Click here for Full Issue of Fidelio Volume 1, Number 4, Winter 1992 -_.. INTERVIEW -.---------------- 'Why God passed the baton to Lyndon LaRouche, the Martin Luther King baton, I don't know. But I'm of the same opinion as Amelia Robinson, that that movement to redeem this nation that was led by Dr. Martin Luther King, God has chosen Lyndon LaRouche to lead.' -Rev. James Bevel Schiller Institute Conference Sept. 5, 1992 received a letter from Leo Tolstoy. Ei­ ther the letter was written specifically to him or it was a generally written letter. What Tolstoy said in the letter was that the Indians should be ashamed of themselves, pretending that a handful of ordinary, not particu­ larly intelligent Englishmen could op­ press 400 million freedom-loving Indi­ ans. He said that's scandalous, and the Indians should be honest enough to admit that they were crafty, nasty, and Reverend James Bevel: lazy, and that if they had an ounce of dignity and freedom in them they would literally repel such a small, in­ 'One Man Maintaining Integrity' significant fo rce. So, Gandhi was probably the only The Reverend James Bevel was one of of Non-Violent Education in the Poor Indian who took him seriously. And Martin Luther King, Jr. 's closest associ­ People's Campaign. In 1984, he devel­ Gandhi started dealing with the ques­ ates in the Civil Rights movement. In oped and directed the Studentsfo r Educa ­ tion, In what way am I participating 1960, he was the cofounder of the Stu­ tion and Economic Development. In in my own oppression? So as he started dent No n-violent Coordinating Commit­ 1992, the Rev. Bevel ran fo r Vice Presi­ developing his movement, then people tee (SNCC) . In 1963, he organized the dent of the United States on the indepen­ would say, "Well, you won this strug­ Children's Marches in Birmingham, Ala­ dent ticket headed by Lyndon LaRouche. gle because the masses were involved." bama and laterin the same year initiated Th is interview was conducted by Mari­ And he said, "No, it is not the masses. the March on Washington. In 1965 he anna Wertz on August 26, 1992. The masses participated from time to was the director of Non -Violent Direct time. It's one man maintaining integ­ Action fo r the Southern Christian Lead­ Fidelio: You refer to Mahatma Gan­ rity." And the whole question of Satya­ ership Conference (SCLC) and co -au­ dhi's principle that a mass movement graha was the whole business of hold­ thor and director of the Selma Right to is based on one man standing alone fo r ing on to truth. Vo te Movement. In 1966, he developed the truth. Can you elaborate on what In other words, if there's a social and directed the Chicago Open Housing he meant by this and how it has fo und disorder and one person comprehends Movement. In 1967, he was the Director its place in your life and work? that social disorder, and no one else of the Mobilization to End the Wa r in Bevel: What happened was that when at that point comprehends it but that Vietnam. In 1968, he was the director Gandhi was a very young man, he person, then that person is compelled 66 © 1992 Schiller Institute, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission strictly prohibited. by the law of nature to live the truth true, but you don't know it. But once love. Once you don't maintain love, so consistently and persistently, that you're honest about the belief, even if fo r whatever reason, you are not prac­ that truth is manifested and finally it's defective, it will be revealed to you ticing the religion that Jesus Christ learned by someone else. And so the that it is defective. Once your methods practiced. Then he says that what hap­ whole idea is that one person stand are righteous, once your motives are pens to everybody else is they fa ll be­ up and do so non-violently; in time just and your motivation is love, you'll neath the love, then start trying to someone else will stand up. And then be able to bring about that justice. fa lsly interpret Jesus and claim that once another person stands up, then he didn't know what he was talking you get a chain reaction. Fidelio: I recall reading Mahatma about, because they don't want to prac­ What I discovered when I read that Gandhi on this subject, saying that the tice this principle of love. in 1959, was that I didn't really believe firsttime Satyagraha was actually prac­ He said, now there are other reli­ it. So one of the things that I decided ticed was by Jesus Christ, whom he gious leaders who make love one of the to do--I didn't know how to be popu­ called the first non-violent soldier fo r many principles, but in Jesus' teaching, lar, or how to win a handsome or the truth. I also read that Martin Lu­ love is the central core of the religion. beauty contest, or how to make fo lks ther King, J r. founded his movement, I find that to be true, just in terms of vote fo r me in terms of organization­ of which you are a principal leader, on my own life. but one of the things I said I could do, the combination of the thoughts and When I read that, I thought, that is was I could maintain integrity. That preaching of Jesus Christ and Ma­ true. When I am operating with less is, I do know when I'm being honest hatma Gandhi. Do you also take this than love, and I often do, I know I'm and dishonest. So it was like, okay, if as the basis of your philosophy? not doing what is right, I'm operating this is true, then I can test it and prove Bevel: Yes. I would like to add a per­ beneath the dignity of my responsibil­ whether it's true or not. son: Leo Tolstoy, who wrote The ity. So I knew he was telling the truth. So in Nashville, Tennessee, I tested Kingdom of God Is Within Yo u. That Then the question came up, what it and proved it. That if one person was the book that gave Gandhi the do I do to overcome the anger and the maintains integrity, that person will true interpretation of the Sermon on fe ar and the lust that is keeping me have the power to bring about change. the Mount. Because in that book, Tol­ from maintaining the state of love, so Although there may be a lot of actors stoy argues that you have to maintain that my thinking is always reasonable. and a lot of dynamics, it will take one person comprehending a problem, be­ ing truthful about it, doing the appro­ priate analysis and interpretation, op­ erating from truth which they either know or believe to be true. The reason I say know and believe is because, when you firststart working, there are a lot of beliefs that are not 'People would say to Gandhi, You won because the masses were involved. And he would say , No, it's not the masses; it's one man maintaining integrity. If one person comprehends a social disorder, and no one else at that point comprehends it but that person, then that person is compelled by the law of nature to live the truth so consistendy, that the truth is E ., I manifested and finally learned l; 8' by someone else.' �z a: W 67 Fidelio: What do you do? terioration and the decline were too But the people wouldn't stand up fo r Bevel: First you have to agree that great when I got there. what was right and refuse to accept that's true and that's right. Now if you So he asked me to come to Bir­ something less. And I said, now if you don't agree that it's true and right, mingham, and when I got there they guys stand up now-and we did it in then you can always findju stifications, couldn't get but eight or nine people Nashville, we did it in the theaters, we alibis, and rationalizations. But if you to demonstrate a day, and the little did it on the freedom rides-and if agree that it's right, it causes you to group was dueling and fo menting and you do it, you will have the opportu­ start examining your conduct and they couldn't get people to go to jail. nity to change history, because once statements that come from fe ar, and At that time I was running the Green­ you stand up and don't sit back down, your conduct and statements that wood, Mississippi group. So I came you write a new chapter in history, come from lust, and your conduct and over and my suggestion was that the because you're going to have to negoti­ statements that come from anger. And movement as they were running it was ate a new social contract. once you discuss them and expose a scam, because you are putting people So I said you've got to test it. And them to yourself and others, then it in jail and getting them out the same they said, "Suppose Dr. King sells us gives you the opportunity to look into evening and letting them demonstrate out?" I said, It has nothing to do with them.