first Session - Thirty-fourth legislature of the legislative Assembly of Manitoba STANDING COMMITTEE on STATUTORY REGULATI ONS and ORDERS 37 Elizabeth 11 Chairman Mr. H. Pankratz Constituency of La Verendrye VOL XXXVII No. 1 - 10 a.m., THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 1988. MG-8048 ISSN 0713-9527 Printed by the Office of the Queens Printer. Province of Manitoba MANITOBA lEGISlATIVE ASSEMBlY Thirty-Fourth Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation NAME CONSTITUENCY PARTY ALCOCK, Reg Osborne LIBERAL ANGUS, John St. Norbert LIBERAL .ASHTON, Sieve Thompson NDP BURREll, Parker Swan River PC C.ARR,James Fort Rouge LIBERAL C.ARST.AIRS,Sharon River Heights LIBERAL CHARLES, Gwen Selkirk LIBERAL CHEEMA, Gulzar Kildonan LIBERAL CHORNOPYSKI, William Burrows LIBERAL CONNERY, Edward Hon. Portage la Prairie PC COW.AN,Jay Churchill NDP CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose du Lac PC DERK.ACH,leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell PC DOER,Gary Concordia NDP DOWNEY,James Hon. Arthur PC DRIEDGER, .Aibert, Hon. Emerson PC DRIEDGER, Herold, l. Niakwa LIBERAL DUCH.ARME,Gerald, Hon. Riel PC EDW.ARDS,Paul St. James LIBERAL ENNS, Harry Lakeside PC ERNST, Jim, Hon. Charleswood PC EV.ANS,laurie Fort Garry LIBERAL EV.AN.S,leonard Brandon East NDP FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo PC FINDL.AY, Glen Hon. Virden PC G.AUDRY, Neil St. Boniface LIBERAL GlllESH.AMMER,Harold Minnedosa PC GRAY, Avis Ellice LIBERAL H.AMMOND,Gerrie Kirkfield Park PC HARAPI.AK, Harry The Pas NDP HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NDP HELWER, Edward R. Gimli PC HEMPHill, Maureen Logan NDP KOZ.AK, Richard, J. Transcona LIBERAL l.AMOUREUX,Kevin, M. lnkster LIBERAL M.AlOW.AY, Jim Elmwood NDP MANDRAKE, Ed Assiniboia LIBERAL M.ANNESS,Clay ton, Hon. Morris PC McCR.AE,James Hon. Brandon West PC MINENKO, Mark Seven Oaks LIBERAL MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. River East PC NEUFELD, Harold, Hon. Rossmere PC OLESON, Charlotte Hon. G!adstone PC ORCHARD, Donald Hon. Pembina PC P.ANKR.ATZ, Helmut La Verendrye PC P.ATTERSON, .AIIan Radisson LIBERAL PENNER, Jack, Hon. Rhineland PC PLOHMAN, John Dauphin NDP PRAZNIK, Darren Lac du Bonnet PC ROC.AN,Denis, Hon. Tu rtle Mountain PC ROCH, Gilles Springfield LIBERAL ROSE, Bob St. Vital LIBERAL STORIE, Jerry Flin Flon NDP T.AYLO R, Harold Wolseley LIBERAL URUSKI, Bill lnterlake NDP W.ASYLYCI.A-lEIS,Judy St. Johns NDP YEO, lva Sturgeon Creek LIBERAL LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON STATUTORY REGULATIONS AND ORDERS Thursday, October 6, 1988 TIME- 10 a.m. We have three Bills before us this morning in regard to Statutory Regulations. On my paper, they are listed LOCATION- Winnipeg, Manitoba as 4, 5 and 10. I believe we have representation on Bill 10. So, with the will of the committee, I would CHAIRMAN- Mr. Helmut Pankratz (La Verendrye) suggest that we move to Bill 10 first, is that agreed? (Agreed) ATTENDANCE- QUORUM - 6 BILL NO. 10-THE COURT OF Members of the Committee present: QUEEN'S BENCH ACT Hon. Messrs. McCrae, Manness, Mitchelson, Penner Mr. Chairman: We have one gentleman that would like Ms. Gray, Mr. Harapiak, Ms. Hemphill to appear before us on Bill No. 10, Dr. Jay Brolund. I Messrs. Lamoureux, Pankratz, Roch; Mrs. would like to ask him at this time to come forward, Yeo. please. APPEARING: Dr. Jay Brolund - The Psychological Dr. Jay Brolund: Thank you very much. Association of Manitoba Good morning. My name is Jay ·Brolund. I am vice­ president of the Psychological Association of Manitoba. MATTERS UNDER DISCUSSION: I am also speaking for Jim Newton, who is the president Bill No. 4- The Re-enacted Statutes of of the Association, who was unfortunately unable to Manitoa, 1988, Act; Loi sur les Lois readoptees be here today. He was out of town. lt was his turn to du Manitoba de 1988 do this. Bill No. 5-The Statute Re-enactment Act, First of all, I would like to thank the committee for 1988; Loi de 1988 sur la readoption de lois. taking the opportunity for aHowing us to present our Bill No. 10-The Court of Queen's Bench Act; views and concerns as to the proposed changes to Loi sur la Cour du Banc de la Reine The Queen's Bench Act. I will be very brief in my comments and comment only specifically as to how it might affect our association. By way of background, I would like to say that the Psychological Association of Manitoba is the Clerk of CommiHees, Ms. Bonnie Greschuk: The organization given the mandate to govern and regulate committee will please come to order. We must elect a the practice of psychologists in the province, pursuant chairman for the committee responsible for Statutory to The -psychologists Registration Act. The Act provides Regulations and Orders. Are there any nominations? that, save for certain exceptions, only