LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 4879

OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS

Thursday, 8 April 2021

The Council met at half-past Ten o'clock

MEMBERS PRESENT:

THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P.

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THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P.

IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN

THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, B.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING

THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI, J.P.

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THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN, J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN

THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI

THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S., J.P.

PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:

THE HONOURABLE MATTHEW CHEUNG KIN-CHUNG, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION

THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHAN MO-PO, G.B.M., G.B.S., M.H., J.P. FINANCIAL SECRETARY

THE HONOURABLE TERESA CHENG YEUK-WAH, G.B.S., S.C., J.P. SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE

THE HONOURABLE WONG KAM-SING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

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DR THE HONOURABLE LAW CHI-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE

THE HONOURABLE JOHN LEE KA-CHIU, S.B.S., P.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY

THE HONOURABLE FRANK CHAN FAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING

PROF THE HONOURABLE SOPHIA CHAN SIU-CHEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH

THE HONOURABLE EDWARD YAU TANG-WAH, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

THE HONOURABLE KEVIN YEUNG YUN-HUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION

THE HONOURABLE PATRICK NIP TAK-KUEN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE

THE HONOURABLE ALFRED SIT WING-HANG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY

THE HONOURABLE ERICK TSANG KWOK-WAI, I.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS

THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER HUI CHING-YU, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY

MR LIU CHUN-SAN, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT

MR JACK CHAN JICK-CHI, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS

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CLERK IN ATTENDANCE:

MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL

THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL AND ANSWER QUESTIONS PUT BY MEMBERS.

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THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE'S QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members please remain standing while the Chief Executive enters the Chamber.

(The Chief Executive entered the Chamber)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Chief Executive will first address the Council.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): The President of the Legislative Council, Honourable Members, first of all, I would like to thank the President of the Legislative Council for accepting my proposal to advance to today the Chief Executive's Question and Answer Session normally scheduled to be held in May, so that Members and I can focus our discussion on the amended Annex I to the Basic Law on Method for the Selection of the Chief Executive of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and Annex II to the Basic Law on Method for the Formation of the Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and Its Voting Procedures unanimously passed by the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress on the 30th of last month. The improved electoral system of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("SAR") will be able to establish a political structure which conforms to the "one country, two systems" principle, meets the actual situation of Hong Kong and fulfils the principle of "patriots administering Hong Kong". This is another major initiative of the Central Authorities to solve problems for Hong Kong at the national level following the passage and implementation of the Law of the People's Republic of China on Safeguarding National Security in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region on 30 June last year in Hong Kong. This fully demonstrates the adherence of the Central Authorities to the principle of "one country, two systems" and timely curbs acts that will seriously damage Hong Kong, thereby ensuring the stability and safety of our society. It has not only served as the anchor for stability, but has also achieved the purposes of restoring order from chaos and solving problems at root. I sincerely thank the vast majority of Legislative Council Members for publicly expressing their agreement on improving the electoral system, and more than 2 million people for expressing their support by signing online and offline.

In fact, I think that Members present are the most eligible people to, based on their personal experience working in the Legislative Council and the districts, give an account of the loopholes in the current electoral system, which have led to LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 4885 unprecedented chaos in the Legislative Council and District Councils returned by elections in the political system of SAR. These loopholes have not only made the Legislative Council become polarized with unceasing internal rift, but have also turned it into a platform for opposing the Central Authorities and the Government, spreading hatred and even advocating "Hong Kong independence", as well as colluding with foreign forces to endanger national security. In the booklet compiled to explain the amended Annex I and Annex II, we have included the Event Book of Chaos involving Non-pro-establishment Members in the Sixth Term Legislative Council (October 2016 to November 2020). The inferiorization of the Council to such a miserable state should be more bitterly detested by Members than my colleagues and I as they are the "victims" of such chaos.

Following the completion of the "Decision plus Amendment" move by the Central Authorities, the SAR Government must race against time and amend the relevant local laws in accordance with Annex I and Annex II. We must also strengthen the explanatory work towards the public so that more Hong Kong people will agree with the necessity and urgency of improving the electoral system as well as support the relevant work. As of last night, various Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux and I have held five internal briefing sessions within the Government and 68 consultation sessions with various sectors of the community, attended eight media interviews and distributed more than 100 000 copies of the booklets. The extensive explanatory work will facilitate the official scrutiny of the relevant bill by the Legislative Council later. I would like to thank the Legislative Council for accepting my earlier suggestion to form a subcommittee under the House Committee to first deliberate on the main contents of the Decision passed by the National People's Congress as well as the amended Annex I and Annex II to the Basic Law. The subcommittee chaired by Mr Martin LIAO has already held four meetings. Upon the SAR Government's introduction of the bill, the subcommittee will immediately be transformed into a Bills Committee to scrutinize the bill.

With the unremitting efforts of the relevant colleagues in the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau and the Department of Justice, I can confirm today that, subject to the consent of the Executive Council, the bill entitled Improving Electoral System (Consolidated Amendments) Bill 2021 ("the Bill") will be read the first time at an additional Council meeting to be held next Wednesday (14 April). The Bill comprises amendments to five primary legislation and the related subsidiary legislation, namely the Chief Executive Election Ordinance, the 4886 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021

Legislative Council Ordinance, the Electoral Affairs Commission Ordinance, the District Councils Ordinance, and the Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Conduct) Ordinance. Amendments will also be made to the Emergency (Date of General Election) (Seventh Term of the Legislative Council) Regulation passed last year to change the date of the general election of the Legislative Council. Given the limited time for scrutiny, we will try to work closely with the Bills Committee to facilitate its deliberation and consult the Chairman of the Bills Committee on the specific approach.

In accordance with the requirements of Annex I and Annex II, the specific matters to be dealt with by local legislation by SAR include the delineation of statutory organizations, advisory bodies, relevant organizations and eligible corporate electors involved in the Election Committee Subsectors and the functional constituencies of the Legislative Council; the delineation of geographical constituencies through direct elections; nomination procedures for candidates; the voting method and the composition of the Candidate Eligibility Review Committee, etc. SAR will also take measures in accordance with the law to regulate acts that manipulate or sabotage elections. Upon passage of the Bill, preparation of the three sets of elections to be held in the coming year will immediately commence.

While sparing no effort to take forward the various work to improve the electoral system, the SAR Government will stay vigilant in preventing and controlling the COVID-19 epidemic and promoting vaccination; I have also asked the Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux to continue to promote various policies and legislative work. As I mentioned in the letter to the President of the Legislative Council on 30 March, the SAR Government expects to submit, in the next few months, 16 other bills involving economic and social matters and funding requests for 64 items with a commitment of over $135 billion for consideration by the Legislative Council. I would like to express my sincere thanks to the President of the Legislative Council for announcing that the Sixth Legislative Council will continue to have meetings during this summer recess until the general election for the Seventh Legislative Council begins, in order to complete the consideration of various issues closely related to people's livelihood. I extend my heartfelt thanks to Members for their cooperation and efforts.

Thank you, President.

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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Chief Executive will answer questions from Members.

Members who wish to ask questions please press the "Request to speak" button. Questions raised by Members should be as concise as possible. Members should not make arguments when asking questions.

After the Chief Executive has answered the question asked by a Member, the Member may forthwith ask a short supplementary question on his/her question. The Member concerned only needs to raise his/her hand and does not have to press the "Request to speak" button again.

MR WONG KWOK-KIN (in Cantonese): President, one of the objectives of improving the electoral system is to implement "patriots administering Hong Kong". A frequently discussed topic recently in society is that, to implement "patriots administering Hong Kong", apart from improving the governing team and the civil service as well as enhancing the governance capability, another issue is the nurturing of talents. I would like to ask the Chief Executive whether the Government has any concrete plans to train up some patriots as talents to administer Hong Kong and participate in governance.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I thank Mr WONG for his question. The question raised by Mr WONG is very precise. In fact, regarding the decision of the National People's Congress to authorize its Standing Committee to amend Annex I and Annex II to the Basic Law, one of the five objectives is to effectively enhance our governance capability through an improved electoral system. However, I have also said openly that even if there is a good electoral system together with a sound Legislative Council that can both complement and keep checks and balances on us, our governance capability will not be enhanced automatically. Talents are needed to enhance governance capability. Of course, as the SAR Government is the primary body responsible for the administration of Hong Kong, it is imperative for the Government to nurture governing talents. Planning in this regard is still underway, but I reckon that we have at least two of the following directions.

