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Jazz Inside Magazine ISSN: 2150-3419 (print) • ISSN 2150-3427 (online) February-March 2019 – Volume 9, Number 11
Cover Photo and photo at right of Charles Tolliver By Eric Nemeyer
Publisher: Eric Nemeyer Editor: Wendi Li Marketing Director: Cheryl Powers Advertising Sales & Marketing: Eric Nemeyer Circulation: Susan Brodsky Photo Editor: Joe Patitucci Layout and Design: Gail Gentry Contributing Artists: Shelly Rhodes Contributing Photographers: Eric Nemeyer, Ken Weiss Contributing Writers: John Alexander, John R. Barrett, Curtis Daven- port; Alex Henderson; Joe Patitucci; Ken Weiss.
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CONTENTS 4 Charles Tolliver 8 Chuck Israels Visit these websites: CLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTS 20 Benny Green JazzStandard.com 13 Calendar of Events INTERVIEWSINTERVIEWS 28 Miguel Zenon Jazz.org 18 Clubs & Venue Listings 6 Jay Beckenstein JJBabbitt.com MaxwellDrums.com
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2 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 3 you know? And I’d go by his house and bring him a couple of my tunes, and he said, “Oh INTERVIEWINTERVIEW yeah, great, we’ll use that. Here’s one of mine.” It was that sort of thing. It was as if I had known him my whole life. It was quite a start for me. Charles Tolliver JI: Going to record with him for Blue Note, Fortuitous opportunities at just the right moments ... what kinds of direction, or what kinds of things did you experience from producers? Or Interview by Eric Nemeyer there were little places to go and jam, and did everything go in the studio as he wanted? there was a fellow named Jim Harrison who This is an excerpt from the full interview with was getting little gigs with Jackie because this CT: Well, one thing I remember was that Charles Tolliver. was really a tough time, even though he was Jackie was in that phase, he had already done recording at Blue Note. You know at that One Step Beyond… CT: When I was a teenager in high school time, gigs for journeymen—at that time, Jack- there was a little neighborhood pharmacy, I ie, basically that’s what he was, I mean, even JI: Exploratory freedom. delivered medicine from there and I used to though he had made some great Blue Note watch the two doctors who owned it mixing recordings, there was no work. Besides, he CT: Yeah. And so he was in that mode, and the medicine, and I thought that was cool. was drying out. And this fella told Jackie so even though bebop was hitting, I believe he And that stayed with me after I graduated about me, and he called me to make a record- really had already started to expand it. The high school. And I decided—you know, with ing without even hearing me. Just went on the first record I did with him, I mean, I had been chemistry, musicians, they’re into numbers word of this fella, Jim Harrison. And that’s practicing 2-5-1 chord progressions. And for- anyway, so mathematics, chemistry and all how it all started out. It’s actually amazing— tunately, I don’t know whether it was his deci- that was fun to work with. I got accepted into ’cause generally, the guys, they usually go sion—probably it was Alfred’s [Lion] deci- the School of Pharmacy at Howard, I trudged around, even Miles in those days would go sion—to have that rhythm section. I mean, through for about three years. It was hard be- out to different clubs and check things out … that record was quite something because it cause I was paying tuition. But, I mean, I was see if there’s anybody that he could use. So had bebop and free stuff. mostly in the fine arts building in my spare I’m forever in the debt of Jackie McLean. JI: But you were working on more traditional, sophisticated, harmonic kinds of vocabulary, “they expected you to get it already. and then going in and working with him while he’s suggesting to you that he wants some- thing freer, how did that hit you? If they tapped you to blow, then they CT: Well, it was quite something. One would expected that you were ready and be shaking in their boots, so to speak on their first record. But I think what helped me was that I’m very rhythmically inclined. You were there with what they want. So, know, having someone like Roy Haynes and Herbie Hancock there, it made all the differ- it was never a discussion about the ence. I think if it had been another drummer or a pianist, it might not have come off the way it did. That was a great start for me. music. And there were no rehearsals JI: What kinds of discussions did you have either, with Art Blakey there were no with Art Blakey?
CT: It was never about the music, because rehearsals. It was just expected that those men, they expected you to get it already. If they tapped you to blow, then they expected I would know the repertoire.” that you were ready and were there with what they want. So, it was never a discussion about the music. And there were no rehearsals ei- time, anyway. [laughs] And just one day ther, with Art Blakey there were no rehears- something really clicked. And I said, “I’m JI: What kinds of discussions did you have als. It was just expected that I would know the history.” I just packed up, came back home. with him that made a significant impact on repertoire. It seems like every time I got a gig Finding every jam session I could find. That your artistry and your development that you in those days with one of those great innova- was ‘63. might share with us? tors, there were always asking me, “who would you like to play with,” or, “who should JI: How did your association with Jackie CT: Well, really, to tell you the truth, we did- we get for this particular movement?” McLean develop? n’t talk so much about the music, except that he asked me, did I have any tunes. Maybe he CT: The summer of ‘63 I got back here and was already inside my head, or something,
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Charles Tolliver
CharlesFeature Tolliver
To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 5 having a Berklee education. Those moments don’t happen a lot. I can’t get around them. INTERVIEWINTERVIEW Eventually, my ear learns the most twisted of chords, given enough time. The whole beauty of jazz was its natural evolution. Somewhere along the line though, back in the 1960s, a Jay Beckenstein whole bunch of people tried to canonize it – to write it down, to put it in books, to tell you Founder of Spyro Gyra, Alto Saxophinst how to do it. The thing that attracted me to it in the first place was that it didn’t stay still. Interview By Eric Nemeyer en me by the hand and said, “Look this is what you’re lacking and this is what you’ve JI: Yes. And, if you heard ten different ver- This is an excerpt from the extensive interview got to work on.” But, I didn’t. To this day I sions of “Bye Bye Blackbird” by the same with Jay Beckenstein of Spyro Gyra miss it. I think there are holes in what I do group, playing it in the same key, at the same that might have been corrected early on if I tempo, each version was different, and you JI: One of the ways artists in jazz have in had a great teacher. I didn’t. It just wasn’t wanted to hear each different version. large part, developed their own styles and or there. So I did develop on my own. I guess the reputations, has been to apprentice—to play in up side to that is maybe that I don’t sound like JB: More than that, when I was growing up, the groups lead by high-profile, established anybody else. I can read music and play pi- every single Miles Davis record was a new jazz artists for extended periods of time. ano. But my approach to jazz is not a style of jazz. There was this amazing thing Could you comment on how your own inde- schooled approach. I have a very good ear – that was going on between 1955 and 1965. pendent path has helped or hindered your mu- maybe too good. Every teacher I had would Then, along came a lot of stuff that didn’t sic and opportunity in light of the aforemen- throw up their hands because I would refuse please traditionalists – electric instruments, tioned realities to read the music – and be able to play it back rock backbeats, combinations of styles. They anyway. A funny thing about Spyro with me then sort of took a step backwards and said we JB: I caught the very last, last little part of the is that the band can change the key of the better write the book. We better put things in apprenticeship era when I spent about a half tune, and I might not notice it. And, I’ll just canon – as if to say this is jazz and that is not. year with Charlie Mingus at school. I think play it in that different key but not know that I think that was a bad decision on everybody’s “the band can change the key of the tune, and I might not notice it. And, I’ll just play it in that different key but not know that I’m playing it in that different key. That kind of ear led me to just kind of do it, to be a singer. 95% of the time I can play what I’m hearing. But that other 5%, which would make me a more sophisticated player, would require a different kind of mental knowledge” there’s a difference as you go back in history I’m playing it in that different key. That kind part. Considerably later on, along came as to the availability to listen to things that of ear led me to just kind of do it, to be a sing- smooth jazz to lock it into some awful place; people have. Certainly, as you go back far er. 95% of the time I can play what I’m hear- and split it off into instrumental R&B. enough, apprenticeship is the only way you ing. But that other 5%, which would make me heard something that might influence you. a more sophisticated player, would require a You went somewhere to a band stand to hear different kind of mental knowledge – because
somebody else play it. It wasn’t like everyone my ears just want to go where they want to had a Victrola or there was MTV. More and go. So when someone is putting in chord “Encroachment more now, there are alternatives to the teacher changes that are twisted that are not in their of freedom will not come -student, one-on-one apprentice kind of thing. natural place – I can be thrown. At those about through one violent action or movement but will come about There are jazz programs in colleges. There are times, I do have to go, “here’s the chord through a series of actions that appear books on playing jazz. There is every kind of change, remember that.” Or, “play a G and to be unrelated and coincidental, but music you could possibly lay your hands on – you’ll hear where you go.” I’ll get through that were all along systematically and for free. There is a lot that somebody can different sections of harder harmonic kinds of planned for dictatorship.” learn now, without being an apprentice. I do things – the sort of thing that Tom Schuman wish though that in college someone had tak- plows through. At those moments I miss not — John Adams, 2nd President — Anton Chekhov
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On Bill Evans, Horace Silver and More JI: When you were playing with Bud Powell, what kinds of instructions, if any, or words of Interview by Eric Nemeyer lescence and the whole culture. wisdom did he impart to you that made a sig- Photo by John Meloy nificant impact on your development at the JI: Do you have a manager? time or ever since? Chuck: I lived in Cleveland Heights from 1946 to 52 and I liked it. It was next to Shaker Chuck: Well, I haven’t got one. As a matter Chuck: Wouldn’t that be nice if that had hap- Heights. It was just south of Shaker Heights. of fact, I do have someone here who helps me. pened? But Bud was, at that point, not fully They’re contiguous. I enjoyed my life be- I don’t have to tell him how to do things be- relating to the world. He had been traumatized tween the ages of 10 to 16, and I remember cause it’s his general character that attracted in a number of ways that I don’t know about. that the kids I went to junior high school with, me to a relationship with him in the first Barry Harris talks about it a little bit. He’d we all knew the names of all the guys on the place. been beaten up by the police. He’d been given Cleveland Indians because that was around electroshock therapy at Bellevue, and he was 1948, they won the World Series. JI: Could you talk about the music of Horace pretty much a mess. So my relationship with Silver which is the centerpiece of the new him was to show up on a bandstand and play. JI: That’s right, they won the series and 1948 album, and why you chose this as a focus for All he wanted to do was to get five francs so and 1954 when they played the New York your current project? he could buy a cognac which he wasn’t sup- Giants in the World Series—but nothing posed to have. So I didn’t have any real rela- since. Chuck: That was pretty easy. He died, and it tionship. I had plenty of relationship with caught my attention. He died last year, and I G.T. Hogan who was the drummer and with Chuck: Well, those were all people that we grew up loving his music, looking forward to Kenny Clarke who was also in Paris and with knew well. We knew everybody’s names. We all the new releases of it. I met him in 1956. whom I also played from time to time, and new who they were. I could tell you even to- There was a record producer named Tom Wil- Lucky Thomson whom I knew a little bit and day who they were. The kids also knew all the son. He was a Harvard grad, a black man, played with there and much admired. I had first chair players in the Cleveland Orchestra. who remained in Cambridge after he graduat- graduated from Brandeis, and I was doing my ed. And he had a record company called Tran- obligatory European trip after college. JI: That speaks to what culture was back then sition Records. I loved Tom. He was a real as opposed to today. mentor of mine and we had a close affection- JI: How did you find the atmosphere in Paris ate relationship. He was a few years older at the time, both in terms of the musical envi- Chuck: That’s right, and I thought that was a than I was, and he kind of took me under his ronment, as well as the way the Parisians and pretty good community. wing and he liked my playing. Because he Europeans related to Americans? liked my playing, I got on my first jazz record JI: Of course, the Cleveland Indians played in which was the one that he was producing in Chuck: The musical atmosphere was good, Municipal Stadium that had a center field that New York that had Cecil Taylor and John and the relationship with American jazz musi- was something like 900 feet away from home Coltrane and Kenny Dorham and Louis cians was that they were revered. And Bud plate. Hayes. was certainly revered, even though in a lot of ways he was a shadow of himself. But there Chuck: [Laughs] One of the bullpen pitchers JI: I remember that album. was great respect for his history and for his was Early Wynn, who rented our house one contribution to the music, more respect from summer when we were away. It was a differ- Chuck: That was through my relationship the French than from me, which was my error. ent world. I was thinking about how to de- with Tom. But before that, he produced a rec- I think back about my own attitudes at that scribe what I think is the situation at the mo- ord of Donald Byrd, which was in fact Horace time, and I was young and I wasn’t thinking ment. There is a preponderance of cheap pop- Silver and Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers with very clearly about what Bud was doing. A lot ular music with improvisation that’s masquer- whom Donald Byrd was playing. Tom hired of the time, he was on automatic pilot, and ading as creative jazz. And it takes up most of them to make a record that Donald would be you could tell that there wasn’t much emo- the listening space in the world. And if I had the leader, and they recorded it in the radio tional connection with his playing. That was heard that music when I was learning to play, station at Harvard in that studio. And I was the state of mental life that he was in at that I would never have become a jazz musician. there and I met Horace. I can’t say I ever point, and it made me, in my youthful way, knew him well, but I would always run into incorrectly disrespect his accomplishments. JI: Well, a lot of it’s produced, so of course it him through the years and we were always And I look back on that thinking, well, you doesn’t grab your heart. friendly and cordial, and he was a nice man, know, I was glad to be working with Bud and and I loved his music so I would go and hear for people paying attention to me, but I really Chuck: Well, you’re old enough to have had it at every opportunity. I have this band that wasn’t paying that much attention to how a little bit of that experience, and I’m a few plays mostly music that is more like Bill Ev- great a musician he was, and the French were. years older and so I had that much more of it ans’ music than Horace’s. But the roots of However, they had him playing in a dive on before the baby boom generation reached ado- Bill’s music are the same roots that are (Continued on page 11)
