CANADA VOLUME 135 S NUMBER 102 S 1st SESSION S 36th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Friday, May 8, 1998 Speaker: The Honourable Gilbert Parent CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) All parliamentary publications are available on the ``Parliamentary Internet Parlementaire'' at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 6703 HOUSE OF COMMONS Friday, May 8, 1998 The House met at 10 a.m. The Wal-Mart case in Windsor is an example of what would happen in federally regulated industries if Bill C-19 were to pass without _______________ amendment. Prayers To refresh the memory of hon. members, the Ontario Labour Relations Board ruled that Wal-Mart agreed to certify the union _______________ even though the employees at the Windsor store voted 151 to 43 against it. That was in May 1997. The board contended that Wal-Mart had pressured the employees to vote against the union GOVERNMENT ORDERS with threats that the store would close if it were unionized. Now the employees are fighting to get rid of their union and a decertifica- D (1005) tion drive is under way. Why should they have to go through that? [English] That brings up another problem with Bill C-19. There is no provision in the bill for secret ballots. If there were a provision for CANADA LABOUR CODE secret ballots, both in certification and in strike votes, then there would be no problem with questions of pressure being applied to The House resumed from May 7 consideration of Bill C-19, an workers because nobody would know how they voted. The people act to amend the Canada Labour Code (Part I) and the Corporations of Canada who send us here have a secret ballot when choosing and Labour Unions Returns Act and to make consequential amend- their representatives. ments to other acts, as reported (with amendment) from the committee; and of Motions Nos. 6, 7, 8 and 30. D (1010 ) Mr. Lee Morrison (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise to speak to the Group No. 2 In the meat and potatoes issue of who is going to represent them amendments to Bill C-19. First I will address one of the most at the bargaining table, we do not and will not extend the voting important amendments which has come forward on this bill. It is privilege by secret ballot to working people regarding whether or proposed in the interests of maintaining democracy and protecting not they want to certify union A, union B or none of the above. the rights of workers. Whatever happened to freedom of association in this country? This is an absurdity. The Canada Labour Code states that the board may order a representational vote on union certification to satisfy itself that the The bill has another related anti-democratic measure which was workers want a union. Our amendment calls for the board to, partially smoothed over in committee, but not to the extent that it is without exception, hold a representational vote when 35% of the yet acceptable to the Reform Party, and that is the requirement that employees sign cards indicating they want union certification. This employers must provide union organizers during a certification amendment would ensure that the wishes of the majority of drive not only with the names of their employees, which is workers in a workplace are upheld. certainly fair ball, but also with their phone numbers and addresses. Closely related to that amendment is our Motion No. 30 which If someone was bucking union certification in their workplace would do away with the intent of Bill C-19 to allow the CIRB to would they want their phone number or their address to be made certify a union even when there is no evidence of majority support public? if the board believes in its wisdom that there is sufficient support to justify certification. This turns democracy and labour relations We went through this sort of thing in this country about 50 years upside down. ago when the Liberal government of the day, in its wisdom, brought Hal Banks into Canada to break the seamen’s union and to set up a The determination of under what conditions this certification union more to the satisfaction of the Canadian government. would be allowed would be entirely in the hands of the CIRB. Bureaucrats rule. We have seen in the sovereign province of It got the names and addresses of the members. There were Ontario what happens when there is this type of labour legislation. seafarers who had their legs broken. There were even captains of 6704 COMMONS DEBATES May 8, 1998 Government Orders vessels, who were not directly involved because they did not have We have a strike coming up in the very near future with the air to belong to the union, but because they were suspect of having traffic controllers. They are ready to hit the bricks at NavCan. They taken the wrong side they were beaten up. The goons knew where and NavCan management are so far apart there is absolutely no everybody could be found. possibility of reaching an agreement without outside interference. As usual, both sides of the debate are sitting there waiting and I know we have come a long way in the last 40 or 50 years. There hoping the federal government will save their bacon by passing is not the extent of union goonism now that there was in those days back to work legislation when it happens; the old routine. They can and it is not protected, aided and abetted by our federal govern- snarl and growl and start the strike but the federal government will ment. Nevertheless, it still happens. come to the rescue. Anyone who has worked in forestry, anyone who has had If we had final offer selection arbitration this sort of thing could anything to do particularly with the ports of this country, knows not happen, would not happen. The parties could freely negotiate that people still have to watch their step if they do not want to get and at the end of the day it would be settled by arbitrators and life their nose smashed. That is the way it is. would go on without a lot of difficulty. We in this House should be realistic enough to appreciate that the Mr. Bill Gilmour (Nanaimo—Alberni, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I whole world does not live in the little gilded cage that we inhabit on begin by describing some of my background because I believe it Parliament Hill. Things get rough out there in the real world. helps. We should not be setting people up to be in a position where they In my life before coming to parliament I worked in the forest have to step up and say ‘‘Yes, we agree’’ in order to protect industry for 25 years, largely in labour-management situations, the themselves and their families. That is nuts. IWA being the major union, but there were other strong union areas. Port Alberni within my riding has been a strong union town It is a privacy issue. Even the privacy commissioner, our late, for many years. The people there have been well paid. The union lamented privacy commissioner who is no longer with us, said that has served them extremely well. I can recall approximately 15 this is a very clear invasion of privacy. It is anti-democratic. years ago when Port Alberni was in the top two and for about five years in the top five per capital income in Canada largely because Bill C-19 now has been partially ameliorated. It says that the of the unions. employer does not absolutely have to provide this information because the employee can take the initiative and go to the employer The unions have served people particularly well. However, this and say ‘‘Please don’t give them this information’’. legislation in my view tears some of that down. First and foremost, unions must represent their people. This bill would allow the This in itself sets him up because then, in the workplace, that certification of a union without that representative vote, without worker can be fingered. They can say ‘‘Hey, he did not want us to 50% of the people within the union saying they want to do this. If know where he lives. He did not want us to know his phone we go back to unions 50 or 60 years ago there were a lot of tactics number. Why?’’ It is a bit of a half-step, but it does not nearly go involved. far enough. I recall talking to some of the older people in Alberni when if Those are the big problems with certification without majority they were not on the right side of the union a rake could be dragged support. I do not know who on earth came up with that stroke of down the side of their car or their child could come home with a genius. bloody nose because of what dad did. Those were the old style tactics. I have carried a union card. I imagine there are other members of this House who have carried a union card. I swear to God if I had But this bill does not address the real issues. With the old bill, ever been confronted with a situation like that where a group of the old ways, people had to certify for a vote. The union cards had bureaucrats said ‘‘that union is going to represent you and you have to go forward, they had to sign and say they want to certify a union.