Legislative Assembly 7867 28 April 1994
THURSDAY, 28 APRIL 1994 From Mr Livingstone (2 019 signatories) praying that the Parliament of Queensland will continue to give full support to the Smithfield- Kuranda Sky-rail project. Mr SPEAKER (Hon. J. Fouras, Ashgrove) Petitions received. read prayers and took the chair at 10 a.m.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT PETITIONS Overseas Trip to Papua New Guinea The Clerk announced the receipt of the following petitions— Hon. W. K. GOSS (Logan—Premier and Minister for Economic and Trade Development) (10.02 a.m.), by leave: On 18 April this year I Great Sandy Region Draft Management undertook a two-day visit to Papua New Guinea Plan for a round of meetings with senior Government From Ms Robson (39 signatories) praying Ministers, including the Prime Minister, and to that the Parliament of Queensland will ensure deliver addresses to the Papua New Guinea that road, track, beach and airstrip closures Business Council and the Papua New Guinea proposed in the Great Sandy Region Draft Press Association. This visit was the ninth Management Plan be not implemented. ministerial-level visit to Papua New Guinea since August 1991 and is part of the continuing program by the Queensland Government to Dryander National Park build close and enduring ties at the highest level with a country which is both our closest From Mr Livingstone (29 signatories) neighbour and a significant trading partner. praying that the Parliament of Queensland will reject any motion to revoke the dedication of the I seek leave to table and have incorporated area of Dryander National Park adjacent to the into Hansard a detailed report of this recent visit eastern arm of Double Bay. to Papua New Guinea. MEETING NOTES Somerset and Albany Island VISIT TO PAPUA NEW GUINEA MR WAYNE GOSS, M.L.A. From Mr Lingard (157 signatories) praying PREMIER OF QUEENSLAND that Somerset and Albany Island at Cape York be officially proclaimed as a 'sacred European site', Monday, 18th April, 1994 that all claims be revoked in respect of title and RECEPTION TO MARK THE OFFICIAL LAUNCH that a caretaker prevent any further desecration. OF PAPUA NEW GUINEA QUEENSLAND BUSINESS WEEK I was the host of this reception at which Papua School Transport New Guinea's Minister for Commerce and Industry Mr David Mai officially opened the From Mr Davidson (250 signatories) second Papua New Guinea Queensland praying that school transport be made available Business Week. to families free of cost. The first of these events was held in September 1992 and was organised substantially by the Trade and Investment Development Division of Police, Noosa/Tewantin the Department of Premier, Economic and Trade Development with participation by the Papua From Mr Davidson (611 signatories) New Guinea Queensland Business Association. praying for a greater police presence in the On this occasion, the week's activities were Noosa/Tewantin area and that more severe largely organised by the Association, and penalties be imposed for offenders. involved 20 Queensland companies who took part in functions and meetings in Port Moresby and Lae. School, Chuwar In addition to its involvement with Papua New From Mr Livingstone (2 263 signatories) Guinea Queensland Business Week, the praying that a State secondary school facility be Queensland Government has also provided assistance to the Papua New Guinea constructed at Chuwar as a high priority. Queensland Business Association which has Sky-rail, Cairns and Kuranda seen its membership grow from an initial 20 to more than 120. 28 April 1994 7868 Legislative Assembly
The association's increasing membership and Mr Nilkare discussed a number of issues in his the level of support shown for this year's Papua portfolio areas. He suggested, among other New Guinea Business Week highlights the points, that Queensland could potentially growing interest being shown by Queensland provide advice in the area of local and central companies in Papua New Guinea. government relationships. Further talks will be RECEPTION HOSTED BY PRIME MINISTER continued at officer level. PAIAS WINGTI MEETING WITH THE OPPOSITION LEADER, Prime Minister Paias Wingti hosted a reception at CHRIS HAIVETA Parliament House for both myself and a visiting Mr Haiveta expressed his support for Australian Parliamentary delegation. The Queensland's trade connections with Papua New reception was well-attended by senior ministers Guinea and provided a general outline of the and officials of the Papua New Guinea Opposition's economic development policies. Government in addition to leading business ADDRESS TO THE PAPUA NEW GUINEA people. In a brief address I re-affirmed AUSTRALIA BUSINESS COUNCIL Queensland's commitment to building close ties of commerce and friendship with Papua New The Papua New Guinea Australia Business Guinea. Council is the premier private sector nation-to- nation level body for co-operation between firms. Tuesday, 19th April I has a reciprocal body, the Australia Papua New MEETING WITH PRIME MINISTER PAIAS Guinea Business Council. Members of both WINGTI councils include major firms with interests in both Prime Minister Wingti and I discussed a range of countries. issues of bilateral interest. In particular, the In my address I re-confirmed Queensland's Prime Minister raised the question of whether the commitment to our relationship with Papua New Queensland tourism industry could participate in Guinea and detailed some of the steps we had the development of new tourist destinations in taken to strengthening our ties of commerce and his country. I undertook to send the Prime friendship. Minister a copy of the Queensland Government's INSPECTION OF RURAL recently completed Cairns Regional Tourism TELECOMMUNICATIONS SHOW, TELEKOM Strategy as a first step in further investigation of RUMANA the matter. The Papua New Guinea Government has MEETING WITH THE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER authorised the government-owned Post and SIR JULIUS CHAN Telecommunications Corporation (PTC) to Sir Julius Chan, in addition to discussing the dedicate half of its dividend to rural prospects of closer tourism links between communications. This will mean a multi-million Queensland and Papua New Guinea, also dollar boost to services in this sector with suggested that both centres could co-operate to significant opportunities for Australian suppliers identify trade, investment and commerce of goods and services. opportunities in the Pacific Islands. I said that This display was an initiative jointly of Austrade the Queensland Government had begun and PTC, with a theme of extending investigating prospects in the Pacific region and telecommunications to Papua New Guinea could exchange information with the Papua New villages. Guinea Government. Of the twenty-four participating Australian MEETING WITH THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE companies, six were from Queensland or from AND PLANNING, MASKET IANGALIO Queensland branches of Australian firms. Mr Iangalio, who until January this year was the ADDRESS TO THE INAUGURAL DINNER OF THE Minister for Mining and Petroleum, outlined, in PAPUA NEW GUINEA NATIONAL PRESS CLUB broad terms, the Government's financial management strategies. He also discussed the This function was attended by a wide range of Australian Government's decision to change its representatives from the media, diplomatic, legal method of providing financial assistance to and business communities of Papua New Papua New Guinea from budget support to Guinea. project aid. In my address I again discussed Queensland's Mr Iangalio said this change would require Papua commitment to a strong relationship with Papua New Guinea to develop further capacity in the New Guinea before taking questions from the areas of identifying, designing and constructing floor on a range of issues. projects. We agreed that Queensland had the potential to assist Papua New Guinea in these areas. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Further talks on issues raised will be continued Great Sandy Region Management Plan at officer level. Hon. M. J. ROBSON (Springwood— MEETING WITH THE MINISTER FOR Minister for Environment and Heritage) PROVINCIAL AFFAIRS AND VILLAGE (10.05 a.m.), by leave: In March 1990 this DEVELOPMENT, JOHN NILKARE Government commissioned an inquiry into the Legislative Assembly 7869 28 April 1994 conservation, management and use of Fraser interest groups, two meetings with Fraser Island Island and the Great Sandy region. This inquiry residents, and I met several times with Fraser was undertaken by Commissioner Tony Island residents. Fitzgerald who reported to the Government in A summary of the draft management plan May 1991. Once that report was complete, was posted to all landowners within the Great decisions were taken that sandmining interests Sandy region and a full draft was made available in the region would be terminated and that to all landowners free of charge. Up to 2 000 logging on Fraser Island would cease by the end copies of the draft management plan were of 1991. distributed to the general public, interest groups Together with the Commonwealth and community organisations. Three hundred Government the Queensland Government and fifty submissions were received and were established a $38m growth and development taken into consideration when preparing the final package for the Great Sandy region to provide management plan. This management plan for those who lost their jobs or whose reflects the hard decisions that this Government businesses were directly and substantially has taken in relation to the Great Sandy region affected by the decision to end logging. The and it follows up with the decisions necessary to retrenched workers have now been assisted and ensure that Fraser Island and the Great Sandy the businesses have been compensated. region will continue to be recognised and Commissioner Fitzgerald recommended managed as an asset of outstanding value. that the region be nominated for World Heritage Let me outline some of those decisions. listing and in December 1992 Fraser Island was There will be no sandmining on World Heritage inscribed on the World Heritage List as Australia's listed Fraser Island. There will be no sandmining tenth World Heritage property. Today, I will within the remainder of the Great Sandy region. release the Great Sandy Region Management There will be no exploration for, or extraction of, Plan, the result of another of Commissioner minerals on Fraser Island. There will be no Fitzgerald's recommendations. The plan looks to exploration for, or extraction of, minerals within the future, to the year 2010. It sets out four major the remainder of the Great Sandy region. There outcomes—a secure future for the natural and will be no exploration for, or extraction of, cultural environment of the region, a secure hydrocarbons—that is, oil and gas—on Fraser community setting for people living in the region, Island or for 500 metres offshore from the Island. community access to the resources and Elsewhere within the Great Sandy region, opportunities of the region and a basis upon applications for exploration and extraction of which to sustain the activities occurring within the hydrocarbons will be subjected to stringent region. environmental assessment and conditions on a I released a draft of the plan for public case-by-case analysis. There will be no logging comment in May 1993 and there followed on Fraser Island. extensive consultation with interest groups. This Commissioner Fitzgerald's report expressed document has been prepared over the past 2.5 the view that the top end of Fraser Island should years by my Fraser Implementation Unit working be managed primarily as wilderness. This will be with the Great Sandy Region Interim Board of done. In 1992 this Government spent almost Management and the board's community and $6m to ensure that resort development would scientific advisory committees. The Community not occur at Orchid Beach. Since that time the Advisory Committee comprised representatives township has begun to develop into a small from a wide cross-section of interest holiday and residential settlement in a wilderness groups—drivers of four-wheel-drive vehicles, setting. The continued operation of the Orchid sport and recreational fishing, commercial Beach airstrip does not advance any plan for a fishing, conservation groups, the Rainbow wilderness area. The airstrip is difficult to maintain Beach community, Noosa tourism, Rainbow and has a history of accidents. Since September Beach tourism and commerce, Fraser Island tour 1986, there have been 10 accidents associated operators, the Noosa community, the Fraser with the airstrip, all but one resulting in damage to Island community, Aboriginal interests, Fraser aircraft, and one resulting in four fatalities. I know Coast tourism, the Land Care group, the Hervey the local residents have strong views on this Bay community and the Maryborough issue. However, the airstrip will be closed to community. facilitate the area returning to its natural The Community Advisory Committee met at condition. least 10 times, the Scientific Advisory Committee The management plan sets in place met four times, and the Interim Board of provisions to ensure that the top end of Fraser Management met eight times. There were 15 Island remains accessible, but does not lose its meetings with the general public or special precious qualities as a wilderness. Some tracks 28 April 1994 7870 Legislative Assembly and beaches on Fraser Island will be closed to ¥ Estimates Committee E vehicles, but these have been very carefully ¥ Estimates Committee F. considered and are necessary for the long term benefit of the island and its visitors. Role of Committees 2.(1) The proposed expenditures Four-wheel-drive vehicles are recognised as stated in the Appropriation Bill 1994 and an accepted means of travelling around Fraser Appropriation (Parliament) Bill 1994 are Island and Cooloola. However, there must be referred to the Estimates Committees some areas where families can walk, play and immediately after each of the Bills has been relax without having to continually watch out for read a second time. vehicles and there must be some areas where coastal wildlife can live naturally and normally. (2) Each committee is to examine and Only 3 kilometres out of some 120 kilometres of report by no later than 23 June 1994 on the ocean beach will be closed to vehicular proposed expenditures for the traffic—between Middle Rocks and Waddy Point. organisational units allocated to it. The western beach between Sandy Cape Estimates Committee A lighthouse and South Wathumba will also be 3. The following organisational units closed to vehicles. are allocated to Estimates Committee A— The management plan does not specify ¥ Office of the Governor overall limits on the number of people who can ¥ Legislative Assembly live within or visit the Great Sandy region; (Parliamentary Service however, it sets in place the processes which will Commission) prevent overdevelopment. The management plan recognises but does not seek to resolve the ¥ Queensland Audit Office long-term interests of Aboriginal people in ¥ Parliamentary Commissioner for relation to the Great Sandy region. Aboriginal Administrative Investigations land interests will be addressed through ¥ other organisational units within processes now established in Queensland and the portfolio of the Premier and on a national level. Minister for Economic and Trade This management plan will ensure a secure Development future for the Great Sandy region. It will not be a ¥ organisational units within the static document. Its implementation will be portfolio of the Treasurer monitored and the plan reviewed within five ¥ organisational units within the years. I now seek leave to table the Great Sandy portfolio of the Minister for Region Management Plan. Housing, Local Government and Leave granted. Planning. Estimates Committee B ESTIMATES COMMITTEES 4. Organisational units within the portfolios of the following Ministers are Sessional Orders allocated to Estimates Committee B— Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH ¥ Deputy Premier, Minister for (Chatsworth—Leader of the House) Emergency Services and Minister (10.11 a.m.), by leave: I move— for Rural Communities and "That the House agree to the following Consumer Affairs Sessional Orders relating to Estimates ¥ Minister for Police and Minister for Committees— Corrective Services 'SESSIONAL ORDERS FOR ESTIMATES ¥ Minister for Justice and Attorney- COMMITTEES 1994 General and Minister for the Arts. Appointment of Committees Estimates Committee C 1. The following Estimates Committees 5. Organisational units within the are appointed— portfolios of the following Ministers are allocated to Estimates Committee C— ¥ Estimates Committee A ¥ Estimates Committee B ¥ Minister for Education ¥ Estimates Committee C ¥ Minister for Health ¥ Estimates Committee D ¥ Minister for Employment, Training and Industrial Relations. Legislative Assembly 7871 28 April 1994
Estimates Committee D (3) If both the Chairperson and Deputy 6. Organisational units within the Chairperson of a committee are not present portfolios of the following Ministers are at a committee proceeding, the Committee allocated to Estimates Committee D— Member chosen by the Committee Members present at the proceeding ¥ Minister for Tourism, Sport and presides. Racing Quorum and voting at proceedings ¥ Minister for Family Services and 13. At a proceeding of an Estimates Aboriginal and Islander Affairs Committee— ¥ Minister for Environment and (a) 4 Committee Members form a Heritage. quorum; and Estimates Committee E (b) a quorum must include at least 1 7. Organisational units within the Government Member and 1 portfolios of the following Ministers are Opposition Member; and allocated to Estimates Committee E— (c) a question is decided by a majority ¥ Minister for Primary Industries of the votes of the Committee Members present and voting; and ¥ Minister for Minerals and Energy (d) each Committee Member present ¥ Minister for Business, Industry has a vote on each question to be and Regional Development. decided and, if the votes are Estimates Committee F equal, the presiding Member also has a casting vote. 8. Organisational units within the portfolios of the following Ministers are Opening hearing procedure allocated to Estimates Committee F— 14. In an Estimates Committee hearing ¥ Minister for Transport and Minister about proposed expenditure— Assisting the Premier on (a) the presiding Member is to call Economic and Trade over the estimates about the Development proposed expenditure and ¥ Minister for Administrative declare the proposed Services expenditure open for examination; and ¥ Minister for Lands. (b) the presiding Member is to put the Membership of Committees question ‘That the proposed 9.(1) Each Estimates Committee expenditure be agreed to’. consists of 7 Members of whom 4 are to be General hearing procedure— organisational nominated by the Leader of the House and unit other than Legislative Assembly 3 by the Leader of the Opposition. 15. In an Estimates Committee hearing (2) Each committee is to appoint a about proposed expenditure for an Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson. organisational unit other than the Legislative Assembly— When Committees may sit (a) the responsible Minister is to be 10. Estimates Committees may sit present at all times and may have whether the House is sitting or adjourned. advisers present to assist the Open hearings Minister; and 11. Hearings of an Estimates (b) a Committee Member may ask the Committee are open to the public unless Minister questions; and the committee otherwise orders. (c) a Member who is not a Committee Presiding Member Member may, with the 12.(1) The Chairperson of an Estimates committee’s leave, ask the Committee presides at all committee Minister questions; and proceedings at which the Chairperson is present. (d) an adviser may answer questions referred to the adviser by the (2) If the Chairperson is not present at a Minister. committee proceeding, the committee’s Deputy Chairperson presides. General hearing procedure—Legislative Assembly 28 April 1994 7872 Legislative Assembly
16. In an Estimates Committee hearing (d) may be included in a volume of about proposed expenditure for the additional information to be laid on Legislative Assembly— the Table of the House by the (a) the Speaker is to be present at all committee. times and may have advisers Estimates Committee must report present to assist the Speaker; and 19.(1) An Estimates Committee must (b) a Committee Member may ask the make a report at the end of its deliberations. Speaker questions; and (2) However, Estimates Committee A (c) a Member who is not a Committee must make 2 reports, that is, one for the Member may, with the Legislative Assembly and another for the committee’s leave, ask the other organisational units allocated to it. Speaker questions; and Content of report (d) an adviser may answer questions 20.(1) An Estimates Committee’s referred to the adviser by the report must state whether the proposed Speaker. expenditures referred to it are agreed to. Time for questions and answers in a hearing (2) A reservation or dissenting report by a Committee Member may be added to 17. In an Estimates Committee the Committee’s report after it is adopted by hearing— the committee. (a) questions must be no longer than Effect of failure to report 1 minute; and 21. If an Estimates Committee does not (b) answers must be no longer than 3 report on all of the proposed expenditures minutes; and referred to it, the committee is taken to have made a report agreeing to the proposed (c) a period allowed by the committee expenditures that it does not report on. for questions and answers is to be apportioned equally between Tabling and consideration of Government Members and reports—Appropriation Bill Opposition Members; and 22.(1) The Chairperson of each (d) Opposition Members are to be Estimates Committee must lay the allowed the first 20 minutes of the committee’s report on the proposed period, Government Members are expenditures stated in the Appropriation Bill to be allowed the next 20 minutes 1994 on the Table of the House. of the period and so on in rotation (2) The reports are to be received by until the end of the period. the Legislative Assembly without debate Questions on notice and additional and their consideration deferred until the information consideration of the Bill in the Committee of the Whole House. 18.(1) A Minister or the Speaker may tell an Estimates Committee that an answer (3) The Committee of the Whole House to a question, or part of a question, asked of must complete the consideration of the the Minister or Speaker will be given later to reports by no later than 24 June 1994. the committee. Tabling and consideration of (2) A Minister or the Speaker may also report—Appropriation (Parliament) Bill give the committee additional information 23.(1) The Chairperson of Estimates about an answer given by or for the Minister Committee A must lay the committee’s or Speaker. report on the proposed expenditures stated (3) The answer or additional in the Appropriation (Parliament) Bill 1994 information— on the Table of the House. (a) is to be written; and (2) The report is to be received by the (b) is to be given by a time decided by Legislative Assembly without debate and its the committee; and consideration deferred until the consideration of the Bill in the Committee of (c) is taken to be part of the the Whole House. proceedings of the Parliament; and (3) The Committee of the Whole House must complete the consideration of the report by no later than 24 June 1994. Legislative Assembly 7873 28 April 1994
Effect of consideration in Committee of the Committee A comprises the Office of the Whole House Governor, the Legislative Assembly 24. Consideration of an Estimates (Parliamentary Service Commission), the Committee’s report in the Committee of the Queensland Audit Office, the Parliamentary Whole House is taken to be consideration of Commissioner for Administrative Investigations, the provisions of the Appropriation Bill 1994 the Premier's Department, the Treasury or Appropriation (Parliament) Bill 1994 so far Department and also the Department of as the provisions authorise the proposed Housing, Local Government and Planning. It is expenditures referred to the Estimates really asking a fair bit to cover all of those Committee. departments in one day's hearing—to have it all organised and to know what areas of those Procedure in Committee of the Whole departments the Opposition or Government House backbenchers wish to pursue. 25. In the Committee of the Whole We can only ask those people such House, for each Estimates Committee— questions at the public hearing held on that day. Answers can be given by public servants at (a) the Chairman of Committees must another time, and then the committee can put the question ‘That the report deliberate. What is the good of the committee of
We really are asking for the Minister's Opposition asks Government members to goodwill by asking, "If it is a detailed question, respect the fact that that committee can sit during the Minister may not have his hands on the the afternoon and at night-time, if it is necessary. answer completely. Please allow the question to The Leader of the Opposition has be flicked straight to the adviser", because in this expressed the Opposition's concern about motion there is no reason why the Minister has to section 15, and I ask members, especially the do that. He could easily say, "No thanks. I will Ministers, to look at that section. That section handle it. I do not know", and that is it. If the states clearly that an adviser may answer Ministers do not know the answers and they do questions referred to the adviser by the Minister. not ask for advice, they will be found out for what Unless the Minister expresses goodwill, he can they are. The motion is not specific on whether a say continually, "That is policy. I will not refer that committee can ask an adviser a question. The question to an adviser." Section 15 will need a lot committee can decide if it wants to ask a particular of goodwill from the Ministers, and I ask them to public servant a question about what advice he respect that fact. If Opposition or Government gave to a Minister, what he based that estimate committee members cannot ask advisers on, and the committee cannot demand that questions directly, then I really believe that the answer from that officer. I think that that is a committee system will fail. weakness, but we will see how it goes. If the Ministers play ball and they are willing to say, The other point that I want the Premier and "Yes, I am quite happy for my officer to answer the Leader of the House to take note of is that the questions to the best of his ability", the the seminars that were to be organised for Opposition will be happy. However, it will review members of Parliament have not yet been its position after 12 months. organised. At this stage, there is doubt about whether they will even take place on 30 May, the As I said, the Opposition is willing to go day before the Budget. I express concern about along with this for the first year on a trial basis. that. The education officer has said that the Mr LINGARD (Beaudesert—Deputy seminars have not been organised because of Leader of the Opposition) (10.15 a.m.): On the cost involved in bringing members of Tuesday morning, I asked the Premier a question Parliament to Brisbane. It would be a failure by simply because at that time a sessional order had this Government if it did not conduct the not been agreed to and members of Parliament seminars for members of Parliament and public did not have the specific details. However, I servants so that they could discuss what appreciate that in the two or three days since procedures—— then, we have been given these sessional Mr MACKENROTH: I rise to a point of orders, which explain a few things to us. One of order. The Government will not run any seminars; the things that I was concerned about was the Parliament will. The Government is not whether we were going to base our Estimates running the show. Committees on those in the New South Wales Parliament which sit for only two and a half or Mr SPEAKER: There is no point of order. three hours. However, we must respect the fact Mr LINGARD: I have no doubt that every that the New South Wales Legislative Council member of this House understands what I am has six committees and that the Lower House saying—that pressure needs to be applied so has 21 committees, making a total of 27 that those seminars are conducted. At this stage, committees. they are being put back, postponed continually, The sessional orders have not allocated and the fact that they may be held only on 30 times. However, I have spoken to the Leader of May is, I believe, ridiculous. the House, who has given a verbal guarantee We must remember that New South Wales that what will happen on the first day is that we will has two Houses of Parliament. It is not true to say have questions in the House and that at 11 that we are conducting our committees in exactly o'clock these Estimates Committees will meet the same way as New South Wales conducts its and they will decide how long for the rest of the committees, simply because it has more day those committees will sit. It will need the committees. goodwill of the members of the committees, My last point is that we must respect the fact especially Government members. The that, at this stage, the committees in the House Opposition would be upset if the committees will only allow the shadow Ministers to speak for decided at 11 o'clock that the hearing was going five minutes and that, if the Ministers do not to go for only two or three hours. The Leader of show goodwill during the hearings of the the House has agreed verbally with us. He has Estimates Committees, it could be that the spoken to us and said that it might go during the shadow Ministers will be blocked out of this afternoon and may go during the night. system completely. However, clearly, it will not go for two days. The Legislative Assembly 7875 28 April 1994
Dr WATSON (Moggill) (10.19 a.m.): I rise watch the committees in action. If they do not to comment upon the motion moved by the feel that this whole committee system is working Leader of the House. Let me say that for in a democratic way and that everyone involved somebody who has publicly advocated has an opportunity to probe, question and seek Estimates Committees not only here but also information in the pursuit of public accountability, elsewhere, I was very surprised a few weeks ago then the Government—as the architect of those when the Premier announced that he was going committees—will fall into public disrepute, as will to recommend—or at least he was all members on those committees. It is important convinced—that the Parliament should have for the Government to understand that it is in its Estimates Committees. I guess I was hoping best interests, as it is for everyone on this side of today when the Leader of the House moved the the House, to ensure that these committees motion that perhaps this might fall into that work fairly, justly and are seen to be democratic. category of events which Neil Armstrong Motion agreed to. described when he landed on the moon, as Mr SPEAKER: Order! Before calling the being one small step for man but a gigantic step Leader of the House, I would like to respond. for mankind. I thought that perhaps the same Normally, I would not do this from the Chair; I thing was going to happen here in Queensland. would make these statements privately to Unfortunately, I think these proposals can be members. It was difficult for the Parliament and described only as a very small step for the Goss my staff to organise briefing sessions before the Government and even a smaller step towards Parliament agreed to the new procedures. Now public accountability of the Executive. that it has, I am happy to announce to members It seems that these procedures have been that the seminar for members will be held on 30 designed to restrict access rather than to open May and for public servants on 1 June. Details of access. That may be a technical point. It seems to the program will be sent out to all members next me that one can design a set of procedures week. which will encourage the dissemination of Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH information, or one can design a set of (Chatsworth—Minister for Housing, Local procedures which will restrict it. In my opinion, Government and Planning) (10.24 a.m.), by these are directed more towards that end of the leave, without notice: I move— continuum rather than the other. "(1) That notwithstanding anything Some of the previous speakers mentioned contained in the Standing Orders, the the operation of the committees. That aspect Budget Estimates for the 1994-95 does concern me. A committee of the Parliament financial year for the purpose of debate has to collect and weigh evidence. It has to have in the Legislative Assembly shall be in an opportunity to re-examine evidence, and also the form of an Appropriation Bill and an the individuals who gave it, before coming up Appropriation (Parliament) Bill. with a report. I do not see that that will necessarily (2) Subject to the sittings of the occur. Legislative Assembly, the estimates My second concern is that these committees meet to hear evidence in committees will not be given the traditional accordance with the following powers of committees of the Parliament to call for schedule— persons, papers or things. In many ways, these (a) Estimates Committee committees are neutered before they start. They A—Thursday 9 June 1994 are parliamentary committees in name, but not parliamentary committees in substance. That is of (b) Estimates Committee B—Friday concern. The history of public accountability, 10 June 1994 from Runnymede in 1215 to Queensland in (c) Estimates Committee 1994, is that one has to drag the Executive C—Tuesday 14 June 1994 kicking and screaming towards public (d) Estimates Committee accountability. These committees are a small D—Wednesday 15 June 1994 step in the right direction. While it is a small step in the right direction along the road, the journey (e) Estimates Committee has a long way to go. E—Thursday 16 June 1994 Mr ELLIOTT (Cunningham) (10.22 a.m.): I (f) Estimates Committee F—Friday want to say a couple words, in particular to the 17 June 1994 Premier. If we are not going to have goodwill on (3) That, in accordance with the resolution both sides in respect of this exercise, then not agreed to earlier today, Members be just the Premier but all of us in this House will appointed to estimates committees as have egg on our face in relation to our standing follows— with the public. Some members of the public will Estimates Committee A— 28 April 1994 7876 Legislative Assembly
Messrs Barton, Borbidge, Budd, On behalf of the committee, I wish to Davies, Mrs McCauley, Mr Nunn express appreciation to those people who and Mrs Sheldon provided submissions and who gave evidence at Estimates Committee B— public hearings. This public input is integral to the committee process. I also thank Hansard for Mr Beanland, Ms Bird, Messrs its support and acknowledge the efforts of Cooper, Pitt, Purcell, Stoneman and T Sullivan committee staff involved with this inquiry. In particular, I would like to mention the work of the Estimates Committee C— Secretary of the Travelsafe Committee, Mr Mr Briskey, Ms Edmond, Messrs Downey. On behalf of myself and committee Horan, Quinn, Santoro, Ms members, I would like to acknowledge his Spence and Mr J Sullivan professional and excellent work, not only on this Estimates Committee D— report but also for all of the reports in which he has been involved. His degree of Dr Clark, Mr Littleproud, Ms Rose, professionalism makes the Travelsafe Committee Messrs Slack, Szczerbanik, what it is. Veivers and Welford Finally, this report contains Estimates Committee E— recommendations which are required to be responded to in this Parliament by the Messrs Bennett, Connor, Gilmore, responsible Ministers, pursuant to section 10 of Nuttall, Pearce, Perrett and Ms Power the resolution which established the Travelsafe Committee on 12 November 1992. I commend Estimates Committee F— the report to the House, and look forward to the Messrs Dollin, Hobbs, Johnson, relevant Minister's responses to the committee's Lingard, Livingstone, Robertson and recommendations in due course. Mrs Woodgate be agreed to." PARLIAMENTARY PUBLIC WORKS Motion agreed to. COMMITTEE Report and Transcript PARLIAMENTARY TRAVELSAFE Ms SPENCE (Mount Gravatt) (10.27 a.m.): COMMITTEE I table the Report of an Inquiry into the Cairns Report and Transcripts Convention Centre from the Parliamentary Committee of Public Works and I move that the Mr ARDILL (Archerfield) (10.24 a.m.): I report be printed. table a report from the Parliamentary Travelsafe Committee on local area traffic management, and Ordered to be printed. I move that the report be printed. Ms SPENCE: I also lay upon the table the Ordered to be printed. following transcript of evidence: inquiry into the Cairns Convention Centre, transcript of Mr ARDILL: I lay upon the table of the proceedings of a public hearing held in Cairns on House transcripts of evidence taken at 31 March 1994. This inquiry was a natural committee hearings during its inquiry on local extension of that which the Public Works area traffic management. Hearings were held on Committee conducted into the Brisbane the Gold Coast on 22 March 1993, in Convention and Exhibition Centre. Members of Toowoomba on 23 March 1993, in Brisbane on the House will recall that the committee made a 24 March 1993, and in Rockhampton on 29 April number of recommendations as a result of that 1993. The report that I have just tabled makes inquiry and that many of these were adopted by recommendations about managing traffic for the Government. This is evident when one improved safety in residential streets. examines the approach taken to the Cairns A local area traffic management scheme—or Convention Centre. In particular, the level of LATM, as it is commonly referred to—is one consultation has been high, with the public and option available to local authorities that are various user and community groups being besieged with requests to slow traffic and reduce invited to put their opinions forward. volume in residential streets. The report makes However, the Public Works Committee does recommendations in areas which are hold some concerns in relation to costs fundamental to the success of any LATM associated with building the associated scheme but which, unfortunately, are either exhibition facilities, as well as the need to ensure forgotten or not done thoroughly enough. high standards of performance when there is a level of remuneration associated with design Legislative Assembly 7877 28 April 1994 competitions. The committee, therefore, makes process, its practices and procedures will need recommendations in relation to these matters, as its ongoing attention. However, these works well as other more general issues such as traffic appear to offer value for money and properly movement and planning for major tourism address identified problems in the regions. I developments. The committee congratulates commend the report to the House. those involved in the project and is sure that their efforts will result in a substantial capital asset for Cairns and for Queensland. Mr Speaker, I PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE OF commend the report to the House. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS Tabling of Documents PARLIAMENTARY PUBLIC WORKS Mr HOLLIS (Redcliffe) (10.30 a.m.): I seek COMMITTEE leave to table documents associated with the Public Accounts Committee's inquiries into the Report and Transcript Gold Coast Motor Events Corporation and the Ms SPENCE (Mount Gravatt) (10.28 a.m.): standard of preparation of departmental I table a report of an inquiry into the statements. The results of those inquiries were Landsborough Highway, Jessamine Creek, and the subject of the committee's reports Nos. 28 University Road, Townsville, projects. I move that and 29 respectively, which were tabled on 15 the report be printed. April 1994 pursuant to section 18 of the Public Ordered to be printed. Accounts Committee Act 1988. Ms SPENCE: I also lay upon the table the Leave granted. following transcripts of evidence: Landsborough Highway, Jessamine Creek works, transcript of REPORT ON COMMONWEALTH proceedings of a public hearing held at Winton PARLIAMENTARY ASSOCIATION on 29 March 1994; and University Road, CONFERENCE AND OVERSEAS VISIT Townsville, transcript of proceedings of a public hearing held at Townsville on 30 March 1994. Mr NUNN (Hervey Bay) (10.31 a.m.): I lay upon the table of the House a report on the This report is a wide-ranging one that covers thirty-ninth Commonwealth Parliamentary large-scale redevelopment works carried out by Association Conference, which was held in contract in the central west of the State, as well Cyprus from 6 to 11 September 1993. as urban works in Townsville being constructed Accompanying that report will be a report on my by the Department of Transport. The committee subsequent visit to the British Isles, Los Angeles was impressed by the work carried out in the and Honolulu. I take this opportunity to remind central west and is convinced that it will do much the House—— to remedy the problems associated with wet season access in the area. Mr Borbidge: Honolulu! The committee is particularly concerned that Mr NUNN: I take note of the comment by a uniform and adequate approach is taken in the Leader of the Opposition. I remind the determining the need for environmental impact House that that was not governmental business; statements in roadworks, and I would seek the it was parliamentary business. It was a genuine Minister's assurance that he will take this attempt by the Queensland Parliament to attend particular matter on board to ensure that proper a world-ranking conference that has a profound consideration is given in this regard. influence on world thinking and decisions made in higher places at other conferences. In relation to the University Road project, the Department of Transport actually tendered for Mr GRICE proceeding to give notice of a and won the work. Its price was extremely motion— competitive, and a level of concern was Mr GRICE: I table the document. expressed that its tender may not have taken Mr SPEAKER: Order! My patience with account of all commercial costs and that there the practice of giving notices of motions is may have been some conflict of interest. The wearing very thin. I will not allow notices of motion committee makes recommendations which are to be used to debate an issue. A notice of designed to ensure that in future no such motion should be simply that. I suggest to uncertainty can exist and that equality of members that, if they were to turn up at their local competition and fairness in the award of tenders P & C meeting, or to any meeting, and try to can be seen to have occurred. move the types of motions that they have been The committee accepts that the Department moving, such motions would not be acceptable of Transport is still moving towards full at those meetings. I will ask the Clerk to examine commercialisation and that, as part of this this practice. In the next session, I will outline 28 April 1994 7878 Legislative Assembly much stricter guidelines regarding what can be (3) Who recommended Mr Chep to the contained in a notice of motion. I will not allow panel, ie short listed Mr Chep and does notices of motion to be used as debating points. Mr Chep have her full support?" Mrs SHELDON proceeding to give notice of Ms ROBSON: I seek leave to table the a motion— answer and have it incorporated in Hansard. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will Leave granted. resume her seat. This is an example of exactly 1. The Interview Panel consisted of Dennis what I am talking about. The member is debating Devine, District Manager, Coastal the issue. I suggest that that is not a notice of Management, Gordon La Praik, District motion but a statement. I will not allow members Ranger and Keith Stafford, Project Officer to use notices of motions to debate issues. I will (Enforcement). have my staff look at it. 2. The Panel had available to it Mr Chep's Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. written application, referee information and Until such time as there is a change to the material obtained from Mr Chep at interview. Standing Orders or a ruling is given—— 3. Mr Chep applied for the position, along with Mr SPEAKER: Order! I will be issuing 16 other applicants. The Panel members guidelines in the future. The notice of motion short-listed Mr Chep and three other given by the member for Caloundra is not within applicants after consideration of all the present guidelines. The Standing Orders do applications. All interviewed applicants not allow members to debate an issue by way of a were asked identical questions based on notice of motion. the key selection criteria approved for the position. In addition some questions Mrs SHELDON: Mr Speaker, I seek your seeking further clarification were asked of ruling. What indeed can we move—— individual applicants. Government members interjected. Interviewees were allocated 60 minutes to Mrs SHELDON: I know that Government answer questions, state their case and provide any additional information in members are not interested in truth and support. The recommendation to appoint accountability. However, Mr Speaker, I seek your Mr Chep was made after interviewing the ruling. Through the notice of motion that I was four short-listed applicants and proceeding to give, I wanted to highlight to the consideration of all the information House the concerns held by me and other available to it. The decision to recommend people about the Minister. How else am I to Mr Chep was unanimous. The interview highlight such issues? My notice of motion followed the Public Sector Management contains some very simple dot points. Standard Procedures for Recruitment and Selection. All my staff have my confidence Mr SPEAKER: Order! In its present form, and support until such time as evidence is the notice of motion is debating the issue. The produced to me that they do not deserve member can table her notice of motion, and I will that confidence and support. have it edited by the Table Office. When the House resumes, I will outline guidelines about what can be contained in a notice of motion. I will 2. State School Principals not allow the practice to continue whereby Mr QUINN asked the Minister for members use notices of motion as a debating Education— mechanism. That practice has been occurring "(1) How many State schools are currently frequently in this Chamber. without a permanent principal? (2) How many of these schools have been QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE without a permanent principal for more than six months? 1. Mr M. Chep Mr SLACK asked the Minister for (3) How many have been without a Environment and Heritage— permanent principal for 12 months or longer?" "With reference to a question on 27 April from the Leader of the Opposition Mr COMBEN: I seek leave to table the regarding Mr Chep and her answer to that answer and have it incorporated in Hansard. question— Leave granted. (1) Who was on the panel referred to? 1. There are currently a total of 75 principal vacancies. This represents approximately 5 (2) What information relating to Mr Chep percent of the total number of principalships was available to the panel? across the State. Legislative Assembly 7879 28 April 1994
As I have indicated in this House on many 1. CHARGE DECISION occasions because of the size and nature of the The decision to accept a plea of guilty to unlawful Department of Education there will always be a wounding and dangerous driving was made by staff turnover as principals retire, die, relinquish the Crown Prosecutor at Cairns, who was in their position or are promoted. charge of the case. The Director of Prosecutions To highlight this high turnover rate I point out that in Brisbane, based on the information conveyed of the 75 current vacancies 62 have become to him by telephone by the Prosecutor, indicated vacant since the start of the 1994 school year acceptance to the offer would be proper in those and 39 of the 75 vacancies have become vacant circumstances. this month alone. 2. CONSULTATION 2. Only 6 principalships have been vacant for Before the pleas to the lesser charges were more than 6 months but less than 12 months. Of accepted police were consulted and the victim these 3 of the advertised positions have closed was advised. No evidence was sought as to and the interview and selection process is Calanca's psychological state before the pleas underway. were accepted. 3. 7 principals positions have been vacant for 3. OPPOSITION more than 12 months. However, again of these 6 No of the positions are currently undergoing the selection process. 4. AN APPEAL I should point out in relation to both the Member's An appeal was lodged by me against the second and third question there are a variety of sentences which were imposed. They were reasons why on occasions principals position probation for 2 years and 200 hours of take some time to fill. Such reasons include community service. The Court of Appeal in failure to find a suitable candidate, individuals dismissing my appeal said, inter alia: being appointed to a school but refusing to take "and he (the Crown Prosecutor) said in the up the position or the individual may be selected course of his submissions that a custodial but receive a promotion or offer to another sentence would certainly not be school necessitating the readvertising for the inappropriate, thus conceding, in my view, original vacancies. that a non-custodial sentence would have been an appropriate sentence in the unusual circumstances of this case. In 3. Mr D. Calanca those circumstances, it seems to me that Mr BEANLAND asked the Minister for the Attorney cannot now complain that a Justice and Attorney-General and Minister for the non-custodial sentence is outside the appropriate range of sentences which the Arts— learned sentencing judge could have "With reference to the acceptance by imposed." the prosecution of a guilty plea on a charge COMMENTS TO QUESTIONS: significantly less serious than the original In Queensland, plea bargaining does not charge of attempted murder against Damon exist—that is real LA LAW stuff, where the judge Calanca in the Innisfail District Court in July gets in amongst the bidding and indicates what 1992— he thinks is a fair cop before the trial. (1) Who made the decision in the We have charge bargaining. It is a very necessary and realistic requirement for ensuring Prosecutions Office to accept the convictions. In the first Calanca case, given the guilty plea to the charge of unlawful nature of the admissible evidence, it was all too wounding? possible that the jury would not have convicted (2) Were the police, the victim or his family on attempted murder. consulted before the lesser charge He could have walked free. plea was accepted and was evidence Prosecutors must at times, in consultation with sought as to Calanca’s psychological the Director, make a decision as to what charge state before accepting the plea? they think will achieve a guilty verdict in front of a jury. On the other hand, the Director of (3) Did the prosecutor oppose the Prosecutions always charges the highest charge granting of a community service order he thinks the admissible evidence will sustain to Calanca? and on which a jury would be likely to convict. (4) Was an appeal lodged against the The Director of Prosecutions has advised me community service order, if so; why that he counselled the Prosecutor in the original was it rejected?" case for not arguing robustly enough. Mr WELLS: I seek leave to table the answer and have it incorporated in Hansard. 4. Minister for Justice and Attorney- Leave granted. General and Minister for the Arts 28 April 1994 7880 Legislative Assembly
Mr BEANLAND asked the Minister for Mr SANTORO asked the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General and Minister for the Employment, Training And Industrial Relations— Arts— "(1) Will he table those documents (eg "(1) What was the cost of the charter flight contracts, lease agreements and on which he travelled from Mt Isa to details of lease payments, wage and Brisbane on the evening of Thursday, partÐtime salary approvals) relating to 16 December 1993, which arrived in financial management issues at Ipswich Brisbane in the early hours of Friday College of TAFE; specifically (a) the morning? use of college buildings, equipment (2) Why was it necessary to take a and other resources by a private chartered flight and not a regular training provider known as The Training commercial scheduled flight between Post; and (b) the agreement between Mt Isa and Brisbane? the college and the Ipswich and West Moreton Building Society, whereby the (3) Did he have appointments arranged in college fashion studies section Mt Isa for the following day, Friday, provided staff uniforms for the society? 17 December 1993, which he cancelled?" (2) At the time of this agreement did DEVETIR’s internal audit section Mr WELLS: I seek leave to table the become aware that the college had answer and have it incorporated in Hansard. large sums of money invested in Leave granted. unauthorised accounts with the (1 to 3) While I was in Mt Isa I was advised that I society? could get a charter flight to Brisbane after my (3) When these accounts were closed, evening function on Thursday December 16. was the interest as well as the capital So I returned to Brisbane that night. I met with transferred by the college to the Chief Justice at 9.30 a.m., the Director of appropriate head office accounts? Prosecutions at noon, and had certain consultations with leaders of the legal (4) If such interest was not transferred, on community in between. It was highly desirable what was it expended? that these meetings and consultations occur (5) Will he provide details relating to the that day, as a key person was going on leave mid production, by a media consultancy, of that afternoon. As a result of my early return, what was supposedly a college arrangements of importance to the legal system were able to be made before Christmas, including promotional video and can he confirm arrangements which ensured an earlier whether or not this video has been appointment of key judicial officers than would viewed by audit staff?" otherwise have been possible. This was a very Mr FOLEY: I table a number of documents valuable result, and one that could not have relevant to this matter. I seek leave to table my been achieved if I had caught the commercial flight which did not return to Brisbane until mid- answer and have it incorporated in Hansard. afternoon Friday. Leave granted. My office had originally made arrangements for (1) (a) I table copies of the following me to spend my time usefully on Friday while documents— waiting for the Mt Isa-Brisbane commercial flight, . contract dated 4 March 1991 between but these were arrangements that could be the then Director of the Ipswich pursued at some other time, whereas the matter College of TAFE and the principal of that took me to Brisbane was pressing. Six the Training Post. persons including four departmental officers, one staffer and myself returned on that flight. . an unsigned document entitled "Memorandum of Agreement between The charter cost $5,500. Savings on the Training Post and Ipswich College accommodation and commercial airline fares of TAFE" dated 11 May 1993. exceeded $3,000. For the remaining $2,500 the taxpayer got an extra days work out of six highly . an agreement to hire facilities placed public employees, and the finalisation between the current Director of before Christmas of the matters I referred to Ipswich College of TAFE and the above, which I assure the Honourable Member principal of the Training Post dated 31 was worth many times that amount to the people January 1994. of Queensland. My Department has advised that in the time available it has been unable to locate any other document relevant to this matter. 5. Ipswich TAFE College (b) I table a letter dated 17 November 1989 from the General Manager of the Ipswich Legislative Assembly 7881 28 April 1994
and West Moreton Building Society, to the impact of the proposed management regime on then Director of the Ipswich College of the island. I say to members that it is not a regime TAFE. that is anything apart from good management. My Department has advised that in the time The closure of the Orchid Beach airstrip was an available it has been unable to locate any item for hot debate, and quite clearly we other document relevant to the said welcomed that debate. The consideration given agreement. to it crossed departments and it crossed a range (2) Yes. The Director General of my of groups, which I actually read out to the Department referred this matter, together honourable member. The bottom line was that it with a number of other accounting was a difficult decision to make not on the basis irregularities, to the Criminal Justice of whether—— Commission and it is the subject of a current investigation. Mr Borbidge: Where are they going to (3) My Department has advised that an land? immediate answer to this question requires Ms ROBSON: They can land on the reference to documents not currently in its beach, for a start. We will be providing helipad possession as the documents have been access for those people. The reality of life is that made available to the Criminal Justice Commission. most of the landings at the Orchid Beach airstrip have not been for medical purposes. Where are (4) My Department has advised that an they going to land? The choppers will land on a immediate answer to this question requires helipad we will provide. I suggest that members reference to documents not currently in its possession as the documents have been read the report first, inform themselves and then, made available to the Criminal Justice when they come back to the House, they might Commission. have some of the answers to the questions they (5) A promotional video was produced in are now asking. The report is very clear and October 1992. The video has been viewed concise. by the internal audit staff of DEVETIR. I Mr Borbidge: The Department of have directed my Department to Emergency Services fought the closure of the investigate this matter urgently and will airstrip: "Yes" or "No". advise the Parliament accordingly. Ms ROBSON: I told the honourable member that there was consultation across-the- QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE board. Not all of the people who were consulted Orchid Beach Airstrip agreed. Mr BORBIDGE: Further to her ministerial Mr Borbidge: What about the people? statement this morning regarding the closure of Ms ROBSON: I am giving the honourable the airstrip at Orchid Beach on Fraser Island, I member the answer in my terms, not his. Not all refer the Minister for Environment and Heritage of the people who were consulted agreed. to the Government's decision to allow the sale of There were 350 submissions on that last round. freehold land on Fraser Island on the basis of The reality of life is that we did what we believed access to an airstrip. With reference to her was the correct and safest thing to do for the announcement today, I now ask the Minister: best management of the island in order to why is she closing that airstrip, which serves as a ensure that access is as free as possible and that vital medical and safety link for the residents of the island is cared for in the way that the island? Does the decision to close the airstrip Commissioner Fitzgerald recommended it have the support of the Department of should be. Emergency Services? In regard to other closures on the island, I ask: will Aboriginal groups and tour operators be granted preferential access to Privatisation of Suncorp any areas of the island that are to be closed to Mr BORBIDGE: In directing a question to the public? the Treasurer, I refer him to his many vehement Ms ROBSON: I will answer the last rejections of the privatisation of Suncorp on 23 question first. No preference will be given to and 29 October 1991, 12 and 18 March 1992, anybody. We do not distinguish between 28 April 1992 and 12 and 19 May 1993. I also Aboriginal people and non-Aboriginal people. refer the Treasurer to his comments in this place No preference will be given to people on the on 18 March 1992, when he said— basis of the religious persuasion, creed or "There are two parties if this House colour. advocating privatisation. The Labor Party is As to the access to the island—a lot of advocating corporatisation. The honourable mythology has been going around about the member can get out amongst the public as 28 April 1994 7882 Legislative Assembly
much as he likes and try and justify his Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for contention that the Government ought to Crows Nest! privatise ports or that it should privatise Mr BRADDY: The first matter that must be Suncorp or other Government enterprises. taken into account when talking about policing, The honourable member should see if he law and order issues and crime is the recognition can sell that to the public." that, in our society today, people in the I ask the Minister: does he stand by his community and the Government must be active commitment not to privatise Suncorp, and what and must be determined to improve resources action will he take if the Premier decides to and to work together. Secondly, of course, the proceed with the sale? corollary to that is that one must not exaggerate. Mr De LACY: I note the honourable The member for Crows Nest has a problem with member's support for public ownership. exaggeration. Mr Foley: He is becoming more socialist There have been some very interesting every day. developments in Mackay since the Labor Party came to Government. When we came to Mr De LACY: I sometimes wonder who we Government in 1989, there was an established are dealing with in this House. I would like to take strength in the Mackay district, which of course this opportunity to put on record my covers Mirani, of 149 police officers. Today, it has acknowledgment of the Opposition's an established strength of 172 officers—an acceptance of the independent umpire on increase of more than 15 per cent. Tuesday. Time after time, members of the Opposition stand up and talk about the sanctity Mr Cooper: How many actual? of the Industrial Commission. Now we have the Mr BRADDY: In fact, there are more. The Leader of the Opposition putting on record his actual is over 180 at the present time. support for public ownership. That is different Mr Cooper: Actual? from what he said at the last election. Mr BRADDY: The actual is over 180. In Mr Borbidge: Do you stand by your relation to the current situation, the member for previous decision? Crows Nest is always trying to find out how many Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the police officers in a particular district are on Opposition has asked his question. holidays, have been transferred or are awaiting Mr De LACY: I think the Government's transfer out of the region, as though in 1989 all position on Suncorp has been made very clear. the officers were always there, that none of them At this stage, a study of Suncorp is being ever had holidays, that none of them were ever conducted. We hope that that study will point to transferred and that none of them were ever any problems associated with the continued promoted. In 1989, he implied that if there were public ownership of Suncorp. Until such times as 150 officers in a region, they were always there that study is completed, we cannot advance the all of the time. What absolute nonsense. The matter any further. member knows that in 1989, as in 1994, when there is an establishment of a couple of hundred Mr Borbidge: You didn't want a study last police officers or a couple of thousand police year; you said it wasn't on. officers, a certain number will be on holiday, Mr De LACY: Let me make this clear: the subject to transfer or subject to promotion. Government has not made a decision to sell Mr Cooper interjected. Suncorp. It has no plans to sell Suncorp. What this Government is doing is what any responsible Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for Government would do, that is, keep these Crows Nest! matters under review. The honourable member Mr BRADDY: In terms of making sure that can be assured that whatever decision we make we get the transfers there as quickly as possible, will be in the best interests of the people of the Police Commissioner and the Police Service Queensland. has brought in—— Mr Cooper interjected. Police Resources, Mackay District Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member Mr PITT: I ask the Minister for Police and for Crows Nest under Standing Order 123A. Minister for Corrective Services: could he advise Mr BRADDY:—a new system of lateral the House what improvements have been made transfers that will make the necessary changes to police resources in the Mackay police district? more efficient and speedier when there are Mr BRADDY: I welcome the question. promotions and transfers, all of which is very important to the system. In addition, however, to Mr Cooper interjected. Legislative Assembly 7883 28 April 1994 the extra police officers, we have, of course, a his eyes, because there is a lot going on. I can significant increase in the budget: $7.5m under understand that this would be a bit of a revelation Mr Cooper and his colleagues, $9.2m under to the Opposition, because for years it did us—an increase of almost 23 per cent. nothing in that area. It has overlooked the In relation to crime in Mackay, which the enormous contribution which the mining industry member continues to exaggerate, the true has been making to our economy, particularly to situation is this: the district contains 3.8 per cent the welfare of the people of Mirani. of the State's population, but only 2.5 per cent of Had members of the Opposition taken the reported crime, yet the member for Crows Nest is trouble to visit Mirani earlier this week, they would up there asserting that Mackay is the drug capital have seen the largest coal shipment ever to of central Queensland. I can assure the member leave Australia. It left from Hay Point. The largest for Crows Nest that that was not well received single shipment of coal ever from an Australian either by the police or the Mackay community. I port, 231 000 tonnes, left Hay Point on the Iron was there yesterday and they were talking about Pacific. Almost 208 000 tonnes of coal from the the hide of this person. The member for Crows Goonyella, Peak Downs and Norwich Park mines Nest used figures relating to possession. Well were on that vessel. That is a clear demonstration over 90 per cent of the reported drug offences in of what this Government's policy is achieving for the Mackay district were for possession. If the the mining industry in this State and for regional honourable member was talking about a drug development. capital, he would be talking about situations of Mr Lingard: There is very little coal at large scale drug crime arrests and reports. That is Dalrymple Bay. not the case in the Mackay district. The police have been very active and have been very Mr HAMILL: I would suggest very little proper, but to insult that community and the knowledge on the part of the member for Police Service in the way the member for Crows Beaudesert. Maybe he should have gone up Nest did shows how desperate he really is. there with the member for Gregory; then it would really have been a case of the blind leading the Dalrymple Bay Rail line blind. Dalrymple Bay and Hay Point are Mr PITT: I ask the Minister for Transport performing exceptionally well. I invite the and the Minister Assisting the Premier on member for Beaudesert to go up there and see Economic and Trade Development: can he for himself the sort of development that is taking inform the House of any changes to the rail line at place in this State because of the stability Dalrymple Bay and can he explain how those provided by the economic policies of the Goss changes will benefit the people of Mirani? Labor Government. Mr HAMILL: Very significant work has been undertaken at Dalrymple Bay. It follows on Mrs K. Humberdross; Crime Wave from my comments yesterday regarding the increased capacity of Dalrymple Bay and Hay Mrs SHELDON: I direct a question to the Point as the largest coal handling facilities not Minister for Police. In light of the crime wave that only in Australia but also in the world. We are has been hitting Queenslanders across the expecting that by the turn of the century, some State, I table a letter from Kerry Ann 52 million tonnes of coal will be handled by that Humberdross in which she details an amazing facility. litany of crime that has hit her family in the past two years, in which they have had stolen a total of The honourable member for Mulgrave is three televisions, two video recorders, one car, making an inquiry regarding coal-handling two wallets, two watches, jewellery, cash, racing facilities and the associated rail infrastructure. By bikes, a CD player, clothes and a car stereo. I ask: September this year, we will have the duplication given that the Minister received a copy of this of the rail handling facilities for the dumping of letter on 11 April, what has he done to address coal at Dalrymple Bay as part of a $160m the specific concerns of Mrs Humberdross? expansion of that port. I am disappointed that the When will he act responsibly in regard to this member for Gregory has not come back from his crime wave that is occurring? fact-finding mission in Mirani. Mr BRADDY: In relation to crime in Mr Beattie: He got lost. Queensland—as the honourable member well Mr HAMILL: I do not think he would have knows, the Government makes no apology for got lost. I believe that he found that there was so the fact that we regard very seriously the fight much happening in Mirani because of this against crime, so seriously that we have Government's policy of building up the significantly increased police numbers. That is infrastructure that, whereas he thought he could the first and most basic point. If one is fair dinkum get by with a cursory glance, it has really opened about fighting crime, one makes sure that the 28 April 1994 7884 Legislative Assembly police to population ratio in Queensland is second part of the honourable member's relevant to the need—unlike our predecessors, question is not relevant. who had the worst record in Australia. Under the previous Government, this State had the worst police to population ratio in the country. Pecuniary Interests Register To try to suggest that the election of our Mr LIVINGSTONE: I refer the Treasurer Government meant that, all of a sudden, criminals to his comments that he has requested his decided that Queensland was the place where department to review the guidelines of the they could operate is a load of nonsense. pecuniary interests register for Ministers and Members opposite know that the crime rate in their possible application to all members of State Queensland is comparable with that of other Parliament, and I ask: can the Treasurer inform States. They also know—but refuse to the House of the progress to date of that review? accept—that in some areas crime is being Mr De LACY: I am pleased to do so, attacked more vigorously and more efficiently because I believe that this initiative is supported than it is anywhere else in this country. by all members of the House. Following calls by Queensland now has 1 500 more the Leader of the Opposition during the last operational police than it had when Mr Borbidge sitting week for more accountability by and Mr Cooper were Ministers in the previous parliamentarians, I asked my department to look Government. The situation is very serious. This at the pecuniary interests register. I believe that year, we will complete the computerisation of the Leader of the Opposition made some valid crime reporting, so that police can spend more points in the sense that there are some time working as police officers and not writing out ambiguities in the current register. I believe it is reports. The CRISP system will be completed important to remove those ambiguities. The this year. It is a very expensive computerised particular issue raised by the Leader of the system that is very important in the battle against Opposition was the need to disclose income. I crime. We are moving to get more police into have asked my department to look at ways in operations. which all income from all sources can be disclosed. In relation to the particular matter raised by the honourable member—I will take that matter I believe that all members would agree that, on board and have a look to see what has these days, the public deserves greater occurred. I do not know the details of that accountability. I welcome the bipartisan approach particular matter offhand. Lots of matters are to this issue taken by the Leader of the referred to me. I will check it out and let the Opposition. It is pretty unusual for so-called honourable member know what the process is. conservative parties to look for more accountability in respect of pecuniary interests, because generally they are implacably opposed Auditor-General's Report on Audits of to it. Those people who reckon that there is a Local Governments mob of Right Wing ratbags opposite should Mrs SHELDON: I refer the Minister for perhaps reconsider. Local Government to the report of the Mr Borbidge: You've got a credit union Auditor-General on Audits of Local Governments director sitting in Cabinet and voting on for the 1992-93 financial year, which was tabled legislation. Are you going to fix that? in Parliament yesterday. In that report, the Mr De LACY: The Leader of the Auditor-General refused to support the decision Opposition has made his point. I agree it is of the Labor council to put a $7.7 billion value on important that not only the material interest be land under roads in the city and to declare land declared but also that all income be declared. We under roads to be worth more than $24m in have taken that on board. If the honourable revenue for that financial year. Given that the member has further suggestions, we will take Auditor-General says in the report that there is no those on board, too. We want the best pecuniary reliable basis on which the council can attempt to interests register in Australia. value such assets, I ask: does the Minister support the dodgy accounting of Lord Mayor As I said, this must be the first time in Soorley? Will he accept the Lord Mayor's recorded history that the conservative parties doubtful accounting procedures when it comes have joined with the Labor Party to get this level to the allocation of State funds? of accountability. We are prepared to go along with them, and we will ensure that the people of Mr MACKENROTH: The Auditor-General Queensland get what they deserve in this has raised an issue which I am sure the Brisbane respect. City Council will rectify. That being the case, the Legislative Assembly 7885 28 April 1994
