PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT GENERAL COMMITTEES Public Bill Committee PARENTAL BEREAVEMENT (LEAVE AND PAY) BILL Second Sitting Wednesday 7 February 2018 CONTENTS SCHEDULE agreed to, with amendments. Bill, as amended, to be reported. PBC (Bill 14) 2017 - 2019 No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the final version of the report should be clearly marked in a copy of the report—not telephoned—and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons, not later than Sunday 11 February 2018 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2018 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 27 Public Bill Committee7 FEBRUARY 2018 Parental Bereavement (Leave and 28 Pay) Bill The Committee consisted of the following Members: Chair: JAMES GRAY † Antoniazzi, Tonia (Gower) (Lab) † Masterton, Paul (East Renfrewshire) (Con) † Argar, Edward (Charnwood) (Con) † Newlands, Gavin (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) † Gibson, Patricia (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP) (SNP) † Griffiths, Andrew (Parliamentary Under-Secretary † Pidcock, Laura (North West Durham) (Lab) of State for Business, Energy and Industrial † Prentis, Victoria (Banbury) (Con) Strategy) † Quince, Will (Colchester) (Con) † Sandbach, Antoinette (Eddisbury) (Con) Harris, Carolyn (Swansea East) (Lab) † Soames, Sir Nicholas (Mid Sussex) (Con) † Hollinrake, Kevin (Thirsk and Malton) (Con) Yasin, Mohammad (Bedford) (Lab) † Johnson, Diana (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab) † Jones, Andrew (Harrogate and Knaresborough) Farrah Bhatti, Committee Clerk (Con) † Linden, David (Glasgow East) (SNP) † attended the Committee 29 Public Bill CommitteeHOUSE OF COMMONS Parental Bereavement (Leave and 30 Pay) Bill your loss and its life-changing nature, but it is important Public Bill Committee that you take your bereavement leave between these particular weeks, from this date to that, as set out in the Wednesday 7 February 2018 Bill.” I honestly think we can do better. It is not appropriate or desirable to set an early [JAMES GRAY in the Chair] timeframe as to when bereavement leave should be Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) taken. Some parents may feel the need of leave only some months later, when the enormity and the reality of Bill the loss have truly sunk in. Others may prefer a phased return to work instead of taking the leave in one set 2 pm block. The Chair: I welcome the Committee back to line-by-line Much of the discussion that I have seen on the Bill consideration of the Bill. Before anyone asks the question, seems to be predicated on the loss of a child after the two microphone recording devices are not spies or illness, and it is true that far too many children are lost anything else; they are in fact Hansard picking up voices in that way. Far too many families are devastated by from that end of the Committee Room, so they are watching a child ravaged by an unforgiving disease perfectly legitimate. against which the child has few or no resources to defend itself. There is no doubt that to watch a child go Schedule through that—to watch your own child go through PARENTAL BEREAVEMENT LEAVE AND PAY that—is beyond heartbreaking and beyond horrific, but we cannot forget that many children also die in a variety Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): I of other circumstances. beg to move amendment 10, in the schedule, page 2, The sudden and unexpected loss of a child is no less line 22, at end insert traumatic when the parent had no idea when they last “, including arrangements for taking the entitled leave at different saw their child that that would be the last time they saw points within the period specified in subsection (6).” their child alive. There may be a car accident or some This amendment would ensure that regulations on parental other horrific accident. A child is knocked down perhaps, bereavement leave provide flexibility on when the entitled leave can be and in a moment a family is destroyed by grief and the taken. random cruelty of events. The Chair: With this it will be convenient to discuss I therefore believe that flexibility is needed not just to the following: allow parents to grieve in their own way and in their Amendment 11, in the schedule, page 2, line 25, at own time, but because, depending on the circumstances, end insert— there might be a fatal accident inquiry following the “(5A) Provision under subsection (4)(a) must secure that an death or, in England, a coroner’s inquiry. There might employee’s entitlement to leave under this section will not be be a court case and perhaps even a trial. There might be required to be taken consecutively and may be taken in blocks of a significant gap between the loss of the child and the one day at a time.” burial. There is a host of reasons why leave for bereaved This amendment would allow flexibility in the parental bereavement parents must be flexible. It should be remembered that leave arrangements. not all bereaved parents will necessarily take any or all Amendment 3, in the schedule, page 2, line 27, leave of this leave, but they must have the option, and the out “56 days” and insert “52 weeks”. option must be flexible. I fear that if it is not, bereaved This amendment would extend the period of time within which parental parents who work for the minority of employers who bereavement leave must be taken from 56 days to 52 weeks. are not as sympathetic as we might wish them to be Amendment 20, in the schedule, page 2, line 27, leave might face losing their job as well as their child. Bereaved out “56 days” and insert “26 weeks”. parents need the full protection of the law. I urge the This amendment would extend the minimum period of time within Minister to consider the amendment carefully, as we try which parental bereavement leave must be taken from 56 days to to put on the statute book the best Bill possible for 26 weeks. parents. Patricia Gibson: I wish to speak in support of amendment 10, because it is important that there be Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): It is a flexibility on when parental bereavement leave is taken. pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once again, The loss of a child, if it is anything, is hugely traumatic. Mr Gray. I understand the hon. Lady’s argument on The first reaction is shock and disbelief, especially in making leave arrangements more flexible and I have the case of a sudden death. A parent may initially refuse much sympathywith it. Certainly,we heard such arguments to accept the loss and try to continue as normal, blocking from many different sources, including people who have out the experience, which is a common feature of trauma. been bereaved who contacted us through social media. Going on as far as possible as though the death is not Many charities, such as Cruse Bereavement Care, Elliot’s real will be a reaction that helps some parents to cope. footprint, Together for Short Lives and the National Keeping busy is a coping strategy that many use and Bereavement Alliance also made the point that the one that, to a great extent, my own husband used when period of 52 days was too short and they wanted longer. our baby was stillborn at full term. That was for a number of reasons, some of which the Other people cope with the devastation of losing a hon. Lady outlined, such as autopsies and inquests, child in a variety of ways. There is no right or wrong which can often happen well beyond those first 52 days. way to do so. I fear that if the amendment is not There are substantive reasons why we might want to accepted, we will in effect, even if we do not wish to, be look at a longer timescale. We need to strike a balance, saying to bereaved parents, “We recognise the trauma of of course, between the needs of the employee and the 31 Public Bill Committee7 FEBRUARY 2018 Parental Bereavement (Leave and 32 Pay) Bill understanding of the employer. We have said throughout for business and will therefore come as somewhat of a consideration of the Bill in Committee that we expect shock. We want this to be an absolute bare minimum these to be the minimum standards that employers that businesses provide, so it is therefore really important might follow. It would be sensible to consult further on that we take the business community with us and absolutely those measures. sell why this is such an important thing to do and why, as she rightly says, it will be beneficial to their businesses. Will Quince (Colchester) (Con): That is certainly That is why consulting is probably the right way forward. something I gave due consideration to when drafting the first incarnation of the Bill. I have huge sympathy Laura Pidcock: I know that all this comes, as we with the points that the hon. Member for North Ayrshire mentioned last week, from a place of anxiety of wanting and Arran made about flexibility. We have heard lots of to make sure the Bill passes with ease. I have to politely very good representations from charities and different disagree: I am not sure that this would be a massive organisations in the field, but we have not heard from shock to business. When I was a manager of a team, business. We have always said that we have to be fair to albeit within a charity, I still had to make sure that there business and to those who have suffered this tragic loss.