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Page 4 TABLE of CONTENTS 1 the COMMISSIONER: 2 Q April 8, 2008Multi-Page TM Inquiry on Hormone Receptor Testing THIS PAGE ONLY REVISED ON NOVEMBER 18, 2008 LIST OF EXHIBITS COMMISSION OF INQUIRY EXHIBITS P-0166 THROUGH TO P-0198 . .122 . Pg. ON HORMONE RECEPTOR TESTING EXHIBIT P-0314 . Pg. 191 BEFORE THE HONOURABLE JUSTICE CAMERON - COMMISSIONER APRIL 8, 2008 Appearances: Bernard Coffey, Q.C. Commission Co-counsel Sandra Chaytor, Q.C. Commission Co-counsel Rolf Pritchard/Jenny Chai . Her Majesty in Right of NL Peter Browne/Jane Hennebury . Doctors Kara Laing et al Daniel Simmons . Eastern Regional Integrated . Health Authority Pamela Taylor. Members of the Breast Cancer . Testing Class Action Mark Pike . NL Medical Association Jennifer Newbury . Canadian Cancer Society (NL Division) Stacey O’Dea . Central, Western and Labrador-Grenfell Regional Integrated Health Authorities Page 4 TABLE OF CONTENTS 1 THE COMMISSIONER: 2 Q. Mr. Pritchard. MR. JOHN OTTENHEIMER - RESUMES THE STAND 3 MR. PRITCHARD: Examination by Mr. Rolf Pritchard . Pg 1 - 37 4 Q. Good morning, Justice Cameron. Good morning, Re-examination by Bernard Coffey, Q.C. Pg. 37 - 69 5 Mr. Ottenheimer. Examination by Madam Commissioner . Pg. 69 - 77 6 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 7 Q. Good morning, Mr. Pritchard. MR. TOM OSBORNE 8 MR. PRITCHARD: Examination by Bernard Coffey, Q.C. Pg. 77 - 300 9 Q. This is my first crack at this mouse here, so 10 I’ll apologize in advance if I delete any Certificate 11 documents. 12 THE COMMISSIONER: 13 Q. I promise you the Registrar will not allow you 14 to do that. 15 MR. JOHN OTTENHEIMER, EXAMINATION BY MR. ROLF PRITCHARD 16 MR. PRITCHARD: 17 Q. That’s good, that’s good. Mr. Ottenheimer, I 18 just have a few questions arising from your 19 testimony. You commented yesterday that at 20 some of the meetings John Abbott attended 21 those, and that he was quiet during a lot of 22 those meetings. So I think your comment was 23 you weren’t really clear what his view was on 24 some of the issues at that time, is that 25 correct? Page 4 - Page 4 Discoveries Unlimited Inc., Ph: (709)437-5028 April 8, 2008Multi-Page TM Inquiry on Hormone Receptor Testing Page 5 Page 7 1 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 1 in the Department we had some five to six 2 A. Yeah, as I mentioned in the past, Mr. 2 branches, usually under the leadership of an 3 Pritchard, I can be more certain of the views 3 Assistant Deputy Minister; Child Youth and 4 of others at the meeting, but less certain of 4 Family Services, for example. So the 5 the views of Mr. Abbott. Again as I 5 Department was quite large and a lot of work 6 mentioned, we had a very good working 6 was taking place on a day to day basis. 7 relationship I feel, but on that particular 7 MR. PRITCHARD: 8 point it’s difficult for me to express exactly 8 Q. Okay, just -- I heard you say Board Services. 9 what his view was. 9 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 10 MR. PRITCHARD: 10 A. Uh-hm. 11 Q. All right, and that really was my next 11 MR. PRITCHARD: 12 question, wondering how you would characterize 12 Q. I think we heard that the ADM for that was -- 13 your working relationship with Mr. Abbott? 13 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 14 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 14 A. Yes, the ADM in that particular area was Moira 15 A. I would suggest a very cooperative one. He 15 Hennessey, and again as I mentioned in the 16 had some experience in the past in the health 16 past, she would often, I guess, request 17 care sector, something that I personally did 17 information from the various health care 18 not have upon arriving at the Department. In 18 authorities for the benefit of -- retrieving 19 fact, Mr. Abbott came to the Department of 19 information for the benefit of the Department. 20 Health and Community Services approximately 20 MR. PRITCHARD: 21 two months after I had been appointed 21 Q. And I think we heard that Dr. Hunt was also an 22 Minister, and I welcomed his arrival. As I 22 ADM? 23 say, he had knowledge of health care and that 23 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 24 was helpful to me. 24 A. Correct, he was an ADM in the area of Medical 25 MR. PRITCHARD: 25 Services. Page 6 Page 8 1 Q. Okay, thank you. He was the Deputy throughout 1 MR. PRITCHARD: 2 the balance of your history? 2 Q. Okay, and that leaves three other areas. 3 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 3 Policy and Program was one, is that correct? 