Government Services, Sarina trusted on release to work schemes, home Mr LIVINGSTONE: I ask the Minister for detention or whatever. The people who are Administrative Services: can he inform the there for more serious crimes are only House what steps his department has taken to considered by the corrections board when they improve the delivery of Government services to are very close to being granted parole—when Sarina? they have behaved in a proper manner. Unless they are sentenced to life imprisonment, at some Mr MILLINER: This Government has a time all these people have to be released into very strong commitment to rural and provincial the community and professional decisions have Queensland. As a result of that commitment, we to be made. have put in place a QGAPP system whereby we are providing services to country Queensland. We have to consider what is occurring To date, the Queensland Government has put in overall in Queensland. In relation to the number place 13 of those agencies, which are providing of people who are absconding— during the a whole-of-Government service to the period 1 July 1993 to 27 April 1994, 1 580 communities in which they are located. They community supervision orders were made. have been outstandingly successful because During that period, less than 1 per cent of the the people who are now operating those people were involved in breaches—0.13 per agencies are very well trained. People who are cent. Queensland has a far better record than employed as QGAPP agents undertake 8 weeks' that of the other large States. Only Tasmania and training to give them a broad knowledge of the the ACT have a better record in terms—— Government sector so that they are able to Mr Connor: Because you falsify the provide the information to the communities in figures. which they are located. Mr BRADDY: These figures are supplied At the last election, the Government gave a to me by the Queensland Corrective Services commitment that it would expand the QGAPP Commission. The honourable member can agency network throughout the State. As part of supply any information that he might have that is honouring our commitment to do that, I am credible in relation to any figures that he says are pleased to announce that we are about to open falsified. Queensland has a good record. another QGAPP office in Queensland. That I am very intrigued in relation to one of these office is being opened at Sarina. The people of matters that Mr Cooper has been going on Sarina will be very well served by that office. The about. Mr Howard Thomas has been at large for office in Sarina will be run on behalf of the several years now. In fact, he was released Government by the Department of Justice and pursuant to an order made by His Excellency the Attorney-General. It will deliver very good Governor on 10 August 1989, when Mr Cooper services to the people of Sarina. I am please to and Mr Borbidge were in office. Mr Thomas is be able to announce that today. one of those 10 people who Mr Cooper has been singling out as a murderer and who is at Escapees large in the community. Mr Cooper released him! Mr COOPER: In directing my question to the Minister for Police, I refer to the State's 10 Gaol Escape Penalties most wanted criminals at large and the fact that of Mr COOPER: In directing my question to those 10 only one actually escaped from gaol the Premier, I refer him to the promise that he with the rest literally strolling free from home announced on 16 February 1992—two years detention, halfway houses and release to work ago—that gaol sentences for prison escapees schemes. Remembering that these criminals and anybody who helped them would be included two killers, a rapist serving 18 years and doubled and that the new penalties would range four bank robbers, I ask: how does the Minister up to seven years' gaol. I ask: when was the justify to Queenslanders, particularly police Premier's promise translated into legislation and officers, a correctional system that allows such a what are the current penalties for escaping from situation to occur so easily, yet places both gaol and assisting escapees? As a corollary to police and the public at horrific risk? that, has his Government accepted the Mr BRADDY: In relation to those people recommendation that the Public Sector who are absconders from community Management Commission made in its report on supervision, it is always a matter for community the Corrective Services Commission that section concern when anybody who is in that category 93 of the Corrective Services Act should be escapes. We have a system of the Queensland repealed specifically with regard to prisoners' Community Corrections Board—an independent offences which carry a penalty of imprisonment body which decides when people are to be of three years or more and that the generally 28 April 1994 7886 Legislative Assembly lesser penalties provided for these offences in schools of the air were really just a facility where the Criminal Code should apply? there was a microphone and the teacher talked Mr SPEAKER: Order! There are about to the kids. Today, seven major schools are out three questions there. there—runner schools. Recently, I was out at Longreach at the mini school where the children Mr W. K. GOSS: I will have to come back are brought in from outside for two weeks a year to the honourable member about the particular section of the PSMC report. In relation to the so that they can socialise, and so on. Late last general thrust of the question—the situation in year, I opened a school in Emerald. It is a dual relation to escapes from prison or escapes from campus between Emerald and Rockhampton. It various other schemes, such as community is a beautiful school. It is a great facility serving supervision or whatever, are an inevitable part of central Queensland, which is one of the growing every prison system and every criminal justice regions of this State but where too many system—no matter how good. The situation in students are still isolated. relation to penalties is one in which the courts do What does the member for Gregory have an adequate capacity—— say—that we should not have had two Mr Cooper: You said they'd be doubled. campuses? A decision was made to make two campuses because the local parents said, "It is Mr W. K. GOSS: I think there was an inadequate if we have one school there as a hub adequate capacity to penalise. The Government because kids cannot come as easily to the is considering, however, as part of the general school. They will not be as well serviced." So we review of the criminal justice system, the Criminal made an innovative decision to put it on two Code and penalties that go with it, whether or not campuses with one administration, and it is we should be seeking to send a signal from the working well. I find it bemusing and perplexing as Parliament and the Government to the to why the member for Gregory would have said community generally that that needs to be that. He should not be going around his treated more seriously. electorate suggesting that we start to close one It is my understanding from what the of the campuses. Attorney-General is saying behind me that he He made reference to there being technical has put that matter in train. I do not recall the problems with the transmitters in Rockhampton. precise date, but if the member is genuinely We certainly do have some technical problems. interested, I am happy to communicate more They are technical. It is not a case of money or directly with him. failure to adequately look at the problem. We are trying everything that we can at present to School of Distance Education, address the problem. In particular, we have done three things: we have installed new diagnostic Rockhampton computer cards in the base equipment. That Mr PEARCE: I ask the Minister for relates to a technical problem that I do not even Education: is he aware that the member for claim to be able to understand, but we are trying Gregory has made outrageous claims that to find an answer. Secondly, we have called in Rockhampton is not deserving of a school of additional expertise from Brisbane to try to distance education? Could the Minister advise address the problem. Thirdly, we have secured the House whether it is true that it was the valuable assistance of the Civil Aviation unnecessary to provide a school of distance Authority. education facility in Rockhampton? Could he also Our approach is to work towards a long-term advise of the Government's response to the answer to the problem rather than settling for a technical difficulties which have been identified quick-fix solution, such as shutting down the with radio transmissions at the school? Rockhampton campus, which would be a grave Mr COMBEN: I am certainly aware of the injustice to those students. I imagine that the remarks made by the member for Gregory that member for Keppel would not be supporting that Rockhampton is not deserving of a school of sort of thing. distance education. It is a shameful comment. Overall, when I have been to Rockhampton One of the greatest things that we have done in and Emerald, which is the split campus, I have education in the last few years, which should be seen a very vibrant campus—a school that is appreciated by the members on the other side of obviously going ahead. It is serving the needs of the Chamber, particularly the member for the community very well. I challenge the member Gregory, is create the seven schools of distance for Gregory to go to that area and say to those education in this State. His whole area is covered parents, "He is thinking of shutting it down", by real schools of distance education. The old because they will not allow him to say that. I am Legislative Assembly 7887 28 April 1994 pleased that, recently, the member for Mansfield All I can do is apologise to my colleagues for was in that area and had the same feelings for this result and say that that is the price that they that great school. It is a great school that is doing pay for having a transparently fair system. I note a great job for 250 students at a cost of $4.5m. I that the Leader of the Liberal Party was saying do not think that we will be closing it. last week that she did not want the form to Arts Grants contain the question about electorates. I also note that a columnist for one of the weekend Mr PEARCE: I ask the Minister for the papers said something very similar. We could do Arts: what response has the arts community that, but it would be at the sacrifice of this type of made to attacks by the Leader of the Liberal accountability. I would like to table a full list of the Party on the independence of the peer electorates, the funding by the RADF and the assessment process? arts grants allocations which were received by Mr WELLS: I am glad the honourable organisations and by individuals. member has asked that question, because I have Honourable members, particularly those on been waiting all week for the Leader of the the other side of the House, might become Liberal Party to ask it. Last week, she was suspicious if they notice that two electorates are swanning around casting all sorts innuendoes conspicuously missing from that list. Those two and slurs on people. However, upon coming into electorates are the fair electorate of Murrumba, Parliament, she does not ask anything at all. which happens to be the electorate of the The first point that I would like to make about present Minister for the Arts, and the electorate the member's allegations, including the of Logan, which happens to be the electorate of allegations that the Government could be using the Premier, who was previously Minister for The the arts grants system to prop up the Arts. Before their suspicious little minds start Government's marginal electorates, is that this ticking over, let me say to the House that the Government does not get to see at all the reason those electorates do not appear on the addresses of the recipients of arts grants. It sees list is that, in those electorates, there were no the recommendations of the peer review system. arts grants, no Regional Arts Development Fund When the honourable member's party was grants, and no applications. This coincidence is a in Government, it did not have a peer system. It very clear symbol of the transparent fairness of had a slush fund. Last week, she objected to the the peer review system. fact that there was a question on the form asking what electorate applicants lived in. According to Protection for Workers my department, that question was inserted during the period that the Liberals were in Mr SANTORO: I ask the Minister for Government. Employment, Training and Industrial Relations: what action is he able to take to protect the In order to demonstrate the transparent interests of workers wrongly accused of fairness of the peer assessment system and in malpractice in the workplace? order to demonstrate the fact that the Government has a completely hands-off Mr FOLEY: If the honourable member's approach with respect to it, I would like to table a question refers to allegations of criminal conduct, list of marginal electorates and indicate how then I would remind him that it is the function of much went to each of those marginal electorates. the court system to determine issues of guilt or I should note that, looking at arts grants alone, innocence. If the honourable member wishes to $54,000 went to the five most marginal be more specific in his question, I am happy to try Opposition electorates; for the five most marginal to take the matter further. However, posed as it is Labor electorates, the amount was zero as to what protections might be available to a person in a workplace wrongly accused of—— Government members: Shame! Resign! Mr Santoro: Wrongful dismissal—what Mr WELLS: In the 10 most marginal Labor does your Act say about wrongful dismissal? seats, $116,000 was spent; in the 10 most marginal coalition seats, $145,000 was spent. Mr FOLEY: Mr Speaker, through you, I am Only one of those electorates received both a happy to take the honourable member's second Regional Arts Development Fund grant and an question. I am delighted that the honourable arts grant, and that was the electorate of that member has at long last found some interest in great friend and patron of the arts, the members' the law with respect to unlawful dismissal friend and mine, "Mr Whip 'em till they bleed" because this matter seemed to elude him in the Vince Lester. In the 20 most marginal Labor course of the debate on the industrial relations seats, $251,000 was spent; in the 20 most reform legislation held in this Parliament in marginal coalition seats, $409,000 was spent. February. Indeed, I am thankful that the honourable member has raised the matter, 28 April 1994 7888 Legislative Assembly because I seem to recall the honourable member 1993-94—an increase of 99 per cent. Take, for raising the alarm about what a dreadful thing it example, the case of the library facilities on the might be if the Federal legislation and the State South Bank. One of the issues that has legislation providing for industrial relations reform prompted the reforms that have been so were passed with respect to unlawful dismissal. successful with regard to the establishment of Yet what does one see from the experts who the Southbank Institute of TAFE was the have examined this legislation? It is a great necessity to have library facilities that were shame that the honourable member has not available in COTAH and library facilities available consulted more fully with members of the legal right next door in the South Brisbane College of profession to get the benefit of their views with TAFE made more available to citizens who respect to industrial relations reform laws. They wished to study. are telling us that, in many ways, the Federal Mr Santoro: What have you done since legislation codifies and brings the law of Australia that report? up to that standard which had been enjoyed in the State of Queensland following the excellent Mr FOLEY: I note the enthusiastic reforms introduced by my illustrious interjections of the honourable member. I thank predecessor, the Honourable Neville Warburton, him for his encouraging interjections in that the former member for Sandgate—Sandgate, of regard. I draw the honourable member's course, being the home of many great law attention to developments in regard to access by reformers, Nev Warburton and Lord Atkin being TAFE students to facilities available through the among them—who, in 1990 in this very Open Learning Institute. Chamber, introduced legislation that provided Mr Santoro: We're talking about the not only for the remedy of reinstatement but also libraries. for the remedy of compensation. That provision Mr FOLEY: It is increasingly important that has been refined in the course of the legislation access to library facilities be not only to books that was recently placed before the House. and written material but also to electronic data. In With respect to the various detailed aspects that respect, it is most important to note that, as to what may constitute unlawful dismissal, I throughout the State, the facilities of the open refer the honourable member to the provisions learning system have been enhanced through a of the Act. I thank him for his interest in the similar reform to that undertaken with the matter. I welcome his concern that persons who Queensland Distance Education Centre. are wrongly accused should have access to the Through library facilities, TAFE staffing and independent umpire, the Industrial Relations integrating TAFE more satisfactorily with the Commission. business and industry sector, this Government has brought TAFE out of the Dark Ages in which it was left by the previous Government. It has Young Report given TAFE the sort of funding that it needs in Mr SANTORO: I refer the Minister for order to truly serves the interests of the Employment, Training and Industrial Relations to community. It has provided it not only with books the recent Young report on the Queensland and written material but also access to computer TAFE system, which is now almost one year old, facilities and electronic data to assist students in and in particular to page 9 of that report, which the community and workplaces. states that in the Queensland TAFE system, existing library provisions act against quality learning and teaching and that library Port of Karumba expenditure is only one-third of an adequate Mr BREDHAUER: I ask the Minister for level. I ask the Minister: what action has he taken Transport and Minister Assisting the Premier on to ensure that all libraries in Queensland TAFE Economic and Trade Development: can he colleges are resourced to proper levels since inform the House of the future of port that report was produced and given to the development in the Gulf of Carpentaria? Minister many months ago? Mr HAMILL: I draw all honourable Mr FOLEY: I thank the honourable members' attention to a document that has been member for the question. The funding that was released by the Ports Corporation of available under the previous Government to Queensland—the draft Karumba Port Plan. The TAFE colleges in this State did put them in very plan contains a number of projections of trade considerable difficulty. It is important to note in development as it would affect the port of that respect, for example, that since 1988-89, Karumba and the infrastructure requirements to when the previous Government spent a mere service that growth. I am sure that all honourable $213m on TAFE, we have increased the Budget members would have welcomed the allocation for the TAFE system to $424m in announcement by the Premier yesterday of the Legislative Assembly 7889 28 April 1994 decision to undertake a major analysis into the The Arts Advisory Committee is viability of the Century mine project in the compelled to respond to the questions you north-west mineral province. One of the issues have seen fit to raise publicly regarding the that has to be addressed in relation to that is the credibility of the arts grants assessments destination of any ore concentrates produced process in Queensland." from that mine. Mr FitzGerald: What's the date on the There are a number of potential mining letter? developments in the mineral province. It is by no Mr WELLS: The date on the letter is 21 means clear that all of that product will necessarily April. pass through the gulf or through the port of Townsville. That is why the port of Karumba has Mr FitzGerald: She hasn't got it yet. been analysing its capacity to handle prospective Mr Hamill: She should have opened her exporting of mineral concentrates through that mail. port. As well, the port of Karumba is expecting to Mr Borbidge: Why do you get it when she see a significant increase in the amount of cattle hasn't got it? exports over the next few years. Additionally, the products of the fishery of the gulf are also a Mr WELLS: My secretary is obviously staple export commodity through that port. more efficient than Mrs Sheldon's secretary at opening the mail. I wish to read—— One issue of importance is that of dredging, which has been a problem for the Norman River. I Mrs SHELDON: I rise to a point of order. I think it was in 1888 that the then State take offence at that slur against my staff. I ask the Government resolved that sedimentation of the Minister to withdraw it. Norman River was a problem for shipping in that Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is the member area. Dredging has to be a consideration for any asking for a withdrawal? future development of Karumba. The plan that is Mrs SHELDON: I seek a withdrawal of being released acknowledges that fact. It what the Minister said about my secretary. acknowledges that for any dredging requirements, whether they be to facilitate the Mr WELLS: I withdraw any imputation export of mineral concentrates or any other against the efficiency of the honourable commodity, the proper environmental member's staff. safeguards need to be observed. It really will be a Mr SPEAKER: Order! There was no decision in relation to mineral concentrate request from me to do so; that is not required exports that will determine whether large-scale under the Standing Orders. dredging is undertaken. The other trades Mr WELLS: I will do it anyway in order to be through the Port of Karumba of themselves are gracious. I would like to tell the House what the probably insufficient to make large-scale arts community is saying about the Leader of the dredging an economically viable proposition for Liberal Party. I can understand that she and her the port. colleagues would want to shout me down, but it is important that honourable members know this. Arts Advisory Committee These distinguished artists stated— Mr BREDHAUER: I ask the Minister for "It is deeply regrettable that you have Justice and Attorney-General and Minister for the questioned the integrity of the assessment Arts: has the Arts Advisory Committee panel and committee members, implying responded to attacks by the Leader of the that they are 'toadies' of the Government. Liberal Party on the integrity of the artists Nothing could be further from the truth." involved in the peer assessment process? Mr Santoro: What's the date of this letter? Mr WELLS: The answer is, "Yes". I Mr WELLS: I have answered that question understand that the committee wrote a rather already. The date of the letter was 21 April. I scathing letter to the Leader of the Liberal Party. know the member had a late night, but he should The committee sent me a copy of it, which I have be able to follow that much. The letter here. The letter was written by Professor Graeme continued— Turner on behalf of Dr Helen Lancaster, Chair of "The forty or more artists and arts the Performing Arts Assessment; Mr Ralph workers who have been involved in decision Tyrell, Chair of the Multi Arts Assessment Panel; making since the inception of the peer and Professor Ian Howard, Chair of the Visual assessment system three years ago are Arts, Craft and Design Assessment Panel. extremely angry about your comments. Inter alia, the letter states— . . . "Dear Mrs Sheldon 28 April 1994 7890 Legislative Assembly
The process of peer assessment Ms WARNER: Do members opposite want depoliticises funding decisions by drawing an answer to the question? directly on those most qualified to judge the Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for merit of the applications." Western Downs! The letter concludes— Ms WARNER: Do members opposite want "I trust you will accept our genuine an answer to the question or not? concerns and that on future occasions you A Government member: They don't will ensure you are better informed before want an answer. accusing the peers of political bias. Ms WARNER: They probably do want an . . . answer to feed their prurient minds! The answer Our task has been made more difficult by to the question is that no-one has been sacked what you have done." and five people have not been examined for Mrs Sheldon owes the arts community an their virginity. apology. In questioning the independence of the peers, she has attacked the independence Westbrook Youth Detention Centre and integrity of many of the State's most prominent artists. Indeed, she has attacked the Mr LITTLEPROUD: I direct a second arts community itself. As a result of these question to the Minister for Family Services and slanders, Mrs Sheldon has lost all credibility in Aboriginal and Islander Affairs. Because of her the arts community. If she has any political nous, ministerial statement that she was appalled by she will ask "Mr 12 per cent", who is sitting next the reported level of physical and verbal abuse at to her, to give her a different shadow portfolio. Westbrook and the fact that now the inmates are insisting that those allegations are wrong, I ask: does the Minister acknowledge that she has a Jindalee Home Care Centre responsibility to protect her workers and take Mr LITTLEPROUD: I direct a question to appropriate action to clear their names or give the Minister for Family Services and Aboriginal them the chance to clear their names of those and Islander Affairs. Some weeks ago, I asked charges of assault? about an intellectually disabled girl at a home care Ms WARNER: I believe that everybody's centre at Jindalee who was thought to have security at Westbrook has been taken into either had a miscarriage or had a pregnancy consideration, and the issues that were outlined terminated. The Minister indicated then that in the report—— there was some truth in the allegations. I ask: is it Mr Littleproud interjected. true that five women at the same centre have been medically examined and found to have lost Ms WARNER: I did not write the report. their virginity and that a staff member has been The investigation was undertaken by the sacked? Is there any connection between those department. It made some findings. Those two issues? findings were tabled in this House. There were also other recommendations in respect to the Ms WARNER: I find the honourable location of Westbrook and whether it should member's question somewhat questionable in remain in use in the future. As I explained to the taste and decorum. I cannot imagine of what House, for all of the aforementioned reasons, a interest it is to him—— decision was taken to close Westbrook. I believe Mr Littleproud: You know about it. that that was a correct and rational decision, and I Ms WARNER: I cannot imagine of what stand by it. Every effort is being made to ensure interest it is to the honourable member the security of both staff and boys during the whether—— transition process. I would be grateful if the honourable member opposite would adopt a Mr Santoro interjected. more responsible attitude to the very sensitive Mr Cooper interjected. matters that are involved in this—— Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for Mr Littleproud interjected. Crows Nest and the member for Clayfield will Ms WARNER: The member has cease interjecting. absolutely no understanding of the issues Ms WARNER: I have to register my involved in this portfolio. The contribution that he disgust at the question, because I find it quite made on Tuesday to the Matters of Public reprehensible that anybody would want to—— Interest debate was 90 per cent wrong. He does Opposition members interjected. not know the difference between a care and protection order and a care and control order, Legislative Assembly 7891 28 April 1994 which are basic concepts. The member does not in the infrastructure of the dry dock. One of the know the basics of this portfolio. first stages of that project will see the Mr Littleproud interjected. replacement of the caisson for the dry dock. We anticipate that the dry dock will be handling Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member vessels by September or October this year. for Western Downs under Standing Order 123A. Keppel Corporation, and indeed the joint Ms WARNER: His previous question and venture company, Keppel Cairncross Dockyard his persistent and stupid comments in respect of Australia, are very eager to get the restoration of law and order issues prove conclusively to the the dry dock under way. I believe that all general public of Queensland that he knows members should welcome this development, nothing about this portfolio. Not only does the because it makes the port of Brisbane more member know nothing but he also does not attractive and enables it to tap into the growing even care that he knows nothing. market for dry dock services in our region. Singapore is becoming extremely expensive and Cairncross Dry Dock highly congested. With shipping in the south-west Pacific, the opportunity of using a Mr PURCELL: I ask the Minister for facility in Brisbane will bring not only more trade Transport and Minister Assisting the Premier on through the port but also the opportunity of real Economic and Trade Development: could he jobs. Developments such as this are revitalising advise the House of the benefits of reopening the Queensland economy. Queensland is the Cairncross dry dock and the benefits to the indeed the leading State. people of Bulimba? Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time for Mr HAMILL: It is a pleasure but a surprise questions has now expired. to hear from the member for Bulimba on this important issue. This is one of those cases in which the National Party failed to deliver on yet FAIR TRADING AMENDMENT BILL another one of its promises when in Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH Government. In 1987, the National Party (Chatsworth—Leader of the House) Government closed Cairncross and promised (11.38 a.m.), by leave, without notice: On behalf that it would never open again. This is one of the Deputy Premier, I move— promise that this Government is pleased to see broken. The reopening of Cairncross represents "That leave be granted to bring in a Bill the revitalisation of ship building and ship repair for an Act to amend the Fair Trading Act in Brisbane. It will be a great boost to industry in 1989." the region. It is certainly a great boost to the Motion agreed to. attractiveness of the port of Brisbane and the other related maritime industries in this part of the State. First Reading Most significantly—and this is the area that I Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and know is of particular concern to the member for Bill, on motion of Mr Mackenroth, read a first time. Bulimba—the reopening of the Cairncross dry Second Reading dock means significant numbers of jobs being Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH generated in maritime repairs and ship building in (Chatsworth—Leader of the House) (11.38 Queensland. In fact, the reopening of Cairncross a.m.): I move— will see some 300 jobs generated at the outset, and it is expected that up to 1 000 jobs will be "That the Bill be now read a second created by the reopening of that very important time." facility. I seek leave to have the Deputy Premier's The Cairncross negotiations have been speech incorporated in Hansard. lengthy. I want to acknowledge the good work Leave granted. that has been put in by officers of my department When the Fair Trading Bill was introduced into and also the Port of Brisbane Authority. The re- this House and debated in 1989, it received opening of Cairncross is very significant in terms bipartisan support. The Government of the day of the ship-building industry in Australia. The described it as the "most significant piece of joint venture partner that is coming into consumer protection legislation ever introduced Cairncross is one of the largest ship builders in in Queensland". the world. I refer to the Keppel Corporation, The Fair Trading Act, however, is in need of whose operations are based in Singapore. The amendment to cure a number of omissions and to Keppel Corporation will be investing significantly ensure that it remains an effective and contemporary statute able to deal with changes 28 April 1994 7892 Legislative Assembly
in the marketplace and the need for greater One instance of a loophole of this kind related to interstate cooperation. the sale or purchase of land, the contract for The Bill now before the House is the most which specified that the transaction was "subject extensive amendment to the Fair Trading Act to finance". since its enactment. It seeks to amend the Fair With respect to a particular residential Trading Act in a number of ways: development in south east Queensland, a to provide for interim orders prohibiting or number of allegations were made that sales restricting the supply of dangerous or representatives were telling prospective undesirable goods or services. purchasers that they could insert a "subject to finance" clause in the contract. Purchasers were to extend the ambit of the Fair Trading Act told that, in the event they were unable to to cover transactions in land. arrange their own finance, the contract would be to provide a statutory basis for enforceable terminated. codes of practice. However, the fine print in the contract said that to insert a number of miscellaneous rather than being relieved of their obligations amendments to reinforce consumer safety under the contract in those circumstances, provisions in the Act, to address loopholes purchasers were required to take vendor finance following a court decision and to implement at an inflated rate of interest. current drafting policies and practices of Misrepresentations of this kind were not covered the Parliamentary Counsel. by the Land (Fair Dealings) Act because the I will deal with each of these matters in turn. misrepresentations prohibited in that Act relate Presently, under section 85 of the Act, there is a generally to matters connected directly with the procedure in place which enables permanent property itself. prohibition orders to be obtained banning the Up until now, the Fair Trading Act has applied supply of dangerous or undesirable goods or only to transactions involving goods or services. services. The extension of the Fair Trading Act to cover The procedure outlined in that section, involves land transactions will result in these types of extensive consultation, the giving of notice and loopholes being closed. associated requirements. This is time consuming Perhaps, more importantly, it will mean that and can result in significant delays in banning persons who have suffered loss as a result of dangerous items. This, of course, is detrimental misrepresentations made in respect of land to the safety of the community. transactions will have recourse to the much These provisions will allow, in appropriate cases, wider range of remedies provided for under the for a shortened procedure whereby the patently Fair Trading Act. dangerous item may be banned and withdrawn These remedies include the seeking of damages, from the market place. compensation and injunctions through the An example of one such appropriate case courts. occurred in August 1993 when an innocent prank Codes of practice have become an increasingly at a Mackay school went wrong. In that incident, popular mechanism for business regulation. a schoolboy had purchased a novelty item in the The Trade Practices Commission estimates form of a stink bomb. When it exploded, 19 there are about 3 000 codes of practice school children and two teachers had to be taken regulating an enormously wide range of to hospital, some with reasonably serious health businesses and industries in Australia. problems. The vast bulk of these codes, of course, are The provisions allowing for interim prohibition voluntary. This means that a person who suffers orders are of obvious usefulness in situations loss because a trader is in breach of a code of like this so that the product may be speedily practice has extremely limited options at his or removed from the market place until a permanent her disposal to remedy any loss. prohibition order can be obtained. One such possible option could be that the I turn now to the proposal to bring land consumer sue the trader for breach of contract, transactions under the Fair Trading Act. The by arguing that the requirements imposed by the Land (Fair Dealings) Act 1988, as the relevant code of practice are an implicit term or condition dates suggest, came into existence prior to the in the contract which he or she has with the Fair Trading Act 1989. Consequently, it was trader. This procedure is very unwieldy and could considered at the time the Fair Trading Act was have a number of legal difficulties if a consumer implemented that it was superfluous to have land decides to use it. transactions covered by it. What is becoming increasingly popular are However, since that time it has become apparent legally enforceable codes of practice which that there are some matters which are covered means codes are given some statutory teeth, by neither Act and, therefore, the most efficient but at the same time they will not be as rigid and way of addressing the problem is to bring land inflexible as legislation or regulations. transactions within the Fair Trading Act and treat them as any other consumer transaction. Codes will simplify the law, will be a flexible but effective alternative to regulation and legislation, and will in fact aid the parties concerned. Legislative Assembly 7893 28 April 1994
All other Australian jurisdictions (except Victoria) This Bill will amend the Land Title Act 1994. have legislated for these codes and it is As honourable members are aware, the Land envisaged they will be used as the mechanism to Title Act 1994, which came into force on 24 April implement various national initiatives. 1994, introduced a number of reforms to land Among the miscellaneous amendments, I would titling in this State by providing a means of draw the attention of the House to the proposal updating and streamlining the process of to amend section 40 of the Act by making it a registration of interests in freehold land. In breach of the Act to make a false or misleading representation about the value of an item. addition, the Act provided the legislative base for the automated titling system—ATS—which is the This amendment seeks to put beyond doubt the computer-based tool that will assist in the nature of misrepresentations about value referred to in the federal court case of Ducret v. streamlining process. The Land Title Act is a Chaudhary's Oriental Carpet Palace (1987) 16 piece of legislation which must practically apply Federal Court Reports at page 562 which centred principles of Torrens title registration to the on claims made about the value of a Persian marketplace. carpet. It was considered in that case that the In the period between the passing of the words in the corresponding provision in the Trade Practices Act, "standard or quality", may or may Land Title Act and now, the Act has been not cover false or misleading representations subjected to considerable scrutiny as to its about the value of an item, depending on operational capability both within Government individual situations. Apart from persian carpets, and externally. In that process, it has been this amendment has obvious ramifications for determined that to allow the Act to become more businesses such as jewellers. practically functional, a number of minor All of the amendments I have outlined have the amendments should be made. effect of making Queensland's Fair Trading Act The amendments of the Bill will correct a more uniform with the consumer protection number of minor typographical mistakes as well legislation of other Australian jurisdictions. as amending various sections to provide for the In this context, I should point out that there is a improved practical operation of the legislation in concerted move among States to enact fair the market place. The amendments, in essence, trading legislation which is as uniform as possible. This will help maximise levels of fall into two categories: functional amendments; consumer protection and foster greater and minor typographical or correctional cooperation in combating fraudulent traders amendments. operating in more than one jurisdiction. In this The functional amendments include: a way, the interests of consumers and legitimate change to the definition of "mortgage" to allow traders are best protected. the mortgage lodged for registration to include Mr Speaker, I commend the Bill to the House. covenants referring to personal property, for Debate, on motion of Mr FitzGerald, example, a boat or a car, as well as land; inclusion adjourned. of the requirement for a registered proprietor, whose interest is affected by a subdivision of land, to consent to the subdivision; definition of LAND TITLE AMENDMENT BILL the limits of the authority of an attorney under a Hon. G. N. SMITH (Townsville— Minister power of attorney; and ensuring that an for Lands) (11.39 a.m.), by leave, without notice: equitable mortgagee has the power to lodge a I move— temporary caveat to allow the mortgagee to "That leave be granted to bring in a Bill protect, by registration at a future date, the for an Act to amend the Land Title Act interest the mortgagee has in land. The 1994." correctional amendments, on the other hand, act only to replace words where incorrect or Motion agreed to. inappropriate words have been inadvertently used. First Reading The day-to-day operation and readability of Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and the Land Title Act will be enhanced by these Bill, on motion of Mr Smith, read a first time. amendments. I commend the Bill to the House. Debate, on motion of Mr FitzGerald, adjourned. Second Reading Hon. G. N. SMITH (Townsville— Minister for Lands) (11.39 a.m.): I move— NATURE CONSERVATION AMENDMENT BILL "That the Bill be now read a second time." Hon. M. J. ROBSON (Springwood— 28 April 1994 7894 Legislative Assembly
Minister for Environment and Heritage) effect to the legislation are efficient and (11.43 a.m.), by leave, without notice: I move— practicable and that any subordinate legislation "That leave be granted to bring in a Bill created has general application. for an Act to amend the Nature Matters related to the use of protected areas Conservation Act 1992." and needing regulatory status—which were to Motion agreed to. have been included in Statements of Interim Management Intent—will now be either addressed in the Nature Conservation First Reading Regulation relating to all protected areas, or may Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and be addressed in a particular management plan Bill, on motion of Ms Robson, read a first time. and given effect by specific regulation. Therefore, the Bill has removed requirements for Statements of Interim Management Intent to be Second Reading produced as subordinate legislation prior to the Hon. M. J. ROBSON (Springwood— development of management plans for classes Minister for Environment and Heritage) of protected areas covering Crown land, for (11.44 a.m.): I move— example, national parks. "That the Bill be now read a second These Statements of Interim Management time." Intent will be maintained as policy documents to guide effective management of the parks. The When the Nature Conservation Act was Bill has replaced the requirement to produce introduced into this House, honourable conservation plans as subordinate legislation for members were told that its primary objective was every protected area with a new requirement to to protect and provide for the security of nature produce management plans. As was the case for in Queensland. Since partial proclamation of the conservation plans, such management plans will Nature Conservation Act in May 1992, much has be approved by Governor in Council. This been achieved in this regard. This Bill will amendment has the effect of making strengthen and consolidate the functions of the management plans policy documents rather than Act. The Department of Environment and subordinate legislation. Many matters dealt with Heritage has given this Bill a high priority so that in a management plan would not be appropriate the principal Act can be consolidated and in subordinate legislation. The term reprinted in time for the commencement of the "management plan" has wide community and inactive provisions of the Act and make the Government recognition and understanding, necessary regulations and conservation plans and use of this term is favoured over effective. It is proposed to proclaim the remaining "conservation plan" for protected areas. The provisions of the Act as soon as practicable. term "conservation plan" will, however, continue This Bill clarifies a number of provisions to apply to the management of particular species which have been identified by the Department of of fauna or flora or groups of species. Environment and Heritage and the Office of the A protected area will be managed in Queensland Parliamentary Counsel. accordance with the provisions of the Suggestions for changes to the original Bill by management plan. This Bill does not alter the the Litigation Reform Commission and Government's commitment to public consultation Parliamentary Counsel have also been on management plans for protected areas. The incorporated. Bill has incorporated additional provisions to deal The Nature Conservation Act was partially with uses on national parks which do not conform proclaimed in 1992 to facilitate the many tasks to the management principles for national parks. that have to be completed in advance of full These new provisions will enable the department proclamation. Foremost among these were such to renew certain existing leases and authorities matters as the preparation of the Nature which have been previously granted over Conservation Regulation, conservation plans for national parks under the National Parks and wildlife, regulatory schedules for various Wildlife Act—other than for grazing categories of wildlife, and regulations enabling purposes—provided that a regulation has been the transfer of the existing protected area estate passed enabling the renewal of that interest. to the new Act from the National Parks and This will allow, for example, authorities for certain Wildlife Act, the Fauna Conservation Act and the existing navigation aids and communication Land Act. towers to be renewed on existing national parks. These proposed amendments will ensure Even though the use is inconsistent with the that the administrative processes by which the management principles set out in the Act, the Department of Environment and Heritage gives interests can be renewed for a period of 10 years Legislative Assembly 7895 28 April 1994 without reference to a management plan. The from the park estate. This is undesirable from a lease or authority may be issued for a further policy and a practical administrative perspective. period beyond 10 years provided that this is The Bill omits the words "any neighbouring consistent with any management plan for the area" from the section of the Act related to the area. proposal to declare a world heritage These new provisions will also enable the management area. This amendment has the department to recognise and regrant interests effect of removing the capacity to establish that may exist over land of high conservation coordinated management around a listed world value that is sought as national park, for either a heritage area. This implements an undertaking period of three years or for the balance of the given to rural producer groups by the existing term. This provision is designed to Government that buffer zones would not be facilitate the conversion of areas of land into declared around world heritage areas. The Bill national park that are, for example, currently amends the management principles for National subject to grazing permits over State forests and Parks (Scientific) which include parks specifically timber reserves. As it stands, the legislation set aside for the long-term survival of threatened would prevent this occurring without the species. For example, the only known resumption of those interests and the payment population of the northern hairy-nosed wombat of compensation. is on Epping Forest National Park near Clermont. If the use is for apiary purposes or stock This area will become a National Park (Scientific) grazing under an existing authority under the when transferred to the Nature Conservation Forestry Act or Land Act, the new authority Act. under the Nature Conservation Act may permit It is sometimes necessary to manipulate that use for a period which does not exceed the either the habitat or the numbers of other wildlife unexpired term of the existing authority. In the in an area in order to assist in the long-term event of another use, the authority may not be survival of a threatened species, and this issued for a period greater than three years. amendment will allow this to occur if necessary. Such authorities may not be renewed beyond The Bill amends or provides revised definitions these periods. Additionally, the new provisions of several terms used in the Act, for example, will also enable the department to grant new "indigenous to Australia", "indigenous to authorities over national park land where the land Queensland" and "protected animal". It defines is required for an essential public purpose and "fee" to include "a tax", which is a standard no reasonable alternative area exists. This could provision inserted to take account of recent only be achieved by satisfying the department decisions of the courts, and adds terms to clarify that no reasonably practical alternative exists and and broaden the meaning of "wildlife" to include that the proposed use is in the public interest. all living organisms. Before such an authority could be issued, a The definition of "protected plant" currently regulation would need to be passed authorising in the Act requires the rare or threatened plant to such a non-conforming use on the national park be "in the wild" in order for it to be protected. concerned. An authority under this section could Thus, any rare or threatened plant which is "in provide for emerging new uses such as a trade"—not in the wild—is not protected and is communication tower, a ship or aircraft navigation beyond the jurisdiction of the Act. This is aid or a water supply pipeline. These uses are potentially serious given that, providing a person presently precluded by the Act. is able to "poach" a rare or threatened plant from The new provisions will also enable the the wild without detection, action under the Act department to authorise and regulate to apprehend the offender on the basis of recreational fishing on certain specified national possession of that plant is not feasible. This parks where the parks have been traditionally amendment corrects that anomaly. used for this purpose. This provision would be It is proposed to regulate trade in protected subject to a sunset clause that would operate for plants with the cooperation of the nursery a period of five years. Notably, without these industry. The Queensland Forest Service will be changes to the Act, it would not be possible to authorised to regulate any trade in such plants renew any existing interests, or grant any new taken from land under Forestry control by way of interests over national park land where those a Memorandum of Understanding between the interests are inconsistent with the management Department of Environment and Heritage and principles for national parks. Consequently, to the Department of Primary Industries. accommodate existing interests or new interests The Bill clarifies the meaning of "private that are not compatible with the management land" and inserts new provisions relating to the principles, it would be necessary to revoke areas liability of the State on areas of land which are the subject of a conservation agreement or which 28 April 1994 7896 Legislative Assembly have been declared a nature refuge, policy of refusing to allow fee-paying students to coordinated conservation area or wilderness enrol. It should be noted that this Queensland area. The Bill clarifies the grounds for the Minister—in a flash of intellectual clarity—actually payment of compensation for injurious affection supported the concept of fee-paying students in to a land-holder's interest in land caused by the higher education, but sadly, in less than 24 declaration of a certain protected area or a hours, he was dragged by his Labor colleagues regulation giving effect to a management plan or back into the fog that passes for Labor Party approving a conservation plan. policy on this issue. The Bill amends sections of the current This sort of situation has led to university provisions of the Act to meet the fundamental infrastructure—everything from microscopes to legislative principles of the Government. They lecture theatres—being so deeply eroded deal with issues of fundamental rights, including during the decade of Labor's power that the power of stop and search, power to require name problem could become insoluble. The Vice- and address, power to require answers to Chancellor of the Australian National University is questions and compensation for loss or expense on record as saying that while infrastructure in the exercise of these powers. The Schedule generally had been run down, research to the Bill provides a number of minor and infrastructure had been critically eroded. consequential amendments to the principal Sydney's Vice-Chancellor has said that his legislation. university was running on the smell of an oily rag. Debate, on motion of Mr Slack, adjourned. He said, "I don't think the rag I'm smelling has any oil on it." Mr Comben: Who said that? SUNSHINE COAST UNIVERSITY COLLEGE BILL Mr QUINN: The Vice-Chancellor of Sydney University. He further stated that he did Second Reading not expect the Government to come to the Debate resumed from 14 April (see rescue. He said— p. 7551). "I'm not holding my breath. We're just Mr QUINN (Merrimac) (11.54 a.m.): The going to have to solve it ourselves; the coalition will be supporting the Sunshine Coast Government isn't going to solve it for us. University College Bill 1994. In speaking to the Over the years, Sydney is going to have to Bill, I will be making some general comments look at trading staff for adequate facilities. I'm about the provision of higher education in really quite cynical about getting any Queensland, and other coalition members who support." represent the Sunshine Coast community will be In light of these comments, the Minister's addressing other relevant local issues. appraisal of the Commonwealth's record as The Minister, in his second-reading speech merely disappointing is, as I have said, to introduce this Bill, described the recent history something of an understatement. of Commonwealth funding for higher education An analysis on a State-by-State basis further as "disappointing". As usual, where the highlights how shabbily Labor has treated performance of his Federal Labor colleagues Queensland. Although we are receiving a larger could best be described as pathetic, this proportion of growth funds this year, as recently Minister's understatement seeks to disguise as 1991 only 15 per cent of Australia's higher what is really a very serious situation in Australia. education funding for operating and capital The Unified National System—Labor's grants to universities was being allocated to policy approach to higher education, and under Queensland, which accounted for something which the Sunshine Coast facility is forced to like 19 per cent of the nation's Year 12 students. operate—is continually being slated by vice- Any way one wants to judge Labor's record on chancellors across the nation; the latest example higher education in Queensland, it is an abysmal being the Vice-Chancellor of the University of one—totally indefensible. It is this approach that Tasmania, who also happens to be the Chair of has been responsible for the delayed the Australian Vice-Chancellors Committee's commencement of the Sunshine Coast standing committee on research infrastructure. University College, which this Bill will establish. He said in a recent newspaper article that, under If the local authority areas of Caboolture, the current funding arrangements, Australia had Caloundra, Maroochy and Noosa are taken as the 36 average-quality institutions, none of which Sunshine Coast region, then its population will was truly internationally competitive. rise from some 237 000 in 1991—which are the Federal Government funding continues to latest census figures I have—to almost 300 000 be inadequate when combined with Labor's Legislative Assembly 7897 28 April 1994 by 1996—the year in which the university universities was formally removed, and all college is due to commence its first lecture. institutions were invited to join the unified Already that region is the eleventh-largest national system of higher education. area in Australia and, by 2006—within 10 years of The minimum size for an institution to the opening of the college—the population is become a member of the UNS was 2 000 projected to top the 430 000 mark. These equivalent full-time students. Institutions below figures reflect the fact that the south-east corner that size were required to have a formal of the State has been identified as the fastest relationship with a larger institution, which would growing region in the nation and that the negotiate funding and educational profile establishment of a university college on the matters with the Commonwealth. Institutions with Sunshine Coast is long overdue. It ought to be up to 5 000 EFTSs were similarly encouraged to noted that the Sippy Downs site was in fact merge with, or establish some form of affiliation acquired by the previous Government some six with, a larger institution. years ago for this very purpose. A number of former colleges of advanced The coalition supports the concept of education, which were, by virtue of their university colleges as a means of starting a locations, unable to enter into full amalgamation higher education facility. In fact, the concept of arrangements with larger institutions, chose using established universities to father colleges instead to enter into affiliation or sponsorship was developed and introduced by the previous arrangements. These were designed to meet Government in Queensland. In the case of the the Commonwealth's formal requirements for Sunshine Coast University College, the QUT is membership of the UNS and to assist the the parenting body. However, when the college institution to develop towards full university should be eligible to function as a totally status. In Queensland, both the University of autonomous institution should be determined by Southern Queensland and the University of criteria other than the 10-year time period as Central Queensland have such a sponsorship specified in clause 86 of this legislation. role played for them by the University of It is quite conceivable that university Queensland. The case for these arrangements colleges such as those on the Gold Coast and rests on the Commonwealth's view that a smaller Sunshine Coast, because of their geographical institution will spend a higher proportion of its location within areas that are expected to enjoy budget on general institutional overheads, will large population increases, may acquire the have a more limited infrastructure, and will not breadth and depth of academic teaching and have the critical mass of staff in some discipline research to qualify them for full university status areas to ensure depth and quality in all levels of prior to the 10-year time frame. Peer its academic work. approval—not a legislative time period—ought to In addition to satisfying Commonwealth be the sole criteria. Clause 86 can be viewed requirements for the UNS, the purpose of only as an unnecessary restriction—one affiliation/sponsorship arrangements for new designed to control the growth of these institutions is to provide quality assurance for institutions. It is a Government reminder to the some important functions: the accreditation of colleges to remember their place. academic awards, the selection and appointment This legislation lays the framework for the of senior academic staff, and the establishment university college on the Sunshine Coast to start of research and research training programs. This from scratch under the direction of a planning is generally done by having the sponsoring president through a transitional phase until the institution represented on the smaller council and vice-chancellor are appointed. It is institution's council, and on relevant academic legislation that the coalition welcomes as long committees, and perhaps exercising control of overdue and will be supported by members on research grants and the admission of doctoral this side of the House. students. In this way, clients of a new institution can be assured as to the standing of new Mr PITT (Mulgrave) (12 noon): I, too, courses, awards, and so on. This is particularly support the legislation before the House and important for fee-paying students from overseas. wish to make some general remarks regarding the purpose and nature of university In some cases, as with the Sunshine Coast affiliation/sponsorship arrangements. In 1988, University College, the new institution may take the then Commonwealth Minister for advantage of the economies of scale provided Employment, Education and Training, the by the sponsoring institution by purchasing Honourable J. S. Dawkins, introduced a new academic and administrative services from the policy framework for higher education in host institution where unit costs are relatively Australia. Under that policy, the distinction lower by virtue of size and the existing between colleges of advanced education and infrastructure is relatively good. 28 April 1994 7898 Legislative Assembly
