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Hansard of Oral Evidence H O U S E O F K E Y S O F F I C I A L R E P O R T R E C O R T Y S O I K O I L Y C H I A R E A S F E E D P R O C E E D I N G S D A A L T Y N (HANSARD) C O M M I T T E E O N THE C R I M I N A L J U S T I C E ( M I S C E L L A N E O U S P R O V I S I O N S ) B I L L B I N G Y C H I A R E A S F E E D M Y C H I O N E B I L L E Y C A I R Y S K I M M E E ( C A G H L A A G H Y N D Y C H I A R A I L Y N ) Douglas, Friday, 1st April 2011 All published Official Reports can be found on the Tynwald website www.tynwald.org.im Official Papers/Hansards/Please select a year: Reports, maps and other documents referred to in the course of debates may be consulted upon application to the Tynwald Library or the Clerk of Tynwald’s Office. PP98/11 KCJB, No. 1 Published by the Office of the Clerk of Tynwald, Legislative Buildings, Finch Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IM1 3PW. © Court of Tynwald, 2011 BILL COMMITTEE, FRIDAY, 1ST APRIL 2011 Members Present: Mr C R Robertshaw, MHK (Chairman) Mrs B J Cannell, MHK M Q B Gill, MHK Clerk: Mr R I S Phillips, Secretary of the House BUSINESS TRANSACTED Page Procedural ................................................................................................................................................3 Evidence of Hon. A Earnshaw, MHK, Minister for Home Affairs ...............................................3 The Committee adjourned at 11.13 a.m. and resumed its sitting at 11.18 a.m. when Mr Greenhow and Mr Lalor-Smith were called. Evidence of Mr W Greenhow, former Chief Executive, and Mr J Lalor-Smith, Director of Administration and Legislation, Department of Home Affairs ...................................................22 Procedural ..............................................................................................................................................39 Mrs Cannell left the Committee at 12.21 p.m., when Mr Langdon was called. Evidence of Mr M Langdon, Chief Constable ................................................................................40 The Committee sat in private at 1.22 p.m. _________________________________________________________________ 2 KCJB BILL COMMITTEE, FRIDAY, 1ST APRIL 2011 House of Keys Committee on the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill The Committee sat in public at 9.58 a.m. in the Legislative Council Chamber, Legislative Buildings, Douglas [MR ROBERTSHAW in the Chair] Procedural 5 The Chairman: (Mr Robertshaw): Good morning everyone. Can I welcome you all to this meeting of the House of Keys Committee on the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. The Committee was appointed on 23rd November 2010. We are meeting this morning to take oral evidence. We have invited Mr Adrian Earnshaw, MHK, Minister for Home Affairs to give evidence 10 today. Further sessions will take place after his evidence with Mr Will Greenhow, as Chief Executive of the Department at the time that the Bill was prepared. He will be accompanied by Mr Julian Lalor-Smith who is the official who is in charge of the Bill. Finally, we will hear evidence from the Chief Constable. The Committee will examine the Bill in subject areas. Today, we will ask some general 15 questions about the architecture of the Bill, but we will mainly concentrate on Police powers. Other evidence sessions will be arranged. I would like to introduce my fellow members of the Committee: Mrs Brenda Cannell, MHK, and Mr Quintin Gill, MHK. Mr Phillips, who is Secretary to the House and Counsel to the Speaker, is the Committee’s Clerk and legal adviser. 20 In the corner, we have our Hansard editor, who is recording this morning’s proceedings. At this point, could I ask everyone please to kindly ensure that their mobile phones are switched off or silent, because they do interfere with recording equipment. EVIDENCE OF HON. A EARNSHAW, MHK The Chairman: So without further ado, Minister, perhaps we could commence. Good morning. 