The first direction is to groom civil servants. We need to be more proactive in grooming civil servants, not only in respect of their governance capability but also their governance philosophy, which includes gaining a deep 4888 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 understanding of the spirit of "one country, two systems", the Constitution and the Basic Law. This is the only way to ensure that all members of the civil service are patriotic "administrators" of Hong Kong. Moreover, as far as the general training for civil servants is concerned, Members may recall that I had proposed the establishment of a civil service college in one of my previous policy addresses years ago. Certainly, we have been providing training for civil servants, albeit in a rather unsystematic manner and on a limited scale, and no emphasis has been placed on the features of the 170 000 civil servants that need to be trained. Therefore, I think the establishment of a permanent civil service college is badly needed, to which the Central Authorities have indicated strong support. It takes several years to establish a brand new civil service college. At present, site selection and design have already commenced, but there are still a number of years to go. Therefore, we will first reorganize the venues and facilities currently used for civil service training in the North Point Government Offices, and strive to set up a temporary civil service college by the end of this year for conducting the relevant training. We have also set up a very high-level advisory board, chaired by Dr Victor FUNG, to devise future training programmes for civil servants to enhance their understanding of the development of Hong Kong and Mainland and of the importance of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area, as well as broaden their international perspective.

The second direction is to nurture political talents for our community. In this connection, I hope the initiative will come from the community, be they political parties or think tanks, through which more talents for governance will be trained up. The SAR Government will offer full support. For example, if the trained talents want to gain some working experience in the Government, they may participate in the internship programmes offered for young people or take part in our job shadowing programmes to familiarize themselves with a Secretary of Department or a Director of Bureau. They may also join the various committees of the Government.

I think we can "walk on two legs". Political talents nurtured in the latter way do not belong to the civil service. I would like to call on all the political parties present to work with us. If the Government and the Council do not have any talents for governance, then even the best system cannot help enhance the overall governance capability of the SAR Government for serving Hong Kong people. Thank you, Mr WONG.

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MR WONG KWOK-KIN (in Cantonese): President, I have a follow-up question. As we all know, talents need practical experience before they can become the "patriots administering Hong Kong". I thus want to ask a more specific question: Will the Government consider or has it formulated any plans for creating additional posts such as Under Secretaries or Political Assistants in the various Policy Bureaux, so that more talents can be groomed in the real working environment?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I do agree, in principle, with Mr WONG on this matter, because in reality, political work is somehow related to governance efficacy and may be different from the work of civil servants. However, as Members may be aware, I will soon finish the fourth year of my term of office. Thus, there is not much room for the current-term Government to review afresh the establishment and number of politically appointed officials. I believe after the electoral system is improved, the next-term Government will have to seriously think about it, and increase the number of politically appointed officials to complement the civil servant workforce in the administration of Hong Kong when such a need arises.

MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, Hong Kong was plagued by fake news and false information during the period of "black-clad violence". Fake news surrounding San Uk Ling and "31 August" incidents had directly incited anti-police sentiments and riots. While no one had ever died in those incidents, there are still people who believe there were deaths till today. Worse still, false information has undermined Hong Kong's anti-epidemic efforts over the past year. When the Government called on members of the public to get tested, there was widespread publicity claiming that the collected DNA information would be sent to the Mainland; the "LeaveHomeSafe" mobile application launched for contact tracing has been smeared as stalking and spying on the people; and when the Government encouraged the public to receive vaccination, there were individuals or organizations making misleading or inaccurate remarks to smear the vaccines, which has deterred members of the public from receiving vaccination.

Chief Executive, you have started the work against the "weaponization" of doxxing, but false information has been undermining the Government's governance and social stability day after day and has certain implications on the 4890 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 work to improve the electoral system as well. May I ask when the Government will legislate against false information? What will be the direction?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I thank Ms QUAT for her question. Just now I said that Members were the biggest "victims" of the chaos in the Council, I think the SAR Government is likewise the biggest "victim" of fake news. We can see from the examples cited by Ms QUAT that our work has been implemented with great difficulties in the past two years, because whatever we said would be distorted and smeared right away. I have taken this issue very seriously. Among the several priority legislative initiatives announced by me at the Chief Executive's Question and Answer Session on 4 February, a series of work is related to information dissemination, doxxing and privacy infringement. Regarding the work in this area, we will accord priority to the amendment of the Personal Data (Privacy) Ordinance and complete at least certain tasks. This is because the issue has been discussed at a Panel meeting of the Legislative Council, and the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data had indicated strong support to the work in this regard. We will strive to introduce the relevant bill in this legislative session.

As for the dissemination of fake news or the spreading of hatred messages on the Internet, which is of grave concern to Mrs Regina IP, a study is now underway to see how foreign governments deal with the issue. As a matter of fact, in recent years, even foreign governments (including the so-called "Western democracies") need to face up to this issue to avoid difficulties in governance. While some address the issue by focusing on the election process, some address by adopting a general day-to-day approach. Although a study is now underway, I am afraid that we may not manage to introduce a bill in this legislative session. However, Ms QUAT can rest assured that the relevant work will be expeditiously carried out.

MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, I notice that all government departments are busy dealing with fake news and false information day after day. Doing this day in day out is not only a waste of Hong Kong's time, but also a waste of the time of government officials who could have used it to address livelihood and economic problems. Therefore, I consider this an extremely pressing issue. Chief Executive, will you undertake to complete the relevant legislative work against false information and fake news within your term of office?

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CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): The Government will address this issue step by step. Upon completion of the study, we will decide whether to take the legislative approach. A bill will then be drafted and submitted to the Legislative Council, and this involves a lot of steps. Yet, I can promise that I will take care of this issue personally and urge the relevant Policy Bureau to follow up on it.

MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, I have repeatedly put the same question to the Environment Bureau, the Food and Health Bureau and the Development Bureau in this Chamber, but none of them have given a satisfactory answer. Therefore, today, I would like to take this opportunity to seek your advice. The development of the Greater Bay Area ("GBA") is a policy of our country and, as you often say, there should be collaborative development with the cities in GBA to foster a win-win situation. You frequently talk about the GBA policy, but I noticed that your officials seem to have failed to implement your GBA policy, or they may have given empty talks or turned a deaf ear to your words. It turns out that they have placed all obnoxious facilities―landfills, incinerators and food waste treatment facilities―at the centre of GBA, i.e. the North District. This so-called border area―as described by them―is the centre of the development of GBA. If they had the concept of GBA development in mind when they formulated the relevant policies, how could they have set up 200 000 columbarium niches, 10 dead body incinerators and 30 funeral homes at the centre of GBA? How could they have arranged the "Funeral City" to sit at the centre of three boundary crossings? I would like to ask how much thought your team has given to the concept of the Development Plan for GBA and how serious they look at the matter.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr CHAN for his question. I noted the community's concern about this issue recently, but I think this should be considered from a historical perspective. The use of land in Hong Kong has its own history, which started with the Hong Kong Island and then extended to Kowloon and the New Territories years ago. Judging from this historical perspective, the North District used to be a relatively remote place in the past, thus many things that people did not want to see in the urban areas had been placed in the North District. This is a historical perspective. There is no such thing as individuals or government officials turning a blind eye to them, but because government officials did not have a crystal ball. I believe the project you just mentioned was planned at least a decade ago. Perhaps none of us could 4892 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 foresee such a substantial change a decade ago, and that is, the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao GBA would be escalated to the level of state economic plan. Following the historical line of land use, such as those landfills, I can fully understand the current predicament.

