Cuyahoga County Community College Stokes Initiative Lori Stokes TC -- -So Christine Hickey is here with Lori Stokes and we're going to be talking about her uncle and her father. You go by Lori Stokes, right? I do. L-O-R-I S-T-O-R-K-E-S. S-T-O-K-E-S. What did I say? R-K- something? Strokes? S-T-O-K-E-S. It's okay. I've probably been called worse. So first I want to talk a little about Carl. I know you were young when he became mayor, but in general tell me about your memories of your Uncle Carl? TC: 11:40:29 My memories of my Uncle Carl span such a huge amount of years, when you talk about when he first went into, became Cleveland's mayor and America's first black mayor. That was 1967 and I was born in '62, so I was very young. But I certainly know of all the stories, particularly of that night that he was elected because he won by 1700 votes. So it was still close, but it was still a clear win. TC: 11:41:03 So I hear the stories about that night when my father was upstairs with Dr. Martin Luther King, and when they found out, when the results came in, the jubilation in the streets and this triumph against Seth Taft, who in itself was such a huge name and a legacy. That America never thought something like this would happen. So I've heard the tales of that night and how my father stayed upstairs with Dr. King while my Uncle Carl went downstairs to greet his voters with this wonderful news of what had just happened and the implications of what it meant around the world, for that matter. TC: 11:41:45 My recollection's more where, of course, as I got older, with my Uncle Carl and the love that he showed toward me and also what he meant to this country. Whether it was as the mayor of Cleveland. He then went on to become New York's first black anchorman. Then coming back home to Cleveland, becoming a judge, and then being appointed to the Ambassador to the Seychelles by President Clinton. TC: 11:42:20 Stokes Initiative Lori Stokes TC So during those times, particularly I remember when I was at Ohio State. When I was at Ohio State, and I would call my uncle. Because he knew I had no money and he would send me money while I was there, so that I could get, you know, chicken wings or whatever it was. That always continued to be a theme. TC: 11:42:43 He was so instrumental. As I mentioned, he became New York's first anchorman. When I told him that I was thinking of going into journalism, we were standing at his home on Larchmont and he was just giving me advice of the responsibility that comes with being a journalist. Beyond being fair, the truth that's involved with being a journalist. The awesome responsibility of the power that you have. TC: 11:43:15 And an obligation that you have to viewers. He was telling me that I had to have a thick skin. He told me, "Don't lose the compassion, don't become jaded, but believe in yourself." He said to me, "You sure you want to do this?" And I said, "Yeah, I'm sure, Uncle Carl." I remember at the time he was in the transition of going to the Ambassadorship, so he was selling everything at the home in Shaker Heights. TC: 11:43:47 He gave me his only Emmy that he had gotten from WNBC in New York for the great, outstanding work that he had done. To me, I have it today with all of my other Emmy's, but it's front and center and it still is one of the most precious gifts I've ever received. TC: 11:44:10 Because I feel as if my uncle, in everything he did, was so much like my father, in that excellence was one of the leading factors that made them who they both were. That they demanded excellence of themselves. And then that became something I think that others could follow. TC: 11:44:37 Page 2 of 17 Stokes Initiative Lori Stokes TC Even when I was -- my first job in Champagne, Urbana, again I was making no money. And again, my uncle was there sending a check here and there. Something we didn't even discuss with my parents. It was just the goodness, the goodness of who he was. What would you say, you can name the one legacy that everybody knows, but is there another legacy? What would you say the legacy of Carl Stokes was? TC: 11:45:30 I think the legacy of my Uncle Carl was -- you know the phrase of jack of all trades, master of none. I think that my uncle was jack of all trades, master of all. Everything he did, whether he was a liquor agent, or boxing, or playing billiards, or being the mayor, or being a journalist, or being an Ambassador, or being an uncle, or being a father, or being a brother, or being a husband, or being a son. TC: 11:46:08 I think he mastered it all with such energy and enthusiasm. He did everything his way. He didn't follow anybody's book, but his own. And no one could replicate what he did. He had fire, he didn't take any foolishness off of anyone, and if you challenged him to something you'd better be prepared to lose. Because he was going to go deep, and he was going to win. I think that's his legacy. That's good. It sums him all up. Yes. It goes back to that excellence, what you were talking about before. Yes. Expecting excellence out of themselves. Yes. Now, your uncle and father worked together as a team. I don't know if you saw it as much because you were younger at the time, but they very much worked together as a team, I'm guessing throughout their lives. Yes. Tell me about their relationship from your perspective, the two brothers. TC: 11:47:11 The relationship between my father and my uncle, I think was extraordinary. There was a very deep love that they had for one another. That love really started as children, because they did not have their father. Their father died when my father was three, Carl was one, he died of acute Page 3 of 17 Stokes Initiative Lori Stokes TC peritonitis. So they never had the benefit of knowing their father, and being able to emulate anyone. TC: 11:47:43 It was Carl, my dad, and their mother. She loved those boys like nobody's business. You know, the story, of course everyone knows, my grandmother was a domestic and would travel, take two trolley cars to clean other people's homes. She called it in service, she did not call herself a domestic. She had a 7th grade education, she made $8.00 a day, and she had asked her mother to come up from Georgia to help assist with everything because she would sometimes have to spend the night. TC: 11:48:16 So with her being gone, there were many times where Carl and Lou, Billy and Brother as they were called when they were young, they only had each other and they really had to depend on each other, for everything. You know, during the Great Depression, when they would fill a wagon with food supplies and one would carry a stick to beat off anyone who came on the side while the other one would pull the dry goods. TC: 11:48:41 They took odd jobs. My dad used to shine shoes, and the more he'd pop the rag the bigger tip he would get. Carl would collect glass and plastic bottles, and try and get money for that. So there was a, it went beyond siblings. I mean, they were almost one at times. Always looking out for the other one's back, from childhood through adulthood. TC: 11:49:05 Even through the neighborhood adults, you know? Whether it was Carl learning how to box, and my dad, also. Although Carl was better at boxing. There was this, always a parallel but yet they each took their own path. You know, my dad loved the law, Carl loved politics. Even though they both went off to the war, of course. They both served in the Army. TC: 11:49:32 Page 4 of 17 Stokes Initiative Lori Stokes TC But my father embraced going to school a little bit more than my uncle. Because Carl wanted to get there. You know? He didn't always want to have to go do all the work to get there, you know? 'Cause he was gonna get there his way. So I always grew up knowing they had this machine. They had a Stokes machine that came from childhood, through their teen years, serving in the Army, coming back, both going to law school. TC: 11:50:10 Eventually having a partnership in a law firm. Although my dad talks about the only time that they argued was one time when my father kept feeling as if my uncle wasn't bringing in law cases.