Oral history interview with Lowery Stokes Sims, 2010 July 15-22 This interview is part of the Elizabeth Murray Oral History of Women in the Visual Arts Project, funded by the A G Foundation. Contact Information Reference Department Archives of American Art Smithsonian Institution Washington. D.C. 20560 www.aaa.si.edu/askus Transcript Preface The following oral history transcript is the result of a recorded interview with Lowery Stokes Sims on 2010 July 15 and 22. The interview took place in New York, NY, and was conducted by Judith Olch Richards for the Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution. This interview is part of the the Elizabeth Murray Oral History of Women in the Visual Arts Project, funded by the A G Foundation. Lowery Stokes Sims reviewed the transcript in 2020. Her corrections and emendations appear below in brackets with initials. This transcript has been lightly edited for readability by the Archives of American Art. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose. Interview JUDITH RICHARDS: This is Judith Richards, interviewing Lowery Sims in New York City on July 15, 2010, for the Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution, disc one. Good morning. LOWERY STOKES SIMS: Good morning. JUDITH RICHARDS: I'd like to start by asking you to talk about your family background, as far back as you know or you want to talk about, and certainly including your grandparents, if you knew them, and your parents and then getting to where and when you were born. LOWERY STOKES SIMS: Well, actually, I know a lot about my family because on my father's side, there was a family Bible that was kept. So we can, for sure, you know, start our knowledge of the family with my great-great- grandfather, who was Simon Sims, born in 1828, and he lived to be 108. So that meant he was alive when my father was young. And he then, his son Isaac [ph], I think—he had several sons—but Isaac was my great-grandfather. And then, his son Ben was my father's father, and he was married to Rachel [ph] Lowery. So it was Ben Sims marrying Rachel Lowery. And that's where I get my first name. JUDITH RICHARDS: Where did your family live? LOWERY STOKES SIMS: All right, the—according to what we know from the family, that Simon Sims was probably born on a plantation in Holly Springs, MI. Some of— JUDITH RICHARDS: Is Holly Springs two words? LOWERY STOKES SIMS: Yes, I think it is. And I've never figured out how they got to Humboldt, TN, but, you know — JUDITH RICHARDS: Humboldt? LOWERY STOKES SIMS: Humboldt—H-U-M-B-O-L-D-T—after the explorer. But that's where my grandfather, when I was growing up, had a farm. And that's the farm that my father grew up on. So I'm never sure how they got from Holly Springs. But Simon was probably freed after the Civil War and got there—and I never sort of picked up that part. So, anyway, we know the Simses, you know, fairly well, and certainly I knew my grandfather and grandmother growing up. They died—my grandfather must have died when I was about 20, and my grandmother a little later, maybe when I was about 30. JUDITH RICHARDS: That's Ben? LOWERY STOKES SIMS: Ben, yes. And we used to see them—we didn't see them often—but they came to New York [NY] every couple of years, and then we went down to the farm every couple of years. So we kind of grew up there and in the same town my father's oldest sister lived with her foster children. And then he had another sister, Aquila [ph], who married a minister, Perry Henderson [ph], and they lived in Dayton, OH. And they're both dead now, but my cousin—who's about my age, Perry Jr.—is still a minister at the Baptist Church where his father was pastor. JUDITH RICHARDS: What kind of farm was it? LOWERY STOKES SIMS: I think it was kind of a general farm. It was about 200 acres, so they did a lot of crop rotation. And I think when we were kids, we were more, you know, engrossed in the animals rather than the produce—[laughs]—the cows and the chickens, you know. And my grandmother raised the chickens and sold them. And there's a, you know, funny family story of my sister sharing a cookie with a chicken that ended up on the dinner table—[laughs]—and how she was traumatized by, you know, that kind of fact. But you know, like I remember seeing my grandmother just grab a chicken and wring its neck, and then bring it in and pluck it, you know. So—but we were like city kids, you know, and coming down to, you know, to the farms. But— JUDITH RICHARDS: So your grandfather, Ben, and his wife, Rachel— LOWERY STOKES SIMS: Right. JUDITH RICHARDS: —ran the farm. LOWERY STOKES SIMS: Ran the farm. JUDITH RICHARDS: That was what they did. And your— LOWERY STOKES SIMS: That's what they did. And then the farm next to his was his brother—and I'm going to forget his name now—it's terrible, his—you know, how you're forgetting these names, because they haven't talked to them. Henry, his brother—his cousin Henry—was it his brother or his—brother Henry and his wife—oh, jeez, I'm going to remember their names, but the first cousins who were Howard, Julius, Henry Hugh and—I'm going to forget the youngest one; he's the only one who's still alive—I'll sort of remember these names. These were cousins that we used to see. They all, after the Second World War, left farming and went to the city, and all those four brothers, except for Henry Hugh, who went to Pulaski, TN. There was another brother Julius who died early on—[inaudible, cross talk]— JUDITH RICHARDS: Those are your father's first cousins— LOWERY STOKES SIMS: —first cousins. They were all in Cleveland, so we kind of knew those cousins also because we would see them every so often; they'd come to New York. So that's, you know, essentially the sort of Sims half. The Lowery half, we have—[laughs]—it's really kind of—it's sort of like growing in kind of interest because their origins always seemed a little shrouded in mystery. My father used to talk about—there were—I think there were three sisters, and they supposedly were from eastern Tennessee. And when I grew up, I realized that there were three different Tennessees. So if, you know, my family was in west Tennessee, near Memphis, and then there's middle Tennessee, and then there's east Tennessee. So there's no connection necessarily between the Tennessees because it's a long skinny state going from east to west. Anyway, they were supposed to be from Saltillo, TN. JUDITH RICHARDS: How do you spell that? LOWERY STOKES SIMS: I think it's S-A-L-T-I-L-L-O. And they obviously—you know, like trying to figure out the sort of racial mixtures in my family. I mean, clearly on my father's father's side, Ben's side, there was white and black. And there seemed to be the same with my grandmother. But as I've grown older, there were just little kinds of clues that have led—that there probably was some Native American blood. But it's a very kind of interesting story because the Lowery name is very prevalent among the Lumbee Indians who are now based in North Carolina. JUDITH RICHARDS: What do you— LOWERY STOKES SIMS: L-U-M-B-E-E. And they're sort of named for a river. And they're state recognized, but federally recognized, and from the research that I only did more recently, it's seems as though that this was like an Indian tribe that really married on—early, early on—with white and Africans, you know, from the early settlements in the 17th century. So the name comes down—there's another branch of the name that's L-O-W-R-I-E, who are well known brigands and thieves—[laughs]—according to, you know, the research I've done. But the Lowery name was in a census in states like Virginia—because, you know, it's North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia—you know, as early as the late 18th century, like 1790. How that would relate to us, we haven't, you know, figured out. So I sort of really, you know, like sort of came to that, and it wasn't till recently— my father's been dead a while—that my stepmother revealed that he let on to her that his mother was Indian. [Laughs.] I said, "He never said that to us." But, you know, certainly they—you know, like when you look at my aunts—my father's oldest sister—I mean, you looked at her features and, I mean, it clearly looks something—it wasn't African, it wasn't white—I mean, there was a kind of character to it that was, you know, like you could have characterized as Native American. So that's, you know, sort of like the colorful side of the Lowerys.