Second Session - Thirty-Fifth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba STANDING COMMITTEE on MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS 40 Elizabeth II Chairman Mrs. Louise Dacquay Constituencyof Seine River VOL XL No.3 ·10 a.m., THURSDAY, JULY 18, 1991 MG-8048 ISSN 0713-956X Printedby the Office of the Queens Printer. Province of Manitoba MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-FifthLegislature LIB -liberal; NO - New Democrat; PC - Progressive Conservative NAME CONSTITUENCY PARTY. ALCOCK, Reg Osborne LIB ASHTON, Steve Thompson NO BARRETT, Becky Wellington NO CARR, James Crescentwood LIB CARSTAIRS, Sharon River Heights LIB CERILLI, Marianne Radisson NO CHEEMA, Guizar The Maples LIB CHOMIAK, Dave Kildonan NO CONNERY, Edward Portage Ia Prairie PC CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose PC DACQUAY, Louise Seine River PC DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NO DOER, Gary Concordia NO DOWNEY, James, Hon. Arthur-Virden PC DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. Steinbach PC DUCHARME, Gerry,Hon. Riel PC EDWARDS, Paul St. James LIB ENNS, Harry, Hon. Lakeside PC ERNST, Jim, Hon. Charleswood PC EVANS, Clif Interlake NO EVANS, Leonard S. Brandon East NO FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo PC FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. Springfield PC FRIESEN, Jean Wolseley NO GAUDRY, Neil St. Boniface LIB GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. Minnedosa PC HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NO HELWER, Edward R. Gimli PC HICKES, George Point Douglas NO LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster LIB LATHLIN, Oscar The Pas NO LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert PC MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NO MANNESS, Clayton, Hon. Morris PC MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows NO McALPINE, Gerry Sturgeon Creek PC McCRAE, James, Hon. Brandon West PC MciNTOSH, linda, Hon. Assiniboia PC MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. River East PC NEUFELD, Harold, Hon. Rossmere PC ORCHARD, Donald, Hon. Pembina PC PENNER, Jack Emerson PC PLOHMAN, John Dauphin NO PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC REID, Daryl Transcona NO REIMER, Jack Niakwa PC RENDER, Shirley St. Vital PC ROCAN, Denis, Hon. Gladstone PC ROSE, Bob TurtleMountain PC SANTOS, Conrad Broadway NO STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC STORIE, Jerry Ain Flon NO SVEINSON, Ben La Verendrye PC VODREY, Rosemary FortGarry PC WASYL YCIA-LEIS, Judy St. Johns NO WOWCHUK, Rosann Swan River NO 92 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS Thursday, July 18, 1991 TIME-10a.m. the conclusion ofBill 35 and then proceeding to Bill LOCATION-Winnipeg, Manitoba 68. Bill 59 is being heard in the room adjacent, Room 254. CHAIRMAN - Mrs. Louise Dacquay (Seine River) "(1005) ATIENDANCE- 8- QUORUM- 6 When thiscommittee sat last night, it was agreed that we would hear from the Manitoba Naturalists Members of the Committee present: Society. The Clerk has informed me that they were Hon. Mr. Ernst contacted this morning and they will not be Mr. Carr, Mrs. Dacquay, Ms. Friesen, Messrs. appearing. Additionally, Mr. Dave Brown, whose Maloway, McAlpine, Rose, Mrs. Vodrey name was called but did not appear last night, also APPEARING: advised theClerk that he will not be appearing. Gerald Ducharme, MLA for Riel It is my understanding that it is the will of the committee that we now proceed to hear public WITNESSES: representations on Bill 68 and therefore all public Lillian Thomas, Councillor, Elmwood Ward, representation on Bill 35 has been concluded. Is City of Winnipeg that the will ofthe committee? Theresa Ducharme, PEP (People in Equal Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Participation) Madam Chairman: Agreed and so ordered. Paul Moist, Canadian Union of Public Employees, Local 500 I will proceed at this point to identify all 32 individuals who have indicated they wish to speak Greg Mandzuk, Canadian Union of Public to Bill 68, and then I will proceed throughthe list and Employees, Local 500 call the individuals one by one. Those who are Brett Lockhart, Private Citizen present as their names appear, I would request that David Waytowich, Private Citizen they please come forward. CharlotteHozumi, Private Citizen Number one, Mr. George Marshall, Private PatrickDaly, Private Citizen Citizen; No. 2, a spokesperson to be named for Winnipeg In the Nineties; No. 3, Mr. Ken Guilford, R. M. Goodman, Private Citizen Private Citizen; No. 4, Councillor Lillian Thomas, Deborah Smith, Choices ElmwoodWard for the City of Winnipeg; No. 5, Ms. Julia Boon, Private Citizen Theresa Ducharme, People in Equal Participation; No. 6, Councillor Roger Young, Pembina-Riverview George Marshall, Private Citizen Ward, City of Winnipeg; No. 7, Councillor George MATTERS UNDER DISCUSSION: Fraser, Private Citizen; No. 8, Councillor Terry Bill 68, The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act Duguid, Miles MacDonell Ward for the City of (2) Winnipeg; No. 9, Councillor Peter Diamant, Bill 35, The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act University