LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 17th November, 1993 ______ Mr Speaker (The Hon. Kevin Richard Rozzoli) took the chair at 2.15 p.m. Mr Speaker offered the Prayer. DEPARTMENT OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Report Mr Speaker laid upon the table the report of the Department of the Legislative Assembly for the year ended 1993. Ordered to be printed. MATTER OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Mr Speaker advised the House that he had received from the honourable member for Riverstone notice of a matter of public importance, which would be set down for debate at the conclusion of formal business. MINISTRY Mr FAHEY: I wish to inform the House that in the absence of the Minister for Industrial Relations and Employment and Minister for the Status of Women I will answer questions that may be directed to her portfolio. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE ______ POLICE ADMINISTRATION Mr CARR: My question without notice is directed to the Premier. Have changes to police administration finally been forced on the Government by the Hon. Ted Pickering? Do the changes represent a vote of no confidence in the present Minister for Police? Mr FAHEY: The answers in brief are no and no. However, I take this opportunity to advise honourable members that in the past five and a half years this Government has undertaken enormous reform within the Police Service. A great deal of that reform was initiated by the former Minister for Police. Honourable members who recognise a fair thing would acknowledge that the matters brought forward in recent times by the Hon. Ted Pickering were brought forward out of one concern, and one concern only, which was to establish a better Police Service in this State and one in which the public had complete confidence. The former Minister undertook considerable work in that direction, and I am pleased that that work is being continued by the present Minister. In the past 14 months the Minister has established a number of initiatives which have improved the Police Service. The bottom line is this: the Government is interested in having a better Police Service tomorrow than we have today, which is considerably better than the Police Service we had yesterday. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Coogee to order. POLICE PROTECTION OF PAEDOPHILES Mrs GRUSOVIN: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Police and Minister for Emergency Services. Was Colin Fisk, the paedophile to whom the Government granted indemnity, last Sunday suspended from the witness protection program? Was this because he spoke to "A Current Affair" about police corruption and paedophile networks? Why was the safety of this witness jeopardised? Mr GRIFFITHS: Some matters need to be made very clear. As I said yesterday, I find any form of child abuse or police corruption totally abhorrent. Child abuse is the lowest form of human depravity. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Granville to order. Mr GRIFFITHS: Let there be no mistake about that. I make it very clear that the Government will never move away from its obligation to protect the young and innocent in our society. If the honourable member, or any other member in this House, has evidence of paedophilia that the police are not aware of - and I mean evidence - let the chatter in this House stop, let the evidence be laid on the table, and the police will deal with it appropriately. Later, Mr GRIFFITHS: Earlier the honourable member for Heffron asked me a question. I am advised that the person named by the honourable member has not been discharged from the witness protection program. However, a review of his status within the program is under way. That review is based on his allegedly breaching the clear terms upon which he was put under police protection. I am further advised that this matter will be assessed in the immediate future. It seems that three options are now available. First, he may be discharged from the program; second, he can continue under the current arrangements; and third, those arrangements may be altered. Again the honourable member for Heffron has it wrong, wrong, wrong. POLICE ADMINISTRATION REFORMS Mr KERR: I address my question without notice to the Minister for Police and Minister for Emergency Services. What is the state of the police administration reforms which were announced in April this year? Will the Minister advise the House? Page 5550 Mr GRIFFITHS: The Government's approach to its policing program is to be open about problems and press continually for improvement. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Hurstville to order. Mr GRIFFITHS: Those problems requiring immediate attention are being dealt with in a planned, methodical and effective way. Let there be no mistake about that. In answer to the question of the honourable member, I am pleased now to announce details of the fifth stage of the reform program now under way in the police portfolio. I have informed the House previously about the first four stages of the extensive reform and review program already undertaken. Some of those changes have required legislation which received bipartisan support in the Parliament. I am delighted to be able to inform the honourable member that the program of reform is continuing. Its fifth stage will pick up a number of issues raised before the Joint Select Committee upon Police Administration, and elsewhere. Following recent Cabinet discussion, it was decided that the justice committee would examine and report to Cabinet on a number of issues. The first of those matters involves the relationship between the Minister and the Commissioner of Police. The joint select committee examined this issue extensively and, among other things, expressed a strong view on the capacity of the Minister to direct the commissioner on operational matters. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Londonderry to order. Mr GRIFFITHS: The committee also examined other aspects of this most significant relationship in light of the difficulties that occurred prior to my appointment to this portfolio. The justice committee will examine the way in which those past difficulties have been addressed, as well as any other issues related to the Government's primary objective of ensuring accountability of the Police Service, through the Minister, to the Parliament. If there is any shadow of doubt, that will most certainly be removed. The justice committee will examine whether the internal affairs branch of the Police Service is able to operate effectively within the present structure. This branch bears the onerous and critically important responsibility of investigation of complaints against police officers. This branch undertakes the most important investigations, including most of the significant allegations of corruption. There have been suggestions that this unit, or the responsibilities given to it, should be placed outside the Police Service. Models exist in other jurisdictions which differ from the arrangements that prevail in New South Wales. The Police Association and the commissioner have for years been pushing for this method to come to fruition. I am sure that the previous Minister and previous Labor Government are fully aware of the association's comments. The justice committee will pay particular attention to the need for an independent police complaints authority, which would be completely separate from the Police Service and would have its own investigative resources. Independent examination of complaints against police by an authority of this kind - particularly those alleging corruption - may be the only way of satisfying the community's concern for a process free from perceived conflicts of interest. New South Wales has other bodies whose role in this area could be expanded - for example, the Crime Commission. The need for additional scrutiny of internal affairs investigations and functions will also be examined in detail. Matters dealt with by internal affairs are all notified to the Ombudsman, who oversights investigations and, as a result of amendments introduced by the Government in the last session of Parliament, can even take them over should he deem it appropriate. The Independent Commission Against Corruption is also informed of most internal affairs investigations because the initial allegations usually fall within the definition of corrupt conduct under the Independent Commission Against Corruption Act. Consideration will be given by the justice committee to formalising extensive formal and informal interaction on these matters between the Police Service, the ICAC, the Ombudsman and the Crime Commission. This might be achieved through the establishment of a permanent monitoring committee or some other means. The justice committee will examine these various alternatives and report its conclusions to the Cabinet. Other matters are also to be attended to. The third report of the joint select committee emphasised problems arising from the Police Service having to maintain custody of seized, illegal drugs. A committee has been established by the Attorney General to examine and report on how security of drugs in police custody might be improved. The Attorney General has ministerial responsibility for the Drugs (Misuse and Trafficking) Act and it is likely that changes to that Act will be recommended. The committee will be chaired by the Hon. Adrian Roden, Q.C., a former justice of the Supreme Court who has also served as an assistant commissioner with the ICAC. This committee was established following an approach by me on 3rd September to the Attorney General seeking a review of the law relating to the destruction of drugs. The Government's aims are to ensure absolute security in and accountability for the handling of seized, illegal substances from the time of seizure to the time of destruction; to provide sufficient methods of analysis and sampling of seized exhibits to ensure adequate evidence is available for the purposes of criminal proceedings; to afford a reasonable opportunity, where practicable, for any person charged or likely to be charged in connection with the seized substances to obtain an independent analysis; and, subject to the foregoing, to permit the destruction of seized, illegal substances at the earliest possible time.