1 Leave of Absence Tuesday, May 27, 2014

SENATE Tuesday, May 27, 2014 The Senate met at 11.00 a.m. PRAYERS

[MR. PRESIDENT in the Chair] LEAVE OF ABSENCE Mr. President: Hon. Senators, I have granted leave of absence to Sen. The Hon. Anand Ramlogan SC, Sen. The Hon. Gary Griffith, Sen. James Lambert, Sen. Camille Robinson-Regis, Sen. Shamfa Cudjoe, Sen. Dr. Victor Wheeler and Sen. Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir, who are all out of the country. SENATORS’ APPOINTMENT Mr. President: Hon. Senators, I have received the following correspondence from His Excellency The President, Anthony Thomas Aquinas Carmona, S.C., O.R.T.T.: “THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO By His Excellency ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, O.R.T.T., S.C., President and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago. /s/Anthony Thomas Aquinas Carmona O.R.T.T. S.C. President TO: STUART YOUNG WHEREAS Senator Camille Robinson-Regis is incapable of performing her duties as a Senator by reason of her absence from Trinidad and Tobago: NOW, THEREFORE, I, ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, President as aforesaid, in exercise of the power vested in me by section 44(1)(a) and section 44(4)(b) of the Constitution of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago, do hereby appoint you, STUART YOUNG, to be temporarily a member of the Senate, with effect from 21st May, 2014 and continuing during the absence from Trinidad and Tobago of the said Senator Camille Robinson-Regis. Given under my Hand and the Seal of the President of the Republic of Trinidad and 2 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Tobago at the Office of the President, St. Ann’s, this 21st day of May, 2014.” “THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO By His Excellency ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, O.R.T.T., S.C., President and Commander-in-Chief of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago. /s/Anthony Thomas Aquinas Carmona O.R.T.T. S.C. President. TO: FOSTER CUMMINGS WHEREAS Senator Shamfa Cudjoe is incapable of performing her duties as a Senator by reason of her absence from Trinidad and Tobago: NOW, THEREFORE, I, ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, President as aforesaid, in exercise of the power vested in me by section 44(1)(a) and section 44(4)(b) of the Constitution of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago, do hereby appoint you, FOSTER CUMMINGS, to be temporarily a member of the Senate, with effect from 21st May, 2014 and continuing during the absence from Trinidad and Tobago of the said Senator Shamfa Cudjoe. Given under my Hand and the Seal of the President of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago at the Office of the President, St. Ann’s, this 21st day of May, 2014.” “THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO By His Excellency ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, O.R.T.T., S.C., President and Commander-in-Chief of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago. /s/Anthony Thomas Aquinas Carmona O.R.T.T. S.C. President. TO: DR. AYSHA B. EDWARDS WHEREAS Senator Dr. Victor Wheeler is incapable of performing his duties as a Senator by reason of his absence from Trinidad and Tobago: NOW, THEREFORE, I, ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, President as aforesaid, in exercise of the power vested in me by section 44(1)(a) and section 44(4)(c) of the Constitution of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago, do hereby appoint you, AYSHA B. EDWARDS, to be temporarily a member of the Senate, with 3 Leave of Absence Tuesday, May 27, 2014

effect from 27th May, 2014 and continuing during the absence from Trinidad and Tobago of the said Senator Dr. Victor Wheeler. Given under my Hand and the Seal of the President of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago at the Office of the President, St. Ann’s, this 23rd day of May, 2014.”

“THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO By His Excellency ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, O.R.T.T., S.C., President and Commander-in-Chief of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago.

/s/Anthony Thomas Aquinas Carmona O.R.T.T. S.C. President. TO: MS. ASHAKI SCOTT WHEREAS Senator James Lambert is incapable of performing his duties as a Senator by reason of his absence from Trinidad and Tobago:

NOW, THEREFORE, I, ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, President as aforesaid, in exercise of the power vested in me by section 44(1)(a) and section 44(4)(a) of the Constitution of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago, do hereby appoint you, ASHAKI SCOTT, to be temporarily a member of the Senate, with effect from 27th May, 2014 and continuing during the absence from Trinidad and Tobago of the said Senator James Lambert. Given under my Hand and the Seal of the President of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago at the Office of the President, St. Ann’s, this 23rd day of May, 2014.” OATH OF ALLEGIANCE The following Senators took and subscribed the Oath of Allegiance as required by law: Stuart Young, Foster Cummings, Dr. Aysha B. Edwards and Ashaki Scott. ARRANGEMENT OF BUSINESS Mr. President: Senators, before we proceed with the next order of business, I just need to draw to your attention that there are a couple more appointments that 4 Senators’ Appointment Tuesday, May 27, 2014 will be made. We will have those done later in the course of this morning and therefore, I am deferring that matter until the appropriate time arrives. PAPERS LAID 1. Annual Audited Financial Statements of the Palo Seco Agricultural Enterprises Limited for the financial year ended September 30, 2013. [The Minister of Finance and the Economy (Sen. The Hon. Larry Howai)] 2. Report of the Auditor General of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago on the Financial Statements of the Agricultural Development Bank of Trinidad and Tobago for the year ended September 30, 2011. [Sen. The Hon. L. Howai] 3. Audited Financial Statements of the Deposit Insurance Corporation (DIC) for the year ended September 30, 2013. [Sen. The Hon. L. Howai] 4. Annual Audited Financial Statements of the Sports Company of Trinidad and Tobago for the financial year ended September 30, 2013. [Sen. The Hon. L. Howai] 5. Annual Audited Financial Statements of the Export-Import Bank of Trinidad and Tobago Limited for the financial year ended December 31, 2013. [Sen. The Hon. L. Howai] 6. Consolidated Audited Financial Statements of First Citizens Bank Limited for the financial year ended September 30, 2013. [Sen. The Hon. L. Howai] 7. Annual Administrative Report of the National Maintenance Training and Security Company Limited for the year ended December 31, 2013. [The Minister of Local Government (Sen. The Hon. Marlene Coudray)] 8. Administrative Report of the Penal/Debe Regional Corporation for the period October 01, 2010 to September 30, 2011. [Sen. The Hon. M. Coudray] 9. Administrative Report of the Penal/Debe Regional Corporation for the period October 01, 2011 to September 30, 2012. [Sen. The Hon. M. Coudray] 10. Administrative Report of the Penal/Debe Regional Corporation for the period October 01, 2012 to September 30, 2013. [Sen. The Hon. M. Coudray] 11. Annual Performance Report of the Trinidad and Tobago Bureau of Standards and its Subsidiary, Premier Quality Services Limited for the year ended September 30, 2012. [The Minister of Trade, Industry, Investment and Communications (Sen. The Hon. Vasant Bharath)] 5 Senators’ Appointment Tuesday, May 27, 2014

12. Administrative Report of the Ministry of Education for the fiscal year October 2011 to September 2012. [The Minister of the Environment and Water Resources (Sen. The Hon. Ganga Singh)] 13. Annual Administrative Report of the Trinidad and Tobago National Commission for United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) for the fiscal year 2008. [Sen. The Hon. G. Singh] 14. Annual Administrative Report of the Trinidad and Tobago National Commission for United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) for the fiscal year 2009. [Sen. The Hon. G. Singh] 15. Annual Administrative Report of the Trinidad and Tobago National Commission for United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) for the fiscal year 2010. [Sen. The Hon. G. Singh] 16. Annual Administrative Report of the Trinidad and Tobago National Commission for United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) for the fiscal year 2011. [Sen. The Hon. G. Singh] 17. Annual Administrative Report of the Trinidad and Tobago National Commission for United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) for the fiscal year 2012. [Sen. The Hon. G. Singh] SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS (Presentation) The Minister of Finance and the Economy (Sen. The Hon. Larry Howai): Thank you, Mr. President. I have the honour to present the following reports as listed on the Supplemental Order Paper in my name: Securities (Amdt.) Bill, 2013 Third Report of the Special Select Committee appointed to consider and report on the Securities (Amdt.) Bill, 2013. Insurance (No. 2) Bill, 2013 Third Interim Report of the Joint Select Committee appointed to consider and report on the Insurance (No. 2) Bill, 2013. 11.15 a.m. ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS The Minister of the Environment and Water Resources (Sen. The Hon. Ganga Singh): Thank you, Mr. President. The Government is in a position to 6 Papers Laid Tuesday, May 27, 2014 answer questions 74, 75, 79, 80, 71, 79, 86 and 101. Mr. President, by agreement having regard to the illustrious and honourable company we have from the other place, we thought it prudent having regard to the history of this House, to take the questions directed to the hon. Ministers seated on the backbench first. So it will be question No. 101, to the Minister of Transport, question No. 79 to the Minister of Labour and Small and Micro Enterprise Development, and question No. 74 to the Minister of Education, in that order first. The following questions stood on the Order Paper: Contract WTC 197/2011 by WASA (Details of) 69. A. Would the hon. Minister of the Environment and Water Resources indicate whether an investigation has been launched into allegations of bid-rigging, in respect of Contract WTC 197/2011 issued by WASA, in the sum of approximately $70 million dollars?

B. Would the Minister indicate the status of this investigation, if indeed, one is ongoing?

C. Would the Minister confirm whether this allegation of bid-rigging, or any related conduct, was reported to either the Auditor General, the Integrity Commission or to the police? D. If the answer to C is affirmative, would the Minister indicate when was/were this/these report(s) made and what is the status of this/these report(s)?

E. If the answer to C is negative, would the Minister say why no report was made and further indicate whether there is any plan or intention to do so? If so, when?

F. Would the Minister also indicate whether the person or persons who was/were suspected to be involved in this matter is/are still in office or whether such person or persons has/have been suspended, pending the outcome of this investigation?

G. Would the Minister further indicate what interim measures, if any, have been taken to protect the authority and the taxpayers of Trinidad and Tobago from the type of conduct that brought about these allegations and investigation?

H. Would the Minister provide the names of the companies which bid for the said contract and which company actually emerged as the awardee, in the 7 Papers Laid Tuesday, May 27, 2014

process now under investigation? I. Would the Minister say whether this contract award is the subject of any court proceedings? [Sen. C. Robinson-Regis] Dhansam Dhansook Revelations (False Allegations Investigation) 76. A. Would the hon. Attorney General indicate the status of the police investigation, into the alleged conspiracy to pervert the course of Public Justice, arising out of revelations by one Dhansam Dhansook, that the said Dhansam Dhansook made false allegations against two (2) former ministers of government and following which, the Director of Public Prosecutions referred the said matter to the police for its attention and investigation? B. Is/are any other agency(ies) of the State conducting this/these investigation(s)? C. When are these investigations expected to be concluded? D. Based on the current status of these investigations, are criminal charges a probable result? [Sen. C. Robinson-Regis] Outstanding Legal Fees Paid to the A-Team (Details of) 77. With respect to the response of the hon. Attorney General to Senate Question No. 47, which was delivered by the Attorney General on Tuesday 14th May, 2013, in respect of legal fees paid to the “A-Team” to investigate corruption of the State sector: (a) Would the Attorney General indicate whether the figures revealed are the final figures or is money still due and owing to the members of the “A- Team” for work done in respect of their assignment? (b) Would the Attorney General indicate precisely when did the team complete its work? (c) Given that the Attorney General included the names of the two-named attorneys hereunder; and given that the Attorney General failed in his response, to mention among the payees, the following attorneys, one Ackbar Ali and one Fenton Ramsahoye QC, in respect of the composition and work of the “A-Team”, would the Attorney General indicate why he did not? 8 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. G. SINGH] (d) Would the Attorney General indicate precisely what sum was paid to each of the two lawyers? (e) Since no mention was made of the firms Afa Law (which received $6,099,348.09) and Alix and Partners (which received $20,903,070.98) when the Attorney General announced the “A-Team”, would the Attorney General explain why not; and when and how did these two entities get involved in the provision of the services contracted for with the “A-Team”? (f) Would the Attorney General indicate whether his office or the “A-Team” reported any matter(s) regarding the investigations of the “A-Team” to the Police? And if so, what is the status of this/these investigations? [Sen. C. Robinson-Regis] Colour Me Orange Programme (Funds Expended) 78. A. Would the hon. Minister of Housing and Urban Development indicate what amounts of the Government’s figure of $73,568,637.50 expended on the now defunct “Colour Me Orange Programme”was specifically spent on (i) Equipment, (ii) Materials (iii) Security; and (iv) Salaries and Emoluments in both actual and percentage terms? B. Would the Minister indicate what plans are in place to generate further employment in the communities from which the “Colour Me Orange”programme was withdrawn and discontinued? C. Would the Minister explain why the government’s targets of this programme of a $300 million expenditure and the creation of 20,000 jobs, as outlined by the Prime Minister were not achieved? [Sen. C. Robinson-Regis] Sinkhole along the Beetham Highway (Details of) 81. A. Would the hon. Minister of Works and Infrastructure indicate the name(s) of the firm(s) which undertook road works on behalf of the Ministry to refill and repair the ‘sinkhole’ which developed along the Beetham Highway, in the vicinity of Sea Lots on September 6th, 2012? B. Would the Minister briefly describe the nature and the cause of this problem? C. Would the Minister indicate the total cost of repairs to this piece of infrastructure and the source of the funds utilized to meet this cost? D. Would the Minister further indicate the action taken to ensure that this mishap never recurs? 9 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

E. Would the Minister also indicate whether a technical report was prepared in respect of this problem? And if so, by whom? [Sen. C. Robinson-Regis] Atrius (Details of) 87. With regard to Atrius, could the hon. Minister of Finance and the Economy inform the Senate: (i) what is the status of Atrius; (ii) what are the impediments to the transferring of the assets from CLICO to this new entity; and (iii) what activities has the Board of Directors of Atrius been engaged in and are they being paid? [Sen. Dr. L. Henry] VMCOTT (Details of) 91. With respect to the Vehicle Management Corporation of Trinidad and Tobago, could the hon. Minister of Transport please inform this Senate as to:

a) whether the CEO contract at VMCOTT was terminated by the new Chairman of the Board; b) if the answer to (a) is in the affirmative, on what basis was it done;

c) whether the Chief Operating Officer position at VMCOTT was an existing position prior to 2010;

d) whether the Chairman of VMCOTT is an Executive Chairman; and e) have the Managers at VMCOTT met the minimum qualifications for their positions? [Sen. A. Singh] Solomon Hochoy Highway (Details of Surveillance Bays) 100. Could the hon. Minister of National Security inform this Senate on: (a) the number of surveillance bays currently installed on the Solomon Hochoy Highway and their exact locations; (b) whether a maintenance contract exists for routine upkeep and, if so, the name of the contractor to whom such was awarded; and 10 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

(c) if the answer to (b) is in the affirmative the cost per month of the contract? [Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh] National Academy for the Performing Arts (NAPA) (Details of) 102. In relation to the National Academy for the Performing Arts (NAPA), could the hon. Minister of the Arts and Multiculturalism inform the Senate: (a) which Ministry/Department has oversight responsibility for health, safety and maintenance of the 3 functional areas at the National Academy for the Performing Arts (NAPA), specifically: (i) the Auditorium; (ii) the Academy; and (iii) the Hotel; (b) which Ministry/entity is responsible for handling maintenance of the complex as a whole or, if such responsibility falls separately, then who is responsible for handling maintenance in respect of each of the 3 functional areas; (c) are formal inspections carried out and, if so, by whom and how often; (d) is there a maintenance operations guide or any controlling policy in respect of maintenance and support designed to maximize the performance of the complex; in particular as regards routine repair or maintenance; and as regards preventative maintenance routines; (e) is there a help-line support facility available to occupiers or users of the buildings for the purposes of reporting equipment malfunctions and failures or as regards areas or aspects of the building in need of maintenance, repair or adjustment; (f) who is required to respond and what is the typical response time; and (g) if third party maintenance is used, how is the provider selected and is there a standard maintenance and support agreement? [Sen. A. Vieira) Questions, by leave, deferred. Introduction of Speed Monitoring Devices (Status of) 101. Sen. Dianne Baldeo-Chadeesingh asked the hon. Minister of Transport: Could the Minister inform the Senate of the status of the introduction of speed monitoring devices, in particular radar speed guns, to address the carnage on the nation’s roads? The Minister of Transport (Hon. Stephen Cadiz): [Desk thumping] Thank you, Mr. President. The question speaks to a number of things. One is the status, of course, 11 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 of the introduction of speed monitoring devices, in particular radar speed guns. Then, of course, the other part is to address the carnage on the nation’s roads. What Government has done over the last four years is phenomenal, in fact, when dealing with carnage on the roads. There are a number of issues and initiatives that Government have entered into. We looked at, for instance, safety on the highways. We looked at a series of new walkovers for our highway system, one in Oropune. There is a new one going up right now outside Biljah Road, close to the Divali Nagar, which again, would allow people to cross from communities into other communities in a very safe way, which again, will reduce the issue of the fatalities with pedestrians in and around the highways. We have installed in excess of 27 kilometres of cable barriers. I think—for those of us who travel on the nation’s highways, we would see that the cable barriers have really and truly played a very, very important part in dealing with road carnage. It is estimated that in excess of 87 fatal accidents would have been avoided by the use of these cable barriers. [Desk thumping] We have the issue of the traffic warden system. Again, very, very effective in managing issues of traffic on the nation’s road. We also have the highway patrols. We have 99 brand new rapid-response vehicles [Desk thumping] and, Mr. President, if it is one thing I could say, and I do not think any of us who travel on the nation’s highways could not say, that they have not seen these patrol vehicles day and night travelling—patrolling the nation’s highways. Before 2010, you could drive from here to Point Fortin and probably not see one single patrol vehicle. Now, when you are driving on the highways, if you drive from, for instance, Port of Spain to Chaguanas, you could see five, six, seven patrol vehicles right there waiting, managing the road systems. In addition to the 99 new rapid-response vehicles, we added an additional 63 motorcycles again, for proper traffic management. [Desk thumping] The issue of the highway patrol lay-bys, the bays that you see on the centre median of the highway, where police patrol vehicles can actually make a U-turn on the highway, to address any issue that would be on the other side. Again, this makes it very easy for the road management. Red-light cameras: right outside the Parliament building here, in case you do not know, if you go through the red light here, you will be picked up, because there is a test station right here on this traffic light here, that we are testing the red-light cameras for people who break the red light. We actually take a photograph of the licence plate, this is only testing. Do not expect a ticket in the mail, because the legislation does not provide for that. But we will be—with the 12 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 new Motor Vehicle Authority Act coming in very soon, we hope to be able to have that operational. Mr. President, the road fatalities: 2012 over 2013, we saw a massive 22 per cent drop in road facilities. [Desk thumping] For this year, first quarter 2014, against first quarter 2013, we see an additional—outside in addition to the 22 per cent overall for the annual figure a 15 per cent drop in road facilities. [Desk thumping] So all of these are in place, Mr. President. Then we come to the issue of the speed guns. And I would like to let the Senator know we are not looking at radar speed guns, we are looking at what is known as the Lidar System, which is an actual laser detection system, which is the technology that the majority of jurisdictions are now using and, therefore, that is what we are going to be bringing to the Parliament. In fact, we are right now wrapping-up in the other House, the amendment to the Act, the Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic Act to enable the electronic speed detection. So we hope to have that passed in the Lower House within the next couple weeks which, of course, will then come to the Upper House. Thank you, Mr. President. [Desk thumping] Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Supplemental, Mr. President. Given that in the international jurisdictions, there are video surveillance and photographs to support the use of these devices, if a citation is given because I assume a citation will be given, can it hold up in court with this lack of evidentiary support? Hon. S. Cadiz: Mr. President, I know—there is some misinformation out there. When we presented it in the Lower House, we were very, very explicit as to how this system operates, and you will have a photograph of your registration plate, there will be a photograph of the vehicle. On the same photograph will be the place, the time, the speed at which you were going, the speed at which the— whatever the speed limit would have been determined at that particular area. So all that information is going to be there, and will be presented to the errant driver, when the driver is stopped by a trained and certified police officer in use of this particular system. Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Further supplemental, Mr. President. Who is the procurement agency for these devices? Hon. S. Cadiz: We have determined, Mr. President, that when all is said and done, when the Bill is passed, the amendment is passed, we will then go out to tender for the equipment. At present, we are looking at VMCOTT being the procurement agency for the instrumentation to be used with the electronic speed 13 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 detection devices. Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Further supplemental. Has the Minister outlined the specifications for these devices? Hon. S. Cadiz: The specification for the devices would have been determined by the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service. Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Further supplemental, Mr. President. Talking about the police service, how long will officers take to be trained using these devices? Hon. S. Cadiz: These devices, Mr. President—this is state-of-the-art equipment, and the training that would be necessary would be the recommendations of the manufacturer obviously. So depending on who is chosen—whichever manufacturer is chosen, whatever training would be required, that training would be done. But I want to say even without a supplemental, that the certification of the officers, we understand that all officers who would be using these devices, would have to actually be certified. And there would be a process by which this would be done, and these officers would be signed off—the certificates would be signed off by the Commissioner of Police. Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Further supplemental, Mr. President. Earlier on the hon. Minister indicated that there were 87 accidents avoided because of the cable barriers. Seeing that you have decided to go on to cable barriers and bays and so on, can the Minister remember in February—last November actually, the Minister had indicated to the media that these devices would be on the roads for carnival 2014? Hon. S. Cadiz: This is correct. However, the coming to—well, two things, one was the determination of exactly what the TTPS would want, that would be the first thing. And then, of course, coming to Parliament with the amendment. As we know, things do not work as we would normally want them to work, with the speed and, therefore, until the Act is amended, there will be—there is nothing that we can do until the Act is amended. So before any tendering and procurement, et cetera, is done, we would have to have the necessary legislation in place. Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Further supplemental, Mr. President. Could the Minister indicate the difference between the radar, the laser and the Lidar Laser Detection System that you mentioned earlier on? Hon. S. Cadiz: Well, of course, not being an expert in these matters, Mr. President, but simply put, the radar was the original electronic speed detection 14 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [HON. S. CADIZ] that was used in many jurisdictions. Radar has a number of problems with it, whereas laser when you speak—when you hear the term to pinpoint like a laser, and that is the real difference. The radar, for instance, if there are four vehicles travelling in the same direction at roughly the same speed, radar cannot pinpoint which one is the—which vehicle is the vehicle the officer is targeting. With laser, you can actually pinpoint out of a group of vehicles, you can actually pick one out of the bunch, to determine the actual speed. Otherwise, the radar goes very wide, and it is very difficult to determine which one out of the bunch you should really and truly be ticketing. So there is a difference in the technology. The laser is the technology that is being used today. It is nearly 100 per cent or a 100 per cent accurate in determining the speed, and pinpointing the offending driver. Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Further supplemental, Mr. President. The hon. Minister indicated the surveillance bays were used to curtail the amount of carnage that is on the nation’s roads. I wish to ask the Minister if he is aware that the surveillance bays have not been maintained. Sen. G. Singh: Mr. President, that is another question, and the hon. Member is being anticipatory. Sen. Al-Rawi: Sorry, Mr. President. On what basis is the Leader of Government Business answering that? Sen. G. Singh: It is another question that — Sen. Al-Rawi: For your guidance on locus and his position to interrupt. Mr. President: Well, first of all, any Minister can answer a question, so I am not going to determine which Minister should answer. I know the questions are addressed to Minister Cadiz, Minister of Transport. And then yes, it is a completely—a question completely outside of the parameters of this question and, therefore, does not fall—if the Minister elects to answer the question then, that, of course, is an option he can make, but it is outside of the parameters of the question being put forward. [Crosstalk] [Desk thumping] Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Mr. President, permit me, but the hon. Minister did speak about surveillance bays when the question [Desk thumping] did not specifically ask about surveillance bays. So seeing that he opened the discussion—[Interruption] Mr. President: Senator, I do not need an explanation for it. I understand the Minister mentioned surveillance bays that does not follow that he has all the material 15 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 that would enable him to answer the question that you wish to pose, but you must pose the question. Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Could the hon. Minister, answer the question regarding—be willing to answer the question regarding surveillance bays? Hon. S. Cadiz: Mr. President, those surveillance bays come under the management of the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure. So I am pretty sure that the Minister will—the line Minister would want to answer that, should it be posed. Sen. G. Singh: And it is question 100 on the—[Interruption] 11.30 a.m. Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental, Mr. President. Hon. Minister, do you have an estimated cost for the implementation of the Lidar laser speed monitoring system? Hon. S. Cadiz: I think the budget that was established was in the vicinity of about $12 million to $14 million. I am not too sure exactly what the final—we would not know obviously until we go to tender, but I think that was the estimate that was produced by the technocrats. Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental: hon. Minister, was this included in the presentation to Parliament in the Appropriation Bill this year? Hon. S. Cadiz: There is provision for—there is a line item in the Appropriation Bill. Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental, hon. Minister: has there been consultation with the Law Association or any of the legal entities with respect to the evidence aspects of legislation, which will bring into life this system? Hon. S. Cadiz: Yes, I think, we have been through the mill as far as the amendment is concerned to ensure that all would be in agreement. We have had discussions with a number of people in the law fraternity, the police and the international jurisdictions, to determine what we should be using. Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental: hon. Minister, you mentioned the issue of the installation of walkovers in answer to this question. Has a walkover been established; has it been built; has it been identified to be built at the Sea Lots area? Hon. S. Cadiz: Again, when the Minister of Works and Infrastructure comes to answer the other question, I am pretty sure he will answer that question also. 16 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [HON. S. CADIZ] Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental: is it therefore that reason that you raised it in the answer to this question? Hon. S. Cadiz: No, I mean road safety has many different aspects to it and some of the highway systems that go through built-up communities—these are communities that were actually split by a highway going through it—and, therefore, people have to be able to cross over; to be able to walk over to go and visit family; to go to school; to go to grocery; to go to work and what have you. Therefore, the walkover system is an established system like—it is just that in some areas like close to the Nagar, like in Oropune, the previous administration never even thought it wise that they should put in walkovers there, and this Government, understanding its responsibility, is making sure that any area that requires a walkover system they will have it. [Desk thumping] Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental: in light of that answer, hon. Minister, is it because there was no intention other than to remove the residents of that area through land relocation and housing relocation? Hon. S. Cadiz: As soon as I figure out which area we are talking about, then I will be able to answer the question. Sen. Al-Rawi: I would invite you, hon. Minister, to pay attention. You just said that the previous Government had not seen it fit to put in a walkover. I am asking you, arising out of your question, whether that is because the communities were to be relocated. Hon. S. Cadiz: Mr. President, I am not too sure where this is going, but maybe the goodly Senator could ask himself why the previous administration did not put in a walkover in Sea Lots, 30 years ago. Sen. Al-Rawi: That is precisely why I am asking. Hon. Minister, with respect to the rapid response vehicles, are these vehicles supposed to be equipped with the laser system that is to be brought into effect? Hon. S. Cadiz: The system that is being used, Mr. President—for those of you who look at television and Highway Patrol and what have you, where they had radar systems in the vehicles, this is not what this is. The laser system is a system that requires it to be affixed to a tripod for instance, in a particular place, and that is where the traffic management will be checked. It is not like Smokey and the Bandit and what have you where you see people flying around checking speed within their vehicle. That is not what this system is. The laser system requires a particular type of installation and, therefore, police vehicles will not have it mounted in the vehicle. These systems will be portable systems. It will 17 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 then be erected as and when they are doing a speed check and that is how the system operates. Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental: with respect to procurement through VMCOTT arising out of your answer, is it intended that this will be by way of a request for proposals or by way of Central Tenders Board open tender? Hon. S. Cadiz: I think the tendering rules for VMCOTT will apply here and from what I understand, this will be an open public tender where all and any could actually submit. Mr. President: We have another question by Sen. Camille Robinson-Regis. Are you going to undertake that? Sen. G. Singh: [Inaudible] Mr. President: I thought that was second? Number 79. Sen. Al-Rawi: Mr. President, the hon. Leader of Government Business indicated that he would be in a position to answer, in sequential order, questions 101, 79 and 74. Is it proposed that question 79 will now be up for the offering? Mr. President: Well, that is the order and I am asking you whether you are going to undertake, in the absence of Sen. Robinson-Regis. Sen. Al-Rawi: Should it please you, Mr. President, yes. NEDCO Operations (Details of) 79. Sen. Faris Al-Rawi on behalf of Sen. Camille Robinson-Regis asked the hon. Minister of Labour and Small and Micro Enterprise Development: A. Would the Minister indicate the number of persons employed by NEDCO as at December 2013; and the total cost of salaries and emoluments per month in each case? B. Would the Minister indicate the number and locations of offices/sub-offices in operation by NEDCO in Trinidad and Tobago; the monthly rental in each case? C. Would the Minister further indicate the number of loans granted since January 1st, 2011 to December 2013 by NEDCO between $1,000 and $15,000; and between $100,000 and $250,000? The Minister of Labour and Small and Micro Enterprise Development (Hon. Errol Mc Leod): Thank you very much, Mr. President. Question 79, three parts, A, B 18 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 and C. At A, the Minister is asked to indicate the number of persons employed by NEDCO as at December 2013 and the total cost of salaries and emolument per month in each case. The number of persons employed by the National Entrepreneurship Development Company Limited (NEDCO) as at December 2013 is 123 persons, 117 of them full time and six of them part-time employees. The total salaries and emoluments per month is $1,002,620.08; $862,689.44 being the cost of salaries and $139,930.64 for allowances. If we break down further, we would see salaries at, as was mentioned just now, $862,689.44; acting extra duty allowance, $16,985.64; cell phone allowance, $15,045; travelling allowance, $83,200; entertainment allowance, $21,200; telephone allowance, $500; housing allowance, $3,000; totalling $1,002,620.08.

Part B asks the Minister to indicate the number and locations of offices in operation by NEDCO in Trinidad and Tobago and the monthly rental in each case.

NEDCO has one head office and 16 offices and sub-offices, four of which are incubator centres for the National Integrated Business Incubator System, a programme which NEDCO manages on behalf of the Ministry of Labour and Small and Micro Enterprise Development. The location and monthly rentals of these offices are as follows:

LOCATION MONTHLY RENT $ 27 Broadway Street, Arima 7,000.00 149 Eastern Main Road, Barataria 45,919.50 93 Ramsaran Street, Chaguanas 40,250.00 38 New Street, Port of Spain—that is the head office 126,500.00 27-29 Bhupsingh Street, Penal 29,624.00 26 Guapo Cap-de-Ville Road, Point Fortin 10,000.00 3 Manahambre Road, Princes Town 5,000.00 Corner Queen and Chacon Streets, Port of Spain 23,632.50 13 Naparima/Mayaro Road, San Fernando 42,858.20 19 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Lot 66, Eastern Main Road, Sangre Grande 11,500.00 Milford Road, Lower Scarborough, Tobago 20,000.00 LOCATION MONTHLY RENT $ 135 Eastern Main Road, Tunapuna 10,500.00 University of the West Indies, St. Augustine 1,276.50 27-29 Bhupsingh Street, Penal 88,872.00 Lot 14 Guava Road, Point Fortin 65,055.50 21-22 New Yalta, Western Main Road, Diego Martin 135,441.25 917 Manzanilla Road, Sangre Grande 36,640.00 TOTALLING 700,069.45 Part C of the question asked the Minister to further indicate the number of loans granted since January 01, 2011 to December 2013, loans between $1,000 and $15,000 and between $100,000 and $250,000. The number of loans granted since January 01, 2011 to December 31, 2013, between $1,000 and $15,000, were 330, granted at a value of $3,548,188.08. These loans were disbursed as follows:

Number of TOTAL VALUE OF Loans granted LOANS GRANTED $ Agricultural supplies 2 16,210.20 Art and craft 15 128,546.00 Auto care services 12 151,814.13 Beauty/Personal Care 50 533,129.08 Books 1 13,246.10 Catering/Restaurant Services 19 218,357.23 Ceiling Installations 1 14,900.00 20 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [HON. E. MC LEOD]

Clothing 25 282,098.68 Clothing/Laundry Services 1 6,586.04 Number of TOTAL VALUE OF Loans granted LOANS GRANTED $ Computer-IT business 2 15,362.13 Construction Business 6 72,809.49 Dry Goods and Vegetables 3 33,517.00 Education/Tertiary 3 28,073.68 Electronics 1 10,787.28 Entertainment 1 14,382.97 Event Coordination 3 24,100.16 Fish Processing 1 8,509.77 Fitness Training 1 9,229.11 Floral Arrangements 2 25,589.10 Food Processing Services 2 13,116.62 Fresh Fruits/Vegetables 3 25,900.00

Do I continue this, or do I just give the total? Mr. President: This appears to be rather lengthy. You can elect to circulate it in writing if that is your preference. Hon. E. Mc Leod: I should be finished in two minutes.

11.45 a.m. Sen. Al-Rawi: If it would help him, Mr. President, on behalf of the mover of the question, we would be happy to accept that category in writing, in view of it. Hon. E. Mc Leod: I would be finished in two minutes, Mr. President.

21 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Number of Total value of loans granted loans granted $ Garment Construction 21 243,356.65 General Household 1 3,894.10 Greeting Cards 1 13,031.04 Grocery Items 1 15,000.00 Gym/Fitness 1 11,651.97 Health Care Products 2 20,353.86 Herbal Products and Health foods 2 20,353.86 Ice Cream 1 9,016.22 Interior Decoration 4 39,311.36 Ironing Service 1 5,000.00 Jewellery Business 4 29,668.12 Joinery 1 7,754.79 Landscaping/Yard Maintenance 15 154,291.24 Lumber 2 22,798.23 Manufacturing 3 34,474.25 Market Goods 1 11,533.22 Meat Mart 1 10,317.66 Mini Mart 35 399,800.03 Nuts 1 2,547.52 Photo Services 2 23,600.82 Plants/Greenhouse 1 3,203.33 Plumbing/Electrical 1 15,000.00 Poultry Processing 1 6,491.59 22 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [HON. E. MC LEOD]

Number of Total value of loans granted loans granted $ Printing/Stationery/Services 1 9,769.22 Retail 38 436,259.41 Roti Shop 1 6,727.84 Screen Printing 1 10,501.27 Service/Production 6 58,876.87 Specialized Products 1 12,321.10 Stationery Items 2 29,239.56 Transport Business 2 14,601.46 Variety Store 14 148,793.08 Vegetable Mart 2 26,097.94 Video Club/Production 1 9,136.09 Welding Fabricating 4 37,149.61 TOTAL 330 3,548,188.08 Totalling 330 loans at a value of $3,548,188.08. [Desk thumping] The Number of loans granted since January 01, 2011 to December 31 2013, between $100,000 and $250,000 by NEDCO, was 61 valued at $9,993,300.91:

