Monday Volume 587 3 November 2014 No. 54 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Monday 3 November 2014 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2014 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 519 3 NOVEMBER 2014 520 rather than a working household. We have almost become House of Commons blasé about new record falls in unemployment month after month. That is the key to our drive to tackle Monday 3 November 2014 poverty. Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab): I ask the Minister The House met at half-past Two o’clock this week to support the living wage campaign in his own Department. Can he tell the House how many contracted-out workers outside London in his Department PRAYERS have yet to receive the living wage? [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Steve Webb: The right hon. Gentleman deserves great credit for his promotion of the living wage. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State inherited a situation in which some of the Department’s employees were not Oral Answers to Questions receiving the living wage. Our Department has committed to it, and we have had that dialogue with our subcontractors as well. WORK AND PENSIONS Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): I also welcome the rise in the living wage announced today. The Minister will be aware that jobseeker’s allowance claimant numbers The Secretary of State was asked— are falling across the board in every single constituency Working Families (Benefits) in the north-east, and by 31% in my Hexham constituency over the last year. Does he agree with me that coming 1. Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): off JSA and into employment is surely the way forward? What assessment his Department has made of the effects on working families of recent changes to the Steve Webb: My hon. Friend is quite right. It is level of benefits. [905803] entirely welcome that we are ensuring not only that more people get into work, but that work pays through The Minister for Pensions (Steve Webb): Since the the universal credit reform, which this coalition Government financial crash of 2008, while average wages have risen are proud to have introduced. by around 10%, working age benefits have risen by around 20%—a sign of our commitment to those who Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): According to are most vulnerable, despite the black hole in the public the Government’s own figures, 20% of working people finances that we inherited. in my constituency earn less than the living wage, yet they will lose hundreds of pounds a year through this Chi Onwurah: In their relentless demonisation of Government’s freeze in working tax credit. How does those on benefits, this Government forget to say that that possibly reward people who want to work, and how only 3% of welfare spending goes on benefits to the can the Minister justify that when the Government give unemployed, and a half of all those in poverty are in tax cuts to the wealthy? working households. In the north-east, working people are £1,800 worse off per year since this Government Steve Webb: The largest number of people who have came to power, and a quarter of a million of them do benefited most from tax cuts during this Government not even get the living wage. Now the Minister decides are those who are in work and paying income tax. to freeze working tax credits. Why is he balancing the Under this Government, a typical basic rate taxpayer is books on the backs of the working people? £800 a year better off in cash terms as a result of our changes to the personal income tax allowance, and over Steve Webb: It is difficult to know which of those 3.2 million individuals will have been taken out of dubious assertions to choose from that question. income tax altogether. [Interruption.] The hon. Lady asks which one is dubious. She says that 3% of what she calls welfare spending goes Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con): to the unemployed—[Interruption]—goes on benefits to Harrogate borough is part of the roll-out of universal the unemployed, so she presumably counts state pensions credit, and the feedback from jobseekers and employers as welfare spending. I do not. has been universally positive. Will the Minister explain a bit more about the benefits to the UK economy as a Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): I whole when this roll-out is completed? welcome the news that over the last 12 months we have seen the largest annual fall in unemployment since Steve Webb: My hon. Friend is quite right that the records began. Does the Minister share my view that early indications from those receiving universal credit the best way out of poverty is through sustainable have been positive, in line with the expectations of my employment and a regular pay packet—something enjoyed right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. We are designing by an extra 847 of my constituents since January 2013? the system to be simpler for people and to make sure that when they take work, work pays. Already those on Steve Webb: My hon. Friend is quite right. We know the front line who are working with unemployed people that the risk of a child, for example, being in poverty is are welcoming the new freedoms universal credit gives three times as great if they are in a workless household them to support people back to work. 521 Oral Answers3 NOVEMBER 2014 Oral Answers 522 Welfare Reforms (Economy) Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (UKIP): As my right hon. Friend will know, the benefit cap is encouraging 2. David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): What some people to move out of London, where rents are assessment he has made of the effect of his welfare high, to areas such as Clacton and Thanet. Does he reforms on the economy. [905804] agree that local councils should be able to act to discourage benefit migration of that kind? The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain Duncan Smith): Our reforms are having a very positive Mr Duncan Smith: There has been very little movement impact on the economy, as my hon. Friend has seen. of more than about five miles from people’s existing The deficit is down by more than a third, and we are at a homes as a result of the benefit cap. Most people have record level of employment. Recent statistics have shown settled, and many—two thirds—have either gone back that both the number and rate of workless households to work or found alternative employment. Let me say to is at a record low, too—the lowest since 1996. the hon. Gentleman that there is something called the discretionary housing payment, and his local council, like any other, can make decisions about how it modifies David T. C. Davies: May I commend my right hon. the process. It is up to councils to do that, and we leave Friend on these reforms, which as he said have led to it with them. record falls in unemployment while also cutting the deficit? Does he agree with me that all of this is threatened Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): The flagship of by the policies suggested by Labour Members, who welfare reform was supposed to be universal credit. The caused the financial chaos that we have had to deal with Secretary of State’s former adviser told Radio 4 last in the first place? week that the Secretary of State had known that the project was going badly wrong since May 2012, but he Mr Duncan Smith: My hon. Friend is absolutely continued to tell the House that it was “exactly on right. It is worth highlighting one particularly revealing track”. The Chair of the Public Accounts Committee set of figures. For workless households, both the number expects IT write-offs to exceed half a billion pounds and the rate are at record lows: 3.3 million and 15.9% after the election. What is the right hon. Gentleman’s are the lowest since ’96. Children in workless households estimate? number 1.5 million, at a rate of 12.7%—again, the lowest on record. Under Labour, some 2 million children Mr Duncan Smith: Yet again, the right hon. Gentleman lived in workless households. That is now collapsing, has got his facts completely wrong. The reality is that, thanks to the work we are doing. Labour’s plans would as was announced only a few weeks ago, universal only return us to the bad old days. credit is not only doing well, but is to be rolled out nationally. The right hon. Gentleman may be smiling John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): Why because he has the idea that Labour might somehow get are jobcentre staff being told to say to people “We are into government, and might inherit a success. I can tell not here to help you to find work; we are simply here to him that Labour will not get into government, but check that you do it for yourself”? universal credit will get more people back to work. It is already the case that it will give the economy net benefits Mr Duncan Smith: I do not believe that that is correct. of more than £30 billion, and there will be direct I have the highest respect for the people who man benefits of some £9 billion a year as a direct result of jobcentres all over the country, and who do a remarkable the roll-out that we are planning successfully.