Third Session - Thirty-Fifth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba STANDING COMMITTEE on LAW AMENDMENTS 39-40 Elizabeth II Chairperson Mr. Jack Penner Constituencyof Emerson VOL. XLI No.6· 2:30p.m., MONDAY, JUNE 22,1992 ISSN 0713-9586 Printed by theOffice of the a- Printer, Provinceof Manitoba MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thi rty-Fifth Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation NAME CONSTITUENCY PARTY. ALCOCK, Reg Osborne Liberal ASHTON, Steve Thompson NDP BARREn, Becky Wellington NDP CARSTAIRS, Sharon River Heights Liberal CERILLI, Marianne Radisson NDP CHEEMA, Guizar The Maples Liberal CHOMIAK, Dave Kildonan NDP CONNERY, Edward PortageIa Prairie PC CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose PC DACQUAY, Louise Seine River PC DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DOER, Gary Concordia NDP DOWNEY, James, Hon. Arthur-Virden PC DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. Steinbach PC DUCHARME, Gerry, Hon. Riel PC EDWARDS, Paul St. James Liberal ENNS, Harry, Hon. Lakeside PC ERNST, Jim, Hon. Charleswood PC EVANS, Ciif Interlake NDP EVANS, LeonardS. Brandon East NDP FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo PC FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. Springfield PC FRIESEN, Jean Wolseley NDP GAUDRY, Neil St. Boniface Liberal GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. Minnedosa PC HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NDP HELWER, Edward R. Gimli PC HICKES, George Point Douglas NDP LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Liberal LATHLIN, Oscar The Pas NDP LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert PC MALOWAY,Jim Elmwood NDP MANNESS, Clayton, Hon. Morris PC MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows NDP McALPINE, Gerry Sturgeon Creek PC McCRAE, James, Hon. Brandon West PC MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon. Assinlboia PC MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. River East PC NEUFELD, Harold Rossmere PC ORCHARD, Donald, Hon. Pembina PC PENNER, Jack Emerson PC PLOHMAN, John Dauphin NDP PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC REID, Daryl Transcona NDP REIMER, Jack Niakwa PC RENDER, Shirley St. Vital PC ROCAN, Denis, Hon. Gladstone PC ROSE, Bob Turtle Mountain PC SANTOS, Conrad Broadway NDP STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC STORIE, Jerry Ain Aon NDP SVEINSON, Ben La Verendrye PC VODREY, Rosemary, Hon. FortGarry PC WASYLYCIA-LEIS, Judy St. Johns NDP WOWCHUK, Rosann Swan River NDP 149 LEGISLAnVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON LAW AMENDMENTS Monday, June 22,1992 TIME-2:30 p.m. It is our custom to hear briefs before the LOCATION-Winnipeg, Manitoba consideration of the bills. What is the will of the committee? Agreed. Soordered . CHAIRPERSON- Mr. Jack Penner(Emerson) To date, we have 19 presenters registered to ATTENDANCE -11 -QUORUM- 6 speak on the bill. I will read the names on the list: Members of the Committeepresent: Mr. George Druwe, Societe franco-manitobaine; Hon. Mr. Ernst, Hon. Mrs. Mitchelson Councillor Bill Clement, city councillor for Charleswood; Mr. Trevor Thomas, the City of Messrs. Chomiak, Edwards, Ms. Friesen, Winnipeg legal Department; Councillor Greg Messrs. Gaudry, Helwer, McAlpine, Neufeld, Selinger, city councillor for Tache; Mr. Donovan Penner, Rose Timmers,city councillorfor Westminster;Reverend *Substitution: Harry lehotsky, private citizen; Sylvia DiCosimo, Mr. Ducharme for Mr. Rose (1551) private citizen; Mr. Fred Curry, private citizen; Mrs. lorna Cramer, Residents Committee of Garden APPEARING: City; Mrs. Patricia Thompson, Armstrong's Point Gerald Ducharme, MLA for Riel Association Inc.; Mr. David Cramer, private citizen; WITNESSES: Mr. Dena Sonley, private citizen; Mr. Michael Sawka, private citizen; Mr. and Mrs. Robert Trevor Thomas, City of Winnipeg legal Peterson, private citizens; Mrs. Antonia Engen, Department private citizen; Morley and Bev Jacobs, private Donovan Timmers, Councillorfor Westminster citizens; Lori Janower, private citizen; Mr. Robin Ward, City of Winnipeg Weins, Old St. Boniface ResidentsAssociati on; Mr. Harry lehotsky, Private Citizen Max Saper, private citizen. That is the list of presenters. Sylvia DiCosimo, Private Citizen H there are any personswho wish to speak tothe Fred Curry, Private Citizen bill, who have not yet registered,would you please Patricia Thompson, Armstrong's Point contactthe Clerk of Committees to have your names Association Inc. added tothe list of presenters. I would also like to Morley Jacobs, Private Citizen ask any person requiring photocopies of their briefs to be made to contactth Bev Jacobs, Private Citizen e Clerk ofComm ittees. Guy Jourdain, Societe franco-manitobalne Did the committee wish to indicate, for the audience, how long it is willing to sit thisafternoon MATTERS UNDER DISCUSSION: and If it will take a break for supper? What areyour Bil17, The City of WinnipegAmendment Act (3) wishes? Do you want to break at six