• VELV 1 4 STATE Government LIBRARY of South Australia

STATE LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA J. D. SOMERVILLE ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION

OH 1/10

Full transcript of an interview with

A. E. RETALLACK

on 4 SEPTEMBER 1985

by Beth Robertson for 'SA SPEAKS': AN ORAL HISTORY OF LIFE IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA BEFORE 1930

Recording available on cassette

Access for research: Unrestricted

Right to photocopy: Copies may be made for research and study

Right to quote or publish: Publication only with written permission from the State Library ATB/10/129-10i Mr A.E. RETALLACK ii 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

TABLE OF CONTENTS

• Page

Preface 111

Notes to the Transcript iv

Family and Background 1 Welsh and Cornish mining origins Forebears' circuitous migration to Moonta

Childhood 8 Family's move to Adelaide Life on a two acre block at Richmond Compulsory military training

Schooling 29 Impact of father's death

Work 32 Office boy Starting with the Post Office Department as Junior Technician Excitement of technological advances of the era Qualification as Engineer

Courtship and Marriage 44

Index 49

Collateral Material in File 8510 includes: Photographs (P) 8510A-D

Cover Illustration Bert Retallack at the Ascot Exchange, Melbourne where he was sent in 1925 to learn about the automatic exchange preparatory to the South Australian Post Office Department adopting the system. P8510D ATB/10/129-10i Mr A.E. RETALLACK iii 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

PREFACE

Albert Retallack, born in Boulder City, Kalgoorlie, Western Australia in 1903, came from mining stock. His father's people had come from Cornwall to the Burra; his mother's from Wales via Pennsylvania to Castlemaine. Bert's parents had made their separate ways to Kalgoorlie in the 1890s, and his father and uncles had sojourns in Johannesburg at the turn of the century. However, in Bert's childhood the family moved, via Moonta, on to a two acre block at Richmond where his father became a carrier. When his father died in 1918 Bert, the oldest of three children, had to leave the Adelaide Technical Highschool to help support the family. He embarked upon a career in the Post Office, Telephone and Telegraph Department, rising from a Junior Technician in training to a professional Engineer by 1930 and retiring as Superintending Engineer of Planning in 1969. Mr Retallack married in 1928 and had three children.

Mr Retallack was 82 years of age at the time of the interview.

Mr Retallack is hesitant in the early stages of the interview but warms to the task. He has researched his family history and has vivid memories of life on the block in Richmond and his early working days. The record levels are good although there is an occasional faint mechanical noise. There is a good deal of extraneous noise - birdsong, noise from other rooms of the house, traffic and some interruptions to the recording - but this does not interfere unduly with the recording.

The interview was recorded in one session and is three hours in length.

'S.A. Speaks: An Oral History of Life in South Australia before 1930' was a Jubilee 150 project conducted under the auspices of the History Trust of South Australia for two years and two months ending December 1986. The Interviewees are broadly representative of the population of South Australia as it was in the first three decades of the twentieth century. Selection of Interviewees was guided by a Sex and Occupation Sample calculated from the 1921 Census and Inter- viewees were suggested, in the main, by people who responded to 'S.A. Speaks' publicity. Each interview was preceded by an unrecorded preliminary interview during which details about the Interviewee's family history and life story were sought to help develop a framework for the interview.

As stated in the Conditions of Use for Tape Recordings and Transcripts adopted for the 'S.A. Speaks' project: 'The copyright in the item(s) [viz, the tapes and transcripts of Interview 8510] and all the rights which normally accompany copyright including the right to grant or withhold access to them, conditionally or unconditionally, to publish, reproduce or broadcast them, belongs in the first instance to the History Trust of South Australia for the purposes of the 'S.A. Speaks' project and after the cessation of that project to the Libraries Board of South Australia for the purposes of the Mortlock Library of South Australiana.' ATB/10/129-10i Mr A.E. RETALLACK iv 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

NOTES TO THE TRANSCRIPT

Readers of this oral history transcript should bear in mind that it is a record of the spoken word. It was the policy of the Transcriptionist, Chris Gradolf, and the Interviewer, as editor, to produce a transcript that is, so far as possible, a verbatim transcript that preserves the Interviewee's manner of speaking and the informal, conversational style of the interview. Certain conventions of trans- cription have been applied (i.e. the omission of meaningless noises, redundant false starts and a percentage of the Interviewee's crutch words). Also, each Interviewee was given the opportunity to read the transcript of their interview after it had been proofread by the Interviewer. The Interviewee's suggested alterations have been incorporated in the text (see below). On the whole, however, the document can be regarded as a raw transcript.

Researchers using the original tape recording of this interview are cautioned to check this transcript for corrections, additions or deletions which have been made by the Interviewer or the Interviewee but which will not occur on the tapes. Minor discrepancies of grammar and sentence structure made in the interest of readability can be ignored but significant changes such as deletions of information or correction of fact should be, respectively, duplicated or acknowledged when the tape recorded version of this interview is used for broadcast or publication on cassettes.

Abbreviations

The Interviewee, Mr A.E. Retallack, is referred to by the initials AR in all editorial insertions in the transcript.

Punctuation

Square brackets [I indicate material in the transcript that does not occur on the original tape recording.

The Interviewee's initials after a word, phrase or sentence in square brackets, i.e. [word or phrase AR] indicates that the Interviewee made this par- ticular insertion or correction. All uninitialled parentheses were made by the Interviewer.

An series of dots, indicates an untranscribable word or phrase.

Sentences that were left unfinished in the normal manner of conversation are shown ending in three dashes, - -

Spelling

Wherever possible the spelling of proper names and unusual terms has been verified. Where uncertainty remains the word has been marked with a cross in the right hand margin of the Interview Log and Data Sheet which can be consulted in the Interview File.

Typeface

The Interviewer's questions are shown in bold print. ATB/10/129-10 MrA.E.RETALLACK 1. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

'S.A. Speaks: An Oral History of Life in South Australia Before 1930' Beth Robertson interviewing Mr A.E. Retallack on 4 September 1985

TAPE A SIDE 1

If we could just start with you telling me your full name.

Yes, well, I'm Albert Ernest Retallack.

And have you been known as Albert?

No, I've only been called Albert on a very few occasions and that was mainly the boys at school, but I've generally been known as - always been known as - Bert. I didn't like the name Albert anyway.

Can you tell me the date of your birth?

Yes, it's the twenty-third of July nineteen hundred and three and I was born in Boulder City as it is called, which is a suburb - well the mining suburb - of Kalgoorlie.

Can you tell me about your parents coming to the west?

Yes, well, I would have liked to have had more details of how and when they went to the west, but unfortunately I didn't ask enough questions at the time. But my father and two of his brothers went from their home in Moonta to Kalgoorlie. It must have been in about the 1896 or thereabouts, and the three of them worked in the 'Kalgoorlie gold fields and then the three of them went to South Africa to the Johannesburg gold mines and they worked there for two or three years. Then the Boer War set in and they came home - to Kalgoorlie that is.

About that time my mother, who was born in Victoria in a little township called Gunbower near the River Murray, had gone over to Western Australia to her married sister - she was then about twenty I suppose - and somehow or other, I'm not too clear how, but she finished up in Kalgoorlie. My father and his two brothers being in Kalgoorlie and their sister Julia had come across from Moonta to Kalgoorlie also, and my mother met Julia somehow or other and became friendly with her and the two of them set up a tearooms in Boulder. They had a little select clientele from what I can remember - from what I have heard of - and through my mother through meeting Julia, met my father and they were married in Boulder in nineteen hundred and two. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 2. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Can we perhaps find out a little bit more information about your parents. What was your father's name?

His name was Albert Ernest, the same as mine.

Do you know the date of his birth?

Yes, he was born on June the eighteenth - - Oh, it would've been about 1878 or thereabouts.

1876.

1876, sorry.

And where had he been born?

He was born in Moonta with all of his brothers and sisters. They were all born in Moonta.

And how many brothers and sisters did he have?

Well I think there was about thirteen actually born, but several them died in early childhood. And of the boys, only four grew to adulthood - my father and the two brothers that I mentioned there - and the last child born, who was much younger than them all. There were actually four adult men. And about the same number of girls survived.

What were the names of the brothers that he went west with?

Well his elder brother was Richard John and the other brother, who was younger than my father, was James - James Henry I think.

And the sister over there was - - -?

Was Julia.

What was your mother's full name?

Her full name was Clara Hancock.

Do you know the date of her birth?

Yes, it was September the sixth, 1880.

And, as you say, she was born in Victoria. And how many brothers and sisters did she have?

Well, there's a lot of them. [break in recording while AR gets documents] Yes, there were nine sisters - nine girls, I mean, in the family, including my mother - and four brothers. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 3. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Your father, of course, was working as a miner as a young man. Did he have any other work that you know of?

I believe that as a first job at Moonta, I think he was employed in the bank. He probably was a messenger for a short period, but I'm not very clear about that. That probably is right, but that part of the time is a little bit vague as far as - - I haven't got much detail of that.

Do you know anything about his education?

My father's?

Yes.

Yes, he would've attended the Moonta Mines school, which was a big school, and I remember them saying that they had to pay so much - they had to pay a fee to attend in those days. Because my father was sent along earlier than he normally would have been to make up a number that reduced the fee. If you had more than a certain number, the fee for each one was somewhat reduced.

More than a certain number from each family do you mean?

Yes, in one family. If, say, there was four of them there, they would get perhaps - have to pay a lower fee than if there were three, that sort of thing. So he went to the Moonta Mines school, which I did for a year or so later on.

Do you know about your mother's schooling?

No, not very much really. She would have gone to, I presume, the Gunbower school, or one of the schools in the neighbourhood. There was no high school or anything like that.

Can you tell me about your brothers and sisters in the family?

My brothers and sisters? Yes. I have a sister called Nilma - Nilma Gwenllian - and she was born in Moonta. And I have a brother Richard John who was born in Adelaide. They're both still alive.

What were the years of their birth?

Richard John was born in the first of June nineteen hundred and thirteen and my sister Nilma was born on the seventh of November nineteen hundred and nine.

Where does the influence of her name come from?

Oh, it comes from the Welsh side of the family - my mother's father. My mother's father's father came from Wales and that - - -. So on my mother's ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 4. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

side the father was - the male side was Welsh - and the female side was Lancashire - Nottingham.

Let's talk about your grandparents. Perhaps we could start with your mother's parents. Can you tell me their names?

Yes, well, Grandmother's name was Nancy Firth - that's her maiden name - and my grandfather was - he was William, William Hancock.

And we were talking the other day about their dates of birth and so on, but can you tell me where they came from?

This is my grandparents?

Yes.

My grandmother, Nancy Firth, came from a place called Ashton-under-Lime near Manchester in Lancashire, and my grandfather - yes he came from Wales, from Monmouthshire, I think it is, in Wales. My grandfather came to Australia via a circuitous route. His father went from Wales to Pennsylvania in the United States in rather peculiar circumstances. Shall I carry on with this?

Yes.

He had been, what do they call it? Put into the Army through the press gang. He'd been press ganged into the Army in the Napoleonic Wars and served over in Portugal and Spain for some time and then he bought himself out for twenty pounds and went back to Wales, working in the mines there. And the story goes that one night after leaving work they went to the tap room, as they called it, at the local hotel, for a drink and another press gang came in to collar them and they fought back. According to the story he left one of them at least for dead. Whether he was killed or not I don't know, but - Grandfather's father this is - hotfooted it up to Liverpool and caught a ship to Pennsylvania. (laughs) Then later on he sent for his family to come out, and of course my grandfather was one of those in the family.

Well, they lived in Pennsylvania for - I don't know how long, but the ori- ginal - it'd be my great grandfather I suppose - was killed in a mine accident over there. And the Victorian goldfields, that opened up - you know, the gold they found in Ballarat and Castle maine - and at least two of the brothers came out from Pennsylvania and settled around about Castelemaine. So that's on the male side.

