queuing on concerns raised here will do it no good. It must be well the road to get in through the barrier. Nevertheless, aware that one of its member companies is falling short barriers have a role to play. of the association’s requirements. I will return to that My right hon. Friend mentioned immobilisation, but issue later. it was not the key thrust of her speech. None the less, I I wish to clarify a couple of points raised by my right can tell her that on 30 April the Government launched a hon. Friend. I understand that the BPA investigates consultation on the regulation of vehicle immobilisation individual incidents if it believes that there has been a businesses. We wish to curb practices such as unreasonably breach of the code of practice or if the DVLA receives a high release fees and inadequate signage, another important complaint about a company that it would like the BPA subject in today’s debate. In order to tackle unacceptable to investigate further. The BPA will work with such practices, the consultation seeks views on the Government’s companies, usually to ensure that they understand the preferred option of introducing a compulsory membership requirements and the standards that are to be met. I scheme for vehicle immobilisation businesses. You will have known that happen in other examples, and there not expect me, Mr. Bayley, to prejudge the outcome of has been substantial improvement. that genuine consultation, but the Government are likely to introduce industry-wide standards for the size and The Competition Commission is not concerned that visibility of signage, maximum penalties and control of the BPA cannot fulfil two functions at the same time, payment methods. although my right hon. Friend said that it would be a conflict of interests, but it would be concerned if the That brings us to the third way of watching over BPA was the only organisation that the DVLA would those who park on private land—that of ticketing, the consider for accreditation, as it would effectively hand sending to the vehicle keeper of a request for payment the BPA a monopoly. That, however, is not the case. The or an excess charge for leaving the vehicle on the said BPA is currently the only organisation that has applied piece of land. Developments in technology and the for and gained accreditation in the parking sector. The requirement for vehicle immobilisation operatives to be DVLA is happy to consider applications from other licensed have resulted in a number of landowners changing organisations for accreditation. their enforcement methods from immobilisation to ticketing. The Government’s view is that the disclosure of keeper Under current arrangements, data can be obtained data is fair and reasonable if there is a breach of civil or electronically only by recognised members, although contract law—a factor highlighted by my right hon. they can be obtained manually by non-ATA members. Friend. Tracing people who do not comply with the However, we recognise that the provisions should be conditions for parking on private land is regarded in tightened, and in April we consulted on extending the most circumstances as reasonable. To ensure that the requirement for membership of an ATA to all parking data are used responsibly, the Driver and Vehicle Licensing enforcement companies, whether data are obtained Agency introduced in 2007 a requirement that data electronically or manually. could be obtained electronically only by companies that I am conscious of the time, and I want to cover most were members of an ATA—an approved trade association. of the main points raised today. Legislation is already in The only trade association currently accredited for being. For instance, the Protection from Harassment the private parking sector is the British Parking Association. Act 1997 ensures that we receive service free of harassment. To obtain and keep membership of the BPA, a company I recall the case raised by my right hon. Friend of the must abide by a strict code of practice. The provisions lady who had received a threatening telephone call. of the code include the requirement for appropriate Under the Administration of Justice Act 1970, it is an signs to be provided, which means that the contract for offence to claim payment of a contractual debt in ways using that land would in most circumstances fall within that cause alarm, distress or humiliation. We also have the Government’s consumer protection legislation. Not consumer protection legislation. only is there a need for signage, but to comply with BPA Given the points raised this afternoon, I believe that membership a company must have a contract with the we need to continue our work across various Departments. landowner, use trained staff and operate dispute resolution There is no question about that. However, the BPA will procedures. Indeed, BPA companies are encouraged to be well aware of the cases raised by my right hon. use liveried vehicles and to use the BPA’s charge structure. Friend. We need to ensure that the strict codes of the I listened carefully to my right hon. Friend’s comments BPA, which are normally followed through properly, about the experience of some of her constituents; are enforced in this case. 127WH 3 JUNE 2009 Back Pain Treatment (Costs) 128WH

Back Pain Treatment (Costs) confirm that. The guidelines open up wonderful opportunities for the further development and roll-out of complementary services in the health service. 4.30 pm In low back pain the Minister has found a wonderful David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): It is, as always, a target, given the massive amount of time taken off pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Bayley, work because of it. It is a very big problem—not only is during today’s final debate. It is also a pleasure to see the Minister nodding, but so are you, Mr. Bayley. I the Minister in his place; no doubt he has come hotfoot could hardly receive a greater vote of confidence without from his Department. As he well knows—I arranged a going through the Division Lobby. But anyway, about little pre-briefing for him—I shall address the issue of 20 per cent. of people with low back pain—one in 15 of low back pain costs and the relationship to complementary the population—will consult their GP about it. As an and alternative medicine and integrated health care, exercise programme, NICE has recommended a course and I shall refer specifically to the National Institute for of manual therapy, which includes osteopathy or Health and Clinical Excellence’s new guidelines, in which chiropractic, or a course of acupuncture, and GPs can his Department no doubt had a hand. offer a range of options if necessary. I should like to provide some background. In 1914 So what are the problems? The first, which I hope the General Medical Council issued a warning notice to that the Minister will talk about, is roll-out. How will qualified doctors, directing that there should be no people access these services across the country? Until associating with unqualified persons or collusion with very recently, most were provided privately. There is a therapists using alternative therapies without the appropriate postcode lottery. It is estimated that only 10 per cent. of qualifications and registration with the GMC. We have primary care trusts currently refer any patients for moved on light years since then, and there have been osteopathic treatment, despite more than 7 million three defining moments in the pursuit of the integration osteopathic treatments being carried out in the UK of complementary and alternative medicine in the health each year. And what is the cost to the economy? In service. I say that with 20 years’ experience in the 2006, 175 million working days were lost, at a cost of House, during which time, as the Minister knows, I have between £103 billion and £129 billion. We are talking led debates on this subject on many occasions. about astronomical sums of money. According to the The first milestone came in the 1990s when the then Department for Work and Pensions’ figures, a combination Member for Loughborough, my right hon. Friend the of stress and musculoskeletal disorders accounts for up Member for Charnwood (Mr. Dorrell), while Under- to 75 per cent. of work-related sickness. The Government Secretary of State at the Department of Health, introduced could hardly have chosen a better target for this new policy. guidelines stating that doctors could contract with complementary and alternative medical practitioners Much action is needed, however. Studies have indicated provided that they took clinical responsibility. That was the existence of a turning point: after four to six weeks the first time that the health service moved towards the the likelihood of an employee with low back pain provision of care with complementary and alternative returning to work rapidly falls. We need to be very practitioners. Running almost in parallel came the aware of that window. Although the new NICE guidelines Osteopaths Act 1993 and Chiropractors Act 1994, which for persistent low back pain are welcome in increasing were introduced as private Members’ Bills. I had the the options for both patients and clinicians, I respectfully honour to serve on both Committees. For the first time suggest to the Minister that we need to consider greater osteopathy and chiropractic were regulated by Acts of options during the stage prior to the sixth week. Parliament and started to develop their own registers, I want to comment on the three main disciplines, and which were later recognised. then address some other issues, such as the attacks The second milestone was a House of Lords report in made in the press, and the Health Bill, which no doubt 2000 that, for the first time, officially categorised the the Minister is looking forward to serving on—I think different types of therapies into broad classifications, that Second Reading is on Monday. I myself have making it easier for legislators, the Department and experienced all three treatments. Many years ago, I had Members of Parliament to think about complementary a bad fall and broke some vertebrae in my back, and I and alternative medicine. This debate focuses on disciplines am grateful to both osteopaths and chiropractors for inthefirstcategory—osteopathy,chiropracticandacupuncture, putting me back together, rather like Humpty Dumpty— which are referred to in the new NICE guidelines. Some although hopefully sizeism is not an issue here. An of the recommendations in the Lords report have been American Senator said to me the other day that all implemented, but others have not. In the nine years health care basically relates to diet and exercise, and I since, there has not been the growth in access to complementary am inclined to agree with regard to the origins of therapies through the NHS that we might have expected, problems. But anyway, I must not digress, Mr. Bayley, despite the enormous public demand for such services. because you might call me to order. So there is a bit of a lag there. Osteopathy and manipulation, as distinct from The third milestone is the recent publication of NICE’s physiotherapy, offer fantastic relief for people whose guidelines on low back pain. Finally, NICE has issued back matrix is out of order, and some very good studies guidelines to physicians suggesting that complementary have supported this conclusion. In 1999, the Royal therapies, whether osteopathy, chiropractic or acupuncture, College of General Practitioners concluded that osteopathic can be employed for a given period and that patients manipulation can provide pain reduction and an can use any of them. This is a tremendous breakthrough improvement in activity levels. The UK back pain exercise because, as I understand it, the guidelines are backed by and manipulation—UK BEAM—trial, funded by the carefully controlled studies that have given the Department Medical Research Council, also came up with some the confidence to do this. Perhaps the Minister can positive results, as have other health service studies. 129WH Back Pain Treatment (Costs)3 JUNE 2009 Back Pain Treatment (Costs) 130WH

[David Tredinnick] He goes on to define chiropractic as “an invention of a 19th century salesman.” For example, the Oxford and Buckinghamshire Mental Such people are working in the Minister’s hospitals. Health NHS Foundation Trust found that Can he not send out a warning shot to them, to say that “rapid access to an osteopath can prevent or reduce sickness now that these therapies are available on the health absence and allow employees to benefit physically from early service, we want no more of this nonsense about science? intervention”. I look forward to the Minister’s reply. Many of the press reports that have been positive about the NICE guidelines point out that the cost of bringing in such treatments will probably be, at the very least, no 4.44 pm cost at all because of the savings made. The treatments The Minister of State, Department of Health (Phil may even have a positive outcome for health budgets at Hope): Let me being by congratulating the hon. Member a time when we have an overburdened health service—we for Bosworth (David Tredinnick) on securing this debate could make another speech on that and the Minister about the cost to the NHS of treating back pain. He has could reply. Anything that can reduce demand on quite clearly shown his depth of experience and interest conventional services and give surgeons more time to in the subject, which he has gained from his personal operate must be a good thing. experience and use of various therapies. Moreover, he We have studies, such as the 1990 British Medical does a huge amount of work in this House as the joint Journal study, that are very supportive of chiropractic. Chair of the all-party parliamentary group for integrated The Clinical Standards Advisory Group study in 1994 and complementary health care. I expected a fairly found that both chiropractic and osteopathy worked, impassioned call for a greater regard for complementary and the Wiltshire study in 1999 also referred to the use medicine, and I was not disappointed. of chiropractic. Although that is a good body of work, Anyone who has suffered from chronic back pain we need more research because then the Minister will knows just what a debilitating condition it can be. In the feel confident in allowing other forms of treatment to worst case, it can devastate people’s careers, their family be used. For example, cardiac problems, upper back life, their leisure time and their entire psychological problems, lower limb problems and circulatory problems well-being if it is not properly addressed. The chief could all be helped through chiropractic, osteopathy medical officer made that point abundantly clear in his and acupuncture. A significant body of research supports recent annual report, which found that people with the view that osteoporosis, post-operative pain, neck chronic pain are seven times more likely to quit their pain, headaches, nausea and vomiting can all benefit jobs due to ill health, and that a quarter end up losing from acupuncture. I have used the treatment extensively their jobs. to improve my own health. I believe that it has improved my eyesight, too, because I have had to reduce the I was interested in the figures that the hon. Gentleman strength of my glasses. I think that was due to the mentioned. Regrettably, back pain is on the rise. It is at treatment of internal organs, which improved my ability least twice as common as it was 40 years ago. Some to circulate energy. I have no scientific proof that that is 7.8 million people in the UK have suffered moderate to the case, but I believe it to be so. severe pain lasting more than six months. More than 1.6 million people develop back pain lasting more than To help pave the way forward, primary care three months. commissioners need to be given effective advice. I have been asking for advice in the Chamber for years. The The hon. Gentleman was right to point out the time has come for NICE to give its blessing to osteopathy, considerable financial cost to the NHS. According to chiropractic and acupuncture. Please get some advice one report published in 2000, the cost to the NHS of out to health care commissioners about how to do that. treating back pain stood at around £1 billion a year in We need a review of existing NICE guidance on 1998. We can assume that that figure has increased since complementary and alternative therapies. NICE has then. He used some other remarkable figures about the recently incorporated the National Electronic Library wider cost to the community. The study that I have just for Health into the newly launched NHS service. It will mentioned demonstrated the price that was paid by the now be possible for NICE to review that guidance, wider community. It estimated that the total cost to which it has previously produced on a range of conditions, society then was somewhere between £6.6 billion and and to assess the potential to include CAM research £12.3 billion, of which lost productivity accounted for bases there. There should be increased investment in at least £3.5 billion. Clearly, we have an issue that we CAM research, which could be modelled on that produced need to address, and to continue to address in the way in the US or Australia. In Australia, there is the National that we have in the past few years. Institute for Complementary Medicine, which might be The hon. Gentleman was right to emphasise the a very good model for this country. importance of effective treatment for those who are I was about to call you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Mr. Bayley. unfortunate enough to suffer from this condition. I We used to call you that in what was the Grand Committee definitely share his pleasure at the final clinical guideline Room. We served on the Committee of the Channel on lower back pain that was published by NICE last Tunnel Rail Link Bill in that room for a year—long week. As he said, that guideline is based on the best enough to walk to Madrid and back. Anyway, to return available evidence, and it provides detailed advice for to the debate, I am concerned about some misleading GPs and other clinicians on what treatments should be attacks in the press by people who should know better. considered for patients presenting with lower back pain David Colquhoun, professor of pharmacology at University for more than six weeks. That is an important step College hospital, states that despite all the evidence forward. Like him, I hope that it is a spur to encourage acupuncture is the NHS to do even more to help those whose lives are “a rather theatrical placebo”. blighted by chronic back pain. 131WH Back Pain Treatment (Costs)3 JUNE 2009 Back Pain Treatment (Costs) 132WH

I should like to put on the record my thanks to On implementation, NICE has developed detailed Professor Martin Underwood, the chair of the guideline guidance on costings and commissioning, which is available development group, to Professor Paul Watson, the clinical on its website. Obviously, it includes advice on the full adviser, and to other members of the group for their range of treatments set out in the guideline. However, very thorough consideration and for the clarity of the guidelines are just that. Decisions on what treatments resulting guideline. GPs suggest for patients remain with GPs. They need to take into account the safety of a treatment, its effectiveness The work by NICE builds on the work that we have and the availability of suitably qualified practitioners, already done to improve access to specialist pain services but they are obviously best placed to know the individual of all kinds. The hon. Gentleman will forgive me for circumstances of the patient. Likewise, the commissioning saying that, because of the amount that we have invested of local services must remain at the discretion of local in the NHS, we have moved from a position in 1998 PCTs, based on their understanding of the needs of where the typical waiting time for access to specialist their local community. pain services was 16 weeks for non-urgent cases, a quarter of patients had to wait for more than 28 weeks Maintaining autonomy for local practitioners to make and, in the worst cases, patients had to wait nearly three local decisions is paramount for running an effective years to be seen. Thankfully, the situation is now much NHS, even though it means some variations in services. better. Waiting times for pain clinics, as for other specialist The hon. Gentleman used the term “postcode lottery”. services, have been brought down to an absolute maximum The Government believe—I hope he agrees with us—that of 18 weeks, and the average wait across all specialities the closer to the community and the patients we go, the is now four weeks for out-patient treatment, or nine better the decisions. It would be entirely inappropriate weeks for treatment requiring an in-patient stay. for a Minister to promote one treatment over others, however effective it is. Ultimately, decisions about the As part of that 18-week initiative, we are doing more most appropriate treatment for a patient must be made to support local commissioners and clinicians in helping by them and their GP. patients to manage chronic pain. For instance, we now have generic guidance to support the 18-week programme, A number of developments should help to ensure and the Department of Health will be holding a series that the full range of NICE-approved treatments, including of regional seminars on chronic pain management, complementary treatments, gets a fair hearing with bringing together members of voluntary organisations, clinicians, commissioners and patients. First, last year’s patients, commissioners and providers. All of that should Next Stage Review clearly set out a future for the NHS stand us in good stead in ensuring that the NICE in which primary care services are increasingly influenced guidelines on low back pain are properly implemented. by the patient’s individual needs. The review clearly I shall say more about that in a moment. states that GPs and PCTs should have an innovative and entrepreneurial approach to developing new services Let me turn to the role of complementary therapies, for patients. We are beginning to see a culture change which was the central point of the hon. Gentleman’s throughout the NHS that should encourage GPs and contribution. He is right to state that complementary commissioners to be more creative, ambitious and flexible treatments, such as acupuncture and spinal manipulation, about the treatments they offer. That shift presents are represented in the guidelines, alongside the use of new opportunities for complementary and alternative painkillers, structured exercise programmes and patient therapies. education. The Government’s position on back pain, as with all other conditions, is quite straightforward. We want to open up the fullest possible range of treatments David Tredinnick: Will the Minister assure me that he to patients—but only if the evidence base is there to will write, on the basis of this new development, a justify it. Our position on complementary therapies, as general instruction about the availability of the new it is on any form of treatment that NICE considers, is service, so that there is no confusion? that we keep an open mind. If the experts tell us that acupuncture or other forms of manipulative therapies, including chiropractic therapies, osteopathy or Phil Hope: As I said earlier, such decisions are ultimately physiotherapy, can be effective, as they have done in this a matter for the GP and local commissioners, who look case, we are happy to see them added to the clinical at the NICE guidelines. I want to assure the hon. armoury available on the NHS. Gentleman that we are doing what we can to draw attention to the new guideline, which was published The hon. Gentleman was right to ask, “That’s fine, only last week. That will make a big difference. Generally but is it going to happen in practice? Is it going to be encouraging the NHS to be more entrepreneurial and delivered on the ground? Can we ensure that what is responsive, and to offer a full range of treatments, will written in a NICE guideline is what happens in practice have a direct impact of the kind that we would both like. when a patient goes to a GP with back pain?” The NHS has proved to be very responsive on the issue of back Personal health budgets, which we are piloting at this pain in tending to its own staff. Interestingly, in 2003, stage, could be a powerful mechanism to broaden the the National Audit Office estimated that an NHS trust range of available options. We are not being prescriptive with a budget of £100 million was likely to be paying about the areas for personal health budgets that should out £1.25 million for staff who could not work because be piloted, but through some 40 pilots, we want to of back injuries. I am delighted to say that since that investigate the use of personal health budgets to provide time, the NHS has achieved a 7 per cent. reduction in services for people with long-term conditions, which lost days from musculoskeletal problems, so within the could include people with chronic back pain. The NHS at least, there is a strong awareness of the issue provisional pilots are still developing their proposals and action is being taken. and we will know more about their scope in due course. 133WH Back Pain Treatment (Costs)3 JUNE 2009 Back Pain Treatment (Costs) 134WH

[Phil Hope] As he said, he played an important role when, during his long service in the House, he sat on the Committee However, in time, personal health budgets could indeed that brought the regulations into being. be another mechanism to support the wider use of We will, however, soon be launching a public consultation complementary medicine in back pain relief, if, of course, on whether and how we should regulate practitioners of the patient wants to go down that route. acupuncture, herbal medicine and traditional Chinese The hon. Gentleman mentioned research. The medicine. That comes from the recommendations of Department of Health commissions research to underpin one of the working groups that were established in 2006 policy and practice in health and health care through to implement proposals in the “Trust, Assurance and the National Institute for Health Research and the Safety” White Paper, so there is more work under way. Department’s policy research programme. Our research Once the consultation is completed and when we have programme includes £3.4 million for a complementary assessed the response, Ministers will make a decision on and alternative medicine personal award scheme. That the way forward. forms part of our research capacity development People with chronic back pain expect the NHS to do programme. The scheme currently supports 18 CAM its utmost to help them to manage their condition. The researchers at the doctoral and post-doctoral level. They new NICE guidelines will bring new clarity and choice are developing a programme of research and nurturing to patients, in line with the Next Stage Review vision the methodological skills of the more junior researchers and the work we are doing to improve pain management in their teams. Their presence in the programme has in general. I expect clinicians and commissioners to pay allowed factors specific to CAM practice to be incorporated equal attention to the full range of options that the new into approved research methodologies. That is an important NICE guidelines advocate. The Government are playing step forward. their part to ensure that all scientifically proven treatments We are also funding complementary and alternative are considered on their merits, including complementary medicine evidence online, which is a collaboration between techniques. the Research Council for Complementary Medicine The bottom line is quite simple: we want all patients and the university of Westminster school of integrated to have access to the best possible treatments for them. I health. That involves a detailed review and critical believe that the NICE guidelines are another important appraisal of the published research into specific step towards achieving that for people suffering with complementary therapies, focusing on their use in NHS the misfortune of chronic back pain. A debate such as priority areas. The Department has also put money into this is another good opportunity to raise public awareness research on the role of CAM in cancer patient care, and of the changes that are being made and of the enthusiasm on the use of complementary medicine in primary care. of the hon. Gentleman and others for our work, and to Finally, regulation is crucial when it comes to giving ensure that patients, GPs and commissioners take the alternative techniques the credibility and respect that issue seriously and take it forward in the interests of the they need in the eyes of GPs and the general public. At wider community. present, there is no statutory regulation system in the Question put and agreed to. UK governing the practice of complementary and alternative medicine, with the exception, as the hon. 4.59 pm Gentleman said, of chiropractic therapy and osteopathy. Sitting adjourned. 11WS Written Ministerial Statements3 JUNE 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 12WS

Schengen Information System. These conclusions propose Written Ministerial that the development of SISII continues on the basis of the current SISII platform with stronger project Statements management in place and milestones to assess progress. The conclusions propose a contingency plan based on a SIS I platform be retained until tests defined in the Wednesday 3 June 2009 project milestones are successfully completed. Ministers will also be asked to adopt Council conclusions on a co-ordinated EU approach to the closing of the Guantanamo Bay detention centre. The UK supports DEFENCE the draft Council conclusions believing them to be clear and not tying any member state into receiving ex-detainees, whilst providing a framework for those that do. The Repatriation Policy UK has already taken 14 ex-detainees, either British nationals or individuals previously legally resident in the UK. There is one UK resident remaining in The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): Guantanamo and the Government are committed to The Ministry of Defence has recently amended its securing his release. The UK will not be accepting policy for the repatriation of deceased service personnel additional detainees. from operational theatres. Henceforth, all servicemen and women who die on operations overseas will be The presidency will provide an update on the afforded a ceremonial repatriation, regardless of the implementation of the regulation establishing the Visa manner of their death. Information System (VIS). The UK does not participate in this regulation. Under a strict application of the previous policy, only those personnel ‘killed in action’ or who ‘died of wounds’ After the Mixed Committee there will be a political acquired as a result of enemy action qualified for a debate on the asylum package to take forward development ceremonial repatriation. The policy for all other fatalities of the common European asylum system. This package suffered in operational theatres was that while they consists of five asylum proposals recently published by would be repatriated with all due dignity, any ceremony the Commission: the Asylum Reception Conditions would be reserved for a military funeral if the family Directive, Dublin and Eurodac Regulations, the European requested one. Asylum Support Office and European Refugee Fund. However, it has been our recent practice to ensure With the exception of the Reception Conditions Directive, that all fatalities from operational theatres are afforded the UK has opted-in to all of these measures. The UK a ceremonial repatriation unless their families expressly will outline its vision on what the EU should be doing request otherwise. This best meets the expectation of on asylum and encourage further in-depth discussion families of deceased personnel, the services and nation; on the direction of the proposals. that those who die while serving their country on operations, The Commission will present a progress report on the whatever the actual circumstances of their death, should development of guidelines, due to be published in July, be honoured on their return. It is therefore right and on the implementation and application of the Free proper that we ensure our policy is brought in line with Movement Directive (2004/3 8/EC). The UK is working what is a wholly appropriate practice. with the Commission to ensure the guidelines will allow There are no plans to amend the policy for the member states to deal with individuals who abuse the movement of deceased personnel within the United right to free movement. The UK will also use this Kingdom, including Northern Ireland. opportunity to stress the importance of free movement issues in the future Justice and Home Affairs (JHA) work programme (Stockholm programme). The Council will discuss key issues around combating HOME DEPARTMENT illegal immigration in the Mediterranean, focusing in particular on work with Libya. The Government recognise the significance of these immigration flows and support Justice and Home Affairs Council strong EU co-operation on this issue. This discussion will continue over lunch. The Council will then receive a presentation from the The Minister for Borders and Immigration (Mr. Phil EU counter-terrorism co-ordinator Gilles de Kerchove Woolas): The Justice and Home Affairs (JHA) Council on the implementation of the EU strategy and action will be held in Luxembourg on 4 and 5 June 2009. My plan to combat terrorism, progress made over the last noble Friends Admiral Lord West and Lord Bach, and six months and priorities for the future. the Scottish Cabinet Secretary for Justice, Kenny MacAskill, will attend on behalf of the United Kingdom. The The presidency will then update the Council on four following issues will be discussed at the Council: EU external relations meetings held recently: the ministerial The Council will start in Mixed Committee with troikas EU-US and EU-Ukraine; EU-Russian Federation Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Liechtenstein, during JHA permanent partnership Council and the recent which Ministers will be asked to adopt Council conclusions conference held in Prague on building migration on the future direction of the second generation of the partnerships. 13WS Written Ministerial Statements3 JUNE 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 14WS

Under any other business, there will be a presentation LEADER OF THE HOUSE by the Commission, at Slovenia’s request, on the state of play concerning visa liberalisation in the western Topical Debates Balkans. Justice Ministers will be invited to consider two proposed The Leader of the House of Commons (Ms Harriet regulations providing mechanisms for negotiation and Harman): To Note: The list includes all requests and conclusion of bilateral agreements in the area of civil whether they have been submitted on the floor of the and family law, where there is external Community House, by letter, e-mail or another method. Weeks competence. These regulations are in principle welcome, where there were no such requests are not included. although the Government would have preferred the Week commencing 2 February 2009 regulation concerning choice of law to be wider in “Planning for Adverse Weather Conditions” (Business Questions) scope. “Adverse Weather” (Business Questions) The presidency will present draft conclusions on the “National Dementia Strategy” (Business Questions) common frame of reference on contract law. These “Adverse Weather” (Business Questions) assert, among other things, that the common frame of Week commencing 9 February 2009 reference should be a non-binding “toolkit”for legislators. “Free Pensioner Travel” (Business Questions) The Government agree with this approach and can “Pensioners and Savings” (Business Questions) accept the proposed conclusions. “Public Sector Pensions” (Business Questions) Ministers will be informed about the first reading Week commencing 2 March 2009 deal on ship source pollution agreed with the European “Child Poverty” (Letter) Parliament on 5 May. “Sudan” (Business Questions and E-mail) “Public Sector Broadcasting” (Business Questions) The presidency will seek Council endorsement of the final report on the fourth round of evaluations of the Week commencing 9 March 2009 practical operation of the European Arrest Warrant “Child Poverty and the Economy” (Letter) (EAW). This follows mutual evaluations of how each “Local Media and the Recession” (Business Questions) member state has implemented the framework decision. “Local Media and the Recession” (Business Questions) The UK welcomes the importance the report places on “Child Poverty” (Business Questions) addressing the issue of proportionality in the context of Week commencing 16 March 2009 the EAW “Child Poverty and the Economy” (E-mail) There will be a discussion of the new proposed “Hospices” (Business Questions) framework decision on combating sexual abuse and “Asbestos” (Business Questions) exploitation of children (repealing Framework Decision Week commencing 23 March 2009 2004/681/JHA). The Government broadly welcome this “Charitable Giving and Hospice Care” (Business Questions) proposal, and will be seeking to improve it during “Surface Water Charges” (Business Questions) negotiations. The presidency will report on negotiations Week commencing 30 March on the proposal for a framework decision on preventing “UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities” and combating human trafficking in human beings, (Letter) and protecting victims (repealing Framework Decision “Tourism” (Business Questions) 2002/629/JHA). The Government welcome this framework decision, recognising the importance of adopting a “EDM 1182 on Manufacturing” (Business Questions) co-ordinated EU-wide approach, and will seek to promote Week commencing 20 April 2009 a balanced approach between prevention, enforcement “Sri Lanka” (E-mail) and victim support, in order to ensure measures are “Sri Lanka” (Telephone) most effective. Week commencing 4 May 2009 There will also be a state of play report on the work “Child Protection” (Business Questions) on European e-justice during the Czech presidency. “Learning and Skills Council Funding” (Business Questions) “Prison Sentences” (Business Questions) The presidency proposes to provide information about Week commencing 11 May 2009 implementation of the resolution made under the French “Climate Change” (Business Questions) presidency on training of judges. “The Economy” (Business Questions) Under any other business, information will be provided Week commencing 18 May 2009 on the recent conference on succession and wills, on the “Pakistan” (Business Questions) follow up to the discussion during the April Justice and During this period there have been the following Topical Home Affairs Council on the financial crisis, on the free Debates: trade agreement between the EU and the Republic of “Sri Lanka” on 5 February 2009 South Korea, and on a project called “Beyond Winning” “Local and Regional News” on 19 March 2009 undertaken by the ADR centre in Rome. Slovenia will “Sri Lanka” on 14 May 2009 provide information about its chairmanship of the Council In addition the topical debate on Thursday 4 June of Europe. will be “The Economy: Supporting Business”. 477W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 478W

Written Answers to Local authority Site name Year permitted (unitary or county)

Biocycle South 2006 Shropshire county Questions Shropshire, Ludlow council Milton Ernest, 2006 Bedfordshire county Wednesday 3 June 2009 Bedfordshire Biogen council Norfolk 2008 Norfolk county Environmental council/ South Waste Services, Norfolk district ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE Costessey Resource council Recovery Park Elections: Local Government Brookhurst Wood 2009 West Sussex county council Bob Spink: To ask the hon. Member for South West Wanlip AD Plant 2009 Leicestershire county council Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission what guidance the Electoral Commission issues on the release of electoral packs to 41 sites that utilise biogases derived from anaerobic candidates at local elections and their agents. [277984] digestion under the pollution prevention and control (PPC) regulations have been permitted across England Mr. Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me within the last five years. Environment Agency records that it issues guidance to local government returning do not specify the local authority for PPC sites. officers advising that packs containing nomination papers, an election timetable and guidance notes for prospective Permit effective local election candidates should be prepared well before Primary name County from date the start of the formal election period and supplied on 1 Minworth Sewage West Midlands 6 August 2008 request. Treatment Works The Commission has also published performance (STW) standards for returning officers in Great Britain. In order 2 Runcorn Waste Cheshire 24 October 2007 to meet performance standard seven, “Communication Water Treatment of information to candidates and agents”, returning Works (WWTW) officers must ensure that candidates and election agents 3 Kew Biothane Surrey 19 August 2008 are offered briefing sessions and are issued with written Plant 4 Gatewarth Cheshire 24 October 2007 guidance on the election process. Industrial Estate 5 Liverpool Merseyside 24 October 2007 (WWTW) ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS 6 The Causeway Greater Manchester 24 October 2007 7 Ringley Road GreaterManchester 2 March 2009 Agriculture: Subsidies 8 Coney Lane Merseyside 24 October 2007 9 St. Helens Merseyside 24 October 2007 (WWTW) Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for 10 Dukinfield Cheshire 14 November 2008 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what percentage (WWTW) of claims for single farm payments made in 2008 have 11 Davyhulme Lancashire 26 February 2009 not yet been settled. [277872] WWTW 12 Stockport Cheshire 24 October 2007 Jane Kennedy: The percentage of remaining claims (WWTW) expected to receive a payment under the 2008 Single 13 Bury (WWTW) Lancashire 24 October 2007 Payment Scheme is 1.2 per cent. 14 Tower Brewery North Yorkshire 8 November 2005 15 Minworth (STW) West Midlands 4 October 2007 Agriculture: Waste Disposal 16 Bunns Bank Norfolk 2 February 2004 17 Millbrook Hampshire 17 October 2008 Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, (WWTW) Food and Rural Affairs how many proposals for anaerobic 18 Costessey Norfolk 22 December 2008 digestion plants have been licensed by each local authority Resource in each of the last five years. [275798] Recovery Park 19 Rye Meads Hertfordshire 19 December 2006 Jane Kennedy: Prior to the implementation of the Combined Heat Environmental Permitting Regulations in 2007, waste and Power Plant 20 Maple Lodge Hertfordshire 29 March 2006 disposal and waste recovery operations were regulated (STW) under separate legislation. Environment Agency records 21 Deephams (STW) Greater London 19 December 2006 are therefore split between the two different information 22 Bran Sands Cleveland 14 April 2005 systems used. These systems are currently in the process of being integrated. 23 Bran Sands Cleveland 29 September 2006 24 Thames House Berkshire 20 December 2006 Five anaerobic digestion plants have been permitted 25 Oxford (STW) Oxfordshire 20 December 2006 by the Environment Agency in the last five years under 26 Reading (STW) Berkshire 19 December 2006 waste management licensing regulations. 479W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 480W

DEFRA also carries out international disease surveillance Permit effective Primary name County from date work and takes emergency safeguard action to restrict or ban imports from countries that have reported an 27 Bristol Waste Avon 19 December 2006 outbreak of disease. Water Treatment 28 John Smith’s North Yorkshire 12 March 2008 Biofuels Brewery 29 Tower Brewery North Yorkshire 12 March 2008 Mr. Kidney: To ask the Secretary of State for 30 Ainsbury House West Yorkshire 26 November 2008 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will bring 31 Wanlip (STW) Leicestershire 31 March 2006 forward proposals to expand the categories of used 32 Strongford (STW) Staffordshire 24 October 2007 cooking oil which may be classified as fuel under the 33 Crewe (WWTW) Cheshire 21 December 2006 proposed end-of-waste protocol. [276676] 34 Stoke Bardolph Nottinghamshire 11 October 2007 (STW) Jane Kennedy: In October 2007, the Environment 35 Mogden (STW) Middlesex 19 December 2006 Agency issued for public consultation a draft end-of-waste 36 United Utilities Lancashire 17 March 2006 protocol for “biodiesel derived from waste vegetable Water plc, oil”. Following consideration by the Agency of the Blackburn responses to that consultation, the terms of the protocol (WWTW) were expanded to cover “the production and use of Combined Heat biodiesel derived from waste cooking oil and rendered and Power Installation animal fat”. On this basis, a post-consultation draft of 37 Beddington Surrey 20 December 2006 the protocol was notified to the European Commission (STW) under the Technical Standards Directive (98/34/EC). 38 Ellesmere Port Cheshire 21 June 2007 The notification period required under the directive has (WWTW) now ended and the Agency proposes to publish the final 39 Budds Farm Hampshire 15 October 2008 protocol in the next few weeks; and to review the (WWTW) published protocol in June 2011. In the meantime, the 40 Finham (STW) West Midlands 3 October 2007 Agency has no plans further to expand the categories of 41 Wanlip (STW) Leicestershire 21 March 2005 waste covered by the protocol.