members of the association may hold themselves out and practice as Hon. James McCrae (Attorney-General): Madam psychologists in the province. In order to become a Clerk, I would move the name of Helmut Pankratz, the member, one must meet academic and training Honourable Member for La Verendrye, for chairman examinations and experiential qualifications which are of this committee. set forth in the Act and the by-laws of the association. * (1010) Madam Clerk: Are there any other nominations? Of importance today is the fact that The Psychologists Mr. McCrae: I move that nominations cease. Registration Act provides for "registration" of members, but not for "licensing." The essential difference between Madam Clerk: Mr. Pankratz, please take the Chair. registration and licensing involves the frequency with which a member of a given profession is issued the credential required to practice. Under the licensing * (1005) system, a license is issued every year to an individual who qualifies and pays appropriate dues. Under the Mr. Chairman, Helmut Pankratz: Good morning. We registration system, once an individual has qualified will call this meeting to order. The way this appointment and become registered, the person retains his or her as becoming chairman, I sort of am used to that from standing provided appropriate dues and other criteria the municipal level; that is the way it is being done. I are met. do not know how democratic it is, but anyhow, I am sure, with a little bit of assistance, we will struggle This brief background is necessary to understand through this one. our concern with one section of The Queen's Bench 1 Thursday, October 6, 1988 Act as proposed, namely Section 63. The proposed Dr. Brolund: My understanding was that there is section reads as follows: support for the change. "Health Care Practitioner" Mr. Chairman: Any other Members who have any Section 63(1). In this Section, "health care question or concerns that they would like to raise? practitioner" means a person licensed to practice in the health sciences field, whether in Manitoba I want to thank you for making your presentation. or elsewhere." Dr. Brolund: Thank you very much. 1 refer also to Section 63(2), physical or mental examination: Mr. Chairman: Thank you. "Where the physical or mental condition of a party is in question, the court, on motion, may * (1015) order the party to undergo a physical or mental examination by one or more health care Mr. McCrae: Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that because practitioners." I have some more lengthier comments to make on Bills 4 and 5 later that we deal with Bill 10 first and then The Psychological Association has a concern rising deal with Bills 4 and 5 afterward. from the wording of the definition of "health care practitioner." The definition appears to limit the Mr. Chairman: Yes, if it is the will of the committee. application of this Section and in so doing may only (Agreed) allow the court to appoint "licensed" health care practitioners to conduct examinations. As noted, Since all presentations have been made and heard � psychologists are "registered" pursuant to the Act and in regard to Bill No. 10, The Court of Queen's Bench � are not "licensed" and therefore may not be appointed Act, then is it the will of this committee to go clause by the Court to provide such a service. by clause or page by page? We will go clause by clause. We understand that the intention of this Section was Thank you. to include professionals such as psychologists, given their increasing role in the provision of mental health Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Finance): Mr. care in the province and in the provision of services Chairman, is it essential that we call out every clause in civil, criminal, child and family law. even though I believe the Attorney-General (Mr. McCrae) is bringing in a message? So a simple solution to the. association's concern would be the addition of the words "or registered" Mr. Chairman: Is it the will of the committee that we after the word "licensed" in this Section. go page by page? (Agreed) Pages 3 to 7, inclusive, We support the clarification brought by the Act as were each read and passed. to who are health care practitioners in the province. If we are going too speedy anybody, please interject. We believe that the addition of the words "or registered" Pages 8 to 16, inclusive, were each read and passed. in subsection 63(1) will ensure that psychologists in Manitoba will retain the opportunity to provide services Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (lnkster): If it is the will of the to the court as they are currently provided. committee, I would just as soon start right from page Thank you for your attention and consideration to 28 if there is no objection and just pass the rest.