On my grandmother's side, I think, there again, Grandmother's father came out on his own and got established and sent for the rest of the family. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 5. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

And they also finished up round about Castlemaine. They somehow or other met there and they were married in Castlemaine and lived there for a few years because a lot of the family were born in Castlemaine - my mother's sisters and brothers. But then Grandfather bought a property up near Gun- bower near the Murray and they shifted there and they remained there - my grandmother and grandfather - until they died. One of the sons carried on the farm after that too.

Did you know them?

Oh yes. I went over with my mother to Gunbower on one, perhaps two, occasions - I'm a bit hazy about it. But I certainly did know my grandmother and grandfather. At the time that I knew him my grandfather was practically blind, but I remember he could wander round and saw wood for the fires, you know. I remember he had a couple of trestles for that on the ground and then put a log across it and he had a big cross-cut saw and he could do this although he was blind. Grandmother, Nancy, she was a lovely woman. I didn't see much of her, unfortunately, living hundreds of miles away, but she did come over to our home in Richmond on one occasion after my dad died. And as for the brothers and sisters, yes, I met most of them. As a matter of fact one of them is still alive. The youngest girl is still alive - she'd about eighty six or seven, I think - in Victoria, Melbourne.

So you had an aunt not much older than you.

That's right, yes - not much older than me. There was a big range of ages. Whether that's relevant or not, but there was a lot of them.

You've obviously taken in quite a lot of the family history on that side. Were you told it as a child or how did you come to learn it?

Well, a lot of the information I just told you was given to me by one of my mother's brothers who had taken the trouble to write it down too, so I've got that sort of information from my uncle - my mother's brother.

Did your grandparents talk at all about their past as you remember?

I don't recall having much to say to Grandfather. He's a bit of a dim figure, really. I suppose he was blind and pretty old. But I always remember Grandma with affection. She was a lovable sort of a woman, little Nancy.

Let's talk about your grandparents on your father's side now. What were their names?

On my father's side, my grandfather was Richard John and my grandmother was Eliza - Eliza Rosewall was her maiden name. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 6. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

And where had they come from?

Well they'd both come from Cornwall. My grandfather came from a place called St Agnes in northern Cornwall and my grandmother came from Redruth, a little town not far away from there, also in north Cornwall.

Did they emigrate as young man and woman?

No, they came separately. My grandmother came out much earlier than my grandfather. My grandmother, or her parents, migrated - arrived out here in 1847. That's the Rosewall family. And my grandfather came out in 1857, ten years afterwards.

And did he come with his family?

No, he came on his own and I haven't been able to find out a great deal about him and why, but I did go back to Cornwall some years ago and enquired from the Archeivist in Truro in Cornwall. And I was able to find his parents - details of his parents, but nothing definite about any brothers or sisters. I often wondered whether he had brothers or sisters, you know, and what happened to them, but I've never been able to know really whether he did have any or not. But his parents were called - - -. Well, his father was called Charles Retallack and he married a Julia Nettle in 1835 in the parish of St Agnes, Cornwall. So I can only assume that he migrated from Cornwall, being a young miner of course - he was only about twenty. Things were pretty bad in the mining industry there - copper and tin mines in Cornwall - and I suppose work was hard to get. I suppose he heard of the newly-found copper mines in the Burra and came out here.

What were the Rosewall's family's line of work?

Much the same. I haven't got much information, but I do know that they were in the mining activity the same, because they all went to Burra when they landed here and worked at Burra in the mines there - in the copper mines there. Then my grandfather met grandmother in Burra and they were married there. I think then they shifted to Moonta when the copper mines were discovered there - the copper was discovered in Moonta - and they trans- ferred to Moonta before any of their family were born and Grandfather worked in the Moonta copper mine. They remained there for the rest of their lives.

You would have known both of them. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 7. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Yes, I knew both of them because when my father came back from Johannes- burg the second time - - -. Perhaps we hadn't mentioned this before.

No. Let's talk about that time. We got up to the stage where your parents had married, was it, in 1902?

Yes 1902. Yes, well, the Boer War had finished and they decided they'd go back. My father had married my mother and she was pregnant. Anyway they went back to Johannesburg.

By they, you mean your - -

My father and his two brothers, yes, the three of them in that picture [refers to photograph, see copy on Mel And they were over there for about three years. It was a pretty profitable time. They did very well over there con- tracting in the - as mining contractors there. There's an extract from a Johannesburg paper talking about them actually. Anyhow they came back then about nineteen hundred and six, I suppose it was. I was almost three years old and it was the first time I saw my father.

Do you remember that time?

No, I can't honestly say I remember it. I don't really know much about it - about how he came back. I think we must have left from Albany because of frequent references to Albany in my younger days, so I think that we probably went from Kalgoorlie down to Albany and sailed back here by ship, because there was no other way of going there in those days.

Do you remember anything about your time in the west or were you too young?

No, I can't honestly say I can remember anything about it. I would have liked to have known a bit more about it. I would've liked to have been able to, now, to have asked my parents, or my mother - because my father died so long ago - about it. For instance, how they got from Perth to Kalgoorlie at that time, because there wasn't a train, and how, if they came home from Albany, how they got from Kalgoorlie to Albany, because there certainly wasn't a train - there isn't one now. There must have been some horse-drawn coach or some- thing or other.

Do you know how your mother managed while your father was away?

No I don't really. I don't - - I think she managed quite well. Of course she left the shop - you know, the restaurant I was talking about - when she got married, so that - - -. She may have gone back to Perth where her sister was living of course. She may have stayed there, I don't know. That's, sort of, never sort of discussed in detail and never sort of realised - - -. It could've been interesting, but that's one of those things. ATB/10/129-I Mr A.E. RETALLACK 8. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

So you returned to Moonta?

We returned to Moonta, yes. My mother, of course, came there for the first time - being Victoria to Western Australia to Moonta. Yes, well then my father built a house alongside his parents' home in Moonta mines, evidently with the intention of stopping there indefinitely. I often wonder why he built it because the mines were, you know, on the way out at that time, and he was a miner. But I suppose - - -. My grandfather died in nineteen hundred and nine - he lived in the cottage next door. Most of the daughters had shifted from Moonta and one of them, the eldest - they were living in Adelaide - when Grandfather died, Grandmother came down to the city to live with her daughter. So that my father, I suppose, decided to get out as well and he - - -. He did a bit of mining. I think he mined in a mine called Kitty Coola up in the hills beyond Palmer, you know, on the way to Mannum. There is a tourist sort of a thing up there now - camel - - -. They run a few camels and that sort of thing. Sometimes they're down at Glenelg, you know these camels - Kitty Coola. There is just a little tourist area there.

At what stage do you think your father was mining there?

Well it would've been between nineteen hundred and six and about nineteen hundred and ten or there abouts.

So before the family came down to the city.

Yes. There were several years, you know, that they were in Moonta. My father did, as I say, work a little bit at this Kitty Coola mine, and he was also looking for a property - a family property. He went over to Tumby Bay on one occasion and he went up to - looking at a farm property up near Strathal- byn - -

END OF TAPE 1 SIDE A: TAPE 1 SIDE B

However, he didn't get any property there, but he finally decided - he bought a place in Gouger Street in the city, in the west end of Gouger Street. But when they decided to come down to Adelaide to live he sold that and bought this property at Richmond - a two acre property at Richmond - and he lived there until he died in nineteen hundred and eighteen.

Let's go back and talk about what you remember of Moonta.

Yes, well I do remember a bit of Moonta because I did go to the - spent at least one year in the Moonta school. It was a big school and is now turned into a very fine museum - an exceptionally good museum. But it was a huge school really, and very well built. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 9. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Yes, well I recall on one occasion going with my mother - getting up early one morning - because it was advertised that there was going to be a balloon going up - you know, a hot air balloon - somewhere between Moonta Mines and Moonta. They're about a mile apart, sort of. My mother and I went - walked down to this place - and the balloon was there and they were trying to inflate it without success. (laughter) The party didn't go up, so that was a waste of time. So that was one thing I recall. I suppose it was etched into my memory.

Then there was the usual small boy. If he was fortunate he had a billy goat cart - a little cart, you know, knocked up boxes and things, and a billy goat to draw. I don't think I had one but there were some about.

And I can recall a Christmas Eve at Moonta and going in to Moonta and being impressed by the gaiety of it all, you know, on Christmas Eve. There was a band playing on one of the balconies. I remember there was a shop there in which there were two young ladies - one of them became my aunt. Arthur, the youngest son - youngest brother - he married one of these girls called Miss Waters. Waters' the name - oh, Alice - yes, married Alice Waters. They had this shop in the main street in Moonta.

Do you remember the cottage that we have this much more recent photograph of?

You mean the grandparents' cottage?

Is this your grandparents'?

No, this is my father's place he built alongside of my grandparents' cottage. That has disappeared - that's gone.

Do you remember this home?

Yes, well, in a way I suppose I do. I went - - -. We took this photo only about a year or two ago, and we were fortunate to be invited to go in and inspect the place, you know. Quite a big place - a six roomed place. A couple of fireplaces and chimneys, you know.

Was it stone all the way through or did you have an iron lean-to at the back?

No, it was mainly limestone - pretty solidly built though. Then another memory is of the tram - the horse tram - that ran from Moonta Mines into Moonta and through to Moonta Bay. Perhaps that'd be a trip of about three miles I suppose. It was a busy time on New Years' Day and so on - you know, the holidays there would be pretty lively, you know. The trams - going doing there in the tram - and so forth. I remember in the classroom at school and ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 10. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

looking out of the window. I was in a position to see out of the window what appeared to be hills in the distance. Well, I went back this time and had a look at the classroom and what I thought were hills were mine dumps. (laughter)

Then, of course, there was the Methodist Church - the Moonta Mines Methodist Church - and the Sunday School, which I attended as a very young child, I suppose. This was one of the biggest Sunday Schools in the State I think. Very fine old church which is still there.

I have some pictures which I haven't shown you - they'll be here some- where; I'll show them to you directly - photos taken in the garden of my grandfather's home on their Golden Wedding day. And there's one of my father and mother and my sister and myself. That was our family at that time. It was before my brother was born.

That sounds interesting. What do you remember of your grandfather?

Well, not very much. He was an old man. I suppose he was - - Well, he was seventy eight when he died, so I'd only know from, you know, about the late sixties - oh, late seventies - to that time when he was a sick man. He'd been more or less an invalid, I think, for a number of years.

Do you know anything about his illness?

No, not really. I take it it was something concerned with mining. Grand- mother - well, she survived a long - you know, until about 1920s, living with her daughter in the east end of the city there.

What do you remember of her?

Only as a very elderly old lady, you know - more or less immobile. I can only recall her sitting in a chair or this sort of thing. Well, I can't remember anything much about her except that. See, being the mother of how many did I say? - thirteen children - she had a pretty hard life I should imagine.

So did none of your grandparents have much of an influence on your upbringing?

I wouldn't think so, no. I wouldn't think so. I was only there from the age of about three to about six - that's when my grandfather died. From that time onwards, of course, I didn't have much contact with Grandmother, although she lived in the city, but we lived at Richmond. We'd see her occasionally but there'd be no influence that I am aware of.

Well, let's talk about your family coming down to Adelaide. Did your father settle into employment in Adelaide? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 11. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Yes, he did. He worked in Foy & Gibson's when he came down to the city.

What sort of work?

Oh, I don't know, he'd be a store man or something like this I think. Then he left that and set up his own little carrying business with a horse-drawn trolley I think. And he did a lot of Foy Sc Gibson's delivery work and also - and this is in the 1914-18 period - he did a lot of the carrying work for the [YMCA AR]. This is the Mitcham Camp - Mitcham Military Camp. There was a big camp out near Clapham in those days, during the First World War. And he did the carrying for the YMCA. The YMCA ran a canteen, you know, out - service for the troops out there - and he used to do the delivery of foodstuffs and this sort of thing and supplies there. And I also recall going down to the Outer Harbor with him one day - one Saturday - to take stuff down to Outer Harbor to be shipped away. I'm not sure what that was for.

