THE SECOND MEETING OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 11 MARCH 2021

ENGLISH VERSION HANSARD NO: 201 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon. Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP. DEPUTY SPEAKER The Hon. Mabuse M. Pule, MP. (Mochudi East)

Clerk of the National Assembly - Ms B. N. Dithapo Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe Learned Parliamentary Counsel - Ms M. Mokgosi Assistant Clerk (E) - Mr R. Josiah CABINET His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP. - President

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP. (Boteti West) - Vice President Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Hon. K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP. (Molepolole South) - Administration

Hon. K. T. Mmusi, MP. (Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon. Dr L. Kwape, MP. (Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon. E. M. Molale, MP. (Goodhope-Mabule ) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon. K. S. Gare, MP. (Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation Hon. P. K. Kereng, MP. (Specially Elected) - and Tourism Hon. Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP. (Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon. T.M. Segokgo, MP. (Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon. K. Mzwinila, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. T. M. Rakgare, MP. (Mogoditshane) - Development

Hon. A. M. Mokgethi, MP. (Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon. Dr T. Matsheka, MP. (Lobatse) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon. F. M. M. Molao, MP. (Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Hon. Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP. (Tati East) - Technology Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Hon. L. M. Moagi, MP. (Ramotswa) - Energy Security

Hon. P. O. Serame, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Hon. M. Balopi, MP. (Gaborone North) - Development

Hon. M. Kgafela, MP. (Mochudi West) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development

Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Hon. D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP. (Gaborone South) - Public Administration Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. K. K. Autlwetse, MP. (Specially Elected) - Development Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. S. N. Modukanele, MP. (Lerala -Maunatlala) - Development Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Hon. B. Manake, MP. (Specially Elected) - Security

Hon. S. Lelatisitswe, MP. (Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness

Hon. N. W. T. Makwinja, MP. (Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education

Hon. M. S. Molebatsi, MP. (Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. H. B. Billy, MP. (Francistown East) - Development Hon. M. R. Shamukuni, MP. (Chobe) - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES

Names Constituency

RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon. L. Kablay, MP. (Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe Hon. Dr U. Dow, MP. Specially Elected Hon. P. Majaga, MP. Nata-Gweta Hon. J. S. Brooks, MP. Kgalagadi South Hon. C. Greeff, MP. Gaborone Bonnington South Hon. T. Letsholo, MP. Kanye North Hon. T. F. Leuwe, MP. Takatokwane Hon. T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP. Gaborone Central Hon. S. N. Moabi, MP. Tati West Hon. T. Monnakgotla, MP. Kgalagadi North Hon. P. K. Motaosane, MP. Thamaga-Kumakwane Hon. O. Regoeng, MP. Molepolole North Hon. J. L. Thiite, MP. Ghanzi North Hon. P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP. Tonota Hon. A. Lesaso, MP. Shoshong OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon. D. Saleshando, MP. (Leader of the Opposition) Maun West Hon. M. G. J. Motsamai, MP. (Opposition Whip) Ghanzi South Hon. D. L. Keorapetse, MP. Selebi Phikwe West Hon. Y. Boko, MP. Mahalapye East Hon. Dr K. Gobotswang, MP. Sefhare-Ramokgonami Hon. C. K. Hikuama, MP. Ngami Hon. K. K. Kapinga, MP Okavango Hon. G. Kekgonegile, MP. Maun East Hon. T. B. Lucas, MP. Bobonong Hon. K. Nkawana, MP. Selebi Phikwe East Hon. O. Ramogapi, MP. Palapye Hon. Dr N. Tshabang, MP. Nkange Hon. D. Tshere, MP. Mahalapye West Hon. M. I. Moswaane, MP. Francistown West (Botswana Patriotic Front) Hon. T. S. Khama, MP. Serowe West Hon. L. Lesedi, MP. Serowe South Hon. B. Mathoothe, MP. Serowe North Hon. M. Reatile, MP. Jwaneng-Mabutsane (Alliance for Progressives) Hon. W. B. Mmolotsi, MP. Francistown South TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 11th MARCH, 2021

CONTENTS PAGE (S) QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER...... 21-27

TABLING OF PAPER Report of the Portfolio Committee on Education and Skills Development...... 28 Electoral (Amendment) Bill, 2020 (No. 21 Of 2020) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)...... 1-20

Appropriation (2021/2022) Bill, 2021 (No. 2 of 2021) Organisation 2300 - Ministry of Infrastructure and Housing Development Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate)...... 28-46

Organisation 0600-Ministry Of Basic Education...... 47-57

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Thursday 11th March, 2021 MR SPEAKER: I am sure you will take counsel and get advice, but right now I have no Motion before me, I THE ASSEMBLY met at 11:00 a.m. have no notice of such a Motion. I intend to proceed in (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) terms of the Order Paper before the House.

P R A Y E R S MR KEORAPETSE: That is fine Honourable Speaker.

* * * * ELECTORAL (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2020 (NO. 21 OF 2020) HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker! Second Reading HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Interruptions!)… (Resumed debate) MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Order! Order! Honourable Members! Let us start our business this MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members! morning with the Second Reading of the Electoral Debate on this Bill is resuming. When the House (Amendment) Bill. I see Honourable Keorapetse wants adjourned last week Thursday, Honourable Balopi was procedure. on the floor debating and he was left with eight minutes, 45 seconds. MR KEORAPETSE: On a point of procedure. Good morning Right Honourable Speaker! I wish to rise in MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT, LABOUR terms of Section 29 of the National Assembly (Powers PRODUCTIVITY AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT and Privileges), this is the matter relating to an issue (MR BALOPI): Thank you Mr Speaker, good morning, which was raised by the Right Honourable Leader of good morning Honourable Members. the Opposition yesterday. Mr Speaker, I wish that the words uttered by Honourable Rakgare appearing on the Mr Speaker, I pointed out last time before we ran Hansard of Tuesday the 2nd March 2021... out of time that I have a problem with accepting and supporting the Bill by Honourable Saleshando with MR SPEAKER: Hang on! hang on! Honourable reasons. I highlighted that even though they pointed Member, if I hear you well you want to move a Motion? out that the primary elections indicate that nothing is wrong with this Bill, the thing is, what is happening at MR KEORAPETSE: Yes, Mr Speaker. Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) since 2003, it is the MR SPEAKER: Well, we have got a problem. What process of going for primary elections which paves a Standing Order allows you to move that Motion now? way for a new Government. This is where ballots for Members of Parliament are going to be counted one MR KEORAPETSE: Mr Speaker, the counsel I by one where a party which is voted by most people received was that I would have to invoke Section 29 of is declared a winner through the existing Electoral Act. the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, the The unfortunate thing is that his Bill is focusing on same was used to expunge words uttered in Parliament counting of ballot boxes for Members of Parliament, in the past. that they must be counted at the same place with those for Councillors. He is saying we should not count them MR SPEAKER: That is not the issue Honourable at different places or we should cut the long distance by Member. The issue is the movement of the Motion, we counting them at the same place. All the reasons that are not questioning the validity of the Motion. were advanced for doing that indicated that it is quiet MR KEORAPETSE: I am amenable to further counsel. challenging to because it takes long before releasing results. You will realise that ever since 1999 elections, MR SPEAKER: It is a procedural issue, it is whether we had different Motions which indicate that people are when you are doing the Second Reading of a Bill, you suspicious on the basis that we have long queues ever can then interrupt that and come with a Motion. It has since we started using the ballot paper. We then tried nothing to do with that Bill, you can interrupt what is on by all means possible to assess and provide solutions to the Order Paper. these things.

MR KEORAPETSE: Like I said, I am amenable to In that manner, they advanced reasons which include further the counsel. the ones by Honourable Saleshando, that the issue is

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not about counting ballot boxes. For example; if you that in the right forms, EVMs the way we have observed consider that some constituencies like Okavango, them in Namibia and in the State of Tamil Nadu had Honourable Kapinga’s constituency, have a ward no immediate problems that we spotted.” Which means called Gani-Nxaunxau if I am not mistaken, it is many he concurred that there is nothing much which was kilometres away. In order to go to this ward, one has a hindrance after they observed the EVM process. to cover a very long distance before reaching many Therefore, I believe perhaps it is time for Honourable areas where ballot boxes are collected and transported Saleshando to talk holistically about the future of our to a central place, where ballot boxes for Members elections. We should start by citing a tool which will of Parliament are going to be counted. This means it assist us to lay our suspicions to rest as we suspected that cannot be regarded as a valid reason because we are still our results took a long time to be announced. Therefore, going to collect ballot boxes from the wards or from one they should clearly state that it is time now to consider side of the wards to the other side which is regarded as a the EVM more so that they once complained about the central place where they are going to be counted. In that audit trail. That audit trail was later included in the Bill manner, I believe all the reasons including those from which was tabled by Honourable Molale while he was other members that, no one guards these helicopters. a Minister for Presidential Affairs. It was Honourable ...(Silence)... Honourable Keorapetse mentioned that Keorapetse’s suggestion which he cited while in India there is what is called change quarter but he did not that it might work. If there is a gap it can be highlighted explain what he means by that. He mentioned that he after elections therefore, I do not believe we should believes these change quarters are taking place, it is only work on outdated systems. Manual systems should be that they bring about mishaps to our current procedure reduced during elections because that is Honourable in terms of trusting that everything is done accordingly. Saleshando’s major complaint. Therefore, he should be clear so that we discuss it as this House and take I wanted to highlight that all reasons given support responsibility that beyond us, there will be others who usage of the Electronic Voting Machine (EVM). They will be interested in this system and it will also close indicate that if we can use the EVM, it is going to solve gaps in our electoral system. Therefore, I steadfastly say, most of our challenges and like they said, we are going much as they appreciate that as Botswana Democratic to move forward. As members of Parliament who are in Party (BDP), we have been practicing democratic this House, we are expected to come up with Bills which ideals, inner party democracy which I thought they were are going to last for a long time. We are not supposed highlighting, I am happy that they acknowledged us. to behave like a father who tells their child to buy them We also see gaps and we are reviewing ourselves as the a patch to fix his old trouser rather than letting his buy party to see what can serve us well and contribute to the a new pair of trousers. The trouser is going to be worn brighter future and being more transparent, there should out and the only thing left will be that patch. At the end be no raised suspicions that so and so took the box he/ of the day, they will have to purchase new trousers so I she tampered with the outcome of the results. believe we have to heed their advice. It shows that their arguments are in favour of Electronic Voting Machine Mr Speaker, I therefore believe that all these excuses can (EVM). If they are now open-minded and they concur be put to rest. We all embrace the Motion but we say you that it is now time to introduce the EVM, they should should amend it and start focusing on the future. I do not openly say so as some did when concurring. Those think your suspicions will still exist. The reasons you who were sent by their parties to observe the EVM presented Honourable Saleshando that there is a delay process in other countries concurred with it. I will quote and there are suspicions that there is tampering with Honourable Keorapetse’s statement from the Hansard, the boxes, well we know the every party representative th Tuesday 9 August 2016. If you allow me to quote Mr is allowed to put measures in place to ensure that the Speaker… boxes are not tampered with. You presented reasons that you do not have vehicles to follow the boxes or the MR SPEAKER: Please do. same resources as those of other parties, well no one MR BALOPI: Honourable Keorapetse said, “there is a can follow an EVM, there will be no need for vehicles Setswana dictum that mashi a kgomo ke tswa thobeng to follow it all it needs is security. The system has no ke le phepa, selabe se tla le motsaya kgamelo (which gaps such that at the end of the day, one might suspect means that something starts off good but it is messed up that he/she was cheated as a candidate. With that being by those who use it.)” He continued to say, “meaning said Mr Speaker, I do not support this Motion. I hope

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Honourable Saleshando will regroup and redraft it so thereafter submit the numbers to the counting centre of that it can benefit us in the long run. Thank you. the constituency which is Madiba Senior Secondary as usual. I do not see any danger in this system. MR TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): Thank you very much Honourable Speaker. Let me also This system Mr Speaker, let me tell you, I have been stand to support the Motion tabled by Leader of the a candidate in elections a lot of times. I have been a Opposition, Honourable Dumelang Saleshando. First candidate three times and I won on the third attempt. let me comment on Honourable Balopi’s debate; I can I realised that there is still a gap. If you take for clearly see that he is selling the EVM to Parliament but example elections; you will find the box for Member we should reject it right from the word go. I noticed of Parliament and Councillor close to each other and recently during the Committee of Supply that it seems unfortunately the Councillor vote ends up end being in like you are automating the voter registration, election the box of Member of Parliament and vice versa. These management system and records keeping, so, clearly it things happen at ward level. So if you count these votes shows that Government wants to introduce the EVM and at ward level, these discrepancies can be easily solved. I clearly hear that it is Honourable Balopi’s argument. There should be no spoilt vote simply because a person He is misquoting and trying to create a misinformed inserted a ballot paper in a wrong box. I think this is position of Honourable Keorapetse that we embrace a good initiative Mr Speaker. Furthermore recounting; audit trail. We do not accept it no matter the form. Audit if there is a complaint that votes were not properly trail does not mean anything. It is auditing and trailing, counted, it is easier to deal with one ward rather than already predicts elections. We do not want the EVM in dealing with all the eight wards at Mahalapye West. any form or whatsoever. If a recount is required at Madiba, it will be a smaller recount, smaller verification and everything will be so Let me now focus my debate on the Bill as proposed perfect and clear Mr Speaker. I do not know where it today. Mr Speaker, I am quite shocked as to how our confuses members of the Botswana Democratic Party. counterparts from the Botswana Democratic Party are Recently Honourable Kgafela misled this House saying; debating this Bill. I am not sure if you know of a bird no, it will take away the right of the candidate to see called the weaver, if you remove its nest it will become the votes being counted. Come on, we know, we are very aggressive. So the BDP members become aggressive politicians. The law itself dictates that there should be a when a Motion to amend the electoral system so that polling agent. The law allows for a counting agent. We it becomes transparent for the benefit of the country is can have counting agents in all the eight wards as I gave tabled. They become very aggressive like a bird which an example about Mahalapye West. It is nothing that can just laid eggs on its nest. I wonder if they are banking confuse a Motswana, it is just that we give Counting on this system so that they can cheat during elections Agents powers all the time. There is no way you can and let the ballot boxes travel for a long distance. I am run elections on your own. Just like polling stations surprised but in my view, this is straight forward. It is at Mahalapye, at first they were 51, and now they are a decentralisation measure Honourable Speaker. We 48. There is no way I can stay in those places at the are decentralising the voting and the counting of ballot same time, I am assisted by people I work with, unless papers and it is very clear to me because our wish is for they want to tell me they do not trust the people they counting to be done at the polling stations. Leader of work with. I trust the people I work with, they carry the Opposition totally understands that there are other those boxes and every now and then, they tell me that areas where counting cannot be carried out, so boxes are they spend the whole day there as election observers. then transported to where the ward or district counting Sometimes when they take these boxes, they leave us is done. We should transport all these boxes there, it is there, telling us that the law does not say we should a short distance and it is a command centre within a provide them with transport, and as a cohort that has ward. There will be counting of both the Councillor and spent the day with the ballot papers, which has seen Member of Parliament votes. After they are counted, what has been happening… there will be a centralised constituency counting centre not necessarily for counting but receiving already MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND counted ballots at wards. For example, at Mahalapye HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR KGAFELA): there are eight wards, it means at Madiba there will Clarification. Let me thank Honourable Member. be counting of votes for Member of Parliament and I wanted to ask him that the law that he said I am

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misleading the House with, does it not indicate that as are Red-billed Queleas when their nest that has eggs in an election candidate or your agent, you can be there it, is attacked. I wonder what it is that they are hiding in when the ballots are counted? I am considering the fact regards to this issue because it is clear, and it is in line that it says you or your agent. Does it not state that, or with international laws which talk about the system of is it required that you must have an agent at all times? good elections that are conducted properly.

MR TSHERE: Thank you Honourable Kgafela. That is Mr Speaker I thank you and let me stop here. what I was saying that the law does not mean that you have to be there. No, the law empowers your agent quite MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you Mr adequately. He can even call for recounts. Then you say Speaker and good morning. Mr Speaker, I would like no, you are the only one who can call for a recount and to thank you for giving me the opportunity to comment so on; that is misleading the House. on the Motion by Leader of the Opposition, Honourable Dumelang Saleshando, in which he is asking for the Honourable Mthimkhulu said we will be amending amendment to the Electoral Act to allow for counting of the law because it involves the Constitution, but a few ballots at the polling stations, or wards. Mr Speaker, a days ago Learned Parliamentary Counsel (PC) in this few days ago we were here again and during Honourable House explained that there is nowhere it involves the Boko’s debate, he was also talking about another Constitution. He then says the Constitution states that it amendment to the Electoral Act. Honourable Boko was should be at the constituency, as if that constituency is more focused on Independent Electoral Commission not in the wards; or the ward is not in that constituency. (IEC). Mr Speaker for this thing to continue, it indicates Even if it can be at Madiba, it is still within the that in the Opposition party of Umbrella for Democratic constituency of Mahalapye West. If you want us to Change (UDC), the right hand does not know what amend the law so that it can say ward, no, that will not the left hand is doing. They are the ones who always be necessary Honourable Member. I am wondering why keep us here debating about what they call a piecemeal you cannot understand this simple issue. approach to laws. We are here, people are talking about the same law and every one of them came with their You also said that now we will be changing the law own Motion of how they want this law to be amended. that states that there should be stickers, they should be Like I am saying that this indicates the chaos that is locked and so on, those things do not matter. We still there at the opposition party of UDC, it is still ongoing. have to lock, secure, and put a tracking device like we Botswana Congress Party (BPC) have a way they want have been doing on our ballot boxes. When they leave to make themselves better, and the Botswana National from a Kgotla in Tidimalo, for example, and they are Front (BNF), also have a way they want to make going to be counted at Cedric Primary School, I still themselves better. This is just an extension of what is put a seal there. It is not that it prevents anything. It happening within the Opposition Party cloth. One day will go. I am saying the principle behind this, which Advocate Duma Boko on the other hand makes this is an international practice, is that these ballots can be pronouncement, the next day Leader of the Opposition counted where the elections were conducted. So since in Parliament Honourable Dumelang Saleshando says we understand that it will not be possible in a number of something else. So we cannot keep on using Parliament places, that is why Leader of the Opposition is saying, to be an extension of the conflicts at UDC. let us bring it to the ward headquarters, and then we hold them there. Then we can be able to contain a problem Mr Speaker, my problem with this Motion is that, firstly which is decentralised, not where we have a centralised let me say I do not agree with it because it has many one, just like we heard others say that you can sit on top of complicated issues. In essence, it seems okay but what the box and it cannot be counted. That is why managing is confusing or what raises a red flag is that when you well over 51 boxes over two nights is cumbersome Mr deeply analyse it, for example... Speaker. I think this law is on the right track, which can help us if our wish as Batswana, is to have clear and MR SALESHANDO: Point of order. Thank you Mr transparent elections. We are not trying to move away Speaker. Last week you made a ruling that you will not from the traditional way of voting, we are still going to allow anyone in Parliament to make insinuations and bring laws here, which will address all the things that general statements that are not in line with what is being are associated with the elections, not whereby when we discussed. In this case, Honourable Healy of Gaborone now talk about it, these men and women argue as if they Central, says I often make statements in Parliament

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saying one thing, then Mr Duma Boko makes other (inaudible)…, the response from your colleagues is that contradicting statements which are not in line with what now you are talking about something else rather than the the party is saying. I am pleading with him to tell me Electoral Bill. what I have said which goes against the leadership of the party I am a member of, or what is not in line with the MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: No, Mr intentions of the UDC party, which I am representing in Chairperson… Parliament? What is it that he says I spoke about which MR SPEAKER: I know that you said you were is contradictory? If there is not any, he should withdraw responding to him. his statement and get back to today’s topic, because a ruling has been made on insinuations similar to the one HONOURABLE MEMBER: That is just utter Honourable Healy is making. pettiness to the last degree.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Healy, are you admitting? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wynter let them write to you first. Just keep quiet. MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you Mr Speaker. Yes, I did. Mr Speaker, I will give an example MR SPEAKER: Those answers are completely with the just ended 2019 election results. Advocate deviating from the Electoral Bill which we have been Duma Boko and the BNF wholeheartedly indicated discussing. My own view is that unless people are really that they do not accept the results but many activists itching and do not mind wasting more time, they would of the BNF indicated that Leader of the Opposition, better ask Honourable Healy, the Bill before us … Honourable Saleshando, does not know where he (Inaudible)…to say one is out of order when they say belongs because when they are still dealing with issues this, will not take us anywhere on this Bill because it is of complaining about how the elections were conducted, straight for us. he was taking pictures at the inauguration; in fact, he HONOURABLE MEMBER: I have a further point of agreed with the election results they were doubting order sir. had the issue at courts. They said this man really has the thirst to be back in Parliament. He has a long time MR SPEAKER: I know. out of Parliament, so his excitement is too much to the extent that even before we solve the issues as a pact of HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yes. UDC, he is already endorsing those people. So, that is MR SPEAKER: I know you do. Dr Gobotswang has a an example. There are many of them. procedure also. A few day ago he approached Secretary General of the LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) and the Chairman SALESHANDO): Point of order. Mr Chairperson, of the BDP, requesting that there should be a special my point remains, consistently the ruling you made arrangement in regards to the debts of those who had last week, you cannot come here and say you once did cases of unfair elections at courts, and requested that this. I asked him to say what I said in Parliament, he the issue be dealt with in private. The members of the has not done that. Instead, he goes off topic and picks party he is representing were furious asking where he unimportant points saying people were calling me an gets the permission to meet the Domkrag in secret, opportunist. I am not aware of anyone who called me trying to settle this issue. Right now, they are lamenting an opportunist. Mr Chairperson, please make a ruling for the one I contested with in Gaborone Central, that on what Honourable Healy said, he should withdraw the Botswana Congress Party (BCP) wants to assist her the statement he is making which is not true, where he alone, yet they know that issues of elections affect the wants me to go against the party I am representing. That collective, the BCP is representing their own candidate was my objection. He said that. Now when he is asked alone, they are saying they are going to assist her. to point out where I went against my party, he talks I would like to come back to the issue at hand sir, about other people outside Parliament, whom he says he because those are numerous, we might… cannot mention by name.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, … MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Mr Chairperson, I (inaudible)… I think the wiser thing if you have heard… was saying…

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MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi… Hang on. I said it. That shows that even to them, there is a lack of cohesion because they could have brought something MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Yes sir. which covers all the electoral laws at the same time, rather than having one come with this, and another one MR SPEAKER: I think the point when we reach this with that. To further illustrate that point, I then said, kind of proceeding is that Healy is going to be trying to that is due to the fracas at the Umbrella for Democratic …(inaudible)… up his arguments by making reference Change (UDC), such that one day one leader of the UDC to matters which may have happened or may not have would be saying this, another leader of the UDC… happened for all we know, outside Parliament. We do not have a record on those things, which means that he MR SPEAKER: Honourable Healy! is the only source that we have. The way I understand MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Yes sir. you Honourable Saleshando is that he was implying that you said something in the House… MR SPEAKER: Just freeze the clock. That we understand, I do not think anybody has got a problem MR SALESHANDO: Yes. with that. It is really quite clear about the piecemeal approach. MR SPEAKER: …which is contradicted by something said by other Members or Honourable Boko; the former MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: …(Inaudible)… Member of Parliament (MP)… MR SPEAKER: Sir! MR SALESHANDO: Yes sir. MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Is the clock ticking MR SPEAKER: …what is said in the House also or when we talk about… outside. MR SPEAKER: No! No! We have frozen it. MR SALESHANDO: Yes sir. I want him to state what it is and if he cannot, he must withdraw. MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: I just saw this right now. MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Can I proceed or are we still dealing with him? MR SPEAKER: No, we have frozen the clock.

MR SPEAKER: Yes, you said Honourable Saleshando MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Okay sir. said something in the House… MR SPEAKER: The objection is that, Honourable MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Oh, we are still on Saleshando heard you saying that he said something in that one. Mr Chairperson, what I was saying is that… the House.

MR SPEAKER: …which is contrary to what was said MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: It means we have to by the former MP Advocate Boko. wait for the Hansard Mr Chairperson, because I did not say that. MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Yes sir. MR SPEAKER: You are now saying you did not say he MR SPEAKER: We are saying, what is it that he said spoke in the House. in the House? There is proper …(inaudible)…to that? MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Mr Chairperson, the MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Mr Chairperson, I essence of what I was saying is… take it that you were here, I did not say you said it in Parliament, he says you were listening. Let us not use MR SPEAKER: I am not talking about the essence. his words, you were listening. I did not say you said it in Parliament, he says I said Honourable Boko, the MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Let us wait for the current MP, has brought a Bill. Honourable Saleshando Hansard Mr Chairperson. also brought a Bill; it is about the Electoral Act. So I was saying they always complain about piecemeal approach. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Healy!

