will happen to the Church, and we will greater—genuine conversations about have no resources to control the out- hard questions, which do not degen- come. While some commentators and erate into apologetics, politicking, and participants in the conference have ex- character defamation. That hope is per- pressed the desire only to see a peace- haps for now too great, considering the ful Council come to pass, in the hope restriction of the 1976 agenda. So what © 2015 The Wheel. that its mere occurrence will herald a are we to make of next year’s Council? May be distributed for renewal of Orthodox witness in the I shall leave the last word to Metropoli- noncommercial use. modern world, I hold out for the Holy tan Kallistos: “Don’t expect too much— www.wheeljournal.com Spirit to bring about something far if it happens . .” Gregory Tucker is a PhD candidate at Fordham University. He re- ceived his BA and MSt from the University of Oxford and his MA from St Vladimir’s Orthodox Theological Seminary. His research in- terests lie in the areas of Patristic and Byzantine theology and liturgy. He has recently completed a survey of the history and theology of the Sixth Ecumenical Council (Orbis, forthcoming 2016). STATE OF AFFAIRS Religion and Politics in Russia: an Insider’s View Xenia Loutchenko interviewed by Christopher Stroop The prominent Russian journalist and state of Russia’s predominant Church. commentator on religion and society The author of Mothers: Priest’s Wives Xenia Loutchenko and I sat down over on Themselves and Their Lives (Ma- coffee at a Moscow cafe on May 8, 2015. tushki: Zheny sviashchennikov o zhizni i During our interview, we discussed the sebe, [Nikeia: 2015]), Loutchenko is a reg- meaning of Christian politics; religion ular contributor to the independent Or- and politics in Putin’s Russia; her work thodox Christian media outlet Pravmir unpacking connections between Amer- (Orthodox World), which publishes a lim- ican and Russian social conservatives, ited quantity of its material in English, including a former Fox News employee’s and a contributor to liberal Russian news work on a far right Russian Christian outlets such as Colta. I have translated the media project; and what she would like interview from Russian and edited it for American audiences to know about the length and clarity. 30 Christopher Stroop: Xenia, thank you CS: Is there such a thing as liberal Or- for agreeing to this interview. I cer- thodox Christianity in Russia, and do tainly want to talk about our mutual you consider yourself a liberal Ortho- interest in the collaborative efforts dox Christian? of ideologically oriented American and Russian religious conservatives, XL: You know, it’s a strange time, be- a topic we’ve both written about, but cause now there’s this impulse for ev- first I’d just like to invite you to say eryone to divide themselves into two a bit about yourself and your career. camps, liberals and conservatives. But Why did you decide to write about re- liberalism, it seems to me, concerns ligion, and what are your current and one’s political views, whereas Christi- future plans? anity is about faith. These are distinct categories. I’m not a big fan of these Xenia Loutchenko: Why did I choose labels, but politically, within contem- to write about religion? Well, you porary Russian reality, I can of course could say that in part it was accidental. count myself among the liberals. It was the 1990s, when everything was very different here. The Church was CS: And within the Church, I suppose, also very different. I was an Orthodox it’s complicated. Christian, but not particularly active. I studied in the Journalism Faculty at XL: Well, if we get back to the original Lomonosov Moscow State University; meaning of the term, then all Chris- there was a study group dedicated to tians are liberals, because we have a religious journalism, but I only went to Gospel that proclaims freedom, free- a few of its individual seminars, which dom of choice, the dignity of the indi- were led by Fr. Georgy Chistyakov, a vidual. disciple of Fr. Alexander Men. I had an instructor named Maria Lukina—she CS: But nevertheless there are a lot taught specialized courses on religion of Christians who want to discipline and media. I started to write a course other people’s behavior. Are Chris- paper for her and got interested in tians really for the freedom of all? just finding out what was out there in terms of Orthodox Christian media, I XL: Well, in my understanding that’s interned for a television project, and I a perversion of the Gospel’s teach- just ended up going in this direction. ing. You can only control your own At a