But in this time my father was ailing. He died in 1918 and he had serious kidney troubles - kidney stones. He had kidney stones removed from both kidneys and although he was a robust, strong fellow, before that, he was ailing and in 1918 he went to the Adelaide Hospital. I'm not sure what it was for, whether it was kidney trouble at the time, but he also caught pneumonia and died in 1918. So I was only fifteen years old.

How do you remember your father? What sort of a man was he?

Yes, well my memory's only over short term because he died so early. I was only fifteen and I was only three when I first saw him, so - - -. But he was a nice fellow. He was fairly stern, I think. He had a good bass voice - he sang in the Richmond Baptist Church Choir, he and my mother. They liked singing and we had a piano over at home and they used to sing. It was their form of entertainment in those days. He was a very energetic, enterprising man.

Perhaps a bit restless too?

I think you could say that. (laughter) Yes, well he bought this property at Richmond and on it was a - not a very nice house. It was an entirely wood and iron place and although at the time - in his time - that was nineteen hundred and ten to 1918, that's eight years - in that time he had the old place demolished and a brick and stone house erected in its place. And to do that one of my mother's sister's husbands in Victoria was out of work, and he came across and built the place. My father, having this carrying business, was able to pick up second hand bricks and windows and door frames and whatnots and so forth, and between the lot of them, including me - I had to clean a lot of these bricks (laugh) - we built this house, you see. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 12. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Where was the house at Richmond?

In Grove Avenue, Richmond. Only about a mile across here.

Do you know the number?

About 33 or something. But it was subsequently subdivided into about ten or eleven blocks and in the process we had to donate a road - an access road - us and the next door neighbour which also was a two acre block, and that road was called Retallack Avenue which it is still. The name is up there now.

When was it subdivided?

A little bit after Dad died of course - after 1918. In the early 1920s some time, because Mother gave me one of the blocks and my brother and sister also a block. I sold it and bought this block.

Did you ever build on your block?

No, I didn't. We preferred this area.

Tell me, where did your family live while the old house was demolished and the new one being built?

Oh well, it was partly demolished at a time. Part of it was left, that is - the back part was left intact. And there was a shed out the back in which I slept with my uncle who was doing the building. He and I slept in this shed down the back. Fairly primitive I suppose. So I'm not too clear on how they got on, but they had to have some rooms, you know, to stay in.

Can you describe the house that you remember from your youth?

Yes, the ultimate house was four rooms - four brick rooms - plus two back rooms, timber and galvanised iron. The main passage from the front door, running right through with two rooms on each side. Lead lights up the side of the front door. At the back there was a bathroom and an enclosed back verandah, and then of course in the kitchen, which was one of the wood and iron verandahs - was wood stove. It was mainly the living room. The main four rooms were - - -. Well, there was - one room was a fairly big lounge, sort of - and the three others rooms which at various times were mainly bedrooms.

Did you have running water in the house?

Oh yes. Yes, we had running water in the house, but an outside toilet. And we had no electric light for some time but we had - - -. They used to use kerosene lamps for illumination until my grandmother came over from Victoria and donated the money to have an electric light installed. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 13. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

About what time was that?

It would've been after my father died. It'd be about 1920 I suppose. But around the whole property - two acres - was a boxthorn hedge and this was a task that I had to do. I had to keep this in control. It was an enormous hedge. You know, it'd be as high as the top of that window there and about six feet through in many cases.

Was it well established when you moved in?

Oh yes, it was all there. But I had to cut this jolly boxthorn hedge and I had two road frontages that I had to keep off the footpath and, you know, now and again the Council would be on our backs to cut it back sort of. And that was my job, and it was a really big job. I used to hack this down with a big slasher and also pruning shears, and we used to have to burn. If you look at Grove Avenue now, all built up and that, you can hardly visualise us burning these huge piles of boxthorn out in the road, you know. (laughs) It's just incompre- hensible really.

Which was the other road that you bordered on?

Oh, I forgot what it's called now. It's still there of course. It goes right through easterly from Grove Avenue through to South Road, over what used to be the old North Terrace trainline - you know, Glenelg trainline. I just can't recall the name of it [Barwell Avenue]. But the next street parallel to it further north is Retallack Avenue.

Well, let's talk about the two acre block and how it was used.

Yes, well when we got there it was an established orchard, or at least a large part of it was an established orchard. There was lots of apricot, peach, apple, quince, cherry plum, damsons, almonds and - I suppose over two-thirds of the area. Then there was a vacant area of about quarter of an acre, half an acre, I suppose, which my Dad used to plant wheat in for feeding the horses. He being a miner, of course, and after water for watering the lucerne for feeding the cow and a couple of horses and a big fowl yard - a lot of fowls and some turkeys at different times - he decided to dig for water. He bored down and got water about thirty or forty feet down, and put up a windmill to pump it and so on.

Then he decided to dig a well around it. And this is a thing I'll never forget. Of course being a miner, it was right up his tree you see - I mean, digging. He had a windlass erected over it and he dug this well around the central bore, you know, the bore that was down originally - about this wide I suppose. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 14. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Five feet?

Three or four, five feet. I suppose it'd be about five feet across. Down thirty or forty feet, with only me there to haul the dirt and stuff up from the bottom and empty it out and lower the bucket down and off, and sink, you know. It's miraculous that that bucket didn't slip some time and crash down on him down in the bottom there. Sometimes a shudder goes through my body at the thought of it, you know. He dug this and I hawled the dirt up and I was only - - -. Well I was fifteen when he died, so I could've been thirteen or fourteen or even less. And then we used to lower bricks down for him to - - And he bricked the thing all up, all around and I lowered bucketfuls of bricks down to him. (laughs) And, you know, I didn't drop a brick. (laughter) It shows the sort of man he was. He was a worker.

And the well was fully functional?

Oh yes. Oh the well was very good and plenty of water and used to use it for - - -. He had a big - planted in a big lucerne plot and used to water the lucerne and the fruit trees and this sort of thing. And this was in the days before refrigerators or even ice chests and in the very hot weather we used to lower the butter and milk and stuff down the well to keep it cool.

Did you father keep up the fruit trees?

Yes, yes he did. We used to - - -. There was enough fruit to sell, apricots particularly, and we used to sell them to the jam factory up in Richmond Road. You know, the big chimney, do you know, on the Richmond Road, right up there. It's not a jam factory now. It's Freeman's Motor something or other. Used to be the IXL jam factory, and he used to sell apricots there. I don't know about the other fruit - he may have done that too.

After father died, of course, the fruit and the almonds and the cow and that sort of thing, helped my mother to survive. There was no income coming in. The money that he made mining sort of disappeared in hospital and medical fees over a number of years. But fortunately we had the property - the two acres over there which turned out to be very useful.

You mention that you had a large number of fowls. Did you sell the eggs as well?

Yes we did and Mother also made butter and sold butter, to neighbours and so forth. After my father died in 1918 - of course, in those days there was no pension or anything for any assistance at all. She was entirely on her own resources. Vastly different to the present days. They just had to - you know, had to survive one way or another. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 15. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Well, I had to leave school - high school, of course - at the end of the year 1918 that Dad died. And I think I told you before that I passed an entrance examination into the Postmaster General's Department and until I was appointed to a job there I worked as a messenger or junior clerk at the wheat merchants, Louis Dreyfus (Sc Co. They were in Bowman's Arcade Buildings in King William Street.

Well we'll talk more about that a little later on, but to continue with your child- hood just for the time being, we've talked about the yard. Did you parents have a vegetable garden in the yard?

Yes, we did. We had - we grew vegetables. We had, of course, grapes - a grapevine - almost all the fruit your can imagine. It was very good in a sense. Yes, there was a lot of vegetables grown. I can't just be very specific about it now, but I suppose I wasn't that interested. The property was prac- tically self-supporting.

You've mentioned horses. Were they for your father's carrying business?

Yes, that's right, they were.

Did you have stables on the property?

Yes, oh yes. We had stables and a barn and a sort of a trap shed and we had a sulky - you know, a horse-drawn sulky for riding about in; one horse sulky. Most of these buildings my father erected, there again using a bit of ingenuity, because they were mainly made of kerosene tins which probably you wouldn't have ever seen. They were four gallon kerosene tins about this high and about this square, and you could open them up sort of and spread them out and they provided a fair area of tin. And the barn and some of the other sheds were made of - were covered in by these kerosene tins. So every- thing was used that could be used.

Was there enough feed for the horses and the cow on the property?

Not on the property. They used to buy chaff as well - at times I suppose. There used to be a haystack, you know, and this half acre I suppose of wheat would be mown and made into a haystack, but it'd have to be supplemented by chaff, I suppose. I don't know - I suppose just hay, I would say, and probably wasn't sufficient for working horses. They used to buy it by the bag at one of the - the nearest grocer's shop on Richmond Road.

END OF TAPE 1 SIDE B: TAPE 2 SIDE A

Did you ride your father's work horses at all?

No. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 16. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Did you help him with his work at all?

Oh I would've. Well, in the sense that the upkeep of the orchard. He used to prune the trees and it was my job, and also my sister's, to rake up all the cuttings and get rid of them. That was a job we hated, I'm telling you. (laughter) But, as I said before, I used to clean the mortar off second hand bricks that they used for the inside walls of the house when they built it. Yes, I would've been pretty useful around the place. Certainly after Dad died. You know, I was the only - - -. My brother was ten years younger than I at the time and I was only fourteen or fifteen so the work fell on me. What with the cutting of the boxthorn hedge and one thing and another, I was pretty well occupied.

Did the family have any pets on the property?

We had a couple of dogs at different times. That's about all. I don't think we had any cats. We had two dogs at different times.

Did you have caged birds?

No.

So when you were growing up, were the occupants of the house your parents, brother and sister and yourself and your uncle while the house was being built? Was there anyone else who lived with you?

No, well my uncle of course only remained while he built the house and then went back to Victoria. But at different times after Father died, Mother let one or two of the rooms on a few occasions. Apart from that, no, there was nobody else living there.

Did she let room to long term occupants?

Oh yes. I mean, there was a young minister for the Richmond Church who boarded there for, I suppose a couple of years I suppose. And then there was another man and his wife and kiddy who also rented the rooms for - I don't know how long. I suppose twelve months, or something like that.

Which rooms were the boarders in?

The two rooms on the one side of the passage, you know, on the one side. Each room had a fireplace. The four rooms had a fireplace.

Would the rooms have been joined between themselves?

No they weren't. Just through the passage. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 17. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Do you have any idea what sort of income that would have brought in to your mother?

No, I really haven't the faintest idea. It wouldn't have been very much. But Mum was pretty resourceful one way and another. As I said, she'd milk the cow - she'd make butter. I know we didn't buy much butter, and she was able to sell butter to the neighbours - now and again when she had it - and eggs, and the almonds. We sold the almonds. There weren't too many of them but there was a few almonds. Then we raised turkeys.

What sort of number?

Wouldn't be more than twenty or so at a time I should think. We had this big fowl yard and fowl houses. There again, Dad had erected a lot of fowl houses, again out of kerosene tins. (laughter) So that there was no bother in keeping fowls so we had our supply of eggs. So all in all we had a pretty - well, you know, nourishing sort of food.

Did you mother, before your father's death, ever have any household help?

No, not at all.

Did she ever work outside the home herself?

As an unmarried woman she worked in Victoria on a cattle station not far away from her home, in Victoria, for a short while.

As a domestic?

As a domestic, yes. She recalls how unpleasant it was, really - her treatment, you know - the household treating her as a servant, and making her do this and that, you know, again, and this sort of thing. I think she got sick of that pretty smartly and she went over to Western Australia. (laughs)

She used to talk about that time?

Yes, she talked about her experiences with the Argyle's - they were called Argyle - and they were a pretty strict type of person I think. But apart of that - - -. Then, of course she ran this tearooms in Boulder [City] for some several years there and they did pretty well out of that I think. She got a nice silver teapot donated by her regular patrons there and a very nice letter from them - all signed, all of them - a very nicely written note. But that would be the extent of her outside employment.

Did she make up jams and pickles and so on from the garden? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 18. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Yes, she made jams, yes. The usual sort of thing, I suppose - pickles, and sauce probably. I can't be very specific about that but she did the usual. She was a good cook.