The establishment of the new Sunshine which would produce around 15 000 person Coast University College as from 1 July 1994 with weeks of employment. A university is an a target of February 1996 as the teaching evolutionary institution; it keeps growing to meet commencement date, will set in train a series of change and to meet new demand. The presence events that will eventually meet the needs of a of a university facility and its research activities rapidly developing area. It will help to redress the can be expected over time to attract new situation of limited access to tertiary studies industries and to provide a stimulus to existing which exists for students outside the industries. Early planning for the Sunshine Coast metropolitan area. It has been estimated that University College is concentrating on identifying some 55 per cent of Queenslanders are industry cooperation opportunities in the region. disadvantaged in this way. However, since first A major concern in regional Queensland elected in 1989, the Goss Government has been centres is the drain on families—socially and very active in lobbying the Federal Government economically—when young people are forced to for funds to extend tertiary opportunities to leave home to study. A local higher education regional Queenslanders. A classic example of facility helps to redress this problem. For an area the success of these efforts is the finalisation of a like the Sunshine Coast, the development of timetable to establish a free-standing campus of new knowledge-based industries and the James Cook University on the Smithfield site appropriate levels of work force skills are a high north of Cairns. A cooperative effort on behalf of priority to which the university can potentially the Queensland Government and the Mulgrave make a real contribution. A truly functional Shire Council, along with the belated but university reaches out to the community it welcome involvement of the Federal serves. Government, has put a happy end to this on- again, off-again saga. I note that in just over four years, the Goss Government has expended approximately $40m A higher education institution represents a of taxpayers' funds on campus facilities at places significant economic activity in a community, such as Townsville, Mackay, Cairns, Bundaberg which derives multiple benefits from its presence. These are in the construction stage, and Gladstone. This represents a 20 per cent the ongoing operation of the university and, of movement in available funding to regional course, the multitude of other associated Queensland. That is something that the activities that go hand in hand with a vibrant members in this House should all applaud. To institution. support this, a similar sum has been directed towards giving Queensland students the At current Commonwealth funding rates, 1 opportunity to take on tertiary studies. Over 2 000 full-time students attract $10m annually in 000 additional school leavers now have Commonwealth operating grants. This student university places, thanks to the commitment of population creates a need for around 150 the Goss Government. Queensland has been academic and general staff who will live in the historically under-resourced in respect of tertiary local community. Estimates of the flow-on effect places. I know the previous Minister, Mr Braddy, of these resources are variously calculated as and the current Minister, Mr Comben, have been from 5 to 1, or 7 to 1. This represents a major tireless in their efforts to improve the situation for injection of funds into the local area. Because young Queenslanders. of its location, the Sunshine Coast University College has the potential to attract academics Queensland is Australia's fastest growing from other Australian institutions and overseas State. The Sunshine Coast is at the forefront of for study and conference purposes. One could that growth. The establishment of a full university not imagine too many places which would offer a college at the Sunshine Coast is therefore better all-round environment. Fee-paying indicative of this Government's measured overseas students will also be attracted to the approach to the provision of infrastructure and institution. They spend an average of $25,000 a services throughout the State. year on fees and living expenses and require Mrs SHELDON (Caloundra—Leader of local accommodation and services. In this the Liberal Party) (12.07 p.m.): At the outset I respect, the Asian market remains largely want to point out that I support this Bill, and I untapped. One of the important things that we greatly welcome it as yet another step in the must always remember in Australia is to maintain establishment of the Sunshine Coast University those high standards for which we are well College. Let us be honest about it—since 1989 known. In this way we will be able to continue to residents and businesses on the Sunshine attract these students. Coast have not had a lot of cheer when it comes Over a five-year period the institution would to getting essential services from this State expect to attract around $30m in capital grants, Labor Government. Today's legislation will clear the way for the Sunshine Coast university to be Legislative Assembly 7899 28 April 1994 up and running by February 1996. This is great My major problem with this new legislation is news for all of those Sunshine Coast people who that it does not allow the Sunshine Coast have lobbied hard and long to have our own University College, which will be run through the university, and great news for myself and the Queensland University of Technology, to other State members of Parliament on the become a freestanding university in its own right Sunshine Coast who have also worked hard to for at least 10 years. Some Government get this university established. members—those who may not know any Sunshine Coast families will be the first better—may ask just what the difference is beneficiaries of the university because they will between having a freestanding university and be able to keep their teenagers at home while having a college of the QUT. Ultimately, the they study instead of having to face the difference is where the loyalties of the Sunshine separation and financial hardship of sending their Coast University College lie. Do they lie with providing the best and most well-suited tertiary children to Brisbane or elsewhere in the State. education establishment for the Sunshine For an area which is now the third largest in Coast, or do they lie with its Brisbane masters? population in Queensland, and one of the fastest growing areas in the country, this I wish to point out that I have only the university will not be opening too soon. highest regard for the QUT, for its academic Sunshine Coast families have always been credentials and for the hard work that it has put forced to send their children away to university, into having the Sunshine Coast University and this has created great strain on family life. It College established. However, at the end of the has meant that children move away from families day, the QUT is Brisbane based. Under this and friends and face not only the hardships of legislation, the QUT will remain the controlling coping with university study and all its pressures, body of the Sunshine Coast university for at least but also the hardship of finding a new place to 10 years. I will quote from the Minister's live, new friends, and being forced to cope often second-reading speech. He said— thousands of kilometres away from their "Finally, the legislation provides for a traditional support base, which is, obviously, the review of the university college's status and family. its affiliation with the Queensland University It has also meant financial hardship for of Technology as soon as possible after 10 Sunshine Coast families, and for many it has years from the commencement of the Act." meant that their children cannot go on to tertiary Mr Beattie: They can get out earlier if they education. This is a tragedy for a State and want to. country which is trying to paint itself as being at Mrs SHELDON: This was in the Minister's the forefront of higher education. In this day and second-reading speech. Quite frankly, that is just age, financial restrictions should not stop an too long. eligible student from going on to tertiary studies. Yet that has happened on the Sunshine Coast Mr Comben: Do you know why we did it? because not only are families forced to cope with Mrs SHELDON: I understand that it is a the normal costs of university study, but also requirement of the Federal Government. they have to pay for the student to leave home Mr Comben: The other was the precedent and establish accommodation in the city where set by the former Government. So we decided to he or she is going to university. These are the follow it. human elements to the establishment of a Mrs SHELDON: But is there any reason Sunshine Coast university. These are the things to blindly follow precedents? which will directly touch on and improve the lives of Sunshine Coast families once the university is Mr Comben: Because it has worked and established. worked well, and by mutual agreement we can amend it. Another major beneficiary will be the Sunshine Coast economy, which will benefit Mrs SHELDON: Fine. I am just raising from the construction and operation of the concerns that are held certainly by the Sunshine university and, of course, the research and Coast University Association and by a lot of development that comes with any university people on the Sunshine Coast. I repeat that it is campus. I have called on the State Government no reflection whatsoever on the QUT. I think that to ensure that courses at the Sunshine Coast it has worked long and hard in getting this University College meet the needs of the local university college established and will no doubt area and cater for specific subjects on industries continue to give excellent service, supervision such as tourism. and guidance to—— Mr Comben: You will need it. 28 April 1994 7900 Legislative Assembly
Mrs SHELDON: I have no doubt they will. eventual opening. However, the logistical I am just saying that that is their concern and, if problems created by establishing a university possible, before the 10-year period expires, outside the main population area mean that a providing all the criteria are right, they would like massive upgrade of the public transport system to see some autonomy. on the Sunshine Coast must be undertaken over Mr Comben: I welcome and acknowledge the next two years to prepare for the university's that that could be the situation. It will be the opening. The Sippy Downs site is adjacent to the situation. If it is able to be autonomous and there Bruce Highway, but it is not included in any bus is general agreement, we will move that way. But runs and is still some distance from the closest no-one should be naive about the size of the train lines. university college being established and a belief The State Government must consider those that it can stand on its own feet. For some time it matters before the university becomes a public will require the nurturing of the QUT. That is why transport nightmare. Government land is it is there. available for a rail spur to provide the university Mrs SHELDON: I am quite sure the site with the vital public transport system it Minister is right, and I think those people are needs. I would seriously ask the Minister to aware of those situations. consider this, because if the land gets sold off for any other reason, then we have no chance—we The population on the Sunshine Coast has have a chance, but it is going to cost the exceeded 170 000 people already and, as the taxpayers of this State a heck of a lot of Minister has also stated in his second-reading money—to buy back that land in order to put in speech, it represents the largest population the spur. I think it is vital that we have this access centre in Australia without a higher education to, and upgrade of, public transport not only facility. Toowoomba, Townsville and because of the increasing population on the Rockhampton all have their own freestanding coast but also because of the university. universities, and it is my belief that the Sunshine Coast deserves its own freestanding university We have an electric rail line that extends to as soon as possible. I will continue to campaign Nambour, so I believe that we should have a rail for the college to become a university in its own spur from Landsborough to Sippy Downs. That right as soon as practicable so that it becomes would also provide one of the fastest-growing fully focused on the needs of the Sunshine areas on the Sunshine Coast with the closest Coast. station to the coast, which would be Landsborough, and which would service tens of To achieve this, the State and Federal thousands of residents as well as university Governments must provide the funding students. In time, with planning, people could necessary for the Sunshine Coast University access other stations that would provide general College to have the ability to become transport specifically for the university. The fact autonomous. It is more than just providing the of the matter is that the Sunshine Coast public funding for day-to-day operations; it is providing transport—— funding for the university to become independent. The Commonwealth has allocated Mr Comben interjected. $9.4m for capital development and the State Mrs SHELDON: I hope the Minister Government has allocated a further $3.5m for persuades the Treasurer that it is vital for the site works and services. The Federal Sunshine Coast to have adequate public Government has also offered $6m for 1996 and transport. At the moment, it is in an appalling $5m for 1997, with $3m a year for the university's state. The fact of the matter is that, currently, the operation from 1996, when it will open to 500 Sunshine Coast public transport system is students. Funding must be increased over the woefully inadequate. It would have no chance at first five years of operation to cater for what I all of catering for the transport needs of the believe will be unprecedented interest from university and the residential developments that students to study on the Sunshine Coast. So are springing up in Sippy Downs and in other that funding must also be available to ensure that areas of the Sunshine Coast generally. the university college can stand on its own two Also, if we are looking to inject technology feet as soon as practicable. and industry into the area, we have to have The Sippy Downs site for the university transportation for it. As I said, the area has an college is ideal to cater for the future growth of electric rail line, so we should look the campus and the future growth of the conscientiously at putting in a rail spur. I call on Sunshine Coast as a whole. I welcome the the Minister for Education, Mr Comben, to put university being developed on the boundaries of pressure on the Minister for Transport, David my electorate, and I know that the people of the Hamill, and, if necessary, the Treasurer, to have Sunshine Coast are extremely excited about its this rail line listed as a priority in the provision of Legislative Assembly 7901 28 April 1994 services for the Sunshine Coast University high unemployment and long-term College and the coast in general. It is not just unemployment. The Sunshine Coast must something that the State Government can get develop a broader economic base. It must not around to when it suits it; it is of vital need, if the rely solely upon the seasonal fluctuations of the transport system around the university and, tourism and housing industries for its job growth indeed, on the coast as a whole, is not to end up and income. The university is a vital cog in the in chaos. wheel of turning back Sunshine Coast The people of the Sunshine Coast have unemployment. It is a vital cog in making the rallied behind this university to an incredible Sunshine Coast a community in its own right degree and have shown time and again their rather than a disparate group of holiday resorts, support and commitment for its establishment. as some of those who do not live there believe it Although I recognise that the State Government is. I welcome this legislation. has provided funds towards the university's Mrs ROSE (Currumbin) (12.20 p.m.): It establishment, it must also provide transport for gives me pleasure to speak in support of the students and other people so that they can Sunshine University College Bill 1994. In properly access the site. The State Government Queensland, population growth poses the must also seriously consider providing funding greatest challenge to the maintenance and for the removal of overhead powerlines on the provision of adequate higher education places. site. I know that there is quite a bit of concern The Goss Government has prioritised the about this matter. I do not know whether they establishment of higher education facilities in could be shifted off the site or whether they regional areas with significant population growth. could be tunnelled under, but I ask the Minister As a result, we now have the imminent to consider this matter and find out what can be establishment of a Sunshine Coast university. done about those powerlines. It was a lack of vision and adequate planning Finally, I wish to speak about the financial that led the former National Party Government to benefits to the Sunshine Coast of having a ignore places such as the Sunshine Coast, university. The Sunshine Coast's major Cairns, Townsville, Mackay, Gladstone and industries are tourism, construction and Bundaberg when it came to acquiring adequate agriculture. The new university must cater for higher education facilities. This Government these needs by establishing courses that will rejects such an approach. That is what this Bill provide a core of professional personnel in those represents. As a member of this place industries. However, the Sunshine Coast is also representing a regional, or non-metropolitan, a perfect environment for light, clean industry constituency, I am pleased with the Goss and the university is the perfect avenue for Government's commitment to make higher providing not only trained personnel but also education more accessible to regional research facilities for those industries. The coast Queensland. I applaud the Minister for Education offers an incomparable lifestyle and standard of for his emphasis on providing more higher living, relatively inexpensive housing and education opportunities for the 55 per cent of industrial land for light industry, albeit nowhere Queenslanders living outside the greater near enough. The university is essential for Brisbane region. giving these light, clean, high-technology Since 1989, the Queensland Government industries a brain trust and a research centre with has made constructive and successful attempts which they can work, even to the extent of joint to address the need to provide higher education projects in order to develop projects that will add facilities in growing regional centres. The runs to the Sunshine Coast's economic base and are on the board. This Government's policy to diversity. expand higher education opportunities in At the end of the day, the No. 1 concern of regional areas has resulted in $37m in capital all families on the Sunshine Coast is funding and $42m in operating funding since unemployment. The unemployment rate on the 1990. I remind honourable members that our Sunshine Coast is running much higher than the financial commitment to taking higher education unemployment rate of the State and nationally. to regional Queensland has been in an area that Depending upon whom one believes, it ranges is primarily a Commonwealth Government from 15 per cent to more than 20 per cent. Youth funding responsibility. unemployment is up to double the overall figure, In the purchase of land and provision of painting a very sad picture of joblessness and water and sewerage services to the 100-hectare despair for thousands of the Sunshine Coast's site for the Sunshine Coast University College, young people. Those are the facts. Although the the Queensland Government has so far spent Treasurer and others crow about how wonderful $3.5m on the project. For the people of the Queensland is going, Labor's legacy is one of Sunshine Coast, that is money well spent. It is 28 April 1994 7902 Legislative Assembly money that will ensure that the intellectual capital continue lobbying the Commonwealth possessed by young people schooled on the Government to increase higher education Sunshine Coast does not drain away by their funding to Queensland. Only an increase in being forced to leave the region to seek higher Commonwealth funding can bring our higher education elsewhere. This affects the education participation levels up to the national development of businesses, service, average. This, of course, is not too much to ask, technology and, most of all, employment on the considering the ongoing net redistribution of Sunshine Coast. population from the southern States to In regional areas like the Sunshine Coast, Queensland. high population growth is making it essential that The catchment area for the Sunshine Coast we look to increasing local employment University College stretches from Pine Rivers to opportunities. This Government, through the Noosa and west to Kilcoy. This has particular work of the Minister for Business, Industry and personal significance to me, as I was born and Regional Development, Mr Elder, is promoting, raised in Kilcoy. In my early years in Kilcoy, encouraging and supporting the growth of the gaining local access to higher education facilities lucrative niche industries in regional centres. For was an unlikely achievement for the area, but example, on the Gold Coast and in Cairns, the now that access has been achieved by this information technology industry is showing Government. I am pleased for the people of the promising signs of becoming not only a large Sunshine Coast region as, through my own employer of local people but also a major boon to personal experiences, I know that such a facility the whole State's economy. But to encourage has been a long time coming. I am not surprised the development of these sorts of industries in that such an achievement has been made by a regional areas, we need a sound knowledge Queensland Labor Government. Catering to the base. That is where institutions such as the needs of regional Queensland is, and will Sunshine Coast University College come in. continue to be, a priority of this Government. I Through the provision of additional higher commend the Bill to the House. education facilities in regional centres Miss SIMPSON (Maroochydore) throughout Queensland, we are helping to (12.27 p.m.): The new Sunshine Coast support employment in areas of high population University College will not only benefit education growth. By doing this, we are also supporting the but will also enrich the life of our community. At growth of new and existing industries, based on present, the Sunshine Coast is the largest their ever increasing demands on local regional population in Australia not to have its knowledge pools. own higher educational facilities. It has been a In comparison with most other Australian birthing process from when the university was States, Queensland faces a greater challenge first mooted by my father, Gordon Simpson, in when it comes to ensuring that higher education his maiden speech as the member for Cooroora. is accessible to people throughout the whole The land was set aside and then dedicated State. Because of the size of Queensland and for this purpose under the former National Party the subsequent population distribution, taking Government. Great universities have to start higher education to the regions has not been somewhere. I know that the majority of Sunshine easy. But the philosophy of this Government is Coast people, whether or not they have children that there should be no barrier to higher who may benefit from this institution, are eagerly education access. That is what is happening, in awaiting its commencement. As a community, we practice, between Cairns and Coolangatta. The want to help nurture what will be a major educator barriers based on location are being broken of young Australians from the Sunshine Coast down. Under this Government, more people and the rest of our nation, as well as overseas. across this State can gain access to higher Although standard academic subjects may be education. This benefits Queenslanders and the the initial goal to meet student needs, we must Queensland economy, and ultimately means encourage a focus of specific academic more jobs. excellence and expertise that will help this The establishment of the Sunshine Coast university to stand out. University College is timely, considering that One area that interests me is the need for population projections for its catchment area human services and skilled personnel to cater for show that a higher education institution will our ageing population. To meet the challenging currently support 3 000 students, and 7 000 needs of an ageing Australia, I have a vision for students by the year 2011. With the the establishment of a chair in aged care. This establishment of new facilities such as the could provide a tremendous benefit to our coast Sunshine Coast University College comes a population and its range of needs in the allied commitment by the Queensland Government to health arena. These needs result from Legislative Assembly 7903 28 April 1994 demographic trends, evident throughout persistent lobbying. I acknowledge also the staff Australia and most developed nations, as who have provided QUT subjects on the humans live longer. Sunshine Coast for several years now. In As this university takes shape, with the addition, I thank the Minister's advisers, including opening date looming in 1996, it is not surprising Leigh Tabrett, who have maintained open that there are still some major questions to be communication on the development of this answered. For example, to help overcome legislation. I wish planning president Professor access problems both by car and public Paul Thomas and the planning council inspiration transport, I believe the Queensland Transport and success as they use their talents to lay the Department needs to assign immediately a building blocks for what I hope will become one responsible officer to bring this project's of this nation's great learning institutions. transport requirements to fruition on time. I know Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central) there has been a high turnover of staff members (12.31 p.m.): I rise to support the Sunshine in the Transport Department in the last four Coast University College Bill. Since the election years, but this continuity and commitment is of the Goss Government in 1989, I have been a essential. Undoubtedly, the matter of how State Government representative on the non-campus based students are going to get Queensland University of Technology Council. safely to and from this university at all hours is That council has spent a great deal of time one of the major concerns being expressed in discussing and considering the Sunshine Coast the community. The security of the students is University College, as provided for in this Bill. paramount. On the question of residential Higher education courses were first offered on accommodation—I believe there is merit in the Sunshine Coast in 1989 by the then asking for expressions of interest from private Brisbane College of Advanced Education out of enterprise, under strict criteria, to build and run temporary accommodation in Nambour. In 1990, on-site facilities. Maybe church and community when the QUT and the Brisbane College of organisations will catch a vision of this Advanced Education amalgamated, the QUT tremendous need and will also be involved in took over responsibility for the education service provision. These are matters which I courses and relocated their operations to the know are still under consideration. Sunshine Coast Community College of TAFE, The booming population of the Sunshine also at Nambour. Coast region—and, indeed, of south-east In 1993, the QUT and officers of the Queensland—means that this university cannot Department of Education and the Department of come soon enough. However, I am concerned Employment, Vocational Education, Training and that this enabling legislation imposes an Industrial Relations conducted a detailed unacceptably rigid and lengthy teething time of evaluation of options for the future of the 10 years on the new Sunshine Coast University. fledgling educational institution. State and Under this Act, the Sunshine Coast University is Commonwealth funds were made available as locked into a 10-year, no-review period of the follows: $3.5m by the State Government for a affiliation arrangements with the Queensland 100-hectare site as well as for site works and University of Technology. QUT is a fine services; $9.5m of Commonwealth funds for institution, but this decade of no review is stifling capital development in 1994 and 1995, plus $6m in view of the rapid population growth. With the promised for 1996 and $5m in 1997; and greatest respect, Brisbane-based Government $500,000 of Commonwealth funds in 1994 for demographers have always grossly the institution's operations, building up to $3m in underestimated population growth on the 1996, when the new institution will open for Sunshine Coast. teaching with 500 students. The title under this legislation calls this In November 1993, the Commonwealth and institution a "university college". In common with State Governments, together with the QUT, many Sunshine Coasters, I will drop the "college" agreed to create a university college on the site tag when referring to this facility. After all, fully under its own legislation to be affiliated with the fledged university degrees will be awarded to QUT. I want to deal with that matter, because students studying there. It would have been some concern has been expressed about it. In more appropriate for this university campus not my view, that concern is unfounded. This to have the additional tag of "college" so as to arrangement allows the new university college a distinguish its aims from that of a TAFE college. large degree of control of its own affairs while at Having placed those concerns on the the same time providing for the continued record, it is with great pleasure that I support this involvement of the QUT to satisfy—and I draw Bill. I wish to acknowledge the fine work of the this to the attention of the honourable member Sunshine Coast University Association and its for Caloundra, who has now left the Chamber, as 28 April 1994 7904 Legislative Assembly usual—the Commonwealth Government's Mr BEATTIE: I take the interjection by the funding requirements. That is the chief reason Minister. Again, that places the true position for that affiliated relationship. clearly on the record. Surely even the The university college will be established Opposition spokesman can understand that. from 1 July 1994. This Bill sets out the nature Perhaps if he reads Hansard tomorrow, he will and purpose of the new university college's have a clearer picture. affiliation relationship with the QUT, which in In the time that I have served on the QUT essence means that the QUT will assist the council, during which this matter has been university college to negotiate with the discussed at some length, the QUT has always Commonwealth Government its annual funding had a willingness to assist the new university agreement. When Commonwealth funds are college. However, its position has always been allocated, they will go into a trust fund for the that, at the appropriate time—and the QUT would university college. The QUT will also be prefer that to be sooner rather than later, involved—and again this was a matter that was because it has enough responsibilities of its overlooked by the honourable member for own—it would withdraw and let the university run Caloundra—in ensuring academic quality of its own accord. I make it absolutely clear that assurance by serving on the new university's there is no desire on the part of the QUT to play a governing body and assisting with the selection dominant role or an overinfluential role in this of senior academic staff. I would have thought university. Its position is quite to the contrary. that assisting the new university college in that The QUT is fulfilling an obligation for the manner is an important role to be played by a allocation of Commonwealth funds and an university with the wide experience of the QUT. academic obligation to assist in the selection of The Bill provides for that relationship to be staff. I believe that the QUT is playing a reviewed within 10 years. The QUT's responsible role. It is not seeking to have any involvement will lessen as the university college dominant influence over this university. If grows and develops. That period of 10 years has members opposite had sat through those been misrepresented by the member for discussions, as I have, they would understand Caloundra. It can be reviewed by agreement by clearly that the QUT is seeking to do the right all the parties within that 10-year period. There is thing. nothing—— Mr Quinn: Never doubted it. Mr Littleproud: What clause is that? Mr BEATTIE: I take that interjection from Mr BEATTIE: Has the honourable the member, who said that he never doubted it. member read the second-reading speech? The suggestions from the Deputy Leader of the Coalition were to the contrary. As a member of Mr Littleproud: What clause is it? the QUT council, I will not entertain any Mr BEATTIE: Has the member read the suggestion that the QUT wants to continue an second-reading speech? If members opposite involvement in this university beyond that which want to be half-baked idiots, that is easy; they do has been outlined in this legislation. so without any difficulty. The Sunshine Coast represents the largest Mr Quinn: Tell us what clause that is in. population in Australia not served by a local Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): higher educational facility. Indeed, there must be Order! The member for Merrimac shall cease a continuation of the State Government's interjecting. The proper time to discuss the strategy of supporting regional universities. The clauses is at the Committee stage. I call the Goss Government has committed over $37m member for Brisbane Central. towards campus facilities in the regional centres of Bundaberg, Gladstone, Mackay, Townsville Mr BEATTIE: As I was trying to explain to and Cairns. I join my colleague the honourable Opposition members—and all Government member for Currumbin and say that I am members know how hard that is—the 10-year delighted to see the establishment of regional period can be reviewed by agreement of all the universities such as this. My experience was parties. That provision is outlined in the second- similar to that of the member for Currumbin. I reading speech. The Minister has already grew up in Atherton in north Queensland. The interjected on the honourable Deputy Leader of closest university was Townsville. When I was a the Coalition to that effect. That position is on the kid, those who lived in Townsville were referred parliamentary record, and there is clearly no to as "southerners". We did not get as far as difficulty with it. Brisbane. We referred to "the southerners in Mr Comben: Once it becomes an Act, we Townsville". can amend the Act at any time. If we had Mr Comben: There was not a university in agreement, we would do it. Townsville when you were there. Legislative Assembly 7905 28 April 1994
Mr BEATTIE: I take the interjection by the Minister has indicated that he is aware of this, and Honourable the Minister, but I point out that I am I trust he will receive the support of Cabinet to not quite that old. When I attended the University ensure that those areas outside of Brisbane, in of Queensland, the James Cook University such a decentralised State, are not offered only one year of law. If one wanted to disadvantaged. study law seriously, one had to study in I understand that Queensland shares a Brisbane, which is 1 900 kilometres from higher education growth which is now Townsville. approaching the national participation on Mr Welford: So that's all you did. average and I would hope that this State, which Mr BEATTIE: I take that interjection simply leads the others in so many aspects, will also do to let the member get it on the record. Some did so in education. Australia as a whole has a long better at law school than others, but I will not way to go to catch up with many other countries. I pursue that point! was recently informed in America that 50 to 55 per cent of students go to university, whereas The point is that a desperate need exists for the figure in Australia and the United Kingdom is regional universities. Without them, kids who do between 20 and 25 per cent. Surely this figure not live in the major areas are seriously needs to be increased in this knowledge-hungry disadvantaged. I know that the Sunshine Coast world. is not a country area, but the fact remains that the basic thrust behind establishing regional The quest for a university on the Sunshine universities is very important. Coast goes back many years, and among those at the forefront would be people such as Alison I conclude by saying—— Kerr-Jones and Professor Mel McMichael and Mr Comben: Hear, hear! the patient, hardworking members of the Mr BEATTIE:—that I am delighted to see Sunshine Coast University Association. One that Professor Paul Thomas, who was the should not overlook the contribution of former Associate Dean of Education—— Premier Mike Ahern and his father John Ahern, who were also staunch supporters for a Mr Connor interjected. university on the Sunshine Coast. This Mr BEATTIE: I can assure my comrade association has been unflinching in its stated opposite that I receive more support from my ideal in gaining a university for the Sunshine side of the Chamber than he ever will. If there Coast which can operate in its own right. Under were a comparison of support, I would receive a this Act, I understand that they and others will 10 and the member opposite would receive have to be patient for a review of the university minus one—and that is after he speaks! college's status and its affiliation with the I am delighted that Professor Paul Queensland University of Technology as soon Thomas—who was the Associate Dean of as possible after ten years from the Education at QUT—is present today. As commencement of the Act. I would like to believe members are aware, Professor Thomas is the that this provision could be somewhat more planning president for this university. He is well flexible. I will be moving a minor amendment in regarded at the QUT, and he is a well-regarded the Committee stage with a view to effecting this. academic. I cannot think of a more appropriate Notwithstanding the wait for the person to be in charge of the planning for this commencement of a full university college for the university. coast, higher education courses were first Mr LAMING (Mooloolah) (12.39 p.m.): It offered on the Sunshine Coast by the then gives me great pleasure to rise to speak on the Brisbane College of Advanced Education in debate which will result in the establishment of 1989 and operated out of temporary premises in the Sunshine Coast University College. I listened Nambour, but now, following a decision with interest to the Minister's remarks during his announced in mid-1993 on Federal Government second-reading speech in which he mentioned funding, the university's future is assured. The that Commonwealth funding had failed to keep establishment, in fact, will be the first new pace with the State's population growth and that university in Queensland for 20 years. The Queensland institutions had been among the funding was initially an amount of $9.5m for lowest funded in the nation. I trust this is a capital development targeted for expenditure in situation which his Government will continue to 1994-95. I understand that an additional $6m has address with vigour, for nothing is more been promised by the Commonwealth for 1996 important to the future of our State than its and this will be followed by a further $5m in 1997. education. It is equally important to ensure that State Government funding for infrastructure an appropriate percentage of this funding is totalling $1.2m was also allocated and is already spent outside the metropolitan region. The being expended in the vicinity of the site. 28 April 1994 7906 Legislative Assembly
Early negotiations between the Federal Mooloolah River National Park. It is close to and a Government, the State Government and the part of the immediate catchment of the middle local committee have been ably conducted by reaches of the Mooloolah River and is also Professor Dennis Gibson, Vice-Chancellor of surrounded by areas which will remain rural and Queensland University of Technology, Ms Leigh others which will become urban. A new estate, Tabrett, Mr Bevan Pope and other officers of the the University Park Estate, is already under Office of Higher Education. These negotiations construction right next door. resulted in the decision being made that the new An obvious blight on this otherwise tranquil institution should be created as a university landscape is the fact that high tension lines college under its own legislation but to be traverse the university site. I have personal affiliated with Queensland University of concerns that this aspect should be addressed Technology. very early in the planning scheme and serious Much debate surrounded the decision on consideration given to either moving this where the proposed university would be easement to run along the eastern boundary of situated. As the catchment was to extend from the site or perhaps even underground. The Caboolture in the south to Gympie in the north considerable cost in putting them underground and west as far as Kilcoy, many sites were put could well be more than recouped in the forward. I do recall a tug-of-war between avoidance of the restriction this easement will proponents of a site at Coolum, one at Nambour place on future construction and activities on the and the eventually decided-upon site, a 100- site. Perhaps it is not too late, even now, to hectare property on part of Sippy Downs at consider some partial land exchange with Tanawha. Once the funding was secure and the contiguous landowners to overcome this site established, the Office of Higher Education problem. called for nominations for the Sunshine Coast Professor Paul Thomas has been providing University College Planning Committee. yeoman service for the infant university project Eventually, four applicants were selected: Fiona since he arrived on the coast in March and has, Campbell, Jill Morrison, Ian Kennedy and Lindsay for some time, conducted his activities from his Clare. This planning committee will continue its car. However, he is now set up at the important establishment work until the end of Queensland Industry and Development June this year. Corporation office building in Maroochydore. At about the same time it was necessary to Mr Comben: It was a big car. appoint a planning president, and it was my pleasure to join several other Sunshine Coast Mr LAMING: I take the interjection, it was a residents at a breakfast on the Sunshine Coast very big car. I was pleased to visit his office when to meet and welcome Professor Paul Thomas on the Treasurer, the Honourable Keith De Lacy, 9 March this year, and it is very pleasing to see visited there to open the QIDC office on 23 him here in the Chamber today. His address on March 1994. I spoke last week with Mrs Judy that morning was eagerly awaited and proved to Jakeman at the office, and she is eagerly awaiting be informative and very encouraging for those of the arrival of her office furniture this week. us who were present. I recall one of his main One of the most important tasks for the first points, which was that the vision for this council which takes over in July this year will be university must go beyond the State of the appointment of a vice-chancellor. I Queensland, even beyond Australia, and that it understand that this position has been must be completely international in outlook. He advertised worldwide. Perhaps this is the first described the role of the planners who were Sunshine Coast position that has ever been soon to be selected and pointed out that the advertised so widely. It is hoped to fill this persons would be given a set of five criteria. position within 18 months. The first university These criteria were to be: firstly, that they display council will remain in office until January 1996, a multi-disciplinary team approach; secondly, that which is the year that the university will they have recent, relevant experience; thirdly, commence operations. It is at this point that the there would be an overall assessment of their second council will commence its equally previous work; fourthly, that a sensitivity for the important work but, meanwhile, the official Sunshine Coast environment be displayed; and, appointment has been made of the site master fifthly, that they possess knowledge of university planner. The company is Mitchell Giurgolo and developments in other countries. Thorpe, Architects—MGT. I understand from a One of those criteria, that of a consideration news release that this firm also planned the of the environment, was very reassuring to me South Bank redevelopment in Brisbane and I am and many other residents of the Sunshine sure that the Sunshine Coast university project Coast. This is because the site is adjacent to the will be just as exciting for them. Legislative Assembly 7907 28 April 1994
Mr Comben: I think they have been experience in planning and universities, that the involved in 34 universities worldwide, they are coast's horticultural industry could also benefit by probably the best that you could find. specialist studies in this sector at our own Mr LAMING: I am told they are involved in university. However, it is in another completely 34 universities worldwide. That is very different area in which the Sunshine Coast encouraging. The master plan will be prepared University College may become particularly over the next four months and it will be famous. This is in the area of a sports and leisure developed in an appropriate way for a university faculty. The Sunshine Coast is in a perfect while still keeping the sensitive environmental position for a warm climate facility to rival the considerations in mind. The planners would be Australian Institute of Sport. I have already working very closely with local traders and time is convened discussions with Professor Paul of the essence to have the building built and Thomas and representatives of Sunshine Coast fitted out for commencement in 1996. General Sports Association Inc, the president, Ian staff appointments will be next and will McDonald, and the secretary, Bob Nolan. A commence in 1995. second tartan track is desperately wanted in Queensland, particularly in light of Sydney's An interesting task which lies ahead is the successful bid for the Olympic Games in the year decision of what to name the university. I believe 2000. If a satisfactory arrangement could be there were about 50 suggestions put forward to secured between the university's planning the planning committee. It was their preference committee, the Sunshine Coast Sports to use a name of Aboriginal origin. The local Association, the Department of Tourism, Sport Gubbi Gubbi were not keen to have their tribal and Racing and private fund sources, such a name used, nor that the Anglicised version, Kabi proposal could become a reality. I hope the Kabi, be selected. One beautiful but rather proposal does proceed further. difficult name, Nutawaliu, which means to teach, was considered, but has obvious shortcomings. This university will only be in its infancy at Perhaps further discussions with the Gubbi the turn of the century, and it will have to take Gubbi might come up with something, but I into account not only the changes in technology, would hope that not too much time elapses if a work, social and study patterns in the recent name other than Sunshine Coast University past, but attempt to anticipate those that will College is considered. occur in the future. It is likely that many students of the future will be conducting much more of In 1996, the university will commence with their studies by computer from home. It is for that 400 students and it is anticipated to reach 2 000 reason that we must visualise this institution as a by the year 2001. I would like to think that the facility for higher education and not just a group Minister would consider future State of buildings. Government student load funding. This would be for those disciplines as considered necessary The role of the Sunshine Coast University and appropriate by the State Government. It had Association may appear to many to be over now, been suggested by some that the university but I do not believe that this is the case. It will would be a quasi TAFE facility. I am pleased that have a very important role to play in making sure this will not be occurring and, although it will that the viewpoints of Sunshine Coast residents collaborate closely with the nearby TAFE facilities are fully woven into the fabric of the new which have a valuable teaching role, the university's culture. Fundraising for special items distinctive role of a university is quite different. at the university will be most important to ensure Even associate degrees, I believe, have been that the university is driven and funded by the considered inappropriate, for to ensure the community it represents. attraction of qualified staff, the university must While on the subject of funds—there is no provide its own fully fledged degrees. doubt that the university will prove to be of great Business will be one of the main faculties of economic benefit to Queensland in general and the university, and there may only be two or the Sunshine Coast in particular. I am reliably three faculties in the earlier days to ensure that informed that each student coming from the university resources are not too thinly overseas, for example, is worth about $25,000 spread. It is hoped by many on the coast that the per annum to the community. university will work closely with business and I had the opportunity last week to inspect industry, and I believe that industrialists and the infrastructure work that is now under way. I academics should work closely together. Could it was pleased to see that the engineers, Rod Tate even be considered that a high-tech industrial and Partners, are being very careful to ensure park could be included nearby? that the sewer line to service the area does not It has also been suggested by Mr Jim Birrell, compromise the Mooloolah River National Park, a local resident who has had considerable which it passes by very closely. Access to the 28 April 1994 7908 Legislative Assembly site will be of critical importance, and I am Third Age is also very strong on the Sunshine anticipating that discussions this week between Coast and is eagerly seeking a home. Could the Mayor of Maroochy Shire, Councillor Bob Sippy Downs be the site of what might be the King, and Professor Paul Thomas will result in first educational facility in Australia, to my agreement being reached as to the upgrading of knowledge, that caters for every age group? the Mountain Creek road. What an exciting prospect! Another interesting aspect is that the site for As well as education facilities, there are the university is just west of the Mountain Creek many others to be considered. A police station toll plaza. At this stage there is no other practical should be planned for, and an effective local access to the university from the central transport system which is already desperately Sunshine Coast area. I would like to put on needed will be absolutely essential before the notice that I will be contacting the Minister for university gets under way. Transport to see whether a plaza by-pass road Mr Nuttall: A railway line, a police station might be considered or whether a student and and a new school. staff pass system might be an alternative. Mr LAMING: I take that interjection from Mr Nuttall: Do you want a toll on that? the member for Sandgate. I am a very Mr LAMING: We have already got a toll, enthusiastic member, and I like to represent my thank you very much. To expect staff and constituents to the best of my ability. The students to have to pay a 70c toll at least twice a member for Sandgate spends an awful lot of time day every day when there is no practical in my electorate. I assure him that he is very alternative route would seem to me to be most welcome, too. onerous and unfair. I would like to take this opportunity to I also had the opportunity on the same day commend and thank all those individuals, to inspect a possible route for a rail link from organisations and levels of government that Landsborough Railway Station through mainly have cooperated in the establishment of this forestry country which could create a very viable facility, and on this particular occasion the rail link servicing the central Sunshine Coast in Minister himself. On behalf of the people of the general and the university in particular. I will be Sunshine Coast, I add my support to the taking this matter up with Queensland Transport passage of this Bill through the House. and others in the near future. Sitting suspended from 12.58 to 2.30 p.m. There are many aspects to be considered in Mr NUTTALL (Sandgate) (2.30 p.m.): The the development not just of this, the Sunshine Sunshine Coast University College, soon to be Coast University College, but the establishment erected up near Sippy Downs on the Sunshine of what amounts to virtually a new suburb on the Coast, is one of those structures that really Sunshine Coast. Although we in Queensland brings the birth of the Sunshine Coast to the are excited about our growth, particularly in areas fore. In the past, the Sunshine Coast has always such as the Sunshine Coast, growth brings with been seen as the poor cousin of the Gold Coast. it many problems and responsibilities that must Over the years, the Sunshine Coast has be met along with the benefits. With the growth developed its own uniqueness and its own that will be occurring in and around the university beauty. The new university will only enhance its site, I ask the Minister to give consideration to the reputation. requirement for, firstly, a new primary school on As someone who was a resident on the the southern slopes of Buderim and, ultimately, Sunshine Coast for seven years or so, I think that another high school in the area. it is an educational facility that obviously is Mr Nuttall: How many schools do you extremely long overdue. It is a major boost to want? education on the Sunshine Coast. It shows a Mr LAMING: Obviously, we want enough strong commitment from this Government to schools to service our fast-growing community. education on the Sunshine Coast and to the growth in the population up there. I went to the Mr Comben: When are you going to trouble of digging out some statistics in relation mention the new Mountain Creek Primary to money spent on schools on the Sunshine School? Coast. With the growth in population, we need Mr LAMING: I am just about to come to the more schools. In the long term, those schools will Mountain Creek Primary School. Despite the be a feeder to the new university. recent opening of the very attractive Mountain We have often heard from the five members Creek Primary School under the care of Mr of this House who represent the electorates on Randall Burow, the need already exists for yet the Sunshine Coast. All of those members are another primary school. The University of the members of the Opposition. For a long period Legislative Assembly 7909 28 April 1994 they have engaged in a campaign regarding the of those ancillary things that go with the building toll roads on the Sunshine Coast. However, their of a new university. silence is quite deafening when it comes to the I believe that this university college is a great amount of money spent by this Government on asset for the Sunshine Coast. It something of education in that area. Mention was made earlier which the people of the Sunshine Coast can be in a speech in this debate regarding the very proud. I am sure that it is an institution that in Mountain Creek Primary School. That is a new the future will stand high in terms of its facility. In the past few years, a new school has educational facilities and record. I am pleased to been built in the Pacific Paradise area. There is a say that, most importantly, the young people on proposal for a new high school at Mountain the Sunshine Coast will no longer have to come Creek. If we consider the money spent on works to Brisbane for their tertiary education. They will in the last couple of years in the Sunshine Coast be able to use that facility and it will be of great area, we see that in excess of $2.5m has been benefit to them. I am sure that it will enhance the spent on school buildings and school facilities. Sunshine Coast area. I congratulate the Minister That is a reflection of the growth in the area, but, for Education on introducing the Bill. importantly, it shows the commitment of this Government to education. Most importantly, it Mr LITTLEPROUD (Western Downs) shows that this Government does not hold any (2.36 p.m.): I am pleased to join with other bias when it comes to spending money in members in the House today to support this electorates that are not held by the Labor Party. legislation. It had its genesis back in 1988-89 when big movements in tertiary education in The other matter that should be brought to Queensland were brought on by John Dawkins mind is that it is not only money spent on the who was bringing to an end the binary system of schools in the area. As I said earlier, those tertiary education across Australia. That move schools will be feeders to the new university. forced all sorts of changes across all the States. Before the luncheon adjournment, the member At the time, I was closely associated with the for Mooloolah brought out his wish list and he sorts of things that should happen in said that new schools were needed. We have Queensland, and I will explain what should indicated that those new schools have been happen. forthcoming on the Sunshine Coast. He mentioned the need for a new police station. A Mr Dawkins only wanted to have universities new police station was recently built at Kawana and not colleges of advanced education. That Waters. That basic infrastructure is now being forced Queensland to think about legislation to provided. amalgamate those colleges into the various universities that existed. The master plan that One would hope and sincerely believe that was brought out at that time by the forum of vice- the five members who represent the electorates chancellors and directors in Queensland was to on the Sunshine Coast would not run around to realise the needs of south-east Queensland and their local press and claim all the accolades for to establish what was here already. We had the the new university that is to be built there. If we University of Queensland, the Griffith University look at the representation from the Sunshine and the QUT. It was decided that those three Coast, we see that most of the members up should share in the future growth pattern of there have held their seats for a relatively short delivery of tertiary education in south-east time. This proposal has been on the drawing Queensland. The western access was to be the board for some time. As I said earlier, the field of endeavour of the University of members on the Sunshine Coast have an Queensland. It has extended to the Gatton obligation and a duty through their local media to College campus and probably something will be give credit to this Government for its vision and done at Ipswich in the future. the work that it has done in relation to education on the Sunshine Coast. The Griffith University expanded down to the Gold Coast. It took over, I think, the Mount As the member for Mooloolah said earlier, I Gravatt College of Advanced Education plus the spend a fair bit of time on the Sunshine Coast. I Gold Coast College of Advanced Education. It know a large number of business people up was determined that the newly formed QUT there as well as people in community should bear its influence in the northern suburbs organisations, and they certainly welcome the of Brisbane. As was mentioned by the member announcement of the decision to build a new for Brisbane Central, Nambour was already an university in the region. There will be major annex of the North Brisbane College of changes to infrastructure on the Sunshine Coast Advanced Education. That was when the in terms of new housing developments, new planning began. shops, the provision of transport facilities and all I think that we owe Dr Botsman and those vice-chancellors and directors of those colleges 28 April 1994 7910 Legislative Assembly at that time a great deal of credit. Those people "university". That rankled Dr Barker and some were not only looking after their own institutions other people for a little while, because they but also thinking about the development and thought that that was impinging upon their right delivery of tertiary education right across to automatically become a university. Queensland for many years to come. This Nevertheless, it was forced upon them. We said, legislation results from that. I note how the "For a time, you are going to be a college and be Minister has followed on from that advice. I am under the tutorship of the university." I am pleased to play a part in this debate today. There pleased to see that the Minister is virtually using are some other matters that I will mention. the same system in this legislation whereby the After we had decided upon the college will graduate. It will be under the amalgamations of all the colleges and created the stewardship of the QUT and, when the university field of endeavour for the various areas of college is judged to be good enough, most influence or the various universities, it was pretty probably by a committee of academics from soon decided as a result of pressure coming various universities throughout Australia, it will from the people in the Sunshine Coast area that receive its full spurs. they had a demand for some type of tertiary In the meantime, as has been referred to by education delivery. Under Dr Peter Botsman, we the member for Brisbane Central, administrative called for submissions from people for sites that arrangements have been made along the lines of might be chosen for tertiary education on the those that were made with the university Sunshine Coast. I can remember consulting colleges in Toowoomba and central engineers producing a study of the various sites Queensland. They seem to work pretty well. I being proposed by the local authority areas. One was pleased to note that the member was talking of those was Sippy Downs, the site which was on behalf of the university council in saying that finally acquired and which is now being there was no desire to have a claim of ownership, developed. It was interesting to hear the member or an influence, it was just a matter of playing a for Mooloolah discussing the need for part in the overall development of the delivery of infrastructure to ensure that we service the area tertiary education throughout Queensland. In properly. In a fast-growing area such as the fact, from time to time, I imagine it is a bit of a pain Sunshine Coast, it was important to acquire a in the neck. I knew that was the case with piece of land that would best service the people representatives from the University of who were there and the growth that was to Queensland, who were travelling to the Darling follow. Downs to carry out various assessments and to After that, Sir Clem Renouf headed a local give guidance. It must have impacted upon their committee. I do not know his role in that time, and they could have used their time to help committee at present, but that committee was develop further the campus at Gatton or their working towards having an annex of QUT in the own campus at Saint Lucia. Nevertheless, it is area. That long-term plan is now becoming a important that the word "college" is contained in reality through legislation that will create the this legislation, because that is part of the university college. It is worth talking about why evolutionary process. I believe that, when the the word "college" should be in the title. At that university comes into its own, the Minister will time, the Institute of Advanced Education at amend this legislation to drop the word "college" Toowoomba and also the College of Advanced off the title. We also have to be careful that we do Education at Rockhampton were both aspiring to not ever discredit the term "university". It is not a become universities in their own right. The title that a Government can hand out; it has to be Statewide planning was that they would earned. eventually become universities. The director of Another issue that arose during the time the Darlings Downs institute, Dr Lindsay Barker, about which I speak is: what makes a university? was a pretty forthright chap. He wanted to take That issue is still being considered now. on very quickly all the benefits that the word Members of this House may remember that there "university" provides. was a group in the southern suburbs of Brisbane The advice that I was given was that, if I who desperately wanted to create a Queensland hastened too quickly and allowed the institute to Christian university. I had some sympathy with use the word "university" in its title before it was their cause, but when we came to discuss with ready, the term "university" would be them very carefully what they wanted, we discredited. It is not a title that can be bestowed realised that some of the things that they wanted on an institute by a Government, it must be to put in place and demanded to be part and earned through recognition by the institute's parcel of their university were not acceptable to peers and other academics. So we decided that other people who were associated with the word "college" should be used with the word universities in Queensland. I can remember Dr Peter Botsman working long and hard to try to Legislative Assembly 7911 28 April 1994 come up with a set of criteria that people had to Mr Beattie: Were you an Education meet before they could create a university. At Minister at one stage? that time, the proposed Christian university did Mr LITTLEPROUD: I was for a couple of not make the grade. The proposition lapsed. years. I had great respect for my predecessor, Nevertheless, we put in place a set of guidelines Lin Powell, and the people who preceded him. I that people should go through if they are going just want to put the record straight. Firstly, the to start developing a new university. It was James Cook University was established prior to interesting to note that not long after that, the 1989—back in those dark 30 years to which Federal Department of Education came up with a Government members refer. The colleges of set of criteria that had to be met in order to advance education in Rockhampton, Gold Coast develop a university in Australia. There was a and Toowoomba were established in that time. great similarity between the Federal Then annexes of universities or colleges of Government's set of criteria and the criteria that advanced education were created in places such had been developed by Dr Botsman. I remember as Nambour, Bundaberg, Gladstone, Mackay and that, at the time we released our set of criteria in Cairns—all established before 1989. True, there Queensland, John Dawkins criticised it but, in have been some developments and, in the case fact, ended up seeing the merit in what we did. of Bundaberg, a new site has been chosen, but They are criteria that this Minister and his advisers those establishments to which I have referred are probably still using today. were up and running during that time. If people We realised that an established university were to read Hansard and the comments of the has to be the mentor for a new university. A place member of Bundaberg, they would not has to earn its respect. It has to go out there and acknowledge that that was the case. start doing research. It should not be only a Then in 1988, we had the Sherrin report. teaching place but also undertake research on its That report looked at Queensland's real problem own. That is not an easy thing to do. However, in not having enough tertiary places. after a gradual maturing process, a university will Queensland was being short-changed by the finally reach that status. Of course, the Federal Government. The Sherrin committee Government's role is to provide the legislation came up with all sorts of data with which we could and provide the land for a new university. The argue our case. Mr Bevan Pappas was Government acquired that land at Sippy Downs a instrumental in putting together our case to long time ago and it is pleasing to note that, argue with Mr Dawkins. However, the Sherrin within five years, that university will become a committee also came up with the proposal of the reality. open-learning centres, which entailed using The member for Brisbane Central made the telecommunications to deliver tertiary education point in his speech that if we rush the process of to people off campus. I think the dream was to turning a university college into a university, we develop over 40 centres within a couple of years. run the risk of not receiving funding from the The Education Department has not been able to Federal Government. Back in those days when do that. It is a great service, but let me set the we were developing the universities at record straight and say that it was an initiative that Toowoomba and central Queensland, we had to was developed from the Sherrin report in 1988. It meet the criteria that were set down by the is serving Queensland well. However, I give Federal Government in order to receive funding. credit where credit is due. Eventually, the Federal Government seemed to I also acknowledge that the Goss Labor be quite willing to accept the processes that Government introduced State-funded places in were put in place, and I am sure that the same university. However, it was not the first process that is being put in place now will ensure Government to do so. The previous National that Federal Government funding is received. Party Government also did that in the Budget of Earlier in this debate, the member for 1988. It created 1 000. It was a pity that we had to Currumbin made some comments from which do it, but such was the case with the way in which one would guess that the only real expansion in funding was handed out by the Federal the delivery of tertiary education outside Government, we had to meet the demand. Since Brisbane has occurred since 1990. In fact, at then, to its credit, the Goss Government has other times in this House I have heard the done that. But let us give credit where credit is member for Bundaberg make contributions and due. lay claims to some wonderful things that this Finally, I want to concentrate on the people Government has done. For the sake of history, I of the Sunshine Coast. There was discussion in place on record my recollections of some the House earlier on about one clause saying developments in tertiary education