Animals: Imports Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control Mr. Streeter: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans he Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much was has to inoculate badgers in Devon against tuberculosis. spent on the screening of imported wildlife for [277478] potential diseases in the last 12 months; and if he will make a statement. [275940] Jane Kennedy: On 19 March 2009 my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State announced the initial Jane Kennedy: Animals and animal products are imported outline for a Badger Vaccine Deployment Project, which from EU member states and from third countries approved will see vaccination of badgers in six areas with high as having equivalent animal health status to an EU incidence of cattle TB in England. Each area will be up member state for the species in question. Strict EU rules to 100 sq km. are imposed to prevent disease entering the European Plans for the areas have not yet been finalised. As Community. potential areas emerge from our discussions with the As soon as an animal is captured and transported it farming industry, local engagement to encourage becomes a ‘kept animal’ and therefore animal health participation will be our highest priority. import legislation applies. This includes ensuring a veterinary health check is undertaken within the Economic and Monetary Union 24 hour period prior to loading at the country of origin in order to determine that no clinical signs of disease Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for are present—the cost is met by the importer. An animal Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what activities cannot travel to this country unless accompanied by a have been undertaken by his Department’s Euro valid veterinary health certificate. Live animals imported Minister in that capacity. [277169] from approved third countries must enter at a designated Jane Kennedy: Euro Ministers are responsible for Border Inspection Post (BIP) where they are again euro preparations in their Department and attend Euro subject to veterinary inspections for clinical signs of Ministers Steering Group meetings. Meetings are held disease and the accompanying health certificates are only when necessary to discuss practical preparations to verified. However, Animal Health does not keep a record ensure a smooth changeover. of the individual costs for imported animals tested as part of its disease prevention measures. Farming: Pigs When there is a significant increase in disease risk, DEFRA’s Global Animal Health Division will act quickly Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for to mitigate it, usually in concert with the EU. DEFRA Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether his may take unilateral safeguard measures to block legal Department has (a) undertaken and (b) commissioned imports from countries or regions with outbreaks of research on the effect in (i) England and (ii) elsewhere of disease. Recent imports of animals which might present intensive pig farming on developments in swine influenza. a risk would also be traced and checked. [276852] 481W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 482W

Jane Kennedy: DEFRA is currently funding research the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, HM Revenues at the Veterinary Laboratories Agency looking at cross and Customs, the Department for Business, Enterprise species transmission of influenza viruses. This work has and Regulatory Reform and the Food Standards Agency been ongoing for a number of years. While this research to consider the clarity of labelling of produce from the is not specifically focused on the effects of intensive West Bank. farming, it seeks to give us a better understanding of the mechanisms involved in cross species transmission Renewable Energy: Waste and hence to better understand the risks. DEFRA funds a surveillance programme for swine Mr. Kidney: To ask the Secretary of State for influenza in England and Wales. This is delivered by Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what representations Veterinary Laboratories Agency and has been in operation his Department has received from the business sector since 1991. Private veterinary practitioners can submit on the effect of the operation of the Environmental samples for swine influenza testing in cases where this Permitting Regulations 2007 on businesses involved in disease is suspected. This testing is performed free of the manufacture of fuels from waste. [276286] charge. Under this programme, samples are tested from pig herds from various types of production system. If Jane Kennedy: DEFRA officials have received virus is isolated from a sample, further genetic analysis correspondence from companies whose business involves is performed to determine if there is any evidence that the processing of waste to produce fuels about various the virus may be genetically different from commonly issues arising from the Court of Appeal ruling in the seen swine influenza viruses in the UK. In addition, a case of OSS Group v. Environment Agency. Officials at random subset of influenza viruses is subjected to further the Environment Agency have also held meetings with genetic analysis. The aim of the programme is to identify the companies concerned to discuss these issues. any unusual changes in swine influenza viruses and to Waste Disposal: Fees and Charges monitor the natural evolution of the virus over time.

Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many pig Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what guidance farms he has visited in his official capacity in the last (a) his Department, (b) the Waste Improvement Network 12 months. [277334] and (c) the Waste and Resources Action Programme has issued on fixed penalty notices in relation to (i) Jane Kennedy [holding answer 1 June 2009]: My right closed lid policies, (ii) no side waste collection policies hon. Friend the Secretary of State has visited two pig and (iii) putting household waste out at the wrong time. farms in the last 12 months. [275786] Genetically Modified Organisms Jane Kennedy: DEFRA has not provided any guidance on the use of fixed penalty notices other than what is Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for available on its website at: Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which genetically- http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/localenv/legislation/ modified products are authorised for sale in the UK. cnea/fixed-penalty-guidance.pdf [277132] This does not refer to (i) closed lid policies, (ii) no side waste collection policies and (iii) putting household Jane Kennedy: Decisions on the commercial release rubbish out at the wrong time. of genetically modified (GM) products are taken at Neither the Waste Improvement Network (WIN) nor European Union (EU) level. Currently there are 27 GM the Waste and Resources Action Programme have issued products that are authorised for food and animal feed any such guidance. uses in the EU. Full details are available on the European Zoos: EU Law Commission website. Only one type of GM crop seed has EU approval for cultivation and is being sold in Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for some EU member states. It is a type of insect-resistant Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment maize known as MON 810, and it is not being marketed he has made of the (a) financial and (b) other effects in the UK because it is unsuitable for our growing on zoos of EU regulations banning feeding of necrophagous conditions. birds with category one material; and if he will seek an Overseas Trade: Palestinians opt-out from the regulations. [277087] Jane Kennedy: No assessment of the financial and Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for other effects on zoos of banning the feeding of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what the necrophagous birds with category one material has outcome was of the meeting of 31 March 2009 on been made. The EU Animal by-products regulation voluntary guidance on the labelling of food produce 1774/2002/EC only permits the feeding of category one from the West Bank; [276766] material to endangered or protected species of (2) when he expects to announce proposals on necrophagous birds and other species living in their voluntary guidance on the labelling of food produce natural habitat, for the promotion of biodiversity.However, from the West Bank. [276767] it does permit member states to authorise the feeding of animal by-products which do not contain specified risk Jane Kennedy: Following the meeting on 31 March, material and other category one animal by-products to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs birds of prey and other carnivorous animals in zoos. is currently working with other Departments including The UK exercises this derogation. 483W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 484W

The European Council and Parliament are likely to I can assure you that TRANSEC and the Foreign shortly agree amendments to the regulation which, among and Commonwealth Office (FCO) hold a ‘Restricted’— other things, would allow member states to permit ‘Closed’ list of persons that are exempt, or may be feeding of certain category one material to necrophagous deemed as an exempted person, for the purpose of birds and other carnivorous animals in zoos. The UK aviation security screening and that this list is subject to would be looking to take advantage of such a provision periodical review. and understands that after the amended regulation is agreed, work will commence on laying down implementing Aviation: EU Law rules in Brussels which would permit such feeding while ensuring protection of animal and public health. Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport A derogation to permit the feeding of fallen stock to what assessment he has made of the likely effect of necrophagous birds is available to Spain, Italy, Greece, Regulation (EC) 80/2009 on a code of conduct for Portugal and France as part of approved conservation computerised reservation systems on UK (a) airlines measures for vultures. This derogation is not available and (b) internet ticket booking companies. [277188] in the UK. We understand that the Royal Society for the Jim Fitzpatrick: No assessment has been made of the Protection of Birds is content with the existing arrangement likely effect on UK airlines or internet ticket booking of the feeding of category 2 and 3 material (ie butchers’ companies of Regulation (EC) 80/2009 which entered waste) to wild necrophagous birds and that a derogation into force on 29 March 2009 and which updated and to permit the use of ruminant fallen stock as feed replaced previous European Community legislation in material is not, therefore, necessary. this field dating from 1989. Regulation (EC) 80/2009 results from a Commission proposal to simplify and update the Code to safeguard TRANSPORT its key principles while increasing its relevance to today’s Airports: Security market conditions. The Commission conducted a public consultation and an impact assessment when it proposed the legislation in 2007. Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Regulation (EC) 80/2009 as adopted should enhance Transport what standard security checks are operated the ability of airlines and Computerised Reservation at British airports for (a) economy class passengers, Systems (CRS) to negotiate competitive deals and bring (b) business class passengers, (c) first-class passengers, reductions in booking costs or increased travel options (d) very important persons, (e) Ministers, (f) the which benefit the consumer. The Government considered Prime Minister, (g) ministers of foreign governments, that full deregulation was not yet appropriate and that (h) foreign heads of governments and (i) foreign safeguards should remain in place to guard against heads of state. [276792] discriminatory behaviour, especially in view of the continued existence of some ownership links between airlines and Jim Fitzpatrick: The Department for Transport is some CRS. responsible for drafting UK aviation security regulations which are served on regulated airports within the UK in Departmental Billing the form of Directions. The Department operates a multi-layered approach to security that is proportionate Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State to and commensurate with the threat we are seeking to for Transport how much (a) his Department and (b) mitigate against. The primary objective is to protect the its agencies paid in interest to suppliers under the Late travelling public and, in respect of searching individuals, Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 in to ensure that prohibited articles are not transported the last three years for which figures are available. onto aircraft. Airports and airlines are responsible for [275194] implementing the security regulations and the Department operates a compliance regime that inspects and where Mr. Hoon: The Department for Transport has only necessary enforces the standards required. started to hold separate records for late payment of All passengers, including flight crew, staff, Ministers commercial debts since 2008-09. The interest cost for of the Government and Ministers of foreign governments, this year was £84,000. Information for the previous two regardless of class of travel, are subject to the following years could be provided only at a disproportionate cost standard security procedures: identity check, access controls, as the interest charge are not held separately for those security questions, 100 per cent. screening of hold and years. cabin baggage and 100 per cent. screening of the individual, The following agencies have not paid interest charges where necessary enhanced via a hand search and additional in the last three years: technological enhancements. Highways Agency In line with international protocols, and the UK’s Government Car and Despatch Agency international commitments in this respect, a relatively Vehicle Operator Services Agency small number of individuals in recognised positions are exempt from these screening procedures. This is in part Vehicle Certification Agency a reflection of the degree to which security, in various The following agencies can provide information only forms, accompanies such posts or individuals. at a disproportionate cost as they do not split the interest charges separately: You will appreciate that for obvious security reasons it is not possible for me to specifically detail the posts, Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency incumbents and security measures that apply in these Maritime and Coastguard Agency cases. Driving Standards Agency. 485W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 486W

Departmental Conditions of Employment Road Traffic

Mr. Leech: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will place in the Library a copy of the current how much his Department spent on contracts for collecting business plan for the flexible benefits project; and what data on congestion on roads in England in each of the estimate he has made of the level of take-up required last five years. [276463] for the scheme to break even. [277685] Paul Clark: The following table shows spending by Mr. Hoon: The flexible benefits business plan is a the Department for Transport and the Highways Agency confidential document so it would not be appropriate on contracts which wholly or mainly collect and/or for it to be placed in the House Library. However, we process congestion data. It does not include feasibility estimate that the level of take-up required to break even studies, research or analysis contracts. with the scheme is about 2 per cent. over three years. Spending (£000 excl. VAT) Financial year 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Departmental Security DFT 1,624 1,388 1,486 1,861 984 Danny Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for Highways 2,015 2,821 3,280 3,234 3,222 Agency Transport how many breaches of security have been reported at (a) the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Roads: Construction Agency, (b) the Driving Standards Agency, (c) the Government Car and Despatch Agency, (d) the Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Highways Agency, (e) the Maritime and Coastguard which road building programmes completed in each Agency, (f) the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency year since 2005 have affected areas of outstanding and (g) the Vehicle Certification Agency in the last five natural beauty and sites of special scientific interest. years; and what procedures each agency follows when a breach of security involves the disclosure of personal [276460] data. [276950] Paul Clark: I have today placed in the Libraries of the House tables identifying major road schemes, costing Mr. Hoon: Information on breaches of security for over £5 million, completed by local highway authorities the last five years for Department for Transport Agencies and the Highways Agency since 2005 and where the is not held centrally. scheme has affected (1) Areas of Outstanding Natural The Department and its agencies report all significant Beauty and (2) Sites of Special Scientific Interest. personal data security breaches to the Cabinet Office and the ICO. Information on personal data security Speed Limits: Chideock breaches are published on an annual basis in the Department’s annual resource accounts as was announced Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for in the Data Handling Review published on 25 June Transport when his Department plans to make a decision 2008. on the cases of people wrongly notified of speeding Additionally, all significant control weaknesses including offences as a result of the malfunctioning of the speed other significant security breaches are included in the camera on the A35 at Chideock following the expiry of Statement of Internal Control which is published within the March 2009 deadline for an announcement. [277485] the annual resource accounts. Paul Clark: The Highways Agency is currently working with the Dorset Safety Camera Partnership regarding Railways: Scotland speeding offences from a Traffic Regulation Order on the A35 at Chideock in Dorset, found by the courts to be invalid. Any announcement will come from the John Barrett: To ask the Secretary of State for partnership. The Highways Agency is working closely Transport pursuant to the answer of 14 May 2009, with them and it is anticipated that a statement will be Official Report, column 881W, on a London-Scotland made shortly. high-speed rail link, what topics were discussed during the meeting on 24 April 2009; and whether any decisions on funding methodology for high-speed rail links were made at that meeting. [276928] WALES Economic and Monetary Union Paul Clark: There was a general discussion about the potential benefits of high speed rail, including environmental Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales considerations; the possibility of modal shift; economic what activities have been undertaken by his Department’s priorities; and the consideration of the Scottish Euro Minister in that capacity. [277170] Government’s views as work is taken forward. It was noted there is still a great deal of work to be Mr. Paul Murphy: Euro Ministers are responsible for done in developing a business case and identifying Euro preparations in their Department and attend Euro funding solutions, and the Scottish Executive was Ministers Steering Group meetings. Meetings are held encouraged to engage with “High Speed Two” as this only when necessary to discuss practical preparations to work commences. ensure a smooth changeover. 487W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 488W

Radioactive Fallout BUSINESS, ENTERPRISE AND REGULATORY REFORM Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales whether the proposed Amendment to Schedule 5 British Airways of the Government of Wales Act 2006, as set out in the proposed Legislative Competence (Environment) Mr. Amess: To ask the Minister of State, Department Order 2009, Cm 7608, will cover land-based for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform how radioactive fallout other than at military sites. [276851] many officials of each grade from his Department and its predecessor were seconded to work with British Mr. Paul Murphy: It would enable the National Assembly Airways in each of the last five years; and if he will to legislate on radioactivity in these areas with certain make a statement. [269849] exceptions. The exceptions relate to nuclear energy and nuclear installations, including nuclear safety and liability Mr. McFadden: Secondments are not managed centrally for nuclear occurrences, (other than the disposal of very in the Department as they are delegated locally to line low level radioactive waste moved from nuclear licensed management. The information is not easily available sites) and the transport of radioactive material. and could be provided only at disproportionate cost.

Business: Government Assistance PRIME MINISTER Cabinet: Glasgow Mr. Newmark: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform how Mr. Hoban: To ask the Prime Minister what the cost many businesses have received assistance from the Capital was of holding the meeting of the Cabinet in Glasgow for Enterprise Fund; and how much funding has been on 16 April 2009. [274177] committed to date. [259008]

The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the Ian Pearson [holding answer 26 February 2009]: As answer I gave the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent from 20 May 2009, the Capital for Enterprise Fund has (Mr. Davies) on 7 May 2009, Official Report, column made offers totalling round £9 million to eight businesses. 378W.An additional invoice of £4,788 has been received for the venue. Stewart Hosie: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform when Domestic Visits: Costs the Capital Enterprise Scheme began to operate. [261374] Mr. Hands: To ask the Prime Minister pursuant to the answer of 21 January 2009, Official Report, column Ian Pearson: The Capital for Enterprise Fund was 1429W, on domestic visits: costs, when he expects the launched on 14 January 2009, when a registration helpline information requested to be available. [260394] was set up to manage inquiries and register applications. The Prime Minister: The information requested is not Business: South West separately available. However, the costs will be included in the overall Operating Cost Statement of the Cabinet Office Annual Report and Accounts, which will be Mr. Streeter: To ask the Minister of State, Department published in the usual manner before the summer recess. for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform what assistance the South West of England Regional Ministerial Policy Advisers Development Agency is providing to small and medium- sized businesses in the South West region during the Mr. Amess: To ask the Prime Minister who the members recession; and if he will make a statement. [277286] of the Special Advisers’ Remuneration Committee are; what specialist qualifications each holds; when each Mr. McFadden: The South West Regional Development was appointed and by whom; where the committee Agency’s activity to support SMEs during the recession holds its meetings; what the budget of the Committee is involves two key strands: for (a) office accommodation, (b) staff costs and (c) 1. Strategic Leadership travel and subsistence in the next 12 months; and if he will make a statement. [270077] The South West RDA is an integral part of the South West Regional Economic Task Group (RETG), chaired The Prime Minister: The Special Advisers’ Remuneration by the Regional Minister for the South West, which is Committee has existed in its current form since 2001. It responsible for coordinating the region’s overall response is chaired by the Leader of the House of Lords, and has to the recession. It leads on work strands focusing on as its members a HM Treasury Minister, a Cabinet business support, skills and employment, and green Office Minister, and a senior Cabinet Office official economic recovery. acting as an Accounting Officer. The Remuneration In December 2008 the RDA established a Regional Committee meetings are held on the Government Estate. Business Forum to enable regular dialogue with key The Remuneration Committee incurs no accommodation, business representative organisations in the region. It travel or subsistence costs. Support, including expertise acts as a sounding board for new plans and initiatives on remuneration issues, is provided from existing resources and provides business a voice to help shape policy within the Cabinet Office. development. 489W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 490W

Through its management of South West EU The total number of staff dismissed for reasons of programmes, the RDA is ensuring that over £1 billion under-performance, including both capability and of EU and domestic investment from 2007 to 2013 is attendance over the period 2002-08 inclusive is 25. A being targeted at improving the productivity of small breakdown by individual year cannot be provided on and medium-sized businesses in the South West. the grounds of confidentiality. 2. Support for Business I have asked the Chief Executives of Companies The RDA has been working to enhance the support House and Insolvency Service to provide separate data already available through the Government’s Solutions for the respective agencies. For Business services provided via the Business Link Letter from Gareth Jones, dated 3 June 2009: network. Since October 2008, Business Link has provided over 4,350 free Business Health Checks to local SMEs, I am replying on behalf of Companies House to your Parliamentary Question tabled on 6 May 2009, UIN 274184, to the Minister of and developed a Business Survival Guide to help small State for Business Enterprise and Regulatory Reform. businesses cope with the downturn and prepare for recovery. Companies House only has computer records of dismissals from 2004 onwards. The cost of obtaining information for previous On 14 April the RDA launched its £10 million business years would be disproportionate. loan fund which offers viable businesses with growth There have been no dismissals for under performance since potential loans of up to £250,000. This augments the 2004. The total number of dismissals is as follows: financial support available through the Government’s Real Help for Business support package launched earlier Number this year. The RDA organised eight workshops in April and 2004 1 May which provided 500 businesses in the region with 2005 5 advice, guidance and networking opportunities. 2006 8 2007 6 In November 2008 the RDA established eight Area 2008 3 Action Forces across the region to coordinate the public sector response to individual businesses in difficulty. 2009 to date 2 Letter from Stephen Speed, dated 3 June 2009: Departmental Disciplinary Proceedings The Minister of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform has asked me to reply to you directly in respect of your question (2008/2880) asking how many member of staff in his Mr. Paul Goodman: To ask the Minister of State, Department and its agencies were dismissed (a) for under-performance Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory and (b) in total in each of the last 10 years. Reform how many officials in his Department are The numbers of dismissals within The Insolvency Service are suspended; how many are suspended on full pay; for shown in the table below: how long each has been suspended; and what the reasons The figures shown for under-performance include dismissals are for each such suspension. [270523] due to unsatisfactory attendance:

Mr. McFadden: There are less than five current Dismissals for under- suspensions in the Department. The detailed information performance Total number of dismissals requested could lead to the identification of individuals and therefore cannot be provided for reasons of 1999 1 1 confidentiality. 2000 3 4 2001 5 9 2002 6 7 Departmental Dismissal 2003 4 4 2004 14 15 Chris Huhne: To ask the Minister of State, Department 2005 4 6 for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform how 2006 10 11 many members of staff in his Department and its 2007 12 16 agencies were dismissed (a) for under-performance and 2008 9 14 (b) in total in each of the last 10 years. [274184] 2009 (to 22 date) Mr. McFadden: The information is as follows.

Number of staff dismissed Departmental Lost Property

2002 10 2003 15 Paul Holmes: To ask the Minister of State, Department 2004 11 for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform what 2005 14 the cost of replacing lost or stolen property from his 2006 9 Department was in the last 12 months. [268036] 2007 11 2008 9 Mr. McFadden: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to the hon. Member for Glasgow, East (John Information for earlier years is not available. Mason) on 19 May 2009, Official Report, column 1333W. 491W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 492W

Departmental Marketing Mr. McFadden: There have been no breaches of security into Companies House main building or any items Ann Coffey: To ask the Minister of State, Department stolen. However, in the last five years, three bicycles for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform how were stolen from the car park and four laptops have much his Department has spent on placing advertisements been stolen from private premises. in (a) weekly and (b) regional newspapers in each of There have been no breaches of security relating to the last five years. [277067] personal data in the last five years. Companies House has a documented security incident procedure in line Mr. McFadden: The following was spent on regional with the requirements of HMGIA Standard No. 6 press advertising by the former DTI and its agencies via —Protecting Personal Data and Managing Information the Central Office of Information: Risk and the Security Framework. Any reportable breaches £ are recorded in Companies House Annual Report and Accounts. 2002-03 439,445 The Insolvency Service has experienced one breach 2003-04 641,875 of security in the last five years, namely the theft of four 2004-05 729,343 laptops from its Manchester office on 28 August 2008. 2005-06 364,982 Only one of the laptops contained personal data. The breach was reported to the police, Ministers, Cabinet The following was spent by the Department on national Office and the Information Commissioner’s Office. A and regional press advertising via the Central Office of press release was also issued in relation to the incident. Information, but cannot be broken down to show only spend on regional newspapers: The Insolvency Service follows Cabinet Office policies and procedures in dealing with notification of breaches £ involving personal data.

2006-07 675,522 2007-08 222,273 Departmental Stationery Departmental Official Cars Bob Spink: To ask the Minister of State, Department Bob Spink: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform how for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform pursuant much his Department and its predecessor spent on the to the answer of 12 February 2009, Official Report, purchase of (a) recycled office supplies in the last column 2298W, on official cars, how many of the cars 12 months and (b) printer ink cartridges in each of the owned by (a) his Department and (b) its agencies are last five years. [274209] over six years old. [276778] Mr. McFadden: BERR spend on recycled office supplies Mr. McFadden: BERR does not own any cars. in the last 12 months up to the end of April 2009 was I refer the hon. Member to the answer given by my £220,250. right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport BERR and its predecessor spent the following on on 21 May 2009, Official Report, column 1489W. printer ink cartridges in each of the last five years: I have approached the Chief Executives of the Insolvency Service and Companies House agencies and they will £ respond to the hon. Member directly. 2003-04 87,013.44 Letter from Gareth Jones, dated 3 June 2009: 2004-05 202,749.92 I am replying on behalf of Companies House to your Parliamentary 2005-06 235,448.49 Question tabled on 18 May 2009, UIN 276778, to the Minister of 2006-07 227,642.42 State for Business Enterprise and Regulatory Reform. 2007-08 202,015.25 Companies House does not own any cars. The only vehicle we do own is a van which is under six years old. 2008-09 289,945.98 Letter from Stephen Speed, dated 3 June 2009: The Minister of State, for the Department of Business, Enterprise BERR purchase remanufactured ink cartridges, unless and Regulatory Reform (BERR) has asked me to reply to you stock availability prevents this. directly in respect of your question (2008/3015) asking pursuant to the Answer of 12 February 2009, Official Report, column 2298W, on official cars, how many of the cars owned by (a) his Departmental Telephone Services Department and (b) its agencies are over six years old. The Insolvency Service does not own any official cars. Mr. Amess: To ask the Minister of State, Department Departmental Security for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform what the average waiting time callers to his Department’s Danny Alexander: To ask the Minister of State, telephone help lines was in the latest period for which Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory information is available; and if he will make a Reform how many breaches of security there have been statement. [276868] at (a) Companies House and (b) the Insolvency Service in the last five years; and what procedures are invoked Mr. McFadden: In the last three months the Inquiry in each organisation when a breach of security relating Unit received 28,316 calls. 97 per cent. of these calls to personal data is identified. [276942] were answered within 15 seconds. 493W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 494W

Directors: Disqualification with full and particularised affidavit evidence which is supported by appropriate exhibits, and serve such evidence John Penrose: To ask the Minister of State, Department on my noble Friend the Secretary of State in sufficient for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform what time so as to give him a proper opportunity to consider guidance his Department provides to the Insolvency it fully before the hearing of the application. Service on procedures to be followed when people who The stance taken by my noble Friend the Secretary of are subject to a disqualification order or undertaking State on each application, including whether to file apply for permission to act as a director or take part in evidence and/or oppose the application, can only be the management of a specific company. [277313] decided having regard to the facts and circumstances of each individual case. Mr. McFadden: No guidance is provided by BERR to Hotels: Construction the Insolvency Service on the procedures that need to be followed. Such procedures are largely determined by the courts, the legislation and the Civil Procedures Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Minister of State, Department Rules. The Insolvency Service has developed its approach for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform if he to such applications by referral to prior case judgments will introduce measures to provide financial support for and to legal advice. the capital costs of building new hotels. [264106] To assist applicants, the Insolvency Service provides Ian Pearson: The Real Help for Business measures a guidance sheet (approved by Treasury Solicitors) to announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer on potential applicants which includes details of the 14 January 2009 are available to all businesses across the information which my noble Friend the Secretary of UK, with limited exemptions within some measures State considers should normally be included in an which apply to specific sectors, largely because there is applicant’s evidence. alternative support already in place or the business is wholly speculative in nature. John Penrose: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform how Details of all Real Help measures can be accessed at many people who are subject to a disqualification order www.businesslink.gov.uk/realhelp. or undertaking have (a) applied for and (b) been Information on finance schemes and an initial assessment successful in an application to act as a director or take of eligibility is available at part in the management of a specific company in each www.businesslink.gov.uk/realhelp/finance. month since January 1997. [277314] Insolvency Mr. McFadden: From 1 April 2006 the known figures for applications are: Mrs. May: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform if he Period Applications Granted Dismissed Withdrawn will place in the Library a copy of the letter on 1 April 2006 to 24 18 2 4 redundancies sent by his Department to insolvency 31 March 2007 practitioners on 4 March 2009. [273218] 1 April 2007 to 30 18 1 11 31 March 2008 Mr. McFadden: I will place a copy of the letter in the 1 April 2008 to 36 24 6 4 31 March 2009 Libraries of the House today. 1 April 2009 to date 3 3 Insolvency: Sefton Notes: 1. In the above period two are ongoing. 2. Statistics prior to 1 April 2006 have not been maintained. Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory John Penrose: To ask the Minister of State, Department Reform how many businesses in (a) Crosby and (b) for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform what Sefton have entered into administration in the last procedures his Department has in place to monitor 12 months. [277735] applications from people who are subject to a disqualification order or undertaking for permission to Mr. McFadden: There were 5,273 administrations act as a director or take part in the management of a (Enterprise Act 2002) in England and Wales between company. [277315] April 2008 and March 2009. Statistics covering business administrations are not currently available on a regional Mr. McFadden: All such applications must be served basis within England and Wales. on my noble Friend the Secretary of State, as he has a duty to appear on such applications and to call the Low Pay Commission: Marketing attention of the court to any matters which seem to be relevant, and may give evidence or call witnesses. Most Mr. Djanogly: To ask the Minister of State, Department such applications are dealt with by the Defendant Liaison for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform how Team of the Insolvency Service which provides a guidance much the Low Pay Commission has spent on advertising sheet (approved by Treasury Solicitors) to potential and marketing in each of the last five years. [277475] applicants which includes details of the information which my noble Friend the Secretary of State considers Mr. McFadden [holding answer 1 June 2009]: The should normally be included in an applicant’s evidence. Low Pay Commission has spent nothing on advertising Applicants should support their application to the court and marketing in the last five years. 495W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 496W

Low Pay Commission: Pay Mr. McFadden: I apologise to my right hon. Friend for the delay in responding. I will endeavour to respond Mr. Djanogly: To ask the Minister of State, Department shortly. for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform how many staff of the Low Pay Commission are paid an Mr. Burns: To ask the Minister of State, Department annual salary of (a) less than £15,000, (b) between for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform when £15,000 and £20,000, (c) between £20,000 and £25,000, a reply will be sent to the hon. Member for West (d) between £25,000 and £30,000, (e) between £30,000 Chelmsford’s letter of 9 March 2009 concerning his and £40,000, (f) between £40,000 and £50,000 and (g) constituent, Mr Allan Jasson, of Chelmsford. [277671] over £50,000. [277476] Mr. McFadden [holding answer 1 June 2009]: I apologise Mr. McFadden [holding answer 1 June 2009]: The to the hon. Member for the delay in responding. The information requested is as follows: hon. Member will receive a response shortly. (a) None (b) None Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Minister of State, Department (c) One for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform when (d) Two his Department plans to respond to the letter of 19 April (e) Two 2009 from the hon. Member for North East Milton (f) One Keynes on his constituent, Mr. Robert Bluffield. (g) Three. [277857]

Mr. Djanogly: To ask the Minister of State, Department Mr. McFadden: I apologise to the hon. Member for for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform what the delay in responding. The hon. Member will receive a the salary of each member of the Low Pay Commission response shortly. is; and what (a) pension and (b) expenses arrangements there are for Commission members. [277481] New Businesses

Mr. McFadden [holding answer 1 June 2009]: Low Mr. Crausby: To ask the Minister of State, Department Pay Commissioners do not receive a salary or pension. for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform what They are entitled to claim daily attendance fee of £242.12 assistance is available from his Department for a person a day (Commissioner) and £530.96 a day (Chairman), who wishes to start a business as a sole trader. [263963] although not all do. In addition, Commissioners can claim reasonable actual travelling, subsistence and incidental Ian Pearson: Advice for those wishing to start up as costs necessarily incurred in the course of the Commission’s sole traders, or in other corporate forms, is available business. from the Business Link website Members: Correspondence www.businesslink.gov.uk which provides a wide range of advice and support Mr. Paul Goodman: To ask the Minister of State, tools for new business start ups. Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform when he plans to reply to the letter of 13 November Non-Profit Making Associations 2008 from the hon. Member for Wycombe concerning his constituents, Houshab and Nitesh Patel of Biofuel Margaret Moran: To ask the Minister of State, Refineries, regarding unfair overseas competition in the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory biodiesel trade. [275507] Reform what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of support provided to social enterprise by regional Mr. McFadden: I apologise to the hon. Member for development agencies. [271425] the delay in responding. The hon. Member will receive a response shortly. Mr. McFadden: The RDAs produce corporate Mr. Harper: To ask the Minister of State, Department plans setting out corporate objectives and expenditure for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform when plans across all major activities including social enterprise. he will reply to the letters of 23 February and 17 April Progress against these plans are subsequently reviewed 2009 from the hon. Member for Forest of Dean, on and reported in the RDA’s annual report and accounts. credit for small leisure business, reference SP2151. RDAs are also required to undertake impact evaluations of their major projects. That work was recently [275957] collected together in a report“Impact of RDA Spending” Mr. McFadden [holding answer 15 May 2009]: The carried out on the Department’s behalf by Minister for Competitiveness and Small Business responded PriceWaterhouseCoopers which provided an overall to the hon. Member on 15 May. I apologise for the assessment of RDAs effectiveness. The report concluded delay which was caused by the current high volumes of that RDA expenditure produced economic benefits in correspondence. all regions. The Office of the Third Sector’s Social Enterprise Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Minister of State, Action Plan announced £5.9 million for the regional Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory development agencies to March 2011 to improve social Reform when he plans to reply to the letter of 6 April enterprise support via Business Link. A formal evaluation 2009 from the right hon. Member for Manchester, of the programme by the Office of the Third Sector has Gorton with regard to Mr. D. Healey. [276508] begun, with BERR involvement, and will provide a 497W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 498W mechanism to share results across the country, with Royal Mail central Government and with the sector. A draft report on the early stages of the programme is currently being Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Minister of State, considered by OTS, BERR, the RDAs and a group of Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory social enterprise experts. Reform whether Deutsche Poste has informed him of the reasons for which it decided not to seek a stake in Post Offices: Bank Services the Royal Mail. [274701]

Mr. Oaten: To ask the Minister of State, Department Mr. McFadden: Deutsche Post’s decision in relation for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform what to a partnership with Royal Mail Group Limited is a post office services are operated with the Bank of matter for them. Ireland. [269075] Small Businesses: Procurement

Mr. McFadden [holding answer 20 April 2009]: This Mr. Burstow: To ask the Minister of State, Department is an operational matter for Post Office Ltd (POL). for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform for Alan Cook, managing director of POL, wrote directly what reasons each of the recommendations in the Glover to the hon. Member on 27 April 2009. Review on small and medium-sized enterprises and Copies of the letter will be placed in the Libraries of public procurement cannot be implemented during 2009; the House. and if he will make a statement. [264376]

Regional Development Agencies Ian Pearson: Working with the Office of Government Commerce, this Department expects to implement 10 of the 12 recommendations contained in Anne Glover’s Julia Goldsworthy: To ask the Minister of State, report “Accelerating the SME economic engine” before Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory the end of 2009. The two remaining recommendations Reform what funding streams are provided by each concern the provision of a free procurement portal regional development agency. [277362] recommended by Anne Glover for delivery by 2010. Consideration is currently being given to delivery options Mr. McFadden [holding answer 1 June 2009]: Since which may involve a procurement exercise involving April 2002, the RDAs have been financed through a advertising in the “Official Journal of the European Single Programme budget (the “Single Pot”). Money Union”. from the seven contributing Departments (BERR, CLG, DIUS, DECC, DEFRA, DCMS and UKTI) is pooled Small Firms Loan Guarantee Scheme into one single budget. The funding, once allocated, is available to the RDAs Mr. Dunne: To ask the Minister of State, Department in order to achieve the regional priorities identified in for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform how their regional economic strategies (RES) and the challenging many businesses have made successful applications for targets set by them in their corporate plans. The corporate a Small Firms Loans Guarantee; and how much has plans are approved by Ministers. Each region’s plan will been guaranteed under the scheme in each year from differ according to the needs, opportunities, and priorities 2002-03 to 2007-08. [267578] for economic growth in each region. Ian Pearson [holding answer 27 March 2009]: For figures on the value and volume of loans made under Regional Planning and Development SFLG in each of the last five years, I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 26 November 2008, Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Minister of State, Department Official Report, column 1947W, to the hon. Member for for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform how Rutland and Melton (Alan Duncan). Figures on the much funding each regional development agency plans distribution of SFLG lending across all regions of to give to each regional design panel in 2009-10. England for financial years 2000-01 to 2006-07 are set [270126] out in the Small Firms Loan Guarantee Annual Report to Parliament 2006-07. Copies of the Annual Reports Mr. McFadden: The following table shows RDA are placed in the Libraries of the House. proposed funding for Regional Design Panels in 2009-10.