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10 ExperienceFebruary Results-March 2019 Jazz In Inside 24-48 Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.comHours! CALL 215-887-To8880 Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 part invention, and it became something position and thinks it looks a certain way, and Chuck Israels called “Double Clutching.” But there wasn’t a that’s why they have those big mirrors, to lot of planning for that session. We played a make sure that it looks the way they want it (Continued from page 8) couple of standards and four people played to. And you have to train yourself to observe one way and then Cecil played the way Cecil yourself from a distance. It’s part of your the left bank, with a lousy upright piano that plays-which is rhythmically very choppy and training as an artist to recognize how things was not always in tune-and I always thought kind of unrelated to the language that the rest are really coming out. that was a little bit hypocritical to turn him of us were speaking. And we did the best we into this hero and not give him a suitable could to find a way to relate to that and to JI: Sure, and it takes training to get to that place to play and a good instrument. I was a integrate it. It was our job. And for me, first of point. As our ears become more sensitive and child. How old was I then? Let’s see, 23. I all, it was the first session I had ever taken attuned to the subtleties, we pick up things we was lucky to be there and I got a lot of work. I part in, first professional one, so I had nothing may not have initially heard. I listen back now worked with Bud and with Lucky Thompson, to compare it to. to recordings that I was listening to when I with Kenny Clarke, with Daniel Humair, who first became involved in the music-even solos was a brilliant, brilliant drummer. I had a JI: I guess you felt like a kid in a candy facto- I may have transcribed—and I find myself good time. ry. Everything that was happening was excit- hearing, discovering subtleties that I never ing and new. could have imagined when I first started out. JI: What prompted you to move back to the United States? Chuck: Of course. I also heard myself rush Chuck: Yep. Well, I found some things in on a playback, and decided instantly that I Horace’s music, but not too much that I didn’t Chuck: I never had planned to remain in Eu- was never going to do that again. One of my know was there. I was pretty aware of how he rope. I don’t think that I was looking for an solos-I wasn’t at all aware that it was happen- organized things. First place, his music is very expatriate existence. I think that’s a difficult ing when I was playing. And I heard the play- organized. His quintet arrangements are kind life to live away from your home country. back and said, my God, I’m rushing, that’s of little big band arrangements already. They People find it necessary. Some years before terrible. I have to re-orient my experience of have shout choruses, they have specific fig- that, for political reasons, people had been my own playing to make sure that I keep a ures in the piano part that he would play the “outed” by Joseph McCarthy and had moved part of me outside of myself listening to what same every night, much to the consternation to Europe because they were blacklisted at I’m doing to make sure that the music comes of a trumpet player that worked for him later, home. But I wasn’t planning to stay in Eu- out right, comes out the way I want it to. whom I knew well who played in the National rope. I did come home to Boston after that, Jazz Ensemble. He came back, and we said, finding not very much jazz at that moment. I JI: Did you go back in the practice room for a “Well how was it working with Horace?” He went to work for Acoustic Research and did long time with a metronome to make sure that said, “Oh man, it’s such a drag. He comps the experimental work on loud speakers for a you didn’t rush? same way every night.” But we talked to this while until George Russell and I found each guy and said, “You know, you have to play a other in Lenox, Massachusetts. Chuck: No, I just became aware that my different kind of solo. In Horace’s music, that emotional state was misdirecting what I was comping is written into the arrangement and it JI: What year was that, 1960? hearing, and I just fixed it. I just thought that carries part of the story of the piece.” when I feel like that, and I think I’m dragging, Chuck: Yes, yes, that was the beginning of I’m not—so don’t pay attention to that. I fixed JI: Sure, the music would be entirely different my New York career. it right away. I didn’t have any time to go if Barry Harris or Bill Evans were comping back in the practice room and fix it. I had to for the same tunes with the same group. JI: What was that session like on which you fix it on the next take. recorded with John Coltrane and Cecil Tay- Chuck: Right, and Horace’s comping was lor? What are your impressions? JI: Well it’s good that you got to hear it back part of the arrangement. So in my writing for so you could make those instant changes. this album, there’s quite a bit of orchestration Chuck: It was professional, and there are of Horace’s piano parts. So a lot of the things stories about it that there were fights and ar- Chuck: Exactly. Recording is a wonderful that are beautiful and colorful and swinging guments and all kinds of things because peo- thing for musicians. on this album actually originate from Horace. ple hear the discrepancy in musical style from There’s a lot of Horace in here and a little bit what Cecil was doing and what everyone else JI: Probably like everyone who has recorded, of me. I don’t mean to minimize my contribu- was doing. But I don’t remember any sign of at one time or another you’ve cringed at hear- tion or the contribution of the other guys in anything but professional courtesy. It was ing the playback and thought that the music the band. But there’s such a strong foundation people doing their jobs. was not where you wanted it to be. We all go in that music that it doesn’t take a lot. It takes through that at one time or another. I’ve had performing it well, which took us some time. JI: Was there music handed out? What do experiences where I initially thought that and It took some time for these younger players to you remember about the development of the then let it sit for a month or two months, until figure out how the eighth notes had to go, and music during the session? you’ve forgotten the “mistakes” that you think I was exigent with them about that because if you made on the spot. Then later, with clarity, you play Horace with swingy eighth notes in Chuck: Well, we played a couple of blueses. you realize, “Oh my gosh, that sounds really the wrong place, it destroys the line of the One little counterpoint exercise that I had good.” music. So we had to work a lot on that. But written, that I had no idea anyone was going we did solve the problem, and the soloists to play, was sitting on a music stand. John Chuck: Of course, yeah. But at the moment, were really wonderful about playing solos that picked it up and looked at it and said, “Oh, it’s like the dancer looking in the mirror. The fit the piece. So I’m really pleased about how let’s try this.” He and Kenny played this two dancer feels his or her body in a particular (Continued on page 12)
To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 11 pieces. I have a substantial repertoire of my confirmation of aesthetic direction that I was Chuck Israels own pieces, and there’s quite a bit of variety pointing in, but I didn’t know how to achieve in them. And the band members liked playing myself. And so I felt very lucky that I was (Continued from page 11) them and they identified with them, so that’s able to participate in that music, in the music going to be the next project. that Bill was making-because it was the kind the players put themselves inside each piece of music I wanted to make and I couldn’t do it that we played. And most of them sound like JI: For several years in the 1960s, from ‘61 to by myself. And I stayed there, and probably Horace Silver. There are some that have a ‘66, you played with Bill Evans. Perhaps you would have stayed there a lot longer if Bill’s little bit of different approach to them. I think could talk a little bit about how you made his emotional and chemical health had been bet- “Strolling” gets a treatment that Horace prob- acquaintance and how your tenure in his trio ter. But after almost six years, I felt as if I had ably wouldn’t have given it, and maybe began. to break away from that and do the home- “Peace.” But the rest of them-I think Horace work, do the necessary work to make music would recognize them right away and feel Chuck: Well, I met him—I’m not sure if it like that, to come as close to that level of mu- comfortable and I would hope honored by the was the first time, but when Gunther Schuller sic making as I could under my own direction. respect that we have for what was already had the first third-stream concert, which took So I had to learn to become a composer and there and didn’t feel that it was necessary to place at Brandeis in June of 1957, Bill was the arranger which was not what I started out to change it all that much. I tried to get a variety, piano player. As a matter of fact, my contact do. I started out to be a bass player and I’ve and I think I avoided the ones that have osti- with musicians at Brandeis, when I was a stu- changed my point of view considerably. I play nato bass parts [“Song For My Father,” for dent there, became my entre into the New bass now because it helps the guys in my band example] because I don’t have much fun play- York scene three or four years later. I met understand the direction of the music. ing them. So even though some of those are Bill, I met George Russell, I met Joe Benja- the most popular ones, they were not that in- min who was the bass player on that job and JI: With your entre into Bill Evans Trio, were teresting to me. I picked the ones I knew and who later used to send me on gigs subbing for there initially discussions or kind of sugges- that I liked. A couple of them, my daughter him. I met Jimmy Knepper, I met Art Farmer, tions that he made verbally that helped you suggested because she knows John Hendrick’s Barry Galbraith, a whole bunch of people, Jim along? What was the whole beginning like in versions of them, knows the words, and Buffington, French horn player. Charlie Min- getting acclimated and connected together? thought that they were particularly attractive gus was there and we became friendly. pieces. “Home Cooking” was one of them. Brandeis has a campus that doesn’t have any Chuck: Nonverbal. Sometimes it’s hard for businesses next to it. It’s in a residential area. people to understand that, but the communica- JI: All of his songs seem to have a certain So those guys were there for a week or two tion took place in the music. He played the lyricism about them that the average person rehearsing. And when they had breaks, there way he wanted to play. He wrote out little can relate to. was no place for them to go to eat except the chord sheets showing you the harmony with student union. So I made sure that Steve Kuhn an occasional rhythm, and left you alone. Chuck: They’re very straightforward, acces- and Arnie Wise and I, who had a trio together, sible, simple in the best since for the word. were playing in the student union when those JI: And your interest in composition evolved They’re distilled Bud Powell. And Horace guys had their break. And they all came in during the time of the trio I take it? uses the bebop language and kind of avoids its and they sat down and they didn’t eat. They excesses. were kind of dumbfounded because there was Chuck: Yes, I wanted to be able to do that, no jazz in universities, and here was a really and I didn’t know how Bill was doing it. In a JI: Yes, the old saying that less is more has professional jazz trio. And that was the begin- lot of ways, I didn’t realize how simple and really been epitomized by his approach to ning of getting to know these people. I got to straightforward some of it was. On the other composition certainly I think. play with Bill through his knowing of me, and hand, there were other elements of it that were liking my playing, having heard me then. And highly sophisticated elements that people usu- Chuck: Absolutely. What did I do as an ar- when Scott [LaFaro, Bill Evans’ bassist ally don’t notice. People tend to notice the ranger? Well, on “Moonrays,” which is this through June 1961] died, I was in Europe. It’s beautiful harmony and the great pianistic long kind of a mood piece, I added a lot to a complicated story but there were a lot of touch, and they miss the complexity and so- that arrangement. I added polyphony and mutual friends involved. And I knew that phistication of the rhythm and timing. Bill’s some contrapuntal lines to that because I Scotty had died. I didn’t get back to New rhythm was completely authoritative. You thought there was a lot of room for it with the York until October. And there was a phone could make mistakes and it would never long lines in the melody. And it develops in a call waiting for me. Bill had decided that he throw him. I didn’t make many but if I did, if particular way because there’s that room in was going to call me and he was going to wait I played something that was good for the mu- that piece. But some of the pieces, you didn’t until I got back, and I went to work for him sic, it would affect the music. You could hear really have to do a whole lot to. Nevertheless, then. That was kind of the materialization and Bill’s response to that instantly. If I made an it did take me months to get all the musical realization of aesthetic ideas that were already error, he was so strong that it didn’t throw ready for this. I don’t do it quickly. It takes a built into my musical background, kind of him. He would not respond to errors. lot of thought and a lot of balancing of ele- JI: That’s amazing. ments.
“Ultimate success is not Chuck: There weren’t a whole lot of them, JI: Are you planning to do a follow-up to that directly related to early success, but when it did happen it never threw them. one or is this the one and only? if you consider that many successful JI: What were some of the recordings like? people did not give clear evidence Do you remember any interesting or dramatic Chuck: I don’t think we’ll do another Horace of such promise in youth.” or humorous moments that you’d like to Silver one. We were going to do a Monk one, share? but the guys in the band are interested in my - Robert Fritz, The Path Of Least Resistance (Continued on page 34)
12 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880
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Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Saturday, February 9 Phil Stewart Quartet; Chris Byars Original Sextet; Jonathan Freddy Cole Quintet: Songs For Lovers; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Thomas Trio “After-hours”; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Catherine Russell and Her Septet: Alone Together; Birdland, 315 The Clayton Brothers Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. W. 44th St. George Cables Trio - George Cables, Piano; Dezron Douglas, Thundercat; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Bass; Victor Lewis, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Smalls Showcase: Dave Meder Trio; Adam Birnbaum Quartet; Darrell Green Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th Friday, February 15 St.; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Kim Nalley: Love Songs; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, John Pizzarelli Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. 60th & Bdwy Ron Carter’s Blue Note Winter Residency; Gideon King & City Dianne Reeves, 2018 NEA Jazz Master, Valentine’s Day week- Blog; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. end, 8PM, Rose Theatre, Jazz at Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdway Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years At Jazz Standard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Sunday, February 10 Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Freddy Cole Quintet: Songs For Lovers; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Michael Weiss Quartet; Alexander Claffy Quintet; JD Allen “After- Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy hours”; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Jazz For Kids; The Clayton Brothers Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 Catherine Russell and Her Septet: Alone Together; Birdland, 315 E. 27th St. W. 44th St. George Cables Trio - George Cables, Piano; Dezron Douglas, Thundercat; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Bass; Victor Lewis, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Scott Reeves Jazz Orchestra; The Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Saturday, February 16 Ron Carter’s Blue Note Winter Residency; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd Kim Nalley: Love Songs; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Dianne Reeves, 2018 NEA Jazz Master, Valentine’s Day week- Monday, February 11 end, 8PM, Rose Theatre, Jazz at Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdway Brussels Jazz Orchestra & Tutu Puoane: We Have A Dream; Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years At Jazz Standard; Jazz Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years At Jazz Standard; Jazz Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Smalls Showcase: Dean Tsur Saxophone Choir; Michael Weiss Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Quartet; Alexander Claffy Quintet; Brooklyn Circle; Small’s, 183 Ronnie Burrage & Holographic Principle; Jonathan Barber Quar- W. 10th St. tet; Jon Elbaz Trio “After-hours”; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Catherine Russell and Her Septet: Alone Together; Birdland, 315 Lorna Dallas; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. W. 44th St. Wallace Roney Quintet - February Residency; Blue Note, 131 W. Thundercat; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. 3rd St. Sunday, February 17 Tuesday, February 12 Kim Nalley: Love Songs; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, Brussels Jazz Orchestra & Tutu Puoane: We Have A Dream; 60th & Bdwy Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Jazz For Kids; Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years At Jazz Michael Leonhart Orchestra “Valentine’s Day Show: Movie Love Standard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Themes”; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Emanuele Tozzi Quintet; Catherine Russell and Her Septet, 315 W. 44th St. Bill Goodwin Trio; Joe Magnarelli Group; Ben Zweig Trio “After- Thundercat; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. hours”; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Birdland Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Thundercat; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Wednesday, February 13 Brian Charette: Music For Organ Sextette; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Monday, February 18 Double Date With Tierney & Kate: From Django To Joni; Jazz Juilliard Jazz Ensembles; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, Standard, 116 E. 27th St. 60th & Bdwy Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Mingus Orchestra: Celebrating 10 Years At Jazz Standard; Jazz John Stetch & Vulneraville; Dave Pietro Quintet; Davis Whitfield Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Trio “After-hours”; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Catherine Russell; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Ari Hoenig Trio; Joel Frahm Trio; Sean Mason Trio “After-hours”; Thundercat; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Judi Silvano and The Zephyr Band; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Wallace Roney Quintet ; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Thursday, February 14 Valentine’s Day: Kim Nalley Sings Love Songs; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Tuesday, February 19 Tierney & Kate: From Django To Joni; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th John Chin; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy (Continued on page 14)
