A group interview with Andy Wilson, founder and CEO of Boston Duck Tours and Massachusetts entrepreneur of the year Authors: Jennifer K. Hartwell, William R. Torbert Persistent link: http://hdl.handle.net/2345/4247 This work is posted on eScholarship@BC, Boston College University Libraries. Published in Journal of Management Inquiry, vol. 8, no. 2, pp. 183-190, June 1999 Use of this resource is governed by the terms and conditions of the Creative Commons "Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States" (http:// creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/us/) •• • MEET THE PERSON A Group Interview With Andy Wilson, Founder and CEO of Boston Duck Tours and Massachusetts Entrepreneur of the Year JENNIFER I<. HARlWELL WILLIAM R. TORBERT Boston College · he following is a lightly edited interviewbe­ aim is to generate a mutual, developmental, ecologi­ tween the participants of a Boston College cal, and social alchemy (Abram, 1997; Hawken, 1993; T Ph.D. consultingseminarand Andy Wilson, Reason, 1994; Spretnak, 1997; Torbert, 1991, 1997a, founder and CEO of Boston Duck Tours, which since 1997b) in eachcurrentmeeting thatgraduallyenables 1994 has provided narratedhistoric tours ofBoston in the development of transformational visioning, authentic World War IT amphibious vehicles that strategizing, performing, and assessing in more and travel on l~d and water. Atthe time ofthe interview, more teams and subsystems of an organization, as April 1997, Andy was considering opening nine new well as at the organization's interorganizational and Duck Tour sites around the country. Two months environmental interfaces. In addition to the reading later, President Clinton feted the "Entrepreneurs of and the in-eIass interpersonal exercises, class partici­ the Year" from each ofthe 50 states, withAndyrepre­ pantsengageinsoul-searchingautobiographicalwrit­ senting Massachusetts. ing (Torbert &: Fisher, 1992) and in organizational The consulting seminar focuses on personal and interventions.! group developmental theory and on how develop­ For the class members, the interview with Andy mental theory can be applied to organizations (e.g., constituted an opportunity to practice (a) interview­ readings include Argyris, 1994; Barrett &: Cooper­ ing an executive; (b) creating a mutual, transforma­ rider, 1990; Brown &: Isaacs, 1996-1997; Erikson, 1969; tional environment with a stranger; (c) clinically ap­ Fisher & Torbert, 1995; Harrison, 1995). Every minute plying developmental theory in real time (as will be of class time is regarded as inviting the consulting discussed in the analytical article following this inter­ presence, awareness, and practice ofeach participant, view); and (d) experimenting with one's own pattern no matter what the particular exercise (about 400/0 of ofinquiryandself-disclosure,support,andconfronta­ each class session is taped, transcribed, analyzed, and tion. Prior to the interview, there was no plan about "fed back" by participants on a rotating basis to the whoshouldsaywhat orwhen. You, the reader, are in­ rest of the dass, as was this interview). The seminar's vited to asses~ in what senses the class succeeded or JOURNAL OF MANAGEMENTINQUIRY, VoL 8 No.2, June 1999 183-190 @ 1999 Sage Publications, Inc. 183 184 JOURNAL OF MANAGEMENT INQUIRY / June 1999 did not succeed in its intent (and to inquire into the slow and steady and k~p on going versus being data, theory, and assumptions that underlie your the hare. I think that's what you're saying about assessment). somebodywho'sona roll. Theysitbackandlivethe Andy volunteered to be interviewed in part in the highlife andthinkthey'reinvincible. I don'tbelieve hope of receiving useful feedback as he navigates that I'm invincible. I say inbusiness you're only as through a difficult personal and professional transi­ goodasyouareatthemoment.AndI've trulycome tion. He was intrigued by the environment of honest to believe that. seH-reflection that a close friend, who was a class I thinksecondarilywhyI'mveryreflective is that member, had been mentioning during the prior 2 my business is only in Boston right now, and I'm months. We think you will agree that what gradually looking to expand worldwide. And it's a major life emerges through the challenging questions that the commitment, in terms of looking at major transi­ class participants ask ofAndy, as well as through the tions. You know, I've worked the last 4 years to challengingquestionsheaskshimseH,isa portraitofa buildthisbusinessanddidn'thavea life. Oneofmy transformational leaderwhosecharismaderivesfrom goalsis tohavea life, andallofa suddenI'msaying, a willingness toface hisowntransformationalissues.2 "OK, I have one of these operations, and now I'm growingitfrom one to maybe 20 or30 worldwide." Andlookingatthe travel,itallgoesagainstmyper­ Bill (the professor): Andy, welcome. Thanks a lot for sonal