LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 May 2014 10725 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Friday, 9 May 2014 The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG DR THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P. 10726 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 May 2014 THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, B.B.S., M.H. PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P., Ph.D., R.N. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 May 2014 10727 THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN DR THE HONOURABLE KENNETH CHAN KA-LOK THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, J.P. 10728 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 May 2014 DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. THE HONOURABLE TANG KA-PIU DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHUNG SHU-KUN, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN MEMBERS ABSENT: DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 May 2014 10729 PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: DR THE HONOURABLE KO WING-MAN, B.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH THE HONOURABLE WONG KAM-SING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT MR JAMES HENRY LAU JR., J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MR ANDY LAU KWOK-CHEONG, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MISS FLORA TAI YIN-PING, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MRS PERCY MA, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 10730 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 May 2014 BILLS Committee Stage CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Good morning, Members. Council now resumes. Committee will now continue with the second joint debate in respect of the Appropriation Bill 2014. APPROPRIATION BILL 2014 CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any Member wish to speak? MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Chairman, there are only a few Members in the Chamber now. I would like to wait for more Members returning to the Chamber before I speak. I request a headcount. CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber. (After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber) CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any Member wish to speak? MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Good morning, Chairman and Members. Good morning, Directors of Bureaux. As this Council is still in the second joint debate today and has yet proceeded to the third joint debate concerning food safety and health, I would like to continue speaking on "Head 142 ― Government Secretariat: Offices of the Chief Secretary for Administration and the Financial Secretary". I have proposed five amendments to head 142, that is, Amendment Nos 716, 723, 734, 739 and 754. I would like to discuss them altogether. Let me first briefly talk about each of the amendments. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 May 2014 10731 Amendment No 716 seeks to resolve that head 142 be reduced by $105,003,000 in respect of subhead 000. That is to reduce the annual estimated operating expenses of the Central Policy Unit (CPU) to $1,000. As I mentioned yesterday, the discrepancy with Dr Helena WONG's amendment is $1,000. Amendment No 723 seeks to reduce an amount approximately equivalent to the CPU's annual estimated expenditure for conducting research projects. In other words, one is targeted on the CPU as a whole, while the other is on research projects only. Amendment No 734 seeks to reduce an amount approximately equivalent to the annual estimated expenditure for the emoluments of the Head of the CPU, that is, to cut the salary of Mr SHIU Sin-por. The remaining two are Amendment Nos 739 and 754. Amendment No 739 seeks to reduce an amount approximately equivalent to the annual estimated expenditure for the interim gratuity paid to the Head of the CPU. I already pointed out the problems concerning interim gratuity in my speech yesterday. As for the last amendment, that is, Amendment No 754, it seeks to reduce an amount approximately equivalent to the annual estimated expenditure for the allowances payable to the Head of the CPU. As I mentioned yesterday, the CPU is under the Administration Wing of the Chief Secretary for Administration's Office (CSO), that is, Programme (3) of head 142, according to the Government's classification of expenditure heads. Without an inquisitive mind, Members may not be able to locate it. I would first like to talk about the problems concerning interim gratuity. When we examined the expenditure estimates for 2013-2014 last year, some Members already noted the surge in expenditure on the emoluments of the Head of the CPU from $2,923,000 in 2008-2009 to $4,967,000 in 2012-2013, when discussing the expenses of the CPU. The amount covered end-of-contract gratuity and represented an increase of over 60%. Members were shocked at noting the figures at that time, questioning why the emoluments had risen so significantly in just a couple of years. They also wondered how the emoluments of the head of the CPU were determined. At that time, the Deputy Head of the CPU could only explain that the salary level was endorsed by the Finance Committee when the CPU was formed in 1989 and the salary of the post was pegged to Point 8 of the Directorate Pay Scale. When the Director of Administration added subsequently that there was an end-of-contract gratuity, Members seemed like waking up to the existence of such gratuity. 10732 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 May 2014 Apart from the end-of-contract gratuity, my amendment particularly focuses on the "tricky" interim gratuity. In 2010-2011, the Head of the CPU was employed under a five-year contract and entitled to an interim gratuity. The end-of-contract gratuity was paid in 2012-2013. Therefore, his remuneration in 2010-2011 and 2012-2013 appeared to be higher than that of the other financial years. At that time, even the Deputy Head of the CPU himself could not immediately give a clear account to Members. Why were such arrangements not clearly spelt out in the Budget? Why is it often the case that the Government does not disclose information until Members raise questions and information is disclosed bit by bit like "squeezing a tube of toothpaste"? The public already have serious doubts about the transparency of the CPU. Why did the Government not make public the relevant contracts and financial details in advance with foresight? This is also an area for which the CPU has been criticized. I would not talk about the research projects right now, as I will discuss whether they should be made public later. However, the Government did not make clear the structures and terms of employment, let alone giving an account to the public. It only disclosed information bit by bit when questioned by the Finance Committee.