Volume 18 • Issue 2 • Summer 2018 IJCP Academic Article confronting society today? VEF: “What threatens contemporary A Simulated Interview man is the alleged meaninglessness of life” (Frankl, 1958, p. 20). with Viktor Frankl: Part 2 “Today, the will to meaning is often frustrated” (Frankl, 1966d, p. 252). “Man is no longer told by drives and - Searching for meaning instincts what he must do. And in contrast to man in former times, during times of despair he is no longer told by traditions and values what he should do” By James C. Overholser, Ph.D., ABPP, Case Western Reserve (Frankl, 1975, p. 91). “Soon he will University. not even know what he wants to do” (Frankl, 1963b, p. 27). “In an age of crumbling traditions … ever more people are caught in a feeling of aimlessness and emptiness” (Frankl, 1966b, p. 26). JCO: How could this come about? VEF: “Consider today’s society: it gratifies and satisfies every need – except for one, the need for meaning” (Frankl, 1978, p. 25). “Ever more people today have the means to live, but no meaning to live for (Frankl, 1978, p. 21). “Our young people are caught in an existential vacuum, an inner void and emptiness” (Frankl, 1969, p. 39). JCO: I have known people who cope Abstract experiences to learn, understand, with stress by shopping and buying. iktor Frankl’s approach to respect, and manage situations How does this style fit with your Vpsychotherapy embraces some that involve pain, tragedy, and views? of the most difficult and complex death. The present manuscript problems encountered throughout explores Frankl’s ideas with a VEF: “Our industrial society is out life. Unlike many other forms of reliance on his own words, using a to satisfy every need” (Frankl, psychotherapy, Frankl confronts simulated dialogue format. 1981, p. 77), “and in its desire coping with tragic events, often to increase consumption it often shifting the focus onto meaning Interview: creates needs in order to satisfy and proper attitudes. These notions The goals of psychotherapy according them” (Frankl, 1984b, p. 6), “but are reviewed using a simulated to Viktor Emil Frankl (VEF) as the most human of all human interview format. interviewed by James C. Overholser needs – the need to see a meaning Throughout his career, Viktor (JCO)1. in one’s life – remains unsatisfied” Frankl has made numerous JCO: Let’s get started again. What (Frankl, 1987, p. 5). contributions to the field of do you see as the major problems psychotherapy, with his approach JCO: So is a lack of meaning focused on a search for meaning 1 Frankl often used the word “he” when we might the primary form of pathology a that helps clients triumph over now prefer the nonsexist phrase “they”, or “man” psychotherapist needs to confront? tragedy. Frankl relied on his life when we might prefer “human”. Irish Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy 23 IJCP Volume 18 • Issue 2 • Summer 2018 VEF: “No” (Frankl, 2000, p. 119). the patient to find meaning in life” VEF: “We may find meaning in “The feeling of meaninglessness (Frankl, 1967b, p. 141). “Meaning our lives through deed, through is not pathological” (Frankl, must be found” (Frankl, 2004a, work, through achievement 1959, p. 162). “What is sick is p. 9) “and it must be found by and accomplishment, through not necessarily wrong” (Frankl, oneself” (Frankl, 1972, p. 88). “It creativity” (Frankl, 1968b, p. 11). 2000, p. 75). “The will to meaning is never up to a therapist to convey “Most important, however, is … represents not only the most to the patient a picture of the world that of attitudes” (Frankl, 1980, human phenomenon possible, as the therapist sees it, but rather p. 8). “If we cannot change a but also that its frustration does to enable the patient to see the situation that causes our suffering, not necessarily signify something world as it is” (Frankl, 1961b, p. we can still choose our attitude” pathological” (Frankl, 1958b, p. 6). “A psychotherapist … is neither (Frankl, 1980, p. 8). 85). “Man’s search for a meaning a teacher nor a preacher” (Frankl, is … the surest sign of being truly 1962c, p. 27). “He resembles JCO: In your view, how can therapy human” (Frankl, 1962b, p. 94). an ophthalmologist more than a help clients to battle their painter” (Frankl, 1962c, p. 27). depression? JCO: Really? But I thought a “We … broaden his field of vision lack of meaning underlies the so that he will become aware of the VEF: “Man yearns for a reason to sense of despair. How is this not full spectrum of the possibilities” be happy” (Frankl, 1968b, p. 9). “If pathological? (Frankl, 2010, p. 89). “The man can find and fulfill a meaning therapist merely assists him in this in his life he becomes happy” VEF: “Despair need not necessarily endeavor” (Frankl, 1960a, p. 11). (Frankl, 2004b, p. 94). be pathological” (Frankl, 1958b, p. 84). “Despair is suffering without JCO: How does all of this work? JCO: But today, unemployment rates meaning” (Frankl, 1997a, p. 133). are high, clients are struggling “I can see beyond the misery of VEF: “We … promote the patient to financially, and many people suffer the situation to the potential for that point where he spontaneously from depression. discovering a meaning behind it, finds meaning” (Frankl, and thus to turn an apparently 1966/2016, p. 10). “The more VEF: “Depression does not entirely meaningless life into a genuine one is immersed and absorbed depend on whether people are human achievement” (Frankl, in something or someone other employed or not, but rather on 1997b, p. 46). “The striving to than oneself the more he really whether they consider their lives find a meaning in life is a primary becomes himself” (Frankl, 1975a p. meaningful or not” (Frankl, 1984b, motivational force in man (Frankl, 79). “Only as man withdraws from p. 6). “There is also an existential 1967a, p. 20). himself in the sense of releasing emptiness, and this we find in self-centered interest and attention people with work and without work, JCO: So everyone’s life has will he gain an authentic mode of in spite of work, and sometimes meaning? existence” (Frankl, 1960a, p. 13). even because of work” (Frankl, 1984b, p. 6). VEF: “Yes, of course” (Frankl, 2000, JCO: So a person should aim for p. 37). “The so-called life not self-actualization? JCO: Really? Emptiness continues worth living does not exist” (Frankl, despite successful employment? 1958c, p. 36). VEF: “Actually, man’s concern is not to fulfill himself or to actualize VEF: “It is possible to be caught JCO: How does a therapist promote himself, but to fulfill meaning and in existential despair despite meaning in a client’s life? to realize value” (Frankl, 1959, p. full success” (Frankl, 2010, p. 160). “The more one is immersed 148). “In ‘Executive’s Disease’ VEF: “In my opinion meaning is and absorbed in something or the frustrated will to meaning is something to be found rather than someone other than oneself the vicariously compensated by the will to be given” (Frankl, 1965, p. 57). more he really becomes himself” to power” (Frankl, 1967a, p. 125). “It is not the job of a doctor to give (Frankl, 1975, p. 79). “In addition to this” (Frankl, 1967a, meaning to the patient’s life. But p. 43) “the Sunday neurosis … it may well be his task, through JCO: In your opinion, what is the when the rush of the busy week an existential analysis, to enable best pathway to find meaning? stops on Sunday and the void 24 Irish Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy Volume 18 • Issue 2 • Summer 2018 IJCP within them suddenly becomes “The pursuit of happiness is self- VEF: “Right” (Frankl, 1971a, p. manifest” (Frankl, 1967a, p. 125). defeating … What man actually is 310). “Even the negative, the “Not only during leisure but also concerned with is to have a reason tragic aspects of human existence in old age, man is faced with the to be happy” (Frankl, 1968b, p. 9). … may be turned into something problem of how he should fill up his positive, something creative” time” (Frankl, 2010, p. 87). JCO: I am confused. How does it (Frankl, 1972, p. 88). work? JCO: So you feel the core problem in JCO: What about something extreme, most cases of depression is a lack VEF: “I cannot explain it” (Frankl, like when a young person dies? of meaning? 1966/2016, p. 9). “Pleasure is never the goal of striving, but only VEF: “Life’s transitoriness does VEF: “Correct” (Frankl, 2000, p. the effect which results when the not in the least detract from its 51). “Suicide proneness, violent striving obtains the desired goal” meaningfulness” (Frankl, 2010, behavior, and drug dependency, are, (Frankl, 1952, p. 128). “The more p. 118). “We cannot, after all, in fact, due to a lack, or loss, of one aims at pleasure, the more his judge a biography by its length, meaning” (Frankl, 2010, p. 203). aim is missed” (Frankl, 1966a, p. by the number of pages in it; we 98). “Pleasure … must remain, a must judge by the richness of the JCO: What about other problems? side-effect, or by-product, of attaining contents (Frankl, 1955a, p. 53). Many clients struggle because of a goal” (Frankl, 1966a, p. 98). “If life is meaningful, then it is so trauma and other major life events. “The harder a man tries to evade whether it is long or short” (Frankl, unpleasure, or suffering, the deeper 1958c, p. 33). VEF: “Pain, death, and guilt are he plunges himself into additional inescapable; the more the neurotic suffering” (Frankl, 1967a, p.