House of Commons Home Affairs Committee Hillsborough Independent Panel Report Oral and written evidence 16 October 2012 South Yorkshire Police; Hillsborough Justice Campaign; Hillsborough Families Support Group Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed 16 October 2012 HC 622-i Published on 14 February 2013 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £6.00 The Home Affairs Committee The Home Affairs Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Home Office and its associated public bodies. Current membership Rt Hon Keith Vaz MP (Labour, Leicester East) (Chair) Nicola Blackwood MP (Conservative, Oxford West and Abingdon) James Clappison MP (Conservative, Hertsmere) Michael Ellis MP (Conservative, Northampton North) Lorraine Fullbrook MP (Conservative, South Ribble) Dr Julian Huppert MP (Liberal Democrat, Cambridge) Steve McCabe MP (Labour, Birmingham Selly Oak) Bridget Phillipson MP (Labour, Houghton and Sunderland South) Mark Reckless MP (Conservative, Rochester and Strood) Chris Ruane MP (Labour, Vale of Clwyd) Mr David Winnick MP (Labour, Walsall North) The following Members were also members of the Committee during the parliament. Rt Hon Alun Michael MP (Labour & Co-operative, Cardiff South and Penarth) Karl Turner MP (Labour, Kingston upon Hull East) Powers The Committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk. Publication The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the Internet at www.parliament.uk/homeaffairscom. Committee staff The current staff of the Committee are Tom Healey (Clerk), Richard Benwell (Second Clerk), Ruth Davis (Committee Specialist), Eleanor Scarnell (Inquiry Manager), Andrew Boyd (Senior Committee Assistant), Iwona Hankin (Committee Assistant), and Alex Paterson (Select Committee Media Officer). Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Home Affairs Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 3276; the Committee’s email address is [email protected]. List of witnesses Tuesday 16 October 2012 Page Chief Constable David Crompton and Detective Chief Inspector Philip Etheridge, South Yorkshire Police Ev 1 Sheila Coleman, Hillsborough Justice Campaign Ev10 Rt Hon Lord Falconer of Thoroton QC, Margaret Aspinall, Jenni Hicks and Trevor Hicks, Hillsborough Families Support Group Ev 11 List of written evidence Page Correspondence between Rt Hon Theresa May MP, Home Secretary, and the Chair of the Committee Ev 16 cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [SO] Processed: [12-02-2013 12:50] Job: 026262 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/026262/026262_o001_th_121016 HC 622-i Hillsborough FINAL.xml Home Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence Taken before the Home Affairs Committee on Tuesday 16 October 2012 Members present: Keith Vaz (Chair) Nicola Blackwood Bridget Phillipson Steve McCabe Mark Reckless Alun Michael Mr David Winnick ________________ Examination of Witnesses Witnesses: Chief Constable David Crompton, South Yorkshire Police, and Detective Chief Inspector Philip Etheridge, South Yorkshire Police, gave evidence. Q1 Chair: Can I call the Committee to order and Q3 Chair: We realise and we accept that you were welcome our witness today, the Chief Constable of not there during those times—you served in other South Yorkshire? Could I refer all those present to the police forces—but you were very clear when you Register of Members’ Interests where the interests of spoke to Newsnight on the day of the report. You said all members of the Committee are noted. Are there this, “My position is very simple and straightforward, any other interests that need to be declared? which is that if people have broken the law then they Alun Michael: I should declare as an interest that I will be prosecuted.” Do you stand by that statement? am intending to stand as a candidate for the Police Chief Constable Crompton: Absolutely, yes. In one and Crime Commissioner elections on 15 November sense it is not a revelation for any police officer to say in relation to South Wales. that if somebody has broken the law, they should be Chair: Thank you very much, Mr Michael. As this is prosecuted, and I absolutely stand by what I said. Mr Michael’s last meeting as a member of the Select Committee, on behalf of the Committee could I also Q4 Chair: Presumably you have looked at the report thank him very much for all the work that he has done in great detail and you have been following this whole on the Home Affairs Select Committee and the Justice issue from the time that you were appointed Chief Select Committee, and wish him well in his election? Constable. I know it was very recently, but clearly I move now to the subject matter of today’s inquiry. when you took over you knew that the Panel was This is not a new inquiry into Hillsborough; this is for meeting. Do you have any idea as to how many people the Committee to be updated on progress since the may be responsible and may have to be prosecuted? Independent Panel’s report. I am most grateful to you, Chief Constable Crompton: That is an impossible Chief Constable, for coming here today to give question to answer at this stage, Chairman. I am sure evidence. Would you like to put on the record your Committee members will be aware that this matter views of the Independent Panel’s report? When you was referred to the IPCC not just by me but by other first read it, what was your reaction? police forces as well. The IPCC made a lengthy press Chief Constable Crompton: My reaction, Chairman, statement on Friday where they made clear in quite was shock. I read that as the head of an organisation some detail the issues that they were going to look at. that had been held very much to blame over the years, That process has been set in motion. I am on the and also, once the Panel’s report came out, that was record on several occasions having said that I will co- all brought together in one comprehensive document. operate in any way at all I can to assist the IPCC I was shocked. It was a very difficult day. I made that with their endeavours, which will probably be lengthy very clear to the media on the day. It has remained a and complex. difficult experience since then, and it will continue to be a difficult experience for quite some time. Q5 Chair: That is the process that this Committee wishes to follow from now on. We would like to see Q2 Chair: What is morale like in the South regular updates as to what is happening with regard Yorkshire police force at the moment? to these matters. Do you accept the findings of the Chief Constable Crompton: People are feeling a little report that 164 statements have been altered by senior beleaguered. In fairness, the minority of the force officers in the South Yorkshire Police? Do you accept were even serving at the time of Hillsborough, and what the report said on that? not all of the people who are currently in the force Chief Constable Crompton: Yes. and who were around then were at Hillsborough in any way, shape or form. Inevitably when you get an Q6 Chair: You do. Is it right that there are now 195 organisation that becomes the focus of lots of negative serving officers in South Yorkshire who were on duty media attention then it is difficult for people. So, yes, on the ground on the day of the Hillsborough tragedy, people are going around with slightly heavy hearts, or is that figure too high or too low? We are just but these are serious issues. interested in the facts. cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [12-02-2013 12:50] Job: 026262 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/026262/026262_o001_th_121016 HC 622-i Hillsborough FINAL.xml Ev 2 Home Affairs Committee: Evidence 16 October 2012 Chief Constable David Crompton and Detective Chief Inspector Philip Etheridge Chief Constable Crompton: My understanding was to send to the IPCC those cases you have described that the figure was nearer 100 and that we currently as being people who may need to be prosecuted? Are have about 200 officers who are serving in the force you going through this person by person, file by file, who were in the force at that time, but not necessarily and who is doing this, bearing in mind the resources at Hillsborough. My understanding was that the figure that you have? You are talking about 1,000 police was lower than that. officers, either serving or former police officers, so how is that process being put together? Q7 Chair: Let us get the figures right; 100 currently Chief Constable Crompton: So far the IPCC have serving South Yorkshire police officers were at the only asked us for details of officers who are either ground on the day in question? currently serving, who were there, and of retired Chief Constable Crompton: Yes. I don’t know if it is officers, and those who may no longer be around exactly 100, but a figure around about that. Some of because they have died. In terms of trying to complete those officers were on duty right from the outset, other their records, we are in the process of supplying that officers—once things had gone wrong—were drafted information.