First of all, I must point out that we have not intentionally―I know that some people are watching this Question and Answer Session, especially those living in Shenzhen―we have not intentionally done so on the knowledge that there will be an awesome GBA, the Shenzhen Port Economic Belt Development built with the concerted effort of our government and the Shenzhen Municipal People's Government, and the innovation and technology park at "one river, two banks" long desired by us. We have not planned to place those probably unpopular projects there in the full knowledge of the presence of the above mentioned developments. There is indeed a historical process. The historical process has come to this point―and we managed to come to this point with support as we need to apply for funding for the advance works of all those projects―as members of the public or people in both places, including Legislative Council Members, have expressed concern, we will figure out a better arrangement by all means on the premise of historical change and the need to satisfy Hong Kong's livelihood needs―many people said that they have nowhere to live, nor do they have any columbarium niches after they die―e.g. adopting a design that can minimize the negative visual impact of the facilities on the surroundings. So, this is the current situation.

If this project is completely abandoned, this will add fuel to the long-standing concern of many Members present, i.e. there are not enough columbarium niche facilities in Hong Kong and family members have to wait for a long time before their deceased relatives and friends can be laid to rest or cremated―cremation is, to a certain extent, the service that members of the public would like to have as soon as possible. We are not dealing with a brand-new project, but one that has been planned for a long time. If we call it to a halt all of a sudden, there will be immense impacts. This is not only a matter of GBA, but also a pressing livelihood issue for more than 7 million people in Hong Kong. I can tell Mr CHAN that I am also very much concerned about the matter and my concern does not start today. We realized a year or so ago that the provision of these facilities at the doorstep of GBA might arouse concerns among the residents on the Mainland or in the North District. We will therefore LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 4893 demand the departments responsible for the construction to seriously consider how the facilities should be built and how the related facilities should be managed in the future.

MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Cantonese): President, I am not talking about a narrow scope issue regarding district interests, but highlighting that there are serious planning mistakes. Chief Executive, your colleagues may not have told you that also within the North District, there is a plan to build in Wo Hop Shek―you should know what kind of place Wo Hop Shek is―a public housing estate providing 4 000 units for 10 000 residents. This will provide abodes for the living and the dead in one place. Furthermore, you are going to build a new large-scale "Funeral City" at the centre of GBA near the boundary crossings. How are you going to convince the public from a logical and planning point of view? Having heard you mention just now that the project can be postponed, adjusted in scale or even re-examined, I earnestly hope that you will look into the matter and think about it.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I have not said that the project will be re-examined. I was explaining to Mr CHAN that it is difficult to overturn it. Land planning is a characteristic of Hong Kong. Covering an area of 1 100 sq km, Hong Kong has adopted a very intensive development model. This is why we can see that many places are relatively crowded, and it is possible to find the co-location of certain facilities that should generally not be provided side by side. This explains why the current-term Government attaches so much importance to the development of new land, which also has the support of Members. Through Lantau Tomorrow and the reclamation of artificial islands, we will obtain new land and additional space for mobilization. In the absence of new land, we will have our hands tied up and the disharmony of land use as Mr CHAN has mentioned will appear time and again. In recent years, we have tried our best to make these communities more liveable through planning, design and greening, so as to reduce people's feeling of discomfort.

MR ABRAHAM SHEK (in Cantonese): President, I am really thankful to the Chief Executive and various officials for explaining the new improved electoral system to our industry yesterday. On behalf of the real estate and construction industry, I express strong support for this proposal. At the same time, we are 4894 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 very supportive of the National Security Law that brings social stability to Hong Kong. After three years, we now realize what social stability is. While this is brought to us by the National Security Law, we believe improving the electoral system will bring political stability to our society. Once we resume social and political stability, state leaders expect us to resolve our social conflicts and deep-seated contradictions.

My question is: Given that the Basic Law has brought us stability and prosperity, the third step will be prosperity and social harmony, so may I hear from the Chief Executive how we can complete the third step―after securing stability―by achieving prosperity and returning to the normal path?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I thank Mr SHEK for his question. It will take a lot of time to answer this question in detail. When I compiled the Policy Address 2020, I thought that as national security and social stability had been secured―of course, I did not know at the time that there would still be an improved electoral system, but I did hope to have a better social environment which would allow us to deal with the various problems―the title "Renewed Perseverance" should be used in last year's Policy Address, which contains more than 200 new initiatives. What is more, an improved electoral system will make our society more harmonious and the Council more supportive of the implementation of policies by the SAR Government. I am confident that many initiatives therein can be implemented step by step, which include carrying out the work relating to housing, land as well as innovation and technology, and bringing about better development for various trades and industries. Thus, I think all we need to do is to take forward, one by one, the initiatives proposed under the blueprints in the Policy Address published in November last year. Perhaps Members may not fully understand the psychological struggles I had gone through in compiling this Policy Address, but I think it is time to get back on track and start afresh, and make our best efforts to resolve every single issue.

Although there is only a year or so to go before the end of my term of office, we will not let go of any opportunity to do what we have promised the community. Nor will we relax our efforts or stop making plans because the term of office is about to end or it is no longer our business. As you can see from the Policy Address and the sustainable development recently implemented, all of them are very long-term plans―achieving carbon neutrality by 2050 and ceasing the new registration of fuel-propelled private cars in 2035 or earlier are very LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 4895 long-term tasks―we will continue to take forward these initiatives. I hope that there will be another chance for me to discuss with Members in detail how our economy will be relaunched with renewed perseverance in the future.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Abraham SHEK, do you wish to ask a supplementary question?

(Mr Abraham SHEK indicated that he did not have any supplementary question)

MR MICHAEL TIEN (in Cantonese): The community is well aware of my positive stance on improving the electoral system and my relevant achievements. Therefore, I do not have any special questions on this today. However, many people want me to ask the Chief Executive about the progress of vaccination, which is highly unsatisfactory at present. For many people, one of the reasons to receive vaccination is to facilitate their future travel to the Mainland or overseas. Yet, the vaccine market seems to have been divided into two rival camps. For those who want to receive vaccination, they may hesitate over their choice of vaccines for fear that they will be denied entry to certain overseas places if they make a wrong choice. At present, Hong Kong residents will generally be allowed to return to Hong Kong after vaccination regardless of which of the two types of vaccines is selected because both are administered to the public. The question is whether they will be allowed to enter other places.

Here is my question. If the Chief Executive later negotiates the acceptance of vaccine passports with low-risk countries or regions―which certainly include the Mainland on the top of the list―can she fight for the acceptance of the two most popular and most talked about vaccines? If the Chief Executive undertakes to do so, I trust that this will surely help boost the vaccination rate. In addition, this will show that the Chief Executive's concern for Hong Kong people does not confine to national security and election under discussion, but also vaccination. This is the most pressing livelihood issue for now and everybody wants to know more about it. There are really many people asking me about this in the community.

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CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I thank Mr TIEN for his concern over the vaccination progress. In fact, I am also very concerned about it too. Our vaccination programme has been implemented for more than a month since 26 February. As of last night, the number of people who have received their first jab exceeded 500 000. Of course, there are also many people who have already received the first and second jabs. Yet, if we are talking about people who have only received the first jab of either Comirnaty or CoronaVac, the number is slightly above 500 000 and the vaccination rate is only about 7.5%. This is not ideal, especially when our vaccination capacity is taken into account. In some places, vaccination is not even available or the location is too remote. Hong Kong have capacity in the sense that we have sufficient supply of vaccines and comprehensive complementary services, including the provision of vaccination service at community vaccination centres, 2 000 private doctors and 18 general outpatient clinics, as well as online booking and electronic vaccination records. With these complementary services, I am really puzzled why we have failed to appeal, encourage and lure more members of the public to receive vaccination. I am all ears to hear Members' suggestions in this regard.

Mr TIEN has made a number of suggestions and some of them are within our capability, but some are not. For those within our capability, we have already put them into action. At present, employees of a number of industries are required to receive a bi-weekly nucleic acid test before certain permission is granted. For example, if catering premises wish to open for dine-in services in the evening, their employees must get tested. Our incentive is that employees who have received two jabs of vaccination will have antibodies after 14 days and can thus be exempted from the tests. This is an incentive. The case is the same for schools. Many school principals have expressed to me their wish for full resumption of half-day face-to-face classes, which is two thirds at the moment. Our response to them is that this is possible so long as their teachers and staff members complete the vaccination course. All these are concrete incentives, but they have yet to achieve the desired effects so far. So, I would like to make another appeal here.