Number of Total value of loans loans granted granted $ Air-conditioning Sales and Services 1 111,049.40 Art and Craft 1 100,000.00 Auto Care Services 5 658,657.53 Clothing 2 214,781.91 Computer/IT 1 100,000.00 23 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Number of Total value of loans loans granted granted $ Construction 3 511,989.37 Education/Tertiary 1 197,613.55 Electrical/Maintenance 1 250,000.00 Entertainment 3 540,000.00 Environment Safety and Health 1 250,000.00 Consulting and Training Programmes Event Coordination 2 366,650.22 Gas/Grocery Items 1 150,000.00 Hardware 1 250,000.00 Interior Design/Graphics 1 144,168.83 Landscaping/Yard maintenance 1 $187,966.58 Manufacturing 3 $478,693.14 Maxi Taxi 2 $342,000.00 Music 1 $250,000.00 Photo services 1 $100,000.00 Printing Stationery/Services 2 $278,046.65 Publication/Magazine 1 $100,000.00 Retail 9 $1,501,581.52 Scaffolding 1 $100,000.00 Security Services 1 $250,000.00 Service/Production 6 $910,927.07 Transport 8 $1,235,649.99 Wholesale Import/Distribution 2 $413,525.15 TOTAL 61 9,993,300.91 24 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [HON. E. MC LEOD] Totalling 61 businesses at a value of $9,993,300.91. [Desk thumping] Mr. President: Senators, you will recognize that we have now passed the hour for questions, so I would invite the Leader of Government Business to indicate what he proposes to do. EXTENSION OF QUESTION TIME The Minister of the Environment and Water Resources (Sen. The Hon. Ganga Singh): Mr. President, thank you. Mr. President, as I indicated that having regard to the fact that we have hon. Members from the other place and there are about five questions in addition that hon. Senators are prepared to answer to, I think that having regard to the business at hand, we would complete the question session at the end of the response to question No. 74 by the hon. Minister of Education. Mr. President: Sen. Al-Rawi. Sen. Al-Rawi: If I may enquire, through you, seeing that we have the hon. Minister of Education here on a very important question to deal with the laptop programme, that would effectively put an end to the Members who are visiting today if that question were to be permitted and with the will of the House granted. May I enquire whether the Leader of Government Business is willing to allow that question to be put as well? Mr. President: That is what I understood he just said. Sen. Al-Rawi: I understood that when the Minister of Labour and Small and Micro Enterprise Development was finished. Mr. President: No, he said the hon. Minister of Education. ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS NEDCO Operations (Details of) Sen. Al-Rawi: I see, so thank you. Supplemental, Mr. President. Hon. Minister, thank you for the attention to detail and care that you have exercised in giving us the answer. May I enquire, hon. Minister, you mentioned in respect of one location, and perhaps it is by way of clarification, that is 27-29 Bhupsingh; is it? Penal? I could not write it quickly enough. It seemed that there were two figures presented: one for some $29,000 and another for $88,000. Is it that NEDCO is renting two separate locations with the same address? NEDCO? Hon. E. Mc Leod: Mr. President, there are two offices at 27-29 Bhupsingh Street, Penal. One office is occupied by NEDCO at a cost of $29,624 and the other one is an office occupied by the IBIS programme which NEDCO manages on behalf of the Ministry of Labour and Small and Micro Enterprise Development, and that one at the same premises is at $88,872, and we have a number of clients running small businesses in that particular location. 25 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental. May I enquire, hon. Minister, who the effective lessee or tenant is with respect to those two offices at the same location? Hon. E. Mc Leod: I do not have that information with me now, Mr. President. Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental. Hon. Minister, the IBIS programme, is it a registered entity in and of itself? Hon. E. Mc Leod: Mr. President, the IBIS programme, which is the acronym for the Integrated Business Incubator System was established in October 2011. It provides entrepreneurial training, seed capital, mentoring, operational and professional support for successful candidates who will then go on to run their own businesses, and this has contributed to our establishing 61 micro and small businesses within various sectors. [Desk thumping] Sen. Al-Rawi: So, hon. Minister, if I may ask by way of further supplemental; is it a registered entity or not? Hon. E. Mc Leod: I thought I said that. Sen. Al-Rawi: No, you did not. Hon. E. Mc Leod: Okay. I thought that might have been understood; it is. No, you did not. Sen. Al-Rawi: Perhaps I may need to ask it from a slightly different vantage point. Hon. Minister, is the IBIS programme a registered entity or not, such as to constitute with legal capacity, the personification of a tenant at law? Mr. President: I am going to have to intervene at this point. I do not think the legal questions that you are putting to the Minister are within the portfolio that he will understand as a lawyer what you meant to say. I do not know if you need me to interpret the question: whether it is an incorporated entity or a business registration, or is it simply the name of a programme, but perhaps you would like to give him enlightenment rather than the legal language that I suspect he does not follow. Sen. Al-Rawi: Mr. President, thank you for inviting some better detail to the question. The hon. Minister is an experienced man. In answering the question, hon. Minister, you indicated two locations with the same address, two entities occupying the same address with different sums. I am trying to get from you which entity is the tenant there. I cannot understand that a programme can be a tenant, so I am trying to understand from you who the tenant is there so that we can do further investigation. 26 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Hon. E. Mc Leod: Mr. President, the tenant there is the National Entrepreneurial Development Company Limited, NEDCO. Sen. Al-Rawi: Thank you. Further supplemental. Hon. Minister, is there a form of underwriting or risk analysis with respect to the granting of these facilities through NEDCO? [Interruption] Hon. E. Mc Leod: Mr. President, the IBIS programme, managed by NEDCO on behalf of the Ministry of Labour and Small and Micro Enterprise Development, came about really as a very genuine attempt to build entrepreneurship and to engage the talents of people in Trinidad and Tobago who sometimes are not able to advance their particular talent because of the absence of the kind of green capital that this programme is supposed to be effecting. 12.00 noon When one examines how NEDCO had operated since its coming into being in 2002, it was discovered that NEDCO was merely facilitating the disbursement of funds. Sen. Maharaj: In other words a slush fund. Hon. E. Mc Leod: However they may have described it—and clients would have gone to NEDCO, sometimes on the word of somebody via a telephone call, sometimes again with a little note, and they would have walked away with large sums of money. Indeed, there is the instance of somebody being disbursed a loan to the tune of $250,000 at a time when the ceiling was $30,000. [Crosstalk] Sen. G. Singh: “Yuh look for dat!” Hon. Senator: “How dey get dat?” Sen. Al-Rawi: Sorry, that is the LifeSport Programme or the NEDCO programme? [Crosstalk] Sen. Hadeed: I did not catch that. [Crosstalk] Hon. E. Mc Leod: Mr. President, it had become as fashionable—as the hon. Senator is dressed—it had become very fashionable to just disburse loans. [Laughter and desk thumping] I suspect that that is why it is being identified as a slush fund. [Crosstalk] Do I go on, Mr. President? Mr. President: Senators, can we listen in silence to the answer, please. 27 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Hon. E. Mc Leod: So we have been able to make 61 thriving small and micro enterprises. [Desk thumping] We have gone further. We established the Fair Share Programme which was operationalized in December 2011, and which will create opportunities for those small and micro enterprises that are properly run, as we seek to move people out of the informal to the formal sector of the economy, so that they pay their dues. [Desk thumping] Sen. Al-Rawi: That is the LifeSport Programme? Hon. E. Mc Leod: And we are providing for them to access up to $1 million worth of business with Government agencies and Ministries. We call that the Fair Share Programme, so that people can be migrating from small and micro to medium, and making serious contributions. [Desk thumping] It is by way of this that we have contributed to our unemployment level falling from 10.8 per cent in 2010 to 3.7 per cent today. [Desk thumping] Sen. Maharaj: “Repeat that for them there.” Hon. E. Mc Leod: This programme, Mr. President, has seen 777 micro and small businesses becoming fully certified to participate in the Fair Share Programme. Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental. Hon. Minister, arising out of that last answer, did you at all mention the words “there is a risk manager”? Hon. E. Mc Leod: I will not venture to say yes or no in that regard. NEDCO is properly staffed with the necessary skills that are required as they dispense this particular service to us. Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Supplemental, Mr. President. Could the Minister indicate whether NEDCO’s CEO was recently fired and could the Minister further indicate why the Programme Manager is currently on suspension? Hon. E. Mc Leod: Mr. President, I am going to make an appropriate statement, not here, on that particular matter, in short order. I do not see that question having a relationship with what is being dealt with right now. Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Supplemental, Mr. President. Arising out of the hon. Minister’s answer, could the Minister indicate whether or not it was because of financial impropriety in the case of NEDCO’s CEO and procurement irregularities in the case of the Programme Manager currently on suspension? Hon. E. Mc Leod: Mr. President, I indicated, and reluctantly so, the state of things at NEDCO under the administration previous to our coming into office, and so as not to repeat the sins of the past—[Interruption] 28 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Maharaj: The sins of the PNM! [Desk thumping] Hon. E. Mc Leod: So as not to repeat the sins of the past, we have been very particular about the performance of every single employee, from CEO down to the last recruit, in any organization that has to do with this Ministry and this particular Government. Thank you very much. Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Further supplemental. Has this been referred to the police, and which Minister is directly responsible in this scenario? Sen. G. Singh: Are you addressing the Prime Minister? Hon. E. Mc Leod: Mr. President, I said that a statement in short order is going to come. [Desk thumping] I would not have said that if the particular entity that we are talking about did not fall under my portfolio. Sen. Young: Further supplemental, Mr. Minister. You spoke about 61 thriving small enterprises, the absence of green capital. Surely, Mr. Minister, you are aware of the Youth Business of Trinidad and Tobago as well as another programme called Fund Aid that provides similar type loans. However, we are dealing with public funds here, something we will get to shortly in debate. [Interruption] Mr. President: Senator, you are required to ask a question. You cannot introduce your questions by other matters. Sen. Young: Out of the 691 [sic] loans that you told us about—61 plus 330, can you tell us the percentage that are delinquent? Hon. E. Mc Leod: I would like to deal with that question, Mr. President, because we are still doing an audit of NEDCO’s business, from inception to the present time. I can answer broadly and say that our delinquent loans, our non-performing business is that business which we inherited from the last administration. [Desk thumping and crosstalk] We are ensuring, as best as we can, that those businesses that came into being since October 2010, are more disciplined and would make a better contribution to those persons who are involved in the business, and the institutions set up by this Government and the past government too, the institutions set up to build our people and have them come to the real situation affecting our country, as it affects the rest of the region and the world. Sen. Young: Further supplemental. The period that you are talking about for the 691 loans was between January 01, 2011 to December 2013. So in that specific period that you have addressed us on, the 691 loans, can you tell us how many are delinquent? 29 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Hon. E. Mc Leod: I indicated, I thought I did, that those loans that are delinquent are the ones which we inherited. We are doing reasonably well. Sen. Young: So the 691 are good? Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Further supplemental. Minister, regarding the statement to be made in short order, could the hon. Minister define “in short order”? Is it this afternoon, is it Thursday, is it next week? Hon. Senator: Short order is Lester Henry. [Laughter] Sen. Al-Rawi: “And Devant slamming de desk.” Hon. E. Mc Leod: Mr. President, the board of NEDCO has been dealing with this matter, and the Minister is to be properly informed so that the rest of the Government can be very properly informed. As soon as all of that is done, a statement will be made in short order. [Laughter] Laptop Programme (Details of) 74. Sen. Faris Al-Rawi on behalf of Sen. Camille Robinson-Regis asked the hon. Minister of Education: With respect to the “Laptop Programme” for Secondary School entrants, could the Minister indicate to this Senate: (a) the actual expenditure to date on the Programme; (b) the cost of repairs to date and the name(s) of persons or firms contracted to effect the said repairs of these laptops; and (c) the name(s) of the manufacturer(s) of the laptops and the supplier(s) of same, if different? The Minister of Education (Hon. Dr. Tim Gopeesingh): Mr. President, the promise prior to May 24, 2010, one of the significant promises on the People’s Partnership Manifesto, under the visionary leadership of the distinguished now Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago, Mrs. Kamla Persad-Bissessar, [Desk thumping] made the promise to the nation and to the nation’s quarter million children, that every child leaving the primary school moving into Form I would receive a laptop on entry into Form 1. The People’s Partnership Government has lived up to its promise and has delivered. [Desk thumping] Hon. Senator: Another promise! 30 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Maharaj: Ninety per cent of promises, delivered! Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: I am being advised that 90 per cent of the promises under the People’s Partnership Manifesto have been delivered. Mr. President, the People’s Partnership Government, critically aware of the role of information communication technology in education, sought very quickly from May 25 to ensure the delivery of the first set of laptops would have taken place, with the commencement of the first term in 2010/2011 academic year. In that year, we supplied 20,300 laptops with computer hardware and peripherals, to not only the approximately 17,500 students, but close to 3,000 teachers as well in Forms 1, 2 and 3. In that context as well, we ensured that the teachers were trained at different levels and skills with ICT, so that we could have had the infusion of the curriculum with ICT in Form 1. Teachers in Forms 1, 2 and 3 were provided with laptops, most of them, so that they can continue when the students move to Forms 2 and 3. 12.15 p.m. So we fully understood and appreciated that for education and for education to evolve and nurture, we developed an ICT framework designed to enhance, broaden, strengthen and transform learning, to develop the learner into a person who is excellence-driven, global in perspective, innovative—which we promised in the manifesto as well, we promised to have innovation—creative thinking and entrepreneurship in education, ingenious, creative and prepared to participate fully in the global economy of the 21st Century. And as such in 2010, the Ministry launched its first phase of the eConnect and Learn Programme, popularly known now as the eCAL Programme, with the provision of laptops to students entering Form 1. To date, Mr. President, the Ministry has purchased approximately 73,200 laptops for students entering Form 1 throughout Trinidad and Tobago; 73,200 laptops. [Desk thumping] Such was the success of our programme that the country of St. Lucia, Prime Minister Kenny Anthony approached our hon. Prime Minister to seek some assistance with a programme that he was considering emulating from Trinidad and Tobago. And the hon. Prime Minister had asked me, as Minister of Education, to work with the St. Lucian Ministry of Education to help them provide and procure some laptops. We procured, in 2013, 3,300 laptops which were purchased for their secondary school students in St. Lucia under the 31 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 partnership agreement between the Ministry of Education, St. Lucia, and the Government of Trinidad and Tobago. We also assisted them in providing technological assistance in the entire programme which we were now doing for three years and with which we had considerable success. The expenditure to date spent on the eCAL Programme amounts to TT $261,406,715.49. The following provides a breakdown per year. In 2010, we provided 20,300 laptops at a cost of $83,956,471.42. That unit cost then was about $4,135.79. In 2011, we provided 17,300 laptops, laptop bags and peripheral equipment at a cost of $54,935,380.15. And the unit cost went down from $4,135 to $3,160.64 per unit cost. And all of this was done in the proper tendering process under the auspices of iGovTT and in conformity with total transparency and accountability. The logistics and distribution of the 17,300 laptops to secondary schools cost us $3,631,786.49. In 2012, 17,400 laptops and laptops bags and peripheral equipment were provided to our students in Form 1 at a cost of $56,579,790.28, and the cost for 2012 was about $3,226.62 per unit cost; almost the same as the previous year. The logistics and distribution of these 17,400 laptops was $1,469,287.15. In 2013, we provided 18,200 laptops for Trinidad and Tobago at a cost of $49,476,700, and for the 3,300 laptops for St. Lucia, with peripheral equipment, that cost was $8,971,50. The logistics and distribution for our 18,200 laptops to our students was $2,386,250. That was the total cost for the 18,200 laptops. So, Mr. President, for the 73,200 laptops distributed to our students who entered Form 1 in 2010, and up to those in 2013 who have entered Form 1. So the Form 1 students in 2010 who would be in Form 2 in 2011 in Form 3 in 2012 and 2013 in Form 4. So we now have students in Forms 1, 2, 3 and 4 who have their laptops provided by the Government of the country. [Desk thumping] This year we estimate that we are going to be providing close to 18,500 laptops again, [Desk thumping] and we will be also providing another 1,500 for teachers in primary schools now because the teachers under the Continuous Assessment Component, they are using the laptops to formulate and to score the students and to have everything computerized so that there is a strong, scientific approach in the Continuous Assessment Component in the primary schools. [Desk thumping] So, Mr. President, by September 2014 this People’s Partnership Government would have provided close to 92,000 laptops to our students in Form 1, Form 2, Form 3, Form 4 and Form 5. [Desk thumping] 32 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [HON. DR. T. GOPEESINGH] Mr. President, and that—for so far the cost of the provision of these laptops for Trinidad and Tobago is $252,435,665.49. Mr. President, if we add that to what I indicated to this distinguished Senate on the cost of provision of textbooks— which I answered about two weeks ago—close to $250 million, Mr. President, this People’s Partnership Government would have spent close to $500 million in provision of essential tools for learning for our students in Trinidad and Tobago [Desk thumping] close to $500 million for the laptops and textbooks, just those two alone, we have provided close to $500 million during our four-year period so far. Mr. President, this in is context of the expenditure, the wider expenditure in education which the honourable, distinguished Prime Minister said that education must be given the priority in terms of what we promised in the manifesto— “Prosperity for All”—and in our seven interconnected pillars, education is associated with three of these: the reduction of poverty, ICT, and the human capital development for sustainable development. Mr. President, in that context the hon. Prime Minister ensured that for every budget that we have presented to the nation, subsequent to 2010, that education received the highest allocation amongst all the different Ministries because the hon. Prime Minister believed that the human capital development was most important for us to achieve sustainable development and prosperity for all. Mr. President, we continue to spend close to about 18 per cent of our annual expenditure, and close to 6 per cent of our GDP on education, way beyond, Mr. President, than most developed countries of the United States, Canada and Great Britain. Such is the distinction that the Prime Minister places on the important aspect of education for our nation’s children. So close to 18 per cent of our annual expenditure and 6 per cent of our GDP, way beyond what most developed countries spent. Mr. President, the work: approximately 18 months ago, 102 Ministers of Education assembled in the United Kingdom at a global education forum, and in that forum three important aspects came out of it. Any country that does not incorporate ICT in education is going to be left behind, and Trinidad and Tobago has proven that we are in the avant-garde of education, we are at the forefront of education. [Desk thumping] ICT in education—[Interruption] Sen. G. Singh: “Avant-garde”—a nice word. Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh:—has carried us beyond the path of most of the developed countries, and Trinidad and Tobago now is recognized as one of the leading countries in education around the world. [Desk thumping] We have 33 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 universal primary education, universal secondary education, universal tertiary education, up to the undergraduate level. We provide 50 per cent for our postgraduate level under the GATE Programme, and students who have received first class honours at the undergraduate level are given scholarships, full scholarships, for their masters and PhD. [Desk thumping] Mr. President, the Prime Minister has promised this population that we will achieve universal early childhood education by 2015, and we will do so. [Desk thumping] So that all our 38,000 students between ages three and four will have a formal place in an early childhood education centre, receiving a formalized education and curriculum for early childhood development. We understand, and we know, and appreciate that when a child is born 30 per cent of that child’s brain development is there. By age one and a half, 50 per cent of that child’s brain development has taken place. And by six years 90 per cent of that child’s brain development would have taken place. And in keeping with that knowledge and scientific data, the distinguished Prime Minister sought to ensure that our children aged three and four must be part of that developmental process where we nurture the brain development and the total development of a child even before age five. And in that quest, Mr. President, we will be providing these 38,000 children under a formal system of universal early childhood education. [Desk thumping]

In keeping with our major development in ICT in education, the world has recognised Trinidad as a leader, so that recently the distinguished former Secretary of State, Mrs. Hillary Clinton, in an address at the IDB, was very complimentary to the progress of the education system in Trinidad and Tobago when she mentioned the whole question of the seamless education occurring in Trinidad and Tobago. And that was a public statement made when she delivered her speech at the IDB. Also, Mr. President, in recognition of the tremendous work that Trinidad and Tobago has been doing in education and amongst them the ICT, we were given an international award for our distinguished work in education alongside other countries namely, like Afghanistan, where the Afghanistan Minister of Education had been able to put two million girls back into schools in Afghanistan in two years. And we were given an international recognition alongside a Minister of Education from Afghanistan; six of us from around the world were given recognition in education. [Desk thumping] 34 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [HON. DR. T. GOPEESINGH] 12.30 p.m. Further recognition of the ICT thrust and development—the Organization of American States looked at Trinidad and Tobago in the context of Latin America and the Caribbean and decided to partner with us on a virtual edu-conference which we successfully held last Monday and Tuesday at the Hyatt Regency Hotel. More than 16,000 participants came to that conference. We had more than 5,000 children there and we had a number of distinguished citizens from Trinidad and Tobago, and we also had 14 Ministers of Education and their representatives attending that conference where we shared our experiences on ICT, amongst others. We had the world’s largest companies on ICT: Microsoft, Intel, and a number of others, working together with Digicel, TSTT, Flow, Columbus Communications and so we set up an exhibition that was of the highest international standard for our students and our participants to witness. Mr. President, in keeping with ensuring that we continue to develop our students along the ICT spectrum, we created history recently when we ensured that we launched the first smart classroom at Presentation College in Chaguanas. [Desk thumping] And we are now engaging in a pilot project with 20 smart classrooms in different schools in Trinidad and Tobago, 10 primary and 10 secondary schools and each school would have two classes over a three-month period using part of the curriculum in Mathematics and in English Language to determine—we will analyse that at the end of three months and see where we are moving. We are also looking at the implementation of interactive smart boards throughout our secondary school system, but that would depend upon the research that would come out of the smart classroom. So, Trinidad and Tobago moves forward purposefully and diligently, ensuring that all our students can develop their fullest potential and realize their fullest potential, and amongst them, the information communication technology skills in their classroom. So smart classrooms being launched in 20 schools in Trinidad and Tobago, we are going to include two schools in Tobago, about which I spoke to the Secretary to Tobago yesterday. [Desk thumping] May I take this opportunity publicly to congratulate all six President’s Medal awardees who received their President’s Medal awards yesterday in Tobago for the first time? This being an inclusive Government we ensured that for the first time in the history of Trinidad and Tobago that the President’s Medal was awarded in Tobago. [Desk thumping] And such was the joy of the secretary for Tobago and the Secretary for Education in Tobago, they were overjoyed at the presentation. So, we congratulate the two students who won the President’s Medal 35 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 for CAPE, and for the first time after so many years, that the last administration had not persevered with and continued, they threw out the Jerningham Silver Medal, we ensured that we now give recognition for academic distinction to students in CSEC. [Desk thumping] So, two President’s Medal awards were given to students at the CSEC level, and in discussion with the President, we decided to award as well two President’s Medal for first and second place for students who had written SEA and came first and second in SEA. [Desk thumping] Such was the distinction of that yesterday. So, Mr. President, our work on ICT in education in Trinidad and Tobago is heralded and recognized, not only in the wider Caribbean as the leader, but in Latin America and the Caribbean and also globally and internationally. So that Samsung was able to partner with TSTT, and Samsung launched and pioneered the first part of their equipment and usage of their tablets in smart classrooms here in Trinidad and Tobago [Desk thumping] right here in the Caribbean. And now Trinidad and Tobago is poised to assist the other Caribbean and Latin American countries in making sure that we provide the experience that we would be deriving from these smart classrooms to the other Caribbean and Latin American countries. So, Mr. President, it is really a privilege for me to say that our $253 million spent so far on the laptops, a provision of close to 73,200 so far, has been wonderfully spent to the benefit of all our students in Trinidad and Tobago and our teachers as well in the Ministry. [Desk thumping] Sen. Al-Rawi: Supplemental, but perhaps not quite so. Hon. Minister, whilst we welcome you to this Senate as always you neglected to answer questions (b) and (c) as part of the question. Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: What is that? [Laughter] Sen. Al-Rawi: If I may remind you: the cost of repairs to date, the names of persons, et cetera. Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: Sure. We have always had a one-year warranty for each one of the laptops that we purchased. So, from the first year the one-year warranty went on and subsequent to the expiration of the warranty period we ensured that we have now within the secondary school system approximately 150 ICT technicians servicing these laptops for the students who have found difficulty with—either they have thrown it on the floor mistakenly or accidentally or they spilled water, some of the boards, the screens have been cracked and we are working expeditiously with the ICT technicians to do as much repairs as we could 36 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [HON. DR. T. GOPEESINGH] for them. But this year, in recognition of the past experience, we are now going to spend $10 million and look to see whether we can get a tender for some companies to assist us in repairing some of those that were not functioning anymore. So that has been answered. So, we have not had to pay any money for repairs to any company or any firm whatsoever, because 150 ICT technicians throughout our schools are servicing these computers. [Desk thumping] They are not only servicing those computers, but in every secondary school— 134—we have computer labs ranging from one to six computer labs and some of these computer labs have up to 60 computers in their schools, and these are serviced by Internet connectivity and we are now working on a tender to improve the Internet connectivity to these 134 secondary schools, to at least 50 megabytes with dedicated fibre optic cabling. And we are moving to have the primary schools with 25 megabytes of dedicated fibre optic cabling. Mr. President, we have 300 out of our 476 primary schools with computer labs and before September 2014, within the next three months, we are moving to ensure that those 176 that do not have these computer labs will be provided with computer labs before the next academic year commences. The name of the manufacturers of the laptops and the suppliers? In 2010, Hewlett Packard was the name of the manufacturer and supplier; and 2011, Lenovo; 2012, Hewlett Packard; 2013, Lenovo. These were the companies. So, two years Hewlett Packard won on the tenders. So Hewlett Packard 2010; 2011, Lenovo; 2012, Hewlett Packard; 2013, Lenovo. All these tendering, the first two years were done under the auspices of the iGovTT which is the national company responsible for ICT, and last year specifically, was done under the Central Tenders Board governance. So, Mr. President, the transparency and accountability in the award of these laptops had been, without doubt, completely transparent and could withstand scrutiny at any time. [Desk thumping] Sen. Al-Rawi: Supplemental. Thank you, hon. Minister—73,200 laptops at a cost of $261 million odd, with respect to the repairs, you say that we have 150 ICT technicians—[Interruption] Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: Approximately. Sen. Al-Rawi: Approximately—are those technicians employees of the Ministry of Education? Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: Yes, they are. They are employees of the Ministry of Education and supervised by the ICT team of the Ministry of Education. 37 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental. Hon. Minister, are these 150 people capable of dealing with 73,200 laptops and all of the computer labs at 300 primary schools and also, I believe you said, 134 secondary schools? Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: Yes, they work in conjunction in the secondary schools with the teachers who do the ICT teaching. So, together with the teachers they ensure that the computer labs are working very well. And the secondary school principals, under their vote of approximately $1.5 million per year, each secondary school receives a vote for them to spend as they deem necessary. Under the Exchequer Act they now spend some of their money in purchasing some computers which had not been functioning and the USB attachments and so on, so that these computer labs would be working. The 150 technicians are quite well qualified. They are very competent. We do not have to deal with 73,000-plus laptops. They have to deal with those that are not functioning and we are continuing to do an audit within the school system—how many are not functioning, how many students are bringing them to the school on a daily basis and so on, how many teachers are teaching and training their students with ICT in the curriculum. It seems to be very positive from the information that is coming in from the principals and the supervisors. So, I think, and also in the context, one of you Senators would have asked—I had a meeting with almost 30 publishers last week and raised the question of the e-textbooks with them and answers are now beginning to come forward so that we can look at the utilization of the e-textbook in the dissemination of the knowledge and information to the students through the use of the computer. [Desk thumping] Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental. Thank you, hon. Minister. With a one- year warranty prevailing as you have told us, coming from two suppliers Hewlett Packard and Lenovo, have we provided for maintenance and replacement costs of laptops which are now out of warranty? If so, do you have a gauge as to what the line item for that provision may be? Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: Yes. Bearing in mind what you said that the one- year warranty takes into consideration the replacement and repair within that one- year period, subsequent to that, some of the laptops would have fallen into disrepair. We have begun to look at some of the companies, internationally and nationally, that could help us in that repair programme. We have not come up with a definitive answer in terms of a cost for—the ICT department will have the cost for the screens and the cost for the keyboards. We are now putting that together, and in that context we have indicated a line item for the Cabinet’s 38 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [HON. DR. T. GOPEESINGH] approval, which the Cabinet approved of, close to $10 million, which we will utilize, whether we use a three-year guarantee now or a three-year guarantee for warranty and parts, and we are looking at the cost of that. But we have put a line item for approximately $10 million to cover that for the future. 12.45 p.m. For those that are not working now, we are evaluating what it will cost to do that in-house versus if we have to approach a company that is competent and capable of doing that in a quick space of time. Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental. Hon. Minister, are you in a position to tell us how, in light of the lack of an audit on this programme as to performance, implementation, disrepair, maintenance replacement factors, how it is this programme has been gauged as a success beyond mere supply of the laptops? Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: I will be able to give you the details of that answer because we have the answer. It is not of a lack of audit, we have done the audit. We have done the audit from what the principals have provided to us, from the teachers, what the supervisors have put together from every school and what the Chief Education Officer has been able to put together. I can tell you assuredly, that it has been a tremendous success, and it is because of that success we have just launched the smart classrooms. [Desk thumping] Many schools are calling out for that as well, and many schools are now purchasing their own interactive whiteboards for use in the audiovisual room, in addition to the computer labs. So it is not only the laptop use in the classroom, but the students still have the ability to move to the computer labs as well. And may I indicate as well, Mr. President, that we have found that more and more students now are taking information technology as a subject at CSEC level, [Desk thumping] and we are looking at the number that are doing it at CAPE as well. So pretty shortly, the Trinidad and Tobago population of youths will be very computer literate and ICT literate so that Trinidad could be a centre for any major industrial company to launch their base right here in Trinidad, because our human resource capital will be very well strengthened, Mr. President. [Desk thumping] Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental. Hon. Minister, in light of the rapid redundancy of software and of technology, have we made any provision with the providers, HP and Lenovo, as to the software usage maintenance? And the second part of the question is, does the Minister have an estimate as to the cost for the physical outlay of the schools with respect to charging facilities, battery carts and physical plugs and utilization? 39 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: I think you ask me two questions there: one on the software. I do not—that would not reside with me, hon. Senator. I think that is beyond my technical capacity in terms of the software and so on, for these laptops. That could be for another question, and I will be happy to provide it. The other question was what? Sen. Al-Rawi: With respect to the cost, if Minister is able to answer, for the physical outlay of schools that have complained that they do not have the infrastructure to use. Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: No, all 134 schools do have the infrastructure, 134 secondary schools. One hundred and twenty-eight have Internet connectivity, six in remote areas do not have, and we have approached TSTT and Flow, Columbus Communication, to help us put that connectivity. But all 134 secondary schools have the electrical wiring, they have the capacity to be able to have the students laptop charged at a particular point. So far we have not had that request, because the battery life of each one of these laptops is about eight hours, so the students charge these laptops overnight when they have to bring it to school, so they can use in for the entire eighthours without any problem whatsoever of having to recharge it within the school. It is like your telephone. Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental. Hon. Minister, was there a reason for the change in procurement systems, moving to the Central Tenders Board as opposed to iGovTT? What necessitated that change in procurement structure? Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: The Government in its keeping to ensure total transparency and accountability to the nation, at all times we knew that iGovTT did a fantastic job with total transparency and accountability, but in keeping with our thrust for even more transparency, Central Tenders Board is the agency which deals with the entire tendering beyond what ministerial tenders committee can do. I think up to about $2 million, and what a PS can do for $1 million, but with iGovTT we had some delays with it, and with the Central Tenders Board we were able to—it is experience from year to year, and we gathered more and more experience from year to year, so we were able to put the Cabinet Note earlier, we were able to get the manufacturers to come to put in their tenders earlier, so that we could have got the laptops within the first or second week of school. So, everything was a matter of gaining more experience, and as I showed you the cost of the laptop went down from about $4,100 per unit in the first year, now I believe it is $3,200. So you see from experience to experience—and this is why other countries are now trying to work with us to copy what we have done based on our experience derived over a period of time. 40 Oral Answers to Questions Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Al-Rawi: Further supplemental. Hon. Minister, who are the local agents who would have been the beneficiaries of these awards for HP and Lenovo? Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: I think Digi-Data was the company that did the distribution for the ones that Hewlett Packard got, Digi-Data. And Lenovo, I think Memory Bank was the distributor for the Lenovo products. Hon. Senator: Who was the first establishment? Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: I think Memory Bank is the first established company in Trinidad and Tobago with ICT. [Desk thumping]

Sen. Dr. Edwards: Mr. President, not so much a supplemental, but I just beg your indulgence in commending the Minister of Education, the President, and the Education Division of Tobago House of Assembly on a fabulous job yesterday. I was actually there. [Desk thumping] There were—of course women were in charge. There were five females and only one guy, but the programme itself was really, really a great programme. Tobagonians were really proud. I think the only complaint that people had was that there were not more invited guests, because of the small space, but it was really a great programme. [Desk thumping] Hon. Dr. T. Gopeesingh: Thank you, Dr. Edwards.

EXPIRATION OF QUESTION TIME The following questions stood on the Order Paper: Prime Minister’s Official Visit to India (Details of Advertisements)

71. A. Would the hon. Minister of Trade, Industry, Investment and Communications indicate whether any entity within the purview of his Ministry placed any advertisements or expended any money on advertisements in any Indian publication, during or in advance of the official visit by the Prime Minister to India in 2012?

B. If so, would the Minister indicate which entity, the cost of this/these advertisement(s) and whether this cost was included in the figure previously disclosed by the Minister in any answer to Parliamentary questions put to him in the House of Representatives? [Sen. C. Robinson- Regis] 41 Expiration of Question Time Tuesday, May 27, 2014

DNA Sample Storage (Details of) 75. A. Would the hon. Minister of Justice kindly indicate the name and general location of the Unit/Department that stores DNA samples for future identification purposes? B. Would the Minister further indicate which State official has responsibility for this unit? C. Would the Minister advise as to whether such samples are held at only one agency and whether there is any other repository of such material? [Sen. C. Robinson-Regis] CTO Media Awards Luncheon in New York (Details of) 80. A. Would the hon. Minister of Tourism kindly indicate the names and portfolios of the Trinidad and Tobago delegates that participated in any way, in the Caribbean Tourism Organization’s “CTO Media Awards Luncheon” in New York, in the run-up to and on Thursday 1st June, 2013? B. Would the Minister indicate the total cost of this exercise to his Ministry, and/or any State organization under his purview; and also our Consulate Offices in the USA, including cost of travel and sponsorship of the event? C. Would the Minister indicate the economic and other benefits of this exercise to Trinidad and Tobago? [Sen. C. Robinson-Regis] Water and Sewerage Authority (Total Number of Contract and Full-Time Employees) 86. Could the hon. Minister of the Environment and Water Resources say what is the total number of contract and full time employees at the Water and Sewerage Authority (WASA) for the years 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013? [Sen. Dr. L. Henry] Question time having expired, questions 71, 75, 80 and 86 were not dealt with. BEAUTY SERVICES ASSOCIATION OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (INC’N) BILL, 2014 Question put and agreed to: That a Bill for the incorporation of the Beauty Services Association of Trinidad and Tobago and for matters incidental thereto, be now read the first time. Bill accordingly read the first time. 42 Special Select Committee Tuesday, May 27, 2014

SPECIAL SELECT COMMITTEE Securities (Amdt.) Bill, 2013 (Extension of time) The Minister of Finance and the Economy (Sen. The Hon. Larry Howai): Mr. President, having regard to the Third Interim Report of the Special Select Committee appointed to consider and report on the Securities (Amdt.) Bill, 2013, I beg to move that the committee be allowed an extension of two weeks, from June 06, 2014, in order to submit a final report to the Senate. Question put and agreed to. JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE Insurance (No. 2) Bill, 2013 (Extension of time) The Minister of Finance and the Economy (Sen. The Hon. Larry Howai): Mr. President, having regard to the Third Interim Report of the Joint Select Committee to consider and report on the Insurance (No. 2) Bill, 2013, I beg to move that the committee be allowed an extension of four weeks in order to complete its work and to submit a final report by June 27, 2014. Question put and agreed to. ARRANGEMENT OF BUSINESS The Minister of the Environment and Water Resources (Sen. The Hon. Ganga Singh): Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. President, as required by Standing Order 24, I seek the leave of the Senate to consider Government Business instead of Private Business. I am fortified in rising, Mr. President, by virtue of the agreement we have with the mover of the Motion, Sen. Helen Drayton. Agreed to. CONDOLENCES (MR. JUSTICE GUY HANNAYS) Mr. President: Hon. Senators, we are approaching the one o’clock hour, and therefore I do not intend to proceed with the question at hand. I do, however, wish to draw to your attention as Senators may know, the sad passing of Mr. Justice Guy Hannays. And therefore in honour of his passing, in fact, he served as a Senator in 1991, on six occasions during the period May to October 1991. Therefore, as one of our fellow colleagues who have now passed on, I ask that you stand for a minute silence. The Senate stood. 43 Arrangement of Business Tuesday, May 27, 2014

ARRANGEMENT OF BUSINESS Mr. President: Hon. Senators, it is of course now approaching 1.00. I propose to take the lunch break at this point and to resume this Senate at 1.45 p.m. for efficiency purposes, so that we may come back at that point and start the debate. This Senate will now stand suspended until 1.45 p.m. 12.58 p.m.: Sitting suspended. 1.45 p.m.: Sitting resumed. Mr. President: Hon. Senators, you will recall that I deferred the completion of the Announcements to a point later today. I intend to announce certain correspondence I have received from His Excellency the President. SENATORS’ APPOINTMENT Mr. President: Hon. Senators, I have received the following correspondence from His Excellency The President, Anthony Thomas Aquinas Carmona, S.C., O.R.T.T: “THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO By His Excellency ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, O.R.T.T., S.C., President and Commander-in-Chief of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago. /s/Anthony Thomas Aquinas Carmona O.R.T.T. S.C. President TO: MR. NAZEEMOOL MOHAMMED WHEREAS Senator The Honourable Anand Ramlogan is incapable of performing his duties as a Senator by reason of his absence from Trinidad and Tobago: NOW, THEREFORE, I, ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, President as aforesaid, in exercise of the power vested in me by section 44(1)(a) and section 44(4)(a) of the Constitution of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago, do hereby appoint you, NAZEEMOOL MOHAMMED, to be temporarily a member of the Senate, with effect from 27th May, 2014 and continuing during the absence from Trinidad and Tobago of the said Senator the Honourable Anand Ramlogan. Given under my Hand and the Seal of the President of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago at the Office of the President, St. Ann’s, this 22nd day of May, 2014.” 44 Senators’ Appointment Tuesday, May 27, 2014

“THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO By His Excellency ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, O.R.T.T., S.C., President and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago. /s/Anthony Thomas Aquinas Carmona O.R.T.T. S.C. President TO: ARCHBISHOP BARBARA BURKE WHEREAS Senator The Honourable Gary Griffith is incapable of performing his duties as a Senator by reason of his absence from Trinidad and Tobago: NOW, THEREFORE, I, ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, President as aforesaid, in exercise of the power vested in me by section 44(1)(a) and section 44(4)(a) of the Constitution of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago, do hereby appoint you, BARBARA BURKE, to be temporarily a member of the Senate, with effect from 27th May, 2014 and continuing during the absence from Trinidad and Tobago of the said Senator the Honourable Gary Griffith. Given under my Hand and the Seal of the President of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago at the Office of the President, St. Ann’s, this 27th day of May, 2014.” “THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO By His Excellency ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, O.R.T.T., S.C., President and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago. /s/Anthony Thomas Aquinas Carmona O.R.T.T. S.C. President TO: DR. KRIYAAN SINGH WHEREAS Senator Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir is incapable of performing his duties as a Senator by reason of his absence from Trinidad and Tobago: NOW, THEREFORE, I, ANTHONY THOMAS AQUINAS CARMONA, President as aforesaid, in exercise of the power vested in me by section 44(1)(a) and section 44(4)(c) of the Constitution of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago, do hereby appoint you, Kriyaan Singh, to be temporarily a member of the Senate, with effect from 27th May, 2014 and continuing during the absence from Trinidad and Tobago of the said Senator Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir. 45 Senators’ Appointment Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Given under my Hand and the Seal of the President of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago at the Office of the President, St. Ann’s, this 27th day of May, 2014.” OATH OF ALLEGIENCE The following Senators took and subscribed the Oath of Allegiance as required by law: Nazeemool Mohammed, Abp. Barbara Burke and Dr. Kriyaan Singh. PUBLIC PROCUREMENT AND DISPOSAL OF PUBLIC PROPERTY BILL, 2014 [Second Day] Order read for resuming adjourned debate on question [May 20, 2014]: That the Bill be now read a second time. Question again proposed. Mr. President: The list of those who spoke on the last occasion, Tuesday, May 20, 2014 were: the mover of the Motion, Sen. The Hon. Dr. Bhoendradatt Tewarie, Minister of Planning and Sustainable Development; Sen. Faris Al-Rawi; Sen. Helen Drayton; Sen. The Hon. Kevin Ramnarine, Minister of Energy and Energy Affairs; Sen. Dr. Lester Henry; Sen. Dr. Rolph Balgobin. Senators wishing to join the debate may do so now. The Minister of Tourism (Sen. The Hon. Gerald Hadeed): Mr. President, the main objectives of the procurement legislation are accountability, transparency, value for money. My colleague, Sen. Dr. Tewarie, has said that the main objectives of the procurement legislation we are discussing here today are to promote accountability, transparency, value for money, efficiency, local industry development, sustainable procurement. In fact, it is widely recognized and has been so in most countries for many years. It reduces and prevents fraud, reduces wastage and to an end, at least, discourages corruption through penalties and a process which is transparent, accountable, provides value for money and is independent. More, if you have such a procurement mechanism in place, you would have more money available for national development, money for education, money for health services, money for housing, money for safety and security, money for social services. That is why we have been able to do so much and with so little wastage. While we are putting the legislation in place, we are ensuring that we follow best practices in procurement. It is why we have completed, or are in the process of completing, all of our promises to the population made in our manifesto of 2010. [Desk thumping] 46 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. G. HADEED] Mr. President, so if it is such a good thing to have this procurement policy, how come it has taken so long for it to be introduced? Why, after 30 years, and another three terms of PNM and after 58 years, it has only now reached this House? It has reached because we brought it here, the People’s Partnership Government. [Desk thumping] Left to the People’s National Movement, it would be like the rapid rail, still coming to come and never to arrive. I will speak about the rapid rail shortly. It will be like Malcolm Jones’ gas-to-liquid conversion plant at Petrotrin. That, I will speak about also. The gas there was only the liquid, and what was the liquid cash that was squandered or stolen? [Desk thumping] It would be like the 60 nursery schools that the Korean firm, Haji, got the contract for. They, and Esther Le Gendre left together. The money disappeared with nothing to show for it. Why is procurement legislation only happening now? Vested interest, lack of political will and the unwillingness to enforce the law, that is the record of the PNM. [Desk thumping] There are several reasons why procurement legislation has not been popular with certain governments or political parties when they were in power. I want to share them with hon. Members present so when I profess to provide examples from our history, they would see the behaviour that has been so evident since the inception of the People’s National Movement in 1956. Some people would say it fits a sinister pattern. Some would even say that it is an example of a pattern of behaviour since the inception of the People’s National Movement that demonstrates that all things we are trying to prevent with this Bill—this Bill demonstrates all the good things we are trying to encourage and put in place. We want to end once and for all the wastage, the open and boldfaced corruption and fraud that were perpetrated on the people of Trinidad and Tobago by the People’s National Movement. It is the difference between having a heart and a Hart. The big three of the PNM like Prevatt, O'Halloran, Owai, like Jones, Julien and Juliana, must give way now to the objectivity, the transparency, the accountability, value for money, independent judgment, evaluation and management. [Desk thumping] I will now go on to say why the PNM did not want procurement legislation. Mr. President, I want to go through the history of this country from 1956. It is important that we bring the history back to life because many people were not around; they were not born and they must be told what went on prior to the reincarnation of the group in front of me. The study shows that there are some key reasons why procurement policy is ignored, despite all the lip service that is paid. The first is the deeply vested interest that they have inserted in the People’s National Movement— deeply vested interests. 47 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Those interests and those people are those who do not want to see procurement legislation because it helps them to perpetrate at all times what they have in mind, which is bad administration to do the wrong things that they ought not to do and, as I said, I will point these out over the course of this debate. 2.00 p.m. The history of the PNM includes putting the vested interest in charge of key Ministries of Governments and the most lucrative of state enterprises. It is like putting thieves as turnkeys and the lunatics in charge of the asylum. This is the pattern. You put the wrong people in place so they can do what they want to do with the people’s money. I will expound on that shortly—[Interruption] Hon. Senator: That is why they gave it to—[Inaudible] Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: Yes, I will tell you about it just now. You have plenty to hear today. I will expound on that shortly, but let us look at why procurement policy and the PNM go together like oil and water or gas to liquids. The second is the lack of political will. If you have money to make from not having a procurement policy, why would you want one? Why would you cut your nose to spoil your face? Nobody will do that. The second is the lack of political will. If you have money to make from not having procuring policies, why would you want one? I ask the question again. The third big hurdle which my political opponents have never been successful at managing is enforcement. We have Spoiler singing about himself trying himself, but our friends never had and will never have the courage, the morality or the ethics to keep their fingers and their friends’ fingers and their families’ fingers out of the financial pie. When they get “ketch” there is no punishment and no penalty because they made sure there is no legislation. There are millstones and there are milestones in our history and what the lack of procurement legislation has done to this country, it is billions or even trillions of dollars going down the drain and the people who have raped and pillaged the country’s Treasury remain untouchable. There are few that are going to be touched pretty soon. Why I talk about this, Mr. President—if the money that was garnered over the years of the People’s National Movement whilst they were in power, if that money was put to proper use, if that money was put to the benefit of the people of Trinidad and Tobago, today, we would not have to sit here for two and a half hours to answer questions that were put to this side, things that they could have done with this money over the 38 or 40 years they were in power. 48 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Al-Rawi: You are talking about NEDCO? Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: I am talking about everything that you know that I am speaking about. I am saying, Mr. President, they ask questions that they know that over the years the things they ought to have done with the money, they took it and squandered it, stashed it away, stashed it away all over the world. We look at one simple question about procurement. Sen. Al-Rawi: Try SIS. Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: I will talk to you not about SIS, I will talk to you about the gas to liquids. The gas to liquids, my dear friend, was first brought to the table in 2000 when there was a conference held by Petrotrin on what can be done with gas to liquids. I have here before me an email sent by Prof. Julien to Malcolm Jones, and I would like to quote it because I am going to go into this gas to liquids in a big way. Hon. Senator: Name the date. Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: You want the date? Hon. Senator: Yes. Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: March 05, 2004. I will supply you with copies if you do not have and I will supply you with all the information about it. It says:— this came from World GTL “Dear Dr. Julien: Thank you for your assistance and direction during our meetings last week. As promised, attached is a proposal for a small GTL plant to be located at the Petrotrin Refinery in Pointe-a-Pierre. As we discussed, a large scale GTL plant is not feasible at this time in Trinidad. World GTL, however, has some small GTL plants expertise.”—and that I question—“We can, for example, relocate and convert idle methanol plants to produce GTL using our patent pending process. We propose to start very small. Our proposed plant could be operational within 18 months and would produce about 1600 barrels per day consisting of the zero sulphur, high cetane…Diesel…and Naptha…in Phase I, and could be scalable in Phase II to about 3000 barrels per day. World GTL proposes that a joint venture with Petrotrin where World GTL...”— and—“the GTL plant, the technology, the finance and the project management, and the joint venture would earn an interest in a…production license, limited 49 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

to the gas resources required to operate the plant... The respective interests of the parties would be based upon the value of their respective contributions, such as the project works for everyone. Following the execution of a Memorandum of Understanding, World GTL will commence a feasibility study to determine the costs associated with the relocation, conversion & re-assembly of an appropriate methanol facility at the Petrotrin refinery. The study would also include synergies between GTL plant and the refinery, (several of which have already been identified) and potential markets for the GTL products. The attached document goes into greater detail on our proposal...” Sen. Young: Mr. President, on Standing Order 34—Sorry, I would like to raise 35(2). This matter is actually sub judice in the matter of Petrotrin v Malcolm Jones. I am personally aware as I am one of the counsel for the defendant in that matter, and these documents are actually currently before the courts for decision on various aspects and it is going through the system. Action has been filed, the matter of Petrotrin v Malcolm Jones. Mr. President: Thank you, Senator. Minister of Tourism, therefore the matter is sub judice and you will not be permitted to bring those matters that are under the purview of the courts before this Senate at this point in time. Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: Thank you, Mr. President. I will move away from the issue at hand and I will deal with other issues that are not sub judice, [Desk thumping] only to say that it is a great pity because things like these need to be— [Interruption] Hon. Senator: Aired. Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed:—aired and spoken out. Sen. Al-Rawi: And it will be in the courts. Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: It will be. I can tell you it will be. Sen. Al-Rawi: Wasted costs. Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: Yeah. I want to start at 1956. [Laughter] Do not laugh. I mean, I tell you, you laugh, but I will explain why you should not laugh. Those who do not know history are condemned to repeat it. The same people doing the same thing, the same way, cannot get a different answer. [Desk thumping] Understand, Senators. Understand. 50 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. G. HADEED] You all lived through a history of corruption, pillage and whatever. This country needs to know every single thing that you all have done, and I will just go through a few of them so the country would remember how badly you all governed this country. Hon. Senator: Tell them what you do. Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: What I will do? In my short period of time, I have done more than you could do in 56 years. [Desk thumping] The PNM came into power on a platform of morality in public affairs—remember. Can you believe that? Putting the PNM in power was like putting sugar in your gas tank. At first, it is all sweetness and then the pressure starts to build up. Eventually, the engine comes to a complete stop and you have a major problem in removing it. We were able to remove them, but they are still trying to clog the machinery. The first thing that happened to the platform of morality in public affairs was a Minister taking his son out of a police station. I want to talk about the mistakes the Government of the NAR found in 1986 after an interrupted time that the PNM had in office—an interrupted time—and then I will come to 2010, what this Government found to be such atrocious mistakes that the PNM did. I will say quite a bit of it and it is not sub judice. The PNM fell victim to the challenges and temptations of office and power. It was unable to transcend its original goal of wrestling power from its colonial masters. It failed to develop a new sense of purpose and the political will to achieve the genuine liberation of our people. Not surprisingly, it abandoned it stated goal of the economic and social transformation of our society. When the NAR was in power—got into power in 1986— Unemployment had risen sharply from 9.9 per cent in 1982 to 17 per cent in 1986, and it was rising. The country’s foreign exchange reserves had dwindled from $7.6 billion to $1.1 billion by the late 1986. I am bringing these things back to people’s memory because should the people ever make a mistake to return the PNM to power, I want them to remember exactly what governments face each time the People’s National Movement was put in charge of the Treasury. This is the reason I am going back through these issues. Oil revenue had collapsed from $3.2 billion in 1982 to $1.6 billion in 1986. 51 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

