AR-GW-washingtonPost-121206

Conflict Diamonds In the Spotlight Film '' Explores Longstanding Issue

Charmian Gooch Director and Co-Founder, Tuesday, December 12, 2006; 2:00 PM

Charmian Gooch, director and co-founder of Global Witness, was online Tuesday, Dec. 12, at 2 p.m. ET to discuss the issue of "conflict diamonds" and their links to violence in parts of Africa. The new movie "Blood Diamond," starring Leonardo DiCaprio, is a story of the human cost associated with the mining of diamonds in .

Read the transcript of a discussion with "Blood Diamonds" director Ed Zwick.

Photo Gallery: Sierra Leone's war victims.

The transcript follows.

Editor's note: Charmian Gooch was unable to come online. These questions were answered by her colleague, policy director Alex Yearsley. -Posted 3:40 p.m.

Charmian Gooch is a director and co-founder of Global Witness, a worldwide organization that has pioneered campaigns on the link between the exploitation of natural resources, environmental destruction and human rights abuses. Gooch has worked on a range of campaigns, including leading the worldwide conflict diamond campaign in late 1998 and also worked undercover to expose the role of logging revenue in funding the Khmer Rouge. Global Witness were co-nominees for the 2003 Nobel Peace Prize for the conflict diamond campaign.

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Washington, D.C.: Recently saw Mervis Jewelers owner saying his diamonds were from South Africa, not Western Africa as the movie depicts. Therefore, his diamonds were not so-called blood diamonds. Is it not true that all these diamonds are basically at the expense of people of those native countries. South Africa is still suffering from its year of exploitation of its resources. Granted it was not in civil war as recent, the civil strife cannot be minimalized.

Charmian Gooch: Interesting question - the role of diamonds in South Africa is much misunderstood - during the Apartheid struggle the ANC used diamonds to fund their armed struggle - were these conflict diamonds - the same was true in Namibia with SWAPO who stole diamonds from the De Beers mines, then sold them back to middlemen for De Beers - the money raised was then used to fund their war with the South African govt who occupied South West Africa. The main problem is that all diamonds are mixed together to increase the value of the parcel but also to get rid of the junk that no one wants....changing that is gonna be hard...

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Washington, D.C.: Do you think Canadian diamonds are a good alternative for people who don't want to support the diamond trade in Africa? or does it just add to global demand - and therefore amount to the same thing?

Charmian Gooch: We believe that African diamond producing nations must benefit from their abundant natural resources such as diamonds - promoting Canadian diamonds over African diamonds is not the answer - there are indeed many problems in Canada in relation to land rights issues and environmental concerns so they are not as pure or as clean as everyone would like....what has to happen is for the diamond trade and diamond producing governments to change...

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New York, N.Y.: The diamond industry seems to be pulling out all the stops to confuse the issue. Is there anything consumers can do to send them a message?

Charmian Gooch: Absolutely - consumers have the power - they have the cash and credit cards and are the public face that the industry has to deal with - consumers - be it future wives, girlfriends, husbands, boyfriends whatever - they have to go into stores and demand the the entire industry change - if you want to buy and organic chicken or drink organic milk you need to know that the claims are true...not just some writing on the back of a carton - the same is true of the diamond industry - verifiable guarantees...

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New York, N.Y.: What are your comments about Russell Simmons' recent trip to Africa and his close ties to the DeBeers company?

Charmian Gooch: That depressingly he has been swept up by the diamond industry bandwagon and has effectively become a sell out to them....this side of the diamond equation always amazed us - the hip hop and African American community who so coveted diamonds and were so involved in civil rights issues and their history seemed blind to what was going on in West and Central Africa - regions that were incredibly important to their own history - how could the hip hop moguls and super stars so outrageously worship this gem that was causing so much pain and suffering to Africans on a daily basis - it was only when rap artists took it up in song that they were awoken to what was going on - and thank goodness they did - Nas's song is brilliant and lets hear more of them....Russell's heart is in the right place the problem is his wallet is in the right place too - we've asked him to come to visit , Sierra Leone, and the DRC to see what happens when diamonds don't mean anything positive - were hoping he will say yes and then he can put some of that 25% into projects there. The diamond industry raped West and Central Africa for generations and they have done nothing for them - its payback time - I think we should be talking about Raperations! (ok bad joke) But seriously reparations by many western companies complicit in the looting of Africa is long overdue...

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Washington, D.C.: Are there any gems that you recommend over diamonds in terms of clean ethical issues?

Charmian Gooch: Tough one as all have problems from rubies in Burma to Emeralds in Columbia...whether it is environmental concerns or human rights abuses....there is a great company called Columbia Gem House that only deal in ethically sourced gems - check them out - I think there based in CA or NV - they go to the countries and develop programs for the miners and the families...