As for the external incentives, as I said earlier, they are not entirely within our capability but we have been working very hard. I have asked the Central Authorities in person under what circumstances can they provide us certain convenience by waiving the 14-day quarantine requirement. I have also personally talked to the leaders of Guangdong Province about this, and we are now exploring the circumstances under which people flow between the two LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 4897 places can be resumed in an orderly manner without the need to quarantine for 14 days, though an immediate full resumption is impossible. As regards overseas efforts, we have resumed discussions on a travel bubble with Singapore. We will continue our work in this aspect, and liaise with low-risk countries in particular. If Members opine that vaccination is a major issue in our work, we will certainly endeavour to stop any vaccines recognized as safe and effective under the law of Hong Kong from being excluded or discriminated. Yet, there is an international perspective on this. Right now, the international community is doing something that the World Health Organization ("WHO") has expressed disapproval and objection and our country has also voiced concern, and that is, the "politicization of vaccines" and "nationalization of vaccines". Vaccines should be treated in a scientific manner. If WHO can later list a few more COVID-19 vaccines for emergency use, it will make our work much more easier. Among the two vaccines which have been authorized for emergency use in Hong Kong, Comirnaty is well-accepted internationally. I believe the Mainland-manufactured vaccines will also be recognized by WHO soon as they are already in use in many countries. With the recognition of WHO, the things Members want us to pursue will become much easier.

MR MICHAEL TIEN (in Cantonese): Thank you, Chief Executive. I once suggested in public that the Government should exempt people from the bi-weekly testing 14 days after they complete two jabs of vaccine, and the Chief Executive has done her job. Apart from that, I have made two other suggestions: First, can the "No-gathering Order" be relaxed from four to eight persons per table? Second, regarding people returning to Hong Kong, is it possible to grant entry permission to those who are now barred from entry after completing the 21-day quarantine? As for those who are currently allowed to enter Hong Kong after completing the 21-day quarantine, can they be exempted from the 14-day quarantine requirement after receiving two jabs of vaccination? These two suggestions will also bring much good.

I would like to mention in passing that the epidemic has rebounded sharply in the Philippines lately, and many employers of foreign domestic helpers ("FDHs") are worried, not knowing what is going on in the Philippines. If FDHs are barred from entry, we will be in great trouble. But if they are granted entry after receiving vaccination and undergoing 21 days of quarantine, I trust that everyone will be happy. Will the Chief Executive consider this suggestion? As this is all about overseas inbound travellers, the decision lies in Hong Kong.

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CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Thank you, Mr TIEN. We will give thought to all your suggestions. However, throughout the process from consideration to implementation, there will be some very practical considerations. For example, if we require inbound visitors to complete the vaccination course before entering Hong Kong and then quarantine for 21 days upon entry, we must first ascertain whether vaccines are available in their places of origin. Otherwise, it will be tantamount to barring the entry of people from places where vaccines are not available. Thus, there are some practical issues that must be taken into account. However, I can promise Mr TIEN that we will do all we can to appeal and encourage people to receive vaccination, and alleviate the distress caused to members of the public by the epidemic in the past year or so. This includes, as a number of Members have proposed to me, an extension of the Return2hk Scheme, under which Hong Kong residents returning from Guangdong are not required to quarantine for 14 days by providing a negative nucleic acid test result. We are planning to extend the Return2hk Scheme to cover places outside Guangdong. Meanwhile, some Mainlanders who have obtained quotas may also come to Hong Kong under the Come2hk Scheme. That is because they actually come from the same low-risk area, there is no good reason to treat them differently. Right now, there are a myriad of suggestions on our list. We will inform the public once we have sorted out and decided what to do.

MR JIMMY NG (in Cantonese): President, following the implementation of the legislation related to the oath-taking requirements for public officers and an improvement in the electoral system, I trust that we can build a governing team of patriots. However, in a number of Bills Committees or Panels, many government officials often consider American and European standards and practices. They seldom refer to our country's practices and standards, and even resist accepting them. A very recent example was last week's meeting of the Bills Committee which discussed matters on electronic cigarettes and heat-not-burn cigarettes. During the meeting, the government officials had not presented any latest standards of our country for discussion and it was me who put forward those standards.

I understand that we practise "one country, two systems", but we are now talking about the integration of Hong Kong with the Greater Bay Area ("GBA") to facilitate the flow of people, money and information. In policy formulation, if we do not give more consideration to … I am not saying that our standards and practices have to be on a par with those of the country, but if we do not take into LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 4899 consideration the national standards and policies in policy formulation, there is no way we can integrate into the development of GBA. In view of this, may I ask the Chief Executive whether you will or how you can make the SAR Government officials attach more importance to our country's science, practices and standards so as to enable Hong Kong to better integrate into the development of GBA?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I thank Mr NG for his question. This is a very important issue because as we position ourselves to better integrate the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region into the overall development of our country, we should set our mind on it. Of course, at the same time, we must not forget that we are required by the Central Authorities to practise "one country, two systems", which has given Hong Kong an inherent system and competitive edge, such as the common law system and absence of foreign exchange control. All these should be maintained. Yet, in order to create greater synergy in GBA, consideration should be made to our country's standards. Otherwise, our standards can no longer apply beyond the Shenzhen River, where other standards are adopted. How can we implement the measures then?

In fact, I have noticed some changes over the past few years. I have already requested a number of Policy Bureaux and government departments to think from the angle of the Mainland and GBA in their day-to-day work. Even for the papers prepared by the Executive Council, they do not only examine public responses and cost-effectiveness, but there will also be a paragraph about the impact on the Mainland, or the so-called "Mainland implications". However, I am afraid this might take a process. It is also a historical issue as we have adopted the Western standards in many respects. So, we cannot expect to see an abrupt change within a short time as there will be a process. I can, however, tell Mr NG that I have taken heed of and kept a close watch on this issue within the Government. In the steering committee for the development of GBA chaired by me, all Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux are members and we often meet to discuss the latest development of GBA and how Hong Kong can integrate into and gain benefits from it. When Shenzhen introduces any new policies, e.g. Shenzhen has just launched eight initiatives to facilitate residents of Hong Kong and Macao, we will explore how we can benefit from them. These are what we do every day.

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MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, one of the reasons for the Government's difficulties in administration is the frequent chaos and filibusters in the Legislative Council over the past years. With everything politicized, the Government could only get half the result with twice the effort. Consequently, Hong Kong's competitiveness had been slipping downhill and we have become an international political battleground. Noting that Hong Kong had plunged into a political stalemate, the Central Authorities had no choice but to take action and throw "combination punches" by first enacting the National Security Law to stop the forces that opposed China and created turmoil in Hong Kong, and then implementing "patriots administering Hong Kong" and improving the electoral system. Only with good governance in place can Hong Kong move forward to achieve the ultimate goal of making it a better place for members of the public to live and work in. However, under the new electoral system, there are worries that no divergent views will be heard or even accepted in the legislature. And, there are fears that the legislature of Hong Kong will be left with only one voice in the future.

I would like to ask the Chief Executive: After rationality is restored in the Council, how will the Government cash in on the new political situation and work together with Members to address Hong Kong's economic and housing problems as well as deep-seated conflicts? In the course of tackling these problems, how will the Government convince various sectors of our society that it truly welcomes and accepts a diversity of views, thereby encouraging the general public to stand united for the benefit of Hong Kong and speak up for its future?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Thanks to Mr CHAN for his question. What Mr CHAN said is correct. There was utter chaos in the past period of time, especially in the first few years of the current-term Legislative Council, posing enormous difficulties to governance. Of course, despite the extremely difficult situation, we still strive to get things done, albeit with great difficulty. On the other hand, I was also aware that this might be a deep-seated issue. It was this fear of the Legislative Council that has cast a shadow in the mind of some colleagues when formulating policies or making decisions and judgments. During our internal meetings, they might even ask whether it was necessary to bring certain matters to the Legislative Council for deliberation. Their motivation might somehow be "dampened" if there was a need to do so. Their passion for implementing the initiatives would be "dampened" by the possible distortions, smears or even personal attack and brawls in the Legislative Council. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 4901

Fortunately, the Central Authorities have taken timely action, or else more harm would be done. These are my observations and worries after 40 years of service. Now, I believe the situation is going to change, and after that, members of the public will have expectations for the Government and the Council. How can public expectations be met? Certainly, we all have to work hard. In my view, the most important of all is to work hard, identify the development direction of Hong Kong, and then move towards that direction with concerted efforts.