time before most people realized decisions. If we take the teaching the significance of the Internet, for a of the Savior to go into all the world while I became the sole academic ex- and preach the Gospel, etc., literally, pert on how the Russian Orthodox then that means you should tell peo- Church was utilizing new technology, ple about Christ, about choosing that although this is no longer the primary path, but not do things the other way focus of my work. I’m now more inter- around, first establish prohibitions, ested in people. I’ve ended up working and then say that’s Christ. on gender, although I didn’t originally plan to, and I continue to do work that CS: So you’re saying that religion and could be described as personal narra- politics should be completely separate tives, oral history. things? THE WHEEL 3 | Fall 2015 31 Russians and Americans in this re- spect actually go deeper into history than most people know. For example, Cole Parke of Political Research Asso- ciates has taken note of the influence of the Russian sociologist Pitirim Sorokin on the founder of the World Congress of Families, Allan Carlson. Parke also points out the influence of other Rus- sians on Carlson; the influence here is not one-sided. How would you assess the current situation? What have Rus- sian culture warriors borrowed from Americans? And what might you be able to say about influence in the other XL: No. But what’s called political Or- direction? thodoxy in Russia today is an absolute caricature and has nothing in common XL: In terms of connections, in the with normal politics; we don’t have early ‘90s, when the Russian anti-abor- normal political processes. This “battle tion movement began, there was heavy for traditional values” in Russia is con- American influence, our entire pro-life trived, it’s PR. discourse is connected with Amer- ica—we got films, materials, in Russian CS: So what is a genuine Christian translation. There was the Life Center, politics? What does that look like? associated with Fr. Maxim Obukhov— they started this whole program about XL: Well, people will participate in abortion, they worked with Protestant political processes in accordance with organizations. And then later, as this their convictions. Some European poli- whole rhetoric of traditional values ticians, also some from South America, gained popularity, the current head Catholics, they work for the passage of of Russian Railways, Vladimir Yaku- laws that support the poor, provide nin, he created the forum “Dialogue a social safety net for the have-nots. of Civilizations” [currently co-chaired They’re for a return to humaneness by the Packey J. Dee Professor in the in politics, wanting to make sure that Departments of Philosophy and Polit- first of all people’s needs are met, and ical Science at the University of Notre then we can talk about the interests of Dame, Fred Dallmayr – C.S.], which has the state, the interests of the nation, been taking place on Rhodes for more etc. That’s Christian politics. than ten years, where he gathers retired and active European and American CS: All right then, let’s go ahead and politicians and social actors. To use an talk a bit about Russian and Ameri- analogy, it’s sort of like a traditional- can religious conservatives. In the En- ist version of the Soviet exportation of glish-language press in recent years Communism. It’s a right-wing Interna- there’s been a lot of discussion of tional. I can’t say anything definitive the exporting or globalization of the about this, but there also seems to be American culture wars, that is, battles financial influence from the Russian for so-called “traditional” and “fam- side. Marine Le Pen received a loan ily” values. The connections between from Russia, for example. 32 CS: So the goal for these sorts of Rus- about patriotism, their children live sian initiatives is to influence Euro- in Europe. This is why the sanctions pean and American politics, yes? actually seriously bother them. They all get health care abroad. XL: Yes, and I see that in Europe it’s very successful. We shouldn’t under- CS: To get back to connections be- estimate this, because Putin is loved tween Russia and America, did you in Europe. Many Italians love him, for read Pat Buchanan’s article, “Whose example. There’s also a serious split in Side Is God on Now?” the contemporary Russian diaspora. A significant proportion is very pro-Rus- XL: Yes. I don’t systematically read sian, pro-Putin, but it seems that this everything in the Western press, but is partially connected with the overly Buchanan is well known, and I did zealous anti-Russian views of the glance through that piece.