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Official Report of This Meeting Local Government and Communities Committee Wednesday 10 March 2021 Session 5 © Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Information on the Scottish Parliament’s copyright policy can be found on the website - www.parliament.scot or by contacting Public Information on 0131 348 5000 Wednesday 10 March 2021 CONTENTS Col. DECISION ON TAKING BUSINESS IN PRIVATE ....................................................................................................... 5 NO RECOURSE TO PUBLIC FUNDS ...................................................................................................................... 5 SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION............................................................................................................................. 43 Town and Country Planning (Cairnryan Border Control Posts) (EU Exit) (Scotland) Special Development Order 2021 (SSI 2021/98) .................................................................................... 44 LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND COMMUNITIES COMMITTEE 11th Meeting 2021, Session 5 CONVENER *James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) DEPUTY CONVENER *Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) COMMITTEE MEMBERS *Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) *Gordon MacDonald (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) *Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) *Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Ind) *attended THE FOLLOWING ALSO PARTICIPATED: Jen Ang (JustRight Scotland) Susanne Millar (Glasgow City Council and the Glasgow City Health and Social Care Partnership) Eloise Nutbrown (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities) Graham O’Neill (Scottish Refugee Council) Girijamba Polubothu (Shakti Women’s Aid) Robina Qureshi (Positive Action in Housing) CLERK TO THE COMMITTEE Peter McGrath LOCATION Virtual Meeting 5 10 MARCH 2021 6 Scottish Parliament No Recourse to Public Funds Local Government and 09:20 Communities Committee The Convener: Under item 2, the committee will take evidence on the issue of people with no Wednesday 10 March 2021 recourse to public funds. Following the tragic events of last summer, the committee’s attention [The Convener opened the meeting at 09:19] was drawn to the vulnerability of asylum seekers and those with insecure immigration status. In Decision on Taking Business in particular, the committee was concerned about the plight of people with no recourse to public funds Private and the gaps that those seeking to help them in local authorities and the third sector found in the The Convener (James Dornan): Good system. We sought written evidence on the issue, morning, and welcome to the 11th meeting in 2021 and agreed to hold a one-off evidence session to of the Local Government and Communities explore some of the issues in more detail in a Committee. I ask members to ensure that all public forum. mobile phones are on silent. I remind everyone that broadcasting staff will operate your camera Today, we will hear from a range of and microphone as usual. Please allow a short organisations on the provision of support to people pause after being called to speak to allow them to who have no recourse to public funds. I welcome do so. our first panel, who are Susanne Millar, Glasgow City Council and interim chief officer with the Before we move on to item 1, I apologise for the Glasgow city health and social care partnership; delay in starting this morning. It was because of Eloise Nutbrown, policy manager for migration, technical issues. population and diversity with the Convention of Item 1 is consideration of whether to take items Scottish Local Authorities; and Girijamba 4 and 5 in private. Item 4 is consideration of the Polubothu, manager of Shakti Women’s Aid. evidence that we will hear today on people with no Thank you all for being here today and for your recourse to public funds, and item 5 is written submissions. We have allocated about an consideration of an analysis of responses in hour for this session, and we have a number of relation to licensing of static mobile homes with issues to discuss with you. Before we go on to permanent residents. As we are meeting remotely, that, I will give some brief technical information. rather than ask whether everyone agrees, I will There is a prearranged questioning order, and I ask whether anyone objects. If there is silence, I will call each member in turn to ask their questions will assume that members are content. Does for a block of up to nine minutes. It would help anyone object? broadcasting if members could indicate who their As no one objects, that is agreed, and items 4 questions are addressed to. We might have a and 5 will be taken in private. short amount of time for supplementary questions at the end. As there are three people on the panel, please indicate clearly if you wish to answer a question— for instance, by raising your hand—and do not feel the need to answer every question fully. For example, if you agree with a point that has just been made, you should feel free simply to confirm that. I ask everyone to give broadcasting staff a second to operate your microphone before you speak. We will now move on to questions. The first question is from Alexander Stewart. Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): Good morning. Can the panel members provide us with some general information about how they individually support people who have no recourse to public funds? 7 10 MARCH 2021 8 Susanne Millar (Glasgow City Council and clear support from the local authority, working the Glasgow City Health and Social Care alongside the Scottish Government. So, it has Partnership): I will offer my perspective as the been a different year for us, but the short answer chief officer of the health and social care to your question is that NRPF is a difficult area of partnership and as someone who has worked in policy and practice for local authorities, which we Glasgow City Council for 30 years, with continue to work our way through. responsibility for asylum since 2006. The way in Eloise Nutbrown (Convention of Scottish which our organisation—previously the council Local Authorities): Good morning. As Susanne and now the health and social care partnership— Millar said, I am based in the strategic migration supports people with no recourse to public funds is partnership in COSLA and our team broadly articulated in the policy and procedure document supports local authorities in relation to migration that we submitted as part of our evidence. humanitarian protection. Part of my role is working There has very much been an evolving picture to support councils to respond to no recourse to for us in relation to our being confident and public funds restrictions. There are two ways in reassured about the legal framework within which which we seek to assist local authorities and we can operate as a local authority to support community partners, one of which is monitoring people with no recourse to public funds. Part of the policy impacts. It is a complex policy area that our business in relation to that support is very changes frequently, and the impact of the policy clear, particularly, for example, in relation to on migrants of different immigration status is quite dependent children, and that is articulated in the challenging. We provide national guidance in policy document that we submitted. There are partnership with JustRight Scotland and the no other areas where there is a need for a clear recourse to public funds network that sets out the social work assessment in relation to need. Clear legal framework that local authorities operate criteria are set out in the policy document about within. We seek to support local authorities to think need that goes beyond destitution. If we can, about the service provision that can be put in through assessment, establish need beyond place under statutory duties and how to provide destitution for adults, for example, we can offer that effectively. We looked recently at training and support to people with no recourse to public funds. awareness-raising to support front-line workers to respond. That is not necessarily as straightforward as the document suggests, and it is an area of policy and At a policy level, we support our elected practice in which we in the local authority have members in COSLA so that COSLA’s leadership, relied particularly heavily on support from COSLA, particularly our community wellbeing board, take the strategic migration partnership and the third an interest in the issues. The board has been sector. As a local authority, we try to be as looking at what the opportunities are for working compassionate as possible in the implementation with the Scottish Government and the United of the policy while recognising that we have legal Kingdom Government to try to prevent destitution. restrictions and that immigration is not a devolved We have long-standing policy positions in relation responsibility. We have to be really clear that we to the removal of NRPF conditions. We advocate continue to operate within that legal framework for cross-party political calls, and we seek to while taking a compassionate approach to engage with the UK Government. We have also supporting people with no recourse to public been working with the Scottish Government on the funds. development of an anti-destitution strategy that will look at how we can work with the third sector and Our relationship with the third sector has got maximise statutory powers to prevent and mitigate much stronger. That is certainly the case with my homelessness, rough sleeping, food insecurity and work with Eloise Nutbrown and the team at the other issues that we have seen the third sector in strategic migration partnership. That partnership particular draw attention to over the past few has yielded a much more effective support system years. for people with no recourse to public funds. The partnership between local authorities and the third As Susanne Millar said, during the past 12 sector is where we continue to have some mileage months, given the public health crisis, our team or some room to offer support to people with no has increasingly shifted focus to look at what the recourse to public funds.
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