At the end of 1986, the total public debt (internal/external) stood at $9 billion. The dependency syndrome that had been created during the period of 1956 to ‘86 was worse than “the chains of colonialism” since it literally enslaved thousands of people by making them dependent upon the State for almost everything that mattered to them in their daily lives. Out of the PNM came a clique of individuals, committed to the politics of manipulation and control, determined to cling to office and to power, and to whatever cost to the national community. Diversionary tactics of all sorts are used by the regime to distract from the real issues and to cover up scandals and blunders. False alarms, false arrests, organized propaganda, scare tactics and dirty tricks define the style of government which the people of Trinidad and Tobago had to endure every day. Every decision and action is the service of power to accumulate more and to preserve it more. On the economic front, the situation steadily grows worse. Strikes, lockouts, collapse of financial institutions, receiverships have wreaked havoc with the lives of honest hard-working people. 2.15 p.m. Remember Trinidad and Tobago, this was a Government that continued to try and fool the people, to take what was theirs and hand it to a few of their own. That is why all of these things happened. Joblessness had become the order of the day. The Government cannot pay wages to its workers nor can it meet its financial commitments to the local government bodies and businessmen of the country. Today, we see—or Friday, we saw the PNM waltzing around the town with some trade unions. I want to remind the trade unions that the former PNM Governments never had any good things for the trade union movement; never ever had! And I warn them, should the PNM get back into power—[Interruption] Hon. Senator: When? Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: Not “when”, that will be about 15 or 20,000 years from now; forget about that. The Government has kept—remember, joblessness had become the order of the day, and the Government could not pay wages. You understand? What I am reading here is what happened prior to 1986. The Government kept demolishing the houses of the poor and the stalls of vendors in the most ruthless and arrogant fashion. 52 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. G. HADEED] Senior citizens, in the care of the State, are sent up in flames through criminal neglect at a hospital— You all forget these things but I am here to remind you all of it. [Desk thumping] I am here to remind every one of you all of that because it was wrong and nothing has happened since then. People are treated as things, as though they are bloodless without feeling, without desires, without minds, such as the cold, calculated arrogance of that party that was in power. There were more than 100,000 people unemployed, of whom more than 50,000 were youths. Every day, more people are thrown on the breadline as businesses—large, medium and small—come to an abrupt end. I want to remind the business community who seems to be supporting this Government—this Opposition. I want to remind them, in 1990, when your PNM colleagues were walking with SOPO and planning with the trade unions, that created the environment for the Muslimeen to invade the Parliament and Port of Spain and the environs were set on fire. I want to remind the business people, it was the National Alliance for Reconstruction that found the mechanism to help these young businessmen’s parents to rebuild the city. Do not fall prey to the stupidity that is being put forward by the People’s National Movement. Do not fall prey to any of their promises; their promises will not materialize. Workers—[Crosstalk] Take it easy, you will have your chance. Or, you spoke already? You did not say nothing much eh! [Laughter] Workers who have given their life’s service to companies cannot receive their severance benefits to which they were legally entitled. Workers in oil and sugar, workers on the docks, civil servants, jobs—all kinds are threatened by the precarious economic conditions. There is no hope for reprieve under the PNM Government. Let us deal with civil servants. This Government would love to expand the civil service. I understand that the leader aspirant—I do not know if it is Sen. Al- Rawi because he got more votes than his political leader but either one of them— would like to close the civil service down and make it very, very small. So it means to say that you all want to put civil servants on the breadline. This is what you all want to do and that is wrong. [Desk thumping] We will expand it under this Government; more jobs will be created to be able to run the country properly. 53 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Corruption of all types has become the norm in the country; it has become a way of life. Under the PNM, persons of independence and integrity are now endangered species. [Crosstalk] I am having a sip of water to deal with you guys. [Continuous crosstalk] The greatest damage to the country has been caused by the failure of the PNM to foster among the population, moral and spiritual values and a sense of patriotism. [Desk thumping] There is a lack of leadership, of vision, of planning and political will. The vulture-like behaviour at the top has fostered materialism, self-seeking and individualism in all sections of our community. The party has fostered the attitude of not what I can do for my country but what I can do for the vested interests who fund the party, the People’s National Movement. [Desk thumping] I would like to point out some of the economic mess that was created by the PNM in those days: There is no doubt that the PNM has failed to achieve the kind of economic and social transformation that we hoped for and expected with full internal self- government and independence. After 30 years of uninterrupted rule, the economy was in no way fitted to survive. Remember, survive! No way fitted to survive! You all allowed this economy to degenerate to such an extent—the PNM allowed the economy to degenerate to such an extent that what happened in the end was the Parliament being invaded, Prime Minister shot, many people lost their lives, including a parliamentarian, because the money that was supposed to go for betterment of the people was squandered, [Desk thumping] was stolen, pillaged. All of you all there remind me, on the PNM side, of the Pirates of the Caribbean. I do not know which one of you all can stand up and deny what I am saying. Which one of you all here can stand up and deny what I am talking about? You all laugh at this, these are serious issues. I bring it back to the attention of this country because I do not want the country to make a similar mistake prior to what they did previously. The PNM is an artist of deception; total artist of deception. The PNM had more than enough time to do the job they claimed they were doing in 1956. They had 30 years of uninterrupted rule. Few governments in the world have had the advantage of such a long time span to do work that they were set out to do. 54 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. G. HADEED] They were in Government during an oil boom which generated more than $50 billion in revenue in 10 years. [Crosstalk] We have proof of what was done by the People’s Partnership Government which I will give you all documents to educate yourselves for you all to stop talking nonsense about what the Government has been able to achieve. By contrast, the Government’s revenues totalled just $3 billion. They had all the capital they needed to effect positive change, but through waste, corruption, mismanagement and unintelligent investment decisions, this windfall of capital was squandered. [Crosstalk] The word is “squandered”. Reasons for the PNM’s failure: The PNM continued to rely on imported models of development that bore little relation to the unique realities and conditions of Trinidad and Tobago. The PNM never seriously adjusted themselves to what had to be done to transform the economy from backwardness and underdevelopment to one capable of self- sustained growth with the capacity to withstand the inevitable benefits and vagaries of an international economy. They never really came to terms with what was involved in successful industrialization. The PNM leadership never understood that foreign capital in the form of foreign direct investment and multinational corporations never by itself developed any country, anywhere. Sen. Dr. Henry: Plan for the Minister of Energy and Energy Affairs. Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: If you paid attention last night, you would have heard on TV, Mr. Bob Dudley of BP speaking about the energy sector and the hon. Minister of Energy and Energy Affairs. Sen. Henry, it will be for your benefit that you secure a copy of what was said on TV last night about the economy of Trinidad and Tobago, that the People’s Partnership Government grew from stagnation when you all left power in 1990. Get a copy; you are an economist, you would learn something. The PNM did not understand that trying to export commodities based on resources we have abundance of—in oil, natural gas, asphalt—can fail if the demand of those commodities failed. The PNM systematically put the wrong people in positions of power on the basis of wrong criteria. [Crosstalk] They have systematically over centralized their decision-making and they have never understood how to really train people for leadership roles. They have never come up with the correct understanding of what needs to be done about the economy for these very reasons. 55 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

You know, you talk about people, Sen. Al-Rawi, two or three people in wrong positions—[Interruption] Sen. Al-Rawi: Twenty people fired by “allyuh”. Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: Do not talk about firing, let us talk about the issues that you need to listen to. You need to listen about the issues of how corruption has killed this country—[Interruption] Sen. Al-Rawi: The LifeSport programme. Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: Yes—corruption that has killed this country. You could say whatever you want to say but I will say to you, you are talking about corruption, let us talk about Lock Joint. Let us talk about the DC9 fiasco. Let us talk about Sun Jet Lockheed scandal. You want to talk about something—Sam P. Wallace. You want to talk again? The MV Su—that is in your time, I will give you a little about it. Think about the MV Su, on June 10, 2012, Anna Ramdass of the Trinidad Express wrote: “More than $127 million of taxpayers’ money has been lost following the sale of four water taxis that were purchased under the People’s National Movement…administration—including the controversial MV Su that…never”—sailed. “Who he named that boat after?” That Minister of Transport: “who he named it after?” “Documents obtained by the Express”—has shown—“$55 million was spent to buy and repair the MV Su which has been sold for”—$548,000 as— “…scrap”—metal. And Sen. Stuart Young said I should not speak about a particular issue in court but that was three thousand, one hundred billion dollars. 2.30 p.m. Now, if I worked how you spent three thousand, one hundred billion dollars. You have 13—[Interruption] Hon. Senator: What! A trillion dollars? Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: Three thousand, one hundred million, three billion, one hundred million. When you take 16 of the people—when you take 16 of the Representatives in the Lower House, and multiply—and put six of you all 19 of you all, Mr. President, sorry— [Laughter]—and they put 19 of you all at 56 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. G. HADEED] $30,000 a month, it will take 467 years collectively to pay back that money. Work it out, 467 years to pay back that money you all squandered. It is three billion, one hundred million. You know what could have been done with that? The Tobago budget is not that, and all of that just gassed away, oiled away and frittered away. [Desk thumping] My God! My God! You all do not have any conscience for this country? No conscience whatever? [Crosstalk] My God! And you sit down there and you laugh like if it is a joke. [Crosstalk] It is not a joke. It is factual, Mr. President. It is factual, sorry. I like to engage them, you know. I like to engage them, however, a nation in crisis. A nation in crisis! But before we look at Tesoro, I will give you another one, Mr. President. Before we look at Tesoro a little more closely, let us go to 1986, when the manifesto, the NAR referred to as “A Nation In Crisis”, among the issues we highlighted was corruption. We said corruption of all types has become the norm in the country, Mr. President. Corruption has become a way of life and none are more jealously protected by the State, than the corrupt. Under the existing regime, persons of independence and integrity are now endangered. The O’Halloran scandal, the PLIPDECO cover up, the MV Tobago disaster. You name it. You name it. It was all part, Mr. President, all part of naked corruption under the People’s National Movement. During the debate on the Tesoro scandal, Mr. President, Mr. Shand at the time was reading into the record from a sworn deposition from a Tesoro official John Rahr, advising the Tesoro management to pay the $2 million bribe, that Johnny O’Halloran demanded from them. The statement from Rahr was: I advised Detwiler—who was one of the people named in the action—that in my view, it would be a very good deal for Tesoro, and that the $2 million was a trifling amount in relation to the long-term benefits to a small company like Tesoro. Mr. Shand went on to say of Mr. Rahr: He was a very astute financial analyst because in 1968, he was able to calculate that $2 million bribe was going to bring enormous returns to the Tesoro Petroleum Corporation of San Antonio, Texas, a small unknown company which was only founded in 1964, four years prior to these shady deals. In research, I got hold of the consolidated financial statements of the Tesoro Petroleum Corporation for the years 1967 to 1974. In 1968, the year prior to the acquisition of 49.9 per cent of the assets of British Petroleum, the corporation 57 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 called Trinidad Tesoro Petroleum Company Limited, the gross income from Tesoro was $24.6 million. One year later in 1969, it almost tripled to $70.6 million, not because they did anything fantastic in the United States, but simply because they got a good corrupt deal in the Trinidad Tesoro Petroleum Corporation Limited under the People’s National Movement. Between 1968 and 1974, the income not only tripled, it multiplied itself 21 times. Whereas in 1968, prior to engagements in Trinidad Tesoro Petroleum Company they had $24.6 million income, in 1974, the figure was now $534.9 million. [Interruption] It is interesting, Mr. President, when Mr. Joseph Toney said, for far too long the whole idea of parliamentary privileges have been used— just like what my friend just talked to me about—used to hide and sweep under the carpet, the whole matter of corruption, and the use of parliamentary privilege must now be used to expose corruption in whatever form or fashion. That Parliament was invaded by armed men. Mr. President, this was not a coincidence. I do not want to read all of Mount Hope and Sodeteg, but remember, that is part of your corrupt living. I do not want to go through and talk about anyone—let us do some of them actually. Let us just do some of them. [Continuous crosstalk] It is really nice to bring your minds back to all of the corruption you all fellas were involved in. Mr. President, the procurement of MV Su. The procurement, and I use the word “procurement”, how they procured it? Corruptly? I really do not know, but it was procured not in the fashion we are bringing here today, under procurement legislation. It was procured with bribes and corruption. The procurement of the $2 million legacy flag. Do you remember that? The contract to provide drugs for CDAP Programme, awarded to a former Minister of Health’s family; procuring legal services from a firm linked to the former Speaker of the House; procuring temporary accommodations for the brother of a Minister and what, the uncle of a present Senator, $38,000 a month; allowing the state utility company to procure insurance from a firm owned by a Minister; procuring legal services from the husband of a finance Minister. That same finance—a finance Minister who again, with the massive $35 billion that this Government had to pay. The people’s money to bail out Clico—which the People’s National Movement collected $15 million as a donation to fund a campaign. [Crosstalk] Hon. Senator: “How much UNC collect?” Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: I have a cheque to show how much money was paid, Mr. President, to the People’s National Movement, $15 million. When that 58 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. G. HADEED] side can bring, Mr. President, a cheque to show how much this side received, it will be educational for me, but I know none was given. Procuring services worth $60 million from the wife of a PNM chairman days before the 2010 election, $5 million worth of materials from the Tobago hospital was procured for a different project. Look, look at this, [Sen. Hadeed flips through a sheaf of documents] I cannot really go through all of them, Mr. President. [Crosstalk] What I would like now is to just say a few things on the manifesto achievements of our Government. Listen and learn, so you could at least try to understand what good governance is about. [Desk thumping] Mr. President, I want to refer all hon. Senators present to this document. In it we have presented a full compendium of achievements of our manifesto promises. And this does not include things we have done for the benefit of the country that were not in the manifesto. These are some of our vast range of achievements that we were able to do so much in such a short time, despite the global recession because we did not plunder the Treasury. We did not plunder the Treasury! Mr. President: Senator, your time has expired. Hon. Senators, the speaking time of the Minister of Tourism has expired. Motion made: That the hon. Senator’s speaking time be extended by 15 minutes. [Hon. G. Singh] Question put and agreed to. [Desk thumping] Sen. The Hon. G. Hadeed: I thank the Opposition for allowing me to speak for a further 15 minutes, and all the hon. Senators in the House. [Desk thumping] Yes, I wanted to just go over, Mr. President, a number of achievements that were promised in our manifesto, that we have been able to bring to the country, so that the country would be—the country is now in a much better position than they were ever in under any regime that has ruled Trinidad and Tobago. It is because of the astuteness of our dearest Prime Minister, [Desk thumping] the hon. Kamla Persad-Bissessar. In the Ministry of Tertiary Education and Skills Training, Mr. President, the MTEST and Microsoft Trinidad and Tobago signed a memorandum of understanding in January 2014. This exciting initiative would give young nationals a chance to work and learn with Microsoft TT, and their partner companies. 59 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Mr. President, the 216-bed San Fernando Teaching Hospital at Chancery Lane, San Fernando, would be under the authority of the University of the West Indies, and will deliver postgraduate and undergraduate studies as future generations would be trained in various areas of expertise. The Ministry of Education—I will just deal with a few of the issues we have been able to achieve. Mr. President, over the past two years, the Ministry of Education has completed the construction of 13 primary schools in its 2013/2014 construction programme—as scheduled, the construction of 42 replacement primary schools. Over the past three years, the Ministry of Education has completed the construction of and formally opened four secondary schools namely: Marabella South, Aranguez North, Couva West and Five Rivers Secondary. Mr. President, the Ministry of Education handed over the Lengua Presbyterian Primary School in October 2013. The Ministry of Education has handed over the Monkey Town Government Primary School. They are awaiting—also after 10 years of waiting, the St. Barbara’s Spiritual Shouter Baptist Primary School was delivered in March of 2011. The school has been successfully operating for the past three years. The Ministry of Education is working towards, achieving universal Early Childhood Care Education by 2015. Under the Early Childhood Care Education Centres, this would be achieved by the construction of new centres, public/private partnerships, implementing of appropriate curriculum, adequate number of trained teachers, children appropriately screened and treated to ensure equal optimal growth, development in learning, effective management and supervision of the ECCE system, legislation that supports ECCE system requirements, seamless transition to the primary schools, and many other things. The Ministry of Tertiary Education and Skills Training—there are so many things in there. You have the innovation of human capital, access to the initial inclusion, e-business and ICT sector development, infrastructure development and eGovernment. There are so much things I can talk about here, but I would just—I only have 15 minutes. I will take another two hours given the opportunity. The Ministry of Local Government has upgraded the San Juan Market and built a new Siparia Market. Improvement works are being completed on the Point Fortin Market, Tunapuna/Piarco Market, Mayaro Market, Princes Town Market, Penal Market, Rio Claro Market and Arima Market. 60 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. G. HADEED] Rehabilitation works have been completed on the Paria Main Road, Blanchisseuse and the Grandison Road extension bridge. The Ministry of Local Government has upgraded cemeteries. We do not forget the dead. We remember the dead and we respect the dead. Not you guys. The Ministry of Sport—where is Sen. Al-Rawi, Mr. President? The Ministry of Sport [Crosstalk]—Mr. President, did you know that the Ministry of Sport launched its Taking Sport to Rural Areas Programme in June of 2013, to create sporting opportunities in rural communities? The initiative provides sports for all rural areas such as Toco, Mayaro, Matelot, Grand Riviere, Blanchisseuse, Balandra, Moruga, Cedros, Icacos, Penal, Debe, La Brea, Morne Diablo, Biche, Tamana, Talparo, Siparia and Point Fortin. All of these people have been serviced by the Ministry of Sport. 2.45 p.m. You all forgot those people and you come here today to crave their indulgence to vote for you. Shame! Shameless! Did you know that the Spirit of Sport award is the premier recognition event of the Ministry of Sport and the Sports Company of Trinidad and Tobago Limited, and is now in its third year? The award was launched to recognize the tremendous courage, determination and national pride shown by our athletes and persons involved in sport at all levels. Mr. President, did you know that the Ministry of Sport is constructing three mega facilities: an aquatic centre in Couva, a cycling velodrome in Couva and a tennis centre in Tacarigua. [Desk thumping] Did you know that the Elite Athlete Assistance Programme under the Ministry of Sport is designed to support our top athletes to prepare for international competitions? Recipients receive annual amounts ranging from $100,000 for junior athletes to $600,000 for top rated senior athletes. Annual recipients include Jehue Gordon, Njisane Phillip, Keshorn Walcott and Richard Thompson. This thing is too numerous under the sport ministry, so I will bypass some of them. Ministry of Planning and Sustainable Development. Did you know that the Centre for Enterprise Development is now ready after the Freeport facility was officially launched on June 26, 2012? Just a few years after the sod-turning ceremony marking the beginning of construction, it is the first such facility to be constructed in the country and it is in reality an incubation and business development centre. Mr. President, did you know that the Chaguaramas Boardwalk has transformed Williams Bay by making it a key space for social, economical and recreational activities on any day at any time on the peninsula? The venue now attracts as 61 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 many as 7,000 people on the weekend. Phase 2 of the boardwalk will include activities such as rock climbing, miniature golf, kayaking, business spaces and children’s play areas, among other exciting activities. [Interruption] I think that is down in the area of the Leader of the Opposition. I think he should pass by there and see some of the people how they enjoy themselves. Mr. President, did you know that Trinidad and Tobago was chosen to host the Americas Competitiveness Forum, which will be held in Port of Spain in October 2014? The main goal of the ACF is to inspire programmes, policies and partnerships that will improve economic prosperity at local, national, regional levels and ensure a brighter future for the people of the region. One thousand, two hundred leaders from 34 countries will attend the conference in Port of Spain this year. Mr. President, did you know that the multi-phase waste water rehabilitation programme, the single largest project to be funded by the IDB in Trinidad and Tobago was finalized in January 2013 and is now in preparatory stages before it begins the massive engineering task of modernizing collection and treatment of sewerage in the country. Ministry of National Security, Ministry of Health, Ministry of Public Utilities, Ministry of Gender, Youth and Child Development, Ministry of People and Social Development, Ministry of Energy and Energy Affairs, Ministry of Public Administration, my God! If you go through all of these things this Government has done, pages and pages and pages and pages. Oh my! Ministry of Tourism, you want to learn a little bit about that? [Desk thumping] Did you know that they launched a national Tourism Education and Awareness programme entitled “Our Tourism: It’s About All of Us”. The words are: “it’s About All of Us”; not about a few people. It is about all of us and those people “ain’t”carry placards because “all ah we is one”. [Desk thumping] Mr. President, do you know that Trinidad and Tobago won the Junior Chef of the Year award in the 2013 Taste of the Caribbean competition? Did you know that the Ministry of Tourism upgraded the zoo? The zoo is now completed. [Desk thumping] You can take your children. I know they would like it. You can go there. The zoo is now completed. I am told that Sen. Young has gone there and he likes it. [Crosstalk] The African exhibition and construction of the tiger enclosure within the Asian exhibit. New animals secured: giraffes, warthogs, lions and tigers. There is the introduction of non-stop service by WestJet between Toronto and Port of 62 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. G. HADEED] Spain and recently from Miami to Port of Spain. Did you know, Mr. President, that approval has been granted for the implementation of the Southern Caribbean cruise ship initiative. The initiative comprises five islands and four destinations, namely, Trinidad and Tobago, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and Grenada. The proposal considers the use of cruise ships as a key strategy in the transportation of passengers to the various islands included in the project. Trinidad and Tobago is expected to be the home port. That is just a few things. There are so many things that we are doing there and developing our country. We are developing our country both for foreigners and for Trinidadians and Tobagonians. The Ministry of National Diversity and Social Integration, many things. The Ministry of Food Production. My dear friend, the Senator, who has been working so hard. Mr. President, did you know that the Agro-Eco Tourism Park in Rancho Quemado is open to visitors who want to experience agriculture first-hand? Did you know that the farm in South Trinidad is a great place to learn about rearing and caring for animals including macaws, rabbits, ducks and peacocks? Did you also know that the Youth Apprenticeship Programme in Agriculture (YAPA) is open to persons aged 18—25 who want a career in agriculture? There are nine areas in which YAPA is active: Curepe, Wallerfield, Point Fortin, Penal, Chase Village, Princes Town, Sangre Grande, Ecclesville and Tobago. Did you know, Mr. President, that the Caribbean Fisheries Training and Development Institute trained over 500 people in fishing and fish processing? Did you know that a total of 242 on-farm irrigation ponds have been constructed in the communities of Jerningham, Felicity, Caroni, Waterloo, Fishing Pond, Edinburgh, Exchange. These ponds reduce losses due to drought and flooding and provide the opportunity to fisherfolk. I believe, Sen. Avinash, you can get some water for your sweet potatoes. Did you know that to make it easier for farmers to plant and transport their crops and reduce prices to customers 23.4 kilometres, 11 roads, of new agricultural access roads were constructed in Esmeralda, Exchange, Waterloo, Warren and Caroni? In closing, because I think my time is expiring, I want just to close by saying that the civil society group backs this procurement legislation. The civil society lobby—this is an article by Andre Bagoo—including key industrial stakeholders such as the Joint Consultative Council, the local construction industry and Trinidad and Tobago Chamber of Industry and Commerce and Transparency International yesterday endorsed new legislation on tendering, which is to be debated in the Senate. That was last time we were here. 63 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

So, we do have and we have consulted throughout the transformation in bringing this Bill to Parliament; that we can have discussions in a civilized manner and come to consensus. So, in closing, I would like to thank the honourable House for the opportunity; my Government for giving me the opportunity to speak here today and also thanking the civil society groups for endorsing this legislation. I thank you. [Desk thumping] Sen. Stuart Young: Good afternoon, Mr. President, Members of the Senate. I would like to start by putting this Bill, in my respectful view, in a bit of context and, more importantly, as I see it, the importance of this legislation. Trinidad and Tobago, as with most jurisdictions, has finite resources. Despite what some persons may think, our resources will come to an end and Governments are entrusted to be the gatekeepers to protect the people’s assets; to invest wisely; not to squander and waste our limited resources. We have seen unprecedented levels of expenditure in the last four years. The last fiscal budget was $62 billion and the population is still questioning where has this money gone. We have state bodies, ministries, state enterprises, statutory corporations and government-controlled entities that are charged with the responsibility of ensuring that we get the best value for our dollar. That is what must be the mantra of any caring Government. Any Government that is concerned about its population and importantly the future, the mantra should be, I respectfully suggest, Mr. President, best value for every dollar spent and that is the backdrop and the importance of legislation such as the Bill that we have before the honourable Senate today. It is with this context and this background in mind that I ask that we consider the Bill before us. And just by the name of the Bill alone, the Public Procurement and Disposal of Public Property Bill, 2014, the name alone is an indication of this Bill’s importance in ensuring the best value for every dollar spent, ensuring that the protection of the public purse and the Treasury is at the forefront of our minds this afternoon. You can break the name of the Bill, I respectfully suggest, into two parts: one is the public procurement and two is the disposal of public property; two very important elements in the protection of the Treasury and in the protection of our future. It is accepted, on this side, that there is a need for the reform of the public procurement process. 64 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. YOUNG] This Bill is a dynamic reformation of public procurement for Trinidad and Tobago. [Desk thumping] This Bill, it is important to note, is the product, as was just suggested, of consultation, but also joint select committee. There was a joint select committee. A joint select committee sat on it and produced a report twice, as I was about to say— thank you, Sen. Singh—and, therefore, I endorse the need for this type of reform of the public procurement process. What we have taking place via this Bill, is what I would call a decentralization of the process. We are moving away from the Central Tenders Board, which prior to this Bill and the existing legislation, is one entity trying to do the tendering process for the whole State and that has proved to be very difficult, almost unworkable over the years. So the minds got together and they have decided, in my view quite sensibly, to decentralize and to create, as we will come to in a short while, a body to oversee the public procurement process in Trinidad and Tobago as well as the disposal of public property. This party supports the policy of reform of public procurement and disposal of public property. [Desk thumping] We put that on the table because at the end of the day it is the country’s resources and the country’s Treasury and we must work together to protect it. I would like to touch very briefly on the history of this Bill coming here. We had heard it very clearly, and Sen. Hadeed referred to it a short while ago and I will get to it a bit later on in my contribution. When the Government came into power in May 2010, it was a part of their manifesto and they told the population that they will be dealing with the issues of procurement. We are here now in—the Bill was laid by the hon. Sen. Dr. Tewarie in April 2014, so almost four years later we now have before us an important piece of legislation. It has gone through, as Sen. Ganga Singh just pointed out, two joint select committees. One of the questions I had, though, because the last and final report issued by the joint select committee was in June 2012 and this was debated and approved and then it took us all the way until April 2014 to get this piece of legislation before us. 3.00 p.m. I would like to say at the outset, in looking at it I saw that on June 24, 2012, an article by Sean Douglas in the Newsday, it quoted the hon. Minister Tewarie when he was talking about the future legislation. He said: “…the JSC”—had—“agreed that a new office of ‘Procurement Regulator”— would—“be created by statute to oversee public procurement in TT, largely inspired by the Jamaican statutory office of”—a—“Contractor General.” 65 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

I have looked at the Jamaican legislation and, yes, ours is based in some measure on the contractor-general legislation and, I think, quite sensibly, we have pulled legislation from various jurisdictions and put it together. I had also studied the Singaporean legislation. I think Singapore is a country that is an emerging nation we can look towards and seeing that they have treated it very differently to the Bill, but we have taken, importantly, from their Bill, the challenge to the proceedings. We have taken that from their legislation and inserted it into ours. Two things stood out to me when I was looking back at history to see how this Bill came to be and, I think, first and foremostly, it is important, as Dr.Tewarie is quoted as saying, this is: “‘Framework legislation rather than prescriptive legislation…’” That is an important point for us to note and to mark the record as we are looking at this Bill here today. What it means is we are outlining the framework for the future and this has to be now fleshed out. The methodology proposed in this Bill for fleshing out the particulars as to how this procurement legislation would work comes via regulations. That is an extremely important point for us to note, and it is a shame that unfortunately we were not presented with the Bill and some draft regulations at the same time, because I saw it was said, via this article in June 2012: “…the JSC wants both this framework legislation and the general regulations to come to Parliament together.”—Because—“A wide net must cover State institutions.” Unfortunately, this was not done. As we go through the Bill, I will point out certain areas where there is great reference to the regulations. I would have preferred personally to have the draft before us so we could—[Interruption] So I have been informed. It could have been done at the same time, because at the end of the day it is draft regulations for which we can work. Sen. Dr. Tewarie: Mr. President, if the hon. Senator would give way. I think in my presentation I indicated why we did not have the regulations. In fact, when this Bill was drafted we had seven regulations accompanying the Bill, but when the decision was taken based on the representation by the private sector civil society group, that they would prefer that the regulator and the regulating entity be put in place before regulations were done. Once we conceded that, we also had to concede that the regulations would have to be made by the regulator. 66 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. S. Young: Thank you, hon. Minister. That is the explanation, and as is being pointed out to me, unfortunately, the Opposition was not made aware of that at the time. I was also told, prior to the debate here today, and I will get to it in a short while, about the provision that is dealing with the regulator providing the regulations, but I will get to that shortly. So, if I may—having laid out that contextual background and recognizing the importance of this legislation—now turn to a brief analysis of it and I will focus on some key areas that have troubled me and bothered me. I am assured that once they are legitimate concerns they will be taken on board, because there is a joint recognition of the importance of this legislation. This Bill, in my respectful view, the important features of this Bill start, foremostly, unlike a lot of other legislation I have looked at, in the definition section, we see the definition of “bid rigging”. It is good to see an acceptance of this unfortunate scourge on our Treasury, and then very early on, in clause 4, under the classified information we see: “‘classified information’—is going to be—“other information as prescribed by Regulations;” So, again, this is going to have to be a policy decision that is taken, and I would just stick the pin there. We get to the “electronic reverse auction”, and I have a number of concerns with this feature of going via electronic procurement, and I will use the analogy of the Civil Proceeding Rules in the court, which we put in place, I believe, in 2005, the new CPR. We have now, nine years later, the CPR provides for the filing of documents in the court system, which is a much smaller, much more controlled environment than what we see as the whole public procurement process of all state enterprises, and nine years later, unfortunately, there is still not in place the ability for the filing of court documents via email and other electronic means, including via fax, even though the civil procedure rules provided for it, and those civil procedure rules, of course, were drafted since 1998. So you had lead time of, 98 to 2005, allowing for things to be put in place, and even after 2005 to now, some nine years later, we still do not have the infrastructure and I cannot emphasize in a small controlled environment such as this, which is the court system, of providing for electronic filing of documents, even though the rules provide for it. So I caution us here, that when we are now looking at something as important as public procurement that we need to understand, before we approve at this stage, an electronic procurement system, the 67 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 type of infrastructure that must be put in place, especially in a procurement environment we have to look at the Acts, for example, the Data Protection Act, the Computer Misuse Act. But it is not only via legislation, we must be aware, and I will get to in a short while, my concerns about the ability to fund and resource this new creature being created. [Desk thumping] One then turns the page and you see under pre-qualification, pre-qualification documents, pre-selection, pre-selection documents, the constant reference, the means “the procedure set out in the regulations”. The reference to regulations, I have had answered by the hon. Dr. Tewarie, Sen. Tewarie, why the regulations are not here at this stage, but it also concerned me from past experience, because in another piece of important legislation that is similar to this one, the Integrity in Public Life Act, that Act was passed and it provides in that Act for forms to be prescribed. Again, a very simple, seemingly process, of just the creation of forms to then be approved by Parliament, and it took a number of years before the Integrity Commission was able to achieve that. In fact, I was involved in the then litigation, on behalf of the Integrity Commission, when a case was brought by Mr. Basdeo Panday against it, and that was one of the issues that they were unable, persons in public life were unable to fulfil the requirements under the parent Act, under the body, the legislation, because there were not yet forms prescribed. And here we are entering into this serious, more wide-ranging arena of public procurement and disposal of public property and we do not know what the regulations will interface, how it will interface, but I am more concerned about being able to man the infrastructure that is necessary and resource this giant that we are creating to protect the public purse and Treasury. I then look at the “public body” definition, and I caution. There are a number of definitions under public body, for example, you go to (i), “a State controlled enterprise”, and I question, in which the State holds over 50 per cent of the retiring shares. Again, we know through the process of litigation and the Court of Appeal decision in Civil Appeal 30 of 2008, which is the Telecommunications Services of Trinidad & Tobago Limited (TSTT) v The Integrity Commission and The Attorney General of Trinidad & Tobago, that when we pass legislation that is not clear as to what a state-controlled enterprise is, it can result in unnecessary litigation. So I hope that between now and then we can propose amendments for the proper formulation and correction of some of these things, or clarification of some of these definitions. For example, at (k): 68 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. YOUNG] “a body corporate or unincorporated entity— (i) in relation to any function which it exercises on behalf of the State;” If one looks at that: in relation to any function, that is as broad as you can get. The “public-private partnership arrangement”, I highlighted that. I thought that was an important recognition of a new element in a sphere of public and private partnership arrangements, and that is something that has been developing over the last decade or so. It is becoming an increasingly important way for Governments to move forward in getting plans moved to reality by forming partnerships with the private sector. “Services”, we will see later on, I am just highlighting it at this stage, when we get into the legislation, the definition of “services”, again, is a very broad one, and I caution as to whether it is completely thought out and just red flag it, because it now: “…includes professional, non-professional and commercial services as well as goods and works which are incidental to but not exceeding the value of those services;” From a policy point of view, I believe it is a good thing because it covers as wide and as broad a net as possible. “State-controlled enterprise”… a company incorporated under the laws of Trinidad and Tobago which is owned or controlled by the State;” I think we need to and we will red flag it, state the percentage of ownership. Is it a minority ownership, any ownership in such an entity? Of course, that will then even further widen the scope of this legislation. I found it a strange definition for “supplier” or “contractor”, meaning according to the context. I have never seen definition in legislation referring to according to the context. That will prove a logistical nightmare going forward, because one can foresee, as someone who is involved in litigation very frequently, trying to persuade a court what, “according to the context” means. Another legal nightmare, as I see it, under the definition of “sustainable procurement”. “‘sustainable procurement’ means a process whereby organisations meet their needs for goods, works or services in a way that achieves value for money on”— and this is the part that I red flagged—“a whole life basis in terms of generating benefits not only to the organisation, but also to society and the economy, whilst minimising damage to the environment;” 69 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Reading that now, it reminds me a little bit of my friend, the hon. Sen. Hadeed’s contribution a short while ago. I am not sure where that fits in, in this legislation. At clause 5, I think this is very laudable because we speak at clause 5 about the objects of the Act and it actually rang a short while ago: “The objects of this Act are to promote– (a) the principles of accountability, integrity, transparency and value for money; (b) efficiency, fairness and equity; and (c) local industry development, sustainable procurement and sustainable development, in public procurement and the disposal...” That is as laudable as you can get and no one can not support an Act with an object such as this, but the devil is in the detail. [Interruption] No. I am not about to wrap up as yet. At committee stage, there are a number of concerns that I have that I can point out, and then I will get to the main concerns I have with the legislation. At (1), clause 20, I caution here, Mr. Minister, that you all should rethink this. “The Office shall, within five years of the date of assent to this Act, establish a pension fund plan.” That, Mr. Minister, is a logistical nightmare. The type of fiduciary duties attached with running and managing a pension fund are not something, I respectfully suggest, that should bog down the office. One way around it, I was thinking, is we need to include in here, expressly, that they have the ability to utilize private pension plans, because to keep the investments in a pension fund current and to fulfil all those fiduciary duties, it is a massive, massive, onerous obligation. I am wondering why we would want to pin that on the office itself, as opposed to either through the public service superannuation and the pension plans that exist already. 3.15 p.m. Sen. Ahmed: Senator, would you give way? I just want to point out to the hon. Senator, through you Mr. President, that—thank you first of all for giving way, and to point out that pension plans do not have to be self-administered. That is an important consideration in financial planning, where I have the expertise. 70 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. S. Young: Thank you. Mr. President: Senator, 3.39 is the ordinary, regular time. Sen. S. Young: Mr. President, thank you very much. I am smiling because on all my prior occasions I have always finished under the 45-minute mark, and I am wondering now, everybody is red flagging my time. Thank you very much, Sen. Ahmed, but that is the point I was making, that the legislation does not speak to that. The legislation as drafted now at clause 20 says: “The Office shall, within five years of the date of assent to this Act, establish a pension fund plan.” I just want it to be expressed in there, because I am agreeing with you that that is the methodology you have just described for it to be done. [Interruption] If you say so, ma’am. I have not seen you in the courts interpreting legislation, but I take your word for it. Sen. Ahmed: I am not a lawyer. Sen. S. Young: Then clause 28, we must be careful again. I know we have provided this legislation requires a three-fifths majority, but discrimination under clause 28(2), when a procuring entity is seeking to exclude persons, that is something that must be looked at very carefully. Some of the concerns and the major concerns, and this is a very important workability aspect of this legislation, found at clause 30(1), I think it is also found further down in the Bill, which is where you are asking for the procuring entities to have their general guidelines approved by the office. In looking at this, Mr. President, it seems to me—and I would like to respectfully suggest and put on record—that when all of the state entities and enterprises are producing their own handbooks, their own guidelines, et cetera, which are then to be approved by the office, as provided for in the legislation, there is a marked effort and a serious effort made to provide for consistency throughout all of these regulations, because it becomes a logistical nightmare. [Interruption] Sen. Dr. Tewarie: Harmonization. Sen. S. Young: Correct, harmonization. Thank you very much, Dr. Tewarie, that is the word I was thinking of—but a harmonization and a consistency throughout all of the various entities and their various tender and procurement documents. 71 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