To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 13 Godwin Louis; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Saxophone Summit with Joe Lovano, Dave Liebman, and Greg Spanish Harlem Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Steve Nelson Quartet; Frank Lacy’s Tromboniverse; Malik Osby; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Dayna Stephens Quartet - Dayna Stephens, Saxophone; Aaron McLaurine Trio “After-hours”; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. David Sanborn; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Parks, Piano; Ben Street, Bass; Greg Hutchinson, Drums; Village Saxophone Summit with Joe Lovano, Dave Liebman, and Greg Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Osby; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Saxophone Summit with Joe Lovano, Dave Liebman, and Greg David Sanborn; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Thursday, February 21 Osby; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. David Binney; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy David Sanborn; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Spanish Harlem Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Wednesday, February 20 Dayna Stephens Quartet - Dayna Stephens, Saxophone; Aaron Bobby Broom Organi-Sation: Soul Fingers; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Parks, Piano; Ben Street, Bass; Greg Hutchinson, Drums; Village Saturday, February 23 Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Warren Wolf Quartet Featuring Joe Locke; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At An Evening With Branford Marsalis; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th David Sanborn; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Dayna Stephens Quartet - Dayna Stephens, Saxophone; Aaron Spanish Harlem Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Parks, Piano; Ben Street, Bass; Greg Hutchinson, Drums; Village Saxophone Summit with Joe Lovano, Dave Liebman, and Greg Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Friday, February 22 Osby; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Rob Bargad’s Reunion 7tet; Harold Mabern Trio; Micah Thomas Warren Wolf Quartet Featuring Joe Locke; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At David Sanborn; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Trio “After-hours”; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Sunday, February 24 Warren Wolf Quartet Featuring Joe Locke; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Jazz For Kids; Spanish Harlem Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Dayna Stephens Quartet - Dayna Stephens, Saxophone; Aaron Parks, Piano; Ben Street, Bass; Greg Hutchinson, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Emilio Solla Tango Jazz Orchestra; The Ktet; The Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. David Sanborn; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Monday, February 25 Matthew Shipp Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years At Jazz Standard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Lucas Pino Nonet; Rodney Green Group; Jon Elbaz Trio “After- hours”; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Victoria Shaw; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Wallace Roney Quintet - February Residency; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Tuesday, February 26 Allison Miller; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Steve Slagle’s A.M. Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Terell Stafford Quintet - Terell Stafford, Trumpet; Tim Warfield, Saxophone; Bruce Barth, Piano; Peter Washington, Bass; Billy Williams, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Eric Harland’s Voyager; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Wednesday, February 27 Black Art Jazz Collective; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Joey Defrancesco Trio With Troy Roberts And Billy Hart; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Terell Stafford Quintet; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Michael Stephans: Quartette Oblique; Amos Hoffman Trio; Davis Whitfield Trio “After-hours”; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Cyrille Aimee: A Sondheim Adventure; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Eric Harland’s Voyager; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Thursday, February 28 Black Art Jazz Collective; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Alfredo Rodriguez/Pedrito Martinez; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th Terell Stafford Quintet - Terell Stafford, Trumpet; Tim Warfield, Saxophone; Bruce Barth, Piano; Peter Washington, Bass; Billy Williams, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Cyrille Aimee: A Sondheim Adventure; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Cory Henry Birthday, The Revival; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Friday, March 1 Azar Lawrence Experience; Late Night Session: Jeffery Miller; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Alfredo Rodriguez/Pedrito Martinez Duo; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th Terell Stafford Quintet; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Cyrille Aimee: A Sondheim Adventure; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Cory Henry Birthday Residency: The Revival; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd
(Continued on page 16)
14 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880
GregGreg OsbyOsby Birdland,Birdland, FebruayFebruay 1919--2323
© Eric Nemeyer
To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 15 Kurt Elling’s “The Big Blind”, A Jazz Radio Drama - World premiere of Saturday, March 2 vocalist Kurt Elling’s dramatic musical production, featuring vocalist Alfredo Rodriguez/Pedrito Martinez Duo; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th Dee Dee Bridgewater, actor Clarke Peters, and a swinging band with Terell Stafford Quintet; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. strings; 8PM, Rose Theatre, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Cyrille Aimee: A Sondheim Adventure; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Michael Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Cory Henry Birthday Residency: The Revival; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd Miguel Zenón, Alto Sax; Luis Perdomo, Piano; Hans Glawischnig, Bass; Henry Cole, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Eddie Palmieri; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Sunday, March 3 Alfredo Rodriguez/Pedrito Martinez Duo; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th Terell Stafford Quintet; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Wednesday, March 13 Papo Vazquez Mighty Pirates Troubadours; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Lakecia Benjamin: Jazz Takes Flight; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Cory Henry Birthday Residency: The Revival; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd Center, 60th & Bdwy Chris Bergson Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Miguel Zenón, Alto Sax; Luis Perdomo, Piano; Hans Glawischnig, Monday, March 4 Bass; Henry Cole, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Monday Nights With WBGO: Gwilym Simcock; Takeshi Ohbayashi Beegie Adair and Monica Ramey; Pete Malinverni Trio: On The Town Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy The Music of Leonard Bernstein; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Eddie Palmieri; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Stars; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd Thursday, March 14 Joan Belgrave Quintet; Dizzy’s, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Tuesday, March 5 René Marie; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. A Gotham Kings Mardi Gras Celebration; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Miguel Zenón; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Center, 60th & Bdwy Ehud Asherie; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Ravi Coltrane; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Charles Tolliver 50th Anniversary Paper Man: Bartz/Iyer/White/ Ambrose Akinmusire; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Williams; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Nellie Mckay; Karrin Allyson; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Spyro Gyra; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Friday, March 15 Johnny O’Neal Quartet Celebrates The 100th Birthday Of Nat “King” Wednesday, March 6 Cole; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Chuck Israels Nextet Featuring Aaron Diehl; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At René Marie; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Miguel Zenón, Alto Sax; Luis Perdomo, Piano; Hans Glawischnig, Ravi Coltrane; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Bass; Henry Cole, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Ambrose Akinmusire; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Birdland Big Band; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Nellie Mckay; Karrin Allyson; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Charles Tolliver 50th Anniversary Paper Man: Bartz/Iyer/White/ Spyro Gyra; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Williams; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Thursday, March 7 Saturday, March 16 Renee Rosnes Quartet; Dizzy’s, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy Late Night Dance Session: Zaccai Curtis CUBOP; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz Ravi Coltrane; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Ambrose Akinmusire, Trumpet; Walter Smith, Tenor Sax; Sullivan Monterey Jazz Festival On Tour Featuring Cécile Mclorin Salvant And Fortner, Piano; Harish Raghavan, Bass; Justin Brown, Drums; Village Christian Sands - Featuring vocalist Cécile Mclorin Salvant, trumpeter- Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Bria Skonberg, saxophonist Melissa Aldana, drummer Jamison Ross, Nellie Mckay; Karrin Allyson; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. bassist Yasushi Nakamura, and pianist and music director Christian th Spyro Gyra; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Sands; 7PM, 9:30PM, Appel Room, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60 & Bdwy René Marie; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Miguel Zenón, Alto Sax; Luis Perdomo, Piano; Hans Glawischnig, Friday, March 8 Bass; Henry Cole, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Ravi Coltrane; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Eric Comstock; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Ambrose Akinmusire, Trumpet; Walter Smith, Tenor Sax; Sullivan Charles Tolliver 50th Anniversary Paper Man: Bartz/Iyer/White/ Fortner, Piano; Harish Raghavan, Bass; Justin Brown, Drums; Village Williams; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Nellie Mckay; Karrin Allyson; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Spyro Gyra; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Sunday, March 17 Jazz For Kids; René Marie; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Miguel Zenón, Alto Sax; Luis Perdomo, Piano; Hans Glawischnig, Saturday, March 9 Bass; Henry Cole, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Ravi Coltrane; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Bobby LaVell Jazz Orchestra; The Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, Ambrose Akinmusire, Trumpet; Walter Smith, Tenor Sax; Sullivan 315 W. 44th St. Fortner, Piano; Harish Raghavan, Bass; Justin Brown, Drums; Village Charles Tolliver 50th Anniversary Paper Man: Bartz/Iyer/White/ Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Williams; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Nellie Mckay; Karrin Allyson; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Spyro Gyra; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Monday, March 18 Jazz At Lincoln Center Youth Orchestra With Special Guest Marshall Sunday, March 10 Gilkes; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Jazz For Kids; Ravi Coltrane; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years At Jazz Standard; Jazz Ambrose Akinmusire; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Brian Newman & the New Alchemy Jazz Orchestra; The Afro Latin Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Will Calhoun's Zig Zag Power Trio; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Spyro Gyra; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Tuesday, March 19
Jazz Lovers’ Monday, March 11 United States Army Field Band Jazz Ambassadors; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz Brubeck Institute Jazz Quartet With Special Guest Lewis Nash; At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Carla Bley, Andy Sheppard, Steve Swallow; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27 Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. The Bad Plus; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Nate Smith + KINFOLK; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Will Reynolds; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Lifetime Collection Wednesday, March 20 Tuesday, March 12 Uptown Jazz Tentet; Dizzy’s, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy New York Youth Symphony Jazz With Ryan Keberle And Matt Holman Carla Bley - Trios With Andy Sheppard / Steve Swallow; Jazz Stand- Late Night Session: Davis Whitfield; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln ard, 116 E. 27th St. JazzMusicDeals.com JazzMusicDeals.com Center, 60th & Bdwy (Continued on page 17)
16 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 New York Voices; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Sunday, March 24 Bobby McFerrin & Gimme5 w Joey Blake, Dave Worm, Judi Vinar & Jazz For Kids; Jimmy Greene Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Rhiannon, Blue Note
The Bad Plus - Reid Anderson, Bass; Orrin Evans, Piano; Dave King, “Some people’s idea of Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Friday, March 29 Jane Scheckter "I've (still) Got My Standards" With Mike Renzi, Jay Avishai Cohen Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. free speech is that they are free Leonhart, and Vito Lesczak; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Broken Shadows - Tim Berne, Alto Sax; Chris Speed, Tenor Sax; Reid to say what they like, but if anyone Sadao Watanabe Quartet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Anderson, Bass; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
says anything back that New York Voices; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Monday, March 25 Bobby McFerrin & Gimme5, Blue Note
is an outrage.” Brandon Goldberg Trio; Mike Lee & Friends; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Saturday, March 30 Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years At Jazz Standard; Jazz Avishai Cohen Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Broken Shadows - Tim Berne, Alto Sax; Chris Speed, Tenor Sax; Reid - Winston Churchill Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Anderson, Bass; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; T. Oliver Reid Celebrates Bobby Short; New York Voices; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. The Bad Plus; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Bobby McFerrin & Gimme5 w Joey Blake, Dave Worm, Judi Vinar & Kristina Koller; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Rhiannon Nate Smith + KINFOLK; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Tuesday, March 26 Sunday, March 31 Judy Carmichael Quartet With Special Guest Harry Allen; Late Night Jazz For Kids; Avishai Cohen Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Thursday, March 21 Session: Alina Engibaryan; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th Broken Shadows - Tim Berne, Alto Sax; Chris Speed, Tenor Sax; Reid DIVA Jazz Orch; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy & Bdwy Anderson, Bass; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Jimmy Greene Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Lage Lund – 'Terrible Animals'; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Renee Manning/Earl McIntyre Septet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. The Bad Plus; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Broken Shadows - Tim Berne, Alto Sax; Chris Speed, Tenor Sax; Reid Bobby McFerrin & Gimme5 w Joey Blake, Dave Worm, Judi Vinar & Jay Leonhart; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Anderson, Bass; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Sadao Watanabe Quartet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Rhiannon New York Voices; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Ron Carter's Blue Note Winter Residency; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Friday, March 22
Jimmy Greene Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Wednesday, March 27 The Bad Plus - Reid Anderson, Bass; Orrin Evans, Piano; Dave King, Ralph Towner Solo; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. “...among human beings Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Broken Shadows - Tim Berne, Alto Sax; Chris Speed, Tenor Sax; Reid jealousy ranks distinctly as a Frank Vignola Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Anderson, Bass; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. weakness; a trademark of small minds; The Rippingtons; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. New York Voices; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Ron Carter's Blue Note Winter Residency; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. a property of all small minds, yet a property which even the smallest is ashamed of; Saturday, March 23 and when accused of its possession will Jimmy Greene Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Thursday, March 28 lyingly deny it and resent the The Bad Plus - Reid Anderson, Bass; Orrin Evans, Piano; Dave King, Duduka Da Fonseca, Helio Alves And Maucha Adnet; Dizzy’s Club, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy accusation as an insult.” Frank Vignola Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Ralph Towner Solo; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Sadao Watanabe Quartet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Broken Shadows - Tim Berne, Alto Sax; Chris Speed, Tenor Sax; Reid Anderson, Bass; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. -Mark Twain