in that not before 10 years can there be a review by Queensland over the years. the Minister to turn the university college into a 28 April 1994 7912 Legislative Assembly university. Quite correctly, it has been pointed Mr DAVIDSON (Noosa) (2.51 p.m.): I am out that, under the Acts Interpretation Act, if a pleased to rise today to speak in support of the statement is made in a Minister's second-reading Sunshine Coast University College. The speech, it can be deemed to be part and parcel Sunshine Coast University Association and many of the Government's policy. It has been stated community organisations, community groups that the Minister said, "Yes, subject to the and citizens have been involved for many agreement of all parties, there can be a review." years—— My mind goes back to the time when we were Mr Nuttall: You wanted to move it. evolving those two regional universities in Mr DAVIDSON: I did try to have it moved Queensland. We came up with the process by to Noosa. It was always worth a try. Citizens have which to make it happen. We also worked out the been involved for many years in promoting the timetable. I made an announcement that, within need for this university college on the Sunshine three years, we would put legislation in place to Coast. There has been much debate on the create the University of Central siting and location of this facility. Numerous Queensland—from what had previously been meetings have been held over many years. For the university college—and similarly with all of those people who have given up their time Toowoomba. At that time, John Dawkins jumped and expertise, there is a real sense of on board. He thought that he was the only bloke achievement to see this university college running education in Australia. He chastised me become a reality. at the opening of the Gold Coast College of Advanced Education and said that they should I have always been of the opinion that the Sippy Downs location will prove accessible to all never become universities. I responded suitably people, as it is centrally located in the catchment by saying that we will not decide whether they area. But it is imperative that we ensure that are going to be universities; that will be decided public transport infrastructure is a top priority and by academics. However, we will create the that funding is made available to meet the process for them so long as they meet the transport requirements of Sunshine Coast standards. people in the catchment. The member for Rockhampton, Mr Braddy, At the moment, most public transport is pushed very hard for his own clientele. He focused on the coastal strip and not on the wanted it to become a university the very next Bruce Highway. We must ensure that there is an day. There was a bit of a difference of opinion. I efficient rail link, because the catchment area has can understand why Mr Braddy was pushing so a reasonable rail service. I have met with planning hard. However, he did not understand the real president Professor Paul Thomas, and I was difficulties. Two Labor politicians attacked me: most impressed with his attitudes and awareness one for not doing it quickly enough, and one for of the tasks that are at hand in ensuring that this even daring to do it at all. We stuck to our guns. facility caters for the needs of students on the The process worked then, so it can work now. Sunshine Coast. Now that Professor Thomas For those people on the Sunshine has taken up residence and has established an Coast—and local members have been talking office in Maroochydore, I look forward to working about this—— with him in the future. I suggested to Professor Thomas just this week that, when time permits, I Mr Comben: Let me assure you that will be keen to visit the high schools in my Education Ministers of any party always suffer the electorate to explain to all students the same way as you and I. opportunities that this university college will Mr LITTLEPROUD: Has the Minister create for them. I am sure Professor Thomas will noticed that? I never knew he cared about me. receive the support of all the people on the Mr Beattie: He doesn't. Sunshine Coast in the planning and construction stages of this facility. It is important that we Mr LITTLEPROUD: He cares about communicate with and facilitate for all people to himself. From listening to members who have ensure that we get the support of the people to spoken today, it is obvious that this Bill means a make sure Professor Thomas' tasks are great deal to them. It is a challenge. It is an appreciated and that he gets all the help he opportunity. Such processes have been put in needs. place elsewhere and they have worked. The Minister is putting in place the legislation to set With the highest growth in the State in this up the machinery. In the future, it will be up to the area, for too long many of our young adults have people at the QUT and on the council on the to leave the family unit and travel hundreds of Sunshine Coast to make it work. I wish them well. kilometres from home for tertiary education. This creates many difficulties, the foremost being the financial burden on some families who simply do Legislative Assembly 7913 28 April 1994 not have the ability to fund a child living in Sheldon and myself were involved in the early another town or city. When this university college stages. We had joint meetings. It had total opens in less than two years, hopefully it will give support from every party. Liberal Party, National opportunities to those who may have missed out Party and Labor Party members all supported it. in the past. I am sure that many of the courses We had meetings with the shire council. We had that complement the career needs of our area will meetings also with the QUT. I make the point that be catered for. we have not played politics. I have never This university college will bring enormous knocked the Government at all over education benefits to the Sunshine Coast. In the planning spending. I have always believed that the and construction period, many real jobs will be education of our young people—who after all are created. When opened, the social and economic our nation's greatest assets—should be above benefits to the Sunshine Coast will be politics. I have no disagreement about what is enormous. This university college will be a giant happening in the north coast region. step forward for the Sunshine Coast. The As the member for Noosa said, the spin-off to the local economy and the social university will be of immeasurable benefit in so benefits to all people will ensure that the many ways when it commences. Its construction Sunshine Coast enters into a new era. will lead to employment. There will be growth in Until now, we have been a sun, surfing, housing and other spin-off benefits. I was shown fishing and business community, but soon we a draft of the Bill. I submitted it to different people will be able to provide real help and opportunities involved in education and to other concerned for those of our youth who have a desire to people. I received no adverse comments from achieve their highest goals in life through higher them. education. We will have 400 places available I will mention a matter that was raised when the university college opens in 1996. previously. It is something about which the While the Minister's Government cannot claim all Minister is well aware. I would ask him to address of the credit for the establishment of this this in his reply. There was a concern in the early university college, I appreciate the fact that his days that the Maroochy Shire Council could be Government is committed to the Sunshine Coast left carrying the can in relation to the cost of University College. On behalf of all infrastructure, including roads, sewerage and Queenslanders who will benefit from this facility, I water. I believe that will not be so. I would like an thank him. In conclusion, I ask that, as Minister for assurance from the Minister that the council Education, he ensures that the ongoing responsible for the Sippy Downs area in which essential funding is provided for in State the university will be located will not have to bear Budgets in future years. any cost burden. Hon. N. J. TURNER (Nicklin) (2.55 p.m.): I do not wish to hold up the time of the The Sunshine Coast area would have to be one House. I take the opportunity to congratulate of the greatest growth regions in Queensland, if everyone involved with the establishment of the not Australia. There is obviously a tremendous university. It will be of tremendous benefit to the need for a university to cater for that part of the area. State of Queensland. We tried to submit that the Hon P. COMBEN (Kedron—Minister for university go to Nambour. I felt that we had a Education) (3 p.m.), in reply: I thank all reasonable case, because of the road and rail honourable members for their very supportive facilities and the infrastructure currently available. contributions. Today is one of those wonderful However, Sippy Downs won. That is the way it is. days when we in this place can look forward and The legislation before the House is basically say genuinely that we have been part of history. common, or uniform, legislation for the setting up The commencement of a new university is a very of the university. I take the opportunity to unusual occurrence anywhere in Australia. commend and congratulate everyone involved in Under the Dawkins plan, there are no plans for bringing this project to fruition. I would like to new universities. We have decided on a make special mention— and I could not mention child/parent relationship for this particular everyone—of Allison Kerr-Jones and the role institution as a way of starting something without that she has played. A number of people have saying to the Commonwealth, "This is going to worked very hard, including the Maroochy Shire be a new university in the future." It may be the Council and former Shire Chairman, Fred Murray. only university that is commenced in Australia The member for Sandgate said that the five over the next 20 years. Opposition members on the north coast were I am reminded of that marvellous story from playing politics. I assure him that no politics have 1917, when the University of Queensland was been played with this project, certainly not by me first mooted and commenced. At that time, a or anyone else. Ray Barber, Jon Sullivan, Joan name for the university was being selected. The 28 April 1994 7914 Legislative Assembly name that was decided on was the University of to restrict the university college. It is there for its Queensland, because it was thought that there benefit. When the amendment relating to that would never be another university in this matter is proposed at the Committee stage—and State—it would not expand sufficiently. That was I will not speak at length to it—I ask that members the height of put-down from those who selected take that factor into account. that name. This legislation will see the I turn to the contribution by the member for commencement of a university that will expand, Mulgrave. He gave a very succinct resume of just as the Sunshine Coast and this great State what can be achieved in a certain local area as a are expanding. It is appropriate that all parties direct result of a university being located in that have supported this legislation. area. As we look to State planning and regional I turn to the contributions of individual development, obviously an institution such as members. I thank the member for Merrimac, my this has a major role to play in the development of opposite number, for the support and the a particular region. I thank the honourable interest that he has shown in this project. I will member for his contribution. refer now to the 10-year period provided for in As to the Deputy Leader of the the legislation, because it has been mentioned Coalition—once again, she was supportive of by a number of members. We must be conscious this legislation. The issue of the powerlines was of the fact that initially this will be a very small raised for the first time. That issue has only institution. There will be 400 equivalent full-time recently been raised with me. We have no student units enrolled at the university college at answer to it at this moment. We have to find out the beginning of 1996. If the university college the details of the challenge in that regard. There grows at the rate that the Commonwealth has appears to be some difficulty with powerlines. indicated it should, even at the end of 10 years it Those concerns had never been raised with me will have only 3 500 places, which is a very small previously, but we will examine the problem and institution. The 10-year tie is necessary, because see what can be done. Initially, there may have to over that period the university college will need be a compromise. I have asked the interim QUT. The university college is not big enough to council and Professor Gibson at the Queensland stand on its own feet in terms of student University of Technology to provide me with numbers. It is my hope that increased student more information so that we are able to make a places will be granted to the university college. I decision on that matter. will certainly be doing everything I can in lobbying the Federal Government to make those extra The Deputy Leader of the Coalition also places available. I hope that members opposite raised the possibility of having a tourism faculty will do the same. I believe that such a link to QUT located at the university college. I point out to is necessary. honourable members that Mrs Sheldon suggested a tourism faculty; Miss Simpson No-one should be naive about how difficult suggested a chair in aged care; and Mr Laming it will be for the university college to attract suggested a sports and leisure faculty. If we genuinely world-class lecturing and professorial incorporate all of those faculties, this university staff over the next few years. We are talking college will be fairly large right from the start, about a small institution. It does have a lot of because we have not even begun to consider positive features. It is located in a very attractive the usual faculties! and peaceful part of the world. It will be new; it will be dynamic; and it will be innovative. Those If we can move to police stations and railway features will attract quality staff. However, at the stations, I suppose that I am supporting Mr end of the day, if someone is looking for a career Laming's world view of this university. It will be change and they consider the University of some time before we see such a width of Queensland, with its population of approximately faculties, but certainly that is a matter for the full 22 000 students, and compare it with a fairly council of the Queensland University of small, new institution on the Sunshine Coast, Technology to decide. I am sure that it will seek one can guess where the top-quality staff will go. the best available options in the first years and That does not mean that the university college work towards many of the faculties suggested by will not be able to attract staff. However, the honourable members. Certainly, if the affiliation agreement refers to staff being able to appropriate links were in place and there could work at QUT and work with the postgraduate be cohesion between local people and local students there. I believe that that will enhance sports associations, the sports and leisure faculty the attractiveness to lecturing staff of the would work very well and would be totally in line university college. with the present Federal Government's policies on cooperation. For example, the churches have The 10-year tie is an attempt to support and now combined with Griffith University under an nurture the university college. It is not intended informal arrangement. As part of the School of Legislative Assembly 7915 28 April 1994
Humanities, there is now a School of Theology. moment, but I thank the member for Mooloolah A sports and leisure faculty could be for the kind remarks that he made about a very incorporated into the university college with no capable administrator. difficulty. We need to investigate such As to the student load funding from the possibilities. I look forward to seeing what can be State—I remind the member that it is a Federal achieved in that regard. Government responsibility. We will do what we Mrs Rose, the member for Currumbin, can to find extra money—we should all be doing contributed substantially to this debate. She that. Whether extra money is available is a matter spoke of the benefits of Griffith University and that must be considered from Budget to Budget. the benefits flowing from a university in general. As to the name of the university—the I acknowledge that Miss Simpson's father Sunshine Coast University College is a title that I was one of those who agitated for a university on selected at the time that the Bill went to Cabinet. the Sunshine Coast for a long time. As I have It is a holding name. If the council wants to already mentioned history, we should remember change that name to a name that is appropriate to that for a long time—not just over the last five the local community, I am totally supportive of years—many people have sought some form of such a move. I think that there are many very higher education institution on the Sunshine charming and historic names which can be Coast. That has now been achieved, and it is brought to mind. Again, it is a matter for the local appropriate that all of those people are community to work out their own destiny in the remembered. future. The member for Brisbane Central is a I thank Mr Nuttall for his support for the distinguished member of the Queensland Sunshine Coast. Actually, one would have University of Technology Council. I was quite thought that he was the member for the interested to hear that he had done only one Sunshine Coast. He delivered a good speech. year of law. When I attended his admission as a Mr Littleproud, a former Minister for Education, solicitor some years ago, I do not recall that being and myself have shared the challenges of this mentioned. I think it was said that he had done portfolio. I do not think times have changed. four years plus some post-graduate work at the Education is one of those spheres where the university. Government will never be able to satisfy Mr FitzGerald: He said he had done time. everyone. I was going to say that it was a sphere You had better be careful. where the Government could never satisfy Mr COMBEN: Yes, I think he might have anyone—many people can be satisfied by this done. As Mr Beattie was my best man and I am a Bill, but when there are 500 000 students out godparent to his children, I think it is appropriate there and a university population in this State of that I move on. almost 50 000 students, then obviously there will be many conflicting demands, requests and Mr Laming made an excellent speech about expectations. Mr Littleproud highlighted all of his local constituency. One of the benefits of this those. I thank Mr Davidson again for his support. place is that, whatever topic is under debate, a local member will always have first-hand I thank Mr Turner for not playing politics. It knowledge of it—whether it be a mine, a seems that over most of what he raised, he has university, a school or a police station. Mr Laming no argument with me. It is my understanding that demonstrated well his knowledge of the area. He the Maroochy Shire Council will be having outlined the history of the university college and discussions with the State Government about mentioned its closeness to Cooloola. the provision of roads, but some of the earlier matters concerning sewerage and drainage have I was fascinated that the member should been resolved now. The sewerage is about refer to our mutual friend Professor Paul Thomas halfway to the site—halfway from where I am not as a yeoman. As an Englishman, I thought that a quite sure—but I think that the joint agreement yeoman was someone who years ago was a which we will have with the local developer there, gentleman but these days worked on the land. I as the honourable member would know better understood the member to say that Professor than me, will resolve most of those problems, Thomas has been working for Ms Kerr-Jones. and I do not understand there to be any large Over the luncheon break, I asked Professor outstanding problems. Thomas whether he was still working for Ms Kerr- Jones, and he said that he is not; he is now at the In conclusion, can I say again that it is an office. Professor Thomas said further that historic day. However, we now look to the future; standing in the middle of a green field talking to we look to the commencement of building as himself for the last two months had been a bit soon as possible. The site planners have been rough. I will return to Professor Thomas in a selected and are looking for a place on a regular 28 April 1994 7916 Legislative Assembly basis. It will be interesting to see the plans that come out from there. It will be an exciting time. Committee With my Cabinet colleagues, I will need to select a full council before the full council comes into Hon. P. Comben (Kedron—Minister for being on 1 July. I extend an invitation to Education) in charge of the Bill. honourable members in this Chamber from any Clauses 1 to 85, as read, agreed to. party to suggest to me the names of people they Clause 86— believe should serve on that first council. I will willingly accept those suggestions and place Mr LAMING (3.16 p.m.): I move— them on a list. "At page 39, line 21, '10 years'— Obviously, at the right time, we will also be omit, insert— seeking appropriate people who may be '5 years'." interested in being the chancellor of the new I do not need to speak at length to this university. If any members know of people who amendment. Clause 86 states— they think are appropriate, I ask them to let me know. The Cabinet will certainly take those "The Minister must review the suggestions into account in the selection College's status and affiliation arrangements process. It will be an interesting time ahead. as soon as possible after 10 years from the commencement of this Act." Finally, in my second-reading speech I thanked a number of people. I forgot to thank I think there was some confusion in the House one person from the department who has done a this morning. It is quite clear from my reading of lot of work on the actual drafting of this Bill. I refer the Bill that, as it stands at the moment, there can to Mr Rowan Hindley. I thank him for the work that be no review this side of a 10-year period. Clause he has done. I also thank Leigh Tabrett and 86 clearly states that. The Sunshine Coast is an Bevan Pope of the Office of Higher Education. area of rapid growth, and the university will This is one of those times when the Queensland develop very quickly. It is for this reason that I Public Service can look around and say, "A job think that this should be looked at. I believe that well done; a great step forward." my amendment does not overthrow the reason that clause 86 is there; it merely shortens the Finally, I thank Professor Paul Thomas, the time frame. I have spoken to various people planning president of the Sunshine Coast about the reason for the period, and I University College, previously the Associate understand that. There is no question that the Dean of Education at the Queensland University Sunshine Coast University College will require of Technology. Professor Thomas is present in that period of patronage from the QUT. That is the gallery today. I thank him for the work that he not only understood, it is welcomed because, has put in. It might have been a bit tough for him, without that, the university on the Sunshine sitting here for seven hours yesterday afternoon Coast would not be able to get off the ground at waiting for this Bill to be debated. He eventually all. We will not only need it, we will welcome it, went home at 1.30 a.m. and we have already felt the benefits. Mr Beattie: It was worth waiting for, Mr Comben: Did you say five to ten years? though. Mr LAMING: No, whatever the period is, it Mr COMBEN: I am not sure that it was will be necessary. It is certainly welcomed by the worth waiting for last night when he went home at people on the Sunshine Coast. The people to 1.30 a.m. He has recently moved from Bardon to whom I spoke said that it could be reviewed. If, the north coast, but last night he went back to his five years down the track, those at the university empty house to sleep in a tracksuit with no bed and the QUT felt that it was time that the college clothes. on the coast could proceed under its own steam, Mr Beattie: We will need a violin shortly. those people felt that it could be amended. Mr COMBEN: He fronted here again this However, I feel that it might be very difficult to get morning. I thank him for the courtesy and the the legislation back into the House for that great humour that he has brought to the amendment. I feel that if this amendment was position. It has been an essential levelling accepted, and in the 10-year period consultation process. At times there has been a lot of concern occurs immediately after the lapse of five years, about the university college, but that is now both sides could have their say that way. If, after dissipating because of the great work that the five years, it was quite obvious from the professor is doing, and we all thank him for that. It university council's perspective that the college is a great day. needed further assistance from the QUT, that could indeed continue, but if it was felt that the Motion agreed to. university could proceed under its own steam at Legislative Assembly 7917 28 April 1994 that point, then the legislation would give the statutory authorities. It is required in order to college council the opportunity to request that comply with Commonwealth legislation. that take place. That is the reason that I put This Act is retrospectively introduced in forward this amendment. I believe it is an order to match the Commonwealth unreasonable restriction at this stage, but it Government's retrospective introduction of the would still allow the flexibility to go the 10 years if Commonwealth superannuation guarantee the college, the QUT and the Minister of the day charge legislation. Broadly speaking, the Bill will felt that it was necessary. ensure compliance by all statutory authorities in Mr COMBEN: I appreciate the points their ability to participate in superannuation raised by the member for Mooloolah, but I schemes. To date, only employees of the reiterate the matters which I raised in my reply: authorities can participate in these schemes. firstly, the Federal Government's concerns that it This Bill will allow all members to participate, wanted to see a joint arrangement—it did not including directors and board members. The want to see a new university, so this is a backdating of the legislation will result in the compromise which has been reached; secondly, contributions for these members being the practical needs of the university college from backdated to 1 July 1992. I find it unfortunate the QUT as to expertise—as to status— because that the Federal Government and the State it will be a small institution, it will require support Government have been forced to introduce a Bill and nurturing. It would not be difficult to which is retrospective by almost two years. reintroduce this Bill if necessary and if the Perhaps the Queensland Treasurer could commitment is there. I do not think that, if the suggest to his Federal colleagues that they get true need were to be demonstrated, that would their act together a little better in the future so be a hindrance at all. that this is not necessary. The alternative way, of course, would be Hon. K. E. De LACY (Cairns— that any affiliation agreements which are Treasurer) (3.24 p.m.), in reply: I thank the reached, and which will have to be reached, can honourable member and all members of the be varied. It is beyond my comprehension to House for their support of this legislation. It is think that the university college could stand merely a technical Bill designed to allow totally by itself over the next 10 years. But in view compliance by statutory authorities with the of the changes which could be made fairly Federal Government's superannuation quickly, I am confident that if there is a huge guarantee charge legislation. change—if there is suddenly a large amount of Motion agreed to. funding or a massive further development on the Sunshine Coast—then we can address that at the time. I do not think there would be any great Committee difficulties there. Clauses 1 to 5, as read, agreed to. Amendment negatived. Bill reported, without amendment. Clause 86, as read, agreed to. Clauses 87 to 102, as read, agreed to. Third Reading Bill reported, without amendment. Bill, on motion of Mr De Lacy, by leave, read a third time. Third Reading Bill, on motion of Mr Comben, by leave, read QUEENSLAND BUILDING SERVICES a third time. AUTHORITY AMENDMENT BILL Second Reading STATUTORY AUTHORITIES Debate resumed from 14 April (see (SUPERANNUATION ARRANGEMENTS) p. 7556). BILL Mr J. N. GOSS (Aspley) (3.27 p.m.): For Second Reading the Government to admit that the Queensland Debate resumed from 14 April (see Building Services Authority has a problem is p. 7547). certainly a step in the right direction, but it is also an understatement. In mid-1991, when a Mr Mr CONNOR (Nerang) (3.23 p.m.): The Griffith was the Registrar/General Manager of the coalition does not oppose this Bill. As the Builders Registration Board, the administration Treasurer stated in his second-reading speech, it had an account balance of $6.8m. Over the next will introduce an Act which provides two years, the income from fees amounted to superannuation benefits for all members of 28 April 1994 7918 Legislative Assembly approximately $7m. Yet, at the end of that two- Mr Beattie: From whom? year period, the administration account was $2m Mr J. N. GOSS: It is a Government in the red. Two years of reckless spending of an document. That is typical of the bullyboy attitude amount of approximately $14m put the Building of this Government. The role of the board should Services Authority $2m behind. That was during clearly be as the governing body of the the period when Mr Rod Richards was the Queensland Building Services Authority. The registrar/general manager. board has consisted of dedicated members of With the introduction of this amendment Bill, the building industry. They are people who have almost everything that Consumer Affairs praised placed the building industry first; they have put it in the operation of the Building Services before their own personal beliefs and thoughts. Authority in Queensland is being destroyed. We only have to look at the number of board Consumer Affairs complimented the members who have resigned in disgust. Even Queensland legislation for having a separate the union representative on the board was HBAS. It said how important it was that consumer unable to accept the political interference. advice and the education division be a separate It became a boys' club over at the identity within the authority. Queensland Building Services Authority. Doubts had also been expressed about the Anybody who did not fit in had great pressure independence of the tribunal because of the placed on them. Many of the good people have close relationship between the then chairman of resigned over the attitude towards them. One of the tribunal and the former registrar/general the first people they got rid of, so to speak, was a manager, as at that time the registrar/general capable person who was on the Builders' manager had lent the chairman of the tribunal a Registration Board. I refer to Elizabeth Shearer. luxury vehicle. That former registrar/general She was one of the outstanding people on that manager is seen regularly at the tribunal, which board—she is especially knowledgeable in the again raises a question about the impartiality and legal area—and the boys' club got rid of her. She independence of the tribunal. As each State falls was far too smart for the new registrar/general to conservative Governments, it must be difficult manager. for some of the ALP cronies to get jobs these Mr Mackenroth: That was the previous days. board. Looking at the review—it was strange that Mr J. N. GOSS: Yes. the review of the building industry was done basically by accountants. The terms of reference Mr Mackenroth: I just want to make sure differed dramatically from the board's request for that you're not getting things confused. the review. The terms of reference were actually Mr J. N. GOSS: I can assure the Minister kept confidential from the board for a period of that I am not confused at all. It basically comes three months leading up to the review. Some back to the fact that the board has now become a industry groups were not even consulted, and tea and biscuits board. As a result of this some other groups, such as consumers, did not amending legislation, the board will have less have the chance to have an input into this authority than it had before. It will really only review. I believe that the board members who provide some form of guidance to the had resigned in disgust at what had happened at registrar/general manager. When the board had the authority were not even approached to find to develop a policy, the person who was out why they had resigned and what the employed to develop that policy was Raelene problems were between the board and the Kelly. What happened to Raelene Kelly? The authority that had caused them to take such pressure was applied, and finally she was paid drastic action. out and removed. That made it very difficult for All industry groups sought the principle of board members—without legal advice—to the board having control over the develop a policy. The whole idea was to isolate registrar/general manager, with the board the board from the executive of the authority. reporting to the Minister and the registrar/general The executive of the authority was taking over manager being responsible for the day-to-day what should have been the board's operation of the Queensland Building Services responsibility. Authority, but this has not occurred. One of the This amending legislation will ensure that sad things that has happened is that the Minister the board has no responsibility for financial went over there and said to the board members management or review of the operation of the that, "This is going to be the results of the review authority. It will also have no input into the annual and this is what is going to happen", and they report. As honourable members are probably were either going to have to accept it or resign. It aware, in the past there was some conflict is in black and white as a part of the action form. between what the executive of the authority Legislative Assembly 7919 28 April 1994 wanted to see contained in the annual report and board members thought that the industry was what the board wanted to include in it. When more important than politics and the intrigue that decisions go wrong, the board is going to be goes on. That board has had a tough time. As used as a scapegoat. Reducing the membership honourable members are aware, over the last two of the board from 9 to 13 is certainly not going to years a number of prominent members of the change—— board have resigned. The board has not Mr Mackenroth: You mean from 13 to 9. received from management the information that it needed in order to make informed decisions Mr J. N. GOSS: Sorry, from 13 to 9. That about the future of the board and the authority. is not going to change anything, because the However, I am sure that this Minister will not make board is not a real board. It does not have any the same mistake, and I am sure that his powers. This will ensure that the control of the appointments will certainly toe the political line. authority remains firmly with the Department of The previous registrar/general manager—— Housing; it will be political. Mr Mackenroth: I am going to show that Let us have a look at the selection process to the subcontractors—that of the three people in respect of members of the board. The that they put forward, you believe the one I pick chairman is appointed by the Minister. I have no out will toe my line. That's what you just said. qualms about that. I believe that the chairman should be appointed by the Minister. Of the two Mr J. N. GOSS: That is right—ran the representatives of licensed builders, one will authority into a $2m debt through incompetence come from the Queensland Master Builders and not making informed and detailed Association and the other from the Housing information available to the board in a Industry Association. Once again, the Minister professional manner so that the board could do selects those representatives from a panel of its job properly. As I said before, the board names submitted by those two organisations. I consisted of very dedicated people in the cannot see why those two organisations could building industry, who were very well respected. not submit one name to the Minister and say, The board was not informed—and this is "This is our representative." No, again the something about which I have spoken—about Minister has to have full control over the the $350,000 payout to a previous situation. If he is not happy with the people registrar/general manager. That did not go whose names have been put forward, the before the board as a special item—as it should Minister can ask those organisations to submit have—for it to approve. That was a cover-up. further names until the people of the right They tried to slip it through. When one of the political persuasion come along. members asked for details about it, that member of the board was denied that information until a Even the representative of the consumers piece of paper was handed around the is appointed by the Minister. One thing I do hope boardroom. It was collected at the end of the is that the insurance industry representative will meeting. It was passed around so quickly that the have experience in commercial insurance and members could not actually remember many of not just life insurance. Of the representatives of the details on it, such as the amounts and the the licensed contractors—that is, people other times. than licensed builders—two will be selected by the Minister from a number of names that are put Mr Mackenroth: I do not believe that you forward by the industry. The third one will be can say this about these people—that they could appointed directly by the Minister. be so incompetent that they would allow something like that to be put over them—that Of the nine members, five are appointed they wouldn't even bother to read what was put directly by the Minister and four are selected by before them. That is a terrible slight on those the Minister from a number of people who have people. Those people have much more been nominated. There is no way that the competence than that. That is terrible. industry or the consumers can really say that they have a true representative on the board. But I do Mr J. N. GOSS: No, it is a terrible slight on not suppose it really matters whether the the management of the authority that that industry has 300 representatives on the board, amount of $350,000—it was not quite that because the Minister has the final say. It is amount, but that is what the payment ended disappointing that the Minister has not shown up—was disguised under special payments to these organisations that he has full confidence in staff. It was a special payment to one person. The their ability to be able to select their own Minister really should look at what is going on in representatives. the board. The operation of the board certainly requires the Minister's close scrutiny. I must admit that the board appointed by the previous Minister did not toe the line. Many Over the past two years, a large number of consultants have been appointed. Many of 28 April 1994 7920 Legislative Assembly those consultants have worked for the Australian information on people's personnel files has Construction Service and are friends of a become common knowledge throughout the previous registrar/general manager and a current office. member of the authority. It is more than obvious Mr Hollis: Why didn't you refer it to the that the authority is employing its friends to carry CJC? out the work of consultants. Mr J. N. GOSS: I have referred one As to the purchase of the computer, which matter to the CJC. Because of the political and was unsuitable, the consultants have been jobs-for-the-boys appointments, staff spend working with that computer for two years. Still that more time spying on other staff than they do in consultancy work continues, and still the getting on with the job. People receive computer is failing. Perhaps the Minister should promotions because of their relationships rather investigate who the authority is employing as than their ability to get on with the job. That does consultants. Even up until about a year ago, the not apply to everybody; there are still some very authority employed a large number of staff, and capable people who work there, but the loafers then discovered that it did not have the work for and incompetent staff are protected by their them. It anticipated a lot of licensing work, and relatives. People are hiring their relatives and, in when that did not eventuate, it had to offload a most cases, those relatives get promoted. large number of staff who were sitting around. That is one of the factors that contributed to this Most of the complaints from home owners, $2m loss. builders and subcontractors that were received in January have yet to have action taken on As I have said, the board is not the them. That is an indication of how far behind the problem—it is a boys' club. It is well known that a authority is falling with complaints. Most of the previous registrar/general manager had the field officers are working hard, are dedicated and questions that he would be asked at an interview are putting in a great effort. However, it is faxed to him to ensure that he got the job over common knowledge that one field officer comes another applicant who had a very good chance of in on Mondays, spends most of his time at home getting it. This situation is the result of bad for the rest of the week, and then comes back on management and political interference, all Friday. He lives a charmed life, yet other staff are operated by the boys' club. really putting in a lot of effort. As I said, promotion Mr Mackenroth: Who are you talking is not achieved on merit; it is achieved by people about? I have never heard of that. in the know and people who have a senior Mr J. N. GOSS: I will answer the Minister's relative on the authority. While all this power play interjection. Mr Heilpern had the information is going on, even more damning is the fact there about the questions that he was going to be are contractors and builders working out there asked to ensure that he got the job. who are really a disgrace to the building industry. They are the five per cent of the people in the I now outline the case of the board industry who builders and contractors want to get secretary—and this is something that should be rid of, yet they seem to live a charmed life. The of concern to every working woman—who had to complaints against them—they are absolutely be protected by a board member. That board disgusting builders—seem to slip by without member had to sit at her desk to prevent, in investigation. That is a serious accusation, and I particular, senior staff of the authority trying to do not make it lightly. I know of people who have remove from her computer confidential board telephoned the authority on a regular basis information. There is continual harassment of because their whole livelihood as a builder or a some of the female staff of the authority. contractor depends on fairly quick action by the Mr Bennett: What sort of harassment? authority, yet the number of cases about which Mr J. N. GOSS: Other board members little or no action is taken for months is witnessed one of the secretaries being increasing. That causes many builders and physically attacked in the car park. A senior contractors to get into a really bad financial member tried to find out if she had in her purse a position. board computer disk or any information that I will confess that the new general manager related to what the board had discussed. is serious. He is really trying to get the operations Mr Campbell: That's a serious allegation. of the Queensland Building Services Authority up and running. However, there are still people Mr J. N. GOSS: It is a serious allegation, who hold senior positions who are determined to and there are reliable witnesses to that incident, see that those changes are not made. I would which was allowed to happen. Parts of personnel say that the new general manager has to look files have gone missing. People's personal files seriously at some of his senior staff. have been tampered with. Confidential Legislative Assembly 7921 28 April 1994
When the authority was sold to the building Mr J. N. GOSS: There are close to 50 industry, the Government said, "The authority is now. Yesterday, the board decided that a person yours. The authority belongs to the building who installs a tilt-a-door or roll-a-door will have to industry." What a joke that is! The building get a licence as well. We are certainly going to industry has little or no say any more. The board extremes. Between 2 000 and 3 000 Gold Cards has become a token. have not yet been issued. Local government has I will go back to the number of complaints been advised that it should not accept plans from and the action that is taken in relation to them. a designer/draftsman unless that person is For months, many complaints are put in the registered. Again, there has been a breakdown too-hard basket. If it is a simple complaint, the in the system. The computer has been blamed authority will jump on the builder, but if it is a for this failure. Now councils are not approving difficult complaint, it is just put in the too-hard house plans because people have not received basket, and things go on and on. For example, a their cards. Therefore, the councils are deeming number of Toowoomba subcontractors took them not to be registered. Yet those councils action against a person to recover funds owed to have been instructed that these people should them. I believe that it was a six-figure sum. be able to produce a card. That has left doubt in However, what do we find? All of a sudden the the minds of councils. These delays are costing contractor, Mr Nick Dardanis, became a bankrupt. home owners and builders money and are He could not pay them. Yet today, this man, who causing them a lot of concern. owes well over $100,000, is building a shopping Additionally, the authority registered a complex. The authority knows about it. A number of people as concreters. That was a bankrupt is building a shopping complex! He has mistake; apparently these people were not no intention of paying his subcontractors. concreters. But no action has been taken to Mr Mackenroth: I understand the person rectify the mistake. One builder has registered a that you are referring to is not a bankrupt. complaint with the authority because he lost an estimated $30,000 by employing these Mr J. N. GOSS: He is not paying them people—all because of an authority error! Now back. I have spoken to a number of the the authority is employing non-technical staff contractors who have taken legal action because from the CES to issue the cards. Again, it is a they have lost their money. Yet he can continue great risk to have non-technical staff issuing building. For instance, a decorative concrete cards. These people should have at least some company that has received dozens of complaints knowledge of the building industry. Because of against it is still operating. I have a list of the removal of the grandfather clause, the older companies about which a large number of and more respected builders—and no complaints have been made. As of this date, complaints were made against them—are pulling nothing has happened to them. out because of conditions such as the There are files on almost 150 unregistered undertaking of management courses and other people who are operating in the industry. As a courses being imposed upon them. follow-up, they are sent a letter saying, "You're a One lady had a problem with a retaining wall. naughty boy. Don't do it again. Come in and get I urged her to lodge a complaint with the registered." There are about six, seven, or eight authority. The contractor pulled out the survey complaints a week being made. They have no pegs and, two weeks later, built the retaining priority status. For one thing, the authority wall. It was a very substandard wall. When he built cannot always find them, because these people it, he built it on the neighbour's land; he could are moving around all of the time. If they are not find from where he had pulled out the survey found and action taken against them, the fine is pegs. Within days, the wall started to fail. The so small—it could be $100, $200 or $800—that home owner received good advice from the there is no incentive for them to register. authority. Yet, when the matter came before the Unlicensed contractors are using numerous tribunal, this lady was deserted by the authority. loopholes to avoid prosecution. This includes The tribunal found against the home owner. The the fair trading laws. tribunal arbiter said that the estate must have We also have to note that the number of been surveyed wrongly and that the original licence categories is increasing. There are about survey pegs must have been in the wrong place. 50 categories in licensing now. This is one of the problems that arise when Mr Mackenroth: Twenty-six. people with no knowledge of the building industry serve on a tribunal. Mr J. N. GOSS: Yesterday, the board—— Mr Beattie: Survey pegs can be in the Mr Mackenroth: About 50? It's 26! wrong place. 28 April 1994 7922 Legislative Assembly
Mr J. N. GOSS: It has been agreed by all weekend." The builder gives the owner a key to parties, including the authority, that everything drop in the light fittings. In some cases, the was correct. I find it hard to believe that someone builder arrives on Monday morning only to could sit in an office and make such an arbitrary find—and this has been occurring regularly in decision. This judge—for want of a better north Queensland—that the family has moved word—was condescending to this woman. The into the house just as the house is being judge even joked with the builder in the tribunal. finished. When the builder comes around to A number of women have appeared before the collect his payment, the home owners are not tribunal and they have been treated in a belittling forthcoming with the money. They have no manner. The attitude they received was, "What complaints about the house, but they refuse to would you know about the building industry? pay. As a result, the builder must lodge his fee at What would you know about building a house?" the tribunal. He probably has to wait three These are complaints that I have received from months for the tribunal to hear the case. That is a women. bonus to home owners. They do not have to Mr Mackenroth: How many? withdraw their money from the bank, so they are collecting interest for three months. However, at Mr J. N. GOSS: I will refer to another one. the same time, that money is crucial to keep that Mr Mackenroth: How many? builder in a positive financial position. Mr J. N. GOSS: This is another one. I am This has become a new ploy. People are going through the details. getting away with it because, when the Building Mr Mackenroth: I said, "How many?" Services Authority was set up, it was claimed that people would have their cases heard by the Mr J. N. GOSS: Quite a few. There are tribunal within one week. That is how it was sold several women in just the immediate area around when Tom Burns was the Minister. Today, that me—McDowall, Bridgeman Downs and so period has blown out to three months. on—who have had problems. I have not been Unfortunately, the unscrupulous people out able to look at the houses in other parts of the there are using the tribunal and the authority to State about which complaints have been made. I their advantage. inspected the home of another lady whose complaints I think could have been One of the provisions in the Bill that substantiated. She received condescending concerns me is that the tribunal can order a treatment at the tribunal. She lost her case, too. builder to reimburse the insurance scheme. Builders pay $262 for the average home as I believe that women who go to the tribunal insurance in case something goes wrong. It will are disadvantaged. People are informed, "Look, be all very well for the tribunal to say to the you do not have to go with legal advice. You just builder, even though he has paid his premium, go in and present your case. The tribunal is very "You must reimburse the scheme." If a shonky understanding." But what happens? A bad builder loses his licence, he will borrow another builder may have appeared before the tribunal a one. I can assure members that some builders number of times, and may have become are operating on borrowed licences. I believe relatively experienced. Quite often, the builder that the number of such builders is increasing. goes in with legal support. The home owner who One need only drive around one's local area to is encouraged to believe that she can go into the see a number of sites on which buildings— tribunal and present her case is at a distinct particularly units—are being constructed disadvantage. Unfortunately, in many cases the although no builder's registration sign is posted people who lose are those who go in on the outside the building. Perhaps the local authority, belief that all they have to do is tell their story. when it carries out its inspections, should check Sadly, these judges have a bad habit of not that the builder's registration number is on doing an inspection. Even if it is only a short display. Under this provision, the dishonest distance from Brisbane, or even if the house is in contractor will place himself in the position in a Brisbane suburb, they will not inspect. I believe which he will not have to reimburse the insurance the tribunal should consist of retired builders or scheme, and the honest builder who may contractors who have a good history in the occasionally make a mistake will cop the penalty. building industry. I have seen that work well. The I believe that, with the insurance scheme, problem is that the tribunal is so far behind that the premium for an average home should be some home owners now are taking advantage of $5,000 with a no-claim bonus of $4,738, which the builders who have shown them compassion. comes back to the premium of $262. If that was In some cases, the home may be close to being the case, the people who have a bad record of finished. The home owner may approach the claiming against the insurance scheme will end builder and say, "I want to put a fridge in or drop up paying $5,000 for their insurance. It would not the light fittings into the house over the Legislative Assembly 7923 28 April 1994 be worth their while to even enter into a building she left the mediation early, it could well go contract if they were up for $5,000 before they against her at the tribunal. My feeling is that some start. The better the builder, the lower the of the people involved in mediation are using the premium. Hopefully, a high insurance premium system to make money. I have been told the would force those shonks out of the business. legal profession considers mediation a real gravy I believe that a severe penalty must be train. Perhaps we need to scrutinise those who imposed on people who lend their licences to enter long sessions of mediation with little others who have been in trouble. One builder, chance of success. Of course, if mediation fails, who even had two Cabinet Ministers on site there is a $200 fee to have the case heard by the when he went broke, is now back in the building tribunal, and that can take months. industry. He is still a bankrupt. I wish the new general manager well. I think Mr Beattie: What do you mean he had two that he will need all the luck in the world. Some of Cabinet Ministers on site? the staff of the Queensland Building Services Authority really should not be employed there. Mr J. N. GOSS: I will answer that They have no interest in the building industry, interjection. When that builder went broke and and they have no interest in seeing it improve. In the subcontractors could not be paid, two fact, one of the jokes at the authority is their Ministers actually went on site. There was a lot of flexitime sheets. The big joke is that they are publicity about it. Two builders were involved, called cheat sheets. For a long period, it has but one of them is now back—probably bigger been accepted that it is all right for employees to than ever—in the home-building industry. cheat on their flex sheets. One has to examine the annual report of the The authority should be offering a good authority to discover that the payout on the service. The Minister may well laugh about all insurance scheme is 60 per cent of the contract this, but I am sure that he does have some to a maximum of $45,000. In one case, work on a interest in it. I am aware that people out there say home was rectified and the rectifications failed. that he does not have an interest in housing, that The owner said, "You are doing exactly the same his only interest is in local government. The in the rectification of my home as the original authority offices around the State should be builder did." In any event, that person's home offering a service. Some of the offices up and was eventually rectified at considerable down the State, even though they are manned expense. Shortly after the rectification, the by a number of staff, are closed for an hour at concrete started to crack and break up again. lunch. Quite often the offices are closed during The owner went back to the authority. The the lunch break, when subcontractors and authority said, "I am sorry. Your insurance money others would like to go and do business. The has been spent. If your concrete is going to crack offices are closed while two or three staff are and break up, too bad. That is it. You have inside having their lunch. There needs to be received your money." The builder in question some flexibility. That point has been raised by now has gone broke—he has disappeared—and builders up and down the coast, that the local the authority has washed its hands of that case. office is closed when one of the staff could be However, some people have been able to claim manning that office during the lunch break. well in excess of $45,000. It appears that a limit of $45,000 is insufficient when there are major I can tell the Minister that morale is very low faults in the foundations or in the slab of a house. in the authority. That is reflected by the number The cost of rectifying such faults would be of staff who have resigned from the authority. probably greater than $45,000. In fact, some Some of those people have left the authority homes would have to be demolished totally. I due to harassment in the workplace. In fact, one urge the State Government to consider person claims that he has been told that, if he increasing the level of cover to that which applies says anything about what has happened at the in New South Wales, which is just over authority, he will not get another job in the $100,000. It must be remembered that the building industry. People should not be average claim in Queensland is close to $5,000. intimidated and threatened in such a way. In fact, I am urging that person to take that matter further. I want to mention mediation briefly. One lady The whole sad scene is that the Queensland was told to show up for mediation at 6 a.m., so Building Services Authority is not an she did. She said that within one hour she knew independent body. It is fast becoming just a that mediation was not going to work, but the branch of the Department of Housing and Local mediation continued with no lunch break—apart Government. from a few sandwiches being brought in—until 6 p.m. that night. I am not sure of the fee for Mr Mackenroth: No. mediation, but it is probably $40 or $50 an hour. Mr J. N. GOSS: Yes, it is, because back in That is not a bad fee. That lady was told that, if the days when Hans Heilpern was the 28 April 1994 7924 Legislative Assembly registrar/general manager, he would leave board Mr J. N. GOSS: Yes, they do. The meetings to go and ring the Director-General of Minister does not know anything about it. I will Housing to inform him of what was happening. It say now that if an independent judicial inquiry was common knowledge that he was phoning was to look into the authority, and it has to be the director-general to discuss what was independent—— happening at the board meetings. The Minister Mr Mackenroth interjected. does not want to know about the problems over there; it is all too much of a problem. The Mr J. N. GOSS: All these inquiries and all day-to-day control is falling under the these reviews have all been predetermined in Department of Housing and the Minister. If the the past, so the authority will probably never get Minister was truly serious—— up and running. It will never be doing its true job until it is actually scrapped and a new start is Mr Mackenroth interjected. made. Mr J. N. GOSS: The Minister can laugh it Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Bredhauer): off. I know the Minister. When he starts laughing I call the member for—— things off and looking around the Chamber for reassurance, it proves that he really does not know what is going on over there. PRIVILEGE Mr Mackenroth: You don't know what Mr D. Barbagallo; Mr D. Atkins you're talking about; that's what I'm laughing Mr SLACK (Burnett) (4.17 p.m.): I rise on a about. matter of privilege under Standing Order 115. I Mr J. N. GOSS: An independent judicial have today received documents, which I table, inquiry into the activities of the Queensland and which appear to contradict statements the Building Services Authority from mid-1991 is Premier and the Minister for Environment and what is needed. As the situation of the authority Heritage—— goes from bad to worse, the authority will Mr CAMPBELL: I rise to a point of order. continue to be under my scrutiny. I can tell the Minister that more and more problems will arise Mr SLACK: Mr Deputy Speaker—— over there. I do not believe this amendment will Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I am on do anything to rectify the problems. The my feet. The honourable member for Burnett authority has become a boys' club. All should resume his seat. I am getting a ruling. I honourable members know the four people who have taken advice from the Deputy Clerk and I are in the boys' club. have been advised that, if the honourable Mr T. B. Sullivan: I don't. member wishes to raise a matter of privilege, he should do so at the end of this debate. I call the Mr J. N. GOSS: I will tell the honourable member for Maryborough. member. Does the honourable member like public servants being named in the Chamber? If Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. he thinks it is all right, I am happy to name the Mr Deputy Speaker, I refer you to Standing Order public servants. 115 "Speaking to Order or Privilege", which states— Mr T. B. Sullivan: It's just that you've named them by innuendo. You've cast a cloud "A Member may rise to speak to Order, over everyone. or upon a matter of Privilege suddenly arising." Mr J. N. GOSS: If the honourable member would like to know, the boys' club What I am suggesting, Mr Deputy Speaker, is that consists of the Director-General of housing, it is not possible for you to rule on whether the Hans Heilpern, Mr Rod Richards and Mr Potts. matter of privilege is suddenly arising until such Two of those people worked together for many time as you have heard it. years. It has become evident over there that Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! All right. many of the people who get contracts as What is the matter of privilege? consultants are people who all came from the Mr SLACK: I have just received the same work area in the past. documents and I consider that they have grave Mr Mackenroth: Three of those people implications. The documents appear to don't even work there. It's a funny sort of boys' contradict statements of the Premier and the club when they don't even go there. Minister for Environment and Heritage Mr J. N. GOSS: They did work there and concerning events flowing from the seizure of a they still pop over there from time to time. vehicle in Cape Melville National Park. The documents indicate that, contrary to statements Mr Mackenroth: No, they don't. made in this place, Mr Dennis Atkins was not Legislative Assembly 7925 28 April 1994 present at the interview in the Cooktown Police these matters to Mr Speaker so that he can make Station on the morning of 13 November. I ask Mr a determination. Speaker to determine if the Parliament has been Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I have deliberately misled both by the Premier and the made a ruling on that. My ruling—— Minister. Mr LINGARD: I rise to a point of order. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The Mr Slack: Mr Deputy Speaker—— honourable member should resume his seat. I Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I am on am speaking. my feet. I warn the honourable member for Mr LINGARD: I rise to a point of order. Burnett under Standing Order 123A. I rule that that matter of privilege should not be taken at this Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I already time but at the conclusion of this debate. I call the have a point of order before me. The honourable member for Maryborough. member should resume his seat. I have a matter of privilege and two points of order brought Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. before me. Before the honourable member Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! What is raises a further point of order, I would like the the point of order? opportunity to make my ruling on the first point of Mr BORBIDGE: My point of order is that order, which is that the matters which the the honourable member has just received certain honourable member for Burnett wishes to raise documentation which would indicate that there should be raised at the conclusion of this has been a major breach of privilege. He has debate, at which time Mr Speaker can make a tabled those documents; he has assumed it is ruling on the appropriateness of the matter of his responsibility—— privilege. I am now calling the member for Maryborough. Mr Beattie interjected. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. Mr BORBIDGE: The honourable member My point of order is that we are not should just be quiet for a minute. expecting—— Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I have honourable member should get on with his point made my ruling. of order. Mr BORBIDGE: In my experience in this Mr BORBIDGE: My point of order is that place, the Chair never makes immediate rulings the honourable member has assumed that it is on matters of privilege. What we are asking you his responsibility to bring those documents to to do is to refer the matter to Mr Speaker so that the attention of the House as soon as he has he can consider the documents which have received them and I request, Mr Deputy been tabled by the member for Burnett. Speaker, that you refer the documents tabled by the honourable member to Mr Speaker so that Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I am not he can determine whether there has been a making a ruling on the matter of privilege. I am breach of privilege in regard to this matter. ruling that it is appropriate for the matter of privilege to be raised when the Speaker can rule Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! My on it. I am asking the member for Maryborough to suggestion is that the matter should be raised at accept the call and continue the debate. the conclusion of this debate and that Mr Speaker can make a ruling at the appropriate Mr LINGARD: I rise to a point of order. time. I call the member for Maryborough. Mr DOLLIN (Maryborough) (4.21 p.m.): It is Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. with pleasure that I rise to speak in support of the My point of order is that the documents have Queensland Building Services Authority been tabled and, to save both time and a lot of Amendment Bill—— distress, may I suggest—— Mr LINGARD: I rise to a point of order. Government members interjected. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! What is Mr BORBIDGE: They have been tabled the honourable member's point of order? and Government members cannot untable them, Mr LINGARD: I seek clarification from you, so they have to live with their lies. Mr Deputy Speaker. Clearly, a matter of privilege Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! If the was raised. Clearly, documents were tabled. Are Leader of the Opposition has a point of order, he you saying that the documents are not tabled? should make it. This is not a point for debate. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I shall Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Deputy Speaker, the seek a ruling from the Deputy Clerk. The advice final point of formality is simply that you refer from the Deputy Clerk is that I should rule that the 28 April 1994 7926 Legislative Assembly documents are not tabled. Leave was not governing legislation now being debated here granted. I will seek advice from the—— today will aid its achievements set by the Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. legislation and expected by the Government and Mr Deputy Speaker, a member does not need its clients, and that was to clean up the industry. leave to table documents. The honourable Although the great majority of builders are member tabled those documents. Never in the honest, there is a certain element out there that history of this place have members required can only be described as crooks. One such leave to table documents. person I would like to give special mention to is a person operating out of Rockhampton. His name Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The is Tom Cummings. He used to trade as Nam honourable member was not called. I will seek Constructions. Any person or Government advice from the Speaker. I call the member for department doing business with this fellow Maryborough. should certainly do so with great care. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. Unfortunately, there are plenty out there like him. Mr Deputy Speaker, I draw to your attention the We have all witnessed the many large companies fact that leave is required to incorporate that have folded, leaving hundreds of their documents in Hansard. A member rose in customers high and dry and financially accordance with Standing Order 115 and tabled ruined—without a cent, without a house and documents. Those documents do not require without a hope of ever being able to finance leave to be tabled, and they cannot be untabled. another home. K. D. Morris was one of those. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The I give great credit to Tom Burns, the Deputy Deputy Clerk advises that I did not give the Premier and former Minister for Housing and member for Burnett the call. Therefore, the Local Government, who instigated a complete documents have not been tabled. review into the Building Act in 1990. This was Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. conducted by Ms Raelene Kelly, who did an Under Standing Order 115—— excellent job in coming up with recommendations that are now seen as the best Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The balance between the interests of the cost of honourable member will resume his seat. The regulation and the effective operations of the Deputy Clerk advises that the member for board and much more efficient consumer Burnett did have not the call. protection, particularly for families building their Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Deputy Speaker, you own homes. called him. Mr J. N. Goss interjected. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I am Mr DOLLIN: The member for Aspley is trying to give a ruling. making noises. Those people sat on their Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Deputy Speaker, the backsides while the ordinary worker got ripped honourable member rose under Standing Order off by the K. D. Morrises and the like. The 115. You called him. He was recognised by the previous Government did nothing about that. I Chair. He tabled documents. was building at that time. It was so easy to rip Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The them off, because the agreements that came honourable member will resume his seat. I will from the Government at that time were set up to seek advice from the Speaker and come back to look after the shonky builders, most of whom this matter. I call the member for Maryborough. belonged to the National or Liberal Parties. Mr DOLLIN: It is with pleasure that I rise to There is now more freedom in trading for speak in support of the Queensland Building honest builders and contractors. The Services Authority Amendment Bill 1994. As a Queensland Building Services Authority former sawmiller, having spent some 35 years Amendment Bill, in the first 12 months of its supplying the building industry throughout exercise, licensed over 11 000 trade contractors, Queensland and having been involved in a despite the initial opposition from industry and building company for about 10 of those years, I confusion over the future of licensing in the can assure honourable members of this House months leading up to the 1992 election. In that that there was certainly an urgent need for a same period, the authority licensed 2 700 review into all facets of the construction and builders—a significant increase on any previous home-building industries in Queensland, which year. In the current financial year the authority will this Government established in July 1992. meet and, more than likely, exceed its budget target of licensing a further 12 000 trade Since then, the Queensland Building contractors and 1 850 builders. This gives Services Authority has laid solid foundations for positive proof of the continual economic growth its future success, and the changes to its of the Queensland building industry. Legislative Assembly 7927 28 April 1994