Did you raise any of your own meat on the property?

No. Oh, wait a minute. Yes, we did raise some pigs at one time. Yes, we had - - -. The next door neighbour, of course, ran a piggery there - a big piggery. But we only had perhaps half a dozen at a time, but I don't think that lasted very long. But we certainly did raise pigs for a while. I think that was before my father died. It would have been, yes.

With other neighbours on large blocks, do you know if there was any exchange system of produce between families?

No, not really. The property on the other side in Grove Avenue was the piggery and those people were fairly - well, they kept to themselves and a bit rough a ready sort of people. And being big blocks, you weren't that close together - the houses weren't terribly close together - so there wasn't any interexchange in anything in the way of foodstuffs, except what Mum sold in the way of cream and milk.

Did the pigs keep to themselves?

They were kept in a sty, you know - they weren't allowed to roam. But the piggery next door was a real piggery and that was rather unpleasant at times, when the north wind was blowing and it smelt pretty highly. (laughs) And feeding time, the squealing that went on. Pigs all squealing in, you know, hopping in to get their food. He used to go up to the markets and places and get scraps and things to feed them with. They rather smelt to high heaven at times.

Were most of the people in your area on two acre blocks?

Yes, they were all on two acre blocks, all adjacent to us, and across the road from us there was a - which now the Electricity Trust have got practically the whole area - was really a big holding owned by people called Barnes and the street behind them now is called Barnes Avenue. But this was probably fifty acres. Part of it was fruit trees and almond trees and then there was a huge area that extended right down to Richmond Road where they grew lucerne for sale and they had a bore - had a pump, you know, pump the water up from the ground and irrigated it. And they'd cut this lucerne and bundle it up into bundles about this big and he'd sell it to the market or somewhere. So it was really a rural scene there. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 19. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Did you get up to the more densely populated areas or to the city in your early childhood?

Well, I suppose as far as I'm concerned from the time that I started high school in 1917 - - Of course I had to travel up to North Terrace daily for two years and then of course I was working in the city from then on, so that I was quite familiar with the city in that sense.

What about before that time?

Well, when I was going to the Richmond school, no I can't recall anything very much. I do recall going to the Theatre Royal on a few occasions. I remember my dad took me to the Theatre Royal to see Sir Harry Lauder. I don't know whether you've ever heard of Harry Lauder - sing, the Scotchman?

Yes.

Dad took me to see Harry Lauder and I recall seeing several of the Gilbert and Sullivans up there, you know, in the early times. Pictures were - - Oh, I didn't see too much of the picture shows I suppose for a while. Anyway, then when pictures became more common there was what you called the Pay, the Pavilion down in the Rundle Mall there, down near the Adelaide Arcade. That's disappeared of course. There was West Pictures in Hindley Street and several picture shows there - used to go and see them.

When you were a lad, before going on to high school, what do you remember about Saturdays?

About Saturdays? Well, while Dad was alive, it was more or less of a working day I think for me, because there was always a lot to do about the property. You know, either ploughing - well, not that I've ploughed - but ploughing and harvesting and raking up the hay and this sort of thing. Also the pruning and picking of fruit and one thing and another.

I was in the Boy Scouts and we used to have Saturday, you know, parades, that sort of thing. I don't know how frequently they were now but I used to enjoy those. I went to a few Scout camps in my time.

How old were you when you first got involved with Scouts?

Well I would've been fairly young, because the Scout Master that we had went to the war during 1914-18, so it would've been round about 1914 or earlier. So I would've been about - what, about nine or ten I suppose - when I first joined.

What do you remember of the activities? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 20. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Oh well, we used to meet at the church hall over at the Richmond Baptist Church once a week at night. In those days the airport down there wasn't there of course, so it was a sandhill area. Wild scrub and natural - it was just natural scrub. It was a marvellous place for boys. We used to go down there as a group of Scouts and we had to pass tests, you know, like lighting fires and cooking something or other and pitching a tent and all that sort of thing. So Saturdays were occupied largely there. But from the time I was fourteen onwards or course I had to do this military training. We used to have to do three or four hours of Saturday afternoon, you know.

Yes, well let's talk about that.

It was pretty grim, I can tell you. (laughter)

Yes, that was the Compulsory Military Training.

That's right, from the age of fourteen to eighteen we were in what was called the Senior Cadets, and we had to do a certain number of hours' training for the year, and this involved a certain number of Saturday afternoon parades and a certain amount of night parades. We used to have to go over to the - - -. It was then held on the Burbridge Road where the Electricity Trust have got a big building on Burbridge Road. That wasn't there of course and we used to parade there and drill there, you know. So we had to - you know, a lot of our time was taken up in this.

When you first got involved it would've been World War One time and taken pretty seriously I would think.

Oh yes. Well, we had to go. See, I was fifteen when the war finished - fifteen and a half when the war finished. Another couple of years and I would've been in it as well. So we did this four years there and then we weren't allowed to go. We were transferred into the Militia - Citizens' Forces or something or other it was called - for another two years. And that's the pictures that I showed you there, dressed up as soldiers. Issued with a rifle - we had a rifle at home. I was in the Light Horse and I'd never ridden a horse in my life. (laughs) However, that involved, again, a lot of time, including fortnights up at Gawler Racecourse for camping and one thing or another. So the young fellows in our days don't know what they're - how lucky they are really.

Do you remember how you felt about getting involved with something like that when you were fourteen? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 21. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Oh, I suppose we took it as a matter of course, you know. Well, this is it - this is what you do. But I can never forget going over the first - it must have been the first occasion - and the officer, or non-NCO or whatever it was there, was rounding us all up, and he said, 'This is a - - -. You're the 1903 quota aren't you?' 1903 quota - oh dear - I thought that was pretty callous sort of. (laughter) Anyway, we survived.

Were you the group from Richmond or a larger district meeting together?

Oh, would've been a large district, yes. I suppose it would take in all Torrens- ville and all over there.

Was there a name for the group you were included in?

I couldn't say. It was the Senior Cadets as far as I was aware of and the Citizens' Force was from eighteen to twenty I think it was. Light Horse - then we went on to the Light Horse. Had leggings and all the rest of it. (laughs)

Had you been involved in any drilling at school before joining the Senior Cadets?

Yes we had as a matter of fact. At the Richmond Primary school on Fridays. Certain Fridays we used to do gardening as I think we mentioned. They actually had rifles there, from the Boer War, you know - great muskets, great heavy things - and we were drilled with rifles, boys of about - - -. Well, let's see, I was - 1917 - up to the age of thirteen, I suppose twelve or thirteen or so. We were drilled there with these great big muskets, you know. I often think over that, you know - why the heck did they have guns at a primary school? And these weren't light. These were great big old fashioned muskets. (laughs)

Do you remember who drilled you at school?

Yes, one of the teachers, a chap called Johncock I think his name was - Mr Johncock.

How seriously was the exercise taken at school?

I don't really know. There again, I suppose we just did what we were told and that was it. But when I went to high school and I was in the Senior Cadets there at the time, there the headmaster and the senior second headmaster - the next senior teacher, were commissioned. The headmaster was a Captain and the other one was a Lieutenant, and on Thursdays - I don't know whether it was every week, probably it wasn't - but [interruption]. We used to march down from North Terrace, down Frome Road to the Parade Ground. You know the Parade Ground, behind Government House - - -? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 22. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Yes.

- - and drill there, on Thursday afternoons. All these old fashioned manoeuvres, you know, change of direction - - -. We were marching along this way and you've got to glance this way and - - -. (laughs) So a lot of my time as a child was taken up with military training.

What do you think of it in retrospect?

Well, it didn't do us any harm I suppose. I often think it might have done these young fellows a lot of good at the present time. (laughs) I think it was a bit overdone - I mean, there was too much of it. Like six years is a lot out of your lifetime, not that - I mean, it was only part time - but I think a couple of years of military training for young fellows is a good thing. Not that I want war or anything like this, but I think it brings out something in a fellow - discipline for one thing. You're disciplined - you've got to do what you're told, you know - or else, and I think that's good for some people.

What was discipline like for you fourteen, fifteen years olds, in the Cadets?

In the Cadets? Oh well, I mean, you were in the Army and you did what you were told. I think - so I think I did what I was told. (laughs) But we had these blanky rifles and we used to drill.

Were you always able to attend as required?

These parades?

Parades and camps and so on?

Well you had to do a certain number of hours a year. If you were obliged to miss a parade, well you had to make it up - there was no getting out of it.

I know before the war there was some resistance to this sort of training.

Before the last war?

Before the First World War. I think it started in about 1909. Did you know of any resistance amongst boys or parents to being involved?

I wasn't aware of it, no. I think as boys of that age we - - -. You know, we were expected - this was what you had to do. No sense in any arguments. No, I wasn't aware of what you mentioned.

We've talked about Saturday daytime activities. When you were a boy, before your father's death, was there any particular entertainment on Saturday night that the family was involved in? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 23. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Yes, well we had originally had a little organ which we later sold and bought a piano. I was taught to play the piano - my sister was as well - and my mother could play. A lot of sing-songs, you know. That was the popular form of evening entertainment. But we had - - -. My father knew - it must have been a Moonta family who lived over in Hilton - and we used to go over there some evenings and they had this old gentleman, Mr Northy, who used to play cribbage. You know, they had a little crib board and little matches and things in it, and they used to enjoy themselves I suppose. (laughs) I could never be concerned with it, but we used to go over there, I suppose fairly frequently. We used to walk over there. It was a fairly long walk too.

Then of course there was church activities. There was, you know, Church concerts sometimes, school concerts held down there - down at the hall next to the church. The Democratic Club it was called. It's since disappeared. Oh, we'd go to the pictures I suppose. I can't recall now how frequently.

Birthdays and that sort of thing were celebrated of course, usually with people coming to birthday parties. I don't think we were really overwhelmed with activities. (laughter)

You said that your parents both belonged to the Richmond Baptist Church Choir. Is that the church that your family attended?

Yes, it is. It's still over there and my wife and I were married there.

Were their families' backgrounds Baptist?

Whose?

Your parents?

No, they weren't really - they were Methodist, I think. I think Mother was more Church of England I think - on my mother's side. My father's side was Methodist, but there wasn't any Methodist church handy at Richmond. The Baptist Church there, which was practically the same thing as Methodist anyway, so they went there. The nearest Methodist church is the one just down here on the corner of Marion Road and Mooringe Avenue which we attend now. That was too far to go from Richmond though.

Who in the family attended church?

Oh, we all did. We went to Sunday School over there up to a certain age. Mum attended the church practically until she died, you know, until she couldn't go any further.

Did you go each week? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 24. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Well, more or less regularly. I mean, there would be gaps I suppose, but fairly regular attendance. And at that time there was a family living in a - just around the corner in another of the two acre blocks - called the Milligans, and they were very - - -. They were a big family of - all girls, a lot of girls, you know - and the father and mother were regular church goers. Sunday night after church they used to sort of like people to go round to their place and have supper and sing songs and so forth there, and that was fairly frequent. That was only - - -. Well, you could practically throw a stone from our place - from one corner of our place to one corner of their place I suppose. But that was a big family and they were all girls. I suppose there was ten or eleven or them.

END OF TAPE 2 SIDE A: TAPE 2 SIDE B

What do you remember of church in your childhood? Did it mean much to you?

Well in a sense it did. I recall a time when I was studying and working fairly hard. It gave me a sort of feeling of peace and relaxation I think to attend the church. On the other hand, looking back now, some of the ministers who preached there were not very well educated, I suppose you might say. I don't think they were very deeply steeped in - what do you call it, the study of religion?

Theology.

Theology. I think they mainly reacted on sentiment and - - -. You know, 'I was a bad boy,' sort of, and 'I was to change,' and all this sort of thing - senti- mental sort of appeal which I think was about all they had in some cases. Some of them were all right but I feel that they - - I think the ministry of today are far better educated and have a more educated philosophical outlook than the old fellows did. There was one old parson - he went to the Boer War as a preacher, you know, what do they call them? - and he took a few photo- graphs. You know, things of the Boer War. And he used to show them on slides - you know the old slides do you?