o'clock? Six *** o'clock. Agreed? So ordered. For the presenters to Bill 78 who are not present this afternoon, did the Mr. Chairperson: Could we come to order, committee wish to call their names again at seven please? Order, please. Will the Committee onlaw o'clock? Is that your wish? Okay. let us call them Amendmentsplease cometo order? again at seven o'clock. Did the committee wish to This afternoon, the committee will be considering introducetime limits on the presentations? No time one bill, Bill 78, The City of Winnipeg Amendment limits? We might be here a longtime. Act (3). This committee will also be meeting again I would then like to call upon Mr. George Druwe, this evening at seven o'clock to considerthis bill and Societe franco-manitobaine to come forward, to consider Bill 98. please. He is not here? 150 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 22, 1992 I would then like to call Councillor Bill Clement, Now, if the amendmentsgo throughas proposed city councillor for Charleswood. Is Mr. Clement and we have anothersituation like that, the mostwe here? Not here. could do would be to grant a use variance for five Mr. Trevor Thomas, the City of Winnipeg Legal years. To make it permanent, the alternatives Department. Mr. TrevorThomas, would you come would have to be to rezone thatproperty to R2in the forward, please. midst of R1 , which the neighbours would be frightened of and thecity would not want to do, or to Mr. Trevor Thomas (City of Winnipeg Legal amend the text of the zoning by-law and introduce Department): I have here 15 copies of- R2 as a conditional use, which would then be a Mr. Chairperson: You may commence your potential conditional use through the whole of the presentation. R1 area. I think the neighbours would be equally afraid of that, and the city really would not want to (1 0) .. 44 do it. Mr.Thomas: Mr. Chairpersonand members of the The proposal I haveunder alternative No. 2 is that committee, I am dealingonly with onerestricted item in that kind of asitua tion, the owner could make an in Bill 78, that is the topic of use variances. As you application for a variance in the usual way. It would know, the provincial government, during 1991, go to the new board of adjustment, and if they imposed a restriction that a zoning variance could granted it and there was no appeal, thenthat would not allowa change of use. be the end of the matter. There is a proposal in this bill, a new section, 608(4), which would allow use variances for up to However, if you change the scenario somewhat five years. Our only concern on that pointwas that and there is neighbourhood objection and they the five years be counted from-well, I had appeal it, that appeal would go to the appeal suggestedJuly 1 of this year, ratherthan at the first committee which, under Bill 78, would be the time somebodygot a variance. I have been advised Planning Committee, as presently the community that the Departmentof Urban Affairs has consulted committee. That committee would have to make a with the minister, and they are proposing to decision. introduce essentially that amendment with a date Now, if they granted it, that order would not be effective from July 26 last. That would accomplish effective unlessand until the order was referred to the city's purposes, so I do not thinkthere is any City Council with a report and the City Council need for me to dwell at any lengthon that. considered the matter and a full vote of council Onpage 3 ofmy brief, I set out analternative No. would make the decision in the same manner as if 1 to that amendment,which was what the city asked it was a zoning. The council could amend the for last year and was rejected, namely a return to conditionsor impose differentconditio ns. the full power to grant use variances with no Now that,to the city's way of thinking, has all of restrictions. I do notthink I will elaborate upon that. the advantages of a rezoning in the sense that the That has been considered in the past. I was decision ismade by thefull council. It does nothave instructed to put it forward again. I have done so. the disadvantagesthat you are introducing spota of I will deal with the reasons for that under the R2zoning in the middle of the neighbourhood youor heading of alternative No. 2, andwithout read ing it, are introducing a permissive conditional-use I would just give you perhaps two examples. This provision, subject to approval, to have these R2 first example is an example of a large, old house in uses throughout the whole residential the Riverview area off Osborne, which was very neighbourhood. expensive to heat,and nobody could be foundwho Anotherexample could be: As you know, under wanted to buy it as a single-family dwelling. I the city's zoning by-laws, ifa use is not mentioned, believe it was owned by an estate, and itwas being it is not permitted. It is prohibited. We have rentedout and deteriorating. situations where a businessman comes up with an The ownerproposed totum it into a duplex. The innovative idea fora use in a commercial district.