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MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Sir. manual. If they somewhat burn wherever they are kept, who are we going to look to? I do not think that point he MR SPEAKER: I am not asking you about the is making holds any water. It is just the same as the one essence or anything. I am telling you now, you were where people are saying people sit on boxes, I think the understood… officials who are tasked with conducting our elections MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: …understanding Mr Mr Chairperson, are much more responsible than that. I Chairperson, are two different things. do not do not think we can say a person can sit on a ballot box, and then the ballots inside would not be counted. MR SPEAKER: I am not asking you to say anything, I Mr Chairperson, this issue of counting the ballots at the am asking you to listen. poll stations…

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: I am listening sir. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mathoothe wants clarification. MR SPEAKER: Yes sir. The problem is that you were understood to mean that Honourable Saleshando said MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: No, my apologies something in the House which was contrary to what was Phuti (duiker: the Bamangwato totem) because we spent said by a member of his party in or outside the House. time talking about other things, so my time is up… You are saying that no, you have not … (Inaudible)… yourself to anything he said in the House, you were MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much. talking about their position as you said, in or outside MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: …. I will not be able the House. to yield. I have a problem with counting there because we MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: That is true Mr have seen in many countries that once the counting has Chairperson. been done, the results would be heard in Bontleng, later in White City Selemela ward will also announce their MR SPEAKER: That is how I understand you to mean results and this system resulted in instances whereby a across your case. Honourable Saleshando says we candidate would think that he or she has won elections should not talk about those things because he says he and when the overall results are tallied you will find that did not say anything in this House which was against that person won in some wards and not the constituency. what was said by your colleague or your colleagues People’s emotions would already be all over the place, anywhere else. seeing that person as the winner. So when you tell them that no, when we tallied the numbers, we found MR SALESHANDO: No, Mr Chairperson, I will bring out that the results were totally different from the first back the Hansard to you because I heard him clearly. results you got, then obviously this system has its own Now he is trying to deviate because he knows he was dangers because it toys with people’s emotions which being petty. I request that we continue, he should be later on results in unrests. We saw these instances in requested to come back to the topic at hand. many countries in our continent, and we cannot mention MR SPEAKER: Yes sir. Honourable Healy, continue names of those countries. I believe that we all saw this with the Electoral Amendment Bill. on many occasions. I cannot see the clock Mr Speaker… Honourable Keorapetse, talked about many issues. MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: I thank you Mr Chairperson. Although he is saying I was being petty, MR SPEAKER: Nine minutes. when I answer back for myself, we will start going MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you. You back and forth, but let us go forth. Mr Chairperson, highlighted that in 1997 Independent Electoral Honourable Tshere was talking about the automation of Commission (IEC) came up with that Bill, they even records and voters roll, depicting it as being somewhat proposed that the voting age should be 18 years, external of a threat. Mr Chairperson, we have to move with voting and other different things. I want to tell him that, times; in everything. Not only in elections, everything is just like back then when they proposed valuable Bills getting automated in the times we are living in. Because which are useful to the nation of Botswana, Botswana Honourable Tshere has some fears about automation, we Democratic Party (BDP) cannot reject them. So you cannot say the whole world should not automate anything already have evidence that when you raise sensible else, and then we have our voters roll and records being ideas, all you have to do is convince us that those

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suggestions can be beneficial to Batswana and we shock us, because every time when there are elections, will execute them. So, do not complain Honourable let me say in Botswana, there are always allegations that Saleshando...(Interruptions!)... elections were rigged, more especially from opposition so this is a not a new thing. After they are defeated HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are playing catch- in every elections, they always suspect that they were up all the time. cheated. I gave an example that I noticed this during MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: It is fine, but it shows the 1989 general elections when I started following that we are accommodative. We are accommodating and elections. After the 1989 general elections, candidates, we will always be accommodative, because you will more especially Botswana National Front (BNF) never govern, so it is important for you to always advise candidates, 10 BNF Parliamentary candidates went to us since we are the ruling party. We have the mandate. the Court of law to air their suspicions and they lost their When you keep on advising us like that, we will end up case at the Courts of Law. They were ordered to pay accepting some of those advises. Domkrag P127,000 and they have not paid it even to date, but they still suspect that they were cheated. So You also talked about the forensic report which was 2019 is almost a replica or repeat of what happened in compiled by O’Sullivan after elections. Honourable, 1989, that elections were rigged and they are still … that report is the same as the report which Umbrella for (Inaudible)… as it was back in 1989, they are still saying Democratic Change (UDC) talked about even during the that elections were rigged. previous elections, Mr Motswaledi’s report. You have this habit of coming up with the reports that will never In my opinion Mr Speaker, the shocking thing is that see the light of day. We are here, you have long chanted when you compare the Bill which is proposed by Leader and preached the people’s court, so go and release this of Opposition in Parliament and the Motion which was report at people’s court. People have long waited for presented by the Member of UDC who is aligned to the evidence which you said you are looking for, there Botswana National Front (BNF) Honourable Boko, are no evidences that elections were rigged, you are just they are basically saying the same thing, they are talking misleading the nation. about elections. They are talking about improving ... Silence... elections because they believe that rigging takes place or that elections are not fair. So one thing that shocks us MR SPEAKER: Unmute yourself, unmute yourself! is why they failed to combine their Motions so that they Issues…(Inaudible)…is just a problem. can be presented by one person. We were informed that this Bill was published way back in December if I am HONOURABLE MEMBER: Maybe you should give not wrong, but Honourable Boko’s Motion was tabled me the floor so that I try. You will go back to him. recently. When he presented this Motion at their caucus, MR SPEAKER: Let us see if he will not ...(Inaudible)… one can wonder why they did not resolve to have Leader of the Opposition’s Bill come first and maybe make an HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!)… amendment to include the issues raised by the Motion. That is what surprises us that why people in the same MR SPEAKER: Let us move on, we will come back party come with different Motions which subsequently to him. point to one thing. What is happening? That is why I MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR think that this Bill and Motion have been brought before MOLAO): Thank you Mr Speaker. I believe that I am Parliament to resolve internal party issues in Umbrella audible. Mr Speaker, let me start by pointing out that I for Democratic Change (UDC). I am not saying that is do not support this Bill. I do not support it, I have been the case, that is my thinking listening to their Motions. listening to the Honourable Members debating, more We know that most of the people who suspected elections especially Members of the Opposition. I was listening irregularities are Botswana National Front (BNF) party to their grievances and thoughts, that they mainly members except for one Botswana Congress Party believe that elections are not free, that there is rigging of (BCP) member but most of the BCP members did not elections in Botswana. That is the main purpose of this query. That is why there is nothing wrong with having Bill, they think that it will stop rigging or their rigging these kind of thoughts. These are thoughts that come to suspicions. I would like to point out that this does not mind when assessing these issues.

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It would maybe make sense if they were saying, after telling Batswana that they won through cheating? ballot boxes are brought in, every ward should do its counting. Right now when they are brought to polling MR SPEAKER: Clarification. stations, ballots are removed from boxes in the presence MR MOLAO: Mr Speaker, time is not on my side I of everyone including observers. Firstly, verification of could be yielding. Have they won through fraud or voters roll is done to say this number of people voted what? Maybe the development that we can make is in this ward. That is what the voters roll indicate and that when ballot boxes arrive at the counting centre for we expect that when we open the box we will find that verification, maybe every ward should count ballots number of ballots in the box. That is done in public for their wards. This will enable the candidate to see with members of all political parties present. Then it is how many people voted for him or her at a certain ward verified that the ballots found in boxes tally with the without grouping them with other wards. I believe that number on the voters roll… is a development that can easily be made. Having ballots MR SPEAKER: Honourable Rakgare is asking for counted at polling stations will result in people declaring clarification. themselves winners before the official declaration as was said by Honourable Healy and it causes confusion. MR MOLAO: I yield but be quick Honourable Member. We have seen these things in other countries. There are countries we know where counting is done at polling MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, stations. SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): Clarification. Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I have observed elections in Zambia Honourable Molao, you are talking about differences and Zimbabwe where they did that and they end up that you suspect that the intention of this Bill is to try to complaining about elections fraud. I do not think we resolve them. Are you aware that on the 4th of January should just take one piece of legislation and change it. this year, one BNF member called Kagiso Thutlwe, who Let us wait for a comprehensive Constitutional review is a former Mayor of Gaborone, and said that Honourable and then we address all of them. It is important for the Saleshando trafficked people from Maun East to Maun candidate to be there so that if he or she has doubts, they West? In your view, do you find it necessary for them can be communicated right there and then. He or she to bring their differences before Parliament? Thank you. should be accorded that opportunity because sometimes our observers cannot ask if you as the candidate accept MR MOLAO: Thank you. That is why I am saying I or does not accept the results. Those things happen. suspect that we are being used as Parliament to resolve Sometimes an individual will accept the results and issues that have got nothing to do with us. That is what afterwards… I am thinking. What I want to say is, the shocking thing is, even when others complain that there is cheating, MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister…(Inaudible)… they are not saying anything about where they won. No MR MOLAO: …does not accept the results. one is saying boxes were changed that is why I won. They are only complaining about where they lost that MR SPEAKER: Dr Gobotswang. they suspect that boxes were changed and new ballots were put inside so that another party can win. That is MR MOLAO: Thank you Mr Speaker. hypocrisy of trying to sow in the minds of Batswana DR GOBOTSWANG (SEFHARE- suspicions that the elections of this country are not free. RAMOKGONAMI): Thank you Mr Speaker. Am I I believe that since we started holding elections in this audible? country, they remain free and fair. There is nothing wrong with making amendments to the system here MR SPEAKER: Yes sir. and there. It is embarrassing that Opposition parties are raising a ruckus right now that the elections of DR GOBOTSWANG: Alright Sir. I also support Leader Botswana were not run properly. This is why we have of the Opposition, Honourable Dumelang Saleshando’s voter apathy. If voter fraud always crops up, people end Bill. I had thought we would take 15 minutes debating up wondering why they should keep voting. Now they this Bill and unanimously agree on it. I am surprised should be questioned that where they won, are they that it took this long. He is requesting that Parliamentary

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votes be counted where Councillor votes are counted. DR GOBOTSWANG: Mr Speaker, let me proceed up What is the problem with that? We had thought by now to the end because I have already run out of time. we would be counting our votes at polling stations. Looking at the challenges we are facing, we have to We are still waiting for answers and clarifications to compromise and say, let us count where Councillors’ issues and rumours of change quota; we really want to votes are counted. hear more about it. Honourable Members, the challenges listed by the Leader of the Opposition (LOO) have I am surprised by what Honourable Balopi said on EVMs affected all of us who have been sitting for elections. I because right now we have witnessed what technology was shocked when I heard that in areas like Kgalagadi, can do through virtual Parliament. There is an outcry. they still cover a distance of 100 km, 400 km and 200 The complaints are innumerable. Some are complaining km, I thought they were going to support this Motion, that they are muted in virtual Parliament. Right now but I was really shocked to hear that ballot boxes cover a Parliament has been off. Last time we were forced to distance of 100 or 200 km before reaching the centre. In knock off because technology failed. I am surprised that that manner, it is possible for them to have an accident or get hijacked. Honourable Balopi after all these experiences, he can come and deliberate that we need an EVM or another Members of Domkrag you have been complaining on machine to trust that it can run our elections efficiently. the basis that many people, including foreigners were Really Honourable Members! Are you serious about interested in 2019 elections, you were also shocked and the future and security of this country or you want to therefore wanted to know why they were interested in jeopardise it? Honourable Member, just forget about the them. You suspected that they might disturb the flow of EVM. Continue using all the methods which it is known our elections but under those circumstances, you felt it that you have used. It was even captured on newspapers was just fine for a ballot box to travel a distance of about that you used extraordinary methods and forget about 200km in order to reach the polling station. Why are the EVM. you so hypocritical at this level members of Domkrag? The most important thing is to clear doubts. We cannot Who bewitched you such that they cannot cancel the hold elections of which there are suspicions and spell that they cast on you; or is that person no more? complaints about their system yet we refuse to correct I suspect that witch is dead. The spell that they cast on that. Right now there is a constituency where it is said you is a serious one. ballots are swapped. This is common in all elections where we hear that ballots are swapped on the way. Another issue which we all know very well is fatigue. Official vehicles run away with boxes and swap them It is torture for those who count our ballot boxes. How on the way. This issue exists. do you count for two days without resting? It is quite possible to make mistakes. The number of our voters in At Sefhare-Ramokgonami, a box was collected from other countries is equal to a number of people we have Borotsi in 2014, less than 1km to the centre, it took 1 in a single constituency. Therefore, we take two days to hour. After that... count. So members of Domkrag see nothing wrong with that. Is this thing not witchcraft? How do we explain MR LUCAS: Elucidation. I am elucidating on the this kind of situation? So these are some of the shocking issue of the Electronic Voting Machine (EVM), that things. the Honourable is telling the truth, people always have suspicions wherever technology is concerned. Last time There is yet another issue where you claim that in the the Minister of Office of the President, Honourable absence of a Member of Parliament (MP) at the centre, Morwaeng mentioned that people are somehow ballots have to be counted in a different place. On the sabotaged by this technology. He is telling the truth, let other hand, you claim that the President is a candidate, us completely cancel the EVM because it may end up he is interested in the electoral system and he wants to causing conflicts in our country. Thank you very much. know about what transpires during elections. If that is the case, who is representing the President in so many DR GOBOTSWANG: Thank you. We are still waiting polling stations; a total of 57 polling stations? for... Honourable Members, you claim that this Bill does not MR SPEAKER: Honourable ...(inaudible)… is asking correspond to the one brought by Honourable Yandani for clarification.

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Boko. The idea by Honourable Yandani Boko is a They claim that there is serious conflict within UDC but Motion which require us to review our Electoral Act so it is actually at Domkrag. They say you fail to defend that Independent Electoral Commission (IEC) can be the President. On that note, just be honest, do not be independent. This one says, let us amend the clause which destructed by Cabinet reshuffle which I do not know seeks for counting of all ballots where the ballots for when it is going to be done. It seems like it is the one councillors are counted. What confuses you? Moreover, which disturb our flow, it is blinding people. You can you want us to do things in a piecemeal manner, why tell from what members say when they take the floor, not do it holistically? I do not understand what confuses they think maybe they might benefit from it. Therefore, you because we are waiting for Constitutional Review. we want to raise it to the President ... (interruption)... That is why we were criticising you when you brought of Cabinet reshuffle so that people can think straight. an amendment of the Constitution, when you brought Thank you Mr Speaker. the floor crossing Bill on the basis that we are waiting for Constitutional Review. Right now we are talking MR SPEAKER: His Honour the Vice President. about the Electoral Act, all we want is to amend a single DR GOBOTSWANG: Mr Speaker, have I run out of clause from it. It has nothing to do with the Constitution. time? Honourable Kgafela, make it a point to elaborate these issues to them because they lack understanding. It MR SPEAKER: Yes sir. seems like they are confused by issues of the Act and Constitution. Members like Honourable Healy, they get HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me also lost to a point where they say pointless things. When he respond. The Honourable Members have been agreeing has nothing else to say, he will mention Comrade Boko from all the sides of the House, the Honourable Member or the President of Umbrella for Democratic Change who has just debated also agreed that it is not necessary (UDC) in his issues. for us to spend a long time debating this issue. It is They also pointed out that the security provided where quite a simple, straight forward issue which we have to Councillors are elected is not enough for a Member disapprove without hesitation because we prioritised it of Parliament. What is the story really? What do you over other important issues. expect us to do when you say it does not matter even if Mr Speaker, this is the staccato that we normally talk there is confusion or if people steal their ballot boxes for about. If at all there is anything like staccato, there is councillors, that is what you are saying Domkrag right? nothing that surpasses this one Mr Speaker. Staccato What is wrong with you? No Honourable Members, be refers to an uproar. That is, different noises made sharp serious and say practical things. at different points which cannot be joined together. So, Another one which shocked me says, why do members we have to finalise this issue as soon as possible. of Domkrag want ballot boxes to be counted at the We are saying, let us not bring many unnecessary polling stations? You mentioned that members of issues where we claim that this and that happened in Domkrag hold primaries for leisure; it is not a serious such and such a ward. Issues that cause uproars in exercise. Really? We have been assuming that you relation to election of MPs. Firstly, you will realise appoint serious people through a serious procedure that those who claim that these villages are far, they so that you can form a Government, only to find out do not know anything about other wards which are in that you are playing games? That is what you told the rural areas. A few days back, I gave an example about whole world, that primaries of Domkrag are nothing Makalamabedi and Phuduhudu ward. From Phuduhudu serious, that you are just passing time. Why do you opt ward to Makalamabedi, it is still a distance. There is still to not use the Electronic Voting Machine (EVM); why a distance at the wards. I do not know what the danger not experiment it in your party? Truly I tell you, there of transporting votes for Member of Parliament is, what is no member of Domkrag who can support usage of risk has it ever posed when travelling. the EVM. I am betting with all the goats that I have, Honourable Balopi, there is no member of Domkrag Honourable Members have revealed that it is important who can support usage of the EVM in the elections of that during counting the candidate is the one with Domkrag. Just experiment with it so that we can see authority to accept or reject the results. The candidate is how it operates. the one asked so I do not know how they are going to be

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asked if there is counting all over the wards. Member. I have more experience than him in Parliament so I know those wards, he cannot try to teach me. The returning officer; it means we are going to have quite a number of returning officers. There is going to Let me continue Mr Chairperson and indicate… be plenty of manpower of returning officers required because we only have a constituency returning officer. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Makwinja wants elucidation. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Hikuama stands on a point of procedure. MR TSOGWANE: Who is it?

MR TSOGWANE: Allow him to raise his procedure MR SPEAKER: Honourable Makwinja. Mr Chairperson. MR TSOGWANE: Okay, allow her, she should be HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, it is Kekgonegile quick. Mr Chairperson. ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION MR SPEAKER: Oh! Honourable Kekgonegile. (MS MAKWINJA): Elucidation. Thank you Mr Honourable Hikuama is correction. Chairperson, thank you Your Honour. I want to elucidate on the point that the candidate should be present to MR KEKGONEGILE: Procedure. Thank you Mr accept or reject the results. Others leave during counting Chairperson, if we allow the Vice President (VP) to when they see that numbers are not working in their continue with the statement he made, it might seem favour. After counting when candidates are asked if like we are not an authentic Parliament. He is not they accept or reject results, the person is not present telling the truth when he alludes that Makalamabedi after that they go to court claiming that they have been and Phuduhudu is one ward. We actually do not blame cheated. Thank you. him for not knowing his villages because he has long relocated to Gaborone. Makalamabedi is a different MR SPEAKER: Freeze the clock. There is a point of ward so is Phuduhudu ward. My point is… order by Honourable Mmolotsi.

MR SPEAKER: That would be a correction. There is HONOURABLE MEMBER: Honourable Makwinja, nothing procedural about that. is that what they did in Gaborone Central?

MR TSOGWANE: Indeed Mr Chairperson. MR MMOLOTSI: Point of order. Thank you Mr Chairperson. I think on the point the Vice President MR KEKGONEGILE: No, he is misleading the raised that a candidate is the only one who can ask for nation. recount. I think he is misleading Parliament because MR SPEAKER: There is nothing procedural about even the agent I am sending, if he has doubts, he should that. ask for a recount. MR TSOGWANE: Thank you Mr Chairperson. It is MR TSOGWANE: There is no procedure. He should a correction, it is not a point of order. He also derives go and learn about constituencies as well, he does know authority from the candidate. You cannot become a his ward. If the ward is not called that, it is not called but polling agent without being given authority, it is just a the wards affected in that village is Makalamabedi and way of passing time because at the end of the day the Phuduhudu, Makalamabedi of North West. He does not person who is going to accept results is the candidate. know which Makalamabedi I am referring to. There is nothing out of order.

MR KEKGONEGILE: This person is not telling the Mr Chairperson, I am surprised by the arguments truth Mr Chairperson, we cannot allow him to continue relayed by members of the opposition, they argue that to do so, these are different wards. we should adopt the system of Botswana Democratic MR TSOGWANE: Mr Chairperson, leave this staccato Party. Since when? Do they not have primaries? Why it will waste your time, let us continue with serious do they not give an example about themselves that at issues. The staccato is the one we are talking about; Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC) this is our turmoil. So he should go and learn his wards, he is a new system? Why are they comparing this with the internal

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system of Botswana Democratic Party? Since when at UDC. That is where the question is. Stop rushing have they agreed that Botswana Democratic Party’s to say the Botswana Democratic Party system should system is flawless? They should tell us how they are be adopted. We recently resolved a concern, as the going to execute the primaries at UDC. They cannot Botswana Democratic Party, of floor crossing. Being say it because it is a problem, they do not want to tell dishonest and crossing the floor with people’s votes. Batswana what is happening. One just assume positions, there is no inner party democracy. HONOURABLE MEMBER: You have recruited people. Thank you Honourable Members for your MR TSOGWANE: The other issue next on the agenda acknowledgement that Botswana Democratic Party’s is voter trafficking. I thought they would talk about voter system is flawless. Our argument is, these are national trafficking but they are quiet. I do not know why they elections, they are not for the Botswana Democratic are not offering suggestions on how to combat voter Party, we should conduct them according to the public trafficking which when it is a week before registration interest. closes, there will a lot of people coming to register at small remote areas. Let us discuss voter trafficking and MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)… see how we can combat it, that is the most important issue not the suggestion to count at polling stations. There MR TSOGWANE: Sir! has been no problems encountered when votes were counted at the centres. So let us discuss issues which MR SPEAKER: Honourable Healy is asking for an will benefit the people and our voters Mr Chairperson, elucidation. issues such as voter trafficking. Transporting people to register at wrong areas, and people finding themselves MR TSOGWANE: There is an issue I want to raise. stranded wondering where they can get food, they do MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Elucidation. Thank not even know which nearest tuck shop is close to the polling stations. you. I will be very quick. To buttress your point Your Honour, all the Honourable Members here including the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mmolotsi is asking for a lady I was contesting with at Gaborone Central, none of point of order. them went through primary elections, they were simply MR TSOGWANE: Yes. appointed. They know nothing about having primary elections. MR MMOLOTSI: Point of order. Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Chairperson, I think His Honour the HONOURABLE MEMBER: How does it relate with Vice President in provoking those who crossed the floor the amendment? while he personally convinced some to cross the floor from opposition to the Botswana Democratic Party… MR TSOGWANE: It relates to the amendment because you allude that the same system adopted at Botswana HONOURABLE MEMBER: Hey, that is not order. Democratic Party should be implemented here. We are MR MMOLOTSI: …after doing that he provokes arguing that the UDC system should be adopted. Mr them, that is not procedural in Parliament. We should Chairperson, am I muted now? They have muted. not provoke each other.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: We can hear you Your MR SPEAKER: So what is out of order? Honour. MR MMOLOTSI: Provoking others, you swap others HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are not muted, you then you provoke them. It is out of order. are audible. MR SPEAKER: Which order? MR TSOGWANE: No, they have muted me, the screen is dark. HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are out of order yourself. MR SPEAKER: I can hear and see you. MR SPEAKER: Continue VP. MR TSOGWANE: Thank you Mr Chairperson. We are saying, cite an example regarding the system adopted MR TSOGWANE: Mr Chairperson, the poor person

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was not lucky enough, he is the one who wanted to be requests that when the box from Vumbura arrives, let it swapped. I do not know why these two people could be announced that the box has arrived and people have have not swapped him. I know the reason why they did seen it. That did not happen Mr Speaker. This issue that not do that, it is because he wanted to help them. there were doubts that there was cheating in the elections, doubts that election boxes are not handled properly, is Mr Chairperson, how many minutes am I left with so the one that will cause unrests in Botswana if we are that I can see if I cannot get to… not careful. There are no water cannons that maybe you MR SPEAKER:: One minute. can use to oppress people, no police officers, even if you can hire them in large numbers, that can stop the MR TSOGWANE: Okay, one minute. Mr Speaker, like people when they say they are fed-up with this system. I have been saying, let us not confuse issues, they are We are getting to that situation whereby people will straightforward and we have many issues. Some have show you that they no longer like the way their elections said that the issue of cheating is something that they are conducted. If you want to see that reasoning is non- will complain about every day. Ballots changed and existent, people address things haphazardly and do not holes were punched on them, and we still agree that know what they can say. They will say, if you say you something should be done. So I do not know how long were cheated, how come you won the elections. That is we are going to keep on agreeing with many things… not something that should be said by someone who is in (Inaudible)…then after the elections people say they their right senses. At Malawi the elections were rigged have been cheated, that is not a good thing for the peace but some of the Opposition members won the elections, of a country. Some were saying this issue did not go and it was evident that there was cheating whereas some to courts. This was… (Inaudible)… embarrassing. Let of the Opposition members won the elections. So I do me give you an example with Boteti, where someone not know what kind of cheating it is, which can only just came and said a police officer was there and he left be indicated and agreed that it happened when all the with a box and went outside during voting, how can that Opposition members have lost the elections, I do not happen? And some words, God helped us for it not to understand what kind of logic is that…(Interruptions!)… continue to an extent that reasons had to be provided. That is the reason why our children are failing this much Some reasons are quite an embarrassment, there were because they are led by a Minister who thinks this way. no reasons. We do not know about other constituencies Who wants an elucidation, Honourable Keorapetse? but in our area there were no reasons... (Inaudible)… Yes, go on. he did not know what he was saying and everyone was surprised that is this really what is said to have happened. MR KEORAPETSE: I am saying even on the Botswana Democratic Party elections, have you ever MR SPEAKER: His Honour the Vice President, (VP) seen a situation whereby when Honourable Kgathi says your time is up! he has been cheated at Bobonong then it is said, that means that even the elections for Honourable Rakgare MR TSOGWANE: Thank you. will be conducted again, and when Mr Masimolole says he has been cheated at Mogoditshane it is then said that MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you very much even the elections for Vice President will be conducted Mr Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to comment again. Many of Domkrag elections have been conducted in this issue. I support this Motion by Honourable again in regards to those who doubted that they have Saleshando. In my constituency Mr Speaker, election been cheated at constituencies like that of Honourable results took three days to be announced. They were the Monnakgotla and Honourable Rakgare, and others, last ones to be announced in Botswana. People were were they conducted again all over the country? waiting for them all over the country wondering if they will make it. So I want a system that will not stress MR KAPINGA: That is an indication that they have no people like in 2019 when people were waiting to hear reasons, they are just addressing issues haphazardly and whether they have won or not. they do not know what to say.

