EDUCATION, CULTURE AND SPORT COMMITTEE Tuesday 22 January 2002 (Afternoon) Session 1 £5.00 Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body 2002. Applications for reproduction should be made in writing to the Copyright Unit, Her Majesty’s Stationery Office, St Clements House, 2-16 Colegate, Norwich NR3 1BQ Fax 01603 723000, which is administering the copyright on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Produced and published in Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body by The Stationery Office Ltd. Her Majesty’s Stationery Office is independent of and separate from the company now trading as The Stationery Office Ltd, which is responsible for printing and publishing Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body publications. CONTENTS Tuesday 22 January 2002 Col. ITEM IN PRIVATE ............................................................................................................................................. 2981 EDUCATION (DISABILITY STRATEGIES AND PUPILS’ RECORDS) (SCOTLAND) BILL: STAGE 1 .............................. 2982 SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION ........................................................................................................................... 3018 Panels of Persons to Safeguard the Interests of Children (Scotland) Regulations 2001 (SSI 2001/476) ....................................................................................................................................... 3018 Curators ad Litem and Reporting Officers (Panels) (Scotland) Regulations 2001 (SSI 2001/477) .......... 3018 Children’s Hearings (Legal Representation) (Scotland) Rules 2001 (SSI 2001/478) ............................... 3018 NATIONAL PERFORMANCE INDICATORS ........................................................................................................... 3030 EDUCATION, CULTURE AND SPORT COMMITTEE 3rd Meeting 2002, Session 1 CONVENER *Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab) DEPUTY CONVENER *Mr Frank McAveety (Glasgow Shettleston) (Lab) COMMITTEE MEMBERS *Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) *Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD) *Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP) *Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) *Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP) *attended THE FOLLOWING ALSO ATTENDED: Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP) WITNESSES Maggi Allan (South Lanarkshire Council) Sam Baker (Scottish Executive Education Department) Heather Fiskin (Disability Rights Commission) Adam Gaines (Disability Rights Commission) Susan Grant (Children in Scotland) Kate Higgins (Capability Scotland) Sandra Kerley (Capability Scotland) Councillor Helen Law (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities) Boyd McAdam (Scottish Executive Education Department) Linda Sneddon (Office of the Solicitor to the Scottish Executive) Nicol Stephen (Deputy Minister for Education and Young People) Kay Tisdall (Children in Scotland) Neil Todd (Children in Scotland) Lynn Townsend (West Dunbartonshire Council) Martin Vallely (Children in Scotland) Lindsey Wright (Scottish Executive Education Department) CLERK TO THE COMMITTEE Martin Verity SENIOR ASSISTANT CLERK Susan Duffy ASSISTANT CLERK Ian Cowan LOCATION Committee Room 3 2981 22 JANUARY 2002 2982 Scottish Parliament Education (Disability Strategies Education, Culture and Sport and Pupils’ Records) Committee (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1 Tuesday 22 January 2002 The Convener: This afternoon we are taking stage 1 evidence on the general principles of the (Afternoon) Education (Disability Strategies and Pupils’ Records) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome Nicol Stephen, [THE CONVENER opened the meeting at 13:32] who is the Deputy Minister for Education and Young People, and officials from the Scottish Executive. Before we move to questions, minister, would you like to make any introductory remarks? Item in Private The Deputy Minister for Education and The Convener (Karen Gillon): Do members Young People (Nicol Stephen): Yes, thank you, agree that we should go into private session to convener. First, I will introduce my team of discuss agenda item 2? officials. Sam Baker is responsible for the overall co-ordination of the bill in the Executive. Sam Members indicated agreement. works in the special educational needs unit of the education department. She has a particular 13:32 interest in the detail of the disability strategies element of the bill. Lindsey Wright is responsible Meeting continued in private. for the access to the pupils’ records element of the bill. She works in the teachers and schools 14:36 division of the education department. Shirley Ferguson works in the office of the solicitor of the Meeting continued in public. Scottish Executive and has special responsibility The Convener: We are now back in public for the bill. session. Will members please ensure that all The two elements of the bill—the disability mobile telephones and pagers are switched off or strategies and the pupils’ records—are not related. are in silent mode? In my opening remarks, I will pay more attention to the first element. The second element, on pupils’ records, is intended to sort out what legal draftsmen like to call an “unintended effect” of a previous piece of legislation—the Data Protection Act 1998. That act removed a right from parents that no one, I think, wanted to be removed. It is estimated that around 800,000 adults in Scotland have a disability. Many become disabled during their adult life but many others will have had a disability since birth or since a young age. The bill will be important in helping to ensure that everyone in Scotland gets the best possible start in life and can go on to make a significant contribution to our society. Section 2 of the Standards in Scotland’s Schools etc Act 2000 requires education authorities “to secure that the education is directed to the development of the personality, talents and mental and physical abilities of the child … to their fullest potential.” The bill is needed to help education providers to deliver that requirement for children with disabilities. Although many examples of good practice exist throughout Scotland, in many areas a lot of work still has to be done. The inclusion of pupils with disabilities will not happen simply by moving children from special to 2983 22 JANUARY 2002 2984 mainstream schools. We will need plans to wants to take the opportunity to create the remove barriers to participation in schools and necessary powers to enable us to reinstate an nursery schools across Scotland to ensure that independent right for parents in Scotland to pupils can benefit from mainstream education. The access their children’s school records. Parents bill will support the new duties not to discriminate were given that independent right back in 1990, against pupils on the ground of a disability. Those but it was unintentionally removed when the Data duties will come into force across Great Britain in Protection Act 1998 extended data protection September this year; they will make it unlawful for legislation to manual as well as to electronic files. schools or education authorities to discriminate The bill intends to sort out that problem. against any child. The Disability Strategies and I will stop there. I am happy to answer Pupils’ Records (Scotland) Bill will complement questions. and support those duties. The Convener: Thank you, minister. Before we The bill will require responsible bodies to take move to questions, I welcome Gil Paterson, who is positive action, rather than simply not to here as a reporter on behalf of the Equal discriminate. That positive action must involve Opportunities Committee. You are very welcome, proactively planning for the future of all pupils with Gil, and I hope that you will be able to participate disabilities in all the education establishments for in our discussions. which the bodies are responsible. Mr Frank McAveety (Glasgow Shettleston) Accessibility strategies will consider accessibility (Lab): A number of submissions to the committee in the broadest sense—I especially want to have raised the issue of the format of information, emphasise that point. Physical access to buildings and we will take further evidence on that issue. At will, of course, be an important part of accessibility least two or three submissions have mentioned strategies, but access to the curriculum and to references to information being in writing only. Is information are equally important—some would there a willingness to reconsider the matter to see say more important. Being able to get around a whether we can find other accessible formats to building is not, on its own, enough. Children suit people’s needs? should be involved in lessons and should be able to learn in ways that are suitable for them. Nicol Stephen: The answer to that question is yes. It is important that the bill specifies that the Some people seem to view the bill, and information is to be provided in a written format. accessibility strategies, as being about physical That does not exclude making information disabilities only. That is not the case. The available in the other ways that we would expect strategies include all pupils with all kinds of from a bill that deals with individuals with disabilities. Education providers must plan for disabilities. The only issue is whether those other pupils with problems such as dyslexia or autistic ways should be defined in the bill or whether that spectrum disorder. With the right support, those can be achieved through regulation or guidance. children should be able to get