In fact, there are numerous things we want to accomplish. As the Chairman of the Finance Committee, Mr CHAN will notice that there are numerous proposals that various departments would want to submit to the Council for vetting and approval, hoping that they could be implemented. But on the other hand, we also agree that Hong Kong is a pluralistic society and should not become a place with only one voice. Therefore, in future, SAR officials including political officials and civil servants as well as Members, will have to seriously consider how to gauge public views. There was a time when we attached great importance to public engagement and held town hall meetings for all sorts of matters. I remember when I was the Secretary for Development back then, a number of town hall meetings were held for district-based development projects. Who destroyed this platform for gauging public views at the district level? The opposition camp did. They gatecrashed and made a scene at each and every town hall meeting, which necessitated the deployment of police officers to maintain law and order. As a result, nothing could be accomplished. I hope that such phenomenon will never occur. I can undertake to resume more frequent interactions with various sectors of society, especially the grass roots, with a view to taking heed of public views.

MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): I think all Members, be they returned by functional constituencies or direct elections, understand very well the actual needs of the general public or various sectors and the difficult problems faced by them. Therefore, I am certain that if the Government can really make good use of Members' knowledge about our society to improve policy implementation, it will absolutely be beneficial for Hong Kong. I hope the Government or its officials will take this advice on board and genuinely regard our advice as constructive views. Instead of thinking that our views were made out of personal or district interests, they should handle them in good faith. Of course, I also understand that Members do have a part to play. If there is something 4902 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 wrong with certain measures or their perspectives, Members do have an obligation to explain to members of the public and this should not be purely driven by political considerations. Anyways, I think a vast majority of Members are well aware of the needs of society. If the Chief Executive is willing to listen to our views, it will definitely be beneficial for Hong Kong.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I agree with Mr CHAN, and what he said is always made from the bottom of his heart. Let me cite a few examples. During a meeting held on the Wednesday and Thursday before Easter, the Council was having a debate on a non-binding motion proposed by Mr Kenneth LAU on rural development in Hong Kong. I listened to the entire debate which lasted for several hours, and found that there were many good suggestions. Many of them were proposals which government departments had normally refused to implement for this and that reason. Therefore, at the meeting with the Heads of Departments―attended by not only the Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux, but also over 100 Heads of Departments―held on the following day, which is Friday, I requested them to study seriously what could be done in respect of water supply, conservation, kaito services, refuse collection, etc. in the rural areas, especially on outlying islands. Although these places do not have a large population, we still have to adhere to the people-oriented spirit. I would like to once again call on my colleagues to listen and respond to Members' views in a serious manner.

MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, Hong Kong can be relaunched after improving the electoral system to implement "patriots administering Hong Kong". Only by putting aside political wrangling can we focus our minds on addressing some deep-seated issues, including economic development. This is very important. Although economic diversification has been a subject of discussion for many years, and re-industrialization has also been mentioned for a few years, it seems that not much progress has been made. Recently, I have done some research and found that in regions that have achieved successful re-industrialization, the manufacturing industry accounts for over 20% of the Gross Domestic Product ("GDP"). I may share with Members some figures: 26.5% for Israel; 24.8% for Singapore; 28.4% for Austria and only 7.6% for Hong Kong. These figures were recorded in 2017.

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Chief Executive, I would like to ask whether the SAR Government will consider making a breakthrough by setting a rigid target specifying the future contribution of the manufacturing industry to our GDP. Such target can serve as a yardstick for measuring effectiveness, and an effective tool for spurring and promoting the development of re-industrialization. As I am aware, the Chief Executive has taken the first step by setting a goal for the expenditure on research and development ("R&D"). I would like to ask whether the Chief Executive will go one step further and set a percentage target for the contribution of the manufacturing industry to Hong Kong's GDP, thereby promoting re-industrialization effectively.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): President, while Hong Kong's economy needs diversified development, the current service-oriented economy is the result of a historical process which has brought our economy unlimited benefits. Besides, the high-quality and reliable service industries of Hong Kong have also given us an edge in participating in the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area or the Belt and Road Initiative. While we are promoting economic diversification in Hong Kong, I do not find it appropriate to set a rigid target for any particular sector. Even the financial industry does not need any rigid targets. If an industry performs well, its share in GDP will increase naturally. During the few years since my assumption of office, the share of the financial industry in Hong Kong's GDP has increased from 17% to 21%, but this is certainly attributable to the contraction of other industries. As other industries contract and the financial industry expands, the latter's share in GDP will therefore increase. Since such percentages are relative figures, it is not quite appropriate to set any target based on them.

Hong Kong actually has considerable potential for re-industrialization, or what is now known as Industry 4.0. We are not going to engage in manufacturing industries that require a great deal of manpower, land and industrial plants. What we need is some high-end manufacturing industries, which are now taking shape. Yesterday, I visited the Hong Kong Science Park and found that one of the projects is the manufacturing of robots for healthcare purposes. The whole manufacturing process takes place in Hong Kong. Of course, some robot parts are sourced from different places, but hopefully the assembly and production will be carried out in Hong Kong in the future. We definitely support such projects. In fact, we have allocated funding for R&D of such projects. The Advanced Manufacturing Centre will be established in Tseung Kwan O Industrial Estate in the future. While we will continue with 4904 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 such efforts, we must find out how the manufacturing industries of Hong Kong should be positioned to achieve the greatest effectiveness. At the moment, I think given our R&D capabilities, we have an edge in those manufacturing industries that do not require a great deal of land and industrial plants. Before the R&D-based manufacturing industries reach the stage of mass production, there is a positioning that we can give play to and we will continue to work hard on this.

MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, I am also aware that Hong Kong definitely has potential for re-industrialization. Why have I cited Israel and Austria as examples? Because with a modest population of some 8 million, these places can likewise develop high-end industries. I agree with this direction. But why would I suggest the setting of targets? I think even if we look at the Mainland―our country―there are different yardsticks for measuring the implementation of various work. So, I hope you may go back and think about it. The setting of such targets will mark a new breakthrough, and I believe you will continue to promote the development of re-industrialization.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): In response to Mr CHOW's remarks, we need to convey the following message in a more open and forceful manner: there are still prospects for Hong Kong's industry, which is nevertheless that particular kind of industry. We should not give our youngsters an impression that Hong Kong has only service industries but no industrial or manufacturing sector, or all we have is the financial industry. Actually, Hong Kong does have the potential and ability to achieve economic diversification. Thank you, Mr CHOW.

MR CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, the National People's Congress ("NPC") passed the Decision of the National People's Congress on Improving the Electoral System of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("the Decision") to put the electoral system of Hong Kong back on the right track, and provide the legal basis for Hong Kong's implementation of "one country, two systems". A vast majority of the public and the financial services industry strongly support the Decision. It is believed that upon the successive implementation of the National Security Law and the improvement of the electoral system, the political and economic development will be more stable and sustainable.

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However, I also notice that some people and media with ulterior motive have kept smearing NPC's Decision. When interviewed by foreign media organizations, they described the day on which NPC passed the Decision on improving the electoral system as the darkest day ever in Hong Kong, and vowed to boycott all future elections. This may prompt the foreign investors to, as a result of a failure to obtain update information on the real situation of Hong Kong, incorrectly assess the situation in Hong Kong, thereby undermining their confidence. I would like to ask the Chief Executive: Apart from promoting the improvement of the electoral system locally, will the SAR Government make use of its overseas Economic and Trade Offices to launch vigorous promotion in places such as Europe and the United States in particular, so that they understand the improvement of the electoral system will not only bring about long-term, prosperous and stable development of Hong Kong, but will also ensure the steadfast and successful implementation of "one country, two systems"?

