Zuhur Ahmed Narrator Ahmed Ismail Yusuf Interviewer November 18, 2013 Minneapolis, Minnesota Zuhur Ahmed -ZA Ahmed Ismail Yusuf -AY AY: This is Ahmed Ismail Yusuf recording for the Minnesota Historical Society Somali Oral History Project on November 18, 2013. Here is Zuhur Ahmed with me in Minneapolis, whom I am going to interview. Zuhur, thanks for agreeing to another interview, first of all. ZA: Thank you for having me. AY: So let us just start it. Can you spell your name, first? ZA: Z as in zebra, u-h-u-r. Last name Ahmed, A-h-m-e-d. AY: Where were you born, Zuhur? ZA: I was born in Burao [Burco]. AY: Can you spell that? ZA: B-u-r-c-o or B-u-r-a-o. AY: And Burao, is it in the United States somewhere? ZA: It’s in Somalia, north Somalia. AY: And what year were you born? ZA: I was born in 1985. AY: [laughs] In 1985. What month? You’re just speaking just like a typical Somali. So just exactly tell your birth date because the people who are listening are not only Somalis, by the way. ZA: Okay. I was born on a Saturday, as my mom tells me. April 4, 1985. 1 AY: So did you grow up in Somalia, then? ZA: I spent a pretty good chunk of my childhood years in Burao, Somalia, and then I spent a number of years in Syria, specifically Damascus. AY: But before we actually get all the way from Somalia to Syria, just tell me, what do you remember about Somalia and your childhood? ZA: To be honest with you, I think, personally, I remember things, but my mom disagrees with me. She thinks that I actually create memories out of stories that were told to me. AY: [chuckles] Yeah. ZA: But I am pretty sure that I do remember. I mean, when I left Somalia I was in single digit years, about five or six years old, and for instance, my younger brother who died in the heart of the civil war was born in 1991, and he also died in that same year. He was about six months. I really remember him very well. His smiles, his big eyes, light skin, his light-skinned face, his features. I remember holding him. I even do remember the day that he passed away and how he did. But, again, my mom disagrees with me and she thinks that I don’t remember. I remember when we fled. I think I do remember when we fled from Burao to the rural area and just kind of vague stories and random memories of the rural area locations within northern Somalia that we were at. As far as childhood, school, neighbors, friends—I don’t remember any of that stuff because, I think, by the time I was at the age of making these type of memories, the civil war had already happened. AY: So in your memory, when people talk about the civil war, particularly the civil war I think took place—or not “I think.” I know most of it took place in the northern part of Somalia about just exactly the years that you were born or right after. What is it that you remember, in particular? ZA: Well, I remember one particular—well, not a scenario. Actually, it’s an actual thing that happened. I remember that one time we were walking from Burao to nearby. I don’t know if they are cities or if they’re the countryside of the city. I just remember kind of the walks. I remember the little aqal [house, hut] Somali house that we lived in for a period of time—but not actual details and not actual memories. Maybe my mom is right that even these memories I have are all of the stories that I’ve heard growing up of the memories of the civil war. But I really don’t remember much. Not even details, but even like the general concept of the war. I can’t even imagine living it. I haven’t seen a dead person besides my little brother who died off of starvation and bad hygiene. He died because there wasn’t enough adequate nutritious food, milk that he can drink, and because the area that we lived in was so polluted, and I think he had a case of a very bad viral infection. So I do remember his death, but I don’t remember seeing actual dead people or gunshots. I don’t even remember hearing sounds of a gunshot. So that’s why I think maybe my mom is right that I don’t really remember much about the civil war. AY: But that’s surprising, to some extent. When you fled Burao to the rural—or were roaming around like nomads, to some extent—where did you shelter in later on? Where did you move to? 2 ZA: Okay, I think there were a number of places that my family were kind of moving around. Sibidhlay was one of them and Dhoqoshay was another one. AY: If you are just naming them, you have to spell them. Are those small villages? ZA: I’m directionally challenged, so I don’t know if they are in the southeast, west of Burao. I know they’re on kind of the countryside of the city—the rural, nomad area. AY: I think we should skip that for the benefit of the others who are listening. So we can just go through the major cities. ZA: Well, I think we mainly spent the majority of the time, as my mom tells me, in Sibidhlay. That’s where a lot of the refugee camps— AY: How do you spell that? ZA: It is S-i-b-i-d-l-a-y. AY: Okay. So from there, where did you go? What was the major city that… ZA: Again, like you mentioned at the beginning, the civil war started in the northern region in the late eighties, right? Right after I was born. AY: Actually, early eighties. ZA: Really, early eighties? We didn’t start leaving Burao, I think, until about 1987. AY: It just exploded in the late eighties. But, yes, it started about… ZA: So I think when we actually physically left Burao, as I was told, was in late ’87, early ’88, and then we were refugees there. Then my mom actually returned to Burao with the return of the SNM [Somali National Movement] troops. AY: SNM is the Somali National Movement. The rebel group that actually ousted Mohamed Siad Barre [Maxamed Siyaad Barre] from the north. ZA: Yep. So she returned when they took Burao and Hargeisa [Hargeysa] over. As she always told me—and sometimes blamed the cause of the death of my little brother—was that she came back in the midst of the war and the area was polluted. So we came back with the rebels when they entered and took over Burao, and I think we stayed in Burao for a little bit. No, I’m skipping. I think there was a period between that time and before we returned to Burao that we went to Hamar [Xamar, Mogadishu]. AY: Hamar is Mogadishu, right? The capital city of Somalia. 3 ZA: Right. We went there. And that’s before the civil war actually started there when at least it was more peaceful than the northern side. I also remember that incident where I was walking with my siblings. I think my older brother was taking my older siblings to school and he was holding all of our hands, like the kindergarten file line sort of style. I pulled off away from his hands, and ran across the street, and a taxi driver hit me. I was in a serious condition, I was told, and was later on taken to the hospital. I remember that vaguely as well. I don’t know if it was by the story that was told to me or if I really do remember that incident happening. But we did spend a few months in Mogadishu, and then I think my mom went back to Sibidhlay. Later on, before the war had started, we left Mogadishu, came back to the rural area, and then went back to Burao. AY: From Mogadishu, again back to Burao. ZA: No. From Mogadishu to Sibidhlay, and then Sibidhlay back to Burao, and then from Burao— AY: Which indicates that people were not only moving in one direction, but you were criss- crossing—back and forth, anyway. ZA: Yep. I think the main reason for my mom to go to Mogadishu was to actually leave the whole country. But I guess it was an unsuccessful attempt, so she had to come back to Sibidhlay until my uncles and my dad, who was at that time out of the country, straightened paperwork and figured a way for us to leave the country. And then after we went back to Burao, I think we made our way to Hargeisa. I think we stayed in Hargeisa for a little bit. I don’t remember the exact time, maybe a number of months. Then my uncle who lived in Saudi Arabia at that time and my dad were able to get us the paperwork to leave the country to go to Syria. I think the only way out was to go through Djibouti, so we ended up going to Djibouti and from Djibouti made our way to Syria.