Yes.

That was one of the entertainments we used to have - slide shows, you know - that little thing that showed a little picture on a screen with a little candle or a little kerosene lamp behind it - reflect the picture (laughs). And he used to make - - -. He used to entertain us with this - - -. But yes, generally speak- ing, I suppose I benefited from the Sunday School and teachings there. Any- how we are regular members of the church down here. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 25. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

You said your father had a Methodist background. What restrictions were there on you behaviour in your upbringing?

Well, it was a bit different to nowadays. A Sunday was a day in which you didn't work. You didn't make a noise - you know, too much noise - you didn't involve yourself in anything except getting meals and one thing and another. But it was never strongly enforced at home, anything like that, but the thought of playing football or cricket on Sunday was unheard of, you know. We never dreamed it would ever come about.

Even as boys rather than professional teams?

Yes, and any form of enjoyment of that sort. Even now, I wouldn't cut the lawn with a loud lawnmower, you know. I don't know why, but that's the way it was. (laughs) I don't think it really meant anything really. I don't think it had any background in real christianity, just like eating fish on Friday, and all this sort of thing. But certainly, there were those sort of limitations which you didn't do this and didn't do that on Sunday.

What about everyday life? What were your parents' attitudes to, say, drinking?

Oh well they were teetotal and they never drank at all. Mother was a member of the Woman's Christian Temperance Union.

Was she an active member?

Oh yes, she was. She used to wear a little brooch with - I forget what was on it, WCTU or something like that.

Did she attend meetings?

Yes. Yes, the whole family has been teetotal as far as I know. Well, if not teetotal, almost so anyway. None of my children - two sons and a daughter - drink or smoke, including myself. Oh, I have smoked but I turned that up some time ago.

Did you father smoke?

Yes, he smoked a pipe and he used to get this plug tobacco - a lump of tobacco about that big, you know, about that thick - and he had a sort of a shear. A tobacco thing - you put it in and you sheared it off, you know, sliced it off like this. It always used to be my job to shear some off for him. It was black, tarry looking stuff. (laughs)

What about your parents' attitudes to dancing? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 26. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Oh, I don't think there was objections there. I don't recall them actually ever dancing as far as I'm aware, but I don't think there was any suggestion that I shouldn't dance.

What about card playing?

No, Dad used to play - - -

Cribbage?

- - - cribbage. We didn't used to play cards at home, I don't recall, much, or anything like that. But there wasn't any restriction as far as that's con- cerned. But they were strictly against gambling and drinking.

Who would you say was the chief disciplinarian in the household?

Oh, well, my father, while he was alive. He would've been fairly strict although, as I say, I was only fifteen when he died. He'd like an argument, my father, I think. Political, you know. (laughs) I can recall being embarrassed by him arguing with one of my uncles about politics. Apparently he had strong views on whatever it was at the time.

Do you know what his political views were?

He was a Labor man at the time. At that time the Labor people needed all the help they could get because things weren't easy for working people. So he was a staunch Labor man at the time. This other uncle that he argued with obviously was not. (laughs)

What sort of values do you think your parents tried to instil in you?

Well my father was most emphatic that you had to be educated if you were going to get on. That was his aim - you know, to get us educated. He saw that I went to high school and not knock off at thirteen when you could. So it was instilled in me, anyway, to study. My sister didn't go on to high school. My brother did a bit. But I was sort of the studious one I suppose you could call it, probably because I was thrown into the fray, being the eldest boy and realising the situation. So I became imbued with the need to study and get on a bit and that's what I did.

Did you have books in the house when you were growing up?

Oh yes, we had books, and we used to get editions of Dickens. We got all of Dickens's books and one of our entertainments at night, now that you mention it, was reading aloud. My mother and I in particular would read aloud chapters from the various books, and Dickens - we read every one of them. Of course as I got on there was a lot of technical books of course that I had to study. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 27. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Did the family take a newspaper?

Yes, we took a newspaper. It was called the Daily Herald - long extinct of course. Then the Advertiser and Register were two morning papers. Yes, Advertiser and then the Register was taken over, I think, by the Advertiser. I think the Advertiser now - - I think it's headed 'incorporated with the Register' or something? Yes, we took the paper.

Did you belong to a lending library?

No. No, there wasn't a library about that I can recall. The nearest one now is over at the West Torrens Council Chambers - a very good library, which I use now. No, I didn't have any library.

Before your father died, did the family ever take holidays together?

No I don't think so. Mother went over to her home on a couple of occasions, once when her father died, and I went over with her once leaving Dad at home. I don't think that there was ever any holiday as such, apart from that, up to the time when my father died. I suppose he had had enough holidays in a sense. (laughs) He'd travelled around a fair bit.

Let's talk a little bit more about your childhood. Who do you remember as your friends in the early days?

What was that?

Your childhood friends?

There was - on the - a two acre block on the other side of our place there was a family called Dick, and there was a young fellow called Gordon Dick, about my age there, and we were very friendly. We both went to the Richmond school and then we subsequently went to the technical school in town. He was a very gifted young fellow, really. He could draw very well, very well indeed, and he could pass examinations. He was always Dux of the school over here - at Richmond - and at the technical school in town, 'course I never was. (laughter) But we were good friends for years and he - - Of course he had his parents alive and he was able to go to the university. He went to Adelaide University, got his Bachelor of Science, I think, degree, and then he went overseas - over to the UK - at an early age for, I don't know how long - about twelve months I suppose.

What was his father's line of work?

His father?

Yes. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 28. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

His father was a carpenter. When I say carpenter, he was more of a cabinet maker I should say. He had a little shop in Franklin Street, not far from the Central Methodist Mission Church there - just down the street a bit from there. And he used to do a lot of the office fitting work for places like Elder Smiths and those places. He was a pretty good cabinet maker I think.

What were your main hobbies or pastimes as a lad?

Well, I was very fond of cricket and we had plenty of ground in our place to play cricket, and a few of the boys around used to come and we used to play. You know, when I say play cricket, not a real game, but we'd have batting and bowling and this sort of thing, which we thoroughly enjoyed. As far as we were concerned it was cricket.

All of us usually had a bike, you know, for bike riding. We used to ride down to West Beach - have a swim down at West Beach. We went down to - rode down to Port Noarlunga and stayed overnight on one occasion, on our bikes.

What else? Oh, I played tennis. Dicks had a tennis court and we played tennis there.

This friend, this Gordon, he went overseas and came back, but, as I say, he was always Dux - or practically always Dux - of the high school, and he got a job as a scientist down at Brighton Cement Works. But he, unfortunately, wasn't very robust. He caught a few diseases and he died - oh, it's twenty years ago I suppose.

What do you remember of illness in the family as you were growing up?

In the family? Well, my father of course was the main one. I suppose from the time when I was really - well, really noticed things - he wasn't a well man. But my mother, sister and brother, were pretty right. Mother was, I suppose, pretty robust in a way, except she was very susceptible to hay- fever. She used to get hayfever something terrible. But apart from that I don't think she had any great disability. My sister was pretty robust, but my brother was very - well, my mother didn't expect to rear him really. He was very weedy, I suppose you'd call it. But he's seventy two so he survived all right. (laughter)

Yes I noticed in the photograph you showed me, he looked very slight.

Oh yes, he was very slight.

Did you have a family doctor during your father's illness? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 29. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

My father was - - -. He wasn't, I don't suppose, a family doctor. I'm not too clear on what doctor he had really, but after that we were in the Rechabite Lodge medical sort of scheme and there was a Lodge doctor. He was on North Terrace actually, and that was the nearest doctor at that time. He turned out to be Sir Philip Messent eventually - Dr Messent. He was a fine doctor that chap.

Had you not been in such a scheme before your father's death?

I think we probably were but I wasn't aware of it. Not of the Rechabite Lodge - that's a teetotal sort of lodge.

Let's talk now about your time at school. On coming down from Moonta, did you begin attending the Richmond school immediately?

Yes, that is right, I attended the Richmond school immediately. I'm not too sure what time of the year it was. I know that several weeks went by before I actually started, so I suppose it was round about Christmas time or some- thing, or early in the new year. But yes, I started at the Richmond school practically straight away and attended there until the end of 1916 when I sat for the Qualifying Certificate as it was called then, which I passed. And then sat for an entrance examination to go to the Adelaide Technical High School which I passed, and Gordon passed it too. So we both went there.

What do you remember of the Richmond school? How large was it then?

Well, it was a fairly large school. The teacher - the head teacher at least - was a Mr Cornelius, a Cornishman from Moonta. He knew my father and so on, and he and his wife lived on the property. You know, the house alongside the school, sort of. He was a character. He had a fine voice and he didn't mind, you know, exploiting it. He knew all the Gilbert and Sullivan ones, you know, and he'd - - Of course we'd have singing lessons you see. I don't know whether they still do or not but we were taught singing. And he would lead us in this and he would sing some of the Gilbert and Sullivans - and he'd put real emphasis into it. He was a real character. And then of course we would have penny concerts, we'd call them. We'd all practice at least some little thing there and play around there. But there was Mr Cornelius and then there was a Mr Johncock - sort of senior teacher I suppose - and a number of others. I can't recall their names. But it wasn't a very big school. They added a couple of classrooms while I was going there, but there was a big school yard and a big garden that we used to grow vegetables in and so forth, and drill. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 30. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

But one thing I can recall about it was during the First World War and the landing in Gallipoli, that a number of boys in my class whose elder brothers had gone, and they were getting killed. And the papers would come out, you know, long lists of killed and wounded, and I can recall the boys, you know, sitting more or less alongside of me, their brothers had been killed. It was a tragic thing. I'll never forget that. They were boys who had been at that school only perhaps two or three years before.

What sort of school activities do you remember associated with the war?

There was a certain amount of getting parcels for the troops. You know, soaps and handy things that the soldiers - would be useful, you know - warm clothing, scarves and this sort of thing. There was a fair bit of effort put into that, doing that sort of thing. Then there'd be concerts held to raise money to buy materials for this business and there was the Cheer Up Hut on the back of the Railway Station in town that had to be supported sort of. But my most vivid memories are those boys being killed.

Were any of your close family involved in the war?

No, they weren't really. I was too young, my father had died. My father was too old in any case. No, no one in the State - none of my family in this State were involved. The branch of the family in Western Australia - several of those went to the war - but I think they survived. Of course in the second war I was a married man with three kiddies in a reserved occupation and so I couldn't go in any case, but as I mentioned, we were drafted into this Lines of Communication Unit. What do you call it, the 4th Line of Communications Signals Citizens' Military Forces, and I was given a commission as Lieutenant. The idea was if the Japs landed, well we would be going to the field to maintain corn munications.

Back in primary school were you aware of your father's intention, or your own intention, to go on afterwards?

Yes. As I said, my father wanted me to be educated as well as possible, and he had in mind getting me into an electrical firm in the city. I'm not sure where it was now. I know roughly where it was, but I've since found it's disappeared. He thought perhaps the electrical side was an up and coming thing and that was the intention, but as it turned out I got into the electrical side in the PMG. But he was most emphatic that you've got to be educated to get on anywhere, and he was very, very right. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 31. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Yes, well you went on to the technical high school which was in the School of Mines.

School of Mines and Industries Building.

You were there about two years?

I was there two years yes. My father died in June of the second year and I continued on till the end of the year, but then I had to leave and earn some money.

What course had you embarked upon there?

It was the technical course. I suppose much like the Technical High Schools around the place now. We did the usual mathematics, English, geography and geometry and chemisty and physics and in addition woodwork and fitting and turning. They had these big workshops in the building there. It all turned ou-t to be very useful sort of information. So it was a technical - emphasis on th technical side, as distinct from purely arts and that sort of thing. But i t helped me to pass that entrance exam into the Post Office which served rri e very well.

I saw from the photographs we were looking at, you were amongst a great numbeer of boys. It was a big institution was it?

