Oral History Center University of California The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California Howardena Pindell Howardena Pindell: Artist, Teacher, and Social Observer Getty Trust Oral History Project African American Art History Initiative, Getty Research Institute Interviews conducted by Andrianna Campbell and Amanda Tewes in 2018 Interviews sponsored by the J. Paul Getty Trust Copyright © 2019 by J. Paul Getty Trust Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley ii Since 1954 the Oral History Center of The Bancroft Library, formerly the Regional Oral History Office, has been interviewing leading participants in or well-placed witnesses to major events in the development of Northern California, the West, and the nation. Oral History is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. The recording is transcribed, lightly edited for continuity and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewee. The corrected manuscript is bound with photographs and illustrative materials and placed in The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley, and in other research collections for scholarly use. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account, offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is reflective, partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ********************************* Copyright in the manuscript and recording is owned by the J. Paul Getty Trust, which has made the materials available under Creative Commons licenses as follows: Manuscript is licensed under CC-BY (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/) and recording is licensed under CC-BY-NC (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/) It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Howardena Pindell, “Howardena Pindell: Artist, Teacher, and Social Observer” conducted by Andrianna Campbell and Amanda Tewes in 2018, Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, under the auspices of the J. Paul Getty Trust, 2019. Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley iii Howardena Pindell, c. 2017 Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley iv Abstract Howardena Pindell is a painter and mixed media artist, as well as a professor at State University of New York at Stony Brook. She earned a BFA from Boston University in 1965 and an MFA from Yale University in 1967. Pindell worked at the Museum of Modern Art from 1967 to 1979, where she held several positions, including exhibit assistant, curatorial assistant, and associate curator. She cofounded the A.I.R. Gallery in 1972. Pindell has taught in the Department of Art at State University of New York at Stony Brook since 1979. In this interview, Pindell discusses: her early life and education; facing discrimination; attending Boston University and Yale University, including professors, colleagues, and curriculum; working and traveling internationally, and facing racism and sexism; working at the Museum of Modern Art, including efforts to unionize and racism in the art world; cofounding A.I.R. Gallery; inspiration for and creation of artwork, including Free, White and 21 and Hunger; relationship with Garth Greenan Gallery; teaching at Stony Brook, including discrimination, students, and teaching philosophy; and working on pieces for future exhibitions. Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley v Table of Contents Interview 1: November 15, 2018 Hour 1 1 Born on April 14, 1943 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania — Growing up in the segregated neighborhood of Germantown — Early education and facing discrimination in school — Teacher recognizing her artistic talents — Attending art programs in Philadelphia, including at the Fleisher Art Memorial — Attending Boston University and Yale University — Support for artistic talent — Discrimination — Parents' background and father's work with Thurgood Marshall for equal pay — Attending the Philadelphia High School for Girls and difficulty with teachers — Involvement in the Presbyterian Church and views on spiritualism — Traveling to the South with family and encountering racism — Artistic interest in circles and grids — Experiences in Boston and the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum — Comparison between discrimination in Philadelphia and Boston — Walter Murch and his teaching style — Following Murch's example of teaching — Connecting Donald Trump's election and discrimination on Long Island — Studying abroad in Sweden while at Boston University, observing Swedish culture and facing discrimination — Traveling to Paris Hour 2 23 Exposure to European art — Frightening travel experiences — Staying in Paris, including experiencing loneliness, meeting artist Joan Mitchell, and living conditions — Graduate School at Yale University, including professors, colleagues, and discrimination — Romantic relationships — Use of unconventional materials in art — Experiencing discrimination — Working at the Museum of Modern Art starting in 1967, and unionizing efforts there — Racism in the art world — Cofounding A.I.R. Gallery in 1972 — Competition in the art world — Creating video Free, White and 21 — Criticism of the whiteness of the women’s movement — Facing racial and gender discrimination — Working at Westbeth Artists' Community — Early artwork in New York , including critical reception — Experiencing discrimination at a wedding Interview 2: November 16, 2018 Hour 1 48 Free, White and 21 — Frustration with discrimination in the women's movement — Getting a National Endowment for the Arts Grant and living in Japan in 1981 — Exposure to Japanese art and culture — Xenophobia, racism, and gender roles in Japan — Fear of recurring earthquakes in Japan — Impact of time in Japan on artwork — Living in India for four months and experiencing racism — Moving studios in New York — Artist assistants Ko Smith and Jasmin Sian — New artwork for exhibition at The Shed inspired by Columbus' abuse of indigenous people — East/West series — Impact of travel on artwork — Trip to South Africa in 1997 and observation of discrimination Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley vi Hour 2 70 Working on Video Drawings to help with strained eyesight — Working on the War Series — Making the video Doubling to discuss war atrocities — In my Lifetime depicting bombing of Hiroshima and war atrocities in Angola — Impact of politics on art — Painting Suttee depicting burning of widows in India — Painting CS560 about toxins used in Israeli-Palestinian conflict — Experiencing a turning point with Scapegoat in the 1990s after mother's death — Working with themes of colonialism and violence — New artwork for exhibition at The Shed — Tulsa Massacre — Impact of politics on the art world — Fighting discrimination in the art world in the 1970s by sending letters to institutions as "The Black Hornet" Interview 3: November 17, 2018 Hour 1 87 Working on stretch canvases — Critique of artist Kara Walker and backlash — Searching for a personal identity through art — DNA testing — Kandinsky Relationships and its symbolism of good and bad relationships — Father's illness and personal poverty — Experiencing food insecurity and painting Hunger — Impact of Garth Greenan on life and work — Reflection on contemporary artists, including Kerry James Marshall — Backlash to Free, White and 21 — Moving towards abstraction with application of shapes and numbering — Travel to the Soviet Union around 1989, experiencing art and culture — Twentieth-century artists, including those in Spiral — Challenges of being an abstract artist in the1970s — Feeling excluded from the women's movement Hour 2 113 Scapegoat and Chrysalis and issues of spirituality — Visiting Mexico and witnessing discrimination against indigenous peoples — Traveling around the world — Fear of flying — Discrimination and diversity in art schools — New artwork for exhibition at The Shed — Use of materials like vegetable papyrus in art — Awareness of archival issues for artwork — Working with artists' assistants — Coursework at Boston University — Teaching at State University of New York at Stony Brook, including students, diversity, discrimination, and teaching style — Discrimination on Long Island Hour 3 136 Publishing and giving talks — Legacy of artwork — Student at Stony Brook — Personal legacy Appendix A: Images 140 Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley 1 Interview 1: November 15, 2018 01-00:00:02 Tewes: This is a first interview with Howardena Pindell for the Getty Research Institute's African American Art History Initiative in association with the Oral History Center at UC Berkeley. The interview is being conducted by Andrianna Campbell and Amanda Tewes at CUNY Graduate Center in New York on November 15, 2018. 01-00:00:25 Campbell: Hi, Howardena. 01-00:00:28 Pindell: Hi. 01-00:00:29 Campbell: This is such a pleasure to see you again. So exciting. The last time we spoke was in your show that was here, at the gallery which you walked me through, and it was really such a success and the work was really engaging, and— 01-00:00:45 Pindell: Thank you. 01-00:00:46 Campbell: —well studiously planned, and then well executed.