Wednesday Volume 498 28 October 2009 No. 132 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday 28 October 2009 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 267 28 OCTOBER 2009 268 Mr. Francis Maude (Horsham) (Con): The Minister House of Commons says that there was some concern about national security, but Sir Ian Johnston’s report makes it absolutely clear Wednesday 28 October 2009 that these leaks were only matters of “embarrassment” that were The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock “not…likely to undermine government’s effectiveness.” So why did a Cabinet Office director write to counter- terrorism asserting that there was PRAYERS “considerable damage to national security” from these stories and that [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] “the potential for future damage is significant”? Did the Cabinet Secretary, the Prime Minister or Ministers BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS know about this letter before it was sent, and was there any political pressure on civil servants to shut down RAF NIMROD MR2 AIRCRAFT XV230 those embarrassing stories? Resolved, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, That Tessa Jowell: Neither report from Chief Inspector she will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid O’Connor nor from Sir Ian Johnston makes any claim before this House a Return of the Report, dated 28 October 2009, that the Cabinet Office exaggerated national security of the Independent Review into the broader issues surrounding claims; the right hon. Gentleman should be absolutely the loss of the RAF Nimrod MR2 Aircraft XV230 in Afghanistan clear about that. He will also know that there was no in 2006.—(Mr. Blizzard.) ministerial involvement in the decision to involve the police. Oral Answers to Questions Mr. Maude: But the report says explicitly that these were only matters of embarrassment that were not likely to undermine Government effectiveness. On 31 October, the Cabinet Office demanded a scoping DEFENCE exercise that then went into detail about the involvement of “members of the Conservative party”. Does the The Secretary of State was asked— Minister think it right that counter-terrorism officers were misled and used, in effect, to try to intimidate and Operation Miser suppress parliamentary opposition? Given that the Prime Minister himself made his political career as a conduit 1. Mr. Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): What for a flood of civil service leaks, should he have been assessment she has made of the findings of Sir Ian arrested when he was a shadow Minister? Johnston’s review of the investigation of leaks from the Home Department under Operation Miser which relate Tessa Jowell: Let me deal with the substantive point to the actions of her Department. [295973] that the right hon. Gentleman makes. I reiterate that neither report drew the conclusion that the Cabinet The Minister for the Cabinet Office and for the Olympics, Office had over-reacted. His judgment is made with the and Paymaster General (Tessa Jowell): I welcome Ian benefit of retrospection and of the two reports having Johnston’s report and the wider report published on the been carried out, as well as with the benefit of hindsight. same day by Chief Inspector Dennis O’Connor. We The important step now is that the recommendations of have looked very carefully at both reports, and my the report are implemented, as they will be. Department will shortly send new guidance on managing information to Departments and adopt the chief inspector’s Third Sector (Recession) protocol for future consideration of police involvement in leak investigations, which recognises the high threshold 2. Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): What her most recent required for police involvement. assessment is of the effect of the recession on the third sector; and if she will make a statement. [295975] Mr. Turner: The police inspectorate’s report has savaged the role of the Cabinet Office in calling the Metropolitan The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Angela E. police to arrest my hon. Friend the Member for Ashford Smith): We recognise that this is a very difficult time for (Damian Green). Will the Minister place the current the sector, with some parts experiencing increased demand guidelines and protocol in the Library so that we can for their services at the same time as having concerns review the failings of the existing rules? about their financial situation. That is why the Government have provided a comprehensive package of support for Tessa Jowell: Both reports reflect very fairly the state the third sector worth up to £42.5 million. The money is of events that led to the police involvement—a series of getting out there right now to groups who need it. leaks, some of which gave rise to concern about national Thousands of grants have been made, and that is supporting security. I would say to the hon. Gentleman that it is the communities that need it most and providing jobs. very easy, with the benefit of hindsight, to reach a different judgment. I have made it clear in my answer Clive Efford: I welcome my hon. Friend’s answer; that that the lessons of the O’Connor and Johnston reports will be very welcome news to the voluntary sector. will be applied in full, and I will certainly consult the However, many funders of not-for-profit voluntary Cabinet Secretary about the release of the information organisations do not recognise the need to cover their that the hon. Gentleman seeks. core funding in order to make them sustainable for the 269 Oral Answers28 OCTOBER 2009 Oral Answers 270 future. Those organisations want to create income that initiatives to get more people into work by increasing provides for that. I come across this problem frequently the work that they do, so as to benefit from the programmes in organisations that I work with in my constituency. that have recently been put in place? Will she encourage funders to bear this in mind in future? Angela E. Smith: The response to the Government programmes put in place during the recession has been Angela E. Smith: Absolutely. My hon. Friend has a remarkable. I am pleased to say that the anecdotal reputation in his constituency for his involvement in the response that we are getting, particularly on grass-roots third sector, and the points that he makes are entirely grants, is that the forms and application process are valid. Let me mention some of the things that the easier and simpler than they have ever been before. Government are doing; I hope that other funders will There is an increased number of volunteers, and we are consider them. Grass-root grants are going directly to supporting them through a variety of programmes. The smaller organisations—an initiative that has never been evidence is clear that people who volunteer often find a taken before, coupled with an endowment process—and route into work by gaining skills, confidence and that is providing £130 million. That can address the connections with employers. issue of core funding. We also have the community assets programme, providing £30 million across the Charities (Regulatory Burden) country for projects involving buildings that are sustainable for the long term. May I direct him also to 3. Mr. Ian Taylor (Esher and Walton) (Con): What Communitybuilders, a £70 million programme that was steps the Government are taking to reduce the recently opened for applications and has received 1,500 regulatory burden on charities. [295976] already? That is the kind of programme that the organisations he mentions will benefit from. The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Angela E. Smith): The changes that we have made to charity law Mr. Nick Hurd (Ruislip-Northwood) (Con): We should and to accounting and reporting thresholds have resulted be concerned that more than 10,000 charities have in savings of thousands of pounds for charities. ceased operating in the past six months, according to Departments are cutting red tape for third sector the Charity Commission. After two years of consultation, organisations, and further progress will be reported we are still no clearer about Government plans to make before the end of the year. The Government and the gift aid easier and more effective for charities. Instead, National Audit Office have produced guidance to reduce we are now getting signals from private meetings that red tape associated with the £12 billion a year that the the Treasury actually wants to scrap tax reliefs for sector gets from the Government. higher rate payers who give to charity. This must be the wrong time to be hiding things from the sector. When Mr. Taylor: Does the Minister understand that in my will the Government come clean on their plans for the constituency, charities are worried about the detailed reform of gift aid? applications for gift aid, which she has just discussed, the ending of the ring-fencing of Supporting People Angela E. Smith: The number of charities has reduced, and particularly the vagueness of the extension of Criminal but from talking to the Charity Commission we find Records Bureau checks, especially for volunteers dealing that that is about the cleaning up of the charities list. with children. The problem is not that the regulations There are charities that have been on the list for some are wrong, it is the application of them that is causing time but have not been functional, or there may have concern.