Proposed funding for regional RDA design panel in 2009-10 (£000) INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT

AWM 0 Afghanistan: Overseas Aid EEDA 100 EMDA 113 Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for LDA 15 International Development what recent representations NWDA 142 he has received on the delivery of humanitarian aid to ONE 0 Afghanistan; and if he will make a statement. [277330] SEEDA 72 SWERDA 0 Mr. Douglas Alexander: The Department for International Development (DFID) is in regular YF 0 consultation with development agencies and other donors 499W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 500W on the delivery of humanitarian aid to Afghanistan. Mr. Thomas: The forthcoming White Paper on These include the Government of Afghanistan, the International Development is on track to be laid before Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs Parliament before both Houses rise for the summer (OCHA), the UN World Food Programme (UN-WFP) recess in July. The consultation period finished on and the United Nations Assistance Mission for Afghanistan 27 May. Through events, online discussions and written (UNAMA). submissions, the consultation received contributions DFID monitors closely the effectiveness of the delivery from approximately 3,000 organisations and individuals. of humanitarian aid through assessments made by agencies who deliver aid on the ground such as the International Employment Tribunals Service Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and UN-WFP. Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Cayman Islands: Hurricanes and Tornadoes International Development how many actions under employment law have been brought against his Department in each of the last three years; how many such actions Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for were brought under each category of action; and how International Development what estimate he has made many such actions were contested by his Department at of the cost of reconstruction required in the Cayman an employment tribunal. [277419] Islands following Hurricane Paloma. [276809] Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Department for International Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International Development was subject to less than five actions under Development (DFID) continues to monitor the situation employment law in each of the last three years; no through the Governor’s Office and the Cayman Islands actions were contested at an employment tribunal. Hazard Management agency. Providing specific information on such a small number In April the United Nations Economic Commission of cases could potentially breach the confidentiality of for Latin America and the Caribbean submitted their individuals concerned. detailed study of economic damage and losses to the Cayman Islands Government. This indicates that the Sri Lanka: Internally Displaced Persons cost of reconstruction, based on replacement costs for direct damage caused by Hurricane Paloma, to be US$124.5 million, or 7.4 per cent. of gross domestic product. Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for International DFID provided support for this study. Development what estimate he has made of the number of Sri Lankans in camps for the internally displaced; On 15 May, the Governor visited Cayman Brae, what estimate he has made of the number of such finding that all critical facilities are functioning, including camps hosting such people; and what reports he has Government buildings, schools and hospitals. Housing received on the access of UN officials to such camps. repair is well under way and is a priority. [277230]

Departmental Pay Mr. Michael Foster: The number of internally displaced persons (IDPs) in the camps is growing rapidly as John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for thousands of civilians leave the conflict zone. The United International Development how many staff employed Nations (UN) has stated that approximately 280,000 in London on work contracted out by his Department people have now been security screened and registered. earn less than £7.45 per hour. [275175] IDPs are currently accommodated in 41 sites situated in Vavuniya, Jaffna and Trincomalee. The UN has generally had better access to the camps than NGOs, particularly Mr. Ivan Lewis: 26 individuals employed in London in Jaffna. on work contracted out by the Department for International Development earn less than £7.45 per hour. We are currently reviewing these contracts. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how much his Department paid in end-of-year performance bonuses Public Libraries to (a) all staff and (b) senior Civil Service staff in 2008-09; and how many such payments were made. Stephen Hesford: To ask the Secretary of State for [275251] Culture, Media and Sport what steps he is taking to ensure that there is a comprehensive and efficient Mr. Ivan Lewis: I refer the hon. Member to the library service in (a) Wirral and (b) England. [277692] answer given to the hon. Member for Fareham (Mr. Hoban) on 26 March 2009, Official Report, column 656W. Barbara Follett: Local authorities have a duty under the Public Libraries and Museums Act 1964 to provide a “comprehensive and efficient” library service. On Departmental White Papers 3 April 2009, the Secretary of State announced his intention to use his powers under the Act to hold an Mr. Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for inquiry to test whether the Wirral MBC’s plans for its International Development what recent progress his library service, arising from its strategic asset review, are Department has made towards the publication of its consistent with their statutory duties. If the council is White Paper; and if he will make a statement. [275068] found to have fallen short of these duties, the inquiry 501W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 502W will recommend the actions necessary to rectify that £ million breach. The inquiry has now been launched and will report in due course. 2006-07 18.1 In considering the findings of both the Wirral inquiry 2007-08 87.6 and the DCMS Library Service Modernisation (which will determine the Government’s vision for a modern, The next ODA annual report is due to be published world-class public library service and set out some of in July 2009 and will include the Delivery Partner the necessary steps to support all local authorities in payment for the financial year 2008-09. providing continuously improving, excellent, library services) The overall amount expected to be paid to CLM is the Secretary of State will consider what further guidance commercially confidential and will vary depending on a is needed by local authorities on the interpretation of number of factors including performance and scope of “comprehensive and efficient”. work undertaken.

Tourism Olympic Delivery Authority: Manpower

Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Hugh Robertson: To ask the Minister for the Olympics Culture, Media and Sport pursuant to the answer to how many people have been employed by the Olympic the hon. Member for North Wiltshire of 1 April 2009, Delivery Authority in each year since 2005; and how Official Report, columns 1217-8W, on tourism, what many have been engaged by the Authority on consultancy estimates have been made for 2008-09; and how much contracts in each such year. [277272] funding each Department provided under each heading Tessa Jowell [holding answer 1 June 2009]: The Olympic in each year. [277479] Delivery Authority (ODA) was established as an NDPB Barbara Follett [holding answer 1 May 2009]: The by the London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games following table gives details of Government spending Act, which received Royal Assent in March 2006. The on tourism for 2008-09: following figures cover the position at the end of each financial year. The increase in the number of employees £ million is related to the increase in the pace of the construction programme: VisitBritain funded by DCMS 149.9 Employees (permanent and fixed term appointments) Additional emergency funding 0 Employees Regional development agencies (RDA), through the RDA 3n/a Single Pot2 administered by DBERR 31 March 2007 112 Additional DCMS funding for London through Greater 1.9 31 March 2008 182 London Authority (GLA) 31 March 2009 225 1 Resource and Capital grant in aid combined, plus additional £2 million relocation costs. Non-permanent members of staff (consultants/interims) 2 DCMS contribution £3.5 million. Employees 3 RDA figures not yet available—still to be audited. The funding received by the British Tourist Authority 31 March 2007 23 and its successor VisitBritain came from DCMS, and 31 March 2008 56 the RDA funding from the RDA Single Pot administered 31 March 2009 129 by BERR, including a £3.5 million contribution from DCMS (which was £3.6 million in the years up to Olympic Games 2012: Finance 2007-08). The funding for the GLA also came from DCMS. The £19 million emergency funding for the Mr. Don Foster: To ask the Minister for the Olympics “Million Visitor Campaign” in 2001-02 was provided how many organisations at (a) national, (b) regional by HMT. and (c) local level are receiving Olympic legacy funding; and how much has been disbursed at each level in the latest period for which figures are available. [277477] OLYMPICS Tessa Jowell: The Legacy Trust UK (LTUK) was CLM established to support a wide range of innovative cultural and sporting projects, which celebrate the London 2012 Mr. Don Foster: To ask the Minister for the Olympics Olympic and Paralympic Games and leave a lasting how much CLM have been paid since its appointment legacy in communities throughout the United Kingdom. as an Olympic contractor; and how much it is expected The trust was established using a £40 million endowment to be paid over the duration of the contract. [277457] from the Big Lottery Fund, the Arts Council England and the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. Tessa Jowell: The Olympic Delivery Authority (ODA) Since its inception LTUK has awarded a total of has engaged the Delivery Partner, CLM, to provide £30 million in grants. £6 million has been committed for world class programme and project management expertise the staging of the UK School Games, which are run by across the ODA’s programme. the Youth Sports Trust, between 2008 and 2011. Details of payments to CLM are published annually Some £24 million has been committed to 12 nations’ in the ODA annual report and accounts. For the last and regions’ organisations to run various cultural projects two years the figures were: as follows: 503W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 504W

Nation/region £ million Contingency (£ million) Funders Programme North West 3.02 North East 1.53 Yorkshire and Humber 2.24 February Stratford City/Olympic — 111.0 West Midlands 2.2 2009 Village infrastructure East Midlands 1.61 East of England 1.51 May 2009 Olympic Village 150.0 111.0 South West 1.61 Total released 446.2 237.7 South East 1.923 Balance remaining 557.8 730.3 London 2.89 Wales 1.67 The quarterly economic update published in May Scotland 2.57 2009 reported that an additional £324 million had been Northern Ireland 1.31 invested in the Olympic Village. This was made up of Total 24.083 £261 million contingency shown above together with £63 million of savings achieved from across the ODA For a nation or region to receive a grant from LTUK, programme. It is expected that the whole £324 million strict funding criteria have been applied, including a will be recovered from future apartment sales. requirement to set up an advisory group, made up of a range of sporting and cultural organisations, which is responsible for the managing and distribution of the money within that region. HEALTH The LTUK are currently finalising their plans for the remaining funds to support three more national initiatives, with announcements expected shortly. Abortion

Hugh Robertson: To ask the Minister for the Olympics Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what grants have been made from the £2.7 billion (1) if he will place in the Library a copy of each Olympic contingency fund; and of those which have document in his Department’s file FPS 15/17 Unborn been allocated to the (a) programme and (b) funded Children (Protection) Bill—(Mr. Enoch Powell); and if stream. [277516] he will make a statement; [266969] (2) if he will place in the Library a copy of each Tessa Jowell [holding answer 1 June 2009]: Of the document in his Department’s file (a) FPS 15/17 total £2.7 billion contingency, £238 million is for wider Parliamentary Proceedings—Mr. Enoch Powell, (b) FPS policing and security and is controlled by the Home 15/17 Unborn Children (Protection) Bill: Mr. Burt and Office. £500 million was allocated to the ODA as part of (c) FPS 15/17 Unborn Children (Protection) Bill—Duke its baseline budget, as announced in December 2007. of Norfolk; and if he will make a statement. [270465] The remaining £1.9 billion is split between funders Dawn Primarolo: Copies of the files have been placed and programme contingency. Contingency releases to in the Library. Where documents have been withheld, the ODA are reported in the London 2012 Olympic and the reason is stated within the copy of each volume. Paralympic Games Annual Reports and Quarterly Economic Reports, the first of which was published on 13 May 2009, and are summarised as follows: Eyesight: Testing

Contingency (£ million) Susan Kramer: To ask the Secretary of State for Funders Programme Health how many practising optometrists have been trained to identify (a) low vision conditions and (b) September Various—balance of — 21.5 early stage vision deterioration. [277898] 2008 funding gap after savings Ann Keen: As part of their training and professional qualifying examinations, all optometrists are expected November Olympic Stadium — 8.2 2008 (primary strengthening) to be able to identify the signs of conditions, which could give rise to vision loss, and might be amenable to Handball arena — 2.3 (acoustics & HD remediation, and the early stages of vision deterioration. lighting) Healthcare Commission: Complaints December Handball area (capacity) 2.4 — 2008 Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State Olympic stadium (blast 0.7 — for Health how many complaints the Healthcare hardening) Commission has (a) received and (b) resolved in each year since its inception; what the average cost of processing January Olympic Village and 394.0 67.0 such complaints has been to date; how many staff were 2009 IBC/MPC employed by the Commission to handle complaints in VAT reduction & (101.0) — each year; and what expenditure the Commission incurred inflation savings on complaints handling in each such year. [277042] 505W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 506W

Ann Keen: The Care Quality Commission, took over Ann Keen: Data from the 2006 Health Survey for from the Healthcare Commission on 1 April 2009. At England suggest the prevalence of coronary heart disease the same time, the previous three-stage national health (CHD) in England was 6.5 per cent. in men and 4.0 per service complaints procedure (local resolution, Healthcare cent. in women. Prevalence rates increase with age, with Commission, health service ombudsman) was replaced more than one in three men and around one in four by a two stage process (local resolution. health service women aged 75 and over living with CHD. ombudsman). The Healthcare Commission’s complaints Overall we estimate that there are just over 1.1 million handling functions (including information and staffing) men living in the United Kingdom who have had angina have therefore not been transferred to CQC. and around 970,000 who have had a heart attack and The number of complaints received and reviewed around 850,000 women who have had angina and around up to 31 July 2008 is available from the Healthcare 439,000 who have had a heart attack. Combined these Commission’s three reports “Spotlight on Complaints—A estimates suggest that 2.1 million men and 1.3 million report on second-stage complaints about the NHS in women, around 3.4 million adults, in the UK reporting England” published in 2007, 2008 and 2009. angina and/or a heart attack. This is likely to be an From July 2004 to July 2006—16,130 requests for review were overestimate as those suffering angina are not an received. In the same period, 10,950 reviews were completed. independent group to those suffering from a heart From August 2006 to July 2007—7,500 requests for review attack. were received. In the same period, 10,366 reviews were completed. Comparable data on prevalence of the cardiovascular From August 2007 to 31 July 2008—7,827 requests for review diseases are difficult to access. At present there is no were received. In the same period, 8,949 reviews were completed. routinely updated source of Europe-wide data. In the 2007 Spotlight on Complaints report the Healthcare Commission published figures on staffing, With regards to plans for tackling heart disease, the related to the period July 2004 to July 2006. During this Department is commissioning an external review of the time the number of staff dealing with cases increased implementation and delivery of the Coronary Heart from 21 to more than 150. Disease National Service Framework. We are also undertaking an analysis of the trends in the burden of According to the Healthcare Commission annual cardiac disease including patient expectations and needs, report and accounts 2007-08, the net operating cost of technology and working practices and how these are the Commission’s complaints handling function in 2007-08 likely to affect future demand and patterns of service was £9.6 million; compared to £9.8 million in 2006-07. provision. However, given that the handling and resolution of complaints also draws on resources from elsewhere in We understand that a report on Access to Cardiac the Commission, it is not possible to calculate accurately Care in the UK commissioned by the Cardio and the full average cost of handling each complaint. Vascular Coalition, the British Heart Foundation and the British Cardiovascular Society was launched on Mental Health Services 2 June 2009, which includes some comparison with other European countries. This will be a helpful contribution Anne Milton: To ask the Secretary of State for to our work on future needs. Health what estimate he made of the number of empty The Department contributed information to the Euro beds in (a) low, (b) medium and (c) high security Consumer Heart Index in 2008, which provides mental health hospitals on each day in the last comparisons between European countries across a number 12 months. [277818] of indicators including access to treatment, prevention, national guidelines and outcomes. In this index, the UK Phil Hope: These data are not collected centrally to ranked 9 out of 29 European countries. No separate this level of detail. score was available for England. Data are collected by the Department on the average The number of people with chronic kidney disease daily bed occupancy level in all low, medium and high (CKD) is not accurately known, because a lack of secure units in a given year. In 2007-08, the average symptoms in the early stages means it often remains daily number of available beds in all secure units in undiagnosed. However, a survey of blood samples in England was 3,159, with an average daily occupancy South East England in 2000-01 indicated the prevalence rate of 2,885 beds or 91.3 per cent. of CKD to be 5,554 per million population. Also the Snapshot data were collected on 30 September 2008, introduction of CKD into the Quality and Outcomes but only in respect of high secure services, when 879 Framework has determined that there are 1.5 million beds were available, with an overall occupancy rate of people with CKD stages 3-5 (5 being established as renal 90.4 per cent. The data include 48 designated learning failure). disability beds. Separate data for low secure and medium Part 1 of the National Service Framework for Renal secure units’ bed occupancy levels have not been collected Services, published in January 2004, sets five standards by the Department. and identifies 30 markers of good practice in the areas NHS: Standards of dialysis and transplantation, aimed at improving fairness of access, patient choice about the type of Sir Nicholas Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State treatment they receive and reducing variation in the for Health what information his Department holds on quality of dialysis and kidney transplant services. These England’s position among Western European states for standards and markers of good practice will help the (a) prevalence and (b) treatment standards for (i) national health service and its partners manage the heart, (ii) kidney disease and (c) stroke; and what increasing demand for renal services. plans he has to improve this ranking over the next Future plans for renal services are to identify people 10 years. [276976] at risk of kidney disease in a timely manner to optimise 507W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 508W care, ensure kidney patients receive high quality care and increasing access for appropriate cardiac interventions. and to offer patients a choice of all forms of replacement Full details are available in the 2007 CHD NSF progress therapy. report, ‘Building for the Future’. A copy has been Stroke is the third leading cause of death and the placed in the Library and is available online at: leading cause of adult disability in England, with over www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/ 110,000 strokes happening every year. PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_083060 The National Stroke Strategy for England (December Progress on the standards in the CHD NSF has been 2007) sets 20 ‘quality markers’ which outline the features monitored annually including the impact on inequalities. of a good service in the assessment and treatment of The Department developed a National Service strokes, and those support services needed for stroke Framework for Diabetes in 2003 and a National Service survivors to return to as full as possible a life in their Framework for Renal Services in 2004. In 2007, the community. National Stroke Strategy was published. The The National Stroke Strategy was launched on implementation plans for all three include a strong 5 December 2007 following extensive consultation. It focus on tackling inequalities. provides a 10-year framework setting out key elements A range of other initiatives to tackle inequalities is of an improved stroke service. At the launch of the being taken forward for example, the Department has strategy, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for commissioned the Improvement Foundation to work in Health (Alan Johnson) announced £105 million of central the 20 areas with the worst health status to improve the funding over three years would be spent to support identification and treatment of people at risk of implementation. cardiovascular disease: Sir Nicholas Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State www.improvementfoundation.org/theme/reducing-health- for Health what assessment has been made of inequalities inequalities in the (a) prevalence and (b) treatment of In addition to this the primary care trusts (PCTs) in (i) cardiac and (ii) vascular diseases between (A) the the most deprived areas are working with the National sexes, (B) geographical areas, (C) social groups, (D) Health Inequalities Support Team. Using the Health economic groups and (E) ethnic groups; and what Inequalities Intervention Tool they are being supported projects (1) are in place and (2) are planned to reduce in priority setting (including prioritising vascular such inequalities over the next decade. [276977] conditions), planning and commissioning of services. Ann Keen: The Government have made tackling health On the prevention front, from April 2009, the NHS inequalities a top priority, and have set a challenging has been asked to start implementing a systematic and target to reduce inequalities in infant mortality and life integrated vascular risk assessment and management expectancy. The most comprehensive programme ever programme—the NHS Health Check programme. This in this country is in place to address them. This draws will provide a mechanism to identify earlier people who on a wide range of data and analysis, some carried out are at risk of heart disease, stroke, diabetes and kidney within the Department and the national health service disease and support them to reduce their risk through and some carried out by academic units. the provision of lifestyle advice and interventions, and Cardiovascular diseases (CVD) account for about a preventative medication, for example statins. Before the third of the gap in life expectancy and a range of implementation of this programme, the Department programmes are reducing deaths and closing the inequalities undertook an Equality Impact Assessment. This assessment gap. used existing evidence that gave details of inequalities in In 1999 a target to reduce the mortality rate from the prevalence of vascular disease of both genders, CVD (coronary heart disease (CHD), stroke and related people of transgender, by age, sexual orientation, diseases) by at least 40 per cent. in people under 75 by geographical regions, socio-economic groups, ethnic groups 2010 was established. This has been the subject of and disability. The programme has significant potential annual monitoring. Data from 2004-06 indicate that to narrow inequalities and many PCTs are using it as a this target was met five years early and the mortality major tool in tackling health inequalities. rate has now fallen by 44 per cent. when compared to The Department is also funding a number of third the 1995-97 baseline. The gap in death rates from CVD sector projects to deliver work focused on particular between the most health deprived areas and the national minority communities. These include nine stroke projects average has narrowed by 36 per cent. over the same including the Stroke Association’s ‘Blood Pressure period, and we are on track to deliver 2010 target of at Awareness—African Caribbean and South Asian least a 40 per cent. reduction in the gap. Communities’, Connect’s ‘Provision of training and With regard to cardiac disease, a major assessment of support for people with Aphasia’ and the Afiya Trust’s the burden of CHD informed the development of the ‘Stroke Awareness for Black and Minority Ethnic Coronary Heart Disease National Service Framework Communities’. For renal services, the Department is (CHD NSF) published in March 2000. The findings of funding a project managed by the Black Organ Donor this assessment are included in the first chapter of the Association that will promote awareness of the need for NSF ‘Modern Standards and Service Models’. A copy organ donation in black and minority ethnic communities. has already been placed in the Library and is available With regard to longer term plans, the Department is online at: commissioning an external review of the implementation www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/ and delivery of the CHD NSF. In addition to this, we PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_4094275 will undertake an analysis of the trends in the burden of A key project to address the inequalities recognised in cardiac disease and look at how patient expectation and the NSF has been a major investment programme of need, technology and working practices are likely to £735 million in facilities and equipment aimed at improving affect future demand and patterns of service provision. 509W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 510W

We will also continue to develop our cross-vascular The AUP provides basic security and policing and is work programme. We will feed our findings to the currently receiving US-led training under the Focused Department’s National Quality Board, which has been District Development Programme. ANCOP plays a niche set up to oversee the priorities for the service in the but vital role in the counter insurgency campaign and future. regularly supports the Afghan national army on operations. It also backfills the AUP during its participation in Vulnerable Adults: Protection training. It is judged to be a more effective force compared with the other elements of the ANP.The Afghan Border John Howell: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Police needs more development although it has made who (a) monitors and (b) investigates complaints some progress in policing Afghanistan’s airports, following made against adult protection multi-agency training. committees set up in accordance with his Department’s No Secrets guidance, LAC (2000)7. [277868] Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Phil Hope: Adult Protection Committees (APCs) are and Commonwealth Affairs how many (a) private the partnership bodies that develop multi-agency procedures security organisations, (b) national armed forces and for staff in partner agencies, including local authorities, other official organisations and (c) intergovernmental the national health service and police, to follow when organisations which are providing training for the responding to allegations of abuse against vulnerable Afghan National Police; how many Afghan National adults. APCs are also known as Safeguarding Adults Police officers in each force who have received such Boards or Partnerships. training from each such organisation; and how many “No Secrets” does not prescribe arrangements for British (i) military and (ii) civilian personnel work in managing complaints about APCs. However, it would each such organisation. [277711] be good practice for each APC to agree a policy on handling complaints, including how complaints should be monitored and investigated. Bill Rammell: The major private security organisations providing training for the Afghan National Police (ANP) APCs are accountable to the individual partner agencies, in Afghanistan are MPRI, Dyncorp and Xe. We do not which should satisfy themselves that complaints are have an estimate of the total number of private security handled in accordance with the agreed policy. companies delivering police training in Afghanistan. Nor do we have figures for British personnel in these organisations. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE We are unable to provide numbers of armed forces, or civilian personnel, engaged in police training and Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations reform from other countries. The principal country delivering police training is the US. 12 Ministry of Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Defence Police are delivering police training and reform and Commonwealth Affairs what plans there are to at the provincial level. There are 24 British armed forces implement the Afghan Public Protection Programme in delivering ANP training at the district level, with additional Helmand province. [277634] force protection. Bill Rammell: The government of Afghanistan, with The US organisation leading on delivering police support from the US, are currently piloting the Afghan training is the Combined Security Transitional Command- Public Protection Programme in Wardak province. This Afghanistan (CSTC-A). CSTC-A has agreements with scheme empowers individual communities to take a Germany, France, Italy, Norway, The Netherlands, Poland greater role in providing their own security. There are and the UK. We are unable to give total figures for no plans as yet to run a pilot program in Helmand. those delivering training to the ANP. There are three Only once the pilot has been vigorously evaluated will British police officers in CSTC-A engaged on police any decisions on expansion be taken. reform. Seven British military personnel are working in CSTC-A on security sector reform, including policing. Afghanistan: Police The main organisation delivering police training and reform at the strategic level is the EU Policing mission Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign (EUPOL). At the beginning of May 2009 the EUPOL and Commonwealth Affairs what his most recent mission was 326-strong and included police experts estimate is of the (a) size and (b) capability of the from the EU, Canada, Croatia, New Zealand and Norway. Afghan National Police. [277635] We have no breakdown of numbers. We are funding 15 British civilians in EUPOL, but have no figures for Bill Rammell: As of 30 April 2009 the size of the additional British staff directly contracted by the EU. Afghan National Police (ANP) was estimated to be There are no UK military in EUPOL. 81,584. The authorised strength (tashkil) of the ANP is 86,800. This includes an increase of 4,800 to bolster We do not have a figure for the number of Afghan security in Kabul in the lead up to the August elections. National Police officers in each force who have received The ANP includes the Afghan Uniformed Police (AUP), training from each organisation. The US estimated that Border Police (ABP) and Civil Order Police (ANCOP). 20,000 ANP had undergone Focused District Development The capability of the ANP varies across the forces and (FDD) training at the end of 2008. CSTC-A is planning continues to suffer from major problems including low to train a further 34,000 ANP in 2009. On 27 April levels of literacy and high levels of corruption. 2009, over 4,700 ANP were in training. 511W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 512W

Aung San Suu Kyi Asia, including Afghanistan, (b) Africa, (c) Europe and (d) the Middle East under the annual tri- Mr. Keith Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for departmental review for 2009-10; and if he will make a Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is statement. [277340] on proposals to add the judges, court officials and police involved in the recent trial of Aung San Suu Kyi Gillian Merron: The original planned total allocation to the list of members of the Burmese regime whose for conflict activity in financial year (FY) 2009-10 was assets within the EU are frozen and who are banned set out in the Comprehensive Spending Review settlement: from travel to the EU; and if he will make a statement. £109 million for Conflict Prevention, £73 million for [277406] Stabilisation and an additional call on the Treasury Reserve for the Peacekeeping Budget (£374 million). Bill Rammell: In the event that the Burmese regime As stated in the previous response, individual country/ continues to ignore international protests about Aung regional allocations were agreed through an annual San Suu Kyi’s arrest and trial, the EU will need to tri-Departmental (Department for International consider what additional actions it should take in order Development, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, Ministry to bring further pressure to bear. Adding further names of Defence) review of planned activity across all three to the current list of those covered by the visa ban and funds. asset freeze would be an option for further measures. Under the tri-departmental review for 2009-10, the My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary raised the UK’s total available conflict resource for FY 2009-10 prospect of such measures with his counterparts on (leaving aside the cost of UK military operations in 18 May 2009. Afghanistan and Iraq) was increased to £627 million (from £556 million). The breakdown is as follows: Burma: Sanctions £456 million has been ring fenced for assessed peacekeeping. The remaining £171 million will fund all Mr. Keith Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State discretionary peacekeeping, conflict prevention and for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs which stabilisation. It has been divided in the following ways: preparatory bodies the General Affairs and External Relations Council has asked to review proposals to Africa—£43 million reinforce existing restrictive measures on Burma; what Middle East—£18 million role the UK has played in the process; and when the Wider Europe—£33 million review is expected to be completed. [277408] South Asia—£61.3 million Strategic Security International Organisations—£6.5 million Bill Rammell: The Asia-Oceania Working Group Central Reserve—£9.2 million (to act primarily as a buffer (COASI) in Brussels has been charged with reviewing against fluctuations in the exchange rate and increases in assessed proposals to reinforce the restrictive measures. The UK peacekeeping or other conflict related costs). has also instigated bilateral discussions on options with our partners. There is no set deadline for the completion Departmental Public Expenditure of the review, but the UK is seeking to ensure that the EU is ready to respond swiftly to developments on the Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for ground. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer to the right hon. Member for Richmond Mr. Keith Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for (Yorks) of 15 May 2009, Official Report, column Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what proposals 1061W, on departmental public expenditure, for what for further discussions with Asian countries on Burma reason the administration allocation for the Baghdad have been made at EU level; what steps the UK is post was reduced from £26,584,327 in 2007-08 to taking in this regard; and if he will make a statement. £2,673,946 in 2008-09; what categories of cost are now [277409] incurred at the post; and how much staff security at the post cost in the latest period for which figures are Bill Rammell: Members of the EU share the UK’s available. [276814] view that our Asian partners have a key role to play in encouraging the process of change in Burma. The EU Gillian Merron: Since 1 April 2008 funds for major raises the issue of Burma in its discussions with China, contracts in Iraq have been managed from London as India and other Asian states at every opportunity. I this is more cost-effective. The funds managed at Post joined Asian and other EU Ministers at the Asia Europe are for local running costs. Meeting on 25-26 May 2009 in Hanoi and at the EU-ASEAN (Association of South East Asian Nations) The total allocations for London and Posts in Iraq Summit on 27-28 May 2009 in Phnom Penh. Burma Directorate for 2007-08 were £39.2 million. In 2008-09 and the trial of Aung San Suu Kyi were among the total allocations reduced to £36.1 million. The decrease issues discussed in detail at that meeting. in allocation was because of the renegotiation of major contracts. Conflict Prevention Costs incurred at Baghdad include those for security, transport, medical, catering and other life support costs. Mr. Moore: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the Answer of Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for 18 May 2009, Official Report, column 1146W, on Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to conflict prevention, what the original planned total the answer to the right hon. Member for Richmond allocation for conflict prevention was for (a) South (Yorks) of 15 May 2009, Official Report, column 1061W, 513W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 514W on departmental public expenditure, for what reason Where the European Community is a member of an the administration allocation for the Kirkuk post was international organisation the European Commission reduced from £1,390,059 in 2007-08 to nil in 2008-09; will attend meetings of the organisation and may speak for what reason the administration allocation for the on matters falling within the European Community’s new post at Erbil remains at £140,569; what services in competence. Kirkuk have been reduced as a result of the change; and what recent discussions he has had with authorities in European Court of Justice the Kurdistan region on the effect of the change on the UK’s policy on northern Iraq and the Kurds. [276816] Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Gillian Merron: UK based staff moved from Kirkuk and Commonwealth Affairs how much the Government to Erbil in February 2007. One locally engaged staff spent on legal costs for cases at the European Court of member remains in Kirkuk, administered from Erbil. Justice for 2008. [277094] All services provided to Kirkuk have ceased. Since 1 April 2008 funds for major contracts in Iraq Gillian Merron: For the financial year 2008-09, in have been managed from London as this is more cost- relation to cases before the European Court of Justice effective. The funds managed at Post are for local running and the Court of First Instance, the Government spent costs. £514,111.00 on counsel’s fees. This figure does not include a limited number of outstanding fees relating to The total allocations for London and Posts in Iraq work undertaken in 2008-09 for which the Government Directorate for financial year (FY) 2007-08 were have not yet been invoiced. £39.2 million. In FY 2008-09 total allocations reduced to £36.1 million. The decrease in allocation was because of the renegotiation of major contracts. European Union The Government attach great value to our relationship with the Kurds both as part of bilateral relationship Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign with Iraq and directly with the Kurdistan Region. Kurdish and Commonwealth Affairs what the estimated leaders including Kurdish President Masoud Barzani marginal cost to the UK Permanent Representation to and Kurdish Prime Minister Nechirvan Barzani have a the EU was of European Parliament plenaries taking major role to play in continued stabilisation and security place in Strasbourg in the last 12 months. [277080] in Iraq and, through dialogue with the federal government in Baghdad and finding political solutions to the remaining Caroline Flint: The estimated marginal cost of Strasbourg nation building legislation. plenary sessions to the UK Permanent Representation Separately, we continue to strengthen our relationship to the EU for the past 12 months was around ¤65,000. with the Kurdish Region by helping it to prosper as a The UK Permanent Representation, on behalf of the stable, democratic and economically viable region through Government, engages regularly with the European closer ties in education, trade, culture, security sector Parliament, including the Strasbourg plenary sessions, reform and supporting its efforts to establish better in order to achieve the best outcome for the UK. relations with its neighbours such as Turkey. Gambia: Politics and Government EC Law Mr. Keith Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when the next and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he has made dialogue meeting between the government of the of the proportion of domestic legislation which was Gambia and the EU will be held; and whether he plans enacted as a consequence of obligations arising from to raise the case of David and Fiona Fulton at that EU legislation in the latest period for which figures are meeting. [275465] available. [277764] Gillian Merron: The next EU-Gambia meeting is Caroline Flint: A House of Commons Library analysis scheduled for 10 June 2009. This meeting will not of the effects of EU legislation on British law between provide an opportunity for our high commissioner to 1998 and 2005 gave a figure of 9.1 per cent. raise the Fultons’ case as he will be acting as the sole representative of the EU presidency on EU-Gambia European Commission matters. Consular staff continue to monitor the Fultons’ case and make regular visits. Our high commissioner Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign will make representations directly to the Gambian and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the Answer of authorities where appropriate. 1 April 2009, Official Report, column 1196W, on the European Union, for which international bodies his Iran: Sanctions Department recognises the European Commission as having an active treaty competence interest. [277115] Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer of Caroline Flint: The European Commission’s Treaties 6 May 2009, Official Report, column 172W, on Iran: Office keeps track of all the treaties to which the European sanctions, what his policy is on the length of time Iran Community is a party. It is publicly available at: will be given to respond in a positive way before further http://ec.europa.eu/world/agreements/default.home.do steps are taken. [277228] 515W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 516W

David Miliband: Following a meeting of officials Dera Ghazi Khan Nuclear Site and (ii) the Institute of from the E3+3 on 8 April 2009, EU High Representative Science and Technology; and what recent discussions Javier Solana contacted Iranian nuclear negotiator Saeed he has had with his Pakistani counterpart on Pakistan’s Jalili to invite Iran to meet with the E3+3. nuclear programme. [277210] Iran has yet to respond to the E3+3’s invitation. While we remain committed to engagement, we are also David Miliband: Recent reports on Pakistan’s nuclear clear that the window of opportunity for Iran to take programme indicate that Pakistan is continuing to expand positive steps is not open-ended. its nuclear weapons capabilities both in terms of warheads and their delivery systems. Dera Ghazi Khan nuclear Members: Correspondence site and the Institute of Science and Technology are both involved in Pakistan’s nuclear programme. I regularly Sir Michael Spicer: To ask the Secretary of State for discuss this and a range of other issues with my Pakistani Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he plans to counterpart, most recently on 26 May 2009. reply to the letter from the hon. Member for West Worcestershire of 2 April 2009, transferred from the Peacekeeping Operations Department for International Development on 9 April, on Hakamada Iwao. [276553] Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer Gillian Merron [holding answer 20 May 2009]: This of 15 May 2009, Official Report, column 1071W, on letter was replied to on 20 May 2009. peacekeeping operations, how many UK civilian Middle East: Armed Conflict secondees there have been to each conflict prevention and peacekeeping operation in each country in 2008-09; and what the role of each was. [277229] Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has David Miliband: The information is as follows: received on levels of smuggling into Gaza; and if he will make a statement. [277208] FY 2008-09 Number

David Miliband: There are two types of smuggling Total police deployed 157 into Gaza. The majority of smuggling is for commercial Total civilians deployed 74 goods, including fuel. We believe that this continues to Total overall deployed 231 be a major part of the Gazan economy, primarily because of the continuing Israeli restrictions at the Number of commercial crossings into the strip. The UK continues secondees to call on the Israeli Government to reduce restrictions deployed to mission at the Gaza crossings on trade goods, reconstruction throughout Roles undertaken by UK materials, and aid, as well as flows of people. The Mission FY08-09 secondees second type of smuggling is arms smuggling. We believe that recent actions have disrupted this to some extent EUPol Afghanistan 12 police Deputy Head of Mission but that it does continue. UK officials will attend a CID Adviser meeting in Ottawa in June 2009 (following earlier meetings Mentor State Office of Criminal in Copenhagen and London) to address further measures Investigation to prevent arms smuggling into Gaza. Mentor at Central Level Training Adviser Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Mentor Criminal Investigation and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has Department MoI received on attempts by Hamas to re-arm in the Gaza Head of Kabul City Police Project Team Strip; and if he will make a statement. [277209] Head of Mentors David Miliband: We are deeply concerned by reports Operations Support Officer of continued sporadic rocket attacks from Gaza aimed Mentor Deputy Minister of at Israel and call on the attacks to cease immediately. Interior 1 civilian Mentor of Attorney General’s The UK continues to urge Hamas to renounce violence Office and condemns attempts to smuggle weapons and ammunition into Gaza. Combined Strategy 3 police Senior Adviser on Afghan Police The UK continues to work with international partners Transition (2 for 1 role) Development to the against the smuggling of arms into Gaza. UK officials Command - Commanding General will attend a meeting in Ottawa in June 2009 (following Afghanistan National Police Development earlier meetings in Copenhagen and London), to address Manager further measures to prevent arms smuggling. Pakistan: Nuclear Weapons EUPM Bosnia 14 police + 1 Chief Adviser to SIPA civilian Human Resource Management Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Adviser and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has Crime Adviser, Regional Office received on (a) recent activity in Pakistan’s nuclear SIPA Adviser programme and (b) construction of facilities at (i) the 517W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 518W

Number of Number of secondees secondees deployed to deployed to mission mission throughout Roles undertaken by UK throughout Roles undertaken by UK Mission FY08-09 secondees Mission FY08-09 secondees

Chief Adviser to Regional Office Commander CPU Anti-Organised Crime Adviser Station Commander Liaison Officer(SCLO) Crime Adviser to SIPA Surveillance Anti-Organised Crime Unit Co-ordinator Director of Crime SIPA Adviser, HQ Regional Ops Border Police Adviser Shift Leader Monitor Adviser to Regional Office FIC Analyst Adviser to Field Office Adviser to Head of KPS Mandatory Training Operational Adviser SIPA Chief of CTU Senior Immigration Adviser Intelligence unit officer Chief of the Anti-Organised Crime Department Border, Gate 31 Head of CIU EUPol COPPS 4 police Projects Officer Ops Planning Palestine (2 for 1 role) Intelligence unit officer Mission Security Officer Gate 31 Monitor Staff & Liaison Officer Staff Officer to Police Commissioner CPCC Brussels 2 police CPCC Police Export Team Leader Organised Crime DGE IX - External Relations (IPU) DPC,KPS Admin 1 civilian Logistics Expert Exec Officer, Operations Head of Intelligence IPU CivPol Iraq 25 police UK Chief Police Adviser - Iraq Team Support Manager Enhancement Force SPA Tactical Gate Cdr Gate 31 MND(SE) Liaison - ISF Branch Counter Terrorist Unit Internal Affairs Deputy Reg Cdr/Investigations Monitor. Leadership Department TUM Mitro Regional Traffic Higher Institute Development Unit War Crimes Investigator CPATT-Dep.Dir.Trg. Standards Deputy head of CIU MOI / CPATT Strategic Policing Adviser Gate 31 Monitor Rol - Investigator Adviser to support and service Training Adviser selection/ Dir org crime War Crimes Investigator MOI / HWG Strategic Policing Adviser Analyst CIU Strategic Planning Adviser Intelligence Analyst Adviser to KPS OPS- Station EU JUSTLEX 4 civilians Chief of Staff Adviser to interethnic crime Brussels investigations Course Coordinator Penitentiary Chief police station Adviser Police Course Coordinator Surveillance investigations officer Mission Security Officer Shift Leader gates 1/31 Station Police officer EULEX Kosovo 83 police Intelligence Unit Officer Adviser to KPS ROSU Intelligence Unit Officer Adviser to the KPS Regional Intelligence Unit Officer Admin and support Chief Adviser to KPS admin Chief Adviser to KPS admin Adviser to the KPS chief of staff Shift Leader Monitor Adviser to KPS OPS- station D/Director Special Ops Coordination officer( Chief SPU Ops Planning Investigation/intelligence/general policing) Oversight Investigations Adviser to Operational planning Witness Protection unit 519W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 520W

Number of Number of secondees secondees deployed to deployed to mission mission throughout Roles undertaken by UK throughout Roles undertaken by UK Mission FY08-09 secondees Mission FY08-09 secondees

Adviser to investigations-Border Secretary to the Head of Mission police Prosecutor Adviser to KPS regional chief of admin and support Adviser to police investigations- ICO KOSOVO 3 civilians Head of the Press and Public mobile patrol-station Information Unit/Director of Adviser to KPS ops dept station Communications Adviser to inter ethnic crime Field Presence Coordinator investigations Head of the ICO Presence in Adviser to Ops dept station Mitrovica Public order officer Station Police officer EUPT KOSOVO 1 civilian Political Adviser Surveillance investigations officer EUSR KOSOVO - 1 civilian EU Coordinator/Political Adviser Adviser to KPS Ops based in Brussels to the European Union Special Investigator of the FIU Representative Adviser to KPS K9 unit UNAMID SUDAN 3 police Training coordinator Intelligence officer, SLU, OIC Policing Adviser Border monitor gate 1 and 31 Training Adviser Station Police officer Community policing Adviser SUDAN AMIS 1 civilian UN Military Observer Adviser to KPS OPS dept Stn OCI analyst EUMM Georgia 10 police Monitor Investigator to FIU Monitor WSU safe place Dep team leader Monitor Adviser to regional crime squad Monitor Station Police officer Monitor Adviser to immigration unit Monitor Pristina airport Monitor Station Police officer Monitor Station Police officer Monitor OIC desk officer/ office manager Monitor Adviser to KPS Ops station 12 civilians Chief of Security Station Police officer Chief Press and Media WSU safe place security officer Deputy Head Operations/ 18 civilians Deputy Chief Programme Military Adviser Manager Monitor Senior Security Information Analyst Monitor Deputy Head of EULEX Monitor Mission Monitor Anti-Corruption Expert Monitor Chief Reporting Officer Monitor Policy Officer Monitor Legal Adviser Monitor Public Outreach Officer Monitor Legal Officer - District Court

Police Liaison Officer (based in EUBAM RAFAH 1 police Deputy Chief of operations Brussels) 1 civilian Reporting and Analysis Officer Court Recorder Court Recorder EUSEC DRCongo 1 civilian Head of Admin and Logistic Cell Criminal Judge, District Court Level Programme Manager EUBAM 2 civilian Deputy Head of Field Office MOLDOVA Customs Law Enforcement Adviser Border Guard Officer Court Recorder 521W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 522W

Lanka. We endorse the EU’s call for an independent Number of secondees inquiry into alleged violations of international humanitarian deployed to and human rights law, and for those accountable to be mission brought to justice. We believe this could play an important throughout Roles undertaken by UK Mission FY08-09 secondees role in the post-conflict reconciliation process. I refer the right hon. Member to my latest written ministerial EU South Caucasus 1 civilian Political Adviser statement on Sri Lanka on 19 May 2009, Official Report, based in Brussels column 73WS.

