: REPORT OF THE FOUETH HEAEING HOOSAC TTJMEL CONSOLIDATION, BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON RAILWAYS. February 5, 1873 BOSTON WRIGHT & POTTER, STATE PRINTER No. 19 Province Street. 1873. — FOURTH HEARING. Mr. Daniel Robinson, vice-president of the Troy and Greenfield Railroad, was recalled, and made the following cpncluding statement : Mr. Robinson's Concluding Statement. Mr. Bates. —With reference to the business that there would be on the line of this road, have you anything further to state ? What do you think of its* prospects ? Mr. Robinson.—The committee, I presume, are as aware as I am, that any such statement as perhaps I was approaching when giving my testimony here, would be in a great measure conjectural ; and yet it forms the foundation for every enterprise that has its inception in the fact that, if a railroad is built, business will come to it. In creating this railroad we take into consideration what we are going to receive. This, of course, is what is of interest in the minds of those upon the line of the road. It has formed a part of the information that we have attempted to gain in giving us security in the investment of our capital. Of course, being at the west end of the line, my idea has been to see what we could secure to come to us. We leave it for our friends to show what would go to them. My relation as a railroad man for the last twenty years, has brought me into contact with the West and with the Western roads. In 1862-64 we formed a line of railroad from the West to Boston, and the business that the Western roads gave us by the New York Central perfectly blocked us, and we have often had 300 cars of the Rutland Company's road that could not be taken over the mountain. My relation with these gentlemen as an agent has been intimate, and my intercourse with them has been frequent, and I have no hes- itation in saying that, west of Buffalo and Niagara Falls, all would have just as great interest in the opening of this Tun- nel, and if you could get at the sentiment of the directors you would find them just as desirous that this road should be done, as we are ourselves. I don't know that I am familiar with any other argument that goes to show that we shall have business. They have said it at home, privately and pub- licly, and I think they can do it. It is a well-known fact, that there is not a road between here and the Hudson River that is able to do the business in so prompt a manner, and in the manner in which it ought to be done, between here and the West. Mr. Bates. —I don't know that it is necessary to state any evidence, as to what I suppose everybody knows, that the New York Central road is at this time putting down a double track to accommodate its business, making four tracks in all. Mr. Robinson.—Their idea is that they shall start a freight train, and allow it to pass right on to tide water without any delay in passing passenger trains. Mr. Bates. —This is to be done on the whole road from Albany to Buffalo ? Mr, Robinson.—Yes, sir. Mr. Bates. —How much will that increase the capacity? Mr. Robinson. —It will make it more than double—con- siderably more ; because the delays of freight for passenger trains is very great. Col. George. —It will increase it nearly fourfold. Mr. Robinson. —I do not want to submit the idea that the New York Central is the only road that we have ; we have two at the present, and we are to have a third in a very short time. There is one road already through, and there is another being built, and then we have the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern. Mr. Bates. —This is destined chiefly for freight? Mr. Robinson.—Entirely for freight. Mr. Bates. —Are you acquainted with the bridge that is built at Albany, for the accommodation of the other roads? Mr. Robinson. —I see its operations there continually. Mr. Bates.—Do you know who it is owned by? Mr. Robinson. —One-half by the New York Central, one- quarter by the Hudson River, and a quarter by the Western Railroad. But since the first two were consolidated that gives, them a three-quarters interest. Mr. Bates. —Upon that bridge do cars of the different rail- roads all pass ? Mr. Robinson.—They do. , Mr. Bates. Whether or not there are any inconvenience' attending their passage ? Mr. Robinson. —Yes, sir ; but it is slight to what it would be if it were in the middle of a road instead of at the end of it. In coming into Albany from the West there is no delay, but from the Hudson River we have to slow up and see if the way is clear, and sometimes there is a delay. The river is .about a thousand feet wide. There is frequently from twelve to twenty-five minutes' delay from the time we come within a three or four minutes' time, before we reach the station. This occurs once in a week or two weeks. There is often an occurrence of a delay of five or ten minutes. The time-tables give the difference between the arrivals of the Central Rail- road trains at Albany, as twenty-five minutes to get across the river and leave Greenbush. In regard to this Tunnel I think no man who was dependent upon two authorities would allow us to go through it upon anything like express time. Mr. Bates. —Whether in your opinion this bridge could be managed so that if it were run over by locomotives only these delays could be avoided ? Mr. Robinson. —Yes, sir, more or less ; but I do not assume to say that any portion, or any piece of road, under any mountain, can be operated so as to give facilities to more than one line. It is an utter impossibility to create a road of a nature that this Tunnel was destined to create, and put two authorities upon it. The Tunnel is iive miles long ; we have leased a road of the State six miles long. Will anybody say that these roads could be operated by two roads with safety ? But there seems to be an impression or idea conveyed, that this Tunnel is a mere passage or gateway. Now our bridge at Albany in, only one thousand feet long, and an engineer is in no danger is coming up—flags can be seen ; this cannot be A done at the Tunnel. So far as I regard it, with the experi- 6 ence I have had, it must come under one management, and the branches must be subservient to the main line. Mr. Bates. —Whether or not there have been accidents upon this bridge ? Mr. Robinson. —1 think there have been more accidents upon approaches to that bridge than upon the whole line south of it. Collisions are frequent. The Chairman.—What are the tolls ? Mr. Robinson.—Twenty-five cents a ton on freight, and ten cents a piece for passengers. It was originally fifty cents, but has now been reduced to twenty-five. The Chairman. —Do I understand you to say that the present facilities are sufficient to bring the Western trade to Albaoy ? Mr. Robinson.—No, sir. I said it would be an utter im- possibility for the present lines, with only these two tracks, to be run for passengers and freight both, to be operated by more than one management. I think it would take both the tunnel line and Mr. Chapin's line. The Chairman.—I mean for the Western freight to Albany ? Mr. Robinson. —If the increase is as great as it has been-, the time will be short. I mean that when these double tracks and other facilities are added, for a short time they will be able to do the business which presents itself. There are other roads in contemplation ; there is also the Erie road, as well as our Northern. Mr. Bates. —If in your opinion, when this Tunnel is built and if this consolidation is made, whether the advantages which would accrue through that, would be sufficient to cause a line of road represented by Mr. Comstock to be built with- out any state aid? Mr. Robinson. —Yes, sir ; I think there would be more than that road built throughout the State of New York. I think the large amount of business presented will be an encour- ment which will induce them to build more railroads than are built. I might state, however, that we have in the city of Troy the Union Railroad, which is owned by four corpora- tions,—the New York Central, the Western, the Hudson River, and the Rensselaer and Saratoga. They appointed a superintendent, and adopted other measures, but they were utterly unable to control it. Their engineers would run to- gether, and of course they came before the superintendent, and each would make his complaint, and it was difficult to settle the matter. We found it impossible to control their road in this maimer. The result has been that by the vote, wish and request of the Hudson River road, it has been put under the control of the Troy and Boston road, and I am running it now, and every man is under my charge, and the only way we can run it safely is to have by-laws as well as a superintendent, and if a man disobeys one order he comes entirely under the management of the Troy and Boston road, and is treated just as though he were one of our men.