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To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 17 Clubs,Clubs, VenuesVenues && JazzJazz ResourcesResources
5 C Cultural Center, 68 Avenue C. 212-477-5993. www.5ccc.com City Winery, 155 Varick St. Bet. Vandam & Spring St., 212-608- 212-539-8778, joespub.com 55 Bar, 55 Christopher St. 212-929-9883, 55bar.com 0555. citywinery.com John Birks Gillespie Auditorium (see Baha’i Center) 92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128, Cleopatra’s Needle, 2485 Broadway (betw 92nd & 93rd), 212-769- Jules Bistro, 65 St. Marks Pl, 212-477-5560, julesbistro.com 212.415.5500, 92ndsty.org 6969, cleopatrasneedleny.com Kasser Theater, 1 Normal Av, Montclair State College, Montclair, Aaron Davis Hall, City College of NY, Convent Ave., 212-650- Club Bonafide, 212 W. 52nd, 646-918-6189. clubbonafide.com 973-655-4000, montclair.edu 6900, aarondavishall.org C’mon Everybody, 325 Franklin Avenue, Brooklyn. Key Club, 58 Park Pl, Newark, NJ, 973-799-0306, keyclubnj.com Alice Tully Hall, Lincoln Center, Broadway & 65th St., 212-875- www.cmoneverybody.com Kitano Hotel, 66 Park Ave., 212-885-7119. kitano.com 5050, lincolncenter.org/default.asp Copeland’s, 547 W. 145th St. (at Bdwy), 212-234-2356 Knickerbocker Bar & Grill, 33 University Pl., 212-228-8490, Allen Room, Lincoln Center, Time Warner Center, Broadway and Cornelia St Café, 29 Cornelia, 212-989-9319 knickerbockerbarandgrill.com 60th, 5th floor, 212-258-9800, lincolncenter.org Count Basie Theatre, 99 Monmouth St., Red Bank, New Jersey Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St, 212-219-3132, knittingfacto- American Museum of Natural History, 81st St. & Central Park 07701, 732-842-9000, countbasietheatre.org ry.com W., 212-769-5100, amnh.org Crossroads at Garwood, 78 North Ave., Garwood, NJ 07027, Langham Place — Measure, Fifth Avenue, 400 Fifth Avenue Antibes Bistro, 112 Suffolk Street. 212-533-6088. 908-232-5666 New York, NY 10018, 212-613-8738, langhamplacehotels.com www.antibesbistro.com Cutting Room, 19 W. 24th St, 212-691-1900 La Lanterna (Bar Next Door at La Lanterna), 129 MacDougal St, Arthur’s Tavern, 57 Grove St., 212-675-6879 or 917-301-8759, Dizzy’s Club, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor, 212-258-9595, New York, 212-529-5945, lalanternarcaffe.com arthurstavernnyc.com jalc.com Le Cirque Cafe, 151 E. 58th St., lecirque.com Arts Maplewood, P.O. Box 383, Maplewood, NJ 07040; 973-378- DROM, 85 Avenue A, New York, 212-777-1157, dromnyc.com Le Fanfare, 1103 Manhattan Ave., Brooklyn. 347-987-4244. 2133, artsmaplewood.org The Ear Inn, 326 Spring St., NY, 212-226-9060, earinn.com www.lefanfare.com Avery Fischer Hall, Lincoln Center, Columbus Ave. & 65th St., East Village Social, 126 St. Marks Place. 646-755-8662. Le Madeleine, 403 W. 43rd St. (betw 9th & 10th Ave.), New York, 212-875-5030, lincolncenter.org www.evsnyc.com New York, 212-246-2993, lemadeleine.com BAM Café, 30 Lafayette Av, Brooklyn, 718-636-4100, bam.org Edward Hopper House, 82 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 854-358- Les Gallery Clemente Soto Velez, 107 Suffolk St, 212-260-4080 Bar Chord, 1008 Cortelyou Rd., Brooklyn, barchordnyc.com 0774. Lexington Hotel, 511 Lexington Ave. (212) 755-4400. Bar Lunatico, 486 Halsey St., Brooklyn. 718-513-0339. El Museo Del Barrio, 1230 Fifth Ave (at 104th St.), Tel: 212-831- www.lexinghotelnyc.com 222.barlunatico.com 7272, Fax: 212-831-7927, elmuseo.org Live @ The Falcon, 1348 Route 9W, Marlboro, NY 12542, Barbes, 376 9th St. (corner of 6th Ave.), Park Slope, Brooklyn, Esperanto, 145 Avenue C. 212-505-6559. www.esperantony.com Living Room, 154 Ludlow St. 212-533-7235, livingroomny.com 718-965-9177, barbesbrooklyn.com The Falcon, 1348 Rt. 9W, Marlboro, NY., 845) 236-7970, The Local 269, 269 E. Houston St. (corner of Suffolk St.), NYC Barge Music, Fulton Ferry Landing, Brooklyn, 718-624-2083, Fat Cat, 75 Christopher St., 212-675-7369, fatcatjazz.com Makor, 35 W. 67th St., 212-601-1000, makor.org bargemusic.org Fine and Rare, 9 East 37th Street. www.fineandrare.nyc Lounge Zen, 254 DeGraw Ave, Teaneck, NJ, (201) 692-8585, B.B. King’s Blues Bar, 237 W. 42nd St., 212-997-4144, Five Spot, 459 Myrtle Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 718-852-0202, fivespot- lounge-zen.com bbkingblues.com soulfood.com Maureen’s Jazz Cellar, 2 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 845-535- Beacon Theatre, 74th St. & Broadway, 212-496-7070 Flushing Town Hall, 137-35 Northern Blvd., Flushing, NY, 718- 3143. maureensjazzcellar.com Beco Bar, 45 Richardson, Brooklyn. 718-599-1645. 463-7700 x222, flushingtownhall.org Maxwell’s, 1039 Washington St, Hoboken, NJ, 201-653-1703 www.becobar.com For My Sweet, 1103 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY 718-857-1427 McCarter Theater, 91 University Pl., Princeton, 609-258-2787, Bickford Theatre, on Columbia Turnpike @ Normandy Heights Galapagos, 70 N. 6th St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-782-5188, galapago- mccarter.org Road, east of downtown Morristown. 973-744-2600 sartspace.com Merkin Concert Hall, Kaufman Center, 129 W. 67th St., 212-501 Birdland, 315 W. 44th, 212-581-3080 Garage Restaurant and Café, 99 Seventh Ave. (betw 4th and -3330, ekcc.org/merkin.htm Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd, 212-475-8592, bluenotejazz.com Bleecker), 212-645-0600, garagerest.com Metropolitan Room, 34 West 22nd St NY, NY 10012, 212-206- Bourbon St Bar and Grille, 346 W. 46th St, NY, 10036, Garden Café, 4961 Broadway, by 207th St., New York, 10034, 0440 212-245-2030, [email protected] 212-544-9480 Mezzrow, 163 West 10th Street, Basement, New York, NY Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery (at Bleecker), 212-614-0505, Gin Fizz, 308 Lenox Ave, 2nd floor. (212) 289-2220. 10014. 646-476-4346. www.mezzrow.com bowerypoetry.com www.ginfizzharlem.com Minton’s, 206 W 118th St., 212-243-2222, mintonsharlem.com BRIC House, 647 Fulton St. Brooklyn, NY 11217, 718-683-5600, Ginny’s Supper Club, 310 Malcolm X Boulevard Manhattan, NY Mirelle’s, 170 Post Ave., Westbury, NY, 516-338-4933 http://bricartsmedia.org 10027, 212-792-9001, http://redroosterharlem.com/ginnys/ MIST Harlem, 46 W. 116th St., myimagestudios.com Brooklyn Public Library, Grand Army Plaza, 2nd Fl, Brooklyn, Glen Rock Inn, 222 Rock Road, Glen Rock, NJ, (201) 445-2362, Mixed Notes Café, 333 Elmont Rd., Elmont, NY (Queens area), NY, 718-230-2100, brooklynpubliclibrary.org glenrockinn.com 516-328-2233, mixednotescafe.com Café Carlyle, 35 E. 76th St., 212-570-7189, thecarlyle.com GoodRoom, 98 Meserole, Bklyn, 718-349-2373, goodroombk.com. Montauk Club, 25 8th Ave., Brooklyn, 718-638-0800, Café Loup, 105 W. 13th St. (West Village) , between Sixth and Green Growler, 368 S, Riverside Ave., Croton-on-Hudson NY. montaukclub.com Seventh Aves., 212-255-4746 914-862-0961. www.thegreengrowler.com Moscow 57, 168½ Delancey. 212-260-5775. moscow57.com Café St. Bart’s, 109 E. 50th St, 212-888-2664, cafestbarts.com Greenwich Village Bistro, 13 Carmine St., 212-206-9777, green- Muchmore’s, 2 Havemeyer St., Brooklyn. 718-576-3222. nd Cafe Noctambulo, 178 2 Ave. 212-995-0900. cafenoctam- wichvillagebistro.com www.muchmoresnyc.com bulo.com Harlem on 5th, 2150 5th Avenue. 212-234-5600. Mundo, 37-06 36th St., Queens. mundony.com Caffe Vivaldi, 32 Jones St, NYC; caffevivaldi.com www.harlemonfifth.com Museum of the City of New York, 1220 Fifth Ave. (between Candlelight Lounge, 24 Passaic St, Trenton. 609-695-9612. Harlem Tea Room, 1793A Madison Ave., 212-348-3471, har- 103rd & 104th St.), 212-534-1672, mcny.org Carnegie Hall, 7th Av & 57th, 212-247-7800, carnegiehall.org lemtearoom.com Musicians’ Local 802, 332 W. 48th, 718-468-7376 Cassandra’s Jazz, 2256 7th Avenue. 917-435-2250. cassan- Hat City Kitchen, 459 Valley St, Orange. 862-252-9147. National Sawdust, 80 N. 6th St., Brooklyn. 646-779-8455. drasjazz.com hatcitykitchen.com www.nationalsawdust.org Chico’s House Of Jazz, In Shoppes at the Arcade, 631 Lake Ave., Havana Central West End, 2911 Broadway/114th St), NYC, Newark Museum, 49 Washington St, Newark, New Jersey 07102- Asbury Park, 732-774-5299 212-662-8830, havanacentral.com 3176, 973-596-6550, newarkmuseum.org Highline Ballroom, 431 West 16th St (between 9th & 10th Ave. New Jersey Performing Arts Center, 1 Center St., Newark, NJ, highlineballroom.com, 212-414-4314. 07102, 973-642-8989, njpac.org Hopewell Valley Bistro, 15 East Broad St, Hopewell, NJ 08525, New Leaf Restaurant, 1 Margaret Corbin Dr., Ft. Tryon Park. 212- 609-466-9889, hopewellvalleybistro.com 568-5323. newleafrestaurant.com Hudson Room, 27 S. Division St., Peekskill NY. 914-788-FOOD. New School Performance Space, 55 W. 13th St., 5th Floor (betw hudsonroom.com 5th & 6th Ave.), 212-229-5896, newschool.edu. Hyatt New Brunswick, 2 Albany St., New Brunswick, NJ New School University-Tishman Auditorium, 66 W. 12th St., 1st “A system of morality IBeam Music Studio, 168 7th St., Brooklyn, ibeambrooklyn.com Floor, Room 106, 212-229-5488, newschool.edu INC American Bar & Kitchen, 302 George St., New Brunswick New York City Baha’i Center, 53 E. 11th St. (betw Broadway & which is based on relative NJ. (732) 640-0553. www.increstaurant.com University), 212-222-5159, bahainyc.org emotional values is a mere Iridium, 1650 Broadway, 212-582-2121, iridiumjazzclub.com North Square Lounge, 103 Waverly Pl. (at MacDougal St.), Jazz 966, 966 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-638-6910 212-254-1200, northsquarejazz.com illusion, a thoroughly vulgar Jazz at Lincoln Center, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org Oak Room at The Algonquin Hotel, 59 W. 44th St. (betw 5th and conception which has nothing Frederick P. Rose Hall, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor 6th Ave.), 212-840-6800, thealgonquin.net Dizzy’s Club Coca-Cola, Reservations: 212-258-9595 Oceana Restaurant, 120 West 49th St, New York, NY 10020 sound in it and nothing true.” Rose Theater, Tickets: 212-721-6500, The Allen Room, Tickets: 212-759-5941, oceanarestaurant.com 212-721-6500 Orchid, 765 Sixth Ave. (betw 25th & 26th St.), 212-206-9928 Jazz Gallery, 1160 Bdwy, (212) 242-1063, jazzgallery.org The Owl, 497 Rogers Ave, Bklyn. 718-774-0042. www.theowl.nyc The Jazz Spot, 375 Kosciuszko St. (enter at 179 Marcus Garvey Palazzo Restaurant, 11 South Fullerton Avenue, Montclair. 973- Blvd.), Brooklyn, NY, 718-453-7825, thejazz.8m.com 746-6778. palazzonj.com Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St., 212-576-2232, jazzstandard.net Priory Jazz Club: 223 W Market, Newark, 07103, 973-639-7885 — Socrates — Anton Chekhov Joe’s Pub at the Public Theater, 425 Lafayette St & Astor Pl., Proper Café, 217-01 Linden Blvd., Queens, 718-341-2233
18 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 Prospect Park Bandshell, 9th St. & Prospect Park W., Brooklyn, Zankel Hall, 881 7th Ave, New York, 212-247-7800 NY, 718-768-0855 Zinc Bar, 82 West 3rd St.
Prospect Wine Bar & Bistro, 16 Prospect St. Westfield, NJ, RECORD STORES 908-232-7320, 16prospect.com, cjayrecords.com Academy Records, 12 W. 18th St., New York, NY 10011, 212-242 “It is curious that physical courage Red Eye Grill, 890 7th Av (56th), 212-541-9000, redeyegrill.com -3000, http://academy-records.com should be so common in the world Ridgefield Playhouse, 80 East Ridge, parallel to Main St., Downtown Music Gallery, 13 Monroe St, New York, NY 10002, and moral courage so rare.” Ridgefield, CT; ridgefieldplayhouse.org, 203-438-5795 (212) 473-0043, downtownmusicgallery.com Rockwood Music Hall, 196 Allen St, 212-477-4155 Jazz Record Center, 236 W. 26th St., Room 804, Rose Center (American Museum of Natural History), 81st St. 212-675-4480, jazzrecordcenter.com (Central Park W. & Columbus), 212-769-5100, amnh.org/rose MUSIC STORES — Mark Twain Rose Hall, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org Roberto’s Woodwind & Brass, 149 West 46th St. NY, NY 10036, Rosendale Café, 434 Main St., PO Box 436, Rosendale, NY 12472, 646-366-0240, robertoswoodwind.com Queens College — Copland School of Music, City University of 845-658-9048, rosendalecafe.com Sam Ash, 333 W 34th St, New York, NY 10001 NY, Flushing, 718-997-3800 Rubin Museum of Art - “Harlem in the Himalayas”, 150 W. 17th Phone: (212) 719-2299 samash.com Rutgers Univ. at New Brunswick, Jazz Studies, Douglass Cam- St. 212-620-5000. rmanyc.org Sadowsky Guitars Ltd, 2107 41st Avenue 4th Floor, Long Island pus, PO Box 270, New Brunswick, NJ, 908-932-9302 Rustik, 471 DeKalb Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 347-406-9700, City, NY 11101, 718-433-1990. sadowsky.com Rutgers University Institute of Jazz Studies, 185 University Avenue, Newark NJ 07102, 973-353-5595 rustikrestaurant.com Steve Maxwell Vintage Drums, 723 7th Ave, 3rd Floor, New newarkrutgers.edu/IJS/index1.html St. Mark’s Church, 131 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.), 212-674-6377 York, NY 10019, 212-730-8138, maxwelldrums.com SUNY Purchase, 735 Anderson Hill, Purchase, 914-251-6300 St. Nick’s Pub, 773 St. Nicholas Av (at 149th), 212-283-9728 SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, CONSERVATORIES Swing University (see Jazz At Lincoln Center, under Venues) St. Peter’s Church, 619 Lexington (at 54th), 212-935-2200, 92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128 William Paterson University Jazz Studies Program, 300 Pompton saintpeters.org 212.415.5500; 92ndsty.org Rd, Wayne, NJ, 973-720-2320 Sasa’s Lounge, 924 Columbus Ave, Between 105th & 106th St. Brooklyn-Queens Conservatory of Music, 42-76 Main St., RADIO NY, NY 10025, 212-865-5159, sasasloungenyc.yolasite.com Flushing, NY, Tel: 718-461-8910, Fax: 718-886-2450 WBGO 88.3 FM, 54 Park Pl, Newark, NJ 07102, Tel: 973-624- Brooklyn Conservatory of Music, 58 Seventh Ave., Brooklyn, Savoy Grill, 60 Park Place, Newark, NJ 07102, 973-286-1700 8880, Fax: 973-824-8888, wbgo.org NY, 718-622-3300, brooklynconservatory.com WCWP, LIU/C.W. Post Campus Schomburg Center, 515 Malcolm X Blvd., 212-491-2200, City College of NY-Jazz Program, 212-650-5411, nypl.org/research/sc/sc.html WFDU, http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/index2.html Drummers Collective, 541 6th Ave, New York, NY 10011, WKCR 89.9, Columbia University, 2920 Broadway Shanghai Jazz, 24 Main St., Madison, NJ, 973-822-2899, shang- 212-741-0091, thecoll.com Mailcode 2612, NY 10027, 212-854-9920, columbia.edu/cu/wkcr haijazz.com Five Towns College, 305 N. Service, 516-424-7000, x Hills, NY ADDITIONAL JAZZ RESOURCES ShapeShifter Lab, 18 Whitwell Pl, Brooklyn, NY 11215 Greenwich House Music School, 46 Barrow St., Tel: 212-242- Big Apple Jazz, bigapplejazz.com, 718-606-8442, gor- shapeshifterlab.com 4770, Fax: 212-366-9621, greenwichhouse.org [email protected] Showman’s, 375 W. 125th St., 212-864-8941 Juilliard School of Music, 60 Lincoln Ctr, 212-799-5000 Louis Armstrong House, 34-56 107th St, Corona, NY 11368, Sidewalk Café, 94 Ave. A, 212-473-7373 LaGuardia Community College/CUNI, 31-10 Thomson Ave., 718-997-3670, satchmo.net Sista’s Place, 456 Nostrand, Bklyn, 718-398-1766, sistasplace.org Long Island City, 718-482-5151 Institute of Jazz Studies, John Cotton Dana Library, Rutgers- Lincoln Center — Jazz At Lincoln Center, 140 W. 65th St., Skippers Plane St Pub, 304 University Ave. Newark NJ, 973-733- Univ, 185 University Av, Newark, NJ, 07102, 973-353-5595 10023, 212-258-9816, 212-258-9900 Jazzmobile, Inc., jazzmobile.org 9300, skippersplaneStpub.com Long Island University — Brooklyn Campus, Dept. of Music, Smalls Jazz Club, 183 W. 10th St. (at 7th Ave.), 212-929-7565, Jazz Museum in Harlem, 104 E. 126th St., 212-348-8300, University Plaza, Brooklyn, 718-488-1051, 718-488-1372 jazzmuseuminharlem.org SmallsJazzClub.com Manhattan School of Music, 120 Claremont Ave., 10027, Jazz Foundation of America, 322 W. 48th St. 10036, Smith’s Bar, 701 8th Ave, New York, 212-246-3268 212-749-2805, 2802, 212-749-3025 212-245-3999, jazzfoundation.org Sofia’s Restaurant - Club Cache’ [downstairs], Edison Hotel, NJ City Univ, 2039 Kennedy Blvd., Jersey City, 888-441-6528 New Jersey Jazz Society, 1-800-303-NJJS, njjs.org 221 W. 46th St. (between Broadway & 8th Ave), 212-719-5799 New School, 55 W. 13th St., 212-229-5896, 212-229-8936 New York Blues & Jazz Society, NYBluesandJazz.org South Gate Restaurant & Bar, 154 Central Park South, 212-484- NY University, 35 West 4th St. Rm #777, 212-998-5446 Rubin Museum, 150 W. 17th St, New York, NY, 5120, 154southgate.com NY Jazz Academy, 718-426-0633 NYJazzAcademy.com 212-620-5000 ex 344, rmanyc.org. Princeton University-Dept. of Music, Woolworth Center Musical South Orange Performing Arts Center, One SOPAC Studies, Princeton, NJ, 609-258-4241, 609-258-6793 Way, South Orange, NJ 07079, sopacnow.org, 973-313-2787 Spectrum, 2nd floor, 121 Ludlow St. Spoken Words Café, 266 4th Av, Brooklyn, 718-596-3923 Stanley H. 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To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 19 hear specifically thing that’s very refreshing in the older re- that era—that cordings is that when you go back generation- INTERVIEWINTERVIEW vintage of record- ally to that period, it was more often the case ing being played that the group of musicians, often on these all over. So that’s Blue Note records … it was five musicians unique to Japa- like a trumpet, saxophone, piano, bass and Benny Green nese society. This drums ... they’re working together on each very much trans- track to just try to expound on the mood and On Betty Carter, Art Blakey, Oscar Peterson ... lates here in the vibe that’s established right in the melody, the U.S. I have been arrangement of the melody and the character seeing especially of the melody itself of the tune they’re play- Interview & Photo by Eric Nemeyer in the last two, three, four years, a real influx ing ... more so than the individual players of young people coming out to hear the kind showing their wares and kind of showing off Benny: As you may be aware, everywhere of music we play—straight ahead, four-four by proving something of a cutting edge nature you go in Japan, in restaurants, in shopping jazz. And I think there’s something inherent of what their style is—trying to distinguish centers, elevators, you actually here classic in the integrity of the music itself, as much as themselves as individuals ... which has kind of Blue Note and Prestige and Riverside records ourselves—but in straight ahead jazz, and its become an emphasis in recent times that the from the 1950s and the 1960s playing all over disciplines and beauty that young people are musicians somehow within the achievement Japan. And myself and my comrades, we really hungry for today. With such an empha- of all their virtuosity, they can just lay in the speculate on the fact that it can’t be the case sis that’s come I guess with the advent of first cut and just work together to create a mood that all the places this music is being played in music video, and how the internet generation and a feeling in these tracks. The kind of am- Japan, the people at are playing the music and sensationalized award shows like Ameri- bience that they achieved is a profound thing actually even know what it is. But somehow, can Idol and The Voice, that there’s just a real to me. Emotionally, it’s thorough. I can go it’s become embedded in the culture that this push for shock value in music.