The initial industry opposition to licensing and fell to pieces beneath them—and it was has now turned around, and contractors are happening at a pretty rapid rate. realising the benefits that licensing affords. Consumers deserve this protection, and the Indeed, licensees are now actively supporting amendments to the Act will also enable the the authority in identifying unlicensed authority to take action against those unlicensed contractors. They have come to realise that they and unscrupulous persons who prey on the are better off with the shonks out of the industry. elderly and the naive. I hope it will also deal with The authority has been active in policing the those fools who lend their licences to other licensing requirements and, in the first nine people. I hope the member for Aspley knows months of this financial year, has initiated that when people lend their licences, they also disciplinary action in the Queensland Building put themselves in the position of having to make Tribunal against 355 unlicensed persons. Under good anything that goes wrong for the person to the previous Government, they would have all whom they lent the licence. got off scot-free. Where a contractor has ceased operation or Some people have said that the refuses to rectify what is considered defective requirements for licensing are too tight and work, consumers have the protection of the should be liberalised. This highlights the issue of Statutory Insurance Scheme. This is a scheme imposing new requirements on existing that, for a once-only premium of $262 for work of operators and the balance which needs to be a value of over $10,000 or $110 for work found in up-skilling the industry. At the end of between $3,000 and $10,000, provides six the day, there must always be some guarantee years' protection against defective or incomplete that licensing requirements are sufficient to keep work, including the failure of footings and the incompetent and the shonks out of the foundations. Consumers are protected to the industry but allow proven existing contractors to extent of 60 per cent of the contract value, or continue to work and erect good buildings at $45,000, whichever is the lesser. This is reasonable prices. The authority is continuing to probably the cheapest and most valuable review the licensing requirements in conjunction insurance a home builder could possibly have. with the peak building industry organisations to further improve and finetune the industry to the Since the establishment of the authority, benefit of all involved. the insurance cover has been extended to include multiple dwellings up to three storeys in In the dispute resolution area—the height, and home owners are now issued with a authority's inspectors have been able to satisfy certificate of insurance and a set of policy around 90 per cent of disputes notified to the conditions. In 1992-93, the authority paid out authority without reference to the Queensland over $4m in almost 1 000 insurance claims, and Building Tribunal. Previously, a number of these those figures are likely to increase in 1993-94 disputes were either dealt with in the civil court with the extensions in our building programs. system or through arbitration, at great cost to Contrary to what the member for Aspley had to both parties involved. say, through good management the insurance The Queensland Building Tribunal has fund is in a very sound financial position. been very successful in achieving cost-effective In the past, much has been said about the and timely dispute resolutions. Since July 1992, financial management of the authority. However, it has finalised 176 disciplinary matters and 74 the authority's annual report for 1992-93 records reviews of decision and generally enhanced that in that year it made an operating surplus of access to legal redress for many consumers and almost $900,000 compared with $700,000 the contractors who, to their own disadvantage, previous year. In the balance sheet, equity would otherwise not have sought to resolve their increased from $12.5m in 1991-92 to $13.8m in disputes. This is a great achievement at a time 1992-93. when the number of disputes exceeds the average for the previous four years by around 30 Under its new general manager and board per cent. This sort of increase is to be expected, chairperson, the authority's all-round given the high levels of residential building in this performance has improved and will continue to State over the past two years and the inclusion of improve. The board and organisation are working work carried out by trade contractors. Prior to the very hard to ensure that issues raised by the establishment of the authority, or the election of building industry and consumers are addressed. this Goss Government, consumers could not They make themselves available to industry seek assistance in having rectified defective, meetings and ensure that they act on issues unsatisfactory or incomplete work. The battlers raised at those meetings. They have developed out there were left to sing for their deposits or a strategy to make the services of the authority mend their own foundations when they cracked more readily accessible to both industry and 28 April 1994 7928 Legislative Assembly consumers. This strategy will be implemented around this place since the old days and the over the next 12 months. inception of the Builders Registration Board and The restructuring of the authority and the the earlier insurance scheme, I think that some other changes included in the Bill will ensure that people in this room do not realise the the authority's service to all its clients continues significance of the protection that the authority to improve. These amendments in the Bill will has given the public. As a member who has had have a flow-on benefit to all facets of the assistance from the authority, I place on record industry. Benefits to subcontractors are— my appreciation. That related to a problem on the range side of the Darling Downs that resulted licensing with new standards of from slippage of a building constructed there. It competence and qualification; was a very long running problem. As such, those no undercutting by fly-by-nighters; people who owned the house had a tremendous licence fees reinvested back into industry in amount of drama and many problems—— the form of training and ongoing education Mr FitzGerald: Was that the problem that programs; and started off in Lockyer and ended up in a new level of professionalism and Cunningham? representation on the board. Mr ELLIOTT: That is exactly right. The The domestic building tribunal is a quick, member of Lockyer has an intimate knowledge of inexpensive dispute-settling forum. It has the the problem. I see that he has not forgotten. It is means of enforcing the right to be paid. Benefits good to see that he still has a memory of it. This to builders include— case is an example of where protection can be afforded to people who have problems in better licensing standards and better respect of various building programs that go application procedures; astray or are not carried out as they might be. In stricter discipline policies to weed out this particular case, I do not think that the original operators who give the industry a bad name; builder did a lot wrong other than perhaps not to and understand the moisture retention capabilities of the capacity to complain against defaulting some of the soil that was involved and to not subcontractors' licences. sufficiently take into account the drainage of that site. Today I would like to thank a certain The Domestic Building Tribunal offers gentleman, but I will not embarrass him by builders a quick, inexpensive specialist forum to naming him in this House. The local fellow in settle disputes with owners, subcontractors or Toowoomba was most helpful in respect of the the board; a means of enforcing the right to be problem. Then one of the Minister's paid; and an easy appeal system against board troubleshooters—I guess that is what he could orders and discipline. be called—came and gave us assistance. Standardised conditions are to apply to all We had a three-way discussion between the contractors so builders will not be undercut by owners of the building, myself as the local shonky operators with tricky contractors, such as member and with this gentleman whom I have rules about the use of p.s. and p.c. items and a described as a troubleshooter. He had a practical standard rise and fall formula. An optional home approach; at no time did he try to tell these building contract drafted by Government will be people how to suck eggs. He explained how attractive to customers and remove a lot of the everything worked. Although we did not get previous fraud. Members of the public have everything that the owners desired—some access to an advisory service for home building rectification work had been carried out earlier—at customers so they are better informed and know least the people understood exactly how the what to expect. Security of payment to builders is insurance side of it worked, how that rectification guaranteed by means of the optional joint trust program was carried out, and how some work was account, which is recommended and contained able to be done. The authority then gave an in the standard contract. undertaking that it would provide some In conclusion, this is good legislation that consultancy work and try to rectify the problem. affords protection to the industry as a whole and Both the troubleshooter and I—as someone who particularly the citizens who set out to build a has had practical experience in the engineering family house, which is most probably their largest game—both agreed that one of the problems ever investment. I support the Bill. was due to trees being planted on one side of Mr ELLIOTT (Cunningham) (4.35 p.m.): I the house. They were sucking moisture out of would like to make a few comments in respect of the profile on the downhill side; whereas on the the Queensland Building Services Authority uphill side there were no trees, so there was a Amendment Bill. As a member who has been problem with moisture retention around the Legislative Assembly 7929 28 April 1994 retaining wall. That was pushing the whole already been obtained by the newspapers under building sideways. We worked out a few practical FOI. It is not new or anything else, but we will solutions to that, as well as doing something allow them to do that so that we can get on with about the trees. That is an example of the the debate. assistance that is available. I think that some Mr FITZGERALD: I rise to a point of order. people take the whole program for granted. I place on record my appreciation for that Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The assistance. Leader of House raised a point of order. I rule that that is not a point of order. I have made a I ask the Minister to look at the new authority reference to the documents that have been as it relates to people who have a builder's tabled by the member—— licence. I have had a look at the Bill and I have considered those people who are the Mr FITZGERALD: The honourable representatives on the board. Also, I would like member cannot move the adjournment of the to understand better the workings of the debate because he is already speaking to the authority. My concern applies more to people in motion. The Standing Orders prevent—— country areas than it does to those building Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The high-rise buildings or large blocks of flats or member should allow me to continue. If he had houses in the city. A lot of people in the country not interrupted, he would know that I made a build dairies, sheds and other similar buildings. ruling in relation to the documents that were Many practical bush carpenters have gained a tabled by the member for Cunningham. They mile of practical experience. As such, they have relate to the matter which was previously the done a lot of good work that has stood the test of subject of discussion and which has been time. They have never given anyone any trouble. referred to Mr Speaker for advice. The Some of those people actually received their documents that have been tabled by the licences when the Building Services Authority member for Cunningham will likewise be referred came into being. I would like an assurance from to Mr Speaker for advice. the Minister that those people who were given Mr FITZGERALD: Mr Deputy licences are still covered and that they will not be Speaker—— required to undertake a further TAFE college course. Quite frankly, although some of those Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is the member people are excellent builders, they may not have rising to a point of order? the necessary academic qualifications to Mr FITZGERALD: Yes. undertake those courses. I would like to talk very Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the briefly about that. Before going on, I would like to member's point of order? table a document about which I would like to say a few words later. Mr FITZGERALD: Mr Deputy Speaker, I seek your ruling on all documents tabled during It is important to understand that some of debates. Are you to rule whether they shall be these people work in remote areas such as tabled or not tabled? national parks where they have to build facilities for rangers or for visitors who come to those Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, because parks to experience the pleasure that those these specific documents relate to a matter that national parks offer. For argument's sake, I would has been previously been attempted to be just like to touch on areas in the far north of raised in the House and has been referred to Mr Queensland, such as the Cape Melville and Speaker for advice. I think that it is appropriate Roaring Meg Falls National Parks—— that I, as Deputy Speaker, likewise refer those documents to Mr Speaker for his advice. I call the Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Bredhauer): member for Cunningham. Order! The documents that the member has tabled relate to a matter that has been referred to Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. Mr Speaker for advice. These documents will Mr Deputy Speaker, I seek a ruling from you as to likewise be referred to Mr Speaker for advice. whether it is now necessary for members of this House to seek approval from the Chair before Mr MACKENROTH: I rise to a point of documents are tabled. In my experience in this order. It is obvious to me that the National Party place, it has always been the right of members to wants to continue to try to prostitute the table any documents that they wish in this place, Standing Orders of this Chamber. I ask the and the only time that leave of the House has honourable member, when he comes to the been required is when those documents are conclusion of his speech, to move that the being incorporated in Hansard. There has been debate be adjourned. That will allow National no such request by either the honourable Party members their little bit of pleasure of tabling member for Burnett or the honourable member this document which, as I understand, has for Cunningham. 28 April 1994 7930 Legislative Assembly
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I will rule the House at that time. Therefore, that Standing on the point of order that has been raised by the Order has been misunderstood or abused by the Leader of the Opposition. The documents which Leader of the Opposition. Secondly, on the were tabled by the member for Cunningham are subject of the tabling of documents—they have the same documents as those which were the to be relevant documents at the time of the subject of discussion earlier. I ruled that they debate. I have had a look at the documents should be referred to Mr Speaker for information themselves. One of the most disturbing things and decision. I am now ruling that the documents for me as Speaker is that members feel that they tabled the member for Cunningham likewise be have the right to get up in the House at any time referred to Mr Speaker. I call the member for on a matter of privilege and say and do what they Cunningham. like. In my view, there is not a matter of privilege Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. in these documents, and certainly, I rule right now that there is no proof that a member of the Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the House has deliberately misled it. In regard to honourable member's point of order? privilege and what has been said in this House, I Mr BORBIDGE: I seek clarification. Have will say that there is a breach of privilege only if a those documents been tabled or not? member of this place knowingly gets up in this House and misleads the House, and there Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. I have needs to be proof. made my ruling. They are to be referred to Mr Speaker. I call the member for Cunningham. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Deputy Speaker, are Mr SPEAKER: Order! We are now in the they to be tabled? middle of a debate on the Queensland Building Services Authority Amendment Bill. An issue Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have ruled that has been going on in this House for months that they are to be referred to Mr Speaker for on end has again been raised. I will not allow this advice as to the appropriateness of whether they debate to be stopped at any time for have been tabled. grandstanding, and I so rule. Now we will get Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Deputy Speaker, I back to the debate. have a point of clarification. I assume by your Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. I ruling that they have been tabled. seek clarification in regard to Standing Order Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I call the 115. Mr Speaker, with respect, you were not in member for Cunningham. No, I am not saying the chair at the time. Mr Speaker, to assist you, that they have been tabled at all. what happened is that the member for Burnett Mr BORBIDGE: On what grounds have was given certain documents which suggested that information given to this House in regard to they not been tabled? the seizure of a vehicle at Cape Melville was Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is not my incorrect. As soon as he had received that ruling. My ruling is—— information, the member for Burnett came into Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Deputy Speaker, the Chamber to draw the attention of the House under what Standing Order are those to this situation. I suggest, with respect, that documents not being tabled? Standing Order 115 states that a member may rise to speak to order upon a matter of privilege Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I believe that suddenly arising. The first opportunity that the the Leader of the Opposition is not displaying member for Burnett had to raise this matter in the any cooperation in this matter. There was an House was after he received copies of the attempt to table documents previously. relevant documentation, which may relate to Mr BORBIDGE: They were tabled. members of this House being deliberately misled Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: There was an by the Premier and the Minister for Environment attempt to table documents. and Heritage. Mr SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Mr SPEAKER: I have given my ruling on members, the Deputy Speaker has said that he that. I am saying quite clearly that the honourable would seek a ruling from me about the tabling of member for Burnett has misinterpreted that documents. There are two issues at stake: one, Standing Order. A matter of privilege suddenly of course, is the argument by the Leader of the arising does not mean something that the Opposition that during any debate anybody can Premier may have said here two weeks ago. That rise on a matter of privilege suddenly arising and is what we are talking about. It is not a matter of hold up the debate. That is not true at all. A privilege, and I am ruling that way. If the Leader of matter of privilege suddenly arising should be the Opposition wishes, he has recourse to the attributed to something that was happening in norms of the House. If the Speaker's ruling is to Legislative Assembly 7931 28 April 1994 be tested, then the Leader of the Opposition Mr LINGARD: I respectfully seek leave to can move dissent from the Speaker's ruling. I will move a motion without notice—— speak to the Clerk. The other part of the Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is totally out of equation is that I am not going to allow debates to order. be run over like this. If I were to countenance listening to such an argument, it would never be Mr LINGARD: No, it is not. I am seeking during the middle of a debate. That is another leave to move a motion without notice. ruling I make. I am not going to allow debates to Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is certainly out be closed down because of something that was of order. I am not going to even put that said in this House days or weeks ago. question. The member will resume his seat. I Mr SLACK: I rise to a point of order. Mr warn him under Standing Order 124. He is totally Speaker, you used the term "grandstanding", to out of order. I call the member for Cunningham. which I object. I received those documents only a little while ago. I saw significance in the account Mr ELLIOTT: I wish to thank the Minister given by the person that is contained in those for the assistance that his officers gave me. I documents. Under Standing Order 115, I—— regret that the documents that I sought to table were not tabled. I have always thought that when Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am not going to one laid documents on the table, they were debate this any further. I have given my rulings. tabled, but never mind—— Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will Mr Speaker, can you therefore advise the House resume his seat. I would suggest that that is in whether the documents laid upon the table of contempt of the ruling of the Chair. It is a the House by the honourable member have standard practice in any debate in any Parliament been tabled? in the Westminster system that members may Mr SPEAKER: Order! I was not in the table documents without seeking leave. House at that time. The Deputy Clerk advises Members may table documents, but the that the documents are not tabled; that, for the documents must be relevant to the debate at documents to have been tabled, they would that time. That is all I am saying. have had to be relevant to the debate. Mr ELLIOTT: I understand that. I was Therefore, the only way that the member can working my way around to giving some relevance properly table a document is to seek leave at the to the documents in respect of bush carpenters end of the debate. My ruling is this—— and those sorts of people who are working in Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. national parks and in interpretative centres in the Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have made my north. I was trying to show relevance in that ruling. I will not allow the time of the House to be respect. With those few words, I will allow taken up any further. At the end of this debate, I someone else to have a go. will give the call to the member for Burnett. The Debate interrupted. member can then raise his matter of privilege, and that is the appropriate time for him to table his documents. I could then look at the PRIVILEGE documents properly. Misleading of House by the Premier and Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Speaker, I take it that, the Minister for Environment and by your ruling, you are now setting a precedent Heritage whereby members have to seek leave to table Mr SLACK (Burnett) (4.55 p.m.): I rise on a documents. I draw your attention to a ruling in the matter of privilege under Standing Order 115. In Supreme Court—— doing so, I now table documents that I received Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the recently and that appear to contradict statements Opposition will resume his seat. I am not going to of the Premier and the Minister for Environment be misinterpreted by the Leader of the and Heritage concerning events flowing from the Opposition. That is not my ruling. I call the seizure of a vehicle in Cape Melville National member for Cunningham. Park. The documents indicate that, contrary to statements made in this place, Mr Denis Atkins Mr FITZGERALD: I move— was not present at the interview in the Cooktown "That Mr Speaker's ruling of 28 April Police Station on the morning of 13 November. relating to a matter of privilege and the Mr Speaker, I ask you to determine whether tabling of documents by the member for the Parliament has been deliberately misled by Burnett be dissented from." both the Premier and the Minister. In explanation of that, Mr Speaker, I draw your attention to the document, in that the writer of the document—— 28 April 1994 7932 Legislative Assembly
Mr SPEAKER: Order! I will not allow the the authority if that work is defective or member for Burnett to debate the issue now. He unsatisfactory. This amendment will not only aid has made a statement and tabled his documents. the owner/builder but it will also offer further I will allow the member to move that the matter be protection to subsequent purchasers. referred to the Select Committee of Privileges. At present the authority must give a Mr SLACK: Mr Speaker, I ask you to make licensee 21 days' notice of an intention to cancel a ruling on it and advise the House. his or her licence. Such a long notice period Mr SPEAKER: Order! All right, That is leaves consumers vulnerable to the contractor fine. The member will resume his seat. who, because of acute financial difficulties, continues to enter into contracts and take deposits. The authority also needs to be able to QUEENSLAND BUILDING SERVICES move more quickly to protect consumers where a AUTHORITY AMENDMENT BILL licence has been obtained by fraud or when the Second Reading licensee is convicted of an indictable offence. The amendment to allow for the immediate Debate resumed. cancellation of a licence will provide greater Mr BENNETT (Gladstone) (4.57 p.m.): protection for consumers where extenuating After the prostitution of the House by the circumstances exist. Where the authority finds Opposition here today, it gives me great that there are grounds for immediate pleasure to speak to the Queensland Building cancellation, it must notify the licensee in writing Services Authority Amendment Bill. Obviously, of the cancellation and the avenues of review the Opposition does not take a lot of interest in available. In a similar vein, the insertion of the the building services industry, because it tried to new section 102A provides the tribunal with the ruin this debate and to delay it. I find its actions power to order the immediate suspension of a quite reprehensible. licence where circumstances warrant. Mr Beattie: You're right. The Act currently provides that a contractor Mr BENNETT: That is dead correct. The for major domestic building work— say, over Building Services Authority Act was about $30,000—must satisfy certain requirements, and consumer protection for builders and consumers upon entering into such a contract the licensee in the construction of houses. I had a house built must give a copy of the contract to the consumer about a year ago. The protection that the Bill and the authority. afforded me gave me a great sense of comfort In the interests of strengthening consumer when I entered into a contract to build that protection, this section is being amended to house. That was because I knew that I had some provide that failure to comply with the six years in which to have any problems rectified. requirements will constitute an offence which That certainly was a great step forward. At that attracts a penalty. As the expert in contractual time, I spoke to a Gold Card holder. He said that matters, the onus is on the licensee to ensure he was looking forward to the day when all conformity with the Act. tradespeople and subcontractors carried cards Consumers will be further protected by the as well. Now that is being achieved. insertion of subsection (3), which provides that if This Bill provides a lot of consumer the contract is for residential construction work, protection. Under clause 15 of the Bill, which is covered by the Statutory Insurance owner/builders pay $200 for a permit to Scheme, the licensee whose card imprint is on undertake work of a value of more than $10,000, the contract will be taken to be a party to the and are required to complete a 15-hour course of contract even if he or she did not sign the instruction to provide the knowledge of the contract. This amendment will ensure that a processes and requirements to operate as an licensee who lends a licence card for the owner/builder. Notwithstanding these outlays, purpose of imprinting contracts can be held liable the authority presently cannot direct the for the completion or rectification of the work rectification of the work performed by a licensed covered by the contract. contractor unless there is a written contract Presently, the authority cannot order the between the parties that specifically provides, rectification of defective work or the completion firstly, that the contractor will be responsible to of work if it was performed by an unlicensed ensure that the work is properly carried out; and, person. Similarly, the authority cannot issue an secondly, that the work is grossly defective order on a person who caused or directed the through the fault of the contractor. The Bill work to be carried out rather than carried out the removes this limitation on the power of the work personally. authority. Owner/builders who engage licensed contractors will in future have the protection of Legislative Assembly 7933 28 April 1994
Although the authority is educating Building Services Authority could intervene to consumers on the need to deal only with resolve that dispute without that lady having to licensed contractors, there is nevertheless a go through a hearing of some description. That need to protect those who are taken in by the appears to be wishful thinking. That lady was shonks who prey on the gullible. The asked to pay a couple of hundred dollars to have amendment gives the authority significant her case heard, and she received no guarantee additional power to order the rectification or of a satisfactory outcome. In fact, that hearing did completion of work. not achieve a satisfactory resolution to the To illustrate the enormity of the job carried matter, and that lady is in the same predicament out by the Queensland Building Services as she was before the matter was investigated. Authority, I would like to cite a few figures. Since A perusal of the legislation reveals that, if 1 June 1992, the authority has licensed 25 443 the authority is of the opinion that building work people. This represents 21 500 trade contractor is defective or incomplete, it may direct the licences and 3 943 building licences. As at 31 person who carried out the building work to March 1994, there are 39 230 builders or trade rectify that building work within a reasonable contractors licensed in the State of Queensland. period. We will soon discover whether this This figure comprises 21 500 trade contractors legislation has any teeth. I know of cases in which and 17 730 builders. Those figures illustrate that, experienced builders have found it difficult to with the boom in the building industry in have their registration renewed. On the other Queensland, the authority has a large role to play hand, I am aware of builders who pose as in the protection of consumers. They illustrate genuine, honest and reliable operators but who also that the tribunal has a very onerous task in are not doing a satisfactory job. Where do dealing with disputes that arise between builders aggrieved customers go—to their local member, and the consumer. to the ombudsman or to the tribunal? The I believe that the Minister and the authority must have the power to ensure a Government should be commended for the work satisfactory outcome in conflict situations. that has been done in this area. For most people, I wish to outline another problem that may their home is the major expense in their life. They be encountered by consumers—that is, their often pay it off over 20 years. It is a responsibility dealings with owner/builders. The case I am of Government to ensure that the consumers are about to cite dates back a couple of years. The protected. Those who work and save hard to pay couple involved in this case had purchased their off their house do not want to incur a $100,000 home from an owner/builder. They had a builder mortgage only to discover that they are paying carry out some repairs to their home. That builder off something that is worthless. brought to their attention the problems Mr STEPHAN (Gympie) (5.04 p.m.): I rise associated with the home and the fact that the to participate in the debate on the Queensland requirements of the local council had not been Building Services Authority Amendment Bill. adhered to. That couple was also advised by the Because of the number of inquiries that have local council that a plumbing inspection had come through my office, it has become obvious never been carried out. One week prior to the to me that many people are concerned about the settlement, that couple visited the previous service being offered by builders. Those owners and were shown a piece of paper that concerns are increasing rather than diminishing. had been obtained from a builder to say that the For that reason, I welcome this legislation in the house was structurally sound. There is no proof hope that it will rectify some of the problems that that that particular builder had the authority to exist. make such a determination. Apparently, the previous owners paid a fee of $100 for that In his second-reading speech, the Minister documentation. went out of his way to point out that, through its dispute management activities, the authority At the end of the day, the purchaser of that aims to minimise the disputation and, where home was left to carry out the necessary disputes occur, achieve an efficient and rectification work. That problem may appear only equitable resolution. I wish to bring to the incidental to people who are building a $200,000 attention of the House a case in point. An elderly or $300,000 home. However, some people lady had her home built. She left it to the person invest their last cent in their home only to who was carrying out the work to be honest and discover that they have been ripped off. In this do a proper job. She expected that she would case, that couple received no relief from the receive what she paid for. However, that turned authority. One would have expected the out not to be the case. The work was authority to stand up for the battler. unsatisfactory, and a conflict situation I referred this case to the Minister. In his developed. I would have thought that the letter to me, the Minister stated in part— 28 April 1994 7934 Legislative Assembly
"Officers of the Queensland Building Mr BEATTIE: I will take that interjection. Services Authority have advised all legal Indeed, the master of boredom, but as well, the requirements under the provisions of the master of trivia. The trivia detailed by the member Queensland Building Services Authority Act for Aspley shows clearly that there are problems have been met with regard to . . . the at the Queensland Building Services Authority property." that need action by the Minister and confirm the All right, all legal requirements had been met, but need for this legislation. The contribution by the that does not mean that the lady had not been member for Aspley was a powerful argument for ripped off by the fact that the owner/builder had the introduction of this legislation and action by found someone in the district to sign a piece of the Minister. It more than amply demonstrated paper which said it was structurally sound when the need for the legislation. that was not the case. So it goes a lot further. Let us look at the sort of trivia raised by the What I am saying is that it is the younger people member. Clearly, the honourable member was and the older people who are the ones who are briefed by a member of the board. disadvantaged. Currently, particularly with the Mr J. N. Goss: I wasn't briefed by anyone. growth in the building industry, it is not going to go away. As I said earlier, I welcome the Mr BEATTIE: That is what the honourable legislation, I welcome the thrust behind it, but I member tells me. want to be sure that the thrust does carry with it I will deal with the trivia he raised. Because the authority for which it is designed and the he has this pent up desire to be James Bond, he ability to be able to rectify the small problems, not made a great point about staff spying, some only the larger problems that exist for those with minor computer hiccup, meetings in car parks, the multimillion-dollar investments. favours from relatives, getting jobs because of Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central) who you know, and an officer working only on (5.12 p.m.): I rise this afternoon to support the Monday and Friday. He went on and on. He gave Queensland Building Services Authority a real dissertation of Trivial Pursuit. The Amendment Bill of 1994. A little earlier, I could honourable member has missed an opportunity have been forgiven for thinking that I may not in life. He should redesign Trivial Pursuit. It would have had an opportunity to do so because of the be a winner and he would make himself a lot of abuse of the Standing Orders by the National money. He is indeed the master of Trivial Pursuit. Party. It was a little bit like General Custer leading The need for this legislation was more than amply the troops into battle again. displayed by the member for Aspley, and I thank him for it. Mr J. H. Sullivan interjected. One matter raised by the honourable Mr BEATTIE: I do not know about all that, member is worthy of expansion. He talked about but a member does not need to be around here Hans Heilpern and "the job". Hans Heilpern was for too long to realise that matters of privilege the chairman of the commercial tribunal in New cannot be raised until the debate is finalised. South Wales. Let me put the record straight Mr J. N. Goss: Why don't you address the about the position he held. He was asked to Bill? come to Queensland for six months. His contract Mr BEATTIE: I actually will talk about the was extended by another six months, and when Bill, which is a bit more than some Opposition that ran out, he left. He did not want to continue, members did. The honourable member might so he declined an extension. Any suggestions regret challenging me to do that. Before I get to to the contrary by the honourable member for my contribution, I will deal with some of the points Aspley simply are not true. Not only did we hear a made by the member for Aspley. The member for lot of trivia, a lot of it was inaccurate trivia. Of Aspley is actually not a bad person, but when it course that does not matter in a game of Trivial comes to his contribution tonight, he really has to Pursuit, but it does matter in a contribution to a be described as the master of trivia. He spoke for debate in this Chamber. The honourable almost 50 minutes. He was trying to follow that member ought to go back and have another great leader of his, Santo Santoro, and use the look. whole hour available to him. He did not quite Another matter raised by the honourable make it. member in his all-embracing contribution was the Mr J. N. Goss: I didn't want to take it away composition of the board. He should look at the from Santo. explanatory notes for clause 7, which— Mr BEATTIE: With a bit more tuition, the " . . . provides for a reduction in the size of honourable member might get there. the Board by reducing the number of representatives of the building industry from Mr Welford: The master of boredom. three to two and omitting the representative Legislative Assembly 7935 28 April 1994
of licensed building designers and the two Just under 1.8 million or 65 percent of non-voting members in the General this projected growth will come from Manager and the Director of the Home interstate (52 percent) or overseas migration Building Advisory Service." (13 percent) with the balance being the The honourable member talked about some result of natural increase. sort of club, which he tried to say was run by the The number of births is expected to Minister's office. He should look at the provisions increase by more than 50 percent from the of the Bill. They also provide a role for the current 45,000 per annum to 68,000 per Building Industry Sub-Contractors Organisation annum in 2031, while the annual number of of Queensland in the nomination of persons to deaths is expected to more than double represent licensed trade contractors. from approximately 20,000 to 50,700 per When he was making his denigratory remarks annum. about certain aspects of the Bill, the honourable Mr Mackenroth said the report also member missed the impact of clause 7. projected changes to the traditional picture The Minister for Housing and Local of an average Queensland household due Government recently released some figures to factors such as an ageing population. about growth in the south-east corner of Under the medium series projection Queensland. I want to refer to them briefly the median age of the State's population is because they highlight the need to get this expected to increase from 32 years in 1991 authority operating correctly. There will continue to approximately 40 years by 2031." to be significant growth in the housing industry, The ageing section of the community will and there will also be a growth in the rejuvenation need particular protection from the authority if of existing houses. People such as myself and they get involved in building work, as quite a my family, who live in the inner suburbs, are number will. I will not say anything more about among may people who are renovating houses. those figures, except to highlight the fact that by In most of the suburbs in my electorate, such as the year 2001 it is projected that there will be Windsor, Wilston, The Grange, Newmarket, Red significant population growth in a number of Hill, Kelvin Grove, Herston, Bowen Hills, Spring council areas such as Maroochy, Caboolture, Hill, the Valley, Newstead, New Farm, and in the Redlands, Pine Rivers, Caloundra, Moreton and city, major work is going into the renovation of Toowoomba, and not just in the inner south-east beautiful old colonial homes and beautiful old corner. There will obviously be major growth in Queenslanders. areas such as Albert, the Gold Coast and, of Mr J. N. Goss: Are you doing it yourself? course, Brisbane itself. If honourable members Mr BEATTIE: Some of it, yes, but only look at those figures, they will get a clear minor matters. I would use a registered builder appreciation of the problems associated with that and I would feel comfortable if he had a Gold rapid growth and the desperate need to get the Card. I would feel very comfortable about that authority operating effectively in order to address because I have faith in the system. I am not a the problems that have existed for some time. nitpicker, so it does not worry me to have The nitpicking member for Aspley has someone else do the job. In addition to the highlighted the need for change. renovation and rejuvenation of our wonderful The amendments to the Queensland heritage homes in the inner suburbs, there is an Building Services Authority Act will strengthen enormous growth in the number of new homes. the authority's commitment to licensees by If honourable members look at what the ensuring that unlicensed persons derive no Honourable Minister for Housing and Local benefit by failing to obtain a licence. That is Government had to say in a press release quite fundamental and extremely important. recently, they will understand why it is so Mr J. N. Goss: It doesn't happen. important to get this legislation right and get this Mr BEATTIE: The honourable member authority right. It stated— should listen; he might learn something. The Act "Based on a medium series of now prevents the authority from directing projections Queensland's population could anyone other than a licensee to rectify defective grow to more than 5.6 million people by the or incomplete work. The amendment to section year 2031. 72 of the Act in particular will allow the authority to . . . direct an unlicensed person to rectify defective or incomplete work, thereby ensuring that a This growth of 2.7 million represents a person may not avoid responsibility for defective 91 percent increase in population between work by failing to obtain a licence. If an 1991 and 2031. unlicensed person is directed to rectify, that 28 April 1994 7936 Legislative Assembly person will be required to engage a licensed owner/builders, who are referred to in clause 15; contractor to carry out the work. That overcomes the immediate cancellation and suspension of most of the problems raised by the honourable licences, which is dealt with in clauses 17 and 31; member. The authority will take disciplinary action major domestic building work contracts, which against any unlicensed person who fails to are dealt with in clause 20; and the rectification of comply with a direction, in addition to seeking a building work, which is mentioned in clause 24. substantial fine for failure to obtain a licence as All of those changes will enhance consumer required under the Act. protection, which is something of which all Mr J. N. Goss: They've usually got no members of this House should be very money. supportive. I endorse the contribution made by the honourable member for Gladstone, who I Mr BEATTIE: I have not finished. The believe has seized upon one of the major amendment to section 71 ensures that the benefits of this legislation. His contribution was authority may recover an insurance claim from very sound, and I hope that all members of the anyone, including an unlicensed person, if the Opposition will read it. actions of the person caused the claim against the insurance scheme to be made. A number of In the upcoming financial year, the authority amendments to the provisions dealing with the will concentrate on enhancing its service to all tribunal will assist licensees to obtain quick and consumers. The principal features of this focus effective dispute resolution. An example is the include the decentralisation of functions to amendment to section 99, which allows a tribunal regional offices to ensure timely service to to refer an application for review of an authority consumers and the establishment of a head decision to mediation in an attempt to achieve a office customer service centre. negotiated settlement without the necessity of In my few remaining moments, let me conducting a full hearing. reiterate the need for this legislation and the I turn to a number of other matters which I benefits it will bring to consumers. I congratulate believe are relevant, in a supportive sense, to the Minister on bringing this legislation before this legislation. In the area of dispute the House. Again, I refer to the contribution of resolution—the authority has received the honourable member for Aspley—his notification of 5 028 building disputes since 1 nitpicking exercise. July 1992. Approximately 80 per cent have been Mr J. N. Goss: If I hadn't spoken before finalised after investigation by the authority. Year- you, you would have been lost for words. to-year figures indicate that approximately 3 300 Mr BEATTIE: I have another couple of building disputes will be referred to the authority hours. However, seeing that we have all had a during 1993-94. This represents a substantial rugged week and it is now 5.25 p.m., I will be a increase in the number of building disputes little more considerate of my fellow members referred to the authority over recent years. That than was the honourable member during his 45- is another reason why we have to get this minute contribution and not take his legislation right. For example, the average interjections. I have better things to do. The number of building disputes referred to the point is that the honourable member for Aspley authority over the past five years is 2 072. can nitpick as much as he likes, but at the end of On the subject of insurance—since 1 July the day, despite all the ruckus that has gone on, 1992, a total of 1 647 insurance claims have the authority needs resolution, certainty and a been approved. The value of these claims totals direction that will enable it to look after $7,784,875, which has directly assisted consumers. The legislation that the Honourable consumers with the rectification or completion of the Minister has brought before the House will defective or incomplete work. The authority is in achieve that—not the honourable member's the process of extending the statutory insurance nitpicking exercise. scheme to specified forms of work performed by Mr LESTER (Keppel) (5.26 p.m.): I am a trade contractors. This will enhance the little concerned that the board may not quite authority's consumer protection function by have the teeth that we would like it to have to be ensuring that consumers need not pursue able to make decisions. I believe that the private legal remedies to have certain defective bureaucrats will be the ultimate decision makers or incomplete work by trade contractors rectified. and policy makers. Recently, in the Capricorn I endorse the comments of the honourable Coast area there were a number of unlicensed member for Gladstone, who spent a builders who had come up from the south. They considerable amount of time during his were creating quite a bit of havoc in the area. contribution referring to the consumer They were moving in, offering cheaper prices perspective and the benefits to consumers of and getting many people in. The local builders these amendments. He referred to were left in a dreadful situation, because they Legislative Assembly 7937 28 April 1994 had to pay workers' compensation and continue. I understand that he has been back to everything else, and they could not compete the authority once since then, because the staff with the unlicensed builders. I contacted the there wanted to give him a going-away party. authority and suggested that they send That was after he left. That is the only time he has inspectors up there as a matter of urgency. I am been back there. pleased to report that inspectors did go up there, As to the third person, the director-general and they have dealt with a number of those of my department—the board and the authority problems. That makes life a bit more livable for report directly to me as the Minister. They do not those experienced builders who have raised operate through the department, through my their families and done a very good job in that director-general or anybody else in the area. department. The reporting structure is very clear. When a person has a problem with a house It is direct to me and in no way has he any being built—and unfortunately there have been responsibility for that. Mr Person, I understand, many of them—there still appear to be some has been over to the board and met with board. I delays. It is probably not easy to fix many of those think he has been there on two occasions in four delays, because we have to let the law take its and a half years. That is the sort of person that course. But I merely alert the Parliament to the the honourable member is trying to portray as in fact that we have more to do in those areas. I some way being part of this boys' clubs that is support everybody who is trying to get a better operating. The fourth person whom he deal for the average person who is trying to get a mentioned is still in the employ of the authority. I home built. think that it is a disgrace that the honourable Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH member mentioned him in this place. It is obvious (Chatsworth—Minister for Housing, Local that Mr Ray Potts, whom the honourable member Government and Planning) (5.28 p.m.), in reply: I mentioned, is now the only member of the boys' thank all members, except the Opposition club. Obviously he is very lonely when he goes spokesperson, for their support of the to his meetings by himself. He has 100 per cent legislation. The Opposition spokesperson did confidence in the new registrar general manager, not quite get to the point of whether or not he whom the honourable member himself said was supported the Bill. He mainly dragged out a doing a good job. Mr Miller, the new registrar whole list of claims that he has made before and general manager, informs me that he has 100 per raised minor, petty matters. He simply knocks cent confidence in Mr Potts. In the two years that and knocks and knocks. he has been working there, Mr Potts has put a lot of his life into making the Building Services As I listened to the honourable member Authority work and ensuring that we get an speak, I thought to myself that I would not like to authority that is able to operate in the best be somebody who was working for the Building interests of the building industry and consumers Services Authority and who heard the way in in Queensland. The honourable member made which he slighted almost every staff member those remarks because some disgruntled over there. It was unbelievable that those people have provided him with a whole load of comments came from a politician. He painted rubbish, which he did not bother to check. He those people with a very big, broad brush. He got up and said it because it was a great thing to said that they were lazy and that they cheated on say. To say those sorts of things about their flexitime. He said those types of things individuals does not help the honourable without specifically referring to anyone. He member in any way. simply painted everybody there with the one big, broad brush. That is a terrible thing to do—to I would like to thank the other members who come in here under parliamentary privilege and spoke on this Bill for their support of the say that. amendments to the legislation. I would also like to thank them for the support that they have The member then spoke about a so-called given to the staff who I think are doing a very boys' club operating at the Building Services good. It is a very difficult area in which to work and Authority. When I challenged him to tell me who it they have shown to me that they are people who consists of, he said that it consists of a person are prepared to work hard to do the type of job called Rod Richards, who is a former general that is necessary to protect the people in the manager of the authority. I have never met Mr industry and the consumers. Richards. I do not know him. I understand that he has not been near the authority since he left, but It has been necessary to amend this Act he is supposedly a member of the boys' club that because of the fact that the board as it exists is operating. today is not operating in the way that it was meant to operate. What we want to see and, I am sure, Then there is Mr Hans Heilpern, whose what the building industry wants to see is a board contract ran out last year and who did not wish to 28 April 1994 7938 Legislative Assembly that operates efficiently and in the best interests '(other than section 58 (2) and (3))'." of the industry. I thank members for their This is a machinery amendment which support. corrects a misinterpretation of the drafting Motion agreed to. instruction but does not alter the thrust of the amendment that is actually in the Bill. Committee Amendment agreed to. Hon. T. M. Mackenroth (Chatsworth— Clause 18, as amended, agreed to. Minister for Housing, Local Government and Clauses 19 to 33, as read, agreed to. Planning) in charge of the Bill. Schedule, as read, agreed to. Clauses 1 to 6, as read, agreed to. Bill reported, with amendments. Clause 7— Mr MACKENROTH (5.35 p.m.): I move the following amendment— Third Reading "At page 6, line 28, 'Subcontractors Bill, on motion of Mr Mackenroth, by leave, Organisation of Queensland'— read a third time. omit, insert— 'Specialist Contractors Organisation of Qld STATUTE LAW (MISCELLANEOUS Inc'." PROVISIONS) BILL The purpose of this amendment is to correct Second Reading the name of the Specialist Contractors Debate resumed from 14 April (see Organisation of Queensland Incorporated. p. 7558). Amendment agreed to. Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer) (5.38 p.m.): Clause 7, as amended, agreed to. The Bill that has been introduced into the House Clauses 8 to 13, as read, agreed to. by the Leader of the House is known as an omnibus Bill—it covers a large number Acts, Insertion of new clause— repeals a number of Acts and is supposed to be Mr MACKENROTH (5.35 p.m.): I move non-controversial in nature. This Bill amends 53 the following amendment— Acts of Parliament and repeals another 19. It is a "At page 9, after line 12— very large Bill; it has 133 pages. To be quite insert— honest, I have not pulled out those 53 Acts that are being amended plus the 19 that are being 'Omission of s 40 (List of licensees) repealed to check them all thoroughly. I accept '13A. Section 40— the word of the Honourable Leader of the House omit.'." when he says that it is an omnibus Bill. This amendment removes the requirement I query why three of those Acts are being of the Building Services Authority to prepare a amended in this piece of legislation. The Acts list of contractors and have it published in the Interpretation Act is the first one amended, then Government Gazette. It costs the authority about the Queensland Law Society Act and then the $30,000 to publish the list. We have considered Trust Accounts Act. I query this because those it and decided that consumers can telephone Acts are the responsibility of the Minister for the authority. The information is available from Justice and Attorney-General. I notice on the the authority and anyone who wishes to access it business paper for the House the Justice and can access it. To spend $30,000 to have it Attorney-General (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, published in the Government Gazette on one which does exactly the same thing to the various Saturday a year achieves nothing other than Acts that are under the responsibility of the wasting money. Minister for Justice and Attorney-General. We know that the Minister for Justice and Amendment agreed to. Attorney-General has the largest share of the New clause 13A, as read, agreed to. Acts to be administered by any Minister. It Clauses 14 to 17, as read, agreed to. escapes me why they are put into this omnibus Clause 18— Bill—that is, the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill—and not into the Justice and Mr MACKENROTH (5.36 p.m.): I move Attorney-General (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. the following amendment— Mr Mackenroth: It is a combination of Bills "At page 11, line 17, after ‘Part’— which can cover matters that we would not cover insert— in the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Legislative Assembly 7939 28 April 1994
Bill. You can get a controversial matter, which we introduced into the House and it has not been do not touch—— debated—— Mr FITZGERALD: Normally, it could be Mr Mackenroth interjected. explained that the Justice and Attorney-General Mr FITZGERALD: I do not think that (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill is not anyone believes that that piece of legislation is non-controversial, anyway. I would argue quite going to be debated. Obviously, the Minister strongly that those three amendments to which I who introduced it had second thoughts about it, refer should have been included in that or there might have been representations made legislation, which my colleague the member for to him. However, the Minister did not seek leave Indooroopilly will be speaking to as well. to withdraw that Bill. The Government can do that The bulk of those amendments to the Acts in Parliament. In fact, I indicate that sometimes are really just changing the wording from "Order legislation is passed, then the Government, in its in Council" to "by regulation". There has been a wisdom, decides that it will not proclaim that change in the way the regulations are now legislation, even though it has received assent. administered. Therefore, a large number of This clause is not truly a Henry VIII clause but those amendments just change words in Acts. I it allows a regulation to postpone a law that has note that one of the amendments is removing a already been passed through Parliament. It is not Henry VIII provision, which allows an Act to be truly a Henry VIII clause. Such a clause allows a amended by a statutory instrument. In other regulation to amend an Act. But this is not an Act words, the regulation could amend the Act. We because it has not been proclaimed. However, it still have some of those provisions, but we know allows the wishes of the Parliament to be put off that it is not good parliamentary practice to have for another 12 months by regulation. The Henry VIII clauses contained in Acts. Parliament can pass a Bill—— The first provision in the Bill relates to the Mr Mackenroth interjected. Acts Interpretation Act 1954. That might be of interest to the House because it refers to a Mr FITZGERALD: I agree with the proposed law. When a Bill that is passed by the Minister on one issue—that it is not a Henry VIII House receives royal assent, it becomes law. clause. However, when the Parliament passes a When it has not been proclaimed, I am not quite Bill through this House to become an Act and sure what happens at present. I know that a Bill become law, I can state that it is the wish of this can be given vice-regal assent, and the Parliament that that does become the law, Government of the day may decide not to have it whether the Opposition likes it or not, or agrees proclaimed. The Bill can just sit around after it has with it or not. That is the decision of the received assent. If it does not receive assent, Parliament. Then the Executive Government how long does the Bill stay there? I presume that, decides before it receives royal assent that it will if it is not proclaimed, it stays there forever until it not have it proclaimed. Therefore, we have the is repealed. little battle between the Parliament and Executive Government. That is the law of the The amendment of the Acts Interpretation land and the Parliament—— Act states that within a year of the assent day, the Act shall be taken to be proclaimed the next day. Mr Mackenroth: It is the bureaucracy. It is In other words, the Act automatically comes into not Executive Government, it is bureaucracy. force. However, by regulation, we may extend Mr FITZGERALD: I know that the that for another 12 months, and then it is Honourable Minister—and I know that he is an proclaimed. So in other words, we have another honourable man—would blame all the problems 12 months to use Parliament to have that Bill with regard to getting legislation passed through withdrawn. Parliament and enacted on the bureaucracy. I am Mr Mackenroth: It makes Government a little bit kinder to public servants. Sometimes, I actually—— believe that the driver behind the wheel has to steer it in the right direction. However, I will not Mr FITZGERALD: They have to review speak to all the various Acts that are amended by them. They cannot leave them sitting around. I this Bill, because I do not believe that I need the understand that. Quite often, legislation is opportunity to speak to all of them. As I said, the introduced into this House and it sits there a long Opposition will be supporting the legislation that time. I think Bill No. 7 on the business paper is is before the House. the Parliamentary Legislation Amendment Bill, which was introduced on 12 November 1992. I Mr WELFORD (Everton) (5.46 p.m.): It is do not think that that one is going to be debated my pleasure to support the Statute Law hotly for some time. So if a piece of legislation is (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. As the previous speaker indicated, this Bill provides for a number of amendments to various pieces of legislation. I 28 April 1994 7940 Legislative Assembly would like to focus on just a few of them. I refer A number of amendments are made to the firstly to the Acts Interpretation Act. The insertion Reprints Act 1992. I have a particular interest in of a new section 15DA seems to me to be an the Reprints Act because I have raised with the eminently appropriate provision to facilitate the Office of Parliamentary Counsel on a number of effect of legislation which otherwise has been occasions—and I know that the Office of passed by the Parliament but has not been Parliamentary Counsel is responding, in my view, proclaimed. This provision enables legislation to fairly diligently to my representations in this come into operation automatically after a certain regard—the matter of amendments, and quite period, namely, 12 months. Similarly, the voluminous amendments to Bills. Sometimes, provision also allows that—— one has to be a jigsaw puzzle expert to get to the Mr FitzGerald: That's 12 months after bottom of what the law is in certain areas. We royal assent. have to have reprints of Acts that update the law so that we have a complete consolidation of the Mr WELFORD: That is correct. As the law up to the date that we are wanting to consider member for Lockyer says, that is 12 months after it. assent. These provisions, of course, apply only to Acts enacted after 1 January next year. So When in legal practice, at times I bought an they do not apply, in particular, to this amending Act of Parliament from the Government Printer. I legislation. usually got something consolidated to about 1962, and about 15 amending Acts. There were Mr FitzGerald: How many are lying around bits and pieces all over the shop. As the member that haven't been proclaimed; do you know? for Nerang said, to some extent there is still a Mr WELFORD: That is a good question. measure of difficulty in that regard. That is There is no doubt that, if not whole Acts, precisely the point that I am making in my certainly there are a number of amending representations to the Office of Parliamentary provisions of Acts that have been passed Counsel and the Government Printer. We now through this House and have been given assent have legislation on a computer database. In the but, because of proclamation provisions, have not too distant future, it should be possible to not been proclaimed. This provision more than say to the Government Printer, "I would like a anything else will simply tidy up the statute book. copy of a certain Act, fully consolidated to within Of course, this amending legislation has the the past couple of weeks." This goal is very close same purpose. to being achieved, but the mechanics are not The amendments to the Friendly Societies altogether easy. I assume that it will take some Act are interesting because, over recent years, a time to load information onto a computer. number of friendly societies have got into quite It should be possible to have an Act printed serious financial difficulty, not least of all because out straight away. For longer Bills, 24-hours' there has been a good deal of fraudulent activity notice may be needed for it to be printed for going on in some, including one in Brisbane. collection the next day. Certainly, anything that These matters have been the subject of police can be done via the reprint legislation and the investigation and investigation by officers of what Statutory Instruments Reprint Act to facilitate the was formerly the Corporate Affairs Commission provision of consolidated versions of Acts and and which is now known as the Australian regulations of Parliament is a positive step Securities Commission. Amongst other things, forward. My understanding is that these there have been a number of friendly societies amendments are designed to progress that whose assets have, in one way or another, action. ceased to be available for the liquidation of those The Stamp Act is to Queensland what the companies. It seems to me to make sense that Income Tax Assessment Act is to the Federal we provide in the Friendly Societies Act for a system. It is a very complex, difficult, and, in simpler way of deregistering or dissolving some respects, very poorly drafted piece of companies that are defunct and where no assets Queensland law. When we first came into office, are involved. Obviously, issues relating to the there was some discussion in the Treasury distribution of assets for those friendly societies Department about reviewing our State taxing are no longer relevant if, in fact, there are no laws, in particular the Stamp Act, to see whether assets to distribute. So that amendment simply they could be brought up to date and made more brings the powers of our State regulatory comprehensible. Any measure that can be taken agencies with respect to friendly societies into to subject the Stamp Act to the rigours of plain line with the powers of the Australian Securities English—and I am not necessarily suggesting Commission with respect to corporations that this is one of them—would have my generally. wholehearted support. Legislative Assembly 7941 28 April 1994