OSCE Bosnia 2 civilians Senior Adviser, Education St. Helena: Wind Power Director of Democratisation Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for OSCE Austria 1 civilian Senior Border Adviser Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer of 21 April 2009, Official Report, column OSCE Serbia 3 civilians Municipal Coordinator, Pol 560W, on British Overseas Territories: electricity Affairs generation, what percentage of St. Helena’s electricity Community Policing Adviser requirements is generated through the wind power Head of Strategic Development programme. [276789] Gillian Merron: The wind power programme on St. OSCE Macedonia 5 civilians Head of Media Development Helena is the responsibility of St. Helena Government. Field Station Coordinator, Tetevo I understand that in April 2009, 3-4 per cent. of the Head of Public Admin Reform total energy consumption was being generated through Police Training that programme. There are plans in place to increase Head of Police Development this percentage by the end of the year. Sudan: Human Rights OSCE Kosovo 2 civilians Public Safety Trainer (Police) Head of OSCE Field Office Mr. Duncan Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent OSCE Albania 4 civilians Deputy Head of Presence assessment he has made of the human rights situation Economic and Environmental in Sudan. [277432] Affairs Officer Political Officer Gillian Merron: The human rights situation in Sudan Field Station Officer is of grave and ongoing concern. Arbitrary arrests and detention, sexual violence against women, large scale recruitment and use of children in armed forces and OSCE Georgia 3 civilians Spokesperson Press & Public Affairs general impunity for such violations, together with Project Co-ordinator restrictions that unduly limit the freedom of expression, freedom of association and freedom of movement, are Senior Military Adviser our most serious concerns. The civilian population is suffering gravely from the OSCE Nagorno 1 civilian Field Assistant Karabakh protracted conflict in Darfur. The recent expulsion of international humanitarian aid workers exacerbates the already precarious situation for civilians. OSCE Warsaw 2 civilians Legal Adviser Rule of Law Officer The serious human rights situation on the ground warrants maintained international human rights focus on Sudan, in particular as the country is preparing for OSCE Moldova 1 civilian Political-Military Officer national elections to be held next year, as part of the crucial implementation of the Comprehensive Peace OSCE Tajikistan 1 civilian Field Office, Kulyab Agreement. Tibet OSCE Kyrgyzstan 1 civilian Head of Mission

Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for Sri Lanka: Armed Conflict Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when officials from the British Embassy in Beijing next plan to visit Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Tibet. [277858] and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has received on the number of people (a) killed and (b) Bill Rammell: Officials from our embassy in Beijing wounded during the recent conflict in Sri Lanka; and if were able to visit the Tibet Autonomous Region in May he will make a statement. [277205] 2009. They met representatives of the regional government, Lhasa Municipal government, the Regional People’s David Miliband: Given the lack of independent Congress, and representatives of non-governmental monitoring from the conflict area, we have been unable organisations working there. They were also able to to verify the conflicting reports of the numbers of observe daily life and visit a monastery to assess the people killed and injured in the recent fighting in Sri situation there. I intend to visit Tibet in shortly. 523W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 524W

Treaty of Rome Northern Ireland Executive: Funding

Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign 7. Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for and Commonwealth Affairs what the cost to the EU Northern Ireland what recent discussions he has had budget was of events marking the 50th anniversary of with the Prime Minister on mechanisms for central the Treaty of Rome; what such events took place in the Government funding for the Northern Ireland UK; and at what cost. [277184] Executive. [277589]

Caroline Flint: This information is not held by the Mr. Woodward: I have regular discussions with my Government. Requests for this information should be right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on a wide range of made to the UK Representations of the European issues. This Government believe that the current Commission and the European Parliament. arrangements deliver stable and transparent settlements which permit the Northern Ireland Executive to direct On events in the UK, I refer the hon. Member to the spending towards local priorities and needs. answer given by my noble Friend the then Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Police Detection Rates Affairs, Lord Triesman on 19 April 2007, Official Report, House of Lords, column WA91,which provided information on the Government’s activities to commemorate the 8. Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for 50th Anniversary of the Treaty of Rome. Northern Ireland what recent discussions he has had with the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland on police detection rates. [277590]

Paul Goggins: The Chief Constable reports to the NORTHERN IRELAND Northern Ireland Policing Board directly on clearance rates. The Police Service of Northern Ireland is committed Criminal Justice and Policing to improving clearance rates through intelligence-led community policing. The clearance rate in Northern 4. Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Ireland for 2008-09 was 23 per cent., an increase of Northern Ireland what progress has been made in the 2.5 percentage points on the previous year. devolution of responsibility for criminal justice and policing to the Northern Ireland Assembly. [277586] Dissident Republicans

Mr. Woodward: Good progress continues to be made 9. Mr. Robathan: To ask the Secretary of State for to implement the route map set out by the First and Northern Ireland what recent assessment he has made Deputy First Ministers in November 2008. With the of levels of activity of dissident republicans in Northern Ireland Act 2009 on the statute book, we have Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement. put the necessary framework in place to enable the [277591] Assembly to complete that process. 13. Mr. Blunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what recent assessment he has made Fuel Smuggling of levels of activity of dissident republicans in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement. [277595] 5. Mr. Hollobone: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what assessment he has made of the 14. Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for effect on the local economy of fuel smuggling in Northern Ireland what recent assessment he has made Northern Ireland. [277587] of levels of activity of dissident republicans in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement. Paul Goggins: Fuel fraud, like all other forms of [277596] criminal activity, has an adverse impact on the economy. Dealing with this issue remains a priority for me and all Mr. Woodward: The 21st IMC Report indicated that members of the Organised Crime Task Force. dissident republicans remain active and dangerous. Their In the past year over 800,000 litres of illegal fuel have objective is to destroy the peace process and drag Northern been seized. Ireland back to the past. It is the clear will of the people of Northern Ireland that they will not be allowed to succeed. Saville Inquiry Press Freedom 6. Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he expects Lord Saville to 10. Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for report the conclusions of his inquiry; and if he will Northern Ireland what recent assessment he has made make a statement. [277588] of levels of press freedom in Northern Ireland. [277592]

Mr. Woodward: Lord Saville wrote to me in January Mr. Holloway: To ask the Secretary of State for stating that it is still his intention to submit his report to Northern Ireland what recent assessment he has made me in the autumn of this year. I have had no indication of levels of press freedom in Northern Ireland; and if from Lord Saville that there will be any further delays. he will make a statement. [277597] 525W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 526W

Paul Goggins: A free and independent press is one of £ the cornerstones of democracy in Northern Ireland as Face to it is throughout the United Kingdom. Written face Telephone Terrorism translation interpreting interpreting Total

11. Sir Nicholas Winterton: To ask the Secretary of 2009 State for Northern Ireland what steps are being taken January 250.00 — 373.64 623.64 to protect members of the Police Service of Northern February — 2,173.31 695.18 2,868.49 [277593] Ireland from terrorist attacks. March 196.35 80.38 500.25 776.98 April 3,636.68 — 683.10 4,319.78 Paul Goggins: The Chief Constable and I take extremely May — 9,141.06 622.73 9,763.79 seriously the threat to police officers. A range of measures are in place to enhance the personal security of officers and they are kept under review. Total 43,230.27 27,672.85 2,885.48 73,788.60 Political Institutions State Visits: Republic of Ireland

12. David Taylor: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Donaldson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what assessment he has made of Northern Ireland what estimate he has made of the progress in the development of political institutions in cost to the public purse of each visit to Northern Northern Ireland since the date of the St. Andrews Ireland by the President of the Irish Republic in each agreement. [277594] of the last three years. [276771]

Mr. Woodward: Last month saw the second anniversary Paul Goggins: As with all VIP visits, the cost to the of the restoration of devolution. In that time the political public purse has not been calculated. To supply such institutions in Northern Ireland have continued to develop figures could be done only at disproportionate cost. and make remarkable progress as its politicians demonstrate their commitment to making the institutions work in the best interests of all the people of Northern Ireland. JUSTICE Prisoners: Foreigners Arrest Warrants Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what provision his Department has Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice made for interpretation services for foreign national what implications there are for his Department of prisoners in 2008 and 2009 to date; and with reference proposed changes under Council Framework Decision to the answer of 10 January 2008, Official Report, 2009/299/JHA to trial absences before the issue of a column 765W,on prisoners: foreigners, what expenditure European Arrest Warrant. [277090] his Department has incurred on the provision of such services in each month since January 2008. [277318] Maria Eagle: The UK welcomes this framework decision, since it will ensure that there is consistency and clarity Paul Goggins: In November 2007, the Northern Ireland throughout Europe regarding the circumstances in which Prison Service awarded contracts for face to face interpreting a European arrest warrant should be executed, where and written translation for foreign national prisoners. A the person has been tried in their absence. It will not telephone interpreting service is also available. require us to change our law regarding when a trial may The following table shows the expenditure on language proceed in a person’s absence. In operational terms, services in each month since January 2008: when it has come into force we will need to ensure that our authorities are using the revised European arrest £ warrant form. This will be picked up in the implementation Face to phase of the framework decision when this Department Written face Telephone will work alongside colleagues in the Home Office and translation interpreting interpreting Total others, including the judiciary and devolved administrations 2008 on detailed aspects of implementation. January 2,488.30 — — 2,488.30 I do not believe that the Council framework decision February — — — — on trials in absentia will have significant implications March 3,872.90 — 10.58 3,883.48 for my Department. It will ensure that our authorities April 9,222.41 — — 9,222.41 can be satisfied that a person is only being sent back to May 4,455.50 931.82 — 5,387.32 another MS following a trial in their absence in appropriate June 6,438.25 — — 6,438.25 circumstances. July 247.22 1,052.72 — 1,299.94 Bail Accommodation and Support Service: Billericay August 1,781.08 — — 1,781.08 September 2,977.81 992.74 — 3,970.55 October 661.98 3,207.77 — 3,869.75 Mr. Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice November 6,671.79 4,813.91 — 11,485.70 what plans ClearSprings Management Ltd has to December 330.00 5,279.14 — 5,609.14 operate a Bail Accommodation and Support Service property in Billericay constituency. [274605] 527W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 528W

Mr. Hanson: The East of England Director of Offender (2) whether estates other than the Duchy of Cornwall Management has identified a need for a further three receive bona vacantia properties. [275960] bed spaces for this service in Essex to allow defendants and offenders on Home Detention Curfew requiring Bridget Prentice: In England and Wales, property accommodation in Essex to return to their home area. which is bona vacantia is ownerless property that passes Should ClearSprings acquire a property for this service to the Crown by law. It devolves to the Crown, the in his constituency of Billericay I will write and advise Duchy of Cornwall or the Duchy of Lancaster depending him. on where the last private owner was domiciled when Departmental Art Works they died or in the case of a dissolved company where the registered office and the asset were located. It is administered by the Treasury Solicitor on behalf of the Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Crown and by the solicitors acting on behalf of the how much his Department has spent on artwork since Duchy of Cornwall or Lancaster respectively. November 2008. [276476] In general terms, the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster Mr. Straw: Since November 2008 there has been no are private estates in that they belong to the heir apparent expenditure on artwork incurred by the Ministry of and the monarch respectively in their private capacities. Justice HQ, the Office of the Public Guardian, nor the The term “private estates” is, however, defined in several National Offender Management Service. statutes including the Crown Private Estates Acts 1800, 1862 and 1873 and the Crown Lands Act 1823. The Artwork expenditure is not a separately identifiable meaning of the term in this context is governed by the category for HM Courts Service and the Tribunal’s relevant statute. Service. However, neither agency has commissioned any new artwork since November 2008. I am not aware that my Department has used the term “statutory perpetual trust” to define the status of Departmental Dismissal the Duchies. Nor is the term used in statute to describe them. Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many members of staff in his Department and its agencies were dismissed (a) for under-performance Economic and Monetary Union and (b) in total in each of the last 10 years. [274308] Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mr. Straw: The Ministry of Justice (MOJ) was formed what activities have been undertaken by his Department’s in 2007. To collate such data for the Ministry’s predecessor Euro Minister in that capacity. [277173] Departments and their agencies would incur disproportionate costs. Data from this date onwards are Mr. Wills: Euro Ministers are responsible for Euro provided in the following table. preparations in their Department and attend Euro Dismissals for Number of Ministers’ Steering Group meetings. Meetings are held under- Total MOJ only when necessary to discuss practical preparations to performance dismissals employees ensure a smooth changeover. The Government’s policy towards membership of the single currency has not 2007-08 18 533 78,789 changed. 2008-09 27 481 81,402

Departmental Marketing Legal Aid Ann Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how much has been spent by his Department on Mr. Bellingham: To ask the Secretary of State for advertising in weekly and regional newspapers since its Justice what assessment he has made of the effect on inception. [277151] levels of local government expenditure of his decision to reduce the budget for family legal aid. [274732] Maria Eagle: The Ministry of Justice does not record information centrally at a level of detail that would Bridget Prentice: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the allow for the specific identification of advertising answer I gave him on 20 May 2009, Official Report, expenditure in weekly and local newspapers. Such columns 1445-1446W. We have not reduced the family information is held locally by courts, prisons and probation legal aid budget. The consultation document, ‘Family boards throughout England and Wales and could be Legal Aid Funding from 2010’, published by my collated only at disproportionate cost. The vast majority Department and the Legal Services Commission, set of advertising expenditure incurred by the Ministry, out proposals aimed at maintaining legal aid expenditure however, relates to staff recruitment. at 2007-08 levels. The LSC and MOJ have discussed these proposals with a wide range of stakeholders, Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster including the Local Government Association. The LSC has also received responses from a number of councils, Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for which are being considered along with all the other Justice (1) what definition his Department uses of (a) responses received. We do not believe that these proposals a private estate and (b) a statutory perpetual trust in would have a material impact on local government relation to the status of the Duchies of (i) Cornwall expenditure, and a full impact assessment will be published and (ii) Lancaster; [275541] alongside the final proposals. 529W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 530W

Parole Nationality type 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

EEA—foreign 117 147 163 196 187 David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for nationals Justice (1) how many offenders had their parole revoked Non-EEA— 351 348 413 428 418 in the latest year for which figures are available; and foreign what the length of time between revocation and reception nationals into prison was in each such case; [277278] UK nationals 4,580 4,982 5,062 5,178 5,458 Unknown 28 22 21 26 25 (2) what the average length of time between revocation of parole and reception into prison was in We do not specifically record whether foreign national the latest year for which figures are available. [277279] prisoners died beyond the date that their sentence was due to expire. The numbers and proportions of self-harm Mr. Straw: We are currently collating information in incidents committed by foreign national prisoners in this area and will publish that information shortly. I will each of the last five years are detailed in the following write to the hon. Member as soon as possible. table.

Nationality 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Prison Accommodation type No. % No. % No. % No. % No. %

EEA— 352 2 373 2 397 2 664 3 409 2 Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for foreign Justice how many new prison places were provided in nationals (a) 2008 and (b) 2009 to date. [277256] Non- 587 3 584 3 796 4 780 4 810 4 EEA— foreign Mr. Hanson: 2,501 new prison places were provided nationals in 2008 in England and Wales. To date in 2009 a further Unknown 52 0 47 0 80 0 65 0 58 0 522 new places have been delivered. No. = incidents Notes: Figures include new build places and those provided 1. The NOMS incident reporting system processes high volumes of data which through conversions of existing buildings to are constantly being updated. A new system for recording self-harm was accommodation use. Places provided through other introduced in December 2002 and as a result recording improved throughout 2003. Numbers since 2004 are, therefore, not comparable with those collected measures such as cell reclaims are excluded. previously. 2. Figures are approximate numbers of individuals, based on incidents of self-harm where the prisoner number was recorded. 3. The data are drawn from the prison administrative IT systems. Although care Prisoners: Self-harm is taken when processing and analysing the returns, the detail collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent in any large-scale recording system. Nevertheless, the system provides a sensible indication of the numbers of incidents and Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice individuals who self-harm but the numbers should not be treated as absolute. 4. Self-harm incidents are as reported on the NOMS incident reporting system. (1) how many (a) British and (b) foreign national Due to transition between computer systems the numbers currently exclude a prisoners committed acts of self-harm in prison in each small proportion collected on the new NOMIS system.. year since 1997; [274144] Prisons: Dagenham (2) how many and what proportion of self-harm incidents in prisons in England and Wales were committed by (a) foreign national prisoners and (b) foreign national Jon Cruddas: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice prisoners held beyond the expiration of their sentence what estimate he has made of the cost to his Department of assessing bids for the construction in each of the last five years. [274145] contract for Beam Park West Prison. [277472]

Mr. Straw: The National Offender Management Service, Mr. Straw: It is intended that the new prison at Beam (NOMS), has a broad, integrated and evidence-based Park West will be designed built and operated by the prisoner suicide prevention and self-harm management private or third sector. Therefore the evaluation of strategy that seeks to reduce the distress of all those in bidders’ proposals will include evaluation of proposals prison. This encompasses a wide spectrum of Prison for both the construction of the prison and the operation and Department of Health work around such issues as of the prison. The administrative costs to manage the mental health, substance misuse and resettlement. Any whole procurement process, including the evaluation of prisoner identified as at risk of suicide or self-harm is bids, are included in the overall budget estimate for the cared for using the Assessment, Care in Custody and new prisons but have not been broken out specifically Teamwork (ACCT) procedures. A prisoner-focused care into separate evaluation elements. planning system for those at risk, which, has helped prisons manage self-harm. Most self-harm is not directly Jon Cruddas: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice life threatening, but nevertheless can be extremely distressing what estimate he has made of the average weekly for those who have to deal with it. There are no easy number of vehicles which will require access to and answers to preventing self-harming behaviour but we from the Beam Park West site once the proposed prison remain committed to finding ways to manage it. is operating at capacity. [277473] Information on the total numbers of self-harm incidents is not available for the full time period requested (see Mr. Straw: No assessment of this has yet been made. table note). The following table details the estimated However, as required by the local planning authority, number of individuals who self-harmed from 2004 by an environmental impact assessment will be undertaken type of nationality. and submitted as part of the planning application. 531W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 532W

Prisons: Greater London Repossession Orders: Reading Berkshire Mr. Rob Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Jon Cruddas: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Justice how many court orders have been issued for the what (a) meetings he has held with and (b) repossession of homes in Reading East constituency in representations he has received from the Mayor of each month of the last 10 years. [276995] London on possible sites for new prisons within London. [277474] Bridget Prentice: Figures for Reading, East constituency are not available. However, the tables show the number of mortgage and landlord possession orders made in Mr. Straw: As part of an exercise to identify potential Reading county court for each month from 1999. sites for a prison in London, officials from the Ministry These figures do not indicate how many homes have of Justice met the current mayor in mid-2008 to discuss actually been repossessed. Repossessions can occur without possible prison sites. Prior to this, a meeting was held in a court order being made while not all court orders autumn 2007 with the former mayor. result in repossession. In addition, I spoke to the Mayor on 27 April 2009, The civil procedure rules state that all claims for the the day of announcement of the site at Beam Park West repossession of land must be commenced in the district to Parliament. in which the land is situated. However, geographical boundaries of county courts may not necessarily be consistent with other administrative or constituency Probation Officers boundaries. Repossession orders made at Reading county court may therefore relate to properties in other constituencies besides Reading, East constituency. Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for The Ministry of Justice has published a consultation Justice what steps are being taken to ensure that note on proposed changes in the National Statistics on sufficient probation officers are trained over the next mortgage and landlord possession actions in the county two years. [277055] courts of England and Wales. One of the proposed changes is to publish these statistics by local authority Mr. Hanson: Five hundred and fifty probation officers area, based on the physical locations of the properties graduate from their diploma course in autumn 2009 which are the subject of the possession actions, as and 300 will graduate in autumn 2010. This is sufficient part of the regular statistical publication from 2009 to meet expected vacancies for probation officers over quarter 2. the next two years. I intend to publish shortly a consultation Further information can be found on the Ministry of on a new framework for qualifications; training and Justice website at career progression for probation practitioners which http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/docs/stats-mort- will be in place from April 2010. landlord-note.pdf

Number of mortgage1 possession orders made2,3 in Reading county court by each month, 1999-2009 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 20094

January 48 6 31 18 23 3 41 85 56 46 41 February 28 32 7 22 12 66 19 43 32 56 530 March 32 16 27 17 27 38 58 51 42 55 530 April 20 25 20 37 8 25 37 46 39 63 — May 13 28 29 8 55 12 37 37 50 69 — June 25 38 21 20 25 24 46 26 41 50 — July 1393427243842435167— August 10 16 34 9 2 38 79 56 42 64 — September 39 34 27 30 70 34 71 84 60 78 — October 0 42 0 24 29 16 39 40 44 67 — November 38 15 11 11 2 36 46 64 39 43 — December 29 20 13 14 59 49 19 53 28 42 — Total 295 281 254 237 336 379 534 628 524 700 41

Number of landlord6 possession orders made2,3 in Reading county court by each month, 1999-2009 1999 2000 2001 2002 20Q3 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 20094

January 51 77 71 74 46 58 70 79 76 77 67 February 61 54 44 37 41 50 47 66 67 70 80 March 55 71 66 56 57 64 82 53 68 55 96 April 52 77 45 53 68 51 61 49 38 97 — May 64923958914954514751— June 66 86 33 40 35 51 28 37 67 62 — July 67 77 64 89 49 34 94 59 56 70 — August 52 69 32 54 65 71 44 70 63 35 — September 80 106 57 76 85 71 42 63 64 70 — October 26 95 47 57 40 39 56 58 66 77 — November 113 48 62 68 47 44 65 61 60 54 — 533W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 534W

Number of landlord6 possession orders made2,3 in Reading county court by each month, 1999-2009 1999 2000 2001 2002 20Q3 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 20094

December 53 42 31 49 53 74 59 45 57 75 — Total 740 894 591 711 677 656 702 691 729 793 243 1 Includes all types of mortgage lenders. 2 The court, following a judicial hearing, may grant an order for possession immediately. This entitles the claimant to apply for a warrant to have the defendant evicted. However, even where a warrant for possession is issued, the parties can still negotiate a compromise to prevent eviction. 3 Includes outright and suspended orders, the latter being where the court grants the claimant possession but suspends the operation of the order. Provided the defendant complies with the terms of suspension, which usually require the defendant to pay the current mortgage or rent instalments plus some of the accrued arrears, the possession order cannot be enforced. 4 Figures for the latest quarter (January-March 2009) are provisional. And figures for quarter 2 (April-June) are yet to be released by Ministry of Justice as National Statistics. 5 The Mortgage Pre Action Protocol for possession claims relating to mortgage or home purchase arrears was introduced on 19 November 2008. Its introduction has coincided with a substantial fall in the number of new mortgage possession claims in 2008 quarter 4 and subsequently In the number of mortgage possession orders in 2009 quarter 1. 6 The landlord data include all types of landlords whether social or private sector, and cover orders made using both the standard and accelerated possession procedures. The accelerated procedure is used by landlords in relation to shorthold tenancies, when the fixed period of tenancy has come to an end. It enables orders to be made by the court solely on the basis of written evidence and without calling the parties to hearings. Source: Ministry of Justice

Young Offenders Number of persistent young offenders (PYOs) sentenced in 2008, by police force area Police force area Number of persistent young offenders Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many persistent young offenders there are in each Devon and Cornwall 335 Dorset 143 criminal justice area. [276847] Durham 259 Dyfed-Powys 134 Mr. Straw: A persistent young offender (PYO) is a Essex 397 young person aged 10 to 17 who has been sentenced Gloucestershire 164 guilty by any criminal court in the UK on three or more Greater Manchester 1,158 separate occasions for one or more recordable offence, Gwent 173 and within three years of the last sentencing occasion is Hampshire 676 subsequently arrested or has an information laid against Hertfordshire 188 them for a further recordable offence. Humberside 365 This definition is designed to measure the speed and Kent 354 efficiency of the youth justice system; through monitoring Lancashire 617 the pledge to halve the average time from arrest to Leicestershire 232 sentence for dealing with PYOs in England and Wales Lincolnshire 106 from 142 days in 1996 to 71 days. However, the definition Merseyside 471 is not designed to provide a reliable measure of the level Metropolitan 1,849 of youth offending over time, and it will give a misleading Norfolk 157 picture of the true trend if used for this purpose. North Wales 203 The above pledge was first met over a full calendar North Yorkshire 250 year in 2002 and has been met in all but one calendar Northamptonshire 160 year since then. Youth sentencing is therefore now more Northumbria 826 timely, and for repeat offenders more frequent, than it Nottinghamshire 331 used to be prior to 1997. As the PYO definition relies on South Wales 355 repeat sentencing occasions, a side-effect of the South Yorkshire 388 Government’s success in bringing much swifter justice Staffordshire 268 to young repeat offenders is that more of them end up Suffolk 208 being defined as PYOs. Surrey 120 Sussex 362 The table shows the number of individual PYOs Thames Valley 428 sentenced in 2008, for each police force area. Warwickshire 117 On 10 December 2008, Official Report, columns West Mercia 312 58-59WS, I announced in a written ministerial statement West Midlands 715 that the PYO pledge would be dropped with effect from West Yorkshire 875 the end of 2008. This is therefore the last year for which Wiltshire 111 PYO statistics will be published and compiled. Number of persistent young offenders (PYOs) sentenced in 2008, England and Wales1 15,819 by police force area 1 The England and Wales total figure includes British Transport Police. Police force area Number of persistent young offenders

Avon and Somerset 394 WORK AND PENSIONS Bedfordshire 110 Cambridgeshire 191 ATOS Healthcare Cheshire 242 Cleveland 304 Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Cumbria 240 and Pensions when his Department’s contract with Derbyshire 296 Atos Healthcare is expected to expire. [275104] 535W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 536W

Jonathan Shaw: The Department for Work and Pensions whether such targets have been set for the reductions of contract with Atos Healthcare commenced on 1 September levels of such arrears; and if he will make a statement. 2005 and is due to expire on 31 August 2012. The [274722] Department also has options to extend for a further five years up to 31 August 2017. Kitty Ussher [holding answer 12 May 2009]: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is Children: Maintenance responsible for the child maintenance system. I have therefore asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner Mr. Vara: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and to write to the hon. Member with the information Pensions how many child maintenance cases are unable requested. to be processed due to technical faults with the Child Letter from Stephen Geraghty: Maintenance and Enforcement Commission’s In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question, the Secretary computer systems; how many cases have been so of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance affected in each of the last five years; and what the (a) Commissioner. longest and (b) average delay in processing claims due You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how to computer system failures was in (i) North West much was owed in arrears of child maintenance payments in each Cambridgeshire constituency, (ii) Cambridgeshire, (iii) quarter of each of the last two years; what recent progress has been made towards the payment of such arrears; what priority the the East of England and (iv) the North West and Wales payment of such arrears has in the work programme of the Child in each of the last five years. [274048] Maintenance Enforcement Commission; whether such targets have been set for the reductions of levels of such arrears; and if he Kitty Ussher: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement will make a statement. [274722] Commission is responsible for the child maintenance Information on the amount of child maintenance arrears owed system. I have therefore asked the Child Maintenance by non-resident parents is routinely published in both the Child Commissioner to write to the hon. Member with the Support Agency Annual Report and Accounts and the Quarterly information requested. Summary of Statistics, both of which provide the latest audited estimate of child maintenance arrears to the end of March 2008. Letter from Stephen Geraghty: This information by quarter is set out in the attached table. The In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Commission’s latest estimate on the amount of child maintenance Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary arrears owed by non-resident parents in each quarter of the last of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance year to March 2009 is also set out in the attached table. The table Commissioner. also includes the amount of child maintenance collected and You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how arranged for each quarter from March 07 to March 09. This many child maintenance cases are currently unable to be processed estimate is based on the Commission’s internal analysis and is due to technical faults with the Child Maintenance and Enforcement subject to year end audit. The fully audited estimate will be Commission’s computer systems; how many cases have been so published in the Child Support Agency Annual Report and affected in each of the last five years; and what the (a) longest and Accounts 2009, currently expected to be published in July. (b) average delay in processing claims due to computer system Collection of maintenance including arrears remains a priority failures was in (i) North West Cambridgeshire (ii) Cambridgeshire for the Child Support Agency and its targets for the current year (iii) the East of England and (iv) North West England and Wales include the collection of £1135 million of which £170 million in each of the last five years. [274048] should be arrears. It is the total collected, rather than the separate Technical faults with the Child Support Agency’s computer amounts of current maintenance and arrears which affects movements systems result in cases being progressed clerically rather than not in the total arrears outstanding, and there is no separate target to being processed. The Commission routinely publishes information reduce the total. The Child Support Agency has made significant on the number of cases which are processed clerically. This progress in the amount of maintenance collected over the period information is not available at regional level, and the latest of its Operational Improvement Plan and as a result the rate at national figures are available in Table 20 of the Child Support which arrears has grown has slowed dramatically from £23 million Agency’s Quarterly Summary of Statistics; a copy of which is per month in 2004/5 to less than £2 million per month in per available in the House of Commons library, or online at: month in 2008/9 (based on un-audited figures). http://www.childmaintenance.org/publications/statistics.html However the current amount of arrears owed by non-resident The number of cases the Agency managed clerically at a parents is the cumulative total of sixteen years of maintenance national level at 31 March 2009 was 60,000, which is less than 5% owed and new arrears will continue to accrue as it is not possible of the total caseload. Although the need to progress such claims to achieve total compliance. clerically is not ideal, around £1 million in child maintenance is Child maintenance arrears and maintenance collected and arranged including now collected each week for these cases. arrears each quarter from March 2007 to March 2009. The growth in the number of cases progressed clerically in the Child maintenance arrears Overall maintenance collected and arranged last six months is primarily a result of an upgrade to the Agency’s including arrears (rolling 12 Months) computer system in September 2008 which allowed the Agency to Total maintenance Of which identify cases previously stuck and take action to progress them Quarter Arrears 12 months collected arrears clerically. Information about any delays in processing individual ending (£ billion) ending (£ million) (£ million) claims clerically due to technical or other problems with the computer system is not available. March 3.69 March 2007 898 91 2007 I am sorry on this occasion I could not be more helpful. June 2007 3.73 June 2007 916 97 September 3.76 September 2007 942 106 Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007 Work and Pensions how much was owed in arrears of December 3.79 December 2007 975 116 child maintenance payments in each quarter of each of 2007 the last two years; what recent progress has been made March 3.81 March 2008 1,010 126 towards the payment of such arrears; what priority the 2008 payment of such arrears has in the work programme of the Child Maintenance Enforcement Commission; June 20081 3.82 June 2008 1,050 138 537W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 538W