25 Mr Earnshaw: Good morning. Q1. The Chairman: Mr Earnshaw, in the light of the size of this Bill, the Committee have decided to deal with it in six sections. The six sections are: Police powers; licensing; sex offences; 30 drug offences; community safety; and miscellaneous amendments. In our part one questions to you this morning, we will be concerned with the overview issues relating to the Bill, whilst our part two questions today are concerned with those clauses relating to the Police powers and procedures. So, part one: Mr Earnshaw, why did you decide to allow such a large and diverse Bill to go 35 forward to the House in the first place? Mr Earnshaw: First of all, Chairman, if I may, I would like to… I have got a prepared statement I would like to read to you. 40 The Chairman: By all means, please. Thank you very much. _________________________________________________________________ 3 KCJB BILL COMMITTEE, FRIDAY, 1ST APRIL 2011 Mr Earnshaw: If I may do that, I would be very grateful. The Chairman: Thank you. 45 Mr Earnshaw: I would like to begin by saying – and I think this will help answer a lot of the questions that you intend to put to me – in answering the questions posed as to the origins of the Bill and the thinking behind it, it is important that I explain why the Bill is of such importance. This is because it updates the legislation related to criminal offences, the Police and the courts. Similar legislation has proven of benefit elsewhere and is considered necessary in the light of 50 developments in society, criminal behaviour and in technology to ensure the Isle of Man is similarly empowered to fight modern-day crime. Over the last three years, the Police have improved detection rates and reduced crime and have been assisted, in part, due to the legislation the Constabulary operates under and the determination of the Department to keep the Island’s legislation up to date. Since the last Criminal Justice Bill in 55 2007, the approach of the criminal fraternity has become more sophisticated – and I think you may wish to talk a little bit about the internet later on; I think that is a very good example there – and society’s problems have changed, but on the positive side, legislative powers are also available to combat these advances and changes. The Bill is therefore designed to introduce legislative powers to improve community safety and public order, prevent crime, improve enforcement, ensure 60 adequate punishment of criminal offences and reinforce existing legislation. It is not designed to impact on the majority of the Island’s residents, who are law-abiding citizens. In March 2010, the Department published its response to the consultation exercise and made changes to the Bill as a result of the issues raised. The changes were important and demonstrate that the Department has listened, made amendments and, in some cases, removed provisions. The 65 changes we incorporated included amendments to the clauses on dangerous weapons, misuse of a telecommunications system and fixed penalties. In addition, the removal of the entire provisions on the ownership of swords, late-night food establishments, conditional cautions, internet searches, intimate samples and hate crime were agreed, and a new clause in relation to childhood cruelty was added. 70 The Bill is important to the Isle of Man, because, without it, the courts and the enforcement agencies will be hampered, without the wherewithal to deal with criminal justice issues in the modern world. For example, the powers to deal with sex offenders, such as the case of the Queen Elizabeth II High School in Peel in 2009, cannot be dealt with without assistance from the UK, which may not always be available. Police conduct and disciplinary regulations cannot be updated 75 to ensure they are fit for purpose and breach of bail is not available as a specific offence. UK wholesale traders can continue to sell liquor, in competition with local firms without benefiting the Island. Video recording of interviews is not permitted. Entry to sex offenders premises will continue to be a problem. Cautions will remain on a person’s criminal record and never be spent or removed. The powers to return children to care remain not available, and the ability to ban persons 80 from licensed premises for failing to pay a fine for a drink-related offence cannot be implemented. In my view, it is most disappointing that the entire Bill has been sent to Committee. It was also in my view for the House of Keys to debate each individual clause, and if support had not been forthcoming for any clause, then I would, of course, accept that, as the will of the House. The Bill’s provisions have already been extensively aired in public and changes made, where 85 appropriate, and Members have had ample opportunity to examine the Bill during this process. I do believe a great disservice has been done to the people we represent, by delaying this Bill. It is important to residents because had it been enacted, it would help to keep crime low, reduce the number of victims and increase public safety. The Committee will also be aware the Bill cannot now be progressed until after the Election, 90 and as a result it is likely another 18 months will be lost before we deliver to the public the modern tools the law-enforcement agencies need to keep our Island safe.
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