0:00:09.58 –> 0:00:10.748 Hello and welcome to 0:00:10.75 –> 0:00:11.656 Science et al. 0:00:11.656 –> 0:00:13.166 The podcast about everything science 0:00:13.166 –> 0:00:15.13 sponsored by the Yale School of Medicine. 0:00:15.13 –> 0:00:17.266 I’m your host Daniel Barron and in this 0:00:17.266 –> 0:00:19.217 episode I’m speaking with Carl Zimmer. 0:00:19.22 –> 0:00:20.9 Carl writes the matter column 0:00:20.9 –> 0:00:23.594 for the New York Times and is the 0:00:23.594 –> 0:00:25.49 author of 13 books about science. 0:00:25.49 –> 0:00:27.765 When we sat down to schedule our 0:00:27.765 –> 0:00:29.72 podcast recording, in fact it was 0:00:29.72 –> 0:00:31.67 hard to put our schedules together. 0:00:31.67 –> 0:00:33.295 ’cause Carl was touring the 0:00:33.295 –> 0:00:34.92 world for his recent book. 0:00:34.92 –> 0:00:36.54 She has her mother’s laugh, 0:00:36.54 –> 0:00:38.724 which won the 2019 National Academies 0:00:38.724 –> 0:00:40.526 Communication Award and the Guardian 0:00:40.526 –> 0:00:42.521 named it the Best science book of 0:00:42.521 –> 0:00:44.666 2018 and as of recording this intro, 0:00:44.67 –> 0:00:46.938 Carl is already finished his next book, 0:00:46.94 –> 0:00:47.562 Life’s Edge. 0:00:47.562 –> 0:00:50.52 The search for what it means to be alive, 0:00:50.52 –> 0:00:52.487 which will be published in March 2021 0:00:52.487 –> 0:00:54.739 and is now available to pre-order. 0:00:54.74 –> 0:00:55.871 Sounds like he. 0:00:55.871 –> 0:00:57.751 Used his quarantine time, well, 0:00:57.751 –> 0:00:59.977 at least better than I did. 0:00:59.98 –> 0:01:02.956 Karl is a frequent guest on Radio Lab, 0:01:02.96 –> 0:01:05.148 an adjunct professor at Yale University, 0:01:05.148 –> 0:01:06.958 where he often teaches classes 0:01:06.958 –> 0:01:08.162 on science communication, 1 0:01:08.162 –> 0:01:10.393 two of which I’ve had the 0:01:10.393 –> 0:01:11.506 privilege of attending. 0:01:11.51 –> 0:01:12.629 Carlist his knowledge, 0:01:12.629 –> 0:01:13.748 the only writer, 0:01:13.75 –> 0:01:15.976 after whom a species of tapeworm 0:01:15.976 –> 0:01:18.209 has been named, which is neat. 0:01:18.21 –> 0:01:19.693 On a personal note, 0:01:19.693 –> 0:01:22.234 I was excited to speak with Carl 0:01:22.234 –> 0:01:23.789 specifically about his history, 0:01:23.79 –> 0:01:26.11 and one of his books. 0:01:26.11 –> 0:01:28.228 Soul made Flesh was the first 0:01:28.228 –> 0:01:30.31 time I remember reading his work. 0:01:30.31 –> 0:01:32.734 It was when I was 23 years old 0:01:32.734 –> 0:01:35.261 and had a profound impact on the 0:01:35.261 –> 0:01:37.66 way I think about the world. 0:01:37.66 –> 0:01:38.312 In fact, 0:01:38.312 –> 0:01:40.594 I can still remember where I was 0:01:40.594 –> 0:01:42.457 sitting in my university’s medical 0:01:42.457 –> 0:01:44.653 library when I picked it up. 0:01:44.66 –> 0:01:47.052 I was struck by Karl’s ability to help 0:01:47.052 –> 0:01:49.537 me make sense of an extremely nuanced 0:01:49.537 –> 0:01:52.01 and complex history of how religion, 0:01:52.01 –> 0:01:52.36 theology, 0:01:52.36 –> 0:01:52.71 philosophy, 0:01:52.71 –> 0:01:54.81 and relatively nascent field of neuroscience. 0:01:54.81 –> 0:01:55.5 Kind of. 0:01:55.5 –> 0:01:57.915 Mesh together to sculpt the way we 0:01:57.915 –> 0:02:00.308 think about ourselves and society. 