Child maintenance arrears and maintenance collected and arranged including Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for Work arrears each quarter from March 2007 to March 2009. and Pensions how much debt is owed to the Child Child maintenance arrears Overall maintenance collected and arranged including arrears (rolling 12 Months) Support Agency. [275407] Total maintenance Of which Kitty Ussher: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Quarter Arrears 12 months collected arrears ending (£ billion) ending (£ million) (£ million) Commission is responsible for the child maintenance system. I have therefore asked the Child Maintenance September 3.83 September 2008 1,088 149 1 Commissioner to write to the hon. Member with the 2008 information requested. December 3.84 December 2008 1,112 156 20081 Letter from Stephen Geraghty: March 3.83 March 2009 1,132 158 In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the 20091 Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive 1 Figures up to and including March 2008 have been audited. Figures after this date are yet to be audited and signed off. reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child Note: Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance The total debt outstanding is cumulative total of all debt accrued since the and Enforcement Commission. launch of the Child Support Agency in 1993. You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how much debt is owed to the Child Support Agency. [275407]. Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for Information on the amount of child maintenance arrears owed Work and Pensions how many non-resident parents by non-resident parents is routinely published in both the Child who owed child maintenance (a) received prison Support Agency Annual Report and Accounts and the Quarterly sentences, (b) received suspended prison sentences, (c) Summary of Statistics, both of which provide the latest audited had their driving licences removed and (d) had their estimate of child maintenance arrears to the end of March 2008. houses or other assets sequestered in the last year for As at March 2009, the amount of Child Maintenance Arrears which figures are available. [274723] owed by non-resident parents to parents with care or the Secretary of State is £3.8 billion. This figure is un-audited. Kitty Ussher [holding answer 12 May 2009]: The The Agency is collecting more arrears than it has ever done Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is before and in March 2009 collected £13.8 million in maintenance responsible for the child maintenance system. I have arrears alone. A total of £158m has been collected in arrears in therefore asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner the year ending March 2009, an increase of £31.7m from the to write to the hon. Member with the information previous 12 months. requested. I hope you find this answer helpful. Letter from Stephen Geraghty: In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question the Secretary Climate Change of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner. Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of his many non-resident parents who owed child maintenance (a) received prison sentences, (b) received suspended prison sentences, Department’s potential gross (a) costs and (b) savings (c) had their driving licences removed and (d) had their houses or arising from its climate change adaptation measures in other assets sequestered in the last year for which figures are the next three years. [277717] available. 274723 In the 12 months to the end of January 2009, 30 non-resident Jonathan Shaw: The high level review, undertaken by parents received prison sentences, 510 received suspended prison the Met Office and delivered in January 2008, of the sentences, 30 non-resident parents received suspended driving impacts of climate on the polices and operations of licence disqualification and 5 were disqualified from driving. In the same period the Child Support Agency referred 106 cases for DWP did not seek to identify any costs or savings Order for Sale action of which 45 hearings have concluded, with associated with adaptation. The more detailed review, 27 orders being granted and a further 29 awaiting a hearing. The which will be commissioned when the 2009 UK Climate Agency took possession of 3 properties and in a further 14 cases Impact Projections are published, will further explore are awaiting payment prior to possession being taken. the key business, customer and operational issues and The Child Support Agency has also increased the number of begin to estimate the costs and savings associated with enforcement actions targeted at assets including capital, available climate change and adaptation. to non-resident parents. A total of 18,320 cases were referred to Bailiffs (including ’attachments’ in Scotland) who can seize assets to recover debt. A total of 5,785, third party debt orders or Council Tax Benefits arrestments in Scotland as well as charging orders were taken out enabling the Child Support Agency to access funds held by third parties such as banks or building societies, or to place a charge on Julia Goldsworthy: To ask the Secretary of State for the equity in property. Finally in Scotland alone 1,760 Bills of Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 20 April Inhibition were taken out, this is a personal prohibition preventing 2009, Official Report, column 107W, on council tax heritable property being transferred, alienated or disposed of by benefits, if he will estimate the cost to the public purse the non-resident parent. of altering personal allowances for council tax benefit Table 21 of the March 2009 Child Support Agency Quarterly to provide for households where no individual earns Summary of Statistics (QSS) gives information on the total more than £10,000 per annum, including personal tax volume of different enforcement actions undertaken by the Agency. allowance, to receive full council tax benefit, regardless The QSS is available in the House of Commons library or online of the amount of capital held; and if he will make an at: estimate of the number of households which would pay http://www.childmaintenance.org/publications/statistics.html a reduced rate or no council tax as a result of such a I hope you find this answer helpful. change. [276552] 539W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 540W

Kitty Ussher [holding answer 20 May 2009]: The Jonathan Shaw: Government policies and programmes following table shows the estimated cost and number of affect the lives of millions of people and in order for council tax benefit (CTB) beneficiaries if full CTB was them to work they must be communicated effectively. awarded to all households where no individual earns However, this has also to be done with cost efficiency in more than £10,000 per annum, regardless of the amount mind and there are strict rules to ensure value for of capital held. money on Government advertising. Full CTB if no individual earns more than £10,000 Much Government advertising aims to alert people Cost in annually managed to things that can save lives—and we make no apologies Number of expenditure (£ million for campaigns like this—such as wearing seat belts, not beneficiaries per year) drinking and driving, quitting smoking and what to do Pensioners 1,500,000 1,350 in an emergency. We also use our communications work Working age 1,100,000 800 to protect public funds, for example through our work Total 2,610,000 2,140 to drive down benefit fraud. Notes: The other main area of activity is in recruiting people 1. All figures are for Great Britain. to important frontline services such as in attracting 2. Beneficiaries are rounded to the nearest 10,000 and costs are more people to become nurses and police, which are rounded to the nearest £10 million. These estimates include customers crucial to the public’s welfare. who gain and those who become entitled to the benefit. 3. Each beneficiary represents a benefit unit, which can be a single The channels used for advertising in the media are claimant or a couple. firstly via the advertising and media buying roster of 4. The impact is estimated using the Department’s Policy Simulation the Central Office of Information for campaign and Model for 2008-09, using data from the 2006-07 Family Resources Survey up-rated to 2008-09 prices, benefit rates and earnings levels, editorial requirements and, secondly, via local and national and is calibrated to latest published forecasts and policies. newspapers for recruitment and low value, low complexity 5. Results are subject to sampling and reporting errors and estimation adverts on behalf of DWP agencies. assumptions, and are therefore indicative only. No behavioural changes are assumed. The spend requested is detailed in the following tables: Departmental Hotels Central Office of Information—May 2009 £ John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Type and Pensions how much his Department has spent on April to hotel accommodation for officials in (a) the last 12 March each months and (b) each of the last three years. [277893] year Dailies Weeklies Total Kitty Ussher: The Department has in place policies 2004-05 2,106,570 2,036,635 4,143,205 that ensure when any officials are required, as a result of 2005-06 1,178,870 1,287,684 2,466,554 their duties, to stay in hotels they are provided with 2006-07 697,279 548,869 1,246,148 accommodation that is safe, secure and of an acceptable 2007-08 1,012,708 1,188,008 2,200,716 standard. 2008-09 2,244,547 1,392,521 3,637,068 The table shows the Department’s expenditure on Total 7,239,974 6,453,717 13,693,691 hotel accommodation for officials in each of the last Note: three years. The figures need to be seen against the These data apply to all regional publications and are split by dailies background of a Department with over 100,000 staff and weeklies. whose responsibilities cover the whole of Great Britain. Non-COI advertising £ Hotel spend £ million Type April to 1 April 2008-31 March 2009 12.3 March each 1 April 2007-31 March 2008 11.6 year Local National Total 1 June 2006-31 March 2007 9.7 2006-07 8,752 4,125 12,877 Detailed data are only available since June 2006. The 2007-08 10,515 20,085 30,600 figures shown for 2006-07 therefore cover an eight-month 2008-09 24,091 142,338 166,429 period. Total 43,358 166,548 209,906 Notes: John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 1. All non-COI advertising is via local and national newspaper and Pensions what plans he has to review the level of publications. expenditure by staff of his Department on hotel 2. Data for 2004-05 and 2005-06 are not available as they were not held centrally at that time. The Department would incur disproportionate accommodation. [277916] cost to try and obtain these data. Kitty Ussher: The Department’s Commercial Directorate review the level of expenditure on hotel accommodation on a monthly basis to ensure best value is being obtained from its contractual arrangements. Departmental Mobile Phones Departmental Marketing Mr. Hoban: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Ann Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many (a) BlackBerry devices and and Pensions how much has been spent by his Department (b) mobile telephones have been lost by (i) Ministers, on advertising in weekly and regional newspapers in the (ii) special advisers and (iii) civil servants in his last five years. [277148] Department in each year since 2005. [274471] 541W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 542W

Jonathan Shaw: The information is not available in Incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance claimants with the the format requested, and could be provided only at medical condition of obesity in Great Britain disproportionate cost. The information that is available As at August each is given in the following table. This records items reported year All Obesity as lost or stolen. 2004 2,817,010 1,780 2005 2,767,740 1,840 BlackBerry devices Mobile telephones 2006 2,724,980 1,910 2005 0 31 2007 2,683,160 2,010 2006 0 15 2008 2,632,000 2,130 2007 19 14 Notes: 1. Data are rounded to the nearest 10. 2008 16 35 2. Data are for GB and abroad. 3. Causes of incapacity are based on the International Classification Two of the BlackBerry devices reported in 2007 were of Diseases, 10th Revision, published by the World Health Organisation. lost by Ministers. None have been reported as lost by or 4. To qualify for incapacity benefit/severe disablement Allowance, claimants have to undertake a medical assessment of incapacity for stolen from, Ministers since then. work which is called the personal capability assessment. Therefore, the medical condition recorded on the incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance claim form does not itself confer entitlement to incapacity Disability Living Allowance benefits. 5. People claiming incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance may also qualify for income support on grounds of incapacity. Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 6. From 27 October 2008, employment and support allowance replaced incapacity benefit and income support for new claims only. information and Pensions how many people have claimed disability about employment and support allowance is not yet available. living allowance in circumstances where the main Source: disabling condition was recorded as obesity in each of Department for work and Pensions Information Directorate 100 per the last 10 years. [266115] cent. Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study. To qualify for jobseeker’s allowance, unemployed Mike Penning: To ask the Secretary of State for Work people must be available for and actively seeking work. and Pensions (1) how many people have received They are also required to enter into a jobseeker’s agreement benefits as a result of obesity in each of the last five in which they agree the steps they will take to improve years; [266641] their chances of finding employment. Jobseekers generally (2) how many people have received (a) jobseeker’s have to be available immediately for any work and for a allowance and (b) income support as a result of minimum of 40 hours each week. Where a person is unable to undertake any work, due to ill health, they obesity in each of the last five years. [267242] will not be entitled to JSA and should claim an alternative benefit. Jonathan Shaw: Having a condition of obesity does not confer entitlement to any benefit. Employment Schemes It is important to note that, where someone has more than one diagnosis or disabling condition, only the Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work predominant one is currently recorded. In light of this, and Pensions which staff in (a) his Department and the information provided cannot be taken as a robust (b) its agencies are responsible for administering the indication of the underlying condition that results in employers’ golden hello scheme announced by his entitlement to incapacity benefits. Department on 12 January 2009. [269014] Entitlement to disability living allowance is not dependent on a diagnosis or condition but relies instead on the Mr. McNulty: Jobcentre Plus employer engagement care and/or mobility needs arising. In the case of someone staff, personal advisers and centralised payment processing with obesity, people with this recorded diagnosis may teams will be responsible for administering the recruitment have other underlying physical or mental complications subsidy.All financial transactions relating to the recruitment that have caused/exacerbated their obesity. subsidy to employers will be the responsibility of the Information about the number of people receiving Department of Work and Pensions’ Shared Services. disability living allowance where the main disabling condition is recorded as obesity is not collated centrally Employment Services: Lone Parents at this level of detail. For a person to qualify for incapacity benefit/severe Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State disablement allowance, they have to undertake a medical for Work and Pensions what recent steps his assessment of incapacity for work which is called the Department has taken to assist single parents seeking personal capability assessment. Entitlement for a customer employment during the economic downturn. [270926] claiming incapacity benefit on the grounds of obesity would be based on their ability to carry out the range of Kitty Ussher: From 6 April, lone parents on jobseeker’s activities in the personal capability assessment. allowance for six months or more can access an expanded The available information for incapacity benefit/severe range of work, training and volunteering opportunities. disablement allowance is in the table. Some of those This includes incentives of up to £2,500 for employers people who claim incapacity benefit/severe disablement to recruit and train unemployed people, consisting of a allowance will also claim income support on grounds of recruitment subsidy worth £1,000 and depending on incapacity. location, access to in-work training worth a further 543W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 544W

£1,500. Qualifying jobseekers who wish to become self We are not aware of any Jobcentre offices having to turn employed also have access to practical advice and financial people away. To ensure that capacity problems do not arise in the support to start a business. future we are examining service delivery plans, including, where necessary, options for the physical expansion of sites that may Longer-term jobseekers will receive help from the face pressure in the short to medium term. flexible new deal which will provide job-search support Jobcentre Plus Customer Service Directors regularly review tailored to the specific needs of the individual and their service delivery plans to ensure optimum provision, and address related barriers to employment. The flexible accessibility, of service for all customers. new deal will be introduced in phase one areas from I am confident that the process of regular review of local October 2009. service delivery plans will ensure that this situation does not arise. Additionally, all single parents in receipt of working-age Jobcentre Plus: Manpower benefits continue to have immediate access to the new deal for lone parents. This voluntary programme provides access to a specialist personal adviser, in-work benefit Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work advice and a range of other assistance. and Pensions how many staff employed by his Department’s agencies other than Jobcentre Plus work Income Support: Mortgages in Jobcentre Plus offices; which agencies such staff work for; and for how long he expects such working Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State arrangements to endure. [269045] for Work and Pensions what information his Department holds on the number of people receiving assistance Mr. McNulty: The administration of Jobcentre Plus from his Department with the cost of meeting mortgage is a matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre interest repayments. [270854] Plus, Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. Member with the information requested. Kitty Ussher: The most recent information available Letter from Mel Groves: is in the following table. The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question Number of people receiving assistance with mortgage interest in Great asking how many staff employed by DWP’s agencies other than Britain, as at November 2008 Jobcentre Plus work in Jobcentre Plus offices; which agencies Number such staff work for; and for how long we expect such working arrangements to endure. This is something that falls within the Income support 76,800 responsibilities delegated to me as Acting Chief Executive of Jobseeker’s allowance (income 5,500 Jobcentre Plus. based) Up until 31 March 2009, Jobcentre Plus headcount was being Pension Credit 110,300 supplemented by around 470 full-time equivalents (FTEs) on Notes: loan from Pensions, Disability and Carers Service (PDCS), and 1. Figures have been rounded to the nearest 100. Debt Management within DWP. The table below sets out the 2. The best statistics on benefits are now derived from 100 per cent. current numbers from 1 April 2009 and when the loan period is data sources. However, the 5 per cent. sample data still provide some planned to end. We also have planned the transfer of around 500 detail not yet available from the 100 per cent. data sources. people on a permanent basis from the Child Maintenance and 3. Mortgage interest can only be claimed on income-based Enforcement Commission between 1 March and 30 June 2009. jobseeker’s allowance. Source: Number of staff Date loan period is Department for Work and Pensions, Information Directorate, 5 per DWP Business area (FTEs) planned to end cent. sample. Jobcentre Plus PDCS 21 End of April 2009 Debt Management 300 End of May 2009 Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work DWP shared services 50 End of March 2010 and Pensions (1) how many and what proportion of DWP corporate HR 37 End of June 2009 Jobcentre offices have reported physical capacity Total 457 constraints in the last 12 months; and what guidance his Department has issued to jobcentres on physical Jobseeker’s Allowance: Interviews capacity; [266132] (2) what estimate he has made of the number of Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work people who have not received Jobcentre services as a and Pensions (1) what the average waiting time was for result of physical capacity constraints in the last 12 first jobseeker interviews for a claimant for Jobseeker’s months. [266133] Allowance in each of the smallest geographical areas for which information is available in the latest period Mr. McNulty: The administration of Jobcentre Plus for which figures are available; [271721] is a matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre (2) what the average waiting time was for first jobseeker Plus, Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the right interviews for a claim for jobseeker’s allowance in the hon. Member with the information requested. latest period for which information is available. [275548] Letter from Mel Groves: The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your questions Mr. McNulty: Jobcentre Plus does not collect the asking how many and what proportion of Jobcentre offices have average waiting time. The available information on the reported physical capacity issues in the last 12 months; and what percentage of new jobseeker interviews booked within guidance his Department has issued on capacity problems; and what estimate he has made of the number of people turned away three days from the date the customer first contacts us is from Jobcentre offices owing to capacity issues in the last 12 in the table. The data show performance for the operational months. This is something that falls within the responsibilities year ending March 2009 down to district level, the delegated to me as Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. smallest geographical area available. 545W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 546W

New jobseeker interviews booked New jobseeker interviews booked within three days March 2009 YTD (percentage) within three days March 2009 YTD (percentage)

Derbyshire 69.7 South West 67.6 Leicestershire and 71.5 Northamptonshire Birmingham and Solihull 65.5 Lincolnshire and Rutland 71.5 Black Country 72.6 Nottinghamshire 64.8 Coventry and Warwickshire 60.3 East Midlands 69.5 Staffordshire 59.1 The Marches 54.4 Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire 80.9 West Midlands 63.7 Cambridgeshire and Suffolk 73.0 Essex 80.2 North and East Yorkshire and 79.9 Norfolk 72.9 Humber East of England 77.3 South Yorkshire 69.9 West Yorkshire 75.2 Central London 80.7 Yorkshire and the Humber 75.3 City and East London 81.8 Lambeth, Southwark and 74.0 National 74.1 Wandsworth Source: North and North East London 84.8 Jobcentre Plus South London 79.6 Mortgages: Government Assistance West London 80.3 London 80.5 Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether the changes to the support Northumbria 73.7 offered under the income support for mortgage interest South Tyne and Wear Valley 73.1 scheme which came into effect in January 2009 are Tees Valley 71.9 applicable to people who were claiming before that North East 73.0 date; and if he will make a statement. [277690]

Cheshire and Warrington 75.3 Kitty Ussher: The changes introduced to support for Cumbria and Lancashire 69.6 mortgage interest from 5 January 2009 apply to working Greater Manchester Central 76.0 age people who make new claims on or after that date. Greater Manchester East and 69.6 People who claimed income support, employment West and support allowance and jobseeker’s allowance before Merseyside 76.2 5 January, but who were still in a waiting period for North West 72.8 support for mortgage interest on 4 January also benefit from these changes. Ayr, Dumfries and Galloway 86.4 People who were already receiving support for mortgage Edinburgh, Lothian and 82.6 interest before 5 January were unaffected. Borders All customers, existing and new, including those on Forth Valley and Fife 86.6 pension credit, are helped by the freeze to the standard Glasgow 85.3 interest rate used to calculate support for mortgage Highlands, Islands and Clyde 81.4 interest at 6.08 per cent. until December 2009. Lanarkshire 88.0 Office for Scotland 84.9 Pensioners: Carers’ Benefits

North and Mid Wales 82.5 Mr. Gale: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and South East Wales 83.9 Pensions for what reason women over 60 years old are South Wales Valleys 77.0 not eligible to receive adult dependency increase in South West Wales 84.2 respect of a husband or civil partner under 65 years Office for Wales 81.7 old. [277106]

Ms Rosie Winterton [holding answer 1 June 2009]: Berkshire, Buckinghamshire and 74.9 Oxfordshire Differences have existed in relation to dependency increases Hampshire 75.8 of benefit since the inception of the Social Security scheme in 1948, mainly because women were not regarded Kent 62.6 in general as having to support their husbands who Surrey and Sussex 64.0 would tend to have their own personal access to national South East 68.8 insurance benefits. The Pensions Act 2007 abolished these outdated Devon and Cornwall 68.2 dependency rules for state pensions and from April Gloucestershire and Wiltshire 59.3 2010 no further increases will be awarded with the state Somerset and Dorset 73.3 pension. By April 2020 any remaining adult dependency West of England 70.0 payments paid with a state pension will cease completely. 547W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 548W

Poverty: Children Risk of living in relative (60 percent of median) low income poverty (AHC) for Working age adults by region and country (percent) 3 year average Mr. Moore: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Region/country 2004-05 to 2006-07 2005-06 to 2007-08 and Pensions what projection his Department has made of the level of (a) absolute and (b) relative child South East 16 17 poverty in (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11 and (iii) 2011-12; South West 18 18 and what information his Department holds on the geographical distribution of the increase since 2006-07 Scotland 18 19 in the number of (A) children and (B) adults of Wales 20 23 working age living in relative poverty after housing Northern Ireland 18 18 costs announced on 7 May 2009. [276514] Social Security Benefits Kitty Ussher: The information requested is as follows: Mr. Ancram: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Child poverty projections and Pensions what proportion of benefit claimants The Government do not publish official projections receiving each type of benefit are aged between 18 and of child poverty into the future due to the uncertainty 30 years. [276259] surrounding the assumptions made around future demography, employment and average earnings, as well Kitty Ussher: The most recent available information as the uprating of tax credits and benefits. is in the following tables. The geographical distribution of poverty Proportion of benefit recipients aged 18-30 in Great Britain as at This information can be found in the latest release of November 2008 Households Below Average Income which is available Percentage on the DWP website and in the Library. In this, Incapacity Benefit (IB) 13.4 disaggregation by geographical regions is presented as Severe Disablement Allowance 7.3 three-year averages. This presentation has been used as (SDA) single-year regional estimates are considered too volatile. Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) 46.2 The most recent available data available since 2006/07 Income Support 27.3 are in the following tables. Carers Allowance (CA) 11.5 Risk of living in relative (60 per cent. of median) low income poverty Disability Living Allowance (DLA) 7.9 (AHC) for children by region and country (per cent.) three-year Bereavement Benefits (BB) 1.5 average Note: Region/country 2004-05 to 2006-07 2005-06 to 2007-08 Proportions are rounded to the nearest 1 decimal place. Source: England 30 31 DWP Information Directorate 100 percent WPLS Proportion of benefit recipients aged 18-30 in Great Britain North East 33 33 as at May 2004 North West 31 34 Percentage Yorkshire and the 29 30 Council Tax Benefit 11 Humber Housing Benefit (HB) 15 East Midlands 29 30 Note: West Midlands 33 35 Proportions are rounded to the nearest whole per cent. East of England 25 26 Source: London 41 39 Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Management information South East 25 26 System Annual 1 per cent. sample taken in May 2008 South West 26 27 Welfare Reform Bill

Scotland 25 24 Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Wales 29 32 and Pensions what discussions he has had with the Northern Ireland 26 26 Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families on the provision of childcare to enable single parents to Risk of living in relative (60 percent of median) low income poverty carry out work-related activity under the provisions of (AHC) for Working age adults by region and country (percent) the Welfare Reform Bill 2008-09; and if he will make a 3 year average statement. [275404] Region/country 2004-05 to 2006-07 2005-06 to 2007-08

England 20 21 Kitty Ussher: The Department works closely with the Department for Children, Schools and Families to ensure North East 22 23 the successful delivery of the National Childcare Strategy North West 21 22 for England, which aims to ensure that there is sufficient Yorkshire and the 20 21 child care available to meet the needs of working families Humber and to support parents who are undertaking work East Midlands 20 20 related activities. Key to this are the provisions in the West Midlands 22 23 Childcare Act 2006, which includes a duty on local East of England 17 18 authorities to secure sufficient child care to ensure they London 24 24 meet the need of their local communities, in particular for those on low incomes and who have disabled children. 549W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 550W

WOMEN AND EQUALITY John McDonnell: To ask the Minister for Women and Equality how many calls have been received by the Equality and Human Rights Commission: Pay Equality and Human Rights Commission’s helpline in each quarter since its inception. [277900] John McDonnell: To ask the Minister for Women and Maria Eagle: The Equality and Human Rights Equality how many bonuses have been awarded to Commission’s helpline has been operational since 1 October senior civil servants working in the Equality and 2007. Robust reporting systems were not in place until Human Rights Commission in each year since its February 2008. The available call statistics from that inception; and what expenditure was incurred on such date are as follows: bonuses in each year. [277878] Number of calls received Maria Eagle: No bonuses have been awarded to senior civil servants working in the Equality and Human February to June 2008 28,247 Rights Commission during the period 1 October 2007 July to September 2008 17,172 to 31 May 2009. October to December 2008 14,924 January to March 2009 22,113 Equality and Human Rights Commission: Telephone Services

John McDonnell: To ask the Minister for Women and DEFENCE Equality what the cost of (a) recruiting and (b) training helpline staff in the Equality and Human Armed Forces: Foreigners Rights Commission has been in each year since its creation. [277875] Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence pursuant to the answer of 11 May 2009, Maria Eagle: The information is as follows: Official Report, column 608W, whether his Department 2007-08: has received representation from other governments on the employment of their citizens in the UK armed (a) £326,228 was spent on recruitment of helpline staff; forces between 2000 and the issue of his Written (b) £211,070 was spent on training of helpline staff. Ministerial Statement on army nationality policy of 2008-09: 2 February 2009, Official Report, columns 33-4WS. (a) No further recruitment took place; [277010] (b) £20,000 was spent on training of helpline staff. Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The Ministry of Defence has not John McDonnell: To ask the Minister for Women and received any representation from other Governments Equality whether an equality impact assessment on the on the employment of their citizens in the UK armed removal of the Equality and Human Rights forces from 2000 to date. Commission’s helpline from the Manchester office has been undertaken. [277877] Armed Forces: Health Services

Maria Eagle: Following the announcement of the Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence proposed changes to the helpline in February 2009, the what assistance his Department provides to members EHRC has been completing an equality impact assessment of the armed forces who have been invalided out of which will continue to be updated as part of the on-going service; what (a) discussions he has had and (b) consultation and decision making process. A full analysis representations he has received on this issue since 2008; of the equality impact assessments and mitigations will whether he plans to increase the assistance available be made available to the senior management team ahead during the next 12 months; and if he will make a of any decision being taken. statement. [277007]

John McDonnell: To ask the Minister for Women and Mr. Kevan Jones: We take our responsibilities for Equality what discussions the Equality and Human those who are medically discharged from the armed Rights Commission had with recognised trades unions forces seriously. For those requiring assistance, MOD on the future of its helpline team in Manchester before provides health care and welfare support in service, but deciding to close the team. [277879] at service termination the primary responsibility passes to the normal civilian agencies. The Department’s Veterans Maria Eagle: Since February 2009 the EHRC have Welfare Service is there to provide advice on issues such been consulting with the trade unions regarding the as entitlement to pensions and compensation under the proposed reorganisation of the helpline. There have Department’s no-fault schemes. In the case of the severely been five formal meetings with the recognised trade injured, the welfare service monitors those discharged unions to discuss the proposal. In addition the trade for a period of at least two years to provide advice unions have been actively involved in a series of action should difficulties arises. groups looking at specific elements of the proposal. Working together with civilian and third sector agencies, The senior management team are currently considering our aim is to achieve a smooth and seamless transition. the points raised during the consultation period by the Those invalided from service are eligible for the MOD’s trade unions and no decision has been made to go full resettlement package, including support into work ahead with the proposed changes. where this is appropriate, and automatic configuration 551W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 552W of pension. Where the invaliding disorder is due to Mr. Kevan Jones [holding answer 12 May 2009]: service, no fault compensation benefits will be assessed 1,237 cases of theft of MOD property were reported to and paid, and for the relevant condition the individual the Ministry of Defence police and service police during will be eligible for NHS priority treatment with additional the last 12 months. It is not possible to identify the benefits such as free prescriptions. individual items reported stolen and the cost of replacing In July 2008 we published the Service Personnel them without incurring disproportionate cost. Command Paper, ‘The Nation’s Commitment: Cross- Harrier Aircraft Government Support for our Armed Forces, their Families and Veterans’, which outlined the pledges we made to ensure service personnel, their families and veterans are Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for not disadvantaged by the unusual demands of serving Defence when he expects the GR4 to replace the in the armed forces and to recognise the sacrifices made Harrier GR9/9A in Afghanistan; and if he will make a by their families and those who have served. statement. [277911] As Minister for Veterans, I meet regularly with veterans Mr. Bob Ainsworth: I refer the hon. Member to the and ex-service organisations. Topics raised since 2008 written statement I made on 25 February 2009, Official have included priority treatment, civilian mental health Report, columns 24-25WS. services, a new study being undertaken into British Nuclear Test Veterans and the issues of cultural Industrial Health and Safety understanding that can arise for those who have served when they seek help from civilian health professionals. Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Officials from the MOD, other Government Departments, how much his Department spent on compliance with the devolved Administrations and the charities continue requirements of health and safety at work legislation in to work together to address all key concerns, communicating each of the last five years; and if he will make a existing entitlements to all those involved, and areas statement. [274545] where improvements might be made to arrangements for ensuring a seamless transition back into civilian life. Mr. Kevan Jones: Health and safety is inherent in everything that the MOD does and how our staff, both Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence civilian and service, conduct themselves. We do not how much his Department allocated to services for separate out such costs associated with compliance with members of the armed forces of each (a) sex, (b) health and safety legislation. The information requested regiment, (c) service and (d) age cohort invalided out is not held centrally and could be provided only at of service in each year since 2003. [277008] disproportionate cost. Mr. Kevan Jones: I refer the hon. Member to the Military Aircraft: Helicopters answer given to him by my predecessor the hon. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) on 10 March 2008, Official Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Report, column 14W. what the budget for helicopter procurement projects Armed Forces: Pay has been in each year since 2001. [277524]

Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Quentin Davies: The in-year budgets for all helicopter Defence what the minimum salary is for a junior officer procurement projects for each year from financial year serving in Afghanistan, excluding operational and 2001-02 to 2008-09 are shown in the following table. separation allowances. [278092] £ million Mr. Kevan Jones: The minimum annual basic pay for 2001-02 842 a junior officer serving in Afghanistan including X-factor effective from 1 April 2009 is £24,133. 2002-03 524 2003-04 318 Departmental Buildings 2004-05 257 2005-06 260 Mr. Garnier: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence 2006-07 209 which military (a) bases and (b) other sites owned by 2007-08 473 his Department containing accommodation areas are 2008-09 448 (i) redundant and (ii) shortly to become redundant for his Department’s purposes. [277867] These figures exclude funding for emergent urgent requirements and some commodity items bought in Mr. Kevan Jones: The information requested will take support of these projects. a little time to gather and verify. I will write to the hon. Parliamentary Questions: Government Responses Member with the information that is available as soon as possible. Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Lost Property Defence when he plans to reply to Question 274945, tabled by the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Fife, on lost and stolen property on 7 May 2009. what property has been lost or stolen from his Department [277917] in the last 12 months; and what the estimated cost was of the replacement of such property. [274945] Mr. Kevan Jones: I replied to the hon. Member today. 553W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 554W

Somalia: Piracy Asylum: Spain

Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Ancram: To ask the Secretary of State for the Defence how many UK military personnel have been Home Department how many applicants for asylum deployed in the Gulf of Aden in each of the last entered the UK via Spain and Gibraltar in the last 12 months. [273089] 12 months. [273316]

Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The number of UK military Mr. Woolas: The UK Border Agency does not record personnel deployed in the Gulf of Aden over the past statistics in relation to asylum applicants travelling to 12 months is broken down by month in the following the UK via Spain and Gibraltar. The information could table. be obtained only at disproportionate cost through the examination of individual case files. Number of UK Military Personnel Asylum seekers should apply in the first safe country. A safe country is one of which the applicant is not a June 2008 880 national or citizen and in which a person’s life or liberty July 2008 675 is not threatened by reason of race, religion, nationality, August 2008 189 membership of a particular social group or political September 2008 872 opinion. It is also one from which a person would not October 2008 255 be sent to another state in contravention of his rights November 2008 460 under the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of December 2008 367 Refugees and the 1967 New York Protocol. January 2009 437 We are countering asylum “shopping” across the EU February 2009 563 through the Dublin Regulation and use of the Eurodac March 2009 442 database, which helps us to identify and make returns to April 2009 194 the responsible member state. Spain is a party to the May 2009 1,635 Dublin Regulation but Gibraltar is not.

The fluctuations in numbers are caused by Royal Children: Protection Naval ships transiting the region as part of an operation or exercise. For example, most recently, the Royal Navy’s Taurus 2009 deployment in May 2009. Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many police officers in each police authority area have received the specialist training necessary to work on child protection. [265225] HOME DEPARTMENT Mr. Alan Campbell: There is a range of specialist Association of Chief Police Officers: Finance training available to police forces for those working in child protection. This includes the ‘Specialist Child Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Abuse Investigators Development Programme’ and local the Home Department what (a) budgetary support multi-agency training in relation to Working Together and (b) other funding her Department has given to guidance. The only data held centrally relate to the the Association of Chief Police Officers in the last online element of the Specialist Child Abuse Investigators 12 months. [276791] Development Programme and these are shown in the table. Mr. Coaker: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave the hon. Member for Southend, West (Mr. Amess) Number of staff who have registered for the online component of the on 20 April 2009, Official Report, column 147W. Specialist Child Abuse Investigators Programme by region and police force. Data as at 20 April 2009 Number Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for ACPO region Police force enrolled the Home Department what the budget is of the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) for Eastern Bedfordshire Police 6 2009-10; and what the salary of the (a) President and Cambridgeshire Constabulary 39 (b) Chief Executive of ACPO is. [276929] Essex Police 24 Mr. Coaker: This is a matter for the Association of Hertfordshire Constabulary 35 Chief Police Officers (ACPO). Norfolk Constabulary 9 Suffolk Constabulary 2 Asylum: Registration Total Eastern 115 Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much her Department spent East Midlands Derbyshire Constabulary 8 on the asylum registration card scheme in 2008. Leicestershire Constabulary 18 [276557] Lincolnshire Police 4 Northamptonshire Police 5 Mr. Woolas: The UK Border Agency does not hold Nottinghamshire Police 4 centrally figures on the amount spent on the Asylum Registration Card Scheme. The information could be Total East Midlands 39 obtained only at disproportionate cost. 555W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 556W

Number of staff who have registered for the online component of the Number of staff who have registered for the online component of the Specialist Child Abuse Investigators Programme by region and police Specialist Child Abuse Investigators Programme by region and police force. Data as at 20 April 2009 force. Data as at 20 April 2009 Number Number ACPO region Police force enrolled ACPO region Police force enrolled

London City of London Police 2 Total 935 Metropolitan Police 162 Note: Total London 164 Information about completion rate is not held centrally. Community Relations: Islam North East Cleveland Police 0 Durham Constabulary 0 Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for the Humberside Police 1 Home Department what recent discussions she has had Northumbria Police 47 with the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government on the effect on the Muslim community of North Yorkshire Police 1 the Government’s counter-terrorism strategy. [277863] South Yorkshire Police 0 West Yorkshire Police 4 Mr. Coaker: My Department and the Department for Total North East 53 Communities and Local Government regularly discuss aspects of Contest including how to involve all communities in contributing to its success. Strong and empowered North West Cheshire Constabulary 14 communities are better equipped to effectively reject the Cumbria Constabulary 33 ideology of violent extremism, isolate apologists for Greater Manchester Police 35 terrorism and provide support to vulnerable individuals Lancashire Constabulary 17 and institutions. Merseyside Police 51 Total North West 150 Departmental Billing

Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State South East Hampshire Constabulary 3 for the Home Department how much (a) her Department Kent Police 32 and (b) its agencies paid in interest to suppliers under Surrey Police 2 the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act Sussex Police 7 1998 in the last three years for which figures are available. Thames Valley Police 4 [275200] Total South East 48 Mr. Woolas: The requested information for the Home Office is set out in the table. South West Avon and Somerset 64 Constabulary £ Devon and Cornwall 15 Constabulary 2006-07 373 Dorset Police 1 2007-08 910 Gloucestershire Constabulary 3 2008-09 2,850 Wiltshire Constabulary 2 The Identity and Passport Service and Criminal Records Total South West 85 Bureau have not made any payments under the Act, during the last three years. West Midlands Staffordshire Police 4 The Home Office has signed up to the CBI’s prompt Warwickshire Police 4 payment code and BS 7890, the British Standard for West Mercia Constabulary 57 prompt payment. West Midlands Police 97 Departmental Marketing Total West Midlands 162 Ann Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for the Wales Dyfed-Powys Police 2 Home Department how much has been spent by her Gwent Police 6 Department on advertising in weekly and regional North Wales Police 0 newspapers in the last five years. [277154] South Wales Police 8 Mr. Woolas: The amount spent in the last five years is Total Wales 16 shown in the table.