Mr Speaker, there is a polling station at my constituency MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR called Vumbura, which its box was not known when it MOLAO): Point of order Honourable Molao. Mr arrived at the counting centre. This was in spite of the Speaker, thank you. Honourable Member who is on the fact that my election agent told the returning officer he floor is out of order because he is making insinuations

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even with the example he gave of Malawi, as they interference, especially from the intelligence service were contesting Presidential elections, there were no of this country. We cannot trust the IEC with the EVM other Presidential candidates who won, the party won which is subject to manipulation. So we completely and there was one President. So what he is saying is reject it, it is not an alternative, until we have institutions embarrassingly not true. He should tell people the truth we can trust. The ones that are there like Independent and not use Parliament to mislead people. Even when Electoral Commission (IEC), Directorate of Intelligence the elections were conducted again, they only conducted and Security (DIS), we do not trust them because they the Presidency elections, not Members of Parliament. ... have shown us they are not doing their job the way we (Interruptions!)... expect them to. The way the law has designated them those jobs. MR SPEAKER: I see Honourable Minister are you correcting? As a Member of Parliament Mr Speaker, it is not necessary to always be everywhere when the boxes are MR KAPINGA: Yes, even if they are Presidential counted. When my ballots were counted, I was not at elections. If they were Presidential elections, you were the polling station, I went there on the last hour because soon going to say you were cheated whereas you were I knew I had responsible observers who also had the voted for by so many people who one will wonder experience to do this job... where they came from. Cheating is not supposed to be 100 per cent, you can cheat in two constituencies or 10 MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moatlhodi wants to constituencies, but it is still cheating. It is not a matter of correct you. saying but you won in other constituencies, so where do you say there was cheating. There was election rigging MR KAPINGA: Honourable who? and we want that situation to be rectified. What we are MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moatlhodi. saying today is that, let the boxes for Parliamentary elections be counted at the centre for Councillors... MR KAPINGA: No, I cannot yield for that one.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Greeff wants clarification? HONOURABLE MEMBER: But you are misleading Parliament. MR KAPINGA: No, there is no time Mr Speaker. Let the boxes for Members of Parliament be counted where MR KAPINGA: I once yielded for you and you have the ones for Councillors are counted. There is also your own problems. security where the ballots for Councillors are counted. Observers are always there on behalf of the Councillor. HONOURABLE MEMBER: You also refused to The one who observed for me at Vumbura is the one yield for me Honourable Kapinga. who can observe for me at Beetsha when my box for MR KAPINGA: I said it is not necessary for the Councillor is being counted. This thing does not require candidate to be at the polling station or where the any increase of resources at all. It will also result in a counting will be taking place to see the whole process reduction of resources that are needed to transport boxes for themselves. One would have their observers, those from Vumbura which crosses the river at Okavango, to he or she would have appointed, knowing that these Shakawe Senior Secondary School on the third day, people have experience in observing the counting of when people have long been anxious for the election ballots and the electoral process. They do not need to be results to be announced. there in person. Mr Speaker, I support the amendment Mr Speaker, people want the election results to be as presented by Honourable Saleshando that they should announced quickly and the solution is not whereby be counted where those for councillors are counted. The we get out of this situation we are in, and we go to an results will then be taken to the constituency collation extreme by using an Electronic Voting Machine (EVM) centre, which will compile all the ballots, and then it which is not reliable. It is not reliable and it is going would be announced who won the parliamentary seat. to be used by an Electoral Commission that does not There is nothing that is messed up here. There is nothing trust it. They cannot trust it because everyone interferes that can confuse anyone and there is nothing that can with it. 2019 elections indicated that there was a lot of put the safety of the country in jeopardy as others claim.

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Continuing with the current process, whereby the results I will point out one thing. You will realise that the come after three days in Okavango for example, is what ruling party, in their opposing, they tried to impress the gives rise to uncertainty in Botswana. I rest my case Mr thoughts that the opposition is not thinking properly. Speaker. The Vice President was even excited by a new word staccato, that in our camp there is a staccato. That there MR SPEAKER: Honourable Hikuama. is a fracas, and they do not know where we are getting HONOURABLE MEMBER: Your Excellency, have these things from. I want to take you one-step back, that you switched off? in the electoral process, there are universally accepted principles. To us, the point I want to address is, ‘where MR SPEAKER: Hang on! Hang on! You spoke last should the counting take place?’ When you look at the time Honourable Hikuama. Southern African Development Community (SADC) 2004 Principles and Guidelines Governing Democratic MR HIKUAMA: Sorry, Mr Speaker. It means it is Elections, which Domkrag Government is a signatory when I was seeking clarification earlier. I did not raise to, saying they agree with them, when the members of my hand to debate. Domkrag attended conferences, they signed and agreed MR SPEAKER: Yes sir. to the SADC 2004 Principles and Guidelines Governing Democratic Elections. What do they have to say? They HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, there are saying the counting should take place where the seems to be technological glitches; it seems I was still elections took place. It is not the opposition saying this; speaking, and now when I come back it says my time SADC is the one saying this. Domkrag signed for those is up. principles. When you go to the SADC Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF), it also has the Norms and Standards HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are not saying for Elections in the SADC Region. These Norms and anything. Standards Mr Speaker, I have them here with me. MR SPEAKER: You time was up. Honourable Botswana has signed for these Norms and Standards of Saleshando, it is time for you to reply to the debate. the SADC-PF. So what do they have to say? On page 17, paragraph number 11, it reads, “the counting of votes HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… should be done at the polling station.” The Government of Botswana has agreed to them. The reason why HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Laughter!)… Honourable Gobotswang was asking whether this was HONOURABLE MEMBER: Apparently, you are not witchcraft or not, the point is they have signed for these saying anything, man. things saying ‘we agree as Domkrag Government.’ Is it only us as the opposition who are saying this, besides HONOURABLE MEMBER: You rig elections, and SADC? The African Union (AU) has sent observers you also want to swindle the Speaker. to come and observe the 2014 Botswana general elections. I have their report here with me, compiled HONOURABLE MEMBER: I am only stating facts by the AU. After observing the elections in Botswana, DGB says you are always all over the place. they compiled a report. They gave recommendations on Page 20 of their report, paragraph number 53 reads, HONOURABLE MEMBER: You were taken from and I quote, “the Mission”, Mission referring to AU, your home, you had already lost hope. “the Mission encourages the Independent Electoral HONOURABLE MEMBER: DGB says… Commission (IEC) to consider reviewing the procedure involving the counting of votes. The Mission therefore, (inaudible)… unemployed and unemployable. recommends the counting and posting of results at the MR SALESHANDO (MAUN WEST): Thank you Mr polling station.” Members of Domkrag, this is what the Speaker. How much time is allocated for the response? AU Observer Mission said. The staccato is what the Vice President is creating for himself, self-confusion. MR SPEAKER: 20 minutes. This is what AU had to say. There is no chaos in what is written here. MR SALESHANDO: Thank you sir. Let me thank you Mr Speaker. I would like to start responding and When you go to the 2019 elections which Honourable

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Morwaeng says we are still awaiting the report for, here Assistance. These elections experts, not those who it is, and it was tabled in Parliament by Honourable succeeded once in elections, making an attempt; not Morwaeng. You can see that we are led by people having been there during the counting of ballots because who do not even know what is going on in their own they were not hoping to win. Now they think they can Government. Sometimes it is said ‘it is the blind leading teach us something about elections, so he should listen the blind’. This is a situation we are in. Sheer darkness, to what the experts have to say, at page 53 paragraph whereby the Minister brings a report and later says he is 45, that report is here, the one that has been compiled, still waiting for it. What did this report have to say Mr it reads, “consideration should be given to counting the Speaker? I would like to quote something from it for ballots at the polling station instead of transporting them you, the Election Report at page number 36, paragraph to a central venue.” There is overwhelming evidence 2.8 reads, “legislate for the introduction of counting which is as big as a seated elephant, which alludes to at polling stations in order to improve the security of the fact that Botswana Democratic Party is playing deaf, ballots.” This is a report we got from Honourable even though it has ears. It is...(interruption)… opposition Morwaeng in Parliament. Look at these somersaulters. so that it appears as if it does not think properly, but these They gave us a report saying this is what was agreed issues, when they go to Southern African Development upon. Look at the hypocrites! The champions of Community (SADC), African Union (AU), they support hypocrisy presented a report before us; from here, they them but when they come to Parliament of Botswana, are saying the opposition is not thinking properly. It they oppose them. is not an idea that was initiated by us. Here it is; the stakeholder report which Honourable Morwaeng is I now want to focus on some of their reasons, but in still waiting for. I got it from Parliament after it was short, the reasons that they advanced are just lame presented by him. We can proceed. It is not only 2019 excuses, they are all over the place and it shows that and 2014, there was a report which was also issued by they have ran out of reasoning. They gave about seven the IEC which stated what was said about the 2014 reasons, when I summarise them. Their first reason was elections administration. In it, when you go to page… that we should wait for the Constitution….

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Morwaeng is saying he MR SPEAKER: Honourable Hikuama is asking for wants to make a correction. clarification.

MR SALESHANDO: I do not think he can make any MR SALESHANDO: I yield Sir. correction Mr Speaker. A time for darkness has passed; MR HIKUAMA: Clarification. Thank you Honourable there is nothing he can correct. Now he should listen to the Member. Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable facts. On page number 13 of the 2014 report, paragraph 20 it reads, “ballot counting; stakeholders noted that Saleshando, when you look at the overwhelming sometimes there are delays in ballot counting. To avoid evidence that you are highlighting from the official such scenarios, we recommend that ballot counting be recommendations and reports which were compiled by done at district level to minimise inconveniences.” It experts, including the Government, only for Botswana is a report from the IEC which Domkrag was part of, Democratic Party (BDP) leadership which is led by Vice making these recommendations. It shows that members President to make statements as if these things cannot of the BDP agreed. From here they are somersaulting. happen, what do you think could be triggering them They ran away, not wanting to hear what they agreed to to think like this, despite the overwhelming support at the evaluation. and evidence that what you are proposing can be implemented? I thank you. Let us go ahead, I want to show you that the issue where there was a lamentation, the Vice President saying he MR SALESHANDO: We find ourselves in a situation can see a staccato and so forth, he should have just been whereby a Member of Parliament like Honourable excited for the new word he learnt and stopped talking Leuwe can just say that he cannot support this Bill about the chaos which is imagined. It is imagined, there because it contradicts with the Constitution, and when is no chaos. Here is the issue; the performance audit that lawyers tell him that it does not contradict with the was done by the IEC being assisted by the European Constitution, that Section 31 that is being mentioned Union (EU), having called experts in elections; the does not apply here, he further goes on to say that that is International Institute for Democracy and Electoral what he believes. This basically means that Honourable

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Leuwe can even go to an extent of telling you that it or believe whatever they say. Even if he can be told to contradicts with the bible. When you ask him which watch out for a snake, when Vice President says that it verse in the bible, he will say Genesis 1 Verse 1, “in is not a snake, Honourable Leuwe will believe that there the beginning God created the world,” contradicts with is no snake. I was disappointed to hear even the former counting of ballots, and that that is what he Honourable Permanent Secretary to the President (PSP), Honourable Leuwe believes. That is why I am saying that this takes Molale saying that if amended, the Electoral Act is us to the statement which was uttered by Honourable going to contradict with the Constitution. So for these Gobotswang. When a situation is like this, when years, Member advising Cabinet about Government everything defies logic, Batswana usually say that it is administration, you do not know the difference between witchcraft. The person who bewitched you would be the laws of Botswana? This is definitely a curse. dead and there will be no one to reverse the spell that he or she casted on you. I can let Honourable Leuwe off the hook because he does not hold any position, but I cannot forgive PSP, Assistant As I highlighted, I want to focus on the reasons which Minister Mthimkhulu at Office of the President for they gave and one of those reasons was to wait for his misleading information; from high office, holding Constitutional Review. The fellow chaps do not have prestigious positions, you will see that like I said, in our any clue, just imagine a situation whereby the ruling country the blind is leading the blind; we are challenged party is advised by opposition that counting of ballots with a lost leadership which is in the dark. papers has nothing to do with the Constitution. They do not know where to find the issue of counting on Honourable Mmusi Kgafela says that since you have ballots in the Constitution. Domkrag members, it is the right to observe counting of ballots, it is not good not in the Constitution and we do not have to wait for to count ballots in polling stations because your right Constitutional review. Counting ballots falls under the would be violated. When you are a candidate, you do Electoral Act. At least for today, learn one thing; that have the right to go and observe and be voted in different the Constitution does not say anything about counting polling stations, right? According to Honourable ballots. Even when we review the Constitution, we are Mmusi’s statement, he sees it relevant to even say that not going to address the issue of counting ballots. At Parliamentary candidates should be voted in one place least learn one thing today as members of Botswana because he would like to observe the voting process Democratic Party. and that he does not want people to represent him. You will even see that even people who you could bank on They mentioned that there will be no security because with the hope that they studied law, be it Honourable the security is not beefed up at polling stations where Mthimkhulu or Honourable Kgafela, they are all the ballots for Councillors are counted. What? Really! same. When one enters Botswana Democratic Party, he Does this mean that Parliamentary ballots are more or she loses his mind and he or she ignores laws and important hence they need security while Councillor’s teachings that he or she knows, and becomes ignorant ballots do not need security to an extent that they can like they are doing. even be guarded by scouts? Shame on you. You know Secretary General of BDP Mpho Balopi says that it that you want to cheat Batswana, you have ran out of means that an EVM is required. In a study group, the reasons Honourable Brooks. Earlier on when reasons late Kenneth Koma used to say that when you start a were advanced before Honourable Brooks, he simply debate, the first thing that you have to do is to agree said “that is your issue” Honourable Brooks basically on ‘the universe of discourse.’ When it is said that you said that if someone knows the ward that did not vote should talk about reading, you cannot say that you want for him or her, he or she will not represent it well. This the group to talk about the match between Arsenal and means that he supports the statement that was once Chelsea. That is basically what Honourable Balopi did. made here in Parliament by Honourable Fidelis Molao, He came up with a different topic, that he is going to that constituencies which voted Opposition are going to talk about the EVM of which assuming he is correct, be deprived off developments by Domkrag. some members of Opposition once supported it, the Number 3; I will quickly go over it. You can maybe let truth is that Batswana are the ones who rejected it. He Honourable Leuwe off the hook because according to went around all the Kgotla meetings saying that they are the Procedures of Botswana Democratic Party, when you a party that values consultation, so was the EVM issue hear the elders saying something, you have to support not addressed at the Kgotla meetings? The Secretary

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General is now here saying that he wants the EVM. He Honourable Balopi, I do not know the statements which is saying that for the counting process to be fast, the are directed to people who are not honest as you just told EVM is the only thing that can count ballots fast. It is as Mr Speaker that you are asking for a point of procedure, if he never goes anywhere or watches elections in other yet you know, I take it that you know, you have more countries. than a year here so I take it that you know what a point of procedure means, and then you say that you are attacked During the last elections in England, close to 27 million with words, learn to be truthful. Learn the truth; it shall people voted; 27 million ballots were counted and the set you free. We are going to continue to direct words results were released in less than 24 hours; they knew to you which correspond with the thoughts that you are the party that won elections. In fact, the results were portraying here trying to mislead the nation. known in less than 12 hours, without the EVM. Just because the Secretary General of BDP thinks that people Honourable Healy and others, when you look at do not know, when he rises to debate, he comes with the minor statements that he made, focusing on the the idea that people will think that he is telling the truth substance, I thought there was only one issue worth just because he is a Minister and the Secretary General responding to. He said people might pre-empt results of the ruling party, while in actual fact he knows that and announce themselves winners. That happens even he wants to mislead Batswana. The thirst to mislead the today. nation that they are leading is very high and it raises a concern Mr Speaker. In 2004 when I ran for elections in Gaborone Central, Councillors’ votes were counted first. During that time Ballots cannot only be counted fast by using the EVM; there was only one counting centre. All my Councillor no. Like Honourable Gobotswang said, it seems like candidates lost five wards except one. Botswana your cries… Democratic Party (BDP) went on a motorcade that they won since they won five wards and lost one and therefore MR SPEAKER: Honourable Saleshando, procedure believed they had won. Right after their motorcade from Honourable Balopi. when they parked their vehicles, counting commenced for Members of Parliament votes. After counting was MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT, LABOUR done, Botswana Congress Party (BCP) started the PRODUCTIVITY AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT second motorcade. BDP members never bothered us, (MR BALOPI): Procedure. Thank you Mr Speaker. I they entered their vehicles one by one and went home to want to state categorically that I never said I want the rest. Your reasoning sir is flawed and weak, go and find EVM. I said all the reasons advanced; of speed and limiting involvement of someone, points that we would another one. need something that was once talked about, especially I will not go into what you said that parties are fighting the EVM. I never said I want the EVM. I was saying all the reasons advanced are like that. So if Honourable and so on. We have lived with BDP members, we Saleshando wants to disrespect us, since he is attacking know you. I will not talk about your issues at Central us and referring to us as people who do not have value, Committee or where you are going. In fact, though he should point out what we said. He has to know that you boast that you have full confidence in our electoral we are capable of saying the same thing to him; because system, are you aware that you are the only party which as he is speaking, ridiculing us, he has to be factual. He does not have the liberty to vote for its leader when should not only say that I said I want the EVM. Thank going for elections. Your leader is donated by a sitting you Mr Speaker. President. Mr Mogae was never the choice of the BDP, he was Sir Ketumile Masire’s choice. MR SALESHANDO: Was there a procedural point Mr Speaker? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Where were we?

MR SPEAKER: No, he must correct you. MR SALESHANDO: Former President Khama was never a choice of the BDP, he was anointed. He was MR SALESHANDO: Yes, when you tell him that donated to say, I am leaving you with this one. Right he does not know a point of procedure, looking at his now even when you can see that you cannot stand and comment, he is going to say that you are disrespecting defend the Vice President’s weakness, you know that him. when President Masisi resigns due to certain reasons,

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whether you like it or not, your leader is Honourable what you Members of the BDP were saying and he is Slumber Tsogwane, whom you know cannot take you dealing with that. anywhere as a party. You do not have any choice. You will just have to accept that he has been appointed. HONOURABLE MEMBER: So, Honourable Moatlhodi does not know, ever since he went to BDP… LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Point of order. We have been listening attentively to MR SPEAKER: If people wandering all over… Leader of the Opposition (LOO) thinking that he has HONOURABLE MEMBER: The thing is Botate is brought something worth listening to which can either attentive. be agreed to or opposed. It is evident that he is not here for that but to insult us. Much as he wants to insult us MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)… then he is replying to because it is typical of him, we are not worried about that, that they are of no use. You cannot be complaining that. So, what I want to say to him is, it is not true that now to say please do not reply to us, we were out of the Vice President can take over if the President is not order. That is very logical. there. It is not for Batswana or BDP, even if it was BCP or Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC) in the same MR SALESHANDO: That is true Botate. Actually… position having not amended the Constitution, it will happen that way. He can also take over but we do not MR SPEAKER: Honourable Kekgonegile wants want to ridicule him. We know that he is working from procedure too. constituency to constituency trying to get a slot to come to Parliament but we do not want to ridicule him. MR KEKGONEGILE: Procedure. Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Chairperson, it will be wrong to HONOURABLE MEMBER: This is someone whose continue with what Honourable Healy said, while father handed over the party to him. Batswana are listening and expecting that Parliament HONOURABLE MEMBER: Where is the order in debates should be done within the Standing Orders with that? decorum without involving people’s parents in what we are debating here. For Honourable Healy to be talking MR SPEAKER: No, the order is, in terms of the about Honourable Saleshando’s parents… Constitution of this Republic, if the President should vacate office, the Vice President takes over. That is the HONOURABLE MEMBER: It is not point of Constitution. I do not know about parties, you are the procedure sir. Stop wasting our time. ones who know if the same applies to parties.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: His father handed over HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… the party to him. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Lelatisitswe, you do not HONOURABLE MEMBER: There was a procedure have the floor. I am listening to Honourable Kekgonegile. on the chat Mr Chairperson. MR KEKGONEGILE: Thank you. For Honourable MR SPEAKER: I can see you Honourable Moatlhodi. Healy to be talking bad about Honourable Saleshando’s parents that they handed him the party, whereas we MR MOATLHODI: Procedure. Thank you Mr Speaker, good afternoon sir. The procedure that I am calling for know at the party how things panned out, that in itself Mr Chairperson, is Standing Order 57.1, it categorically Mr Chairperson, firstly is disrespect to Saleshando states that a Member should restrict himself to the subject senior. Honourable Healy is our in law and where we on the table. He should not involve any strange matter. come from, elders are respected. If he cannot respect us There is nothing that talks about the Vice President on in Parliament, at least he should respect his in-laws or the table. May the Honourable Member on the floor, just divorce if he cannot respect us as his in laws. restrict himself to the subject on the table. Please! HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moatlhodi, in terms of the Standing Order, you are correct. In terms of replying MR SPEAKER: I hope you are also hungry. I did not to the debates, Honourable Saleshando is replying to hear because Honourable Healy, I have never given you

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the floor, I was listening to those I gave the floor to. I have another person’s question considered by you? We do not know where your issues with Healy come from. are told that, no that one depends on the answering, it was scheduled for this Thursday. HONOURABLE MEMBER: They are delaying us to go and eat. MR SALESHANDO: Okay sir.

MR SPEAKER: True! Honourable Members, it is 1 MR MOTSAMAI: Good afternoon Mr Speaker. The o’clock. I had hoped Honourable Saleshando would first question does not apply, it is now repeating for the have managed to answer all, it looks like he can only do third time. The Minister responded to it. So I do not that next time not today, you can still …(inaudible)… understand why you are repeating it or is it because they deal with that one next time. Honourable Members, it is did not hear the Minister’s response while I did? Thank time for lunch. Let us try to move back here at 2 o’clock. you. The House is adjourned. MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Motsamai, PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 1:06 P.M. FOR I saw that there might be some confusion, but thank APPROXIMATELY 1 HOUR you very much. Honourable Thiite, anybody taking the PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 2:00 P.M question for Honourable Thiite?

…Silence … ...Silence...

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Close for me. MR SPEAKER: Ghanzi North?

…Silence… MR SPEAKER: Where is the Honourable Member for Kgalagadi South? MR SALESHANDO: Yes Mr Chairperson, it is MR MOTSAMAI: I will take for Honourable Thiite. Thursday today and being an alternate Thursday, we were supposed to be having questions to the Vice MR SPEAKER: Alright thank you. President, they were not there last week. I know there were questions noticed, I think there needs to be an HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…where explanation. are they?