This amendment is designed to give effect December 1991. It amended the definition of to changes in the practice of the Stamp Duties prescribed forms to mean "a form approved by Office for the lodging of documents. As I the chief executive", and the section 22 understand it, it is a change in practice which has regulation omitted Schedule 1 from the 1988 been brought about by changes in the Titles regulations which, as a result, meant that no Office procedures that are currently being longer were forms required to be part of the brought into effect. Recently, I attended a Law regulations and could be approved by the chief Society seminar which addressed the changes in executive officer alone. This put unfettered Titles Office practice. The issue was addressed power in the hands of the bureaucracy to issue by the new Director of the Titles Office, Mr Loder. or amend prescribed forms. What is more, there While there will necessarily be some teething is no way that this procedure has any form of problems in that regard, the general thrust of the accountability at all. There is not even any reforms to simplify documentation within the requirement for these changes to be published, Titles Office and to computerise it seem to me to not even in the Government Gazette. be eminently positive. These amendments to It was purely by chance, though not a the Stamp Act are designed to give effect to, and requirement, that the Lands Department supplement, those changes. published these amendments in the In relation to the drafting of this Government Gazette which in turn was picked up Bill—members will note that, in addition to the by the Subordinate Legislation Committee. That substantive provisions of the Bill that members committee had the following to say about this have before them, at the end of each section practice— Explanatory Notes are included in the document. "It was difficult to comprehend how the As members will note, these Explanatory Notes preservation of the rights and liberties of do not form part of the Bill upon which we are individuals could be guaranteed under this deliberating. It does seem to be very helpful that new process." the Explanatory Notes are contained within the single-bound document before members for The Subordinate Legislation Committee in turn their consideration. That is not always contacted the Premier's Department about this convenient with stand-alone Bills. But when issue, and this is a summary of the Premier's there are combinations of amendments in position on the subject— miscellaneous provisions Bills such as this, it "The practice is in accordance with seems to be a very helpful way of presenting the Government policy that forms be excluded material for the consideration of the House. I from legislation and regulations unless it is record my appreciation to the Minister and the necessary to do so for evidentiary and Office of Parliamentary Counsel for presenting related purposes. the Bill in this form for our consideration tonight. It is true that approved forms are not Sitting suspended from 5.56 to 7.30 p.m. part of the regulation and accordingly are Mr CONNOR (Nerang) (7.30 p.m.): I rise to not subject to tabling on the Legislative speak on the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Assembly." Provisions) Bill, and in particular the amendments Further, that advice stated— to the Statutory Instruments Act 1992 and that "This means that there is considerable part that relates to forms. An issue that is very additional work in the preparation of the much at the heart of regulatory reform is the regulations every time a change to a form is issue of forms associated with regulations. As required. The regulations concerned must many members will be aware, public use forms be amended. Consequences have been traditionally have been included as a Schedule to that forms prescribed by regulations are very regulations associated with most Acts. In other much out of date. Greater flexibility is gained words, if there are forms to be used to gather the by providing for the approval of forms in necessary information for compliance with reliance of Section 26 of the Statutory regulations, those forms were included in those Instruments Act." regulations and, by their inclusion in regulations, were subject to tabling in this House and The advice stated further— disallowance. ". . . prescribed forms add unnecessary As we saw in December 1991, with a very detail to the Statute Book and impede the convenient and very veiled form of words, the updating and ready availability of Lands Department was able to change by Queensland legislation." regulation the Lands Regulations. That veiled The Premier is saying that this level of change was put through in section 5 of the accountability impedes flexibility. It is too slow, Lands Legislation Amendment Regulation on 31 too cumbersome and too much like hard work. 28 April 1994 7942 Legislative Assembly
The Premier forgets that he came to power on register—and that is how the previous system the promise of accountability. effectively worked—is not good enough. By the Let us have a closer look at the argument forms being required to be in regulation, there that the Premier is using for the lack of was automatically a register of all forms that accountability. Firstly, irrespective of which way carried the weight of law. As a result of the lack of this process is undertaken, irrespective of a requirement for these forms to have any form of whether forms are included in regulations or not, accountability, for there to be any way in which they still have to be drafted, changes have to be the public can be certain that a form carries the made, and hopefully some form of consultation weight of law, it means that at any time in the and scrutiny is gone through. That happens future forms can be drawn up and, if necessary, if either way. What is the additional requirement they are challenged, backdated. It takes only an that this level of accountability would entail? It internal memorandum from the chief executive of would entail this document, this form, being a department to legitimise them, to give them the passed over to the Parliamentary Counsel for force of law. scrutiny. What would this form of accountability This gives a total unfettered power to the entail? What exactly does the Parliamentary bureaucracy to cover its backside. It gives Counsel do? The Parliamentary Counsel checks complete power to the bureaucracy to call on any whether or not these forms would in fact be member of the public to fill in any form at any time consistent with the regulations that they fall that the bureaucracy sees fit. That is the potential within. Is this an unnecessary level of scrutiny? of the changes to the system of public use Certainly not! forms. A number of members may be asking, "So The whole point of the Parliamentary what? What is so important about a few forms?" Counsel is to ensure that at some time in the Forms are the way in which the bureaucracy future there is not a court challenge to the validity demands information from the public; the way it of the forms that this new process has potentially builds up a file on individuals. It is the way in allowed to occur—basically, to ensure that the which the bureaucracy obtains private and bureaucracy is not overstepping the authority personal information from members of the public. that the Parliament has given it. What is the The bureaucracy says, "Fill out this form, or you additional requirement to allow these forms will not get a licence. Fill out this form or you will accountability and to be included in subordinate not get a permit. Fill out this form or you will not legislation? It would be for them to be tabled in be recognised in whatever." With the advent of Parliament. By tabling them in Parliament, the computers, there is more and more of a threat to whole Parliament and hence the public would the individual privacy of members of the public. become aware of these changes. They would What else does this do? It allows the also be subject to a disallowance motion if the bureaucracy to at any time bring into existence regulations were unacceptable to the an additional form that takes more bureaucrats to Opposition. I believe that inclusion in regulation administer, more money to control and print and is the minimum—the essential level of more staff in private enterprise to complete. Ask accountability. any small business person what they think of Another inescapable fact is that, under the Government forms and the time it takes to new arrangements, the general public cannot be complete them. Try to explain to them that we are guaranteed knowledge of these forms—subject removing any brake to prevent the bureaucracy to the amendment to which I will turn in a from creating more. Forms are the public face of moment—because under the present system Government red tape. Ask a small business there is no guarantee that the Government will person to cite an example of red tape, and forms gazette these forms. If there is no register, if will be at the top of the list. there is no way of determining what is a legitimate Under the Government's new system, the form; there is no way of telling what is not a forms do not even have to include only the legitimate form. No professional, no request for information that is mandatory. They independent consultant, can tell one whether a can, as determined by the Subordinate form is legitimate or not. One must rely totally on Legislation Committee, request additional what the bureaucracy does or does not tell one. information that could "assist the process". I This means that the bureaucracy could pull suggest that a bureaucrat could argue that any any form it wishes out of a locker at any time and information could assist the process. Here, we require that form to be filled in. If at some later have the unfettered power of the bureaucracy, date its legitimacy is questioned, a stroke of the totally without accountability, to be able to dream pen and it is made legitimate! The requirement up new forms. These forms can require members for legitimate forms, not to have any form of of the public to provide any personal information accountability, not to have some form of that is felt appropriate at the time. Legislative Assembly 7943 28 April 1994
This one little change to the standard of enforce the law against a member of one's own accountability of regulations in Queensland family is often a thankless task, but it is one that is represents one of biggest threats to individual undertaken assiduously by many Aborigines and privacy and freedom ever seen in Queensland in Torres Strait Islanders in their respective recent years. This one boring change to the communities. Unfortunately, there is a fairly high system will give the bureaucracy what it has been turnover amongst the Aboriginal and Torres waiting for for a long time—that is, the Strait Islander people who take on these unchallengeable right to private, personal positions, because they do come under information. considerable pressure. The amendment that we are considering On a numerous occasions, I have made does solve some of the problems. However, it representations to various Police Ministers about has been gelded. It has had its teeth removed. It the need to look at the role of Aboriginal and does not invalidate forms if they do not comply Torres Strait Islander police officers with a view to with this amendment. The relevant section, upgrading those roles and possibly eventually which is the amendment to section 47 (8), bringing them under the jurisdiction of the states— Queensland Police Service. There is certainly a "Failure to comply with this section need for more training for those Aboriginal and does not affect a form's validity." Torres Strait Islander police officers. There is a need for more resources; there is a need for All these things can still occur, even after this police accommodation for them; and there is a amendment, because whether the bureaucracy need for resources for vehicles, uniforms and complies with this amendment is irrelevant to the various other basic requirements that are validity of the forms. necessary for them to carry out their functions in This is simply a PR exercise. It has no teeth. their respective communities. As I say, they do It represents only more red tape to try to deal with perform a valuable role in many communities in the fact that the basic level of accountability has assisting officers of the Queensland Police been removed. The position of the Opposition Service, and I think that needs to be recognised. on forms is very clear. We will reinstitute the The indemnification from liability for tort requirement for them to be included in which is provided by these amendments is also regulations so that the requisite level of important. These community police people must accountability is achieved. be able to undertake their duties in a responsible Mr BREDHAUER (Cook) (7.41 p.m.): I will manner without fear of being held liable, and I speak only very briefly on this Bill tonight. I want welcome the provisions which are included in to comment on one of the amendments to the that respect. Community Services (Aborigines) Act and the While I am on the subject of Aboriginal Community Services (Torres Strait) Act that are communities, I also want to mention just briefly incorporated in this Bill. These particular the report of the Auditor-General on Audits of amendments relate to the indemnification of Local Governments for the financial year ended Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander police 30 June 1993 which was tabled in the Parliament respectively for liability for tort in the operation of yesterday. I refer specifically to the comments their duties. that were made in relation to the audit of the I just want to mention briefly that Aboriginal Aurukun Shire Council. On a number of and Torres Strait Islander police perform a very occasions over the past couple of years, I have valuable role in the Aboriginal and Torres Strait witnessed members of the Opposition stand up Islander communities. It is a role not dissimilar to in this Parliament and outside and rail against the role performed by Aboriginal police liaison Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities officers in a number of towns up and down the for what members opposite regard as their coast of Queensland. However, in the Aboriginal failures in addressing financial accountability communities and Islander communities standards. themselves, those people are often the front- I think it would be a great shame if the tabling line for law enforcement, and they are very of this report in the Parliament and the positive valuable aids to the enforcement of law for the reflection that it makes on the Aurukun Shire members of the Queensland Police Service who Council was allowed to pass without some operate in those communities. positive comment on the record to the effect that The position of an Aboriginal and Torres the Aurukun Shire, with the support of the Local Strait Islander community police person is often a Government Division in this Minister's difficult one because they are often required to department, has taken considerable steps deal with family members or relatives and people towards improving its financial position. The who are well known in the community. To annual report says— 28 April 1994 7944 Legislative Assembly
"Since 1991, when the financial I do have some concern that the difficulties of the Council first came to light, proclamation period could be extended to the the financial position of the Council's maximum two years by the use of a regulation general fund has improved from a net simply because we do not like to see a Henry VIII overdraft of $344,000 at 30 June 1991 to a clause. However, I do not think it is a pure Henry net balance of funds in hand of $613,000 as VIII clause. at 30 June 1993." Mr FitzGerald: It smacks of that same During the same period, the council reduced its philosophy. debenture liability. Its debt program was also Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Maybe we will call it better under control. The Auditor-General noted a Henry VII and a half clause. The other point is, a general improvement. of course, that this applies only to Acts that are I think that it behoves members of this passed after 1 January next year. The simple fact House to pay due recognition to the councillors is that in the passage of any Act, a contrary and the staff of the Aurukun Shire Council. They intention to these provisions that are being are not totally responsible for the administration inserted into the Acts Interpretation Act can be of matters in Aurukun. Aurukun Company made at that time to the effect that this particular Incorporated looks after the administration of the section of the Acts Interpretation Act does not out-stations, and numerous moves are being apply to that Act. So if we know that there is made in that regard. However, I think the efforts going to be a problem with a particular piece of of the Aurukun Shire Council in improving its legislation—for example, the Nature audit position should be recognised in that Conservation Act, which we knew was going to context and that this House should be prepared take a long time to proclaim—in the passage of to give credit where it is due. that primary Act through this place we could Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: (7.46 p.m.): In obviate these particular provisions and there supporting the Statute Law (Miscellaneous would not necessarily be a need to use these Provisions) Bill I, too, wish to concentrate on the regulatory provisions to amend the proclamation Statutory Instruments Act amendments and, in date of the Act. While I am supporting the Bill, I particular, on the contribution that the do have some disquiet about that aspect. honourable member for Nerang made earlier The other thing I would say about the Acts tonight and a contribution that he made outside Interpretation Act is that I do not regard this this place. Before I do so, I would like to comment provision as a minor provision. In fact, it is a fairly very briefly on two other amendments within this important provision, and it is a fairly fundamental Bill which refer to Acts that I use regularly in my change to all legislation in this State from 1 capacity as the Chairman and a member of the January. It is concise, it is appropriate and it is Subordinate Legislation Committee. The first of good, but the Statute Law (Miscellaneous those amendments are those to the Acts Provisions) Bill is supposed to be about minor Interpretation Act, which were covered earlier by matters. In his second-reading speech, the the member for Lockyer in his contribution. Minister said— In some way, I would like to amplify the " . . . the amendments are concise, of a disquiet that has been expressed about this minor nature and non-controversial." particular provision. On the one hand, it is an excellent provision in that it does allow for a I think that, by and large, the amendments are limited period before which a Bill must be non-controversial, and I think they are concise. proclaimed. I think all honourable members However, I do not think they are of a minor nature would agree that those provisions are wonderful in regard to that Act. provisions and that there is legislation, not the I turn now to the Reprints Act. My colleague least of which—— the member for Everton referred to to the Mr FitzGerald interjected. Reprints Act, about which he has had many Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Yes. The Nature discussions with the Parliamentary Counsel. I Conservation Act has been around for some believe the Reprints Act in this State is being time, but not all of it has been proclaimed. I improved by these amendments to ensure that understand the reason for that is that, under its we have a statute book in very fine form. I new title, before proclamation there has to be a commend the Parliamentary Counsel for that Act. management plan for every national park and I turn to the amendments to the Statutory environment park. That Act has been around for Instruments Act as they refer to approved forms. I a long time without all of it being proclaimed. I shall also refer to the member for Nerang. think that in that regard the new provision is an Unfortunately, he had to entertain a group of excellent one. people at a barbecue and could not be here. As he was on his way out, I told him that I was going Legislative Assembly 7945 28 April 1994 to give him a bake, but he said that he did not not directions to the Government to do things, mind. Maybe while he is barbecuing a lamb chop they are ambit claims. They are the sorts of things upstairs, I will give him a bit of a barbecue in here. that an all party group of backbenchers would like Latterly, the member for Nerang has come to see the Government do in a perfect world. upon the issue of public use forms. He has And in a perfect world, the Committee of seized upon this issue as a consequence of the Subordinate Legislation is asking the release of a report by the Committee of Government to employ one extra person. Yet Mr Subordinate Legislation on the subject. This Connor was telling that journalist that evening in this place, and in the newspapers, he bureaucracy building was going on. has made some particularly stupid statements. In In the article Mr Connor claims that the Business Queensland of 18 April 1994, he proposals of the committee put unfettered said— power in the hands of the bureaucracy to issue or amend prescribed forms without those forms ". . . the committee's recommendations being placed under any form of parliamentary smack of 'yes minister' bureaucracy building scrutiny. What has Mr Connor proved by that and will reduce bureaucrats' accountability statement? He has proved that he has not read to parliament and the people of the report or, if he has read it, that he has not Queensland." read the recommendations. He then said— Recommendation 3.3.1 (a) states— "The committee's reforms are 'the most "The committee recommends . . . that a dangerous attack that the Goss Government uniform policy be developed for use by all has made so far on the principle of Government departments with respect to accountability.' " the drafting of public use forms with I take offence at those remarks on behalf of particular reference to privacy, all members of my committee for the following anti-discrimination and equal opportunity reason: the Committee of Subordinate issues. This uniform policy should be Legislation had its attention drawn to the enacted in subordinate legislation." problem of forms quite some time before the The member is ignoring the bottom line of the member for Nerang noticed it, and we expressed committee's recommendations, that is, that there some concern about the practice that had been be guidelines and that there be something to adopted. That practice is quite lawful. There is ensure that the departments do not do the sorts nothing unlawful or wrong with it. In fact, the of things that he was claiming they would do. basic way that people have started removing forms from prescription by regulation and turning According to the article in Business them into forms approved by the chief executive Queensland, Mr Connor said— officer or a nominated officer is by passing a ". . . individuals more easily would become regulation. Since December 1991, regulations to subject to discrimination by public servants." that effect have been passed. I am not talking What an outrageous claim to make, particularly if about just a few regulations; the figure is at least the public servants were to be acting under a 66. On not one of those 66 occasions did the properly implemented set of guidelines for forms member for Nerang pick up that here was the that was enshrined in subordinate legislation. most dangerous attack on accountability in the Goss Government's history. He has been in at Some of the other things that Mr Connor bat on 66 occasions, and he is batting zero. said in that article in Business Queensland he has now had to eat crow on. He would not have The member for Nerang has found made those claims in that article if he had taken something that will get him a headline. It got him a the simple precaution of speaking to me, as headline in Business Queensland. The chairman of the committee, or perhaps to one of journalist, Matthew Carr, contacted me about his own coalition members on that some of the things that Mr Connor had been committee—— talking about, such as bureaucracy building and the like. Apparently Mr Connor had indicated to Mr Ardill: It would spoil a good story. Matthew Carr that the committee's report was Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Yes, it would spoil a going to lead to the establishment of a new forms good story. I am glad that the member for bureaucracy in the public service, whereas a Archerfield mentioned that, because the way sensible reading of it would indicate that if we get that the member for Nerang operates in here is everything we asked for, probably one additional under Maier's law, which states, "If the facts do person will be required. not conform to the theory, they must be In many ways, committee reports in this disposed of." Whatever Mr Connor does, he place must be seen for what they are. They are 28 April 1994 7946 Legislative Assembly does not find out what the facts are, because he requested on a form shall be essential for the does not want to spoil his theory. lawful purposes of that form. That is a draft policy Mr Ardill: He's not the only member who of the Department of Lands. That is how it does that. produces its forms. Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: He is not alone. The Department of Transport has a good Nevertheless, in this instance he has put himself forms unit. It has standards. The report states— in the frame. "Standards—CRIA"— Mr Connor must realise that if the that is, the Communications Research Institute of Government implements the system that has Australia— been recommended to it by the Committee of "guidelines, to which the Forms Subordinate Legislation, not only will there be Management Unit operates ensures that tight control on the information that goes into only information required—including person forms, but there will be less red tape, which is details is gathered and held." what he wants. The departments are self-regulating. The proof This week, in this Parliament, we have seen of that is that in forms under 66 regulations there the champions of free enterprise—the modern has not been one form that Mr Connor has day free traders—begging the dreaded socialist brought into this place to show us some of the Government of this State to regulate on "things" he claims can happen. What "things" whatever we put up. They want tighter can happen? The departments have been regulation. Mr Connor is requesting us to tie honest and decent in their dealing with forms down business users and individual users with under the new system. They have done the right forms that could be out of date—forms that need thing. We do not have one example of their to go through regulation—when it is not the most doing the wrong thing. The Committee of efficient or flexible way to do things and other Subordinate Legislation has simply forms of scrutiny can be provided to ensure that recommended a scheme that will ensure for all things such as privacy, equal opportunity and time that they continue to do the right thing. I discrimination are well catered for. think that Mr Connor's contribution this evening In his final few words, Mr Connor said that he indicates to me that his ability to understand a has committed a future coalition Government to report is as abysmal as his ability of statutory reimplementing the prescription of forms by interpretation, which he demonstrated in here regulation. In that article in Business Queensland the other evening when talking to a disallowance he said— motion. ". . . shadow cabinet has rejected the In conclusion, the provisions in the Statute committee's recommendations." Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill as they relate If that is the case, and if Mr Connor has to the Statutory Instruments Act and those that committed a future coalition Government—and I relate to forms are the first response of the think that will be in the distant future—to Government to a report produced by the returning forms to prescription then the fact is Committee of Subordinate Legislation. We that shadow Cabinet is a particularly stupid welcome this first response. We think that what collective. I believe that the answer here is that has been done is excellent and we look forward the shadow Cabinet, in common with most to future responses. members in this place and probably a great many Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH more people outside this place, have not read (Chatsworth—Leader of the House) (8.02 p.m.), the report. Mr Connor quite clearly has not read in reply: I thank members for their comments. the report—or wants to disregard the bits that he Motion agreed to. does not like because they do not give him an opportunity to have a go at the Government. If the shadow Cabinet is acting on Mr Connor's Committee advice, I suggest that shadow Cabinet—as a Clauses 1 to 5 and Schedules 1 to 3, as collective—should sit down and read the report. read, agreed to. Then they will understand that, should they be adopted, the recommendations of the Bill reported, without amendment. committee will be beneficial. Mr Connor talked about the unchallenged Third Reading right to private information. He has not read the Bill, on motion of Mr Mackenroth, by leave, report. In the report we quote from two different read a third time. departments. A draft policy from the Department of Lands states that all the mandatory information Legislative Assembly 7947 28 April 1994
PERSONAL EXPLANATION portfolio, instead of placing these amendments Hon. D. M. WELLS (Murrumba— in the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Minister for Justice and Attorney-General and Bill. Minister for the Arts) (8.05 p.m.), by leave: I was Each year, many Bills require technical unable to make this personal explanation at the amendments; therefore, I am pleased to see that usual time due to the fact that documents were the point which I have made previously has been not available to me. In the early hours of acknowledged. However, unfortunately, not all yesterday morning, the member for Indooroopilly of the amendments within the Minister's portfolio made a speech in this House in which he alleged are contained within this miscellaneous Bill. that I had told an untruth. He referred to an Three Acts were amended in the Statute Law answer that I gave in question time on 10 (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1994, which December 1993, in which I indicated that I had no passed through this Parliament a few moments knowledge of the constitution of the selection ago. No comment has been made about this fact committee and that it was presided over by the and, therefore, no reason has been given for the director of the relevant division of my course of this action. Perhaps the Minister can department. I indicated that this was so because advise us later about that. it was a purely departmental appointment and The Acts amended in the Statute Law had absolutely nothing to do with me. The (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1994 that come member for Indooroopilly alleged that all this was within his portfolio included the Acts false. I table a memorandum from my acting Interpretation Act 1954, the Queensland Law director-general which indicates clearly that, Society Act 1952 and the Trust Accounts Act indeed, it was all true. He writes— 1973. They are three extremely important pieces ". . . you were not aware of the composition of legislation. I trust that we can look forward to a of the selection committee for the above commitment in the future that will ensure all of position . . . until well after the first question the legislation within the portfolio comes within was asked in Parliament." this miscellaneous provisions Bill. The memorandum makes its clear that it was I want to address a few remarks to the Public clearly a purely bureaucratic appointment. The Trust Office because it is on rare occasions that honourable member's allegations are simply we have amendments to Public Trustee false. legislation and, therefore, I will direct a few words to that area. The Public Trustee amendments are of such character and length in this technical Bill JUSTICE AND ATTORNEY-GENERAL that they run for over 25 pages—from page 7 to (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) BILL page 31—covering recommendations of the Second Reading Public Sector Management Commission in Debate resumed from 14 April (see relation to the office structure; amendments to p. 7552). enable moneys held in the Unclaimed Moneys Fund to be transferred to the Consolidated Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly) Fund; updates in accordance with contemporary (8.06 p.m.): The Justice and Attorney-General drafting style; increased monetary limits and to (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1994, which the clarify a number of the existing provisions—to Opposition will support, now covers eight use that wonderful colloquial term used by the different pieces of legislation within the Justice parliamentary draftsman. One looks forward to and Attorney-General portfolio. Owing to a late the day when we can stop the need to clarify amendment related to the Scartwater Station existing provisions. The 1991-92 Public Trustee Trust Act, the number of pieces of legislation has annual report contains some 69 now risen to eight. I understand that the recommendations from the Public Sector amendment has become necessary because the Management Commission report into the Public Government is desirous of acquiring a Trust Office. Commonwealth Government subsidy of some $1.25m for the Scartwater Station Trust. The Minister indicated that some of these amendments are as a result of that report. At the outset, I want to say how pleased I am However, what the Minister has failed to mention to see that in his second-reading speech the is that the Government has had these Minister has acknowledged the point that I think I amendments for two years or more and failed to have made on several occasions in this House, take a number of them up in that period. It is little namely, that because of the large number of Acts wonder that the community says that the coming within the portfolio there is a need for a Government is interested only in committees, separate annual departmental miscellaneous reports, surveys, investigations and studies. provisions Bill for technical amendments for his However, once things get to that stage, nothing 28 April 1994 7948 Legislative Assembly seems to happen. Certainly, it has taken a long commercialisation in a number of other areas, time for many of these amendments to filter questions must arise in the minds of people as to through the system and to reach the stage at the future of the Public Trust Office—whether it which we are actually amending the Public will continue to head down its current track and Trustee Act. Because of the large number of maintain the services that is provides to the amendments to the Public Trustee Act, which community currently, or whether there will be a has not been amended in recent times, I believe number of changes. I look forward to hearing the that the House could have expected a statement Attorney's comments in relation to those matters. from the Minister on the future of the Public Trust I turn now to the Supreme Court, because Office. This Government talks a great deal about this legislation amends the Supreme Court Act commercialisation of undertakings, and one 1921 as well as the Supreme Court of could have expected an indication of the future Queensland Act 1991. Those Acts cover judges' direction of the Public Trust Office, such as remunerations and conditions. I want to refer whether it is going to continue its free will-making particularly to that matter because, in recent service to all Queenslanders, whether it will times, it has received a good deal of publicity in continue to manage the financial affairs of the daily press. I refer particularly to judges' persons who have disabilities, or whether those travel. I understand that the media obtained functions are going to be given to another group information about judges' travel through freedom in the community. Those issues are talked about of information applications. However, I notice that quite freely within various constituent groups, there was no mention of the travel undertaken by and I am sure that those issues also come to the Appeal Court judges. Both Supreme and District Attorney-General's ears, as they have come to Court judges received detailed analysis of their mine. They are major issues of importance not travel during the last three financial years. only to the future of the Public Trust Office but, Therefore, I ask the Minister to give this House most importantly, to the people of Queensland. the details of the travel arrangements for Appeal The 1992-93 annual report of the Public Court judges. Trust Office, under its community service I have been informed—and the Minister can obligations, sets out the wide range of services correct me if I am wrong—that the Court of that are carried out by the Public Trust Office that Appeal judges receive the same jurisprudence could be affected by any changes in direction allowance as I notice is contained in the judges' that the Government could effect in the future. salaries and allowances tribunal These are the types of issues that stand out in recommendations and reports. However, in the PSMC recommendations. Yet, they remain addition, each year they are allowed one unanswered. They remain unanswered within overseas trip and two trips within Australia. This is this amending legislation and they remain not a new issue; it has been raised in this place unanswered within the Minister's on a number of occasions in the past and, on second-reading speech. one notable occasion, it was raised by the It is fair to say that, in recent years, there has member for Lockyer, Mr FitzGerald, who been a major overhaul of the Public Trust Office. engaged in a fairly heated argument with Mr An inspection of the office would show that staff Milliner. have modern, up-to-date, on-line computer The honourable member asked Mr Milliner, technology to assist with their workload and to when he was the Minister for Justice, a question assist with their everyday paperwork. In a number about this matter. In his reply, Mr Milliner of cases, appointments particularly at branch indicated that there was no secret deal in relation manager level have been given to people from to Appeal Court judges. He was not able to table outside the Public Trust Office. Those the travel arrangements in the House at the time, appointments would have injected new ideas and he went on to say that it was quite wrong and and culture into the office in this time of dramatic improper for the honourable member to drag the change which, I am sure, has been of enormous judiciary into a political brawl. Of course, no-one benefit not only to the office but also to its is trying to drag the judiciary into a political brawl, clients. but I think that the current Minister should clear I think that we need to take note of the up this matter and state the true position so that it dramatic changes that have occurred within the is quite clear in people's minds. Some time ago, Public Trust Office over recent times. I say this the Government disallowed the jurisprudence because the Public Trust Office has met the allowance. When I read the judges' salary tribunal challenge of the growing competition that all report, I saw that it referred to matters such as trustee companies are experiencing currently salaries and superannuation. There was no within the industry. Nevertheless, in view of the mention of travel matters. So I raise that matter Government's beliefs and stated goals of with the Minister so that we might be able to clear Legislative Assembly 7949 28 April 1994 it up once and for all. What are the travel problem is not new in Townsville. I continually arrangements for Appeal Court judges? What are receive complaints from Townsville, and the the travel arrangements for Supreme Court and problem does not seem to have been resolved. District Court judges? Do they contribute from Mr Wells: It is because you have got a kind their jurisprudence allowance to their travel? face. You go there. Certainly, it was not clear in all the detailed matter that I read in the daily print media whether or not, Mr BEANLAND: I am a generous person in fact, the jurisprudence allowances of Supreme to those people, far more generous than the and District Court judges covered some of their Minister. I point out to the Minister that he could travel, as well it might have, from reading through rectify this situation without a great deal effort, I a number of those cases. It is certainly not clear am sure. to me exactly what the situation is. Mr WELLS: I rise to a point of order. The In this day and age, I cannot see anything honourable member is no longer speaking to the wrong in making that information available. Most Bill. of it has been made available already in the daily Mr BEANLAND: I am certainly speaking to press and, apart from the point that I have just the Supreme Court Amendment Act. In fact, I raised, the rest of it has been listed in the salaries have a letter, which I notice was written to the and allowances tribunal report. Attorney-General, in relation to this matter of The next matter that I want to talk about judges in Townsville. So I am speaking very briefly is the Litigation Reform Commission, much to this issue of the problem of the which is also covered by the Supreme Court Act. Supreme Court judge in Townsville. Recently, a I cannot help noticing that the Government case that was scheduled to be heard—— seems to be referring a number of matters to the Mr WELLS: I rise to a point of order. This is Litigation Reform Commission. I say "referring", not about the Supreme Court Act; this is about because I am not sure how else some of these the Justice and Attorney-General (Miscellaneous issues could reach the Litigation Reform Provisions) Bill. Commission otherwise. Under the Act, the Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Briskey): Minister has that power to refer. I notice that the Order! I remind the honourable member to speak 1992-93 annual report of the commission has a to the Bill before the House this evening. large number of references to items on pages 13 and 14 that have been referred to the Litigation Mr BEANLAND: This Bill amends the Reform Commission, and upon which the Criminal Justice Act 1989, the Evidence Act Litigation Reform Commission made comment, 1977, the Imperial Acts Application Act 1984, the such as the Electricity Act, the Cremation Act and Justices Act 1886, the Public Trustee Act 1978, the Residential Tenancies Act. As I say, there the Supreme Court Act 1921 and the Supreme would probably be 30 or more items contained in Court of Queensland Act 1991. The that report. It may be that there was some Attorney-General did not have any problems a obscure reason for the large number of items few moments ago when I was addressing my that were referred, but considering we did not remarks very kindly—and justifiably so—to the have a Litigation Reform Commission until Public Trustee Office. However, now that I am recently, it is certainly having a great deal of work addressing the issue of court delays, about thrust upon it at a time when we were already which he is very prickly, he is suddenly trying to having difficulty with the courts handling the make out that I am not speaking to the Bill. large number of court cases coming before Clearly, the Supreme Court Act is covered under them. this Bill. I am sure that we are all cognisant of the The problem in Townsville can be problems created by court delays. In fact, in the overcome. There is a need to examine this last few days I have been apprised of the problem. Civil cases, some of which have been situation in Townsville. This happens from time to around for three or four years, are being held up. time, but because of the appointment of a new They will be held up for another 12 months now Supreme Court judge, Mr Cullinane, and because of this predicament. This problem has because he was a Queen's Counsel in that city been evident in Townsville before. It must be prior to his appointment to that court, he is overcome. Justices may visit those courts from unable to hear a number of civil cases because of time to time, but there is still the problem of court his prior involvement. A judge has to come from delays. Brisbane for sittings in Townsville to assist. Recently, we have seen a spate of delays in Mr Wells: But he also circuits in Brisbane. other courts—Rockhampton and Gladstone. However, they are related more to the Office of Mr BEANLAND: That might be so, but the Director of Prosecutions. This will create that situation creates a number of problems. This 28 April 1994 7950 Legislative Assembly further delays in the courts, because time would years. The important thing to note—and this is have been set aside for these cases to be heard. the single, simple point that I set out to make When the prosecutions office is unable to before I was interjected upon by my learned proceed with these cases, because time had friends—is that people's rights are not affected been set aside for them, judges may not have adversely by the fact that these funds are now other cases capable of being brought on transferred to consolidated revenue rather than immediately. Time is then wasted. The being kept in some separate account. Attorney-General has a problem in that regard. It Interestingly, there is an obsession on the has been raised on a number of occasions in the part of Opposition members in this place with the past, but it still occurs because he has failed to Supreme Court, and in particular the Court of rectify the cause of the problem. Appeal and the Litigation Reform Commission. I In conclusion, in relation to the Justices Act, guess it partly arises by virtue of the fact that it additional access to Magistrates Courts will be was our idea and not theirs. I take time out to provided for disabled persons. I trust that the record our grateful appreciation to the foresight Minister will ensure that there will be additional of the my honourable colleague the Minister for funds this coming financial year also to upgrade a Industrial Relations who was one of the prime number of other Magistrates Courts facilities that movers behind the establishment of the are causing a problem. The buildings in which Queensland Court of Appeal; and the those courts are housed are magnificent, and Attorney-General, who was the prime mover many of them are heritage listed, but they do behind the Litigation Reform Commission, a cause access problems for people in commission which has served our Government wheelchairs. extremely well. Mr WELFORD (Everton) (8.24 p.m.): It is Mr Wells: No, that was Glen Milliner. my pleasure to support the amendments to the Mr WELFORD: Of course, it was Mr Justice and Attorney-General (Miscellaneous Milliner, the then Minister for Justice. The Provisions) Act. This Bill, like the Bill on which I Litigation Reform Commission has served our spoke earlier tonight, amends a number of Government well. The member for Indooroopilly pieces of legislation. queried why so many pieces of legislation go Mr Foley: Most do. before the Litigation Reform Commission. It is an Mr WELFORD: As my colleague says, interesting and curious observation made by the most miscellaneous Bills do. This just shows the member for Indooroopilly. It so happens that the sort of perception one needs to make ministerial Litigation Reform Commission—if he cared to rank these days. The provisions to which I would read the statute that formed it—has the role of like to refer relate to the Public Trustee Act. As running the ruler over pieces of legislation that the Attorney-General mentioned in his might happen to impinge upon people's rights. second-reading speech, a number of Strange as it may seem to the member for amendments are made which reflect changes to Indooroopilly, that is what laws very often do. The the office structure of the Public Trustee, reason the Litigation Reform Commission following the review of that office by the Public examines laws is that laws do affect people's Sector Management Commission. rights. Perhaps that will put to rest the concerns that the member for Indooroopilly might Another interesting feature is the changes otherwise have that the Litigation Reform to arrangements for holding unclaimed moneys. Commission is a burgeoning empire in This is one of those small pieces of the law with interference in Government policy making. which very few people come into contact. People practising law often know about this area Mr Wells: I think it's a statutory requirement in the back of their mind, but they never have of section 75 of the Act, which he voted for, isn't much to do with it. For example, this concerns it? people who do not claim casket winnings—— Mr WELFORD: That would certainly be Mr Beattie: And he's a solicitor, too. one of the provisions of the Act which the honourable member for Indooroopilly unwittingly Mr WELFORD: The member for Brisbane supported in the House. He has a unique ability Central would know about this, having done one to ask questions that have obvious answers. year of law at James Cook University. He probably dabbled in the practice of poverty law at The Supreme Court Act is amended to that time. He probably had a good deal to do with avoid the situation in which that Act provides for tracing the money trail of wealthy clients who left the financial administration of the court at the their $10 casket winnings with the receiver of same time as that administration is provided for unclaimed moneys. Moneys in that fund will now by the umbrella legislation that covers the rest of be transferred to consolidated revenue after 20 the public service; namely, the Financial Legislative Assembly 7951 28 April 1994
Administration and Audit Act. As a result of these The honourable member for Indooroopilly amendments, it simply tidies up the referred to the additional amendments that are arrangements whereby there is one set of before the House, which have been circulated financial administration and audit requirements and which I know the honourable member applicable to the Supreme Court. It avoids a discussed at some length this morning. I thank duplication on that front. him for referring to them. The necessity for those In conclusion, I would like to draw to the additional amendments, which will be moved at Attorney-General's attention an issue that arises the Committee stage, arises of a sudden. It was in the role of the Office of the Parliamentary drawn to the attention of the department but a Counsel. As I said earlier tonight, this is an issue few days ago that, in order to achieve the that I have raised with the Office of Parliamentary possibility of additional funds from the Counsel. It relates to the worth of the Commonwealth to the Scartwater trust, it was Explanatory Notes. In some respects, the necessary to have amendments to the Bill. This Explanatory Notes do provide some explanation. Bill provided a convenient vehicle by which However, on a number of occasions, the those amendments could be made. explanation does not tell one what the provision I would like to give honourable members a does. little bit of information about the Scartwater Let me cite an example. Among the Station Trust. It was established in 1920 to amendments contained in the Bill before us is an provide assistance to returned and disabled amendment to the Evidence Act relating to third soldiers from the First World War and their party discovery. This amendment—on its face, dependants. Over the years, the terms of the obviously, because the surrounding provisions trust have been amended to enable it to provide of the Bill are not before us—does not make it benefits to ex-service personnel and their clear what it is about. One might be prompted to dependants and descendants. The principal turn to the Explanatory Notes to discover what activities of the trust are now to provide this amendment is about. The Explanatory Notes scholarships for eligible students and to operate state— the retirement home. "This amendment enables the principal It is only for what are now entirely historical officer of an agency to delegate his or her reasons that the trust originally established by functions under section 134A of that Act." deed was re-established by the Act of Parliament of 1941. The trust is managed by managing That section of the Evidence Act is not before us trustees, with the assistance of the Public in the current Bill, and it is not evident in the Trustee as custodian trustee. The trust has an Evidence Act. investment capital fund of approximately $1.5m. I simply draw to the attention of officers of However, in recent years, the retirement home the Attorney's department—and, in particular, has been operating with an annual deficit of the Office of Parliamentary Counsel—that it $100,000. This deficit has been met from the seems to me that there are circumstances in income of the capital fund. In the result, the which we can improve upon the content of the capacity of the trust to award scholarships has Explanatory Notes so that at least if an been impaired significantly. amendment affects an officer's function under As a result of the consultations with the another provision, some indication is given as to Department of Health, Housing and Community what that provision involves. I note that in his Services, the Department of Veterans Affairs and second-reading speech, passing reference was the RSL War Veterans' Homes Committee, the made by the Attorney to that question. By the managing trustees were advised to apply for the same token, when members of Parliament are Commonwealth subsidy. This will enable 25 new trying to comprehend what an amending Bill is hostel units to be constructed for war veterans about, it is useful to have Explanatory Notes that and other eligible people. With this additional do explain what the amendment is about and accommodation, the retirement home will be able why it came about. I support the Bill. to operate on a full cost recovery basis. These Hon D. M. WELLS (Murrumba— Minister amendments will ensure that eligibility for for Justice and Attorney-General and Minister for admission to the home will be the same as the Arts) (8.32 p.m.), in reply: I thank the applies to RSL war veterans' homes and thus honourable and learned member for Everton and make the trust eligible for application for the the honourable member for Indooroopilly for Federal funding. It will also increase the number their helpful and constructive comments. The of trustees from five to seven, allowing younger suggestions of the honourable member for trustees to be appointed so that the trust can Everton are thoroughly taken on board, and continue so long as is necessary. These those matters will be addressed. amendments will also remove the necessity for 28 April 1994 7952 Legislative Assembly further ministerial involvement in the activities of Clause 1, as read, agreed to. the trust. That is the reason behind those Clause 2— additional amendments. As I said to the House, it is an issue that came up only in the last few days. Mr WELLS (8.39 p.m.): I move the In order to assist these people to make following amendment— application for the Federal funds which may be "At page 4, lines 5 and 6— available, it is necessary for the matter to be dealt omit, insert— with by legislation in this House. 'Commencement I would refer to one matter which my learned friend from Indooroopilly raised, and that is the '2.(1) This Act (other than section 4) Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill vis-a-vis commences on a day to be fixed by the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. proclamation. The Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill is '(2) Section 4 commences on the day something that we have been doing for years after the amendments to the Scartwater and years and years, and it is something which Station Trust Extension Act Amendment runs alongside the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Act 1960 made by this Act commence.'." Provisions) Bill. Amendment agreed to. Mr Beanland: Right beside it tonight. Clause 2, as amended, agreed to. Mr WELLS: The member may have Clause 3, as read, agreed to. noticed that they are slightly different sorts of amendments. The Statute Law (Miscellaneous Insertion of new clause— Provisions) Bill contains very minor technical Mr WELLS (8.39 p.m.): I move the amendments. This Bill contains amendments following amendment— that may have significance, such as the "At page 4, after line 13— amendment that we have just been talking about. But they are amendments which, while insert— they may be significant and while they may 'Repeals occupy a number of pages, do not alter the '4.(1) The following Acts are underlying philosophy of the Bill. That is why it is repealed— necessary to have a separate—— ¥ Scartwater Station Trust Extension Act Mr Beanland interjected. 1941 Mr WELLS: Not necessarily, because ¥ Scartwater Station Trust Extension Act Parliamentary Counsel is the initiator of the Amendment Act 1960. Statute Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. The Justice Department is the initiator of this Bill. '(2) Each Act mentioned in subsection These types of amendments relate to policy (1) is a law to which the Acts Interpretation matters, but policy matters which do not alter the Act 1954, section 20A applies. underlying philosophy of the legislation. The '(3) This section expires on the day others do not raise issues of policy. The Statute after it commences.'." Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill raises issues Amendment agreed to. of drafting. That is the distinction, and that is why we need two Bills. New clause 4, as read, agreed to. Because these bills do not alter the Schedule— underlying philosophy of the Act which they Mr WELLS (8.39 p.m.): I move the amend, it is therefore impossible for me to following amendments— comply with the member's request to make major "At page 6, line 10, ‘(4)’— policy statements in the context of this Bill or in the context of this debate. I will content myself omit, insert— with that. I simply invite the honourable member, '(4A)'. if he wishes to raise any further points, to do so at At page 31, after line 18— the Committee stage. insert— Motion agreed to. 'SCARTWATER STATION TRUST EXTENSION ACT AMENDMENT ACT 1960 Committee 1. Section 4(b)— Hon. D. M. Wells (Murrumba—Minister for omit, insert— Justice and Attorney-General and Minister for the Arts) in charge of the Bill. Legislative Assembly 7953 28 April 1994
'(b) the establishment (including extension "relevant provisions") of the Principal Act from time to time), maintenance, and this Act that affect the Indenture. conduct and control of a home on the '(2) The amendments of the Indenture land to provide board, lodging and taken to have been made by the relevant nursing care (including associated provisions are taken to have been made by maintenance and administration deed. facilities and services) exclusively for the following persons— '(3) Despite subsection (2), any declaratory or validating effect of the (i) anyone who has served or serves relevant provisions does not end merely Australia in its defence forces; because they are subsequently amended (ii) with the managing trustees' under the Indenture or otherwise.'.'." approval— Amendments agreed to. (A) anyone who has served or Schedule, as amended, agreed to. serves in the Australian merchant navy in a war or Long title— conflict in which Australia was Mr WELLS (8.40 p.m.): I move the or is involved; or following amendment after "Acts"— (B) anyone who has served or "insert— serves in the defence forces ', and to repeal certain Acts,'." or merchant navy of a country Amendment agreed to. or power allied or associated with Australia, or with a Bill reported, with amendments. country or power itself allied Third Reading or associated with Australia, Bill, on motion of Mr Wells, by leave, read a in a war or conflict in which third time. Australia was or is involved; (iii) a dependant of a person mentioned in subparagraph (i) CORRECTIVE SERVICES or (ii); (ADMINISTRATION) AMENDMENT BILL (iv) a Legacy widow; Second Reading (v) if there is enough room in the Debate resumed from 14 April (see home—anyone the managing p. 7548). trustees, in their absolute Mr COOPER (Crows Nest) (8.43 p.m.): discretion, consider is a deserving The Opposition realises that this Bill is a person and choose to admit to the procedural one. However, it is an important Bill. home but only until someone else We recognise that it makes two very important eligible under subparagraphs (i) to changes, and the Opposition has no objection in (iv) applies for admission to the principle to the implementation of these two home;'. changes, but, quite obviously, this Bill does 2. After section 4— affect appointment to the commission. The insert— commission has made, does make and will in the future make extremely important decisions 'Managing trustees' powers amended relating to corrective services and I therefore '4A. It is declared that, despite anything intend to canvass quite a number of issues in the in the Indenture— corrective services area. Regardless of the fact (a) there may be 7 persons that we have had some late nights, this is still the appointed under the Indenture as appropriate place to canvass these issues, and I managing trustees; and intend to do so. (b) the managing trustees do not There is one proposal in this Bill to change need the Minister's approval the basis of the appointment of members to the before exercising a power under board of the Corrective Services Commission. or in relation to the Indenture. That proposal follows from the recognition of relevant recommendations of the December 'Indenture taken to be amended by Act etc. 1993 report of the review carried out by the '4B.(1) The Indenture mentioned in the Public Sector Management Commission. The Principal Act and this Act is taken to have Opposition agrees that there should be no been amended by the provisions (the impediment in the legislation to the appointment of the best qualified people. The job and the 28 April 1994 7954 Legislative Assembly responsibility that they have is obviously critically of the public sector. In my opinion, this is a important and the Minister and the Government sensible move and one which will be welcomed must have the fullest confidence in those who by staff, as it will give them access to the same make up the commission. appeal rights and appeal structure as other public I note that the Bill also will allow public servants. However, the status of the commission service employees to be eligible for appointment still needs further definition if it is to be made while commission employees will not. I have accountable. While this Bill provides for the some reservations about having public servants commission to be declared a unit of the public on the board, and I will explain those, but I do sector under the Public Sector Management believe that there is the potential for a conflict of Commission Act of 1990, it does not define it as interest. Of necessity, the Corrective Services a unit of public administration under the Criminal Commission has to deal with other Government Justice Act of 1989. authorities, including, for example, the The exclusion of the Corrective Services Education Department, the Health Department Commission from the purview of the CJC makes and the Family Services and Aboriginal and it one of the least accountable Government Islander Affairs Department. In an ideal world, a agencies in Queensland when clearly it should senior public servant from one of those be one of the most accountable. This failure to departments would provide, among other things, ensure accountability is the result of very an excellent and extra avenue for understanding deliberate Government policy. of negotiations between his or her department As recently as 13 April, in this House, I and the commission. However, in reality, in the asked the Minister for Police a question that had event of any difference of view on a matter at its heart the issue of the accountability of the concerning his or her department and the commission. That question sought to obtain the commission, such a public servant could be Minister's guarantee that the commission staff placed in a difficult position. It would be a virtually would be covered by the Government's impossible position for a commission board proposed so-called whistleblowers protection member who was a public servant to deal with legislation. The Minister's reply was, to say the commission management in his or her public least, evasive. He certainly did not give any service capacity. I am not necessarily against the guarantee and simply said that he would "look at proposal, but there needs to be some caution it". It is hardly reassuring to learn that this senior about the appointment of a public servant to the Minister regards his Government's so-called board. whistleblower protection legislation in the same If, for example, a public servant was way he regards having a shave. appointed to the board on the basis of his or her All honourable members have heard so demonstrable expertise, his or her department much from the Premier about what a huge leap could not employ that expertise in officer-to- forward this proposed legislation will be for the officer negotiations with the commission. In such cause of public accountability. The very a case, a commission officer would not just be reasonable assumption all Queenslanders drew dealing with an equal, but with one of his from that was that all agencies of the Queensland employers. I do make the observation that Government would be covered by it, yet as soon existing members of the commission must be a as a senior Minister is questioned about whether little nervous about their futures given this or not it will apply to his portfolio, that Minister proposal—and I think the Minister knows what I shies away from that question a bit like a am talking about. When the Minister receives this frightened filly. That failure confirms in my mind wider power of appointment and the that some public servants are more equal than Government determines the membership of the others in the eyes of this Government and again new board, there are no excuses for any it reveals what a grubby, sad little sham all of its communication difficulties, policy pompous talk about accountability really is. misunderstandings or philosophy variations. Once the Minister has the board he wants, and In his reply to my question, the Minister did once that board is supplied with clear and try to wax eloquent about how wonderful it was unambiguous ministerial guidelines under the that the Corrective Services Commission had its Act, then presumably we can all predict the own body of police to "supervise staff". He dawning of a bright new tomorrow of efficiency, continued— harmony and progress—I bet the Minister would "Those independent police officers do be praying for it. I, for one, will let future events an excellent job. The public of Queensland tell the tale about that theory. has been well serviced by the police officers The second matter is the proposal to settle who are carrying out that task." beyond a doubt the commission's status as a unit Legislative Assembly 7955 28 April 1994