Other Police Service of Northern 86 £ Ireland Weekly regional Daily regional National Policing 17 Improvement Agency 2004-05 407,708 508,143 Total other 103 2005-06 232,532 339,130 2006-07 438,349 213,866 557W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 558W

individual’s behaviour becomes unmanageably obstructive, £ including use of ‘dirty protests’, and when there are last Weekly regional Daily regional minute documentation issues. 2007-08 267,772 34,639 Much progress has been made to minimise the impact 2008-09 433,518 497,250 of these issues which is demonstrated in the continued record performance of the agency in deporting or removing Departmental Press: Subscriptions foreign national prisoners, where nearly 5,400 were removed in 2008. As confirmed in the UK Border Mr. Hoban: To ask the Secretary of State for the Agency’s 2009-10 business plan, it will continue to aim Home Department pursuant to the answer of 31 March to deport or remove record numbers of foreign criminals 2009, Official Report, column 1079W, on departmental in the forthcoming year. press, whether the magazines, newspapers and other publications subscribed to by her Department were for Entry Clearances: EU Nationals delivery to the homes of (a) Ministers, (b) special advisers or (c) civil servants. [276179] Mr. Sarwar: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many citizens of other EU Mr. Woolas: In accordance with the current framework member states have been denied access to the UK on agreements in place the Home Office does not purchase the basis of previous criminal convictions in each of centrally any magazines, newspapers and other publications the last three years for which figures are available. for delivery to the home addresses of Ministers, special [270258] advisers or civil servants. All publications are delivered Mr. Woolas: From 2006-08, 929 EU Nationals were to the business addresses of the Department, its agencies refused entry at the UK border on grounds relating to and NDPBs. the public good. Departmental Work Experience The annual breakdown is as follows:

Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for the Number of EU Nationals refused Home Department how many work placements her entry to the UK Department offered to (a) school pupils, (b) university 2006 186 students and (c) graduates in each of the last five years. 2007 388 [274483] 2008 355 Mr. Woolas: The information requested on work This includes, but is not limited to those EU Nationals placements for school pupils is not recorded centrally in refused entry due to criminal convictions. This information the Home Office or its agencies. Work experience placements could be obtained only by the detailed examination of are authorised and organised locally by managers in individual records at disproportionate cost. business units. The data provided is based on locally-collated The Home Office provides around 30 placements management information, which may be subject to annually to graduates and undergraduates from a minority change and does not represent published national statistics. ethnic background and/or a registered disability, through the civil service fast stream summer placement schemes. Entry Clearances: Overseas Students They are paid an allowance within the executive officer range. Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department pursuant to the answer of 19 May Deportation 2009, Official Report, column 1293W,on entry clearances: overseas students, whether in circumstances where overseas Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the students pay accommodation and other fees in advance Home Department how many scheduled deportations greater than the required monthly minimum, they are were cancelled in 2008. [276564] required to demonstrate additional funds. [277884]

Mr. Woolas: Internal management information, which Mr. Woolas: Tier 4 applicants are required to demonstrate is unaudited data and is subject to change, indicates that they hold sufficient funds to cover both (1) their that there were around 1,000 occasions in 2008 where course fees for their first year of study and (2) to satisfy there was a need to reschedule removal directions for the maintenance test. those who were subject to deportation orders. These Where an applicant has paid money towards their data are centrally collated and are not broken down to course fees and/or accommodation before they submit account for the number of individuals they refer to or their application, this money can be offset from the the reasons as to why removal directions were rescheduled. total amount of funds the applicant must demonstrate, The chief executive of the UK Border Agency has provided that they submit the specified evidence. regularly written to the Home Affairs Select Committee Where a migrant has demonstrated that they have in order to provide robust and accurate information on paid their full course fees before they submit their the deportation of foreign national criminals. She has application, the applicant will not have to show any explained that there are several issues which may cause further funds for course fees. Equally should the moneys deportation to be rescheduled. For example, there may paid to the education provider for accommodation equal be occasions when it is administratively cheaper or or exceed the amount the applicant is required to easier to reschedule a flight or last minute representations demonstrate for maintenance, the applicant will not be and judicial reviews launched by legal representatives or required to show any further funds for maintenance. 559W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 560W

Where the payments made for either course fees or Mr. Woolas: It is difficult to isolate the effect of the accommodation fall short of the full amount required, change in the length of the probationary period from the applicant must demonstrate that they hold sufficient the effects of other factors, including the no-switching funds to cover the shortfall. provision which was made at the same time. An initial examination of the data shows a significant increase in Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the the percentage of applications refused after the rule Home Department how many staff of the UK Border change in 2003. The increase in the length of the Agency based in the UK are partly or wholly probationary period is likely to have been one significant responsible for examining student visa applications. factor in the increase. [271369] Immigration: Somalia Mr. Woolas: Applications from those outside the UK for student visas are considered by UKBA staff in visa Mr. Ancram: To ask the Secretary of State for the sections at the relevant post abroad. Home Department how many Somali nationals were The only exception is for visa applications made in granted entry into the UK in each of the last three Algeria which are currently processed in London. This years. [276256] operation has six full time staff based in the UK whose work load includes student applications. Mr. Woolas: The latest available statistics on the number of Somali nationals granted entry to the United Entry Clearances: Pakistan Kingdom are for 2005 to 2007 and are given in the table. Data for 2008 are scheduled for publication in August Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home 2009. Department how many (a) student visas and (b) tourist The information shown is based on landing card visas have been issued to Pakistani nationals in (i) the information and may include the same individuals more last 12 months, (ii) the last five years and (iii) the last 10 than once if they visited the United Kingdom on multiple years. [271818] occasions in the period. Statistics on passengers given leave to enter the United Mr. Woolas: The number of (a) student visas, and Kingdom by purpose of journey and nationality are (b) visit visas issued to Pakistani nationals in (i) 2008 published annually in table 2.3 of the Home Office and (ii) the five years 2004-08, is shown in the following publications “Control of Immigration: Statistics United table. Reliable data is not held for years prior to 2004. Kingdom” which are available in the Library of the House and from the Home Office Research, Development Calendar years and Statistics website at: 2008 2004-08 http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum- stats.html Student visas 9,663 58,783 Somali nationals given leave to enter the United Kingdom, 2005-07 Passengers admitted Number of journeys Visit visas Family 38,272 207,585 2005 5,610 Other 38,012 289,380 20061 3,540 20072,3 3,150 Human Trafficking 1 Due to some gaps in the data from ports, estimates have been used. 2 May understate due to some administrative records on non-EEA nationals being unavailable for statistical analysis. The explanatory Mr. Vara: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home notes and definitions in the “Control of Immigration: Statistics Department on how many days the Poppy project has United Kingdom 2007” gives further details. 3 Provisional. had beds which were not being used in the last 12 Note: months. [277691] Data rounded to three significant figures. Maria Eagle: I have been asked to reply. National DNA Database The Poppy project records vacancies on a weekly rather than daily basis. Information from the Poppy Mr. Hands: To ask the Secretary of State for the project shows that over the last 12 months there was at Home Department when the DNA record of the hon. least one unoccupied bed-space in 36 out of 52 weeks. Member for Hammersmith and Fulham will be removed The vacant periods could have ranged from one night to from the national DNA database. [265856] a week. Mr. Alan Campbell: The hon. Member does not have Immigration: Marriage a DNA profile held on the National DNA Database (NDNAD). Mr. Todd: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department pursuant to the answer of 10 February Oakington Immigration Removal Centre 2009, Official Report, column 1831W, on immigration: marriage, whether she has assessed the effect of the David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for the change made in 2003 in the probationary period on Home Department what plans she has for the future of those seeking settlement on the basis of marriage. Oakington Immigration Reception Centre; and if she [260523] will make a statement. [277277] 561W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 562W

Mr. Woolas: The current lease of Oakington from the Points of Entry Housing and Communities Agency, and the planning permission for its use, expire on 30 June 2010. Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for the We plan to continue to operate Oakington as an Home Department how many manned points of entry immigration removal centre until that date, beyond into the UK there are. [275796] which our operation is subject to the consent of the landlord and the local council. We are committed to Mr. Woolas: The UK Border Agency operates at 128 ensuring that the continued operation of Oakington ports in the UK and a further 10 at juxtaposed locations does not delay or otherwise impact upon the proposed in Belgium and Northern France. Northstowe development. UKBA maritime assets patrol coastal waters around Official Residences the UK and also work regularly in support of operations by other law enforcement agencies, to maintain a range of intelligence-led and risk-based controls on all routes Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for the of entry to UK. Home Department pursuant to the answer of 6 May 2009, Official Report, column 228W, on 62 South Police: Absenteeism Eaton Place, and of 23 February 2009, Official Report, column 160W, on official residences, if she will place in Mr. Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the the Library a copy of the selling agents’ advice which Home Department how many long-term absentee recommended that a home condition report not be police officers of each (a) rank and (b) sex there were purchased. [276961] in each police force area in each year since 1997. [273527] Mr. Woolas: The selling agent has advised that a condition report would be of little relevance as the Mr. Coaker: The available information shows the property is most likely of interest for re-development. number of long-term absentees as at 31 March each A redacted copy of the agent’s disposal report was year from 2003 to 2008. It is shown in the following placed in the Library on 26 November 2008. tables.

Number of police officers (full-time equivalents) on long-term absence1, by police force area in England and Wales, rank and gender, as at 31 March: 2003-082 31 March 2003 Male Female Chief Chief Chief Chief ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const. ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const.

Avon and 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—233— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—11 Somerset Bedfordshire 0000032000000013 Cambridgeshire 0000142000000211 Cheshire 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—2103— 3— 3— 3— 3—117 Cleveland000011 70000025 Cumbria 0001052500000014 Derbyshire0002142800001016 Devon and 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—7393— 3— 3— 3—1322 Cornwall Dorset 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—33— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—3 Durham0000121600000211 Essex 3— 3— 3— 3—25303— 3— 3—13—323 Gloucestershire 101022153— 3— 3— 3— 3—34 Greater 0003926224000147143 Manchester Gwent 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—53— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—1 Hampshire 00013154900001333 Hertfordshire0011021800010317 Humberside 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—2 83— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—20 Kent 3— 3— 3—1510943— 3— 3—11432 Lancashire 3— 3— 3—1210243— 3— 3— 3—2645 Leicestershire0000192900000227 Lincolnshire 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—3183— 3— 3— 3— 3—016 London, City 010021140001005 of Merseyside 001131111700013439 Metropolitan 0007331287470000425332 Police Norfolk000013100000039 Northamptonshire 0001101200000010 Northumbria 3— 3—13—35663— 3—13— 3—652 North Wales 3— 3— 3—1517713— 3— 3— 3— 3—228 563W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 564W

Number of police officers (full-time equivalents) on long-term absence1, by police force area in England and Wales, rank and gender, as at 31 March: 2003-082 31 March 2003 Male Female Chief Chief Chief Chief ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const. ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const.

North 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—8 Yorkshire South Wales 0001221900000316 South 3— 3—13— 3—2 83— 3— 3— 3— 3—110 Yorkshire Staffordshire0000158400000574 Suffolk 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—2153— 3— 3— 3—13—10 Surrey0117141114700000129234 Thames Valley 00001126000101252 Warwickshire 000001120010013 West Mercia 3— 3— 3—126313— 3— 3— 3—1212 West 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— Midlands West 3— 3— 3—1110603— 3— 3— 3—1119 Yorkshire Wiltshire 3— 3—13—14173— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—7

31 March 2004 Male Female Chief Chief Chief Chief ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const. ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const.

Avon and 000032617000011071 Somerset Bedfordshire 0000221900000018 Cambridgeshire 0000042800000416 Cheshire 000000800000320 Cleveland000010100000014 Cumbria 0001032800010314 Derbyshire0002152200000023 Devon and 0001174700001525 Cornwall Dorset00001125500001433 Durham000000700000011 Dyfed-Powys 3—13— 3— 3—153— 3— 3— 3— 3—23— Essex 0000111000000014 Gloucestershire 0000141500001310 Greater 000210211720001516107 Manchester Gwent0000143200000114 Hampshire 000031372000011248 Hertfordshire1000012400002336 Humberside 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—4133— 3— 3— 3— 3—120 Kent 00001105700000545 Lancashire 0000101900000122 Leicestershire0001073000000219 Lincolnshire 0011091400000216 London, City 000000100000024 of Merseyside 0011146400002423 Metropolitan 010510644010002524284 Police Norfolk0001141700010316 Northamptonshire 0000162000000029 Northumbria 00002138000000536 North Wales 2 3— 3— 4 13 49 252 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— 10 129 North 3— 3— 3— 3—13—13— 3— 3— 3— 3—15 Yorkshire Nottinghamshire 00002249900101341 South Wales 0000277200000344 South 0000272300000512 Yorkshire Staffordshire0000172900000529 Suffolk 3— 3— 3— 3—1193— 3— 3— 3— 3— 3—14 Surrey0000183000000122 565W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 566W

31 March 2004 Male Female Chief Chief Chief Chief ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const. ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const.

Sussex0000021500011527 Thames Valley 00002126200102458 Warwickshire 000014120000017 WestMercia00001135700000234 West Midlands 00000000000011110

WestYorkshire0000366100101441

Wiltshire 000000600000010

31 March 2005 Male Female Chief Chief Chief Chief ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const. ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const.

Avon and 0000011400000020 Somerset Bedfordshire 0000151500001124 Cambridgeshire 0100031800001319 Cheshire 0000284600003129 Cleveland000006150000015 Cumbria 0000231900001315 Derbyshire0002112200000114 Devon and 00001124000002634 Cornwall Dorset0002172700000323 Durham0100063700000020 Dyfed-Powys00000120000015 Essex 0001221500010225 Gloucestershire 0000241500001015 Greater 00026191870000612131 Manchester Gwent000011200000025 Hampshire 000021977000001554 Hertfordshire0000012600003236 Humberside 000003410000009 Kent 0000123300020240 Lancashire 0000144500002345 Leicestershire00105125400000033 Lincolnshire 000116500000210 London, City 00000190000008 of Merseyside 0010197200010033 Metropolitan 011311663730002732291 Police Norfolk0001073600010118 Northamptonshire 0000131300000218 Northumbria 0000285800000454 North 000001500000111 Yorkshire Nottinghamshire 00005107200000828 South Wales 0010186400000240 South 0000573900000425 Yorkshire Staffordshire0000162300001328 Suffolk0000121300000312 Surrey0000352900002231 Sussex0100584400014736 Thames Valley 00104117100102268 Warwickshire 0000111700000011 WestMercia0000243000000216 West Midlands 0000031300002674 WestYorkshire01003912000000866 Wiltshire 0000131300000011 567W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 568W

31 March 2006 Male Female Chief Chief Chief Chief ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const. ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const.

Avon and 0000113323100025588 Somerset Bedfordshire 0000021900000125 Cambridgeshire 0000311100010328 Cheshire 00001124200002338 Cleveland0000111300000018 Cumbria 0000452800001431 Derbyshire0001342700001224 Devon and 0000175400001447 Cornwall Dorset0002152800001616 Durham0000133200001014 Dyfed-Powys00000340000109 Essex 0000211200010819 Gloucestershire 0000141800001213 Greater 00016111230001713113 Manchester Gwent001004260000016 Hampshire 0000524127000031678 Hertfordshire0000002500001333 Humberside 00000020000007 Kent 0001543600001645 Lancashire 00002115300002642 Leicestershire0010333400002124 Lincolnshire 0000072200000219 London, City 00001280000017 of Merseyside 0001186700100231 Metropolitan 003515693830002835303 Police Norfolk0001031700112117 Northamptonshire 0001231700000115 Northumbria 000151510500000751 NorthWales00000000000000 North 000001200001015 Yorkshire Nottinghamshire 0000434100000734 South Wales 00014216700011754 South 0000142000002320 Yorkshire Staffordshire0000251800001427 Suffolk000001800001213 Surrey0000031700002222 Sussex0012454100013333 Thames Valley 0000053800113345 Warwickshire 0000211000000012 WestMercia0110274100010530 West Midlands 00000315000031262 WestYorkshire0001377200000453 Wiltshire 0000121100000019

31 March 2007 Male Female Chief Chief Chief Chief ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const. ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const.

Avon and 0000044600001232 Somerset Bedfordshire 0001101500001112 Cambridgeshire 0000131000000119 Cheshire 0000052900003326 Cleveland00000000000000 Cumbria 0000222800000129 569W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 570W

31 March 2007 Male Female Chief Chief Chief Chief ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const. ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const.

Derbyshire0000392800000117 Devon and 0002365700000552 Cornwall Dorset0001152100001521 Durham0000052300002117 Dyfed-Powys0000021100000016 Essex 0000193400010836 Gloucestershire 0000051700001417 Greater 0102410104000129117 Manchester Gwent0000171600000111 Hampshire 000021274000001268 Hertfordshire0000122900000539 Humberside 000001500000131 Kent 0100214100002646 Lancashire 0001274200001751 Leicestershire0000232900000231 Lincolnshire 0000181500000128 London, City 000000800000110 of Merseyside 01003106400010436 Metropolitan 004313703600000234330 Police Norfolk1000541300000425 Northamptonshire 00001190000159 Northumbria 00007159900010630 NorthWales00001220000004 North 0000022300000125 Yorkshire Nottinghamshire 0000163400001635 South Wales 00013134800002752 South 000021900000512 Yorkshire Staffordshire0000251400000113 Suffolk0000111100001319 Surrey0013163400001120 Sussex00132113900001436 Thames Valley 0010355600020857 Warwickshire 000003120000007 WestMercia01003854000011045 West Midlands 0000419840001212120 WestYorkshire0000095600001462 Wiltshire 0000241600001224

31 March 2008 Male Female Chief Chief Chief Chief ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const. ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const.

Avon and 0101286000000559 Somerset Bedfordshire 0001041800001129 Cambridgeshire 0000132600002031 Cheshire 0000153200014433 Cleveland000001600000022 Cumbria 0001334000000327 Derbyshire0000221800000024 Devon and 00002105300000731 Cornwall Dorset00013104300001417 Durham0000032300000519 Dyfed-Powys0000031300000217 571W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 572W

31 March 2008 Male Female Chief Chief Chief Chief ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const. ACPO Supt. Supt. Insp. Insp. Sgt. Const.

Essex 0000142900011741 Gloucestershire 0000001100000018 Greater 00004121080000116115 Manchester Gwent0000112400001111 Hampshire 001141179010041571 Hertfordshire0000343000000129 Humberside 0000231700010026 Kent 0100333600000858 Lancashire 0000375300000348 Leicestershire0100341900001034 Lincolnshire 0010372400100322 London, City 001002150000038 of Merseyside 0000396700000344 Metropolitan 005123110871200011149453 Police Norfolk0001063400012216 Northamptonshire 0001241600001223 Northumbria 0001285401000438 NorthWales000022400000111 North 0000151500000326 Yorkshire Nottinghamshire 0000252900001434 South Wales 0000366200110863 South 0000111400000116 Yorkshire Staffordshire0011042900000226 Suffolk0000021300000424 Surrey0004273700000410 Sussex0000172400003937 Thames Valley 00002838000121272 Warwickshire 0000342800000028 WestMercia00003115000011761 West Midlands 00015990000137111 WestYorkshire0001387500001375 Wiltshire 0000031400002114 1 Long-term absences are only those absences that have lasted for more than 28 days. They include career breaks, compassionate leave, maternity/paternity leave, special leave, study leave, suspension and sick leave. 2 These data are provisional and are unaudited by police forces. 3 Data not provided. Key: Chief Supt. = Chief Superintendent Supt. = Superintendent Chief Insp. = Chief Inspector Insp. = Inspector Sgt. = Sergeant Const. = Constable

Police: Bureaucracy Police: Official Visits Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home the Home Department how many police stations she Department pursuant to the answer of 18 May 2009, has visited on official business in the last 12 months. Official Report, column 1204, what the evidential basis [247690] was for her statement that the hon. Member for Wellingborough was wrong about time police officers Mr. Coaker: My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary spend on the beat in Northamptonshire; and if she will regularly goes out to visit front line police officers and make a statement. [277469] Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs), both in police stations and as part of neighbourhood policing Mr. Coaker [holding answer 1 June 2009]: The hon. visits. Member for Wellingborough stated that in his county For example, in February this year my right hon. the amount of time spent on the beat was down to 10 Friend visited a police station in Southampton, and has per cent. In fact, the amount of time officers in his met front line police officers and PSCOs in their county spend patrolling and involved in no other activity communities on many occasions in the last 12 months, is 10 per cent; the total amount of time they spend on including undertaking visits to Basildon, West Yorkshire, the beat will be considerably greater than this. Luton, Northampton, South Yorkshire and Cardiff. 573W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 574W

Proof of Identity: Fraud The number of persons aged 10 to 17 years proceeded against at magistrates courts for offences relating to certain sections of the Fraud Act 2006, Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, and the Identity Cards Act 2006, in West Mercia Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for the and West Midlands Police Force Area, 20071,2,3 Home Department how many people under 18 years West West old have been prosecuted for fraud for possessing a Mercia midlands police police faked or doctored form of identification in (a) Statute Offence description force area force area Herefordshire, (b) the West Mercia Constabulary area and (c) the West Midlands in the latest period for Identity Cards Act With intent make/ —— 2006 s.25(3)(4)(6) possess/have under which figures are available; and if she will make a your control statement. [277693] apparatus/article/ material designed/ adapted for making Mr. Alan Campbell: Information provided by the false ID documents. Ministry of Justice on the number of persons aged 10 to Identity Cards Act Possess/control a false/ —— 17 years proceeded against at magistrates courts, for 2006 s.25(5)(7) improperly obtained offences contrary to the Fraud Act 2006, Forgery and ID card or which relates to another or Counterfeiting Act 1981, and the Identity Cards Act apparatus etc for 2006, in relation to possession of faked or doctored making ID form of identification in West Mercia and west midlands documents. police force area for 2007 can be viewed in the following 1 These data are on the principal offence basis. 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and table. complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted It is not possible to further break down data to from large administrative data systems generated by police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and county level (i.e. Herefordshire), as Herefordshire forms their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. part of West Mercia police force area, data for West 3 Section 25 of the Identity Cards Act, commenced on 7 June 2006. Mercia police force area has thus been provided in lieu. Source: Evidence and Analysis Unit—Office for Criminal Justice Reform, Ministry of Section 25 of the Identity Cards Act, commenced on Justice 7 June 2006. Serious Organised Crime Agency: Manpower These data are on the principal offence basis. The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the persons for whom these offences were the principal Home Department how many staff there were in the offence for which they were dealt with. When a defendant (a) Intervention Directorate, (b) Enforcement Directorate, has been found guilty of two or more offences, the (c) Corporate Services Directorate and (d) Intelligence offence selected is the one for which the heaviest penalty Directorate of the Serious and Organised Crime Agency is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two on the latest date for which figures are available. or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for [274002] which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. Court proceedings data for 2008 will be available in Mr. Alan Campbell: As of 30 April, the Serious the autumn of 2009. Organised Crime Agency had 3,989 full-time equivalent The number of persons aged 10 to 17 years proceeded against at magistrates staff. These were as follows: courts for offences relating to certain sections of the Fraud Act 2006, Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, and the Identity Cards Act 2006, in West Mercia Full-time equivalent staff and West Midlands Police Force Area, 20071,2,3 West West (a) Intervention Directorate 934 Mercia midlands (b) Enforcement Directorate 1,212 police police Statute Offence description force area force area (c) Corporate Services Directorate 562 (d) Intelligence Directorate 1,094 Fraud Act 2006 Dishonestly makes a 49 (e) Legal, Corporate Assurance and 87 s.1(2a)(3)(4), 2(la)(b) false representation to Executive Co-ordination make a gain for himself or another or to cause loss to In addition, the Child Exploitation and On-line another or to expose Protection centre has 100 full-time equivalent SOCA another to a risk. funded staff (including secondees in and those on SOCA Fraud Act 2006 s.6 Possession etc. of 12 articles for use in contracts). frauds. Fraud Act 2006 s.7 Make, adapt, supply —— Sexual Offences: Registration or offer to supply any article knowing that it is designed or adapted James Brokenshire: To ask the Secretary of State for for use in the course of the Home Department how many sex offenders are (a) or in connection with required to register with the police and (b) registered fraud, or intending it to be used to commit with the police; and how many sex offenders have or facilitate fraud. breached their registration requirements in the last 12 Forgery and Using a false ——months. [274075] Counterfeiting Act instrument etc in 1981 secs 3, 4 respect of scheduled drug. Mr. Alan Campbell: Data on the number of registered Identity Cards Act With intent knowingly —2sexual offenders in England and Wales is available in 2006 s.25(l)(2)(6) possess false/ the annual published multi agency public protection improperly obtained/ arrangements (MAPPA) reports: another’s ID document. http://www.probation.justice.gov.uk/output/page30.asp 575W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 576W

Each police force monitors all registered sex offenders special constable worked in each police force area in in their area and knows which of these offenders is each year since 1997. [273528] currently compliant with the notification requirements. Offenders in breach of their notification requirements Mr. Coaker: The available data are given in the tables. have committed a criminal offence and are liable to a The Government have increased the funding for special maximum penalty of five years’ imprisonment. constables to ensure that there will be an extra 6,000 officers by 2011. This information is not complete as some forces have Special Constables: Working Hours not provided data, and the information was not collected before 2002-03. Mr. Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the In order to reduce bureaucracy still further, it will no Home Department how many hours on average a longer be collected by the Home Office in the future.

Hours worked by special constables1 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08

Avon and Somerset 48,578 61,485 n/a 77,974 96,021 80,981 Bedfordshire 17,888 25,000 42,107 46,972 57,393 45,000 Cambridgeshire n/a n/a n/a 37,451 44,799 46,545 Cheshire 28,588 22,268 30,421 52,516 66,045 59,683 Cleveland 11,950 13,028 n/a n/a n/a n/a Cumbria 13,816 9,356 22,231 32,694 32,061 30,462 Derbyshire n/a n/a n/a 59,758 50,639 43,227 Devon and Cornwall 79,620 68,484 44,212 n/a n/a n/a Dorset 38,349 35,307 35,960 45,658 60,991 54,054 Durham n/a n/a n/a 18,887 20,914 n/a Dyfed-Powys 5,251 5,033 4,276 14,075 18,349 14,136 Essex 82,940 83,638 95,593 118,175 119,018 145,477 Gloucestershire 20,800 12,455 17,101 20,484 18,741 14,228 Greater Manchester n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Gwent 19,451 15,242 25,623 12,606 14,028 12,222 Hampshire 78,036 81,354 80,677 90,300 103,276 83,864 Hertfordshire 54,853 67,258 74,021 74,437 81,437 89,010 Humberside 27,499 n/a n/a 63,624 82,469 80,095 Kent 98,680 83,962 90,244 84,206 81,018 82,600 Lancashire n/a n/a 72,592 82,866 88,300 n/a Leicestershire 16,589 18,512 n/a 36,342 48,085 46,865 Lincolnshire 24,336 26,692 26,843 25,823 25,616 19,056 London, City of 7,954 10,312 9,719 8,615 6,629 11,508 Merseyside 80,723 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Metropolitan Police n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Norfolk 59,208 32,879 21,102 59,500 58,000 64,140 Northamptonshire 38,304 36,651 59,691 52,167 42,496 25,509 Northumbria 26,842 23,269 23,150 21,723 8,287 5,524 North Wales n/a n/a n/a 14,568 17,362 26,316 North Yorkshire n/a n/a n/a 26,892 30,912 29,612 Nottinghamshire n/a n/a n/a 29,706 50,455 53,196 South Wales 29,346 54,870 n/a 53,629 35,583 27,720 South Yorkshire 34,005 27,145 28,617 52,383 48,014 53,837 Staffordshire n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 77,168 Suffolk 53,487 50,681 n/a 37,437 59,551 64,524 Surrey n/a n/a 47,245 66,867 70,290 n/a Sussex n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 55,148 Thames Valley 58,690 62,108 n/a 52,358 n/a n/a Warwickshire 50,208 45,107 51,227 49,629 34,192 25,523 West Mercia 51,985 41,000 42,128 n/a n/a 44,588 West Midlands n/a n/a n/a 176,630 158,350 131,127 West Yorkshire 69,517 62,016 60,641 64,395 63,731 55,374 Wiltshire 29,664 33,739 43,480 39,619 29,815 n/a n/a = Data unavailable. 1 The data are unvalidated and therefore provided on a provisional basis only Special constable1 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08

Avon and Somerset 345 305 396 408 404 444 Bedfordshire 98 146 209 181 166 142 Cambridgeshire 189 193 199 185 202 210 Cheshire 161 173 192 225 291 282 577W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 578W

Special constable1 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08

Cleveland 102 85 66 138 179 195 Cumbria 94 77 126 152 166 142 Derbyshire 249 301 369 429 506 445 Devon and Cornwall 645 602 582 572 549 505 Dorset 214 210 230 264 295 295 Durham 94 81 91 109 117 126 Dyfed-Powys 152 151 167 194 190 169 Essex 371 349 363 439 451 559 Gloucestershire 157 155 146 157 133 143 Greater Manchester 340 345 380 424 403 350 Gwent 130 136 144 137 145 204 Hampshire 373 346 369 388 439 457 Hertfordshire 193 206 226 232 268 266 Humberside 157 209 328 330 344 344 Kent 286 341 338 306 293 349 Lancashire 351 336 319 366 379 393 Leicestershire 149 159 181 168 178 202 Lincolnshire 139 156 179 166 171 165 London, City of 42 54 52 70 74 72 Merseyside 503 371 259 345 392 456 Metropolitan Police 692 742 697 1,221 1,741 2,510 Norfolk 239 241 253 262 271 271 Northamptonshire 189 197 242 237 214 180 Northumbria 221 169 240 198 191 123 North Wales 133 124 124 136 164 160 North Yorkshire 177 160 173 189 184 178 Nottinghamshire 261 295 333 361 382 378 South Wales 173 218 198 281 301 334 South Yorkshire 204 200 204 270 298 264 Staffordshire 391 376 409 406 380 371 Suffolk 275 266 267 293 305 360 Surrey 212 255 289 280 275 278 Sussex 303 181 200 197 204 199 Thames Valley 369 341 375 327 286 246 Warwickshire 190 169 190 211 200 208 West Mercia 309 280 263 284 274 251 West Midlands 637 715 959 1,021 937 769 West Yorkshire 374 403 417 440 494 403 Wiltshire 154 169 174 180 185 149 1 Total strength is based on headcount figures. Average hours worked1 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08

Avon and Somerset 141 202 n/a 191 238 182 Bedfordshire 183 171 201 260 346 317 Cambridgeshire n/a n/a n/a 202 222 222 Cheshire 178 129 158 233 227 212 Cleveland 117 153 n/a n/a n/a n/a Cumbria 147 122 176 215 193 215 Derbyshire n/a n/a n/a 139 100 97 Devon and Cornwall 123 114 76 n/a n/a n/a Dorset 179 168 156 173 207 183 Durham n/a n/a n/a 173 179 n/a Dyfed-Powys 35 33 26 73 97 84 Essex 224 240 263 269 264 260 Gloucestershire 132 80 117 130 141 99 Greater Manchester n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Gwent 150 112 178 92 97 60 Hampshire 209 235 219 233 235 184 Hertfordshire 284 326 328 321 304 335 Humberside 175 n/a n/a 193 240 233 Kent 345 246 267 275 277 237 Lancashire n/a n/a 228 226 233 n/a Leicestershire 111 116 n/a 216 270 232 Lincolnshire 175 171 150 156 150 115 579W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 580W

Average hours worked1 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08

London, City of 189 191 187 123 90 160 Merseyside 160 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Metropolitan Police n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Norfolk 248 136 83 227 214 237 Northamptonshire 203 186 247 220 199 142 Northumbria 121 138 96 110 43 45 North Wales n/a n/a n/a 107 106 164 North Yorkshire n/a n/a n/a 142 168 166 Nottinghamshire n/a n/a n/a 82 132 141 South Wales 170 252 n/a 191 118 83 South Yorkshire 167 136 140 194 161 204 Staffordshire n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 208 Suffolk 194 191 n/a 128 195 179 Surrey n/a n/a 163 239 256 n/a Sussex n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 277 Thames Valley 159 182 n/a 160 n/a n/a Warwickshire 264 267 270 235 171 123 West Mercia 168 146 160 n/a n/a 178 West Midlands n/a n/a n/a 173 169 171 West Yorkshire 186 154 145 146 129 137 Wiltshire 193 200 250 220 161 n/a n/a = Data unavailable 1 Total strength is based on headcount figures.

UK Border Agency: Consultants in an increasingly competitive labour market. Many will continue their learning in the workplace through an Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the apprenticeship or work based learning programme. Home Department how much the UK Border Agency All 16 and 17-year-olds will be offered a suitable spent on external consultants in 2008. [263207] place in education or training under the September Guarantee. The additional investment announced in Mr. Woolas: UK Border Agency spent £27.2 million Budget 2009, together with the plans that we recently on external consultants during financial year 2007-08. announced to make available an additional 17,500 apprenticeship places for 16 to 18-year-olds, mean that Visas: Overseas Students we are now investing over £6.8 billion in 16-18 education and training, providing a record level of more than Mike Penning: To ask the Secretary of State for the 1,550,000 learning places. Schools, colleges and Connexions Home Department what procedures are applied by the services will give young people across Greater Manchester UK Border Agency to the grant of student visas to the advice and support they need to find a suitable foreign medical students who require more than four opportunity in education, employment or training. years to complete their training. [258633]

Mr. Woolas: Under the tier 4 immigration rules, a Higher Education student such as a medical student, following a course of study at or above degree level for longer than 12 months, Mr. Willetts: To ask the Secretary of State for Innovation, and who meets all of the requirements of the immigration Universities and Skills when he expects the Forward rules, will be granted leave to cover the full duration of Framework on Higher Education to be published. their course, plus an additional period of four months. [277848]

Mr. Lammy: We expect to publish our Framework INNOVATION, UNIVERSITIES AND SKILLS for the future of Higher Education this summer. Employment: Young People Higher Education: Admissions Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Innovation, Universities and Skills what steps his Mr. Willetts: To ask the Secretary of State for Department is taking to increase the number of people Innovation, Universities and Skills how many of those under 18 years old in employment in (a) Tameside, (b) who applied to study full-time at a higher education Stockport and (c) Greater Manchester. [277500] institution for a first degree came from a household with gross annual income of (a) £25,000 or under, (b) Beverley Hughes: I have been asked to reply. between £25,001 and £50,020 and (c) higher than We are determined to ensure that as many young £50,020 in 2009-10. [277849] people as possible continue their learning beyond the age of 16 to get the qualifications and experience they Mr. Lammy: Complete information on household need to make a successful transition into employment incomes of applicants is not available centrally. 581W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 582W

Higher Education: Part-time Education business to ING Direct. The Government also committed to paying out in full FSCS eligible depositors whose Mr. Willetts: To ask the Secretary of State for Innovation, accounts were not transferred. The remainders of Heritage’s Universities and Skills how many part-time first degree and KSF’s businesses were subsequently placed into entrants there have been at (a) the Open University and administration following due legal process. (b) other higher education institutions in each year On 8 October, the FSA announced that the UK-based since 2002-03. [277846] branch of Landsbanki was in default for the purposes of the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS). Mr. Lammy: The latest available information is shown To maintain financial stability and protect retail depositors, in the table. Figures for the Open University cannot the Chancellor announced that all retail depositors with split undergraduate level of study into first degree and the Icesave brand of the branch would receive their other undergraduate until the 2003/04 academic year, money in full. therefore figures for the 2002/03 academic year have not been provided. The Open University coded their entrant numbers incorrectly in the 2004/05 academic year, therefore Business: Government Assistance these have not been provided. Part-time first degree entrants1 by higher education institution—UK Mr. Fallon: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer higher education institutions academic years 2003/04 to 2007/08 what terms and conditions are imposed upon those Academic year Open University All other UK HEIs accepting assistance under the Enterprise Finance 2003/04 25,555 38,905 Guarantee Scheme; and if he will arrange for these 2004/05 n/a 36,715 terms and conditions to be published on the Business 2005/06 31,640 37,755 Link website. [266163] 2006/07 32,095 34,185 2007/08 31,630 33,725 Ian Pearson [holding answer 24 March 2009]: Ihave 1 Covers entrants of all domiciles. been asked to reply. n/a = not available. The OU incorrectly coded entrants in the 2004/05 Information on the Enterprise Finance Guarantee academic year. including the eligibility criteria and the premium rate, Note: Figures are based on a HESA standard registration population and together with other help for businesses under the Real have been rounded to the nearest five. Help package are already published on the Businesslink.gov Source: website. Specific terms and conditions are a matter for Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) each participating lender in discussion with each borrower and as such are confidential to those parties.