Another point is that, as Hong Kong's securities market is facing unreasonable suppression by the United States and fierce competition from neighbouring rivals, will the Government encourage the Stock Exchange to, under the current global financial turmoil, remove all unnecessary restrictions and regulations, eliminate the obstacles arising from unreasonable and obsolete laws, and simplify Hong Kong's listing mechanism, so as to further attract and encourage overseas companies to set up headquarters in Hong Kong, thereby rendering our international financial centre more competitive as well as making Hong Kong society more prosperous and stable?

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Christopher CHEUNG, you have raised two questions.

Chief Executive, please reply.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Regarding the first part of Mr CHEUNG's question, the observation made by Mr CHEUNG is accurate. What has made us so angry over the past one-odd year is that foreign media reports about Hong Kong were utterly biased. Some overseas governments have smeared Hong Kong or the efforts made by the Central Authorities in supporting Hong Kong, and overplayed these matters. We were furious about all these. In relation to the relevant work, on the one hand, the State Ministry of Foreign Affairs has been 4906 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 refuting and clarifying time and again; on the other hand, officials have been deployed to explain and give an account of the facts to the United Nations Human Rights Council. Also, a speech for six to seven minutes was made by me at the United Nations Human Rights Council last year. Of course, overseas Economic and Trade Offices do have an important role to play. I conducted a briefing session for these offices on the night of 30 March, explaining to them the justifications for the improved electoral system and the reasons for taking this step. This helps to put the minds of people who would do business and invest in Hong Kong at ease, and our work in this respect will continue. In fact, currently, once our overseas offices notice any smearing reports by overseas media, they will immediately write to them. Of course, there is no way we can tell whether this will achieve any effect or whether the letters will be published, but we can at least put on record that their reports are wrong and not facts. We will continue with our work in this respect.

Regarding the question on the Stock Exchange, while it is a listed company which operates independently, we support all of its measures that are conducive to attracting overseas and local companies to list on the Hong Kong stock market. In principle, I will definitely support all attempts to remove unnecessary restrictions and regulations. This also applies to the various government departments, especially when it is impossible to increase their establishments or secure funding in times of a tight budget. It is hoped that they can cope with the increasing workload by removing all unnecessary restrictions and regulations. I believe the Financial Leaders Forum led by the Financial Secretary will definitely discuss how to make Hong Kong's financial industry more competitive.

MR CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, after adopting the "Decision plus Amendment" approach to improve the electoral system, we can now ensure "patriots administering Hong Kong" as the candidates in the Chief Executive Election will be patriots. So will be the candidates in the Legislative Council elections. Even if Members of the Legislative Council have different opinions, they will not paralyse the operation of this Council; obstruct the delivery of the policy address by the Chief Executive; prevent her from attending the Question and Answer Session like that of today; indiscriminately veto important government motions and undermine the governance of the Government. Nor will they collude with foreign powers to urge for sanctions on public officers of the SAR Government.

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I believe after the Legislative Council passes the Third Reading of the Improving Electoral System (Consolidated Amendments) Bill 2021 ("the Bill"), the SAR Government will be able to demonstrate its executive-led style of governance and create a stable and favourable environment for it to enhance its governance, with a view to addressing the long-standing deep-rooted problems. I sincerely hope that the SAR Government can make some achievements under the new circumstances. In order to do so, Chief Executive, the SAR Government must seize the opportunity to rebuild the relationship between the Executive and the Legislature, and enhance the performance of public officers. Referring to the enhancement of public officers, I do not simply mean their performance in responding to Members' questions in this Council, but also their performance in increasing administrative efficiency to demonstrate their determination to solve people's livelihood problems. May I ask the Chief Executive whether she has any specific thoughts about these two aspects?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr CHEUNG for his question. I agree with the remarks made by Mr CHEUNG just now. As I said in my earlier response to another question, after improving the electoral system to ensure that the Legislative Council will allow for rational interaction as well as complement and keep checks and balances on us, it is also necessary for the Executive Authorities to strive its best efforts―given that we bear the greatest responsibilities, it is imperative for us to strive our best effort.

Referring to the two aspects mentioned by Mr CHUENG, the first one is the relationship between the Executive and the Legislature. Here, I must stress that we do not expect the Legislative Council to become a "rubber stamp", nor do we have the wishful thinking that it will support each and every of our policies. As long as Members are patriotic, love Hong Kong and do real work for Hong Kong, Members can put forward different policy proposals; oppose our funding applications and reject some of our work. However, the bottom line is that they must be patriots.

In the past few months, we have been rebuilding the relationship between the Executive and the Legislature. In my earlier opening remarks, I kept thanking Members for cooperating with us in our governance―an additional meeting has been arranged to specially deal with the First Reading of the Bill, otherwise we will have one week less for scrutiny. This is the result of amicable discussions. We are bound to do this now. If Members support an expeditious 4908 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 amendment of the local legislation to kick start the election process, their cooperation is necessary for holding additional meetings. I understand that Mr Martin LIAO, Chairman of the Subcommittee, is going to hold quite a number of meetings in order to intensively scrutinize a very complex bill. I think that the relationship between the Executive and the Legislature should be built on constant interaction, mutual respect and prior discussions, but not informing Members of what I have been doing only when a bill or proposal is submitted. Notwithstanding that, I appeal to Members' understanding that certain matters have to be kept confidential. This morning, I heard Mr Martin LIAO say that the Government failed to answer many of the questions raised because details of the institutions concerned and the meaning of eligible corporate voters could only be found in the Bill. Apart from the need to uphold the confidentiality requirement, I will encourage my colleagues to adopt a more open approach and communicate with the Legislative Council at an earlier stage. This also applies to the Executive Council because Mr CHEUNG, as a Member of the Executive Council, should be aware that Executive Council Members also wish to participate in policy discussions at the earliest possibility.

The second aspect is the performance of public officers. All I can say is that every one of us has been working very hard. In some cases, however, if Members do not support our policies or responses, I hope that they only target the issues but not individuals. We will spare no efforts in our work. Now that there is a better and more rational environment which is conducive to governance, I feel that every one of my colleagues is eager to achieve more. I am confident that in the future, we will make the Legislative Council feel that we respect Members and are very willing to collaborate with them to do more real work for Hong Kong.

MR CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN (in Cantonese): President, I thank the Chief Executive for her positive response, but I sincerely hope that the SAR Government will make all its officials, whether they are present or not, realize that the myriad of long-standing problems of Hong Kong will not be automatically solved because sufficient votes have been secured for government motions to be passed in the Legislative Council. The performance of public officers is reflected in their ability to solve social problems rather than merely securing sufficient votes in the Legislative Council.

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CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Thank you, Mr CHEUNG. Every one of us has heard your remarks.

DR JUNIUS HO (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, I am very glad that with vigorous and resolute actions, many problems have been rectified. For instance, while the necessary social atmosphere was lacking in the previous attempt to enact a national security bill in relation to Article 23 of the Basic Law, now that we finally have an enhanced version of the Law of the People's Republic of China on Safeguarding National Security in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. It can be said that problems with the rules and order of the Legislative Council which need to be corrected and seriously addressed have been rectified. Also, proposals for improving the electoral system have been rolled out recently. Things are becoming better step by step, and many Members have high expectations in the SAR Government.

Here, I sincerely hope that the executive team led by the Chief Executive will definitely have its efficiency increased, because this is not a matter of the pace of the SAR. Rather, reference should be made to the pace of our country. The pace of our country can be demonstrated by "Made in China 2025" and the plan to achieve technological independence by 2035. It is a pity to see that Hong Kong is currently subject to many limitations. I am very eager to have a new legislature, particularly when many obstacles have been removed in this term, and hopefully barriers and restrictions have been cleared for the Government.