… I forget if back to these tracks and listen to them again particular era of like hard bop jazz recordings, it’s American Idol or The Voice, it now has and again over the years, and the kind of plac- American hard bop jazz recordings, as I said, Harry Connick as a coach they bring in at es that they take me just visually and in terms it’s especially epitomized by those labels, times for young vocalists. And it’s interesting of just like an inspirational kind of mood are Blue Note and Prestige and Riverside, those because some of these young vocalists will be really deep and beautiful things - whereas, a classic records are played all over the place in covering 20th century American popular lot of what I hear in jazz is represented today Japan. That’s obviously not the case here in songs. And Harry Connick is really represent- by younger players. It comes across to me as the U.S. You do hear it at times in out of the ing kind of the old school approach with these having more of an emphasis on just proving way places, which is always a pleasant sur- students—saying you’ve really get to consider something of a stylistic nature. prise for me. There’s a big department store in the lyric here and the story that’s being told JI: To amplify on what you were just saying … When you would hear players like Thad or “… my first rehearsal with Betty Carter ... Joe Henderson or whoever, and regardless of what music they were playing, their identity I was 20. We were rehearsing a ballad. was instantly recognizable by their sound. They probably weren’t trying to develop a unique sound. It was just their identity. A lot Betty said, ‘Now gentlemen, I want you of younger players I hear now, coming out of school, have astonishing acrobatic technique. to think about the last time you made Is it an athletic sport or is it an artistic endeav- or? When you make that distinction, then you love.’ She turned to me, and she said, realize it dovetails with what you were saying. The harder they are trying to impress with their technique often is inversely proportional ‘You, you just use your imagination.’ to the unique identity that they are hoping to project … and the less I’m able to distinguish She just read me.” one from the next.
Chicago. I was walking through it last year. by the composer. I see these kids say, “Yeah, Benny: I hear what you’re saying. One of my And Dexter Gordon’s recording of “Don’t yeah, okay.” Then they go out there and they students at University of Michigan said, eve- Explain,” Sonny Clark and Butch Warren and sing, and they hit these high notes and the ryone is so intent on trying to sound different Billy Higgins in 1962 …. the album is A hold the high notes, and the audience immedi- that they all sound the same. Swinging Affair. It came on the public ad- ately starts applauding. The whole emphasis dress system all over the store. It was really of what music is even for has really shifted JI: It’s hard to argue against that. wild to hear it. It was with good fidelity, just dramatically, I think, in the last 15 years. So playing across the whole floor. It was wild, something that I appreciate, like a certain aes- Benny: Because, in fact, so many kids – how and I know most of the people shopping, they thetic on those records that I was referring to many kids can stand up and say they’re really don’t know what the music is. But somehow that you hear a lot when you walk around earnestly going about trying to learn the histo- it’s translated to society that it’s very cool Japan, those classic jazz recordings, is that— ry? I mean, there’s so much history to even music. But it’s fascinating to me how in Ja- to me as a listener, being informed by being a learn. pan ... I’m not just saying you hear jazz. You player myself having this perspective, some- (Continued on page 22)
20 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 21 You’re going through hard bop. Something they lost over the years. I think young people Benny Green kind of culminated there with that band and don’t see as much of that, if at all these days. those recordings. And when we went through And that informs the music and the emotion (Continued from page 20) those recordings, it’s really got everything in in music. Now I’m fond of telling a funny it. It’s incredibly hip and fresh—hipper and little anecdote about my first rehearsal with fresher than anything that’s come since. It’s Betty Carter, but it indicates something that JI: I learned a lot by reading the backs of all got the blues in it and they’re taking chances, you don’t get today. I was 20. We were re- those album jackets on those classic labels we and it’s very melodic and you can sing it … hearsing a ballad. Betty said, “Now gentle- were just talking about. and it comprehensible, it’s incredibly sophisti- men, I want you to think about the last time cated on a level that you can’t quite write you made love.” She turned to me, and she Benny: Me too, absolutely. It gives you the down on paper. A lot of the elements that said, “You, you just use your imagination.” personnel, the history, what other records make jazz really great and exciting are there She just read me. The beautiful thing is no- they’ve made, who else they have played on those recordings—the essence of it. A lot body laughed. The guys didn’t laugh and with, who their inspirations were, which is of what has made jazz so universally beloved that’s exactly what happened. So the other huge, who they’re coming out of. I was al- gets overlooked in the whole sort of clinical guys in the group, they thought about the last ways fascinated by that. But I want to say it’s process of young people getting their chops time they made love, and I just used my imag- like getting a chance to be a teacher now, I’m together. There is a fascinating phenomenon ination and just imagined what it would be trying to take a proactive approach because that’s been happening all along with recorded like. But what it did, Eric, was it put us all on it’s not the kid’s fault I feel its the culture music, and the fact that young people can the same page when we played this song. We today. For Wynton Kelly to become the com- come along and sort of hear recorded repre- have some imagery there, and it gave Betty per that he was, he had to be playing all the sentation of a particular artist’s lifelong jour- what she wanted. There was a vibe when we time in all sorts of different quality situations, ney, sweat and tears, the young person can played this song. Things like that aren’t as all the time though. But you can’t comp like kind of come along and say, oh, you mean considered today, and those things are like Wynton Kelly or Tommy Flanagan in a labor- like this, and piggyback on it and get a lot of kind of essential to what music is for in terms atory. And today, it is in fact the case that we the surface of what someone gave a whole of communication and touching people. spend much more time in the practice room lifetime to get together. And that’s potentially than we actually do performing. There’s not a really good thing. But how the music is be- JI: Right. as much work to have an actual consistently ing used… One thing that Freddie Hubbard touring straight ahead jazz group and straight said when I was playing with him, echoing Benny: But I want to help. I don’t want to just ahead being my focus. I know the word jazz is with something you said about the kind of shake my head at the younger generation and used to mean all sorts of eclectic things these chops that young people have today, is that a say they don’t get it. I want to just try to make days. But I’m referring to it meaning straight lot of the young players had more chops in positive exemplification as best I can. The ahead jazz — the kind of music that we play, Freddie’s opinion than some of the guys had essence of how I see my work as a teacher is being a bridge to the recordings. I feel like what the real deal, all the people that you’re mentioning, on the record ... if you want to “A lot of what has made listen to Joe Henderson ... if I can hip them to Larry Young, Unity, then I’m being a good jazz so universally beloved teacher. Point them to the record. I’m not the source but I can definitely be a bridge to this 20th century integrity that I’ve gotten to expe- gets overlooked in the whole rience.
JI: You’ve had experience playing with a sort of clinical process of number of instantly identifiable, influential jazz artists — Ray Brown, Milt Jackson, Fred- young people getting their die Hubbard, Art Blakey. Could you talk about any words of wisdom you received, your experiences. There are obviously many, chops together.” but maybe you could cite one or two in some of these cases that have made a significant not to be exclusive. just want to say, it’s very when Freddie was coming along. Freddie impact on you—that were dramatic or funny difficult, as you realize to actually have a said, “But I miss that feeling.” There’s is cer- or interesting or unique or that somehow or group with the economy. And also, I think the tain kind of warmth in music. I felt like for another moved you or stayed with you. artists should accept some onus too here—its me, my older mentors, Betty Carter and Art how we play the music. There is a way. When Blakey and Freddie Hubbard and Ray Brown Benny: Well, you mentioned Milt Jackson. I listen to myself and a lot of my comrades ... and Oscar Peterson—these people had such a Once, Milt was a guest with Ray Brown’s consider the Miles Davis quintet of the sixties love and such a spoken and unspoken humili- trio. And as you’re probably aware, Milt and and the final recordings of that acoustic ty and reverence to their forefathers that you Ray were like literally musical brothers going group, Nefertiti and The Sorcerer and those got to see being around them and you saw the all the way back to the mid-1940s in Dizzy records, Miles’s quintet. They’re an “A” pick relationship with the music. I saw these peo- Gillespie’s big band. So Milt would often in that particular heritage of the trumpet saxo- ple, most of the people I mentioned, not every make appearances with the trio which was phone quintet ... maybe the shorter history single one of them, cry tears at some point great for me and great for the audience. We kind of starting with Bird and Diz, be-bop. talking about their heroes and mentors that were in Japan and we’d just played a set, and
22 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 sion just becoming better musicians. So if two a connection there. It’s a little difficult to put Benny Green people individually were locked in a room into words, but you feel it. And just feeling with the same records to study, obviously this dynamic sweep, as I said, it really gives Milt was burning. I was feeling the magic as what they’re going to come out with is going you a whole new kind of expanded canvas to we walked offstage. Milt was walking in front to be unique. consider as a bandleader. And then that’s your of me, and I just asked him kind of a geeky responsibility, that’s your job what you do question, meaning to be rhetorical. I said, JI: Could you talk about your experiences with that. But just that opportunity to feel that “Milt, can you just tell me how does it feel to playing with Art Blakey and The Jazz Mes- with Art is a very special kind of privilege. swing like that?” Without hesitation, Milt sengers? And I worked very hard to get to play with turned around and looked me in the eye and Art. I want to note that to young musicians he said, “Natural,” with such a conviction. It Benny: So many things. The first thing comes because from the time I heard the band in per- was as if he was prepared for my question. To to mind was just experiencing, just feeling the son with James Williams in San Francisco at me actually that said quite a bit. It’s a way of kind sweep of color and emotional dynamic the Keystone Corner around 1978, until I life. He just explained it plain and simply— that Art would give us, the Messengers, the heard the next edition of the band with Don- and that said so much to me, that the way one players in his band, compared to how it felt ald Brown playing piano just prior to moving plays is a way of life. You’ve got to know playing the piano during that same timeframe back to New York in 1982, and determined who you are when you’re up there in the first that I was in his band with any other drum- that I was going to be a Messenger more than place. So it’s not like he got up to his vibra- mer. So when I was on Art’s bandstand, it I wanted to be in the band. This was going to phone and then turned on some inner swing truly felt as if I had some sort of wings and it happen. I felt a conviction about this. It was mechanism. It’s how he walks, how he thinks, truly felt that I was rather invincible, so pow- about five, six years before I actually was how he chews his food. Consistently, with all erful that I was invincible. When I would go invited into the band. I think it’s really im- these masters you’ve mentioned that I was and play with another drummer, it would feel portant for young people to consider that if privileged to get to be around, I saw that they as if the bottom dropped out. Whatever that there’s someone they really want to play with lived with an ongoing awareness and love for incredibly magical thing that had been going or they have some kind of musical or artistic their musical heroes and inspirations. They on was, wasn’t there anymore. Then you real- goal …. I don’t want to speak of career goals, answered to those people at all times, and yet ized that Art was playing you. He has that I want to focus on the music. I meet a lot of they had reached a certain kind of level of self -awareness and self-acceptance. And they also knew who they were. For example, Oscar Peterson said to me, quoting, he said, “Every “I’ve got to consider what is my time I play, I endeavor to pay homage to three gentlemen, not that I’m always successful, because those three gentlemen are Art Tatum, core objective as a jazz artist, as Nat King Cole, and Henry Hank Jones.” This is me talking now. I’m saying, if you listen to a jazz messenger ... it is Oscar Peterson, in the course of about eight or sixteen bars, if you’ve really checked those people out, who he’s talking about, you can essentially to be able to play the actually hear their influence in his very voice. Yet, you can also say it’s pure Oscar Peterson. Oscar Peterson’s voice is built from those music with quality, and integrity, people and some others of course, he’s point- ed out. Dizzy Gillespie really influenced his and honesty, and have it be heard.” sense of accent. He’s illustrated that to me. So without them, we have no Oscar, and yet when you hear it, it’s unmistakably Oscar kind of drive that he could just breathe life young people who want to ask career related Peterson. That’s a very important example of into what you were doing and instill a confi- questions. But the career I have been privi- something that my teacher, my New York dence in it. He had this whole trajectory, this leged to realize has all come through me tak- father, Walter Bishop Jr., started talking to me whole intention of grooming the Messengers ing care of the music. Nothing swayed me about when I was 19, that there are these three to become band leaders themselves. He would year after year after year after year after year logical stages of evolution, one having to fol- encourage you to write music for the band. As after year. Nothing swayed me from my goal low the other—imitation, assimilation and he said, “After we’ve been playing your beat to be a Messenger. My focus to keep going to innovation. Not that most of us get to the third for a few weeks, you won’t even recognize hear the band as much as possible and sneak one, but they sort of have to go in that se- it’s the same tune anymore.” That was true. my little walk-man cassette recorder into the quence. I make no secret of the fact that I’ve But he didn’t want you to make a career out shows and record them and stay abreast of the really never endeavored to become an innova- of staying in the band. He helped you develop band’s repertoire, practice along with tapes, tor. I think innovation by definition is a rare your style as a writer and as a player, your practice along with their records, and really and special thing. It’s been suggested to me, voice, and then he would boot you out of the consider what the pianists in the band Johnny which I think you were saying yourself in nest and save it for somebody younger. He O’Neal and Mulgrew Miller and then Donald other words earlier, that the voices these peo- was a kind of vampire himself. But in the Brown again before I joined the band, what ple achieved, was not necessarily a result of group, I found confidence, not so much of an they were doing and how they played with their intent on trying to sound different, or egotistical swagger, but just actually Art Art, as much as I’d considered Horace Silver. trying to distinguish their sounds. But it oc- showed me how it could feel driving the band I just really stayed focused on being this pia- curred through their hard work and their pas- from the piano. By him driving me, there was (Continued on page 24)