MR SPEAKER: I am sure those affected know what MR SPEAKER: I …(Inaudible)…know Honourable happened, they would have been … Fidelis. MR SALESHANDO: …(Inaudible)… NON-CITIZEN OWNED COMPANIES

MR SPEAKER: Pardon! MR C. GREEFF (GABORONE BONNINGTON MR SALESHANDO: I am affected, I have a question SOUTH): asked the Minister of Investment, Trade and the Vice President is supposed to answer but I was not Industry to state: told anything. (i) how many non-citizen owned companies operate MR SPEAKER: No, yours is for this Thursday. The in the country; one which was supposed to come today is Honourable (ii) how many of them pay tax; Keorapetse’s. (iii) how many pay their employees’ salaries according MR SALESHANDO: Is he only around for one to the Government set standards; and does the question, every two weeks or it could be two questions ministry find it fit to reconsider reserving some because I saw the two questions on the same Notice of the businesses they operate for locals only Paper? especially those at the level of small Economic Services. MR SPEAKER: Clearly it could be determined… (Inaudible)…have been sent for this Thursday, because ASSISTANT MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, I did ask if the question by Honourable Keorapetse was TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MR MOLEBATSI): falling behind because of one or two things which have Thank you Mr Speaker, good afternoon! I ...(Inaudible)… been done by the Vice President (VP). Why can we not been away.

21 Hansard No 201 Thursday 11th March, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

Mr Speaker, there are 2,246 non-citizen owned reserved for citizens and these include meat processing, companies that operate in the country. These companies peanut butter, brick moulding, school uniform, roof have been issued with trade, liquor and industrial trusses and traditional leather products. licenses by different Local Authorities. The number does not include companies that are regulated under In conclusion Mr Speaker, the reservation is meant other Sectors, such as Health, Security and Finance. to promote citizen participation in the economy. The Ministry continues to assess licensed activities and Mr Speaker, according to the Botswana Unified Revenue revise the reservation list as is necessary. Having said Service, as at December 2020, the number of companies that thank you Mr Speaker. that are wholly owned by non-citizens registered to pay tax was 512. It is worth noting that companies pay tax MR GREEFF: Thank you Mr Speaker, thank you based on their annual turnovers, hence, the lower number for your response Minister. Minister, amongst all of non-citizen companies registered to pay tax relative the businesses which you listed which are reserved to the number registered. That is why I mentioned that for Batswana, do you have a plan to protect those amongst companies that I listed, only 512 non-citizen businesses for Batswana? I am saying this because owned companies pay tax. looking at Gaborone Bonnington South in areas like Phase 4, West, Gaborone West shopping complex and Mr Speaker, information on payment of salaries to the streets of Morula, Block 9, there many foreigners employee is not readily available. While Government who run businesses which you mentioned that they sets minimum wage for different Sectors of the economy, are reserved for Batswana, they operate salons and payment of salaries to employees by employers is everything else which you listed. There are many foreigners in our constituency who operate these regulated by their contract of employment, and it is a businesses. You also mentioned that we have 2,446 non- transaction that takes place between the parties at the citizen owned companies that operate in the country, and workplace. In addition, the Ministry of Employment, it is shocking to note that only 512 of them pay tax. My Labour Productivity and Skills Development monitors question therefore is, what efforts are you undertaking compliance to labour laws, including compliance to to protect Batswana in their small scale businesses so minimum wage rates through labour inspections. that they can remain reserved for them or do you just From January 2020 to December 2020, two hundred make announcements and stay in your offices? Do you and eight (208) labour inspections were carried out and not have time to ensure that Batswana are protected in thirteen (13) employers were found non-compliant with their market? minimum wage orders. Five (5) are in Manufacturing, MR MOLEBATSI: Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable five (5) Hotels and three (3) in the Retail Sector. Member of Parliament, the truth of the matter is that we Mr Speaker, in line with Section 151 (b) of the are serious if we announce that some goods and services Employment Act, a company that contravenes minimum are reserved for Batswana. If there are non-citizens wage order is subjected to a fine not exceeding P1, 000 who are trading in businesses reserved for Batswana, then they are against the law and there are stringent or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months charges in place that they could possibly face. As you or to both. Mr Speaker, there are businesses that are say, people sometimes overlook the law, so the efforts reserved for citizens under the Industrial Development undertaken by our ministry is to regularly check to see Act of 2019, Trade Act, 2019 and the Liquor Act, non-citizens who are venturing into businesses reserved 2003. Under the Trade Act, a total of 17 activities are for Batswana. Honourable Member of Parliament our reserved for citizens, four (4) of these require licensing office is open, you can contact our office in case you while 13 are for registration. These include car wash, discern an ill practice regarding businesses reserved cellphone shop, cleaning services, courier shop, dry- for Batswana. We do routine check-ups to see who are clean depot, florist, and importation of pre-owned cars. doing business with no proper licensing. Under the Liquor Act, four (4) licences are reserved for citizens being Bar Liquor, Bottle Store Liquor, Liquor You talked about salons, that there are a lot of foreigners Depot and Discotheque/Nightclub Liquor Licences. involved in the business yet they are reserved for Those are the ones reserved for Batswana. Batswana. My advice is, the law is never implemented in retrospect. Maybe you found a salon owner from Under the Industrial Development Act, 21 licences are Ghana, Nigeria or any other country who already had

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the licence when the policy came into effect. It would clinics, that is the information we gathered except be wrong to revoke that licence simply because the law for Metsibotlhoko, Tsetseng and Tshwaane. All these implemented is new. I advise you once again to notify other settlements qualify and that is why I am saying if us in case you notice something illegal. Thank you Mr Parliament approves our budget we can carry on with Speaker. these projects. I am also appealing to them to assist us with the Constituency Fund where they can. Thank you. THE REVISED NATIONAL POLICY ON EDUCATION MR LEUWE: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me thank you for that response Minister and ask a MR S. N. MOABI (TATI WEST): asked the Minister supplementary question since there is nothing wrong of Basic Education when the ministry intends to adopt with being hopeful. Since you had informed the public, the Revised National Policy on Education. do you not think it is important to go back to them and Later Date. inform them about the progress because we could have avoided asking such questions? They could know the UPGRADING OF CLINICS IN TAKATOKWANE situation, rather than bursting their bubble in Parliament CONSTITUENCY while they had expectations. Two; as you plead that we assist with the Constituency Fund, I wholeheartedly MR F. T. LEUWE (TAKATOKWANE): asked the concur with you, but during the recent presentation Minister of Health and Wellness if he is aware that by Honourable Molale, he indicated that although you clinics in the Takatokwane Constituency operate might have Constituency Fund, there is no how we are from structures built and meant for health posts; if so, going to construct the clinic with no specifications and when does he intend to upgrade these structures to plans. So what is your arrangement as the Ministry of accommodate clinic operations. Health and Wellness and Ministries of Infrastructure and ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND Local Government so that we can be assisted through WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you this Constituency Fund? Thank you Mr Speaker. so much Mr Speaker. Let me briefly indicate that our Ministry of Health and Wellness is planning to upgrade MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Mr Speaker. health posts to what is called a clinic countrywide. It is Member of Parliament, Honourable Leuwe… the intention of the ministry. However, these plans are restricted by unavailability of funds and it shows that …Silence… majority of clinics in Botswana are past the standard of MR LELATISITSWE: I promise him that I will being a health post. Mr Speaker, the standard is that if visit that constituency again and address meetings Mr the population is over 1, 000 it qualifies to be a clinic. Speaker. In terms of construction of clinics, a lot of Mr Speaker, as the Ministry of Health and Wellness, we constituencies, for example Honourable Fidelis Molao’s are making efforts to deploy services, in others words constituency. we are deploying services to the health posts. We are making efforts to post the employees to assist people MR LEUWE: Mr Speaker, I did not hear the first there. answer, the network froze this side.

Now coming to Takatokwane Constituency; I know MR LELATISITSWE: The first answer Mr Speaker; we were together recently at Maboane when launching we drew a schedule which commenced at Honourable a clinic which is constructed by Debswana, to be Leuwe’s constituency. I also informed him and completed next year. The following health posts could even shared a schedule of meetings planned at his have been upgraded through Economic Stimulus constituency but after the surge of the disease we ended Programme (ESP) projects; Kaudwane, Malwelwe, up postponing all meetings. Sesung, Dutlwe and Ditshegwane. Mr Speaker, due to unavailability of funds, the upgrading of these health …Silence… posts to clinics could not be realised. As I indicated MR LELATISITSWE: If you have funds to construct Mr Speaker, all these villages qualify; Tshwaane has a clinic we can engage the Council for Physical a population of 667, Dutlwe 1,167 and Maboane 1, Planning department to draw plans and submit them to 200. I think the majority qualify to be upgraded to the ministry for approval so that they continue to build.

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I said we witnessed this at Honourable Fidelis Molao’s (iii) the long term sustainable solution the ministry constituency. He built numerous clinics. I want to thank has to end the crisis, and if there are any plans to him, he assisted us as the Ministry of Health. I am the expeditiously address this as a matter of urgency; one who travelled to personally inspect them during and construction. So Honourable Leuwe, if you have funds, Council can draw plans and as the ministry, we approve (iv) the sustainable long term solution. it and carry on with the construction sir. Since we are MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND close, you can simply call me. RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MODUKANELE): MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member of Parliament Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me thank Honourable for Bobonong, Honourable Lucas. Motsamai for standing in for Honourable Thiite. Mr Speaker, …Silence… (i) I am aware that Qabo settlement has been MR SALESHANDO: Mr Speaker, Honourable Lucas experiencing water shortage since October 2020 was struggling to connect earlier on. If he is unable due to inadequate water supply for remote areas to reconnect, I will take the question for him. He did community’s livestock. Mr Speaker, Ghanzi indicate that he was having difficulties. He is connecting District Council has been sourcing water for from Bobonong. remote area community’s livestock from Water Utilities Corporation (WUC). He has since MR SPEAKER: Okay, let us go back to Question indicated that there is a decline in borehole yield. number 2 by Honourable Thiite. Grootlagte settlement on the other hand, has adequate MR MOTSAMAI: Thank you Mr Speaker. Before I water supply for livestock, but it is pumped from the high yielding community borehole Mr Speaker. The address the issue, Honourable Thiite is not here due to settlement has therefore, never experienced water a funeral… shortage for watering remote area community’s MR SPEAKER: I know. livestock. (ii) Mr Speaker, between April 2012 to October of MR MOTSAMAI: …or due to an unfortunate incident. 2020, WUC was billed a total of P439 054.12 Let me address the issue because you called several for supplying water for remote area community’s times and some of the Honourable Members were not livestock. WUC stopped the supply of potable able to respond. Really for me in particular, the question water to RAD settlement due to low borehole he asked covers the two constituencies. That is why yield in October of 2020. maybe I chose to take it for him. So Mr Speaker, it is question Number 2, I will address questions later. (iii) Mr Speaker, the sustainable long term solution for this challenge is that a high yielding borehole point WATER CRISIS IN QABO AND GROOTLAGTE has been identified for Qabo. A tender was awarded for cleaning and pump testing of the borehole on MR J. L. THIITE (GHANZI NORTH): asked the the 16th of November of 2020. The contractor was Minister of Local Government and Rural Development expected to have completed the work by 24th of if he is aware of the recurring water crisis in Qabo and December 2020. However, the contractor wrote rd Grootlagte settlements; and if so, to state: to the council on the 23 of December of 2020, withdrawing the contract, and the termination was (i) if he is aware that cattle in these settlements do not done by the adjudication committee on the 7th of get adequate water supplies, and as a result some January, 2021. Subject to the termination, council cattle end up dying; received a donation from Tshukudu Metals to clean and pump test the Qabo borehole. Pump (ii) the expenses incurred to date on paying Water testing was done subsequently, completed on the Utilities Corporation (WUC) for supplying Rural 7th of February of this year. The borehole yields Area Development Settlements (RADS) livestock 3500 litres per hour, which is sufficient to water with water; the current livestock population of 422 cattle in 38 smalls stock.

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(iv) Meanwhile Mr Speaker, procurement processes cattle which died, but as of now we do not have that to equip the borehole and construct a 200-meter information, and therefore, I would not want to dwell water reticulation pipeline started in earnest. The into any sort of speculations as it were. contractor was issued the award letter on the 18th The third one of the borehole; Honourable Motsamai, of February 2021, and whilst we have planned to I said in my submission that testing was done on a be completed by 31st of March this year, however, borehole that was going to provide water for cattle, we the contractor has since the 25th of February 2020 left the one which in actual fact, it could not manage to declined the offer and the tender awarded to provide water to cattle and people like he was saying. second best evaluated figure as at th4 of March of It has pumped a new borehole which will be used to this year Mr Speaker. provide water to cattle when the contractor who has Works are planned to commence on the 5th of March been awarded completes that project. I think this is what 2021 and be completed by the 1st of April 2021, and I was trying to communicate Mr Speaker, and I hope I thereafter, the remote area community’s livestock will have adequately answered the Honourable Member for now be provided with water from this borehole. I thank Ghanzi South. Thank you Mr Speaker. you Mr Speaker. MR HIKUAMA: Supplementary. Thank you MR MOTSAMAI: Supplementary. Mr Speaker, Honourable Speaker. Thank you Minister, I hear you and Honourable Modukanele talked about three issues I was attentively listening to your answer. The concern of Rural Area Development Settlement (RADS) that that are focused on the contractor; the contractor kept are provided with water using bowsers, is all over this on being hired and withdrawing from the project, and country and I am wondering why you cannot change now they have awarded the tender to another contractor. What you can promise the people of Grootlagte, Qabo your approach and holistically think of a permanent way and Honourable Thiite that, this is the one who will to roll-out in order to rectify this problem of providing resolve the problem now? water to livestock in settlements using bowsers. We have the same challenge at places like Somelo, Mauku There is an issue of thirst in cattle. The cattle died and Kaure. People are given cattle by the council and because the borehole was not working. Will those after that they die because of this water shortage. I do people be compensated because maybe their issues were not know if you have not come up with a permanent not responded to at the right time? plan of what could be done so that these people can have sustainable boreholes? Lastly Mr Speaker, this issue at Qabo, when will council stop this in settlements, Qabo included, whereby they MR MODUKANELE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Thank combine providing water to cattle and to the people you Honourable Caterpillar Hikuama. Let do this in from the same borehole. This borehole that is mentioned short, I think we have said time and again with the is put under pressure because it provides water for both Minister responsible for Local Government and Rural animals and people at the same time, but at the same Development that we have an open door policy and time we pay WUC a lot of money which can be used we are amenable to suggestions to engagement with to drill another borehole to relieve this situation Mr Honourable Members of Parliament on issues of this Speaker? Thank you. nature. I mean, Honourable Hikuama I would like to invite you to come over, so that we can have a dialogue. MR MODUKANELE: Thank you Mr Speaker. You are very right, this is not just to Qabo, but other Honourable Member, the first question of what assurance settlements. Even at Honourable Monnakgotla`s, I can can we give to the Qabo people and other settlement; attest to that, I was with her last time, it is an issue. I as I speak now, I have no reason whatsoever, to doubt would like to request that we should collaborate. I that the contractor who has been awarded, for whatever do not know how much it costs to drill a borehole in reason he may leave. Certainly and surely, I do not have those areas. Once you secure some funds Honourable any reason whatsoever to make me doubt that he will Hikuama, the P10 million, use them to make these begin the project like we agreed. permanent structures so that we could improve the lives of people in these remote areas. At the end of the day, The issue of compensation Mr Speaker, I probably I think as leaders, we are duty bound to work together would not want to go that far, it is our first time to and make sure that some things, we come up with hear that from Honourable Motsamai that there were suggestions as well and engage. I thank you Mr Speaker.

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MR SPEAKER: Honourable Saleshando for graduated from their programmes of study since Honourable Lucas. its inception is 364 countrywide. As I have already mentioned, sponsorship or enrolment of students OVC IN BOBIRWA DISTRICT is not done by districts and we do not know who MR T. B. LUCAS (BOBONONG): asked the Minister of these graduates are from the Bobirwa Sub- of Local Government and Rural Development to state: Districts.

(i) the total number of Orphans and Vulnerable (iii) Mr Speaker, there is no mechanism or system Children (OVC) admitted to tertiary institutions in place to track Government sponsored OVCs through a special dispensation programme since students or specific provision for special inception in each of the districts/towns/cities dispensation on job placement for OVCs. countrywide; What obtains …(inaudible)… in relation to this (ii) the number of OVCs who successfully graduated cohort is that graduates register individually with from their programmes of study in each since its inception countrywide and in Bobirwa Sub- Graduate Database at the Directorate of Public Service District; Management (DPSM). Therefore, my ministry does not have records of the nature of the jobs into which they (iii) the number of OVCs who successfully graduated were placed countrywide or in Bobirwa Sub-District in and found job placement, including a summary of particular. There is no formal programme that provides the nature of jobs they were placed countrywide for Affirmative Action for job placement for OVCs. and in Bobirwa Sub-District; However, my ministry is in discussion with DPSM (iv) if there is an Affirmative Action Programme for for possible facilitation of OVCs through Affirmative job placement of those who graduated under this Action, where employment opportunity exists. dispensation; and (iv) Mr Speaker, it is our view that special dispensation (v) if he is satisfied with the extent to which the programme access to tertiary education has been programme achieves its intended objectives. largely successful, as indicated by the cumulative number of beneficiaries who have been facilitated ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL to access tertiary education. It provides social GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT protection services for OVCs across the country. (MR MODUKANELE): Thank you Mr Speaker. My ministry will continue to explore different Maybe upfront Mr Speaker, I should point out that we ways to improve the programme, including job do indeed have a problem with data, I think across the creation opportunities so the different Government department. With that said Mr Speaker, what I would economic empowered programmes, given the provide here is the facts as they stand as of now and limited formal job opportunities particularly in the what we have in our possession. public service. (i) Mr Speaker, there is no central admission system Mr Speaker, I would like to appreciate that there is a that can be accessed to ascertain the total number of orphans and vulnerable children who were challenge with data management regarding Government admitted into tertiary institutions upon completion sponsored OVCs. My ministry therefore commits of their senior secondary schools. However, we to enhancing its monitoring and evaluation and data can only provide information on OVCs students management mechanism, including inter-phasing these who applied and qualified for sponsorship under other key stakeholders. For example; Department of OVCs dispensation over the past 10 years. 9 641 Tertiary Education Financing and DPSM. In order OVCs students were sponsored by Government in to fully-track the number of beneficiaries who have the past 10 years. attained self-reliant to meet this programme, the only implementation on the Single Social Registry will Mr Speaker, it should also be noted that sponsorship of also provide a mechanism for registering, tracking students is not done only on basis of districts, cities or and monitoring all social protection beneficiaries Mr towns. Speaker, including OVCs which will greatly enhance our data management. I thank you Mr Speaker. (ii) Mr Speaker, total number of Government sponsored OVCs students who successfully HONOURABLE MEMBER: Supplementary.

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MR SALESHANDO: I will defer to Honourable Lucas countrywide. Mr Speaker, one may ask Honourable Mr Speaker, it seems he is now connected. Modukanele because their Government is harping on the numbers, as to how many people were assisted, not MR LUCAS: Supplementary. Thank you very much to say how far those whom we assisted went. Mr Speaker. I thank you Honourable Saleshando for deferring it to me. The internet here in Bobonong was The unavailability of this database, do you think it not going well. Honourable Minister, do you realise that is the only gap that is there within OVC and RADP I have been on your neck regarding issues of people programmes? You might have a database, but if you do who were unfortunate in life, whom you actually intend not have an ultimate goal regarding how far you want to help. Do you realise that the absence of the Data the person you are assisting to go, then it will not help. Management Programme is going to make you fail to Do you not see it important to have a holistic review review your efforts of assisting orphans, because you of these programmes, considering the fact that there are cannot weigh properly if you have succeeded or not. more gaps as compared to data? That is the first question. Secondly, the issue of jobs is very core and central to Secondly; do you not think it is important for you to positive social functioning of these people. In the past, inform us that the Data Management Programme you when one completed his or her studies, he or she would are talking about, when do you intend to start it so that go straight to work, so can the government not consider we could be able to make a proper review of whether to put that system back in use specifically for vulnerable your efforts are being realised? people as a way to try and break the circle of poverty Thirdly, is in regard to job placement. Yesterday I within generations of these particular families? Thank enquired about job placement for our Rural Area you. Development Settlements (RADS) dwellers. Today MR MODUKANELE: Mr Speaker, I thank you. I thank I am enquiring about the job placement of orphans. you Honourable Kekgonegile for your intervention. When you assist people, especially those who were not Let me point out that as I talked about National Social fortunate enough in life, you have to assist them until the end. Do you not think it is necessary for us to have a Protection Framework and Single Social Registry special policy for job placement for vulnerable children? earlier on, I did indicate that the Social Single Registry I thank you Honourable Minister. is one of the components of National Social Protection Framework. Social Protection Framework has other MR MODUKANELE: Mr Speaker, I did indicate right intentions and objectives beyond just the provision of at the beginning that the issue of data management is data Mr Speaker. It is in our interest to see the impact of a constraint. We accept that. The job placement which Honourable Lucas is talking about as to what do we these programmes at the end of the day because that is envisage going forward to manage the issue of data; the bottom line, to see the level that these people reach we have already started. I think I have talked about the at the end of the day through the impact of the assistance National Social Protection Framework, which one of that we provide. What do they end up doing to improve its components is the Social Single Registry, which is their lives because we do not only want to dish out going to give and show us that all across the country, assistance? At the end of the day, they should be able to who is being assisted; is it orphans, destitutes, war get out of these poverty traps, for lack of a better word. veterans, and so forth. Who are they, where they are and We want to see them out of that situation and being what are they doing. That alone, can help us to know Members of Parliament like Honourable Kekgonegile, the destitutes, orphans, where they are and what are Minister and Permanent Secretary (PS), and be workers they doing. We have already started, we are populating who contribute to the development of this country as it the Single Social Registry and we hope that in a not so were Mr Speaker. I thank you. distant future, by the end of 2023, if I am not wrong, we would have completed this thing. That is provided, you DR GOBOTSWANG: Thank you. Mr Speaker, will get information. I believe we will find it because the Honourable Minister you will realise that Honourable Minister responsible for Local Government and Rural Lucas does not only ask these questions as the Member Development once called his colleagues and they had of Parliament for Bobonong, he also has extensive a dialogue; that is other Ministers who are affected. He expertise. His question is centred on the policy. The issue showed them the importance of them furnishing us with is that the policy is a pathway, you cannot progress if information as soon as possible so that we are on top of you do not have an ultimate goal and a policy about how issues like this one. Mr Speaker and I thank you. you intend to assist people living with disabilities from MR KEKGONEGILE: Supplementary. Thank you Mr school up until they get to work and their protection in Speaker. Good afternoon. I would like to greet Batswana the workplace. You should be thinking about issues like

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reducing taxes for people who are going to hire them. this thing is common during supplementary questions. We need a policy on how you intend to assist them up When it is time for the other Honourable Minister to until they get jobs. Honourable Minister, what are your answer, they will speak English in one sentence and use intentions, what are your thoughts in relation to the Setswana in the following sentence, mixing languages policy of this kind? in one sentence. Maybe we should go back to the old system whereby it was recorded that when you use a MR MODUKANELE: I thank you Mr Speaker. I word… because some words are simple, they are not hope Honourable Gobotswang was here yesterday, in big terms and they are also there in Setswana but they Parliament, and if he was, I believe that he heard that are not used…(Interruptions!)…and then they shift I did say we have already started working on many to using English even though they started the debate policies including family policy that Honourable in Setswana. This issue will be difficult for us going Lucas talked about yesterday. I did say Mr Speaker, forward, people will not understand what we talk about we have to look at these things with an open mind. I here in Parliament. Thank Mr Speaker. do not think we should be myopic to say that, just one policy will be a cure and a panacea to all the social ills MR SPEAKER: His Honour the Vice President, you afflicting the different categories of the people that we will recall that during their period…(Inaudible)…learnt are talking about. In word of one syllable let me just Setswana half way though education...(Inaudible)…the assure the Honourable Member that, we just started, importance of speaking to Batswana in Setswana and not we are working on all the relevant policies and in the Fanakalo, but whether it is because you are educated, I fullness of time, these policies will be there. Thank you do not know. The Standing Orders do require that you Mr Speaker. choose the language you want to use in your debate and TABLING OF PAPER you stick to that one. ASSEMBLY IN COMMITTEE The following paper was tabled: (CHAIRPERSON in the Chair) REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) (Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Education and Skills Development) (Resumed Debate)

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): On ORGANISATION 2300 - MINISTRY OF a point of procedure. Mr Speaker, can your aids help INFRASTRUCTURE AND HOUSING DEVELOPMENT you with the chat. I often do not want to interject by calling because it disturbs the House sometimes, so they MR CHAIRPERSON (MR SKELEMANI): Order! should always advise you about what they see on the Honourable Members! Honourable Members the debate chat. So now they have this tendency of keeping quiet on this organisation is resuming and I shall call upon even when they notice something on the chat. the Honourable Minister to reply to the debate at 1610 hours today, and the question will be put at 1640 hours. Over and above that Mr Speaker, the procedure is that you should pay attention and also advise Members When the House adjourned yesterday Honourable of Parliament that there is a procedure in this House Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development has just finished presenting, and the floor is open. I am pertaining to the use of language, that they should pick trying to check whether there are any lists. I know I have only one language to use between the two languages. the list for the Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC). I plead that Honourable Members, you should pay attention to how they alter reports. If you are going ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL to read out a report and you cannot even complete GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT a sentence without code-mixing, people will not (MR MODUKANELE): Mr Chairperson, am I understand. People do not understand completely, they audible? do not know what we are talking about. So I take it that people who ask questions and those who answer, MR CHAIRPERSON: Yes sir.