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New York, N.Y.: Maybe we should just give up the attraction to diamonds. People can do just fine without them.

Charmian Gooch: The attraction is one of the problems - its worse than drugs - you look at some diamond dealers and they think of nothing else 24/7 - there are many millions of people that are dependent on the diamond industry for a living - from cutters and polishers in India to workers in Africa - what they need though rather than a boycott of diamonds is the value or the diamond to stay in Africa - if rich over indulgent consumers in the west want to spend their money on diamonds we should let them - but the money should stay where the rocks were found - why is that a diamond sold for $15 dollars in Sierra Leone is sold for over $5000 in New York.....

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Chicago, Ill.: Are there still "blood diamonds" on the market?

Charmian Gooch: Fraid so - the Ivory Coast has them and also in the Eastern part of the DRC...it ain't exactly a pretty picture in Angola at the moment either..

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Reston, Va.: What I don't get is the mindlessness of Americans who think they -have- to buy a diamond - who the heck wants a diamond engagement ring, anyway? It's just playing into marketing strategies and a global monopoly!! I'm a woman, and I buy my own jewelry - you get more for your money with the other precious and semi-precious stones. Who wants to look like everyone else? Charmian Gooch: You have to thank the diamond information center for that and Hollywood! The diamond industry don't spend over $200 million a year in advertising for nothing!

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Rockville, Md.: I have a more direct question along the lines of the Mervis jeweler question. If I feel comfortable purchasing a diamond mined in SA or Botswana can I do that with certainty?

I recall reading a Wall St Journal article that essentially stated that presently, one cannot determine a diamond's origin by analyzing the stone. Therefore, to be comfortable that one is not purchasing a diamond that could benefit al Qaeda or the Sierra Leone butchers, a person has to be comfortable with the chain of transfer from the mine to the store. Is there a way to do that? thanks

Charmian Gooch: Very important question - yes you can but it depends whether the diamond industry will do so...they are worried about other issues relating to taxation and profit.....take De Beers - it has mines in Tanzania, South Africa, Botswana, Namibia and it buys diamonds on contract from Russia and Canada - it mixes all the diamonds together in London (but this will soon move to Botswana) where they are then put into the different assortments that it decides need to be sold (nothing about consumer demand believe me!) The diamonds are then distributed to its 'sightholders' who then either manufacture or sell them to other manufacturers. All of these diamonds are covered by the Kimberley Process certificate - the problem is these other dealers and manufacturers buy from other dealers and mix those diamonds together so you get a real mess....can you tell a single rough stones country of origin - not a moment but some claim you can...

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Alexandria, Va.: I was very moved by the movie, and feel uncomfortable wearing my diamond jewelry now -- in fact, all jewelry all of a sudden seems less valuable to me. What more can people (without many financial resources) do?

Charmian Gooch: It is a very moving and graphic film and was excellently filmed by Ed Zwick - his research was epic and they had some amazing Sierra Leonian consultants on it - the best thing you can do to prevent resources funding conflict is by putting pressure on the companies that buy the resources and the governments that should be regulating it - for example the World Bank are about to open up the forests in the DRC to commercial logging - you can bet that there will be US and European logging firms queuing up for a piece of the action - look out for groups like Global Witness that work on these issues - we have newsletters alerting the public on how to take action against companies involved in this trade...but also ask the companies difficult questions - that is where the pressure for change comes from - if your going to buy some new garden furniture make sure that the company can prove that it is certified and they know personally where it came from... ______

Arlington, Va.: Please explain the $15 - $5,000 transformation -- is it really that cheap in Africa?

Charmian Gooch: and worse! I've sat in diamond mines in Sierra Leone and Angola where the diamond sells for that - the problems are many and are mainly ones of education - the diamond miners simply don't know how much they are worth - you have a middle layer of 'supporters' who financially support the diggers with equipment and food - at the end of the month they total how much money they have spent on them and see that that roughly equals what they think the diamonds are worth....and hence they are kept in their cycle of poverty....Sierra Leone used to be a net exporter of foodstuffs until the diamond insanity raged...it can do that again..

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Harrisburg, Pa.: Are there any diamonds you would recommend as fine to purchase? If so, how does one learn that these are the proper diamonds to purchase?

Charmian Gooch: That is a tough one - as an independent organization we cant promote or recommend any particular diamond company....however an easy way around it is to purchase antique jewellery...remember as soon as you buy a new diamond as soon as you walk out the door you have lost 25% to 50% of its purchase value.....they don't tell you that when you buy it....

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Jackson Heights, N.Y.: Are their other resource issues in Africa besides diamonds?