One main concern that I have, and I think I will run straight along to it, is that Part IV of the Bill, the investigation and enforcement. When looking at giving a body such as this—and I think we must, because it is only an audit function that it is performing, but also it may perform investigative functions—it is very important to ensure that it is properly resourced, especially when married with the ability to review, i.e., the challenge proceedings. We are giving this body two very important powers; one is the power to investigate and one is the whole review process that is actually an alternative to judicial review. So one cannot now go straight to the courts when they want to challenge a procurement process. You cannot go and seek leave to judicial review straightaway, because of course this is now an alternative remedy that is being provided by this Bill. So it shows and it highlights the important functions that we are asking this office to carry out for us. It reminded me of, again, the Integrity Commission, and what we found within recent times with the Integrity Commission, which is the body that is constitutionally and legislatively charged—it has the powers to investigate persons in public life and complaints made, et cetera. And when you look at their annual reports, every year they are talking about their resources and how difficult it is, how under-resourced they are, et cetera. [Interruption] You have it right there, thank you. When one looks at the amount of money that was allocated and the estimates over the period of 2008 to 2014, we see that they have always been in the range of $20 million, $30 million. The maximum they ever got was $30 million in 2009, which was under the PNM regime. This year they are $28 million. We hear them complaining about their lack of resources and their inability to successfully or quickly and expeditiously conduct investigations. Then when one compares that to the Office of the Attorney General which in the year 2010 to 2011, had an allocation of approximately $20 million to pay external counsel. We now know as history and on the record that from 2010 to 2011 the Office of Attorney General was then given $33 million for that purpose, but during that year a Supplementary Appropriation Bill, it was increased to $60 million, so that took it up to $93 million, and then in 2011 to 2012, the Attorney General was allocated approximately $108 million for the purposes of paying external counsel and other professionals to carry out a job and a duty that the Integrity Commission is constitutionally charged to do. 72 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. YOUNG] So that means for the financial years 2010—2012, the Ministry of the Attorney General was allocated in excess of $200 million to carry out and exercise what constitutionally and legislatively the Integrity Commission is charged with the responsibility for, and we have the Integrity Commission complaining year after year that it is under-resourced. I stick a pin there, and it is very important that the same fate does not fall on this office for public procurement. [Desk thumping] Clause 43 concerns me very, very much. Clause 43 is the powers given to investigation by the office, and the Regulator may authorize an officer of the office to do certain things, including to go into persons’ premises and remove their books and investigate their books, et cetera—[Interruption] correct, a search and seize power. And that is being provided at clause 43, without the necessity of first of all obtaining an order from a judicial officer. That, in my respectful opinion, is unacceptable and we should not approve the legislation in this current form. You need the protection, we all need the protection of having it necessary as part of the process that you go before a judicial officer, and as with everything else is provided now, you do it ex parte. But you have to fulfil the caution and convince a judicial officer, who is independent and objective, that it is necessary that you be allowed to go and search and seize. Again, the challenge proceedings, I saw that it was pulled or it mirrors very similarly the Singapore legislation. I think it is a good move, but again I caution that it is going to require a lot of resources. Then I thought: well what other legislation do we have in place that provides for these types of challenge proceedings? I thought of the Equal Opportunity Commission, the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Environmental Commission, just as three that we have, quasi-judicial bodies operating outside there. How often are they used, how often are they utilized, are they properly resourced? Here we are creating a next one, but we are talking about that we must be cautious and watch our purse strings and the Treasury. I just say that we have to be careful, if we go down this route that we provide for them to be adequately funded. Mr. President, I think I can leave the rest—sorry, before I do that, the teeth of this legislation is to be found in the Bill at clauses 59, 60 and 61, which is where we are now talking about the criminal charges for breaches of this legislation, and we can deal with that at the committee stage. So those are my general comments and observations and cautions about what I think is a necessary reform of the public procurement and disposal of public property assets. 73 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

I would just like to remind the population at this stage, with some very current examples, unlike what was suggested a short while ago going back to 1956, of why it is necessary for us to pass reform legislation dealing with expenditure of public funds. That draws the country’s attention, Mr. President, to something called the LifeSport Fund. When we think about this recent coming to the fore, and unfortunately neither of the two hon. Senators are here, the Minister of Finance and the Economy and the Minister of National Security. We the people of Trinidad and Tobago have had red flagged for us by the Minister of Finance and the Economy and the Minister of National Security the wastage and splurging, raping of the public Treasury by something called the LifeSport Fund. If I may, looking at an article by Miss Asha Javeed—[Interruption] Sen. Hadeed: I will like to draw your attention that the matter is being investigated at the present time and information for that would come out shortly. Sen. S. Young: Thank you very much. I am trying to understand the relevance of the interruption, but it is my friend Sen. Hadeed so I gave way. Hon. Senator: Nobody tell Anil that. Sen. S. Young: Trinidad Express newspaper, a young lady by the name of Asha Javeed, on May 24: “Griffith: LifeSport Fund financing criminals” The point here is that the hon. Minister of National Security is the source of concerns being raised: “In Part 4, the Sunday Express focuses on the funding from Life Sport and the relationship between the Carapo Muslims and crime, gangs and the Government. Rajaee Ali, through the Ministry of Sport’s LifeSport programme is getting about $1.5 million a month in profit and has raked in about $18 million in the last year, National Security Minister Gary Griffith has alleged.” That is not on the PNM side. That is someone on your side, pointing this out to us. [Interruption] Hon. Senator: We are investigating it. Sen. S. Young: This is May 24, 2014: “Minister Gary Griffith alleged that...”—there is the use of—“ghost names in the programme. Griffith said in each area, 30 of the 60 participants are ghosts.” 74 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. YOUNG] That is 50 per cent. This is the expenditure of public funds. It is these types of situations that procurement legislation is supposed to deal with. We then have the hon. Prime Minister calling for a LifeSport Programme probe, which is what Sen. Hadeed alluded to a short while ago. On the same day, May 24, 2014, Asha Javeed of the Trinidad Express newspaper tells us: “Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar announced yesterday that she has move the controversial LifeSport programme from the Ministry of Sport to the Ministry of National Security... To this end, she indicated her intention to instruct the Ministry of Finance to conduct a full audit into the programme and move the management of the programme to another ministry. To date, the Government has spent over $150 million...”—of the public’s funds—“on the programme, which the Ministry of Finance has discovered is riddled with irregularities.”[Interruption] Hon. Senator: Corruption! Corruption! Sen. Hadeed: What did the PS in the Ministry say? What did he say? Sen. S. Young: As my friend, Sen. Hadeed, has pointed out, I am going to tell you. What I have in my hand here is a memorandum from the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Finance and the Economy to the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Sport: “Attention: Mr. Ashwin Creed Dated: June 12, 2013” This is important. This is the Ministry of Finance and the Economy’s PS highlighting to the Ministry of Sport’s PS, in June of last year, concerns that he saw fit to put in black and white here, to form a record here of what is going on. And as my time is running out, I will just refer to some parts very briefly. Hon. Senator: You have time! You have time! Sen. S. Young: He starts off: “Reference is made to your memorandum dated May 8, 2013, requesting our approval in respect of the amended invoices for the mobilization fee, catering/meals and coordinating services, under the second drawing from the captioned facility.” 75 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

This is at the outset, the life of this LifeSport Programme, the genesis. Already the Ministry of Finance and the Economy is red flagging in June of last year. He went on to say what happened is that the Ministry of Sport sent invoices. The Ministry of Finance and the Economy wrote back to them and said, “Hold on, we have questions and queries in relation to these invoices,” and this is what the PS of the Ministry of Finance and the Economy is telling the PS of the Ministry of Sport in June 2013: “However, please note that we have reviewed the invoices submitted and have observed the following with respect to the amended invoices as compared to the original invoices submitted for payment: i) Differences with respect to the format and layout of invoices tendered by the same contractor which are dated one day apart; ii) Material differences with respect to the quoted amounts and the information on amended invoices; and. iii) Invoices were not certified by the Permanent Secretary. Given the above observations, it obviously appears that new invoices were generated for Life Sport Programme February expenses, when our intent was that you would certify the originals which were returned to you.” You have a PS telling another PS, “You are providing me with fraudulent invoices.” 3.30 p.m. “In addition, with respect to the Letters of Engagement between each Coordinator and the Ministry of Sport, we have observed a Mr. Hugh Grant executed the contracts for the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Sport for and on behalf of the Government of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago. The Ministry of Finance and the Economy wishes to remind you that the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Sport is the Ministry’s Accounting Officer and is the appropriate officer for executing such documents.” Who is Hugh Grant? Hon. Senator: What a shame. Sen. S. Young: “Further with respect to the Letter of Engagement between Mr. Rajaee Ali and the Ministry of Sport for the provision of services as a Community…”—leader, not leader—“Coordinator for the two (2) month 76 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. YOUNG] period commencing January 2, 2013, it should be noted that the letter bears the signature of Mr. Rajaee Ali as both the Permanent Secretary and the Community Coordinator. Please clarify.” Sen. Al-Rawi: Say that again. Sen. S. Young: “Furthermore, it should be noted…”—[Interruption] Hon. Senator: PS Ali. Sen. S. Young:—that PS Rajaee Ali—no, sorry. He is the community coordinator signed under both PS and community coordinator. Hon. Senator: Ohhhh. Sen. S. Young: “Furthermore, it should be noted that whilst we are unable to approve the payment…” so you now have the Ministry of Finance and the Economy saying, we are not approving the payment to the coordinators until contracts are properly executed. Mr. President, I thank you once again for the opportunity—[Interruption] Hon. Senator: Procurement. Sen. S. Young:—to make a contribution. And I would like to end and conclude on that basis of showing the people of Trinidad and Tobago a very current issue that has been highlighted to us by the Minister of Finance and the Economy and the Minister of National Security, and they have told us there is something running amiss here, and if we had proper procurement legislation that would be one end within which we could have gone and done something about it. Mr. President, Members of the Senate, thank you very much for permitting me the opportunity. [Desk thumping] Sen. Hugh Russell Ian Roach: Thank you, Mr. President, for allowing me the opportunity to participate. [Desk thumping] A debate, a Bill: “…to provide for the public procurement, and… disposal of public property, in accordance with the principles of good governance, namely accountability, transparency, integrity and value for money,…”—as well as—“…the establishment of the Office of Procurement Regulation, the repeal of the Central Tenders Board Act, Chap. 71:91 and related matters.” On the onset of my contribution I must say that this proposed piece of legislation is as important and necessary and critical to our democratic maturity, as is the proposed legislation dealing with campaign finance which is still awaiting its birth in the birth canal of Parliament in a seamless gestation period before it can be delivered into the laws of our country. 77 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Mr. President, having pursued this Bill, listened to fellow Senators’ contributions and considered a number of written submissions from stakeholders who I am sure may have expended a lot of time and resources in making their contributions to a Bill that is very much long in its coming, I am of the firm opinion that this Bill is a conscientious attempt by the Government of the day to do what is right and of significant importance [Desk thumping] to the people of this country. The Government’s good intentions do not stop there, however, it must be manifested in legislation that will secure the very objects proposed in this Bill, that is to say, “accountability, integrity, transparency and value for money”, and a truly independent procurement regulator. Mr. President, let me hasten to say as well, which I have often said outside the precincts of Parliament, that this country has enough laws enacted to cover almost every human activity from birth to death, and as such our challenge as a people and Parliament is not a continuous proliferation and passing of laws, but also more so in the observance and enforcement of the already existing laws of our beloved republic. Hon. Senator: Very true. Sen. HRI Roach: There is no life to law, no protection, no safeguards unless and until the people and institutions charged with the responsibility of enforcing these laws do so. The only reason for the promotion of this Bill is that there is a great need to redress the conspicuous rapaciousness that has existed for too long in a procurement and disposal of our public property by many involved. Laws are seldom prospective in nature, but rather prescriptive, that is, coming after the fact. In law, we use a canon of interpretation called the mischief rule, when one is trying to understand what exactly the mischief or wrong that the piece of legislation is seeking to remedy. Put in its proper context, the provisions of this Bill are really seeking to address the voluminous cries of corruption, nepotism, favouritism, insatiable greed and lack of transparency in State procurement and disposal of public property practices. So this proposed Bill may seem as a step in the right direction and for the right reasons. It is now left to us in Parliament to ensure collectively that the proposed legislation is one that can stand scrutiny and provide the protection that is required to safeguard the interests of citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, come what may, and regardless of who may be the incumbent and the custodians of the State’s purse and property. 78 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. ROACH] Having said that, Mr. President, it would be foolhardy of us to pretend that a perfect piece of legislation is ever possible coming out of the best efforts and deliberations after however long we commit ourselves to the task. Therefore, what we ought to earnestly endeavour to do with this Bill, is to give it our best efforts in deliberation and constructive debate in making it into law before it lapses once more. [Desk thumping] Sen. George: Good point. Sen. HRI Roach: We must consider that this Bill is one of urgent need following the reports of the Uff Commission and the Piarco commission to name just two in a long and continuing list of questionable deals in State procurement transactions to date. Lapses or shortcomings of the Bill identified by a number of Senators, with which I can associate myself are not what I consider to be fatal or beyond rectification at the committee stage of this debate. Some of the concerns that I have already mentioned to the hon. Dr. Tewarie, on the last occasion he said that we would give further consideration to same. Therefore, I will await to see what further amendments to the Bill are taken on board before or at the committee stage. However, amongst the other provisions of the Bill that I am particularly concerned with, for example, clause 62; clause 62 which deals with the very same concern which my fellow Senator, Sen. Stuart Young raised a while ago, with the regulations coming after the fact, for which an explanation was given. I did raise the concern that throughout most of the first provision of this proposed Bill, there is the use of the word “shall” which in law, we know, we say is commanding language—right—which takes away any discretion. And in clause 62, if you read clause 62 in its preamble, it talks about: “The Minister may, on the recommendation of the Office, make Regulations to give effect to the provisions of this Act, including regulations with respect to—”x, y, and z, inter alia. As Sen. Al-Rawi had stated in his rapturous contribution on the last occasion, there is significant use of the word “shall” which is compelling language. I would prefer to use the word “shall” instead of “may” in clause 62, especially since the regulations to give effect to the provisions of the Act are to be done subsequent to the Act coming into force. The use of the word “may” in clause 62 appears to dilute the independence of the regulator and restore some political influence by the Minister which is not what is desired in this new institution. 79 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Clause 11 deals with the tenure and the remuneration of members. My concerns are firstly, that I do not think a limit should be placed on the appointment of two consecutive terms, since the office of the regulator should be one where institutional capacity should be nurtured and encouraged. The holder of the officer ought be highly qualified and experienced which gives stability to the operations of the office. Secondly, I think it is very unwise and counter-productive to have salaries and allowances of the regulator and other members determined by the Salaries Review Commission. Hon. Senator: That is right. Desk thumping] Sen. HRI Roach: With all due respect to this body, this body seems to not be in sync with the realities of today’s market forces—[Desk thumping] Sen. Al-Rawi: Hear! Hear! Sen. HRI Roach:—in correlating with responsibilities and demands with the appropriate remuneration package to not only attract the best, but to keep the best when available. Without any reservations whatsoever, I do agree with the Senators who said that there is an outdated and backward belief that public servants should be less rewarded than workers in the private sector. [Desk thumping] That is unfortunate and I think it is outdated, and ought to be immediately remedied by public education. Most times we get what we pay for. It is high time we pay public servants and persons in public service quality salaries, after which we can justifiably hold them to high standards of accountability. You cannot be paying the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition, the Chief Justice, the Permanent Secretaries and other highly responsible public servants insultingly low levels of remuneration and expect the best in every aspect of this public service. Only when we as a people are able to appreciate that competitive salary packages will certainly help to attract the very best to the public service, just as attractive remuneration packages attract the very best to the private sector which helps them derive high levels of productivity and success, will the people of this country be able to get value for money. I therefore suggest that clause 11 be revisited and replaced with a market-driven provision that will ensure that the regulator is one, if not the very best, available in the market. Mr. President, I will also like to suggest provisions be made in this proposed legislation for the procurement regulator to have retroactive powers, to revisit any procurement transactions that took place in the past 10 years, with a view to re- examining the procedures used for and the integrity of same on the basis of laws 80 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. ROACH] that existed at that time. Such a power would be lawful and enforceable as it would not seek to create any new legal standards on past transactions, but simply allow the examination of past procurement transactions, as against the then existing laws to see if they were in compliance. Should there have been non-compliance or transgressions of the then existing laws, the regulator would be able to deal with same as he deemed fit, and may take such actions to recover any expenditure misappropriated, and also to create a negative list of transgressors which may remain valid for a specific period of time, where anyone on this list will not be allowed to participate in any future government procurement opportunities. There is a presumption in law against passing retrospective law, unless it is clearly spelt out and does not impose a new standard of conduct on the past conduct. So the language to be used must satisfy these conditions or prerequisite to be enforceable. A provision of this nature can only help to restore confidence in the Government’s commitment to address the many public claims of corruption in public procurement transactions which has been significant over the past 10 years, at least. It would be a kind of reversal of the now infamous section 34 which seems to continue to haunt this administration, Parliament, and ironically in some small way, appease the high level of disappointment and disquiet the public continues to feel under this debacle. So instead of providing a possible safe haven for transgressors, this provision may instead accomplish quite the opposite, holding the transgressors accountable rather than pardoning. Therefore, I invite the hon. Minister and all Members of Parliament to give this suggestion serious consideration. As regards clause 10, why is it only the case of the regulator and the attorney-at- law that there are qualifications of 10 and five years, respectively? I suggest that all members of the procurement board should have a minimum of 10 years of experience in their respective fields or areas of expertise, with the exception of the member who represents the community interests. Again, this level of experience underscores the need for realistic, competitive remuneration driven by open market forces. As most people would know in professional fields, somebody with five years of experience basically is still relatively green. Not until one reaches, in the instance of law, 10 years, you are now considered to be sufficiently experienced in the law to probably assume high office as a judge. You know, you need about five years’ experience to be a magistrate. So the higher up you go, you know. So I think the regulator, as an independent and serious public official charged with such an onerous and significant responsibility, ought to have 10 years’ experience in whatever area of endeavour he may be. 81 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

3.45 p.m. I think the members of his board should also be similarly qualified in the circumstances. I also agree with, I think, the suggestion made by Sen. Al-Rawi on the last occasion that instead of having a maximum number of seven, I think eight, you should have a minimum of eight so as to cater for continuity or development or areas that may need to be addressed as the board performs its function and experience is gained. I think it is something to take on board. What are the critical components of any procurement legislation? Government procurement legislation normally covers all public works, services and contracts entered into by a public authority. There are exceptions, for example, the military acquisition. Procurement law does not apply where public tendering would violate the country’s essential security services; emergencies and health supplies may be treated differently as well. The nature of procurement is that it involves a discretionary decision of Government at all levels. It would be very informative if we can find out what procurement spending is as a percentage of our GDP. What is it in terms of Government total spending? Since procurement touches on very significant projects such as infrastructure, health, education, transportation and water, to name a few, it is open to obvious excesses and abuse and can undermine the returns on high-level expenditure. That is, value for money. Procurement you can see has a huge impact on a country’s economic and sustainable development as was hinted to by Dr. Tewarie when he introduced the Bill. It is not a piece of legislation to be taken lightly, therefore, every procurement legislation must ensure primarily value for money and avoid abuses. Procurement law must also provide for modern commercial and transactional facilities, such as e-commerce or e-procurement. It must also provide for standard procurement, urgent or emergency procurements, simple and low-value procurement and major complex procurement. It should also ensure that all procedures adopted are subject to rigorous transparency mechanisms and requirements that will promote competition on the basis of objectivity and that all decisions and actions taken in the procurement process can be challenged by the potential suppliers of goods and services. The procurement legislation must subject the Government’s discretion to purchase through safeguards that are consistent with international best practice and standards, specifically those imposed by United Nations Convention Against Corruption. The United Nations Commission on International Trade Law (UNCITRAL) Model Law on Public Procurement, 2011 allows the enacting State to pursue its domestic policy objectives such as promoting economic development 82 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. ROACH] through support of SMEs—that is small and medium enterprises—to the extent that the Government’s international commitments are met or permit. The model law has also been prepared with a view to supporting the harmonization of international standards in public procurement, and takes account of the provisions of the World Trade Agreement on Government Procurement. the European Union Directives (on procurement and remedies), the UN Convention Against Corruption, the Procurement Guidelines of the World Bank and the equivalent documents of other International Financial Institutions. The model law is aimed at assisting in formulating a modern procurement law that reflects international best practice and is designed to be appropriate for all states. I was fortunate enough in my research on procurement law to come across the very same law that I am now speaking about, the United Nations Commission on International Trade Law, which, I believe was passed by the Assembly Resolution 66/95 on December 09, 2011. This procurement legislation is a text which I want to believe that the LRC should, if not, have had a review of it. I do not know if the Minister is familiar with it. It is a very comprehensive and very modernized model piece of procurement legislation, passed by the United Nations in order to facilitate a sort of a harmonization and standardized type of procurement legislation across the board, whether it is a developing state or a small state. Sen. Dr. Tewarie: If that is the 2011 UNCITRAL model law from the UN— [Interruption] Sen. HRI Roach: Yes, it is from the UN. Sen. Dr. Tewarie:—it, in fact, provided the model on which this was based. Sen. HRI Roach: Very good to hear. Because this model piece of legislation is very, very comprehensive and it covers a number of concerns that when one has gone through our Bill that seemed to have been taken, and it is even broader. It is much more encompassing in terms of its definition. It has a very wide net in taking care of a number of concerns raised here during this debate. On that leg, Mr. President, I would like to say that it is a Bill that I believe that is long overdue; it is a Bill that I believe that should be supported; it is a Bill that I would like to support; it is a Bill that I believe that needs to be tweaked, and certainly what has been identified as shortcomings are not shortcomings that cannot be dealt with competently at the committee stage [Desk thumping] and in so doing, I look forward to participating in the committee stage of this Bill in trying to bring it forth to form part of a necessary compilation of law that would certainly help to secure and address a lot of the concerns that the public is crying out about in terms of our integrity in public life. 83 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

It is as important as I said earlier on in my opening statement, that it is important just as much as campaign finance. These go to the heart of the public unease in terms of how your elected members make decisions and they are to make decisions in an objective way, and that people believe through legislation being passed that there will be objectivity and an equal playing ground where people could fairly compete for provision of goods and services as the Government and any government and most governments and our Government in particular, is the largest employer and certainly has the largest demand for goods and services, and therefore in a very multi-cultural society like ours, in a society now that is growing very uneasy with a lot of rumblings of discrimination in one way or the other, I think this legislation is one that is needed urgently. It is very important but it is also needed very urgently. With that, Mr. President, I thank you for the opportunity. [Desk thumping] Sen. Ashaki Scott: [Desk thumping] Good afternoon, Mr. President, and Members of the Senate. It gives me immense pleasure to be here today and I must thank my colleagues and the hon. Prime Minister and MP for Siparia as well as the hon. Minister of Legal Affairs and MP for St. Augustine for having the confidence in a young person like me to contribute in this august Senate. [Desk thumping] The People’s Partnership Government remains committed to the promises laid out in our manifesto and I must add that I was also a member of the manifesto committee in 2010 [Desk thumping] that contributed to this piece of legislation in our manifesto. So, it gives me great pleasure to support the Public Procurement and the Disposal of Public Property Bill, 2014. The Congress of the People, since 2006 advocated for the implementation of procurement legislation and therefore it again gives me great pleasure to be here to contribute. Mr. President, Trinidad and Tobago must establish a reputation for a best practice approach to business. The perception of corruption under the PNM served as a deterrent to foreign firms and local firms alike to do business with the Government. The best practice approach augers well for good governance and also economic stimulus by setting benchmarks for procurement. The nation has been calling for public procurement policy for ages. Public procurement is a key issue facing our nation for many years. Passing this Bill is therefore at the core of saving our failing institutions that were neglected by the previous administration. Mr. President, our globalized world seems to turn in turmoil because of the constant series of crisis. Just last week the army took power in Thailand and democracy was put on hold. Also, just last week was a summit meeting in France 84 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SCOTT] between African presidents, and this last weekend a similar summit was held in South Africa. In both instances, to develop strategies to support democracy in the face of threats from fundamentalists. In the Caribbean, violence increases and in all cases corruption is a major contributor. I must say that good governance, transparency and single-minded support for implementing laws and regulations to prevent or punish corruption are essential in sustaining democracy. [Desk thumping] This Bill is a major remedy to the proliferation of corruption, the Trinidad and Tobago version of the disease which has plagued us since Independence, long before I was born. [Interruption] Our regional counterparts often say that we in Trinidad and Tobago have a culture of “smartmanism”, meaning that we are always into underhand dealings. We must change this perception. We must change this perceived culture which has been plaguing our institutions for far too long. We must tie procurement policy to ethics in corporate governance. Many years, again, before I was born or possibly when I was a little girl, you would recall as Sen. Hadeed spoke earlier about the Lock Joint issue, even the gas station racket for which Gene Miles paid with her life. I can go on and on about these issues under previous administrations. Let us not forget the secret scholarship slush fund under the previous administration. This Bill is a big block on the career path of those who have used the lack of procurement procedures to extract millions in unearned rents or call it corrupt profits from the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago. This debate is an opportunity to better understand how leaders, managers and those who deliver services to our people can anchor their work on a strong set of ethical values. Mr. President, this applies to the public and private sector but starts with all of us here as individuals and citizens of Trinidad and Tobago. [Desk thumping] Corruption today, all over the world, continues to take a great toll on our societies, and threatens to exacerbate wider challenges that our societies face such as poverty, inequality of opportunity, environmental issues in the delivery of goods and services. These contribute to poverty and mortality. Corruption strikes particularly hard at the most vulnerable in our societies exacerbating poverty and ultimately taking lives. In essence, corruption kills. Corruption reduces access to essential goods and services and also a means to an honest living. In July 2013, our global corruption barometer which covered 114,000 people in 107 countries exposed the scale of this disease. One person in four around the world pays bribes to access public services. In some countries, it is three in four. 85 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

4.00 p.m. Mr. President, in the poorest and least stable countries, the problem is of pandemic proportion. This is why it is important to note, that the Bill will provide for the establishment of an office of procurement regulation to act as a governing body. The Bill also provides for the decentralisation of certain decision-making powers to local government. In addition, our commitment to freedom of the press, the work of the Integrity Commission, the proposals for adequate whistle-blower legislation, will complement the provisions of the Bill to ensure that global best practice measures are implemented here in Trinidad and Tobago. [Desk thumping] I must say, that we are now at the threshold of a new dawn in our nation; a new dawn to our road to recovery, through integrity, transparency, justice and good governance. Mr. President, I want to thank you again, and my colleagues and the entire Senate for allowing me to contribute on this Bill this evening. Thank you. [Desk thumping] Mr. President: Before we proceed further, I would like to take the opportunity to congratulate Sen. Ashaki Scott on her maiden contribution. [Desk thumping] Sen. Diane Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Thank you very much, Mr. President. And I too would like to join in wishing Sen. Scott all the best for a very positive contribution to the Senate today. Mr. President, once again thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. My esteemed colleagues on this Bench have walked, have handled the economics and the legal aspects of the Bill, and I wish to walk the path of the people of Trinidad and Tobago. The many unanswered questions on procurement practices in the last four years, the over $300 billion spent in governance, questions arise regarding value for money, transparency, equity and accountability, and now, reasons for no regulations; no regulations in the Bill. Mr. President, the PNM is a responsible party and we answer to the people, we must protect the people. [Desk thumping] The Government’s draft Bill is inflexible and inadequate to deal with the severe challenges of controlling the widespread public procurement, corruption and waste, now rampant in our country. A new poorly drafted law which is inadequate will only worsen this very serious situation by raising expectations, yet doing little, if anything, to stop the rot. We are asked today, to consider this Bill, as the Minister said on the last occasion, which needs a special majority, 86 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. BALDEO-CHADEESINGH] three-fifths majority. It impacts on the rights of the citizens, protected in sections 4 and 5 of the Constitution of Trinidad and Tobago. This Bill is therefore drafted in the best interest of the society, hence, its importance. We are told, this Bill has considered all the questions raised by stakeholders and we are assured that in undertaking procurement the Government will offer finally, transparency, equity, fairness, value for money of the citizens in the best interest of best practice of government and governance. Mr. President, given the rough ride by the Government along a pebbly path to the Bill today, in the twilight of the term of office, would stakeholders and citizens trust and embrace this legislation? Public pressure for procurement legislation before the five-year end-of-term is the real reason for this Bill. Minister Hadeed, Minister Tewarie and Minister Ramnarine, all three, went down a historical path, and I too wish to go down that path. Young democracies such as ours, are challenged to create and expand the country’s physical infrastructure. Young democracies must also provide their citizenry with health services, education, security and a functioning public service. At the same time, Mr. President, they must manage the economic resources for optimum growth and productivity. Young democracies can ill-afford the leakages caused by corruption that loots their treasuries and deprives their citizens. The creation of physical infrastructure in emerging countries necessitates that the public sector procures large construction contracts. The lack of availability of the requisite technology and expertise locally, compels these governments to source these contracts. These countries engage large transitional or trans-national construction conglomerates that have acquired a proven track record of competence, experience and success in these large projects as partners. Mr. President, the onset of the construction of large-scale projects in Trinidad coincided with the Declaration of Independence in the nation in 1962. It must be noted that the Act was a major decision of the PNM Government [Desk thumping] which took over the reins of government in 1956 and independence in 1962. And I am very pleased that Senators on the opposite side were going down this historical path, because it is true that the history of the PNM is very interesting. This CTB Act, 1961, Mr. President, occurred shortly after the advent of the Government of the People’s National Movement under the leadership of Dr. Eric Williams, who became the first Prime Minister of the nation. Dr. Williams professed a strong aversion to corruption that was very attractive to a multiracial population that came out of a slave society. Dr. Williams, a brilliant historian, knew and recognized that during the colonial period the citizens’ creativity had been suppressed and their culture marginalized under the restraint of colonialism. 87 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Mr. President, the acquisition of independence brought with it new energy for the development of the region. The start of the second five-year development plan, in the early 60’s, that envisaged the construction of large-scale housing projects was accompanied by the need for proper regularisation of procurement practices. The State responded at that time with the passage of the Central Tenders Board Act in 1961. That gave, Mr. President, the absolute right of procurement for the State and designated statutory bodies to the Central Tenders Board, a statutory entity created by the Central Tenders Board Act, and this statute came into effect on January 01, 1965. Mr. President, the complete overhaul of our country’s public procurement system is urgently required, given the daily reports of large-scale theft and waste of public money. The last PNM administration responsibly undertook the Uff Enquiry into the public sector construction industry, and recommendations in the report have been ignored by the UNC/PP Government. [Desk thumping] The JCC met in April 2010 with the leadership of the People’s Partnership at its request and with the media in attendance. It is important to remind the State, the Senate, that partnerships with stakeholders like the JCC, (the Joint Consultative Council) are very important to the PNM. And they, along with the Chambers of Commerce, the TTMA are all in one voice, concerned about the ongoing corruption and poor performance in the last four years. The Joint Consultative Council for construction has been in existence for 32 years. It was formed when regulated organizations in the construction sector came together to scrutinize and assess the prevailing industry conditions. The JCC made recommendations and undertook improvements for the benefit of all stakeholders. As such, the JCC is and also has been an agent of positive change for the nation, and part of their approach has been to operate as both watchdog and coordinator for the construction industry. Mr. President, Minister Hadeed in his contribution a while back, spoke about support from the civil society groups. But I wish to draw to the attention of the Minister, their total disregard for the private sector. The PSCS, the Private Sector/Civil Society group submitted its own draft Bill to the Joint Select Committee in December 2010. It was also published on the JCC’s website, and that draft was derived from the two draft Bills tabled by Minister Dookeran. The PSCS also conformed to the proposals in the 2005 White Paper, recommendations from the Uff Report and international best practice. At no time has there been any public criticism or response from the administration. Utter disregard. 88 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. BALDEO-CHADEESINGH] The Prime Minister stated at the close of the budget debate on October 10, 2012, on page 237 of Hansard, and I quote: ‘“…Mr. Speaker, we propose to send before the Legislative Review Committee, the report of the joint select committee and, in addition, this document. This document has been prepared by the Joint Consultative Council for the construction industry; the Trinidad and Tobago Transparency Institute; the Trinidad and Tobago Chamber of Industry and Commerce; and the Trinidad and Tobago Manufacturers Association. This document is a draft Bill, 2012— ‘Draft Public Procurement and Disposal of Public Property Bill, 2012’, which will be sent to the LRC for consideration for the laying of a Bill in Parliament for procurement.’” End of quote, Mr. President. The Minister of Planning and Sustainable Development, Dr. Tewarie was also the chairman of the JSC when it presented its report to Parliament. In Minister Tewarie’s letter of October 28, 2013, to the PSCS group, it states, and I quote: “…All submissions, written and oral, from interested parties would have been taken into account by the Joint Select Committee in arriving at its consensus and this includes submissions from the Private Sector/Civil Society group. The recommendations of that Joint Select Committee were unanimously accepted by Parliament after full debate.” Mr. President, given that the PNM abstained from voting at both the JSC and in subsequent parliamentary debate on a matter of policy, Minister Tewarie’s claims for consensus and unanimous acceptance are false. I quote directly from the JCC press release. This is yet another turn and twist in the UNC path for procurement legislation. Ambassador Reginald Dumas’ recent article in the media also opposes this Bill. The story was updated on April 29. And in part two of that article, Winston Riley says, one of the major associates in the JCC who has been working for a resolution of the waffling of the UNC Government, wrote to the Minister of Planning and Sustainable Development. And I quote from the article, Mr. President: “Riley having replied to Tewarie, the latter now replied to Riley’s reply. It was getting a bit incestuous, but the serial responses were at least helping us to see the differences between the two sides. 89 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Or so we thought, because Tewarie (who at this juncture was referring to Riley’s Private Sector/Civil Society Group (PSCSG) and not to Afra Raymond’s Joint Consultative Council (JCC), which had claimed his earlier attention)…” Mr. President, Minister Tewarie then executed a back flip. He said, and I quote:

“ʻWe’ (that is, the government and the PSCSG) ‘are on the same page as far as making it difficult for corruption to take place in the realm of public procurement is concerned.’ That must be a most extraordinary page, seeing that the day before, in answer to Tewarie’s previous assertion that the Public Procurement Bill was ‘very clear (and) very focused’ and corruption-unfriendly, Riley had dismissed the Bill as in fact facilitating corruption and as ‘a waste of time’.’” 4.15 p.m. The Minister of Planning and Sustainable Development has identified three issues—or had identified three issues—in the Bill on the last occasion. In his presentation he said, one: allegations and accusations of corruption to be investigated and resolved; two, resolve the issues of procurement as development; and three, evolve an ethical framework under which we wish to live. Mr. President, the Bill establishes a new institution with rules to stop corruption in procurement practices. Such an institution does not exist in this country today. It will be a new institution in the country. The Bill establishes an independent national agency whose primary responsibility it is to have oversight to such rules, to investigate and to enforce the terms and conditions in the Bill. It is hoped that this institution will strengthen the institutional framework for good governance in this country and we are very proud—we, on this Bench, very proud—to be aligned with this effort. We must be very realistic and examine aspects of this Bill. Will it deliver all that the Minister claims? The Bill should contain a comprehensive mandate where all types of procurement will be included collaboratively. Every single state-controlled institution, with no exceptions, including government-to-government arrangements; engagement that we have had with civil sector, and private sector organizations, are all subject to this Bill. Thirdly, that there is representation of the private sector and civil society in the governance of the management of the procurement process nationally. 90 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. BALDEO-CHADEESINGH] The Government will not be involved in the management of the board, thus independence from interference will be achieved—we hope. The Bill suggests— clause 11(8) regarding the SRC. My colleague on this bench, Sen. Faris Al-Rawi, also spoke to this a short while ago in his contribution, and Sen. Roach and Sen. Young as well. The Bill suggests the SRC to determine the remuneration of the board. The issue is professionals cannot be subjected to the scale of the SRC. The SRC—it is my opinion—should not fix the remuneration, but there should be market rates for payments to board members. You see, Mr. President, in that way it reduces the risk of indelicate propositions being made to underpaid board members. Sen. G. Singh: I like the phrase. Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: But the discounted service—he likes the phrase—image will have a negative impact on the board. What is suggested also is a hybrid system with a centralized, as well as a decentralized element. This, it is suggested, would be more practical to suit the needs of the many public body institutions and agencies. The needs of national security, for instance, tourism or health, culture, education, they all vary. So there is the need for a system to have some degree of flexibility in the procurement process, and yet stakeholders must operate within specific rules. They must comply with regulations and be subjected to the scrutiny of an independent procurement regulator. So how can this hybrid system work? Its success depends on the extent to which this legislation truly empowers the regulator, and it also depends on the extent to which there are wholesome, ethical practices within procuring entities. You see, if I recall, on the last occasion, the mover of this Bill spoke about ethics. Ethics cannot be legislated, Mr. President. The environment of business must offer ethical business practices. [Interruption] Yes, I believe that. The PNM believes that, [Desk thumping] and today many questionable procurement practices of the Government defended, “it’s not legal”or “no law was broken”, but the nation must revisit moral and spiritual principles as part of development and realigning our nation. [Desk thumping] Laws do not deliver ethics to a society. I notice every time I speak about the PNM, Members on the opposite side get excited, and that is a good thing. [Crosstalk] Mr. President, the Bill requires a three-fifths majority vote. The Bill contravenes the Constitution, sections 4 and 5 enshrined rights. It impacts on the right to property; the right to equality of treatment; the right to fairness of procedure and the right to avoid self-incrimination. 91 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Regulations for the Bill have not been developed. I am quite concerned that the Bill would have come to be debated today without regulations. The Minister gave an explanation of that earlier, but I am not quite sure I buy into that. The commitment of the Government was this Bill should be accompanied by regulations. The Bill refers over 30 instances of regulations. Did the Government expect a robust debate? Did they really want a serious debate knowing that there are no regulations before us? I am not sure the Government is serious in proceeding with this Bill because it must be the sign of their campaign: “procurement legislation, we delivered”. [Desk thumping] Mr. President, this Bill is supposed to be, in terms of policy, a choice of framework legislation as opposed to prescriptive legislation, and my colleague, Sen. Al-Rawi, shared with us the difference between the two, framework legislative and prescriptive legislative frameworks on the last occasion. Just to reiterate—and I quote from the Senator’s contribution. He said: “…framework legislation results in a desiccated few number of sections Bill, which speak to setting up the parameters of a law to operate, but it does not descend into the nitty-gritty details of how the thing is supposed to work, in terms of what ought to be considered by way of matters involving public procurement. In this case specifically instead those going to regulations and rules. So the heart and soul of this thing has to be contemplated in the context of regulations. Now the three-fifths majority issue, the hon. Minister sought to tell us during the course of his presentation, that there is nothing draconian in this Bill. This is good law. The People’s Partnership has met its manifesto promise.” Mr. President, the Opposition is committed to procurement legislation—the Opposition is. In the midst of seeking to work on procurement laws, the Government was breaching every form of public procurement rules in Trinidad and Tobago. Now, the Minister speaks of ethical standards and how the Bill will ensure how the environment of business will change. But this Government says that they are dealing with ethical standards in the Bill and things that are out in the public domain—to date, the Minister of Energy and Energy Affairs has not explained why the Government taxpayers’ dollars bought equipment used by a private contractor, National Quarries Limited. [Desk thumping] What really happened? 92 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Al-Rawi: Gopaul & Company. Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: What are the procurement procedures in National Quarries Limited by Gopaul’s company, Roldan Construction Company Limited, which took over equipment right out of National Quarries Limited? [Crosstalk] I will tell you where I got that information. It is from the Trinidad and Tobago Express newspaper. It is titled: “Double Deal”. That is the headline of this story: “Double Deal Mystery at National Quarries over how $2m order for excavator ended up with a tractor in the bag” Mr. President, this story was written by Asha Javeed and it was created on October 05, 2013. Just to quote one or two bits and pieces out of this particular article: “Usually such a two-for-the-price-of-one arrangement is a steal of a deal, except the company did not benefit from any bargain. One piece of equipment—an excavator—went to NQ while the other—a crawler dozer—went to a worksite for Gopaul & Company.”[Desk thumping and interruption]. Sen. Al-Rawi: Shame! Shame! Never denied. Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: And never denied. Mr. President, I further quote another statement from that particular article, the dozer and Gopaul and Company: “The dozer—[Interruption] Sen. Al-Rawi: “Take two pull. Do geh excited.”[Laughter] Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: “The dozer was put to use by Gopaul & Company after it won a tender from SWMCOL for operatorship of equipment at the Beetham Landfill site for the period 2013-2016.” Hon. Senator: Shame! Shame! Shame! Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Oh my, Mr. President. Sen. Al-Rawi: Sen. Hadeed “eh talk bout dat.” Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Sen. Hadeed did not speak to that. 93 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Al-Rawi: “He talkin bout Lock Joint.”[Crosstalk] Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Mr. President, also in this article: “Following a series of investigative reports into NQ and enquiries into the acquisition and location of equipment, the Sunday Express understands that the dozer was moved from Gopaul’s yard to work at Scott’s Quarry two weeks ago.” Hon. Senator: What! Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: “Ramkhelawan confirmed both pieces of equipment are now in NQ’s possession, but did not want to detail to the Sunday Express how NQ could now lay claim to the dozer when there was no official documentation of its acquisition.”—in the first place. Mr. President, from “Double Deal”. Hon. Senator: Explain that! Sen. Al-Rawi: “Remind dem Gopaul is de guesthouse man.” Hon. Senator: That is corruption. Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Mr. President, then there is the issue of Invaders’ Bay. The Ministry of Planning and Sustainable Development has not resolved that. Government is now in court to explain the tender procedures in Trinidad and Tobago in relation to the unlawful procurement of state lands in the Invaders Bay project. Mr. President, further: There is an application for judicial review in court to find out what really happened there. But it does not stop there, Mr. President. Mr. President: Senator, by your own comment, the matter is sub judice. I do not think you will be permitted to continue on that path. [Crosstalk] Sen. Dr. Tewarie: And Sen. Al-Rawi knows that....knowing full well that I cannot reply on it. [Crosstalk] Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: I was not getting into details, Mr. President. I was just— Mr. President: Senator, you will not be able to refer to the matter. Just continue. Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Yes, Mr. President. Thank you. I am not going into details, Mr. President, but I am just referring to the fact that this is out in the public domain—[Interruption] 94 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Al-Rawi: That is right. Sen. Hadeed: Well, my own was out in the public domain. Sen. Dr. Henry: And everybody ran. Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Everybody ran from that. [Crosstalk] Out in the domain as well, Mr. President, is the fact that the Minister of National Security knows that the procurement exercises in national security also had to be halted. Out in the public domain as well, the Attorney General knows that the NP contract had to be halted. Out in the public domain as well, Sen. The Hon. Vasant Bharath is on record in the public domain as saying that the OAS highway project was badly procured and that the IDB cannot lend us money. [Desk thumping] Sen. Al-Rawi: “Sen. Hadeed eh talk bout dat.” Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: No, Sen. Hadeed did not speak to that. He forgot. Sen. Al-Rawi: “He talkin bout roll joint scandal”— Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: He forgot. Sen. Hadeed: “Fifty six years ah corruption, I dealing with dat.” Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Mr. President, there are further challenges in the Bill. No regulations, first of all. I state that again because it is very important. That is why I will say it, and say it, and say it again. No details for operations; no details for management of human resources at the board level—[Interruption] Mr. President: Senator, I will have to allow you to catalogue that when we return. It is now 4.30, so I intend to suspend this House for tea until 5.00 p.m. when we will resume here. This House stands suspended until 5.00 p.m. 4.30 p.m.: Sitting suspended. 5.00 p.m.: Sitting resumed. Mr. President: Before we broke for the tea and the Senate was suspended, Sen. Baldeo-Chadeesingh was on her feet and by my calculations, Senator, you have another 16 minutes of original speaking time. 95 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Thank you very much, Mr. President. Just at the point we were going to break I was talking about the framework and I was outlining some of the major challenges in the Bill and, of course, I already spoke to the point of no regulations, no details for operation, no details for management of human resources at the board level, no fiscal regulations for effective staffing and liberal tax exemptions for management while Parliament is denied such exemptions. Mr. President, regarding the clauses, the definition of “public procurement” in clause 4, public procurement as described here is pretty narrow and it excludes disposal of public property. It does not deal with disposal of public property. Public procurement is defined in the Act as: “‘procurement’ or ‘public procurement’ means the acquisition of goods, works or services involving the use of public money.” It really does not treat or deal with disposal. The new office of procurement regulator proposes a new entity, and this new entity is the regulator himself. He is supplemented by the operations by way of an amendment to clause 10 as is proposed by the Minister. Seven people to assist him, he being the eighth including an attorney, an accountant, somebody in finance, business management and civil engineering. Mr. President, in doing my research, I looked at what the Canadian system was doing and I looked at what the Australian system was doing, and in their document regarding appointment of members—this is the Australian document in terms of the experience and skills of their board—they say that the: “Board”—is a body corporate and its—“members bring a mix of private and public sector expertise which assist public sector procurement. The Act requires that”—the—“Board members together have a practical knowledge of and experience in: • procurement; • private commerce or industry; • industry development; • industrial relations; • information technology; • risk management; 96 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. BALDEO-CHADEESINGH] • environmental protection and management; • community service; and • social inclusion. Apart from the”—chairperson in the Australian context—“the Governor in”— the—“Executive Council appoints”—the—“Board members for a period of up to two years.” But the point I wish to make there and why I read that from the Australian system, Mr. President, is to show if you have one training skill set then that might pose in itself a problem, because I think general competent people are necessary in such an institution in this scenario. Mr. President, trust is not easy, law must be precise. The goals are effective independence of both regulators and grievance resolution, value for money linked to performance, efficient use of public money, and participation of civil society to maintain the integrity of the procurement system. But on a matter of utmost public importance, any government must engage honestly in public consultation. Public procurement reform is far too important to our nation’s development for the usual secrecy and dishonesty to prevail. Mr. President, in conclusion, bad law, loss of our rights, no even-handed regulations—our nation needs quality governance and responsible governance, and this Bill in its present state will not achieve the goals outlined. Thank you very much, Mr. President. [Desk thumping] Sen. Elton Prescott SC: Thank you very much, Mr. President. Thank you very much for this opportunity to contribute to the Bill, “An Act to provide for public procurement, and for the retention and disposal of public property…the repeal of the Central Tenders Board Act…”—among other things—“and related matters.” Mr. President, the views I am hearing around us suggest that we may not go into committee stage today and in any event that would be a fairly long process, so that I should contract much of what I have to say and reserve the fire for the committee stage. But there are aspects of this Bill which have caught my attention and which I think I ought to put on the record, so that when the Minister who is responsible for this Bill has come around to doing his reply he might want to address those things, and maybe others who come after me might themselves have a view on whether this is the way to go or not. So I should make some references to aspects of the Bill where the provisions that are pertinent are made and put my observations on the record. 97 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