0:02:00.31 –> 0:02:02.834 I got so excited about the history 0:02:02.834 –> 0:02:05.018 of neuroscience that I wrote a 0:02:05.018 –> 0:02:07.447 couple of bad essays about it when 2 0:02:07.447 –> 0:02:09.798 I was a grad student and included 0:02:09.798 –> 0:02:12.108 a large section on the history 0:02:12.108 –> 0:02:13.968 of epilepsy and my dissertation. 0:02:13.968 –> 0:02:16.411 Which kind of made some of my 0:02:16.411 –> 0:02:18.308 dissertation advisors roll their eyes. 0:02:18.31 –> 0:02:19.03 Oh well, 0:02:19.03 –> 0:02:20.539 I was perhaps understandably 0:02:20.539 –> 0:02:23.113 nervous at the beginning of our 0:02:23.113 –> 0:02:24.75 conversation and remain grateful 0:02:24.75 –> 0:02:27.038 to Carl for bearing with me as I. 0:02:27.04 –> 0:02:28.984 Kind of settled into speaking with 0:02:28.984 –> 0:02:31.47 someone I so greatly respect and admire. 0:02:31.47 –> 0:02:32.838 So here we go. 0:02:32.838 –> 0:02:33.18 Carl 0:02:48.08 –> 0:02:50.238 Thank you very much for coming on, 0:02:50.24 –> 0:02:51.161 especially given this 0:02:51.161 –> 0:02:52.696 very busy season for you. 0:02:52.7 –> 0:02:54.17 As you’re gathering more awards 0:02:54.17 –> 0:02:56.4 by the day for your recent book, 0:02:56.4 –> 0:02:58.83 which is wonderful. 0:02:58.83 –> 0:03:01.427 I’m really excited to talk to you, 0:03:01.43 –> 0:03:03.42 not only because you’ve been 0:03:03.42 –> 0:03:05.809 thinking about science at a very 0:03:05.809 –> 0:03:08.105 high level for a very long time, 0:03:08.11 –> 0:03:10.444 but also because you are extremely 0:03:10.444 –> 0:03:13.529 articulate and have a wonderful ability to. 0:03:13.53 –> 0:03:15.756 Put in words or put in language 0:03:15.756 –> 0:03:17.816 things that a lot of people 0:03:17.816 –> 0:03:19.886 think but can’t quite do that. 0:03:19.89 –> 0:03:22.524 So one of the central themes that 0:03:22.524 –> 0:03:24.787 we’re interested in exploring is what 3 0:03:24.787 –> 0:03:27.456 is science and how do you approach 0:03:27.456 –> 0:03:30.07 it and what interests you about it? 0:03:30.07 –> 0:03:33.535 And so one of the things that. 0:03:33.54 –> 0:03:35.592 Kind of struck me was, you know, 0:03:35.592 –> 0:03:36.176 growing up. 0:03:36.176 –> 0:03:38.24 It seemed like you were in a 0:03:38.24 –> 0:03:39.756 household where people were very 0:03:39.756 –> 0:03:41.424 politically active and so I wanted 0:03:41.424 –> 0:03:43.21 to learn a little bit more. 0:03:43.21 –> 0:03:44.818 Go back to the beginning and 0:03:44.818 –> 0:03:46.754 then we’ll work our way back to 0:03:46.754 –> 0:03:48.362 the president about what it was 0:03:48.362 –> 0:03:50.365 like growing up and whether you 0:03:50.365 –> 0:03:51.705 were interested in science, 0:03:51.71 –> 0:03:52.002 communication, 0:03:52.002 –> 0:03:53.754 or science generally at that age. 0:03:55.33 –> 0:03:58.606 I was mainly obsessed with writing. 0:03:58.61 –> 0:04:04.21 I just wrote a lot sort of a 0:04:04.21 –> 0:04:08.098 graphomania kind of thing and I. 0:04:08.1 –> 0:04:11.215 I mainly grew up in New Jersey. 0:04:11.22 –> 0:04:16.67 We were on a little farm 25 acres and I had. 0:04:16.67 –> 0:04:19.61 Sheep and chickens in a wood lot, 0:04:19.61 –> 0:04:22.81 and so I certainly. 0:04:22.81 –> 0:04:26.41 I certainly had sort of the natural world a 0:04:26.41 –> 0:04:29.689 little more in my face than if I had been, 0:04:29.69 –> 0:04:31.94 you know, growing up in a 0:04:31.94 –> 0:04:34.029 suburban cul-de-sac or in a city.