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COPYRIGHT LAW The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) governs the making of photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. Under certain conditions specified in the law, libraries and archives are authorized to furnish a photocopy or other reproduction. One of these specified conditions is that the photocopy or reproduction is not to be used for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research. If a user makes a request for, or later uses, a photocopy or reproduction for purposes in excess of "fair use," that user may be liable for copyright infringement. This institution reserves the right to refuse to accept a copying order if, in its judgement, fulfillment of the order would involve violation of copyright law. RESTRICTIONS None LITERARY RIGHTS AND QUOTATION This manuscript is hereby made available for research purposes only. All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publication, are reserved to the University Library of the University of California, Los Angeles. No part of the manuscript may be quoted for publication without the written permission of the University Librarian of the University of California, Los Angeles. LOS ANGELES ART COMMUNITY: GROUP PORTRAIT This interview is one of a series, entitled "Los Angeles Art Community: Group Portrait," funded by the National Endowment for the Humanities and conducted from July 1, 1975 to March 31, 1977 by the UCLA Oral History Program. The project was directed jointly by Page Ackerman, University Librarian, and Gerald Nordland, Director UCLA Art Galleries, and administered by Bernard Galm, Director, Oral History Program. After selection of interview candidates and interviewers, the Program assumed responsibility for the conduct of all interviews and their processing. — CONTENTS Introduction viii Interview History xiii TAPE NUMBER: I, Side One (December 29, 1975) 1 Childhood in Budapest, Hungary--Arr ives in Evanston, Illinois, at age of 13--An affinity for nonf igurative des ign--Moves to Los Angeles-- Apprentice animator at Charles Mintz Studio-- Interest in movement and rhythm grows out of early exposure to ballet--Kandinsky exhibit--Work at Walt Disney Studios-- Fantasia — Professional conflicts — A lack of sympathy for experimentation at Disney. TAPE NUMBER:' I, Side Two (December 29, 1975) 25 Recollections of Walt Disney--Disney as an instinctive entertainer--Limits of Disney's approach to animation--Work at the Air Force animation unit--Herb Klynn, an exceptional talent in graphic art3--United Productions of America (UPA) —More on the limits of Disney's approach to animation--Personalities are the merchandise of Hollywood TAPE NUMBER: II, Video Session (January 23, 1976) 45 Los Angeles' shortcomings as an art center Comparisons with New York--More on work on Fantasia- -Discusses his drawings for Fantasia- - Rico Lebrun's work at Disney--Animators in the 1950s--Exhibits of animators' paintings — The hard-edge geometrical style of Engel's paintings —A desire to translate qualities of simplicity and directness from painting into film— Film as a developing art form— More on work at UPA--An emphasis on flat, two-dimensional design at UPA—The UPA look influenced by contemporary painters — Raoul Dufy and the divorced line — The use of color as aspect of dramatic intent--Economy of gesture in UPA films —Robert Cannon, the greatest animator in the business. 1 I s — TAPE NUMBER: III, Side One (May 19, 1976) 79 On present position as chairman of film graphics department at California Institute of the Arts (Cal Arts) — Interrelationship of film and other art forms at Cal Arts — Early history of Cal Arts Future trends in the arts--The live-action camera department at Cal Arts--Cal Arts as a reservoir of young talent--A positive working environment at Cal Arts. TAPE NUMBER: IV, Side One (December 16, 1977) 105 Viewing Engel's experimental animation films-- Train Landscape , a painterly approach to f ilmmaking--Engel ' s methods of conception and execution- -Accident — Shapes and Gesture s, the influence of dance- - Land scape , a color-field painting in time- -Wet Paint--Fragments . TAPE NUMBER: IV, Side Two (December 16, 1977) 121 — More on Fragments Rumble- -Engel ' s working methods--v7orki ng through instincts rather than formulas- -Swan —The hazards of the computer film-- Three Arctic Flowers- -Engel ' s work with computer graph ics--Coaraze_, a live-action film--Use of still photography in Coaraze- - Coara2e wins Prix Vigo and numerous other awards--No commercial distributor opts to handle Coaraze . TAPE NUMBER: V, Side One (December 22, 1977) 138 Oskar Fischinger--Fischinger ' s isolation within the Disney Studios--Los Angeles avant-garde painters and animators in 1940s--Fischinger ' last years at Disney--More on Engel's teaching at Cal Arts — Disney trustees and the founding of Cal Arts--The evolution and success of the Cal Arts animation program--Engel ' s teaching methods. TAPE NUMBER: V, Side Two (December 22, 1977) 163 More on teaching at Cal Arts--Student interaction at Cal Arts--Teaching approaches--Kathy Rose, Dennis Pies, and Adam Beckett--On establishing rapport with students--Women in animation. VI — —————s —s TAPE NUMBER: VI, Side One (December 30, 1977) 191 Preparation for work on live-action films The Ivory Knife , capturing the environment of the painter Paul Jenkins--Colla'oorat ion with Irving Bazilon on film score--Interaction with Jenkins The Torch and the Torso- -Working with Miguel Berrocal--Structural and thematic relations between drama and painting- -Mew York 100 , the work of John Hultberg Light Motion — Max Bill- - Technical considerations in live-action film-- June Wayne and the Tamarind workshop--Engel ' introduction to li thography--Working environment at Tamarind. TAPE NUMBER: VI, Side Two (December 30, 1977) 219 More on June Wayne and Tamarind V7orkshop The Look of a Lithographer- -Ken Tyler and Gemini Editions, Ltd. --Robert Rauschenberg , Jasper Johns, Claes Oldenburg, and Frank Stella work at Gemini--Cirrus Editions--Engel ' s lithographic work--Engel on the status of film as an art form--Is film a "medium of consequence"? TAPE NUMBER: VII, Side One (February 16, 1978) 246 Childhood interest in abstraction — Family background — First encounters with the work of Kandinsky— Engel's working methods--Connect ions between the mediums in which Engel works--Sngel ' relations with dealers: Paul Kantor, Esther Robles, Felix Landau, and Irving Blum—More on limits of Los Angeles as an art center Comparisons with New York. TAPE NUMBER: VII, Side Two, (April 1, 1978) .....273 More on interest in abstraction— The "Four Abstract Classicists" show at Los Angeles County Museum--A developmental survey of the phases of Engel's artistic career--Establishing depth with color— The straight line — Engel's love of urban life--Living and working in Los Angeles Animation, painting, lithography, and film Future directions for Engel — Future trends for young artists and filmmakers — The bankruptcy of magic realism. Index ........300 VI 1 « I I INTRODUCTION Jules Engel (born in Budapest, Hungary, 1913) came to the United States when he was thirteen years old. He began painting in a hard-edged geometrical style while a high school student in Evanston, Illinois. "I already had a very definite idea," Engel states in the following interview, "that, for me, going out and drawing landscapes or still lifes was not quite the idea what drawing or painting should be. Now, if you ask me where this idea comes from, I have no idea. But my feeling was then that if I would take an empty piece of paper and draw a line or two on it, even if I put a circle in a square on the paper, that that could be a drawing, and that could be enough. And that should be enough." (p. 7) Immediately after graduating from high school in 1937, Engel came to Los Angeles. He worked briefly for Charles Mintz Studios, then Engel apprenticed at Walt Disney Studios.