So the first of these has to deal with the office of the procurement regulator and that is to be found in clause 10 of the Bill. Clause 10 provides that: “(1) The Office shall be managed by a Board which shall be appointed by the President after consultation with the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition”—and it shall be led by— “(a) the Procurement Regulator... who shall be”—its—“Chairman.” The academic qualifications and the experience required are set out in clause 10(1)(a). The regulator, however, it seems to me, if he is to have the kind of independence that is being touted for his position, ought to have come to his position via another means, and I should like to suggest that it should be by way of a recommendation of a parliamentary committee established especially to deal with matters pertaining to procurement. I anticipate that there may be practical difficulties in bringing about parliamentary committees from any other place but from within the Parliament itself, but it is something that is worth considering, in my view, that the hallmark of independence in today’s politics in Trinidad and Tobago, would be to have appointed the procurement regulator on the basis of a recommendation by a parliamentary committee, that he should come before such a committee, and such a committee will then make its recommendation to the President, and it is from there that the President might embark upon his consultations with the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition. In short, the President should not go into it blind or without the benefit of some serious consideration by the parliamentarians. He should not be simply calling out to the Prime Minister or the Leader of the Opposition and say, “I am about to appoint a procurator general, what do you have to say?” Sen. Al-Rawi: Procurement regulator. Sen. E. Prescott SC: Procurement regulator. Sen. G. Singh: Just for my own clarity, would the President be encumbered by this particular recommendation, or will he be free to choose outside of that in terms of your recommendation? Sen. E. Prescott SC: Actually on very quick reflection, you having raised the point, he ought not to be encumbered, but he ought to be required to seek the recommendations of the Parliament to give him some material to place before those with whom he has to consult by law. I trust that you will find that is worthy of further consideration, Minister. 98 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. PRESCOTT SC] Perhaps, I should dilate on it a bit. What I am urging is that, I imagine that a President who is required by law to consult with the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition, either goes with tabula rasa, he has no names and he says, “Well, I am about to make a nomination I am required to do by law, what do you think?” I imagine, I have never functioned in any of those offices, and I imagine a Prime Minister who is alert, as they generally are, would have a long list and a great weight in his recommendations. I imagine a Leader of the Opposition might himself think that he has a long list and great weight, and then presumably the President will opt for one of those suggestions, or, as some Presidents have been known to do, act on his own view of the recommendations made. But if, to the contrary, the President had had the recommendations coming out of the parliamentary committee, the chances are that he might be able to throw out a name that neither the Prime Minister nor the Leader of the Opposition had thought of, and the chances are, more importantly, that the President would know that he has powers that he can use and that includes the power to say, “Thank you very much for your consultative efforts. I will go with Mrs. John who had been recommended by the parliamentary committee.” It is not that novel, but it might require some cogitation. As I am on it, may I just say that in clause 10, one of the offices recommended for membership, is an attorney-at-law of five years’ experience. I am sure that I have heard it here before, but I would like to add my piece to it. I would much prefer that we went for an attorney who has had 10 years standing at the Bar, and I think I did mention this to the Minister, it would be essential that the views of the Law Association of Trinidad and Tobago on the nominee be sought prior to approaching him or her. There is every opportunity for an attorney to find himself on a board of this nature who may well not have the kind of credit among his colleagues that will recommend him for that position. The same goes for those other professionals. I think professional bodies should be given that regard, that they should be called upon to comment on the verities of the candidates when the time should arise. If there are disciplinary or other failings, one ought to take those into account. Mr. President, while I am on it, I would like to suggest further that the board—I think that is what it is called, the office—should be subject to oversight by the Public Accounts Committee. Once again, I am thinking that its independence could be compromised if its only link with the politics, would be via a Minister. The Public Accounts Committee had been established to make the kind of enquiry that may result in the board and/or the—what is it called? The procurator general? Sen. Vieira: Office. 99 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. E. Prescott SC: The procurement regulator be astute to mind his P’s and Q’s in the way he proceeds with his functions under the Act. I am not going to pretend that I can determine how matters such as this would arrive before the Public Accounts Committee, but it does seem to me that we have the capacity to bring it about and it ought to be considered that this will be a place where the superintendence of what he does, the oversight provision, the oversight offered rather by the Public Accounts Committee might be of value. Secondly, if I may? Our democracy has been protecting a great many freedoms in this society and among them is the freedom of the press. Our media have been providing us over the years, that I know of, with all of the information about public procurement in the society, usually the ones that are sensational. So they go from Lock Joint as Sen. Hadeed so easily malapropped, to today’s stars. 5.15 p.m. I make the point to say that we all know that procurement has always been an issue in this country, it always catches the public’s attention when it is sensational, when there are reasons to doubt that the hands of those who brought it about have been clean. We have a provision in clause 24 of the Bill to which I will invite your attention; clause 24(3), which is to be found on page 20 of the Bill. It says a report is required from the regulator annually to the: “Parliament no later than ninety days after the expiry of the financial year…” And I want to come back to that. And in it, he must give a summary of transactions that have taken place, give information such as the value, the persons to whom these contracts had been awarded, changes in the contracts, et cetera. Then it says at (3): “A report under subsection (1) need not include details of contracts less than fifty thousand dollars…” Now, there are those who would say that that $50,000 limit is much too low, there will be too much reporting. I am not sanguine that that is the best approach. It seems to me that the public ought to know all of the contracts that have been issued, even if it were merely to list the name of the contractor, the person to whom the award is made, and the nature of the work, maybe the cost. But this is the one that caught my attention: The “…report…need not include…contracts for the settlement of legal liability…” 100 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. PRESCOTT SC] And this is where the link between freedom of the press and what I am saying comes about. We know that it is out there in the public domain that settlement of legal liability has been manipulated, it is alleged, in many ways in this country, and one wonders if it was really intended that the—what is this man called? Hon. Senator: Procurement regulator. Sen. E. Prescott SC:—procurement regulator. I like procurator general; that is why it keeps coming up. The procurement regulator should not—well, that it should be taken away from him—this discretion whether he should report on contracts for the settlement of legal liability. That comes about when we have procured services. It is in the procurement of legal services that, according to the media, settlements of legal liability have become tainted in this country and so, I am contending that we ought not to have this provision which allows for the report to exclude contracts of that nature. We are in the middle of reading about other procurements. The procurement of services in the LifeSport Programme is a very current example of the kind of matters that we need to be reading about in the procurement regulator’s report, and to me, it does not matter if the contract is less than $50,000, if it is given to certain categories of persons in the society. And so we ought to be cautious about establishing a threshold and saying, “Beneath that, you need not tell us what you have done with the money”. If that is what is intended by clause 24(3), that he need not tell us what the money is, I am urging that it ought not to be so, that the procurement regulator ought to tell us who has got what. We will all make our determination about the integrity of the beneficiary of those contracts but we will feel safer to know that there has been transparency in the dealings with it. May I now invite your attention to clause 7 of the Bill? Clause 7 says: “This Act applies to public bodies and public-private partnership arrangements.” I know that there is a definition of public bodies. I think—yes, it is at page 5 in the definition clause, clause 4, and the public-private partnership arrangement is also defined there. When we come to committee stage, I will be seeking to persuade that the languaging be different. For now, it says it is: “…an arrangement between a procuring entity and a private party…” I think that we ought to know precisely what is intended by the private party in such circumstances. If it is merely an individual or does this contemplate some institution or organization or association of some sort. Is a public-private 101 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 partnership arrangement, an arrangement between a public body and Elton Prescott or attorney “X” or the man who owns trucks in Arima? We need to be told what is the thinking behind it and then, maybe, in committee stage we might arrive at language that better captures the thinking of the Minister in this regard, and so Minister, I recommend it for your contemplation between now and the time we get to the committee stage. One of the things, too, that I think we need to establish for sure is, does procurement and does this Bill intend to bring within the reach of the procurement regulator and the office, contracts for military armaments and equipment in this society? I understand that under the Central Tenders Board Act, or rather that the protective services were removed from the reach of the Central Tenders Board, and if that is so, one needs to be sure that we are now returning to a situation where all of these must be taken care of in this piece of legislation. The military contracts, in some countries, form the largest part of the economy and determines if the economy goes fast or slow. We have not been engaged in wars or so, but equally, I have reason to think that the cost of military equipment must be quite high, and although there is good reason to be careful about national security, there does not seem to be any reason why we could not know from whence we secured our equipment—military hardware—and at what cost, and how did we arrive at he who was to provide us with the goods, because the temptation, certainly would be great in such areas where the cost to the country of military armaments is extraordinarily high. The next clause that I would wish to deal with, if you please, is clause 38, and you would forgive me for flitting around like this, but much of the other stuff has been dealt with and I do not wish to take time to be rehashing old clothes. So that in clause 38, which is entitled the “Use of electronic processing system in public procurement”. I have been reminded by a colleague Senator that in 2012, under the hand of Minister Bhoendradatt Tewarie, a: “Report of the Joint Select Committee appointed to consider and report to Parliament on the Legislative Proposals to provide for Public Procurement and Disposal of Public Property and the repeal and replacement of the Central Tenders Board Act.” A report dated May 21, 2012; it is just two years ago. Among the recommendations discussed—just bear with me, let me find it. Among the matters discussed was something called e-procurement and I think that e-procurement, although it may well equate in the mind of the Minister with electronic 102 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. PRESCOTT SC] processing, does not have the same impact on my thinking. And granted that I may be way behind the rest of the country on these matters, I am concerned to find that we have not taken the precaution of ensuring that in the electronic processing system, or e-procurement, if they are one and the same, that there will be someone who would have oversight of the Minister. The Minister has been given the power under clause 38 to: “…make Regulations to give effect to…”— this provisions. There is a specific provision in clause 38 that says as to matters pertaining to the electronic processing system: “The Minister may make Regulations to give effect to the provisions of this section.” And, as Sen. Roach has pointed out earlier, you may note that the word “may” has been used so that the Minister is properly entitled to say, “I am making no regulations. I shall simply determine how the electronic processing system would operate”. And if, as is likely, the Minister should take that position, then the opportunities for wrongdoing are multiplied, and clearly the whole purpose of this legislation is to remove those opportunities and to manage how procurement will be done in the public domain. So that I am raising, in respect of clause 38, that we must make clear whether the e- procurement, of which you had spoken, Minister, in 2012, is once again with us in this piece of legislation, and if they are not one and the same thing, tell us why we have gone in that direction and why we should not have made it clear that e-procurement, which is what was recommended by the Joint Select Committee, is best suited to these circumstances. So the reference is to clause 38 and I have dealt with two things: the Minister’s discretion to make regulations and the distinction, if, any, between e- procurement and the electronic processing system. The way I understand it is that if, in the modern world, we can do all of the contracting electronically, then we do not need to meet face to face and we can delete things and put them in files, and get rid of them and nobody knows. I cannot go any further than that because my sinister mind does not go that far. So, I have dealt with clause 38. The regulator, I am suggesting, should be the superintendent of this electronic processing system in any event and all of its administration should be in his hand. Mr. President, I now move to another lighter area. In the definition section, clause 4, the term “bid rigging” has been defined as meaning: 103 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

“…collusion between parties in a procurement proceedings with the intention of manipulating the proceedings;” I suppose the day will come when a court may have to determine whether a particular accused has been bid rigging with that intention. It seems to me that it is unlikely that where parties have colluded in procurement proceedings, that they had no intention of manipulating the proceedings. But, what is more, it speaks of collusion between parties in the procurement proceedings, and we know that public servants have, from time to time, wittingly or unwittingly, allowed themselves to be dragged into situations proprietary to the tender, or during the course of tender proceedings, that had they been properly advised, they would have avoided altogether because it reeks of criminality. And maybe therefore—and this is my recommendation—we ought to look again closely at what we meant to achieve when we defined “bid rigging” in this very loose general fashion and make it tighter—if I may use that term—almost to the point of being a strict liability offence in criminal law. Next, I have been reading the Bill as saying that it wishes to distinguish between the disposal of public property and the procurement of goods and services, and there is good reason, in language, to make that distinction. But is the disposal of waste a procurement issue or a disposal issue? And what governs it? Is the disposal of waste not a big lucrative contract in this country? 5.30 p.m. Sen. G. Singh: Under the CTB, you will have to look for a certain process. Sen. E. Prescott SC: Well, so, therefore, one has to be careful in creating a Japanese wall between disposal and procurement. Hon. Senator: Chinese wall. Sen. E. Prescott SC: It is the Chinese who have the wall? What do the Japanese have? Sen. Young: Samurai Sword. [Laughter] Sen. A. Singh: It is a Chinese wall. Sen. E. Prescott SC: A partition. I am sorry, I did not mean to make any geographical difference between them, or to offend the nationality of anybody here who claims Chinese or Japanese nationality, but a wall. [Laughter] Today, Sen. Young is Indian. 104 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. PRESCOTT SC] So, once again I am urging and it may well return to be dealt with at length in the committee stage. We are making some distinctions more than once in this legislation, between disposal of public property and procurement, with the greater emphasis on procurement. But the day will come when one may have to ask, how did you go about treating with the contractor who gets the waste disposal contract? And if so, was he not really providing a service and, therefore, should be subjected to the regime for procurement as opposed to the less stringent regimes in this Bill for disposal of property? The disposal of—well, I do not need to tell you anything beyond waste, but there are many things that we dispose of. There are many things we dispose of in this country that are done via Government intervention, and they have a cost attached to them. In the Bill, “disposal” is defined as follows: it includes and, therefore, it is not limited to: “…the transfer without value, sale, lease, concession or other alienation of property that is owned by a public body;” On the surface, superficially, one may think this is a reference to real property, although, in fact, it is not so limited. But I come back to the point, is waste public property? Does anybody ever consider it public property? Or to put it more bluntly, when I throw my garbage out, is it property or not? And if Government throws out waste—[Interruption] Sen. Al-Rawi: Scrap iron. Sen. E. Prescott SC:—scrap iron, computers, furniture, they do a lot of these things, people come in and buy a whole warehouse of used furniture. Sen. Al-Rawi: By public auction. Sen. E. Prescott SC: Well, what if it is not so? And is public auction, by the way, covered here? Sen. Al-Rawi: No. Sen. E. Prescott SC: Oh, thankfully. So rather than continue to bell this cat, I have put forward for your consideration, that there needs to be a closer look at the distinctions we are making between disposal and procurement, in light of the fact that there is greater—there is a wider regime of laws affecting procurement, and not disposal. Motor vehicles are probably the most lucrative of the disposal issues that you may have, and you will have to find someone who will dispose of them for you. If I had the contract to dispose of Government motor vehicles which have run their 105 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 course, I will be living good, because there is money in that, and nobody will have to ask me how did I get that contract. It is something that we ought to—that I ought to have been asked to apply for. Next, if I may, Mr. President. In clause 14, which deals with—if you would bear with me—the powers of the office. At 14(1)(c), it is said, that the office may: “issue directions to public bodies to ensure compliance with the Act;” And I do not take credit for having brought it so far, having brought it up because somebody did. Could it possibly be that we have now given to the office, the power to give directions to the Tobago House of Assembly, notwithstanding the Fifth Schedule provisions which are vast? If that is intended, I am not happy that all we have done is define “public body” to include the Tobago House of Assembly, and then said to the office, you may issue directions to the Tobago House of Assembly to ensure compliance with the Act. Certainly, what is intended in the Tobago House of Assembly Act, is to allow for the Tobago House of Assembly virtually autonomously to run its business, and there are aspects of finance that it does run. And there are environmental issues that it has control over, and none of these will be excluded from the procurement practices under this Act, the procurement regime under this Act. We ought to be careful, therefore, that we are not putting/granting power to this thing called the office, when the Tobago House of Assembly Act—and remember, the Tobago House of Assembly is created by the Constitution, says clearly, that there are Fifth Schedule issues which are entirely within the—how does it go— formulation and implementation of which are for the Tobago House of Assembly, and are not to be interfered with by central government. I should like to move forward, if you would permit me. Clause 17, please? Clause 17 caught my attention and I would wish to place on record my concerns about it. It is that part of the Bill that deals with conflicts of interest. It says: “A member of the Board or a committee who has a direct or indirect interest in a matter under consideration by the Board or committee shall disclose the fact of his interest at the meeting of the Board or committee and shall not participate in the consideration of, or vote on, any question relating to the matter.” And then there is a criminal offence attached to the failure to disclose one’s interest. 106 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. PRESCOTT SC] Now, this is not inconsistent with provisions generally in the companies laws, and one would expect in most bodies, that have responsibility for public matters, that you would be expected to disclose your interest and to take no part in the proceedings. But I want to place on record my concern and my recommendation, that not only should the person who has disclosed his interest not take part, but such a person should absent himself from the meeting. Because in this small society, spheres of influence are expanding algebraically, and one only has to sit in the room to bring about the decision you want. So you could declare interest on every matter that comes up, especially if you do have wide fingers, but your presence at the meeting can still produce the result you require. So I am urging that the legislation should be expanded to exclude such a person from the meeting, he or she having disclosed that there is an interest. And moreover, I am urging that there should be some provision that permits an assessment of the issue in respect of which that person has an interest, to determine whether things done in relation to that contract should not be invalidated, as opposed to merely bringing about a criminal prosecution. If the board has advanced the matter—well, if the procuring entity has advanced the matter to a point where some legal impact has been brought about, some contract has been entered into, and I am speaking about the board, I should know that it is a procuring entity. So that things have been done which need to be reversed, because that person did not discover or disclose until it was too late, that he had an interest. One may wish to have the power to go back to the drawing board and say, we will nullify all that we have done before, render it null and void, because of the extent to which the person who has an interest has impacted on our deliberations to date. I cannot put a practical circumstance before you, but I do have in mind situations where such a thing might well be a useful tool to have, that we reverse the decisions taken, and start afresh, if it is not going to be too costly, or if the matter is not too minute in the scheme of things. There is one more, if you would bear with me. It is referring to clause 35 of the Bill. It was a matter which had been raised by Sen. Al-Rawi. A simple observation about how the law is understood by lawyers. Clause 35(9) sought to create a contract where ordinarily there might be none. It says: “Neither a procuring entity nor the respective supplier or contractor…”— pardon me, I am reading the wrong section. It is 35(7), it says: 107 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

“Unless a written procurement contract is required”—so we know that there are times when writing is not required—“a procurement contract in accordance with the terms and conditions of the successful submission enters into force, when the notice of acceptance is dispatched to the supplier or contractor concerned…” And what Sen. Al-Rawi was saying was, that goes against all that we know about the law of contract. And certainly if you look at it in practical terms, if the contract is entered into when the notice is dispatched to the supplier or contractor concerned, then what is meant in subclause (9) of a time between the dispatch of the notice of acceptance, and the entry into force of the procurement contract? When does it really come into force? Subclause (9) says: “Neither a procuring entity nor the respective supplier or contractor shall take any action that interferes with the entry into force of the procurement contract or its performance during the time between the dispatch of the notice…and the entry into force of the procurement contact.” We just said in (7), that it comes into force upon the dispatch of the notice. So that it appears to be incongruous to be speaking about a time between the dispatch of the notice, and the entry into force of the procurement contract. It may turn out to be quite a simple point. There may well be an answer somewhere, residing somewhere that I have not seen, but as between subclause (7) and subclause (9), there seems to be some incongruity and one ought to return to it and make it clear for us, Mr. Minister. Finally, if I had not said finally before, I say it again, clause 36. Clause 36 speaks to the submission of information. Is that right? Bear with me, please. Sen. Vieira: Public notice of the award of a procurement contract.

Sen. E. Prescott SC: Yes, I may have misread my handwriting. Sen. Vieira: See if it is 36.

Sen. E. Prescott SC: It might be 26. I cannot say it is a typo. Sen. Vieira: 26 is simple depository.

Sen. E. Prescott SC: Where is the one that requires a reporting? Yeah, 36. It says: 108 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. PRESCOTT SC] “Upon the entry into force of a procurement contract or conclusion of a framework agreement, a procuring entity shall promptly publish on its website or in any other electronic format, notice of the award of the procurement contract or the framework agreement, specifying the name of any supplier of any contractor with whom the procurement contract or framework agreement was entered into, the goods or services to be supplied, the works to be effected, and in the case of procurement contracts, the date of the award of the contract and the contract price.” And I am urging that we should now seek to expand this to provide information about those who finance the activities of the successful contactor. It would be valuable information for all of us, if we knew who funded or is funding the business of the supplier. There could be some provision made that the information should be extended to include that in relation to the supplier, and to facilitate the accountability and transparency that we have set out to achieve by this piece of legislation. 5.45 p.m. And that brings me to the third final point that I wish to make. It has to do with the challenge proceedings under clause 49. We all know that administrative law has progressed to the point where, if there are procedural irregularities or maladministration among public bodies, the court has reserved the right to, by way of judicial review, revisit the decision-making and, if need be, annul the contract or declare that it is in order.

The challenge proceedings which are in Part V of the Bill, they take up quite a few sections, very substantial provisions, clauses 49 to 52. I have heard it suggested that these challenge proceedings are now a first step or that they should precede judicial review proceedings, but the Bill certainly does not make it clear that it is intended to be such a step. It is being presented for us and one wonders if one could bypass the challenge proceedings in Part V. Sen. Young: Thank you very much, Sen. Prescott. I think I was the one who made that point. As I see it, I am not saying that the Act and that provision—the challenge proceedings expressly prohibit us from going for judicial review, but as you know, one of the issues that you must consider when going for judicial review and the question will be asked: is there an alternative remedy? And with planning cases as we know, coming out of England, this will fall under an alternative remedy proceedings and the court will say, “Well, you have come prematurely; you need to go through that process first before coming for judicial review”. It is directly on point with the planning cases in England, in my respectful opinion, and that is the point I was making. 109 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. E. Prescott SC: I am obliged. Okay, so I return to what I am saying: Can we be told that these proceedings are meant to be preparatory to the judicial review proceedings? Because in one of the provisions, I think it is being suggested that the decision having been taken, you cannot go any further. Can you recall which provision that is? But it is there. Having taken up the challenge proceedings and having failed, it appears that this Part V intends to bring a summary halt to all that one may do and for the moment, assuming that I am not wrong about this, then we ought to look at it. If I am, then Minister, when you are replying, you will probably point out to me where it is that the challenger may go beyond the decision of the procuring entity. Sen. Vieira: It is 51(2). “A supplier or contractor who is notified of an application for review and who fails to participate…is barred.” Sen. E. Prescott SC: I guess this is where you might want to provide the answer and tell us whether the language—thank you very much—suffices. It says at 51(2): “A supplier or contractor who is notified of an application for review and who fails to participate in proceedings relating to the application is barred from subsequently challenging the decisions or actions that are the subject matter of the application.” I am not too sure that that is what I am after, but Minister I invite you to look at it and confirm for us that this is the alternative remedy provision for those who are inclined to go to judicial review and must first cross this hurdle. The time frames, they seem to try to fit everything within a month. Even February will cover me, right? February will cover me, 28 days clear and 29 in each leap year? Within a month. However, I think I have made the point. Clause 52 now, it says: “No public hearing for the purpose of challenge proceedings shall take place and no information shall be disclosed in challenge proceedings if it would: (d) prejudice the legitimate commercial interests of the suppliers or contractors;” Now, are these judicial proceedings or semi-judicial proceedings or quasi-judicial proceedings? What is all this about impeding fair competition that one ought not to have a public hearing and who makes the point, when there is a challenge that these proceedings ought not to go forward because fair competition is going to be impeded? 110 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. PRESCOTT SC] The milieu in which we are is one in which people are begging for fair competition, competing for fair competition if I may use those two terms, and so one needs to be told by what logic did you arrive at the view that a hearing could be made in camera if someone were to raise the question: I am at risk of my legitimate commercial interest being prejudiced by this challenge or that there cannot be fair competition. It seems to me that the semi-judicial officer that has been created under Part V must be able to say no to any such motion by the supplier or contractor before him. And it does not seem to be the right thing to do. If it is going to be an alternative remedy for the purpose of judicial proceedings, then one may well be able to argue, “Well, I could not have a proper hearing.” And so, therefore, that is not a suitable alternative remedy to judicial review proceedings. Judicial review proceedings are not required to be heard in camera; indeed, the bulk of them are heard publicly, except for the practical arrangements in the courts these days. So for the benefit of those who will be looking at the language of the legislation, it seems to me that one ought to tread carefully with the provision in clause 52 and to come back to this Senate and say what was behind it. I did not make the observation about there being no public hearing if the proceedings—well, perhaps I should take my time. It says: “No public hearing for the purpose of challenge proceedings shall take place and no information shall be disclosed…” So two things are going to be prohibited. You are not going to have a hearing and information will not be allowed to be disclosed if either is contrary to law. The language suggests—[Interruption] Mr. President: Hon. Senators, the speaking time of the hon. Senator has expired. Motion made: That the hon. Senator’s speaking time be extended by 15 minutes. [Sen. Dr. R. Balgobin] Question put and agreed to. Sen. E. Prescott SC: Thank you very much, Mr. President. I had promised the Leader of Government Business that I would be finished in 30 minutes, so I will wrap up very quickly, before my 30 minutes expires. I was on clause 52, which says no public hearing shall take place if it will be contrary to law. But in what circumstances could a public hearing of a matter of this nature be contrary to law? And it says no information shall be disclosed in 111 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 challenge proceedings if it will be contrary to law; and I cannot, for the life of me, conceive of the disclosure of information being contrary to law. It may be contrary to national security interests; it might be something that affects a child and we protect children. There might be confidentiality issues in matters pertaining to Government or some public body, but at the bottom I am saying, let us look again at clause 52 and see whether we intended to communicate to the population that you have challenge proceedings, but they may have to be kept under wraps, in camera, because somebody is of the view that it is against the law to have it. If that is not circulis extracabulis, I do not know how you will describe it. It is a conundrum. There is another word I often use, but it escapes me today. Mr. President, I do have one finally and what number is that? Number four. They say lawyers have the most hands; they always have something, on the other hand, to put forward. [Interruption] With most of them, their hands are clean. Mr. President, I thank you very much. [Desk thumping] Sen. Avinash Singh: Thank you, Mr. President. Firstly, I would like to congratulate Sen. Scott on her maiden contribution this afternoon and clearly the UNC and the COP are following in the footsteps of the strongest party, the strongest political force in the Caribbean, the People's National Movement, for heeding the calls of the Leader of the Opposition, Dr. The Hon. Keith Christopher Rowley for giving the young people a chance to take the responsibility for their lives and represent the interest of the country. [Desk thumping] Today I rise to make a contribution on this Bill that seeks to provide for public procurement and the disposal of public property in accordance with the principles of good governance, namely accountability, integrity, transparency, value for money and the establishment of the office of the procurement regulation. Let me refresh the position of the People’s National Movement and this Opposition as we are fully prepared to contribute to this and any Bill that seeks to bring back sanity, accountability, integrity, transparency, good governance and value for money, the watchwords of this very Bill, in our country. Why now? Why now after four years, public procurement, this Bill, surfaces? Mr. President, public procurement can be directly linked to campaign finance and, as we are all aware, the Government is on its last months of administration and will soon be launching a well-anticipated million-dollar campaign. 112 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SINGH] Procurement legislation is the backbone of an economy. It fuels and stimulates activity geared towards the efficiency, the effectiveness and the sustainable development of any nation, but it must be drafted to accommodate the culture and lifestyle of any nation. After going through this Bill, it is my respectful view that this Bill contains many cut-and-paste inserts, not really thoroughly reviewed and it has many serious implications on the operationalization of the legislation. It appears to be somewhat draconian and, as indicated by my colleagues on this side, this Bill took all of us by surprise in the timing of it being debated, mere months before Parliament is set to go on recess as we call it—just another checkbox item to add to the many bad laws passed by this People’s Partnership administration. Let me go straight into some of the details of my findings and observations of this Bill. Clause 2, which provides for the commencement of this Act, for which this is a Bill by proclamation. Why proclamation? This situation currently, in my view, this People’s Partnership Government is bringing this Bill here before this august Chamber and have that trump card in their pocket via proclamation, so that if they feel that mere weeks before a general election, they are going to lose this election, they will pull that trump card and insert this legislation into the system. But if, strange enough, they are going to win the election, they might do otherwise. The point I am trying to make, Mr. President, is that $300-plus billion have been spent without any sort of procurement legislation in place. So there is nothing of substance and this Bill will be activated depending on the outcome of the next general election. 6.00 p.m. Mr. President, let me move to some of the interpretations, and I like the first definition as it stands out very nicely as a priority and definitely it was the first thing that came to the Government’s mind when drafting this Bill. Maybe they were in front of a mirror when drafting this Bill. Bid rigging; I will deal with that in a while. The next interpretation that sounds good but in reality it has really left out the operations of the rest of this Bill, and that is the disposal of public property. I will read that definition here in this Bill. “‘disposal of public property’ includes the transfer without value, sale, lease, concession, or other alienation of property that is owned by a public body;” 113 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Mr. President, when you read this definition and you correlate this definition with the only part in this Bill that seeks to deal with the disposal of land, and it relates to clause 53 of this Bill, the “disposal of stores and equipment of a public body”. Nowhere in this Bill was the disposal of land fully, really ventilated in this Bill. So what really happened in the preparation of this Bill when it comes to the disposal of land? In fact, it is not coincidence that I am debating this Bill just a few days or weeks after the recent Felicity fiasco emerged like a thief in the night. I am going to deal with that issue here in this august Chamber and put some sanity back into the minds of our population [Desk thumping] as it deals with that issue. Let me start on the onset in terms of the procurement procedures for that said parcel of land. The hon. Minister of Food Production in his statement to this Parliament indicated some of the scenarios and some of the truthful steps in that situation, but he failed to also indicate some of the individuals who were given the said lands in the Felicity phase. They were relocated to elsewhere, more “primer” property in the VSEP packages. Hon. Senator: You want to explain what is “more primer property”? Sen. A. Singh: “Primer” in value and so on. You know what I mean. Right. [Crosstalk] This situation really sparked a lot of controversy in the public domain. I was attacked brutally by many Ministers in this Government in public and I am going to take the opportunity to really set the record straight as it deals with this said land. This land consists of over 250 farming families, and these people would have been in this land for some nine years plus. It is well documented and recorded, and the Ministry of Food Production, County Caroni Division, would be happy and willing to issue documentation to prove that. Sen. Maharaj: They have the lease? You have a lease? Sen. A. Singh: I will come to that. Strange enough, these farmers had a legitimate expectation of the fact that millions of our taxpayers’ dollars were invested in this same land for the purpose of agricultural. I will go into details. I will call the figures. I will go into the details. [Crosstalk] Let me start, Mr. President. As most of you all would be aware, and it has direct implications with respect to this law where procurement is concerned, during the Chaguanas West by-election many contracts were tendered and many contracts were given out. I am going to give way this afternoon to any Minister, 114 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SINGH] or any Member of this august Senate, to let me know—because I seek clarification just like the public—as to who URP really falls under. Having said that, if you go to the Government’s website you would see URP falling under the hon. Minister of Local Government, and documents surfaced later on to show that URP is under the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure. So I am willing to give way now at this point in time for any Member to clarify that issue as to where URP directly falls under. Sen. Maharaj: Thank you very much, Senator, for giving way. By way of explanation, the URP project was divided among several Ministries: the Ministry of the People and Social Development, the Ministry of Food Production and the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure, for their various projects and so on, where the administration was being conducted by the Office of the Prime Minister. Subsequent to that, the administration of the URP was subsequently moved to the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure, which now has their own URP project, as well as the administration of the overall URP projects for their own, as well as the other two components. Sen. A. Singh: Thank you, hon. Minister, for that clarification. Hon. Member: So which is the real URP? Sen. A. Singh: Exactly. I do not know which is the real URP, but I know that it is public money that is being spent and procurement is directly related to that aspect. Now, as I was indicating to this honourable Senate, during that Chaguanas West by-election, a lot took place and I want to directly raise a point here. During that Chaguanas West by-election, some 289 projects would have been on the go under the URP Agriculture, and in Chaguanas West 118 projects were undertaken by the URP Agriculture worth $48 million, during that period of time for the Chaguanas West by-election. I am going to come to that in detailed fashion where there is breach of process, breach of procedure and no procurement in place. But this Government has the testicular fortitude to come to this august Parliament and want to lay this on the table here and act like if they are all good and clean. Mr. President, let me start off by giving you a little idea as to some of the contracts that were procured for that programme under the URP Agriculture. Two hundred and eighty-nine projects, as I mentioned earlier, and these programmes were assented and witnessed by the hon. Minister of Food Production, my colleague Devant Maharaj, to the tune of $48 million, and out of all the programmes, 118 projects in Felicity alone. Mr. President, that paints a picture. I 115 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 have a report here that I will go into detail just now because, strange enough, a question was asked in the other place and answers came out and I would like to read that in terms of this URP programme. Hansard has it, Mr. President, where the Member of Parliament for Chaguanas West asked questions relating to these URP programmes that were done during the period of time where the country was undergoing the Chaguanas West by-election. I will not go into all the details, I will just raise the issues. Out of these contracts, out of these programmes, these 289 projects, it must be noted that four contractors were paid out of all the contractors. Four contractors! I do not know what the criteria used to pay these contractors were, but I will get to that shortly. I would like to raise an issue here that was read into the parliamentary Hansard, dated March 14, 2014, page 16, and it was the response by the hon. Minister of Works and Infrastructure: “Project No. 101, Lal Beharry Trace, contractor, Actril General Contractors, contract sum $234,914.18. Evidence of works was seen during the site visit with the exception of the ponding works where no ponding…was observed. Therefore, the contract sum was adjusted by $38,191.15 resulting in a payment being processed for $196,722.68.” This is one of the contractors out of the set of contractors that would have undergone jobs there that were paid. So if you are telling me that this contractor, having submitted fraudulent documentation, fraudulent figures, claiming works that were not done, was paid, what about all the other contractors? I will get to the report on all the other contractors shortly. I raised this particular contractor because I was curious as to what the implications of this contractor were, so I went and did a little bit of research and going through some research, this contractor—strange enough, I googled, like everybody else, the name of the company and it came up on an international site where companies, local, foreign; all of these companies placed their information to aid in getting contracts and works, and sell products and so on. I would like to read from this document pulled from the Turkey B2B Marketplace, and you can google it, it is on the website, the World Wide Web, and when you type in Actril General Contractors Company Limited, and I will spell it, A-c-t-r-i-l General Contractors Company Limited: “Distributor”—of—“Lights” 116 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SINGH] “Established 2000 Sales Not Known” Location: “Arima Port of Spain Trinidad and Tobago” Contact Person: Jairam Seemungal” I do not know if this is the same person that is in Government, Mr. President. Strange enough, I also did my research locally on Actril in Trinidad, and from 2000 to somewhere 2011, no records, directors changed, and one Mr. Ramesh Seemungal is now one of the directors there. But I will just raise that as it is there and I will get back to that, but I would like you to understand what is really taking place in this country. Because I recall earlier in this Government’s tenure, one Government official had to be fired for giving her brother a $100,000 contract. So what can go for one definitely can go for the other. [Interruption] Actril. That is the name of the company. You can check it out. In fact, that was one of the contractors paid out of the entire project, right, and I will like to let you know four contractors were paid out of the programme, out of the projects. Only four out of the 289 projects that were done, and this was done during the Chaguanas West by-election. Right. It was $116 million being owed to—I will get it—how much contractors— Hon. Senator: The Minister of Finance and the Economy has to investigate that. Sen. A. Singh: Yes, it must be investigated because as I said earlier, if it was good for Mary King and she was fired for giving her brother a contract for $100,000, then by all means, if this person that I called here has any implications or affiliation to this Government, action must be taken with urgency. Because this is just one programme and one project that Actril got and I am sure there are many more. Many more! Sen. Hadeed: Well let us hear them. Sen. A. Singh: You will hear them in time. 6.15 p.m. Mr. President, I will get back to that but let me go on, clause 58(3). Sen. Al-Rawi: “Take two pull nuh Jerry; cool off.” 117 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Hadeed: You know what to pull on. [Laughter and desk thumping] “Doh deal with me, yuh know, I have all de answers for you.” Sen. Al-Rawi: “Take two pull.” Sen. A. Singh: Mr. President, when the question was also posed as to this fraudulent document and fraudulent invoice that was submitted for work claimed, which was not done, to be paid, the hon. Minister indicated and Hansard also has it, he said: “Mr. Speaker, wherever persons attempt to defraud the Government, there is a legal process that can be instituted and that can be used in order to ensure that those persons are treated under the auspices of the law.” That was good for Mary King, hon. Minister. I would like to know if this would also be good for all those individuals—but I also would like to take the opportunity to also call for an investigation into that scenario, because I am very concerned. I am a very concerned citizen where my taxpayer dollars are going, and I will like to see this matter investigated. I will also like to add—I am not saying that wrong is done, I would just like an investigation to see if something was done wrong. [Crosstalk] Mr. President, I can tell you, we would like to follow proper procurement process. [Interruption] PROCEDURAL MOTION The Minister of the Environment and Water Resources (Sen. The Hon. Ganga Singh): Thank you, Mr. President, thank you hon. Senator. In accordance with Standing Order 9(8), I beg to move that the Senate continue to sit beyond the time appointed for the termination of the sitting, to continue the business at hand. Question put and agreed to. PUBLIC PROCUREMENT AND DISPOSAL OF PUBLIC PROPERTY BILL, 2014 Sen. A. Singh: Thank you, Mr. President. As I was dealing with that particular issue I raised just now, while on my way to the Parliament this afternoon I was faced with over 30 individuals claiming to be contractors, coincidentally for this same said project, this same said work that was done. They made some statements in terms of why they are not being paid for work done. As I indicated earlier, fours contractor were paid out of the 289 projects and 57 contractors were involved in this programme. So out of 57 contractors, four were paid. I would like to know what the procedure was, how did these contractors come first in the list, one out of four out of all. What was the 118 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SINGH] criteria being used to pay these four—and it is said in the Hansard—although fraudulent invoices were sent in and evidence of work not seen for the money that was claimed? So that is just that one issue which deals with procurement, and I will get back to furnishing some more information on that matter. Mr. President, moving on. When I read clause 13 out of the Bill, functions of the office of procurement regulation, I really feel as though I am in Denmark or New Zealand, because as it stands Trinidad and Tobago ranks 83 out of 177 countries in the world on the Corruption Perception Index. Sen. Hadeed: “All yuh put we there.” Sen. A. Singh: That is up to the latest corruption index, 2013. [Crosstalk] With the presence of a video that is now circulating on social media—and this is something very important; I want Senators to really pay attention to what I am about to say—this video that is being circulated is not the LifeSport video; this is a serious matter here. [Crosstalk] The video which is done by Vice News is entitled “Corruption, Cocaine and Murder in Trinidad”. It was published by Vice News on social media site YouTube, where the world is watching. In seven days that video got over 350,000 views—in just seven days. [Crosstalk] This video, I honestly wish that I could really explain to you, Mr. President, the contents of that documentary, but let us just say that after watching that video, I felt disgusted and ashamed to be a Trinidadian for the 23 minutes 20 seconds of that presentation. My insides exploded and my heart bled with pain to know where we as a nation have come to, at least that is what the world is thinking of us Trinidadians. Let me repeat the video name for all of you to go and look at it, “Corruption, Cocaine and Murder in Trinidad”, and this is published on social media. It was published by Vice News, and it is present day reality 2014, under the administration of the People’s Partnership Government this is taking place.