Well, I don't think it was a very big school. I suppose that number - thcwse boys would've been the whole school, although I don't think there was any giTls in that picture but there were girls there too. They did a separate course though, in that they had - I think they had dressmaking and cooking and tlklat sort of thing, you know. Pm not sure how many girls went there. I don't ti-xink it's a great number. But it wasn't a big school. But was very good - a Ne- ery good school.

How did you find the work after primary school?

At the high school?

Yes.

Not easy. I didn't really make a name for myself in the scholastic serte at that time. I struggled through, you know, average. But I think I go t the basics - the idea of study - and after that, after I went to work, I went back to school on a night school basis. Used to go up to four times a week at -Tiight, back to school, making up for what I'd lost through not being able to co rriplete the high school course. And when I got into the PMG department it waits on a training basis. I was a training technician, and we used to go back ther•-• again one day a week for electrical - electric technology they called it - clases. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 32. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

So did you complete at night school the course that you'd embarked upon at high school or was it - - -?

Well I think I more or less completed the two years at high school. At that time there were examinations called Junior Public and Senior Public, I think they were called. I did the Senior Public examination.

Was that at the end of the two years?

End of the two years, yes.

END OF TAPE 2 SIDE B: TAPE 3 SIDE A

Let's talk now about your finishing school. As you say your father died in June. Was there any hope of you being able to continue after that year? Did you have any hopes?

I would have continued on had my father lived, but there wasn't - - -. It was essential then that I should earn some money, so I got this job, as I said, in the wheat place. I got three pounds six and eightpence a month. (laughs) About fifteen shillings a week.

Do you remember discussions with your mother about having to leave school?

Yes. Mum found that she just couldn't support the family without me going to work and bringing in some money.

How did you feel about that?

I don't know really. I don't think I regretted it very much at the time. No, I sort of accepted it. Of course I was very keen on this Post Office job and I think that sort of overshadowed any feeling that I might have had of not being able to continue on at school.

Why did you decide on the PMG Department?

Well, there was a notice posted on the noticeboard in the school about that time inviting applications to sit for the entrance examination. It looked interesting to me. I consulted one of my uncles who - - I put it to him, what did he think about it and he thought it looked all right, so I sat for it and, as I say, passed it.

What did this qualify you for?

To enter as a Junior Technician in training - three year training course in telephony and - - -. You know these old telegraphy telephony in the Post Office - Telecom as it now is. And we did a day at week at the School of Mines on science and mathematics. That was further on from what I'd done at high school, you see. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 33. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

There was a delay in your being able to take up this position.

Yes, there was about fourteen months I had to wait for it - wait for a vacancy.

Why was there such a delay do you know?

Oh, it's more or less typical I think of the Public Service. They can only appoint you if there is a vacancy - you know, if there is an actual vacancy been created - and apparently there wasn't a vacancy and I had to wait until somebody was, you know, promoted from that position, or somebody retired or something like this, till the vacancy occurred - till I could go in there.

How did you come to get the job in the meantime with the wheat merchants?

I got that, I think - - -. Well I got it through a friend of the family who attended the Baptist Church. He was an accountant in the firm and he got me in.

So when did you start there?

Well it would've been the beginning of 1919 - I suppose somewhere early in 1919 - because I went to the Post Office on February the twentieth 1920.

What was the name of the firm?

Louis Dreyfus & Co.

Where were they?

They had their offices in Bowman Building which is Bowman's Arcade which is now occupied by the Taxation Department. Do you remember Bowman's Arcade?

No, I don't think so. Which street is that?

King William Street. It's right alongside the very ornate little building - you know the little bank - -. What do you call it, the Edmund Wright House - yes alongside of that.

What did your duties involve?

Oh, my duties involved there were getting the mail from the Post Office boxes - you know, going and collecting the mail - posting letters, picking up sample bags of wheat - little packets of wheat sent to be sent in by the farmers for grading as samples of their wheat, you know. These are little brown paper envelopes for wheat - used to pick them up. And used to go around to the Wheat Board's offices in Peel Street - it used to be parallel with King William Street, behind Bowman's Arcade. These wheat certificates at ATB/I0/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 34. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

that time, the farmers would - oh, Louis Dreyfus would sell the wheat for the farmers, and then they'd issue certificates which, I suppose, was more or less a cheque for them to collect their money sort of. I used to have to take these around to the Wheat Board. General office duties I suppose.

Oh, yes, apparently these weren't the days when you had carbon copies of letters, because we used to have to copy the letters. As soon as a letter would go out to a farmer, and there was a machine there that you used to - - -. You had to dampen it with a brush - dampen the thing with a brush - put the letter on it and turn a handle and a copy of the letter would be trans- cribed on to another sheet. You know, pretty primitive form of copying, but that's the way it was done then. We had to copy these for the office copy you see. That was one of the jobs.

There was, I suppose, eight or ten employees there. There was a traveller who was almost always in the country somewhere buying wheat or arranging for stacking. It was all bagged wheat in those days of course - wheat stacks. Getting dunnage as they called it. This was sort of rough timber for propping up haystacks and one thing and another. It was an interesting insight, I suppose, into industry in that sense. But there wasn't any future in it. You know, it was only a stepping stone.

How did you find working full time?

Oh, I think it was all right. I think I enjoyed it.

Of the money that you earned, how much did you give to your mother?

I got three pounds six and eight a month and I got six and eight of that myself. That was fifteen shillings a week roughly, that I earned. Four fifteen shillings a week came to about - as I said, three pounds six and eightpence. I think it depended on whether it was twenty-eight or thirty-one days in the month sort of.

Let's talk about you entering the PMG Department. What do you remember of your first days there?

Well, the first days, I went into the telephone workshop which was then centred in the GPO itself. There were a number of us juniors in training and our job was to do simple repair works on telephone equipment. My first job was to repair switching cords. I don't know if you know the old fashioned cord boards where you lifted a plug and plugged into a jack sort of. Well, these cords eventually wear and the conductors break, and generally it needs over- hauling and repair. We were right alongside of the Central Exchange - the ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 35. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Adelaide Central Exchange - and, of course, there were hundreds of these cords in use all the time and there was plenty of cords to be repaired, so that was our job, to overhaul these cords, repair them. Then we had to take them to the testing officer for him to test that they were correct and so forth.

From that we developed on to simple repairs on telephones. We learnt how to adjust the transmitters to the microphone and the receivers and so forth and became skilled in all the types of telephones that were in use at that time. It was good all round training in that side of the work.

But every third week we had to work overnight from eleven o'clock at night till seven in the morning in the Central Exchange, testing all the cords in the Exchange every night. It was a big exchange and lots of operator's positions - about this wide, and a girl would sit at what we called a position - and she'd have seventeen pairs of cords in front of her and keys for rigging and speaking and metering and so forth. We'd have test boxes - boxes on legs - and we had to test every cord. Pick up the cord, plug it into the test box, test that it was OK or faulty. If it was faulty we had to take it out, throw it away and put a new one in, and of course that went to the boys to repair. So we did this every night from eleven to seven - once every three weeks there. In doing that we got a pretty good insight into how things worked there, you know. We weren't spending all our time testing cords. The senior men, the mechanics and the senior mechanics and the foremen were there and they were involved in the more difficult parts of the work - skilful part of the work - and we would help them of course, and this was good training.

But the day that we went to the school they used to let us go off at about two o'clock in the morning to go home and have a bit of a sleep before going to school. I had to push my way on a bike from the GPO down to Richmond at two o'clock in the morning. (laughs) Then of course we'd have a bit of a sleep and then go to the high school.

Then for three years, over this three years course, we did all sorts of field work. We'd go out with a mechanic repairing telephones in the homes or overhauling and repairing switchboards, you know, in the city businesses, like John Martin's, Myers and all those places. We'd go round there. There was always something going wrong that needed attention. And we were also on installation work installing switchboards, installing telephones and so forth, laying cables in buildings. So that after the end of three years you sat for a Mechanics exam - now it's a Technician - you sat for this examination which I passed, and I was a qualified Mechanic. This was - - I would've been - oh, I was twenty. Yes, I was twenty years old, about twenty. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 36. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

The next step was Senior Mechanic and Foreman Mechanic. Having passed the Mechanics' exam I immediately set to and the next exam for Senior Mechanic I sat for and passed that and became a Senior Mechanic. I don't know whether there's a Foreman Mechanic's exam or not, or whether it's just time. Round about that time - -

Perhaps I'm getting ahead of it a bit. I joined there in 1920 so it'd be 1923 when I finished the three year course and 1924 - yes, Pd be a Senior Mechanic. Then about that time - - Of course there was no automatic telephony in Adelaide at the time, but they had it started in Western Victoria and Sydney. So they decided to replace the manual equipment with automatic equipment here, so they sent batches of us over to Melbourne to get experience in the work. This was in 1925. And I went over there for about four months, working in the Ascot Exchange. You saw a picture of me there, working there. I came back and - -

But then, about the same time as that, the long distance - long trunk line - big developments in the long trunk line transmission. Up to that time the only way of talking from A to B or Adelaide to Melbourne, say, was over a pair of copper wires and just one conversation on it. And, as it's a long way - about four hundred and fifty miles or so - the voices, when they reached the far end, were considerably weakened by losses in the copper. But a system was developed called a carrier telephone system whereby you could super- impose three additional channels over one pair of wires, so that you'd have the normal physical line plus three superimposed ones, giving you four channels instead of one you see. And those additional three were very good quality because they were amplified at repeater stations at Bordertown and Ararat in Victoria. So that the speech - - -. The losses due to electrical characteristics of the line can be overcome by just turning up the amplifica- tion of the amplifier, so that the voice that went in this end would be received at the other end at the same strength. So at that time was sort of just being developed and I was selected to go into that. It was an entirely new thing. And at that time I was, as I say, a Senior Mechanic. And the man in charge of this new work was an Engineer - professional Engineer - who eventually finished up his career as Director General of Post and Telegraphs.

What was his name?

Frank O'Grady. His name was in that book you saw [Ann Moyal, Clear Across Australia.] He became a very - he was a very talented, skilful and nice fellow. Anyway he picked me to be on his staff with two or three others and ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 37. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

we sort of concentrated on this sort of work. Not only the speech - improved speech - but also the telegraph side. We were able to superimpose ten tele- graph channels where there was previously only one, and this sort of thing, you see.

It must have been an exciting period.

It was an exciting period. It was a rapidly developing period, as it is now, but up to that time there was very little new going on, you know, from the early days of the telephone. Like when I joined up, as I say, it was a manual - entirely a manual system - and it wasn't many years before that where you had to turn the handle to ring the exchange, you know. So this was very interesting, the fact that at that time, as I mentioned, there wasn't a single amplifier or valve in use in the PMG Department. And there was very few used anywhere else for that matter - a few wireless sets, you know, on an amateur basis around the place.

This thing boomed and we installed these carrier systems on the main trunk routes to Port Augusta and Broken Hill and Pinnaroo and Yorktown and these places. Then - we getting on a bit in the years - but in 1930 we did the same thing to the Perth line. Between Adelaide and Perth there were only - there were three single wires from Adelaide to Perth, three telegraph wires - and we were able to take two of them, make a pair of wires, and superimpose one of these systems over that, plus a program me channel to relay pro- grammes to the west.

For broadcast?

For broadcasting, yes. This was in 1930 and I was involved in that. I went out to - - -. We had to build repeater stations at Gladstone and Tarcoola and Cook - we had one at Port Augusta already - and on the West Australia side, the West Australia people did the same over there at Kalgoorlie and Rawlinna and Merredin and so forth. Then in 1930 roughly we provided a telephone communication between Perth and Adelaide and this was the longest tele- phone circuit in the world.

How did you feel about being involved with something like that?

Oh, it was exciting. It was very good. You know, first in on such a new thing. It opened up - - -. Started the ball rolling because whereas when we first put the system in from Adelaide to Melbourne, there was only three people could talk from one end to another. When we put the three channel system in it meant six immediately, and it wasn't long before they brought in ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 38. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

twelve channel systems. Now they've got coaxial cable and microwaves systems where there's hundreds - there's thousands of channels, you know. So, that was the beginning of all this.

