I I I I I Early Days of Zippel Bay State Park Area I Transcript of Oral Interview with I Carl Grovom at his home, south of the Projectpark I August 18, 1986 Interviewers: Society I Diane M. Morris, RegionalHistory Parks Office, Bemidji I Gladwin Lynne, Naturalist, Lake Bronson State Park Oral I Historical I Bay I I Zippel Minnesota I I I I I 0\-\ \"2- I I Zippel Bay Oral History Project I This interview is one of several conducted by the State Park Interpretive Program, Region I, Department of I Natural Resources. I The main purpose was to gather information about the early years of the Zippel Bay State Park area, specifically I about the Zippel Bay "townsite", the fishery located there and the life and times of early residents. Information I gathered will be used as background for brochures and/or informative signing for use at the ZippelProject "townsite" and I elsewhere within the park. Transcripts of these interviews will beSociety kept on file I at: Beltrami County Historical Society Lake-of-the-Woods CountyHistory Historical Society (Museum) ·~ortb CQutral MiuuQsota History CQutQ~ I Regional Parks Interpretive Office, DNR, Bemidji, MN Zippel Bay State Park I In addition, copiesOral of the original tape are on file at: Regional Parks InterpretiveHistorical Office, DNR, Bemidji t.ot~h Cehtrl!ll Mil'lfteeotl!l IIietery Geft"Ee!', Bemidji (NOTE: Lake of the Woods County was part of I BayBeltrami County until January I, 1923) I Thank you to Carl Grovom for his willingness to share what he remembers of these early years in the Zippel I BayZippel State Park area. Minnesota I Diane M. Morris, I Compiler I I I I I Early Days of Zippel Bay state Park Area Transcript of Oral Interview with I Carl Grovom I at his home, south of the park August 18, 1986 I Interviewers: Diane M. Morris, Regional Parks Office, Bemidji I Gladwin Lynne, Naturalist, Lake Bronson state Park I Diane: We're at the home of Carl GrovomProject today, I August 18, 1986, and we would like to talk with Carl a little bit about the old Zippel Bay town site.Society Now I I don't happen to know anything about the town site, Carl, History except that there was one there. I Carl: What you want to know is where the fishery was I and the first white Oralsettler and that? Gladwin: Fine. Historical I Carl: That'sBay where you're going to dig the channel too. I Diane: We've heard a little bit about that. I ZippelCarl: I don't want to brag, but if there's anybody who knowsMinnesota the whole works down there, I do. I can even I draw an illustration where the house and everything was along the beaches. I Diane: This is a map of the park, but it doesn't I get specific to the town site. I just thought I'd bring it along. I I I 2 I Carl: Yes. Well, the way the engineers are going to dig that new channel-- I don't approve of it. I was at I the channel meeting. They're digging where I suggested; I but, instead of corning parallel with the shore, where the old dike was, here they've got it corning straight out ... I This is a poor map of it (referring to front page aerial photo in recent Baudette newspaper). Here's where the I fishery was. And then over on the rock, here, was the I house. But anyway, between there and it was a little hollow there. But here, they've taken someProject of that island I off and then go straight out in the lake which I think would be foolish, because they'll save money.Society Now, if I they'd have taken more of that island over here and had History it parallel with the shore they'd corne right in the old I channel, where the old channel was. That way they I wouldn't have to makeOral two jetties. Diane: Now you said thisHistorical is where the fishery was? I And this is whereBay the town site was? Or, what did you call that? Let's mark it on this map (referring to state I park map). The fishery was over here? I ZippelCarl: Let me see now, when was this made? Diane:Minnesota Well, I'm not really sure how old this map I is, Carl. Gladwin: Look on the back and see if it's got a I date. It's fairly recent, I would say it's in the '70s. I Carl: This is all land here. Clear over here and then there's just a tiny little pocket. Well, in the I I I 3 I early days, the man, Zippel, had 20 men working for him, ten in the woods and ten in the fishery. In order to get I in where the fishery was, they had to load everything by I hand. He had his hired men start with the shovel one night to see ... because the bay was 3 feet higher than the I lake. When they got it started, the next morning they couldn't put a 16-foot-long pike pole in and hit bottom. I Well then, that was the channel. Right shortly after, is I when the government made the dike. So the government never dug the channel; that was natural dug.Project I Diane: So the channel at that point ran right about through here? Society I Carl: Yes. History Diane: You can draw on this map, that's no problem, I if you want to. I Carl: (Drawing mapOral on plain piece of paper). Here's where the fishery and the fishHistorical house was. Over here were I some cabins forBay the hired men and right over here was the house. I got the picture of the house, too. I Diane: Oh, do you? I ZippelCarl: But I don't know if I can find it. Diane:Minnesota Oh, we would love to see it. I Carl: Over here was the barn. And then they had a corduroy, from the woods in. Logs and then wood on top ... I (it) came in. There's where the old channel was, right I there. Here was the big rock, right here. Here's the shore. And from the rock (marked with an X) over to the I I I 4 I old channel (was) about as far from the lake as this house. And the jetty went far enough east so when you get I the northwest wind, which is more or less (the case), you I wouldn't have any fill in. But then that wore out and wore out and wore out so, by ice pushing you know, and boy I it can sure push, that ice. Then, later on, it washed through the bar, and that was always filling up ... (Carl I got a picture to show us). That's a neighbor boy. Here's I the lake over here and here's the house and right there is about where the rock is. This was taken Projectin the I wintertime. That was the house. Diane: Is the barn kind of behind him Societyor is it I further off? History Carl: The barn, you see that kind of a hollow I there? That's the corduroy going out and right along side I that behind the houseOral that was the barn. Yeah, that was a big house, too. Historical I Diane: ItBay looks kind of big. And that's a post card. Carl: It's a post card, years ago ... old time ... I Diane: Do you think that it would be possible for us I toZippel get a copy of this? Could we borrow it for a while? Carl:Minnesota Sure, you can. As a matter of fact, you can I have it because it doesn't mean too much to me. Diane: We'd be happy to just make a copy and return I it. So, was there ever more than just a house and a barn I there, as time went on or ... ? I I ... I 5 I Carl: Oh yes, right out from that rock is where they had the twine house. Where they took the twine in and I washed it and retarred it. That was just about where the I cross is here. And they'd use it for dances, too, you know. Oh, they'd come from far and wide. I Diane: How big was that? Carl: I'd say it must've been about 35 by 40 (feet), I something like that. The house, that had three rooms I downstairs, four upstairs and a sort of a little living room and a big kitchen and then they had Projecta drop down. You I could see the drop down there, with a shanty roof. About that far down was the rock (the slab) it wasSociety built right I on, practically on a rock, you know. History Diane: About 2-3 feet down? I Carl: Yes. Boy, the wood that they got, holy I smokes. 13-14 tiers, Oralas long as this house there, for cooking. She cooked for thoseHistorical 20 men. And, when they took I logs across theBay lake, in booms, up to the Spooner Mill, a lot of times a storm would come up and they'd bust them. I So here they'd come in hungry and she'd feed them. Could I sheZippel cook! She could make a meal for a half a dozen, in just, justMinnesota a few minutes.