Sen. Al-Rawi: Roll-joint government! Dismantling of SAUTT. Sen. A. Singh: Mr. President, if something is working perfect, free and fair, there is no reason to change it, like the political leader of the People’s National Movement. The people spoke in their thousands resoundingly in support of Dr. Keith Rowley. Why I am saying this is because public perception tends to be reality in our country, and I really sadly cannot say the same about the LifeSport Programme, because public perception, if the Government were to come out and explain to the population what transpired there, we would be able to rest. 119 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Mr. President, let me spend some time on clause 60, offences involving bid rigging and collusion, familiar words to this People’s Partnership Government’s ear. [Desk thumping and laughter] You know a government is desperate and has failed in its mandate, when allegations of collusion and bid rigging can be pointed in the direction of very high officials of the State. Let me give you a few examples of these very effects we are trying to prevent by having a Bill like this being proclaimed, and I turn your attention to, in my view, something worse that this LifeSport fiasco—something worse than that. Sen. Al-Rawi: Worse than LifeSport? Sen. A. Singh: And I crave your indulgence, because I am going to show you here, Mr. President, what this People’s Partnership Government is capable of doing. I refer your attention to the URP situation. I am going to call it a URP scandal, a URP-gate if you want to call it that. Value for money, that is the intention of this Bill. That is the intention of any government where procurement is concerned. We want value for money. I would like to show you some strange collusion by public officials, high officials of the State. Let me start with VMCOTT. I will start with the least of the evils. A tender went out recently for: “Repair/Replacement of Roofing and Roof Turbines at VMCOTT Beetham Gardens Facility, Tender Reference RRT/T04/13.” This tender went out, seven contractors bid for this project. It went through some tender process, I am advised, and it came down to three selected contractors being shortlisted. Let me call out these contractors. The seven contractors that bid for the programme: Contractor number one, Arvcon Services Limited, they bid $363,980; contractor number two, Complete Designs Restores Limited, $469,194.38; SEAL Sprayed Solutions, $682,000; contractor number four, Amnesty Construction Limited, $689,100; Conaft Limited, $733,800; Quipcon Limited, $1,366,150 and contractor number seven, D. Mahadeo & Son Limited, $1,676,400. Mr. President, all in all it went through procedure, at least that is what is claimed by VMCOTT. It boils down to three contractors being shortlisted, and these are: Complete Designs Restores Limited, number two, Amnesty Construction Limited and number three, Conaft Limited. Lo and behold, the contract was given out to SEAL Sprayed Solutions, which was nowhere in the shortlist. Nowhere in the shortlist was it even boiled down to. They even have a report here on SEAL Sprayed, and I will read that too, VMCOTT: 120 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SINGH] “The Tenders Sub Committee noted that although Seal Sprayed Solutions did not meet the required specification and is over the internal cost estimate by $181,600.00, the company’s submitted proposal should be reviewed.” Mr. President, this is just one. I can stay whole night and whole day tomorrow bringing up all the others with respect to VMCOTT; but this is just one. I am telling you, if you all think LifeSport is bad, let me go back to URP. Collusion in VMCOTT, proof, black and white. Let us go back to URP, and this one is a little more wicked and a little more evil than that one. [Crosstalk] Let us go through. Let me start with this second one. You talk about collusion and breach and bid rigging in procurement procedure this Government is flashing after $300- plus billion spent with no procurement, they now drop it on us like a thief in the night, and this is what they are doing. Let me go to the second one: “Memorandum To: The Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Works and Infrastructure. USF: Administrative Officer IV, Ministry of Works and Infrastructure” I will leave out that for now; let me just go into the nitty-gritty, the details of this. On January 15, 2014, tenders were invited for a project: First Street East Trincity footpath: “Location: First Street East Trincity. Description of Project: Footpath 60m by 1.20m and slipper drain 60m...cylinder” Estimated Amount: $125,494.58.” Companies invited, five companies: Balidin Contracting; Winters Gen. Contractor; Goodridge Gen. Contractor; LH Construction and J & S Movers. First company, $120,000—they tendered just around that; second company, $143,000; third company, $123,000; fourth company, $128,000; fifth company, $119,000, and in the document it was recommended that J & S Movers get this contract, after, of course, probably the tendering. I do not know how they do it at the Ministry of Works and Infrastructure. 121 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

“Remarks: The committee recommends J & S Movers Co. Ltd for the First Street East Trincity Footpath and Culvert project since they are the lowest tenderer.” Mr. President, this was January 15, 2014. I do not know what took place from then, but another memorandum appeared, February 06, 2014. I do not know what took place from January 15 to February 06, but let me let you know the documentation and the information here. 6.30 p.m. Project: First Street East Trincity construction, location First Street East, Trincity, description of project—supply drains 60 metres, same dimensions, estimated amount—$125,494.58, contractors Linton Enterprises, A. Rambaran Enterprises and Raghoonanan’s Transport. Same project, same work, two different dates, same signatures on all—same signatures on all—one having five contractors tendering, one having three contractors tendering, recommended J&S Movers Company Limited, here, and recommended here—Linton Enterprises; same contract. Now, both signed, both stamped, both received, project secretary, URP manager, two programmes, same work, two different dates, same Ministry. Mr. President, what is really going on here? Sen. Al-Rawi: Procurement PP-style. Sen. A. Singh: What is this, Mr. President? Sen. Al-Rawi: Roll-joint scandal. Sen. A. Singh: What is this? Silence on the Government Bench. Hon. Senator: Cannot answer that. Sen. A. Singh: They cannot answer this. Sen. Al-Rawi: Call on the Minister of Finance and the Economy to investigate. Sen. A. Singh: Mr. President, let us just say that this was a little bit more wicked and evil than the first one I said. I am coming to more, Mr. President. I am well prepared here. All right. So, Mr. President, through you, hon. Minister of Finance and the Economy, deal with this. Sen. Al-Rawi: More to investigate. 122 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. A. Singh: Deal with this. I am telling you it is worse than the LifeSport Programme. URP in this country is worse than the LifeSport, and we will be calling for a full investigation into every single contract tendered, every single contract given out at that URP. [Desk thumping] Every single one. Hon. Senator: Investigate URP. Sen. A. Singh: Mr. President, let us go to the other—I will save the best for last, but let us go to the other, and pay attention, Mr. President. I would like to read this one out. And this one, Mr. President—I am dealing with the Bill, collusion, procurement, bid rigging, transparency, accountability—[Interruption] Sen. Hadeed: And squatting. Sen. A. Singh: All “ah dat”. Sen. Al-Rawi: And what Minister Hadeed has to say? Best Government ever. Sen. A. Singh: Absolutely nothing. Sen. Hadeed: I will respond to it, “doh” worry. Sen. Al-Rawi: “Yuh” looking like “yuh” roll—[Interruption] Sen. Hadeed: You will get the response. [Crosstalk] Sen. A. Singh: So, Mr. President, a government brings this nice Bill, [Crosstalk] I told you when I read this Bill I really felt comfortable as a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago having a government that claims to care and wants value for money. But let me see value for money here, Mr. President. This is another project [Crosstalk] Yes, you will get an answer just now. This is another project, Mr. President. Office of the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Works and Infrastructure, again, from the programme manager: “This is to inform you that the Honourable Minister of Works and Infrastructure has approved the following projects for tendering. NOS NAME OF PROJECTS ESTIMATED COST 1. Upper Marie Community Project— $314,697.25 Construction of Retaining Wall 2. Upper 7th Avenue Community Project— $229,844.75 Construction of Retaining Wall Box Drain and Slipper Drain 3. Laventille Road Community Project— $257,297,50 Construction of Retaining Wall” 123 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Mr. President, signed by the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Works and Infrastructure. There are two more projects, 4 and 5, “4. Vegas Community Project— $244,995.20 Construction of Box Drains 5. Leon Street Community Programme— $228,023.25 Construction of Retaining Wall,” Mr. President, this document was also accompanied by a memorandum and the subject, Mr. President, in bold underlined, list of contractors recommended by the line Minister, from Mr. Kenrick Castellano, Deputy Programme Manager, Engineering, URP—Unemployment Relief Programme—to the Region Manager, Region 3, Mount Hope, Unemployment Relief Programme. Mr. President, so when this document surfaced—[Interruption] Hon. Senator: Minister choosing contractor? Sen. A. Singh: Well, wait. I am coming to that. Three programmes, Mr. President, [Crosstalk] three programmes. Project number one—and this is a list of contractors recommended by the line Minister: Upper Marie Community Project, construction of retention wall, $314,697.25—Alvin Baptiste, contact 306 0551. One contractor that was recommended by the line Minister to get the job. Project number two, Laventille Road Community Project, construction of retention wall, $257,297.18—Daniel Johnson, contact, 374 7419. Project number three, Leon Street community project, construction of retention wall, $314,697.25—Elite Worldwide, contact 767 9071. Mr. President, signed, Deputy Programme Manager, Engineering, December 06, 2013. Mr. President, I am saving the best for last, but this is just to give you an idea where you have collusion, bid rigging, lack of accountability, no transparency, misbehaviour in public office, and I could on and on, Mr. President. [Crosstalk] And they really wanted to school us on our history. Mr. President, we all make mistakes in life, but what are we prepared to do about it? We are here in this august Senate to try to fix things, to try to make this country sustainable for our future generations to benefit from. Do not come here and tell me about what, whoever did 70 years ago. Mr. President, while we are not going to forget what happened, let us try to come together and fix it. Do not dwell on the past. Let us fix the current situation. Let us fix the current situation. It hurts when you have a line Minister recommending projects, choosing contractors, individual, hand-picked, and what is that? Bid rigging, collusion, every single thing this Bill seeks to— [Interruption] 124 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Al-Rawi: Breach of procurement. Sen. A. Singh:—address, Mr. President. Let me go to another. I have a lot. Let me go to another. Hon. Senator: Investigate URP. Sen. A. Singh: Like I said, if you all think LifeSport is bad, URP is worse. Another document, Mr. President. And this one really hurt me as a Member of Parliament. This one struck me the most. As a young person in this country aiming for heights, aspiring to probably be Prime Minister one day, when you have Members of Parliament [Desk thumping] interfering with process, procedure like this, it definitely gives you sight for me to probably go back into agriculture and produce food for everybody to eat, and not be here. This is the level of disrespect, Mr. President. [Crosstalk] This is why the public perceives Members of Parliament as people who do not work. This is why the SFC does not respect our job. Sen. Al-Rawi: SRC. Sen. A. Singh: The SRC. This is why they do not really respect us when things like this happen. I am shocked, I am saddened, I am disgusted by this, Mr. President. When you could have a high official, a Member of Parliament—And let me just quote the bold caption on this letter—“To be Invoice Urgently”. What does this mean, Mr. President? When you have a Member of Parliament writing to subordinates below the Permanent Secretary, copying an AOII, requesting greetings. I quote: “I write you with regards to materials for the use by Councillors within the Tabaquite Constituency. It is to be noted that these materials will be stored at Charles Street, Gasparillo, and will be used for projects in the Districts. The following list of material is being…”—used—“urgently and is to be invoiced”—urgently. Why “urgently”? Mr. President, these contractors who were protesting downstairs, these 50-something contractors, four were paid, the rest of them were not paid. [Crosstalk] I am coming to that just now. But this one, Mr. President, this one hurts me personally, as a Member of Parliament. When you could have collusion, bid rigging—the highest order—and you are supposed to represent citizens, and represent persons’ rights, Mr. President. Come 125 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 on. And the material—the following list of material is being requested urgently and is to be invoiced— i. “400 metre of Oil Sand ii. 500 metre…of Yellow Crush… iii. 300 metre…of ½ and ½” Mr. President, 1,200 metres of material, 150 truckloads of material is currently—I do not know if it is still stored—in Charles Street, Gasparillo; investigate it. From the direction of a Member of Parliament in writing—[Crosstalk] Hon. Senator: Not even Hugh Grant. Sen. A. Singh:—dated February 06, 2014, Mr. President. Stamped—no, no— received on February 06, 2014. It was written on January 31, 2014. Signed, sealed, delivered by a Member of Parliament. Total disgust. Total disrespect to the democracy of our parliamentary system. [Desk thumping] Total disrespect, misbehaviour in public office. And what are your authorities going to do about this? Hon. Senator: Transfer it to another Ministry. Sen. A. Singh: Transfer it to another Ministry? And that is why the URP has undergone so many changes; URP Agriculture, URP Social, URP under the Office of the Prime Minister. Mr. President, what is taking place here? Sen. Al-Rawi: They have a new defence: it was not me. Hon. Senator: Tell them about squatting. Sen. A. Singh: I am coming to squatting now. I am coming to squatting now—as the crosstalk. Mr. President: Hon. Senators, the speaking time of the hon. Senator has expired. Motion made: That the hon. Senator’s speaking time be extended by 15 minutes. [Sen. F. Al-Rawi] Question put and agreed to. Sen. A. Singh: Thank you, hon. Members. I know it is very interesting, but I simply would like to say thank you for the extension and I will try to wrap-up as soon as I get the main one out. 126 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SINGH] But, Mr. President, this Government does not come clean. This Government does not come out and inform the population on decisions taken by Cabinet until urgently necessary, and the public is not aware of what is going on. At all state agencies, Mr. President, it is left for us the Opposition to either file a question, file a Motion, asking the Government to account for its actions. Mr. President, information is also brought to the public domain via the Public Accounts (Enterprises) Committee which also requires more Members in my view. And this has always been a call by the Leader of the Opposition to have effective parliamentary system and structure, efficient in serving the best interest of our nation— full scale parliamentary reform. Mr. President, how can it ever be effective having Ministers sit in committees interrogating their own Ministries, Mr. President— Hon. Senator: Correct. Sen. A. Singh:—or state entities? Think about this. It will be impossible for checks and balances to be properly reflected. This Government is not serious about the well- being of the safety of our economy, Mr. President. In order for a Bill of this nature to really work, there must be a chain effect in supporting legislation for the enforcement and the real operationalization. We need a functioning revenue authority, scrapped by the UNC, Mr. President. We need to have the Exchequer and Audit Act. We need to ensure funding is made available back-to-back so that the authority’s hands are not tied as in the case of the Integrity Commission, Mr. President; being starved of resources. We can come up with the best piece of legislation, but with no resources to put it into action, Mr. President, it is not even worth the paper that it is on. Mr. President, the scandals by this People’s Partnership Government are have so blatant and real, when it comes to the procurement of goods and services and the population gets no answer on serious allegations of corruption, heavy machine purchased by a state enterprise found on private property—silence. Bid rigging between WASA, NGC Wastewater Project—nothing. In fact, Mr. President, I would not be shocked—[Crosstalk] Hon. Senator: Gravel and sand. Sen. A. Singh: You all will have your chance to speak. Mr. President, I would not be shocked if in the near future a Cabinet Note appears giving ex-Caroni workers the authority to sell their one lot residential plots and dispose their two-acre agricultural parcels of land which was initially in the form of a lease. And this document, Mr. President, deals with lease as well, but nothing is there in terms of land. Nothing is there in terms of disposal of land. 127 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Mr. President, I invite you to drive down to Reform Village in San Fernando and observe strange construction taking place on approximately 18-plus acres of land that was given to ex-Caroni workers, and not to mention how a favourite financier acquired over 70 acres of former Caroni lands. Sen. Al-Rawi: Tell them that again. Hon. Senator: Who is that? Sen. A. Singh: And I will mention—I will repeat that. Sen. Al-Rawi: Tell them the name. [Crosstalk] Sen. A. Singh: Not to mention how a known favourite financier acquired over 70 acres of former Caroni lands; 73 to be exact, Mr. President. Mr. President, perhaps, this is why the disposal of land is not taken care of and was wilfully left out in this Bill in dealing with disposal of public property. But I would say more on that, not today. 6.45 p.m. Mr. President, I was telling you about the situation with the contractors that I faced walking up the stairs this morning, and after that $48 million contract went out during the Chaguanas West by-election—Ministry of Finance and the Economy, Investment Division, Central Audit Committee. This document is an audit into that situation. Report on the Review of the claims submitted by contractors of the Unemployment Relief Programme for agricultural works conducted during the period June 2013 to September 2013, April 15, 2014. I am not going to go through the whole thing but let me just read a few items that struck me: Audit scope; the scope of the assignment was to verify that the URP claims for the agricultural works carried out for the period June 2013—September 2013 are valid, that they were not previously paid and that works were actually performed and satisfactorily completed to the period specified. Mr. President, the background information: Central audit was also informed that coincidentally this exercise was accelerated during the campaign for the Chaguanas West by-election. A contractor who asked to remain anonymous said that he was conducting similar works in another electoral district when he was asked to stop all works and proceed to Felicity in the electoral district of Chaguanas West. The contractor claimed that during a meeting in Felicity with the relevant stakeholders, instructions were given by a senior government official that contracts be awarded to small contracts to assist farmers. 128 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Young: What document is that? Sen. A. Singh: This is the Ministry of Finance and the Economy Investment Division, Central Audit Committee. Sen. Young: Another Ministry of Finance and the Economy audit. Sen. A. Singh: Mr. President, I tell you it goes on. Let me just read one or two things on this again. It is there for public knowledge: As a consequence, proper tendering procedures were not followed which resulted in the projects being subdivided into numerous phases in order to not exceed the authority level of the Permanent Secretary. Central audit, however, observed that in all cases projects were renamed into phases such that when the estimate cost of the different phases with the same name are totalled, the project does not exceed $1 million. This resulted in some projects having less than or more than three phases. Understand what is taking place here. Let me go on: Central audit is cognizant of the fact that there is a possibility that there may have been collusion between the contractors, the farmers and the villagers. And clause 31: “A public body shall not split procurement requirements for a given quantity of goods, works or services to avoid obligations under the Act.” So, I am telling you, if you think and I will repeat it again, if you think LifeSport is crazy, visit URP? Moving on: As a result both contractors KEL and RLAS submitted request for payments for School Trace, Phase I and II, Appendix III refers: Central audit saw no evidence of work being done. The process for the entire exercise was not transparent hence the delay in the payments. And because of this, Mr. President, the contractors have to suffer, the contractors have to lose their homes, the contractors cannot send their children to school, and the list goes on. This investigation resulted in persons being terminated who were working at the URP. And the Minister of Food Production is well aware of these situations, because this programme, with all the projects is under his Ministry, 289 projects, were signed by him. They were signed off by him, the PS and everybody else—URP Agriculture. 129 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Howai: Mr. President, if I might just to, perhaps, put a bit of context around this, just to say that our central audit did review this and for the record, no payments have been made and we have held all payments until we can be satisfied that the work has been done and therefore value has been received. So, I just want to re-emphasize, no payments have been made. Sen. A. Singh: Thank you, hon. Minister. [Crosstalk] But I will ask you, hon. Minister, seeing that you are aware of the document and nobody is aware of this document, this document points to a senior government official. What is being done? What is being done—$48 million? [Interruption] And let me just say in closing, Mr. President, when you want to come and bulldoze land, the disposal of state property, let me tell you what it costs the State. If you all remember Egypt Trace. Let us go back to Egypt Trace when, as the situation arose and farmers were bulldozed, they were compensated and relocated, do you all know, does the population know that bulldozing cost us taxpayers $1.2 million for that bulldozing? Twelve farmers, 16 plots, 41 acres, and you have a Government that wants to come into Felicity, over 350 acres, 200 families and you are talking about procurement process, procurement procedure. I would advise, take that 73 acres that you all give your friends and put that into housing. Leave this 250 acres in food. Leave this 250 acres in food! [Desk thumping] It was further “exclamated” when one of your sitting Ministers—and I could quote him. I will quote him, April 29, 2011: “Bharath said, ‘I have considered the consequences and, as far as I am concerned, this (supporting the farmers) means more to me than the consequences.’” Where is the Minister of Food Production in the farming issues in Felicity? [Desk thumping] Over 250 farming families are going to be affected. [Interruption] Leave the land for food. Sen. Hadeed: No squatting. Food, yes; no squatting. Sen. A. Singh: Mr. President, Sen. Bharath said that there is an urgent need for a policy on housing and agriculture. [Interruption] He was right. If you could recall, Sen. Vasant Bharath accompanied the Egypt Trace farmers in that protest in that march in Port of Spain with the hon. Prakash Ramadhar and hon. Stephen Cadiz. They went and they protested the rights of farmers, the rights of food for this nation. [Interruption] You are preaching lower food prices, you are preaching food sustainability and you want to bulldoze 250 acres. [Crosstalk] 130 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SINGH] Mr. President, if you all feel that you can just come here and do wrong and get away with it, think again. Sen. Hadeed: Squatting is wrong. [Desk thumping] Sen. A. Singh: Squatting is in our law books. Squatting is in our law books. [Crosstalk] Mr. President, how much time do I have? Mr. President: You have two more minutes. Sen. A. Singh: Two more minutes. Mr. President, these farmers have state- land status, farmer’s badge, some of them have gone through ADB, taken loans, millions of dollars in investments. Do not take my word for it, hon. Senators, come to Felicity, look at the site and you be the judge. Come and compare the level of food production that is being done there and the Minister of Food Production is fully aware of this. [Desk thumping and crosstalk] We will not sit back and watch you bulldoze food. The hon. Prime Minister in a statement mentioned that no food in this country will ever be bulldozed. [Interruption] Shame on this Government! Shame on this People's Partnership Government! And let me add, opportunity cost value for money. Mr. President, in closing, opportunity cost value for money. [Interruption] You have seen here 41 acres being bulldozed, 16 plots, 12 farmers, $1.2 million; think about what it is going to cost the State to bulldoze 400 acres, remove 250 farming families who have been there for over nine years and I have documents to show that once you are under the patronage/leadership of Vasant Bharath, once you own State land over five years, you have legitimate expectations and legitimate rights. [Crosstalk] So, let me tell this Government something, in warning, we will take it to court. [Crosstalk] Mr. President: Senators! Senators! Senators! Sen. A. Singh: On that note, Mr. President—protection please? Protection, please, Mr. President. They will have their chance. [Interruption] I have a lot more to say on this and I am going to urge this Government to really think of what they are trying to do, think about—[Interruption] you will have your chance to speak. Hon. Senator: Victimization. Sen. A. Singh: Victimization to the fullest extent. Procurement, bid rigging, scandal, collusion; all pointing fingers and the hon. Minister of Finance and the Economy is here present, fully aware of this document, and what is he doing about it? [Crosstalk] What is he doing about it? 131 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Mr. President, with that, I am not finished, but with that I will stop here now and let this population think about what this People’s Partnership Government is doing to the poor people, is doing to the ordinary citizens of this country, and it does not care about the population and the rights of our citizens. Mr. President, I thank you for that. [Desk thumping] Sen. Anthony Vieira: Thank you. Mr. President, Senators, I would ask you to please bear with me, I recently had a bad case of laryngitis so if my voice falters it is because it has not fully recovered as yet. I would like to begin my contribution by talking about “bobol”. “Bobol” is a word that is indigenous to Trinidad and Tobago. “In bobol” is defined in the Trinidad and Tobago Dictionary Cote Say Cote La as: “Several persons involved in scheme and covering for each other. Financial scandal.” In the dictionary of Caribbean English Usage the word is defined as “fraud and corrupt practices, usually on some scale by well-placed persons in authority in a company or in governmental administration”. To be “in bobol” or to “make bobol” is to be profitably involved in a network of fraud, usually of a company or government official in collusion with others—[Interruption] In the Dictionary of the English/Creole of Trinidad and Tobago, a descriptive dictionary reporting the reality of our language, the following example is given to illustrate the use and meaning of the word: “You hear me talking about this new Dam they build. If you know how much grease-hand and boboll pass there.” “Yeh, ah hear e have ah big house wit’ swimmin’ pool an’ e have 4 big cars…” “So wot business he in?” “Bobol!” Trinidad and Tobago has been described as a land of “bobol”. Indeed, “bobol” and corruption are like a cancer causing social and economic injustice and discontent. Today, however, we actually have a chance to do something about this. [Desk thumping] And that is why I believe this Bill is one of the most important pieces of legislation we will ever have the privilege of debating. [Desk thumping] This Bill, as we have heard, has been many, many years in the making. It has occasioned considerable interest, both nationally and internationally, it has also triggered much debate, even controversy. This is landmark legislation. [Desk thumping] This is a real game changer. Before getting into the substantive aspects, however, I think I should disclose that I have had a long involvement with both the Chamber of Commerce and the AmCham. My law firm is a member of both organizations and I have served on 132 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. VIEIRA] committees in both organizations for many years. I am also quite friendly with Mr. Afra Raymond and Mr. Winston Riley and a number of other persons in the civil society grouping. We exchange ideas occasionally on matters of interest and we have certainly spoken quite often about stemming the practice of corruption through procurement legislation. I should also say that notwithstanding its many positive aspects, I was somewhat inclined towards opposing the previous incarnation of this Bill because of the way clause 7(2) had been cast. Happily, in light of the agreed amendments, that is no longer in contention. 7.00 p.m. I turn now to the Bill. I think perhaps with a view to underscoring the importance and the need for a proper procurement regime, and perhaps a deeper significance of this legislation, I would like to share two quotes. The first comes from Astronaut John Glenn, who mused: “As I hurtled through space, one thought kept crossing my mind: Every part of this”—rocket has been—“supplied by the lowest bidder.”[Laughter] This I believe demonstrates the importance of getting value for money, and how the outcome of a procurement process can at times be a matter of life and death. If the rocket’s electrical wiring system was like the wiring at NAPA, I do not think he was making it back to earth. My second quote comes from economists, Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson, in their seminal work, “Why Nations Fail”. They explained that—and this is a long quote, but it is an important quote: “As institutions influence behavior and incentives in real life, they forge the success or failure of nations. Individual talent matters at every level of society, but even that needs an institutional framework to transform it into a positive force.”—Entrepreneurs like—“Bill Gates…Paul Allen”—and—“Steve Jobs…had immense talent and ambition. But…ultimately”—they— “responded to incentives. The schooling system in the United States enabled Gates and others like him to acquire a unique set of skills to complement their talents. The economic institutions in the United States enabled these men to start companies with ease, without facing insurmountable barriers. Those institutions also made the financing of their projects feasible. The U.S. labor markets enabled them to hire qualified personnel, and the relatively competitive market environment enabled them to expand their companies and 133 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

market·their products. These entrepreneurs were confident from the beginning that their dream projects could be implemented: they trusted the institutions and the rule of law that these generated and they did not worry about the security of their property rights. Finally, the political institutions ensured stability and continuity. For one thing, they made sure that there was no risk of a dictator taking power and changing the rules of the game, expropriating their wealth, imprisoning them, or threatening their lives and livelihoods. They also made sure that no particular interest in society could warp the government in an economically disastrous direction, because political power was both limited and distributed sufficiently broadly that a set of economic institutions that created the incentives for prosperity could emerge.” Acemoglu and Robinson have marshalled convincing evidence that economic institutions are critical for determining whether a country is poor or prosperous. They convincingly demonstrate that it is man-made political and economic institutions that underlie a country’s economic success or the lack of it. Institutions are the key differentiator between rich and poor nations, and where institutions enforce property rights, create a level playing field and encourage investments in new technologies and skills, they are more conducive to economic growth. So, Mr. President, countries thrive when they build political and economic institutions that unleash, empower and protect the full potential of each citizen to innovate, invest and develop. Institutions are fundamental to the economics of poverty and prosperity. They determine the ability of citizens to control politicians and to influence how they behave. This in turn, determines whether politicians are agents of the citizens or are able to abuse the power entrusted to them to amass their own fortunes and to pursue their own agendas, ones detrimental to those of the citizens. Institutions have the tangible effect on the success or failure of nations. So, Trinidad and Tobago’s future therefore, will to a large degree, rest on the foundation of our institutions. Institutions such as this Parliament, our law courts and the proposed office of procurement regulation will shape the difference between us failing or doing well. On the one hand, there are, as described in the book, “extractive institutions”, where powerful elites rig the rules to grab control and to benefit themselves at the expense of the many. Such institutions are designed to enable the narrow elite to serve their own interest and prevail over the mass of the population. While on the other hand, there are “inclusive institutions” based on constraints on the exercise of power and on a pluralistic distribution of 134 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. VIEIRA] resources and opportunities enshrined in the rule of law. Such institutions are designed to make Government accountable and responsive. They promote a broad distribution of rights and allow the great mass of people to take advantage of the country’s economic opportunities. So in treating with this Bill, I respectfully suggest that we may want to look at it through the prism of institutional building. We need to consider whether we are laying a foundation for something that will shape the incentives of businesses and citizens to innovate, invest and work hard, something that can make a difference, whether people trust each other and are able to cooperate, something that will ensure stability and continuity. We need to consider whether dismantling the Central Tenders Board and replacing it with the office of procurement regulation is just cosmetics and a change of name. Worse, is it possible that we are being beguiled by clever persons to do away with the Central Tenders Board regime so that the way will be clear for them to recreate a system designed to concentrate power and opportunity in the hands of special interests and elites with a view to plunder? Bluntly stated, it now falls to this Senate, to determine whether we are creating an extractive institution which will empower and enrich a few at the expense of many or whether we are, in fact, creating an inclusive institution which will empower a broad section of society, encourage civic participation and which is best for economic growth. And that is what I shall now seek to address. The first question I think to consider is: what does this legislation bring to the table? What is the value added? In answering this, I would say, first and foremost, that it needs to be recognised, we can no longer continue operating under the current Central Tenders Board regime. That system is deeply flawed, it is overly prescriptive, it is bureaucratic and procedural, and it is seriously outdated. This is legislation in keeping with our times and in keeping with our circumstances. It can accommodate the flexibility and needs of a sophisticated marketplace, and it is forward looking. The second point which I think needs to be recognised is that, as custodians of public resources and responsible for the public good, Government in its dealings with citizens should meet or exceed the same high standard of conduct that is expected of private sector entities. Indeed, there is considerable judicial authority supporting this principle. In Olmstead v the United States, a 1928 case in the United States, a case about Government officers illegally tapping telephones, this is what Justice Brandeis said in his dissenting judgment: 135 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

“Decency, security and liberty alike demand that Government officials shall be subjected to the same rules of conduct that are commands to the citizen. In a government of laws, existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy.” End of quote. This Bill recognises that the Minister, public bodies and State-controlled enterprises are under special duties when exercising their unique powers over citizens through the public procurement regime. Under the proposed legislation, there can be no doubt, that where a public body exercises powers in respect of procurement and the disposal of public property, public officials will be expected to exercise such powers in keeping with the principles of accountability, integrity, transparency, value for money, fairness and equity as spelt out at clause 5. One of the overarching aspects of this Bill therefore, is that it is principles- oriented, and that makes it both fluid and dynamic. Another overarching aspect of this Bill, is that it sets out a statutory framework with effective mechanisms to ensure that the principles of good governance will apply across the board. I think it may be helpful to highlight some of the key provisions in this regard. The Bill provides for the establishment of the office of procurement regulation and the appointment of a procurement regulator. Critically, this will be an independent investigative and enforcement authority. The Bill provides for Parliament’s scrutiny. Under the legislation, the regulator is required to submit annual and special reports to Parliament, and these would be subject to the oversight of a Joint Select Committee. Clause 13(2)(b), I think is particularly noteworthy. And that clause says: “In the exercise of its functions, the Office shall— (b) not be subject to the direction or control of any other person or authority...but shall be accountable to the Parliament.” So independence is assured. The Bill guards against impropriety in procurement proceedings through the setting up of an effective review and remedial system. Under this system, any procurement agreement which is found not to have been carried out in accordance 136 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. VIEIRA] with the legislation, automatically becomes null and void and will also be illegal. Any contractor who submits false qualifications or false information, will also face automatic disqualification. Abnormally low tenders, giving rise to concerns about performance, will face review and potential rejection. As was considered by Astronaut John Glenn: “lowest price is not always best if it means an unsafe vehicle or structure”. Transparency, another important feature, transparency is encouraged through the requirement for a database, whereby suppliers and contractors can submit information with respect to their qualifications and experience. This database will be accessible for viewing by the public. Transparency is further assured by the requirement for all public procurement contracts and awards to be publicized and made public. The regulator has also been provided with a very potent arsenal. This is not a toothless guard dog office. The office can initiate and conduct investigations; the office can require the production of books, records and documents and can call for information; the office can prohibit procuring entities from making any decision or acting in any way that is not in compliance with the legislation. 7.15 p.m. The office can require an entity to act or to proceed in a manner that is in compliance with the legislation. The office can overturn contracts, terminate procurement proceedings, order the payment of compensation and take such other action as it considers appropriate in the particular circumstances. These are powerful remedies, and what is good about these remedies is that they afford a timely, flexible and facilitative approach in allowing the regulator to do justice in the varying circumstances. They also avoid the uncertainty and expense inherent in applying for judicial review, particularly bearing in mind decisions to the effect that Government procurement cases are generally considered an exception to the general principles governing judicial review—the famous NH International case, Stollmeyer’s decision—and that in such cases the public law remedy can only be available if there is a sufficient public element or flavour in the decision as a result of some policy, statutory underpinning or nexus. So having said that, I get the sense that this legislation is not intended to pre-empt judicial review in appropriate cases, so for example, where it is felt, perhaps, that the regulator or a public body has acted illegally or has acted wrongly or unreasonably in the exercise of powers or duties. But having said that, my learned friend, Sen. Prescott’s observation about clause 52 definitely needs to be taken on board. I think we need to look at the language of that clause. 137 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

In addition to these important administrative remedies within the regulator’s arsenal, the system is fortified even further by a number of criminal enforcement measures. Offences involving collusion, such as bid rigging or improperly seeking to influence procurement proceedings in order to obtain an unfair advantage, carries a fine of up to $5 million and 10 years imprisonment. Altering documents with intent to influence the outcome of procurement proceedings is also a serious offence, carrying a fine of up to $2 million and 7 years imprisonment. Now, I always enjoy listening to Sen. Al-Rawi and I think the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago owe him a huge debt for his contributions in debate and at committee stage, in making good law on the books. I admire and respect my friend’s contributions, but I must respectfully disagree with him when he says that these penalties are disproportionate or constitute excessive criminalization. Earlier in this term in this Parliament we brought legislation aimed at taking repeat offenders off the streets. Today we are looking to bear against white-collar criminals. And when one is dealing with white-collar crime and cartels operating in collusion, the penalties have to be—the penalties must be substantial. [Desk thumping] They must be substantial if they are to be taken seriously, otherwise smart men will discount the criminal enforcement measures as an affordable operational hazard or a business expense. We cannot be blind to the public outrage over rising crime and “bobol”. Corruption is poisoning our society and it is corroding our institutions. Citizens want us to promote respect for the law and to punish those who violate the laws and rules that govern everyday life. Those who violate just laws and are punished should expect little sympathy. Singapore, like Trinidad and Tobago, is a democratic society. Somebody was hailing Singapore earlier. It is based on English law, but you can get into very serious trouble for chewing gum, or for jaywalking or for spitting. Now, that might be considered excessive criminalization, but not this. Mr. President, in my respectful view, it is time for us to get serious and to stop pussyfooting around. [Desk thumping] Get serious about “bobol”and corruption, if we are to rebuild our institutions and progress as a society. I want to turn now to the disposal aspect. As a Member of the Joint Select Committee on Municipal Corporations I have, on many occasions, come across complaints from municipal corporations which are subject to the Central Tenders Board Act, about the length of time they have to wait for the disposal of unserviceable articles resulting in inefficiency, increasing costs for storage, administrative procedures and manpower. Today, available space is at a premium and having to store junk can pose real difficulties and inconvenience. 138 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. VIEIRA] This legislation will empower municipal corporations, and other public bodies, to establish a disposal committee for the purpose of making recommendations on the disposal of unserviceable, obsolete or surplus stores and equipment, articles which have outlived their shelf life or which are no longer economic to maintain. This legislation will empower municipal corporations and other public bodies to replace old, obsolete equipment in a timely manner, thus increasing efficiency and making needed space available. I consider this part of the legislation to be both practical and helpful. It is about time we start uncluttering our public offices and work spaces. One of the most important provisions in the legislation is the inclusion of money spent or committed for future expenditure by a public body in the definition of “public money”. This recognizes that the legacy of our current expenditure is the burden of future generations and it requires Government and public bodies to be strategic and astute in pursuing social and national goals. Indeed, I regard the definitions of “public money” and “public property” as the cornerstones of this legislation. They lay a solid foundation to the effect that public money and public property are held in trust for the benefit of all citizens, both present and future, and as a consequence, public bodies have a sacred duty, and now the legal obligation, to ensure that public money and public property is managed prudently, in an effective, transparent and responsible way in support of the general public interest. Everything else that follows is just process. All in all, this legislation offers a transparent and effective procurement law, setting out the conditions for a level playing field. This legislation can be a remedy to the not-getting-value-for-money syndrome which has been bedevilling us for so long. This new law will empower contractors and competitors to access information and to be able to challenge decisions and actions which are in contravention of the legislation. It will encourage and promote civic participation. I am satisfied that this legislation constitutes inclusive institution-building. I am confident that this new law can serve as an effective counterbalance to the economically and politically powerful, from being able to manipulate, distort and dominate the public procurement process. I believe that today in this honourable Chamber, we have a chance to implement meaningful change. [Desk thumping] As to my concerns and suggestions for improvement, I agree with Sen. Al-Rawi that a number of clauses in the Bill require tightening and fine-tuning and I share with him misgivings regarding the use of the word “shall” as used throughout the Bill. Indeed, the author of the text, Thonton’s Legislative Drafting, recognizes that “shall” is a verbal auxiliary capable of performing two separate 139 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 functions, and that is why it is one of the most ambiguous terms in legislative drafting. They suggest it is preferable to use “must” instead of “shall” to impose an obligation, and when the obligation is of an administrative character, the phrase “is required to” or “is to” is preferable. But these are matters of drafting style and in my view they are neither fatal nor insurmountable as to the efficacy of the proposed legislation. In any event, I believe we can take the necessary corrective action at committee stage. While I support the office having power to obtain information and documents, I do not like the way the power to enter premises and to conduct searches has been drafted at clause 43, but I will say more about that at the committee stage. E-procurement at clause 38, I do not see the need for the word “all”. It says: “Notwithstanding any other law, for carrying out the purposes of this Act, all public procurement under this Act…” Just say, “public procurement under this Act may be undertaken”. “All” gives it a different spin. Then the bit where—is it 38(3)? Yes: “The Minister may make Regulations to give effect to the provisions of this section.” I do not know if this was a drafting oversight, but if you look at clause 62, it says: “The Minister may, on the recommendation of the Office, make Regulations to give effect of the provisions of this Act...” So I think, even if it is just for consistency sake, clause 38(3) should be amended to include the words, “on the recommendation of the Office”, otherwise it may imply that the Parliament specifically intended that the Minister would have sole power and discretion to make regulations in respect of e-procurement, and I do not think that is what is intended. Sen. Al-Rawi’s warning about the legislation having to dovetail with other laws is also a point I was going to make and it is something we definitely need to be mindful of. Such laws include the Equal Opportunity Act, the Electronic Transactions Act, the Data Protection Act, Fair Trading Act, Proceeds of Crime Act, Financial Obligations Regulations and the Exchequer and Audit Act and the Financial Regulations to the Exchequer and Audit Act. I think Government “Standard Procurement Procedures for the Acquisition of Goods, Provision of Services, Undertaking Works and Disposal of Unserviceable Items in State Enterprises/Statutory Bodies (State Agencies)” as set out in the 140 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. VIEIRA] Ministry of Finance and the Economy’s State Enterprises Performance Monitoring Manual, will also have to be updated and aligned with such guidelines and handbooks as the regulator may issue pursuant to clause 30 of the Bill. I agree with Sen. Prescott’s observation regarding the definition of bid rigging, in particular, as it limits the offence to parties in procurement proceedings. In a recent ruling of the general court of the European Union, AC- Treuhand AG, it was affirmed that enterprises which facilitate a cartel could always be punished. The offender did not have to be directly involved in the production or distribution of the goods concerned. Any undertaking, knowingly engaging in a cartel, should incur liability. So, accordingly I would suggest—and at committee stage we could take it up—that there should be an amendment to the definition of bid rigging. I was very taken with Sen. Dr. Balgobin’s perspective on value for money and the need for forward looking value for money audits, as opposed to the traditional audit process which tends to be historical in nature. Now this is not my area of expertise, but it seems to me that being able to identify whether or not there is value for money is really a matter of accountability which would fall under the purview of the office of procurement regulation in carrying out its functions, in particular when providing best practice advice on the aggregation of the procurement or disposal of goods for the purpose of obtaining best value, as set out at clause 13(1)(s). So in other words, I do not think it is necessarily something that we should concretize in the Bill but is something that ought, perhaps, best be left to the regulator in prescribing his tendering procedures and contractual arrangements. I expect the office will ensure that value for money will be linked to proper performance and the efficient use of public money. 7.30 p.m. Given the gravitas of the office of procurement regulator and the need for safeguards against political interference, I think he should have security of tenure along the lines of section 136 of the Constitution. Now I am not suggesting that we amend the Constitution, but that we extend clause 12. I also agree with those Senators who have suggested that the procurement regulator’s term of appointment should be for at least seven years, and that the terms of the other office holders should be staggered for institutional memory. In terms of financing the office—and we heard today a number of Senators talking about, you know, they not having the same faith as what is happening with the Integrity Commission and other bodies that are under-financed. In terms of 141 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 financing the office so that it is also seen to be free from political control, I tend to favour the Caribbean Court of Justice model where a trust fund has been established to ensure the court’s judicial and financial independence and I commend this as a model for consideration. In any event, we were recently here debating the Nurses and Midwives Registration Act, and in that Act you would recall we looked at the section which said: “52(1) Any moneys payable upon a summary conviction under this Act shall be paid into the Court, which shall cause the sums to be paid to the Secretary on behalf of the Council. (2) All other moneys payable under this Act, whether by…fees, fines or otherwise, shall be paid to the Council to be used for carrying the purposes of this Act into effect.” Well I think such provisions could go a long way towards making the office self- financing. I recommend that the procurement regulator and members of the office of procurement regulation should be insulated and excepted from personal liability for any acts or omissions, or matters and things done by them in good faith in the course of the operations of the office under the legislation. This is typical in a lot of these bodies where we set up boards and councils, and I think it would be an important provision to have in this Act. I also have a concern that the regulations are subject to negative resolution. This is under 62(3): “Regulations made under this section shall be subject to negative resolution of Parliament.” Now the other day we were, again, in the Nurses and Midwives Registration Act and that Act indicated that there were going to be regulations coming down the pipeline, and those regulations were subject to affirmative resolution and I asked, I said, “Why have affirmative resolution for something that the council could prescribe?” But everybody felt, no, this was important. Bring it to Parliament. Let Parliament scrutinize it. Well these regulations, I think are a hundred times more important than the Nurses and Midwives Regulations, and yet we want to put them to negative resolution. So I would respectfully suggest that that clause be amended and that the regulations should be subject to affirmative resolution. It is my hope that the procurement regulator will waste no time in making regulations to give effect to the provisions of this legislation in establishing the central depository database and in issuing guidelines and handbooks, and dare we 142 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. VIEIRA] hope that public procurement in relation to legal consultants and external legal services will also fall under the watchful eye and control of the regulator? I am concerned that while we may be successful in updating the law, we may have less success when it comes to changing entrenched habits and culture. Lawyers in their desire to effect good law can unfairly be viewed as being pedantic. In terms of absolute and relative importance, however, I think on this occasion, bringing this legislation into force is a greater imperative than the desirability for a perfectly drafted Act. To do otherwise will be to miss the woods because of the trees. We can always amend as and when needed. I think what is of greater moment is to get this law passed. [Desk thumping] I am also mindful that passing this law is just a first step, but we will have a long and challenging road ahead in effectively operationalizing it. My biggest concern, however, is the timeline issue and the possibility that this golden opportunity may slip through our fingers if this Bill is allowed to lapse. As I draw towards my conclusion, let me declare my wholehearted support of this legislation which I believe is long overdue. [Desk thumping] I like the way the Bill is drafted. It is comprehensive and yet there is an economy of language. Differences in drafting style aside, there is a welcome absence of legalese making the document easy for everyone to understand and follow. We are not drafting this for lawyers. We are drafting this for people to follow. It would be remiss of me not to commend the Government [Desk thumping] and, in particular, the Minister of Planning and Sustainable Development, Dr. Tewarie. [Desk thumping] I commend him for his tenacity, for his patience and flexibility and willingness to move away from the old style, political absolutism, the old style entrenched positional bargaining in favour of balance, consensus and buy-in with the private sector and civil society groups. [Desk thumping] I believe that in bringing this legislation, Sen. Dr. Tewarie has rendered yeoman service to the people of Trinidad and Tobago, [Desk thumping] and for this we must heartily thank him and congratulate him. [Desk thumping] In my respectful view, besides the impact of this Bill itself, the events leading up to and culminating in its presentation are in and of themselves significant and historic. I regard the coming together of the various civil society groups into a broad coalition, the way they engaged in lively and passionate debate with Government., from what was originally a position of total opposition, to one now of general support and broad agreement I see that as noteworthy, an important achievement in the evolution of our country’s politics. [Desk thumping] 143 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