And you, in the meantime, were qualified as an Engineer?

No, I was qualified as a Senior Technician and in 19- - I was qualified as a Senior Technician in about 1923 - about 1924 I think it was - and I qualified as an Engineer in 1928. I began to realise that, you know, there was better jobs in the Post Office than technician and there weren't very many engineers, so - - -. They occasionally held examinations for promotion as engineers and I was encouraged to study for it.

By whom?

By some of the senior - some of the engineers - and I then took coaching. I had some coaching in mathematics and science by a very good coach, and

What was his name?

His name was John Hill and he was the second in charge engineer - Second Engineer in Charge. The senior man was the Superintending Engineer. And he was the Second in Charge. Actually I finished up as Superintending Engineer many years later. But he was a very good mathematics teacher. He was able to get down to basic and I loved it - I thoroughly enjoyed it - so I was able to pass this exam in 1928. But unfortunately this was the start of the Great Depression and the old question of vacancies occurred like when I first went into the Department - I had to wait. I had to wait till 1935 because - before I was promoted.

To Engineer?

To Engineer. But in the meantime I acted as Engineer. It didn't make any difference. I was paid as an Engineer but I was only on an acting basis. I was permanently appointed in 1935 as an Engineer. So that was the way it all went. But in the meantime - about about 1930, it's about on the edge of this period you're talking about - the ABC started, 1930. And the PMG were given the job of doing the technical side of it. The installation of broadcasting transmitters, broadcasting studies - everything concerned with the broadcast- ing of the programme, up to the point where the ABC took over. They provided the program me - news program me or whatever was to be broadcast, they did it, right up to this point, to the microphone - then we took over from the microphone and broadcast it. There again, we were into a new job. None ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 39. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

of us had ever been working on broadcasting stations. There weren't that many about in those days. And I was one of two or three - with Mr O'Grady and myself and one or two others - were selected to go into this broadcasting business.

So for several years - from about '28 to about '33 or so I suppose - I was more or less on broadcasting work down at Brooklyn Park where the trans- mitter used to be. Down at Brooklyn Park near the Airport - where the Airport is now - and the studio was in Hindmarsh Square which recently has been demolished.

This was for 5CL.

5CL and - - 5CL only at that time. A few years later SAN came along as well. But I was - up to the time while I was still a Technician - I became a Foreman Technician in charge of the studios, and I actually worked down at Hindmarsh Square studios in charge of the technical side there, and we did all the outside broadcasts - you know, churches, football matches, races and all this sort of thing. So I had two years experience of that too.

You must have been sorry to see those buildings go.

Well, they were a pretty ramshackled old place. Oh, they were a terrible place really. Second hand old thing, you know. No, it wasn't a nice place really, in that sense, you know. Of course they've gone out to Collinswood now. So I've had a pretty varied experience one way and another.

Can you remember how the pay changed during the period we're talking about?

The pay? Yes, the pay was always good as a Mechanic. It was a bit above the ordinary tradesman's pay and as a Senior Mechanic it was better, and as a Foreman Mechanic it was better still and as an Engineer, of course, it was a lot better. But it was about the time that I became an Engineer that the first big award was made to professional engineers. [It was called the Harvester Award for Professional Engineers. AR] Anyway, the engineer's minimum wage then was five hundred and twenty eight pounds a year which, in 1930 or thereabouts, was mighty good pay. A pound was worth a lot of things then. (laughs) So the pay and conditions were always good. As a Commonwealth Government thing we were pretty well treated in the sense that we got three weeks holiday a year, and we got sick leave and we got a reasonable salary.

Did you involve yourself in Trade Union activities? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 40. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Not really. I was always in a union. As a Mechanic I was in the Postal Electrical Union or something like that - it was a union anyway. And then after I was appointed as a professional Engineer I was in the Professional Engineers - Professional Officers' Association, that's right. The Union still call it the Professional Officers' Association.

END OF TAPE 3 SIDE A: TAPE 3 SIDE B

Tell me, when you were growing up, had you had anything to do with telephones?

With telephones? No, but with wireless I had. I was interested in wireless from an early time. So early that there were no commercial broadcasting stations at all. There were three amateur broadcasters around the place. One was the originator really of 5D N. They had a place out on Park Terrace somewhere out there. And there was another one out at Bedford Park. These people used to work as amateur transmitters - for short periods. Sunday morning for a couple of hours or Sunday afternoon or something like this. That's all the broadcasting that was available. I got into it and was able to make little crystal sets of my own. The picture that I had of me we were looking at.

From about what age?

Oh, I suppose - about eighteen I suppose.

After you joined the PMG?

Well round about the same time I think. After I joined the PMG, of course, it went on much more. We were then able to buy - actually buy a valve, you know, which was unheard of. This was - - -. Valves sort of came into use during the First World War. You know, they was more or less brought out and became useful then. And it was just after the First World War that I went into the PMG and soldiers coming back from the war - PMG men, you know - told us about it. Anyway we were able to buy a value and I remember the first one I bought it took me a week's wages, you know, to buy one valve (laughs) - and make an amplifier of it, and this was good. Several of us of my age were all keen on this and we used to experiment with things and make things up. You couldn't go in the shops and buy things. You had to make them yourself, you know - variable condensers, you know, for tuning. Used to make them up out of sheets - get sheets of aluminium and cut them to shape and bolt them together and even slide one tin inside of another to get the coupling. Very adaptable. (laughs) ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 41. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

In the photograph we were looking at you had a crystal set mounted on the wall. Did the family join in?

Oh yes, they were all as interested. I remember a cousin of mine staying there for a while, and I fooled him one night there. I wasn't getting anything - any signals - and I decided I'd make some. I had a couple of wires under the table and gave him the headphones and I just joined these together - tap, tap, tap. He reckoned he was getting signals. (laughter)

Of course the PMG Department was a huge one - Australia-wide as well as in South Australia. Did you have a sense of belonging to a big corporate identity?

Yes. It was of course - - -. We were able to transfer to any other State if we wished, if there was a vacancy. For promotion sometimes it was done, you know, if you'd see a suitable vacancy somewhere in another State, you could apply for it and so forth. Are we confining ourselves up to 1930 or - - -?

Yes, we've still got so much to talk about, I think we'd better.

Well up to that stage, well I suppose - no, I don't suppose we were - much had that view, except that on these night shifts that I mentioned to you - the one I used to work overnight testing the exchange cords - we did actually relay music from interstate. (laughs) You know, on a purely unofficial basis. With the phonograph in Sydney somewhere connecting through to Adelaide and listening to it here in Adelaide, you know, and this was sort of the first relaying of programmes, I reckon, that occurred in Australia. (laughs) But they weren't broadcasts, but we used to do this, you know at night, because the traffic would be light and you could talk to Melbourne, talk to Sydney and we did that sort of thing, you know - it was spare time.

Of course you went to Melbourne in 1925. Did you make lasting contacts over there?

Yes. Well, no really lasting, but I made a lot of friends at the time. But they - - -. Well, I sort of lost contact with them when I came back in the sense that well, they were working in an exchange at Ascot and I was here. No, I didn't really. But later on, when I became higher up in the business, I used to go over to Melbourne regularly, at least a couple of times a year, on con- ferences and things, and I met - made a lot of friends then and, you know, made lasting friendships there. A lot of them are mentioned in that book that you read.

Yes, I gather that the head man of it all was quite a character. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 42. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Yes, well, you know, when they were heads there was - - -. The Director Generals that are mentioned in there were all - - -. There were several of them, one after another, but I knew quite a few of those.

What about the Australian head, Sir Harry Percy Brown?

Harry Brown?

Did you know of him?

I knew of him but I never met him. No, I never met him. But he had a very profound effect on the Post Office development of course.

What about the local deputy?

In Adelaide here?

Yes.

Well, there were a number that I can recall. Well here, of course at that time, the Post Office - PMG Department - included the Mail Branch and all the postal arrangements - letters, and this sort of thing - as well as the engineering side. And the head man was a postal man, sort of. There were a number of these. They'd retire and somebody else'd come along. Well, none of them were outstanding characters from what I can recall. They were usual - came in as a telegraph messenger or something, and you know, through years and years and years they got up to the top. But on the technical side - on the engineering side - it was a different story, of course, because they were educated men. You know, trained - and many university trained - and all able to qualify as professional men.

Which ones do you remember in particular from the period we're talking about?

In the period we're talking about? Well that's going back a bit there. The period, I think, we're talking about, they were mainly men brought in from the UK - from the British Post Office. There were a number of engineers came out in the early days and there was one called Mr Gleed. He was Superintend- ing Engineer here. It would be back about that period. Oh, there was probably a dozen in that time. Usually they were only there for several years because they were near their retiring age. But I suppose the most - - Oh well, we're right outside of this period anyway, but there were some interest- ing characters.

Was your superior, Frank O'Grady, an Englishman? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 43. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

No, he was born in Australia. No, he was a South Australian by birth. But he was a very talented man I'd say, talented. He had the knack of appreciating, or realising conditions quickly. He was able to talk fluently and in simple language. He had the sort of humble touch, you know. There was no stand- offishness about him - anybody could talk to him. And he had great ability in every way. Although he was a South Australian, which didn't help in the headquarters side very much, nevertheless he made his mark and finished up the top man there.

Was South Australia something of a poor relation in that regards?

Oh well, no, I don't think so. The thing was that the head office - Central Office we call it - was in Melbourne, you see. There was a State branch in every State of course. Melbourne had the State branch and it also had the headquarters branch too - two separate organisations. There was a bit of rivalry. I think there was a fair bit of jealousy from interstate because of Frank O'Grady's ability and his general ability to get on and make his point, you know, his stand. He just couldn't be denied, you know, he had to be accepted and, as I say, he rose to the top. He became Transmission Engineer - well, as I told you, I joined him after I came back from Melbourne, and I stayed with him as an Engineer until, I think it was 1948. And he left the Department and went as Engineer in Chief at 'WRE, Weapons Research, out at Salisbury and I took his place there as Transmission Engineer then, in 1948 when he'd gone. From then he went to Melbourne to the Central Office headquarters, as Engineer in Chief, I think it was - yes. And subsequently he was appointed as Director General.

You've spoken before about the way the PMG Department was still Postal and Telecommunications as it were. Was there much contact between these two areas?

Oh, at the top level there was a bit in the sense that buildings were shared a lot. I mean, there was a Post Office, and there'd be a telephone exchange in the same building or the same room in some cases you see. Really we always felt, as technical people, that we didn't want them - didn't want to know them, you know. (laughs) They lost money all the time whereas we was making money all the time. So I was glad to see the thing change and separated into the two separate corn missions.

Was there, even from the early days, something of a sense of superiority do you think, with your area? ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 44. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Yes, I think so, yes. They were the Post Office boys, you know, the telegraph messengers and so forth. (laughs) Perhaps Pd better not say any more.

Of course there was one rather interesting occurrence to the Deputy Head in South Australia in 1927 when Mason was shot at. Do you remember that occasion?

Oh, yes. Yes I do, yes I remember that. He was shot at and the senior clerk was also wounded at the same time - Mr Doble I think his name was. Yes, I remember that. I was there. I wasn't there, but, I mean, I was in the building somewhere.

It must have created a bit of a stir. Let's just briefly now talk about other aspects of your life until 1930. You married in 1928 - is that right?

That's right.

What was the date?

The date was the twenty-first of April 1928.

Had you been living with your mother until that time?

Yes, I was living with mother over at Richmond up to that time.

Were you still providing her with part of your weekly income?

Oh yes.

What sort of percentage of your income did you pay your mother?

I can't recall what percentage it was. [interruption]

We were talking about your life in your mother's home until your marriage. We were talking about perhaps how much board you would have been paying at that time.

Yes, well I honestly can't remember, but it was a fairly substantial amount. And even after I was married, of course, for the first twelve months after we were married we lived over at the home in one of the spare rooms while this house was being built. Built this in 1930. Then we moved over here. Of course after we moved over here, of course, I kept on supporting my mother.

Was she entirely dependent upon you?