To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 23 understand what you’re saying now, but at the often the case that the four instruments would Benny Green time, as a kid, sure enough as I’m like sort of start together and at some point in Coltrane’s round about kind of accusing these kids of solos, McCoy Tyner might drop out. Then (Continued from page 23) today, I was looking for chops. What’s the maybe later, Jimmy Garrison might drop out edgy thing he’s doing? Where’s the stylistic too. It might end up being a duet with Col- nist that Art would want in the band. So I thing that’s hot? In keeping with what I appre- trane and Elvin Jones on the drums. I just con- think it’s very important for young people not ciate more now as an older person, he was in sidered that maybe that’s what’s going on to give up, not to be shortsighted, give up fact as you said, serving the music. with some of these solos Freddie is playing after a month or a year on a vision. If they with this certain intensity to start with—and really want it, you’ve got to stay with it. I had JI: Absolutely, yeah. When you were playing it’s building that really at some point, the pi- just a note of you mentioning Thad Jones and with Freddie Hubbard, what kinds of instruc- ano should drop out. I should figure that out— Mel Lewis and Roland Hanna. When I was in tion or ideas did he suggest or more than that? just kind of really tune into the arc of his solo high school and I got to be a member of and figure that out musically on my own— what’s now called the Next Generation Jazz Benny: On my first few gigs with Freddie without him having to interrupt the flow of Orchestra at the Monterey Jazz Festival. At Hubbard, something happened which was what he’s doing to say to me don’t play. So, the time it was the high school all-stars, the really kind of embarrassing. Freddie would be the next time I got on the bandstand with year I was there in 1978. Thad Jones and Mel reaching a certain point in his solo and the Freddie, I had it in mind that I am going to Lewis were guest directors. So someone re- energy would be kind of peaking, and Freddie drop out at some point, and start listening hearsed us during the week prior to the week- would sort of turn his head in the direction of from the time the solo begins to the shape of end and Thad and Mel actually showing up. the piano and shout audibly to the audience, it, and the rhythmic density, and just feel So I had these piano charts with these chord lay out. That happened on the first couple of when it’s a good time to kind of dovetail and charts, page after page, all these chords writ- gigs. I realized after it happened a second just kind of back out of there. That’s what I ten, slash marks for beats. But I’d listen to the time, this was definitely not good. I couldn’t did, and that never happened again that Fred- records and I heard that there was a lot of time afford for this to happen a third time because die shouted at me to lay out, and I stayed on where Sir Roland was strolling, where if you I’d probably get fired. I had to figure out what the gig for a few more years. I eventually look at the chart it would almost infer literally was going on, and my instincts told me not to stopped playing with Freddie when I joined that you’re supposed to play it where there’s a bother Freddie with it, not to ask him. I was Ray Brown’s trio. I kind of kept doing both chord symbol lit. So when Thad finally going to have to really put on my thinking jobs for a while. Then it came to a point showed up, I told him that I was listening to cap, Eric. So that’s what I did. I said, okay, where I had to sort of decide which I was go- the record and I noticed that although these what’s going on here. There’s something I’m ing to do. So I went with Ray which was in- chords are written on all these pages, that a lot doing that’s obtrusive. So I had to think about credible for me—and it ended for me being of times Sir Roland wasn’t playing. And what it was that Freddie didn’t want happen- my longest tenure as a sideman in any one Thad’s face just lit up. He said, “That’s right.” ing, and I considered how his solos were feel- group, four and a half years. So I mention that story about Freddie, and considering what was going on, when he wanted me to stroll, and “the voices these people achieved, thinking about Coltrane, referencing the Col- trane recordings, as an example of why, just was not necessarily a result of their one reason, it’s essential for kids to listen and absorb the history through records. But I’m like you, Eric. No one had to tell me you need intent on trying to sound different, to listen to records of the John Coltrane quar- tet like saying you need to eat your vegeta- or trying to distinguish their bles. I couldn’t get enough of it. JI: Well, the way we became curious about other jazz mu- sounds. But it occurred through sicians and learning the history was by read- ing the often elaborate liner notes on the back of those album jackets on Blue Note, Prestige, their hard work and their passion Riverside, Contemporary and other labels. You’d look at the back of one album and just becoming better musicians.” you’d see the name of some other sideman you had not heard of, and then you’d go to the He said, “That’s good.” Of course, he didn’t ing ... where the energy was going as his solo record bin with his name on it and start the want me playing all the time. But I must con- was developing, to a point that midway in his process all over again. fess, hearing Sir Roland on those records, solo, he would want me to stop playing. Then Eric, as a kid listening to Herbie and Chick it rather suddenly occurred to me some simi- Benny: Absolutely. and everything, I couldn’t quite, quite appre- larities in what Freddie Hubbard does as a ciate the subtlety of a lot of what he was do- writer and player filtered down—with his JI: One bit of information would lead you to ing. It wasn’t flashy, per se. being influenced by John Coltrane and Col- the next, and you’d explore your way trane’s music. I just thought about John Col- “geographically” through the music of these JI: Right. It fit right in and it didn’t stand out trane’s quartet, which I would only know by different players—players who you’d hear from the whole, but contributed to make the listening to recordings of the John Coltrane and develop a curiosity about. You’d often be whole greater than the sum of the parts. quartet of course—since I wasn’t there at the teaching yourself and filling in the blanks for time the group was happening, that on the yourself—as opposed to somebody telling you Benny: Amen, as it was endeavoring to do. I records of the John Coltrane quartet. It was that should do this or you should listen to that
24 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 to be – six or eight or whatever on an album, magical place. I also felt like there were hid- Benny Green you know, side one, side two, or even with a den secrets to aspects of the photograph in the CD. The sequencing would create a certain notes on the tracks I’m listening to. I really because a third party told you that you should, mood and feeling and understanding that was believed that. It was that enchanting to me. Of as opposed to your being attracted to the mu- as essential as the performance and sound of course, I was a child. I was like barely ten sic organically. Maybe it’s hip to be un-hip. the individual tracks themselves. The se- years old. Even trying to find one of those quencing suggested things to the ear and the Blue Note records … you just had a little Benny: Yeah. If there is such a thing as being body—and that might elicit certain universal small image inside a sleeve … and you actual- hip, it must have something to do with being understandings as each of us resonated with ly found a copy in a used record store. It was yourself, just being authentic to yourself. I can the music on the album. The album might a real romance. You felt like it was meant for trace … when you mentioned tangents … start with an up-tempo tune, and then maybe a you to find that copy of the record. McCoy is my second hero, after Monk. I dis- Bossa Nova, or some other groove. Then covered Monk because my father was listen- maybe there was a ballad that just cooled JI: Yeah, there was an excitement about kind ing to his records at home. They did that tour down the mood, and grabbed you in a certain of looking through those record bins, and see- around 1978 or so. I keep mentioning that way … because you had your eyes closed, or ing the sometimes amazing graphical images year for some reason—the Milestone [label] it was the evening and you were looking out on the front covers, that sparked your imagi- All-Stars, Sonny Rollins, McCoy, Ron Carter, over the park, or something like that. That nation about the musicians, what it is you and Al Foster. There ended up being some gets lost today—as listeners can simply go might discover and so on. There was a whole kind of award show on public television—a online, isolate certain single tracks of entire kind of storyline for each of us as we traveled duet of Sonny Rollins and McCoy Tyner play- recorded performances, and download those roads of exploration and the hidden jew- ing. I recall there being “My One and Only those—completely bypassing that other over- els we expected to find. Although the music Love.” I was just transfixed just checking out arching message that the artist may have em- obviously spoke to us in a variety of ways— what McCoy Tyner was doing and just watch- bedded in the completed artwork by virtue of so that there’s a common connection— ing Monk—such a unique thing. The way he the sequencing of the songs. So, people and everybody’s who kind of grown to love this connects with the piano is like nothing else. hear single songs. Imagine going to the Muse- music and be attracted to it obviously had, So I went to the public library here in Berke- um of Modern Art, and looking at a Picasso, like you said, that magical moment, a moment ley, and I found Coltrane Live at Birdland. or a Rembrandt, or something, and the top where a magic wand was waved, and sudden-
“I should just kind of really tune into the arc of his solo and figure that out musically on my own—without him having to interrupt the flow of what he’s doing to say to me don’t play …start listening from the time the solo begins to the shape of it, and the rhythmic density, and just feel when it’s a good time to kind of dovetail and just kind of back out of there.”
There are photographs inside. You could open half, or right upper corner or lower left center ly you have this “golden dust” that came over up the album’s book like jacket. There are of the painting was removed or isolated or you to connect you with and be transported to these photographs of him with his hair cut covered over. Would you get the same sensa- an entirely different situation or realm. close and sweating. I was imagining being on tion, understanding, imaginings and connec- that bandstand at Birdland. As you know, they tion with the artist if that were the case? Benny: Yes. I feel like that is something that miss all that with mp3s. music is for. It can bring us into another Benny: I’m with you, man. The size of the LP realm. JI: Part of the interest and development of cover [12 inches square] was also a factor. your understanding of the music and the dis- Like just the Wayne Shorter records on Blue JI: I don’t get that feeling in as high a ratio cography and everything else—whether from Note—I would look at the cover of like Speak with the numerous recordings that we receive the standpoint of a fan, a listener, a musician No Evil or Juju or Night Dreamer, and just for review—as I did from releases in the past. …. was that the songs on each album were stare at those covers while listening to those Maybe that’s because there are just so many sequenced to create a whole, an entire artistic six tracks. more albums being released in this independ- presentation and experience—whether it was ent music environment and reality and corre- an album by the Beatles, Sinatra or Coltrane JI: It could often be a comprehensive sensory sponding fewer barriers to entry or quality or anyone else. There was intelligence, focus, experience—visual, aural … controls. And in all fairness, many of the al- reason behind the sequencing of the tracks on bums to which I’m referring are tops from an album—however many those tracks happened Benny: Totally. It’s like you’re going to a (Continued on page 26)
To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 25 there to accommodate the time limitation of JI: Yes. Whereas today, it seems like every Benny Green the LP. The bottom line is that the music at- other album is a tribute to some past artist. tracted me when I first heard it—even though Benny: Yes, yes, yes. Well, that’s really em- I had very little idea about what I was listen- (Continued from page 25) barrassing. You know, I had a successful do- ing to. mestic festival appearance with my trio this audio standpoint with musicians whose tech- spring. I won’t say which festival, but it’s a nique has been honed to Olympic perfection Benny: Yeah. I’m sure we could agree there’s respected festival in this country, and we were in every way. Yet, there is some kind of emo- a reason why that is, because the Blackhawk, well received, well reviewed, and the promot- tion missing sometimes, or the feeling that the that music you’re talking about—it’s built on er wants us back next year. Wonderful, right? artist is trying too hard to be different to com- something which is built upon something But he asked if next year we could do it with a municate that they have a unique voice or which is built upon something. And it’s got Bud Powell theme. And like now let’s put a sound—by using or forcing some odd time deep, deep, deep roots going back to, you name on the Bud Powell theme. And I just signature, assimilating some styles of music know, they’re actually playing the blues on want to say, look, obviously if not for Bud from different cultures, making a form have that record. And a lot of young people today Powell and all the other founding fathers, I some unusual number of bars, and going to consider Coltrane to be old. wouldn’t have a note to play. I wouldn’t have harmonically varied places … contrived to be a career as a jazz pianist. different for the sake of being different in JI: From time to time an independent musi- hopes of being recognized. cian will tell me that they have nothing to JI: I think that it makes sense to pay tribute to promote—because their current album was one’s mentors from time to time. Benny: The pretense. I hear you man. Well, released six months ago or a year ago. But, admittedly, I keep my head buried in the sand. unless the music has an expiration date on it, Benny: I think so too. My point is, and at The records that I’m talking about, those clas- their self-sabotaging perspective does not least it’s organic that he’s not asking me to a sic records, listening to my favorite pianist, make sense. And, in all likelihood most pro- tribute to Sting or something, a tribute to one and saturating myself in their recordings— spective listeners for their music, don’t even of my actual heroes. But, on the other hand at that has no end. I’ll be doing that for the rest know that the album exists, let alone that they some point, I think what an honest jazz band of my life. might think it is outdated as the musicians leader is fighting for is the right to be able to themselves have lamented to me. So I ask actually program their own set. I just did that, JI: There a motivational speaker who I had musicians—have you ever heard of the album and based on what I did, being able to pro- heard, who passed away a few years ago, Jim Kind of Blue? It was recorded in 1959. It’s gram my own set—the audience loved me, the Rohn. At one point about – he said that when still one of the biggest selling jazz albums— critics appreciated it, and they want us back. he would go to the movies or hear a piece of and artistically aware people wouldn’t call it That’s being overlooked. It wasn’t just how music that he wanted to have that movie take outdated. It is timeless. It may not be your the three of us played our instruments. It was him somewhere. He was referring to the pos- favorite or my favorite album, but the fact is in fact the repertoire and the presentation that was part of this whole thing. It’s part and par-
tial, and just an indicator of this generation “a huge lesson among others for us in and how things become marketed on the inter- net, and us needing buzz words and titles. And it’s just so different from how music was Kind of Blue is the fact that it conveys created. But I do realize I need to be able to be aware of what’s happened before that I no influence of an A&R director telling appreciate, that we can benefit from, that I have some kind of responsibility having been Miles what record of Chet Baker’s was shown by mentors who have passed on to uphold today. I also can’t be blind to realities of today. I’ve got to consider what is my core selling that year, and how Miles should objective as a jazz artist, as a jazz messenger …. it is essentially to be able to play the mu- try to make his record more like that.” sic with quality, and integrity, and honesty, and have it be heard. I’m wanting young peo- sibilities that those experiences might expand that unless you think that your music is not ple to get a chance to hear this music played his understanding of the world, or of people, timeless, or what you put into creating that in person, music that swings and has some of human nature and so on. I think that can song that you’re writing, or that song you’re blues and it still feels fresh and hip. You get accurately be applied to the music we listen recording is not of some timeless nature, and a to experience that in person—and not just to. It’s 40 years later, and I’m still listening to snapshot of who you are at the moment …. come to equate it only to something that’s old Miles [Davis] at the Blackhawk, and finding then perhaps your perspective may benefit on an old record. So I’m very happy to see more and more to like about it as I become from being more open. that’s taking place, that there are young peo- more and more attuned to the subtleties I had ple – not just young musicians, but folks in missed when I first started listening. I remem- Benny: Yes. I’m with you. And a huge lesson their twenties and thirties and teenagers com- ber years ago transcribing Hank Mobley’s among others for us in Kind of Blue is the fact ing out to hear our music. That means there’s solo, and Wynton Kelly’s solo on “Bye, Bye that it conveys no influence of an A&R direc- something inherent in the feeling of the music Blackbird,” and then “All of You.” I always tor telling Miles what record of Chet Baker’s itself and how we’re playing it that’s mean- thought there was something missing on “All was selling that year, and how Miles should ingful to these kids.
