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Vol. 676 Wednesday, No. 2 25 February 2009 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Wednesday, 25 February 2009. Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 381 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 388 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 32 ……………… 399 Order of Business ……………………………… 400 Treaty of Amsterdam: Motions ………………………… 411 Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2009: Committee Stage ………… 412 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Priority Questions …………………………… 422 Other Questions …………………………… 434 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 444 Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2009: Committee Stage (resumed) … … 445 Private Members’ Business (resumed) Banking System: Motion …………………………… 483 Business of Da´il……………………………… 507 Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2009: Committee Stage (resumed) and Remaining Stages ………………… 507 Adjournment Debate Tax Code ………………………………… 534 Health Services ……………………………… 536 Public Transport ……………………………… 538 School Staffing ……………………………… 539 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 543 DA´ IL E´ IREANN ———— De´ Ce´adaoin, 25 Feabhra 2009. Wednesday, 25 February 2009. ———— Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m. ———— Paidir. Prayer. ———— Leaders’ Questions. Deputy Enda Kenny: Yesterday, the Fine Gael Party put forward a series of proposals to deal with the regulatory authorities and financial institutions in a constructive fashion and spirit of bipartisanship. I was disappointed but not surprised at the reaction of the Government. Be that as it may, the reputation of the country is at rock bottom and our international credibility is in shreds. This will not change unless decisive Government action is taken, which will not be easy for anybody given a deficit of \20 billion and increasing negative growth. This morning, the Ta´naiste, who is deputy leader of the Government and a senior economics Minister, said it is important not to talk ourselves into a deeper crisis. It is equally important that we do not talk ourselves into fantasy land. I listened in some astonishment to her engage in a wilful example of self-denial about the true state of the economy. She said Ministers, including, I presume, Ministers of State, are working very hard to save every cent. She said the decision on saving \2 billion had been taken, that was it for this year and we will move on to collecting \4 billion next year. She also said the pension levy was fair, equitable and not selec- tive, there was no need for further cutbacks this year and the public finances were under control. As Head of Government, does the Taoiseach accept that the Ta´naiste was speaking on his and his Government’s behalf? Does he also accept that the public finances are under control? The Taoiseach: Bringing stability to our public finances is a huge, ongoing challenge. It is a misrepresentation of what the Ta´naiste said to suggest that all our work is done either for this or future years. This is an ongoing situation which is evolving all the time. It will require continuing adjustment by Government to take whatever decisions are necessary to keep our public finances in a stable position going forward from a very difficult position. Public finance spending, fiscal policy, bank capitalisation and maintaining monetary stability are interlinked objectives, all of which must be supported. While the Deputy would claim to be in support of a recapitalisation policy in the banking system, he could not find his way to supporting the recapitalisation programme which was brought to the House. A Deputy: The Government refused to give us the full picture. The Taoiseach: We have to recognise that everything is linked and interdependent. We cannot bring order to our public finances unless we continue with the fiscal consolidation strategy we have only begun. We have said clearly that the \2 billion that was required, which 381 Leaders’ 25 February 2009. Questions [The Taoiseach.] is consistent with the framework agreed with the social partners, was a necessary first step in terms of its benefits and the message it sent internationally. The answer to the Deputy’s question is simple. The Government brought forward measures to control spending last year and keep it within the 2008 allocations. We also brought forward an early budget to show the seriousness of our intent and raised \2 billion in 2009 terms as a result of these budgetary measures. We have brought serious control into the public finance position in terms of the rate of growth of public expenditure. As outlined, the Government also brought forward a \2 billion programme in the first two months of this year. This is being discussed in the legislation before the House this week as a necessary first step in a range of measures designed to bring stabilisation to our public finances over the coming years. That is our position and we will have to continue to assess and take decisions in line with those measures on an ongoing basis because we know the situation is not static. Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: It clearly does not matter what the Ta´naiste says. Deputy Enda Kenny: I am not deaf. Two hours ago, I heard the Ta´naiste, who is sitting beside the Taoiseach, tell the Irish people the public finances were “under control”. Yesterday, I heard the Minister for Finance say there were stresses in the banking system. If the Minister for Finance is directly contradicting the Ta´naiste, we are obviously not being told the full truth. The reason the Government has not been able to fix the jobs crisis is that it has not been able to fix the banking crisis. The reason it has not been able to fix the banking crisis is that action has not been taken at Government level to repair the economy. What the world outside wants to hear is that the Government is taking decisive action and has three and five year plans to ensure people here understand the scale of the problem and people abroad appreciate that Ireland is taking action to restore financial credibility to our system. The Ta´naiste stated this morning that every Minister is spending a great deal of time in his or her Department trying to save every cent. It cost \190,000 to send the Minister for Health and Children, who is seated beside the Ta´naiste, to the Superbowl, while \51 million has been spent on spin doctors in the Health Service Executive and \16,000 is spent each month on private advisers to the head of the HSE. Today it has been announced that a home for blind people in Drumcondra will be closed down. In addition, the HSE is deciding to cut \1 billion from its budget and we have not yet reached the end of February. Despite this, the Ta´naiste tells us that we have reached the end of the cutbacks for this year and the pain has been taken. The Minister for Finance says there are stresses in the banking system while the Ta´naiste says the public finances are under control. I will put two suggestions to the Taoiseach. Is he prepared to instruct the National Treasury Management Agency today to call all the banks together to revise strategy in view of the stresses the Minister for Finance has spoken about and the difficulties we are having with reputational damage abroad? It is about time we faced up to the fact that what the Government has done so far has been selective, unfair and not comprehensive. The Government should scrap the budget it introduced in October—— Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: It is gone already. Deputy Enda Kenny: ——and face up to introducing a new budget for 2009 to provide some credibility by putting a broad, fair and comprehensive plan in place to move our economy forward. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Hear, hear. 382 Leaders’ 25 February 2009. Questions Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: That is what we want. Deputy Enda Kenny: I make those two suggestions to the Taoiseach in a spirit of biparti- sanship, if we are serious about saving our nation. Deputies: Hear, hear. The Taoiseach: Deputy Kenny proposes that I scrap the budget that raised \2 billion in taxes. Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: It is scrapped already. The Taoiseach: The Deputy said we should scrap the budget, and before that he said our response was inadequate. He cannot have it every way. The bottom line is this. I want to cut through the nonsense. We have a gap in our public finances of more than \17 billion as things stand. We have indicated the scale of the adjustment that needs to be made—— Deputy Enda Kenny: And the Government is not dealing with it. The Taoiseach: ——over the next few years in regard to taxation and expenditure. Deputy Enda Kenny: It is tinkering around. The Taoiseach: We have begun the process by introducing savings of \2 billion. We have also indicated through the McCarthy committee, which is examining all areas of public expendi- ture, and the Commission on Taxation—— Deputy Enda Kenny: The Taoiseach said it was under control. The Taoiseach: ——that all aspects of taxation will need to be considered. We have agreed a framework with the social partners which outlines the areas we need to address. (Interruptions). Deputy Enda Kenny: Unfair. The Taoiseach: We do not have a basis for re-engagement at the moment but we are clearly making the point that the Government must get on with governing the country. We want to see people get behind us in a national effort. Deputy Enda Kenny: It is not fair. The Taoiseach: What we have to do is to cut through the nonsense and face up to the fact that it is only through working together that we can implement the necessary measures.