Charmian Gooch: yes oh yes oh yes...many and the west and now the east are grabbing them all - timber, gold, oil, coltan, copper, humans, fish, tantalum, uranium, cotton, cocoa - you name it they have it and it has caused them nothing but misery and suffering as we in the west compete for these resources and the corrupt rulers fight over the spoils....there is something called the Natural Resource Curse - the richer you are in resources the more unstable and poor you are as a country...

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San Francisco, Calif.: Is the Kimberely process working? How can it become much more effective?

Charmian Gooch: Yes it is working - but not as well as we would like - there are nearly 70 countries involved which is no mean feat - the problems that remain are easy to solve if the governments and industry can be bothered to do so - that means time and money....something that is in short supply....the governments need to police the system more effectively, they need to inspect diamond shipments, they need to put 'internal controls' in place in the alluvial diamond areas..for some good info on this have a look at our web site www.globalwitness.org also Partnership Africa Canada who have done a lot of work on the Kimberley process have published widely on the problems and solutions

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D.C.: For a while, De Beers was not allowed to sell in the states -- and it recently opened up a huge boutique in NYC. Does that mean the company paid for its penalty? Was the penalty harsh enough?

Charmian Gooch: De Beers have had a few legal issues in the US - one being in relation to alleged price fixing over industrial diamonds with GE - they settled that case for around $10 million I believe - there was another case in NY - a large class action lawsuit that they settled for around $100 million - the reason for that was for artificially fixing the price of diamonds....there might be more on the way too....Collectively the diamond industry have yet to pay for what happened in Africa from the late 1980s to early 2000 and in some places is still going...... if the diamond industry paid just 1% a year on its profits into a fund for Africa that would go a long way to alleviate a lot of the poverty and misery that diamonds have caused...would the Oppenheimer family that have made so much from diamonds and other African resources donate part of their $4 billion empire....I doubt it....

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New York, N.Y.:"but the money should stay where the rocks were found - why is that a diamond sold for $15 dollars in Sierra Leone is sold for over $5000 in New York."

That is probably more an anti-trust issue than anything. They don't call it a cartel for nothing.

Also, your argument could be applied to almost anything. I'm sure farmers don't get most of the value of crops, and I'm sure the same is true of textile workers.

Perhaps the real problem is not that Africa is getting a disproportionately low part of the spoils, but maybe the problem is that the price of these goods are vastly over inflated.

Charmian Gooch: absolutely it can be applied to anything and there are entities trying to change that particularly as it applies to coffee etc - however the disparities with diamonds are some of the biggest and most disgusting to stomach in terms of taking the rough diamond and the poverty that surrounds it in Africa then seeing how it is promoted as the ultimate symbol of love...

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Fairfax, Va.: Has there been any public debate within the U.S. Government (Congress or the White House) over this "blood diamond" issue? Charmian Gooch: yes quite a bit - there was even a Conflict Diamond coordinator at the State Dept - the USG took quite a major role in the negotiations - slowing them up as usual at key points to ensure that it wasn't affected in other areas - especially concerning the WTO - the Congress were great too and Congressman Tony Hall introduced legislation called the Clean Diamond Trade Act - the question is oversight....

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Washington, D.C.: Thank you for this chat,

Africa is a continent rich of natural resources. I am of the mind that as long as the people of these of these countries act as pawns of their brutal dictatorships they will continue to be exploited. The tribes have to stop killing each other, and countries have to invest in their infrastructure rather then put there money in the U.S. We can thank Europe for the current map of Africa, but what can I, as a normal citizen do? When people, in the case the citizens of these nations, become resigned to being ruled and brutalized .it is the major crux of the problem. Stand up for yourself.

Where am I wrong?

Thanks

Charmian Gooch: What you have to keep in mind is how did those dictators get to where they are....who in the west funded, trained, armed them - I don't know whether you have been living in abject poverty for 20 years in a shanty town in Luanda with no food, no electricity, no water, no clothes etc - simply surviving is a miracle and then you want the population who have been brutalised for over 30 years to rise up against a well fed, paid and armed police and militia - I've seen it happen and its truly depressing - in Angola the state oil company Sonangol bulldozed an entire city of over 50,000 people to make way for office blocks for the oil companies - people resisted and were shot....they stood up for themselves ok whilst the west did nothing...

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Moab, Utah: Many years ago there was a Frontline program that basically said that DeBeers holds a monopoly on diamonds controlling 90% of the market - which is why they are not allowed to operate in the U.S.

It also said that there is no shortage of small diamonds (large ones of course are rare.) They use diamonds on the tips of saws to make them more durable. They are on every continent in the world. (Find your own in Murfreesboro, Arkansas!) The reason that even small ones are so expensive is because of the DeBeers monopoly.

It doesn't look like anything has changed in the 15 years since the documentary. Charmian Gooch: Not much - although De Beers probably control only about 40% of the worlds supply now....diamonds are not rare but supply is drying up - even still they will artificially maintain the price of diamonds...