Of You” on the LP. Sure enough it was Hank try to make his record more like that. Mobley’s solo that they surgically cut out of
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To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 27 etcetera.—but proached by Peak Performances at Montclair very alien at the University to write a commission for them, INTERVIEWINTERVIEW same time — and it occurred to me to write something that high rise build- would combine a large ensemble interacting ings, subway with audio and video samples from interviews trains… Even at that dealt with the subject of Identity form a Miguel Zenon that young age it Puerto Rican perspective. David Dempewolf, had a profound a video artist who had worked with Jason Mo- “focus on the things that matter the most” effect on me. ran and was highly recommended by him, put Later in life, together the video installment for the piece. when I moved to We performed it in its entirety a few times Interview by Eric Nemeyer the States for good, first to Boston and then to before recording in early 2014. New York, I was able to experience these JI: Could you discuss your CD Identities Are same feelings from a more mature perspec- JI: What were the challenges to your musical Changeable and the evolution of that record- tive. It was just amazing to me to see this lev- passion and pursuits that you experienced ing from initial concept to completed work of el of commitment to an Identity, especially growing up in a housing project in San Juan art? from individuals who could barely speak Puerto Rico? Spanish and had visited the island only a few MZ: This recording is inspired by the idea of times, if any at all. It all seemed contradictory MZ: I grew up in a place called “Residencial national identity from the perspective of the to me at the time—a feeling that has changed Luis Llorens Torres”, the largest housing pro- Puerto Rican community in the United States, dramatically after working on this project. In ject in the Caribbean—150 buildings and specifically in the New York City area. I any case, my interest in the matter continued thousands of residents. Although it is consid- wrote the music around a series of interviews growing the longer I lived here and away ered one of the roughest places in the island if with various individuals, all of them New from Puerto Rico. About 4 or 5 years ago I not the roughest, my childhood there was not Yorkers of Puerto Rican descent. Those con- met a gentleman by the name of Juan Flores rough at all. The people in my household versations led to specific themes such as after a gig in the city. We quickly realized that made sure that I stayed on the right track and “”Home”, “Language” and “Identity”. Those we had a lot of friends in common. Juan—one that I had a good circle of friends. Plus I was a themes eventually turned into the composi- of the greatest academic voices on the subject disciplined kid, made aware early on about the consequences of poor decisions and bad company. It was in this neighborhood where I had my first formal exposure to music, from “A lot of these lessons also Ernesto Vigoreaux, a gentlemen who taught music to kids in the neighborhood free of charge. had to do with what not to JI: How did your classical saxophone studies do: how not to treat your prepare you for your subsequent interests and developments in jazz?
band mates, etcetera. You MZ: I attended a performing arts middle school-high school called “Escuela Libre de Musica” from age 11 to 17. My training there learn by example and by was exclusively classical, but it was very good. I was trained extensively on ear train- ing, solfege, classical harmony and ensemble making mistakes, which I playing. When I eventually came over to the states to study jazz all this training helped immensely, because I was very well prepared think is one of the greatest on all my fundamentals and on the technical aspects of the instrument. things about this music.” JI: What were some of the experiences, re- cordings or artists that sparked your interest in tions on the CD. The whole idea of “Identity” of the Puerto Rican community in the US, jazz and opened the door for you to develop and the phenomenon that is the Puerto Rican who sadly passed away a few months ago— your skills as an improviser? community in New York City is something gave me a copy of his book, The Diaspora that has interested me for a very long time. Strikes Back. The central element of the book MZ: My first exposure to jazz came around My father lived in New York for a long time was a series of interviews he conducted with age 15. Some of my friends at school starting and I have a lot family here from his side. individuals with Caribbean heritage—Puerto passing around tapes and I eventually got to When I was about ten years old I came over to Rican, Dominican, Cuban. On those inter- hear Charlie Parker for the first time. I was New York City for the first time to visit them views he would speak to them about their very impressed by his control, technique and and got my first taste of the community here. relationships with their specific countries and sound; but when I realized that he was mostly It felt then as being around something very how that had shaped their identities as human improvising I was blown away. The concept familiar—same language, same food, music, beings. Around that same time I was ap- (Continued on page 30)
28 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 29 time at Berklee. People like Billy Pierce, Hal lessons also had to do with what not to do: Miguel Zenon Crook and Ed Tomassi inspired me tremen- how not to treat your band mates, etcetera. dously. Plus I was greatly inspired by my fel- You learn by example and by making mis- (Continued from page 28) low students, most of whom were a lot more takes, which I think is one of the greatest advance than I was in terms of the jazz lan- things about this music. of improvisation is obviously not exclusive of guage and indirectly forced me to push myself jazz music and was not entirely new to me, harder in order to progress musically. People JI: How did your additional schooling at the but I had never witnessed at this level. Jazz in like Avishai and Anat Cohen, Jeremy Pelt, Manhattan School of Music contribute to your many ways represented to me the perfect Antonio Sanchez and Jaleel Shaw were all at development as a performer and or composer? combination of something that was both Berklee while I was there. But the person who heartfelt and intellectual. From there I found had the most profound effect on me while I MZ: Once I graduated for Berklee I wasn’t others: Miles, Coltrane, Cannonball, Monk. I was in Boston was Danilo Perez. Danilo was sure about what to do. Going to New York became obsessed with jazz and eventually one of my greatest sources of inspiration back made a bit of sense, because I had family realized that this was what I wanted to do with then—still is, actually. Not only because of there, but I didn’t feel comfortable with mov- my life. his music, but because—as a Latin American ing there without a pre-set agenda. So I opted musician playing jazz music—he represented for graduate school, which gave me some- JI: What were the circumstances that led you a lot of the things I wanted to achieve. I intro- thing to do while acclimating to the city. Man- to study at Berklee College of Music? duced myself to him after a concert and he hattan School of Music was one of my first was immediately very receptive and welcom- options and they gave me a good scholarship, MZ: When I decided that I wantedxxxxxxxxxx to study ing. I would get together with him constantly, so I went there. I got the most there from Dick jazz more formally it was quickly evident that to play or talk about music and life. I figured Oatts, my saxophone teacher there, and again I had to leave Puerto Rico to do so. There out a lot of stuff about myself because of his from my peers—guys like Dan Weiss, Miles were no higher education institutions for jazz help, and will be eternally grateful to him for Okazaki and Ben Gerstein. But I also got to at that time, plus the scene was very small. I that. It was also through Danilo that I met take some survey and composition classes did a bit of research and it seemed like Berk- David Sanchez, who sort of took his place as from the classical department there, which lee was the best option for I was looking for my mentor once I moved to New York City. really opened up my mind and ears from a then. Unfortunately my family could not pro- composer’s perspective. vide me with any financial support, so after JI: Could you share some of the words of graduating high school I stayed in Puerto Rico wisdom or motivation that you received, or JI: What have you discovered about conduct- for about a year and a half, basically working conversations that you may have had with ing business from your various activities as a sideman, as a leader, as a record label artist, and so on?
MZ: I’ve learned that the creative and busi- “I’m very aware that, ness sides of music are very different. The creative side is in many ways that ever- growing thing that keeps you going, and the although recognition business side is sort of like a game that you have to learn how to play in order to survive. Strangely enough, both are almost equally important, although is very hard to stay on top might make me and my of both.
JI: What were the challenges that you experi- music more visible to enced when you arrived in New York?
MZ: I would imagine that the challenges I encountered then are the same a young musi- some, it does not make cian would encounter these days. Most of the musicians we admire are based in or around New York, so by being there you are basically me better as an artist.” in competition with them. Plus, there are a lot of young musicians like you, eager to make an impact and get better. So, being able to make and saving money. Eventually I was able to artists or mentors in or out of the music world a living from music becomes a lot harder than combine a few scholarships with my savings - that have developed as key understandings it would be elsewhere. It takes a lot of hard and moved to Boston in the spring of 1996. for you? work and even some luck to be able to stay in the city for a long time. There were a lot of JI: Who were the artists or mentors with MZ: They are too many to mention, really. great things about it also. Like being able to whom you connected in Boston that inspired Some of the greatest lessons have come from interact with some of your heroes and learn you and perhaps opened the door for your my musical elders: how to present yourself on from them. Also, feeling part of a community, move to New York City? stage; how to organize a set of music; how to a collective of individuals that, although very act as a sideman and as a bandleader; how to different, are all striving for the same things. MZ: I got a lot from my teachers during my deal with the road, etcetera. A lot of these
30 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 MZ: Even though I grew up in Puerto Rico, man nature as a result of those interviews? Miguel Zenon surrounded by a lot of music and culture, I How did that undertaking give you greater didn’t really start paying serious attention to insight into yourself and your artistic pursuits JI: Having been awarded a MacArthur Geni- that stuff until much later in life. It wasn’t and development? us Award, a Guggenheim Fellowship, among until after I graduated Berklee and starting other accolades and high profile media cover- taking my first attempts at writing my own MZ: I went into the project with one big age, how have you maintained your balance music that I realized that I had never studied question in mind: What does it mean to be and avoided allowing these experiences to Puerto Rican music from a musicians perspec- Puerto Rican? Or for that matter: What does it inflate your ego? tive. So I made it sort of a personal goal of mean to be from anywhere? What defines our mine to go do just that, get a bit deeper into National and Cultural Identity? Of course I MZ: It is, of course, very rewarding to be recognized for your work. In some ways it makes you feel that is worth the grind and that “Respect the tradition, respect your you’re on the right path. But on the other hand I’m very aware that, although recognition might make me and my music more visible to peers, work as hard as possible, be some, it does not make me better as an artist. I’m a firm believer on being my own judge professional and responsible, have and not losing sight on what I need to work on to get better, all on my own terms.xxxxxxxxxx confidence without losing your
JI: What words of advice would you offer to focus, be honest about your music other musical artists, in the jazz world, that might lead them on a path to develop their and be proactive when dealing with lives and experience the kind of notoriety you have attracted in the past few years? the music business side of things.” MZ: This is what I feel has worked for me: Respect the tradition, respect your peers, work the development and history of that music. understand now that there is no “correct an- as hard as possible, be professional and re- The more I did it, the more natural it felt. swer” to that question. It depends so much on sponsible, have confidence without losing Eventually I started identifying elements from each personality, each life experience, oppor- your focus, be honest about your music and be Puerto Rican, Caribbean and Latin-American tunities that are presented to us and what we proactive when dealing with the music busi- music in general that I could incorporate into decide to do with them. The variety of re- ness side of things. my music in an organic and honest way. sponses I encountered during the process was really the most enlightening thing for me. On JI: What are some of the noteworthy under- JI: Could you talk about how your artistry top of that it made me think about my place standings that you have gleaned from your and playing has developed from Jíbaro here in the United States, having lived here associations with members of the SF Jazz (2005), and continuing with Esta Plena now for more than half of my life. It also Collective—such as Bobby Hutcherson? Josh- (2009) and Alma Adentro: The Puerto Rican brought family into perspective: My daughter ua Redman? Others? Songbook (2011) (both Grammy-nominated), Elena was born in New York City, and even and Oye!!! Live In Puerto Rico (2013) and though my wife, who is also Puerto Rican, MZ: Working with The Collective is proba- now into 2015—during the ten year period? and I will do everything in our power to make bly one of the most fulfilling musical experi- What changes have you observed about your- sure that she’s exposed to as much as we were ences of my life. It is a leader-less ensemble self over this period? exposed growing up in the island, we do un- that functions as a true collective. We work on derstand that eventually our daughter’s identi- a new book of music every season, so it also MZ: Like I mentioned before, a lot of my ty will be hers to decide. works as a composer’s workshop, something own efforts as a band leader during the past that has been very helpful to me. We are treat- decade have been concentrated on the music JI: Identities Are Changeable is composed ed very well and with a lot respect by and culture of Puerto Rico, and the Caribbean, and arranged for a 16 piece ensemble – big SFJAZZ and get a two-week rehearsal period and finding ways to balance that with ideas band instrumentation. Who are some of the every season to put this music together. PLUS that come from the jazz tradition. I still feel arrangers and what are some of the big band, I’ve gotten to play with some of the greatest like I have a long way to go and many more and or other compositions and scores that you exponents of this music: Joshua, Bobby, Brian things left to explore, but I feel comfortable have studied that have contributed to your Blade, Nicholas Payton, Renee Rosnes, Dave about the road I’m in at this point in my life. own development as a writer? Douglas, Joe Lovano, Eric Harland and many others. I personally couldn’t ask much more JI: The core idea of your new CD Identities MZ: It helped to get a lot of experience play- out of a musical situation that what I have Are Changeable is based on a series of Eng- ing in large ensembles myself: The Village with this ensemble. lish-language interviews you conducted with Vanguard Orchestra, The Mingus Big Band, seven New Yorkers of Puerto Rican descent Jason Lindner’s Big Band, Guillermo Klein, y JI: How has your heritage from Puerto Rico — inspired after you read the book—The Di- Los Guachos, and many others. That definite- contributed to the development of your voice, aspora Strikes Back: Caribeño Tales of ly put a sound in my head, and gave me an sound and vocabulary as an improviser in Learning and Turning, a book by cultural idea of how it felt to deal with something like jazz? theorist Juan Flores. What kinds of discover- that. When going into the project I did check ies or enlightenment did you glean about hu- (Continued on page 32)