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MR MODUKANELE: Mr Chairperson… student is affected by different things. Although I am not attributing bad performance to this issue, it can be MR CHAIRPERSON: Your phone is causing havoc. one of the things which demotivates teachers and even You cannot be consistent and be relied upon. Honourable students. Like Honourable Minister indicated that by Modukanele, do you hear me? I have given you the floor. Continue please. end of May, this tendering process will be complete and awarded those who can carry out maintenance of MR MODUKANELE: Yes Sir. Thank you Mr this school, I plead with you that it should be done. We Chairperson. We had requested that maybe Honourable expect that at least by the end of the year, the school Molale should come before me and I take his position would have been maintained. I know that he is dealing four since he is leaving for Botswana Television (BTV). with a lot and not just focusing on this school only. I MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Modukanele, I am appreciate that and promise that we will do our best to chairing and I have given you the floor. I am the Chair. ensure that the Minister’s budget proposal is approved. We are fully behind him to achieve the projects before MR MODUKANELE: Thank you Mr Chairperson. him. Otherwise it is going to end up affecting the lives Let me start by indicating that I support the Minister and the future of students in these schools. of Infrastructure and Housing, Honourable Mmusi Kgafela’s proposal. In my support for his proposal, Mr Chairperson, my idea is that to enhance accountability there are two or three points I would like to address. I going forward, why can we not consider having will not be long. Firstly, I would like to make a request maintenance under one Ministry or Minister? When we to the Minister that if I am not mistaken, there are talk of those responsible for maintaining a community Batswana companies who have grouped themselves into junior which is lower than a senior secondary school, you an association. My wish is that you should keep in touch will find that there are two or three ministries involved. with them with a view to hear what their challenges In my view, that does not enhance accountability. It was are. I am saying this because back then, some of us just an idea Mr Chairperson that going forward, maybe who were there, there were big Batswana companies we should look at it this way. which I believe were carrying out Category E projects which the Minister talked about yesterday. These were Like I said, I do not have much to say on Minister companies such as Tlhoraboroko and other big ones. I Kgafela’s proposal. I want to point out that when we talk do not know what happened to these companies. They about Government buildings; these public buildings, we just disappeared…(Interruptions)…they are unable to must understand that we are talking about an investment carry out big projects. I wish the Minister could consult that was built out of taxes which Government collected this association to hear if they need assistance to grow. from Batswana. This means, it is very important for us to consider maintaining the buildings which we already Mr Chairperson, I also like paragraph 3 where the have instead of building new ones. I do not want to bring Minister indicated that going forward, he wishes to irrelevant issues Mr Chairperson, I heard the advice that unbundle projects such as maintenance so that many the Vice President gave us, and there is a saying that Batswana companies can benefit. I therefore believe that says a bird in hand is worth more than a million in the Batswana’ small, medium and big companies can at the bush. This means it is better to hold onto something end of the day also benefit. one has already than to risk losing it by trying to attain something better. Mr Chairperson, I will skip other paragraphs and rush to paragraph 8, with particular interest on bullet six On that note Mr Chairperson, we already have some which talks about maintenance of Moeng School. Mr investments there. We have already invested on them Chairperson, just recently, results came out and Moeng so before rushing to do that, let us assess the conditions did not perform very well. If I am not mistaken, it is they are in and maintain them before they are dilapidated second from the bottom. Apart from performance, as we are going to end up spending much on them; a Moeng School is in bad shape Mr Chairperson. I believe typical example is Moeng school. We spent a lot on that that most of us last year saw the state of disrepair that school but had we maintained it on time, that money the infrastructure and even the fence were in. I believe was enough to start or complete a primary hospital in that when we talk of results, at the end of the day we a village like Lerala as the whole Lerala-Maunatlala are talking about moulding an individual. Raising a Constituency does not have a primary hospital.

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Having said that Mr Chairperson, I do not want to by Botswana Bureau of Standards (BoBS) and as thus, discuss this issue at length because I really do not we managed to start a roll-out on these projects. So we have much to say. In conclusion, I support Minister have a similar project at Maubelo at Honourable Brooks’ Mmusi Kgafela. Through his proposal, we can see that constituency and at Phitshane-Molopo; I am not sure he is making efforts. He is pursuing the intentions of if it has been carried out at Lehututu and other areas. his ministry to ensure that Batswana have houses, not Research has proved that a brick produced from this only that, but proper housing. With these words Mr experiment has value, if proper construction measures Chairperson, I thank you. are observed, plastering is not necessary.

MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND On that note Minister, let us do projects which meet RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): Thank specification of these bricks and other things because you Mr Chairperson. Let me also respond to the proposal it is going to assist. If we were to do that project under presented by Honourable Mmusi Kgafela. I support him Nyeletso Lehuma, it is going to generate a lot of income wholeheartedly because his job corresponds to mine, for those who own those projects while we also build more especially that it facilitates so that we may ensure projects that have value. For example; Phitshane- that those who assist the nation may live in improved Molopo project which is Kalahari Sand Building Block. conditions; I am referring to public officers’ housing. They sell bricks to Moshupa Primary Hospital for the We have been talking about public officers’ housing for project. That is a milestone. I request Minister is that a very long time. So I want us to assess it. We must have we do that project in many areas and in many projects a single standard for various extension workers. So this across the country. organisation builds houses according to their own plans This project is going to assist because Honourable while public officers want them to build in a certain Lefoko Moagi and Honourable Tshere usually talk manner. This causes invidious comparisons especially about sand mining which destroys rivers. So Kalahari that their standards differ. So I am saying, let us have Sand Building Block uses ordinary soil and sand, you a meeting and set a standard which is the most cost are not going to damage the rivers. For this reason, it is effective and efficient way of providing public officers’ going to help us to conserve our water ways, and river housing looking at these two sides. sand will be left behind to preserve those rivers. Firstly, let us hand towns and big villages to the private Thirdly Mr Chairperson, I will stress the point raised by sector so that Government may rent from them. In terms Honourable Modukanele. In the 80s, we used to engage of rural areas, we know that private sector focuses in companies like Aga Kgalagadi, Thoraboroko, Goshwe, areas where they can make profits, so that is where we Nyambe and others from Grade C and they upgraded chip in Minister as a way of rectifying this situation. The to Grade B. That was deliberate or was done so that most important thing is, if a public officer is transferred these companies may grow; and indeed they grew. The to Kaudwane where accommodation is not offered, they most unfortunate thing is, when these companies were are going to come back and nothing can be done because independent when there was no longer direct support to accommodation is not offered. That is why I am saying them, foreign companies came here. They completely we have to come up with ways to rectify this situation replaced them even though we still had Citizen because if a public officer is not there, the opportunity Economic Empowerment (CEE) policies and strategies. cost of that is high because they are not providing services as should and this is a drawback. So I urge your ministry to take action Minister, let us engage these companies so that they may be categorised The second point Mr Chairperson, if you recall, when I as big companies which are able to compete with was presenting my Budget, I mentioned on Paragraph foreign companies. If there is no competition, it breeds 19 that we are going to examine the research prototypes a situation called oligopoly, there are cartels such that if which were produced by our researchers in Botswana certain companies bid in a certain sale, others do not bid like Botswana Institute for Technology Research and until those ones call for their desired price. If we have Innovation (BITRI), National Food Technology Centre local contractors in those categories, the prices might (NAFTEC) and others. drop because those taxed by Government nowadays are Let me quickly move on to a research which was carried shocking. I also wish that even during assessments, the out on Kalahari Sand Building Block that was confirmed review of Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Board

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(PPADB) Act should be considered, it might help Mr Number two; in most cases, Ministers who are in the Chairperson. same field as you have targets that a new graduate should acquire housing after a certain period from first Lastly, I implore the Minister that things such as appointment. Simply put; if the youth graduate from maintenance, perhaps instead of stretching himself University with Degree then works for Government, as beyond his limit, we should agree to expand in such a the Minister it should be your concern as to how many way that it be managed by Councils. In each and every years it is going to take that graduate to qualify for a village we should engage local contractors especially loan at the bank based on their salary in order to afford those owned by youth to maintain all Government to purchase a house. If you do not act, we are going buildings like schools, tribal, clinic and so on. We to be in the situation we are experiencing in Botswana should stop decentralising maintenance of Government where banks rush to offer graduates from universities buildings, it should be a coordinated grand effort. We are vehicle loans. Then we start to show that in Botswana it willing as the Ministry of Local Government to assist is easier for the youth to purchase a brand new car rather and maintain because in the final analysis, it would help than securing a house. This mindset needs to change to deliver better services to the people. Minister.

With those remarks, I fully support the Minister in his There is another new aspect which I was surprised that proposal. Thank you Mr Chairperson. it is missing in your speech because Ministers who are in the same field as you are talking about home MR SALESHANDO (MAUN WEST): Thank you protection in light of COVID-19; regarding the efforts Mr Chairperson. Maybe I am going to differ with the undertaken by Governments to ensure that people do speakers who said they do not have a lot of issues to say not lose their home ownership due to COVID-19. I will to the Minister. I have numerous issues, I would like to set an example; at my constituency in Ngamiland, a lot emphasise one, which in my view is not given enough of people stopped working last year. Almost one and attention, so next year I want it to be prioritised. two families, if you visit the households, you will find one in every second household who was working but is In supporting Minister Kgafela Mmusi who now staying home, not working. This means if they took is responsible for ensuring that Batswana get out a loan from the bank to pay for a house, then they accommodation, I am happy that in his presentation it have been defaulting on repayment for a year. I do not shows that the Government acknowledges housing as know when they are going to be open. There ought to be a human right which was difficult in the past. I was a something about mortgage protection. Member of Parliament back then when it was difficult to persuade Ministers of the Botswana Democratic Party I did not hear you talking about the unfortunate situation that housing is a right. This is the first thing. we are facing, so as the Minister I have a concern that we are going to witness people’s houses being ‘in the It does not mean you have to acknowledge in the matter between’, so these are the efforts we are going manner I see you acknowledging in as if it is a right. to undertake. It cannot be business as usual. I do not see If it is a right, there are actions you have to undertake this being mentioned in your presentation. This means if to show that it is a right, it is not something which is you do not take the lead as the Minister and discuss with based on affordability. If you cannot afford then it is too banks regarding things such as repayment holiday and bad, that is not how human rights work. I am saying this load modification, it does not motivate banks because due to the fact that a lot of Ministers in this world who they are saying if we protect Batswana, what is the have the same responsibility as yours have set targets. Government offering us in return. It is not enough for In most cases, the Minister responsible for housing each and every individual to approach banks, one by has to inform the nation that in five years for example, one. what percentage he has set for home ownership. Look at the target of home ownership, a lot of countries have A few days back, I heard you saying Botswana Housing it. You can go and benchmark at Singapore and their Corporation (BHC) tenants who have complaints success story, they have reached more targets than us should come forth and lodge them. If you say Motswana in Botswana yet they do not have land, we have more should lodge a complaint, he/she will be slow to act. land than them hundredfold but we are failing to provide However, if you present an initiative to encourage home housing. ownership, Batswana will come forth

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I really want to emphasise, I know the BDP does not like Why can you not decide that every year the money targets Minister Kgafela Mmusi. When you are urged to that BHC generates as profits should go to BHC as it set targets you refuse, please set targets. is, and according to me I would say the dividend that was supposed to go to Government should at least go I want to just give you an example of the power of to building low income housing. Low income housing, targets; after President Joe Biden was inaugurated, he because they are the ones that are hard for those low announced that 100 million people will be vaccinated in income people to buy. The likes of BHC high cost are 100 days. The majority of the people said it will not be not a concern because when someone is able to buy a possible but because the President had made a decision, BHC high cost, that means that they can be able to get all resources were pulled towards that. In 50 days, Biden a loan from ABSA, Bank Gaborone and First National has already vaccinated 92 million people. There is a Bank (FNB). We should be concerned about the low possibility that in 100 days, we will be informed that income people who are not able to buy and do not have 100 million is now 200 million. When there is no target, the financial muscle to face the banks, so that they can it basically translates to the current situation where there be able to have accommodation. are reports that Ministers and the Vice President have taken the day off so that they celebrate a donation which So Honourable Mmusi Kgafela even if you do not will only vaccinate health officials, it is not enough. agree, I feel very-very strongly about those issues in that we should have targets on home ownership. I feel very Three issues we have with BHC which is under your strongly that today you could be telling us how many ministry; number one; it has long been said that there houses you wish to sell using the TPS this year. I want will be an introduction of Tenant Purchase Scheme you to tell us that next year, the next 12 months, how (TPS), so that your monthly rent should be taken many people from the sectional titles will get houses. as an instalment to the leased house and thus end up Do not tell me that we have a challenge that is hindering owning it. This initiative was never funded. Former us from doing that, tell me about the solutions that you Ministers never took this initiative seriously. I implore will implement within the next 12 months. Thank you you to take this initiative of TPS seriously, change Mr Speaker. your mindset Minister Mmusi so that Batswana can get accommodation. MR BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): Thank you Mr Chairperson for giving me this opportunity to Number two is Sectional Title Deed especially BHC comment on this issue by the Ministry of Infrastructure flats. The majority of BHC tenants have interest in and Housing Development for Minister Kgafela. Mr purchasing BHC flats but there is no progress as the Chairperson, I would like to tender my support to the same thing which hindered them 10 years ago still exist. Minister in his budget proposal, and we are considering a The hindrance is a Clause which allows BHC to sell to lot of issues which we want to give to him. We request… anyone but BHC policy says you cannot sell to a non- we are supporting these issues by Ministers, and we add citizen. If there are 20, 30 or 50 tenants in a block of flats our input with the belief that as we are supporting them, and one non-citizen then you will be at a disadvantage, they will understand that as we make these requests in you will not purchase those flats. They must be aware regards to our constituencies, and they attend to them. around this. If we were unable to amend as you said you wanted to amend the policy, there are measures which These are not old times Mr Chairperson, the people of can be undertaken. I am sure BHC can talk to those non- Kgalagadi do not want to be taken as incapable. We wish citizen tenants and request them to vacate the houses that when we speak as they have sent us to Parliament so that they can sell to citizen tenants. If they refuse, to advocate for them and bring their concerns before you have the right as the landlord to cancel the lease. Ministers, you take us seriously. Minister, you will You inform them that you are cancelling the lease on agree with me that we have long complained about the grounds that you want to sell flats to Batswana. If you state of Bokspits Police Station. You will agree with me approach it in the same manner as former Ministers, it that I have requested many times Honourable Member means we were wasting time by introducing this TPS that, you should make time and go to Kgalagadi District scheme. to see the kind of situation we are talking about when we talk about concerns of public officers in Kgalagadi The third and final point on BHC; I do not concur with in regards to where they work and where they sleep. Up BHC paying dividends to Government every year. until this moment, I know that you once tried to go there

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and you were told to return while you were on the way. they will build 10 more houses this coming financial Even right now, I am still waiting and I am hopeful that year. There is one that was supposed to be among those you will come there. There is a saying that says hope 20 houses which I believe will be completed on time. is not disappointing. It is not disappointing because the They will be able to start on time and be completed on person we are expecting something from ends up not time. The problem that Honourable Sam Brooks has is doing what you expected or what you agreed on. that, contractors of Kgalagadi District are spectators of projects that are implemented in their areas. Right If you can go and see the office at Bokspits you will now as BHC will be awarding tenders, it will operate come and talk to Honourable Mmusi and request money everything from Gaborone. The person who is for it, and then he will talk to you as the Minister of responsible for awarding tenders is in Gaborone, and Infrastructure and Housing Development, and you will the one who will be doing everything is from Gaborone. be talking about the situation that is there on the ground. The site foreman from Gaborone will then bring his or A situation that as the Minister of Infrastructure and her own contractors to go and implement a project at Housing Development, you can see with your eyes and Kgalagadi District. We are not saying they should not do you can touch with your hands. We have discussed these that, we are saying, will now 100 per cent of contractors things with you for a long time Honourable Member. at Kgalagadi District be spectators of programmes and The state of Hereford offices which have been in buildings of their constituency Mr Minister, no, you existence since the opening of the border, is also a are ill-treating Batswana. We should know that as we disgrace. We should admit that borders generate a lot are here, we were elected with the hope that we will of income in Botswana but really where our officers address issues so that things can change, and they are work Minister, is heart-breaking. The Botswana Unified not done like they were done in the past Honourable Revenue Service (BURS) and Immigration offices at Minister. Let us refrain from this modern tendency Hereford are similar to the ones that were used in South whereby it seems like we should disadvantage people Africa during the Apartheid Government. When we from rural areas by taking people from urban areas to go got independence in Botswana, we built those offices and build houses at the rural areas. The intelligence of which were used by people who came into Botswana people from urban areas is the same as the intelligence, and South Africa. It is a disgrace at the moment that we qualifications, skills and everything of people from rural are saying that even our children are going to continue areas. They attended the same schools for construction/ working in that kind of situation Mr Minister. building. It should not seem like other people are better than others Mr Minister. Honourable Member, we want Mr Minister, we talked a lot about Tsabong Hospital to directly address these issues, without hesitation. It which at the moment is the residence of bats and spiders, is evident that we are concerned Honourable Member. and we expect that officers and people who request for Let the contractors be utilised at rural areas. We have assistance there can operate in a hospital like that. These projects like Honourable Molale was saying; a project are the things why we are saying we request that you go of poverty eradication which produces bricks is now there to see Government buildings Honourable Member, failing because no one supports it. All the bricks are and come to support us. When we talk about Middlepits from Gaborone, sand is from Gaborone, and everything and Werda Clinics, especially the one at Middlepits, the is from Gaborone. Minister, let us use the natural one at Werda is better, not meaning that is not in a bad resources of our constituency so they can benefit the state, but the one at Middlepits, people there are going people of that constituency. to be taken by strong winds one day. I have been trying to talk about it on two or three occasions but nothing is We have long been talking about fifty something District happening. Mr Minister, these things end up making it Health Management Team (DHMT) houses that are all seem like we are not addressing those issues. over my constituency, which their construction began in 2015, and to date, there is not a single one which is Mr Minister, I do not want to argue only. Let me thank complete. We have spoken Honourable Minister, public you that your employees have just told me that they officers at rural areas have a shortage of accommodation. are about to complete 20 BHC houses. From the 20 It is heart-breaking to hear a nurse say he or she does houses, they are about to complete 19 of them. I think not have accommodation, when there is a house nearby they will meet their deadline of March 2021 like they which was supposed to be completed three years back, told me. I want to also thank you that it is evident that but it is incomplete. Mr Minister, you have to go to

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Kgalagadi District to see with your eyes the issues we Member, to try to improve this programme, when we are talking about. It should not be like we just came talk about involving Batswana in projects. to Parliament to make noise; we are talking about the disastrous situations in our constituencies. It is necessary to look at two steps; the first step is that the Government departments, because the points I will Honourable Minister, when you look at page three mention affect all the ministries, how can we strengthen where you have listed the projects you want to do to the ministries to be able to run projects better so that empower the youth, that is where we are saying as you they would be results and the quality that we need. Also, consider companies, you should consider the youth Batswana whom we want to engage in these projects, in our constituencies. On paragraph five, you should how can they be assisted so that they can produce ensure that you engage the youth of Kgalagadi as a quality projects. It is important for us to consider these cluster. Even if they are not a cluster, individually give important points. Looking at your ministry and others them projects that can help them prosper. Honourable in general, when it comes to construction services, we Minister, I support you in your request sir. We are saying find companies not completing projects. Companies take these issues and ensure that you pay attention to can abandon projects and just go away without doing our concerns sir. Do what we are requesting because anything. In some cases, one would have been awarded you are not asking for assistance this time around many projects; doing this and that at once. only, even in future you would require our support. My favourite Minister, if you do not arise and ensure When you receive the competed project, the quality of that you fulfil our requests; well, you cannot manage the building would not be impressive. The Government to fulfil all of them, but somewhere in the process as would then lose money, having paid people who are not you work on them, it should show that indeed you hear able to do the jobs, as they should. Sometimes we even the lamentations and the advice from the Members of go back to tendering, having it done afresh, and others Parliament, especially those of us who come from far. end up in courts. When we say we should give Batswana All of us here Honourable Minister, we shall continue opportunities, we do not want to find these problems not supporting you. We will continue taking the bullets on having been reduced. What can we do to chart a good your behalf. Let the public service employees be given course if we want to give the projects to Batswana? This accommodation so that that they can live well. will help us to avoid these problems going forward.