I really like this legislation even with all its flaws and imperfections as identified during this debate, and others yet to be discerned. I like this legislation because of what it represents, the hope it offers in the fight against white-collar crime and “bobol”. [Desk thumping] Clearly, a lot of hard work and effort has gone into this. I believe this Bill offers a meaningful step towards the eradication of corruption and cronyism in public procurement, and I share Minister Tewarie’s idealism that it will usher in a new regime of higher ethical conduct in this country. It also offers an opportunity to rebuild trust in our political and economic institutions, a commodity woefully in short supply at present. If it is true that trust in our institutions has collapsed, then it is my hope that even where officials are regarded as untrustworthy, having a system, having a system in which they have to behave in a trustworthy manner in accordance with the principles of accountability, integrity, transparency, value for money, fairness and equity, that will go a long way towards restoring trust and confidence. Mr. President, I thank you. [Desk thumping] Sen. Foster Cummings: Mr. President, I thank you for the opportunity [Desk thumping] to make a contribution on the Bill entitled: an Act to provide for public procurement, and for the retention and disposal of public property in accordance with principles of good governance, namely accountability, transparency, integrity and value for money, the establishment of the office of procurement regulation and the repeal of the Central Tenders Board Act, 71:91, and related matters. Mr. President, we are discussing today public procurement, we are discussing integrity, we are discussing transparency and the way that a government should conduct itself and public officials should conduct themselves in the conduct of the people’s business, and one of the things about putting legislation like this in place is that the people must trust that this legislation will be implemented and that it will be enforced in a way that people can have confidence in the Government and how they do their business. [Crosstalk] Earlier in the debate we had a history lesson given to us by Sen. Hadeed, and we listened well to this contribution, and the only thing about that history lesson is that it missed out significant years, significant gaps in this history lesson that we received earlier today. [Crosstalk] And so, I am going to utilize a few minutes of my contribution just to fill in some of the gaps, Mr. President. 144 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. CUMMINGS] I want to refer to an article written by Asha Javeed of the Trinidad Express and, Mr. President, this article deals with one example of how certain officials in the Government conduct their business, and I will read a few paragraphs of the article. “A top financier of the People’s Partnership administration has been awarded a $232.5 million contract by the National Insurance Property Development… (Nipdec). It is not the first contract that the Krishna Lalla-owned company,…(SIS), has received from the People’s Partnership...” Sen. G. Singh: What date is that? Sen. F. Cummings: This is dated January 26, 2013. At that time the article says: “…it is the most lucrative”—contract received—“to date. On November 27 last year, Nipdec’s company secretary wrote to SIS manager…Hosein, informing the company that Nipdec had agreed to award $232…”—million—“contract to SIS and its Barbados-based precasting partner, Preconco, for the design-build construction of the Motor Vehicle Authority…”—at—“Frederick Settlement,....” The article goes on to say that the: “SIS…contractor linked to the completion of…”—a home somewhere in the Philippines and another home somewhere in Mount St. George Tobago, that this contractor was also awarded a contract to build—“the $45 million Siparia Market…the $70 million Couva/Preysal Interchange..,”—and is also a beneficiary of several contracts under the PURE programme—“awarded by Nipdec on behalf of the Ministry of Works.” What is further interesting about this article as it goes on to say: “The Sunday Express learned SIS did not commit to a ten per cent contingency fee in its total cost for the project, which was $232…million. That ten per cent…works out to be $27 million”—according to this article and—“would have taken the”—total cost of the project—“to $259 million, which would have made it the most expensive proposal.” So that, in one move, this contractor left out the contingency in the bid and, by virtue of that, their bid was considered the lowest. But if the contingency, which all the other contractors put in their bid, was placed with this contractor’s bid, it 145 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 would have been the highest bid, and SIS went on to be granted this tender. Very poor procurement practice is the relevance of this item that I am raising. Very poor. [Desk thumping] Very poor and possibly could be considered—[Crosstalk] 7.45 p.m. Mr. President, I would continue now to raise another matter that involves the same contractor and I refer to an article written by Ria Taitt, March 12, 2014: “Opposition Leader Dr. Keith Rowley has made good on his promise to write to President…on the billion-dollar water recycling plant contract awarded to a consortium led by…(SIS).” SIS, Mr. President. “In a letter dated March 10, Rowley urged Carmona to ‘investigate and call upon the Prime Minister…to explain the circumstances and award by National Gas Company/WASA of a contract for the Design and Build, Operation and Maintenance of the Beetham Water Recycling Plant together with the associated pipelines and water storage facilities to SIS on Carnival Friday…’” The article goes on to say that SIS bid: “…was in the amount of US$167 million or TT$1,068,800,000.…He was advised the engineer’s estimate was originally set at US$130 million, but was raised to US$137 million or TT $876,800,000.” Mr. President, another case of bad procurement practices and possibly bid rigging because, in this instance, as the article continues to say here, 14 contractors were invited to bid on this project, that the period of tender was so short that it did not allow for 12 of those contractors to submit a bid, leaving SIS and one other contractor to submit a bid for this project, and at the end of the day, you can be sure that the result was: the contract was awarded to SIS. As we continue to observe because, you see, one of the things that the country continues to look at because there is a feeling that all people have to say is, “It was not me”. Hon. Senator: “It wasn’t me” like Shaggy. Sen. F. Cummings: “It wasn’t me” and the issue will go away but Trinidad and Tobago is paying very close attention to all these irregularities that the Senator did not speak of at all. No mention of, for instance, matters at the National Quarries; no mention at all. No mention of what took place at the National Quarries where two pieces of equipment purchased with State funds and 146 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. CUMMINGS] one piece of equipment ends up on a project of a private contractor who has close links to the leader of Government in this country. And certainly, no mention earlier on of how Gopaul and sons trucking limited came into control of the Scott’s Quarry. No mention of that at all! But, certainly, he went back to 1968, long before a lot of persons on this Bench were even thought of and he told us about O’Halloran and a lot of people—a lot of deceased persons, “buh we talkin’ about real live Gopaul here and real live Lalla here”. [Desk thumping] Live SIS. Mr. President, another instance here and I am referring now to an article by Camini Marajh, and this article is dated May 28 and the article goes on to say— [Interruption] Sen. Ramnarine: That is tomorrow. [Laughter] Sen. F. Cummings: 2011. “On two of the four criteria used by the management of the State-owned National Petroleum Marketing Company (NP) to assess the eligibility of the bids submitted in a $40 million cab-over-engine-design tractor deal, CDS Transport Ltd was way ahead of its closest rival and the winning bidder, Gopaul and Co Ltd.”—again. So, it is as though the favoured contractors, even though their bids are way above everybody else’s, somehow the contract ends up being awarded to the favourite contractor. We would hope that this legislation, that we are discussing and debating here this evening, would move towards allowing this Government to conduct their business in a way that allows for best value for the people of Trinidad and Tobago. [Desk thumping] You have to ask the question: why would the Government want to award contracts to contractors whose prices are way above all the other bidders? That is the question. Why, if people pre-qualified for the job and were allowed to bid, would the Government want to spend millions of dollars more and in every case you recognize that the contractors are the same—in every case? Another article: “Discrepancy in award of…contract”—at T&TEC. And again, the prices are always very much higher than the engineers’ estimate. But this one, I like particularly because I am from central Trinidad so I have a fair idea of land value in central Trinidad. I have one or two little lots of land and I am hoping that somewhere along the line, I would be able to get my land in 147 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 central sold for prices like this. In this case, a parcel of land comprising 50 acres at Eden Gardens in Calcutta, Freeport—very nice area—which was previously sold for $5 million. Sen. Al-Rawi: Two million. I saw the deed, a Roopchan Chadeesingh deed. Sen. F. Cummings: Is $2 million? My God, it gets worse. A reputable valuator, Linden Scott and Associates had valued this property for $52 million as developed and in discussions with the HDC—let me read part of the article. This article is quoting the goodly Sen. Al-Rawi who always has his facts on par. He reported that there was an offer for sale dated January 20, 2012 from Point Lisas Park Limited to HDC Managing Director, Jearlean John. There was a request by her for a valuation by the Commissioner of Valuations. He quoted from a letter by the commissioner dated March 06 in which he expressed his view that the valuation by Linden Scott and Associates was overstated, given the current state of development. Mr. President, subsequent to this new valuation that was done, do you know that HDC bought this parcel of land, not for $52 million but for $180 million? That puts the price per acre in Calcutta, Freeport at $3.6 million per acre. I wonder where was the transparency in this transaction. Where in Calcutta, Freeport, which is an area I am very familiar with, would you get land selling at $3.6 million an acre? Somebody certainly got a very sweetheart deal and it is things like these that the Government has questions to answer about. Why is there such wastage of the people’s money? And when the questions are asked, it is “sweep it under the carpet”; “it was not me”; “let us move on from this”; and that is the kind of statements you hear coming from the Government side. So that when this other issue broke recently, I was quite taken aback that two Government Ministers were very vocal, and I suspect they might be called to answer some questions about why they would have made such public statements about a programme called the LifeSport programme. Two Ministers: the Minister of National Security and the Minister of Finance and the Economy who seems to be doing a lot of investigations, that means the Ministry of Finance and the Economy now, the Audit Department seems to be overworked because they have so many investigations to do, by having to investigate decisions of State Enterprises and other Government Ministries and the way that they perform and conduct the procurement and spend the people’s money. Hear what this article says as far as the Minister of National Security, who was asked by the Sunday Express to explain how the profits from the LifeSport programme were used: 148 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. CUMMINGS] “‘The LifeSport…is one of the major things which has affected us,’…” This statement attributed to the Minister of National Security. “…he said on the country’s security apparatus to control crime. ‘Most of the criminal activities, the gangs work on is the profit they get from these State contracts.’” State contracts given to gangs. “‘So they use their profits. The funds they get, they use to pay their gang members, they pay police officers’…” This is not a layman saying this, you know, this is the Minister of National Security telling Trinidad and Tobago that the Government, to which he belongs, has been giving contracts to gang members and these gang members have been using the profit from these State contracts to fund their gang activities and to pay police officers. Sen. Al-Rawi: “Nah, who say that?” Sen. F. Cummings: The Minister of National Security. We have to believe him because he would have much more current information than is available o us, and this is really a matter of great and grave concern. How can this Government really sit and allow us to believe that they are serious about procurement? Mr. President: “In the Auditor General’s 2013 report, it noted”—that—“several financial irregularities in the Ministry of Sport and in the LifeSport Programme:” And some of these irregularities: “1. Three invoices of equal amounts totaling $259,350 for catering of meals for the LifeSport Programme in three different areas-Marabella, Morvant and Bagatelle did not reflect any business address or telephone contact for the supplier.” Invisible. 8.00 p.m. “From a review of one month’s payments under the LifeSport Programme, 59 participants who were seen to have been paid stipends totalling $88,500 for St. Joseph”—hear this one—“were also seen to have been paid $88,500 for Maloney.” The very same participants, two different districts, the same quantum of money, 149 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

“Mr. President. In addition, a further amount of $76,500 was paid to 51 participants from Maloney. Also, payments for six participants in the Maraval area were made to the same bank account. The report noted that analysis of the internal audit programme for work for the year revealed that high-risk areas such as the LifeSport were not included for review”. Mr. President, what we see is item after item, where several spanning across several Government Ministries, spanning across several state companies, where there seems to have been an abandonment of any proper tendering procedures. Contractors in this country are complaining that they are unable to secure Government contracts, because no matter where they place in the ranking of the evaluation committee, contracts continued to be awarded to favoured contractors of the Government, and that is cause for serious concern. If you go way back to when this Government was elected, the programme called CEPEP, where at one time there were approximately 150 contractors, Mr. President, every contractor in the programme at that time—fired by this Government. The programme doubled to over 300 contractors and not one newspaper advertisement advertising for contactors to be engaged. Not a single ad! And when the Minister was questioned as to how these contracts could have been awarded without process, the Minister responsible said that these contracts were given out on a temporary basis to deal with the flooding problem, and that was four years ago. So it is a flood [Interruption] that has not stopped from 2010 to now, Mr. President, these temporary contractors continued and have now become permanent contractors, and no public tendering whatsoever. That is governance PP style. That is governance according to the UNC. [Desk thumping] [Interruption] And then we—as I am talking about CEPEP and you tickled me on that side. I see an article here where a contactor using CEPEP workers “to clean châtaigne”. Hon. Senator: What! Sen. F. Cummings: Yes, “châtaigne”, [Crosstalk] to clean “châtaigne”—this is reported in the Express again. Sen. G. Singh: What date? Sen. F. Cummings: I will give you a copy. Sen. G. Singh: What date? 150 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. F. Cummings: I will give you a copy afterwards. Contactor allegedly using workers for “cleaning…yards…powering…washing walls”—[Interruption] story is April 13, 2013—using workers for “‘servant work’ by cleaning the yards, [Interruption] power washing the walls, and cleaning châtaigne”. Mr. President, and when you raise issues, the Government says it is not me, the picture just resembles me, it is not looking like me, sweep it under the carpet, let us move on, let us move to a new issue—[Interruption] Sen. Al-Rawi: Misstep! Sen. F. Cummings:—let us—misstep after misstep by this Government, Mr. President. And the country wonders whether it can trust this Government, when this Government speaks about procurement legislation. Because really, one of the earlier speakers, while not on his feet did say, that the legislation is here in order to achieve the objective—[Interruption] Sen. Al-Rawi: Manifesto. Sen. F. Cummings:—of the manifesto, because as we approach election, the Government wants to make sure that you can tick the box, and say we have achieved this, we have achieved that, we have achieved passing procurement legislation which was not done for so many years. But as it is said, that passing of this legislation is not going to take away all the missteps that we have, [Interruption] all the instances of missteps, all the instances of missteps by the URP Programme, that Sen. Avinash Singh spoke of earlier, Mr. President. No matter how much they try to play squeaky clean, the fact is that the evidence is clear, this Government just continues to ignore procurement practices in Trinidad and Tobago. [Desk thumping] And, Mr. President, I understand that in the URP Programme, contracts are being awarded non-stop, that the Minister concerned or the Ministers concerned—because I understand that URP has approximately three Ministers that they report to. Each Ministry having their own budget, or their own part of the URP budget, and contracts are being awarded without process. You can go to the Minister’s office on a Saturday when the Minister is seeing the public, and if you are a friend of the party, a friend of the Government, you can leave the office being assured that you will be granted a contract. Sen. Maharaj: Mr. President, 35(5), inciting that a Minister’s office, one of the Minister involved narrowed down to three persons—that you go if you are a friend of the party and you get a contact. [Crosstalk] 151 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Mr. President: You are not entitled to bring the conduct of Ministers into question, except by substantive Motion, of course. Sen. F. Cummings: I am guided, Mr. President, but all I said [Interruption] was that—and I will say senior officials of the Ministry are granting contracts without tender, without any procedures, senior officials, millions of dollars, breaking up of contacts so that they can fall under the authority of the PS, contrary to the clause in the Bill that speaks about breaking up of contacts. And therefore, Mr. President, I want to call for an investigation, a full-scale investigation [Desk thumping] into the conduct of the Unemployment Relief Programme. And I call on the Minister of Finance and the Economy again, to ensure that the URP Programme is investigated, to see whether there has been any breach or any criminal offences being conducted at that programme. We call on them now to conduct an investigation. Mr. President, it is the hope of Members on this side, it is the hope of the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago that this Government will take the people’s business seriously. It is not good enough to say that the matter is two years old. It is not good enough to say that the matter occurred in 2010, and that now you want to come as though everybody is squeaky clean. The country demands good Government, the country demands good governance. It is the hope that this piece of legislation will be taken seriously by this Government, and that we will see a new type of behaviour on the part of the PP Government, and that all these matters that remain, some of them involving serious criminal conduct, will be investigated by the relevant authorities, and that we will move on to a place where the moneys of the people of Trinidad and Tobago are spent in a way, that brings good value to the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago. I thank you, Mr. President. [Desk thumping] Sen. David Small: [Desk thumping] Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Bill. Mr. President, by your leave and with your permission, I just wish to divert shortly just to say that I know that the hon. Minister with responsibility for Tertiary Education and Skills Training, was not present earlier today, but he was presiding at the opening of yet another institute that gives the young people in the country an opportunity to make the most of themselves. [Desk thumping] I think that while we are here to talk about procurement, I think procuring a positive future for the youth of our nation is one of the most important things that we should be trying to achieve. [Desk thumping] I thank you, Mr. President, for giving me the opportunity to say that. 152 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SMALL] Mr. President, we are here to talk about procurement and the Bill before us. I want to place on record my view that this legislation is long overdue. The fact that it is now before us today, points to the Government’s clear attempts to deal with some or all of the shortcomings in the current public procurement arrangement. The fact that the Bill is here, it is before us, it is real. And, you know, I want to take a quote from Fulton J. Sheen from a book entitled Seven Words of Jesus and Mary: Lessons from Cana and Calvary. And I quote: “Criticism of others is thus an oblique form of self-commendation. We think we make the picture hang straight on our wall by telling our neighbors that all his pictures are crooked.” [Laughter and crosstalk]

I believe I have always held a position, Mr. President, that we will always strive to do the best we can with the legislation in front of us, but I will always be one of those to say that I am willing to accept a 70/80 per cent solution, because I believe it is impossible to get anything right the way we are going. There will always be things that need to be fixed afterwards, but where we are, with the constant—I think there was a whole history lesson today, Mr. President, about various issues of corruption, and as my colleague, Sen. Vieira, talked about “bobol”, they have marred the history of Trinidad and Tobago, and yet no one has brought legislation to deal with it. Well, here is what, you cannot accuse the current administration of not dealing with it. The legislation is in front of you. [Desk thumping] So it probably is not perfect, there are things that need to be fixed, and I have several suggestions, but I believe the fact that it is here says something, and it is up to us in this House, [Desk thumping] to do what the man in the street is expecting us to do. So the history of public procurement in Trinidad and Tobago has seen the questioning of many and several transactions that have come into question in the public domain. My concern always tends to be getting an understanding of the universe of transaction that we deemed as suspect. In my view, it is very likely that those made public so far, represent the minority. There are several things that are going on that we are just not hearing about. You only hear about a few of those that come into the public domain. Establishing a system that provides more accurate and comprehensive information about the Government’s largest spending process, therefore, is key to improving the quality of government services, better allocation of resources, and providing greater value for taxpayers’ money. 153 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

In several studies over the years, the World Bank has noted that in many countries a significant portion of the national budget is procurement related. In this situation, an efficient public procurement system would be critical in ensuring value for money in Government expenditure, which would aid in maintaining public trust, in the prudency of the management of public funds. In examining the Draft Estimates of Expenditure for the fiscal year 2013/2014, the total estimated expenditure on goods and services and minor equipment purchases, give a total of just about $8.75 billion. When you add the estimated expenditure of $8 billion for 2013/2014 development programme, you gain an appreciation for the size of the Government procurement pie. In addition, the procurement budget of all the various state entities run into multiple billions of dollars on an annual basis. So, Mr. President, what we are talking about here, we need to quantify and understand what we are talking about. We are talking about over $20 billion a year in Government—for the state procurement. It is a massive, massive opportunity for malfeasance. Mr. President, political commitment is a necessary condition for procurement reforms to curb corruption. Without political will, and commitment by the leadership of the country, grand corruption is perpetuated at an alarming rate, with petty corruption becoming endemic and virtually impossible to stop. It is thus obvious that the battle against corruption should begin with strong political will and explicit commitment to eradicate all of its manifestations. 8.15 p.m. Mr. President, a sound public procurement system should aim at achieving the following objectives: First, public confidence as underpinned by attributes of accountability, transparency, equity and fair dealing in relation to procurement processes. Secondly, efficiency and effectiveness of the procurement process to achieve value for money; and Lastly, policy compliance and consistency, both in terms of processes and outcomes of the procurement system. Mr. President, as legislators, we should strive to promote accountability of procurement systems. Public procurement audit and inspection are essential to improve accountability. The proposed legislation will see the establishment of mechanisms for systematically assessing the performance of procuring entities with a view towards ensuring compliance to set procurement rules and procedures. 154 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SMALL] While no system may be perfect, we have to understand that public procurement in Trinidad and Tobago needs reform and, perhaps, as we have seen in other places, using methods such as e-procurement allows for us to be able— while there may be challenges with e-procurement, one of the things with e- procurement, it allows for 100 per cent auditing. That is something that is an advantage. It is not only negatives inside of e-procurement. Mr. President, one of my underlying concerns—and it was mentioned by other parties—has to do with the fact that actual enforcement of existing laws remains weak. Addressing the legislative issues without simultaneously strengthening the enforcement structures really makes for an exercise in time wastage. The existing procurement system still faces a myriad of challenges. It would have been useful in preparing to argue the case with this legislation if this Senate could have been provided with estimates of the percentage of the national budget that is lost in procurement related malpractices. To be complete in my overview, we must be mindful of passing legislation that ends up making the execution of public procurement inefficient. This would lead to low budget absorption and hindering of the Government’s development agenda. In reviewing this Bill, I was convinced that a significant effort had been made to address the concerns of various stakeholders and that the appropriate level of rigour was applied at the drafting and review stage to bring a really comprehensive piece of legislation to our attention. It continues to be alleged, Mr. President, that corruption and malfeasance have run amok in the country and I do not wish for the citizens of our country to be able to point accusing fingers in our direction, suggesting that we are fiddling while Rome burns. I think that the Bill before us requires some cleaning up, but I hasten to add that the route it has traversed to be here has made it one of the better pieces of legislation to come across my desk in my short time here as a Member of this House. So, Mr. President, in that view let me just drill down into a few comments and suggestions I have on the actual measures within the Bill and I will be guided by the Minister in his wrapping up whether any of my queries will be dealt with in the ensuing regulations. So I will be guided. I note and support the provisions for the promotion of the use of technology and I really like the audit and investigative review powers because these are hugely significant improvements against what exists now. There is virtually 155 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 nothing now. So that we really need to have, for this to work, there needs to be significant audit and investigative powers. I particularly like the public access to the central depository via electronic means to access this database because it allows for anybody, anywhere, as a citizen or as an investigator to go and understand what is going on within the system. One of the clauses that I am absolutely excited about; I am happy that the hon. Minister of Energy and Energy Affairs is back in the House because clause 27, where it requires the publishing of planned procurement by State entities, finally presents an opportunity to level the playing field. The Minister of Energy and Energy Affairs would be aware that one of the challenges in the energy sector for the companies in the service sector is understanding what is the universe of work that is available, and having companies saying this is what our proposed set of work is for the next year or for the next three years allows service providers to be able to understand what type of work is going to be available for them in the next period. It may not all be firm, but it allows them to have a grasp of the universe of possibilities. As it is now, you sit and you wonder. I note that at clause 34 there is a provision for rejecting abnormally low submissions and I like that provision, but I also think that because of some other experiences that I have had, I know a lot of agencies prepare what they call in- house estimates. It has been my experience—and I have seen it—bidders’ tender prices that tend often to be very close to what is called the in-house estimate. I have seen an in-house estimate for $31 million and the bid comes in at $30.999 million and it is difficult to actually point out the source of the collusion, but the collusion is obvious. There needs to be a mechanism to manage that because while the bid may come in under, it is so close to what is called the in-house estimate, it is clear that somebody in-house provided that estimate to somebody outside and they came in just under to make sure that they got the bid. I have seen that happen in my previous endeavours on more than one occasion. That is just one of the things that I suppose is captured under bid rigging. Hon. Senator: You were not involved though? Sen. D. Small: I was an oversight. That is why I said it is difficult to actually point out the party or parties because you get it and you look at it and you say, “This is not correct”, but you cannot identify anyone and you know collusion has gone on and you cannot do anything about it. 156 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SMALL] I support the issues at clause 40 with whistle-blower protection and I note that there will be an independent appeals process to address complaints from tenderers and I really like that. I hope that in the schedule it deals with also things like our failure to advertise relevant contracts because contracts are sometimes bid and no one knows there is a bid of offer or giving one bidder information that is not given to another. There may be information given to some bidders and it is not given to others and incorrect application of the award criteria or changing of the award criteria after the bids have been submitted to match other bids. I have seen, in my experiences, several variations of this that allow for parties to manipulate and rig the bidding process. These are things that, when the regulator and the Minister review whatever regulations are drafted, these things need to be captured because this is the way in which you actually get around whatever regulations are there. People sit there and they change criteria or they change the weightings depending on what comes in when the bids come in. That requires close management and some experience in tendering and what people do in a bidding process. I do not want to be controversial, but I support in general the provisions at clause 28 that deal with promoting local industry development. I wholeheartedly support initiatives that give indigenous companies a development advantage, but this must be accompanied by robust checks and balances as it relates to capability, experience and especially relations with international partners or suppliers. I ask the question: how do we measure development? Market share, growth and profitability may not necessarily be appropriate markers for industry development in a protected industry scenario. I think competitiveness is very important and I do not think we want to necessarily have local companies that are only competitive in Trinidad and Tobago on the basis of a special provision. I think that is what is important—a good example is that the Trinidad and Tobago energy business is dependent on investors applying funds to opportunities in the country in a situation where they have alternative options for those funds. The Minister of Energy and Energy Affairs will tell you that there were two deep water bid rounds in the past year and a half. One was very successful and one was not so successful and the waters out there have not changed. All that has happened is that investors have looked again and said, “Listen, this looks attractive, this does not”. And what it means is that we have to now go back and do the work to make our offerings more attractive and this is what should be the driver, trying to be more competitive to really earn your way rather than be cuddled along the way. There needs to be a fine balance about supporting local industry, but also putting things in there to make sure that they are really and truly competitive. 157 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

If my learned colleague, Dr. Mahabir, were here—and he is sorely missed; very, very much missed; but for those who are not aware, my colleague, Dr. Mahabir, is a distinguished visiting professor at Mc Gill University doing some wonderful work outside of Trinidad and Tobago, representing Trinidad and Tobago. He would support me in saying that we have sectors of the economy in Trinidad and Tobago that are dominated by monopolies or oligopolies and I am sure that he would concur that these have a severe tendency to militate against competitiveness, innovation and ultimately customer choice and satisfaction. So there needs to be a full understanding of what we are trying to do. I think that the way the clause is worded, the intention is noble, but there needs to be some safeguard because we do not, in my mind, want to create a system, a place where we are protecting companies here and those companies are not really competitive. They are only competitive on the basis of the special arrangements. Then it is not really sustainable. It is not sustainable. We can talk at the committee stage because I think we need to just change some of those wordings. I looked at also clause 16 on committees. While not explicitly stated, I assumed that the legislation contemplates for the office to co-opt or engage the services of technical experts to advise on matters for which the requisite expertise does not reside within the organization. I am assuming that because I can think of several instances of tenders for issues that would come up for which the technical expertise would simply not reside within the body and they will need to co-opt either from the State or from private technical experts to give them the advice that they need. On committee membership at clause 16(3), I do not agree with this provision. I think that it should be mandatory that any committee should include at least two members of the board, one of whom should be the Chair. I am struggling to understand how a committee of the office could not contain any member of the office and run. I am struggling with that. I think that requires some oversight and I do not think the oversight is there. I saw the provisions about they will proceed with guidance of the office but, for me, the guidance of the office has to be from within. Many Members have talked about the term of office at clause 11(3) and I have—to be clear, where it says that a member can only serve two consecutive terms, I assume that means that they can serve more than two terms if they are non-consecutive. I assume so. If I am incorrect, you will guide me. 158 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. SMALL] And then my issue is particularly at the beginning here where we have now started this organization and then you are potentially having everyone leaving at the end of the first two terms. You have to stagger it. I think that point has been made. I just want to reinforce that. At clause 29, subclauses (6), (7), (8), (9) and (10), I just merely ask: what is the period of disqualification? Is it that the first offence is a year or is this going to come in regulations? I suppose this may come in regulations so that—you talk about disqualification, but there is no period of time so that if there is a first offence, you are disqualified for a year; second for three years. I do not know, but I am assuming that those will come in the regulations. I do not want to beat up on the SRC, but I want to beat up on the SRC. [Laughter] My other major concern is that this new office will have tremendous power of oversight on State contracting across a myriad of agencies. Given the history, I am literally begging for the SRC to not be the party to determine salary levels and terms and conditions. [Desk thumping] It is well past the time for us as legislators to acknowledge the weaknesses in the SRC process and that in the spirit of this far-reaching legislation that the State adopt a more professional, comprehensive and market-based approach to determining terms and conditions for key staff of the office. Given the history of malfeasance in the country and the massive oversight responsibility and the enormous contract value to be monitored, I implore those vested with such authority to ensure that they put proper remuneration for key leadership positions in what will soon be in my mind one of the most influential agencies in the country. 8.30 p.m. While I understand the standard position of the Government, in that the Minister of Finance and the Economy would usually, normally plead through the CPO, that they have an entire system comprising 50,000, 60,000 employees to manage and that setting salaries levels high at one place increases expectations in other places, I posit that the sheer scale of the oversight function, over $20 billion a year makes an excellent case for special consideration. [Desk thumping] Mr. President, when I looked at the various provisions, I am at the stage where mentally this Bill is long overdue. This Bill is needed. We keep hearing from 19-whenever to current day about all sorts of accusations, of all sorts of wrongdoings and I am tired of hearing it. I think we are here now, we understand what has happened: good, right, bad, whatever; for me, what are we going to do to fix it? [Desk thumping] What is the next step? It was someone who was much wiser than myself who quoted: 159 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

“To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.” Aristotle. I want to say that, just like all the other Members, we come here, we have a charter and a responsibility to the people of Trinidad and Tobago. The people of Trinidad and Tobago expect that all of these matters that have continued to be in the public domain, and have bothered countless news houses with all the various types of reporting and all these accusations of malfeasance and wrongdoing in public office, and yet it seems, passing strange, that the legislation to deal with it is struggling to get through the system and the logic does not seem to compute. It does not compute. So that for me where I sit, I think that the legislation has a few things that we could spend a couple of hours in the next sitting cleaning up, but I think that this legislation is needed. It must be passed. It is absolutely critical in moving us forward as a country. You know, I always say that when I come here and I think about all the things that we have been asked to do, we have a responsibility, and it is our responsibility at the end of the day to look at myself in the mirror and say, “Listen, have I made a contribution”. Have we done what we are supposed to do here, which is do a job for the people of Trinidad and Tobago? And in this case, I believe that this legislation is something that we need to do, yesterday rather than today. Let us get together, work together, clean up this Bill and get it passed. Thank you very much, Mr. President. [Desk thumping] Mr. President: Sen. Joy Abdul-Mohan. [Desk thumping] Sen. Rev. Joy Abdul-Mohan: Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. President, I rise to speak on this Bill of public procurement and for the retention and disposal of public property with the understanding, however, as mentioned by many of my colleagues, that not all the i’s have been dotted and not all the t’s have been crossed in preparing this Bill. Suffice it to say, it is a well needed piece of legislation, just as I would have mentioned, regarding campaign financing. However, without being repetitious and mindful that some of us have been here since six o’clock a.m., this morning, and many of us southerners must get home and get some rest. I want to suggest a different slant to the debate, making reference to the United Nations Guiding Principles on Business, Human Rights and Social Responsibility, which were unanimously endorsed, ironically, in May of 2011, and we are in May. Beneath all the legal considerations raised thus far in the debate, I sense that there is a real opportunity through this Bill to uplift the livelihood status of the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago. How are we going to do this? 160 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. REV. ABDUL-MOHAN] I want to suggest through a human rights component, becoming more socially responsible, with a view to developing the human existence both in this country and by extension, of course, the global community. If we are going to be a developed nation with this kind of developed legislation, then we cannot focus only on the legal and financial aspects in a linear fashion. I believe we must open our minds to a greater realm of human possibilities whereby we can impact the reality of people in a real and immediate way. I always ask: How is legislation today going to affect generations of tomorrow? This Bill is an opportunity to move Trinidad forward on human development, both locally and internationally, by introducing what restricts procurement of certain goods and services based on the treatment of human beings worldwide, or discrimination, perhaps more so of our local people. You see, the State through public procurement, has a significant influence on market conditions. I am particularly pleased with the objects of this Bill as seen in clause 5, subclause (1), especially (a), (b) and (c). We have repeated it several times and I want to repeat it again—that is one thing I will repeat, of course: “…in accordance with the principles of good governance, namely accountability, integrity, transparency, and value for money…” I believe this gives political will and has the potential to act as leverage towards an approved situation for all stakeholders involved. I believe this demonstrates the principles of fair competition, non-discrimination and best value for money. To me, fair competition is when suppliers actively control that their production is done legally, securely and decent, and are given a priority to win public contracts over suppliers who do not do so; who do the opposite in other words. Thus, this legislation should help change the mindset of those whose intention may be to do wrong or to cut corners, as it were. Secondly, under clauses 26 and 28, Part III of the Bill, I am aware that we cannot record everything in one document as was mentioned, but because procurement reforms have become necessary in this 21st Century, I believe that we can be guided by the United Nations Guiding Principles on Business and Human Rights, which were unanimously endorsed, as I mentioned, in May 2011, by the United Nations Human Rights Council where public procurement is specially addressed in the commentary to the guiding principle No. 6, which promotes Social Responsibility in Public Procurement, known as the SRPP. 161 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

This is to say, Mr. President, that there needs to be some self-assessment by suppliers as part of the process of submitting information with respect to their qualifications and experience, especially if disqualified and have to re-apply as stated in clause 29(9). The goal of the supplier’s self-assessment is to ensure that the supplier’s socially responsible supply chain management system meets the requirements of the contract performance clauses, and that is very important. If the self-assessment is satisfactory and complete with all requested documentation supplied, the task at hand would not be as difficult. If the self-assessment, however, proves practices that do not meet the required standards, a correction action plan must be created. This action plan encourages and prompts suppliers to make improvements in their system for socially responsible supply chain management. It is therefore recommended that a given time frame within which the supplier must have fulfilled the requirements of the corrective action plan is agreed upon. In other words, this procurement legislation would not only get value for money by asking of suppliers to give of their best so as to be rewarded, but this legislation can act as a catalyst for encouraging best practice for those who wish to become suppliers. Young future entrepreneurs can look at this Bill and know that this is what my country expects of me if I were to get into this kind of business; that I am expected by law to build my business on principles of good governance, accountability, transparency, integrity and value for money. Mr. President, briefly, yet I hope I have made a simple point. I support the intentions of this Bill, and with the necessary and relevant legislative structure in place, it can become a catalyst for a more just society and a revisioning of procurement practices in Trinidad and Tobago. I thank you. [Desk thumping] Sen. Dr. Aysha Edwards: Thank you, Mr. President, for the opportunity to join this debate on this Bill entitled: “An Act to provide for public procurement, and for the retention and disposal of public property, in accordance with the principles of good governance, namely accountability, transparency, integrity and value for money…” Mr. President, I want to make it clear that some of the information that I am going to be using was taken from an article that was published in the Journal of Legal Affairs and Dispute Resolution Engineering and Construction, and this article was written by Mr. Hector Martin, who is a PhD candidate at the University of the West indies and—I think his name is Dr. Outridge. The article is entitled, “Is Legislation a Barrier to the Procurement of Construction Goods and Services? Review of Trinidad and Tobago’s Construction Industry”. 162 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. DR. EDWARDS] Just because of the way that I think, I always like to kind of have a base on which to build. I am sure everyone here knows that procurement includes the development of a procurement strategy, preparation of contracts, selection and acquisition of supplies and management of contracts. In 1961, seeing that we are doing all this history, our budgetary allocation for our capital and recurring expenditures was $153 million. In 2011, the total expenditure was $49 billion, so it is showing that over the years we continue to increase in the amount that we spend for recurring expenditure and for capital. In the 2011 national budget, 26 per cent of the budget was spent on public project implementation by both state-owned companies and Ministries. This figure represents about $14 billion; $7.412 billion was utilized for implementation of Public Sector Investment Programmes, and the remaining was extended by state agencies. Mr. President, in today’s Express, under the opinion section, it states—and I am just going to read the last part because I think that is where the people of Trinidad and Tobago stand at this time—it says: “In some way, however, urgency must be acknowledged on all sides to bring an end to the long years of finger-pointing and marking time, and to start, at long last, a progressive new era in public procurement. 8.45 p.m. So it means that the people of Trinidad and Tobago are ready to see this Bill enacted. They are ready to see procurement taken at a serious level and they are ready to see some type of change, as opposed to what we are constantly hearing about contract overrides, about favouritism in the distribution of contracts, about cost overruns. We are at the point where we just want projects to come on board, to finish on time and to finish with the cost that we expect it to be finished with. There is an article written by Evenett and Hoekman, titled “International Cooperation and the Reform of Public Procurement”, in that article, one of the things that I thought was very important is that it stated that the government never spends its own money. It is spending taxpayers’ money for both present and future generations. Taxpayers and future generations therefore benefit from government spending when transparency, accountability and value for money are manifested, and conversely, they suffer from government’s bad spending when public money is badly managed or services poorly developed. So I would like to believe that the hon. Minister must have read this article, as it states in the title of the Bill: 163 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