Given that in our discussion on the Protection of the Harbour Ordinance last time, this Council hoped that the public officers would think twice, the relevant motion was voted down. But the fact is many problems remain unsolved. This Council will surely help if there are things that we can fight for by all means. For the Lok Ma Chau Loop ("the Loop") under discussion, the eight buildings planned to be built can only be completed in 2027, whereas the development of the entire Loop covering 85 hectares will only be completed in 2032 or 2033 at its earliest. That is unacceptable. What should be done to improve the situation? I hope that the targets can be achieved one after the other, and the more the better. As for Route 11 of 8.5 km long, the study has to take 10-odd years and will only be completed 14 years later. All these are under the eye of the public. The Chief Executive can strengthen her team by boosting its confidence; remove the barriers by amending the relevant laws and break free 4910 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 from the restrictions of town planning or environmental protection by making special arrangements under special circumstances. I hope that the Chief Executive will think more on these issues.

The current development of the North District, as mentioned by Mr CHAN Hak-kan earlier on, has resulted in mismatch. The Chief Executive responded that this was attributable to historical development, but can we forget about the historical development? How can we expedite the rectification? I believe it can surely be done. The Chief Executive's team should not give itself too many excuses. Under the approach of "consultants administering Hong Kong", consultants were given a lot of money and a great deal of time to do their job. Since there are so many talents in various government departments, is it necessary to spend so much time and money to engage consultants to conduct these studies? In fact, we are very experienced in that. This is the only question I would like to ask.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): President, I thank Dr HO for his question. In fact, given that the SAR Government has reached such a scale, it is worthwhile to conduct a review on whether there is any room to reduce manpower and enhance efficiency through restructuring or other means, particularly with the current advancement in technology. I fully understand the need to avoid fragmentation of responsibilities among government departments, and coordination should be enhanced. That is a huge task. The so-called public sector reform was last conducted before the reunification, and no serious public sector reform has been carried out since then. I dare not underestimate the difficulties involved. However, according to my experience, it is now time to deal with the matter. Otherwise, we will have to put in additional manpower and resources or engage a consultant whenever there is a new task. This approach is hardly sustainable. I will keep thinking to explore further room or opportunity to carry out the related work.

Nevertheless, I must add a footnote that the pace of our country is beyond our reach. Our country has an institutional advantage that is rare in the world, i.e. it can rally multitudes of support at a single call to achieve a common goal. We really do not enjoy such an advantage because to a certain extent, Hong Kong is a diversified and free society. It is our tradition to have people expressing different views. Take the anti-epidemic effort as an example. Where else in this world can fight the virus like our country did? I do not wish to raise the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 4911 expectations of Members and then let them down, saying that our pace is no match of our country because it can hardly be achieved. However, we will increase the pace in our way and it is hoped that Members will see some achievements in the days to come.

MR FRANKIE YICK (in Cantonese): President, Chief Executive, after the announcement of the Decision of the National People's Congress on Improving the Electoral System of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("the Decision"), I noticed that the opposition camp has been criticizing it as a regression in democracy. They mainly focused on the reduction, instead of a continuous expansion, in the number of directly elected Members to 20. Article 68 of the Basic Law provides that the method for forming the Legislative Council shall be specified in the light of the actual situation in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region―just now the Chief Executive also highlighted this in her opening remarks―and in accordance with the principle of gradual and orderly progress. The ultimate aim is the election of all the members of the Legislative Council by universal suffrage.

On 31 August 2014, the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress ("NPCSC") passed the decision relating to the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage and on the method for forming the Legislative Council in 2016 (i.e. the so-called "31 August Decision"). It was considered a forward step that could be taken in the light of the actual situation back then, but the proposal was unfortunately vetoed with objection from opposition Members. Subsequently, in Hong Kong, as Members may be aware, there were Occupy Central in 2014, riots in Mong Kok in 2016 and "black-clad violence" in 2019. Changes in the actual situation have led to the present NPC Decision. I do not think the Decision is a regression in democracy, but an appropriate adjustment made in the light of the actual situation. May I ask the Chief Executive to explain to the public how Article 68 of the Basic Law should be accurately interpreted?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I thank Mr Frankie YICK for the question. The present amendments are made to Annexes I and II to the Basic Law, and have not amended any provisions in Article 45 regarding the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage or Article 68 regarding the election 4912 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 of all the members of the Legislative Council by universal suffrage. However, as Mr YICK has correctly pointed out, there are conditions to be met in these two provisions. First, the actual situation has to be considered; then the principle of gradual and orderly progress has to be followed before achieving the "ultimate" aim. I am very grateful to Mr YICK for reminding us of the NPCSC's Decision made on 31 August 2014. I was the head of the "constitutional reform trio" then; and very regrettably, the proposal was vetoed by those who claimed to fight for democracy and promote universal suffrage.

Recently, I have referred to my concluding remarks made on 18 June 2015 when the proposal was vetoed, and I found that they are still applicable today. I said that if people did not accept that universal suffrage had to be achieved in accordance with the Basic Law and the principle of "one country, two systems", the ultimate aim could never be achieved. It is evident that since 2015, people have gone further and further away from the right path and headed towards the wrong direction. Now that the mistakes have been rectified, we can return to the right track. While Article 45 and Article 68 are still in effect, I am fully confident that under this mechanism, the aim of universal suffrage can be achieved in the light of the actual situation and in accordance with the principle of gradual and orderly progress in the future. My conclusion is the same as that of Mr YICK. Amending Annexes I and II by the Central Authorities at the state level to improve the electoral system of Hong Kong this time around is not a regression in democracy, but the laying of a more solid foundation for universal suffrage in the future. If we return to the right track, we can proceed steadily to our final destination; if we go astray, we will never achieve our goal. That is the phenomenon observed by us in these few years, and there is now an opportunity for us to return to the right track.

MR LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, yesterday, some elderly representatives from various districts and I held a discussion on the Budget's proposal to hand out $5,000. Yet, this is not the focus of the question that I am going to ask the Chief Executive today. Today, the focus of my question to the Chief Executive is as follows. Under the improved electoral system, the Legislative Council will be composed of 90 seats divided in the ratio of 2:3:4 and there will be 20 directly elected seats. An elderly person remarked back then that the proportion of 20 directly elected seats out of 90 seats was rather small. He asked how public dissatisfaction with government policies can LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 4913 be reflected by Members of the Legislative Council who are obliged to collect public views, or how members of the public can urge the Government to improve its governance through Legislative Council Members. Perhaps the Chief Executive can take this opportunity today to explain the situation to these elderly people.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr LEUNG for his question. The opinions of various sectors of society, particularly the grass roots, are very important to the governance of the Government. They can ensure that our governance is people-oriented and able to reflect public aspirations. While one way of thinking about public opinion is to look merely at the number of Members to be returned in the geographical constituencies through direct elections, past experience told us that some candidates might undertake to reflect public opinion during the election campaign, but they turned out to focus merely on political issues after being elected. If we look at the District Councils today, we may notice this phenomenon.

We will make good use of the channels for collecting public opinion in the districts. In addition to the 18 District Offices, Members may also notice the inclusion of the new Election Committee ("EC") subsectors, which precisely seeks to allow more voices of the grass roots and the community to be reflected to EC. Certainly, EC is only responsible for elections and will not assist in our day-to-day administration, but since representatives of Area Committees, grassroots associations, associations of Chinese fellow townsmen or Hong Kong members of relevant national organizations have been included into EC, we will not miss the chance to make good use of these associations and organizations to gauge public views. Mr LEUNG can advise these elderly people to approach the local Area Committees. For example, if they are very concerned about the fire safety problems of the tenements in which they are residing, they can contact the relevant District Fire Safety Committees. If they are worried about law and order, they can relay their concerns to the District Fight Crime Committees. Or, if they are townsmen of Guangdong or Zhejiang, they can voice their concerns or aspirations for policy initiatives to the relevant associations of Chinese fellow townsmen. We will certainly make good use of these channels to broaden the base of public opinion in the future.

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MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, I fully support the present legislative work on improving the electoral system of Hong Kong, including the "11 March Decision" made by the National People's Congress ("NPC") and the amendment of Annex I and Annex II to the Basic Law made by NPC's Standing Committee, which seek to plug the loopholes and remedy the defects in the system, as well as fully implement "patriots administering Hong Kong".