The asbestos houses; these have long been there in Let me thank you that you have showed on Paragraph Khawa. We are requesting that the asbestos clinics 4 that you will be collaborating with the various should be demolished. We have built better clinics and stakeholders so that there would be proper programmes better houses Mr Chairperson. in which Batswana could be engaged in so that they would give proper results. Consortia and joint ventures; MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Brooks. let me give the suggestions that I think could help. The Honourable Kereng, followed by Honourable Mmolotsi. first thing which we need is that we should do what is MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, NATURAL called profiles for the contractors whom we have, how RESOURCES CONSERVATION AND TOURISM many they are, as Batswana. There are those who are (MS KERENG): I thank you Mr Chairperson. Let women, youth and people living with disability. How me take this opportunity to thank you for this moment many are there in Kgalagadi as Honourable Brooks was too. I would like to agree with and support Honourable saying? Which projects can these people do based on Kgafela’s request when he talks about Government their abilities? Could it be maintenance of buildings buildings, taking care of them and giving Batswana or building new ones, massive ones? When we engage enough and good accommodation. Let me point out that them in the projects, we should have considered their this is a very important responsibility under this ministry, abilities. We should not give people more than what assisting people to have proper accommodation, and they can swallow and then in future we would say they be productive where they work. I am happy that in were not able to deliver. That profiling will assist to his report he mentioned that they intend to give local see where their ability is, and how we could divide the companies the opportunity and a role to play in the work amongst them when we tender for the projects. maintenance of Government buildings. On that note, I How can they be assisted? Who are the experts when would like to share a few points with the Honourable it comes to building and so forth? How can they assist

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those who are new? They could be assisted if there is particularly when it comes to taking appropriate steps where they are lacking skills or resources. How can where necessary. There should not be any corruption those who are already experienced assist others? Can which we just look at like that. The responsibility of the we not collaborate with the stakeholders to assist others officers who neglect the jobs; they do not check, and to form consortiums and be able to assist one another? they do not take appropriate steps. Public Procurement Sometimes a contractor can fail to deliver just because and Asset Disposal Board (PPADB) Act, Citizen they ran out of funds. Maybe this youth encountered Economic Empowerment Act will assist that the ropes some challenges and ended up…we will then say should be tightened. he has diverted the funds or they have failed. Maybe others could have mentored him or gave him certain Let me conclude with the housing development in which information so that they would support each other to do we are saying we want to improve so that Batswana the projects as issued by the Government. could have proper accommodation. On that note, we should work together. Standards of housing; what do They can be taught to run the Government services or we mean when we say dignity? When someone has do certain projects that have to do with buildings. When acquired a piece of land, no matter how small, we can tenders are floated, how can they be crafted? How say they have dignity, and what do we mean by that? do we come up with the criteria for selection? In our What are the indicators of dignity? We should learn to ministries, we have to have a proper plan as to how we build structures which match the environment, and they do these things. In the projects that are there, how much should decorate our cities and villages. We want to have are we going to give Batswana, looking at what? In that towns and cities which can be tourist attractions. With manner, we would have to improve how the ministries those few remarks sir, it might help us that when you run their projects. We already know that once we start improve the buildings and their take care of; even in the Committee of Supply Speeches, it shows that the other ministries, we should look into these things and be percentage of success or where we can achieve the able to improve how we provide services. I thank you development projects, is 15 per cent or less than 20. Mr Chairperson. How could we improve the results? It is important for us to look at the procedures, as to how do we monitor MR MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): I projects? Those in the ministries, running the projects, thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Chairperson, let me how do they report, how do they work together with the appreciate the Minister for having come up with such contractors… a report. I also appreciate the way the Minister is doing his job. It is clear that Honourable Kgafela is doing his MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Motsamai is best. Unfortunately, some Ministers are slow when it asking for elucidation. comes to implementing things that will ensure that he succeeds in what he is doing, and I hope that he will MS KERENG: Just a minute, it seems the time is continue to persuade them already up. I was long taught at primary school that shelter is a MR MOTSAMAI: Elucidation. Yes madam, thank basic need of life. We were taught that they are three; you. I am very glad when you talk about monitoring of shelter, food and clothes and we were taught this from a projects and focusing on the youth. You are referring young age. In that way Mr Chairperson, that is why the to a situation like the one I have in Charles Hill; a government of Botswana has to stand up and ensure that project was supposed to be built for P48 million, and Batswana have homes and proper shelter. Honourable then it ended up being built with P45 million. I am still Kgafela’s ministry has to act hastily because many petitioning the P3 million with the finance office. Is that Batswana could be having houses and accommodation if what you are talking about madam, that these things it was not for the procedures and laws that are currently should be looked into? Thank you. in place, which make it difficult for Batswana to have MS KERENG: You heard me very well. You should houses. help; we have to see how we could assist each other to I want to point out that there are many Batswana ensure that these contracts are completed on time. who have been wishing to buy BHC houses for many Let me accept that the Construction Industry Authority years. Honourable Kgafela was explaining that they Bill will assist that these things should be looked into are dealing with the Sectional Titles Act. This Act Mr

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Chairperson, I want to highlight that it comes from way way, people who used the TPS, most of them managed back, Honourable Kgafela is not the only one who is to buy those houses. At this point in time, ever since interested in amending this Act. We are now on the TPS stopped, Batswana no longer manage to buy houses second year but ever since he took over at that ministry, because as I explained, taking a loan is quite difficult as he has been dealing with a small issue which is the compared to when someone rents to buy. amendment of this Act. This means that many people continue to age and they are losing their jobs. Back Mr Chairperson, we also heard the former Minister then when their working conditions were favourable, saying that the youth are also going to have an they could have managed to buy houses or flats in opportunity in which flats are going to be constructed Francistown, Gaborone and so forth. So the Minister for them, flats which they would purchase through the has to decide that he has talked about this issue and now TPS. We are now shocked that the government changed it is time for implementation. the agreement in which it was said that the youth would purchase houses through that scheme. When the Mr Chairperson, there are public servants who have government changed plans, it was said that the youth been staying in pool houses for many years and we have to raise loans and be able to buy new houses like now believe that some of them own those houses. Last the newly built apartments at Tsholofelo. time I highlighted that there are some who approached Honourable Minister Mokgethi and Honourable Mmusi The other thing that the Minister promised was that Kgafela to ask for assistance, and they always plead Tsholofelo was only a pilot project, after completing to see Honourable Morwaeng because it seems like the project at Tsholofelo, the government is going to Honourable Morwaeng is their last hope when it comes construct many flats which are going to be purchased by the youth. The youth of Francistown were eagerly to the issue of selling those pool houses to them since waiting for this arrangement so that they can purchase they have been staying there for many years. It is evident those flats. Mr Chairperson, we are really concerned that Honourable Morwaeng is not interested in assisting about accommodation issues and I do not understand these poor people who wish to buy these houses. Most how the government perceives this issue, the issue that of these houses are old, some of these people are even Batswana have to own houses. retiring this year while some are retiring next year and this means that they are going to retire and lose these I am also concerned that it seems like government does houses. Ordinarily, if the moratorium on buying of pool not take care of government facilities or properties. You houses was not drafted that time, they could have long will find that there are instances whereby public servants bought those houses. Minister Kgafela, I plead that you would be given transfer hence vacating the house, and should appease these Batswana, before the mid-year, that house would remain unoccupied for the longest time up until it is vandalised. There are so many government Batswana should already be given an opportunity to buy houses in Francistown which make us question if the houses so that when they retire, they will have houses government knows they are her properties… of their own. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Hikuama is requesting We do understand that salaries for government for clarification. employees are very small when they start working and these salaries are not even enough for them to purchase MR MMOLOTSI: I am only left with two minutes, houses, but by the time their salaries improve, they and I want to address this last issue. It appears as if the would already be approaching retirement. So in that government does not know that those are government way, these are the very same people who the government facilities. should assist so that they can be able to own houses. It is not only an issue of houses, there are some offices There are some Batswana who were fortunate enough which have been abandoned. There are BHC houses and to buy houses using the Tenant Purchase Scheme which offices; abandoned structures which could have been was there in the past. They managed to buy houses allocated to some people or the government could even through that scheme because it is very difficult to raise a be using those offices so that people can work under loan to buy a house, more especially because we know good conditions. that it would be said that although the loan is like that, you have to go and look for Value Added Tax (VAT) and I applaud the Minister for continuing with the initiative pay it because the loan did not include that VAT. In that in which he is intending to empower Batswana by

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giving them construction jobs. Botswana was built by working with Department of Facilities Management and Batswana owed companies. Botswana was built by another one which separates infrastructure development companies which are owned by South Africans who and project infrastructure planning. As they have been trained Batswana. So as time went on, they government separated, it means each department will carry out its abandoned Batswana owned companies and chose the mandate with the seriousness it deserves. Although he Chinese companies. Minister, we plead that this time has mentioned that due to budgetary constraints, old around we should give back these projects to Batswana. buildings which could be refurbished will not as they Batswana have ample experience, they have contractors cost a lot, let this be a lesson to us that we should not of higher scales, and they can construct houses of higher leave buildings to become dilapidated and we should standard. It is not necessary to see Chinese companies have preventative maintenance. doing construction projects in our country, the size of the building does not even matter. Mr Chairperson, I think people will benefit from this idea. We appreciate that the Ministry of Local Government Minister, I also appreciate that you are talking about non- and other ministries have programmes which try to funding of projects. When we have huge projects, we assist Batswana in rural areas by building them houses such as Integrated Poverty Alleviation (IPA), Self Help should try and divide them so that many Batswana or... Housing Agency (SHAA) and Destitute Housing. These (Interruption)… many of them can be able to take part are different programmes which are available to assist in the construction of those buildings. That arrangement but they are strewn all over. My wish is that the Ministry can help in such a way that many Batswana will be able of Infrastructure and Housing can take these projects to generate income. and house them under one department which they will This can also ensure that our funds are planted back call Rural Housing Development (RHD) which can into the country, instead of awarding these projects to assist Batswana. There are many Batswana especially foreigners who will then take our funds back to their in my constituency at Shoshong who are poor. Building country since we know that we do not have foreign for themselves is a challenge. If these programmes can exchange controls as a country. This means that locals be implemented throughout, Motswana in areas where do not benefit anything from those projects. When these it was shown that poverty is prevalent can be allocated projects are awarded to Batswana, it means that we are a plot and have his or her house built through Destitute getting into the situation whereby funds are used locally Housing programme as a way of providing them with and the economy improves. shelter. What I am saying is, this assessment can be done by Local Government since they have the expertise. Minister, stand up and ensure that Francistown Senior They know how to identify a poor person who does not School (FSS) is completed. The construction of this have the means to help themselves. They can compile school took many years and it seems like those buildings recommendations and forward them to the Ministry of are ghost houses. Try and ensure that that school is Infrastructure and Housing that the Government should completed. Construction lasted for many years, and build houses for poor Batswana who do not have the learners are now using those buildings for mischievous means to help themselves. deeds; they smoke cigarettes in those buildings because their construction lasted for a long period of time. Thank I have seen the figures of people they build houses for in you Mr Chairperson. rural areas. They are not enough Mr Chairperson. They should be assisted by other ministries with funds they MR LESASO (SHOSHONG): Thank you Mr have disbursed to them which they are not using to be Chairperson. Thank you for giving me an opportunity able to build houses for Batswana. to debate on the budget proposal for the Ministry of Infrastructure and Housing where Honourable Minister Mr Chairperson, let me move on to the issue of wastage. Kgafela is doing a good job. He is doing his best when The Ministry of Infrastructure and Housing is one of it comes to developing the infrastructure in Botswana. the ministries which use a lot of funds in infrastructure. As it has been mentioned that there are several projects I must commend them because last year I said they which cannot be completed on time, they should have should look into the issue of maintaining old buildings a monitoring programme to ensure that projects are which cost our country a lot of money which at the carried out responsibly and within set timeframes in end does not benefit us. I am glad that they are now contracts. I was thinking we should have a programme

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called Project Performances Investigation Unit which business. These are some of the things to consider that will include Auditor General to investigate why projects they should be trained on. are not done efficiently, timely and within budget. Mr Chairperson, there is this issue where the Ministry They should find out what is happening between the of Infrastructure and Housing intends to allow other contractor and the employer so that we can be able to ministries to build their own infrastructure. It is going to deliver projects that Government need to serve people. be difficult because it seems other ministries do not have For instance Mr Chairperson; right now a clinic is built resources, staff and systems which can be able to carry at Dibete but the road leading there and electricity out the needed projects. They should consider those to connection were not part of that package. The building expand their systems since they have three departments. of nurses’ quarters has not commenced but when the They should be capacitated in building Government clinic is finished, everything should be done and ready infrastructure so that they can have the same standard, for utilisation. Actually, employees should also assist. value and programmes instead of having everyone We give them funds to plan for these things to go do their own thing because it is evident that there is smoothly. We need to find out what the problem is when shortage of resources. This indicates that they are not you are given the responsibility of building a clinic and doing enough. when it opens we are told that there are certain things which were not done and so forth. These are some of the With those words Mr Chairperson, I rest my case. Thank things that we need to look into Minister and see how you. regulations can be amended for the benefit of Batswana. MR TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): Thank you Honourable Minister, I do not want to conclude without very much Chairperson. Let me quickly rush to the talking about Shoshong Senior Secondary School, of debate because we do not have time. I also want to which I have asked you to visit last year and you honoured support you Honourable Mmusi, you are a new member that invitation with the Minister of Basic Education and so work hard as you have heard our concerns. It is his Assistant. I hope that from the funds that you will clear that all these technical ministries being; yours, be allocated this financial year Honourable Minister, Honourable Mzwinila and Honourable Segokgo’s, the the Ministry of Basic Education will work with you and 37 per cent of the funds which are said to be wasted are assist this school with funds. Another painful incident in your ministry Honourable Kgafela. I think you must was when students at this school contracted COVID-19. look into that. You start with a small budget and then There were 45 students with no mattress to sleep on funds end up increasing. You talked about employment during isolation and study in a peaceful environment. in your ministry. I also want you to take this issue into consideration, I once talked about employment creation Mr Chairperson, right now we have been given in the construction industry in Parliament. I think we Mahutagane school which is going to be an integrated have to come up with various payments. For example; …(inaudible) upgraded, a school that you will take yes, you might be employing a lot of people but it is for a care of. It comes with certain resources needed for that very short term such that, there is nothing that someone type of school. Honourable Minister, hasten to assist who worked in the construction industry can show for that school that even when teachers have shortage of having worked there. For example, the current wage bill accommodation, at least classrooms should be in good permissible for charging labourers is insignificant if they condition. Those are things needed at Mahutagane work for a short term. I once proposed that we should School. come up with a payment plan for six months contracts, Honourable Minister, contractors awarded these projects which should vary from a two year or five-year contract should be trained. Contractors need to be taught that because there, there is security of tenure. The six months they are engaged in business and should therefore learn contract is just exploiting the workers. The thing is, how to run it and not just think that they are just going contractors expect these people to work day and night to to make money. They should run the business in such a point where a six months contract lasts for four months, a way that even though they are getting paid, they owe then they tell them that their job has ended, and they end the employer a sense of responsibility. There should up going home. Sir, this thing is a major concern for be a programme that contractors attend because some Batswana. It impoverishes Batswana, especially since have a qualification for building but not for managing a your ministry engages foreign companies. As my other

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colleagues said, they go back to their countries without achieved this and that. They tell me that their houses are leaving any thebe as soon as they get paid. They cannot not turnkey. When we say turnkey, it means that you even build small rooms nor do anything for the country simply get a key for a complete house. Unfortunately, with that money. So I am also … you hand incomplete houses to people and tell them that you have run out of funds and therefore there is nothing MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR that you can do. You also ask them to source funds from MOLAO): On a point of procedure. Thank you Mr somewhere. The turnkey house is handed without a Chairperson. In short, I believe the Honourable Member roof, doors and not painted … made a mistake when he said makonteraka (labourers) are underpaid. I do not believe he intentionally used this DR TSHABANG: On a point of elucidation. Thank kind of word. Thank you Mr Chairperson. you Mr Chairperson. Honourable Tshere, you talked about wastage where construction companies take MR TSHERE: Honourable Molao you are wasting my longer than the agreed timeframes. I usually give an time. example of Maitengwe Police Station which I usually complain about with Honourable Kgafela. It was built MR CHAIRPERSON(MR PULE): Honourable in 2017 and was supposed to be completed in 2019. As Tshere, maybe you should clarify what you meant by that, maybe it makes sense to you. we speak, it does not have target as to when to it is going to be completed. It has just been abandoned like that. MR TSHERE: It make sense Chair. We usually refer So let me support you, maybe Honourable Kgafela will to contractors as borakonteraka. So they also have take action since we are concerned about the issue of labourers who are referred to as makonteraka. He knows, wastage. Thank you very much. their employment terms are not good. Their contracts last for a short term and they are also underpaid. MR TSHERE: Thank you very much Honourable Dr Tshabang. That is what I am talking about. I am also MR MOLAO: That is what I am trying to correct. concerned about Mahalapye, he highlighted Mahalapye Some of the words that we use as Members of Prisons. I went there around 2019 when elections were Parliament (MPs), where we call others makonteraka, ongoing. They were building a new fence, I even read are inappropriate. You must correct that. from the newspapers that they spent over half a billion; P500 million was spent at Mahalapye. I am shocked MR CHAIRPERSON: He clarified it, he said he is right now to hear that the contractor has abandoned the referring to labourers. It means he does not have a word site. That they left without completing the project while … (Inaudible)…he is referring to those who signed for we spent that kind of money. On this note, I support contracts with their companies. you Honourable Kgafela, let us assess these issues and MR MOLAO: Mr Chairperson, maybe we should assist finalise them. him with a word that he can use because, it appears like Let me move on to talk about engineers’ registration the whole Parliament approves the use of that word. and architect registration; I think we have to review MR TSHERE: Do not worry, I will use an English the whole registration process of Government because word, the technicians and labourers who work for those registration prices are just way too high… companies. They are underpaid because construction MR CHAIRPERSON: Order! Honourable Member, contracts last for a short-term, some of them last for six your time is up! I now call upon the Honourable Minister months or two months but they are paid at a standard of Infrastructure and Housing Development to reply to wage price that was set blanketly. That is why I am the debate. Honourable Minister Kgafela. saying, you must assess this thing Minister; if it is a short term contract, a labourer should get better payment. If it …Silence… is a longer contract; if it last for two to five years, maybe we can use our usual wage bill. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Maybe he is not around and therefore I can conclude my debate Mr Chair. Let me move on to talk about Self Help Housing Agency (SHHA). I also plead with you to assess it Minister. MR CHAIRPERSON: No sir, I do not want confusion. People are complaining to me at Mahalapye while Honourable Minister can you go ahead. you claim that we have SHHA figures to show that we HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!)...

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MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, can you MR CHAIRPERSON: Go ahead Honourable Minister! go ahead. Go ahead Honourable Kgafela! You are audible sir, go ahead. …Silence… MR KGAFELA: Hello. HONOURABLE MEMBER: It looks like he is saying something but we cannot hear him. MR CHAIRPERSON: Go ahead Minister, go ahead! Honourable Minister, go ahead! MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, can you ask the Information Technology (IT) expect to help you HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are audible. that side. MR KGAFELA: Hello. …Silence… HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are giving the likes HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!)... of Gobotswang the platform, we can hear you.

MR CHAIRPERSON: … Honourable Kgafela, we MR KGAFELA: I cannot hear. cannot hear you. We cannot hear you at all, Honourable Kgafela, you are completely inaudible. MR CHAIRPERSON: We can hear you. Go ahead, we can hear you. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Unmute yourself. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Put him to order Mr MR KGAFELA: Am I audible? Chairperson. MR CHAIRPERSON: We can hear you sir! HONOURABLE MEMBER: That is what he wants MR KGAFELA: Okay, these things are a problem. as my Kgosi. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Let us pass him Mr MR CHAIRPERSON: Go ahead. Chairperson, he does not want money. MR KGAFELA: Okay. I heard the Honourable MR CHAIRPERSON: We cannot pass him sir. Members different opinions and I believe that the majority of them miscomprehended me. Let me HONOURABLE MEMBER: His time is up; he will indicate that there is no assignment that I ever fail to never get the funds. do, the reason why I am ...(inaudible)… by Honourable MR CHAIRPERSON: He still has time, he is eating Saleshando. I do not agree with it. I was still planning on his time. on how to execute the task you gave me. The reason is, we have many Batswana working and studying in HONOURABLE MEMBER: I want the P3 million of other countries. I am of the view that, if we start evicting the Finance road at Charles Hill. foreigners from buildings we rented to them, our fellow HONOURABLE MEMBER: Let us go back to the citizens might face the same fate in other countries, point Honourable Saleshando raised earlier when he “this is the practice in Botswana so we also have to do was concluding. the same thing.”

HONOURABLE MEMBER: It was nice. Let me further assure you Honourable Saleshando that the stumbling block I found, was not to sell units HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… of Botswana Housing Corporation (BHC) flats. I am referring to the old ones. I quickly rushed although MR KGAFELA: Am I audible? the amendment of the policy does not fall under my MR CHAIRPERSON: You are audible but there is an ministry. I urged Honourable Mzwinila since he is echo. Call Information Technology (IT) officers. responsible for land to go to the cabinet and request for that stumbling block to be removed. That is the same HONOURABLE MEMBER: They will have to test stumbling block you are aware of Honourable, that in the Electronic Voting Machine (EVM) at Ramotswa. order for your request of sectional title to be approved, MR KGAFELA: May I kindly proceed. you should present evidence that you opened the

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invitation to each and every tenant to express interest to One of the things the Honourable Member talked buy. We now have a complaint that immovable property about, if I heard him clearly was, why is BHC paying should not be placed at the hands of non-citizens. We dividends? That is not true Honourable Member, BHC encountered problems that even if we made attempts to is not paying dividends. I do admit that in the past it used sell these units we are compelled to sell to non-citizens to pay but it no longer does that because it is supposed and we will be in contradiction with the law which is to to pay tax; corporate tax. That is what it is paying. place immovable property at the hands of non-citizens. Let me assure you that, I have faith that we are going MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, there to complete the amendment of this policy. It is true that is a request for clarification from Honourable Dr there were attempts to amend but those attempts were Gobotswang. futile, the reason being, the procedure followed was wrong. It was going to fluff feathers. We have currently MR KGAFELA: I yield Honourable Mr Chairperson. managed to identify exactly what that stumbling block DR GOBOTSWANG: Thank you Minister, maybe is. After removing it, there will be an open invitation before you pass the issue of protecting people whose including those who are not tenants to express interest houses have been repossessed, we wanted to know without any stumbling block to hinder them to do so. whether you understand the current situation at your We just need to remove that part. Ministry? The main concern is that, it seems like there is a plan by some stakeholders to repossess the houses Honourable Saleshando debated but I do not know if of people who are not able to pay for their mortgages, he supports me as his statements were different from then they sell them at inappropriate prices, and the other members’ regarding targets. Hey! Sometimes person will continue to be owed money. Do you know Honourable Members set targets but when they fail to the intensity of that situation and how do you intent to achieve… First of all targets breeds expectations. So it is assist? I did not hear you explain and I want you to get not neat to constantly make promises and after that you back to that issue because that is really a great concern do not achieve them most of the time. You are unable Honourable Minister? to reach those targets due to unforeseen circumstances. Of course we usually set targets although we do not MR KGAFELA: I was never informed of this situation. publicly share them. As I indicated in my presentation Let me explain that the law is clear Honourable we set targets in some of the programmes we introduced Member, if you fail to pay for something and it ends such as Self Help Housing Agency (SHHA) and so on. up being repossessed, when it is being auctioned, it is However we are close to achieving majority of them. not allowed to be sold at the original price, when it is sold in the open market, it is unbelievably low. Let me It will be difficult to set a target for a graduate to own encourage Batswana that when they find themselves in a home. There are many factors which may make it those situations, they have the right to appeal to court possible or hinder the graduate from owning a house. and say, even though my property is auctioned because One of those factors is employment. What is your I failed to pay for it, it is sold at a low price. I am sternly achievement financially because nothing is for free, saying this, and I am clear that the law does not allow money is the centre for everything. that, any judge will listen to them and will give them what they were requesting for. I have also not been The Honourable Member also raised a point regarding notified about that situation whereby a group of people the efforts we are undertaking in homeownership are repossessing people’s houses, which they are now protection during COVID-19. Should we not be the ones selling at low prices Honourable Member. leading in ensuring there is homeownership protection? Banks should not evict people from houses. It is not a HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR good suggestion. There is no person who would like to TSOGWANE): On a point of elucidation. Minister, see another person failing to pay a mortgage to extent of before you move from the issue by Honourable being evicted with their family. However these are things Members that BHC should stop taking its dividends we cannot manage alone, we should work together. to Government, let me remind you Minister, you Is it sustainable for banks? If it is not sustainable, the have reminded them as it is not the first time this is measures we will place will make them turn against us mentioned. A few days ago when you made a statement so we do not wish to take that route. about BHC, those questions were there, and this is

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how you answered them. So I do not know if you do a programme that will benefit someone who is already not realise that asking these questions, is not like they a tenant because they will already be occupying this do not know that dividends are not paid? They are just house, and then they can make a request to now buy it asking so that people out there think that BHC is paying so that they are not just simple tenants. In most cases dividends, so you do not have to tell them what you said when they do that, an assessment is made to determine in the past. They are not talking about the past because their age, their occupation and how far they are from it was only last week when you explained this, and you retirement. So, if they are buying, they are going to be also said people should go and appeal. You indicated given a limited period to pay for that house. This means that people should maybe not appeal the issue of rents that, this is going to affect the money one has to pay for because those houses are not in their names, they are that house. In most cases due to those reasons, you will renting them from people at the market price, and that find that the amount that one pays goes up because of is the issue you wanted to address. So they are afraid the period that they are given to pay for the house. Let of appealing because the houses are not in their names. me explain that that scheme is still available. They should not say it was not a programme for appeal since you spoke, and you indicated that everyone should The one that is not available is the one for instalment go and appeal during this time of COVID-19, so do purchase, which was established for Tsholofelo flats. It you not realise that these are issues that are spoken by is the one that was said... people who know? I do not think there is any Member of MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, there is Parliament (MP) who does not know which parastatals a request for clarification from Honourable Sethomo are paying dividends and which ones are not. Lelatisitswe.