TREASURY Government Departments: Hotels Bank Services: Post Offices John Mann: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Kate Hoey: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will instruct the Office of Government Commerce how the Financial Services Authority regulates Bank of to review its policy of using only certain travel companies Ireland products offered via Post Office Ltd.; and if he to procure business-use hotel accommodation. [277915] will make a statement. [273084]

Ian Pearson: The Bank of Ireland operates as a Angela Eagle: Buying Solutions manage two framework branch in the UK and is therefore regulated by the Irish agreements awarded to a total of six travel management Financial Regulator. companies (TMC’s) following competitive tender action in accordance with EU procurement legislation. Banks: Iceland Public sector customers are not obliged to use these TMC’s if they have alternative EU compliance Mr. Steen: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer arrangements. what role (a) the Financial Services Authority and (b) his Department has had in the transfer of depositors’ money from Icelandic banks; what procedures have Lighthouse Group: Network Data been followed; and what safeguards there are for depositors’ money. [274690] Mr. Andrew Turner: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what representations from members of Ian Pearson [holding answer 13 May 2009]: Heritable the public he has received on the role of HBOS in the and Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander (KSF) are proposed purchase by Lighthouse Group of Network UK-based banking subsidiaries of the two Icelandic Data Ltd. [274632] banks Landsbanki and Kaupthing. On 7 and 8 October 2008 respectively, the FSA concluded that Heritable and KSF no longer met their threshold conditions, and Ian Pearson: The Chancellor receives a wide range of were in default for the purposes of the Financial Services representations on issues relating to banks in receipt of Compensation Scheme (FSCS). The Treasury, using public funds. powers under the Banking (Special Provisions) Act As was the case with previous Administrations, it is 2008, transferred certain accounts of Heritable primarily not the Government’s practice to provide details of all used by retail depositors and KSF’s Edge retail deposit such representations. 583W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 584W

COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Building Regulations

Audit Commission: Official Hospitality Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government when she expects to launch the consultation on proposed changes to Part John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for L of the Building Regulations; and if she will make a Communities and Local Government how much the statement. [277864] Audit Commission has spent on hotel accommodation for officials in (a) the last 12 months and (b) each of Mr. Iain Wright: The Department expects to publish the last three years. [277891] a consultation document on proposed changes to parts L (Conservation of Fuel and Power) and F (Means of Mr. Khan: This is an operational matter for the Audit Ventilation) of the Building Regulations shortly. Commission, and I will ask the chief executive of the Audit Commission to write to the hon. Member direct. Council Tax Letter from Steve Bundred, dated 3 June 2009: Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me for reply. Communities and Local Government what the estimated Spend on hotel accommodation in the last four years was as cost to her Department and local authorities of council below: tax rebilling was in (a) 2007-08, (b) 2008-09 and (c) 2009-10. [277242] £

2008-09 1,225,108 John Healey: There is no cost to the Department as a 2007-08 1,128,668 result of council tax rebilling. 2006-07 1,107,810 The Department does not provide estimates of rebilling 2005-06 568,431 costs to local authorities; The figures include costs for dinner, bed and breakfast. actual costs for previous years were as follows: In 2006 the Audit Commission introduced a new contractual 2007-08: £0 arrangement for hotel accommodation with a booking agent. 2008-09: £1.22 per household for Lincolnshire police authority.1 Prior to the new contract, hotel accommodation was booked 1 Based on figures provided by the authority. directly with a wide range of hotels across the UK. Therefore the figure shown for 2005/06 only represents the expenditure with our Council Tax: Debt Collection contracted supplier. The Audit Commission employs approximately 2,000 staff. Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Due to the nature of our work and the geographical spread of our Communities and Local Government what guidance client base, overnight accommodation is a business requirement. her Department has provided to local authorities on the A copy of this letter will be placed in Hansard. use of bailiffs to collect council tax; and what assessment she has made of the implications for local authorities’ John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for use of bailiffs of her Department’s plans to allow Communities and Local Government for what reasons councils to transfer council tax debts from magistrates the Audit Commission’s travel policy states that officials to county courts. [277027] requiring hotel accommodation should use 3 or 4 star hotels. [277892] John Healey: Communities and Local Government’s predecessor Department the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister jointly published with the Government Operational Mr. Khan: This is an operational matter for the Audit Research Service a Council Tax Collection Good Practice Commission, and I will ask the chief executive of the Report in 2004. The report looks at ways of sharing Audit Commission to write to the hon. Member direct. good practice among practitioners, in order to promote Letter from Steve Bundred, dated 3 June 2009: continuous improvement in service delivery and collection. Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me for reply. Annex D of the report covers the use of bailiffs. Up to May 2009, the policy stated a minimum 3 star standard The report is published on Communities and Local should be used, to ensure that room service was available, as this Government website at: was felt to be important for the security of our staff working away www.local.communities.gov.uk/finance/ctax/goodprac.pdf from home. The Audit Commission changed its policy on hotel accommodation in May 2009. The new policy removed the minimum I am working with the Ministry of Justice to look at 3 star standard and replaced this with a maximum overnight rate new ways to collect and enforce council tax, in particular depending upon the location of the hotel: by allowing councils to transfer council tax debts from magistrates to county courts. £ Council Tax: Surrey London, SW1 160.00 Bristol and London (excluding 130.00 Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for SW1) Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Regions (excluding Bristol and 115.00 London) written ministerial statement of 13 May 2009, Official Report, columns 51-52WS, on local government, what The maximum overnight rates include bed, breakfast and a £25 estimate she has made of the rate of Band D council limit for an evening meal. tax to be charged in each billing authority in Surrey in A copy of this letter will be placed in Hansard. 2009-10 following the capping and rebilling of Surrey 585W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 586W

Police Authority; and what estimate she has made of Government Office Network: Finance the change in the average Band D council tax bill in England in 2009-10 following the re-billing. [277018] Julia Goldsworthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what the budget John Healey: Subject to the House of Commons is of the (a) Government Office Network, (b) Regions approving an order to cap Surrey police authority, the and Communities Group and (c) Communities Group band D council tax charged by the police authority to for (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11 and (iii) 2011-12. [277881] each billing authority in Surrey in 2009-10 will be a maximum of £193.92. There would be no change to the Mr. Khan: The net budgets for 2009-10 and 2010-11 2009-10 average band D council tax level in England as are as follows: published by my Department on 26 March. £000 2009/10 2010/11

Empty Property Government offices—administration 106,624 101,329 Government Offices—resource 0 0 Mr. Vara: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities Government Offices—capital 2,860 2,860 and Local Government what proportion of domestic properties in (a) North West Cambridgeshire, (b) Regions & Communities Group— 2,337 — Cambridgeshire, (c) the East of England and (d) England administration Regions & Communities Group— 19,100 20,100 were vacant in each of the last five years. [277776] resource Regions & Communities Group— 70,000 70,000 Mr. Iain Wright: The information requested is not capital held centrally for North-West Cambridgeshire. Figures are available at local authority district level. Communities Group—administration 19,035 — Communities Group—resource 325,815 296,528 The following table shows the proportion of vacant Communities Group—capital 143,696 180,361 properties in Cambridgeshire, the east of England and England in each of the last five years. Group administration budgets for 2010-11 are subject Total vacant dwellings as a percentage of total dwelling stock to decision by the Department’s board as part of the Percentage Department’s internal business planning process. As at: CSR07 allocated budgets for the period to 2010-11. 1 10 9 8 6 Budgets beyond 2010-11 have yet to be agreed with the November October October October October Region 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Treasury.

Cambridge 3.1 2.9 2.8 3.1 2.9 Home Information Packs East 3.2 2.4 2.7 2.7 3.1 Cambridgeshire Julia Goldsworthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Fenland 3.5 2.7 2.6 2.9 3.1 Communities and Local Government what estimate Huntingdonshire 2.1 2.5 2.4 2.4 2.7 she has made of her Department’s expenditure on Peterborough 2.5 2.5 2.9 2.9 3.3 administration of its policy on home information UA packs in (a) 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 and (c) 2011-12. South 3.1 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.7 Cambridgeshire [277869] Cambridgeshire 2.8 2.6 2.7 2.8 3.0 East of 2.8 2.8 2.8 2.8 3.0 Margaret Beckett: I refer the hon. Member to my England reply given on 6 November 2008, Official Report, column England 3.3 3.3 3.4 3.4 3.5 723W. Programme resources for 2011-12 have not yet Source: been allocated. Council Taxbase and Council Taxbase Supplementary (CTB1 and CTB1S) returns from local authorities. Housing: Construction

Fire Services: Pensions Dr. Kumar: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what steps she plans to take to ensure that the planned number of new homes are built John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for during the next 12 months. [276632] Communities and Local Government what actuarial assumptions are to be used in the actuarial valuations Mr. Iain Wright: The Housing Green Paper, “Homes of the (a) Firefighters Pension Scheme and (b) New for the Future: more affordable, more sustainable”, Firefighters Pension Scheme. [277914] published in July 2007, set out the Government’s ambition to increase housing supply, in order to bring greater John Healey: The Government Actuary is carrying stability and affordability to the housing market. out an actuarial valuation of the firefighters’ pension In the past year, a range of measures have been arrangements in England. The report will set out the announced to support the construction industry and assumptions and other factors considered before making boost housing supply. These measures included: bringing recommendations about both schemes. When the report forward £550 million of funding from 2010-11 to maintain is published later this year, a copy will be placed in the the supply of new social rented dwellings; £400 million Library. to invest in new social housing over the 2009-11 two 587W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 588W year period; an additional £775 million to support provisional figures show that £115 million was spent by construction activities, including regeneration, decent 31 March 2009. Funding for the scheme is reviewed on homes and social rented housing over the next two a regular basis within the context of the overall programme. years; and housing market renewal pathfinders were The HCA subsequently made £17 million available in awarded £311 million for 2009-10 to support a range of 2009-10 to fund MyChoice HomeBuy purchases for activities, including new build. those applicants who had been issued with authority to Last month, the 2009 Budget announced a further £1 proceed prior to the end of the 2008-09 financial year billion of additional resources for housing which included but had not completed their purchase. a £400 million kickstart housing delivery fund to restart stalled construction activity across the country. This John Howell: To ask the Secretary of State for should help developers retain jobs and skills, and boost Communities and Local Government how many the supply of homes over the next year—benefiting first applications for assistance under the MyChoice HomeBuy time buyers and social tenants. The Budget also allocated scheme had been made as at 1 May 2009; how many £100 million over two years to enable local authorities had been declined; and for what reasons in each case. to deliver new social housing on land they already own [277890] that can be developed only by them. In order to compliment this investment, the Government Margaret Beckett: Applicants can, and usually do, are taking a range of measures to ensure that the apply for several HomeBuy schemes, not just MyChoice housing sector grows strongly over the longer term. HomeBuy. A total of 53,919 applications were received These measures will: ensure sufficient land for development, for MyChoice HomeBuy, in the period from April through housing allocations in local plans and further 2008—when the scheme was launched—to the end of action on public sector land, supported by a responsive April 2009. During that time period, 29,148 applicants and efficient planning system; deliver effective and in total were approved to look for a property. Information coordinated infrastructure provision; promote a strong on applications declined is not collected centrally. and diverse house building sector; continue to ensure the increased long-term supply of social and affordable Local Government housing; and. ensure a proportionate approach to land-value capture and cumulative regulation. The Government Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for will report on progress at the 2009 pre-Budget report. Communities and Local Government for which indicators other than those in the national indicator set her Housing: Low Incomes Department routinely collects information from local authorities. [276970] John Howell: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what assessment John Healey: The national indicator set is the only set was made of the likely level of demand for MyChoice of performance indicators for which the Government HomeBuy before its introduction; and what collects information from local authorities. With regards mechanism was established for the allocation of to other information collected by my Department, I funding to that scheme. [277888] refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave him on Margaret Beckett: The MyChoice HomeBuy product 2 February 2009, Official Report, columns 965-66W. was introduced, along with OwnHome (a similar product Local Government Finance from different providers) at the beginning of the 2008 to 2011 National Affordable Housing programme, after a competition for new shared equity products. Both Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for MyChoice HomeBuy and OwnHome are open market Communities and Local Government which HomeBuy products. The likely level of demand for recommendations of Sir Michael Lyons’ 2007 report on open market HomeBuy in the 2008 to 2011 programme local government finance (a) have been implemented was assessed with regard to the levels of demand for and (b) are planned to be implemented. [277204] previous open market homebuy products. John Healey: The Government responded to the Lyons We do not set specific budgets for HomeBuy products Inquiry on local government in the Budget report published in advance, to allow flexibility within the Affordable on 21 March 2007 and in a press notice issued by the Housing programme. The cost of any of the schemes is Department on the same day. A copy of the press notice reviewed on a regular basis within the context of the is in the Library. overall programme. In managing the programme, the Government seek to strike the right balance between this scheme and other programmes such as the provision Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for of new homes and properties for social rent. Communities and Local Government how much each local authority has received (a) in cash terms and (b) John Howell: To ask the Secretary of State for per capita in (i) planning delivery grant and (ii) housing Communities and Local Government how much and planning delivery grant in each year of each funding allocated to the MyChoice HomeBuy scheme scheme. [277241] in 2008-09 was not spent. [277889] Mr. Iain Wright: Data regarding the amounts received Margaret Beckett: We do not set a specific budget for by each local planning authority for Planning Delivery the MyChoice HomeBuy product in advance, to allow Grant (PDG) for the period 2003-08 and Housing and flexibility within the Affordable Housing Programme. Planning Delivery Grant (HPDG) for 2008-09 together However, the HCA made up to £133 million available to with a per capita calculation for the total of PDG and a MyChoice HomeBuy providers in 2008-09 of which separate one for HPDG has been placed in the Library. 589W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 590W

Local Government: Pensions John Healey: Ministers and officials from the Department regularly meet representatives of the business community Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for and local government to discuss business rates matters. Communities and Local Government how much on Since the announcement of the business rates deferral average local authorities’ employer contributions to the scheme officials have in particular held discussions on Local Government Pension Scheme are as a percentage its implementation and administration. of an individual’s salary. [276921] Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for John Healey: This information is not held centrally. Communities and Local Government when she plans However, general information about the level of next to review the rateable value limits in (a) England contributions paid into the Local Government Pension and (b) London; and if she will make a statement. Scheme by employers and employees can be found on [278075] the Communities and Local Government website at: http://www.local.communities.gov.uk/finance/stats/ John Healey: Various rateable value thresholds are pensions.htm used in the non-domestic rating system to target rate relief at smaller properties. We will consider all rateable The most recent information, for 2007-08, was published value thresholds in light of the 2010 revaluation over on 15 October 2008. the course of the rest of this year. Local Government: Political Impartiality Non-Domestic Rates: Greater London

Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what timetable Communities and Local Government pursuant to the her Department has set for bringing forward legislative answer to the hon. Member for Meriden of 8 May 2009, proposals to change the Widdicombe rules on restrictions Official Report, columns 453-54W, on non-domestic on political activity by local authority officials. [277034] rates: Greater London, what the title of the substantive Valuation Office Agency document was from which the John Healey: Provisions to amend the Widdicombe section on the sub-location concept was taken. [277122] rules by removing the salary bar link to politically restricted posts were introduced by Government amendment John Healey: The title of the document is: Review of to the Local Democracy, Economic Development and sub location codes. Construction Bill during its Third Reading on 29 April Non-Domestic Rates: Microgeneration in the other place. Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Mayors: Greater Manchester Communities and Local Government whether her Department has prepared an impact assessment in respect Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for of changes to the business rate liability of microgeneration Communities and Local Government what recent equipment to be applied during the 2010 rates revaluation. discussions her Department has had on the establishment [276966] of a Mayor for Greater Manchester. [277502] John Healey: The 2010 revaluation is undertaken John Healey: I refer the hon. Member to the answer under section 52 of the Local Government Finance Act my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Mr. Dhanda) 1988. As we are not introducing a new policy proposal, gave him on 10 June 2008, Official Report, column scheme or new legislation, under the guidance published 144W. by BERR on their website, the revaluation does not require an impact assessment. Non-Domestic Rates The purpose of revaluation is to ensure that the liability of a property reflects the market values on Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 April 2008. Communities and Local Government whether her Department’s methodology for its annual calculation to Non-Domestic Rates: Ports adjust the business rate multiplier in line with the Retail Prices Index (RPI) the previous September allows for a Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for reduction in the multiplier when RPI is negative; and if Communities and Local Government if she will make it she will make a statement. [277350] her policy to bring forward legislative proposals to prohibit the retrospective application of business rates John Healey: Calculation of the multiplier is determined to firms in ports. [276926] by a formula set out in schedule 7 of the Local Government Finance Act 1988. John Healey: The policy underpinning the requirement for backdating where appropriate is to ensure a rateable Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for property pays its fair amount of rates from the point the Communities and Local Government with which property should be rated to ensure all business are representative bodies her Department had discussions treated fairly. on the business rate deferral scheme (a) in the three The rates system must be equitable to all and any months prior to and (b) following the announcement solution to a situation as in the ports must not confer a of the scheme. [277468] disadvantage upon other ratepayers. 591W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 592W

The statutory framework of business rates gives Ministers Established comprehensive governance arrangements that provide no discretion to remove a liability to taxation, and we for ongoing scrutiny of risk and a ready means of escalating do not believe it would be in the interests of fair and resolving any emerging problems in programme delivery, competition or in line with the principles of taxation for financial control and management. such a liability to be waived. Regional Development Agencies: Finance Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what estimate Julia Goldsworthy: To ask the Secretary of State for she has made of the potential change in non-port Communities and Local Government what funding rateable values in Milford Haven Port Authority as a her Department has allocated to each regional result of the Valuation Office Agency’s review of ports development agency for (a) 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 and rates liability. [277015] (c) 2011-12. [277880]

John Healey: The Milford Haven assessment is currently Mr. Khan: The Department of Communities and subject to legal opinion, and therefore the VOA consider Local Government does not directly allocate funding to it inappropriate to estimate liability at this point in time. the regional development agencies. Regional development agencies are instead funded through a single programme, Non-Domestic Rates: Religious Buildings which is administered by their sponsor Department, the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform. Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the My Department is, however, one of six contributory answer to the hon. Member for Peterborough of 7 May Departments to this single programme, with a planned 2009, Official Report, column 382W, on the Church of contribution of £1.585 billion during 2009-10. Scientology, what (a) criteria and (b) methodology For information, total departmental allocations to the Valuation Office Agency uses to determine whether the regional development agencies’ single programme a faith community is deemed to be eligible for a place for 2009-10 and 2010-11 are set out in the following of worship business rate exemption. [277024] table.

John Healey: Schedule 5 para. 11(1) to the Local Total single programme Government Act 1988 provides the criteria for exemption allocation (£) from non-domestic rating for places of public religious Regional development agency 2009-10 2010-11 worship. Premises occupied by a faith community will Advantage West Midlands 295,165,000 212,003,000 be exempt providing: East of England Development 135,740,000 108,115,000 It is a place of religious worship Agency The worship is public East Midlands Development 160,322,000 131,304,000 Agency The premises are certified as a place of religious worship by the Registrar General or belong to the Church of England or the London Development Agency 374,963,000 325,521,000 Church in Wales. North West Development Agency 397,410,000 304,572,000 Valuation officers’ methodology is to follow the above One North East 249,226,000 194,845,000 criteria. South East England 165,097,000 132,562,000 Development Agency South West Development Agency 157,463,000 124,580,000 Regeneration: Finance Yorkshire Forward 317,475,000 228,160,000 Total 2,252,861,000 1,761,662,000 Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the It should be noted that allocations for 2010-11 are answer to the hon. Member for Meriden of 8 May currently indicative. 2009, Official Report, column 454W, on regeneration, Single programme allocations for 2011-12 are yet to what steps her Department has taken to guard against be determined, falling outside the current 2008 to 2011 repetition of such financial irregularities. [277236] spending review settlement.

John Healey: The 2007-13 round of the European Valuation Office: Local Government regional development fund is being administered by regional development agencies. In setting up these Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for programmes we have: Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Worked with RDAs to agree a comprehensive set of instructions answer to the hon. Member for Meriden of 7 May 2009, and guidelines that clarify at the start of the programme round Official Report, columns 400-2W, on Valuation Office, what is required to ensure compliance with the regulations and to maintain a high level of financial control. These materials if she will place in the Library a copy of a Billing include specific reference to the weaknesses identified in the Authority Report submitted via the e-BAR facility. previous programme round. [276915] Commissioned and carried out independent scrutiny of the management and financial control systems used by RDAs and John Healey: Billing Authorities send information to CLG to ensure compliance with programme requirements. the Valuation Office Agency. This information, required Established an independent audit authority that will carry out to assist in maintaining valuation and rating lists, is a programme of audits of expenditure throughout the lifetime called a billing authority report or BAR. Some Billing of these ERDF programmes. Authorities submit their BARs electronically using the 593W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 594W e-BAR facility. As the e-BAR is electronic, and can be Class Sizes: Primary Education in different formats, it is not possible to provide a typical e-BAR. Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many key stage 1 children Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for were in classes of (a) over 20, (b) over 25 and (c) over Communities and Local Government pursuant to the 30 pupils in the latest year for which figures are answer to the hon. Member for Meriden of 7 May available; and if he will make a statement. [276512] 2009, Official Report, columns 400-2W, on Valuation Office, whether any Billing Authority Report submitted via the e-BAR facility has included information Jim Knight: The information requested is in the following derived from building control data. [276916] table. Maintained primary schools1: Number of Key Stage 1 children in John Healey: The sources of information vary from classes2,3. Coverage: England. Year: January 2009 (provisional) Billing Authority to Billing Authority. The Building Class size Number of pupils Control Department will be a source for some Billing All classes 1,396,830 Authorities. Over 20 pupils 1,293,370 Over 25 pupils 997,370 Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Over 30 pupils4 29,200 Communities and Local Government pursuant to the 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. answer to the hon. Member for Meriden of 7 May 2 One teacher classes as taught during a single selected period in each 2009, Official Report, columns 400-2W, on Valuation school on the day of the census in January. Office, what the differences are between the Valuebill 3 Includes reception classes. 4 Includes all pupils in large classes, including those with excepted interface and the e-BAR facility. [276917] activity. Note: John Healey: The various data exchanges between Numbers have been rounded to the nearest 10. billing authorities, the Valuation Office Agency, and the National Land and Property Gazetteer covered by the former Valuebill project can be regarded as the Valuebill interface. The e-BAR facility is a development, based Family Courts: Advisory Services on a Valuebill schema, to enable Billing Authorities to send electronic reports to VOA. Mr. Illsley: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families what steps he is taking to reduce the time taken for the compilation of reports by the Children and Family Court Advisory Support Service CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES in Barnsley. [276879] Children in Care Beverley Hughes: Where courts in Barnsley have requested a CAFCASS report they have been completed, on John Bercow: To ask the Secretary of State for average, within seventeen weeks in 2008-09. CAFCASS Children, Schools and Families how many (a) family have agreed with the courts in Barnsley to reduce the and friend carers and (b) family and friends foster time taken to deal with these requests to 12 weeks from carers are providing full-time care for a child because of the 1 April 2009. (i) parental drug and alcohol misuse, (ii) the death of a parent, (iii) parental imprisonment, (iv) domestic CAFCASS are looking to achieve this reduction by working closely with the judiciary in the area to implement violence and (v) other reasons. [270225] their service improvement plan. The plan focuses on a sustained systematic approach of restructuring the way Beverley Hughes: Data on the reasons for a child in which they deliver services in South Yorkshire. being provided with full-time care by their relative or friend are not collected centrally. This is the case both for family and friends carers who are approved foster carers and for those who are not. GCSE: Plymouth Children: Databases Linda Gilroy: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Andrew Turner: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many children Children, Schools and Families how many (a) maintained resident in Plymouth, Sutton achieved five or more A* and (b) independent schools have indicated that they to C grades at GCSE in (a) 1997 and (b) 2008. will not take part in the ContactPoint database. [272310] [276681]

Beverley Hughes: We are not aware nationally of any Jim Knight: Consistent information about pupil individual schools in either (a) the maintained or (b) achievement based on residency is only available for independent school sectors that have indicated that they years 2002/03 onwards. The requested information for will not take part in ContactPoint. 2002/03 and 2007/08 is provided in the table. 595W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 596W

Percentage of pupils1 resident in Plymouth, Sutton constituency achieving five or more A*-C grades at GCSE and equivalents, 2002/032 1997 2002 2005 2007 and 2007/083 Percentage Number of pupils 2002/03 54.7 achieving KS3 Level 7 2007/08 67.3 English 22,491 49,176 44,189 36,895 1 Pupils attending maintained schools only. Mathematics 48,755 85,807 109,326 113,119 2 Based on pupils aged 15 with a valid postcode at the start of the Science 28,237 47,981 56,506 73,456 academic year and includes GCSEs and GNVQs. 3 Based on pupils at the end of Key Stage 4 with a valid postcode in that academic year and includes GCSEs and equivalents. Number of pupils Source: achieving KS3 Level 8 National Pupil Database (final data). English 2,817 4,249 — — Gifted Children Mathematics 4,154 15,928 22,996 35,810 Science 1,413 2,914 — — Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Note: Includes pupils for whom admission policy information was Children, Schools and Families how many and what unknown or for which information was not applicable. percentage of gifted and talented pupils stayed in From 2003, Level 8 can only be achieved in mathematics full-time education beyond the age of 16 years in each following the end of extension papers at KS3. of the last three years. [268494] National Safeguarding Delivery Unit: Manpower Jim Knight: The information requested is provided in the table. This shows the number and percentage of Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for young people identified in maintained schools as being Children, Schools and Families how many people will gifted and talented that stayed on in full-time education be employed to work on the National Safeguarding beyond 16. The data relates to the cohorts of young Delivery Unit. [274283] people who completed compulsory education at the end of academic years 2005-06 and 2006-07. The staying on Beverley Hughes: Pages 7-11 of ‘The protection of rate represents those who were identified as being in children in England: action plan—The Government’s full-time education in the year following their completion response to Lord Laming’, published on 6 May, included of compulsory education, but only covers participation an explanation of the steps to be taken to establish the in the maintained sector. Data are not available for National Safeguarding Delivery Unit. This makes clear earlier cohorts. that the unit, which will be operational in July, will be Number and percentage of gifted and talented children that stayed on hosted within the Department for Children, Schools in full-time education beyond 16, England and Families and will include expert staff from the Number of Percentage of Home Office, Ministry of Justice, and Department of gifted and gifted and Health as well as local agencies and the voluntary talented talented Total number children that children that sector. Regional Government office staff will also work Year of gifted and stayed on in stayed on in as part of the unit. The precise numbers of staff are in completed talented full-time full- time the process of being determined. compulsory children aged education education education 15 beyond 16 beyond 16 Primary Education

2005-06 64,000 58,600 92 2006-07 81,300 74,500 92 Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Note: Schools and Families how many schools in England Figures have been rounded to the nearest hundred. educate five to seven year olds; and if he will make a Source: statement. [276883] Matched Administrative Data National Curriculum Tests Jim Knight: The information is as follows.

Phase of education Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many pupils in Type of Middle Middle establishment deemed deemed Grand non-selective maintained schools achieved (a) level 7 primary secondary Primary total and (b) level 8 in Key Stage 3 examinations in (i) English, (ii) mathematics and (iii) science in (A) 1997, Community 20 3 9,307 9,330 (B) 2002, (C) 2005 and (D) the latest year for which Foundation — — 326 326 figures are available. [262267] Voluntary 8 — 3,550 3,558 aided Jim Knight: The requested information is shown as Voluntary 4 — 2,392 2,396 follows: controlled Grand total 32 3 15,575 15,610 1997 2002 2005 2007 Note: This answer includes schools whose age range covers the following: Eligible pupils Middle deemed primary includes ages 3-16, 4-12, and 5-12. Middle deemed secondary includes ages 3-18 and 4 to 18 years old. English 521,887 575,941 588,020 563,761 Primary includes all ages from 2 to 11 years old. Mathematics 523,935 577,784 587,690 564,046 Source: Science 524,076 578,483 588,374 564,688 EduBase 2 597W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 598W

Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, instead. Key stage 1 would normally include those Schools and Families what recent estimate he has made pupils aged five and six as at 31 August in the previous of the likely number of pupils in Key Stage 1 in each of academic year. the next 10 years; and if he will make a statement. [276886] The Department’s current projections for the number of full-time equivalent (FTE) pupils aged five and six in Jim Knight: The Department does not make projections maintained primary and other schools in England are for pupil numbers by key stages directly, but by age shown as follows:

Projected numbers of FTE pupils1, 2 aged five and six, projections as at January each year Projected (thousands) Age at previous 31 August 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017

Total pupils aged 5 and 6 1,153 1,193 1,222 1,248 1,291 1,322 1,335 1,353 1,366 Maintained primary schools 1,084 1,121 1,149 1,174 1,213 1,241 1,253 1,270 1,283 Other schools 3 69 72 74 75 78 80 81 82 83 1 Full-time equivalents, counting each part-time pupil as 0.5. The numbers have been rounded to the nearest one thousand. 2 Experience has shown that totals in maintained primary schools are usually within ±0.2 per cent. for the first projected year. There is less certainty in the longer term. Factors which contribute to differences between projections and outturn data include the underlying population trends, participation among under fives and variations of proportions attending independent schools. Projections are increasing in uncertainty. 3 Includes numbers of pupils in academies, special schools, pupil referral units and independent schools.

Updated projections for the number of pupils in Jim Knight: The information requested is not collected; maintained primary and other schools are due to be it is a school level decision to implement biometric published in the Departmental Annual Report on 8 systems. June 2009. These will take into account the provisional School Census figures for January 2009. Projections are Schools: Capital Investment not shown beyond 2017 because of the increasing degree of uncertainty over time. Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many additional jobs his Department expects to be created by bringing Pupils: Per Capita Costs forward its capital expenditure for school building projects in the next 12 months. [249118] Linda Gilroy: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families what the average expenditure per Jim Knight: A tentative estimate of the number of school pupil in Plymouth was in the latest period for jobs that will be created in 2009-10 is 10,000. which figures are available. [276360] Schools: Complaints Jim Knight: The available information is shown in the Mr. Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for following table: Children, Schools and Families how many complaints School based expenditure per pupil in local authority maintained schools for have been made about schools to Ofsted by parents in 2007-08 each of the last two years; how many of those were LA maintained investigated; and if he will make a statement. [273417] Nursery Primary Secondary Special All schools schools schools schools schools Jim Knight [holding answer 7 May 2009]: This is a England 7,880 3,580 4,620 18,650 4,220 matter for Ofsted. HM Chief Inspector, Christine Gilbert, Plymouth 6,860 3,400 4,510 16,790 4,160 has written to the hon. Member and a copy of her reply Notes: has been placed in the House Libraries. 1. School based expenditure includes only expenditure incurred directly by the schools. This includes the pay of teachers and school-based support staff, Letter from Christine Gilbert, dated 20 May 2009: school premises costs, books and equipment, and certain other supplies and Your recent parliamentary question has been passed to me, as services, less any capital items funded from recurrent spending and income from Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector, for reply. sales, fees and charges and rents and rates. This excludes the central cost of support services such as home to school transport, local authority administration Under section 11A of the Education Act 2005, as amended by and the financing of capital expenditure. the Education and Inspections Act 2006, Ofsted may consider 2. Pupil numbers include only those pupils attending maintained establishments whether to investigate certain complaints, known as qualifying within each sector and are drawn from the DCSF School Census adjusted to be on a financial year basis. complaints, made about schools. Table A shows the number of 3. Figures are as reported by local authorities as at 29 May 2009 and are complaints about schools made to Ofsted in the last two years rounded to the nearest £10. 2007-08 data remains provisional and is subject to and how many of these qualified for further investigation. Ofsted change by the local authority. may consider a complaint about a school from any person, not 4. Cash terms figures as reported by local authorities as at 29 May 2009. just a registered parent. The data in Table A may include complaints from persons other than parents. To qualify, the subject of the complaint must fall within one of Schools: Biometrics the areas covered by Ofsted’s school inspection remit, as defined by section 5 of the Education Act 2005 and the relevant regulations. Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, These are: Schools and Families what recent assessment his The quality of the education provided in the school Department has made of the effects of the use of How far the education provided in the school meets the needs biometrics in schools; and if he will make a statement. of the range of pupils at the school [277064] The educational standards achieved in the school 599W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 600W

The quality of the leadership in and management of the In addition, a complaint must be made in writing and must not school, including whether the financial resources made available fall within the remit of another statutory complaints process. to the school are managed effectively Furthermore, the complainant must normally have already exhausted local complaints procedures. Ofsted may waive this particular The spiritual, moral, social and cultural development of the requirement, but will normally only do so in exceptional circumstances. pupils at the school This is because it is appropriate that a school and/or the relevant The contribution made by the school to the well-being of those local authority have the opportunity to put right a complaint pupils before it is referred to Ofsted. A copy of this reply has been sent to Rt Hon Jim Knight MP, From September 2008, the contribution made by the school to Minister of State for Schools and Learners, and will be placed in community cohesion. the library of both Houses.

Table A: Complaints about schools made to Ofsted, April 2007 to March 2009 Those retained for Those qualifying for the lead inspector Those leading to the Total written consideration under for the next Those leading to an next scheduled complaints about Those concerning Ofsted’s powers of scheduled immediate inspection being Year schools safeguarding issues1 investigation2 inspection3 inspection brought forward

27 April 2007 to 1,196 18 142 86 1 1 4 April 2008 4 April 2008 to 1,345 15 15 6 1 1 31 March 2009 1 These complaints concerned safeguarding issues and were sent to Ofsted’s safeguarding teams for further consideration. 2 The main reasons for complaints not qualifying are that complainants have either failed to exhaust local complaints procedures, or the complaint does not fall within the areas covered by Ofsted’s school inspection remit. Ofsted responds to such complaints with advice on resolving their concerns through more appropriate authorities. 3 Ofsted considers all qualifying complaints. In the first instance, Ofsted may investigate by contacting the school or local authority, as well as consider the school’s self-evaluation form, performance data, and their last inspection report. At this point, we are normally able to determine what action should be taken, which may lead to an inspection of the school or the information being retained for the next scheduled inspection. Alternatively, we may further investigate the issue raised by the complaint, which may include requiring the school or local authority to provide information relevant to the complaint or to hold a meeting of parents. We may also formally refer the complaint to the school or local authority.

Schools: Inspections remit expanded to include early years inspection and regulation. Since April 2007, Ofsted has also had responsibility for the inspection and regulation of care for children and young people, Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for and the inspection of education and training for learners of all Children, Schools and Families what the cost of ages. Over the same period, improvements to the way we deliver inspections of (a) schools and (b) nurseries and other inspection and regulation have enabled Ofsted to make substantial pre-school provision was in each of the last 12 years. savings. These changes have affected the costs of regulation and [274583] inspection and year on year comparison of these costs. Further explanatory notes accompany the table below. Jim Knight: This is a matter for Ofsted. HM Chief A copy of this reply has been sent to Rt Hon Jim Knight MP, Inspector, Christine Gilbert, has written to the hon. Minister of State for Schools and Learners, and will be placed in the library of both Houses. Member and a copy of her reply has been placed in the House Libraries. Table A: Ofsted’s expenditure on inspection of schools and inspection and regulation of nurseries and other pre-school provision Letter from Christine Gilbert, dated 20 May 2009: Your recent parliamentary question has been passed to me, as £ million Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector, for a response. Total cost of inspection Ofsted is a non-ministerial government department and its and regulation of funding is provided by HM Treasury. Table A shows Ofsted’s Total cost of school nurseries and other pre- total expenditure related to the inspection of schools, and the Year inspection1 school provision inspection and regulation of nurseries and other pre-school provision.