However, there are views in the community that the next-term Legislative Council will become "a place with one voice" and "rubber stamp" because the eligibility of candidates running for the next-term Legislative Council election will have to be validated by the Candidate Eligibility Review Committee ("CERC"), and it seems that CERC tends to be composed of principal government officials. Will this end up screening out people who have previously criticized or disagreed with certain government measures or policies, while allowing those "yes-men" who support the Government on everything to enter the race? Will this lead to the situation mentioned by me just now? What does the Chief Executive have to say in defence?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): President, the question of Mr TSE is about the basis on which eligibility of candidates running for election in future will be determined during the eligibility review process. I can make it clear here that there is a legal basis and it is not an arbitrary, subjective and selective decision. The legal basis has been provided in the local legislation. On the one hand, there are some very objective conditions, such as the candidate's age, whether he fulfils the residence requirement, whether he has secured sufficient number of subscribers, whether he has any criminal records, etc. On the other hand, there are national security requirements as the candidates are required to bear allegiance to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR") and uphold the Basic Law. This will be "codified" by way of an amendment bill concerning the oath-taking of public officers under scrutiny. For this reason, there is no question of arbitrary rejection by CERC of candidates who have neither contravened those objective conditions nor failed to meet the requirements of the national security review.

I hope Mr TSE can explain to his sector that everything will proceed in accordance with the law. Particularly, under this arrangement, candidates are required to swear allegiance to HKSAR and uphold the Basic Law according to the oaths taken when they stood for election. We have only added one more LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021 4915 tool, and that is, the national security review to be conducted by the Hong Kong Police Force. Result of the review will be submitted to the Committee for Safeguarding National Security of HKSAR. An opinion will be issued to CERC for those who do not comply with the requirements of the national security review. In fact, the establishment of CERC has upgraded the existing requirements of Returning Officers ("ROs") in the election ordinances. Currently, ROs are staff from the Government, but in the future, the eligibility of a certain candidate will be determined by a committee rather than by one person alone. I hope everyone can rest assured that the work will be dealt with in a very stringent and cautious manner.

MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): As the Chief Executive also pointed out just now, the work previously done by ROs will now be done by CERC. I believe the number of members in CERC will not be very great. However, in the future elections, including those for the Election Committee and the Legislative Council, I think the number of candidates will be very great and the timetables will also be very tight. Does the Chief Executive think there is a chance for CERC to fail to screen out some candidates who do not love the country and Hong Kong due to hasty assessment of a great number of people wishing to run for elections within a short period of time?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): The electoral work is very strict. Yes, it is true that arranging three sets of elections in less than one year is a very great challenge to us. It is also a very great challenge to the responsible Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau, the Department of Justice as well as the Registration and Electoral Office. Therefore, we will ensure that they have sufficient resources to conduct some preliminary assessment before a decision is made by CERC. Mr TSE can rest assured that we will definitely make all-out efforts. We will not be stingy in providing manpower and resources, and will get the job done properly.

MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): President, after Hong Kong experienced "black-clad violence" and political turmoil, the Central Authorities took the initiative at the national level to improve the electoral system of HKSAR. This arrangement does not only have a solid legal and political basis, but also a solid base of public opinion in Hong Kong. The joint signature campaign of 4916 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021

2.38 million members of the public and the findings of the relevant public opinion polls have formed the basis of public opinion. However, at the same time, there are different voices and opinions in society, which are full of misunderstanding. To enhance the community's understanding of the new electoral system, the Chief Executive and government officials have stepped up their explanatory work to the public and different sectors of the community on various occasions, such as press conferences and briefing sessions.

I wish to ask the Chief Executive: What major opinions or doubts have you heard from society concerning the new electoral system so far? Have you heard of any misunderstanding which needs particular clarification?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Thank you, Mr LIAO. In fact, our explanatory work has started since 30 March. As I said just now, we have conducted 73 briefing sessions, among which 68 are for various sectors of the community and five for government staff. There will be dozens more of these public briefing sessions in the future. Yesterday, I attended two of them, with one for the estate sector and the other for the engineering sector. While feeling greatly encouraged because everyone spoke in support of the arrangement and considered that the chaos should not continue, we have also heard some views in these two sessions and collected some more on other occasions as reported by my colleagues. Summarizing the views collected, we can say it is a problem with time. They share the concerns with Members: Is there sufficient time to do the work? Is it possible to complete all the work? Given that people may be required to re-register as electors, do they have an understanding of the new electoral system? Will anyone forget to register as corporate electors or individual electors? This is a problem with time. Chairman LIAO, I am not putting pressure on you. However, the earlier you pass the bill, the earlier we can kick off the work in this respect, such as explaining to each subsector how to register as an elector. Time is a cause of concern.

Besides, as it is still unclear about the meaning of "eligible corporate voters" or "nominating organizations" as referred in Annex I, there are many questions surrounding the issue of fairness, e.g. whether organizations with insufficient representativeness will be included when there are other more representative organizations in the same subsector. These are the questions I have heard. Upon the publication of the bill next week, most of the answers will be known.

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There is a genuine need for us to enhance our explanatory work at different stages. At this stage, we need to explain why the electoral system has to be improved and the advantages of the improvement. After the publication of the bill, we have to explain the provisions therein and in which legislative provisions can we find the contents mentioned in Annex I. After the bill is passed, the third stage will focus on explaining the procedures of the election process, which involves issues relating to the registration of individuals and organizations. Upon completion of the above stages, there will be another problem when it comes to the elections. This morning, I heard many people say that the electoral arrangements were very complicated. There is a genuine need to look into it. Dr Priscilla LEUNG seemed to have said that the arrangement was very complicated and people might fall into a "trap" very easily. We need to do a lot of work in this respect. What is more, as I have announced earlier on, the present consolidated amendments bill will at the same time deal with some improvements of the polling day arrangements, including "caring queues" or the use of an electronic poll register. Therefore, electors will have some new experiences when casting their votes and all these need our explanation. Otherwise, confusion will arise. In conclusion, we need to constantly disseminate accurate information to the general public to ensure that there will not be false information disrupting the compact work schedule. We will definitely work very hard in this respect.

MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): President, I would like to follow up on the answer given by the Chief Executive just now. At present, some members of the community still regard the improvement of the electoral system as a retrogression of democracy. Some people even describe it as a requirement for the candidates running for election to prove that they have not said anything that displeases the people in power. These remarks are of course extremely ridiculous. However, as the saying goes, "three people spreading reports of a tiger make you believe there is one around". How can the Government step up its efforts in dispelling such misunderstanding and misinformation, so as to prevent these paradoxical arguments from undermining public confidence in the new electoral system?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): As I have said earlier and repeated time and again, we have to step up publicity and disseminate accurate information through different means.

4918 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 April 2021

However, as Mr LIAO has made the point, I wish to refute one thing here. According to a very experienced party member and former Legislative Council Member, requiring someone who aspires to run for the Legislative Council or Election Committee election to obtain nomination votes from each of the five sectors is a humiliation. I think this is totally wrong. All candidates running for an election, including me four years ago―I ran for an election four years ago―I knew perfectly well that 300-odd Election Committee members would definitely not give me their votes as they had said so publicly. Nevertheless, I still humbly explained to them my visions and my experience in administering Hong Kong in the hope of securing as many nomination votes as possible. I have never had a feeling of humiliation, though it was very embarrassing indeed. I might be scolded for an hour as soon as we met and the meeting was always arranged at very special time, say, it took place at a certain place at 9:00 pm. But how can this possibly be humiliation? People who pursue a career in politics and aspire to run for elections should not regard obtaining nomination votes as a humiliation. Anyone who says so does not have the slightest understanding of the spirit of election and democracy. We will continue to refute such remarks whenever we see or hear them in future. Thank you, Mr LIAO.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Chief Executive's Question and Answer Session ends.

The Chief Executive now leaves the Chamber. Members stand up please.

(The Chief Executive left the Chamber)

ADJOURNMENT OF MEETING

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now adjourn the Council.

Adjourned accordingly at 12:02 pm.