Wednesday Volume 546 13 June 2012 No. 13 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday 13 June 2012 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2012 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 305 13 JUNE 2012 306 Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): May I satisfy House of Commons the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman and give the Minister for the Cabinet Office good news by suggesting Wednesday 13 June 2012 that even more money could be saved by relocating out of London and coming to Wellingborough? The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock Mr Maude: I am confident that, under my hon. PRAYERS Friend’s benign guidance, Wellingborough is an incredibly good place for people to work. The size of the civil service is falling to its smallest since the second world [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] war and we are reducing the number of people who need to be in central London, but if the opportunity to relocate people out of London arises, I am sure that Oral Answers to Questions Wellingborough will have a very good case to make. Gloria De Piero (Ashfield) (Lab): When it comes to CABINET OFFICE making savings for the public purse, a constituent of mine has written to me: she works for the civil service The Minister for the Cabinet Office was asked— and is travelling two to three times a week from Nottinghamshire to London to attend meetings that Government Estate (Savings) last about an hour. Is that not a ridiculous waste of money, and what are Ministers doing about it? 1. Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con): What savings to the public purse have resulted from changes to the Mr Maude: Yes, indeed. I recommend that the Government estate in the last two years. [110349] Department for which the hon. Lady’s constituent works The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster investigate the use of the telephone, which has been General (Mr Francis Maude): The moratorium on new around for quite some time. leases and on passing over breaks in existing leases has Big Society Capital helped us across central Government to save the taxpayer some £278 million from property in just the first 10 months of the coalition Government’s time in office. To date, 2. Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab): central Government have got out of more than 900 What steps he plans to take to measure the social leases and released freeholds, and last year alone the impact of Big Society Capital. [110350] size of the estate fell by 6%. 9. Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab): What steps Graham Evans: Will my right hon. Friend reassure he plans to take to measure the social impact of the Big the House that the Government will get value for taxpayers’ Society Capital. [110359] money by ensuring that, wherever possible, the publicly owned freehold estate is used to avoid the need for The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick expensive leases? Hurd): Big Society Capital exists to make it easier for charities and social enterprises across the UK to access Mr Maude: That is exactly our approach. Far too capital. It has two measures of success: growth in social much of the freehold estate is under-occupied and far investment and the social impact of its investments. It is too many expensive leasehold properties are occupied required to report annually on both the social and in a very inefficient way. In Bristol alone we discovered financial performance of those investments. that central Government, in their different forms, occupied 115 separate addresses, which is very inefficient and not Sandra Osborne: I thank the Minister for that response. at all conducive to joined-up government. Cathy Pharoah of the Centre for Charitable Giving and Philanthropy has said that Big Society Capital is likely Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab): As you know, to be biased in favour of safe lending. How will the Mr Speaker, we should always watch what Ministers do, Minister ensure that smaller projects with higher-risk rather than simply listening to what they say. The problem clients have access to it? with this Minister is that he promised millions of pounds of savings from other Departments while sneakily building Mr Hurd: Big Society Capital is a fundraising up his own empire. In truth, his Department’s agencies organisation with a social mission and exists to correct had 23,000 square metres of office space when he came a market failure. It will support innovation and grow to office, but that figure has more than doubled to a the new social investment market and will invest across staggering 56,000 square metres. Squeezing others while a range of products. All we have asked it to do is ensure fattening up his own Department is hardly a policy that that it secures a sufficient return to cover its costs. will incentivise colleagues to reduce their estate. When will he deliver the savings, and not just mythical ones? Ann McKechin: In a written answer to me on 11 June, Mr Maude: The hon. Gentleman ought to look a the Minister stated: little more carefully at the facts. He will see that the “The Investment and Contract Readiness Fund applies to National School of Government and the Central Office England only.”—[Official Report, 11 June 2012; Vol. 546, c. 218W.] of Information, which had been part of quangoland Given that Big Society Capital is for the whole United under the previous Government, have been brought Kingdom, how will companies in other parts of the in-house and so have been closed down. country be able to secure the same assistance? 307 Oral Answers13 JUNE 2012 Oral Answers 308 Mr Hurd: Ultimately, that is a matter for the devolved Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): Administrations, but the hon. Lady is right: Big Society Will my right hon. Friend confirm that next week the Capital has been set up to be available to charities and Government are going to publish their civil service social enterprises throughout the UK. The investment reform plan, and that this issue may be one that the plan and contract readiness fund—£10 million of grants—is addresses as the Government try to set out a clear available to charities and social enterprises in England change programme for the whole of government? which want to make themselves more investment-ready, but the policy area is devolved and therefore a matter Mr Maude: We will publish in due course a plan for for the devolved Administrations. civil service reform, the pattern of which will be incremental reform that is capable of implementation. It should not Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Smaller charities say be another civil service reform plan that lies unimplemented, that they have a harder time accessing capital than the gathering dust on library shelves. big “Tesco” charities. How can we ensure that the big society benefits the little society? Government Contracts Mr Hurd: My hon. Friend makes a very good point, which is particularly relevant and valid in small charities 4. Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): What week. He is entirely right. Access to capital affects steps he is taking to encourage small and medium-sized smaller charities more than larger ones, and that is one enterprises to bid for Government contracts. [110353] reason why within two years we have developed and established the world’s first social investment institution, Big Society Capital, which exists to make such capital The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster much easier to access. General (Mr Francis Maude): It is our aim and aspiration that by the end of this Parliament 25% of central Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP): In Government spend with outside providers should be measuring the impact of Big Society Capital, will the with small and medium-sized enterprises. We have launched Minister assure the House that the resource will tackle a series of radical measures to simplify the procurement deprivation in hard-to-reach communities, particularly process in order to make it easier and cheaper for all in Northern Ireland, where there are isolated rural companies to see the business available with the Government communities and 35 scientifically measured areas of and to bid and compete effectively. Our direct spend disadvantage? with SMEs since the Labour party left office is already on track to double. Mr Hurd: I have been to Northern Ireland myself to make the point that Big Society Capital is available to Jason McCartney: How can SMEs in my constituency charities and social enterprises there. The honest answer find out more about how to do more business with the to the hon. Lady’s question is that any outcome depends Government? on the quality of the investment proposition that intermediaries take to Big Society Capital, but we are Mr Maude: By looking at the Contracts Finder website, very keen to engage with charities and social enterprises which is the main source of Government contracts over in Northern Ireland in order to make sure that the £100,000. That is the place where they should look, and measure is as accessible to Northern Ireland as we say I hope that they will, but since February 2011, when we we want it to be. announced our new approach, about a third of new Civil Servants (Redundancy) contracts have already been awarded to SMEs.