Well my brother - young brother - of course he built on one of the blocks over there, and he still lives there - because he was more or less living next door to her. He, of course, would have contributed. My sister - I don't know really whether she contributed money or not. I'm sure she probably did. Anyway, you know, we looked after her generally and she was quite comfortable. She had her wireless set and her own home. We contributed what we could. It was fairly generous. ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 45. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

How would your pastimes have changed after you started working?

Well after I started working I joined the Postal Electricians' Cricket Club and we used to play on the South Parklands there on Saturday afternoons. We used to go down there after work once a week, I suppose, for a practice there, and I used to enjoy this. I also played cricket for the United Suburban Cricket Club and we used to play on the West Parklands down near the Adelaide Railway Station, all around there, where they - near where the Port Road runs down through the Parklands. Played cricket there. Played tennis a bit. This would have been up to the thirty years. Oh, I played golf afterwards and I continue to play golf.

Did you make new friends from work?

Yes. Quite a lot of nice chaps. There was a lot of, you know, very fine chaps in the Department, and we got on pretty well. Perhaps not socially, you know, but I had a lot of good friends in the Department.

Where did you meet your future wife?

Well, I met her - - -. She had a sister - and she has a sister, still alive - and she had a boyfriend and I was invited to join them on a picnic, I think it was, somewhere or other. And Maisie came along and we got acquainted like that. This was before I went to Victoria - be about 1924 I suppose. She lived down here at South Plympton and I lived at Richmond. I used to travel down to see her by the old train that used to run down here, you know. So we got engaged and married.

What was your wife's maiden name?

Blight.

And is she about your age?

Yes, she's about my age. Winifred May Blight.

It was a fairly long courtship - about four years was it?

Yes, it'd be about that, yes.

Was there a particular reason for that?

I don't really know. I think that probably the reason probably was that I was very busy, sort of qualifying myself in the Department - passing exams and things, studying. I was studying particularly much - that's right - that I rarely got out to enjoy myself like other fellers did. I was studying, you know. And even after we were married, after we came over here and got married, I was ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 46. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

still studying quite a lot. I think that's probably, you know, the main thing, that I was keen to do what I had to do and get really established.

How did your mother feel about your fiance?

Oh she liked her very much. Yes, there was never any trouble there and, as I say, we stayed over there for twelve months after we were married, and Maisie and my mother got on extremely well together. Maisie often mentions now that, you know, how well they did get on.

What was your wife's family's background?

They were - - -. They came from Clare. Maisie was born in Clare and the family was a fairly big family at Clare and they ran a bakery at Clare - a bakery and also, was it a grocer's shop as well? But they had a bakery, I know. There was a fairly big family. Her father had brothers there and one of the brothers was a - I think he was a Methodist minister, I think, or a minister of some sort. Quite a nice family. Anyway, they came down - Maisie and her parents came down to Plympton, South Plympton - when she was about sixteen or so I think. She got a job at John Martin's. She was working at John Martin's up to the time she got married. She was in the Crockery Department.

And you had three children, is that right?

Yes.

Can you tell me their names and when they were born?

Yes the eldest son is Kenneth Graham and was on the fifteenth of October 1930 and the second son, Alan, was born on the fifth of November 1933 and my daughter Helen was born on the twenty-second of April 1937.

What sort of work have your children gone into?

Graham went into the PMG as I did, as a Technician. Alan went to the uni- versity and qualified as a Bachelor of Engineering and he has been with Mitsubishi as a Senior Engineer down there for a good number of years now. He did spend some time with the Weapons Research people out at Salisbury and then he was with a consulting engineer firm too for some several years I think. But he's been mainly with Mitsubishi. And then Helen married Glen Chittleborough - went from a long name to a much longer one. (laughter) She lives up at Belair and she was two boys and a girl. Alan has two boys and two girls, and Graham has one boy and one girl. Helen's husband is a Senior Lecturer at - - -. He was at the Teachers' Training College in town for some ATB/10/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 47. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

time, but now he's down at - what do they call them, at the big school down at - -

One of the Colleges of Advanced Education is it?

Yes, one of those. He lectures down there in science - chemical science I think mainly. Either there or out at Salisbury. He'd spend some of his time at both places.

Just in the last few minutes, can you tell me about your career developments up until your retirement?

Yes, well, after 1930, as I say, I was appointed as an Engineer in 1935 and I was engaged mainly on long distance corn munications up till the outbreak of war, and of course right through the war. From 1941, 1942, 1943, we were engaged as a Department on improving - increasing the communications from Darwin to south for the Army and the Airforce and Navy up there and that was a very, very busy time. I was up there for months on end in each of those years and in that time we had to rebuild the whole route. We had to build new repeater stations quickly and install this carrier telephone equipment that I mentioned. And we had to scrounge it from here, there and everywhere because it was all imported at that time and we had to pull it out from some places where it wasn't that important and put it in up there. So I was sort of Project Engineer.

I spent a lot of time up there and I only just got out of Darwin two days ahead of the bombing up there. I had flown up there on an inspection tour to fly to Darwin and then work my way south inspecting all the offices as I went back. I had three or four days in Darwin. In the same plane two young tele- phonist girls went up in the same plane to me. They volunteered to work up there as telephonists although the place had been evacuated. About a week later they were both dead - killed.

What about after the war, what did your work involve?

Well after the war - - -. During the war I was promoted to Divisional Engineer which is a big jump ahead. I was still Transmission Engineer. I had control of all long line work and also the broacasting - national broadcast- ing. This was '48. Then I was promoted as a Supervising Engineer - that was another step ahead. Then there was a reorganisation of the Department and a new branch was brought in - a planning branch, an engineering planning branch - and I was appointed as Supervising Engineer in charge of it. And I did all the - - -. My job was to do all the forecasting of developments of the network by having survey men out surveying - going down streets deciding ATB/I0/129-10 Mr A.E. RETALLACK 48. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

how many houses in the street were likely to have telephones in eight years' time and so on. Oh, provision of new buildings, new telephone exchanges and all that sort of thing.

Then I'd go over to - - -. Had to design a works programme. There were three year programmes and eight year programmes, and go over twice a year to Melbourne to - particularly just before the budget - to, you know, ask for as much money as we could get hold of. And they were rather interesting times.

Then I was promoted. The job was reclassified to a higher position of Superintending Engineer and I finished the last [eight or ten years as Super- intending Engineer. I retired in 1969.] ATB/10/129-10i Mr A.E. RETALLACK 49. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

INDEX

Notes to the Index Users of this Index should note that in many instances the particular word used for the index heading will not be found in the text. The conversational vocabularies of most people do not correspond to the Library of Congress subject headings which have, in the main, been adhered to in the construction of this index. Users are also directed to the main card index to the 'S.A. Speaks' project. Abbreviations P8510A-D Photographs in File 8510 passim 'in various parts' Family names Rather than index names of all family members and relatives mentioned in each interview, entries are included that indicate surnames (including women's maiden names) of at least the Interviewee's father and mother, and spouse, when applicable. Other relatives are indexed if significant mention is made of them.

ABC see Australian Broadcasting Death, 11 Com mission Dreyfus, Louis & Co, 15,32,33-4 Adelaide (Corporation area) Dwellings, 11-3 —Amusements, 19 Education—Parental attitudes, 26 Adelaide Technical Highschool, 31 Education, Primary, 21,29-30; P8510B Alfalfa, 18 Education, Secondary —School of Australian Broadcasting Commission, Mines, 31 38-9 Electric lighting, 12 Backyards, 13-8 Emigration and immigration Baptist Church —Richmond, 22,24,33 —Cornish, 6 Bicycles, 28,35 — Welsh, 4 Blight, Winifred May see Retallack, Employment, Means of gaining, 33 Winifred —Role of fathers, 30 Blind, 5 European War, 1914-1918 — War work Board, Payment of, 44 — Children, 30 Boarders, 16-7 Family recreation, 11,23,24 Boer War see South African War Fathers and sons, 14 Books and reading, 26-7 Food— Home produce, 13-8 Boring, 13-4 Fowls, 14,17 Boulder City, Western Australia, 1,17; Fruit — Marketing, 13,14 P8510A Gilbert and Sullivan, 19,29 Boxthorns, 13 Gold miners Boy Scouts, 19-20; P8510C — South Africa, 7 Burra, 6 — Victoria, 4 Butter _Backyard produce, 14 — Western Australia, 1; P8510A Cards, 23,26 Grandparents, 5-6,10,13 Carriers, 11 Gunbower, Victoria, 1,5 Castlemaine, Victoria, 4,5 Hancock, Clara see Retallack, Clara Children—Amusements, 28,40-1; Hedges, 13 P8510C Holidays, 27 Children's chores, 13,16 Home economics, 14,16,32 Chrystal sets (Radio), 40-1 Horses, 15 Church attendance, 23-4 House construction, 12 Clerks, 32,33-4 Husband and wife—Separation, 7 Compulsory military training see Hygiene, 28 Military service, Compulsory Income from backyard produce, 14,17 Copper miners —Burra, 6 Job satisfaction, 37 Cornish, 6 Kalgoorlie, 1; P8510A Courtship, 44 Kerosene containers, Uses of, 15,17 Cows, 14,15 Kitty Coola, 8 Cricket, 44 Labor Party, 26 Darwin, 47 Lauder, Harry, 19 ATB/10/129-10i Mr A.E. RETALLACK 50. 'S.A. SPEAKS' 8510

Leaving school, 32 Servants, 17 Lucerne (Plant) see Alfalfa Singing, 11,23 Methodists—Richmond, 23 Sleeping arrangements, 12 Migration, Internal, 8 Smoking, 25 Military service, Compulsory, 20-2 South Africa, 1,7 Military training camps, 11 South African War, 1899-1902, 1,21,24 Milk supply —Backyard produce, 14,15 Sunday, 25 Miners, 1-7 Swine, 18 Moonta, 1,3,6,8-10,23,29 Teachers, 29 Moonta Mines—Schools, 3,9-10 Technical education, 31,38 Mothers and sons, 44 Telephone Office employees see Clerks — Apparatus and supplies, 36,37; O'Grady, Frank, 36,42-3 P8510D Oral tradition—Family, 1,4 — Employees; see also Telephone PMG see Post Office, Telephone and —Vocational guidance; Trade Telegraph Department unions—Telephone workers; Pennsylvania, USA, 4 Wages—Telephone workers; Piano, 11,23 34-48 passim; P8510D Pigs see Swine — Vocational guidance, 38 Political participation, 26 Telephone exchanges see Telephone Poor, 14 stations Pork industry and trade, 18 Telephone operators, 35 Port Noarlunga, 28 Telephone stations, 36,37; P8510D Post Office, Telephone and Telegraph Temperance, 25 Department, 32-48 passim; see also Theatre Royal, 19 Postal service; Telephone Trade unions—Telephone workers; — Inter-departmental relations, 42, 38-9 43-4 Transportation to work, 35 Postal service, 42 Turkeys, 17 Preaching, Lay, 24 Vegetable gardening, 15; P85 10B Radio, 38-9,40 Victoria—Gold miners, 4 Rechabites, 29 Wages Religion— Denomination, Choice of, — Office boys, 32 23 — Telephone workers, 39 Restaurants, lunchrooms, etc, 1,17 Water-supply, Domestic, 12,13-4 Retallack, Albert Ernest (1876-1918), Wells, 13-4 1-2,3,7,8,11,13-4,26,30; P8510A Welsh, 3,4 Retallack, Albert Ernest (1903-), 8510 Western Australia—Gold miners, 1; passim; P8510B,C,D P8510A Retallack, Clara, 2,3,7,8,14,17-8,44 Wheat trade, 33-4 Retallack, Winifred May, 44,45-6 Widows, 14,16,44 Richmond, 11-32 passim Woman's Christian Temperance Union, — Churches, 23 25 — Schools, 21,29-30; P8510B Women's work (Paid, at home), 14 Sabbath, 25 Women's work (Paid, outside the home), Saturday, 19 1,46 School attendance, 3 World War, 1939-1945, 47 Schoolchildren—Clothing, P8510B Youth—Employment, 32 School of Mines, 31,32