IN CONVERSATION INTERVIEW very much, but he asked me to come and part of dermatology. Dermatology is a see some leprosy patients. That was his fraction of the regular medicine and so hobby at weekends, he used to go to see you can imagine leprosy sort of gets one Gauhar Raza: Let me begin by asking the leprosy patients. In those days the paragraph in the textbook. you: Why did you choose science? leprosy patients were located all along the Indira Nath: I recall, when I was about river Yamuna, somewhere near Shahdara, Gauhar Raza: At that time a lot of ten, I wanted to do medicine. But when in Delhi, and it was like a colony of lepers. stigma, myths, superstitions were I came into medicine, I realized, pretty They were outcasts. He was part of a associated with leprosy across the world. early on, that even if I live to be hundred, social group. In that social group, there People were scared of even going close to and serve patients, how many people was a lady who used to come and pick me lepers and touching them and you started would I make a difference to? Whereas I up in a red Mercedes. She was the wife of working in a colony full of lepers. Were felt, if I did research that perhaps could the governor of the Reserve Bank of India. you not scared? make a bigger impact. We would go to the colony and did simple Indira Nath: No, I was not scared. That things like bandaging their ulcers, trying part didn’t affect me, the social aspect Gauhar Raza: What inspired you to take to get them magazines. There were a lot of affected me. Their personality changes up such a diffi cult research? south Indian people from my community when people become stigmatized. So that Indira Nath: Well, I was fascinated who were there. They left their villages part struck me more as a social problem. by leprosy at a fairly young age. I and came because of the stigma and so The medical problem of the ulcers not remember while doing medicine as the disease fi rst hit me in that manner. healing also worried me. But my mother an undergraduate, we had a tutor in You get taught very little about leprosy used to be very worried. I went to these Pharmacology. I didn’t like that subject in the medical course, because it is localities on weekends and when I Science Reporter, JUNE 2016 48 INCONVERSATION Professor INDIRA NATH (born 1938), a noted immunologist, is a world-renowned authority on leprosy. She established the Department of Biotechnology at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS), New Delhi. Her research focused on mechanisms underlying immune responsiveness in humans, reactions and nerve damage in leprosy and a search for markers for viability of the leprosy bacillus, which is not cultivable. Her work led to the creation of tools for diagnostics, immunotherapy and antigens for clinical investigations. Professor Nath obtained her MBBS and MD from AIIMS. In 1970, she went to UK with a Nuffi eld Fellowship, where she worked in the area of infectious diseases particularly leprosy with at the National Institute of Medical Research, London. After returning to India, Professor Nath joined AIIMS and later became the founder Head of the newly established Department of Biotechnology in 1986. She has received a number of awards including Shanti Swarup Bhatnagar Prize in Biological Sciences, Silver Banner, Tuscany, Italy, Om Prakash Bhasin Award for Bio-technology, Basanti Devi Amir Chand Award, ICMR, Clayton Memorial Lecture Award, Padma Shri of the Government of India, Chevelier Ordre National du Merite, Government of France, Cochrane Research Award, Government of UK, L’Oreal UNESCO Awards for Women in Science — Asia Pacifi c Region. She is a Fellow of the National Academy of Sciences, India, Allahabad, Indian Academy of Sciences, Bengaluru, Indian National Science Academy, New Delhi, National Academy of Medical Sciences (India), Royal College of Pathology, London, Academy of Sciences for the Developing World, Trieste, Italy. She was the Vice President of the National Academy of Sciences (India), Allahabad. Mr Gauhar Raza interviews Professor Indira Nath. returned home she wanted me to have a Gauhar Raza: So, there is no reason for Indira Nath: Yes, we think it’s dependent bath fi rst before I entered the house. the myths and superstitions associated on the way our immune system is built. with leprosy? If my immune system is very poor, I get Gauhar Raza: Don’t you feel people Indira Nath: Absolutely, and now with infected. For instance, it’s not HIV that would be naturally scared of diseases better treatment and long incubation kills, when the immune system goes that are highly infectious? period you don’t even know if someone down and you get other infections like TB, Indira Nath: Well, leprosy is not very had leprosy and got cured. There are two the patient dies. In leprosy, fortunately, infectious. In fact, cold and fl u are much or three things that are very interesting the bug is pretty mild, it doesn’t really kill more infectious than leprosy. The leprosy about the disease. One fascinating you. It is clever because if it kills the whole bug takes a long time to grow and it property is that the bug doesn’t grow set of cells then the bug cannot survive. If doesn’t enter very quickly and even conventionally in a test tube. The TB bug the bug kills the host then it is a stupid the incubation period, the period after grows and so does typhoid but we cannot bug. It survives within us and responds infection and before the disease appears, grow leprosy bacillus in a test tube. So, to the immune system. That’s why I think takes years. So, unless you had a cut on you can’t really investigate the pathogen. it is a model for studying immunology your hand and you happen to touch the Secondly, you and I, we are all exposed and the immune system and investigate ulcer of a patient with bugs, you don’t to leprosy. But we all don’t get infected. why certain diseases like this are caused. get leprosy. What is frightening for the Now, of the people who get infected, one The other thing about this disease is that people is the nerve damage that occurs will just get a little white patch on the it infects the nerves. There are very few and deformities. That’s what frightens skin and may become alright after some bugs that infect the nerves, and that’s why people. time and he would not even know why you get patients with these deformities, he got the white patch and why it’s gone. and because it affects the nerves, leprosy Gauhar Raza: Probably more people The second lot gets the patch which lasts continues to be a major challenge. We are killed because of diseases like fl u, a little longer, but this group also gets have got very good drugs for leprosy. especially when it spreads in western cured very easily. Then you have another Now you can cure a patient. But the nerve countries, than leprosy. group, which gets generalized disease. damage doesn’t come back; that is our Indira Nath: Absolutely, nobody dies These people have thickened eyebrows, current worry. of leprosy per se. Leprosy doesn’t kill. It they are full of bugs. If we make a slight is a clever bug. It just wants to survive slit in the skin the bugs pour out and they Gauhar Raza: You have made signifi cant peacefully in the body. While it is are infective. So, the interesting question contributions to other areas of science as surviving there, the immune system is is, the same bug is infecting all of us, but well. Would you like to talk about them? trying to kill it, and it is the immune our body reacts to it differently, why? Indira Nath: Yes, currently, I am involved system that is causing the damage and in the international arena on two issues. deformities. The bug is trying to survive One is misconduct in science. The Gauhar Raza: This is the scientifi c peacefully so probably we should look at academies of the world have been very question that you asked and probed it kindly! These leprosy patients are not worried about it and now we have the further? very infectious. Global Research Council that is worried 49 Science Reporter, JUNE 2016 INCONVERSATION cocompetentmpettent tot getgett thatthhat job!jjob! I nevernever feltfellt I ...you don’t even know if someone had leprosy and got cured. did science as a woman or as a man. One There are two or three things that are very interesting about the did science because of the questions one asked. But that doesn’t mean I have not disease....... seen others suffering. I have also seen, about it. I am co-chair for one of these involve, of course, social sciences. Physics even internationally, and certainly our global academies, where we were actually at the highest level is almost philosophy; I younger girls sometimes face problems. discussing how we could provide think these disciplines are going to merge, When they get married and have to give guidelines for young scientists. We feel defi nitely. Biology and engineering are up their career. Usually they marry men strongly that unless science is conducted already coming together. Biology is who are older than them and established in a proper manner, the faith of people merging into Chemistry.