To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 31 to play he left it all there; gave it all to the stress about it too much to be honest. Just stay Miguel Zenon music - a very special human being who will the course, working hard and staying focus on be dearly missed. the things that matter the most. (Continued from page 31) JI: How do your activities as an educator at JI: What are your perspectives on balancing a out a lot music: from Duke Ellington, Bob New England Conservatory of Music support purity of purpose about creating music that Brookmeyer and Bill Holman to more modern or challenge your artistic pursuits? you hear and want to see come to life, with composers like John Hollenbeck and Darcy the simultaneous attractor and consideration James Argue. It helped me figure out what MZ: I’ve come to really enjoy teaching. It of trying to connect with and or please your would suit both me and the project best. makes me discover things (even things about current and potential audiences? myself) that I wouldn’t have discovered other- JI: What kind of guidance and or inspiration wise and I feel it makes me a better musician. MZ: I think it is obvious that when we make did Charlie Haden provide you during your Plus I get the opportunity to share with music we want others to enjoy it and respect experiences on and or off the stage working younger musicians and maybe help them find it. Sharing is sort of an essential part of what with him? the tools that could make them become better this is all about. But I feel that, from my crea- at what they do. And New England Conserva- tive standpoint, making music to please others MZ: I met Charlie in 2003 at the North Sea tory is a really good place to teach. Students is not only dis-honest but also counterproduc- Jazz Festival. He came to listen to our band there are, for the most part, very talented, hard tive. The music we make should be an honest and we talked for a long time after the show, -working and respectful, and the folks who reflection of us as artists, and we should set mostly about music we liked, like Charlie run the department do a very good job at it. our own standards in terms of what deserves Parker and Silvio Rodriguez. He mentioned a to be shared and what does not. We should be few projects he had in mind that he would like JI: Given the nature of the niche that jazz is, celebrating the fact that we’ve been provided me to be a part of: One was Land of the Sun, a the current reality of this being a contracting with a vehicle to express ourselves as artists. project he was putting together in collabora- market, the challenges of selling prerecorded If, after taking all these things into considera- tion with Gonzalo Rubalcaba. The other was a music, because of illegal downloading, copy- tion, our music is also recognized and accept- revival of The Liberation Music Orchestra. right infringement and so on—what kind of ed, then that gives us something else to cele- Working with Charlie was a highlight of my vision do you have for yourself about experi- brate. But it should not be our priority. life so far, not only musically but also on a encing some of your hopes and goals in the personal level. He loved music, was incredi- next five or even ten years? bly passionate about it and we could talk for hours about specific musicians and record- MZ: Is hard to tell where is all going, since it ings. And no matter what, when it came time seems to change almost daily. I try not to
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ORDER Start Your Promotion NOW! - PressToRelease.com To Advertise CALL:Experience 215-887-8880 ResultsFebruary-March 2019 In Jazz 24-48 Inside Magazine Hours! www.JazzInsideMagazine.com CALL 215- 887-8880 33 Chuck: Right. So my life with Bill was fulfilling, whom I had met at Brandeis; Rod Levitt; Greg Chuck Israels deeply fulfilling while it lasted, and then I wanted Herbert; Bob Mintzer; Sal Nistico; Bill Dobbins; control-which meant that I had to do my homework Bill Goodwin; Dave Berger, who became my part- and learn to be a composer/arranger, and I’ve spent ner in that and was tremendously helpful. It was a (Continued from page 12) my life doing that. It’s taken me years and years great band and I kept it together as long as I could and years to be able to listen to my own music and and never had the kind of backing that Wynton has Chuck: Boy. You know, it was concentrated work. feel as if it stands comparison with Bill’s music. been able to get from Lincoln Center. It was before A guy interviewed me - not so smart guy - a couple its time. Some of the recordings that we have-I of weeks ago and asked me, “Well, when you’re JI: Once you left Bill and you began going out on have a lot of live recordings of that band that are playing with Bill, since Scott La-Faro was such a your own in 1966, what were the kinds of profes- better than the recordings that we made in the stu- powerful iconic musical personality and he preced- sional situations that you began to be involved in dio ... a lot better. And a record company is now ed you, were you thinking about what Scott had for those several years beyond that, before the Na- interested in releasing those. done?” I answered him alright, but really the an- tional Jazz Ensemble? swer to that is what do you think people have time JI: Where were the live recordings made? to do? Chuck: The National Jazz Ensemble was my effort at doing what Wynton has done with much more Chuck: Various places, different schools that we JI: You’re too busy making music. It’s like the success 20 years later. But I worked with J.J. John- played at - Purchase, Ithaca College, Corning, New quote that goes, “Don’t worry about what people son, which I very much enjoyed. I worked with York, Eastman School of Music, various places are thinking about you. They’re too busy thinking Bobby Timmons also, I enjoyed that. I got a lot of that we had performances. South Carolina, we did a about what you’re thinking about them.” different little jobs, and then I got work in Broad- tour of South Carolina at one point and quite a way theater in order to survive. I hated that, but it number of the recordings come from that tour, Chuck: Exactly. And I also thought that if you did make me a living. some at the New School. We played at the New were given the chance to be with Marilyn Monroe, School and we had some guest soloists-Gerry Mul- would you spend any time thinking about [her ex- JI: Were there any noteworthy shows that you ligan, Budd Johnson, Tommy Flanagan. It was an husbands] Joe DiMaggio or Arthur Miller? initially enjoyed the music that you were playing? interesting time. Who knew that it was the good old days? I look back on that and say, “Boy, if I could JI: Of course not. Chuck: I don’t think anyone enjoys playing the find players like that now.” same music the same way eight shows a week. Chuck: So I was simply enjoying - that’s too lim- JI: A few years ago one of the sax players who ited a word - I was in deep satisfaction just making JI: Of course not. What were the shows at that came up in the New York loft scene in the 1960s my sound be part of that music. time? and 70s explained how everyone would listen and share ideas because there were few texts to learn JI: Sure. The thought by any of us who play music Chuck: Well, I played in Promises, Promises with how to improvise. When he arrived at one of the to wonder, Gee, am I playing enough like-fill in the a lot of other jazz musicians, many other jazz musi- colleges to teach, he was astonished to see that name of your hero or predecessor-is preposterous. cians—Joe Newman, Johnny Coles, Frank everything was laid out like scriptures. Who cares? Once you get way past the point of Perowsky, George Barrow, Al Porcino, Dave Tay- learning all the scales and the chords and the licks lor bass trombone, Julian Priester, a bunch of jazz Chuck: Well, that happens to any art that gets and the patterns, and you can let all that go and let musicians in that show. Bobby Thomas was the institutionalized. Once you institutionalize some- it become some reservoir of knowledge and ability original drummer in that show and then after Bob- thing, you change its character. And the easiest and emotion that floats around inside of you, your by was Alphonse Mouzon and Billy Cobham. They things to hold still become the scripture. So chords mind, your soul, so you can immerse yourself in were all drummers in that show. So it was a place and scales that you can study, you can write down the moment to create some sort of meaningful con- people made a living. Then I found my way into on a piece of paper, become the language-where, in versation with whoever you’re with-it would be academic life and became a college professor and fact, they are no more the language than any writ- very limiting to be thinking about whether you’re that saved my psyche actually. It kept me from ten language is language. Written language is al- playing like somebody else? I had heard that when having to play bad music. So I spent a great deal of ways impoverished compared to its spoken version. someone told Hank Mobley that he was sounding my life teaching other people at the same time as I like some other saxophonist, he did everything he was learning myself, learning to write and to make JI: Sure, and you can speak the King’s English and could to not sound like that other player. Eventual- the decisions that are necessary to make the music be the most incredible “Thespian” in the English ly, after enough effort, experience and life, you go the way I wanted it to go. language. But if you have nothing to say, who can’t help but have your personality come out cares? You can always teach the nuts and bolts, the through your music-not unlike your gait when you JI: Talk about the National Jazz Ensemble which I scales and chords and the letters and words and so walk down the street. believe began in 1973. on. But you can’t tell someone to feel something that they are not, or can not. Making music, feeling Chuck: Of course. And in Chuck: That’s right. I started it because I had had it, or feeling some music and not other music, and fact, I am imitating people. I’m imitating Oscar a rehearsal band and I was learning to write. And or being attracted to it as a listener, is directly relat- Pettiford and Red Mitchell. If I played as well as the rehearsal band had different people in it from ed to your heart and soul. Oscar Pettiford and Red Mitchell, I’d be really time to time, but it had all of the best musicians in happy. Oscar Pettiford’s general playing and Red New York. They would all come and play for you. Chuck: We do our best. We write down what we Mitchell’s solos - nobody plays bass solos better For whatever reasons, they found it an attractive think is necessary in order to get the message than Red Mitchell, and a little bit Paul Chambers activity and you could learn a lot because the play- across and then people have to make their contribu- who was a contemporary of mine and whose style I ers were so good. You knew if the music sounded tion to that. They have to interpret it and add hu- liked a lot. And, yeah, we do imitate people. But it bad, it was your fault not theirs. And I tried to fig- man elements that are not there. I use Finale Play- just comes through you. Unless you’re a particular- ure out a way to have a band that would be able to back to check things in my scores, but I never be- ly good mimic, even in my effort to sound like get kind of public subsidy. And I thought, well, lieve that I’m hearing the piece. Oscar Pettiford I can’t do it. In the shortfall, my symphony orchestras do it, and this is how they do personality emerges. it, and it’s not boring. And they can play Mozart JI: It’s a great tool to be able to see if the notes and Bartok on the same evening, so could we play sound right, if you haven’t made a mistake with a JI: Sure. You’re translating it, by nature, through Jelly Roll Morton and Thelonious Monk on the sharp or a flat or there’s something out of whack. whatever talents and limitations that you have same evening? Probably so. I found people who But it doesn’t substitute for real live playing, that’s physically, emotionally, mentally at any given liked to do that. And there were some extraordinary for sure. moment. musicians involved in that—Jimmy Maxwell, a great trumpet player; Tom Harell; Jimmy Knepper, (Continued on page 35)
34 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 and play four measures and hand it back to me and Chuck Israels he would want to trade fours with me on the same Chuck: I have two daughters, one of whom is a bass. Interesting encounters. But it was never any- singer and choral director. She lives here. Wonder- thing but good-natured, always. I wish I had taken ful and a great joy to be around, generous, great, Chuck: Not at all. the trouble to get to know him better. There were great woman. some people I was around that I really could have JI: Could talk about working with Eric Dolphy? known better and didn’t. I worked opposite Monk JI: Are there some things that I haven’t prompted and Mingus for many, many weeks at the Five Spot you about that you would like to promote or other- Chuck: He was a lovely man and everybody liked when it moved over to St. Mark’s place. I was with wise talk about? him, for good reason. He was a generous, sweet- Bobby Timmons’ Trio and we were working oppo- natured guy. Before playing with Bill, I was in site them six weeks at a time, each of those groups, Chuck: Well first of all I’m grateful for the atten- Europe with the Jerome Robbins Ballet Company. so it was three months. I did speak with Charlie, tion, and I recognize that my time with Bill is the It was a job I had been sent on by Joe Benjamin but not with Monk. I was a little afraid of Monk biggest single chunk of my musical career and it’s who didn’t want to do this long tour. And I was in probably unnecessarily so. what people know me for and I don’t mind that, Copenhagen, and I had worked with Eric with I’m proud of it. And the aesthetics of that live with Gunther Schuller, so we knew each other. Eric was JI: Do you remember any specific things that Min- me all the time. They were there before that and giving a concert. I got through my work with the gus said to you? they are the same aesthetics now that they were ballet company early and I went to go hear Eric, then. I guess what I don’t want to do is beat a dead and he simply asked me to come up and play with Chuck: Yeah, I remember he was comparing the horse. I don’t want to be a necrophiliac with that. him. So now I have an association with him that is two drummers that were working with Bobby. One Sometimes the most lucrative jobs I get offered are a result of a rather casual, incidental encounter. His of them was Ben Riley and the other one was also a jobs playing Bill’s music with piano players who bass player had a good bass and Eric Dolphy want- well-known drummer. And Charlie used to talk to are selected by promoters and producers who don’t ed to play with me and it got recorded. Later, to my me about how much he preferred Ben’s playing to know what they’re doing. And really I don’t know surprise, I received a check for that recording. Now the other guy. Charlie really appreciated how musi- any piano player who wants to put themselves in part of my identity as someone who played with cal Ben’s playing was. that position and I wouldn’t put anybody in that Eric Dolphy. But I didn’t have a long relationship position and it’s one of the reasons I have a five- with him. I liked the guy a lot. I’d say he was a JI: You also worked with Gary Burton and Jim horn band. Because my aesthetic is Bill’s aesthetic really, really sweet guy. Hall back on that album, Something’s Coming. and you cannot ask another pianist to do that. How- “I played in Promises, Promises with a lot of other jazz musicians … Joe Newman, Johnny Coles, Frank Perowsky, George Barrow, Al Porcino ... Bobby Thomas was the original drummer in that show and then after Bobby was Alphonse Mouzon and Billy Cobham … So it was a place people made a living. Then I found my way into academic life and became a college professor and that saved my psyche actually. It kept me from having to play bad music.”
What was that like? ever, you can take all of that material and all of JI: Of course, he was associated with Charles Min- those nuances and all of those details and orches- gus who you also had an association with and who Chuck: Well, it was great. In the first place besides trate them and come up with beautiful music for a could be a volatile individual. those two, Larry Bunker who’s one of the best larger ensemble, something Bill never did. I asked musicians I ever worked with was on that record. him about it at one point. I said, “Bill you could be Chuck: Charles was paternal with me - protective, Brilliant, brilliant musician. Wonderful drummer. doing this. You could write an opera, you could never aggressive. I don’t know why, but that was And that was great fun. I also worked for two write a Broadway show, you could write orchestral the relationship we had. I would be playing at weeks when Larry Bunker had to go back to Cali- pieces, you could do all of these things.” And he Bradley, sometimes with Barry Harris or some- fornia when his father in law died and he was play- said, “Chuck it’s all I can do to hold my life togeth- body, and that is where Charlie used to come in ing with Bill’s Trio. We were at the Café au Go Go er.” So I had to do it—not do all of those things, and eat his dinner all the time. He’d eat a steak and I suggested to Bill that he hire Jim Hall for but some of them. That was kind of the materializa- dinner at the back of Bradley’s, right near where those weeks, rather than look for another drummer. tion and realization of aesthetic ideas that were the piano and bass were playing. Bradley’s was a So for a couple of weeks I played with Bill Evans already built into my musical background … so I noisy place. At one point, he stood up and told and Jim Hall and I can’t even remember what it felt very lucky that I was able to participate in that everybody in the place, “Be quiet because Chuck’s was like. I just know it had to have been heaven for music, in the music that Bill [Evans] was making- playing us a bass solo.” So my experience with him me. I can’t remember the music. I wish someone because it was the kind of music I wanted to make was not like the stories that some people tell, it’s had recorded it or I had recorded it. Jim Hall was a and I couldn’t do it by myself.” quite different. He used to come up - on the other great hero of mine. He lived downstairs from my hand when I was playing there. He liked my bass. parents on 12th Street. He used to come after he finished his dinner if we were playing, sometimes he would grab my bass JI: Is your daughter involved in music?
To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 35 CarlaCarla BleyBley JazzJazz Standard,Standard, MarchMarch 1919--2020
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