MR KGAFELA: Thank you Honourable Vice MR KGAFELA: Hey, he should be brief Honourable President. That may be true as I often hear Honourable Members, or else I am not going to answer other Members ask a lot about dividends. I even heard questions. Honourable Pono Moatlhodi ask about it. Just to be fair to them Honourable Vice President, I have a belief that ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND most of them as I look at those who are asking, are a bit WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): On a point older and they should still be in the era; it was at a time of clarification. Thank you Honourable Member, I did when dividends were still paid. I am not denying that not have the chance to comment, I thought maybe... dividends used to be paid, I think that maybe they did (interruption)… not move ahead of time, they are not attached to the fact that now we have changed. Partly they are correct when Thank you so much. I said I did not get the chance to they talk about dividends. Just... comment, I wanted Minister to explain to the people of Boteti that... (inaudible)... so many years, it is better you HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR explain to them how far you are with it? TSOGWANE): On a point of elucidation. Mr Chairperson, it seems like he did not hear me properly. MR KGAFELA: I did not hear that? I am saying, Honourable Minister, you have talked about this two weeks ago, do you think they were not MR LELATISITSWE: I was saying the people of there to listen to you. Did you not answer on the issue Letlhakane have long waited for a police station. of dividends when you spoke in your statement? Yes or Honourable Member, thank you for the job you no? are doing, and can you explain to the people about Letlhakane police station because it has been at your MR KGAFELA: Yes Honourable Member, I was ministry for so many years… straightforward, I clearly explained that BHC does not pay dividend but it pays tax; that is what I said. MR KGAFELA: I know the situation of the police station. Let me move on and say, I heard Honourable Member say we are not zealous about the Tenant Purchase MR SALESHANDO: On a point of order. Mr Scheme (TPS), and we have discontinued it because of Chairperson, you should advise him, Minister should invalid reasons. Let me say, if I clearly understand this, respond to the issues that were addressed, if we are going TPS programme is still there, and talks are ongoing. It is to allow what is being done by Honourable Lelatisitswe

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where he says he did not get the chance to speak and discussed, and it seems it will come to an end. We are then he tells us issues we should speak about, that means expediting it, so that it can be agreed to, that each pool it will provoke others who were not able to speak, who house should be sold to the sitting tenants. I have written will then say let me also talk about a certain clinic in that in my statement Honourable Members. my constituency, and the Minister will not get time to respond to these issues. So, I am saying just advise Let me now talk about the contracts, about construction Honourable Lelatisitswe from sufficient experience of work that is awarded. It is true there were companies knowing that what he is doing is not allowed by the and some still exist even now, which are owned by Standing Orders. Batswana. As time went on, it is true Honourable Molale MR CHAIRPERSON: You are noted very well. The that they were augmented and as time went on again, we other thing Honourable Leader of the Opposition, it do not know what happened amongst us. It then meant was agreed at the caucus that we cannot all talk, and a that foreign companies arrived, and they put the local list was established. So I do not expect people who say companies at a disadvantage. They apply for tenders they did not speak to now sneak in by including their and when an assessment is made, it is discovered that questions. Even yesterday I realised that this thing was their prices are too low. Actually, they cannot compete happening. This is the last of doing that. with Batswana. I do accept that this happened and one can accept that there was a time when we blinked, and Honourable Minister also has time allocated to him, his discovered that we were interrupted by such things. By time is running out and there are so many requests from the time we woke up, Batswana were already oppressed. him. That is why we are running helter skelter trying to ensure MR KGAFELA: In conclusion, the issues which were that the maintenance contracts are given to companies addressed by Honourable Saleshando, I heard him say owned by Batswana. I vehemently asked whether accommodation is a right. We are in a race to ensure that companies that fall under If he can look at my statement properly, as it is written Category E, which is open to ensuring that at least 50 in English, I explained that it is a basic human need, I per cent… did not say it is a basic human right. When you look into that issue and analyse it, it can be said that it is a MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, there is a socio-economic right, but it is not a legal right which request for clarification by Honourable Morwaeng. you can enforce in courts of law. Socio-economic right is whereby it will depend on how rich the country is MR KGAFELA: I yield Mr Chairperson. so that that expectation under the total economic right MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL can be enforced. I wanted to clarify it because when he AFFAIRS, GOVERNNANCE AND PUBLIC began his statement, he made it seem like I said that, ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): and that meant that all his argument was premised on Clarification. Mr Chairperson… me saying that. I wanted to clarify it, I did not say that. MR CHAIRPERSON: Continue Honourable Let me go back and say, I will summarise issues by other Morwaeng. Honourable Members because some of them were talking about the same thing. They spoke about pool houses, MR MORWAENG: Let me ask Honourable Kgafela I think it was Honourable Mmolotsi, that we should because there were allegations that in Molepolole South consider selling them to the Government employees. or in Molepolole, Botswana Housing Corporation It is true, Honourable Morwaeng is not against this at (BHC) was going to build houses but it was prevented all. We are busy talking about this issue, and it is true by the issue of water. I request that your ministry should that Honourable Mokgethi once came to me asking for make a follow up on this especially because Honourable accommodation for the public service employees who Mzwinila is going to bring water for us, that maybe you are staying in these houses in Gaborone, to have them should consider this issue because now water is coming. sold to them. There is no one who is refusing. There Will the BHC houses that were supposed to be built in were a few debates at the beginning, because others Molepolole come? were saying ‘since we were in the waiting list, and we are public service employees like others, why are we MR KGAFELA: I have noted the question. We are not given the opportunity as well?’ This issue is being in a race to ensure that Category E, 50 per cent of the

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projects is given to Batswana. Although we have put a 50 per cent quota, when I had a chat with the President, he asked me to pick it up to 60 per cent. We are rushing to ensure that that is done, going forward.

One of the things we are doing, as I have explained is unbundling the projects, so that we would remove them from Category E and have them fall under Category D, going down because once we unbundle them, the cost goes down; it does not become one large piece of work which requires to be in Category E, this is one of the things we are doing to unbundle the existing projects.

In short, we have observed that situation that if we fail to arise, we will find most projects being done by foreigners. Even at BHC, we are in a race to ensure that the maintenance and so forth, even the Self-Help Housing Agency (SHHA) projects should be awarded to Batswana. Honourable Sam Brooks was lamenting that in Kgalagadi it seems people are coming from Gaborone to carry out projects in his constituency. There is Local Economic Empowerment Programme (LEEP) at BHC, when we build the SHHA houses, we ensure that the projects are given to the local contractor in the area which the house would be built in.

Still talking about SHHA houses, I know the complaint is that some of them which have been handed were not even roofed. Let me explain that a long time ago, when SHHA started, an individual was given funds to build a house for themselves. As they would be embarking on this project, they would sometimes use part of the money to pay for school fees which means that the house would not be complete. A decision was taken that BHC should be the one building these SHHA houses, being in total control of the funds and the owners should no longer be given the funds directly. Let me point out that, I have not received any report indicating that a house that was built by BHC was handed over being in an incomplete state. I am not saying if they are there, my door is closed; those who have complaints are welcome. They can come and report if there is anything special… MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, you have a minute to conclude your response. MR KGAFELA: Mr Chairperson, I know that even if I am remaining with one minute and I am told that I should move, let me explain that the way I understand the Standing Orders, I long moved yesterday when I started my statement, so I will not move Mr Chairperson because I have already done so. I think we have talked about this before, as to when a Member should move. So right at the beginning, that is where I move. If you can look at Standing Order 40.1, it indicates that the very first words you speak that is where you move. What I am doing is replying to what they have already said. If my time is up Mr Chairperson, let me assure the Honourable Members that everything they have said here, we are working on it so that it can be implemented. Cyclic maintenance and so forth, we do acknowledge that if we take a long time without doing anything to a building it becomes extremely expensive to maintain. You will also find out that the shortage of funds also gives us a headache, because ministries would not have budgeted for maintenance. It is a bit heavy on us as the implementers. So how do we maintain when we do not have any budget for maintenance? We encourage ministries that when they budget, they should accommodate funds for the maintenance of their buildings. For us to take all the buildings, this is not something I can refuse. That was the case before and it was said when it is centralised there are delays. Even if there a hiccups in this case, we take time to come... MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Members, I am now going to put a question because the Minister’s time is up. The question is that the sum of Four Hundred and Ninety-Seven Million and Fifteen Thousand and Seven Hundred Pula (P497,015,700) for Organisation No. 2300 in the Schedule stands part of the Schedule and the Revised Total Estimated Costs for Sub-Organisations in Organisation No. 2300 in the Development Fund Estimates stands part of those Estimates. We are now going to vote.

CLERK:

MEMBER’S NAME YES NO ABSTAIN ABSENT His Excellency Dr Mokgweetsi Eric Masisi Honourable Kgotla Kenneth Autlwetse

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MEMBER’S NAME AYE NO ABSTAIN ABSENT Hon. Mpho Balopi √ Hon. Yandani Boko √ Hon. Sam Justice Brooks √ Hon. Honest Buti Billy √ Hon. Dr Edwin Gorataone Dikoloti √ Hon. Dr Unity Dow √ Hon. Karabo Socraat Gare √ Hon. Dr Kesitegile Gobotswang √ Hon. Christian Greeff √ Hon. Kainangura Caterpillar Hikuama √ Hon. Liakat Kablay √ Hon. Kenny Kiniotiro Kapinga √ Hon. Goretetse Kekgonegile √ Hon. Dithapelo Lefoko Keorapetse √ Hon. Philda Kereng √ Hon. Mmusi Kgafela √ Hon. Tshekedi Stanford Khama √ Hon. Dr Lemogang Kwape √ Hon. Leepetswe Lesedi √ Hon. Sethomo Lelatisitswe √ Hon. Aubrey Lesaso √ Hon. Dr Douglas Letsholathebe √ Hon. Thapelo Letsholo √ Hon. Friction Tshoganetso Leuwe √ Hon. Taolo Boipuso Lucas √ Hon. Polson Majaga √ Hon. Nnaniki Wilhemina Tebogo Makwinja √ Hon. Beauty Manake √ Hon. Tumisang Mangwegape-Healy √ Hon. Baratiwa Mathoothe √ Hon. Dr Thapelo Matsheka √ Hon. Wynter Boipuso Mmolotsi √ Hon. Kagiso Thomas Mmusi √ Hon. Simon Nkosana Moabi √ Hon. Lefoko Maxwell Moagi √ Hon. Pono Pearson Patson Moatlhodi √ Hon. Setlhabelo Naser Modukanele √ Hon. Anna Maria Mokgethi √ Hon. Eric Mothibi Molale √ Hon. Fidelis Macdonald Molao √ Hon. Molebatsi Shimane Molebatsi √

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Hon. Talita Monnakgotla √ Hon. Kabo Neale Sechele Morwaeng √ Hon. Mokwaledi Ignatius Moswaane √ Hon. Palelo Keitseope Motaosane √ Hon. Motsamai Gabantema Jelson Motsamai √ Hon. Dumezweni Meshack Mthimkhulu √ Hon. Kefentse Mzwinila √ Hon Kgoberego Nkawana √ Hon. Tumiso Macdonald Rakgare √ Hon. Onneetse Ramogapi √ Hon. Mephato Reatile √ Hon. Oabile Regoeng √ Hon. Dumelang Saleshando √ Hon. Thulagano Merafe Segokgo √ Hon. Peggy Serame √ Hon. Machana Ronald Shamukuni √ Hon. Johane Luther-Tine Thiite √ Hon. Dr Never Tshabang √ Hon. David Tshere √ Hon. Slumber Tsogwane √

…Silence…

MR MOATLHODI: Procedure. Thank you Mr Chairperson. Good afternoon sir. In all fairness to Honourable Mmusi Kgafela, Standing Order 47.1 has got nothing to do with the work that we have just done. According to the procedures of this House, the nomenclature of this House, the Honourable Minister has always moved to the effect of that, as it is always done. I pray Mr Chairperson, let us be concerned. Today in all fairness, we are out of procedure. I may not at this juncture come to a particular Standing Order that says this, but our procedures have always done that way. I take this time to appeal to our Clerk to come with the right Standing Orders. Thank you. MR CHAIRPERSON: I agree with you P.P.P. that the nomenclature of this House is for the mover to move twice at the beginning and when you are at the end. We were limited in terms of time, that is why I had put a question. My understanding is that once I have put a question as the Speaker, then you will respond to that question. Like you are saying, it is something that I do not want us to debate here because Honourable Kgafela argued his understanding of the Standing Orders. So, give us the chance to go and relook at it and then we correct this. I think by tomorrow, I should be coming with an answer.

MR MOATLHODI: Please!

MR CHAIRPERSON: Because he is arguing deliberately and I am not a lawyer. So, which means he wants to refer to my lawyer as well, to find out whether what he said is true or not. But as a matter of fact, I moved the question. I had put a question to you which was rubberstamping what he did when he started the presentation because he moved as a proposer. My understanding is that at the end of his response to the debate, he may still have to make the final movement before the Speaker puts the question. But he argued it and there was no time. That is why we decided to put the question because it is legal and therefore, we continue. Let me plead with you Honourable Members to give us a chance to look at this thing and then we give an answer tomorrow. I mean there is a possibility of bringing this tomorrow. Thank you very much.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…

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MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Kgafela, I had said in the delivery of quality basic education during the 12 let us not argue with this. We will discuss it outside this months’ period. House. We do not want to spend time on something which will not benefit us. Let me consult my lawyer and REVIEW OF MAJOR ACTIVITIES see if she has a similar interpretation of the Standing UNDERTAKEN BY THE MINISTRY Orders. Like I have said on the Standing Order 2.1, I Mr Chairperson, in total, the Ministry of Basic made a final decision to put a question to the House and Education was allocated a Budget of Ten Billion and then move onto the vote. The fact that when we started Fifty-Nine Million Eight Hundred and Ninety-Nine the presentation, we moved and then I had put a question Thousand and Forty Pula only (P10, 059, 899, 040) for as well, that gives me the strength to go on with the both the Recurrent and Development Budgets during process. Like Honourable Members are worried, I want the 2020/2021 financial year. you to give us a chance to look at the Standing Orders and find out whether we have a similar interpretation. An amount of Eight Hundred and Seventy-Four Million, We will definitely consult Honourable Kgafela. I do not Four Hundred and Ten Thousand Pula (P874, 410, 000) want us to argue because we do not have time. was allocated for Development Budget. Out of this, the ministry has spent Four hundred and Thirty-Eight Honourable Members, here are the results of your votes, million, Seven hundred and Forty-Seven thousand, aye; 46, no; nothing, abstain; one absent; 16. The ayes Six hundred and Sixty-Nine Pula (P438, 747, 669). have it. This denotes a 50.2 per cent expenditure of the budget Question put and agreed to. as at end of February 2021. The low expenditure is due to procurement delays associated with movement ORGANISATION 0600-MINISTRY OF restrictions, lack of capacity in project and contract BASIC EDUCATION management.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Members, please The funds were used to implement five programmes note and I repeat, please note that 2 hours 25 minutes… I under my ministry, namely; Computerisation, Secondary am respecting this because I understand that Honourable Education, Special Education, Consultancies, and Members even when they are given this allocation, they support for Botswana Examination Council (BEC). do not keep it in their minds. They still continue to argue An amount Mr Chairperson of Nine Billion One on what will eat on our time. So, this item is given 2 Hundred and Eighty-Five Million, Four Hundred and hours 25 minutes. I will now give it to this organisation Eighty-Nine Thousand and Forty Pula (P9, 185, 489, and I shall call upon the Honourable Minister to reply to 040) was allocated for Recurrent Budget. Out of this, debate on Monday. the ministry has spent Seven Billion, Six Hundred and MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR Forty-Seven Million, Two Hundred and Twenty-Six MOLAO): Thank you Mr Chairperson. Am I audible? Thousand Four Hundred and Seventy-Seven Pula (P7, 647, 226, 477). This denotes 83 per cent expenditure as MR CHAIRPERSON: You are Honourable Minister. at mid-February. The balance will mainly be used to pay March salaries. MR MOLAO: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Chairperson, I present this Budget request for the COVID-19 IN EDUCATION financial year 2021/2022 against the back-drop of debilitating effects of COVID-19 in the education sector Mr Chairperson, following the outbreak of the COVID-19 and the country at large. We have lost a number of our pandemic after the approval by this Honourable House colleagues to COVID related ailments, and teaching and of the 2020/2021 Budget, my ministry had to respond learning has been greatly disrupted across the country. and prepare schools for COVID-19 compliance which I wish to pay homage to our heroes and heroines who included the putting up of hand wash stations in have succumbed to this virus, and wish to say their lives schools, reviewing timetable to accommodate shifting, will not go in vain, we will continue where they left off. reducing class sizes for social distancing, recruitment of temporary teachers, recruitment of Safety Health and Allow me Mr Chairperson to share my presentation with Environment (SHE) officers for monitoring compliance, the Honourable House on progress made by my ministry provision of thermometers for temperature screening,

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maintenance of ablutions and maintenance of schools in EDUCATION AND TRAINING SECTOR general. It should be noted that the closure of schools and STRATEGIC PLAN (ETSSP) disruption of curriculum were necessary to create a safe environment for learners and staff. A school reopening Mr Chairperson, Government has approved the manual was issued to guide schools on adherence to implementation of the Education and Training Sector COVID-19 protocols to ensure safety in schools. The Strategic Plan (ETSSP) which is the ministry’s roadmap school calendar was accordingly amended to ensure for transforming education and supporting Botswana’s learners covered the syllabus and were adequately ambition to graduate from a resource to a knowledge prepared for examinations. I take this moment to based economy. With the COVID-19 pandemic depleting commend school leadership, teachers, support staff in our resources, these reforms are more relevant now than schools and regions, and Ministry Headquarters for the ever as Botswana needs to rely on its own knowledge hard work in pulling together to ensure the safe return and skills to drive innovation and other sectors of the to schools. economy such as manufacturing.

My ministry and other stakeholders continue to Through the implementation of the ETSSP, curriculum implement and monitor COVID-19 protocols in schools. is being overhauled, and other flagship programmes Generally, our schools have been found to be complaint undertaken which include the rollout of Early Childhood although challenges remain on compliance in wearing Care, School Leadership Training, the development of masks properly particularly when learners leave the of an Outcome Based Education (OBE) curriculum school premises. It is therefore, crucial for all of us to for senior secondary schools, and the introduction of strictly adhere to COVID-19 protocols and guide our multiple education pathways for learners to access higher learners beyond the school premises to remain safe, education, as well as the introduction of e-learning at all including in public transport. levels.

Mr Chairperson, the increasing number of positive The senior secondary school curriculum has been cases of COVID-19 in schools and the loss of lives reviewed. To date, all the planned 38 subjects for senior by staff, is causing psychological stress. In response, secondary level have been developed, checked and my ministry provides psychosocial support aimed at quality assured for implementation. The ministry will improving general wellbeing through interventions implement the new subjects in a phased approach; where aimed at capacitation, mental readiness, motivation three phases of implementation are planned with Phase-1 and empowerment to ease the impact of COVID-19. starting in 2021. The new subjects to be introduced Both face to face and on-line counselling have been are; Animal Production; Field Crop Production and and will continue to be offered to staff and students Horticulture for Moeng College, and Hospitality and impacted by COVID-19 infections in schools. The Tourism Studies for Maun Senior Secondary School. demand for psychosocial support exceeds my ministry’s Some of the learning facilities have been altered, and capacity, hence we will continue to seek help from new facilities being constructed within the two schools other stakeholders. It is my ardent hope Chairperson, to make provision for the teaching of the new subjects that we will all take personal responsibility for our to Form 4 learners. safety by washing hands frequently or sanitizing, social distancing, and proper wearing of masks even as we Mr Chairperson, the ministry is also developing a await the vaccine. new Junior Certificate (JC) outcome based curriculum aligned to the new senior secondary school Curriculum. My ministry has developed a comic booklet titled The implementation of outcome–based education “Mokaedi #Stay Safe.” The booklet addresses curriculum requires the modernizing and digitalising knowledge gaps and myths related to COVID-19 as well of schools to create an environment that is conducive as dispel anxieties and maladjustment brought about to learning. Going forward, the ministry needs to be by the COVID-19 pandemic. The booklet is benefiting facilitated and fully supported by Honourable Members primary school learners including a segment of learners to fast-track expanding access as well as attending to the who could not fully access other sources of information. aged school infrastructure across the country. Funding for this noble initiative was provided by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural A Learner Profiling Framework and a Learner Profiling Organization (UNESCO) office in Botswana. Portfolio have been developed for learners from pre-

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primary to senior secondary, together with the associated As part of attaining inclusive education, my ministry, tools used for profiling. The framework tools will working with the University of Botswana (UB) language enable each learner to be profiled and guided according experts, has developed a draft language policy for to their abilities and interests. To date, learner profiling education so that teaching using some local languages for feeder schools of Moeng College and Maun Senior may be introduced in our schools. The ministry will use School in line with the multiple pathways project, has the draft as a basis for consulting key stakeholders for been conducted. Profiling was also carried out in special further input prior to the approval of the policy. education schools for learners of hearing impairment at Tashata and Ramotswa Junior Secondary Schools. PRIMARY EDUCATION

The ministry has developed the School Leadership Mr Chairperson, in 2020, 43,170 and 2,860 candidates Management Modules, the Teacher Education in public and private schools respectively sat for the Professional Development System, and the In-service Primary School Leaving Examination (PSLE). The Continuous Professional Development system which overall percentage at grades A to E has remained largely are to ensure the continuous improvement and relevance the same with some insignificant changes: Grade A of education provided in schools. To further ensure recorded a slight decline of 0.40 per cent, grade B, a quality standards in teaching and learning, the Botswana slight increase of 0.59 per cent. Cumulatively, there is Teaching Professionals Council (BOTECO) Board is in a decrease of 0.89 per cent in the candidates awarded place and will recruit staff during the 2021/22 financial Grade C or better in 2020 compared to 2019. At grade year. D, a slight decline of 0.15 per cent, while Grade E has experienced an increase of 1.01 per cent from 6.43 per PRE-PRIMARY EDUCATION cent in 2019 to 7.44 per cent in 2020. Mr Chairperson, the roll out of the Reception Programme for Early Childhood Development (Pre- Overall, the performance of learners has remained the Primary Education) in public schools is ongoing in same, and I would like to congratulate the learners for collaboration with the Ministry of Local Government working hard amidst COVID-19 challenges. I also want and Rural Development. 29 primary schools have to commend parents for helping learners with secondary been proposed to introduce pre-primary education this school work, and teachers for keeping schools safe and saving the 2020 school calendar year. year; bringing the total of primary schools offering Pre-Primary Education to 642 or 84.9 per cent of Mr Chairperson, the ministry is currently developing primary schools. For the remaining primary schools, an a Remediation and Enrichment Programme (R&EP) alternative readiness programme being the Standard One jointly funded by the UNICEF. The strategy is geared Orientation Programme, is already being implemented. towards improving learner achievement to address The six weeks programme’s objective is to familiarize challenges of learning in Botswana with local relevance children with the learning environment before starting for pre-primary, primary and secondary schools. The Standard One the following year. consultancy has started work which is expected to be completed in December 2021. In an effort to ensure programme roll out to all primary schools, the ministry is leveraging on partnerships with Furthermore Mr Chairperson, the roll out of the Reading international organisations. To date, classrooms for pre- Challenge Programme to all the primary schools primary have been constructed in Mababe and Gumare continues. The programme is a joint venture between in North West District, Kavimba in Chobe District, my ministry and the British Council, with the overall Hunhukwe in Kgalagadi District, Sekhutlane and objective of inculcating a reading culture in children Lorolwane in Southern District, West Hanahai in Ghanzi from the grassroots level and to help learners develop District, and Oodi in Kgatleng District. Mr Chairperson, high order thinking skills. Chairperson, I take this the development of a suitable Public Private Partnership opportunity to call on parents and the community at (PPP) model in the provision of pre-primary education large to inculcate a culture of reading in our society. with the assistance of United Nations International Let us catch them young and not only rely on schools Children’s Emergency Fund (UNICEF) was delayed by to make children read. We cannot become a knowledge COVID-19, and should be completed in 2021. society without a reading culture.