4 A. Throughout my tenure as Minister of Health and 4 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 5 Community Services he was my Deputy upon his 5 A. Yes, there were three -- as I say, a number of 6 arrival two months after my arrival. 6 other areas and from time to time the ADM 7 MR. PRITCHARD: 7 would change depending on the division, I 8 Q. And during your comments on one of the earlier 8 guess. For example, Lynn Vivian Book acted as 9 days of your testimony, you made a comment 9 an ADM during my period in the Department; 10 about -- you commented on the breadth of the 10 Loretta Chard -- there were a number of 11 Department. You commented that -- I think you 11 individuals who carried out their role in an 12 said there were five or six ADMs? 12 official capacity in a department of that 13 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 13 size. 14 A. Yes. 14 MR. PRITCHARD: 15 MR. PRITCHARD: 15 Q. And during the entire time that you were 16 Q. And that prompted me to ask -- could you just 16 Minister, was Moira Hennessey the Assistant 17 explain what the subdivisions are that warrant 17 Deputy Minister responsible for Board 18 five or six ADMs? 18 Services? 19 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 19 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 20 A. Yes. As I say, and as I’ve said repeatedly, 20 A. As I recall, yes. 21 it’s singularly the largest department in 21 MR. PRITCHARD: 22 government. It had a Division of Board 22 Q. All right, and was Dr. Hunt responsible for 23 Services, Policy and Program Services, 23 Medical Services? 24 Government and Agency Relations, Support 24 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 25 Services, Medical Services, and during my time 25 A. If I recall, throughout that whole period of Page 5 - Page 8 Discoveries Unlimited Inc., Ph: (709)437-5028 April 8, 2008Multi-Page TM Inquiry on Hormone Receptor Testing Page 9 Page 11 1 time. 1 MR. PRITCHARD: 2 MR. PRITCHARD: 2 Q. You’ve told us that you had lunch with him on 3 Q. Okay. You described how the current Minister, 3 the 19th of July. 4 Ross Wiseman, was your Parliamentary Secretary 4 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 5 during the time that you were Minister of 5 A. Uh-hm. 6 Health and Community Services. 6 MR. PRITCHARD: 7 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 7 Q. How would you characterize your relationship 8 A. Yes. 8 with Mr. Tilley? 9 MR. PRITCHARD: 9 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 10 Q. And I wasn’t clear -- was he involved in the 10 A. Certainly cordial, and as I mentioned again in 11 ER/PR issue at all, did he sit in on any 11 past testimony, I did not know Mr. Tilley that 12 meetings, or what if any involvement are you 12 well personally, I knew him much more by 13 aware of? 13 reputation. He too had a very strong history 14 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 14 in health care administration in the province. 15 A. Not that I recall, Mr. Pritchard. Mr. 15 I had a number of meetings with Mr. Tilley 16 Wiseman, in his capacity as Parliamentary 16 throughout my tenure as Minister of Health and 17 Secretary, would often assist the Minister in 17 Community Services, and according to the 18 a legislative role in dealing with matters 18 documents that have been submitted as exhibits 19 that may come up in the House of Assembly. As 19 in this inquiry, we can see that there were 20 I mentioned in the past, he would often 20 some four or five meetings on this particular 21 represent me at a variety of speaking 21 issue alone involving -- a fairly large group, 22 engagements. The Department, being as large 22 but at least involving the presence of Mr. 23 as it is, it would be difficult to accept all 23 Tilley as well. I have -- as I say, I 24 invitations personally and very often I would 24 respected his input and he was a man of some 25 ask Mr. Wiseman to represent the Minister, 25 experience in the health care sector. Page 10 Page 12 1 represent the Department at a public speaking 1 MR. PRITCHARD: 2 function, for example. I do recall 2 Q. In terms of -- you mentioned that you had four 3 specifically that we had a new aging 3 or five meetings with Mr. Tilley during the 4 initiative that was brought forward during my 4 course of this matter. 5 tenure as Minister, and I specifically asked 5 MR. OTTENHEIMER: 6 Mr. Wiseman to assume leadership of that 6 A. Uh-hm. 7 particular program, which he willingly carried 7 MR. PRITCHARD: 8 out and, as I say, played a leadership role on 8 Q. But generally speaking, how often would you 9 that particular front. 9 say you met with him? Would that be a weekly 10 MR.
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