“…accountability, transparency, integrity and value for money”—the same things that this article spoke to. Insofar as questioning a public procuring entity, one of the first attempts was the O’Halloran enquiry in 1987, which examined the procurement of planes for the national airline. I think I can categorically say that we are still in the same state today, which means that this legislation is really needed. I will give you an example. I went to Tobago yesterday. I went to a ceremony that was beautiful. The Ministry of Education, the Tobago House of Assembly and the President’s office did a fabulous job. I got to the airport, and this is the ANR Robinson International Airport, at approximately 2.30, and I sat at that airport until 9.00 p.m. waiting to come back to Trinidad. That would be fine if every hour there was a flight, but within that six-hour period there were only two flights back to Trinidad—two flights—at which point in time the Caribbean Airlines agent explained that one of the water ferries was not working. I am not a business major, but I would think that if one of the means that takes away clients is not working, it means that your supply would then increase, because you would be expecting an increased demand for your services. As a matter of fact, they dropped off, because now they had two flights and those two flights were within the first three hours of that time. The flight that I came back on was a special flight that CAL would have introduced for standby passengers. So then I want to know what happened to all the flights that would have been online that would have been scheduled as being sold out, because anyone who tries to go to Tobago or come back from Tobago knows that within a day or two, all the flights are sold out. And this might seem really silly, but I will try to explain it to you. In today’s Guardian it says: “Concern over hike in Tobago’s population” The first part went on to say that: “The rapid population growth in Tobago which will see the population increase from 60,000 in 2011 to an estimated 72,000 by 2030, is now causing serious concern to officials who believe the drastic increase will have an adverse effect on the island’s eco-tourism.” That is not why I am worried. For anyone who lives in Tobago or for people who visit Tobago, they will tell you that when they go to Tobago for long weekends, they actually take their own groceries to Tobago, because for people who are living in 164 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. DR. EDWARDS] Trinidad they think that it is incredible to spend that kind of cost on food in Tobago. So it means that the people of Tobago are spending much more money on groceries than the average Trinidadian. I know for a fact some people who go as far as to come to Trinidad to go to PriceSmart to stock up to go back to Tobago. So if you are telling me that the fast ferry is not working, it means you are either not coming or when you come you are stranded here. It means that businessmen therefore are capitalizing on this, because it means that they can now increase and inflate their prices because the demand is there, because we are not getting that easy flow between both islands, and this is one country. Sometimes we only think about, “Okay, it is not our fault; you are in Tobago and you are a Tobagonian and you got stuck in Trinidad, you must know a family or a friend,” but think about the international tourist who would have come to Tobago, had a great time and is ready to go back home, they are stuck in Tobago and they may not be on a CAL flight out of Trinidad. So now that they are stuck in Tobago, when they get to Trinidad they would have missed a flight, who compensates them for that? These are things that we need to take into consideration. One of the complaints in Tobago in terms of procurement at CAL is the type of planes that are bought. I remember having a conversation with someone and they said, you know the planes that CAL bought, the new fleet because they are not meant for the short distance, the amount of time—If you think about it, each flight is two landings and two take-offs. It does not matter where you go, it does not matter the distance. So they were saying that the smaller aircraft are more catered for that. With the short distance, it is easy for them to do this back and forth, back and forth. For the bigger jets, the Boeing, it makes sense for them to do the international flights. When those planes are being used in the Trinidad/Tobago run, it is the same two take-offs, two landings, so therefore the requirement for service is the same, just for a shorter distance. So then the cost for servicing becomes erroneous because we are servicing these planes more often. Mr. President, for the people living in Tobago, it is important when we start talking—I mean, some people would not like to believe that in 2014 we are still talking about the issues with the air bridge, but we are still dealing with them, because that was my experience. So I could just imagine for the persons who would go to Tobago every weekend and come back every weekend, and the way that they would have learned how to manoeuvre the system in order to move back and forth. 165 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

In that article, they used a case study and they said that: “Nicaragua had been spending 17 per cent of its health budget on pharmaceuticals.”—annually—“With the establishment of a transparent procurement agency, accompanied by the effective implementation of an essential drug list, the government”—of Nicaragua—“was able to reduce drug costs significantly. Within one year…the government was able to reduce its pharmaceutical budget from $21 million in 1992 to $13 million in 1993.”—and this is a 38 per cent decrease. I do look forward to this kind of change in health care. I remember recently someone telling me of an emergency room within one of the RHAs, purchasing trolleys for patients to lie on—and these were supposedly new trolleys. But mind you, the trolleys, they could not lift the head or take them down, so whatever position the trolley was in, literally that is how it stayed, and anyone would tell you that makes no sense. If you have someone lying flat on their back, at some point they will want to be elevated. If someone is elevated, at some point they would want to lie flat in order to rest. So it speaks to who is responsible for procuring, not just pharmaceuticals, but equipment, not only for our hospitals but for our schools and for our offices, and what methods are being used to do that. Mr. President, as I go through the legislation on page 5 in the definition it says that: “‘procuring entity’ means a public body engaged in procurement proceedings;” And then it goes on to say: “‘public body’ means…”—and there is a list of what public bodies are. I would hope that the Minister would use a more inclusive definition for “procuring entity”. I was fortunate to receive a definition which I think the Minister may have seen or heard about before, where it says that: Procuring entity means those public bodies engaged in procurement proceedings using public money which are State, local authorities, bodies governed by public law, subsidiaries of those public bodies, an association formed by one or more of such public bodies or bodies which are totally owned and controlled by the State or procuring entity. Bodies which are financed wholly or mainly by the State or by another procuring entity, bodies which are subject to management supervision or controlled by another procuring entity, body on which the State or procuring entity owns over 50 per cent of that entity. 166 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. DR. EDWARDS] It does not have to be such a long-winded definition in the Bill, but I think it will do better than just stating that: “‘procuring entity’ means a public body engaged in procurement proceedings;” Mr. President, I would like to point out to the Minister that I had one issue under “public bodies” where it says: “a person or unincorporated entity in relation”—and this is paragragh (l)—“to any function, project, scheme or arrangement which involves the use by him or it...” I really have a problem with “a person” because literally a person could really mean anybody and, therefore, that should not be there. I think as a people we will find a way to capitalize on this, and we would use this. It would take away from what this Bill is meant to do. In clause 5 it again repeats itself: “The objects of this Act are to promote— (a) the principles of accountability, integrity, transparency and value for money;” There needs to be a definition for “value for money”, because value for money cannot be a pie in the sky. What I think is value for money, someone else might not think is value for money. It goes true with basic purchases that we make in life. Someone would go into a store and spend $800 on a top or a pants. Another person would say, “Are you crazy? That could get me my whole grocery for two months and spend $200.” So value for money, I mean, we take it as a joke and we think it is very simple, but it must be clearly defined. One author said that value for money defines the relationship between economy, efficiency and effectiveness. Economy is the input side of the relationship. Efficiency is a measure of the productivity, how much you get out of the relationship, and effectiveness is a measure of the impact achieved which can be either quantitatively or qualitatively. As such, if the definition for value for money is stated, when it is time to audit, it is very easy to audit, because now you are auditing based on that definition. Mr. President, as we went on, I know a lot of people would have spoken about it, but I also want to put in my two cents, that I do not think a term of four years will work. I would like to ask the Minister if he considered a longer term, because 167 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 most projects take a long time. Most projects take a couple of years either to get off the ground or even within four years many projects are not even completed, so it means that within one person’s term they would not have even completed a project. So if you are extending the length of that first term or the length of each term, I think that would go better in terms of completing projects. The term for your regulator cannot run in line with our electoral system, because what you do not want happening is that if there is a change of government that there is a change of your regulator or your regulatory board. Then in subclause (8), I know that Sen. Small spoke about it, but again I am going to talk about it, where it says that the salaries and allowances of the regulator and other members shall be determined by the Salaries Review Commission. Mr. President, we have this philosophy or mentality in Trinidad and Tobago where we believe that professionals should not be paid as professionals. We make professionals feel embarrassed to know what they are deserving of what they should earn. I will give a good example. I am here temporarily, so I am here ever so often. Most people present right now are here every Tuesday. Just to come here for one Tuesday takes so much out of each person in terms of time, in terms of research, in terms of material. The amount paid to each Senator here is $10,000 before tax. I wonder if the people of Trinidad and Tobago appreciate that. These are the people who come and set laws. But you guys will not say anything because you do not want to come across as being greedy politicians, but the fact of the matter is you are being paid part- time salaries for full-time work, and no one is addressing that. And that is what I am afraid would happen with this because no one will want to say that these professionals deserve to be paid as professionals. 9.00 p.m. So this cannot be under the Salaries Review Commission. The salaries cannot be under the Salaries Review Commission. [Desk thumping] In addition to which—[Interruption] Hon. Senator: Well said, Senator. Sen. Dr. A. Edwards:—we need to get to a point where public sector workers are being paid equivalent or on par with their private sector workers, otherwise we will keep no one within our public sector. [Crosstalk] 168 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. DR. EDWARDS] Mr. President, I would like to suggest to the Minister, through you, that in clause 14 where he states, where the Bill states about “conduct audits and periodic inspections”, there should be some timeline. Some people will not put a timeline to when the audit should be done because if you tell someone that your term is four years, five years, 10 years, but you conduct audits and periodical inspection, you could do one audit because it did not say how many, it did not say how often. So there should be something written about the scheduling of audits, and even if you are saying that they are doing periodical inspection, then there should be something about some type of reporting. Right. It cannot be that you conduct audits and periodical inspection because we all know that audits, once done, would increase the transparency of the process and increased transparency improves accountability. Mr. President, these audits should be made available under the Freedom of Information Act. It should not just be that this board is doing audits and no one knows what the audited reports are. The reports should be made available so that the public can see what the results are from these audits. Mr. President, I also have an issue with 45(2), and I wanted to suggest to the hon. Minister, where it says that: “The Speaker shall, as soon as practicable, cause the report to be laid by Parliament…” I was wondering if it is possible to put in some type of timeline, whether it is in terms of saying, however many days, months, or even if it is just in saying “at the next sitting”, you know, that that report should be laid in Parliament. Mr. President, my biggest concern—my biggest concern—is at clause 43. I have no suggestion on how to fix it. My only suggestion is to take it out. That is the truth. I really do not have—and I know sometimes it is said that you should not really point out flaws if you cannot help to fix the flaw. I really cannot help to fix it. I have no suggestion on how to fix it. I just say to take it out. I must say, I think the Minister and his Ministry—I commend them for bringing this, and I think one of the things why I am not surprised with this Minister bringing this would be, I was a student when this Minister was at UWI, so I would have benefited from his forward-thinking when he was at UWI. So this is not new to me. [Desk thumping] Right. But I do want to see it tweaked. I do want to see it tweaked. [Crosstalk] Hon. Senator: Very gracious. 169 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Dr. A. Edwards: I do want see it tweaked. I want us to get to a point where we are delivering what we have promised. We cannot continue starting projects, and if we change administrations, the project dies or it restarts. We have to get to a point where we continue for the betterment of Trinidad and Tobago; that we see a bigger picture, that we understand that the future generation depends on this, that we are spending money that is not our money to spend. [Desk thumping] It is really not our money to spend, so if we can invest the public purse back into the public and they would benefit from it. The fact of the matter is that we are all here for a time. We might not like to accept it, but we are all here for a time, and at some point we must recognize that or at least take stock of what we are leaving behind as our legacy. Right. And I have no children, but I would like to think that—[Interruption] Hon. Senator: Yet. Sen. Dr. A. Edwards:—I have no children, but I would like to think that I am making steps to leave a positive legacy, you know, for my generation to come. And we need to start thinking that way. We need to take away from this experience that, you may not support everything in it, but not because you do not support everything in it means that you have to chastise it and throw it away. You can sit and work it out because this is one of the most important Bills that would have come, I think, within the tenure of this Government, and everyone is talking about it is a check board and “yuh” ticking, and “yuh” ticking, and “yuh” ticking, and it might be, but who really cares at this point in time? I really do not. I want to see change, and I am very grateful for it. Thank you, Mr. President. [Desk thumping] The Minister of Planning and Sustainable Development (Sen. The Hon. Dr. Bhoendradatt Tewarie): Mr. President, hon. Senators, I want to thank you very, very much for the tremendously valuable and enlightening contributions that you have made to this Bill—the Public Procurement and Disposal of Public Property Bill, 2014. I have listened attentively to all contributions, and in my own mind I have made the necessary distinction between genuine concern, meaningful suggestions and political rant. [Desk thumping] Hon. Senator: Well done. Well done. Sen. The Hon. Dr. B. Tewarie: I could not proceed any further without acknowledging and without expressing my thanks to Sen. Anthony Vieira for his very, very [Desk thumping] kind words and his graciousness to me personally during his sterling contribution and wholehearted endorsement of the Bill, while in his usual objective and professional manner, he identified matters in the Bill which required further attention. 170 Public Procurement Bill, 2014 Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. DR. D. TEWARIE] I want to also thank Sen. Dr. Aysha Edwards for her tremendous contribution, but also equally for her graciousness in saying kind things about me. [Desk thumping] This is a country that has grown in the coarseness of sensibility, and to see these kinds of things and to have them—what can I say—sent to you in this gracious way is always, first of all, a surprise, but secondly, we are all human and one cannot help but feel—[Interruption] Hon. Senator: Warmth. Sen. The Hon. Dr. B. Tewarie:—a sense of warmth—yes—to the people who are brave enough—[Interruption] Sen. George: That is right. Sen. The Hon. Dr. B. Tewarie:—and who are independent enough to do those things. [Desk thumping] And I do want to thank all the Independent Senators who spoke especially because they have indicated very clearly that they will support the Bill. They have issues of concern and I want to give all Members of the Senate the assurance that when we get to the committee stage the suggestions for amendments will be fully taken into account. I simply want to say though that, it is impossible that every amendment suggested will be taken. One has to bear in mind too that at the end of the day, the Bill must have a certain coherence, and the policy which derives out of a certain philosophical position must be kept, but besides those conditions, once reasonable suggestions come, you know, we will be happy to take them on board because at the end of the day it would be a better thing if more of us were comfortable with the Bill than not. I do want to say that I think this debate, as some Senators have pointed out, really provides the opportunity for a watershed movement forward despite whatever situation we might be in now or how the past might have evolved with regard to procurement and procurement issues, and regardless of the controversies that have raged over time in this country. So, Mr. President, I would like to begin by making those initial points, and I hope to be able to proceed on the next occasion that we meet. [Desk thumping] ADJOURNMENT The Minister of the Environment and Water Resources (Sen. The Hon. Ganga Singh): Mr. President, it has been a very fruitful day and we still have several statements to be made on Indian Arrival Day, together with a matter on the adjournment. So, Mr. President, in those circumstances I beg to move that this Senate do now adjourn to Tuesday, June 10 at 1.30 p.m. for the continuation of the matter at hand., the procurement Bill. 171 Adjournment Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Mr. President: Hon. Senators, before I put the question on the adjournment there is—and I have granted leave for a matter to be raised on the Motion for the adjournment of the Senate, and therefore call upon Sen. Faris Al-Rawi. You have 15 minutes, Senator. Inland Revenue Division (Stamp Duty Section) Sen. Faris Al-Rawi: Thank you, Mr. President; 15 minutes. [Crosstalk] Still some good time to do some beating. Mr. President, I rise, with your leave and permission, to raise a very, very serious matter on the adjournment of this Senate. Mr. President, the Motion for the adjournment reads: “the need for the Minister of Finance and the Economy to address the continued restriction and sometimes closure of the stamp duty division at the Inland Revenue Division in Port of Spain which has hampered the payment of stamp duty on instruments, thereby exposing citizens to unnecessary expense and extreme jeopardy of security in their property and interests” be raised in the Senate. Mr. President, it has been some two months right now that there has been serious restriction at the stamp duty division in Port of Spain. The division itself has had serious restriction for some time before that, but the crystallization of industrial action has really come home to bear within the last two months. The Stamp Duty Section, Mr. President, is perhaps the main artery which facilitates the registration exercise of deeds in Trinidad and Tobago and instruments in Trinidad and Tobago, and it is a vital area of the Government of Trinidad and Tobago for the collection of revenue. In a time where revenue generation is extremely important to a government, as beleaguered as this one—[Interruption]

Hon. Senators: “Awwwh.” Sen. F. Al-Rawi:—which is very long on expenditure and very short on revenue, one would think that the stamp duty division would receive urgent and burning attention. In a time when a government prides itself, through its Minister of Labour and Small and Micro Enterprise Development, to say that all is well in the industrial relations climate of Trinidad and Tobago, Trinidad and Tobago has fallen victim to the difficulties that the public service is experiencing which has caused them to engage in one of the most devastating public demonstrations of go-slow and strike at the particular division in question. 172 Inland Revenue Commission Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. AL-RAWI] 9.15 p.m. Now, Mr. President, I must put this into context, not only does the stamp duty division bring revenue by the sale of stamps pursuant to the Stamp Duty Act, but it very importantly deals with the registration of deeds. The Registration of Deeds Act, Chap. 19:06, sets out all of the positions—Minister Hadeed is expressing surprise the red books of Trinidad and Tobago, having never seen one, perhaps, himself [Interruption] but I invite him to have a good look at the laws of Trinidad and Tobago. So, Mr. President, the Registration of Deeds Act—[Interruption] Mr. President: Can we listen in silence, please? Sen. F. Al-Rawi:—provides for the execution and registration of deeds, the priority of deeds and protection of purchasers and mortgagees and the production of deeds in evidence. It is specifically with respect to the priority of deeds and protection of purchasers and mortgagees at section 16 of this Act, Chap. 19:01 that I wish the Senate to centre. Section 16 speaks as follows: “Every Deed whereby any lands in Trinidad and Tobago may be in any way affected at law or in equity shall be registered under this Act, and every such Deed duly registered shall be good and effectual both at law and in equity, according to the priority of time of registering such Deed, according to the right, title and interest of the person conveying such lands against every other Deed, conveyance or disposition of the same lands or any part thereof, and against all creditors by judgment of the same person so conveying such land.” For Sen. Hadeed and others that do not read law very often, [Interruption] the point in relation to this is that the priority of interest for banks, for persons who purchase land, for anyone having an interest in land, is a critical item lest a bona fide purchaser for value comes along without notice and has a priority in charge. Right now in Trinidad and Tobago banks’ interests as mortgagees are being seriously prejudiced by an operationality at the stamp duty division which has been reduced to one hour per day at best. Mortgage bills of sales which run into hundreds of millions of dollars per month and which have a time frame for registration of seven days have run into serious problems requiring the banks to send the mortgage bills of sales back for re-execution, and in circumstances where the consideration for the instrument would have been prior to the execution of the instrument. It also necessitates expenditure of a type to cause registration for it having been delivered out of time through the courts of Trinidad and Tobago. 173 Inland Revenue Commission Tuesday, May 27, 2014

The hon. Minister of Finance and the Economy is very well aware, I am sure, in his capacity as a banker in his last incarnation, that it is a scandalous state of affairs for the Government of Trinidad and Tobago to sit idly by while security interests of mortgagees and any person vesting title in someone else lies in a parlous state such that another interest may come in priority. All the much more so when the restriction on the Registration of Deeds Act is factored in the context of the law. Equitable charges rank in priority over registered interests. So, we are inviting serious litigation, serious prejudice of security, and one will no doubt see qualification of the quality of loans on the banks’ books where stamp duty cannot be affixed in a timely fashion, if at all. I must point out to the hon. Minister that this also applies where one is looking for an adjudication of no payment of stamp duty. The affairs at the stamp duty division at the Board of Inland Revenue have ground to a halt. Now, I expect the hon. Minister, being fed with misinformation, to say that San Fernando’s office for stamp duty permits registration. That may be true, but he may not be aware that the situation in San Fernando is such that the Port of Spain clerks, and elsewhere in Trinidad and Tobago, have to get to San Fernando by 4.00 a.m. in the morning, line up and have the desk open for one hour and then be sent home again. I can speak as a practitioner with a serious amount of practice in mortgaging and conveyancing work, that we are in extreme jeopardy, and it is incredible that the Government can sit on its hands and not seek to bring solution to this. The Minister has wide-ranging powers to bring some form of relief. We had the Minister of Labour and Small and Micro Enterprise here today in this Senate and he has been absolutely silent on this issue. And it is a scandalous state of affairs equipped with someone such as the Minister of Labour and Small and Micro Enterprise, who is capable to stand on a stage all night long on Saturday night, not in his speech to speak to the state of agitation by the PSA as a union in Trinidad and Tobago. Mr. President, I can only pray that the hon. Minister of Finance and the Economy will take avail of the opportunity through this Motion to bring serious relief that is required to the security and interests, to the property rights of lenders in Trinidad and Tobago, of owners in Trinidad and Tobago, lest we see citizens requiring the opportunity—being required to go to the courts to seek relief. The hon. Minister, I am sure, will be as charitable as commendations made towards Sen. Dr. Tewarie today to recognize that I have raised these issues previously. All that we wish is a solution to this. It cannot be that the solution is something that is elusive, security interests are at deep risk and the Minister must 174 Inland Revenue Commission Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. AL-RAWI] do something about it. Through you, Mr. President, I appreciate that this Minister may very well be required to register a deed poll to change his name by adding on the word “audit” somewhere in his title, because he is now the Minister of “audit” in Trinidad and Tobago—[Interruption]—required to audit every single scandal that this Government is engaged in. [Interruption] And, Mr. President, insofar as he may have to register that deed for which stamp duty is payable, [Crosstalk] I can only hope that the hon. Minister will understand the sincere responsibility on his shoulders and get on with the business of the people of Trinidad and Tobago. I thank you, Mr. President. [Crosstalk] The Minister of Finance and the Economy (Sen. The Hon. Larry Howai): Thank you, Mr. President. Let me first begin by, perhaps, bringing a bit of order to the discussion on this matter. I want to say that, of course, I am equally concerned as the hon. Senator regarding this particular matter, as I am sure all of us are, including yourself, Mr. President. Certainly, what has happened over the past few weeks at the Board of Inland Revenue in the stamp duty section, but in other sections too, has certainly impacted and can have the potential for further impacting the economy going forward, if we do not regularize the situation as quickly as possible. So, we recognize the importance of it. I want to say though, of course, that this is not a situation where there has been a sudden collapse of a building or part of a building within the past few weeks. It has been, of course, precipitated as the hon. Senator mentioned by the fact that there is ongoing industrial relations action and there are continuing negotiations between the Government and the PSA at this time concerning the latest round of negotiations for the period 2011—2014. Therefore, there has been the use of some industrial action as a way to precipitate a decision on the part of the Government, which, we recognize is not in the best interest of the country as a whole. I will also say that while there is some blame of course for me to bear, that the whole question of the state of government buildings is not something that happened recently. It is something that has happened over a long period of time. It represents decades of neglect, it represents a callous disregard for proper and regular maintenance over a long period of time. This is not something—in fact, there is a culture within, in a sense, the Government of not maintaining buildings in the way that it ought to be [Interruption] and I have had to take particular 175 Inland Revenue Commission Tuesday, May 27, 2014 action to ensure that I address these particular things. Of course, one of the ways we have also failed is that the landlords themselves do not take an interest in maintaining the buildings and so on in the way that they should. Again, that is something that we the Government need to deal with. And it is in this regard that I have taken the action to start regularizing the issue, as the Senator mentioned just now, of the buildings that have been constructed and which are in the process of being completed, and which will cost approximately $1.3 billion to have completed. I expect that we should have the Customs building ready by September or October of this year and by the middle of next year we should have the entire building completed for the gradual phased move in of the Ministry of Legal Affairs, the Ministry of Education, the Board of Inland Revenue and so on.

We have taken action to ensure that the premises where our staff operate— from the time I came in I started a programme of addressing some of these things and a number of the renovations are almost in the process of being completed. I expect within the next week or two that a lot of the renovation work that needs to be done in these areas would be completed. I would want the hon. Senator to be aware that certainly as far as the stamp duty section is concerned, that we have moved the hours of work back up from the one hour a day to now 8.30 a.m. to 12.30 p.m. every day. So, I have already put that arrangement in place and many of the documents are being dealt with in a more expeditious manner. I have also put additional resources in place to bring some of the backlog up to date. So, I expect that within the next 14 days to have all of the backlog cleared based on the resources that I have assigned to ensuring that we clear all of that backlog. So, it is not that, as the hon. Senator is saying, that we were sitting on our hands. [Interruption] Action was taken, we had to deal with it, we have taken action to deal with it and we are in the process of clearing all of the backlog and, as I say, I expect that certainly within the next 14 days that we would have brought all of the backlog back up to date. We have completed the renovation work on Victoria Avenue; by this weekend we will complete the renovation work on Trinidad House. I completed work on the VAT building some time ago and we actually moved them into the Ministry of Finance building, because I did a lot of renovation work in the Ministry of Finance building so I was able to move them into one of the floors there. 176 Inland Revenue Commission Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. L. HOWAI] So, there has been a lot of work going on. There has been action taken and we are on top of the situation. We recognize the problem that we face and we are sure that perhaps in the coming weeks and months you probably would have other reasons why different government offices may probably have a situation where you have some kind of walkout. I mean, in one case where I did a recent renovation on the second floor, only to find that everybody walked out and when I came in to find out, well, why is everybody gone, somebody took the door from the ladies toilet and went with it. [Laughter] So, basically I was in breach of OSH because somebody went with the door. [Interruption] So, the ladies said they cannot use the toilet and they went home. They signed for the morning and they went home for the rest of the day. [Laughter] So, I have no doubt that I have done what I have to do and I figure I am okay and then somebody signs in and walks out, because I run into some other thing that, for whatever reason, we did not identify. [Crosstalk] But, the thing about it is I just want to say that—and I just in summary in response to Sen. Al-Rawi, yes, we understand, Senator, and you did raise it with me on several occasions and perhaps I did not spend enough time explaining what I was doing and I do give you credit for that. But, we are dealing with the situation. We have been dealing with it over a period of time so it is not as if we have just recently started, and that is why some of the work is about complete because we have been working on it. We have put additional resources in place. We have gotten the hours of work back up here in Port of Spain. We expect to have the backlog cleared within 14 days and we expect to be able to put more permanent solutions in place in the coming months. Thank you, Mr. President. [Desk thumping] 9.30 p.m. Sen. Al-Rawi: Mr. President, may I enquire—[Interruption] Hon. Senators: No, no. Sen. Al-Rawi:—to the Leader of Government Business. I cannot hear myself, Mr. President. Mr. President: Senators, Senators, can I just listen to what Sen. Al-Rawi has to say. Sen. Al-Rawi: I am just enquiring, there was another Motion on the Adjournment that was qualified for today’s purpose to the Minister of National Security, on the closure of Immigration, and I see Sen. Moheni who sits in that Ministry is also here. Is the Government in a position to deal with that one? 177 Inland Revenue Commission Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Hon. Senator: No. Sen. G. Singh: Mr. President, I indicated to the acting Leader of Opposition Business that we would not be dealing with that, and in accordance with the decorum of the Senate, I am surprised that he raised it now. [Crosstalk] Indian Arrival Day (Greetings) Mr. President: Hon. Senators, you will be aware of course that on Friday we celebrate Indian Arrival Day, and therefore I now would like to invite tributes to be paid by one Senator from each Bench today. The Minister of Food Production (Sen. The Hon. Devant Maharaj): I rise to bring greetings on behalf of the Government of Trinidad and Tobago as we celebrate and observe Indian Arrival Day, 2014. The inclusion of the Indian identity as part of the national identity of Trinidad and Tobago was not without its struggles which culminated in the observance of Indian Arrival Day as a national holiday in 1995. Across the nation, and even in the Indo-Trinbagonian diaspora communities in the United Kingdom, Canada, United States and elsewhere, persons of Indian origin will commemorate 169 years since our Indian foreparents landed on the shores of Trinidad and Tobago; a day that would forever transform the social, cultural and economic landscape of our nation. In the People’s Partnership manifesto this Government promised to embrace the richness and beauty of our people’s great diversity, to nurture a more humane and cohesive society. And I can assure the nation that this Government continues to make concerted efforts on all fronts, to ensure that essential aspects of our nation’s past are not consigned to the archives of history, to eventually be forgotten. It was Marcus Garvey who once said that: “A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots.” And so it is important to understand, even though you are born in Trinidad and your nationality is Trinbagonian, it is still important to know your roots, your heritage, your ancestry. In my own family, for example, Mr. President, my mother and two sisters are African. My mother lives in South Africa and my two sisters were born there. However, their ancestral heritage is Indian. There are some who believe that having an ethnic identity is divisive, but this is not the case. Ethnic identities can 178 Indian Arrival Day Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. THE HON. D. MAHARAJ] be forged into something more unifying for the entire society. One can be proud and acknowledge their ancestry, and at the same time be a proud Trinbagonian simultaneously. This is what makes our nation unique, as every creed and race and religion has an equal place and we live together in harmony.

Last year, as many of you would be able to recall, the Ministry of National Diversity and Social Integration led the way in the restoration of Nelson Island. This was the first port of entry [Desk thumping] of the Indian immigrants where they were quarantined. The Ministry also must be commended for their insightful exhibition they set up with the informative displays that depicted the various aspects of indentureship and indentured life on the island, as well as the mainland. Members of every segment of our society, regardless of creed or race have the opportunity to revisit, relive and understand the experience of the Indian immigrant as they first stepped onto our shores. It is well known that the Indian immigrants brought with them many aspects of their culture, including plants, fruits, food, musical instruments, Holy book, as well as festivals which are still celebrated today, such as, Divali, Phagwa and Eid- ul-Fitr. Many artefacts of the early Indian immigrants can be found today at the Indian Caribbean Museum located in Waterloo, Carapichaima, which was established in 2006. It was first pioneered by myself as the first chairman, and it is owned and operated [Desk thumping] by the Sanatan Dharma Maha Sabha. The sole purpose of the Museum is to preserve the historical record of the Indian community in Trinidad. The occasion of Indian Arrival Day should be used by all Trinidadians and Tobagonians as an opportunity to deepen family relations, to learn more about your roots and to teach others about your ancestors’ history. This is more than a day off, a day to go to the beach. It is an annual reminder, an annual opportunity to foster a deeper understanding and appreciation of our heritage, regardless of what civilization that would have brought you here. In the search for my ancestors, published recently in the book: “The Line of My People” [Minister showed book to Senators] and it is not for sale, so this is not an ad, it became evident that the story and histories of our foreparents as enthusiastically related to us by our “aji and aja” are indeed invaluable. And although I acknowledge that these stories may be taken with a, “pinch of salt”, as history tends to be a little embellished as time goes on, it certainly provides vital clues to springboard the research to our roots. 179 Indian Arrival Day Tuesday, May 27, 2014

As I carefully documented, the oral history of my ancestors and searched for the verifying historical documents, I confirmed that there was more to Indian immigrants than the clichéd stories of these immigrants being imported onto a colony of Trinidad and Tobago, between 1845 and 1917, to labour in the cane field. At the time of the arrival of the Indian immigrants there was also “cocoa boom” which ended in the 1920’s, and many Indian immigrants became cocoa proprietors, such as my foreparents. The area of Sangre Grande, for example, became essentially the cocoa capital of the eastern and northern districts. Among these immigrants residing in this area were my foreparents, Madri Dial and Ozeeroon Dial, arriving on the shores of Trinidad and Tobago some 156 years ago in 1858. Here you had a Hindu boy coming off at the age 18, with a Muslim bride at the age 20, uniting to form a legacy that would transcend the agricultural roots and spawn a lineage which has contributed to the building of our very nation. Members of this family achieved national prominence and contributed significantly to our nation of Trinidad and Tobago in many ways, including the participation in the nation’s politics, as important members of the Judiciary, as health professionals and scholars and as cultural ambassadors through literature and music. These simple peasants arriving in 1858 returning to India, subsequently, only to come back in 1888 as a nation of choice, as passengers, contributed significantly with iconic figures in our nation’s history that left an indelible mark, including former Chief Magistrate of Trinidad and Tobago, Mr. Bisham Maharaj; Dr. Inderjit Dial, one of the first Hindu doctors who practised on the East/West Corridor; educator, Dr. Anna Mahase; Catholic activist, Leela Ramdeen; Attorney-at-Law, Rangee Dolsingh; singer, Neval Chatelal; writer, Neil Bissoondath; the Dharmacharya of Trinidad and Tobago; Pundit Utham Maharaj; sports expert, Anthony Harford and those in politics, including: the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Stephen Maharaj; the last DLP member alive, today, Balgobin Ramdeen; Member of Parliament for Toco/Manzanilla, Indra Sinanan Ojar- Maharaj and the current Deputy Political Leader of the PNM, Rohan Sinanan. I want to encourage members of all ethnic groups in our nation to search deep into your past and search for your origins. Take heed that your history is fast disappearing with the loss of every elder whose fading memory holds a code that encrypts the line of your very own people. Thank you, Mr. President. [Desk thumping] Sen. Diane Baldeo-Chadeesingh: Thank you very much. On the occasion of Indian Arrival Day I am delighted to bring greetings from this side of the Senate, the PNM Bench. Our early forefathers who migrated from a homeland in India, 180 Indian Arrival Day Tuesday, May 27, 2014 [SEN. BALDEO-CHADEESINGH] 169 years ago, could little have imagined that their offspring would be so integrally involved in every aspect of societal life in Trinidad and Tobago today, and would be playing pivotal roles in shaping the destiny of this country. Their vision may more realistically have been to amass some of the wealth, the promised wealth, and return to their homeland financially better off and possessed with a wealth of stories of their adventure to a far off land. And many, in fact, did return to India, almost 25 per cent of those who came. For those who remained, lured by the promise of land or prevented by the broken promises of their captors, they toiled in the sugar cane fields, and by the dint of their sweat and tears, sought to build a life for themselves and a future for their offspring far away from the land of their birth. It is difficult for us to imagine their agonies, their pains and anguish living in primitive conditions and reflecting on the family and cultural bonds that would remain broken forever. Notwithstanding the hardships of toiling on the sugar plantation, the sugar cane plantations, East Indians continued to farm the land even after indentureship. Culturally and philosophically, East Indians have always had a special reverence for the land, and for the produce of the land. Their forefathers regarded the land as Dharti Mata, Mother Earth; Dharti, Earth, Mata, Mother, and provides sustenance. And this probably explains why many of them have continued to farm the land up to this day and maintain that bond with Dharti Mata. But the greater majority of East Indian descendants have moved into a wide range of endeavours, and today play significant roles in law, in medicine, business, politics and engineering. In other words, in every field of endeavour in Trinidad and Tobago. Faith, circumstances and ancestral pursuits have conjured to define a reality for today’s generation of East Indians in Trinidad and Tobago that could never have been in the contemplation and dreams of our forefathers. As a significant ethnic group, in the potpourri of our rainbow mix, citizens of East Indian descent have contributed a variety of food, music, religion, cultural values, among other things, to the rich cultural diversity of Trinidad and Tobago. Roti and doubles have become staples in Trinidad and Tobago, and curry in all foods is an integral aspect of our culinary delights. Out of the rich musical art forms of our forefathers, East Indian descendants have forged an originated “chutney” which is exclusively Trinidadian, and which is progressively fusing with calypso and soca. Beautiful temples and mosques have blossomed throughout the land where people of East Indian origin worship in keeping with the spirit of our National Anthem and the freedoms enshrined in our Constitution. 181 Indian Arrival Day Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Today, all Trinidadians are involved in one way or another in the observation and celebration of Divali and Eid. Our forefathers came to this land with traditional East Indian attire. Today, the majority of the descendants have adapted western ways of attire. However, traditional wear is very evident during the observance of religious events and festivities, and in this very Chamber today. There is a resurgence of sarees, orhnies, shalwars, kurtas, and hijabs that remind us of our cultural antecedence and add to the beautiful array of attire in our diverse cultural society. 9.45 p.m. East Indians, and our brothers and sisters of African heritage, the two major ethnic groups in Trinidad and Tobago, struggled for years after indentureship and slavery to find their rightful place and identity in Trinidad and Tobago. Much has been achieved in this regard over the years, and today both groups can be justifiably proud of the contributions they continue to make in moulding a just and equitable society, and the roles they play and they continue to play in shaping the destiny of our country. Today, Trinidadians of all ethnic origins and with diverse cultural backgrounds and religious orientations, living in harmony and cooperation, have become a model for the world, representing the best example of unity in diversity.

Earlier this year, I attended the Inter-Parliamentary Union’s 130th IPU Assembly in Geneva, Switzerland, in March, and seated next to our delegation was the Somalian delegation. They were caught back when they saw the composition of our delegation and they commented to me that, “You all look so different, yet you get along so well”. He further went on and said, “In Somalia we all look the same and we have so much fighting”. Descendants of East Indians, as an ethnic group, have made valuable contributions towards the development and growth of our country, and from this side we salute their efforts and applaud their Trinidadian-ness. Sen. Al-Rawi: Well said. [Desk thumping] Sen. D. Baldeo-Chadeesingh: It is good to recognize and appreciate the beginning of the journey, but it is even better to celebrate the glorious destination.

From the Opposition Bench, from the PNM, happy Indian Arrival Day to all citizens of Trinidad and Tobago. [Desk thumping] Mr. President: Sen. Rev. Joy Abdul-Mohan. [Desk thumping] 182 Indian Arrival Day Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Sen. Rev. Joy Abdul-Mohan: Thank you, Mr. President. As part of the Indo-diaspora, I truly feel elated and humbled to have been asked to bring greetings on behalf of the Independent Bench, only this morning, but I took the challenge, especially as we commemorate with the rest of the nation, Indian Arrival Day, 2014. Mr. President, I believe it is noteworthy and it is the opportune time, as well as a blessing, to mention that, like other communities, as was mentioned by other speakers, the Indo community brings with it, tenacity, loyalty, devotion, faithfulness, hard work and sacrificial labour. Having been placed in a foreign land, our forefathers and mothers made Trinidad and Tobago a home away from home despite many health and social hardships and challenges. Following the arrival of the East indentured labourers since 1845, many generations, including my own, benefitted, and continue to benefit from a rich heritage and illustrious history. I say this because very often we forget that research was done reminding us that those who came as East indentured labourers to Trinidad were not only of one religion, but several: Muslim, Hindus and Christians. I can say this because my great, great grandmother would sing to us the Christian bhajans that she would have learnt from the Marthoma Church—St. Thomas Church. St. Thomas had already gone to India and started the church before Trinidad and Tobago was even discovered, and so, when we hear Christian bhajans like [Speaks in foreign language] it would remind us that, “Without you, God, I am nothing— absolutely nothing—for I owe you my salvation”. I wanted to sing it eh, Mr. President, but—[Interruption] Hon. Senator: Sing it. I would accompany “yuh”. Sen. Rev. J. Abdul-Mohan: Again, like other communities, the Indo community has played, and continue to play, a very invaluable and integral role regardless of religious persuasion, social status and, perhaps educational background, and they play that integral role at every level within every institution of society. By hard work and sacrifice, the Indo community has always aimed at ensuring a bright future with great possibilities for all citizens, not only persons of their own ethnic background. Therefore, it is our prayer that with the unstinted support of all communities—our Afro brothers and sisters and other ethnic groups—the work and witness of the Indo community will be increasingly maintained so that every citizen will become spiritually aglow, intellectually alive and passionate to serve God and humanity for a much better Trinidad and Tobago so that every colour, creed and race can truly find an equal place. 183 Indian Arrival Day Tuesday, May 27, 2014

On behalf of the Independent Bench, we ask all citizens to celebrate with the Indo community as we remember why we came to this land, how we came, never forgetting that with sacrifice and hard work we are what we are today because of God and because of this rich heritage and joyous history. May God bless us all. Thank you. [Desk thumping] Mr. President: Hon. Senators, I would like to join with Senators who preceded me in bringing greetings on Indian Arrival Day. You know, often I have thought that it is much more than arrival, and I was happy to hear one of the Senators talking about a nation of choice because beyond arriving, I think our Indian brothers and sisters have put down roots here in Trinidad and Tobago, become part of the fabric of our society. And it is because of that mixture of culture and therefore the diversity it creates in terms of our society, that, in fact, when the Chinese delegation was here some time ago from the Parliament, he told me we had, what he referred to as an exotic society because the blending of cultures was something he had not experienced in any other part of the world. Therefore, that is a richness, if you like, that has come to Trinidad and Tobago by virtue of both the Indian population arriving here in Trinidad, taking roots here, and of course, our African population, side by side working and developing together for a better Trinidad and Tobago. So, we, too, also celebrate the values that the Indian community has brought to Trinidad and Tobago; the important values, I think, of self-sacrifice, the values of family life and the values of productivity that come with it because it becomes part of what we are and what we represent. Therefore, I would like to join with you in sending greetings to all our—not just our Indian brothers and sisters, but because they have put down roots here, because they have added to the fabric of the nation, we can all say that we celebrate together, Indian Arrival Day without which we, in Trinidad and Tobago, would not be what we are today. I also take the opportunity, of course, that Corpus Christi precedes Indian Arrival Day and, therefore, to the Catholic community with us—[Interruption] Hon. Senator: That is June. Mr. President: June? All right. [Laughter] That is two false starts for the day. Nonetheless, I would like, therefore, to join with you and to wish the Indian community and the rest of the nation, happy Indian Arrival Day. Therefore we are now left with just the requirement that we adjourn this Senate. Question put and agreed to. Senate adjourned accordingly. Adjourned at 9.56 p.m.