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SECONDARY EDUCATION IV. CONCLUSION

Chairperson, about 43 883 candidates sat for Junior Mr Chairperson, I wish to conclude my presentation Community (JC) in 2020, compared to 41 051 which of the 2021/2022 Recurrent and Development Budget is an increase of 6.91 percent from 2019. The overall requests for my ministry. I therefore move that the sum pass rate at Grade E or better stood at 80.72 per cent in of Nine Billion, Five Hundred and Twenty-Four Million, 2020, compared to 84.76 percent in 2019; a significant Three Hundred and Two Thousand, Five Hundred and decline of 4.04 percent. At Grade C or better, credit pass Seventy Pula (P9, 524, 302, 570.00) under the Recurrent rate of 33.16 in 2020, compared to 35.38 per cent in Budget and the sum of One Billion, Six Hundred and Ten 2019; a decline of 2.22 per cent. Comparing 2020 JC Million Pula (P1, 610, 000, 000.00) under Development results with those of 2019, a decline in performance is also observed across grades with the exception of Merit Budget be approved and stand part of the Schedule of grade. At Merit grade, 11 candidates satisfied the award the 2021/2022 Appropriation Bill (No. 1 of 2021); for in 2020 compared to three in 2019. Head 0600 in the Development Fund Estimates. Mr Chairperson, I so move. Thank you. Chairperson, the Botswana General Certificate of Secondary Education (BGCSE) results for 2020 have MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable just been released. A total of 36 557 candidates sat for Minister. Honourable Members, the floor is open for the exam and 96.39 of them obtained Grade G or better debate. I can see hands and I will go to Honourable in six syllabuses, which is a slight decline from 97.64 Mephato Reatile… in 2019. Proportion of candidates obtaining Grade E or HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr better increased from 64.87 in 2019 to 65.36 in 2020. Chairperson. Those who obtained credit Grade G or better increased marginally to 21.17 per cent, compared to 20.95 MR CHAIRPERSON: …who will be followed by achieved in 2019. Overall performance of candidates Honourable Kwape and Honourable Healy. has declined by 1.25 per cent in 2020, compared to 2019 which is insignificant. The quality of pass has however MR RAMOGAPI: On a point of procedure. Let improved. me assist you Honourable Chairperson, there are Honourable Members who have raised their hands for Through the assistance from United Nations a long time like Honourable Motaosane, Moagi and International Children’s Emergency Fund (UNICEF), others. It is confusing since they never drop their hands. my ministry managed to avail self-study materials to These hands were still raised even during Honourable completing secondary school learners in preparation for Kgafela’s response and it seems like they are not even their 2020 examinations. National Mock Examinations in Parliament or they were not present when they were were conducted for all completing students for the first called. Maybe they should drop and control them. time in order to gauge the preparedness of learners given the challenges of COVID-19. The Ministry MR CHAIRPERSON: You are quite right Honourable of Basic Education and the Botswana Examinations Ramogapi. For Ministry of Basic Education, I have Council (BEC) successfully administered the Primary, got a selection on my desk from Botswana Democratic JC and BGCSE amidst a trying time. Examinations Party (BDP), Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC), were conducted with strict compliance to COVID-19 Botswana Patriotic Front (BPF) and then from Alliance protocols. Some students wrote examinations in for Progressives (AP). So those who have not been isolation facilities, whilst others were in quarantine. picked in their selections, they ought not to raise their hands because it is just a waste of time. EXPANSION OF ACADEMIC ACCOMMODATION MR REATILE (JWANENG-MABUTSANE): Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Chairperson, let me thank Mr Chairperson, my ministry is faced with classroom the Minister for presenting his budget proposal for shortages in schools, which is compounded by the need 2021/2022. Let me start by saying I acknowledge the for social distancing. Mr Chairperson, in view of the Minister’s request but there are concerns arising that you time left, I will have to jump some paragraphs and move are an excellent presenter when it comes to requesting to the conclusion Mr Chairperson, with the hope that for funds. With regards to our love for education so Honourable Members have read our presentation. that in future our children can compete with those from

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other countries, we approved the Minister’s budget. quality education. What are we doing with bricks Mr The most disheartening part Mr Chairperson is as he Chairperson? That is what I indicated. just highlighted that, in the previous approved budget allocation he only utilised half of the development When you get to the junior secondary schools at Khakhea budget. Mr Speaker, it is a disgrace and a shame, and you cannot believe that that is how it is. I am saying this because So Mr Chairperson this is a clear indication that Mr His Honour the Vice President went to Maiteko Junior Chairperson has to decentralise some services for Secondary School, even the Minister went to Maiteko example, Information and Technology (IT) which is at Junior Secondary School, I wanted to talk about him Honourable Segokgo’s ministry should be responsible because he knows, and you can see that the issue is for the set up, he will be a user. When it comes to embarrassing for him as he does not want to mention construction, Honourable Kgafela can take over. All what he has seen at Maiteko Junior Secondary School. If we expect from him is education, we want to see him you go to Molongwa Junior Secondary School, teachers producing well rounded children. Right now, in his have nowhere to work and they have no accommodation. presentation as we know primary schools are under So I was saying, Minister can you put more effort so Honourable Molale’s ministry so he could be making that we can see that we have a young Minister who efforts to ensure children are not educated under trees. is active, and is running the ministry effectively. We The Minister has to ensure that he completely deviates want to see quick changes at your ministry. Kgosimpe from this issue that in my ministry I have a technical Junior Secondary School at Jwaneng, which has been competing for position number one with a school in unit and other units, this is just a waste of time and Selebi Phikwe for the past four consecutive years, at the resources. We have to ensure that everything is in place. moment this school has never had complete buildings. It We cannot have Ministry of Infrastructure and Housing has never had a kitchen, hall and enough classes. So what Development then we take their responsibilities, that I wonder is that, since we are well known for being rich negatively impacts on our mandate. Mr Chairperson, in diamonds, can we also be known for being poverty I am saying this because the Minister is aware that at stricken. Our poverty is competing with diamonds, Maiteko Junior Secondary School, there is a project wow! Mr Chairperson, when you get to Morama Junior which has been pending for the past seven years, even Secondary School, there is nothing that I can say those up to now, it is not complete. He does not even mention four schools in my constituency, can benchmark from it. Mr Chairperson, this is a clear indication that we the other. They benchmark with poverty, considering have bigger problems than Mount Sinai at the Ministry the way the teachers are suffering and how we are not of Basic Education. The contractor has abandoned the taking care of them. Even those boarding schools, it is project, they took the money and ran while there is no just to go there to see how the students are suffering. roofing. His Honour the Vice President once visited the Moving on Mr Chairperson, I wanted to present these school at Mabutsane to see such an embarrassing case, issues to the Minister the way they are. it is disheartening. The other one which is a concern Mr Chairperson is So, I would love for the Minister to inform Batswana that, teachers have… like His Excellency the President that, since these buildings were an expansion, teachers indicated, those who work in remote areas should be and students do not have accommodation, when does brought closer to their spouses so as to build families. he promise to provide accommodation for Batswana Others came from remote areas requesting that they working at Mabutsane? When do you promise should be brought closer to their spouses, and in their Batswana that public officers will get accommodation? cases they were also issues of health. However, the That is why I am saying Minister since you are talking Ministry of Education keeps on dragging their feet. about the P438 million right now, I really expected One may wonder if this a way of exploiting their that those buildings will be completed at this moment. employees, or they are trying to frustrate the efforts of If these buildings were given to Honourable Mmusi the President. So you will find that in Botswana, we Kgafela, this issue would have ended already. Right have a lot of Presidents because after the President has now we are praising lack of capacity… (Inaudible)… said something, there are those who do what is contrary the issue of buildings, we know that technically we are to what the President said. This Mr Chairperson, now highly connected with issues that deal with providing ends up making it seem like there are many people who

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are running the Office of the President. So we should When are you going to build kitchens for schools make sure that we respect the decisions that have been like Kgosimpe CJSS? … (Inaudible)… If you were made by Office of the President as the line ministry. We to commit yourself when can we expect these junior should make sure that what is said by the President and secondary schools in Jwaneng Minister, so that we can Office of the President is implemented. So that is why I be like other constituencies? That is the request I made am pleading that Honourable Fidelis Macdonald Molao, to you Minister, and let me say God be with you, and be should make sure that these things are implemented and healthy and maybe you can show us mercy. Thank you. the decisions of Office of the President are respected. MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS Honourable Minister, I am saying this so that when AND COOPERATION (DR KWAPE): Thank you anything is not done I can come back to you with these Mr Chairperson for giving me the opportunity to also transfers because you are going to say you do not know comment on the request by Minster Molao. Let me start whereas all the issues come to me. Others are from by saying I acknowledge the good things he has said which are in line with the promises that Domkrag made constituencies of certain Honourable Members, and now to Batswana when they were elected into power. I was I end up bringing them to your office. We should really looking at these promises when they reached number make sure that we build families like the President was 22, and when I listened to his report and also considering saying that, we cannot be viewed as a Government that that, we only have 15 months in this current Government, breaks families apart, that does not build, protect and but we have managed to fulfil nine promises out of 22. nurture. Those are the issues that, we should make sure That is a good effort and we still have a long time ahead that we implement Mr Chairperson. of us, let me encourage you Minister that, you are going Let me also say Honourable Molao, when results are to be successful in your objectives that you want to fulfil not good, we blame you. Make sure that you also talk to improve our education in Botswana. to Honourable Mzwinila, and request him to always I want to also emphasize that your ministry Minister is provide water on time because... (Inaudible)…students one of the ministries that is allocated lot of funds. That are often taken out of schools because of unavailability is in line with the vision of Botswana to improve our of water. So when there is no water, that affects the education system because we want to trade with skills quality of education and when the results are released and education. So I thank the Minister who is responsible we blame you. We forget that there was a week when for allocating the budget, and the one who utilises it for there was a challenge of water and there was nothing requesting that amount, he has been given those funds teachers could do, as there was no way they could cook so that the things we intend to do for Botswana can be for the students, and the students ended up going back possible. home. You should address those issues Honourable Minister and talk to the relevant Minister, at Khakhea Let me say Minister, last year we were hit by the they are bowsing, when there is no water at schools COVID-19 pandemic, but despite that like you reported, we will be notified after three days...(Inaudible)…they Standard seven, Form 3 and Form 5 examinations were call, and they even come...(Inaudible)… notify us as written. Results indicate that even though they were Members of Parliament. When we try to intervene it will not satisfactory, they did not however drop the way we already be late. So I am requesting that there should be expected, considering the intensity of the disease that a special arrangement of this issue at schools, so that affected us. our schools will not at any point compete to be at the Let me specially acknowledge schools like Maisantwa bottom; they also compete to be number one. This is and Ntebogang which are in the constituency I am what I am pleading Honourable Minister, let us ensure representing. Let me also specially acknowledge the that the next financial year which begins on the 1st of three Form 5 students who did well in their BGCSE April, we do things differently Minister and we move being Onkabetse Seremane, Moment Zibako and forward. Bofelo Tshekoetsile. These are some of the few who In your response you should tell us when the building got outstanding results. It is important for us to take that was constructed by the contractor who went care of these students. I am saying this in relation to away with the funds is going to be completed? When the Ministry of Tertiary Education, Dr Letsholathebe. should teachers and student expect accommodation? We are looking into ensuring that they do special jobs,

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they should be trained for those. They should be taken consider the development plan that there should be to institutions which will teach them how to uplift our a school in Kgwakgwe as it was supposed to be built economy. during the District Development Plan (DDP) 6. This can assist us to improve the results better than we had done. In your budget Minister, I understand you were not able to use it as you had intended. The encouragement As the Honourable Minister had come to Kanye, we would be that, in the development budget, we should thank Honourable Mzwinila, we have a challenge try another effective way of using the funds so that in because water is leaking and the schools end up not the future, those things which we wanted to achieve, we having water. I am saying there should be a special could achieve them. Let me also acknowledge that in the arrangement to enable schools to have water so that recurrent budget, it seems you are on the right track of students would not be affected by the unavailability of using the budget as you have proposed. Let me also say water, and thus be unable to continue with their studies. even though this pandemic is painful to us, it has also Electricity; Mr Chairperson, in the constituency that I brought a positive effect. We have managed to reduce am representing, there are some schools which do not the class sizes, as it was our intension when we took have electricity. The request to the Minister responsible over Government. Let me commend you that there is for electricity is that, a village like Tsonyane should be no school in Botswana that does not have a place where connected with electricity, this is an issue that I talk students can wash their hands, as a precaution against about repeatedly and this village, is the only one in the the COVID-19 virus. Also sir, I would like to commend constituency which does not have electricity. The school you in a special way that our schools have not closed. If does not have electricity and if you bring technology, it you may take a note the world over, schools have been means it is going to be difficult for students to promptly closed, and the children’s education has taken a blow. access the technology. A school like Sesu, does not have a kitchen to prepare meals for students, there is Even though there are challenges, the results were not no office block for teachers. If those were to be built, it very bad compared to those for last year. The hope is would improve the results. I am saying this because this that in the coming years the results will improve. school performed much better. Let me commend you once again as we had stated that I would like to conclude with two points which I know we should come up with a plan to ensure that, students they are on the Minister’s table. The Public Service pursue subjects which are in line with their career Bargaining Council should promptly complete their path, at an early stage. I would like to applaud you discussions with relevant Ministers regarding teachers because, Maun and Moeng schools have introduced a whom we want to see being productive. They should subject in Tourism. I believe this will be explained in not only look at that one, they should consider whether the President’s state of the nation address at the end it is necessary for the teacher to be included in the of this year. A school like Seepapitso, should focus public service Act or we should think of something that more on technology since we have the Rural Industries is specifically for them. Honourable Minister, I believe Innovation Centre (RIIC). We want students to learn these would benefit us in terms of improving the results. about solar energy when they are still at secondary I just wanted to address those issues to that extent, and school. commend you as well. Let me encourage you that Let me also appreciate the fact that, mother tongue we are still left with 45 months in this Government. education is underway. We appreciate that because most Let us continue improving so that those things which of the Honourable Members have talked about this, and we promised Batswana when we were campaigning we are a Government that listens. Let me thank you for elections, we ensure that we implement them. Mr Minister because you reacted timeously for these things Chairperson I do not want to be long, so let me stop here to be implemented. and thank you.

Be that as it may, even one has performed well, there MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Kwape. is room for advices so that they can improve certain Honourable Healy, you are the next on the floor. things at the Ministry of Education such as the shortage …Silence… of...I will give an example of the constituency I am representing. At Kgwakgwe or Mmamokhasi in Kanye, MR KABLAY: Mr Chairperson, we had requested there is no primary school. I am saying you should that Honourable Motaosane should come in because

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Honourable Healy has some challenges sir. that it there are no funds, but I am begging for this school to be considered because it has many students. MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Motaosane. Right now as I am speaking, in the two constituencies of …Silence… Molepolole North and Molepolole South, there are nine junior schools and all the students go to Kgari Sechele. MR KABLAY: If Honourable Motaosane is not On top of those nine junior schools, Kgari Sechele available, Honourable Regoeng will be next. also admits students from areas like Lentsweletau, Mmopane and so forth. So it has many students hence HONOURABLE MEMBER: I am next, in the place it is important for you to hurry and to see how you can for Honourable Thiite. address the situation in that school Minister.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, I have to come in It is not only this school, other junior schools like now. Tshegetsang and Motswasele are lagging behind in my MR REGOENG (MOLEPOLOLE NORTH): Thank constituency. They have not had routine maintenance for you Mr Chairperson. I thank... the longest time and you should also consider assisting them. MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Members, please wait. You are causing confusion because I have to I am grateful that you pointed out that schools like listen to your Chief Whip, so he is the one who said Kwena Sereto and Moruakgomo in my constituency Honourable Regoeng is next, instead of Honourable have been included in your plan, that shortly or as time Healy or Motaosane. goes on, significant maintenance would be carried out there. We appreciate that initiative and it should be MR REGOENG: Thank you Mr Chairperson because I finally managed to get this opportunity after a while. executed like that. People who are going to carry out Let me comment to the presentation that was made by that maintenance, you should keep an eye on the project the Honourable Minister of basic education, Honourable and ensure that they do things appropriately without Molao. Let me commend him because we have just any delays. If these things can be delayed, they affect come out of an uncertain year due to COVID-19. I did leaners and they do not get what is due to them. Sir, not expect much to come out of the primary, junior we will always cry out to you. Teachers do not have schools and senior schools results. Although they did accommodation. Teachers at Kgari Sechele are grieving not perform exceptionally well, we appreciate the effort every day. One of the reasons why it seems like learners you made in your ministry with the teachers, which are not performing well is because, even the teachers enabled us to have come this far. We have students who are not happy. All these things are the responsibility of performed exceptionally well. We really applaud you the government, for example; it seems like there are for that. I believe in this year, although we are still in the some schools which have extra houses, when you look middle of a pandemic, things will improve. You will see at Mogoditshane Senior, it has extra houses which are what to do in order to move forward. not occupied. Honourable Minister, can you not request Honourable Minister, we still have challenges, that some of the teachers at Kgari Sechele who do not especially at the constituency I am representing. Last have accommodation should be given accommodation time I asked you to go with me to Kgari Sechele. You at Mogoditshane Senior? It is not beneficial to build welcomed me, although we are yet to embark on that houses and then they remain unoccupied. journey. That school has many students. When you see Over and above that minister, there are some institutional a school having over 1400 students, just know that it houses which you requested in Block 7. Some people is overwhelmed. That is a big number, and all of them who resided there moved to Mogoditshane and they are day scholars. So the maintenance was done a long vacated those houses but they are still vacant. Keep an time ago. It has been years since it was inspected. So I eye on this issue and see how you can address it so that am saying, as you continue to see which ones you are teachers can have accommodation. That is my plea, we renovating, you should include it in your maintenance know that there are shortages but… plan. The reason why the results for Kgari Sechele are so low like this, is because that school is not in a MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Regoeng, there is a conducive state for student to learn properly. I know request for clarification from Honourable Rakgare.

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MR REGOENG: Yes, he heard me talking about technology, we should be in a position where we agree Mogoditshane. Yes sir, I yield. that indeed it is there. There is no point in talking about technology and then when we are supposed to use it, MINISTRY OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, there is no network which means that nothing happens SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR Minister. I am saying that you should also address this RAKGARE): Thank you Honourable Regoeng. My issue extensively. brother, I just wanted to highlight that we are also experiencing that shortage in Mogoditshane, when you Although I know that the issue pertaining to primary go to Mogoditshane Junior Secondary School, it is 100 schools falls under the Ministry of Local Government per cent sharing. So, if there is a space at Mogoditshane and Rural Development, I will just address it because Senior in terms of accommodation, we will be grateful it is about education and these are the challenges of if Mogoditshane Junior Secondary School teachers can your ministry. We have Borakalalo ward which is be considered first before we can go to Molepolole. very broad. Within this ward, there is a settlement Thank you. called Sesha; along the road that leads to Mosenki. MR REGOENG: Yes sir, we do hear you. Let us not It is about 7km to access the nearest school. This is a exchange it, but I just pointed out that, there are some very unhealthy situation. When it rains, students do not institutional houses in Block 7 which can also be utilised. go to school because even the roads are not in a good I take it that we can assess and see if your people can condition. When it is very hot like it is today, students go to Block 7, and then teachers for the senior school do not go to school. Minister, as you are planning to can come and stay with other senior school teachers so construct schools, together with the Ministry of Local that they share ideas with them while still carrying on Government and Rural Development, I plead that a with the teaching process. Minister Molao, these issues school should be constructed at that settlement. We are there. We plead that you should assess them and see cannot talk about the issue of students going to school how they can be addressed. even though they travel a long distance in a village like Molepolole; 7km in search of a school. So I plead that The other issue that I wanted to move on to is you consider us in your plan to construct schools, I will photocopiers and laboratories. There is a shortage of talk to my constituents so that we look for land where a these things and the situation is worse in junior schools. school can be constructed, but you should also see if you When you go to Motswasele, there is no photocopier. cannot liaise with the corresponding ministry and see if For them to photocopy papers for learners, they have to you cannot construct a school for a settlement like this go around the whole village looking for a photocopying one. It is embarrassing Minister because some students machine. These things are not proper at all. They are do not go to school, when they are supposed to go to using some Labs as computer rooms because equipment school during rainy and hot days, they sit under the trees which they were supposed to use in those kind of labs waiting for 12’o clock mid-day so that they can go back is not available. So, we are saying that, even though we home. This is not a situation that we want to see at this know that there are shortages of funds, try and ensure point in time, a situation where students are growing that you divide the little that you have and see how you but they do not go to school even though parents are can address this situation. confident that they attend schools. The other problem that is there, we know that currently I really valued your presentation. One other thing that things have changed, everything uses Information disturbed me is the issue where we always talk about Technology (IT), but network is a bit of a problem, more lack of capacity. I have been in the public service for especially across the whole of Molepolole. In order to a long period of time, it has been 20 years while still access network, learners go and crowd near the library talking about capacity problem. Is there ever going to because that is where network is accessible but in other be a time where we are going to address the problem areas…even the service centre which is in Molepolole of capacity? Let us come up with ideas of how we does not have network; even at Mafenyatlala mall, can solve this issue. We should not always use lack of at least they should go there and do that. So we were capacity as the sole reason why jobs are delayed. This saying, if you can extend these things, and see that does not put us in a favourable situation. Are we going to you meet with the relevant Minister, Minister Moagi, continue talking about this issue when we are supposed then things would improve. As we are talking about to provide services?

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I thought that I should comment on your presentation use that technology. If we take technology to schools with those words and say that, the budget which is where maybe teachers and students are not equipped to allocated to your ministry, I agreed with my fellow use it, we are going to find ourselves having bought an colleagues that we should approve it with the hope expensive technology which we are unable to use. We that you, your ministry and your officers are going to should therefore make sure that we train them. prudently manage it. Thank you. Minister, there is this arrangement where Moeng and MR MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): Maun schools will be the ones that they pilot with. Thank you Mr Chairperson for giving me this time. I Minister, this means that we need to work hard to would like to point out that, it is evident that a lot of make sure that this programme succeeds. I am worried things at the Ministry of basic Education are hindered that when you look at infrastructure development of by funds; their budget is very small, although it might schools such as Moeng, which is one of the selected seem like it is a lot, when you look at the things that are pilot schools, you will find that nothing has started and supposed to be done at schools, you will realise that this there is an indication that we will in the meantime use budget does not permit Minister. an alternative means. If you want a project of this nature Mr Chairperson, when you look at the current situation to be off to a good start, it means you should start it with in which there is a shortage of books from primary relevant resources to ensure that it goes smoothly. It is schools all the way up to secondary schools, every day clear Minister that Moeng is still behind and we need to in Parliament there are questions which are asked in work hard because if we are saying we want to develop relation to the situation of shortage of books. agriculture there; animal husbandry and the like, it will require a proper infrastructure which suits what we want When you go to Montsamaisa Junior Secondary School, to achieve. Gold Mine; when you go to primary schools like Phatsimo, Moremogolo, Phase 4 Primary School, and I am happy that at least at Maun Senior Secondary Mahube, you will find that they are all complaining School, they have tourism and hospitality related about the same thing, schools do not have books to an resources and they are in good condition. Minister, I extent that five students can even share one book. This believe we should do our best to roll out this programme situation exposes them to the difficult situation we are to other schools. We also have economic activities that facing of COVID-19. we desire students in Francistown to be taught so that when they are older, they will know what to do. Minister, I had expected that your budget would indicate that we are moving towards making sure that every Honourable Minister, for a long time we have been student has a book and does not share. It is clear that complaining that we do not have a senior school in the current budget for books is lower than last year’s. Francistown South. We have two community junior The expectation was, since we have realised that sharing schools and we have requested that one should be a increases the spread of COVID-19, we should therefore unified school which starts from Form 1 to Form 5. try to reduce its spread by all means possible. We have a challenge of always asking for placements at Honourable Honest Buti Billy and Honourable In your presentation Honourable Minister, it is clear Moswaane’s constituencies. that although the Ministry of Basic Education aims to digitise education, Information and Communications Another thing Minister is that, we have small traders in Technology (ICT) roll out in schools is very slow. Our our different constituencies. The worrying thing is that challenge Mr Chairperson in digitising education will be the Ministry of Basic Education on its own is a market that our schools are not fully installed with technology. and it should be found to be supporting small businesses in these constituencies. Sometimes it is shocking to find Mr Chairperson just recently we were looking at then that required services in a constituency are provided fact that the progress is very slow in terms of digitising by people we do not know in your schools. In that education. We requested and even advised your ministry way, that does not help to grow domestic economy in that we need to do more promptly to ensure that the constituencies we are representing. issue of technology is finalised. Minister, it is important that as we will be digitising education, we should Honourable Minister, we are grateful for the continued ensure that teachers and students are in a position to appointment of temporary teachers. We were saying

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we should hasten to ensure that all temporary teachers be absorbed as permanent. Honourable Minister, we should do that as soon as possible because most of them have been temporary teachers for years and sometimes their contracts are not renewed. We should therefore promptly ensure that the recommended teacher-student ratio of 1:30 should be implemented. Let us employ teachers on permanent and pensionable basis so that they can do their things freely.

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order Honourable Member! It is now six o’clock, it is time to go and rest. I shall now call upon the Leader of the House to move a Motion of adjournment.

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, before I move, Speakers, you should take note that in democracy, we have the opposition and the ruling party. So when you give members from minority opposition the floor, you should know that they are part of opposition. Otherwise, they will speak in each and every chapter and it will dilute the majority. I wanted you to be careful because they must be part of the opposition. I thank you Mr Speaker. With those few words, I move that this House do now adjourn.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Can I respond Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! No.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…

MR SPEAKER: I heard him.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Forget your response.

Question put and agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 6:00 p.m. until Friday 12th March, 2021 at 09:00 a.m.

Hansard No 201 57 HANSARD RECORDERS Mr. T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi, Ms N. Mokoka

HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa HANSARD TRANSLATORS Ms B. Ntisetsang, Ms M. Sekao, Ms B. Mosinyi, Ms V. Nkwane, Ms N. Kerobale, Ms K. Motswakhumo, Ms T. Motsau, Ms O. Phesodi, Mr K. Setswe

LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B. B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae

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