Ward, City of Winnipeg; No. 1 0, Mr. Paul Moist, Canadian Union of Public Employees, Local *** 500; No. 11 , Ms. Shirley Lord, Private Citizen; No. 12, Councillor Glen Murray, River-Osborne Ward, Madam Chairman: Will the committee on City of Winnipeg; No. 13, Mr. Larry Crane, Private Municipal Affairs please come to order to consider Citizen; No. 14, Mr. George Lapp, Private Citizen; Bill 68. I would just like to remind all the presenters No. 15, Mr. BrettLockhart, Private Citizen; No. 16, that in this room this morning we are dealing with Mr.John Mandryk, Private Citizen;No. 17, Mr. David 93 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 18, 1991 Waytowich, Private Citizen; No. 18, Mr. Robin Hall, residents of my ward are expecting me to lookafter Private Citizen; No. 19, Mrs. Charlotte Hozumi, the affairs of the city. This high-handed behaviour Private Citizen; No. 20, Mr. Patrick Daly, Private interferes with my ability to be an effective Citizen; No. 21, Mr. Gary Coopland, Private Citizen; representative. No. 22, A.M. Goodman, Private Citizen; No. 23, Mr. City Council does things differently. When we Grant Nordman, Private Citizen; No. 24, Mr. John want the public's opinion on an issue, the issue is Harrison, Private Citizen; No. 25, Ms. Deborah put on an agenda of community committees, Smith, representing CHOICES; No. 26, Mrs. Julia standing committee,EPC or council. If an individual Boon, Private Citizen; No. 27, Mr. David Brown, cannot appear, many times we have laid over Private Citizen; No. 28, Mr. Mike O'Shaughnessy, consideration of a matter to allow the person an Private Citizen; No. 29, Mr. Gordon Mackie, Private opportunity to participate. I object to the method Citizen; No. 30, Mr. Bernie Wolfe, Private Citizen; used by the Legislature. Instead of tinkering with No. 31 , Mr. G. Hewitt, St. Boniface-St. Vital how other levels ofgovernment handletheir affairs, Residents Advisory; No. 32, Dr. Jim Shapiro, St. why do you notlook at yourself and decide how you Germain Residents Association. can be more effective, more democratic and more Additionally, I would just like to suggest that if responsive to thecitizens of your constituency, and there is anyone present this morning whose name let us get back to our own business. has not been called, ifthey would raise their hand, identify themselves to our Clerk, your name will be Second point-timing. The Legislature has addedto the bottomof our Jist. decidedto consider this piece of tripeat a time when you are overhauling the city's major planning *(1010) document through Bill 35. Also, at the same time as We will nowproceed and I will call the individuals. you have demanded that we do a major review of As I revert to the names, please step forward. Mr. Plan Winnipeg, youare ramming this through when George Marshall, Private Citizen; a spokesperson we are up to our eyeballs trying desperately to for Winnipeg In theNineties; No. 3, Mr. Ken Guilford, respond to your demands, but have you waited for Private Citizen; No. 4, Councillor Lillian Thomas, our response? You have not. If we had not had a Elmwood Ward, City of Winnipeg. Good morning, special meeting of council Wednesday morning, Councillor Thomas. Do you have a written yesterday, you would have unilaterally proceeded presentationfor members of the committee? withoutour input. h is difficultnot to impute motives nor to take this matter personally. Ms. Ulllan Thomas(Councillor, Elmwood Ward, CHy of Winnipeg): I have a presentation that I I have this overwhelming feeling that the former wrote downlast night. I do nothave a political staff city councillors who have either chosen to move to that types up my presentations, so I have to go by the Legislature or were pushed out are miffed, the notes that I made myseH. So I will be reading miffedbecause theycannot continue to run City Hall from my notes. fromthe Legislature. I know that the Legislature has Madam Chairman: That is fine. Thank you very enough of its own problems. Why are you much. Please proceed, Councillor Thomas. interfering with the city's composition and structure when an overwhelming majority of the citizens, Ms.Thomas: I have comehere to speak to Blll 68, appearing both before the ward review you struck which I strongly object to. I look outside and I see it and the commission we struck, said they wanted pouring rain, thundering. When I got up this council to remain the same size as it is now. morning, they said that the weather could be considered ominous, andI hope the committee will .. (1015) consider moving in this direction to be definitely a Furtherto the manner on timing, I am a member bad omen for democracy. of the Protection, Parks and Culture Committee. Thefirst point I would like to make is on method. The Hughes Inquiry raised heavily on me at this I object to the methodof the hearing schedule. I did time. The streets, sidewalks and sewers of my ward not know when this hearing would convene. I had need attention, and this is construction season. no notice. I was told to sit by my phone and wait for The residents of my ward want me to come and see a call that would inform me when I was required at what their problems are, and you want me to sit by the Legislature.