One wonders why, if an independent body of came to me, they would also like to see the police is doing such a fine job at the Corrective Minister. Service Commission, the Government does not Mr and Mrs Patrick informed me that they dismantle the CJC and just have a few police had made many attempts to warn commission roaming around all departments supervising the officers and others that their son was suicidal. staff, to use Mr Braddy's job description of police They tried to warn of suicide attempts, and on at the Corrective Services Commission. Of Friday, 15 April, they personally warned the course, that is a ludicrous proposition and the general manager, the operations manager, the Minister knows it. The refusal of the Government manager of programs and the senior to bring the Corrective Services Commission psychologist. In their own words, at great length under the purview of the CJC and the refusal of and in great detail those people were fully the Minister to guarantee that commission staff warned. There is one quote that Mr Patrick said will be covered by the much-vaunted that I could use. He said to them— whistleblowers protection legislation have a common basis, that is, the blind terror inside the "If you muck around too long and do Government of the consequences of the nothing, just book him a room at the reversal of that refusal. morgue." Of course, commission staff, prisoners or On 15 April, Mr Patrick offered to stay with his even members of the public have another truly son in the gaol to prevent the suicide. On 17 wonderful avenue of complaint—that is, April, their son died. They also gave me a according to the Minister. He also informed the warning which the Minister might like to take on House on 13 April that all of those people could board. Whatever people are in gaol for, and come to him with their little worries. I do not want whatever the colour of their skin, the last thing to deflate the Minister's own opinion of himself that anyone wants to see is people taking their unnecessarily, but he may not have noticed that, lives. Mr and Mrs Patrick mentioned the case of when he said that anyone could come to him, not Troy Porter, who is in a detention unit at Wacol. even his own colleagues were racked with sobs There is evidence of suicide attempts there, and of gratitude. If, in the past, a National Party inmates have slashed their wrists. Troy Porter Minister had said that, I am sure the Labor Party has been told that they may let him out of the and the media would have been convulsed with detention unit in two weeks or thereabouts if he absolute derision. However, since this behaves himself. I find it hard to reconcile the Government actually does believe its own two; if you are trying to behave yourself but are propaganda and believes that it is the next best not getting the necessary treatment, that makes thing to the Second Coming, that sort of it difficult. I refer again to the article in the pronouncement is expected to be regarded as a Weekend Independent. I do not mean to be brilliant illustration of the finest principles of selective; this will be available to anyone who public administration. wishes to read it. The article states— For a specific reason, I raise this issue about ". . . he was to have testified later in the year people being able to go to the Minister to air their against a Townsville prison officer who worries and concerns. Today, Mr and Mrs Patrick allegedly supplied him with heroin. came to me in my office with a journalist from the According to his parents Patrick Weekend Independent to raise a matter of informed them that he had developed a concern to them. I pass this on to the Minister, heroin addiction while serving time in because he might like to take up this matter. Mr Townsville jail. The Patricks said their son and Mrs Patrick are the parents of Mervyn Patrick, had not been addicted to heroin before who took his own life in the Wacol Correctional commencing his sentence in Townsville." Centre on 17 April. One of their concerns was The article, which is quite extensive, states— that there was to be a memorial service at Wacol tomorrow at 2 p.m. They wished to attend that "Mr Patrick said his son had never service, and permission had been given to them received any drug rehabilitation or to attend it. But when Mr and Mrs Patrick were counselling while he was in jail, although the taken to inspect the conditions where young commission had been very aware that Mervyn took his life, Mrs Patrick criticised the Mervyn's problems were drug-related and conditions. For their efforts, that service was that he had a heroin addiction. cancelled—or postponed or they were denied Wacol prison officers who saw Patrick's access to that memorial service. We do not know file said there was no mention of heroin use whether there is to be a memorial service and or addiction. whether they will be allowed to attend. The Ms Patrick said commission Minister might like to take this matter up with Mr psychologists had told them their son would and Mrs Patrick. I am quite certain that, as they 28 April 1994 7956 Legislative Assembly
not receive treatment until he could control Mr Beattie: Are you reading a newspaper his emotional behaviour. or are you making a speech? Patrick had been taking drugs from the Mr COOPER: I believe that this is age of 13, and by the time he began his six- important. year sentence 18 months ago, he had a Mr Beattie: I agree. speed and cannabis addiction. Mr COOPER: I thank the honourable His parents said he had first been sent member. The article continues— to Townsville where, Mervyn told them, he had developed a heroin addiction. He said "Mr Patrick said he had been told his an officer was bringing the drugs into the son was being kept in the detention unit jail." because they had nowhere else 'to keep a person like that'." The information that I have seen, which I was not allowed to keep but was certainly allowed to view, I honestly do not believe that this is a laughing is indicative of the validity of those statements. matter. I am not carrying a brief for anyone in The article continues— particular. I want to see people—whomever they are—treated reasonably well and humanely. The "The first time he had tried to kill himself article continues— was last year in Townsville prison, when he slashed his wrists and cut up his arms, his " 'His emotional state was always up parents said. and down, and I kept saying he's like that because he's in that stinking . . . hole.' "— The Patricks said the commission had on five occasions broken its promise to and so on. The article states— Mervyn that he would be taken back to "The Patricks said they could not fault Brisbane. the prison officers who looked after their Ms Patrick said that Patrick had been son and were grateful for the extra visits 'sewn up' after the first suicide attempt, and they were allowed." they had been told by the commission that it Honourable members can read all about that. was a behavioural problem. Those documents should be available within the The Patricks believe the suicide system. Hopefully, all of those documents will be attempts started in Townsville largely utilised during that inquiry. because their son was experiencing On 21 January this year, the Chairman of the problems with drugs. CJC, Mr O'Regan, advised me that, as far back as Ms Patrick said Mervyn could not reach September 1990, the CJC—and I am bringing the stage where he could say 'no' to drugs the commission under the purview of the because, by his admission, drugs were CJC—had written to the Director-General of the easier to obtain in jail than on the outside. Premier's Department proposing, amongst other things, that the Corrective Services Commission 'We had a couple of phone be made accountable to the CJC. Subsequently, conversations with Mervyn and he said to the parliamentary CJC made a similar me: "They're feeding me drugs in here", ' Mr recommendation. Since then, the matter has Patrick said. been conveniently buried in the bureaucracy. All Patrick was to have given evidence in that anyone can draw from that is, "Really, what July against a prison officer who was have you got to hide?"—especially when allegedly supplying him with drugs. everyone else comes under the purview of the Asked how he could afford to buy CJC and the public sector. drugs in jail, the Patricks said they had When the Premier was the Minister deposited around $2 000 in his account, responsible for the CJC, this recommendation which had all been spent. was considered by the Cabinet Office. When the Ms Patrick said the case would not go Minister for Justice and Attorney-General ahead as Mervyn had been the main became the Minister responsible for the CJC, the witness. issue slipped a few rungs on the priority ladder and went to what was euphemistically called an The Patricks said their son had been inter-departmental working group consisting of placed in Wacol Hospital when he first officers from the Cabinet Office, the Department arrived in Brisbane, and he was then placed of Justice and Attorney-General, the Police straight into the detention unit, where he Service and the Public Sector Management remained for the last five months before Commission. There it stayed, and that is where it committing suicide on April 17. Mr Patrick still is. said"—— Legislative Assembly 7957 28 April 1994
It is a statement of fact that, in Queensland Mr Braddy: Why should I have your letter in the 1990s, if the Government wants deliberate here with me tonight? idleness on an issue, it goes to a working group; Mr COOPER: Why should the Minister not if it wants something even more seriously sat on, read mail? These are important matters, and they it goes to a standing committee; and if total are matters that the Minister should know about. secrecy is to be the order of the day, an issue is The Minister should know the implementation referred to a freedom of information officer or a dates, and he should know the community consultation process. Everyone recommendations. The Minister is in charge, so knows what a farce the freedom of information let us not argue. legislation is. The PSMC timetable provides for specific The simple stark fact is that the Corrective implementation of a total of 32 recommendations Services Commission is seething with outrage as in this financial year, and I look forward to the honest, decent officers see instances of annual report of the Corrective Services corruption, inhumane behaviour—instances Commission providing a response to all of those such as those I have just cited—and outright lies 32 recommendations as well as the progress on virtually every day. The Government's response the other 49. That is a challenge that the is clearly to try to keep a firm lid on this pressure Minister, as a hands-on administrator, should be cooker for as long as possible, but it cannot keep able to take care of with just one very decisive it on forever. The result has been an and masterly phone call. administration that can only be described as a ramshackle collection of warring factions that The PSMC review was useful as far as it make the average parliamentary Labor went—which, to be honest, was not really far Party—and looking across the Chamber it enough. Its criticism was muted; it was respectful, certainly looks very average—look like poetry in and it was polite; its praise was extravagant; and, motion. That is the situation that exists. Senior in at least one case, its failure was monumental. staff depart from the Corrective Services That monumental failure was in the area of the Commission at a frequency and a speed that commission's financial management and actually rivals the inmates' record. They are going accountability. I will address that issue later. pretty well! As everybody knows, the conditions in The two matters dealt with in this Bill arise watch-houses in this State are appalling. from recommendations of the December 1993 Prisoners are kept in those watch-houses. This Report of the Review of Corrective Services by matter received detailed consideration by the the Public Sector Management Commission. PSMC in its review summary. The report notes— That review report made 81 recommendations "The backlog of prisoners in watch- and many of these had specific implementation houses has increased since the police dates. By 31 March this year, 14 of those with review was completed." specified implementation dates should have It is timely to recall that in April 1993, when the been finalised. The Minister, who regards himself PSMC reported on its review of the Police as a hands-on administrator, will be aware of Service, this Minister was then the Minister for these recommendations. If he is not, I refer him Police. He was also the Minister for Corrective to my letter dated 15 April last, which identified Services in December 1993 when the PSMC every one of them. I invite the Minister's open reported on the Corrective Services acknowledgment that all of these implementation Commission. In the considered view of the dates have been met and that rapid progress is PSMC, the situation in police watch-houses got being made on the other 67 recommendations. steadily worse between April 1993 and For example, I would like the Minister's categoric December 1993 while Mr Braddy was Minister for assurance that the future implementation dates Police. Having shown how wonderfully effective of 30 April for one recommendation, 31 May for he was in the management of prisoners' facilities, two more recommendations and 30 June for 15 the Minister was considered a natural by the recommendations will be met. Premier to take on Corrective Services and do a Mr Braddy: You say which ones they are. repeat performance on a far bigger stage. Mr COOPER: They are coming up. I want Of course, I suppose that anybody had to the Minister to respond. I put them all in my letter. be better than the Minister he replaced. Mr The Minister has the letter; he should read it. Milliner was, and still is, a decent person. The Mr Braddy: I haven't got your letter here. best that can be said of him is that he tried to do his best, but in the end even his mates had to Mr COOPER: The Minister should open admit that that was not quite good enough. I am his mail. told that unkind cynics inside the Corrective Services Commission now refer to the closed 28 April 1994 7958 Legislative Assembly
Woodford gaol—one of those institutions that Aboriginal and Islander community knew it was a should never have been closed—as the "Glen lie; the legal profession knew it was a lie; Milliner Memorial Correctional Facility"—not only prisoners who had endured the experience is nobody home but also the lights are not on. knew it was a lie; and the PSMC itself confirmed it On pages 194, 195, and 196 of the is a lie. The question is: did the Minister approve Corrective Services Commission review report, it and, if so, why? Might I suggest to the the PSMC dealt with watch-houses and in polite Government that when it beats it breast about language reported on the bitter and open how caring and sharing it is in response to the warfare raging between the commission and the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Police Service on the issue. A highlight of that is Custody, it at least have the decency not to do the following— so on the basis of lies that are so painfully obvious that they are laughable. "The Police Service has expressed particular concern that the QCSC does not The shocking conditions caused by recognise suicidal prisoners as requiring overcrowding in police watch-houses are the special medical treatment and prioritised result in far too many cases of a refusal by the removal." Corrective Services Commission to accept prisoners who should rightfully be in their How prophetic! As the PSMC report noted— charge. The commission simple cannot accept "There is"— many prisoners when it should because there what is quaintly called— are no places in the gaols for them. The results of that failure by the Government to ensure "a divergence of opinion between the sufficient gaol places and, therefore, to reduce police and the Corrective Services the risk of watch-house overcrowding has been Commission as to what constitutes specialist horrendous. It is no exaggeration to say that it medical treatment." has contributed directly to the deaths in those That means that Mr hands-on administrator, the watch-houses. Last November, the Minister, who has responsibility for both Police Government's chief medical officer, Dr John and Corrective Services, cannot even arbitrate Lynch, said the Corrective Services Commission on the vitally important matter of what amounts to was "shirking its responsibilities by not accepting life and death. It is an utter disgrace and a grave sick prisoners into gaols from watch-houses" and threat to people's lives when, for example, police he described the Government's claim that the believe a watch-house inmate should be at a average stay in a watch-house was five days as cardiac arrest unit and the Corrective Services "pure rubbish". In other words, Dr lynch was Commission is more inclined to recommend a saying that the Government was peddling a lie to cup of tea, a Bex and a nice lie down. try to excuse its failures. His concerns were The PSMC review also noted that the backed up by the Government Medical Officer for Government's response to the Royal the Logan district, the Premier's own home Commission on Aboriginal Deaths in Custody patch, Dr Bernadette Culliford. She said stated the following— extended stays in watch-houses could lead to violence and the spread of infectious diseases. "Prisoners are held in watch-houses on Only recently I revealed that there had been an behalf of the QCSC usually for a relatively outbreak of scabies in the Brisbane watch-house short period by the Queensland Police and the reaction of the Government was a Service in remote areas where facilities statement to the effect that a few squirts of comparable to those provided in disinfectant would have the whole problem correctional institutions are not available. solved. Such prisoners receive the same treatment as all other persons in police custody." The Health Minister, Mr Hayward, advised me in a letter dated 11 April last that he had The review comment on that assertion was, "This intervened in the matter. I wrote to both Mr statement appears to be at odds with current Hayward and Mr Braddy when Dr Lynch and Dr practice." That bit of masterful understatement Culliford had made their statements in November means that the Government's claim is an outright, but, as usual, our friend the hands-on outrageous and deliberate lie. It means that administrator, Mr Braddy, either could not, or somebody at the very highest level of would not, respond. Government sanctioned a shoddy, shameful and pathetically obvious bit of deceit. I invite the I will quote from a letter that Mr Hayward wrote to Minister to explain why this pure invention, this me. It states— shabby concoction, should have been made. "I am aware that Dr Lynch has The police knew it was a lie; the Corrective expressed concern to the chief health Services Commission knew it was a lie; the officer on two aspects of watchhouse Legislative Assembly 7959 28 April 1994
accommodation. Firstly, that most psychiatric services for the commission, although watchhouse cells within the building have the PSMC report noted— no access to external light or ventilation and "There is also some doubt as to are usually not air-conditioned. whether Queensland Health would have This means that the rooms are subject sufficient human resources to provide these to constant artificial light and in warmer services." weather become most unpleasant with The PSMC recommended that the respect to temperature and humidity." Corrective Services Commission and the Health Dr Lynch's other concern was that it appears Department review prisoners' drug detoxification that owing to limited accommodation in prison a programs, which strongly suggests that current number of persons once convicted remain in practices are less than adequate. By not watch-houses for up to 30 days prior to moving providing a satisfactory range of medical and to prison accommodation. Under division 5, psychiatric services to its inmates because of a section 32, of the Corrective Service Act 1988, lack of funding, the Corrective Services all individuals held in custody in watch-houses Commission is releasing back to an innocent are the responsibility of the Commissioner of community prisoners who are still drug and Police, even if convicted, until transferred from alcohol addicted and prisoners who have the watch-house to the care of the Corrective psychiatric illnesses. Undoubtedly, many of Services Commission. Effectively, that means these people are really like walking time bombs. that any medical care required falls under the The Government has made much of its program province of the Government Medical Officer. Watch-houses do not have treatment rooms or to spend $25m to provide an extra 318 prison medical facilities, and any medical attendance is beds, 80 of which are described as "temporary". undertaken in the prisoner's cell and, quite Of course, the Minister has declined to define often, by police officers who have to run taxi the word "temporary", and one supposes that it services to the chemist. Should any significant is like beauty—it really is in the eye of the medication treatment or observation be required, beholder. The program deserves to be studied prisoners would then be transferred to a hospital closely. setting. Very properly and commendably, Mr According to its 1992-93 annual report, the Hayward informed me further— Corrective Services Commission underspent its "I am currently having the matter capital works program in that year by $4.2m examined in some depth with a view to owing "to delays in commencing some projects". clarifying any concerns regarding I asked this hands-on Minister questions about watchhouse conditions and responsibilities this matter last November but, of course, there and procedures between medical staff of have been no replies. Therefore, given this the Corrective Services Commission and unexplained track record of not being able to Government Medical Officers." spend even a meagre capital works budget on time in 1992-93, we really cannot have much Further, Mr Hayward informed me that officers of confidence in the commission's ability to get the Chief Health Officer's section had met with Dr cracking on this allegedly major boost to facilities. Lynch and Dr Todd, the director of medical The provision under this program of 238 services for the Corrective Services Commission, permanent places does not even go anywhere to try to resolve the problems. So "Mr Hands-on" near towards covering the shortfall of 272 beds Minister either does not know, or he really does lost when the Government abruptly closed the not want to tell me, whether he has been Woodford gaol in July 1991. involved in consultations on this matter. An analysis of the situation on 30 June Mr Gilmore: When they get them into the 1993 under this Government compared with the goals they are using the buddy system. There situation four years earlier under the National are insufficient cells and they are double decking Party administration reveals the following: in them. 1989, there were 0.92 prison places and 0.84 Mr COOPER: I thank the member for that prisoners per 1 000 people. In 1989, the daily interjection, and I will come to that matter. The average prison population was 2 404. In 1989, health and wellbeing of prisoners should be a the State's population was just over 2.8 million. In major priority for the Government and the 1993, a 10 per cent growth resulted in a State Corrective Services Commission, but it appears population of more than 3.1 million. In 1993, the that it does not have the priority that it deserves. number of permanent prison places had fallen The Kennedy inquiry recommended that the compared with 1989 by 412 to 2 191. In 1993, Health Department take over responsibility for all there were 0.7 prison places per 1 000 people. It is calculated that, if permanent prison places had 28 April 1994 7960 Legislative Assembly kept pace with population growth between 1989 their cells when custodial staff went on strike and 1993, about 700 extra permanent places after a dispute arising from the fact that their would have been provided. The so-called lengthy negotiations on a new award had expansion program will not solve the achieved an average increase in salary of only overcrowding crisis in prisons and watch-houses some 2 per cent. This strike came four months and, in fact, by relying heavily on what is after the PSMC review report, which had warned euphemistically called doubling up, such as we of what it described as an unsettled industrial have seen in some of the gaols, it will worsen relations climate in the custodial corrections area, overcrowding in the gaols and that, in turn, will and it followed the fierce opposition by worsen security problems, and aren't the prison management in the Industrial Relations officers aware of it! That program was forced out Commission to any meaningful pay rise for the of the Government by the conclusion by the staff. I would have thought that a forewarned PSMC in its review that there was an urgent need management would have been forearmed for increased prison capacity. management. However, apparently that is not so. In 1989-90 under the last National Party The facts of the matter are that prison officers Government's Budget, the Corrective Services have been remarkably responsible and Commission had a capital works budget of restrained, and that that was misinterpreted by $43.9m. By 1993-94 this Budget had slumped management as a sign of weakness. In 1990-91, to $15.9m of which, we will recall, $4.2m was not there were 1 349 days lost owing to industrial spent. Shortly after the hands-on unrest by the staff. In 1991-92, that loss declined administrator, Mr Braddy, became Corrective to 352 days, and in 1992-93 there was no loss at Services Minister, he floated the idea that he was all. An insensitive management actually caused considering reopening Woodford gaol. I wrote to that industrial dispute to be expended by making him in November last year seeking details of what silly and insulting public statements, and those cost estimates had been made to allow complete statements underlined heavily the conclusions modernisation and restoration of that facility. Of of the PSMC about the general unhappiness course, I have not yet received a reply. among staff, and the reasons for that Presumably, this idea has been abandoned. unhappiness. The Corrective Services Commission has It was claimed by management that the driven itself into massive debt, borrowing to fund prison officers' union should abide by the redundancy payouts for sacked staff. The bill principles of enterprise bargaining and allow the alone for former Woodford gaol staff was more independent Industrial Commission to make a than $2.8m. The 1992-93 annual report of the determination about salaries and conditions on Corrective Services Commission stated that $6m the basis of work practices and skills. However, had been borrowed to fund what he had cutely the simple fact of the matter is that one of the key described as the outplacement program. determinants under the enterprise bargaining Outplacement programs are what the public principles is the level of skills obtained from service have when they have to settle the professional training. The PSMC report account with those who have been given the recognised that training, particularly for custodial flick. Servicing that debt means that scarce funds correctional officers, was inadequate and will have to be diverted from other very much recommended that a report be prepared by 31 needed priorities. The PSMC report quoted the March last on strategies to increase the access of Kennedy inquiry as saying that the Corrective these officer to training. I wonder whether that Services Commission, then only a deadline was ever met. recommended body, should be a better It is a classic catch-22 situation for these employer, more caring of its staff and be able to staff. They are told by management that they will provide a better and more fulfilling place to work. have a better opportunity to gain an improved The PSMC concluded that Corrective Services award if they are better trained, and yet that very Commission staff at all levels had undergone same management has not provided the access considerable stress through the reform process to that training. Is it any wonder that those people and had a perception that management's only are disgusted? The unhappiness among staff is concern was "to screw them down as far as they not just restricted to custodial correctional can go to keep Treasury happy". Staff saw officers, as the whole thrust of the Government's themselves as being poorly trained, poorly paid alleged law and order philosophy emphasises and poorly supported in relation to the risks that prisons as a last resort penalty. This is clearly they were exposed to daily. Undeniably, that written into its penalties and sentencing finding was, and is, correct. legislation. The number of non-custodial In early April we had the spectacle of prisons prisoners has literally exploded. Only one in having to be shut down and prisoners locked in eight convicted offenders is actually serving time in gaol, according to the latest available figures. Legislative Assembly 7961 28 April 1994
All of the non-custodial offenders have been Mr COOPER: The Minister should go sentenced to various forms of community service through the caseloads again. He should not or home detention. forget about the woman who was splashed all Between 1991 and 1993, the number of over the papers. They got it wrong. She was in non-custodial offenders who required gaol for 14 months for false pretences. Now she supervision by the Corrective Services is splashed all over the papers as being one of Commission doubled. According to the 1992-93 the ten most wanted people in the State. I annual report of the Corrective Services wonder what the Minister has to say to her and Commission, there were 16 418 non-custodial her family. offenders requiring supervision. A miserable Mr Braddy: I will say something about you. total of 289 community correctional staff had to Mr COOPER: I bet the Minister does. The handle that huge workload. An unofficial survey Minister should give them some consideration. I of these parole and probation officers revealed sincerely hope that the Minister has something that the average officer handled 88 cases at a to say about that disgraceful case. So much for time, and that 96 per cent of them said that they supervision. The community has every right to were too busy to maintain the commission's ask why people described by police as minimum standards of supervision. dangerous and who should not be approached if The Minister has disputed this figure, and recognised should not have been in secure he claimed shortly after he became Corrective custody. We say that they should have definitely Services Minister that the average caseload was been in secure custody serving their sentence. only about 70 offenders per officer. His The PSMC report concluded— hapless—and perhaps hopeless—predecessor Mr Milliner had claimed the average caseload was "Statistics included in the national 69 offenders. At least we had some sort of corrections management information implied admission that things were getting 1991-92 show that, as at 30 June 1992, worse. However, the Corrective Services Queensland's community corrections staff Commission itself undertook a survey of supervised the highest number of caseloads. That secret survey showed that the offenders per staff member—namely, one ratio of officers to parolees and probationers was staff member per 76 offenders—in 1 to 76, and that the ratio of supervisors to Australia." people performing community service orders, The PSMC report shows that between 1988 and home detention and leave of absence from 1993 there was a staggering 171 per cent prison was 1 to 226—up from 1 to 142 in 1989 increase in the number of the various court under the former National Party Government. orders which have to be supervised. Yet the Another part of that survey showed that area number of staff undertaking this work had managers, who were included in that calculation increased by only 87 per cent in the same that provided the average caseload of 76, period. In another of its masterly actually spent about 18 per cent of their time on understatements, the PSMC report concluded— staff supervision and 28 per cent of their time on "Staff and management are clearly at administrative duties. Of course, our hands-on loggerheads on workload assessment." Minister has flatly refused to release that survey It states further— and has refused to respond to my letter of mid- November to him on that matter. It provides yet "Anecdotal evidence suggests that another example of what he and this funding constraints exist, particularly in Government see as accountability. relation to programs, staff training and standards of supervision." Apart from the fact that this appalling caseload makes enforcement of the conditions The report also stated— of these various non-custodial orders "It is acknowledged that the community impossible, it has a direct consequence on the corrections area is managing prisoners escape of serious offenders. The most recent list much earlier in their sentences than was we have seen of the 10 most wanted escaped previously the case. This suggests that the prisoners revealed that nine of them—including risk factor has increased." two convicted killers, a rapist and four bank It states further— robbers—were supposed to be on some sort of supervised release. One murderer who was "Staff, magistrates and other supposed to be serving a life sentence simply community stakeholders have reported walked out of a halfway house. Another was concern that the standard of supervision in supposed to be serving 18 years—— the community has dropped considerably. Many reports from community organisations Mr Braddy interjected. 28 April 1994 7962 Legislative Assembly
and staff indicate that existing community identified, and also whether he had conveyed service projects cannot be adequately Police Service concerns to his predecessor as supervised and that there is little time Corrective Services Minister about their release available to procure and establish new and, if not, why not. Once again, I invite the projects. The lack of confidence by the Minister to inform the House about this matter, as judiciary in the integrity of community he has not bothered to get around to answering sentencing options may prompt a reversion my letter after all these months. to custodial penalties being imposed." The community corrections boards, when Therefore, it is very obvious that staff who have considering applications from prisoners for some this great responsibility are grossly overworked. form of early release, must consider any To add insult to injury, the Corrective Services recommendations and comments made at the Commission and the Minister are both prepared time of sentencing and the guidelines provided to push the line that everything is firmly under by the Corrective Services Minister. The control and that claims of overwork are pure Corrective Services Administration Act of invention. That is not only an insult to the staff; it 1988—an Act which I introduced—allows the is a cynical and deceitful attempt to allay very real Minister, under section 23, to direct the community worries about what protection from commission in writing. When this Government convicted criminals they are given by the system reviewed that Act and made some amendments, and what true level of observance there is to it very wisely left section 23 intact. That Act also court orders for community service. gives the Minister power to issue guidelines to Decisions to release prisoners from gaols to the community corrections boards. some form of supervised early release are made I have also invited the Minister to inform me by the Community Corrections Board or by one what changes he has made to these guidelines of its regional boards. The central board handles to the board which were prepared by his the most serious offenders. When the Minister predecessor after this Government's review of became Corrective Services Minister, he the Act in 1990. This was to ensure that the displayed a sudden concern about how these board does not do anything silly, such as boards reached their decisions. He had not been releasing people under circumstances similar to in the job for five minutes before he was making the release of the famous "32", over which at the big macho noises to the effect that the central time he became quite hysterical. Once again, the board had better smarten up its act. That was response has been a deafening silence. I would back in October last year, at which time the have thought that, as a hands-on administrator, Minister said specifically that the board must he would have sent a virtual blizzard of directions account for its decisions to release 32 prisoners to the Community Corrections Board and to the who have subsequently committed crimes. Corrective Services Commission to ensure that The president of the board, retired judge Mr they were in no doubt that there was now a firm Bill Carter, QC, is hardly the sort of person to take hand on the tiller and that no nonsense would be this sort of intimidatory nonsense lying down, tolerated. and he very promptly said that the Minister had Talking tough about prisons is not just not bothered with the basic courtesy of talking to something that the Minister does when he wants him prior to making his public announcements a headline. Way back on 16 February 1992, the reflecting on the board, or seeking any meeting Sunday Mail carried a story headed, "Double time to discuss the issue. On 11 November last year, for escapees" emblazoned across its front page. about three weeks after that big announcement That story quoted the Premier, Mr Goss, as by the Minister and his demand for accountability saying that gaol sentences for escapees and by the board, Mr Carter wrote to me. He stated— anybody convicted of helping them would be "I am not aware of the fact that the doubled and that the new penalties for these Minister has announced an inquiry as to offences would range up to seven years. In that whether or not the board, of which I am the article, Mr Goss is quoted as saying— president, has observed ministerial "These new laws show we are fair guidelines. Nor am I aware of any criticism of dinkum about keeping people in prison. myself or the board by the former Minister." There will be no room for doubt. Escapees Did this big inquiry ever take place? Or was it just and their mates will be subject to the full something the Minister had to say to prove to the force of the law." world that he was a hands-on administrator and Mr Goss also revealed that the public was fed up that he was now in charge? I invite the Minister to with escapes from gaol and that the Government inform the House of the results of that inquiry. I had told the Corrective Services Commission did write to the Minister in November asking that the number of escapes was too high. about this inquiry and the 32 cases that he Legislative Assembly 7963 28 April 1994
This morning, in this House, I asked the internal financial crisis, and prisoners were Premier a question about what has been done transferred so quickly that there were no plans to since that statement was made. In a letter that I handle them properly. A report was received this afternoon, the Premier was able to commissioned on that outbreak. It was prepared inform me that the amending Act came into force by a senior commission officer, Mr Trevor on 1 June 1992. The letter stated further— Carlyon, who was assistant director-general at "The relevant effect of these the time, a senior police officer and a member of provisions was to increase the maximum the accountancy and management consultancy penalties for: firm KPMG Peat Marwick. (a) the person who escapes custody; That report revealed shocking mismanagement. Of course, the response from (b) the person who is responsible for the commission and the Government was that it keeping another person in lawful had to be kept under wraps at all costs. Mr custody and permits the other person Carlyon has subsequently revealed, after he to escape resigned in disgust, that the director-general of from three to seven years." the commission, Mr Hamburger, had pressured I am thankful for that response, which was not him to tone down the criticism. It was later able to be provided to me this morning. I ask the revealed that the commission board had Minister: how many escapees have actually reprimanded Mr Hamburger, although of course received increased sentences as a result of their it did not occur to the commission to make even escape? I wrote to the Minister on that issue last the tiniest reference to that in that self-serving November. Again, I have received no response. comic that it grandly calls the annual report. According to the PSMC report, under The result of the inquiry was that four section 93 of the Corrective Services Act, among hapless officers were sacked, and one of those other prisoner offences, the penalties for officers later complained that the report was escape, opposition to lawful authority and failure denied to them and they had no way of to give information carry a penalty of a maximum defending themselves. So much for justice! This of two years' imprisonment. It seems that those case illustrates exactly why the Government tough laws announced in February 1992, does not want the CJC having any authority over according to no less an authority than the the Corrective Services Commission and why the Premier himself, were due to be considered by Minister is refusing to provide any guarantee that Cabinet the next day. It is pleasing to note that the so-called whistleblowers' protection those penalties have been increased. I ask: legislation will not apply to commission staff. since 1992 when the laws were toughened, how Official attempts to obtain copies of the many escaped prisoners have actually received Moreton gaol break-out report were rejected increased sentences under that legislation? flatly by the Corrective Services Commission on I also invite the Minister to explain to the the grounds that it contained security-sensitive House whose view he supports—whether he information. When that report actually did see the supports the view of his esteemed leader or that public light of day, that claim was exposed as a of the PSMC. It is one thing for this Government monumental lie. The reason for keeping the to announce something and then not to bother report a secret was that it strongly criticised the to do it, but it is really something else when the administration of prisons management. Virtually Premier announces something and the final anything can get into our prisons. In November result is the direct opposite. Again, I quote the last year, a journalist posing as a law clerk Premier from February 1992— managed to smuggle a TV camera into the Wacol gaol and interview an inmate who was a suspect "People will soon get the message. If in the New South Wales backpacker murders. we double the range . . ." The Minister knows how large a TV camera is—or Those words were spoken at that time. This he should; he spends every waking moment afternoon, I received an answer to the question trying to appear before one, unless of course the that I asked this morning. I repeat that I want to topic is not the general theme of how know how many escapees have received the wonderfully he is performing. Yet there has been attention of that amendment to the Act in 1992. a total failure to explain how that extraordinary The mass break-out of seven dangerous breach of security could have occurred. Not one prisoners from Moreton gaol in 1991 was a word have we heard about how such a breach classic example of how the Corrective Services could occur. For all the Minister knows, a film Commission handles security. That break-out crew could be doing a remake of The Birdman of was precipitated by the rash and abrupt decision Alcatraz at Wacol right at this very moment while to close the Woodford gaol because of the management remains blissfully ignorant. 28 April 1994 7964 Legislative Assembly
More recently, I exposed the episode of the the extortion attempt, and he admitted that he missing key at the Arthur Gorrie gaol that had all did not have a clue how those little items had the elements of a French farce. Somehow, a been smuggled in, despite what he called a very master key—which could open a large number of tight security system, including metal detectors. internal doors at the gaol—just vanished, and The Arthur Gorrie gaol has a wonderful that eventually caused a huge hunt. To this day, system called the buddy system, which has we do not know where the key was found, obviously been introduced because of a lack of whether any copies of the key might have been staff. Under that innovative scheme, made or whether, as a security measure, the management selects prisoners who might then locks it could open have been changed. The be regarded as the "A-Team". They are given reason we do not know is that the Minister will not lovely official green T-shirts. Once selected and tell us. I hear that about 20 packets of White Ox played a role in the key being found. kitted out, between 7 a.m. and 8.30 p.m. the A- Team—which at any one time numbers about 15 We also had the remarkable incident of the prisoners—is involved in the escort and so-called random search procedure introduced observation of other prisoners around the gaol. at the Sir David Longland gaol in January. Under The buddy system was introduced at about the that procedure, which was detailed in the general beginning of this year. However, that idea has manager's memorandum dated 14 January this been flagrantly abused by some of the chosen year, one in every three inmates who received a buddies who, let us face it, are acting like thugs visitor would be strip searched after that visit. The and criminals rather than pillars of the community. extraordinary thing about that directive is that it stated— That they should act in that way just because they are thugs and criminals seems to "The Manager Operations will be have come as somewhat of a surprise to the responsible for the random selection of inmates' names from lists of those inmates higher reaches of prison management, who may attending a visit session. Those inmates' well be under the mistaken impression that their names randomly selected to be searched facility is not populated by high risk and very will be supplied to the Manager Operations dangerous men but by misunderstood and in writing, to the Operations Support Officer overstressed innocents. Allegedly, buddies are and visit personnel." selected only after consideration of their records and their personalities, so that only the very This ridiculous so-called security measure meant finest will be given that increased status and that a pre-prepared list of prisoners to be increased access to sensitive areas of the gaol. searched would then go on virtual open display According to the prison officers, weaker in areas to which prisoners had access. One prisoners who have achieved buddy status and does not have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce therefore the official A-Team green T-shirt have that prisoners with access to that list prior to visits had that identifying piece of clothing rather could tip off their mates as to who was to be forcibly removed by the hard-core criminals, who searched so that any smuggled items could be then parade around asserting their authority and handed by visitors to those inmates not on the strip-search list. If inmates in Queensland gaols obtaining access to areas of the prison that learn anything, it is the value of individual should be strictly off limits. initiative and the overcoming of adversity via In mid-April, the gaol's general manager, Mr tremendous personal effort. Lewis, confirmed that two prisoners had lost their The episode of the recent extortion attempt exalted status as buddies, although he denied organised from inside the Arthur Gorrie gaol is what was politely called "shirt swapping" testament to that. In that case, it emerged that between buddies and non-buddies. Mr Lewis guests of Her Majesty in that so-called has a rather touching faith in the fine personal correctional facility were trying to extort money integrity of his guests because he revealed at from a prominent Brisbane businesswoman by the time that prisoners had actually put forward making threats to a relative of hers who was also their own code of conduct for the scheme. an inmate. Detective Sergeant John Harris of the Under this code, inmates who are found to be in Corrective Services Commission Investigation breach would be demoted back to the ranks. We Unit confirmed publicly that several prisoners could all imagine what a frightful social stigma and were being questioned over the matter, and the what a deeply scarring personal experience that general manager of the gaol, Mr Kevin Lewis, would be for the average murderer, rapist or also confirmed that an investigation was under thug. Officers at the gaol have already reported way. Amazingly, Mr Lewis confirmed that gaol that one of these buddies had assaulted another authorities had found a mobile phone and prisoner, that buddies are openly displaying battery charger which was being used as part of insubordinate behaviour to the point of refusing Legislative Assembly 7965 28 April 1994 to give officers their names as they roam virtually member for Crows Nest and his efforts to provide at will around the gaol, and that all officers are in a humanitarian face of the National Party. This is fear of assault themselves. in stark contrast to the master of floggings, the In north Queensland, conditions at the member for Keppel, who provides a very Lotus Glen Correctional Centre are also different face of the National Party. They certainly appalling. Earlier this year, staff at that gaol give us the impression of the National Party that issued a lengthy media statement. Part of that we have always had, that is, that it can never be statement said— consistent, even within its own ranks. "Officers at Lotus Glen Correctional The Corrective Services (Administration) Centre are concerned that the Amendment Bill 1994 is, in many respects, a overcrowding at the prison may lead to mechanical type of Bill which will have a highly health and safety risks to both officers and visible or immediate effect upon the policies and inmates. The situation has become so direction of the Queensland Corrective Services critical that an increasing number of inmates Commission. However, the benefits of these are being asked to share cells designed for amendments will be felt in the years ahead by one on a voluntary basis at present. Two commission staff and members of the public. The inmates are required to cohabit within a proposed amendments to the legislation are living space of approximately 2.8 by 2.4 necessary to achieve the orderly implementation metres. Conceivably the inmate who elects of the recommendations of the Public Sector or otherwise to sleep on the floor may have Management Commission's review of the his head closer than four feet away from the Queensland Corrective Services Commission. toilet bowl or shower recess. Quite apart The review, as honourable members would be from the health implications, this practice will aware, was conducted in accordance with the lead to an increase in sexual crime and existing legislation. standover tactics within the prison to the The review reported to Parliament on the detriment of the young and the performance of the commission after five years of impressionable inmate. operation and recommended changes to The public may not be aware that this improve on that performance. From a public point prison houses quite a number of youthful of view, the most visible effect of these offenders as young as 17 and it would be a amendments to the legislation will be a change to tragedy indeed for a family to have their son the basis upon which board members are traumatised by an unsolicited sexual selected. I am sure Mr Cooper would probably experience within our centre as a result of refer to this process as one of those terrible standover facilitated by this dangerous processes that the National Party bleats about as policy." being things sent off to committees, etc., but, again, this is a process which did not operate out That is coming from the State's prison officers. of Bjelke-Petersen House, it was a legitimate That is only part of that statement. It provides a process which is open to public scrutiny and chilling revelation of the black hole conditions at which now has very concrete and sensible that gaol. The officers there are obviously very outcomes. concerned about the health and welfare of all inmates, especially the younger ones. One of these amendments has been passed. A newly constituted board of the I draw the Minister's attention to these many Queensland Corrective Services Commission will aspects in the Corrective Services Commission be appointed on the basis of members' expertise and in the system generally. This is information or experience relevant to functions of the coming to me—it is not dreamt up or made up—it commission. This is a departure from the existing comes directly from either the 1992-93 annual basis of appointment which requires affiliation of report, from the PSMC report or from prison commissioners with specific community interest officers at the gaols who have only one thing in groups. mind, that is, the betterment of the system: they have no vested interest in playing politics; they There are a number of other principal want to serve their system well, as once they objectives of this amendment Bill. One principal were allowed to do. Since this Government came objective is to establish a transitional to power, the situation in these gaols, as I have arrangement whereby current commissioners described, is even worse. vacate office on a date to be fixed and the newly appointed commissioners assume office for Mr FENLON (Greenslopes) (9.43 p.m.): I terms not exceeding three years. This will allow rise to speak in support of the Corrective commissioners to be appointed for terms of less Services (Administration) Amendment Bill. I am than three years. The advantage of this is that it amazed to still hear the meanderings of the 28 April 1994 7966 Legislative Assembly allows for a turnover of commissioners while In his final report, however, Mr Kennedy ensuring continuity of board membership. suggested significant changes to his Another principal objective of the recommendations about the composition of the amendment Bill dealing with board membership board. This was necessary as the board would provides that people employed by the have included only three members of the Queensland Corrective Services Commission, or community—a rather debilitating factor if the entering into contracts with the commission, are board was supposed to be representative of the not eligible for appointment as commissioners. community. Eventually, Mr Kennedy added two Other single amendments from a staff point of additional representatives, one from the view have also been embodied in this Aboriginal community and one from rural amendment Bill. Queensland. He also recommended that the chairman be a business person with a successful The commission will be declared a unit of track record of management and experience with the public sector within the meaning of the boards. The chief executive officer of the Public Sector Management Commission Act commission, who became known as the director- 1990. It will extend to commission employees general, did not accept appointment to the the same appeal rights as enjoyed by officers of board, leaving it with an initial membership of the public service. It will also ensure that the eight. jurisdiction of the Industrial Relations Commission extends to Corrective Services Under the amendments now before the Commission employees who believe they have House, the section of the Corrective Services been unfairly dismissed and seek reinstatement. (Administration) Act which provides for the director-general to be a commissioner has been Today, I wish to confine my remarks to those deleted. Since the establishment of the board, amendments which will change the criteria for its composition has changed slightly, with the appointment of commissioners. In his interim under secretary of the Minister's department report of the Commission of Review into being replaced by another community Corrective Services in Queensland in May 1988, representative. Mr Jim Kennedy recommended the establishment of a statutory body to be called the The proposed amendments in this Bill will Queensland Corrective Services Commission. make the board even more community focused. The body would take over the functions, role, All members will be representatives of the responsibilities and staff of the Queensland community. The provision for two staff Prison Service and the Queensland Probation representatives has been deleted, leaving the and Parole Service. way open for two more members of the community. The biggest change, however, will This initial recommendation proposed a be in the criteria for the appointment of the board of seven members who would include the commissioners. These amendments will do away under-secretary of the Department of Corrective with the requirement for appointees to be Services in a non-executive capacity, five other affiliated with specific community interest groups. non-executive members, including the chairman, and that a position be created for the chief The amendments concerning the executive of the commission to be called composition of the board do not ignore Jim director-general, and that he or she be the only Kennedy's wish to draw a wide range of executive board member. The independent representation from the Queensland community part-time chairman was to have a track record of into the provision of corrective services in this success and a demonstrated capacity to "make it State. In fact, the amendments have the happen". potential to broaden this representation. Interest group representation on the board has the The other four positions on the board would potential for appointees to be preoccupied with be filled by a person with legal qualifications and their constituency rather than the community as a a demonstrated interest in civil liberties and whole. The problems of having a board with corrective services, a person who could specific representation were identified in the adequately represent the church and welfare PSMC report, which stated— groups and who had a knowledge of corrective services in Queensland, a suitable "Any problems the Review has representative from the prison staff after identified with the current Board consultation with the Queensland State Service membership do not reflect difficulties with Union, and a suitable representative from the individual members. Rather, they pertain to probation and parole staff after consultation with the logic underlying the Board's structure the Professional Officers Association. and purpose. In particular, the notion of a 'representative' Board poses problems. It is Legislative Assembly 7967 28 April 1994
extremely difficult to ensure that members and met a number of members of the board. It are truly representative of their interest seemed to me that it was skewed a little bit the group constituencies, especially when wrong way. I believe that the way this board is these constituencies are large and internally constituted will probably improve it a great deal. diverse. I wish to speak about the right of Concern was also expressed to the compensation. I can mention this now or raise it Review team that, in some cases, the at the Committee stage. I ask the Minister why appointments did not appear to fulfil the there is no right of compensation for those category specified in the legislation." people who are no longer on the board. There is The amendments before the House today no right of compensation for them. remove references to interest groups and place Mr Braddy: Why should there be? emphasis on the selection of commissioners on Mr CONNOR: Their positions have merit to represent the entire community. While ceased. I was wondering why the Minister felt the PSMC advanced the view that membership that they did not deserve any compensation. should reflect extensive knowledge of, or Anyway, I will move on. experience in, corrections generally, industrial relations or the law, this comment was not I understand that, under the Public Sector reflected in the recommendation. Indeed, there Management Commission Act of 1990, the is concern that strict adherence to that comment commission would be a unit of the public sector. could result in the appointment of Initially, I hoped that this would mean that it would commissioners with a narrow representative come under the scrutiny of the Criminal Justice base. I strongly support the proposed Act and would become a unit of public amendments. In doing so, I wish to make it very administration so that we would see an additional clear that this support can in no way be level of accountability that the CJC would allow. construed to reflect any dissatisfaction with the But I have been informed that it does not. The performance of the current or past board PCJC has made particular recommendations, members. and I ask the Minister to explain why the commission is still not a unit of public Queenslanders owe a debt of gratitude to all administration. those who have served, for varying lengths of time, on the board since its inception in I understand that the Criminal Justice December 1988. Two of those members, Mr Bob Commission is in a position to investigate Mullholland and Mr Bunny Powne, have been on corruption but it is unable to investigate official the board since day one—Mr Powne being the misconduct. With the level of public funds that is deputy chairman. Their contribution is specifically being administered in the commission, it should acknowledged today, as they have shouldered come under that scrutiny. I realise that it would an onerous burden for more than five years and come under the scrutiny of the Auditor-General, have contributed enormously over that time. The but I believe that the official misconduct aspect amount of time, effort and expertise they have needs to be considered as well. put into it far outweighs the small financial There are a couple of issues that may come remuneration they have received. close to this. I do not want to make a big deal of It is desirable that these amendments are this. The particular informant who gave me this passed through the House so that the information will have to remain anonymous reconstituted board of the Queensland because that person does not have the Corrective Services Commission can oversee safeguards of the whistleblowers legislation. I the implementation of the PSMC was informed that at Numinbah prison prisoners recommendations. I commend these are being charged approximately $50 a day to be amendments to the House. carted to the coast in the bus. That money is being taken in cash with no receipt. The day Mr CONNOR (Nerang) (9.55 p.m.): I seek release prisoners are being hit for around $200 a some clarification from the Minister about a week. I do not believe that the commission would number of general issues and some associated look on that particularly favourably. It might like to with my electorate. I am generally supportive of look into that a bit more closely. the changes to the board. I understand that this was done as a direct result of the PSMC's Mr Pearce: You've got a lot of credibility recommendations. They were broadly with the CJC, anyway, so keep coming. consultative in their community, and it was not Mr CONNOR: We will see about that in the before time. I only wish that it had happened a future. Another area of concern relates to an couple of years earlier. I do not believe that the article that appeared in the Sunday Mail of 24 board was as balanced as it should have been. I April about the 10 most wanted criminals. I refer went to the opening of the Arthur Gorrie Centre particularly to the section relating to Wayne John 28 April 1994 7968 Legislative Assembly
Morell, 33, who was serving 11 years and eight Mr Braddy: That's if you're accurate. months for break and entering offences and who Mr CONNOR: I can assure the Minister absconded from a halfway house at Paddington that I am accurate. I have given the Minister the on 22 March this year. I gather that house was in dates and times. If he wishes, I will give him the Kennigo Street. This raises a few questions. computer print-out. I draw the Minister's attention to the fact that I turn to the sale of the Boggo Road site. I Mr Morell had escaped on two previous would specifically like to mention two articles. occasions. First of all, he escaped on 20 January The first, by David Fagan, appeared in the 1991 in the company of two of the worst criminals Australian dated 3 November 1993 under the in Queensland, one of whom was Aston, he heading "Private jail companies eye Boggo Road escaped from the maximum security Sir David prison" and states— Longland prison, which at the time was Queensland's highest security prison. He was "Two private companies have bid to involved in "The Great Escape" in which eight take over the closed Brisbane Jail and prisoners escaped from Moreton prison, as the adjoining women's prison in a move that shadow Minister mentioned earlier. On 9 July he paves the way for a third private jail in escaped with seven other of the most notorious Queensland." criminals in Queensland. As the Minister will Further on it states— remember, there was an inquiry into that. In a "The managing director of Australian period of only a few months Morrell escaped from Corrective Services, Mr Wayne Calabrees, two of the maximum security prisons in said yesterday that he did not want to detail Queensland. I would imagine that he would have the company's plans except to say that it been charged and convicted and had cumulative was bidding for the whole site with the sentences added onto his eleven years and property developer, Thiess Contractors. eight months. As I understand it, under the Corrective Service Act he is liable to three year's The secretary of Corrections imprisonment—cumulative—for each of those Corporation of Australia, Mr John Toomey, offences. One would assume that he would get a said his company wanted to relocate the sentence of at least one or two years for each women's jail so the vacated jail site could be offence, which would mean that his sentence redeveloped by its partner, developer would then be around 15 years. Barclay-Mowlem." A couple of years later he escaped from Another article of 19 February 1994, also in the Paddington, on 22 March. To be at Paddington Australian, also by David Fagan, and headed he has to be on open security. How was it that "Boggo Road sale" states— someone with that record could have achieved "Reopening Brisbane's notorious an open security classification to be at Boggo Road jail is back on the agenda after Paddington? It does not seem reasonable that the Queensland Government cancelled someone like Morrell could have been given that plans to sell it for redevelopment. open security classification to allow him to Seven development groups that escape for the third time in only a couple of submitted expressions of interest in new years. I would like the Minister to clarify that. I will uses for the inner-city jail site have been told bring it up again at the Committee stage if he their plans were neither desirable nor wishes, but I think that needs clarification. financially advantageous to the Mr Braddy: What needs clarification? Government. Mr CONNOR: Why he was able to get an The future of the jail has been put back open security classification. in the hands of a committee of senior Mr Braddy: I do not have all prisoners' government bureaucrats chaired by a records in Queensland here with me tonight. Corrective Services Commission official." Mr CONNOR: He is a three-time escapee. The article further states— Mr Braddy: You are saying that. I don't "One suggestion—already floated by have his file here with me, so how can I answer? Queensland's Public Sector Management Commission—is that the jail site could be Mr CONNOR: His classification is an used as a United States-style 'justice administrative decision, as the Minister knows. It precinct.' is not parole. Mr Macionis, who is sitting in the lobby, should have some idea of why he was This would involve redevelopment of given that classification. It seems totally the 20-year-old section of the jail as a mix of unreasonable that someone with that sort of remand and watchhouse cells with adjoining record would be sent to a halfway house. court facilities." Legislative Assembly 7969 28 April 1994