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Austin, Tex.: I read recently that Nelson Mandela is very close to the De Beers company and even opposed the Kimberley process. What are the facts here?

Charmian Gooch: he is very close to De Beers and De Beers fund his organisation - Mandela did not oppose the Kimberley Process - like Russell Simmons he was used by De Beers as a PR spokesman to try and scare off governments and NGOs from working on this issue....they even tried to get him to scare off Warners....

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Arlington, Va.: Do you think big Hollywood films like Blood Diamond are useful in creating social change - or do they trivialize real concerns?

Charmian Gooch: when they are done well as is the case with this one then they work - if they are cheap and shabby then they can have the opposite effect - however this is a shocking and real portrayal of the violence in Sierra Leone - the involvement of the diamond trade could have been a lot more as they were directly involved in funding the conflicts in Angola, Sierra Leone, Liberia, the DRC....in many ways they got off light....I think this movie will have a significant impact...

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Sterling, Va.: Submitting early because of work. I am excited that the recent "Blood Diamond" movie has pushed this particular issue to the forefront of the public mind. I have been following the plight of child soldiers in Africa for the past several years and, of course, blood diamonds are a major factor in their situation. I have a question regarding the economics of this situation: if major jewelers are 99.8% free of blood diamonds (as they having been telling us rather loudly over the past few weeks) then what is the future fate of blood diamonds? I can't imagine they are going to become completely useless to the rebels as currency. If they do, however, I fear this won't stop the different guerilla groups from fighting: what do you think the rebel groups will turn to next as currency in the future? Thank you so much for taking my question and best of luck in your organization's endeavors.

Charmian Gooch: Thanks for the support - the 99.8% figure ain't exactly accurate and has been hijacked as ever by the diamond industry to try show that the situation is ok - that figure came from a statement of the Kimberley Process when Canada was chair - they looked at the annual figures provided by govts on import and export and some production and stated that this was the figure - it is 100% inaccurate - however the percentage of conflict diamonds now is small - thank god - mainly due to the wars ending.....other resources they have moved to already and have used for a while is timber, gold, coltan, copper etc

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Broad Run, Va.: Hi,

I am a total novice to the issue of blood diamonds and, in fact, diamonds in general.

I have noticed that a local diamond merchant, Mervis, has taken a proactive public relations approach on this issue in their radio commercials. They state that they have a zero-tolerance policy for conflict diamonds. Also, since they control their South African pipeline the entire way ("From factory to finger", in their words), they can assure you that their diamonds are not conflict diamonds.

Is this true, or is it just good advertising copy? Can any jeweler that does not control their entire pipeline legitimately provide this assurance?

Thanks,

Bill

Charmian Gooch: If Mervis can do this then great - however they are going to have to prove it! Just saying so ain't good enough...jewellers can demand from their suppliers that they tell them where they purchase their diamonds - if they refuse then you know they are hiding something...

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Fort Bragg, Calif.: Thanks for your work!

How can people be encouraged to buy cubic zirconia? We'd still have all the "bling" without people mining and dying so we can have something sparkly to show off?

My "diamonds" are beautifully cut, no one without a jeweler's eye can detect if they're "real" and there's no insurance/safe deposit hassle! Best of all, I enjoy my "diamonds" knowing there's no suffering attached.

Charmian Gooch: you might have a point there....

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San Antonio, Tex.: Do you think director Zwick has done a good job presenting the issues of conflict diamonds through his film "Blood Diamond"? At the end of the film there is verbiage that says that Sierra Leone is at peace? Is this true? Has the blood diamond issue just moved further south to the Ivory Coast or to other African countries? Is Liberia still involved? Too, was the Col. Coatzee character in the film supposed to represent the mercenary force Executive Outcomes?

Charmian Gooch: He's done a brilliant job on this film...historically accurate and visually brilliant....a number of Sierra Leonian friends of mine have seen it and say how real it is...Sierra Leone at peace - yes but for how long...many of the problems remain...corruption being the main one....yes blood diamonds have moved to Cote D'Ivoire but not on the same scale as Sierra Leone or Angola....Liberia is involved in a different way...they are not yet members of the Kimberley Process and so diamonds mined in Liberia now go the other way - to Sierra Leone!

EO - yes indeed - who else could it have been! The actor playing Coatzee I believe even had a relation in EO so he was able to get first hand advice....half of EO probably advised on it too...

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Charmian Gooch: Thanks for all the questions - very interesting and well thought out.

I think the film is going to raise awareness and put much needed pressure on the diamond industry and governments - and that's were the consumer comes in - they must be educated and encouraged to do so.

Diamonds must benefit those countries in Africa that have them - not the companies in the West that so easily exploit them - governments must be held to account for the revenues they receive from natural resources - they must be transparent.

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