goal. Somehow or other looking for bal­ being with us. We'llhave some questioningbyour I'm ance, andI'mlookingfor a certainculture, whichis class members,and I'll sitbackand nulthe tape re­ so important. It's been so important to the success corder here and pay attention to the interviewers ofourcompany. How canI spread thatculture and and see how they are doing. Hopefully I won't cre­ maintain it, you know, when it's even difficult ate too intimidatinga situationfor them, and hope­ maintaining it locally? fully we won't create too intimidating a situation Ben: So whywould you expand? H you're looking for for you, Andy, though I guess you have a lot ofex­ balance and looking to limit your travel and all perience with crowds! thosekindsofthings,whatwouldbetheimpetusto Jennifer: I want to makea recommendationthatwe,as get you to think about expanding? a class, stop if wefeel like we'regoingonthe wrong Andy: Well, predominantly because my company's tangent and discuss that outwardly. met with such wild success, and it's a concept that Ben: Well, as the only guy who voted against this ses­ cangrow. HIdon'tgrowit,somebodyelsewill, and sion, I'llstart! (Laughter.) I'mgladyou'rehere, and they won't do it as well as I can. H I don't grow it, I guess yourcompany's sort ofona roll. Myexperi­ what I have going on in Boston will probably be ence working withexecutives is thatoftentimesthe taken away. Right now in this industry I'm the hardest time to get them to be reflective is when front-runner. I mean, there's absolutelyno doubt. I things are going right. When things are going know thatifI juststop,people are going topassme wrong, they see their own mortality in their job. by. Andit'snotsomuchthatI mind peoplepassing That's the time when people have a tendency to meby, it's thatinbusiness youneed tostayin a p~ say, "Now I've got to really think about what hap­ sition of strength. pened and reflect aboutwhatI did." But,you know, Ben: Yeah. Standing still is not going to increase your when they askedTedWilliams whyhe practiced so advantage, right? hard since he already was such a great hitter, he used to say, "Ifyou don't know why things are go­ Andy: Exactly. ing well, you'll never know why things are going Vivian: So, youronlychoiceistogoforward and toex­ wrong when your batting goes South." In your pand or to basically drop out of the business? situation, giventhatthingsaregoingpositivelyand Andy: Well, notdrop out,butI have anexclusivefran­ they seem to be on a roll, why would this be a time chise in Boston rightnow, inessence, and as I grow for you, personally, to reflect? this, I think that I can retain exclusivity. H I don't Andy: I think for two reasons. The first reason is I grow it, my conjecture is that somebody else will overanalyze everything, which is my strong point comein and try to do the same thing in Boston. But and my weak point. I use the tortoise and the hare ifI grow the business, keep myeye on the ball, that story. I want to stay the tortoise. In other words, will continue to give me, in essence, political Hartwell, Torbert / INTERVIEW WITH ANDY WILSON 185 strengthinBoston,soIcansay, IIHey, I'mthebestin was building systems, I was going down to Wall theworldatwhatI'mdoing."Andit'sa veryhighly Street-itwas amazing. But after a few more years, regulated business, so it's part of my strategy to I finally went to them and said, look, ifI'm goingto maintainwhat I have here. It's anoddbusiness. It's continue to bringinnewbusiness, and thatwasmy highly government regulated and, as in any poli­ goal, then I want to have more of a direct correla­ tics, it helps to come from a position of strength. tion between what I produce versus what I earn. I Jennifer: Haveyou seengoingforward andgrowingit went to them and I said, "If you don't want to do as fulfilling your dreams? that, then you don't want me." And they said, "We're not going to do it." And I said, "Fine." Andy: Ub, I'm still striving for that answer. And I So inAprilof1992 I turnedinmy6-monthnotice. don't have an answer to it yet, quite honestly. I've I hiredmyreplacement,andI quitinAugustof1992 been in a relationship 15 years, and it had a lot of with about $50,000 in the bank. At the time, Bill problems with me traveling a lot. You know, I'm Clinton was runningfor president, andhe was tak­ trying to resolve that all right now, and it-it kind inga bustripacross thecountry,campaigning.And of goes against the grain of the whole thing. They I said, "This looks like a good idea." I'm from the don't seem to mesh real well right now, and that's Midwest,andI boughta 90-dayGreyhoundpass reallypartofthe whole issue-howI getthatmesh. with my frequent flyer miles from traveling with You know, I love to traveL I mean I am traveling. the Boston Company. I'm working onstarting others of these things else­ . My mom had cancer at the time, and I stopped where, and it's really a rush.