The Minister cannot say that that had not been thorough probe of the death in line with considered because some of the commission's their claim that they run the nation's most documents have shown that it has. I would like open jail system. the Minister to clarify exactly what stage that is at, They said Borey's death would be the especially given that the Government went to the subject of investigations by the police and polls in 1989, as did the now Opposition, with a an official independent inspector appointed cast-iron guarantee that Boggo Road would not by the commission. All would eventually be be re-opened. As honourable members have made clear, they claimed, at a coroner' court seen, the commission's documents show quite hearing. clearly that that has been considered. People are now bidding for the site and all sorts of other This might be right in theory, but it is things are going on. I know the unions certainly simply untrue. History proves this. would not be very enthralled with the prospect, Only last week the commission and I would like the Minister to clarify that. rejected an application by The Courier-Mail As honourable members know, the under the Freedom of Information Act for whistleblowers legislation comes under the the official Inspector's report into the Criminal Justice Act. That legislation is not October 1991 death of prisoner David properly protecting the people in the Corrective Eames in Townsville's Stuart Prison. Services Commission. The Minister would be The excuse was that if such aware that Professor De Maria has been doing documents were made public, inspectors detailed studies into whistleblowers and that he probing future deaths in custody would is having regular fortnightly meetings. He has have difficulty persuading witnesses like found that the biggest percentage of disaffected prison guards and jail inmates to tell the whistleblowers in Queensland are those from truth. Corrective Services Commission. Information The Eames case is chilling testimony to from informants cannot be taken to an in-depth the need for reform to make examinations of inquiry because none of them is prepared to deaths in custody more public. come forward; they cannot get the proper protections that is afforded as a result of the Eames was a child molester bashed to whistleblowers section of the Criminal Justice death in the jail's gymnasium with Act. If they had those protections they would be weightlifting equipment. He was beaten so coming to the Minister instead of coming to me badly that his brains were literally spilling out and the shadow Minister. They fear that the of his head." moment that anything is mentioned in this place, That is what is going on in the prisons, and it in the media or anywhere else that, instead of the is going on mainly because whistleblowers great force of the Government trying to get to the cannot go to the Minister. Until the Minister sorts bottom of the problem, it will concentrate on who out that problem and makes the commission a is the whistleblower in order to destroy the unit of public administration and therefore person. The Minister's job would be much easier subject to the Criminal Justice Act, we will if he afforded whistleblowers some protection. continue to have the problems that we are Then they would come to him. I bring to the experiencing. Minister's attention a story in the Courier-Mail of 4 Mr NUTTALL (Sandgate) (10.11 p.m.): In April by Matthew Franklin which I think sums up addressing the Corrective Services this subject. The article states— (Administration) Amendment Bill, one would "When is an open investigation not an have to say that, in this State, only the ill- open investigation? When it involves the informed would deny great advances have been death of a person in a Queensland jail. made in the administration of Corrective Services Official claims that the weekend death in this State in the past few years. in custody of Aborigine Anthony Borey, 19, The decision made in this Parliament six will be fully and openly investigated should years ago to set up the Queensland Corrective be seen for what they are—absolute Services Commission transcended party lines. rubbish. All members saw the need for change—only the Borey was found hanging in his cell at reasons for change were different. At that time, the privately-run Arthur Gorrie Correctional the former National Party administration was Centre on Saturday morning—apparently teetering from crisis to crisis. It was in its dying the sixth suicide in the jail since it opened months when it finally came to the realisation it nearly two years ago. could no longer neglect such an important area of the criminal justice system as corrections and Corrective Services Commission decided to do something about it. spokesmen then outlined plans for a 28 April 1994 7970 Legislative Assembly
In fact, the present Opposition spokesman Commission comes in way down the list at No. for Corrective Services could, in those days, see 19. I am referring to all local, State and Federal political mileage in it and used it to launch his ill- Government bodies. fated leadership bid. Obviously, the member for When we consider State Government Surfers Paradise should keep this in mind and departments and agencies alone, the should keep looking over his shoulder in the commission comes in fourteenth in the list of months to come. staff numbers. As a comparison, the Queensland In contrast, the present Government, when Department of Education has almost 40 000 in Opposition, had been pressing for years for employees on its payroll and about 8 000 part- meaningful change—not the occasional patch- time employees. The Department of Social up job that the then Government was Security, to quote statistics from a orchestrating. The conservatives had adopted a Commonwealth instrumentality, has almost 4 000 piecemeal approach to corrections year after employees in Queensland alone. The Brisbane year. There always seemed to be an inquiry City Council, being another example, employs under way, but nothing ever eventuated. more than 7 000 people, and even the Gold We can look back over the Bredhauer Coast City Council employs approximately 1 400. inquiry, the McNamara inquiry and the Sir David From these figures we can see that the Longland inquiry, to name a few. All of those Corrective Services Commission carries out a inquiries identified serious deficiencies but, as I difficult and essential duty while running as a said, it all came to nothing. well-oiled unit. The PSMC has recommended The brief given to Jim Kennedy in the commission be a unit of the public sector 1988—the time when scandals were being aired within the meaning of the Public Sector almost daily in the Fitzgerald inquiry—came as a Management Commission Act 1990. That helps breath of fresh air. At last this serious problem to streamline the public sector and make it run was being addressed. more efficiently. The achievements of the Corrective In 1988, Jim Kennedy, in his exhaustive Services Commission have been impressive. review of Queensland corrections, identified a Dramatic change has taken place over its first five number of issues affecting staff. He said there years, and the PSMC has recognised this. The could be no doubt at all that the occupation of PSMC has also recognised a need for some correctional staff carried with it stress and trauma, finetuning. This was only to be expected after which impacted on families. such an experiment. Bugs were identified and, Under the heading of "Staff" he identified of course, these had to be ironed out. corruption in the old service as a problem that In this debate, I would like to address the had to be addressed quite urgently. He said changes in the Corrective Services Act that inadequate screening took place in the affect staff of the commission. Even though the recruitment of officers and essential ongoing commission is a small public sector employer, training was almost non-existent. Jim Kennedy there are only about 1 600 people on the payroll recommended that all staff be transferred from throughout the State. They have an essential the control of the public service to an role to fulfil. On any one day there are around "independent" commission that was to be 2 300 inmates in Queensland's 11 correctional separate from the provisions of the Public centres and more than 16 000 offenders under Service Act. supervision in the community. Over a 12-month This approach brought about efficiencies in period, about 5 000 people are sentenced to a the organisation, but staff were placed at some term of imprisonment. disadvantage. Remember, Jim Kennedy, Obviously, these figures are more than stark although once an unsuccessful Labor candidate statistics; they represent human lives—people for this Parliament, is a businessman who built who have offended against society and people quite an empire out of electrical appliances and who do not want to be in gaol or restricted by a tourism. Also, at the time of the review, he was community order. In the main, they are angry and working for a National Party Government—the difficult people. same National Party Government that destroyed the livelihoods of power workers and ran The people who work with them have a roughshod over workers' rights for more than 30 difficult job to do. Of course, theirs is a job that years. not everyone can do. It takes a certain type of individual to confront the criminal element in a The amendments now before the House stark atmosphere on a daily basis. Of the top 25 ensure that all employees of the commission will public sector employers in Queensland—top in have access to the same appeal rights and terms of staff numbers—the Corrective Services appeal structure available to public sector Legislative Assembly 7971 28 April 1994 employees. The Minister has already told the course, is located in my electorate. The particular House that the PSMC examined grievance issue that I want to raise has been raised by me in procedures and the appeal mechanisms that are this Parliament before, but never before with this available to commission employees. In the Minister, and I think that it might be timely for me interests of equity and consistency, it was to restate my concerns about a number of considered by the PSMC that Public Sector issues. Management standards and appeal rights should Lotus Glen is a large, modern prison apply to commission officers and employees. complex. I was rather pleased to hear an Efficiency alone dictates that all human announcement not too long ago about an resource management standards established by expansion of accommodation facilities at the the PSMC are adopted by the Corrective prison farm. That was much needed. At least 12 Services Commission. Adoption of the various cells had double prisoner accommodation, procedures will minimise the need for the something for which the prison was not Corrective Services Commission to reinvent the designed. That was entirely unfair to the wheel by establishing its own standards. The use prisoners themselves and to the warders looking of the public sector grievance and appeal after them. mechanisms will preclude the need to constitute The particular concern that I wish to address separate Queensland Corrective Services for a couple of minutes tonight relates to the Commission panels for these purposes. repatriation of prisoners from Lotus Glen to their Obviously, cost savings are considerable. area of origin. The Minister would be aware that An added bonus of recognition of the from time to time our prisoner population is QCSC as a unit of the public sector may be that it upwards to 80 per cent of ATSI origin. Most of could assist in improving staff mobility and those persons would come from the peninsula recruitment. At present, the recruitment of region. Few of those people would be specialist staff and managers from within the considered homeless, in so far as they come public sector poses some difficulties because of from the peninsula settlements of Aurukun, the loss of some conditions on movement. Lockhart, and so on. When a person in that part Permanent tenure, of course, is the most of the country offends, we go to an awful lot of obvious. trouble and expense to investigate the offence, The PSMC review noted that the arrest the alleged offender, and transport the commission had developed some exemplary alleged offender to Cairns by air. That offender is human resource management procedures over then put on remand through the court system. its first five years, although need for change in Some of those people sitting on the esplanade relation to recruitment and selection, today are persons on remand waiting for trial. performance, planning and review, and We have a burgeoning problem of grievance procedures and appeals have been homelessness in Cairns, which may well be identified. addressed by what I am speaking about this With these amendments now before the evening. There is the expense of the trial and House, the Government is not setting out to then, of course, the fairly vast expense of the make any major policy changes. What we are incarceration of these people. However, at the setting out to do is in accordance with the end of day, when they are released from prison, recommendations of the Public Sector there is a major failure in respect of the Management Commission. The speed at which repatriation of those people to their home the Government has acted in implementing the place—their place of origin. It is my PSMC recommendations— remember the report understanding that they are taken into Mareeba was hande d down only l ast and given a bus ticket, which I understand they December—indicates its commitment to the cannot redeem for money. But that does not ongoing reform process. necessarily mean that they will return to their place of origin, particularly since we do not have a The inclusion of the Queensland Corrective lot of buses that run to Aurukun, Kowanyama Services Commission as a unit of the public and places of that nature. It is a matter of grave sector will ensure that commission employees concern to me that a major town such as have the full and immediate benefits that flow Mareeba, which is a willing host of a large from this new status. I commend the correctional institution, is to a degree suffering amendments to the House. from the flotsam and jetsam of society who, once Mr GILMORE (Tablelands) (10.20 p.m.): In released from prison, are then left in the street joining this debate tonight, there are a number of and become part and parcel of the furniture of issues that I would like to raise with the Minister in Mareeba and the surrounding district rather than respect of the Lotus Glen prison which, of 28 April 1994 7972 Legislative Assembly returning to their place of origin. I think it is where the paddy-wagon parks and lets people entirely unfortunate. out to catch the bus. The system is not Over the past four or five years, there has functioning properly. Some of these people are been a burgeoning population of people—not probably going home. I would appreciate it if the only people of ATSI origin but also white Minister would address this fairly important issue. persons—who have spent a little time at Her Mr PYKE (Mount Ommaney) (10.27 p.m.): I Majesty's pleasure and who have then chosen to rise to speak in support of the Corrective stay in Mareeba and surrounding districts. We Services (Administration) Amendment Bill. It is have a fairly large Aboriginal population in hard to imagine a more contentious and difficult Mareeba. It is estimated to be between 700 and area of public administration than corrective 1 200 people. An expanding number of those services. Everyone, as we have heard tonight, people are considered to be homeless. has an opinion on the subject. Members Therefore, there are some problems. Some of opposite know how easy it is to misrepresent the those people also drift over the range after they facts and score a cheap political point. We only have been released from prison, and find have to listen to the ramblings and rantings of the themselves as part of the developing member for Keppel and see the resultant homelessness problem in Cairns. publicity splash that he received over his call to Mr Deputy Speaker, you would be aware of flog criminals to understand just how true that these problems, because the people about remark is. whom I speak have their origins in your It is imperative that we do not lose sight of electorate. This is a very important issue for your the fact that under the conservatives—more constituents, Mr Deputy Speaker, and for mine. particularly the National Party, in the dying years This State, as part of our criminal justice and of the Joh era—prison conditions were still corrections system, should take every possible languishing in what could only be described as opportunity and, as a matter of course, see to it the Dickensian age, with despair and that persons who have been through the criminal hopelessness being the order of the day. justice system are repatriated by aeroplane back Reform had to come—belated as it to their place of origin. They should not just be was—because anyone could see that a string of given a bus ticket and told, "Son, help yourself. National Party Ministers could no longer paper Catch a bus if you will." The inevitable result of over the cracks in a decaying system and sweep that exercise is that those people will not go the hard issues under the carpet. We might well home. I would hate what I am saying to be ask whatever happened to such enlightened misunderstood. I am not suggesting that we National Party Ministers for Corrective Services need to start bussing people around the country as Muntz, Neal, Henderson, Clauson and against their will. I am just suggesting that people Sherrin? I have not seen them in this House for a should be returned to their place of origin. long time, although one did take up residence in There is a mechanism through which we the big house that used to be called Boggo might do that—that is, the correctional managers' Road for a time. We have not forgotten that, have prerogative in respect of early release. We we? should use that mechanism to ensure that It is to this Government's credit that the people who are released from custody are reform process recommended by the Kennedy released at their town of origin. The Minister is review of Queensland Corrective Services has not particularly interested in this, but it would be been kept on track and corrections in useful if that were the case. That is a mechanism Queensland are now the envy of other by which we can say to these people, "You are jurisdictions across Australia and overseas. not released in the town of Mareeba; you are Reform cannot be static; it is an ongoing technically released in your home place. When process. For this reason, some finetuning has to you get off that aeroplane, you are a free be carried out to the original Kennedy-inspired person." If they then choose to go back to legislation. Cairns, Mareeba or somewhere else, they are free Australians—free to do as they will and go One of the principal objectives of this Bill is where they will. I have no argument with that. But to establish a transitional arrangement whereby it is absolutely imperative that we take this step in current commissioners vacate office on a date to relation to our corrections system. be fixed and the appointed commissioners assume office for terms not exceeding three I have raised this matter on a number of years. However, board members can still be occasions. I keep getting fobbed off by people appointed for more than one term. Allowing saying, "Look, we have a system in place. We do commissioners to be appointed for terms of less this and we do that." I know that it does not work. than three years permits turnover of While I have not actually seen it for myself, I know Legislative Assembly 7973 28 April 1994 commissioners, while at the same time ensuring arrangements will ensure that these principles continuity of board membership. are not diminished. In his original review, Jim Kennedy saw the The amendments now being debated also need to draw on a wide range of representation disqualify persons employed by the commission from the Queensland community to preside over or those who enter into contracts with the the administration of Corrective Services. The commission from serving as commissioners. This changes now being considered allow for this is an obvious reform as it ensures, as the range to be widened. The stipulation that Honourable the Minister pointed out, that there commissioners serve for three-year periods also can be no conflict of interest. As the Minister also posed difficulties, which are being addressed by said, it is not easy for commission employees to this amendment. The new arrangement which reconcile their responsibilities in the work place allows for commissioners to serve for periods of with those they assume as members of the not more than three years provides the flexibility board. Members opposite might try to make to stagger the turnover of board members. The some political mileage out of this amendment, obvious main advantage is that the situation in but then again they see nothing wrong with a which all or a large number of commissioners conflict of interest. Need I remind them that this is could be terminated at the same time can now be post-Fitzgerald Queensland. The era of self- avoided. interest and no accountability is over. This system works well in Canberra, where Mr SANTORO (Clayfield—Deputy Leader half Senate elections provide for continuity and of the Liberal Party) (10.33 p.m.): I take this stability in the Upper House. There is a close opportunity to support the honourable member analogy between the Senate and the policy- for Crows Nest in his role as shadow Minister for making body of the Queensland Corrective Police and Corrective Services. I share his Services Commission. Allowing commissioners abhorrence of the farcical administration of the to be appointed for terms of less than three years Queensland corrective services system. permits a turnover of contributors to the Members opposite may be asking why I have decision-making process while ensuring decided to contribute to this debate. I do so to continuity. One clear benefit of this is that represent my constituents, who ring me Corrective Services can draw on a broader basis constantly about the farcical situation that exists of life experiences. within the corrective services system. I repeat If we are to break the cycle of despair, that the administration of the Queensland destruction and frustration once so prevalent in corrective services system is an utter farce, the prison system, we have to ensure that reform except that it has never been funny. is ongoing. There is no place for stagnation in My constituents telephone me often and this Government's aims for a secure correctional express grave concern about the revolving-door system but also one that allows for rehabilitation policy in operation at Queensland custodial and self-development. When Jim Kennedy facilities. They want to know why they open the carried out his exhaustive review of corrective Sunday Mail at page 17 and discover that killers, services—both prisons and community-based rapists and armed robbers manage to get corrections—six years ago, he called for and themselves on home detention and release-to- received submissions from a broad range of work schemes, and then simply walk away, interest groups. By taking note of this positive sometimes to commit their next violent offence input, he was able to make meaningful the very day they abscond. I listened to the recommendations for change. In a similar honourable member for Mount Ommaney. He fashion, the ability of the new board to draw on a calls this Fitzgerald-inspired reform. wider range of experiences will also produce Mr Cooper: Ask him does he believe in long and short-term benefits for all the whistleblowers. Queenslanders. Mr SANTORO: I ask the honourable Jim Kennedy saw the appointment of an member: do you believe in whistleblowing at that autonomous statutory body with its own board level? and subject to ministerial direction as such an important element of reform that he devoted a Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Bredhauer): great deal of attention to it in his final report. He Order! The member should direct his remarks stressed the need for the board to be through the Chair. representational. Especially, he saw the need for Mr SANTORO: Of course, Mr Deputy the board to provide openness and to ensure Speaker. that the interests and views of the community My constituents want to know why the were adequately catered for. The new Secretary of the State Public Services Federation has stated that the lack of resources 28 April 1994 7974 Legislative Assembly in probation and parole is putting the community imprisonment and appropriate medical at risk. People in my electorate want to know why supervision as an effective method of drying out they are in physical danger as a result. Those are habitual property offenders supporting their drug legitimate questions, and the Minister should not habit. However, in prison, inmates experience a dismiss them easily or with any degree of situation which sees them literally going from the flippancy and cynicism. frying pan into the fire. What a disgrace this The mismanagement of the corrective situation represents! What an absolutely services system has its most frightening effects outrageous situation! inside the prison system. In what may be an Mr Cooper: You have mentioned a unprecedented situation, the manager of the Sir number of things wrong with the prison system. David Longland Correctional Centre stated late There surely couldn't be anything else go wrong last year that he was no longer in control of the with it! facility. This was not during a riot or prison mutiny. Mr SANTORO: I see that the Honourable He was talking about the everyday running of the Minister for Employment, Training and Industrial prison! Relations is in the Chamber. I bet that fairly An Opposition member: What a shortly the prisoners will be into enterprise shocking admission! bargaining. Mr SANTORO: It was a shocking An Opposition member interjected. admission, but nevertheless we hear Mr SANTORO: That is right. People refer Government members such as the member for to declining strikes in this State and in Australia. Mount Ommaney make pathetic excuses for the One of the reasons for that is that the unions situation and dubbing it as reform. I wish the have all they ever wanted, and the prisoners member's constituents could read his speech—if union—— only he had the courage to circulate it to them. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I An Opposition member: We might do suggest that the member return to the contents that for him. of the Bill before the House. Mr SANTORO: We might. We should Mr Braddy interjected. circulate that speech and attach the statistics that tell the woeful tale of the corrective services Mr SANTORO: The Minister said, "Sit him system in Queensland. I would like to know down." I am getting back to the prisoners union. precisely the opinions of the constituents of the They will not need to undertake any enterprise member for Mount Ommaney on this issue. I bargaining, even though in an absolutely challenge the honourable member to circulate misdirected and unsound way, the Honourable his speech. The admission by the manager of Minister for Employment, Training and Industrial that correctional facility was a disgraceful Relations will probably try to exercise control over manifestation that this Government has their actions. absolutely no control over its prisoners policy. I This Parliament is indebted to the suppose that, if he wants to make it a real honourable the member for Crows Nest for contest, the member for Mount Ommaney uncovering in February that the system of should also circulate this speech and perhaps "randomly" strip searching inmates after contact the speech by the member for Crows Nest. visits is not random at all. An official commission Mr Beattie interjected. directive indicates that a list of the prisoners to be searched is prepared the day before, and Mr SANTORO: If you believe that this sources inside the gaol confirmed that that list speech is so bad, I challenge you to circulate it, was circulated to prison officers and posted in because by definition—— areas to which certain inmates had access. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The Should we be surprised that heroin is easily member will address his remarks through the obtainable in prisons? My constituents feel Chair. outraged about that state of affairs. I can see the Mr SANTORO: Of course, Mr Deputy Minister looking uncomfortable. This sort of fact Speaker. The member for Brisbane Central is going on the record day after day as the provoked me. honourable member for Crows Nest ferrets out the dastardly deeds of prisoners. They are able Both inmates and Queensland Corrective to perpetrate those dastardly deeds for the very Services Commission psychologists have stated simple reason that that sort of loose supervision publicly that heroin is more easily obtained in exists within the prison system. prison than on the street. That is an incredible and intolerable situation, especially considering I had the opportunity to listen to the that the courts view a short period of opening comments by the honourable member Legislative Assembly 7975 28 April 1994 for Sandgate, who said that the commission is Industrial Relations Commission, is a direct result doing a good job. This litany of woes and of this Government's irresponsible attitude dastardly deeds within the prison system towards prison accommodation. This certainly does not indicate that to be the case. Government believes that there are far too many Mr Braddy interjected. people in formal custody. Its solution is release to halfway houses, release to work, and home Mr SANTORO: The Minister is saying, detention. "Don't encourage him, don't interject." The Minister is afraid that I will continue to outline As I said, my constituents have only to look more dastardly deeds within the prison system. at page 17 of last weekend's Sunday Mail to see how effectively that works. Late last year, In March, the management of the Arthur Probation and Parole officers went public, saying Gorrie Remand and Reception Centre went into that they were so understaffed that murderers, a panic because a master key was lost and was rapists and armed robbers on parole were under believed to be held by inmates. A full-scale the lightest supervision. At least two murders search was initiated, only to be downgraded have been committed by persons under parole because of the cost of overtime required. So supervision. Important procedures such as home much for a genuine commitment to the proper visits are impossible to carry out. funding of a prison system that will keep the crooks in and the people outside safe from them! Mr Beattie interjected. Mr Cooper: Do you know how they finally Mr SANTORO: It is absolutely outrageous found the key? that the honourable member for Brisbane Central should make light of the speech that I am Mr SANTORO: I will come to that. I read delivering when one considers that he has stood the member's media releases very carefully, as up in this place and has told how his own home do many constituents of mine, and they are very and office have been vandalised and broken into concerned about the material contained therein. time after time. Thanks to the member for Crows Nest, the people of Queensland are not kept in the dark, Mr Beattie: Where were you on the night as Government members want them to be. The of the 13th? key was subsequently found. Management of Mr SANTORO: All that I can say is that it is the facility have refused to state where it was absolutely incredible that the honourable found and under what circumstances. One member for Brisbane Central is not rising in this wonders if the Honourable the Minister for place in support of this Bill. I do not see his name Corrective Services knows where it was found, on the speaking list. I do not see him lending and whether he is satisfied that it has not been support to the concerns of his constituents. All duplicated. Perhaps he may want to give an that I hear are inane interjections that clearly lead assurance to the House that after that key was members on this side of the Parliament and the found, it was not duplicated. I challenge the public of Queensland to despair. Minister to give that assurance that there is no Despite the obvious failure of these duplicate key wandering around. alternatives to formal custody, the Government Mr Cooper: Do you know what sort of bait continues with its intrepid agenda. Of course, they used to find the key? shutting down prisons looks good on the Mr SANTORO: The honourable member Government's resume, so in 1991 the Woodford should tell us. Prison was closed, which meant the loss of 272 beds. That created terrible accommodation Mr Cooper: Twenty packets of White Ox problems; but that is fine, the Government just tobacco. crammed a few more into the sub-human Mr SANTORO: Twenty packets of White conditions in Herschel Street. What a joke! Ox tobacco, and three days later it was found. Police officers are now being pulled off mobile That is the sort of currency that floats around. patrols to bolster watch-house guards, thus There is an underground system that sees our compounding the problems associated with the Corrective Services system utterly and totally out drastic shortage of police to do the real policing of control. work. Mr Springborg: Outrageous! The Goss Labor Government came into Mr SANTORO: As the honourable power determined to impose its social member for Warwick says, it is an outrageous engineering regime on all aspects of situation. The scandalous overcrowding of the Government, including Corrective Services, Brisbane watch-house, which has led to without any reference to reality. As far as international interest in watch-house conditions members on this side of the House are and an approach by the Police Union to the concerned, the Government is in space when it 28 April 1994 7976 Legislative Assembly comes to Corrective Services Commission The Director-General of the Corrective reforms. The result is fast becoming a Services Commission has made the front cover humanitarian scandal—three prisoners to a cell, of Time magazine, something that I know the insufficient blankets, prisoners refusing to eat honourable member for Brisbane Central aspires the food, an outbreak of scabies, and so on it to. Maybe he will if he becomes the Minister for goes. One cannot help becoming terribly Corrective Services and performs as abysmally as alarmed when presented with evidence that the present Minister and the Minister before him. prisoners are running their gaols. Mr Beattie: You want to get into In preparation for the Daniel Yock march in Penthouse. early April, prison officers at the Sir David Mr SANTORO: The honourable member Longland Centre were reduced to pleading with would not stand a chance of getting into that prisoners to volunteer for transfers to the lower magazine. I take that as a compliment from the security Borallon Correctional Centre because of honourable member for Brisbane Central. The expected accommodation problems after the Director-General of the Corrective Services march. Commission made the front page of Time Mr Cooper: And then they apologised to magazine, saying that gaols do not work because the prisoners later when the prisoners said they they turn hopeless people into bitter hopeless didn't want to go. people. What an admission! What an admission Mr SANTORO: Honourable members from a Government that prides itself on the have heard it from the Opposition spokesman. concept of rehabilitating prisoners. He visits the prisons and talks to the prison It claimed that one of the greatest reforms of officers. That is the sad, sorry tale that they tell: this Government is to actually rehabilitate when it comes to the running of the prisons, they prisoners so that when they leave the gaols and are out of control. They say that the prisoners are go back into the community, they are better running the show. It is an absolute disgrace. citizens. Yet the Director-General of the In the end, in relation to the incident that I Corrective Services Commission says that the was referring to, very few prisoners volunteered, gaols that this Minister and those people are and prison staff, as the honourable member for running—and I am glad that Mr Speaker is here to Crows Nest said, apologised to prisoners for any listen to this direct quote—turn the people who inconvenience caused. they are supposed to be rehabilitating from hopeless people into bitter hopeless people. In an admission of the incompetence and What a damnation of the Minister's system when short-sightedness of the 1991 decision, the those words are uttered by his director-general Honourable Premier has recently hinted that on the front page of Time magazine. Woodford was never actually closed, but only mothballed, and reactivating it was under Perhaps youths placed in prison would not consideration. Under those circumstances, it emerge quite so bitter if eight out of 10 of them seems a pity that the commission had to were not routinely raped. Perhaps the reform incur—and those people who believe that their process in prisons would be more effective if Government is one of fiscal responsibility should those communities were not allowed to be run by listen to this—a debt of $2.8m to fund a hierarchy of hardened criminals who control the redundancy packages for Woodford staff. Now sex, the drugs and the lives of other prisoners new staff will have to be located and trained. with violence. That is the sort of prison system Perhaps some of the superannuated ex- this Government is running, and that is the sort of employees of Woodford will get their old jobs situation that the Minister and all honourable back. members opposite have to come to grips with. Mr Beattie: Who wrote this? Management of the QCSC under the Milliner administration was an abject failure. I am Mr SANTORO: I will take the interjection saddened to say that the Braddy from the honourable member for Brisbane administration—and it does sadden me to have Central. I will tell him who wrote this speech. This to come into this place and say this—has speech was motivated and written by continued the same sorry tale. The House has constituents, including some of the member's before it the Corrective Services (Administration) constituents who ring me. This speech gives Amendment Bill. The Government has missed them a voice in this Parliament. This speech tells this opportunity to in fact bring in some real the Minister and people such as the member for reform. Rather than tampering at the edges, the Brisbane Central that they are utterly and totally Government should be bringing in real reform concerned about the breakdown of the prison that will restore law and order within the gaols system in Queensland. and, as a result, outside of gaols. Legislative Assembly 7977 28 April 1994
I join with the honourable member for Crows As to some of the other matters raised by Nest in asking: when will the Government turn its the honourable member—in common with him, I mind to solving the drastic problems being agree that serving public servants are not experienced in Corrective Services? Does it wish generally applicable or relevant to serve on to wait until an international human rights issue is Government boards. Whilst the Kennedy report created? If this Government is serious, it will get was generally a good report, it was wrong in that it on with the job of running prisons the way the recommended direct representation from two prisons should be run, rather than allow the areas of the staff on the board of the Corrective hopeless mess which exists and will continue. Services Commission. I believe that was wrong in The honourable member for Crows Nest will principle, and our experience in Government continue to talk about it until there is a change of shows it to be wrong in practice. That issue is Government when the job will be done well, and being addressed. It is not our Government's truly well. policy to appoint public servants to Government Hon. P. J. BRADDY (Rockhampton— boards. The honourable member can be assured Minister for Police and Minister for Corrective in that regard. Services) (10.50 p.m.), in reply: In relation to all As to the whistleblowers legislation— again, matters raised tonight, I thank Government the honourable member was wrong. As he members for their contributions, which were frequently does, he jumps from an equivocal relevant to the legislation before the answer—because the information is not House—unlike most of the contributions from available—to reading into it something that the the Opposition. I shall deal with some of the Minister does not say. One day in this Parliament, matters raised tonight in the short time available the honourable member asked me a question to me. As to other matters raised—I will have a about whistleblowers legislation. The legislation good look at some of the myriad of questions had not been prepared at that time, and I was not that poured from the member for Crows Nest to prepared—and, as an accountable Minister, will see whether some of them should be answered not be prepared—to give the honourable later by correspondence. The member raised a member a guarantee then and there. Therefore, couple of matters of importance that should be he jumped to the conclusion—— dealt with now. Mr Cooper: Will you support it? First of all, in relation to the Mr BRADDY: I ask the honourable recommendations of the PSMC report and the member to listen for a change. Therefore, the implementation of them—the honourable honourable member jumped to the member made a fatuous remark about how he conclusion—which he repeated tonight—that it had written to me and that I should be able to would not be covered by the whistleblowers nominate immediately tonight which ones of the legislation. All I said on that day was that I was not recommendations that he had nominated in that aware of the terms of the whistleblowers letter. Precious as he is, I must tell the legislation. As it was a question without notice, I honourable member that I do not carry around was not in a position to answer it. Since then, I with me letters that he writes to me. They pour in have made it my business to make sure that the with the usual fatuous questions, which he never situation was as I believed it was probably going bothers to ask in this House during question to be. The whistleblowers legislation will certainly time. I do not know why he does not use cover employees of the commission. I never, question time. ever said that it would not. At that time, I was not Mr Cooper interjected. prepared to give a direct guarantee that they Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Briskey): would be covered, because it was not my Order! The Minister will be heard. ministerial responsibility. I am assured by the drafters of the legislation—as I believed would Mr BRADDY: In relation to the always be the case—that the whistleblowers implementation—I can inform the House and the legislation will cover them. So the nonsense that honourable member that the PSMC and other poured from the honourable member tonight people who are relevant to the area have an was wasted. implementation committee. There will be an implementation report, which will spell out very Mr Cooper: Not wasted—I got an answer clearly the timetable. Of course, some of the out of it. timetables suggested by the PSMC have been Mr BRADDY: The honourable member able to be achieved. All of those timetables were said that I had categorically refused to agree to indicative. There is an implementation committee whistleblowers legislation covering employees of on which the PSMC serves. The implementation the commission. That was not true. Again, he has report is a matter of public record, and it will be been found wanting. released very soon. 28 April 1994 7978 Legislative Assembly
In relation to the memorial service for Mr CJC supervision. In all the circumstances, and Patrick—I wish to inform the House that that has after looking at the evidence, the decision was been delayed for two weeks; that, as of today, made by the Government—in effect, accepting the parents of the deceased have been invited what the PSMC did—not to make the to attend that memorial service, and that has commission subject to the CJC. been communicated to them. They will be very In relation to the medical treatment— again, welcome to attend that ceremony. the member for Crows Nest went on at some In relation to the actual events that occurred length. Again, he is out of date. Protocols were at that prison—it should also be borne in mind agreed in January this year between the Police that special arrangements were made for the Service and the Queensland Corrective Services supervision of Mr Patrick, as they were also made Commission in relation to medical treatment. The for Troy Porter, who is still there. It is now a matter honourable member's outburst in relation to that of tragic history that Mr Patrick died by suicide. was a waste of time and space. Therefore, the inquiries by the police, the Mr Cooper: The outburst comes from Dr Corrective Services Commission inspectors and John Lynch. the coroner will determine how it came about that, despite the fact that special arrangements Mr BRADDY: I am not talking about were entered into and special supervision was criticisms, I am talking about the protocols and organised, he was still able to commit suicide. the agreement—— That certainly will be revealed. However, it is a Mr Cooper: And the Minister for Health. matter of record that those warnings were not Mr BRADDY: The honourable member is ignored. Special arrangements certainly were on the wrong point. He does not even have the made but, as it turned out, they were not capacity to listen. I am not talking about the sufficiently successful. Therefore, everybody criticisms of the watch-house, I am talking about concerned who has a responsibility in that regard the honourable member's statements that the has to answer the questions that will come from police and the Queensland Corrective Services the various inquiries and investigations. Commission were not able to agree on the In relation to the matter of the CJC's protocols for medical treatment. They have, in suggestion some years ago that the Queensland fact, been agreed upon. They were agreed to in Corrective Services Commission should be January, and they are in place. covered by the CJC, there are a couple of things Mr Cooper: They're not working. to be said. First of all, the CJC—as I think several members opposite from time to time seem to Mr BRADDY: They are in place. The want to remind the public—does not run this honourable member did not know that. That is State. It is entitled to make some the way it goes. recommendations, and the Parliamentary In relation to the longstanding argument Criminal Justice Committee is entitled to consider about prison cells and watch-house cells and them, as is the Government. After taking into what the Government did in relation to account all that the CJC and the PCJC had said, a Woodford—let us face the facts. For a period subsequent inquiry by the PSMC recently after the building of the new correctional centres, recommended otherwise. As a Government, we and with our Government's policy, there was a have made a decision that, in the absence of a decline in the number of prisoners going to specific recommendation from the PSMC—the correctional centres. This was mainly because, latest and most relevant body to investigate the for the first time in Queensland, we stopped Corrective Services Commission—we accept the throwing hundreds of young prisoners into gaol situation. for being fine defaulters. There was a significant Mr Cooper interjected. drop-off rate for several years. At the time of the closing of the Woodford prison, there were 500 Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The vacant cells in Queensland— far more than the Minister will be heard. number of cells in one prison. Mr BRADDY: There is one specific area of As a result of the crackdown on crime, relevance that applies to the Corrective Services prisoners remain in gaol for longer periods. We Commission that does not apply to anywhere do not do what the National Party did—put else in Government. There is a body, namely, the young people in gaol for minor offences and fine Corrective Services Investigation Unit—a part of defaulting. If honourable members look at the the Police Service—which is there specifically as statistics, they will see a significant dropping off the watchdog over the staff and the operations— of people in gaol for minor offences and a in the criminal or corruption sense—of the significant increase in people in gaol for the major commission. No other section of the public and medium type offences. Now the time has service has that. In turn, the CSIU is subject to Legislative Assembly 7979 28 April 1994 well and truly arrived for the building of more cells Mr BRADDY: The Kennedy report and more prisons. As has been admitted by the revealed clearly that under Mr Cooper's Opposition, we have announced the building of administration all that was spent on training was the extra 300-plus cells in the four correctional $80,000, yet he has the hide to criticise this centres across the State. We have made no Government when we now spend $2.6m a year secret of the fact that that is not the end of the on training. The previous Government was an matter. absolute disgrace. Mr Connor: You'll need more. You'll need Mr Cooper: We recognise that—— double that. Mr BRADDY: After 32 years in power, he Mr BRADDY: We have made no bones now says, "We recognise that." They were in about that. There will be further cell construction. power for 32 years in a row, yet at the end of We will do our duty in that regard. We will make those 32 years they were spending $80,000 a the announcement when we are ready to do so, year on training for prison officers. Mr Cooper just as we have made the announcement of the says, "Don't criticise us, we recognise we were short-term prison cell construction. As we have doing that." What an absolute joke! This always said, Woodford was mothballed. It is one Government is now spending $2.6m a year on of the possibilities. training for prison officers. I will deal with another continuing furphy that Tonight, Mr Cooper dared to criticise us was raised by both the member for Crows Nest about the lack of program funding. Prior to the and the member for Nerang in relation to Boggo commencement of the commission and our Road. We have said and I repeat, we will not use Government's support of the commission, the prison at Boggo Road as a prison. We will not money being spent on program funding for go back to that dreadful prison. No-one has ever prisons was negligible. That is all that one can said that we will not use the site. The honourable say. We now spend $5m per annum. Whatever members should not confuse the difference criticism the Opposition may have in an ideal between using an existing set of buildings and world in relation to program funding and training, using the site. The buildings will never again be we are so far ahead of them that there is daylight used as a prison, but if they were pulled down between us. who is to know what our Government or a future I turn now to the figures in relation to the Government of the honourable member's stamp case load of probation and parole officers. I might do on the site. The honourable member would like to inform all honourable members that cannot say that by using the site with a totally the figures from last month now show that the different set of buildings on it that the Boggo average case load has declined from 71 to 65. Road prison would be used in its current state. That, of course, is bad news for the member for The previous Government allowed the Crows Nest because he does not want to hear antiquated, dreadful prison to be used for far too that the reforms and funding are fair and are long—until, under Mr Cooper's administration, working. the prisoners tried to burn it down and rioted on the roof, and the administration finally had to As to the suggestions in relation to drugs, of close it. I make it clear that we will never use the course we understand and know—as every existing prison. What may or may not be done prison administration in the world knows—that with the site in the future—— there are problems with drugs in prisons. At least we have faced up to that. At my request and Mr Connor interjected. direction a comprehensive drug strategy is being Mr BRADDY: The women's prison is being prepared by the Corrective Services used. I am talking about the men's prison. We Commission. have already announced that the women's Mr Littleproud: Another committee. prison is being used and will continue to be used. Mr BRADDY: Should we just walk in like the member for Western Downs does, with his I turn now to some of the other matters mouth open, mouthing inanities? As I remember raised, particularly by the member for Crows well, that is all he ever did when he was Minister Nest. He really does have some gall. He actually for Education. We plan and work and spend the was game enough to raise the question of money in the best possible way, rather than training for prison officers and to criticise this babbling inanities, which is his style. Government about such training. Opposition members can always be critical. More money can Other matters were raised by the member always be spent on health, education or prisons. for Nerang. He asked why we were not going to compensate members of the board if they lost Mr Connor: Just ask the prison officers. their position. With all due respect to Mr Connor, that really is very childish. Those people are 28 April 1994 7980 Legislative Assembly part-time board members. Since when is it proper Tonight, reference was made to the wanted that part-time board members who are not list that appeared in the Sunday Mail. I want to say reappointed because of a change of policy and a couple of things about that. First of all, it was direction be compensated? It is not their job. not an official document published by the They are not employees. They are not entitled to Queensland Police Service or the Queensland receive retrenchment moneys. Naturally, the Corrective Services Commission. I have had Government would not be spending public inquiries made about it, because there are moneys on compensating those members of the inaccuracies and errors in it. The preliminary current board who may not be reappointed. findings are that, apparently, one police officer, I have answered honourable members in of his own volition, gave it to the Sunday Mail. I relation to the CJC and in relation to Boggo am informed that he never said that it was the 10 Road. As to deaths in custody, let us be clear most-wanted list, but that is what the Sunday Mail about that. It is a very difficult problem to called it. As I say, there are errors in the overcome. It has been comprehensively document, which is very regrettable. Before any addressed by all of the relevant Government documents of this type are released, I will ask the departments—the Police Service, Corrective Police Commissioner to take steps to make sure Services and Family Services. The that they are checked and rechecked. For comprehensive report on that subject makes it example, this list was not checked with the very clear how successful the commission has Corrective Services Commission. Probably the been in addressing these issues. I believe that most telling matter in relation to discussing that although nobody can be complacent in relation document relates to the hypocrisy of the to this matter, enormous advances have been member for Crows Nest. He spoke about two made. One of the facts that Opposition members murderers. As I look at the list, I see that there have to face and that we as a Government have was only one murderer on that list. There was to face is that if anybody dies in custody, that another person convicted of manslaughter, not death automatically goes up on the score board murder. as another death in custody, even if the person Mr Cooper: Oh! died from cirrhosis of the liver, which is contracted over a period. Mr BRADDY: There is a world of difference between manslaughter and murder. In relation to Corrective Services, we see a comprehensive effort in terms of supervision and Mr Littleproud: I think you're trying to all sorts of efforts in other directions. I am not worm your way out of this. satisfied that we cannot do better. I believe that Mr BRADDY: No, that is pretty important we can, and so does the commission. It certainly because the manslaughter sentence-— does not behove members opposite to Mr Littleproud: You're trying to walk away automatically jump on the bandwagon of criticism from the problem. because at the end of the day they try to have it both ways. The problems that usually arise—if Mr BRADDY: That is not his major they are at fault—are caused by the people problem. The manslaughter sentence was for working there because they try to curry favour seven years, not for life, and all of those people with Opposition members all the time by who had received significant sentences were suggesting that they would do their job better if approaching the period for release when they only they had better support. were classified by various bodies, usually the Queensland Community Corrections Board, for Mr Cooper: They want someone to talk to admission to the particular institution that they because you won't listen to them. were in. Now, some Opposition members have Mr BRADDY: On the subject of listening attempted to claim that that is a disgrace. No-one to people, one thing is clear: the whistleblower gets locked up indefinitely in Queensland. legislation will protect them. They will have every People have to be released at some time. So opportunity to talk as much as they like. I have professional bodies make decisions as to when met with delegations from the custodial officers they might be able to be placed on work release and I will certainly be meeting with them again to programs or under some other applicable discuss their future. Of course, it is clear that we schemes. Sometimes those professional bodies now have one of the best systems of all the get it wrong. Sometimes, they also get it wrong in States in that in Queensland there is a lower rate other States. However, as the statistics show, of breaches of conditions of release into the generally the record here is better than that of community than in any other State except most other States. Tasmania and the ACT. Of course, one person who got it so very badly wrong is the member for Crows Nest. Back in the days when the Government made these Legislative Assembly 7981 28 April 1994 decisions directly, he and his Government were the title, and it is quite traditional that members directly responsible for the work release for the ask questions of that nature generally. one person who is a murderer on this list to which The CHAIRMAN: No. he referred today. His name was Howard Christopher Thomas, and he was released to Mr CONNOR: Then I seek a ruling under work pursuant to the Executive Council decision which clause I should raise it. of 10 August 1989. In fact, he was released to Mr CHAIRMAN: I will rule that out of order. work on 11 November 1989. He is the only However, the Minister has indicated that he will murderer on this list. Thomas was released under answer the member's question. the direct order of the member for Crows Nest Mr BRADDY: I will answer it briefly. and the others. The member for Crows Nest got Obviously, I do not carry the files of each it wrong. He got it badly wrong! particular—— Mr Cooper: You're the one who's got it Mr Cooper: You've had plenty of time to wrong. No-one's going to listen to these silly get them. excuses. Four and a half years later they let him out. Mr BRADDY: I do not have the files here, and members should not expect that I would. My Mr BRADDY: All I am saying is that this advisers cannot give that precise information same member who participated directly in a other than to say that if he was there where he decision to release a murderer, almost was, he would have been there only with the immediately after that man was released, is say-so of the Queensland Community castigating people for releasing to work people Corrections Board. In relation to the history of his on lesser sentences. What absolute hypocrisy! sentencing—I will have that researched for my Mr Cooper is not infallible. Even he might agree information as well as the member's. However, I with that. The Queensland Community do not know that information tonight, other than Corrections Board is not infallible. It makes that the Queensland Community Corrections mistakes as well, because it has to make Board placed him there, and it would have done decisions about criminals, and sometimes, when that only in the light of his sentence history. they are nearing the end of their sentence, the board gives them a chance, and that trust is Mr CONNOR: There is also the matter that betrayed. But no-one got it more badly wrong I mentioned earlier, and that relates to the—— than the member for Crows Nest. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I have ruled that Motion agreed to. out of order. Mr CONNOR: Mr Chairman, you do not know what I am going to say. Committee The CHAIRMAN: Order! All right, go Hon. P. J. Braddy (Rockhampton— Minister ahead. for Police and Minister for Corrective Services) in charge of the Bill. Mr CONNOR: As I mentioned earlier, there was this matter which occurred at the Mr Santoro interjected. Numinbah prison, which is located in my own The CHAIRMAN: Order! I warn the electorate, and which related to the $40 charge honourable member for Clayfield. for the prisoners going on the bus. Mrs Edmond interjected. Mr BRADDY: I am very sceptical about that The CHAIRMAN: Order! I also warn the information. Again, I will have it checked. member for Mount Coot-tha. However, again, it sounds like one of the furphies that the member has been running for a Clause 1— long time. Mr CONNOR (11.17 p.m.): In relation to Clauses 1, as read, agreed to. Morell, the Minister has had some time with Mr Macionis. He should have had an opportunity to Clauses 2 to 4, as read, agreed to. determine why it was that Morell was at that Clause 5— halfway house. That information that I gave the Mr COOPER (11.20 p.m.): Just a point of Minister is accurate. clarification—we discussed it during the The CHAIRMAN: Order! Will the member second-reading debate, and the Minister resume his seat? I ask the question of the responded to it. I am referring to the subject of member: what does that have to do with the conflict of interest. I am aware that changes need short title of the Bill in clause 1? to be made, and that is why the Opposition is Mr CONNOR: This particular clause cites supporting the Bill. I take on board the Minister's statement that, under the Kennedy 28 April 1994 7982 Legislative Assembly recommendations originally, the representatives I do not have any problems with that, but I think it would have virtually had vested interests in the needs to be pointed out just how much power prison system. The Opposition recognises, as the Minister and the Governor in Council Kennedy recognised then, that the Act would have—and quite rightly, I believe—in directing need to be reviewed once it came into effect and the commission under those circumstances. In we got the bugs out of it. This is one area that I effect, under this system the board is just a do think needs to have these changes made, rubber stamp for the Minister and also the and the Opposition supports that. Governor in Council. So we are seeing a My concerns about a conflict of interest quantum leap from a situation in which the relate to the various departments—namely, Minister is very much hogtied to a situation in Education, Health, Aboriginal and Islander which the Minister and the Governor in Council Affairs, and so on. For instance, if a senior public have far more power to direct the commission. officer from the Health Department were The Minister might comment on that. As I said, I appointed to the commission—and I take it that do not have any problems with it, because we such a person would be eligible for such an obviously had problems under the previous appointment—that officer would then wear two system. hats. For example, when the commission had to Mr BRADDY: I note what the honourable deal with problems regarding health matters in member says, but I do not agree with him. the prison system, that person would have to Clearly, there must be misconduct before a come forward with recommendations to the commissioner can be removed—misbehaviour Government. After doing so, that same person and so forth—or there has to be a refusal to would have to resume his or her daily tasks in the comply with a lawful direction of the Minister. In Health Department. If the views of the Health general terms, it is in accordance with the Department differed from those of the legislation as it is now. commission, where would that leave such a Mr CONNOR: I read it completely person? That is the only area of conflict that may differently from the Minister. Clearly, section arise. I am not saying it will. I think we need it 11 (3) states— clarified. "(3) The Governor in Council may remove a Mr BRADDY: In my speech before, I said commissioner from office if the that I generally agree with the honourable commissioner— member. I am not of the mind that it is a good practice in general to appoint public servants to . . . boards of this nature. That is my general view. I (c) is incompetent;" would take a lot of convincing that a board of this I do not have any problems with that, but it is not nature would be best served by appointing as the Minister described before. That is only as public servants to it. Although we do not rule it far as it has to go. If in the opinion of the out absolutely, it is certainly something that Governor in Council, a commissioner is would be done only very reluctantly and only for incompetent, the commissioner is out the door. I a very good reason by me. do not have any problems with that, but it needs Mr CONNOR: I refer to the amendment to to be put on record that that is the sort of power section 11 (3) (c), section 11 (3) (d), and also that the Governor in Council and the Minister section 11 (4) on page 6. These state— have. "(3) The Governor in Council may remove a Mr BRADDY: But, under the current commissioner from office if the legislation I could summarily remove any commissioner— commissioner. So we are tying ourselves down . . . to better and more specific reasons. The power resides now in the Minister, through the (c) is incompetent; or Governor in Council, to remove any (d) does anything else that, in the commissioner. Governor in Council's opinion, is a Clause 5, as read, agreed to. reasonable and adequate justification for removal from office. Clauses 6 to 10, as read, agreed to. (4) The Governor in Council may remove all Schedule, as read, agreed to. or any commissioners from office if the Bill reported, without amendment. Commission does not comply with the direction of the Minister given under section 23." Third Reading Bill, on motion of Mr Braddy, by leave, read a third time. Legislative Assembly 7983 28 April 1994
SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT Hon. P. J. BRADDY (Rockhampton— Minister for Police and Minister for Corrective Services) (11.27 p.m.): I move— "That the House, at its rising, do adjourn to a date and at a time to be fixed by Mr Speaker in consultation with the Government of the State." Motion agreed to. The House adjourned at 11.27 p.m.