The financial data are derived from Ofsted’s audited accounts, 1997-98 n/a 0.0 which reflect as consistently as possible the cost of inspection and regulation. The accounts do not separately distinguish the cost of 1998-99 n/a 0.0 inspecting nurseries and other pre-school provision, from the cost of regulating these services. The full cost of inspection and 1999-2000 n/a 0.0 regulation activity is provided and includes direct, indirect and overhead costs. 2000-01 n/a 0.0 Please note that while the inspection of schools has been a major element of Ofsted’s work for the last 12 years, information 2001-02 n/a 48.5 included in Ofsted’s audited accounts does not separately identify this cost until financial year 2003-04. The cost of school inspection 2002-03 n/a 80.1 has, therefore, only been provided from this point onwards. Similarly, Ofsted assumed responsibility for early years inspection 2003-04 106.6 79.6 and regulation from financial year 2001-02, and the cost of delivering our programme of early years inspection and regulation 2004-052 101.0 92.9 has been derived from Ofsted’s summary accounts from this point onwards. 2005-06 106.1 88.4 As outlined above, Ofsted has undergone considerable change since the financial year 1997-98. From 1997-98 to 2000-01, Ofsted 2006-073 100.6 61.4 was primarily responsible for the inspection of schools, local education authorities and teacher training. From 2001-02, Ofsted’s 2007-084 77.7 63.1 601W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 602W

1 The total cost of school inspection includes the costs of inspecting ‘nursery Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for schools’, that is maintained schools for children of nursery age, inspected under the current school inspection framework (commonly known as section 5). Children, Schools and Families which schools were Children of nursery age may also attend childcare provision, within the categories rated (a) inadequate in their latest Ofsted inspection of ‘childcare on domestic premises’ and ‘childcare on non-domestic premises’, and either inadequate or satisfactory in the inspection such as a private day nursery. The costs of inspecting and regulating these providers are included in the totals relating to nurseries and other pre-school before that and (b) satisfactory in their latest provision. inspection and either inadequate or satisfactory in the 2 In the financial year 2005-06, Ofsted used an improved method for calculating inspection before that. [274589] total costs of inspection and regulation. The 2004-05 figures above are the recalculated figures based on this new method. 3 Between the financial years 2004-05 and 2006-07 Ofsted established a new Jim Knight: This is a matter for Ofsted. HM Chief regional structure, rationalising the support for inspections within three regional offices. These changes led to substantial reduction in the cost of inspection and Inspector, Christine Gilbert, has written to the hon. regulation activity. Member and a copy of her reply has been placed in the 4 Ofsted recently performed a more detailed, comprehensive and robust analysis House Libraries. of Ofsted’s 2007-08 financial accounts to identify the cost of the inspection of schools, and the inspection and regulation of nurseries and pre-school provision. We have used information from this analysis to complete the table above. In the Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for absence of such an analysis for previous years, it is not possible to make a Children, Schools and Families how many and what consistent comparison between years. proportion of pupils in each local authority area Schools: Repairs and Maintenance attended (a) primary and (b) secondary schools which were in special measures in each of the last five years. [274901] Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families what the average length of time was between the identification of a school for Jim Knight: This is a matter for Ofsted. HMCI Christine (a) rebuilding and (b) refurbishment and the Gilbert will be replying and a copy of her letter will be completion of the project in the last five years in placed in the Libraries of both Houses. respect of (i) academies, (ii) primary schools, (iii) schools under the Building Schools for the Future Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for programme and (iv) other secondary schools. [271771] Children, Schools and Families which schools have been in special measures (a) twice, (b) three times and Jim Knight: Academies built through the Building (c) more than three times in the last 12 years. [275808] Schools for the Future Programme (BSF) will follow a timeline similar to the average for that programme. The Jim Knight: This is a matter for Ofsted. HMCI Christine time taken for academies built through the traditional Gilbert will be replying and a copy of her letter will be procurement model varies depending on the nature of placed in the Library of both Houses. the project. We do not hold precise data centrally and it Letter from Christine Gilbert, dated 22 May 2009: would exceed the cost threshold to compile. Your recent parliamentary question has been passed to me, as The average procurement time to completion for new Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector, for a response. or replacement schools in BSF has been 176 weeks. This Tables A and B show which schools have been placed in special includes the time in procuring authorities’ private sector measures twice and three times. Between 1 September 1997 and partners, Local Education Partnerships, each of which 31 December 2008,1,940 maintained schools were placed in special is responsible for rebuilding or refurbishing a package measures once, and 67 schools were placed in special measures of several schools. Partnerships for Schools expect times twice. One school, Malvern Hills Primary School, was placed in to reduce, following changes in the procurement process. special measures three times. This school has now closed. No school has been placed in special measures more than three times. The BSF Procurement Review, the outcome of a Of the 67 schools that required special measures a second time, major consultation exercise with stakeholders including five were found to require special measures at their re-inspection local authorities, contractors, industry groups and the without ever being removed from this category. Technically, they design community, promises savings of up to £250 remained in special measures. They are included at the foot of million across the national programme. Table B. Data for the spring term 2009 have not yet been published It will also make this part of the BSF process more and are not included in these figures. timely, streamlined and efficient, reducing procurement A copy of this reply has been sent to Rt Hon Jim Knight MP, times by up to two months. Minister of State for Schools and Learners, and will be placed in the library of both Houses. The Department does not hold information on Table A: Schools placed in special measures twice between 1 Sep 1997 and procurement times for other secondary schools, nor for 31 December 2008 primary schools. Open/closed URN School LA indicator

Schools: Standards 130340 Monteagle Primary Barking and Open School Dagenham Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for 103309 Primrose Hill Birmingham Open Children, Schools and Families which schools were Community School 101526 Chalkhill Primary Brent Open given a rating of (a) inadequate and (b) satisfactory School for behaviour in their last Ofsted inspection; and what 132008 Burwood School Bromley Open the date of each such inspection was. [274587] 110492 Quarrendon School Buckinghamshire Open 107532 Mount Pellon Junior Calderdale Open Jim Knight: This is a matter for Ofsted. HM Chief and Infant School Inspector, Christine Gilbert, has written to the hon. 110857 St. Andrew’s CofE Cambridgeshire Closed Member and a copy of her reply has been placed in the Community VA Junior School House Libraries. 603W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 604W

Table A: Schools placed in special measures twice between 1 Sep 1997 and Table A: Schools placed in special measures twice between 1 Sep 1997 and 31 December 2008 31 December 2008 Open/closed Open/closed URN School LA indicator URN School LA indicator

109747 Oak Bank School Central Open 100806 Peckham Rye Primary Southwark Closed Bedfordshire School 109139 Badocks Wood Primary City of Bristol Open 124854 Kirkley Middle School Suffolk Open School 124976 St. Francis, Westborough Surrey Closed 112390 The Morton School Cumbria Closed Community Primary 112558 Langley Mill Junior Derbyshire Open 114900 Chadwell St. Mary Thurrock Open School Primary School 112937 Deincourt Community Derbyshire Open 100887 Alice Model Nursery Tower Hamlets Open School School 113373 Bridgerule Church of Devon Open 104165 Beechdale Primary Walsall Closed England Primary School School 106781 North Doncaster Doncaster Open 103040 Church Mead Junior Waltham Forest Closed Technology College School 115604 Finlay Community Gloucestershire Closed 130873 Acorns Primary School Warwickshire Open School 126489 Ludgershall Castle Wiltshire Open 115817 Cam House School Gloucestershire Open Primary School 100240 Sebright School Hackney Open 116751 Worcester, Dines Green Worcestershire Open 116233 Park Primary School Hampshire Open Primary School 115995 Shepherds Spring Junior Hampshire Closed 116771 Worcester, Elbury Worcestershire Closed School Mount Primary School 130325 Waite End Primary Hampshire Open 131491 Redgrave School Worcestershire Closed School 107364 Rhodesway School Bradford Open 115838 The Bridge Education Hampshire Open 107228 Usher Street Bradford Closed Centre 108473 Montagu Community Newcastle Upon Closed 102449 Abbotsfield School Hillingdon Open Full Service School Tyne 102557 Syon Park School Hounslow Closed 133267 Sherwood Hall School Nottinghamshire Closed 118259 Northcourt Primary Kent Closed and Sixth Form College School 125272 Thomas Knyvett College Surrey Open 118724 St. Barnabas CofE VA Kent Open Primary School Table B: Schools placed in special measures three times between 1 September 1997 and 31 December 2008 118925 Montgomery School Kent Closed Open/closed 107759 Fartown High School Kirklees Open URN School LA indicator 119998 Queensmead Junior Leicester City Closed School 116710 Malvern Hills Primary Worcestershire Closed 120087 Beaumont Lodge Leicester City Open School Primary School 120687 Hartsholme Primary Lincolnshire Open School Social Services: Children 104595 Childwall Valley Primary Liverpool Closed School 109425 Orchard Centre Luton Open Helen Southworth: To ask the Secretary of State for 105548 Saviour CofE Primary Manchester Open Children, Schools and Families what guidance is issued School by his Department to local authority children’s services 102669 St. Teresa’s Catholic Merton Open in relation to the provision of accommodation and Primary School support services for young persons leaving care who are 110532 The Radcliffe School Milton Keynes Open placed outside the borough with care responsibility. 108520 Gosforth Junior High Newcastle Upon Open [271339] School Tyne 120906 Fairstead Community Norfolk Open Primary School Beverley Hughes: The framework for planning looked 121211 Costessey High School Norfolk Open after children in and leaving care is established in very 117953 Strand Junior School North East Closed detailed regulations and guidance setting out the Lincolnshire requirements established by the Children Act 1989 and 122154 The Orchard School Northamptonshire Closed the Children (Leaving Care) Act 2000. This framework 121928 Sunnyside Primary Northamptonshire Open is intended to ensure that there is proper and thorough School planning on behalf of each child wherever they are 122325 West Sleekburn Middle Northumberland Open placed. Every child and young person must have a “care School plan”. This becomes their pathway plan from age 16 122438 St. Ann’s Well Junior Nottingham City Closed School when local authorities must begin to prepare them for 123083 Thameside Primary Oxfordshire Open the time when they will no longer be looked after. School Where young people have been placed outside of their 109777 Battle Primary School Reading Open local area, the pathway planning process must identify 105011 New Park High School Salford Open whether they will continue to remain in the area where 103914 Burnt Tree Primary Sandwell Open they are placed into adulthood or whether they will School return to the area of their responsible authority. 110077 Langleywood School Slough Closed Government have published the National Protocol 100797 John Donne Primary Southwark Open on Inter-Authority Arrangements for Care Leavers as a School model to assist in managing joint working arrangements 605W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 606W between local authorities where a care leaver who is the Number of mainstream schools attended by pupils with statements of special responsibility of one authority is a resident in another educational needs where no such pupils achieved five A* to C grades at GCSE authority. Number This protocol can be accessed on the ‘Children Leaving 2008 26 Care’ page of the Every Child Matters website. 2007 38 2006 57 The Children and Young Persons Act 2008 received 2005 67 Royal Assent in the last session of Parliament. Section 8 2004 100 of this Act sets out the factors that local authorities Notes: must consider when they make a placement for children 1. Figures prior to 2004 have not been provided as these are not available on a in their care. This clarifies that as far as reasonably comparable basis. 2. These figures are for pupils in maintained mainstream schools that have more practicable authorities must attempt to secure placements than 10 pupils with statements of special educational needs. that are within their area and close to children’s homes. 3. Figures for 2008 include two closed schools that are published in the The priority given to these factors will depend on a Achievement and Attainment Tables. Source: detailed assessment of the circumstances in each individual National Pupil Database case. Later this year we will be consulting on planned Sure Start Programme: First Aid revision of the Children Act statutory guidance which will include revision of leaving care guidance. This Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, revision provides us with the opportunity to provide Schools and Families if he will make it his policy to more information about how we expect local authorities ensure that all Sure Start children’s centres offer first to plan for looked after children and care leavers who aid training to new parents. [272495] have been placed away from their responsible authority. Beverley Hughes: Local authorities, working with NHS and Job Centre Plus partners, are responsible for Special Educational Needs planning and delivering services in Sure Start children’s centres. Parenting and family support services, including support for new parents, are tailored to respond to Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for needs in the local area. Our Sure Start children’s centres Children, Schools and Families pursuant to the answer practice guidance makes clear that children’s centres of 2 March 2009, Official Report, column 1317W, on should be offering a range of interventions to all parents special educational need, what the name and local to help reduce the risk of accidents. Examples include: authority area of each of the 10 schools is. [271832] advising parents on the stages of infant development and the implications for accident and injury prevention; Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The requested information is and offering education awareness campaigns on accident shown in the table. and injury avoidance. Non-maintained special schools: Schools with more than 100 pupils1—as at Teachers: Training January 2008—England URN Local authority School name Mr. Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for 105137 Wirral West Kirby Residential School Children, Schools and Families how many teachers 113044 Derby Royal School for The Deaf (Derby) have entered teacher training under the Transition to 116636 Hampshire Treloar School Teaching programme since its inception; how much his 133653 East Sussex St. Mary’s Wrestwood Children’s Trust Department has spent on the programme to date; and 114677 Brighton and Hove St. John’s School (Brighton) if he will make a statement. [275038] 113652 Devon West of England School Jim Knight: Transition to Teaching is currently supporting 119030 Kent Royal School for Deaf Children and Westgate College for Deaf People 225 participants with more people joining the programme 108657 North Tyneside Percy Hedley School every week. These people are being supported to explore 125453 Surrey National Centre for Young People with the possibility of training as teachers, have applied for Epilepsy, St. Piers School places, gained places or begun training. It is supported 110180 West Berkshire Mary Hare Grammar School by 282 companies and that number is expected to rise. 1 Excludes dually registered pupils. Since the programme was launched in July 2008 the Source: Training and Development Agency for Schools using School Census grant in aid from the Department has spent £1,228,812 on it. This includes initial set-up and launch costs and Special Educational Needs: GCSE costs incurred supporting participants.

Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families at how many DUCHY OF LANCASTER mainstream schools attended by pupils with statements Employment Level of special educational need no such pupils achieved five A* to C grades at GCSE in each year from 1997 to Mr. Hepburn: To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of 2007. [271474] Lancaster (1) how many people were unemployed in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the Jim Knight: The available information can be found North East and (d) the UK in each year since 2007; in the following table. [277459] 607W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 608W

(2) how many people were in employment in (a) Market First Release National and local area estimates for many Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the labour market statistics, including employment and unemployment North East and (d) the UK in each year since 2007; are available from the NOMIS website at: http://www.nomisweb.co.uk. [277460] Table 1: Number of persons unemployed1 resident in Jarrow constituency, South Tyneside, the North East and the UK in each year since 2007 (3) what the average unemployment rate of the working age population in (a) Jarrow constituency, Thousand 12 months South (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East and (d) the ending: Jarrow Tyneside2 North East UK UK was in each year since 2007; [277461] (4) how many (a) males, (b) females and (c) single September 3 6 80 1,603 parents were (i) in employment and (ii) unemployed in 2007 September ****— ***6 *86 *1,643 (A) Jarrow constituency, (B) South Tyneside, (C) the 20083 North East and (D) the UK in each year since 1997. — = Data is unreliable for practical purposes. [277462] 1 Levels of unemployment are provided for persons aged 16 and over. The figures presented are weighted to population estimates published in 2007. Kevin Brennan: The information requested falls within 2 Model Based Estimates. 3 Coefficients of Variation have been calculated for the latest period as an the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have indication of the quality of the estimates. See Guide to Quality as follows. asked the Authority to reply. Guide to Quality: The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of an estimate, the Letter from Karen Dunnell, dated May 2009: smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to lie within As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your +/- twice the CV—for example, for an estimate of 200 with a CV of 5 per cent. Parliamentary Questions asking how many people were unemployed we would expect the population total to be within the range 180-220. Key Coefficient of Variation (CV) (%) Statistical Robustness in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East * 0 = CV<5 Estimates are considered precise and (d) the UK in each year since 2007; how many people were in **5=CV<10Estimates are considered reasonably precise employment in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) *** 10 = CV <20 Estimates are considered acceptable the North East and (d) the UK in each year since 2007; what the **** CV 20 Estimates are considered too unreliable for practical purposes average unemployment rate of the working age population in (a) Source: Annual Population Survey and Model Based Estimates Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East and Table 2: Number of persons employed1 resident in Jarrow constituency, South (d) the UK has been in each year since 2007; and how many (a) Tyneside, the North East and the UK in each year since 2007 males, (b) females and (c) single parents were in (i) in employment Thousand and (ii) unemployed in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East and (d) the UK has been in each year since 12 months South ending: Jarrow Tyneside North East UK 1997. (277459,277460,277461 & 277462). The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles labour September 37 64 1,162 29,042 market statistics for local areas from the Annual Population 2007 Survey (APS) and its predecessor the annual Labour Force Survey September **36 *66 *1,161 *29,350 (LFS). Estimates of total unemployment for unitary and local 20082 authorities are produced from a statistical model, following 1 Levels of employment are provided for persons aged 16 and over. The figures International Labour Organisation (ILO) definitions. presented are weighted to population estimates published in 2007. 2 Coefficients of Variation have been calculated for the latest period as an Table 1 shows the number of people aged 16+, resident in (a) indication of the quality of the estimates. See Guide to Quality as follows. Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East and Guide to Quality: (d) the UK, who were unemployed in each year since 2007. The The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of an estimate, the estimates for UK and the North East have been compiled from smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to lie within +/- twice the CV—for example, for an estimate of 200 with a CV of 5 per cent. the APS to be consistent with those for Jarrow constituency, and we would expect the population total to be within the range 180-220. will therefore differ from the unemployment figures published in Key Statistical Robustness the Labour Market First Release. Estimates for South Tyneside * Estimates are considered precise. are compiled from model based estimates. ** Estimates are considered reasonably precise. *** Estimates are considered acceptable. Table 2 shows the number of people aged 16+, resident in the **** Estimates are considered too unreliable for practical purposes. requested geographies who were employed in each year since Source: 2007. The estimates for UK and the North East have been Annual Population Survey compiled from the APS to be consistent with those for Jarrow Table 3: Average unemployment rates1 for people of working age resident in constituency and South Tyneside and will therefore differ from Jarrow constituency, South Tyneside, the North East and the UK in each year the unemployment figures published in the Labour Market First since 2007 Release. Percentage 12 months South Table 3 shows the average unemployment rate, for persons of ending: Jarrow Tyneside2 North East UK working age (males aged 16 to 64 and females aged 16 to 59), resident in the requested geographies, who were unemployed in September 6.5 8.2 6.5 5.4 each year since 2007. Unemployment rates published by ONS 2007 have been compiled from the APS and are based on the percentage September 6.3 7.7 7.0 5.5 of the economically active population. Estimates for South Tyneside 2008 are compiled from Model based estimates. 1 Number of unemployed people of working age as a percentage of the Table 4 shows the number of lone parents below state pension economically active population. Working age is defined as being: males aged 16 to 64 and females aged 16 to 59. age with dependent children in employment and unemployed in 2 Model based estimates. the requested geographies for the calendar years 2004 to 2007. Source: Estimates are derived from the APS household datasets and are Annual Population Survey and Model Based Estimates only available for January to December for the years 2004 to 2007. Table 4: Number of lone parents1 with dependent children2 in employment Estimates for 2008 will be available from summer 2009. and unemployed in selected areas of UK, 2004 to 2007; January to December of each year Table 5 shows the number of people aged 16+, males and Thousand females resident in the requested geographies who were employed in each year since 2007. The estimates for UK and the North East South Jarrow Tyneside North East UK have also been compiled from the APS to be consistent with those for Jarrow constituency and South Tyneside and will therefore In differ from the unemployment figures published in the Labour employment 609W Written Answers3 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 610W

Table 4: Number of lone parents1 with dependent children2 in employment Table 5: Number of persons employed1 by gender resident in Jarrow constituency, and unemployed in selected areas of UK, 2004 to 2007; January to December South Tyneside, the North East and the UK in each year since 1997 of each year Thousand Thousand Jarrow South North East UK South Tyneside Jarrow Tyneside North East UK 12 months 2004 — 3 47 976 ending: Male Female Male Female Male Female Male Female 2005 — 3 52 1,016 2006 — 2 49 1,025 February 16 16 27 26 488 452 12,005 11,145 20073 ****— ***3 **45 *1,031 1999 February 17 17 25 26 476 460 12,203 11,318 2000 Unemployed February 22 16 33 27 575 500 14,841 12,493 2004 — — 6 98 2001 2005 — — 4 93 February 20 18 33 31 569 506 14,984 12,643 2002 2006 — — 6 115 20073 ****— ****— ***6 *111 February 18 18 31 31 574 508 15,059 12,738 2003 — = Data is unreliable for practical purposes. 1 Men aged 16 to 64 and women aged 16 to 59. February 19 17 32 29 579 512 15,209 12,847 2 Dependent children are children aged under 16 and those 16 to 18 who are 2004 never-married and in full-time education. March 18 17 32 30 597 528 15,384 13,013 3 Coefficients of Variation have been calculated for the latest period as an 2005 indication of the quality of the estimates. See Guide to Quality as follows. Guide to Quality: March 19 18 34 30 602 535 15,427 13,178 The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of an estimate, the 2006 smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to lie within March 19 16 33 29 614 540 15,621 13,291 +/- twice the CV—for example, for an estimate of 200 with a CV of 5 per cent. 2007 we would expect the population total to be within the range 180-220. Key Coefficient of Variation (CV) (%) Statistical Robustness September 20 17 34 30 618 545 15,691 13,351 * 0 = CV<5 Estimates are considered precise 2007 **5=CV<10Estimatesareconsidered reasonably precise March 20 17 35 32 619 545 15,816 13,428 *** 10 = CV <20 Estimates are considered acceptable 2008 **** CV 20 Estimates are considered too unreliable for practical purposes Note: September ***18 ***18 ***34 ***32 *617 *544 *15,848 *13,502 20082 Zeros represent less than 500. Source: 1 Levels of employment are provided for persons aged 16 and over. The figures Annual Population Survey Household data sets presented are weighted to population estimates published in 2007. Table 5: Number of persons employed1 by gender resident in Jarrow constituency, 2 Coefficients of Variation have been calculated for the latest period as an South Tyneside, the North East and the UK in each year since 1997 indication of the quality of the estimates. See Guide to Quality as follows. Guide to Quality: Thousand The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of an estimate, the Jarrow South North East UK smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to lie within Tyneside +/- twice the CV—for example, for an estimate of 200 with a CV of 5 per cent. 12 we would expect the population total to be within the range 180-220. months Key Coefficient of Variation (CV) (%) Statistical Robustness ending: Male Female Male Female Male Female Male Female * 0 = CV<5 Estimates are considered precise **5=CV<10Estimates are considered reasonably precise February 17 14 28 27 491 458 11,454 10,768 *** 10 = CV <20 Estimates are considered acceptable 1997 **** CV 20 Estimates are considered too unreliable for practical purposes Source: February 14 15 25 27 491 456 11,780 10,939 Annual Labour Force Survey and Annual Population Survey 1998

3MC Ministerial Corrections3 JUNE 2009 Ministerial Corrections 4MC Ministerial Corrections [Official Report, 23 April 2009, Vol. 491, c. 812-14W.] Letter of correction from Quentin Davies: Errors have been identified in the table provided in Wednesday 3 June 2009 the written answer given to the hon. Member for Woodspring (Dr. Fox) on 23 April 2009. Certain entries relating to the aircraft types Dominie, Hawk T1, Sentinel, Tucano and Viking were incorrect. The correct answer DEFENCE is as follows: Military Aircraft Mr. Quentin Davies: The numbers of aircraft of each type which are in service, in the forward fleet and fit for Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence purpose are provided in the following table. The figures how many fast jet aircraft of each type there are in (a) shown are the average for February 2009 and have been the Royal Air Force and (b) the forward fleet; and how rounded to the nearest aircraft. many are fit for purpose. [265141] “In service” has been taken to mean the effective [Official Report, 24 March 2009, Vol. 490, c. 271-72W.] fleet, which covers all aircraft barring those which are Letter of correction from Bob Ainsworth: redundant, declared as surplus or awaiting disposal. An error has been identified in the table provided in The number of aircraft in the forward fleet comprises the written answer given to the hon. Member for aircraft which are serviceable and those which are short Woodspring (Dr. Fox) on 24 March 2009. The total term unserviceable. Short term unserviceable aircraft fleet entry for the Hawk T1 was incorrect. The correct are undergoing minor works, forward maintenance or answer is as follows: any other unforeseen rectification work that can arise on a day-to-day basis. Serviceable aircraft available to Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The numbers of fast jet aircraft the front-line commands for operational and training in the RAF, forward fleet and those fit for purpose are purposes are termed fit for purpose. provided in the table. The figures shown are a snapshot of the position on 28 February 2009. Aircraft type In service fleet Forward fleet Fit for purpose BAe 146 2 1 1 Aircraft type Total fleet Forward fleet Fit for purpose BAe 125 6 4 4 Typhoon 53 35 20 C-17 6 5 4 Tornado GR4 138 81 61 Dominie 9 8 4 Tornado F3 69 35 26 Harrier 74 49 44 Harrier 74 49 44 Hawk Tl 129 88 53 Hawk T1 129 80 68 Hercules 15 11 6 Hawk T2 6 0 0 CI30K Hercules 24 19 12 The number of aircraft in the forward fleet comprises CI30J aircraft which are serviceable and those which are short-term Nimrod 14 10 4 unserviceable. Short term unserviceable aircraft are MR2 undergoing minor works, forward maintenance or any Nimrod Rl 3 1 1 other unforeseen rectification work that can arise on a SeaKing251710 day-to-day basis. Serviceable aircraft available to the Sentinel 5 3 2 front line commands for operational and training purposes Sentry 7 5 4 are termed fit for purpose. Aircraft which are undergoing Tornado F3 69 33 29 major servicing or routine maintenance are within the Tornado 138 84 66 depth fleet and are therefore not relevant to this question. GR4 Although delivery of six Hawk T2 has been accepted Tristar 8 6 4 they have not yet been released to service. Tucano955528 Typhoon 53 35 20 Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence VC10 16 13 8 how many Royal Air Force aircraft of each type are Vigilant 64 63 44 (a) in service, (b) in the forward air fleet and (c) fit for Viking 82 65 60 purpose. [269167]

ORAL ANSWERS

Wednesday 3 June 2009

Col. No. Col. No. NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 257 PRIME MINISTER ...... 265 Community Projects (Funding)...... 264 Engagements...... 265 Decommissioning ...... 261 Presbyterian Mutual Society ...... 257 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Wednesday 3 June 2009

Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE...... 11WS LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 14WS Repatriation Policy ...... 11WS Topical Debates ...... 14WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 11WS Justice and Home Affairs Council...... 11WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Wednesday 3 June 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, ENTERPRISE AND REGULATORY CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES—continued REFORM ...... 488W Schools: Inspections...... 599W British Airways ...... 488W Schools: Repairs and Maintenance ...... 601W Business: Government Assistance ...... 488W Schools: Standards...... 601W Business: South West ...... 488W Social Services: Children...... 604W Departmental Disciplinary Proceedings...... 489W Special Educational Needs...... 605W Departmental Dismissal...... 489W Special Educational Needs: GCSE...... 605W Departmental Lost Property ...... 490W Sure Start Programme: First Aid ...... 606W Departmental Marketing ...... 491W Teachers: Training...... 606W Departmental Official Cars...... 491W Departmental Security ...... 491W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 583W Departmental Stationery...... 492W Audit Commission: Official Hospitality...... 583W Departmental Telephone Services ...... 492W Building Regulations...... 584W Directors: Disqualification...... 493W Council Tax ...... 584W Hotels: Construction...... 494W Council Tax: Debt Collection...... 584W Insolvency...... 494W Council Tax: Surrey ...... 584W Insolvency: Sefton...... 494W Empty Property ...... 585W Low Pay Commission: Marketing...... 494W Fire Services: Pensions ...... 585W Low Pay Commission: Pay...... 495W Government Office Network: Finance ...... 586W Members: Correspondence ...... 495W Home Information Packs...... 586W New Businesses ...... 496W Housing: Construction...... 586W Non-Profit Making Associations ...... 496W Housing: Low Incomes ...... 587W Post Offices: Bank Services ...... 497W Local Government ...... 588W Regional Development Agencies...... 497W Local Government Finance ...... 588W Regional Planning and Development...... 497W Local Government: Pensions ...... 589W Royal Mail ...... 498W Local Government: Political Impartiality ...... 589W Small Businesses: Procurement ...... 498W Mayors: Greater Manchester ...... 589W Small Firms Loan Guarantee Scheme...... 498W Non-Domestic Rates...... 589W Non-Domestic Rates: Greater London ...... 590W CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES ...... 593W Non-Domestic Rates: Microgeneration...... 590W Children: Databases...... 593W Non-Domestic Rates: Ports...... 590W Children in Care...... 593W Non-Domestic Rates: Religious Buildings ...... 591W Class Sizes: Primary Education...... 594W Regeneration: Finance ...... 591W Family Courts: Advisory Services ...... 594W Regional Development Agencies: Finance ...... 592W GCSE: Plymouth ...... 594W Valuation Office: Local Government ...... 592W Gifted Children...... 595W National Curriculum Tests...... 595W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 500W National Safeguarding Delivery Unit: Manpower.. 596W Public Libraries...... 500W Primary Education...... 596W Tourism...... 501W Pupils: Per Capita Costs...... 597W Schools: Biometrics...... 597W DEFENCE...... 550W Schools: Capital Investment...... 598W Armed Forces: Foreigners ...... 550W Schools: Complaints ...... 598W Armed Forces: Health Services ...... 550W Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE—continued HOME DEPARTMENT—continued Armed Forces: Pay...... 551W Departmental Work Experience...... 557W Departmental Buildings...... 551W Deportation ...... 557W Departmental Lost Property ...... 551W Entry Clearances: EU Nationals ...... 558W Harrier Aircraft ...... 552W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students ...... 558W Industrial Health and Safety...... 552W Entry Clearances: Pakistan ...... 559W Military Aircraft: Helicopters ...... 552W Human Trafficking ...... 559W Parliamentary Questions: Government Responses. 552W Immigration: Marriage ...... 559W Somalia: Piracy ...... 553W Immigration: Somalia ...... 560W National DNA Database ...... 560W DUCHY OF LANCASTER ...... 606W Oakington Immigration Removal Centre...... 560W Employment Level ...... 606W Official Residences ...... 561W Points of Entry ...... 562W ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE...... 477W Police: Absenteeism...... 562W Elections: Local Government...... 477W Police: Bureaucracy...... 571W Police: Official Visits ...... 572W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Proof of Identity: Fraud ...... 573W AFFAIRS...... 477W Serious Organised Crime Agency: Manpower...... 574W Agriculture: Subsidies ...... 477W Sexual Offences: Registration...... 574W Agriculture: Waste Disposal...... 477W Special Constables: Working Hours ...... 575W Animals: Imports...... 479W UK Border Agency: Consultants ...... 579W Biofuels...... 480W Visas: Overseas Students...... 579W Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control...... 480W Economic and Monetary Union ...... 480W INNOVATION, UNIVERSITIES AND SKILLS ..... 579W Farming: Pigs...... 480W Employment: Young People...... 579W Genetically Modified Organisms...... 481W Higher Education...... 580W Overseas Trade: Palestinians ...... 481W Higher Education: Admissions ...... 580W Renewable Energy: Waste ...... 482W Higher Education: Part-time Education...... 581W Waste Disposal: Fees and Charges ...... 482W Zoos: EU Law...... 482W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 498W Afghanistan: Overseas Aid...... 498W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 509W Cayman Islands: Hurricanes and Tornadoes...... 499W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 509W Departmental Pay ...... 499W Afghanistan: Police ...... 509W Departmental White Papers ...... 499W Aung San Suu Kyi...... 511W Employment Tribunals Service...... 500W Burma: Sanctions...... 511W Sri Lanka: Internally Displaced Persons ...... 500W Conflict Prevention ...... 511W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 512W JUSTICE...... 526W EC Law...... 513W Arrest Warrants ...... 526W European Commission...... 513W Bail Accommodation and Support Service: European Court of Justice ...... 514W Billericay...... 526W European Union ...... 514W Departmental Art Works ...... 527W Gambia: Politics and Government ...... 514W Departmental Dismissal...... 527W Iran: Sanctions...... 514W Departmental Marketing ...... 527W Members: Correspondence ...... 515W Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster...... 527W Middle East: Armed Conflict...... 515W Economic and Monetary Union ...... 528W Pakistan: Nuclear Weapons ...... 515W Legal Aid ...... 528W Peacekeeping Operations ...... 516W Parole...... 529W Sri Lanka: Armed Conflict ...... 521W Prison Accommodation ...... 529W St. Helena: Wind Power ...... 522W Prisoners: Self-harm...... 529W Sudan: Human Rights ...... 522W Prisons: Dagenham...... 530W Tibet ...... 522W Prisons: Greater London...... 531W Treaty of Rome ...... 523W Probation Officers...... 531W Repossession Orders: Reading Berkshire...... 532W HEALTH...... 504W Young Offenders ...... 533W Abortion ...... 504W Eyesight: Testing...... 504W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 523W Healthcare Commission: Complaints...... 504W Criminal Justice and Policing...... 523W Mental Health Services ...... 505W Dissident Republicans...... 524W NHS: Standards...... 505W Fuel Smuggling ...... 523W Vulnerable Adults: Protection ...... 509W Northern Ireland Executive: Funding ...... 524W Police Detection Rates ...... 524W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 553W Political Institutions...... 525W Association of Chief Police Officers: Finance...... 553W Press Freedom...... 524W Asylum: Registration ...... 553W Prisoners: Foreigners...... 525W Asylum: Spain...... 554W Saville Inquiry...... 523W Children: Protection...... 554W State Visits: Republic of Ireland...... 526W Community Relations: Islam...... 556W Terrorism ...... 525W Departmental Billing ...... 556W Departmental Marketing ...... 556W OLYMPICS ...... 501W Departmental Press: Subscriptions ...... 557W CLM...... 501W Col. No. Col. No. OLYMPICS—continued WALES—continued Olympic Delivery Authority: Manpower...... 502W Radioactive Fallout...... 487W Olympic Games 2012: Finance...... 502W WOMEN AND EQUALITY...... 549W PRIME MINISTER ...... 487W Equality and Human Rights Commission: Pay...... 549W Cabinet: Glasgow...... 487W Equality and Human Rights Commission: Domestic Visits: Costs ...... 487W Telephone Services...... 549W Ministerial Policy Advisers...... 487W

TRANSPORT ...... 483W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 534W Airports: Security...... 483W ATOS Healthcare...... 534W Aviation: EU Law ...... 484W Children: Maintenance ...... 535W Departmental Billing ...... 484W Climate Change ...... 538W Departmental Conditions of Employment...... 485W Council Tax Benefits...... 538W Departmental Security ...... 485W Departmental Hotels ...... 539W Railways: Scotland...... 485W Departmental Marketing ...... 539W Road Traffic...... 486W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 540W Roads: Construction ...... 486W Disability Living Allowance...... 541W Speed Limits: Chideock ...... 486W Employment Schemes ...... 542W Employment Services: Lone Parents ...... 542W TREASURY ...... 581W Income Support: Mortgages ...... 543W Bank Services: Post Offices ...... 581W Jobcentre Plus ...... 543W Banks: Iceland ...... 581W Jobcentre Plus: Manpower ...... 544W Business: Government Assistance ...... 582W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Interviews...... 544W Government Departments: Hotels ...... 582W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 546W Lighthouse Group: Network Data ...... 582W Pensioners: Carers’ Benefits ...... 546W Poverty: Children ...... 547W WALES...... 486W Social Security Benefits...... 548W Economic and Monetary Union ...... 486W Welfare Reform Bill ...... 548W MINISTERIAL CORRECTIONS

Wednesday 3 June 2009

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CONTENTS

Wednesday 3 June 2009

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 257] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Prime Minister

Sustainable Communities Act 2007 [Col. 277] Bill presented, and read the First time

Maximum Wage [Col. 278] Motion for leave to introduce Bill—(Paddy Tipping)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Stroke Services [Col. 281] General debate

Leeds City Council Bill [Col. 329] Motion for second reading—(John Battle)—agreed to

Nottingham City Council Bill [Col. 350] Read a Second time

Reading Borough Council Bill [Col. 350] Read a Second time

Petition [Col. 351]

Regional and Local Government [Col. 352] Debate on Motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Rail Industry [Col. 67WH] Stroke Services (Ealing and Southall) [Col. 91WH] UK Aid (North Africa) [Col. 97WH] Private Parking Companies [Col. 120WH] Back Pain Treatment (Costs) [Col. 127WH] Debates on Motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 11WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 477W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Corrections [Col. 3MC]